From jimdscott at gmail.com  Sat Sep  1 09:58:37 2007
From: jimdscott at gmail.com (Jim Scott)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:58:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Options after removing libstdc++.so.6 by mistake
Message-ID: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>

I recently upgraded to Fedora 7. I was cleaning up some stale Fedora Core 7
packages. I made the mistake of removing libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6 because I
was planning to install libstdc++-4.1.2-12.fc7. Of course, now I can't run
yum or rpm to install the new package because both applications depend on
libstdc++.so.6, which is no longer installed.

Are there any options to correct this? I'm trying to build gcc from source
now, which I think would fix the problem. I can't reinstall Fedora 7 from
the DVD (the DVD passes the media check, but the DVD hangs at the start of
the install process). Thanks for any suggestions.
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From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Sat Sep  1 11:14:49 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:14:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Options after removing libstdc++.so.6 by mistake
In-Reply-To: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23800.192.168.0.7.1188663289.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>


Jim Scott wrote:
> I recently upgraded to Fedora 7. I was cleaning up some stale Fedora Core
> 7
> packages. I made the mistake of removing libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6 because I
> was planning to install libstdc++-4.1.2-12.fc7. Of course, now I can't run
> yum or rpm to install the new package because both applications depend on
> libstdc++.so.6, which is no longer installed.

if you have another box handy you can ssh the missing
/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6* to the box and then run yum.


-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com


From thecubic at thecubic.net  Sat Sep  1 13:54:02 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:54:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Options after removing libstdc++.so.6 by mistake
In-Reply-To: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200709011354.02903.thecubic@thecubic.net>

That RPM is at (i'm assuming i386 here): 
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.rpm

so do:

curl <that URL> | rpm2cpio - > /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
cd /
cpio -iv < /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
rpm -ivh <that URL>

that will short-circuit the RPM's files on to the filesystem, and then follow 
that up with installing the RPM on top (you may need --force options).

After that's done, you can try doing a yum upgrade (it's pretty easy) if you 
have the bandwidth.  You will end up with an updated F7 system at the end.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumUpgradeFaq

-Dave

On Saturday 01 September 2007 09:58:37 am Jim Scott wrote:
> I recently upgraded to Fedora 7. I was cleaning up some stale Fedora Core 7
> packages. I made the mistake of removing libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6 because I
> was planning to install libstdc++-4.1.2-12.fc7. Of course, now I can't run
> yum or rpm to install the new package because both applications depend on
> libstdc++.so.6, which is no longer installed.
>
> Are there any options to correct this? I'm trying to build gcc from source
> now, which I think would fix the problem. I can't reinstall Fedora 7 from
> the DVD (the DVD passes the media check, but the DVD hangs at the start of
> the install process). Thanks for any suggestions.




From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Sat Sep  1 14:07:38 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:07:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Options after removing libstdc++.so.6 by mistake
In-Reply-To: <200709011354.02903.thecubic@thecubic.net>
References: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709011354.02903.thecubic@thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <17308.192.168.0.7.1188673658.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>


Dave Carlson wrote:
> That RPM is at (i'm assuming i386 here):
> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.rpm
>
> so do:
>
> curl <that URL> | rpm2cpio - > /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
> cd /
> cpio -iv < /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
> rpm -ivh <that URL>

That won't help him since anything that depends on librpm depends on
libstdc++.so

# ldd /usr/bin/rpm2cpio
<snip>
        libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0x001ab000)

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com


From jimdscott at gmail.com  Sat Sep  1 16:07:56 2007
From: jimdscott at gmail.com (Jim Scott)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:07:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Options after removing libstdc++.so.6 by mistake
In-Reply-To: <17308.192.168.0.7.1188673658.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>
References: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709011354.02903.thecubic@thecubic.net>
	<17308.192.168.0.7.1188673658.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>
Message-ID: <c2c8c3a0709011407m74178e6ai81d56c7d526886ce@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/1/07, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dave Carlson wrote:
> > That RPM is at (i'm assuming i386 here):
> >
> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.rpm
> >
> > so do:
> >
> > curl <that URL> | rpm2cpio - > /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
> > cd /
> > cpio -iv < /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
> > rpm -ivh <that URL>
>
> That won't help him since anything that depends on librpm depends on
> libstdc++.so
>
> # ldd /usr/bin/rpm2cpio
> <snip>
>         libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0x001ab000)
>
> --
> Kathryn
> http://womensfooty.com
>
>
Kathryn's right, I couldn't do anything with rpm. I forgot that my other
machine is i686 while this machine is x86_64, so the library was not
compatible. I downloaded the gcc source, compiled and installed that. That
didn't work when I installed it to /usr/local/lib. I recomposed and
installed to /usr/lib which fixed the problem. Thanks again for the
suggestions.
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From jima at beer.tclug.org  Sat Sep  1 22:27:45 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 22:27:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Options after removing libstdc++.so.6 by mistake
In-Reply-To: <200709011354.02903.thecubic@thecubic.net>
References: <c2c8c3a0709010758h171a3eb2id9d37cf327e4e42f@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709011354.02903.thecubic@thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709012203020.31973@beer.tclug.org>

On Sat, 1 Sep 2007, Dave Carlson wrote:
> That RPM is at (i'm assuming i386 here):
> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/updates/6/i386/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.rpm
>
> so do:
>
> curl <that URL> | rpm2cpio - > /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
> cd /
> cpio -iv < /tmp/libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio
> rpm -ivh <that URL>

  For future reference (and Google fodder), run the curl/rpm2cpio on a 
working Fedora/something-with-rpm2cpio system, scp/whatever the 
libstdc++-4.1.2-13.fc6.i386.cpio file over to the b0rk3d system, run the 
cpio command there.  Should work.  (Yes, I know this has already been 
resolved, but still...)

  Jim: you used the --nodeps rpm flag, didn't you?  Tsk, tsk.  We made fun 
of ESR when he did that (and then blamed us!).  Think twice before 
invoking that flag; there's usually a reason for the dependency. :-)
  (FYI, the better rpm hammer to use would be something like: `rpm -Uvh 
--oldpackage libstdc++-4.1.2-12.i386.rpm`.  Too late now, I know, but 
again, future reference...)

  This did involve a very real bug (BZ#251035), and there were a corrected 
set of RPMs in updates-testing (4.1.2-18.fc7) as of Monday, but they thus 
far haven't been pushed to updates-released.  I'll install them on my box 
and give the maintainer some feedback so they can hopefully get pushed.

      Jima


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Sep  1 23:31:12 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 23:31:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200709020431.l824VCQ29489@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: BFG Tech 256 Agp Card

I have a BFG Tech Nvidia 6200 AGP 256mb card.

All of my hardware is migrating over to PCI-E, so I really don't have a use for this card anymore. It's about 4 months old and retails for $165.00. 

Asking $100.00 obo.

Thanks!,

Seller Email address: windbk at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From bdunnette at gmail.com  Tue Sep  4 13:30:38 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:30:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slightly OT: Twin Cities Free Geek?
In-Reply-To: <20070815115935.rt0ra0w2o08oo4cs@mail.dalan.us>
References: <e9cd5840708150937m30fc2ac2u952c98989edd966f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070815115935.rt0ra0w2o08oo4cs@mail.dalan.us>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840709041130g6bcc8d15r3ef1c3f9cdc492dc@mail.gmail.com>

Just as a follow-up, Richard Seymour (build coordinator for Free Geek
Portland) will be doing a little Q&A session this coming Sunday -- here's
the info:

Sunday, Sept. 9, 7pm
Arise! Books
2441 Lyndale Ave. S.
Mpls, MN 55405

-Brian D.

On 8/15/07, canito at dalan.us <canito at dalan.us> wrote:

> Brian, List:
>
> I have always thought of doing something very similar. There was a
> building up for sale next to my school and I thought how cool it would
> be to have something in the realm of a community technology center!
>
> I am up for it, have extra equipment to use and would donate my time!
>
> Am not sure how well this flows with people since we're all busy
> adults. Sure we have very smart people with experience business
> experience!
>
> My .02 cents
>
> David
>
> Now that I remember. There is a gentleman who frequents TCLUG who
> builds computers with Linux and sells them in a thrift store were he
> volunteers.
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Brian Dunnette <bdunnette at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hey all-
> >
> > I've been thinking about starting something similar to Portland's Free
> Geek
> > (http://freegeek.org/) here in the Twin Cities, and was wondering what
> you,
> > the local Linux cognoscenti, thought of the idea --
> suggestions?  Obvious
> > reasons it won't work?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian Dunnette
> > bdunnette at gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
>
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From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 11:48:42 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:48:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Jon Udell (Was Re: searchable email archiving)
Message-ID: <914f813c0709050948u6e7c241ex9917b3fd6bdff00@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/24/07, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> ... Funny -- the guy I quoted last night who had written about Zo?
> also wrote this article after he dumped Zo? in favor of Lucene 6 months
> later:
>
> http://webservices.xml.com/pub/a/ws/2003/05/13/email.html
>
> Mike

That's Jon Udell. He does a few podcasts, most of which are pretty
good. Further, he *gasp* works for MS. But he's actually pretty fair
and balanced in terms of tech talk. And I don't mean that in the
FoxNews sense...

http://blog.jonudell.net/

From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Sep  5 13:12:47 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:12:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement - Sept 5 with Amazon.com
In-Reply-To: <200709051220.39309.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <4c4ad4df0704200525t21568452m6dfb8503e3221bcf@mail.gmail.com>
	<200708271146.36997.Jeremy@lizakowski.com>
	<200709051220.39309.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200709051312.47308.tclug@lizakowski.com>


The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!

Virtualization was voted the most popular topic at the monthly meetings.  In 
response, we found a speaker that has an interesting take on virtualization: 
Mike Culver from Amazon.com will be visiting TCLUG to give a presentation on 
their scalable computing platform and web services!  

This includes a service called EC2.  EC2 allows you to upload a special Linux 
image (based on Xen I believe), and run it on a cluster.  You can rent the 
cluster by the boxen-hour, and the servers can dynamically allocate machines 
themselves (e.g. a webserver cluster can increase it's size to adapt to 
traffic).  

The presentation will also cover a storage clustering service, the Amazon 
Mechanical Turk, and other topics.  It should be very interesting.  The 
description below has full details.

 Date: Wed, Sept 5th
 Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
 University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
 200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455

 Topics:
        Intro 
        Main presentation
                Amazon Web Services (scalable computing)
                Mike Culver, Web Services Evangelist, Amazon.com (AWS)
        General Q&A and discussion
                As time may permit
        Adjourn to local restaurant or coffee shop

Links:
        aws.amazon.com/ec2
        aws.amazon.com/s3
        aws.amazon.com/mturk

-----------    Detailed Description   ------------
What's possible in a post Web 2.0 world? Innovation continues at a 
mind-bending pace, and this presentation will showcase some thought-provoking 
new directions that Web Services are headed in. The presentation will provide 
an overview of Amazon Web Services, including a Web Service named Mechanical 
Turk that allows computers to make requests of people, an online storage 
service, a Virtual Server service, and more.  There will also be a demo 
showing how to set up the virtual server. But mostly this will be an 
opportunity to have a discussion about innovation and entrepreneurial tools.

Amazon spent ten years developing a world-class technology and content 
platform that powers Amazon web sites for millions of customers every day. 
Most people think "Amazon.com" when they hear the word; however developers 
are excited to learn that there is a separate technology arm of the company, 
known as Amazon Web Services or AWS. Using AWS, developers can build software 
applications leveraging the same robust, scalable, and reliable technology 
that powers Amazon's retail business. AWS has now launched ten services with 
open APIs for developers to build applications, with the result that over 
265,000 developers have registered on Amazon's developer site to create 
applications based on these services..

About the Speaker
Mike Culver joined the Developer Relations Group of Amazon Web Services in 
May, 2006. Mike brings with him fifteen years of technology leadership 
experience, including at companies such as Microsoft. In addition Mr. Culver 
has a strong background running an IT organization, with over a decade of 
experience in the Electrical Wholesale Distribution industry. As a Web 
Services Evangelist at Amazon, he helps developers take advantage of 
disruptive technologies that are going to change the way we think about 
computer applications, and the way that businesses compete.


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 14:31:53 2007
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 12:31:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] changing CMD arguments in the ps command
Message-ID: <822411.66987.qm@web53812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

This is more of a generic UNIX question, but I thing Linux is the same here.

We have a script that starts a C wrapper (tanuki) which starts a java command to start one of our daemons.  We've had a complaint that the ps command shows the java command options which is nothing like the original batch file parameters, confusing people who want to kill it.

The man page for ps suggests that a program can change what ps sees as it's arguments.  Anyone know how to do this?


--- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis

       
---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Sep  5 15:16:38 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:16:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] changing CMD arguments in the ps command
In-Reply-To: <822411.66987.qm@web53812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <822411.66987.qm@web53812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070905201638.GV26787@iucha.net>

On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 12:31:53PM -0700, Wayne Johnson wrote:
> We have a script that starts a C wrapper (tanuki) which starts a java command to start one of our daemons.  We've had a complaint that the ps command shows the java command options which is nothing like the original batch file parameters, confusing people who want to kill it.
> 
> The man page for ps suggests that a program can change what ps sees as it's arguments.  Anyone know how to do this?

http://www.netsplit.com/blog/articles/2007/01/10/hiding-arguments-from-ps

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From jack at jacku.com  Wed Sep  5 23:35:28 2007
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:35:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Jon Udell (Was Re: searchable email archiving)
In-Reply-To: <914f813c0709050948u6e7c241ex9917b3fd6bdff00@mail.gmail.com>
References: <914f813c0709050948u6e7c241ex9917b3fd6bdff00@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200709052335.28928.jack@jacku.com>

On Wednesday 05 September 2007 11:48 am, John T. Hoffoss wrote:
> On 8/24/07, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> > ... Funny -- the guy I quoted last night who had written about Zo?
> > also wrote this article after he dumped Zo? in favor of Lucene 6 months
> > later:
> >
> > http://webservices.xml.com/pub/a/ws/2003/05/13/email.html
> >
> > Mike
>
> That's Jon Udell. He does a few podcasts, most of which are pretty
> good. Further, he *gasp* works for MS. But he's actually pretty fair
> and balanced in terms of tech talk. And I don't mean that in the
> FoxNews sense...
>
> http://blog.jonudell.net/

Another note about Udell, he was practically the "last manstanding" at Byte 
after all those years. At least he was one of the last people associated with 
it that was worth reading. He is also the author of, the now dated book, 
Practical Internet Groupware.

