From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Dec  1 00:48:10 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 00:48:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] sending commands to multiple windows
In-Reply-To: <200811302233.42429.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <b03472520811271900w254784d0n8068e431b27e06fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<200811302233.42429.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812010037280.5522@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008, Jeremy wrote:

> Check out Capistrano.  It's used in the Ruby on Rails world to deploy 
> servers and updates, but it also works outside rails.
>
> You can define a set of servers and credentials, the just say
>
>  run "some_linux_command --options"
> or
>  sudo "some_linux_command --options"


I like the idea.  It is similar to what Adam and I were talking about: 
automating ssh jobs in a scripting language (in this case it is Ruby).  I 
like that and I work with a good Ruby and RoR programmer.  On the other 
hand, it it looks like it requires quite a bit of work to get things 
going:

http://www.capify.org/getting-started/from-the-beginning

I'm sure we'll be studying that one closely though.

Mike


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Mon Dec  1 10:00:46 2008
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:00:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] sending commands to multiple windows
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812010037280.5522@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <b03472520811271900w254784d0n8068e431b27e06fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<200811302233.42429.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812010037280.5522@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200812011000.46864.tclug@lizakowski.com>

> http://www.capify.org/getting-started/from-the-beginning

Those steps are complicated because it include the steps to install a ruby on 
rails application, configure it, and deploy it.

I thought you could run capistrano outside rails, but maybe not.  I've always 
had a rails app :)

On Monday 01 December 2008 12:48:10 am Mike Miller wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008, Jeremy wrote:
> > Check out Capistrano.  It's used in the Ruby on Rails world to deploy
> > servers and updates, but it also works outside rails.
> >
> > You can define a set of servers and credentials, the just say
> >
> >  run "some_linux_command --options"
> > or
> >  sudo "some_linux_command --options"
>
> I like the idea.  It is similar to what Adam and I were talking about:
> automating ssh jobs in a scripting language (in this case it is Ruby).  I
> like that and I work with a good Ruby and RoR programmer.  On the other
> hand, it it looks like it requires quite a bit of work to get things
> going:
>
> http://www.capify.org/getting-started/from-the-beginning
>
> I'm sure we'll be studying that one closely though.
>
> Mike




From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Dec  1 11:45:36 2008
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:45:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200812011745.mB1Hjac16176@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 512MB PC2-5300 SODIMM (2 sticks)

2 sticks of 512MB (1GB total) PC2-5300 SODIMM (notebook) memory that I no longer need. Asking $20 for both.

Hynix HYMP564S64CP6-Y5


Seller Email address: tclug at jfoo dot org

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From ai9nl at arrl.net  Thu Dec  4 22:22:36 2008
From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 04:22:36 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Linus
In-Reply-To: <A2EEA20794554580A171A07CDC630AE2@PCdeDallas>
References: <A2EEA20794554580A171A07CDC630AE2@PCdeDallas>
Message-ID: <6a470a5f0812042022j870747yd908195a6f6291ce@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bruce Hoff <BruceLH at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 3:55 AM
Subject: Linus
To: Harv Nelson <ai9nl at arrl.net>





*It's Linux - or Else - in Parts of China*
Authorities in the southeastern Chinese city of Nanchang are requiring
all local Internet cafes to replace their Microsoft Windows XP operating
systems with a Chinese-made system, Red Flag Linux, according to
officials and Internet cafe owners. An official with the Nanchang
Cultural Discipline Team said the new operating systems were mandatory.
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/65362.html<http://www.technewsworld.com/story/65362.html?u=BruceLH&p=ENNSS_1447b2be347fe483575429cf906492e9>
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Dec  5 01:24:59 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 01:24:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Linus
In-Reply-To: <6a470a5f0812042022j870747yd908195a6f6291ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A2EEA20794554580A171A07CDC630AE2@PCdeDallas>
	<6a470a5f0812042022j870747yd908195a6f6291ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812050124180.4685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>


> *It's Linux - or Else - in Parts of China*
> Authorities in the southeastern Chinese city of Nanchang are requiring
> all local Internet cafes to replace their Microsoft Windows XP operating
> systems with a Chinese-made system, Red Flag Linux, according to
> officials and Internet cafe owners. An official with the Nanchang
> Cultural Discipline Team said the new operating systems were mandatory.


I hope people will read the rest of it...

> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/65362.html


It gets pretty interesting.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Fri Dec  5 08:35:20 2008
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 08:35:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Thugs demand protection money Was: Linus
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812050124180.4685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <A2EEA20794554580A171A07CDC630AE2@PCdeDallas>
	<6a470a5f0812042022j870747yd908195a6f6291ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812050124180.4685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20081205143520.GX20101@iris.iucha.org>

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 01:24:59AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> > *It's Linux - or Else - in Parts of China*
> > Authorities in the southeastern Chinese city of Nanchang are requiring
> > all local Internet cafes to replace their Microsoft Windows XP operating
> > systems with a Chinese-made system, Red Flag Linux, according to
> > officials and Internet cafe owners. An official with the Nanchang
> > Cultural Discipline Team said the new operating systems were mandatory.
> 
> I hope people will read the rest of it...
> 
> > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/65362.html
> 
> It gets pretty interesting.

The title is bad, but the abstract is illuminating:

   Authorities in the Chinese city of Nanchang are compelling the city's
   Internet cafes to replace their Windows operating systems with Red
   Flag Linux -- and charging them about $726 for it as well. Some cafe
   owners are closing down rather than comply.

It's just some thugs shaking down businesses.

Cheers,
florin

PS: Why is 'Linus' the Subject to the original post?  Is he the
enforcer, or getting any royalties?

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From dave at sherohman.org  Fri Dec  5 12:10:35 2008
From: dave at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:10:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Thugs demand protection money Was: Linus
In-Reply-To: <20081205143520.GX20101@iris.iucha.org>
References: <A2EEA20794554580A171A07CDC630AE2@PCdeDallas>
	<6a470a5f0812042022j870747yd908195a6f6291ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812050124180.4685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081205143520.GX20101@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <20081205181035.GB13854@sherohman.org>

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 08:35:20AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote:
> The title is bad, but the abstract is illuminating:
> 
>    Authorities in the Chinese city of Nanchang are compelling the city's
>    Internet cafes to replace their Windows operating systems with Red
>    Flag Linux -- and charging them about $726 for it as well. Some cafe
>    owners are closing down rather than comply.
> 
> It's just some thugs shaking down businesses.

    The move to Linux is an effort to tighten censorship and step up
    surveillance online, said Xiao Qiang, director of the China Internet
    Project at the University of California-Berkeley.

    "It mainly means [a] less secure and private communication
    environment for netizens in those Internet cafes," Xiao said. "The
    authorities are gaining more control."

Yeowch...  I have a feeling that, if this article is spread widely,
these assertions will become standard anti-Linux FUD rather than
recognizing that they apply only (if at all) to Red Flag Linux, not to
Linux in general.

-- 
Dave Sherohman
NomadNet, Inc.
http://nomadnetinc.com/


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Fri Dec  5 13:26:44 2008
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:26:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Thugs demand protection money Was: Linus
In-Reply-To: <20081205181035.GB13854@sherohman.org>
References: <A2EEA20794554580A171A07CDC630AE2@PCdeDallas>	<6a470a5f0812042022j870747yd908195a6f6291ce@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812050124180.4685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>	<20081205143520.GX20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<20081205181035.GB13854@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <49398074.4020904@umn.edu>

Dave Sherohman wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 08:35:20AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote:
>   
>> The title is bad, but the abstract is illuminating:
>>
>>    Authorities in the Chinese city of Nanchang are compelling the city's
>>    Internet cafes to replace their Windows operating systems with Red
>>    Flag Linux -- and charging them about $726 for it as well. Some cafe
>>    owners are closing down rather than comply.
>>
>> It's just some thugs shaking down businesses.
>>     
>
>     The move to Linux is an effort to tighten censorship and step up
>     surveillance online, said Xiao Qiang, director of the China Internet
>     Project at the University of California-Berkeley.
>
>     "It mainly means [a] less secure and private communication
>     environment for netizens in those Internet cafes," Xiao said. "The
>     authorities are gaining more control."
>
> Yeowch...  I have a feeling that, if this article is spread widely,
> these assertions will become standard anti-Linux FUD rather than
> recognizing that they apply only (if at all) to Red Flag Linux, not to
> Linux in general.
>
>   
To avoid that stigma, we can call it GNU/Red Flag Linux


From florin at iucha.net  Fri Dec  5 15:27:09 2008
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:27:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Thugs demand protection money Was: Linus
In-Reply-To: <20081205181035.GB13854@sherohman.org>
References: <A2EEA20794554580A171A07CDC630AE2@PCdeDallas>
	<6a470a5f0812042022j870747yd908195a6f6291ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812050124180.4685@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081205143520.GX20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<20081205181035.GB13854@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <20081205212709.GY20101@iris.iucha.org>

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 12:10:35PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 08:35:20AM -0600, Florin Iucha wrote:
> > The title is bad, but the abstract is illuminating:
> > 
> >    Authorities in the Chinese city of Nanchang are compelling the city's
> >    Internet cafes to replace their Windows operating systems with Red
> >    Flag Linux -- and charging them about $726 for it as well. Some cafe
> >    owners are closing down rather than comply.
> > 
> > It's just some thugs shaking down businesses.
> 
>     The move to Linux is an effort to tighten censorship and step up
>     surveillance online, said Xiao Qiang, director of the China Internet
>     Project at the University of California-Berkeley.

No, it is not.  Since they are "installing" Linux at a greater cost
than the businesses _pay_ for WindowsXP at retail, they could mandate
that they only install a special slipstreamed edition with
$chinese_three_ideogram_agency keys near the NSA keys and everybody
would be just as happy (including BillG, whose coin counter would turn
a few more times as well).

>     "It mainly means [a] less secure and private communication
>     environment for netizens in those Internet cafes," Xiao said. "The
>     authorities are gaining more control."
> 
> Yeowch...  I have a feeling that, if this article is spread widely,
> these assertions will become standard anti-Linux FUD rather than
> recognizing that they apply only (if at all) to Red Flag Linux, not to
> Linux in general.

It's as relevant as and article pointing out that the guys who are
soaping your car at the stoplight just switched to using 3M and Windex
products.  But who knows, it might fly.  "Buy American!  Buy
Microsoft!"

Oh, brother...
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Dec  8 16:39:51 2008
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:39:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200812082239.mB8Mdpk06646@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 512MB laptop memory

1 stick 512 MB laptop memory pulled from a working Thinkpad T42.
IBM FRU: 319833
512MB DDR PC2700 CL 2.5
Samsung M470L6524BT0-CB3
This may work in other brands of laptops.  That is up to you to determine.

$25 CASH ONLY.
Email to arrange pickup in S Minneapolis or Bloomington.

Seller Email address: blackcrow77 at yahoo dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Dec 19 18:09:59 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:09:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] converting (t)csh to bash (both initializtion files
	and scripts)
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812191806520.25033@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

Though not perfect, this actually helps quite a bit with the 
initialization files:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.3/bash-29/bash/examples/misc/cshtobash

It seems to do a good job on tcsh aliases that need to be converted to 
bash functions.

I will eventually want to convert many of my simple tcsh scripts to bash 
because I want to write everything in bash, so when I modify a script, 
I'll want to convert it to bash and then work on it.  For my simple 
scripts, this is usually pretty easy because there aren't too many 
shell-specific commands.

In fact, it looks like the perl script below, that I just wrote, does a 
good job on *my* tcsh scripts which tend to use foreach loops quite a bit 
and nothing else fancy.  Of course, it is not a complete general-purpose 
conversion script and it will not do everything that people might need 
done.  For some of my tcsh scripts though, it converts them to bash, and 
they run correctly without further editing.  It should work for both csh 
and tcsh scripts (but, again, there is a lot that it won't do).

Have any of you done this kind of thing before?  Let me know if you know 
of code for converting scripts or have ideas on how to make the thing 
below do more or work better.

