From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 17:12:54 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:12:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] happy halloween
Message-ID: <494219.38576.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

happy halloween!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 17:33:56 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] happy halloween
Message-ID: <468443.93389.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

happy halloween!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Nov  1 18:46:15 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 18:46:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711012346.lA1NkF731467@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: GDM1962b 19inch Sun CRT

Old heavy bulletproof 19" Sun-Xerox-Sony monitor.  13w3 connector.  Could be made to work with a PC with the right cable <not included> KNOWN good/tested.
Free to first taker.

Seller Email address: tletofsky at umwcs dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From joey.rockhold at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 20:04:08 2007
From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:04:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like everyone is giving good advice.  I use a Palm z22 with Ubuntu,
and when you get it configured correctly, it does work well.  This is not a
smartphone, just a regular PDA, but I did want to mention that it took lots
of research with google and ubuntu forums to get linux to see it.  It all
boiled down to one setting that was a little unique.  So if after you get
your new phone, you have troubles getting Ubuntu to detect it, let me know
and I'll type up the directions on what I did to connect it.

Otherwise... Linux works great with Palm.  I recommend JPilot over the
built-in Gnome software, but that is more personal preference on how I like
to use it.  And JPilot offers backup and restore capabilities, sotware
installation, etc. all in the same app.

Good luck!

On Oct 31, 2007 7:15 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a Sprint
> customer, and want to stay with Sprint because of the excellent reception I
> receive.  Thus far, I've narrowed my options to the Palm Centro and the Palm
> 755p, but I have a few questions before making my decision final.
>
> 1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software
> available on Linux for syncing with the Palm?  I'm currently running Ubuntu
> 7.10.
> 2.  Can someone who's used either phone share some pros and cons?
> 3.  The primary use of the phone is for contacts, scheduling, and as a
> phone.  However, I will use the internet frequently between appointments.
> One feature neither device has is wifi, but I'm not sure if wifi is
> necessary with Sprints EVDO.  Is there another phone I should consider?
> 4.  Being a Linux buff, I'd like nothing more than to have a smart phone
> that runs Linux.  Does anyone know of a smart phone that runs Linux and will
> work on the Sprint network?
>
> Thanks for your help and advice.
>
> Troy
>
> --
> Website of the week:
> http://www.treehugger.com
>
> The Free Alternative to M$ Office:
> http://www.openoffice.org
>
> My Blog:
> http://troythetechguy.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071102/447f6b3b/attachment.htm 

From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 20:15:42 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:15:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
	<101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020711021815t47914dcn31972219dbda094@mail.gmail.com>

Now that you mention it, I remember JPilot. I second that recommendation.

Figuring out the quirks to get your Palm detected is usually the worst
part. I always felt that syncing in using OSS software on Linux was
better than syncing with Palm's software on Windows.

These days I've mostly written off smart phones as a dumb idea (still
have and use two of them), but that's a rant for another day and
another place. ;-)

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From sraun at fireopal.org  Sat Nov  3 15:14:41 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 15:14:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] find question
Message-ID: <20071103201441.GA29219@fireopal.org>

I know that wonderful things can be done with find - I want to know if
this command line does what I want:

find . - name [filename] -execdir cp [path to master][filename] .;

I have a directory tree with with a LOT of a couple of specific files
in various sub-directories.  Unfortunately, there's a more recent
version of these couple of files - I want to replace all of the of the
existing instances with the current version.  I can make certain I
have a current version in an arbitrary location (AKA [path to
master]).  So, would this command line accomplish the above?  Yes, a
symlink to the master from all the directories might be better - but I
copy individual sub-directories out to other media - I feel safer
having the actual file there.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From strayf at freeshell.org  Sat Nov  3 15:46:26 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:46:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] find question
In-Reply-To: <20071103201441.GA29219@fireopal.org>
References: <20071103201441.GA29219@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <472CDE22.5030609@freeshell.org>

Scott Raun wrote:
> I know that wonderful things can be done with find - I want to know if
> this command line does what I want:
> 
> find . - name [filename] -execdir cp [path to master][filename] .;

Seems to work for me:

find . -name test.txt -execdir cp /home/steve/test.txt {} \;

Test it first with:

find . -name test.txt -execdir echo cp /home/steve/test.txt {} \;

-Steve



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 02:12:42 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
Message-ID: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
  Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
   

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071104/e59707e6/attachment.htm 

From erikerik at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 07:50:27 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 08:50:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711040550v2b749366yb6bafb28b7766d5@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know
> how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one
> monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards

So you want to run this server headless, correct?  What happens when
you start it up without a monitor?  Usually systems could care less if
they have a monitor connected.  In fact, I don't believe I've *ever*
seen a system not come up correctly due to a missing/broken monitor.
Missing keyboard?  Sure - some non-server class BIOSes check for a
keyboard during POST and if absent, will refuse to continue the boot
process.  This can usually be disable, though.  I'm just grasping at
straws, though.

In order to correctly diagnose your problem, we'll need more info.
What's your desired task for this server?  What happens when the
monitor is not connected?

-Erik


From jeruvin at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 08:50:51 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:50:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <490133.61156.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>

You'll want to setup openssh-server for remote console. Make sure your
server has a static ip so you always know what ip address to connect to.
There are a number of guides on the web that show how to set this up using
the command prompt.

I have some instructions on my website that should work for 7.10 (I tested
them in 7.04). It's mostly my own notes but is pretty complete.

jason

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know
> how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one
> monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071104/8f679c6a/attachment.htm 

From canito at dalan.us  Sun Nov  4 10:10:56 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (David Alanis)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:10:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Wanted 2.5" HDD
Message-ID: <20071104101056.2vnnefd8e8o8k00g@mail.dalan.us>

Good Sunday:

Looking for a used 20G minimum 2.5" HDD for an old Toshiba Laptop.

Prefer close to the Bloomington area.

Thank you,
David A.

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 12:37:30 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 10:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip address)
I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.
jason reynolds <jeruvin at gmail.com> wrote:
  You'll want to setup openssh-server for remote console. Make sure your server has a static ip so you always know what ip address to connect to. There are a number of guides on the web that show how to set this up using the command prompt. 

I have some instructions on my website that should work for 7.10 (I tested them in 7.04). It's mostly my own notes but is pretty complete.

jason

  On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:    I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this? 
  Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
   
  __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071104/a38812d5/attachment.htm 

From jeruvin at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 12:47:26 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 13:47:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
	<867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0711041047q5aac6bcfta428cb280325076f@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.aperfectshadow.com/wiki/doku.php?id=ubuntu_server is my site with
some information on how i setup my server. It's for 7.04, but should work
with 7.10

ifconfig will tell you what ip address you have.

jason

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
> address)
> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.
> *jason reynolds <jeruvin at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> You'll want to setup openssh-server for remote console. Make sure your
> server has a static ip so you always know what ip address to connect to.
> There are a number of guides on the web that show how to set this up using
> the command prompt.
>
> I have some instructions on my website that should work for 7.10 (I tested
> them in 7.04). It's mostly my own notes but is pretty complete.
>
> jason
>
> On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't
> > know how to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have
> > one monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> > Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071104/b62197ef/attachment.htm 

From chewie at wookimus.net  Mon Nov  5 08:58:52 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:58:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020711021815t47914dcn31972219dbda094@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
	<101e49ea0711021804i8187c36y72227a930fc62acf@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020711021815t47914dcn31972219dbda094@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12262.1194274732@skuld.wookimus.net>

Andy is absolutely right about Palm Desktop (PD) being crapola.  JPilot
worked SO much better.  PD tries to be smart about things, but
ultimately fails when you have multiple vendors trying to be
"authoritative" over the data being synced.  At UofMN, OIT had purchased
and supported an Oracle product (which ironically wasn't built on Oracle
technology at all), which had its own synchronization plugin.  That
plugin interacted badly if you wanted to sync the data to both that app
and the Palm Desktop app, which was needed for migration from one to the
other, or for those instances where people preferred their PD software
for most everything else, but the Oracle software for calendaring.

All in all, JPilot works awesome.  If I had a Palm PDA, I would be using
it today.  As it stands, I'll keep my index cards around. ;-)

Chad


From auditodd at comcast.net  Mon Nov  5 09:31:35 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:31:35 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
Message-ID: <110520071531.29878.472F37570003CCD7000074B622007511500B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

I would have to agree with others.
It's not the video that is the problem, but most likely a keyboard.

Hook up video only and watch the POST error.
I'll bet it complains about a keyboard.

Some BIOS will allow to set "halt on no error" or something similar so that it doesn't care if it doesn't find a keyboard.
Some BIOS don't have that option.
I have two Compaq desktops that I use for firewalls.
There is no option in the BIOS to continue after errors and it must have a keyboard attached.
So I tore apart a keyboard and took the PC board, wrapped it in electrical tape and stuck it inside the case and ran the cable out and plugged it into the keyboard socket. Works fine.

On the other hand, I have some HP desktops that complain about not having a keyboard, but they continue to boot which is nice. It just adds a few seconds to the boot process.

--
==========
Todd Young

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com>
> I just set up a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how 
> to make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one monitor 
> and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
>   Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards
>    

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com>
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 08:18:53 +0000
Size: 2038
Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071105/444a94aa/attachment.eml 

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 09:41:09 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:41:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
	<867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711050741r945e1efv20256049b7273266@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
> address)
> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.

Anna - it sounds like all you need to do is get this server switched
over to a static IP address, correct?  If so, it's *really* simple in
ubuntu (and most other linux distros as well).  Just follow this
guide:

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/change-ubuntu-server-from-dhcp-to-a-static-ip-address/


From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 09:58:12 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:58:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <6eb23c4e0711040650v1f1436d6rd1bba7b28458120d@mail.gmail.com>
	<867297.74644.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020711050758p6e67e211l8e96413752785b91@mail.gmail.com>

> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
> address)
> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.

Is it getting a public IP address, or is it behind a NAT router on a
private subnet (10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255, 172.16.0.0 -
172.31.255.255, 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255). If it's got a public
address, http://www.dyndns.com/ is an easy solution. There is a Linux
client for dyndns (ddclient) that will update the IP address for you
so you can connect to hostname.dyndns.org (or whatever domain you
pick.)

If you're on a private network you'll want to check with your network
administrator to see if you can get a static IP address assigned to
you, or if you can get a DHCP reservation for your computer.

Or if you don't want to talk to your network people and your DHCP
server is integrated with DNS (if you're in an Active Directory
environment, assume that it is.) all you have to do is configure your
Ubuntu computer to send it's hostname with the DHCP request and you
will be able to simply go to hostname (ssh user at hostname,
http://hostname, etc.)

On Ubuntu, you have to edit /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf. Add a line to the file:
send host-name "yourhostnamehere";
Save the file, then ifdown eth0; ifup eth0 (assuming eth0 is your NIC).

Ubuntu has a nice GUI tool for configuring your network interfaces,
but if you're going console only that's fine too. Edit
/etc/network/interfaces. Use man interfaces for viewing the
documentation for the interfaces file.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Mon Nov  5 12:05:21 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 13:05:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  Wed, Nov 7, 6:30 - 8:00pm
Message-ID: <200711051205.21920.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is coming soon!

This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of 
Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.  

Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy will 
report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an 
explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a roadmap 
for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy demos.

Jeremy White is the founder and CEO of CodeWeavers. CodeWeavers hs been 
working for the past 7 years to make the Wine project capable of running 
Windows software on Linux - all without needing Windows itself. Jeremy is 
also a member of the Desktop Architects working group of the Linux 
Foundation, and has long been a passionate advocate for the growth of the 
Linux Desktop. He lives in St. Paul with his wife and 2 children.

NOTE: ?there is a room change. ?

?Date: Wed, Nov 7th
?Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
?University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-115
?200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
 
 http://www.tclug.org



From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Mon Nov  5 12:16:28 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:16:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1194285606.16034.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1194285606.16034.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <2781.192.28.2.17.1194286588.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

>   On 11/4/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:    I just set up
> a ubuntu 7.10 server (to do the wrong task) and i don't know how to
> make it work without me having a screen on it 24-7 (i only have one
> monitor and 2 computers needing one).  Can someone help me fix this?
> Linux User in distress: Anna Edwards

In addition to the BIOS settings mentioned, and setting a static IP
(either public or private), many (most?) KVM switches will send signals to
machines to bluff them into thinking there is a keyboard and mouse present
at all times.

Or you could look for something like a dummy keyboard plug... like this:
http://www.dummykeyboard.co.uk/dummykeyboardplug.html




From jima at beer.tclug.org  Mon Nov  5 12:32:53 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:32:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <110520071531.29878.472F37570003CCD7000074B622007511500B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>
References: <110520071531.29878.472F37570003CCD7000074B622007511500B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711051228550.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007, auditodd at comcast.net wrote:
> Some BIOS will allow to set "halt on no error" or something similar so 
> that it doesn't care if it doesn't find a keyboard.
> Some BIOS don't have that option.
> I have two Compaq desktops that I use for firewalls.
> There is no option in the BIOS to continue after errors and it must have 
> a keyboard attached.
> So I tore apart a keyboard and took the PC board, wrapped it in 
> electrical tape and stuck it inside the case and ran the cable out and 
> plugged it into the keyboard socket. Works fine.

  I'm guessing you're unaware that Compaq has a DOS executable called 
NO_F1.COM that, once run, makes the machine not dependent on having a 
keyboard attached?  Toss it on a bootable DOS floppy (FreeDOS?), boot the 
machine, run NO_F1, reboot.  Should be good.  (It's worked on every Compaq 
I've tried it on, anyway, including a Proliant 5000R.)

      Jima


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  6 15:39:35 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 13:39:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Server Issues
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020711050758p6e67e211l8e96413752785b91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <686300.40335.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Andrew Zbikowski wrote: 
>> Problome is, i want to know how to find out it's ip-address (i don't know
>> how to set up a static ip-address and the computers stick to there own ip
>> address)
>> I need it to do 2 tasks, storage and lamp.
> Is it getting a public IP address, or is it behind a NAT router on a
> private subnet (10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255, 172.16.0.0 -
> 172.31.255.255, 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255). If it's got a public
> address, http://www.dyndns.com/ is an easy solution. There is a Linux
> client for dyndns (ddclient) that will update the IP address for you
> so you can connect to hostname.dyndns.org (or whatever domain you
> pick.)
> If you're on a private network you'll want to check with your network
> administrator to see if you can get a static IP address assigned to
> you, or if you can get a DHCP reservation for your computer.
> Or if you don't want to talk to your network people and your DHCP
> server is integrated with DNS (if you're in an Active Directory
> environment, assume that it is.) all you have to do is configure your
> Ubuntu computer to send it's hostname with the DHCP request and you
> will be able to simply go to hostname (ssh user at hostname,
> http://hostname, etc.)
> On Ubuntu, you have to edit /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf. Add a line to the file:
> send host-name "yourhostnamehere";
> Save the file, then ifdown eth0; ifup eth0 (assuming eth0 is your NIC).
> Ubuntu has a nice GUI tool for configuring your network interfaces,
> but if you're going console only that's fine too. Edit
> /etc/network/interfaces. Use man interfaces for viewing the
> documentation for the interfaces file.
> -- 
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
> 0 rows returned
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  7 07:19:46 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 05:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] using linux to move mods to my moto
Message-ID: <876891.94522.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hi. i have a moto razr v3r, and want to take a mod someone made to my phone.  i have all the junk to do it. the question is how. anna

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Nov  7 10:24:12 2007
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:24:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] using linux to move mods to my moto
In-Reply-To: <876891.94522.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <876891.94522.qm@web33710.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711071023410.29980@Rooster>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Anna Edwards wrote:

> hi. i have a moto razr v3r, and want to take a mod someone made to my phone.  i have all the junk to do it. the question is how. anna

http://www.modmymoto.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

Might help.

-Yaron

--


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Nov  7 12:14:19 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:14:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711071814.lA7IEJa06567@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell PowerEdge 1300 Server

Dell PowerEdge 1300 Server For Sale.

Specs - 

* 2x 700mhz Intel Pentium 3 cpu's                 
* 1gb pc-100 ECC Memory
* Promise SX4060 PATA Raid Card with 256mb pc133 non-ecc attached (Maxed out)
* Either 2x100gb drives or 3x 40gb drives
* Dell Provided Intel Pro/100 network card (10/100mb)
* Sony CD-Rw, and a Toshiba Dvd player.

**Notice, Either Hard-drive configuration doesn't come with an Operating System, nor licence keys.**

Also, Hard-drives will be wiped to 7Pass D.O.D Specifications.

Asking Price $120.00 Obo



Seller Email address: blacknight_709 at hotmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 13:44:37 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:44:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711051205.21920.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <200711051205.21920.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200711071344.37479.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!

This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.

Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy
will report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an
explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy demos.

Jeremy White is the founder and CEO of CodeWeavers. CodeWeavers hs been
working for the past 7 years to make the Wine project capable of running
Windows software on Linux - all without needing Windows itself. Jeremy is
also a member of the Desktop Architects working group of the Linux
Foundation, and has long been a passionate advocate for the growth of the
Linux Desktop. He lives in St. Paul with his wife and 2 children.

NOTE:  there is a room change.  

 Date: Wed, Nov 7th
 Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
 University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-115
 200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455

 http://www.tclug.org



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  7 16:07:18 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] internet speed testing program
Message-ID: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i need a program that pings several servers (decided by a main server) and records ping times to send to the home server. can someone help me with it?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 16:14:34 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:14:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] internet speed testing program
In-Reply-To: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200711071614.35202.tclug@lizakowski.com>


What languages do you know?

Jeremy

On Wednesday 07 November 2007 4:07:18 pm Anna Edwards wrote:
> i need a program that pings several servers (decided by a main server) and
> records ping times to send to the home server. can someone help me with it?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 16:43:42 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:43:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] internet speed testing program
In-Reply-To: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <130624.51802.qm@web33708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071628260.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Anna Edwards wrote:

> i need a program that pings several servers (decided by a main server) 
> and records ping times to send to the home server. can someone help me 
> with it?

If you have a web server on the "main server" and can receive email on the 
home server, you could do something like this in a bash script:

wget http://main.server/ping_list.txt
for server in $(cat ping_list.txt); do echo $server >> ping_out.txt ; ping -c 5 $server | tail -1 >> ping_out.txt ; done
mail pingtimes at home.server < ping_out.txt

Possibly better to use scp for file transfers instead of wget and mail, 
but I don't know the trick to doing scp without interaction for the 
authentication.  There is a way to set up some kind of "keygen" thing -- 
someone else will have to say.

If you do this using scp, you'll have to have a way to take the incoming 
data file and append it to previous files, or maybe just give it a 
different name based on the time.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 16:43:00 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:43:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711071344.37479.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.

Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?


Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:45 PM
> To: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
>
>
>
> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>
> This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
> Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.
>
> Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy
> will report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an
> explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
> roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy demos.
>
>
>  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
>  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
>  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building ,
> Room: 3-115
>  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
>
>  http://www.tclug.org
>




From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 17:03:01 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:03:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's 
> especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.

Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?  There is a 
big parking ramp -- the Washington Ave Ramp -- right next door to the 
EE/CSci building.  It does cost something to park there:

http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/maps/WashRamp/

0 - 1 hours, $2.50
1 - 2 hours, $5.00

I agree with your implied concern about cost of parking because it would 
be better to have meetings where parking is free.


> Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?

Don't forget faculty!  ;-)

I'll bet you can recommend a place a block or two from your home that 
would be just perfect.  Seriously, where did you want to meet?

Mike


>>  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
>>  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
>>  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building, Room: 3-115
>>  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
>>
>>  http://www.tclug.org


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 17:02:50 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:02:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200711071702.50833.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?

The UofM is a central location that is on the Bus line, near light rail, and 
within walking distance of a densly populated area.  

We also have access to excellent facilities, free of charge, and without any 
corporate bias.  The UofM is also interested in actively assisting us with 
events like an installfest.

The location does make it easy for students and faculty to attend, which 
comprise a large body of Linux users (largely Ubuntu).  I would guess it's 
the most dense area of Linux usage in the metro.  However, we do not 
specifically focus on UMN students.

It is open to all, and you are welcome to attend.  

Jeremy

On Wednesday 07 November 2007 4:43:00 pm Chuck Cole wrote:
> Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
> especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.
>
> Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
>
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:45 PM
> > To: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
> > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
> >
> >
> >
> > The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> >
> > This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
> > Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.
> >
> > Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in Zurich, Jeremy
> > will report on the state of Wine. That will include some history and an
> > explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
> > roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy
> > demos.
> >
> >
> >  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
> >  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
> >  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building ,
> > Room: 3-115
> >  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
> >
> >  http://www.tclug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 17:18:24 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:18:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEDALFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:03 PM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
> > especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.
>
> Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?

Rush "hour" traffic all over the cities and around UMN.

> 0 - 1 hours, $2.50
> 1 - 2 hours, $5.00

Serious nuisance.

> I agree with your implied concern about cost of parking because it would
> be better to have meetings where parking is free.

.. and where working professionals are

> > Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
>
> Don't forget faculty!  ;-)

Aren't you the only one?  You just fell off the bell curve  :-)

> I'll bet you can recommend a place a block or two from your home that
> would be just perfect.  Seriously, where did you want to meet?

Away from UMN or St Thomas U.  The TIES location is vastly superior on all
counts plus a few more.  There are other locations as are frequented by the
various professional associations in town.

Would not generally recommend a place near my home in Apple Valley, though
TCLUG did have one of its best installfests nearby.


Chuck





From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Nov  7 17:19:27 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:19:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEADCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071654470.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200711071719.27950.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/maps/WashRamp/
> 0 - 1 hours, $2.50
> 1 - 2 hours, $5.00
> I agree with your implied concern about cost of parking because it would
> be better to have meetings where parking is free.

Also, there is free street parking in the residential part of Stadium Village, 
which is a few blocks from the EE building.  

There is also street parking closer to the EE building on the major streets, 
but that takes some patience to find.  

Jeremy



From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 17:38:58 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:38:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711071702.50833.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEAECJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

UMN emphasis is a killer for outside interest and makes it a student group
separate from "the community"... or has historically for the last 20-30
years.

The bus line proximity isn't a big deal or just isn't useful for most folks
"after graduation".

Corporate relevance can be very good.  That is not "bias", it's a real world
emphasis.  Lack of it indicates a student emphasis.

Few, if any, installfests have been done at UMN.  Again. this is a student
emphasis and not clearly a community function or one emphasizing post
graduation concerns and connections.

Perhaps we need a real professional association to step in and host some
Linux-related stuff.  Let TCLUG be a local student group if that is its main
interest and direction.

As I said before, mid-week at UMN makes it both inaccessible and
uninteresting for most past graduation.  My opinion, but also happens to be
the practice of most of the 20 or so professional associations in town.


Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeremy [mailto:tclug at lizakowski.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:03 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Cc: Chuck Cole
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
>
>
> > Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
>
> The UofM is a central location that is on the Bus line, near
> light rail, and
> within walking distance of a densly populated area.
>
> We also have access to excellent facilities, free of charge, and
> without any
> corporate bias.  The UofM is also interested in actively
> assisting us with
> events like an installfest.
>
> The location does make it easy for students and faculty to attend, which
> comprise a large body of Linux users (largely Ubuntu).  I would
> guess it's
> the most dense area of Linux usage in the metro.  However, we do not
> specifically focus on UMN students.
>
> It is open to all, and you are welcome to attend.
>
> Jeremy
>
> On Wednesday 07 November 2007 4:43:00 pm Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Sounds like a good program, but the location is very bad, and it's
> > especially inaccessible at that time of day during the week.
> >
> > Is TCLUG just for the UMN student group now?
> >
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 1:45 PM
> > > To: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
> > > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> > >
> > > This month's meeting will feature Jeremy White, CEO and founder of
> > > Codeweavers, the makers of Wine.
> > >
> > > Freshly back from the annual Wine technical conference in
> Zurich, Jeremy
> > > will report on the state of Wine. That will include some
> history and an
> > > explanation of what Wine is and how it works. It will also include a
> > > roadmap for Wine, including the road to Wine 1.0, as well as flashy
> > > demos.
> > >
> > >
> > >  Date: Wed, Nov 7th
> > >  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
> > >  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building ,
> > > Room: 3-115
> > >  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
> > >
> > >  http://www.tclug.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1114 - Release Date:
> 11/6/2007 8:05 PM
>
>



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 17:44:38 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:44:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEDALFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEDALFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071731140.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?
>
> Rush "hour" traffic all over the cities and around UMN.

But then every place is somewhat inaccessible at that time.  I don't see 
that spot as worse than most other places.


>> it would be better to have meetings where parking is free.
>
> .. and where working professionals are

But they are everywhere.  It's not as if there is one place, far from the 
university where all the working professionals can be found.


>> I'll bet you can recommend a place a block or two from your home that 
>> would be just perfect.  Seriously, where did you want to meet?
>
> Away from UMN or St Thomas U.  The TIES location is vastly superior on 
> all counts plus a few more.  There are other locations as are frequented 
> by the various professional associations in town.