-- 
Jack Ungerleider
jack at jacku.com
http://www.jacku.com


From nate at refried.org  Thu Sep  6 07:40:19 2007
From: nate at refried.org (Nate Straz)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 07:40:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] changing CMD arguments in the ps command
In-Reply-To: <822411.66987.qm@web53812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <822411.66987.qm@web53812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070906124019.GA23441@refried.org>

On Wed, Sep 05, 2007 at 12:31:53PM -0700, Wayne Johnson wrote:
> We have a script that starts a C wrapper (tanuki) which starts a java
> command to start one of our daemons.  We've had a complaint that the
> ps command shows the java command options which is nothing like the
> original batch file parameters, confusing people who want to kill it.

Then why don't you add an option to the script to stop the daemon?  Then
the people won't need to look at the output of ps and be confused?

Nate


From j at packetgod.com  Thu Sep  6 14:39:03 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:39:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement - Sept 5 with Amazon.com
In-Reply-To: <200709051312.47308.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <4c4ad4df0704200525t21568452m6dfb8503e3221bcf@mail.gmail.com>	<200708271146.36997.Jeremy@lizakowski.com>	<200709051220.39309.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<200709051312.47308.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <46E05757.8070005@packetgod.com>

Say I though I heard something about Mike putting that presentation up 
on the web, perhaps he just stores it privately on S3 but if its public 
can you provide a link?

Great presentation by the way, a little "markety" but all in all pretty 
interesting stuff.

--j

Jeremy wrote:
> The next TCLUG meeting is tonight!
>
> Virtualization was voted the most popular topic at the monthly meetings.  In 
> response, we found a speaker that has an interesting take on virtualization: 
> Mike Culver from Amazon.com will be visiting TCLUG to give a presentation on 
> their scalable computing platform and web services!  
>
> This includes a service called EC2.  EC2 allows you to upload a special Linux 
> image (based on Xen I believe), and run it on a cluster.  You can rent the 
> cluster by the boxen-hour, and the servers can dynamically allocate machines 
> themselves (e.g. a webserver cluster can increase it's size to adapt to 
> traffic).  
>
> The presentation will also cover a storage clustering service, the Amazon 
> Mechanical Turk, and other topics.  It should be very interesting.  The 
> description below has full details.
>
>  Date: Wed, Sept 5th
>  Time: 6:30 - 8:00 pm
>  University of Minnesota Minneapolis campus, EE/CSci Building , Room: 3-210
>  200 Union St SE, Minneapolis 55455
>
>  Topics:
>         Intro 
>         Main presentation
>                 Amazon Web Services (scalable computing)
>                 Mike Culver, Web Services Evangelist, Amazon.com (AWS)
>         General Q&A and discussion
>                 As time may permit
>         Adjourn to local restaurant or coffee shop
>
> Links:
>         aws.amazon.com/ec2
>         aws.amazon.com/s3
>         aws.amazon.com/mturk
>
> -----------    Detailed Description   ------------
> What's possible in a post Web 2.0 world? Innovation continues at a 
> mind-bending pace, and this presentation will showcase some thought-provoking 
> new directions that Web Services are headed in. The presentation will provide 
> an overview of Amazon Web Services, including a Web Service named Mechanical 
> Turk that allows computers to make requests of people, an online storage 
> service, a Virtual Server service, and more.  There will also be a demo 
> showing how to set up the virtual server. But mostly this will be an 
> opportunity to have a discussion about innovation and entrepreneurial tools.
>
> Amazon spent ten years developing a world-class technology and content 
> platform that powers Amazon web sites for millions of customers every day. 
> Most people think "Amazon.com" when they hear the word; however developers 
> are excited to learn that there is a separate technology arm of the company, 
> known as Amazon Web Services or AWS. Using AWS, developers can build software 
> applications leveraging the same robust, scalable, and reliable technology 
> that powers Amazon's retail business. AWS has now launched ten services with 
> open APIs for developers to build applications, with the result that over 
> 265,000 developers have registered on Amazon's developer site to create 
> applications based on these services..
>
> About the Speaker
> Mike Culver joined the Developer Relations Group of Amazon Web Services in 
> May, 2006. Mike brings with him fifteen years of technology leadership 
> experience, including at companies such as Microsoft. In addition Mr. Culver 
> has a strong background running an IT organization, with over a decade of 
> experience in the Electrical Wholesale Distribution industry. As a Web 
> Services Evangelist at Amazon, he helps developers take advantage of 
> disruptive technologies that are going to change the way we think about 
> computer applications, and the way that businesses compete.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


From autarch at urth.org  Thu Sep  6 15:01:18 2007
From: autarch at urth.org (Dave Rolsky)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 15:01:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Frozen Perl 2008 Workshop Announcement & Call for
	Speakers
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.999.0709061500420.21948@urth.org>

Hi, LUGgers,

The Minneapolis Perl Mongers are organizing a one-day Perl workshop in 
Minneapolis on February 16, 2008, and I hope some of you can attend. We're 
also working on a hackathon the day after and an Intro to Perl class 
taught by brian d foy of Stonehenge Consulting on the day before. These 
extras will be announced on our website once we have more details. Our 
site is at http://www.frozen-perl.org/

We've also opened our call for speakers, and we'd love to have your 
submissions. You can view the CFS at 
http://www.frozen-perl.org/mpw2008/cfs.html


Thanks,

Dave Rolsky
Minneapolis Perl Mongers


From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Sat Sep  8 22:01:26 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 22:01:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>

-Yes, I want to be able to at least read my gmail at work.  Fire me!
-No, I can't get SSH or POP connections either.
-I have hosted web space that I *can* access.
-I don't care what it looks like.   If I can get the text, I'm happy.

Anybody have/had this problem?  Solved it?
Having not even tried, I guess I'd go in this direction:
(at home) Use gmail's POP3 download and cron and sftp to append everything
into a static file at my external site.
That's all I got.  The inherent problems are becoming obvious as I type
this..
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From florin at iucha.net  Sat Sep  8 23:29:29 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 23:29:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070909042929.GQ26787@iucha.net>

On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 10:01:26PM -0500, Bob Hartmann wrote:
> -Yes, I want to be able to at least read my gmail at work.  Fire me!
> -No, I can't get SSH or POP connections either.

Have you tried https://mail.google.com/ ?  If you access it via https,
it keeps running as https.

b) Have you run an SSH server on port 443?  It seems not to be as
filtered as 22 ;)

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From tclug at natecarlson.com  Sat Sep  8 23:34:31 2007
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 23:34:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709082333500.19909@iron.msp.technicality.org>

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007, Bob Hartmann wrote:
> -Yes, I want to be able to at least read my gmail at work.  Fire me!
> -No, I can't get SSH or POP connections either.
> -I have hosted web space that I *can* access.
> -I don't care what it looks like.   If I can get the text, I'm happy.

Set this up in your web space:

http://jmarshall.com/tools/cgiproxy/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
|       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From slushpupie at gmail.com  Sun Sep  9 10:16:58 2007
From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 10:16:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709082333500.19909@iron.msp.technicality.org>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0709082333500.19909@iron.msp.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <ace41e70709090816l6e742c52l4baa695a9b86e50b@mail.gmail.com>

If you decide to run cgiproxy, make sure you have it locked down well.
 There are a bunch of web sipiders out there looking for cgiproxy and
will start using your proxy for stuff.



On 9/8/07, Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2007, Bob Hartmann wrote:
> > -Yes, I want to be able to at least read my gmail at work.  Fire me!
> > -No, I can't get SSH or POP connections either.
> > -I have hosted web space that I *can* access.
> > -I don't care what it looks like.   If I can get the text, I'm happy.
>
> Set this up in your web space:
>
> http://jmarshall.com/tools/cgiproxy/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/


From bunjee at charter.net  Sun Sep  9 21:09:25 2007
From: bunjee at charter.net (Danny)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:09:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sabayon
Message-ID: <FB3655B23AC943EA821E75886DC12767@JohnnyPC>

Know anything about Sabayon Linux? Would like to download it and try it out.
How and what do I do? Had a friend use a ?live-cd? and show me a little bit
about it. I have a Radeon X1950 Pro video card and the guy was complaining
about the card not doing this and not doing that. I had no clue what he was
talking about. Please advise.

 

Danny J.


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.12/997 - Release Date: 9/9/2007
10:17 AM
 
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From benjamin.holmberg at gmail.com  Sun Sep  9 21:24:18 2007
From: benjamin.holmberg at gmail.com (Benjamin Holmberg)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:24:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <ace41e70709090816l6e742c52l4baa695a9b86e50b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0709082333500.19909@iron.msp.technicality.org>
	<ace41e70709090816l6e742c52l4baa695a9b86e50b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bb9c4f0f0709091924p5f1ab4few139da7da3d2fa5ce@mail.gmail.com>

Why not just forward all inbound messages to another email service you can
access via web interface at work via a filter?

Good luck... Work proxies aren't fun, they hamper my productivity more than
enhance it.

On 9/9/07, slushpupie at gmail.com <slushpupie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you decide to run cgiproxy, make sure you have it locked down well.
> There are a bunch of web sipiders out there looking for cgiproxy and
> will start using your proxy for stuff.
>
>
>
> On 9/8/07, Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 8 Sep 2007, Bob Hartmann wrote:
> > > -Yes, I want to be able to at least read my gmail at work.  Fire me!
> > > -No, I can't get SSH or POP connections either.
> > > -I have hosted web space that I *can* access.
> > > -I don't care what it looks like.   If I can get the text, I'm happy.
> >
> > Set this up in your web space:
> >
> > http://jmarshall.com/tools/cgiproxy/
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > | nate carlson | natecars at natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com |
> > |       depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981            |
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
> --
> Jay Kline
> http://www.slushpupie.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 19:36:23 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:36:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]  ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <1189393842.3247.76.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189393842.3247.76.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90709101736i68bec0ccw3e6a11dbe83c6502@mail.gmail.com>

These are all really neat ideas, and I appreciate the input.  Hope it helps
someone else!
Grok this:  I can't even access some of our web hosting customers' sites
without going through a special workaround Citrix session.  (no gmail there,
either) They're probably spying on me here too, so I'd better shut up.  :-`
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From srcfoo at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 19:59:48 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:59:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90709101736i68bec0ccw3e6a11dbe83c6502@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189393842.3247.76.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<b8fc4dd90709101736i68bec0ccw3e6a11dbe83c6502@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30709101759j59d5c73bm11815007f1fab6b8@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, must feel great knowing someone is looking out for you like that.
I'm sure your productivity is through the the roof as a result. ;)

On 9/10/07, Bob Hartmann <bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
> These are all really neat ideas, and I appreciate the input.  Hope it helps
> someone else!
> Grok this:  I can't even access some of our web hosting customers' sites
> without going through a special workaround Citrix session.  (no gmail there,
> either) They're probably spying on me here too, so I'd better shut up.  :-`
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 20:16:45 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:16:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30709101759j59d5c73bm11815007f1fab6b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189393842.3247.76.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<b8fc4dd90709101736i68bec0ccw3e6a11dbe83c6502@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30709101759j59d5c73bm11815007f1fab6b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90709101816n185404f6i3071dfd400c8b839@mail.gmail.com>

It's actually a pretty cool place.  I've got my original idea working
already.  Just need to schedule it for every hour or something and I'm good.
I don't need to keep my home system up, just forward from gmail to my other
place and
      cat mail/mysite.org/bob/new/* >>public_html/digest/digest.html
where ./public_html/digest is protected by .htaccess.  No biggie


On 9/10/07, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow, must feel great knowing someone is looking out for you like that.
> I'm sure your productivity is through the the roof as a result. ;)
>
> On 9/10/07, Bob Hartmann <bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
> > These are all really neat ideas, and I appreciate the input.  Hope it
> helps
> > someone else!
> > Grok this:  I can't even access some of our web hosting customers' sites
> > without going through a special workaround Citrix session.  (no gmail
> there,
> > either) They're probably spying on me here too, so I'd better shut
> up.  :-`
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
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From samir.list at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 20:20:32 2007
From: samir.list at gmail.com (Samir Faci)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:20:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sabayon
In-Reply-To: <FB3655B23AC943EA821E75886DC12767@JohnnyPC>
References: <FB3655B23AC943EA821E75886DC12767@JohnnyPC>
Message-ID: <1e6142750709101820s5d5ceaf9s4171f0584267275b@mail.gmail.com>

is this spam, or is there any particular reason the font Danny is using is
bigger then my head?

--
Samir

On 9/9/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  *Know anything about Sabayon Linux? Would like to download it and try it
> out. How and what do I do? Had a friend use a "live-cd" and show me a little
> bit about it. I have a Radeon X1950 Pro video card and the guy was
> complaining about the card not doing this and not doing that. I had no clue
> what he was talking about. Please advise.*
>
> * *
>
> *Danny J.*
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.12/997 - Release Date: 9/9/2007
> 10:17 AM
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From admin at lctn.org  Mon Sep 10 20:37:53 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:37:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] squid ncsa_auth bypass
Message-ID: <40795.66.103.176.15.1189474673.squirrel@lctn.org>

I have a squid box using ncsa_auth, but need to bypass it so our Pcs can
reach a public IP on our wan, for anti-virus updates. I have tried "dst",
and "dstdomain", but cannot do the updates, unless I disable ncsa_auth.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From florin at iucha.net  Mon Sep 10 22:01:49 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:01:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sabayon
In-Reply-To: <1e6142750709101820s5d5ceaf9s4171f0584267275b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FB3655B23AC943EA821E75886DC12767@JohnnyPC>
	<1e6142750709101820s5d5ceaf9s4171f0584267275b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070911030149.GY26787@iucha.net>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2007 at 08:20:32PM -0500, Samir Faci wrote:
> is this spam, or is there any particular reason the font Danny is using is
> bigger then my head?

Font?  The message did fit nicely on three punch cards...  I can FEDEX
them to you, if you want.

