From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 12:53:31 2007
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G. Scott Walters)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:53:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
Message-ID: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?

Looks to be a low-cost hardware solution that packages some of the more
popular open-source, linux-based software packages and changes a monthly fee
to support it. Hardware specs are interesting:


   - Intel-compatible ultra-low power CPU
   - 512 MB RAM + 4GB flash-based local storage
   - Graphics up to 2048 x 1536 (16 million colors, 75 Hz). Hardware
   graphics and MPEG2 acceleration
   - PC-compatible ports for keyboard and mouse
   - 6 USB ports to plug-and-play all standard USB accessories
   - Broadband ready: 10/100 Mbps Ethernet built-in

This device was profiled in Forbes, and I've had a couple people ask me
about it. Here's the appropriate links:

http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1015/056.html

http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm




-- 
-
G. Scott Walters
http://www.apt518.net
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071001/5a6fc26c/attachment.htm 

From cdf123 at cdf123.net  Mon Oct  1 14:09:36 2007
From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:09:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>

G. Scott Walters wrote:
> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?

Not me.

> Looks to be a low-cost hardware solution that packages some of the more
> popular open-source, linux-based software packages and changes a monthly fee
> to support it. Hardware specs are interesting:
> 
> <snipped>
> 
> This device was profiled in Forbes, and I've had a couple people ask me
> about it. Here's the appropriate links:
> 
> http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1015/056.html
> 
> http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm

Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
while.  They look very similar to these:

http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm


From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com  Mon Oct  1 14:32:48 2007
From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:32:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <47014B60.50603@b-o-b.homelinux.com>

I have been using SQwebmail for years & like it alot.

http://www.courier-mta.org/sqwebmail/

Uses Maildir's though.

Good Luck!

Bob

Scott Raun wrote:
> I'm currently using NeoMail connecting to local POP3 mailboxes, when I'm
> not using Mutt (I VASTLY prefer using Mutt!).  I'm being forced to use
> the webmail if I want to read mail from work - they've blocked ssh &
> telnet from reaching the outside world.  I'm running into some ...
> limitations of NeoMail - it doesn't thread, it doesn't have a mass 'mark
> read' function that I can find.
> 
> So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail package?  As
> I said, I'm currently using POP3, but could be convinced to change to
> IMAP.  I'm currently running a Debian box - I can't get at it right this
> moment to tell if it's etch or lenny.  Requirements are some degree of
> threading (preferably using the reply-to-message-id, but I'll take by
> subject), and mass action (at least mark read and move to another
> folder).  I'd like something that used mboxes.
> 
> Note: use gmail/your web-mail provider of choice is NOT an option - I
> want my e-mail on my storage, not someone else's!
> 



From strayf at freeshell.org  Mon Oct  1 20:03:36 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 20:03:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>

Chris Frederick wrote:
> G. Scott Walters wrote:
>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> [...]

> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
> while.  They look very similar to these:
> 
> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> 
>>From the Zonbu site:
> 
> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
> 
> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two years
> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if you
> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
> 
> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> 
>>From their site:
> 
> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing list.  ;-)
> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
> just sounds scary to me.
> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
> an extra $60 a year.
> 
> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> required membership service.
> 
> ymmv,
> Chris Frederick

It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.

-Steve


From sraun at fireopal.org  Mon Oct  1 20:03:33 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:03:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20071001015215.GG50703@therub.org>
References: <E1Ic7Yt-0000fY-Fe@fireagate.fireopal.org>
	<20071001015215.GG50703@therub.org>
Message-ID: <20071002010333.GD28524@fireopal.org>

On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 08:52:15PM -0500, Dan Rue wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 05:46:55PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote:
> > Brian Dunnette replied:
> > > Why not just install a web-based terminal (like ajaxterm --
> > > http://antony.lesuisse.org/qweb/trac/wiki/AjaxTerm), and continue 
> > > using Mutt?
> > 
> > Because I didn't know about AjaxTerm (or any equivalents) before?  I
> > _like_ that idea - I'll check it out!  And there are even Debian
> > packages for it!
> 
> Why not just run SSH on an allowed port (maybe you're not already using
> 443?)

I'm going to give that a try first - depending on exactly how they're
handling SSL through the firewall, I'm told it might work.  The more I
consider it, the more dubious I get - SSL goes through a proxy that
has its own certificates and does man-in-the-middle stuff.

> Also - fwiw, I'm planning on switching from squirrelmail to roundcube
> PDQ.

Thanks for the recommendation!

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From josh at joshwelch.com  Tue Oct  2 07:27:37 2007
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:27:37 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <20071002122737.3zr8o4qio0coo84o@joshwelch.com>

Quoting Chris Frederick <cdf123 at cdf123.net>:

> G. Scott Walters wrote:
>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
>
> Not me.
>
>> Looks to be a low-cost hardware solution that packages some of the more
>> popular open-source, linux-based software packages and changes a monthly fee
>> to support it. Hardware specs are interesting:
>>
>> <snipped>
>>
>> This device was profiled in Forbes, and I've had a couple people ask me
>> about it. Here's the appropriate links:
>>
>> http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/1015/056.html
>>
>> http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm
>
> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
> while.  They look very similar to these:
>
> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
>
>> From the Zonbu site:
>
> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
>
> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two years
> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if you
> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
>
> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
>
>> From their site:
>
> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing list.  ;-)
> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
> just sounds scary to me.
> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
> an extra $60 a year.
>
> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> required membership service.
>
> ymmv,
> Chris Frederick
>
I'm guessing that the questions about  this device aren't coming from  
the technically savvy folks. This looks to be pretty much a managed PC  
service, a concept which I am a huge fan of for most users. Most users  
run Windows. They have a tendency to not run Windows Updates, to not  
have a firewall and to click on shiny executables that get emailed to  
them. When MS tries to change the defaults to their OS to make it more  
secure they do it poorly and it becomes such a pain that folks just  
turn the security features off.
Now here we have a Linux based device, ships with auto updates enabled  
(and hopefully the users can't turn them off), probably a sane set of  
firewall rules that enables productivity while keeping the threat  
profile down and a native resistance to all the Windows based malware.
You can make lots of arguments about why these aren't going to be  
successful, the inability to click on those shiny executables may be  
one of them, but I love the concept. I wouldn't buy one, but I like  
taking things apart and making them work. That's part of the fun of  
computing for me (and most of you reading this I assume). For most  
people, however, they couldn't care less. A computer is just another  
appliance that they use to do certain things and they are way too  
complicated considering the simplicity of most of the tasks they want  
to do. I think that a business model like this will take off  
eventually as computers get more ubiquitous and there gets to be a  
tipping point of non-technical folks with computers. Of course, that  
could just be the business classes going to my head.

Josh


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From slushpupie at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 08:37:37 2007
From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:37:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <ace41e70710020637y2fefda7xdb633e15237bf0a@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/07, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:
> So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail package?

I was always disapointed at how bloated squirrelmail has gotten, and
started using a lighter weight solution called Hastymail
(http://hastymail.sf.net) After some time, I even became one of the
developers for the project.  IMAP only, but if you install dovecot you
can use Maildir or mbox with both imap and pop3 (debian packages are
easy to set up too)

Hastymail also has a simplified interface for use on cell phones/pda's
with smaller screens, which has been handy for me.


-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Oct  2 09:09:04 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:09:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
	<470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>

I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan" and wipe 
it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity hardware and 
many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times the 
size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just for the 
case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally friendly 
PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind running a 
little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a mythfrontend?

I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro by hook 
or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good project for a 
while.

--j

Steve Cayford wrote:
> Chris Frederick wrote:
>   
>> G. Scott Walters wrote:
>>     
>>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
>>>       
>> [...]
>>     
>
>   
>> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
>> while.  They look very similar to these:
>>
>> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
>>
>> >From the Zonbu site:
>>
>> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
>>
>> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two years
>> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if you
>> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
>> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
>> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
>>
>> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
>> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
>>
>> >From their site:
>>
>> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
>> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
>> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing list.  ;-)
>> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
>> just sounds scary to me.
>> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
>> an extra $60 a year.
>>
>> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
>> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
>> required membership service.
>>
>> ymmv,
>> Chris Frederick
>>     
>
> It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
> like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
>
> -Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org  Tue Oct  2 13:23:20 2007
From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:23:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20071002010333.GD28524@fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic7Yt-0000fY-Fe@fireagate.fireopal.org>	<20071001015215.GG50703@therub.org>
	<20071002010333.GD28524@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <47028C98.4060605@tomobiki.dyndns.org>

Scott Raun wrote:
> I'm going to give that a try first - depending on exactly how they're
> handling SSL through the firewall, I'm told it might work.  The more I
> consider it, the more dubious I get - SSL goes through a proxy that
> has its own certificates and does man-in-the-middle stuff.


I've been accessing my home using putty to a free shell account. Then forwarding a second putty through the first ssh to my home. The first putty goes through a proxy that limits 
the ports I can connect to. So the free shell account is one that has a port 443 ssh server. I then tunnel ssh thru the free shell account to my home. I can then uses tunnels on 
the second ssh session to connect to services and machines in my home network.

Joseph



From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 13:56:36 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 13:56:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi network?
Message-ID: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>

Hello,

I'm looking for a "one size fits all" router for my home network.  I
need something that can firewall between the four zones: WAN, DMZ,
local and Wi-Fi.  I heard that WRT54g* can do it, but I had problems
when plugging it into my gigabit switch - it seemed to increase the
latency of pings and data transfers.

Anyway, I see that Linksys has something that might fit the bill:
WRVS4400N [1].  Has anybody played with it?  Pros?  Cons?  Any
similar devices out there?

Yes, I know that I can build my firewall from a 486 and four NICs, but
I'd rather not have the big box and the extra power consumption.  I
know about soekris but the motherboard alone is more expensive than
the Linksys.  The routerboard guys might have a more affordable combo
(RB/153 + 18POW + CA/153 + R52 + AC/SWI= 119 + 9 + 19 + 49 + 15 = $211)
but that still means that I need a separate gigabit switch.

Thanks,
florin

[1] http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&cid=1154659754557

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/72e60685/attachment.pgp 

From jwo at umn.edu  Tue Oct  2 14:17:59 2007
From: jwo at umn.edu (Jonathan Osborne)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:17:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>

Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed 
reviews on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/B000H97UC0


Jonathan Osborne
WHRE Tech Coordinator
p: 612.624.1217
e: jwo at umn.edu

Florin Iucha said the following on 10/02/2007 13.56
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking for a "one size fits all" router for my home network.  I
> need something that can firewall between the four zones: WAN, DMZ,
> local and Wi-Fi.  I heard that WRT54g* can do it, but I had problems
> when plugging it into my gigabit switch - it seemed to increase the
> latency of pings and data transfers.
> 
> Anyway, I see that Linksys has something that might fit the bill:
> WRVS4400N [1].  Has anybody played with it?  Pros?  Cons?  Any
> similar devices out there?
> 
> Yes, I know that I can build my firewall from a 486 and four NICs, but
> I'd rather not have the big box and the extra power consumption.  I
> know about soekris but the motherboard alone is more expensive than
> the Linksys.  The routerboard guys might have a more affordable combo
> (RB/153 + 18POW + CA/153 + R52 + AC/SWI= 119 + 9 + 19 + 49 + 15 = $211)
> but that still means that I need a separate gigabit switch.
> 
> Thanks,
> florin
> 
> [1] http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&cid=1154659754557


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Oct  2 14:20:20 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:20:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net> <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
	<47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0710021220i499efe75wac3636fd6a927d7f@mail.gmail.com>

So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may be the exact
platform I've been looking for to use for a small quiet Mythfrontend
system.  I'll have to figure out some sort of USB remote, and my TV does
actually have a VGA input so I should be good there.  My other options were
a repurposed MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
Processor, etc but with a remote port).

This is the response from Zonbu:

"Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware. While we do
not and cannot officially support running alternate OSes on the Zonbu
hardware, several users have reported successfully installing other OSes (
e.g. Ubuntu Linux) on the hardware without any problems"

Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.

--j

On 10/2/07, J <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>
> I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan" and wipe
> it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity hardware and
> many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times the
> size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just for the
> case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally friendly
> PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind running a
> little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a
> mythfrontend?
>
> I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro by hook
> or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good project for a
> while.
>
> --j
>
> Steve Cayford wrote:
> > Chris Frederick wrote:
> >
> >> G. Scott Walters wrote:
> >>
> >>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> >>>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >
> >
> >> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for a
> >> while.  They look very similar to these:
> >>
> >> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> >>
> >> >From the Zonbu site:
> >>
> >> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
> >>
> >> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two
> years
> >> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that if
> you
> >> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access to
> >> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option, but
> >> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with that.
> >>
> >> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see much
> >> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> >>
> >> >From their site:
> >>
> >> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> >> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> >> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing
> list.  ;-)
> >> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" - That
> >> just sounds scary to me.
> >> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but that's
> >> an extra $60 a year.
> >>
> >> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd rather
> >> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> >> required membership service.
> >>
> >> ymmv,
> >> Chris Frederick
> >>
> >
> > It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
> > like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> > grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> > some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> > system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> > services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/110bf1a2/attachment.htm 

From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 14:35:44 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:35:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 02:17:59PM -0500, Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed 
> reviews on amazon:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/B000H97UC0

Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
networks.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/60d84ca5/attachment.pgp 

From auditodd at comcast.net  Tue Oct  2 14:51:22 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:51:22 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
Message-ID: <100220071951.25657.4702A13A000DEFB10000643922028887440B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

Stupid Comcast web email won't populate your previous message.....

Anyway, I think you would be better off going the PC route.
Smoothwall v3.0 will support you just fine, and you can always yank a micro-ATX board out of a large case and drop it into something smaller.

I'm using this case for my Smoothwall with an old HP VL400 motherboard inside:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811190005

1Gig processor with 512Meg of RAM and an on-board 3Com NIC with two extra 3Com NICs.
Internal, external, and DMZ. Works great.

I use a Netgear wireless router set up as an access point (static IP, DHCP turned off) for wireless.

--
==========
Todd Young


From sss.lists at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:03:24 2007
From: sss.lists at gmail.com (Subramanya Sastry)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:03:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive with
	mechanical failure
Message-ID: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...

There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while this
is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions
for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.

It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...

Thanks,
Subbu.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/94639d33/attachment.htm 

From stuff at cb1inc.com  Tue Oct  2 17:16:53 2007
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:16:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
 with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4702C355.5050104@cb1inc.com>

Lucky for you Kroll Ontrack is located in Eden Prairie and they are data
recovery specialists.  Not lucky for you because they are not cheap. 
Last time I heard they charge based on the amount of data they recover. 
In the event of a hardware failure, one of their strategies is to track
down the same drive model and swap the mechanical components.

There web address is: http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com.  If you do use
them, I'd be curious how they are?  Expensive?  Accurately?  Timely?

-Chris


Subramanya Sastry wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it
> seems like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I
> had used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ...
> while this is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had
> any suggestions for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure
> ... or what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in
> the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/ec098add/attachment-0001.htm 

From sss.lists at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:31:11 2007
From: sss.lists at gmail.com (Subramanya Sastry)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:31:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
	with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <4702C355.5050104@cb1inc.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
	<4702C355.5050104@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>

I called them a few minutes back.  They charge $100 for evaluation and then
give me a list of all files and folders that they recover ... I was told
that the mechanical failure recovery costs anywhere between $900 - $1900 ...
So, I decided it is not worth it.

Thanks for the tip regarding swapping mechanical components ... I wonder how
hard/easy that is ... I might be willing to give it a try if I could lay my
hand on a spare drive ..

Subbu.

On 10/2/07, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com> wrote:
>
>  Lucky for you Kroll Ontrack is located in Eden Prairie and they are data
> recovery specialists.  Not lucky for you because they are not cheap.  Last
> time I heard they charge based on the amount of data they recover.  In the
> event of a hardware failure, one of their strategies is to track down the
> same drive model and swap the mechanical components.
>
> There web address is: http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com.  If you do use
> them, I'd be curious how they are?  Expensive?  Accurately?  Timely?
>
> -Chris
>
>
> Subramanya Sastry wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while this
> is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions
> for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
> cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/9932ff84/attachment.htm 

From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 17:36:47 2007
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:36:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
	with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5bab831e0710021536n66bd083ey1bd3c89138b243d8@mail.gmail.com>

Ontrack's software is pretty good, but I had a user whos laptop was
formatted and then reinstalled with XP who didn't keep his files on the
server as he was supposed to. The user noticed immeadiately. (hey where did
my unsupported and non-backed up Goldmine CRM go?) My company spent 1500
dollars and Ontrack was unable to recover anything that Ontrack's "Easy
Recovery Pro" couldn't. Then again this wasn't a hardware failure so that
may be very different.

Best of luck,

Chris



On 10/2/07, Subramanya Sastry <sss.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while this
> is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions
> for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
> cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
"The gun... insures that the people are the equal of their government
whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the
governed."

Ronald Reagan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/06ed8082/attachment.htm 

From tclug at beitsahour.net  Tue Oct  2 16:50:20 2007
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:50:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/2/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 02:17:59PM -0500, Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> > Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed
> > reviews on amazon:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/B000H97UC0
>
> Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
> that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
> networks.

for what you want to do you need a real router, not some garbage
consumer product. So find yourself a small case, mobo and some GigE
network cards that fit in there.

There are several wireless chipsets out there that support master
mode, get a card with one of those chipsets. (i prefer the hostap
hards, but they only support 802.11b)

i myself have a system with 4 network cards, 3 wired and a wireless,
works great for me, does all i need and then some, is it ugly? yes but
it is ugly in some corner where not even my girlfriend can complain
about it. sitting there quietly (for the most part, the K6 has a
tendency to overheat and beep at me every once in a while) passing
bits back and force.

It does have very strict separation between the network cards, but
when i want or need to i can let the wireless network ssh to a box on
the dmz. or if i need a public address when bittorrenting i can give
one of those to my laptop on my wireless network. No port forwarding
here!

very flexible, very cheap, very linux.

ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 18:04:42 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:04:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?

Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
us a few months ago.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/597e2121/attachment.pgp 

From thecubic at thecubic.net  Tue Oct  2 18:12:38 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:12:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drive
 with mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021503o17503c9cje4ec8cf67f8e9e94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28011.163.231.6.85.1191366758.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>

If you toss it in the freezer for a while (protect it from moisture...),
you may be able to get some data off of it.  There are some HOWTOs about
that on the web.  I would run a USB and power cable inside the freezer and
use a laptop to get the data off.

-Dave

> Hi folks,
>
> I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
>
> There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while
> this
> is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any
> suggestions
> for recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or what it might
> cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.
>
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 18:12:11 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:12:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> > Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
> > that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
> > networks.
> 
> for what you want to do you need a real router, not some garbage
> consumer product. So find yourself a small case, mobo and some GigE
> network cards that fit in there.

Nobody reads my whole message.  I want a real router, but not a
REAL R*O*U*T*E*R.  I just want the smallest physical and power-wise
box that will do wifi/lan/dmz/wan firewall separations.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/0aa763a3/attachment.pgp 

From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:06:56 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:06:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710021706n1535d896yea574f089983b9aa@mail.gmail.com>

Have you looked into Firebox, Astro, or similar devices that occupy
the space between Linksys and Cisco...

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Tue Oct  2 19:05:55 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:05:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and
	separate	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<47029967.7070008@umn.edu>	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>

Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
>   
>> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
>> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
>>     
>
> Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
> us a few months ago.
>
> florin
>
>
>   

Count me in for iptables and OpenVPN, just don't make the meeting on a 
Wednesday night.


From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 19:22:43 2007
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:22:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002230442.GX8174@iucha.net> <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <5bab831e0710021722y625dafag5d53bd55b6c97988@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't followed this thread, but I used to work for
www.apigroupinc.comand they kept well over 150 offices connected with
OpenVPN and Shorewall..
both probably the most impressive OSF software I've had the opportunity  to
use.  Today I use it for roadwarriors at my new company..  good stuff.


On 10/2/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> >
> >> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> >> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
> >>
> >
> > Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
> > us a few months ago.
> >
> > florin
> >
> >
> >
>
> Count me in for iptables and OpenVPN, just don't make the meeting on a
> Wednesday night.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
"The gun... insures that the people are the equal of their government
whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the
governed."

Ronald Reagan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/60f09511/attachment.htm 

From tclug at natecarlson.com  Tue Oct  2 20:11:42 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 20:11:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
 network?
In-Reply-To: <20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0710022011330.7523@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
> Nobody reads my whole message.  I want a real router, but not a REAL 
> R*O*U*T*E*R.  I just want the smallest physical and power-wise box that 
> will do wifi/lan/dmz/wan firewall separations.

Get something that you can run dd-wrt on?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Oct  2 19:24:17 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:24:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <d3cf65830710021434g3c08651aqc2c72d5c84c81cda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net> <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
	<47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>
	<38aa5b6a0710021220i499efe75wac3636fd6a927d7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3cf65830710021434g3c08651aqc2c72d5c84c81cda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>

Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm as apparently they bought
Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy 3 get one free,
anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the fact that it doesn't
have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out at 128MB of memory thats a
pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the hard drive for a larger one and
upgrade the memory too if you want.  Plus the Norhtek sounds like it uses an
AMD chip so there may be better compatibility than the unknown one in the
Zonbu.  Plus the Zonbu is theoretically "greener".

But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other super
small cheap systems out there?

--j

On 10/2/07, Spence Morris <spence.morris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of Linux tacked
> on.
> The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove itself>
> There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re again,
> Norhtek-
> based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units here- At
> last look,
> he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas about use.
> Check out Norhtek.com before investing in Zonbu.
>
> On 10/2/07, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>
> > So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may be the
> > exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small quiet Mythfrontend
> > system.  I'll have to figure out some sort of USB remote, and my TV does
> > actually have a VGA input so I should be good there.  My other options were
> > a repurposed MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
> > Processor, etc but with a remote port).
> >
> > This is the response from Zonbu:
> >
> > "Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware. While we
> > do not and cannot officially support running alternate OSes on the Zonbu
> > hardware, several users have reported successfully installing other OSes (
> > e.g. Ubuntu Linux) on the hardware without any problems"
> >
> > Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.
> >
> > --j
> >
> > On 10/2/07, J <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan" and wipe
> > >
> > > it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity hardware
> > > and
> > > many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times the
> > > size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just for the
> > > case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally friendly
> > > PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind running a
> > > little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a
> > > mythfrontend?
> > >
> > > I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro by hook
> > > or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good project for
> > > a
> > > while.
> > >
> > > --j
> > >
> > > Steve Cayford wrote:
> > > > Chris Frederick wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> G. Scott Walters wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> > > >>>
> > > >> [...]
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor PCs for
> > > a
> > > >> while.  They look very similar to these:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> >From the Zonbu site:
> > > >>
> > > >> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years = $412.95
> > > >>
> > > >> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80 after two
> > > years
> > > >> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns that
> > > if you
> > > >> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you access
> > > to
> > > >> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support option,
> > > but
> > > >> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went with
> > > that.
> > > >>
> > > >> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't see
> > > much
> > > >> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> > > >>
> > > >> >From their site:
> > > >>
> > > >> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> > > >> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have this.
> > > >> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a mailing
> > > list.  ;-)
> > > >> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no plugins)" -
> > > That
> > > >> just sounds scary to me.
> > > >> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice, but
> > > that's
> > > >> an extra $60 a year.
> > > >>
> > > >> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally I'd
> > > rather
> > > >> pay more up front for something without a huge service contract, or
> > > >> required membership service.
> > > >>
> > > >> ymmv,
> > > >> Chris Frederick
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for
> > > something
> > > > like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> > > > grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> > > > some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> > > > system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> > > > services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
> > > >
> > > > -Steve
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/46efa192/attachment.htm 

From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct  2 22:34:59 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:34:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0710022011330.7523@iron.msp.technicality.org>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <47029967.7070008@umn.edu>
	<20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071002231211.GY8174@iucha.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0710022011330.7523@iron.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <20071003033458.GZ8174@iucha.net>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 08:11:42PM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
>> Nobody reads my whole message.  I want a real router, but not a REAL 
>> R*O*U*T*E*R.  I just want the smallest physical and power-wise box that 
>> will do wifi/lan/dmz/wan firewall separations.
>
> Get something that you can run dd-wrt on?

Yes I do.  However, with stock firmware, when I connected one of the
lan ports to the gigabit switch, it appeared to slowdown the traffic
on the switch.  Yes it does not make sense, unless there is some silly
broadcast going on.  I'm not sure if that was due to the firmware I
used at the time or it was a hardware thingie.  I'll probably pick
up a Buffalo WHR-G125 since Circuit City has it for $25 after rebates
and try it first.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/a5b83ebf/attachment.pgp 

From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  2 23:27:28 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 23:27:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith
	mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Not a DIY home job.  Opening a drive should only be done in a clean room by people wearing "bunny suits".  Otherwise, microscopic
dust particles will get in and cause serious crashes almost immediately.  None of it is easy and every step requires a
super-delicate touch.. especially handling the heads to get them off the old platters and onto the new.  This is why it's
expensive..


Chuck
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Subramanya Sastry
  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:31 PM
  To: Chris Barber
  Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith mechanical failure


  I called them a few minutes back.  They charge $100 for evaluation and then give me a list of all files and folders that they
recover ... I was told that the mechanical failure recovery costs anywhere between $900 - $1900 ... So, I decided it is not worth
it.

  Thanks for the tip regarding swapping mechanical components ... I wonder how hard/easy that is ... I might be willing to give it a
try if I could lay my hand on a spare drive ..

  Subbu.


  On 10/2/07, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com> wrote:
    Lucky for you Kroll Ontrack is located in Eden Prairie and they are data recovery specialists.  Not lucky for you because they
are not cheap.  Last time I heard they charge based on the amount of data they recover.  In the event of a hardware failure, one of
their strategies is to track down the same drive model and swap the mechanical components.

    There web address is: http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com.  If you do use them, I'd be curious how they are?  Expensive?
Accurately?  Timely?

    -Chris


    Subramanya Sastry wrote:
      Hi folks,

      I just had the misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems like a mechanical failure ... horrible clicking
noises ...

      There is some data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had used this drive as a backup for data on some other
hard drive ... while this is not catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any suggestions for recovering data in the
face of mechanical failure ... or what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin cities.

      It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...

      Thanks,
      Subbu.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071002/937b58af/attachment-0001.htm 

From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  2 23:33:14 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 23:33:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit
	andseparate	wifi	network?
In-Reply-To: <4702DCE3.805@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGEELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

A meeting at TIES would be good.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Elvedin Trnjanin
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:06 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit andseparate wifi
> network?
> 
> 
> Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 04:50:20PM -0500, Munir Nassar wrote:
> >   
> >> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> >> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
> >>     
> >
> > Yes, but _AFTER_ you do the presentation on OpenVPN that you promised
> > us a few months ago.
> >
> > florin
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> Count me in for iptables and OpenVPN, just don't make the meeting on a 
> Wednesday night.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.37/1042 - Release Date: 
> 10/1/2007 6:59 PM
> 
> 


From rudie at sihope.com  Wed Oct  3 00:18:19 2007
From: rudie at sihope.com (Kevin Hinze)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 23:18:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith
	mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20071003050739.M32954@sihope.com>

> Subramanya Sastry wrote:   
> Hi folks,
> 
> I just had the  misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it seems
> like a  mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
> 
> There is some  data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I had
> used this  drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ... while
> this is not  catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had any
> suggestions for  recovering data in the face of mechanical failure ... or
> what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the twin
> cities.  
> 
> It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...  
> 
> Thanks,
> Subbu.
>

Subbu,

There seems to be a few techniques for drive repair. There's the freezer trick
(never worked for me), and swapping the controller board. I've swapped out the
controller board on a variety of brands and sizes of hard drives. I have had
very good success with data recovery. While I am no drive expert, I have even
fixed the infamous 'click of death'. You definitely need an identical drive,
eBay is a great source. Generally you can pick up a used drive for $5 to $25.
And if the controller board fixes the problem, it sure is a lot cheaper than
Ontrack. Generally the controller boards are very simple to swap. Somewhat
self-explanatory if you stare at it long enough.

Of course, any minute you have the drive back up and running is a gift, so my
standard recommendation is to do your recovery quickly (providing your fix
worked) and pitch that drive!

Of the dozen or so I have fixed, all of them were fixed to the point of at
least 90% recovery. One friend continued to use the repaired drive for years
afterwards, against doctor's advice.

Best of luck to you.


-- 
Kevin Hinze 
------------- 
rudie at sihope.com 
rudie at rudie.net 
rudie at google.com



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 01:10:04 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 01:10:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?

Munir,

The October meeting should be either this Wed (too late), or next Wed.  I have 
a speaker lined up for Nov, but October is still open.

If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just need to 
reserve the room.  Up for it?

Jeremy

P.S. If anyone else wants to talk about something (such as the router, or 
media pc projects), that's cool too.  Let's have a call for speakers!  


On Tuesday 02 October 2007 4:50:20 pm Munir Nassar wrote:
> On 10/2/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 02:17:59PM -0500, Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> > > Looks like an interesting product, but it's gotten some very mixed
> > > reviews on amazon:
> > >
> > > http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-WRVS4400N-Wireless-N-Gigabit-Security/dp/
> > >B000H97UC0
> >
> > Hrm... it looks quite bad.  Also, from reading the user manual, it seems
> > that it does not have the strict separation between wired and wireless
> > networks.
>
> for what you want to do you need a real router, not some garbage
> consumer product. So find yourself a small case, mobo and some GigE
> network cards that fit in there.
>
> There are several wireless chipsets out there that support master
> mode, get a card with one of those chipsets. (i prefer the hostap
> hards, but they only support 802.11b)
>
> i myself have a system with 4 network cards, 3 wired and a wireless,
> works great for me, does all i need and then some, is it ugly? yes but
> it is ugly in some corner where not even my girlfriend can complain
> about it. sitting there quietly (for the most part, the K6 has a
> tendency to overheat and beep at me every once in a while) passing
> bits back and force.
>
> It does have very strict separation between the network cards, but
> when i want or need to i can let the wireless network ssh to a box on
> the dmz. or if i need a public address when bittorrenting i can give
> one of those to my laptop on my wireless network. No port forwarding
> here!
>
> very flexible, very cheap, very linux.
>
> ps, we have not had a meeting in a while, i've been thinking of giving
> a presentation on iptables, anyone interested?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 01:21:32 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 01:21:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [Off-Topic?] recovering data from a hard drivewith
	mechanical failure
In-Reply-To: <20071003050739.M32954@sihope.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710021531r384f2a88mccb7d5a22b66ebf5@mail.gmail.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGCELFCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20071003050739.M32954@sihope.com>
Message-ID: <200710030121.32821.tclug@lizakowski.com>

>I just had the  misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it
>seems like a  mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...

Have you tried smacking it?  

Some of the older drives would stick, and could be brought back to life with 
physical agitation.  I should mention that it could very easily cause more 
damage than you already have, so only try it when you have nothing else to 
lose.  i.e. Just before you trash it.

The same technique sometimes works for PC fans, CDroms, air conditioners, and 
other mechanical devices.  Or at least it can make you feel better.

Jeremy

:)

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 12:18:19 am Kevin Hinze wrote:
> > Subramanya Sastry wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I just had the  misfortune of having my hard drive crash on me ... it
> > seems like a  mechanical failure ... horrible clicking noises ...
> >
> > There is some  data on there that I haven't backed up recently, plus, I
> > had used this  drive as a backup for data on some other hard drive ...
> > while this is not  catastrophic data loss, I was wondering if folks had
> > any suggestions for  recovering data in the face of mechanical failure
> > ... or what it might cost if I paid some service for data recovery in the
> > twin cities.
> >
> > It is a ext3 file system .. though not sure that matters ...
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Subbu.
>
> Subbu,
>
> There seems to be a few techniques for drive repair. There's the freezer
> trick (never worked for me), and swapping the controller board. I've
> swapped out the controller board on a variety of brands and sizes of hard
> drives. I have had very good success with data recovery. While I am no
> drive expert, I have even fixed the infamous 'click of death'. You
> definitely need an identical drive, eBay is a great source. Generally you
> can pick up a used drive for $5 to $25. And if the controller board fixes
> the problem, it sure is a lot cheaper than Ontrack. Generally the
> controller boards are very simple to swap. Somewhat self-explanatory if you
> stare at it long enough.
>
> Of course, any minute you have the drive back up and running is a gift, so
> my standard recommendation is to do your recovery quickly (providing your
> fix worked) and pitch that drive!
>
> Of the dozen or so I have fixed, all of them were fixed to the point of at
> least 90% recovery. One friend continued to use the repaired drive for
> years afterwards, against doctor's advice.
>
> Best of luck to you.




From teeahr1 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 07:50:27 2007
From: teeahr1 at gmail.com (Pete)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 07:50:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] (Another OT hardware question) Shorted HDD
Message-ID: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>

I've got an HDD that I use as a backup-for-a-backup that seems to be shorted
out.  When I give it power, whatever box its in will not turn on, and I'm
pretty sure I toasted an enclosure.  This is all personal data, music and
such, not something I'm at all willing to put money into recovering unless
it's <$100.  Anyone have any luck with issues of this sort?

best-
p.daniels
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071003/ee38c4f9/attachment.htm 

From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com  Wed Oct  3 08:43:09 2007
From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:43:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA6B0095C@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>

That site is being blocked by my surf protection filter as being
pornography.  Their prices must be indecent!  ;-)

 

Larry

 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of J Cruit
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:24 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Zonbu

 

Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm as apparently they
bought Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy 3 get
one free, anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the fact that
it doesn't have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out at 128MB of
memory thats a pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the hard drive
for a larger one and upgrade the memory too if you want.  Plus the
Norhtek sounds like it uses an AMD chip so there may be better
compatibility than the unknown one in the Zonbu.  Plus the Zonbu is
theoretically "greener". 

But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other
super small cheap systems out there?

--j

On 10/2/07, Spence Morris <spence.morris at gmail.com> wrote:

Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of Linux
tacked on.
The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove
itself>
There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re again,
Norhtek- 
based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units here- At
last look,
he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas about use.
Check out Norhtek.com before investing in Zonbu. 

On 10/2/07, J Cruit < j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com> > wrote:

	So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may
be the exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small quiet
Mythfrontend system.  I'll have to figure out some sort of USB remote,
and my TV does actually have a VGA input so I should be good there.  My
other options were a repurposed MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$
(without memory, HD, Processor, etc but with a remote port). 
	
	This is the response from Zonbu:
	
	"Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware.
While we do not and cannot officially support running alternate OSes on
the Zonbu hardware, several users have reported successfully installing
other OSes (e.g. Ubuntu Linux) on the hardware without any problems"
	
	Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.
	
	--j

	 

	On 10/2/07, J <j at packetgod.com> wrote:

	I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service plan"
and wipe 
	it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity
hardware and
	many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10 times
the
	size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more just
for the
	case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet environmentally
friendly
	PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't mind
running a
	little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps just a
mythfrontend? 
	
	I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own distro
by hook
	or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good
project for a
	while.
	
	--j
	
	Steve Cayford wrote:
	> Chris Frederick wrote: 
	>
	>> G. Scott Walters wrote:
	>>
	>>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
	>>>
	>> [...]
	>>
	>
	>
	>> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form factor
PCs for a 
	>> while.  They look very similar to these:
	>>
	>> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm 
	>>
	>> >From the Zonbu site: 
	>>
	>> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years =
$412.95
	>>
	>> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80
after two years
	>> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy" warns
that if you 
	>> cancel the membership service, your device will not give you
access to
	>> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no support
option, but
	>> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I went
with that. 
	>>
	>> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I don't
see much
	>> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
	>>
	>> >From their site:
	>>
	>> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap. 
	>> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros have
this.
	>> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a
mailing list.  ;-)
	>> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no
plugins)" - That 
	>> just sounds scary to me.
	>> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty - Nice,
but that's
	>> an extra $60 a year.
	>>
	>> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but personally
I'd rather 
	>> pay more up front for something without a huge service
contract, or
	>> required membership service.
	>>
	>> ymmv,
	>> Chris Frederick
	>>
	>
	> It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for
something 
	> like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
	> grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office
suite, and
	> some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates,
spyware, 
	> system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend
on
	> services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
	>
	> -Steve
	>
	> _______________________________________________ 
	> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
	> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
	> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
	>
	
	_______________________________________________
	TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

	 

	
	
	

	_______________________________________________
	TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071003/95755a3f/attachment-0001.htm 

From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:10:00 2007
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:10:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net> <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <7156d5f20710030710i16e6f32axb028056a7675fff9@mail.gmail.com>

I was just thinking this would be great for my Mom.  I've been trying to
decide what to get her for quite some time, and have been leaning toward an
iMac, but this looks perfect.



>
> It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market for something
> like this. Not for us on this list, but for the proverbial "my
> grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office suite, and
> some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates, spyware,
> system administration, etc. Considering how much people spend on
> services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
>
> -Steve
>


-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071003/013feb2a/attachment.htm 

From sss.lists at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:21:28 2007
From: sss.lists at gmail.com (Subramanya Sastry)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:21:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
Message-ID: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the tips.  The freezer trick didn't do it for me ... but, I
am going to perhaps try the controller trick and then give it up for now.

But, the inevitable followup to a hd crash.  I had backed up all important
data on dvds 3 months back, some of my code is on svn and cvs repositories,
and email is on an email server ... but, i nevertheless lost some work
related docs and some code ... say about 20-40 hours of work in recreating
those.

I also had dumbly(?) used my laptop as a cron-scheduled rsync-based backup
system for data on a web service (about 15 gb).  Now, I need to think of
other setups.  I am thinking of using amazon s3 for backing up my server
data ... Any thoughts on amazon s3 and/or alternatives folks here might have
experience with?  Data of the order of 10s of gigabytes and growing over
time at the rate of maybe 1 gb a month.

I am thinking of getting a home desktop system and I could use a rsync
technique for keeping copies of my laptop and desktop in sync ... Yet, it
seems you would have to burn DVDs every once in a while because there is
always the risk of one or the other 'backup' systems packing up.  Or is it
better to simply get a back up hard drive solely for the purpose of backup
and not use it for anything else, in stead of (or in addition to) a desktop?

