From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Feb  2 15:41:48 2009
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:41:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200902022141.n12LfmF01168@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell Inspiron 9100

I have a Dell Inspiron 9100 for sale:

2.8Ghz Pentium 4 w/ hyper threading
1gb mem
30gb hdd
15" widescreen
DVD burner
Internal Wireless
XP Home Edition (no recovery disk)

The screen itself is great, no scratches or dead pixels. There are scuffs on the casing. The battery seems to hold a charge for at least an hour.

$300 or B.O.

jens3096 at gmail.com


Seller Email address: jens3096 at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From tclug at jfoo.org  Mon Feb  2 20:43:59 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:43:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
Message-ID: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>

Hi Y'all,

There is one place I work occasionally that has some filtering going on. 
Access to facebook is denied, for example. Since I run a server at home, 
I thought "hmmm... just throw a proxy server on the home machine, use 
that". Thinking more about it tonight, I realized the filter might not 
be just on URL. It might be on the content. So my next thought is to use 
a proxy over SSL.

Some questions:
1) Is this the right way to do this?
2) Should I be looking at an anonymizer instead, an apache plug-in?
3) Is squid sufficient?

Thanks,

j


From klieber at gentoo.org  Mon Feb  2 20:53:34 2009
From: klieber at gentoo.org (Kurt Lieber)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:53:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <82d43d110902021853mbba23fhc0e0c4c720ad9c0b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43 PM, John Gateley <tclug at jfoo.org> wrote:

> Some questions:
> 1) Is this the right way to do this?


If you have sshd running on your home box, you can set up a dynamic proxy
using ssh in 30 seconds or less.  Client machine runs a SOCKS proxy over
SSH, connects to box at home.  Web browser on client is configured to use a
SOCKS proxy of localhost:<port>.    That will tunnel all web traffic through
your SSH connection and out over your box at home.  Works great.

Much easier and lightweight than squid imo.  The one caveat is that intranet
sites are inaccessible unless you take the time to set up local bypass rules
in your web browser of choice.


--kurt
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From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Mon Feb  2 22:06:46 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:06:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>

On Feb 2, 2009, at 8:43 PM, John Gateley wrote:

> Hi Y'all,
>
> There is one place I work occasionally that has some filtering going  
> on.
> Access to facebook is denied, for example. Since I run a server at  
> home,
> I thought "hmmm... just throw a proxy server on the home machine, use
> that". Thinking more about it tonight, I realized the filter might not
> be just on URL. It might be on the content. So my next thought is to  
> use
> a proxy over SSL.
>
> Some questions:
> 1) Is this the right way to do this?
> 2) Should I be looking at an anonymizer instead, an apache plug-in?
> 3) Is squid sufficient?


Try this:

http://www.secure-computing.net/wiki/index.php/Secure_browsing


---
Eric Crist






From gabe at msi.umn.edu  Mon Feb  2 22:19:38 2009
From: gabe at msi.umn.edu (Gabe Turner)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:19:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <82d43d110902021853mbba23fhc0e0c4c720ad9c0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
	<82d43d110902021853mbba23fhc0e0c4c720ad9c0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090203041938.GA14348@blackice.msi.umn.edu>

On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 08:53:34PM -0600, Kurt Lieber wrote:
>    If you have sshd running on your home box, you can set up a dynamic proxy
>    using ssh in 30 seconds or less.  Client machine runs a SOCKS proxy over
>    SSH, connects to box at home.  Web browser on client is configured to use
>    a SOCKS proxy of localhost:<port>.    That will tunnel all web traffic
>    through your SSH connection and out over your box at home.  Works great.
> 
>    Much easier and lightweight than squid imo.  The one caveat is that
>    intranet sites are inaccessible unless you take the time to set up local
>    bypass rules in your web browser of choice. 

Such rules are trivial and seemless to setup using the FoxyProxy Firefox
add-on:

    http://foxyproxy.mozdev.org/

-- 
Gabe Turner                                             gabe at msi.umn.edu
UNIX System Administrator,
University of Minnesota
Supercomputing Institute                          http://www.msi.umn.edu


From j at packetgod.com  Mon Feb  2 22:24:53 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:24:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
	<C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0902022024w5f033192u4af563bae9da336e@mail.gmail.com>

I use that all the time and it works great, you can also have your SSH
server listen on port 443 if they don't allow SSH out.  Or if they have a
proxy try running OpenVPN on ports tcp 443 and udp 53 generally one of the
two will be open.

--j

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Eric F Crist
<ecrist at secure-computing.net>wrote:

> On Feb 2, 2009, at 8:43 PM, John Gateley wrote:
>
> > Hi Y'all,
> >
> > There is one place I work occasionally that has some filtering going
> > on.
> > Access to facebook is denied, for example. Since I run a server at
> > home,
> > I thought "hmmm... just throw a proxy server on the home machine, use
> > that". Thinking more about it tonight, I realized the filter might not
> > be just on URL. It might be on the content. So my next thought is to
> > use
> > a proxy over SSL.
> >
> > Some questions:
> > 1) Is this the right way to do this?
> > 2) Should I be looking at an anonymizer instead, an apache plug-in?
> > 3) Is squid sufficient?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> http://www.secure-computing.net/wiki/index.php/Secure_browsing
>
>
> ---
> Eric Crist
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From j at packetgod.com  Mon Feb  2 23:13:32 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:13:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <20090203041938.GA14348@blackice.msi.umn.edu>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
	<82d43d110902021853mbba23fhc0e0c4c720ad9c0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090203041938.GA14348@blackice.msi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0902022113s47ac62b4uac895df350a2f057@mail.gmail.com>

The best thing about foxyproxy is that you can completely hide the fact that
anything odd is going on by setting up rules for only the sites that you
know are not allowed by the filters.  That way if they are monitoring your
activities you don't suddenly have 0 traffic going out where your normal
traffic is normal browsing.

Having said that any of these techniques are quite obvious to anyone
watching the network so you could get caught... not that you would be doing
anything bad but if there are corporate policies setup and you are working
on a corporate system on the corporate network then you should probably
abide by those policies especially during this time of people no longer
getting the corporate check :)

I get paid to test these systems so that's why I do it, but I've generally
got a get out of jail free authorization letter.  Your results may vary.

--j

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Gabe Turner <gabe at msi.umn.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 08:53:34PM -0600, Kurt Lieber wrote:
> >    If you have sshd running on your home box, you can set up a dynamic
> proxy
> >    using ssh in 30 seconds or less.  Client machine runs a SOCKS proxy
> over
> >    SSH, connects to box at home.  Web browser on client is configured to
> use
> >    a SOCKS proxy of localhost:<port>.    That will tunnel all web traffic
> >    through your SSH connection and out over your box at home.  Works
> great.
> >
> >    Much easier and lightweight than squid imo.  The one caveat is that
> >    intranet sites are inaccessible unless you take the time to set up
> local
> >    bypass rules in your web browser of choice.
>
> Such rules are trivial and seemless to setup using the FoxyProxy Firefox
> add-on:
>
>    http://foxyproxy.mozdev.org/
>
> --
> Gabe Turner                                             gabe at msi.umn.edu
> UNIX System Administrator,
> University of Minnesota
> Supercomputing Institute                          http://www.msi.umn.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Tue Feb  3 10:58:59 2009
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:58:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E6024A6714@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>

John Gateley wrote:

>  just throw a proxy server on the home machine ... over SSL.


If you're running Apache, CGIProxy is easy and works with or without
SSL.
http://www.jmarshall.com/tools/cgiproxy/





From drue at therub.org  Tue Feb  3 11:43:22 2009
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:43:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
Message-ID: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>

It has come to my attention that we have a red letter date coming up.

That's right - the stars are aligning next Friday, the 13th.

Observe:

$ date -r 1234567890
Fri Feb 13 17:31:30 CST 2009


At 5:31:30 localtime, not only is it happy hour at Grumpy's, it is also
1234567890 seconds since the unix epoch.

Please join us in celebration at Grumpy's on Washington[1] starting at
5:31!

Dan and some TCBUGgers

[1]
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1111+Washington+Ave+S,+Minneapolis+MN&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.546728,69.960938&ie=UTF8&ll=44.973239,-93.25779&spn=0.036371,0.068321&z=14&layer=c&cbll=44.975284,-93.253101



From Thoth.Serath at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 13:42:21 2009
From: Thoth.Serath at gmail.com (Thoth.Serath at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:42:21 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
Message-ID: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>

does anyone have a sun microsystems computer they can part with?
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From tclug at jfoo.org  Tue Feb  3 20:34:20 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:34:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
	<C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <4988FEAC.7050905@jfoo.org>

Eric F Crist wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2009, at 8:43 PM, John Gateley wrote:

>> ...So my next thought is to use
>> a proxy over SSL.
>> 
> 
> Try this:
> 
> http://www.secure-computing.net/wiki/index.php/Secure_browsing

Thanks to all who replied, this looks like the perfect solution
(though I may have to change my sshd port, it's currently a very
not standard port - neither 22 nor https).

j


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed Feb  4 10:11:18 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:11:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <4988FEAC.7050905@jfoo.org>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org><C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
	<4988FEAC.7050905@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <BFB64A180D4E472BA542E7C80F8B4509@usicorp.usinternet.com>

You do not need to change your sshd port per se but start another sshd
process that listens on a port in addition to port 22. 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of John Gateley
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:34 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering

Eric F Crist wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2009, at 8:43 PM, John Gateley wrote:

>> ...So my next thought is to use
>> a proxy over SSL.
>> 
> 
> Try this:
> 
> http://www.secure-computing.net/wiki/index.php/Secure_browsing

Thanks to all who replied, this looks like the perfect solution
(though I may have to change my sshd port, it's currently a very
not standard port - neither 22 nor https).

j

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 12:01:13 2009
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:01:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <BFB64A180D4E472BA542E7C80F8B4509@usicorp.usinternet.com>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
	<C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
	<4988FEAC.7050905@jfoo.org>
	<BFB64A180D4E472BA542E7C80F8B4509@usicorp.usinternet.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0902041001s85c769fm966048987fe03eb9@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:
> You do not need to change your sshd port per se but start another sshd
> process that listens on a port in addition to port 22.

...or just use iptables to redirect traffic from port X to 22. Then
you wouldn't have the overhead of another sshd.

-Erik


From trieff at greencaremankato.com  Wed Feb  4 13:26:30 2009
From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:26:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1233770403.22755.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKGENDFLAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>

I got the IPCop hacked to accept the Zerina package & OpenVPN setup now and
connected. My next step is how do I see what is on the other side of the
tunnel???
Also, it has been suggested that I add a wins server for our networked vpns.
Any ideas on how I approach this???
Tom

Thomas Rieff
GreenCare
1717 3rd Avenue
Mankato, MN 56001
(507) 344-8314 Office
(507) 344-8316 Fax




From admin at lctn.org  Wed Feb  4 14:16:22 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:16:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKGENDFLAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
References: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKGENDFLAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
Message-ID: <4989F796.8030009@lctn.org>



Thomas Rieff wrote:
> I got the IPCop hacked to accept the Zerina package & OpenVPN setup now and
> connected. My next step is how do I see what is on the other side of the
> tunnel???
> Also, it has been suggested that I add a wins server for our networked vpns.
> Any ideas on how I approach this???
> Tom
>
>   

You should be able to ping the private IP scheme of the far end, If you 
have a green icon (On IPCop), representing the link is up.


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Feb  4 15:42:05 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:42:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] login problems on FC9 box
Message-ID: <498A0BAD.3040504@lctn.org>

I am trying to help another tech fix a login problem. Users cannot login 
to the console or via ssh. When an attempt is made all users get 
"permission denied".

 However users, including root can login via webmin. Attempting to 
change root password returns the following error:
 passwd: Authentication information cannot be recovered

Googling around seems to indicate it might be a problem with pam, but I 
have not found a solid answer on how to fix it yet.




From tclug at jfoo.org  Wed Feb  4 16:36:25 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:36:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0902022024w5f033192u4af563bae9da336e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
	<C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
	<38aa5b6a0902022024w5f033192u4af563bae9da336e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090204163625.2867ffc4.tclug@jfoo.org>

On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:24:53 -0600
J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:

> I use that all the time and it works great, you can also have your SSH
> server listen on port 443 if they don't allow SSH out.  Or if they have a
> proxy try running OpenVPN on ports tcp 443 and udp 53 generally one of the
> two will be open.

Unfortunately, I'm running stuff on 443, 80, 53 UDP etc.
What other common ports are open?

Otherwise I'll try the apache plug-in that Craig suggested.

Thanks (and it worked great except for the damn firewall)

j

-- 
John Gateley <tclug at jfoo.org>


From tclug at jfoo.org  Wed Feb  4 16:42:43 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:42:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Proxies and avoiding public filtering
In-Reply-To: <20090204163625.2867ffc4.tclug@jfoo.org>
References: <4987AF6F.6010108@jfoo.org>
	<C8F4A7D2-681F-45CE-89CF-ECC2ABC1614A@secure-computing.net>
	<38aa5b6a0902022024w5f033192u4af563bae9da336e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090204163625.2867ffc4.tclug@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <20090204164243.21702003.tclug@jfoo.org>

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:36:25 -0600
John Gateley <tclug at jfoo.org> wrote:

> Unfortunately, I'm running stuff on 443, 80, 53 UDP etc.
> What other common ports are open?

Hah... think I got it - the insecure POP port, which I'm
not supporting.

Any other suggestions?

j
-- 
John Gateley <tclug at jfoo.org>


From drue at therub.org  Wed Feb  4 16:47:33 2009
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:47:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <498A15CC.1010307@comcast.net>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org> <498A15CC.1010307@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20090204224733.GD56219@therub.org>

On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 04:25:16PM -0600, Jeff Nelson wrote:
> Dan Rue wrote:
> > $ date -r 1234567890
> > Fri Feb 13 17:31:30 CST 2009
> 
> What implementation of 'date' are you using? On Ubuntu Ibex I get:
> 
> $ date -r 1234567890
> date: 1234567890: No such file or directory
> 
> Nor can I find an option that reproduces your results.
> 
> Thanks.

I used date on FreeBSD.

It took me a while to find this, but here's the ugly gnu equivalent: 

# date -d '1970-01-01 UTC 1234567890 seconds'
Fri Feb 13 17:31:30 CST 2009

Dan


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Feb  5 07:43:50 2009
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 07:43:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] login problems on FC9 box
In-Reply-To: <498A0BAD.3040504@lctn.org>
References: <498A0BAD.3040504@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <200902050743.50463.tclug@lizakowski.com>


You could boot from a rescue CD, mount the filesystem, and then look around for 
issues, including pam and the passwd file.  You might want to run a rootkit 
finder as well.

Jeremy

On Wednesday 04 February 2009 3:42:05 pm Raymond Norton wrote:
> I am trying to help another tech fix a login problem. Users cannot login
> to the console or via ssh. When an attempt is made all users get
> "permission denied".
>
>  However users, including root can login via webmin. Attempting to
> change root password returns the following error:
>  passwd: Authentication information cannot be recovered
>
> Googling around seems to indicate it might be a problem with pam, but I
> have not found a solid answer on how to fix it yet.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From josh at radkeland.org  Thu Feb  5 07:44:47 2009
From: josh at radkeland.org (Joshua Radke)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 07:44:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <20090204224733.GD56219@therub.org>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org> <498A15CC.1010307@comcast.net>
	<20090204224733.GD56219@therub.org>
Message-ID: <498AED4F.2010404@radkeland.org>

On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 04:25:16PM -0600, Jeff Nelson wrote:
>> Dan Rue wrote:
>>     
>>> $ date -r 1234567890
>>> Fri Feb 13 17:31:30 CST 2009
>>>       
>> What implementation of 'date' are you using? On Ubuntu Ibex I get:
>>
>> $ date -r 1234567890
>> date: 1234567890: No such file or directory
>>
>> Nor can I find an option that reproduces your results.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>     
>
> I used date on FreeBSD.
>
> It took me a while to find this, but here's the ugly gnu equivalent: 
>
> # date -d '1970-01-01 UTC 1234567890 seconds'
> Fri Feb 13 17:31:30 CST 2009
>
> Dan
>   
# date -d @1234567890
Fri Feb 13 17:31:30 CST 2009



From josh at tcbug.org  Thu Feb  5 12:32:15 2009
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:32:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
In-Reply-To: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
References: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
Message-ID: <498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thoth.Serath at gmail.com wrote:
> does anyone have a sun microsystems computer they can part with?

Sounds like a really good way to end up with a 30mhz SparcStation 5


- --
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5ABC 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkmLMK8ACgkQJvkB8SevrsvcvgCfYJ+He6WYH8fxPW4gYBXxYKv+
jpsAn0XHZl6IrAuDUfBRrTZh4obtm8cr
=rqWW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Feb  5 12:51:35 2009
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:51:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
In-Reply-To: <498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org>
References: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
	<498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902051250570.25356@dragon>

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> Sounds like a really good way to end up with a 30mhz SparcStation 5

Hey I tried to dump some SPARCclassics on him but he never responded (:

-Yaron

--


From josh at tcbug.org  Thu Feb  5 13:49:28 2009
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:49:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
In-Reply-To: <498B3700.2010702@beer.tclug.org>
References: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
	<498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org> <498B3700.2010702@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <498B42C8.60700@tcbug.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jima wrote:
> Josh Paetzel wrote:
>> Thoth Serath wrote:
>>> does anyone have a sun microsystems computer they can part with?
>>
>> Sounds like a really good way to end up with a 30mhz SparcStation 5
> 
>  Don't be silly.  The low-end SS5 was 70mhz.  I think I only have 85 and
> 110mhz models, though.
>  I'm not using them anymore, FWIW.  Or the newer gear.
> 
>      Jima

Thank God I've been able to nvram erase everything I knew about old
hardware.  I gave away my 2-way 150mhz SS10 a few years ago because it
was useless for anything but a space heater.

