From haircut at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 00:17:58 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 00:17:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Find all files not in ubuntu packages In-Reply-To: <495BCB8C.2080300@tcbug.org> References: <34de7f3d0812300546o28b9e263obeb11f256220da12@mail.gmail.com> <200812301113.35474.tclug@lizakowski.com> <1230749144.23115.8.camel@localhost> <495BCB8C.2080300@tcbug.org> Message-ID: <1230790678.832.459.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2008-12-31 at 13:44 -0600, Josh Paetzel wrote: > then echo $i >> /tmp/unknown.txt Yep! Thanks. > While this approach will probably work, it's bound to be fairly slow. Yep. I guess I was imagining it would be used for initial "discovery", ie: find paths to backup then hard-code what you find, but I guess it probably wouldn't be useful if you wanted discover non-packaged files during every backup. The initial "find" takes a while as well as the initial "dpkg --search". But after that, the package database maybe fits in kernel filesystem buffer(s)--there is a significant speedup for searches done after the first one. Florin's approach also sounds fine (let's call it the "reverse map") and might be faster. dpkg is slower than I anticipated. My approach should be conservative enough in that it will catch anything not directly represented in the package database. Excluding /var, /proc, /sys and such is a good idea. Let's try again. This version ignores everything except /etc on my Ubuntu 8.10 laptop... took about 10 minutes to run. Meh. -------------------------8<------------------------- #!/bin/sh # find_unpackaged.sh # # Find unpackaged (unknown to dpkg) files/directories. # # Discarding standard error isn't very elegant. # # (C)2008 Adam Monsen # License: GNU General Public License version 3 (or later) find / \ -path '/.*' -prune -o \ -path '/bin*' -prune -o \ -path '/boot*' -prune -o \ -path '/cdrom*' -prune -o \ -path '/dev*' -prune -o \ -path '/home*' -prune -o \ -path '/initrd*' -prune -o \ -path '/lib*' -prune -o \ -path '/lost+found*' -prune -o \ -path '/media*' -prune -o \ -path '/mnt*' -prune -o \ -path '/opt*' -prune -o \ -path '/proc*' -prune -o \ -path '/root*' -prune -o \ -path '/sbin*' -prune -o \ -path '/srv*' -prune -o \ -path '/sys*' -prune -o \ -path '/tmp*' -prune -o \ -path '/usr*' -prune -o \ -path '/var*' -prune -o \ -path '/vmlinuz*' -prune -o \ -print > /tmp/allpaths.txt \ 2>/dev/null for i in `cat /tmp/allpaths.txt` do # show progress with dots echo -n . if ! dpkg --search $i > /dev/null 2>&1 then echo $i >> /tmp/unknown.txt.TMP fi done # since packages have multiple files sort /tmp/unknown.txt.TMP | uniq > /tmp/unknown.txt ------------------------->8------------------------- To get any real performance we're probably going to need something more sophisticated than a shell script. But it looks like it did work... /tmp/unknown.txt contains over 1,000 lines, and has stuff like /etc/hosts, /etc/aliases, /etc/timezone, and other stuff that should probably be backed up. -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090101/ab06eaf5/attachment.pgp From kcbnac at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 14:34:16 2009 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:34:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> References: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> The Dell is likely to come with a 32-bit install (64-bit has been difficult at best for plugins etc) - but, it's in the price range you're looking at, and throws some weight behind the "customers want Linux" which is why I ordered the first one they put out last year. (I got the 1505N) - plus all the hardware just WORKS. If you're going to put Linux on there anyway, might as well have it come that way. Keith On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Troy wrote: > I'm not sure if a mini/netbook is an option, but the guys over at Linux > Action Show (about 34 minutes) claim the HP Mini works great with Ubuntu. > > Good Luck, > > Troy > > On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Mike Miller > wrote: >> >> It seems that there are many nice laptop computers in the below-$600 >> range. I would like to buy one, remove the ugly Vista (if necessary) and >> install Ubuntu. I expect that there will be some tricks to getting things >> to work under Ubuntu, but some laptops are probably better than others. >> >> So my question is this: Which new laptops are best for Ubuntu? Have any >> of you tried the Dell laptops with pre-installed Ubuntu? >> >> This machine looks nice... >> >> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0295188 >> >> ...but I don't see any info here... >> >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Gateway >> >> ...so I don't know it it will be tricky to install Ubuntu on it. >> >> Dell has Ubuntu 8.04 laptops, and after appropriate customizations, the >> price is pretty close to that of the Gateway above. Here's the Dell: >> >> >> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwpl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=segtopic~linux_3x >> >> Adding these options... >> >> Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) $50 >> (I think the T7250 has Intel's "Virtualization Technology" added -- is >> that worth $100?) >> 3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz $50 >> >> ...brings the price up to $639 (after $15 in "instant savings"), but I'm >> guessing I can add the 1 GB of RAM myself for less than $50 because >> Crucial seems to sell 2GB for $22: >> >> http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Inspiron%201525 >> >> The system appears to be 64-bit, so I am assuming they will install the >> 64-bit version of Ubuntu 8.04. >> >> So maybe Dell's Inspiron 1525N with preinstalled Ubuntu 8.04 is the way to >> go right now. Getting something that just works would be a huge pleasure. >> >> Mike >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From kcbnac at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 14:39:55 2009 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:39:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32fd45370901041239g746cb1f4nd59977ef2fe6a242@mail.gmail.com> I just use the one built into Rythmbox, since I let that manage all of my music. Ubuntu's got some pretty sane and effective defaults...I went with those in most cases for things, until it didn't work. (Why fix what ain't broke?) Keith On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 1:38 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > Now that I'm trying to do everything in Ubuntu, I'm wondering about CD > rippers/encoders. What have you found to be the best CD rippers/encoders > for GNU/Linux? Until now, I have been using WinXP with CDex for that > purpose and it has performed well. There seems to be a GNU/Linux clone of > CDex called LCDex: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/lcdex/ > > But it is listed as pre-alpha and inactive, so I doubt it is a good > choice. For me the best option might have a command-line interface, but a > GUI is good too. > > Wikipedia lists five rippers for "BSD and Linux": > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_ripper#BSD_and_Linux > > Asunder: http://littlesvr.ca/asunder/ > Brasero: http://projects.gnome.org/brasero/ > Grip: http://nostatic.org/grip/ > K3B: http://www.k3b.org/ > Sound Juicer: http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/sound-juicer > > I also ran across Rubyripper, which sounds quite intriguing: > > http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Rubyripper > > But I have to think that it must be slowed down significantly by all the care > that it puts into error correction. It uses "cdparanoia"... > > http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Cdparanoia > > ...as do at least Asunder and Grip, and perhaps others. I appreciate the > effort made by these programs to get the right answer. I just wonder if they > are slow. I'll probably have to test a couple of them. > > A friend who uses BSD recommended cdrecord, which comes with cdda2wav for > ripping. "It is not too bad," he wrote, "although its CLI is quite > detailed and takes some getting used to." > > Thanks in advance for any tips. > > Best, > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From scott at dier.name Sun Jan 4 18:36:11 2009 From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:36:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> References: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51d20ae60901041636l200876cdu4add3cc5053e65d6@mail.gmail.com> Most atom netbooks are ia32 only. AFAIK, only the desktop atom processors are 64 bit. Also, go vikes. On 1/4/09, Keith Bachman wrote: > The Dell is likely to come with a 32-bit install (64-bit has been > difficult at best for plugins etc) - but, it's in the price range > you're looking at, and throws some weight behind the "customers want > Linux" which is why I ordered the first one they put out last year. > (I got the 1505N) - plus all the hardware just WORKS. > > If you're going to put Linux on there anyway, might as well have it > come that way. > > Keith > > On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Troy wrote: >> I'm not sure if a mini/netbook is an option, but the guys over at Linux >> Action Show (about 34 minutes) claim the HP Mini works great with Ubuntu. >> >> Good Luck, >> >> Troy >> >> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Mike Miller >> wrote: >>> >>> It seems that there are many nice laptop computers in the below-$600 >>> range. I would like to buy one, remove the ugly Vista (if necessary) and >>> install Ubuntu. I expect that there will be some tricks to getting things >>> to work under Ubuntu, but some laptops are probably better than others. >>> >>> So my question is this: Which new laptops are best for Ubuntu? Have any >>> of you tried the Dell laptops with pre-installed Ubuntu? >>> >>> This machine looks nice... >>> >>> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0295188 >>> >>> ...but I don't see any info here... >>> >>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/Gateway >>> >>> ...so I don't know it it will be tricky to install Ubuntu on it. >>> >>> Dell has Ubuntu 8.04 laptops, and after appropriate customizations, the >>> price is pretty close to that of the Gateway above. Here's the Dell: >>> >>> >>> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwpl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=segtopic~linux_3x >>> >>> Adding these options... >>> >>> Intel Core 2 Duo T5800 (2.0GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) $50 >>> (I think the T7250 has Intel's "Virtualization Technology" added -- is >>> that worth $100?) >>> 3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 667MHz $50 >>> >>> ...brings the price up to $639 (after $15 in "instant savings"), but I'm >>> guessing I can add the 1 GB of RAM myself for less than $50 because >>> Crucial seems to sell 2GB for $22: >>> >>> http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Inspiron%201525 >>> >>> The system appears to be 64-bit, so I am assuming they will install the >>> 64-bit version of Ubuntu 8.04. >>> >>> So maybe Dell's Inspiron 1525N with preinstalled Ubuntu 8.04 is the way >>> to >>> go right now. Getting something that just works would be a huge >>> pleasure. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Sent from my mobile device Scott Dier From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sun Jan 4 18:48:05 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:48:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> References: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jan 2009, Keith Bachman wrote: > The Dell is likely to come with a 32-bit install (64-bit has been > difficult at best for plugins etc) - but, it's in the price range you're > looking at, and throws some weight behind the "customers want Linux" > which is why I ordered the first one they put out last year. (I got the > 1505N) - plus all the hardware just WORKS. > > If you're going to put Linux on there anyway, might as well have it come > that way. I agree with your ideas but note that some people have had problems with Ubuntu pre-installed on Dells and that was followed by bad experiences with Dell customer support. I might try it though and just hope I get lucky, like you obviously did. I don't use the laptop for much serious computing. For that I ssh to another machine. So I don't think the 32 v. 64 will really matter to me. So one really serious requirement for the laptop is that it let me connect to the web through wireless (or wired) access points in hotels, airports and coffee shops. If it won't do that roughly as effectively as a WinXP machine, it will be a serious limitation. I also want the sound card to work. That's pretty much all the important stuff. To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in hotels, airports and coffee shops? Mike From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu Mon Jan 5 09:07:59 2009 From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:07:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54387.152.65.129.201.1231168079.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu> On Sun, January 4, 2009 6:48 pm, Mike Miller wrote: > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in hotels, > airports and coffee shops? Once you get wireless working with your own APs, you should be set. Every hotel, airport, and meeting AP that I have ever used just required you to login by browser, and that always worked with whatever browser I had on Linux. Just try to load any outside web page, and you are redirected to a login page. Once you are logged in surf, the web, ssh, or do whatever else you please. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Tue Jan 6 18:21:17 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 18:21:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <54387.152.65.129.201.1231168079.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu> References: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> <54387.152.65.129.201.1231168079.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Jim Crumley wrote: > On Sun, January 4, 2009 6:48 pm, Mike Miller wrote: > >> To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in >> hotels, airports and coffee shops? > > Once you get wireless working with your own APs, you should be set. > > Every hotel, airport, and meeting AP that I have ever used just required > you to login by browser, and that always worked with whatever browser I > had on Linux. Just try to load any outside web page, and you are > redirected to a login page. Once you are logged in surf, the web, ssh, > or do whatever else you please. Excellent. I just keep it set for DHCP, I assume. Mike From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu Wed Jan 7 09:01:53 2009 From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:01:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> <54387.152.65.129.201.1231168079.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu> Message-ID: <59256.152.65.129.201.1231340513.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu> On Tue, January 6, 2009 6:21 pm, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Jim Crumley wrote: >> On Sun, January 4, 2009 6:48 pm, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in >>> hotels, airports and coffee shops? >> >> Once you get wireless working with your own APs, you should be set. >> >> Every hotel, airport, and meeting AP that I have ever used just required >> you to login by browser, and that always worked with whatever browser I >> had on Linux. Just try to load any outside web page, and you are >> redirected to a login page. Once you are logged in surf, the web, ssh, >> or do whatever else you please. > > Excellent. I just keep it set for DHCP, I assume. Yes, that's what I do. There are several packages available though, that can help you do fancier things. Some of them can detect what network you are on and assign a "static" IP accordingly, and fall back to DHCP if an unknown network is detected. -- Jim Crumley |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List (TCLUG) Ruthless Debian Zealot |http://www.mn-linux.org/ Never laugh at live dragons | From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 10:02:47 2009 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:02:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CD rippers/encoders for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <32fd45370901041239g746cb1f4nd59977ef2fe6a242@mail.gmail.com> References: <32fd45370901041239g746cb1f4nd59977ef2fe6a242@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c6699da0901070802o69f9773cv4171ad5e219d5909@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Keith Bachman wrote: > I just use the one built into Rythmbox, since I let that manage all of my music. I second Rythmbox, After trying multiple music players I've found it to have all the features I need, none that I don't, and it does a nice job of keeping things tidy. The music ripper isn't extravogant, but it "just works". -Brian From stutterstutt at comcast.net Wed Jan 7 14:45:38 2009 From: stutterstutt at comcast.net (Jeff Nelson) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:45:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: <34de7f3d0812262013u2d62109r8db1ef2cbe5a4734@mail.gmail.com> <32fd45370901041234o677eb397rac7daf4e6145d66a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49651472.1040706@comcast.net> Mike Miller wrote: > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in hotels, > airports and coffee shops? I've been told that laptops build around Intel chipsets tend to work better with GNU/Linux than others because they have better support in the Open Source arena. Of course, things change and YMMV. The key factor is whether or not your favorite distro supports the chipset used for wireless networking. I've worked and traveled with two different HP business-class laptops (hp Compaq nc6000 and hp Compaq nc6320). I use Ubuntu (Intrepid) and the Gnome desktop. gnome-network-manager handles switching from wired to wireless (and vice versa) and will automatically connect to a wireless network I've been on before. Based on my personal experience with them, I recommend taking a look at HP business laptops; they just work for me with little fuss. Refurbished HP business laptops are an especially good value. -Jeff P.S. Disclaimers: I work for HP. I am speaking for myself, not HP. My comments are based on my own personal experience. From admin at lctn.org Wed Jan 7 17:26:44 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:26:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories Message-ID: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> I need to remove old directories and files from /var/spool/Mailscanner/quarantine The following command gets rid of the files, but not the directories. What flag would I need to add to accomplish this? find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +10 -type f -exec rm -rf {} \; From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 17:53:24 2009 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:53:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> Message-ID: Remove the "-type f" The find man page is rather good, BTW. -Erik On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I need to remove old directories and files from > /var/spool/Mailscanner/quarantine > > The following command gets rid of the files, but not the directories. > What flag would I need to add to accomplish this? > > find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +10 -type f -exec rm -rf {} \; > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik Anderson http://andersonfam.org From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Jan 7 18:48:50 2009 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:48:50 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux Message-ID: <010820090048.18327.49654D72000DE21A0000479722007504380B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> I guess I have to disagree just a little. :-) I have an HP dv9010us. Quite the beast of a laptop, but I like being able to run dual hard drives, the widescreen, and the number pad on the right. (Yes, this is a wide laptop.) The internal wireless does NOT work with Linux. There are all sorts of sites outlining how to make it work... Bah! Easier to just plug an Edimax EW7318 into one of the 4 USB ports. Otherwise, everything else "just works" with Ubuntu v8.10 amd64 version. -- ========== Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Jeff Nelson > Mike Miller wrote: > > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in hotels, > > airports and coffee shops? > > I've been told that laptops build around Intel chipsets tend to work > better with GNU/Linux than others because they have better support in > the Open Source arena. Of course, things change and YMMV. The key factor > is whether or not your favorite distro supports the chipset used for > wireless networking. > > I've worked and traveled with two different HP business-class laptops > (hp Compaq nc6000 and hp Compaq nc6320). I use Ubuntu (Intrepid) and the > Gnome desktop. gnome-network-manager handles switching from wired to > wireless (and vice versa) and will automatically connect to a wireless > network I've been on before. > > Based on my personal experience with them, I recommend taking a look at > HP business laptops; they just work for me with little fuss. Refurbished > HP business laptops are an especially good value. > > -Jeff > > P.S. Disclaimers: I work for HP. I am speaking for myself, not HP. My > comments are based on my own personal experience. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Wed Jan 7 20:16:34 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:16:34 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2009, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > >> I need to remove old directories and files from >> /var/spool/Mailscanner/quarantine >> >> The following command gets rid of the files, but not the directories. >> What flag would I need to add to accomplish this? >> >> find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +10 -type f -exec rm -rf {} \; > > Remove the "-type f" Will the time stamp on a directory always be at least as new as the newest file in the tree within the directory? Apparently not -- I just checked it. I think you might mean that he should remove the "-type f" and also change the "-rf" to "-f". Look at this on your machine: ls -ld /home ls -ld /home/* See what I mean? Mike From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 22:20:44 2009 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:20:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > Will the time stamp on a directory always be at least as new as the newest > file in the tree within the directory? Excellent point, Mike. -Erik From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jan 7 23:21:18 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 23:21:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <010820090048.18327.49654D72000DE21A0000479722007504380B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > I guess I have to disagree just a little. :-) I'd strongly disagree with choosing an HP. I was a fan, and had other HP stuff that was good. I bought a top-of-the-line laptop. HP invented the IrDA interface, but US models did not have the external window and IR devices even though the mobo controller chip was there. Same model sold in Europe had complete IrDA. HP did not support Linux at all then, but had a program in France that did. I was eventually able to get some drivers from them. The modem was a Winmodem, so the driver issue for that was extra hard. The unit was not actually specified for "road warrior handling" (vibration, minor shock, etc) as the Dell Latitude series is (and Dell has IrDA). The CPU had ball-bond intermittent failures causing freezes. Replaced the motherboard and it happened again. Warranty ran 3 years and was non-renewable and HP gives NO HELP if not under warranty. Dell has lifetime tech support (and renewable warranty) in the Latitude series, so a lease return is a great buy. Was able to get Linux to run most stuff, but it was a pain and standard support was NO HELP. I'd never buy another HP computer... certainly not a laptop: weak or no specs, bad construction, terrible support, etc. Chuck > > I have an HP dv9010us. > Quite the beast of a laptop, but I like being able to run dual hard drives, the widescreen, and the number pad on the > right. (Yes, this is a wide laptop.) > The internal wireless does NOT work with Linux. > There are all sorts of sites outlining how to make it work... > Bah! > Easier to just plug an Edimax EW7318 into one of the 4 USB ports. > Otherwise, everything else "just works" with Ubuntu v8.10 amd64 version. > -- > ========== > Todd Young > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Jeff Nelson > > Mike Miller wrote: > > > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in hotels, > > > airports and coffee shops? > > > > I've been told that laptops build around Intel chipsets tend to work > > better with GNU/Linux than others because they have better support in > > the Open Source arena. Of course, things change and YMMV. The key factor > > is whether or not your favorite distro supports the chipset used for > > wireless networking. > > > > I've worked and traveled with two different HP business-class laptops > > (hp Compaq nc6000 and hp Compaq nc6320). I use Ubuntu (Intrepid) and the > > Gnome desktop. gnome-network-manager handles switching from wired to > > wireless (and vice versa) and will automatically connect to a wireless > > network I've been on before. > > > > Based on my personal experience with them, I recommend taking a look at > > HP business laptops; they just work for me with little fuss. Refurbished > > HP business laptops are an especially good value. > > > > -Jeff > > > > P.S. Disclaimers: I work for HP. I am speaking for myself, not HP. My > > comments are based on my own personal experience. > > > > _______________________________________________ > From Bruce.Broecker at toro.com Thu Jan 8 08:24:39 2009 From: Bruce.Broecker at toro.com (Bruce Broecker) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:24:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <010820090048.18327.49654D72000DE21A0000479722007504380B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> References: <010820090048.18327.49654D72000DE21A0000479722007504380B0B019B070B9A0E@comcast.net> Message-ID: I see your disagreement and raise you 'evidence'. I've got both an HP zv6000 and a dv9000 (I, too, like the dual hard drives and full keyboard) and have been able to get wireless working on both using the new kernel modules and NOT ndiswrapper. It is not as simple as plug and play, but SuSE provides scripts to download and install the correct firmware for the Broadcom chipsets. I simply plug it into a wired connection, run the scripts to get the firmware, and the system takes it from there. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:49 PM To: Jeff Nelson; Mike Miller Cc: TCLUG List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux I guess I have to disagree just a little. :-) I have an HP dv9010us. Quite the beast of a laptop, but I like being able to run dual hard drives, the widescreen, and the number pad on the right. (Yes, this is a wide laptop.) The internal wireless does NOT work with Linux. There are all sorts of sites outlining how to make it work... Bah! Easier to just plug an Edimax EW7318 into one of the 4 USB ports. Otherwise, everything else "just works" with Ubuntu v8.10 amd64 version. -- ========== Todd Young -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Jeff Nelson > Mike Miller wrote: > > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in hotels, > > airports and coffee shops? > > I've been told that laptops build around Intel chipsets tend to work > better with GNU/Linux than others because they have better support in > the Open Source arena. Of course, things change and YMMV. The key factor > is whether or not your favorite distro supports the chipset used for > wireless networking. > > I've worked and traveled with two different HP business-class laptops > (hp Compaq nc6000 and hp Compaq nc6320). I use Ubuntu (Intrepid) and the > Gnome desktop. gnome-network-manager handles switching from wired to > wireless (and vice versa) and will automatically connect to a wireless > network I've been on before. > > Based on my personal experience with them, I recommend taking a look at > HP business laptops; they just work for me with little fuss. Refurbished > HP business laptops are an especially good value. > > -Jeff > > P.S. Disclaimers: I work for HP. I am speaking for myself, not HP. My > comments are based on my own personal experience. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list This electronic message including any attachments ("Message") may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under trade secret and other applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, permanently delete all copies of this Message, and be aware that examination, use, dissemination, duplication or disclosure of this Message is strictly prohibited. From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Jan 8 09:17:20 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:17:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Broecker > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:25 AM > To: TCLUG List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > I see your disagreement and raise you 'evidence'. > > I've got both an HP zv6000 and a dv9000 (I, too, like the dual hard > drives and full keyboard) and have been able to get wireless working on > both using the new kernel modules and NOT ndiswrapper. It is not as > simple as plug and play, but SuSE provides scripts to download and > install the correct firmware for the Broadcom chipsets. I simply plug it > into a wired connection, run the scripts to get the firmware, and the > system takes it from there. > > Bruce I don't see relevant "evidence" at all. DIY feasibility was not the topic. Enjoy your bad internal physical design and poor support and enjoy that it works some of the time. I got mine to work some of the time also (with help from some TCLUG folk), and when working it was fine. However, I got really tired of the hardware failure problems and the not poor but really BAD HP support. Transient success is hardly "evidence" against the issues I raised, and a really poor basis to recommend buying, IMHO. Chuck > -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Cole [mailto:cncole at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:21 PM To: TCLUG List Cc: Mike Miller Subject: RE: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > I guess I have to disagree just a little. :-) I'd strongly disagree with choosing an HP. I was a fan, and had other HP stuff that was good. I bought a top-of-the-line laptop. HP invented the IrDA interface, but US models did not have the external window and IR devices even though the mobo controller chip was there. Same model sold in Europe had complete IrDA. HP did not support Linux at all then, but had a program in France that did. I was eventually able to get some drivers from them. The modem was a Winmodem, so the driver issue for that was extra hard. The unit was not actually specified for "road warrior handling" (vibration, minor shock, etc) as the Dell Latitude series is (and Dell has IrDA). The CPU had ball-bond intermittent failures causing freezes. Replaced the motherboard and it happened again. Warranty ran 3 years and was non-renewable and HP gives NO HELP if not under warranty. Dell has lifetime tech support (and renewable warranty) in the Latitude series, so a lease return is a great buy. Was able to get Linux to run most stuff, but it was a pain and standard support was NO HELP. I'd never buy another HP computer... certainly not a laptop: weak or no specs, bad construction, terrible support, etc. I am not paid by HP at all. Based upon my direct technical experience, and that of an authorized repair center. Chuck > > I have an HP dv9010us. > Quite the beast of a laptop, but I like being able to run dual hard drives, the widescreen, and the number pad on the > right. (Yes, this is a wide laptop.) > The internal wireless does NOT work with Linux. > There are all sorts of sites outlining how to make it work... > Bah! > Easier to just plug an Edimax EW7318 into one of the 4 USB ports. > Otherwise, everything else "just works" with Ubuntu v8.10 amd64 version. > -- > ========== > Todd Young > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Jeff Nelson > > Mike Miller wrote: > > > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in hotels, > > > airports and coffee shops? > > > > I've been told that laptops build around Intel chipsets tend to work > > better with GNU/Linux than others because they have better support in > > the Open Source arena. Of course, things change and YMMV. The key factor > > is whether or not your favorite distro supports the chipset used for > > wireless networking. > > > > I've worked and traveled with two different HP business-class laptops > > (hp Compaq nc6000 and hp Compaq nc6320). I use Ubuntu (Intrepid) and the > > Gnome desktop. gnome-network-manager handles switching from wired to > > wireless (and vice versa) and will automatically connect to a wireless > > network I've been on before. > > > > Based on my personal experience with them, I recommend taking a look at > > HP business laptops; they just work for me with little fuss. Refurbished > > HP business laptops are an especially good value. > > > > -Jeff > > > > P.S. Disclaimers: I work for HP. I am speaking for myself, not HP. My > > comments are based on my own personal experience. > > From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Jan 8 10:04:40 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:04:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Broecker [mailto:Bruce.Broecker at toro.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:28 AM > To: Chuck Cole > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > I made no claims of transient success. Your experience is probably temporary, due to the poor physical design and susceptibility under minor transportation vibrations even in properly padded cases. THAT is what I meant and experienced and explained as transient success. Chuck > Both of my HP laptops have been > rock solid. HP DID have a bad run when they were sourcing their laptops > from Twinhead, but that was years back and seems to have improved, in my > opinion. Obviously, your experience has been different and you are > entitled to hate HP. I was simply pointing out that my experience has > been positive. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Cole > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:17 AM > To: Bruce Broecker; TCLUG List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Broecker > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:25 AM > > To: TCLUG List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > > I see your disagreement and raise you 'evidence'. > > > > I've got both an HP zv6000 and a dv9000 (I, too, like the dual hard > > drives and full keyboard) and have been able to get wireless working > on > > both using the new kernel modules and NOT ndiswrapper. It is not as > > simple as plug and play, but SuSE provides scripts to download and > > install the correct firmware for the Broadcom chipsets. I simply plug > it > > into a wired connection, run the scripts to get the firmware, and the > > system takes it from there. > > > > Bruce > > I don't see relevant "evidence" at all. DIY feasibility was not the > topic. Enjoy your bad internal physical design and poor > support and enjoy that it works some of the time. I got mine to work > some of the time also (with help from some TCLUG folk), and > when working it was fine. However, I got really tired of the hardware > failure problems and the not poor but really BAD HP support. > Transient success is hardly "evidence" against the issues I raised, and > a really poor basis to recommend buying, IMHO. > > > Chuck > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Cole [mailto:cncole at earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:21 PM > To: TCLUG List > Cc: Mike Miller > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of > auditodd at comcast.net > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > > I guess I have to disagree just a little. :-) > > I'd strongly disagree with choosing an HP. I was a fan, and had other > HP stuff that was good. I bought a top-of-the-line laptop. > HP invented the IrDA interface, but US models did not have the external > window and IR devices even though the mobo controller chip > was there. Same model sold in Europe had complete IrDA. HP did not > support Linux at all then, but had a program in France that > did. I was eventually able to get some drivers from them. The modem > was a Winmodem, so the driver issue for that was extra hard. > The unit was not actually specified for "road warrior handling" > (vibration, minor shock, etc) as the Dell Latitude series is (and > Dell has IrDA). The CPU had ball-bond intermittent failures causing > freezes. Replaced the motherboard and it happened again. > Warranty ran 3 years and was non-renewable and HP gives NO HELP if not > under warranty. Dell has lifetime tech support (and > renewable warranty) in the Latitude series, so a lease return is a great > buy. Was able to get Linux to run most stuff, but it was a > pain and standard support was NO HELP. > > I'd never buy another HP computer... certainly not a laptop: weak or no > specs, bad construction, terrible support, etc. > > I am not paid by HP at all. Based upon my direct technical experience, > and that of an authorized repair center. > > Chuck > > > > > > I have an HP dv9010us. > > Quite the beast of a laptop, but I like being able to run dual hard > drives, the widescreen, and the number pad on the > > right. (Yes, this is a wide laptop.) > > The internal wireless does NOT work with Linux. > > There are all sorts of sites outlining how to make it work... > > Bah! > > Easier to just plug an Edimax EW7318 into one of the 4 USB ports. > > Otherwise, everything else "just works" with Ubuntu v8.10 amd64 > version. > > -- > > ========== > > Todd Young > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > From: Jeff Nelson > > > Mike Miller wrote: > > > > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in > hotels, > > > > airports and coffee shops? > > > > > > I've been told that laptops build around Intel chipsets tend to work > > > better with GNU/Linux than others because they have better support > in > > > the Open Source arena. Of course, things change and YMMV. The key > factor > > > is whether or not your favorite distro supports the chipset used for > > > wireless networking. > > > > > > I've worked and traveled with two different HP business-class > laptops > > > (hp Compaq nc6000 and hp Compaq nc6320). I use Ubuntu (Intrepid) and > the > > > Gnome desktop. gnome-network-manager handles switching from wired to > > > wireless (and vice versa) and will automatically connect to a > wireless > > > network I've been on before. > > > > > > Based on my personal experience with them, I recommend taking a look > at > > > HP business laptops; they just work for me with little fuss. > Refurbished > > > HP business laptops are an especially good value. > > > > > > -Jeff > > > > > > P.S. Disclaimers: I work for HP. I am speaking for myself, not HP. > My > > > comments are based on my own personal experience. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > This electronic message including any attachments ("Message") may contain information that is privileged, confidential > and/or exempt from disclosure under trade secret and other applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, notify > the sender immediately, permanently delete all copies of this Message, and be aware that examination, use, dissemination, > duplication or disclosure of this Message is strictly prohibited. > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.3/1879 - Release Date: 1/8/2009 8:13 AM > From josh at tcbug.org Thu Jan 8 10:16:10 2009 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:16:10 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> Message-ID: <496626CA.8030506@tcbug.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Erik Anderson wrote: > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >> Will the time stamp on a directory always be at least as new as the newest >> file in the tree within the directory? > > Excellent point, Mike. > > -Erik > It would be best to split it in to two commands. First purge old files find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarentine -mtime +10 -type f -delete Then purge any empty directories find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarentine -mtime +10 -type d -delete The second find will silently fail to remove any directory that still has files in it which in this case is what you want. - -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5ABC 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAklmJsoACgkQJvkB8SevrstYJwCgg6iyQ9PxWlFR3erHJWfgaWSf WekAn0BIRMSiv4Y4udpWEj6ryShR5LZ+ =ahwv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bbaptist at iexposure.com Thu Jan 8 10:19:41 2009 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:19:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200901081019.41571.bbaptist@iexposure.com> My HP NC6000 went to Iraq with me in a backpack. Suffered uncounted numbers of drops, bumps, and jars. My wife still uses it daily to do CAD work. You see anecdotal evidence is not absolute. Bret. On Thursday 08 January 2009 10:04:40 am Chuck Cole wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bruce Broecker [mailto:Bruce.Broecker at toro.com] > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:28 AM > > To: Chuck Cole > > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > > I made no claims of transient success. > > Your experience is probably temporary, due to the poor physical design and > susceptibility under minor transportation vibrations even in properly > padded cases. THAT is what I meant and experienced and explained as > transient success. > > Chuck > > > Both of my HP laptops have been > > rock solid. HP DID have a bad run when they were sourcing their laptops > > from Twinhead, but that was years back and seems to have improved, in my > > opinion. Obviously, your experience has been different and you are > > entitled to hate HP. I was simply pointing out that my experience has > > been positive. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Cole > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:17 AM > > To: Bruce Broecker; TCLUG List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Broecker > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:25 AM > > > To: TCLUG List > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > > > > > I see your disagreement and raise you 'evidence'. > > > > > > I've got both an HP zv6000 and a dv9000 (I, too, like the dual hard > > > drives and full keyboard) and have been able to get wireless working > > > > on > > > > > both using the new kernel modules and NOT ndiswrapper. It is not as > > > simple as plug and play, but SuSE provides scripts to download and > > > install the correct firmware for the Broadcom chipsets. I simply plug > > > > it > > > > > into a wired connection, run the scripts to get the firmware, and the > > > system takes it from there. > > > > > > Bruce > > > > I don't see relevant "evidence" at all. DIY feasibility was not the > > topic. Enjoy your bad internal physical design and poor > > support and enjoy that it works some of the time. I got mine to work > > some of the time also (with help from some TCLUG folk), and > > when working it was fine. However, I got really tired of the hardware > > failure problems and the not poor but really BAD HP support. > > Transient success is hardly "evidence" against the issues I raised, and > > a really poor basis to recommend buying, IMHO. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chuck Cole [mailto:cncole at earthlink.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:21 PM > > To: TCLUG List > > Cc: Mike Miller > > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of > > auditodd at comcast.net > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:49 PM > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux > > > > > > > > > I guess I have to disagree just a little. :-) > > > > I'd strongly disagree with choosing an HP. I was a fan, and had other > > HP stuff that was good. I bought a top-of-the-line laptop. > > HP invented the IrDA interface, but US models did not have the external > > window and IR devices even though the mobo controller chip > > was there. Same model sold in Europe had complete IrDA. HP did not > > support Linux at all then, but had a program in France that > > did. I was eventually able to get some drivers from them. The modem > > was a Winmodem, so the driver issue for that was extra hard. > > The unit was not actually specified for "road warrior handling" > > (vibration, minor shock, etc) as the Dell Latitude series is (and > > Dell has IrDA). The CPU had ball-bond intermittent failures causing > > freezes. Replaced the motherboard and it happened again. > > Warranty ran 3 years and was non-renewable and HP gives NO HELP if not > > under warranty. Dell has lifetime tech support (and > > renewable warranty) in the Latitude series, so a lease return is a great > > buy. Was able to get Linux to run most stuff, but it was a > > pain and standard support was NO HELP. > > > > I'd never buy another HP computer... certainly not a laptop: weak or no > > specs, bad construction, terrible support, etc. > > > > I am not paid by HP at all. Based upon my direct technical experience, > > and that of an authorized repair center. > > > > Chuck > > > > > I have an HP dv9010us. > > > Quite the beast of a laptop, but I like being able to run dual hard > > > > drives, the widescreen, and the number pad on the > > > > > right. (Yes, this is a wide laptop.) > > > The internal wireless does NOT work with Linux. > > > There are all sorts of sites outlining how to make it work... > > > Bah! > > > Easier to just plug an Edimax EW7318 into one of the 4 USB ports. > > > Otherwise, everything else "just works" with Ubuntu v8.10 amd64 > > > > version. > > > > > -- > > > ========== > > > Todd Young > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > From: Jeff Nelson > > > > > > > Mike Miller wrote: > > > > > To the list -- What are your experiences with GNU/Linux laptops in > > > > hotels, > > > > > > > airports and coffee shops? > > > > > > > > I've been told that laptops build around Intel chipsets tend to work > > > > better with GNU/Linux than others because they have better support > > > > in > > > > > > the Open Source arena. Of course, things change and YMMV. The key > > > > factor > > > > > > is whether or not your favorite distro supports the chipset used for > > > > wireless networking. > > > > > > > > I've worked and traveled with two different HP business-class > > > > laptops > > > > > > (hp Compaq nc6000 and hp Compaq nc6320). I use Ubuntu (Intrepid) and > > > > the > > > > > > Gnome desktop. gnome-network-manager handles switching from wired to > > > > wireless (and vice versa) and will automatically connect to a > > > > wireless > > > > > > network I've been on before. > > > > > > > > Based on my personal experience with them, I recommend taking a look > > > > at > > > > > > HP business laptops; they just work for me with little fuss. > > > > Refurbished > > > > > > HP business laptops are an especially good value. > > > > > > > > -Jeff > > > > > > > > P.S. Disclaimers: I work for HP. I am speaking for myself, not HP. > > > > My > > > > > > comments are based on my own personal experience. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > This electronic message including any attachments ("Message") may contain > > information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from > > disclosure under trade secret and other applicable law. If you are not > > the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, permanently delete > > all copies of this Message, and be aware that examination, use, > > dissemination, duplication or disclosure of this Message is strictly > > prohibited. No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.3/1879 - Release Date: 1/8/2009 > > 8:13 AM > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Bret Baptist Senior Network Administrator bbaptist at iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612) 676-1946 x17 Providing Internet Services since 1995 Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing From admin at lctn.org Thu Jan 8 10:45:01 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:45:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: <496626CA.8030506@tcbug.org> References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> <496626CA.8030506@tcbug.org> Message-ID: <49662D8D.7040509@lctn.org> > It would be best to split it in to two commands. > > First purge old files > find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarentine -mtime +10 -type f -delete > > Then purge any empty directories > find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarentine -mtime +10 -type d -delete > > The second find will silently fail to remove any directory that still > has files in it which in this case is what you want. Good idea. Thanks for the responses. From josh at tcbug.org Thu Jan 8 11:10:53 2009 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:10:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <200901081019.41571.bbaptist@iexposure.com> References: <200901081019.41571.bbaptist@iexposure.com> Message-ID: <4966339D.3070401@tcbug.