Best,
Mike

-------------begin perl script on next line---------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl -p

# changes shebang line to bash path
s@^#\! */.*csh.*$@#!/usr/bin/bash@ ; \

# translates "foreach foo" to "for foo in" and uses "$()" instead of "``"
s/foreach (.+?) +\( *\140(.+?)\140 *\)/for $1 in \$($2) ; do/g ; \

# translates "foreach foo" to "for foo in" when backtick isn't used
s/foreach (.+?) +\( *(.+?) *\)/for $1 in $2 ; do/g ; \

# uses "$()" instead of "``"
s/\140(.+?)\140/\$($1)/g ; \

# changes "set" to "export"
s/\bset(\s)/export$1/ ; \

# changes "end" to "done" for ending "for(each) loops"
s/\bend(\s)/done$1/
-------------end perl script on previous line---------------------


From gabe at msi.umn.edu  Mon Dec 22 11:30:17 2008
From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:30:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] converting (t)csh to bash (both initializtion
	files and scripts)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812191806520.25033@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812191806520.25033@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20081222173017.GF13912@blackice.msi.umn.edu>

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 06:09:59PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
[snip]
> Have any of you done this kind of thing before?  Let me know if you know 
> of code for converting scripts or have ideas on how to make the thing 
> below do more or work better.

I don't know about your scripts, but most of the ones I write have a bunch
of if statements and cases in them.  Such statements can be a bit tricky in
bash at first due to all of the implicit typing.  A few pointers:

if [[ ... ]]; # this is a conditional expression

    Example:

	if [[ $foo == "bar" ]]; then echo $foo; fi

if (( ... )); # this is an arithmetic expression 

    Example:

	if (( $num < 10 )); then echo "Oops!"; exit; fi

(( )) is also a nice way to do boolean conditions in bash, I've found.
let's say you want to exit if a command has failed:

    mv foo bar;

    if (($?)); then "Couldn't rename foo!"; exit 1; fi

$? is the exit status of the last command run.  If it's 0, i.e. the last
command exited without error, the if will be false.

HTH,

Gabe


-- 
Gabe Turner                                             gabe at msi.umn.edu
UNIX System Administrator,
University of Minnesota
Supercomputing Institute                          http://www.msi.umn.edu


From kevin at amazingserviceguy.com  Mon Dec 22 21:03:03 2008
From: kevin at amazingserviceguy.com (Kevin Stirtz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:03:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] looking for Linux advisor
Message-ID: <cd1a97c20812221903k11824bb2hf2909ddbb8ee7240@mail.gmail.com>

I am moving my website from a managed shared hosting environment to an
unmanaged VPS.  Since I'm a linux noob I need some help getting it
setup and secure. I'll be running two wordpress sites.

This should be a snap for an experienced linux admin.

Also, once it's up and running, I'd like to discuss an ongoing
advising,consulting role. Maybe a few hours a month (if even).

If you're a linux expert and you're looking for a few spare bucks for
some spare time work, please drop me a note.

Thanks!





Kevin Stirtz
The Amazing Service Guy
http://www.AmazingServiceGuy.com
952-212-4681

Author of: "More Loyal Customers: 21 Real World Lessons to Keep Your
Customers Coming Back"


From kevin at stirtzgroup.com  Mon Dec 22 21:30:28 2008
From: kevin at stirtzgroup.com (Kevin Stirtz)
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:30:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] looking for Linux advisor
In-Reply-To: <cd1a97c20812221903k11824bb2hf2909ddbb8ee7240@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cd1a97c20812221903k11824bb2hf2909ddbb8ee7240@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cd1a97c20812221930o7d262bbdp7e6a4904ad36d3e0@mail.gmail.com>

I am moving my website from a managed shared hosting environment to an
unmanaged VPS.  Since I'm a linux noob I need some help getting it
setup and secure. I'll be running two wordpress sites.

This should be a snap for an experienced linux admin.

Also, once it's up and running, I'd like to discuss an ongoing
advising,consulting role. Maybe a few hours a month (if even).

If you're a linux expert and you're looking for a few spare bucks for
some spare time work, please drop me a note.

Thanks!





Kevin Stirtz
The Amazing Service Guy
http://www.AmazingServiceGuy.com
952-212-4681

Author of: "More Loyal Customers: 21 Real World Lessons to Keep Your
Customers Coming Back"


From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com  Tue Dec 23 05:37:07 2008
From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:37:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20081223045618.02685fd8@pop.mm.com>

Previous reports of Linux imminent death have proven 
exaggerated.  For that matter, the same can be said of 
Windows.  Eventually, I expect, one of these stopped clocks will 
prove accurate.  Here's another.  (Also, my first encounter with the 
term "netbook".)

--

WINDOWS 7: THE LINUX KILLER
By Preston Gralla / Computerworld / December 22, 2008
http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/12/22/Windows_7_The_Linux_killer_1.html

Microsoft is finally taking Linux seriously as a desktop operating 
system, and it has designed Windows 7 to kill it

Excerpts:

The threat to Windows comes entirely from "netbooks" -- lightweight, 
inexpensive laptops that typically use Intel's low-powered Atom 
processor and don't come with substantial amounts of RAM or powerful 
graphics processors.  They're designed mainly for browsing the Web, 
handling e-mail, writing memos, and taking care of simple 
word-processing or spreadsheet chores.

Netbooks will account for about a third of all PC growth this year, 
according to Citigroup.  Shipments will rise at an annual average 
rate of 60 percent to reach 29 million netbooks in 2010, compared 
with 18 percent growth for standard notebooks....

When Windows 7 ships, expect a massive marketing blitz pushing it on 
netbooks with special deals, and netbook hardware taking advantage of 
Windows 7 capabilities, including touch screens. ...

Despite Microsoft's killer instincts, I don't think Linux netbook 
sales will stop dead.  There will always be a niche for them.  But 
within a year of the Windows 7 launch, Linux market share will 
drop.  The high point for Linux netbook sales will be from now until 
the launch of Windows 7. After that will come the inevitable decline.



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 23 11:12:17 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:12:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] converting (t)csh to bash (both initializtion
 files and scripts)
In-Reply-To: <20081222173017.GF13912@blackice.msi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812191806520.25033@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081222173017.GF13912@blackice.msi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231050510.2586@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008, Gabe Turner wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 06:09:59PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> [snip]
>> Have any of you done this kind of thing before?  Let me know if you know
>> of code for converting scripts or have ideas on how to make the thing
>> below do more or work better.
>
> I don't know about your scripts, but most of the ones I write have a 
> bunch of if statements and cases in them.  Such statements can be a bit 
> tricky in bash at first due to all of the implicit typing.  A few 
> pointers:
>
> if [[ ... ]]; # this is a conditional expression
>
>    Example:
>
> 	if [[ $foo == "bar" ]]; then echo $foo; fi
>
> if (( ... )); # this is an arithmetic expression
>
>    Example:
>
> 	if (( $num < 10 )); then echo "Oops!"; exit; fi
>
> (( )) is also a nice way to do boolean conditions in bash, I've found.
> let's say you want to exit if a command has failed:
>
>    mv foo bar;
>
>    if (($?)); then "Couldn't rename foo!"; exit 1; fi
>
> $? is the exit status of the last command run.  If it's 0, i.e. the last 
> command exited without error, the if will be false.


Thanks, Gabe.

I didn't use many "if" statements in my tcsh scripts though I have used 
them more often in bash scripts, so my need to translate "if" from tcsh to 
bash is not strong, but I might add a few lines to my little translator. 
See man page sections below.  I could at least change "else if" to "elif", 
put semicolons in the right places, change "endif" to "fi" and a few other 
things to make it easier to convert.

Thanks for the idea.  I suppose there are also "while" loops to deal with.

P.S. I don't suppose "tcsh" stands for "Twin Cities SHell"?!  OK, I know 
it doesn't.  The "c" stands for "C" and the "t" stands for "TENEX."

Best,
Mike


TCSH:

      if (expr) command
              If expr (an expression, as described  under  Expres-
              sions)  evaluates  true,  then  command is executed.
              Variable substitution on command happens  early,  at
              the  same  time  it  does  for  the  rest  of the if
              command.  command must be a simple command,  not  an
              alias, a pipeline, a command list or a parenthesized
              command   list,   but   it   may   have   arguments.
              Input/output  redirection  occurs  even  if  expr is
              false and command is thus not executed;  this  is  a
              bug.

      if (expr) then
      ...
      else if (expr2) then
      ...
      else
      ...
      endif   If the specified expr is true then the  commands  to
              the  first  else are executed; otherwise if expr2 is
              true then the commands to the second else  are  exe-
              cuted,  etc.  Any number of else-if pairs are possi-
              ble; only one endif is needed.   The  else  part  is
              likewise  optional.   (The words else and endif must
              appear at the beginning of input lines; the if  must
              appear alone on its input line or after an else.)


BASH:

        if list; then list; [ elif list; then list; ] ... [ else list; ] fi
               The if list is executed.  If its exit status is  zero,  the
               then  list  is executed.  Otherwise, each elif list is exe-
               cuted in turn, and if its exit status is zero,  the  corre-
               sponding  then  list is executed and the command completes.
               Otherwise, the else list is executed, if present.  The exit
               status  is the exit status of the last command executed, or
               zero if no condition tested true.


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 23 11:23:22 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:23:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20081223045618.02685fd8@pop.mm.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20081223045618.02685fd8@pop.mm.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231112560.2586@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Dean.Benjamin at mm.com wrote:

> Previous reports of Linux imminent death have proven exaggerated.  For 
> that matter, the same can be said of Windows.  Eventually, I expect, one 
> of these stopped clocks will prove accurate.  Here's another.  (Also, my 
> first encounter with the term "netbook".)

Right.  These changes are gradual.  There is no chance that a $500 billion 
behemoth will simply lie down and die.  They have the resources to promote 
their products and they will do so.  The fact that Windows is a crappy OS 
(especially Vista) proves just how powerful Microsoft is and how hard it 
will be to replace them on the desktop.  GNU/Linux doesn't have the 
self-promotional resources to top Windows, and what resources they do have 
are divided between 100 or so different distros.  Obviously, GNU/Linux 
isn't going away either, but for entirely different reasons.  To catch up 
to MS, GNU/Linux will have to be vastly and obviously superior to Windows 
in almost every way.  That might not happen because Microsoft will improve 
their product if they are forced to do so.

At this time, Microsoft's strongest competitors in the OS market are 
earlier versions of their product.  Knowing that future releases will have 
to compete with current releases, Microsoft's incentive is to produce a 
crappy product now, and so they do.  If GNU/Linux starts to eat enough MS 
market share, MS will use some of their $500 billion to improve their OS 
to a point where everyday users will prefer it to GNU/Linux.

Mike


> --
>
> WINDOWS 7: THE LINUX KILLER
> By Preston Gralla / Computerworld / December 22, 2008
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/12/22/Windows_7_The_Linux_killer_1.html


From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 23 13:51:12 2008
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:51:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231112560.2586@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:23 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
>
>
> At this time, Microsoft's strongest competitors in the OS market are
> earlier versions of their product.  Knowing that future releases will have
> to compete with current releases, Microsoft's incentive is to produce a
> crappy product now, and so they do.  If GNU/Linux starts to eat enough MS
> market share, MS will use some of their $500 billion to improve their OS
> to a point where everyday users will prefer it to GNU/Linux.
>
> Mike

The "upgrades" I've been getting from Microsoft over the last year seem to break various features of legacy stuff like my Office Pro
97, OutLook 2000, and IE6.  I see two types of failures as a result.  The most annoying is a failure to keep history files and
preferences, so the application no longer remembers recent and previous file names, and forgets some personalization settings.
System Restore Points have recovered those so far, but nothing else has.  The other failure is that an app will just freeze for no
apparent reason, and upon closing that window, I get a "would you like to report this serious error" message that includes an
explanation that I should upgrade to newer versions.  Don't have a cure for these freezes, but they don't happen often enough to be
a big nuisance - yet.  I always tell in the optional report, that there is no improvement in a Microsoft "upgrade", and will upgrade
to Open Office, etc as the Microsoft stuff degrades further.  I also include that I have no intent ever to use Vista or IE7, and
will switch entirely to Linux because of the lack of real support and quality.