I was attempting to be facetious, in reality, Sun never made a 30mhz
system.  Closest you could get was a 33mhz SS10, which despite it's
name, predated the SS5 by a couple years.

Actually I gave it away to someone on this list now that I think of it.

- --
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel

PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5ABC 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkmLQsgACgkQJvkB8SevrsthxACeP6wncDuxAUOghkBgvOpYFuXG
uzUAnRnSAel973fneJtOiKU4I5lWlocJ
=JxNq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Feb  5 14:00:14 2009
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:00:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
In-Reply-To: <498B42C8.60700@tcbug.org>
References: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
	<498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org> <498B3700.2010702@beer.tclug.org>
	<498B42C8.60700@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902051359140.25356@dragon>

On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> I gave away my 2-way 150mhz SS10 a few years ago because it
> was useless for anything but a space heater.

Don't knock it! I use a SPARC Voyager as a foot warmer.

A foot warmer with over 700 days uptime!



-Yaron

--


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Feb  5 12:59:12 2009
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:59:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
In-Reply-To: <498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org>
References: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
	<498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <498B3700.2010702@beer.tclug.org>

Josh Paetzel wrote:
> Thoth Serath wrote:
>> does anyone have a sun microsystems computer they can part with?
> 
> Sounds like a really good way to end up with a 30mhz SparcStation 5

  Don't be silly.  The low-end SS5 was 70mhz.  I think I only have 85 
and 110mhz models, though.
  I'm not using them anymore, FWIW.  Or the newer gear.

      Jima


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Feb  5 16:35:23 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:35:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] best way to merge files
Message-ID: <498B69AB.8000803@lctn.org>

I'm moving all user info over to a new server 
(passwd-group-gshadow-shadow /home, and /var/spool/mail).

I'm forgetting how to merge the user name and password info  so as not 
to overwrite anything on the new server, or cause conflicts with user 
ids, etc...






From jhawley at hissingdragon.net  Fri Feb  6 14:15:23 2009
From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:15:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
In-Reply-To: <498B42C8.60700@tcbug.org>
References: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>	<498B30AF.80708@tcbug.org>
	<498B3700.2010702@beer.tclug.org> <498B42C8.60700@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <498C9A5B.2080802@hissingdragon.net>

Josh Paetzel wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Jima wrote:
>   
>> Josh Paetzel wrote:
>>     
>>> Thoth Serath wrote:
>>>       
>>>> does anyone have a sun microsystems computer they can part with?
>>>>         
>>> Sounds like a really good way to end up with a 30mhz SparcStation 5
>>>       
>>  Don't be silly.  The low-end SS5 was 70mhz.  I think I only have 85 and
>> 110mhz models, though.
>>  I'm not using them anymore, FWIW.  Or the newer gear.
>>
>>      Jima
>>     
>
> Thank God I've been able to nvram erase everything I knew about old
> hardware.  I gave away my 2-way 150mhz SS10 a few years ago because it
> was useless for anything but a space heater.
>
> I was attempting to be facetious, in reality, Sun never made a 30mhz
> system.  Closest you could get was a 33mhz SS10, which despite it's
> name, predated the SS5 by a couple years.
>
> Actually I gave it away to someone on this list now that I think of it.
>
>
>   
'gave' it away, huh?  You must owe me money then.  :)

Yeah, I think I upgraded it to version 10 and threw the GNU utils on 
it.  But it took up half my office.  I think I 'gave' it to someone else 
on the list.

~jh


From david at edgertongroupllc.com  Fri Feb  6 15:09:10 2009
From: david at edgertongroupllc.com (David Edgerton)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:09:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Next Meeting
Message-ID: <1233954550.7740.1.camel@david-laptop>

When is the next TCLUG meeting?  Thanks.

David L. Edgerton, Jr.
The Edgerton Group, LLC
A Professional IT Consulting Firm



From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb  6 17:57:17 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:57:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] best way to merge files
In-Reply-To: <498B69AB.8000803@lctn.org>
References: <498B69AB.8000803@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <498CCE5D.2010306@lctn.org>

Raymond Norton wrote:
> I'm moving all user info over to a new server 
> (passwd-group-gshadow-shadow /home, and /var/spool/mail).
>
> I'm forgetting how to merge the user name and password info  so as not 
> to overwrite anything on the new server, or cause conflicts with user 
> ids, etc...
>
>
>
>   
Thought I found the perfect answer this morning. I ran the script below, 
and everything seemed to merge fine. Homes and /var/spool/mail/  all 
seemed to have the correct permissions. I installed squirrelmail, 
attempted to login as one of the users, but no go, so I attempted to run 
"passwd username", but got an error saying the user did not exist. I 
double checked /etc/passwd, and the user is there. What else should I be 
looking for to fix this?

The new box is Ubuntu, Intrepid.

Script and commands:

 

<script>

#!/usr/bin/perl

use warnings;
use strict;
use Tie::File::AsHash;

die "usage:$0 <oldfile> <newfile>\n" if @ARGV ne 2;
my ($old, $new) = @ARGV;

die "$new: $!" if ! -f $new;
tie my %new, 'Tie::File::AsHash', $new, split => ':'
       or die "Problem tying %new: $!";

open (OLD, $old) || die "can't read $old $!";
while(<OLD>) {
   chomp;
   my ($uid) = $_ =~ /^([^:]+)/;
   $new{$uid} = $_ if ! $new{$uid};
}

close OLD;
untie %new;

</script>

 

./merge.pl /root/passwd /etc/passwd
./merge.pl /root/shadow /etc/shadow
./merge.pl /root/group /etc/group
./merge.pl /root/gshadow /etc/gsjhadow




From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb  6 22:38:22 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:38:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] best way to merge files
In-Reply-To: <498CCE5D.2010306@lctn.org>
References: <498B69AB.8000803@lctn.org> <498CCE5D.2010306@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <498D103E.3030707@lctn.org>

I fixed it by following these instructions.

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-move-migrate-user-accounts-old-to-new-server/ 



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Sat Feb  7 22:18:39 2009
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:18:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Next Meeting
In-Reply-To: <1233954550.7740.1.camel@david-laptop>
References: <1233954550.7740.1.camel@david-laptop>
Message-ID: <200902072218.39745.tclug@lizakowski.com>


We're working on one for mid-march, but February is open.

Would anyone like to present on any topics?

Jeremy

On Friday 06 February 2009 3:09:10 pm David Edgerton wrote:
> When is the next TCLUG meeting?  Thanks.
>
> David L. Edgerton, Jr.
> The Edgerton Group, LLC
> A Professional IT Consulting Firm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From marc at e-skinner.net  Mon Feb  9 09:54:18 2009
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:54:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
Message-ID: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>

well, they just did it to me!  they are now blocking port 25!  i called
and complained and they say - that they saw 5,000 emails or more come
from my cable modem on a single day.  so they are preventing that port
now - and will not fix it.

i know my system isn't sending that - i have no windows boxes, and the
majority of my traffic is sent via a VPN.  i did however download about
500gb of corp data to my fileserver ( i work for red hat - need to
synchronize all the software, etc) - and i'm sure that is what they
flagged me - a large amount of data over a short amount of time.  i had
been happy with comcast but this is not cool.

it also seems that they have reduced my upload speed from 4mb to 1.5mb
... but i'll have to do some more testing to verify.

might be time to increase my DSL circuit.  i have always had a slow
1.5mb DSL line as a backup, since my wife and i both work from home, and
both our jobs rely on internet connectivity, i felt it worth the extra
$20 a month for a slow backup line.  it actually comes in handy about
3-4 times a year, as my comcast line will go down for 1-3 days a couple
of times during the year ... usually due to the local neighbourhood
comcast visit that screws up something for the entire neighbourhood
until i call and complain - like this weekend!

might also have to look at the business comacast offering - faster and
supposedly no limits or restrictions.  anybody have that?  i live in
burnsville so any feed back regarding the comcast business offering
would be useful. 

thanks!


From jeruvin at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 10:25:05 2009
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:25:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <6eb23c4e0902090825y592fd624nbcc904c80e98dddd@mail.gmail.com>

We had comcast business and didn't have any problems with it in the St Louis
Park area. Just a small business with an exchange server so no huge amounts
of traffic.

Jason

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:

> well, they just did it to me!  they are now blocking port 25!  i called
> and complained and they say - that they saw 5,000 emails or more come
> from my cable modem on a single day.  so they are preventing that port
> now - and will not fix it.
>
> i know my system isn't sending that - i have no windows boxes, and the
> majority of my traffic is sent via a VPN.  i did however download about
> 500gb of corp data to my fileserver ( i work for red hat - need to
> synchronize all the software, etc) - and i'm sure that is what they
> flagged me - a large amount of data over a short amount of time.  i had
> been happy with comcast but this is not cool.
>
> it also seems that they have reduced my upload speed from 4mb to 1.5mb
> ... but i'll have to do some more testing to verify.
>
> might be time to increase my DSL circuit.  i have always had a slow
> 1.5mb DSL line as a backup, since my wife and i both work from home, and
> both our jobs rely on internet connectivity, i felt it worth the extra
> $20 a month for a slow backup line.  it actually comes in handy about
> 3-4 times a year, as my comcast line will go down for 1-3 days a couple
> of times during the year ... usually due to the local neighbourhood
> comcast visit that screws up something for the entire neighbourhood
> until i call and complain - like this weekend!
>
> might also have to look at the business comacast offering - faster and
> supposedly no limits or restrictions.  anybody have that?  i live in
> burnsville so any feed back regarding the comcast business offering
> would be useful.
>
> thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
jason
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Feb  9 10:33:24 2009
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:33:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <6eb23c4e0902090825y592fd624nbcc904c80e98dddd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<6eb23c4e0902090825y592fd624nbcc904c80e98dddd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902091032180.25205@dragon>

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009, jason reynolds wrote:

> We had comcast business


I was going to point that out - Comcast Business doesn't cost a lot more 
than regular comcast and in theory shouldn't have any limitations.


-Yaron

--


From swaite at sbn-services.com  Mon Feb  9 10:46:07 2009
From: swaite at sbn-services.com (swaite at sbn-services.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:46:07 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <20090209164607.nhssl1dl3oook8g4@webmail.sbn-services.com>

Welcome to the Comcast Haters Club. Believe me, you certainly are not  
alone. Pretty simple to figure out, they sell you the idea of great  
speeds, but just don't bother to tell you that your not suppose to use  
it. Too cheap to invest in infrastructure, so the alternative is  
basically to cancel anyone who takes advantage of what they are paying  
for. Look around the net and you will find lots of Comcast haters who  
have had their accounts canceled for usage.

I myself got my account temporarily suspended a year ago. I had no  
service, thought I was maybe late in payment. Checked, payment was  
made so I called them. After a very long run around I finally talked  
to someone who explained I had excessive usage. I had about 120GB  
month transfer between home and office. Basically most days I worked  
from home just using a VPN, and transferred files and backups. Their  
solution was to try and sell me Comcast business for home. Sorry, but  
if I stay at home and use my phone...do I need a business phone line  
to make calls? No, never had Qwest complain about my phone usage.

You might want to consider waiting for Fiber to reach you. From what I  
read after my problems with Comcast, I got the feeling Fiber is going  
to be the future unless cable changes their model. Most importantly, I  
read interviews with Verizon where they specifically addressed what  
cable companies like Comcast do, and they stated quite clearly this  
will not be an issue with fiber. Problem is we really do not have  
honest to good competition.

I simply can not understand why cable can not be opened up like the  
telephone system was. Can anyone explain that? Where I live I have  
gone through 2 different cable companies, so it is not like Comcast  
can lay claim to the infrastructure as theirs, since they bought this  
area from Time Warner. They really need to open this up, because it is  
ridiculous the prices now. $60+ for basic commercial supported cable!  
For $60 I should be getting commercial free movie channels. I do  
believe that part of the deal they make to carry each channel, Comcast  
gets their own time slots they can advertise and re-sell.

Quoting Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>:

> well, they just did it to me!  they are now blocking port 25!  i called
> and complained and they say - that they saw 5,000 emails or more come
> from my cable modem on a single day.  so they are preventing that port
> now - and will not fix it.
>
> i know my system isn't sending that - i have no windows boxes, and the
> majority of my traffic is sent via a VPN.  i did however download about
> 500gb of corp data to my fileserver ( i work for red hat - need to
> synchronize all the software, etc) - and i'm sure that is what they
> flagged me - a large amount of data over a short amount of time.  i had
> been happy with comcast but this is not cool.
>
> it also seems that they have reduced my upload speed from 4mb to 1.5mb
> ... but i'll have to do some more testing to verify.
>
> might be time to increase my DSL circuit.  i have always had a slow
> 1.5mb DSL line as a backup, since my wife and i both work from home, and
> both our jobs rely on internet connectivity, i felt it worth the extra
> $20 a month for a slow backup line.  it actually comes in handy about
> 3-4 times a year, as my comcast line will go down for 1-3 days a couple
> of times during the year ... usually due to the local neighbourhood
> comcast visit that screws up something for the entire neighbourhood
> until i call and complain - like this weekend!
>
> might also have to look at the business comacast offering - faster and
> supposedly no limits or restrictions.  anybody have that?  i live in
> burnsville so any feed back regarding the comcast business offering
> would be useful.
>
> thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>






From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Mon Feb  9 11:25:53 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:25:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <20090209164607.nhssl1dl3oook8g4@webmail.sbn-services.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<20090209164607.nhssl1dl3oook8g4@webmail.sbn-services.com>
Message-ID: <041150F8-5A23-447A-A64D-AC0BA8FEFF35@secure-computing.net>

On Feb 9, 2009, at 10:46 AM, swaite at sbn-services.com wrote:

> Welcome to the Comcast Haters Club. Believe me, you certainly are not
> alone. Pretty simple to figure out, they sell you the idea of great
> speeds, but just don't bother to tell you that your not suppose to use
> it. Too cheap to invest in infrastructure, so the alternative is
> basically to cancel anyone who takes advantage of what they are paying
> for. Look around the net and you will find lots of Comcast haters who
> have had their accounts canceled for usage.
>
> I myself got my account temporarily suspended a year ago. I had no
> service, thought I was maybe late in payment. Checked, payment was
> made so I called them. After a very long run around I finally talked
> to someone who explained I had excessive usage. I had about 120GB
> month transfer between home and office. Basically most days I worked
> from home just using a VPN, and transferred files and backups. Their
> solution was to try and sell me Comcast business for home. Sorry, but
> if I stay at home and use my phone...do I need a business phone line
> to make calls? No, never had Qwest complain about my phone usage.
>
> You might want to consider waiting for Fiber to reach you. From what I
> read after my problems with Comcast, I got the feeling Fiber is going
> to be the future unless cable changes their model. Most importantly, I
> read interviews with Verizon where they specifically addressed what
> cable companies like Comcast do, and they stated quite clearly this
> will not be an issue with fiber. Problem is we really do not have
> honest to good competition.
>
> I simply can not understand why cable can not be opened up like the
> telephone system was. Can anyone explain that? Where I live I have
> gone through 2 different cable companies, so it is not like Comcast
> can lay claim to the infrastructure as theirs, since they bought this
> area from Time Warner. They really need to open this up, because it is
> ridiculous the prices now. $60+ for basic commercial supported cable!
> For $60 I should be getting commercial free movie channels. I do
> believe that part of the deal they make to carry each channel, Comcast
> gets their own time slots they can advertise and re-sell.

There is a fair amount of uneducated statement of so-called 'fact' in  
your email message.  Fibre doesn't fix the over-selling of bandwidth  
at the higher end.  Fibre, DSL, dial-up, and coaxial cabling are  
simply mediums of transport, with varying technological limitations on  
bandwidth.  This has less than nothing to do with who's connected at  
the other end.  It's easy for Sprint, or whomever, to claim they won't  
have the same policy as Comcast, but they don't have the volume  
Comcast does, either, on their residential/retail side.  I'm not a  
Comcast proxy, or shill, but get some things straight.  Over selling  
of bandwidth is common.  It's easier to upset the 1% of your high-use  
customer base, than allow them to affect the other 99% of people on  
their node.

In regards to your last paragraph, choose satellite, or over-the-air  
for your TV viewing.  The fact is, they're charging you $60 for X  
service.  Either you find value in that, and pay for it, or you  
don't.  There are other alternatives, as well, such as online content  
via various hardware such as Popcorn Hour (http:// 
www.popcornhour.com/) or Netflix.