Apparently, TIES is here:

http://tinyurl.com/yt4hfn  (Google Maps long URL)
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108

And that is very near to the UMN St. Paul campus.

So why is it so great to meet out there near Roseville?  It would help 
your case a lot if you could explain yourself.  I have nothing against the 
idea of meeting there but I don't know why it is better than the EE 
building at the U because I've never been to TIES and you haven't told me 
what is better about it.  I don't care if "various professional 
associations in town" hold meetings there -- how does that help TCLUG?

Mike


From rudie at sihope.com  Wed Nov  7 18:01:46 2007
From: rudie at sihope.com (Kevin Hinze)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:01:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
Message-ID: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>

Howdy folks,

I am looking for a standalone disk copy utility for imaging one hard drive to
another. For this particular application, I am using PATA drives. The source
drive will be ~250 GB while the dest drive will be ~400 GB.

I want something OS independent, so something that is a standalone bootable CD
is highly preferred. Shareware and freeware is great but I am also looking at
commercial software, something akin to Ghost. As an aside, Ghost might be too
confusing for some end-users to easily follow instructions, but maybe not.

While a roll-it-yourself Linux solution comes to mind for many folks, I'm not
looking at this as a primary option, unless I've missed some great Linux
project out there to do just this.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

--
Kevin Hinze


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 18:10:22 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:10:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711071731140.2122@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEDBLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:45 PM
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> >> Why is it "especially inaccessible" at 6:30 pm on a Wednesday?
> >
> > Rush "hour" traffic all over the cities and around UMN.
>
> But then every place is somewhat inaccessible at that time.  I don't see
> that spot as worse than most other places.
>
>
> >> it would be better to have meetings where parking is free.
> >
> > .. and where working professionals are
>
> But they are everywhere.  It's not as if there is one place, far from the
> university where all the working professionals can be found.

The U has made itself undesirable as a meeting spot to 20+ national
professional associations.  This is history and current practice as well as
the logistics.  Not merely my opinion, though I've seen UMN cancel TCLUG
events and meeting spaces, and seen problems with other groups, so my
opinion is shaped by specific history also.


> And that is very near to the UMN St. Paul campus.

The U is utterly irrelevant, usually by its choice.

> So why is it so great to meet out there near Roseville?  It would help
> your case a lot if you could explain yourself.

History is not easily explained, nor do I feel duty-bound or capable of
explaining it adequately.  Best to just observe and draw your own
conclusions.


> building at the U because I've never been to TIES and you haven't told me
> what is better about it.  I don't care if "various professional
> associations in town" hold meetings there -- how does that help TCLUG?

I didn't say other professional associations meet at TIES specifically.
Don't know.  However, there are other Linux activities there.

What you prefer (as a newcomer to this 20-30 year history) is idealistic,
but not observant.  I am not presenting "just my own" personal preferences.
I do think TCLUG would benefit from being an actual defined association so
it could qualify for recognition here and there, but that seems to be much
too hard a concept.

How does it help TCLUG?  Technically, TCLUG doesn't actually exist by any
official criterion, so it's beyond help  :-)

It's likely that UMN has requirements of definition and recogniion for
groups wishing to meet and use facilities, and that may be reason for UMN to
limit support also (eg, for liability reasons).

No point in further debate of this now.  Maybe over beer and pizza someday
:-)


Chuck



From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 20:13:08 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:13:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 7, 2007 6:01 PM, Kevin Hinze <rudie at sihope.com> wrote:
> Howdy folks,
>
> I am looking for a standalone disk copy utility for imaging one hard drive to
> another. For this particular application, I am using PATA drives. The source
> drive will be ~250 GB while the dest drive will be ~400 GB.

Is this just a one-off copy or will you be duplicating this image many
times? Your email makes it sound like it's just a one-off thing.  If
this is the case, I'd just use the dd command.  It should be present
on any live linux CD you happen to have around - I usually use knoppix
for this sort of thing, but it could certainly be done under a gentoo
or ubuntu livecd as well. Once you're running on the live cd and have
determined which linux device nodes correspond with each hard disk
(with PATA drives, it'll probably be /dev/hda and /dev/hdb or
something similar.  Look through dmesg to make sure), you can run a
command like this:

This is assuming that /dev/hda is the *source* drive and /dev/hdb is
the *destination.

$ dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb

This will do a bit-for-bit copy of one drive to the other.  I've used
this countless times, and it's never failed me.  The dd command won't
give any indication as to how far it's progressed in the copy, and
since it's copying each bit (including huge chunks of empty space),
it'll take a while.  I usually start this sort of thing when I'm
leaving work for the day - then I come back to a freshly-cloned drive
the next morning.  Make sure that you have no mounted filesystems on
either of these drives while cloning them, by the way.

-Erik


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Wed Nov  7 20:43:21 2007
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:43:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:13:08 -0600, "Erik Anderson" <erikerik at gmail.com>
said:
> $ dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb
> 
> This will do a bit-for-bit copy of one drive to the other.

This will copy the partition table and file system as is, so you won't
be fully utilizing the space on the destination disk. Depending on what
you want to do with the destination disk, this may or may not matter. If
you want to fully utilize the destination disk, you'll have to use a
partition and file system resizing program.


From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 20:57:33 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:57:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
	<1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0711071857l664cf694j3a3761df6bb3645b@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 7, 2007 8:43 PM, Isaac Atilano <aristophrenic at warpmail.net> wrote:
>
> This will copy the partition table and file system as is, so you won't
> be fully utilizing the space on the destination disk. Depending on what
> you want to do with the destination disk, this may or may not matter. If
> you want to fully utilize the destination disk, you'll have to use a
> partition and file system resizing program.

You're absolutely right, Issac.  I forgot to mention that, as a second
step, I usually go in with gparted and resize the partitions to fully
utilize the space on the new disk.

-Erik

-- 
Erik Anderson
http://andersonfam.org


From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Wed Nov  7 21:31:32 2007
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:31:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0711071857l664cf694j3a3761df6bb3645b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
	<1194489801.7096.1220159301@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fc40260f0711071857l664cf694j3a3761df6bb3645b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071108033132.GA9835@mail.hsd1.mn.comcast.net>

On Wed, Nov 07, 2007 at 08:57:33PM -0600, Erik Anderson wrote:
> You're absolutely right, Issac.  I forgot to mention that, as a second
> step, I usually go in with gparted and resize the partitions to fully
> utilize the space on the new disk.
> 
> -Erik

I have used this PING (Part Image is not Ghost):
http://ping.windowsdream.com/

It can backup from local disk to a share, cd, dvd, or from one disk to another.

It can resize after it finishes as well.  I would recommend skipping backup
of the bios, but you may find use for it.

Kelly
KB0GBJ


From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 21:39:02 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:39:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70711071939j77f50cdfrb7e6adeba7c608ae@mail.gmail.com>

Check out Acronis True Image.  Similar to Ghost but dead simple.  I've
used it to clone a single Linux image to 20 different machines.  It
will scale partitions to destination size in the first step as well.

www.acronis.com

On 11/7/07, Kevin Hinze <rudie at sihope.com> wrote:
> Howdy folks,
>
> I am looking for a standalone disk copy utility for imaging one hard drive
> to
> another. For this particular application, I am using PATA drives. The source
> drive will be ~250 GB while the dest drive will be ~400 GB.
>
> I want something OS independent, so something that is a standalone bootable
> CD
> is highly preferred. Shareware and freeware is great but I am also looking
> at
> commercial software, something akin to Ghost. As an aside, Ghost might be
> too
> confusing for some end-users to easily follow instructions, but maybe not.
>
> While a roll-it-yourself Linux solution comes to mind for many folks, I'm
> not
> looking at this as a primary option, unless I've missed some great Linux
> project out there to do just this.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Kevin Hinze
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov  7 22:19:02 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 22:19:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEDBLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEDBLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711072215590.21935@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> No point in further debate of this now.  Maybe over beer and pizza 
> someday :-)


OK, Chuck, but I was hoping you'd tell us more about the goodness of TIES. 
Do they have good meeting space?  Is it free to us?  Good parking?  Easy 
to get to?  How do we sign up?

You don't like the U because they have canceled meeting reservations.  I 
get it, and that is a worry.  It is also bad for parking when compared to 
many other spaces.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Nov  7 23:14:47 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711072215590.21935@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGEDGLFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:19 PM
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > No point in further debate of this now.  Maybe over beer and pizza
> > someday :-)
>
>
> OK, Chuck, but I was hoping you'd tell us more about the goodness
> of TIES.
> Do they have good meeting space?  Is it free to us?  Good parking?  Easy
> to get to?  How do we sign up?

Announcements get posted here often, and all info is on Brian's web site at
http://www.penguinsunbound.org/

I'm not really involved, except as an interested participant.  Don't know
how much official support Brian has, but Linux is far more vital to TIES
mission than to the mission of UMN, so the priority should be very clear and
very high to give simple support.

Very easy to get to: corner of Snelling and Larpenteur.  Free and lotsa free
parking.  Many great places for food and beer nearby.  Rosedale and Har Mar
mall are close by, and Snuffy's and Keys are close by on Larpenteur.

Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.


> You don't like the U because they have canceled meeting reservations.  I
> get it, and that is a worry.  It is also bad for parking when compared to
> many other spaces.

If the U doesn't (or does) "own" something, you can't count on any support
or continuity or input.  I tried for 5 or more years as VP of a real
professional group and rep of a major corporation to build relationships
with UMIT (even offering big ticket funding) and it was a hopeless effort.
They are a political organization with their own agenda, and other
documented, certified, funded, and academic-like interests simply cannot
have a place on their ranking list.  TCLUG is not documented, certified,
funded, or academic.  The UM situation has improved a little in the last 5
or so years, but not enough to matter for this.   More than that, I think
(ie, I learned... ie, BTDT) it's just the wrong venue, AND I don't like
going there because of the congestion, etc.

Would be very different in some other states' universities, but that is
irrelevant here.  For example, some major universities require that graduate
faculty develop and sustain funded collaborations with industry as one of 4
parts of retaining tenure (4: teach, publish, lead research, and do).
Publish usually means co-publish frequently with colleagues in industry.
Not really true here, but changing.


Chuck




From patrickm at citilink.com  Wed Nov  7 23:14:14 2007
From: patrickm at citilink.com (patrickm at citilink.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Drive copy utilities?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071107235545.M34647@sihope.com>
	<fc40260f0711071813r75fba659re25ee1ff75272529@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1136.12.219.1.16.1194498854.squirrel@zok.homelinux.com>

...
> The dd command won't
> give any indication as to how far it's progressed in the copy,
...
> -Erik

  # kill -USR1 <pid of dd>

will cause dd to spit out it's current status.

I usually go to a separate console and enter:

  # while true; do killall -USR1 dd; sleep 60; done

to watch the progress of the copy.


Patrick McCabe



From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Thu Nov  8 07:18:58 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:18:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>

> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>

> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
> what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
> MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
> well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.

I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group. 
And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.

Unless, by using Linux and advocating it, we all become teachers of a sort.

Chris


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Nov  8 07:42:41 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:42:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711080726110.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
>> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
>
>> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
>> what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
>> MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
>> well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.
>
> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.

  Last I checked, TCLUG is not a student group.  We're also not a 
"professional organization."  Strictly speaking, we're not defined as 
anything but a group of people who get together to talk about Linux.  I 
prefer that to a model where we cater to one section of the community, but 
ignore the rest.  We have professionals (however you want to define 
that...people who use Linux in their work?), students (and other assorted 
academics), and tinkerers.  (And probably some other demographics that 
aren't coming to mind.)  I'm happy that all these people with different 
skills and needs can work together, and wouldn't trade it for corporate 
backing, sponsorship, or whatever.  It's a community, plain and simple.

  Of course, it's probably worth disclaiming that we do have corporate 
sponsorship on a minor scale with Real Time Enterprises hosting the list, 
web site, et al.  Alas, they don't require us to ostracize anyone in 
exchange, and they've been (IMO) nothing but benevolent, so no one tends 
to complain.

  Anyway.  Back to preparing for the Fedora 8 release.

      Jima


From wilson at visi.com  Thu Nov  8 07:53:42 2007
From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:53:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <188AFA54-486E-47DB-9532-3E6D0CFECBC1@visi.com>

On Nov 8, 2007, at 7:18 AM, Chris Schumann wrote:

> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.
>
> Unless, by using Linux and advocating it, we all become teachers of  
> a sort.


I'm quite familiar with TIES since my school district is a TIES member  
and I work with them often in my role as a Technology Director. In  
fact, I'll be there this afternoon for a meeting. Their space is very  
conducive to a large group meeting like TCLUG: plentiful parking, easy  
location, fat pipe, etc. Just because TIES is in the education  
business doesn't imply that they only work with student groups.  
They're a large ISP and technical services organization so they've got  
a lot of geeks around there. I suspect the willingness to host TCLUG  
events is driven by that group.

-Tim

-- 
Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist
Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy
mailto: wilson at visi.com  aim: tis270  blog and podcast: http://technosavvy.org




From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Nov  8 08:46:41 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:46:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <188AFA54-486E-47DB-9532-3E6D0CFECBC1@visi.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
	<188AFA54-486E-47DB-9532-3E6D0CFECBC1@visi.com>
Message-ID: <200711080846.41559.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> location, fat pipe, etc. Just because TIES is in the education

Don't they get their Internet2 downstream from the University?  

Jeremy


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Thu Nov  8 09:13:06 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:13:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>

Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
>> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
>>     
>
>   
>> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
>> what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support for
>> MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
>> well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.
>>     
>
> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group. 
>   
Neither have I, mainly because Wednesday nights are nights when most 
students have night class so I wouldn't expect many to be present during 
the meetings. In my 5 semesters at the U so far, I've never had a free 
Wednesday night.

Also related to this, if classes are still held at the time of the 
meetings, isn't parking a bit harder to find if you don't want to use 
the ramp? I imagine it would be better if the meetings are held during 
the weekend but I'm sure there is a very good reason for the current 
time slot and location. If it's convenient for the most people than any 
other day, then I certainly wont complain.



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Nov  8 09:35:18 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:35:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Most of the arguments sound like fluff covering up the real argument.  

The core complaint seems to be that UofM didn't play ball in the past, with 
whatever was trying to be accomplished. 

It then seems presumed that any future dealings with the U will result in the 
same results.  

The rest of the complaints seem to be attempts to persuade others that the U 
is bad.  Then add a promotional call for people to bail and hang out 
elsewhere.

In some senses, it feels like we are being asked to extend a boycott of some 
form, due to former issues from a different organization.  It's good to be 
aware of issues, and learn from them.  But in my experience, the U has been 
very kind and helpful so far.  

Perhaps if TCLUG sought bigtime corporate sponsorship we would run into these 
issues, but I don't think open source is a good match for such corporate 
influence.  

Jeremy


On Thursday 08 November 2007 7:18:58 am Chris Schumann wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
> > From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
> >
> > Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since that's
> > what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other online support
> > for MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple meeting spaces,
> > well-equipped - probably since they do some training for teachers also.
>
> I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> And by that reasoning, TIES mission would not align with this group.
>
> Unless, by using Linux and advocating it, we all become teachers of a sort.
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From dalan at visi.com  Thu Nov  8 10:08:15 2007
From: dalan at visi.com (Don Sparish)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:08:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <web-7406340@mailback2.g2host.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/8d340ee6/attachment.htm 

From bijoy.anose at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:33:49 2007
From: bijoy.anose at gmail.com (Bijoy Anose)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:33:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>

Kudos to Mike Miller for keeping this conversation civil, and on track!

Now that he has patiently extracted the rationale for Chuck's initial
comments, I find that I agree with his
conclusion.  :)

I admit, I didn't go to last night's meeting because of the location,
especially in light of the additional strain
on traffic during rush hour in the heart of the metro area because of
the bridge collapse.  A quick glance at
any online live traffic map will prove to you that the area around the
UofM campus is one of the worst spots
for congestion during peak driving times, anywhere in the Twin Cities,
every day.


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:55:45 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:55:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <web-7406340@mailback2.g2host.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<web-7406340@mailback2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711080855s2dd8c9e7h354875441fac5542@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/07, Don Sparish <dalan at visi.com> wrote:
> As long as the meeting is on a week night I will never be able to attend I
> would vote for a weekend
> meeting time and place to be found.
>
> I don't recall there ever being a reason given for wednesday night meetings,
> but I will look through my emails
> when I get home.

I have the same argument, but in reverse. I'm almost never available
on weekends so I would never be able to attend a weekend meeting. I
would like to attend a TIES meeting because they sound interesting,
but since I'm gone 3/4 weekends it just never works out.

The fact is that it is not possible to satisfy everyone's schedule,
choice of location, etc.

Earlier this year in the Spring when a few of us got together to
discuss getting a regular TCLUG meeting going again, we openly invited
people to discuss these topics and no one responded.  So we met
regularly in person for efficiency reasons and made decisions as a
group based on what we thought would be the best way to start.

Constructive criticism is always welcome, but so far the only good
argument I've heard is the one concerning parking. The choice of day
is too subjective to really be counted either way.

It seems to be working well enough to have both meetings so I don't
understand why we need to either have one solution or the other. As
Jima pointed out, we're just a group of people who want to discuss
Linux. Some additional coordination between the two groups would be
nice, but it seems silly that both can't coexist. It's not as if
there's a gold rush on TCLUG and the first one to stake a claim is
gonna get all the LUGgets (Yep, that's right I just coined the term
LUGgets to refer to any member of a LUG).

My $0.02.

Eric


From josh at tcbug.org  Thu Nov  8 10:59:37 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:59:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com>
	<200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200711081059.43368.josh@tcbug.org>

On Thursday 08 November 2007 09:35:18 am Jeremy wrote:
> Most of the arguments sound like fluff covering up the real argument.
>
> The core complaint seems to be that UofM didn't play ball in the past, with
> whatever was trying to be accomplished.
>
> It then seems presumed that any future dealings with the U will result in
> the same results.
>
> The rest of the complaints seem to be attempts to persuade others that the
> U is bad.  Then add a promotional call for people to bail and hang out
> elsewhere.
>
> In some senses, it feels like we are being asked to extend a boycott of
> some form, due to former issues from a different organization.  It's good
> to be aware of issues, and learn from them.  But in my experience, the U
> has been very kind and helpful so far.
>
> Perhaps if TCLUG sought bigtime corporate sponsorship we would run into
> these issues, but I don't think open source is a good match for such
> corporate influence.
>
> Jeremy

For what it's worth, TCBUG has never had a problem with meetings at the U of 
M.  People do seem to like the central location as being equally unfair to 
everyone, and we've never had a problem with meeting cancellations, room 
availability, political wranglings or the like....although we've always 
facilitated our meetings through the ACM, so maybe that matters.

TCBUG's democraphics generally leans towards the 'old bitter UNIX admin' scale 
of things, we do have a couple of students as members, but the vast majority 
of our membership is comprised of UNIX professionals.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 187 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/969fbe31/attachment.pgp 

From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 10:58:04 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:58:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>

So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?



-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/3f9b5dfa/attachment.htm 

From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Nov  8 10:59:28 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:59:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711081059.29188.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> ----------------------------------------------
> (1)  Location, location, location -- it's not in the heart of the
> worst traffic congestion area during that time slot
> (2)  Free Parking
>
> Arguments for meeting @ UofM, rather than TIES
> ----------------------------------------------
> (1)  I am a UofM student, or live in the City, so it is more convenient for
> me

TIES is in close proximity to the U.  Traffic congestion is similar for most 
travellers, so location is not it's advantage. 

Parking is an advantage.  I see that as the only advantage.

> The consensus appears to be that TCLUG is not specifically a student
> group (presumably also not a group
> geared toward City dwellers), so it seems that the former arguments
> hold more water than the latter.  This is
> assuming, of course, that the facts that have been presented on both
> sides have been accurate and complete.
>
> I don't think anybody is threatening a boycott of any sort, and I
> don't think it's fair to call peoples' arguments
> "fluff" because you happen to disagree with them.  Everyone is
> entitled to their opinion.

Here are some of the things I call fluff:  The argument was made that the U is 
irrelevant, TCLUG is beyond help, and TIES is superior in essentially all 
ways.  Those are sweeping generalities.  I could dismantle those arguments, 
but I decliined in favor of something more brief and getting to the point.  

What I don't think is fluff: the argument that the U was not cooperative with 
previous organizations.  I don't agree with the conclusions, but I think 
that's the reason we are discussing this subject.

If you search the list, we've discussed some of this before.  I don't have 
time to do that at the moment, as I'm leaving the office for a meeting, but I 
maintain that my objections are rational.  

> Here's hoping we come up with a rational outcome that is in the best
> interest of TCLUG as a whole!
>
> Bijoy
>
> On Nov 8, 2007 9:13 AM, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
> > Chris Schumann wrote:
> > >> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:47 -0600
> > >> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Really great "big pipe" internet wired and WiFi connections, since
> > >> that's what TIES is all about.  TIES provides internet and other
> > >> online support for MN schools and teachers.   Large and multiple
> > >> meeting spaces, well-equipped - probably since they do some training
> > >> for teachers also.
> > >
> > > I hope it's not just me, but I've never seen TCLUG as a student group.
> >
> > Neither have I, mainly because Wednesday nights are nights when most
> > students have night class so I wouldn't expect many to be present during
> > the meetings. In my 5 semesters at the U so far, I've never had a free
> > Wednesday night.
> >
> > Also related to this, if classes are still held at the time of the
> > meetings, isn't parking a bit harder to find if you don't want to use
> > the ramp? I imagine it would be better if the meetings are held during
> > the weekend but I'm sure there is a very good reason for the current
> > time slot and location. If it's convenient for the most people than any
> > other day, then I certainly wont complain.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From srcfoo at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 11:12:54 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:12:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/8/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?

That is the current situation. First monday of the month at the U and
last Saturday of the month at TIES (I think it's that last Saturday of
the month, correct me if I'm wrong).


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  8 11:25:22 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:25:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGMEAICJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
>
>
>
> Perhaps if TCLUG sought bigtime corporate sponsorship we would
> run into these
> issues, but I don't think open source is a good match for such corporate
> influence.

FYI, as a non-organization, TCLUG can't qualify if it asked or was offered.
Sponsors need to know the non-profit ID or equiv for their tax reporting,
etc, else they get in big trouble for "where did that go?" audit questions.

IBM, HP, Dell etc think they are good matches for Linux support and usage
and have active support programs.  HP and IBM were officially supporting
Beowolf clusters as of several years ago.

Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or insure anything,
the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the liability if
anything happens.

TCLUG could be chartered to be or do what Jima mentioned, but isn't or
hasn't.  The details can be a nuisance, but it's like growing up and having
to get a driver's license, insurance, and pay taxes or take the consequences
when they come.


Chuck



From kc8son at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  8 11:26:14 2007
From: kc8son at yahoo.com (BTS Technologies)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:26:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Introduction and response to: Re: TCLUG Meeting:
	TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
Message-ID: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I joined the list a few weeks ago and have been lurking until I could contribute something useful.

So, for my intro: I have recently re-located back to the Twin City area after 25 years.  I primarily work in the Windows world (No flames please) and "dabble" in linux for lack of a better word.  I'm primarily a SQL Server DBA and additionally do some .Net development with Oracle and MySQL and PHP and PERL thrown in for good measure.  I have been in the IT industry for 28 years and have worked on numerous kinds of hardware, OSs and software.  

The Central Ohio LUG had a good solution the the problem of meeting times and locations.  They had two meeting locations in different parts of town and would alternate between those locations every other month.  They also alternated the day they met.  One month would be a Wednesday night and the following month was a Saturday morning.

Thanks,

Joe Merten

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/825a7877/attachment.htm 

From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 11:37:52 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 11:37:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711080937k5962ad30ta3e1f3c5a00a6b3a@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 8, 2007 11:12 AM, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/8/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?
>
> That is the current situation. First monday of the month at the U and
> last Saturday of the month at TIES (I think it's that last Saturday of
> the month, correct me if I'm wrong).
>

Ok, wasn't sure as I have just recently moved to the metro and am just now
looking at attending.
Thank you for the info.





-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/b3880dc6/attachment.htm 

From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Thu Nov  8 12:18:06 2007
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:18:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Jobs for folks with some Linux background.
Message-ID: <20071108181806.GA14924@mail.hsd1.mn.comcast.net>

I don't work here:

http://www.enclarity.com/careers2.php

But my wife does.  A couple of the jobs are a good fit for
someone with some Linux, Perl and SQL skills.


Kelly
KB0GBJ



From obelin23 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:08:13 2007
From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:08:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
Message-ID: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>

For what it's worth, I don't attend TCLUG meetings because of
location, mostly because of parking hassles.

Charlie O


From bdunnette at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:13:12 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:13:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Introduction and response to: Re: TCLUG Meeting:
	TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840711081113y51cf8480qe57766b36bdd15ee@mail.gmail.com>

I'll second the suggestion of alternating places & times -- for instance,
weekdays @ the U generally don't work for me, but I'm sure they're great for
some of us.  Maybe we could do the next meeting on a different day at TIES,
then another Wednesday at the University?  That way people could feel free
to "boycott" the U of M without having to miss out on *all* of the fun...