Do people have thoughts on backup strategies -- I suppose this depends on
risk appetites as well as how critical the data is -- but what is a typical
(not overkill) backup strategy that people adopt when you have a combination
of email, code, design docs, personal photos + music, and web service data?

Feel free to direct me to an appropriate web site or other forums.

Thanks,
Subbu.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071003/d845f449/attachment.htm 

From jeruvin at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 09:39:31 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:39:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] (Another OT hardware question) Shorted HDD
In-Reply-To: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0710030739m1a30a85eq8d6b2e7346d53481@mail.gmail.com>

If it's shorted out there is a chance that replacing the circuit board on
the hard drive will allow it to function once again. I'm not sure about
others, but ebay seems to be a good source for getting just the board.

Jason

On 10/3/07, Pete <teeahr1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've got an HDD that I use as a backup-for-a-backup that seems to be
> shorted out.  When I give it power, whatever box its in will not turn on,
> and I'm pretty sure I toasted an enclosure.  This is all personal data,
> music and such, not something I'm at all willing to put money into
> recovering unless it's <$100.  Anyone have any luck with issues of this
> sort?
>
> best-
> p.daniels
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071003/25bcc471/attachment.htm 

From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Oct  3 10:22:10 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:22:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] (Another OT hardware question) Shorted HDD
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0710030739m1a30a85eq8d6b2e7346d53481@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <1f729feb0710030550q5d2a2d66g80519270b570dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<6eb23c4e0710030739m1a30a85eq8d6b2e7346d53481@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <13220.1191424930@skuld.wookimus.net>

Pete, be forewarned regarding trying to replace the circuit board for
the hard drive.  You will likely need the EXACT same board revision to
get it to work correctly.  How difficult that will be depends upon the
manufacturer and whether or not they play the shell game with the
advertised drive models.

Good luck!

Chad


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct  3 10:27:04 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:27:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
Message-ID: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>

What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
configuration?

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From andyzib at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 10:23:27 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:23:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710030823x5051315bj2653415eecbcf1bd@mail.gmail.com>

I use BackupPC at home to backup my systems to an external hard drive.
The *NIX systems that are being backed up just need ssh, rsync, and an
account with permission to run rsync as root via sudo. It works really
well as rsync will only push over the changed files, and then BackupPC
maintains it's archive with lots of symlinks and such. The external
hard drive used to be encrypted, but I had issues when moving the
drive from one computer to another so I gave up on the encryption and
settled on a laptop lock. I'm hoping to work out a deal with a friend
so that I can drop another external HD at his place and rsync the
BackupPC archive to the external HD at his place.

For the Windows system I'm BackupPC grabs data via smb sharing. I've
tried getting the rsync+ssh setup working on Windows but so far I've
only had mixed results.

BackupPC is nice for devices such as laptops which may not be on the
network. It can be configured to periodically ping hosts and back them
up when they are available on the network.

I've successfully recovered an entire Linux system via BackupPC. For
Windows, I only backup data (Documents and Settings directories). You
would need to involve nt backup or some other utility to do a full
restore of a Windows system.

I tried configuring Backula before BackupPC. In the end I found
Backula to be overly complicated for what I was doing.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Wed Oct  3 10:39:24 2007
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:39:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
In-Reply-To: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <200710031039.24666.bbaptist@iexposure.com>

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 10:27:04 am admin at lctn.org wrote:
> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
> configuration?

I recommend the Areca brand of hardware RAID adapters.  Very good Linux 
support built right in the kernel.

Here is an example:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=ARC1110&c=pw


-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
bbaptist at iexposure.com
Internet Exposure, Inc.
http://www.iexposure.com
(612)676-1946 x17

Providing Internet Services since 1995
Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics
Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing
------------------------------------------


From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 10:58:22 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:58:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Message-ID: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>

Just picked up 4 of these drives ... this week they are $119 regularly
$149.  I needed them ASAP so I couldn't wait for an online store to ship
- which might be a better price.  These have a 5 year warranty, and are
Sata2 - very nice drives!

Both Circuit City and Office Max have the deal this week.

Enjoy!


From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Oct  3 11:24:35 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:24:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net> 
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>

Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 12:05:09 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:05:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I am thinking of getting a home desktop system and I could use a rsync
> technique for keeping copies of my laptop and desktop in sync ... Yet, it

Also look at Unison.  It does a more advanced comparison than rsync, and I use 
it to sync two machines.  It does seem a little slower than rsync, however.

Jeremy


On Wednesday 03 October 2007 9:21:28 am Subramanya Sastry wrote:
> Thanks for all the tips.  The freezer trick didn't do it for me ... but, I
> am going to perhaps try the controller trick and then give it up for now.
>
> But, the inevitable followup to a hd crash.  I had backed up all important
> data on dvds 3 months back, some of my code is on svn and cvs repositories,
> and email is on an email server ... but, i nevertheless lost some work
> related docs and some code ... say about 20-40 hours of work in recreating
> those.
>
> I also had dumbly(?) used my laptop as a cron-scheduled rsync-based backup
> system for data on a web service (about 15 gb).  Now, I need to think of
> other setups.  I am thinking of using amazon s3 for backing up my server
> data ... Any thoughts on amazon s3 and/or alternatives folks here might
> have experience with?  Data of the order of 10s of gigabytes and growing
> over time at the rate of maybe 1 gb a month.
>
> I am thinking of getting a home desktop system and I could use a rsync
> technique for keeping copies of my laptop and desktop in sync ... Yet, it
> seems you would have to burn DVDs every once in a while because there is
> always the risk of one or the other 'backup' systems packing up.  Or is it
> better to simply get a back up hard drive solely for the purpose of backup
> and not use it for anything else, in stead of (or in addition to) a
> desktop?
>
> Do people have thoughts on backup strategies -- I suppose this depends on
> risk appetites as well as how critical the data is -- but what is a typical
> (not overkill) backup strategy that people adopt when you have a
> combination of email, code, design docs, personal photos + music, and web
> service data?
>
> Feel free to direct me to an appropriate web site or other forums.
>
> Thanks,
> Subbu.




From chewie at wookimus.net  Wed Oct  3 12:15:19 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:15:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com> 
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <14781.1191431719@skuld.wookimus.net>

I thought Unison wasn't being maintained any longer.

Chad


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct  3 12:41:40 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:41:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Data backup setup on linux systems
In-Reply-To: <14781.1191431719@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <3f6d716b0710030721n1bb788fpfc72b96803b7db18@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710031205.10120.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<14781.1191431719@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <200710031241.40575.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I thought Unison wasn't being maintained any longer.

I believe it is maintained by the authors, but it is no longer a formal 
research project.  

"Unison is no longer under active development as a research project. (Our 
research efforts in this area are now focused on a follow-on project called 
Harmony?more details are available on the Harmony home page.) At this point, 
there is no one whose job it is to maintain Unison, fix bugs, or answer 
questions.

However, the original developers are all still using Unison daily. It will 
continue to be maintained and supported for the foreseeable future, and we 
will occasionally release new versions with bug fixes, small improvements, 
and contributed patches."

http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/status.html

J

On Wednesday 03 October 2007 12:15:19 pm Chad Walstrom wrote:
> I thought Unison wasn't being maintained any longer.
>
> Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 15:12:53 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:12:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>

Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


yup it is:




Device Model:     ST3500630AS

16mb of cache as well!


From auditodd at comcast.net  Wed Oct  3 15:29:21 2007
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:29:21 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Message-ID: <100320072029.17939.4703FBA1000559890000461322007623020B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

With NewEgg you can get free 3 day shipping and NO sales tax.

NewEgg sounds like the better deal to me if you can wait for a few days (which I will be doing).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148136

Just my $0.02.  :-)

--
==========
Todd Young

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>
> Chad Walstrom wrote:
> > Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
> > get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> yup it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
> 
> 16mb of cache as well!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Wed Oct  3 15:34:23 2007
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:34:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net> <4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>

>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>> 
> yup it is:
> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
> 16mb of cache as well!

I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.






From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 15:59:05 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:59:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
In-Reply-To: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <47040299.6030603@e-skinner.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

admin at lctn.org wrote:
> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
> configuration?
> 

i have been using the 8 port Marvell sata2 MG-SA3541 in my home
fileserver.  i use software raid-5 to keep the cost down, since i don't
need hardware raid performance.  it was $108 for the card!  works
awesome with FC6 and gives me 2.4Tb usable.

i think the question you need to ask, is how many SATA ports do you
require.

will it be a 3x1 TB setup or 5x500Gb setup?  do you require a hot spare?

i have also used adaptec cards, 3ware, siig, highpoint and promise
controllers over the past serveral years. all are good and have good
Linux support.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHBAKZvE9HrEfeE4cRAjP1AJ9Sjvep0/6vLMOwFxLk1ibeGaJzjgCgo+UR
Nv3EKiyQEXOkWqyj/9nLugc=
=WGqC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed Oct  3 16:03:01 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:03:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
	<4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
Message-ID: <47040385.7050707@e-skinner.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>
>> yup it is:
>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>> 16mb of cache as well!
> 
> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 


i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my house
that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups of
my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to dip
into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives, i'll
see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHBAOFvE9HrEfeE4cRAh2QAJ9e0eLbgvuPK+8e5qbfQ1MjecXs+wCcDRM3
bTsnvtpahApbHpkk40waqvA=
=TF8l
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From jwo at umn.edu  Wed Oct  3 16:20:08 2007
From: jwo at umn.edu (Jonathan Osborne)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:20:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Message-ID: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>

Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple seagates
and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a five-year
warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.

Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
"refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?


Jonathan Osborne
WHRE Tech Coordinator
p: 612.624.1217
e: jwo at umn.edu

Marc Skinner said the following on 10/03/2007 16.03
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
>> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>>
>>> yup it is:
>>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>>> 16mb of cache as well!
>> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
>> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
>>
> 
> i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my house
> that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups of
> my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to dip
> into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
> cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives, i'll
> see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
> about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.


From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Wed Oct  3 16:51:43 2007
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:51:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
References: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4703C89E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>

Five year warranties do not make the drives great.
It only means you will probably have a functioning drive for 
the warranty period, whether you have a problem or not.


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Wed Oct  3 17:32:53 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:32:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>	<14011.1191428675@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<4703F7C5.40107@e-skinner.net>
	<4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
Message-ID: <47041895.6010304@umn.edu>

Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>
> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding 
support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more 
vigilant for data backup. Looks like Seagate is the industry leader in 
this respected.


From dean at ripperd.com  Wed Oct  3 18:36:57 2007
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean E)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:36:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] recommendation
In-Reply-To: <47040299.6030603@e-skinner.net>
References: <4572.10.10.1.1.1191425224.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<47040299.6030603@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <47042799.3070906@ripperd.com>

Marc Skinner wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> admin at lctn.org wrote:
>> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid 5
>> configuration?
>>
> 
> i have been using the 8 port Marvell sata2 MG-SA3541 in my home
> fileserver.  i use software raid-5 to keep the cost down, since i don't
> need hardware raid performance.  it was $108 for the card!  works
> awesome with FC6 and gives me 2.4Tb usable.
> 
> i think the question you need to ask, is how many SATA ports do you
> require.
> 
> will it be a 3x1 TB setup or 5x500Gb setup?  do you require a hot spare?
> 
> i have also used adaptec cards, 3ware, siig, highpoint and promise
> controllers over the past serveral years. all are good and have good
> Linux support.

It really depends on what kind of performance the original poster is 
looking for, the load profile, and the budget.

If you need it to be FAST, go 3ware or Areca, no question about it. 
Good driver support.  Low cpu overhead.  All RAID computations are done 
on a dedicated chip on the pci-x or pci-e bus.  Their array monitoring 
software(at least 3ware's) is quite good also.

If you want speed but are on a budget, get regular sata controller(s) 
and do a kernel raid setup (mdadm).  Mdadm can also do scheduled 
verifies, email on degradation, etc.  This is the route I went for my 
home file-server needs.  Just note that your /boot cannot be on a raid0 
or 5 partition as most bootloaders don't understand linux kernel raid. 
You can do it on a raid1 though (mirror).

If you want average performance and more headache in linux, get a cheap 
raid5 controller.  They do operations in a slower software driver using 
your cpu.  MDADM is often faster, and is not very complicated to set-up 
once familiar with it.  DMRAID (which is what you use in linux if you 
use a driver-based raid controller) sometimes can be a pain for people 
to set up.

-Dean


From tclug at beitsahour.net  Wed Oct  3 23:05:53 2007
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:05:53 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi
	network?
In-Reply-To: <200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071002193544.GQ8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710021450w5afcb578gf8f13a52d91e60d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:

> If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just need to
> reserve the room.  Up for it?

i'm up for it. tell me where and when.


From poptix at poptix.net  Wed Oct  3 22:59:26 2007
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
References: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4704651E.2040404@poptix.net>

Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.

We have at least 1,000 Seagate drives in production systems right now.

A five year warranty means that Seagate trusts their hardware enough 
that they won't (on average) have to replace the drive within that 
period, otherwise they would lose money on it like the 'other' drive 
makers were before they moved to 1-2 year warranties. Like any company 
offering a warranty, it's a statement of faith in their product.

Seagate has always had a 5 year warranty, it's not a new selling point.


> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?

The 4-4.9 year old 80GB drives we're finally RMA'ing are all coming back 
new or refurbished, usually as 160GB drives. We trust them just as much 
as any drive. What does refurbished mean from Seagate?

a) Someone RMA'd a drive that was perfectly good but had problems with 
their SATA controller, bad SATA cable, etc. Who knows. It passed the 
drive fitness tests at Seagate.

b) Bad logic board, Seagate replaces the logic board, the platters are fine.

c) Bad platters, Seagate replaces the platters, the logic board is fine.


No, I don't work for Seagate but I'm definitely a fan of their products. 
   They're right there with Hitachi when it comes to warranty, RMA 
service and reliability.




From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu Oct  4 08:29:08 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:29:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
References: <47040788.1000808@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4704EAA4.4060300@e-skinner.net>

I like the fact that I know I will have a working drive for five years.
 I put my drives in raid sets, so I really don't care if they fail, as
long as two don't at the same time, I'm totally functional.  With other
drives, 1-3 years is more the norm.  If one of those drives failed
outside of the warranty, I have to shell out more money for a
replacement drive.  After five years it is typically more economical
from a cents per GB, and performance to just purchase a better drive
anyway, with Moore's Law and all.

I don't have enough data to say I think Seagate drives are "better" then
Hitachi, Western Digital or Maxtor (now owned by Seagate), but I just
like the fact that I know I can use the drive for 5 years without having
to spend any more money.  I also don't have any problems with a
refurbished drive, as long as it is still under warranty.

Just my 2 cents.


Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.
> 
> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
> 
> 
> Jonathan Osborne
> WHRE Tech Coordinator
> p: 612.624.1217
> e: jwo at umn.edu
> 
> Marc Skinner said the following on 10/03/2007 16.03
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message <4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
>>> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>>>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you can
>>>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>>>
>>>> yup it is:
>>>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>>>> 16mb of cache as well!
>>> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a bit.
>>> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the future.
>>>
>> i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my house
>> that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups of
>> my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to dip
>> into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
>> cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives, i'll
>> see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
>> about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Thu Oct  4 10:04:00 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:04:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1624.1191448475.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1624.1191448475.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

> From: Jonathan Osborne <jwo at umn.edu>

> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Thu Oct  4 10:27:09 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:27:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
References: <mailman.1624.1191448475.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0710041026530.11847@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
>> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be a
>> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
>
> From day two, the drives you have are used drives. You get your broken 
> used drive swapped out and a working used drive swapped in. It's just as 
> trustworthy as your other used drives and Seagate backs that up with 
> their warranty.

I ahave no problem with refurb drives - they have generally been much more 
heavily tested than new drives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From bunjee at charter.net  Thu Oct  4 20:15:24 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 20:15:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1191517205.19626.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <3B25C3AE81D04779B893D55E8B6CD7E0@JohnnyPC>

I need some help with Sabayon Linux 3.3. I have installed it on an IDE
160GB HD. I have an Intel Core2Duo 6600 Processor with 2GB memory, and a
Radeon X1950 Pro video card. I also have an Ethernet bridge that picks
up my router which is upstairs. I have no problem getting online with
Vista or XP Pro. However, with Sabayon Linux and it seems like every
other Linux OS, connecting to the Internet is a task I can't figure out.
Please advise.
Thank you!
Dan J.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 12:00 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Elvedin Trnjanin)
   2. Re: recommendation (Dean E)
   3. Re: wireless router with gigabit and separate wifi	network?
      (Munir Nassar)
   4. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Matthew S. Hallacy)
   5. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Marc Skinner)
   6. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Chris Schumann)
   7. Re: FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale! (Nate Carlson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:32:53 -0500
From: Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: "Troy.A Johnson" <troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us>
Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <47041895.6010304 at umn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>
> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a
bit.
> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in the
future.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding 
support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more 
vigilant for data backup. Looks like Seagate is the industry leader in 
this respected.



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:36:57 -0500
From: Dean E <dean at ripperd.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] recommendation
To: TCLUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <47042799.3070906 at ripperd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Marc Skinner wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> admin at lctn.org wrote:
>> What is a recommended sata raid adapter, that can handle a 2Tb, raid
5
>> configuration?
>>
> 
> i have been using the 8 port Marvell sata2 MG-SA3541 in my home
> fileserver.  i use software raid-5 to keep the cost down, since i
don't
> need hardware raid performance.  it was $108 for the card!  works
> awesome with FC6 and gives me 2.4Tb usable.
> 
> i think the question you need to ask, is how many SATA ports do you
> require.
> 
> will it be a 3x1 TB setup or 5x500Gb setup?  do you require a hot
spare?
> 
> i have also used adaptec cards, 3ware, siig, highpoint and promise
> controllers over the past serveral years. all are good and have good
> Linux support.

It really depends on what kind of performance the original poster is 
looking for, the load profile, and the budget.

If you need it to be FAST, go 3ware or Areca, no question about it. 
Good driver support.  Low cpu overhead.  All RAID computations are done 
on a dedicated chip on the pci-x or pci-e bus.  Their array monitoring 
software(at least 3ware's) is quite good also.

If you want speed but are on a budget, get regular sata controller(s) 
and do a kernel raid setup (mdadm).  Mdadm can also do scheduled 
verifies, email on degradation, etc.  This is the route I went for my 
home file-server needs.  Just note that your /boot cannot be on a raid0 
or 5 partition as most bootloaders don't understand linux kernel raid. 
You can do it on a raid1 though (mirror).

If you want average performance and more headache in linux, get a cheap 
raid5 controller.  They do operations in a slower software driver using 
your cpu.  MDADM is often faster, and is not very complicated to set-up 
once familiar with it.  DMRAID (which is what you use in linux if you 
use a driver-based raid controller) sometimes can be a pain for people 
to set up.

-Dean



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:05:53 -0400
From: "Munir Nassar" <tclug at beitsahour.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] wireless router with gigabit and separate
	wifi	network?
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
	<fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:

> If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just
need to
> reserve the room.  Up for it?

i'm up for it. tell me where and when.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:59:26 -0500
From: "Matthew S. Hallacy" <poptix at poptix.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <4704651E.2040404 at poptix.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple
seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a
five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.

We have at least 1,000 Seagate drives in production systems right now.

A five year warranty means that Seagate trusts their hardware enough 
that they won't (on average) have to replace the drive within that 
period, otherwise they would lose money on it like the 'other' drive 
makers were before they moved to 1-2 year warranties. Like any company 
offering a warranty, it's a statement of faith in their product.

Seagate has always had a 5 year warranty, it's not a new selling point.


> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be
a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?

The 4-4.9 year old 80GB drives we're finally RMA'ing are all coming back

new or refurbished, usually as 160GB drives. We trust them just as much 
as any drive. What does refurbished mean from Seagate?

a) Someone RMA'd a drive that was perfectly good but had problems with 
their SATA controller, bad SATA cable, etc. Who knows. It passed the 
drive fitness tests at Seagate.

b) Bad logic board, Seagate replaces the logic board, the platters are
fine.

c) Bad platters, Seagate replaces the platters, the logic board is fine.


No, I don't work for Seagate but I'm definitely a fan of their products.

   They're right there with Hitachi when it comes to warranty, RMA 
service and reliability.





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:29:08 -0500
From: Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <4704EAA4.4060300 at e-skinner.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I like the fact that I know I will have a working drive for five years.
 I put my drives in raid sets, so I really don't care if they fail, as
long as two don't at the same time, I'm totally functional.  With other
drives, 1-3 years is more the norm.  If one of those drives failed
outside of the warranty, I have to shell out more money for a
replacement drive.  After five years it is typically more economical
from a cents per GB, and performance to just purchase a better drive
anyway, with Moore's Law and all.

I don't have enough data to say I think Seagate drives are "better" then
Hitachi, Western Digital or Maxtor (now owned by Seagate), but I just
like the fact that I know I can use the drive for 5 years without having
to spend any more money.  I also don't have any problems with a
refurbished drive, as long as it is still under warranty.

Just my 2 cents.


Jonathan Osborne wrote:
> Why does a five-year warranty make them great?  I own a couple
seagates
> and they've been good so far.  But the warranty doesn't really mean
> anything.  They probably figured out that if they advertise a
five-year
> warranty, they'll sell more drives, offsetting (or perhaps even
> exceeding) the cost of replacing drives further into the future.
> 
> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be
a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
> 
> 
> Jonathan Osborne
> WHRE Tech Coordinator
> p: 612.624.1217
> e: jwo at umn.edu
> 
> Marc Skinner said the following on 10/03/2007 16.03
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/3/2007 at 3:12 PM, in message
<4703F7C5.40107 at e-skinner.net>, Marc
>>> Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>>>> Chad Walstrom wrote:
>>>>> Is it the 7200.10 series or 7200.9 series.  Go for the .10 if you
can
>>>>> get it.  NewEgg.com has the .10 series for $119 as well.
>>>>>
>>>> yup it is:
>>>> Device Model:     ST3500630AS
>>>> 16mb of cache as well!
>>> I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking
a bit.
>>> It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in
the future.
>>>
>> i learned my lesson a long time ago, i don't have any drives in my
house
>> that aren't raid-1 or raid-5.  it is a life saver!  i also do backups
of
>> my most critical data, so far, raid has saved me from ever having to
dip
>> into a restore.  but there will come a time.  the seagates are great
>> cause they have a 5 year warranty.  i know have 10 of those drives,
i'll
>> see what happens, but so for 6 of them have been running non-stop for
>> about 4 months now, the other 4 i just put into servers today.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:04:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Chris Schumann" <cschumann at twp-llc.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <58622.192.28.2.17.1191510240.squirrel at alpha.twp-llc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

> From: Jonathan Osborne <jwo at umn.edu>

> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably be
a
> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?

>From day two, the drives you have are used drives. You get your broken
used drive swapped out and a working used drive swapped in. It's just as
trustworthy as your other used drives and Seagate backs that up with
their
warranty.

Chris






------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:27:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
To: Chris Schumann <cschumann at twp-llc.com>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0710041026530.11847 at iron.msp.technicality.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Chris Schumann wrote:
>> Besides, it's the data that's important, not the drive.  And even if
>> they make good on the warranty 4 1/2 years from now, it'll probably
be a
>> "refurbished" drive anyway.  Would you trust that?
>
> From day two, the drives you have are used drives. You get your broken

> used drive swapped out and a working used drive swapped in. It's just
as 
> trustworthy as your other used drives and Seagate backs that up with 
> their warranty.

I ahave no problem with refurb drives - they have generally been much
more 
heavily tested than new drives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9
*****************************************


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.1/1050 - Release Date:
10/4/2007 5:03 PM



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Oct  4 23:53:11 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:53:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI - Seagate 500GB Sata drives on sale!
In-Reply-To: <47041895.6010304@umn.edu>
References: <4703BC1E.1060901@e-skinner.net>
	<4703B67E.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>
	<47041895.6010304@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200710042353.11723.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding
> support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more

Actually, if you disassemble the drive, you can connect an audio source to the 
coils on the head assembly, and play music.  It's not super loud, but it 
works.

Jeremy


On Wednesday 03 October 2007 5:32:53 pm Elvedin Trnjanin wrote:
> Troy.A Johnson wrote:
> > I bought a couple of the 7200.10 disks recently, but one is clicking a
> > bit. It works for now, but I see myself using that warranty sometime in
> > the future.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> I always wondered when hard drive manufacturers would start adding
> support for artificial "hard drive crashing" noises to make users more
> vigilant for data backup. Looks like Seagate is the industry leader in
> this respected.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Fri Oct  5 00:44:14 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 00:44:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710050544.l955iEr16716@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: proliant servers

Location: Monticello

Proliant server dual 333 mhz 5 9.1 Gb RAID scsi drives, no CDRom.  

Proliant server dual 500 mhz 3 9.1 Gb RAID scsi drives.

Proliant server 700 mhz rack mount.  3 9.1 Gb RAID scsi drives.

Not sure of current RAM configuration, but pretty sure most or all is in the Dual 500 machine as I was playing with that one last.  

The first two are large roll around models, very heavy.

I have to get rid of these this weekend somehow, first to show up and take all 3 will get help loading.

Seller Email address: danyberg at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From strayf at freeshell.org  Fri Oct  5 11:16:09 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:16:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <3B25C3AE81D04779B893D55E8B6CD7E0@JohnnyPC>
References: <3B25C3AE81D04779B893D55E8B6CD7E0@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <47066349.8040300@freeshell.org>

Danny wrote:
> I need some help with Sabayon Linux 3.3. I have installed it on an IDE
> 160GB HD. I have an Intel Core2Duo 6600 Processor with 2GB memory, and a
> Radeon X1950 Pro video card. I also have an Ethernet bridge that picks
> up my router which is upstairs. I have no problem getting online with
> Vista or XP Pro. However, with Sabayon Linux and it seems like every
> other Linux OS, connecting to the Internet is a task I can't figure out.
> Please advise.
> Thank you!
> Dan J.
> 

Perhaps you could define what you mean by "Ethernet bridge". Is this some sort
of wireless router?

-Steve


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Oct  5 11:22:11 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:22:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Wed Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710030110.05067.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710051122.11616.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is coming soon!

Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or things 
to discuss, just let me know.

NOTE:  there is a room change.  This is a smaller room in the main part of the 
building.  It only seats 50  ;)

 Date: Wed, Oct 10th
 Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
 University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-110
 200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455


On Wednesday 03 October 2007 11:05:53 pm Munir Nassar wrote:
> On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
> > If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just need
> > to reserve the room.  Up for it?
>
> i'm up for it. tell me where and when.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Sun Oct  7 15:57:46 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:57:46 -0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net>
	<470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>	<47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>	<38aa5b6a0710021220i499efe75wac3636fd6a927d7f@mail.gmail.com>	<d3cf65830710021434g3c08651aqc2c72d5c84c81cda@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39DF8E30.9000108@mchsi.com>

J Cruit wrote:
> Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
> http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm
> <http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm> as apparently
> they bought Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy
> 3 get one free, anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the
> fact that it doesn't have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out
> at 128MB of memory thats a pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the
> hard drive for a larger one and upgrade the memory too if you want. 
> Plus the Norhtek sounds like it uses an AMD chip so there may be
> better compatibility than the unknown one in the Zonbu.  Plus the
> Zonbu is theoretically "greener".
>
> But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other
> super small cheap systems out there?
>
> --j
I'd be in for an order. 2 people x $150 or 4 people x $75? Now that's
the question. :)

Regards,

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx
>
> On 10/2/07, * Spence Morris* <spence.morris at gmail.com
> <mailto:spence.morris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of
>     Linux tacked on.
>     The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove
>     itself>
>     There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re
>     again, Norhtek-
>     based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units
>     here- At last look,
>     he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas
>     about use.
>     Check out Norhtek.com <http://Norhtek.com> before investing in Zonbu.
>
>     On 10/2/07, *J Cruit* < j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>         So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may
>         be the exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small
>         quiet Mythfrontend system.  I'll have to figure out some sort
>         of USB remote, and my TV does actually have a VGA input so I
>         should be good there.  My other options were a repurposed
>         MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
>         Processor, etc but with a remote port).
>
>         This is the response from Zonbu:
>
>         "Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware.
>         While we do not and cannot officially support running
>         alternate OSes on the Zonbu hardware, several users have
>         reported successfully installing other OSes (e.g. Ubuntu
>         Linux) on the hardware without any problems"
>
>         Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.
>
>         --j
>
>
>         On 10/2/07, *J * <j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com>>
>         wrote:
>
>             I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service
>             plan" and wipe
>             it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity
>             hardware and
>             many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10
>             times the
>             size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more
>             just for the
>             case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet
>             environmentally friendly
>             PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't
>             mind running a
>             little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps
>             just a mythfrontend?
>
>             I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own
>             distro by hook
>             or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good
>             project for a
>             while.
>
>             --j
>
>             Steve Cayford wrote:
>             > Chris Frederick wrote:
>             >
>             >> G. Scott Walters wrote:
>             >>
>             >>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
>             >>>
>             >> [...]
>             >>
>             >
>             >
>             >> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form
>             factor PCs for a
>             >> while.  They look very similar to these:
>             >>
>             >> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
>             <http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm>
>             >>
>             >> >From the Zonbu site:
>             >>
>             >> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years =
>             $412.95
>             >>
>             >> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80
>             after two years
>             >> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy"
>             warns that if you
>             >> cancel the membership service, your device will not give
>             you access to
>             >> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no
>             support option, but
>             >> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I
>             went with that.
>             >>
>             >> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I
>             don't see much
>             >> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
>             >>
>             >> >From their site:
>             >>
>             >> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
>             >> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros
>             have this.
>             >> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a
>             mailing list.  ;-)
>             >> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no
>             plugins)" - That
>             >> just sounds scary to me.
>             >> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty -
>             Nice, but that's
>             >> an extra $60 a year.
>             >>
>             >> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but
>             personally I'd rather
>             >> pay more up front for something without a huge service
>             contract, or
>             >> required membership service.
>             >>
>             >> ymmv,
>             >> Chris Frederick
>             >>
>             >
>             > It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market
>             for something
>             > like this. Not for us on this list, but for the
>             proverbial "my
>             > grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office
>             suite, and
>             > some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates,
>             spyware,
>             > system administration, etc. Considering how much people
>             spend on
>             > services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too outrageous.
>             >
>             > -Steve
>             >
>             > _______________________________________________
>             > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>             >
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From j at packetgod.com  Sun Oct  7 16:15:53 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 16:15:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <39DF8E30.9000108@mchsi.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<470145F0.6030301@cdf123.net> <470198E8.8050205@freeshell.org>
	<47025100.2060401@packetgod.com>
	<38aa5b6a0710021220i499efe75wac3636fd6a927d7f@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3cf65830710021434g3c08651aqc2c72d5c84c81cda@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
	<39DF8E30.9000108@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0710071415h6d36ed27x172360dedb79ffd1@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I may still go for it just to have another little machine to play with
but after finding out the processor was something like a 166mhz I decided to
stick with the Zonbu.  Plus the Zonbu had a 1.3GHZ proc, 512MB of mem
instead of 128, a 4GB Flash instead of the 10GB HD, and a built in ethernet
instead of a USB one.  So overall I liked the form factor and everything
better so it was worth the extra money.  Now I did research the mini-PCI and
new shuttle machines but to actually build out a PC would be in the 700 to
1000$ range admittedly for a much better machine.  But my goal with this is
a mythfrontend, nothing more so I really want small, cheap, and quiet.

I'm still thinking thought that a small little dectop for a little
mini-server or some such.  Perhaps a box to do a wake-on-lan to my
mythbackend right before it needs to record or if the mythfrontend fires
up.  Hard to say.  Plus a little box like that for 75$ is hard to resist
just to play with.

--j

On 10/7/00, nick thompson <nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> J Cruit wrote:
> > Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
> > http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm
> > <http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm> as apparently
> > they bought Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy
> > 3 get one free, anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the
> > fact that it doesn't have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out
> > at 128MB of memory thats a pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the
> > hard drive for a larger one and upgrade the memory too if you want.
> > Plus the Norhtek sounds like it uses an AMD chip so there may be
> > better compatibility than the unknown one in the Zonbu.  Plus the
> > Zonbu is theoretically "greener".
> >
> > But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other
> > super small cheap systems out there?
> >
> > --j
> I'd be in for an order. 2 people x $150 or 4 people x $75? Now that's
> the question. :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Nick
>
> "All unix, all the time."
>
> http://npt.ath.cx
> >
> > On 10/2/07, * Spence Morris* <spence.morris at gmail.com
> > <mailto:spence.morris at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of
> >     Linux tacked on.
> >     The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove
> >     itself>
> >     There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re
> >     again, Norhtek-
> >     based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units
> >     here- At last look,
> >     he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas
> >     about use.
> >     Check out Norhtek.com <http://Norhtek.com> before investing in
> Zonbu.
> >
> >     On 10/2/07, *J Cruit* < j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com>>
> >     wrote:
> >
> >         So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may
> >         be the exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small
> >         quiet Mythfrontend system.  I'll have to figure out some sort
> >         of USB remote, and my TV does actually have a VGA input so I
> >         should be good there.  My other options were a repurposed
> >         MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
> >         Processor, etc but with a remote port).
> >
> >         This is the response from Zonbu:
> >
> >         "Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware.
> >         While we do not and cannot officially support running
> >         alternate OSes on the Zonbu hardware, several users have
> >         reported successfully installing other OSes (e.g. Ubuntu
> >         Linux) on the hardware without any problems"
> >
> >         Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.
> >
> >         --j
> >
> >
> >         On 10/2/07, *J * <j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com>>
> >         wrote:
> >
> >             I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service
> >             plan" and wipe
> >             it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity
> >             hardware and
> >             many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10
> >             times the
> >             size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more
> >             just for the
> >             case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet
> >             environmentally friendly
> >             PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't
> >             mind running a
> >             little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps
> >             just a mythfrontend?
> >
> >             I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own
> >             distro by hook
> >             or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good
> >             project for a
> >             while.
> >
> >             --j
> >
> >             Steve Cayford wrote:
> >             > Chris Frederick wrote:
> >             >
> >             >> G. Scott Walters wrote:
> >             >>
> >             >>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> >             >>>
> >             >> [...]
> >             >>
> >             >
> >             >
> >             >> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form
> >             factor PCs for a
> >             >> while.  They look very similar to these:
> >             >>
> >             >> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> >             <http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm>
> >             >>
> >             >> >From the Zonbu site:
> >             >>
> >             >> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years =
> >             $412.95
> >             >>
> >             >> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80
> >             after two years
> >             >> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy"
> >             warns that if you
> >             >> cancel the membership service, your device will not give
> >             you access to
> >             >> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no
> >             support option, but
> >             >> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I
> >             went with that.
> >             >>
> >             >> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I
> >             don't see much
> >             >> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> >             >>
> >             >> >From their site:
> >             >>
> >             >> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> >             >> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros
> >             have this.
> >             >> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a
> >             mailing list.  ;-)
> >             >> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no
> >             plugins)" - That
> >             >> just sounds scary to me.
> >             >> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty -
> >             Nice, but that's
> >             >> an extra $60 a year.
> >             >>
> >             >> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but
> >             personally I'd rather
> >             >> pay more up front for something without a huge service
> >             contract, or
> >             >> required membership service.
> >             >>
> >             >> ymmv,
> >             >> Chris Frederick
> >             >>
> >             >
> >             > It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market
> >             for something
> >             > like this. Not for us on this list, but for the
> >             proverbial "my
> >             > grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office
> >             suite, and
> >             > some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates,
> >             spyware,
> >             > system administration, etc. Considering how much people
> >             spend on
> >             > services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too
> outrageous.
> >             >
> >             > -Steve
> >             >
> >             > _______________________________________________
> >             > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >             > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >             > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> >             >
> >
> >             _______________________________________________
> >             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071007/4d1a1b02/attachment-0001.htm 

From tclug at lizakowski.com  Sun Oct  7 18:05:13 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 18:05:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <39DF8E30.9000108@mchsi.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>
	<39DF8E30.9000108@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <200710071805.13225.tclug@lizakowski.com>

>Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 15:57:20 -0500
>From: nick thompson <nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com>
>User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070908)

How did you send that email 7 years ago?  

$75 for that machine in the year 2000 would be a great deal indeed.  Although 
shipping charges might eat up the difference.  What does UPS charge 
for -2,500 day delivery?