/rant
---
Eric Crist







From mike at mikerochford.com  Wed Feb  4 09:13:52 2009
From: mike at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:13:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] sun computer
In-Reply-To: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
References: <0016e64af2aeab1eec046208de80@google.com>
Message-ID: <4989B0B0.2000803@mikerochford.com>

Does a e250 count? it has no hard drive.

Thoth.Serath at gmail.com wrote:
> does anyone have a sun microsystems computer they can part with?
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From bob at grunners.com  Mon Feb  9 12:58:17 2009
From: bob at grunners.com (Bob De Mars)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:58:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>

They blocked my port 25 a couple weeks ago as well.  I do have a low
volume mail server running at home, but still.....wtf.....

I also called to complain, and they advised that I am a spammer.  They
mentioned that is the traffic on 25 drops to a level they consider
acceptable then 25 would open up in 48 - 72 hours.  I shutdown my mail
server temporarily, but it is not more than 2 weeks latter, and it is
still blocked.

I am going to miss my mail server :(


 
Bob De Mars
T: 651 925 1510       bob at grunners.com
Cell: 612 850 6940   www.grunners.com

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Marc Skinner
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:54 AM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another

well, they just did it to me!  they are now blocking port 25!  i called
and complained and they say - that they saw 5,000 emails or more come
from my cable modem on a single day.  so they are preventing that port
now - and will not fix it.

i know my system isn't sending that - i have no windows boxes, and the
majority of my traffic is sent via a VPN.  i did however download about
500gb of corp data to my fileserver ( i work for red hat - need to
synchronize all the software, etc) - and i'm sure that is what they
flagged me - a large amount of data over a short amount of time.  i had
been happy with comcast but this is not cool.

it also seems that they have reduced my upload speed from 4mb to 1.5mb
... but i'll have to do some more testing to verify.

might be time to increase my DSL circuit.  i have always had a slow
1.5mb DSL line as a backup, since my wife and i both work from home, and
both our jobs rely on internet connectivity, i felt it worth the extra
$20 a month for a slow backup line.  it actually comes in handy about
3-4 times a year, as my comcast line will go down for 1-3 days a couple
of times during the year ... usually due to the local neighbourhood
comcast visit that screws up something for the entire neighbourhood
until i call and complain - like this weekend!

might also have to look at the business comacast offering - faster and
supposedly no limits or restrictions.  anybody have that?  i live in
burnsville so any feed back regarding the comcast business offering
would be useful. 

thanks!

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 13:26:40 2009
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <7A8742C0-5841-4449-AA52-52E7061B2261@gmail.com>

Places like www.dyndns.com will redirect / hop your email and act as a  
relay so you can use a different port if you want. they don't cost  
much iirc.
I'm on business class so it has been a while.

Chris Smith

On Feb 9, 2009, at 1:58 PM, Bob De Mars wrote:

> They blocked my port 25 a couple weeks ago as well.  I do have a low
> volume mail server running at home, but still.....wtf.....
>
> I also called to complain, and they advised that I am a spammer.  They
> mentioned that is the traffic on 25 drops to a level they consider
> acceptable then 25 would open up in 48 - 72 hours.  I shutdown my mail
> server temporarily, but it is not more than 2 weeks latter, and it is
> still blocked.
>
> I am going to miss my mail server :(
>
>
>
> Bob De Mars
> T: 651 925 1510       bob at grunners.com
> Cell: 612 850 6940   www.grunners.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Marc Skinner
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:54 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
>
> well, they just did it to me!  they are now blocking port 25!  i  
> called
> and complained and they say - that they saw 5,000 emails or more come
> from my cable modem on a single day.  so they are preventing that port
> now - and will not fix it.
>
> i know my system isn't sending that - i have no windows boxes, and the
> majority of my traffic is sent via a VPN.  i did however download  
> about
> 500gb of corp data to my fileserver ( i work for red hat - need to
> synchronize all the software, etc) - and i'm sure that is what they
> flagged me - a large amount of data over a short amount of time.  i  
> had
> been happy with comcast but this is not cool.
>
> it also seems that they have reduced my upload speed from 4mb to 1.5mb
> ... but i'll have to do some more testing to verify.
>
> might be time to increase my DSL circuit.  i have always had a slow
> 1.5mb DSL line as a backup, since my wife and i both work from home,  
> and
> both our jobs rely on internet connectivity, i felt it worth the extra
> $20 a month for a slow backup line.  it actually comes in handy about
> 3-4 times a year, as my comcast line will go down for 1-3 days a  
> couple
> of times during the year ... usually due to the local neighbourhood
> comcast visit that screws up something for the entire neighbourhood
> until i call and complain - like this weekend!
>
> might also have to look at the business comacast offering - faster and
> supposedly no limits or restrictions.  anybody have that?  i live in
> burnsville so any feed back regarding the comcast business offering
> would be useful.
>
> thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu  Mon Feb  9 13:29:09 2009
From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 13:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009, Bob De Mars wrote:

> They blocked my port 25 a couple weeks ago as well.  I do have a low 
> volume mail server running at home, but still.....wtf.....
>
> I also called to complain, and they advised that I am a spammer.  They 
> mentioned that is the traffic on 25 drops to a level they consider 
> acceptable then 25 would open up in 48 - 72 hours.  I shutdown my mail 
> server temporarily, but it is not more than 2 weeks latter, and it is 
> still blocked.
>
> I am going to miss my mail server :(


I believe that they lie to customers about their policies.  They offer a 
service that they do not provide.  They also increased my monthly fees 
quite massively in the past few years.  Maybe the service got faster, but 
I didn't care.  I'd rather have it slower and pay less, but they didnt' 
ask.  So of course I am seeking other providers.

Mike


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Feb 10 10:52:03 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:52:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net><1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>

> I believe that they lie to customers about their policies.  They offer a 
> service that they do not provide.  They also increased my monthly fees 
> quite massively in the past few years.  Maybe the service got faster, but 
> I didn't care.  I'd rather have it slower and pay less, but they didnt' 
> ask.  So of course I am seeking other providers.


DSL - slower but cheaper plus you have a wider choice of ISP in most areas.



From cwgriesel at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 11:10:03 2009
From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:10:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>

We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone infrastructure
is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service, and residential
service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all Comcast's fault,
the city council could take a little leadership on broadband access for
Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots with Comcast because they
get their community-access cable services and infrastructure from Comcast.
I wonder what other benefits the council gets from Comcast that they make us
continue to pay Comcast $60 per month for their marginal internet services,
but that's the state of affairs right now.

Curtis

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> > I believe that they lie to customers about their policies.  They offer a
> > service that they do not provide.  They also increased my monthly fees
> > quite massively in the past few years.  Maybe the service got faster, but
> > I didn't care.  I'd rather have it slower and pay less, but they didnt'
> > ask.  So of course I am seeking other providers.
>
>
> DSL - slower but cheaper plus you have a wider choice of ISP in most areas.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From scott at dier.name  Tue Feb 10 11:23:34 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:23:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>
	<7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60902100923o3c989686j4862200712ea32be@mail.gmail.com>

Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without video,
there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:

> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone infrastructure
> is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service, and residential
> service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all Comcast's fault,
> the city council could take a little leadership on broadband access for
> Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots with Comcast because they
> get their community-access cable services and infrastructure from Comcast.
> I wonder what other benefits the council gets from Comcast that they make us
> continue to pay Comcast $60 per month for their marginal internet services,
> but that's the state of affairs right now.
>
>

-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
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From cwgriesel at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 12:59:43 2009
From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:59:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <51d20ae60902100923o3c989686j4862200712ea32be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>
	<7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<51d20ae60902100923o3c989686j4862200712ea32be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c@mail.gmail.com>

Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?

Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in 8601
Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see that
the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service they
charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per month
for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at $60
per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question, they
try to upsell me to a more expensive package.

If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month on
my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.

Curits

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:

> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without video,
> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service, and
>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all
>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots with
>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council gets
>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month for
>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs right now.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>
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From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com  Tue Feb 10 13:23:18 2009
From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:23:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCAB2A@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>

I was involved in bring cable to New Prague many years ago.

 

In addition to granting the city one or more channels for their own use
(it costs the cable company little or nothing to do this), the cable
service provider normally pays the city a franchise fee.  It's probably
listed seperatly on your monthly bill.

 

It may also pay a fee for use of any utility poles that it uses for it's
cabling throughout the city.

 

Larry

 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Griesel
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:10 AM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another

 

We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service,
and residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not
all Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots
with Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council
gets from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per
month for their marginal internet services, but that's the state of
affairs right now.

Curtis

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com>
wrote:

> I believe that they lie to customers about their policies.  They offer
a
> service that they do not provide.  They also increased my monthly fees
> quite massively in the past few years.  Maybe the service got faster,
but
> I didn't care.  I'd rather have it slower and pay less, but they
didnt'
> ask.  So of course I am seeking other providers.



DSL - slower but cheaper plus you have a wider choice of ISP in most
areas.



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

 

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From scott at dier.name  Tue Feb 10 13:56:57 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:56:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>
	<7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<51d20ae60902100923o3c989686j4862200712ea32be@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60902101156k2f819db6g36841289eff349f7@mail.gmail.com>

You call them and ask for the economy tier, it should be on the rate card
you get every year (usually alongside the 'weve increased your prices mail')

The website is worthless, they don't advertise half the options there.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:

> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
>
> Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in 8601
> Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see that
> the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
> cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service they
> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
> watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per month
> for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at $60
> per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question, they
> try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
>
> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month on
> my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
> Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
>
> Curits
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>
>> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without video,
>> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service, and
>>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all
>>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
>>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots with
>>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
>>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council gets
>>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month for
>>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs right now.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>>
>
>


-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
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From cwgriesel at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 14:50:45 2009
From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:50:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <51d20ae60902101156k2f819db6g36841289eff349f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>
	<7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<51d20ae60902100923o3c989686j4862200712ea32be@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c@mail.gmail.com>
	<51d20ae60902101156k2f819db6g36841289eff349f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f246bf00902101250i7f05088fg33e19a6654bf148c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it.  Ya know, they don't even offer and
"economy tier" when you call to ask for service -- maybe you have to ask for
it explicitly.  And if they only put in on the rate card, how is a new
subscriber supposed to know it exists?  You don't get a rate card until
after you subscribe.  Obviously they are trying to hide it.

I'll look into it and let you know what I find out.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:

> You call them and ask for the economy tier, it should be on the rate card
> you get every year (usually alongside the 'weve increased your prices mail')
>
> The website is worthless, they don't advertise half the options there.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
>>
>> Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in 8601
>> Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see that
>> the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
>> cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service they
>> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
>> watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per month
>> for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at $60
>> per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question, they
>> try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
>>
>> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month
>> on my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
>> Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
>>
>> Curits
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>>
>>> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without video,
>>> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>>>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service, and
>>>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all
>>>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
>>>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots with
>>>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
>>>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council gets
>>>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month for
>>>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs right now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>
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From cwgriesel at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 15:00:51 2009
From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:00:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <7f246bf00902101250i7f05088fg33e19a6654bf148c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>
	<BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>
	<7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<51d20ae60902100923o3c989686j4862200712ea32be@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c@mail.gmail.com>
	<51d20ae60902101156k2f819db6g36841289eff349f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f246bf00902101250i7f05088fg33e19a6654bf148c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f246bf00902101300n15fdab1dvafb3b293e8cc13fb@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, I just called Comcast so they could tell me about this plan.  They
weren't even going to mention it but I asked for the "economy tier".  Turns
out the cost is $40 per month for 1mbps/384k without cable.  Still a little
steep for that level of service, but its good to know there is an option for
under $60 per month.

thanks,
Curtis

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it.  Ya know, they don't even offer and
> "economy tier" when you call to ask for service -- maybe you have to ask for
> it explicitly.  And if they only put in on the rate card, how is a new
> subscriber supposed to know it exists?  You don't get a rate card until
> after you subscribe.  Obviously they are trying to hide it.
>
> I'll look into it and let you know what I find out.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>
>> You call them and ask for the economy tier, it should be on the rate card
>> you get every year (usually alongside the 'weve increased your prices mail')
>>
>> The website is worthless, they don't advertise half the options there.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
>>>
>>> Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in 8601
>>> Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see that
>>> the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
>>> cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service they
>>> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
>>> watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per month
>>> for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at $60
>>> per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question, they
>>> try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
>>>
>>> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month
>>> on my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
>>> Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
>>>
>>> Curits
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without
>>>> video, there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>>>>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service, and
>>>>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all
>>>>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
>>>>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots with
>>>>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
>>>>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council gets
>>>>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month for
>>>>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs right now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>>
>
>
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From dan.smith225 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 15:05:18 2009
From: dan.smith225 at gmail.com (Dan Smith)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:05:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
Message-ID: <156904000902101305p5b3f5cdejaf9adc8b1eabc83@mail.gmail.com>

I am looking at moving my service to Visi and bundle it with Qwest.  The
main reason is, though I have yet to be effected by this, I am dabbling more
with linux and unix in my spare time and will eventually be finishing a
server that I would like to actually use on the internet with out having my
service locked down, because of port restrictions.

My question to TCLUG, is... Has anyone heard or experanced isseus with Visi
& or Qwest?  I do live in Downtown St.Paul (Actually 4 blocks from the visi
data center), so I am figuring that I'm kinda trapped for ISP's on the cable
side of things.

Thanks!!

-
Dan

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM, <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:

> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
>        tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: comcast strikes another (Curtis Griesel)
>   2. Re: comcast strikes another (Larry R. Pint)
>   3. Re: comcast strikes another (Scott Dier)
>   4. Re: comcast strikes another (Curtis Griesel)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:59:43 -0600
> From: Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
> To: Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>, TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
>
> Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in 8601
> Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see
> that
> the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
> cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service they
> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
> watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per
> month
> for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at $60
> per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question, they
> try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
>
> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month on
> my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
> Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
>
> Curits
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>
> > Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without video,
> > there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
> >> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service,
> and
> >> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all
> >> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
> >> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots
> with
> >> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
> >> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council
> gets
> >> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month for
> >> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs right
> now.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:23:18 -0600
> From: "Larry R. Pint" <Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
> To: "TCLUG List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <
> AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCAB2A at exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I was involved in bring cable to New Prague many years ago.
>
>
>
> In addition to granting the city one or more channels for their own use
> (it costs the cable company little or nothing to do this), the cable
> service provider normally pays the city a franchise fee.  It's probably
> listed seperatly on your monthly bill.
>
>
>
> It may also pay a fee for use of any utility poles that it uses for it's
> cabling throughout the city.
>
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Griesel
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:10 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
>
>
>
> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service,
> and residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not
> all Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots
> with Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council
> gets from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per
> month for their marginal internet services, but that's the state of
> affairs right now.
>
> Curtis
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I believe that they lie to customers about their policies.  They offer
> a
> > service that they do not provide.  They also increased my monthly fees
> > quite massively in the past few years.  Maybe the service got faster,
> but
> > I didn't care.  I'd rather have it slower and pay less, but they
> didnt'
> > ask.  So of course I am seeking other providers.
>
>
>
> DSL - slower but cheaper plus you have a wider choice of ISP in most
> areas.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:56:57 -0600
> From: Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
> To: Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>, TCLUG List
>        <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <51d20ae60902101156k2f819db6g36841289eff349f7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> You call them and ask for the economy tier, it should be on the rate card
> you get every year (usually alongside the 'weve increased your prices
> mail')
>
> The website is worthless, they don't advertise half the options there.
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
> >
> > Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in 8601
> > Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see
> that
> > the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
> > cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service they
> > charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
> > watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per
> month
> > for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at $60
> > per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question,
> they
> > try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
> >
> > If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month
> on
> > my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
> > Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
> >
> > Curits
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
> >
> >> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without
> video,
> >> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
> >>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband
> service, and
> >>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not all
> >>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
> >>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots
> with
> >>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
> >>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council
> gets
> >>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month
> for
> >>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs right
> now.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090210/cf34c6ce/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:50:45 -0600
> From: Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
> To: Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> Cc: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <7f246bf00902101250i7f05088fg33e19a6654bf148c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it.  Ya know, they don't even offer and
> "economy tier" when you call to ask for service -- maybe you have to ask
> for
> it explicitly.  And if they only put in on the rate card, how is a new
> subscriber supposed to know it exists?  You don't get a rate card until
> after you subscribe.  Obviously they are trying to hide it.
>
> I'll look into it and let you know what I find out.
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>
> > You call them and ask for the economy tier, it should be on the rate card
> > you get every year (usually alongside the 'weve increased your prices
> mail')
> >
> > The website is worthless, they don't advertise half the options there.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
> >>
> >> Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in
> 8601
> >> Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see
> that
> >> the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
> >> cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service
> they
> >> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
> >> watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per
> month
> >> for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at
> $60
> >> per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question,
> they
> >> try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
> >>
> >> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month
> >> on my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
> >> Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
> >>
> >> Curits
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without
> video,
> >>> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
> >>>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband
> service, and
> >>>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not
> all
> >>>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
> >>>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in
> cahoots with
> >>>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
> >>>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council
> gets
> >>>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month
> for
> >>>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs
> right now.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 50, Issue 9
> *****************************************
>
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From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com  Tue Feb 10 15:21:32 2009
From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:21:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <156904000902101305p5b3f5cdejaf9adc8b1eabc83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCAB2B@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>

As it happens, Visi is going to be the guest speaker at a TCPC users
group meeting tonight.  See information below

 

General Meeting 

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 

at 7:00 PM 

 

VISI:

The Area's Largest Locally-Owned ISP

Location: Summit Place

8505 Flying Cloud Drive 

Eden Prairie, MN 55344

 

 

The February meeting will feature VISI, Minnesota's largest
locally-owned Internet hosting and connectivity provider. Founded in
1994 VISI offers ISP services (Internet Services Provider), colocation,
managed hosting and other Internet connectivity services. VISI serves
more than 10,000 business and residential customers throughout
Minnesota. Recently VISI moved their operations from the Plymouth
building in downtown Minneapolis to a newly remodeled updated location
in Eden Prairie, only a few miles from Summit Place where our group
holds its monthly meetings. Our presenters will include Chris Miller a
VISI account executive and Johnny Hatch, a VISI product manager.

