From jucziz6 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 08:03:35 2009
From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 08:03:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] usb hard drives
In-Reply-To: <20091001024514.GJ20918@iris.iucha.org>
References: <81675d140909301936h71332ab1j2349d2340cafdf4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091001024514.GJ20918@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <81675d140910010603x1e186e44qf897c513c834ba26@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Florin, that worked.

Would mkfs -t ext3 worked as well?

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:36:31PM -0500, James wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am trying to add a usb hard drive to Centos 5.3. So far I have done
>> the following
>>
>> fdisk /dev/sdd1, added a new partition made it type 83
>> rebooted the system
>> edit /etc/fstab add the line
>> ? /dev/sdd1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? /usb/320 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ext3
>> defaults ? ? ? ?0 0
>>
>> mkfs -V /dev/sdd1
>>
>> then mount /usb/320
>>
>> I get the following error
>> mount /usb/320
>> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sdd1,
>> ? ? ? ?missing codepage or other error
>> ? ? ? ?In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try
>> ? ? ? ?dmesg | tail ?or so
>>
>>
>> What am I missing?
>
> File system type I presume. ?Try this:
>
> ? mkfs.ext3 /dev/sdd1
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> ? ? ?http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


From florin at iucha.net  Thu Oct  1 08:58:54 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 08:58:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] usb hard drives
In-Reply-To: <81675d140910010603x1e186e44qf897c513c834ba26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140909301936h71332ab1j2349d2340cafdf4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091001024514.GJ20918@iris.iucha.org>
	<81675d140910010603x1e186e44qf897c513c834ba26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091001135854.GK20918@iris.iucha.org>

On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 08:03:35AM -0500, James wrote:
> Thanks Florin, that worked.
> 
> Would mkfs -t ext3 worked as well?
> 
> > ? mkfs.ext3 /dev/sdd1

James,

Yes, it would have worked.  "mkfs -t ext3" calls "mkfs.ext3" with the rest of the arguments.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From kris.browne at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 09:44:42 2009
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:44:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Meetup.com Linux group about to dissolve
Message-ID: <A74795AE-3CE2-4158-975D-39A98A7E7143@gmail.com>

Anyone have any interest in keeping ownership of the TC Linux Meetup  
group for some use? Looks like if nobody claims ownershp in 24 hours  
it'll dissolve.

Kris Browne


From jima at beer.tclug.org  Fri Oct  2 09:56:45 2009
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:56:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Meetup.com Linux group about to dissolve
In-Reply-To: <A74795AE-3CE2-4158-975D-39A98A7E7143@gmail.com>
References: <A74795AE-3CE2-4158-975D-39A98A7E7143@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC614AD.8070309@beer.tclug.org>

On 10/02/2009 09:44 AM, Kristopher Browne wrote:
> Anyone have any interest in keeping ownership of the TC Linux Meetup
> group for some use? Looks like if nobody claims ownershp in 24 hours
> it'll dissolve.

  I've always been of a mind that it didn't really perform any function 
worth the fee, particularly when we have infrastructure for group 
communication already.  It seems more sensible for people who aren't 
able to do what we do.
  That said, if anyone feels differently, they're welcome to drop the cash.

      Jima


From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Oct  2 15:28:27 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:28:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Meetup.com Linux group about to dissolve
In-Reply-To: <4AC614AD.8070309@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEFDCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jima
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:57 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Meetup.com Linux group about to dissolve
>
>
> On 10/02/2009 09:44 AM, Kristopher Browne wrote:
> > Anyone have any interest in keeping ownership of the TC Linux Meetup
> > group for some use? Looks like if nobody claims ownershp in 24 hours
> > it'll dissolve.
>
>   I've always been of a mind that it didn't really perform any function
> worth the fee, particularly when we have infrastructure for group
> communication already.  It seems more sensible for people who aren't
> able to do what we do.
>   That said, if anyone feels differently, they're welcome to drop the cash.
>
>       Jima


FWIW..    As I recall, Meetup claims ownership sends spam, and sells address lists.  I saw only negatives, so have never had any
desire to be part of a Meetup group.  I agree with Jima: what we have is quite good and good enough.


Chuck



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Fri Oct  2 05:31:25 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 18:31:25 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
Message-ID: <20091002183125.64485622.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I have a Linksys WPC54GS v1.1, and I'm trying to install it in Ubuntu.  I have the weight of the world on my shoulders, because this is for an IEEE study group called Project Phoenix (group working on an open source blood pressure monitor), and everyone else has little or no Linux experience.

I've done Google searches on how to install this wireless card.  I go through the procedures (like ndiswrapper and bcm43xx-fwcutter, but the mumbo jumbo either don't work, or there's one little thing in them that I can't do, and I can't figure out why not.

I have used a Linksys WUSB54GC in Puppy Linux in the past, and it worked right out of the box.

What's wrong?  Where can I get a general understanding of how things work without wading through tons of mumbo jumbo?

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From auditodd at comcast.net  Sat Oct  3 14:59:49 2009
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 19:59:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
In-Reply-To: <20091002183125.64485622.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <1029806109.1634511254599989563.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Buy a better (more Linux friendly) wireless card?

Sorry, couldn't resist. 
I had two Linksys PCMCIA cards. One worked, one didn't.
Fought for hours with the one that didn't and finally gave up and sold it to someone who needed wireless on a Windows laptop.

It's just easier to buy a card that is known to work with Linux.

I think I still have the PCMCIA card in a drawer somewhere.
I don't have a laptop any more that supports PCMCIA.

----------
Todd Young

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Hsu" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 5:31:25 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?

I have a Linksys WPC54GS v1.1, and I'm trying to install it in Ubuntu.  I have the weight of the world on my shoulders, because this is for an IEEE study group called Project Phoenix (group working on an open source blood pressure monitor), and everyone else has little or no Linux experience.

I've done Google searches on how to install this wireless card.  I go through the procedures (like ndiswrapper and bcm43xx-fwcutter, but the mumbo jumbo either don't work, or there's one little thing in them that I can't do, and I can't figure out why not.

I have used a Linksys WUSB54GC in Puppy Linux in the past, and it worked right out of the box.

What's wrong?  Where can I get a general understanding of how things work without wading through tons of mumbo jumbo?

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Oct  3 16:44:43 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:44:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
In-Reply-To: <1029806109.1634511254599989563.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEFECPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

I found Ubuntu to be very smart about finding and fitting drivers for wireless stuff.  As I recall, Ubuntu prompted me clearly for
all the things it initially thought were mysteries, and I was able to select proprietary or non-proprietary drivers at my option.
The cards I remember having setup issues with were Intel units sold for Dell (and others).  I selected proprietary drivers that I
use in XP and Ubuntu was happy to adapt and run them.  On an Ubuntu upgrade, I had to do it again,  but it was a BTDT session.
Subsequent Ubuntu updates have not affected any of my drivers.

Easiest when one does a fresh new install where Ubuntu is looking for all drivers, but easy and maybe the same if using the "install
new hardware" thing, whatever it's called.

If all else fails, I have a Proxim Orinoco Gold PCMCIA a, b, g card for sale that is about the best and most commonly compatible
thing you can find.  Actual Linux drivers are available for this card.


Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of
> auditodd at comcast.net
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 3:00 PM
> To: Jason Hsu
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HELP! How do I get a wireless card to work?
>
>
> Buy a better (more Linux friendly) wireless card?
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> I had two Linksys PCMCIA cards. One worked, one didn't.
> Fought for hours with the one that didn't and finally gave up and sold it to someone who needed wireless on a Windows laptop.
>
> It's just easier to buy a card that is known to work with Linux.
>
> I think I still have the PCMCIA card in a drawer somewhere.
> I don't have a laptop any more that supports PCMCIA.
>
> ----------
> Todd Young
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Hsu" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 5:31:25 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
>
> I have a Linksys WPC54GS v1.1, and I'm trying to install it in Ubuntu.  I have the weight of the world on my shoulders,
> because this is for an IEEE study group called Project Phoenix (group working on an open source blood pressure monitor),
> and everyone else has little or no Linux experience.
>
> I've done Google searches on how to install this wireless card.  I go through the procedures (like ndiswrapper and
> bcm43xx-fwcutter, but the mumbo jumbo either don't work, or there's one little thing in them that I can't do, and I can't
> figure out why not.
>
> I have used a Linksys WUSB54GC in Puppy Linux in the past, and it worked right out of the box.
>
> What's wrong?  Where can I get a general understanding of how things work without wading through tons of mumbo jumbo?
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
>



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Sat Oct  3 07:51:04 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 20:51:04 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Upcoming meeting times and locations?
Message-ID: <20091003205104.d520c7e3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

Where and when are the meeting times and locations of upcoming Linux user groups in the Twin Cities and St. Cloud?

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From pcutler at gnome.org  Sun Oct  4 07:22:40 2009
From: pcutler at gnome.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 07:22:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upcoming meeting times and locations?
In-Reply-To: <20091003205104.d520c7e3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20091003205104.d520c7e3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <39428b2a0910040522h71c76502u7f840d6000f7057@mail.gmail.com>

The TCLUG hasn't had a meeting for a while, though the Penguins Unbound LUG
in St. Paul meets the last Sat. of every month.

Not sure about St. Cloud.

Paul

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> Where and when are the meeting times and locations of upcoming Linux user
> groups in the Twin Cities and St. Cloud?
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From dniesen at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 17:05:28 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 17:05:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow Linux internet transfers behind a SonicWall?
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>

I have a really screwy issue presenting itself that I believe I have
narrowed down to the firewall but can't imagine why.

A SonicWall firewall is the primary gateway and firewall.  The site is
mostly Windows machines.  I went to add on an el-cheapo whitebox
machine with Ubuntu 9.04 to use for monitoring.  After getting
everything set up and installed, I noticed that my network transfers
were only between 5-10KB/sec no matter where I was pulling from.  I
checked transfer speeds from various Windows machines and they were
all pulling somewhere between 100-200KB/sec.

I tried changing out network cables and putting it into different
ports on the switch.  No luck.  Thinking I screwed myself by buying
the cheapest computer I could find, I installed VMWare Server 2.0 on a
Windows host that was downloading with no problems.  I threw a Debian
5.0 VMWare image in there, set up networking and received the same,
strangely slow transfers.  The weird thing is I can pull the same
Debian package from the same site down on the Windows host faster than
the Debian VM guest.

I've tried raising and lowering MTU with no change.  I poked through
the SonicWall to see if there was any weird filtering go on but they
don't have most of the options licensed even.

Has anyone run into this before?


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From dniesen at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 17:28:36 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 17:28:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow Linux internet transfers behind a SonicWall?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70910041528o1e2f8613xcf0f396a44961796@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a really screwy issue presenting itself that I believe I have
> narrowed down to the firewall but can't imagine why.
>
> A SonicWall firewall is the primary gateway and firewall. ?The site is
> mostly Windows machines. ?I went to add on an el-cheapo whitebox
> machine with Ubuntu 9.04 to use for monitoring. ?After getting
> everything set up and installed, I noticed that my network transfers
> were only between 5-10KB/sec no matter where I was pulling from. ?I
> checked transfer speeds from various Windows machines and they were
> all pulling somewhere between 100-200KB/sec.
>
> I tried changing out network cables and putting it into different
> ports on the switch. ?No luck. ?Thinking I screwed myself by buying
> the cheapest computer I could find, I installed VMWare Server 2.0 on a
> Windows host that was downloading with no problems. ?I threw a Debian
> 5.0 VMWare image in there, set up networking and received the same,
> strangely slow transfers. ?The weird thing is I can pull the same
> Debian package from the same site down on the Windows host faster than
> the Debian VM guest.
>
> I've tried raising and lowering MTU with no change. ?I poked through
> the SonicWall to see if there was any weird filtering go on but they
> don't have most of the options licensed even.
>
> Has anyone run into this before?
>
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>

Disabling "Enable TCP stateful inspection" has cleared it up for now
although I don't know why this would only cause the Linux boxes to
creep.  Maybe the firmware on this SonicWall doesn't play as nice with
the Linux TCP stack?

I'd be curious to see if anybody else has run into the issue but I'll
call it good for now.  I'm going to be replacing that SonicWall
eventually anyway.

-- 
Donovan Niesen


From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Sun Oct  4 19:21:50 2009
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (Kelly Black)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 19:21:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow Linux internet transfers behind a SonicWall?
References: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091005002150.GA15129@testhost.hutman.net>

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 05:05:28PM -0500, Donovan wrote:
> everything set up and installed, I noticed that my network transfers
> were only between 5-10KB/sec no matter where I was pulling from.

Duplex / speed check out the same on both ends?

Kelly Black



From peter at corbettdigital.net  Sun Oct  4 20:14:52 2009
From: peter at corbettdigital.net (Peter Corbett)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:14:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow Linux internet transfers behind a SonicWall?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AC9488C.9010003@corbettdigital.net>

Donovan wrote:
> A SonicWall firewall is the primary gateway and firewall.  The site is
> mostly Windows machines.  I went to add on an el-cheapo whitebox
> machine with Ubuntu 9.04 to use for monitoring.  After getting
> everything set up and installed, I noticed that my network transfers
> were only between 5-10KB/sec no matter where I was pulling from.  I
> checked transfer speeds from various Windows machines and they were
> all pulling somewhere between 100-200KB/sec.
> 
> I tried changing out network cables and putting it into different
> ports on the switch.  No luck.  Thinking I screwed myself by buying
> the cheapest computer I could find, I installed VMWare Server 2.0 on a
> Windows host that was downloading with no problems.  I threw a Debian
> 5.0 VMWare image in there, set up networking and received the same,
> strangely slow transfers.  The weird thing is I can pull the same
> Debian package from the same site down on the Windows host faster than
> the Debian VM guest.
> 
> Has anyone run into this before?

Curious. I've not used a SonicWall, but I'd guess things to look at next
would be selective acknowledgment, TCP MSS size, and maybe window
scaling and congestion avoidance.

-- 
Peter Corbett
peter at corbettdigital.net


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Sun Oct  4 07:38:48 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:38:48 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
Message-ID: <20091004203848.938deeb7.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I have a Dell Inspiron B120 laptop with a Broadcom 440x 10/100 network card for the Ethernet connection.  I had no problems connecting to my DSL modem and the Internet (was even plug-and-play) until today.  The Ethernet light on the DSL modem does NOT light up when I connect my laptop to it.

I know that my DSL modem still works, because my desktop connects to it just fine - the Ethernet light on the DSL modem does come on, and my connection works.  So the DSL modem works.

The Ethernet cable isn't at fault, either.  Even when I move the Ethernet cable connection from my desktop to my laptop, my laptop still won't connect with the DSL modem.

Given that I can safely rule out the DSL modem and Ethernet cable as culprits, does this mean the NIC card in my laptop is dead?  If I need to replace the NIC card, what should I buy, and where can I buy it?  On the one hand, I'd be inclined to get the same NIC card.  On the other hand, I'm not happy that this one died on me in less than 4 years.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 20:51:39 2009
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:51:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow Linux internet transfers behind a SonicWall?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e70910041505n20ef658ey5a1705358d961b99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0910041851l194e8c5dlc55457b773533937@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a really screwy issue presenting itself that I believe I have
> narrowed down to the firewall but can't imagine why. the

Check all the defaults.  Sonicwall uses some very broken options by
default.  I don't recall them all, however you need to set the TCP
timeouts to something rediculous (120 min) just to keep stateful
connections alive.  There are other settings as well that are just
plain wrong.  Sorry I can't be more specific, haven't touched one in 2
years now.

Brian


From cncole at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  4 21:53:28 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:53:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091004203848.938deeb7.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEFGCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

It's probably OK and just trying to help you save battery life according to some odd defaults.  My Dell Latitude D's have some power
saving defaults and options that will make the NIC turn off at odd times.  Various network setup options restore these after I have
disabled them.  Mine are mainly associated with docking and undocking and whether the wireless or wired NIC is active.

Rebooting with the AC power module connected and the LAN connected should make it wake up properly.  Track down all the BIOS and NIC
driver setup options after that.


Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 7:39 AM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
>
>
> I have a Dell Inspiron B120 laptop with a Broadcom 440x 10/100 network card for the Ethernet connection.  I had no
> problems connecting to my DSL modem and the Internet (was even plug-and-play) until today.  The Ethernet light on the DSL
> modem does NOT light up when I connect my laptop to it.
>
> I know that my DSL modem still works, because my desktop connects to it just fine - the Ethernet light on the DSL modem
> does come on, and my connection works.  So the DSL modem works.
>
> The Ethernet cable isn't at fault, either.  Even when I move the Ethernet cable connection from my desktop to my laptop,
> my laptop still won't connect with the DSL modem.
>
> Given that I can safely rule out the DSL modem and Ethernet cable as culprits, does this mean the NIC card in my laptop
> is dead?  If I need to replace the NIC card, what should I buy, and where can I buy it?  On the one hand, I'd be inclined
> to get the same NIC card.  On the other hand, I'm not happy that this one died on me in less than 4 years.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2411 - Release Date: 10/04/09 18:42:00
>



From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Sun Oct  4 23:25:03 2009
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 23:25:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1254675602.6053.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1254675602.6053.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <25f02f40910042125teaee553k76475ab3f6226111@mail.gmail.com>

 1. Any python programmers out there have advice for a new guy ?
 I own and have read beginning python, Mark Lutz,I also have the
pocket reference,
 And i am about 4 chapters into Programming python , Mark Lutz, I have
foundations of  python network programming as well and will read when
I finish Programming python.
I can currently do some in out direction and scripting.
Also I am just starting school at brown college for networking.
Any advice at all would be helpful.

2.Is there a T.C. programmers user group ?

3.Any one have a nokia S60 series mobile phone they program with python ?

4. If you write scripts day to day in any language, What is your most
used script?

5. Penguins unbound Ubuntu 9.10 release party ?  ['The last one was
fun ! I met some cool people and learned some interesting things as
well']

'import this'

Thanks Guys Ron.




On 10/4/09, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
<tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
>       (auditodd at comcast.net)
>    2. Re: HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work? (Chuck Cole)
>    3. Upcoming meeting times and locations? (Jason Hsu)
>    4. Re: Upcoming meeting times and locations? (Paul Cutler)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 19:59:49 +0000 (UTC)
> From: auditodd at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
> To: Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<1029806109.1634511254599989563.JavaMail.root at sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Buy a better (more Linux friendly) wireless card?
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> I had two Linksys PCMCIA cards. One worked, one didn't.
> Fought for hours with the one that didn't and finally gave up and sold it to
> someone who needed wireless on a Windows laptop.
>
> It's just easier to buy a card that is known to work with Linux.
>
> I think I still have the PCMCIA card in a drawer somewhere.
> I don't have a laptop any more that supports PCMCIA.
>
> ----------
> Todd Young
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Hsu" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 5:31:25 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
>
> I have a Linksys WPC54GS v1.1, and I'm trying to install it in Ubuntu.  I
> have the weight of the world on my shoulders, because this is for an IEEE
> study group called Project Phoenix (group working on an open source blood
> pressure monitor), and everyone else has little or no Linux experience.
>
> I've done Google searches on how to install this wireless card.  I go
> through the procedures (like ndiswrapper and bcm43xx-fwcutter, but the mumbo
> jumbo either don't work, or there's one little thing in them that I can't
> do, and I can't figure out why not.
>
> I have used a Linksys WUSB54GC in Puppy Linux in the past, and it worked
> right out of the box.
>
> What's wrong?  Where can I get a general understanding of how things work
> without wading through tons of mumbo jumbo?
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:44:43 -0500
> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
> To: "Jason Hsu" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEFECPAA.cncole at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> I found Ubuntu to be very smart about finding and fitting drivers for
> wireless stuff.  As I recall, Ubuntu prompted me clearly for
> all the things it initially thought were mysteries, and I was able to select
> proprietary or non-proprietary drivers at my option.
> The cards I remember having setup issues with were Intel units sold for Dell
> (and others).  I selected proprietary drivers that I
> use in XP and Ubuntu was happy to adapt and run them.  On an Ubuntu upgrade,
> I had to do it again,  but it was a BTDT session.
> Subsequent Ubuntu updates have not affected any of my drivers.
>
> Easiest when one does a fresh new install where Ubuntu is looking for all
> drivers, but easy and maybe the same if using the "install
> new hardware" thing, whatever it's called.
>
> If all else fails, I have a Proxim Orinoco Gold PCMCIA a, b, g card for sale
> that is about the best and most commonly compatible
> thing you can find.  Actual Linux drivers are available for this card.
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of
>> auditodd at comcast.net
>> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 3:00 PM
>> To: Jason Hsu
>> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HELP! How do I get a wireless card to work?
>>
>>
>> Buy a better (more Linux friendly) wireless card?
>>
>> Sorry, couldn't resist.
>> I had two Linksys PCMCIA cards. One worked, one didn't.
>> Fought for hours with the one that didn't and finally gave up and sold it
>> to someone who needed wireless on a Windows laptop.
>>
>> It's just easier to buy a card that is known to work with Linux.
>>
>> I think I still have the PCMCIA card in a drawer somewhere.
>> I don't have a laptop any more that supports PCMCIA.
>>
>> ----------
>> Todd Young
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jason Hsu" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 5:31:25 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>> Subject: [tclug-list] HELP!  How do I get a wireless card to work?
>>
>> I have a Linksys WPC54GS v1.1, and I'm trying to install it in Ubuntu.  I
>> have the weight of the world on my shoulders,
>> because this is for an IEEE study group called Project Phoenix (group
>> working on an open source blood pressure monitor),
>> and everyone else has little or no Linux experience.
>>
>> I've done Google searches on how to install this wireless card.  I go
>> through the procedures (like ndiswrapper and
>> bcm43xx-fwcutter, but the mumbo jumbo either don't work, or there's one
>> little thing in them that I can't do, and I can't
>> figure out why not.
>>
>> I have used a Linksys WUSB54GC in Puppy Linux in the past, and it worked
>> right out of the box.
>>
>> What's wrong?  Where can I get a general understanding of how things work
>> without wading through tons of mumbo jumbo?
>>
>> --
>> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 20:51:04 +0800
> From: Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Upcoming meeting times and locations?
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20091003205104.d520c7e3.jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Where and when are the meeting times and locations of upcoming Linux user
> groups in the Twin Cities and St. Cloud?
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 07:22:40 -0500
> From: Paul Cutler <pcutler at gnome.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Upcoming meeting times and locations?
> To: Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<39428b2a0910040522h71c76502u7f840d6000f7057 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The TCLUG hasn't had a meeting for a while, though the Penguins Unbound LUG
> in St. Paul meets the last Sat. of every month.
>
> Not sure about St. Cloud.
>
> Paul
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
>
>> Where and when are the meeting times and locations of upcoming Linux user
>> groups in the Twin Cities and St. Cloud?
>>
>> --
>> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
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> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20091004/3038e57e/attachment.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4
> *****************************************
>


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Sun Oct  4 18:42:37 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 07:42:37 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEFGCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20091004203848.938deeb7.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEFGCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

Rebooting with the AC power connected and the Ethernet cable connected doesn't help.  What is the mechanism that turns the NIC card on and off?  I have both Windows XP and Puppy Linux on the computer, and I'm unable to connect to the Internet with either OS.  How do I tell if the NIC card is dead or merely asleep?

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:53:28 -0500
"Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:

> It's probably OK and just trying to help you save battery life according to some odd defaults.  My Dell Latitude D's have some power
> saving defaults and options that will make the NIC turn off at odd times.  Various network setup options restore these after I have
> disabled them.  Mine are mainly associated with docking and undocking and whether the wireless or wired NIC is active.
> 
> Rebooting with the AC power module connected and the LAN connected should make it wake up properly.  Track down all the BIOS and NIC
> driver setup options after that.
> 
> 


From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon Oct  5 08:06:44 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:06:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:43 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
>
>
> Rebooting with the AC power connected and the Ethernet cable connected doesn't help.  What is the mechanism that turns
> the NIC card on and off?  I have both Windows XP and Puppy Linux on the computer, and I'm unable to connect to the
> Internet with either OS.  How do I tell if the NIC card is dead or merely asleep?

If that didn't work, you may have the NIC turned off in BIOS.  I can't recall what could do that without you knowing if it had
previously been on, but I think I have experienced exactly that before.   Otherwise, Use XP (because I know that has all the
visibility needed, and I didn't locate similar visibility in Ubuntu when I had a problem with Ubuntu's low level setup... it's
probably there, just not in a familiar form.).  I think the options are in advanced power management and/or docking options.  I know
there is a docking option that turns off the NIC sometimes, but can't recall whether that resides in BIOS.

Chuck





From johntrammell at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 08:41:22 2009
From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John Trammell)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:41:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <25f02f40910042125teaee553k76475ab3f6226111@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1254675602.6053.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<25f02f40910042125teaee553k76475ab3f6226111@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68dbb6fe0910050641g52c42d1ax2e128e7c78a47142@mail.gmail.com>

There is a local Python programmer's group:
http://groups.google.com/group/pymntos

Best luck,
J
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Mon Oct  5 08:56:45 2009
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:56:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Programmers (was Re: tclug-list Digest, Vol 58,
	Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3035.1254716752.2412.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3035.1254716752.2412.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4AC9FB1D.2060907@twp-llc.com>

Here are some tips, r,

- If you have a new question, start a new thread so others can find it 
in the archives later.
- Don't include anything you don't need to include.
- I'm a programmer, but not Python, so I can't give specific advice there.
- There are handfuls of programmers groups in the Twin Cities area:
  Ruby Users of Minnesota - http://ruby.mn/
  Twin Cities Dot Net User Group - http://www.ilmservice.com/twincitiesnet/
  PHP - http://www.tcphp.org/
  Languages - 
http://www.twincitieslanguagesusergroup.com/TCLUG/Default.aspx (another 
TCLUG?!?)
Lisp, ColdFusion, Java, etc...
  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=twin+cities+programmer+group

Chris

> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 23:25:03 -0500
> From: r j <ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<25f02f40910042125teaee553k76475ab3f6226111 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>  1. Any python programmers out there have advice for a new guy ?
>  I own and have read beginning python, Mark Lutz,I also have the
> pocket reference,
>  And i am about 4 chapters into Programming python , Mark Lutz, I have
> foundations of  python network programming as well and will read when
> I finish Programming python.
> I can currently do some in out direction and scripting.
> Also I am just starting school at brown college for networking.
> Any advice at all would be helpful.
>
> 2.Is there a T.C. programmers user group ?
>
> 3.Any one have a nokia S60 series mobile phone they program with python ?
>
> 4. If you write scripts day to day in any language, What is your most
> used script?
>
> 5. Penguins unbound Ubuntu 9.10 release party ?  ['The last one was
> fun ! I met some cool people and learned some interesting things as
> well']
>
> 'import this'
>
> Thanks Guys Ron.
>   



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Mon Oct  5 05:07:49 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 18:07:49 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I went into BIOS and made sure that the NIC card was enabled.  I booted up in Puppy Linux, and it now detects my NIC card, which wasn't the case yesterday.  I'm also seeing the LEDs on the Ethernet jack light up.  But I'm still unable to connect to the Internet on the laptop, and the Ethernet light on the DSL modem still remains dark.

Assuming that the NIC card is asleep and not dead, how do I wake it up?

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:06:44 -0500
"Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:

> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu
> > Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:43 PM
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
> >
> >
> > Rebooting with the AC power connected and the Ethernet cable connected doesn't help.  What is the mechanism that turns
> > the NIC card on and off?  I have both Windows XP and Puppy Linux on the computer, and I'm unable to connect to the
> > Internet with either OS.  How do I tell if the NIC card is dead or merely asleep?
> 
> If that didn't work, you may have the NIC turned off in BIOS.  I can't recall what could do that without you knowing if it had
> previously been on, but I think I have experienced exactly that before.   Otherwise, Use XP (because I know that has all the
> visibility needed, and I didn't locate similar visibility in Ubuntu when I had a problem with Ubuntu's low level setup... it's
> probably there, just not in a familiar form.).  I think the options are in advanced power management and/or docking options.  I know
> there is a docking option that turns off the NIC sometimes, but can't recall whether that resides in BIOS.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon Oct  5 19:17:21 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:17:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCIEIEPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Can't say exactly, but you are on the right track since you got it awakened.  Now that it's awakened, there may be some dumb extra
step to make it the selected NIC option.  My WiFi and LAN connections in 6 assorted Dell models get temperamental like this now and
then, but I have learned to fiddle somehow and get things on the right track.  It's logical and simple when the info is on screen,
but trivial enough so I haven;t committed it to my memory for recitations  :-)   Rebooting is often required when things get
confused and the right physical and logical connection states are set for the fresh reboot.  Keep trying things, and reboot after
setup changes.

Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Hsu [mailto:jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:08 AM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
>
>
> I went into BIOS and made sure that the NIC card was enabled.  I booted up in Puppy Linux, and it now detects my NIC
> card, which wasn't the case yesterday.  I'm also seeing the LEDs on the Ethernet jack light up.  But I'm still unable to
> connect to the Internet on the laptop, and the Ethernet light on the DSL modem still remains dark.
>
> Assuming that the NIC card is asleep and not dead, how do I wake it up?
>
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:06:44 -0500
> "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:43 PM
> > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
> > >
> > >
> > > Rebooting with the AC power connected and the Ethernet cable connected doesn't help.  What is the mechanism that turns
> > > the NIC card on and off?  I have both Windows XP and Puppy Linux on the computer, and I'm unable to connect to the
> > > Internet with either OS.  How do I tell if the NIC card is dead or merely asleep?
> >
> > If that didn't work, you may have the NIC turned off in BIOS.  I can't recall what could do that without you knowing if it had
> > previously been on, but I think I have experienced exactly that before.   Otherwise, Use XP (because I know that has all the
> > visibility needed, and I didn't locate similar visibility in Ubuntu when I had a problem with Ubuntu's low level setup... it's
> > probably there, just not in a familiar form.).  I think the options are in advanced power management and/or docking
> options.  I know
> > there is a docking option that turns off the NIC sometimes, but can't recall whether that resides in BIOS.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2415 - Release Date: 10/05/09 06:19:00
>



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Mon Oct  5 06:18:52 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:18:52 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I tried that command (ifconfig eth0 up) with the NIC card connected to the DSL modem, and nothing happened.  There were no error messages.  So does this mean that my NIC card died and I need to replace it?  Or is there something else I can do?

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:07:13 -0500
"Chris G." <thoth.serath at gmail.com> wrote:

> ifconfig eth1 up
> (assuming eth1 is your wireless cad)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:07 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> 
> > I went into BIOS and made sure that the NIC card was enabled.  I booted up
> > in Puppy Linux, and it now detects my NIC card, which wasn't the case
> > yesterday.  I'm also seeing the LEDs on the Ethernet jack light up.  But I'm
> > still unable to connect to the Internet on the laptop, and the Ethernet
> > light on the DSL modem still remains dark.
> >
> > Assuming that the NIC card is asleep and not dead, how do I wake it up?
> >
> > On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:06:44 -0500
> > "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:43 PM
> > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rebooting with the AC power connected and the Ethernet cable connected
> > doesn't help.  What is the mechanism that turns
> > > > the NIC card on and off?  I have both Windows XP and Puppy Linux on the
> > computer, and I'm unable to connect to the
> > > > Internet with either OS.  How do I tell if the NIC card is dead or
> > merely asleep?
> > >
> > > If that didn't work, you may have the NIC turned off in BIOS.  I can't
> > recall what could do that without you knowing if it had
> > > previously been on, but I think I have experienced exactly that before.
> > Otherwise, Use XP (because I know that has all the
> > > visibility needed, and I didn't locate similar visibility in Ubuntu when
> > I had a problem with Ubuntu's low level setup... it's
> > > probably there, just not in a familiar form.).  I think the options are
> > in advanced power management and/or docking options.  I know
> > > there is a docking option that turns off the NIC sometimes, but can't
> > recall whether that resides in BIOS.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> 


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Oct  5 20:32:58 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 01:32:58 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com><KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net><20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com><7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com><20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I would try using ethtool. It basically does and reads anything your eth cards have or can do. I don't know if its included in Ubuntu or whatever distro you are using but it is in suse enterprise 

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:18:52 
To: Chris G.<thoth.serath at gmail.com>
Cc: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?

I tried that command (ifconfig eth0 up) with the NIC card connected to the DSL modem, and nothing happened.  There were no error messages.  So does this mean that my NIC card died and I need to replace it?  Or is there something else I can do?

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:07:13 -0500
"Chris G." <thoth.serath at gmail.com> wrote:

> ifconfig eth1 up
> (assuming eth1 is your wireless cad)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:07 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> 
> > I went into BIOS and made sure that the NIC card was enabled.  I booted up
> > in Puppy Linux, and it now detects my NIC card, which wasn't the case
> > yesterday.  I'm also seeing the LEDs on the Ethernet jack light up.  But I'm
> > still unable to connect to the Internet on the laptop, and the Ethernet
> > light on the DSL modem still remains dark.
> >
> > Assuming that the NIC card is asleep and not dead, how do I wake it up?
> >
> > On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:06:44 -0500
> > "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:43 PM
> > > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rebooting with the AC power connected and the Ethernet cable connected
> > doesn't help.  What is the mechanism that turns
> > > > the NIC card on and off?  I have both Windows XP and Puppy Linux on the
> > computer, and I'm unable to connect to the
> > > > Internet with either OS.  How do I tell if the NIC card is dead or
> > merely asleep?
> > >
> > > If that didn't work, you may have the NIC turned off in BIOS.  I can't
> > recall what could do that without you knowing if it had
> > > previously been on, but I think I have experienced exactly that before.
> > Otherwise, Use XP (because I know that has all the
> > > visibility needed, and I didn't locate similar visibility in Ubuntu when
> > I had a problem with Ubuntu's low level setup... it's
> > > probably there, just not in a familiar form.).  I think the options are
> > in advanced power management and/or docking options.  I know
> > > there is a docking option that turns off the NIC sometimes, but can't
> > recall whether that resides in BIOS.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> 


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Mon Oct  5 08:28:15 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 21:28:15 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I tried "ethtool eth0" and got "no" for link detected.  I tried "ifconfig eth0" and did NOT get "UP" before "BROADCAST MULTICAST".

Is getting this NIC working a lost cause yet?  Do I need to start looking for a replacement?  Is there a mechanism to wake up a NIC that isn't lighting up the Ethernet light on a DSL modem and cable that still work fine with my desktop?