I'm lots closer to making the complete switch to Linux.. but haven't yet.


Chuck



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 23 14:03:39 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:03:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Chuck Cole wrote:

> The "upgrades" I've been getting from Microsoft over the last year seem 
> to break various features of legacy stuff...

I know.  But it also happens in the GNU/Linux world.  I just had a note on 
my Ubuntu desktop machine telling me I had to reboot (that is not good 
because I should almost never have to reboot and it is a big hassle).  So 
I rebooted and Gnome would not come back up.  It said that it couldn't 
find pulse-session.  Well, that's because I uninstalled it. 
Unfortunately, the uninstaller didn't know to delete one of the X11 
initialization files.  I had no idea what was going on but I happened to 
know a few tricks that I learned recently.  So I started with...

Ctrl-Alt-F1

...which gave me a text-based command line.  Then I did this...

lynx http://google.com/

...and googled a bit.  This led me to the conclusion that I needed to do 
this...

sudo rm /etc/X11/Xsession.d/70pulseaudio
sudo shutdown -r now

...which solved my problem.

It was a small problem, but the effect would have been devastating if I 
was lacking just a little bit of knowledge.  An newer newbie would have 
had a heck of a time.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Dec 23 14:41:34 2008
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:41:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 02:03:39PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> > The "upgrades" I've been getting from Microsoft over the last year seem 
> > to break various features of legacy stuff...
> 
> I know.  But it also happens in the GNU/Linux world.  I just had a note on 
> my Ubuntu desktop machine telling me I had to reboot (that is not good 
> because I should almost never have to reboot and it is a big hassle).  So 
> I rebooted and Gnome would not come back up.  It said that it couldn't 
> find pulse-session.  Well, that's because I uninstalled it. 
> Unfortunately, the uninstaller didn't know to delete one of the X11 
> initialization files.  I had no idea what was going on but I happened to 
> know a few tricks that I learned recently.  So I started with...

There is a difference between that kind of bug, and the kind of
bugging that Micrsoft and others (Quicken is my notable example)
employ, in other to force you to part with your cash in the hope of
keeping things working.

> Ctrl-Alt-F1
> 
> ...which gave me a text-based command line.  Then I did this...
> 
> lynx http://google.com/
> 
> ...and googled a bit.  This led me to the conclusion that I needed to do 
> this...
> 
> sudo rm /etc/X11/Xsession.d/70pulseaudio
> sudo shutdown -r now
> 
> ...which solved my problem.
> 
> It was a small problem, but the effect would have been devastating if I 
> was lacking just a little bit of knowledge.  An newer newbie would have 
> had a heck of a time.

A newbie who goes around uninstalling things will get his comeuppance.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 23 15:25:32 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:25:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 02:03:39PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
>>> The "upgrades" I've been getting from Microsoft over the last year seem
>>> to break various features of legacy stuff...
>>
>> I know.  But it also happens in the GNU/Linux world.  I just had a note 
>> on my Ubuntu desktop machine telling me I had to reboot (that is not 
>> good because I should almost never have to reboot and it is a big 
>> hassle).  So I rebooted and Gnome would not come back up.  It said that 
>> it couldn't find pulse-session.  Well, that's because I uninstalled it. 
>> Unfortunately, the uninstaller didn't know to delete one of the X11 
>> initialization files.  I had no idea what was going on but I happened 
>> to know a few tricks that I learned recently.  So I started with...
>
> There is a difference between that kind of bug, and the kind of bugging 
> that Micrsoft and others (Quicken is my notable example) employ, in 
> other to force you to part with your cash in the hope of keeping things 
> working.

They may do it intentionally, but I'm not sure that we can prove it. 
Clearly the Ubuntu folks didn't mess up my system intentionally.


> A newbie who goes around uninstalling things will get his comeuppance.

In my case, the sound card didn't work until I uninstalled pulse audio. 
So the newbie on my system would have had a comeuppance either way.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Dec 23 15:59:03 2008
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:59:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:25:32PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> > A newbie who goes around uninstalling things will get his comeuppance.
> 
> In my case, the sound card didn't work until I uninstalled pulse audio. 
> So the newbie on my system would have had a comeuppance either way.

Hopefully the newbie with your system/hardware problem will read a
few threads on the forums, or ask in the IRC, and hopefully whomever
suggests a newbie to do X, has done it already and knows the pitfalls
and how to recover from them.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From thecubic at thecubic.net  Tue Dec 23 17:45:13 2008
From: thecubic at thecubic.net (Dave Carlson)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:45:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>	<20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <49517809.1070701@thecubic.net>

Or, ideally, the newbie with the exact same problem will search the
Ubuntu bug list, noting their similarity to a bug that was filed that
included your workaround and relevant discussion.

-Dave

Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:25:32PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
>   
>>> A newbie who goes around uninstalling things will get his comeuppance.
>>>       
>> In my case, the sound card didn't work until I uninstalled pulse audio. 
>> So the newbie on my system would have had a comeuppance either way.
>>     
>
> Hopefully the newbie with your system/hardware problem will read a
> few threads on the forums, or ask in the IRC, and hopefully whomever
> suggests a newbie to do X, has done it already and knows the pitfalls
> and how to recover from them.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 23 18:37:37 2008
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:37:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEMJCMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:04 PM
>
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > The "upgrades" I've been getting from Microsoft over the last year seem
> > to break various features of legacy stuff...
>
> I know.  But it also happens in the GNU/Linux world.  I just had a note on
> my Ubuntu desktop machine telling me I had to reboot (that is not good
> because I should almost never have to reboot and it is a big hassle).  So
> I rebooted and Gnome would not come back up.  It said that it couldn't
> find pulse-session.  Well, that's because I uninstalled it.
> Unfortunately, the uninstaller didn't know to delete one of the X11
> initialization files.  I had no idea what was going on but I happened to
> know a few tricks that I learned recently.  So I started with...
>
<snipped>

> ...which solved my problem.
>
> It was a small problem, but the effect would have been devastating if I
> was lacking just a little bit of knowledge.  An newer newbie would have
> had a heck of a time.

I have had similar problems with Ubuntu and would have been stumped by that, BUT I have several computers and know that solutions
are "not hard to find" in Linux while they will be hard to find and may be nearly impossible to fully reverse in Windows.


Chuck



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 23 18:59:54 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:59:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231858200.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:25:32PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>>> A newbie who goes around uninstalling things will get his comeuppance.
>>
>> In my case, the sound card didn't work until I uninstalled pulse audio. 
>> So the newbie on my system would have had a comeuppance either way.
>
> Hopefully the newbie with your system/hardware problem will read a few 
> threads on the forums, or ask in the IRC, and hopefully whomever 
> suggests a newbie to do X, has done it already and knows the pitfalls 
> and how to recover from them.


In my case, I was able to use Lynx from the text-based command line, but I 
think most noobs would have to borrow someone elses computer to look 
things up -- when Gnome fails, you can't open your web browser.  It would 
be huge hassle for most people.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 23 19:01:14 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:01:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <49517809.1070701@thecubic.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<49517809.1070701@thecubic.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231900150.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Dave Carlson wrote:

> Or, ideally, the newbie with the exact same problem will search the 
> Ubuntu bug list, noting their similarity to a bug that was filed that 
> included your workaround and relevant discussion.

And he'll do it using someone else's computer because Gnome isn't working 
and he can't open Firefox.  Then he'll have to write down a few possible 
solutions and hope that one of them works when he gets home.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 23 19:03:18 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:03:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEMJCMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEMJCMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231901310.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Chuck Cole wrote:

> I have had similar problems with Ubuntu and would have been stumped by 
> that, BUT I have several computers and know that solutions are "not hard 
> to find" in Linux while they will be hard to find and may be nearly 
> impossible to fully reverse in Windows.

So far, so good with Ubuntu.  That problem this morning was very minor for 
me.  If one program stopped working in Windows, I guess I'd have to roll 
back one or more of the updates.  But I hate Windows and am super happy to 
now have it in a little Virtual Box on my excellent Ubuntu machine.

Mike


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Dec 23 20:15:44 2008
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:15:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231900150.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net><alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu><20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org><alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu><20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org><49517809.1070701@thecubic.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231900150.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <0F63065DD661460CA52A235AD30E246D@usicorp.usinternet.com>

I would imagine worst case scenario he could boot off a LiveCD which is easy
for anyone to do while at home. At least with Linux/BSD when it fails to
completely boot and load all your fancy GUI stuff you have other
capabilities (whether or not you are aware of what is available) which is
far better than when windows fails to boot with some unremarkable STOP error
code and a dozen sets of hex codes that you can in no way save other than
pen/paper or a camera phone (I've done this before while in a data center to
go back to my workstation and research the problem). 

Then with windows your best recovery procedure is commonly recovery console
which is all command line based requiring you to do things at least as
advanced as you might have to do in a non-windows OS recovery situations.
Yes, you *might* get away with safe mode but more times than not that does
not work just the same in my experience, albeit most of the windows I deal
with is not home users / or workstations. I can walk thru a corrupted
windows registry file recovery via recovery console in my sleep practically
now a days.

Anywho... top post rules! Lookout! (or is it called Outlook?) 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:01 PM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Dave Carlson wrote:

> Or, ideally, the newbie with the exact same problem will search the 
> Ubuntu bug list, noting their similarity to a bug that was filed that 
> included your workaround and relevant discussion.

And he'll do it using someone else's computer because Gnome isn't working 
and he can't open Firefox.  Then he'll have to write down a few possible 
solutions and hope that one of them works when he gets home.

Mike

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From florin at iucha.net  Tue Dec 23 23:08:33 2008
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:08:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231858200.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231858200.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20081224050833.GB20101@iris.iucha.org>

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 06:59:54PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Florin Iucha wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:25:32PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> >>> A newbie who goes around uninstalling things will get his comeuppance.
> >>
> >> In my case, the sound card didn't work until I uninstalled pulse audio. 
> >> So the newbie on my system would have had a comeuppance either way.
> >
> > Hopefully the newbie with your system/hardware problem will read a few 
> > threads on the forums, or ask in the IRC, and hopefully whomever 
> > suggests a newbie to do X, has done it already and knows the pitfalls 
> > and how to recover from them.
> 
> In my case, I was able to use Lynx from the text-based command line, but I 
> think most noobs would have to borrow someone elses computer to look 
> things up -- when Gnome fails, you can't open your web browser.  It would 
> be huge hassle for most people.

Mike,

My point was that the instructions that the newbie will receive will
look like this:

   1. (dpkg -P|rpm -e) $bad_package
   2. rm /path/to/first/forgotten/file
   3. rm /path/to/second/forgotten/file
   4. logout|reboot

So, if a newbie follows a _tested_ recipe he should be OK.
The recipe can be the uninstall script included in the package, or a
detailed set of steps in the forums or bug report.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Dec 24 00:51:55 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:51:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] console mode fonts (was "Yet another forecast of Linux
	doom")
In-Reply-To: <0F63065DD661460CA52A235AD30E246D@usicorp.usinternet.com>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net><alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu><20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org><alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu><20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org><49517809.1070701@thecubic.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231900150.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<0F63065DD661460CA52A235AD30E246D@usicorp.usinternet.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812240041540.18809@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Justin Krejci wrote:

> I would imagine worst case scenario he could boot off a LiveCD which is 
> easy for anyone to do while at home.

That's a good point.  I had the disk sitting there and I didn't even think 
of it.  Maybe I like a challenge -- and believe me, googling in lynx from 
the command line with that giant font is quite a challenge!