 

Learn about SPAM, botnets and Security problems including best practices
and products from the ISP side of the business. What are ISPs doing to
combat the growing volume of SPAM? What are the best security practices
used by ISPs these days? Is your computer a Zombie and you are clueless?
What are the best practices members should use to minimize spam? What is
managed hosting and what are the benefits to you as a possible user? An
overview will be presented of their new Eden Prairie Tier 3 Data Center,
including data back up and data security. VISI will provide all
attending a souvenir. Bring your friends and questions and plan to
attend

 

 

 

Larry

 

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Dan Smith
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:05 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another

 

I am looking at moving my service to Visi and bundle it with Qwest.  The
main reason is, though I have yet to be effected by this, I am dabbling
more with linux and unix in my spare time and will eventually be
finishing a server that I would like to actually use on the internet
with out having my service locked down, because of port restrictions. 

My question to TCLUG, is... Has anyone heard or experanced isseus with
Visi & or Qwest?  I do live in Downtown St.Paul (Actually 4 blocks from
the visi data center), so I am figuring that I'm kinda trapped for ISP's
on the cable side of things.

Thanks!!

-
Dan

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM, <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org>
wrote:

Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
       tclug-list at mn-linux.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
       tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
       tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Re: comcast strikes another (Curtis Griesel)
  2. Re: comcast strikes another (Larry R. Pint)
  3. Re: comcast strikes another (Scott Dier)
  4. Re: comcast strikes another (Curtis Griesel)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:59:43 -0600
From: Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
To: Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>, TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID:
       <7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?

Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in 8601
Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will see
that
the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month
cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service
they
charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I don't
watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per
month
for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at
$60
per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question,
they
try to upsell me to a more expensive package.

If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per month
on
my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.

Curits

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:

> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without
video,
> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel
<cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband
service, and
>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not
all
>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in
cahoots with
>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the
council gets
>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month
for
>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs
right now.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:23:18 -0600
From: "Larry R. Pint" <Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
To: "TCLUG List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID:
 
<AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCAB2A at exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I was involved in bring cable to New Prague many years ago.



In addition to granting the city one or more channels for their own use
(it costs the cable company little or nothing to do this), the cable
service provider normally pays the city a franchise fee.  It's probably
listed seperatly on your monthly bill.



It may also pay a fee for use of any utility poles that it uses for it's
cabling throughout the city.



Larry



-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Curtis Griesel
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:10 AM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another



We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband service,
and residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not
all Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots
with Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the council
gets from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per
month for their marginal internet services, but that's the state of
affairs right now.

Curtis

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com>
wrote:

> I believe that they lie to customers about their policies.  They offer
a
> service that they do not provide.  They also increased my monthly fees
> quite massively in the past few years.  Maybe the service got faster,
but
> I didn't care.  I'd rather have it slower and pay less, but they
didnt'
> ask.  So of course I am seeking other providers.



DSL - slower but cheaper plus you have a wider choice of ISP in most
areas.



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:56:57 -0600
From: Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
To: Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>, TCLUG List
       <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID:
       <51d20ae60902101156k2f819db6g36841289eff349f7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

You call them and ask for the economy tier, it should be on the rate
card
you get every year (usually alongside the 'weve increased your prices
mail')

The website is worthless, they don't advertise half the options there.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Curtis Griesel
<cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:

> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
>
> Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in
8601
> Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will
see that
> the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per
month
> cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service
they
> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I
don't
> watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60 per
month
> for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at
$60
> per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor question,
they
> try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
>
> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per
month on
> my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
> Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
>
> Curits
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>
>> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without
video,
>> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel
<cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband
service, and
>>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not
all
>>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
>>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in
cahoots with
>>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
>>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the
council gets
>>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per month
for
>>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs
right now.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>>
>
>


--
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:50:45 -0600
From: Curtis Griesel <cwgriesel at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
To: Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
Cc: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Message-ID:
       <7f246bf00902101250i7f05088fg33e19a6654bf148c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it.  Ya know, they don't even offer
and
"economy tier" when you call to ask for service -- maybe you have to ask
for
it explicitly.  And if they only put in on the rate card, how is a new
subscriber supposed to know it exists?  You don't get a rate card until
after you subscribe.  Obviously they are trying to hide it.

I'll look into it and let you know what I find out.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:

> You call them and ask for the economy tier, it should be on the rate
card
> you get every year (usually alongside the 'weve increased your prices
mail')
>
> The website is worthless, they don't advertise half the options there.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Curtis Griesel
<cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
>>
>> Go to www.comcast.com, click on Shop / High-speed internet, type in
8601
>> Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my block in Bloomington, and you will
see that
>> the cheapest package is $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per
month
>> cable TV subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service
they
>> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I
don't
>> watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay $60
per month
>> for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle to keep it at
$60
>> per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for a minor
question, they
>> try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
>>
>> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per
month
>> on my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb of the
>> Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
>>
>> Curits
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>>
>>> Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without
video,
>>> there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel
<cwgriesel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>>>> infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on broadband
service, and
>>>> residential service starts at $60 per month.  Of course this is not
all
>>>> Comcast's fault, the city council could take a little leadership on
>>>> broadband access for Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in
cahoots with
>>>> Comcast because they get their community-access cable services and
>>>> infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits the
council gets
>>>> from Comcast that they make us continue to pay Comcast $60 per
month for
>>>> their marginal internet services, but that's the state of affairs
right now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>
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_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 50, Issue 9
*****************************************

 

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From danyberg at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 15:20:08 2009
From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:20:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HD is read-only
Message-ID: <5daafeb10902101320l125528et18acb12d3fea5e08@mail.gmail.com>

I Cannot boot my Fedora 8 computer, the entire drive is in read-only mode
and trying the rescue disk gets an error and only mounts a couple
directories.

I'm pretty sure it's because I changed my smartd.conf but I can't get to it
to change it back now.
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Tue Feb 10 18:34:29 2009
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:34:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>	<alpine.GSO.2.00.0902091326300.25170@taxa.epi.umn.edu>	<BCACF41BDC6E4E44ABB9875A9490E6FF@usicorp.usinternet.com>	<7f246bf00902100910o4aefe044nadbff7a09e943bfa@mail.gmail.com>	<51d20ae60902100923o3c989686j4862200712ea32be@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f246bf00902101059t27dbb986h1574fc685d6be71c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49921D15.9060607@mtu.net>

You can save $5/month by getting Basic I cable and cable because Basic I
costs $10/month and you get $15/month taken off your internet bill if
you have any cable service. So my bill per month is $58 including all
taxes and fees.

Curtis Griesel wrote:
> Do you know about some secret plan that is not advertised somewhere?
>
> Go to www.comcast.com <http://www.comcast.com>, click on Shop /
> High-speed internet, type in 8601 Thomas Ave S, 55431, which is my
> block in Bloomington, and you will see that the cheapest package is
> $45 per month, but that requires a $15 per month cable TV
> subscription.  If you try to order it without cable service they
> charge you $60 per month.  I know, because that is what I pay.  I
> don't watch TV so the cable TV is irrelevant for me -- I have to pay
> $60 per month for marginal broadband service.  And I have to struggle
> to keep it at $60 per month because everytime I call Comcast, even for
> a minor question, they try to upsell me to a more expensive package.
>
> If there is some secret promotional code get broadband for $25 per
> month on my block, please let me know.  For now, I'm under the thumb
> of the Comcast/Bloomington City broadband monopoly.
>
> Curits
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name
> <mailto:scott at dier.name>> wrote:
>
>     Residential service is available for less than $60 a month without
>     video, there is a 1mbps/384k tier available.  I believe its ~$25/mo.
>
>
>     On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Curtis Griesel
>     <cwgriesel at gmail.com <mailto:cwgriesel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         We can't get DSL in my area of Bloomington because the phone
>         infrastructure is too old.  Comcast has a monopoly on
>         broadband service, and residential service starts at $60 per
>         month.  Of course this is not all Comcast's fault, the city
>         council could take a little leadership on broadband access for
>         Bloomington.  But I suspect the city is in cahoots with
>         Comcast because they get their community-access cable services
>         and infrastructure from Comcast.  I wonder what other benefits
>         the council gets from Comcast that they make us continue to
>         pay Comcast $60 per month for their marginal internet
>         services, but that's the state of affairs right now.
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Scott Dier <scott at dier.name <mailto:scott at dier.name>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39

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From jhawley at hissingdragon.net  Wed Feb 11 09:31:50 2009
From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:31:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HD is read-only
In-Reply-To: <5daafeb10902101320l125528et18acb12d3fea5e08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5daafeb10902101320l125528et18acb12d3fea5e08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090211153150.GA23601@steelix.hissingdragon.net>

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 03:20:08PM -0600, swede wrote:
> I Cannot boot my Fedora 8 computer, the entire drive is in read-only mode and

Is boot up detecting drive errors?  Does it get to a point where its asking for the root user to log in and run fsck?  If so, it does mount root as read only.

> trying the rescue disk gets an error and only mounts a couple directories.

Sounds like harddrive errors.  I hear Spinrite does wonders, though its not free.  (http://grc.com)

> 
> I'm pretty sure it's because I changed my smartd.conf but I can't get to it to
> change it back now.

Don't know why that would have anything to do with it.  A rescue disk would not be reading any smartd config info.  Or do you mean you messed with hdparm settings?  I suppose that might potentially muck up a drive.

~jh

> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From tclug at jfoo.org  Wed Feb 11 09:59:31 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:59:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>
Message-ID: <20090211095931.3e8467ff.tclug@jfoo.org>

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:43:22 -0600
Dan Rue <drue at therub.org> wrote:

> At 5:31:30 localtime, not only is it happy hour at Grumpy's, it is also
> 1234567890 seconds since the unix epoch.
> 
> Please join us in celebration at Grumpy's on Washington[1] starting at
> 5:31!

I'm glad for the chance to meet in person some of the people on
this list. How will I recognize y'all?

j

-- 
John Gateley <tclug at jfoo.org>


From austad at signal15.com  Wed Feb 11 12:05:13 2009
From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:05:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Document development/repository system
Message-ID: <C2A2C28D-EBA0-4566-8AD7-EEBC764853CC@signal15.com>

I'm looking for a web based document repository/version control/ 
development system.  I want have premade sections that usually go into  
a document that I can keep updated with current data and information.   
I want to be able to predefine outlines for different types of  
documents, and when I select one, it will show me a list of which  
predefined sections are going to go into it, and I can modify  
appropriately.

Then, it would generate the document, section by section in a web  
page.  I can go into each text box, make changes as appropriate and  
save it.  Version control on my saves would be a plus.

When I'm ready to generate a printable document, it uses LaTex and a  
predefined style and generates a PDF.

I know this is a tall order.  Does anyone know if there is anything  
out there now that does something similar to this, or something which  
I could easily modify to make it do this?

--
~jay






From danyberg at gmail.com  Thu Feb 12 06:49:03 2009
From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:49:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HD is read-only
Message-ID: <5daafeb10902120449o3bfdd60ch2b00d8dfcf5ada45@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 03:20:08PM -0600, swede wrote:
> > I Cannot boot my Fedora 8 computer, the entire drive is in read-only mode
> and
>
> Is boot up detecting drive errors?  Does it get to a point where its asking
> for the root user to log in and run fsck?  If so, it does mount root as read
> only.
>
> > trying the rescue disk gets an error and only mounts a couple
> directories.
>
> Sounds like harddrive errors.  I hear Spinrite does wonders, though its not
> free.  (http://grc.com)
>
> >
> > I'm pretty sure it's because I changed my smartd.conf but I can't get to
> it to
> > change it back now.
>
> Don't know why that would have anything to do with it.  A rescue disk would
> not be reading any smartd config info.  Or do you mean you messed with
> hdparm settings?  I suppose that might potentially muck up a drive.
>
> ~jh
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> The HD errors are a possibility.  But I don't think so at this point.

When I edited the smartd.conf to get rid of an error that showed up in my
log files but otherwise made no difference I think I goofed.  I have
ordinary IDE drives, but Fedora called them SATA drives as in /dev/sda
instead of /dev/hda so I changed one line in the smartd.conf from /dev/hda
to /dev/sda.  I'm not sure but I think now that Fedora thought I now had a
SCSI drive there.  Now the data is gone and I'm just trying to get F10 to
install...  However, due to all the problems I'm running into getting it to
install, I'm guessing I  may have other hardware issues but I have not been
able to track them down yet.

But so far the drive has been reformatted during a new install of F8.  Some
issues seem to be around my nvidia geforce 6200 OC video card.

Thanks for all the other info I got that was off the list for some reason.
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From josh at radkeland.org  Thu Feb 12 07:50:01 2009
From: josh at radkeland.org (Joshua Radke)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:50:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] EDI Specialty?
Message-ID: <49942909.2000909@radkeland.org>

Greets!

Our company is currently under pressure from one of our large customers 
to implement 810/850/856 EDI communications.  I'm looking at a large 
range of potential solutions, and am interested in any local 
specialization in Free (as in freedom) solutions.  Given the price tag 
(and subscription fees) of canned solutions, it seems there must be a 
market for this type of geek.  Does anybody have this background, or 
know of a shop that does?

Thanks,

Josh


From jwreese0 at comcast.net  Thu Feb 12 13:02:51 2009
From: jwreese0 at comcast.net (John Reese)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:02:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Document development/repository system
Message-ID: <1234465371.19052.41.camel@opensuse>

Check out Plone, an open-source, community-supported Content Management
System built on top of Zope. A dozen national governments use Plone as
their institutional CMS. A good corporate example is Novell; most of
Novell's web presence runs on Plone instead of the CMS they own and
sell. Plone is built to cluster and scale, and it's basic operations are
rock solid.

Plone is a top-level framework that runs on top of Zope. Zope is a web
app server, so Plone runs Zope apps as plug-ins. There may be a hundred
(at least scores) of community-developed modules.

Plone has more to offer than Drupal, Joomla, or Alfresco, some of the
leading open-source CMSs, but there is a lot more to learn. Plone is
easy to set up and its basic functions are easy to manage, but if you
add a lot of functionality Plone gets complicated. Joomla, Drupal and
Alfresco are relatively simpler and have different look and feel. They
may have what you need, and you may prefer their simplicity/look/feel. 

You can check out reviews of other CMSs at:

http://cmsreview.net/

http://www.cmsreview.com/

http://www.cmswatch.com/


My favorite Plone resource sites:

http://www.plone.org/

http://planet.plone.org/

http://plope.com/

http://www.zope.org/

http://www.zopezen.org/

http://www.zopelabs.com/








From cwgriesel at gmail.com  Thu Feb 12 13:30:09 2009
From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:30:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Document development/repository system
In-Reply-To: <C2A2C28D-EBA0-4566-8AD7-EEBC764853CC@signal15.com>
References: <C2A2C28D-EBA0-4566-8AD7-EEBC764853CC@signal15.com>
Message-ID: <7f246bf00902121130n24bb49cci674004f290920f9f@mail.gmail.com>

I agree you could build something like this with one of the open source CMS
packages that are out there.

Personally, I would use Drupal, combined with its "Content Construction Kit"
"Views" "Diff" "DruTeX" and "PDF version" module.  You can define each
document type with its predefined sections as a custom content type.  Drupal
provides the functions to create, edit and save documents.  The Diff module
allows you to track revisions and revert to previous versions.  DruTeX and
PDF Version provide the LaTeX and PDF functionality you want.    As a plus,
you could easily use the same system to let other collaborate on the
documents as well.

Once you get going with the basic Drupal structure, you could easily pull
this together in an afternoon.

Curtis

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Jay Austad <austad at signal15.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for a web based document repository/version control/
> development system.  I want have premade sections that usually go into
> a document that I can keep updated with current data and information.
> I want to be able to predefine outlines for different types of
> documents, and when I select one, it will show me a list of which
> predefined sections are going to go into it, and I can modify
> appropriately.
>
> Then, it would generate the document, section by section in a web
> page.  I can go into each text box, make changes as appropriate and
> save it.  Version control on my saves would be a plus.
>
> When I'm ready to generate a printable document, it uses LaTex and a
> predefined style and generates a PDF.
>
> I know this is a tall order.  Does anyone know if there is anything
> out there now that does something similar to this, or something which
> I could easily modify to make it do this?
>
> --
> ~jay
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From drue at therub.org  Fri Feb 13 08:29:46 2009
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:29:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <20090211095931.3e8467ff.tclug@jfoo.org>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>
	<20090211095931.3e8467ff.tclug@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <20090213142946.GA13600@therub.org>

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 09:59:31AM -0600, John Gateley wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:43:22 -0600
> Dan Rue <drue at therub.org> wrote:
> 
> > At 5:31:30 localtime, not only is it happy hour at Grumpy's, it is also
> > 1234567890 seconds since the unix epoch.
> > 
> > Please join us in celebration at Grumpy's on Washington[1] starting at
> > 5:31!
> 
> I'm glad for the chance to meet in person some of the people on
> this list. How will I recognize y'all?