-Brian D.

On 11/8/07, BTS Technologies <kc8son at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>
> I joined the list a few weeks ago and have been lurking until I could
> contribute something useful.
>
> So, for my intro: I have recently re-located back to the Twin City area
> after 25 years.  I primarily work in the Windows world (No flames please)
> and "dabble" in linux for lack of a better word.  I'm primarily a SQL Server
> DBA and additionally do some .Net development with Oracle and MySQL and PHP
> and PERL thrown in for good measure.  I have been in the IT industry for 28
> years and have worked on numerous kinds of hardware, OSs and software.
>
> The Central Ohio LUG had a good solution the the problem of meeting times
> and locations.  They had two meeting locations in different parts of town
> and would alternate between those locations every other month.  They also
> alternated the day they met.  One month would be a Wednesday night and the
> following month was a Saturday morning.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe Merten
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/13541504/attachment.htm 

From florin at iucha.net  Thu Nov  8 13:11:14 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:11:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2853.1194499007.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<47330CC2.2070304@twp-llc.com> <47332782.5060909@umn.edu>
	<50ba6ee40711080833p70ccbbeaq997f51b0ffed32ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711080858t25b8c2bbwac24090cc77a1368@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30711080912p5c346df0v3b7c8a167ba0ac01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071108191114.GQ25561@iucha.net>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:12:54AM -0600, Eric Peterson wrote:
> On 11/8/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > So would it be acceptable to alternate between the two sites?
> 
> That is the current situation. First monday of the month at the U and
> last Saturday of the month at TIES (I think it's that last Saturday of
> the month, correct me if I'm wrong).

Is somebody sending out meeting notices for the Saturday meetings?  I
remember seeing only one, or maybe two.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/46e71e5c/attachment.pgp 

From bdunnette at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:19:15 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:19:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
In-Reply-To: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>

Just a thought: would it be worthwhile to set up some sort of poll to see
when & where people would like to meet (something more in-depth than the
"I (love/hate) the current meeting location & time" flamewar that seems to
have developed)?

-Brian D.

On 11/8/07, Charlie O <obelin23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I don't attend TCLUG meetings because of
> location, mostly because of parking hassles.
>
> Charlie O
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/1ed4e9f8/attachment.htm 

From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 13:23:29 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:23:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Introduction and response to: Re: TCLUG Meeting:
	TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <e9cd5840711081113y51cf8480qe57766b36bdd15ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <291737.43676.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<e9cd5840711081113y51cf8480qe57766b36bdd15ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711081123l5cb2bd9aw97d377864392ce5f@mail.gmail.com>

I'll third it, although it seems that they have been alternating between the
University and TIES.  I just didn't know where or what TIES was until now.

On Nov 8, 2007 1:13 PM, Brian Dunnette <bdunnette at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll second the suggestion of alternating places & times -- for instance,
> weekdays @ the U generally don't work for me, but I'm sure they're great for
> some of us.  Maybe we could do the next meeting on a different day at TIES,
> then another Wednesday at the University?  That way people could feel free
> to "boycott" the U of M without having to miss out on *all* of the fun...
>
> -Brian D.
>
> On 11/8/07, BTS Technologies <kc8son at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >  Hello,
> >
> > I joined the list a few weeks ago and have been lurking until I could
> > contribute something useful.
> >
> > So, for my intro: I have recently re-located back to the Twin City area
> > after 25 years.  I primarily work in the Windows world (No flames please)
> > and "dabble" in linux for lack of a better word.  I'm primarily a SQL Server
> > DBA and additionally do some .Net development with Oracle and MySQL and PHP
> > and PERL thrown in for good measure.  I have been in the IT industry for 28
> > years and have worked on numerous kinds of hardware, OSs and software.
> >
> > The Central Ohio LUG had a good solution the the problem of meeting
> > times and locations.  They had two meeting locations in different parts of
> > town and would alternate between those locations every other month.  They
> > also alternated the day they met.  One month would be a Wednesday night and
> > the following month was a Saturday morning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Joe Merten
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/29e37597/attachment.htm 

From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu  Thu Nov  8 13:42:28 2007
From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:42:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGMEAICJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <200711080935.18360.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGMEAICJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20071108134228.A18818@belka.space.umn.edu>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:25:22AM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
> several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
> liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or insure anything,
> the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the liability if
> anything happens.

Do you have any real info on this, or is this just speculation?
 
> TCLUG could be chartered to be or do what Jima mentioned, but isn't or
> hasn't.  The details can be a nuisance, but it's like growing up and having
> to get a driver's license, insurance, and pay taxes or take the consequences
> when they come.

I think that it is time to put up or shut up.

TCLUG runs more or less as an anarchy. People who have the time
and interest step up and get things done.  Meetings and
installfests are organized. The web page is updated.

In the past some people looked into formalizing TCLUG, and even
though someone had cheap access accountants and/or lawyers (I
forget which - check the archives for details), no one wanted to
spend the time to get it done. If you think that it would be
helpful to incorporate TCLUG as a non-profit, get together some
like-minded people and do it.

If you don't like meetings at the U, get involved with the group
that is organizing the Saturday TIES meetings.  Or if you like
meetings at the U, get involved with helping out with those.

I think that it would be great if you could keep two sets of
meetings going.  I am unlikely to go to any of the meetings, 
but I enjoy reading about them.

I have been on this list for about 10 years (and I used to make
it to meetings ocassionally), and I have learned a lot and had
some fun.  I would just like to thank everyone who has put work
into keeping TCLUG going.

So to Clay and Bob, Chewie and Carl, Jeremy and Eric, and all of
the people I am leaving off: Thank you! 

Please, let's improve the complaining to helping ratio around
here.


-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/ 
Never laugh at live dragons  |


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Nov  8 13:56:21 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:56:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
In-Reply-To: <e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711081352280.16373@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Brian Dunnette wrote:

> Just a thought: would it be worthwhile to set up some sort of poll to 
> see when & where people would like to meet (something more in-depth than 
> the "I (love/hate) the current meeting location & time" flamewar that 
> seems to have developed)?


I like that idea, but I would want the questions to be the right ones. 
There seem to be several issues here -- alternating locations, using TIES, 
weekend/weekday, is the U any good?, etc.

My view is this:  Someone has suggested that TIES is a good meeting place, 
someone else has seconded that, so I think we should look into it.  The 
guy who recommended TIES clearly has an axe to grind with the U, but I 
think we should ignore that and just try to decide if we like TIES as a 
meeting place.

I would suggest that we have a meeting at TIES sometime (unless there is a 
good reason not to do so), then have a poll about meeting places once 
we've seen TIES.

Mike


From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Nov  8 14:21:10 2007
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:21:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Stump the Unix Geek - Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux
 Meeting Nov. 17, 2007
Message-ID: <47336FB6.7030501@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be 
Saturday November 17th at TIES, (a little early to avoid Thanks Giving weekend.)
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 to 12:00.
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.)

This month I will be answers your Unix/Linux/Ubuntu questions.  Or at least I will, and anyone willing to help, will try to answer your question.  

So bring your questions, comments, or hints that you find useful and I will bring some answers!

Thanks, hope to see you there.

==>brian.







From blawrence at qwest.net  Thu Nov  8 15:54:23 2007
From: blawrence at qwest.net (Brian Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:54:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Does anyone have notes from last night's TCLUG meeting?
Message-ID: <00bd01c82251$edc44f20$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>

I was in a car accident on University Ave and Oak St on my way to the
meeting last night. As a result I wasn't able to attend the meeting and I
would very much like to know what Jeremy White of CodeWeavers had to say
about Wine. Would it be possible to post notes to this list or to the
meetings page on the TCLUG site?

Thanks,
Brian Lawrence



From holtzermann17 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 16:27:50 2007
From: holtzermann17 at gmail.com (Joe Corneli)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 16:27:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711081352280.16373@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <72278d10711081108x462923a3r878ebf1830b3cd11@mail.gmail.com>
	<e9cd5840711081119m282c596fufdfbf2a0899307dc@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711081352280.16373@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <a9670630711081427q6d8bb12bl10a9d87492d5505@mail.gmail.com>

My two cents have to do more with activities than with location.

I think it would be nice to alternate meetings that include
presentations with meetings that are oriented towards software
installation/configuring/hacking.

Cf. the Silicon Valley LUG site, http://www.svlug.org/

On 11/8/07, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Brian Dunnette wrote:
>
> > Just a thought: would it be worthwhile to set up some sort of poll to
> > see when & where people would like to meet (something more in-depth than
> > the "I (love/hate) the current meeting location & time" flamewar that
> > seems to have developed)?
>
>
> I like that idea, but I would want the questions to be the right ones.
> There seem to be several issues here -- alternating locations, using TIES,
> weekend/weekday, is the U any good?, etc.
>
> My view is this:  Someone has suggested that TIES is a good meeting place,
> someone else has seconded that, so I think we should look into it.  The
> guy who recommended TIES clearly has an axe to grind with the U, but I
> think we should ignore that and just try to decide if we like TIES as a
> meeting place.
>
> I would suggest that we have a meeting at TIES sometime (unless there is a
> good reason not to do so), then have a poll about meeting places once
> we've seen TIES.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  8 17:48:46 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:48:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <20071108134228.A18818@belka.space.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEALCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jim Crumley
>
> On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:25:22AM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
> > several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
> > liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or
> insure anything,
> > the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the
> liability if
> > anything happens.
>
> Do you have any real info on this, or is this just speculation?

Comments made to me privately by one of the Tanners, but without elaboration
when I offered to host an event.  Real enough for me.

Get your own data.  Lack of mention, support, or appearance at events is
apparent.


> > TCLUG could be chartered to be or do what Jima mentioned, but isn't or
> > hasn't.  The details can be a nuisance, but it's like growing
> up and having
> > to get a driver's license, insurance, and pay taxes or take the
> consequences
> > when they come.
>
> I think that it is time to put up or shut up.
>
> TCLUG runs more or less as an anarchy. People who have the time
> and interest step up and get things done.  Meetings and
> installfests are organized. The web page is updated.
>
> In the past some people looked into formalizing TCLUG, and even
> though someone had cheap access accountants and/or lawyers (I
> forget which - check the archives for details), no one wanted to
> spend the time to get it done. If you think that it would be
> helpful to incorporate TCLUG as a non-profit, get together some
> like-minded people and do it.

I saw that circus.  I had offered to help originally, but there was no
cohesiveness to proceed and there was/is active opposition.  I've formed
several non-profits, including getting federal 501c3 classifications.


> I have been on this list for about 10 years (and I used to make
> it to meetings ocassionally), and I have learned a lot and had
> some fun.  I would just like to thank everyone who has put work
> into keeping TCLUG going.

Ditto.


> So to Clay and Bob, Chewie and Carl, Jeremy and Eric, and all of
> the people I am leaving off: Thank you!
>
> Please, let's improve the complaining to helping ratio around
> here.

Start with yourself.  My comments are all factual and in a constructive
direction.  I've offered to get things done or help.  The day to "get real"
may yet come and it may be for TCLUG.


Chuck





From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Nov  8 18:08:54 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:08:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>




> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:56 PM
>
>  The guy who recommended TIES clearly has an axe to grind with the U,

That's not accurate at all.  Arrangements for proper, mission-related
organizations were diligently sought and were not supported or acknowledged
by the U.  That included simple stuff like planning meeting space in order
to arrange to have noted guest speakers from out of town.  That background
and history is merely real data and an indication of the likely context for
TCLUG to ask for scheduling visibility or other commitments.  I don't care
enough for the U to have "an axe to grind".  I can be factual since I'm not
paid to promote it  :-)

Otherwise, it's a very congested area with limited and expensive parking.  I
can't get in there for meetings at rush hour.  Not anxious to have accidents
on the way either.



Chuck







From florin at iucha.net  Thu Nov  8 18:23:33 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:23:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting:  TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEALCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20071108134228.A18818@belka.space.umn.edu>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEALCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20071109002333.GB4456@iucha.net>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 05:48:46PM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jim Crumley
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:25:22AM -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > Real Time has dropped any visible connection with TCLUG activities as of
> > > several years ago, but probably still hosts this list.  I think it was a
> > > liability concern. Since TCLUG can't take responsibility or
> > insure anything,
> > > the organizing individuals and any seeming sponsors carry the
> > liability if
> > > anything happens.
> >
> > Do you have any real info on this, or is this just speculation?
> 
> Comments made to me privately by one of the Tanners, but without elaboration
> when I offered to host an event.  Real enough for me.
> 
> Get your own data.  Lack of mention, support, or appearance at events is
> apparent.

Uh-oh, the conspiracy is widening.  Were the Tanners in collusion with
the U, or were they acting independently?

florin

-- 
"You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!"
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071108/6c9edf47/attachment.pgp 

From jack at jacku.com  Fri Nov  9 00:16:53 2007
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:16:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
Message-ID: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>

A quick note on the Saturday Linux meetings that are currently going on.  
There are in fact two such meetings. One meeting takes place on the second 
Saturday of the month and is a SIG of the Twin Cities PC User Group 
(www.tcpc.com - site currently undergoing alterations.) This meeting is 
getting ready to enter its 5th year (yikes!) this January. It was started 
when then TCPC President Terry Houle approached TCLUG for some volunteers to 
run a monthly meeting. I've been running those meetings ever since. All are 
welcome, they are held from 9AM-11AM at the Bloomington Eagles, Old Cedar Ave 
and Old Shakopee Rd. 

Earlier this year I received an email from Brian Dolan-Goecke that he was 
thinking about starting up a meeting on the last Saturday of the month at 
TIES. He wanted to make sure the two meetings wouldn't conflict with each 
other. Brian had been a regular at TCPC's Linux on Saturday for a while. 
Brian's meetings are little geekier than the ones we do at TCPC which are 
geared to beginners and people switching to Linux from that other operating 
system. He will need to answer the question of whether they are TCLUG 
meetings or not. 

BTW if anyone wants to join us Linux on Saturday is this week in Bloomington.

 
-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  9 09:27:17 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 07:27:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
Message-ID: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I know this is a bit off topic...

Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  In
addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
procedures and tools.

This is likely something built on a
hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?

Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071109/eb503f91/attachment-0001.htm 

From jkjones at tcq.net  Fri Nov  9 10:02:20 2007
From: jkjones at tcq.net (Kraig Jones)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:02:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4734848C.5000906@tcq.net>

Wayne Johnson wrote:
> I know this is a bit off topic...
>
> Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination 
> guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that 
> they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's 
> problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product 
> changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  
> In addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal 
> as they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic 
> procedures and tools.
>
> This is likely something built on a hierarchical database with a bunch 
> of questions like, does this work? Does that error occur?  Is there 
> this message in a log?
>
> Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
I think I know what you're talking about.  Years ago, I was looking at 
using such a product.  But that was years ago -- as I remember it ran in 
DOS and came on 5 1/4 floppies!  I'm sure the concept is still around, 
and has certainly improved since then.  I don't recall the name of that 
program (if I can find an old box of disks I'll see if I kept a demo), 
but I think there was a "K" in the initials.  The keyword to look for is 
"knowledge base" -- a little more precise than data base.

Kraig



From johntrammell at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 10:51:03 2007
From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John J. Trammell)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:51:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0711090851i70920512sf4f3f0c14b0ae3fa@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like some sort of wiki would be suitable.

On Nov 9, 2007 9:27 AM, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I know this is a bit off topic...
>
> Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination guide
> for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that they run
> through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's problem.  The biggest
> issue I see with this is that as a product changes over it's lifetime, the
> contents of this guide will change.  In addition, we'll want this to be
> developed by the support personal as they gain experience with the product,
> finding new diagnostic procedures and tools.
>
> This is likely something built on a hierarchical database with a bunch of
> questions like, does this work? Does that error occur?  Is there this
> message in a log?
>
> Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
>
> ---
> Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those
> 3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done,"
> Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right,
> (612) 522-7003             | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071109/b121372d/attachment.htm 

From strayf at freeshell.org  Fri Nov  9 10:57:47 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:57:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
Message-ID: <4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>

Jack Ungerleider wrote:
> A quick note on the Saturday Linux meetings that are currently going on.  
> There are in fact two such meetings. One meeting takes place on the second 
> Saturday of the month and is a SIG of the Twin Cities PC User Group 
> (www.tcpc.com - site currently undergoing alterations.) This meeting is 
> getting ready to enter its 5th year (yikes!) this January. It was started 
> when then TCPC President Terry Houle approached TCLUG for some volunteers to 
> run a monthly meeting. I've been running those meetings ever since. All are 
> welcome, they are held from 9AM-11AM at the Bloomington Eagles, Old Cedar Ave 
> and Old Shakopee Rd. 
> 
> Earlier this year I received an email from Brian Dolan-Goecke that he was 
> thinking about starting up a meeting on the last Saturday of the month at 
> TIES. He wanted to make sure the two meetings wouldn't conflict with each 
> other. Brian had been a regular at TCPC's Linux on Saturday for a while. 
> Brian's meetings are little geekier than the ones we do at TCPC which are 
> geared to beginners and people switching to Linux from that other operating 
> system. He will need to answer the question of whether they are TCLUG 
> meetings or not. 
> 
> BTW if anyone wants to join us Linux on Saturday is this week in Bloomington.
> 
>  

Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC and
other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
calendar online somewhere.

-Steve


From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 11:07:57 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:07:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC and

> other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
> calendar online somewhere.
>
> Google calendar would work for me.

-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071109/6ac1c806/attachment.htm 

From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Nov  9 11:08:06 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:08:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen and the magic incantation to summon the DomU
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>


I downloaded a Xen image of Wordpress from rPath (rBuilder).  How do I get it 
running in Xen?  There's a number of different commands and tools, and I 
think I might need to make a config file as well.

Alternately, if there's an easy way to get a basic Ubuntu, Deb, or Fedora 
system running in Xen, I can install my own apps as needed.  

I'm running a Centos dom0.  Anyone have any Xen experience?

Jeremy


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 11:23:15 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:23:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen and the magic incantation to summon the DomU
In-Reply-To: <200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711090923w262ac36cp608ed3f878ca8f71@mail.gmail.com>

Jeremy,

Have you create the xen config file for it? If not you need to do this
first. There should be examples in /etc/xen.

Once that's ready, you can run:
xm create -c /path/to/config_file

Put it in /etc/xen/auto (I just symlink) and it will start
automatically at boot.

If you need more in depth help, let me know.

Eric

On 11/9/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>
> I downloaded a Xen image of Wordpress from rPath (rBuilder).  How do I get it
> running in Xen?  There's a number of different commands and tools, and I
> think I might need to make a config file as well.
>
> Alternately, if there's an easy way to get a basic Ubuntu, Deb, or Fedora
> system running in Xen, I can install my own apps as needed.
>
> I'm running a Centos dom0.  Anyone have any Xen experience?
>
> Jeremy
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From pcutler at foresightlinux.org  Fri Nov  9 11:33:51 2007
From: pcutler at foresightlinux.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:33:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>

Back when I was helping Jeremy with some of the planning (back when I
had free time!), I created a public calendar for the TCLUG on Google.

If you search for TCLUG on google calenar it should come up, or the
calendar ID is  (Calendar ID:
c3gmkb8g9laqk30lvqs4n21764 at group.calendar.google.com)

It *should* be open to all, including invitations.  If there is a
setting wrong, let me know and I'll try to update it.

Paul

On Nov 9, 2007 11:07 AM, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC and
>
> > other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
> > calendar online somewhere.
> >
> >
> Google calendar would work for me.
>
> --
> "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
> -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Nov  9 11:34:40 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:34:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen and the magic incantation to summon the DomU
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711090923w262ac36cp608ed3f878ca8f71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<200711091108.06553.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<579c6fd30711090923w262ac36cp608ed3f878ca8f71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711091134.40470.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Thanks!  I'll try that.

Jeremy

On Friday 09 November 2007 11:23:15 am Eric Peterson wrote:
> Jeremy,
>
> Have you create the xen config file for it? If not you need to do this
> first. There should be examples in /etc/xen.
>
> Once that's ready, you can run:
> xm create -c /path/to/config_file
>
> Put it in /etc/xen/auto (I just symlink) and it will start
> automatically at boot.
>
> If you need more in depth help, let me know.
>
> Eric
>
> On 11/9/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
> > I downloaded a Xen image of Wordpress from rPath (rBuilder).  How do I
> > get it running in Xen?  There's a number of different commands and tools,
> > and I think I might need to make a config file as well.
> >
> > Alternately, if there's an easy way to get a basic Ubuntu, Deb, or Fedora
> > system running in Xen, I can install my own apps as needed.
> >
> > I'm running a Centos dom0.  Anyone have any Xen experience?
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 13:04:09 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:04:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>

It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use it.

On Nov 9, 2007 11:33 AM, Paul Cutler <pcutler at foresightlinux.org> wrote:

> Back when I was helping Jeremy with some of the planning (back when I
> had free time!), I created a public calendar for the TCLUG on Google.
>
> If you search for TCLUG on google calenar it should come up, or the
> calendar ID is  (Calendar ID:
> c3gmkb8g9laqk30lvqs4n21764 at group.calendar.google.com)
>
> It *should* be open to all, including invitations.  If there is a
> setting wrong, let me know and I'll try to update it.
>
> Paul
>
> On Nov 9, 2007 11:07 AM, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG, TCPC
> and
> >
> > > other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a shared
> > > calendar online somewhere.
> > >
> > >
> > Google calendar would work for me.
> >
> > --
> > "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
> act!"
> > -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>



-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071109/e7754a8f/attachment.htm 

From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 13:31:18 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:31:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/9/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use it.

I think the problem we ran into last time was that it required a Gmail
account to access it and not everyone had a Gmail account.

Are there other sites that would work better such as meetup.com?


From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 13:38:03 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:38:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20711091138h4a691ff2m8432fe5873823a37@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 9, 2007 1:31 PM, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/9/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use
> it.
>
> I think the problem we ran into last time was that it required a Gmail
> account to access it and not everyone had a Gmail account.
>
> Are there other sites that would work better such as meetup.com?
>
Meetup is fine by me as well, but I think the same thing applies.  Would
everyone have to have a meetup account?


-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071109/30b71a60/attachment.htm 

From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  9 14:02:39 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:02:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread forking
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGKEAPCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

TCLUG has a website and its free of other entanglements.  Why not use that?


Chuck
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve T
  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:04 PM
  To: Paul Cutler
  Cc: TCLUG
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork


  It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use
it.


  On Nov 9, 2007 11:33 AM, Paul Cutler <pcutler at foresightlinux.org > wrote:

    Back when I was helping Jeremy with some of the planning (back when I
    had free time!), I created a public calendar for the TCLUG on Google.

    If you search for TCLUG on google calenar it should come up, or the
    calendar ID is  (Calendar ID:
    c3gmkb8g9laqk30lvqs4n21764 at group.calendar.google.com)

    It *should* be open to all, including invitations.  If there is a
    setting wrong, let me know and I'll try to update it.

    Paul


    On Nov 9, 2007 11:07 AM, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
    > Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG,
TCPC and
    >
    > > other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a
shared
    > > calendar online somewhere.
    > >
    > >
    > Google calendar would work for me.
    >
    > --
    > "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
act!"
    > -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)

    > _______________________________________________
    > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
    > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
    > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
    >
    >




  --
  "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
  -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)



From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu  Fri Nov  9 14:01:17 2007
From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:01:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200711090016.53714.jack@jacku.com>
	<4734918B.2060006@freeshell.org>
	<7156d5f20711090907q64c4765fj2d84fd7b55f3034b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4c4ad4df0711090933r6e8aac42p59bcdb2e086b9105@mail.gmail.com>
	<7156d5f20711091104w1c2def3bo259ac4b79e0c4c60@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30711091131m36422c45o7b727459fb1f75a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071109140117.A11133@belka.space.umn.edu>

On Fri, Nov 09, 2007 at 01:31:18PM -0600, Eric Peterson wrote:
> On 11/9/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use it.
> 
> I think the problem we ran into last time was that it required a Gmail
> account to access it and not everyone had a Gmail account.

You shouldn't need a google account to use it.  There are ics
links that you should be able to use from just about any calendar
program.  You can also read with feed readers, embed the html
(someone might want to fit it on the TCLUG page), or look at the
standalone webpage from a browser without need of a gmail account:

http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=c3gmkb8g9laqk30lvqs4n21764%40group.calendar.google.com

I think Google calendar will do what's wanted.

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/ 
Never laugh at live dragons  |


From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  9 14:02:24 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:02:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread forking
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEAPCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>


-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Cole [mailto:cncole at earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:58 PM
To: Steve T
Subject: RE: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork


Some of those groups like Meetup require some sort of meeting control and
ads by their people for their goals.  Let's not do that.

Chuck
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve T
  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:38 PM
  To: TCLUG
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork


  On Nov 9, 2007 1:31 PM, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:

    On 11/9/07, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
    > It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will
use it.


