From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 17:30:44 2009
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:30:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] bugzilla / postfix issues
Message-ID: <82f04dc40906011530o386c1910g3e19d7d911a9566b@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone know anything about bugzilla and postfix?

I've got a system that I inherited, and then immediately had to move
it to a new company / new domain, etc.

Bugzilla has user accounts like "freda".

I have an entry in /etc/aliases for fredA:

freda:    freddy.krueger at domain.com

postfix is configured to relay to an exchange server (which handles
the e-mail for domain.com).

postfix also has an recipient_canonical file, which looks like:

freda    freddy.krueger at domain.com

Things seem like they should be working - in fact, they kind of are...
if I go to bugzilla, and ask it to e-mail freda his password the
e-mail arrives in his inbox.

However, if I log in as fredA, and update a bug, bugzilla hangs.  The
browser that submitted the update never gets a page refresh, and the
bugzilla perl script hangs on the server.  One difference is that in
this case, it is trying to e--mail multiple addresses, instead of just
one.

The only clue that I can find is the following from the mail.log file:

Jun  1 16:38:13 server postfix/smtpd[26483]: warning: non-SMTP command
from server.domain.com[127.0.0.1]: X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC


How can I further debug this?

Thanks,

Dan


From jucziz6 at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 19:46:45 2009
From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:46:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Website developer
Message-ID: <81675d140906011746h62551d83n5ecff4249cf34138@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy gang,

I'm looking for a person that develops web sites to take over one that
I've been working on for a friend. Hopefully this could happen before
I loose the person as a friend.

I've been working on the website for free, I KNOW BAD IDEA. I've
almost have it finished and will be informing the friend he'll have to
find someone else to manage it for him. I thought it might be nice to
give him a few names..


Thanks


From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 19:59:32 2009
From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:59:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Website developer
In-Reply-To: <81675d140906011746h62551d83n5ecff4249cf34138@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140906011746h62551d83n5ecff4249cf34138@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bada98250906011759g35e319b8s25dc8ae870b80e31@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have the time or inclination, but Dan Farrell (dan at farrellit.net)
does CMS/PHP stuff and general web design/admin stuff. Have your friend give
him a shout and he can get a quote.

======================
Jordan Peacock
hewhocutsdown at gmail.com
hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com


On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 6:46 PM, James <jucziz6 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy gang,
>
> I'm looking for a person that develops web sites to take over one that
> I've been working on for a friend. Hopefully this could happen before
> I loose the person as a friend.
>
> I've been working on the website for free, I KNOW BAD IDEA. I've
> almost have it finished and will be informing the friend he'll have to
> find someone else to manage it for him. I thought it might be nice to
> give him a few names..
>
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 21:45:11 2009
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:45:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Website developer
In-Reply-To: <81675d140906011746h62551d83n5ecff4249cf34138@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140906011746h62551d83n5ecff4249cf34138@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <254fef0f0906011945l26fa7bd2oae6d0df8671be4ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:46 PM, James <jucziz6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy gang,
>
> I'm looking for a person that develops web sites to take over one that
> I've been working on for a friend. Hopefully this could happen before
> I loose the person as a friend.
>
> I've been working on the website for free, I KNOW BAD IDEA. I've
> almost have it finished and will be informing the friend he'll have to
> find someone else to manage it for him. I thought it might be nice to
> give him a few names..
>
>
> Thanks

I can recommend a firm that I actually work for.  It's called
Para-Diddle Design, and they do various things with both graphic
design and web development, PHP, CSS, etc. specializing in custom-fit
CMS solutions usually based on Drupal.  You can check out what they do
and find contact information at http://para-diddledesign.com/ .  (I do
mostly behind-the-scenes server administration kinds of things for
them.)

 - Tony Yarusso
http://tonyyarusso.com/


From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 09:41:49 2009
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:41:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] bugzilla / postfix issues
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc40906020740o7f451edbi638fd415a2816e59@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82f04dc40906011530o386c1910g3e19d7d911a9566b@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906012005300.5381@veeta>
	<82f04dc40906020740o7f451edbi638fd415a2816e59@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82f04dc40906020741h1b4ca425p150a10e08559e7d7@mail.gmail.com>

 On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Gerry <gsker at skerbitz.org> wrote:
> Here's a thought....
>
> I'm not up to speed with bugzilla, but given the error,
> I'd check to see if bugzilla was set to use SMTP directly or Sendmail.
> I'm guessing the first -- if so, try changing it to sendmail
> (then make user /usr/lib/sendmail exists.
>
 <Bow>

 Thanks for the suggestion! That fixed the problem. ?I don't know how
 it ever worked properly before...

 I hadn't looked at that particular option, since I hadn't changed that
 option when the thing broke.

 Thanks again,

 Dan


From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 09:47:05 2009
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:47:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Website developer
In-Reply-To: <81675d140906011746h62551d83n5ecff4249cf34138@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140906011746h62551d83n5ecff4249cf34138@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82f04dc40906020747y13da7871t4b7d520a71858900@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:46 PM, James <jucziz6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy gang,
>
> I'm looking for a person that develops web sites to take over one that
> I've been working on for a friend. Hopefully this could happen before
> I loose the person as a friend.
>

A friend of mine runs this company locally in the cities:

http://www.augmentj.com/

He would be happy to give you a quote for hosting and/or maintenance.

Dan


From dniesen at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 11:09:30 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:09:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Business/Enterprise experience with Qwest services
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70906020909wdbcc511q79428803c88741ab@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking for some feedback on Qwest's enterprise-level services.
I'm talking like multiple T1/PRI, fiber not their normal home or
business DSL or POTS lines.  If you could reply on or off list with
your positive or negative experiences, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

-- 
Donovan Niesen


From marktraceur at gmail.com  Tue Jun  2 11:57:07 2009
From: marktraceur at gmail.com (Mark Traceur)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:57:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Desperately Looking for a Job...
Message-ID: <ea11dae60906020957y24f1a82dpf1766ebee6164b54@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, my name is Mark Holmquist. I'm a rising college sophomore, majoring in
Computer Science, and I have been looking for work recently. As you can
imagine, not many places have work left at this time of the year, and
especially in this economy, it can be tough to find a summer job.

Well, I have 4 years of experience working with tech support, first 3 years
with Macs exclusively (at my high school), then one year at college, working
on Macs, Windows machines, even the occasional Netbook with Ubuntu
installed. I've taken two semesters in C++ programming, along with personal
experience in HTML, PHP, XML, Perl, and of course some UNIX. I figured one
of you may know someone who's hiring. I'm also 19, with fairly operative
limbs, so manual labor isn't deplorable :)

I'm not sure if this is against the posting rules. Apologies in advance if
it is.

Thanks,
Mark
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From mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 08:44:38 2009
From: mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com (Mark Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 06:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <1591795666.7785194.1244036678402.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>

LinkedIn
------------



   
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Mark

Learn more:
https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/605313173/nm3DMEIU/

------------------------------------------

What is LinkedIn and why should you join?
http://learn.linkedin.com/what-is-linkedin

 
------
(c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation

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From tlunde at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 08:33:40 2009
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 08:33:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]  want to buy a used USB modem
In-Reply-To: <1591795666.7785194.1244036678402.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
References: <1591795666.7785194.1244036678402.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
Message-ID: <F8A5A2B8-FF09-451F-9A9C-A30B7F1B0AC2@gmail.com>

I'd like to buy a used USB modem for use with a unix box, so no  
WinModems, please.

Anyone have one sitting around on a shelf that they'd like to be rid of?

Thanks
Thomas


From coal at mailvault.com  Mon Jun  8 01:33:09 2009
From: coal at mailvault.com (bwood)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 08:33:09 00200 (CEST)
Subject: [tclug-list] C++ developers invited to get together
Message-ID: <20090608063351.EFA8BB6416E@gateway.mailvault.com>

Shalom

I'm going to host a meeting in my Roseville office
on Monday, June 15th at 7:30pm.  I'll give a talk
about Ebenezer Enterprises and the C++ Middleware
Writer.  I'll also describe an opportunity to make
some money by finding build, run time, or efficiency 
related defects in our software.  The office can 
comfortably accomodate 5 or 6 people, so I can't 
guarantee everyone a spot.  If there's a lot of 
interest, I'll probably look for a larger meeting  
place.  Kosher snacks will be provided.  I look 
forward to hearing from you.


Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
www.webEbenezer.net

Unless the L-Rd build the house, they labor in vain
that build that build it: unless the L-RD keep the
city, the watchman waketh but in vain.  Psalm 127:1


I recommend the articles on social topics by physics
professor Jonathan Katz -- http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz.

From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Jun  8 07:58:35 2009
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:58:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200906081258.n58CwZD29364@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Brother HL-5250DN printer

Laser printer with built in network and duplexing. Works great, I've had it about 1 year and just recently replaced it with a color laser.

Linux ships with drivers and there are Linux drivers on the website.

$150 and it's yours.

Seller Email address: jpschewe at mtu dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From stuporglue at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 09:21:46 2009
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:21:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
Message-ID: <acfe3b450906080721r4b8cd7dcpfed29c5684340dc5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm just moving to Fridley, and I will need Internet services. I won't
be getting phone or cable.

The Fridley city website only links to Qwest and Comcast, are there
any other options I should be looking at?

Thank you,
-- 
Michael Moore
-------------------------
Share your families' genealogy and family history books. It's easy and
free : http://bookscanned.com


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Mon Jun  8 09:51:39 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Mon,  8 Jun 2009 09:51:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <acfe3b450906080721r4b8cd7dcpfed29c5684340dc5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>


Welcome to the Metro monopoly by Comcast and Qwest. If you need raw
spped, I would look at Comcast, but they also have a 250GB limit and I
personally would hit that ceiling very quickly on a fast connection and
you are vendor locked into Comcast (No freedom to choose ISP).

I personally use Qwest's infrastructure while my ISP is Visi. IMO I
really like them, they allocate IP's quickly with very little hassle,
although you are still limited to Qwest's modem training (locked modem
speed) speed (depending on what tier you buy from Qwest).

~Andrew

On 6/8/2009, "Michael Moore" <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm just moving to Fridley, and I will need Internet services. I won't
>be getting phone or cable.
>
>The Fridley city website only links to Qwest and Comcast, are there
>any other options I should be looking at?
>
>Thank you,
>--
>Michael Moore
>-------------------------
>Share your families' genealogy and family history books. It's easy and
>free : http://bookscanned.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From stuff at cb1inc.com  Mon Jun  8 12:47:32 2009
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:47:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>
Message-ID: <4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>

Or use Comcast Business class and get good speed, static ips, no
bandwidth limits and no packet shaping.  It's like $70/mo with a 1 year
contract.  Totally worth it.

-Chris


Andrew Kuriger wrote:
> Welcome to the Metro monopoly by Comcast and Qwest. If you need raw
> spped, I would look at Comcast, but they also have a 250GB limit and I
> personally would hit that ceiling very quickly on a fast connection and
> you are vendor locked into Comcast (No freedom to choose ISP).
>
> I personally use Qwest's infrastructure while my ISP is Visi. IMO I
> really like them, they allocate IP's quickly with very little hassle,
> although you are still limited to Qwest's modem training (locked modem
> speed) speed (depending on what tier you buy from Qwest).
>
> ~Andrew
>
> On 6/8/2009, "Michael Moore" <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm just moving to Fridley, and I will need Internet services. I won't
>> be getting phone or cable.
>>
>> The Fridley city website only links to Qwest and Comcast, are there
>> any other options I should be looking at?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> --
>> Michael Moore
>> -------------------------
>> Share your families' genealogy and family history books. It's easy and
>> free : http://bookscanned.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 14:53:57 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:53:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I got the new Palm Pre when it came out on Saturday.  As luck would have 
it, my wife's phone failed, so we had to get another Sprint phone to 
replace it, so I found out about the Pre and got one for her and another 
for me.  Before the Pre I was using the Treo 600 for 5.5 years and it 
still worked great.  The Pre is taking things to a much higher level 
though:  multitouch 320x480 display with 24-bit color, WiFi, EVDO, 
Bluetooth, a keypad, beautiful small design, very nice apps and a new OS 
called "Palm webOS" that allows developers to use HTML, CSS and JavaScript 
(so expect a lot of apps to come out soon).

Anyway, I don't work for Palm or Spring or know anyone who does.  So far I 
like this product though.  One bad thing -- it sometimes refuses to take a 
charge, it doesn't warn about this, and you have to restart it to fix the 
problem.  I don't know how often that happens, but it happened to me and 
to another guy who attended a training seminar with me (and about 15 
attending).

The new webOS is not Free Software, but I guess it has some Linux inside 
and thus free components.  I am interested in using the Pre to connect to 
Linux boxes via SSH.  If you see an app that can do this, let me know. 
Apparently the Pre can run old PalmOS software using an API called 
"Classic" (which costs $30, but I think I need it):

http://www.motionapps.com/classic/

The truth is, I really wanted to start doing something with OpenMoko, but 
every time I checked, they seemed to be way behind and not really ready 
for me.  I'll be keeping my eye on them.

Feel free to write to me off of the list if you are using one of these Pre 
phones or are interested in them.  It would be fun to hear from local 
users.

Mike


From stuff at cb1inc.com  Mon Jun  8 16:28:54 2009
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:28:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>

I've been dying to rant...

I had an iPhone 3G until last Saturday when I bought a Pre and then
realized a piece of me died.  While the Pre is a great phone compared to
the Treo, it sucks compared to the iPhone.

Things that suck
- It is not easy to turn the phone on, unlock it, bring up the phone
app, find a contact, and call them with one hand.
- The Pre will not allow you to connect to a IMAP server with a
self-signed SSL cert which is a HUGE disappointment.
- The flap to reveal the connector port for charging is difficult to
open and I could honestly see the flap breaking off eventually.
- The connector looks like a micro USB port, but is some proprietary
connector.
- Most of the time it feels like the touch screen is not accurate... it
thinks my figure is like 5 pixels below where I clicked.
- The first day I had it, it would arbitrarily reboot.  That hasn't
happened since I updated the phone.
- A fully charged battery with WIFI and bluetooth on drained about 25%
while I slept for 8 hours.
- There is a bit of slowness with the UI, especially when launching apps.
- The best way to sync contacts is with your Gmail contacts which I had
to first get my contacts into Gmail (which took a long time).  You can't
use iTunes to sync contacts.
- The phone looks like a symmetrical stone... in a dark office, I often
somehow manage to pick up the phone upside down.
- The web browser is clunkier than the iPhone's.
- The max ringtone volume is still hard to hear when the phone is in
your pocket.  Maybe I'm just getting old.
- No visual voicemail.  Calling up and hearing "1 new voicemail message"
from some number that I haven't memorized is worthless.
- Makes a distorted noise when using my Jawbone bluetooth headset before
and after calls.
- It's probably a matter of time before the Pre doesn't work with
iTunes.  Right now, it is detected as an iPod v1.0.
- The address book lists all of the contacts and their phone numbers
making the list very long and visually hard to find who I want to call.
- You can't add/edit contacts while in the phone's address book.  You
need to leave the phone app and go into the contacts app.
- Instead of a "settings" area, they have a separate app for configuring
bluetooth, device info, wifi, sounds, wallpaper, security, etc.
- No SDK... yet.

Things that don't suck
- Feels comfortable next to your ear.
- Sprints plans are cheaper than AT&T's.
- Sprint has better signal at my house in Shakopee.
- The gestures are fun.
- Best Palm phone so far.
- In my opinion, best Sprint phone so far.
- Feels smaller in my pocket compared to the iPhone.
- The camera flash LED is nice.
- When plugged in, it can show up as a external drive.
- You can update the phone without a computer.
- There is some new innovative UI, but most of it was copied from the
iPhone.
- When the SDK does come out, it will work on Linux!  And you don't have
to code in Objective-C!

I'm sure there's a list of other things that rock or suck with the Pre.

Despite AT&T's network being crap in my area, I'm going to switch back
to AT&T and get a iPhone 3GS.  The 16GB model is the same price as the
Pre and has lots of nice features.  Only 6 months until AT&T adds a new
tower to my area that should make the signal better.

Now the question is how do I return the Pre and switch back to AT&T
without losing my phone number?

-Chris

P.S. Once I'm back on my iPhone, I'll be using Touch Term
(http://www.freshapps.com/touch-term/) to SSH into my Linux boxes.



Mike Miller wrote:
> I got the new Palm Pre when it came out on Saturday.  As luck would have 
> it, my wife's phone failed, so we had to get another Sprint phone to 
> replace it, so I found out about the Pre and got one for her and another 
> for me.  Before the Pre I was using the Treo 600 for 5.5 years and it 
> still worked great.  The Pre is taking things to a much higher level 
> though:  multitouch 320x480 display with 24-bit color, WiFi, EVDO, 
> Bluetooth, a keypad, beautiful small design, very nice apps and a new OS 
> called "Palm webOS" that allows developers to use HTML, CSS and JavaScript 
> (so expect a lot of apps to come out soon).
>
> Anyway, I don't work for Palm or Spring or know anyone who does.  So far I 
> like this product though.  One bad thing -- it sometimes refuses to take a 
> charge, it doesn't warn about this, and you have to restart it to fix the 
> problem.  I don't know how often that happens, but it happened to me and 
> to another guy who attended a training seminar with me (and about 15 
> attending).
>
> The new webOS is not Free Software, but I guess it has some Linux inside 
> and thus free components.  I am interested in using the Pre to connect to 
> Linux boxes via SSH.  If you see an app that can do this, let me know. 
> Apparently the Pre can run old PalmOS software using an API called 
> "Classic" (which costs $30, but I think I need it):
>
> http://www.motionapps.com/classic/
>
> The truth is, I really wanted to start doing something with OpenMoko, but 
> every time I checked, they seemed to be way behind and not really ready 
> for me.  I'll be keeping my eye on them.
>
> Feel free to write to me off of the list if you are using one of these Pre 
> phones or are interested in them.  It would be fun to hear from local 
> users.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jun  8 17:31:46 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:31:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Chris Barber wrote:

> I've been dying to rant...
>
> I had an iPhone 3G until last Saturday when I bought a Pre and then 
> realized a piece of me died.  While the Pre is a great phone compared to 
> the Treo, it sucks compared to the iPhone.

It's great to get all these ideas about the phone.  Thanks!  Why did you 
want to dump the iPhone?  If I had been using an iPhone I don't think I 
would have switched to the Pre, especially not on Day 1.

More comments interspersed below...


> Things that suck
> - It is not easy to turn the phone on, unlock it, bring up the phone
> app, find a contact, and call them with one hand.

What part of that is hard?  If I hold it in my fingers and use my thumb on 
the screen, I think I'm doing those things quite well.  This is one place 
where a keypad on the screen would help.  I think they have only a 
hardware keypad, and if it isn't out, you have to scroll instead of typing 
letters.


> - The Pre will not allow you to connect to a IMAP server with a
> self-signed SSL cert which is a HUGE disappointment.
> - The flap to reveal the connector port for charging is difficult to
> open and I could honestly see the flap breaking off eventually.

Yes.  I should have mentioned that.  It is absurd.  I think it is a tactic 
to help them to sell the magnetic chargers (which do not come with a wire, 
and so I will return mine if they won't give me a free wire).  One tip -- 
pop out the keypad, it is way easier to reach the connector cover.  On the 
bright side, the cover stays very flush with the side of the phone which 
looks good and helps to keep it from popping open accidentally.


> - The connector looks like a micro USB port, but is some proprietary
> connector.

Exactly.  Definitely annoying.  it would have been sweet if they had used 
the ordinary mini-USB (I don't know what it's really called) that most 
cameras seem to be using these days.


> - Most of the time it feels like the touch screen is not accurate... it
> thinks my figure is like 5 pixels below where I clicked.

Oh -- maybe that is why I seem to have trouble sometimes clicking on 
links.  I'll be watching for that.  The old Palms used to have you click 
on certain positions for calibration.  Maybe they need to return to that.


> - The first day I had it, it would arbitrarily reboot.  That hasn't
> happened since I updated the phone.

That is very bad, but what does "updated the phone" mean?  Is there an 
update for the software already?  It's been out for two days.


> - A fully charged battery with WIFI and bluetooth on drained about 25%
> while I slept for 8 hours.

Yes, the battery doesn't hold up all that well, or the processor uses a 
lot of battery.  Either way, you have to charge it pretty often.  I leave 
plugged into the charger overnight.  You could also put it in "Airplane 
Mode" to save battery if you were traveling or soemthing (I assume that 
would work but I haven't tried it).


> - There is a bit of slowness with the UI, especially when launching apps.

I wasn't thinking of it that way, but it does take something like 3-4 
seconds to open the calendar, for example.  I guess that doesn't bother me 
because I haven't been using an iPhone.


> - The best way to sync contacts is with your Gmail contacts which I had
> to first get my contacts into Gmail (which took a long time).  You can't
> use iTunes to sync contacts.

This is an interesting issue.  I haven't studied it fully yet, but I think 
there is a lot of flexibility in this area which is nice, but it means 
more work getting to the bottom of how it works.  I think you can back 
everything up to your PC, or to Sprint's web, or you can back contacts and 
calendar to Google, and various combinations also seem to be possible. 
This definitely causes problems, but maybe it also creates opportunities 
to do cool things I couldn't do otherwise.


> - The phone looks like a symmetrical stone... in a dark office, I often
> somehow manage to pick up the phone upside down.