Cheers,
florin

> On 9/9/07, Danny <bunjee at charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >  *Know anything about Sabayon Linux? Would like to download it and try it
> > out. How and what do I do? Had a friend use a "live-cd" and show me a little
> > bit about it. I have a Radeon X1950 Pro video card and the guy was
> > complaining about the card not doing this and not doing that. I had no clue
> > what he was talking about. Please advise.*

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 22:03:28 2007
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:03:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] squid ncsa_auth bypass
In-Reply-To: <40795.66.103.176.15.1189474673.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <40795.66.103.176.15.1189474673.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020709102003n144b54b0i9b5a9c17466ca9ae@mail.gmail.com>

Should be as simple as having the ACL for the update server higher
than the proxy_auth ACL. This is all from memory so no promises at
all... :)

acl update_server dst 192.168.1.50/255.255.255.0 # Software Update Server
acl my_subnet src 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 # Local Subnet
acl admin_computers src 192.168.1.101/255.255.255.0 # Admin computer 1
acl admin_computers src 192.168.1.102/255.255.255.0 # Admin computer 2
acl admin_computers src 192.168.1.103/255.255.255.0 # Admin computer 3

# http_access allow my_subnet
http_access allow update_server # Allow unauthenticated access to the
update server.
http_access allow admin_computerse # Admin computers don't need proxy
authentication.
http_access allow proxy_auth # Allow authenticated proxy users.
http_access deny all # Deny everything else.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue >0;
0 rows returned


From bob.hartmann at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 20:16:54 2007
From: bob.hartmann at gmail.com (Bob Hartmann)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:16:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90709101816n185404f6i3071dfd400c8b839@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189393842.3247.76.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<b8fc4dd90709101736i68bec0ccw3e6a11dbe83c6502@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30709101759j59d5c73bm11815007f1fab6b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90709101816n185404f6i3071dfd400c8b839@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8fc4dd90709111816u2fadaf7ft9b1c1b89e7210392@mail.gmail.com>

Follow-up:
Wow, did that suck.  But, I wanted a cheap hack and I still have one.
Don't use a "live" email address (duh!), and use a .txt file or probably
anything but .html.  It matters.

   #!/bin/bash
   # gmaildigest.sh
   date >>~/public_html/digest/digest.txt
   less ~/mail/mysite.org/bhgmail/new/* >>~/public_html/digest/digest.txt
   rm -f ~/mail/mysite.org/bhgmail/new/*
   less ~/public_html/digest/separator.txt >>
~/public_html/digest/digest.txt

I'm so proud.

On 9/10/07, Bob Hartmann <bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's actually a pretty cool place.  I've got my original idea working
> already.  Just need to schedule it for every hour or something and I'm good.
> I don't need to keep my home system up, just forward from gmail to my
> other place and
>       cat mail/mysite.org/bob/new/* >>public_html/digest/digest.html
> where ./public_html/digest is protected by .htaccess.  No biggie
>
>
> On 9/10/07, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wow, must feel great knowing someone is looking out for you like that.
> > I'm sure your productivity is through the the roof as a result. ;)
> >
> > On 9/10/07, Bob Hartmann < bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > These are all really neat ideas, and I appreciate the input.  Hope it
> > helps
> > > someone else!
> > > Grok this:  I can't even access some of our web hosting customers'
> > sites
> > > without going through a special workaround Citrix session.  (no gmail
> > there,
> > > either) They're probably spying on me here too, so I'd better shut
> > up.  :-`
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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From jhawley at hissingdragon.net  Wed Sep 12 13:36:25 2007
From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:36:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] vmware w2k guest cannot connect to host
Message-ID: <46E831A9.9090400@hissingdragon.net>

Hi.

Been playing with vmware-server (1.0.3-1) on Ubuntu feisty.  The guest 
is Win2K pro (SP4) running in bridged network mode.  It DHCP's its 
address and can connect fine to the Internet and all hosts on my local 
network except to the vmware host itself.

W2k can ping the host and the host can ping it.

W2k does register itself with samba...

root at steelix:src# smbclient -L localhost
Password:
Anonymous login successful
Domain=[DRAGONLAIR] OS=[Unix] Server=[Samba 3.0.24]

        Sharename       Type      Comment
        ---------       ----      -------
        public          Disk      Public Folder
        hplj3200        Printer   HP Laserjet 3200
        IPC$            IPC       IPC Service (steelix server (Samba 
3.0.24))
        Virtual_Printer Printer   PDF Printer
        Lexmark_E320_USB_1 Printer   Lexmark E320 (tattu)
        HP_LaserJet_3200_USB_1 Printer   HP LaserJet 3200
        HP_DESKJET_895C_USB_2 Printer   HP DESKJET 895C
Anonymous login successful
Domain=[DRAGONLAIR] OS=[Unix] Server=[Samba 3.0.24]

        Server               Comment
        ---------            -------
        STEELIX              steelix server (Samba 3.0.24)
        ZUBAT                Dell

        Workgroup            Master
        ---------            -------
        DRAGONLAIR           STEELIX
        VMWARE               PICACHU


If W2k trys to ssh to the host with putty, this is what the host sees:

root at steelix:src# tcpdump host 192.168.10.191
tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode
listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 96 bytes
13:26:59.160734 IP 192.168.10.191.1128 > steelix.hissingdragon.net.ssh: 
S 1440047258:1440047258(0) win 65535 <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackOK>
13:27:04.356071 IP steelix.hissingdragon.net.ssh > 192.168.10.191.1128: 
S 1095796684:1095796684(0) ack 1440047259 win 5840 <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackOK>
13:26:59.162033 IP 192.168.10.191.1128 > steelix.hissingdragon.net.ssh: 
. ack 1 win 65535
13:27:00.135060 IP steelix.hissingdragon.net.ssh > 192.168.10.191.1128: 
P 1:39(38) ack 1 win 5840
13:27:03.135392 IP steelix.hissingdragon.net.ssh > 192.168.10.191.1128: 
P 1:39(38) ack 1 win 5840
13:27:09.135479 IP steelix.hissingdragon.net.ssh > 192.168.10.191.1128: 
P 1:39(38) ack 1 win 5840

6 packets captured
6 packets received by filter
0 packets dropped by kernel

.. so the host (steelix) sees the ssh request and trys to respond, but 
W2k (picachu ..191) never (apparently) gets the reply.  Same thing for 
W2k trying to connect to the apache service on the host.  I first 
noticed the problem when W2k could not find the DRAGONLAIR domain.


Any ideas?  And no, there is no firewalling going on here.


~jh


From j at packetgod.com  Wed Sep 12 13:18:59 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:18:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ideas for getting gmail if it's blocked by proxy?
In-Reply-To: <b8fc4dd90709111816u2fadaf7ft9b1c1b89e7210392@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8fc4dd90709082001s49c22c3fg7b40692a29a83452@mail.gmail.com>
	<1189393842.3247.76.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<b8fc4dd90709101736i68bec0ccw3e6a11dbe83c6502@mail.gmail.com>
	<579c6fd30709101759j59d5c73bm11815007f1fab6b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90709101816n185404f6i3071dfd400c8b839@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8fc4dd90709111816u2fadaf7ft9b1c1b89e7210392@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36106.127.0.0.1.1189621139.squirrel@localhost>

I didn't see stunnel mentioned anywhere, its my main methodology for
getting around proxies as it is completely SSL and can do things like
create a full VPN tunnel back to your home box that you can use for
securely browsing the Internet.  I use it whenever I'm at a coffee shop or
whatever just for the security and privacy.

It also is very proxy aware so if you need to add authentication or
anything you are set.  Plus it gets around proxies that are smart enough
to see that you are just doing SSH on 443 and not actually SSL.

--j

> Follow-up:
> Wow, did that suck.  But, I wanted a cheap hack and I still have one.
> Don't use a "live" email address (duh!), and use a .txt file or probably
> anything but .html.  It matters.
>
>    #!/bin/bash
>    # gmaildigest.sh
>    date >>~/public_html/digest/digest.txt
>    less ~/mail/mysite.org/bhgmail/new/* >>~/public_html/digest/digest.txt
>    rm -f ~/mail/mysite.org/bhgmail/new/*
>    less ~/public_html/digest/separator.txt >>
> ~/public_html/digest/digest.txt
>
> I'm so proud.
>
> On 9/10/07, Bob Hartmann <bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's actually a pretty cool place.  I've got my original idea working
>> already.  Just need to schedule it for every hour or something and I'm
>> good.
>> I don't need to keep my home system up, just forward from gmail to my
>> other place and
>>       cat mail/mysite.org/bob/new/* >>public_html/digest/digest.html
>> where ./public_html/digest is protected by .htaccess.  No biggie
>>
>>
>> On 9/10/07, Eric Peterson <srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Wow, must feel great knowing someone is looking out for you like that.
>> > I'm sure your productivity is through the the roof as a result. ;)
>> >
>> > On 9/10/07, Bob Hartmann < bob.hartmann at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > These are all really neat ideas, and I appreciate the input.  Hope
>> it
>> > helps
>> > > someone else!
>> > > Grok this:  I can't even access some of our web hosting customers'
>> > sites
>> > > without going through a special workaround Citrix session.  (no
>> gmail
>> > there,
>> > > either) They're probably spying on me here too, so I'd better shut
>> > up.  :-`
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



From fholson at cohousing.org  Fri Sep 14 16:02:02 2007
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>

Today I installed some 80 accumulated upgrades to my Ubuntu 6.06 system
with no apparent problem til I rebooted as it instructed me.  It did not
get very far... Below is the hand transcribed but pretty close listing of
the error messages.  Note that a few weeks ago at the install fest we
increased the size of the partition the system is in by moving all the
files to an external hard disk , making a new larger partition and moving
the files back.  After some tweaking that has been running fine.
Anyone recognise what's going on here?

Thanks ,  Fred

last messages displayed while booting Ubuntu 6.06 system before stopping:


modprobe -l -t <dirname> [-a <modulename...]
mount:
Cannot read /etc/fstab: No such file or directory
mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed No such file or
directory
mount: Mounting /sys on /root/sys failed No such file or directory
mount: Mounting /proc on /root/proc failed No such file or directory
Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init


Busybox v1.01 (Debian 1:1.01-4ubuntu3) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for list of built-in commands.

/bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off

#

--
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org



From srcfoo at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 16:31:47 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:31:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30709141431l578b4455g56f48f723a5a3409@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/14/07, Fred H Olson <fholson at cohousing.org> wrote:
> Anyone recognise what's going on here?

It may be a kernel problem. If  you haven't already tried it, boot the
previous version of the kernel when you get to the Grub boot screen.

Good luck!
Eric


From fholson at cohousing.org  Sat Sep 15 12:12:01 2007
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30709141431l578b4455g56f48f723a5a3409@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
	<579c6fd30709141431l578b4455g56f48f723a5a3409@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709151002500.8996@farnsworth.tigertech.net>

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007, Eric Peterson wrote:

> On 9/14/07, Fred H Olson <fholson at cohousing.org> wrote:
> > Anyone recognise what's going on here?
>
> It may be a kernel problem. If  you haven't already tried it, boot the
> previous version of the kernel when you get to the Grub boot screen.
>
> Good luck!
> Eric
>
I selected several older kernels and it does the same thing.
It runs with an old Ubuntu 5.10 live cd but I have not figured out how to
to find the harddrive - not sure if they are not there or I dont know
how to find them...  How do I look?  I tried some mount commands and
looked around /proc but could have done it wrong.
Would it be worth getting a newer live cd?

Fred (using a very awkward access on my son's old computer...)

--
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Sat Sep 15 19:31:15 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:31:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709151002500.8996@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
	<579c6fd30709141431l578b4455g56f48f723a5a3409@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0709151002500.8996@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <200709151931.15811.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> It runs with an old Ubuntu 5.10 live cd but I have not figured out how to
> to find the harddrive - not sure if they are not there or I dont know
> how to find them...  How do I look?  I tried some mount commands and

To list the partitions, log in as root, or use sudo to run:
	sfdisk -l   (that's a lowercase L)

Then, you can make a directory somewhere (such as /mnt) to act as a 
mountpoint, and mount the partition on that directory.

Jeremy


On Saturday 15 September 2007 12:12:01 pm Fred H Olson wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007, Eric Peterson wrote:
> > On 9/14/07, Fred H Olson <fholson at cohousing.org> wrote:
> > > Anyone recognise what's going on here?
> >
> > It may be a kernel problem. If  you haven't already tried it, boot the
> > previous version of the kernel when you get to the Grub boot screen.
> >
> > Good luck!
> > Eric
>
> I selected several older kernels and it does the same thing.
> It runs with an old Ubuntu 5.10 live cd but I have not figured out how to
> to find the harddrive - not sure if they are not there or I dont know
> how to find them...  How do I look?  I tried some mount commands and
> looked around /proc but could have done it wrong.
> Would it be worth getting a newer live cd?
>
> Fred (using a very awkward access on my son's old computer...)
>
> --
> Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
> Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
> http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
> 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From strayf at freeshell.org  Sun Sep 16 20:27:48 2007
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:27:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Can't start iceape from inside icedove
Message-ID: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>

Not a critical problem or anything, but if anyone knows offhand...

On one of my computers (running Debian testing) I read mail using
icedove. However, clicking a web link in an email fails to open the page
with iceape.

In icedove's about:config there's the line
"network.protocol-handler.app.http	default	string	x-www-browser"

x-www-browser is setup like so:
"lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 2004-11-14 11:12 /usr/bin/x-www-browser -> \
/etc/alternatives/x-www-browser
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 2007-03-17 11:57 \
/etc/alternatives/x-www-browser -> /usr/bin/iceape"

and if I watch processes in a terminal using something like
"while true ; do ps -f | egrep '(iceape|www)' | grep -v grep ; done"

I can see x-www-browser start, then /usr/lib/iceape/iceape-bin starts,
it runs for a couple seconds, then dies without opening any windows.

If I click a link in a terminal window the same startup routine happens,
but iceape starts successfully.

Weirdness. Thanks for any suggestions.

-Steve



From florin at iucha.net  Sat Sep 15 22:23:40 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:23:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709151002500.8996@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
	<579c6fd30709141431l578b4455g56f48f723a5a3409@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0709151002500.8996@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <20070916032340.GN12424@iucha.net>

On Sat, Sep 15, 2007 at 10:12:01AM -0700, Fred H Olson wrote:
> I selected several older kernels and it does the same thing.
> It runs with an old Ubuntu 5.10 live cd but I have not figured out how to
> to find the harddrive - not sure if they are not there or I dont know
> how to find them...  How do I look?  I tried some mount commands and
> looked around /proc but could have done it wrong.

Fred,

Do a 'fdisk -l /dev/sda' or 'fdisk -l /dev/hda' - this should tell you
which way to fsck and mount it.  Then, run a fsck on the root
partition (use -f to force it to check) and after it completes
succesfully, try mounting it and check the contents /etc/fstab.