Hi John, 

Grumpy's isn't that big - it shouldn't be a problem to find the geekiest
group of guys in the place.

See you tonight!

Dan


From marc at e-skinner.net  Fri Feb 13 10:17:07 2009
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:17:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <20090213142946.GA13600@therub.org>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>	<20090211095931.3e8467ff.tclug@jfoo.org>
	<20090213142946.GA13600@therub.org>
Message-ID: <49959D03.20805@e-skinner.net>

just saw this:

http://www.1234567890day.com/

sadly i won't be able to attend.

have fun.



Dan Rue wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 09:59:31AM -0600, John Gateley wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:43:22 -0600
>> Dan Rue <drue at therub.org> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> At 5:31:30 localtime, not only is it happy hour at Grumpy's, it is also
>>> 1234567890 seconds since the unix epoch.
>>>
>>> Please join us in celebration at Grumpy's on Washington[1] starting at
>>> 5:31!
>>>       
>> I'm glad for the chance to meet in person some of the people on
>> this list. How will I recognize y'all?
>>     
>
> Hi John, 
>
> Grumpy's isn't that big - it shouldn't be a problem to find the geekiest
> group of guys in the place.
>
> See you tonight!
>
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From jwreese0 at comcast.net  Fri Feb 13 13:50:14 2009
From: jwreese0 at comcast.net (John Reese)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:50:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Document development/repository system
Message-ID: <1234554614.10283.10.camel@opensuse>

I agree with Curtis that Drupal should be near the top of anybody's CMS
list. It's written in PHP and the local community is much larger than
the Plone/Zope community. Drupal support would be superior to Plone,
which is written in Python and better represented in Europe and South
America.

FWIW, Plone has excellent version control systems (many, in fact),
excellent templating capabilities, and there are plenty of document
conversion modules. Specifically I remember seeing one or more PDF
generators.I think I have seen LaTEX and DocBook support, but it has
been awhile. There is a lot of XML support in the Plone community so you
could use that data format to shuttle between various markup languages.

JR



From scott at dier.name  Fri Feb 13 14:06:14 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:06:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Document development/repository system
In-Reply-To: <1234554614.10283.10.camel@opensuse>
References: <1234554614.10283.10.camel@opensuse>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60902131206i78e997f8k6d16788c019ce7f@mail.gmail.com>

The plone workflow systems are absolutely over-customizable, if you need to
figure out a very specialized way to approve changes, plone can do it.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 1:50 PM, John Reese <jwreese0 at comcast.net> wrote:

>
>
> FWIW, Plone has excellent version control systems (many, in fact),
> excellent templating capabilities, and there are plenty of document
> conversion modules. Specifically I remember seeing one or more PDF
> generators.I think I have seen LaTEX and DocBook support, but it has
> been awhile. There is a lot of XML support in the Plone community so you
> could use that data format to shuttle between various markup languages.
>
> JR
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 16:58:44 2009
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:58:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>
Message-ID: <65293fcc0902131458w59140dbk9f4a94cddbcd33e1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Dan Rue <drue at therub.org> wrote:

> It has come to my attention that we have a red letter date coming up.
>
> That's right - the stars are aligning next Friday, the 13th.
>
> Observe:
>
> $ date -r 1234567890
> Fri Feb 13 17:31:30 CST 2009
>
>
> At 5:31:30 localtime, not only is it happy hour at Grumpy's, it is also
> 1234567890 seconds since the unix epoch.


does this take leap seconds into account? :)

>
>
> Please join us in celebration at Grumpy's on Washington[1] starting at
> 5:31!
>
> Dan and some TCBUGgers
>
> [1]
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1111+Washington+Ave+S,+Minneapolis+MN&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.546728,69.960938&ie=UTF8&ll=44.973239,-93.25779&spn=0.036371,0.068321&z=14&layer=c&cbll=44.975284,-93.253101
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From kris.browne at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 17:06:00 2009
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (kris.browne at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:06:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Epoch party
Message-ID: <4995fd40.1f2d400a.0963.5794@mx.google.com>

So how do we recognize everyone?



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 23:11:06 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 23:11:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <49959D03.20805@e-skinner.net>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>
	<20090211095931.3e8467ff.tclug@jfoo.org>
	<20090213142946.GA13600@therub.org> <49959D03.20805@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902132306250.1151@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009, Marc Skinner wrote:

> just saw this:
>
> http://www.1234567890day.com/
>
> sadly i won't be able to attend.


Well, do I have just the thing for you.  Computer geeks love powers of 
two, so, what if the time were 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 ?  Wouldn't that be 
awesome?  OK...

$ date -d @1248163264
Tue Jul 21 03:01:04 CDT 2009

It will probably be warm, but it's a Monday night at 3 am!!  A good time 
to have a slice or a burger after a late-night drinking binge.  But with 
an excuse like this, who can resist the temptation?

Mike


From tclug at jfoo.org  Sat Feb 14 10:54:01 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:54:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902132306250.1151@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>	<20090211095931.3e8467ff.tclug@jfoo.org>	<20090213142946.GA13600@therub.org>
	<49959D03.20805@e-skinner.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0902132306250.1151@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4996F729.9030107@jfoo.org>

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009, Marc Skinner wrote:
> 
>> just saw this:
>>
>> http://www.1234567890day.com/
>>
>> sadly i won't be able to attend.

> $ date -d @1248163264
> Tue Jul 21 03:01:04 CDT 2009
> 

It was nice meeting you, Chris (and family) last night.

I was thinking of names for the day, the 1234567890 day
should be called Series of Tens Digits day.

Mike's day could be called Power Of Two days.

They'd be STD day and POT day for short.

And it finally proves wrong that old canard about
getting STD after going to the POT, clearly STD comes
before the POT.

j


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat Feb 14 13:36:05 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:36:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Red Letter Day
In-Reply-To: <4996F729.9030107@jfoo.org>
References: <20090203174322.GA56219@therub.org>
	<20090211095931.3e8467ff.tclug@jfoo.org>
	<20090213142946.GA13600@therub.org> <49959D03.20805@e-skinner.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0902132306250.1151@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4996F729.9030107@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902141332430.25028@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sat, 14 Feb 2009, John Gateley wrote:

> I was thinking of names for the day, the 1234567890 day should be called 
> Series of Tens Digits day.
>
> Mike's day could be called Power Of Two days.
>
> They'd be STD day and POT day for short.


This clearly suggests what people should be doing at these momentous 
moments.  POT day is coming...

$ date -d @1248163264
Tue Jul 21 03:01:04 CDT 2009

Is there going to be an ALC day?  Maybe a SEX day without STD?

Mike


From thoth.serath at gmail.com  Sat Feb 14 15:24:29 2009
From: thoth.serath at gmail.com (Chris G.)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:24:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] meeting last night
Message-ID: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>

what was the name of the guy from russia?  he was fun.  i enjoyed hearing
his opinions, no matter how wrong he was.  just kidding...  hope he comes to
more events, so whoever invited, i already forgot your name, him try to get
him to come to more.
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From markdeb.browne at comcast.net  Sat Feb 14 15:40:13 2009
From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:40:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] meeting last night
In-Reply-To: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08FBA48FF37A46299EC7AC07DAC846A7@AMD64>

Oleg?


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Chris G.
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:24 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] meeting last night


what was the name of the guy from russia?  he was fun.  i enjoyed hearing
his opinions, no matter how wrong he was.  just kidding...  hope he comes to
more events, so whoever invited, i already forgot your name, him try to get
him to come to more. 

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From markdeb.browne at comcast.net  Sat Feb 14 15:57:41 2009
From: markdeb.browne at comcast.net (Mark Browne)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:57:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 1234567890 meeting last night
In-Reply-To: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DFEA35C4649F40BAB3E86668F32CE0CD@AMD64>

All,
 
I took a photo of the meet-up at Grumpy's.  
 
Do you want it to put onthe site somewhere?
 
If so, can I have an address to mail it too? 
Or an FTP to upload it?
 
Mark Browne
 



From tclug at lizakowski.com  Sun Feb 15 00:33:35 2009
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:33:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 1234567890 meeting last night
In-Reply-To: <DFEA35C4649F40BAB3E86668F32CE0CD@AMD64>
References: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<DFEA35C4649F40BAB3E86668F32CE0CD@AMD64>
Message-ID: <200902150033.35597.tclug@lizakowski.com>


It might be easier to put it on flickr and send the link,

On Saturday 14 February 2009 3:57:41 pm Mark Browne wrote:
> All,
>
> I took a photo of the meet-up at Grumpy's.
>
> Do you want it to put onthe site somewhere?
>
> If so, can I have an address to mail it too?
> Or an FTP to upload it?
>
> Mark Browne
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From christophermsmith at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 13:10:58 2009
From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:10:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
In-Reply-To: <1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
References: <499051AA.7010509@e-skinner.net>
	<1684B45ED062854694DF88DB8A0C55B7022FBA79@lcldc01.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <4D2D04AD-6DCC-4249-8531-6FBF820A6953@gmail.com>

Places like www.dyndns.com will redirect / hop your email and act as a  
relay so you can use a different port if you want. they don't cost  
much iirc.
I'm on business class so it b
On Feb 9, 2009, at 1:58 PM, Bob De Mars wrote:

> They blocked my port 25 a couple weeks ago as well.  I do have a low
> volume mail server running at home, but still.....wtf.....
>
> I also called to complain, and they advised that I am a spammer.  They
> mentioned that is the traffic on 25 drops to a level they consider
> acceptable then 25 would open up in 48 - 72 hours.  I shutdown my mail
> server temporarily, but it is not more than 2 weeks latter, and it is
> still blocked.
>
> I am going to miss my mail server :(
>
>
>
> Bob De Mars
> T: 651 925 1510       bob at grunners.com
> Cell: 612 850 6940   www.grunners.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Marc Skinner
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:54 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: [tclug-list] comcast strikes another
>
> well, they just did it to me!  they are now blocking port 25!  i  
> called
> and complained and they say - that they saw 5,000 emails or more come
> from my cable modem on a single day.  so they are preventing that port
> now - and will not fix it.
>
> i know my system isn't sending that - i have no windows boxes, and the
> majority of my traffic is sent via a VPN.  i did however download  
> about
> 500gb of corp data to my fileserver ( i work for red hat - need to
> synchronize all the software, etc) - and i'm sure that is what they
> flagged me - a large amount of data over a short amount of time.  i  
> had
> been happy with comcast but this is not cool.
>
> it also seems that they have reduced my upload speed from 4mb to 1.5mb
> ... but i'll have to do some more testing to verify.
>
> might be time to increase my DSL circuit.  i have always had a slow
> 1.5mb DSL line as a backup, since my wife and i both work from home,  
> and
> both our jobs rely on internet connectivity, i felt it worth the extra
> $20 a month for a slow backup line.  it actually comes in handy about
> 3-4 times a year, as my comcast line will go down for 1-3 days a  
> couple
> of times during the year ... usually due to the local neighbourhood
> comcast visit that screws up something for the entire neighbourhood
> until i call and complain - like this weekend!
>
> might also have to look at the business comacast offering - faster and
> supposedly no limits or restrictions.  anybody have that?  i live in
> burnsville so any feed back regarding the comcast business offering
> would be useful.
>
> thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From jima at beer.tclug.org  Mon Feb 16 21:16:36 2009
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:16:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 1234567890 meeting last night
In-Reply-To: <200902150033.35597.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>	<DFEA35C4649F40BAB3E86668F32CE0CD@AMD64>
	<200902150033.35597.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <499A2C14.5030403@beer.tclug.org>

Jeremy wrote:
> It might be easier to put it on flickr and send the link,

  *muses over gallery.tclug.org*

      Jima


From tclug at lizakowski.com  Tue Feb 17 07:13:39 2009
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:13:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 1234567890 meeting last night
In-Reply-To: <499A2C14.5030403@beer.tclug.org>
References: <7c055dc50902141324yeb775f2s618fe58b81c086e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<200902150033.35597.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<499A2C14.5030403@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <200902170713.40095.tclug@lizakowski.com>


We were planning to update tclug.org a while ago, but there's a lot of details 
to address, and we needed some volunteers.  

My company does interactive web design, so we could definitely help out with 
graphics and technical stuff, but we don't have the bandwidth to do it all, so 
we would need volunteers who can stick with the project to completion.  Also, 
the current site is stable, so whatever would replace it needs to also be 
stable.

If there's interest, let me know.

Jeremy

http://GreenSpringDesign.com


On Monday 16 February 2009 9:16:36 pm Jima wrote:
> Jeremy wrote:
> > It might be easier to put it on flickr and send the link,
>
>   *muses over gallery.tclug.org*
>
>       Jima

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From admin at lctn.org  Tue Feb 17 14:55:19 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:55:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vsftpd config question
Message-ID: <499B2437.1000108@lctn.org>

I installed vsftp on an ubuntu box, and set it up for a single user to 
be able to move around the file system. They need to create folders in 
/var/www. This works for them via ssh, but not vi vsftp. Any idea what 
to change in vsftpd.conf to allow this?


From vc.lists at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 17:04:06 2009
From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:04:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
Message-ID: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>

One of the applications that I am working with requires a fairly unorthodox
network configuration. This machine is running Ubuntu 8.10 with all the
latest patches. This has multiple wired network interfaces.
The /etc/network/interfaces file is as under:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
        address 10.19.175.242
        netmask 255.255.255.240
        network 10.19.175.240
        broadcast 10.19.175.255
        gateway 10.19.175.241
        dns-nameservers 10.19.173.245

auto eth1
iface eth1 inet static
        address 192.168.164.2
        netmask 255.255.252.0

The output of netstat -nr is as under:

Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt
Iface
10.19.175.240   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.240 U         0 0          0
eth0
192.168.164.0   0.0.0.0         255.255.252.0   U         0 0          0
eth1
169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U         0 0          0
eth1
0.0.0.0         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0
eth0


The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
switch. Another machine of interest is also connected to this switch. Pings
from this other machine to the 192.168.164.2 interface are not returned.

If I were to do:

$ sudo route delete default device eth0
$ sudo route add default gw 192.168.164.1 device eth1

then the other machine is able to ping 192.168.164.2. Of course I lose the
ability to reach the 10.19.175.242 interface.


I tried the Fedora 10 Live distribution on the same machine. I used the
NetworkManager applet to first configure eth0, checked the connectivity to
that interface before configuring the eth1 interface. I lost connectivity to
the eth0 interface at this point. I then did the following:

# route delete default device eth1
# route add default gw 10.19.175.241 device eth0

and the routing table:

[root at localhost ~]# route
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
Iface
10.19.175.240   *               255.255.255.240 U     1      0        0
eth0
192.168.164.0   *               255.255.252.0   U     1      0        0
eth1
default         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0
eth0

And I was able to reach both the eth0 and eth1 interfaces at this point from
appropriate machines on the network.

I tried using a bootable USB Live Ubuntu 8.10, and I repeated the exact
steps I had performed with the F10 and I was only able to reach one of the
interfaces and not both at the same time. I can run tcpdump on the
interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.

Any idea why Ubuntu would behave differently? I'd appreciate any suggestions
on what I could try so that both interfaces are reachable simultaneously.

Thanks,
Venkat.
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From eric.beyer at lnxfrk.net  Tue Feb 17 17:01:19 2009
From: eric.beyer at lnxfrk.net (E. Beyer)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:01:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vsftpd config question
In-Reply-To: <499B2437.1000108@lctn.org>
References: <499B2437.1000108@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <74698f5a0902171501g59e5eb9pe2a581b9d02c4f6b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I installed vsftp on an ubuntu box, and set it up for a single user to
> be able to move around the file system. They need to create folders in
> /var/www. This works for them via ssh, but not vi vsftp. Any idea what
> to change in vsftpd.conf to allow this?
>
>
I'm going from memory here but I believe by default vsftp is setup to
be read only. Look for something like write_enable in the vsftp.conf
file and set it to yes.


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Feb 17 18:33:43 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:33:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vsftpd config question
In-Reply-To: <74698f5a0902171501g59e5eb9pe2a581b9d02c4f6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <499B2437.1000108@lctn.org>
	<74698f5a0902171501g59e5eb9pe2a581b9d02c4f6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <499B5767.2060401@lctn.org>

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From j at packetgod.com  Tue Feb 17 19:42:18 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:42:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>

What is the IP of the system trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface?
It sounds like the system may not have a route back to the client.  With the
default route pointing to the 10.19.175.241 address anything not in a local
subnet will get routed out that interface.

I've never seen Ubuntu behave differently than Fedora when it comes to
routing, not sure what else could be going on there if there are no
firewalls involved.