True.  One cool thing (or annoying thing, possibly) is that if you hold it 
upside down, it will show web pages upside down so that they are 
right-side up.


> - The web browser is clunkier than the iPhone's.
> - The max ringtone volume is still hard to hear when the phone is in
> your pocket.  Maybe I'm just getting old.

You are right.  David Pogue said the same thing.  I guess you can add 
ringtones and maybe those can be made louder.  Not sure.  Definitely 
another limitation.


> - No visual voicemail.  Calling up and hearing "1 new voicemail message"
> from some number that I haven't memorized is worthless.

I'm not sure I understand this.  This is a Sprint problem, no?  Do you 
mean that Sprint's voicemail won't tell you the name of the caller?


> - Makes a distorted noise when using my Jawbone bluetooth headset before
> and after calls.
> - It's probably a matter of time before the Pre doesn't work with
> iTunes.  Right now, it is detected as an iPod v1.0.

Maybe it will be a perpetual battle with Apple trying to detect the Pre 
and deny it access and the Pre trying to fake iTunes into thinking it is 
an iPod.  The Pre works with a certain version of iTunes but we don't know 
what will happen.  It doesn't happen to bother me because I don't use 
iTunes.


> - The address book lists all of the contacts and their phone numbers
> making the list very long and visually hard to find who I want to call.

Do you want only some of your contacts to appear?  I'm not clear on what 
the issue is here.  So far I haven't found a way to make a short 
speed-dial list.  Is that not doable?  If not, that is a major 
shortcoming.  If they think they can sell that to me, they are wrong.


> - You can't add/edit contacts while in the phone's address book.  You
> need to leave the phone app and go into the contacts app.

Weird.  I'm not understanding this aspect of their design.  If the phone 
list is different from the contacts list, how is the phone list generated 
and edited?  How do I control it?


> - Instead of a "settings" area, they have a separate app for configuring
> bluetooth, device info, wifi, sounds, wallpaper, security, etc.

Good point.


> - No SDK... yet.

I assume that is coming soon.  They want to have a lot of developers.


> Things that don't suck
> - Feels comfortable next to your ear.
> - Sprints plans are cheaper than AT&T's.
> - Sprint has better signal at my house in Shakopee.
> - The gestures are fun.
> - Best Palm phone so far.
> - In my opinion, best Sprint phone so far.
> - Feels smaller in my pocket compared to the iPhone.
> - The camera flash LED is nice.
> - When plugged in, it can show up as a external drive.
> - You can update the phone without a computer.
> - There is some new innovative UI, but most of it was copied from the iPhone.
> - When the SDK does come out, it will work on Linux!  And you don't have
> to code in Objective-C!
>
> I'm sure there's a list of other things that rock or suck with the Pre.

It would be interesting to hear more about ways that it compares with 
iPhone.  I've never owned an iPhone.  iPhone doesn't have a hardware 
keypad.  I don't mind that Pre copies iPhone UI!  ;-)


> Despite AT&T's network being crap in my area, I'm going to switch back 
> to AT&T and get a iPhone 3GS.  The 16GB model is the same price as the 
> Pre and has lots of nice features.  Only 6 months until AT&T adds a new 
> tower to my area that should make the signal better.
>
> Now the question is how do I return the Pre and switch back to AT&T 
> without losing my phone number?

Is that a problem?  I think you can return it within 30 days.  Can't you 
always keep your number when you change carriers?  Didn't you keep your 
number when you switched to Sprint from AT&T?


> P.S. Once I'm back on my iPhone, I'll be using Touch Term
> (http://www.freshapps.com/touch-term/) to SSH into my Linux boxes.

Nice.  We need something like that for Pre (preferrably free).

Thanks again for all of the comments about the Pre.  I'm sure this will 
help me a lot while I'm working on figuring out all of its intricacies.

Mike


From stuff at cb1inc.com  Mon Jun  8 21:26:18 2009
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:26:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>

Doesn't take long for this thread to grow like wild fire.  Inlined...

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Chris Barber wrote:
>
>   
>> I've been dying to rant...
>>
>> I had an iPhone 3G until last Saturday when I bought a Pre and then 
>> realized a piece of me died.  While the Pre is a great phone compared to 
>> the Treo, it sucks compared to the iPhone.
>>     
>
> It's great to get all these ideas about the phone.  Thanks!  Why did you 
> want to dump the iPhone?  If I had been using an iPhone I don't think I 
> would have switched to the Pre, especially not on Day 1.
>
> More comments interspersed below...
>
>   
I liked my iPhone.  I left because AT&T's network is horrible.  The
coverage at my home is bad and I'm right off HWY 169 in Shakopee.  I get
dropped calls constantly and it didn't matter if I was inside or
outside.  My favorite is it wouldn't tell me I had voicemails until the
next time I made a phone call.  I figured that the Pre on Sprint
couldn't be worse than anything on AT&T.  I just miss the iPhone and how
it's interaction made a lot of sense... partly since I've become used to it.
>   
>> Things that suck
>> - It is not easy to turn the phone on, unlock it, bring up the phone
>> app, find a contact, and call them with one hand.
>>     
>
> What part of that is hard?  If I hold it in my fingers and use my thumb on 
> the screen, I think I'm doing those things quite well.  This is one place 
> where a keypad on the screen would help.  I think they have only a 
> hardware keypad, and if it isn't out, you have to scroll instead of typing 
> letters.
>
>   
I am unable to easily slide open the phone, navigate to the phone app,
find a contact, and call them using one hand while driving.  The iPhone
allows you to define "favorites" and then it's a simple click and it's
dialing.  I search the Pre for a way to bind a contact to a number, but
couldn't find a way and besides that solution sucks since I need to
memorize who "1" is linked to.  The main contact list on the iPhone is
also nice since it lists just names, no numbers, you click a name, then
pick which number you want (i.e. work, mobile, home, etc).  The iPhones
contact list also has a quick scroll area on the right side that is
basically a vertical bar of each letter in the alphabet and you can
scroll with it to get all the way down to the bottom real quickly.
>   
>> - The Pre will not allow you to connect to a IMAP server with a
>> self-signed SSL cert which is a HUGE disappointment.
>> - The flap to reveal the connector port for charging is difficult to
>> open and I could honestly see the flap breaking off eventually.
>>     
>
> Yes.  I should have mentioned that.  It is absurd.  I think it is a tactic 
> to help them to sell the magnetic chargers (which do not come with a wire, 
> and so I will return mine if they won't give me a free wire).  One tip -- 
> pop out the keypad, it is way easier to reach the connector cover.  On the 
> bright side, the cover stays very flush with the side of the phone which 
> looks good and helps to keep it from popping open accidentally.
>
>   
Yup, I figured that one out, but still annoying.  Design-wise, putting a
connector on the bottom would be challenging, but they could have
engineered a better connector cover.
>   
>> - The connector looks like a micro USB port, but is some proprietary
>> connector.
>>     
>
> Exactly.  Definitely annoying.  it would have been sweet if they had used 
> the ordinary mini-USB (I don't know what it's really called) that most 
> cameras seem to be using these days.
>
>
>   
>> - Most of the time it feels like the touch screen is not accurate... it
>> thinks my figure is like 5 pixels below where I clicked.
>>     
>
> Oh -- maybe that is why I seem to have trouble sometimes clicking on 
> links.  I'll be watching for that.  The old Palms used to have you click 
> on certain positions for calibration.  Maybe they need to return to that.
>
>
>   
>> - The first day I had it, it would arbitrarily reboot.  That hasn't
>> happened since I updated the phone.
>>     
>
> That is very bad, but what does "updated the phone" mean?  Is there an 
> update for the software already?  It's been out for two days.
>
>   
Yup, there's already an update for the Pre.  It's a pretty big download
as I recall, but the upgrade went smooth.
>   
>> - A fully charged battery with WIFI and bluetooth on drained about 25%
>> while I slept for 8 hours.
>>     
>
> Yes, the battery doesn't hold up all that well, or the processor uses a 
> lot of battery.  Either way, you have to charge it pretty often.  I leave 
> plugged into the charger overnight.  You could also put it in "Airplane 
> Mode" to save battery if you were traveling or soemthing (I assume that 
> would work but I haven't tried it).
>
>
>   
>> - There is a bit of slowness with the UI, especially when launching apps.
>>     
>
> I wasn't thinking of it that way, but it does take something like 3-4 
> seconds to open the calendar, for example.  I guess that doesn't bother me 
> because I haven't been using an iPhone.
>
>   
iPhone can be slow at times too.  It's just a pet peeve.  I want all
computing devices to compute faster than I think so that I have more
time to do stupid things like Twitter.
>   
>> - The best way to sync contacts is with your Gmail contacts which I had
>> to first get my contacts into Gmail (which took a long time).  You can't
>> use iTunes to sync contacts.
>>     
>
> This is an interesting issue.  I haven't studied it fully yet, but I think 
> there is a lot of flexibility in this area which is nice, but it means 
> more work getting to the bottom of how it works.  I think you can back 
> everything up to your PC, or to Sprint's web, or you can back contacts and 
> calendar to Google, and various combinations also seem to be possible. 
> This definitely causes problems, but maybe it also creates opportunities 
> to do cool things I couldn't do otherwise.
>
>
>   
>> - The phone looks like a symmetrical stone... in a dark office, I often
>> somehow manage to pick up the phone upside down.
>>     
>
> True.  One cool thing (or annoying thing, possibly) is that if you hold it 
> upside down, it will show web pages upside down so that they are 
> right-side up.
>
>
>   
>> - The web browser is clunkier than the iPhone's.
>> - The max ringtone volume is still hard to hear when the phone is in
>> your pocket.  Maybe I'm just getting old.
>>     
>
> You are right.  David Pogue said the same thing.  I guess you can add 
> ringtones and maybe those can be made louder.  Not sure.  Definitely 
> another limitation.
>
>
>   
>> - No visual voicemail.  Calling up and hearing "1 new voicemail message"
>> from some number that I haven't memorized is worthless.
>>     
>
> I'm not sure I understand this.  This is a Sprint problem, no?  Do you 
> mean that Sprint's voicemail won't tell you the name of the caller?
>
>   
If you've never used an iPhone or never heard of Visual Voicemail, it's
totally awesome.  It downloads and lists all voicemails and who the call
is from.  Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqnhm8yfTqM
>   
>> - Makes a distorted noise when using my Jawbone bluetooth headset before
>> and after calls.
>> - It's probably a matter of time before the Pre doesn't work with
>> iTunes.  Right now, it is detected as an iPod v1.0.
>>     
>
> Maybe it will be a perpetual battle with Apple trying to detect the Pre 
> and deny it access and the Pre trying to fake iTunes into thinking it is 
> an iPod.  The Pre works with a certain version of iTunes but we don't know 
> what will happen.  It doesn't happen to bother me because I don't use 
> iTunes.
>
>
>   
>> - The address book lists all of the contacts and their phone numbers
>> making the list very long and visually hard to find who I want to call.
>>     
>
> Do you want only some of your contacts to appear?  I'm not clear on what 
> the issue is here.  So far I haven't found a way to make a short 
> speed-dial list.  Is that not doable?  If not, that is a major 
> shortcoming.  If they think they can sell that to me, they are wrong.
>
>
>   
>> - You can't add/edit contacts while in the phone's address book.  You
>> need to leave the phone app and go into the contacts app.
>>     
>
> Weird.  I'm not understanding this aspect of their design.  If the phone 
> list is different from the contacts list, how is the phone list generated 
> and edited?  How do I control it?
>
>   
I just found out that if you're in the phone app, dial the number, you
can add a contact based on the number.  The iPhone's contact list is
accessibly only through the phone app.  The Pre's phone app only lists
contacts, there's a separate contacts app for managing them.  Basically
this is a training issue.
>   
>> - Instead of a "settings" area, they have a separate app for configuring
>> bluetooth, device info, wifi, sounds, wallpaper, security, etc.
>>     
>
> Good point.
>
>
>   
>> - No SDK... yet.
>>     
>
> I assume that is coming soon.  They want to have a lot of developers.
>
>
>   
>> Things that don't suck
>> - Feels comfortable next to your ear.
>> - Sprints plans are cheaper than AT&T's.
>> - Sprint has better signal at my house in Shakopee.
>> - The gestures are fun.
>> - Best Palm phone so far.
>> - In my opinion, best Sprint phone so far.
>> - Feels smaller in my pocket compared to the iPhone.
>> - The camera flash LED is nice.
>> - When plugged in, it can show up as a external drive.
>> - You can update the phone without a computer.
>> - There is some new innovative UI, but most of it was copied from the iPhone.
>> - When the SDK does come out, it will work on Linux!  And you don't have
>> to code in Objective-C!
>>
>> I'm sure there's a list of other things that rock or suck with the Pre.
>>     
>
> It would be interesting to hear more about ways that it compares with 
> iPhone.  I've never owned an iPhone.  iPhone doesn't have a hardware 
> keypad.  I don't mind that Pre copies iPhone UI!  ;-)
>
>
>   
>> Despite AT&T's network being crap in my area, I'm going to switch back 
>> to AT&T and get a iPhone 3GS.  The 16GB model is the same price as the 
>> Pre and has lots of nice features.  Only 6 months until AT&T adds a new 
>> tower to my area that should make the signal better.
>>
>> Now the question is how do I return the Pre and switch back to AT&T 
>> without losing my phone number?
>>     
>
> Is that a problem?  I think you can return it within 30 days.  Can't you 
> always keep your number when you change carriers?  Didn't you keep your 
> number when you switched to Sprint from AT&T?
>
>   
I don't know if it will be a problem... I don't know if I talk to AT&T
first, then Sprint, or vice versa.  Yes, there's a 30 day return
policy.  Probably a restocking fee too.  I did port my number, I just
don't want lose it when I port it back.  I'm sure it's not an issue, but
I'll have to sort it out with them first.
>   
>> P.S. Once I'm back on my iPhone, I'll be using Touch Term
>> (http://www.freshapps.com/touch-term/) to SSH into my Linux boxes.
>>     
>
> Nice.  We need something like that for Pre (preferrably free).
>
> Thanks again for all of the comments about the Pre.  I'm sure this will 
> help me a lot while I'm working on figuring out all of its intricacies.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   

-Chris


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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 01:11:35 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 01:11:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Chris Barber wrote:

> Doesn't take long for this thread to grow like wild fire.  Inlined...

It's a good topic.  People who don't like it can delete it.  Mostly it is 
about software and hardware design issues for handheld devices.


> I am unable to easily slide open the phone, navigate to the phone app, 
> find a contact, and call them using one hand while driving.

I think the "slide open the phone" with one hand (to reveal the keypad?) 
is hard.  Finding a contact is a mess right now.  The old Treo method 
where you type the initials is pretty great, and they should bring that 
back.  I don't know what they are thinking.  Thanks for pointing that out.


> The iPhone allows you to define "favorites" and then it's a simple click 
> and it's dialing.  I search the Pre for a way to bind a contact to a 
> number, but couldn't find a way and besides that solution sucks since I 
> need to memorize who "1" is linked to.  The main contact list on the 
> iPhone is also nice since it lists just names, no numbers, you click a 
> name, then pick which number you want (i.e. work, mobile, home, etc). 
> The iPhones contact list also has a quick scroll area on the right side 
> that is basically a vertical bar of each letter in the alphabet and you 
> can scroll with it to get all the way down to the bottom real quickly.

There is a problem with the way things are organized on the Pre.  It has 
to create some kind of folder/directory system for hierarchicaly 
organizing stuff.  With contacts, all contacts were labeled as being a 
certain type on PalmOS and you could add types.  Where is that now?  It 
would be nice to have.  The speed dial I used to have also is missing. 
You are right -- having to remember the number is the wrong way to go. 
It works for maybe 4 numbers and then you'll start forgetting which is 
which.  They have to fix this.


> Yup, I figured that one out, but still annoying.  Design-wise, putting a 
> connector on the bottom would be challenging, but they could have 
> engineered a better connector cover.

When I figured out that *that* was the connector cover, I could hardly 
believe it -- how do you get it off?  You'd better not cut your nails too 
short!


>> That is very bad, but what does "updated the phone" mean?  Is there an 
>> update for the software already?  It's been out for two days.
>
> Yup, there's already an update for the Pre.  It's a pretty big download 
> as I recall, but the upgrade went smooth.

Yes, 67 MB, but it ws pretty fast with the WiFi in my house.  Then it took 
about 10 minutes of downtime to get the installation done.  I guess it 
fixed dome bugs and it gave me a clock, a really, really weird looking 
clock in the analog mode.


>>> - No visual voicemail.  Calling up and hearing "1 new voicemail 
>>> message" from some number that I haven't memorized is worthless.
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand this.  This is a Sprint problem, no?  Do you 
>> mean that Sprint's voicemail won't tell you the name of the caller?
>
> If you've never used an iPhone or never heard of Visual Voicemail, it's
> totally awesome.  It downloads and lists all voicemails and who the call
> is from.  Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqnhm8yfTqM

Oh.  Yes, that is nice and no, I guess Sprint/Pre doesn't have that.  My 
guess is that's more of an ATT v. Sprint difference but maybe not.


>> Weird.  I'm not understanding this aspect of their design.  If the 
>> phone list is different from the contacts list, how is the phone list 
>> generated and edited?  How do I control it?
>
> I just found out that if you're in the phone app, dial the number, you 
> can add a contact based on the number.  The iPhone's contact list is 
> accessibly only through the phone app.  The Pre's phone app only lists 
> contacts, there's a separate contacts app for managing them.  Basically 
> this is a training issue.

Right.  I also found that tonight.  We've only had these things for two 
days!


> I don't know if it will be a problem... I don't know if I talk to AT&T 
> first, then Sprint, or vice versa.  Yes, there's a 30 day return policy. 
> Probably a restocking fee too.  I did port my number, I just don't want 
> lose it when I port it back.  I'm sure it's not an issue, but I'll have 
> to sort it out with them first.

It's a pain switching around, but I have to think that you can keep your 
number.  There is some kind of law protecting that for you -- it was 
probably an antitrust issue.

Mike


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 08:39:24 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:39:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090832500.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

By the way, I think the Pre came out now because it is almost the two-year 
anniversary of the release of the iPhone, so the 2-year contracts are 
ending and iPhone users are free to leave their AT&T contracts for Sprint, 
if they want to do that.  Unfortunately, the Pre would have had a few more 
neat software features (e.g., better contact management) if they'd had a 
little more time, but they were in a mad rush to get it out.  That's my 
theory.

The first iPhone came out on June 29, 2007.  The 3G S comes out on June 
19, 2009.  The schedule obviously is governed by the contract period.

Mike


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Jun  9 09:03:01 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:03:01 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090832500.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090832500.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0906090703t43107505jdbc877f54c262a47@mail.gmail.com>

Of course we all know that the new Blackberries, like my Bold, are much
better than either one, and more secure by a long shot. =)
*
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it*


On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Mike Miller
<mbmiller+l at gmail.com<mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> By the way, I think the Pre came out now because it is almost the two-year
> anniversary of the release of the iPhone, so the 2-year contracts are
> ending and iPhone users are free to leave their AT&T contracts for Sprint,
> if they want to do that.  Unfortunately, the Pre would have had a few more
> neat software features (e.g., better contact management) if they'd had a
> little more time, but they were in a mad rush to get it out.  That's my
> theory.
>
> The first iPhone came out on June 29, 2007.  The 3G S comes out on June
> 19, 2009.  The schedule obviously is governed by the contract period.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From jucziz6 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 09:34:37 2009
From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:34:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] www.mn-linux.org error when going to the member page
Message-ID: <81675d140906090734k719527e1u19a790c2ad0a6421@mail.gmail.com>

Just wondering if anyone was aware that new members cannot sigh up.

Someone I know showed me this error.

Warning: Can't connect to MySQL server on 'mysql2' (110) in
/usr/httpd/virtual/www.mn-linux.org/html/tclugmembers/include/lib.inc.php
on line 25

Warning: MySQL Connection Failed: Can't connect to MySQL server on
'mysql2' (110) in
/usr/httpd/virtual/www.mn-linux.org/html/tclugmembers/include/lib.inc.php
on line 25
Unable to connect to database


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 11:31:14 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:31:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0906090703t43107505jdbc877f54c262a47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu> 
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090832500.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<38aa5b6a0906090703t43107505jdbc877f54c262a47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091125410.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, J Cruit wrote:

> Of course we all know that the new Blackberries, like my Bold, are much
> better than either one, and more secure by a long shot. =)

Tell us more about that.  I'm interested.  With the Pre, if you lose it, 
you can connect to it remotely and wipe all the data off of it, or so they 
claim.  That should help.  It can be locked to require a password, but I 
haven't done that yet and don't know much about it.

The Pre worked for me because it uses Sprint and because it will run my 
old Palm apps, and also it has lots of cool features.  Except for the 
iPhone I haven't seen other things with such a cool interface, multitouch, 
etc., but I really don't know squat when it comes down to it and would 
love to hear about the Blackberry if you really think it is a great 
device.  What can it do that the iPhone can't do?

In the so-called religious wars (e.g., emacs v. vi) I have noticed that 
the proponents of a thing (program, OS, device, etc.) generally know a lot 
about that thing but little about the opponent's thing.  I admit that I 
don't know things, so any flames will generate at least as much light as 
heat for me.  I'm always willing to learn more!