> Would it be worth getting a newer live cd?

Yes, try a newer Ubuntu live CD.  I'm not sure they have "Repair my
mess" button, but it should find and mount your partitions.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From tclug at lizakowski.com  Sat Sep 15 16:55:29 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:55:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <200709151655.29586.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Have you rebooted since the installfest?  

A couple things I've seen before:
	1) If you make changes to the kernel, or recompile it, there can be problems 
with updates via packaging systems.  
	2) If you wait too long to reboot after an upgrade, especially if there are 
multiple kernel upgrades in the meantime, you can have kernel images that 
don't boot.

As Eric suggested, booting with an older kernel is a good test.  Otherwise, 
try a rescue disk and verify that you can access the files.  If the files 
really aren't there, then you might need to check the SMART data for the 
drive.

Jeremy



On Friday 14 September 2007 4:02:02 pm Fred H Olson wrote:
> Today I installed some 80 accumulated upgrades to my Ubuntu 6.06 system
> with no apparent problem til I rebooted as it instructed me.  It did not
> get very far... Below is the hand transcribed but pretty close listing of
> the error messages.  Note that a few weeks ago at the install fest we
> increased the size of the partition the system is in by moving all the
> files to an external hard disk , making a new larger partition and moving
> the files back.  After some tweaking that has been running fine.
> Anyone recognise what's going on here?
>
> Thanks ,  Fred
>
> last messages displayed while booting Ubuntu 6.06 system before stopping:
>
>
> modprobe -l -t <dirname> [-a <modulename...]
> mount:
> Cannot read /etc/fstab: No such file or directory
> mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed No such file or
> directory
> mount: Mounting /sys on /root/sys failed No such file or directory
> mount: Mounting /proc on /root/proc failed No such file or directory
> Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init
>
>
> Busybox v1.01 (Debian 1:1.01-4ubuntu3) Built-in shell (ash)
> Enter 'help' for list of built-in commands.
>
> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
>
> #
>
> --
> Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
> Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
> http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
> 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From fholson at cohousing.org  Sun Sep 16 13:32:47 2007
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:32:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <200709151655.29586.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
	<200709151655.29586.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709161122130.17446@farnsworth.tigertech.net>

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, Jeremy wrote:

> Have you rebooted since the installfest?
Oh yes, I turn my computer off most nights.

>
> A couple things I've seen before:
> 	1) If you make changes to the kernel, or recompile it, there can be problems
> with updates via packaging systems.
> 	2) If you wait too long to reboot after an upgrade, especially if there are
> multiple kernel upgrades in the meantime, you can have kernel images that
> don't boot.
>
> As Eric suggested, booting with an older kernel is a good test.  Otherwise,
> try a rescue disk and verify that you can access the files.  If the files
> really aren't there, then you might need to check the SMART data for the
> drive.

I tried several old kernels and they all fail the same way - see Fri 9/14
list message for messages displayed about errors mounting /root/dev ,
/sys and /proc.

Using the live cd's /proc/partitions I mounted the ones that I concluded
were / , /home and /boot successfully. I looked around and they look fine.
So the disk looks ok.

FRed

--
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Sun Sep 16 13:45:05 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:45:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709161122130.17446@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
	<200709151655.29586.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0709161122130.17446@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <200709161345.05926.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Anyone know much about Grub?  It sounds like the problem is somewhere between 
grub and initrd.

On Sunday 16 September 2007 1:32:47 pm Fred H Olson wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, Jeremy wrote:
> > Have you rebooted since the installfest?
>
> Oh yes, I turn my computer off most nights.
>
> > A couple things I've seen before:
> > 	1) If you make changes to the kernel, or recompile it, there can be
> > problems with updates via packaging systems.
> > 	2) If you wait too long to reboot after an upgrade, especially if there
> > are multiple kernel upgrades in the meantime, you can have kernel images
> > that don't boot.
> >
> > As Eric suggested, booting with an older kernel is a good test. 
> > Otherwise, try a rescue disk and verify that you can access the files. 
> > If the files really aren't there, then you might need to check the SMART
> > data for the drive.
>
> I tried several old kernels and they all fail the same way - see Fri 9/14
> list message for messages displayed about errors mounting /root/dev ,
> /sys and /proc.
>
> Using the live cd's /proc/partitions I mounted the ones that I concluded
> were / , /home and /boot successfully. I looked around and they look fine.
> So the disk looks ok.
>
> FRed
>
> --
> Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
> Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
> http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
> 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org




From florin at iucha.net  Mon Sep 17 14:20:18 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:20:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <200709161345.05926.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709141354300.2701@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
	<200709151655.29586.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0709161122130.17446@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
	<200709161345.05926.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <20070917192018.GD16051@iucha.net>

On Sun, Sep 16, 2007 at 01:45:05PM -0500, Jeremy wrote:
> Anyone know much about Grub?  It sounds like the problem is somewhere between 
> grub and initrd.

Enough to get in trouble ;)

It would be useful to boot with a recent rescue disk, then look in the
/boot directory/partition to see what kernels and ramdisks are present
(and print the list of files).  Then, copy (and preferably print)
the /boot/grub/menu.lst file.

Reboot the computer and type 'c' at the GRUB prompt.  This will drop
you in a command shell.  From there, you need to tell grub where to
find the kernel (and all the information is in menu.lst).

For instance, to manually boot my server, I would type the following:

   root (hd0,0)
   kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-1-686 root=/dev/sda1 ro console=tty0
   initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-1-686
   boot

This assumes that my root disk is the first partition of the first
disk and /boot is a directory on the root partition.

If any of the 'kernel' or 'initrd' commands fails, this means
grub cannot find a requisite file.  Then try again, using an older
kernel/initrd (if you upgraded, you should have some older versions
lying around).

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From al7amdlellah at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 12:34:06 2007
From: al7amdlellah at yahoo.com (MIM)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:34:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Crash
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1190134816.733.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <356886.84690.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I would strongly recommend that one of our meetings be devoted to recover systems from crashes. Personally, I have been on and off with linux for 2 reasons 1) Not knowing how to recover a crash (steps and what so ...) 2) Not being able to move it to new hard drive or change partition size without messing up the system.

Think it over and I think more people will get interested in Linux as it comes clear how to solve some basic but serious problems. We can make a series of it , hands on fixing the un-fixable :) :), graphic card, sound card, ... and backup, restore, crash fix, and similar.

I know we can find that on the net but hands on is the best way with some notes for sure.

Thanks

       
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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From fholson at cohousing.org  Tue Sep 18 14:32:30 2007
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709181036250.28610@farnsworth.tigertech.net>


Hi Florin,

Florin, thanks so much for the advice. I'm sure you'd have this fixed in a
flash if you were at my keyboard but I suppose it's a learning experience
for me to muddle thru it.

I did "find" my root (hda1), home (hda4) and boot (hda5) partitions from
the live cd version of Ubuntu 7.04.    fsck found no errors on nay of
these partitions.

The message below got rather long so I'll ask what I think is the ekey
next question here up front:

My /boot is a separate partition so how do I  modify
your example "kernel" and "initrd" command strings  as a result?

Here goes the long response...

In your most recent message you wrote:

> It would be useful to boot with a recent rescue disk, then look in the
> /boot directory/partition to see what kernels and ramdisks are present
> (and print the list of files).  Then, copy (and preferably print)
> the /boot/grub/menu.lst file.

See copies appended below.

> Reboot the computer and type 'c' at the GRUB prompt.
> This will drop you in a command shell.
(It's <esc> c now)

> From there, you need to tell grub where to
> find the kernel (and all the information is in menu.lst).

> For instance, to manually boot my server, I would type the following:

>   root (hd0,0)
>   kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-1-686 root=/dev/sda1 ro console=tty0
>   initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-1-686
>   boot
>
> This assumes that my root disk is the first partition of the first
> disk and /boot is a directory on the root partition.
>
> If any of the 'kernel' or 'initrd' commands fails, this means
> grub cannot find a requisite file.  Then try again, using an older
> kernel/initrd (if you upgraded, you should have some older versions
> lying around).

I got to the command shell from grub and
root (hd0,4)
got the response:
Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83

My /boot is a separate partition so I am unsure how to modify
your example "kernel" and "initrd" command strings.


I wanted to "look around" at various partitions to see if they looked as
expected but the Grub shell does not have an "ls" command !  (I tried
find /boot/*
 and
find /*
but just got an error message tho it tries to access the floppy drive!

I note that in menu.1st all the entries in the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
have root (hd0,0) which would seem like it would explain the problem
reboot. In the next line what does root=/dev/hda3 refer to?

According to:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#kernel
"The rest of the line is passed verbatim as the kernel command-line"
but I have not found an explanation of of the "kernel command-line"

Also it occurs to me that a bit more background might give a clue to how
this situation developed.

When I installed Ubuntu 6.06 on this computer at an installfest.
we only allowed about 2.5 GB for the root partition. For a year I got
along with this but it was tight.  At the installfest in August (2007)
I got help getting a larger root partition. We had to moove all files
to an external harddisk, make a new larger partition (with a different
partition number) and move the files back.  After a bit of tweaking
it ran fine till I did the upgrades.  I suspect there was something that
did not get updated to account for the new partition layout...

Fred

--
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org


***1  /boot partition  files
total 54844
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root    2048 2007-09-14 18:58 .
drwxr-xr-x 7 root root     180 2007-09-18 04:10 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  266619 2006-05-23 16:56 abi-2.6.15-23-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  266619 2006-06-14 12:15 abi-2.6.15-25-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  266735 2006-09-08 21:51 abi-2.6.15-26-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  266735 2006-12-08 19:34 abi-2.6.15-27-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  266735 2007-07-18 23:36 abi-2.6.15-28-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  266735 2007-08-29 15:17 abi-2.6.15-29-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   69878 2006-05-23 13:47 config-2.6.15-23-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   69876 2006-06-14 11:24 config-2.6.15-25-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   69978 2006-09-08 19:52 config-2.6.15-26-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   69967 2006-12-08 17:50 config-2.6.15-27-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   69967 2007-07-18 22:49 config-2.6.15-28-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   69967 2007-08-29 13:17 config-2.6.15-29-386
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root    1024 2007-09-14 18:59 grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7001174 2006-06-03 16:32 initrd.img-2.6.15-23-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6772220 2006-06-21 20:08 initrd.img-2.6.15-25-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6776477 2006-11-09 15:30 initrd.img-2.6.15-26-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6775986 2006-12-19 17:49 initrd.img-2.6.15-27-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6795425 2007-09-14 18:59 initrd.img-2.6.15-28-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6795333 2007-09-14 18:58 initrd.img-2.6.15-29-386
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   12288 2006-06-03 16:25 lost+found
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   94760 2005-10-25 10:32 memtest86+.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  725460 2006-05-23 16:56 System.map-2.6.15-23-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  725531 2006-06-14 12:15 System.map-2.6.15-25-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  726461 2006-09-08 21:51 System.map-2.6.15-26-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  725967 2006-12-08 19:34 System.map-2.6.15-27-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  727165 2007-07-18 23:36 System.map-2.6.15-28-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  727244 2007-08-29 15:17 System.map-2.6.15-29-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1414477 2006-05-23 16:56 vmlinuz-2.6.15-23-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1414674 2006-06-14 12:15 vmlinuz-2.6.15-25-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1414735 2006-09-08 21:51 vmlinuz-2.6.15-26-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1414752 2006-12-08 19:34 vmlinuz-2.6.15-27-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1415298 2007-07-18 23:36 vmlinuz-2.6.15-28-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1414837 2007-08-29 15:17 vmlinuz-2.6.15-29-386

***2
# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info grub, update-grub(8)
#            grub-install(8), grub-floppy(8),
#            grub-md5-crypt, /usr/share/doc/grub
#            and /usr/share/doc/grub-doc/.

## default num
# Set the default entry to the entry number NUM. Numbering starts from 0,
and
# the entry number 0 is the default if the command is not used.
#
# You can specify 'saved' instead of a number. In this case, the default
entry
# is the entry saved with the command 'savedefault'.
# WARNING: If you are using dmraid do not change this entry to 'saved' or
your
# array will desync and will not let you boot your system.
default		0

## timeout sec
# Set a timeout, in SEC seconds, before automatically booting the default
entry
# (normally the first entry defined).
timeout		3

## hiddenmenu
# Hides the menu by default (press ESC to see the menu)
hiddenmenu

# Pretty colours
#color cyan/blue white/blue

## password ['--md5'] passwd
# If used in the first section of a menu file, disable all interactive
editing
# control (menu entry editor and command-line)  and entries protected by
the
# command 'lock'
# e.g. password topsecret
#      password --md5 $1$gLhU0/$aW78kHK1QfV3P2b2znUoe/
# password topsecret

#
# examples
#
# title		Windows 95/98/NT/2000
# root		(hd0,0)
# makeactive
# chainloader	+1
#
# title		Linux
# root		(hd0,1)
# kernel	/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 ro
#

#
# Put static boot stanzas before and/or after AUTOMAGIC KERNEL LIST

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
## lines between the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST markers will be modified
## by the debian update-grub script except for the default options below

## DO NOT UNCOMMENT THEM, Just edit them to your needs

## ## Start Default Options ##
## default kernel options
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z
## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted.
## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
##      kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro
##      kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro
# kopt=root=/dev/hda3 ro

## default grub root device
## e.g. groot=(hd0,0)
# groot=(hd0,0)

## should update-grub create alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. alternative=true
##      alternative=false
# alternative=true

## should update-grub lock alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. lockalternative=true
##      lockalternative=false
# lockalternative=false

## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with
the
## alternatives
## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5
# defoptions=quiet splash

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
##      altoptions=(recovery mode) single
# altoptions=(recovery mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
##      howmany=7
# howmany=all

## should update-grub create memtest86 boot option
## e.g. memtest86=true
##      memtest86=false
# memtest86=true

## should update-grub adjust the value of the default booted system
## can be true or false
# updatedefaultentry=false

## ## End Default Options ##

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-29-386
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-29-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro quiet splash
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-29-386
savedefault
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-29-386 (recovery mode)
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-29-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-29-386
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-28-386
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-28-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro quiet splash
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-28-386
savedefault
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-28-386 (recovery mode)
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-28-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-28-386
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-27-386
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-27-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro quiet splash
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-27-386
savedefault
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-27-386 (recovery mode)
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-27-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-27-386
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-26-386
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-26-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro quiet splash
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-26-386
savedefault
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-26-386 (recovery mode)
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-26-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-26-386
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-25-386
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-25-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro quiet splash
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-25-386
savedefault
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-25-386 (recovery mode)
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-25-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-25-386
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-23-386
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-23-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro quiet splash
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-23-386
savedefault
boot

title		Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-23-386 (recovery mode)
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.15-23-386 root=/dev/hda3 ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.15-23-386
boot

title		Ubuntu, memtest86+
root		(hd0,0)
kernel		/memtest86+.bin
boot

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST



From florin at iucha.net  Tue Sep 18 15:15:12 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:15:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] crash on booting after upgrades
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709181036250.28610@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709181036250.28610@farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <20070918201512.GL16051@iucha.net>

Fred,

What you need to do is boot from the rescue CD, mount the boot
partition, edit the menu.lst to replace hda3 with hda4 . Save and
reboot.