Jeremy

On Saturday 07 October 2000 3:57:20 pm nick thompson wrote:
> J Cruit wrote:
> > Cool beans, just to update you the site is now:
> > http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm
> > <http://www.dataevolution.com/dectop%20info%202.htm> as apparently
> > they bought Norhtek.  And the device is a dectop for only 99$ (or buy
> > 3 get one free, anybody want to split an order?).  So other than the
> > fact that it doesn't have a flash drive as a hard drive and starts out
> > at 128MB of memory thats a pretty good deal.  But you can swap out the
> > hard drive for a larger one and upgrade the memory too if you want.
> > Plus the Norhtek sounds like it uses an AMD chip so there may be
> > better compatibility than the unknown one in the Zonbu.  Plus the
> > Zonbu is theoretically "greener".
> >
> > But at 99$ versus 249$ I'm probably down with the Norhtek.  Any other
> > super small cheap systems out there?
> >
> > --j
>
> I'd be in for an order. 2 people x $150 or 4 people x $75? Now that's
> the question. :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Nick
>
> "All unix, all the time."
>
> http://npt.ath.cx
>
> > On 10/2/07, * Spence Morris* <spence.morris at gmail.com
> > <mailto:spence.morris at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Zonbu is pretty much a generic unit with their own variant of
> >     Linux tacked on.
> >     The idea of the network being the computer has yet to fully prove
> >     itself>
> >     There are other mini pc builders with fewer hooks and agendas- re
> >     again, Norhtek-
> >     based in Thailand. Michael C. Barnes sells a lot of his units
> >     here- At last look,
> >     he had four or five nice models to choose from and good ideas
> >     about use.
> >     Check out Norhtek.com <http://Norhtek.com> before investing in Zonbu.
> >
> >     On 10/2/07, *J Cruit* < j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com>>
> >     wrote:
> >
> >         So I e-mailed Zonbu and got a quick response, I think this may
> >         be the exact platform I've been looking for to use for a small
> >         quiet Mythfrontend system.  I'll have to figure out some sort
> >         of USB remote, and my TV does actually have a VGA input so I
> >         should be good there.  My other options were a repurposed
> >         MacMini, a shuttle  SD02 for 499$ (without memory, HD,
> >         Processor, etc but with a remote port).
> >
> >         This is the response from Zonbu:
> >
> >         "Yes, you are free to do as you wish with the Zonbu hardware.
> >         While we do not and cannot officially support running
> >         alternate OSes on the Zonbu hardware, several users have
> >         reported successfully installing other OSes (e.g. Ubuntu
> >         Linux) on the hardware without any problems"
> >
> >         Hey, thanks much TCLUG for putting me onto this.
> >
> >         --j
> >
> >
> >         On 10/2/07, *J * <j at packetgod.com <mailto:j at packetgod.com>>
> >         wrote:
> >
> >             I'm tempted to hit this for their "249$ without service
> >             plan" and wipe
> >             it clean with my own distro.  They must be using commodity
> >             hardware and
> >             many of those SFF PC cases start at 100$ for something 10
> >             times the
> >             size.  Small ones like the Zonbu are generally even more
> >             just for the
> >             case.  So a complete Linux friendly SFF quiet
> >             environmentally friendly
> >             PC for 249$, while a bit light on the specs I wouldn't
> >             mind running a
> >             little home web/e-mail/SSH server off of it or perhaps
> >             just a mythfrontend?
> >
> >             I think I'll do it, buy it and see if I can load my own
> >             distro by hook
> >             or by crook.  I'm hoping by crook as I haven't had a good
> >             project for a
> >             while.
> >
> >             --j
> >
> >             Steve Cayford wrote:
> >             > Chris Frederick wrote:
> >             >> G. Scott Walters wrote:
> >             >>> Anyone ever heard of Zonbu?
> >             >>
> >             >> [...]
> >             >>
> >             >>
> >             >>
> >             >> Looks interesting.  I've been looking at small form
> >
> >             factor PCs for a
> >
> >             >> while.  They look very similar to these:
> >             >>
> >             >> http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm
> >
> >             <http://logisysus.com/product/smallest-pc.htm>
> >
> >             >> >From the Zonbu site:
> >             >>
> >             >> Zonbu Desktop, Standard plan, Billing every two years =
> >
> >             $412.95
> >
> >             >> Thats standard options after all discounts, plus $358.80
> >
> >             after two years
> >
> >             >> for more support.  Also, their "Cancel anytime policy"
> >
> >             warns that if you
> >
> >             >> cancel the membership service, your device will not give
> >
> >             you access to
> >
> >             >> your data after 3 months.  They do have a free/no
> >
> >             support option, but
> >
> >             >> I'd probably want to talk to a sales person before I
> >
> >             went with that.
> >
> >             >> I guess it depends on what their support covers, but I
> >
> >             don't see much
> >
> >             >> there that strikes me as worth $180 a year.
> >             >>
> >             >> >From their site:
> >             >>
> >             >> Disaster proof storage - Very doable and cheap.
> >             >> Free automatic software upgrades - Most linux distros
> >
> >             have this.
> >
> >             >> Unlimited Internet support - You are reading this on a
> >
> >             mailing list.  ;-)
> >
> >             >> Remote file access "anywhere, anytime, any browser (no
> >
> >             plugins)" - That
> >
> >             >> just sounds scary to me.
> >             >> Overnight free hardware replacement limited warranty -
> >
> >             Nice, but that's
> >
> >             >> an extra $60 a year.
> >             >>
> >             >> My $0.02 would be that everything looks nice, but
> >
> >             personally I'd rather
> >
> >             >> pay more up front for something without a huge service
> >
> >             contract, or
> >
> >             >> required membership service.
> >             >>
> >             >> ymmv,
> >             >> Chris Frederick
> >             >
> >             > It seems to me that there could be a pretty good market
> >
> >             for something
> >
> >             > like this. Not for us on this list, but for the
> >
> >             proverbial "my
> >
> >             > grandmother." Folks who want a web browser, email, office
> >
> >             suite, and
> >
> >             > some basic games and who don't want to deal with updates,
> >
> >             spyware,
> >
> >             > system administration, etc. Considering how much people
> >
> >             spend on
> >
> >             > services like Geek Squad the rates don't seem too
> >             > outrageous.
> >             >
> >             > -Steve
> >             >
> >             > _______________________________________________
> >             > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >             > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >             > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> >
> >
> >             _______________________________________________
> >             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From florin at iucha.net  Mon Oct  8 00:01:03 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:01:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Laserjet 5MP slowdown problem
Message-ID: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>

Hello,

More than a year ago I purchased a used HP Laserjet 5MP with a low
page count (15k).  I connected it to my Debian server, configured it
in Cups and all was well.  It wasn't a speed daemon, but it printed
a page every other minute if it wasn't too loaded.  I have upgraded
the memory to the max (24MB) and that speed it up a bit.

Lately, the printer slowed down drastically, the new rhythm is one
page every 15-20 minutes!  These are PDFs, with some small graphics,
nothing out of the ordinary.

I moved the printer from my Debian server to my Ubuntu workstation.  I
then moved it to a Windows laptop.  It is all the same.

When I spool something, it starts blinking the data port and it just
sits there.  Maybe when the moons align just so, it spits out a page.

Has anybody seen this problem?  Does anybody know how to fix it?
Should I just take it to the curb and let the trash truck run it over?

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071008/3a2a2d53/attachment.pgp 

From florin at iucha.net  Mon Oct  8 00:20:02 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:20:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Laserjet 5MP slowdown problem
In-Reply-To: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <20071008052002.GV8174@iucha.net>

On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 12:01:03AM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote:
> More than a year ago I purchased a used HP Laserjet 5MP with a low
> page count (15k).  I connected it to my Debian server, configured it
> in Cups and all was well.  It wasn't a speed daemon, but it printed
> a page every other minute if it wasn't too loaded.  I have upgraded
> the memory to the max (24MB) and that speed it up a bit.
> 
> Lately, the printer slowed down drastically, the new rhythm is one
> page every 15-20 minutes!  These are PDFs, with some small graphics,
> nothing out of the ordinary.
> 
> I moved the printer from my Debian server to my Ubuntu workstation.  I
> then moved it to a Windows laptop.  It is all the same.

I poketh around the Windows print dialog and I upped its "Postscript
Memory" to "2600k" from the original "760k".  I spooled the same PDF
and now it was spitting out pages without any pauses in between.

Weird...

Now, how do I replicate this miracle onto my Debian server?

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071008/f33e5944/attachment.pgp 

From tclug at lizakowski.com  Mon Oct  8 00:32:25 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:32:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Laserjet 5MP slowdown problem
In-Reply-To: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <200710080032.25985.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Perhaps it's a postscript virus :)

  ftp://ftp.minolta-qms.com/pub/cts/out_going/dos/postv.txt

J

On Monday 08 October 2007 12:01:03 am Florin Iucha wrote:
> Hello,
>
> More than a year ago I purchased a used HP Laserjet 5MP with a low
> page count (15k).  I connected it to my Debian server, configured it
> in Cups and all was well.  It wasn't a speed daemon, but it printed
> a page every other minute if it wasn't too loaded.  I have upgraded
> the memory to the max (24MB) and that speed it up a bit.
>
> Lately, the printer slowed down drastically, the new rhythm is one
> page every 15-20 minutes!  These are PDFs, with some small graphics,
> nothing out of the ordinary.
>
> I moved the printer from my Debian server to my Ubuntu workstation.  I
> then moved it to a Windows laptop.  It is all the same.
>
> When I spool something, it starts blinking the data port and it just
> sits there.  Maybe when the moons align just so, it spits out a page.
>
> Has anybody seen this problem?  Does anybody know how to fix it?
> Should I just take it to the curb and let the trash truck run it over?
>
> Thanks,
> florin




From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com  Mon Oct  8 01:14:10 2007
From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 01:14:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Laserjet 5MP slowdown problem
In-Reply-To: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
References: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20071008005131.0262f120@pop.mm.com>

At 12:01 AM 10/8/2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
>Lately, the printer slowed down drastically, the new rhythm is one
>page every 15-20 minutes!  These are PDFs, with some small graphics,
>nothing out of the ordinary.


I have worked with the HP LaserJet 5 series for years.  These 
printers choke on large graphics, exhibiting precisely the symptoms 
you report.  My hunch is that embedded in your PDFs are huge megabyte 
images, shrunk down so that they look small on the page (ie, a 24-bit 
color 2000x2000 TIFF that appears only as big as a postage stamp),  A 
LaserJet 5 will take tens of minutes to print such pages.

If my hunch is right:

** The PDF you are attempting to print is really big -- several 
megabytes per page.
** Your printer works at normal speeds on "normal" PDFs and simple 
B&W text pages.

Another explanation for big PDFs: Some applications produce PDFs in a 
fax-like process, by first rasterizing each page, then PDF-ifying the 
whole-page image to produce the PDF page.  Such PDF files can be 
immense, even if the document appears to have no graphics whatever.



From sos at zjod.net  Mon Oct  8 01:08:33 2007
From: sos at zjod.net (Steve Siegfried)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 01:08:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Laserjet 5MP slowdown problem
In-Reply-To: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <200710080608.l9868XoL015172@zjod.net>

Florin Iucha wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> More than a year ago I purchased a used HP Laserjet 5MP with a low
> page count (15k).  I connected it to my Debian server, configured it
> in Cups and all was well.  It wasn't a speed daemon, but it printed
> a page every other minute if it wasn't too loaded.  I have upgraded
> the memory to the max (24MB) and that speed it up a bit.
> 
> Lately, the printer slowed down drastically, the new rhythm is one
> page every 15-20 minutes!  These are PDFs, with some small graphics,
> nothing out of the ordinary.
> 
> I moved the printer from my Debian server to my Ubuntu workstation.  I
> then moved it to a Windows laptop.  It is all the same.
> 
> When I spool something, it starts blinking the data port and it just
> sits there.  Maybe when the moons align just so, it spits out a page.
> 
> Has anybody seen this problem?  Does anybody know how to fix it?
> Should I just take it to the curb and let the trash truck run it over?
> 
> Thanks,
> florin

I bought my 5MP new about 12 years ago and it's been rock solid.
However I did later upgrade the memory to 22MB and added a duplexer.

When I installed the extra memory, it sped up.  For printing text (compile
listings, et al) via enscript, it now clicks along nicely with no pauses
at about 10-12 pages a minute in two-up, duplex mode (2 "pages" a side,
double sided), so I can't complain.  However, it's never been a speed
demon with respect to gifs, pdfs, etc.  I suspect this is because most
of the fonts being used need to be downloaded on the fly along with the
actual output.

I've never noticed any change in output rate when I changed from the
old LPR to the newer CUPS.

Given how old some of these printers are getting, I'd suggest re-seating
the printer's network card and all of the memory sims.  I'd also
suggest plugging it back into your network using a new network cable
and a different slot on your router/hub.  If you're using the printer
directly connected instead of on a network, try a different printer cable
(or better yet, if it has a network card, use that instead).

If that doesn't fix the problem, then using the buttons on the top,
get into the "TEST MENU" (via the "Menu" button) and from there (via the
"Item" button) into:
	"PRINT SELF TEST"
	"PRINT LJ5 DEMO"
	"PRINT PS CONFIG"
	"PRINT LJ5M DEMO"
	"CONT SELF TEST"

For each of the 5 (or possibly 4 if you don't have postscript installed,
but with a "5MP" model, you should) submenues, hit "Select" to run the
test/print the outcome.  Once you hit "Select", it shouldn't take more
than 5 seconds to get the printer started on printing the output.

Once you get the output from these self tests, pay special attention to
the "Self Test / Configuration" and "Menu Map" output.  If you've added
memory (and you have), you'll might need to adjust how it's used in the
MEM CONFIG MENU (but read the manual carefully before moving away from
"AUTO" settings here).

In the "Menu Map" output (from the SELF TEST) you probably want:
	Menu Map -> MEM CONFIG MENU:
			I/O BUFFER    = AUTO
			RESRCSAVE     = AUTO
	         -> PARALLEL MENU:
			HIGH SPEED   = YES
			ADV FNCTNS   = ON
	         -> SERIAL MENU:
			PACING       = DTR/DSR
			BAUD RATE    = 9600   (yeah... 9600, sheesh!)
			DTR POLARITY = HI
	         -> POSTSCRIPT MENU:
			PTR PS ERRS  = OFF
			JAM RECOVER  = OFF

I can scan and email the "Self Test / Configuration" and "Menu Map"
output I get if you're still having problems (or can't find/don't have
the manual).

56160 pages and counting'idly,

-S


From nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com  Mon Oct  8 06:30:17 2007
From: nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com (nick thompson)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:30:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Zonbu
In-Reply-To: <200710071805.13225.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <34b4c76d0710011053r5a8ea821xdc990506fa2c6b0b@mail.gmail.com>	<38aa5b6a0710021724ndf5647dq3fc479060e54613a@mail.gmail.com>	<39DF8E30.9000108@mchsi.com>
	<200710071805.13225.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <470A14C9.4040109@mchsi.com>

Jeremy wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 15:57:20 -0500
>> From: nick thompson <nicholas.thompson1 at mchsi.com>
>> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070908)
>>     
>
> How did you send that email 7 years ago?  
>
> $75 for that machine in the year 2000 would be a great deal indeed.  Although 
> shipping charges might eat up the difference.  What does UPS charge 
> for -2,500 day delivery?
>
> Jeremy
>   
hehehe. I accidentally hit a 0 instead of a 7 while using the date
command. be careful, or you may be sucked back to the year 2000 as well.

Nick

"All unix, all the time."

http://npt.ath.cx


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Mon Oct  8 07:23:59 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:23:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mailman question
Message-ID: <470A215F.40604@mtu.net>

I've got a mailman list setup and I get two messages each day about
moderator requests that are awaiting approval.  Both messages are sent
at the same time.  I have two admins for the list and no one listed as
the moderator.  Adding a third admin does not add a third message.  Does
anyone know why I get these duplicate messages?  It's kind of annoying.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From florin at iucha.net  Mon Oct  8 07:48:57 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 07:48:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Laserjet 5MP slowdown problem
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20071008005131.0262f120@pop.mm.com>
References: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20071008005131.0262f120@pop.mm.com>
Message-ID: <20071008124856.GW8174@iucha.net>

On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 01:14:10AM -0500, Dean.Benjamin at mm.com wrote:
> At 12:01 AM 10/8/2007, Florin Iucha wrote:
> >Lately, the printer slowed down drastically, the new rhythm is one
> >page every 15-20 minutes!  These are PDFs, with some small graphics,
> >nothing out of the ordinary.
> 
> 
> I have worked with the HP LaserJet 5 series for years.  These 
> printers choke on large graphics, exhibiting precisely the symptoms 
> you report.  My hunch is that embedded in your PDFs are huge megabyte 
> images, shrunk down so that they look small on the page (ie, a 24-bit 
> color 2000x2000 TIFF that appears only as big as a postage stamp),  A 
> LaserJet 5 will take tens of minutes to print such pages.
> 
> If my hunch is right:
> 
> ** The PDF you are attempting to print is really big -- several 
> megabytes per page.

No, it is 1.7 MB for 22 pages.  It printed the first 9 pages in 3
hours when connected to Debian server.  It printed the last 13 at
"small initial processing" + 13 x "full page speed" ~ 2-3 minutes
when connected to the Windows laptop.

> ** Your printer works at normal speeds on "normal" PDFs and simple 
> B&W text pages.

Nope.  It crawls even for the "cups test page", which is normally
quite fast.

> Another explanation for big PDFs: Some applications produce PDFs in a 
> fax-like process, by first rasterizing each page, then PDF-ifying the 
> whole-page image to produce the PDF page.  Such PDF files can be 
> immense, even if the document appears to have no graphics whatever.

This is indeed one of those PDFs, because it is an article from a
journal published before common era, in 1955.

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071008/6ac65e08/attachment.pgp 

From florin at iucha.net  Mon Oct  8 07:53:25 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 07:53:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Laserjet 5MP slowdown problem
In-Reply-To: <200710080608.l9868XoL015172@zjod.net>
References: <20071008050103.GU8174@iucha.net>
	<200710080608.l9868XoL015172@zjod.net>
Message-ID: <20071008125325.GX8174@iucha.net>

On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 01:08:33AM -0500, Steve Siegfried wrote:
> > More than a year ago I purchased a used HP Laserjet 5MP with a low
> > page count (15k).  I connected it to my Debian server, configured it
> > in Cups and all was well.  It wasn't a speed daemon, but it printed
> > a page every other minute if it wasn't too loaded.  I have upgraded
> > the memory to the max (24MB) and that speed it up a bit.
> > 
> > Lately, the printer slowed down drastically, the new rhythm is one
> > page every 15-20 minutes!  These are PDFs, with some small graphics,
> > nothing out of the ordinary.
> > 
> > I moved the printer from my Debian server to my Ubuntu workstation.  I
> > then moved it to a Windows laptop.  It is all the same.
> > 
> > When I spool something, it starts blinking the data port and it just
> > sits there.  Maybe when the moons align just so, it spits out a page.
> > 
> > Has anybody seen this problem?  Does anybody know how to fix it?
> > Should I just take it to the curb and let the trash truck run it over?
> 
> I bought my 5MP new about 12 years ago and it's been rock solid.
> However I did later upgrade the memory to 22MB and added a duplexer.

I installed the memory a week after purchasing the printer, and it
worked at decent speed since, until about a month ago.

> I've never noticed any change in output rate when I changed from the
> old LPR to the newer CUPS.

It must have been either a kernel upgrade or a cups "upgrade".  There
is a lot of churn in the Debian testing cups packages.

> Given how old some of these printers are getting, I'd suggest re-seating
> the printer's network card and all of the memory sims.  I'd also
> suggest plugging it back into your network using a new network cable
> and a different slot on your router/hub.  If you're using the printer
> directly connected instead of on a network, try a different printer cable
> (or better yet, if it has a network card, use that instead).

No network card.  The same cable works fine from Windows.

> If that doesn't fix the problem, then using the buttons on the top,
> get into the "TEST MENU" (via the "Menu" button) and from there (via the
> "Item" button) into:
> 	"PRINT SELF TEST"
> 	"PRINT LJ5 DEMO"
> 	"PRINT PS CONFIG"
> 	"PRINT LJ5M DEMO"
> 	"CONT SELF TEST"

My printer does not have a screen.  The self-testpages (overview +
postscript) do print quickly.

> Once you get the output from these self tests, pay special attention to
> the "Self Test / Configuration" and "Menu Map" output.  If you've added
> memory (and you have), you'll might need to adjust how it's used in the
> MEM CONFIG MENU (but read the manual carefully before moving away from
> "AUTO" settings here).
> 
> In the "Menu Map" output (from the SELF TEST) you probably want:
> 	Menu Map -> MEM CONFIG MENU:
> 			I/O BUFFER    = AUTO
> 			RESRCSAVE     = AUTO
> 	         -> PARALLEL MENU:
> 			HIGH SPEED   = YES
> 			ADV FNCTNS   = ON
> 	         -> SERIAL MENU:
> 			PACING       = DTR/DSR
> 			BAUD RATE    = 9600   (yeah... 9600, sheesh!)
> 			DTR POLARITY = HI
> 	         -> POSTSCRIPT MENU:
> 			PTR PS ERRS  = OFF
> 			JAM RECOVER  = OFF
> 
> I can scan and email the "Self Test / Configuration" and "Menu Map"
> output I get if you're still having problems (or can't find/don't have
> the manual).

I do have the service manual.

> 56160 pages and counting'idly,

16014 here.  It's brand new ;)

Thanks,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071008/b930789c/attachment.pgp 

From sraun at fireopal.org  Mon Oct  8 10:41:06 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:41:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mailman question
Message-ID: <E1IeujC-0000pi-B4@fireagate.fireopal.org>

Jon Schewe asked:
> I've got a mailman list setup and I get two messages each day about
> moderator requests that are awaiting approval.  Both messages are sent
> at the same time.  I have two admins for the list and no one listed as
> the moderator.  Adding a third admin does not add a third message.  
> Does anyone know why I get these duplicate messages?  It's kind of
> annoying.

Something similar to this happened to me after a mailman upgrade a while
back - apparently the cron job that generated the monthly password
e-mails changed userid's, and the upgrade didn't delete the old one
(which still worked). I found the extra cron entry and deleted it, that
fixed my problem. Sorry, I don't remember any additional details.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From dniesen at gmail.com  Mon Oct  8 18:29:47 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 18:29:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local place stocking laptop keyboards?
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710081629p670a8ba5ha21c438fa3d8fa24@mail.gmail.com>

Does anybody know where I could find a laptop keyboard locally?

If not any store, does anybody have a spare keyboard for a Dell Latitude
D620 they'd like to part with?

-- 
Donovan Niesen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071008/ed000c1d/attachment.htm 

From thecubic at thecubic.net  Mon Oct  8 19:34:19 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:34:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: local place stocking laptop keyboards?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70710081629p670a8ba5ha21c438fa3d8fa24@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70710081629p670a8ba5ha21c438fa3d8fa24@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27902.163.231.6.87.1191890059.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>

Dell has a good parts outlet.  If you go here:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/DellPartsFamily.aspx?c=us&cs=22&l=en&RPU=1&s=dfh

There are replacement keyboards for D620 for less than $20.  A few months
ago I found a bluetooth module for my D610 on that site for $11 and it
works great.

Compare this to my off-brand laptop for which a replacement keyboard
(found by googling the part number) is about $150.

I doubt there's anything local that will sell it at retail - or they'll
resell you a keyboard they purchased from the above.

-Dave

> Does anybody know where I could find a laptop keyboard locally?
>
> If not any store, does anybody have a spare keyboard for a Dell Latitude
> D620 they'd like to part with?
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>


From strayf at freeshell.org  Tue Oct  9 10:42:31 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:42:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Apt-get caching old IP address?
Message-ID: <470BA167.9060804@freeshell.org>

On a machine running Ubuntu Feisty, running "aptitude update" or "apt-get
update" times out while trying to connect to security.ubuntu.com:

Err http://security.ubuntu.com feisty-security Release.gpg
  Could not connect to security.ubuntu.com:80 (82.211.81.138), connection
timed out

However, if I run "host security.ubuntu.com" I get:

security.ubuntu.com has address 91.189.88.31
security.ubuntu.com has address 91.189.88.37

Somehow the box seems to be holding onto an old IP address for
security.ubuntu.com and won't let it go. It's been doing this for several days
now. I managed to get the updates by plugging the numeric IP address into my
sources.list, but when I switch back to the dns name the timeouts resume, even
after a reboot. I'm not behind a proxy or anything like that.

Any thoughts on flushing the old ip address if indeed that's the case?

-Steve



From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 12:36:37 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:36:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Apt-get caching old IP address?
In-Reply-To: <470BA167.9060804@freeshell.org>
References: <470BA167.9060804@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710091036y1954a6efr633adc59a8ac0ed6@mail.gmail.com>

> Any thoughts on flushing the old ip address if indeed that's the case?

If DNS information is persisting after a reboot I can think of three
possible causes:

#1: You have a static mapping for security.ubuntu.com in your /etc/hosts file.

#2: Your DNS server is holding cached records. This could be proper,
as an update to DNS may have been required but the TTL on the previous
information hasn't yet expired, or the DNS server could have it's own
static map or needs a kick in the seat.

#3: security.ubuntu.com may be in a round robin DNS configuration for
load balancing and one of the servers in the round robin is down.

#1 is easy enough to fix. #2 is fixable by flushing the cache of your
DNS server. Restarting the DNS service on that machine will have the
same effect. Your router may be acting as a DNS server for your
network. If it's your ISP...good luck with  their phone support.If
it's #3 there isn't anything you can do, the Ubuntu folks would have
to fix that.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From strayf at freeshell.org  Tue Oct  9 13:10:49 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:10:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Apt-get caching old IP address?
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020710091036y1954a6efr633adc59a8ac0ed6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <470BA167.9060804@freeshell.org>
	<e3a54b020710091036y1954a6efr633adc59a8ac0ed6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470BC429.7070502@freeshell.org>

Andrew Zbikowski wrote:
>> Any thoughts on flushing the old ip address if indeed that's the case?
> 
> If DNS information is persisting after a reboot I can think of three
> possible causes:
> 
> #1: You have a static mapping for security.ubuntu.com in your /etc/hosts file.

Nope, it's not in there.

> #2: Your DNS server is holding cached records. This could be proper,
> as an update to DNS may have been required but the TTL on the previous
> information hasn't yet expired, or the DNS server could have it's own
> static map or needs a kick in the seat.

If that were the case, wouldn't I see the same stale information when I run
host or nslookup from the command line as well? As it is these are giving me
the correct info, but aptitude and apt-get are not.

> #3: security.ubuntu.com may be in a round robin DNS configuration for
> load balancing and one of the servers in the round robin is down.

I think you're right about this, but for some reason it's just not letting go
of the old association.

I'll try filing a bug report.

-Steve



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Oct  9 14:28:51 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:28:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710091928.l99JSp803737@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: P3 700 or better 

lots for sale $50.00 or less. Have Ubuntu loaded. Call Nick at 651-456-5760.

Seller Email address: sagerj2 at qwest dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct 10 09:04:50 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:04:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] smtp auth
Message-ID: <37727.66.103.176.15.1192025090.squirrel@lctn.org>

I am attempting to set up smtp auth on a centos 4.3 box. Currently
sendmail-8.13.1-3.2.el4.rpm is installed. I want to upgrade to 8.14, which
has built in cyrus-sasl support. I attempted a rebuild of a src.rpm to do
this, but it complained about a number of different dependencies. I am not
finding any docs on how to successfully get to 8.14 on this distro, so am
about ready to install from source. Of course there are a number of
dependencies:

error: Failed dependencies:
        /usr/sbin/sendmail is needed by (installed) redhat-lsb-3.0-8.EL.i386
        /usr/sbin/sendmail is needed by (installed)
squirrelmail-1.4.8-4.0.1.el4.centos.noarch
        smtpdaemon is needed by (installed) mdadm-1.12.0-2.i386
        smtpdaemon is needed by (installed) mutt-1.4.1-12.0.3.el4.i386
        smtpdaemon is needed by (installed) fetchmail-6.2.5-6.0.1.el4.i386
        sendmail is needed by (installed) rt-mail-dispatcher-3.4.5-2.noarch

Will the dependencies work again with the new, source 8.14 install?


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Wed Oct 10 10:47:15 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:47:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] smtp auth
In-Reply-To: <37727.66.103.176.15.1192025090.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <37727.66.103.176.15.1192025090.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710101044080.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> Will the dependencies work again with the new, source 8.14 install?

  No, source-based installs don't put entries in the rpmdb.  You might be 
better off trying to rebuild the sendmail SRPM from, say, Fedora 7 (which 
has 8.14.1).

      Jima


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct 10 13:33:46 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:33:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] smtp auth
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710101044080.4486@beer.tclug.org>
References: <37727.66.103.176.15.1192025090.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0710101044080.4486@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <32328.64.8.149.210.1192041226.squirrel@lctn.org>


>   No, source-based installs don't put entries in the rpmdb.  You might be
> better off trying to rebuild the sendmail SRPM from, say, Fedora 7 (which
> has 8.14.1).
>


That is exactly what I attempted to do, but it complained about
tcp_wrappers, and tcp_wrappers complained about other dependencies, etc...

It was the Fedora 7 sendmail srpm I was using.


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct 10 13:38:28 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:38:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10,
	6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <200710051122.11616.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710051122.11616.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!

Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or
things to discuss, just let me know.

NOTE:  there is a room change.  This is a smaller room in the main part of
the building.  

 Date: Wed, Oct 10th
 Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
 University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-110
 200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455



> On Wednesday 03 October 2007 11:05:53 pm Munir Nassar wrote:
> > On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
> > > If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I just
> > > need to reserve the room.  Up for it?
> >
> > i'm up for it. tell me where and when.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From florin at iucha.net  Wed Oct 10 15:04:12 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:04:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10,
	6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<fa17c9630710032105r756fb181ydc0a3aa8269ce0e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710051122.11616.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>

On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 01:38:28PM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> 
> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or
> things to discuss, just let me know.

Then top posting!

And trimming headers.

I propose talking about thread hijacking.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/b3691864/attachment.pgp 

From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Oct 10 15:11:21 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:11:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10,
	6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> I propose talking about thread hijacking.

How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line intact to 
promote the original idea?   

:)

Jeremy

> > The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> >
> > Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or
> > things to discuss, just let me know.
>
> Then top posting!
>
> And trimming headers.
>
> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>
> florin




From trnja001 at umn.edu  Wed Oct 10 15:36:07 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:36:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10,
 6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
	<200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <470D37B7.1080607@umn.edu>

Someone should take especially good notes for me. I wanted to go but as 
with every Wednesday, I'll be in night class from 6 to 9.

Jeremy wrote:
>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>     
>
> How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line intact to 
> promote the original idea?   
>
> :)
>
> Jeremy
>
>   
>>> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>>>
>>> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or
>>> things to discuss, just let me know.
>>>       
>> Then top posting!
>>
>> And trimming headers.
>>
>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>
>> florin
>>     
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From florin at iucha.net  Wed Oct 10 15:44:40 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:44:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Stopping e-mail terrorism! Was: TCLUG Meeting
	Announcement:	Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
	<200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <20071010204440.GF7854@iucha.net>

On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 03:11:21PM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
> > I propose talking about thread hijacking.
> 
> How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line intact to 
> promote the original idea?   

Sure, we can go as deep as you want 8^)

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/4aacc4a9/attachment.pgp 

From jeruvin at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 15:58:21 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:58:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tonight, Wed Oct 10,
	6:30 - 8:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <470D37B7.1080607@umn.edu>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
	<200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <470D37B7.1080607@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811@mail.gmail.com>

Someone should record the meeting and place them on the internet. That would
be neat.

jason

On 10/10/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> Someone should take especially good notes for me. I wanted to go but as
> with every Wednesday, I'll be in night class from 6 to 9.
>
> Jeremy wrote:
> >> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
> >>
> >
> > How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line intact
> to
> > promote the original idea?
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> >>> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> >>>
> >>> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics
> or
> >>> things to discuss, just let me know.
> >>>
> >> Then top posting!
> >>
> >> And trimming headers.
> >>
> >> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
> >>
> >> florin
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/14a15a2b/attachment.htm 

From thecubic at thecubic.net  Wed Oct 10 21:51:01 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:51:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] smtp auth
In-Reply-To: <32328.64.8.149.210.1192041226.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <37727.66.103.176.15.1192025090.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0710101044080.4486@beer.tclug.org>
	<32328.64.8.149.210.1192041226.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <15942.163.231.6.86.1192071061.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>

> That is exactly what I attempted to do, but it complained about
> tcp_wrappers, and tcp_wrappers complained about other dependencies, etc...
>
> It was the Fedora 7 sendmail srpm I was using.

You're in a bit of a corner here.  CentOS/RHEL is designed not to have the
cutting-edge software and instead is centered on version stability, like
all enterprise distributions are.  Virtually anything you do to bolt on
the newer sendmail will send you into version-dependency hell (see last
sentence for why) or be done outside the package management system and
will be overwritten when CentOS/RHEL updates sendmail and potentially
cause other runtime problems.

Definitely don't try what ESR did and try to fight rpm (--force --nodeps)
- I guarantee it will win :)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Oct 11 00:01:29 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:01:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] smtp auth
In-Reply-To: <15942.163.231.6.86.1192071061.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>
References: <37727.66.103.176.15.1192025090.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0710101044080.4486@beer.tclug.org>
	<32328.64.8.149.210.1192041226.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<15942.163.231.6.86.1192071061.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710102352130.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Dave Carlson wrote:
> You're in a bit of a corner here.  CentOS/RHEL is designed not to have 
> the cutting-edge software and instead is centered on version stability, 
> like all enterprise distributions are.

  Bingo.  RHEL/CentOS are (IMO) good at what they do, Fedora is good at 
what it does.  Mixing and matching gets a little problematic unless you're 
a packaging guru.

> Virtually anything you do to bolt on the newer sendmail will send you 
> into version-dependency hell (see last sentence for why) or be done 
> outside the package management system and will be overwritten when 
> CentOS/RHEL updates sendmail and potentially cause other runtime 
> problems.

  You're half right here, except CentOS 4 will never update sendmail as far 
as 8.14.  Heck, even CentOS 5 is only up to 8.13.8; it'd probably be until 
5.1 or 6 before it gets close to endangering the RPM, and even then, 
that'd probably be what he'd want (unless he's patching in extra 
functionality, which he hasn't mentioned).
  Just an off-the-cuff guess; the Fedora 7 sendmail SRPM probably has a 
BuildReq for tcp_wrappers-devel.  tcp_wrapper-devel was split off between 
FC6 and F7 -- before F7, the functionality was in the main tcp_wrappers 
RPM.  Removing that -devel might get past that hurdle (although another 
one might take its place).

> Definitely don't try what ESR did and try to fight rpm (--force --nodeps)
> - I guarantee it will win :)

  Number one rule if you're thinking about using --force or --nodeps: 
You're probably doing something wrong.

      Jima


From canito at dalan.us  Thu Oct 11 17:03:02 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (David Alanis)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:03:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
	<200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <470D37B7.1080607@umn.edu>
	<6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071011170302.tuzroditlccks044@mail.dalan.us>

So I just started working for this young/small but fastly growing  
software development firm.

Three of us which make up the IT team:

1. Tommy the network admin who runs like a chicken with his head cut  
off attempting to appease all the executives/employees/clients we come  
in contact with (extremely smart, well mannered, and posses great  
personal skills.

2. Jimmy who is the Technical Support for their latest and greatest  
developments (sorta sadly the pee-on) basic Windows knowledge.

3. Me - ADD, multiple personality, attention deficit disorder and all  
- but some what smart. So I get paid to sit and watch how these two  
very nice guys lead very miserable lives.

Tommy sits on the phone half the freaking day chasing down vendors  
purchasing licenses, upgrading licenses, purchasing additional  
exchange accounts because all of the sudden the project manager's  
e-mail account is too small to hold all their information. It's a mad  
house.

So, funny enough (I guess) he got the weekly reports for one of our  
only  main application - our virus scanner. He went on to talk about  
how he can't afford this, how we can't afford that.... All this  
bureaucratic non sense. I made the disclaimer before I opened my big  
mouth why don't we simply introduce open source! "brilliant idea award  
of the year should go to - me".... Yes, the response that we got was  
and who is going to have time to manage/set-up/ and maintain such thing?

Fool, one of them is talking and the other one is in front of you  
moron!!! Us - I says!!!

You know they want to pay this insane amount of money for some doped  
up firewall we don't need just yet. They are talking about owning our  
own exchange server and part of the reason we have not jumped to it is  
the cost of the IT professional we will have to hire to maintain this  
beast....

I can't believe this crap, I mean I by no means are the sendmail or  
open-xchange god but for crying out loud why can't we be more open  
source minded, save money and give us IT folks a raise (or a pad on  
the back). I'd figured I am young enough to start a small iptables  
server and grow with it.

I guess all said and done I says to Tommy - listen I am not trying to  
step on your toes but I do this for fun and am open to help or answer  
any questions (of course with the help of tclug)...

Anyway, I feel this would be great to earn brownie points on my resume  
by expanding my skills and experience.

So does anyone have any suggestions how to break the ice? How to bring  
this up with out hurting any one's feelings? We are small enough  
($$$$) and definitely have the money to afford an outside consultant  
with his MCSE and all but hmmm.. I feel that is such an 80's thing and  
plus if need be we can hire an experience consultant from TCLUG to  
come and tune up our systems!?!?!

Here are some facts:

1. I have been here 1 month.

2. Tommy is a Navy veteran (thinking will never be able to change his  
mind of thought about open source solutions)

3. We need changes soon "system critical!"

Suggestions please!!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From bunjee at charter.net  Thu Oct 11 19:27:28 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:27:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1192122005.16490.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>

Why is it so damned hard to connect to the internet using Linux? That's
one of the biggest beefs I have about the OS. I've currently got Sabayon
3.3and can't connect. I tried to burn an ISO of 3.4f with burn cdcc &
could not do it. If anyone has the courage to call me on the phone, I
would really appreciate it. I want to use Linux but the problem of
Internet connection always has me saying screw it!!
Please advise.
 
Danny J.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:00 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 16
 
Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
      tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
      http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
      tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
 
You can reach the person managing the list at
      tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
 
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
 
 
Today's Topics:
 
   1. Re: smtp auth (admin at lctn.org)
   2. TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10,     6:30 - 8:00
      pm (Jeremy)
   3. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 -
      8:00 pm (Florin Iucha)
   4. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 -
      8:00 pm (Jeremy)
   5. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 -
      8:00 pm (Elvedin Trnjanin)
   6. Stopping e-mail terrorism! Was: TCLUG Meeting   Announcement:
      Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm (Florin Iucha)
   7. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tonight, Wed Oct 10,  6:30 -
      8:00 pm (jason reynolds)
   8. Re: smtp auth (Dave Carlson)
   9. Re: smtp auth (Jima)
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:33:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: admin at lctn.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] smtp auth
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <32328.64.8.149.210.1192041226.squirrel at lctn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
 
 
>   No, source-based installs don't put entries in the rpmdb.  You might
be
> better off trying to rebuild the sendmail SRPM from, say, Fedora 7
(which
> has 8.14.1).
>
 
 
That is exactly what I attempted to do, but it complained about
tcp_wrappers, and tcp_wrappers complained about other dependencies,
etc...
 
It was the Fedora 7 sendmail srpm I was using.
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:38:28 -0500
From: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct
      10,   6:30 - 8:00 pm
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Cc: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <200710101338.28853.tclug at lizakowski.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
 
 
The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
 
Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or
things to discuss, just let me know.
 
NOTE:  there is a room change.  This is a smaller room in the main part
of
the building.  
 