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 01:32:58 +0000
jus at krytosvirus.com wrote:

> I would try using ethtool. It basically does and reads anything your eth cards have or can do. I don't know if its included in Ubuntu or whatever distro you are using but it is in suse enterprise 
> 


From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon Oct  5 22:27:44 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:27:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEFJCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jason Hsu
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 8:28 AM
> To: jus at krytosvirus.com
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org; tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
>
>
> I tried "ethtool eth0" and got "no" for link detected.  I tried "ifconfig eth0" and did NOT get "UP" before "BROADCAST MULTICAST".
>
> Is getting this NIC working a lost cause yet?  Do I need to start looking for a replacement?  Is there a mechanism to
> wake up a NIC that isn't lighting up the Ethernet light on a DSL modem and cable that still work fine with my desktop?
>
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 01:32:58 +0000
> jus at krytosvirus.com wrote:
>
> > I would try using ethtool. It basically does and reads anything your eth cards have or can do. I don't know if its
> included in Ubuntu or whatever distro you are using but it is in suse enterprise
> >


 If you can call Dell tech support, they will help by phone with the Windows side of this and that should reveal all.  If you had a
legally owned Latitude (ie, Service Tag registered/transferred to you), you would have lifetime tech support regardless of warranty.
Not all other models have this but it's worth trying anyway.  They have a user forum that you could ask in any case.

I really doubt that a general Linux utility has ALL the tricks of Dell's pro series that would include extra states with two
physically different docking stations, and so on.  The LAN connection passes through the docks, and an undock request is usually a
request to switch from LAN to battery-operated WiFi, thus the "help" with power saving.  In my case, this NIC behavior is associated
with physical docking states unique to Dell.  Some HP printers have trouble with USB connection states in these cases also.  Having
all those features is much to ask of a Linux utility just intended for basic NIC support.  While you may not need or call on all
this, it's still part of the Dell state space (for models with docking it is; dunno otherwise).


Chuck


---

Buying the right computer and getting it to work properly is no more complicated than
    building a nuclear reactor from wristwatch parts in a darkened room using only your teeth.

                                                                              - Dave Barry (1947 - )







From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct  6 10:13:11 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:13:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
Message-ID: <4ACB5E87.4060302@lctn.org>

I am working with VLC on Linux Mint, and need help determining what 
frequencies (KHz) are assigned to channels 4,8, and 13. Is there a good 
doc on this?


From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com  Tue Oct  6 11:18:00 2009
From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 11:18:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <4ACB5E87.4060302@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCAE88@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>

I use wireless microphones for my community theatre musicals.  Those
microphones operate on the unused TV channel frequencies.  I have found
lots of that type of information on the wireless microphone
manufacturers' websites.  I use lots of Audio Technica gear, so that the
site I normally visit.

Larry
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
> linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:13 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> 
> I am working with VLC on Linux Mint, and need help determining what
> frequencies (KHz) are assigned to channels 4,8, and 13. Is there a
good
> doc on this?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  6 13:45:17 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:45:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCAE88@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Sounds like megaHertz is more appropriate than kiloHertz if it's a wireless service.  Channel numbers are associated with a
particular type of service: look up THAT spec.  Google tells me that VLC is for audio-visual media handling for various types of
digital encoding like MP3, OGG, etc.  In that case, "channels" doesn't make any sense to me.  cf
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html  Hope this is some help.



Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Larry R. Pint
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:18 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> I use wireless microphones for my community theatre musicals.  Those
> microphones operate on the unused TV channel frequencies.  I have found
> lots of that type of information on the wireless microphone
> manufacturers' websites.  I use lots of Audio Technica gear, so that the
> site I normally visit.
>
> Larry
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
> > linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:13 AM
> > To: TCLUG List
> > Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> >
> > I am working with VLC on Linux Mint, and need help determining what
> > frequencies (KHz) are assigned to channels 4,8, and 13. Is there a
> good
> > doc on this?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: 10/06/09 06:50:00
>



From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct  6 14:30:49 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:30:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4ACB9AE9.80300@lctn.org>

In Linux, VLC uses kHz for capturing from a TV tuner. Our cable provider 
uses VHF channels 4, 8, and 13 to feed video to our TVs. If my research 
is correct channel 13 is 211.25 mHz, or 211250 kHz. I haven't gotten it 
to work yet, which is why I wanted to be sure the frequency I am using 
is right.  I can view channel 13 on TVTime, so I know the tuner is 
working correctly.


Chuck Cole wrote:
> Sounds like megaHertz is more appropriate than kiloHertz if it's a wireless service.  Channel numbers are associated with a
> particular type of service: look up THAT spec.  Google tells me that VLC is for audio-visual media handling for various types of
> digital encoding like MP3, OGG, etc.  In that case, "channels" doesn't make any sense to me.  cf
> http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html  Hope this is some help.
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Larry R. Pint
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:18 AM
>> To: TCLUG List
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>>
>>
>> I use wireless microphones for my community theatre musicals.  Those
>> microphones operate on the unused TV channel frequencies.  I have found
>> lots of that type of information on the wireless microphone
>> manufacturers' websites.  I use lots of Audio Technica gear, so that the
>> site I normally visit.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
>>> linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:13 AM
>>> To: TCLUG List
>>> Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>>>
>>> I am working with VLC on Linux Mint, and need help determining what
>>> frequencies (KHz) are assigned to channels 4,8, and 13. Is there a
>> good
>>> doc on this?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: 10/06/09 06:50:00
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Oct  6 14:45:48 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:45:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <4ACB9AE9.80300@lctn.org>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<4ACB9AE9.80300@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <52C754E6D9114F3E9D4114A47533F143@usicorp.usinternet.com>

VHF High Band III
And
UHF Band

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=broadcast+television+frequencies

HTH


-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:31 PM
Cc: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies

In Linux, VLC uses kHz for capturing from a TV tuner. Our cable provider 
uses VHF channels 4, 8, and 13 to feed video to our TVs. If my research 
is correct channel 13 is 211.25 mHz, or 211250 kHz. I haven't gotten it 
to work yet, which is why I wanted to be sure the frequency I am using 
is right.  I can view channel 13 on TVTime, so I know the tuner is 
working correctly.


Chuck Cole wrote:
> Sounds like megaHertz is more appropriate than kiloHertz if it's a
wireless service.  Channel numbers are associated with a
> particular type of service: look up THAT spec.  Google tells me that VLC
is for audio-visual media handling for various types of
> digital encoding like MP3, OGG, etc.  In that case, "channels" doesn't
make any sense to me.  cf
> http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html  Hope this is some help.
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Larry R. Pint
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:18 AM
>> To: TCLUG List
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>>
>>
>> I use wireless microphones for my community theatre musicals.  Those
>> microphones operate on the unused TV channel frequencies.  I have found
>> lots of that type of information on the wireless microphone
>> manufacturers' websites.  I use lots of Audio Technica gear, so that the
>> site I normally visit.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
>>> linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:13 AM
>>> To: TCLUG List
>>> Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>>>
>>> I am working with VLC on Linux Mint, and need help determining what
>>> frequencies (KHz) are assigned to channels 4,8, and 13. Is there a
>> good
>>> doc on this?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: 10/06/09
06:50:00
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  6 15:59:28 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:59:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <4ACB9AE9.80300@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and demodulate) TV
channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.  A typical VHS
tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but does not have a
direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an analog-to-digital conversion
must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but your language
isn't stating that.

Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:31 PM
> Cc: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> In Linux, VLC uses kHz for capturing from a TV tuner. Our cable provider
> uses VHF channels 4, 8, and 13 to feed video to our TVs. If my research
> is correct channel 13 is 211.25 mHz, or 211250 kHz. I haven't gotten it
> to work yet, which is why I wanted to be sure the frequency I am using
> is right.  I can view channel 13 on TVTime, so I know the tuner is
> working correctly.
>
>
> Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Sounds like megaHertz is more appropriate than kiloHertz if it's a wireless service.  Channel numbers are associated with a
> > particular type of service: look up THAT spec.  Google tells me that VLC is for audio-visual media handling for various types of
> > digital encoding like MP3, OGG, etc.  In that case, "channels" doesn't make any sense to me.  cf
> > http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html  Hope this is some help.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Larry R. Pint
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:18 AM
> >> To: TCLUG List
> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> >>
> >>
> >> I use wireless microphones for my community theatre musicals.  Those
> >> microphones operate on the unused TV channel frequencies.  I have found
> >> lots of that type of information on the wireless microphone
> >> manufacturers' websites.  I use lots of Audio Technica gear, so that the
> >> site I normally visit.
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
> >>> linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:13 AM
> >>> To: TCLUG List
> >>> Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> >>>
> >>> I am working with VLC on Linux Mint, and need help determining what
> >>> frequencies (KHz) are assigned to channels 4,8, and 13. Is there a
> >> good
> >>> doc on this?
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: 10/06/09 06:50:00
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: 10/06/09 06:50:00
>



From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct  6 18:56:20 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:56:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4ACBD924.8010200@lctn.org>

I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well 
enough that you knew what I meant





Chuck Cole wrote:
> Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and demodulate) TV
> channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.  A typical VHS
> tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but does not have a
> direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an analog-to-digital conversion
> must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but your language
> isn't stating that.
>
> Chuck
>   
>   


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct  6 21:11:39 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:11:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 3ware Escalade question
Message-ID: <4ACBF8DB.9010003@lctn.org>

I am setting up a new  Ubuntu 8.4 server. The box has a 3ware Escalade 
7000 series raid card. From checking around it is supported, but I am 
not positive the install is seeing the raid 1 I have set up. When I 
reach the manual partition screen it says it found a single 3ware 
logical drive. I assume that means it found the raid controller, but 
would like someone to confirm my assumption is correct before continuing 
with the install.





From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Oct  6 08:16:16 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:16:16 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910062107270.20124@admin.det.technicality.org>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910062107270.20124@admin.det.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <20091006211616.7906a0b0.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

Nothing happened when I typed "ifconfig eth0 up", not even an error message.  Ethtool still gives no for "link detected", and the Ethernet light in the DSL modem still stays dark.  Is it time to give up on this NIC card yet, or is there something else I can do?

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:07:59 -0500 (CDT)
Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:

> If "ifconfig eth0" doesn't say 'UP', try doing an 'ifconfig eth0 up' 
> first, then do the ethtool to see if it gets a link.
> 
-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Tue Oct  6 21:07:59 2009
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:07:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910062107270.20124@admin.det.technicality.org>

If "ifconfig eth0" doesn't say 'UP', try doing an 'ifconfig eth0 up' 
first, then do the ethtool to see if it gets a link.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009, Jason Hsu wrote:
> I tried "ethtool eth0" and got "no" for link detected.  I tried 
> "ifconfig eth0" and did NOT get "UP" before "BROADCAST MULTICAST".
>
> Is getting this NIC working a lost cause yet?  Do I need to start 
> looking for a replacement?  Is there a mechanism to wake up a NIC that 
> isn't lighting up the Ethernet light on a DSL modem and cable that still 
> work fine with my desktop?
>
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 01:32:58 +0000
> jus at krytosvirus.com wrote:
>
>> I would try using ethtool. It basically does and reads anything your eth cards have or can do. I don't know if its included in Ubuntu or whatever distro you are using but it is in suse enterprise
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From mike at mikerochford.com  Tue Oct  6 21:43:39 2009
From: mike at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:43:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 3ware Escalade question
In-Reply-To: <4ACBF8DB.9010003@lctn.org>
References: <4ACBF8DB.9010003@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <406189300910061943x3dec2e0dvcaaa541b4fe773c@mail.gmail.com>

Raymond,

Download the CLI tool from 3ware. You should be able to verify all
information for your raid controller.

http://www.3ware.com/support/downloadpageprod.asp?pcode=3&path=Escalade7000Series&prodname=3ware%207000%20Series

-Mike

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> I am setting up a new  Ubuntu 8.4 server. The box has a 3ware Escalade
> 7000 series raid card. From checking around it is supported, but I am
> not positive the install is seeing the raid 1 I have set up. When I
> reach the manual partition screen it says it found a single 3ware
> logical drive. I assume that means it found the raid controller, but
> would like someone to confirm my assumption is correct before continuing
> with the install.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct  6 22:31:11 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:31:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <4ACBD924.8010200@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEFNCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

That never appeared in your stuff anywhere I could see it.

Capturing from a "TV tuner" would be an analog video baseband signal.  Capturing from a tuner card in a PC would be digitized after
A/D conversion.  Neither of those signal types match your descriptions.  Neither has channels in the signal, or mere kilohertz
bandwidth.

Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 6:56 PM
> Cc: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well
> enough that you knew what I meant
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and
> demodulate) TV
> > channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.
> A typical VHS
> > tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but does
> not have a
> > direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an analog-to-digital
> conversion
> > must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but
> your language
> > isn't stating that.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: 10/06/09 18:34:00
>



From erikerik at gmail.com  Tue Oct  6 22:53:19 2009
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:53:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091006211616.7906a0b0.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910062107270.20124@admin.det.technicality.org>
	<20091006211616.7906a0b0.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <fc40260f0910062053q27574992p9a5169f347827e21@mail.gmail.com>

I can't recall - has a driver issue been ruled out? You could try
booting from a ubuntu live cd (or knoppix or whatever)and see if the
nic comes up then.

-erik

On 10/6/09, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> Nothing happened when I typed "ifconfig eth0 up", not even an error message.
>  Ethtool still gives no for "link detected", and the Ethernet light in the
> DSL modem still stays dark.  Is it time to give up on this NIC card yet, or
> is there something else I can do?
>
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:07:59 -0500 (CDT)
> Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
>
>> If "ifconfig eth0" doesn't say 'UP', try doing an 'ifconfig eth0 up'
>> first, then do the ethtool to see if it gets a link.
>>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
Erik Anderson
http://andersonfam.org


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Oct  6 18:24:19 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 07:24:19 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <fc40260f0910062053q27574992p9a5169f347827e21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFHCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910062107270.20124@admin.det.technicality.org>
	<20091006211616.7906a0b0.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<fc40260f0910062053q27574992p9a5169f347827e21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091007072419.acf1b05a.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I wasn't able to get the Ethernet light to come on under Windows XP, Puppy Linux (frugal installation), or Puppy Linux (live CD).  Thus, my problem is not specific to the OS.  Since the computer only has 256 MB of RAM, I doubt that I could run Knoppix or a Ubuntu live CD.  Until this past weekend, the Internet connection was just fine under Windows XP or Puppy Linux (frugal or live CD).

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:53:19 -0500
Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can't recall - has a driver issue been ruled out? You could try
> booting from a ubuntu live cd (or knoppix or whatever)and see if the
> nic comes up then.
> 
> -erik
> 
> On 10/6/09, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> > Nothing happened when I typed "ifconfig eth0 up", not even an error message.
> >  Ethtool still gives no for "link detected", and the Ethernet light in the
> > DSL modem still stays dark.  Is it time to give up on this NIC card yet, or
> > is there something else I can do?
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:07:59 -0500 (CDT)
> > Nate Carlson <tclug at natecarlson.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If "ifconfig eth0" doesn't say 'UP', try doing an 'ifconfig eth0 up'
> >> first, then do the ethtool to see if it gets a link.
> >>
> > --
> > Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Erik Anderson
> http://andersonfam.org


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From sfertch at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 07:56:33 2009
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 07:56:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <20091007072419.acf1b05a.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910062107270.20124@admin.det.technicality.org>
	<20091006211616.7906a0b0.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<fc40260f0910062053q27574992p9a5169f347827e21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091007072419.acf1b05a.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <67f3084a0910070556n460e859anedf9abbb1d53dbad@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> I wasn't able to get the Ethernet light to come on under Windows XP, Puppy
> Linux (frugal installation), or Puppy Linux (live CD).  Thus, my problem is
> not specific to the OS.  Since the computer only has 256 MB of RAM, I doubt
> that I could run Knoppix or a Ubuntu live CD.  Until this past weekend, the
> Internet connection was just fine under Windows XP or Puppy Linux (frugal or
> live CD).


Have you verified that the network cable and switch/hub port are good?  Were
there any lightning or electrical surges/outages recently that might have
taken out your networking device?  Do you have another system you can plug
your current connection into and see if it works?

Apologies if you've already covered this in a prior e-mail.  Just wanted to
mention this in case it wasn't already.

For a lightweight "Live" CD/USB distro:  http://www.slax.org/

-- 
-Shawn
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From poptix at poptix.net  Wed Oct  7 10:42:25 2009
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:42:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <4ACBD924.8010200@lctn.org>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEFLCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<4ACBD924.8010200@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <1254930145.3810.5.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>

You're looking for this:

http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html

Cable uses slightly different frequencies than VHF/UHF, and depending on
if it's a Standard, IRC, or HRC system they differ on the cable system. 

Unless you've moved out of BFE Minnesota, you'll probably have to try
all three cable standards and hope for the best. It's most definitely
NOT actually VHF broadcast frequencies though. 

On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 18:56 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
> I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well 
> enough that you knew what I meant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and demodulate) TV
> > channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.  A typical VHS
> > tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but does not have a
> > direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an analog-to-digital conversion
> > must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but your language
> > isn't stating that.
> >
> > Chuck
> >   
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Oct  6 23:33:38 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:33:38 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Is my NIC card dead?
In-Reply-To: <67f3084a0910070556n460e859anedf9abbb1d53dbad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091005074237.718fdec5.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<20091005180749.30f4938e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<7c055dc50910051707n1bc15e11hf2d1569d88ac55a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091005191852.98668a76.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<44246126-1254792926-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1518963924-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<20091005212815.27e8d62e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910062107270.20124@admin.det.technicality.org>
	<20091006211616.7906a0b0.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<fc40260f0910062053q27574992p9a5169f347827e21@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091007072419.acf1b05a.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<67f3084a0910070556n460e859anedf9abbb1d53dbad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091007123338.0830c24d.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

The same DSL modem and Ethernet cable work with my desktop computer, so the problem is specific to the laptop.  I don't recall any recent lightning or electrical surges or outages.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 07:56:33 -0500
Shawn Fertch <sfertch at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> 
> > I wasn't able to get the Ethernet light to come on under Windows XP, Puppy
> > Linux (frugal installation), or Puppy Linux (live CD).  Thus, my problem is
> > not specific to the OS.  Since the computer only has 256 MB of RAM, I doubt
> > that I could run Knoppix or a Ubuntu live CD.  Until this past weekend, the
> > Internet connection was just fine under Windows XP or Puppy Linux (frugal or
> > live CD).
> 
> 
> Have you verified that the network cable and switch/hub port are good?  Were
> there any lightning or electrical surges/outages recently that might have
> taken out your networking device?  Do you have another system you can plug
> your current connection into and see if it works?
> 
> Apologies if you've already covered this in a prior e-mail.  Just wanted to
> mention this in case it wasn't already.
> 
> For a lightweight "Live" CD/USB distro:  http://www.slax.org/
> 
> -- 
> -Shawn
> 


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Oct  7 13:13:52 2009
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:13:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Any Freelance HD Recovery Tinkerers Here?
Message-ID: <20091007131352.0b10acc8@sinkhole>

Ugh,

I never thought to regularly backup my parent's OpenSuSE install
like I do my own PC's and had a hard drive go bad.

Sent to Geek Squad and called Ontrack - both places are asking for
over $1600 to do recovery.  I can't afford that kind of cash for my
mom's digital camera pictures as much as I want to get them back for
her.

If anyone here (or knows someone who) likes to tinker with HD data
recovery contact me off list - I can pay for your efforts.  I've
thought about buying a duplicate HD and trying to swap the platters -
but I've never done it before so if you have I would love to hire
some local help...

Thanks,

Josh


From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 13:26:01 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:26:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Any Freelance HD Recovery Tinkerers Here?
In-Reply-To: <20091007131352.0b10acc8@sinkhole>
References: <20091007131352.0b10acc8@sinkhole>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70910071126g14b13828rb59410a97dcc06f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> Ugh,
>
> I never thought to regularly backup my parent's OpenSuSE install
> like I do my own PC's and had a hard drive go bad.
>
> Sent to Geek Squad and called Ontrack - both places are asking for
> over $1600 to do recovery. ?I can't afford that kind of cash for my
> mom's digital camera pictures as much as I want to get them back for
> her.
>
> If anyone here (or knows someone who) likes to tinker with HD data
> recovery contact me off list - I can pay for your efforts. ?I've
> thought about buying a duplicate HD and trying to swap the platters -
> but I've never done it before so if you have I would love to hire
> some local help...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


The current condition of the drive is really going to dictate what you
will be able to do with the drive.  Is it making noise, does it spin
up, is it readable by the operating system?

If you do want to look back in the professional realm we tend to refer
people to Gillware in Madison, WI.  They do mail-in service for much
less than what Ontrack would charge.

http://www.gillware.net


-- 
Donovan Niesen


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Wed Oct  7 13:24:23 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:24:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Any Freelance HD Recovery Tinkerers Here?
In-Reply-To: <20091007131352.0b10acc8@sinkhole>
References: <20091007131352.0b10acc8@sinkhole>
Message-ID: <4ACCDCD7.6070902@cwis.biz>

ESS in Woodbury might be more affordable...

http://www.datarecovery.com/


*_Minneapolis-St. Paul Address_*

ESS Data Recovery, Inc.
6043 Hudson Rd.
Suite 275
Woodbury, MN 55125
Phone: * 1.800.237.4200

--
Ryan
*
Josh Trutwin wrote:
> Ugh,
>
> I never thought to regularly backup my parent's OpenSuSE install
> like I do my own PC's and had a hard drive go bad.
>
> Sent to Geek Squad and called Ontrack - both places are asking for
> over $1600 to do recovery.  I can't afford that kind of cash for my
> mom's digital camera pictures as much as I want to get them back for
> her.
>
> If anyone here (or knows someone who) likes to tinker with HD data
> recovery contact me off list - I can pay for your efforts.  I've
> thought about buying a duplicate HD and trying to swap the platters -
> but I've never done it before so if you have I would love to hire
> some local help...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 13:41:00 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:41:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <1254930145.3810.5.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEGACPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>


He may be looking for that, but his question was about VLC performence in Linux.  

Do you know how channels and frequencies are relevant within VLC ?

Chuck



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Matt Hallacy
> 
> You're looking for this:
> 
> http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html
> 
> Cable uses slightly different frequencies than VHF/UHF, and depending on
> if it's a Standard, IRC, or HRC system they differ on the cable system. 
> 
> Unless you've moved out of BFE Minnesota, you'll probably have to try
> all three cable standards and hope for the best. It's most definitely
> NOT actually VHF broadcast frequencies though. 
> 
> On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 18:56 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
> > I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well 
> > enough that you knew what I meant
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and 
> demodulate) TV
> > > channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces. 
>  A typical VHS
> > > tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but 
> does not have a
> > > direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an 
> analog-to-digital conversion
> > > must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but 
> your language
> > > isn't stating that.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >   
>
> 


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Oct  7 13:56:39 2009
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:56:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Any Freelance HD Recovery Tinkerers Here?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70910071126g14b13828rb59410a97dcc06f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091007131352.0b10acc8@sinkhole>
	<47f4d5e70910071126g14b13828rb59410a97dcc06f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091007135639.1f0b85ee@sinkhole>

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:26:01 -0500
Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> The current condition of the drive is really going to dictate what
> you will be able to do with the drive.  Is it making noise, does it
> spin up, is it readable by the operating system?

Thanks - neglected that important information.

Basically click-of-death kind of scenario.  I tried an overnight
freeze in a ziplock - no love.  

I called Geek Squad back and asked if they actually had a diagnosis
of what was wrong with the drive - they hadn't even opened it up.
Had I known that I would've never sent the thing in cause obviously
there's a mechanical problem.  So I don't know if it's a head problem
or a circuit board problem or what.  :/

> If you do want to look back in the professional realm we tend to
> refer people to Gillware in Madison, WI.  They do mail-in service
> for much less than what Ontrack would charge.
> 
> http://www.gillware.net

Thanks - I'll check into some other places but I'm guessing still
gonna be out of my range.

/kicks myself some more...

Josh


From tclug at natecarlson.com  Wed Oct  7 13:59:45 2009
From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:59:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEGACPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEGACPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910071359220.26940@admin.det.technicality.org>

VLC can display video from your TV tuner card.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:
> He may be looking for that, but his question was about VLC performence in Linux.
>
> Do you know how channels and frequencies are relevant within VLC ?
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Matt Hallacy
>>
>> You're looking for this:
>>
>> http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html
>>
>> Cable uses slightly different frequencies than VHF/UHF, and depending on
>> if it's a Standard, IRC, or HRC system they differ on the cable system.
>>
>> Unless you've moved out of BFE Minnesota, you'll probably have to try
>> all three cable standards and hope for the best. It's most definitely
>> NOT actually VHF broadcast frequencies though.
>>
>> On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 18:56 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
>>> I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well
>>> enough that you knew what I meant
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck Cole wrote:
>>>> Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and
>> demodulate) TV
>>>> channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.
>>  A typical VHS
>>>> tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but
>> does not have a
>>>> direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an
>> analog-to-digital conversion
>>>> must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but
>> your language
>>>> isn't stating that.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Oct  7 14:03:35 2009
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:03:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Any Freelance HD Recovery Tinkerers Here?
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc0910071159o18c65aarddb1c558487f0d11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091007131352.0b10acc8@sinkhole> <4ACCDCD7.6070902@cwis.biz>
	<cac10ddc0910071159i31e990b3oe2036c0bc4154afb@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc0910071159o18c65aarddb1c558487f0d11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091007140335.03b0243f@sinkhole>

> It's possible the drive is damaged/corrupted in such a way that it
> can't boot, but could be accessed if mounted as 2nd drive. ?Have you
> tried booting off of a Knoppix live CD to see if you can mount the
> file system off the drive? ?If so you could possibly copy the images
> off the drive...

Yup - sorry to forget that - I tried to mount it post-boot in a USB
enclosure - it's a mechanical failure.  Clicking.

I'm more looking to see if someone here has ever done head
and/or circuit board replacemen.  If I could find an exact matching
drive if someone would care to attempt the mechanical steps if
they've done it before....

Thanks,

Josh


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 14:28:31 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:28:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910071359220.26940@admin.det.technicality.org>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEKLPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

That is clear in the link I originally quoted, since it's identified as a capable of playing OGG, MP3, etc, and those digital data
files may contain such data.  However, display of data and demodulation of frequencies are not the same sorts of things.  Knowing
channel numbers and frequencies doesn't seem to have any intrinsic interface relevance to VLC even if such data can be displayed
from the digital data formats.

Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nate Carlson [mailto:tclug at natecarlson.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 2:00 PM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: Matt Hallacy; TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> VLC can display video from your TV tuner card.
>
> On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > He may be looking for that, but his question was about VLC performence in Linux.
> >
> > Do you know how channels and frequencies are relevant within VLC ?
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Matt Hallacy
> >>
> >> You're looking for this:
> >>
> >> http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html
> >>
> >> Cable uses slightly different frequencies than VHF/UHF, and depending on
> >> if it's a Standard, IRC, or HRC system they differ on the cable system.
> >>
> >> Unless you've moved out of BFE Minnesota, you'll probably have to try
> >> all three cable standards and hope for the best. It's most definitely
> >> NOT actually VHF broadcast frequencies though.
> >>
> >> On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 18:56 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
> >>> I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well
> >>> enough that you knew what I meant
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Chuck Cole wrote:
> >>>> Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and
> >> demodulate) TV
> >>>> channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.
> >>  A typical VHS
> >>>> tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but
> >> does not have a
> >>>> direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an
> >> analog-to-digital conversion
> >>>> must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but
> >> your language
> >>>> isn't stating that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chuck
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.5/2419 - Release Date: 10/07/09 05:18:00
>



From andyzib at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 14:32:41 2009
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 14:32:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 3ware Escalade question
In-Reply-To: <406189300910061943x3dec2e0dvcaaa541b4fe773c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ACBF8DB.9010003@lctn.org>
	<406189300910061943x3dec2e0dvcaaa541b4fe773c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac45c240910071232v10ce7b6ag2aa03b6936624348@mail.gmail.com>

The 3ware Escalade is a hardware RAID card. You create the array using
the 3ware's firmware. The 3ware card then presents the array to Linux
(or any OS) as a single SCSI, PATA, or SATA drive. You won't see the
individual drives in the OS without software provided by the RAID
card's vendor.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com


From strayf at freeshell.org  Wed Oct  7 14:50:46 2009
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:50:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEKLPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEKLPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4ACCF116.80008@freeshell.org>

Chuck Cole wrote:
> That is clear in the link I originally quoted, since it's identified as a capable of playing OGG, MP3, etc, and those digital data
> files may contain such data.  However, display of data and demodulation of frequencies are not the same sorts of things.  Knowing
> channel numbers and frequencies doesn't seem to have any intrinsic interface relevance to VLC even if such data can be displayed
> from the digital data formats.
> 
 > Chuck

I haven't used VLC much, but from the documentation it seems clear that it 
is able to drive tuner cards so frequencies would be relevant.

http://www.videolan.org/doc/streaming-howto/en/ch10.html


From florin at iucha.net  Wed Oct  7 15:10:54 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:10:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEKLPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910071359220.26940@admin.det.technicality.org>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCEEKLPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20091007201054.GC20918@iris.iucha.org>

On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 02:28:31PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> That is clear in the link I originally quoted, since it's identified as a capable of playing OGG, MP3, etc, and those digital data
> files may contain such data.  However, display of data and demodulation of frequencies are not the same sorts of things.  Knowing
> channel numbers and frequencies doesn't seem to have any intrinsic interface relevance to VLC even if such data can be displayed
> from the digital data formats.

Chuck,

VLC can play data coming from the file system, from the network, or
acquired from a TV or Radio Tuner.  For the latter, it can use a
device tuned by an external program, or allows you to tune it by
entering a desired frequency.  The original poster was asking
(maybe too briefly) what frequencies correspond to certain channels so
he can tune is RF receiver to those channels.

Cheers,
florin

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nate Carlson [mailto:tclug at natecarlson.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 2:00 PM
> > To: Chuck Cole
> > Cc: Matt Hallacy; TCLUG List
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> >
> >
> > VLC can display video from your TV tuner card.
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > He may be looking for that, but his question was about VLC performence in Linux.
> > >
> > > Do you know how channels and frequencies are relevant within VLC ?
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Matt Hallacy
> > >>
> > >> You're looking for this:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html
> > >>
> > >> Cable uses slightly different frequencies than VHF/UHF, and depending on
> > >> if it's a Standard, IRC, or HRC system they differ on the cable system.
> > >>
> > >> Unless you've moved out of BFE Minnesota, you'll probably have to try
> > >> all three cable standards and hope for the best. It's most definitely
> > >> NOT actually VHF broadcast frequencies though.
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 18:56 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
> > >>> I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well
> > >>> enough that you knew what I meant
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Chuck Cole wrote:
> > >>>> Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and
> > >> demodulate) TV
> > >>>> channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.
> > >>  A typical VHS
> > >>>> tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but
> > >> does not have a
> > >>>> direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an
> > >> analog-to-digital conversion
> > >>>> must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but
> > >> your language
> > >>>> isn't stating that.

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 15:38:55 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:38:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <4ACCF116.80008@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEGBCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Cayford
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 2:51 PM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> Chuck Cole wrote:
> > That is clear in the link I originally quoted, since it's identified as a capable of playing OGG, MP3, etc, and those
> digital data
> > files may contain such data.  However, display of data and demodulation of frequencies are not the same sorts of
> things.  Knowing
> > channel numbers and frequencies doesn't seem to have any intrinsic interface relevance to VLC even if such data can be displayed
> > from the digital data formats.
> >
>  > Chuck
>
> I haven't used VLC much, but from the documentation it seems clear that it
> is able to drive tuner cards so frequencies would be relevant.
>
> http://www.videolan.org/doc/streaming-howto/en/ch10.html

No: frequency selection in that is ONLY by choosing digital data, but not handling actual analog signals in any direct way.  It's
only a digital data format issue, and the data would be in some psuedo-code.  Frequency per se is not an issue, but digital encoding
format for that data type or the data format to read brand and model of tuner would be relevant.


Chuck
>



From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 15:46:29 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:46:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <20091007201054.GC20918@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEGBCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Florin Iucha
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:11 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 02:28:31PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > That is clear in the link I originally quoted, since it's identified as a capable of playing OGG, MP3, etc, and those
> digital data
> > files may contain such data.  However, display of data and demodulation of frequencies are not the same sorts of
> things.  Knowing
> > channel numbers and frequencies doesn't seem to have any intrinsic interface relevance to VLC even if such data can be displayed
> > from the digital data formats.
>
> Chuck,
>
> VLC can play data coming from the file system, from the network, or
> acquired from a TV or Radio Tuner.  For the latter, it can use a
> device tuned by an external program, or allows you to tune it by
> entering a desired frequency.  The original poster was asking
> (maybe too briefly) what frequencies correspond to certain channels so
> he can tune is RF receiver to those channels.
>
> Cheers,
> florin

Much better answer, but does he really have a tuner which indicates TV channels in kilohertz?  I seriouly doubt that any of us have
such an animal.  I have tuner cards, fancy USB connected tuners, and Slingplayer as well as ordinary TVs and VHS tape machines with
tuners that are all interfaced and none has any mention of actual TV frequencies.

I'm only pressing for technical clarity in what he needs or asked.  His context was stated as within VLC, and frequency domain
signals are NOT there.  He seems to need a mental or physical image of the block diagram for getting various data types fed to VLC
and to determine which block and interfaace is in question.


Chuck


> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nate Carlson [mailto:tclug at natecarlson.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 2:00 PM
> > > To: Chuck Cole
> > > Cc: Matt Hallacy; TCLUG List
> > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> > >
> > >
> > > VLC can display video from your TV tuner card.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > > He may be looking for that, but his question was about VLC performence in Linux.
> > > >
> > > > Do you know how channels and frequencies are relevant within VLC ?
> > > >
> > > > Chuck
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > > >> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Matt Hallacy
> > > >>
> > > >> You're looking for this:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html
> > > >>
> > > >> Cable uses slightly different frequencies than VHF/UHF, and depending on
> > > >> if it's a Standard, IRC, or HRC system they differ on the cable system.
> > > >>
> > > >> Unless you've moved out of BFE Minnesota, you'll probably have to try
> > > >> all three cable standards and hope for the best. It's most definitely
> > > >> NOT actually VHF broadcast frequencies though.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 18:56 -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
> > > >>> I did say I was capturing from a TV tuner. Glad I explained it well
> > > >>> enough that you knew what I meant
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > >>>> Linux and TV tuners are very different things.  Linux doesn't include the physical capacity to process (receive and
> > > >> demodulate) TV
> > > >>>> channels, some hardware must do that.  Your language isn't describing the right physical things and their interfaces.
> > > >>  A typical VHS
> > > >>>> tape player has a receiver for TV and delivers base video extracted (demodulated) from the  TV carrier signals but
> > > >> does not have a
> > > >>>> direct interface a PC can use, and this has nothing yet compatible with VLC or Linux.  Eventually, an
> > > >> analog-to-digital conversion
> > > >>>> must be done, and then a digital encoding that may be part of VLC may occur.  You may be clear on what you seek, but
> > > >> your language
> > > >>>> isn't stating that.
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.5/2419 - Release Date: 10/07/09 05:18:00
>



From florin at iucha.net  Wed Oct  7 16:18:32 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 16:18:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEGBCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20091007201054.GC20918@iris.iucha.org>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEGBCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20091007211832.GD20918@iris.iucha.org>

On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 03:46:29PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Florin Iucha
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:11 PM
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 02:28:31PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > That is clear in the link I originally quoted, since it's identified as a capable of playing OGG, MP3, etc, and those
> > digital data
> > > files may contain such data.  However, display of data and demodulation of frequencies are not the same sorts of
> > things.  Knowing
> > > channel numbers and frequencies doesn't seem to have any intrinsic interface relevance to VLC even if such data can be displayed
> > > from the digital data formats.
> >
> > VLC can play data coming from the file system, from the network, or
> > acquired from a TV or Radio Tuner.  For the latter, it can use a
> > device tuned by an external program, or allows you to tune it by
> > entering a desired frequency.  The original poster was asking
> > (maybe too briefly) what frequencies correspond to certain channels so
> > he can tune is RF receiver to those channels.
> >
> Much better answer, but does he really have a tuner

I suspect your next question is "And do you call _that_ a tuner?".