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bret Baptist wrote: > My HP NC6000 went to Iraq with me in a backpack. Suffered uncounted numbers > of drops, bumps, and jars. My wife still uses it daily to do CAD work. > > You see anecdotal evidence is not absolute. > > > Bret. Attempting to provide generalized advice from a very small sample really can't tell you anything. I've owned three dodges, they all had horrific reliability problems. Someone else that has owned a dodge may tell me they are the most reliable car they've ever owned. What does that tell anyone else? At best it tells you that I've had three unreliable dodges, it's not until one looks at the big picture that you can draw conclusions. When it comes to manufactured products you can't make assertions about the general case from personal experience. At low sample rates you can get a perfectly fine individual item from the worst design ever, or you can get a pile of junk from a superstellar design. This gets compounded by the ability of people to find others who affirm their assertions. Go around saying X is junk and you'll quickly find people who agree with you. Ditto if you claim it's the best thing ever. - -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5ABC 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAklmM50ACgkQJvkB8SevrstTXwCbBzqTzfTdWD7wjcfbol+JD4Hu P1AAmwfx5mY7kds/vCRPcLbdW+bGqARw =f3Ci -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bbaptist at iexposure.com Thu Jan 8 12:28:58 2009 From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:28:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <4966339D.3070401@tcbug.org> References: <200901081019.41571.bbaptist@iexposure.com> <4966339D.3070401@tcbug.org> Message-ID: <200901081228.58905.bbaptist@iexposure.com> On Thursday 08 January 2009 11:10:53 am Josh Paetzel wrote: > Bret Baptist wrote: > > You see anecdotal evidence is not absolute. > > Attempting to provide generalized advice from a very small sample really > can't tell you anything. Do I hear an echo in here? -- Bret Baptist Senior Network Administrator bbaptist at iexposure.com Internet Exposure, Inc. http://www.iexposure.com (612) 676-1946 x17 Providing Internet Services since 1995 Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Jan 8 12:46:35 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:46:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] laptops for GNU/Linux In-Reply-To: <200901081228.58905.bbaptist@iexposure.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Bret Baptist > > On Thursday 08 January 2009 11:10:53 am Josh Paetzel wrote: > > Bret Baptist wrote: > > > You see anecdotal evidence is not absolute. > > > > Attempting to provide generalized advice from a very small sample really > > can't tell you anything. > > Do I hear an echo in here? Yes. That's why I included mention of the experience of a major independent HP repair center in my original note about bad design, etc. Chuck From webmaster at mn-linux.org Fri Jan 9 08:21:44 2009 From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:21:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad Message-ID: <200901091421.n09ELiP25348@crusader.real-time.com> New TCLUG Classified Ad Category: Computer Type of Ad: For Free Subject: Dell 2400 Poweredge Server - Free Dell 2400 Poweredge 2400 Service tag: 9r4f00b CPU 2 x PIII 866 768 MB RAM RAID (currently RAID 5 config) 4 x 9 GB Hot Swap SCSI drives 2 x empty Hot Swap drive bays No OS Just pulled out of service 2 weeks ago. Works great, we just don't need it anymore. Located in Minnetonka. More pics: www.welshco.com / test / Dell2400back.jpg www.welshco.com / test / Dell2400drives.jpg Contact Jim Streit 952-897-7791 jstreit at welshco.com Seller Email address: jimstreit at northlans dot com http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi From haircut at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 22:50:27 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:50:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] invoking Bash debugger from inside a Bash script Message-ID: <1231563027.16705.5.camel@localhost> Anyone know why I can't invoke the Bash debugger from inside a Bash script on Ubuntu 8.10? I've installed the bash debugger like so: sudo apt-get install bashdb I can debug full Bash scripts just fine: bashdb test.sh But when I run this script, which, according to the bashdb documentation is one of the steps in starting the debugger within a script: --------------------------8<-------------------------- #!/bin/bash source /usr/share/bashdb/bashdb-trace -------------------------->8-------------------------- I get the following error: --------------------------8<-------------------------- test.sh: cannot read . Perhaps bashdb is installed wrong. test.sh: or try using -L (with a different directory). -------------------------->8-------------------------- Any ideas? -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090109/0938f3a7/attachment.pgp From gnomes60 at charter.net Fri Jan 9 22:56:56 2009 From: gnomes60 at charter.net (The Gnome) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:56:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49682A98.8070802@charter.net> We are coming to the cities next Wednesday. If you can hold them, I'll be happy to take them off your hands. If Wednesday is OK with you, then we got a deal. Von geek.at.large at starpoint -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090109/7e095cf2/attachment.htm From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sat Jan 10 01:35:19 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:35:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] invoking Bash debugger from inside a Bash script In-Reply-To: <1231563027.16705.5.camel@localhost> References: <1231563027.16705.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Adam Monsen wrote: > Anyone know why I can't invoke the Bash debugger from inside a Bash > script on Ubuntu 8.10? > > I've installed the bash debugger like so: > > sudo apt-get install bashdb > > I can debug full Bash scripts just fine: > > bashdb test.sh > > But when I run this script, which, according to the bashdb documentation > is one of the steps in starting the debugger within a script: > > --------------------------8<-------------------------- > #!/bin/bash > source /usr/share/bashdb/bashdb-trace > -------------------------->8-------------------------- > > I get the following error: > --------------------------8<-------------------------- > test.sh: cannot read . Perhaps bashdb is installed wrong. > test.sh: or try using -L (with a different directory). > -------------------------->8-------------------------- > > Any ideas? What happens when you run this on the bash command line: source /usr/share/bashdb/bashdb-trace The error message is that it "cannot read ." So is bashdb-trace trying to read something in the default directory that it isn't finding? A mistake I sometimes make, which might not apply here, is to forget that the environment in the script is different in some way -- like it doesn't know the path or something. Usually that happens when I execute the script as root in a crontab or using sudo. Mike P.S. -- A "gotcha" from last night: I was trying to scp a file into /usr/local/src and it kept failing. Then I realized it was because I didn't have write permissions in /usr/local/src on the local machine so I tried "sudo scp ..." and that also failed, but for a different reason: It was because I was then trying to login as root, which was disallowed and had a different password. Joke: A guy says to his wife "make me a sandwich." She says "no." So he says "sudo make me a sandwich" and she says "OK." (I think I stole that one from xkcd.) From johntrammell at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 08:59:58 2009 From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John Trammell) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:59:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <49682A98.8070802@charter.net> References: <49682A98.8070802@charter.net> Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0901100659nc2f150bx6fe59688249ac28c@mail.gmail.com> I'll be DAMNED if I'm letting anybody take the Twin Cities off my hands! :-) On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:56 PM, The Gnome wrote: > We are coming to the cities next Wednesday. If you can hold them, I'll be > happy to take them off your hands. If Wednesday is OK with you, then we got > a deal. From gnomes60 at charter.net Sat Jan 10 09:28:13 2009 From: gnomes60 at charter.net (The Gnome) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:28:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <68dbb6fe0901100659nc2f150bx6fe59688249ac28c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49682A98.8070802@charter.net> <68dbb6fe0901100659nc2f150bx6fe59688249ac28c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4968BE8D.4060302@charter.net> Mr. Trammell, you are one selfish person. How about the area from the road west of Crossroads Deli to the Barnes and Nobles side of Galleria Mall? Von geek.at.large at starpoint.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090110/0d793fec/attachment.htm From johntrammell at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 09:32:48 2009 From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John Trammell) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:32:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <4968BE8D.4060302@charter.net> References: <49682A98.8070802@charter.net> <68dbb6fe0901100659nc2f150bx6fe59688249ac28c@mail.gmail.com> <4968BE8D.4060302@charter.net> Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0901100732j4b17a4bcq94e3d1f5f8bde723@mail.gmail.com> Only if I get visitation on alternate weekends. On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:28 AM, The Gnome wrote: > Mr. Trammell, you are one selfish person. How about the area from the road > west of Crossroads Deli to the Barnes and Nobles side of Galleria Mall? > > > Von > > geek.at.large at starpoint.net > From gnomes60 at charter.net Sat Jan 10 11:39:48 2009 From: gnomes60 at charter.net (The Gnome) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:39:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <68dbb6fe0901100732j4b17a4bcq94e3d1f5f8bde723@mail.gmail.com> References: <49682A98.8070802@charter.net> <68dbb6fe0901100659nc2f150bx6fe59688249ac28c@mail.gmail.com> <4968BE8D.4060302@charter.net> <68dbb6fe0901100732j4b17a4bcq94e3d1f5f8bde723@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4968DD64.60909@charter.net> So let it be written. So let it be done. You'll Brenner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090110/eeb83885/attachment.htm From haircut at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 12:17:54 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:17:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] invoking Bash debugger from inside a Bash script In-Reply-To: References: <1231563027.16705.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1231611474.16705.111.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 01:35 -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > What happens when you run this on the bash command line: > > source /usr/share/bashdb/bashdb-trace When I do this in a virtual terminal (gnome-terminal or uxterm) I see the same error message briefly: bash: cannot read . Perhaps bashdb is installed wrong. bash: or try using -L (with a different directory). before the terminal closes. > The error message is that it "cannot read ." So is bashdb-trace > trying to read something in the default directory that it isn't > finding? Ah, I think that's close! Yes, when I look at the bashdb-trace script, it is trying to find libraries in ${prefix}/share/bashdb by default, but $prefix is not set. I should have paid more attention to the error message. The following works: source /usr/share/bashdb/bashdb-trace -L /usr/share/bashdb This also works: export prefix=/usr source /usr/share/bashdb/bashdb-trace Not sure which way is correct, so I posted the question in the bashdb "open discussion" forum on sf.net: http://tinyurl.com/7ncbk7 Also looks like Ubuntu 8.10 is using an older version of the debugger than is available at http://bashdb.sf.net . -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090110/49cba2e7/attachment.pgp From haircut at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 12:26:07 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:26:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] invoking Bash debugger from inside a Bash script In-Reply-To: References: <1231563027.16705.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <9ebd65110901101026w31c4cacbs51c36dca3edf087f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michael, On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Michael Moore wrote: > Isn't Ubuntu's default 'bash' actually dash? /bin/sh is dash. Ubuntu's bash is still bash. > Could that be the problem? Not in this case. Since I started using Ubuntu, I'm careful to reference Bash explicitly in shebang lines and via the command line (like "bash testscript.sh"). > See : > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dash/+bug/61463 -- Adam Monsen From christophermsmith at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 10:38:18 2009 From: christophermsmith at gmail.com (Chris Smith) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:38:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] DNAT not working In-Reply-To: <9ebd65110901101026w31c4cacbs51c36dca3edf087f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I was dnat'ing to an internal web server happily.. Then I installed "FOG" ( http://www.fogproject.org/ ) and now, even with apache shut down on the firewall/fogserver box dnat doesn't seem to work.. I realize this isn't much to go on, but with the local server turned off and shorewall set to forward to internal server.. This is my config for shorewall.. I feel like I am missing something obvious..maybe the "fog" is a red herring.. Any ideas? I don't see why if Shorewal/iptables is the first thing touching the incoming packets why having installed fog would matter. ACTION SOURCE DEST PROTO DEST SOURCE ORIGINAL RATE USER/ # PORT PORT(S) DEST LIMIT GROUP # Accept DNS connections from the firewall to the network ACCEPT fw net tcp 53 ACCEPT fw net udp 53 # Accept SSH connections from the local network for administration ACCEPT loc fw tcp ssh #ACCEPT all all tcp ssh ACCEPT net loc:192.168.2.2 udp www ACCEPT net loc:192.168.2.2 tcp www DNAT net:XX.XX.XX.XX loc:192.168.2.2 tcp www DNAT net:XX.XX.XX.XX loc:192.168.2.2 udp www # OpenVPN2 ACCEPT all all udp 1194 ACCEPT all all udp 1194 # NTP Protocol ACCEPT fw net udp ntp # necessary for SAMBA on the local interface for 3.0 shorewall and above. SMB/ACCEPT $FW loc SMB/ACCEPT loc $FW ACCEPT loc $FW tcp ftp ACCEPT loc $FW udp ftp #LAST LINE -- ADD YOUR ENTRIES BEFORE THIS ONE -- DO NOT REMOVE [ Read 33 lines ] ^G Get Help ^O WriteOut ^R Read File ^Y Prev Page ^K Cut Text ^C Cur Pos ^X Exit ^J Justify ^W Where Is ^V Next Page ^U UnCut Text ^T To Spell From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Thu Jan 15 13:06:23 2009 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:06:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Existing Slackware 12.1 moving to Software Raid 1 Message-ID: <496F892F.4090403@b-o-b.homelinux.com> I was curious if anyone knew of a good how to that explains the steps for moving an existing non-raid system to a RAID 1 setup. The system currently has an 80G hard drive running Slackware 12.1. I would like to move the file system from the 80G hard drive to a RAID 1 setup using 2 x 500G drives, and then toss the 80G in the trash. If any one knows of a document(s), I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Bob From strayf at freeshell.org Thu Jan 15 14:21:09 2009 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:21:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Existing Slackware 12.1 moving to Software Raid 1 In-Reply-To: <496F892F.4090403@b-o-b.homelinux.com> References: <496F892F.4090403@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <496F9AB5.2070605@freeshell.org> Robert De Mars wrote: > I was curious if anyone knew of a good how to that explains the steps > for moving an existing non-raid system to a RAID 1 setup. > > The system currently has an 80G hard drive running Slackware 12.1. > > I would like to move the file system from the 80G hard drive to a RAID 1 > setup using 2 x 500G drives, and then toss the 80G in the trash. > > If any one knows of a document(s), I would greatly appreciate it. Here are my notes-to-self from when I did the same thing. This was on Debian. This should at least sketch out the general process... * Initial drive is in hda. * Installed one of the new drives in hdc. * I partitioned hdc with 4 primary partitions to be / (md1), /tmp (md2), /var (md3), and swap (md4) all with partition type 0xfd. This means swap will be on RAID as well. Probably would be easier to use a swap file rather than a swap partition, but this is how I did it. * Used mdadm to create md1 as RAID1 array of /dev/hdc1 with the second device listed as "missing" so it would come up in degraded form. * Did the same for md2, md3, and md4 * Added the new arrays to /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf * Mounted the new arrays for /, /tmp, and /var under /newsys/, /newsys/tmp, and /newsys/var * Copied most everything over to newsys by cd'ing to / then issuing "tar -c bin boot etc home mnt usr {...etc} | ( cd /newsys ; tar -xvp )". Where {...etc} means the rest of the directories in the root dir which I wanted to copy. Directories I did not copy were /dev, /proc/, /newsys, /sys. * Made directories dev, proc, sys under newsys as mounting points * Copied the basic dev files by binding / (the root) to /tmproot to get at the actual dev files hidden by the udev system, (e.g. mount --bind / /tmproot ), then using the same tar pipe to copy from /tmproot/dev to /newsys/dev. I don't know how important this step is, but seems like it might be necessary to hold things until udev comes up on boot. * Edited /newsys/etc/fstab to switch to the new arrays * Edited /newsys/boot/grub/menu.lst to direct grub to (hd1,0) for root, and change the kernel params to say root=/dev/md1 * Ran in grub shell: "root (hd1,0) ; setup (hd1) ; setup (hd0)" so both drives mbr's would look to /dev/hdc1 for the root filesystem to boot. At this point I could still boot back into the old system by changing grub to root (hd0,0). (Which I did several times since I forgot to create directories for proc and sys without which the boot up failed. * Once booting into the new arrays works well, install second new drive in /dev/hda and fdisk it to make it match the other drive and set the types to 0xfd (raid element) * I hot-added the hda partitions into the arrays (e.g. mdadm -add /dev/md1 /dev/hda1, etc.) and watched while it synched everything. * I added the hda partitions into /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf * I ran grub and did a root (hd0,0) ; setup (hd0) so that grub on each mbr would look to it's own drive for the root system. Then if one drive dies completely I should still be able to boot off the other. * I reboot a couple times to make sure everything would come up ok. From sloncho at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 14:41:47 2009 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:41:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Existing Slackware 12.1 moving to Software Raid 1 In-Reply-To: <496F892F.4090403@b-o-b.homelinux.com> References: <496F892F.4090403@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Robert De Mars wrote: > I was curious if anyone knew of a good how to that explains the steps > for moving an existing non-raid system to a RAID 1 setup. > > The system currently has an 80G hard drive running Slackware 12.1. > > I would like to move the file system from the 80G hard drive to a RAID 1 > setup using 2 x 500G drives, and then toss the 80G in the trash. > > If any one knows of a document(s), I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thanks, > > Bob > Hi Robert, I'd suggest that using some live CD (GParted: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php), you copy your existing partitions from the old drive to one of the new ones. Then boot from the new drive, and follow these instructions to convert to RAID 1 on the fly (debian article): http://www.ctunion.com/node/178 Cheers -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. From tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com Thu Jan 15 15:35:57 2009 From: tclug at b-o-b.homelinux.com (Robert De Mars) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:35:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Existing Slackware 12.1 moving to Software Raid 1 In-Reply-To: <20090115201401.GK19750@iris.iucha.org> References: <496F892F.4090403@b-o-b.homelinux.com> <20090115201401.GK19750@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <496FAC3D.4020309@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 01:06:23PM -0600, Robert De Mars wrote: >> I was curious if anyone knew of a good how to that explains the steps >> for moving an existing non-raid system to a RAID 1 setup. >> >> The system currently has an 80G hard drive running Slackware 12.1. >> >> I would like to move the file system from the 80G hard drive to a RAID 1 >> setup using 2 x 500G drives, and then toss the 80G in the trash. >> >> If any one knows of a document(s), I would greatly appreciate it. > > Bob, > > Do you need this for the office, or for home? (I can swing by and chat > about it.) Basically I would connect all three hard drives at the same > time, boot a rescue distro from a USB/CD and copy the data, then > adjust the mount paths, install grub and reboot. > > florin > This is for the office. The box was a test machine that one day decided to go into production. It is now months later, and there is no going back. You are more than welcome to swing by anytime, but I must warn you that our office is on the edge of the world aka Oakdale, MN. Do I have to use GRUB, or can I do this using LILO? Thanks, Bob From andyzib at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 15:57:05 2009 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:57:05 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Existing Slackware 12.1 moving to Software Raid 1 In-Reply-To: References: <496F892F.4090403@b-o-b.homelinux.com> Message-ID: The Linux Documentation project has a Hard Drive Upgrade HOWTO. Moving from a single disk to a RAID set isn't really any different once you have the RAID setup. Setup your partitions and RAID, copy files over, set the RAID set to be bootable, shutdown, remove old drive, cross fingers, power on. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From jpschewe at mtu.net Fri Jan 16 16:30:04 2009 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:30:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Trying to broadcast to LAN with unknown netmask Message-ID: <49710A6C.3020900@mtu.net> I've got some embedded devices on my LAN that I'm working with and I'm not sure what their netmask will be, but I know they will respond to a particular UDP packet, so I'd like to send that UDP packet to 255.255.255.255, but that doesn't appear to be working. If I send to my broadcast address 10.0.0.255, then I see the packet leave my machine with tcpdump, however the full broadcast address doesn't work. Yes, I've set SO_BROADCAST for the socket. Any ideas? -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39 From tclug at lizakowski.com Sat Jan 17 14:20:36 2009 From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:20:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tue Jan 20, 6:30 - 8:00 pm In-Reply-To: <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> The next TCLUG meeting is Tue Jan 20th! UofM EE/Csci Building Room #3-125 Adam will be talking about Version Control: Title 18.2 Reasons Why You Can't Live Without Version Control Subtitle first principles, tips, and tricks of version control by example using Subversion Abstract Whether you're a non-techie, brand-spanking-new to the command line or a wizened kung-fu coder, you can benefit from version control. Come learn skills that will propel you from beginner to hardened veteran! Come meet talented and lively members of the Twin Cities Linux User Group! Live demonstrations will be shown using the Subversion version control system, but the concepts are portable to other version control systems. Speaker Adam Monsen is a software engineer with an intense desire to help lift people out of poverty by engineering robust and efficient Free and Open Source Software. He is a GNU/Linux enthusiast and he enjoys cheesy classic Sci-Fi movies. Adam works at the Grameen Foundation USA on software to help banks manage microloans. He is also a computer science graduate student at the University of Minnesota. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090117/fce31f85/attachment.htm From haircut at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 08:35:48 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:35:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> Mail-Followup-To: TCLUG Great! Please feel free to forward on the invite. I sent the announcement to the CS Grads mailing list (and as you can see I cross-posted this to the MN Ubuntu list). Here's a map for folks besides Mike who may not know exactly where EE/CS is: http://www1.umn.edu/twincities/maps/EECSci/ On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > Adam-- > > This will be great. I can't wait. The timing is perfect because I > really need to start using subversion with software I've been > working on. > > Mike > > > On Sat, 17 Jan 2009, Jeremy wrote: > >> The next TCLUG meeting is Tue Jan 20th! >> >> UofM EE/Csci Building Room #3-125 >> >> Adam will be talking about Version Control: >> >> Title >> 18.2 Reasons Why You Can't Live Without Version Control >> >> Subtitle >> first principles, tips, and tricks of version control by >> example using Subversion >> >> Abstract >> Whether you're a non-techie, brand-spanking-new to the >> command line or a wizened kung-fu coder, you can benefit from >> version control. Come learn skills that will propel you from >> beginner to hardened veteran! Come meet talented and >> lively members of the Twin Cities Linux User Group! Live >> demonstrations will be shown using the Subversion version >> control system, but the concepts are portable to other >> version control systems. >> >> Speaker >> Adam Monsen is a software engineer with an intense desire to >> help lift people out of poverty by engineering robust and >> efficient Free and Open Source Software. He is a GNU/Linux >> enthusiast and he enjoys cheesy classic Sci-Fi movies. >> >> Adam works at the Grameen Foundation USA on software to help >> banks manage microloans. He is also a computer science >> graduate student at the University of Minnesota. > -- Adam Monsen From tclug at jfoo.org Sun Jan 18 10:27:33 2009 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:27:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> Adam Monsen wrote: > Mail-Followup-To: TCLUG > > > Great! Please feel free to forward on the invite. >> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009, Jeremy wrote: >> >>> The next TCLUG meeting is Tue Jan 20th! >>> >>> UofM EE/Csci Building Room #3-125 >>> >>> Adam will be talking about Version Control: Hi Adam, A couple of questions: will you be talking about the difference between SVN and Git/Mercurial? Subversion in a recent (past year or so) release did something to make them more Mercurial-like, I think it was to make SVN more distrubted rather than a central repository. Will you be talking about this? How much branching and merging will you talk about? Thanks, j From haircut at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 13:48:13 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:48:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tue Jan 20, 6:30 - 8:00 pm In-Reply-To: <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <1232308093.26431.4.camel@localhost> Hi John, On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 10:27 -0600, John Gateley wrote: > will you be talking about the difference between SVN and > Git/Mercurial? Not specifically. I'll spend a little bit talking about how distributed/decentralized version control systems differ from and build on the fundamentals of version control. > Subversion in a recent (past year or so) release did something to > make them more Mercurial-like, I think it was to make SVN more > distrubted rather than a central repository. Will you be talking > about this? No, I'm not aware of this. I'd love to hear more, though. > How much branching and merging will you talk about? I'll spend a good chunk of time on these. I have several examples. -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090118/b06d69f6/attachment.pgp From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sun Jan 18 13:55:12 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:55:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2009, John Gateley wrote: > Adam Monsen wrote: >> Mail-Followup-To: TCLUG >> >> >> Great! Please feel free to forward on the invite. > >>> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009, Jeremy wrote: >>> >>>> The next TCLUG meeting is Tue Jan 20th! >>>> >>>> UofM EE/Csci Building Room #3-125 >>>> >>>> Adam will be talking about Version Control: > > Hi Adam, > > A couple of questions: > will you be talking about the difference between SVN and Git/Mercurial? > > Subversion in a recent (past year or so) release did something to make > them more Mercurial-like, I think it was to make SVN more distrubted > rather than a central repository. Will you be talking about this? > > How much branching and merging will you talk about? He has said that he wants it to be introductory so that it can be understood by "a non-techie, brand-spanking-new to the command line," but I don't know if that will stop him from talking about other systems. I personally want to know how the various approaches to version control are different. I've used both CVS and Subversion in a very limited way - just to download someone else's code, so I don't even know how CVS and Subversion differ, and I think they are very different (you don't have to tell me because I can look it up!). I've been looking around for more info, so I'll sharing some of my findings here. I'm going to try to read this before Tuesday: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-09-2007/jw-09-versioncontrol.html Wikipedia seems to prefer the term "distributed revision control" software to "distributed version control systems" (DVCS). They have a general article and a list of such software programs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_revision_control http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revision_control_software At the second URL you will find links to Wikipedia entries for more than a dozen "open source" revision control software projects. You can also read on Wikipedia about revision control (not necessarily distributed)... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control ...and their "comparison of revision control software": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software That page shows this nice table of program features... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software#Features ...where I see that one Free Software program gets "Yes" for every feature and that program is SVK -- it "uses the Subversion filesystem but provides additional features:" * Offline operations like checkin, log, merge. * Distributed branches. * Lightweight checkout copy management (no .svn directories). * Advanced merge algorithms, like star-merge and cherry picking. * Changeset signing and verification. * Can mirror and operate on Subversion, Perforce and CVS repositories I notice that GNU arch gets mentioned a lot. Mike From florin at iucha.net Sun Jan 18 14:12:32 2009 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:12:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <20090118201232.GR19750@iris.iucha.org> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 01:55:12PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > At the second URL you will find links to Wikipedia entries for more than a > dozen "open source" revision control software projects. You can also read > on Wikipedia about revision control (not necessarily distributed)... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_control > > ...and their "comparison of revision control software": > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software > > That page shows this nice table of program features... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_revision_control_software#Features > > ...where I see that one Free Software program gets "Yes" for every feature > and that program is SVK -- it "uses the Subversion filesystem but provides > additional features:" > > * Offline operations like checkin, log, merge. > * Distributed branches. > * Lightweight checkout copy management (no .svn directories). > * Advanced merge algorithms, like star-merge and cherry picking. > * Changeset signing and verification. > * Can mirror and operate on Subversion, Perforce and CVS repositories > > I notice that GNU arch gets mentioned a lot. Good overview Mike. I don't have the references handy, but one thing to keep in mind is that KDE and Gnome migrated from CVS to Subversion a few years ago, and are moving to git now. GCC developers are still at Subversion stage but seriously considering git as well. Mozilla and Open Solaris are using mercurial. I'm not aware of any large scale projects that use (or seriously considering arch or SVK). Also, the original enthusiasm for Subversion seems to be waning... Cheers, florin PS: Adam, please don't take this personally. Your talk will be useful to people who are not aware what are they missing by not using a source control system, and subversion is a good start. -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090118/3625724a/attachment.pgp From tclug at jfoo.org Sun Jan 18 14:45:24 2009 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:45:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tue Jan 20, 6:30 - 8:00 pm In-Reply-To: <1232308093.26431.4.camel@localhost> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <1232308093.26431.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <497394E4.80505@jfoo.org> Adam Monsen wrote: >> Subversion in a recent (past year or so) release did something to >> make them more Mercurial-like, I think it was to make SVN more >> distrubted rather than a central repository. Will you be talking >> about this? > > No, I'm not aware of this. I'd love to hear more, though. It was SVN 1.5 where the change occurred, and it's covered here: http://subversion.tigris.org/svn_1.5_releasenotes.html#merge-tracking If I understand right, it's marking changes with a distinct ID (probably a GUID) instead of a change number, allowing finer control of merging. I've never used 1.5 and wonder if the upgrade is worth it - I think it requires a change in data structure. j From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sun Jan 18 14:47:32 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:47:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: <20090118201232.GR19750@iris.iucha.org> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <20090118201232.GR19750@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2009, Florin Iucha wrote: > the original enthusiasm for Subversion seems to be waning... > > PS: Adam, please don't take this personally. Your talk will be useful > to people who are not aware what are they missing by not using a source > control system, and subversion is a good start. It is possible to migrate archives from subversion to other systems, so working with subversion for now isn't a dead end if you change your mind later. It sounds like it isn't too hard to do: http://mjtsai.com/blog/2007/07/15/subversion-to-git/ That article seems to give a pretty good comparison of svn with git from someone who used svn extensively and discovered that he really liked git. For me the speed issue isn't important because I'm not doing huge projects with dozens of developers, and git seems to focus a lot on speed. I would be more concerned about usability and about whether a newly-hired programmer would likely know the system. If more people know subversion, it might still be better for me than git. According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion_(software) Subversion is well-known in the open source community and is used on many open source projects, including Apache Software Foundation, KDE, GNOME, Free Pascal, FreeBSD, GCC, Python, Django, Ruby, Mono, SourceForge.net and Tigris.org. Google Code also provides Subversion hosting for their open source projects. BountySource systems use it exclusively. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) Several high-profile software projects now use Git for revision control, most notably the Linux kernel, Perl, Samba, X.org Server, Qt (toolkit), One Laptop per Child (OLPC) core development, Ruby on Rails web framework, VLC, Merb, Wine, SWI Prolog, DragonFly BSD and the Android mobile platform. Mike From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sun Jan 18 16:34:12 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:34:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <20090118201232.GR19750@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: I've been reading a little more about revision control. It seems pretty clear that the major holy war of the day is between Mercurial (a.k.a., hg) and Git. Subversion is another good one but is seen as being from an earlier generation. This is should not reflect negatively on Adam's talk, which I will definitley enjoy greatly, because all of the fundamental code-management issues have to be discussed and those issues apply to all revision control programs. Every article or blog post on revision control software that allows comments is followed by a little battle back-and-forth between git and hg adherents. I guess we should call it a tie. This article makes the git system sound a little more appealing to me as a lover of the GNU/Linux/UNIX command line: http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/git-vs-mercurial/ But the things I'm seeing make all of these programs sound kinda hard to use. I'm looking forward to Adam's talk because I know he'll help me to understand all of the issues a lot better. Mike From drue at therub.org Sun Jan 18 17:11:17 2009 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:11:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <20090118201232.GR19750@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20090118231117.GB81027@therub.org> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 02:47:32PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote: > That article seems to give a pretty good comparison of svn with git from > someone who used svn extensively and discovered that he really liked git. Here's my entirely biased, subjective and generalized perspective of version control: CVS: "previous generation" version control. I started with this, and it worked great. Probably only used for legacy reasons at this point. I'd be surprised if it was used much for new projects. SVN: "current generation". written as a replacement for CVS, solving some of CVS's largest warts. Currently probably has the highest usage of the versioning softwares, and probably will for some time. Distributed (Mercurial, Git): "next generation". The web 2.0 of revision control - more dynamic, faster, etc. Is SVN a worthy topic of discussion? Sure, but it'd be a disservice to not mention distributed version control. Also, you'll get a different turnout (more noobs (i use this term affectionately), few veterans), probably. Dan From haircut at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 17:32:00 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:32:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tue Jan 20, 6:30 - 8:00 pm In-Reply-To: <497394E4.80505@jfoo.org> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <1232308093.26431.4.camel@localhost> <497394E4.80505@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <1232321520.17903.88.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 14:45 -0600, John Gateley wrote: > It was SVN 1.5 where the change occurred, and it's covered > here: > > http://subversion.tigris.org/svn_1.5_releasenotes.html#merge-tracking > > If I understand right, it's marking changes with a distinct ID > (probably a GUID) instead of a change number, allowing finer > control of merging. Ah, merge tracking! Yes, I will cover this. I find merge tracking crucial to successful branch management. -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090118/cfb2d6ae/attachment.pgp From haircut at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 19:27:24 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:27:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tue Jan 20, 6:30 - 8:00 pm In-Reply-To: <20090118231117.GB81027@therub.org> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <20090118201232.GR19750@iris.iucha.org> <20090118231117.GB81027@therub.org> Message-ID: <1232328444.17903.186.camel@localhost> Great discussion! I don't know much about version control systems besides the ones I've used a bunch (RCS, CVS, SVN), but I'm familiar with some the major conceptual differences between these and the "next generation" version control systems, and I have earmarks in my talk to bring these up from time to time. I'll certainly welcome audience interaction, as always. I want to underscore that Subversion is just the vector for concept delivery. I've no emotional ties to Subversion. Also, this mailing list is definitely a great forum for "which tool is best" and "which tool does what" types of discussions. On a personal note, my motivation for giving this talk is that I feel like I will eventually migrate to a distributed version control system--perhaps git--and I want to give this talk before that happens. :) -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090118/5d4a48be/attachment-0001.pgp From haircut at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 19:31:17 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:31:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] mining google trends to compare version control system popularity Message-ID: <1232328677.17903.188.camel@localhost> Anyone know how to effectively mine Google trends to compare version control system popularity? I tried playing around with it, but it seems like terms that are also normal English words might be confusing the results. For example: "git", "bazaar"... http://tinyurl.com/82l9kc -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090118/ceee3565/attachment.pgp From tclug at jfoo.org Sun Jan 18 21:32:05 2009 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:32:05 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <20090118201232.GR19750@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4973F435.902@jfoo.org> Mike Miller wrote: > I've been reading a little more about revision control. It seems pretty > clear that the major holy war of the day is between Mercurial (a.k.a., hg) > and Git. The one with the better GUI is the winner, of course. j (ducking and covering...) From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sun Jan 18 22:32:36 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:32:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] mining google trends to compare version control system popularity In-Reply-To: <1232328677.17903.188.camel@localhost> References: <1232328677.17903.188.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jan 2009, Adam Monsen wrote: > Anyone know how to effectively mine Google trends to compare version > control system popularity? > > I tried playing around with it, but it seems like terms that are also > normal English words might be confusing the results. For example: "git", > "bazaar"... > > http://tinyurl.com/82l9kc These aren't trends because they are searches done right now, but the idea here is to look at how often people write about migrating or converting or transitioning or changing from one system *to* another (thus the word "to" in the searches). People will also write about comparing one system to another, so we need to remember that these aren't all what we think they are. Here are some results from Google searches 52,200 for "(svn OR subversion) to git" 1,700 for "git to (svn OR subversion)" 113,000 for "(svn OR subversion) to (hg OR mercurial)" 1,070 for "(hg OR mercurial) to (svn OR subversion)" 312 for "git to (hg OR mercurial)" 2,850 for "(hg OR mercurial) to git" So it looks like more people might have written about transitioning from svn to hg than svn to git. But it also looks like more people are writing about transitioning from hg to git than from git to hg. Here's my interpretation: Hg came out before git by about 8 months during which time people probably started getting interested in Mercurial: git 1.0 release on December 21, 2005 Mercurial first release on April 19, 2005 Then git came out, but a lot of people were saying it looked like hit had a bright future but it was hard to understand it and the docs were bad. But then git kept on improving so that now more hg users are thinking about transitioning to git than the other way around. Anyway, those are my guesses. Mike From tclug at lizakowski.com Mon Jan 19 10:08:47 2009 From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:08:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: <200901182216.55398.Jeremy@lizakowski.com> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <200901182216.55398.Jeremy@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <200901191008.47527.tclug@lizakowski.com> I'm leaning toward Mercurial. ?It seems simpler than git, and has comparable performance. The only problem (with both mercurial and git) is authentication. With svn, I have passwords set up for each person. ?But with distributed systems, there is no central server, and code exchanges can happen ad-hoc, so there is no way to identify who is submitting code. ?User identity is set via a text field in the local config file. ? Even if you identify who is logging into your servers, their push might include code they picked up from other people along the way (one of the main features of DVCS). I'm thinking they need (as an optional mode) gpg signatures on all commits, and the option to reject incoming patches that lack signatures. ? They do have an extesnion for hg to let you sign a repo, but it makes a commit just for the sig (so you would have 2x the number of commits), and you would have to implement a lot of the above using pre/post commit hooks wired up to gpg. ?I might try to do that. Jeremy On Sunday 18 January 2009 4:34:12 pm Mike Miller wrote: > I've been reading a little more about revision control. ?It seems pretty > clear that the major holy war of the day is between Mercurial (a.k.a., hg) > and Git. ?Subversion is another good one but is seen as being from an > earlier generation. ?This is should not reflect negatively on Adam's talk, > which I will definitley enjoy greatly, because all of the fundamental > code-management issues have to be discussed and those issues apply to all > revision control programs. > > Every article or blog post on revision control software that allows > comments is followed by a little battle back-and-forth between git and hg > adherents. ?I guess we should call it a tie. ?This article makes the git > system sound a little more appealing to me as a lover of the > GNU/Linux/UNIX command line: > > http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/git-vs-mercurial/ > > But the things I'm seeing make all of these pr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090119/aeda6d10/attachment.htm From florin at iucha.net Mon Jan 19 10:59:59 2009 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:59:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: <200901191008.47527.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <200901182216.55398.Jeremy@lizakowski.com> <200901191008.47527.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <20090119165959.GT19750@iris.iucha.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:08:47AM -0600, Jeremy wrote: > The only problem (with both mercurial and git) is authentication. With svn, I > have passwords set up for each person. ?But with distributed systems, there is > no central server, and code exchanges can happen ad-hoc, so there is no way to > identify who is submitting code. ?User identity is set via a text field in the > local config file. ? > > Even if you identify who is logging into your servers, their push might > include code they picked up from other people along the way (one of the main > features of DVCS). > > I'm thinking they need (as an optional mode) gpg signatures on all commits, > and the option to reject incoming patches that lack signatures. ? With both git and mercurial you can sign tags. > They do have an extesnion for hg to let you sign a repo, but it makes a commit > just for the sig (so you would have 2x the number of commits), and you would > have to implement a lot of the above using pre/post commit hooks wired up to > gpg. ?I might try to do that. I'm not privy with the design decisions of either DVCS, but I presume that they encourage a large number of small commits, followed by a tag (like a release; the release can be of your feature into the main code stream, not something end-user visible). Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090119/2b7765f0/attachment.pgp From swaite at sbn-services.com Mon Jan 19 15:24:42 2009 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (swaite at sbn-services.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:24:42 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted Message-ID: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> I was wondering if anyone here in the Twin Cities would happen to have a Tivo unit for sale that is either already hacked, or easily hackable (i.e. no S2 model with PROM). I have a use for a DVP that will simply just do that, play video files in either Tivo or Xvid, to which I can copy from a laptop to play on a TV. I want to get a Tivo unit because they are small, quiet, cheap, and all I need (hence why I am not going to build some MythTV unit). From sloncho at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 15:40:59 2009 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:40:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted In-Reply-To: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> References: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:24 PM, wrote: > I was wondering if anyone here in the Twin Cities would happen to have > a Tivo unit for sale that is either already hacked, or easily hackable > (i.e. no S2 model with PROM). I have a use for a DVP that will simply > just do that, play video files in either Tivo or Xvid, to which I can > copy from a laptop to play on a TV. I want to get a Tivo unit because > they are small, quiet, cheap, and all I need (hence why I am not going > to build some MythTV unit). > I do not know how "cheap" are TiVos, but if it is in the 200$ price range, check popcornhour A100: http://www.popcornhour.com/ I have the unit, and it plays almost everything I throw at it. You can add HDD to it for local storage (SMB and NFS servers build in), or it has SMB client to play from a local share. Cheers -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. From erikerik at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 16:00:05 2009 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:00:05 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Sunny wrote: > > I do not know how "cheap" are TiVos, but if it is in the 200$ price > range, check popcornhour A100: > > http://www.popcornhour.com/ > > I have the unit, and it plays almost everything I throw at it. You can > add HDD to it for local storage (SMB and NFS servers build in), or it > has SMB client to play from a local share. I've been looking at those recently. Is it able to play video off of Hulu, ABC, NBC, etc? Thanks! -Erik From sloncho at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 16:15:01 2009 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:15:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Erik Anderson wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Sunny wrote: >> >> I do not know how "cheap" are TiVos, but if it is in the 200$ price >> range, check popcornhour A100: >> >> http://www.popcornhour.com/ >> >> I have the unit, and it plays almost everything I throw at it. You can >> add HDD to it for local storage (SMB and NFS servers build in), or it >> has SMB client to play from a local share. > > I've been looking at those recently. Is it able to play video off of > Hulu, ABC, NBC, etc? > It depends. It can play flash, but it has no integrated browser (i.e. it has some "internal" one, which works with some specially crafted pages to access services). For sure it works with youtube, and there are a lot of other podcasts/services added. Here is a link with not very updated list: http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=24 Also, it works with this community site for such a services: http://www.mspsite.com/ I.e. there is an SDK, so one can build his own channels. As what is provided by these service sites are some specially crafted HTML pages, and the device allows to add custom services, one can easily prepare something like that, and host it locally. (I haven't done it yet). Cheers -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Mon Jan 19 16:33:45 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:33:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jan 2009, Sunny wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:24 PM, wrote: > >> I was wondering if anyone here in the Twin Cities would happen to have >> a Tivo unit for sale that is either already hacked, or easily hackable >> (i.e. no S2 model with PROM). I have a use for a DVP that will simply >> just do that, play video files in either Tivo or Xvid, to which I can >> copy from a laptop to play on a TV. I want to get a Tivo unit because >> they are small, quiet, cheap, and all I need (hence why I am not going >> to build some MythTV unit). > > I do not know how "cheap" are TiVos, but if it is in the 200$ price > range, check popcornhour A100: > > http://www.popcornhour.com/ > > I have the unit, and it plays almost everything I throw at it. You can > add HDD to it for local storage (SMB and NFS servers build in), or it > has SMB client to play from a local share. I wonder if anyone is selling something like this for DirecTiVo (TiVo for DirecTV). Any idea? Mike From srcfoo at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 18:11:39 2009 From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:11:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] subversion In-Reply-To: <200901191008.47527.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <200901182216.55398.Jeremy@lizakowski.com> <200901191008.47527.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <579c6fd30901191611m3b784524u8f4eae159f3f4758@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Jeremy wrote: > I'm leaning toward Mercurial. It seems simpler than git, and has comparable > > performance. Me too. Working on moving our company away from SVN right now. Branching was a killer for us and the SVN method of branching just was not as easy or as attractive as mercurial. > The only problem (with both mercurial and git) is authentication. With svn, > I have passwords set up for each person. But with distributed systems, there > is > no central server, and code exchanges can happen ad-hoc, so there is no way > to identify who is submitting code. User identity is set via a text field in > the local config file. This is more of an implementation issue and I don't think you should be relying on your version control system to ensure the proper code is getting submitted. My $0.02, skip subversion and go straight to either git or mercurial. If you have developers/users who need a decent GUI client then I'd go with mercurial and install TortoiseHG. Adam, I think it's great your introducing people to version control and as one or more people have mentioned they can always use import tools to move on. Mercurial in my experience has more similar commands to SVN than git and is therefore IMO a little easier to transition to. Either way glad to see people are still meeting. Nice work, Jeremy! From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Tue Jan 20 14:31:26 2009 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:31:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Q&A @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 24, 2009 Message-ID: <4976349E.4080709@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday January 24th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00 to 12:00. (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) We will have a Open Q&A session this month at the Penguins Unbound Meeting. It has been asked for a Python Quick Start/Intro, so if you know Python and would be willing to show up and give a quick introduction that would be great! Also bring your Idea's for topics in the coming year. Thanks, hope to see you there! ==>brian. From mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 02:35:02 2009 From: mad.marvin.moonshadow at gmail.com (Mad Marvin Moonshadow) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:35:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux Message-ID: I'm looking for a PCI WiFi card that will work with Linux. Any one have any sugestions of what card to get? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090121/c011fb64/attachment.htm From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jan 21 04:16:48 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:16:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a like-new Proxim Orinoco Gold PCI card model 8492-WD that has its own external antenna on about 5 ft cable. This is supposedly the best. Linux drivers are available for this card, but I never used them. $20 with CD for Windows drivers. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mad Marvin Moonshadow Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:35 AM To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux I'm looking for a PCI WiFi card that will work with Linux. Any one have any sugestions of what card to get? From haircut at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 08:45:24 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:45:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Meeting Announcement: Tue Jan 20, 6:30 - 8:00 pm In-Reply-To: <1232321520.17903.88.camel@localhost> References: <20071002185636.GO8174@iucha.net> <20071010200412.GE7854@iucha.net> <200710101511.21123.tclug@lizakowski.com> <200901171420.36564.tclug@lizakowski.com> <9ebd65110901180635t7e140d36i1f89f372db9d95ac@mail.gmail.com> <49735875.9020806@jfoo.org> <1232308093.26431.4.camel@localhost> <497394E4.80505@jfoo.org> <1232321520.17903.88.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1232549124.7138.33.camel@localhost> Thanks to everyone who attended last night! Initial feedback was positive, and I certainly enjoyed giving the talk. It was a small audience, so we were able to really talk through everything and get hands-on. Everyone in the audience was very involved. As always, the facilities at the U of M were superb. Thanks, Gophers! I didn't have any illustrations, just bunches of scripted examples. Slides and examples are available at http://adammonsen.com/talks . -- Adam Monsen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090121/521257ed/attachment.pgp From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Jan 21 09:02:25 2009 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:02:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <717055473.5358121232550145325.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I personally have two USB antennas. With USB antennas you can always use it in another computer if needed. Wi-Fire http://www.hfield.com/ Edimax EW-7318USg (NewEgg sells them) http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=8&pl1_id=1&pl2_id=44 The Wi-Fire works great for long distance signals. The Edimax has a removable antenna and I plan to play with a bi-quad antenna to see if I can get better range than the Wi-Fire. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mad Marvin Moonshadow" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:35:02 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux I'm looking for a PCI WiFi card that will work with Linux. Any one have any sugestions of what card to get? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jan 21 11:46:23 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:46:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux In-Reply-To: <717055473.5358121232550145325.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:02 AM > To: Mad Marvin Moonshadow > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux > > > I personally have two USB antennas. > With USB antennas you can always use it in another computer if needed. > > Wi-Fire > http://www.hfield.com/ > > Edimax EW-7318USg (NewEgg sells them) > http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=8&pl1_id=1&pl2_id=44 > > The Wi-Fire works great for long distance signals. > The Edimax has a removable antenna and I plan to play with a bi-quad antenna to see if I can get better range than the Wi-Fire. These are NOT just antennas. Takes more to tango. Plugging an antenna into a USB port is not going to do anything useful for or with WiFi. Chuck > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mad Marvin Moonshadow" > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:35:02 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux > > > I'm looking for a PCI WiFi card that will work with Linux. Any one have any sugestions of what card to get? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.10/1906 - Release Date: 1/21/2009 7:07 AM > From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Jan 21 12:31:43 2009 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:31:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <330940033.5425691232562703222.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Oops! Bad choice of words there. What in the heck was I thinking.... Amended statement: I have two USB Wi-Fi adapters. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Cole" To: auditodd at comcast.net, "Mad Marvin Moonshadow" Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:46:23 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: RE: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:02 AM > To: Mad Marvin Moonshadow > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux > > > I personally have two USB antennas. > With USB antennas you can always use it in another computer if needed. > > Wi-Fire > http://www.hfield.com/ > > Edimax EW-7318USg (NewEgg sells them) > http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=8&pl1_id=1&pl2_id=44 > > The Wi-Fire works great for long distance signals. > The Edimax has a removable antenna and I plan to play with a bi-quad antenna to see if I can get better range than the Wi-Fire. These are NOT just antennas. Takes more to tango. Plugging an antenna into a USB port is not going to do anything useful for or with WiFi. Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mad Marvin Moonshadow" > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:35:02 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux > > > I'm looking for a PCI WiFi card that will work with Linux. Any one have any sugestions of what card to get? > From blawrence at qwest.net Wed Jan 21 13:42:16 2009 From: blawrence at qwest.net (Brian Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:42:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux VTL Message-ID: Does anyone know if there is an open source Linux VTL that will work with Openfiler or FreeNAS? I've seen http://sourceforge.net/projects/mhvtl but this project doesn't appear to be active. I've searched Google but found very little on the topic. Thanks, Brian Lawrence From j at packetgod.com Wed Jan 21 13:42:15 2009 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:42:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux In-Reply-To: <330940033.5425691232562703222.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <330940033.5425691232562703222.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0901211142n7632439eje80694c0096b96cc@mail.gmail.com> Geez, that wi-fire is so big I can see why you would make that mistake, that thing is not subtle at all! This is my choice for l33t h4xoring on my linux systems: http://www.ubnt.com/products/src.php Solid, great drivers, works in Backtrack, great range, external antenna connector so you can choose your weapon and hack away. With permission of course. If you want USB this 500mW monster will let you break into their networks from your car (assuming you have gotten the proper authorization to). http://www.data-alliance.net/servlet/the-90/Alfa-500mW-USB-Wireless/Detail I love it because I can have my VMs link to it and use it as opposed to just my host OS. Makes it a bit easier. It has full linux support, external antenna connector, and is USB. But it is only b/g and not a/b/g (important for true wireless analysis and hacking). Of course those are probably way over the top for everyday use but for penetration testing they rock. But they do come in handy when trying to get weak signal for sure. --j On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:31 PM, wrote: > Oops! > Bad choice of words there. > What in the heck was I thinking.... > > Amended statement: > I have two USB Wi-Fi adapters. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Cole" > To: auditodd at comcast.net, "Mad Marvin Moonshadow" > Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:46:23 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net >> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: Mad Marvin Moonshadow >> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux >> >> >> I personally have two USB antennas. >> With USB antennas you can always use it in another computer if needed. >> >> Wi-Fire >> http://www.hfield.com/ >> >> Edimax EW-7318USg (NewEgg sells them) >> http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_detail.php?pd_id=8&pl1_id=1&pl2_id=44 >> >> The Wi-Fire works great for long distance signals. >> The Edimax has a removable antenna and I plan to play with a bi-quad antenna to see if I can get better range than the Wi-Fire. > > These are NOT just antennas. Takes more to tango. > > Plugging an antenna into a USB port is not going to do anything useful for or with WiFi. > > Chuck > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mad Marvin Moonshadow" >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:35:02 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >> Subject: [tclug-list] WiFi Card for Linux >> >> >> I'm looking for a PCI WiFi card that will work with Linux. Any one have any sugestions of what card to get? > >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From danyberg at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 04:59:50 2009 From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:59:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources Message-ID: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> I've been finding most of my cheapest hardware sources on www.pricewatch.combut I'd be interested in other recommendations. More specifically, He's looking to build a Windows XP gaming (I know, but the game (RFonline) won't run under linux, I've tried) box for around $150 (Just MB/CPU/Ram). And I'm supposed to find the best deal. I am asking here because I'd like to make the machine dual boot Fedora for him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090122/511fea36/attachment.htm From admin at lctn.org Thu Jan 22 07:17:58 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:17:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent Message-ID: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> I'm running into the "Arguments too long" error when attempting to scp 16000+ flash files to a server. A couple solutions I found mentioned shortening the file list, or modifying binfmts.h. I don't want to do either. Is there another easy way to get the files copied over? I'm moving the files from a usb drive on Ubuntu to a Freenas box. From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Thu Jan 22 07:46:00 2009 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:46:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> Message-ID: <1232631960.17211.1296161175@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:17:58 -0600, "Raymond Norton" said: > I'm running into the "Arguments too long" error when attempting to scp > 16000+ flash files to a server. Using xargs with string replacement should work: find /location -name "*.fla" -print | xargs -IXXX scp XXX id at host:/path From florin at iucha.net Thu Jan 22 08:10:04 2009 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:10:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> Message-ID: <20090122141004.GG19750@iris.iucha.org> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 07:17:58AM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: > I'm running into the "Arguments too long" error when attempting to scp > 16000+ flash files to a server. A couple solutions I found mentioned > shortening the file list, or modifying binfmts.h. > > I don't want to do either. Is there another easy way to get the files > copied over? How about moving the files locally to a folder, then transferring the folder over with "scp -r"? florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090122/84029345/attachment.pgp From admin at lctn.org Thu Jan 22 08:22:21 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:22:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> Message-ID: <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> > tar cf - . | ssh @ "cd ; tar xf -" This is working fine. I added -v so I could watch the progress. Does rsync copy faster? From tclug at beitsahour.net Thu Jan 22 07:59:58 2009 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:59:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <1232631960.17211.1296161175@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <1232631960.17211.1296161175@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 07:17, Raymond Norton wrote: > I'm running into the "Arguments too long" error when attempting to scp > 16000+ flash files to a server. A couple solutions I found mentioned > shortening the file list, or modifying binfmts.h. > > I don't want to do either. Is there another easy way to get the files > copied over? > > I'm moving the files from a usb drive on Ubuntu to a Freenas box. rsync over ssh, provided you have rsync on both boxes: rsync -av -e ssh @ you can also do tar over ssh, which can be faster on reliable networks but is not interruptable: cd tar cf - . | ssh @ "cd ; tar xf -" From josh at tcbug.org Thu Jan 22 08:27:06 2009 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:27:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <20090122141004.GG19750@iris.iucha.org> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <20090122141004.GG19750@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4978823A.1040700@tcbug.