 Date: Wed, Oct 10th
 Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
 University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room:
3-110
 200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
 
 
 
> On Wednesday 03 October 2007 11:05:53 pm Munir Nassar wrote:
> > On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
> > > If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I
just
> > > need to reserve the room.  Up for it?
> >
> > i'm up for it. tell me where and when.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:04:12 -0500
From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed
      Oct 10,     6:30 - 8:00 pm
To: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <20071010200412.GE7854 at iucha.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 01:38:28PM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> 
> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics
or
> things to discuss, just let me know.
 
Then top posting!
 
And trimming headers.
 
I propose talking about thread hijacking.
 
florin
 
-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url :
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/b3
691864/attachment-0001.pgp 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:11:21 -0500
From: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed
      Oct 10,     6:30 - 8:00 pm
To: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <200710101511.21123.tclug at lizakowski.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"
 
> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
 
How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line intact
to 
promote the original idea?   
 
:)
 
Jeremy
 
> > The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> >
> > Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics
or
> > things to discuss, just let me know.
>
> Then top posting!
>
> And trimming headers.
>
> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>
> florin
 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:36:07 -0500
From: Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed
      Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
To: tclug at lizakowski.com
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <470D37B7.1080607 at umn.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
Someone should take especially good notes for me. I wanted to go but as 
with every Wednesday, I'll be in night class from 6 to 9.
 
Jeremy wrote:
>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>     
>
> How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line
intact to 
> promote the original idea?   
>
> :)
>
> Jeremy
>
>   
>>> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>>>
>>> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics
or
>>> things to discuss, just let me know.
>>>       
>> Then top posting!
>>
>> And trimming headers.
>>
>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>
>> florin
>>     
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
 
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:44:40 -0500
From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
Subject: [tclug-list] Stopping e-mail terrorism! Was: TCLUG Meeting
      Announcement:     Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
To: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <20071010204440.GF7854 at iucha.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 03:11:21PM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
> > I propose talking about thread hijacking.
> 
> How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line
intact to 
> promote the original idea?   
 
Sure, we can go as deep as you want 8^)
 
florin
 
-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url :
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/4a
acc4a9/attachment-0001.pgp 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:58:21 -0500
From: "jason reynolds" <jeruvin at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tonight, Wed Oct
      10,   6:30 - 8:00 pm
To: "Elvedin Trnjanin" <trnja001 at umn.edu>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
      <6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
 
Someone should record the meeting and place them on the internet. That
would
be neat.
 
jason
 
On 10/10/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> Someone should take especially good notes for me. I wanted to go but
as
> with every Wednesday, I'll be in night class from 6 to 9.
>
> Jeremy wrote:
> >> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
> >>
> >
> > How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line
intact
> to
> > promote the original idea?
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> >>> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
> >>>
> >>> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any
topics
> or
> >>> things to discuss, just let me know.
> >>>
> >> Then top posting!
> >>
> >> And trimming headers.
> >>
> >> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
> >>
> >> florin
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/14
a15a2b/attachment-0001.htm 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:51:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dave Carlson" <thecubic at thecubic.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] smtp auth
To: admin at lctn.org
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
      <15942.163.231.6.86.1192071061.squirrel at castor.thecubic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
 
> That is exactly what I attempted to do, but it complained about
> tcp_wrappers, and tcp_wrappers complained about other dependencies,
etc...
>
> It was the Fedora 7 sendmail srpm I was using.
 
You're in a bit of a corner here.  CentOS/RHEL is designed not to have
the
cutting-edge software and instead is centered on version stability, like
all enterprise distributions are.  Virtually anything you do to bolt on
the newer sendmail will send you into version-dependency hell (see last
sentence for why) or be done outside the package management system and
will be overwritten when CentOS/RHEL updates sendmail and potentially
cause other runtime problems.
 
Definitely don't try what ESR did and try to fight rpm (--force
--nodeps)
- I guarantee it will win :)
 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:01:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jima <jima at beer.tclug.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] smtp auth
To: Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710102352130.4486 at beer.tclug.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
 
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Dave Carlson wrote:
> You're in a bit of a corner here.  CentOS/RHEL is designed not to have

> the cutting-edge software and instead is centered on version
stability, 
> like all enterprise distributions are.
 
  Bingo.  RHEL/CentOS are (IMO) good at what they do, Fedora is good at 
what it does.  Mixing and matching gets a little problematic unless
you're 
a packaging guru.
 
> Virtually anything you do to bolt on the newer sendmail will send you 
> into version-dependency hell (see last sentence for why) or be done 
> outside the package management system and will be overwritten when 
> CentOS/RHEL updates sendmail and potentially cause other runtime 
> problems.
 
  You're half right here, except CentOS 4 will never update sendmail as
far 
as 8.14.  Heck, even CentOS 5 is only up to 8.13.8; it'd probably be
until 
5.1 or 6 before it gets close to endangering the RPM, and even then, 
that'd probably be what he'd want (unless he's patching in extra 
functionality, which he hasn't mentioned).
  Just an off-the-cuff guess; the Fedora 7 sendmail SRPM probably has a 
BuildReq for tcp_wrappers-devel.  tcp_wrapper-devel was split off
between 
FC6 and F7 -- before F7, the functionality was in the main tcp_wrappers 
RPM.  Removing that -devel might get past that hurdle (although another 
one might take its place).
 
> Definitely don't try what ESR did and try to fight rpm (--force
--nodeps)
> - I guarantee it will win :)
 
  Number one rule if you're thinking about using --force or --nodeps: 
You're probably doing something wrong.
 
      Jima
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 
End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 16
******************************************
 
 
-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.8/1064 - Release Date:
10/11/2007 3:09 PM
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071011/050c7331/attachment-0001.htm 

From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 20:18:52 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:18:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection
In-Reply-To: <877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
References: <mailman.3.1192122005.16490.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0710111818w1986e291hfc3a7d727ead47c2@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Why is it so damned hard to connect to the internet using Linux? That's one
> of the biggest beefs I have about the OS. I've currently got Sabayon 3.3and
> can't connect. I tried to burn an ISO of 3.4f with burn cdcc & could not do
> it. If anyone has the courage to call me on the phone, I would really
> appreciate it. I want to use Linux but the problem of Internet connection
> always has me saying screw it!!

Whoa - slow down there.  First...please turn off the html email
formatting.  Done?  Okay now we'll continue.

I know nothing about Sabayon specifically, but plenty about linux in
general.  You'll need to answer a few questions to help us diagnose
what's going on.

1. What type of internet connection do you have?  Cable?  DSL? Dialup?

2. Do you have any type of router and/or modem between your PC and
your internet connection?  If so:

3. What's the IP address of your router?  I'll assume you have your
Sabayon  machine set to get an IP address via DHCP.  What IP address
is it getting?  Run an "ifconfig" command from the command line and
it'll tell you.

4. Send the output of these two commands:
a) cat /etc/resolv.conf
b) route (this usually has to be run as root)

Let's start there and see how things go.

-erik


From jon at jonhoman.com  Thu Oct 11 20:28:31 2007
From: jon at jonhoman.com (jon at jonhoman.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection
In-Reply-To: <877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
References: <mailman.3.1192122005.16490.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <3016.208.97.187.133.1192152511.squirrel@mail.jonhoman.com>

Danny J,

Which distros of Linux have you tried before? I think most should work
"out of the box" with a wired connection. Sometimes wireless is a little
trickier.

I suggest you try out Ubuntu, http://ubuntu.com . There is a new release
coming out in a week. I haven't had any problems with a wired internet
connection and wireless has gotten better with every new release, which
happen every 6 months.

Jon

> Why is it so damned hard to connect to the internet using Linux? That's
> one of the biggest beefs I have about the OS. I've currently got Sabayon
> 3.3and can't connect. I tried to burn an ISO of 3.4f with burn cdcc &
> could not do it. If anyone has the courage to call me on the phone, I
> would really appreciate it. I want to use Linux but the problem of
> Internet connection always has me saying screw it!!
> Please advise.
>
> Danny J.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:00 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 16
>
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
>       tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>       tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>       tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: smtp auth (admin at lctn.org)
>    2. TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10,     6:30 - 8:00
>       pm (Jeremy)
>    3. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 -
>       8:00 pm (Florin Iucha)
>    4. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 -
>       8:00 pm (Jeremy)
>    5. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 -
>       8:00 pm (Elvedin Trnjanin)
>    6. Stopping e-mail terrorism! Was: TCLUG Meeting   Announcement:
>       Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm (Florin Iucha)
>    7. Re: TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tonight, Wed Oct 10,  6:30 -
>       8:00 pm (jason reynolds)
>    8. Re: smtp auth (Dave Carlson)
>    9. Re: smtp auth (Jima)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:33:46 -0500 (CDT)
> From: admin at lctn.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] smtp auth
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <32328.64.8.149.210.1192041226.squirrel at lctn.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>>   No, source-based installs don't put entries in the rpmdb.  You might
> be
>> better off trying to rebuild the sendmail SRPM from, say, Fedora 7
> (which
>> has 8.14.1).
>>
>
>
> That is exactly what I attempted to do, but it complained about
> tcp_wrappers, and tcp_wrappers complained about other dependencies,
> etc...
>
> It was the Fedora 7 sendmail srpm I was using.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:38:28 -0500
> From: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed Oct
>       10,   6:30 - 8:00 pm
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Cc: tclug-announce at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <200710101338.28853.tclug at lizakowski.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>
> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics or
> things to discuss, just let me know.
>
> NOTE:  there is a room change.  This is a smaller room in the main part
> of
> the building.
>
>  Date: Wed, Oct 10th
>  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
>  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room:
> 3-110
>  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
>
>
>
>> On Wednesday 03 October 2007 11:05:53 pm Munir Nassar wrote:
>> > On 10/3/07, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>> > > If you're seriously offering, we can do it on Wed the 10th.  I
> just
>> > > need to reserve the room.  Up for it?
>> >
>> > i'm up for it. tell me where and when.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:04:12 -0500
> From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed
>       Oct 10,     6:30 - 8:00 pm
> To: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20071010200412.GE7854 at iucha.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 01:38:28PM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
>> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>>
>> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics
> or
>> things to discuss, just let me know.
>
> Then top posting!
>
> And trimming headers.
>
> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: not available
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 189 bytes
> Desc: Digital signature
> Url :
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/b3
> 691864/attachment-0001.pgp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:11:21 -0500
> From: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed
>       Oct 10,     6:30 - 8:00 pm
> To: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <200710101511.21123.tclug at lizakowski.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"
>
>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>
> How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line intact
> to
> promote the original idea?
>
> :)
>
> Jeremy
>
>> > The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>> >
>> > Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics
> or
>> > things to discuss, just let me know.
>>
>> Then top posting!
>>
>> And trimming headers.
>>
>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>
>> florin
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:36:07 -0500
> From: Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement:  Tonight, Wed
>       Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
> To: tclug at lizakowski.com
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <470D37B7.1080607 at umn.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Someone should take especially good notes for me. I wanted to go but as
> with every Wednesday, I'll be in night class from 6 to 9.
>
> Jeremy wrote:
>>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>>
>>
>> How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line
> intact to
>> promote the original idea?
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>>>> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>>>>
>>>> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any topics
> or
>>>> things to discuss, just let me know.
>>>>
>>> Then top posting!
>>>
>>> And trimming headers.
>>>
>>> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>>
>>> florin
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:44:40 -0500
> From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Stopping e-mail terrorism! Was: TCLUG Meeting
>       Announcement:     Tonight, Wed Oct 10, 6:30 - 8:00 pm
> To: Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20071010204440.GF7854 at iucha.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 03:11:21PM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
>> > I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>>
>> How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line
> intact to
>> promote the original idea?
>
> Sure, we can go as deep as you want 8^)
>
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: not available
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 189 bytes
> Desc: Digital signature
> Url :
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/4a
> acc4a9/attachment-0001.pgp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:58:21 -0500
> From: "jason reynolds" <jeruvin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tonight, Wed Oct
>       10,   6:30 - 8:00 pm
> To: "Elvedin Trnjanin" <trnja001 at umn.edu>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
>       <6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Someone should record the meeting and place them on the internet. That
> would
> be neat.
>
> jason
>
> On 10/10/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Someone should take especially good notes for me. I wanted to go but
> as
>> with every Wednesday, I'll be in night class from 6 to 9.
>>
>> Jeremy wrote:
>> >> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>> >>
>> >
>> > How about replying to a thread hijacker, leaving the Subject line
> intact
>> to
>> > promote the original idea?
>> >
>> > :)
>> >
>> > Jeremy
>> >
>> >
>> >>> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>> >>>
>> >>> Munir will be talking about iptables.  If anyone else has any
> topics
>> or
>> >>> things to discuss, just let me know.
>> >>>
>> >> Then top posting!
>> >>
>> >> And trimming headers.
>> >>
>> >> I propose talking about thread hijacking.
>> >>
>> >> florin
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071010/14
> a15a2b/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:51:01 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "Dave Carlson" <thecubic at thecubic.net>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] smtp auth
> To: admin at lctn.org
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
>       <15942.163.231.6.86.1192071061.squirrel at castor.thecubic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>> That is exactly what I attempted to do, but it complained about
>> tcp_wrappers, and tcp_wrappers complained about other dependencies,
> etc...
>>
>> It was the Fedora 7 sendmail srpm I was using.
>
> You're in a bit of a corner here.  CentOS/RHEL is designed not to have
> the
> cutting-edge software and instead is centered on version stability, like
> all enterprise distributions are.  Virtually anything you do to bolt on
> the newer sendmail will send you into version-dependency hell (see last
> sentence for why) or be done outside the package management system and
> will be overwritten when CentOS/RHEL updates sendmail and potentially
> cause other runtime problems.
>
> Definitely don't try what ESR did and try to fight rpm (--force
> --nodeps)
> - I guarantee it will win :)
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:01:29 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Jima <jima at beer.tclug.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] smtp auth
> To: Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0710102352130.4486 at beer.tclug.org>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Dave Carlson wrote:
>> You're in a bit of a corner here.  CentOS/RHEL is designed not to have
>
>> the cutting-edge software and instead is centered on version
> stability,
>> like all enterprise distributions are.
>
>   Bingo.  RHEL/CentOS are (IMO) good at what they do, Fedora is good at
> what it does.  Mixing and matching gets a little problematic unless
> you're
> a packaging guru.
>
>> Virtually anything you do to bolt on the newer sendmail will send you
>> into version-dependency hell (see last sentence for why) or be done
>> outside the package management system and will be overwritten when
>> CentOS/RHEL updates sendmail and potentially cause other runtime
>> problems.
>
>   You're half right here, except CentOS 4 will never update sendmail as
> far
> as 8.14.  Heck, even CentOS 5 is only up to 8.13.8; it'd probably be
> until
> 5.1 or 6 before it gets close to endangering the RPM, and even then,
> that'd probably be what he'd want (unless he's patching in extra
> functionality, which he hasn't mentioned).
>   Just an off-the-cuff guess; the Fedora 7 sendmail SRPM probably has a
> BuildReq for tcp_wrappers-devel.  tcp_wrapper-devel was split off
> between
> FC6 and F7 -- before F7, the functionality was in the main tcp_wrappers
> RPM.  Removing that -devel might get past that hurdle (although another
> one might take its place).
>
>> Definitely don't try what ESR did and try to fight rpm (--force
> --nodeps)
>> - I guarantee it will win :)
>
>   Number one rule if you're thinking about using --force or --nodeps:
> You're probably doing something wrong.
>
>       Jima
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 16
> ******************************************
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.8/1064 - Release Date:
> 10/11/2007 3:09 PM
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>




From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 21:23:46 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:23:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection
In-Reply-To: <3016.208.97.187.133.1192152511.squirrel@mail.jonhoman.com>
References: <mailman.3.1192122005.16490.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
	<3016.208.97.187.133.1192152511.squirrel@mail.jonhoman.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0710111923k4b65453fi619eae664290d85d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/07, jon at jonhoman.com <jon at jonhoman.com> wrote:
>
> I suggest you try out Ubuntu, http://ubuntu.com . There is a new release
> coming out in a week. I haven't had any problems with a wired internet
> connection and wireless has gotten better with every new release, which
> happen every 6 months.

I'll second the recommendation for Ubuntu.  It's my first
recommendation for people that are just starting out with linux.
Ubuntu has a very nice installer, and it does a *great* job at
hardware detection/configuration.

-erik


From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com  Thu Oct 11 21:46:25 2007
From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:46:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection
In-Reply-To: <877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
References: <877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <470EE001.9080909@b-o-b.homelinux.com>

Danny wrote:
> Why is it so damned hard to connect to the internet using Linux? That's 
> one of the biggest beefs I have about the OS. I've currently got Sabayon 
> 3.3and can?t connect. I tried to burn an ISO of 3.4f with burn cdcc & 
> could not do it. If anyone has the courage to call me on the phone, I 
> would really appreciate it. I want to use Linux but the problem of 
> Internet connection always has me saying screw it!!
> 
> Please advise.
> 
>  
> 
> Danny J.

I have been using Linux since 1998, and never once had a problem 
connecting to the internet.  It is damned easy!

So, without any data to work with, I recommend that you try a live cd 
like knoppix first.  If knoppix gets you connected then your hardware is 
all good. Then ditch your Sabayon and try a real distro like Slackware 
(flame retardant suit activated).  Or if your hell bent on using 
Sabayon, then you need to give us more to work with to help you.

Good Luck!

Bob De Mars




From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 09:10:15 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux, Active directory and group policy
Message-ID: <579c6fd30710120710m5def52e2q95dd1215b0efec20@mail.gmail.com>

I'm curious how people handle group policy in windows networks that
use Linux and Samba.

Is it possible to replace AD with Samba and then run only Group Policy
on a Windows server? Or is the group policy stuff too tightly
integrate with AD?

Are there other alternatives? I'm not looking to really lock down
desktop computers (although that might be a nice option) as I am in
pushing settings like redirecting a folder to a network share and
software installs/updates.

Thanks


From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Fri Oct 12 09:39:47 2007
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04 at smumn.edu)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:39:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cc: re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
Message-ID: <2007101214394783e449bb5d@mail.smumn.edu>

Thank you for those whom responded.

I have another question/request.

I have done some googling also trying to put together a proposal for the initial step for a perimeter firewall.

Anyone have case studies (or can lead me to any) which displays the cost savings of implementing Open Source against proprietary applications?


Thanks,
David

On Thursday, October 11, 2007  5:03 PM, David Alanis wrote:
>
>Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:03:02 -0500
>From: David Alanis
>To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>Subject: [tclug-list] TO: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
>
>So I just started working for this young/small but fastly growing
>software development firm.
>
>Three of us which make up the IT team:
>
>1. Tommy the network admin who runs like a chicken with his head cut
>off attempting to appease all the executives/employees/clients we come
>in contact with (extremely smart, well mannered, and posses great
>personal skills.
>
>2. Jimmy who is the Technical Support for their latest and greatest
>developments (sorta sadly the pee-on) basic Windows knowledge.
>
>3. Me - ADD, multiple personality, attention deficit disorder and all
>- but some what smart. So I get paid to sit and watch how these two
>very nice guys lead very miserable lives.
>
>Tommy sits on the phone half the freaking day chasing down vendors
>purchasing licenses, upgrading licenses, purchasing additional
>exchange accounts because all of the sudden the project manager's
>e-mail account is too small to hold all their information. It's a mad
>house.
>
>So, funny enough (I guess) he got the weekly reports for one of our
>only  main application - our virus scanner. He went on to talk about
>how he can't afford this, how we can't afford that.... All this
>bureaucratic non sense. I made the disclaimer before I opened my big
>mouth why don't we simply introduce open source! "brilliant idea award
>of the year should go to - me".... Yes, the response that we got was
>and who is going to have time to manage/set-up/ and maintain such thing?
>
>Fool, one of them is talking and the other one is in front of you
>moron!!! Us - I says!!!
>
>You know they want to pay this insane amount of money for some doped
>up firewall we don't need just yet. They are talking about owning our
>own exchange server and part of the reason we have not jumped to it is
>the cost of the IT professional we will have to hire to maintain this
>beast....
>
>I can't believe this crap, I mean I by no means are the sendmail or
>open-xchange god but for crying out loud why can't we be more open
>source minded, save money and give us IT folks a raise (or a pad on
>the back). I'd figured I am young enough to start a small iptables
>server and grow with it.
>
>I guess all said and done I says to Tommy - listen I am not trying to
>step on your toes but I do this for fun and am open to help or answer
>any questions (of course with the help of tclug)...
>
>Anyway, I feel this would be great to earn brownie points on my resume
>by expanding my skills and experience.
>
>So does anyone have any suggestions how to break the ice? How to bring
>this up with out hurting any one's feelings? We are small enough
>($$$$) and definitely have the money to afford an outside consultant
>with his MCSE and all but hmmm.. I feel that is such an 80's thing and
>plus if need be we can hire an experience consultant from TCLUG to
>come and tune up our systems!?!?!
>
>Here are some facts:
>
>1. I have been here 1 month.
>
>2. Tommy is a Navy veteran (thinking will never be able to change his
>mind of thought about open source solutions)
>
>3. We need changes soon "system critical!"
>
>Suggestions please!!!!
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" - Einstein

"Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!"




From trnja001 at umn.edu  Fri Oct 12 10:39:16 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:39:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cc: re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open
 Source
In-Reply-To: <2007101214394783e449bb5d@mail.smumn.edu>
References: <2007101214394783e449bb5d@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <470F9524.7030708@umn.edu>

Are you experienced enough with that firewall or any software, that 
you're confident the implementation of it will go smoothly? Would you be 
able to train others to be competent enough to maintain it? I've found 
(albeit in my limited experience) that those two things are more 
important and decisive than any case study you can present.

SDALAN04 at smumn.edu wrote:
> Thank you for those whom responded.
>
> I have another question/request.
>
> I have done some googling also trying to put together a proposal for the initial step for a perimeter firewall.
>
> Anyone have case studies (or can lead me to any) which displays the cost savings of implementing Open Source against proprietary applications?
>
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
> On Thursday, October 11, 2007  5:03 PM, David Alanis wrote:
>   
>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:03:02 -0500
>> From: David Alanis
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Subject: [tclug-list] TO: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
>>
>> So I just started working for this young/small but fastly growing
>> software development firm.
>>
>> Three of us which make up the IT team:
>>
>> 1. Tommy the network admin who runs like a chicken with his head cut
>> off attempting to appease all the executives/employees/clients we come
>> in contact with (extremely smart, well mannered, and posses great
>> personal skills.
>>
>> 2. Jimmy who is the Technical Support for their latest and greatest
>> developments (sorta sadly the pee-on) basic Windows knowledge.
>>
>> 3. Me - ADD, multiple personality, attention deficit disorder and all
>> - but some what smart. So I get paid to sit and watch how these two
>> very nice guys lead very miserable lives.
>>
>> Tommy sits on the phone half the freaking day chasing down vendors
>> purchasing licenses, upgrading licenses, purchasing additional
>> exchange accounts because all of the sudden the project manager's
>> e-mail account is too small to hold all their information. It's a mad
>> house.
>>
>> So, funny enough (I guess) he got the weekly reports for one of our
>> only  main application - our virus scanner. He went on to talk about
>> how he can't afford this, how we can't afford that.... All this
>> bureaucratic non sense. I made the disclaimer before I opened my big
>> mouth why don't we simply introduce open source! "brilliant idea award
>> of the year should go to - me".... Yes, the response that we got was
>> and who is going to have time to manage/set-up/ and maintain such thing?
>>
>> Fool, one of them is talking and the other one is in front of you
>> moron!!! Us - I says!!!
>>
>> You know they want to pay this insane amount of money for some doped
>> up firewall we don't need just yet. They are talking about owning our
>> own exchange server and part of the reason we have not jumped to it is
>> the cost of the IT professional we will have to hire to maintain this
>> beast....
>>
>> I can't believe this crap, I mean I by no means are the sendmail or
>> open-xchange god but for crying out loud why can't we be more open
>> source minded, save money and give us IT folks a raise (or a pad on
>> the back). I'd figured I am young enough to start a small iptables
>> server and grow with it.
>>
>> I guess all said and done I says to Tommy - listen I am not trying to
>> step on your toes but I do this for fun and am open to help or answer
>> any questions (of course with the help of tclug)...
>>
>> Anyway, I feel this would be great to earn brownie points on my resume
>> by expanding my skills and experience.
>>
>> So does anyone have any suggestions how to break the ice? How to bring
>> this up with out hurting any one's feelings? We are small enough
>> ($$$$) and definitely have the money to afford an outside consultant
>> with his MCSE and all but hmmm.. I feel that is such an 80's thing and
>> plus if need be we can hire an experience consultant from TCLUG to
>> come and tune up our systems!?!?!
>>
>> Here are some facts:
>>
>> 1. I have been here 1 month.
>>
>> 2. Tommy is a Navy veteran (thinking will never be able to change his
>> mind of thought about open source solutions)
>>
>> 3. We need changes soon "system critical!"
>>
>> Suggestions please!!!!
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>     
>
>
>
>
> "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" - Einstein
>
> "Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!"
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 11:17:55 2007
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:17:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0710111818w1986e291hfc3a7d727ead47c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3.1192122005.16490.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<877B63B9B0B94E59A7871974113A8FE1@JohnnyPC>
	<fc40260f0710111818w1986e291hfc3a7d727ead47c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a0710120917g4161c60bsc7082d726ad50b32@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/07, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
> I know nothing about Sabayon specifically, but plenty about linux in
> general.  You'll need to answer a few questions to help us diagnose
> what's going on.

For starters, Sabayon is gentoo.  Apparently their goal is to have
their installer produce a system that looks really nice, but is
completely compatible with gentoo.  (I'm assuming that by that, they
mean it will work with the portage system properly, and everything
else will be familiar to gentoo users...?)
I had some free time and a spare box, and decided to poke around a
bit, and I found the same issue that Danny is seeing.  Pretty
frustrating, actually!  The networking works just fine, but something
to do with DNS is broken.  I can ping anything (LAN or WAN) by IP, but
nothing WAN by name.
I did some googling and found that this is a known issue.
http://www.sabayonlinux.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=9677
There has been a bug filed for this issue, and there is a temporary
workaround, but not a permanent fix yet.  I tried the workaround, with
great success.
http://bugs.sabayonlinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=282

FWIW, I had previously installed Ubuntu 7.04 on this computer, and it
just worked for everything except having a proper display resolution
for the hardware I'm using.
I did use the mini install from Sabayon instead of the full install,
and it left me missing a lot of things that I would like to see in a
default install.  (vi/emacs/pico, links/linx, dig/nslookup to name a
few)

- Justin


From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 11:40:04 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:40:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux, Active directory and group policy
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30710120710m5def52e2q95dd1215b0efec20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30710120710m5def52e2q95dd1215b0efec20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710120940t1b9c04b1sa176964d8e1c8ef3@mail.gmail.com>

If you really want to use group policy, your best bet is a Windows
2003 AD server. If at all possible you'll want to have at least two AD
servers for redundancy, fail over, etc. If you're looking into it at
this point and you're going to do any sort of licensing with Microsoft
you'll want to look into Software Assurance. Group Policy improves
with every iteration of the Windows Server OS, and 2008 is looking
really good. It sounds like you're looking at a new AD implementation?
If so, you'll want to go with native mode. Native mode means that all
domain controllers must be at the same version of Windows. Mixed mode
should be used for transitioning versions.

As for integrating Samba and Linux, the answer is Kerberos and Samba.
Samba knows how to participate in an Active Directory domain as a
Member Server. With winbind it can authenticate AD users. There's even
a PAM winbind module.

You can also setup authentication via Kerberos if you want to use
Kerberos aware services on your Linux computers. I haven't tried this
in earnest, but to get this all working I imaging you'll become
familiar with the ADSI Edit and setspn Windows tools.

Samba as a Domain controller emulates at NT4 style domain, so you
won't have access to anything group policy.

I'm not aware of any real alternatives to Windows Servers + AD. Novell
+ Zen maybe, I've got some Novell experience but it's on old versions.
When you're looking at managing Windows clients, Active Directory is
the right tool for the job.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 11:58:24 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:58:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cc: re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open
	Source
In-Reply-To: <470F9524.7030708@umn.edu>
References: <2007101214394783e449bb5d@mail.smumn.edu>
	<470F9524.7030708@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710120958x40e151fcm1d46789adcbc22d3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/12/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
> Are you experienced enough with that firewall or any software, that
> you're confident the implementation of it will go smoothly? Would you be
> able to train others to be competent enough to maintain it? I've found
> (albeit in my limited experience) that those two things are more
> important and decisive than any case study you can present.

Without a doubt. Corporate firewalls are very important these days, so
a commercial firewall isn't necessarily a bad thing. Depending on the
size of your company and your requirments, there are many commercial
products that run embedded OSS. Watchguard Firebox products and Astaro
Security Gateway run their own embedded versions of Linux. (At least
the Fireboxes used to, I haven't looked at one in a few years so
things may have changed.)

Anything new in IT generally starts in your server room/data
center/infrastructure, not on the client side. Where is OSS going to
fit in in your environment? A internal web server, perhaps running a
Wiki (Dokuwiki is nice for quick technical documentation) to document
your IT infrastructure/coding project/etc. is an easy sell. A Nagios,
Big Brother, or similar network monitoring package is also a good
project if you don't already have something for that role. Find
problems/issues that can be solved with OSS, going OSS just for the
sake of going OSS is going about things in the wrong direction.

If you want an OSS project to be successful, pushing it as free, OSS,
Linux, etc. ins't the way to go. As with any solution you implement in
IT, it must be the right tool for the job. Just because it is Open
Source and Free doesn't make it the right tool for the job, but when
it is the right tool those factors are great added bonus.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From dniesen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 13:03:36 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:03:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite project management tool(s)
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710121103y50b33b49n9aa0564fdf996d18@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking at setting up a project management system for a small office.
I'm looking for something fairly easy and lightweight, preferably
web-based.

I've used Flyspray (http://www.flyspray.org) for things like this in the
past and have been very impressed with it.  It is geared more towards bug
tracking but can be customized to feel more like a project management app.

Before I make any final decisions I thought I'd poke at the TCLUG brain
trust to see if I'm missing out on any other great packages.  I dug through
Freshmeat looking for project management and most things were either way too
heavy (large groupware suites) or no longer actively developed and
half-baked.



-- 
Donovan Niesen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071012/f43d86ea/attachment.htm 

From wilson at visi.com  Fri Oct 12 13:16:59 2007
From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:16:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Favorite project management tool(s)
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70710121103y50b33b49n9aa0564fdf996d18@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70710121103y50b33b49n9aa0564fdf996d18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35872E92-83DC-45EC-A0FD-8CE156AC6912@visi.com>

On Oct 12, 2007, at 1:03 PM, Donovan wrote:

> I'm looking at setting up a project management system for a small  
> office.  I'm looking for something fairly easy and lightweight,  
> preferably web-based.

I've had good luck with Basecamp from the 37Signals crew:

http://basecamp.37signals.com/

-Tim

-- 
Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist
Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy
mailto: wilson at visi.com  aim: tis270  blog and podcast: http:// 
technosavvy.org




From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 19:31:29 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:31:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cc: re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open
	Source
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90710121723mfabc4c6m440add63da31b910@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2007101214394783e449bb5d@mail.smumn.edu>
	<470F9524.7030708@umn.edu>
	<e3a54b020710120958x40e151fcm1d46789adcbc22d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90710121723mfabc4c6m440add63da31b910@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90710121731j50e27ffdke2fb60c83e6469d8@mail.gmail.com>

ghah.  did it again.

On 10/12/07, Bob Hartmann <bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/12/07, Andrew Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/12/07, Elvedin Trnjanin <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:
> > > Are you experienced enough with that firewall or any software, that
> > > you're confident the implementation of it will go smoothly? Would you
> > be
> > > able to train others to be competent enough to maintain it? I've found
> > > (albeit in my limited experience) that those two things are more
> > > important and decisive than any case study you can present.
> >
> > Without a doubt. Corporate firewalls are very important these days, so
> > a commercial firewall isn't necessarily a bad thing. Depending on the
> > size of your company and your requirments, there are many commercial
> > products that run embedded OSS. Watchguard Firebox products and Astaro
> > Security Gateway run their own embedded versions of Linux. (At least
> > the Fireboxes used to, I haven't looked at one in a few years so
> > things may have changed.)
> >
> > Anything new in IT generally starts in your server room/data
> > center/infrastructure, not on the client side. Where is OSS going to
> > fit in in your environment? A internal web server, perhaps running a
> > Wiki (Dokuwiki is nice for quick technical documentation) to document
> > your IT infrastructure/coding project/etc. is an easy sell. A Nagios,
> > Big Brother, or similar network monitoring package is also a good
> > project if you don't already have something for that role. Find
> > problems/issues that can be solved with OSS, going OSS just for the
> > sake of going OSS is going about things in the wrong direction.
> >
> > If you want an OSS project to be successful, pushing it as free, OSS,
> > Linux, etc. ins't the way to go. As with any solution you implement in
> > IT, it must be the right tool for the job. Just because it is Open
> > Source and Free doesn't make it the right tool for the job, but when
> > it is the right tool those factors are great added bonus.
> >
> > --
> > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> > SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
> > 0 rows returned
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> That was awesome, andyzib.  Great advice.
> Throwing up a Wiki where none exists will be very popular.  I did it many
> years ago when the average Joe didn't know what a Wiki was.  Once you get
> 'em hooked, just keep saying "no, it has to be on Linux, man."
> Then use that same box to introduce even more sedition.  :)
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071012/8c8a05f9/attachment.htm 

From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Fri Oct 12 19:48:34 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:48:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux, Active directory and group policy
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020710120940t1b9c04b1sa176964d8e1c8ef3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <579c6fd30710120710m5def52e2q95dd1215b0efec20@mail.gmail.com>
	<e3a54b020710120940t1b9c04b1sa176964d8e1c8ef3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90710121748i329c998dw1913ffaa811e8843@mail.gmail.com>

Right, ZENworks does it, but the only reason to go that way is because you
already rely on eDirectory and ZENworks for a ton of other stuff. If not,
don't.  ZENworks runs on Windows only too, but you do have to install NDS.
The GPO stuff in ZfD was a response to 2000/XP desktop managability.  From
ConslowOne, the interface ended up being the MS snapin, so ZENworks was just
3 layers in the way, if you're just talking about GPOs.

On 10/12/07, Andrew Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you really want to use group policy, your best bet is a Windows
> 2003 AD server. If at all possible you'll want to have at least two AD
> servers for redundancy, fail over, etc. If you're looking into it at
> this point and you're going to do any sort of licensing with Microsoft
> you'll want to look into Software Assurance. Group Policy improves
> with every iteration of the Windows Server OS, and 2008 is looking
> really good. It sounds like you're looking at a new AD implementation?
> If so, you'll want to go with native mode. Native mode means that all
> domain controllers must be at the same version of Windows. Mixed mode
> should be used for transitioning versions.
>
> As for integrating Samba and Linux, the answer is Kerberos and Samba.
> Samba knows how to participate in an Active Directory domain as a
> Member Server. With winbind it can authenticate AD users. There's even
> a PAM winbind module.
>
> You can also setup authentication via Kerberos if you want to use
> Kerberos aware services on your Linux computers. I haven't tried this
> in earnest, but to get this all working I imaging you'll become
> familiar with the ADSI Edit and setspn Windows tools.
>
> Samba as a Domain controller emulates at NT4 style domain, so you
> won't have access to anything group policy.
>
> I'm not aware of any real alternatives to Windows Servers + AD. Novell
> + Zen maybe, I've got some Novell experience but it's on old versions.
> When you're looking at managing Windows clients, Active Directory is
> the right tool for the job.
>
> --
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
> 0 rows returned
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071012/cd9618dd/attachment.htm 

From andyzib at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 11:03:38 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:03:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cc: re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open
	Source
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90710121731j50e27ffdke2fb60c83e6469d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2007101214394783e449bb5d@mail.smumn.edu>
	<470F9524.7030708@umn.edu>
	<e3a54b020710120958x40e151fcm1d46789adcbc22d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90710121723mfabc4c6m440add63da31b910@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90710121731j50e27ffdke2fb60c83e6469d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710130903g27433674t26dae82da056c895@mail.gmail.com>

> Throwing up a Wiki where none exists will be very popular.  I did it many
> years ago when the average Joe didn't know what a Wiki was.

I tried out the wiki feature in Sharepoint 2007 (Microsoft's Web
Portal thing...) and it pales in comparison to all of the OSS wiki
engines I've used. I've been using Dokuwiki to document a coding
project and our it resources. It's fast, easy to learn, and the pages
it generates look good with almost no effort. Just the way a wiki
should be.

And even if at some point down the road the decision to axe the Linux
server comes down and there is nothing you can do about it, apache,
php, mysql, etc. will all run on Windows. You can even run php under
IIS if you have to. Your don't have to run Linux, Open/Free/Whatever
BSD, etc. doesn't have to live on in your server room for your OSS
apps to run in your server room, though it's hard to beat apt-get
install dokuwiki. ;-)

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Oct 13 15:23:33 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 15:23:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710132023.l9DKNXO24446@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: External CD-RW and other stuff

I'm clearing out my extra computer stuff for anyone interested.  Here is what I have:

HP CD-Writer Plus 9200 Series, external SCSI CD-RW drive.  It comes with an Adaptec 2903B PCI SCSI card and cables.

ATI Radeon 9200 128MB DDR AGP video card.  DVI, Analog and S-Video outputs.  Samir, you can have this back now. :)

Hauppauge PCI NTSC TV tuner card.  Has a Bt878 chipset.  I might still have the IR remote around somewhere.

Two 700 MHz Pentium III CPUs with heat sinks.

A mounting bracket for installing a second hard drive in a TiVo Series 1.

Contact nate at refried dot org.