Mike


From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com  Tue Jun  9 15:14:22 2009
From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:14:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091125410.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090832500.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<38aa5b6a0906090703t43107505jdbc877f54c262a47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091125410.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20090609150053.02638f38@pop.mm.com>

Having owned or used neither the Palm Pre nor the iPhone, I have no 
dog in this fight.  I'll just toss in this article that crossed my 
path the other day:

FIVE REASONS THE PALM PRE WON'T PREVAIL
By David Coursey | PC World | 2-Jun-2009
http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/five-reasons-palm-pre-wont-prevail-733


5. Palm is, effectively, a startup.

4. Multitasking is not yet a must-have feature for the masses.

3. Palm doesn't have lots of experience with developers.

2. The Pre's keyboard could be its undoing.

1. Palm doesn't have the financing to effectively compete.



From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Jun  9 16:03:42 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:03:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20090609150053.02638f38@pop.mm.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Dean.Benjamin at mm.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:14 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
>
>
> Having owned or used neither the Palm Pre nor the iPhone, I have no
> dog in this fight.  I'll just toss in this article that crossed my
> path the other day:
>
> FIVE REASONS THE PALM PRE WON'T PREVAIL
> By David Coursey | PC World | 2-Jun-2009
> http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/five-reasons-palm-pre-wont-prevail-733

Why is "prevail" relevant?  Simply having a Palm OS smartphone with modern features is a sufficient niche as far as I'm concerned.
I don't want thumb keyboards or any Apple/Mac products.  My old Sprint 3G smartphone is primitive in some ways, but it does the job
I need, and I use the free 3G modem "loophole" for internet access often enough to care.

Does the Palm Pre still allow the free 3G modem loophole on the Sprint network?

Do iPhones and Blackberries provide free 3G modem service for laptops?


Chuck

>



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 18:23:49 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:23:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20090609150053.02638f38@pop.mm.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090832500.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<38aa5b6a0906090703t43107505jdbc877f54c262a47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091125410.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20090609150053.02638f38@pop.mm.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091703370.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Dean.Benjamin at mm.com wrote:

> Having owned or used neither the Palm Pre nor the iPhone, I have no dog 
> in this fight.  I'll just toss in this article that crossed my path the 
> other day:
>
> FIVE REASONS THE PALM PRE WON'T PREVAIL
> By David Coursey | PC World | 2-Jun-2009
> http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/five-reasons-palm-pre-wont-prevail-733
>
>
> 5. Palm is, effectively, a startup.
>
> 4. Multitasking is not yet a must-have feature for the masses.
>
> 3. Palm doesn't have lots of experience with developers.
>
> 2. The Pre's keyboard could be its undoing.
>
> 1. Palm doesn't have the financing to effectively compete.


I don't know about "prevailing" -- does that mean crushing all 
competition?  I don't want that to happen.  If the phone continues to work 
for 2 years, I'll be quite happy.  If it works for one year, that's 
enough.

I just read the article.  I don't expect Palm to overtake Apple, so I 
agree with that idea (did someone think otherwise).  I guess I'm not 
understanding the point about multitasking.  Having two things open at 
once matters because of what?  I don't use them at exactly the same time, 
but I like that the state of the browser is the same when I return to it 
after a phone call and I don't have to my surfing expedition from scratch. 
So if iPhone can't do that, it has a problem, and if that is 
"multitasking" then I think the author is very wrong in thinking that 
people don't need that -- I could give lots of examples.

The idea about developers is kinda weird.  I think the development system 
on this phone will be excellent and it will attract developers in large 
numbers.  I guess that's just my prediction but it is based on the fact 
that development is done using HTML, CSS and JavaScript, and "everyone" 
knows how to code in those systems.

For what it's worth, Palm is using Amazon's music store.  They are 
promoting it.  They told us that the Pre cannot play tunes with Apple's 
DRM and we should just rip our own CDs or use Amazon.  They have a Pandora 
app that they say the Pandora people coded in a week, and it works great.

Anyway, my feeling is that the Pre is just another piece of technology and 
if I weren't currently looking to dump the old Treo, I wouldn't be all 
that interested.  It's like an iPhone, only different, and it isn't a huge 
step forward, at least not yet.  It's a good little device though I've 
already detected some flaws.

It still would be nice to hear more about Blackberrry.

Mike


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 19:38:25 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:38:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:

> I need, and I use the free 3G modem "loophole" for internet access often 
> enough to care.
>
> Does the Palm Pre still allow the free 3G modem loophole on the Sprint 
> network?
>
> Do iPhones and Blackberries provide free 3G modem service for laptops?


Good questions!  I never tried the 3G loophole and I don't know if the Pre 
can do it.  Is there a web page on how to make it work?  (Perhaps with a 
different device.)  If so, I can try it.


By the way, I find it interesting that some people seem to see this 
discussion as a kind of contest.  It may be a contest for Apple and Palm, 
or for Sprint and AT&T, because every customer goes to only one of the two 
(a zero sum game), but for me to own a certain phone is not part of a 
contest against other phone owners.  If someone has a phone with much 
better features than my phone has, that is good to know about, but I have 
not in any sense been "defeated"!  ;-)  Whenever I want a different phone, 
I'll go buy one.  I want to know about other phones because I might want 
to buy another phone (and I definitely will need another phone *someday*), 
not because I want to establish my dominance in the world of phone 
ownership!  ;-)

Mike


From luuxuanlam at gmail.com  Tue Jun  9 23:22:35 2009
From: luuxuanlam at gmail.com (Lam Luu)
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:22:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 11 is available
Message-ID: <4A2F350B.5070807@gmail.com>

Dear Fedora fellow users and all GNU/Linux friends,

Fedora 11 IS LIVE!!!!!!!!! Long live Fedora Project! Start upgrading now!

Happy upgrading! (Hope Fedora 11 will NOT screw up my configurations; 
cross fingers)


From bob at grunners.com  Tue Jun  9 23:45:18 2009
From: bob at grunners.com (Bob De Mars)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:45:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091125410.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081433390.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2D8296.8070009@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906081643470.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A2DC84A.9010807@cb1inc.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090009460.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906090832500.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<38aa5b6a0906090703t43107505jdbc877f54c262a47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091125410.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB6020D025E2@tardis.LCL.local>





-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:31 AM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Palm Pre

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, J Cruit wrote:

>> Of course we all know that the new Blackberries, like my Bold, are much
>> better than either one, and more secure by a long shot. =)
>

Regarding Blackberries, I recently migrated from (flame retardant suit activated) Exchange 2003 to 2007 at work, and I am sad to report Blackberries BIS service doesn't work with Exchange 2007 (active sync).  I was surprised by this, as I have been pushing these units (since they worked so well with our 2003 exchange servers).  After doing some research on this, it appeared that one carrier seemed to have it working, but none of the carriers of the BB's I maintain do.  It seems BB is trying to push their enterprise server instead.  For kicks I requested a quote for the BB Enterprise server, and the price was a bit high.  $8000.00 for 5 users.  I'm not sure if that price includes Vaseline or not so I decided against it.

I guess my rant is more from the corporate side of things.  Sure the BB Bold is a bad ass situation, but if it can't handle M$ active sync or a Outlook web access hack then they are loosing market share in the biz world.  I think people are reluctant to dish out the cash required for the BB enterprise server while other phone can utilize active sync with a simple data plan.  I was surprised how may complaints about this I found while researching.

Currently BB's work around for the Exchange 07 issue (Exchange 2010 beta is out as well, and BB looks to have no intension of getting that to work without their ent server package either) is to setup some POP3 nonsense with a forwarding rule to your BB email and use your work/exchange address as the "replyto".  That's a load of crap, so I have not mentioned this to tell BB users.

I guess what I am getting at is Blackberry lost a lot of stock the day I realized they don't work with Exchange 07 active sync.  I liked Blackberries.  Most of my BB flock have moved on now to Iphones, and a handful of other devices.  I am down to 3 BB users, and a clown with a Verizon XV6800 (which for the record has been a pile of crap since the guy purchased it).  I have one exchange 03 server running for these 4 people, but that wont last much longer.

Enough about phone.  Forgive the M$ speak.

SLACKWARE RULES!!!

Bob

>Tell us more about that.  I'm interested.  With the Pre, if you lose it,
>you can connect to it remotely and wipe all the data off of it, or so they
>claim.  That should help.  It can be locked to require a password, but I
>haven't done that yet and don't know much about it.
>
>The Pre worked for me because it uses Sprint and because it will run my
>old Palm apps, and also it has lots of cool features.  Except for the
>iPhone I haven't seen other things with such a cool interface, multitouch,
>etc., but I really don't know squat when it comes down to it and would
>love to hear about the Blackberry if you really think it is a great
>device.  What can it do that the iPhone can't do?
>
>In the so-called religious wars (e.g., emacs v. vi) I have noticed that
>the proponents of a thing (program, OS, device, etc.) generally know a lot
>about that thing but little about the opponent's thing.  I admit that I
>don't know things, so any flames will generate at least as much light as
>heat for me.  I'm always willing to learn more!
>
>Mike

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From jack at jacku.com  Tue Jun  9 23:56:55 2009
From: jack at jacku.com (Jack Ungerleider)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:56:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>

I'll pickup the BlackBerry part of this. I use Verizon, but that doesn't
really matter if you go BlackBerry as all of the major carriers have some
version of the current BlackBerry handsets. The current version of the
"traditional" BB would be some version of the Curve or Bold. The main thing
to remember when getting a BlackBerry is that you are effectively getting
two services. Your providers data service which is the carrier and RIM's
BlackBerry backbone that provides the messaging layer for email and BB to BB
messaging. While my 2 year old 8700 doesn't do any of the fancy multi-media
stuff (no camera, no music playback) the newer units do.

My 8700 will work as a modem. Verizon only supports Windows with its
connection manager. I have had it working with xmblackberry in modem mode. I
need to rebuild the software under 64-bit openSUSE 11.1 and get that working
again. (Its not something I use a lot so it will happen when I need it
again.) The main reason I got the BlackBerry is that I was tired of carrying
my personal phone and the companies BB so I got my own and used the
"personal cell phone" option we have at work. I've moved my domain to Google
Apps and there is a BlackBerry mobile gmail client that allows me to get
mail for jacku.com and gmail.com by simply selecting the account. At work we
have Exchange 2003 and a Blackberry Enterprise Server. (It was in-place when
I got there so I don't know what we paid for it. But we're a non-profit so
we get charity pricing.)

My favorite app on the BB is Google Maps. I don't pay Verizon to unlock the
GPS so I just use the Google Maps "current location" feature that works of
the cell towers. Its great when traveling by train. When you wake up in the
middle of the night because the train stops with a jolt you can figure out
where you are.  Do to paperwork snafus my "New every two" doesn't come up
until December. I'll look at the Storm and the Curve (or what ever is
current) at that time and probably replace my current unit. FWIW I
personally hate the Pearl series. I want my full thumb keyboard not some odd
two letter per key thing that the Pearls have.

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Mike Miller
<mbmiller+l at gmail.com<mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > I need, and I use the free 3G modem "loophole" for internet access often
> > enough to care.
> >
> > Does the Palm Pre still allow the free 3G modem loophole on the Sprint
> > network?
> >
> > Do iPhones and Blackberries provide free 3G modem service for laptops?
>
>
> Good questions!  I never tried the 3G loophole and I don't know if the Pre
> can do it.  Is there a web page on how to make it work?  (Perhaps with a
> different device.)  If so, I can try it.
>
>
> By the way, I find it interesting that some people seem to see this
> discussion as a kind of contest.  It may be a contest for Apple and Palm,
> or for Sprint and AT&T, because every customer goes to only one of the two
> (a zero sum game), but for me to own a certain phone is not part of a
> contest against other phone owners.  If someone has a phone with much
> better features than my phone has, that is good to know about, but I have
> not in any sense been "defeated"!  ;-)  Whenever I want a different phone,
> I'll go buy one.  I want to know about other phones because I might want
> to buy another phone (and I definitely will need another phone *someday*),
> not because I want to establish my dominance in the world of phone
> ownership!  ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From miyabo at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 01:36:34 2009
From: miyabo at gmail.com (Daniel Feldman)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:36:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41f54da20906092336r4563ab7cq7477c2507505ba17@mail.gmail.com>

All this discussion of iPhone vs. Pre vs. Blackberry, and not a single
mention of Google Android? Android is a cell phone OS that consists of
Java-based phone software on top of ARM Linux. The whole shebang is
open source and extremely hackable -- you can write your own GPS
software, or install Emacs! And it even makes phone calls.

I'm quite happy with my HTC G1, one of the two Android phones
available now. I wouldn't recommend it to my non-geek friends, who
might not put up with the occasional glitch. But it's a lot of fun for
us curious folk who like to fiddle with our phones.


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 01:39:31 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:39:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906100136410.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I just found out that my cousin's son is the guy who led development of 
the new compass app on the iPhone.  Maybe I should feel bad for buying the 
Pre.  Well, there's still time to return it if I decide the iPhone is 
better.

Mike


From srcfoo at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 12:51:15 2009
From: srcfoo at gmail.com (Eric Peterson)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:51:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>
	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com> wrote:

>  Or use Comcast Business class and get good speed, static ips, no bandwidth
> limits and no packet shaping.  It's like $70/mo with a 1 year contract.
> Totally worth it.
>


Chris,

What up/down do you get for $70/mo? Last time I checked it out it was
$120/mo. and the download rate was way below the standard residential. Glad
to hear it's improved.

EP
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From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 13:00:42 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:00:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>
	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>
	<579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70906101100s770a86d2kb3f92ec57a65779@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Eric Peterson<srcfoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Or use Comcast Business class and get good speed, static ips, no bandwidth
>> limits and no packet shaping.? It's like $70/mo with a 1 year contract.
>> Totally worth it.
>
>
> Chris,
>
> What up/down do you get for $70/mo? Last time I checked it out it was
> $120/mo. and the download rate was way below the standard residential. Glad
> to hear it's improved.
>
> EP
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


We're paying $95/mo for 16Mb/2Mb with a static IP.  That tier isn't
offered anymore but I was told for $10/mo we could get 22Mb/5Mb.  We
consistently get way above our purchased rate so I didn't bother with
the extra $10 until we really need that extra bandwidth up.

-- 
Donovan Niesen


From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Wed Jun 10 13:08:11 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:08:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>
	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>
	<579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0AB95236-4FEF-4258-8483-4077957E38A9@secure-computing.net>

On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Eric Peterson wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com>  
> wrote:
> Or use Comcast Business class and get good speed, static ips, no  
> bandwidth limits and no packet shaping.  It's like $70/mo with a 1  
> year contract.  Totally worth it.
>
>
> Chris,
>
> What up/down do you get for $70/mo? Last time I checked it out it  
> was $120/mo. and the download rate was way below the standard  
> residential. Glad to hear it's improved.


I have 16/2 which I pay $52.00/month for and another $20 for a /28 of  
static IPs.
---
Eric Crist






From stuff at cb1inc.com  Wed Jun 10 13:24:28 2009
From: stuff at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:24:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <0AB95236-4FEF-4258-8483-4077957E38A9@secure-computing.net>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>	<579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<0AB95236-4FEF-4258-8483-4077957E38A9@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <4A2FFA5C.1060700@cb1inc.com>

I just did a bandwidth test using http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/. 
My download speed is 28,998kbps and upload is 6,864kbps from the Chicago
server.  23,694kbps down and 4,087kbps up to the Seattle server.  These
numbers aren't 100% accurate since I am uploading some backups while
performing the tests.

I was originally a Time Warner Cable business class customer and I paid
$120 per month.  I called Comcast a little over a year ago and was going
to cancel my business class since I didn't need the static IPs anymore,
but they said I was on the old TWC rates.  I just needed to sign a 1
year contract (which is a no brainer... I **NEED** internet access) and
now I pay $70/mo and get 5 static IPs.  Since it's business class
service, should anything go wrong, they can send out a guy within 24
hours... usually much, much, much sooner than that.

I'm very happy with Comcast and highly recommend the business class service!

-Chris

Eric P: sorry, emailed the list from the wrong email address and it got
bounced... gave me a chance to change some of my original email.



Eric F Crist wrote:
> On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Eric Peterson wrote:
>
>   
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com>  
>> wrote:
>> Or use Comcast Business class and get good speed, static ips, no  
>> bandwidth limits and no packet shaping.  It's like $70/mo with a 1  
>> year contract.  Totally worth it.
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> What up/down do you get for $70/mo? Last time I checked it out it  
>> was $120/mo. and the download rate was way below the standard  
>> residential. Glad to hear it's improved.
>>     
>
>
> I have 16/2 which I pay $52.00/month for and another $20 for a /28 of  
> static IPs.
> ---
> Eric Crist
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   

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From drue at therub.org  Wed Jun 10 13:31:47 2009
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:31:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <4A2FFA5C.1060700@cb1inc.com>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>
	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>
	<579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<0AB95236-4FEF-4258-8483-4077957E38A9@secure-computing.net>
	<4A2FFA5C.1060700@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <20090610183147.GA27627@therub.org>

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 01:24:28PM -0500, Chris Barber wrote:
>    I just did a bandwidth test using [1]http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/.
>    My download speed is 28,998kbps and upload is 6,864kbps from the Chicago
>    server.  23,694kbps down and 4,087kbps up to the Seattle server.  These
>    numbers aren't 100% accurate since I am uploading some backups while
>    performing the tests.

I'm pretty sure comcast games these tests.  Try uploading and
downloading a large file for more accurate numbers.

Dan


From kris.browne at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 13:45:57 2009
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (kristopher browne)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:45:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <4A2FFA5C.1060700@cb1inc.com>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>	<579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<0AB95236-4FEF-4258-8483-4077957E38A9@secure-computing.net>
	<4A2FFA5C.1060700@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <F89BB1DC-6CBD-4A8F-A0D7-34C41FAF0C57@gmail.com>

I'm in NE Mpls, not too far from Fridley.

I just did a Speakeasy test from my house on a whim, without any  
special prep (Which means I still have torrents going in the  
background and my wife is downloading things) and I hit 15341 down and  
7334 up. We have the basic home service here, I consider that pretty  
successful. I don't like Comcast's pricing or business practices  
sometimes, but it's hard to disagree with their speed.

Kristopher Browne
kris.browne at gmail.com
kris.browne at me.com
612-353-6969 - Home
612-408-4431 - Cell
http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

On Jun 10, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Chris Barber wrote:

> I just did a bandwidth test using http://www.speakeasy.net/ 
> speedtest/.  My download speed is 28,998kbps and upload is 6,864kbps  
> from the Chicago server.  23,694kbps down and 4,087kbps up to the  
> Seattle server.  These numbers aren't 100% accurate since I am  
> uploading some backups while performing the tests.
>
> I was originally a Time Warner Cable business class customer and I  
> paid $120 per month.  I called Comcast a little over a year ago and  
> was going to cancel my business class since I didn't need the static  
> IPs anymore, but they said I was on the old TWC rates.  I just  
> needed to sign a 1 year contract (which is a no brainer... I  
> **NEED** internet access) and now I pay $70/mo and get 5 static  
> IPs.  Since it's business class service, should anything go wrong,  
> they can send out a guy within 24 hours... usually much, much, much  
> sooner than that.
>
> I'm very happy with Comcast and highly recommend the business class  
> service!
>
> -Chris
>
> Eric P: sorry, emailed the list from the wrong email address and it  
> got bounced... gave me a chance to change some of my original email.
>
>
>
> Eric F Crist wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Eric Peterson wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Chris Barber <stuff at cb1inc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Or use Comcast Business class and get good speed, static ips, no
>>> bandwidth limits and no packet shaping.  It's like $70/mo with a 1
>>> year contract.  Totally worth it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>>
>>> What up/down do you get for $70/mo? Last time I checked it out it
>>> was $120/mo. and the download rate was way below the standard
>>> residential. Glad to hear it's improved.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I have 16/2 which I pay $52.00/month for and another $20 for a /28 of
>> static IPs.
>> ---
>> Eric Crist
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed Jun 10 15:42:22 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:42:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <F89BB1DC-6CBD-4A8F-A0D7-34C41FAF0C57@gmail.com>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>	<579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com><0AB95236-4FEF-4258-8483-4077957E38A9@secure-computing.net><4A2FFA5C.1060700@cb1inc.com>
	<F89BB1DC-6CBD-4A8F-A0D7-34C41FAF0C57@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86971925D2BC4EAD98BBDA59A47950DF@usicorp.usinternet.com>

Not to be a conspiracy theorists but it seems Comcast sometimes sells the
high speed bit to assuage people from the other not-so-nice things they do
from time to time. Here is a recent report (now with an update that it's no
longer happening) about DNS interception by Comcast. 

http://comcastisfuckingwithyourport53traffic.wordpress.com/

 

Also there are ways for Comcast to very easily uncap traffic to the
bandwidth speed test sites to make it look better than it really is (not
saying they are doing this, I don't use Comcast). Similar to another that
had posted is a better means to test real bandwidth would be to transfer
several large files at the same time and combine the transfer rate of all to
get your best reading on actual throughput performance with the expectation
that the remote side(s) is/are not under load during your test. 

 

There are tons (probably not as many tons as a few years ago) of DSL ISPs in
the area that can handle Qwest DSL lines.

 

This is not in Fridley but Richfield (and possibly St Louis Park soon after)
are going to be going thru some fiber to the home (FTTH) pilots in the near
future. 

Get the triple play service over fiber directly to your home, could be
pretty awesome.