Which reminds me to ask a question:  Is there a way to make the font 
smaller after I do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get a text screen?  I guess that is 
actually called "console mode".  Maybe there is no interactive way to do 
it, but I'll settle for a config file.  I guess the answer is here...

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=200834&highlight=boot+console+font

...or that was was for earlier versions.  So what is the answer for 8.10 
and what fonts have you all used successfully?

Mike


From gabe at msi.umn.edu  Wed Dec 24 09:28:06 2008
From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:28:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] console mode fonts (was "Yet another forecast of
	Linux doom")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812240041540.18809@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231900150.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<0F63065DD661460CA52A235AD30E246D@usicorp.usinternet.com>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812240041540.18809@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20081224152806.GA6777@blackice.msi.umn.edu>

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:51:55AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> Which reminds me to ask a question:  Is there a way to make the font 
> smaller after I do Ctrl-Alt-F1 to get a text screen?  I guess that is 
> actually called "console mode".  Maybe there is no interactive way to do 
> it, but I'll settle for a config file.  I guess the answer is here...
> 
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=200834&highlight=boot+console+font
> 
> ...or that was was for earlier versions.  So what is the answer for 8.10 
> and what fonts have you all used successfully?

Yes, you want the vga= boot option.  Set it to 'vga=ask' to get a list of
modes your kernel supports, and then experiment (I recommend setting it
manually at each boot so that it is not hard-coded into your Grub or LILO
config, so that if it doesn't work, you can simply reboot to get back to a
working system).

Gabe
-- 
Gabe Turner                                             gabe at msi.umn.edu
UNIX System Administrator,
University of Minnesota
Supercomputing Institute                          http://www.msi.umn.edu


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Dec 24 12:24:21 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:24:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Yet another forecast of Linux doom
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231858200.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEMICMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231356120.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223204134.GZ20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231523350.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<20081223215903.GA20101@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812231858200.20056@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812241209020.5299@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Florin Iucha wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:25:32PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
>> 
>>>> A newbie who goes around uninstalling things will get his 
>>>> comeuppance.
>>> 
>>> In my case, the sound card didn't work until I uninstalled pulse 
>>> audio. So the newbie on my system would have had a comeuppance either 
>>> way.
>> 
>> Hopefully the newbie with your system/hardware problem will read a few 
>> threads on the forums, or ask in the IRC, and hopefully whomever 
>> suggests a newbie to do X, has done it already and knows the pitfalls 
>> and how to recover from them.
>
> In my case, I was able to use Lynx from the text-based command line, but 
> I think most noobs would have to borrow someone elses computer to look 
> things up -- when Gnome fails, you can't open your web browser.  It 
> would be huge hassle for most people.


In case anyone thought that "noob" was an insulting term, I would like to 
apologize to those people and explain that in my view the word "noob" is 
shorthand for "new user of (in this case) Ubuntu".  I consider myself to 
be a noob and I referred to myself as "newbie" in an earlier message.

But I'm not a GNU/Linux noob nor am I a UNIX noob.  After 20 years of 
using UNIX and GNU/Linux systems, almost always via SSH or telnet, I have 
learned many useful things that the average Ubuntu noob would not know. 
So if I came across as condescending to anyone, sorry.

Like the respondent whose message is recapped below, I believe that people 
can quickly figure out how to use lynx.  My point was that almost no noob 
would even consider the possibility that a command-line browser exists. 
Why would they?  If that's condescending, too bad.  It's just the way it 
is, or the way I think it is.  I happened to know about it (not 
surprisingly after 20 years of experience that other Ubuntu noobs wouldn't 
have) and if saying so makes me seem smug and superior, OK, but I don't 
see why it should.

I'm writing this now because I received this email note this morning in 
response to my earlier message (above):

"This seems rather condescending to me. While they may not be aware of 
lynx, I think the vast majority of 'noobs' would be more than capable of 
using it.  You're not the only one out there who's used lynx;  you're 
nothing special.

[snip other parts of exchange]

"In short, the point of my email, and you'll note that it was to *you* and 
not the list, was to offer you the point of view that your email came 
across as condescending, or otherwise unflattering.  That is all."


Mike


From gnomes60 at charter.net  Thu Dec 25 17:54:05 2008
From: gnomes60 at charter.net (The Gnome)
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 17:54:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 48, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1230228002.8740.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1230228002.8740.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <49541D1D.9060407@charter.net>

Somebody always gets offended regardless of what is said.  I'm almost 64 
and I've been building and fixing computers for the past so many years.  
Another word for noob is ignorant, of which we all are of many things, 
but that doesn't mean stupid.  Most, 95%, of my clients don't know the 
difference between a right mouse click and a left mouse click.  Most 
people I know, and I hang with some highly educated people, don't know 
that "I don't think so" and "I don't know" is the same answer and they 
are offended when you point this out to them.  If I knew the answer, I 
wouldn't be a noob/newbie/ignorant, etc..  Keep the info coming and quit 
catering to people who are so insecure that they don't know who they 
are.  I'm an ignorant assed information seeker. 



geek.at.large
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Dec 26 14:36:29 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:36:29 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

It seems that there are many nice laptop computers in the below-$600 
range.  I would like to buy one, remove the ugly Vista (if necessary) and 
install Ubuntu. I expect that there will be some tricks to getting things 
to work under Ubuntu, but some laptops are probably better than others.

So my question is this: Which new laptops are best for Ubuntu?  Have any 
of you tried the Dell laptops with pre-installed Ubuntu?

This machine looks nice...

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0295188

...but I don't see any info here...

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Gateway

...so I don't know it it will be tricky to install Ubuntu on it.

Dell has Ubuntu 8.04 laptops, and after appropriate customizations, the 
price is pretty close to that of the Gateway above.  Here's the Dell:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwpl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=segtopic~linux_3x

Adding these options...

Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)  $50
   (I think the T7250 has Intel's "Virtualization Technology" added -- is
    that worth $100?)
3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz  $50

...brings the price up to $639 (after $15 in "instant savings"), but I'm 
guessing I can add the 1 GB of RAM myself for less than $50 because 
Crucial seems to sell 2GB for $22:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Inspiron%201525

The system appears to be 64-bit, so I am assuming they will install the 
64-bit version of Ubuntu 8.04.

So maybe Dell's Inspiron 1525N with preinstalled Ubuntu 8.04 is the way to 
go right now.  Getting something that just works would be a huge pleasure.

Mike


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Dec 26 14:46:26 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:46:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's "Virtualization Technology"
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

> Dell has Ubuntu 8.04 laptops, and after appropriate customizations, the 
> price is pretty close to that of the Gateway above.  Here's the Dell:
> 
> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwpl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=segtopic~linux_3x
> 
> Adding these options...
> 
> Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)  $50


They also offer the "Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)" 
for $100 more than the T5800, but what is the difference between the T5800 
and the T7250?  Well, that information is not easy to find for some 
reason, but it seems that the T7250 supports Intel's Virtualization 
Technology while the T5800 does not.

I want to run Virtual Box with Win XP Pro in it.  So how much will the 
Virtualization Technology help me?  I'm guessing that it will help enough 
to be worth $100.  Any opinions?

Mike


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Fri Dec 26 15:09:28 2008
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:09:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's "Virtualization Technology"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <49554808.40305@umn.edu>


> They also offer the "Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)" 
> for $100 more than the T5800, but what is the difference between the T5800 
> and the T7250?  Well, that information is not easy to find for some 
> reason, but it seems that the T7250 supports Intel's Virtualization 
> Technology while the T5800 does not.
>
> I want to run Virtual Box with Win XP Pro in it.  So how much will the 
> Virtualization Technology help me?  I'm guessing that it will help enough 
> to be worth $100.  Any opinions?
>
> Mike
>
>   
The "Virtualization Technology" will not help you at all. VirtualBox by 
default disables them as they are not as efficient as whatever they're 
using - check the FAQ for more information. The only way that it would 
be $100 dollars better is if the other processor isn't a Core 2 
architecture or it is, but isn't nearly the same clock speed.


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Fri Dec 26 15:20:34 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:20:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's "Virtualization Technology"
In-Reply-To: <49554808.40305@umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<49554808.40305@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261516250.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote:

>> They also offer the "Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB 
>> cache)" for $100 more than the T5800, but what is the difference 
>> between the T5800 and the T7250?  Well, that information is not easy to 
>> find for some reason, but it seems that the T7250 supports Intel's 
>> Virtualization Technology while the T5800 does not.
>> 
>> I want to run Virtual Box with Win XP Pro in it.  So how much will the 
>> Virtualization Technology help me?  I'm guessing that it will help 
>> enough to be worth $100.  Any opinions?
>
>
> The "Virtualization Technology" will not help you at all. VirtualBox by 
> default disables them as they are not as efficient as whatever they're 
> using - check the FAQ for more information.

Do you mean the VirtualBox FAQ?  It is here...

http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/User_FAQ

...but it does not mention "Virtualization Technology" or "VT".


> The only way that it would be $100 dollars better is if the other 
> processor isn't a Core 2 architecture or it is, but isn't nearly the 
> same clock speed.

What other processor?  Are you suggesting that it is possible for one 
computer to run two CPUs with different clock speeds?

Here is what someone on another list had to say:

"Intel VT will help quite a bit - it's worth the extra $100.  VT (and 
AMD's AMD-V/SVM) are essentially hardware-assisted traps for non- 
virtualization safe instructions.  Virtualbox/VMware/whatever should be 
able to treat the virtualized CPU as just a piece of actual hardware, 
leaving the emulation of non-virt-safe instructions to the *actual* 
hardware.

"If you ever go the Xen route, and want to run a Windows VM, you'll need 
VT or AMD-V.  It's well worth the extra dough even if you don't ever touch 
Xen or other low-level VM monitors."


Obviously I will be needing more opinions.

Mike


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Fri Dec 26 15:31:08 2008
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:31:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's "Virtualization Technology"
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261516250.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>	<49554808.40305@umn.edu>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261516250.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <49554D1C.1000301@umn.edu>

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote:
>
>   
>>> They also offer the "Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB 
>>> cache)" for $100 more than the T5800, but what is the difference 
>>> between the T5800 and the T7250?  Well, that information is not easy to 
>>> find for some reason, but it seems that the T7250 supports Intel's 
>>> Virtualization Technology while the T5800 does not.
>>>
>>> I want to run Virtual Box with Win XP Pro in it.  So how much will the 
>>> Virtualization Technology help me?  I'm guessing that it will help 
>>> enough to be worth $100.  Any opinions?
>>>       
>> The "Virtualization Technology" will not help you at all. VirtualBox by 
>> default disables them as they are not as efficient as whatever they're 
>> using - check the FAQ for more information.
>>     
>
> Do you mean the VirtualBox FAQ?  It is here...
>
> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/User_FAQ
>
> ...but it does not mention "Virtualization Technology" or "VT".
>
>
>   
Sorry, it was the User Manual. I recall before Sun took over that it was 
on the FAQ.

Here is the snippet -

"By default, VirtualBox uses a technique called ?software 
virtualization? to run a virtual
machine on your guest computer. In a nutshell, this means that the code 
in the virtual
machine (the guest operating system and other programs installed in the 
virtual machine)
is allowed to run directly on the processor of the host, while 
VirtualBox employs
an array of complex techniques to intercept operations that may 
interfere with your
host.

In those cases, VirtualBox needs to step in and fake a certain ?virtual? 
environment
for the guest. For example, if the guest attempts to access its hard 
disk, VirtualBox
redirects these requests to whatever you have configured to be the 
virtual machine?s
virtual hard disk ? normally, an image file on your host.