Seller Email address: nate-tclug at refried dot org

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Oct 13 23:54:25 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:54:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140454.l9E4sP831135@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: ISA and PCI card

Accepting offers of money, advice, good will and karma for the following:


ISA cards 
6 Modem
4 network - one with a coax type (thin wire?) connection thingy
4 video - 2 are Long arsed WinNov cards - maybe some sort of video accel or capture 1 is a cga board (i think)
4 sound cards 
3 serial / parallel
some sort of riser card (would plug into bus and hold cards perpendicular to MB)

PCI cards:

2 real magic netstream 2000 (some sort of vid card)
10 video cards
5 network
1 "cordless PCI card" by symphony no antenna
1 pci card with two phone jacks on it and a 2 lead cord to plug into somewhere on a mother board (I think this is a wakeup or shutdown a computer via phone line) made by "bridgecom)
2 modems 
1 parallel express.

john dot meier at gmail dot com

Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From chewie at wookimus.net  Sun Oct 14 00:01:15 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:01:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cc: re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open
	Source
In-Reply-To: <470F9524.7030708@umn.edu> 
References: <2007101214394783e449bb5d@mail.smumn.edu>
	<470F9524.7030708@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <25088.1192338075@skuld.wookimus.net>

There is some difference between the hardware that Cisco uses for its
routers v.s. what most Linux vendors offer, which is the Intel x86
platform.  Whether or not these differences really amount to anything is
another religious argument.  Without knowing the intimate details
involved, I cannot give advice either way.  Instead, I'm going to give
you a link to a Linux vendor that thinks they have the answer:

http://www.vyatta.com/download/whitepapers/Vyatta_Better_than_Cisco.pdf

Now, determining whether or not their claims are based on fact or simply
marketing is an exercise I leave for you.  I do know that there is
plenty of quality x86 hardware out there, and Linux knows how to do even
the trickiest of routing and firewalling.

Sorry if that wasn't really an answer you were looking for.  It's late. ;-)

Chad


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 01:19:44 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:19:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140619.l9E6Ji200379@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: computers/cases

 Beer is flowing and the stuff's gotta go.  Money, advice, karma offers accepted......

Computer/Cases

tower (mid) amdk6 case/MB w/ soundblaster ISA card 200W Power supply
generic white mid sized tower with "PC400 system board" some sort of Socket 423 processor includes board documentation and cdrom  no PS - no idea if it works.

mid sized tower Old acer aspire - 486 probably  cdrom, floppy, some memory, PS.  used it as a firewall in the old days.

mid sized tower another white box P2 400Mhz (slot A??  looks like a video game cartridge), 235W PS CROM, nic, Creative ISA card

gateway 2000 P5-75 Full tower case, MB, CPU, PS, Floppy, CDROM - Ran IPCOP with 4 zones on this baby from many a year.  Love this case...
 
mid sized tower MB, Hard drive, cdrom, PS, some memory, floppy - this is a pretty old machine as the memory sims are short in length.  Shit runs, but too lazy to dig into the bios.

john dot meier at gmail dot com

Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 01:31:44 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:31:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140631.l9E6Vig01429@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: touch screen CRT

Elo ET1525c Touch screen monitor  

VGA connection and USB for touch control

Works good - used it for "Bar like" Juke box interface.  

Best offer.....

john dot meier at gmail com

Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 01:37:18 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:37:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140637.l9E6bIp02486@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: digital CRT

Digital VRC16 CRT.  Input to monitor is a cable with a red green blue H/C and V cable.  Does this make is special?

This Cable is included.

Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 01:42:10 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:42:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140642.l9E6gA303261@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 8 Port KVM

Have two 8 port KVMs both Apex EL-80DT.
Can be daisy chained.  Also have a box full of good quality cables of various lengths.

Let's Deal!



Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 01:59:16 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:59:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140659.l9E6xG104074@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Floppy Disks!

5.25 Floppy disks:

3 boxes still in shrink rap - Sony double sided DOUBLE DENSITY 5.25 Floppies!

50 or so of the same floppy with data/software - great titles like:

Word Perfect 5.0
Windows disk #1 - #5
MTV Remote control Apple II e/c/GS
spy hunter, Pac man and other atari games, Star Trek 25h Anniversary, Pictionary, Conflict, Super Jeopardy, Wheel of fortune, Ninja Gaiden, Linux boot disk, Data from my nuclear experiments (low energy crap - no worries), lotus works

$1,000,000 OBO....

Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 02:08:25 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:08:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140708.l9E78Pj05130@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell 2450 servers

I have, in my possession, 2 (two) dell 2450 servers.  2U rack mount, memory, drives, drive trays, nice cpus etc...

if anyone's interested, let me know and I can boot 'em up and dump specs.

Let's go for a fair price on these, as I just bought them not too long ago :)


Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 02:14:45 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:14:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140714.l9E7Eji06266@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Dat Auto changer

DAT auto changer (ADIC) model 1200d.

This thing worked - well, I think it did.  It'd grab a tape, load it and all that.  I was trying to get it running under linux and then my wife gave birth to a very small human, and the whole project got shelved.

I have some tapes for it too - take it all and you'll have so much fun you'll want to send me money!



Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 02:33:33 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:33:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140733.l9E7XXC07089@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: generic server

dual P3 500 Mhz 1 gig ram, 16 Gb scsi drive.

offer?

Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 02:45:45 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:45:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710140745.l9E7jj707885@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Communication/relay rack

Relay rack - afco relay rack - taller than me - guess that makes it a 45 U or something like that.

2 shelves

want money for this.  Let me know what you'd like to pay.


Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sun Oct 14 12:13:06 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:13:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710141713.l9EHD6s13498@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: IBM Model M Keyboard

IBM Model M Keyboard.

PS/2 connector.
10' cord.

$40 OBO

nate at refried dot org

Seller Email address: nate-tclug at refried dot org

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From joey.rockhold at gmail.com  Sun Oct 14 18:15:51 2007
From: joey.rockhold at gmail.com (Joey Rockhold)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:15:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Prompted automatic shutdown
Message-ID: <101e49ea0710141615y4a7dd299r5a8c0d31e1f3bfc0@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know of a tool or script that will shutdown a linux box with the
following rules:

1)  At time y, I need to be prompted about the shutdown, whether in a
console, or in a GUI.
2)  If I do not respond to the prompt in x minutes, automatically do the
shutdown
3)  If I do respond to not shutdown, it cancels until the next day at time
y.
4)  I could be logged in as one or more of several users.  They all need
this notification.

Thanks.
- Joey
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071014/0e899977/attachment.htm 

From trnja001 at umn.edu  Sun Oct 14 20:20:38 2007
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:20:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Prompted automatic shutdown
In-Reply-To: <101e49ea0710141615y4a7dd299r5a8c0d31e1f3bfc0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <101e49ea0710141615y4a7dd299r5a8c0d31e1f3bfc0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4712C066.30302@umn.edu>

A daily script that running 'shutdown -h 2' (or any number of minutes 
you want) should do the trick. In most cases, it will give you a message 
in your GUI but it will definitely give you a warning in console. A 
simple 'shutdown -a' from root will cancel it when you get the message.  
Maybe not the absolute easiest solution but it's simple enough to 
implement in a minute or two.

Joey Rockhold wrote:
> Does anyone know of a tool or script that will shutdown a linux box 
> with the following rules:
>
> 1)  At time y, I need to be prompted about the shutdown, whether in a 
> console, or in a GUI.
> 2)  If I do not respond to the prompt in x minutes, automatically do 
> the shutdown
> 3)  If I do respond to not shutdown, it cancels until the next day at 
> time y.
> 4)  I could be logged in as one or more of several users.  They all 
> need this notification.
>
> Thanks.
> - Joey
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From tonyyarusso at comcast.net  Mon Oct 15 16:29:12 2007
From: tonyyarusso at comcast.net (Anthony Yarusso)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:29:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu release party for Minnesota
Message-ID: <4713DBA8.9020302@comcast.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey, just wanted to let everybody know that the Ubuntu Minnesota LoCo
Team will be putting on a release party to celebrate the new 7.10
"Gutsy Gibbon" release of Ubuntu this weekend.  For those of you who
are Ubuntu users (or just curious), feel free to join us.  The
relevant information is being posted to
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MinnesotaTeam/Events/GutsyGibbonReleaseParty.
This time around we only have one planned for the Twin Cities area, so
hopefully people can find a way to Minneapolis if they want to come.
We'd like to do things for other parts of the state in the future as
well though, so if you want to help organize other activities for your
area, let us know.

(Unrelated note: LUG leaders - if you are doing multi-distro
installfests, etc. in the near future, we would be interested in
working with you on such things to hold up the Ubuntu end of things,
while your other members help out with their respective distros.  Let
us know what we can do with you.)

- - Tony Yarusso
Ubuntu Minnesota, team contact
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHE9uoKlAIzV4ebxoRAkCUAKC0RsJzwhwQS6ipZ1MKpebHsl5YOQCglSBz
YO6416L3bR5sGL5Gw38xDnw=
=ULf+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Tue Oct 16 17:29:25 2007
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:29:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] MythTV - Topic @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Oct.
	27th 2007
Message-ID: <47153B45.4010904@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.net meeting will be 
Saturday October 27th at TIES, 
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 to 12:00.
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.)

I will be talking about MythTV!  I will talk about Myth TV for the first hour or so, and then I can help other users setup the second hour.

*** Please, if you want to configure the machine for MythTV be sure all hardware is in working order.  I will have limited time to diagnose and fix problems. ***

You can also look for what other people have had success with using for hardware http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-pvrhwdb.php

Thank, hope to see you there.

==>brian.

Be sure to get your new Ubuntu, 7.10 to be released in 2 days!!!




From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 16 17:48:06 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:48:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] pap2
Message-ID: <3716.10.10.1.1.1192574886.squirrel@lctn.org>

Our office purchased a dozen or so Linksys pap2 v2 boxes for our trixbox
setup, not knowing they would only work for vonage voip. It's too late to
return them, so I have been trying to unlock the boxes, and configure them
for our network. I found on a number of sites that discuss the process,
but have not had any success. All of the articles warn to keep the box
from communicating over the Internet, which I have done. The last method I
attempted was with CYT-Unlocker, which indicated that the passwords had
been changed, but I can only login as admin, admin, which will not get me
to the menus for updating the firmware. It seems from an article I found
at http://nyworldphone.wordpress.com/2006/07/ that this particular model
with serial # CH91..... is a different animal than previous units on the
market.


Any ideas, outside of buying unlocked boxes off of ebay?


From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 19:13:10 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:13:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] pap2
In-Reply-To: <3716.10.10.1.1.1192574886.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <3716.10.10.1.1.1192574886.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0710161713h6dd5d942i6201ac0ffd78cecd@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/16/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
>
> Any ideas, outside of buying unlocked boxes off of ebay?

I've heard that the pap2's aren't too difficult to unlock.  I've never
had my hands on one, though, so I can't comment further on the
unlocking issue.

How about purchasing a "real" retail ATA from a VoIP hardware vendor:

http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=320

I have several of these in production and haven't had a single issue
with them. I use these for analog conference phones only. All of my
deskphones are Linksys SPA941s (SIP).

-Erik

-- 
Erik Anderson
http://andersonfam.org


From dniesen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 19:37:25 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:37:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] pap2
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0710161713h6dd5d942i6201ac0ffd78cecd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3716.10.10.1.1.1192574886.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0710161713h6dd5d942i6201ac0ffd78cecd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710161737v7180bd55g7740d9fff0d4b432@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/16/07, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/16/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> >
> > Any ideas, outside of buying unlocked boxes off of ebay?
>
> I've heard that the pap2's aren't too difficult to unlock.  I've never
> had my hands on one, though, so I can't comment further on the
> unlocking issue.
>
> How about purchasing a "real" retail ATA from a VoIP hardware vendor:
>
> http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=320
>
> I have several of these in production and haven't had a single issue
> with them. I use these for analog conference phones only. All of my
> deskphones are Linksys SPA941s (SIP).
>
> -Erik
>
> --
> Erik Anderson
> http://andersonfam.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

Don't feel bad, I nuked 3 of these trying to unlock them too.  They're still
sitting on my shelf.  I think I got as far as getting some kind of different
firmware on there via TFTP server but got one that would dialout but
couldn't take an incoming call.

I ended up buying some Grandstream HT386 devices from Atacomm (
www.atacomm.com).  They were significantly cheaper than PAP devices and have
been working pretty well.

If you end up getting your's working I'd love to compare notes.  Wouldn't
mind getting some use out of those bricks on my shelf.


-- 
Donovan Niesen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071016/e8cc6a88/attachment.htm 

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Oct 18 21:41:35 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:41:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710190241.l9J2fZk09869@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Free books!!!

Free books:
Title, Author, ISBN, Other Info
iAPX 88 Book, Intel, N/A, All about the 8088
MS-DOS User guide and Reference, Microsoft, N/A, version 4.0 and 4.01 
The Waite Group's Essential Guide to Turbo C, N. Barkakati, 0-672-22675-8
Learning C++, Tom Swan, 0-672-22785-1, Includes 5 1/4 floppy
Special Edition: Using CGI, J. Dwight & M Erwin, 0-7897-0740-3, CDROM MIA
Special Edition: Using Java, A. Newman, et. al, 0-7897-0604-0, Includes CDROM
Jamsa's 1001 C/C++ Tips, K. Jamsa, 0-9635851-2-6, 3.5 floppy MIA
Java!, T. Ritchey, N/A (1995 New Riders Publishing),CDROm included
C Programming, A. Hanson,0-201-19444-9, N/A
Teach yourself Visual C++ 1.5 in 21 days, Namir Clement Shammas, 0-672-30489-9, (took me longer than 21 days to learn...)
Heavy Metal Visual C++, S. Holzner, N/A (Lib Congress Cat Card No. 94-077910), 3.5 floppy MIA - also must listen to Korn, Pantera, Metallica (before "Black" album) or other while using this book.

Seller Email address: john dot meier at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 07:37:26 2007
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:37:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
In-Reply-To: <20071011170302.tuzroditlccks044@mail.dalan.us>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
	<200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <470D37B7.1080607@umn.edu>
	<6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071011170302.tuzroditlccks044@mail.dalan.us>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0710190537j2be3d7fdpf971f444bbebbdf7@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/11/07, David Alanis <canito at dalan.us> wrote:

> So, funny enough (I guess) he got the weekly reports for one of our
> only  main application - our virus scanner. He went on to talk about
> how he can't afford this, how we can't afford that.... All this
> bureaucratic non sense. I made the disclaimer before I opened my big
> mouth why don't we simply introduce open source! "brilliant idea award
> of the year should go to - me".... Yes, the response that we got was
> and who is going to have time to manage/set-up/ and maintain such thing?

Upper management isn't always the easiest thing to deal with, but
usually you can talk to them in dollars.

Probably the easiest way to introduce open source is to inventory what
applications/functions you currently have.  Pick one, and look for
good open source alternatives.  Make sure that EVERY need is covered
by your open source suggestion.

Then try to figure out what that application/function is costing the
company.  Then figure out what the open source alternative would cost
(don't forget support!).  If there exists an open source alternative
that costs less and delivers the same functions and support, you have
a case.  Make a pretty report and show the boss exactly how much money
per day/year/month can be saved.

If that doesn't get through to the boss, you can try again with
another application.  It's up to you how far to push the issue.  If
your boss thinks he knows everything, and he thinks you know nothing,
you might be at a lost cause.

Good luck on the efforts!

-Brian


From canito at dalan.us  Fri Oct 19 08:03:04 2007
From: canito at dalan.us (David Alanis)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:03:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0710190537j2be3d7fdpf971f444bbebbdf7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
	<200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <470D37B7.1080607@umn.edu>
	<6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071011170302.tuzroditlccks044@mail.dalan.us>
	<2c6699da0710190537j2be3d7fdpf971f444bbebbdf7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071019080304.i9gy6ftpkow0gg8s@mail.dalan.us>

Thank you to all whom have taken time to respond.

The main problem is convincing the network admin now to agree to my  
recommendation.

I am starting to wonder because Linux is not his forte, he doesn't  
want to introduce a technology that will get him out of his job!

David


Quoting Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com>:

> On 10/11/07, David Alanis <canito at dalan.us> wrote:
>
>> So, funny enough (I guess) he got the weekly reports for one of our
>> only  main application - our virus scanner. He went on to talk about
>> how he can't afford this, how we can't afford that.... All this
>> bureaucratic non sense. I made the disclaimer before I opened my big
>> mouth why don't we simply introduce open source! "brilliant idea award
>> of the year should go to - me".... Yes, the response that we got was
>> and who is going to have time to manage/set-up/ and maintain such thing?
>
> Upper management isn't always the easiest thing to deal with, but
> usually you can talk to them in dollars.
>
> Probably the easiest way to introduce open source is to inventory what
> applications/functions you currently have.  Pick one, and look for
> good open source alternatives.  Make sure that EVERY need is covered
> by your open source suggestion.
>
> Then try to figure out what that application/function is costing the
> company.  Then figure out what the open source alternative would cost
> (don't forget support!).  If there exists an open source alternative
> that costs less and delivers the same functions and support, you have
> a case.  Make a pretty report and show the boss exactly how much money
> per day/year/month can be saved.
>
> If that doesn't get through to the boss, you can try again with
> another application.  It's up to you how far to push the issue.  If
> your boss thinks he knows everything, and he thinks you know nothing,
> you might be at a lost cause.
>
> Good luck on the efforts!
>
> -Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From thurianknight at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 08:42:48 2007
From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:42:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
Message-ID: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
something that would integrate into Active Directory.

We could roll our own of course, but thought if there was an existing
distro that would do the trick, it might save us time.

-- 
Dave Sherman
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Fri Oct 19 10:10:55 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:10:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200710191010.55650.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> We could roll our own of course, but thought if there was an existing

I was at a startup that built a very similar Linux-based Nas/San/iSCSI filer 
with AD, Novell, NFS, and Mac support.  It's not that hard to get things 
working once.  But it takes some time to wrap it with an admin interface, and 
get it working under all circumstances.  I would not suggest rolling your 
own ;)

Jeremy

On Friday 19 October 2007 8:42:48 am Dave Sherman wrote:
> Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
> such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
> something that would integrate into Active Directory.
>
> We could roll our own of course, but thought if there was an existing
> distro that would do the trick, it might save us time.




From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 10:22:45 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:22:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0710190822r43820ca3od5be083ef87f3e16@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/19/07, Dave Sherman <thurianknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
> such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
> something that would integrate into Active Directory.

How about http://www.freenas.org ?

I've heard several successful reports of people using this in
combination with AD.

-erik


From john.meier at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 10:54:06 2007
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:54:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0710190854i14c2da11h90fe3bcfbda092a5@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/19/07, Dave Sherman <thurianknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
> such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
> something that would integrate into Active Directory.



I setup a server with openfiler (used one of those dell 2450s that I
recently posted in the classifieds) not too long ago.  Was able to point it
to the AD server at the office - seemed to work - got a list of users and
groups and all that.

Took me a day to setup and configure.  Can't say it's being used as I handed
the reins over to the powers that be, but it has not been put into
"production" yet - it's just sitting there consuming power.   Original
intent was to serve up home directories and the like.

I did a few tests - setup a share, assigned group/user access - worked as
expected.  All in all, I'd say it's worth burning a day to play with it -see
if it meets your needs.

john

P.S.  Was able to install the linux version of Backupexec client on the
server and do a simple backup ...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071019/bdd3d62f/attachment.htm 

From chewie at wookimus.net  Fri Oct 19 12:28:43 2007
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:28:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0710190537j2be3d7fdpf971f444bbebbdf7@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net>
	<200710101338.28853.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net>
	<200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<470D37B7.1080607@umn.edu>
	<6eb23c4e0710101358o2861f96by3b98f58d3660f811@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071011170302.tuzroditlccks044@mail.dalan.us>
	<2c6699da0710190537j2be3d7fdpf971f444bbebbdf7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16686.1192814923@skuld.wookimus.net>

I would like offer the opposite suggestion as Brian Wall, which is to
find places where functionality is MISSING or BROKEN in the work place
and your work flow, and provide a FOSS solution for it.  That will open
doors quicker than trying to replace something that your management
views as "working".  Case in point, my first real use for Linux was to
replace a buggy Checkpoint firewall (from the late 90's).  Once I
managed to do that, another project rolled in to host the company
website on Apache.  That was followed by setting up a VPN between sites
using our firewall.  That in turn was followed by...

You get the picture.  When you find a problem that is unsolveable or too
expensive to fix in the proprietary software world, propose FOSS.  Once
they get used to having it around, it'll be easier to convince them to
use it to replace WORKING proprietary solutions.  This is the big hurdle
you must jump.

One thing you must not do is get blinded by the idea that FOSS is the
only solution.  If you don't view things pragmatically from a business
perspective or your managers' POV's, you're not going to get anywhere.
"When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail," just doesn't
work.

Chad


From thurianknight at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 12:57:39 2007
From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:57:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0710190854i14c2da11h90fe3bcfbda092a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<65293fcc0710190854i14c2da11h90fe3bcfbda092a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7bdea6e30710191057r627a917eia30bcf91a7caab83@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/19/07, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 10/19/07, Dave Sherman <thurianknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
> > such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
> > something that would integrate into Active Directory.
>
> I did a few tests - setup a share, assigned group/user access - worked as
> expected.  All in all, I'd say it's worth burning a day to play with it -see
> if it meets your needs.
>
> john
>
> P.S.  Was able to install the linux version of Backupexec client on the
> server and do a simple backup ...

Yep, I've burned about half a day since yesterday playing with it. Set
it up wrong the first time (forgot to leave room for the actual
shares), but otherwise seems to work well. AD integration took some
fiddling in /etc/krb5.conf, but otherwise it worked.

Very glad to hear that the Linux BackupExec agent works, since we were
wondering about that.

-- 
Dave Sherman
MCSA, MCSE, CCNA
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Oct 20 21:07:39 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:07:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710210207.l9L27do00938@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Houses Apartments and Roomates

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Refinance Your Home Now

Refinance Your Home Now
A refinance home loan or a home loan refinance is a new loan obtained through your lender or a new lender to pay off existing loan.
http://www.go4mortgage.com


Seller Email address: blrbindu at yahoo dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 07:18:21 2007
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:18:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0710210518w2944e385od68dbcf01a138852@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/19/07, Dave Sherman <thurianknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
> such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
> something that would integrate into Active Directory.
>
> We could roll our own of course, but thought if there was an existing
> distro that would do the trick, it might save us time.

I have played with FreeNAS a bit, and it appears to be a robust
solution.  If you're not looking for a free (beer) solution, You can
also check out Lefthand Networks.  They have a commercial product
based on FreeNAS that looks pretty nice.

-Brian


From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Sun Oct 21 08:35:35 2007
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:35:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0710210518w2944e385od68dbcf01a138852@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c6699da0710210518w2944e385od68dbcf01a138852@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a0710210635j4ca06abcw45d3d978fa8b809f@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/21/07, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have played with FreeNAS a bit, and it appears to be a robust
> solution.

Just FYI, FreeNAS is based on FreeBSD and the m0n0wall project, not
linux.  Both are excellent products, IMO.  They work great, are rock
solid, and are relatively simple to set up and maintain.  But if you
want to be technical, FreeNAS is not a "Linux-based NAS solution."
- Justin


From bunjee at charter.net  Sun Oct 21 08:56:55 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:56:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 26
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1192899604.23764.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <93A307C4366346689B634A2D394A5CEA@JohnnyPC>

I need some help with Fedora 7. I have it installed and can't connect to
the Internet. I've got the two little TV's in the upper right hand
corner of my screen that indicate the network Manager is connected, but
when I try to get on Mozilla - the message reads something like Mozilla
can't connect to the server - please try again. I have a Linksys
Ethernet bridge that picks up my router. Windows is no problem. Please
advise.
Thanx!
Danny J.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 12:00 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 26

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
      (Chad Walstrom)
   2. Re: Linux-based NAS solutions (Dave Sherman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:28:43 -0500
From: Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open
	Source
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <16686.1192814923 at skuld.wookimus.net>

I would like offer the opposite suggestion as Brian Wall, which is to
find places where functionality is MISSING or BROKEN in the work place
and your work flow, and provide a FOSS solution for it.  That will open
doors quicker than trying to replace something that your management
views as "working".  Case in point, my first real use for Linux was to
replace a buggy Checkpoint firewall (from the late 90's).  Once I
managed to do that, another project rolled in to host the company
website on Apache.  That was followed by setting up a VPN between sites
using our firewall.  That in turn was followed by...

You get the picture.  When you find a problem that is unsolveable or too
expensive to fix in the proprietary software world, propose FOSS.  Once
they get used to having it around, it'll be easier to convince them to
use it to replace WORKING proprietary solutions.  This is the big hurdle
you must jump.

One thing you must not do is get blinded by the idea that FOSS is the
only solution.  If you don't view things pragmatically from a business
perspective or your managers' POV's, you're not going to get anywhere.
"When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail," just doesn't
work.

Chad



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:57:39 -0500
From: "Dave Sherman" <thurianknight at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
To: tclug <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID:
	<7bdea6e30710191057r627a917eia30bcf91a7caab83 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 10/19/07, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 10/19/07, Dave Sherman <thurianknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
> > such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
> > something that would integrate into Active Directory.
>
> I did a few tests - setup a share, assigned group/user access - worked
as
> expected.  All in all, I'd say it's worth burning a day to play with
it -see
> if it meets your needs.
>
> john
>
> P.S.  Was able to install the linux version of Backupexec client on
the
> server and do a simple backup ...

Yep, I've burned about half a day since yesterday playing with it. Set
it up wrong the first time (forgot to leave room for the actual
shares), but otherwise seems to work well. AD integration took some
fiddling in /etc/krb5.conf, but otherwise it worked.

Very glad to hear that the Linux BackupExec agent works, since we were
wondering about that.

-- 
Dave Sherman
MCSA, MCSE, CCNA
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 26
******************************************


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.3/1082 - Release Date:
10/20/2007 2:59 PM



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Sun Oct 21 12:20:08 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:20:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 26
In-Reply-To: <93A307C4366346689B634A2D394A5CEA@JohnnyPC>
References: <93A307C4366346689B634A2D394A5CEA@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <200710211220.08724.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Is your DNS working?  

If one of these commands works, and the other doesn't, then there's a DNS 
problem.

ping yahoo.com
ping 66.94.234.13

Jeremy

On Sunday 21 October 2007 8:56:55 am Danny wrote:
> I need some help with Fedora 7. I have it installed and can't connect to
> the Internet. I've got the two little TV's in the upper right hand
> corner of my screen that indicate the network Manager is connected, but
> when I try to get on Mozilla - the message reads something like Mozilla
> can't connect to the server - please try again. I have a Linksys
> Ethernet bridge that picks up my router. Windows is no problem. Please
> advise.
> Thanx!
> Danny J.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 12:00 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 26
>
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open Source
>       (Chad Walstrom)
>    2. Re: Linux-based NAS solutions (Dave Sherman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:28:43 -0500
> From: Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Suggestions to Selling the Boss Open
> 	Source
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <16686.1192814923 at skuld.wookimus.net>
>
> I would like offer the opposite suggestion as Brian Wall, which is to
> find places where functionality is MISSING or BROKEN in the work place
> and your work flow, and provide a FOSS solution for it.  That will open
> doors quicker than trying to replace something that your management
> views as "working".  Case in point, my first real use for Linux was to
> replace a buggy Checkpoint firewall (from the late 90's).  Once I
> managed to do that, another project rolled in to host the company
> website on Apache.  That was followed by setting up a VPN between sites
> using our firewall.  That in turn was followed by...
>
> You get the picture.  When you find a problem that is unsolveable or too
> expensive to fix in the proprietary software world, propose FOSS.  Once
> they get used to having it around, it'll be easier to convince them to
> use it to replace WORKING proprietary solutions.  This is the big hurdle
> you must jump.
>
> One thing you must not do is get blinded by the idea that FOSS is the
> only solution.  If you don't view things pragmatically from a business
> perspective or your managers' POV's, you're not going to get anywhere.
> "When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail," just doesn't
> work.
>
> Chad
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:57:39 -0500
> From: "Dave Sherman" <thurianknight at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
> To: tclug <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<7bdea6e30710191057r627a917eia30bcf91a7caab83 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 10/19/07, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10/19/07, Dave Sherman <thurianknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi all, just wondering if anyone is using a Linux-based NAS solution
> > > such as OpenFiler (http://www.openfiler.com/). We're looking for
> > > something that would integrate into Active Directory.
> >
> > I did a few tests - setup a share, assigned group/user access - worked
>
> as
>
> > expected.  All in all, I'd say it's worth burning a day to play with
>
> it -see
>
> > if it meets your needs.
> >
> > john
> >
> > P.S.  Was able to install the linux version of Backupexec client on
>
> the
>
> > server and do a simple backup ...
>
> Yep, I've burned about half a day since yesterday playing with it. Set
> it up wrong the first time (forgot to leave room for the actual
> shares), but otherwise seems to work well. AD integration took some
> fiddling in /etc/krb5.conf, but otherwise it worked.
>
> Very glad to hear that the Linux BackupExec agent works, since we were
> wondering about that.
>
> --
> Dave Sherman
> MCSA, MCSE, CCNA
> Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 26
> ******************************************




From josh at tcbug.org  Sun Oct 21 13:47:10 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:47:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a0710210635j4ca06abcw45d3d978fa8b809f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c6699da0710210518w2944e385od68dbcf01a138852@mail.gmail.com>
	<27e6356a0710210635j4ca06abcw45d3d978fa8b809f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071021184710.GC75650@tcbug.org>

Justin Kremer wrote:
> On 10/21/07, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have played with FreeNAS a bit, and it appears to be a robust
> > solution.
> 
> Just FYI, FreeNAS is based on FreeBSD and the m0n0wall project, not
> linux.  Both are excellent products, IMO.  They work great, are rock
> solid, and are relatively simple to set up and maintain.  But if you
> want to be technical, FreeNAS is not a "Linux-based NAS solution."
> - Justin
> 

Don't pop their "The whole world is a linux distro" bubble please, the
implosion could be painful.

;)

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 187 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071021/212fb60b/attachment.pgp 

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Sun Oct 21 15:33:09 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:33:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <20071021184710.GC75650@tcbug.org>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c6699da0710210518w2944e385od68dbcf01a138852@mail.gmail.com>
	<27e6356a0710210635j4ca06abcw45d3d978fa8b809f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071021184710.GC75650@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211527230.394@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> Justin Kremer wrote:
>> On 10/21/07, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have played with FreeNAS a bit, and it appears to be a robust
>>> solution.
>>
>> Just FYI, FreeNAS is based on FreeBSD and the m0n0wall project, not
>> linux.  Both are excellent products, IMO.  They work great, are rock
>> solid, and are relatively simple to set up and maintain.  But if you
>> want to be technical, FreeNAS is not a "Linux-based NAS solution."
>> - Justin
>>
>
> Don't pop their "The whole world is a linux distro" bubble please, the
> implosion could be painful.


Well, not the whole world but at least it is the "L" in TCLUG.  I notice 
that your email address is at TCBUG - no "L"!

I like all unixy things but am working toward doing all my work on Linux 
(still use Solaris some due to force of habit) because it seems to be the 
most likely to succeed for the next decade or so.  I also prefer the GPL 
to the BSD license because the GPL is more self-promotional.

Mike


From josh at tcbug.org  Sun Oct 21 16:42:52 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:42:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211527230.394@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071021184710.GC75650@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211527230.394@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>

On Sunday 21 October 2007 15:33:09 Mike Miller wrote:
> Well, not the whole world but at least it is the "L" in TCLUG.  I notice
> that your email address is at TCBUG - no "L"!
>
> I like all unixy things but am working toward doing all my work on Linux
> (still use Solaris some due to force of habit) because it seems to be the
> most likely to succeed for the next decade or so.  I also prefer the GPL
> to the BSD license because the GPL is more self-promotional.
>
> Mike

Ah, licenses...substitute self-promotional with viral and we're probably at 
agreement anyways.

It's interesting that for ~15 years the FSF has been telling me what 'Free' 
is, and their definition has essentially been GPL compatable.  Specifically 
the GPLv2...many licenses have come and gone in those years, only those which 
have been GPLv2 compatable have been declared free by the FSF....until now.  
The FSF has recently released the GPLv3 which is *not* GPLv2 compatable, but 
somehow it is the new definition of free....it also carries with it more 
restrictions, which melts my brain.  I am more free because of more 
restrictions.

The FSF would also have you believe that commercial software is bad or wrong 
somehow....another position I really have a hard time with.

I am all about choice.  To me freedom is best given to me when I have freedom 
to choose.  Give me the freedom to choose between an open source and a closed 
source solution, or a solution that I can have and use for free versus one 
that I have to pay for.  The FSF (and their virus they call a license) 
attempts to limit my freedom to choose, and if they had their way they'd take 
away my freedom to choose commercial software completely.

I've been using open source solutions both professionally and recreationally 
for well over 15 years now.  99.9% of the commercial code I write at work 
goes out the door with a BSD license on it, and the people buying it gladly 
pay 6 figures for our product.  (In case you are wondering the remaining .1% 
goes out GPL'd because of virus infestations, but we're working on 
eliminating that little pest)

What's scary to me is how much mindshare the FSF has captured, and how readily 
an entire generation has bought in to their song and dance.  I sometimes sit 
back and wonder how it all happened....was it IBM's billion dollar marketing 
scheme for linux?  How did you hear of linux...and how long did it take you 
to buy in to the FSF afterwards?  And what were your influences?

At the end of this email I reread your reply....my first take was that you 
thought solaris was most likely to succeed for the next decade or so, which I 
totally agree with...upon rereading it I got the impression maybe you thought 
linux was the most likely to succeed in the next decade or so....just 
curious, but which one of my readings is correct?

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071021/880c8531/attachment.pgp 

From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Sun Oct 21 18:07:24 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:07:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071021184710.GC75650@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211527230.394@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211725430.28385@taxa.epi.umn.edu>


On Sun, 21 Oct 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> On Sunday 21 October 2007 15:33:09 Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> Well, not the whole world but at least it is the "L" in TCLUG.  I 
>> notice that your email address is at TCBUG - no "L"!
>>
>> I like all unixy things but am working toward doing all my work on 
>> Linux (still use Solaris some due to force of habit) because it seems 
>> to be the most likely to succeed for the next decade or so.  I also 
>> prefer the GPL to the BSD license because the GPL is more 
>> self-promotional.
>
>
> Ah, licenses...substitute self-promotional with viral and we're probably 
> at agreement anyways.

I don't mind calling the GPL viral if viral means that it has a tendency 
to propogate itself.  It does have that tendency and that is good.


> It's interesting that for ~15 years the FSF has been telling me what 
> 'Free' is, and their definition has essentially been GPL compatable. 
> Specifically the GPLv2...many licenses have come and gone in those 
> years, only those which have been GPLv2 compatable have been declared 
> free by the FSF....until now. The FSF has recently released the GPLv3 
> which is *not* GPLv2 compatable, but somehow it is the new definition of 
> free....it also carries with it more restrictions, which melts my brain. 
> I am more free because of more restrictions.

I think the new changes are about software patents, aren't they?  And 
software patents seem to be a recent legal innovation and a serious 
threat.  As to their definition of free software, it is here:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Regarding compatibility of GPLv3 with GPLv2, see here:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#v2v3Compatibility

The reasons for changes were explained by Stallman here:

http://gplv3.fsf.org/rms_gplv3_launch_transcript


> The FSF would also have you believe that commercial software is bad or 
> wrong somehow....another position I really have a hard time with.

You can now have an easy time again because you were wrong all along. 
Their opposition is to proprietary licenses not to commercial 
applications.


> I am all about choice.  To me freedom is best given to me when I have 
> freedom to choose.  Give me the freedom to choose between an open source 
> and a closed source solution, or a solution that I can have and use for 
> free versus one that I have to pay for.  The FSF (and their virus they 
> call a license) attempts to limit my freedom to choose, and if they had 
> their way they'd take away my freedom to choose commercial software 
> completely.

Do you mean your freedom as a developer to make a non-free proprietary 
program using formerly free code?  I agree with Stallman and others that 
it is not desirable for me as a developer of free code to provide you with 
that option.  I want my free code to stay free after it has been modified 
for other uses.

Analogy:  If I lend someone my car, I might allow him to drive it to 
wherever he pleases, but I wouldn't grant him the permission to run me 
over!  Distributing software under the BSD license is like saying "go 
ahead, run me over."


> I've been using open source solutions both professionally and 
> recreationally for well over 15 years now.  99.9% of the commercial code 
> I write at work goes out the door with a BSD license on it, and the 
> people buying it gladly pay 6 figures for our product.  (In case you are 
> wondering the remaining .1% goes out GPL'd because of virus 
> infestations, but we're working on eliminating that little pest)

I don't know what you mean by "virus infestations" unless you mean that 
you were incorporating GPL code into your code.  It is unfortunate that 
you are using the BSD license.  Do your employers know that any competitor 
can take your code, improve it and use it in a competing product and they 
don't have to share their code with you?  But if your employer were using 
GPL instead, the competitor would have to share back with your company. 
So why is BSD better for you than GPL?  Seems like BSD was a bad choice.


> What's scary to me is how much mindshare the FSF has captured, and how 
> readily an entire generation has bought in to their song and dance.

Please consider that maybe you are the one who is wrong.


> I sometimes sit back and wonder how it all happened....was it IBM's 
> billion dollar marketing scheme for linux?  How did you hear of 
> linux...and how long did it take you to buy in to the FSF afterwards? 
> And what were your influences?

I've been using UNIX systems for about 20 years and have been sysadmin on 
my Solaris box (SPARC) for 12 years.  I first used Linux in 1996 at an 
internet cafe in San Francisco.  The thing that I liked a lot about Linux 
at that time was that it could run on ordinary PC hardware allowing me to 
have UNIX (essentially) with a color monitor that didn't cost $3,000+ 
(yes, Sun monitors were pricey!).  I also used emacs back then.  I don't 
even know when I first heard of FSF but I think it was back in about 1994. 
I liked the idea but as a psychiatry postdoc it wasn't a high priority. 
Over the years I learned more about it and I have been impressed with the 
record of success of the GPL.  I think it is working because it is a good 
license that serves to promote collaboration and developer communities.

I think you should not pretend that use of the GPL has to be due to some 
kind of herd mentality following some kind of religious indoctrination or 
corporate marketing scheme.  Maybe it's just a good thing for many 
developers.