Cheers,
florin

Original, long, explanation, follows ...

On Tue, Sep 18, 2007 at 12:32:30PM -0700, Fred H Olson wrote:
> Florin, thanks so much for the advice. I'm sure you'd have this fixed in a
> flash if you were at my keyboard but I suppose it's a learning experience
> for me to muddle thru it.

Don't ask me how I got my learning experience... 8^)

> I did "find" my root (hda1), home (hda4) and boot (hda5) partitions from
> the live cd version of Ubuntu 7.04.    fsck found no errors on nay of
> these partitions.
> 
> The message below got rather long so I'll ask what I think is the ekey
> next question here up front:
> 
> My /boot is a separate partition so how do I  modify
> your example "kernel" and "initrd" command strings  as a result?

The indices are 0-based, both for disks and partitions, so root (hd0, 4)
is correct.  Then, as you see in your own GRUB file, you remove the
"boot/" from the paths, since your files are in the root directory on
the boot partition.

> Here goes the long response...
> 
> In your most recent message you wrote:
> 
> > It would be useful to boot with a recent rescue disk, then look in the
> > /boot directory/partition to see what kernels and ramdisks are present
> > (and print the list of files).  Then, copy (and preferably print)
> > the /boot/grub/menu.lst file.
> 
> See copies appended below.
> 
> > Reboot the computer and type 'c' at the GRUB prompt.
> > This will drop you in a command shell.
> (It's <esc> c now)
> 
> > From there, you need to tell grub where to
> > find the kernel (and all the information is in menu.lst).
> 
> > For instance, to manually boot my server, I would type the following:
> 
> >   root (hd0,0)
> >   kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-1-686 root=/dev/sda1 ro console=tty0
> >   initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-1-686
> >   boot
> >
> > This assumes that my root disk is the first partition of the first
> > disk and /boot is a directory on the root partition.
> >
> > If any of the 'kernel' or 'initrd' commands fails, this means
> > grub cannot find a requisite file.  Then try again, using an older
> > kernel/initrd (if you upgraded, you should have some older versions
> > lying around).
> 
> I got to the command shell from grub and
> root (hd0,4)
> got the response:
> Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83

Good.

> My /boot is a separate partition so I am unsure how to modify
> your example "kernel" and "initrd" command strings.
> 
> 
> I wanted to "look around" at various partitions to see if they looked as
> expected but the Grub shell does not have an "ls" command !  (I tried
> find /boot/*
>  and
> find /*
> but just got an error message tho it tries to access the floppy drive!
> 
> I note that in menu.1st all the entries in the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
> have root (hd0,0) which would seem like it would explain the problem
> reboot. In the next line what does root=/dev/hda3 refer to?

'root=/dev/foo' tells the kernel what to mount as root file system.

It seems that you and grub have a disagreement on which file system to
use 8^)

> According to:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#kernel
> "The rest of the line is passed verbatim as the kernel command-line"
> but I have not found an explanation of of the "kernel command-line"

That is specific to every operating system.  For the explanation of
the linux command line look in the linux kernel sources, in the 
Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt file.

> Also it occurs to me that a bit more background might give a clue to how
> this situation developed.
> 
> When I installed Ubuntu 6.06 on this computer at an installfest.
> we only allowed about 2.5 GB for the root partition. For a year I got
> along with this but it was tight.  At the installfest in August (2007)
> I got help getting a larger root partition. We had to moove all files
> to an external harddisk, make a new larger partition (with a different
> partition number) and move the files back.  After a bit of tweaking
> it ran fine till I did the upgrades.  I suspect there was something that
> did not get updated to account for the new partition layout...

Aha!  Whomever helped you do this, manually patched the _USED_
entries in grub, but not the _COMMENTED OUT_ entry for kopt, which
the grub updater uses.  On the next update, you got a new kernel,
and the kernel package installer script ran the grub updater, which
regenerated the file.  Editing the menu.lst should get you going.

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From tclug at lizakowski.com  Tue Sep 18 16:22:19 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:22:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Crash
In-Reply-To: <356886.84690.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <356886.84690.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200709181622.19318.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> Personally, I have been on and off with linux for 2
> reasons 1) Not knowing how to recover a crash (steps and what so ...) 2)
> Not being able to move it to new hard drive or change partition size
> without messing up the system.

Windows and Linux are the same.  If windows crashes, you boot from a rescue 
disk, migrate data. and reinstall.  It's the same for Linux.  

There are some advanced things you can do to get fancy with Linux and avoid 
reinstall, things which I imagine are not easily possible on windows.  Those 
are a bonus, not a drawback.

> Think it over and I think more people will get interested in Linux as it
> comes clear how to solve some basic but serious problems. 

In my experience, it's the other way around.  I see crashes less often with 
Linux.  When using windows, I'm also always surprised how they demand reboots 
all the time whenever they install something or update software in the 
background.  It very difficult to accomplish tasks on Windows that take more 
than a few days, with all the reboots.  My Linux boxes are usually up for 
months at a time, and go down only for lightning storms and major upgrades.

If there are Linux adoption issues, I think it's partly because windows ships 
by default on pretty much every PC.  If Linux shipped by default, and you had 
to buy windows CDs and install them yourself, the tables would be turned.

Jeremy


On Tuesday 18 September 2007 12:34:06 pm MIM wrote:
> I would strongly recommend that one of our meetings be devoted to recover
> systems from crashes. Personally, I have been on and off with linux for 2
> reasons 1) Not knowing how to recover a crash (steps and what so ...) 2)
> Not being able to move it to new hard drive or change partition size
> without messing up the system.
>
> Think it over and I think more people will get interested in Linux as it
> comes clear how to solve some basic but serious problems. We can make a
> series of it , hands on fixing the un-fixable :) :), graphic card, sound
> card, ... and backup, restore, crash fix, and similar.
>
> I know we can find that on the net but hands on is the best way with some
> notes for sure.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.




From fholson at cohousing.org  Wed Sep 19 07:41:14 2007
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 05:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Grub configuration fixed [was: crash on booting after
	upgrades
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709190525330.5137@farnsworth.tigertech.net>

Florin wrote:

> What you need to do is boot from the rescue CD, mount the boot
> partition, edit the menu.lst to replace hda3 with hda4 . Save and
> reboot.

Very close.

In /boot/grub/menu.lst , in the section:
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
I changed
# kopt=root=/dev/hda3 ro
to
# kopt=root=/dev/hda5 ro
and saved the file.
Then I ran
>update-grub

This results in menu entries like:

title           Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.15-29-386
root            (hd0,0)
kernel          /vmlinuz-2.6.15-29-386 root=/dev/hda5 ro quiet splash
initrd          /initrd.img-2.6.15-29-386
savedefault
boot

And now it boots...

Notes:

The commented out "defaults" in menu.lst allow update-grub to know the
pattern of the menu entries.  The latter have to change periodically -
e.g.  when a new kernel version becomes available.

Note the the line:
root   (hd0,0)
sets GRUB's root not the operating system's root.
The later is specified in the "root=" part of the
kernel line.  Note that the path to the files passed to kernel and initrd
are relative to Grub's root set by the root command.

Thanks to Florin and others for their assistance with my problem.
I learned a lot and finally got it fixed.

Fred

--
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
Communications for Justice -- Free, superior listserv's w/o ads:
http://justcomm.org      My Link Pg: http://fholson.cohousing.org
612-588-9532 (7am-10pm CST/CDT)   Email: fholson at cohousing.org



From al7amdlellah at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 08:24:34 2007
From: al7amdlellah at yahoo.com (MIM)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 06:24:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Crash
In-Reply-To: <mailman.940.1190205874.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <811595.34279.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I would like to agree and disagree with Jeremy. I agree that Linux crash less and that it is much more stable than Windows. I disagree on the easiness of some actions and of corrective measures. The reason is that windows is GUI while Linux, is more command line (which I see great if I get to know how :)). For example, to mount a drive you need to know the command and the options (I know most of it now but keep forgetting it as I do not use it often) also when I get a program source code and I am stuck during linking and compiling. I know it is simple for you guys, but for someone switching and really eager to switch (I even bought Zaurus PDA as it is Linux pda :) :)). 

I think a hands on for Linux will be great. I can get books but experience is better. And as many of you guys have Linux machine as their main machine, you have gone through a lot. I would love to be like you and completely migrate to Linux.

By the way, I was playing around with Trixbox and I updated it beyond repair :) :). I mean, when updated, zaptel is not working anymore. It can be as simple as changing a line in a config file, but that is the kind of problems newbies fall into :) :).

Please consider Hands On Series.

p.s.
I would love at some point to learn how to charge and fine tune my linux box too :) 

p.s.
Most of the crashes that happened to me were self inflected, meaning playing around too much and causing damage as I try. And also I was unable to migrate Linux another computer


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:22:19 -0500
From: Jeremy 
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Crash
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <200709181622.19318.tclug at lizakowski.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"

> Personally, I have been on and off with linux for 2
> reasons 1) Not knowing how to recover a crash (steps and what so ...) 2)
> Not being able to move it to new hard drive or change partition size
> without messing up the system.

Windows and Linux are the same.  If windows crashes, you boot from a rescue 
disk, migrate data. and reinstall.  It's the same for Linux.  

There are some advanced things you can do to get fancy with Linux and avoid 
reinstall, things which I imagine are not easily possible on windows.  Those 
are a bonus, not a drawback.

> Think it over and I think more people will get interested in Linux as it
> comes clear how to solve some basic but serious problems. 

In my experience, it's the other way around.  I see crashes less often with 
Linux.  When using windows, I'm also always surprised how they demand reboots 
all the time whenever they install something or update software in the 
background.  It very difficult to accomplish tasks on Windows that take more 
than a few days, with all the reboots.  My Linux boxes are usually up for 
months at a time, and go down only for lightning storms and major upgrades.

If there are Linux adoption issues, I think it's partly because windows ships 
by default on pretty much every PC.  If Linux shipped by default, and you had 
to buy windows CDs and install them yourself, the tables would be turned.

Jeremy






       
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
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From slushpupie at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 09:41:19 2007
From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:41:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Can't start iceape from inside icedove
In-Reply-To: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <ace41e70709190741r285860e1o36e140b90e9dd7e3@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/16/07, Steve Cayford <strayf at freeshell.org> wrote:
> Not a critical problem or anything, but if anyone knows offhand...
>
> On one of my computers (running Debian testing) I read mail using
> icedove. However, clicking a web link in an email fails to open the page
> with iceape.

While I dont have a solution for you, debian has a bug report related
to this problem:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=425790

Though, it looks like you have the right setup, perhaps you could add
your input to the bugreport

-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Wed Sep 19 19:04:40 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:04:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VNC & Krfb (and voice recognition by proxy)
In-Reply-To: <ace41e70709190741r285860e1o36e140b90e9dd7e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
	<ace41e70709190741r285860e1o36e140b90e9dd7e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200709191904.41011.tclug@lizakowski.com>


Does anyone use VNC from Windows to Linux?

I'm trying to connect to my Kde desktop from Windows XP.  I was able to get 
vnserver working with tightvnc very nicely, but that creates a new X windows 
session.  I want to access my existing session on desktop :0, so that I can 
work with my running apps.

Side note:  I just bought a voice recognition program for windows (Dragon 9), 
and I want to use it with Kmail.  I want use the Linux box normally, but the 
headset is connected to my windows box, which then inserts the characters 
over the vnc session.   

This actually works great with vncserver, but it's not so useful if it's on 
it's own X session.  I want the characters entered into the same session that 
I'm using.

Xrfb is exactly what I want, but it crashed.  When I tried Xrfb with tightvnc, 
it made a connection, and I saw the desktop, but clicking on any windows 
caused Xrfb to crash.  I thought it might be an issue with compiz, but 
uninstalling it didn't make a difference.  Google found others with the 
issue, but no resolution.  I'm on ubuntu.

Does anyone else use a vnc connection from XP -> Kde ?

Jeremy  


From thecubic at thecubic.net  Wed Sep 19 19:41:24 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:41:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] VNC & Krfb (and voice recognition by proxy)
In-Reply-To: <200709191904.41011.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
	<ace41e70709190741r285860e1o36e140b90e9dd7e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191904.41011.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <16139.163.231.6.88.1190248884.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>

> I want to access my existing session on desktop :0, so that I
> can work with my running apps.

You want to run 'x0vncserver' (if it doesn't exist, you need to install a
vnc server package).  It works but it's got its caveats - it is a bit slow
and a resource hog.

There is a GNOME utility called vino-server - it does work great for KDE
also.  It is a fairly recent tool.

In Fedora (7) I just logged into KDE, ran vino-preferences and then
/usr/libexec/vino-server and it worked great.  If KDE is configured to
launch that /usr/libexec/vino-server at login it will be automatic.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>





From tonyyarusso at comcast.net  Wed Sep 19 20:31:42 2007
From: tonyyarusso at comcast.net (Anthony Yarusso)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:31:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Twin Cities Free Geek?
In-Reply-To: <46C486DF.9070300@riseup.net>
References: <mailman.7.1187283606.32570.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<46C486DF.9070300@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <46F1CD7E.1090007@comcast.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

What would "membership-based" entail?

Any other developments on the Free Geek front?