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 07:17:58AM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: >> I'm running into the "Arguments too long" error when attempting to scp >> 16000+ flash files to a server. A couple solutions I found mentioned >> shortening the file list, or modifying binfmts.h. >> >> I don't want to do either. Is there another easy way to get the files >> copied over? > > How about moving the files locally to a folder, then transferring the > folder over with "scp -r"? > > florin > Another possible solution would be to use rsync...you'd need it installed on both sides. rsync -avzP -e "ssh -i /your/privatekey" /somedir user at host:/remotedir If you go this route you'll want to read up on the rules for trailing slashes in paths. rsync behaves differently with /somedir vs. /somedir/ - -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel PGP: 8A48 EF36 5E9F 4EDA 5ABC 11B4 26F9 01F1 27AF AECB -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkl4gjkACgkQJvkB8SevrstyHgCfdKZVqQlMe5uuCZRSnQKSaBxB WL0AoI1qrxfN876wJjMk9Thl7MISJb0B =o8mh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ecrist at secure-computing.net Thu Jan 22 08:18:54 2009 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:18:54 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> Message-ID: <2A434AC7-31D0-4D41-AE8F-742E46FEA9A2@secure-computing.net> On Jan 22, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I'm running into the "Arguments too long" error when attempting to scp > 16000+ flash files to a server. A couple solutions I found mentioned > shortening the file list, or modifying binfmts.h. > > I don't want to do either. Is there another easy way to get the files > copied over? > > I'm moving the files from a usb drive on Ubuntu to a Freenas box. How about using rsync? --- Eric Crist From ecrist at secure-computing.net Thu Jan 22 08:33:48 2009 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:33:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> Message-ID: <839B0AB2-57B9-43FF-A44C-091DA685583F@secure-computing.net> On Jan 22, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Raymond Norton wrote: >> tar cf - . | ssh @ "cd ; tar >> xf -" > > This is working fine. I added -v so I could watch the progress. > > Does rsync copy faster? Not any faster, as it uses ssh just the same, but it does allow you to pick up where you left off if something fails, such as losing a network connection. --- Eric Crist From drue at therub.org Thu Jan 22 08:39:39 2009 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:39:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <1232631960.17211.1296161175@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <1232631960.17211.1296161175@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20090122143939.GA7427@therub.org> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 07:46:00AM -0600, Isaac Atilano wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:17:58 -0600, "Raymond Norton" > said: > > I'm running into the "Arguments too long" error when attempting to scp > > 16000+ flash files to a server. > > Using xargs with string replacement should work: > > find /location -name "*.fla" -print | xargs -IXXX scp XXX id at host:/path Don't forget about -print0 on find and xargs -0. It will safely handle special characters and spaces in filenames. find /location -name "*.fla" -print0 | xargs -0 -IXXX scp XXX id at host:/path Additionally, there are two methods I've used in the past, depending on needs. One problem with the scp method is it may take a long time. If time is an issue, consider using tar inline like this: tar cvzf - *.fla | ssh id at host "cd /location && cat | tar xvzf -" This will bundle (and zip) all of your files before transferring, and then untar and unzip on the other side. The transfer will go faster since it's one large file instead of many small files, but it won't create or leave huge tar files laying around on your file system. Keep in mind that you may also enable compression on the ssh/scp routine. I usually have compression set in my .ssh/config file: host * Compression yes You can get clever and only specify it for non-local hosts, but I have done some testing in the past and found that it's a decent default for local hosts, too. One last thing I will mention is scp -r and rsync. You could have used 'scp -r dirname id at host:/path' to avoid globbing the filenames on the command line as well. Additionally, you can use rsync to do the initial transfer, and to keep the remote directory in sync with your local copy. Say you copy over your 16k files and then you change 100 of them. You can use rsync to automatically copy over the 100 that changed, leaving the other 15,900 untouched. You could even run it periodically on cron, and only the changed files would ever be copied. Cheers, drue From drue at therub.org Thu Jan 22 08:43:10 2009 From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:43:10 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090122144310.GA7862@therub.org> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 04:59:50AM -0600, swede wrote: > I've been finding most of my cheapest hardware sources on > [1]www.pricewatch.com but I'd be interested in other recommendations. > > More specifically, He's looking to build a Windows XP gaming (I know, but > the game (RFonline) won't run under linux, I've tried) box for around $150 > (Just MB/CPU/Ram). And I'm supposed to find the best deal. > > I am asking here because I'd like to make the machine dual boot Fedora for > him. I would consider finding something used (craigslist?). Be careful if the new hardware is too cheap, you don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish. Otherwise, newegg.com has excellent prices on most everything, I rarely price compare now days. I'm sure I could save a couple dollars shopping around, but I would rather use a legitimate company with good prices that I trust. You may also try ebay, but again, it's riskier. drue From j at packetgod.com Thu Jan 22 09:19:52 2009 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: <20090122144310.GA7862@therub.org> References: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> <20090122144310.GA7862@therub.org> Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0901220719t48f2bf95o48ba2abbf258aae8@mail.gmail.com> If you want to be really risky look on Craigslist, people are always dumping gaming rigs on there. You just need to make sure to offer less than they are asking and verify the hardware before swapping over the cash. --j On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Dan Rue wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 04:59:50AM -0600, swede wrote: >> I've been finding most of my cheapest hardware sources on >> [1]www.pricewatch.com but I'd be interested in other recommendations. >> >> More specifically, He's looking to build a Windows XP gaming (I know, but >> the game (RFonline) won't run under linux, I've tried) box for around $150 >> (Just MB/CPU/Ram). And I'm supposed to find the best deal. >> >> I am asking here because I'd like to make the machine dual boot Fedora for >> him. > > I would consider finding something used (craigslist?). Be careful if > the new hardware is too cheap, you don't want to be penny wise and pound > foolish. > > Otherwise, newegg.com has excellent prices on most everything, I rarely > price compare now days. I'm sure I could save a couple dollars shopping > around, but I would rather use a legitimate company with good prices > that I trust. > > You may also try ebay, but again, it's riskier. > > drue > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nmarkon at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 09:22:06 2009 From: nmarkon at gmail.com (Noah Markon) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:22:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: <20090122144310.GA7862@therub.org> References: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> <20090122144310.GA7862@therub.org> Message-ID: > I would consider finding something used (craigslist?). Be careful if > the new hardware is too cheap, you don't want to be penny wise and pound > foolish. > > Otherwise, newegg.com has excellent prices on most everything, I rarely > price compare now days. I'm sure I could save a couple dollars shopping > around, but I would rather use a legitimate company with good prices > that I trust. Newegg is good i order from them all the time, and maybe even ZIPZOOMFLY.com, however I haven't order from them in awhile. Also Microcenter can have some good deals on refurbished PCs. From tclug at beitsahour.net Thu Jan 22 09:18:09 2009 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:18:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:22, Raymond Norton wrote: >> tar cf - . | ssh @ "cd ; tar xf -" > > This is working fine. I added -v so I could watch the progress. > > Does rsync copy faster? no, rsync has to compare each file on both ends which saps time. tar over nc is probably faster still than tar / ssh, dispensing with compression and encryption and using UDP instead can get you another 10%* perhaps. *one of these days i need to run some tests to get a more scientific answer. From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com Thu Jan 22 09:28:18 2009 From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:28:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0901220719t48f2bf95o48ba2abbf258aae8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There is also a local used equipment auction site called minitbid (http://www.minitbid.com/) that has good deals. They usually have one or two auctions a month that last 3-4 days each. Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of J Cruit > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:20 AM > To: TCLUG List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hardware sources > > If you want to be really risky look on Craigslist, people are always > dumping gaming rigs on there. You just need to make sure to offer > less than they are asking and verify the hardware before swapping over > the cash. > > --j > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Dan Rue wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 04:59:50AM -0600, swede wrote: > >> I've been finding most of my cheapest hardware sources on > >> [1]www.pricewatch.com but I'd be interested in other > recommendations. > >> > >> More specifically, He's looking to build a Windows XP gaming (I > know, but > >> the game (RFonline) won't run under linux, I've tried) box for > around $150 > >> (Just MB/CPU/Ram). And I'm supposed to find the best deal. > >> > >> I am asking here because I'd like to make the machine dual boot > Fedora for > >> him. > > > > I would consider finding something used (craigslist?). Be careful if > > the new hardware is too cheap, you don't want to be penny wise and pound > > foolish. > > > > Otherwise, newegg.com has excellent prices on most everything, I rarely > > price compare now days. I'm sure I could save a couple dollars shopping > > around, but I would rather use a legitimate company with good prices > > that I trust. > > > > You may also try ebay, but again, it's riskier. > > > > drue > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From j at packetgod.com Thu Jan 22 10:02:00 2009 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:02:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0901220802h8ff3d2asd4b9be802845789b@mail.gmail.com> rsync is reliable though, if you do tar over nc I'd make sure to check some hashes to make sure nothing got lost in the shuffle. If its local you could actually do rsync without ssh, that is one of the fastest ways I have found to copy files over. But if you are new to rsync test out your commands on dummy directories first and be wary of the fact that depending on switches can delete files as well. I mistyped an empty directory and almost wiped out a bunch of files but luckily had set it just to demo and not actually do. --j On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:22, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> tar cf - . | ssh @ "cd ; tar xf -" >> >> This is working fine. I added -v so I could watch the progress. >> >> Does rsync copy faster? > > no, rsync has to compare each file on both ends which saps time. > > tar over nc is probably faster still than tar / ssh, dispensing with > compression and encryption and using UDP instead can get you another > 10%* perhaps. > > *one of these days i need to run some tests to get a more scientific answer. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From strayf at freeshell.org Thu Jan 22 10:44:27 2009 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:44:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: References: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> <20090122144310.GA7862@therub.org> Message-ID: <4978A26B.1020404@freeshell.org> Noah Markon wrote: >> I would consider finding something used (craigslist?). Be careful if >> the new hardware is too cheap, you don't want to be penny wise and pound >> foolish. >> >> Otherwise, newegg.com has excellent prices on most everything, I rarely >> price compare now days. I'm sure I could save a couple dollars shopping >> around, but I would rather use a legitimate company with good prices >> that I trust. > > > Newegg is good i order from them all the time, and maybe even > ZIPZOOMFLY.com, however I haven't order from them in awhile. > > Also Microcenter can have some good deals on refurbished PCs. > I've bought a lot from tigerdirect.com, but lately newegg seems a bit better. -Steve From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Jan 22 12:19:25 2009 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:19:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <213870251.107561232648365011.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> That used to be the Smith-Micro auction site. They must have either changed the name, or branched off the auction to another company. I've bought some items from there. They aren't always in perfect shape, but if you are careful on your bidding you can get a good deal. Todd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry R. Pint" To: "TCLUG List" Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:28:18 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hardware sources There is also a local used equipment auction site called minitbid (http://www.minitbid.com/) that has good deals. They usually have one or two auctions a month that last 3-4 days each. Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn- > linux.org] On Behalf Of J Cruit > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:20 AM > To: TCLUG List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hardware sources > > If you want to be really risky look on Craigslist, people are always > dumping gaming rigs on there. You just need to make sure to offer > less than they are asking and verify the hardware before swapping over > the cash. > > --j > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Dan Rue wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 04:59:50AM -0600, swede wrote: > >> I've been finding most of my cheapest hardware sources on > >> [1]www.pricewatch.com but I'd be interested in other > recommendations. > >> > >> More specifically, He's looking to build a Windows XP gaming (I > know, but > >> the game (RFonline) won't run under linux, I've tried) box for > around $150 > >> (Just MB/CPU/Ram). And I'm supposed to find the best deal. > >> > >> I am asking here because I'd like to make the machine dual boot > Fedora for > >> him. > > > > I would consider finding something used (craigslist?). Be careful if > > the new hardware is too cheap, you don't want to be penny wise and pound > > foolish. > > > > Otherwise, newegg.com has excellent prices on most everything, I rarely > > price compare now days. I'm sure I could save a couple dollars shopping > > around, but I would rather use a legitimate company with good prices > > that I trust. > > > > You may also try ebay, but again, it's riskier. > > > > drue From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Jan 22 12:30:33 2009 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:30:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <712594242.110751232649033416.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I'll second the recommendation for NewEgg.com. Look for the combo deals. You can usually pick up a motherboard and processor deal for under $100. Then all you need is RAM which is getting surprisingly cheap lately. Todd ----- Original Message ----- From: "swede" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:59:50 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources I've been finding most of my cheapest hardware sources on www.pricewatch.com but I'd be interested in other recommendations. More specifically, He's looking to build a Windows XP gaming (I know, but the game (RFonline) won't run under linux, I've tried) box for around $150 (Just MB/CPU/Ram). And I'm supposed to find the best deal. I am asking here because I'd like to make the machine dual boot Fedora for him. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 12:54:43 2009 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:54:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> Message-ID: <67f3084a0901221054m86c0b94xdfdfb5ddf2e6ecf9@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/09, Munir Nassar wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 08:22, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> tar cf - . | ssh @ "cd ; tar xf -" >> >> This is working fine. I added -v so I could watch the progress. >> >> Does rsync copy faster? > > no, rsync has to compare each file on both ends which saps time. > > tar over nc is probably faster still than tar / ssh, dispensing with > compression and encryption and using UDP instead can get you another > 10%* perhaps. > > *one of these days i need to run some tests to get a more scientific answer. A little clarification is in order here... While rsync does a comparison, it only copies files that have changed. Tar/rcp/scp/find-cpio/etc will typically copy the entire contents depending upon the parameters specified. If rsync is possible, I would highly recommend using that instead. It will preserve file permissions, ownership, date/time, etc. scp/sftp will not unless you tar the directory's contents up and move the tarball over. While it's true that rsync does chew up time doing the comparison, it's been my experience that rsync (even with the comparison) is most times faster than other methods**. Given the fact that it keeps permissions so that I don't have to reset anything, even faster. Also, if this is going to be an ongoing transfer of files within the directory, much faster in that it only does the files/directories which have changed. ** Said comparison has not been scientifically proven -- -Shawn From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Jan 22 13:01:08 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:01:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: <213870251.107561232648365011.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:19 PM > To: Larry R. Pint > Cc: TCLUG List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hardware sources > > > That used to be the Smith-Micro auction site. > They must have either changed the name, or branched off the auction to another company. > > I've bought some items from there. > They aren't always in perfect shape, but if you are careful on your bidding you can get a good deal. > > Todd > > The company is still Smith Micro, but Minitbid runs the auctions. Maybe it's a different division or a subcontractor, but pickups are at Smith Micro. No further analysis is worth any effort. Chuck > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry R. Pint" > To: "TCLUG List" > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:28:18 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hardware sources > > There is also a local used equipment auction site called minitbid > (http://www.minitbid.com/) that has good deals. They usually have one > or two auctions a month that last 3-4 days each. > > Larry > > From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Thu Jan 22 13:43:30 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:43:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0901221054m86c0b94xdfdfb5ddf2e6ecf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> <67f3084a0901221054m86c0b94xdfdfb5ddf2e6ecf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Shawn Fertch wrote: > A little clarification is in order here... > > While rsync does a comparison, it only copies files that have changed. > Tar/rcp/scp/find-cpio/etc will typically copy the entire contents > depending upon the parameters specified. > > If rsync is possible, I would highly recommend using that instead. It > will preserve file permissions, ownership, date/time, etc. scp/sftp > will not unless you tar the directory's contents up and move the tarball > over. > > While it's true that rsync does chew up time doing the comparison, it's > been my experience that rsync (even with the comparison) is most times > faster than other methods**. Given the fact that it keeps permissions > so that I don't have to reset anything, even faster. Also, if this is > going to be an ongoing transfer of files within the directory, much > faster in that it only does the files/directories which have changed. If every file has to be moved, the comparing would be wasted time, but if files are large and most do not have to be moved, the comparison may massively save time, especially if the network is slow. It happens that I started to write the info below a couple of months ago to share with this list and did not finish it, but I'm finishing it now. My problem was to copy many files from one machine to another, but none of the files existed on the target machine. I really just wanted to make a gzipped tar file (.tgz) and send it to another machine. I didn't have much free disk space on the source machine so I had to do a little work to figure out the tricks. Read on: I want to move files from one GNU/Linux box to another. The disks are nearly full on box with the files currently on it, so I can't write to .tgz on the source machine and send the .tgz file. The data are about 13GB uncompressed and about 3.7GB in .tgz format. This is how I get the latter number: tar zpcf - directory | wc -c That sends the zipped tar to stdout where the bytes are counted by wc. I have about 210,000 files and directories. There are some good suggestions here on how to proceed: http://happygiraffe.net/copy-net I wanted to have the .tgz file on the other side instead of having tar unpackage it automatically, so I find out I could do this on the old machine to send files to the new machine... tar zpcf - directory | ssh user at target.machine "cat > backup.tgz" ...and it packs "directory" from the old machine into the backup.tgz file on the new machine. Nice. One small problem: I didn't have a way to be sure that there were no errors in file transmission. First some things that did not to work: tar zpcf - directory | md5sum Testing that on a small directory gave me, to my surprise, different results every time. What was changing? I didn't get it. I could tell that it was probably caused by gzip because... $ echo "x" | gzip - > test1.gz $ echo "x" | gzip - > test2.gz $ md5sum test?.gz 358cc3d6fe5d929cacd00ae4c2912bf2 test1.gz 601a8e99e56741d5d8bf42250efa7d26 test2.gz So gzip must have a random seed in it, or it is incorporating the timestamp into the file somehow -- something is changing. Then I realized that I just had to use this method of checking md5sums... On the source machine: tar pcf - directory | md5sum Then do this to transfer the data: tar zpcf - directory | ssh user at target.machine "cat > backup.tgz" After transferring, do this on the target machine: gunzip -c backup.tgz | md5sum The two md5sums are created without making new files on either side and they will match if there are no errors. I moved about 30GB of compressed data this way in three large .tgz files and found no errors -- the md5sums always matched. Mike From sfertch at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 16:05:57 2009 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:05:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with scp or equivalent In-Reply-To: References: <49787206.8040807@lctn.org> <4978811D.3040002@lctn.org> <67f3084a0901221054m86c0b94xdfdfb5ddf2e6ecf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <67f3084a0901221405u5eb0ca1cj5d7d6193e6481bf4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > If every file has to be moved, the comparing would be wasted time, but if > files are large and most do not have to be moved, the comparison may > massively save time, especially if the network is slow. > > > It happens that I started to write the info below a couple of months ago > to share with this list and did not finish it, but I'm finishing it now. > My problem was to copy many files from one machine to another, but none of > the files existed on the target machine. I really just wanted to make a > gzipped tar file (.tgz) and send it to another machine. I didn't have > much free disk space on the source machine so I had to do a little work to > figure out the tricks. Read on: > > > I want to move files from one GNU/Linux box to another. The disks are > nearly full on box with the files currently on it, so I can't write to > .tgz on the source machine and send the .tgz file. The data are about > 13GB uncompressed and about 3.7GB in .tgz format. This is how I get the > latter number: > > tar zpcf - directory | wc -c > > That sends the zipped tar to stdout where the bytes are counted by wc. I > have about 210,000 files and directories. > > There are some good suggestions here on how to proceed: > > http://happygiraffe.net/copy-net > > I wanted to have the .tgz file on the other side instead of having tar > unpackage it automatically, so I find out I could do this on the old > machine to send files to the new machine... > > tar zpcf - directory | ssh user at target.machine "cat > backup.tgz" > > ...and it packs "directory" from the old machine into the backup.tgz file > on the new machine. Nice. > > One small problem: I didn't have a way to be sure that there were no > errors in file transmission. First some things that did not to work: > > tar zpcf - directory | md5sum > > Testing that on a small directory gave me, to my surprise, different > results every time. What was changing? I didn't get it. I could tell > that it was probably caused by gzip because... > > $ echo "x" | gzip - > test1.gz > > $ echo "x" | gzip - > test2.gz > > $ md5sum test?.gz > 358cc3d6fe5d929cacd00ae4c2912bf2 test1.gz > 601a8e99e56741d5d8bf42250efa7d26 test2.gz > > So gzip must have a random seed in it, or it is incorporating the > timestamp into the file somehow -- something is changing. Then I realized > that I just had to use this method of checking md5sums... > > On the source machine: > tar pcf - directory | md5sum > > Then do this to transfer the data: > tar zpcf - directory | ssh user at target.machine "cat > backup.tgz" > > After transferring, do this on the target machine: > gunzip -c backup.tgz | md5sum > > The two md5sums are created without making new files on either side and > they will match if there are no errors. I moved about 30GB of compressed > data this way in three large .tgz files and found no errors -- the md5sums > always matched. To me, the file comparison isn't that big of a deal, and I'd only be concerned about the time it took if it was a cronjob scheduled to run in a tight amount of time (say every 10 minutes for a 3GB FS). If it's to populate a new system, it wouldn't bother me. I would say if it's that much of a concern on the initial load, then you haven't given yourself enough time to do the work. Remeber the 6 P's... While I admire the thought you put into your process above. IMO, it's not efficient enough for my tastes. Also, too many chances for errors. Here's how I would have done it: From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com Thu Jan 22 19:40:01 2009 From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:40:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1232674801.31883.42.