> At the end of this email I reread your reply....my first take was that 
> you thought solaris was most likely to succeed for the next decade or 
> so, which I totally agree with...upon rereading it I got the impression 
> maybe you thought linux was the most likely to succeed in the next 
> decade or so....just curious, but which one of my readings is correct?

You should remove the parenthetical remark and read it again.  My 
statement was not ambiguous.  Linux is the OS that has been massively 
successful in recent years and has pretty much taken over.  Every major 
UNIX distributor (IBM, Sun, HP, SGI) started offering Linux as an option 
on their hardware several years ago.  Even Dell started offering Ubuntu on 
their machines.  Young people use Linux.  All these signs point to 
continuing growth and success for Linux.  I don't think Solaris will cease 
to exist any time soon, but it will continue to lose market share.  It's 
hard for me to see the point in using Solaris when Linux is readily 
available to me.  For me, Linux is *clearly* the better choice.

I think you should reconsider some of your ideas.  You come across as 
firmly entrenched, but I'm not seeing a logical argument to for the 
superiority of the BSD license to GPL licenses in what you wrote.  I do 
have the impression that you believe the BSD license is better.  I have 
had arguments like this before, possibly on this list and maybe even with 
you, Josh.  The one argument for using BSD instead of GPL came from 
someone who didn't care about starting a community around his code base 
and he didn't care about competitors -- he just wanted his code to be used 
by anyone.  Wider use meant more attention to his work and more impressive 
claims in his CV (e.g., "Microsoft uses my code in Blah").  That makes 
sense, but most of us are trying to do more than that with our projects.

Mike


From josh at tcbug.org  Sun Oct 21 21:20:44 2007
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:20:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211725430.28385@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211725430.28385@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>

On Sunday 21 October 2007 18:07:24 Mike Miller wrote:

>
> > It's interesting that for ~15 years the FSF has been telling me
> > what 'Free' is, and their definition has essentially been GPL
> > compatable. Specifically the GPLv2...many licenses have come and
> > gone in those years, only those which have been GPLv2 compatable
> > have been declared free by the FSF....until now. The FSF has
> > recently released the GPLv3 which is *not* GPLv2 compatable, but
> > somehow it is the new definition of free....it also carries with
> > it more restrictions, which melts my brain. I am more free
> > because of more restrictions.
>
> I think the new changes are about software patents, aren't they? 
> And software patents seem to be a recent legal innovation and a
> serious threat.  As to their definition of free software, it is
> here:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
>
> Regarding compatibility of GPLv3 with GPLv2, see here:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#v2v3Compatibility
>
> The reasons for changes were explained by Stallman here:
>
> http://gplv3.fsf.org/rms_gplv3_launch_transcript
>

You ignore my point, that the FSF wishes to position itself as the 
sole determinant of freedom.

> > The FSF would also have you believe that commercial software is
> > bad or wrong somehow....another position I really have a hard
> > time with.
>
> You can now have an easy time again because you were wrong all
> along. Their opposition is to proprietary licenses not to
> commercial applications.
>

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallman-kth.htm

If your read something like that, you don't get the impression he's 
talking about licenses at all, mainly because he only uses the word 
license once, in an analogy...but he touts the downfalls and evils of 
commercial software quite a bit...

> > I am all about choice.  To me freedom is best given to me when I
> > have freedom to choose.  Give me the freedom to choose between an
> > open source and a closed source solution, or a solution that I
> > can have and use for free versus one that I have to pay for.  The
> > FSF (and their virus they call a license) attempts to limit my
> > freedom to choose, and if they had their way they'd take away my
> > freedom to choose commercial software completely.
>
> Do you mean your freedom as a developer to make a non-free
> proprietary program using formerly free code?  I agree with
> Stallman and others that it is not desirable for me as a developer
> of free code to provide you with that option.  I want my free code
> to stay free after it has been modified for other uses.
>
> Analogy:  If I lend someone my car, I might allow him to drive it
> to wherever he pleases, but I wouldn't grant him the permission to
> run me over!  Distributing software under the BSD license is like
> saying "go ahead, run me over."
>
> > I've been using open source solutions both professionally and
> > recreationally for well over 15 years now.  99.9% of the
> > commercial code I write at work goes out the door with a BSD
> > license on it, and the people buying it gladly pay 6 figures for
> > our product.  (In case you are wondering the remaining .1% goes
> > out GPL'd because of virus infestations, but we're working on
> > eliminating that little pest)
>
> I don't know what you mean by "virus infestations" unless you mean
> that you were incorporating GPL code into your code.  It is
> unfortunate that you are using the BSD license.  Do your employers
> know that any competitor can take your code, improve it and use it
> in a competing product and they don't have to share their code with
> you?  But if your employer were using GPL instead, the competitor
> would have to share back with your company. So why is BSD better
> for you than GPL?  Seems like BSD was a bad choice.
>

Not at all, competitors are about 2 years behind us right now.  Our 
code is for all practical purposes worthless to them.  You can 
download everything we do from publically available svn, even though 
thanks to the BSDL we are under no compulsion to provide that, and 
build our product on your own, get it running, and save yourself the 
$500,000 site installation fee that we charge.  But to date, in over 
4 years of operation, no one has done so.

One of Stallman's points against commercial software is that it forces 
programmers to reinvent the wheel, but the GPL is really no different 
in that regard.  I have been forced time and time again to 
reimpliment GPL'd software simply because it's license is not usable 
to me in the commercial environment that I am in.  I don't have that 
problem with BSDL'd software.  It's not about whether I open source 
what I'm doing or not, right now today what I'm working on gets open 
sourced, but I have the option to close the source if I need to.  The 
GPL, and software based upon it takes away that choice.

I really do think you've missed out on how badly Stallman wants 
commercial software in any form to go away, and for a return to the 
heady days of his youth when business didn't care about software and 
it was all just fun and games.  His license reflects that attitude 
perfectly.

-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071021/dbd168ce/attachment-0001.pgp 

From florin at iucha.net  Sun Oct 21 21:57:17 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:57:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211725430.28385@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <20071022025717.GH7918@iucha.net>

On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 09:20:44PM -0500, Josh Paetzel wrote:
> One of Stallman's points against commercial software is that it forces 
> programmers to reinvent the wheel, but the GPL is really no different 
> in that regard.  I have been forced time and time again to 
> reimpliment GPL'd software simply because it's license is not usable 
> to me in the commercial environment that I am in.  I don't have that 
> problem with BSDL'd software.  It's not about whether I open source 
> what I'm doing or not, right now today what I'm working on gets open 
> sourced, but I have the option to close the source if I need to.  The 
> GPL, and software based upon it takes away that choice.

Oh, come on.  That is like complaining that the courts are taking
away your freedom to shoot thy neighbor.  Or that the shopkeeper
is demanding money _after_ you placed merchandise in your pocket.

You _give up_ the choice of closing the source when you _distribute_
code derived from or using code licensed under the GPL.  Nobody is
coming in from the street and taking anything from you.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071021/00605486/attachment.pgp 

From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Sun Oct 21 22:25:42 2007
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:25:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211725430.28385@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <1193023542.10458.1217077357@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:20:44 -0500, "Josh Paetzel" <josh at tcbug.org>
said:
> 
> It's not about whether I open source 
> what I'm doing or not, right now today what I'm working on gets open 
> sourced, but I have the option to close the source if I need to.  The 
> GPL, and software based upon it takes away that choice.

The GPL is not taking anything away from you; you're just not being
granted something. Taking away and not giving are two different things.

> 
> I really do think you've missed out on how badly Stallman wants 
> commercial software in any form to go away, and for a return to the 
> heady days of his youth when business didn't care about software and 
> it was all just fun and games.

This argument is wrong. It's proprietary software not commercial
software that Stallman's against.


From bunjee at charter.net  Sun Oct 21 23:28:04 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:28:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection with Fedora 7
Message-ID: <8447E4F13E4B4B3AB7DDDE012989418C@JohnnyPC>



I need some help with Fedora 7. I have it installed and can't connect to
the Internet. I've got the two little TV's in the upper right hand
corner of my screen that indicate the network Manager is connected, but
when I try to get on Mozilla - the message reads something like Mozilla
can't connect to the server - please try again. I have a Linksys
Ethernet Bridge that picks up my router. Windows is no problem. Please
advise.

Danny J.



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Oct 22 02:34:13 2007
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 02:34:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211725430.28385@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0710220133500.9709@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> On Sunday 21 October 2007 18:07:24 Mike Miller wrote:
>
>>
>>> It's interesting that for ~15 years the FSF has been telling me
>>> what 'Free' is, and their definition has essentially been GPL
>>> compatable. Specifically the GPLv2...many licenses have come and
>>> gone in those years, only those which have been GPLv2 compatable
>>> have been declared free by the FSF....until now. The FSF has
>>> recently released the GPLv3 which is *not* GPLv2 compatable, but
>>> somehow it is the new definition of free....it also carries with
>>> it more restrictions, which melts my brain. I am more free
>>> because of more restrictions.
>>
>> I think the new changes are about software patents, aren't they?
>> And software patents seem to be a recent legal innovation and a
>> serious threat.  As to their definition of free software, it is
>> here:
>>
>> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
>>
>> Regarding compatibility of GPLv3 with GPLv2, see here:
>>
>> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#v2v3Compatibility
>>
>> The reasons for changes were explained by Stallman here:
>>
>> http://gplv3.fsf.org/rms_gplv3_launch_transcript
>>
>
> You ignore my point, that the FSF wishes to position itself as the sole 
> determinant of freedom.

They came up with a term, "free software," and they defined that term.  I 
don't see anything wrong with that.  They have since been promoting the 
use of the term and the relevant concepts.  As you pointed out, they have 
been doing quite well for themselves and for us.  Now that I know what 
your point is, I think it is not correct and I don't know what the basis 
is for your claim, or why you put your idea in those terms.


>>> The FSF would also have you believe that commercial software is bad or 
>>> wrong somehow....another position I really have a hard time with.
>>
>> You can now have an easy time again because you were wrong all along. 
>> Their opposition is to proprietary licenses not to commercial 
>> applications.
>
>
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallman-kth.htm
>
> If your read something like that, you don't get the impression he's 
> talking about licenses at all, mainly because he only uses the word 
> license once, in an analogy...but he touts the downfalls and evils of 
> commercial software quite a bit...

That page doesn't exist without an html extension (.htm doesn't work). 
Well, I guess that explains how you got the wrong idea.  He sometimes uses 
the word "commercial" in that article in reference to software that is 
both commercial and proprietary.  He also complains that big money from 
commercial software companies destroyed his beloved MIT AI lab and his 
hacker culture.

Maybe you should read this:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html


>>> I've been using open source solutions both professionally and 
>>> recreationally for well over 15 years now.  99.9% of the commercial 
>>> code I write at work goes out the door with a BSD license on it, and 
>>> the people buying it gladly pay 6 figures for our product.  (In case 
>>> you are wondering the remaining .1% goes out GPL'd because of virus 
>>> infestations, but we're working on eliminating that little pest)
>>
>> I don't know what you mean by "virus infestations" unless you mean that 
>> you were incorporating GPL code into your code.  It is unfortunate that 
>> you are using the BSD license.  Do your employers know that any 
>> competitor can take your code, improve it and use it in a competing 
>> product and they don't have to share their code with you?  But if your 
>> employer were using GPL instead, the competitor would have to share 
>> back with your company. So why is BSD better for you than GPL?  Seems 
>> like BSD was a bad choice.
>
>
> Not at all, competitors are about 2 years behind us right now.  Our code 
> is for all practical purposes worthless to them.

OK, I agree that worthless code should be distributed under the BSDL or 
any other license at all -- who cares?


> You can download everything we do from publically available svn, even 
> though thanks to the BSDL we are under no compulsion to provide that, 
> and build our product on your own, get it running, and save yourself the 
> $500,000 site installation fee that we charge.  But to date, in over 4 
> years of operation, no one has done so.

No one wants to save $500,000?  Maybe you aren't providing adequate 
installation instructions!

You should know that you are under no obligation under the GPL to provide 
publically available svn or web-based distribution.  You can send it by 
mail and charge S/H.


> One of Stallman's points against commercial software is that it forces 
> programmers to reinvent the wheel, but the GPL is really no different in 
> that regard.  I have been forced time and time again to reimpliment 
> GPL'd software simply because it's license is not usable to me in the 
> commercial environment that I am in.

Why would I want you to be able to use my code?  It sounds like you don't 
produce any code that anyone can use (that's what you've said).  The fact 
that you can't use GPL doesn't matter to me if you also can't give 
anything of value back to a GPL project.


> I really do think you've missed out on how badly Stallman wants 
> commercial software in any form to go away, and for a return to the 
> heady days of his youth when business didn't care about software and it 
> was all just fun and games.  His license reflects that attitude 
> perfectly.

Is that a bad thing?  I don't htink he wants commercial software to go 
away though.  He sells his software:

https://agia.fsf.org/order/

Also, I've bought hundreds of dollars worth of books from him.

Mike


From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com  Mon Oct 22 02:29:14 2007
From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 02:29:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection with Fedora 7
In-Reply-To: <8447E4F13E4B4B3AB7DDDE012989418C@JohnnyPC>
References: <8447E4F13E4B4B3AB7DDDE012989418C@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <471C514A.8060202@b-o-b.homelinux.com>

Danny wrote:
> 
> I need some help with Fedora 7. I have it installed and can't connect to
> the Internet. I've got the two little TV's in the upper right hand
> corner of my screen that indicate the network Manager is connected, but
> when I try to get on Mozilla - the message reads something like Mozilla
> can't connect to the server - please try again. I have a Linksys
> Ethernet Bridge that picks up my router. Windows is no problem. Please
> advise.
> 
> Danny J.
> 

Are you connecting with a wireless card?




From dniesen at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 06:00:56 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:00:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection with Fedora 7
In-Reply-To: <8447E4F13E4B4B3AB7DDDE012989418C@JohnnyPC>
References: <8447E4F13E4B4B3AB7DDDE012989418C@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710220400r51fb6400o6f688d646190796c@mail.gmail.com>

Do you get a similar IP address assigned to your machine under Fedora?  Can
you ping your gateway?

On 10/21/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I need some help with Fedora 7. I have it installed and can't connect to
> the Internet. I've got the two little TV's in the upper right hand
> corner of my screen that indicate the network Manager is connected, but
> when I try to get on Mozilla - the message reads something like Mozilla
> can't connect to the server - please try again. I have a Linksys
> Ethernet Bridge that picks up my router. Windows is no problem. Please
> advise.
>
> Danny J.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Donovan Niesen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071022/51a244ba/attachment.htm 

From thurianknight at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 08:22:49 2007
From: thurianknight at gmail.com (Dave Sherman)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:22:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux-based NAS solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.60.0710220133500.9709@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <7bdea6e30710190642v64039375rf91761094f379756@mail.gmail.com>
	<200710211642.56010.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710211725430.28385@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<200710212120.48158.josh@tcbug.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.60.0710220133500.9709@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <7bdea6e30710220622j64a2cfe7v7499fbd8cf02a8e8@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to those of you who actually gave useful input to my questions.

-- 
Dave Sherman
MCSA, MCSE, CCNA
Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.


From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Mon Oct 22 09:23:42 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:23:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Licenses (was Linux-based NAS solutions)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2251.1193019594.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.2251.1193019594.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <7556.192.28.2.17.1193063022.squirrel@alpha.twp-llc.com>

> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:20:44 -0500
> From: Josh Paetzel <josh at tcbug.org>
> On Sunday 21 October 2007 18:07:24 Mike Miller wrote:
>> I think the new changes are about software patents, aren't they?  And
>> software patents seem to be a recent legal innovation and a
>> serious threat.
> You ignore my point, that the FSF wishes to position itself as the  sole
> determinant of freedom.

Then I did too because your point seemed to be that the GPL was bad (read:
inconvenient) for your business.

> Not at all, competitors are about 2 years behind us right now.  Our
> code is for all practical purposes worthless to them.  You can
> download everything we do from publically available svn, even though
> thanks to the BSDL we are under no compulsion to provide that, and
> build our product on your own, get it running, and save yourself the
> $500,000 site installation fee that we charge.  But to date, in over  4
> years of operation, no one has done so.

Wow. Sounds like a business opportunity to me: Download some code
benefiting from all your work, add a couple exclusive features, and sell
it for half your price. Brilliant!

> One of Stallman's points against commercial software is that it forces
> programmers to reinvent the wheel, but the GPL is really no different
> in that regard.  I have been forced time and time again to
> reimpliment GPL'd software simply because it's license is not usable  to
> me in the commercial environment that I am in.

That seems to be *your* problem. The developers who licensed their code
that way don't want only some people to benefit from their work. The GPL
ensures everyone can use the work, and the work of others who build on it.
Seems like a great way to ensure that the new levels that are built on
their platform are not roped off for anyone.

> I really do think you've missed out on how badly Stallman wants
> commercial software in any form to go away, and for a return to the
> heady days of his youth when business didn't care about software and  it
> was all just fun and games.  His license reflects that attitude
> perfectly.

Perfectly indeed. That may well be his vision, but in any case, there seem
to be a lot more developers in the GPL camp than the BSD camp, which means
there are more solutions with that license.

It seems like your gripe is that the GPL license is anti-business, but its
real effect (if universally adopted) is to remove software as a basis for
business competition. I think that would be an interesting world.

Chris Schumann





From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 00:07:36 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:07:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS on an isolated network
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710222207p33016e2dg409eba57f925928c@mail.gmail.com>

I've got an isolated network for a mix of machines (Windows, embedded
who knows what network device, etc.) that whose purpose is to run
manufacturing equipment. The controllers need to access data files on
a file server. Two or three years ago this seemed simple enough, we
setup a 24 port switch and go all static IP addresses. It worked fine
until we until the computers were upgraded, then there was insanity..

So for take 2 I'm working on setting up a small device to manage the
isolated network. It's a Linksys NSLU2 running Debian off a small 1gb
flash drive. Right now it's doing almost everything that I could want.

I've got dnsmasq doing DHCP and DNS. It's working great exxcept for one thing...

This network is completely isolated, no access to the internet at all,
but I'd like to set things up so that any web requests (that aren't on
the local lan) get redirected to a webmpage on the NSLU2. THe webpage
informs the user that they are connected to the isolated network and
shows them their IP. A handy tool for the not totally network savvy
guys who are in charge of maintaining the lines.

So I've got the iptables rules setup just fine. www.google.com
redirects to the NSLU2, and the 404 page on the NSLU2's web server is
set to index.html (yeah I could have done mod_rewrite or something,
but this was easy.) This is all working just fine in my vmware test
environment.

Then I realized something...the vmware environment has an internet
connection with a DNS server that can resolve www.google.com, but in
my production environment there will be no DNS server that can resolve
www.google.com. So I disabled the internet interface in vmeware, and
as expected instead of redirecting to the NSLU2;s web server
www.google.com simply times out.

My first though was to somehow get dnsmasq to return the NSLU2's IP
address if it can't resolve a name, but I've only figured out how to
get it to always return the NSLU2's IP address. Not ideal as I do want
the local hostnames (client1.lan, client2.lan, clientX.lan, etc.) to
resolve properly.

So my next idea is to run two instances on dnsmasq. The first one
doing DHCP and DNS and listening to eth0, and the second one doing
only DNS, listening only to lo, and returning only the NSLU2's IP
address. The dnsmasq on eth0 would fall back to the dnsmasq on lo and
I'd get the behavior I want...

It just seems like there should be a simpler way of getting this
result, but I'm afraid I've been at this for too long and I'm not
seeing the simpler solution, but maybe someone on tclug will see it?

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 00:30:07 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:30:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS on an isolated network
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020710222207p33016e2dg409eba57f925928c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e3a54b020710222207p33016e2dg409eba57f925928c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710222230wde4b7c5h5d6fda3a682e2ed2@mail.gmail.com>

All that, and I figured out that dnsmasq will do exactly what I want.

Just add
address=/#/192.168.1.1
to the dnsmasq.conf file.

I tried this and didn't get the results I wanted, my server name
resolved the the address I specified in dnsmasq.conf instead of
resolving to the ip I had entered in /etc/hosts...

After rereading the documentation and checking the config file (hey
it's late cut me some slack) I realized that should do exactly what I
want.

And it does. The problem was I had typoed the hostname in /etc/hosts.
Fixed the entry in /etc/hosts, and the hostname for my file server
resolves the the proper ip but www.google.com resolves to the NSLU2's
IP! And I dance a happy dance and head for bed.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From dniesen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 07:43:38 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:43:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet connection with Fedora 7
In-Reply-To: <001201c8151e$91341190$6601a8c0@garagelogic>
References: <47f4d5e70710220400r51fb6400o6f688d646190796c@mail.gmail.com>
	<001201c8151e$91341190$6601a8c0@garagelogic>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710230543k3e8f9baej51a46ab8ad17d75a@mail.gmail.com>

No problem; these concepts aren't specific to Linux but instead general
networking.

In Windows (I'm assuming you're using XP), click on Start, Run and in the
run window type "cmd.exe" without the quotes.  This will bring you to a
command prompt.  at the command prompt, type "ipconfig" (again without
quote).  You will see something like this:

Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : techoutfit.local
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.33
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.1

What we're interested in here is the IP Address and Default Gateway lines.
Write those down and then boot back into Fedora.

Once in Fedora, open up Terminal (might be labeled Gnome Terminal) from the
applications menu.  At the terminal, type "/sbin/ifconfig" and see if the IP
Address that shows up that matches what you saw in Windows.  If it does, try
typing "ping 10.0.0.1" but replace the 10.0.0.1 with Gateway address you
wrote down earlier.  You'll either see numerous requests with response times
coming back or you will see "timed out" if it cannot reach the gateway.

At this point, we're checking to see that your network card is receiving a
proper IP address and that it can communicate with your router/firewall.
Let us know what happens!



On 10/22/07, Daniel <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  I do not understand - please be more specific when replying. Understand I
> am not familiar with Linux but intend to learn, however slowly.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Donovan [mailto:dniesen at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2007 6:01 AM
> *To:* Danny
> *Cc:* tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] Internet connection with Fedora 7
>
>
>
> Do you get a similar IP address assigned to your machine under Fedora?
> Can you ping your gateway?
>
> On 10/21/07, *Danny* < bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I need some help with Fedora 7. I have it installed and can't connect to
> the Internet. I've got the two little TV's in the upper right hand
> corner of my screen that indicate the network Manager is connected, but
> when I try to get on Mozilla - the message reads something like Mozilla
> can't connect to the server - please try again. I have a Linksys
> Ethernet Bridge that picks up my router. Windows is no problem. Please
> advise.
>
> Danny J.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>



-- 
Donovan Niesen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071023/ac8fe4f4/attachment.htm 

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Oct 23 19:31:05 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:31:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710240031.l9O0V5Y11225@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Netgear WIFI router

Netgear wireless firewall/router/print server

Model: FM114P
4 port switch
11 Mb wifi
parallel printer port
original box, software, manual, power adapter
flashed with the latest firmware

Used but still works.  Add wifi to you DSL or cable modem setup 
at home or office.  11 Mb is more than sufficient for most email 
and web browsing.

$40/obo cash only
You pick up in SW Minneapolis
612-823-2781

Seller Email address: tclug07ad at thinkunix dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Oct 23 19:32:28 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:32:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710240032.l9O0WSn11987@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 256 MB PC133 laptop memory

Hynix PC133S-333-542
part# HYM72V32M636BT6-H AA
144 pin SDRAM SODIMM
256 MB Sync 133MHz CL3

"IBM Approval" sticker
IBM 38L4697
FRU 19K4655

This memory was in my Thinkpad T23 when I bought it new from IBM. It was working when removed. May work in other brands.  That's your job to figure out ;)

$30 cash only, you pick up in SW Minneapolis.
612-823-2781 


Seller Email address: tclug07ad at thinkunix dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From jpschewe at mtu.net  Tue Oct 23 20:59:27 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:59:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] gnome problems with session manager
Message-ID: <471EA6FF.4010702@mtu.net>

Ok, so I upgraded to opensuse 10.3 and I noticed that my menus in
openoffice are really slow.  I did some digging with strace and it seems
that it's reading the environment variable SESSION_MANGER to get some
information.  Turns out this environment variable is supposed to point
to the PID of gnome-session (with some other stuff).  If I unset it,
then openoffice is nice an fast again.

With some more debugging it seems that if I start up gnome-terminal with
Alt-F2, SESSION_MANAGER is set correctly.  However if I start it up from
the menu, it's set wrong, in fact it always points to the same pid, that
nothing is running as.

Anyone know what's up here?

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 25 17:52:50 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:52:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] triple boot problomes-grub error 22
Message-ID: <448670.63938.qm@web33714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hi. i have an old compaq presario-4400us computer that isn&#39;t booting at grub error 22.  i also plan on using this computer as a storage server using ubuntu  7.10  server.  can anyone help me with either of these?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From florin at iucha.net  Fri Oct 26 11:21:42 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:21:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] triple boot problomes-grub error 22
In-Reply-To: <448670.63938.qm@web33714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <448670.63938.qm@web33714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20071026162142.GV7918@iucha.net>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 03:52:50PM -0700, Anna Edwards wrote:
> hi. i have an old compaq presario-4400us computer that isn&#39;t booting at grub error 22.  i also plan on using this computer as a storage server using ubuntu  7.10  server.  can anyone help me with either of these?

What did you do before this error started to appear?

Do you care what is on the computer at all?  If not, just install the
Ubuntu server edition and the installed should fix the grub.  If it
is an old machine, you might want to let the installer run a disk
surface check.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071026/9fd1ce43/attachment.pgp 

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Oct 26 12:00:55 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:00:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT all call
Message-ID: <52272.64.8.149.66.1193418055.squirrel@lctn.org>

I am looking for the member I was corresponding with about 1.5 years ago ,
about creating virtual tours of buildings.  You had all the equipment,
experience, etc.. I need to set something up.

Please contact me off-line admin at lctn.org



Raymond


From holtzermann17 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 13:31:06 2007
From: holtzermann17 at gmail.com (Joe Corneli)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:31:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Help with iBook setup
Message-ID: <a9670630710261131m3fa78686ve03488a1ba48df54@mail.gmail.com>

I have a dual USB ibook that I put Debian etch onto...
there are a couple of features I don't know how to
enable (airport, sleep) and at least one that I don't know
how to disable (trackpad clicking)!  I've never "built
a kernel" before... and generally am a newbie at
Linux administration (after years as a Fink user).
Is anyone available to help me with this?
Perhaps these are the sorts of questions that
would be answered at installfests?  If so, when
is the next event of that nature?

Thanks,

(a distressed linux newbie)
Joe


From brockn at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 14:19:07 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:19:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] triple boot problomes-grub error 22
In-Reply-To: <20071026162142.GV7918@iucha.net>
References: <448670.63938.qm@web33714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20071026162142.GV7918@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80710261219v20147b9maf76d76fae5255d@mail.gmail.com>

I highly recommend SuperGrub.

http://supergrub.forjamari.linex.org/

On 10/26/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 03:52:50PM -0700, Anna Edwards wrote:
> > hi. i have an old compaq presario-4400us computer that isn&#39;t booting at grub error 22.  i also plan on using this computer as a storage server using ubuntu  7.10  server.  can anyone help me with either of these?
>
> What did you do before this error started to appear?
>
> Do you care what is on the computer at all?  If not, just install the
> Ubuntu server edition and the installed should fix the grub.  If it
> is an old machine, you might want to let the installer run a disk
> surface check.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFHIhQWND0rFCN2b1sRAgDNAJ9275+lCjCGsN//Bvj0p0N7YWkbLQCdHkDs
> QehAual2IXMMJbplOt4rIms=
> =lMrS
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


From k0sdh at visi.com  Fri Oct 26 16:47:04 2007
From: k0sdh at visi.com (Steven Huntsman)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:47:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
Message-ID: <op.t0tqsqfjeg3ft4@hplap.domain.actdsltmp>

Opera on my Linux machine wouldn't send this in the forenoon.
So I'm sending it on MS Windows machine at 4:45 pm after waiting hours on  
the other machine.
Will call Quest to ask about my so-called 'broadband' connection;
but folloqing to get started with trouble shooting.


Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of Firefox  
and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate  
problem).
Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to  
download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using  
Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?  
resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).

Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to connect  
to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both  
browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for Opera  
browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other web  
sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web  
page--that's a spam control tactic].

Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window  
came upwhich stated
"Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card  
could not be detected
correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple screens,  
you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with  
statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"

Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like -  
web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.

The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the last  
two years without any intervention on my part.

How do I get higher resolution back??
How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?

Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910) they  
were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however the  
download site doesn't respond today.

Thanks for you time,
Steve


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From florin at iucha.net  Fri Oct 26 17:01:10 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:01:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
In-Reply-To: <op.t0tqsqfjeg3ft4@hplap.domain.actdsltmp>
References: <op.t0tqsqfjeg3ft4@hplap.domain.actdsltmp>
Message-ID: <20071026220110.GB7918@iucha.net>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 04:47:04PM -0500, Steven Huntsman wrote:
> Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window  
> came upwhich stated
> "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card  
> could not be detected
> correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple screens,  
> you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with  
> statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
> Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
> 
> Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
> Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
> Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like -  
> web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
> 
> The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the last  
> two years without any intervention on my part.
> 
> How do I get higher resolution back??
> How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
> Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?

Steven,

What video card do you have in your PC?  If it is Intel, then you need
to select the "i810" driver not the "intel" driver, as the latter is
newer and has more features and bugs.  If you cannot do that from the
menus, press "Ctrl-Alt-F1" to go to text mode, login as root (or login
and sudo to root) and edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and change the line
which says

   Driver "intel"

to

   Driver "i810"

Also change the "Screen" section to have only one mode in the
"Display" subsection: 1024x768.  Then save and "Ctrl-Alt-Del" to reboot.

Let us know how/if it works.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071026/ac39b8fe/attachment.pgp 

From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 17:09:38 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:09:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
In-Reply-To: <op.t0tqsqfjeg3ft4@hplap.domain.actdsltmp>
References: <op.t0tqsqfjeg3ft4@hplap.domain.actdsltmp>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710261509r861db58od337106ba4d6a78f@mail.gmail.com>


From florin at iucha.net  Fri Oct 26 17:22:48 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:22:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020710261509r861db58od337106ba4d6a78f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.t0tqsqfjeg3ft4@hplap.domain.actdsltmp>
	<e3a54b020710261509r861db58od337106ba4d6a78f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071026222248.GC7918@iucha.net>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 05:09:38PM -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:
> If you're not comfortable editing the config file your self you can
> run the following command on a Ubuntu or Debian system:
> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
> to reconfigure your xserver (I'm sure Ubuntu has a pretty GUI tool
> that runs in X, but I never use it!)

Well, it's the pretty GUI that tripped him (and me -- I spent almost
an hour fighting with my trusty CRT and the video driver).

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071026/a5686f4b/attachment.pgp 

From justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us  Fri Oct 26 19:04:28 2007
From: justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us (justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:04:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Mount Promise Sata Raid Device
Message-ID: <32823.64.8.149.182.1193443468.squirrel@bold.k12.mn.us>

I am attempting to setup a bacula raid device I have a Promise 4310 4 port
raid sata device and in the device bios I have it setup for raid 5.  The
device shows up in the hardware browser as a raid device so I am guessing
it has the proper drivers.  How do I mount the device so I don't have to
use software raid and hammer my cpu during backups.  Any advice would be
great.  Here is my fdisk -l

Oh yeah I am running Centos 4.5 and it is installed on the primary scsi drive

Thanks

Disk /dev/sda: 18.3 GB, 18351959040 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 2231 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *           1          13      104391   83  Linux
/dev/sda2              14        2231    17816085   8e  Linux LVM

Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdc: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdc1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux

Disk /dev/sdd: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdd1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux

Disk /dev/sde: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sde1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux

Justin Vogt
BOLD Schools
Technology Director
Justin.Vogt at bold.k12.mn.us
(320)523-1031 ext.117




From k0sdh at visi.com  Fri Oct 26 22:17:22 2007
From: k0sdh at visi.com (Steven Huntsman)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:17:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
Message-ID: <op.t0tf37eceg3ft4@ubuntu>

Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of Firefox  
and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate  
problem).
Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to  
download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using  
Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?  
resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).

Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to connect  
to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both  
browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for Opera  
browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other web  
sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web  
page--that's a spam control tactic].

Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window  
came upwhich stated
"Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card  
could not be detected
correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple screens,  
you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with  
statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"

Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like -  
web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.

The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the last  
two years without any intervention on my part.

How do I get higher resolution back??
How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?

Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910) they  
were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however the  
download site doesn't respond today.

Thanks for you time,
Steve


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From marc at e-skinner.net  Fri Oct 26 22:43:44 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:43:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Mount Promise Sata Raid Device
In-Reply-To: <32823.64.8.149.182.1193443468.squirrel@bold.k12.mn.us>
References: <32823.64.8.149.182.1193443468.squirrel@bold.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <4722B3F0.9080704@e-skinner.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

if this device does true hardware raid, once that is configured in your
cards bios, it will only show up as a single /dev/sdb or whatever in
linux.  typically you have to assign the drives in the bios and then
create a logical disk using the raid card bios.  if this can't be done,
then the card doesn't appear to be capable of hardware raid and your
stuck with mdadm (software raid) - which actually is very good at
keeping the overhead to a minimum.

it appears others had the same issue:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268570&page=2

1:might want to update to the latest cards firmware.
2:try Centos 5.0 or update kernel/driver












justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us wrote:
> I am attempting to setup a bacula raid device I have a Promise 4310 4 port
> raid sata device and in the device bios I have it setup for raid 5.  The
> device shows up in the hardware browser as a raid device so I am guessing
> it has the proper drivers.  How do I mount the device so I don't have to
> use software raid and hammer my cpu during backups.  Any advice would be
> great.  Here is my fdisk -l
> 
> Oh yeah I am running Centos 4.5 and it is installed on the primary scsi drive
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Disk /dev/sda: 18.3 GB, 18351959040 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 2231 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sda1   *           1          13      104391   83  Linux
> /dev/sda2              14        2231    17816085   8e  Linux LVM
> 
> Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sdb1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Disk /dev/sdc: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sdc1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Disk /dev/sdd: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sdd1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Disk /dev/sde: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sde1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Justin Vogt
> BOLD Schools
> Technology Director
> Justin.Vogt at bold.k12.mn.us
> (320)523-1031 ext.117
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHIrPwvE9HrEfeE4cRAiA+AKDT5XRAROEyOcdnzytcizTYeLROjgCeIIFJ
nMMw0cTL4IVlAvKLa+rxaVA=
=eCx9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From bunjee at charter.net  Sat Oct 27 10:24:28 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:24:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash Player
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2423.1193456722.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <BE5D406DB92741709F0895F20FDFB2AD@JohnnyPC>

Would someone be so kind as to give me detailed instructions on how to
install Adobe flash player in Fedora 7? I am still pretty new with
Linux. Please advise.
Thanx!
Danny J.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:45 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 33
 
Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
      tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
      http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
      tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
 
You can reach the person managing the list at
      tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
 
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
 
 
Today's Topics:
 
   1. OT all call (admin at lctn.org)
   2. Help with iBook setup (Joe Corneli)
   3. Re: triple boot problomes-grub error 22 (Brock Noland)
   4. Screen Resolution Problem (Steven Huntsman)
   5. Re: Screen Resolution Problem (Florin Iucha)
   6. Re: Screen Resolution Problem (Andrew Zbikowski)
   7. Re: Screen Resolution Problem (Florin Iucha)
   8. Mount Promise Sata Raid Device (justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us)
   9. Screen Resolution Problem & others (Steven Huntsman)
  10. Re: Mount Promise Sata Raid Device (Marc Skinner)
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:00:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: admin at lctn.org
Subject: [tclug-list] OT all call
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <52272.64.8.149.66.1193418055.squirrel at lctn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
 
I am looking for the member I was corresponding with about 1.5 years ago
,
about creating virtual tours of buildings.  You had all the equipment,
experience, etc.. I need to set something up.
 
Please contact me off-line admin at lctn.org
 
 
 
Raymond
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:31:06 -0500
From: "Joe Corneli" <holtzermann17 at gmail.com>
Subject: [tclug-list] Help with iBook setup
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
      <a9670630710261131m3fa78686ve03488a1ba48df54 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
I have a dual USB ibook that I put Debian etch onto...
there are a couple of features I don't know how to
enable (airport, sleep) and at least one that I don't know
how to disable (trackpad clicking)!  I've never "built
a kernel" before... and generally am a newbie at
Linux administration (after years as a Fink user).
Is anyone available to help me with this?
Perhaps these are the sorts of questions that
would be answered at installfests?  If so, when
is the next event of that nature?
 
Thanks,
 
(a distressed linux newbie)
Joe
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:19:07 -0500
From: "Brock Noland" <brockn at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] triple boot problomes-grub error 22
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
      <741dcbb80710261219v20147b9maf76d76fae5255d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
I highly recommend SuperGrub.
 
http://supergrub.forjamari.linex.org/
 
On 10/26/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2007 at 03:52:50PM -0700, Anna Edwards wrote:
> > hi. i have an old compaq presario-4400us computer that isn&#39;t
booting at grub error 22.  i also plan on using this computer as a
storage server using ubuntu  7.10  server.  can anyone help me with
either of these?
>
> What did you do before this error started to appear?
>
> Do you care what is on the computer at all?  If not, just install the
> Ubuntu server edition and the installed should fix the grub.  If it
> is an old machine, you might want to let the installer run a disk
> surface check.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFHIhQWND0rFCN2b1sRAgDNAJ9275+lCjCGsN//Bvj0p0N7YWkbLQCdHkDs
> QehAual2IXMMJbplOt4rIms=
> =lMrS
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:47:04 -0500
From: "Steven Huntsman" <k0sdh at visi.com>
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <op.t0tqsqfjeg3ft4 at hplap.domain.actdsltmp>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
      charset=iso-8859-15
 
Opera on my Linux machine wouldn't send this in the forenoon.
So I'm sending it on MS Windows machine at 4:45 pm after waiting hours
on  
the other machine.
Will call Quest to ask about my so-called 'broadband' connection;
but folloqing to get started with trouble shooting.
 