    I think the problem we ran into last time was that it required a Gmail
    account to access it and not everyone had a Gmail account.

    Are there other sites that would work better such as meetup.com?

  Meetup is fine by me as well, but I think the same thing applies.  Would
everyone have to have a meetup account?


  --
  "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
  -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Nov  9 14:20:47 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 15:20:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread forking
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGKEAPCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGKEAPCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200711091420.48439.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Chuck,

That's a good idea.  The original plan was to update the website, but we 
didn't have enough time.  We also wanted a wiki, so that any member could add 
pages in a decentralized fashion.  That's the real solution, since it doesn't 
take much to administer once it's running.  It would run in parallel with the 
current site, until it was deemed solid.

Would you be available to volunteer for the website?

Jeremy

On Friday 09 November 2007 2:02:39 pm Chuck Cole wrote:
> TCLUG has a website and its free of other entanglements.  Why not use that?
>
>
> Chuck
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve T
>   Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:04 PM
>   To: Paul Cutler
>   Cc: TCLUG
>   Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread fork
>
>
>   It's still there.  I'd volunteer to keep this updated if anyone will use
> it.
>
>
>   On Nov 9, 2007 11:33 AM, Paul Cutler <pcutler at foresightlinux.org > wrote:
>
>     Back when I was helping Jeremy with some of the planning (back when I
>     had free time!), I created a public calendar for the TCLUG on Google.
>
>     If you search for TCLUG on google calenar it should come up, or the
>     calendar ID is  (Calendar ID:
>     c3gmkb8g9laqk30lvqs4n21764 at group.calendar.google.com)
>
>     It *should* be open to all, including invitations.  If there is a
>     setting wrong, let me know and I'll try to update it.
>
>     Paul
>
>     On Nov 9, 2007 11:07 AM, Steve T <progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
>     > Maybe this is pie-in-the-sky, but it would be cool if TCLUG, TCBUG,
>
> TCPC and
>
>     > > other folks doing *nixy meetings and presentations could have a
>
> shared
>
>     > > calendar online somewhere.
>     >
>     > Google calendar would work for me.
>     >
>     > --
>     > "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
>
> act!"
>
>     > -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>     > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>   --
>   "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary
> act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Nov  9 14:36:53 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 15:36:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Meeting Followup
Message-ID: <200711091436.53477.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The meeting last night was excellent and was well attended.  Jeremy White gave 
a great presentation on Wine, and everyone in the audience had a chance to 
ask their questions.  

We also managed to start at precisely 6:30, and ran right up to 8pm.  Yes, 
chronological precision.  

As stated at the meeting on Wednesday, Eric will be organizing and running the 
December meeting.  I am still available to attend planning meetings, and I 
can help with some things.  However, I have some projects coming up, and I 
need to focus my time on my company for the next month or so.    

Jeremy



From blawrence at qwest.net  Fri Nov  9 14:49:02 2007
From: blawrence at qwest.net (Brian Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:49:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Meeting Followup
In-Reply-To: <200711091436.53477.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <013601c82311$f668ab10$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>

Is Jeremy White's presentation available online or did anyone jot down any
notes/links? I was unable to attend the meeting and would like to hear what
he had to say regarding the future of Wine.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:37 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] Meeting Followup



The meeting last night was excellent and was well attended.  Jeremy White
gave
a great presentation on Wine, and everyone in the audience had a chance to
ask their questions.

We also managed to start at precisely 6:30, and ran right up to 8pm.  Yes,
chronological precision.

As stated at the meeting on Wednesday, Eric will be organizing and running
the
December meeting.  I am still available to attend planning meetings, and I
can help with some things.  However, I have some projects coming up, and I
need to focus my time on my company for the next month or so.

Jeremy


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  9 14:50:54 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:50:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Saturday Meetings - Thread forking
In-Reply-To: <200711091420.48439.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGOEBACJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeremy [mailto:tclug at lizakowski.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:21 PM
>
> Chuck,
>
> That's a good idea.  The original plan was to update the website, but we
> didn't have enough time.  We also wanted a wiki, so that any
> member could add
> pages in a decentralized fashion.  That's the real solution,
> since it doesn't
> take much to administer once it's running.  It would run in
> parallel with the
> current site, until it was deemed solid.
>
> Would you be available to volunteer for the website?
>
> Jeremy

Thanks for asking.  Can't (or don't dare) before about Feb because of some
extra courses I'm in.

Not sure I share the goal for re-vamping the website.  Links to first-rate
stuff would be good.  A bin for "any local trash" doesn't seem good,
however.


Chuck



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Nov  9 15:08:39 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:08:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Meeting Followup
In-Reply-To: <013601c82311$f668ab10$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>
References: <013601c82311$f668ab10$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>
Message-ID: <200711091508.40187.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Brian,

We don't keep official notes or anything like that.  I don't think the slides 
would help much, as the commentary, discussion, and questions are where the 
real information is created.  

I forwarded your email to Jeremy, but I'm not sure there's much he can say, 
since we don't have a transcript.

Jeremy

On Friday 09 November 2007 2:49:02 pm Brian Lawrence wrote:
> Is Jeremy White's presentation available online or did anyone jot down any
> notes/links? I was unable to attend the meeting and would like to hear what
> he had to say regarding the future of Wine.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:37 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] Meeting Followup
>
>
>
> The meeting last night was excellent and was well attended.  Jeremy White
> gave
> a great presentation on Wine, and everyone in the audience had a chance to
> ask their questions.
>
> We also managed to start at precisely 6:30, and ran right up to 8pm.  Yes,
> chronological precision.
>
> As stated at the meeting on Wednesday, Eric will be organizing and running
> the
> December meeting.  I am still available to attend planning meetings, and I
> can help with some things.  However, I have some projects coming up, and I
> need to focus my time on my company for the next month or so.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Nov  9 18:11:19 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:11:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <68dbb6fe0711090851i70920512sf4f3f0c14b0ae3fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<68dbb6fe0711090851i70920512sf4f3f0c14b0ae3fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4734F727.6050909@mtu.net>

Another tool I've used that may be similar is called Protege. 
http://protege.stanford.edu/

John J. Trammell wrote:
> Sounds like some sort of wiki would be suitable.
>
> On Nov 9, 2007 9:27 AM, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com
> <mailto:wdtj at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     I know this is a bit off topic...
>
>     Our support organization is trying to create a problem
>     determination guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted"
>     flow chart that they run through to try and isolate (or even fix)
>     a customer's problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that
>     as a product changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this
>     guide will change.  In addition, we'll want this to be developed
>     by the support personal as they gain experience with the product,
>     finding new diagnostic procedures and tools.
>
>     This is likely something built on a hierarchical database with a
>     bunch of questions like, does this work? Does that error occur? 
>     Is there this message in a log?
>
>     Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
>      
>     ---
>     Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those
>     3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done,"
>     Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right,
>     (612) 522-7003             | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
>
>
>     __________________________________________________
>     Do You Yahoo!?
>     Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>     http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071109/b8bb4cf0/attachment.htm 

From samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com  Fri Nov  9 21:29:47 2007
From: samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com (Samir Nassar)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 21:29:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address
Message-ID: <588088460711091929m3bb2e358of179b6b82ca15749@mail.gmail.com>

If there are LUG members that are able to offer an IP address and some
spare bandwidth let me know. I have a linux box that does not use much
traffic, has few outside-facing services and has functioning and
well-behaved IPTables rules in need of a home.

-- 
Samir M. Nassar
samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com


From josh at joshwelch.com  Sat Nov 10 08:27:49 2007
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 14:27:49 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20071110142749.8tfgzr2pdwko4og4@joshwelch.com>

Quoting Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com>:

> I know this is a bit off topic...
>
> Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
> guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
> they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
> problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
> changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  In
> addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
> they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
> procedures and tools.
>
> This is likely something built on a
> hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
> Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?
>
> Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
>
Yeah, I've seen this to varying degrees of success. If the product for  
which you are trying to do this has any degree of complication, then  
it's damn hard to put together a document of this sort. There are too  
many ways that a troubleshooting process can fork.
I'm assuming the point here is that you're looking to get new people  
up to speed in a rapid fashion, correct? Your best bet is to identify  
the low hanging fruit, those simple issues which address a large  
number of your problems, and tackle those. That should get you part of  
the way there. Your next bet bet would likely be to break down the  
product into specific areas of functionality. Perhaps have a top level  
guide that helps your support staff to determine which area the issue  
lies in. They then turn to the document for that particular area which  
drills down more deeply into specifics.
It would seem that this format lends itself well to a Wiki, I've never  
actually gotten to implementing such a thing but it's great in theory.

Josh



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 10 18:55:03 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:55:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address
In-Reply-To: <588088460711091929m3bb2e358of179b6b82ca15749@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <867775.22917.qm@web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

if it will fit in a coat closet and your willing to pay (probibily 5 a month) and you dont mind a random ip address, i could probibilly let you leach an approx.  500 kbps (rough un-limited to 6 mbps). we have a 10/100  mbps switch with a wireless g part on it.

Samir Nassar wrote: 
> If there are LUG members that are able to offer an IP address and some
> spare bandwidth let me know. I have a linux box that does not use much
> traffic, has few outside-facing services and has functioning and
> well-behaved IPTables rules in need of a home.
> -- 
> Samir M. Nassar
> samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Sat Nov 10 21:33:57 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:33:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <20071110142749.8tfgzr2pdwko4og4@joshwelch.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20071110142749.8tfgzr2pdwko4og4@joshwelch.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90711101933y1c006d09pc25e3b19f8efbd5c@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 10, 2007 8:27 AM, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:

> Quoting Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com>:
>
> > I know this is a bit off topic...
> >
> > Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
> > guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
> > they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
> > problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
> > changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  In
> > addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
> > they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
> > procedures and tools.
> >
> > This is likely something built on a
> > hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
> > Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?
> >
> > Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
> >
> Yeah, I've seen this to varying degrees of success. If the product for
> which you are trying to do this has any degree of complication, then
> it's damn hard to put together a document of this sort. There are too
> many ways that a troubleshooting process can fork.
> I'm assuming the point here is that you're looking to get new people
> up to speed in a rapid fashion, correct? Your best bet is to identify
> the low hanging fruit, those simple issues which address a large
> number of your problems, and tackle those. That should get you part of
> the way there. Your next bet bet would likely be to break down the
> product into specific areas of functionality. Perhaps have a top level
> guide that helps your support staff to determine which area the issue
> lies in. They then turn to the document for that particular area which
> drills down more deeply into specifics.
> It would seem that this format lends itself well to a Wiki, I've never
> actually gotten to implementing such a thing but it's great in theory.
>
> Josh
>
>
I heard Wiki too.  Many Wiki's offer templates and forms for structure, but
also have whiteboards for "X is being Y'd this week."  Support people can
follow a process tree and still have search capabilities.  Wiki also has the
benefit of a sense of ownership, which was implied in Wayne's original
post.  I was once a TWiki freak; I still think it's a good solution, but
I've been scolded here for being too retro or something.  Maybe geeklog.  I
dunno.  My main point is that this can be done well within any of a number
of already-built web frameworks without much if any coding.  And it can be
implemented and grown rather quickly.


   _______________________________________________


TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071110/e295ed71/attachment.htm 

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Nov 11 13:59:59 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:59:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711111959.lABJxx705596@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Computer Triage - lots of stuff

Large list of computer stuff I'm getting rid of, some FREE, some for sale.  See craigslist posting for full list.

Seller Email address: tclug07ad at thinkunix dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From bunjee at charter.net  Sun Nov 11 18:43:22 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:43:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe flash player
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1194804006.16872.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3.1194804006.16872.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1194828202.3274.6.camel@localhost.localdomain6>

If there is anyone out there that can help me install adobe flash player
- I really would appreciate it. I have Fedora 7.I have this folder on my
desktop - /home/bunjee/Desktop/adobe-release-i386-1.0-1.noarch.rpm.
I also have this folder on my desktop - 
/home/bunjee/Desktop/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz
I have been trying to install this software for about a month now - very
frustrating. I specifically go to weather.com & it asks me to install
missing plugins. Please help me. I am very new to Linux - so I need very
specific instructions.
Thanx 
Danny J.
On Sun, 2007-11-11 at 12:00 -0600, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address (Anna Edwards)
>    2. Re: Creating a problem determination guide (Bob Hartmann)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:55:03 -0800 (PST)
> From: Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address
> To: "samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com"
> 	<samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com>
> Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <867775.22917.qm at web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> if it will fit in a coat closet and your willing to pay (probibily 5 a month) and you dont mind a random ip address, i could probibilly let you leach an approx.  500 kbps (rough un-limited to 6 mbps). we have a 10/100  mbps switch with a wireless g part on it.
> 
> Samir Nassar wrote: 
> > If there are LUG members that are able to offer an IP address and some
> > spare bandwidth let me know. I have a linux box that does not use much
> > traffic, has few outside-facing services and has functioning and
> > well-behaved IPTables rules in need of a home.
> > -- 
> > Samir M. Nassar
> > samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:33:57 -0600
> From: "Bob Hartmann" <bob.hartmann at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<b8fc4dd90711101933y1c006d09pc25e3b19f8efbd5c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Nov 10, 2007 8:27 AM, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com>:
> >
> > > I know this is a bit off topic...
> > >
> > > Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
> > > guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
> > > they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
> > > problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
> > > changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  In
> > > addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
> > > they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
> > > procedures and tools.
> > >
> > > This is likely something built on a
> > > hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
> > > Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?
> > >
> > > Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
> > >
> > Yeah, I've seen this to varying degrees of success. If the product for
> > which you are trying to do this has any degree of complication, then
> > it's damn hard to put together a document of this sort. There are too
> > many ways that a troubleshooting process can fork.
> > I'm assuming the point here is that you're looking to get new people
> > up to speed in a rapid fashion, correct? Your best bet is to identify
> > the low hanging fruit, those simple issues which address a large
> > number of your problems, and tackle those. That should get you part of
> > the way there. Your next bet bet would likely be to break down the
> > product into specific areas of functionality. Perhaps have a top level
> > guide that helps your support staff to determine which area the issue
> > lies in. They then turn to the document for that particular area which
> > drills down more deeply into specifics.
> > It would seem that this format lends itself well to a Wiki, I've never
> > actually gotten to implementing such a thing but it's great in theory.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> I heard Wiki too.  Many Wiki's offer templates and forms for structure, but
> also have whiteboards for "X is being Y'd this week."  Support people can
> follow a process tree and still have search capabilities.  Wiki also has the
> benefit of a sense of ownership, which was implied in Wayne's original
> post.  I was once a TWiki freak; I still think it's a good solution, but
> I've been scolded here for being too retro or something.  Maybe geeklog.  I
> dunno.  My main point is that this can be done well within any of a number
> of already-built web frameworks without much if any coding.  And it can be
> implemented and grown rather quickly.
> 
> 
>    _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071110/e295ed71/attachment-0001.htm 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 35, Issue 17
> ******************************************



From trnja001 at umn.edu  Sun Nov 11 19:11:31 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:11:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe flash player
In-Reply-To: <1194828202.3274.6.camel@localhost.localdomain6>
References: <mailman.3.1194804006.16872.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1194828202.3274.6.camel@localhost.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <4737A843.6080001@umn.edu>

Switch to root user and run
rpm -Uvh 
http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/flash-plugin-9.0.48.0-release.i386.rpm

Danny wrote:
> If there is anyone out there that can help me install adobe flash player
> - I really would appreciate it. I have Fedora 7.I have this folder on my
> desktop - /home/bunjee/Desktop/adobe-release-i386-1.0-1.noarch.rpm.
> I also have this folder on my desktop - 
> /home/bunjee/Desktop/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz
> I have been trying to install this software for about a month now - very
> frustrating. I specifically go to weather.com & it asks me to install
> missing plugins. Please help me. I am very new to Linux - so I need very
> specific instructions.
> Thanx 
> Danny J.
> On Sun, 2007-11-11 at 12:00 -0600, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> wrote:
>   
>> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
>> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address (Anna Edwards)
>>    2. Re: Creating a problem determination guide (Bob Hartmann)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:55:03 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address
>> To: "samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com"
>> 	<samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com>
>> Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Message-ID: <867775.22917.qm at web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> if it will fit in a coat closet and your willing to pay (probibily 5 a month) and you dont mind a random ip address, i could probibilly let you leach an approx.  500 kbps (rough un-limited to 6 mbps). we have a 10/100  mbps switch with a wireless g part on it.
>>
>> Samir Nassar wrote: 
>>     
>>> If there are LUG members that are able to offer an IP address and some
>>> spare bandwidth let me know. I have a linux box that does not use much
>>> traffic, has few outside-facing services and has functioning and
>>> well-behaved IPTables rules in need of a home.
>>> -- 
>>> Samir M. Nassar
>>> samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>       
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:33:57 -0600
>> From: "Bob Hartmann" <bob.hartmann at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<b8fc4dd90711101933y1c006d09pc25e3b19f8efbd5c at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2007 8:27 AM, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Quoting Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com>:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I know this is a bit off topic...
>>>>
>>>> Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
>>>> guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
>>>> they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
>>>> problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
>>>> changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  In
>>>> addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
>>>> they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
>>>> procedures and tools.
>>>>
>>>> This is likely something built on a
>>>> hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
>>>> Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Yeah, I've seen this to varying degrees of success. If the product for
>>> which you are trying to do this has any degree of complication, then
>>> it's damn hard to put together a document of this sort. There are too
>>> many ways that a troubleshooting process can fork.
>>> I'm assuming the point here is that you're looking to get new people
>>> up to speed in a rapid fashion, correct? Your best bet is to identify
>>> the low hanging fruit, those simple issues which address a large
>>> number of your problems, and tackle those. That should get you part of
>>> the way there. Your next bet bet would likely be to break down the
>>> product into specific areas of functionality. Perhaps have a top level
>>> guide that helps your support staff to determine which area the issue
>>> lies in. They then turn to the document for that particular area which
>>> drills down more deeply into specifics.
>>> It would seem that this format lends itself well to a Wiki, I've never
>>> actually gotten to implementing such a thing but it's great in theory.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> I heard Wiki too.  Many Wiki's offer templates and forms for structure, but
>> also have whiteboards for "X is being Y'd this week."  Support people can
>> follow a process tree and still have search capabilities.  Wiki also has the
>> benefit of a sense of ownership, which was implied in Wayne's original
>> post.  I was once a TWiki freak; I still think it's a good solution, but
>> I've been scolded here for being too retro or something.  Maybe geeklog.  I
>> dunno.  My main point is that this can be done well within any of a number
>> of already-built web frameworks without much if any coding.  And it can be
>> implemented and grown rather quickly.
>>
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>       
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071110/e295ed71/attachment-0001.htm 
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 35, Issue 17
>> ******************************************
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Sun Nov 11 19:38:12 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:38:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe flash player
In-Reply-To: <1194828202.3274.6.camel@localhost.localdomain6>
References: <mailman.3.1194804006.16872.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1194828202.3274.6.camel@localhost.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <5547.192.168.0.7.1194831492.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>


Danny wrote:
> If there is anyone out there that can help me install adobe flash player
> - I really would appreciate it. I have Fedora 7.I have this folder on my
> desktop - /home/bunjee/Desktop/adobe-release-i386-1.0-1.noarch.rpm.
> I also have this folder on my desktop -
> /home/bunjee/Desktop/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz
> I have been trying to install this software for about a month now - very
> frustrating. I specifically go to weather.com & it asks me to install
> missing plugins. Please help me. I am very new to Linux - so I need very
> specific instructions.

Adobe keeps a yum repository.  Create a repo by installing their
adobe-release rpm :

$ rpm -ihv \
http://linuxdownload.adobe.com/adobe-release/adobe-release-i386-1.0-1.noarch.rpm

Now install the flash plugin
$ yum install flash-plugin

You may have create a symlink

$ cd /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
$ ln -s /usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so  .

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com


From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 19:32:00 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:32:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90711101933y1c006d09pc25e3b19f8efbd5c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <119199.98036.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<20071110142749.8tfgzr2pdwko4og4@joshwelch.com>
	<b8fc4dd90711101933y1c006d09pc25e3b19f8efbd5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90711111732g5c0534devf937c080e64d8916@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.xoops.org is another one to look at.  They have a bunch of
support/help desk modules.  I have a xoops site, but I haven't used it.
Anything more modern than texinfo + ht://dig would rock.

On Nov 10, 2007 9:33 PM, Bob Hartmann <bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Nov 10, 2007 8:27 AM, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
>
> > Quoting Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com>:
> >
> > > I know this is a bit off topic...
> > >
> > > Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
> > > guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
> > > they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
> > > problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
> > > changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.
> >  In
> > > addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
> > > they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
> > > procedures and tools.
> > >
> > > This is likely something built on a
> > > hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
> > > Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?
> > >
> > > Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
> > >
> > Yeah, I've seen this to varying degrees of success. If the product for
> > which you are trying to do this has any degree of complication, then
> > it's damn hard to put together a document of this sort. There are too
> > many ways that a troubleshooting process can fork.
> > I'm assuming the point here is that you're looking to get new people
> > up to speed in a rapid fashion, correct? Your best bet is to identify
> > the low hanging fruit, those simple issues which address a large
> > number of your problems, and tackle those. That should get you part of
> > the way there. Your next bet bet would likely be to break down the
> > product into specific areas of functionality. Perhaps have a top level
> > guide that helps your support staff to determine which area the issue
> > lies in. They then turn to the document for that particular area which
> > drills down more deeply into specifics.
> > It would seem that this format lends itself well to a Wiki, I've never
> > actually gotten to implementing such a thing but it's great in theory.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> I heard Wiki too.  Many Wiki's offer templates and forms for structure,
> but also have whiteboards for "X is being Y'd this week."  Support people
> can follow a process tree and still have search capabilities.  Wiki also has
> the benefit of a sense of ownership, which was implied in Wayne's original
> post.  I was once a TWiki freak; I still think it's a good solution, but
> I've been scolded here for being too retro or something.  Maybe geeklog.  I
> dunno.  My main point is that this can be done well within any of a number
> of already-built web frameworks without much if any coding.  And it can be
> implemented and grown rather quickly.
>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>
>
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071111/d88206d0/attachment-0001.htm 

From erriiik at riseup.net  Sun Nov 11 19:51:01 2007
From: erriiik at riseup.net (erriiik at riseup.net)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 19:51:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Short Circuits: A Collection of Open-Source
	Presentations and Experimentations
Message-ID: <4737B185.7090404@riseup.net>

In a month, Twin Cities Open Circuit will be hosting ShortCircuits, an 
event to showcase your cool tech projects or technology you are excited 
about.

Event Details:
Place: Acadia Cafe, Nicollet & Franklin Ave, Mpls
Time: December 1st, 1-5pm
Cost: $5


ShortCircuits will be a series of 10-15 minute presentations about using 
open source technology and information sharing to better our world. 
We've got a couple presentations, but we need a whole lot for this event 
to take off. Please forward this on to friends who might be interested!

A few examples:
- Building a community wireless mesh network
- Making 3 dimensional panoramas with flash and Papervision3d, an open
source Flash 3d engine
- Drupal-based site hosting a database of youth media projects

If you're interested in presenting something, anything, everything...
please visit http://tcopencircuit.org/index.php?title=Current_events 
page and add your name and /or possible presentation title to the wiki. 
If you don't do that, don't worry, you can just show up at the event and 
give a presentation too. But we'd like to have an idea of what kinds of 
topics will be presented when we're promoting the event.
 
Please send any questions to admin at lists.tcopencircuit.org 
<mailto:admin at lists.tcopencircuit.org>

Thanks, and happy November!
---

Open Circuit is a Twin Cities knowledge-sharing network working to 
demystify computers and information technology. We foster the free 
circulation of technical knowledge to help community organizations 
increase their organizing capacity and improve the common good.

Join our email list 
<http://lists.tcopencircuit.org/listinfo.cgi/opencircuit-tcopencircuit.org>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071111/3b684458/attachment.htm 

From bdunnette at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 20:08:28 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 20:08:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe flash player
In-Reply-To: <1194828202.3274.6.camel@localhost.localdomain6>
References: <mailman.3.1194804006.16872.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1194828202.3274.6.camel@localhost.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840711111808q2afae512ud9fec8ce9925258a@mail.gmail.com>

Danny-

As an aside, is there a particular reason to use Fedora 7 (and not Fedora
8)?  Even if you can't get Adobe's player running, Fedora 8 seems to have
its own repository for an open-source Flash player:

http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Desktop.html#sn-Enabling-Flash-Plugin

-Brian D.