 

  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of kristopher browne
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:46 PM
To: TC Linux User Group
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?

 

I'm in NE Mpls, not too far from Fridley.

 

I just did a Speakeasy test from my house on a whim, without any special
prep (Which means I still have torrents going in the background and my wife
is downloading things) and I hit 15341 down and 7334 up. We have the basic
home service here, I consider that pretty successful. I don't like Comcast's
pricing or business practices sometimes, but it's hard to disagree with
their speed.

 

Kristopher Browne

kris.browne at gmail.com

kris.browne at me.com

612-353-6969 - Home

612-408-4431 - Cell

http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

 

On Jun 10, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Chris Barber wrote:





I just did a bandwidth test using http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/.  My
download speed is 28,998kbps and upload is 6,864kbps from the Chicago
server.  23,694kbps down and 4,087kbps up to the Seattle server.  These
numbers aren't 100% accurate since I am uploading some backups while
performing the tests.

I was originally a Time Warner Cable business class customer and I paid $120
per month.  I called Comcast a little over a year ago and was going to
cancel my business class since I didn't need the static IPs anymore, but
they said I was on the old TWC rates.  I just needed to sign a 1 year
contract (which is a no brainer... I **NEED** internet access) and now I pay
$70/mo and get 5 static IPs.  Since it's business class service, should
anything go wrong, they can send out a guy within 24 hours... usually much,
much, much sooner than that.

I'm very happy with Comcast and highly recommend the business class service!

-Chris

Eric P: sorry, emailed the list from the wrong email address and it got
bounced... gave me a chance to change some of my original email.



Eric F Crist wrote: 

On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Eric Peterson wrote:
 
  

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Chris Barber  <mailto:stuff at cb1inc.com>
<stuff at cb1inc.com>  
wrote:
Or use Comcast Business class and get good speed, static ips, no  
bandwidth limits and no packet shaping.  It's like $70/mo with a 1  
year contract.  Totally worth it.
 
 
Chris,
 
What up/down do you get for $70/mo? Last time I checked it out it  
was $120/mo. and the download rate was way below the standard  
residential. Glad to hear it's improved.
    

 
 
I have 16/2 which I pay $52.00/month for and another $20 for a /28 of  
static IPs.
---
Eric Crist
 
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
  

 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

 

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Jun 10 16:19:27 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:19:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Internet Options in Fridley, MN?
In-Reply-To: <20090610183147.GA27627@therub.org>
References: <lZRsgcLR.1244472699.6525060.a.kuriger@localhost>
	<4A2D4EB4.6010001@cb1inc.com>
	<579c6fd30906101051l7a812c65v25bbd02f6c2902d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<0AB95236-4FEF-4258-8483-4077957E38A9@secure-computing.net>
	<4A2FFA5C.1060700@cb1inc.com> <20090610183147.GA27627@therub.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906101613280.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Dan Rue wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 01:24:28PM -0500, Chris Barber wrote:
>>    I just did a bandwidth test using [1]http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/.
>>    My download speed is 28,998kbps and upload is 6,864kbps from the Chicago
>>    server.  23,694kbps down and 4,087kbps up to the Seattle server.  These
>>    numbers aren't 100% accurate since I am uploading some backups while
>>    performing the tests.
>
> I'm pretty sure comcast games these tests.  Try uploading and
> downloading a large file for more accurate numbers.


I also had that impression, but it is a fair kind of game.  I think they 
give you more bandwidth for the first bit of upload/download and then 
throttle it back a bit.  That is really a good thing (obviously?) but it 
would be deceptive for people who care about moving really big files 
(e.g., DVD ISOs).  I say that it is a good thing because it makes most 
everyday use really super fast while keeping total bandwidth usage to a 
reasonable level so that price doesn't jump up too much.

The thing I object to about Comcast is that they seem to operate in 
secret.  They won't just tell you what you can do or can't do, what kinds 
of things they will interfere with, how bandwidth really works, etc. 
We've seen this many times from them (e.g., people accuse them of things 
which they deny).  They have to be sued or they won't admit anything. 
It's a little troubling.  I could be wrong but this is the impression I've 
been getting in the past couple of years.

Mike


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Jun 10 17:43:22 2009
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:43:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200906102243.n5AMhMx03709@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Internet Exposure Garage-less Sale

Internet Exposure is clearing out some servers and workstations along with other assorted hardware.

The sale will be two days:

Thursday 6/11/09 5:00pm-8:00pm
Saturday 6/13/09 10:00am-2:00pm

A sampling of some of our items

2U servers with SCA backplanes
1U servers SATA/PATA
Assorted Desktops (P3, Athlon XP, Athlon 64, all are AGP)
DDR and SDR Memory
Hard Drives

1101 Washington Ave S
Second Floor
Minneapolis, MN 55415

Entry will be through the back of the building, look for the door with the Garage-less Sale sign and up the stairs to the second floor.



Seller Email address: garagesale at iexposure dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From bob at grunners.com  Thu Jun 11 11:53:17 2009
From: bob at grunners.com (Bob De Mars)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:53:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  Palm Pre
Message-ID: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB6023448A0E@tardis.LCL.local>

Not to beat a dead horse on this, but this email inspired me to take a look at the blackberry exchange issue again.  I found that they now offer the poor mans version (up to 30 users) of the Ent server - called Blackberry Professional software.  Each cal is a few hundred bucks or so. BB stock went up slightly over here.  It comes with one free cal, so I am going to give it a try.

Forgive the non linux related post, and the top posting....  I just thought there were others out there like me who work in a heterogeneous environment.

Also, I forgot to mention that I think the pre is cool that it supports the active sync situation.

I mentioned the pre to various users here that use diverse handhelds. Every single one had something negative to say about Palm.

Here ends my report.

Again, Slackware has and always will rule....

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bob De Mars
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:45 PM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Palm Pre





-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:31 AM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Palm Pre

On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, J Cruit wrote:

>> Of course we all know that the new Blackberries, like my Bold, are much
>> better than either one, and more secure by a long shot. =)
>

Regarding Blackberries, I recently migrated from (flame retardant suit activated) Exchange 2003 to 2007 at work, and I am sad to report Blackberries BIS service doesn't work with Exchange 2007 (active sync).  I was surprised by this, as I have been pushing these units (since they worked so well with our 2003 exchange servers).  After doing some research on this, it appeared that one carrier seemed to have it working, but none of the carriers of the BB's I maintain do.  It seems BB is trying to push their enterprise server instead.  For kicks I requested a quote for the BB Enterprise server, and the price was a bit high.  $8000.00 for 5 users.  I'm not sure if that price includes Vaseline or not so I decided against it.

I guess my rant is more from the corporate side of things.  Sure the BB Bold is a bad ass situation, but if it can't handle M$ active sync or a Outlook web access hack then they are loosing market share in the biz world.  I think people are reluctant to dish out the cash required for the BB enterprise server while other phone can utilize active sync with a simple data plan.  I was surprised how may complaints about this I found while researching.

Currently BB's work around for the Exchange 07 issue (Exchange 2010 beta is out as well, and BB looks to have no intension of getting that to work without their ent server package either) is to setup some POP3 nonsense with a forwarding rule to your BB email and use your work/exchange address as the "replyto".  That's a load of crap, so I have not mentioned this to tell BB users.

I guess what I am getting at is Blackberry lost a lot of stock the day I realized they don't work with Exchange 07 active sync.  I liked Blackberries.  Most of my BB flock have moved on now to Iphones, and a handful of other devices.  I am down to 3 BB users, and a clown with a Verizon XV6800 (which for the record has been a pile of crap since the guy purchased it).  I have one exchange 03 server running for these 4 people, but that wont last much longer.

Enough about phone.  Forgive the M$ speak.

SLACKWARE RULES!!!

Bob

>Tell us more about that.  I'm interested.  With the Pre, if you lose it,
>you can connect to it remotely and wipe all the data off of it, or so they
>claim.  That should help.  It can be locked to require a password, but I
>haven't done that yet and don't know much about it.
>
>The Pre worked for me because it uses Sprint and because it will run my
>old Palm apps, and also it has lots of cool features.  Except for the
>iPhone I haven't seen other things with such a cool interface, multitouch,
>etc., but I really don't know squat when it comes down to it and would
>love to hear about the Blackberry if you really think it is a great
>device.  What can it do that the iPhone can't do?
>
>In the so-called religious wars (e.g., emacs v. vi) I have noticed that
>the proponents of a thing (program, OS, device, etc.) generally know a lot
>about that thing but little about the opponent's thing.  I admit that I
>don't know things, so any flames will generate at least as much light as
>heat for me.  I'm always willing to learn more!
>
>Mike

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From j at packetgod.com  Thu Jun 11 12:13:30 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:13:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB6023448A0E@tardis.LCL.local>
References: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB6023448A0E@tardis.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0906111013t2436b5berfddefb377bbbee2b@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to send a flame post and never follow back up again but work has been
crazy.  Blackberry to me has always been a very functional and easy to use
system once you get used to it.  It doesn't have all the billions of apps
that the iPhone has but it does have a good number that I love and work for
me including the track my blackberries GPS location, remote wipe, remote
listen (nice for spying), remote make a loud noise so I can find it, and
tonnes of other fun apps.  The bold now gives us a decent camera (with
flash, take that iPhone!) and easy multimedia (just copy mp3s over to the
drive that pops up).  It isn't easily managed in Linux but 95% of things can
be done OTA, the last remaining hold out is upgrading the OS.

Plus on the security factor the full central management of the system
including remote policy push for passwords, locking and all that fun stuff
is cool.  Plus the entire disk is encrypted unlike the iphone where not only
is it not able to be fully encrypted but we can fairly easily break into the
file system even on a password protected unit and wipe out whatever we want
(including the password file :) ).

So I think from a security factor right now Blackberry wins, I really want
to try out the PamPre and see how it stacks up from a security point of
view.

--j

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Bob De Mars <bob at grunners.com> wrote:

> Not to beat a dead horse on this, but this email inspired me to take a look
> at the blackberry exchange issue again.  I found that they now offer the
> poor mans version (up to 30 users) of the Ent server - called Blackberry
> Professional software.  Each cal is a few hundred bucks or so. BB stock went
> up slightly over here.  It comes with one free cal, so I am going to give it
> a try.
>
> Forgive the non linux related post, and the top posting....  I just thought
> there were others out there like me who work in a heterogeneous environment.
>
> Also, I forgot to mention that I think the pre is cool that it supports the
> active sync situation.
>
> I mentioned the pre to various users here that use diverse handhelds. Every
> single one had something negative to say about Palm.
>
> Here ends my report.
>
> Again, Slackware has and always will rule....
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:
> tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Bob De Mars
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:45 PM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:
> tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:31 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
>
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, J Cruit wrote:
>
> >> Of course we all know that the new Blackberries, like my Bold, are much
> >> better than either one, and more secure by a long shot. =)
> >
>
> Regarding Blackberries, I recently migrated from (flame retardant suit
> activated) Exchange 2003 to 2007 at work, and I am sad to report
> Blackberries BIS service doesn't work with Exchange 2007 (active sync).  I
> was surprised by this, as I have been pushing these units (since they worked
> so well with our 2003 exchange servers).  After doing some research on this,
> it appeared that one carrier seemed to have it working, but none of the
> carriers of the BB's I maintain do.  It seems BB is trying to push their
> enterprise server instead.  For kicks I requested a quote for the BB
> Enterprise server, and the price was a bit high.  $8000.00 for 5 users.  I'm
> not sure if that price includes Vaseline or not so I decided against it.
>
> I guess my rant is more from the corporate side of things.  Sure the BB
> Bold is a bad ass situation, but if it can't handle M$ active sync or a
> Outlook web access hack then they are loosing market share in the biz world.
>  I think people are reluctant to dish out the cash required for the BB
> enterprise server while other phone can utilize active sync with a simple
> data plan.  I was surprised how may complaints about this I found while
> researching.
>
> Currently BB's work around for the Exchange 07 issue (Exchange 2010 beta is
> out as well, and BB looks to have no intension of getting that to work
> without their ent server package either) is to setup some POP3 nonsense with
> a forwarding rule to your BB email and use your work/exchange address as the
> "replyto".  That's a load of crap, so I have not mentioned this to tell BB
> users.
>
> I guess what I am getting at is Blackberry lost a lot of stock the day I
> realized they don't work with Exchange 07 active sync.  I liked
> Blackberries.  Most of my BB flock have moved on now to Iphones, and a
> handful of other devices.  I am down to 3 BB users, and a clown with a
> Verizon XV6800 (which for the record has been a pile of crap since the guy
> purchased it).  I have one exchange 03 server running for these 4 people,
> but that wont last much longer.
>
> Enough about phone.  Forgive the M$ speak.
>
> SLACKWARE RULES!!!
>
> Bob
>
> >Tell us more about that.  I'm interested.  With the Pre, if you lose it,
> >you can connect to it remotely and wipe all the data off of it, or so they
> >claim.  That should help.  It can be locked to require a password, but I
> >haven't done that yet and don't know much about it.
> >
> >The Pre worked for me because it uses Sprint and because it will run my
> >old Palm apps, and also it has lots of cool features.  Except for the
> >iPhone I haven't seen other things with such a cool interface, multitouch,
> >etc., but I really don't know squat when it comes down to it and would
> >love to hear about the Blackberry if you really think it is a great
> >device.  What can it do that the iPhone can't do?
> >
> >In the so-called religious wars (e.g., emacs v. vi) I have noticed that
> >the proponents of a thing (program, OS, device, etc.) generally know a lot
> >about that thing but little about the opponent's thing.  I admit that I
> >don't know things, so any flames will generate at least as much light as
> >heat for me.  I'm always willing to learn more!
> >
> >Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 14:00:29 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:00:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0906111013t2436b5berfddefb377bbbee2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB6023448A0E@tardis.LCL.local>
	<38aa5b6a0906111013t2436b5berfddefb377bbbee2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906111345400.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, J Cruit wrote:

> Sorry to send a flame post and never follow back up again but work has 
> been crazy.  Blackberry to me has always been a very functional and easy 
> to use system once you get used to it.  It doesn't have all the billions 
> of apps that the iPhone has but it does have a good number that I love 
> and work for me including the track my blackberries GPS location, remote 
> wipe, remote listen (nice for spying), remote make a loud noise so I can 
> find it, and tonnes of other fun apps.  The bold now gives us a decent 
> camera (with flash, take that iPhone!) and easy multimedia (just copy 
> mp3s over to the drive that pops up).  It isn't easily managed in Linux 
> but 95% of things can be done OTA, the last remaining hold out is 
> upgrading the OS.

Those are some pretty cool features.  Palm Pre has a flash for the camera 
and it has remote wipe (they tell me), but I'm not sure about some of 
those other cool ideas like remote loud noise, remote listen, tracking GPS 
(it has GPS but I don't know about accessing it remotely, though it 
might do that).

When I plug the Pre into USB to a computer, it pops up three options: 
"sync," "USB drive" and "just charge".  It charges itself while it is 
plugged in.  If I choose USB drive, it becomes an ordinary USB drive while 
it is charging.  While it was a USB drive, I made a directory called 
"Music", copied some MP3 directories into it, and when I went back to 
normal Pre use, the music player had detected all the files and indexed 
them.  That was easy.  It didn't find all of the album covers though -- 
something to work on.

This competition between developer teams will be very good for us!

The Pre has fairly poor battery life.  You will have to charge it every 
night.


> Plus on the security factor the full central management of the system 
> including remote policy push for passwords, locking and all that fun 
> stuff is cool.  Plus the entire disk is encrypted unlike the iphone 
> where not only is it not able to be fully encrypted but we can fairly 
> easily break into the file system even on a password protected unit and 
> wipe out whatever we want (including the password file :) ).
>
> So I think from a security factor right now Blackberry wins, I really 
> want to try out the PamPre and see how it stacks up from a security 
> point of view.

The Blackberry sounds pretty cool in that regard, at least.  Let us know 
what you find out about the Pre.  I have no idea about the encryption 
issues on the Pre.

Mike


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Jun 11 14:10:34 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:10:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB6023448A0E@tardis.LCL.local>
References: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB6023448A0E@tardis.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906111400490.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Bob De Mars wrote:

> I mentioned the pre to various users here that use diverse handhelds. 
> Every single one had something negative to say about Palm.

But what did they have to say?

I had problems with Palm (or was it Handspring at that time?) when I was 
buying the Treo 270 and Treo 300.  They kept sending me things that were 
refurbished and one didn't work *at* *all* out of the box -- it wouldn't 
even power up.  Then they sent me a brand-new one and acted like they were 
doing me a favor.  Why?  I had just paid for a brand new one and it didn't 
work!  They should send me another brand new one to replace it.  But that 
was 7 years ago.  I think they were having trouble meeting demand at the 
time.

Then I got the Treo 600 and had no problems for 5.5 years, and the battery 
is still strong.  I'm giving it to my son next weekend.

It seems like reviews of the Pre are uniformly strongly positive.  I like 
it so far but it is not perfect.  Once it failed to take a charge until 
restarted.  Another time it spontaneously rebooted in the middle of 
something I was doing (playing a ringtone in their list of ringtones).  I 
forgot to charge it last night and it was almost dead in the morning. 
Despite these problems, none of which really hurt me and all of which are 
surmountable (except for spontaneous rebooting, but I don't now how often 
that will happen), I give the device a big thumbs up.  It's a really cool 
little computer/phone -- it looks great, feels great, and it does a lot of 
cool stuff right now without the huge number of apps we expect to see 
soon.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 11 22:56:06 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:56:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906111400490.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEBOCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:11 PM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FW: Palm Pre
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Bob De Mars wrote:
>
> > I mentioned the pre to various users here that use diverse handhelds.
> > Every single one had something negative to say about Palm.
>
> But what did they have to say?

More significantly, did they actually know anything first hand, or were they just Microsoft and Apple droids?

Palm OS was in the first smartphones, and all I've had have allowed use as a modem for getting unlimited internet access for my
laptop at no extra charge (but it's a loophole).  Sprint coverage when doing business travel in the USA is hard to beat.  Some other
brands have not even had towers in many states when their plans and first-level helpers would swear they did.  For me, my Palm OS
based smartphone is cheap, ain't broke, and does nearly everything... plus some stuff I can't get from Mickeysoft or the fruit
house.  I've gone from 1G to 3G in the last ten years of service and can get a replacement phone for about $25 if I bust one (not
easy, but I've done it).


Chuck

> Then I got the Treo 600 and had no problems for 5.5 years, and the battery
> is still strong.  I'm giving it to my son next weekend.
>
> It seems like reviews of the Pre are uniformly strongly positive.  I like
> it so far but it is not perfect. ....





From tclug at jfoo.org  Fri Jun 12 00:45:27 2009
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:45:27 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving home server to the cloud
In-Reply-To: <49FE3772.8080304@jfoo.org>
References: <49FE3772.8080304@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <4A31EB77.7020102@jfoo.org>

John Gateley wrote:
> Hi Y'all,
> 
> I've been running a home server (DNS, e-mail, web server, database)
> for several years. I think it is time to move offsite. Anyone tried
> EC2 for this? It looks like EC2 is a thin layer on top of VMware so
> I could run what I needed.

Hi Y'all,

For those who are curious: I chose linode.com. It seemed to have
the best tradeoff between price, features, and reputation. Slicehost
was more expensive for the same features, and I found several
places cheaper, but they had bad reviews somewhere.

I've been using linode for a week now, connectivity is great,
easy to use, and I'm happy.

j


From jherrick at gmail.com  Fri Jun 12 12:04:38 2009
From: jherrick at gmail.com (Jim Herrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:04:38 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving home server to the cloud
In-Reply-To: <4A31EB77.7020102@jfoo.org>
References: <49FE3772.8080304@jfoo.org> <4A31EB77.7020102@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <82ad773b0906121004n21b4cc3bgce6a5c206212479b@mail.gmail.com>

Ditto.  Over 4 years with Linode and still *very* satisfied.  Plans
range between $20 and $160 a month with many extras available.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:45 AM, John Gateley<tclug at jfoo.org> wrote:

...
> I've been using linode for a week now, connectivity is great,
> easy to use, and I'm happy.


From tclug1 at greatlakedata.com  Sat Jun 13 09:15:22 2009
From: tclug1 at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:15:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving home server to the cloud
In-Reply-To: <82ad773b0906121004n21b4cc3bgce6a5c206212479b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49FE3772.8080304@jfoo.org> <4A31EB77.7020102@jfoo.org>
	<82ad773b0906121004n21b4cc3bgce6a5c206212479b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <429c5ec20906130715x5b35f39fq30e8b344fa83aae4@mail.gmail.com>

i'm a couple years into my $15/mo tektonic.net
VPS<http://tektonic.net/vps.php>,
completely happy.
-g
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From andyschmid at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 09:55:46 2009
From: andyschmid at gmail.com (Andy Schmid)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:55:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving home server to the cloud
In-Reply-To: <82ad773b0906121004n21b4cc3bgce6a5c206212479b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49FE3772.8080304@jfoo.org> <4A31EB77.7020102@jfoo.org>
	<82ad773b0906121004n21b4cc3bgce6a5c206212479b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7b7c42a30906130755y2dc9530fw5ec2886eb33bbb1e@mail.gmail.com>

The cheaper plans at Linode sound like a decent deal, but I'd say once you
start paying 60 a month for additional nodes/features, you could lease an
entire dedicated server with equal or greater specs for around the same
price, if not cheaper.