- - Tony

Erik wrote:
> There is a group now forming that has a long-term goal of opening
> something like Free Geek. It's called "Open Circuit," you can check
> out the wiki right here: http://riselikelions.org/techwiki
>
> Unlike Free Geek, we are probably going to be membership-based, and
> will also focus on sharing skills between members.
>
> If you're interested, let me know and I will add you to the email list!
>
> -Erik
>
> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:58:12 -0500
>> From: "John T. Hoffoss" <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Slightly OT: Twin Cities Free Geek?
>> To: "TCLUG List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>     <914f813c0708160758l307eb791yeee2965faab967fd at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> On 8/15/07, canito at dalan.us <canito at dalan.us> wrote:
>>  
>>> Brian, List:
>>>
>>> I have always thought of doing something very similar. There was a
>>> building up for sale next to my school and I thought how cool it would
>>> be to have something in the realm of a community technology center!
>>>    
>>
>> FYI, there is a community technology center of sorts in downtown
>> Minneapolis. I've never been in it, and not sure what exactly they
>> cover, but it might be a very good spot to go to begin a conversation
>> about beefing up current organizations instead of starting a new one
>> in parallel. I believe it's on Chicago near HCMC, not sure of the
>> name.
>>
>> -jth
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:37:14 -0500
>> From: "Brian Dunnette" <bdunnette at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Slightly OT: Twin Cities Free Geek?
>> To: "John T. Hoffoss" <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com>
>> Cc: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>     <e9cd5840708160937u25881b2bs21d921674aa8f2bc at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> John-
>>
>> Thanks for the tip -- don't want to unnecessarily duplicate too much
>> effort!  I checked on a list of local CTCs (
>> http://www.c-can.org/centers.html), but didn't see anything near HCMC --
>> anyone know of any more specifics (contact info?) on this organization?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian D.
>>
>>
>> On 8/16/07, John T. Hoffoss <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  
>>> On 8/15/07, canito at dalan.us <canito at dalan.us> wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Brian, List:
>>>>
>>>> I have always thought of doing something very similar. There was a
>>>> building up for sale next to my school and I thought how cool it would
>>>> be to have something in the realm of a community technology center!
>>>>      
>>> FYI, there is a community technology center of sorts in downtown
>>> Minneapolis. I've never been in it, and not sure what exactly they
>>> cover, but it might be a very good spot to go to begin a conversation
>>> about beefing up current organizations instead of starting a new one
>>> in parallel. I believe it's on Chicago near HCMC, not sure of the
>>> name.
>>>
>>> -jth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>    
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed Sep 19 22:16:46 2007
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:16:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VNC & Krfb (and voice recognition by proxy)
In-Reply-To: <200709191904.41011.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
	<ace41e70709190741r285860e1o36e140b90e9dd7e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191904.41011.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200709192216.47683.jus@krytosvirus.com>


On Wednesday 19 September 2007 19:04, Jeremy wrote:
> Does anyone use VNC from Windows to Linux?
>
> I'm trying to connect to my Kde desktop from Windows XP.  I was able to get
> vnserver working with tightvnc very nicely, but that creates a new X
> windows session.  I want to access my existing session on desktop :0, so
> that I can work with my running apps.
>
> Side note:  I just bought a voice recognition program for windows (Dragon
> 9), and I want to use it with Kmail.  I want use the Linux box normally,
> but the headset is connected to my windows box, which then inserts the
> characters over the vnc session.
>
> This actually works great with vncserver, but it's not so useful if it's on
> it's own X session.  I want the characters entered into the same session
> that I'm using.
>
> Xrfb is exactly what I want, but it crashed.  When I tried Xrfb with
> tightvnc, it made a connection, and I saw the desktop, but clicking on any
> windows caused Xrfb to crash.  I thought it might be an issue with compiz,
> but uninstalling it didn't make a difference.  Google found others with the
> issue, but no resolution.  I'm on ubuntu.
>
> Does anyone else use a vnc connection from XP -> Kde ?
>

krfb works for me. The path on my system is /usr/kde/3.5/bin/krfb
I have never used xrfb so I don't know if krfb has any relation but it has not 
crashed on me. I have noticed the input is a little sluggish on the desktop 
sharing compared to a regular vnc session but it does work for me in a pinch. 
Of course the source OS is not relavent, just need a vnc client.

krfb --help-all
Usage: krfb [Qt-options] [KDE-options] [options]

VNC-compatible server to share KDE desktops
... <snip>


From wilson at visi.com  Wed Sep 19 22:32:06 2007
From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:32:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Indoor mobile phone reception
Message-ID: <3470D531-7472-4B64-80DA-CC2FA307ECD1@visi.com>

Hey everyone,

We just got new windows at my office to replace the really old,  
inefficient ones we had. The new ones are aluminum with integrated  
blinds. Unfortunately, they are also exceptionally good mobile phone  
signal blockers. I went from a reasonable signal to "no network"  
overnight.

Does anyone have any experience with passive repeaters? Any other  
ideas I should consider?

-Tim

-- 
Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist
Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy
mailto: wilson at visi.com  aim: tis270  blog and podcast: http:// 
technosavvy.org




From sraun at fireopal.org  Wed Sep 19 23:09:11 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:09:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Relative links on DVDs?
Message-ID: <20070920040911.GA302@fireopal.org>

I'm trying to figure out how to make a relative link on a DVD.  I need
to have the same couple of MB file in multiple places, or else one
master and pointers to it.  I'm currently using Windows-based tools,
and don't have any experience with DVD tools in Linux - anyone have
suggestions or pointers?

This is one of my stumbling blocks to going totally Linux - anyone
know of a free Lightscribe tool?

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From thecubic at thecubic.net  Wed Sep 19 23:50:35 2007
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:50:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Relative links on DVDs?
In-Reply-To: <20070920040911.GA302@fireopal.org>
References: <20070920040911.GA302@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <19304.163.231.6.86.1190263835.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>


> I'm trying to figure out how to make a relative link on a DVD.
> I'm currently using Windows-based tools,
> and don't have any experience with DVD tools in Linux - anyone have
> suggestions or pointers?

Check out k3b, the KDE burner software.  It's production quality.

It defaults to understanding symbolic links by default (and will tell you
if something is inside or outside of the project) - anything that can
write with Rock Ridge extensions should be able to.

> This is one of my stumbling blocks to going totally Linux - anyone
> know of a free Lightscribe tool?

Both of these are free as in beer:

LaCie LightScribe Labeler for Linux -
http://www.lacie.com/us/support/support_manifest.htm?id=10204

HP Simple Labeler -
http://www.lightscribe.com/downloadSection/linux/index.aspx

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>


From blawrence at qwest.net  Thu Sep 20 00:18:02 2007
From: blawrence at qwest.net (Brian Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:18:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Need a dual Ethernet router
Message-ID: <077001c7fb45$9e564e80$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>

Does anyone have a dual Ethernet Cisco router (2501 would work) sitting
around collecting dust? I need one for some testing and I'm hoping to find
one very cheap or free if possible. If not, do you know of any place in town
that sells them? I remember seeing a group of them posted here in the
"garage sale" a few months back.

Thanks,
Brian Lawrence



From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Sep 20 00:33:16 2007
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:33:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Need a dual Ethernet router
In-Reply-To: <077001c7fb45$9e564e80$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>
References: <077001c7fb45$9e564e80$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>
Message-ID: <200709200033.17324.jus@krytosvirus.com>

On Thursday 20 September 2007 00:18, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> Does anyone have a dual Ethernet Cisco router (2501 would work) sitting
> around collecting dust? I need one for some testing and I'm hoping to find
> one very cheap or free if possible. If not, do you know of any place in
> town that sells them? I remember seeing a group of them posted here in the
> "garage sale" a few months back.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian Lawrence
>
>

http://comstarinc.com/

Local and usually have pretty much everything. They have more than what is 
listed on their site. Contact Steve Chiodo. This is of course not free.

I have no affiliation with them other than as a happy customer.


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Sep 20 02:52:52 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 02:52:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VNC & Krfb (and voice recognition by proxy)
In-Reply-To: <16139.163.231.6.88.1190248884.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
	<200709191904.41011.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<16139.163.231.6.88.1190248884.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <200709200252.52250.tclug@lizakowski.com>


actually, I'm now using a package called X11 VNC server.  it seems to work 
much better than KRFB.  

I'm writing this e-mail using voice dictation with Dragon nine.  It works 
quite well.  The headphones are connected to a Windows machine which then use 
VNC to connect Linux where I am composing the e-mail using Gmail.  No, I said 
K mail.  Apparently the software has a preference for Google products, or at 
least we know something about the training database they used for their 
artificial intelligence.

The nice part about this configuration is that I can still use the keyboard on 
the Linux machine while I speak.

The only annoyance, is that when I want to use punctuation,  such as, I have 
to literally say the word, period

no, I didn't say, period I said, period.  Dammit.  I can't have a 
meta-discussion about punctuation, apparently.

Jeremy


Wednesday 19 September 2007 7:41:24 pm Dave Carlson wrote:
> > I want to access my existing session on desktop :0, so that I
> > can work with my running apps.
>
> You want to run 'x0vncserver' (if it doesn't exist, you need to install a
> vnc server package).  It works but it's got its caveats - it is a bit slow
> and a resource hog.
>
> There is a GNOME utility called vino-server - it does work great for KDE
> also.  It is a fairly recent tool.
>
> In Fedora (7) I just logged into KDE, ran vino-preferences and then
> /usr/libexec/vino-server and it worked great.  If KDE is configured to
> launch that /usr/libexec/vino-server at login it will be automatic.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Dave Carlson <thecubic at thecubic.net>




From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Sep 20 07:22:15 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:22:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] VNC & Krfb (and voice recognition by proxy)
In-Reply-To: <200709200252.52250.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
	<200709191904.41011.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<16139.163.231.6.88.1190248884.squirrel@castor.thecubic.net>
	<200709200252.52250.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709200719040.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Jeremy wrote:
> The only annoyance, is that when I want to use punctuation,  such as, I have
> to literally say the word, period
>
> no, I didn't say, period I said, period.  Dammit.  I can't have a
> meta-discussion about punctuation, apparently.

  Could be worse, you could be trying to write a perl script using voice 
recognition[1]. ;-)

      Jima

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc


From j at packetgod.com  Thu Sep 20 08:14:24 2007
From: j at packetgod.com (J)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:14:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Need a dual Ethernet router
In-Reply-To: <200709200033.17324.jus@krytosvirus.com>
References: <077001c7fb45$9e564e80$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>
	<200709200033.17324.jus@krytosvirus.com>
Message-ID: <46F27230.3060301@packetgod.com>

You know, I do happen to have a dual-e 1600 sitting around gathering 
dust (literally).  If you are interested you could either a: figure out 
what its worth and give me something in the general area of that or b: 
borrow it on the TCLUG Inter Geek General Equipment Rotation (TIGGER) 
program (details can be found somewhere in the back of my head as I just 
made that up).  Borrow it for as long as you need it and return it when 
you are done.

I've also got a 2651 but I'm not sure I want to part with it just yet 
although it has the same amount of dust as the 1600.

--j

Justin Krejci wrote:
> On Thursday 20 September 2007 00:18, Brian Lawrence wrote:
>   
>> Does anyone have a dual Ethernet Cisco router (2501 would work) sitting
>> around collecting dust? I need one for some testing and I'm hoping to find
>> one very cheap or free if possible. If not, do you know of any place in
>> town that sells them? I remember seeing a group of them posted here in the
>> "garage sale" a few months back.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian Lawrence
>>
>>
>>     
>
> http://comstarinc.com/
>
> Local and usually have pretty much everything. They have more than what is 
> listed on their site. Contact Steve Chiodo. This is of course not free.
>
> I have no affiliation with them other than as a happy customer.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Sep 20 08:34:28 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:34:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Need a dual Ethernet router
In-Reply-To: <46F27230.3060301@packetgod.com>
References: <077001c7fb45$9e564e80$f900000a@hmlabl2k001>
	<200709200033.17324.jus@krytosvirus.com>
	<46F27230.3060301@packetgod.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709200833080.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, J wrote:
> b: borrow it on the TCLUG Inter Geek General Equipment Rotation (TIGGER)
> program (details can be found somewhere in the back of my head as I just
> made that up).  Borrow it for as long as you need it and return it when
> you are done.

  That's not an awful idea.  I have lots of hardware I'd be open to lending 
out but not sure I want to do away with permanently (although I imagine I 
have some of that, too).

      Jima


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Sep 20 10:02:38 2007
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:02:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VNC & Krfb (and voice recognition by proxy)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709200719040.4486@beer.tclug.org>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
	<200709200252.52250.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0709200719040.4486@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <200709201002.38499.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc

Wow, that has potential to make coding Perl more enjoyable ;)

J

On Thursday 20 September 2007 7:22:15 am Jima wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Jeremy wrote:
> > The only annoyance, is that when I want to use punctuation,  such as, I
> > have to literally say the word, period
> >
> > no, I didn't say, period I said, period.  Dammit.  I can't have a
> > meta-discussion about punctuation, apparently.
>
>   Could be worse, you could be trying to write a perl script using voice
> recognition[1]. ;-)
>
>       Jima
>
> 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc




From admin at lctn.org  Thu Sep 20 11:53:48 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:53:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] mirror drive
Message-ID: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>

I have a box with a single drive running Linux apps. Is there a way to
mirror the drive now, or can that only be done during the install process?

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 12:14:22 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:14:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mirror drive
In-Reply-To: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0709201014p1d7bf020ne7e14937248419a3@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I have a box with a single drive running Linux apps. Is there a way to
> mirror the drive now, or can that only be done during the install process?

Do you want to mirror as in RAID1 or mirror as in rsync?

The former, which possible is a bit more complicate.  The latter,
however, would be very easy to set up.


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 12:51:51 2007
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:51:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mirror drive
In-Reply-To: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30709201051p4ae82e07g3e1e45f24244f912@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I have a box with a single drive running Linux apps. Is there a way to
> mirror the drive now, or can that only be done during the install process?

It sounds like you're referring to a software RAID 1. This is possible
and isn't really very difficult.

If you have two disks, A and B, where A is the existing disk with data
on it, then you would setup drive B as a RAID 1 device with its mirror
drive as missing. Once the array was configured and running in a
degraded mode, you would then copy the existing data from drive A to
the new array on B. After all data was copied and verified you would
setup drive A to be a RAID device and then add it to the degraded
array with drive B. The array would then rebuild on A and you will be
successfully migrated from a single disk to a RAID 1 setup.

If you'll be booting off the RAID array there will be some additional
configuration to get that working, but there are plenty of examples on
the web to perform this process.