--j

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> One of the applications that I am working with requires a fairly unorthodox
> network configuration. This machine is running Ubuntu 8.10 with all the
> latest patches. This has multiple wired network interfaces.
> The /etc/network/interfaces file is as under:
>
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
>
> auto eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
>         address 10.19.175.242
>         netmask 255.255.255.240
>         network 10.19.175.240
>         broadcast 10.19.175.255
>         gateway 10.19.175.241
>         dns-nameservers 10.19.173.245
>
> auto eth1
> iface eth1 inet static
>         address 192.168.164.2
>         netmask 255.255.252.0
>
> The output of netstat -nr is as under:
>
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt
> Iface
> 10.19.175.240   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.240 U         0 0          0
> eth0
> 192.168.164.0   0.0.0.0         255.255.252.0   U         0 0          0
> eth1
> 169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U         0 0          0
> eth1
> 0.0.0.0         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0
> eth0
>
>
> The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
> switch. Another machine of interest is also connected to this switch. Pings
> from this other machine to the 192.168.164.2 interface are not returned.
>
> If I were to do:
>
> $ sudo route delete default device eth0
> $ sudo route add default gw 192.168.164.1 device eth1
>
> then the other machine is able to ping 192.168.164.2. Of course I lose the
> ability to reach the 10.19.175.242 interface.
>
>
> I tried the Fedora 10 Live distribution on the same machine. I used the
> NetworkManager applet to first configure eth0, checked the connectivity to
> that interface before configuring the eth1 interface. I lost connectivity to
> the eth0 interface at this point. I then did the following:
>
> # route delete default device eth1
> # route add default gw 10.19.175.241 device eth0
>
> and the routing table:
>
> [root at localhost ~]# route
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
> Iface
> 10.19.175.240   *               255.255.255.240 U     1      0        0
> eth0
> 192.168.164.0   *               255.255.252.0   U     1      0        0
> eth1
> default         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0
> eth0
>
> And I was able to reach both the eth0 and eth1 interfaces at this point
> from appropriate machines on the network.
>
> I tried using a bootable USB Live Ubuntu 8.10, and I repeated the exact
> steps I had performed with the F10 and I was only able to reach one of the
> interfaces and not both at the same time. I can run tcpdump on the
> interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
> interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.
>
> Any idea why Ubuntu would behave differently? I'd appreciate any
> suggestions on what I could try so that both interfaces are reachable
> simultaneously.
>
> Thanks,
> Venkat.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From marc at e-skinner.net  Tue Feb 17 20:44:49 2009
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:44:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vsftpd config question
In-Reply-To: <499B5767.2060401@lctn.org>
References: <499B2437.1000108@lctn.org>	<74698f5a0902171501g59e5eb9pe2a581b9d02c4f6b@mail.gmail.com>
	<499B5767.2060401@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <499B7621.9000104@e-skinner.net>

Is SELINUX enabled?  If so, either disable it or tweak the policies.

what are the file permissions on /var/www ?

also - what about "local_enable=YES"?



Raymond Norton wrote:
>
>> I'm going from memory here but I believe by default vsftp is setup to
>> be read only. Look for something like write_enable in the vsftp.conf
>> file and set it to yes.
>>
>>
>>   
>
> I have that enabled, and the user can create directories, and files in
> their home directory. They just can't create directories in /var/www,
> like they can when logged in via ssh.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From admin at lctn.org  Tue Feb 17 21:17:44 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:17:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vsftpd config question
In-Reply-To: <499B7621.9000104@e-skinner.net>
References: <499B2437.1000108@lctn.org>	<74698f5a0902171501g59e5eb9pe2a581b9d02c4f6b@mail.gmail.com>
	<499B5767.2060401@lctn.org> <499B7621.9000104@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <499B7DD8.3020302@lctn.org>

Marc Skinner wrote:
> Is SELINUX enabled?  If so, either disable it or tweak the policies.
>
> what are the file permissions on /var/www ?
>
> also - what about "local_enable=YES"?
>
>
>   
>

No SELINUX, and local_enable was set to "Yes"

I must have been day dreaming, and did not actually su to the user via 
ssh. Found a permission problem, fixed it, and now it works.





From tclug at jfoo.org  Tue Feb 17 22:00:16 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:00:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple
	network	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <499B87D0.1010407@jfoo.org>

Venkat Chandra wrote:
> auto eth0
> iface eth0 inet static
>         address 10.19.175.242
>         gateway 10.19.175.241
> 
> auto eth1
> iface eth1 inet static
>         address 192.168.164.2
 > ...
> The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509 
> switch.

This is bizarre. Why are both cables going to the same switch?
Can you get another switch and create two "proper" sub-nets, one
for the 10.x segment and one for the 192.x segment? Then make sure
routing on the host is set up properly so that replies get routed
to the right interface?

> I can run tcpdump on the 
> interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the 
> interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply. 

An explicit dump would be interesting, and in particular to see if an
ICMP request comes in the 192 interface and the reply goes out the 10.x
interface.

I'm not an expert, but what you are doing here seems prone to problems
at best, and flat out wrong at worst.

j


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Feb 17 22:23:13 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:23:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <499B87D0.1010407@jfoo.org>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<499B87D0.1010407@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0902172023l67f3b6c5p89eab14e92384af4@mail.gmail.com>

Just to note it is very common to have multiple interfaces going to the same
switch especially when talking about an enterprise class one like the 6509.
I would suspect that the would connect to separate VLANs although it can
work fine on the same VLAN but that's generally bad practice.  There are
also of course teaming configurations where you have multiple interfaces
connecting to the same swtich for throughput or redundancy but thats not
what we are discussing here.

--j

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 10:00 PM, John Gateley <tclug at jfoo.org> wrote:

> Venkat Chandra wrote:
> > auto eth0
> > iface eth0 inet static
> >         address 10.19.175.242
> >         gateway 10.19.175.241
> >
> > auto eth1
> > iface eth1 inet static
> >         address 192.168.164.2
>  > ...
> > The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
> > switch.
>
> This is bizarre. Why are both cables going to the same switch?
> Can you get another switch and create two "proper" sub-nets, one
> for the 10.x segment and one for the 192.x segment? Then make sure
> routing on the host is set up properly so that replies get routed
> to the right interface?
>
> > I can run tcpdump on the
> > interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
> > interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.
>
> An explicit dump would be interesting, and in particular to see if an
> ICMP request comes in the 192 interface and the reply goes out the 10.x
> interface.
>
> I'm not an expert, but what you are doing here seems prone to problems
> at best, and flat out wrong at worst.
>
> j
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at jfoo.org  Tue Feb 17 22:29:51 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:29:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
 interfaces
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0902172023l67f3b6c5p89eab14e92384af4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>	
	<499B87D0.1010407@jfoo.org>
	<38aa5b6a0902172023l67f3b6c5p89eab14e92384af4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <499B8EBF.1030908@jfoo.org>

J Cruit wrote:
> Just to note it is very common to have multiple interfaces going to the 
> same switch especially when talking about an enterprise class one like 
> the 6509. 

This is outside my experience, I've worked with smaller company
networks.

But even so, wouldn't you need routing on the various machines to be
set up correctly? And would the network be "logically" partitioned
into subnets like I suggested? (one for the 10.x and one for the 192.x)

j


From vc.lists at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 10:50:59 2009
From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:50:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1efb4e050902180850v1ce3edf1ldd649574b9cd5872@mail.gmail.com>

The IP trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface is 10.19.176.22.
I removed the iptables package for good measure after I noticed this
problem. No luck.

I just tried a live Ubuntu 7.10 off of a USB drive and the routing works
just fine. At this point, I am fairly certain this is a bug in Ubuntu 8.10
(and also 8.04 LTS). It would be great to have a workaround. Any suggestions
are appreciated.

Thanks,
Venkat.

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:42 PM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:

> What is the IP of the system trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface?
> It sounds like the system may not have a route back to the client.  With the
> default route pointing to the 10.19.175.241 address anything not in a local
> subnet will get routed out that interface.
>
> I've never seen Ubuntu behave differently than Fedora when it comes to
> routing, not sure what else could be going on there if there are no
> firewalls involved.
>
> --j
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> One of the applications that I am working with requires a fairly
>> unorthodox network configuration. This machine is running Ubuntu 8.10 with
>> all the latest patches. This has multiple wired network interfaces.
>> The /etc/network/interfaces file is as under:
>>
>> auto lo
>> iface lo inet loopback
>>
>> auto eth0
>> iface eth0 inet static
>>         address 10.19.175.242
>>         netmask 255.255.255.240
>>         network 10.19.175.240
>>         broadcast 10.19.175.255
>>         gateway 10.19.175.241
>>         dns-nameservers 10.19.173.245
>>
>> auto eth1
>> iface eth1 inet static
>>         address 192.168.164.2
>>         netmask 255.255.252.0
>>
>> The output of netstat -nr is as under:
>>
>> Kernel IP routing table
>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt
>> Iface
>> 10.19.175.240   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.240 U         0 0          0
>> eth0
>> 192.168.164.0   0.0.0.0         255.255.252.0   U         0 0          0
>> eth1
>> 169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U         0 0          0
>> eth1
>> 0.0.0.0         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0
>> eth0
>>
>>
>> The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
>> switch. Another machine of interest is also connected to this switch. Pings
>> from this other machine to the 192.168.164.2 interface are not returned.
>>
>> If I were to do:
>>
>> $ sudo route delete default device eth0
>> $ sudo route add default gw 192.168.164.1 device eth1
>>
>> then the other machine is able to ping 192.168.164.2. Of course I lose the
>> ability to reach the 10.19.175.242 interface.
>>
>>
>> I tried the Fedora 10 Live distribution on the same machine. I used the
>> NetworkManager applet to first configure eth0, checked the connectivity to
>> that interface before configuring the eth1 interface. I lost connectivity to
>> the eth0 interface at this point. I then did the following:
>>
>> # route delete default device eth1
>> # route add default gw 10.19.175.241 device eth0
>>
>> and the routing table:
>>
>> [root at localhost ~]# route
>> Kernel IP routing table
>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
>> Iface
>> 10.19.175.240   *               255.255.255.240 U     1      0        0
>> eth0
>> 192.168.164.0   *               255.255.252.0   U     1      0        0
>> eth1
>> default         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0
>> eth0
>>
>> And I was able to reach both the eth0 and eth1 interfaces at this point
>> from appropriate machines on the network.
>>
>> I tried using a bootable USB Live Ubuntu 8.10, and I repeated the exact
>> steps I had performed with the F10 and I was only able to reach one of the
>> interfaces and not both at the same time. I can run tcpdump on the
>> interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
>> interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.
>>
>> Any idea why Ubuntu would behave differently? I'd appreciate any
>> suggestions on what I could try so that both interfaces are reachable
>> simultaneously.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Venkat.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
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From vc.lists at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 10:59:58 2009
From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:59:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <499B87D0.1010407@jfoo.org>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<499B87D0.1010407@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <1efb4e050902180859g7906f8dbl738648f592f93fd0@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> An explicit dump would be interesting, and in particular to see if an
> ICMP request comes in the 192 interface and the reply goes out the 10.x
> interface.
>

John -

We have had this exact setup on multiple 6509s (16 to be exact) and it has
been working just fine. All the machines in these cases have been running
Solaris on SPARC hardware. And as I indicated, I tried Fedora 10 off of a
USB and it works too.

And Ubuntu 7.10 works too. I am attaching tcpdump collected on eth0 and eth1
interfaces since you wanted to see ICMP requests coming in one interface and
ICMP replies going out the other collected on 7.10.

- Venkat
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16:23:30.020693 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 772, length 64
16:23:31.020474 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 773, length 64
16:23:32.020261 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 774, length 64
16:23:33.020117 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 775, length 64
16:23:34.019982 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 776, length 64
16:23:35.019702 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 777, length 64
16:23:36.019535 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 778, length 64
16:23:37.019274 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 779, length 64
16:23:38.019712 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 780, length 64
16:23:39.019852 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 781, length 64
16:23:40.019672 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 782, length 64
16:23:41.019648 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 783, length 64
16:23:42.019296 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 784, length 64
16:23:43.019124 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 785, length 64
16:23:44.018967 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 786, length 64
16:23:45.018819 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 787, length 64
16:23:46.018952 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 788, length 64
16:23:47.018287 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 789, length 64
16:23:48.018074 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 790, length 64
16:23:49.018390 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 791, length 64
16:23:50.018038 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 792, length 64
16:23:51.018556 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 793, length 64
16:23:52.018396 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 794, length 64
16:23:53.018267 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 795, length 64
16:23:54.018023 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 796, length 64
16:23:55.017711 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 797, length 64
16:23:56.017614 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 798, length 64
16:23:57.017400 IP 10.19.176.22 ? ubuntu.local: ICMP echo request, id 32110, seq 799, length 64

From j at packetgod.com  Wed Feb 18 11:39:27 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:39:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050902180850v1ce3edf1ldd649574b9cd5872@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902180850v1ce3edf1ldd649574b9cd5872@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0902180939q10532f91x4e9960b7352b922f@mail.gmail.com>

Again not exactly certain why it would work on the live versus the installed
but it could be that the system doesn't have IP forwarding turned on as it
sounds like this is trying to route through the system.  So your host that
is trying to reach the system would not be in the routing table of the host
so it will be sent to the default gateway no matter what interface it comes
in on, you said it could talk to the 10.19.174.242 address which would point
to the fact that the router can route to from the 10.19.174.242 to the
10.19.176.22.

So perhaps the issue is that Ubuntu does not want to return a ping received
on one interface out another interface.  It would receive the ping on the
192.168.164.2 interface but its only route back would be out its
10.19.174.242 interface.  The other issue could be if there are any
firewalls around and this would cause an asynchronous routing issue which
would break any state tables, also depending on the routes on the 6509 could
also be an issue but if the routes are all there it shouldn't matter
although if there is anything fancy going on like route-maps that could
cause issues.

So not sure if the bug is Ubuntu or not but I'm not sure what the standard
behaviour is and if it is different from the live version versus installed.

Try just adding in a route just to the 10.19.176.22 pointing to the
192.168.164.1 than try pinging it.  If it works, try pinging the
10.19.176.242 and chances are it wont work because you will have the same
problem only in reverse.  Or maybe it will all magically work and you can
just add that route to your startup configuration.

 --j

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> The IP trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface is 10.19.176.22.
> I removed the iptables package for good measure after I noticed this
> problem. No luck.
>
> I just tried a live Ubuntu 7.10 off of a USB drive and the routing works
> just fine. At this point, I am fairly certain this is a bug in Ubuntu 8.10
> (and also 8.04 LTS). It would be great to have a workaround. Any suggestions
> are appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Venkat.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:42 PM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>
>> What is the IP of the system trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface?
>> It sounds like the system may not have a route back to the client.  With the
>> default route pointing to the 10.19.175.241 address anything not in a local
>> subnet will get routed out that interface.
>>
>> I've never seen Ubuntu behave differently than Fedora when it comes to
>> routing, not sure what else could be going on there if there are no
>> firewalls involved.
>>
>> --j
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> One of the applications that I am working with requires a fairly
>>> unorthodox network configuration. This machine is running Ubuntu 8.10 with
>>> all the latest patches. This has multiple wired network interfaces.
>>> The /etc/network/interfaces file is as under:
>>>
>>> auto lo
>>> iface lo inet loopback
>>>
>>> auto eth0
>>> iface eth0 inet static
>>>         address 10.19.175.242
>>>         netmask 255.255.255.240
>>>         network 10.19.175.240
>>>         broadcast 10.19.175.255
>>>         gateway 10.19.175.241
>>>         dns-nameservers 10.19.173.245
>>>
>>> auto eth1
>>> iface eth1 inet static
>>>         address 192.168.164.2
>>>         netmask 255.255.252.0
>>>
>>> The output of netstat -nr is as under:
>>>
>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt
>>> Iface
>>> 10.19.175.240   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.240 U         0 0          0
>>> eth0
>>> 192.168.164.0   0.0.0.0         255.255.252.0   U         0 0          0
>>> eth1
>>> 169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U         0 0          0
>>> eth1
>>> 0.0.0.0         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0
>>> eth0
>>>
>>>
>>> The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
>>> switch. Another machine of interest is also connected to this switch. Pings
>>> from this other machine to the 192.168.164.2 interface are not returned.
>>>
>>> If I were to do:
>>>
>>> $ sudo route delete default device eth0
>>> $ sudo route add default gw 192.168.164.1 device eth1
>>>
>>> then the other machine is able to ping 192.168.164.2. Of course I lose
>>> the ability to reach the 10.19.175.242 interface.
>>>
>>>
>>> I tried the Fedora 10 Live distribution on the same machine. I used the
>>> NetworkManager applet to first configure eth0, checked the connectivity to
>>> that interface before configuring the eth1 interface. I lost connectivity to
>>> the eth0 interface at this point. I then did the following:
>>>
>>> # route delete default device eth1
>>> # route add default gw 10.19.175.241 device eth0
>>>
>>> and the routing table:
>>>
>>> [root at localhost ~]# route
>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
>>> Iface
>>> 10.19.175.240   *               255.255.255.240 U     1      0        0
>>> eth0
>>> 192.168.164.0   *               255.255.252.0   U     1      0        0
>>> eth1
>>> default         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0
>>> eth0
>>>
>>> And I was able to reach both the eth0 and eth1 interfaces at this point
>>> from appropriate machines on the network.
>>>
>>> I tried using a bootable USB Live Ubuntu 8.10, and I repeated the exact
>>> steps I had performed with the F10 and I was only able to reach one of the
>>> interfaces and not both at the same time. I can run tcpdump on the
>>> interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
>>> interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.
>>>
>>> Any idea why Ubuntu would behave differently? I'd appreciate any
>>> suggestions on what I could try so that both interfaces are reachable
>>> simultaneously.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Venkat.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From vc.lists at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 13:37:37 2009
From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:37:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0902180939q10532f91x4e9960b7352b922f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902180850v1ce3edf1ldd649574b9cd5872@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902180939q10532f91x4e9960b7352b922f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1efb4e050902181137h1d563229sd4c6b96e118cfaa9@mail.gmail.com>

I believe the expected behavior is for the 192.168.164.2 interface to route
packets out the 10.19.174.242 interface if it is not intended for the
192.168.164.0 network. And in fact that is the behavior exhibited by F10 and
Solaris 8 & 9.