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have had good luck finding hardware on ebay as well. Usually about 10 / 15 percent off. Quality can vary though. On Thu, 2009-01-22 at 13:01 -0600, Chuck Cole wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:19 PM > > To: Larry R. Pint > > Cc: TCLUG List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hardware sources > > > > > > That used to be the Smith-Micro auction site. > > They must have either changed the name, or branched off the auction to another company. > > > > I've bought some items from there. > > They aren't always in perfect shape, but if you are careful on your bidding you can get a good deal. > > > > Todd > > > > > > The company is still Smith Micro, but Minitbid runs the auctions. Maybe it's a different division or a subcontractor, but pickups > are at Smith Micro. No further analysis is worth any effort. > > > Chuck > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Larry R. Pint" > > To: "TCLUG List" > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:28:18 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hardware sources > > > > There is also a local used equipment auction site called minitbid > > (http://www.minitbid.com/) that has good deals. They usually have one > > or two auctions a month that last 3-4 days each. > > > > Larry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Fri Jan 23 00:59:53 2009 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:59:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ** Tomorrow ** Q&A @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Jan 24, 2009 Message-ID: <49796AE9.4000602@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday January 24th at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00 to 12:00. (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) We will have a Open Q&A session this month at the Penguins Unbound Meeting. It has been asked for a Python Quick Start/Intro, so if you know Python and would be willing to show up and give a quick introduction that would be great! Also bring your Idea's for topics in the coming year. Thanks, hope to see you there! ==>brian. From admin at lctn.org Fri Jan 23 12:47:48 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:47:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with nfs Message-ID: <497A10D4.9090606@lctn.org> I'm setting up a new web site, and am attempting to access data off of the production web site via an nfs mount. The mount point ownership changes to root.root when I mount the nfs. Is there a way to give my web server permissions to access the files and folders? /etc/exports on the server is set up as /mountpoint ipofclient(rw,sync). I can create files in the nfs mount as root. From auditodd at comcast.net Fri Jan 23 13:00:20 2009 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:00:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Inexpensive hardware Message-ID: <1190979562.448981232737220052.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Someone asked about a good place to find inexpensive hardware for a gaming rig... Looking at Passwird.com today I saw this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.156315 NewEgg has some great combo deals sometimes. Serious overkill for Windows XP (considering XP Pro will only handle 2 cores), but definitely fun for Linux. From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com Fri Jan 23 13:45:39 2009 From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:45:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Inexpensive hardware In-Reply-To: <1190979562.448981232737220052.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1190979562.448981232737220052.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <13f276ca84be73599a1a0da32436b76b@localhost> Must have been a good deal, not on newegg anymore ;-). Also, just to clarify on the overkill part, Win XP Home ~ 1 Socket only but can utilize as many cores as are on that processor (I.e. quad core would still show 4 cores). XP Pro supports 2 sockets with as many cores the processor may have. Not that I would recommend windows to anyone I know. >On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:00:20 +0000 (UTC), auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > Someone asked about a good place to find inexpensive hardware for a gaming > rig... > > Looking at Passwird.com today I saw this: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.156315 > > NewEgg has some great combo deals sometimes. > > Serious overkill for Windows XP (considering XP Pro will only handle 2 > cores), but definitely fun for Linux. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sloncho at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 13:45:31 2009 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:45:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware sources In-Reply-To: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5daafeb10901220259s71a04146o7eec6fba19df27e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:59 AM, swede wrote: > I've been finding most of my cheapest hardware sources on www.pricewatch.com > but I'd be interested in other recommendations. > > More specifically, He's looking to build a Windows XP gaming (I know, but > the game (RFonline) won't run under linux, I've tried) box for around $150 > (Just MB/CPU/Ram). And I'm supposed to find the best deal. > > I am asking here because I'd like to make the machine dual boot Fedora for > him. > You may try looking trough fatwallet.com hot deals forum. You can even create a topic alert, so you got emailed when a certain keyword appears in a post. I have found a lot of good deals there. -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. From admin at lctn.org Fri Jan 23 14:50:03 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:50:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help with nfs In-Reply-To: <226508.2560.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <497A10D4.9090606@lctn.org> <226508.2560.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <497A2D7B.5080507@lctn.org> >One issue you may run into, is that ownership of a file depends on the user id (uid) and group id (gid) of a >file/directory. The uid & gid numbers must match across both systems or the file will look like it's owned by someone >else. I found that out. I believe I may have had it working properly earlier, but my browser cache need to be cleared to see the changes. Thanks for your reply. From swaite at sbn-services.com Sat Jan 24 02:51:41 2009 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (swaite at sbn-services.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:51:41 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: <20090124085141.rxecyul17hko4c48@webmail.sbn-services.com> Sunny - This Popcorn unit sounds like it would actually be a better option. The only problem is it would not play Tivo recorded shows unless they were converted. Other than that I might want one of these for myself. Donovan - I might still have an interest in your old Tivo units, but I have to check first which units are easily hacked. I believe most S2 and HD models have a PROM that needs to be modified before any new kernal can be put in place, but I think S1 are fine. If it is a DirectTV model then that won't work. Quoting Sunny : > I do not know how "cheap" are TiVos, but if it is in the 200$ price > range, check popcornhour A100: > > http://www.popcornhour.com/ > > I have the unit, and it plays almost everything I throw at it. You can > add HDD to it for local storage (SMB and NFS servers build in), or it > has SMB client to play from a local share. > > Cheers > > > -- > Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) > > Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just > a pile of scrap. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From admin at lctn.org Sat Jan 24 08:16:46 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:16:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> Message-ID: <497B22CE.6000909@lctn.org> find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +10 -type f -exec rm -rf {} \; >> >> Remove the "-type f" > > Will the time stamp on a directory always be at least as new as the > newest file in the tree within the directory? Apparently not -- I > just checked it. I think you might mean that he should remove the > "-type f" and also change the "-rf" to "-f". Look at this on your > machine: > > ls -ld /home > ls -ld /home/* > > See what I mean? > > Mike I ran this script for the first time last night, and it looks like I ran into this very problem. Instead of leaving folder 20 days old, it only left folders 8 days old. Is there another way to modify the script to only remove folders 21 days or older? From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sat Jan 24 12:22:11 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:22:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: <497B22CE.6000909@lctn.org> References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> <497B22CE.6000909@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Raymond Norton wrote: > find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +10 -type f -exec rm -rf {} \; >>> >>> Remove the "-type f" >> >> Will the time stamp on a directory always be at least as new as the >> newest file in the tree within the directory? Apparently not -- I >> just checked it. I think you might mean that he should remove the >> "-type f" and also change the "-rf" to "-f". Look at this on your >> machine: >> >> ls -ld /home >> ls -ld /home/* >> >> See what I mean? >> >> Mike > > I ran this script for the first time last night What script are you talking about? Please be explicit because we made some recommendations and I don't know which ones you used. If ran the command shown on the first line above, then you were ignoring or misunderstanding what I wrote above. > and it looks like I ran into this very problem. Instead of leaving > folder 20 days old, it only left folders 8 days old. Is there another > way to modify the script to only remove folders 21 days or older? For testing purposes you can leave off the -exec and everything to the right of it. Try changing the directory and using different options, stuff like this to see the dates on directories: ls -ld $(find / -mtime +10 -type d) | less ls -ld $(find / -mtime +30 -type d) | less But you have to watch the recursive deleting, like I was saying. Mike From admin at lctn.org Sat Jan 24 12:42:36 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:42:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> <497B22CE.6000909@lctn.org> Message-ID: <497B611C.5010309@lctn.org> Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Raymond Norton wrote: > >> find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +10 -type f -exec rm >> -rf {} \; >>>> >>>> Remove the "-type f" >>> >>> Will the time stamp on a directory always be at least as new as the >>> newest file in the tree within the directory? Apparently not -- I >>> just checked it. I think you might mean that he should remove the >>> "-type f" and also change the "-rf" to "-f". Look at this on your >>> machine: >>> >>> ls -ld /home >>> ls -ld /home/* >>> >>> See what I mean? >>> >>> Mike >> >> I ran this script for the first time last night > > What script are you talking about? Please be explicit because we made > some recommendations and I don't know which ones you used. If ran the > command shown on the first line above, then you were ignoring or > misunderstanding what I wrote above. > > >> and it looks like I ran into this very problem. Instead of leaving >> folder 20 days old, it only left folders 8 days old. Is there another >> way to modify the script to only remove folders 21 days or older? > > For testing purposes you can leave off the -exec and everything to the > right of it. Try changing the directory and using different options, > stuff like this to see the dates on directories: > > ls -ld $(find / -mtime +10 -type d) | less > ls -ld $(find / -mtime +30 -type d) | less > > This is the script I am using: #!/bin/bash mysql -ppassword mailscanner< So about 6 weeks ago I get an email from Comcast claiming that they have detected excessive traffic on port 25 coming from my home network and have shut down the port to prevent spam. Yeah right. I don't have teenagers and my home network is protected by a Smoothwall firewall. None of my computers are compromised. Period. So I call and bitch and they open up port 25 again. I figured some asshat was spoofing my public IP address and using it to send spam so I asked them to force update my public IP. They stated that they can't do that (what a joke). So I knew it would probably happen again. I occasionally notice REALLY slow Internet connections and figured it was happening again. And of course I get another email this morning claiming that there is more spam coming from my network and they have shut down port 25 again. Then I remembered that I had a Bittorrent running on one of my machines and I realized what is going on. They aren't monitoring the ports... They are monitoring the outgoing traffic, not what port it is on. So they see my Bittorrent outgoing traffic and assume it is spam email. F**kin' morons. Not even sure if it is worth bitching at them again. I don't really need port 25 open as I can adjust my mail clients to their 'new' port with no problems. Probably better off just dumping them and going to a real ISP. Guess it's time to start looking around for a new provider. I'm in the south east metro. Any suggestions for an ISP? Qwest is the obvious provider, but I'm open to other suggestions. From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com Sat Jan 24 14:41:41 2009 From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:41:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast network security is a joke... In-Reply-To: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1232829701.6523.30.camel@robert> I think almost everyone has had problems with Comcast. They blocked port 25 on me too. But it was because spam WAS being sent (the BitTorrent program I was using was the problem). Switch to your new port (587 I'm guessing) and put up with them. To do otherwise will probably reduce your bandwidth, cost you more, or both. Comcast stinks, but you can't get good customer service anywhere anymore. On Sat, 2009-01-24 at 20:04 +0000, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > tclug-list at mn-linux.org From scott at dier.name Sat Jan 24 16:00:43 2009 From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:00:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast network security is a joke... In-Reply-To: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1616E0A2-0C20-444C-B9A3-3AF55168A034@dier.name> On Jan 24, 2009, at 2:04 PM, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > So about 6 weeks ago I get an email from Comcast claiming that they > have detected excessive traffic on port 25 coming from my home > network and have shut down the port to prevent spam. Yeah right. I > don't have teenagers and my home network is protected by a > Smoothwall firewall. None of my computers are compromised. Period. > Did you take a tcpdump of the traffic on the linux firewall to ensure there was no such traffic? --- Scott Dier From sloncho at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 17:08:05 2009 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:08:05 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: OT: Tivo unit wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> <20090124085141.rxecyul17hko4c48@webmail.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sunny Date: Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted To: swaite at sbn-services.com On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 2:51 AM, wrote: > Sunny - This Popcorn unit sounds like it would actually be a better > option. The only problem is it would not play Tivo recorded shows > unless they were converted. Other than that I might want one of these > for myself. > I do not know which format Tivo records in, but looks like its mpeg2, and popcorn is capable to pay these. I found this perl program to extract the mpeg file from a .tivo file: http://lifehacker.com/5048824/decrypt-and-remove-commercials-from-tivo-recordings-in-one-step and it should be trivial. Cheers Sunny -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sat Jan 24 17:23:06 2009 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:23:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: OT: Tivo unit wanted In-Reply-To: References: <20090119212442.4l5g78q7l6o0sso4@webmail.sbn-services.com> <20090124085141.rxecyul17hko4c48@webmail.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: On Jan 24, 2009, at 5:08 PM, Sunny wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Sunny > Date: Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Tivo unit wanted > To: swaite at sbn-services.com > > > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 2:51 AM, wrote: >> Sunny - This Popcorn unit sounds like it would actually be a better >> option. The only problem is it would not play Tivo recorded shows >> unless they were converted. Other than that I might want one of these >> for myself. >> > > I do not know which format Tivo records in, but looks like its mpeg2, > and popcorn is capable to pay these. I found this perl program to > extract the mpeg file from a .tivo file: > http://lifehacker.com/5048824/decrypt-and-remove-commercials-from-tivo-recordings-in-one-step > and it should be trivial. I'm a regular reader of Lifehacker and I don't know how I missed that article. Thanks for the link, Sunny! --- Eric Crist From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com Sat Jan 24 22:11:59 2009 From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:11:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast network security is a joke... In-Reply-To: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1232856719.5488.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have a Qwest phone line but my ISP is VISI. Had to fight Qwest to keep my 7Mbps line but I won that battle. I have had no problems, about 25 bucks for the qwest connection and about 25 for VISI. I really like them because you can get a dedicated IP if you want. I use Bittorrent somewhat heavily (around 150+ Gigs a month) and so far they have been silent about it. Also run apache / postfix server on my connection. Thank god Qwest lets you chose an ISP other than MSN! And VISI is local ;-) On Sat, 2009-01-24 at 20:04 +0000, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > So about 6 weeks ago I get an email from Comcast claiming that they have detected excessive traffic on port 25 coming from my home network and have shut down the port to prevent spam. Yeah right. I don't have teenagers and my home network is protected by a Smoothwall firewall. None of my computers are compromised. Period. > > So I call and bitch and they open up port 25 again. > I figured some asshat was spoofing my public IP address and using it to send spam so I asked them to force update my public IP. They stated that they can't do that (what a joke). So I knew it would probably happen again. > > I occasionally notice REALLY slow Internet connections and figured it was happening again. And of course I get another email this morning claiming that there is more spam coming from my network and they have shut down port 25 again. > > Then I remembered that I had a Bittorrent running on one of my machines and I realized what is going on. > > They aren't monitoring the ports... > They are monitoring the outgoing traffic, not what port it is on. > So they see my Bittorrent outgoing traffic and assume it is spam email. > > F**kin' morons. > Not even sure if it is worth bitching at them again. I don't really need port 25 open as I can adjust my mail clients to their 'new' port with no problems. Probably better off just dumping them and going to a real ISP. Guess it's time to start looking around for a new provider. > > I'm in the south east metro. Any suggestions for an ISP? > Qwest is the obvious provider, but I'm open to other suggestions. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at jfoo.org Sat Jan 24 22:26:35 2009 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:26:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast network security is a joke... In-Reply-To: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <497BE9FB.4000701@jfoo.org> auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > They aren't monitoring the ports... > They are monitoring the outgoing traffic, not what port it is on. > So they see my Bittorrent outgoing traffic and assume it is spam email. I'd be VERY suprised if they confuse traffic that way. It's too easy to tell which port it comes from. Did you actually check your outgoing traffic to make sure one of your machines hasn't been hacked and is being used as a spambot? > Not even sure if it is worth bitching at them again. I don't really need port 25 open as I can adjust my mail clients to their 'new' port with no problems. Probably better off just dumping them and going to a real ISP. Guess it's time to start looking around for a new provider. > Huh? You DO need 25 if you are running a real mail server. It has to connect to the rest of the world on port 25 for your outgoing mail. You can't just adjust your clients for this. And if you aren't running a real mail server, why are you using port 25? > I'm in the south east metro. Any suggestions for an ISP? > Qwest is the obvious provider, but I'm open to other suggestions. I'm very happy with Qwest/ipHouse. But I don't think switching providers is going to fix this... j From ecrist at secure-computing.net Sat Jan 24 22:42:24 2009 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:42:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast network security is a joke... In-Reply-To: <497BE9FB.4000701@jfoo.org> References: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <497BE9FB.4000701@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <09BDD2FA-6DDF-4061-87DA-EE2138600E52@secure-computing.net> On Jan 24, 2009, at 10:26 PM, John Gateley wrote: > I'm very happy with Qwest/ipHouse. But I don't think switching > providers is going to fix this... Due to some questionable billing issues on the commercial side, I've been recommending people away from ipHouse of late. On top of that, there has been some recent, relatively frequent, problems down at their data center. Decent people overall, and I like to recommend local folks, but I'd go with Visi if I had to get DSL again. If you'd like more details, message me off-list. --- Eric Crist From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Sun Jan 25 00:59:20 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:59:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] need help removing old files and directories In-Reply-To: <497B611C.5010309@lctn.org> References: <49653A34.6000708@lctn.org> <497B22CE.6000909@lctn.org> <497B611C.5010309@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Raymond Norton wrote: > Mike Miller wrote: >> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Raymond Norton wrote: >> >>> find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +10 -type f -exec rm >>> -rf {} \; >>>>> >>>>> Remove the "-type f" >>>> >>>> Will the time stamp on a directory always be at least as new as the >>>> newest file in the tree within the directory? Apparently not -- I >>>> just checked it. I think you might mean that he should remove the >>>> "-type f" and also change the "-rf" to "-f". Look at this on your >>>> machine: >>>> >>>> ls -ld /home >>>> ls -ld /home/* >>>> >>>> See what I mean? >>>> >>>> Mike >>> >>> I ran this script for the first time last night >> >> What script are you talking about? Please be explicit because we made >> some recommendations and I don't know which ones you used. If ran the >> command shown on the first line above, then you were ignoring or >> misunderstanding what I wrote above. >> >> >>> and it looks like I ran into this very problem. Instead of leaving >>> folder 20 days old, it only left folders 8 days old. Is there another >>> way to modify the script to only remove folders 21 days or older? >> >> For testing purposes you can leave off the -exec and everything to the >> right of it. Try changing the directory and using different options, >> stuff like this to see the dates on directories: >> >> ls -ld $(find / -mtime +10 -type d) | less >> ls -ld $(find / -mtime +30 -type d) | less >> >> This is the script I am using: > > #!