I searched google using this search string and found a bunch of links:
migrate single disk software raid1 linux

Eric


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Sep 20 12:49:57 2007
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:49:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VNC & Krfb (and voice recognition by proxy)
In-Reply-To: <200709201002.38499.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <46EDD814.1060609@freeshell.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0709200719040.4486@beer.tclug.org>
	<200709201002.38499.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <200709201249.58666.jus@krytosvirus.com>

On Thursday 20 September 2007 10:02, Jeremy wrote:
> > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc
>
> Wow, that has potential to make coding Perl more enjoyable ;)
>
> J
>

Well it sure is a lot more enjoyable to watch than to actual do I imagine. 
Thanks for pointing that out Jima.


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Sep 20 13:17:09 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:17:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] mirror drive
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0709201014p1d7bf020ne7e14937248419a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0709201014p1d7bf020ne7e14937248419a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4754.10.10.1.1.1190312229.squirrel@lctn.org>

> Do you want to mirror as in RAID1 or mirror as in rsync?
>
> The former, which possible is a bit more complicate.  The latter,
> however, would be very easy to set up.


Looks like I have a couple options for creating a raid 1. What docs would
you use for rsync in this case?




-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 13:52:04 2007
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (Troy)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:52:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd:  Crash
In-Reply-To: <811595.34279.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.940.1190205874.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<811595.34279.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <34de7f3d0709201152v470b3cc6h5cc785cf1faa79e3@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I thought I would take this opportunity to give my opinion.  I too am a new
linux user, and would prefer to exclusively use linux as my OS.  However,
because of the learning curve I'm going through, and some proprietary
applications that run on Windows, I continue to dual boot.

My style of learning is very effective with the "hands on approach", and
while I tried learning via book, I typically find myself in a situation not
covered by the book.  I can understand why some newer users abandons linux
upon their first problem, but I personally find it rewarding to learn how to
overcome the problem.

Living in the St. Cloud area, I tried to contact the SCLUG, but it appears
they are not currently active.  Therefore, I recently joined the TCLUG
mailing list, and would like to participate in events hosted by TCLUG,
especially an install fest.

Have a great day!

Troy

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: MIM <al7amdlellah at yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 19, 2007 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Crash
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org

I would like to agree and disagree with Jeremy. I agree that Linux crash
less and that it is much more stable than Windows. I disagree on the
easiness of some actions and of corrective measures. The reason is that
windows is GUI while Linux, is more command line (which I see great if I get
to know how :)). For example, to mount a drive you need to know the command
and the options (I know most of it now but keep forgetting it as I do not
use it often) also when I get a program source code and I am stuck during
linking and compiling. I know it is simple for you guys, but for someone
switching and really eager to switch (I even bought Zaurus PDA as it is
Linux pda :) :)).

I think a hands on for Linux will be great. I can get books but experience
is better. And as many of you guys have Linux machine as their main machine,
you have gone through a lot. I would love to be like you and completely
migrate to Linux.

By the way, I was playing around with Trixbox and I updated it beyond repair
:) :). I mean, when updated, zaptel is not working anymore. It can be as
simple as changing a line in a config file, but that is the kind of problems
newbies fall into :) :).

Please consider Hands On Series.

p.s.
I would love at some point to learn how to charge and fine tune my linux box
too :)

p.s.
Most of the crashes that happened to me were self inflected, meaning playing
around too much and causing damage as I try. And also I was unable to
migrate Linux another computer
**


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:22:19 -0500
From: Jeremy
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Crash
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Message-ID: <200709181622.19318.tclug at lizakowski.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> Personally, I have been on and off with linux for 2
> reasons 1) Not knowing how to recover a crash (steps and what so ...) 2)
> Not being able to move it to new hard drive or change partition size
> without messing up the system.

Windows and Linux are the same. If windows crashes, you boot from a rescue
disk, migrate data. and reinstall. It's the same for Linux.

There are some advanced things you can do to get fancy with Linux and avoid
reinstall, things which I imagine are not easily possible on windows. Those
are a bonus, not a drawback.

> Think it over and I think more people will get interested in Linux as it
> comes clear how to solve some basic but serious problems.

In my experience, it's the other way around. I see crashes less often with
Linux. When using windows, I'm also always surprised how they demand reboots

all the time whenever they install something or update software in the
background. It very difficult to accomplish tasks on Windows that take more
than a few days, with all the reboots. My Linux boxes are usually up for
months at a time, and go down only for lightning storms and major upgrades.

If there are Linux adoption issues, I think it's partly because windows
ships
by default on pretty much every PC. If Linux shipped by default, and you had

to buy windows CDs and install them yourself, the tables would be turned.

Jeremy


------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and
Now<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48223/*http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow>(it's
updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 13:59:14 2007
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:59:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mirror drive
In-Reply-To: <4754.10.10.1.1.1190312229.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0709201014p1d7bf020ne7e14937248419a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4754.10.10.1.1.1190312229.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0709201159qe16eaaak2645e940d0be5001@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, admin at lctn.org <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
>
> Looks like I have a couple options for creating a raid 1. What docs would
> you use for rsync in this case?

Keep in mind:

rsync != RAID1

Using rsync, you'd have a periodic cron job that would mirror one
drive to the other.  With true RAID1, however, as Eric was explaining,
the kernel mirrors driveA to driveB in realtime.

Getting rsync set up would be quite easy.  Just install the new hard
drive in the box, create a partition on it and create the fs.  Once
this is complete, mount the drive somewhere, then run a command like:

$ rsync -av --progress --delete / /path/to/mount/point

This would mirror the entire contents of / to the second drive.
You'll want to do add a few "--exclude" rules to that command, though,
to exclude /proc, /dev, etc.

-erik


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Sep 20 14:08:39 2007
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:08:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mirror drive
In-Reply-To: <4754.10.10.1.1.1190312229.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<fc40260f0709201014p1d7bf020ne7e14937248419a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4754.10.10.1.1.1190312229.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <200709201408.40147.jus@krytosvirus.com>

On Thursday 20 September 2007 13:17, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> > Do you want to mirror as in RAID1 or mirror as in rsync?
> >
> > The former, which possible is a bit more complicate.  The latter,
> > however, would be very easy to set up.
>
> Looks like I have a couple options for creating a raid 1. What docs would
> you use for rsync in this case?

rsync is fairly simple, the man page should be sufficient.

otherwise there are plenty of backup utilities
rsnapshot
reoback
rdiff-backup
cp (as in the copy command)
flexbackup
ccollect
backuppc
dump
the list goes on

many of the simple tools out there use rsync.

The one thing you'd get with RAID is real time copies of your data. These 
other tools are generally going to be a scheduled task for daily, hourly, 
etc, backup. You'll also lose some disk IO performance during the backup 
task's runtime.


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Sep 20 14:17:30 2007
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:17:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd:  Crash
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0709201152v470b3cc6h5cc785cf1faa79e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.940.1190205874.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<811595.34279.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<34de7f3d0709201152v470b3cc6h5cc785cf1faa79e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709201415590.4486@beer.tclug.org>

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007, Troy wrote:
> Living in the St. Cloud area, I tried to contact the SCLUG, but it appears
> they are not currently active.  Therefore, I recently joined the TCLUG
> mailing list, and would like to participate in events hosted by TCLUG,
> especially an install fest.

  I assure you, TCLUG's level of activity compared to other local LUGs 
(SCALUG, NORLUG, maybe K-LUG, I'm not sure) is only *relative*.  Although 
I gotta admit it's been better lately than the last few years. :-)

      Jima


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Sep 20 16:11:53 2007
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:11:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] repairing file system
Message-ID: <1814.10.10.1.1.1190322713.squirrel@lctn.org>

I have a listserv box that the drive died on a few days ago. I ran fsck on
it and it fixed what it could. I am able to view it in X when running a
Linux rescue CD. It has the partition size right, but It cannot determine
the file system. Is there anything out there that can repair a ext3 file
system without wiping out all data?

I have an older backup I can use, if all is lost.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
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From florin at iucha.net  Thu Sep 20 16:51:36 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:51:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] repairing file system
In-Reply-To: <1814.10.10.1.1.1190322713.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <1814.10.10.1.1.1190322713.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20070920215136.GW16051@iucha.net>

On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 04:11:53PM -0500, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> I have a listserv box that the drive died on a few days ago. I ran fsck on
> it and it fixed what it could. I am able to view it in X when running a
> Linux rescue CD. It has the partition size right, but It cannot determine
> the file system. Is there anything out there that can repair a ext3 file
> system without wiping out all data?

ext[23] have many backup superblocks.  Before doing anything
destructive, make sure to make a copy (using dd).  Even better
would be to dd your partition to a file on a separate hard
drive, connect the backup copy to a loopback device and attempt
running fsck.ext3 on it.  If the fsck complains about a missing
superblock, try running with "-b 32768" parameter.

Good luck,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From marc at e-skinner.net  Thu Sep 20 23:11:15 2007
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:11:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mirror drive
In-Reply-To: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
References: <4580.10.10.1.1.1190307228.squirrel@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <46F34463.2030207@e-skinner.net>

admin at lctn.org wrote:
> I have a box with a single drive running Linux apps. Is there a way to
> mirror the drive now, or can that only be done during the install process?
> 


i think the question you have to answer is - do you want auto recovery,
or can you live with a manual recovery.

if you want auto recovery - then i would suggest creating a RAID-1
mirror of the main drive.  to do this is straight forward but does
require many steps.

add new disk (B) to system.  create/build raid 1 device /dev/md0 on new
disk (B) with missing device.  this will build up the raid-1 device in a
 degraded mode.  format new raid-1 device and then copy all data from
old disk (A) to new raid-1 device.  once the data has been copied, join
the old disk (A) to raid-1 device restoring it from degraded-mode.  i
would only do this if you have a really good backup, or if you can
actually set disk (A) aside, and build up the raid 1 device with 2 new
drives.  disks are really cheap theses days, so i would buy 2 new
drives, build up the raid-1 device and copy the data over.  this of
course is a simple explanation for what you would need to do, and
depending on your partition layout and the like, it may be just as
simple buy 2 new disks, install from scratch onto the new raid-1 device,
and then copy over your application data from your original drive.

if not - then rsync or another file level utility can do the trick -
just remember that it your mirrored data is only as new as the last time
you run the rsync utility.  this can be cron'ed.




From erriiik at riseup.net  Fri Sep 21 00:02:22 2007
From: erriiik at riseup.net (Erik)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:02:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TC Open Circuit/Free Geek Update
In-Reply-To: <mailman.988.1190275006.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.988.1190275006.2178.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <46F3505E.4030804@riseup.net>

Things are moving right along with the Twin Cities Open Circuit/Free 
Geek. We're having a meeting this Sunday at Common Roots Cafe at 1pm. 
We're about ready to elect some officers, incorporate, and start making 
serious plans.

"Membership-based" simply means that we would be an organization with 
members that pay (minimal) dues, rather than depending on grants, 
fundraisers, or selling things. We discussed it at our meetings and 
decided that this would be the best way to make the organization 
sustainable. We could eventually of course apply for grants for some 
projects, but we want to have a membership base like community radio or 
cable access that contributes time, energy, ideas, and money to keep the 
project running and make sure it meets the needs of the community.

Hope some of you can make it Sunday. Also let me know if you want to get 
on the email list.

best,
Erik
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:31:42 -0500
> From: Anthony Yarusso <tonyyarusso at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Twin Cities Free Geek?
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <46F1CD7E.1090007 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> What would "membership-based" entail?
>
> Any other developments on the Free Geek front?
>
> - - Tony
>
> Erik wrote:
>   
>> There is a group now forming that has a long-term goal of opening
>> something like Free Geek. It's called "Open Circuit," you can check
>> out the wiki right here: http://riselikelions.org/techwiki
>>
>> Unlike Free Geek, we are probably going to be membership-based, and
>> will also focus on sharing skills between members.
>>
>> If you're interested, let me know and I will add you to the email list!
>>
>> -Erik
>>
>> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote:
>>     
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:58:12 -0500
>>> From: "John T. Hoffoss" <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Slightly OT: Twin Cities Free Geek?
>>> To: "TCLUG List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>     <914f813c0708160758l307eb791yeee2965faab967fd at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> On 8/15/07, canito at dalan.us <canito at dalan.us> wrote:
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> Brian, List:
>>>>
>>>> I have always thought of doing something very similar. There was a
>>>> building up for sale next to my school and I thought how cool it would
>>>> be to have something in the realm of a community technology center!
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> FYI, there is a community technology center of sorts in downtown
>>> Minneapolis. I've never been in it, and not sure what exactly they
>>> cover, but it might be a very good spot to go to begin a conversation
>>> about beefing up current organizations instead of starting a new one
>>> in parallel. I believe it's on Chicago near HCMC, not sure of the
>>> name.
>>>
>>> -jth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:37:14 -0500
>>> From: "Brian Dunnette" <bdunnette at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Slightly OT: Twin Cities Free Geek?
>>> To: "John T. Hoffoss" <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>     <e9cd5840708160937u25881b2bs21d921674aa8f2bc at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> John-
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip -- don't want to unnecessarily duplicate too much
>>> effort!  I checked on a list of local CTCs (
>>> http://www.c-can.org/centers.html), but didn't see anything near HCMC --
>>> anyone know of any more specifics (contact info?) on this organization?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian D.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/16/07, John T. Hoffoss <john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> On 8/15/07, canito at dalan.us <canito at dalan.us> wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>>>> Brian, List:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have always thought of doing something very similar. There was a
>>>>> building up for sale next to my school and I thought how cool it would
>>>>> be to have something in the realm of a community technology center!
>>>>>      
>>>>>           
>>>> FYI, there is a community technology center of sorts in downtown
>>>> Minneapolis. I've never been in it, and not sure what exactly they
>>>> cover, but it might be a very good spot to go to begin a conversation
>>>> about beefing up current organizations instead of starting a new one
>>>> in parallel. I believe it's on Chicago near HCMC, not sure of the
>>>> name.
>>>>
>>>> -jth
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>     


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Sep 24 13:25:24 2007
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:25:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200709241825.l8OIPOi04429@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 3U Servers

More 3U Servers.  We have 3 more units that are fully functional and sold BEST OFFER over $50 (each) and AS-IS.  Please contact sales at bbwh.com or 651-319-9884 for more info.