VirtualBox has very sophisticated techniques to achieve this without any 
special
hardware. However, modern Intel and AMD processors have support for 
so-called
?hardware virtualization?.
? The virtualization technology built into AMD?s 64-bit processors is 
called ?AMDV?
(originally referred to with the ?Pacifica? codename).
In addition, starting with the Barcelona (K10) architecture, AMD?s 
processors
have been supporting nested page tables, which can accelerate hardware 
virtualization
significantly. VirtualBox added support for AMD?s nested paging with
version 2.0.
? Intel has named its hardware virtualization VT-x (it was originally 
called ?Vanderpool?).
Intel will ship support for nested page tables, then called ?Extended 
Page Tables?
(EPT), with their new Nehalem processors.
These CPUs also introduce tagged Translation Lookaside Buffers (TLBs), which
Intel calls ?Virtual Processor Identifiers? (VPID) and which reduce the 
need for
expensive TLB flushes. Both EPT and VPID are supported by VirtualBox 
starting
with version 2.1.

While VirtualBox does support the hardware features listed above, they 
are optional:
you can enable or disable hardware virtualization individiually for each 
virtual machine.
In fact, depending on the workload, VirtualBox?s software virtualization 
may even
be faster than hardware virtualization. Other virtualization products 
that require
hardware virtualization are usually much less sophisticated and tuned 
compared to
VirtualBox. With VT-x and AMD-V, a special CPU environment has to be 
entered in
order to execute guest code and whenever activity of the VMM is 
required, this environment
has to be left and then entered again. This can be an expensive operation
and in many circumstances, the benefits of hardware virtualization may 
not outweigh
the performance penalty.

On the other hand side, with hardware virtualization enabled, much less 
virtualization
code from VirtualBox needs to be executed, which can result in a more 
reliable
system. So if you run into problems, you may want to try enabling 
hardware virtualization."

>> The only way that it would be $100 dollars better is if the other 
>> processor isn't a Core 2 architecture or it is, but isn't nearly the 
>> same clock speed.
>>     
>
> What other processor?  Are you suggesting that it is possible for one 
> computer to run two CPUs with different clock speeds?
>   
I'm suggesting that the $100 price difference means there is a lower end 
processor that was part of the base version, such as AMD or lower spec 
Intel processor.
> Here is what someone on another list had to say:
>
> "Intel VT will help quite a bit - it's worth the extra $100.  VT (and 
> AMD's AMD-V/SVM) are essentially hardware-assisted traps for non- 
> virtualization safe instructions.  Virtualbox/VMware/whatever should be 
> able to treat the virtualized CPU as just a piece of actual hardware, 
> leaving the emulation of non-virt-safe instructions to the *actual* 
> hardware.
>
> "If you ever go the Xen route, and want to run a Windows VM, you'll need 
> VT or AMD-V.  It's well worth the extra dough even if you don't ever touch 
> Xen or other low-level VM monitors."
>
>
>   
I suppose saying "will not help you at all" earlier is too extreme; they 
help, but not an extra $100 sort of help.
> Obviously I will be needing more opinions.
>
> Mike
>
>   



From dniesen at gmail.com  Fri Dec 26 15:53:49 2008
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:53:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70812261353m19365c2eya76e0302cd53f091@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu> wrote:
> It seems that there are many nice laptop computers in the below-$600
> range.  I would like to buy one, remove the ugly Vista (if necessary) and
> install Ubuntu. I expect that there will be some tricks to getting things
> to work under Ubuntu, but some laptops are probably better than others.
>
> So my question is this: Which new laptops are best for Ubuntu?  Have any
> of you tried the Dell laptops with pre-installed Ubuntu?
>
> This machine looks nice...
>
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0295188
>
> ...but I don't see any info here...
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Gateway
>
> ...so I don't know it it will be tricky to install Ubuntu on it.
>
> Dell has Ubuntu 8.04 laptops, and after appropriate customizations, the
> price is pretty close to that of the Gateway above.  Here's the Dell:
>
> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwpl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=segtopic~linux_3x
>
> Adding these options...
>
> Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)  $50
>   (I think the T7250 has Intel's "Virtualization Technology" added -- is
>    that worth $100?)
> 3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz  $50
>
> ...brings the price up to $639 (after $15 in "instant savings"), but I'm
> guessing I can add the 1 GB of RAM myself for less than $50 because
> Crucial seems to sell 2GB for $22:
>
> http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Inspiron%201525
>
> The system appears to be 64-bit, so I am assuming they will install the
> 64-bit version of Ubuntu 8.04.
>
> So maybe Dell's Inspiron 1525N with preinstalled Ubuntu 8.04 is the way to
> go right now.  Getting something that just works would be a huge pleasure.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

If a big priority is Ubuntu working out of the box, check out
System76.  They've been selling Ubuntu loaded machines for longer than
Dell.  They don't have anything in the sub $600 range but their
hardware is really nice.  They put the extra effort in to make sure
things like sleep and hibernate work on their machines.

Here's their lineup:

http://system76.com/index.php?cPath=28

Oh, and it doesn't come with a Vista sticker or even a Windows key
(both replaced by Ubuntu counterparts).


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From tim.link at mchsi.com  Fri Dec 26 15:59:45 2008
From: tim.link at mchsi.com (Tim Link)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:59:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <6A3656B52F6D46849970A0928E7D3A74@link.com>

<snip>

So my question is this: Which new laptops are best for Ubuntu?  Have any

of you tried the Dell laptops with pre-installed Ubuntu?

<snip>

I just installed Ubuntu 8.10 on an IBM ThinkPad T61 with 2GB of RAM.
Everything runs great, and I was even able to get a Logitech webcam to
run on it. Not being a Linux guru like most of you, getting the webcam
to work was a big deal for me. And, I attribute the success mostly to
how easy Ubuntu 8.10 was to work with.




From c.r.troyer at usfamily.net  Fri Dec 26 16:16:24 2008
From: c.r.troyer at usfamily.net (Cyprian Troyer)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:16:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ndiswrapper user seeks abuse
Message-ID: <495558A9.6020500@usfamily.net>

*So, for months now, I've been content to use the USB connection to my 
DSL router for my internet access. But I've set myself the goal of 
getting my wireless card to work. I believe that native Linux drivers 
are not available for this wireless card, so I've downloaded and 
installed the latest version of ndiswrapper (version 1.53).  I scrounged 
up the Windows XP drivers for the wireless card and copied them to 
etc/wlan/ . This is just an arbitrary directory I set up to make things 
easy for myself. ndiswrapper is installed in the usr/ directory.
 My first question is this : ndiswrapper -v returns -

root at darkstar:/usr# ndiswrapper -v
modinfo: could not find module ndiswrapper
module version is too old!
utils version: '1.9', utils version needed by module: '0'
module details:
modinfo: could not find module ndiswrapper

You may need to upgrade driver and/or utils to latest versions available at
http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net

But this _is_  the most recent version available. What am I doing wrong?

 (According to wikipedia, the authors of ndiswrapper have not been 
answering their mail since October, so I see no help coming from there. )

Next, the -l option indicates that the driver has been loaded;

root at darkstar:/usr# ndiswrapper -l
net2g54l : driver installed
root at darkstar:/usr#


This command should also return the status of the device, that is, it 
ought to also tell me that the hardware is installed, but obviously, 
ndiswrapper thinks that it isn't installed.
That brings me to the next question. What do I need to be doing to 
introduce the wireless card to the rest of my hardware? What utilities 
can I be using to poke around the wireless card? The HAL daemon seems to 
be working just fine for my USB memory and the USB LAN connection.

This is all happening on my old Thinkpad 600, running Slackware 12.0.

root at darkstar:/usr# uname -a
Linux darkstar 2.6.21.5 #2 Tue Jun 19 15:22:48 CDT 2007 i686 Pentium II 
(Deschutes) GenuineIntel GNU/Linux



Thanks in advance,
Cyprian.

P.S. I can use this card from the Windows side of my dual boot setup 
with no trouble.
*


--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---



From dniesen at gmail.com  Fri Dec 26 16:54:36 2008
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:54:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ndiswrapper user seeks abuse
In-Reply-To: <495558A9.6020500@usfamily.net>
References: <495558A9.6020500@usfamily.net>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70812261454t2a9f6a48u7db57e566e3b5f3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Cyprian Troyer <c.r.troyer at usfamily.net> wrote:
> *So, for months now, I've been content to use the USB connection to my
> DSL router for my internet access. But I've set myself the goal of
> getting my wireless card to work. I believe that native Linux drivers
> are not available for this wireless card, so I've downloaded and
> installed the latest version of ndiswrapper (version 1.53).  I scrounged
> up the Windows XP drivers for the wireless card and copied them to
> etc/wlan/ . This is just an arbitrary directory I set up to make things
> easy for myself. ndiswrapper is installed in the usr/ directory.
>  My first question is this : ndiswrapper -v returns -
>
> root at darkstar:/usr# ndiswrapper -v
> modinfo: could not find module ndiswrapper
> module version is too old!
> utils version: '1.9', utils version needed by module: '0'
> module details:
> modinfo: could not find module ndiswrapper
>
> You may need to upgrade driver and/or utils to latest versions available at
> http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net
>
> But this _is_  the most recent version available. What am I doing wrong?
>
>  (According to wikipedia, the authors of ndiswrapper have not been
> answering their mail since October, so I see no help coming from there. )
>
> Next, the -l option indicates that the driver has been loaded;
>
> root at darkstar:/usr# ndiswrapper -l
> net2g54l : driver installed
> root at darkstar:/usr#
>
>
> This command should also return the status of the device, that is, it
> ought to also tell me that the hardware is installed, but obviously,
> ndiswrapper thinks that it isn't installed.
> That brings me to the next question. What do I need to be doing to
> introduce the wireless card to the rest of my hardware? What utilities
> can I be using to poke around the wireless card? The HAL daemon seems to
> be working just fine for my USB memory and the USB LAN connection.
>
> This is all happening on my old Thinkpad 600, running Slackware 12.0.
>
> root at darkstar:/usr# uname -a
> Linux darkstar 2.6.21.5 #2 Tue Jun 19 15:22:48 CDT 2007 i686 Pentium II
> (Deschutes) GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Cyprian.
>
> P.S. I can use this card from the Windows side of my dual boot setup
> with no trouble.
> *
>
>
> --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

Which wireless card is this?  Anything useful show up from lspci/dmesg/syslog?

Also, if you have a recent LiveCD (Knoppix/Ubuntu) it would be worth
seeing if a slightly newer kernel is able to avoid using ndiswrapper
completely.


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From haircut at gmail.com  Fri Dec 26 17:06:48 2008
From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:06:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1230332808.20819.8.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2008-12-26 at 14:36 -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> Which new laptops are best for Ubuntu?  Have any 
> of you tried the Dell laptops with pre-installed Ubuntu?

Here's a related thread from the Greater Seattle Linux Users Group
mailing list: http://tinyurl.com/92uymx

ZaReason and EmperorLinux are two companies from which I've bought
systems with GNU/Linux pre-installed. Both boast excellent hardware and
communication.

-- 
Adam Monsen
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From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Fri Dec 26 22:13:39 2008
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (Troy)
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:13:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261423210.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if a mini/netbook is an option, but the guys over at Linux
Action Show <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RySLmpoZYNA> (about 34 minutes)
claim the HP Mini<http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/mini1000/alt.html>works
great with Ubuntu.