On Nov 11, 2007 6:43 PM, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:

> If there is anyone out there that can help me install adobe flash player
> - I really would appreciate it. I have Fedora 7.I have this folder on my
> desktop - /home/bunjee/Desktop/adobe-release-i386-1.0-1.noarch.rpm.
> I also have this folder on my desktop -
> /home/bunjee/Desktop/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz
> I have been trying to install this software for about a month now - very
> frustrating. I specifically go to weather.com & it asks me to install
> missing plugins. Please help me. I am very new to Linux - so I need very
> specific instructions.
> Thanx
> Danny J.
> On Sun, 2007-11-11 at 12:00 -0600, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> wrote:
> > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> >       tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >       tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >       tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address (Anna Edwards)
> >    2. Re: Creating a problem determination guide (Bob Hartmann)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 16:55:03 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [OT] Scruffy linux box needs IP address
> > To: "samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com"
> >       <samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com>
> > Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> > Message-ID: <867775.22917.qm at web33701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > if it will fit in a coat closet and your willing to pay (probibily 5 a
> month) and you dont mind a random ip address, i could probibilly let you
> leach an approx.  500 kbps (rough un-limited to 6 mbps). we have a 10/100
>  mbps switch with a wireless g part on it.
> >
> > Samir Nassar wrote:
> > > If there are LUG members that are able to offer an IP address and some
> > > spare bandwidth let me know. I have a linux box that does not use much
> > > traffic, has few outside-facing services and has functioning and
> > > well-behaved IPTables rules in need of a home.
> > > --
> > > Samir M. Nassar
> > > samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:33:57 -0600
> > From: "Bob Hartmann" <bob.hartmann at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Creating a problem determination guide
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Message-ID:
> >       <b8fc4dd90711101933y1c006d09pc25e3b19f8efbd5c at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > On Nov 10, 2007 8:27 AM, Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Quoting Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com>:
> > >
> > > > I know this is a bit off topic...
> > > >
> > > > Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
> > > > guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
> > > > they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
> > > > problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
> > > > changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.
>  In
> > > > addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
> > > > they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
> > > > procedures and tools.
> > > >
> > > > This is likely something built on a
> > > > hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this
> work?
> > > > Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?
> > > >
> > > > Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, I've seen this to varying degrees of success. If the product for
> > > which you are trying to do this has any degree of complication, then
> > > it's damn hard to put together a document of this sort. There are too
> > > many ways that a troubleshooting process can fork.
> > > I'm assuming the point here is that you're looking to get new people
> > > up to speed in a rapid fashion, correct? Your best bet is to identify
> > > the low hanging fruit, those simple issues which address a large
> > > number of your problems, and tackle those. That should get you part of
> > > the way there. Your next bet bet would likely be to break down the
> > > product into specific areas of functionality. Perhaps have a top level
> > > guide that helps your support staff to determine which area the issue
> > > lies in. They then turn to the document for that particular area which
> > > drills down more deeply into specifics.
> > > It would seem that this format lends itself well to a Wiki, I've never
> > > actually gotten to implementing such a thing but it's great in theory.
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > >
> > I heard Wiki too.  Many Wiki's offer templates and forms for structure,
> but
> > also have whiteboards for "X is being Y'd this week."  Support people
> can
> > follow a process tree and still have search capabilities.  Wiki also has
> the
> > benefit of a sense of ownership, which was implied in Wayne's original
> > post.  I was once a TWiki freak; I still think it's a good solution, but
> > I've been scolded here for being too retro or something.  Maybe geeklog.
>  I
> > dunno.  My main point is that this can be done well within any of a
> number
> > of already-built web frameworks without much if any coding.  And it can
> be
> > implemented and grown rather quickly.
> >
> >
> >    _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071110/e295ed71/attachment-0001.htm
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 35, Issue 17
> > ******************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071111/0e77bf2b/attachment.htm 

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 12 10:31:40 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:31:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Creating a problem determination guide
In-Reply-To: <20071110142749.8tfgzr2pdwko4og4@joshwelch.com>
Message-ID: <780479.88397.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

IBM uses this sort of thing for it's mainframe maintenance folks, as well as AIX system support.  It nails the low hanging fruit and if all else fails, identifies an area to look at closer.  
 
 Our product now has an LDAP server for authentication (or Active Directory for those inclined), a Security Service that adds our own distinctiveness to the authentication process, 4 different services to maintain current data, history, watch for events, etc. and both local and web based clients.  About 500k lines of code that runs on 14 different platforms.
 
 It becomes a real headache when all you get is an error "Unable to log in".  I know, the software needs to be a bit more specific, but since a lot of the software is OSS, we don't have much of a choice and we want to minimize the number of changes we make in the OSS software.  The support folks need to dig through logs to find what errors were generated where.
 
 Thanks everyone, for the suggestions.

Josh Welch <josh at joshwelch.com> wrote: Quoting Wayne Johnson :

> I know this is a bit off topic...
>
> Our support organization is trying to create a problem determination
> guide for our product.  What I mean is a "scripted" flow chart that
> they run through to try and isolate (or even fix) a customer's
> problem.  The biggest issue I see with this is that as a product
> changes over it's lifetime, the contents of this guide will change.  In
> addition, we'll want this to be developed by the support personal as
> they gain experience with the product, finding new diagnostic
> procedures and tools.
>
> This is likely something built on a
> hierarchical database with a bunch of questions like, does this work?
> Does that error occur?  Is there this message in a log?
>
> Anyone seen this?  Any suggestions.
>
Yeah, I've seen this to varying degrees of success. If the product for  
which you are trying to do this has any degree of complication, then  
it's damn hard to put together a document of this sort. There are too  
many ways that a troubleshooting process can fork.
I'm assuming the point here is that you're looking to get new people  
up to speed in a rapid fashion, correct? Your best bet is to identify  
the low hanging fruit, those simple issues which address a large  
number of your problems, and tackle those. That should get you part of  
the way there. Your next bet bet would likely be to break down the  
product into specific areas of functionality. Perhaps have a top level  
guide that helps your support staff to determine which area the issue  
lies in. They then turn to the document for that particular area which  
drills down more deeply into specifics.
It would seem that this format lends itself well to a Wiki, I've never  
actually gotten to implementing such a thing but it's great in theory.

Josh


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071112/24044fda/attachment-0001.htm 

From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 10:32:47 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:32:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG - U of M Location
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEEAMCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <914f813c0711120832q1fa7ffb6l5d26345b104ae66b@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 8, 2007 6:08 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:56 PM
> >
> >  The guy who recommended TIES clearly has an axe to grind with the U,
>
> That's not accurate at all.  Arrangements for proper, mission-related
> organizations were diligently sought and were not supported or acknowledged
> by the U.  That included simple stuff like planning meeting space in order
> to arrange to have noted guest speakers from out of town.  That background
> and history is merely real data and an indication of the likely context for
> TCLUG to ask for scheduling visibility or other commitments.  I don't care
> enough for the U to have "an axe to grind".  I can be factual since I'm not
> paid to promote it  :-)

If we're not a registered student group with a faculty advisor,
scheduling meeting space is very difficult. This could be made easier
if the group had a connection in the CS office and support from
someone in the CS department. IIRC, we didn't have much trouble
scheduling two years ago, we had meetings every Sat AM with
regularity. I planned two or three speakers at that time and never had
issues that I'm aware of. If we're currently having difficulty, that's
a different story, of course.

> Otherwise, it's a very congested area with limited and expensive parking.  I
> can't get in there for meetings at rush hour.  Not anxious to have accidents
> on the way either.

The U on a Saturday morning makes more sense to me than a Wednesday
evening at the same time as all the night class start times. Parking
is easy enough in that area, you just might have a five block walk,
which is no big deal for most people. City dwellers will have no
problem with this. Suburbanites, I'll hold my tongue... :) But TIES on
Wednesday nights seems like a good setup with easy parking for all,
and not as crowded as campus on a school night.

-- 
John T. Hoffoss [+] Information Security Professional [+]
http://john.hoffoss.com


From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 10:43:06 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 10:43:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting: TODAY! 6:30 - 8:00pm
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEAECJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <200711071702.50833.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEAECJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <914f813c0711120843k1d1941f2r2c75400e0a3bbeb2@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 7, 2007 5:38 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> UMN emphasis is a killer for outside interest and makes it a student group
> separate from "the community"... or has historically for the last 20-30
> years.

We're not a professional organization. We're a Linux Users Group. Big
difference, IMO.

> The bus line proximity isn't a big deal or just isn't useful for most folks
> "after graduation".

Big deal AND useful for any folks without a car, graduated or not. But
to this point, Snelling & Larpenteur is nearly as easy to get to from
either downtown as the U. Just takes longer on a bus.

> Corporate relevance can be very good.  That is not "bias", it's a real world
> emphasis.  Lack of it indicates a student emphasis.

Lack of it indicates independence.

> Few, if any, installfests have been done at UMN.  Again. this is a student
> emphasis and not clearly a community function or one emphasizing post
> graduation concerns and connections.

There have been, but it's been several years. The ones that were held
there when I was a Freshman were well run, well advertised around
campus, and well attended by students and community members both.

> As I said before, mid-week at UMN makes it both inaccessible and
> uninteresting for most past graduation.  My opinion, but also happens to be
> the practice of most of the 20 or so professional associations in town.

Midweek is tougher than weekends at the U, agreed.


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Mon Nov 12 12:45:59 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:45:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Startup Camp
Message-ID: <200711121245.59543.tclug@lizakowski.com>


In case anyone is interested, tomorrow (Tues) there's a meeting discussing 
tech startups.  We meet biweekly, and the main goal is to meet other people 
who are involved in startups or have an idea they are working on.  Finding a 
cofounder is a critical step in starting something, and that requires knowing 
your peers.

We have been meeting for a couple months, and it's a good group of smart 
people.  Everyone has some tech background.

I figure there's probably a few people on the list who might be interested, 
and I just want to get the word out a little bit.  We otherwise grow by word 
of mouth, as we want to stay small enough that you can actually get to know 
everyone.  

-----------------------
mailing list:  startupcamp at googlegroups.com  
(startupcamp-subscribe at googlegroups.com)
-----------------------
The next startup evening event will be Tuesday, Nov 13th, from 7:00-9:00 pm at 
The Green Mill in Uptown (Hennepin Ave).  The goal is to meet similar people, 
and keep in frequent contact with peers.

Green Mill
2626 Hennepin Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55408
612-374-2131

Jeremy


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Nov 13 06:22:44 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:22:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] https slow since IP change
Message-ID: <1670.66.103.176.15.1194956564.squirrel@lctn.org>

Since I changed the IP of a Centos box, https has run very slow. Could be
something else that is causing it, but it seemed fine till the change. Top
shows httpd is hardly using any resources, and tcpdump does not show any
dropped packets. Everything else on the server runs as expected, including
simple http.

Any ideas?


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Nov 13 10:47:41 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:47:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711131647.lADGlfc18471@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: 

Subject: Employment

Must have skills and passion for Linux and open source. Position requires knowledge and experience of using Linux servers, networks, scripting skills, Microsoft PCs and some MS server skills. A positive can-do attitude a must. Education environment. Send resume, salary history and salary requirements to hr at luthersem.edu.

Seller Email address: dsandbor at luthersem dot edu

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 12:25:44 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:25:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free online Linux related books
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>

I found this on the Linux Journal website.

http://freebooks.homelinux.org/


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Tue Nov 13 12:33:47 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:33:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free online Linux related books
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4739EE0B.3050907@umn.edu>

What is the legality of these downloads? I couldn't find any note on the 
web site and I can't imagine the O'Reilly 
<download.php?OReilly%20-%20Linux%20Security%20Cookbook.rar> books being 
available for free.

Eric Peterson wrote:
> I found this on the Linux Journal website.
>
> http://freebooks.homelinux.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 12:56:46 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:56:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free online Linux related books
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711131052j27bb2e3cm7b8ac96030d20228@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
	<4739EE0B.3050907@umn.edu>
	<579c6fd30711131052j27bb2e3cm7b8ac96030d20228@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711131056wf29162t47fd2a236f84d622@mail.gmail.com>

Found this O'Reilly's site:
http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/

I saw a few of the books listed there, but didn't check them all.


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 12:52:23 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:52:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free online Linux related books
In-Reply-To: <4739EE0B.3050907@umn.edu>
References: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
	<4739EE0B.3050907@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711131052j27bb2e3cm7b8ac96030d20228@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/13/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
> What is the legality of these downloads? I couldn't find any note on the
> web site and I can't imagine the O'Reilly
> <download.php?OReilly%20-%20Linux%20Security%20Cookbook.rar> books being
> available for free.

Several O'Reilly books are published under the GNU Free Documentation License.

Here's an example:
http://www.xml.com/ldd/chapter/book/licenseinfo.html

As for the rest, I guess you'll have to do some checking on your own.


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Nov 13 13:19:27 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:19:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Free online Linux related books
In-Reply-To: <4739EE0B.3050907@umn.edu>
References: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
	<4739EE0B.3050907@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711131309250.3648@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote:

> Eric Peterson wrote:
>> I found this on the Linux Journal website.
>>
>> http://freebooks.homelinux.org/
>
> What is the legality of these downloads? I couldn't find any note on the 
> web site and I can't imagine the O'Reilly 
> <download.php?OReilly%20-%20Linux%20Security%20Cookbook.rar> books being 
> available for free.


The web site is hosted in Denmark.  I don't know their laws, but I don't 
think the Scandinavian countries are allowing web servers to violate 
copyright (it's different with something like Pirate Bay in Sweden because 
they are not hosting the files, just helping you to find someone who is on 
P2P BitTorrent).  So they might be on the level.  Either that or they will 
soon vanish.

Regarding BitTorrent -- they recently had a massive collection of "more 
than 1100 computer books" available (e.g., via thepiratebay.org).  It was 
a mix of freely-available and copyrighted materials in PDF or CHM format 
(the latter looks like windows help file format).  About 13 GB, I think.

Mike


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Tue Nov 13 14:15:01 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:15:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visual artifacts in X
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711131415.01741.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Does anyone notice weird visual artifacts in X with recent distros?  I see it 
in both Centos and Ubuntu.  For instance, when I alt-tab in KDE, the list of 
windows doesn't appear, or when firefox refreshes the screen, there is a 
noticeable delay and diagonal streaks of color like a messed up pix buffer 
for a flash of a moment.

In centos, it got particularly bad, where I could only redraw firefox windows 
by resizing them, otherwise the content remained when I switched tabs.  It 
might happen in other apps, but I really only use firefox and Konsole on that 
machine.  

On Ubuntu, the screen saver will also sometimes not blank out the screen, so I 
will see a stale 'screenshot' of the desktop, when in actuality, there is a 
dialog asking for my password.

In short, it seems that some kind of video buffer, somewhere in the system, is 
acting goofy.  Restarting X seems to help, but I only do that a few times per 
year if I can help it. 

I'm suspecting this has something to do with the new 3d desktops.  On both 
machines, I had compiz and/or beryl installed in the past, though I removed  
(or tried to remove) both.  I had never seen these artifacts in years past, 
but now it happens on two different machines, each with a different Distro.  

Anyone else see this?

Jeremy



From dniesen at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 19:38:18 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:38:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Qmail, spam filtering w/ web interface?
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70711131738p6780690dn791d13919bb0192e@mail.gmail.com>

Does anybody have a favorite tool for integrating spam filtering with
Qmail that provides a web interface to view filtered spam?

-- 
Donovan Niesen


From tclug at mikerochford.com  Tue Nov 13 19:58:28 2007
From: tclug at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:58:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Qmail, spam filtering w/ web interface?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70711131738p6780690dn791d13919bb0192e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70711131738p6780690dn791d13919bb0192e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <473A5644.1010104@mikerochford.com>

Donovan,

I am currently using qmail + maildrop + SpamAssassin + sql. There are 
many different ways to allow the end user configure there filters. I 
have attached a link to the SpamAssassin Wiki.

http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/

also a link to the Web Interfaces:

http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/WebUserInterfaces

Hope this helps.

-Mike

Donovan wrote:
> Does anybody have a favorite tool for integrating spam filtering with
> Qmail that provides a web interface to view filtered spam?
> 


From josh at radkeland.org  Wed Nov 14 07:28:36 2007
From: josh at radkeland.org (Joshua Radke)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 07:28:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Visual artifacts in X
In-Reply-To: <200711131415.01741.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <579c6fd30711131025u193e9596r76baabbd2105c090@mail.gmail.com>
	<200711131415.01741.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <473AF804.1020702@radkeland.org>


> Does anyone notice weird visual artifacts in X with recent distros?  I see it 
> in both Centos and Ubuntu.  For instance, when I alt-tab in KDE, the list of 
> windows doesn't appear, or when firefox refreshes the screen, there is a 
> noticeable delay and diagonal streaks of color like a messed up pix buffer 
> for a flash of a moment.
>
> <More details ...>
>   

I recently upgrade Fedora 6 -> Fedora 7 -> Fedora 8, and was excited to 
play with the new 3D desktop effects.  Along the way, I did something 
horrible that made all of the title bars disappear, and kinda hosed the 
environment (Gnome) in general.  A quick search resulted in:

http://linuxfud.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/how-to-reset-ubuntugnome-settings-to-defaults-without-re-installing/
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=419162

The short story is that there are a pile of environment settings in 
/home/<user>/.* directories.  Removing these allows you start over.  
Note that if your desktop is heavily customized, you may wish to proceed 
carefully (I had to reconfigure evolution, but wasn't a big deal) and 
"mv .<blah> .<blah>.bak" one at a time until things look better.

After doing this, I (somehow) avoided whatever I did the first time (I 
believe it was installing/fiddling with emerald); and am happy to report 
that the desktop is very well behaved with respect to screen draws.  For 
reference, I'm using kernel.x86_64.2.6.23.1-42.fc8 with 
kmod-nvidia.x86_64.100.14.19-18.lvn8 on a GEForce 6200 something or other.

I hope this helps!

Josh



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Nov 14 10:59:56 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:59:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711141659.lAEGxuA06114@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Houses Apartments and Roomates

Type of Ad: For Rent

Subject: What A Deal!!!!

<h2>HEAT INCLUDED!!  &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Available Dec 01, 2007</h2>
We are offering a bright, lovely and spacious 1+ bedroom Apartment in Lower NorthEast Minneapolis!   Beautifully maintained and updated older building with only 4 units:  high ceilings, hardwood floors, oak woodwork, very sunny 2nd floor south-facing unit.  Free Laundry!  Nice quiet Street.  Nice quiet Building.  Near Downtown and the U of M campus. 1 Block off major bus line(s).  1 mile from Hennepin Avenue Bridge in East St. Anthony neighborhood.  
<br>

<br>
1 bedroom, large living room, kitchen, dining room, office
<br>
Old World Charm
<br>
Screened Back porch
<br>
Nice hardwood floors and woodwork
<br>
1 car garage (included)
<br>
Fenced in back yard
<br>
Electric Stove/Oven, Refrig
<br>
Basement Storage Area (private)
<br>

<br>
H*E*A*T, Water, Laundry facilities Included!
<br>

<br>
Security Deposit, Background, and Reference check required.
<br>

<br>
$25.00 Credit application fee required.<br><br>
<big><b>If interested, please call 612-850-6940 or 612-706-0674 (Bob or Lucy)</b></big>

Seller Email address: tclug at b-o-b dot homelinux dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Nov 20 17:10:11 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:10:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] still there?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201709030.19029@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

Did TCLUG email list die a week ago?  I have seen no messages from TCLUG 
for about a week, I believe, which is surprising.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Nov 20 19:44:08 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:44:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] still there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201709030.19029@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201709030.19029@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201942070.126@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Mike Miller wrote:

> Did TCLUG email list die a week ago?  I have seen no messages from TCLUG 
> for about a week, I believe, which is surprising.

I sent that message at 5:10 pm today and it was delivered at 7:26 pm 
today.  In between those times I called the Real Time Enterprises people 
and told them that I thought the list was down.  They said they'd look 
into it, and I guess they did that.  So thanks again, Real Time!

Mike


From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Tue Nov 20 19:51:21 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:51:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] still there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201942070.126@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201709030.19029@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201942070.126@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90711201751t6bc5176cw1e246048ed775863@mail.gmail.com>

crap!  when will I learn?  Gmail.
NOW I'm sending to the list.

On Nov 20, 2007 7:44 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Mike Miller wrote:
>
> > Did TCLUG email list die a week ago?  I have seen no messages from TCLUG
> > for about a week, I believe, which is surprising.
>
> I sent that message at 5:10 pm today and it was delivered at 7:26 pm
> today.  In between those times I called the Real Time Enterprises people
> and told them that I thought the list was down.  They said they'd look
> into it, and I guess they did that.  So thanks again, Real Time!
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071120/fbd16da7/attachment.htm 

From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Nov 20 20:38:18 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:38:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: Linux PCs on new aircraft
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIECFCJAA.cncole@earthlink.net>


3rd Repeat...

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Cole [mailto:cncole at earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 4:04 PM
To: TCLUG-List
Subject: Linux PCs on new aircraft


An airline is providing Red Hat Linux PCs for each passenger's use in flight
!!

This started from sharing a cartoon...

>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20071116
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:39 PM
To: Chuck Cole
Subject: Re: FW: Linux PCs


On Fri, 16 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> I had not heard..
> Maybe you know something worth commenting to TCLUG over..

Well, you found it, so why don't you send the comment?  Here's an article:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/082207-worldbeat-singapore-airlines-pu
ts-a.html?netht=082207dailynews2
More:
http://www.google.com/search?q=linux+singapore+airlines

Thanks for the tip!

Mike




From tclug at lizakowski.com  Tue Nov 20 20:56:31 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:56:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] still there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201942070.126@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201709030.19029@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711201942070.126@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200711202056.31577.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I sent that message at 5:10 pm today and it was delivered at 7:26 pm

Several months ago, I was seeing messages dissappear, or delivered up to 4 
days late.  I think it was related to messages getting stuck in a spam filter 
(not related to realtime).  Since then, I think I'm getting all the TCLUG 
mail. Though TCLUG does seem too quiet this week - no legit messages between 
11/14 and 11/20.  

However, I am still missing messages on other accounts.  It's really hard to 
demonstrate if you never see a delivery notice - you just have to wait until 
someone asks a question twice or you see an "Re:" to a message you never saw.  
In the meantime, they presume you just didn't reply.  So, I'm finally 
reworking my mail system, and should have that solved next week.

I should note that my TCLUG address has been quite active these last few days 
with advertisements for fake wrist watches (~6 spams today), but that's not 
coming through the listserve.  

Jeremy

On Tuesday 20 November 2007 7:44:08 pm Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Did TCLUG email list die a week ago?  I have seen no messages from TCLUG
> > for about a week, I believe, which is surprising.
>
> I sent that message at 5:10 pm today and it was delivered at 7:26 pm
> today.  In between those times I called the Real Time Enterprises people
> and told them that I thought the list was down.  They said they'd look
> into it, and I guess they did that.  So thanks again, Real Time!
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 08:18:37 2007
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (Troy)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:18:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs
Message-ID: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Last week I posted with a question about how I can find a Linux job without
documented experience, and where I might look for formal Linux training.  I
am eager to start a career in Linux.  If you have any ideas or suggestions
where I might find an opening, or how I can get "experience", please let me
know.

Thank you for your help!

Troy
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071119/725429f4/attachment.htm 

From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 16 14:10:07 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:10:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux PCs on new aircraft
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEECMLGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

An airline is providing Red Hat Linux PCs for each passenger's use in flight
!!

This started from sharing a cartoon...

>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20071116
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:39 PM
To: Chuck Cole
Subject: Re: FW: Linux PCs


On Fri, 16 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> I had not heard..
> Maybe you know something worth commenting to TCLUG over..

Well, you found it, so why don't you send the comment?  Here's an article:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/082207-worldbeat-singapore-airlines-pu
ts-a.html?netht=082207dailynews2
More:
http://www.google.com/search?q=linux+singapore+airlines

Thanks for the tip!

Mike




From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Nov 16 11:25:05 2007
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:25:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Unix Questions - Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting
	Nov. 17, 2007
Message-ID: <473DD271.1080503@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be Saturday November 17th 
at TIES, (a little early to avoid Thanks Giving weekend.)
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 to 12:00.
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more 
info.)

**** The meeting will be in the Larpenteur Room, which is above the 
parking garage in  the front of the garage along Larpenteur.  You can go 
in the glass doors under the sky walk (where people usually go in)  and 
take the elevator or stairs to the second floor and take the skywalk to 
the garage, and it will be the first doors on the right.  ****


This month I will be answers your Unix/Linux/Ubuntu questions.  Or at 
least I will, and anyone willing to help, will try to answer your 
question. 

So bring your questions, comments, or hints that you find useful and I 
will try to  bring some answers!

Thanks, hope to see you there.

==>brian.







From bryzimmer at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 23:32:54 2007
From: bryzimmer at gmail.com (Bryan Zimmer)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:32:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Classified Ad
Message-ID: <008d01c828db$4edeeb00$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>


Greetings.

I am an old computer geek (48 years old) who has been Linuxing for many =
years. I also use a more widely-used Windowing Operating system, and =
used to run internet servers in a public domain (mail server, name =
servers, apache, etc) for my own company.