> which indicates TV channels in kilohertz?  I seriouly doubt that any of us have
> such an animal.  I have tuner cards, fancy USB connected tuners, and Slingplayer as well as ordinary TVs and VHS tape machines with
> tuners that are all interfaced and none has any mention of actual TV frequencies.

From http://wiki.videolan.org/VLC_command-line_help

   --dvb-frequency=<integer>  Transponder/multiplex frequency
                   In kHz for DVB-S or Hz for DVB-C/T

From http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Play_HowTo/Basic_Use_0.8

   To use a Hauppauge PVR card, select the PVR tab in the "Open"
   dialog box. Use the "Device" text input to set the device of the
   card you want to use. You can set the Norm of the tuner (PAL, SECAM
   or NTSC) by using the "Norm" Drop Down. The Frequency selector
   allows you to set the frequency of the tuner (in kHz), the bitrate
   selector to set the bitrate of the resulting encoded stream (in
   bit/s). The "Advanced Options button allows to set some more
   settings, such as the size of the encoded video (in pixels), its
   framerate (in frame per second), the interval between 2 key frames,
   etc. 

> I'm only pressing for technical clarity in what he needs or asked.  His context was stated as within VLC, and frequency domain
> signals are NOT there.  He seems to need a mental or physical image of the block diagram for getting various data types fed to VLC
> and to determine which block and interfaace is in question.

Again, maybe he hasn't explained very clearly what he wants, but the
subsequent messages in this thread made it plain that he has a TV
tuner card that receives analog input and wants to display some of
that on his screen.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From poptix at poptix.net  Wed Oct  7 18:38:42 2009
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:38:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEGBCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLMEGBCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1254958722.3810.46.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>

Chuck,

 You're going well beyond trolling here. Let me break it down for you
into something so simple you can't possibly feign ignorance.

There is a magical piece of coax with multiple signals on it, they could
be NTSC, PAL, HDTV, FM, AM, etc. utilizing one of many "channel plans".

The TV tuner card is connected to the coax and is capable of providing a
digital representation of various analog signals, most importantly in
this case, NTSC. 

There are drivers in Linux for these TV tuner cards, they use a
standardized API called Video4Linux.

VLC has support for Video4Linux.

To tune into a *channel*, you must tell the TV tuner card (and thus,
VLC) what *frequency* to tune. This value is expressed in kilohertz
because that is the resolution a lot of 'tuner cards', which Video4Linux
supports, are capable of. 

Now for your various comments:

"Capturing from a "TV tuner" would be an analog video baseband signal.
Capturing from a tuner card in a PC would be digitized after
A/D conversion.  Neither of those signal types match your descriptions.
Neither has channels in the signal, or mere kilohertz
bandwidth."

The TV tuner card provides a digital representation of the analog signal
(or in the case of an HD capable tuner card, the raw signal). To be just
as pedantic as you are, those signals are fully capable of supporting
channels inside the stream (most HD channels do). Nobody said it was
less than 999 KHz of bandwidth either, only that the channel center
frequency must be expressed in KHz for precision. 

"Much better answer, but does he really have a tuner which indicates TV
channels in kilohertz?  I seriouly doubt that any of us have
such an animal.  I have tuner cards, fancy USB connected tuners, and
Slingplayer as well as ordinary TVs and VHS tape machines with
tuners that are all interfaced and none has any mention of actual TV
frequencies."

Every TV tuner card I've ever owned (and I have owned at least 30) has
required that the software tune it into a frequency. You cannot simply
say 'channel 23, GO!' and have the hardware understand *which* channel
23 you mean. "Channel 23" in the USA alone can be at least four
different frequencies (217,250, 216,010, 217,262 and 525,250 KHz)
depending on the source of the signal. You may have had *software* that
made an educated guess about which channel plan you're using based on
questions it asked you, but in the end the software was telling the
hardware to tune into a specific frequency.

I have no idea what your hang up is with KHz vs. MHz, it's the same
frequency, just with less decimal places. 


"No: frequency selection in that is ONLY by choosing digital data, but
not handling actual analog signals in any direct way.  It's
only a digital data format issue, and the data would be in some psuedo-code.  Frequency per se is not an issue, but digital encoding
format for that data type or the data format to read brand and model of tuner would be relevant."

I hope you realize how incredibly ignorant this statement was by now.



From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 19:18:58 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 19:18:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <1254958722.3810.46.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGELBPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Your info is not quite exact or authoritative.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hallacy [mailto:poptix at poptix.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 6:39 PM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> Chuck,
>
>  You're going well beyond trolling here. Let me break it down for you
> into something so simple you can't possibly feign ignorance.
>
> There is a magical piece of coax with multiple signals on it, they could
> be NTSC, PAL, HDTV, FM, AM, etc. utilizing one of many "channel plans".
>
> The TV tuner card is connected to the coax and is capable of providing a
> digital representation of various analog signals, most importantly in
> this case, NTSC.

He never said any of that was within his question.  THAT was part of my inquiry.


> There are drivers in Linux for these TV tuner cards, they use a
> standardized API called Video4Linux.
>
> VLC has support for Video4Linux.
>
> To tune into a *channel*, you must tell the TV tuner card (and thus,
> VLC) what *frequency* to tune. This value is expressed in kilohertz
> because that is the resolution a lot of 'tuner cards', which Video4Linux
> supports, are capable of.

Mine are already channelized and frequency is not explicit.  Further, tuners and analog frequency are not within VLC as was
originally the ONLY context.



> Now for your various comments:
>
> "Capturing from a "TV tuner" would be an analog video baseband signal.
> Capturing from a tuner card in a PC would be digitized after
> A/D conversion.  Neither of those signal types match your descriptions.
> Neither has channels in the signal, or mere kilohertz
> bandwidth."
>
> The TV tuner card provides a digital representation of the analog signal
> (or in the case of an HD capable tuner card, the raw signal). To be just
> as pedantic as you are, those signals are fully capable of supporting
> channels inside the stream (most HD channels do). Nobody said it was
> less than 999 KHz of bandwidth either, only that the channel center
> frequency must be expressed in KHz for precision.

The analog signals have that capability, but the digital VLC interface of this question does not have anything but digital data.

>
> "Much better answer, but does he really have a tuner which indicates TV
> channels in kilohertz?  I seriouly doubt that any of us have
> such an animal.  I have tuner cards, fancy USB connected tuners, and
> Slingplayer as well as ordinary TVs and VHS tape machines with
> tuners that are all interfaced and none has any mention of actual TV
> frequencies."
>
> Every TV tuner card I've ever owned (and I have owned at least 30) has
> required that the software tune it into a frequency. You cannot simply
> say 'channel 23, GO!' and have the hardware understand *which* channel
> 23 you mean. "Channel 23" in the USA alone can be at least four
> different frequencies (217,250, 216,010, 217,262 and 525,250 KHz)
> depending on the source of the signal. You may have had *software* that
> made an educated guess about which channel plan you're using based on
> questions it asked you, but in the end the software was telling the
> hardware to tune into a specific frequency.

Mine select TV channel numbers and their drivers do the rest.  That is 100% digital and never touches analog frequencies except by
the way chips in the tuners translate digital commands to tuner parameters within those chips.

>
> I have no idea what your hang up is with KHz vs. MHz, it's the same
> frequency, just with less decimal places.

Didin't ask your opinion of that.  He mentioned very low kilohertz for some reason when the much higher megahertz range seemed more
relevant.  Yu could try reading the context and threads of this before pontificating.



> "No: frequency selection in that is ONLY by choosing digital data, but
> not handling actual analog signals in any direct way.  It's
> only a digital data format issue, and the data would be in some psuedo-code.  Frequency per se is not an issue, but
> digital encoding
> format for that data type or the data format to read brand and model of tuner would be relevant."
>
> I hope you realize how incredibly ignorant this statement was by now.

Not ignorant, it's 100% accurate for what VLC itself does, and THAT was the question.


Apparently you are out to lunch on what this thread actually stated.  Much of your peripheral data is valid, just outside this
specific scope of discussion.


Chuck



From tclug at beitsahour.net  Wed Oct  7 19:29:02 2009
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 19:29:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 3ware Escalade question
In-Reply-To: <cac45c240910071232v10ce7b6ag2aa03b6936624348@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ACBF8DB.9010003@lctn.org>
	<406189300910061943x3dec2e0dvcaaa541b4fe773c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<cac45c240910071232v10ce7b6ag2aa03b6936624348@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fa17c9630910071729p72e0b165na0464b171267c2b3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 14:32, Andrew S. Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:
> The 3ware Escalade is a hardware RAID card. You create the array using
> the 3ware's firmware. The 3ware card then presents the array to Linux
> (or any OS) as a single SCSI, PATA, or SATA drive. You won't see the
> individual drives in the OS without software provided by the RAID
> card's vendor.

in this case the 3w-xxxx module which drives the 3ware escalade 6000,
7000 and 8000 cards is already in the linux kernel since the 2.4 days
and no additional software is needed. it presents a single SCSI device
for each RAID set defined in the 3ware bios

the tw_cli and 3dmd software packages provided by AMC/3ware are
optional though highly recommended to monitor the array. and can be
used to make modifications to the array at runtime but not while the
array is active(mounted) and not without destroying the data on disk.
(you cannot add drives to the array or reconfigure the array)


From poptix at poptix.net  Wed Oct  7 20:01:06 2009
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:01:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGELBPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCGELBPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1254963666.3810.76.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>

On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 19:18 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:

> > There is a magical piece of coax with multiple signals on it, they could
> > be NTSC, PAL, HDTV, FM, AM, etc. utilizing one of many "channel plans".
> >
> > The TV tuner card is connected to the coax and is capable of providing a
> > digital representation of various analog signals, most importantly in
> > this case, NTSC.
> 
> He never said any of that was within his question.  THAT was part of my inquiry.

Because it wasn't necessary, people with experience using VLC with
Video4Linux knew exactly what he meant. 

> > To tune into a *channel*, you must tell the TV tuner card (and thus,
> > VLC) what *frequency* to tune. This value is expressed in kilohertz
> > because that is the resolution a lot of 'tuner cards', which Video4Linux
> > supports, are capable of.
> 
> Mine are already channelized and frequency is not explicit. 

Your *software*, the application actually talking to the drivers, is
specifying a frequency for the drivers. It's using a channel map to
determine which frequency 'channel 4' is on. VLC is a little less user
friendly (or more tech friendly, depending on how you view it) and
doesn't mess around with channel maps. 

VLC requires that you specify a frequency for any tuner input, it does
not accept channel names/numbers. You must select the tuner,
broadcasting standard (PAL/NTSC/SECAM/etc) and the analog frequency that
you wish to view.

> Further, tuners and analog frequency are not within VLC as was
> originally the ONLY context.

They are absolutely *configured* within VLC. If you meant "VLC is not
decoding the raw analog data" I think that is extremely obvious to
anyone on this list.

> The analog signals have that capability, but the digital VLC interface of this question does not have anything but digital data.

And since the output of the TV tuner card is simply a digitized signal,
it also has those sub channels. Again, nobody said they built an analog
computer and ported VLC to it. 

> Mine select TV channel numbers and their drivers do the rest.  That is 100% digital and never touches analog frequencies except by
> the way chips in the tuners translate digital commands to tuner parameters within those chips.

No. The drivers nor the hardware have any idea what 'channel 4' is. If
you use DScaler (a free windows TV tuner card application) you'll notice
that it too is using specific frequencies (not channel names) with the
same drivers. Just because you're not having to type in the frequency
doesn't mean the software isn't doing it for you. 


> Didin't ask your opinion of that.  He mentioned very low kilohertz for some reason when the much higher megahertz range seemed more
> relevant.  Yu could try reading the context and threads of this before pontificating.

I read the entire thread multiple times, he said "channel 13 is 211.25
mHz, or 211250 kHz" that is absolutely correct for "Standard" cable and
Broadcast NTSC. It's not "very low" and it's the exact same frequency no
matter if he specified it in terahertz or hertz.

You do realize that 211.25MHz is the same as 211,250 KHz, which is the
same as 211,250,000 Hz right?


> > "No: frequency selection in that is ONLY by choosing digital data, but
> > not handling actual analog signals in any direct way.  It's
> > only a digital data format issue, and the data would be in some psuedo-code.  Frequency per se is not an issue, but
> > digital encoding
> > format for that data type or the data format to read brand and model of tuner would be relevant."
> >
> > I hope you realize how incredibly ignorant this statement was by now.
> 
> Not ignorant, it's 100% accurate for what VLC itself does, and THAT was the question.

It is not a "digital data format issue" and there is no "pseudo-code".
The frequency *is* the issue as he was trying to tune into a specific
channel and needed to know which frequency to configure VLC to tune.

I suspect I've done a great deal more work with TV tuner cards, drivers,
and the software that users actually see than you have. If you're going
to try to be pedantic about something on a public mailing list, try
choosing something you can speak intelligently about.  




From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 20:55:06 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:55:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <1254963666.3810.76.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCKELDPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hallacy [mailto:poptix at poptix.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:01 PM
> They are absolutely *configured* within VLC. If you meant "VLC is not
> decoding the raw analog data" I think that is extremely obvious to
> anyone on this list.
>

That has already been disproved several times in this thread.  Certainly some know, but several do not.


> No. The drivers nor the hardware have any idea what 'channel 4' is. If
> you use DScaler (a free windows TV tuner card application) you'll notice
> that it too is using specific frequencies (not channel names) with the
> same drivers. Just because you're not having to type in the frequency
> doesn't mean the software isn't doing it for you.

Didn't say the data had no existence, only that my drivers emulate TV remotes which have channel buttons (or equiv) at user
interface levels.  The lower level software for mine is closed proprietary stuff one cannot see into.  Which TV PCI and USB TV
tuners have fully open source that shows this?

>
>
> > Didin't ask your opinion of that.  He mentioned very low kilohertz for some reason when the much higher megahertz range
> seemed more
> > relevant.  Yu could try reading the context and threads of this before pontificating.
>
> I read the entire thread multiple times, he said "channel 13 is 211.25
> mHz, or 211250 kHz" that is absolutely correct for "Standard" cable and
> Broadcast NTSC. It's not "very low" and it's the exact same frequency no
> matter if he specified it in terahertz or hertz.

He said that after you posted the table, but was speaking of lower frequencies at first when that issue entered the thread.  You are
out of sequence in your capture and compaint.


>
> You do realize that 211.25MHz is the same as 211,250 KHz, which is the
> same as 211,250,000 Hz right?

They are not: the extra decimals should express actual precision of measurement, so fewer digits may indicate different actual
numbers when the same precision of measurement is applied.  You did know that, didn't you?   :-)

> > Not ignorant, it's 100% accurate for what VLC itself does, and THAT was the question.
>
> It is not a "digital data format issue" and there is no "pseudo-code".
> The frequency *is* the issue as he was trying to tune into a specific
> channel and needed to know which frequency to configure VLC to tune.

That was all HE asked about.  Any more is your inference and assumption.

> I suspect I've done a great deal more work with TV tuner cards, drivers,
> and the software that users actually see than you have. If you're going
> to try to be pedantic about something on a public mailing list, try
> choosing something you can speak intelligently about.

Speak for yourself.  Heed your own advice and learn to read better.  You did not identify and confirm the correct block diagram and
interface for THIS question before pontificating about quasi-relevant low-level bits.  Identify the open source tuner driver
interfaces that show this and require frequency domain setup and do not allow or use normal TV set channelizations.  Show your info
is mabe as much as half-vast   :-)


Chuck






From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 20:57:11 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:57:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  OT channel frequencies
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLEEGDCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Florin Iucha
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 4:19 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> 
> 
> Again, maybe he hasn't explained very clearly what he wants, but the
> subsequent messages in this thread made it plain that he has a TV
> tuner card that receives analog input and wants to display some of
> that on his screen.


Your responses seem quite coherent and may have actually helped him.
He asked about the VLC interface domain which is ONLY digital, and not actual analog stuff.  
He had not clarified that he had a TV tuner or drivers for that, others merely guessed that part and he hasn't confirmed.
Did he ever get info for his question?  That's not clear at all.  I've tried to stick to his inquiry alone.


Chuck


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct  7 21:49:18 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:49:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW:  OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLEEGDCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLEEGDCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4ACD532E.9030704@lctn.org>

I kept my question short because I knew it was OT, and was hoping for a 
quick response from someone who knew something about VLC. Asking what 
the equivalent frequency for each channel was automatically told those 
familiar with VLC video capture that I was working with a TV tuner. I 
found the frequency info I was looking for later in the day, which is 
the same information that Matt provided today. I believe asking the 
original question indicated I am not an authority on the subject, so it 
should not be surprising I did not use precise, scientific terms.

Did you know a vacuum cleaner does not really vacuum?


>
> Your responses seem quite coherent and may have actually helped him.
> He asked about the VLC interface domain which is ONLY digital, and not actual analog stuff.  
> He had not clarified that he had a TV tuner or drivers for that, others merely guessed that part and he hasn't confirmed.
> Did he ever get info for his question?  That's not clear at all.  I've tried to stick to his inquiry alone.
>
>
>   


From poptix at poptix.net  Wed Oct  7 22:20:11 2009
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:20:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCKELDPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCKELDPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1254972011.3810.116.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>

On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 20:55 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> Didn't say the data had no existence, only that my drivers emulate TV remotes which have channel buttons (or equiv) at user
> interface levels.  The lower level software for mine is closed proprietary stuff one cannot see into.  Which TV PCI and USB TV
> tuners have fully open source that shows this?

The source isn't necessary, simply look at the publicly available APIs
or even the .ini files that come with the software. It's how things were
standardized a very long time ago (do you not remember TVs with tuner
dials where you could change any channel number to a different actual
channel?)


> > > Didin't ask your opinion of that.  He mentioned very low kilohertz for some reason when the much higher megahertz range
> > seemed more
> > > relevant.  Yu could try reading the context and threads of this before pontificating.
> >
> > I read the entire thread multiple times, he said "channel 13 is 211.25
> > mHz, or 211250 kHz" that is absolutely correct for "Standard" cable and
> > Broadcast NTSC. It's not "very low" and it's the exact same frequency no
> > matter if he specified it in terahertz or hertz.
> 
> He said that after you posted the table, but was speaking of lower frequencies at first when that issue entered the thread.  You are
> out of sequence in your capture and compaint.

Actually, I posted the table today at 10:42am. He posted that yesterday
at 2:30pm. Perhaps you're the one with the reading comprehension
problems? Consider your own advice and re-read the thread. 

> > You do realize that 211.25MHz is the same as 211,250 KHz, which is the
> > same as 211,250,000 Hz right?
> 
> They are not: the extra decimals should express actual precision of measurement, so fewer digits may indicate different actual
> numbers when the same precision of measurement is applied.  You did know that, didn't you?   :-)

You're seriously going to debate that 211.25 MHz is not the same
frequency as 211,250,000 Hz? He used the decimals which meant they were
significant, I quoted precisely what he said, he was very clear. 



> > > Not ignorant, it's 100% accurate for what VLC itself does, and THAT was the question.
> >
> > It is not a "digital data format issue" and there is no "pseudo-code".
> > The frequency *is* the issue as he was trying to tune into a specific
> > channel and needed to know which frequency to configure VLC to tune.
> 
> That was all HE asked about.  Any more is your inference and assumption.

Hello reading comprehension, his exact statement: 

"I am working with VLC on Linux Mint, and need help determining what
frequencies (KHz) are assigned to channels 4,8, and 13. Is there a good
doc on this?"

further clarified:

"... Our cable provider uses VHF channels 4, 8, and 13 to feed video to
our TVs. If my research is correct channel 13 is 211.25 mHz, or 211250
kHz. I haven't gotten it to work yet, which is why I wanted to be sure
the frequency I am using is right.  I can view channel 13 on TVTime, so
I know the tuner is working correctly."

Yes, I believe it is *excruciatingly* clear that he was asking for a
list of channel numbers <-> frequency mappings. 

> Speak for yourself.  Heed your own advice and learn to read better.  

See above, you're confused about what he even asked.

> You did not identify and confirm the correct block diagram

Put away the diagrams and start actually reading peoples email.

> interface for THIS question before pontificating about quasi-relevant low-level bits.  Identify the open source tuner driver
> interfaces that show this and require frequency domain setup and do not allow or use normal TV set channelizations.  Show your info
> is mabe as much as half-vast   :-)

Here is the ioctl to set a frequency:

http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#vidioc-g-frequency

Here is the structure you pass to it:

http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#v4l2-frequency

"
1.6.3. Radio Frequency

To get and set the tuner or modulator radio frequency applications use
the VIDIOC_G_FREQUENCY and VIDIOC_S_FREQUENCY ioctl which both take a
pointer to a struct v4l2_frequency. These ioctls are used for TV and
radio devices alike. Drivers must support both ioctls when the tuner or
modulator ioctls are supported, or when the device is a radio device.
"

Video standards, and how to set them if the tuner card supports more
than one, and isn't currently on the one you need:

http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#standard

I challenge you to actually educate yourself instead of trolling a
mailing list about something you obviously have no knowledge of.

Don't bother replying unless you've actually re-read the thread, and
read through the relevant parts of the various APIs (Video for Windows,
DirectX, Video4Linux). 



From florin at iucha.net  Wed Oct  7 23:03:24 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 23:03:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCKELDPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <1254963666.3810.76.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCKELDPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20091008040324.GE20918@iris.iucha.org>

On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 08:55:06PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > You do realize that 211.25MHz is the same as 211,250 KHz, which is the
> > same as 211,250,000 Hz right?
>
> They are not: the extra decimals should express actual precision
> of measurement, so fewer digits may indicate different actual
> numbers when the same precision of measurement is applied.  You did
> know that, didn't you?   :-)

If only this paragraph was shorter, it would have made it to the
great collection of Internet quotes.

Cheers,000.000
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  7 23:15:25 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 23:15:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <1254972011.3810.116.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEGECPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hallacy [mailto:poptix at poptix.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:20 PM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: TCLUG List
> Subject: RE: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 20:55 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > Didn't say the data had no existence, only that my drivers emulate TV remotes which have channel buttons (or equiv) at user
> > interface levels.  The lower level software for mine is closed proprietary stuff one cannot see into.  Which TV PCI and USB TV
> > tuners have fully open source that shows this?
>
> The source isn't necessary, simply look at the publicly available APIs
> or even the .ini files that come with the software.


Source is necessary to explicitly show the data transfers are as you claim.

Citations of products which clearly designate compliance with clearly designated API specs is also necessary to show that your
assumptions and some of your hacking discoveries have actual engineering reality.


>
> Here is the ioctl to set a frequency:
>
> http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#vidioc-g-frequency
>
> Here is the structure you pass to it:
>
> http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#v4l2-frequency
>
> "
> 1.6.3. Radio Frequency
>
> To get and set the tuner or modulator radio frequency applications use
> the VIDIOC_G_FREQUENCY and VIDIOC_S_FREQUENCY ioctl which both take a
> pointer to a struct v4l2_frequency. These ioctls are used for TV and
> radio devices alike. Drivers must support both ioctls when the tuner or
> modulator ioctls are supported, or when the device is a radio device.
> "
>
> Video standards, and how to set them if the tuner card supports more
> than one, and isn't currently on the one you need:
>
> http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#standard

Good data, but far from the essentials of the original topic.

> I challenge you to actually educate yourself instead of trolling a
> mailing list about something you obviously have no knowledge of.

I'm already well-enough educated to be a graduate school EE advisor, a technical manager, and I have hardware design patents.  I
asked well-qualified basic stuff about block diagram info which was erroneous and/or missing.  You dove into a swamp of minutia
without ever recognizing the validity of the basic clarification needed.  Your minutia is good.  I don't feel a need to learn all
the minutia unless or until I have a need for it, then I'll just hire someone to follow an explicit statement of work unless it
becomes a hobby interest... which is unlikely.  There is no requirement that our areas of expertise be the same or cover the same
levels since we're not even in the same industries.  Does that need further explanation?


Chuck







From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct  7 23:28:43 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 23:28:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEGECPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEGECPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910072323080.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I'll just say (A) I didn't think it was OT because it was about FOSS 
software that runs on GNU/Linux and (B) I thought the discussion was 
pretty informative.  I did look at how it started and what caused it to 
become something of a battle.  I think the problem started because the 
original question wasn't very complete -- somewhat less complete than the 
OP thought it was, so he didn't understand the questions that were coming 
back at him.  It was just a bit confused and so people could easily 
mistake certain kinds of questions more as accusations than questions and 
one thing led to another.

I think VLC is pretty amazing.  I'm using it a lot these days, e.g., to 
play DVD ISOs from my HDD.

Mike


From poptix at poptix.net  Wed Oct  7 23:32:04 2009
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:32:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEGECPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLGEGECPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1254976324.3810.119.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>

Chuck,

 You're an idiot. Welcome to my killfile. 

On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 23:15 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Hallacy [mailto:poptix at poptix.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:20 PM
> > To: Chuck Cole
> > Cc: TCLUG List
> > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 20:55 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > Didn't say the data had no existence, only that my drivers emulate TV remotes which have channel buttons (or equiv) at user
> > > interface levels.  The lower level software for mine is closed proprietary stuff one cannot see into.  Which TV PCI and USB TV
> > > tuners have fully open source that shows this?
> >
> > The source isn't necessary, simply look at the publicly available APIs
> > or even the .ini files that come with the software.
> 
> 
> Source is necessary to explicitly show the data transfers are as you claim.
> 
> Citations of products which clearly designate compliance with clearly designated API specs is also necessary to show that your
> assumptions and some of your hacking discoveries have actual engineering reality.
> 
> 
> >
> > Here is the ioctl to set a frequency:
> >
> > http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#vidioc-g-frequency
> >
> > Here is the structure you pass to it:
> >
> > http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#v4l2-frequency
> >
> > "
> > 1.6.3. Radio Frequency
> >
> > To get and set the tuner or modulator radio frequency applications use
> > the VIDIOC_G_FREQUENCY and VIDIOC_S_FREQUENCY ioctl which both take a
> > pointer to a struct v4l2_frequency. These ioctls are used for TV and
> > radio devices alike. Drivers must support both ioctls when the tuner or
> > modulator ioctls are supported, or when the device is a radio device.
> > "
> >
> > Video standards, and how to set them if the tuner card supports more
> > than one, and isn't currently on the one you need:
> >
> > http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#standard
> 
> Good data, but far from the essentials of the original topic.
> 
> > I challenge you to actually educate yourself instead of trolling a
> > mailing list about something you obviously have no knowledge of.
> 
> I'm already well-enough educated to be a graduate school EE advisor, a technical manager, and I have hardware design patents.  I
> asked well-qualified basic stuff about block diagram info which was erroneous and/or missing.  You dove into a swamp of minutia
> without ever recognizing the validity of the basic clarification needed.  Your minutia is good.  I don't feel a need to learn all
> the minutia unless or until I have a need for it, then I'll just hire someone to follow an explicit statement of work unless it
> becomes a hobby interest... which is unlikely.  There is no requirement that our areas of expertise be the same or cover the same
> levels since we're not even in the same industries.  Does that need further explanation?
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> 



From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Oct  8 00:46:20 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 00:46:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <1254976324.3810.119.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCOELHPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Glad to know that Matt knows he lives under low ceilings and prefers to stay in his box.  Sorry he's not more perspicacious.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Hallacy [mailto:poptix at poptix.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:32 PM
> To: Chuck Cole
> Cc: TCLUG List
> Subject: RE: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
>
>
> Chuck,
>
>  You're an idiot. Welcome to my killfile.
>
> On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 23:15 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Matt Hallacy [mailto:poptix at poptix.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:20 PM
> > > To: Chuck Cole
> > > Cc: TCLUG List
> > > Subject: RE: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2009-10-07 at 20:55 -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > > Didn't say the data had no existence, only that my drivers emulate TV remotes which have channel buttons (or equiv) at user
> > > > interface levels.  The lower level software for mine is closed proprietary stuff one cannot see into.  Which TV PCI
> and USB TV
> > > > tuners have fully open source that shows this?
> > >
> > > The source isn't necessary, simply look at the publicly available APIs
> > > or even the .ini files that come with the software.
> >
> >
> > Source is necessary to explicitly show the data transfers are as you claim.
> >
> > Citations of products which clearly designate compliance with clearly designated API specs is also necessary to show that your
> > assumptions and some of your hacking discoveries have actual engineering reality.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Here is the ioctl to set a frequency:
> > >
> > > http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#vidioc-g-frequency
> > >
> > > Here is the structure you pass to it:
> > >
> > > http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#v4l2-frequency
> > >
> > > "
> > > 1.6.3. Radio Frequency
> > >
> > > To get and set the tuner or modulator radio frequency applications use
> > > the VIDIOC_G_FREQUENCY and VIDIOC_S_FREQUENCY ioctl which both take a
> > > pointer to a struct v4l2_frequency. These ioctls are used for TV and
> > > radio devices alike. Drivers must support both ioctls when the tuner or
> > > modulator ioctls are supported, or when the device is a radio device.
> > > "
> > >
> > > Video standards, and how to set them if the tuner card supports more
> > > than one, and isn't currently on the one you need:
> > >
> > > http://www.linuxtv.org/downloads/video4linux/API/V4L2_API/spec-single/v4l2.html#standard
> >
> > Good data, but far from the essentials of the original topic.
> >
> > > I challenge you to actually educate yourself instead of trolling a
> > > mailing list about something you obviously have no knowledge of.
> >
> > I'm already well-enough educated to be a graduate school EE advisor, a technical manager, and I have hardware design patents.  I
> > asked well-qualified basic stuff about block diagram info which was erroneous and/or missing.  You dove into a swamp of minutia
> > without ever recognizing the validity of the basic clarification needed.  Your minutia is good.  I don't feel a need to
> learn all
> > the minutia unless or until I have a need for it, then I'll just hire someone to follow an explicit statement of work unless it
> > becomes a hobby interest... which is unlikely.  There is no requirement that our areas of expertise be the same or
> cover the same
> > levels since we're not even in the same industries.  Does that need further explanation?
> >
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.5/2419 - Release Date: 10/07/09 20:49:00
>



From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu  Thu Oct  8 11:09:30 2009
From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:09:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT channel frequencies
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCKELDPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCKELDPGAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <38330.152.65.129.201.1255018170.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu>

On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 08:55:06PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
>  From: Matt Hallacy [mailto:poptix at poptix.net]
> >
> > You do realize that 211.25MHz is the same as 211,250 KHz, which is the
> > same as 211,250,000 Hz right?
>
> They are not: the extra decimals should express actual
> precision of measurement, so fewer digits may indicate
> different actual numbers when the same precision of measurement
> is applied.  You did know that, didn't you?   :-)

While I did enjoy popcorn while reading this thread, I couldn't
stop myself from jumping in.

Chuck, if you are going to pedant, you have be careful.

You only get extra-precision with trailing zeros if there is a
decimal point.

So, as Matt said, 211.25 MHz, 211,250 KHz, and 211,250,000 Hz
all had 5 significant digits.

211250. KHz, 211.250 MHz, and 2.11250 x 10^8 Hz would all have
6 significant digits.

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List
(TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/
Never laugh at live dragons  |




From clickreply at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 13:50:16 2009
From: clickreply at gmail.com (Click Reply)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 13:50:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] e-shopping where the lowest price leads (to trouble)?
Message-ID: <42bf1dd30910081150y2b5e400apafa04c8d1eb83015@mail.gmail.com>

I'm curious what some of you think about this "topelectronicsworld" website
I found last night? Procedural or specific advice. I'm too wary to even call
them! [?] They post *extraordinary* prices on netbooks and Canon cameras.


Frankly, it alerts me after the dictum *If it seems too good to be true...
it probably isn't.* Google didn't turn ANYTHING up on this site, which I
find extraordinary. Maybe it comes from the future after a coming currency
collapse?? Perhaps TCLUG can be my friend on this where GOOGLE failed?



http://topelectronicsworld.com/index.php?cPath=48


Eventually Firefox and IE both issued the following warning after I was on
their site for a while, where popup feedback is given, and I have no clue
how serious this is:


[image: Warning] Warning: I am able to write to the configuration file:
//includes/configure.php. This is a potential security risk - please set the
right user permissions on this file.


The site also provided the following contact information, which seems oddly
detailed for a commercial site (the fax number is unlisted, the 800 number
wasn't available by reverse search):


Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts,

BruceH

*
*

*Information about TopElectronicsWorld.com:*
  Company Name TopElectronicsWorld Company Address 227 N Academy Blvd Ste
201,Colorado Springs, CO 80910-2768 United States Phone 800-793-8543 Fax
719-599-9391 Administrator Nick Morgan Contact Administrator
adminstrator at TopElectronicsWorld.com Sales Department
sales at TopElectronicsWorld.com Billing Department
billing at TopElectronicsWorld.com

**Other information you might find usefull:

- for returns contact us via phone or at : returns at TopElectronicsWorld.com;

- we do not take orders over the phone, all orders must be made through our
website following the indicated procedure;

- we currently accept only credit card payment (Visa,Mastercard);
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 14:08:56 2009
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:08:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] e-shopping where the lowest price leads (to
	trouble)?
In-Reply-To: <42bf1dd30910081150y2b5e400apafa04c8d1eb83015@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42bf1dd30910081150y2b5e400apafa04c8d1eb83015@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0910081208g7bb81cdaid104b79096a9e9f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Click Reply <clickreply at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm curious what some of you think about this "topelectronicsworld" website
> I found last night? Procedural or specific advice. I'm too wary to even call
> them! [?] They post *extraordinary* prices on netbooks and Canon cameras.
>

Everything about the site reeks of scam.  Copyright 2007?  But Google
doesn't index you?  Ummm... sure.