Good Luck,

Troy

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu>wrote:

> It seems that there are many nice laptop computers in the below-$600
> range.  I would like to buy one, remove the ugly Vista (if necessary) and
> install Ubuntu. I expect that there will be some tricks to getting things
> to work under Ubuntu, but some laptops are probably better than others.
>
> So my question is this: Which new laptops are best for Ubuntu?  Have any
> of you tried the Dell laptops with pre-installed Ubuntu?
>
> This machine looks nice...
>
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0295188
>
> ...but I don't see any info here...
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Gateway
>
> ...so I don't know it it will be tricky to install Ubuntu on it.
>
> Dell has Ubuntu 8.04 laptops, and after appropriate customizations, the
> price is pretty close to that of the Gateway above.  Here's the Dell:
>
>
> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwpl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=segtopic~linux_3x<http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwpl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=segtopic%7Elinux_3x>
>
> Adding these options...
>
> Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)  $50
>   (I think the T7250 has Intel's "Virtualization Technology" added -- is
>    that worth $100?)
> 3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz  $50
>
> ...brings the price up to $639 (after $15 in "instant savings"), but I'm
> guessing I can add the 1 GB of RAM myself for less than $50 because
> Crucial seems to sell 2GB for $22:
>
> http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Inspiron%201525
>
> The system appears to be 64-bit, so I am assuming they will install the
> 64-bit version of Ubuntu 8.04.
>
> So maybe Dell's Inspiron 1525N with preinstalled Ubuntu 8.04 is the way to
> go right now.  Getting something that just works would be a huge pleasure.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From aa0p at comcast.net  Wed Dec 24 22:48:28 2008
From: aa0p at comcast.net (aa0p)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:48:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network
Message-ID: <op.umpbm2whguvyu4@aa0p-desktop>

How do I get my Linux (Ubuntu 8.10) box to print?  (It is Athlon 1Ghz  
processor & 1 Gbyte memory)

The little yellowish window periodicly states "Printer  
'Deskjet-6940-series' may not be connected"

In <system, administration, printing> then click 6940 icon and then  
<properties>
it states 'location: 198.16.0.103'
   'Device URI:  hp:/net/Deskjet_6940_series?ip=198.16.0.103'
    'Make and Model: HP Deskjet 6940 series Froom....'     "Change Driver"
I have gone thru the "Change Driver" twice and subsequently restarted  
system.

But it still doesn't get connected.

Very frustrating;  it did work last week
AND the 'Windoze" box sitting right beside, connected thru same Ethernet  
switch, does print.

Any help will be appreciated.
Steve



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From Thoth.Serath at gmail.com  Fri Dec 26 23:30:04 2008
From: Thoth.Serath at gmail.com (Thoth.Serath at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:30:04 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] re laptops for linux
Message-ID: <00032557416aa94ba6045f0088a1@google.com>

i have a dell inspiron 7500 from around 2000 that runs ubuntu great.  
hardware detection is great. i also use a hp pavillion dv1000 from around  
2005 that works great with ubuntu. i would guess you could probly pick and  
choose laptops to use. best buy has some for $299 and up that have windows  
xp home installed, i like xp over vista still, that could easily dual boot  
after a simple resize of the windows partition. i am more than happy to  
help through email, phone, or in person (i will even do it for you if  
needed; i really enjoy doing it) if you were so inclined.
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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Sat Dec 27 01:23:32 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:23:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network
In-Reply-To: <op.umpbm2whguvyu4@aa0p-desktop>
References: <op.umpbm2whguvyu4@aa0p-desktop>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812270120470.27739@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008, aa0p wrote:

> How do I get my Linux (Ubuntu 8.10) box to print?  (It is Athlon 1Ghz 
> processor & 1 Gbyte memory)
>
> The little yellowish window periodicly states "Printer
> 'Deskjet-6940-series' may not be connected"
>
> In <system, administration, printing> then click 6940 icon and then
> <properties>
> it states 'location: 198.16.0.103'
>   'Device URI:  hp:/net/Deskjet_6940_series?ip=198.16.0.103'
>    'Make and Model: HP Deskjet 6940 series Froom....'     "Change Driver"
> I have gone thru the "Change Driver" twice and subsequently restarted
> system.
>
> But it still doesn't get connected.
>
> Very frustrating;  it did work last week
> AND the 'Windoze" box sitting right beside, connected thru same Ethernet
> switch, does print.


Did the IP of the printer change?  I guess that IP is assigned by your 
router and it can change if computers and printers are turned off and 
turned back on.

I doubt that changing the driver is a good idea if it worked before with 
the driver you have.  It must be about connectivity.

Look at the Windows machine and see how it is identifying the printer on 
the network.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 27 03:48:53 2008
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 03:48:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812270120470.27739@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEMPCMAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:24 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008, aa0p wrote:
>
> > How do I get my Linux (Ubuntu 8.10) box to print?  (It is Athlon 1Ghz
> > processor & 1 Gbyte memory)
> >
> > The little yellowish window periodicly states "Printer
> > 'Deskjet-6940-series' may not be connected"
> >
> > In <system, administration, printing> then click 6940 icon and then
> > <properties>
> > it states 'location: 198.16.0.103'
> >   'Device URI:  hp:/net/Deskjet_6940_series?ip=198.16.0.103'
> >    'Make and Model: HP Deskjet 6940 series Froom....'     "Change Driver"
> > I have gone thru the "Change Driver" twice and subsequently restarted
> > system.
> >
> > But it still doesn't get connected.
> >
> > Very frustrating;  it did work last week
> > AND the 'Windoze" box sitting right beside, connected thru same Ethernet
> > switch, does print.
>
>
> Did the IP of the printer change?  I guess that IP is assigned by your
> router and it can change if computers and printers are turned off and
> turned back on.
>
> I doubt that changing the driver is a good idea if it worked before with
> the driver you have.  It must be about connectivity.
>
> Look at the Windows machine and see how it is identifying the printer on
> the network.
>
> Mike


May not be useful info, but I have setup problems in Ubuntu with a USB-connected HP F4180 DeskJet printer attached to a separate
Windows box "a".  My 3 other HP printers (one LaserJet on net, one DeskJet using parallel port on Windows box "b", one LaserJet
using parallel port on Windows box "c").

The HP USB printer has no local printing problem when directly connected to the Ubuntu laptop, but won't work for Ubuntu when on
Windows box "a".  Three of four remote printers work fine from the Ubuntu laptop.  Four of four work fine when the laptop runs
Windows.

Something is missing or not set up right in my Ubunto on that laptop, but the local setup for that printer is complete and fine.  I
haven't tried to solve this problem yet since at least 3 printers are working fine in any case.


Chuck



From auditodd at comcast.net  Sat Dec 27 10:22:36 2008
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:22:36 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network
Message-ID: <122720081622.1974.4956564C0006AAAD000007B622007623020B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net>

First question...
Is it turned on? (Yeah, I know dumb question, but I can't even count the number of times the obvious problem is the actual problem.)

Next I would follow up on the changed IP suggestion that a few have pointed out.

I logged into my HP DJ6940 when I first bought it and changed it to a static IP address so that I could always find it. Even in Windows I use the IP address of the printer to set it up, so having a static IP is a MUST for me.

Ubuntu v8.10 has automatically found both of my network printers (HP LaserJet 5si and the Deskjet 6940) and chose the correct driver on multiple installations/machines and I have not had any problems since then.

--
==========
Todd Young

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: aa0p <aa0p at comcast.net>
> How do I get my Linux (Ubuntu 8.10) box to print?  (It is Athlon 1Ghz  
> processor & 1 Gbyte memory)
> 
> The little yellowish window periodicly states "Printer  
> 'Deskjet-6940-series' may not be connected"
> 
> In <system, administration, printing> then click 6940 icon and then  
> <properties>
> it states 'location: 198.16.0.103'
>    'Device URI:  hp:/net/Deskjet_6940_series?ip=198.16.0.103'
>     'Make and Model: HP Deskjet 6940 series Froom....'     "Change Driver"
> I have gone thru the "Change Driver" twice and subsequently restarted  
> system.
> 
> But it still doesn't get connected.
> 
> Very frustrating;  it did work last week
> AND the 'Windoze" box sitting right beside, connected thru same Ethernet  
> switch, does print.
> 
> Any help will be appreciated.
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From josh at tcbug.org  Mon Dec 29 09:32:28 2008
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:32:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's "Virtualization Technology"
In-Reply-To: <49554D1C.1000301@umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>	<49554808.40305@umn.edu>	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261516250.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<49554D1C.1000301@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4958ED8C.5050302@tcbug.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Elvedin Trnjanin wrote:
> Mike Miller wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote:
>>
<huge snip of unrelated stuff>

Here's another gotchya you'll want to watch out for in laptops.  (as if
there wasn't enough already)

I was running a 32 bit OS on my last laptop (An IBM/Lenevo T60 with a
core 2 duo 1.66 ghz) which was fully capable of running a 64 bit OS.  I
was unable to virtualize 64 bit operating systems due to not being able
to enable VT in the BIOS.

You need VT support both in the actual hardware (cpu) as well as in the
BIOS in order to virtualize a 64 bit OS from a 32 bit host OS.

- --
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5ABC 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
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From florin at iucha.net  Mon Dec 29 12:52:18 2008
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:52:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's "Virtualization Technology"
In-Reply-To: <4958ED8C.5050302@tcbug.org>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<49554808.40305@umn.edu>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261516250.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<49554D1C.1000301@umn.edu> <4958ED8C.5050302@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <20081229185218.GV20101@iris.iucha.org>

On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 09:32:28AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote:
> Here's another gotchya you'll want to watch out for in laptops.  (as if
> there wasn't enough already)
> 
> I was running a 32 bit OS on my last laptop (An IBM/Lenevo T60 with a
> core 2 duo 1.66 ghz) which was fully capable of running a 64 bit OS.  I
> was unable to virtualize 64 bit operating systems due to not being able
> to enable VT in the BIOS.
> 
> You need VT support both in the actual hardware (cpu) as well as in the
> BIOS in order to virtualize a 64 bit OS from a 32 bit host OS.

The BIOS on my T60 supports virtualization just fine.  IIRC the fix
went in about two years ago, as I bought it in March 2007 and I had no
problems with virtualization out of the box.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Mon Dec 29 13:33:00 2008
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:33:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Need some help with palm bluetooth sync
Message-ID: <495925EC.9030902@mtu.net>

I'm trying to sync with the port "bt:". I had this working on my system
under opensuse 11.0 and I upgraded to 11.1 this week and now it doesn't
work. I get an error on my palm "Unable to initiate HotSync operation
because the port is in use by another application.". I really don't know
what this means and haven't found a lot of documentation about it or
using the bluetooth sync with pilot-link. I found the instructions on
using ppp over bluetooth and net:any, but nothing on using "bt:".

So does anyone have experience with this and have a list of things to
check to make sure it's all setup right on my Linux machine? In
particular does rfcomm need to be running? Is it a problem if it's
running, how about other bluetooth services.

If I use hcidump to watch the bluetooth connection I see a connection
when I try to sync my palm:
>hcidump
HCI sniffer - Bluetooth packet analyzer ver 1.42
device: hci0 snap_len: 1028 filter: 0xffffffffffffffff
> HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
< HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
> HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
> HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11

Running "pilot-xfer -l -p bt:" just sits and waits for a connection like
normal, except it doesn't pickup when the palm tries to connect.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From admin at lctn.org  Mon Dec 29 15:02:27 2008
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:02:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] restoring postgres folders
Message-ID: <49593AE3.4060703@lctn.org>

I was having trouble with an app that uses postgres on Ubuntu 8.10, so I 
removed all traces of postgres, and for good measure,I removed all 
postgres folders from /etc, thinking they would be recreated by 
reinstalling . I guessed wrong. I was able to reinstall, minus the 
necessary folders and config files in /etc. Is there a way to recreate 
the postgres folders , with the configs?


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Dec 29 16:13:37 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 16:13:37 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] restoring postgres folders
In-Reply-To: <49593AE3.4060703@lctn.org>
References: <49593AE3.4060703@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812291610290.15289@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008, Raymond Norton wrote:

> I was having trouble with an app that uses postgres on Ubuntu 8.10, so I 
> removed all traces of postgres, and for good measure,I removed all 
> postgres folders from /etc, thinking they would be recreated by 
> reinstalling . I guessed wrong. I was able to reinstall, minus the 
> necessary folders and config files in /etc. Is there a way to recreate 
> the postgres folders , with the configs?


I don't know, but I'm guessing that it detected an earlier installation 
somehow and therefore did not try to write those files.  Did you use 
synaptic and try "Mark for Complete Removal"?  Did you remove all of the 
postgresql packages?  I'm just guessing that if you remove all of all of 
it, then reinstall all of it, you'll get back what you are missing.