I lease a server from xlhost.com and they have been really awesome over the
past 3-4 years.

Andy

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Jim Herrick <jherrick at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ditto.  Over 4 years with Linode and still *very* satisfied.  Plans
> range between $20 and $160 a month with many extras available.
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:45 AM, John Gateley<tclug at jfoo.org> wrote:
>
> ...
> > I've been using linode for a week now, connectivity is great,
> > easy to use, and I'm happy.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tpenney at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 12:44:58 2009
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:44:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
Message-ID: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>

Wow. I can't get to visi's st. paul data center... visi.com is down.
can't reach visi on the phone. Anyone have any clue what is going on?
we have a 1/4 rack in the st. paul data center that I can't reach. I
guess I'll drive over there

-- 
Tom Penney
612-920-3562


From tpenney at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 12:47:57 2009
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:47:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c596d0e0906131047v1c052ec2w611ded0ee403d496@mail.gmail.com>

visi.com is up with this:
UPDATE: Power Maintenance Scheduled

Reference: 060509-74657
Summary: Power Maintenance in the VISI St. Paul Data Center
Description:
We have experienced some electrical difficulties during the announced
power system maintenance in the St. Paul Data Center.

Impact:

Some customer and VISI equipment has experienced a loss of power. Xcel
and building techs are both on-site working to resolve the issue, but
we do not yet have an ETA for resolution.

Sincerely,
The VISI Support Team


I still can't reach my rack thogh



On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Tom Penney<tpenney at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow. I can't get to visi's st. paul data center... visi.com is down.
> can't reach visi on the phone. Anyone have any clue what is going on?
> we have a 1/4 rack in the st. paul data center that I can't reach. I
> guess I'll drive over there
>
> --
> Tom Penney
> 612-920-3562
>



-- 
Tom Penney
612-920-3562


From tpenney at gmail.com  Sat Jun 13 12:56:02 2009
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:56:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <4A33E6E3.6000100@ripperd.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A33E6E3.6000100@ripperd.com>
Message-ID: <5c596d0e0906131056o6e6fb6a1le171973a4955f9c3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm on visi dsl too. visi dsl goes though their Minneapolis data
center I believe.


-- 
Tom Penney


From chris at cb1inc.com  Sat Jun 13 12:55:56 2009
From: chris at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:55:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>

Ha, I have a client who's got a 1/4 rack there and their site is down. 
Crazy.

-Chris




Tom Penney wrote:
> Wow. I can't get to visi's st. paul data center... visi.com is down.
> can't reach visi on the phone. Anyone have any clue what is going on?
> we have a 1/4 rack in the st. paul data center that I can't reach. I
> guess I'll drive over there
>
>   
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From dean at ripperd.com  Sat Jun 13 12:50:27 2009
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:50:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A33E6E3.6000100@ripperd.com>

Tom Penney wrote:
> Wow. I can't get to visi's st. paul data center... visi.com is down.
> can't reach visi on the phone. Anyone have any clue what is going on?
> we have a 1/4 rack in the st. paul data center that I can't reach. I
> guess I'll drive over there
> 


I'm on visi DSL, and the 'net seems to be working for me.

This is what I get at www.visi.com:

June 13th, 2009 12:40pm

UPDATE: Power Maintenance Scheduled

Reference: 060509-74657
Summary: Power Maintenance in the VISI St. Paul Data Center
Description:
We have experienced some electrical difficulties during the announced 
power system maintenance in the St. Paul Data Center.

Impact:

Some customer and VISI equipment has experienced a loss of power. Xcel 
and building techs are both on-site working to resolve the issue, but we 
do not yet have an ETA for resolution.

Sincerely,
The VISI Support Team


From sraun at fireopal.org  Sun Jun 14 10:11:40 2009
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:11:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
Message-ID: <E1MFrMy-0007Mc-AF@fireagate.fireopal.org>

On 6/13/2009 at 12:56:02 -0500, Tom Penney <tpenney at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm on visi dsl too. visi dsl goes though their Minneapolis data
> center I believe.

I'm on VISI DSL too. Yesterday afternoon I had a DNS failure - I could 
ping the DNS server their DHCP was handing  out, but no site names 
would resolve. I ended up manually plugging in my old IAXS DNS server 
IP addresses - fortunately they're still up! And then everything worked 
fine.

At some point, I should find out what the IP addresses are of their DNS 
servers, so I can plug them in to my non-DHCP machines.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Sun Jun 14 11:35:06 2009
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:35:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <E1MFrMy-0007Mc-AF@fireagate.fireopal.org>
References: <E1MFrMy-0007Mc-AF@fireagate.fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <4A3526BA.8000909@umn.edu>

If you ever need DNS servers, the ones in the range between 4.2.2.1 and 
4.2.2.6 are good to remember.

Scott Raun wrote:
> On 6/13/2009 at 12:56:02 -0500, Tom Penney <tpenney at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I'm on visi dsl too. visi dsl goes though their Minneapolis data
>> center I believe.
>>     
>
> I'm on VISI DSL too. Yesterday afternoon I had a DNS failure - I could 
> ping the DNS server their DHCP was handing  out, but no site names 
> would resolve. I ended up manually plugging in my old IAXS DNS server 
> IP addresses - fortunately they're still up! And then everything worked 
> fine.
>
> At some point, I should find out what the IP addresses are of their DNS 
> servers, so I can plug them in to my non-DHCP machines.
>
>   

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From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Mon Jun 15 08:05:36 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:05:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <4A3526BA.8000909@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <QQL0ErvE.1245071136.1728890.a.kuriger@localhost>


Or you could always use OpenDNS:

208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220

~Andrew

On 6/14/2009, "Elvedin Trnjanin" <trnja001 at umn.edu> wrote:

>If you ever need DNS servers, the ones in the range between 4.2.2.1 and
>4.2.2.6 are good to remember.
>
>Scott Raun wrote:
>> On 6/13/2009 at 12:56:02 -0500, Tom Penney <tpenney at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm on visi dsl too. visi dsl goes though their Minneapolis data
>>> center I believe.
>>>
>>
>> I'm on VISI DSL too. Yesterday afternoon I had a DNS failure - I could
>> ping the DNS server their DHCP was handing  out, but no site names
>> would resolve. I ended up manually plugging in my old IAXS DNS server
>> IP addresses - fortunately they're still up! And then everything worked
>> fine.
>>
>> At some point, I should find out what the IP addresses are of their DNS
>> servers, so I can plug them in to my non-DHCP machines.
>>
>>
>


From tpenney at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 10:24:57 2009
From: tpenney at gmail.com (Tom Penney)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:24:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>

One of our 4 machines lost a drive during the incident. Lots of admin
were there when I arrived having other hardware issues. this is the
second time in 4 years that power has gone out to our rack. Aside from
that, visi has been great, but this is not good. does anyone colo at
IP house?


From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Mon Jun 15 11:06:23 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:06:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>
	<5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5F7AD54-819C-4234-8D0C-AD545C726F4E@secure-computing.net>

On Jun 15, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Tom Penney wrote:

> One of our 4 machines lost a drive during the incident. Lots of admin
> were there when I arrived having other hardware issues. this is the
> second time in 4 years that power has gone out to our rack. Aside from
> that, visi has been great, but this is not good. does anyone colo at
> IP house?


Yes, and they had a similar power outage a year ago this past March.   
We didn't lose any drives during that outage, but half their entire  
data center was without power.  This was one of the notices sent by  
Bil MacLeslie (ipHouse CEO):

...
This morning at approximately 8:51am a 480v circuit breaker tripped,
shutting down power to an integrated 480v/208v transformer & PDU (power
distribution unit).  This caused a power outage for some of our  
colocation
customers who are fed power from this PDU.  At 9:32am, power was  
restored
to the PDU and by 9:56am all circuits were back on.  I personally  
staggered
powering circuits back on to watch for an overload condition.

The NEC (National Electric Code) requires that the maximum circuit  
load be
80% of the rated capacity of the circuit breaker, e.g. 16A maximum on  
a 20A
breaker.  We regularly take power readings from each circuit and  
maintain
power utilization within the requirements of the NEC.  When reading  
power
utilization today, we found nothing that would cause the 480v circuit  
to be
overloaded.  All indicators show that the circuit is not overloaded,  
nor is
the PDU overloaded.  The true cause for the breaker being tripped will
likely never be known, but does not appear to be from overloading.

Because of this outage, some customers have had equipment failures  
that are
indicative of a voltage surge on the system.  The UPS and PDU system is
protected by a transient voltage surge suppressor (TVSS) and we are
investigating the aspect of a surge further.  We are also currently
investigating to see if the UPS contains data that may shed some light  
on
the situation.  As we get more data, we will provide it to you.
...


---
Eric Crist






From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 11:47:29 2009
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:47:29 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>
	<5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67f3084a0906150947o52b46fffj59718dc15dc339b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Tom Penney <tpenney at gmail.com> wrote:

> One of our 4 machines lost a drive during the incident. Lots of admin
> were there when I arrived having other hardware issues. this is the
> second time in 4 years that power has gone out to our rack. Aside from
> that, visi has been great, but this is not good. does anyone colo at
> IP house?


If this is a one time occurrence, I would be inclined to let it slide while
noting it for future reference.  If this has occurred multiple times
already, then I would inquire about going elsewhere.  Also, be aware that if
a facility loses power, it's not always a result of them.  Look back to
downtown Saint Paul in 2001 with the flooding.


-- 
-Shawn
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 14:32:08 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:32:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0906150947o52b46fffj59718dc15dc339b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>
	<5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>
	<67f3084a0906150947o52b46fffj59718dc15dc339b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906151426030.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Shawn Fertch wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Tom Penney <tpenney at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> One of our 4 machines lost a drive during the incident. Lots of admin 
>> were there when I arrived having other hardware issues. this is the 
>> second time in 4 years that power has gone out to our rack. Aside from 
>> that, visi has been great, but this is not good. does anyone colo at IP 
>> house?
>
> If this is a one time occurrence, I would be inclined to let it slide 
> while noting it for future reference.  If this has occurred multiple 
> times already, then I would inquire about going elsewhere.  Also, be 
> aware that if a facility loses power, it's not always a result of them. 
> Look back to downtown Saint Paul in 2001 with the flooding.


Also, if someone were to go elsewhere seeking a flawless power supply 
system, how would they know that what they are getting into was really 
better than what they left behind?  A perfect record isn't that great of a 
guarantee if you are trying to avoid losing one hour in five years (almost 
five nines), say.  So I think you really have to know a lot about 
electrical systems and what different providers are doing before you can 
really be confident about what you are getting into.  It is all beyond me, 
but the letter from the IPhouse guy made me feel like he at least knows 
what he is doing (I don't know them or anyone who works for them), but 
maybe that is true of all colo providers.

Mike


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Mon Jun 15 16:37:14 2009
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:37:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <B5F7AD54-819C-4234-8D0C-AD545C726F4E@secure-computing.net>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>
	<5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>
	<B5F7AD54-819C-4234-8D0C-AD545C726F4E@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906151634430.24241@admin.det.technicality.org>

Ditto.. my response to that was to get a second circuit installed from a 
different PDU, and go to equipment with dual power supplies. The stuff 
that was on a single power supply got moved to an ATS.

Moral of the story: all data centers will have occasional power outages, 
but if they are built out properly (completely isolated gensets, UPS's, 
and PDU's), buy a circuit off each independent power supply, and the 
chances of a power outage are extremely low. Of course, there are always 
situations like the fire marshall ordering power off due to a gas leak, 
etc, but that's exceptionally rare.

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Eric F Crist wrote:
> Yes, and they had a similar power outage a year ago this past March. We 
> didn't lose any drives during that outage, but half their entire data 
> center was without power.  This was one of the notices sent by Bil 
> MacLeslie (ipHouse CEO):


From sublet.john at gmail.com  Mon Jun 15 23:28:08 2009
From: sublet.john at gmail.com (John Sublet)
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:28:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]  Fedora 11 is available
Message-ID: <214843af0906152128l70baae4fh78f731371f28e156@mail.gmail.com>

Somewhat new to the area and new to the list so I thought I'd say hi!

> (Hope Fedora 11 will NOT screw up my configurations;
cross fingers)

Post or email me how this went for you (or not). I've always been leery
of "upgrading" Fedora as it tends to be a moving target. Personally, I
keep /home and /boot on separate partitions as well as having two
separate / partitions.
Just for fun I tried installing from the Live CD this time and WOW was I
impressed!
I've used Redhat/Fedora nearly religiously from Redhat 7.0 until today.
Fedora 11 has actually surprised me with how good it is (YMWV).
Good times!


From tclug at john.holmstadt.com  Tue Jun 16 10:05:16 2009
From: tclug at john.holmstadt.com (John Holmstadt)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:05:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <41f54da20906092336r4563ab7cq7477c2507505ba17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>	<1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
	<41f54da20906092336r4563ab7cq7477c2507505ba17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A37B4AC.4020100@john.holmstadt.com>

Sorry to come into this discussion late. I just got my Pre mid last 
week, so I'm still gathering impressions of the device, trying to give 
it a fair shake. So far I like it, and I think it makes a good 
alternative to the iPhone.

I just thought I'd add a little bit of Linux-related Pre info. My 
workplace currently uses Communigate Pro (we'll be moving to Exchange in 
a few months), which has ActiveSync emulation which they call "AirSync". 
It had worked fairly well for us on WinMo devices, rather poorly on 
PalmOS, and nearly perfect on iPhone. However its interaction with the 
Pre is dismal. It failed to sync ANY PIM data, and would only show me 
one ancient email from my Inbox, which it would persistently mark unread.

So if any of you are running Communigate Pro on any of your linux 
servers, I would suggest against advising your users to try the Pre 
until Stalker gets it working properly, unless you feel like battling it 
out with support.

I also noticed mention in this thread about the seemingly non-standard 
USB port on the Pre. At first I was flummoxed when I noticed this as 
well, until I realized that the Pre is using the newer "Micro" USB port, 
not the "Mini" USB that is found on most smartphones and smaller USB 
peripherals today. Though I haven't tried it myself, I've read of others 
that have HTC device chargers with the same MicroUSB port, and they have 
successfully used them in conjunction with the Pre. I know having to buy 
new adapters and cables is frustrating given how prevalent the MiniUSB 
devices had become, but at least it is a standard port and not actually 
proprietary, just currently rare.

- John


From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Tue Jun 16 11:06:47 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:06:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <4A37B4AC.4020100@john.holmstadt.com>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>	<1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
	<41f54da20906092336r4563ab7cq7477c2507505ba17@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A37B4AC.4020100@john.holmstadt.com>
Message-ID: <38B3EF0F-291B-4A46-9E0C-5884D7948544@secure-computing.net>

Something that came across ##openvpn on freenode today:

10:49 < oc80z> +-(root at pre)->
10:49 < oc80z> +-(/var/home/box)--> # ipkg-opt list | grep vpn
10:49 < oc80z> openvpn - 2.1_rc15-1 - SSL based VPN server with  
Windows client support
10:49 < oc80z> openvpn on the Palm Pre
10:50 < krzee> wow that was quick
10:50 < oc80z> :D
10:50 < oc80z> i did an scp on the WAN, pushed 10mbit+
10:51 < oc80z> Great device.

I don't know that Blackberry or iPhone have an OpenVPN client (please  
prove me wrong, would love to find an OpenVPN client for my BB).
---
Eric Crist






From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 11:47:49 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:47:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <4A37B4AC.4020100@john.holmstadt.com>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
	<41f54da20906092336r4563ab7cq7477c2507505ba17@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A37B4AC.4020100@john.holmstadt.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906161127120.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, John Holmstadt wrote:

> I also noticed mention in this thread about the seemingly non-standard 
> USB port on the Pre. At first I was flummoxed when I noticed this as 
> well, until I realized that the Pre is using the newer "Micro" USB port, 
> not the "Mini" USB that is found on most smartphones and smaller USB 
> peripherals today. Though I haven't tried it myself, I've read of others 
> that have HTC device chargers with the same MicroUSB port, and they have 
> successfully used them in conjunction with the Pre. I know having to buy 
> new adapters and cables is frustrating given how prevalent the MiniUSB 
> devices had become, but at least it is a standard port and not actually 
> proprietary, just currently rare.


That's great news.  I had no idea.  Here's one seller (but I don't know 
anything about this seller):

http://www.discountcell.com/cellular/p/trpre_F8Z273B06-ATT_5

I just ordered four of those (my wife also has a Pre).

Mike


From obelin23 at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 11:02:58 2009
From: obelin23 at gmail.com (Charlie O)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:02:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a
	computer
Message-ID: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>

I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the
last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.

Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
Linux-friendly?  I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll
need the system plus the installation media to install myself.

Thanks,

Charlie
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 11:16:29 2009
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:16:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <acfe3b450906170916x3e7b7e88v7c256f71ec9fd4c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Charlie O<obelin23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the
> last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
>
> Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
> Linux-friendly?? I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll
> need the system plus the installation media to install myself.

If you're in the market for a laptop, my brother got a Lenovo Thinkpad
with Suse pre-installed. He ended up installing Ubuntu, but he's been
very happy with it (almost a year with it now).

It's not local, but at least you'll know there are Linux drivers for everything.

-- 
Michael Moore
-------------------------
Share your families' genealogy and family history books. It's easy and
free : http://bookscanned.com


From jherrick at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 11:20:46 2009
From: jherrick at gmail.com (Jim Herrick)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:20:46 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82ad773b0906170920s4d8e6ccbm21001afa8d8e24e0@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Charlie O<obelin23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
> Linux-friendly?? I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll
> need the system plus the installation media to install myself.

Microcenter.


From sloncho at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 11:26:11 2009
From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:26:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7eeb230906170926r1edd4f18u81c43b2345e6b500@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Charlie O <obelin23 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
>
> Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are Linux-friendly?? I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
>

Dell offer some linux machines.

--
Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)

Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just
a pile of scrap.


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Wed Jun 17 11:55:28 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:55:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2p9p4jj.1245257728.0106250.a.kuriger@localhost>


If you are more adventurous you could always build your own. I like
newegg.com for getting *most* of my parts (nice that its tax free and
most stuff is free to ship), or for looking at products and trying to
find them else ware cheaper.

Otherwise as stated Micro center would be a good choice I guess.

~Andrew

On 6/17/2009, "Charlie O" <obelin23 at gmail.com> wrote:

>I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the
>last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
>
>Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
>Linux-friendly?  I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll
>need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie


From johntrammell at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 12:01:10 2009
From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John Trammell)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:01:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <acfe3b450906170916x3e7b7e88v7c256f71ec9fd4c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
	<acfe3b450906170916x3e7b7e88v7c256f71ec9fd4c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0906171001q1b0ac1c8g69302a8cb419db7e@mail.gmail.com>

I also got a Lenovo Thinkpad with SuSE--I've been very happy with it.
AFAIK Lenovo no longer offers Linux preinstall though.  :^(

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Michael Moore<stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you're in the market for a laptop, my brother got a Lenovo Thinkpad
> with Suse pre-installed. He ended up installing Ubuntu, but he's been
> very happy with it (almost a year with it now).
>
> It's not local, but at least you'll know there are Linux drivers for everything.


From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 12:12:11 2009
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:12:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 11 is available
In-Reply-To: <214843af0906152128l70baae4fh78f731371f28e156@mail.gmail.com>
References: <214843af0906152128l70baae4fh78f731371f28e156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82f04dc40906171012n5e8379c0ra93cf2ace25fc1ff@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> > (Hope Fedora 11 will NOT screw up my configurations;
> cross fingers)


Good luck with that :)

I've pretty much given up on Fedora lately.  It's been _ages_ since I've had
a good upgrade experience with Fedora.

I grabbed 11 (kde version), tried to install it on a system that is
currently running fedora core 6, and the live cd won't even boot.  Kernel
panic.  Made a half-hearted attempt to get around it with various kernel
options... didn't find anything.  Most recent Ubuntu live cd boots just fine
on the same hardware.

So then I installed it onto a virtual system (using Virtual Box) and it
boots and installs slow as snot.  After the initial install on the first
boot, most of the kde desktop crashed.

I installed all of the available updates and restarted it - at least it
doesn't crash now.  But it is still really slow.

Looks like I'll be staying in Ubuntu land for a good while longer.

Dan
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Wed Jun 17 12:23:51 2009
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:23:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a	computer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1245258003.25418.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3.1245258003.25418.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4A3926A7.8020402@twp-llc.com>

> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:02:58 -0500
> From: Charlie O <obelin23 at gmail.com>
> I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the
> last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
> 
> Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
> Linux-friendly?  I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll
> need the system plus the installation media to install myself.

If you want local, try Tran Micro, right next to General Nanosystems, 
and I think they have other locations. I can't speak to how Linux 
friendly they are, but you can look up how Linux-friendly each device is 
before you buy it.

Chris


From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 12:36:30 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan Niesen)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:36:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
Message-ID: <4a3929a8.25c0100a.0a0c.3afc@mx.google.com>

There's a company in Dinkytown that sells used/off-lease IBM and Lenovo stuff that would be a good fit for Linux:

http://www.computermegamall.com




From: Charlie O <obelin23 at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:02 AM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a computer

I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.

Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are Linux-friendly?? I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.