3 possiblities:
1.  Stolen products
2.  No product, but thanks for your CC info!
3.  A honeypot for identity thieves (saw this on Dateline once)

If you want to have fun, get one of those single use credit cards and buy
something.  See what happens.  Maybe you can help the FTC smack these guys.
Maybe you'll be out $100.  Maybe you'll end up in jail for receiving stolen
property.  Maybe they'll come to your house and kill you.

On second thought, I'd take the safe route and buy from a reputable vendor.

Brian
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Oct  8 14:22:39 2009
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:22:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200910081922.n98JMd607125@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want for Free

Subject: Working monitor

Do you have an old monitor that you'd like to be rid of?  Is it working?  

I have an old celeron machine that is going to a new home.  It's been a headless server and the new user will need some sort of monitor.  I'll take anything that is a color VGA monitor, 14" or larger, in working condition.  

Will pick it up from you anywhere in the metro, but MSP/StP/southern suburbs preferred.

Thanks!


Seller Email address: tlunde at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 14:24:34 2009
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:24:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] e-shopping where the lowest price leads (to
	trouble)?
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0910081208g7bb81cdaid104b79096a9e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42bf1dd30910081150y2b5e400apafa04c8d1eb83015@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c6699da0910081208g7bb81cdaid104b79096a9e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A72EE2F6-4BFD-49D4-A634-A56F336F329F@gmail.com>

Heck, even the original poster reeks of an ad for a scam site.

clickreply at gmail.com -- are you kidding?

Thomas


On Oct 8, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Brian Wall wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Click Reply <clickreply at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> I'm curious what some of you think about this "topelectronicsworld"  
> website I found last night? Procedural or specific advice. I'm too  
> wary to even call them!  They post extraordinary prices on netbooks  
> and Canon cameras.
>
>
> Everything about the site reeks of scam.  Copyright 2007?  But  
> Google doesn't index you?  Ummm... sure.
>
> 3 possiblities:
> 1.  Stolen products
> 2.  No product, but thanks for your CC info!
> 3.  A honeypot for identity thieves (saw this on Dateline once)
>
> If you want to have fun, get one of those single use credit cards  
> and buy something.  See what happens.  Maybe you can help the FTC  
> smack these guys.  Maybe you'll be out $100.  Maybe you'll end up in  
> jail for receiving stolen property.  Maybe they'll come to your  
> house and kill you.
>
> On second thought, I'd take the safe route and buy from a reputable  
> vendor.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 15:45:33 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:45:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] e-shopping where the lowest price leads (to
 trouble)?
In-Reply-To: <A72EE2F6-4BFD-49D4-A634-A56F336F329F@gmail.com>
References: <42bf1dd30910081150y2b5e400apafa04c8d1eb83015@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c6699da0910081208g7bb81cdaid104b79096a9e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<A72EE2F6-4BFD-49D4-A634-A56F336F329F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910081543000.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> Heck, even the original poster reeks of an ad for a scam site.
>
> clickreply at gmail.com -- are you kidding?


Weird.

I used to sometimes order things from whoever had the best price.  What I 
found was that many of these obscure places would promise to ship by a 
certain date, then they wouldn't come through, then they'd say that they 
don't have any in stock, then they'd admit that they never will have the 
item in stock.  On at least one occasion they shipped the wrong product 
and I had to return it.  None of them took my money, but they wasted a lot 
of my time.  I prefer newegg.com.

Mike


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Thu Oct  8 23:44:32 2009
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 12:44:32 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Ethernet Expresscards
Message-ID: <20091009124432.3fa3694d.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

My Dell Inspiron B120 apparently has a dead NIC card.  Since it's part of the motherboard, I won't be able to replace it.

So now I'm in the market for an Ethernet Expresscard for the Expresscard port in my laptop.  Where can I find Ethernet Expresscards?  These seem to be hard to find - everything is USB or PCMIA.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Oct  9 23:22:18 2009
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 23:22:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] e-shopping where the lowest price leads (to
	trouble)?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910081543000.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <42bf1dd30910081150y2b5e400apafa04c8d1eb83015@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c6699da0910081208g7bb81cdaid104b79096a9e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<A72EE2F6-4BFD-49D4-A634-A56F336F329F@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910081543000.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0910092122o3f987183n45f53064b02a0ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> I used to sometimes order things from whoever had the best price. ?What I
> found was that many of these obscure places would promise to ship by a
> certain date, then they wouldn't come through, then they'd say that they
> don't have any in stock, then they'd admit that they never will have the
> item in stock. ?On at least one occasion they shipped the wrong product
> and I had to return it. ?None of them took my money, but they wasted a lot
> of my time. ?I prefer newegg.com.

I did this once.  Bought a pair of motherboards from an online outfit
I found on pricewatch.  After a month of no motherboards, no response.
 Three months later, the charge showed up on my CC.  Took me five
minutes to find the official complaint from the BBB, and arguing the
charge with VISA was no hassle.  Provide decent evidence and they
reverse the charges without too much effort.

Lesson learned, if I haven't heard of them, I don't buy from them.

Brian


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sat Oct 10 07:21:01 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:21:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] e-shopping where the lowest price leads (to
	trouble)?
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0910092122o3f987183n45f53064b02a0ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42bf1dd30910081150y2b5e400apafa04c8d1eb83015@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c6699da0910081208g7bb81cdaid104b79096a9e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<A72EE2F6-4BFD-49D4-A634-A56F336F329F@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910081543000.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<2c6699da0910092122o3f987183n45f53064b02a0ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DE2979C8-1D00-495E-86F8-003C76252CA8@cwis.biz>

Yes and I want to say as a business owner that chargebacks are  
IMPOSSIBLE to win.

I have had a dozen customers -- large ticket orders ($1000 or more)  
claim they never rec'd and despite having all the evidence I have not  
won the fight.  Now I'm out $1000 in payments to my photographer who  
is pissed because his royalties have been cut down, $200 in print  
costs and $300 in profits that went into R&D.

I've been hit by the sleaziest of the sleaze, I know, but just  
something to consider. For every bad reseller apple there are 5-10 bad  
customers.
--
Ryan

On Oct 9, 2009, at 11:22 PM, Brian Wall wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>
>> I used to sometimes order things from whoever had the best price.   
>> What I
>> found was that many of these obscure places would promise to ship  
>> by a
>> certain date, then they wouldn't come through, then they'd say that  
>> they
>> don't have any in stock, then they'd admit that they never will  
>> have the
>> item in stock.  On at least one occasion they shipped the wrong  
>> product
>> and I had to return it.  None of them took my money, but they  
>> wasted a lot
>> of my time.  I prefer newegg.com.
>
> I did this once.  Bought a pair of motherboards from an online outfit
> I found on pricewatch.  After a month of no motherboards, no response.
> Three months later, the charge showed up on my CC.  Took me five
> minutes to find the official complaint from the BBB, and arguing the
> charge with VISA was no hassle.  Provide decent evidence and they
> reverse the charges without too much effort.
>
> Lesson learned, if I haven't heard of them, I don't buy from them.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From jpschewe at mtu.net  Sat Oct 10 09:24:47 2009
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:24:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ethernet Expresscards
In-Reply-To: <20091009124432.3fa3694d.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20091009124432.3fa3694d.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <4AD0992F.5030609@mtu.net>

Jason Hsu wrote:
> My Dell Inspiron B120 apparently has a dead NIC card.  Since it's part of the motherboard, I won't be able to replace it.
>
> So now I'm in the market for an Ethernet Expresscard for the Expresscard port in my laptop.  Where can I find Ethernet Expresscards?  These seem to be hard to find - everything is USB or PCMIA.
>   
I've found them at Microcenter before. I don't remember there being a
lot of selection, but they did have some in stock.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From jpschewe at mtu.net  Sun Oct 11 10:05:06 2009
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:05:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Question about eBay and Firefox
Message-ID: <4AD1F422.7080307@mtu.net>

So has anyone else had problems with purchasing things on eBay with
PayPal and Firefox lately? My wife was trying to use Firefox to buy
something on eBay and then it redirected her to PayPal as usual. Then
once she logged into PayPal she was redirected to a page on eBay that
said "This page no longer exists". She called eBay and they said the
site only works with Internet Explorer.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From rsinland at gvtel.com  Sun Oct 11 10:51:51 2009
From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:51:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Question about eBay and Firefox
In-Reply-To: <4AD1F422.7080307@mtu.net>
References: <4AD1F422.7080307@mtu.net>
Message-ID: <4AD1FF17.1060308@gvtel.com>

Jon Schewe wrote:
> So has anyone else had problems with purchasing things on eBay with
> PayPal and Firefox lately? My wife was trying to use Firefox to buy
> something on eBay and then it redirected her to PayPal as usual. Then
> once she logged into PayPal she was redirected to a page on eBay that
> said "This page no longer exists". She called eBay and they said the
> site only works with Internet Explorer.
>
>   
I am a regular user of ebay and paypal and it's been working fine for me 
using firefox 3.5.3.
Rob



From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 11 11:46:03 2009
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:46:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Question about eBay and Firefox]
Message-ID: <1255279563.16748.12.camel@robert>

I both buy and sell on eBay using PayPal and have no problems. I use
Firefox 3.0.14 on Ubuntu 8.04.4 x64 or 3.0.11 on XP Pro and 3.0.14 on XP
Home. 

A business site not supporting Firefox is reprehensible. While about 2/3
of the boxes out there come with IE, about 1/2 of the website visits are
by Firefox users. I sure don't want 1/2 of my potential customers unable
to use my site! 
[See http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp]

Firefox, watch out for Chrome!
-------------- next part --------------
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From: Robert Sinland <rsinland at gvtel.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Question about eBay and Firefox
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:51:51 -0500
Size: 3838
Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20091011/ea8f13fd/attachment.eml 

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 12:44:30 2009
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:44:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Question about eBay and Firefox
In-Reply-To: <4AD1F422.7080307@mtu.net>
References: <4AD1F422.7080307@mtu.net>
Message-ID: <254fef0f0910111044v66e4fce2sa408d8c3e1ae3a25@mail.gmail.com>

I purchased something on eBay with PayPal just last month, using
Firefox 3.0 on Ubuntu 9.04.  Additionally, Firefox is a supported
browser according to http://pages.ebay.com/help/account/browser.html ,
so the support rep you talked to must have been incorrectly informed.
(However, Linux is not listed as a supported platform, not that it
matters for this.)


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Sun Oct 11 21:31:23 2009
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:31:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Question about eBay and Firefox
In-Reply-To: <254fef0f0910111044v66e4fce2sa408d8c3e1ae3a25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD1F422.7080307@mtu.net>
	<254fef0f0910111044v66e4fce2sa408d8c3e1ae3a25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD294FB.7090702@mtu.net>

Thanks for the info everyone. I didn't realize this link existed for
supported browsers.

Tony Yarusso wrote:
> I purchased something on eBay with PayPal just last month, using
> Firefox 3.0 on Ubuntu 9.04.  Additionally, Firefox is a supported
> browser according to http://pages.ebay.com/help/account/browser.html ,
> so the support rep you talked to must have been incorrectly informed.
> (However, Linux is not listed as a supported platform, not that it
> matters for this.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From admin at lctn.org  Mon Oct 12 19:14:04 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:14:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] transferring  mail
Message-ID: <4AD3C64C.4020804@lctn.org>

I have a broken Postfix mail server with a bunch of messages trapped in 
/var/spool/postfix/hold. Is there a way to scp the messages over to 
another Postfix mail server and get them to send to the original 
recipients? Both servers are on the same domain.






From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Oct 13 11:36:17 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:36:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] transferring  mail
In-Reply-To: <4AD3C64C.4020804@lctn.org>
References: <4AD3C64C.4020804@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AAF18BB593E044B5BA1F64D48C0A8D81@usicorp.usinternet.com>

Are you sure there is no hope for your original server? 

In general the best (only really unless you use QMQP) methods of injection
are via smtp and sendmail.
A little loop script could probably burn through your messages rather
quickly depending on how many there are. The Postfix mailing list archives
have examples.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 7:14 PM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: [tclug-list] transferring mail

I have a broken Postfix mail server with a bunch of messages trapped in 
/var/spool/postfix/hold. Is there a way to scp the messages over to 
another Postfix mail server and get them to send to the original 
recipients? Both servers are on the same domain.





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 13 19:04:54 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:04:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] transferring  mail
In-Reply-To: <AAF18BB593E044B5BA1F64D48C0A8D81@usicorp.usinternet.com>
References: <4AD3C64C.4020804@lctn.org>
	<AAF18BB593E044B5BA1F64D48C0A8D81@usicorp.usinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4AD515A6.4090000@lctn.org>

I was able to get postfix working again, and it is delivering mail fine 
now. It wouldn't deliver the old messages that were in the hold queue 
though, so I opened the messages up with a text editor to glean any 
important info before deleting them.

I believe things are working fine now, but can't explain what went wrong 
in the first place.





Justin Krejci wrote:
> Are you sure there is no hope for your original server? 
> 
> In general the best (only really unless you use QMQP) methods of injection
> are via smtp and sendmail.
> A little loop script could probably burn through your messages rather
> quickly depending on how many there are. The Postfix mailing list archives
> have examples.


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 13 20:41:12 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:41:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] transferring  mail
In-Reply-To: <858532392-1255479650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-457915565-@bda689.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <4AD3C64C.4020804@lctn.org><AAF18BB593E044B5BA1F64D48C0A8D81@usicorp.usinternet.com><4AD515A6.4090000@lctn.org>
	<858532392-1255479650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-457915565-@bda689.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4AD52C38.7090205@lctn.org>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20091013/eefb651a/attachment.htm 

From strayf at freeshell.org  Wed Oct 14 00:15:29 2009
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:15:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
Message-ID: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
Date: 		Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
From: 		Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>

Hi everyone!

I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to
start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open
hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and people
can drop off their used equipment anytime between those times.

If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of
hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a
volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six
computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately familiar
with -- home with them for free.

Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back of
the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a
very raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space in
the basement until our work space is ready for us.

Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking
for people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a
little of both!

Amanda




From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 14 00:39:41 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:39:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
 donations!
In-Reply-To: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Amanda or Steve--

Your message says that you "accept computer donations", but are you also 
interested in working peripheral devices like printers or scanners?

Best,
Mike


On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Steve Cayford wrote:

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
> Date: 		Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
> From: 		Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>
>
> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to 
> start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open 
> hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and people 
> can drop off their used equipment anytime between those times.
>
> If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website: 
> http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then 
> volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of 
> hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a 
> volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six 
> computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately familiar 
> with -- home with them for free.
>
> Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back of 
> the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a 
> very raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space in 
> the basement until our work space is ready for us.
>
> Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking 
> for people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a 
> little of both!
>
> Amanda


From scott at dier.name  Wed Oct 14 01:10:22 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:10:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
	donations!
In-Reply-To: <51d20ae60910132310x55b014f5ub09593c16aa9695d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu> 
	<51d20ae60910132310x55b014f5ub09593c16aa9695d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60910132310l46443b0nc5601123c954341b@mail.gmail.com>

And when I say trash, I do mean bringing it to hennepin transfer and
recycling it.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
> Also, is there a suggested minimum level of computer? ?I've got a pile
> of stuff that needs to go, and I'd love to give it a possible home
> rather than trash it. ?I need to DBAN a pile of disks too, and perhaps
> I'll try to do that before this weekend and bring over the
> pile-of-legacy-ram, too.
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Amanda or Steve--
>>
>> Your message says that you "accept computer donations", but are you also
>> interested in working peripheral devices like printers or scanners?
>>
>> Best,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Steve Cayford wrote:
>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: ? ? ?Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
>>> Date: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
>>> From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone!
>>>
>>> I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to
>>> start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open
>>> hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and people
>>> can drop off their used equipment anytime between those times.
>>>
>>> If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
>>> http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
>>> volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of
>>> hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a
>>> volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six
>>> computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately familiar
>>> with -- home with them for free.
>>>
>>> Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back of
>>> the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a
>>> very raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space in
>>> the basement until our work space is ready for us.
>>>
>>> Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking
>>> for people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a
>>> little of both!
>>>
>>> Amanda
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>


From scott at dier.name  Wed Oct 14 01:10:03 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:10:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
	donations!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60910132310x55b014f5ub09593c16aa9695d@mail.gmail.com>

Also, is there a suggested minimum level of computer?  I've got a pile
of stuff that needs to go, and I'd love to give it a possible home
rather than trash it.  I need to DBAN a pile of disks too, and perhaps
I'll try to do that before this weekend and bring over the
pile-of-legacy-ram, too.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> Amanda or Steve--
>
> Your message says that you "accept computer donations", but are you also
> interested in working peripheral devices like printers or scanners?
>
> Best,
> Mike
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Steve Cayford wrote:
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: ? ? ?Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
>> Date: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
>> From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>
>>
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to
>> start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open
>> hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and people
>> can drop off their used equipment anytime between those times.
>>
>> If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
>> http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
>> volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of
>> hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a
>> volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six
>> computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately familiar
>> with -- home with them for free.
>>
>> Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back of
>> the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a
>> very raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space in
>> the basement until our work space is ready for us.
>>
>> Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking
>> for people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a
>> little of both!
>>
>> Amanda
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 14 01:47:19 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:47:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
 donations!
In-Reply-To: <6ff731e60910132259y68353018mc12f6ae915344a6d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<6ff731e60910132259y68353018mc12f6ae915344a6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140144460.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Amanda Luker wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> Amanda or Steve--
>>
>> Your message says that you "accept computer donations", but are you 
>> also interested in working peripheral devices like printers or 
>> scanners?
>
> Because of limited space at the moment, I think we have to limit 
> donations to computers and monitors. In the future, we hope to accept 
> anything!


Thanks, Amanda.  Do you accept computers that don't work or are missing 
parts?  Do you need various kinds of parts, wires/connecters, old HDDs, 
etc?

Mike


From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Oct 14 09:19:54 2009
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:19:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
	donations!
In-Reply-To: <51d20ae60910132310l46443b0nc5601123c954341b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<51d20ae60910132310x55b014f5ub09593c16aa9695d@mail.gmail.com>
	<51d20ae60910132310l46443b0nc5601123c954341b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc0910140719k273fef15rc287e21f0686b47@mail.gmail.com>

The freegeek in PDX (http://www.freegeek.org/donate/) takes any computer
or computer related hardware, functional or not.  My understanding of the goals
of freegeek were to literally take what people were "throwing away" and
put it to good use.

On the one hand I'd be surprised if fregeek Twin Cities acceptance criteria was
any different based on my understanding of the "spirit of freegeek".
On the other hand
the goodwill donation center employees in MN pick through the stuff
I'm giving them
to see if it's good enough, whereas in Oregon they just took whatever
I had as long as it didn't look like trash - they were thankful
I gave them a chance to resell whatever I was getting rid of.

So maybe (hopefully not) the Minnesota FreeGeek will be a little different
than what I'm used to.

-Rob


On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
> And when I say trash, I do mean bringing it to hennepin transfer and
> recycling it.
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
>> Also, is there a suggested minimum level of computer? ?I've got a pile
>> of stuff that needs to go, and I'd love to give it a possible home
>> rather than trash it. ?I need to DBAN a pile of disks too, and perhaps
>> I'll try to do that before this weekend and bring over the
>> pile-of-legacy-ram, too.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Amanda or Steve--
>>>
>>> Your message says that you "accept computer donations", but are you also
>>> interested in working peripheral devices like printers or scanners?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Steve Cayford wrote:
>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: ? ? ?Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
>>>> Date: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
>>>> From: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone!
>>>>
>>>> I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to
>>>> start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open
>>>> hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and people
>>>> can drop off their used equipment anytime between those times.
>>>>
>>>> If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
>>>> http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
>>>> volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of
>>>> hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a
>>>> volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six
>>>> computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately familiar
>>>> with -- home with them for free.
>>>>
>>>> Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back of
>>>> the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a
>>>> very raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space in
>>>> the basement until our work space is ready for us.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking
>>>> for people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a
>>>> little of both!
>>>>
>>>> Amanda
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed Oct 14 10:20:36 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:20:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] transferring  mail
In-Reply-To: <4AD52C38.7090205@lctn.org>
References: <4AD3C64C.4020804@lctn.org><AAF18BB593E044B5BA1F64D48C0A8D81@usicorp.usinternet.com><4AD515A6.4090000@lctn.org><858532392-1255479650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-457915565-@bda689.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<4AD52C38.7090205@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <79611CE33C204B53AF9720CEDA2CC10A@usicorp.usinternet.com>

I dont think messages in the hold queue will not get delivered regardless of
postqueue commands. You need to use "postsuper -H ALL" to release them for
delivery.

  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:41 PM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] transferring mail


I use postfix on almost all my mailscanners, etc... I tried postqueue -f
many times, without success. Mail.log did not show any activity either,
which is why I was miffed. It works now, so we're good.








Eric Crist wrote: 

Postfix has a flush command which would have flushed those from the queue.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile



-----Original Message-----

From: Raymond Norton  <mailto:admin at lctn.org> <admin at lctn.org>

Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:04:54 

Cc: 'TCLUG List' <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>

Subject: Re: [tclug-list] transferring  mail



I was able to get postfix working again, and it is delivering mail fine 

now. It wouldn't deliver the old messages that were in the hold queue 

though, so I opened the messages up with a text editor to glean any 

important info before deleting them.



I believe things are working fine now, but can't explain what went wrong 

in the first place.











Justin Krejci wrote:

  

Are you sure there is no hope for your original server? 



In general the best (only really unless you use QMQP) methods of injection

are via smtp and sendmail.

A little loop script could probably burn through your messages rather

quickly depending on how many there are. The Postfix mailing list archives

have examples.

    



_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





  

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From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct 14 13:02:53 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:02:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] transferring  mail
In-Reply-To: <79611CE33C204B53AF9720CEDA2CC10A@usicorp.usinternet.com>
References: <4AD3C64C.4020804@lctn.org><AAF18BB593E044B5BA1F64D48C0A8D81@usicorp.usinternet.com><4AD515A6.4090000@lctn.org><858532392-1255479650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-457915565-@bda689.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<4AD52C38.7090205@lctn.org>
	<79611CE33C204B53AF9720CEDA2CC10A@usicorp.usinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4AD6124D.2040502@lctn.org>

Thanks. I will use that if there is a next time.



Justin Krejci wrote:
> I dont think messages in the hold queue will not get delivered 
> regardless of postqueue commands. You need to use "postsuper -H ALL" to 
> release them for delivery.
> 


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Oct 14 19:44:16 2009
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:44:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
 donations!
In-Reply-To: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <20091014194416.658fb3ef@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:15:29 -0500
Steve Cayford <strayf at freeshell.org> wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able
> to start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our
> open hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend,
> and people can drop off their used equipment anytime between those
> times.
> 
> If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
> http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
> volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of
> hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a
> volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six
> computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately
> familiar with -- home with them for free.

I have a bunch of stuff - do you have a policy on what you do with
incoming hard drives?  Do you want them brought in erased or is
that something I can be assured you will do with any hard drives
you receive?  

Thanks,

Josh


From scott at dier.name  Wed Oct 14 19:49:49 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:49:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
	donations!
In-Reply-To: <20091014194416.658fb3ef@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
	<20091014194416.658fb3ef@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60910141749s692f5c5n1fdc79080c5f49b1@mail.gmail.com>

I know a DBAN-it-yourself station would be freaking awesome. :)

Plus instead of people going to best buy to dispose of perfectly good
hard drives, they could give them to free geek instead.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
> I have a bunch of stuff - do you have a policy on what you do with
> incoming hard drives? ?Do you want them brought in erased or is
> that something I can be assured you will do with any hard drives
> you receive?

-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>


From strayf at freeshell.org  Wed Oct 14 22:14:50 2009
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:14:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now
	accepting	donations!
In-Reply-To: <51d20ae60910141749s692f5c5n1fdc79080c5f49b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>	<20091014194416.658fb3ef@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
	<51d20ae60910141749s692f5c5n1fdc79080c5f49b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AD693AA.8090303@freeshell.org>

Scott Dier wrote:
> I know a DBAN-it-yourself station would be freaking awesome. :)

That would be awesome. We should do that.

> Plus instead of people going to best buy to dispose of perfectly good
> hard drives, they could give them to free geek instead.
> 
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
>> I have a bunch of stuff - do you have a policy on what you do with
>> incoming hard drives?  Do you want them brought in erased or is
>> that something I can be assured you will do with any hard drives
>> you receive?

We will ensure that any donated hard drives are wiped following the
guidelines of Free Geek Portland
(http://www.freegeek.org/donate/security/).

On the earlier discussion about what we'll accept, Free Geek Portland is
generally our guide on these issues, however they have about half a city
block of space and a well-established work-flow. Since we're just
starting out with pretty limited initial resources we will probably need
to focus on just computers and their components, monitors, and the basic
accessories (mice, keyboards, etc) and then broaden our scope as we go.
Any tools or networking equipment would also be gladly accepted since we
need to equip the work space.

I think it would be unreasonable of us to insist that equipment must be
working. As many of us on this list know the definition of "working"
depends a lot on the owner's technical knowledge. It's also a key part
of our mission to see that equipment gets recycled in an ethical and
environmentally responsible manner. What works will get reused and what
doesn't will get recycled.

That said, we encourage financial donations to accompany hardware
donations since we have to pay rent and downstream recycling fees. And
if your equipment is _really_ old and busted... well, be generous. :)

Thanks.

-Steve



From amanda at pinkslipmedia.org  Wed Oct 14 00:59:36 2009
From: amanda at pinkslipmedia.org (Amanda Luker)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:59:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
	donations!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <6ff731e60910132259y68353018mc12f6ae915344a6d@mail.gmail.com>

Because of limited space at the moment, I think we have to limit donations
to computers and monitors. In the future, we hope to accept anything!

Thanks!
Amanda


On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Mike Miller
<mbmiller+l at gmail.com<mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> Amanda or Steve--
>
> Your message says that you "accept computer donations", but are you also
> interested in working peripheral devices like printers or scanners?
>
> Best,
> Mike
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Steve Cayford wrote:
>
>  -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject:        Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
>> Date:           Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
>> From:           Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>
>>
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to
>> start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open hours
>> will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and people can drop
>> off their used equipment anytime between those times.
>>
>> If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
>> http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
>> volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of hours,
>> or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a volunteer has
>> either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six computers, they can
>> take a computer -- that they are intimately familiar with -- home with them
>> for free.
>>
>> Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back of
>> the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a very
>> raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space in the
>> basement until our work space is ready for us.
>>
>> Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking for
>> people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a little of
>> both!
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>
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From amanda at pinkslipmedia.org  Wed Oct 14 10:07:15 2009
From: amanda at pinkslipmedia.org (Amanda Luker)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:07:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting
	donations!
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc0910140719k273fef15rc287e21f0686b47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AD55E71.3090603@freeshell.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910140036360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu> 
	<51d20ae60910132310x55b014f5ub09593c16aa9695d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<51d20ae60910132310l46443b0nc5601123c954341b@mail.gmail.com> 
	<cac10ddc0910140719k273fef15rc287e21f0686b47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6ff731e60910140807p65c78f12vbfc3fd111ed7088@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert,

Yep, we are definitely based on the Portland model. And we will be accepting
everything in the future -- but there is concern that since we are renting
about 450 sq ft, until we get on our feet financially, we won't have space
for everything or the cash to hand the parts we can't use off to a socially
responsible recycler. Portland's Free Geek is a huge full city-block
facility, and they do much of the processing on-site.

Also, to offset the fees from recyclers, we will be asking for a small
donation to take monitors. We'd like to say everything will get used and
find a home, but that isn't always the case, and we want to make sure our
downstream is as responsible as possible.

Hope that helps - I'm checking with folks, but I'm pretty sure we'll take
any computer parts.

Thanks for your interest!
Amanda

PS - There is an education program in Edina that we may partner with called
The Works that accepts other electronics:

http://www.theworks.org/fb/support/inkind_gifts.html




On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

> The freegeek in PDX (http://www.freegeek.org/donate/) takes any computer
> or computer related hardware, functional or not.  My understanding of the
> goals
> of freegeek were to literally take what people were "throwing away" and
> put it to good use.
>
> On the one hand I'd be surprised if fregeek Twin Cities acceptance criteria
> was
> any different based on my understanding of the "spirit of freegeek".
> On the other hand
> the goodwill donation center employees in MN pick through the stuff
> I'm giving them
> to see if it's good enough, whereas in Oregon they just took whatever
> I had as long as it didn't look like trash - they were thankful
> I gave them a chance to resell whatever I was getting rid of.
>
> So maybe (hopefully not) the Minnesota FreeGeek will be a little different
> than what I'm used to.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
> > And when I say trash, I do mean bringing it to hennepin transfer and
> > recycling it.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Scott Dier <scott at dier.name> wrote:
> >> Also, is there a suggested minimum level of computer?  I've got a pile
> >> of stuff that needs to go, and I'd love to give it a possible home
> >> rather than trash it.  I need to DBAN a pile of disks too, and perhaps
> >> I'll try to do that before this weekend and bring over the
> >> pile-of-legacy-ram, too.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com<mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >>> Amanda or Steve--
> >>>
> >>> Your message says that you "accept computer donations", but are you
> also
> >>> interested in working peripheral devices like printers or scanners?
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Steve Cayford wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>> Subject:      Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
> >>>> Date:                 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
> >>>> From:                 Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi everyone!
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to
> >>>> start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open
> >>>> hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and
> people
> >>>> can drop off their used equipment anytime between those times.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
> >>>> http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
> >>>> volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of
> >>>> hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a
> >>>> volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six
> >>>> computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately
> familiar
> >>>> with -- home with them for free.
> >>>>
> >>>> Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back
> of
> >>>> the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a
> >>>> very raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space
> in
> >>>> the basement until our work space is ready for us.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking
> >>>> for people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a
> >>>> little of both!
> >>>>
> >>>> Amanda
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
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From gnomes60 at charter.net  Sat Oct 10 21:24:30 2009
From: gnomes60 at charter.net (The Gnome)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:24:30 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] e-shopping where the lowest price leads (to
	trouble)?
Message-ID: <20091010222430.37FJ5.6651083.root@mp17>

I do research for a living and I researched the complaints from customers of Overstock.Com that showed that 10% + or - of Overstock.Com were scammed out of their money in the following manner.  You purchase an item, 30 + days go by without any contact except that the product has been shipped.  Product never arrives at the customers house/work/wherever.  Customer contacts Overstock and their reply says they are sorry that you didn't like the product and that you returned it so there will be a restocking fee  which eats up over half of what you paid for it.  I was a client who got scammed by Overstock too.  I saved all the emails and the receipts, etc.  This same process was done to the tune of millions of dollars annually whereby all Overstock had to do was process the check, send 2 emails and refund (in my case, less than a third of what I paid for an item I never received because it was never sent).  

The numbers you quoted: "For every bad reseller apple there are 5-10 bad  
customers." are numbers you pulled out of the air and have no basis in fact.  5 to10 is what a first time criminal gets for a felony, who usually out on parole in 18 months.  Bad sellers or resellers can scam thousands in the time it takes a bad customer to scam much fewer sellers/resellers.  The numbers support this conclusion because if it were the other way around, most of the sellers/resellers would be out of business.  

The Gnome


From cayfo001 at umn.edu  Tue Oct 13 23:19:18 2009
From: cayfo001 at umn.edu (Steve Cayford)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:19:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
Message-ID: <4AD55146.20700@umn.edu>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Free Geek Twin Cities is now accepting donations!
Date: 		Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:38:59 -0500
From: 		Amanda Luker <amanda at pinkslipmedia.org>

Hi everyone!

I'm pleased to announce that Free Geek Twin Cities is finally able to
start accepting computer donations, starting THIS WEEKEND. Our open
hours will start off being SATURDAYS NOON-5PM every weekend, and people
can drop off their used equipment anytime between those times.

If you are unfamiliar with this project, check out our website:
http://freegeektwincities.org. We accept computer donations, then
volunteers can come in and take apart computers for a set amount of
hours, or learn how to rebuild them as working machines. After a
volunteer has either accrued 24 hours of volunteer time or built six
computers, they can take a computer -- that they are intimately familiar
with -- home with them for free.

Our location is 3405 Chicago Ave. S., and the entrance is at the back of
the building. Our contact number is (612) 293-7339. It's currently a
very raw space, but we'll be able to stick equipment in storage space in
the basement until our work space is ready for us.

Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions! We are also looking
for people who might want to join our volunteer staff -- or to do a
little of both!

Amanda



From jucziz6 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 20 13:26:50 2009
From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:26:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS configuration
Message-ID: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>

I'm hoping this will be simple, I ran into this issue before but don't
remember what I did to resolve it.

I'm setting up a DNS in my house, it almost works. Nslookup returns
the correct values but when I try to ssh to a system I have to add a
period to the end of the system name for ssh to work.

here is some of the information from named.conf

options {
        directory "/var/named";
        dump-file "/var/named/data/cache_dump.db";
        statistics-file "/var/named/data/named_stats.txt";
        /*
         * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
         * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
         * directive below.  Previous versions of BIND always asked
         * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
         * port by default.
         */
         // query-source address * port 53;
};


zone "43p." IN {
        type master;
        file "43p_0.db";
};
zone "router." IN {
        type master;
        file "router_0.db";
};
zone "41t." IN {
        type master;
        file "41t_0.db";
};


Here is an example of the zone files

$TTL 1H
@       SOA     43p.home.local.     root.dell.home.local. (      2
                                                3H
                                                1H
                                                1W
                                                1H )
        NS      43p.home.local.
        A       192.168.1.50


Thanks


From nesius at gmail.com  Tue Oct 20 13:45:03 2009
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:45:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS configuration
In-Reply-To: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc0910201145q2631b793ted7dce1a478ebcf1@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have an answer for you right off... but this page looks promising.

http://www.au.sorbs.net/faq/dns_primer.shtml

-Rob


On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:26 PM, James <jucziz6 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm hoping this will be simple, I ran into this issue before but don't
> remember what I did to resolve it.
>
> I'm setting up a DNS in my house, it almost works. Nslookup returns
> the correct values but when I try to ssh to a system I have to add a
> period to the end of the system name for ssh to work.
>
> here is some of the information from named.conf
>
> options {
>        directory "/var/named";
>        dump-file "/var/named/data/cache_dump.db";
>        statistics-file "/var/named/data/named_stats.txt";
>        /*
>         * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
>         * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
>         * directive below.  Previous versions of BIND always asked
>         * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
>         * port by default.
>         */
>         // query-source address * port 53;
> };
>
>
> zone "43p." IN {
>        type master;
>        file "43p_0.db";
> };
> zone "router." IN {
>        type master;
>        file "router_0.db";
> };
> zone "41t." IN {
>        type master;
>        file "41t_0.db";
> };
>
>
> Here is an example of the zone files
>
> $TTL 1H
> @       SOA     43p.home.local.     root.dell.home.local. (      2
>                                                3H
>                                                1H
>                                                1W
>                                                1H )
>        NS      43p.home.local.
>        A       192.168.1.50
>
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Oct 20 13:40:53 2009
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:40:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS configuration
In-Reply-To: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201340310.13920@dragon.yaron.org>

Do you have a search domain in resolv.conf?