 
Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of Firefox

and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate  
problem).
Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to  
download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using  
Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?  
resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
 
Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to connect

to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both  
browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for
Opera  
browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other web

sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web  
page--that's a spam control tactic].
 
Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window

came upwhich stated
"Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card

could not be detected
correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple
screens,  
you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with  
statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
 
Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like
-  
web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
 
The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the
last  
two years without any intervention on my part.
 
How do I get higher resolution back??
How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
 
Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910)
they  
were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however
the  
download site doesn't respond today.
 
Thanks for you time,
Steve
 
 
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:01:10 -0500
From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <20071026220110.GB7918 at iucha.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 04:47:04PM -0500, Steven Huntsman wrote:
> Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a
window  
> came upwhich stated
> "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics
card  
> could not be detected
> correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple
screens,  
> you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with

> statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
> Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
> 
> Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
> Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
> Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't
like -  
> web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
> 
> The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the
last  
> two years without any intervention on my part.
> 
> How do I get higher resolution back??
> How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
> Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
 
Steven,
 
What video card do you have in your PC?  If it is Intel, then you need
to select the "i810" driver not the "intel" driver, as the latter is
newer and has more features and bugs.  If you cannot do that from the
menus, press "Ctrl-Alt-F1" to go to text mode, login as root (or login
and sudo to root) and edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and change the line
which says
 
   Driver "intel"
 
to
 
   Driver "i810"
 
Also change the "Screen" section to have only one mode in the
"Display" subsection: 1024x768.  Then save and "Ctrl-Alt-Del" to reboot.
 
Let us know how/if it works.
 
Cheers,
florin
 
-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url :
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071026/ac
39b8fe/attachment-0001.pgp 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:09:38 -0500
From: "Andrew Zbikowski" <andyzib at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
      <e3a54b020710261509r861db58od337106ba4d6a78f at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
>From a command line (open xterm, gnome-terminal, whatever your
preferred terminal emulator is.). Run lspci. This should display all
the PCI/AGP devices in your system. This should help you to discover
what your video card is.
 
For example, the server I happen to be logged into displays
0000:00:0e.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage XL
(rev 27)
as the 5th line of output from lspci.
 
If you're not comfortable editing the config file your self you can
run the following command on a Ubuntu or Debian system:
dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
to reconfigure your xserver (I'm sure Ubuntu has a pretty GUI tool
that runs in X, but I never use it!)
 
After changing the config file you will have to restart your XServer.
 
-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:22:48 -0500
From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <20071026222248.GC7918 at iucha.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 05:09:38PM -0500, Andrew Zbikowski wrote:
> If you're not comfortable editing the config file your self you can
> run the following command on a Ubuntu or Debian system:
> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
> to reconfigure your xserver (I'm sure Ubuntu has a pretty GUI tool
> that runs in X, but I never use it!)
 
Well, it's the pretty GUI that tripped him (and me -- I spent almost
an hour fighting with my trusty CRT and the video driver).
 
Cheers,
florin
 
-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
Url :
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071026/a5
686f4b/attachment-0001.pgp 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:04:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us
Subject: [tclug-list] Mount Promise Sata Raid Device
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <32823.64.8.149.182.1193443468.squirrel at bold.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
 
I am attempting to setup a bacula raid device I have a Promise 4310 4
port
raid sata device and in the device bios I have it setup for raid 5.  The
device shows up in the hardware browser as a raid device so I am
guessing
it has the proper drivers.  How do I mount the device so I don't have to
use software raid and hammer my cpu during backups.  Any advice would be
great.  Here is my fdisk -l
 
Oh yeah I am running Centos 4.5 and it is installed on the primary scsi
drive
 
Thanks
 
Disk /dev/sda: 18.3 GB, 18351959040 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 2231 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
 
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *           1          13      104391   83  Linux
/dev/sda2              14        2231    17816085   8e  Linux LVM
 
Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
 
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
 
Disk /dev/sdc: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
 
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdc1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
 
Disk /dev/sdd: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
 
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdd1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
 
Disk /dev/sde: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
 
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sde1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
 
Justin Vogt
BOLD Schools
Technology Director
Justin.Vogt at bold.k12.mn.us
(320)523-1031 ext.117
 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:17:22 -0500
From: "Steven Huntsman" <k0sdh at visi.com>
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <op.t0tf37eceg3ft4 at ubuntu>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
      charset=iso-8859-15
 
Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of Firefox

and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate  
problem).
Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to  
download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using  
Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?  
resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
 
Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to connect

to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both  
browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for
Opera  
browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other web

sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web  
page--that's a spam control tactic].
 
Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window

came upwhich stated
"Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card

could not be detected
correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple
screens,  
you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with  
statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
 
Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like
-  
web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
 
The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the
last  
two years without any intervention on my part.
 
How do I get higher resolution back??
How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
 
Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910)
they  
were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however
the  
download site doesn't respond today.
 
Thanks for you time,
Steve
 
 
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:43:44 -0500
From: Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Mount Promise Sata Raid Device
To: justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <4722B3F0.9080704 at e-skinner.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
if this device does true hardware raid, once that is configured in your
cards bios, it will only show up as a single /dev/sdb or whatever in
linux.  typically you have to assign the drives in the bios and then
create a logical disk using the raid card bios.  if this can't be done,
then the card doesn't appear to be capable of hardware raid and your
stuck with mdadm (software raid) - which actually is very good at
keeping the overhead to a minimum.
 
it appears others had the same issue:
 
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268570&page=2
 
1:might want to update to the latest cards firmware.
2:try Centos 5.0 or update kernel/driver
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us wrote:
> I am attempting to setup a bacula raid device I have a Promise 4310 4
port
> raid sata device and in the device bios I have it setup for raid 5.
The
> device shows up in the hardware browser as a raid device so I am
guessing
> it has the proper drivers.  How do I mount the device so I don't have
to
> use software raid and hammer my cpu during backups.  Any advice would
be
> great.  Here is my fdisk -l
> 
> Oh yeah I am running Centos 4.5 and it is installed on the primary
scsi drive
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Disk /dev/sda: 18.3 GB, 18351959040 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 2231 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sda1   *           1          13      104391   83  Linux
> /dev/sda2              14        2231    17816085   8e  Linux LVM
> 
> Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sdb1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Disk /dev/sdc: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sdc1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Disk /dev/sdd: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sdd1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Disk /dev/sde: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sde1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
> 
> Justin Vogt
> BOLD Schools
> Technology Director
> Justin.Vogt at bold.k12.mn.us
> (320)523-1031 ext.117
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
 
iD8DBQFHIrPwvE9HrEfeE4cRAiA+AKDT5XRAROEyOcdnzytcizTYeLROjgCeIIFJ
nMMw0cTL4IVlAvKLa+rxaVA=
=eCx9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
 
 
------------------------------
 
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 
End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 33
******************************************
 
 
-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date:
10/26/2007 7:54 PM
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071027/1dd67b60/attachment-0001.htm 

From bdunnette at gmail.com  Sun Oct 28 20:58:48 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:58:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash Player
In-Reply-To: <20071028210931.MNRSD.144413.root@fepweb04>
References: <e9cd5840710280912u3b638e9er7f4b5dd3948843f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071028210931.MNRSD.144413.root@fepweb04>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840710281858o19f19691wd1d9397e72b4f0dd@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure what all that means -- looks like it failed to connect to the
repository (the server where the Flash player resides).  Did you save the
.rpm file, or just open it?  This FedoraForum thread might also be of
assistance:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/printthread.php?t=169341

Again, let us know if you have any more issues!

-Brian D.

On 10/28/07, bunjee at charter.net <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Brian, thanx for the help. I followed the instructions you provided me
> and can't even get it to download to the desktop. I will send you some
> gobbly gook I get. when I try to download the "yum" file. I do not know if
> you will be able to decipher it, but here it goes..............The options
> are: debug, save to file or quit.
>
> Component: pirut
>
> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot retrieve
> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
> verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 650, in <module>
>
>     main()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 643, in main
>
>     pup = PackageUpdater(not options.autoapply, options.config)
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 88, in __init__
>
>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False, config)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124, in
> __init__
>
>     self.reset()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223, in
> reset
>
>     self.doTsSetup()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
> doTsSetup
>
>     return self._getTs()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
> _getTs
>
>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526, in
> <lambda>
>
>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381, in
> _getSacks
>
>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
> populateSack
>
>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
> populate
>
>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
> _check_db_version
>
>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
> <lambda>
>
>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
> _getRepoXML
>
>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>
> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Local variables in innermost frame:
>
> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
> self: adobe-linux
>
> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
> mirrors to try.
>
>
> Component: pirut
>
> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot retrieve
> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
> verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>
>     main()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>
>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>
>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124, in
> __init__
>
>     self.reset()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223, in
> reset
>
>     self.doTsSetup()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
> doTsSetup
>
>     return self._getTs()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
> _getTs
>
>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526, in
> <lambda>
>
>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381, in
> _getSacks
>
>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
> populateSack
>
>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
> populate
>
>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
> _check_db_version
>
>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
> <lambda>
>
>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
> _getRepoXML
>
>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>
> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Local variables in innermost frame:
>
> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
> self: adobe-linux
>
> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
> mirrors to try.
>
>
> Component: pirut
>
> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot retrieve
> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
> verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>
>     main()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>
>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>
>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124, in
> __init__
>
>     self.reset()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223, in
> reset
>
>     self.doTsSetup()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
> doTsSetup
>
>     return self._getTs()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
> _getTs
>
>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526, in
> <lambda>
>
>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381, in
> _getSacks
>
>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
> populateSack
>
>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
> populate
>
>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
> _check_db_version
>
>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
> <lambda>
>
>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
> _getRepoXML
>
>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>
> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Local variables in innermost frame:
>
> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
> self: adobe-linux
>
> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
> mirrors to try.
>
> ---- Brian Dunnette <bdunnette at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Danny-
> >
> > As far as I can tell, all you'd have to do is browse to the Flash
> download
> > page:
> >
> >
> http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash
> >
> > When you're there, select option 3 (YUM), and follow the YUM
> instructions--
> >
> > YUM repository installation
> >
> >    1. Click the "Download .rpm" link. A dialog box will appear asking
> you
> >    where to save the file.
> >    2. Save the .rpm file to your desktop and wait for the file to
> >    download completely.
> >    3. In terminal, navigate to the desktop and type # rpm -Uvh
> >    <rpm_package_file>. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root
> user).
> >    4. Once the installation is complete, in terminal, type # yum install
> >    flash-plugin. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root user).
> >    5. To verify the plugin is installed in Mozilla, launch Mozilla and
> >    choose Help > About Plug-ins from the browser menu.
> >    6. To get the most up-to-date Flash Player in the future, simply type
> >    # yum update flash-plugin in terminal. You will not need to repeat
> steps
> >    1-4.
> >
> > Hope this helps -- let us know if you have other questions!
> >
> > -Brian D.
> >
> > P.S. Just an etiquette tip: try not to re-post the entire digest -- the
> > Delete key is a wonderful thing!
> >
> > On 10/27/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Would someone be so kind as to give me *detailed* instructions on how
> to
> > > install Adobe flash player in Fedora 7? I am still pretty new with
> Linux.
> > > Please advise.
> > >
> > > Thanx!
> > >
> > > Danny J.
> > >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071028/adeb0911/attachment.htm 

From emon at lavabit.com  Sun Oct 28 22:31:03 2007
From: emon at lavabit.com (Emon)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:03 +0600
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm question
Message-ID: <472553F7.4040208@lavabit.com>

Hi everybody

I am running openSUSE 10.3 with KDE desktop.

I installed the "pidgin" pkg with YaST which in turn installed a couple
of more pkgs to resolve dependencies.

My question is if I ever decide to uninstall "pidgin" how can I trace
those pkgs which were installed to resolve dependencies & uninstall
them?? either using YaST or from CLI.

My second question is about rpm & deb packages & thus might be very
contentions so a little bit of history first as I don't intend to start
a flame war here.......

this is how I started using linux & then moved on to different distros

RH-7.3 -> RH-8 -> Slackware-9.1 -> Slackware-10 -> Slackware-10.1 ->
Slackware-10.2 -> Slackware-11 -> NovelSuse-10.1 -> openSUSE-10.2 ->
openSUSE-10.3

as you have probably noticed I have no exposure to Debian or any of it's
derivative distros, but recently I have been listening to a lot of noise
regarding .deb pkgs from different people, so I even gave Ubuntu-7.04 a
shot when it was released... but I had other problems..

1)having shifted from M$-windows I have alway found KDE more appealing,
thus kind of dependent on it, so I didn't exactly try Ubuntu; rather
Kubuntu-7.04(DVD).

2) but I use applications which are sometimes very heavily dependent on
GNOME (pidgin, ekiga to name a few..). Sure many people suggested just
do "sudo apt-get foo" & everything will be fine, but I live in
Bangladesh & don't have broadband (internet is not a way of life here,
yet) and can't taken advantages of the facilities that modern package
managers offer may it be apt synaptic or YaST.

So by now you guys know why I had to ditch Kubuntu & stick to a distro
which by default had good support for both KDE & GNOME....

coming back to pkg management... I hear from a friend that when you
uninstall a .deb pkg in Debian (or any of it's derivative distros) the
pkg manager also uninstalls the pkgs those were installed to resolve
dependencies... sound pretty neat... is it true?? if so is it possible
to achieve this on rpm based distros??

Hope I did not offend/hurt any body's feelings
Emon



From brockn at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 09:21:35 2007
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:21:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
In-Reply-To: <op.t0tf37eceg3ft4@ubuntu>
References: <op.t0tf37eceg3ft4@ubuntu>
Message-ID: <741dcbb80710290721x68c1eeb8qd510f08032f44041@mail.gmail.com>

The resolution you referring to is probably 1024x768.  I wonder if
your graphics card has a "restricted driver" meaning that the
manufacturer only provides a binary driver.  Once logged in try
"System -> Admin -> Restricted Drivers Manager"

Brock

On 10/26/07, Steven Huntsman <k0sdh at visi.com> wrote:
> Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of Firefox
> and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate
> problem).
> Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to
> download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using
> Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?
> resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
>
> Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to connect
> to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both
> browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for Opera
> browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other web
> sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web
> page--that's a spam control tactic].
>
> Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window
> came upwhich stated
> "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card
> could not be detected
> correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple screens,
> you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with
> statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
> Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
>
> Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
> Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
> Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like -
> web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
>
> The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the last
> two years without any intervention on my part.
>
> How do I get higher resolution back??
> How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
> Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
>
> Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910) they
> were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however the
> download site doesn't respond today.
>
> Thanks for you time,
> Steve
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From jeruvin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 09:44:50 2007
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:44:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
In-Reply-To: <741dcbb80710290721x68c1eeb8qd510f08032f44041@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.t0tf37eceg3ft4@ubuntu>
	<741dcbb80710290721x68c1eeb8qd510f08032f44041@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0710290744k4f5fa5bepc778640d9926c781@mail.gmail.com>

Probably not related, but my Ubuntu 7.04 to 7.10 upgrade didn't take very
well. System would hard lock and Firefox would freeze. Things cleared up a
little bit if I loaded the kernel version previous to upgrade, but I ended
up doing a fresh install of 7.10 and everything is working now.

Jason

On 10/29/07, Brock Noland <brockn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The resolution you referring to is probably 1024x768.  I wonder if
> your graphics card has a "restricted driver" meaning that the
> manufacturer only provides a binary driver.  Once logged in try
> "System -> Admin -> Restricted Drivers Manager"
>
> Brock
>
> On 10/26/07, Steven Huntsman <k0sdh at visi.com> wrote:
> > Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of Firefox
> > and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate
> > problem).
> > Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to
> > download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using
> > Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?
> > resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
> >
> > Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to connect
> > to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both
> > browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for
> Opera
> > browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other web
> > sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web
> > page--that's a spam control tactic].
> >
> > Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window
> > came upwhich stated
> > "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card
> > could not be detected
> > correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple
> screens,
> > you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with
> > statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
> > Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
> >
> > Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
> > Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
> > Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like
> -
> > web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
> >
> > The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the
> last
> > two years without any intervention on my part.
> >
> > How do I get higher resolution back??
> > How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
> > Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
> >
> > Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910)
> they
> > were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however
> the
> > download site doesn't respond today.
> >
> > Thanks for you time,
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --
> > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071029/5290afe7/attachment.htm 

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Oct 29 14:41:08 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:41:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710291941.l9TJf8R21221@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Black Micro-ATX Case

Black "Insignia" micro-atx case.  Main body is black with a sliver front bezel.  Has 2 front USB ports, 2 external 5", 1 external & 1 internal 3.5".  Originally housed an Intel board & black components.  Not a bad case, scratched up a bit.  Lightning strike took out most of the components so it's time too move on....

Seller Email address: pclinux at charter dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Oct 29 14:45:05 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:45:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200710291945.l9TJj5622257@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Book - Red Hat Linux 7 with CD

"Weekend Crash Course" series.  Old, but still contains some good information.  Yours if you want it.

Seller Email address: pclinux at charter dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From chris.niesen at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 16:32:01 2007
From: chris.niesen at gmail.com (Chris Niesen)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:32:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
In-Reply-To: <op.t0tf37eceg3ft4@ubuntu>
References: <op.t0tf37eceg3ft4@ubuntu>
Message-ID: <36770bfa0710291432y68f39645nfec5a93c62678296@mail.gmail.com>

There is this great company in the cities called "the tech outfit".  I know
one of the owners, and he is pretty well versed in the world of linux.

Check them out here:

http://thetechoutfit.com/

Chris Niesen


On 10/26/07, Steven Huntsman <k0sdh at visi.com> wrote:
>
> Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of Firefox
> and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate
> problem).
> Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to
> download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using
> Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?
> resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
>
> Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to connect
> to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both
> browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for Opera
> browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other web
> sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web
> page--that's a spam control tactic].
>
> Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a window
> came upwhich stated
> "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics card
> could not be detected
> correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple screens,
> you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with
> statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
> Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
>
> Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
> Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
> Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't like -
> web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
>
> The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the last
> two years without any intervention on my part.
>
> How do I get higher resolution back??
> How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
> Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
>
> Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910) they
> were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however the
> download site doesn't respond today.
>
> Thanks for you time,
> Steve
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071029/94ed528b/attachment.htm 

From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com  Mon Oct 29 16:37:19 2007
From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:37:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Thanks for the Pent Pro 200
Message-ID: <4726528F.9060301@b-o-b.homelinux.com>

Two to three years ago someone on this list gave me a pent pro 200 w/ 
128M.  I finally got around to putting in a hard drive, and I am happy 
to announce that I have a new linux router / firewall for my house.

So, who ever you were, Thank You!

Robert De Mars


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 30 07:48:02 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Mount Promise Sata Raid Device
In-Reply-To: <4722B3F0.9080704@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <656271.83285.qm@web33714.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

try getting software raid. it may not be best,  but it uses ram. it should run in backround.

Marc Skinner wrote: 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> if this device does true hardware raid, once that is configured in your
> cards bios, it will only show up as a single /dev/sdb or whatever in
> linux.  typically you have to assign the drives in the bios and then
> create a logical disk using the raid card bios.  if this can't be done,
> then the card doesn't appear to be capable of hardware raid and your
> stuck with mdadm (software raid) - which actually is very good at
> keeping the overhead to a minimum.
> it appears others had the same issue:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268570&page=2
> 1:might want to update to the latest cards firmware.
> 2:try Centos 5.0 or update kernel/driver
> justin.vogt at bold.k12.mn.us wrote:
>> I am attempting to setup a bacula raid device I have a Promise 4310 4 port
>> raid sata device and in the device bios I have it setup for raid 5.  The
>> device shows up in the hardware browser as a raid device so I am guessing
>> it has the proper drivers.  How do I mount the device so I don't have to
>> use software raid and hammer my cpu during backups.  Any advice would be
>> great.  Here is my fdisk -l
>> 
>> Oh yeah I am running Centos 4.5 and it is installed on the primary scsi drive
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Disk /dev/sda: 18.3 GB, 18351959040 bytes
>> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 2231 cylinders
>> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>> 
>>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
>> /dev/sda1   *           1          13      104391   83  Linux
>> /dev/sda2              14        2231    17816085   8e  Linux LVM
>> 
>> Disk /dev/sdb: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
>> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
>> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>> 
>>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
>> /dev/sdb1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
>> 
>> Disk /dev/sdc: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
>> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
>> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>> 
>>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
>> /dev/sdc1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
>> 
>> Disk /dev/sdd: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
>> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
>> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>> 
>>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
>> /dev/sdd1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
>> 
>> Disk /dev/sde: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
>> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders
>> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>> 
>>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
>> /dev/sde1               1       60801   488384001   83  Linux
>> 
>> Justin Vogt
>> BOLD Schools
>> Technology Director
>> Justin.Vogt at bold.k12.mn.us
>> (320)523-1031 ext.117
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
> iD8DBQFHIrPwvE9HrEfeE4cRAiA+AKDT5XRAROEyOcdnzytcizTYeLROjgCeIIFJ
> nMMw0cTL4IVlAvKLa+rxaVA=
> =eCx9
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From cdf123 at cdf123.net  Tue Oct 30 08:46:50 2007
From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:46:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ssh file transfer stalling
Message-ID: <472735CA.20102@cdf123.net>

Hi all,

I have a web product that runs on a linux host that I maintain on
several different off-site locations.  I use ssh exclusively since I'm
going through the internet to get to them.  Everything works fine doing
shell access and running commands and file edits.  But some of these
sites are behind firewalls that restrict outgoing connections, and they
cant get out to ftp or http sites for system updates, so I gather all
the updates at a local server here and transfer them through ssh.  The
works fine, except for a hand full of sites.

What seems to happen is that ssh will begin transferring the data, and
around 100k to 300k or so, the connection stalls, and finally times out.
  This makes transferring the files very annoying as I have to "tar |
split" the files and send them in a "for F in *;do scp" loop.  It
doesn't matter how I transfer the file (scp, dd | ssh dd, etc...), every
method fails at a random 100-300k size.  I was just wondering if anyone
has run into this issue before.

I've noticed this at a few other sites that have less restrictive
firewalls as well.  Since these are off site, I don't have control of
the firewall.  I can request them to make a change to their
configuration, but I need to know what change to make first.

Thanks
Chris Frederick


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Tue Oct 30 09:59:30 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:59:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ssh file transfer stalling
In-Reply-To: <472735CA.20102@cdf123.net>
References: <472735CA.20102@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30710300759r6dd0bec6ge9fb9fe63c08dcb6@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/30/07, Chris Frederick <cdf123 at cdf123.net> wrote:
> I've noticed this at a few other sites that have less restrictive
> firewalls as well.  Since these are off site, I don't have control of
> the firewall.  I can request them to make a change to their
> configuration, but I need to know what change to make first.

What type of network connection do these sites have?

At a past job, I had several offsite servers that had problems like
this and would even experience problems with shell connections. In
almost all cases, it was a problem with a DSL provider that had some
problem on their end. It was always a painful situation to have
resolved.

I found that sites in the southern part of the US had the most problems.


From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 06:35:36 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:35:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP timezone/DST issues
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710310435q39650824k8ddc39c111e89043@mail.gmail.com>

I have an apache2/php server running that decided DST was last week
(must not have been patched last year).  I patched everything I could
and my PHP apps are still showing an hour behind, only from the web.

If I run the following code from bash:

# date
Wed Oct 31 06:32:47 CDT 2007
# echo '<?=date("h:i:s")?>' | php
06:32:47

...I get the correct time.  Thinking that maybe somehow PHP is
misreading the timezone I tried this:

# echo '<?
echo "Original Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
putenv("TZ=US/Central");
mktime(0,0,0,1,1,1970);
echo "New Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
?> ' | php

...and strangely receive this:

Original Time: 06:33:26
New Time: 11:33:26

There is no timezone set in my php.ini and nothing hard set in any of
my PHP scripts.  I seem to be missing something major.  I'm tempted to
move the few sites I have on this box to a fresh and DST patched
system but it'd be nice to see if somebody has racked their brain with
this one before.


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From bunjee at charter.net  Wed Oct 31 06:36:46 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:36:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Adobe Flash Player
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2525.1193667724.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1DFA928547E9498CB059C93D92781ABC@JohnnyPC>

I still need detailed instructions on how to install flash player for
Fedora 7. Listed below is a bunch of garbage I do not understand & some
of the more knowledgeable people do not understand. I have tried all 3
options on a certain web page and all three I can't understand.  I have
it in the archive manager but can't figure out how to install it. It's
somewhat like WinZip but not. Please advise.

Danny J.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 9:22 AM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 35

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
	tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Installing Adobe Flash Player (Brian Dunnette)
   2. rpm question (Emon)
   3. Re: Screen Resolution Problem & others (Brock Noland)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:58:48 -0500
From: "Brian Dunnette" <bdunnette at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash Player
To: "bunjee at charter.net" <bunjee at charter.net>
Cc: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID:
	<e9cd5840710281858o19f19691wd1d9397e72b4f0dd at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Not sure what all that means -- looks like it failed to connect to the
repository (the server where the Flash player resides).  Did you save
the
.rpm file, or just open it?  This FedoraForum thread might also be of
assistance:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/printthread.php?t=169341

Again, let us know if you have any more issues!

-Brian D.

On 10/28/07, bunjee at charter.net <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Hey Brian, thanx for the help. I followed the instructions you
provided me
> and can't even get it to download to the desktop. I will send you some
> gobbly gook I get. when I try to download the "yum" file. I do not
know if
> you will be able to decipher it, but here it goes..............The
options
> are: debug, save to file or quit.
>
> Component: pirut
>
> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
retrieve
> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
> verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 650, in <module>
>
>     main()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 643, in main
>
>     pup = PackageUpdater(not options.autoapply, options.config)
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 88, in __init__
>
>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False, config)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
in
> __init__
>
>     self.reset()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
in
> reset
>
>     self.doTsSetup()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
> doTsSetup
>
>     return self._getTs()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
> _getTs
>
>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
in
> <lambda>
>
>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
in
> _getSacks
>
>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
> populateSack
>
>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
> populate
>
>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
> _check_db_version
>
>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
> <lambda>
>
>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
> _getRepoXML
>
>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>
> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Local variables in innermost frame:
>
> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
> self: adobe-linux
>
> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
> mirrors to try.
>
>
> Component: pirut
>
> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
retrieve
> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
> verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>
>     main()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>
>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>
>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
in
> __init__
>
>     self.reset()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
in
> reset
>
>     self.doTsSetup()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
> doTsSetup
>
>     return self._getTs()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
> _getTs
>
>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
in
> <lambda>
>
>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
in
> _getSacks
>
>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
> populateSack
>
>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
> populate
>
>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
> _check_db_version
>
>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
> <lambda>
>
>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
> _getRepoXML
>
>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>
> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Local variables in innermost frame:
>
> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
> self: adobe-linux
>
> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
> mirrors to try.
>
>
> Component: pirut
>
> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
retrieve
> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
> verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>
>     main()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>
>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>
>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>
>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
in
> __init__
>
>     self.reset()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
in
> reset
>
>     self.doTsSetup()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
> doTsSetup
>
>     return self._getTs()
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
> _getTs
>
>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
in
> <lambda>
>
>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
in
> _getSacks
>
>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
> populateSack
>
>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
> populate
>
>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
> _check_db_version
>
>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
> <lambda>
>
>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
> _getRepoXML
>
>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>
> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
>
>
> Local variables in innermost frame:
>
> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>
> self: adobe-linux
>
> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
> mirrors to try.
>
> ---- Brian Dunnette <bdunnette at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Danny-
> >
> > As far as I can tell, all you'd have to do is browse to the Flash
> download
> > page:
> >
> >
>
http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=Sho
ckwaveFlash
> >
> > When you're there, select option 3 (YUM), and follow the YUM
> instructions--
> >
> > YUM repository installation
> >
> >    1. Click the "Download .rpm" link. A dialog box will appear
asking
> you
> >    where to save the file.
> >    2. Save the .rpm file to your desktop and wait for the file to
> >    download completely.
> >    3. In terminal, navigate to the desktop and type # rpm -Uvh
> >    <rpm_package_file>. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a
root
> user).
> >    4. Once the installation is complete, in terminal, type # yum
install
> >    flash-plugin. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root
user).
> >    5. To verify the plugin is installed in Mozilla, launch Mozilla
and
> >    choose Help > About Plug-ins from the browser menu.
> >    6. To get the most up-to-date Flash Player in the future, simply
type
> >    # yum update flash-plugin in terminal. You will not need to
repeat
> steps
> >    1-4.
> >
> > Hope this helps -- let us know if you have other questions!
> >
> > -Brian D.
> >
> > P.S. Just an etiquette tip: try not to re-post the entire digest --
the
> > Delete key is a wonderful thing!
> >
> > On 10/27/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Would someone be so kind as to give me *detailed* instructions on
how
> to
> > > install Adobe flash player in Fedora 7? I am still pretty new with
> Linux.
> > > Please advise.
> > >
> > > Thanx!
> > >
> > > Danny J.
> > >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071028/ad
eb0911/attachment-0001.htm 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:03 +0600
From: Emon <emon at lavabit.com>
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm question
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <472553F7.4040208 at lavabit.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi everybody

I am running openSUSE 10.3 with KDE desktop.

I installed the "pidgin" pkg with YaST which in turn installed a couple
of more pkgs to resolve dependencies.

My question is if I ever decide to uninstall "pidgin" how can I trace
those pkgs which were installed to resolve dependencies & uninstall
them?? either using YaST or from CLI.

My second question is about rpm & deb packages & thus might be very
contentions so a little bit of history first as I don't intend to start
a flame war here.......

this is how I started using linux & then moved on to different distros

RH-7.3 -> RH-8 -> Slackware-9.1 -> Slackware-10 -> Slackware-10.1 ->
Slackware-10.2 -> Slackware-11 -> NovelSuse-10.1 -> openSUSE-10.2 ->
openSUSE-10.3

as you have probably noticed I have no exposure to Debian or any of it's
derivative distros, but recently I have been listening to a lot of noise
regarding .deb pkgs from different people, so I even gave Ubuntu-7.04 a
shot when it was released... but I had other problems..

1)having shifted from M$-windows I have alway found KDE more appealing,
thus kind of dependent on it, so I didn't exactly try Ubuntu; rather
Kubuntu-7.04(DVD).

2) but I use applications which are sometimes very heavily dependent on
GNOME (pidgin, ekiga to name a few..). Sure many people suggested just
do "sudo apt-get foo" & everything will be fine, but I live in
Bangladesh & don't have broadband (internet is not a way of life here,
yet) and can't taken advantages of the facilities that modern package
managers offer may it be apt synaptic or YaST.

So by now you guys know why I had to ditch Kubuntu & stick to a distro
which by default had good support for both KDE & GNOME....

coming back to pkg management... I hear from a friend that when you
uninstall a .deb pkg in Debian (or any of it's derivative distros) the
pkg manager also uninstalls the pkgs those were installed to resolve
dependencies... sound pretty neat... is it true?? if so is it possible
to achieve this on rpm based distros??

Hope I did not offend/hurt any body's feelings
Emon




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:21:35 -0500
From: "Brock Noland" <brockn at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID:
	<741dcbb80710290721x68c1eeb8qd510f08032f44041 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The resolution you referring to is probably 1024x768.  I wonder if
your graphics card has a "restricted driver" meaning that the
manufacturer only provides a binary driver.  Once logged in try
"System -> Admin -> Restricted Drivers Manager"

Brock

On 10/26/07, Steven Huntsman <k0sdh at visi.com> wrote:
> Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of
Firefox
> and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate
> problem).
> Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to
> download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using
> Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?
> resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
>
> Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to
connect
> to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both
> browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for
Opera
> browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other
web
> sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web
> page--that's a spam control tactic].
>
> Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a
window
> came upwhich stated
> "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics
card
> could not be detected
> correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple
screens,
> you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with
> statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
> Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
>
> Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
> Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
> Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't
like -
> web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
>
> The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the
last
> two years without any intervention on my part.
>
> How do I get higher resolution back??
> How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
> Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
>
> Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910)
they
> were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however
the
> download site doesn't respond today.
>
> Thanks for you time,
> Steve
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 35
******************************************


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1098 - Release Date:
10/29/2007 9:28 AM




From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 07:07:39 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:07:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP timezone/DST issues
In-Reply-To: <786160.99979.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <47f4d5e70710310435q39650824k8ddc39c111e89043@mail.gmail.com>
	<786160.99979.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710310507o16be3a4amcb2ad2cd315d17f9@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like FreeBSD 6.x

Right now it looks like trying to update via ports is pretty horked on
this system.  The guy who built this server was a fan of FreeBSD but I
don't think he ever managed a FreeBSD long term through the necessary
upgrades.  BSD's not really my familiar territory so I'm not inclined
to troubleshoot ports.

I'm prepping a new web server but was hoping in the meantime I might
be missing something trivial to scotch-tape this thing into holding on
for a few hours.

On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> i dont know. what distro are you using?  you could probibilly just update php to 5.20+.
>
> Donovan wrote:
> > I have an apache2/php server running that decided DST was last week
> > (must not have been patched last year).  I patched everything I could
> > and my PHP apps are still showing an hour behind, only from the web.
> > If I run the following code from bash:
> > # date
> > Wed Oct 31 06:32:47 CDT 2007
> > # echo '<?=date("h:i:s")?>' | php
> > 06:32:47
> > ...I get the correct time.  Thinking that maybe somehow PHP is
> > misreading the timezone I tried this:
> > # echo '<?
> > echo "Original Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
> > putenv("TZ=US/Central");
> > mktime(0,0,0,1,1,1970);
> > echo "New Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
> > ?> ' | php
> > ...and strangely receive this:
> > Original Time: 06:33:26
> > New Time: 11:33:26
> > There is no timezone set in my php.ini and nothing hard set in any of
> > my PHP scripts.  I seem to be missing something major.  I'm tempted to
> > move the few sites I have on this box to a fresh and DST patched
> > system but it'd be nice to see if somebody has racked their brain with
> > this one before.
> > --
> > Donovan Niesen
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 07:03:16 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:03:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP timezone/DST issues
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70710310435q39650824k8ddc39c111e89043@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <786160.99979.qm@web33703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i dont know. what distro are you using?  you could probibilly just update php to 5.20+.

Donovan wrote: 
> I have an apache2/php server running that decided DST was last week
> (must not have been patched last year).  I patched everything I could
> and my PHP apps are still showing an hour behind, only from the web.
> If I run the following code from bash:
> # date
> Wed Oct 31 06:32:47 CDT 2007
> # echo '<?=date("h:i:s")?>' | php
> 06:32:47
> ...I get the correct time.  Thinking that maybe somehow PHP is
> misreading the timezone I tried this:
> # echo '<?
> echo "Original Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
> putenv("TZ=US/Central");
> mktime(0,0,0,1,1,1970);
> echo "New Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
> ?> ' | php
> ...and strangely receive this:
> Original Time: 06:33:26
> New Time: 11:33:26
> There is no timezone set in my php.ini and nothing hard set in any of
> my PHP scripts.  I seem to be missing something major.  I'm tempted to
> move the few sites I have on this box to a fresh and DST patched
> system but it'd be nice to see if somebody has racked their brain with
> this one before.
> -- 
> Donovan Niesen
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 07:15:29 2007
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (Troy)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:15:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
Message-ID: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a Sprint customer,
and want to stay with Sprint because of the excellent reception I receive.
Thus far, I've narrowed my options to the Palm Centro and the Palm 755p, but
I have a few questions before making my decision final.

1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software
available on Linux for syncing with the Palm?  I'm currently running Ubuntu
7.10.
2.  Can someone who's used either phone share some pros and cons?
3.  The primary use of the phone is for contacts, scheduling, and as a
phone.  However, I will use the internet frequently between appointments.
One feature neither device has is wifi, but I'm not sure if wifi is
necessary with Sprints EVDO.  Is there another phone I should consider?
4.  Being a Linux buff, I'd like nothing more than to have a smart phone
that runs Linux.  Does anyone know of a smart phone that runs Linux and will
work on the Sprint network?

Thanks for your help and advice.

Troy

-- 
Website of the week:
http://www.treehugger.com

The Free Alternative to M$ Office:
http://www.openoffice.org

My Blog:
http://troythetechguy.blogspot.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071031/1cbae0d5/attachment-0001.htm 

From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 07:19:28 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP timezone/DST issues
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70710310507o16be3a4amcb2ad2cd315d17f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <441490.33698.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

do you know how to use ssh file transfer? i know in the source code fix.

Donovan wrote: 
> Looks like FreeBSD 6.x
> Right now it looks like trying to update via ports is pretty horked on
> this system.  The guy who built this server was a fan of FreeBSD but I
> don't think he ever managed a FreeBSD long term through the necessary
> upgrades.  BSD's not really my familiar territory so I'm not inclined
> to troubleshoot ports.
> I'm prepping a new web server but was hoping in the meantime I might
> be missing something trivial to scotch-tape this thing into holding on
> for a few hours.
> On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> i dont know. what distro are you using?  you could probibilly just update php to 5.20+.
>>
>> Donovan wrote:
>> > I have an apache2/php server running that decided DST was last week
>> > (must not have been patched last year).  I patched everything I could
>> > and my PHP apps are still showing an hour behind, only from the web.
>> > If I run the following code from bash:
>> > # date
>> > Wed Oct 31 06:32:47 CDT 2007
>> > # echo '<?=date("h:i:s")?>' | php
>> > 06:32:47
>> > ...I get the correct time.  Thinking that maybe somehow PHP is
>> > misreading the timezone I tried this:
>> > # echo '<?
>> > echo "Original Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
>> > putenv("TZ=US/Central");
>> > mktime(0,0,0,1,1,1970);
>> > echo "New Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
>> > ?> ' | php
>> > ...and strangely receive this:
>> > Original Time: 06:33:26
>> > New Time: 11:33:26
>> > There is no timezone set in my php.ini and nothing hard set in any of
>> > my PHP scripts.  I seem to be missing something major.  I'm tempted to
>> > move the few sites I have on this box to a fresh and DST patched
>> > system but it'd be nice to see if somebody has racked their brain with
>> > this one before.
>> > --
>> > Donovan Niesen
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
> -- 
> Donovan Niesen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Oct 31 07:26:45 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:26:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47287485.9070500@mtu.net>

Troy wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a Sprint
> customer, and want to stay with Sprint because of the excellent
> reception I receive.  Thus far, I've narrowed my options to the Palm
> Centro and the Palm 755p, but I have a few questions before making my
> decision final.
>
> 1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software
> available on Linux for syncing with the Palm?  I'm currently running
> Ubuntu 7.10.
Yes.  I've used gnome-pilot with evolution and I'm now using jpilot-sync
with jpilot (because I switched from evolution to Thunderbird).