I am living on disability now because my health took a turn and I can't =
work a lot.=20

So I am financially strapped, but, forever a computer nerd, I take old =
hardware (or even the newer stuff) and make it go. The equipment I use =
sometimes requires fixing up a bit and always requires ingenuity to put =
the pieces together into a working system.

I am wondering if anyone out there has any old hardware of just about =
any sort that they no longer use because it is now old-fashioned =
technology.=20

My latest creation involved upgrading a computer made in the year 2000, =
upgraded the memory and disk, put in a CD and DVD, video card, and now =
is it a dual boot Linux/W*ndows system that is my primary workstation.

I don't have a working printer, but I have a fair amount of networking =
equipment including hubs, switches, miles of Ethernet cable and a =
considerable knowledge of networking in a hybrid environment.

So if anyone has any such hardware....could be anything from an antique =
laptop to a somewhat questionable DVD drive, or even any old hardware, I =
am willing to pay a small amount, although it wouldn't be much.

It might be better in terms of karma to have it be used than just gather =
dust in your attic.

This might sound eccentric, but I do this stuff for both a hobby and =
occasional jobs. Old hardware, modern operating systems (Fedora 8 and =
XP), programming, networking, tweaking, configuring workstations and =
servers, data communications strategies.

If you have anything you would like to donate or just talk about, feel =
free to contact me via this list, or personally (see below).

Thanks.

Bryan A Zimmer
"BazTheLinuxGuy"

bryzimmer at gmail dot com
zimmer dot bryan at gmail dot com

(651) 492-9388 (use judiciously, it is a cell phone)

Thanks,

Baz


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071116/f734d4d1/attachment-0001.htm 

From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Nov 16 16:04:21 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:04:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux PCs on new aircraft
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOEDBLGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

An airline is providing Red Hat Linux PCs for each passenger's use in flight
!!

This started from sharing a cartoon...

>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20071116
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:39 PM
To: Chuck Cole
Subject: Re: FW: Linux PCs


On Fri, 16 Nov 2007, Chuck Cole wrote:

> I had not heard..
> Maybe you know something worth commenting to TCLUG over..

Well, you found it, so why don't you send the comment?  Here's an article:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/082207-worldbeat-singapore-airlines-pu
ts-a.html?netht=082207dailynews2
More:
http://www.google.com/search?q=linux+singapore+airlines

Thanks for the tip!

Mike




From trnja001 at umn.edu  Tue Nov 20 21:52:15 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 21:52:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4743AB6F.3020104@umn.edu>

Become competent with the various servers and system administration then 
look for a customer support job with some server hosting company as a 
resume builder. There are plenty of start ups looking for employees and 
most prefer Americans or Canadians. 
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33 is a good place to 
start looking.

Troy wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Last week I posted with a question about how I can find a Linux job 
> without documented experience, and where I might look for formal Linux 
> training.  I am eager to start a career in Linux.  If you have any 
> ideas or suggestions where I might find an opening, or how I can get 
> "experience", please let me know.
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Troy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From john.meier at gmail.com  Tue Nov 20 22:02:50 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:02:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <008d01c828db$4edeeb00$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>
References: <008d01c828db$4edeeb00$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0711202002j2c397aa6s740ff32d958a017@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a short list of what I got -   (there's much more - come over and go
"shopping" if you like)

ISA cards
6 Modem
4 network - one with a coax type (thin wire?) connection thingy
4 video - 2 are Long arsed WinNov cards - maybe some sort of video accel or
capture 1 is a cga board (i think)
4 sound cards
3 serial / parallel
some sort of riser card (would plug into bus and hold cards perpendicular to
MB)

PCI cards:

2 real magic netstream 2000 (some sort of vid card)
10 video cards
5 network
1 "cordless PCI card" by symphony no antenna
1 pci card with two phone jacks on it and a 2 lead cord to plug into
somewhere on a mother board (I think this is a wakeup or shutdown a computer
via phone line) made by "bridgecom)
2 modems
1 parallel express.


Computer/Cases

tower (mid) amdk6 case/MB w/ soundblaster ISA card 200W Power supply
generic white mid sized tower with "PC400 system board" some sort of Socket
423 processor includes board documentation and cdrom  no PS - no idea if it
works.
mid sized tower Old acer aspire - 486 or better I think cdrom, floppy, some
memory, PS.  used it as a firewall in the old days.
mid sized tower another white box P2 400Mhz (slot A??  looks like a video
game cartridge), 235W PS CROMnic, Creative ISA card
gateway 2000 P5-75 Full tower case, MB, CPU, PS, Floppy, CDROM - Ran IPCOP
with 4 zones on this baby from many a year.
mid sized tower MB, Hard drive, cdrom, PS, some memory, floppy - this is a
pretty old machine as the memory sims are short in length.  Shit runs, but
too lazy to dig into the bios.

Free books:
Title, Author, ISBN, Other Info
iAPX 88 Book, Intel, N/A, All about the 8088
MS-DOS User guide and Reference, Microsoft, N/A, version 4.0 and 4.01
The Waite Group's Essential Guide to Turbo C, N. Barkakati, 0-672-22675-8
Learning C++, Tom Swan, 0-672-22785-1, Includes 5 1/4 floppy
Special Edition: Using CGI, J. Dwight & M Erwin, 0-7897-0740-3, CDROM MIA
Special Edition: Using Java, A. Newman, et. al, 0-7897-0604-0, Includes
CDROM
Jamsa's 1001 C/C++ Tips, K. Jamsa, 0-9635851-2-6, 3.5 floppy MIA
Java!, T. Ritchey, N/A (1995 New Riders Publishing),CDROm included
C Programming, A. Hanson,0-201-19444-9, N/A
Teach yourself Visual C++ 1.5 in 21 days, Namir Clement Shammas,
0-672-30489-9, (took me longer than 21 days to learn...)
Heavy Metal Visual C++, S. Holzner, N/A (Lib Congress Cat Card No.
94-077910), 3.5 floppy MIA - also must listen to Korn, Pantera, Metallica
(before "Black" album) or other while using this book.


On 11/16/07, Bryan Zimmer <bryzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings.
>
> I am an old computer geek (48 years old) who has been Linuxing for many =
> years. I also use a more widely-used Windowing Operating system, and =
> used to run internet servers in a public domain (mail server, name =
> servers, apache, etc) for my own company.
>
> I am living on disability now because my health took a turn and I can't =
> work a lot.=20
>
> So I am financially strapped, but, forever a computer nerd, I take old =
> hardware (or even the newer stuff) and make it go. The equipment I use =
> sometimes requires fixing up a bit and always requires ingenuity to put =
> the pieces together into a working system.
>
> I am wondering if anyone out there has any old hardware of just about =
> any sort that they no longer use because it is now old-fashioned =
> technology.=20
>
> My latest creation involved upgrading a computer made in the year 2000, =
> upgraded the memory and disk, put in a CD and DVD, video card, and now =
> is it a dual boot Linux/W*ndows system that is my primary workstation.
>
> I don't have a working printer, but I have a fair amount of networking =
> equipment including hubs, switches, miles of Ethernet cable and a =
> considerable knowledge of networking in a hybrid environment.
>
> So if anyone has any such hardware....could be anything from an antique =
> laptop to a somewhat questionable DVD drive, or even any old hardware, I =
> am willing to pay a small amount, although it wouldn't be much.
>
> It might be better in terms of karma to have it be used than just gather =
> dust in your attic.
>
> This might sound eccentric, but I do this stuff for both a hobby and =
> occasional jobs. Old hardware, modern operating systems (Fedora 8 and =
> XP), programming, networking, tweaking, configuring workstations and =
> servers, data communications strategies.
>
> If you have anything you would like to donate or just talk about, feel =
> free to contact me via this list, or personally (see below).
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bryan A Zimmer
> "BazTheLinuxGuy"
>
> bryzimmer at gmail dot com
> zimmer dot bryan at gmail dot com
>
> (651) 492-9388 (use judiciously, it is a cell phone)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Baz
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071120/98edc710/attachment.htm 

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Tue Nov 20 22:47:36 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:47:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <008d01c828db$4edeeb00$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>
References: <008d01c828db$4edeeb00$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20071120224736.41b54071@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:32:54 -0600
"Bryan Zimmer" <bryzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am an old computer geek (48 years old) who has been Linuxing for
> many = years. I also use a more widely-used Windowing Operating
> system, and = used to run internet servers in a public domain (mail
> server, name = servers, apache, etc) for my own company.

<snip>

Bryan - I have the following:

(I'm CC'in the whole list in case anyone else is interested if
you're not - I'll give you first dibs)

3 PII (MAYBE P1 but I'm almost positive they are PII) Compaq (I think)
computers - should be fully functional.  My wife used them last year
in a little computer lab she made at her school, but has since
switched jobs and has no need for em.  I also have a couple other
PI/PII CPU's gathering dust.

4 working CRT monitors (all 17 inch I believe) - needs some Endust.

An old Lexmark printer that my parent's upgraded - should still work
though my son may have pulled apart the paper tray.  :)

An old Visioneer Scanner - should still work but may need a little
TLC.

3 keyboards

Various other odds and ends - old Cisco 978 router - KVM switch I
never found a use for.  I think I even have a 512M stick of some kind 
of memory.

I'm looking to get rid of this stuff though, no charge (unless I have
to drive a long way, then maybe a couple bucks for gas?)  I'd love it
if you (or anyone???) could take the whole lot since I live up by St.
Cloud (work in Delano).

Josh


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Tue Nov 20 22:49:01 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:49:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711202249.01544.tclug@lizakowski.com>


When you say "linux job", do you mean IT/support, or do you mean 
development/programming?

If you mean IT, you might want a certification.  If you want to do 
development, then the credentials are more varied.

Jeremy

On Monday 19 November 2007 8:18:37 am Troy wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Last week I posted with a question about how I can find a Linux job without
> documented experience, and where I might look for formal Linux training.  I
> am eager to start a career in Linux.  If you have any ideas or suggestions
> where I might find an opening, or how I can get "experience", please let me
> know.
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Troy




From chewie at wookimus.net  Tue Nov 20 23:00:47 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:00:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31853.1195621247@skuld.wookimus.net>

Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Last week I posted with a question about how I can find a Linux job
> without documented experience

ISP's, tech support, customer support.  Remember to put on your resume
that you're a "member" of the Twin Cities Linux Users' Group.

> and where I might look for formal Linux training.

Download VMServer, Xen, or one of the other Hypervisor software packages
and install lots of different types of Linux distros.  Install Windows
in one and set up samba shares, etc.  Just dink around with it.  Find a
real-world problem you want to solve at home, and implement it.

I didn't really ignore your question...  O.K. Slightly.  "Formal" Linux
training is something that is self-motivated, something that
demonstrates your ability to find answers and do good research.  If you
actually want to pay for these lessons, then look to some of the IT
training facilities around the Cities.  I recall hearing an ad on the
radio on the way to work the other day advertising UNIX, Linux and
VMWare training.  I don't recall who it was, though.

> I am eager to start a career in Linux.  If you have any ideas or
> suggestions where I might find an opening, or how I can get
> "experience", please let me know.

You're already on your way.  Networking is by far the most powerful
employment tool you have.  If that fails, a head-hunter/recruiter could
help you find a Jr level position.  Put together a resume with a well
defined Objective, and when you send out cover letters, highlight that
objective and why you would be the best candidate for the job.

Good luck!

Chad


From tompoe at fngi.net  Tue Nov 20 23:32:01 2007
From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 23:32:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs
In-Reply-To: <31853.1195621247@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>
	<31853.1195621247@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <4743C2D1.9020304@fngi.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Last week I posted with a question about how I can find a Linux job
>> without documented experience
>>     
>
> ISP's, tech support, customer support.  Remember to put on your resume
> that you're a "member" of the Twin Cities Linux Users' Group.
>
>   
>> and where I might look for formal Linux training.
>>     
>
> Download VMServer, Xen, or one of the other Hypervisor software packages
> and install lots of different types of Linux distros.  Install Windows
> in one and set up samba shares, etc.  Just dink around with it.  Find a
> real-world problem you want to solve at home, and implement it.
>
> I didn't really ignore your question...  O.K. Slightly.  "Formal" Linux
> training is something that is self-motivated, something that
> demonstrates your ability to find answers and do good research.  If you
> actually want to pay for these lessons, then look to some of the IT
> training facilities around the Cities.  I recall hearing an ad on the
> radio on the way to work the other day advertising UNIX, Linux and
> VMWare training.  I don't recall who it was, though.
>
>   
>> I am eager to start a career in Linux.  If you have any ideas or
>> suggestions where I might find an opening, or how I can get
>> "experience", please let me know.
>>     
>
> You're already on your way.  Networking is by far the most powerful
> employment tool you have.  If that fails, a head-hunter/recruiter could
> help you find a Jr level position.  Put together a resume with a well
> defined Objective, and when you send out cover letters, highlight that
> objective and why you would be the best candidate for the job.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>   
Excellent suggestions.  I might add one more thought, if I may.  There 
should be a recycle group around.  If so, volunteer.  Helping to 
refurbish and deliver recycled computers to those who need them looks 
good on your resume, and offers opportunity to explore lots of setups.
Happy Holidays,
Tom


From natecars at natecarlson.com  Wed Nov 21 10:21:38 2007
From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:21:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 256mb pc133 modules
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0711210930230.5488@iron.msp.technicality.org>

Anyone have some 256mb PC133 modules they want to sell off?

Like, today?  ;)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Nov 21 10:21:08 2007
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:21:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] 256mb pc133 modules
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0711210930230.5488@iron.msp.technicality.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0711210930230.5488@iron.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711211020190.31555@Rooster>

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Nate Carlson wrote:

> Anyone have some 256mb PC133 modules they want to sell off?
>
> Like, today?  ;)

There's a 50/50 chance that there's some in my basement. You're welcome to 
come over and rummage (:


-Yaron

--


From teeahr1 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 12:15:27 2007
From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:15:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Also looking for parts (was:  Classified Ad)
Message-ID: <1f729feb0711211015y14f3d09bp49991c413a5e8f89@mail.gmail.com>

I'll jump in on this thread too, not to steal Bryan's thunder or anything.
I am *always* looking for parts in whatever condition; I build Frankenputers
and sell or barter them (mostly here in south Mpls) to lower-income folks,
usually with Ubuntu on them just because I like to keep them all on a mostly
unified platform, but sometimes I go with DSL or straight Debian depending
on the condition of the hardware.  If you've seen the Guerrilla Tech Support
fliers at the bus shelter or the coffee shop, I am he.

What I need now:
RAM, always, from 64Mb on up.  I am always short of memory.
Speakers
Any video cards I can lay my hands on regardless of how old they are, to
take some of the load of these old CPUs
MORE RAM
And anything else you got.

Also and especially, I am always looking for technical assistance.  I
consider myself an "advanced user," and do this because I think it's a good
thing to do and nobody's doing it.  Frankly, I'm better with the people than
I am with the machines.  I'm learning a lot as I go here.  (For instance,
right now I am trying to come up with an elegant solution for making 10
identical Ubuntu installs for 10 identical Dell business desktops.  I don't
have a clue, but I'll figure it out eventually, I'm sure.)

I never know how to close a letter,
Pete

On 11/20/07, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:32:54 -0600
> "Bryan Zimmer" <bryzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am an old computer geek (48 years old) who has been Linuxing for
> > many = years. I also use a more widely-used Windowing Operating
> > system, and = used to run internet servers in a public domain (mail
> > server, name = servers, apache, etc) for my own company.
>
> <snip>
>
> Bryan - I have the following:
>
> (I'm CC'in the whole list in case anyone else is interested if
> you're not - I'll give you first dibs)
>
> 3 PII (MAYBE P1 but I'm almost positive they are PII) Compaq (I think)
> computers - should be fully functional.  My wife used them last year
> in a little computer lab she made at her school, but has since
> switched jobs and has no need for em.  I also have a couple other
> PI/PII CPU's gathering dust.
>
> 4 working CRT monitors (all 17 inch I believe) - needs some Endust.
>
> An old Lexmark printer that my parent's upgraded - should still work
> though my son may have pulled apart the paper tray.  :)
>
> An old Visioneer Scanner - should still work but may need a little
> TLC.
>
> 3 keyboards
>
> Various other odds and ends - old Cisco 978 router - KVM switch I
> never found a use for.  I think I even have a 512M stick of some kind
> of memory.
>
> I'm looking to get rid of this stuff though, no charge (unless I have
> to drive a long way, then maybe a couple bucks for gas?)  I'd love it
> if you (or anyone???) could take the whole lot since I live up by St.
> Cloud (work in Delano).
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071121/4f7bd8c1/attachment.htm 

From bdunnette at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 13:18:33 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:18:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Also looking for parts (was: Classified Ad)
In-Reply-To: <1f729feb0711211015y14f3d09bp49991c413a5e8f89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f729feb0711211015y14f3d09bp49991c413a5e8f89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840711211118r1a2b4a3fu2a605bce59e95ffd@mail.gmail.com>

Not to steal thunder (or parts!) from either of you guys, but thought I'd
mention that there's a group of us still interested in getting a Twin Cities
branch of Free Geek up & running, so that we can do essentially what you're
doing (refurbishing old machines, loading free OSes on them, and getting
them out to people who couldn't otherwise afford them) -- right now, we're
affiliated with Open Circuit, so you can check out their website (
http://tcopencircuit.org) or e-mail list (
http://lists.tcopencircuit.org/listinfo.cgi/opencircuit-tcopencircuit.org)

As for your problem of imaging identical machines, you might try partimage:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=287522

Or, if you're really adventurous, look up TCLUG's "Ghetto Ghost" thread from
way-back-when. ;)

Cheers,
Brian D.

On 11/21/07, Pete <teeahr1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'll jump in on this thread too, not to steal Bryan's thunder or
> anything.  I am *always* looking for parts in whatever condition; I build
> Frankenputers and sell or barter them (mostly here in south Mpls) to
> lower-income folks, usually with Ubuntu on them just because I like to keep
> them all on a mostly unified platform, but sometimes I go with DSL or
> straight Debian depending on the condition of the hardware.  If you've seen
> the Guerrilla Tech Support fliers at the bus shelter or the coffee shop, I
> am he.
>
> What I need now:
> RAM, always, from 64Mb on up.  I am always short of memory.
> Speakers
> Any video cards I can lay my hands on regardless of how old they are, to
> take some of the load of these old CPUs
> MORE RAM
> And anything else you got.
>
> Also and especially, I am always looking for technical assistance.  I
> consider myself an "advanced user," and do this because I think it's a good
> thing to do and nobody's doing it.  Frankly, I'm better with the people than
> I am with the machines.  I'm learning a lot as I go here.  (For instance,
> right now I am trying to come up with an elegant solution for making 10
> identical Ubuntu installs for 10 identical Dell business desktops.  I don't
> have a clue, but I'll figure it out eventually, I'm sure.)
>
> I never know how to close a letter,
> Pete
>
> On 11/20/07, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net > wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:32:54 -0600
> > "Bryan Zimmer" < bryzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I am an old computer geek (48 years old) who has been Linuxing for
> > > many = years. I also use a more widely-used Windowing Operating
> > > system, and = used to run internet servers in a public domain (mail
> > > server, name = servers, apache, etc) for my own company.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Bryan - I have the following:
> >
> > (I'm CC'in the whole list in case anyone else is interested if
> > you're not - I'll give you first dibs)
> >
> > 3 PII (MAYBE P1 but I'm almost positive they are PII) Compaq (I think)
> > computers - should be fully functional.  My wife used them last year
> > in a little computer lab she made at her school, but has since
> > switched jobs and has no need for em.  I also have a couple other
> > PI/PII CPU's gathering dust.
> >
> > 4 working CRT monitors (all 17 inch I believe) - needs some Endust.
> >
> > An old Lexmark printer that my parent's upgraded - should still work
> > though my son may have pulled apart the paper tray.  :)
> >
> > An old Visioneer Scanner - should still work but may need a little
> > TLC.
> >
> > 3 keyboards
> >
> > Various other odds and ends - old Cisco 978 router - KVM switch I
> > never found a use for.  I think I even have a 512M stick of some kind
> > of memory.
> >
> > I'm looking to get rid of this stuff though, no charge (unless I have
> > to drive a long way, then maybe a couple bucks for gas?)  I'd love it
> > if you (or anyone???) could take the whole lot since I live up by St.
> > Cloud (work in Delano).
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071121/871b6674/attachment.htm 

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 18:07:59 2007
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:07:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs
In-Reply-To: <31853.1195621247@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <34de7f3d0711190618i210b47c6jad70e5c9ce886dc9@mail.gmail.com>
	<31853.1195621247@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0711211607vcf52284k8f9343e38cc6945e@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 20, 2007 11:00 PM, Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net> wrote:

> Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > and where I might look for formal Linux training.

>  If you
> actually want to pay for these lessons, then look to some of the IT
> training facilities around the Cities.  I recall hearing an ad on the
> radio on the way to work the other day advertising UNIX, Linux and
> VMWare training.  I don't recall who it was, though.

I know that New Horizons (formerly Benchmark) is building quite a
selection of linux courses.  They are mostly centered around SuSE.
Interestingly enough, Real Time and Redchrome had a lot to do with
that :-).  Last I checked they were adding Redhat and generic "intro
to linux" courses as well.  They also provide VMWare classes, though
not eligbile for VCP.

-Brian W


From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com  Wed Nov 21 22:05:58 2007
From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:05:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
Message-ID: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>

Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php editors.  I 
have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not found an editor I 
like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis), and have played with 
KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often for me).  I was curious what 
other php programmers like to use.

Thanks,

Robert De Mars


From samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com  Wed Nov 21 22:30:46 2007
From: samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com (Samir M. Nassar)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:30:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <200711212230.46382.samir.nassar+tclug@steamedpenguin.com>

On Wednesday 21 November 2007, Robert De Mars wrote:
> Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php editors.  I
> have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not found an editor I
> like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis), and have played with
> KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often for me).  I was curious what
> other php programmers like to use.

vim is nice, especially for remote editing. For more local work I plain 
KWrite. Kate is nice for multiple sessions. I used to swear by Quanta+ but it 
seems to have lost direction.

If one needs the heavy lifting facilities like integration with a apache, 
xdebug, valgrind and kcachegrind for PHP then KDevelop might be a better fit 
for you.

-- 
Samir M. Nassar
samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 22:57:38 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:57:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30711212057t114e1c8aydf32208bbb780ec0@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 21, 2007 10:05 PM, Robert De Mars <tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com> wrote:
> Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php editors.  I
> have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not found an editor I
> like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis), and have played with
> KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often for me).  I was curious what
> other php programmers like to use.

I've tried many editors, but have always found myself coming back to
vim and gvim when I'm in X or Windows. I really think vim and emacs
are great due to their power and flexibility. I always find myself
crippled when I'm in other editors.

The exception is that I really like Kate for note taking. It's session
support provides a nice way of separating my notes.

In the end you'll need to find what feels right, but I'd take another
look at vim. You really need to take some time and familiarize
yourself with its commands, but it's worth it.


Cheers!
Eric


From robert at hutman.net  Wed Nov 21 22:09:12 2007
From: robert at hutman.net (Robert Radtke)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:09:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <474500E8.8010804@hutman.net>

I like Bluefish - it seems to do everything I need. I tried Quanta as 
well for a while and it just never did it for me.

Rob

Robert De Mars wrote:
> Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php editors.  I 
> have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not found an editor I 
> like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis), and have played with 
> KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often for me).  I was curious what 
> other php programmers like to use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert De Mars
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Thu Nov 22 09:14:39 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:14:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <20071122091439.001bdcbf@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:05:58 -0600
Robert De Mars <tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com> wrote:

> Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php
> editors.  I have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not
> found an editor I like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis),
> and have played with KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often
> for me).  I was curious what other php programmers like to use.

I hate (I mean hate) to say it but the only reason I run a Windows VM
through VirtualBox is for UltraEdit - http://www.ultraedit.com/ for
php source editing - ok and QuickBooks. I've tried many linux
native editors such as Kate, Quanta, Bluefish, Eclipse but I just
can't find everything I like about UltraEdit.  Quanta is the
closest.  I hear the ultraedit folks are slowly working a linux
version which would be nice.

I hear Komodo is now free and supposedly it's very good - might wanna
give it a try.  http://www.activestate.com/Products/komodo_edit/

Josh


From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Thu Nov 22 09:30:20 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:30:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
Message-ID: <4027.192.168.0.7.1195745420.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>

For a plain old editor I use emacs.

For a full blown IDE, try eclipse with the PHPeclipse plugin (I haven't
tried it yet)

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Nov 22 12:15:24 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:15:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711221203310.16921@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Robert De Mars wrote:

> Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php editors. 
> I have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not found an editor 
> I like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis), and have played with 
> KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often for me).  I was curious what 
> other php programmers like to use.