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, James wrote:

> I'm hoping this will be simple, I ran into this issue before but don't
> remember what I did to resolve it.
>
> I'm setting up a DNS in my house, it almost works. Nslookup returns
> the correct values but when I try to ssh to a system I have to add a
> period to the end of the system name for ssh to work.
>
> here is some of the information from named.conf
>
> options {
>        directory "/var/named";
>        dump-file "/var/named/data/cache_dump.db";
>        statistics-file "/var/named/data/named_stats.txt";
>        /*
>         * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
>         * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
>         * directive below.  Previous versions of BIND always asked
>         * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
>         * port by default.
>         */
>         // query-source address * port 53;
> };
>
>
> zone "43p." IN {
>        type master;
>        file "43p_0.db";
> };
> zone "router." IN {
>        type master;
>        file "router_0.db";
> };
> zone "41t." IN {
>        type master;
>        file "41t_0.db";
> };
>
>
> Here is an example of the zone files
>
> $TTL 1H
> @       SOA     43p.home.local.     root.dell.home.local. (      2
>                                                3H
>                                                1H
>                                                1W
>                                                1H )
>        NS      43p.home.local.
>        A       192.168.1.50
>
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Tue Oct 20 13:47:10 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:47:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS configuration
In-Reply-To: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14847bcfda9f09ac327c5b1f676ec358@mail.liquidphlux.com>


On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:26:50 -0500, James <jucziz6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm hoping this will be simple, I ran into this issue before but don't
> remember what I did to resolve it.
> 
> I'm setting up a DNS in my house, it almost works. Nslookup returns
> the correct values but when I try to ssh to a system I have to add a
> period to the end of the system name for ssh to work.
> 
> here is some of the information from named.conf
> 
> options {
>         directory "/var/named";
>         dump-file "/var/named/data/cache_dump.db";
>         statistics-file "/var/named/data/named_stats.txt";
>         /*
>          * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
>          * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
>          * directive below.  Previous versions of BIND always asked
>          * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
>          * port by default.
>          */
>          // query-source address * port 53;
> };
> 
> 
> zone "43p." IN {
>         type master;
>         file "43p_0.db";
> };
> zone "router." IN {
>         type master;
>         file "router_0.db";
> };
> zone "41t." IN {
>         type master;
>         file "41t_0.db";
> };
> 
> 
> Here is an example of the zone files
> 
> $TTL 1H
> @       SOA     43p.home.local.     root.dell.home.local. (      2
>                                                 3H
>                                                 1H
>                                                 1W
>                                                 1H )
>         NS      43p.home.local.
>         A       192.168.1.50
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

Here is an example for my internal zone. Yours looks a bit funny, but then
again, that could be the way my MUA formats it.

$TTL    3600

itspecific.com. IN      SOA     ns1.itspecific.com.    
root.liquidphlux.com. (

                                                9       ;       Serial
                                                1000    ;       Refresh
                                                50      ;       Retry
                                                604800  ;       Expire
                                                86400 ) ;       Minimum
TTL

;DNS Servers
                        IN      NS              ns1.itspecific.com.
                        IN      NS              ns2.itspecific.com.
;Machine Names
ns1.itspecific.com.     IN      A               172.16.0.52
ns2.itspecific.com.     IN      A               172.16.0.53
itspecific.com.         IN      A               172.16.0.51
esxserver.itspecific.com.       IN      A       172.16.0.130
;Aliases
jinzora                 IN      CNAME           itspecific.com.


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 20 14:15:05 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:15:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] keyboard and mouse not available in X
Message-ID: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>

My keyboard and mouse do not work once my Ubuntu 9.4 laptop boots up. 
I'm sure this problem can be traced back to my experimentation with lirc 
last night.

I booted to recovery mode and disabled everything lirc, using 
update-rc.d -f lirc remove

I still cannot access my desktop with the built in or external keyboard. 
Both work fine prior to the laptop booting up fully.


Just for good measure I reconfigured X, but that did not help.


Any ideas what to look for?



From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Tue Oct 20 14:33:40 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:33:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] keyboard and mouse not available in X
In-Reply-To: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>
References: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>


On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:15:05 -0500, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> My keyboard and mouse do not work once my Ubuntu 9.4 laptop boots up. 
> I'm sure this problem can be traced back to my experimentation with lirc

> last night.
> 
> I booted to recovery mode and disabled everything lirc, using 
> update-rc.d -f lirc remove
> 
> I still cannot access my desktop with the built in or external keyboard.

> Both work fine prior to the laptop booting up fully.
> 
> 
> Just for good measure I reconfigured X, but that did not help.
> 
> 
> Any ideas what to look for?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

You may want to check /var/log/messages after boot. There is also an xorg
log file as well that may hold clues. I want to clarify, are you able to
use the KB/Mouse prior to X starting, I.e... are you able to get to tty0,
or tty1, so on and so forth?

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 20 14:35:33 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:35:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] keyboard and mouse not available in X
In-Reply-To: <7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>
References: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>
	<7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>
Message-ID: <4ADE1105.7020101@lctn.org>

Don't know about the mouse, but keyboards work prior to X starting


> 
> You may want to check /var/log/messages after boot. There is also an xorg
> 
> log file as well that may hold clues. I want to clarify, are you able to
> 
> use the KB/Mouse prior to X starting, I.e... are you able to get to tty0,
> 
> or tty1, so on and so forth?
> 
> 
> 


From jucziz6 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 20 14:44:52 2009
From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:44:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS configuration
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201340310.13920@dragon.yaron.org>
References: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201340310.13920@dragon.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <81675d140910201244q6afcdc6exd8850c530f320d33@mail.gmail.com>

I have both the search and domain defined in my /etc/resolv.conf file.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> Do you have a search domain in resolv.conf?
>
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, James wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping this will be simple, I ran into this issue before but don't
>> remember what I did to resolve it.
>>
>> I'm setting up a DNS in my house, it almost works. Nslookup returns
>> the correct values but when I try to ssh to a system I have to add a
>> period to the end of the system name for ssh to work.
>>
>> here is some of the information from named.conf
>>
>> options {
>> ? ? ? ?directory "/var/named";
>> ? ? ? ?dump-file "/var/named/data/cache_dump.db";
>> ? ? ? ?statistics-file "/var/named/data/named_stats.txt";
>> ? ? ? ?/*
>> ? ? ? ? * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
>> ? ? ? ? * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
>> ? ? ? ? * directive below. ?Previous versions of BIND always asked
>> ? ? ? ? * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
>> ? ? ? ? * port by default.
>> ? ? ? ? */
>> ? ? ? ? // query-source address * port 53;
>> };
>>
>>
>> zone "43p." IN {
>> ? ? ? ?type master;
>> ? ? ? ?file "43p_0.db";
>> };
>> zone "router." IN {
>> ? ? ? ?type master;
>> ? ? ? ?file "router_0.db";
>> };
>> zone "41t." IN {
>> ? ? ? ?type master;
>> ? ? ? ?file "41t_0.db";
>> };
>>
>>
>> Here is an example of the zone files
>>
>> $TTL 1H
>> @ ? ? ? SOA ? ? 43p.home.local. ? ? root.dell.home.local. ( ? ? ?2
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3H
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1H
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1W
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1H )
>> ? ? ? ?NS ? ? ?43p.home.local.
>> ? ? ? ?A ? ? ? 192.168.1.50
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Oct 20 14:48:13 2009
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:48:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS configuration
In-Reply-To: <81675d140910201244q6afcdc6exd8850c530f320d33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201340310.13920@dragon.yaron.org>
	<81675d140910201244q6afcdc6exd8850c530f320d33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201445460.13920@dragon.yaron.org>

Then, like other people mentioned, your zone files are setup in some weird 
way (: Least different from ours. Maybe try using the other person's 
example as a template?

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, James wrote:

> I have both the search and domain defined in my /etc/resolv.conf file.
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>> Do you have a search domain in resolv.conf?
>>
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, James wrote:
>>
>>> I'm hoping this will be simple, I ran into this issue before but don't
>>> remember what I did to resolve it.
>>>
>>> I'm setting up a DNS in my house, it almost works. Nslookup returns
>>> the correct values but when I try to ssh to a system I have to add a
>>> period to the end of the system name for ssh to work.
>>>
>>> here is some of the information from named.conf
>>>
>>> options {
>>> ? ? ? ?directory "/var/named";
>>> ? ? ? ?dump-file "/var/named/data/cache_dump.db";
>>> ? ? ? ?statistics-file "/var/named/data/named_stats.txt";
>>> ? ? ? ?/*
>>> ? ? ? ? * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
>>> ? ? ? ? * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
>>> ? ? ? ? * directive below. ?Previous versions of BIND always asked
>>> ? ? ? ? * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
>>> ? ? ? ? * port by default.
>>> ? ? ? ? */
>>> ? ? ? ? // query-source address * port 53;
>>> };
>>>
>>>
>>> zone "43p." IN {
>>> ? ? ? ?type master;
>>> ? ? ? ?file "43p_0.db";
>>> };
>>> zone "router." IN {
>>> ? ? ? ?type master;
>>> ? ? ? ?file "router_0.db";
>>> };
>>> zone "41t." IN {
>>> ? ? ? ?type master;
>>> ? ? ? ?file "41t_0.db";
>>> };
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is an example of the zone files
>>>
>>> $TTL 1H
>>> @ ? ? ? SOA ? ? 43p.home.local. ? ? root.dell.home.local. ( ? ? ?2
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3H
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1H
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1W
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1H )
>>> ? ? ? ?NS ? ? ?43p.home.local.
>>> ? ? ? ?A ? ? ? 192.168.1.50
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> -Yaron
>>
>> --
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>


-Yaron

--

From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Tue Oct 20 15:00:01 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:00:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] keyboard and mouse not available in X
In-Reply-To: <7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>
References: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>
	<7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>
Message-ID: <e71ef21de13f288d8fbc9f93e89a1390@mail.liquidphlux.com>


On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:33:40 -0500, Andrew Kuriger
<a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:15:05 -0500, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
wrote:
>> My keyboard and mouse do not work once my Ubuntu 9.4 laptop boots up. 
>> I'm sure this problem can be traced back to my experimentation with
lirc
> 
>> last night.
>> 
>> I booted to recovery mode and disabled everything lirc, using 
>> update-rc.d -f lirc remove
>> 
>> I still cannot access my desktop with the built in or external
keyboard.
> 
>> Both work fine prior to the laptop booting up fully.
>> 
>> 
>> Just for good measure I reconfigured X, but that did not help.
>> 
>> 
>> Any ideas what to look for?
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> You may want to check /var/log/messages after boot. There is also an
xorg
> log file as well that may hold clues. I want to clarify, are you able to
> use the KB/Mouse prior to X starting, I.e... are you able to get to
tty0,
> or tty1, so on and so forth?

I guess i kind of wrote this wrong (Coffee++). After you start X, or after
it starts automatically after boot, are you able to get to tty0 (CTRL-ALT +
F1) and get to a terminal? if so, you at lest now know the issue resides in
xorg.conf and not the kernel/applications. I am guessing it probably has to
do with Xorg. If this is the case, rename the current xorg.conf and run
"Xorg -configure" to create a new xorg.conf. FYI X should not be running at
the time you run this. Also. if you have an nvidia GPU use nvidia-xconfig.
-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Tue Oct 20 15:23:25 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:23:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] DNS configuration
In-Reply-To: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81675d140910201126q64de2e5fpf7b9338c5573a0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b7fe813d1d23c7ec0558792f24e105bf@mail.liquidphlux.com>


Sorry had to say use dig instead of M$'s nslookup. It WILL save your life.

/shameless-plug

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:26:50 -0500, James <jucziz6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm hoping this will be simple, I ran into this issue before but don't
> remember what I did to resolve it.
> 
> I'm setting up a DNS in my house, it almost works. Nslookup returns
> the correct values but when I try to ssh to a system I have to add a
> period to the end of the system name for ssh to work.
> 
> here is some of the information from named.conf
> 
> options {
>         directory "/var/named";
>         dump-file "/var/named/data/cache_dump.db";
>         statistics-file "/var/named/data/named_stats.txt";
>         /*
>          * If there is a firewall between you and nameservers you want
>          * to talk to, you might need to uncomment the query-source
>          * directive below.  Previous versions of BIND always asked
>          * questions using port 53, but BIND 8.1 uses an unprivileged
>          * port by default.
>          */
>          // query-source address * port 53;
> };
> 
> 
> zone "43p." IN {
>         type master;
>         file "43p_0.db";
> };
> zone "router." IN {
>         type master;
>         file "router_0.db";
> };
> zone "41t." IN {
>         type master;
>         file "41t_0.db";
> };
> 
> 
> Here is an example of the zone files
> 
> $TTL 1H
> @       SOA     43p.home.local.     root.dell.home.local. (      2
>                                                 3H
>                                                 1H
>                                                 1W
>                                                 1H )
>         NS      43p.home.local.
>         A       192.168.1.50
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Oct 20 15:24:31 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:24:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201515430.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I want to hook up a computer to my stereo, but to keep it as quiet as 
possible, I want it to be on the other side of the wall (a thin basement 
wall).  I can run wires through the wall for audio/video, and I could do 
mouse and keyboard by wire through the wall, but it seems like it would be 
way cooler to use bluetooth or some other kind of remote radio-like 
system.  Any ideas?

I'm using the latest Ubuntu (and probably will upgrade in 9 days when 9.10 
comes out), so if there is something that is known to easily work with 
that, I'd love to know about it.  Thanks.

Mike


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct 20 15:34:23 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:34:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] keyboard and mouse not available in X
In-Reply-To: <e71ef21de13f288d8fbc9f93e89a1390@mail.liquidphlux.com>
References: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>
	<7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>
	<e71ef21de13f288d8fbc9f93e89a1390@mail.liquidphlux.com>
Message-ID: <20091020203423.GO20918@iris.iucha.org>

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 03:00:01PM -0500, Andrew Kuriger wrote:
> I guess i kind of wrote this wrong (Coffee++). After you start X, or after
> it starts automatically after boot, are you able to get to tty0 (CTRL-ALT +
> F1) and get to a terminal? if so, you at lest now know the issue resides in
> xorg.conf and not the kernel/applications.

If not, the gdm might be running on the first console instead of
running on tty7 as it was for the past 15 years.  So, keep trying
Ctrl-Alt-F2, F3, F4... untill you see the dark [tty].

>                                            I am guessing it probably has to
> do with Xorg. If this is the case, rename the current xorg.conf and run
> "Xorg -configure" to create a new xorg.conf. FYI X should not be running at
> the time you run this. Also. if you have an nvidia GPU use nvidia-xconfig.

Good advice.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Tue Oct 20 15:43:19 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:43:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201515430.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201515430.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <728d9fbc948182b75bfcf2c5707a4dda@mail.liquidphlux.com>


Howdy Mike!

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:24:31 -0500 (CDT), Mike Miller
<mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to hook up a computer to my stereo, but to keep it as quiet as 
> possible, I want it to be on the other side of the wall (a thin basement

> wall).  I can run wires through the wall for audio/video, and I could do

> mouse and keyboard by wire through the wall, but it seems like it would
be 
> way cooler to use bluetooth or some other kind of remote radio-like 
> system.  Any ideas?
> 
> I'm using the latest Ubuntu (and probably will upgrade in 9 days when
9.10 
> comes out), so if there is something that is known to easily work with 
> that, I'd love to know about it.  Thanks.
> 
> Mike
> 

I have
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0252149
which is an RF wireless KB and it works like a charm on my XBMC box. I
haven't tried any blue-tooth keyboards but I doubt you would have a problem
with them. I also got mine for free, didn't realize it was 79.99 ;-D

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 20 15:46:33 2009
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:46:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201515430.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201515430.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1256071593.24005.11.camel@robert>

On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 15:24 -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> I want to hook up a computer to my stereo, but to keep it as quiet as 
> possible, I want it to be on the other side of the wall (a thin basement 
> wall).  I can run wires through the wall for audio/video, and I could do 
> mouse and keyboard by wire through the wall, but it seems like it would be 
> way cooler to use bluetooth or some other kind of remote radio-like 
> system.  Any ideas?
> 
> I'm using the latest Ubuntu (and probably will upgrade in 9 days when 9.10 
> comes out), so if there is something that is known to easily work with 
> that, I'd love to know about it.  Thanks.
> 
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but you can get
an FM transmitter for about $20 which will transmit the output of your
computer audio card to an FM receiver. That assumes that your stereo has
an FM tuner, and that that is the direction you want to go.

Bluetooth is not very good for anything better than voice.

Robert



From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 20 15:54:41 2009
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:54:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
Message-ID: <1256072081.24005.14.camel@robert>

You can get a good price on a bluetooth mouse and/or keyboard from
newegg.com, frys.com or eBay.com.



From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 20 16:57:58 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:57:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] keyboard and mouse not available in X
In-Reply-To: <20091020203423.GO20918@iris.iucha.org>
References: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>	<7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>	<e71ef21de13f288d8fbc9f93e89a1390@mail.liquidphlux.com>
	<20091020203423.GO20918@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4ADE3266.4020500@lctn.org>

I ran Xorg -configure; it created a new xorg.conf.new in my home 
directory. I then ran Xorg -config xorg.conf.new to test this. X 
started, and I was able to move the mouse around this time, but the 
desktop was blank. I copied xorg.conf.new to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and 
enabled gdm again. I can now login again, and have my normal desktop but 
my network adapters do not show up in gnome, or via ifconfig, but they 
do show up in network manager. I was able to add eth0 via ifconfig and 
it works, so I am guessing it is gdm problem????


Thanks much for the help! I will plug away to get everything working again.



Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 03:00:01PM -0500, Andrew Kuriger wrote:
>> I guess i kind of wrote this wrong (Coffee++). After you start X, or after
>> it starts automatically after boot, are you able to get to tty0 (CTRL-ALT +
>> F1) and get to a terminal? if so, you at lest now know the issue resides in
>> xorg.conf and not the kernel/applications.
> 
> If not, the gdm might be running on the first console instead of
> running on tty7 as it was for the past 15 years.  So, keep trying
> Ctrl-Alt-F2, F3, F4... untill you see the dark [tty].
> 
>>                                            I am guessing it probably has to
>> do with Xorg. If this is the case, rename the current xorg.conf and run
>> "Xorg -configure" to create a new xorg.conf. FYI X should not be running at
>> the time you run this. Also. if you have an nvidia GPU use nvidia-xconfig.
> 
> Good advice.
> 
> Cheers,
> florin
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Tue Oct 20 17:22:28 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:22:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] keyboard and mouse not available in X
In-Reply-To: <4ADE3266.4020500@lctn.org>
References: <4ADE0C39.1020902@lctn.org>	<7fe2b55492da383de3ff4e6bb7315d97@mail.liquidphlux.com>	<e71ef21de13f288d8fbc9f93e89a1390@mail.liquidphlux.com>
	<20091020203423.GO20918@iris.iucha.org> <4ADE3266.4020500@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <11cf5c7dcea10131c9b81d62295c5d6a@mail.liquidphlux.com>


Hello Raymond. Glad to hear you got it working.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:57:58 -0500, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I ran Xorg -configure; it created a new xorg.conf.new in my home 
> directory. I then ran Xorg -config xorg.conf.new to test this. X 
> started, and I was able to move the mouse around this time

This was expected, when testing, all you will get is a blank screen with a
mouse cursor just to let you know it is working.

>, but the 
> desktop was blank. I copied xorg.conf.new to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and 
> enabled gdm again. I can now login again, and have my normal desktop but

> my network adapters do not show up in gnome, or via ifconfig, 

That's darn strange. I'm guessing that you may have meant that network
interfaces showed up in ifconfig but not network manager? AFAIK
network-manager is a front end for ifconfig, so if there are no interfaces
in ifconfig, there should be none in gnome-network-manager. I don't have an
Ubuntu box or VM at the moment so I cant explain or test anything on my
end.

>but they 
> do show up in network manager. I was able to add eth0 via ifconfig and 
> it works, so I am guessing it is gdm problem????
> 
> 
> Thanks much for the help! I will plug away to get everything working
again.

Anytime!

>
> 
> 
> Florin Iucha wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 03:00:01PM -0500, Andrew Kuriger wrote:
>>> I guess i kind of wrote this wrong (Coffee++). After you start X, or
>>> after
>>> it starts automatically after boot, are you able to get to tty0
>>> (CTRL-ALT +
>>> F1) and get to a terminal? if so, you at lest now know the issue
>>> resides in
>>> xorg.conf and not the kernel/applications.
>> 
>> If not, the gdm might be running on the first console instead of
>> running on tty7 as it was for the past 15 years.  So, keep trying
>> Ctrl-Alt-F2, F3, F4... untill you see the dark [tty].
>> 
>>>                                            I am guessing it probably
>>>                                            has to
>>> do with Xorg. If this is the case, rename the current xorg.conf and
run
>>> "Xorg -configure" to create a new xorg.conf. FYI X should not be
>>> running at
>>> the time you run this. Also. if you have an nvidia GPU use
>>> nvidia-xconfig.
>> 
>> Good advice.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> florin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 20 20:17:52 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:17:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201515430.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEHNCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

My case was just to get quality audio from a good and quiet enough laptop computer.   I chose to use a simple wired audio link.
ie, headphone out on computer to RCA-type AUX-IN on stereo.  Cables run about $2 ppd off ebay.

I also use similar cables to get top-quality audio from a high-end Sony WEGA TV.

(Harmon Kardon & Scott receiver/amps, high-end Boston Acoustics speakers.  I don't believe "computer audio" stuff can match it)

This has no fiddling at all, and add-on is CHEAP!.

Audio quality seems fine with cables up to 12 ft long, and the highs I worried about are good without tweaking.

Bluetooth seems to require that I fiddle, restart, etc, (especially when there are multiple units active) and an adapter costs more.


Chuck


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:25 PM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
>
>
> I want to hook up a computer to my stereo, but to keep it as quiet as
> possible, I want it to be on the other side of the wall (a thin basement
> wall).  I can run wires through the wall for audio/video, and I could do
> mouse and keyboard by wire through the wall, but it seems like it would be
> way cooler to use bluetooth or some other kind of remote radio-like
> system.  Any ideas?
>
> I'm using the latest Ubuntu (and probably will upgrade in 9 days when 9.10
> comes out), so if there is something that is known to easily work with
> that, I'd love to know about it.  Thanks.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.22/2446 - Release Date: 10/20/09 10:43:00
>



From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Oct 20 20:23:11 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:23:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
In-Reply-To: <1256071593.24005.11.camel@robert>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEHNCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:47 PM

> I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but you can get
> an FM transmitter for about $20 which will transmit the output of your
> computer audio card to an FM receiver. That assumes that your stereo has
> an FM tuner, and that that is the direction you want to go.

I've used that method, and prefer a wired connection.


> Bluetooth is not very good for anything better than voice.

Not the whole story!  There are a few different classes of service and connection for bluetooth.  The specs cover top-end CD audio
quality.  The stereo headphones I have are GREAT, and will also serve low-end cell phone uses.  These are not tiny earbud or mono
cell phone gear.

There is a reduced class of service for cell phones (etc) that is limited.  My Dell setup menus identify several connection type
options and differing equipment types.  I chose to buy high-end, full range bluetooth adapters for my laptops.  I think there were
older or limited hardware options also available.


Chuck





From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct 21 10:51:25 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:51:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] missing network interfaces
Message-ID: <4ADF2DFD.8070303@lctn.org>

I was able to get x windows working yesterday with the recommended fix 
that was posted. My desktop is back as expected, but the network 
connections panel in gnome says there are no network interfaces, and 
ifconfig in terminal only shows a loopback interface. The network app 
(Ubuntu) shows all interfaces, and settings that have been previously 
configured-eth0, and wlan0. I am able to manually bring the interfaces 
up using ifconfig, and iwconfig. I'm looking for a way to auto start the 
interfaces, and make them available in gnome again.


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Wed Oct 21 11:18:08 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:18:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] missing network interfaces
In-Reply-To: <4ADF2DFD.8070303@lctn.org>
References: <4ADF2DFD.8070303@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <25ea07729c76de9d299c86a212ac3af4@mail.liquidphlux.com>


On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:51:25 -0500, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I was able to get x windows working yesterday with the recommended fix 
> that was posted. My desktop is back as expected, but the network 
> connections panel in gnome says there are no network interfaces, and 
> ifconfig in terminal only shows a loopback interface. The network app 
> (Ubuntu) shows all interfaces, and settings that have been previously 
> configured-eth0, and wlan0. I am able to manually bring the interfaces 
> up using ifconfig, and iwconfig. I'm looking for a way to auto start the

> interfaces, and make them available in gnome again.
> 

Ah ha! I believe NetworkManager is not starting at boot for you as I can
reproduce the problem you are having to a T. If if disable it, or stop it,
ifconfig only reports the loopback device, yet in gnome-nettool I am able
to see all interfaces. If you run:

sudo /etc/init.d/NetworkManager start

do all network interfaces return via ifconfig? Mine does.

If this works make sure you enable it to start at boot:

sudo update-rc.d NetworkManager defaults

Any luck?

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 12:09:03 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:09:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEHNCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEHNCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910211205130.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:

> My case was just to get quality audio from a good and quiet enough 
> laptop computer.  I chose to use a simple wired audio link. ie, 
> headphone out on computer to RCA-type AUX-IN on stereo.  Cables run 
> about $2 ppd off ebay.
>
> I also use similar cables to get top-quality audio from a high-end Sony 
> WEGA TV.

Sounds identical to my home (even Sony WEGA until three days ago when I 
replaced with Insignia 42" 60 Hz from Best Buy).  I keep the audio server 
on one box and the laptop(s) can get music from the server and play it on 
speakers that I have placed in various rooms.


> (Harmon Kardon & Scott receiver/amps, high-end Boston Acoustics 
> speakers.  I don't believe "computer audio" stuff can match it)

Definitely, but I do use some $3 used Altec computer speakers in various 
rooms because they sound OK and it is way the hell cheaper than buying a 
whole bunch of nice stereo systems for all those rooms!


> This has no fiddling at all, and add-on is CHEAP!.
>
> Audio quality seems fine with cables up to 12 ft long, and the highs I 
> worried about are good without tweaking.
>
> Bluetooth seems to require that I fiddle, restart, etc, (especially when 
> there are multiple units active) and an adapter costs more.

Sure, but I'm asking about the keyboard, not about the audio out.

Mike


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 21 13:03:28 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:03:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910211205130.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEBEPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller [mailto:mbmiller at gmail.com]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 12:09 PM
>
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > (Harmon Kardon & Scott receiver/amps, high-end Boston Acoustics
> > speakers.  I don't believe "computer audio" stuff can match it)
>
> Definitely, but I do use some $3 used Altec computer speakers in various
> rooms because they sound OK and it is way the hell cheaper than buying a
> whole bunch of nice stereo systems for all those rooms!

I have some "little" Altec, Polk, and Boston Acoustics also for the same reason.  I occasionally find good ones at thrifts.

> > Bluetooth seems to require that I fiddle, restart, etc, (especially when
> > there are multiple units active) and an adapter costs more.
>
> Sure, but I'm asking about the keyboard, not about the audio out.

IR and RF wireless things exist.  I think the "Blue ones" use a limited part of the spec and may not need the fiddling that my high
end stereo link does.  My need for fiddling may be only be the fault of a battery save feature in the stereo headphones.  Battery
recharging might be a nuisance, but my IR keyboard goes over a year on throw-away AA cells.

I'd consider wire first, and wireless only if wire is a big problem...   or wire thru the wall to a USB adapter and use a keyboard
and mouse that have separate USB receiver(s).  Some of those have a docking feature for recharge.    I don't know these product
families very well, however.

Happy hunting!


Chuck



From admin at lctn.org  Wed Oct 21 13:33:01 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:33:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] missing network interfaces
In-Reply-To: <25ea07729c76de9d299c86a212ac3af4@mail.liquidphlux.com>
References: <4ADF2DFD.8070303@lctn.org>
	<25ea07729c76de9d299c86a212ac3af4@mail.liquidphlux.com>
Message-ID: <4ADF53DD.7080904@lctn.org>

Unfortunately, no... NetworkManager was already running. A restart 
didn't change it. I ran update-rc.d, but it said NetworkManager was 
already there.

Everything works with a Live CD, so I know the hardware is fine.



> sudo /etc/init.d/NetworkManager start
> 
> 
> 
> do all network interfaces return via ifconfig? Mine does.
> 
> 
> 
> If this works make sure you enable it to start at boot:
> 
> 
> 
> sudo update-rc.d NetworkManager defaults
> 
> 
> 
> Any luck?
> 
> 
> 


From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Wed Oct 21 18:28:01 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:28:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Install FEST! @ PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting Saturday
	Oct. 31
Message-ID: <4ADF9901.5020402@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday October 31 at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 9:00am to 4:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

To celebrate the release of Ubuntu 9.10 we are have an Install Fest!

So come, bring your computers and install Ubuntu 9.10 (or any Linux 
Distribution!) from 9:00am to 4:00pm October 31 !

You can learn more about the Ubuntu 9.10 ( Karmic Koala ) here
http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta
or some here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases#Ubuntu_9.10_.28Karmic_Koala.29

Hope to see you there!


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Oct 22 14:36:17 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:36:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cacert.org question
Message-ID: <4AE0B431.1090802@lctn.org>

Anyone have experience using cacert.org? I am trying to submit a .pem 
file to generate a certificate, but it always bounces back the following 
message. I have generated 6-8 pem files now trying to figure out how to 
get past the error.

<error>
CommonName field was blank. This is usually caused by entering your own 
name when openssl prompt's you for 'YOUR NAME', or if you try to issue 
certificates for domains you haven't already verified, as such this 
process can't continue.
</error>


Just for a test, I submitted a blank page and it gave me the same error.

(My domain shows it is verified)




From admin at lctn.org  Thu Oct 22 14:52:52 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:52:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cacert.org question
In-Reply-To: <F4AB0C23-DE8E-4813-A31C-AC18D8A42D2A@secure-computing.net>
References: <4AE0B431.1090802@lctn.org>
	<F4AB0C23-DE8E-4813-A31C-AC18D8A42D2A@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <4AE0B814.4050503@lctn.org>

Yes.. I have entered everything from a FQDN to a single host name, name
of the vpn, tried it with parenthesis, and without, etc....

Eric F Crist wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2009, at 14:36:17, Raymond Norton wrote:
> 
>> Anyone have experience using cacert.org? I am trying to submit a .pem
>> file to generate a certificate, but it always bounces back the following
>> message. I have generated 6-8 pem files now trying to figure out how to
>> get past the error.
>>
>> <error>
>> CommonName field was blank. This is usually caused by entering your own
>> name when openssl prompt's you for 'YOUR NAME', or if you try to issue
>> certificates for domains you haven't already verified, as such this
>> process can't continue.
>> </error>
>>
>>
>> Just for a test, I submitted a blank page and it gave me the same error.
>>
>> (My domain shows it is verified)
> 
> Silly question, but are you populating the CommonName field?
> 
> ---
> Eric Crist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Thu Oct 22 14:50:01 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:50:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] cacert.org question
In-Reply-To: <4AE0B431.1090802@lctn.org>
References: <4AE0B431.1090802@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <F4AB0C23-DE8E-4813-A31C-AC18D8A42D2A@secure-computing.net>

On Oct 22, 2009, at 14:36:17, Raymond Norton wrote:

> Anyone have experience using cacert.org? I am trying to submit a .pem
> file to generate a certificate, but it always bounces back the  
> following
> message. I have generated 6-8 pem files now trying to figure out how  
> to
> get past the error.
>
> <error>
> CommonName field was blank. This is usually caused by entering your  
> own
> name when openssl prompt's you for 'YOUR NAME', or if you try to issue
> certificates for domains you haven't already verified, as such this
> process can't continue.
> </error>
>
>
> Just for a test, I submitted a blank page and it gave me the same  
> error.
>
> (My domain shows it is verified)

Silly question, but are you populating the CommonName field?

---
Eric Crist






From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Oct 22 23:17:48 2009
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 04:17:48 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] cacert.org question
Message-ID: <234760953-1256271650-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1348353564-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Generally considered some of the best documentation of all OS's I'd direct you to the OpenBSD FAQ 

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#HTTPS 

Replace file locations as necessary or skip steps as needed such as the self signing step. Whether for apache or not the cert should be usable. The "commonname" field is the place you fill in your domain name the cert is specifically for like secure.example.com or whatever. I've used this method for cacert certificates without issue before

------Original Message------
From: Raymond Norton
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
To: TCLUG List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] cacert.org question
Sent: Oct 22, 2009 2:52 PM

Yes.. I have entered everything from a FQDN to a single host name, name
of the vpn, tried it with parenthesis, and without, etc....

Eric F Crist wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2009, at 14:36:17, Raymond Norton wrote:
> 
>> Anyone have experience using cacert.org? I am trying to submit a .pem
>> file to generate a certificate, but it always bounces back the following
>> message. I have generated 6-8 pem files now trying to figure out how to
>> get past the error.
>>
>> <error>
>> CommonName field was blank. This is usually caused by entering your own
>> name when openssl prompt's you for 'YOUR NAME', or if you try to issue
>> certificates for domains you haven't already verified, as such this
>> process can't continue.
>> </error>
>>
>>
>> Just for a test, I submitted a blank page and it gave me the same error.
>>
>> (My domain shows it is verified)
> 
> Silly question, but are you populating the CommonName field?
> 
> ---
> Eric Crist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Oct 25 09:08:39 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:08:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow transfers from Samba to Windows 7 and Vista
In-Reply-To: <E139BDEF-49F0-4648-8B3C-AE86D00EFEBC@cwis.biz>
References: <E91B3B6A-1F5D-4E00-A48E-86D7DF99780A@cwis.biz>
	<4A9CBC76.2000104@e-skinner.net>
	<cac10ddc0909010712v2c42c20cg3a5f53f03aecb3e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<E139BDEF-49F0-4648-8B3C-AE86D00EFEBC@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <57059E8C-A888-4CF3-AE3C-F64EA67642F2@cwis.biz>

Ok so I've done some of the changes... I fooled around with the  
settings and I got bursts of 5-10MB from WWW and FTP but then slowed  
down to 300KB/sec... so I am thinking a $15 NIC might be my next  
purchase.