> 4.  Being a Linux buff, I'd like nothing more than to have a smart
> phone that runs Linux.  Does anyone know of a smart phone that runs
> Linux and will work on the Sprint network?
>
There's that Nokia phone, but I don't know if it works with Sprint.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From josh at joshwelch.com  Wed Oct 31 07:26:39 2007
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:26:39 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Adobe Flash Player
In-Reply-To: <1DFA928547E9498CB059C93D92781ABC@JohnnyPC>
References: <1DFA928547E9498CB059C93D92781ABC@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <20071031122639.ied7pflmsg8oskck@joshwelch.com>

- Google for flash, you should get the Adobe download page as the first hit
- Go to the download page and select option 2, download the RPM. Save  
the RPM file somewhere and remember where it is.
- Open a command prompt, change directories to where the RPM is and do  
one of these:
rpm -Uvh flash-plugin-9.0.48.0-release.i386.rpm

That should do it for you.

Josh

Quoting Danny <bunjee at charter.net>:

> I still need detailed instructions on how to install flash player for
> Fedora 7. Listed below is a bunch of garbage I do not understand & some
> of the more knowledgeable people do not understand. I have tried all 3
> options on a certain web page and all three I can't understand.  I have
> it in the archive manager but can't figure out how to install it. It's
> somewhat like WinZip but not. Please advise.
>
> Danny J.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 9:22 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 35
>
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Installing Adobe Flash Player (Brian Dunnette)
>    2. rpm question (Emon)
>    3. Re: Screen Resolution Problem & others (Brock Noland)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:58:48 -0500
> From: "Brian Dunnette" <bdunnette at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash Player
> To: "bunjee at charter.net" <bunjee at charter.net>
> Cc: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<e9cd5840710281858o19f19691wd1d9397e72b4f0dd at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Not sure what all that means -- looks like it failed to connect to the
> repository (the server where the Flash player resides).  Did you save
> the
> .rpm file, or just open it?  This FedoraForum thread might also be of
> assistance:
>
> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/printthread.php?t=169341
>
> Again, let us know if you have any more issues!
>
> -Brian D.
>
> On 10/28/07, bunjee at charter.net <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Brian, thanx for the help. I followed the instructions you
> provided me
>> and can't even get it to download to the desktop. I will send you some
>> gobbly gook I get. when I try to download the "yum" file. I do not
> know if
>> you will be able to decipher it, but here it goes..............The
> options
>> are: debug, save to file or quit.
>>
>> Component: pirut
>>
>> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
> retrieve
>> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
>> verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 650, in <module>
>>
>>     main()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 643, in main
>>
>>     pup = PackageUpdater(not options.autoapply, options.config)
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 88, in __init__
>>
>>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False, config)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
> in
>> __init__
>>
>>     self.reset()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
> in
>> reset
>>
>>     self.doTsSetup()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
>> doTsSetup
>>
>>     return self._getTs()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
>> _getTs
>>
>>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
> in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
> in
>> _getSacks
>>
>>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
>> populateSack
>>
>>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
>> populate
>>
>>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
>> _check_db_version
>>
>>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
>> _getRepoXML
>>
>>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>>
>> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
>> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Local variables in innermost frame:
>>
>> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
>> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>> self: adobe-linux
>>
>> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
>> mirrors to try.
>>
>>
>> Component: pirut
>>
>> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
> retrieve
>> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
>> verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>>
>>     main()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>>
>>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>>
>>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
> in
>> __init__
>>
>>     self.reset()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
> in
>> reset
>>
>>     self.doTsSetup()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
>> doTsSetup
>>
>>     return self._getTs()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
>> _getTs
>>
>>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
> in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
> in
>> _getSacks
>>
>>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
>> populateSack
>>
>>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
>> populate
>>
>>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
>> _check_db_version
>>
>>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
>> _getRepoXML
>>
>>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>>
>> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
>> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Local variables in innermost frame:
>>
>> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
>> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>> self: adobe-linux
>>
>> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
>> mirrors to try.
>>
>>
>> Component: pirut
>>
>> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
> retrieve
>> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
>> verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>>
>>     main()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>>
>>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>>
>>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
> in
>> __init__
>>
>>     self.reset()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
> in
>> reset
>>
>>     self.doTsSetup()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
>> doTsSetup
>>
>>     return self._getTs()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
>> _getTs
>>
>>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
> in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
> in
>> _getSacks
>>
>>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
>> populateSack
>>
>>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
>> populate
>>
>>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
>> _check_db_version
>>
>>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
>> _getRepoXML
>>
>>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>>
>> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
>> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Local variables in innermost frame:
>>
>> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
>> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>> self: adobe-linux
>>
>> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
>> mirrors to try.
>>
>> ---- Brian Dunnette <bdunnette at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Danny-
>> >
>> > As far as I can tell, all you'd have to do is browse to the Flash
>> download
>> > page:
>> >
>> >
>>
> http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=Sho
> ckwaveFlash
>> >
>> > When you're there, select option 3 (YUM), and follow the YUM
>> instructions--
>> >
>> > YUM repository installation
>> >
>> >    1. Click the "Download .rpm" link. A dialog box will appear
> asking
>> you
>> >    where to save the file.
>> >    2. Save the .rpm file to your desktop and wait for the file to
>> >    download completely.
>> >    3. In terminal, navigate to the desktop and type # rpm -Uvh
>> >    <rpm_package_file>. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a
> root
>> user).
>> >    4. Once the installation is complete, in terminal, type # yum
> install
>> >    flash-plugin. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root
> user).
>> >    5. To verify the plugin is installed in Mozilla, launch Mozilla
> and
>> >    choose Help > About Plug-ins from the browser menu.
>> >    6. To get the most up-to-date Flash Player in the future, simply
> type
>> >    # yum update flash-plugin in terminal. You will not need to
> repeat
>> steps
>> >    1-4.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps -- let us know if you have other questions!
>> >
>> > -Brian D.
>> >
>> > P.S. Just an etiquette tip: try not to re-post the entire digest --
> the
>> > Delete key is a wonderful thing!
>> >
>> > On 10/27/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  Would someone be so kind as to give me *detailed* instructions on
> how
>> to
>> > > install Adobe flash player in Fedora 7? I am still pretty new with
>> Linux.
>> > > Please advise.
>> > >
>> > > Thanx!
>> > >
>> > > Danny J.
>> > >
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071028/ad
> eb0911/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:03 +0600
> From: Emon <emon at lavabit.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] rpm question
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <472553F7.4040208 at lavabit.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi everybody
>
> I am running openSUSE 10.3 with KDE desktop.
>
> I installed the "pidgin" pkg with YaST which in turn installed a couple
> of more pkgs to resolve dependencies.
>
> My question is if I ever decide to uninstall "pidgin" how can I trace
> those pkgs which were installed to resolve dependencies & uninstall
> them?? either using YaST or from CLI.
>
> My second question is about rpm & deb packages & thus might be very
> contentions so a little bit of history first as I don't intend to start
> a flame war here.......
>
> this is how I started using linux & then moved on to different distros
>
> RH-7.3 -> RH-8 -> Slackware-9.1 -> Slackware-10 -> Slackware-10.1 ->
> Slackware-10.2 -> Slackware-11 -> NovelSuse-10.1 -> openSUSE-10.2 ->
> openSUSE-10.3
>
> as you have probably noticed I have no exposure to Debian or any of it's
> derivative distros, but recently I have been listening to a lot of noise
> regarding .deb pkgs from different people, so I even gave Ubuntu-7.04 a
> shot when it was released... but I had other problems..
>
> 1)having shifted from M$-windows I have alway found KDE more appealing,
> thus kind of dependent on it, so I didn't exactly try Ubuntu; rather
> Kubuntu-7.04(DVD).
>
> 2) but I use applications which are sometimes very heavily dependent on
> GNOME (pidgin, ekiga to name a few..). Sure many people suggested just
> do "sudo apt-get foo" & everything will be fine, but I live in
> Bangladesh & don't have broadband (internet is not a way of life here,
> yet) and can't taken advantages of the facilities that modern package
> managers offer may it be apt synaptic or YaST.
>
> So by now you guys know why I had to ditch Kubuntu & stick to a distro
> which by default had good support for both KDE & GNOME....
>
> coming back to pkg management... I hear from a friend that when you
> uninstall a .deb pkg in Debian (or any of it's derivative distros) the
> pkg manager also uninstalls the pkgs those were installed to resolve
> dependencies... sound pretty neat... is it true?? if so is it possible
> to achieve this on rpm based distros??
>
> Hope I did not offend/hurt any body's feelings
> Emon
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:21:35 -0500
> From: "Brock Noland" <brockn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<741dcbb80710290721x68c1eeb8qd510f08032f44041 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The resolution you referring to is probably 1024x768.  I wonder if
> your graphics card has a "restricted driver" meaning that the
> manufacturer only provides a binary driver.  Once logged in try
> "System -> Admin -> Restricted Drivers Manager"
>
> Brock
>
> On 10/26/07, Steven Huntsman <k0sdh at visi.com> wrote:
>> Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of
> Firefox
>> and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate
>> problem).
>> Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to
>> download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using
>> Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?
>> resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
>>
>> Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to
> connect
>> to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both
>> browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for
> Opera
>> browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other
> web
>> sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web
>> page--that's a spam control tactic].
>>
>> Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a
> window
>> came upwhich stated
>> "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics
> card
>> could not be detected
>> correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple
> screens,
>> you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with
>> statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
>> Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
>>
>> Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
>> Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
>> Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't
> like -
>> web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
>>
>> The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the
> last
>> two years without any intervention on my part.
>>
>> How do I get higher resolution back??
>> How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
>> Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
>>
>> Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910)
> they
>> were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however
> the
>> download site doesn't respond today.
>>
>> Thanks for you time,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> --
>> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 35
> ******************************************
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1098 - Release Date:
> 10/29/2007 9:28 AM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>





From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 07:34:32 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:34:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP timezone/DST issues
In-Reply-To: <441490.33698.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <47f4d5e70710310507o16be3a4amcb2ad2cd315d17f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<441490.33698.qm@web33702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70710310534o73a1bb5dqb123b207e57ff1f5@mail.gmail.com>

I sure do.  What do you propose?

On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> do you know how to use ssh file transfer? i know in the source code fix.
>
> Donovan wrote:
> > Looks like FreeBSD 6.x
> > Right now it looks like trying to update via ports is pretty horked on
> > this system.  The guy who built this server was a fan of FreeBSD but I
> > don't think he ever managed a FreeBSD long term through the necessary
> > upgrades.  BSD's not really my familiar territory so I'm not inclined
> > to troubleshoot ports.
> > I'm prepping a new web server but was hoping in the meantime I might
> > be missing something trivial to scotch-tape this thing into holding on
> > for a few hours.
> > On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> i dont know. what distro are you using?  you could probibilly just update php to 5.20+.
> >>
> >> Donovan wrote:
> >> > I have an apache2/php server running that decided DST was last week
> >> > (must not have been patched last year).  I patched everything I could
> >> > and my PHP apps are still showing an hour behind, only from the web.
> >> > If I run the following code from bash:
> >> > # date
> >> > Wed Oct 31 06:32:47 CDT 2007
> >> > # echo '<?=date("h:i:s")?>' | php
> >> > 06:32:47
> >> > ...I get the correct time.  Thinking that maybe somehow PHP is
> >> > misreading the timezone I tried this:
> >> > # echo '<?
> >> > echo "Original Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
> >> > putenv("TZ=US/Central");
> >> > mktime(0,0,0,1,1,1970);
> >> > echo "New Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
> >> > ?> ' | php
> >> > ...and strangely receive this:
> >> > Original Time: 06:33:26
> >> > New Time: 11:33:26
> >> > There is no timezone set in my php.ini and nothing hard set in any of
> >> > my PHP scripts.  I seem to be missing something major.  I'm tempted to
> >> > move the few sites I have on this box to a fresh and DST patched
> >> > system but it'd be nice to see if somebody has racked their brain with
> >> > this one before.
> >> > --
> >> > Donovan Niesen
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> > --
> > Donovan Niesen
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 07:40:26 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:40:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP timezone/DST issues
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70710310534o73a1bb5dqb123b207e57ff1f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <263454.38387.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

that you get the source code and install it on the server.

Donovan wrote: 
> I sure do.  What do you propose?
> On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> do you know how to use ssh file transfer? i know in the source code fix.
>>
>> Donovan wrote:
>> > Looks like FreeBSD 6.x
>> > Right now it looks like trying to update via ports is pretty horked on
>> > this system.  The guy who built this server was a fan of FreeBSD but I
>> > don't think he ever managed a FreeBSD long term through the necessary
>> > upgrades.  BSD's not really my familiar territory so I'm not inclined
>> > to troubleshoot ports.
>> > I'm prepping a new web server but was hoping in the meantime I might
>> > be missing something trivial to scotch-tape this thing into holding on
>> > for a few hours.
>> > On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> i dont know. what distro are you using?  you could probibilly just update php to 5.20+.
>> >>
>> >> Donovan wrote:
>> >> > I have an apache2/php server running that decided DST was last week
>> >> > (must not have been patched last year).  I patched everything I could
>> >> > and my PHP apps are still showing an hour behind, only from the web.
>> >> > If I run the following code from bash:
>> >> > # date
>> >> > Wed Oct 31 06:32:47 CDT 2007
>> >> > # echo '<?=date("h:i:s")?>' | php
>> >> > 06:32:47
>> >> > ...I get the correct time.  Thinking that maybe somehow PHP is
>> >> > misreading the timezone I tried this:
>> >> > # echo '<?
>> >> > echo "Original Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
>> >> > putenv("TZ=US/Central");
>> >> > mktime(0,0,0,1,1,1970);
>> >> > echo "New Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
>> >> > ?> ' | php
>> >> > ...and strangely receive this:
>> >> > Original Time: 06:33:26
>> >> > New Time: 11:33:26
>> >> > There is no timezone set in my php.ini and nothing hard set in any of
>> >> > my PHP scripts.  I seem to be missing something major.  I'm tempted to
>> >> > move the few sites I have on this box to a fresh and DST patched
>> >> > system but it'd be nice to see if somebody has racked their brain with
>> >> > this one before.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Donovan Niesen
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________
>> >> Do You Yahoo!?
>> >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >>
>> > --
>> > Donovan Niesen
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
> -- 
> Donovan Niesen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 07:37:47 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:37:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Adobe Flash Player
In-Reply-To: <1DFA928547E9498CB059C93D92781ABC@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <293469.93706.qm@web33713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

yeah. someone who knows python would know. try my firefox trick of going to a website with a flash applacation and firefox will install it 4 u

Danny wrote: 
> I still need detailed instructions on how to install flash player for
> Fedora 7. Listed below is a bunch of garbage I do not understand & some
> of the more knowledgeable people do not understand. I have tried all 3
> options on a certain web page and all three I can't understand.  I have
> it in the archive manager but can't figure out how to install it. It's
> somewhat like WinZip but not. Please advise.
> Danny J.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of
> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 9:22 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 35
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>    1. Re: Installing Adobe Flash Player (Brian Dunnette)
>    2. rpm question (Emon)
>    3. Re: Screen Resolution Problem & others (Brock Noland)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:58:48 -0500
> From: "Brian Dunnette" <bdunnette at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Adobe Flash Player
> To: "bunjee at charter.net" <bunjee at charter.net>
> Cc: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<e9cd5840710281858o19f19691wd1d9397e72b4f0dd at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Not sure what all that means -- looks like it failed to connect to the
> repository (the server where the Flash player resides).  Did you save
> the
> .rpm file, or just open it?  This FedoraForum thread might also be of
> assistance:
> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/printthread.php?t=169341
> Again, let us know if you have any more issues!
> -Brian D.
> On 10/28/07, bunjee at charter.net <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Brian, thanx for the help. I followed the instructions you
> provided me
>> and can't even get it to download to the desktop. I will send you some
>> gobbly gook I get. when I try to download the "yum" file. I do not
> know if
>> you will be able to decipher it, but here it goes..............The
> options
>> are: debug, save to file or quit.
>>
>> Component: pirut
>>
>> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
> retrieve
>> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
>> verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 650, in <module>
>>
>>     main()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 643, in main
>>
>>     pup = PackageUpdater(not options.autoapply, options.config)
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/pup", line 88, in __init__
>>
>>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False, config)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
> in
>> __init__
>>
>>     self.reset()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
> in
>> reset
>>
>>     self.doTsSetup()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
>> doTsSetup
>>
>>     return self._getTs()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
>> _getTs
>>
>>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
> in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
> in
>> _getSacks
>>
>>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
>> populateSack
>>
>>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
>> populate
>>
>>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
>> _check_db_version
>>
>>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
>> _getRepoXML
>>
>>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>>
>> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
>> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Local variables in innermost frame:
>>
>> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
>> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>> self: adobe-linux
>>
>> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
>> mirrors to try.
>>
>>
>> Component: pirut
>>
>> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
> retrieve
>> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
>> verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>>
>>     main()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>>
>>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>>
>>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
> in
>> __init__
>>
>>     self.reset()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
> in
>> reset
>>
>>     self.doTsSetup()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
>> doTsSetup
>>
>>     return self._getTs()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
>> _getTs
>>
>>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
> in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
> in
>> _getSacks
>>
>>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
>> populateSack
>>
>>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
>> populate
>>
>>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
>> _check_db_version
>>
>>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
>> _getRepoXML
>>
>>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>>
>> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
>> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Local variables in innermost frame:
>>
>> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
>> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>> self: adobe-linux
>>
>> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
>> mirrors to try.
>>
>>
>> Component: pirut
>>
>> Summary: TB3e8fa63e yumRepo.py:765:_getRepoXML:RepoError: Cannot
> retrieve
>> repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: adobe-linux. Please
>> verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 347, in <module>
>>
>>     main()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 340, in main
>>
>>     pkginst = SinglePackageInstaller()
>>
>>   File "/usr/sbin/system-install-packages", line 61, in __init__
>>
>>     GraphicalYumBase.__init__(self, False)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 124,
> in
>> __init__
>>
>>     self.reset()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pirut/__init__.py", line 223,
> in
>> reset
>>
>>     self.doTsSetup()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 63, in
>> doTsSetup
>>
>>     return self._getTs()
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/depsolve.py", line 77, in
>> _getTs
>>
>>     self._tsInfo.setDatabases(self.rpmdb, self.pkgSack)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 526,
> in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     pkgSack = property(fget=lambda self: self._getSacks(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/__init__.py", line 381,
> in
>> _getSacks
>>
>>     self.repos.populateSack(which=repos)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/repos.py", line 242, in
>> populateSack
>>
>>     sack.populate(repo, mdtype, callback, cacheonly)
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 142, in
>> populate
>>
>>     if self._check_db_version(repo, mydbtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 199, in
>> _check_db_version
>>
>>     if repo.repoXML.repoData.has_key(mdtype):
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 769, in
>> <lambda>
>>
>>     repoXML = property(fget=lambda self: self._getRepoXML(),
>>
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/yum/yumRepo.py", line 765, in
>> _getRepoXML
>>
>>     raise Errors.RepoError, msg
>>
>> RepoError: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for
>> repository: adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>>
>>
>> Local variables in innermost frame:
>>
>> msg: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository:
>> adobe-linux. Please verify its path and try again
>>
>> self: adobe-linux
>>
>> e: failure: repodata/repomd.xml from adobe-linux: [Errno 256] No more
>> mirrors to try.
>>
>> ---- Brian Dunnette <bdunnette at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Danny-
>> >
>> > As far as I can tell, all you'd have to do is browse to the Flash
>> download
>> > page:
>> >
>> >
>>
> http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=Sho
> ckwaveFlash
>> >
>> > When you're there, select option 3 (YUM), and follow the YUM
>> instructions--
>> >
>> > YUM repository installation
>> >
>> >    1. Click the "Download .rpm" link. A dialog box will appear
> asking
>> you
>> >    where to save the file.
>> >    2. Save the .rpm file to your desktop and wait for the file to
>> >    download completely.
>> >    3. In terminal, navigate to the desktop and type # rpm -Uvh
>> >    <rpm_package_file>. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a
> root
>> user).
>> >    4. Once the installation is complete, in terminal, type # yum
> install
>> >    flash-plugin. Click Enter. (Note: This must be done as a root
> user).
>> >    5. To verify the plugin is installed in Mozilla, launch Mozilla
> and
>> >    choose Help > About Plug-ins from the browser menu.
>> >    6. To get the most up-to-date Flash Player in the future, simply
> type
>> >    # yum update flash-plugin in terminal. You will not need to
> repeat
>> steps
>> >    1-4.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps -- let us know if you have other questions!
>> >
>> > -Brian D.
>> >
>> > P.S. Just an etiquette tip: try not to re-post the entire digest --
> the
>> > Delete key is a wonderful thing!
>> >
>> > On 10/27/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >  Would someone be so kind as to give me *detailed* instructions on
> how
>> to
>> > > install Adobe flash player in Fedora 7? I am still pretty new with
>> Linux.
>> > > Please advise.
>> > >
>> > > Thanx!
>> > >
>> > > Danny J.
>> > >
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20071028/ad
> eb0911/attachment-0001.htm 
> ------------------------------
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:03 +0600
> From: Emon <emon at lavabit.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] rpm question
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <472553F7.4040208 at lavabit.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Hi everybody
> I am running openSUSE 10.3 with KDE desktop.
> I installed the "pidgin" pkg with YaST which in turn installed a couple
> of more pkgs to resolve dependencies.
> My question is if I ever decide to uninstall "pidgin" how can I trace
> those pkgs which were installed to resolve dependencies & uninstall
> them?? either using YaST or from CLI.
> My second question is about rpm & deb packages & thus might be very
> contentions so a little bit of history first as I don't intend to start
> a flame war here.......
> this is how I started using linux & then moved on to different distros
> RH-7.3 -> RH-8 -> Slackware-9.1 -> Slackware-10 -> Slackware-10.1 ->
> Slackware-10.2 -> Slackware-11 -> NovelSuse-10.1 -> openSUSE-10.2 ->
> openSUSE-10.3
> as you have probably noticed I have no exposure to Debian or any of it's
> derivative distros, but recently I have been listening to a lot of noise
> regarding .deb pkgs from different people, so I even gave Ubuntu-7.04 a
> shot when it was released... but I had other problems..
> 1)having shifted from M$-windows I have alway found KDE more appealing,
> thus kind of dependent on it, so I didn't exactly try Ubuntu; rather
> Kubuntu-7.04(DVD).
> 2) but I use applications which are sometimes very heavily dependent on
> GNOME (pidgin, ekiga to name a few..). Sure many people suggested just
> do "sudo apt-get foo" & everything will be fine, but I live in
> Bangladesh & don't have broadband (internet is not a way of life here,
> yet) and can't taken advantages of the facilities that modern package
> managers offer may it be apt synaptic or YaST.
> So by now you guys know why I had to ditch Kubuntu & stick to a distro
> which by default had good support for both KDE & GNOME....
> coming back to pkg management... I hear from a friend that when you
> uninstall a .deb pkg in Debian (or any of it's derivative distros) the
> pkg manager also uninstalls the pkgs those were installed to resolve
> dependencies... sound pretty neat... is it true?? if so is it possible
> to achieve this on rpm based distros??
> Hope I did not offend/hurt any body's feelings
> Emon
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:21:35 -0500
> From: "Brock Noland" <brockn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Screen Resolution Problem & others
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<741dcbb80710290721x68c1eeb8qd510f08032f44041 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> The resolution you referring to is probably 1024x768.  I wonder if
> your graphics card has a "restricted driver" meaning that the
> manufacturer only provides a binary driver.  Once logged in try
> "System -> Admin -> Restricted Drivers Manager"
> Brock
> On 10/26/07, Steven Huntsman <k0sdh at visi.com> wrote:
>> Last weekend I updated to Ubuntu7.10 along with new versions of
> Firefox
>> and Opera (I like Opera when it works but that's not the immediate
>> problem).
>> Formerly (before updates) Firefox worked OK but Opera took so long to
>> download anything it was basically unusable (that's why was using
>> Firefox).  Also I operated my 19 inch Gateway monitor at 107? x 78?
>> resolution (sorry I can't remember exact number).
>>
>> Immediately after updates the Firefox became so slow (or time to
> connect
>> to provider) it is unusable; however now Opera works great for both
>> browsing and email (however my provider doesn't support/provide for
> Opera
>> browser so I can't view email in browser at provider web site; other
> web
>> sites work OK) [I have to use 'Windows' box to view email on web
>> page--that's a spam control tactic].
>>
>> Now the problem::  Yesterday when I booted this Linux machine, a
> window
>> came upwhich stated
>> "Ununtu is running in low-graphics mode.  Your screen and graphics
> card
>> could not be detected
>> correctly.  To use higher resolution, visual effects or multiple
> screens,
>> you have to configure the display yourself" A little radio button with
>> statement "Always run in low-graphics mode"
>> Three large radio buttons 1. "Configure" 2. "Shut down" 3. "Continue"
>>
>> Button 1 wants to know what graphics card
>> Button 2 restarts the machine (does not shut down)
>> Button 3 starts the machine in 800 x 600 resolution (which I don't
> like -
>> web pages overflow the screen and no position sliders appear.
>>
>> The machine has worked at 107? x 780 resolution for approximatly the
> last
>> two years without any intervention on my part.
>>
>> How do I get higher resolution back??
>> How do I test my video card (if there is one)?
>> Where is a store/repair shop that knows Linux machines?
>>
>> Incidently upon going to Gateway web site (monitor is Gateway EV910)
> they
>> were bought by Acer last week and the first web page comes up however
> the
>> download site doesn't respond today.
>>
>> Thanks for you time,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> --
>> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 35
> ******************************************
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1098 - Release Date:
> 10/29/2007 9:28 AM
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 07:45:42 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:45:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <47287485.9070500@mtu.net>
Message-ID: <523606.20546.qm@web33704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

it was built for sprint only and runs ubuntu 7.10!

Jon Schewe wrote: 
> Troy wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a Sprint
>> customer, and want to stay with Sprint because of the excellent
>> reception I receive.  Thus far, I've narrowed my options to the Palm
>> Centro and the Palm 755p, but I have a few questions before making my
>> decision final.
>>
>> 1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software
>> available on Linux for syncing with the Palm?  I'm currently running
>> Ubuntu 7.10.
> Yes.  I've used gnome-pilot with evolution and I'm now using jpilot-sync
> with jpilot (because I switched from evolution to Thunderbird).
>> 4.  Being a Linux buff, I'd like nothing more than to have a smart
>> phone that runs Linux.  Does anyone know of a smart phone that runs
>> Linux and will work on the Sprint network?
>>
> There's that Nokia phone, but I don't know if it works with Sprint.
> -- 
> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
> signature.
> See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
> For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
> nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
> powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
> creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
> is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 07:44:16 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <47287485.9070500@mtu.net>
Message-ID: <630953.37701.qm@web33706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

it was built for sprint only and runs ubuntu 7.10!

Jon Schewe wrote: 
> Troy wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a Sprint
>> customer, and want to stay with Sprint because of the excellent
>> reception I receive.  Thus far, I've narrowed my options to the Palm
>> Centro and the Palm 755p, but I have a few questions before making my
>> decision final.
>>
>> 1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software
>> available on Linux for syncing with the Palm?  I'm currently running
>> Ubuntu 7.10.
> Yes.  I've used gnome-pilot with evolution and I'm now using jpilot-sync
> with jpilot (because I switched from evolution to Thunderbird).
>> 4.  Being a Linux buff, I'd like nothing more than to have a smart
>> phone that runs Linux.  Does anyone know of a smart phone that runs
>> Linux and will work on the Sprint network?
>>
> There's that Nokia phone, but I don't know if it works with Sprint.
> -- 
> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
> signature.
> See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
> For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
> nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
> powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
> creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
> is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From anna2edw at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 31 07:48:42 2007
From: anna2edw at yahoo.com (Anna Edwards)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP timezone/DST issues
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70710310534o73a1bb5dqb123b207e57ff1f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <179745.93706.qm@web33713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

that you get the source code and install it on the server.

Donovan wrote: 
> I sure do.  What do you propose?
> On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> do you know how to use ssh file transfer? i know in the source code fix.
>>
>> Donovan wrote:
>> > Looks like FreeBSD 6.x
>> > Right now it looks like trying to update via ports is pretty horked on
>> > this system.  The guy who built this server was a fan of FreeBSD but I
>> > don't think he ever managed a FreeBSD long term through the necessary
>> > upgrades.  BSD's not really my familiar territory so I'm not inclined
>> > to troubleshoot ports.
>> > I'm prepping a new web server but was hoping in the meantime I might
>> > be missing something trivial to scotch-tape this thing into holding on
>> > for a few hours.
>> > On 10/31/07, Anna Edwards <anna2edw at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> i dont know. what distro are you using?  you could probibilly just update php to 5.20+.
>> >>
>> >> Donovan wrote:
>> >> > I have an apache2/php server running that decided DST was last week
>> >> > (must not have been patched last year).  I patched everything I could
>> >> > and my PHP apps are still showing an hour behind, only from the web.
>> >> > If I run the following code from bash:
>> >> > # date
>> >> > Wed Oct 31 06:32:47 CDT 2007
>> >> > # echo '<?=date("h:i:s")?>' | php
>> >> > 06:32:47
>> >> > ...I get the correct time.  Thinking that maybe somehow PHP is
>> >> > misreading the timezone I tried this:
>> >> > # echo '<?
>> >> > echo "Original Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
>> >> > putenv("TZ=US/Central");
>> >> > mktime(0,0,0,1,1,1970);
>> >> > echo "New Time: ". date("h:i:s")."\n";
>> >> > ?> ' | php
>> >> > ...and strangely receive this:
>> >> > Original Time: 06:33:26
>> >> > New Time: 11:33:26
>> >> > There is no timezone set in my php.ini and nothing hard set in any of
>> >> > my PHP scripts.  I seem to be missing something major.  I'm tempted to
>> >> > move the few sites I have on this box to a fresh and DST patched
>> >> > system but it'd be nice to see if somebody has racked their brain with
>> >> > this one before.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Donovan Niesen
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________
>> >> Do You Yahoo!?
>> >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
>> >>
>> > --
>> > Donovan Niesen
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
> -- 
> Donovan Niesen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com  Wed Oct 31 07:50:24 2007
From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:50:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3D9EE274D1F3A4EB9AA0488B6C99FC4073C85D2@lynms601.global.ad.toro.com>

>From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Troy
>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:15 AM
>To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones

>Hello,

>I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a Sprint customer, and want to stay with Sprint because of >the excellent reception I receive.  Thus far, I've narrowed my options to the Palm Centro and the Palm 755p, but I >have a few questions before making my decision final. 

>1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software available on Linux for syncing with the >Palm?  I'm currently running Ubuntu 7.10.

I know that support exists (and has for quite some time) but have no practical experience with Palm.

>2.  Can someone who's used either phone share some pros and cons? 
>3.  The primary use of the phone is for contacts, scheduling, and as a phone.  However, I will use the internet >frequently between appointments.  One feature neither device has is wifi, but I'm not sure if wifi is necessary with >Sprints EVDO.  Is there another phone I should consider? 

I have the Treo 700wx on Sprint and the EVDO more than serves my purposes, which includes looking up websites of
Products I happen to encounter while out wandering around.

>4.  Being a Linux buff, I'd like nothing more than to have a smart phone that runs Linux.  Does anyone know of a smart >phone that runs Linux and will work on the Sprint network?

All the work of which I'm aware for Linux based smartphones has been on GSM networks.

>Thanks for your help and advice. 

>Troy
 
This electronic message including any attachments ("Message") may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under trade secret and other applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, permanently delete all copies of this Message, and be aware that examination, use, dissemination, duplication or disclosure of this Message is strictly prohibited.


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 31 08:18:38 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:18:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <C3D9EE274D1F3A4EB9AA0488B6C99FC4073C85D2@lynms601.global.ad.toro.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEPACIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Broecker
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:50 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Smartphones
>
>
> >From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Troy
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:15 AM
> >To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
>
> >Hello,
>
> >I'm considering purchasing a smart phone.  I'm currently a
> Sprint customer, and want to stay with Sprint because of >the
> excellent reception I receive.  Thus far, I've narrowed my
> options to the Palm Centro and the Palm 755p, but I >have a few
> questions before making my decision final.
>
> >1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently
> software available on Linux for syncing with the >Palm?  I'm
> currently running Ubuntu 7.10.
>
> I know that support exists (and has for quite some time) but have
> no practical experience with Palm.
>
>
> All the work of which I'm aware for Linux based smartphones has
> been on GSM networks.

Seems like Troy's Linux question is at the "applications layer" outside the
PDA, so OS, "media access" and "media" issues inside the PDA should be
irrelevant unless/until he wants to change those layers in the PDA itself.

I think the answer is "no problem" for basic hotsync and file transfer
between PDA and PC running Linux, right?


Chuck




From andyzib at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 10:48:49 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:48:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEPACIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <C3D9EE274D1F3A4EB9AA0488B6C99FC4073C85D2@lynms601.global.ad.toro.com>
	<JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEPACIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020710310848i1142b30ei9c87979ce05ccb0a@mail.gmail.com>

Syncing Palm OS with Linux is no problem. The Palm Pilot is detected
as a USB device. There used to be a kernel module for Palms, but I
haven't synced on recent kernels or with recent devices so I don't
know if it's still required or if it's been moved off into generic
USB.

Ubuntu has all the goodies you need. The package used to be called
gnome-pilot, but like all things Linux it could have evolved into
something else since I last used it.

The question is what are you going to sync it with? Are you just
looking to backup the Palm and install applications, or do you want to
sync contacts/email/etc. with Evolution or another mail client?

Evolution supports Palm syncing with little issue. There is also a
clones of the Palm Desktop.

What you don't get with Sprint is the ability to use your phone as a
modem unless you pay extra every month to enable that feature, even
though there is no real difference between the standard Vision service
and Phone as Modem service, but if you're not looking to get your
laptop access to the net through your phone you shouldn't have an
issue.

If you want your Palm to sync with your corporate Exchange server you
will want to make sure the Palm includes a recent version of Versa
mail, which supports Exchange syncing via Outlook Web Access
(Versamail uses the same method that Windows Smartphones use to sync
with Exchange wirelessly).

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 11:00:09 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:00:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0710310515l64ce81c1o1f059bc3a1e8a273@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30710310900p5fa4ec6bwb57d6e7417fe396@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/31/07, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1.  How does the Palm OS work with Linux?  Is there currently software
> available on Linux for syncing with the Palm?  I'm currently running Ubuntu
> 7.10.

I have a treo 650 and had it syncing pretty well with Kubuntu Dapper.
Then one day it stopped working. I'm still on Dapper and have not
spent any time trying to get it working again.

So yes it does work, but it's not always perfect.

As a side note, I was also able to connect via bluetooth to my Linux
laptop and could access the web on my phone via a ppp link with my
laptop. That may not be very useful, but it is possible and
demonstrates that the bluetooth works.

Eric


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 31 12:57:42 2007
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:57:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Smartphones
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020710310848i1142b30ei9c87979ce05ccb0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <JHEAJICPPADJEPOKEGDGIEPBCIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Zbikowski
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:49 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Smartphones
>
>

> What you don't get with Sprint is the ability to use your phone as a
> modem unless you pay extra every month to enable that feature, even
> though there is no real difference between the standard Vision service
> and Phone as Modem service, but if you're not looking to get your
> laptop access to the net through your phone you shouldn't have an
> issue.

Not quite true.  True that Sprint doesn't support it through phones.
However, that same broadband modem data rate as the extra cost ($40/mo last
I checked) is available, just not supported or discussed or "allowed" by
Sprint.  The 3G Vision service that gives web access has always had a
loophole that permits modem use as if the modem is doing Vision web access
and the minutes are not charged or recorded (ie, free 24/7) with the Vision
option for the phone.  Mine is a bit tricky to set up, but works fine.  I
got a card that has both voice and data through a PCMCIA slot but Sprint
would only allow the voice at a minumum of $0.40/min even though I was
already a long-term subscriber, and that made the extra $40/mo for what
comes with a phone contract truly silly and quite annoying.  This has been
discussed here before.  Several here have used this modem connection.
Sprint threatens that they may back-charge someday as discouragement.

I think Nate was the first to alert us to this 3G service maybe 6 years ago,
but I think he switched carriers long ago.  I had been using the old cheap
1G 14.4KB before that when traveling and before wifi hotspots were
commonplace, so my changeover and upgrade was almost free.  There may be
better (faster, not cheaper) services today, but for my occasional data
needs, good phone service when travelling, and because I get a corporate
discount, Sprint suits me fine.  Besides, my old Samsung I-330 3G smartphone
only cost $15 on ebay, so every aspect of Sprint is very economical for me
and "it ain't broke".


Chuck



From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Wed Oct 31 23:20:26 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:20:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Adobe Flash Player
In-Reply-To: <1DFA928547E9498CB059C93D92781ABC@JohnnyPC>
References: <1DFA928547E9498CB059C93D92781ABC@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <53706.192.168.0.7.1193890826.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>


Danny wrote:
> I still need detailed instructions on how to install flash player for
> Fedora 7. Listed below is a bunch of garbage I do not understand & some
> of the more knowledgeable people do not understand. I have tried all 3
> options on a certain web page and all three I can't understand.  I have
> it in the archive manager but can't figure out how to install it. It's
> somewhat like WinZip but not. Please advise.

It's quite simple since adobe maintains a yum repository.  The first step
is add it to your yum repos:

rpm -ihv \
http://linuxdownload.adobe.com/adobe-release/adobe-release-i386-1.0-1.noarch.rpm

then install it via yum:
yum install flash-plugin

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com