Thanks,

Charlie


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From progressivepenguin at gmail.com  Wed Jun 17 18:01:51 2009
From: progressivepenguin at gmail.com (Steve T)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:01:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] USI Wireless tech support
Message-ID: <7156d5f20906171601r52086b53ga87720d2a6f0c589@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone else have USI Wireless broadband?  If so, what has been
your experience with their tech support / customer service?

I've been a proponent of Fixed Wireless Broadband for years as a
valuable rural broadband resource.  I've worked at two WISPs that
served rural communities and really got behind a couple of good
services.  Fixed Wireless Broadband in the metro areas never really
made sense to me, but when USI Wireless arrived in Minneapolis I had
to try it.  Performance has actually been good for the most part, but
when I did run into an issue and wanted tech support to work with me,
I got zilch.  I've been on hold longer with USI Wireless than I ever
have been with Quest.  I've opened a ticket on line only to get a call
a week and a half later asking if my issue had been resolved.  I've
left voice messages that did not get a return phone call or email.

I was just not expecting such deplorable service, so this has taken me
by surprise.  They are giving WISPs a bad name and I'm thinking I was
right about Fixed Wireless Broadband in metro areas.

I haven't looked very far into this company, so what I'm left
wondering is: growing pains or just crappy service altogether?

-- 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!"
-- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)


From auditodd at comcast.net  Wed Jun 17 18:27:46 2009
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:27:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
In-Reply-To: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1948555377.458811245281266034.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

If 'brand-new' isn't a priority....

http://www.reboot-store.com/

It's the re-sale store for MPC in Eagan.
Sometimes you can find some good deals, including fairly new Dell workstations with a Windows XP Pro product key sticker. That way you can legally dual boot Windows and Linux.

----------
Todd Young

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie O" <obelin23 at gmail.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:02:58 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a computer


I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them. 

Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are Linux-friendly? I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself. 

Thanks, 

Charlie 



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 17 19:09:59 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:09:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <1948555377.458811245281266034.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAECNCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Finding a good deal there has become difficult since Bill died and it became "Reboot".  Most stuff is overpriced now.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of auditodd at comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:28 PM
> To: Charlie O
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a computer
> 
> 
> If 'brand-new' isn't a priority....
> 
> http://www.reboot-store.com/
> 
> It's the re-sale store for MPC in Eagan.
> Sometimes you can find some good deals, including fairly new Dell workstations with a Windows XP Pro product key sticker. 
> That way you can legally dual boot Windows and Linux.
> 
> ----------
> Todd Young
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlie O" <obelin23 at gmail.com>
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:02:58 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a computer
> 
> 
> I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad 
> experiences with them. 
> 
> Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are Linux-friendly? I'll need to do dual boot with Windows 
> for my work, so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Charlie 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date: 06/17/09 05:53:00
> 


From asim at cognizo.com  Wed Jun 17 21:32:37 2009
From: asim at cognizo.com (Asim Baig)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:32:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a	computer
In-Reply-To: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A39A745.7010602@cognizo.com>

Charlie,

My cousin Khalid (Cal) owns the shop and isnt on this mailing list. I am 
wondering if you could share your last 3 experiences with GNS? Were the 
employees rude or indifferent? Were the products not available? What 
happened the last few times?

If you would rather not share it in public, I would understand. I have 
noticed problems at his company too and have been wanting to get 
feedback from the community.

If anyone has any feedback good or bad, I will note it down and get it 
straight to him. For over 14 years, he has worked hard to keep his 
customers happy and he would very much want to know whats going on.

Thanks,

Asim

Charlie O wrote:
> I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but 
> the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
>
> Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are 
> Linux-friendly?  I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work, 
> so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
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From sloncho at gmail.com  Thu Jun 18 09:20:32 2009
From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:20:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] USI Wireless tech support
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20906171601r52086b53ga87720d2a6f0c589@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7156d5f20906171601r52086b53ga87720d2a6f0c589@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7eeb230906180720t4ea22dafsc6c62e6aae3094a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Steve T<progressivepenguin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone else have USI Wireless broadband? ?If so, what has been
> your experience with their tech support / customer service?
>
> I haven't looked very far into this company, so what I'm left
> wondering is: growing pains or just crappy service altogether?
>

I haven't used their WiFi service, but we are their customer (CoLo and
ISP) for more than 7 years now, and I would say that their support was
more than good during the years. I can say, that lately I really see
some problems with handling a customer support requests over a phone
(long wait), or email (few days to answer). But they have an online
chat support, where usually the waiting is less than 5 min, and they
are quick to resolve the problem. So, I don't know if they are
allocating more resources to the chat support, thus neglecting email
and phone, or the chat feature is just less used, and that's why is
quicker. But yes - there is a problem, and they should find a way to
resolve it quicker, before they start to lose customers.

Cheers

-- 
Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)

Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just
a pile of scrap.


From cwgriesel at gmail.com  Thu Jun 18 09:58:36 2009
From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:58:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] USI Wireless tech support
In-Reply-To: <e7eeb230906180720t4ea22dafsc6c62e6aae3094a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7156d5f20906171601r52086b53ga87720d2a6f0c589@mail.gmail.com>
	<e7eeb230906180720t4ea22dafsc6c62e6aae3094a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f246bf00906180758l6d7d3dc7ib81df0915b65a077@mail.gmail.com>

My suspicion, based on past experience working large helpdesks, is that Mpls
WiFi support calls and emails are being routed directly to a specialized
Mpls WiFi helpdesk group, that may be overworked and/or understaffed at the
moment, so their response time is slipping.

Online chat is usually designed to have a response within a minute, so it is
getting picked up by any available helpdesk staff that is on duty.  If your
issue is something that general helpdesk staff can resolve or point you in
the right direction, online chat will give you the fastest result.  You may
even get lucky and initiate an online chat at the moment when one of their
Mpls WiFi geeks is on duty, so you may get your issue resolved quickly that
way.  But once your request in placed into the WiFi ticket bucket, the staff
in that group being overworked may explain the poor response you are
getting.

One thing I do know about USI, and most other companies, is that while poor
support response does happen from time to time, the companies do respond
very quickly if your report a poor experience.  If you call the helpdesk,
choose the "other" option, and ask to speak with a manager on duty, then
politely explain your experience to them, they will usually bend over
backward to help you.  Of course you shouldn't abuse this and do it for
every call, but if you've had a couple bad experiences, I'm sure they would
actually be very happy to hear about.  No company wants their customers to
have that kind of experience, and they will go out of their way to help you
if you point out a problem in their previous responses.

Curtis



On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Sunny <sloncho at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Steve T<progressivepenguin at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Does anyone else have USI Wireless broadband?  If so, what has been
> > your experience with their tech support / customer service?
> >
> > I haven't looked very far into this company, so what I'm left
> > wondering is: growing pains or just crappy service altogether?
> >
>
> I haven't used their WiFi service, but we are their customer (CoLo and
> ISP) for more than 7 years now, and I would say that their support was
> more than good during the years. I can say, that lately I really see
> some problems with handling a customer support requests over a phone
> (long wait), or email (few days to answer). But they have an online
> chat support, where usually the waiting is less than 5 min, and they
> are quick to resolve the problem. So, I don't know if they are
> allocating more resources to the chat support, thus neglecting email
> and phone, or the chat feature is just less used, and that's why is
> quicker. But yes - there is a problem, and they should find a way to
> resolve it quicker, before they start to lose customers.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)
>
> Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just
> a pile of scrap.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at lizakowski.com  Thu Jun 18 13:28:24 2009
From: tclug at lizakowski.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:28:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]
 =?iso-8859-15?q?suggestions_other_than_General_Nanos?=
 =?iso-8859-15?q?ystems_to_get_a=09computer?=
In-Reply-To: <4A39A745.7010602@cognizo.com>
References: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A39A745.7010602@cognizo.com>
Message-ID: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>


I've had good experiences with Nanosystems.  

Good prices on many things, and the only local source for some parts.  They 
seem to have good answers to tech questions.

Sometimes the front-line guys look a little exhausted, but the service has 
been good.   

Jeremy


On Wednesday 17 June 2009 9:32:37 pm Asim Baig wrote:
> Charlie,
>
> My cousin Khalid (Cal) owns the shop and isnt on this mailing list. I am
> wondering if you could share your last 3 experiences with GNS? Were the
> employees rude or indifferent? Were the products not available? What
> happened the last few times?
>
> If you would rather not share it in public, I would understand. I have
> noticed problems at his company too and have been wanting to get
> feedback from the community.
>
> If anyone has any feedback good or bad, I will note it down and get it
> straight to him. For over 14 years, he has worked hard to keep his
> customers happy and he would very much want to know whats going on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Asim
>
> Charlie O wrote:
> > I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but
> > the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
> > Linux-friendly?  I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work,
> > so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From chris at cb1inc.com  Thu Jun 18 13:58:20 2009
From: chris at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:58:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
In-Reply-To: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>
References: <72278d10906170902t5559a2bdo770f391732f82e92@mail.gmail.com>	<4A39A745.7010602@cognizo.com>
	<200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <4A3A8E4C.4080607@cb1inc.com>

I used to buy parts from General Nanosystems, but soon got tired of
paying 6.5% sales tax and now I buy everything from Newegg.  Micro
Center's prices are really competitive and in some cases beating
Newegg's prices.  You'll have to figure out what's cheaper: sales tax or
shipping.  For example, it's cheaper to get a OCZ 120GB Vertex SSD from
Micro Center than Newegg.  A couple months ago, Micro Center had better
pricing on Intel Core I7 920's compared to Newegg.

As far as customer service, the checkout process at GNS vs MC is about
the same... slow.

BTW, I noticed the other day while at Micro Center picking up a sweet
$10 black mini keyboard for my Linux box that they now sell Lego Star
Wars sets!

-Chris



Jeremy wrote:
> I've had good experiences with Nanosystems.  
>
> Good prices on many things, and the only local source for some parts.  They 
> seem to have good answers to tech questions.
>
> Sometimes the front-line guys look a little exhausted, but the service has 
> been good.   
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 9:32:37 pm Asim Baig wrote:
>   
>> Charlie,
>>
>> My cousin Khalid (Cal) owns the shop and isnt on this mailing list. I am
>> wondering if you could share your last 3 experiences with GNS? Were the
>> employees rude or indifferent? Were the products not available? What
>> happened the last few times?
>>
>> If you would rather not share it in public, I would understand. I have
>> noticed problems at his company too and have been wanting to get
>> feedback from the community.
>>
>> If anyone has any feedback good or bad, I will note it down and get it
>> straight to him. For over 14 years, he has worked hard to keep his
>> customers happy and he would very much want to know whats going on.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Asim
>>
>> Charlie O wrote:
>>     
>>> I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but
>>> the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
>>> Linux-friendly?  I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work,
>>> so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>       
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
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From a.berhow at charter.net  Thu Jun 18 13:48:14 2009
From: a.berhow at charter.net (Andrew B. Berhow)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:48:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] USI Wireless tech support
In-Reply-To: <7156d5f20906171601r52086b53ga87720d2a6f0c589@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7156d5f20906171601r52086b53ga87720d2a6f0c589@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A3A8BEE.10102@charter.net>

I've experienced a number of issues with USI Wireless broadband. I would
agree that their Wireless Help Desk is understaffed and overworked.

Currently I experience excellent Wireless service. This is largely due
to replacing the terrible Ruckus hardware with a more robust externally
mounted radio. The Ruckus hardware is complete garbage and should not be
used for USI Wireless deployments. Document your problems thoroughly. I
believe you can configure the ruckus to report to a syslog server. Be
sure to complain thoroughly, with evidence, and you may be able to get a
hardware change. This is no simple feat.

Steve T wrote:
> Does anyone else have USI Wireless broadband?  If so, what has been
> your experience with their tech support / customer service?
> 
> I've been a proponent of Fixed Wireless Broadband for years as a
> valuable rural broadband resource.  I've worked at two WISPs that
> served rural communities and really got behind a couple of good
> services.  Fixed Wireless Broadband in the metro areas never really
> made sense to me, but when USI Wireless arrived in Minneapolis I had
> to try it.  Performance has actually been good for the most part, but
> when I did run into an issue and wanted tech support to work with me,
> I got zilch.  I've been on hold longer with USI Wireless than I ever
> have been with Quest.  I've opened a ticket on line only to get a call
> a week and a half later asking if my issue had been resolved.  I've
> left voice messages that did not get a return phone call or email.
> 
> I was just not expecting such deplorable service, so this has taken me
> by surprise.  They are giving WISPs a bad name and I'm thinking I was
> right about Fixed Wireless Broadband in metro areas.
> 
> I haven't looked very far into this company, so what I'm left
> wondering is: growing pains or just crappy service altogether?
> 


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 18 14:53:12 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:53:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a	computer
In-Reply-To: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Back when Nanosystems had ads in Computer User, etc I tried buying stuff from them several times.

I could get no help at all if I asked a question, and it was not clear whether they stocked what I was looking for.  The sales staff
was rude and and gave no time unless a customer immediately stated a product they could ring up.

Ad prices were OK, but service was so bad the store might as well have been closed.  I never went back.  I buy from Micro Center.


Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:28 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org; asim at cognizo.com
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a computer
>
>
>
> I've had good experiences with Nanosystems.
>
> Good prices on many things, and the only local source for some parts.  They
> seem to have good answers to tech questions.
>
> Sometimes the front-line guys look a little exhausted, but the service has
> been good.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 9:32:37 pm Asim Baig wrote:
> > Charlie,
> >
> > My cousin Khalid (Cal) owns the shop and isnt on this mailing list. I am
> > wondering if you could share your last 3 experiences with GNS? Were the
> > employees rude or indifferent? Were the products not available? What
> > happened the last few times?
> >
> > If you would rather not share it in public, I would understand. I have
> > noticed problems at his company too and have been wanting to get
> > feedback from the community.
> >
> > If anyone has any feedback good or bad, I will note it down and get it
> > straight to him. For over 14 years, he has worked hard to keep his
> > customers happy and he would very much want to know whats going on.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Asim
> >
> > Charlie O wrote:
> > > I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but
> > > the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
> > >
> > > Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
> > > Linux-friendly?  I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work,
> > > so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.77/2184 - Release Date: 06/18/09 05:53:00
>



From dniesen at gmail.com  Thu Jun 18 15:37:51 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:37:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>

I'd have to agree.  Nano has always been kind of a weird shop.  My
wife refused to come in with me because the people behind the counter
never seemed to care or were flat out unfriendly.

Their prices have always been well above MicroCenter or any of the big
box stores.  The only niche they ever filled for me is if I HAD to
have a part now and I happened to be in that neighborhood.  Weird
thing is they always seemed pretty busy; I'm not sure why people keep
going back.


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Chuck Cole<cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Back when Nanosystems had ads in Computer User, etc I tried buying stuff from them several times.
>
> I could get no help at all if I asked a question, and it was not clear whether they stocked what I was looking for. ?The sales staff
> was rude and and gave no time unless a customer immediately stated a product they could ring up.
>
> Ad prices were OK, but service was so bad the store might as well have been closed. ?I never went back. ?I buy from Micro Center.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:28 PM
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org; asim at cognizo.com
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a computer
>>
>>
>>
>> I've had good experiences with Nanosystems.
>>
>> Good prices on many things, and the only local source for some parts. ?They
>> seem to have good answers to tech questions.
>>
>> Sometimes the front-line guys look a little exhausted, but the service has
>> been good.
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 9:32:37 pm Asim Baig wrote:
>> > Charlie,
>> >
>> > My cousin Khalid (Cal) owns the shop and isnt on this mailing list. I am
>> > wondering if you could share your last 3 experiences with GNS? Were the
>> > employees rude or indifferent? Were the products not available? What
>> > happened the last few times?
>> >
>> > If you would rather not share it in public, I would understand. I have
>> > noticed problems at his company too and have been wanting to get
>> > feedback from the community.
>> >
>> > If anyone has any feedback good or bad, I will note it down and get it
>> > straight to him. For over 14 years, he has worked hard to keep his
>> > customers happy and he would very much want to know whats going on.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Asim
>> >
>> > Charlie O wrote:
>> > > I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but
>> > > the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
>> > >
>> > > Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
>> > > Linux-friendly? ?I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work,
>> > > so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Charlie
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.77/2184 - Release Date: 06/18/09 05:53:00
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From tclug at john.holmstadt.com  Thu Jun 18 15:41:40 2009
From: tclug at john.holmstadt.com (John Holmstadt)
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:41:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <38B3EF0F-291B-4A46-9E0C-5884D7948544@secure-computing.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>	<1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>	<41f54da20906092336r4563ab7cq7477c2507505ba17@mail.gmail.com>	<4A37B4AC.4020100@john.holmstadt.com>
	<38B3EF0F-291B-4A46-9E0C-5884D7948544@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <4A3AA684.6080705@john.holmstadt.com>

Regarding OpenVPN:
Yeah I just tried that myself for the first time today. It made some
complaint about "openvpn: unsatisfied recommendation for
kernel-module-tun", so perhaps it's not quite that simple, or maybe I'm
still missing something. In any case, very sweet. I'll certainly be 
making use of that at my workplace.

Also, if any of you are interested, there's plenty of Pre hacking
goodness over at predev.wikidot.com. Take a look at what's available
already: http://predev.wikidot.com/system:list-all-pages . I'm currently
installing the WebShell SSH client.

- John



From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Jun 19 16:36:08 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:36:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Google Android @ Penguins Unbound Meeting June 27, 2009
Message-ID: <4A3C04C8.3040705@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday June 27th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

This month the Penguins Unbound Meeting will be about Google Android

Justin Grammens will talk about Android,
   - Basics of Android
   - Showed some code
   - Show how you might deploy an application to the Android Market

Hope to see you there.

Thanks.

==>brian.


From pcutler at gnome.org  Wed Jun 17 12:33:06 2009
From: pcutler at gnome.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:33:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 11 is available
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc40906171012n5e8379c0ra93cf2ace25fc1ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <214843af0906152128l70baae4fh78f731371f28e156@mail.gmail.com>
	<82f04dc40906171012n5e8379c0ra93cf2ace25fc1ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39428b2a0906171033o1bae44f7t245dbac3c0489b4c@mail.gmail.com>

I challenged myself to run some other distros earlier this year, and after
using openSUSE for a month or two, I then switched to Fedora for the last
couple of months.  I was really impressed with Fedora 11 after running the
Beta & RC.

I was running the default version (GNOME), and it's come a long way since I
had last used it in 2004 before switching to Ubuntu for a couple of years.

I can't speak to its performance in a VM, but on my Lenovo T61 it was quite
responsive.  I'd highly recommend it.

Paul

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Dan Armbrust <
daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> > (Hope Fedora 11 will NOT screw up my configurations;
>> cross fingers)
>
>
> Good luck with that :)
>
> I've pretty much given up on Fedora lately.  It's been _ages_ since I've
> had a good upgrade experience with Fedora.
>
> I grabbed 11 (kde version), tried to install it on a system that is
> currently running fedora core 6, and the live cd won't even boot.  Kernel
> panic.  Made a half-hearted attempt to get around it with various kernel
> options... didn't find anything.  Most recent Ubuntu live cd boots just fine
> on the same hardware.
>
> So then I installed it onto a virtual system (using Virtual Box) and it
> boots and installs slow as snot.  After the initial install on the first
> boot, most of the kde desktop crashed.
>
> I installed all of the available updates and restarted it - at least it
> doesn't crash now.  But it is still really slow.
>
> Looks like I'll be staying in Ubuntu land for a good while longer.
>
> Dan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sat Jun 20 02:24:13 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 07:24:13 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to
	get	a computer
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com><KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net><47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1579623376-1245482954-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1992072616-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Albeit 6 or 7 years ago, my last several experiences were similar. I had bought a new power supply that turned out to not work and when I tried to exchange it for a new one the guy said something to the effect "no way. A bad power supply is like winning the lottery". He would not accept my return. I eventually pushed enough and got someone else who tested and confirmed it was bad. I didn't like spending many hours of time convincing the guy I had "won the lottery" when I could have spent it playing whatever game was big at the time. I pretty much moved all of my purchases and referrals to Tran Micro. Ever since Paul Tran left the business I stopped going there for the most part though I don't really know anything about the new folks. I mostly buy from the interwebs now anyways.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com>

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:37:51 
To: TCLUG-List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get	a computer


I'd have to agree.  Nano has always been kind of a weird shop.  My
wife refused to come in with me because the people behind the counter
never seemed to care or were flat out unfriendly.

Their prices have always been well above MicroCenter or any of the big
box stores.  The only niche they ever filled for me is if I HAD to
have a part now and I happened to be in that neighborhood.  Weird
thing is they always seemed pretty busy; I'm not sure why people keep
going back.