This is an interesting issue.  I like to use Emacs, and when I get into 
coding something like RoR or C or HTML, I'll make sure I have the proper 
Emacs mode for that language and any other neat add-ons that might be out 
there.  This has worked well enough for me.  Here's info on PHP on emacs:

http://www.google.com/search?q=emacs+php

But I have a colleague who is a professional coder and his approach is to 
go to an entirely different package for different kinds of files.  He'll 
use Textmate (Mac only) for RoR and he'll use NetBeans for Java, etc.  I 
want to use Linux, and I don't have a Mac, but he will keep the code on a 
Linux machine and edit it remotely using subversion to checkout some code, 
edit it locally and commit changes back to the remote subversion Db. 
That's an interesting approach, and I guess it works well as long as both 
machines and the network are all up.

When I told him that I thought it might be better just to use Emacs, which 
is super portable and has modes for everything, he thought maybe I was 
right.  But then again, I don't do all that much coding myself (not 
compared to pros) so it doesn't matter that much what I do, but I do hire 
people and I usually encourage them to use emacs with appropriate modes.

Mike


From josh at tcbug.org  Fri Nov 23 10:47:54 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 10:47:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711221203310.16921@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711221203310.16921@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200711231047.58851.josh@tcbug.org>

On Thursday 22 November 2007 12:15:24 pm Mike Miller wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, Robert De Mars wrote:
> > Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php editors.
> > I have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not found an editor
> > I like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis), and have played with
> > KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often for me).  I was curious what
> > other php programmers like to use.
>
> This is an interesting issue.  I like to use Emacs, and when I get into
> coding something like RoR or C or HTML, I'll make sure I have the proper
> Emacs mode for that language and any other neat add-ons that might be out
> there.  This has worked well enough for me.  Here's info on PHP on emacs:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=emacs+php
>
> But I have a colleague who is a professional coder and his approach is to
> go to an entirely different package for different kinds of files.  He'll
> use Textmate (Mac only) for RoR and he'll use NetBeans for Java, etc.  I
> want to use Linux, and I don't have a Mac, but he will keep the code on a
> Linux machine and edit it remotely using subversion to checkout some code,
> edit it locally and commit changes back to the remote subversion Db.
> That's an interesting approach, and I guess it works well as long as both
> machines and the network are all up.
>
> When I told him that I thought it might be better just to use Emacs, which
> is super portable and has modes for everything, he thought maybe I was
> right.  But then again, I don't do all that much coding myself (not
> compared to pros) so it doesn't matter that much what I do, but I do hire
> people and I usually encourage them to use emacs with appropriate modes.
>
> Mike
>

Hopefully no one will ever report you to OSHA for encouraging ergonomically 
unsafe work habits. ;)

The reason that different editors exist of course, is that different people 
are productive in different ways.  I for example am probably the perfect 
example of the man with one gun.  I use vi/nvi/vim for all of my editing 
needs, and have done so for 15 odd years.  In all of my UNIX travels I've run 
in to one box where one of those commands didn't start an editor....(and yes, 
it was a linux box ;)  Over the years I've gone from being mainly an admin to 
mainly a programmer, although there's always been overlap...and my 
programming has wandered from language to language, but I've never run in to 
a scenario where I felt the efficiency benefits of an IDE would overcome the 
loss in efficiency I'd run in to by not using vi....especially since I've 
noticed that most IDEs tend to strongly support one language, and switching 
languages oftentimes means finding a new IDE as well.

Where this starts to get dangerous of course is when you start to make 
assumptions about efficiency and productivity.  For instance, it's my natural 
reaction, based on my experience, to say someone who learns new tools all the 
time never really gets to be proficient or efficient with them, or never 
recoups their lost time in learning the tool by using it long enough to enjoy 
the increased productivity it gave them.  On the other hand someone else 
might say they can't see how *I* can be productive coding in vim....something 
that would be quickly cleared up by a couple of minutes in a shared screen 
session.

In all reality, my personality and learning type strongly favors single 
tools...I do what I do because it works best for me, and to blindly assume 
that what I do works best for anyone else can sometimes be foolish.....of 
course on the other hand, I have to balance this against the fact that I am 
incredibly productive, and I've watched people try to accomplish simple admin 
tasks in nano and been aghast at how long it takes them to do things....

Oh, and speaking of editors.....I've always thought it would be fun to have an 
editor wars competition....given a common set of editing tasks and the 
environment of your choice, who can complete them first.  Maybe would make an 
interesting joint TCBUG/TCLUG meeting of sorts....

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 187 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071123/b0a47d36/attachment.pgp 

From terry99 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 11:02:44 2007
From: terry99 at gmail.com (Terry Houle)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:02:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Decals ?
Message-ID: <769c9b390711230902ha8c545exa0711af309a57d73@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody know good places to purchase Tux and Linux type decals where
the shipping cost in not more than the decals themselves?


TIA

Terry Houle

-- 


http://bloomingtongreens.blogspot.com/


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Nov 23 11:08:57 2007
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:08:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Decals ?
In-Reply-To: <769c9b390711230902ha8c545exa0711af309a57d73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <769c9b390711230902ha8c545exa0711af309a57d73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711231107240.16999@Rooster>

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Terry Houle wrote:

> Anybody know good places to purchase Tux and Linux type decals where
> the shipping cost in not more than the decals themselves?

I'm assuming Thinkgeek is too expensive... but consider this: the more 
decals you get, the cheaper relative shipping is. So maybe go in with a 
few other people?


-Yaron

--


From chewie at wookimus.net  Fri Nov 23 13:32:37 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:32:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com> 
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
Message-ID: <4860.1195846357@skuld.wookimus.net>

Robert De Mars <tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com> wrote:
> Forgive me if this is off topic, but I was curious about php editors.
> I have just recently started coding PHP, and I have not found an
> editor I like yet.  I started simply using VIM (elvis),

Small nit-pick.  VIM is actually a very different program than elvis,
though they share some features. They are both Vi-style editors, but
from completely different code-bases.

  * Vi IMproved (VIM): http://vim.org
  * Elvis: http://elvis.the-little-red-haired-girl.org/whatiselvis/index.html

> and have played with KDE's Quanta (but this seems to crash often for
> me).  I was curious what other php programmers like to use.

Personally, it's vim for me, and sometimes emacs. ;-)

Chad


From teeahr1 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 13:43:37 2007
From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:43:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Decals ?
In-Reply-To: <769c9b390711230902ha8c545exa0711af309a57d73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <769c9b390711230902ha8c545exa0711af309a57d73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f729feb0711231143y5de1b96dt347de80e1ae8c383@mail.gmail.com>

>Anybody know good places to purchase Tux and Linux type decals where
>the shipping cost in not more than the decals themselves?

I've been looking into this lately too, and I think Yaron's right, we should
find some people to throw down on this.  Anyone who's interested, shoot me
an email and I'll try to put together a list of who wants what.

-p.

On 11/23/07, Terry Houle <terry99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> TIA
>
> Terry Houle
>
> --
>
>
> http://bloomingtongreens.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071123/dab48a68/attachment.htm 

From terry99 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 13:53:58 2007
From: terry99 at gmail.com (Terry Houle)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:53:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Decals ?
In-Reply-To: <1f729feb0711231143y5de1b96dt347de80e1ae8c383@mail.gmail.com>
References: <769c9b390711230902ha8c545exa0711af309a57d73@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f729feb0711231143y5de1b96dt347de80e1ae8c383@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <769c9b390711231153y7c0b0bd1x74bdd9a0628238d4@mail.gmail.com>

I did just find this site and free shipping.


http://tuxstickers.com/index.php

t

On Nov 23, 2007 1:43 PM, Pete <teeahr1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >Anybody know good places to purchase Tux and Linux type decals where
> >the shipping cost in not more than the decals themselves?
>
> I've been looking into this lately too, and I think Yaron's right, we should
> find some people to throw down on this.  Anyone who's interested, shoot me
> an email and I'll try to put together a list of who wants what.
>
> -p.
>
>
> On 11/23/07, Terry Houle <terry99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Terry Houle
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > http://bloomingtongreens.blogspot.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>



-- 
Terry Houle (terry99 at gmail.com)

http://bloomingtongreens.blogspot.com/


From teeahr1 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 23 13:59:44 2007
From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:59:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Decals ?
In-Reply-To: <769c9b390711231153y7c0b0bd1x74bdd9a0628238d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <769c9b390711230902ha8c545exa0711af309a57d73@mail.gmail.com>
	<1f729feb0711231143y5de1b96dt347de80e1ae8c383@mail.gmail.com>
	<769c9b390711231153y7c0b0bd1x74bdd9a0628238d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f729feb0711231159x2e908ecaj56c458d2fa750c62@mail.gmail.com>

Crap for selection, though.  Ultimately, it may be cheaper to get them
printed locally (if we can get a big enough order, of course).

-p.

On 11/23/07, Terry Houle <terry99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I did just find this site and free shipping.
>
>
> http://tuxstickers.com/index.php
>
> t
>
> On Nov 23, 2007 1:43 PM, Pete <teeahr1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Anybody know good places to purchase Tux and Linux type decals where
> > >the shipping cost in not more than the decals themselves?
> >
> > I've been looking into this lately too, and I think Yaron's right, we
> should
> > find some people to throw down on this.  Anyone who's interested, shoot
> me
> > an email and I'll try to put together a list of who wants what.
> >
> > -p.
> >
> >
> > On 11/23/07, Terry Houle <terry99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > TIA
> > >
> > > Terry Houle
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > http://bloomingtongreens.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Terry Houle (terry99 at gmail.com)
>
> http://bloomingtongreens.blogspot.com/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071123/c4e14dc0/attachment.htm 

From andy at zibnet.us  Fri Nov 23 20:06:40 2007
From: andy at zibnet.us (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:06:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
Message-ID: <47478736.0f0e240a.26db.19a8@mx.google.com>

I make use of subversion for a good chunk of a my scripts. It's always nice to go back to a previous evision when thing go horribly wrong. Since getting subversion up and rinning I've also been putting in config files for routers, switches, and even critical stuff in /etc. Subversion is also great for hopping between platforms.  

I'm mstly stuck in a windows enviorment at work and have been using Notepad++ for editing. Otherwise vim on Linux. Most of my Linux machines are headless or console only servers, so I haven't checked out anything GUI on Linux. 

With subversion, I've found that the editor doesna.t matter much as long as it meets the basics like syntax highlighting and line numbers.


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Nov 23 20:55:44 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:55:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <200711231047.58851.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711221203310.16921@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<200711231047.58851.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711232033390.13578@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> The reason that different editors exist of course, is that different 
> people are productive in different ways.

Another reason is that people make editors to make money or to promote 
themselves, and they promote their product in various ways.  So many 
people use things that suck just because they are there.


> I use vi/nvi/vim for all of my editing needs, and have done so for 15 
> odd years.  In all of my UNIX travels I've run in to one box where one 
> of those commands didn't start an editor....(and yes, it was a linux box 
> ;)

Do you mean that none of those commands started an editor, or do you 
really mean that only one of the three did not start an editor?  You 
should vi on every UNIX/Linux system.  Plenty of UNIX machines won't have 
vim or nvi.


> Oh, and speaking of editors.....I've always thought it would be fun to 
> have an editor wars competition....given a common set of editing tasks 
> and the environment of your choice, who can complete them first.  Maybe 
> would make an interesting joint TCBUG/TCLUG meeting of sorts....

That would be interesting if we had groups put together the tasks such 
that the editing teams did not know in advance, and both (g)vi(m) and 
emacs editing teams were very experienced expert users.

But even if you could arrange that, that would only answer one aspect: 
How efficient is the editor for the expert user?  For those of us who do 
some editing but not hours everyday, or who do certain kinds of tasks much 
more than others, then which is best?  I doubt it is possible to give a 
really broad answer and things will remain as they are for some time.

I do not recommend vi, gvim, etc. to students.  I recommend emacs instead. 
The reason is that vi was not developed for modern computers and it has an 
unusual, unintuitive way of doing things.  Emacs is easier to learn.  I 
also think it is easier to remember the keystrokes, and emacs keys are 
used in the readline library and thus in many programs (like the bash 
commandline).  It is often possible to swich to vi command-line editing, 
but then you have to switch and deal with the fact that other people have 
not switched.  That said, I have nothing against vi and would not 
encourage a vi user to switch to something else.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Nov 23 20:56:55 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:56:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47478736.0f0e240a.26db.19a8@mx.google.com>
References: <47478736.0f0e240a.26db.19a8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711232055590.13578@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:

> I'm mstly stuck in a windows enviorment at work and have been using 
> Notepad++ for editing. Otherwise vim on Linux.

Can't you run gvim on Windows?  I think you can.  I run Emacs on Windows 
and that helps me a lot.

Mike


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Fri Nov 23 21:24:30 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:24:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT: Cisco Router Management] Re: Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <47478736.0f0e240a.26db.19a8@mx.google.com>
References: <47478736.0f0e240a.26db.19a8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0711232123160.7513@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:
> Since getting subversion up and rinning I've also been putting in config 
> files for routers, switches, and even critical stuff in /etc.

BTW, check out Rancid:

http://www.shrubbery.net/rancid/

It's great for managing Cisco configs - automatically fetches them for you 
and stores it in a local RCS db. I wonder if anyone's modified it to work 
with svn..  ;)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Fri Nov 23 21:25:15 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:25:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT: Cisco Router Management] Re: Favorite PHP
 editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0711232123160.7513@iron.msp.technicality.org>
References: <47478736.0f0e240a.26db.19a8@mx.google.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0711232123160.7513@iron.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0711232124550.7513@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Nate Carlson wrote:
> BTW, check out Rancid:
>
> http://www.shrubbery.net/rancid/
>
> It's great for managing Cisco configs - automatically fetches them for 
> you and stores it in a local RCS db. I wonder if anyone's modified it to 
> work with svn..  ;)

I guess it's actually local CVS, and does indeed support SVN in the 
current revs. Man, am I behind the times!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Fri Nov 23 22:14:40 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 22:14:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711240414.lAO4Ees31161@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: MISC FREE STUFF

Hey everyone, I've been doing some Fall cleaning and have some stuff I need to get rid of.  The following is free, first come, first serve.

Books:
Linux for Dummies
Hacking Exposed
Visual Basic 6 for dummies
Visual Basic Step by Step
Visual Basic Programmers guide to the Win32 API

Computer Hardware:
Floppy Drives
CDRom/CDwriter drives
Sun Keyboard and Mouse
G3 mac usb keyboard
Philips Portable CD player (diskman)
generic soundcard
soundblaster livedrive!
Various SDRAM (pc100-pc133, 32-256 MB) 
Intel Celeron 366mhz processor 
Sidewinder PC gamepad

There are a few things listed below, that I'd like to get a few bucks for

24" Black Light - $5
Lava Lamp - $5
800 MHZ linux PC - $15
PC Speakers - $5
Lexmark Z25 Inkjet printer - $5
Linksys Wireless-G PCI network adapter - $10
Netgear USB 54 Mbps wireless adapter(WG121) - $10
D-Link 10/100 pcmcia notebook ethernet adapter (DFE-690TXD) - $5
PCI SCSI adapter - $10


Thanks!  Email me if interested
ajs at cems.umn.edu

Seller Email address: ajs at cems dot umn dot edu

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 23 22:21:15 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:21:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
Message-ID: <446250.57564.qm@web53811.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

You can and I do.  Compared to Notepad++ it's fantastic.  gvim embodies the best or windows and vi editing.  Even has gvimdiff, a diff tool with side-by-side diffs and merging capabilities.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu>
To: Andrew Zbikowski <andy at zibnet.us>
Cc: TCLUG-List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 8:56:55 PM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor


On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:

> I'm mstly stuck in a windows enviorment at work and have been using 
> Notepad++ for editing. Otherwise vim on Linux.

Can't you run gvim on Windows?  I think you can.  I run Emacs on
 Windows 
and that helps me a lot.

Mike

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. 
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071123/94e3b782/attachment.htm 

From josh at tcbug.org  Fri Nov 23 23:44:06 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 23:44:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711232033390.13578@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
	<200711231047.58851.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711232033390.13578@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200711232344.10105.josh@tcbug.org>

On Friday 23 November 2007 08:55:44 pm Mike Miller wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:
> > The reason that different editors exist of course, is that different
> > people are productive in different ways.
>
> Another reason is that people make editors to make money or to promote
> themselves, and they promote their product in various ways.  So many
> people use things that suck just because they are there.
>
> > I use vi/nvi/vim for all of my editing needs, and have done so for 15
> > odd years.  In all of my UNIX travels I've run in to one box where one
> > of those commands didn't start an editor....(and yes, it was a linux box
> > ;)
>
> Do you mean that none of those commands started an editor, or do you
> really mean that only one of the three did not start an editor?  You
> should vi on every UNIX/Linux system.  Plenty of UNIX machines won't have
> vim or nvi.
>

None of those commands started an editor.  The only editor on the box I could 
find was nano.

Also, for what it's worth,  even on some stodgy conservative BSD 
distros, /usr/bin/vi has been a hard link to /usr/bin/nvi for over a decade.  
You'd be hard pressed to find a unix box that wasn't horrificly ancient that 
only had an actual vi on it.  Generally speaking if there's a binary named vi 
it's either a link to nvi or vim, or if it is a real honest to goodness vi, 
then nvi or vim is also available seperately.

> I do not recommend vi, gvim, etc. to students.  I recommend emacs instead.
> The reason is that vi was not developed for modern computers and it has an
> unusual, unintuitive way of doing things.  Emacs is easier to learn.  I
> also think it is easier to remember the keystrokes, and emacs keys are
> used in the readline library and thus in many programs (like the bash
> commandline).  It is often possible to swich to vi command-line editing,
> but then you have to switch and deal with the fact that other people have
> not switched.  That said, I have nothing against vi and would not
> encourage a vi user to switch to something else.
>
> Mike
>

emacs wasn't developed for modern computers either....

My main complaint with emacs is that on a lot of unix and unix-like machines 
it's not installed by default.  To me it's more of a programmer's editor, 
where you can control the environment you are using and install the tools 
that best suit you.   If you're going to be doing admin work in the trenches, 
and especially if you deal with a variety of machines you're eventually going 
to run in to a situation where it would take longer to install emacs than to 
do the editing you need in an editor that's already installed....and when you 
look at all of the unix boxes out there in the field, the vast majority of 
them have some varient of vi as the only common denominator.

bindkey -v for life!

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 187 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071123/bb5317ae/attachment.pgp 

From chewie at wookimus.net  Sat Nov 24 00:04:45 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:04:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite PHP editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711232033390.13578@taxa.epi.umn.edu> 
References: <47450026.4050407@b-o-b.homelinux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711221203310.16921@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<200711231047.58851.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711232033390.13578@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <11848.1195884285@skuld.wookimus.net>

Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> I do not recommend vi, gvim, etc. to students.  I recommend emacs
> instead.  The reason is that vi was not developed for modern computers
> and it has an unusual, unintuitive way of doing things.  Emacs is
> easier to learn.

Funny story.  Back in '94, I decided not to be a Chemical Engineer and
dropped out of the program in Grand Forks in favor of a Biochemistry
program in Duluth.  I still wanted to use email, so I visited the
computer lab and started talking to one of the techs.  You see, one of
my friends told me about this file in your home directory called a
".plan" file that could be displayed when you typed "finger USERNAME".
I wanted to edit that file.  Although I knew pine and pico, the computer
lab tech steered me toward the vi editor.  I'm paraphrasing here, but I
believe he said something like this:

	"If you want to learn to edit in UNIX, learn vi."

So, I did.  I went to the book store and bought a UNIX reference book,
and a Vi reference book.  Little pamphlets that cost me about $5 each.
Well worth it, given that I hated notepad on Windows 3.1.  (Yep, I was a
student at the time, just to point out the obvious.)

The time was well spent.  Although I didn't use vi a whole lot, having
that reference helped me out quite a bit then and when I went to my
first job post-college.  As what, you might ask?  A programmer working
on a DEC OSF/1.  At that time, I was a rabid Emacs fan and wanted to
install it on everything.  Was I disappointed to learn that not only
would I not get my Emacs on that machine, but that I had to learn vi
again!

That was when my co-worker pointed out ViM for Windows...  Now, I could
say that was the end of the story, but here I am writing my email in
Emacs with MH-E mode, trying to re-learn all the crazy keystrokes.

> I also think it is easier to remember the keystrokes, and emacs keys
> are used in the readline library and thus in many programs (like the
> bash commandline).

If you come from a pico/nano/joe/wordstar editor background, then Emacs
will be like a familiar walk in the park.  The context-switching modes
of vi throw off a lot of people, but it can really cut down on CTRL-META
finger gymnastics.

> It is often possible to swich to vi command-line editing, but then you
> have to switch and deal with the fact that other people have not
> switched.

    shell$ echo set editing-mode vi >> ~/.inputrc

> That said, I have nothing against vi and would not encourage a vi user
> to switch to something else.

Productivity is in the numbers.  Use what makes you fast and accurate.

Chad


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Nov 24 13:10:04 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:10:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711241910.lAOJA4908466@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Harddrives

Hey again, I've got some more stuff I'm looking to get rid of.

Harddrives:

20 GB WD  - $10
60 GB Maxtor - $15
80 GB Maxtor - $20
80 GB IBM Deskstar - $20
2 x 160 GB Seagate Barracuda $30 ea
160 GB WD Caviar - $30
320 GB WD Caviar - $45

All drives are in working order with no bad sectors. 

Take all for $175, thats over a TB of storage for under $200 bucks!

Thanks,
Andy
ajs at cems.umn.edu

Seller Email address: ajs at cems dot umn dot edu

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From bryzimmer at gmail.com  Sat Nov 24 13:59:05 2007
From: bryzimmer at gmail.com (Bryan Zimmer)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:59:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Domnated pr doscounted hardware/software stiill wanted
Message-ID: <006d01c82ed4$793a7dc0$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>

 Hello.

Several people answered my ad in which I stated that I am an aging geek with a disability and would gladly take anything you might otherwise toss of store forever, either gratis, or at a nominal price. I am looking for both modern and archaic items (DVD drives/memory chips, power supplies...up to modern workstations. Few items will be to out-of-date ft my purposes contemplate.


None of those people who answered left a phone number. I will leave mine here, should anyone care to call, or email. Those who answered will be emailed again.


Thanks


Bryan A. Zimmer
("Baz the Linux Guy")

email contacts for me:

zimmer dot bryan at gmail dot com
zimmer dot bryan at comcast dot net
bryzimmer at gmail.com

651-492-9388

Thanks,
  

Bryan




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071124/cf845797/attachment.htm 

From bryzimmer at gmail.com  Sat Nov 24 14:22:43 2007
From: bryzimmer at gmail.com (Bryan Zimmer)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 14:22:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Old hardware
Message-ID: <011701c82ed7$c622b9b0$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>

    Thank you I got several Reponses to my add.

I tried to print them out and collate them so I could retrieve the contact information, but I wasn't successful in getting all the associated emails and phone numbers.

Please write to me or call, if you would be so kind, I am very anxious to talk with each of you.

Thanks,

Bryan A. Zimmer
651-492-9388

zimmer dot bryan at gmail dot org


(et alia)


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071124/36797c2c/attachment.htm 

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Nov 25 10:23:18 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 10:23:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711251623.lAPGNIv25022@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Arcade Monitor

Hey everyone,

I have a brand new in-box 19" HAPP Controls CGA arcade monitor for sale. Part number 49-1329-vp2. Here is a link to the manufacturers specifications (remove spaces): http://www.happcontrols.com/ monitors/49049300.htm

I bought this a few years ago thinking I was going to make a MAME cabinet, but I never got around to it. So my loss is your gain! The retail price of this monitor is $180, I'm only asking for $100. This would be great for a MAME cabinet, or replacing a dead monitor from any arcade cabinet.

I have a craigslist posting with pictures (remove spaces)
http://minneapolis .craigslist.org/ tag/488435564.html

Thanks,
Andy
ajs at cems.umn.edu

Seller Email address: ajs at cems dot umn dot edu

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Mon Nov 26 06:35:54 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:35:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Old hardware
In-Reply-To: <011701c82ed7$c622b9b0$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>
References: <011701c82ed7$c622b9b0$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20071126063554.6ba2cd00@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>

Josh Trutwin
612-242-8753
josh at trutwins.homeip.net

I have everything ready to go - I sent you an email a couple days ago
but haven't received a reply yet.

Thanks,

Josh

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 14:22:43 -0600
"Bryan Zimmer" <bryzimmer at gmail.com> wrote:

>     Thank you I got several Reponses to my add.
> 
> I tried to print them out and collate them so I could retrieve the
> contact information, but I wasn't successful in getting all the
> associated emails and phone numbers.
> 
> Please write to me or call, if you would be so kind, I am very
> anxious to talk with each of you.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bryan A. Zimmer
> 651-492-9388
> 
> zimmer dot bryan at gmail dot org
> 
> 
> (et alia)
> 
> 


From woodcarver1 at comcast.net  Mon Nov 26 06:52:39 2007
From: woodcarver1 at comcast.net (Tom Tucker)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:52:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Firewall and Antivirus
Message-ID: <474AC197.7090609@comcast.net>

As a new Linux user i have a question regarding firewalls and and 
antivirus software.