Seller Email address: sales at bbwh dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 14:51:53 2007
From: john.t.hoffoss at gmail.com (John T. Hoffoss)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:51:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] repairing file system
In-Reply-To: <20070920215136.GW16051@iucha.net>
References: <1814.10.10.1.1.1190322713.squirrel@lctn.org>
	<20070920215136.GW16051@iucha.net>
Message-ID: <914f813c0709241251s1ccbdb6bj410465cad3e701aa@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2007 at 04:11:53PM -0500, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> > I have a listserv box that the drive died on a few days ago. I ran fsck
> on
> > it and it fixed what it could. I am able to view it in X when running a
> > Linux rescue CD. It has the partition size right, but It cannot
> determine
> > the file system. Is there anything out there that can repair a ext3 file
> > system without wiping out all data?
>
> ext[23] have many backup superblocks.  Before doing anything
> destructive, make sure to make a copy (using dd).  Even better
> would be to dd your partition to a file on a separate hard
> drive, connect the backup copy to a loopback device and attempt
> running fsck.ext3 on it.  If the fsck complains about a missing
> superblock, try running with "-b 32768" parameter.


Having moved from the previous thread to this one...sounds like a good
meeting hands-on. :)
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Tue Sep 25 12:33:31 2007
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:33:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WTB CPU
Message-ID: <4011.192.28.2.17.1190741611.squirrel@www.twp-llc.com>

Hey folks, I've taken Windows off my machine at home and am setting it up
for MythTV use. I got a USB HDTV tuner and got that working, I got a
GeForce FX 5200 video card and that's working, but it's still not quite
fast enough to display HDTV in real time... but it's close.

I'm looking for a CPU upgrade. I need a socket 478 Pentium 4 with a front
side bus speed of 533MHz. I think it's the Northwood I need. I can take up
to a 2.8GHz CPU, or 3.06 with HT. I will consider 2.4GHz or faster and am
hoping to spend around $40.

Send me offers.

Thanks,
Chris





From tonyyarusso at comcast.net  Tue Sep 25 21:41:58 2007
From: tonyyarusso at comcast.net (Anthony Yarusso)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:41:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WTB CPU
In-Reply-To: <4011.192.28.2.17.1190741611.squirrel@www.twp-llc.com>
References: <4011.192.28.2.17.1190741611.squirrel@www.twp-llc.com>
Message-ID: <46F9C6F6.2010809@comcast.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Chris Schumann wrote:
> Hey folks, I've taken Windows off my machine at home and am setting it up
> for MythTV use. I got a USB HDTV tuner and got that working, I got a
> GeForce FX 5200 video card and that's working, but it's still not quite
> fast enough to display HDTV in real time... but it's close.
>
> I'm looking for a CPU upgrade. I need a socket 478 Pentium 4 with a front
> side bus speed of 533MHz. I think it's the Northwood I need. I can take up
> to a 2.8GHz CPU, or 3.06 with HT. I will consider 2.4GHz or faster and am
> hoping to spend around $40.
>
> Send me offers.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
I don't have one to offer, as I just bought one with those specs.
However, I can tell you that Newegg sells a 2.8 Northwood 478 for $74
if it comes to that.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Sep 26 17:37:08 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:37:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] SSL trust issues with verisign
Message-ID: <1190846228.11747.1.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

In the past 2 days I've started getting errors about seal.verisign.com
not being a trusted site.  An example of this is http://www.tfcumn.org.
I get a dialog asking me if I want to trust the cert.  It doesn't appear
expired, which is the usual error.  Does anyone else know what is going
on here?


________________________________________________________________________
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From slushpupie at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 18:48:55 2007
From: slushpupie at gmail.com (slushpupie at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:48:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] SSL trust issues with verisign
In-Reply-To: <1190846228.11747.1.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
References: <1190846228.11747.1.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
Message-ID: <ace41e70709261648qfe9457bm781e28ca4b4c475b@mail.gmail.com>

The tfcumn.org isnt giving the error.  It has a "Seal Of Approval"
thingy, which is loaded from seal.verisign.com.  seal was signed by a
fairly new intermediate authority, but the root authority isnt new at
all.  When you view the certificate itself, you should be able to see
the chain. My guess is your browser may not have the most recent list
of "typical" CA's anymore. Or your clock is way off.  Just some
guesses...



On 9/26/07, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> In the past 2 days I've started getting errors about seal.verisign.com
> not being a trusted site.  An example of this is http://www.tfcumn.org.
> I get a dialog asking me if I want to trust the cert.  It doesn't appear
> expired, which is the usual error.  Does anyone else know what is going
> on here?
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
> signature.
> See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.
>
> For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels
> nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any
> powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all
> creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that
> is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
Jay Kline
http://www.slushpupie.com/


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Sep 26 19:59:36 2007
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:59:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] SSL trust issues with verisign
In-Reply-To: <ace41e70709261648qfe9457bm781e28ca4b4c475b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1190846228.11747.1.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>
	<ace41e70709261648qfe9457bm781e28ca4b4c475b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1190854776.11747.9.camel@jon.mn.mtu.net>

The clock is one.  Guess I'm missing a new CA.  Shouldn't I be able to
figure that out by looking at the certificate chain in firefox? 

On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 18:48 -0500, slushpupie at gmail.com wrote:
> The tfcumn.org isnt giving the error.  It has a "Seal Of Approval"
> thingy, which is loaded from seal.verisign.com.  seal was signed by a
> fairly new intermediate authority, but the root authority isnt new at
> all.  When you view the certificate itself, you should be able to see
> the chain. My guess is your browser may not have the most recent list
> of "typical" CA's anymore. Or your clock is way off.  Just some
> guesses...


________________________________________________________________________
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature.
See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels 
nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any 
powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all 
creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that 
is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From dniesen at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 11:16:38 2007
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:16:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: T1 vendors
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70709280916j3b328ecbv202b4ce8153342d2@mail.gmail.com>

Does anybody have any experienced recommendations for T1 providers?
Considering replacing a current vendor who provides ISDN PRI and data T1
lines to us.

The two characteristics we're really looking for in a provider is
reliability and responsiveness of service/repair.  We've been burned a few
times by our current provider performing "scheduled maintenance" that has
taken us down without advanced notice so we're shopping around while
reviewing our service level agreement.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us  Fri Sep 28 11:44:28 2007
From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:44:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: T1 vendors
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70709280916j3b328ecbv202b4ce8153342d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70709280916j3b328ecbv202b4ce8153342d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46FCE91C.9048.009E.0@health.state.mn.us>

>>> On 9/28/2007 at 11:16 AM, in message
<47f4d5e70709280916j3b328ecbv202b4ce8153342d2 at mail.gmail.com>, "Donovan Niesen"
<dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anybody have any experienced recommendations for T1 providers?
> Considering replacing a current vendor who provides ISDN PRI and data T1
> lines to us.
> 
> The two characteristics we're really looking for in a provider is
> reliability and responsiveness of service/repair.  We've been burned a few
> times by our current provider performing "scheduled maintenance" that has
> taken us down without advanced notice so we're shopping around while
> reviewing our service level agreement.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your advice!

I don't know how they are for T1 service, but I know that Speakeasy offers  T1 and more with SLAs.

They have been good to me as far as my DSL service goes.

Good luck,
 
Troy





From Cheryl.Hatlevig at Sun.COM  Fri Sep 28 12:45:38 2007
From: Cheryl.Hatlevig at Sun.COM (Cheryl Hatlevig)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:45:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FYI: Midwest Java Technology Days - Minneapolis
Message-ID: <46FD3DC2.20904@sun.com>

Sun is hosting Midwest Java Technology Days at the University of St. 
Thomas, Minneapolis Campus, on October 16th.  Spread the word to others 
you think might be interested.

The full-day is complementary and open to all developers.  Check out the 
agenda, speaker bios and registration details at 
https://www.suneventreg.com//cgi-bin/register.pl?EventID=1651




From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Sep 28 14:51:09 2007
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:51:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins UnBound Meeting Saturday 9-29-2007
Message-ID: <46FD5B2D.3050005@Goecke-Dolan.com>


We are having another PenguinsUnbound.net meeting
Saturday September 29. (this coming Saturday)
at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 to 12:00.

See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.

I will talk about Virtualization with OpenVZ, and dip a toe into KVM
(Kernel Virtual Machine) for a

There will be time, and I would be happy to answer any and all questions.

Thank, hope to see you there.

==>brian.





From stuff at cb1inc.com  Fri Sep 28 15:01:31 2007
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:01:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins UnBound Meeting Saturday 9-29-2007
In-Reply-To: <46FD5B2D.3050005@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <46FD5B2D.3050005@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <46FD5D9B.9060905@cb1inc.com>

10:00 as in 10am?
*
*


Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:
> We are having another PenguinsUnbound.net meeting
> Saturday September 29. (this coming Saturday)
> at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
> from 10:00 to 12:00.
>
> See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
> info.
>
> I will talk about Virtualization with OpenVZ, and dip a toe into KVM
> (Kernel Virtual Machine) for a
>
> There will be time, and I would be happy to answer any and all questions.
>
> Thank, hope to see you there.
>
> ==>brian.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
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From sraun at fireopal.org  Sun Sep 30 11:56:24 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:56:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
Message-ID: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>

I'm currently using NeoMail connecting to local POP3 mailboxes, when I'm
not using Mutt (I VASTLY prefer using Mutt!).  I'm being forced to use
the webmail if I want to read mail from work - they've blocked ssh &
telnet from reaching the outside world.  I'm running into some ...
limitations of NeoMail - it doesn't thread, it doesn't have a mass 'mark
read' function that I can find.

So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail package?  As
I said, I'm currently using POP3, but could be convinced to change to
IMAP.  I'm currently running a Debian box - I can't get at it right this
moment to tell if it's etch or lenny.  Requirements are some degree of
threading (preferably using the reply-to-message-id, but I'll take by
subject), and mass action (at least mark read and move to another
folder).  I'd like something that used mboxes.

Note: use gmail/your web-mail provider of choice is NOT an option - I
want my e-mail on my storage, not someone else's!

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From florin at iucha.net  Sun Sep 30 12:37:28 2007
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:37:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <20070930173728.GU29865@iucha.net>

On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 11:56:24AM -0500, Scott Raun wrote:
> So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail package?

squirrelmail

>                                                                      As
> I said, I'm currently using POP3, but could be convinced to change to
> IMAP.  I'm currently running a Debian box - I can't get at it right this
> moment to tell if it's etch or lenny.  Requirements are some degree of
> threading (preferably using the reply-to-message-id, but I'll take by
> subject), and mass action (at least mark read and move to another
> folder).  I'd like something that used mboxes.

Why?  Maildir is much more versatile.  If you are willing and able to
host your own e-mail, IMAP is just an apt-get away.  I use dovecot on
Debian: easy to configure, can handle mail spool on a different
partition (you can get it with courier, with hacking the init scripts 
and adding symlinks), fast enough for my needs.

Give it a try, and shout if you need help.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Sun Sep 30 13:29:29 2007
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:29:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <20070930132929.5dc01242@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:56:24 -0500
"Scott Raun" <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:


> So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail
> package?  

horde/imp (http://www.horde.org)  -  used to use squirrelmail but I
don't care for it anymore and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere
interesting.

> As I said, I'm currently using POP3, but could be
> convinced to change to IMAP.  

Good move.  And I second the recommendation for maildirs.

Josh


From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Sun Sep 30 15:35:03 2007
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:35:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20070930132929.5dc01242@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
	<20070930132929.5dc01242@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <58375.192.168.0.7.1191184503.squirrel@www.flyballdogs.com>

I've been using squirrelmail for years and its been getting the job done
just fine.  I've been thinking about trying roundcubemail because its UI
seems interesting.  The only thing I'm hesitant of is that it needs a
database.  I haven't researched it enough to determine if its storing the
mail messages in the database or not. If it is, I won't bother with it.

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com


From bdunnette at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 16:23:42 2007
From: bdunnette at gmail.com (Brian Dunnette)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:23:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <e9cd5840709301423u2c56eb6ke16de349c093e5f3@mail.gmail.com>

Why not just install a web-based terminal (like ajaxterm --
http://antony.lesuisse.org/qweb/trac/wiki/AjaxTerm), and continue using
Mutt?

Just a thought...

-Brian D.

On 9/30/07, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:
>
> I'm currently using NeoMail connecting to local POP3 mailboxes, when I'm
> not using Mutt (I VASTLY prefer using Mutt!).  I'm being forced to use
> the webmail if I want to read mail from work - they've blocked ssh &
> telnet from reaching the outside world.  I'm running into some ...
> limitations of NeoMail - it doesn't thread, it doesn't have a mass 'mark
> read' function that I can find.
>
> So, what's your favorite 'install on my Linux box' webmail package?  As
> I said, I'm currently using POP3, but could be convinced to change to
> IMAP.  I'm currently running a Debian box - I can't get at it right this
> moment to tell if it's etch or lenny.  Requirements are some degree of
> threading (preferably using the reply-to-message-id, but I'll take by
> subject), and mass action (at least mark read and move to another
> folder).  I'd like something that used mboxes.
>
> Note: use gmail/your web-mail provider of choice is NOT an option - I
> want my e-mail on my storage, not someone else's!
>
> --
> Scott Raun
> sraun at fireopal.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org  Sun Sep 30 16:25:29 2007
From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (jkey)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:25:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic25g-00087t-As@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <47001449.6030508@tomobiki.dyndns.org>

I use twig from http://informationgateway.org

Joseph




From sraun at fireopal.org  Sun Sep 30 17:46:55 2007
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:46:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
Message-ID: <E1Ic7Yt-0000fY-Fe@fireagate.fireopal.org>

Brian Dunnette replied:
> Why not just install a web-based terminal (like ajaxterm --
> http://antony.lesuisse.org/qweb/trac/wiki/AjaxTerm), and continue 
> using Mutt?

Because I didn't know about AjaxTerm (or any equivalents) before?  I
_like_ that idea - I'll check it out!  And there are even Debian
packages for it!

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From drue at therub.org  Sun Sep 30 20:52:15 2007
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:52:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Webmail recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <E1Ic7Yt-0000fY-Fe@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1Ic7Yt-0000fY-Fe@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <20071001015215.GG50703@therub.org>

On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 05:46:55PM -0500, Scott Raun wrote:
> Brian Dunnette replied:
> > Why not just install a web-based terminal (like ajaxterm --
> > http://antony.lesuisse.org/qweb/trac/wiki/AjaxTerm), and continue 
> > using Mutt?
> 
> Because I didn't know about AjaxTerm (or any equivalents) before?  I
> _like_ that idea - I'll check it out!  And there are even Debian
> packages for it!

Why not just run SSH on an allowed port (maybe you're not already using
443?)

Also - fwiw, I'm planning on switching from squirrelmail to roundcube
PDQ.

Dan