So not sure if the bug is Ubuntu or not but I'm not sure what the standard
> behaviour is and if it is different from the live version versus installed.
>

It is not as much as the difference in behavior between live and installed
versions as it is the difference in behavior between the newer Ubuntu
versions and older Ubuntu versions as well as other Unix-y boxes. Here's a
summary of what I've tried and observed:

Ubuntu 7.10 (Live) ---- Works as expected (as per my
understanding/observation stated above).
Ubuntu 8.04 (Live) ---- Does not work as expected.
Ubuntu 8.10 (Live) ---- Does not work as expected.
Ubuntu 8.10 (Inst) ---- Does not work as expected.
Fedora 9 (Inst)      ---- Works as expected.
Fedora 10 (Live)    ---- Works as expected.
Solaris 9 & 10 (Inst) ---- Works as expected.

Try just adding in a route just to the 10.19.176.22 pointing to the
> 192.168.164.1 than try pinging it.  If it works, try pinging the
> 10.19.176.242 and chances are it wont work because you will have the same
> problem only in reverse.  Or maybe it will all magically work and you can
> just add that route to your startup configuration.
>

Yep - I tried this and you guessed correctly - I had the problem, only in
reverse.

Thanks,
Venkat.


>  --j
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> The IP trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface is 10.19.176.22.
>> I removed the iptables package for good measure after I noticed this
>> problem. No luck.
>>
>> I just tried a live Ubuntu 7.10 off of a USB drive and the routing works
>> just fine. At this point, I am fairly certain this is a bug in Ubuntu 8.10
>> (and also 8.04 LTS). It would be great to have a workaround. Any suggestions
>> are appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Venkat.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:42 PM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What is the IP of the system trying to reach the 192.168.164.2
>>> interface?  It sounds like the system may not have a route back to the
>>> client.  With the default route pointing to the 10.19.175.241 address
>>> anything not in a local subnet will get routed out that interface.
>>>
>>> I've never seen Ubuntu behave differently than Fedora when it comes to
>>> routing, not sure what else could be going on there if there are no
>>> firewalls involved.
>>>
>>> --j
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> One of the applications that I am working with requires a fairly
>>>> unorthodox network configuration. This machine is running Ubuntu 8.10 with
>>>> all the latest patches. This has multiple wired network interfaces.
>>>> The /etc/network/interfaces file is as under:
>>>>
>>>> auto lo
>>>> iface lo inet loopback
>>>>
>>>> auto eth0
>>>> iface eth0 inet static
>>>>         address 10.19.175.242
>>>>         netmask 255.255.255.240
>>>>         network 10.19.175.240
>>>>         broadcast 10.19.175.255
>>>>         gateway 10.19.175.241
>>>>         dns-nameservers 10.19.173.245
>>>>
>>>> auto eth1
>>>> iface eth1 inet static
>>>>         address 192.168.164.2
>>>>         netmask 255.255.252.0
>>>>
>>>> The output of netstat -nr is as under:
>>>>
>>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt
>>>> Iface
>>>> 10.19.175.240   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.240 U         0 0          0
>>>> eth0
>>>> 192.168.164.0   0.0.0.0         255.255.252.0   U         0 0          0
>>>> eth1
>>>> 169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U         0 0          0
>>>> eth1
>>>> 0.0.0.0         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0
>>>> eth0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
>>>> switch. Another machine of interest is also connected to this switch. Pings
>>>> from this other machine to the 192.168.164.2 interface are not returned.
>>>>
>>>> If I were to do:
>>>>
>>>> $ sudo route delete default device eth0
>>>> $ sudo route add default gw 192.168.164.1 device eth1
>>>>
>>>> then the other machine is able to ping 192.168.164.2. Of course I lose
>>>> the ability to reach the 10.19.175.242 interface.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I tried the Fedora 10 Live distribution on the same machine. I used the
>>>> NetworkManager applet to first configure eth0, checked the connectivity to
>>>> that interface before configuring the eth1 interface. I lost connectivity to
>>>> the eth0 interface at this point. I then did the following:
>>>>
>>>> # route delete default device eth1
>>>> # route add default gw 10.19.175.241 device eth0
>>>>
>>>> and the routing table:
>>>>
>>>> [root at localhost ~]# route
>>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
>>>> Iface
>>>> 10.19.175.240   *               255.255.255.240 U     1      0        0
>>>> eth0
>>>> 192.168.164.0   *               255.255.252.0   U     1      0        0
>>>> eth1
>>>> default         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0
>>>> eth0
>>>>
>>>> And I was able to reach both the eth0 and eth1 interfaces at this point
>>>> from appropriate machines on the network.
>>>>
>>>> I tried using a bootable USB Live Ubuntu 8.10, and I repeated the exact
>>>> steps I had performed with the F10 and I was only able to reach one of the
>>>> interfaces and not both at the same time. I can run tcpdump on the
>>>> interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
>>>> interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.
>>>>
>>>> Any idea why Ubuntu would behave differently? I'd appreciate any
>>>> suggestions on what I could try so that both interfaces are reachable
>>>> simultaneously.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Venkat.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From vc.lists at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 16:09:09 2009
From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:09:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050902181137h1d563229sd4c6b96e118cfaa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902180850v1ce3edf1ldd649574b9cd5872@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902180939q10532f91x4e9960b7352b922f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902181137h1d563229sd4c6b96e118cfaa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1efb4e050902181409n283a0974la18abb6f30922917@mail.gmail.com>

Whew! I have it working as required now. There's a kernel tunable parameter
net.ipv4.conf.all.rp_filter which by default on Ubuntu 8.10 is set to 1.
This is so as to "drop a packet if the source and destination IP addresses
in the IP header do not make sense when considered in light of the physical
interface on which it arrived". I changed it in the sysctl.conf file to 0
and all is good now.
Thanks "j" and John for helping me with this!

- Venkat.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe the expected behavior is for the 192.168.164.2 interface to route
> packets out the 10.19.174.242 interface if it is not intended for the
> 192.168.164.0 network. And in fact that is the behavior exhibited by F10 and
> Solaris 8 & 9.
>
> So not sure if the bug is Ubuntu or not but I'm not sure what the standard
>> behaviour is and if it is different from the live version versus installed.
>>
>
> It is not as much as the difference in behavior between live and installed
> versions as it is the difference in behavior between the newer Ubuntu
> versions and older Ubuntu versions as well as other Unix-y boxes. Here's a
> summary of what I've tried and observed:
>
> Ubuntu 7.10 (Live) ---- Works as expected (as per my
> understanding/observation stated above).
> Ubuntu 8.04 (Live) ---- Does not work as expected.
> Ubuntu 8.10 (Live) ---- Does not work as expected.
> Ubuntu 8.10 (Inst) ---- Does not work as expected.
> Fedora 9 (Inst)      ---- Works as expected.
> Fedora 10 (Live)    ---- Works as expected.
> Solaris 9 & 10 (Inst) ---- Works as expected.
>
> Try just adding in a route just to the 10.19.176.22 pointing to the
>> 192.168.164.1 than try pinging it.  If it works, try pinging the
>> 10.19.176.242 and chances are it wont work because you will have the same
>> problem only in reverse.  Or maybe it will all magically work and you can
>> just add that route to your startup configuration.
>>
>
> Yep - I tried this and you guessed correctly - I had the problem, only in
> reverse.
>
> Thanks,
> Venkat.
>
>
>>  --j
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> The IP trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface is 10.19.176.22.
>>> I removed the iptables package for good measure after I noticed this
>>> problem. No luck.
>>>
>>> I just tried a live Ubuntu 7.10 off of a USB drive and the routing works
>>> just fine. At this point, I am fairly certain this is a bug in Ubuntu 8.10
>>> (and also 8.04 LTS). It would be great to have a workaround. Any suggestions
>>> are appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Venkat.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:42 PM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the IP of the system trying to reach the 192.168.164.2
>>>> interface?  It sounds like the system may not have a route back to the
>>>> client.  With the default route pointing to the 10.19.175.241 address
>>>> anything not in a local subnet will get routed out that interface.
>>>>
>>>> I've never seen Ubuntu behave differently than Fedora when it comes to
>>>> routing, not sure what else could be going on there if there are no
>>>> firewalls involved.
>>>>
>>>> --j
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One of the applications that I am working with requires a fairly
>>>>> unorthodox network configuration. This machine is running Ubuntu 8.10 with
>>>>> all the latest patches. This has multiple wired network interfaces.
>>>>> The /etc/network/interfaces file is as under:
>>>>>
>>>>> auto lo
>>>>> iface lo inet loopback
>>>>>
>>>>> auto eth0
>>>>> iface eth0 inet static
>>>>>         address 10.19.175.242
>>>>>         netmask 255.255.255.240
>>>>>         network 10.19.175.240
>>>>>         broadcast 10.19.175.255
>>>>>         gateway 10.19.175.241
>>>>>         dns-nameservers 10.19.173.245
>>>>>
>>>>> auto eth1
>>>>> iface eth1 inet static
>>>>>         address 192.168.164.2
>>>>>         netmask 255.255.252.0
>>>>>
>>>>> The output of netstat -nr is as under:
>>>>>
>>>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window
>>>>>  irtt Iface
>>>>> 10.19.175.240   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.240 U         0 0
>>>>>  0 eth0
>>>>> 192.168.164.0   0.0.0.0         255.255.252.0   U         0 0
>>>>>  0 eth1
>>>>> 169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U         0 0
>>>>>  0 eth1
>>>>> 0.0.0.0         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG        0 0
>>>>>  0 eth0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
>>>>> switch. Another machine of interest is also connected to this switch. Pings
>>>>> from this other machine to the 192.168.164.2 interface are not returned.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I were to do:
>>>>>
>>>>> $ sudo route delete default device eth0
>>>>> $ sudo route add default gw 192.168.164.1 device eth1
>>>>>
>>>>> then the other machine is able to ping 192.168.164.2. Of course I lose
>>>>> the ability to reach the 10.19.175.242 interface.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried the Fedora 10 Live distribution on the same machine. I used the
>>>>> NetworkManager applet to first configure eth0, checked the connectivity to
>>>>> that interface before configuring the eth1 interface. I lost connectivity to
>>>>> the eth0 interface at this point. I then did the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> # route delete default device eth1
>>>>> # route add default gw 10.19.175.241 device eth0
>>>>>
>>>>> and the routing table:
>>>>>
>>>>> [root at localhost ~]# route
>>>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use
>>>>> Iface
>>>>> 10.19.175.240   *               255.255.255.240 U     1      0        0
>>>>> eth0
>>>>> 192.168.164.0   *               255.255.252.0   U     1      0        0
>>>>> eth1
>>>>> default         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0
>>>>> eth0
>>>>>
>>>>> And I was able to reach both the eth0 and eth1 interfaces at this point
>>>>> from appropriate machines on the network.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried using a bootable USB Live Ubuntu 8.10, and I repeated the exact
>>>>> steps I had performed with the F10 and I was only able to reach one of the
>>>>> interfaces and not both at the same time. I can run tcpdump on the
>>>>> interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
>>>>> interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea why Ubuntu would behave differently? I'd appreciate any
>>>>> suggestions on what I could try so that both interfaces are reachable
>>>>> simultaneously.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Venkat.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From tclug at jfoo.org  Wed Feb 18 16:23:12 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:23:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
 interfaces
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050902181409n283a0974la18abb6f30922917@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902180850v1ce3edf1ldd649574b9cd5872@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902180939q10532f91x4e9960b7352b922f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902181137h1d563229sd4c6b96e118cfaa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902181409n283a0974la18abb6f30922917@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090218162312.68b1ec7a.tclug@jfoo.org>

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:09:09 -0600
Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks "j" and John for helping me with this!

Your welcome, and it makes sense, but I wasn't
any help, it was the other John...

j

-- 
John Gateley <tclug at jfoo.org>


From vc.lists at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 18:39:10 2009
From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:39:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing issue with Ubuntu and multiple network
	interfaces
In-Reply-To: <1efb4e050902181409n283a0974la18abb6f30922917@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1efb4e050902171504m1570f4e5i4ab8b240898854e@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902171742o49b1d24bo6feaa472ba80d467@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902180850v1ce3edf1ldd649574b9cd5872@mail.gmail.com>
	<38aa5b6a0902180939q10532f91x4e9960b7352b922f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902181137h1d563229sd4c6b96e118cfaa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<1efb4e050902181409n283a0974la18abb6f30922917@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1efb4e050902181639o78dad5bcif840fb0454fef89e@mail.gmail.com>

I guess I should also mention that my earlier assertion that this could be a
bug in Ubuntu 8.10 is incorrect.
- Venkat.

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> Whew! I have it working as required now. There's a kernel tunable parameter
> net.ipv4.conf.all.rp_filter which by default on Ubuntu 8.10 is set to 1.
> This is so as to "drop a packet if the source and destination IP addresses
> in the IP header do not make sense when considered in light of the physical
> interface on which it arrived". I changed it in the sysctl.conf file to 0
> and all is good now.
> Thanks "j" and John for helping me with this!
>
> - Venkat.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I believe the expected behavior is for the 192.168.164.2 interface to
>> route packets out the 10.19.174.242 interface if it is not intended for the
>> 192.168.164.0 network. And in fact that is the behavior exhibited by F10 and
>> Solaris 8 & 9.
>>
>> So not sure if the bug is Ubuntu or not but I'm not sure what the standard
>>> behaviour is and if it is different from the live version versus installed.
>>>
>>
>> It is not as much as the difference in behavior between live and installed
>> versions as it is the difference in behavior between the newer Ubuntu
>> versions and older Ubuntu versions as well as other Unix-y boxes. Here's a
>> summary of what I've tried and observed:
>>
>> Ubuntu 7.10 (Live) ---- Works as expected (as per my
>> understanding/observation stated above).
>> Ubuntu 8.04 (Live) ---- Does not work as expected.
>> Ubuntu 8.10 (Live) ---- Does not work as expected.
>> Ubuntu 8.10 (Inst) ---- Does not work as expected.
>> Fedora 9 (Inst)      ---- Works as expected.
>> Fedora 10 (Live)    ---- Works as expected.
>> Solaris 9 & 10 (Inst) ---- Works as expected.
>>
>> Try just adding in a route just to the 10.19.176.22 pointing to the
>>> 192.168.164.1 than try pinging it.  If it works, try pinging the
>>> 10.19.176.242 and chances are it wont work because you will have the same
>>> problem only in reverse.  Or maybe it will all magically work and you can
>>> just add that route to your startup configuration.
>>>
>>
>> Yep - I tried this and you guessed correctly - I had the problem, only in
>> reverse.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Venkat.
>>
>>
>>>  --j
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> The IP trying to reach the 192.168.164.2 interface is 10.19.176.22.
>>>> I removed the iptables package for good measure after I noticed this
>>>> problem. No luck.
>>>>
>>>> I just tried a live Ubuntu 7.10 off of a USB drive and the routing works
>>>> just fine. At this point, I am fairly certain this is a bug in Ubuntu 8.10
>>>> (and also 8.04 LTS). It would be great to have a workaround. Any suggestions
>>>> are appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Venkat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:42 PM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What is the IP of the system trying to reach the 192.168.164.2
>>>>> interface?  It sounds like the system may not have a route back to the
>>>>> client.  With the default route pointing to the 10.19.175.241 address
>>>>> anything not in a local subnet will get routed out that interface.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never seen Ubuntu behave differently than Fedora when it comes to
>>>>> routing, not sure what else could be going on there if there are no
>>>>> firewalls involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> --j
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Venkat Chandra <vc.lists at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the applications that I am working with requires a fairly
>>>>>> unorthodox network configuration. This machine is running Ubuntu 8.10 with
>>>>>> all the latest patches. This has multiple wired network interfaces.
>>>>>> The /etc/network/interfaces file is as under:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> auto lo
>>>>>> iface lo inet loopback
>>>>>>
>>>>>> auto eth0
>>>>>> iface eth0 inet static
>>>>>>         address 10.19.175.242
>>>>>>         netmask 255.255.255.240
>>>>>>         network 10.19.175.240
>>>>>>         broadcast 10.19.175.255
>>>>>>         gateway 10.19.175.241
>>>>>>         dns-nameservers 10.19.173.245
>>>>>>
>>>>>> auto eth1
>>>>>> iface eth1 inet static
>>>>>>         address 192.168.164.2
>>>>>>         netmask 255.255.252.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The output of netstat -nr is as under:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>>>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window
>>>>>>  irtt Iface
>>>>>> 10.19.175.240   0.0.0.0         255.255.255.240 U         0 0
>>>>>>  0 eth0
>>>>>> 192.168.164.0   0.0.0.0         255.255.252.0   U         0 0
>>>>>>  0 eth1
>>>>>> 169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U         0 0
>>>>>>  0 eth1
>>>>>> 0.0.0.0         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG        0 0
>>>>>>  0 eth0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The network cables from these two interfaces terminate on a Cisco 6509
>>>>>> switch. Another machine of interest is also connected to this switch. Pings
>>>>>> from this other machine to the 192.168.164.2 interface are not returned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I were to do:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $ sudo route delete default device eth0
>>>>>> $ sudo route add default gw 192.168.164.1 device eth1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> then the other machine is able to ping 192.168.164.2. Of course I lose
>>>>>> the ability to reach the 10.19.175.242 interface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried the Fedora 10 Live distribution on the same machine. I used
>>>>>> the NetworkManager applet to first configure eth0, checked the connectivity
>>>>>> to that interface before configuring the eth1 interface. I lost connectivity
>>>>>> to the eth0 interface at this point. I then did the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> # route delete default device eth1
>>>>>> # route add default gw 10.19.175.241 device eth0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the routing table:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [root at localhost ~]# route
>>>>>> Kernel IP routing table
>>>>>> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref
>>>>>>  Use Iface
>>>>>> 10.19.175.240   *               255.255.255.240 U     1      0
>>>>>>  0 eth0
>>>>>> 192.168.164.0   *               255.255.252.0   U     1      0
>>>>>>  0 eth1
>>>>>> default         10.19.175.241   0.0.0.0         UG    0      0
>>>>>>  0 eth0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I was able to reach both the eth0 and eth1 interfaces at this
>>>>>> point from appropriate machines on the network.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried using a bootable USB Live Ubuntu 8.10, and I repeated the
>>>>>> exact steps I had performed with the F10 and I was only able to reach one of
>>>>>> the interfaces and not both at the same time. I can run tcpdump on the
>>>>>> interfaces separately and I can see ICMP Requests coming in on both the
>>>>>> interfaces but only one of the interfaces responds with an ICMP Reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea why Ubuntu would behave differently? I'd appreciate any
>>>>>> suggestions on what I could try so that both interfaces are reachable
>>>>>> simultaneously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Venkat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 20 07:53:13 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 07:53:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Need help with folder permissions
Message-ID: <499EB5C9.9030008@lctn.org>