Mike


From admin at lctn.org  Mon Dec 29 18:42:57 2008
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:42:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] restoring postgres folders
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812291610290.15289@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <49593AE3.4060703@lctn.org>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812291610290.15289@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <49596E91.7080308@lctn.org>

 >I don't know, but I'm guessing that it detected an earlier 
installation somehow and >therefore did not try to write those files.  
Did you use synaptic and try "Mark for Complete >Removal"?  Did you 
remove all of the postgresql packages?  I'm just guessing that if you 
 >remove all of all of it, then reinstall all of it, you'll get back 
what you are missing.

Yes, I was using synaptic. It showed there were no instances of 
postgresql left. I finaly found an answer after more searching.

This will give you a clean slate:
apt-get --purge remove postgresql-8.3 postgresql-client-8.3 
postgresql-client-common postgresql-common

mv /var/lib/postgresql /var/lib/postgresql-backup
mv /etc/postgresql /etc/postgresql-backup
mv /var/log/postgresql /var/log/postgresql-backup
apt-get install postgresql-8.3 etc..

I'm back to where I started, with my problem being the new app, and a 
working instance of postgresql.


From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Tue Dec 30 01:38:15 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 01:38:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD 
rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders 
for GNU/Linux? Until now, I have been using WinXP with CDex for that 
purpose and it has performed well.  There seems to be a GNU/Linux clone of 
CDex called LCDex:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lcdex/

But it is listed as pre-alpha and inactive, so I doubt it is a good 
choice.  For me the best option might have a command-line interface, but a 
GUI is good too.

Wikipedia lists five rippers for "BSD and Linux":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_ripper#BSD_and_Linux

Asunder:	http://littlesvr.ca/asunder/
Brasero:	http://projects.gnome.org/brasero/
Grip:   	http://nostatic.org/grip/
K3B:    	http://www.k3b.org/
Sound Juicer: 	http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer

I also ran across Rubyripper, which sounds quite intriguing:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Rubyripper

But I have to think that it must be slowed down significantly by all the care 
that it puts into error correction.  It uses "cdparanoia"...

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Cdparanoia

...as do at least Asunder and Grip, and perhaps others.  I appreciate the 
effort made by these programs to get the right answer.  I just wonder if they 
are slow.  I'll probably have to test a couple of them.

A friend who uses BSD recommended cdrecord, which comes with cdda2wav for 
ripping.  "It is not too bad," he wrote, "although its CLI is quite 
detailed and takes some getting used to."

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Best,
Mike


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Dec 30 02:21:09 2008
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:21:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0812300219020.339@dragon>

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008, Mike Miller wrote:

> Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD
> rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders
> for GNU/Linux?


I've done my entire library with grip. I rip everything to FLAC, and grip 
does a freedb lookup and sticks the info in a database (although you 
should always verify freedb's info as it is occasionally terribly wrong).


When I need a quick-rip (as in, rip-and-burn or something) I just use 
cdparania.


-Yaron

--


From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 07:46:14 2008
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (Troy)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 07:46:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New notebook computer
Message-ID: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>

I'm considering purchasing the Acer Aspire
AS4730-4857<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115543>
notebook
from newegg.com, looks like a great buy.  However, I want to be able to run
Linux, preferably Ubuntu on this notebook.  Does anyone have experience
running Linux on this model, or on Acer notebooks in general?

Thanks,

Troy
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From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Tue Dec 30 08:00:57 2008
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:00:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <48f8aa8c9668fbc39d080cccaac4d2dc.squirrel@flyballdogs.com>


Mike Miller wrote:
> Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD
> rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders
> for GNU/Linux? Until now,

Grip for ripping/encoding CD's.
k3b for burning discs
k9copy for backing up dual layer DVD's to single layer.

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com
National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/donate


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Tue Dec 30 08:38:05 2008
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:38:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <48f8aa8c9668fbc39d080cccaac4d2dc.squirrel@flyballdogs.com>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<48f8aa8c9668fbc39d080cccaac4d2dc.squirrel@flyballdogs.com>
Message-ID: <1230647885.9270.1292302731@webmail.messagingengine.com>

cdparanoia works great for ripping
flac for lossless encoding in a non-proprietary format

> Mike Miller wrote:
> > Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD
> > rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders
> > for GNU/Linux? Until now,


From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Tue Dec 30 08:50:36 2008
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:50:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <200812300850.36468.bbaptist@iexposure.com>

I just went through this the other day when I found that kaudiocreator was not 
packaged for Ubuntu 8.10.  I found abcde to be an excellent CLI ripper.


http://lly.org/~rcw/abcde/page/


Bret.


On Tuesday 30 December 2008 01:38:15 am Mike Miller wrote:
> Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD
> rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders
> for GNU/Linux? Until now, I have been using WinXP with CDex for that
> purpose and it has performed well.  There seems to be a GNU/Linux clone of
> CDex called LCDex:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/lcdex/
>
> But it is listed as pre-alpha and inactive, so I doubt it is a good
> choice.  For me the best option might have a command-line interface, but a
> GUI is good too.
>
> Wikipedia lists five rippers for "BSD and Linux":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_ripper#BSD_and_Linux
>
> Asunder:	http://littlesvr.ca/asunder/
> Brasero:	http://projects.gnome.org/brasero/
> Grip:   	http://nostatic.org/grip/
> K3B:    	http://www.k3b.org/
> Sound Juicer: 	http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer
>
> I also ran across Rubyripper, which sounds quite intriguing:
>
> http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Rubyripper
>
> But I have to think that it must be slowed down significantly by all the
> care that it puts into error correction.  It uses "cdparanoia"...
>
> http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Cdparanoia
>
> ...as do at least Asunder and Grip, and perhaps others.  I appreciate the
> effort made by these programs to get the right answer.  I just wonder if
> they are slow.  I'll probably have to test a couple of them.
>
> A friend who uses BSD recommended cdrecord, which comes with cdda2wav for
> ripping.  "It is not too bad," he wrote, "although its CLI is quite
> detailed and takes some getting used to."
>
> Thanks in advance for any tips.
>
> Best,
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
bbaptist at iexposure.com
Internet Exposure, Inc.
http://www.iexposure.com
(612) 676-1946 x17

Providing Internet Services since 1995
Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics
Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Dec 30 10:10:40 2008
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:10:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4E06E4275E744659B44F6F7EFC07B0B7@usicorp.usinternet.com>

I've used Grip but when on cli I prefer cdmp3 which is written in Perl. I
don't think it supports FLAC but it does support mp3 and ogg (which I like).
It is easy to use and supports the CDDB stuff. I wrote some shell aliases
for ripping/sorting/encoding my CDs in various ways.

http://www.roland-riegel.de/cdmp3/
http://freshmeat.net/projects/cdmp3/



-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:38 AM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux

Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD 
rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders 
for GNU/Linux? Until now, I have been using WinXP with CDex for that 
purpose and it has performed well.  There seems to be a GNU/Linux clone of 
CDex called LCDex:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lcdex/

But it is listed as pre-alpha and inactive, so I doubt it is a good 
choice.  For me the best option might have a command-line interface, but a 
GUI is good too.

Wikipedia lists five rippers for "BSD and Linux":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_ripper#BSD_and_Linux

Asunder:	http://littlesvr.ca/asunder/
Brasero:	http://projects.gnome.org/brasero/
Grip:   	http://nostatic.org/grip/
K3B:    	http://www.k3b.org/
Sound Juicer: 	http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer

I also ran across Rubyripper, which sounds quite intriguing:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Rubyripper

But I have to think that it must be slowed down significantly by all the
care 
that it puts into error correction.  It uses "cdparanoia"...

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Cdparanoia

...as do at least Asunder and Grip, and perhaps others.  I appreciate the 
effort made by these programs to get the right answer.  I just wonder if
they 
are slow.  I'll probably have to test a couple of them.

A friend who uses BSD recommended cdrecord, which comes with cdda2wav for 
ripping.  "It is not too bad," he wrote, "although its CLI is quite 
detailed and takes some getting used to."

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Best,
Mike

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From sloncho at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 10:47:23 2008
From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:47:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New notebook computer
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm considering purchasing the Acer Aspire AS4730-4857 notebook from
> newegg.com, looks like a great buy.  However, I want to be able to run
> Linux, preferably Ubuntu on this notebook.  Does anyone have experience
> running Linux on this model, or on Acer notebooks in general?
>

According to a customer review on newegg (user SuperShawnieP), it runs
linux very well:
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=34-115-543&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Keywords=(keywords)&Page=2>

In general, I have installed ubuntu and opensuse on 2 acer laptops w/o
any problem.

Cheers


-- 
Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)

Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just
a pile of scrap.


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Tue Dec 30 11:13:35 2008
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:13:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>


How can I find all the files which are not in packages in ubuntu?

I'm doing some backups, and want to only back up my data, not parts of the OS.  
I think I can just backup /home and /etc, but I want to make sure I didn't 
miss anything.  I'm also curious about the results.

I googled it, and found a solution for redhat/rpm:
   rpmfind --unknown

What would be the apt equivalent?  Pun intended.


Jeremy


From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 12:02:00 2008
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:02:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0812301002l36825870vb6a1dced28f8c90d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>
> How can I find all the files which are not in packages in ubuntu?

I don't have a direct answer to your questions, but here are a few
more locations you may want to back up:

/var/log
/var/lib/mysql (if you have mysql running, or just do a regular
mysqldump into your ~ via cron)

-Erik


From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Dec 30 12:58:33 2008
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:58:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0812301002l36825870vb6a1dced28f8c90d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<fc40260f0812301002l36825870vb6a1dced28f8c90d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020812301058y5d2e3da3p73949b11e47b323e@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if there is an equivalent to the rpm command myself.
deborphan comes to mind as a possiblity. Backing up just your data
should be fairly easy.

Have you compiled/installed any software that wasn't in deb form? If
you have, did you at least install it to /usr/local? If not, you
should! I also recommend using stow to manage your compiled software.
(apt-get install stow) Stow "manages" your /usr/local software by
creating symlinks from it's repository (usually /usr/local/stow) to
the proper places in /usr/local. So your configure/make/make install
would look like:

# ./configure
# make
# sudo make install prefix=/usr/local/stow/package_version
# cd /usr/local/stow
# sudo stow package_version


Sorry for the side track. Here's what I would recommend backing up on
a Debian/Ubuntu system:

- /etc/
- /home/
- /opt/
- /root/
- /srv/
- /usr/local
- /var/www (If you have changed the default web site)
- mysqldump file if you have MySQL databases.
- dpgk selections file.

The dpgk selections file is a file that has a list of all the software
you have installed via Debian's package manager. You can export this
list with the following command:

# dpkg --get-selections > dpgk_selections

On a clean (or any) install of Debian/Ubuntu, you can then restore the
selections list:
# dpkg --set-selections < dpgk_selections

And then tell apt to install your selected software:
# apt-get dist-upgrade

And all the packages you had installed will download and install.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com


From josh at radkeland.org  Tue Dec 30 12:43:12 2008
From: josh at radkeland.org (Joshua Radke)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:43:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <495A6BC0.1070908@radkeland.org>

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned dvd::rip.  It has a kind of 
"walkthrough" gui (fairly intuitive).  It's mainly a Perl/Gtk+ front end 
to a pile of command line tools.  The homepage is at:

http://www.exit1.org/dvdrip/

Josh

On 12/30/2008 1:38 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
> Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD 
> rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders 
> for GNU/Linux? Until now, I have been using WinXP with CDex for that 
> purpose and it has performed well.  There seems to be a GNU/Linux clone of 
> CDex called LCDex:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/lcdex/
> 
> But it is listed as pre-alpha and inactive, so I doubt it is a good 
> choice.  For me the best option might have a command-line interface, but a 
> GUI is good too.
> 
> Wikipedia lists five rippers for "BSD and Linux":
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_ripper#BSD_and_Linux
> 
> Asunder:	http://littlesvr.ca/asunder/
> Brasero:	http://projects.gnome.org/brasero/
> Grip:   	http://nostatic.org/grip/
> K3B:    	http://www.k3b.org/
> Sound Juicer: 	http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer
> 
> I also ran across Rubyripper, which sounds quite intriguing:
> 
> http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Rubyripper
> 
> But I have to think that it must be slowed down significantly by all the care 
> that it puts into error correction.  It uses "cdparanoia"...
> 
> http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Cdparanoia
> 
> ...as do at least Asunder and Grip, and perhaps others.  I appreciate the 
> effort made by these programs to get the right answer.  I just wonder if they 
> are slow.  I'll probably have to test a couple of them.
> 
> A friend who uses BSD recommended cdrecord, which comes with cdda2wav for 
> ripping.  "It is not too bad," he wrote, "although its CLI is quite 
> detailed and takes some getting used to."
> 
> Thanks in advance for any tips.
> 
> Best,
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From scott at dier.name  Tue Dec 30 13:12:11 2008
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:12:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60812301112y57d415bew9389f4d408c232d3@mail.gmail.com>

Take a look at debsums to find changed files.  As to new files...