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Chuck Cole<cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Back when Nanosystems had ads in Computer User, etc I tried buying stuff from them several times.
>
> I could get no help at all if I asked a question, and it was not clear whether they stocked what I was looking for. ?The sales staff
> was rude and and gave no time unless a customer immediately stated a product they could ring up.
>
> Ad prices were OK, but service was so bad the store might as well have been closed. ?I never went back. ?I buy from Micro Center.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeremy
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:28 PM
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org; asim at cognizo.com
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get a computer
>>
>>
>>
>> I've had good experiences with Nanosystems.
>>
>> Good prices on many things, and the only local source for some parts. ?They
>> seem to have good answers to tech questions.
>>
>> Sometimes the front-line guys look a little exhausted, but the service has
>> been good.
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 9:32:37 pm Asim Baig wrote:
>> > Charlie,
>> >
>> > My cousin Khalid (Cal) owns the shop and isnt on this mailing list. I am
>> > wondering if you could share your last 3 experiences with GNS? Were the
>> > employees rude or indifferent? Were the products not available? What
>> > happened the last few times?
>> >
>> > If you would rather not share it in public, I would understand. I have
>> > noticed problems at his company too and have been wanting to get
>> > feedback from the community.
>> >
>> > If anyone has any feedback good or bad, I will note it down and get it
>> > straight to him. For over 14 years, he has worked hard to keep his
>> > customers happy and he would very much want to know whats going on.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Asim
>> >
>> > Charlie O wrote:
>> > > I've bought my last several computerrs from General Nanosystems , but
>> > > the last 3 times I've been in there I've had bad experiences with them.
>> > >
>> > > Can anyone suggest other good places to get a computer that are
>> > > Linux-friendly? ?I'll need to do dual boot with Windows for my work,
>> > > so I'll need the system plus the installation media to install myself.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Charlie
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.77/2184 - Release Date: 06/18/09 05:53:00
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From marc at e-skinner.net  Sat Jun 20 11:22:25 2009
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:22:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906151634430.24241@admin.det.technicality.org>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>	<5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>	<B5F7AD54-819C-4234-8D0C-AD545C726F4E@secure-computing.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906151634430.24241@admin.det.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <4A3D0CC1.7090409@e-skinner.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Exactly. If you need servers up you have to go with a dual power circuit
set up.  I have a full rack at Visi with dual power and dual uplinks and
have never experienced a single issue for over 2 years - even during
there planned outages.

You get what you pay for.  If it is critical, you must pay for the
architecture that will guarantee that.




Nate Carlson wrote:
> Ditto.. my response to that was to get a second circuit installed from a 
> different PDU, and go to equipment with dual power supplies. The stuff 
> that was on a single power supply got moved to an ATS.
> 
> Moral of the story: all data centers will have occasional power outages, 
> but if they are built out properly (completely isolated gensets, UPS's, 
> and PDU's), buy a circuit off each independent power supply, and the 
> chances of a power outage are extremely low. Of course, there are always 
> situations like the fire marshall ordering power off due to a gas leak, 
> etc, but that's exceptionally rare.
> 
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Eric F Crist wrote:
>> Yes, and they had a similar power outage a year ago this past March. We 
>> didn't lose any drives during that outage, but half their entire data 
>> center was without power.  This was one of the notices sent by Bil 
>> MacLeslie (ipHouse CEO):
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=d823
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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sat Jun 20 13:23:10 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:23:10 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <4A3D0CC1.7090409@e-skinner.net>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>	<5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>	<B5F7AD54-819C-4234-8D0C-AD545C726F4E@secure-computing.net><alpine.DEB.2.00.0906151634430.24241@admin.det.technicality.org><4A3D0CC1.7090409@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <1085013520-1245522449-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497189867-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Of course by "guarantee that" you mean "notably reduce the likelihood of an outage"

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>

Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:22:25 
To: Nate Carlson<tclug at natecarlson.com>
Cc: TCLUG List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Visi down


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Exactly. If you need servers up you have to go with a dual power circuit
set up.  I have a full rack at Visi with dual power and dual uplinks and
have never experienced a single issue for over 2 years - even during
there planned outages.

You get what you pay for.  If it is critical, you must pay for the
architecture that will guarantee that.




Nate Carlson wrote:
> Ditto.. my response to that was to get a second circuit installed from a 
> different PDU, and go to equipment with dual power supplies. The stuff 
> that was on a single power supply got moved to an ATS.
> 
> Moral of the story: all data centers will have occasional power outages, 
> but if they are built out properly (completely isolated gensets, UPS's, 
> and PDU's), buy a circuit off each independent power supply, and the 
> chances of a power outage are extremely low. Of course, there are always 
> situations like the fire marshall ordering power off due to a gas leak, 
> etc, but that's exceptionally rare.
> 
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Eric F Crist wrote:
>> Yes, and they had a similar power outage a year ago this past March. We 
>> didn't lose any drives during that outage, but half their entire data 
>> center was without power.  This was one of the notices sent by Bil 
>> MacLeslie (ipHouse CEO):
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAko9DL0ACgkQvE9HrEfeE4dEtACeMzVQWENGRb2BTjbx6/B2GdUX
yo4An3OBqclm54uuP3Rn7N02MNPKnooR
=d823
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From marc at e-skinner.net  Sat Jun 20 16:06:02 2009
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:06:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Visi down
In-Reply-To: <1085013520-1245522449-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497189867-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <5c596d0e0906131044l4a9870ddk7dc2f3becded7f8c@mail.gmail.com>	<4A33E82C.6080501@cb1inc.com>	<5c596d0e0906150824x28aa1753t9e281f8bc39ae57b@mail.gmail.com>	<B5F7AD54-819C-4234-8D0C-AD545C726F4E@secure-computing.net><alpine.DEB.2.00.0906151634430.24241@admin.det.technicality.org><4A3D0CC1.7090409@e-skinner.net>
	<1085013520-1245522449-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-497189867-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4A3D4F3A.3080106@e-skinner.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Your right, there is no 100% guarantee on anything.


jus at krytosvirus.com wrote:
> Of course by "guarantee that" you mean "notably reduce the likelihood of an outage"
> 
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>
> 
> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:22:25 
> To: Nate Carlson<tclug at natecarlson.com>
> Cc: TCLUG List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Visi down
> 
> 
> Exactly. If you need servers up you have to go with a dual power circuit
> set up.  I have a full rack at Visi with dual power and dual uplinks and
> have never experienced a single issue for over 2 years - even during
> there planned outages.
> 
> You get what you pay for.  If it is critical, you must pay for the
> architecture that will guarantee that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nate Carlson wrote:
>> Ditto.. my response to that was to get a second circuit installed from a 
>> different PDU, and go to equipment with dual power supplies. The stuff 
>> that was on a single power supply got moved to an ATS.
> 
>> Moral of the story: all data centers will have occasional power outages, 
>> but if they are built out properly (completely isolated gensets, UPS's, 
>> and PDU's), buy a circuit off each independent power supply, and the 
>> chances of a power outage are extremely low. Of course, there are always 
>> situations like the fire marshall ordering power off due to a gas leak, 
>> etc, but that's exceptionally rare.
> 
>> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Eric F Crist wrote:
>>> Yes, and they had a similar power outage a year ago this past March. We 
>>> didn't lose any drives during that outage, but half their entire data 
>>> center was without power.  This was one of the notices sent by Bil 
>>> MacLeslie (ipHouse CEO):
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From haircut at gmail.com  Sat Jun 20 20:31:17 2009
From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen)
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:31:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] D-Link DWL-7100AP super setting / super mode
Message-ID: <1245547877.17072.6.camel@localhost>

I've got a D-Link DWL-7100AP wireless a/g access point. Pretty standard,
works well. Two settings I never did understand, and don't seem to make
any difference that I can tell:

        Super Setting
        The DWL-7100AP is adhere to IEEE 802.11a standard in providing
        high date wireless transfer rates of up to 54Mbps. Capable of
        providing date rates of up to 72Mbps by enabling the Super Mode.
        
        Super Mode
        This activates the Super G Mode option. The default value is set
        to Disabled. The value can be changed according to the different
        Super G Mode capabilities of connecting devices. The available
        options are Disabled, Super G without Turbo, Super G with Static
        Turbo, and Super G with Dynamic Turbo.

Anyone know what these are for, and how they might work?
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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sat Jun 20 21:05:37 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:05:37 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] D-Link DWL-7100AP super setting / super mode
In-Reply-To: <1245547877.17072.6.camel@localhost>
References: <1245547877.17072.6.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <2050426824-1245550196-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-671969130-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

The turbo/super g stuff usually all refer to the use of multiple non-overlapping channels in the respective spectrum. Essentially its doubling the use of the available rf frequency capacity. The names associated with the settings in your product likely relate to when to use and which channels to use for super turbo mode with 2 or more devices. 

The names always made me think of all of those Street Fighter II game variations like turbo edition, special championship edition, etc

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Monsen <haircut at gmail.com>

Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:31:17 
To: Twin Cities Linux Users<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] D-Link DWL-7100AP super setting / super mode


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From cncole at earthlink.net  Sun Jun 21 14:14:32 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:14:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] D-Link DWL-7100AP super setting / super mode
In-Reply-To: <1245547877.17072.6.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLEEDFCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Adam Monsen
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:31 PM
> To: Twin Cities Linux Users
> Subject: [tclug-list] D-Link DWL-7100AP super setting / super mode
>
>
> I've got a D-Link DWL-7100AP wireless a/g access point. Pretty standard,
> works well. Two settings I never did understand, and don't seem to make
> any difference that I can tell:
>
>         Super Setting
>         The DWL-7100AP is adhere to IEEE 802.11a standard in providing
>         high date wireless transfer rates of up to 54Mbps. Capable of
>         providing date rates of up to 72Mbps by enabling the Super Mode.
>
>         Super Mode
>         This activates the Super G Mode option. The default value is set
>         to Disabled. The value can be changed according to the different
>         Super G Mode capabilities of connecting devices. The available
>         options are Disabled, Super G without Turbo, Super G with Static
>         Turbo, and Super G with Dynamic Turbo.
>
> Anyone know what these are for, and how they might work?

Don't know much about them, but they will only work with compatible equipment with similar capabilities.  I stick with vanilla G and
allow B connects so compatibility and latency are "normal".  I have no urgent need for slightly greater speed, and no rationale to
upgrade 6 systems that "ain't broke".  I'd recommend disabling the funny stuff and stick to basic specs so acquisition searches
(etc) need not go off into never-never and maybe lands.


Chuck




From jima at beer.tclug.org  Sun Jun 21 19:08:01 2009
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:08:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] D-Link DWL-7100AP super setting / super mode
In-Reply-To: <1245547877.17072.6.camel@localhost>
References: <1245547877.17072.6.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <4A3ECB61.1030006@beer.tclug.org>

Adam Monsen wrote:
> I've got a D-Link DWL-7100AP wireless a/g access point. Pretty standard,
> works well. Two settings I never did understand, and don't seem to make
> any difference that I can tell:

  Also, these "OMG SOOPER FAST" settings are often very, very 
unneighborly in regards to the spectrum they use.  If they're using more 
than one non-overlapping channel (1/6/11), then that's one less channel 
that a nearby network can use without interference.

      Jima


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jun 22 13:34:55 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:34:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906161127120.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEBJCOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906091839250.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1fef78e80906092156t7ec41eek1125e3917dd1578@mail.gmail.com>
	<41f54da20906092336r4563ab7cq7477c2507505ba17@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A37B4AC.4020100@john.holmstadt.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906161127120.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221330330.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, John Holmstadt wrote:
>
>> I also noticed mention in this thread about the seemingly non-standard 
>> USB port on the Pre. At first I was flummoxed when I noticed this as 
>> well, until I realized that the Pre is using the newer "Micro" USB 
>> port, not the "Mini" USB that is found on most smartphones and smaller 
>> USB peripherals today. Though I haven't tried it myself, I've read of 
>> others that have HTC device chargers with the same MicroUSB port, and 
>> they have successfully used them in conjunction with the Pre. I know 
>> having to buy new adapters and cables is frustrating given how 
>> prevalent the MiniUSB devices had become, but at least it is a standard 
>> port and not actually proprietary, just currently rare.
>
>
> That's great news.  I had no idea.  Here's one seller (but I don't know 
> anything about this seller):
>
> http://www.discountcell.com/cellular/p/trpre_F8Z273B06-ATT_5
>
> I just ordered four of those (my wife also has a Pre).


Here's what happened:  I placed the order on the 16th, they acknowledged 
on the 17th, shipped on the 18th and I received on the 20th.  That was 
with their $0.99 shippinng!

Shipping Status Qty Item Price Shipped 4 F8Z273B06-ATT - Micro USB Data 
Cable F8Z273B06-ATT $23.80 Shipping & Handling (Super Saver) : $0.99 Tax 
(MN) : $0.00 Total: $24.79

That was only $24.79 for four cables, and they worked great.

Mike


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jun 22 13:44:45 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:44:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
In-Reply-To: <1579623376-1245482954-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1992072616-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com><KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net><47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>
	<1579623376-1245482954-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1992072616-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221341210.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sat, 20 Jun 2009, jus at krytosvirus.com wrote:

> Albeit 6 or 7 years ago, my last several experiences were similar. I had 
> bought a new power supply that turned out to not work and when I tried 
> to exchange it for a new one the guy said something to the effect "no 
> way. A bad power supply is like winning the lottery". He would not 
> accept my return. I eventually pushed enough and got someone else who 
> tested and confirmed it was bad. I didn't like spending many hours of 
> time convincing the guy I had "won the lottery" when I could have spent 
> it playing whatever game was big at the time. I pretty much moved all of 
> my purchases and referrals to Tran Micro. Ever since Paul Tran left the 
> business I stopped going there for the most part though I don't really 
> know anything about the new folks. I mostly buy from the interwebs now 
> anyways.


I don't know what experiences are usually like at Gen Nan, but I had the 
same problem as you with power supply failure.  I took in the computer, a 
guy looked at it immediately, agreed the ps was bad, he replaced it and I 
went home.  It was 20 minutes from the time I walked in the door until I 
walked out.  There was no charge because of warrantee.

I assume that "wining the lottery" meant that ps failure is exceedingly 
rare.  That guy was nuts.  I've lost several over the years and two were 
on machines I bought at Gen Nan.

Mike


From chrome at real-time.com  Mon Jun 22 14:01:49 2009
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:01:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221341210.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>;
	from mbmiller+l@gmail.com on Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 01:44:45PM -0500
References: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com><KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net><47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>
	<1579623376-1245482954-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1992072616-@bxe1003.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221341210.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20090622140149.A20641@real-time.com>

On 06/22 01:44 , Mike Miller wrote:
> I assume that "wining the lottery" meant that ps failure is exceedingly 
> rare.  That guy was nuts.  I've lost several over the years and two were 
> on machines I bought at Gen Nan.

The discussion of dead power supplies reminds me of this cartoon.

http://www.customerssuck.com/strip/index.php?date=2009-01-25

The story behind it is amusing as well:

http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?p=468649#post468649

Yes, apparently power supplies can shoot flames, reputedly hot enough to set
someone's shirt on fire. (Probably just a bit of smoldering really... but a
good cautionary tale nonetheless).


(For other strange computer tales, consider the computer that the user fed
rice to http://www.customerssuck.com/strip/index.php?date=2009-02-01. Yes,
computers really are magic.)

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jun 22 14:09:32 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:09:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221356590.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Donovan wrote:

> I'd have to agree.  Nano has always been kind of a weird shop.  My wife 
> refused to come in with me because the people behind the counter never 
> seemed to care or were flat out unfriendly.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Chuck Cole<cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I could get no help at all if I asked a question, and it was not clear 
>> whether they stocked what I was looking for. ?The sales staff was rude 
>> and and gave no time unless a customer immediately stated a product 
>> they could ring up.


I'll third that.  I don't let such things bother me too much, but yes, 
they can be very arrogant and rude.  One guy in particular stands out.  I 
would say that he is tall, medium build, brown hair, maybe 35 years old. 
He's the kind of guy who will appear to ignore you while you are speaking, 
not acknowledge the truth or value in what you have said, and he's kind of 
abrasive.  He seems happy to be able to say that he cannot help you with 
something because it is no longer under warranty.  It's just not a good 
experience talking to him.  I also think he wants to get you out quickly 
and process customers as quickly as possible.  He might be one of the 
senior workers there and he is setting a bad example.  Some of the other 
guys are fine.  If they are paid by the number of customers they process, 
that would explain it.

I still go there a little because it is close.  I have been going much 
more often to Micro Center in St. Louis Park -- a bit of a drive but 
excellent prices.

People say all the time that the staff at Gen Nano are rude.  I don't 
think you can have a discussion about that shop without having this come 
up.  Why doesn't the owner know about it?  It definitely costs him money.

I'm only bothering to write about this now because someone on the list 
knows the owner, so maybe the business can improve.  If the owner is 
paying the workers more money for processing more customers, he should 
think about that a little bit more.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jun 22 14:38:37 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:38:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Hard disk prices (fwd)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221437120.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

FYI -- see below.  From another LUG.  It's a pretty cool web site and it 
looks like it was created by a kid who is 16 years old.  Must be one 
really smart kid!  --Mike


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:12:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russell Horn
Reply-To: MLUG Off-Topic Discussion <discussion at mlug.missouri.edu>
To: MLUG Off-Topic Discussion <discussion at mlug.missouri.edu>
Subject: [MLUG - DISCUSSION] Hard disk prices

Some of you may have seen this before, or spotted it today after it was 
linked to on /.

It's a page that pulls all the hard drive prices from NewEgg, then graphs 
the corresponding Gb/$ and the lists them so you can see the sweet spot to 
get maximum capacity for minimum price.

http://forre.st/storage

Of course, most people aren't overly concerned by disk manufacturer so 
this is a great way to make a purchase. I'm sure there's potential for it 
to be a powerful shopping tool if there are other products where there are 
a range of manufactures all making comparable products where capacity and 
cost are the main variables.

It's also interesting to see that 1.5TB drives are very close to becoming 
the new sweet spot for those planning a purchase.

Russell.

_______________________________________________
discussion mailing list
discussion at mlug.missouri.edu
http://mlug.missouri.edu/mailman/listinfo/discussion


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Mon Jun 22 14:44:53 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:44:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
	a computer
In-Reply-To: <20090622140149.A20641@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <EkGmUsBA.1245699893.5641090.a.kuriger@172.16.0.1>


I can confirm that this does in fact happen from time to time and is
usually a problem with excessive dust (usually tar) buildup. A long time
ago when I was working for the Geek Squad we had a customer bring in a
PC and had stated that it had caught on fire.

It was very obvious to me that the PSU was the part that had failed (you
could see literally where there had been burns inside the PSU to the top
of the case.

User decided to replaced the PSU and the case and the PC ran just fine
again.

PSU failures are definitely not a rare occurrence, and also real friends
don't let friends take there PC's to GS, although this probably goes
without saying.

~Andrew

On 6/22/2009, "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" <chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

>On 06/22 01:44 , Mike Miller wrote:
>> I assume that "wining the lottery" meant that ps failure is exceedingly
>> rare.  That guy was nuts.  I've lost several over the years and two were
>> on machines I bought at Gen Nan.
>
>The discussion of dead power supplies reminds me of this cartoon.
>
>http://www.customerssuck.com/strip/index.php?date=2009-01-25
>
>The story behind it is amusing as well:
>
>http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?p=468649#post468649
>
>Yes, apparently power supplies can shoot flames, reputedly hot enough to set
>someone's shirt on fire. (Probably just a bit of smoldering really... but a
>good cautionary tale nonetheless).
>
>
>(For other strange computer tales, consider the computer that the user fed
>rice to http://www.customerssuck.com/strip/index.php?date=2009-02-01. Yes,
>computers really are magic.)
>
>--
>Carl Soderstrom
>Systems Administrator
>Real-Time Enterprises
>www.real-time.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From dean at ripperd.com  Mon Jun 22 18:19:05 2009
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean E)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:19:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221356590.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221356590.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4A401169.1020802@ripperd.com>


Mike Miller wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Donovan wrote:
>
>> I'd have to agree.  Nano has always been kind of a weird shop.  My 
>> wife refused to come in with me because the people behind the counter 
>> never seemed to care or were flat out unfriendly.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Chuck Cole<cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I could get no help at all if I asked a question, and it was not 
>>> clear whether they stocked what I was looking for.  The sales staff 
>>> was rude and and gave no time unless a customer immediately stated a 
>>> product they could ring up.
>
>
> I'll third that.  I don't let such things bother me too much, but yes, 
> they can be very arrogant and rude.  One guy in particular stands 
> out.  I would say that he is tall, medium build, brown hair, maybe 35 
> years old. He's the kind of guy who will appear to ignore you while 
> you are speaking, not acknowledge the truth or value in what you have 
> said, and he's kind of abrasive.  He seems happy to be able to say 
> that he cannot help you with something because it is no longer under 
> warranty.  It's just not a good experience talking to him.  I also 
> think he wants to get you out quickly and process customers as quickly 
> as possible.  He might be one of the senior workers there and he is 
> setting a bad example.  Some of the other guys are fine.  If they are 
> paid by the number of customers they process, that would explain it.
>
They certainly should be made aware of this, so I have cc'ed them. I 
know who you are referring to, so I know they will.
> I still go there a little because it is close.  I have been going much 
> more often to Micro Center in St. Louis Park -- a bit of a drive but 
> excellent prices.
>
> People say all the time that the staff at Gen Nano are rude.  I don't 
> think you can have a discussion about that shop without having this 
> come up.  Why doesn't the owner know about it?  It definitely costs 
> him money.
>
> I'm only bothering to write about this now because someone on the list 
> knows the owner, so maybe the business can improve.  If the owner is 
> paying the workers more money for processing more customers, he should 
> think about that a little bit more.
>
> Mike
I know many of the guys there, and have lurked here for years. I worked 
there in 2006 and 2007 doing a little bit of everything. During that 
time there was no compensation based on per-employee sales #'s. In fact, 
only people that needed elevated privileges had their own logins to the 
sales system, everyone else used a generic login. I would bet this 
hasn't changed.