I am using linux as part of a duel boot sytem along with XP pro.  i have 
the windows partion protected with the firewall and antivirus software 
and am wondering if I need to add both to the linux partion?  If I do 
what programs do I use?

T.


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Mon Nov 26 07:44:30 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:44:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Old hardware
In-Reply-To: <20071126063554.6ba2cd00@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <011701c82ed7$c622b9b0$2ce3494b@hsd1.mn.comcast.net>
	<20071126063554.6ba2cd00@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <20071126074430.30925891@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:35:54 -0600
Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:

<snip>

> I have everything ready to go - I sent you an email a couple days
> ago but haven't received a reply yet.

Sorry - at 6:30 AM I didn't mean to reply to the list.  :/

Josh


From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 12:50:13 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:50:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Firewall and Antivirus
In-Reply-To: <474AC197.7090609@comcast.net>
References: <474AC197.7090609@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020711261050y49cd2335p89f91301aecba48@mail.gmail.com>

Depends on how you have your network setup. Is your cable modem
connected directly to your computer or do you have a router plugged
into your cable modem?

If you don't have a router, why not? For a home user $50-75 for a NAT
router is a worthwhile security investment. (Linksys, Netgear,
whatever...)

If you're plugged directly into your cable modem, you definitely want
to learn about Linux firewalls. You'll also want to shut down
unnecessary services that you may have running on Linux (and Windows).
Shutting down services in Linux is distribution dependent, and you
didn't mention a distribution.

The Linux firewall is all about iptables.

There are plenty of tools for quickly setting up an iptables firewall.
Firestarter, firebuilder, Lokkit, KMyFirewall, others...


You could also read up on various howtos.
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Firewall-HOWTO.html

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From chewie at wookimus.net  Mon Nov 26 14:41:38 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:41:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Firewall and Antivirus
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020711261050y49cd2335p89f91301aecba48@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <474AC197.7090609@comcast.net>
	<e3a54b020711261050y49cd2335p89f91301aecba48@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12048.1196109698@skuld.wookimus.net>

The HOWTO that Andy quoted is very much out-of-date.  You would do
better to go to http://www.netfilter.org/documentation/ and read the
"Linux 2.4 Filtering HOWTO".  The site is pretty slow right now, but the
document is mirrored elsewhere.  It is written by Rusty Russel, the guy
who first wrote the 2.4 filtering framework.  The tool you need is
called iptables.  It is most likely packaged separately on your
distribution of choice.  Another nice tool to have is iproute2, though
you don't need it.  It exposes some of the more advanced features of
Linux advanced routing.  ifconfig is sufficient.

Viruses...  Well, you don't have a whole lot to worry about, but
clamav's "clamscan" is the program you want.  If you're interested in
setting up smtp proxies, look at clamsmtp, which can be set up
transparently for SMTP connections or as a proxy through your smtp
server.  There are a number of plugins you can use with Thunderbird or
your favorite imap/pop downloader to feed it through clamscan.  In fact,
the Firefox extension "Download Statusbar" has an optional virus
scanner that you can specify in the preferences.

Real-time, live-filesystem scanning is possible, but certainly an
advanced topic.  Generally, it's not needed.  It is sufficient to cron a
filesystem scan.  In fact, you could probably script up a find script to
only scan newer files.

Good luck!

Chad


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 27 12:27:11 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:27:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs
Message-ID: <449367.36252.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Another way to get experience is to volunteer to develop, or test Linux and it's applications.  If you make enough of a contribution, you will get your name in the contributors list and that's a great, and easily verifiable bullet item for your resume.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


----- Original Message ----
From: Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:18:37 AM
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Jobs

 Hello all,

Last week I posted with a question about how I can find a Linux job without documented experience, and where I might look for formal Linux training.  I am eager to start a career in Linux.  If you have any ideas or suggestions where I might find an opening, or how I can get "experience", please let me know. 

Thank you for your help!

Troy
 





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. 
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071127/6019ede5/attachment.htm 

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Nov 27 17:27:48 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:27:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

I want to buy a PC from a local vendor such as General Nanosystems and I 
want to install Ubuntu on it.  One thing I'm concerned about is that I get 
a system that is Linux friendly enough that Ubuntu can automatically deal 
with most driver issues.  I'll check that the video card has good Linux 
drivers.  I looked for a web page and found some links that led nowhere 
and pages that didn't inspire much confidence -- can you recommend a good 
hardware compatibility page?

Do DVD burners always work, or are there some to avoid?

What's a good video card for a Linux system? (no gaming, just ordinary 
scientific computing, possibly two monitors, DVI)

The other concerns would be sound card and NIC -- usually both built into 
the mobo these days.  We wouldn't use the modem.

Best,
Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Nov 27 17:29:05 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:29:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271728360.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Mike Miller wrote:

> I want to buy a PC from a local vendor such as General Nanosystems and I 
> want to install Ubuntu on it.

I forgot to add that I would like tips on local vendors, if you have any 
recommendations.

Mike


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Tue Nov 27 18:26:28 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:26:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271728360.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271728360.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <474CB5B4.3030901@umn.edu>

For video cards, stay away from the new ones unless you want to wait a 
while for somewhat complete support when ATI or nVidia get around to 
making good drivers. Everything else will be supported right out of the 
box.

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>   
>> I want to buy a PC from a local vendor such as General Nanosystems and I 
>> want to install Ubuntu on it.
>>     
>
> I forgot to add that I would like tips on local vendors, if you have any 
> recommendations.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From florin at iucha.net  Tue Nov 27 18:55:46 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:55:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 05:27:48PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> Do DVD burners always work, or are there some to avoid?

They always work.  LG had some problems in the past, but now whatever
you get it it will work fine.

> What's a good video card for a Linux system? (no gaming, just ordinary 
> scientific computing, possibly two monitors, DVI)

Any NVIDIA should do decent 2D, with the free driver.  A free driver
for ATI 2xxx series is in the works, but will be a year before it
shows up in a stable distribution.

> The other concerns would be sound card and NIC -- usually both built into 
> the mobo these days.  We wouldn't use the modem.

They will work fine as well.   If the network does not work, return
the board ;)

Without a budget it's hard to give sound advice, but I'll venture
some.  For the middle of the road configuration, I would get a
board with the Intel P35 chipset and built-in Intel HD audio +
Gigabit LAN, then stick as much RAM and CPU into it as you can.
Depending on what you plan to do, the Intel Q6600 is really cheap
($270).

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071127/cda6daaa/attachment.pgp 

From josh at tcbug.org  Tue Nov 27 19:13:42 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:13:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>

On Tuesday 27 November 2007 06:55:46 pm Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 05:27:48PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> > Do DVD burners always work, or are there some to avoid?
>
> They always work.  LG had some problems in the past, but now whatever
> you get it it will work fine.
>
> > What's a good video card for a Linux system? (no gaming, just ordinary
> > scientific computing, possibly two monitors, DVI)
>
> Any NVIDIA should do decent 2D, with the free driver.  A free driver
> for ATI 2xxx series is in the works, but will be a year before it
> shows up in a stable distribution.
>
> > The other concerns would be sound card and NIC -- usually both built into
> > the mobo these days.  We wouldn't use the modem.
>
> They will work fine as well.   If the network does not work, return
> the board ;)
>
> Without a budget it's hard to give sound advice, but I'll venture
> some.  For the middle of the road configuration, I would get a
> board with the Intel P35 chipset and built-in Intel HD audio +
> Gigabit LAN, then stick as much RAM and CPU into it as you can.
> Depending on what you plan to do, the Intel Q6600 is really cheap
> ($270).
>
> Cheers,
> florin

Just as a heads up....intel has released another round of gig-E NICs recently 
(eg last 2-3 months) that require a new version of their driver.....Unless 
you're willing to run a fairly recent kernel they don't work out of the box.

In particular I've gotten Intel DP35DPM motherboards and DG33BUC motherboards 
with NICs that don't work with 2.6.18 and 2.6.19 kernels, which appear to be 
pretty common in a lot of the popular distributions.  I believe the latest 
e1000 driver is available in 2.6.22 and on which seems to work with 
everything I've run across.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5A8C 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 187 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071127/a305c2a3/attachment.pgp 

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Nov 27 19:33:18 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:33:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net> <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271930260.6837@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> In particular I've gotten Intel DP35DPM motherboards and DG33BUC 
> motherboards with NICs that don't work with 2.6.18 and 2.6.19 kernels, 
> which appear to be pretty common in a lot of the popular distributions. 
> I believe the latest e1000 driver is available in 2.6.22 and on which 
> seems to work with everything I've run across.


If I install the latest Ubuntu, will that have 2.6.22 kernel?

Oh...

http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe1

Looks like it's 2.6.22-6.13 (2.6.22-rc3-based), so I guess I'd be OK 
running that on any of the hardware you've tried?

Mike


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Tue Nov 27 19:57:01 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:57:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net> <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0711271956320.19437@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:
> Just as a heads up....intel has released another round of gig-E NICs 
> recently (eg last 2-3 months) that require a new version of their 
> driver.....Unless you're willing to run a fairly recent kernel they 
> don't work out of the box.

Also be sure to do a quick Google search for whichever Intel chipset is on 
the machine - some of the less expensive chipsets don't support jumbo 
frames on gig.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Nov 27 20:20:03 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:20:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271930260.6837@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net>
	<200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271930260.6837@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20071128022003.GS4456@iucha.net>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 07:33:18PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:
>
>> In particular I've gotten Intel DP35DPM motherboards and DG33BUC 
>> motherboards with NICs that don't work with 2.6.18 and 2.6.19 kernels, 
>> which appear to be pretty common in a lot of the popular distributions. I 
>> believe the latest e1000 driver is available in 2.6.22 and on which seems 
>> to work with everything I've run across.
>
>
> If I install the latest Ubuntu, will that have 2.6.22 kernel?
>
> Oh...
>
> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe1

Why not get the 7.10 release?  http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/7.10/

> Looks like it's 2.6.22-6.13 (2.6.22-rc3-based), so I guess I'd be OK 
> running that on any of the hardware you've tried?

Ubuntu 7.10 kernel is based on 2.6.22.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071127/24953bd0/attachment.pgp 

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov 28 00:24:13 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:24:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <20071128022003.GS4456@iucha.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net> <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271930260.6837@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128022003.GS4456@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711280021240.16856@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:

>> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe1
>
> Why not get the 7.10 release?  http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/7.10/
>
>> Looks like it's 2.6.22-6.13 (2.6.22-rc3-based), so I guess I'd be OK
>> running that on any of the hardware you've tried?
>
> Ubuntu 7.10 kernel is based on 2.6.22.


I'm not sure I understand your point.  The web page I sent the URL for was 
saying what the kernel would be in 7.10, right?  It was about an alpha 
release of 7.10.  The web page you sent doesn't say anything about the 
kernel version.  I was assuming that the kernel in the final release was 
at least as advanced as the one in the alpha release.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov 28 00:27:50 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:27:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711280021240.16856@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net> <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271930260.6837@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128022003.GS4456@iucha.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711280021240.16856@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711280025120.16856@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
>
>>> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe1
>> 
>> Why not get the 7.10 release?  http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/7.10/
>> 
>>> Looks like it's 2.6.22-6.13 (2.6.22-rc3-based), so I guess I'd be OK
>>> running that on any of the hardware you've tried?
>> 
>> Ubuntu 7.10 kernel is based on 2.6.22.
>
>
> I'm not sure I understand your point.  The web page I sent the URL for 
> was saying what the kernel would be in 7.10, right?  It was about an 
> alpha release of 7.10.  The web page you sent doesn't say anything about 
> the kernel version.  I was assuming that the kernel in the final release 
> was at least as advanced as the one in the alpha release.


Maybe you were just directing me to the UMN download site.   That's a good 
link to have.  I already downloaded the CD a few weeks ago, probably from 
that site.

By the way, I've used BitTorrent and I didn't think it was a great system 
because you can end up waiting a long time for some missing piece of the 
file.  In fact, I think there is no guarantee that you will ever receive 
the entire file.

Mike


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Nov 28 07:39:40 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:39:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] video streaming solution
Message-ID: <4791.10.10.1.1.1196257180.squirrel@lctn.org>

I am looking for an easy, open source, streaming solution that is cross
platform, supports time markers for start and stop times, and is made for
on demand, or live video. Presently, we use WMS for our church services. I
am able to create a single .wmv file and create several asx links for
different start points and durations. I am looking for something that
supports an embedded player, so users do not have to choose a player to
view our stream. I want to include links within, or next to the embedded
player for different segments of the video file. I also want to stick with
using a single video file, rather than dicing it up for every start and
stop point. I have spent a good amount of time looking at vlc, but it does
not seem to meet the need.

Anyone know of a solution with good documentation for this?


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Nov 28 07:40:41 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:40:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711280021240.16856@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net>
	<200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271930260.6837@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128022003.GS4456@iucha.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711280021240.16856@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20071128134041.GU4456@iucha.net>

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 12:24:13AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
>
>>> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe1
>>
>> Why not get the 7.10 release?  http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/7.10/
>>
>>> Looks like it's 2.6.22-6.13 (2.6.22-rc3-based), so I guess I'd be OK
>>> running that on any of the hardware you've tried?
>>
>> Ubuntu 7.10 kernel is based on 2.6.22.
>
>
> I'm not sure I understand your point.

My point is that you don't use 'testing', or 'alpha' releases unless
you really know what you are doing.

>                                       The web page I sent the URL for was 
> saying what the kernel would be in 7.10, right?

Not necessarily;  read your own next statement.

>                                                 It was about an alpha 
> release of 7.10.

Not everything that is in an alpha will be in the final.

>                   The web page you sent doesn't say anything about the 
> kernel version.

It does not.  My message did tell you what you needed to know: that
7.10 includes a 2.6.22-based kernel and it gave you a download site
that is probably a mile away from your office.

>                  I was assuming that the kernel in the final release was at 
> least as advanced as the one in the alpha release.

Not necessarily.  There purpose of an alpha, beta, etc. is to evaluate
the stability of a collection of software.  If the kernel had major
problems that were not solved before the release, it is possible they
would have rolled back the version, because Ubuntu has time-based
releases.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071128/cc1e2398/attachment.pgp 

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov 28 10:15:37 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:15:37 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] buying Linux PC from local vendor
In-Reply-To: <20071128134041.GU4456@iucha.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271704110.21230@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128005546.GR4456@iucha.net> <200711271913.49300.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711271930260.6837@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128022003.GS4456@iucha.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0711280021240.16856@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071128134041.GU4456@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711281014590.22436@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:

>> I was assuming that the kernel in the final release was at least as 
>> advanced as the one in the alpha release.
>
> Not necessarily.  There purpose of an alpha, beta, etc. is to evaluate 
> the stability of a collection of software.  If the kernel had major 
> problems that were not solved before the release, it is possible they 
> would have rolled back the version, because Ubuntu has time-based 
> releases.


Good point.  Thanks.

Mike


From mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com  Wed Nov 28 17:04:31 2007
From: mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com (Mad Marvin Moonshadow)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:04:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
Message-ID: <1196291071.8563.1.camel@localhost>

Any one know of any software that I can do the blue screen trick with a
web cam?



From samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com  Wed Nov 28 17:09:11 2007
From: samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com (Samir M. Nassar)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:09:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
In-Reply-To: <1196291071.8563.1.camel@localhost>
References: <1196291071.8563.1.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <200711281709.11817.samir.nassar+tclug@steamedpenguin.com>

On Wednesday 28 November 2007, Mad Marvin Moonshadow wrote:
> Any one know of any software that I can do the blue screen trick with a
> web cam?

Unless you are sure that everyone knows what you are talking about it is 
generally a better tactic to give people some context.

-- 
Samir M. Nassar
samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Nov 28 17:34:39 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:34:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200711282334.lASNYdA22689@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: KMV switch

Free for nothing: Aluratek 2 port PS/2 KMV switch.  Can't handle a wireless mouse, otherwise works fine.

Damn near free: 1GB iAudio U2.  Awesome, barely used, plays FLAC, OGG, MP3.  Reminds me of an ex, I want it gone.  Bought for $80, yours for $35.

Seller Email address: TeeAhr1 at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From markdeb.browne at comcast.net  Wed Nov 28 17:40:21 2007
From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (markdeb.browne at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:40:21 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
Message-ID: <112820072340.5518.474DFC65000F16820000158E22007613940A0299019D0DD20D0A0B059D0E03@comcast.net>

Um, you could use this package:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306714

It is sorta on topic as the platform runs a *nix platform under all the eye-candy!

Mark Browne


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mad Marvin Moonshadow <mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com>
> Any one know of any software that I can do the blue screen trick with a
> web cam?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From dean at ripperd.com  Wed Nov 28 17:48:34 2007
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean E)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:48:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
In-Reply-To: <200711281709.11817.samir.nassar+tclug@steamedpenguin.com>
References: <1196291071.8563.1.camel@localhost>
	<200711281709.11817.samir.nassar+tclug@steamedpenguin.com>
Message-ID: <474DFE52.1030506@ripperd.com>

Samir M. Nassar wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 November 2007, Mad Marvin Moonshadow wrote:
>> Any one know of any software that I can do the blue screen trick with a
>> web cam?
> 
> Unless you are sure that everyone knows what you are talking about it is 
> generally a better tactic to give people some context.
> 

I'm guessing he means the same thing as a green screen.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluescreen


From mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com  Wed Nov 28 18:24:15 2007
From: mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com (Mad Marvin Moonshadow)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:24:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
In-Reply-To: <112820072340.5518.474DFC65000F16820000158E22007613940A0299019D0DD20D0A0B059D0E03@comcast.net>
References: <112820072340.5518.474DFC65000F16820000158E22007613940A0299019D0DD20D0A0B059D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1196295857.8563.11.camel@localhost>

This is very close, but I need free software that runs on Linux.  It
does give a strong hint on how the software works.  What I'd like to do
is have a strip down instalation on a pentium 3 or 4 that acts like a
movie camera for making home movies staring puppets.

On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 23:40 +0000, markdeb.browne at comcast.net wrote:
> Um, you could use this package:
> 
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306714
> 
> It is sorta on topic as the platform runs a *nix platform under all the eye-candy!
> 
> Mark Browne
> 
> 
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Mad Marvin Moonshadow <mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com>
> > Any one know of any software that I can do the blue screen trick with a
> > web cam?
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 



From samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com  Wed Nov 28 18:17:29 2007
From: samir.nassar+tclug at steamedpenguin.com (Samir M. Nassar)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:17:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
In-Reply-To: <474DFE52.1030506@ripperd.com>
References: <1196291071.8563.1.camel@localhost>
	<200711281709.11817.samir.nassar+tclug@steamedpenguin.com>
	<474DFE52.1030506@ripperd.com>
Message-ID: <200711281817.29892.samir.nassar+tclug@steamedpenguin.com>

On Wednesday 28 November 2007, Dean E wrote:
> > Unless you are sure that everyone knows what you are talking about it is
> > generally a better tactic to give people some context.
>
> I'm guessing he means the same thing as a green screen.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluescreen

Hah! That is funny. Until now I read it as a request to simulate a Blue Screen 
of Death with a camera... Not that hard with Windows.

-- 
Samir M. Nassar
samir.nassar at steamedpenguin.com


From markdeb.browne at comcast.net  Wed Nov 28 18:44:49 2007
From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:44:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
In-Reply-To: <112820072340.5518.474DFC65000F16820000158E22007613940A0299019D0DD20D0A0B059D0E03@comcast.net>
References: <112820072340.5518.474DFC65000F16820000158E22007613940A0299019D0DD20D0A0B059D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001501c83221$0c8ce910$1302a8c0@AMD64>

Goggle is you friend.

Search for Chroma key and linux:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=chroma+key+linux&btnG=Go
ogle+Search

In the first few hits I got:
http://jcornet.free.fr/linux/chromakey.html

Following up on Cinelerra CV I get:
http://cvs.cinelerra.org/

This looks like what you are looking for.

And this looked pretty cool:
http://dxr3.sourceforge.net/em9010.html

Mark Browne


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org 
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of 
> markdeb.browne at comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:40 PM
> To: mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com; tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Blue Screen
> 
> Um, you could use this package:
> 
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306714
> 
> It is sorta on topic as the platform runs a *nix platform 
> under all the eye-candy!
> 
> Mark Browne
> 
> 
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Mad Marvin Moonshadow <mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com>
> > Any one know of any software that I can do the blue screen 
> trick with 
> > a web cam?
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov 28 19:42:07 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:42:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] syntax highlighted HTML from emacs
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711281925220.5502@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

I was just thinking to myself, wouldn't it be great if emacs could use its 
syntax highlighting of the file I am editing to store that file as a color 
HTML page?  Then I found out that it can be done:

http://fly.srk.fer.hr/~hniksic/emacs/htmlize.el

So I made a few quick examples:

http://epirh1.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/bash_profile.html
http://epirh1.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/C.html
http://epirh1.epi.umn.edu/~mbmiller/Makefile.html

It's using my emacs color scheme *exactly*.  Can (g)vi(m) do that too? 
Just curious.

It's nice that these genius programmers work for us for free!

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Nov 28 21:06:11 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 21:06:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] syntax highlighted HTML from emacs
In-Reply-To: <267822730711281811x120d402clf3981a2596b4f67c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711281925220.5502@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<267822730711281811x120d402clf3981a2596b4f67c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711282104350.5502@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Jonathon Jongsma wrote:

> On 11/28/07, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
>
>> It's using my emacs color scheme *exactly*.  Can (g)vi(m) do that too? 
>> Just curious.
>
> yes.
> :TOhtml
> or from the syntax menu: "Convert to HTML"


Very cool.  I thought it could do it.  Thanks.  gvim has very nice default 
highlighting, if I recall correctly.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Nov 28 23:46:53 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:46:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] syntax highlighted HTML from emacs
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711281925220.5502@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711281925220.5502@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20071129054652.GB4456@iucha.net>

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 07:42:07PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> It's using my emacs color scheme *exactly*.  Can (g)vi(m) do that too? 
> Just curious.

"Anything you can do / I can do better..."

In gvim, "Syntax" >> "Convert to HTML".

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071128/fbe33a77/attachment.pgp 

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Thu Nov 29 00:17:13 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:17:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] syntax highlighted HTML from emacs
In-Reply-To: <20071129054652.GB4456@iucha.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711281925220.5502@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20071129054652.GB4456@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0711290004130.27522@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 07:42:07PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> It's using my emacs color scheme *exactly*.  Can (g)vi(m) do that too? 
>> Just curious.
>
> "Anything you can do / I can do better..."
>
> In gvim, "Syntax" >> "Convert to HTML".


I wonder if it is better.  We should find a few files to convert and see 
how emacs and gvim compare.  In emacs (and probably in gvim) the result 
will depend on the user's choice of color settings, but I'd just use the 
default in emacs.

I guess this HTML-coversion feature is a plug-in in gvim and an elisp 
extension in emacs.

Mike


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Tue Nov 20 18:58:31 2007
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:58:31 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1196654705.1285.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Source host, service and network monitoring program.

NOTE the room change.

Date: Wed, Dec 12th
Time: 7:00 - 8:30 pm
University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , EE/Csci 3-111
200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455


I'd also like announce that for the January meeting, Munir Nassar will
be presenting on OpenVPN. More details about the specific date and
time will follow.


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Tue Nov 20 18:58:31 2007
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:58:31 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1197049990.1285.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem#Known_problems

    In May 2006, reports surfaced of an early Y2038 problem in the
    AOLserver software. The software would specify that a database request
    should "never" time out by specifying a timeout date one billion
    seconds in the future. One billion seconds (just over 31 years 251 days
    and 12 hours) after 21:27:28 on 12 May 2006 is beyond the 2038 cutoff
    date, so after this date, the timeout calculation overflowed and
    calculated a timeout date that was actually in the past, causing the
    software to crash.

    The Future Lies Ahead (2006-06-28).
    http://substitute.livejournal.com/1430908.html

    Shiobara, Dossy (2006-05-17). Something wrong after 2006-05-12 21:25.
    http://www.mail-archive.com/aolserver at listserv.aol.com/msg09812.html

Mike


From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Tue Nov 20 18:58:31 2007
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:58:31 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1199751500.1285.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>

Note on U.S. Bank: Fee $3.95/month for home user, $9.95-12.95/month
for business.

On Jan 7, 2008 2:12 PM, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> I'm a new convert from QuickBooks to GnuCash and I must admit I like
> it a lot.  Plus I don't have to give Intuit another f'ing penny.
>
> One nagging feature that I do not get with GnuCash is easy bank
> statement downloads which would be nice.
>
> GnuCash has a list of banks that support OFX download with
> libaqbanking here:
>
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/OFX_Direct_Connect_Bank_Settings
>
> US Bank is not listed though - has anyone succesfully downloaded bank
> statements in either gnucash / kmymoney / etc with US Bank?  I could
> call them to see if they support direct OFX connection but the
> thought of talking to one of their "support techs" and mentioning an
> acronym like OFX makes me want to take a shot of brandy.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Donovan Niesen