(for i in `dpkg --get-selections | cut -f1`; do dpkg -L $i; done;)  | sort |
uniq

will get a list of files.

find can be used (ie: find / | sort ) to get a list, then you could use diff
to figure out whats different between the two files.  A regular expression
grep could be used to figure out just the additions or subtractions between
the two files.

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Jeremy <tclug at lizakowski.com> wrote:

>
> How can I find all the files which are not in packages in ubuntu?
>
> I'm doing some backups, and want to only back up my data, not parts of the
> OS.
> I think I can just backup /home and /etc, but I want to make sure I didn't
> miss anything.  I'm also curious about the results.
>
> I googled it, and found a solution for redhat/rpm:
>   rpmfind --unknown
>
> What would be the apt equivalent?  Pun intended.
>
>
> Jeremy
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
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From josh at tcbug.org  Tue Dec 30 16:14:25 2008
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:14:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Intel's "Virtualization Technology"
In-Reply-To: <20081229185218.GV20101@iris.iucha.org>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261445510.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>	<49554808.40305@umn.edu>	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0812261516250.4732@taxa.epi.umn.edu>	<49554D1C.1000301@umn.edu>
	<4958ED8C.5050302@tcbug.org>
	<20081229185218.GV20101@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <495A9D41.3040208@tcbug.org>

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Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 09:32:28AM -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote:
>> Here's another gotchya you'll want to watch out for in laptops.  (as if
>> there wasn't enough already)
>>
>> I was running a 32 bit OS on my last laptop (An IBM/Lenevo T60 with a
>> core 2 duo 1.66 ghz) which was fully capable of running a 64 bit OS.  I
>> was unable to virtualize 64 bit operating systems due to not being able
>> to enable VT in the BIOS.
>>
>> You need VT support both in the actual hardware (cpu) as well as in the
>> BIOS in order to virtualize a 64 bit OS from a 32 bit host OS.
> 
> The BIOS on my T60 supports virtualization just fine.  IIRC the fix
> went in about two years ago, as I bought it in March 2007 and I had no
> problems with virtualization out of the box.
> 
> florin

Having sold it a few months ago I can't easily come up with the full
model number, but mine was (of September 2007) running the latest BIOS
availale from Lenovo and did not have VT support in it.  There were
quite a few revisions of the T60 made, some of the early ones didn't
even have core 2 duos in them.

I think the relevant message is "Even in the same model line your milage
may vary."

Also, I will reiterate, not having VT support will only bite you if you
want to run a 64 bit guest from a 32 bit host.  Other combinations of
host and guest will work fine (eg: 32 bit host/32 bit guest, 64 bit
host/64 bit guest, 64 bit host/32 bit guest) without VT suppport in the
BIOS.

- --
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

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From ai9nl at arrl.net  Tue Dec 30 18:45:01 2008
From: ai9nl at arrl.net (Harv Nelson)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:45:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New notebook computer
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a470a5f0812301645ob49174kd520291e3586e29f@mail.gmail.com>

i'm running an Acer 5315-2122 with debian "lenny" at the moment.  it booted
an ubutu and knoppix cd just fine.  previously, I had suse running on it but
switched to lenny, cuz the suse disn't seem to handle the sound card right.
the debian seemed to fix things up just right. I got this one at a
Radio-Shack store with a 2G memory for about $400.
hth
harv

0n Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm considering purchasing the Acer Aspire AS4730-4857<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115543> notebook
> from newegg.com, looks like a great buy.  However, I want to be able to
> run Linux, preferably Ubuntu on this notebook.  Does anyone have experience
> running Linux on this model, or on Acer notebooks in general?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Troy
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From haircut at gmail.com  Wed Dec 31 12:45:44 2008
From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:45:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <1230749144.23115.8.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 11:13 -0600, Jeremy wrote:
> How can I find all the files which are not in packages in ubuntu?

Here's an idea:

  find / > /tmp/allfiles.txt
  for i in `cat /tmp/allfiles.txt`
  do
    if ! dpkg --search $i
    then echo $i > /tmp/unknown.txt
    fi
  done

You might want "-type f" in that find command.

-- 
Adam Monsen
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From josh at tcbug.org  Wed Dec 31 13:44:12 2008
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:44:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <1230749144.23115.8.camel@localhost>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>	<200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<1230749144.23115.8.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <495BCB8C.2080300@tcbug.org>

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Adam Monsen wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 11:13 -0600, Jeremy wrote:
>> How can I find all the files which are not in packages in ubuntu?
> 
> Here's an idea:
> 
>   find / > /tmp/allfiles.txt
>   for i in `cat /tmp/allfiles.txt`
>   do
>     if ! dpkg --search $i
>     then echo $i > /tmp/unknown.txt
>     fi
>   done
> 
> You might want "-type f" in that find command.
> 

You certainly want:

then echo $i >> /tmp/unknown.txt

While this approach will probably work, it's bound to be fairly slow.

- --
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

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From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Wed Dec 31 14:06:13 2008
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:06:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <495BCB8C.2080300@tcbug.org>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<1230749144.23115.8.camel@localhost> <495BCB8C.2080300@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812311357320.27348@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> Adam Monsen wrote:
>> On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 11:13 -0600, Jeremy wrote:
>>> How can I find all the files which are not in packages in ubuntu?
>>
>> Here's an idea:
>>
>>   find / > /tmp/allfiles.txt
>>   for i in `cat /tmp/allfiles.txt`
>>   do
>>     if ! dpkg --search $i
>>     then echo $i > /tmp/unknown.txt
>>     fi
>>   done
>>
>> You might want "-type f" in that find command.
>
> You certainly want:
>
> then echo $i >> /tmp/unknown.txt
>
> While this approach will probably work, it's bound to be fairly slow.


Right.  So many of us will want a good solution to this problem that we 
should probably try to figure out the optimal approach (if there is one). 
In fact, Ubuntu and other systems should provide us some assistance on 
this issue.

Will the dpkg --search method identify configuration files that were part 
of the package but later modified by the user?  I would think those files 
would be identified as package files, not backed up, then cofiguration 
data would be lost.  Is that correct?

Related to the latter problem -- if you install the newest versions of 
programs, then overwrite the configuration files with your old 
configuration files, often from older versions of the program, will that 
cause problems?  I think it usually wouldn't but might sometimes.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Dec 31 16:16:22 2008
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:16:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages
In-Reply-To: <1230749144.23115.8.camel@localhost>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<1230749144.23115.8.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20081231221622.GB3138@iris.iucha.org>

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:45:44PM -0600, Adam Monsen wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 11:13 -0600, Jeremy wrote:
> > How can I find all the files which are not in packages in ubuntu?
> 
> Here's an idea:
> 
>   find / > /tmp/allfiles.txt
>   for i in `cat /tmp/allfiles.txt`
>   do
>     if ! dpkg --search $i
>     then echo $i > /tmp/unknown.txt
>     fi
>   done
> 
> You might want "-type f" in that find command.

I don't have a .deb system handy to test, but you I know you can get
all the installed packages (dpkg --get-selections) and you probably
can ask for each package what files it installed.  Iterate on the
packages and dump the files they installed to a list, then compare
that list with the list of all the files in the system.

BTW, you want to exclude '/proc', '/sys' and '/dev' from the 'all
files' list.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From jonathon at quotidian.org  Tue Dec 30 08:19:52 2008
From: jonathon at quotidian.org (Jonathon Jongsma)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:19:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0812300134430.645@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <495A2E08.8030809@quotidian.org>

On 12/30/2008 01:38 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
> Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD
> rippers/encoders.  What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders
> for GNU/Linux? Until now, I have been using WinXP with CDex for that
> purpose and it has performed well.  There seems to be a GNU/Linux clone of
> CDex called LCDex:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/lcdex/
>
> But it is listed as pre-alpha and inactive, so I doubt it is a good
> choice.  For me the best option might have a command-line interface, but a
> GUI is good too.
>
> Wikipedia lists five rippers for "BSD and Linux":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_ripper#BSD_and_Linux
>
> Asunder:	http://littlesvr.ca/asunder/
> Brasero:	http://projects.gnome.org/brasero/
> Grip:   	http://nostatic.org/grip/
> K3B:    	http://www.k3b.org/
> Sound Juicer: 	http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer

I use Sound Juicer.  It's a simple no-nonsense program that works.


From shanson at cruiskeenconsulting.com  Tue Dec 30 12:05:54 2008
From: shanson at cruiskeenconsulting.com (Steve Hanson)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:05:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New notebook computer
In-Reply-To: <e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230812300847j5f574a4fw974968b994a6c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <495A6302.20606@cruiskeenconsulting.com>

Sunny wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I'm considering purchasing the Acer Aspire AS4730-4857 notebook from
>> newegg.com, looks like a great buy.  However, I want to be able to run
>> Linux, preferably Ubuntu on this notebook.  Does anyone have experience
>> running Linux on this model, or on Acer notebooks in general?
>>     
Yes - I've in general found the Acer laptops to be fairly non-quirky in
that regard, other than the possibility of some issues with drivers for
the wireless cards, etc - but that's true of most notebooks.
>>     
>
> According to a customer review on newegg (user SuperShawnieP), it runs
> linux very well:
> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=34-115-543&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Keywords=(keywords)&Page=2>
>
> In general, I have installed ubuntu and opensuse on 2 acer laptops w/o
> any problem.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>   



From aa0p at comcast.net  Sun Dec 28 13:16:10 2008
From: aa0p at comcast.net (aa0p)
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 13:16:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6300.1230394993.2174.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.6300.1230394993.2174.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <op.umvzs8cyguvyu4@aa0p-desktop>

Thank you Mike, Chuch, & Todd,
It had the wrong IP address;  when corrected, the HP printer worked fine.
Now I should remember about checking IP's.

Now if the Brother printer company will release a linux driver for the  
model I have then I'll be in printer utopia!
Steve

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:23:13 -0600, <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org>  
wrote:

> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: ndiswrapper user seeks abuse (Donovan)
>    2. Re: laptops for GNU/Linux (Adam Monsen)
>    3. Re: laptops for GNU/Linux (Troy)
>    4. Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network (aa0p)
>    5. re laptops for linux (Thoth.Serath at gmail.com)
>    6. Re: Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network (Mike Miller)
>    7. Re: Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network (Chuck Cole)
>    8. Re: Printing to HP Deskjet 6940 over Network
>       (auditodd at comcast.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


From msmart890 at frontiernet.net  Tue Dec 30 12:58:41 2008
From: msmart890 at frontiernet.net (mike smith)
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 12:58:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [TCLUG] Re: [SCALUG] [OT] NCR 3400 SVR4 box.
In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.30.0012301950490.1289-100000@meridian.kendeco.com
Message-ID: <1230663521.2994.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hello,
Do you still have your NCR 3400 SVR4?  I have 2 of them and have been
thinking of what to do with them.  Right now I have them running
windoze95.  But I would like to go to Linux.  What has been your success
with your box?

MPS