My line now says:
>> socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=16384 SO_SNDBUF=16384

16,384 is getting me a more consistent speed over 200KB/sec (I tested  
many different options/powers of 2) so I'm sticking with it for the  
time being.

--
Ryan

On Sep 1, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Robert,
>
> 1) Yes, but not from that machine. Other systems have not had issues  
> and this particular computer downloads off 8Mb cable at full  
> throttle in SMB over VPN, FTP, WWW and SMTP.
>
> 2) All connections are wired. CAT-5e and CAT-6 cables, used a  
> crossover when testing direct transfer, too, but that cable has been  
> lost since the the test in April (IIRC, I don't need a XO for  
> gigabit anyway).
>
> I'm home sick today, and I might get the strength to get out of bed  
> and sit at the computer soon. RDP is available but I am not that  
> lazy ;-)
>
> Thanks again,
> Ryan
>
> On Sep 1, 2009, at 9:12 AM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>  
>> wrote:
>> > i would also check the duplex and auto-neg setting on the samba  
>> server.
>> > i would hard set them as well.
>>
>> Marc,
>>
>> You nailed the one thing that came to mind for me too - I've seen  
>> mysterious/slow through-puts before and it's always been mis- 
>> matched duplex settings for me.  Plus, first rule of debugging  
>> stuff like this - "Start at the physical layer."
>>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> Have you tried other file-transfer protocols?  i.e., ftp or copying  
>> a file using ssh or rsync?   If those were fast while SMB was slow,  
>> then debugging service-configs would be the place to look.  If  
>> those are slow too, look at the physical layer.  I know you're  
>> using an airport extreme, but are you hooked up to it with physical  
>> cables or is everything going wireless?  I suspect you have wired  
>> connections but if not that does change things a bit.
>>
>> When you tried your direct connection that failed to work, were you  
>> using a cross-over cable?
>>
>> While your description of your setup was pretty good, there are  
>> still points of ambiguity - if the problem still exists after your  
>> next round of debugging draw a picture of your network config.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>  
>> wrote:
>> look at the "socket options" in smb.conf i have mine set as:
>>
>> socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
>>
>> i would also check the duplex and auto-neg setting on the samba  
>> server.
>> i would hard set them as well.
>>
>> my 2 cents.
>>
>> On 09/01/2009 12:50 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> > I'm having painfully slow transfers from my FreeBSD 6.3 ia64  
>> running
>> > Samba 3.3 to Vista (between 1KiBps to 15KiBps) and also to  
>> Windows 7
>> > (50KiBps to 250 KiBps) and I've tried all the windows corrections  
>> up
>> > and down the board to no avail. I've finally given up on fixing
>> > Windows, so it must be my Samba installation.
>> >
>> > I'm fairly certain I have not forgotten anything from the file  
>> except
>> > 4 fileshares that are unrelated to the issue. Archive is a 6.4TB  
>> RAID5
>> > (7x1TB drives) that runs blazingly fast in local as well as  
>> internet
>> > traffic.
>> >
>> > All components (Windows 7, Vista and FreeBSD) are connected  
>> through an
>> > Airport Extreme, but this slowness was experienced even on a basic
>> > 10/100 switch so it is not solely a problem with the Airport. Also
>> > direct connection did not work and Firewire support was dropped in
>> > Vista so there was no alternate "ethernet" option available to me.
>> > File transfers from my MacBook Pro perform as expected, with speeds
>> > ranging from 5MB/sec to 30MB/sec depending on the connect type.
>> >
>> > Any and all advice would be most appreciative.
>> >
>> > TIA,
>> > Ryan
>> >
>> > smb.conf:
>> > [global]
>> >          dns proxy = no
>> >          log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m
>> >          load printers = yes
>> >          server string = UnixBox2
>> >          workgroup = WORKGROUP
>> >          os level = 20
>> >          encrypt passwords = yes
>> >          security = share
>> >          max log size = 50
>> >
>> > [homes]
>> >     comment = Home Directories
>> >     browseable = no
>> >     writable = yes
>> >
>> >
>> > [archive]
>> >          delete readonly = yes
>> >          writeable = yes
>> >          path = /mount/archive
>> >          only user = yes
>> >          force directory mode = 755
>> >          force group = wheel
>> >          force create mode = 755
>> >          force user = ryan
>> >          public = yes
>> >          allow hosts = 10.0.1.0/24
>> >
>> > [www]
>> >          writeable = yes
>> >          path = /usr/www
>> >          force directory mode = 755
>> >          force group = wheel
>> >          force create mode = 755
>> >          force user = ryan
>> >          valid users = ryan
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From admin at lctn.org  Mon Oct 26 11:41:02 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:41:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VPN  question
Message-ID: <4AE5D11E.8050103@lctn.org>

Originally, I was going to implement a vlan for this project, but there 
are devices in the path that I do not have access to.


I need to create a vpn between two boxes, preferably two mikro-tik 
boxes, using openvpn, but I am open to other solutions. The purpose of 
the vpn is to connect a video codec at a remote LAN to a port based vlan 
on our WAN. The remote end needs to be on the same public subnet as the 
other video codecs on our WAN.

The physical layout is as follows:

Codec in remote building of school district > 2 switches > cisco 3600 
router > fiber between buildings > cisco 2600 router > switch > WAN 
switch with port based vlan.

Logically, I need to accomplish the following:

Remote codec with public IP > WAN switch port on video vlan, with public 
IP on the same subnet as remote codec. Nating is fine, as long as the 
devices can ping each other without routing.

I need to verify this can be done, and be pointed in the right direction 
  of some good docs on how to accomplish this.


Raymond



From john.meier at gmail.com  Mon Oct 26 13:25:56 2009
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:25:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] runlevel 3; output of script to tty1
Message-ID: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -

Remastering knoppix livecd - adding some pkgs and removing some.  Want to
boot to runlevel 3 (which drops you to a root prompt on tty1), and have a
script automagically start running (as root) on said tty1.

Got everything figured out and working except for the automagically start
running a script part - can't even formulate a good google search string - I
must not know the right words to use!

Anyone point me in the right direction?

thanks

john
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From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Mon Oct 26 13:38:51 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:38:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] runlevel 3; output of script to tty1
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>

I believe your answer lies in .profile, .cshrc, or /etc/ttys.  That's  
where I would start.

Eric

On Oct 26, 2009, at 13:25:56, John Meier wrote:

> Hi -
>
> Remastering knoppix livecd - adding some pkgs and removing some.   
> Want to boot to runlevel 3 (which drops you to a root prompt on  
> tty1), and have a script automagically start running (as root) on  
> said tty1.
>
> Got everything figured out and working except for the automagically  
> start running a script part - can't even formulate a good google  
> search string - I must not know the right words to use!
>
> Anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> thanks
>
> john
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

---
Eric Crist






From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Mon Oct 26 14:40:47 2009
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:40:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com><8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>



I'd like to send commands from one terminal and have them run on
another.

I'm accessing my pc through ssh on /dev/pts/0 and /dev/pts/1.

I am able to write from one terminal to another, e.g., on pts 0
#echo 'Hi There'>/dev/pts/1
"Hi There" then appears on pts1.

I want to be able to do something like
echo 'progname'>/dev/pts/1
and have progname submitted through the shell on pts1.

Is there any way of doing this in Linux using shell commands?


From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Mon Oct 26 15:02:20 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:02:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com><8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <10F15FDD-819F-4FB0-B791-31C6A14B67D4@secure-computing.net>

'screen' or what you're really looking for is 'write'

Eric


On Oct 26, 2009, at 14:40:47, Isaac Atilano wrote:

>
>
> I'd like to send commands from one terminal and have them run on
> another.
>
> I'm accessing my pc through ssh on /dev/pts/0 and /dev/pts/1.
>
> I am able to write from one terminal to another, e.g., on pts 0
> #echo 'Hi There'>/dev/pts/1
> "Hi There" then appears on pts1.
>
> I want to be able to do something like
> echo 'progname'>/dev/pts/1
> and have progname submitted through the shell on pts1.
>
> Is there any way of doing this in Linux using shell commands?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

---
Eric Crist






From tclug at beitsahour.net  Mon Oct 26 15:03:27 2009
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:03:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net> 
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 14:40, Isaac Atilano <aristophrenic at warpmail.net> wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to send commands from one terminal and have them run on
> another.
>
> I'm accessing my pc through ssh on /dev/pts/0 and /dev/pts/1.
>
> I am able to write from one terminal to another, e.g., on pts 0
> #echo 'Hi There'>/dev/pts/1
> "Hi There" then appears on pts1.
>
> I want to be able to do something like
> echo 'progname'>/dev/pts/1
> and have progname submitted through the shell on pts1.
>
> Is there any way of doing this in Linux using shell commands?

maybe you want to use a fifo, man mkfifo

generally you create a fifo, write to it as if it is a file from one
program, and read from it from another program as if it is a file.
Actually it is a two-way communications channel, so you can pass
messages both ways.


From strayf at freeshell.org  Mon Oct 26 15:04:13 2009
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:04:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com><8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4AE600BD.10505@freeshell.org>

Isaac Atilano wrote:
> 
> I'd like to send commands from one terminal and have them run on
> another.
> 
> I'm accessing my pc through ssh on /dev/pts/0 and /dev/pts/1.
> 
> I am able to write from one terminal to another, e.g., on pts 0
> #echo 'Hi There'>/dev/pts/1
> "Hi There" then appears on pts1.
> 
> I want to be able to do something like
> echo 'progname'>/dev/pts/1
> and have progname submitted through the shell on pts1.
> 
> Is there any way of doing this in Linux using shell commands?
> 

Have you played with screen?


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Mon Oct 26 15:34:29 2009
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:34:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:03 -0500, "Munir Nassar" <tclug at beitsahour.net>
wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 14:40, Isaac Atilano <aristophrenic at warpmail.net>
> wrote:
> > I want to be able to do something like
> > echo 'progname'>/dev/pts/1
> > and have progname submitted through the shell on pts1.

> maybe you want to use a fifo, man mkfifo
>

I don't think write or mkfifo would work because they are equivalent to
what I'm already doing with echo 'progname'>/dev/pts/1.
I am able to send the text from one terminal to another but not to have
it run as a command.

It was recommended I use screen and, while I use screen regularly, I'm
not sure how to use it to tackle the problem at hand.

Maybe this example makes more sense.

From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 27 08:46:24 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:46:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
Message-ID: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>

I have an Outlook PST file that is corrupted. Scanpst does not work, and 
any attempt to copy the file to a new location gives IO errors. The file 
shows that it is the proper size, but I can't get past the error. Are 
there any open source tools available that might fix this?



Raymond


From nesius at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 09:06:36 2009
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:06:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc0910270706k1ef6cffcg3d4c62dc8a72ae14@mail.gmail.com>

To my knowledge (and without even doing a google search), not yet....

But soon, perhaps.

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/26/1936227/Microsoft-Opening-Outlooks-PST-Format?art_pos=10

-Rob


On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> I have an Outlook PST file that is corrupted. Scanpst does not work, and
> any attempt to copy the file to a new location gives IO errors. The file
> shows that it is the proper size, but I can't get past the error. Are
> there any open source tools available that might fix this?
>
>
>
> Raymond
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Tue Oct 27 09:13:59 2009
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:13:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org> 
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20091027141359.6896C1DF4B@skuld.wookimus.net>

> I have an Outlook PST file that is corrupted. Scanpst does not work, and 
> any attempt to copy the file to a new location gives IO errors. The file 
> shows that it is the proper size, but I can't get past the error. Are 
> there any open source tools available that might fix this?

Try:

readpst - Converts Outlook PST files to mbox and others

Might work for you.  The only caveatte is that it must be a version of
Outlook <= 2003, if I recall correctly.

Though, if the PST file is corrupt, you may not be able to read the
data anyway.  Worth a try, though.

Chad
-- 
Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net>           http://www.wookimus.net/
           assert(expired(knowledge)); /* core dump */


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Oct 27 09:22:18 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:22:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <20091027141359.6896C1DF4B@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
	<20091027141359.6896C1DF4B@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <4AE7021A.5000106@cwis.biz>

Slightly OT but...
I have lodged on a hard drive in a dark, dark corner some old Eudora 
mailbox files  (not the same mbox from my experiences) that I'd love to 
incorporate into my mail server as archived emails. I believe it was 
Eudora 5 for Mac that I was using back in 2003. Any recommendations?

--
Ryan

Chad Walstrom wrote:
>> I have an Outlook PST file that is corrupted. Scanpst does not work, and 
>> any attempt to copy the file to a new location gives IO errors. The file 
>> shows that it is the proper size, but I can't get past the error. Are 
>> there any open source tools available that might fix this?
>>     
>
> Try:
>
> readpst - Converts Outlook PST files to mbox and others
>
> Might work for you.  The only caveatte is that it must be a version of
> Outlook <= 2003, if I recall correctly.
>
> Though, if the PST file is corrupt, you may not be able to read the
> data anyway.  Worth a try, though.
>
> Chad
>   



From dniesen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 09:18:21 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:18:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I have an Outlook PST file that is corrupted. Scanpst does not work, and
> any attempt to copy the file to a new location gives IO errors. The file
> shows that it is the proper size, but I can't get past the error. Are
> there any open source tools available that might fix this?
>
>
>
> Raymond
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


Sorry if you've already gone through this but I've seen that PST files
are often the most used area of a file system/drive on a given
workstation.  Try a chkdsk on the drive connected to another machine.
Also for some reason Vista/Windows 7 chkdsk has been more successful
for us than the XP version.

Another thing that seems to work well, although we're not entirely
sure why, is copying the same file using a an IDE/SATA -> USB device.
Not sure if it's the slower speed or what but some problematic files
do better that way.

Failing any of that, you could run the drive through SpinRite which
will hammer every sector and hopefully mark that sector bad, recover
the data it needs and move it to another sector.  Back up anything
else you have on the drive as SpinRite whacks it pretty hard and if
it's close to failing already, it might be the last nail.



-- 
Donovan Niesen


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 27 09:49:17 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:49:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>

This is the third time that a pst file has become corrupted for the same 
network admin. They are one of a few users who have their files on the 
new 2TB Sans Digital box. This really bothers me, and makes me nervous 
to move other users over. My files are on the same box, but I have not 
had any problems. Not sure what is causing the problem.



> Sorry if you've already gone through this but I've seen that PST files
> are often the most used area of a file system/drive on a given
> workstation.  Try a chkdsk on the drive connected to another machine.
> Also for some reason Vista/Windows 7 chkdsk has been more successful
> for us than the XP version.
> 
> Another thing that seems to work well, although we're not entirely
> sure why, is copying the same file using a an IDE/SATA -> USB device.
> Not sure if it's the slower speed or what but some problematic files
> do better that way.
> 
> Failing any of that, you could run the drive through SpinRite which
> will hammer every sector and hopefully mark that sector bad, recover
> the data it needs and move it to another sector.  Back up anything
> else you have on the drive as SpinRite whacks it pretty hard and if
> it's close to failing already, it might be the last nail.
> 
> 
> 


From nesius at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 09:49:51 2009
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:49:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc0910270749q50d68315pe20dc3952c065d27@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Isaac Atilano
<aristophrenic at warpmail.net>wrote:

>
>
> Maybe this example makes more sense.
> From a remote ssh session, I want to run a command (startx) on virtual
> console 1 (/dev/tty1) of the ssh server so that the output of startx and
> X gets written to virtual console 1 and I can then exit out of the shell
> that issued the command.
>
>
I'm not sure it's possible for you to do what you're wanting to do, in part
because that would potentially be a huge security hole.  The ability to emit
commands to another tty and the them run using someone else's credentials -
bad.  Or is that what you're trying to accomplish indirectly?  If so - you
should use 'sudo' (or su) to run commands under other credentials, and if
you REALLY want your output to land on that console, then redirect stdout.

-Rob
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From chewie at wookimus.net  Tue Oct 27 10:03:24 2009
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:03:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org> 
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <14541.1256655804@skuld.wookimus.net>

Historically, Outlook had problems with files larger than 2GB in size.
Exceeding that limit brought pain and anguish to the end-user.  I don't
recall if they ever, effectively fixed that problem.  In any case,
advocate multiple PST boxes or archives.  Also, advocate frequent
backups of this data -- basically don't trust Outlook


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 27 10:10:25 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:10:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <14541.1256655804@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>
	<14541.1256655804@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <4AE70D61.10508@lctn.org>

This particular file is 473 Mb

Chad Walstrom wrote:
> Historically, Outlook had problems with files larger than 2GB in size.
> Exceeding that limit brought pain and anguish to the end-user.  I don't
> recall if they ever, effectively fixed that problem.  In any case,
> advocate multiple PST boxes or archives.  Also, advocate frequent
> backups of this data -- basically don't trust Outlook
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Tue Oct 27 10:16:36 2009
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:16:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc0910270749q50d68315pe20dc3952c065d27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<cac10ddc0910270749q50d68315pe20dc3952c065d27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6943D08D-79A0-481C-A5C9-5BB38D0EEB58@secure-computing.net>

On Oct 27, 2009, at 09:49:51, Robert Nesius wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Isaac Atilano <aristophrenic at warpmail.net 
> > wrote:
>
>
> Maybe this example makes more sense.
> From a remote ssh session, I want to run a command (startx) on virtual
> console 1 (/dev/tty1) of the ssh server so that the output of startx  
> and
> X gets written to virtual console 1 and I can then exit out of the  
> shell
> that issued the command.
>
>
> I'm not sure it's possible for you to do what you're wanting to do,  
> in part because that would potentially be a huge security hole.  The  
> ability to emit commands to another tty and the them run using  
> someone else's credentials - bad.  Or is that what you're trying to  
> accomplish indirectly?  If so - you should use 'sudo' (or su) to run  
> commands under other credentials, and if you REALLY want your output  
> to land on that console, then redirect stdout.

The 'watch' command allows you to view another tty as well as write to  
that tty.  I erred earlier recommending the 'write' command.
---
Eric Crist






From dniesen at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 10:11:41 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:11:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <14541.1256655804@skuld.wookimus.net>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org> <14541.1256655804@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70910270811w7f42c3f1n99a8ef43ca55d441@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Chad Walstrom <chewie at wookimus.net> wrote:
> Historically, Outlook had problems with files larger than 2GB in size.
> Exceeding that limit brought pain and anguish to the end-user. ?I don't
> recall if they ever, effectively fixed that problem. ?In any case,
> advocate multiple PST boxes or archives. ?Also, advocate frequent
> backups of this data -- basically don't trust Outlook
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

A magic 8 ball often sums this up nicely "Outlook not so good".

-- 
Donovan Niesen


From tclugl at whitleymott.net  Tue Oct 27 10:34:30 2009
From: tclugl at whitleymott.net (greg wm)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:34:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]  Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <429c5ec20910270833l43a7e04cl69111037c0c8545d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>
	<429c5ec20910270833l43a7e04cl69111037c0c8545d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <429c5ec20910270834i52a29a90k212c32745fe60d5d@mail.gmail.com>

it's been a couple years since, but i remember well trying to migrate file
service from a w2k server to samba, and the thorny problems that arose, .pst
file corruption among them.  things got happier when i just put the .pst
files back on the w2k server.  i tried keeping much of the rest of file
service on samba, and had fewer problems, consistent with .pst files getting
the heaviest hammering.  it seemed that w2k clients would easily give up on
samba and fail to complete writes occasionally.  and it seemed the samba
server would then become inaccessible to that particular w2k client for a
period of time.  never any such trouble with the w2k server.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> This is the third time that a pst file has become corrupted for the same
> network admin. They are one of a few users who have their files on the
> new 2TB Sans Digital box. This really bothers me, and makes me nervous
> to move other users over. My files are on the same box, but I have not
> had any problems. Not sure what is causing the problem.
>
> > Sorry if you've already gone through this but I've seen that PST files
> > are often the most used area of a file system/drive on a given
> > workstation.  Try a chkdsk on the drive connected to another machine.
> > Also for some reason Vista/Windows 7 chkdsk has been more successful
> > for us than the XP version.
> >
> > Another thing that seems to work well, although we're not entirely
> > sure why, is copying the same file using a an IDE/SATA -> USB device.
> > Not sure if it's the slower speed or what but some problematic files
> > do better that way.
> >
> > Failing any of that, you could run the drive through SpinRite which
> > will hammer every sector and hopefully mark that sector bad, recover
> > the data it needs and move it to another sector.  Back up anything
> > else you have on the drive as SpinRite whacks it pretty hard and if
> > it's close to failing already, it might be the last nail.
>
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From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 27 10:51:01 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:51:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <429c5ec20910270834i52a29a90k212c32745fe60d5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>	<429c5ec20910270833l43a7e04cl69111037c0c8545d@mail.gmail.com>
	<429c5ec20910270834i52a29a90k212c32745fe60d5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE716E5.3070704@lctn.org>


Funny.... That is exactly what I just said in an email I sent to Sans 
Digital :)


greg wm wrote:
> it's been a couple years since, but i remember well trying to migrate 
> file service from a w2k server to samba, and the thorny problems that 
> arose, .pst file corruption among them.  things got happier when i just 
> put the .pst files back on the w2k server.  i tried keeping much of the 
> rest of file service on samba, and had fewer problems, consistent with 
> .pst files getting the heaviest hammering.  it seemed that w2k clients 
> would easily give up on samba and fail to complete writes occasionally.  
> and it seemed the samba server would then become inaccessible to that 
> particular w2k client for a period of time.  never any such trouble with 
> the w2k server.


From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Tue Oct 27 11:26:29 2009
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:26:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc0910270749q50d68315pe20dc3952c065d27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<cac10ddc0910270749q50d68315pe20dc3952c065d27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1256660789.23866.1342222647@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Isaac Atilano
<aristophrenic at warpmail.net>wrote:
> From a remote ssh session, I want to run a command (startx) on virtual
> console 1 (/dev/tty1) of the ssh server so that the output of startx and
> X gets written to virtual console 1 and I can then exit out of the shell
> that issued the command.

After reading up some more on this, it seems that what I want to do
isn't possible because you need to set up some sort of IPC mechanism
between the two processes that would allow you to do this. Additionally,
the processes must then be designed to use this ICP.

The tty device files do not work for this because tty is designed so
that what is read on the tty device's STDIN is routed to STDOUT. It is
not routed to the STDIN of the shell or getty process accessing that
terminal.

The question I then asked was "Can I send data directly to the shell's
STDIN?"
The answer, I found was that through the shell, you cannot send data to
an arbitrary process's STDIN. The IPC would have to be defined (through
pipes, redirects, etc.) prior to process spawning.





From florin at iucha.net  Tue Oct 27 11:44:00 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:44:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256660789.23866.1342222647@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<cac10ddc0910270749q50d68315pe20dc3952c065d27@mail.gmail.com>
	<1256660789.23866.1342222647@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20091027164400.GC27599@iris.iucha.org>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:26:29AM -0500, Isaac Atilano wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Isaac Atilano
> <aristophrenic at warpmail.net>wrote:
> > From a remote ssh session, I want to run a command (startx) on virtual
> > console 1 (/dev/tty1) of the ssh server so that the output of startx and
> > X gets written to virtual console 1 and I can then exit out of the shell
> > that issued the command.
> 
> After reading up some more on this, it seems that what I want to do
> isn't possible because you need to set up some sort of IPC mechanism
> between the two processes that would allow you to do this. Additionally,
> the processes must then be designed to use this ICP.
> 
> The tty device files do not work for this because tty is designed so
> that what is read on the tty device's STDIN is routed to STDOUT. It is
> not routed to the STDIN of the shell or getty process accessing that
> terminal.
> 
> The question I then asked was "Can I send data directly to the shell's
> STDIN?"
> The answer, I found was that through the shell, you cannot send data to
> an arbitrary process's STDIN. The IPC would have to be defined (through
> pipes, redirects, etc.) prior to process spawning.

The other shell (connected to the other terminal) is getting its input
from the kernel, so conceivably one could rig the input system into
pushing whatever into the input buffer of an arbitrary terminal.  Not
trivial, not POSIX standard (the details for the solution for Solaris
would be different), but not impossible, either.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Tue Oct 27 12:05:11 2009
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:05:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net> 
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480910271005t61dbfa37peb946d2ba59a49c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 15:34, Isaac Atilano <aristophrenic at warpmail.net> wrote:
> Maybe this example makes more sense.
> From a remote ssh session, I want to run a command (startx) on virtual
> console 1 (/dev/tty1) of the ssh server so that the output of startx and
> X gets written to virtual console 1 and I can then exit out of the shell
> that issued the command.

Isaac, what are you _really_ trying to accomplish here? Do you simply
want to capture and save the output of the startx command? Do you want
to be able to do the startx and exit the remote shell and not kill the
startx?

It seems your asking questions about a particular solution, but it
might not be the only (or the right) solution for your real problem.
That may help the group better understand ways to offer advice.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman
612.234.7778
Sent from Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States


From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 11:55:13 2009
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:55:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <4AE716E5.3070704@lctn.org>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>
	<429c5ec20910270833l43a7e04cl69111037c0c8545d@mail.gmail.com>
	<429c5ec20910270834i52a29a90k212c32745fe60d5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE716E5.3070704@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <cac45c240910270955t2114098cm2b024c8b5d165c87@mail.gmail.com>

Officially Microsoft doesn't support PST files via a network share:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/297019/

Samba's documentation suggests turning off oplocks on PST files:
http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-Guide/happy.html#id2582162

An alternative to keeping the PST files on the network share would be
to keep the PST files on the client drive and back it up to the
network using Outlook Personal Folders Backup Tool:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA010875321033.aspx

Outlook Personal Folders Backup Tool requires some additional user
training and user patience when dealing with multiple gigs of PST
files, so it only works so well. I'm planning on replacing it with
Backup Exec Desktop and Laptop Option to suck user data off user's
laptops and into our backup system. We're using Windows servers for
file sharing and we haven't run issues having the desktops keep their
PST files on the network for the past 6 years or so.

If you want to use backup software to deal with the PSTs, keep in mind
that you first need to deal with the issue of the PST file being in
use as long as Outlook is open. You could force log-off at night using
a Group Policy (Local or in Active Directory) or a scheduled task that
calls shutdown.exe with the appropriate switches, or you could go with
a backup product that is able to deal with open files.

As far as I know, Backula, BackupPC, Amanda, and other OSS backup
solutions are not able to deal with open files on Windows systems.
Most commercial backup products are able to deal with open files (add
on license may be required) on Windows clients/servers via the Shadow
Copy/Volume Snap Shot functionality built into the operating system.

If you are looking for a commercial product for the purpose of sucking
PSTs off of desktops and laptops, I'd look at EMC Retrospect first.

From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Tue Oct 27 12:26:45 2009
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:26:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480910271005t61dbfa37peb946d2ba59a49c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net>
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<f0e11c480910271005t61dbfa37peb946d2ba59a49c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1256664405.17471.1342239951@webmail.messagingengine.com>



On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:05 -0500, "Brian D. Ropers-Huilman"
<brian at ropers-huilman.net> wrote:

> It seems your asking questions about a particular solution, but it
> might not be the only (or the right) solution for your real problem.
> That may help the group better understand ways to offer advice.

Hi Brian. This is more of an exercise in getting familiar with how IPC
works between shells and tty's and also playing with the device files
for the sake of my curiosity.
The specific problem of starting X, exiting the shell and capturing
output can be solved using nohup and output redirect without accessing
the tty's but that wouldn't really teach me anything new.


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 27 12:38:53 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:38:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <cac45c240910270955t2114098cm2b024c8b5d165c87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>	<429c5ec20910270833l43a7e04cl69111037c0c8545d@mail.gmail.com>	<429c5ec20910270834i52a29a90k212c32745fe60d5d@mail.gmail.com>	<4AE716E5.3070704@lctn.org>
	<cac45c240910270955t2114098cm2b024c8b5d165c87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AE7302D.6050306@lctn.org>

We run a Terminal Server farm, so local pst files are not an option. We 
have never had this occur until moving to the Sans box. I will look into 
  your recommended settings.




Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote:
> Officially Microsoft doesn't support PST files via a network share:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/297019/
> 
> Samba's documentation suggests turning off oplocks on PST files:
> http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-Guide/happy.html#id2582162
> 
> An alternative to keeping the PST files on the network share would be
> to keep the PST files on the client drive and back it up to the
> network using Outlook Personal Folders Backup Tool:
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA010875321033.aspx
> 
> Outlook Personal Folders Backup Tool requires some additional user
> training and user patience when dealing with multiple gigs of PST
> files, so it only works so well. I'm planning on replacing it with
> Backup Exec Desktop and Laptop Option to suck user data off user's
> laptops and into our backup system. We're using Windows servers for
> file sharing and we haven't run issues having the desktops keep their
> PST files on the network for the past 6 years or so.
> 
> If you want to use backup software to deal with the PSTs, keep in mind
> that you first need to deal with the issue of the PST file being in
> use as long as Outlook is open. You could force log-off at night using
> a Group Policy (Local or in Active Directory) or a scheduled task that
> calls shutdown.exe with the appropriate switches, or you could go with
> a backup product that is able to deal with open files.
> 
> As far as I know, Backula, BackupPC, Amanda, and other OSS backup
> solutions are not able to deal with open files on Windows systems.
> Most commercial backup products are able to deal with open files (add
> on license may be required) on Windows clients/servers via the Shadow
> Copy/Volume Snap Shot functionality built into the operating system.
> 
> If you are looking for a commercial product for the purpose of sucking
> PSTs off of desktops and laptops, I'd look at EMC Retrospect first.
> From memory it was much cheaper than Backup Exec's Desktop and Laptop
> offering, just make sure you get the Open File add-on for the backup
> server.
> 


From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Tue Oct 27 12:47:43 2009
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:47:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sending commands to terminal
In-Reply-To: <1256664405.17471.1342239951@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <65293fcc0910261125k5f457d4fqc3559346f21593ce@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8B97A342-3CE6-44BB-B224-D7BE5D8A8306@secure-computing.net> 
	<1256584908.16170.1342063001@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<1256586047.19943.1342067523@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<fa17c9630910261303u77da0e2eidbdc35dea8b9c7cd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1256589269.31496.1342074189@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<f0e11c480910271005t61dbfa37peb946d2ba59a49c0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1256664405.17471.1342239951@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480910271047m29e41954t7389c89aa2d3d9e4@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 12:26, Isaac Atilano <aristophrenic at warpmail.net> wrote:
> works between shells and tty's and also playing with the device files
> for the sake of my curiosity.
> The specific problem of starting X, exiting the shell and capturing
> output can be solved using nohup and output redirect without accessing
> the tty's but that wouldn't really teach me anything new.

O.K., makes sense.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman
612.234.7778
Sent from Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Oct 27 12:54:07 2009
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:54:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VPN  question
In-Reply-To: <BLU133-W2839DFFBBF65696ECADC2AAAB90@phx.gbl>
References: <4AE5D11E.8050103@lctn.org>
	<BLU133-W2839DFFBBF65696ECADC2AAAB90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4AE733BF.3040306@lctn.org>

I discovered yesterday that an eoip tunnel via a vpn should work. I had 
a friend who is on this list reply to me today, off-list(coward), 
confirming eoip will work in my scenario.




G J wrote:
> Ray, I don't know if no one is responding to your message or if I missed 
> some. I used to work at a college with a similar situation with codecs, 
> I'm guessing by your description that this is not a mobile codec (on a 
> cart). I don't know if this would be possible but you might try and get 
> a dedicated fiber run for the codec, or at least put a fiber on your wan 
> vlan. It sounds like your going to be investing in some hardware no 
> matter how you do it. it would be fairly easy to go with the routers, 
> but the more I think about it its 6 of one and half a dozen of the 
> other. If you did not go with the router setup you could reduce the 
> amount of hops as well I would think. My 2 cents.
> 
> Jesse
> 
>  > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:41:02 -0500
>  > From: admin at lctn.org
>  > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>  > Subject: [tclug-list] VPN question
>  >
>  > Originally, I was going to implement a vlan for this project, but there
>  > are devices in the path that I do not have access to.
>  >
>  >
>  > I need to create a vpn between two boxes, preferably two mikro-tik
>  > boxes, using openvpn, but I am open to other solutions. The purpose of
>  > the vpn is to connect a video codec at a remote LAN to a port based vlan
>  > on our WAN. The remote end needs to be on the same public subnet as the
>  > other video codecs on our WAN.
>  >
>  > The physical layout is as follows:
>  >
>  > Codec in remote building of school district > 2 switches > cisco 3600
>  > router > fiber between buildings > cisco 2600 router > switch > WAN
>  > switch with port based vlan.
>  >
>  > Logically, I need to accomplish the following:
>  >
>  > Remote codec with public IP > WAN switch port on video vlan, with public
>  > IP on the same subnet as remote codec. Nating is fine, as long as the
>  > devices can ping each other without routing.
>  >
>  > I need to verify this can be done, and be pointed in the right direction
>  > of some good docs on how to accomplish this.
>  >
>  >
>  > Raymond
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>  > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>  > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Windows 7: Simplify your PC. Learn more. 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen1:102009>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.


From chewie at wookimus.net  Tue Oct 27 14:05:08 2009
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:05:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Repairing files
In-Reply-To: <cac45c240910270955t2114098cm2b024c8b5d165c87@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <4AE6F9B0.2060304@lctn.org>
	<47f4d5e70910270718l2a2b519wc0543a2d018bd970@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE7086D.3050102@lctn.org>
	<429c5ec20910270833l43a7e04cl69111037c0c8545d@mail.gmail.com>
	<429c5ec20910270834i52a29a90k212c32745fe60d5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AE716E5.3070704@lctn.org>
	<cac45c240910270955t2114098cm2b024c8b5d165c87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20626.1256670308@skuld.wookimus.net>

Bacula actually does use VSS to back up open files.  This doesn't mean
that the open file is in a clean state, but you'll get the
information. :)


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Oct 27 15:57:32 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:57:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] remote mouse/keyboard (e.g., bluetooth)
In-Reply-To: <1256071593.24005.11.camel@robert>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910201515430.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1256071593.24005.11.camel@robert>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910211200491.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I just discovered that I hadn't sent the message below, so here it is now. 
Thanks to everyone for the tips.  --Mike


On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Robert wrote:

> I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but you can get 
> an FM transmitter for about $20 which will transmit the output of your 
> computer audio card to an FM receiver. That assumes that your stereo has 
> an FM tuner, and that that is the direction you want to go.
>
> Bluetooth is not very good for anything better than voice.


Right, but I'm going to connect the sound card of the computer to the 
stereo input using a wire, so that's not what my message was about.  I was 
asking about how to control the computer using a wireless keyboard/mouse.