I have always considered GNS a great resource for us to have in the twin 
cities, and I really hope they continue to be successful.

-Dean


From dean at ripperd.com  Mon Jun 22 18:38:42 2009
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean E)
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:38:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
In-Reply-To: <EkGmUsBA.1245699893.5641090.a.kuriger@172.16.0.1>
References: <EkGmUsBA.1245699893.5641090.a.kuriger@172.16.0.1>
Message-ID: <4A401602.1080004@ripperd.com>

Andrew Kuriger wrote:
> I can confirm that this does in fact happen from time to time and is
> usually a problem with excessive dust (usually tar) buildup. A long time
> ago when I was working for the Geek Squad we had a customer bring in a
> PC and had stated that it had caught on fire.
>
> It was very obvious to me that the PSU was the part that had failed (you
> could see literally where there had been burns inside the PSU to the top
> of the case.
>
> User decided to replaced the PSU and the case and the PC ran just fine
> again.
>   
Yeah, PSU failures are quite common. Especially with the quality of ones 
included with some older OEM systems (Emachines I'm pointing at you!!!)

> PSU failures are definitely not a rare occurrence, and also real friends
> don't let friends take there PC's to GS, although this probably goes
> without saying.
>
> ~Andrew
>   
Indeed, I've heard some ripoff and/or horror sorries of Geek Squad. 
Heard some even better stories from guys that used to work there!


From pjcrump at bitstream.net  Wed Jun 24 20:58:14 2009
From: pjcrump at bitstream.net (PJ Crump)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:58:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to get
 a computer
In-Reply-To: <4A401169.1020802@ripperd.com>
References: <200906181328.24354.tclug@lizakowski.com>	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEDACOAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<47f4d5e70906181337v72792022v7bb6e91bbab4b505@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0906221356590.8553@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4A401169.1020802@ripperd.com>
Message-ID: <4A42D9B6.8010807@bitstream.net>

I would like to echo the same type of bad customer service at GN.  I 
have been there 3 times over the past 5 years and every time I wonder 
why I go there to begin with..  One example I had was when I was going 
to build a PC and wanted information about the various cases they had in 
stock.. Even though there was no one in line I was told to look at the 
samples and then when I had a question it was as if I had asked for a 
friggin pedicure..



Dean E wrote:
> Mike Miller wrote:
>   
>> On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Donovan wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I'd have to agree.  Nano has always been kind of a weird shop.  My 
>>> wife refused to come in with me because the people behind the counter 
>>> never seemed to care or were flat out unfriendly.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Chuck Cole<cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I could get no help at all if I asked a question, and it was not 
>>>> clear whether they stocked what I was looking for.  The sales staff 
>>>> was rude and and gave no time unless a customer immediately stated a 
>>>> product they could ring up.
>>>>         
>> I'll third that.  I don't let such things bother me too much, but yes, 
>> they can be very arrogant and rude.  One guy in particular stands 
>> out.  I would say that he is tall, medium build, brown hair, maybe 35 
>> years old. He's the kind of guy who will appear to ignore you while 
>> you are speaking, not acknowledge the truth or value in what you have 
>> said, and he's kind of abrasive.  He seems happy to be able to say 
>> that he cannot help you with something because it is no longer under 
>> warranty.  It's just not a good experience talking to him.  I also 
>> think he wants to get you out quickly and process customers as quickly 
>> as possible.  He might be one of the senior workers there and he is 
>> setting a bad example.  Some of the other guys are fine.  If they are 
>> paid by the number of customers they process, that would explain it.
>>
>>     
> They certainly should be made aware of this, so I have cc'ed them. I 
> know who you are referring to, so I know they will.
>   
>> I still go there a little because it is close.  I have been going much 
>> more often to Micro Center in St. Louis Park -- a bit of a drive but 
>> excellent prices.
>>
>> People say all the time that the staff at Gen Nano are rude.  I don't 
>> think you can have a discussion about that shop without having this 
>> come up.  Why doesn't the owner know about it?  It definitely costs 
>> him money.
>>
>> I'm only bothering to write about this now because someone on the list 
>> knows the owner, so maybe the business can improve.  If the owner is 
>> paying the workers more money for processing more customers, he should 
>> think about that a little bit more.
>>
>> Mike
>>     
> I know many of the guys there, and have lurked here for years. I worked 
> there in 2006 and 2007 doing a little bit of everything. During that 
> time there was no compensation based on per-employee sales #'s. In fact, 
> only people that needed elevated privileges had their own logins to the 
> sales system, everyone else used a generic login. I would bet this 
> hasn't changed.
>
> I have always considered GNS a great resource for us to have in the twin 
> cities, and I really hope they continue to be successful.
>
> -Dean
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>   


From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 24 21:12:04 2009
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:12:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] suggestions other than General Nanosystems to
	get	a computer
Message-ID: <1245895924.8464.26.camel@robert-desktop>

Ditto:

I haven't been in there (GNS)for a few years.  I got my last 3 bare
bones systems at The Box Shop and parts/upgrades at frys.com or
newegg.com

Robert




From phresus at gmail.com  Thu Jun 25 08:28:48 2009
From: phresus at gmail.com (Ryan Barry)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:28:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] fglrx dual head?
Message-ID: <52c89ab70906250628o3a8d8b78scbd905ffab51d060@mail.gmail.com>

Against my better judgement, I opted for a Radeon 4850 in my new system.
I'm running into difficulty with dual-head, however.

`aticonfig --initial=dual-screen --screen-layout=whatever` works, sort of.
The second monitor is initialized and comes up, but it seems that it's
running as an independent screen (has its own cursor, can't drag windows
over to it).  Enabling Xinerama leads to quick kernel panics.  `aticonfig
--dtop=horizontal` doesn't work at all (not supported with Randr 1.2, which
also seems to be a problem with Ubuntu, though I'm using Arch).

xrandr -q doesn't find my second monitor at all, so configuring it that way
is a wash.  `Virtual 3840 1080` directives in xorg.conf seem to do...
nothing.

There are suggestions on the Ubuntu forums which involve editing a file in
/etc/ati and xorg.conf to disable RandR12, but they lead to hard lockups
when slim initializes for login (I'm using slim+xmonad).

I'm not opposed to switching to a different distro if anybody has this
successfully working.  The radeonhd driver seems like it might work, but I'd
be giving up 3d acceleration then.  Anybody have this working?
-- 
while (!asleep) { sheep++; }
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Jun 25 15:57:11 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:57:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] * Saturday * Google Android @ Penguins Unbound Meeting
 June 27th, 2009
Message-ID: <4A43E4A7.3090400@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday June 27th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00 am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

This month the Penguins Unbound Meeting will be about Google Android.

Justin Grammens will talk about Android,
   - Basics of Android
   - Showed some code
   - Show how you might deploy an application to the Android Market

Hope to see you there.

Thanks.

==>brian.


From haircut at gmail.com  Thu Jun 25 22:26:11 2009
From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:26:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] any CACert assurers in/near northeast?
Message-ID: <1245986771.20214.266.camel@localhost>

I'd like to use CACert to generate server certs for my domains, and I'm
aware that the CACert root certificate is not installed by default in,
for instance, Firefox. I still wish to use CACert since this won't be an
issue for my purposes.

Are there any CACert assurers that would be willing to help me get 50
points? I live/work in northeast, so it would be ideal if we could meet
somewhere near there. If noone responds, I'll use the service on
cacert.org for locating assurers.

Another question, if anyone knows:
http://www.cacert.org/index.php?id=19 mentions that, even for assured
server certificates:
"only the domain name itself can be entered into the certificates (not
your full name, company name, location, etc.)."

Am I interpreting this correctly? And if so, is this a big problem that
an SSL cert doesn't mention full name, company name, location, etc?
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Jun 26 15:03:52 2009
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:03:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] fglrx dual head?
In-Reply-To: <52c89ab70906250628o3a8d8b78scbd905ffab51d060@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52c89ab70906250628o3a8d8b78scbd905ffab51d060@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0906261303s46a70a3dw17a9236c70b0c09c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Ryan Barry<phresus at gmail.com> wrote:
> Against my better judgement, I opted for a Radeon 4850 in my new system.
> I'm running into difficulty with dual-head, however.

Been there, done that.  I have since stopped using ATI cards, so my
info is outdated.

I was able to set up dual head by using SuSE.  Reason being, Novell
and ATI worked together so that SuSE contained the "special" ATI
driver that actually worked, as opposed to the publicly released
drivers.

Best of luck to you, but it looks like the issue hasn't changed much in 4 years.

Brian


From danyberg at gmail.com  Sun Jun 28 16:29:54 2009
From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:29:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT network solution
Message-ID: <5daafeb10906281429x562f38d4v3c1269d8fd32c15b@mail.gmail.com>

Monticello is getting a fiber optic network installed throughout the city
and my church is going to be one of the first places hooked up to it..  I
have been asked to set up the network (sadly I am the most qualified, it is
a small church) in the building that houses 2 apartments and the office,
along with a separate wireless connection.
  So far the plan is to have an IPCop machine just after the connection to
the fiber and that will be connected to a switch with separate cabling to
each apartment and office.  I am looking for the best way to keep of these 4
secure from each other.

This was short notice and is my first attempt at setting up anything other a
home network, so any other ideas for the layout would be appreciated.


-- 
"These are the times that try men's souls.  The summer soldier and the
sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their
country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and
woman."    -Thomas Paine

<><
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From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Sun Jun 28 18:28:25 2009
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:28:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT network solution
In-Reply-To: <5daafeb10906281429x562f38d4v3c1269d8fd32c15b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5daafeb10906281429x562f38d4v3c1269d8fd32c15b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <254fef0f0906281628i5e232f3frb56a8edb2e3df09@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:29 PM, swede<danyberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Monticello is getting a fiber optic network installed throughout the city
> and my church is going to be one of the first places hooked up to it..? I
> have been asked to set up the network (sadly I am the most qualified, it is
> a small church) in the building that houses 2 apartments and the office,
> along with a separate wireless connection.
> ? So far the plan is to have an IPCop machine just after the connection to
> the fiber and that will be connected to a switch with separate cabling to
> each apartment and office.? I am looking for the best way to keep of these 4
> secure from each other.
>
> This was short notice and is my first attempt at setting up anything other a
> home network, so any other ideas for the layout would be appreciated.

If security is your concern, you want to take the switch out of the
equation (unless it's a smart/managed switch) and add more interfaces
to the IPCop router (one for each of the 4 places that need to be kept
separated).  You will then assign different subnets to each of these,
and set up rules in the firewall about what can happen between them.
I'm not familiar with IPCop, so can't give any specifics on that step.
 Note that if the router is also acting as the DHCP server you'll have
to set that up to give out different ranges on each port.

Tony Yarusso
http://tonyyarusso.com/


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Sun Jun 28 18:49:58 2009
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:49:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT network solution
In-Reply-To: <254fef0f0906281628i5e232f3frb56a8edb2e3df09@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5daafeb10906281429x562f38d4v3c1269d8fd32c15b@mail.gmail.com>
	<254fef0f0906281628i5e232f3frb56a8edb2e3df09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A4801A6.7050205@beer.tclug.org>

Tony Yarusso wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:29 PM, swede<danyberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This was short notice and is my first attempt at setting up anything other a
>> home network, so any other ideas for the layout would be appreciated.
> 
> If security is your concern, you want to take the switch out of the
> equation (unless it's a smart/managed switch) and add more interfaces
> to the IPCop router (one for each of the 4 places that need to be kept
> separated).

  If one has a managed switch, they generally support 802.1q VLANs. 
Rather than having a NIC for each network, you can just assign each port 
on the switch to a separate VLAN, and trunk all of the VLANs to the 
Linux box.  For that matter, you can connect the uplink to a VLAN of its 
own on the switch, too.
  I have such a setup running six disparate networks to a Linux router 
with only one ethernet interface, which can therefore be replaced by any 
hardware if needed (and not just a device with sufficient PCI* slots). 
Also, adding additional networks is a breeze as long as you have enough 
switch ports (and you could always trunk to another switch).

  It's a tad bit involved, but I'm pretty fond of the setup, myself.

      Jima


From bob at grunners.com  Sun Jun 28 22:44:04 2009
From: bob at grunners.com (Bob De Mars)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:44:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT network solution
In-Reply-To: <4A4801A6.7050205@beer.tclug.org>
References: <5daafeb10906281429x562f38d4v3c1269d8fd32c15b@mail.gmail.com>
	<254fef0f0906281628i5e232f3frb56a8edb2e3df09@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A4801A6.7050205@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB603C09740F@tardis.LCL.local>

>>  If one has a managed switch, they generally support 802.1q VLANs.

I agree with this setup using a managed switch.  Don't get me wrong, I like IPcop, and have been running its evil older brother Smoothwall @ my house on a Pent pro 200 since almost the first beta release back in the day.  The long term problem with this setup is the box factor.  Old (and new) power supplies fail, fans will die, raid 1 is better but an old (or new) hdd might fail, etc....  I guess my point is the linux router is a bit more fragile than a switch (hardware wise in the long run).  Sure switches can die, but they are (forgive the M$ speak) slightly more Robust usually.  IMHO keep the Linux router at home, or setup somewhere where you will be often.  When things break, and your not around this sucks for you (& them).  It easier to get the call that the network/internet is down & all you have to tell someone to shutoff the switch or yank the powercord - count to 10, and plug it back it.

I recently dehodgepodged two of our offices networks, and have a few managed switches I could probably sell to you cheap if you decide to go this route.  I am pretty sure they are all 10/100 speed though.  I believe I have a couple 3-Com's, and a couple HP's all 24 port.  They are located in Oakdale, but I could bring them home to NE Mpls if you want to take a road trip.  I guess if your interested, just contact me off list.

Good Luck Brother.

B-o-B


GlobeRunners, Inc.
IT Manager
600 Inwood Ave. N., Suite 160  |  Oakdale, MN 55128  |  Direct (651) 925-1500  |  Cell: (612) 850-6940  |  Fax: (651) 925-1560  |  Email: bob at grunners.com

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jima
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:50 PM
To: tclug-list
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT network solution

Tony Yarusso wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:29 PM, swede<danyberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This was short notice and is my first attempt at setting up anything other a
>> home network, so any other ideas for the layout would be appreciated.
>
> If security is your concern, you want to take the switch out of the
> equation (unless it's a smart/managed switch) and add more interfaces
> to the IPCop router (one for each of the 4 places that need to be kept
> separated).

  If one has a managed switch, they generally support 802.1q VLANs.
Rather than having a NIC for each network, you can just assign each port
on the switch to a separate VLAN, and trunk all of the VLANs to the
Linux box.  For that matter, you can connect the uplink to a VLAN of its
own on the switch, too.
  I have such a setup running six disparate networks to a Linux router
with only one ethernet interface, which can therefore be replaced by any
hardware if needed (and not just a device with sufficient PCI* slots).
Also, adding additional networks is a breeze as long as you have enough
switch ports (and you could always trunk to another switch).

  It's a tad bit involved, but I'm pretty fond of the setup, myself.

      Jima

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Mon Jun 29 08:47:35 2009
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:47:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT network solution
In-Reply-To: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB603C09740F@tardis.LCL.local>
References: <5daafeb10906281429x562f38d4v3c1269d8fd32c15b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A4801A6.7050205@beer.tclug.org>
	<2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB603C09740F@tardis.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <200906290847.35963.bbaptist@iexposure.com>


On Sunday 28 June 2009 10:44:04 pm Bob De Mars wrote:
> >>  If one has a managed switch, they generally support 802.1q VLANs.
>
> I agree with this setup using a managed switch.  Don't get me wrong, I like
> IPcop, and have been running its evil older brother Smoothwall @ my house
> on a Pent pro 200 since almost the first beta release back in the day.  The
> long term problem with this setup is the box factor.  Old (and new) power
> supplies fail, fans will die, raid 1 is better but an old (or new) hdd

That is why you get something like this will an industrial flash drive and run 
the IPCop flash drive mods.  No moving parts at all.

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/systemgs_l05

-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
bbaptist at iexposure.com
Internet Exposure, Inc.
http://www.iexposure.com
(612) 676-1946 x117

Providing Internet Services since 1995
Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics
Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing


From j at packetgod.com  Mon Jun 29 08:53:51 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:53:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT network solution
In-Reply-To: <2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB603C09740F@tardis.LCL.local>
References: <5daafeb10906281429x562f38d4v3c1269d8fd32c15b@mail.gmail.com>
	<254fef0f0906281628i5e232f3frb56a8edb2e3df09@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A4801A6.7050205@beer.tclug.org>
	<2F317768D398A740BC88E65F37FAFB603C09740F@tardis.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0906290653v170f95e1id05a395bd7ae630b@mail.gmail.com>

You know, super super cheap solution is a WRT54GS running
DD-WRT/Tomato/Open-WRT with each interface setup as a separate network.
Extra cheap is that this is a low power system with no fan or moving parts.

I'm all about low power these days... Another low power but more than the
above solution: take an Aspire Revo install some sort of firewall distro on
(or adapt any other one as below) and put a bunch of USB ethernet ports on
it and there you go.  Not pretty but it would do the job :)

In any case if you need help I may have some time soon, contact me off list
and maybe I could help implement whatever solution you decide to go with.

--j

On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Bob De Mars <bob at grunners.com> wrote:

> >>  If one has a managed switch, they generally support 802.1q VLANs.
>
> I agree with this setup using a managed switch.  Don't get me wrong, I like
> IPcop, and have been running its evil older brother Smoothwall @ my house on
> a Pent pro 200 since almost the first beta release back in the day.  The
> long term problem with this setup is the box factor.  Old (and new) power
> supplies fail, fans will die, raid 1 is better but an old (or new) hdd might
> fail, etc....  I guess my point is the linux router is a bit more fragile
> than a switch (hardware wise in the long run).  Sure switches can die, but
> they are (forgive the M$ speak) slightly more Robust usually.  IMHO keep the
> Linux router at home, or setup somewhere where you will be often.  When
> things break, and your not around this sucks for you (& them).  It easier to
> get the call that the network/internet is down & all you have to tell
> someone to shutoff the switch or yank the powercord - count to 10, and plug
> it back it.
>
> I recently dehodgepodged two of our offices networks, and have a few
> managed switches I could probably sell to you cheap if you decide to go this
> route.  I am pretty sure they are all 10/100 speed though.  I believe I have
> a couple 3-Com's, and a couple HP's all 24 port.  They are located in
> Oakdale, but I could bring them home to NE Mpls if you want to take a road
> trip.  I guess if your interested, just contact me off list.
>
> Good Luck Brother.
>
> B-o-B
>
>
> GlobeRunners, Inc.
> IT Manager
> 600 Inwood Ave. N., Suite 160  |  Oakdale, MN 55128  |  Direct (651)
> 925-1500  |  Cell: (612) 850-6940  |  Fax: (651) 925-1560  |  Email:
> bob at grunners.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:
> tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jima
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:50 PM
> To: tclug-list
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT network solution
>
> Tony Yarusso wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 4:29 PM, swede<danyberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This was short notice and is my first attempt at setting up anything
> other a
> >> home network, so any other ideas for the layout would be appreciated.
> >
> > If security is your concern, you want to take the switch out of the
> > equation (unless it's a smart/managed switch) and add more interfaces
> > to the IPCop router (one for each of the 4 places that need to be kept
> > separated).
>
>  If one has a managed switch, they generally support 802.1q VLANs.
> Rather than having a NIC for each network, you can just assign each port
> on the switch to a separate VLAN, and trunk all of the VLANs to the
> Linux box.  For that matter, you can connect the uplink to a VLAN of its
> own on the switch, too.
>  I have such a setup running six disparate networks to a Linux router
> with only one ethernet interface, which can therefore be replaced by any
> hardware if needed (and not just a device with sufficient PCI* slots).
> Also, adding additional networks is a breeze as long as you have enough
> switch ports (and you could always trunk to another switch).
>
>  It's a tad bit involved, but I'm pretty fond of the setup, myself.
>
>      Jima
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From danyberg at gmail.com  Mon Jun 29 23:16:52 2009
From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:16:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT network solution
Message-ID: <5daafeb10906292116q411f6280o85e09efa85cec99@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, lots of good stuff...  IPCop may be out just because of only having 3
networks available, and I need 4.    Or at least it will be in place before
everything else as we will want certain things blocked as at least the
wireless portion will be set up as an internet cafe type of deal (it would
not be good for little Johnny to be trying to find out what pr0n means).I
think there is a mod to add more interfaces to IPCop, but I'm trying to keep
it simple.


>If security is your concern, you want to take the switch out of the
equation (unless it's a smart/managed switch) and add more interfaces
to the IPCop router (one for each of the 4 places that need to be kept
separated).  You will then assign different subnets to each of these,
and set up rules in the firewall about what can happen between them.

Security is a major concern.  Glad I wasn't too far off with thinking it
could be done with the subnets.

> I agree with this setup using a managed switch.

I am thinking this may be the way to go.

> You know, super super cheap solution is a WRT54GS running

I like that idea and I have WRT54G2 that I am using here at
home,unfortunately I forgot the password so I'll have to wait until I have
more time to look at that.
This would be ideal but there are only 3 wired ports after the uplink is
used and the place we will want the wireless is probably too far away to be
used this way.

Thanks, I'm sure I'll have more questions later.


-- 
"These are the times that try men's souls.  The summer soldier and the
sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their
country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and
woman."    -Thomas Paine

<><
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