/bin/bash > mysql -ppassword mailscanner< delete from maillog where timestamp < date_sub(curdate(), interval 20 day); > EOFMYSQL > find /var/spool/MailScanner/quarantine -mtime +20 -exec rm -rfd {} \; What is the "-d" option to the "rm" command? It isn't in my "man rm" GNU documentation on Ubuntu 8.10. And, like I said earlier, you have to be really, really careful with the "-r" option to rm when you are doing this kind of thing. Try a few experiments without the exec to see how it is working for you before you delete things. Mike From scott at dier.name Sun Jan 25 10:39:29 2009 From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:39:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast network security is a joke... In-Reply-To: <09BDD2FA-6DDF-4061-87DA-EE2138600E52@secure-computing.net> References: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <497BE9FB.4000701@jfoo.org> <09BDD2FA-6DDF-4061-87DA-EE2138600E52@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: When I had qwest.net basic services with static IPs I had no issues with them. I'm guessing its still available if you beat the CSRs up on the phone about $10 internet service. I'm guessing its not available for the adsl2 services, though. On Jan 24, 2009, at 10:42 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: > On Jan 24, 2009, at 10:26 PM, John Gateley wrote: >> I'm very happy with Qwest/ipHouse. But I don't think switching >> providers is going to fix this... > > Due to some questionable billing issues on the commercial side, I've > been recommending people away from ipHouse of late. On top of that, > there has been some recent, relatively frequent, problems down at > their data center. Decent people overall, and I like to recommend > local folks, but I'd go with Visi if I had to get DSL again. > > If you'd like more details, message me off-list. > > --- > Eric Crist > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- Scott Dier From sfertch at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 06:38:53 2009 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:38:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Comcast network security is a joke... In-Reply-To: <1232856719.5488.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1376282621.699491232827481172.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1232856719.5488.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <67f3084a0901260438y271fe24dra7142102b4d43d7f@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Andrew Kuriger wrote: > > Thank god Qwest lets you chose an ISP other than MSN! And VISI is > local ;-) > You can get qwest.net as your ISP. I pay $10/month for basic connection (no mail, web pages, etc) and I can run all the services I want. For an extra $15/month I get a block of static IP's if I want. Aside from the hassle of trying to move the services from one phone line to another so I could get rid of my second phone line(a few years ago), I've never really had a problem with qwest.net as my ISP. -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090126/5262e485/attachment.htm From admin at lctn.org Mon Jan 26 12:51:37 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:51:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ifconfig help Message-ID: <497E0639.5070700@lctn.org> I am switching to a business Internet service with Mediacom. Unfortunately, they want to bond each public IP with a mac address. This is less than desirable, but I don't have anyone in the area that can provide a better solution with the bandwidth I need. I spoke with a few people about setting up a firewall with three external interfaces-one per IP. It seems that might work, but I am partial to my IPcop firewall. The addresses will all be assigned via DHCP. I'm wondering if I could just create aliases on the red interface of IPCOP, and set different hardware addresses per sub interface. I haven't got it to work yet, and assume I have something wrong in my syntax. Is there a way to create the three interfaces this way? Maybe there is a better way to do this??? From dniesen at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 14:34:21 2009 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:34:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ifconfig help In-Reply-To: <497E0639.5070700@lctn.org> References: <497E0639.5070700@lctn.org> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70901261234p78bbe4ecq6314b4c74d8fd19c@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I am switching to a business Internet service with Mediacom. > Unfortunately, they want to bond each public IP with a mac address. This > is less than desirable, but I don't have anyone in the area that can > provide a better solution with the bandwidth I need. > > I spoke with a few people about setting up a firewall with three > external interfaces-one per IP. It seems that might work, but I am > partial to my IPcop firewall. > > The addresses will all be assigned via DHCP. I'm wondering if I could > just create aliases on the red interface of IPCOP, and set different > hardware addresses per sub interface. I haven't got it to work yet, and > assume I have something wrong in my syntax. Is there a way to create the > three interfaces this way? Maybe there is a better way to do this??? > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > In their forums it seems that this is not possible on IPCOP: http://www.ipcops.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10294 I've used pfSense in a number of deployments and have been thrilled with it. Does Multi-WAN very well. I haven't done multi-wan with only one external interface; you probably need a NIC per IP. I (and probably most on this list) have fistfuls of spare 10/100 cards that could be donated to your cause. -- Donovan Niesen From admin at lctn.org Mon Jan 26 14:57:42 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:57:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ifconfig help In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70901261234p78bbe4ecq6314b4c74d8fd19c@mail.gmail.com> References: <497E0639.5070700@lctn.org> <47f4d5e70901261234p78bbe4ecq6314b4c74d8fd19c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497E23C6.7020904@lctn.org> I've used pfSense in a number of deployments and have been thrilled > with it. Does Multi-WAN very well. I haven't done multi-wan with > only one external interface; you probably need a NIC per IP. I (and > probably most on this list) have fistfuls of spare 10/100 cards that > could be donated to your cause. > > > I am looking over pfsense now. In your experience is there an issue with requests coming in on one interface, returning via the default route (different interface)? I see some mention of it on their docs, and not having set up a multi-wan firewall before, I am not sure if it will be an issue,.All traffic will return to the same ISP gateway (I think). Waiting for the installer now. From sloncho at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 15:32:17 2009 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:32:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [tclug-jobs] A recommendation on posting replies to this mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <497E1E49.3060806@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > I hope that the list will always be included in replies. I don't want to > have a list with only questions and no answers. I also don't want to be > on a list where no one knows if the question was already answered and > therefore no one replies, or where multiple people waste their time > sending the same answer to the recipient and not to the list. > +1 -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. From tclug at jfoo.org Mon Jan 26 22:23:40 2009 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:23:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools Message-ID: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> Hi Y'all, There was a recent thread in tclug-jobs about web design that reminded me this is a skill sorely lacking in my toolset. My web design until now has been raw text files edited with emacs (and I'm not even sure if emacs has a html-mode). I don't expect to produce high quality web sites, but I'd like to do more than my hand coded html can achieve. What are good tools? Even though this is tclug, I'm OS agnostic and if you have a favorite mac/windows tool, throw it in the mix please. j From tclug at lizakowski.com Mon Jan 26 23:57:21 2009 From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:57:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools In-Reply-To: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> References: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <200901262357.22047.tclug@lizakowski.com> Ruby on Rails lets you build database-driven websites very quickly. They also have awesome plugins. HAML is a good html replacement. I use it in Rails, but I believe it works standalone too. It replaces html with indented tags that don't need to be closed (so half as many lines of html), plus other nice stuff. I would never go back. They also have a ton of plugins for everything from shopping carts to state machines. But it's not a CMS. You have to write some code to hook it all together. It's well suited for custom development. It be OT, but I could give a demo of Rails at the next meeting if there was interest. PHP and Python are good too, depending on what you're trying to do. Jeremy On Monday 26 January 2009 10:23:40 pm John Gateley wrote: > Hi Y'all, > > There was a recent thread in tclug-jobs about web design that > reminded me this is a skill sorely lacking in my toolset. My > web design until now has been raw text files edited with emacs > (and I'm not even sure if emacs has a html-mode). > > I don't expect to produce high quality web sites, but I'd like > to do more than my hand coded html can achieve. What are good > tools? > > Even though this is tclug, I'm OS agnostic and if you have a > favorite mac/windows tool, throw it in the mix please. > > j > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090126/cffcb6fe/attachment.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 08:01:32 2009 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:01:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools In-Reply-To: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> References: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70901270601n6cae7692j44865171cce8b23c@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:23 PM, John Gateley wrote: > Hi Y'all, > > There was a recent thread in tclug-jobs about web design that > reminded me this is a skill sorely lacking in my toolset. My > web design until now has been raw text files edited with emacs > (and I'm not even sure if emacs has a html-mode). > > I don't expect to produce high quality web sites, but I'd like > to do more than my hand coded html can achieve. What are good > tools? > > Even though this is tclug, I'm OS agnostic and if you have a > favorite mac/windows tool, throw it in the mix please. > > j > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > I have yet to find a WYSIWYG editor that writes decent code. Dreamweaver was probably the best of these tools, but I always felt like once I got something so far I ended up tearing apart the code by hand anyway. Since then, it's always been easier to look at templates for inspiration and hand code the HTML/CSS. As for editors, there are those that swear by Emacs or VI(M) for editing any type of code. I personally wish I was more adept in VIM for the bit of website coding I do. That said, I use Gedit in Gnome. On the surface it's a pretty basic editor but there are some great plugins that extend it just far enough to my liking. If I'm ever stuck in Windows-land I use Notepad++ for any text editing tasks. -- Donovan Niesen From sloncho at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 08:16:39 2009 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:16:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools In-Reply-To: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> References: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:23 PM, John Gateley wrote: > Hi Y'all, > > There was a recent thread in tclug-jobs about web design that > reminded me this is a skill sorely lacking in my toolset. My > web design until now has been raw text files edited with emacs > (and I'm not even sure if emacs has a html-mode). > > I don't expect to produce high quality web sites, but I'd like > to do more than my hand coded html can achieve. What are good > tools? > > Even though this is tclug, I'm OS agnostic and if you have a > favorite mac/windows tool, throw it in the mix please. > NVU is very good web authoring tool: http://www.net2.com/nvu/ -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. From dave at sherohman.org Tue Jan 27 09:32:27 2009 From: dave at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:32:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70901270601n6cae7692j44865171cce8b23c@mail.gmail.com> References: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> <47f4d5e70901270601n6cae7692j44865171cce8b23c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090127153227.GK1432@sherohman.org> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 08:01:32AM -0600, Donovan wrote: > I have yet to find a WYSIWYG editor that writes decent code. > Dreamweaver was probably the best of these tools, but I always felt > like once I got something so far I ended up tearing apart the code by > hand anyway. Yep, exactly. From what I've seen of other people's Dreamweaver- created pages (I don't use it myself), it seems to generate tangled messes, too. > As for editors, there are those that swear by Emacs or VI(M) for > editing any type of code. *raises hand* I use vim for both static HTML pages and templates to be used by other code to generate dynamic pages. (Along with pretty much all my other editing needs.) -- Dave Sherohman NomadNet, Inc. http://nomadnetinc.com/ From tclug at beitsahour.net Tue Jan 27 11:32:41 2009 From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:32:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] USENIX Storage Event at MSI Message-ID: MSI is hosting a USENIX event tomorrow with a tutorial on "Next Generation Storage Networking" The event is free for almost everyone, more information is at http://www.usenix.org/events/cc09/ attached is the internal posting. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: USENIX-Posting.msg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 7199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090127/a2f127ff/attachment.obj From haircut at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 12:34:44 2009 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:34:44 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools In-Reply-To: <20090127153227.GK1432@sherohman.org> References: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> <47f4d5e70901270601n6cae7692j44865171cce8b23c@mail.gmail.com> <20090127153227.GK1432@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <1233081284.7773.46.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:32 -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: > I use vim for both static HTML pages and templates to be > used by other code to generate dynamic pages. (Along with pretty much > all my other editing needs.) +1 / me too. I find GUIs like WYSIWYG editors to be quite helpful in learning about markups by exploration. For instance, autocompletion of CSS attributes. Once the possibilities are discovered and a style or pattern defined, code can be be written (or reused!) to automate the tedious process of generating consistent, accessible, and valid markup. Anyone tried Screem? Looks interesting. Eclipse also provides assistance when authoring markup. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090127/78c0176b/attachment.pgp From ian.greenleaf at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 12:55:00 2009 From: ian.greenleaf at gmail.com (Ian Young) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:55:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools In-Reply-To: <1233081284.7773.46.camel@localhost> References: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> <47f4d5e70901270601n6cae7692j44865171cce8b23c@mail.gmail.com> <20090127153227.GK1432@sherohman.org> <1233081284.7773.46.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <497F5884.8000006@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Another case of good timing: Six Revisions just put out an article that looks pertinent to this: . I would have liked them to be a little more verbose, but it certainly looks like a good starting point, at least. Ian Adam Monsen wrote: > On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 09:32 -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote: >> I use vim for both static HTML pages and templates to be >> used by other code to generate dynamic pages. (Along with pretty much >> all my other editing needs.) > > +1 / me too. > > I find GUIs like WYSIWYG editors to be quite helpful in learning about > markups by exploration. For instance, autocompletion of CSS attributes. > Once the possibilities are discovered and a style or pattern defined, > code can be be written (or reused!) to automate the tedious process of > generating consistent, accessible, and valid markup. > > Anyone tried Screem? Looks interesting. > > Eclipse also provides assistance when authoring markup. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list - -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Promote trust - Use PGP! Comment: http://blog.iangreenleaf.com/2008/08/why-i-sign-with-pgp.html iD8DBQFJf1iEDTFvtHdOkUcRAv04AJ9omlLq5IFkQhi8Efw5O5WyqHG2aQCffb5n 3O0bWSt8eWr/o3MrpVxyJs8= =mz4k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tclug at jfoo.org Tue Jan 27 19:56:33 2009 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:56:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Web design tools In-Reply-To: <200901262357.22047.tclug@lizakowski.com> References: <497E8C4C.9050107@jfoo.org> <200901262357.22047.tclug@lizakowski.com> Message-ID: <497FBB51.9090703@jfoo.org> Jeremy wrote: > It be OT, but I could give a demo of Rails at the next meeting if there > was interest. I'd definitely be interested, both in Rails or a more general approach. It could be focused on Apache to keep it more on-topic. Thanks to all for the hints, I'll spend a nice couple of weeks digesting them. j From admin at lctn.org Wed Jan 28 11:09:01 2009 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:09:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ifconfig help In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70901261337j2584325kd29955973fd1e101@mail.gmail.com> References: <497E0639.5070700@lctn.org> <47f4d5e70901261234p78bbe4ecq6314b4c74d8fd19c@mail.gmail.com> <497E23C6.7020904@lctn.org> <47f4d5e70901261337j2584325kd29955973fd1e101@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4980912D.9010603@lctn.org> >> I am looking over pfsense now. In your experience is there an issue with >> requests coming in on one interface, returning via the default route >> (different interface)? I see some mention of it on their docs, and not >> having set up a multi-wan firewall before, I am not sure if it will be >> an issue,.All traffic will return to the same ISP gateway (I think). >> PfSense was the answer! (Thanks Donovan). I put 5 nics in a box, and set three as WAN interfaces. I was able access my laptop, using port 3389, from two different public IPs on the PfSense box. From dniesen at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 11:27:55 2009 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:27:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] ifconfig help In-Reply-To: <4980912D.9010603@lctn.org> References: <497E0639.5070700@lctn.org> <47f4d5e70901261234p78bbe4ecq6314b4c74d8fd19c@mail.gmail.com> <497E23C6.7020904@lctn.org> <47f4d5e70901261337j2584325kd29955973fd1e101@mail.gmail.com> <4980912D.9010603@lctn.org> Message-ID: <47f4d5e70901280927h38c4cc24la6d054eb4f450c70@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> I am looking over pfsense now. In your experience is there an issue with >>> requests coming in on one interface, returning via the default route >>> (different interface)? I see some mention of it on their docs, and not >>> having set up a multi-wan firewall before, I am not sure if it will be >>> an issue,.All traffic will return to the same ISP gateway (I think). >>> > > > PfSense was the answer! (Thanks Donovan). I put 5 nics in a box, and set > three as WAN interfaces. I was able access my laptop, using port 3389, > from two different public IPs on the PfSense box. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Awesome! Glad it worked. If you ever want a fun project, there's a lot of nifty stuff going on under the hood via PHP. It's pretty easy to tweak beyond even it's already numerous capabilities. -- Donovan Niesen From mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu Fri Jan 30 17:53:26 2009 From: mbmiller at taxa.epi.umn.edu (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:53:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] using Gmail as a mail server Message-ID: I've been running my own mail server but it looks like I may have to forgo the pleasure of continuing with that. How easy is it to use Gmail as the server but continue to use Alpine, as always, on my Ubuntu box? I have a bunch of procmail recipies to sort the incoming messages. I assume there is a way to use something like fetchmail to grab everthing coming into gmail, pull it through procmail and sort it into inboxes, as always. Is that right? Have you done it? I'm wondering if Gmail's "discussion" system of organizing messages will cause problems. Any ideas? Thanks in advance! Mike From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 18:04:48 2009 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:04:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] using Gmail as a mail server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <254fef0f0901301604v57fe3520h6a9ac789e009f5c5@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I've been running my own mail server but it looks like I may have to forgo > the pleasure of continuing with that. How easy is it to use Gmail as the > server but continue to use Alpine, as always, on my Ubuntu box? > > I have a bunch of procmail recipies to sort the incoming messages. I > assume there is a way to use something like fetchmail to grab everthing > coming into gmail, pull it through procmail and sort it into inboxes, as > always. Is that right? Have you done it? > > I'm wondering if Gmail's "discussion" system of organizing messages will > cause problems. Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance! > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > GMail offers both POP3 and IMAP access, to any client can work with it. You won't necessarily be able to seamlessly use some of the features if you go back and forth between mutt and the web interface, but it will certainly work, and if you stick to mutt it will be the same as any other server. -- Tony Yarusso http://tonyyarusso.com/ From scott at dier.name Fri Jan 30 18:35:53 2009 From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:35:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] using Gmail as a mail server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51d20ae60901301635s1e2b18e5paf105882acba6782@mail.gmail.com> I actually use Google Apps for Domains -- it works fine with IMAP so I figure using Alpine will work fine. You could use fetchmail or convert your procmail recipes to google's filtering logic (I didn't find making up rules on their web interface too bad). The IMAP import on a paid Google Apps for Domains account is impressive, I had myself and my wife converted in less than half a day -- I had ~2.5GB of mail, too. On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I've been running my own mail server but it looks like I may have to forgo > the pleasure of continuing with that. How easy is it to use Gmail as the > server but continue to use Alpine, as always, on my Ubuntu box? > > I have a bunch of procmail recipies to sort the incoming messages. I > assume there is a way to use something like fetchmail to grab everthing > coming into gmail, pull it through procmail and sort it into inboxes, as > always. Is that right? Have you done it? > > I'm wondering if Gmail's "discussion" system of organizing messages will > cause problems. Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance! > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Scott Dier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20090130/7ea1bc04/attachment.htm