What is the proper way to set up permissions, so apache can read all 
directories and files in the root of the web server that are created by 
a standard user via ftp, or ssh?



From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 20 11:00:54 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:00:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Need help with folder permissions
In-Reply-To: <499ECCE2.6070208@e-skinner.net>
References: <499EB5C9.9030008@lctn.org> <499EC4A8.3040900@e-skinner.net>
	<499EC5EA.5030507@lctn.org> <499ECCE2.6070208@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <499EE1C6.9020400@lctn.org>

This seems to work:


sudo gpasswd -a <user> www-data
chmod -R g+wxs /var/www


From marc at e-skinner.net  Fri Feb 20 11:09:26 2009
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:09:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Need help with folder permissions
In-Reply-To: <499EE1C6.9020400@lctn.org>
References: <499EB5C9.9030008@lctn.org>
	<499EC4A8.3040900@e-skinner.net>	<499EC5EA.5030507@lctn.org>
	<499ECCE2.6070208@e-skinner.net> <499EE1C6.9020400@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <499EE3C6.3050203@e-skinner.net>

cool, glad i could help.

Raymond Norton wrote:
> This seems to work:
>
>
> sudo gpasswd -a <user> www-data
> chmod -R g+wxs /var/www
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Mon Feb 23 16:57:32 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:57:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Python Programming @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Feb
	28tbh, 2009
Message-ID: <49A329DC.5090405@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday February 28th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 to 12:00.

(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Jack Ungerleider was kind enough to come and talk about Python 
Programming.  Give us a quick intro.

*** We will be meeting in the Larpenteur Room, which is on the second 
floor in the front above the parking garage. ***

*** If you go in the west door (the ones marked on the map), and take 
the stairs or elevator to the second floor then take the walk way over 
to the parking garage the second door on your right will be the main 
entrance for the Larpenteur Room ***


Hope you will be able to make it.

==>brian.


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 25 10:24:19 2009
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:24:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Installing Solaris 10 with a LVM
Message-ID: <357297.73736.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'm trying to talk our Admins into installing Solaris 10 on one of our systems using LVM.  This will be a new install since they wiped the system trying to install Solaris 8, then found they couldn't get patches.  

The system only has 2 x 36Gb drives and that means that disk space will be tight.  The Admins are concerned that installing LVM will be a very time consuming job, requiring you to set up a JumpStart server, etc.  And besides, they have never done it before.

Anyone have any suggested reading (i.e. web sites) that might make this a bit easier for them?  FAQs, HowTos, etc.

Thanks.

 --- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


      
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb 25 12:33:06 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:33:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Installing Solaris 10 with a LVM
In-Reply-To: <357297.73736.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <357297.73736.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902251224530.26372@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Wayne Johnson wrote:

> I'm trying to talk our Admins into installing Solaris 10 on one of our 
> systems using LVM.

Just curious:  Why do you want to use Solaris?  I'm just wondering because 
I just stopped using it after about 15 years and I'm thinking I'm better 
off now.  Everything around me was shifting toward GNU/Linux, so that's 
the direction I took.  Now I have some Linux distro on almost every 
computer I use (including supercomputers at the U), with Ubuntu on the 
desktop (and XP still in Virtual Box on Ubuntu).

Mike


From josh at tcbug.org  Wed Feb 25 16:49:44 2009
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:49:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Installing Solaris 10 with a LVM
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902251224530.26372@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <357297.73736.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0902251224530.26372@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <6C67519F-67FC-4F32-9E31-367A0D3D7A74@tcbug.org>


On Feb 25, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Wayne Johnson wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to talk our Admins into installing Solaris 10 on one of  
>> our
>> systems using LVM.
>
> Just curious:  Why do you want to use Solaris?  I'm just wondering  
> because
> I just stopped using it after about 15 years and I'm thinking I'm  
> better
> off now.  Everything around me was shifting toward GNU/Linux, so  
> that's
> the direction I took.  Now I have some Linux distro on almost every
> computer I use (including supercomputers at the U), with Ubuntu on the
> desktop (and XP still in Virtual Box on Ubuntu).
>
> Mike


I can think of all sorts of reasons for using Solaris, but I'm  
struggling to think of a benefit to installing Solaris on LVM,  
assuming it's even possible.   LVM is the Linux Volume Manager.   
Solaris isn't Linux.

You can use the Solaris Volume Manager ala http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4520/roadmap-10?a=view

ZFS and VxFS are popular filesystem choices as well.

Thanks,

Josh Paetzel






From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb 25 17:13:24 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:13:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Installing Solaris 10 with a LVM
In-Reply-To: <6C67519F-67FC-4F32-9E31-367A0D3D7A74@tcbug.org>
References: <357297.73736.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0902251224530.26372@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<6C67519F-67FC-4F32-9E31-367A0D3D7A74@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902251712410.26372@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Josh Paetzel wrote:

> On Feb 25, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Wayne Johnson wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm trying to talk our Admins into installing Solaris 10 on one of our
>>> systems using LVM.
>> 
>> Just curious:  Why do you want to use Solaris?  I'm just wondering because
>> I just stopped using it after about 15 years and I'm thinking I'm better
>> off now.  Everything around me was shifting toward GNU/Linux, so that's
>> the direction I took.  Now I have some Linux distro on almost every
>> computer I use (including supercomputers at the U), with Ubuntu on the
>> desktop (and XP still in Virtual Box on Ubuntu).
>
> I can think of all sorts of reasons for using Solaris


His reason is that he will use Solaris for software testing.

Mike


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 25 18:22:04 2009
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:22:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] [OT] Installing Solaris 10 with a LVM
References: <357297.73736.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0902251224530.26372@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<6C67519F-67FC-4F32-9E31-367A0D3D7A74@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <42317.46374.qm@web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I was thinking AIX, which uses LVM (Logical?Volume Manager).? Sun's version is SVM.
?--- 
Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis





________________________________
From: Josh Paetzel <josh at tcbug.org>
To: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
Cc: Twin Cities Linux Users Group <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:49:44 PM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] [OT] Installing Solaris 10 with a LVM


On Feb 25, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Wayne Johnson wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to talk our Admins into installing Solaris 10 on one of? 
>> our
>> systems using LVM.
>
> Just curious:? Why do you want to use Solaris?? I'm just wondering? 
> because
> I just stopped using it after about 15 years and I'm thinking I'm? 
> better
> off now.? Everything around me was shifting toward GNU/Linux, so? 
> that's
> the direction I took.? Now I have some Linux distro on almost every
> computer I use (including supercomputers at the U), with Ubuntu on the
> desktop (and XP still in Virtual Box on Ubuntu).
>
> Mike


I can think of all sorts of reasons for using Solaris, but I'm? 
struggling to think of a benefit to installing Solaris on LVM,? 
assuming it's even possible.? LVM is the Linux Volume Manager.? 
Solaris isn't Linux.

You can use the Solaris Volume Manager ala http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4520/roadmap-10?a=view

ZFS and VxFS are popular filesystem choices as well.

Thanks,

Josh Paetzel





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



      
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Feb 27 13:49:32 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:49:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ** Tomorrow ** Python Programming @PenguinsUnbound
 Linux Meeting Feb 28tbh, 2009
Message-ID: <49A843CC.7010006@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
** Tomorrow ** Saturday February 28th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 to 12:00.

(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Jack Ungerleider was kind enough to come and talk about Python 
Programming.  Give us a quick intro.

*** We will be meeting in the Larpenteur Room, which is on the second 
floor in the front above the parking garage. ***

*** If you go in the west door (the ones marked on the map), and take 
the stairs or elevator to the second floor then take the walk way over 
to the parking garage the second door on your right will be the main 
entrance for the Larpenteur Room ***


Hope you will be able to make it.

==>brian.


From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 15:09:59 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:09:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] DHCP problems?
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGEOFOBAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Having trouble lately with all my computers connecting to my WRT54G router.  Seems like it wasn't a problem until a week or two ago.
I did add a VoIP box between the cable modem and the router, but that is "on the other side" and doesn't seem to be involved in
basic IP assignment to the rest of my net.  Now, each box typically grabs onto an IP of 10. something and takes several ipconfig
release renews to get a correct 192. something.  I once saw an error message that said something like DHCP timeout.  Seems the same
in laptops and desktops, wired or wireless, and I don't see a router parameter that was recently changed or that would seem to
affect this (but I'm not an expert at all of these setting details).

Anybody got a suggestion or see something obvious?


Chuck



From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 16:07:25 2009
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:07:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] DHCP problems?
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGEOFOBAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGEOFOBAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e3a54b020902271407i537590a4l8378eff82b86feae@mail.gmail.com>

Take the VoIP device out of the loop and see if that corrects your problem.
If it does, you've found the source of your problem.

Your VoIP device should have it's WAN port connected to the cable/DSL modem,
and your WRT54G's WAN port should be connected to the VoIP device. If you've
connected the VoIP device to one of your WRT54G's LAN ports you've most
likely added a second DHCP server to your network, causing you issues.

Usually cable and DSL providers only give you a single public IP address, so
your VoIP woudl be configured by default to connect directly to the
cable/DSL modem and then act as a NAT router for the rest of your network.

Check the documentation for your VoIP device. You can reconfigure your
network a couple ways...

If the VoIP device is acting as a NAT router, you could put your WRT54G into
bridge mode so that it is just an Access Point. The VoIP device would be
doing all the NAT, DHCP, etc. for your network.

You could connect the WRT54G to your cable modem, and connect the VoIP
device to the WRT54G's LAN ports. Consult the documentation for the VoIP
device to determine what Quality of Service settings your VoIP service
requires, and consult the documenation for the WRT54G to learn how to
configure the WRT54G with those required QoS settings.

What I'd do is:
Connect the WAN port on the VoIP device to the cable modem. Configure the
VoIP device to give out DHCP addresses. Setup a DHCP reservation for the
WRT54G. If the VoIP device has a setting where you can specify a DMZ
destination, set your WRT54G as the DMZ. Any incoming traffic that the VoIP
device isn't going to deal with will now be forwared to your WRT54G.

Put the WRT54G in router (not bridge) mode as and use as normal. Because you
configured the VoIP device to forward all traffic to the WRT54G all port
forwarding can be done on the WRT54G.

Optional: Get another Wireless Router, connect it to the VoIP devices WAN
port. Configure this router to serve up guest access to visitors. This way
visitors can get access to the internet, but have no access to your own
network.

I've got an old Linksys router and two WRT54GL's running Tomato in this "Y"
configuration. The old Linksys router gets the public IP, and the WAN ports
of the WRT54GLs connect to the old Linksys router. I've limited the guest
network WRT54GL, turning off things like SMTP and giving the guest network
bandwidth limits, and even limiting what they can access via OpenDNS (
http://www.opendns.com/). Tomato has a neat feature where it will rewrite
all DNS packets so users on the guest network can't specify their own DNS
servers to get around the OpenDNS filters. It was a fun little project and
much apreciated by the parents of my wife's panio students.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 27 16:11:04 2009
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (robert)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:11:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] DHCP problems?
Message-ID: <1235772664.6363.15.camel@robert>

I'm more of a hardware guy, but I have something to try. It might sound
crazy, but when I have a problem with my intranet, I sometimes have to
shut EVERYTHING off. Starting at the cable, I restart each device, one
at a time. Making sure I give plenty of time between starting each
device. I watch for anything that seems unusual as I go. That usually
gets everything working again. 




From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 21:24:50 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:24:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] DHCP problems?
In-Reply-To: <e3a54b020902271407i537590a4l8378eff82b86feae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEFNCNAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Great suggestions!  I hadn't thought that the VoIP router's DHCP might compete with the one in the WRT54G, but that's a likely cause
of my loss in DHCP response time!  Glad you and Robert reminded me to do the simple fault isolation also.  I had not done that
either.  Hadn't really dawned on me that adding VoIP phone is about when the problems began, but now I realize it's the only change
in several years of flawless running.

Chuck
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Andrew S. Zbikowski
  Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 4:07 PM
  To: TCLUG-List
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] DHCP problems?


  Take the VoIP device out of the loop and see if that corrects your problem. If it does, you've found the source of your problem.

  Your VoIP device should have it's WAN port connected to the cable/DSL modem, and your WRT54G's WAN port should be connected to the
VoIP device. If you've connected the VoIP device to one of your WRT54G's LAN ports you've most likely added a second DHCP server to
your network, causing you issues.

  Usually cable and DSL providers only give you a single public IP address, so your VoIP woudl be configured by default to connect
directly to the cable/DSL modem and then act as a NAT router for the rest of your network.

  Check the documentation for your VoIP device. You can reconfigure your network a couple ways...

  If the VoIP device is acting as a NAT router, you could put your WRT54G into bridge mode so that it is just an Access Point. The
VoIP device would be doing all the NAT, DHCP, etc. for your network.

  You could connect the WRT54G to your cable modem, and connect the VoIP device to the WRT54G's LAN ports. Consult the documentation
for the VoIP device to determine what Quality of Service settings your VoIP service requires, and consult the documenation for the
WRT54G to learn how to configure the WRT54G with those required QoS settings.

  What I'd do is:
  Connect the WAN port on the VoIP device to the cable modem. Configure the VoIP device to give out DHCP addresses. Setup a DHCP
reservation for the WRT54G. If the VoIP device has a setting where you can specify a DMZ destination, set your WRT54G as the DMZ.
Any incoming traffic that the VoIP device isn't going to deal with will now be forwared to your WRT54G.

  Put the WRT54G in router (not bridge) mode as and use as normal. Because you configured the VoIP device to forward all traffic to
the WRT54G all port forwarding can be done on the WRT54G.

  Optional: Get another Wireless Router, connect it to the VoIP devices WAN port. Configure this router to serve up guest access to
visitors. This way visitors can get access to the internet, but have no access to your own network.

  I've got an old Linksys router and two WRT54GL's running Tomato in this "Y" configuration. The old Linksys router gets the public
IP, and the WAN ports of the WRT54GLs connect to the old Linksys router. I've limited the guest network WRT54GL, turning off things
like SMTP and giving the guest network bandwidth limits, and even limiting what they can access via OpenDNS
(http://www.opendns.com/). Tomato has a neat feature where it will rewrite all DNS packets so users on the guest network can't
specify their own DNS servers to get around the OpenDNS filters. It was a fun little project and much apreciated by the parents of
my wife's panio students.

  --
  Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
  IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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