One good idea is that I should use a keyboard with a mousepad -- one less 
device and easier to deal with when sitting on a couch.  Great idea.

Best,
Mike


From adam.morris at redstargaming.net  Wed Oct 21 22:04:14 2009
From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:04:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
Message-ID: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>

Hello to the TCLUG mailing list,

I moved to the area a few months ago and I'd like to start getting
active in the local Linux community.  It looks like this mailing list is
pretty active, but I can't tell if you meet anymore.

If you don't, could someone point me in the direction of a group that
does meet frequently?

Thanks in advance!

-Adam Morris

--------------------
This email written using Mutt and ViM!
http://www.vim.org/
http://www.mutt.org/


From tclug-announce-bounces at mn-linux.org  Tue Oct 27 17:46:34 2009
From: tclug-announce-bounces at mn-linux.org (tclug-announce-bounces at mn-linux.org)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:46:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Forward of moderated message
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1256683594.8075.tclug-announce@mn-linux.org>

An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Evan Bibbee <ebibbee at gmail.com>
Subject: FYI - Announcement of Intent to form a new LUG (Mankato, MN Area)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:32:44 -0500
Size: 2689
Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20091027/1bb0dd8c/attachment.eml 

From pcutler at gnome.org  Tue Oct 27 18:09:53 2009
From: pcutler at gnome.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:09:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>
References: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>
Message-ID: <39428b2a0910271609p630d2319t9c165ba63aa4c03f@mail.gmail.com>

Adam, welcome to the Twin Cities!

You're right, the formal TCLUG has a very active mailing list, but meetings
are rare these days.

Penguins Unbound (http://www.penguinsunbound.org/) meets in St. Paul
monthly, and Brian is good about sending out meeting reminders to this
list.  They're having an installfest this coming Saturday.

Paul

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Adam Morris <adam.morris at redstargaming.net
> wrote:

> Hello to the TCLUG mailing list,
>
> I moved to the area a few months ago and I'd like to start getting
> active in the local Linux community.  It looks like this mailing list is
> pretty active, but I can't tell if you meet anymore.
>
> If you don't, could someone point me in the direction of a group that
> does meet frequently?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -Adam Morris
>
> --------------------
> This email written using Mutt and ViM!
> http://www.vim.org/
> http://www.mutt.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Tue Oct 27 21:03:27 2009
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:03:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4679.1256684200.2412.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.4679.1256684200.2412.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4AE7A66F.4000101@twp-llc.com>

Adam Morris wrote:
> From: Adam Morris <adam.morris at redstargaming.net>
>
> Hello to the TCLUG mailing list,
>
> I moved to the area a few months ago and I'd like to start getting
> active in the local Linux community.  It looks like this mailing list is
> pretty active, but I can't tell if you meet anymore.
>   
We don't meet frequently, but all it takes is someone to step up and 
make a suggestion for a get together. Ask for help regarding locations 
and topics (anything from mini- to full-sized install fests, 
presentations, or just getting together to talk shop are fair game) and 
running the thing and you (not just you - anyone) will get all the help 
you need, and people will show up.

When's our next meeting? :)

Chris



From rclark at lakesplus.com  Wed Oct 28 07:21:54 2009
From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:21:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <39428b2a0910271609p630d2319t9c165ba63aa4c03f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>
	<39428b2a0910271609p630d2319t9c165ba63aa4c03f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <218F6E7E02E8428C955CD62F94464211@dualasus>

Has anyone thought of encouraging Penguins Unbound members to subscribe to
the TCLUG mailing list?  A QUICK look at their webpage does not seem to
indicate a list-serv, etc. . so a possible way to build a bit of synergy.

 

Just a thought . 

 

Randy

 

  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Paul Cutler
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:10 PM
To: Adam Morris
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG

 

Adam, welcome to the Twin Cities!

You're right, the formal TCLUG has a very active mailing list, but meetings
are rare these days.

Penguins Unbound (http://www.penguinsunbound.org/) meets in St. Paul
monthly, and Brian is good about sending out meeting reminders to this list.
They're having an installfest this coming Saturday.

Paul

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Adam Morris
<adam.morris at redstargaming.net> wrote:

Hello to the TCLUG mailing list,

I moved to the area a few months ago and I'd like to start getting
active in the local Linux community.  It looks like this mailing list is
pretty active, but I can't tell if you meet anymore.

If you don't, could someone point me in the direction of a group that
does meet frequently?

Thanks in advance!

-Adam Morris

--------------------
This email written using Mutt and ViM!
http://www.vim.org/
http://www.mutt.org/

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

 

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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Oct 28 08:25:02 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:25:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <218F6E7E02E8428C955CD62F94464211@dualasus>
References: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>
	<39428b2a0910271609p630d2319t9c165ba63aa4c03f@mail.gmail.com>
	<218F6E7E02E8428C955CD62F94464211@dualasus>
Message-ID: <20091028132502.GE27599@iris.iucha.org>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 07:21:54AM -0500, Randy Clarksean wrote:
> Has anyone thought of encouraging Penguins Unbound members to subscribe to
> the TCLUG mailing list?  A QUICK look at their webpage does not seem to
> indicate a list-serv, etc. . so a possible way to build a bit of synergy.

They know this list exists (they announce their monthly meetings here
as well) and nobody stopped anybody from posting reasonably on-topic
messages here or from going to their meetings "there".

It's not exactly "encouraging", but I'm not sure they need that...

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 28 09:14:25 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:14:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <218F6E7E02E8428C955CD62F94464211@dualasus>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEINCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

??  I think most or all do subscribe.  I do, and others I know do.

Chuck
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Randy Clarksean
  Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:22 AM
  To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG


  Has anyone thought of encouraging Penguins Unbound members to subscribe to the TCLUG mailing list?  A QUICK look at their webpage
does not seem to indicate a list-serv, etc. . so a possible way to build a bit of synergy.



  Just a thought .



  Randy



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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Wed Oct 28 11:48:05 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:48:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <20091028132502.GE27599@iris.iucha.org>
References: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>	<39428b2a0910271609p630d2319t9c165ba63aa4c03f@mail.gmail.com>	<218F6E7E02E8428C955CD62F94464211@dualasus>
	<20091028132502.GE27599@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4AE875C5.3090106@Goecke-Dolan.com>


Hi I am Brian Dolan-Goecke, I run the Penguins Unboud Meetings.

Penguins Unbound does not have a mailing list, because the TCLUG is so 
active.  I encurage (thought this was on the websites) people to 
subscribe to the TCLUG mailing lists. And I post to the TCLUG.

Thanks, hope to see you at a meeting.

==>brian.

Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 07:21:54AM -0500, Randy Clarksean wrote:
>> Has anyone thought of encouraging Penguins Unbound members to subscribe to
>> the TCLUG mailing list?  A QUICK look at their webpage does not seem to
>> indicate a list-serv, etc. . so a possible way to build a bit of synergy.
> 
> They know this list exists (they announce their monthly meetings here
> as well) and nobody stopped anybody from posting reasonably on-topic
> messages here or from going to their meetings "there".
> 
> It's not exactly "encouraging", but I'm not sure they need that...
> 
> Cheers,
> florin
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From adam.morris at redstargaming.net  Wed Oct 28 13:46:18 2009
From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:46:18 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <4AE875C5.3090106@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>
	<39428b2a0910271609p630d2319t9c165ba63aa4c03f@mail.gmail.com>
	<218F6E7E02E8428C955CD62F94464211@dualasus>
	<20091028132502.GE27599@iris.iucha.org>
	<4AE875C5.3090106@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <20091028184616.GA2832@weegee.ath.cx>

Thanks all, I'm going to try to go to the Ubuntu install fest that
Penguins Unbound is having this weekend.  Hope to meet you all there.

-Adam

P.S. Brian, I sent you an email about the installfest this weekend
before I saw these replies.  Sorry to spam your inbox. ;)

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:48:05AM -0500, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:
> 
> Hi I am Brian Dolan-Goecke, I run the Penguins Unboud Meetings.
> 
> Penguins Unbound does not have a mailing list, because the TCLUG is so 
> active.  I encurage (thought this was on the websites) people to 
> subscribe to the TCLUG mailing lists. And I post to the TCLUG.
> 
> Thanks, hope to see you at a meeting.
> 
> ==>brian.
> 
> Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 07:21:54AM -0500, Randy Clarksean wrote:
> >> Has anyone thought of encouraging Penguins Unbound members to subscribe to
> >> the TCLUG mailing list?  A QUICK look at their webpage does not seem to
> >> indicate a list-serv, etc. . so a possible way to build a bit of synergy.
> > 
> > They know this list exists (they announce their monthly meetings here
> > as well) and nobody stopped anybody from posting reasonably on-topic
> > messages here or from going to their meetings "there".
> > 
> > It's not exactly "encouraging", but I'm not sure they need that...
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > florin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 28 13:49:23 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:49:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <4AE875C5.3090106@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEIPCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

I quit attending TCLUG meetings at U of MN.  Previously, they were usually not there, and meetings and installfests seemed
well-attended when not there.  Having meetings at U of MN is unattractive for various reasons, parking being a very common one, and
becoming a student group is another.  I like the TIES venue and activities.

TCLUG has no definition or existence except as this list for linux interests.  It's not an organized entity with any official form
of registry, so any linux-related meetings seem to be on-topic.  List folk previously decided for TCLUG not to be an organized or
registered entity.


Chuck



>
> Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 07:21:54AM -0500, Randy Clarksean wrote:
> >> Has anyone thought of encouraging Penguins Unbound members to subscribe to
> >> the TCLUG mailing list?  A QUICK look at their webpage does not seem to
> >> indicate a list-serv, etc. . so a possible way to build a bit of synergy.
> >
> > They know this list exists (they announce their monthly meetings here
> > as well) and nobody stopped anybody from posting reasonably on-topic
> > messages here or from going to their meetings "there".
> >
> > It's not exactly "encouraging", but I'm not sure they need that...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > florin
>



From rclark at lakesplus.com  Wed Oct 28 16:56:19 2009
From: rclark at lakesplus.com (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:56:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Java Errors - Mozilla or Opera
Message-ID: <42456700478D46C4B19A71A082092490@dualasus>

Ok . I have been trying to get Java to work within the browsers on my Centos
5.3 box.  I downloaded the latest Java . installed it as instructed online .
created the link that needs to exist .and . nothing . still an error . 

 

INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End:  Could not get the plugin manager

 

Thoughts?

 

So . I downloaded Opera . installed it and Java worked fine within that .
but now it no longer works.  The error message I now get is shown below.

 

opera: libjava.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

 

The whole installation of Java is a frustrating and time consuming issue .
any suggestions as to why it does not work any longer?  Thanks in advance.

 

Randy Clarksean

 

 

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 17:04:45 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:04:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <20091028184616.GA2832@weegee.ath.cx>
References: <20091022030413.GA6724@vigilance>
	<39428b2a0910271609p630d2319t9c165ba63aa4c03f@mail.gmail.com>
	<218F6E7E02E8428C955CD62F94464211@dualasus>
	<20091028132502.GE27599@iris.iucha.org>
	<4AE875C5.3090106@Goecke-Dolan.com>
	<20091028184616.GA2832@weegee.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910281700260.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Adam Morris wrote:

> Thanks all, I'm going to try to go to the Ubuntu install fest that 
> Penguins Unbound is having this weekend.  Hope to meet you all there.


I didn't know those guys until I started going to their installfests. 
They are really great.  Everyone is very friendly and helpful.  Brian is 
especially hard-working -- running from one person to another giving 
pointers.  It's a long hard day for him.  He and the other guys always 
solved my problems and made things work (or at least got me to where I 
could do it).  I don't know what would have happened without their help 
and I'm very grateful for it.  Now I'm running Ubuntu on a bunch of 
machines and it is truly spectacular.

Mike


From tompoe at fngi.net  Wed Oct 28 17:42:15 2009
From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:42:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] LiVES users on list?
Message-ID: <4AE8C8C7.1050302@fngi.net>

Are there any LiVES users in TCLUG?
Tom


From chewie at wookimus.net  Thu Oct 29 09:19:23 2009
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:19:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEIPCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net> 
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEIPCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20837.1256825963@skuld.wookimus.net>

Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I quit attending TCLUG meetings at U of MN.  Previously, they were
> usually not there, and meetings and installfests seemed well-attended
> when not there.  Having meetings at U of MN is unattractive for
> various reasons, parking being a very common one, and becoming a
> student group is another.  I like the TIES venue and activities.

Historically, the TCLUG meetings were held at the U of MN because the
leadership at the time were largley U of MN employees.  With the right
connections they were able to secure a lecture hall for free,
consistently.  I don't want to see the dead horse raised from the grave,
especially this weekend.  In any case, I was very thankful to the TCLUG
leadership for securing this venue.  I'm sure the new TCLUG leadership
will be able to find something more pallatable for the current
membership.

> TCLUG has no definition or existence except as this list for linux
> interests.  It's not an organized entity with any official form of
> registry, so any linux-related meetings seem to be on-topic.  List
> folk previously decided for TCLUG not to be an organized or registered
> entity.

Very true.  A loose band of like-interested folks.  TCLUG leadership
tends to be the action takers and organizers.  "Official" meetings are
simply those that someone has taken the time to plan and execute.

Chad


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 29 09:39:16 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:39:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <20837.1256825963@skuld.wookimus.net>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: chewie at skuld.wookimus.net [mailto:chewie at skuld.wookimus.net]On
> Behalf Of Chad Walstrom
>
> Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I quit attending TCLUG meetings at U of MN.  Previously, they were
> > usually not there, and meetings and installfests seemed well-attended
> > when not there.  Having meetings at U of MN is unattractive for
> > various reasons, parking being a very common one, and becoming a
> > student group is another.  I like the TIES venue and activities.
>
> Historically, the TCLUG meetings were held at the U of MN because the
> leadership at the time were largley U of MN employees.  With the right
> connections they were able to secure a lecture hall for free,
> consistently.  I don't want to see the dead horse raised from the grave,
> especially this weekend.  In any case, I was very thankful to the TCLUG
> leadership for securing this venue.  I'm sure the new TCLUG leadership
> will be able to find something more pallatable for the current
> membership.

Maybe it was just installfests that also had a talk, but many "official TCLUG events" were not held at U of MN, and seemed frequent,
tho not every month.  Meetings at UMN went OK until the time we were tossed out of a planned and announced space because some prof
"pulled rank" for his event.  Just a coincidence, but it showed we had no place or voice at UMN, and I felt things went downhill
fast from there.

Just clarifying my remarks and not trying to make a big issue of it.


>
> > TCLUG has no definition or existence except as this list for linux
> > interests.  It's not an organized entity with any official form of
> > registry, so any linux-related meetings seem to be on-topic.  List
> > folk previously decided for TCLUG not to be an organized or registered
> > entity.
>
> Very true.  A loose band of like-interested folks.  TCLUG leadership
> tends to be the action takers and organizers.  "Official" meetings are
> simply those that someone has taken the time to plan and execute.
>
> Chad

I thought TCLUG action (list and installfests especially) was mainly by Real Time folk originally.


Chuck



From tclug at beitsahour.net  Thu Oct 29 09:53:13 2009
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:53:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <20837.1256825963@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fa17c9630910290753t3e97837ne327fd47478ecb87@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 09:39, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Maybe it was just installfests that also had a talk, but many "official TCLUG events" were not held at U of MN, and seemed frequent,
> tho not every month. ?Meetings at UMN went OK until the time we were tossed out of a planned and announced space because some prof
> "pulled rank" for his event. ?Just a coincidence, but it showed we had no place or voice at UMN, and I felt things went downhill
> fast from there.

The reason that the TCLUG no longer has a standing reservation at the
U of M is because Ben Kochie who had the standing reservation left to
work at greener pastures. The only time we did get bumped is because
the reservation is only for 1 calendar year and (IIRC) he forgot to
renew.

> Just clarifying my remarks and not trying to make a big issue of it.

just making sure the facts are right to the best of my recollection.

> I thought TCLUG action (list and installfests especially) was mainly by Real Time folk originally.

Some were, Real-Time is also our patron providing webspace and mailing lists.


From chrome at real-time.com  Thu Oct 29 10:04:32 2009
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:04:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>;
	from cncole@earthlink.net on Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 09:39:16AM -0500
References: <20837.1256825963@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20091029100432.C7438@real-time.com>

On 10/29 09:39 , Chuck Cole wrote:
> I thought TCLUG action (list and installfests especially) was mainly by Real Time folk originally.

That was originally. We've been pretty hands-off it recently.
I dropped off the mailing list for some years myself. Only reason I came
back was to let y'all know that the website broke when we decommissioned an
ancient database server. 

The state of the 'meetings' page (last update 2003) kind of points out the
status of the LUG. 

Really, there's not nearly as much need for the LUG as there used to be.
Linux is much easier to install, communication between everyone is better,
and Linux has gotten far enough into the mainstream that there's not as much
need for advocacy as there used to be. Linux didn't destroy all opponents in
the OS wars; but it did force the other vendors (M$ and Apple) to get a lot
better. In the end, that's a pretty good result. Once again, the
(relatively) free market helps consumers win in the end. :)

So the LUG is to a greater percentage what it always had been... a social
club for geeks. :)

Too bad I'm 1000+ miles away now and can't be involved in the beer meetings.
I own a beer brewery now and we don't sell in Minnesota yet.
(www.manchesterbrewing.com).

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 29 10:08:07 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:08:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <fa17c9630910290753t3e97837ne327fd47478ecb87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEJECPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Munir Nassar
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:53 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 09:39, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Maybe it was just installfests that also had a talk, but many "official TCLUG events" were not held at U of MN, and 
> seemed frequent,
> > tho not every month.  Meetings at UMN went OK until the time we were tossed out of a planned and announced space 
> because some prof
> > "pulled rank" for his event.  Just a coincidence, but it showed we had no place or voice at UMN, and I felt things went downhill
> > fast from there.
> 
> The reason that the TCLUG no longer has a standing reservation at the
> U of M is because Ben Kochie who had the standing reservation left to
> work at greener pastures. The only time we did get bumped is because
> the reservation is only for 1 calendar year and (IIRC) he forgot to
> renew.
> 
> > Just clarifying my remarks and not trying to make a big issue of it.
> 
> just making sure the facts are right to the best of my recollection.

I recall that particular issue being the case of UMN policy that non-UMN orgs had no claims on space reservations, so could be pre-empted.  TCLUG was/is not UMN-owned.  There is discussion in the archives.  Also likely that there may have been a reservation issue, but policy was stated as trumping all - if/when the question was called by another group wanting to meet.

Many of the organized engineering associations (IEEE, ASME, MFES, etc) have had these problems, so few or none meet there.


Chuck

 



From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 10:29:24 2009
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:29:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <20091029100432.C7438@real-time.com>
References: <20837.1256825963@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091029100432.C7438@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc0910290829t3ec2f011y91dcb20558b7ed30@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

>
>
> Really, there's not nearly as much need for the LUG as there used to be.
> Linux is much easier to install, communication between everyone is better,
> and Linux has gotten far enough into the mainstream that there's not as
> much
> need for advocacy as there used to be. Linux didn't destroy all opponents
> in
> the OS wars; but it did force the other vendors (M$ and Apple) to get a lot
> better.


I generally agree with this.  I'm far more interested in the Free/Open
Source Software movements and issues than Linux itself as an OS.  Linux as a
platform - great!  But once Linux is on the box - then what?   So my focus
area is a bit broader, but LUG's seem to be the best place to find
like-minded people, including topics like:

* Licensing (understanding the GPL)
* Linux & F/OSS in the Enterprise
     - how to integrate into a windows-dominated environment
     - How to provide services to windows clients transparently
     - authentication and identity sourcing
     - Workflows and tool chains
* More broadly, our privacy rights
* Standards, and standards corruption by for-profit entities.
* Developing solutions on Linux with F/OSS tool chains
  - web develepment being a key area of interest for me.
* Coming changes/new features in the kernel.


> In the end, that's a pretty good result. Once again, the
> (relatively) free market helps consumers win in the end. :)
>

Free (liberated) software helped more than markets, imho.


>
> So the LUG is to a greater percentage what it always had been... a social
> club for geeks. :)
>
>
Yar.

-Rob
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From sraun at fireopal.org  Thu Oct 29 12:48:24 2009
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:48:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] System Rebuild Questions
Message-ID: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>

I had a Debian upgrade fail catastrophically.  I ended up going out
and buying a new hard-drive, and starting over from scratch.

I've got a Debian lenny up and running.  To be added features include
getting CUPS successfully configured, and adding a webmail client.

I'd like a webmail client that will access the mboxs in my home
directory, and supports block mark-read and block move.  Other than
that, I don't really care much.  Any suggestions?

I've got one other thing bugging me right now.  On the old system
there was a terminal / curses maintenance tool that I used for adding
users.  It was capable of more than that, but I never got around to
using any of the additional functionality.  I _thought_ it was called
linuxconf, but I can't find any hint that a program by that name ever
existed in Debian.  Any idea what it was actually called?

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From smcgrath23 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 13:48:27 2009
From: smcgrath23 at gmail.com (Steve McGrath)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] System Rebuild Questions
In-Reply-To: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
References: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <b84c57930910291148m19f12073q8b1f2eb5ccc0d0c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:

>
> I've got one other thing bugging me right now.  On the old system
> there was a terminal / curses maintenance tool that I used for adding
> users.  It was capable of more than that, but I never got around to
> using any of the additional functionality.  I _thought_ it was called
> linuxconf, but I can't find any hint that a program by that name ever
> existed in Debian.  Any idea what it was actually called?
>

There was most definitely a program called linuxconf, I know early RedHat
used it. I have no idea if it's still maintained anymore.
I switched to using Webmin to manage most of my Linux systems. You can
download a .deb from www.webmin.com, it runs it's own webserver on port
10000 by default, and doesn't mangle your config files or destroy your
comments, like Linuxconf seemed to do on occasion.
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From kris.browne at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 13:50:41 2009
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:50:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] System Rebuild Questions
In-Reply-To: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <4ae9e407.0d1abc0a.5ed5.0b2d@mx.google.com>

You should take a look at webmin/usermin. Webmin will take care of user admin for you, and the email module, while not as pretty as zimbra, is really flexible.

-- Sent from my Palm Pr?
Scott Raun wrote:

I had a Debian upgrade fail catastrophically.  I ended up going out

and buying a new hard-drive, and starting over from scratch.



I've got a Debian lenny up and running.  To be added features include

getting CUPS successfully configured, and adding a webmail client.



I'd like a webmail client that will access the mboxs in my home

directory, and supports block mark-read and block move.  Other than

that, I don't really care much.  Any suggestions?



I've got one other thing bugging me right now.  On the old system

there was a terminal / curses maintenance tool that I used for adding

users.  It was capable of more than that, but I never got around to

using any of the additional functionality.  I _thought_ it was called

linuxconf, but I can't find any hint that a program by that name ever

existed in Debian.  Any idea what it was actually called?



-- 

Scott Raun

sraun at fireopal.org



_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


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From aristophrenic at warpmail.net  Thu Oct 29 13:57:14 2009
From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:57:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] System Rebuild Questions
In-Reply-To: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
References: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <1256842634.6757.1342636989@webmail.messagingengine.com>



>I've got one other thing bugging me right now.  On the old system
>there was a terminal / curses maintenance tool that I used for adding
>users.  It was capable of more than that, but I never got around to
>using any of the additional functionality.  I _thought_ it was called
>linuxconf, but I can't find any hint that a program by that name ever
>existed in Debian.  Any idea what it was actually called?

Linuxconf is a tool that was commonly used and available to various
distributions.
I don't think it's used much anymore. It's basically an interface to the
system configuration files so all that additional functionality is still
there, it's just not available through that one interface.
Depending on your distribution, there may be a similar packaged tool
available such as webmin or yast.
If you really want to get to know your system, you can edit the
configuration files directly or use command line tools such as useradd.


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Oct 29 13:59:22 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:59:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
Message-ID: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz>

What are your recommendations when upgrading a RAID? I have an 8x1TB 
RAID5 and am contemplating upgrading to either 8x2GB or 8x1.5GB RAID5 or 
RAID6... But I cannot build another RAID in my system or build another 
easily or cheaply... The 6.4TB storage is about 70% full at the current 
moment.

Thanks,
Ryan


From a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com  Thu Oct 29 14:14:40 2009
From: a.kuriger at liquidphlux.com (Andrew Kuriger)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:14:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] System Rebuild Questions
In-Reply-To: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
References: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <25c5d5e7449c08a0fa5d65bddce73a07@mail.liquidphlux.com>


Hello Scott,

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:48:24 -0500, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:
> I had a Debian upgrade fail catastrophically.  I ended up going out
> and buying a new hard-drive, and starting over from scratch.
> 
> I've got a Debian lenny up and running.  To be added features include
> getting CUPS successfully configured, and adding a webmail client.
> 
> I'd like a webmail client that will access the mboxs in my home
> directory, and supports block mark-read and block move.  Other than
> that, I don't really care much.  Any suggestions?

I have been using Roundcube which I have found to be extremely robust and
extremely neat/tidy. The only thing I dont like (which may improve in the
future is a way to implement GnuPG/PGP. Very few clients do this normally
(standard feature) though. It access you mail via IMAP/s or POP. I am using
postfix+courier.

> 
> I've got one other thing bugging me right now.  On the old system
> there was a terminal / curses maintenance tool that I used for adding
> users.  It was capable of more than that, but I never got around to
> using any of the additional functionality.  I _thought_ it was called
> linuxconf, but I can't find any hint that a program by that name ever
> existed in Debian.  Any idea what it was actually called?

I know others have brought up using usermin/virtualmin which I believe is
a great front end for system administration (which I have thoroughly played
with) but I still prefer the old-skool way of modifying config files
manually. The major reason being that I would prefer not to run two httpd
servers, and the overhead.

I have never used linuxconf so I am unable to provide any information
regarding this application.

~Andrew

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail 
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Oct 29 14:21:20 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:21:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz> <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz>

I am not booting off the controller and it's a RocketRAID 2320 PCIe card.

Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> What are your recommendations when upgrading a RAID? I have an 8x1TB 
>> RAID5 and am contemplating upgrading to either 8x2GB or 8x1.5GB RAID5 
>> or RAID6... But I cannot build another RAID in my system or build 
>> another easily or cheaply... The 6.4TB storage is about 70% full at 
>> the current moment.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan
>
> What type of raid controller do you have?
>
> Also, are you booting off of the raid?
>
> Bob
>
>



From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Thu Oct 29 14:17:26 2009
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:17:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>

Ryan Coleman wrote:
> What are your recommendations when upgrading a RAID? I have an 8x1TB 
> RAID5 and am contemplating upgrading to either 8x2GB or 8x1.5GB RAID5 or 
> RAID6... But I cannot build another RAID in my system or build another 
> easily or cheaply... The 6.4TB storage is about 70% full at the current 
> moment.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ryan

What type of raid controller do you have?

Also, are you booting off of the raid?

Bob


-- 
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors.
You have our gratitude.
Those who oppose us will be sent to Detroit.


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Thu Oct 29 15:07:38 2009
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:07:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz> <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
	<4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <4AE9F60A.7080705@netscape.net>

Ryan Coleman wrote:
> I am not booting off the controller and it's a RocketRAID 2320 PCIe card.
> 

I had a similar situation about a year ago.  There is probably an easier 
(and quicker) solution to this, but this is what I did & it worked fine.

You can swap out the new drives one by one, rebuild the raid array each 
time you add a new drive, and when finished (all new drive installed & 
built) extend the partition.

Again this worked for me, but it took a hell of a long time.

Good Luck!

Mr. B-o-B



-- 
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors.
You have our gratitude.
Those who oppose us will be sent to Detroit.


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Oct 29 15:12:40 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:12:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <4AE9F60A.7080705@netscape.net>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz> <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
	<4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz> <4AE9F60A.7080705@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <4AE9F738.7090602@cwis.biz>

Yeah, that's probably not going to be an option *if* I go through with 
it... that's too much downtime, to be honest. I can pick up a couple 
extra 2GB drives or even pull some 500Gs that aren't in use to copy the 
data... that way my downtime is only about the time to shutdown, remove 
drives and install new ones...  It houses about 3,000,000 photos right 
now and it's my busy time of year. I do, though, appreciate the insight 
and if push comes to shove and this occurs over the summer I will 
probably go that route.

Thank you.

Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> I am not booting off the controller and it's a RocketRAID 2320 PCIe 
>> card.
>>
>
> I had a similar situation about a year ago.  There is probably an 
> easier (and quicker) solution to this, but this is what I did & it 
> worked fine.
>
> You can swap out the new drives one by one, rebuild the raid array 
> each time you add a new drive, and when finished (all new drive 
> installed & built) extend the partition.
>
> Again this worked for me, but it took a hell of a long time.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Mr. B-o-B
>
>
>



From sraun at fireopal.org  Thu Oct 29 15:11:10 2009
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:11:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] System Rebuild Questions
In-Reply-To: <1256842634.6757.1342636989@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
	<1256842634.6757.1342636989@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20091029201110.GA10846@fireopal.org>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 01:57:14PM -0500, Isaac Atilano wrote:
> If you really want to get to know your system, you can edit the
> configuration files directly or use command line tools such as useradd.

Which is actually my preferred method.  And until I can spend some
time figuring out DebConf, it's driving me _nuts_!  Apparently Debian
is currently storing a bunch of config data in a database somewhere,
and - I think - the program goes to read it's config file, sees that
there is debconf info for some things, and queries debconf.  This is
NOT useful when I know that something is mis-configured for exim, and
the bit that it looks like it should be is a debconf macro!

Yes, I could blow away the debconf macro and just edit it straight -
but what i really want is a way to get all the macros expanded and
then have the program no longer call debconf, or a way to get into
debconf to directly examine the data.  I assume there are tools for
doing this, I just haven't had time to go look for them and figure
them out.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 15:13:02 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:13:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) just came out today.  I think their server is 
overloaded but you might have local mirrors.  For example:

http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/

I'll wait a few days to update my Ubuntu machines.


A friend wrote:

Looks like the kernel.org mirror is still responding pretty quickly if all 
you need is an iso. I'd imagine the apt repositories are another story 
altogether!

Another friend wrote:

I used a torrent to download.  Almost done now.  Speed is between 40KB and 
400 KB or so for me.


Mike


From hewhocutsdown at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 15:24:50 2009
From: hewhocutsdown at gmail.com (Jordan Peacock)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:24:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <bada98250910291324j7437523s79eaf1323b1a2170@mail.gmail.com>

Been running on this since Alpha 2. Very happy thus far, it's been a really
smooth upgrade.

======================
Jordan Peacock
hewhocutsdown at gmail.com
hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com


On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Mike Miller
<mbmiller+l at gmail.com<mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) just came out today.  I think their server is
> overloaded but you might have local mirrors.  For example:
>
> http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/
>
> I'll wait a few days to update my Ubuntu machines.
>
>
> A friend wrote:
>
> Looks like the kernel.org mirror is still responding pretty quickly if all
> you need is an iso. I'd imagine the apt repositories are another story
> altogether!
>
> Another friend wrote:
>
> I used a torrent to download.  Almost done now.  Speed is between 40KB and
> 400 KB or so for me.
>
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From smcgrath23 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 15:29:06 2009
From: smcgrath23 at gmail.com (Steve McGrath)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:29:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] System Rebuild Questions
In-Reply-To: <20091029201110.GA10846@fireopal.org>
References: <20091029174824.GA7785@fireopal.org>
	<1256842634.6757.1342636989@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<20091029201110.GA10846@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <b84c57930910291329o56c94d7bg52ae6adb68d65eba@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 01:57:14PM -0500, Isaac Atilano wrote:
> > If you really want to get to know your system, you can edit the
> > configuration files directly or use command line tools such as useradd.
>
> Which is actually my preferred method.  And until I can spend some
> time figuring out DebConf, it's driving me _nuts_!  Apparently Debian
> is currently storing a bunch of config data in a database somewhere,
> and - I think - the program goes to read it's config file, sees that
> there is debconf info for some things, and queries debconf.  This is
> NOT useful when I know that something is mis-configured for exim, and
> the bit that it looks like it should be is a debconf macro!
>
> Yes, I could blow away the debconf macro and just edit it straight -
> but what i really want is a way to get all the macros expanded and
> then have the program no longer call debconf, or a way to get into
> debconf to directly examine the data.  I assume there are tools for
> doing this, I just haven't had time to go look for them and figure
> them out.
>
> --
> Scott Raun
> sraun at fireopal.org
>
> As far as I know, debconf is only used to tweak certain parts of the config
files during package installation and upgrades. I don't believe any programs
query debconf during their normal operation. On the other hand, exim seems
to be Debian's chosen MTA, so they may have done some wierd things to it.
Franky, exim scares the hell out of me. I use postfix, and debconf does
alter the config files *when instructed to do so* but other than that the
config files remain normal-looking and easily editable.

Just my two cents.
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From scott at dier.name  Thu Oct 29 15:32:57 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:32:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60910291332j5f0e9fcif5fab38953715f0a@mail.gmail.com>

If at /all/ possible use bittorrent.  Many mirrors seed into it and
honestly its your best bet.

Thanks,

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) just came out today. ?I think their server is
> overloaded but you might have local mirrors. ?For example:
>
> http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu/
>
> I'll wait a few days to update my Ubuntu machines.
>
>
> A friend wrote:
>
> Looks like the kernel.org mirror is still responding pretty quickly if all
> you need is an iso. I'd imagine the apt repositories are another story
> altogether!
>
> Another friend wrote:
>
> I used a torrent to download. ?Almost done now. ?Speed is between 40KB and
> 400 KB or so for me.
>
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Thu Oct 29 15:31:17 2009
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:31:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <4AE9F738.7090602@cwis.biz>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz> <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
	<4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz> <4AE9F60A.7080705@netscape.net>
	<4AE9F738.7090602@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <4AE9FB95.9000508@netscape.net>

Ryan Coleman wrote:
> Yeah, that's probably not going to be an option *if* I go through with 
> it... that's too much downtime, to be honest. I can pick up a couple 
> extra 2GB drives or even pull some 500Gs that aren't in use to copy the 
> data... that way my downtime is only about the time to shutdown, remove 
> drives and install new ones...  It houses about 3,000,000 photos right 
> now and it's my busy time of year. I do, though, appreciate the insight 
> and if push comes to shove and this occurs over the summer I will 
> probably go that route.
> 

Indeed.  Good Luck!


-- 
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors.
You have our gratitude.
Those who oppose us will be sent to Detroit.


From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Thu Oct 29 15:39:31 2009
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:39:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480910291339q4c7d3bf8ifce184fd3bf6eb12@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 15:13, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) just came out today.

I've been running it since an early beta (but not brave enough to have
done an alpha install) on both my laptop and desktops for work (as
well as the home systems) and have been quite pleased.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman
612.234.7778


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 16:49:00 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:49:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <51d20ae60910291332j5f0e9fcif5fab38953715f0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<51d20ae60910291332j5f0e9fcif5fab38953715f0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291644480.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Scott Dier wrote:

> If at /all/ possible use bittorrent.  Many mirrors seed into it and 
> honestly its your best bet.



From j at packetgod.com  Thu Oct 29 16:59:37 2009
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:59:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291644480.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<51d20ae60910291332j5f0e9fcif5fab38953715f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291644480.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a0910291459n4798acd6gaa46211701b7de16@mail.gmail.com>

So for an upgrade on a system do y'all think it would be better to bittorent
a copy then add a local source to my apt configuration?

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Mike Miller
<mbmiller+l at gmail.com<mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Scott Dier wrote:
>
> > If at /all/ possible use bittorrent.  Many mirrors seed into it and
> > honestly its your best bet.
>
>
> From Robert Citek on another list:
>
> Here's a script to get most of the isos via the bittorrent client
> rtorrent:
>
> tors="
> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-alternate-amd64.iso.torrent
> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-alternate-i386.iso.torrent
> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-amd64.iso.torrent
> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-i386.iso.torrent
> "
> wget $tors
> rtorrent *.torrent
>
> Place in a screen session, disconnect, and wait.
>
> Regards,
> - Robert
>
>
> Presumably you would do this from a directory that contained no .torrent
> files when you started.  Also, you should delete the lines that correspond
> to files that you don't want.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From scott at dier.name  Thu Oct 29 17:07:11 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:07:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0910291459n4798acd6gaa46211701b7de16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu> 
	<51d20ae60910291332j5f0e9fcif5fab38953715f0a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291644480.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<38aa5b6a0910291459n4798acd6gaa46211701b7de16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60910291507p12fd123evdad0465653a23de1@mail.gmail.com>

I'd just add one of the online sources if you already have an installation.

Thanks,

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:59 PM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
> So for an upgrade on a system do y'all think it would be better to bittorent
> a copy then add a local source to my apt configuration?
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Scott Dier wrote:
>>
>> > If at /all/ possible use bittorrent. ?Many mirrors seed into it and
>> > honestly its your best bet.
>>
>>
>> From Robert Citek on another list:
>>
>> Here's a script to get most of the isos via the bittorrent client
>> rtorrent:
>>
>> tors="
>> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-alternate-amd64.iso.torrent
>> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-alternate-i386.iso.torrent
>> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
>> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
>> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-amd64.iso.torrent
>> http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-i386.iso.torrent
>> "
>> wget $tors
>> rtorrent *.torrent
>>
>> Place in a screen session, disconnect, and wait.
>>
>> Regards,
>> - Robert
>>
>>
>> Presumably you would do this from a directory that contained no .torrent
>> files when you started. ?Also, you should delete the lines that correspond
>> to files that you don't want.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 17:10:36 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:10:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <38aa5b6a0910291459n4798acd6gaa46211701b7de16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<51d20ae60910291332j5f0e9fcif5fab38953715f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291644480.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<38aa5b6a0910291459n4798acd6gaa46211701b7de16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291709360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, J Cruit wrote:

> So for an upgrade on a system do y'all think it would be better to 
> bittorent a copy then add a local source to my apt configuration?

I think an upgrade might mean downloading a lot of packages that aren't on 
the CD, so there might still be a lot of slowness.  Someone else probably 
knows for certain.

Mike


From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 18:09:14 2009
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:09:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291709360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291511270.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<51d20ae60910291332j5f0e9fcif5fab38953715f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291644480.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<38aa5b6a0910291459n4798acd6gaa46211701b7de16@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910291709360.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <254fef0f0910291609r4291774eua0deeae33ac4f874@mail.gmail.com>

If you come to the installfest at TIES on Saturday, I'm planning to
have a local mirror of the repositories on-site that you can use.  (If
I don't break anything first...)

Tony Yarusso
http://tonyyarusso.com/


From andyzib at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 18:32:55 2009
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:32:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <4AE9FB95.9000508@netscape.net>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz> <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
	<4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz> <4AE9F60A.7080705@netscape.net>
	<4AE9F738.7090602@cwis.biz> <4AE9FB95.9000508@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <cac45c240910291632k4a2f58acrba6a69b2641acb26@mail.gmail.com>

You might want to look at a Drobo or DroboPro as a possible upgrade.
It's not as geeky as doing it yourself with Linux, but it sounds like
it's a critial business server so the investment in a little hardware
to save you time may be worthwhile.

Drobos allow you to swap one drive at a time to grow your available
storage, so you can swap a single drive, let the Drobo rebuild, swap
the next drive, rebuild, and keep your data live at all times.
(http://www.drobo.com/) Main downside is connectivity: USB2 or
Firewire 800 for the standard 4 drive Drobo. DroboPro supports 8
drives and adds iSCSI, which is nice if you have a GigE switch. (Linux
and Windows have built in iSCSI support, Drobo provides an iSCSI
initiator for MacOS)

The Drobo presents itself to your computer as a 16 TB drive (for the
standard Drobo). You have to use the Drobo Dashboard or go by the
lights on the Drobo to see how full it really is. They are nice little
units for cheapish mass storage. Data Robotics' support isn't full
enterprise level, but for 1 person or SMB I think it's acceptable. A
couple friends have pointed out that you have to pay for firmware
upgrades after included manufactures warranty runs out. Seems like an
acceptable trade-off.

Currently running a pair of the 2nd Gen 4 drive units on a MacOSX
server for archiving data as they were a cheap stop-gap measure while
waiting for budget dollars for an enterprise class archival storage.
The Drobos are mirrors of each other so we periodically test drive
failure by pulling a drive out. No issues so far.

Whatever path you choose, make sure you back it up. RAID (and Drobo's
BeyondRAID) is not backup. ;-)


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Oct 29 21:59:41 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:59:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <cac45c240910291632k4a2f58acrba6a69b2641acb26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz> <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
	<4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz> <4AE9F60A.7080705@netscape.net>
	<4AE9F738.7090602@cwis.biz> <4AE9FB95.9000508@netscape.net>
	<cac45c240910291632k4a2f58acrba6a69b2641acb26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82D8D798-4F7E-4503-83C9-2C4085B7FF78@cwis.biz>

Yeah, ... uhm... that's a hardware expense that is not an option. I  
make <$5000/year with this work personally  and $3000 for the unit is  
about 3x what I'd pay for the hardware...

I already have the hardware I need, just need to know the best route  
to go to expand.


On Oct 29, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote:

> You might want to look at a Drobo or DroboPro as a possible upgrade.
> It's not as geeky as doing it yourself with Linux, but it sounds like
> it's a critial business server so the investment in a little hardware
> to save you time may be worthwhile.
>
> Drobos allow you to swap one drive at a time to grow your available
> storage, so you can swap a single drive, let the Drobo rebuild, swap
> the next drive, rebuild, and keep your data live at all times.
> (http://www.drobo.com/) Main downside is connectivity: USB2 or
> Firewire 800 for the standard 4 drive Drobo. DroboPro supports 8
> drives and adds iSCSI, which is nice if you have a GigE switch. (Linux
> and Windows have built in iSCSI support, Drobo provides an iSCSI
> initiator for MacOS)
>
> The Drobo presents itself to your computer as a 16 TB drive (for the
> standard Drobo). You have to use the Drobo Dashboard or go by the
> lights on the Drobo to see how full it really is. They are nice little
> units for cheapish mass storage. Data Robotics' support isn't full
> enterprise level, but for 1 person or SMB I think it's acceptable. A
> couple friends have pointed out that you have to pay for firmware
> upgrades after included manufactures warranty runs out. Seems like an
> acceptable trade-off.
>
> Currently running a pair of the 2nd Gen 4 drive units on a MacOSX
> server for archiving data as they were a cheap stop-gap measure while
> waiting for budget dollars for an enterprise class archival storage.
> The Drobos are mirrors of each other so we periodically test drive
> failure by pulling a drive out. No issues so far.
>
> Whatever path you choose, make sure you back it up. RAID (and Drobo's
> BeyondRAID) is not backup. ;-)
>
>
> -- 
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 30 10:35:48 2009
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:35:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
Message-ID: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?  I?ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad core and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the software.

 --- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


      
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From dniesen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 30 11:05:46 2009
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:05:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?? I?ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad core
> and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the software.
>
> ---
> Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those
> 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done,"
> Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right,
> (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


I have it in production on afew Ubuntu servers x64 (8.04 and 9.04
mostly I think).  No major problems, just a lot of performance
tweaking to get the VMs running well.  No stability issues though.

What kind of problems are you seeing?

-- 
Donovan Niesen


From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Fri Oct 30 11:20:17 2009
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:20:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <63874609a6067385a9a63159f3c31ad9.squirrel@flyballdogs.com>


Wayne Johnson wrote:
> Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?  I???ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad
> core and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the software.

I unfortunately have to do the bulk of my development work in Windows even
though its all J2EE.  So I keep linux as my host OS and run XP in virtual
machine for the coding/testing.

I used to use vmware server but it seemed like their drivers would always
fail to compile and I would get some strange kernel panics.  I've switched
over to virtualbox.  It runs smoother, I've yet to have a problem with a
kernel upgrade, and the seamless mode is great.

-- 
Kathryn
http://womensfooty.com
National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate


From josh at joshwelch.com  Fri Oct 30 11:12:09 2009
From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:12:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cb8bd0d60910300912t4321be95k457a5183999eadd2@mail.gmail.com>

I've run that on a few different older machines without issues, beyond
the fact that performance is kind of poor. I've not run it on anything
as new as the processor you referencing, might not play well with the
64bit stuff.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?? I?ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad core
> and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the software.
>
> ---
> Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those
> 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done,"
> Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right,
> (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Fri Oct 30 11:32:50 2009
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:32:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <63874609a6067385a9a63159f3c31ad9.squirrel@flyballdogs.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<63874609a6067385a9a63159f3c31ad9.squirrel@flyballdogs.com>
Message-ID: <4AEB1532.4070304@umn.edu>

Kathryn Hogg wrote:
> Wayne Johnson wrote:
>   
>> Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?  I?EUR^(TM)ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad
>> core and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the software.
>>     
>
> I unfortunately have to do the bulk of my development work in Windows even
> though its all J2EE.  So I keep linux as my host OS and run XP in virtual
> machine for the coding/testing.
>
> I used to use vmware server but it seemed like their drivers would always
> fail to compile and I would get some strange kernel panics.  I've switched
> over to virtualbox.  It runs smoother, I've yet to have a problem with a
> kernel upgrade, and the seamless mode is great.
>
>   
Have you considered running ESXi and all of the operating systems you 
need on top of it? Compatibility (apart from hardware) should not be an 
issue in such a setup and performance would be better if you require 
multiple virtual machines running at the same time. If you 
intermittently need a few virtual machines, then Virtualbox is certainly 
a great solution as I use it too.
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Oct 30 11:59:01 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:59:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910301156550.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, Donovan wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?? I?ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad 
>> core and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the 
>> software.
>
> I have it in production on afew Ubuntu servers x64 (8.04 and 9.04 mostly 
> I think).  No major problems, just a lot of performance tweaking to get 
> the VMs running well.  No stability issues though.


In case anyone is interested, I have been using VirtualBox, which is free 
software, and it has been working well-enough for me.  It was not very 
hard to install and get started.  I'm running Windows XP on VirtualBox 
installed on Ubuntu 64 9.04.

Mike

From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Fri Oct 30 12:11:59 2009
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:11:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910301156550.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com> 
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910301156550.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <f0e11c480910301011m3ed90fe8lca53d2b6d849a4f1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:59, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> In case anyone is interested, I have been using VirtualBox, which is free
> software, and it has been working well-enough for me. ?It was not very hard
> to install and get started. ?I'm running Windows XP on VirtualBox installed
> on Ubuntu 64 9.04.

I also run VB OSE and find it works great. There are some documents I
need to massage here at work (our Purchasing department is a prime
example) where OOo (even at v3.1.1) just doesn't cut it. At home I
also use an XPSP3 image to watch Netflix movies in full-screen and it
works great.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman
612.234.7778
Sent from Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States


From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Oct 30 12:20:31 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:20:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] * Saturday * Install FEST! @ PenguinsUnbound Linux
 Meeting Saturday Oct. 31
Message-ID: <4AEB205F.6060708@Goecke-Dolan.com>


This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday October 31 at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 9:00am to 4:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

With the release of Ubuntu 9.10 we are have an Install Fest!

So come, bring your computers and install Ubuntu 9.10 (or any Linux 
Distribution!) from 9:00am to 4:00pm October 31 !

You can learn more about the Ubuntu 9.10 ( Karmic Koala ) here
http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/karmic/beta
or some here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases#Ubuntu_9.10_.28Karmic_Koala.29

You can download ubuntu locally from
http://aptcache.ties2.net/Software/Ubuntu/9.10-Karmic/

Hope to see you there!





From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 30 12:25:33 2009
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:25:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72532.86785.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am using Centos-5.4 (AKA Redhat-5.4).  I install it fine, but as it's installing all of a sudden the VM powers off.  I looked in the log and it says something about an unexpected signal 6.  I did some googling but didn't come up with anything much.  

The new web interface to the VMs is great, I just wish it would work.

I also tried VirtualBox.  It seemed to work fine, but I'm not thrilled with having to have an X window open to run the VM.  I was planning to run the server semi-headless and let the family access it via the VMWare remote client (we use VMWare 1 at work).  Thought it would be nice to let the kids be able to create their own machines to break.  One of them is studying for a MCSA, so it would be nice to have disposable systems.

From: Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com>

To: Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com>
Cc: Twin Cities Linux Users Group <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 11:05:46 AM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Wayne Johnson <wdtj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?  I?ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad core
> and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the software.
>

I have it in production on afew Ubuntu servers x64 (8.04 and 9.04
mostly I think).  No major problems, just a lot of performance
tweaking to get the VMs running well.  No stability issues though.

What kind of problems are you seeing?

-- 
Donovan Niesen



      
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From trnja001 at umn.edu  Fri Oct 30 12:39:46 2009
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:39:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <72532.86785.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<72532.86785.qm@web53810.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AEB24E2.3000007@umn.edu>

Wayne Johnson wrote:
> *I am using Centos-5.4 (AKA Redhat-5.4).  I install it fine, but as 
> it's installing all of a sudden the VM powers off.  I looked in the 
> log and it says something about an unexpected signal 6.  I did some 
> googling but didn't come up with anything much. 
>
> The new web interface to the VMs is great, I just wish it would work.
>
> I also tried VirtualBox.  It seemed to work fine, but I'm not thrilled 
> with having to have an X window open to run the VM.  I was planning to 
> run the server semi-headless and let the family access it via the 
> VMWare remote client (we use VMWare 1 at work).  Thought it would be 
> nice to let the kids be able to create their own machines to break.  
> One of them is studying for a MCSA, so it would be nice to have 
> disposable systems.
> *

In such a case, I recommend you look at ESXi or Citrix XenServer. The 
vSphere and XenCenter clients would allow great monitoring of resource 
usage and for ESXi, you could overcommit resources so that many virtual 
machines can run at the same time.

Plus with a hypervisor running on bare metal, it's less management for you.
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Oct 30 12:52:39 2009
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:52:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc0910290829t3ec2f011y91dcb20558b7ed30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20837.1256825963@skuld.wookimus.net>	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>	<20091029100432.C7438@real-time.com>
	<cac10ddc0910290829t3ec2f011y91dcb20558b7ed30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AEB27E7.3000302@Goecke-Dolan.com>


I agree, a LUG is were you can and do get a broader education about 
computers and computer issues.  (Usually with a little bit of a Linux 
slant !-)  But is a good place to learn, and share your knowledge.

I have always found the meeting *VERY* useful.  And was very 
disappointed to see the TCLug stop having regular meeting.  And had for 
years tried to find a somewhere to have a meeting.  Now I personally am 
not a fan of meeting at the U of M, and I don't like to meet week 
nights.  So with those constraints I felt it was easier to start my own 
group, and chose to no go through the TCLug.  So that is how Penguins 
Unbound came about.

So I would encourage all to come and check out the Penguins Unbound 
meeting.  I would love to have someone come and talk about any of the 
topics, and I plan on drawing up the calendar for next year in December. 
    The best place to get info about the Penguins Unbound is at the website
http://www.PenguinsUnbound.com.  And I do post all meeting announcements 
to the TCLug list, so you can just watch this mailing list.

Thanks.

==>brian.
Brian Dolan-Goecke

Robert Nesius wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom 
> <chrome at real-time.com <mailto:chrome at real-time.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     Really, there's not nearly as much need for the LUG as there used to be.
>     Linux is much easier to install, communication between everyone is
>     better,
>     and Linux has gotten far enough into the mainstream that there's not
>     as much
>     need for advocacy as there used to be. Linux didn't destroy all
>     opponents in
>     the OS wars; but it did force the other vendors (M$ and Apple) to
>     get a lot
>     better. 
> 
> 
> I generally agree with this.  I'm far more interested in the Free/Open 
> Source Software movements and issues than Linux itself as an OS.  Linux 
> as a platform - great!  But once Linux is on the box - then what?   So 
> my focus area is a bit broader, but LUG's seem to be the best place to 
> find like-minded people, including topics like:
> 
> * Licensing (understanding the GPL)
> * Linux & F/OSS in the Enterprise
>      - how to integrate into a windows-dominated environment
>      - How to provide services to windows clients transparently
>      - authentication and identity sourcing
>      - Workflows and tool chains
> * More broadly, our privacy rights
> * Standards, and standards corruption by for-profit entities.  
> * Developing solutions on Linux with F/OSS tool chains
>   - web develepment being a key area of interest for me.
> * Coming changes/new features in the kernel.
>  
> 
>     In the end, that's a pretty good result. Once again, the
>     (relatively) free market helps consumers win in the end. :)
> 
> 
> Free (liberated) software helped more than markets, imho.
>  
> 
> 
>     So the LUG is to a greater percentage what it always had been... a
>     social
>     club for geeks. :)
> 
> 
> Yar.
> 
> -Rob 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From tclugl at whitleymott.net  Fri Oct 30 12:54:08 2009
From: tclugl at whitleymott.net (greg wm)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:54:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare/virtualbox/esxi/xen/kvm
Message-ID: <429c5ec20910301054u187cf1b2s7a33adf7a2b88b99@mail.gmail.com>

the time has come for me to take the leap into virtualizing, partly to run a
mix of older/newer pgsql/php versions, partly to better isolate eager
clients from other established sites.  we've been presuming we'll just go
with rhel5.4 kvm.  all the namedropping in the vmware thread makes me wonder
what feature/gotcha tradeoffs exist.  i'll appreciate good comparisons,
pointers, stories, warnings, encourgement..
ty,
-g
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From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Fri Oct 30 13:15:17 2009
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:15:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <4AEB27E7.3000302@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <20837.1256825963@skuld.wookimus.net>
	<DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEPOPIAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091029100432.C7438@real-time.com>
	<cac10ddc0910290829t3ec2f011y91dcb20558b7ed30@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEB27E7.3000302@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <254fef0f0910301115t73351bf7ta98749f36bf4bc81@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke
<goeko at goecke-dolan.com> wrote:
> I have always found the meeting *VERY* useful. ?And was very
> disappointed to see the TCLug stop having regular meeting. ?And had for
> years tried to find a somewhere to have a meeting. ?Now I personally am
> not a fan of meeting at the U of M, and I don't like to meet week
> nights. ?So with those constraints I felt it was easier to start my own
> group, and chose to no go through the TCLug. ?So that is how Penguins
> Unbound came about.

I'm a little bit confused by this.  Given that "TCLUG" isn't really a
formal entity and just the collection of its members, why is Penguins
Unbound billed as a separate group if it's intended to basically just
be LUG meetings at a time that works for you?  As I understand it,
there isn't any process to "go through the TCLug" to organize things
for - someone just decides to do something and runs with it.  Perhaps
you could elaborate a little more on the separate PU branding?

 - Tony Yarusso


From trnja001 at umn.edu  Fri Oct 30 14:06:31 2009
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:06:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare/virtualbox/esxi/xen/kvm
In-Reply-To: <429c5ec20910301054u187cf1b2s7a33adf7a2b88b99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec20910301054u187cf1b2s7a33adf7a2b88b99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AEB3937.8030002@umn.edu>

As a virtualization engineer of sorts, I should probably summarize what 
I know so hopefully someone else will find it useful.

If you're seriously looking into virutalization, only look at the bare 
metal hypervisors. That means the virtualization product you're using is 
not running on top of some other operating system, but rather has its 
own operating system. This improves efficiency and reliability as the 
product can only consist of the bare essentials. While products such as 
Virtualbox, VMware Server which run top of some other operating systems 
have merit and are good stepping stones for virtualizing your 
infrastructure, over time they will prove harder to management. 
Microsoft's Hyper-V is a bit of a mix as between a bare metal hypervisor 
and something running on top of another OS as many things that Hyper-V 
does not need are disabled.

Virtualbox and VMware Workstation are useful for desktop users or any 
other situation where few virtual machines are required. Pushing those 
two products to do server VM hosting will quickly produce a suboptimal 
situation.

For hosting servers, you should be looking at VMware's ESX and ESXi, 
Citrix XenServer. I am not going to talk about Xen and KVM as my 
experience with those two is quite limited.

ESX is VMware's flagship hypervisor which has a service console running 
on RHEL5. The service console is not meant to be used as a general 
purpose RHEL install so it restricted to what you can do with it. ESXi 
is the hypervisor without the service console. There are other issues 
like lack of jumbo frame support and certain other features that enabled 
ESXi to have a smaller install and memory footprint. The Service Console 
can take close to 300MB of RAM, so ESXi allows for slightly greater 
resource utilization. ESXi is also comes embedded on a server so that 
using VirtualCenter, that ESXi host can join a cluster and start 
working. For large deployments, the management capabilities and web 
access provided by the Service Console on ESX outweigh the licensing costs.

I mentioned VirtualCenter earlier and it is a application residing on a 
Windows 2003+ virtual machine or physical machine (hooked up to SQL 
Server, or Oracle). What it provides is a central management point for 
all of your ESX and ESXi machines and allows for things like resource 
scheduling, power management, virtual machine and storage migrations 
among a few other things. It is not provided with ESX or ESXi, so it 
costs extra. Where ESX(i) really shines is in its ability to enable high 
consolidation ratios with things like thin provisioning of storage 
(enabled by NFS or your storage array), memory page sharing (same thing 
your OS does with apps using the same libraries, but at a VM level), and 
resource overcommitting.

Resource overcommitting is really useful as it will allow you to give a 
VM more resources than actually exists in a physical host. While 
initially this might seem like a silly thing, note that no other 
hypervisor supports it. If we consider a virtual desktop implementation, 
we could get as many as 7 virtual machines per processing core (industry 
standard, more or less). For a XP Professional desktop, 256MB is 
required to install it which means for a 16 core system, you need 28GB 
of RAM to meet just the bare minimum. Often, you would give each virtual 
machine 512 MB or even 1 GB of RAM which means 56 GB and 112 GB total 
RAM respectively. It becomes pretty cost prohibitive to add that much 
RAM to a server so with overcommiting, we can give every virtual machine 
1 GB of RAM without buying all of those extra DIMMs. If we think back 
about the memory page sharing and the fact that most business user 
desktops don't actually use so much memory, resource overcommitting 
seems like a great feature that will allow you to have greater 
consolidation ratios (how many VMs per host) compared to hypervisors 
that do not support overcommitting. While the example I used is about 
virtual desktops, it does extend to virtual servers as well.

The features ESX(i) and XenServer share are things like live VM 
migration, which means a VM running on one physical host can be migrated 
to run on a different physical host with very limited interruption to 
the functioning of the virtual machine. For the current versions, the 
downtime for ESX is usually much less than a second while for XenServer, 
it is slightly higher. This live migration functionality (vMotion for 
VMware and XenMotion for XenServer) is used for other things like 
resource scheduling (power management), and fault tolerance. There are a 
lot of other cool things, but I'll stop here as I've already said too 
much without little focus.

If there are any other questions about anything virtualization related, 
I would be happy to answer.

greg wm wrote:
> the time has come for me to take the leap into virtualizing, partly to 
> run a mix of older/newer pgsql/php versions, partly to better isolate 
> eager clients from other established sites.  we've been presuming 
> we'll just go with rhel5.4 kvm.  all the namedropping in the vmware 
> thread makes me wonder what feature/gotcha tradeoffs exist.  i'll 
> appreciate good comparisons, pointers, stories, warnings, encourgement..
> ty,
> -g
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Oct 30 15:31:12 2009
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:31:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <f0e11c480910301011m3ed90fe8lca53d2b6d849a4f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<47f4d5e70910300905g2af07363kd560b32c2b8847ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910301156550.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<f0e11c480910301011m3ed90fe8lca53d2b6d849a4f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910301527010.17313@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009, Brian D. Ropers-Huilman wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:59, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In case anyone is interested, I have been using VirtualBox, which is 
>> free software, and it has been working well-enough for me. ?It was not 
>> very hard to install and get started. ?I'm running Windows XP on 
>> VirtualBox installed on Ubuntu 64 9.04.
>
> I also run VB OSE and find it works great. There are some documents I 
> need to massage here at work (our Purchasing department is a prime 
> example) where OOo (even at v3.1.1) just doesn't cut it. At home I also 
> use an XPSP3 image to watch Netflix movies in full-screen and it works 
> great.

Exactly -- it's that kind of thing that makes a complete break from 
Windows either very inconvenient or impossible.  When colleagues need 
exact formatting of a document or for some VBS program to work, we get 
stuck with Microsoft Office in Windows.  There just isn't a free-software 
answer just yet.  I expect that we'll move toward wider use of open 
formats, though, and that is bound to help a lot.

Mike

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Fri Oct 30 15:53:27 2009
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:53:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare/virtualbox/esxi/xen/kvm
In-Reply-To: <4AEB3937.8030002@umn.edu>
References: <429c5ec20910301054u187cf1b2s7a33adf7a2b88b99@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AEB3937.8030002@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <254fef0f0910301353q47657da2l947bdc2bf022d238@mail.gmail.com>

The handful of things I can add to that:

For home users, a major consideration in virtualization systems is
whether they require hardware support.  Xen, KVM, and I would guess
ESX all require that your CPU have virtualization "extensions" /
"flags".  In modern CPUs, almost all AMD ones have this (even in the
budget lines), but Intel restricts it a bit more to their higher-end
products.  The older the CPU, the higher end it had to be to have
them, as the entry of this technology into the consumer market instead
of pure datacenter rigs is relatively recent.  Due to this, my
personal experience so far is only with VirtualBox at home, as I don't
have that support and so needed this kind of product.  (I also used
VMware Fusion briefly at work.)

While I haven't had a chance to use them yet, I can point out some key
things about KVM and Xen.  Both are bare-metal type hypervisors, like
ESX.  In addition to the usual x86 and x86_64, both also work on
IA-64, and KVM also works on PowerPC and s390, if that's a concern for
you.  Xen generally uses paravirtualization with a modified kernel,
which can be a complication depending on your environment, although
with hardware extensions in the CPU it can also run unmodified guests.
 KVM uses unmodified guests.  Both allow for live migration.


From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 30 16:43:44 2009
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:43:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <254fef0f0910301115t73351bf7ta98749f36bf4bc81@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEJPCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Tony Yarusso
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 1:15 PM
> To: TCLUG
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke
> <goeko at goecke-dolan.com> wrote:
> > I have always found the meeting *VERY* useful.  And was very
> > disappointed to see the TCLug stop having regular meeting.  And had for
> > years tried to find a somewhere to have a meeting.  Now I personally am
> > not a fan of meeting at the U of M, and I don't like to meet week
> > nights.  So with those constraints I felt it was easier to start my own
> > group, and chose to no go through the TCLug.  So that is how Penguins
> > Unbound came about.
> 
> I'm a little bit confused by this.  Given that "TCLUG" isn't really a
> formal entity and just the collection of its members, why is Penguins
> Unbound billed as a separate group if it's intended to basically just
> be LUG meetings at a time that works for you?  As I understand it,
> there isn't any process to "go through the TCLug" to organize things
> for - someone just decides to do something and runs with it.  Perhaps
> you could elaborate a little more on the separate PU branding?
> 
>  - Tony Yarusso

It's a polite formality... perhaps just diplomacy.   Some in TCLUG are/were somewhat possessive and may not understand that TCLUG really isn't any more than a list and web site.


Chuck



From florin at iucha.net  Fri Oct 30 17:06:32 2009
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:06:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEJPCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <254fef0f0910301115t73351bf7ta98749f36bf4bc81@mail.gmail.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEJPCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20091030220632.GK27599@iris.iucha.org>

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 04:43:44PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke
> > <goeko at goecke-dolan.com> wrote:
> > > I have always found the meeting *VERY* useful.  And was very
> > > disappointed to see the TCLug stop having regular meeting.  And had for
> > > years tried to find a somewhere to have a meeting.  Now I personally am
> > > not a fan of meeting at the U of M, and I don't like to meet week
> > > nights.  So with those constraints I felt it was easier to start my own
> > > group, and chose to no go through the TCLug.  So that is how Penguins
> > > Unbound came about.
> > 
> > I'm a little bit confused by this.  Given that "TCLUG" isn't really a
> > formal entity and just the collection of its members, why is Penguins
> > Unbound billed as a separate group if it's intended to basically just
> > be LUG meetings at a time that works for you?  As I understand it,
> > there isn't any process to "go through the TCLug" to organize things
> > for - someone just decides to do something and runs with it.  Perhaps
> > you could elaborate a little more on the separate PU branding?
> > 
> It's a polite formality... perhaps just diplomacy. Some in TCLUG
> are/were somewhat possessive and may not understand that TCLUG really
> isn't any more than a list and web site.

Make that just a list.  Nobody seems to update the TCLUG site anymore.

I see that from the http://stats.real-time.com/www.mn-linux.org/ that
some processes actually fetch files from the web site, but it's
probably just robots looking to index it or inject some SPAM.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From SDALAN04 at smumn.edu  Fri Oct 30 18:51:12 2009
From: SDALAN04 at smumn.edu (SDALAN04 at smumn.edu)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:51:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WTB: Cisco Module - LinuxMeeting Saturday Oct. 31
Message-ID: <200910302351122388336f47@mail.smumn.edu>

Good Evening:

I plan on being at the Penguinsunbound install fest tomorrow to lend a hand I don't know if they're looking for more volunteers, maybe learn a thing or two.

But I'd like to take this opportunity to make an inquiry to the list, I am looking for a 10/100 Ethernet module for a Cisco Router 2620. I just recently dug this out of my closet and I am looking to use this for learning.

I am hoping one of you have what I need that you no longer use and in good working condition. Let me know what you'd like for it.

Thanks much!
Saul David A.


"Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" - Einstein

"Cuanta estupidez en tan poco cerebro!"



From adam.morris at redstargaming.net  Fri Oct 30 23:35:21 2009
From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:35:21 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a LUG
In-Reply-To: <20091030220632.GK27599@iris.iucha.org>
References: <254fef0f0910301115t73351bf7ta98749f36bf4bc81@mail.gmail.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLCEJPCPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<20091030220632.GK27599@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <20091031043520.GA17568@weegee.ath.cx>

Wow, I didn't mean to start a discussion on the metaphysics of TCLUG and
Penguins Unbound.  I just wanted to find a LUG in the Twin Cities to
attend.  This is definitely a group of Linux users. ;)

Regardless, thanks for all the responses and I hope to see some of you
tomorrow!

-Adam

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 05:06:32PM -0500, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 04:43:44PM -0500, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke
> > > <goeko at goecke-dolan.com> wrote:
> > > > I have always found the meeting *VERY* useful.  And was very
> > > > disappointed to see the TCLug stop having regular meeting.  And had for
> > > > years tried to find a somewhere to have a meeting.  Now I personally am
> > > > not a fan of meeting at the U of M, and I don't like to meet week
> > > > nights.  So with those constraints I felt it was easier to start my own
> > > > group, and chose to no go through the TCLug.  So that is how Penguins
> > > > Unbound came about.
> > > 
> > > I'm a little bit confused by this.  Given that "TCLUG" isn't really a
> > > formal entity and just the collection of its members, why is Penguins
> > > Unbound billed as a separate group if it's intended to basically just
> > > be LUG meetings at a time that works for you?  As I understand it,
> > > there isn't any process to "go through the TCLug" to organize things
> > > for - someone just decides to do something and runs with it.  Perhaps
> > > you could elaborate a little more on the separate PU branding?
> > > 
> > It's a polite formality... perhaps just diplomacy. Some in TCLUG
> > are/were somewhat possessive and may not understand that TCLUG really
> > isn't any more than a list and web site.
> 
> Make that just a list.  Nobody seems to update the TCLUG site anymore.
> 
> I see that from the http://stats.real-time.com/www.mn-linux.org/ that
> some processes actually fetch files from the web site, but it's
> probably just robots looking to index it or inject some SPAM.
> 
> Cheers,
> florin
> 
> -- 
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163



> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 00:26:53 2009
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:26:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest
Message-ID: <25f02f40910302226y6dc36feeg35166b7921ad40fe@mail.gmail.com>

Saturday what are the times ?


From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 02:26:43 2009
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 02:26:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest
In-Reply-To: <25f02f40910302226y6dc36feeg35166b7921ad40fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25f02f40910302226y6dc36feeg35166b7921ad40fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <254fef0f0910310026q70f78799h65e797181cc9d03c@mail.gmail.com>

9:00am - 4:00pm

Tony Yarusso
http://tonyyarusso.com/


From jpschewe at mtu.net  Sat Oct 31 08:04:42 2009
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:04:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare/virtualbox/esxi/xen/kvm
In-Reply-To: <254fef0f0910301353q47657da2l947bdc2bf022d238@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec20910301054u187cf1b2s7a33adf7a2b88b99@mail.gmail.com>	<4AEB3937.8030002@umn.edu>
	<254fef0f0910301353q47657da2l947bdc2bf022d238@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AEC35EA.2080009@mtu.net>

Tony Yarusso wrote:
> The handful of things I can add to that:
>
> For home users, a major consideration in virtualization systems is
> whether they require hardware support.  Xen, KVM, and I would guess
> ESX all require that your CPU have virtualization "extensions" /
> "flags".  In modern CPUs, almost all AMD ones have this (even in the
> budget lines), but Intel restricts it a bit more to their higher-end
> products.  The older the CPU, the higher end it had to be to have
> them, as the entry of this technology into the consumer market instead
> of pure datacenter rigs is relatively recent.  Due to this, my
> personal experience so far is only with VirtualBox at home, as I don't
> have that support and so needed this kind of product.  (I also used
> VMware Fusion briefly at work.)
>
> While I haven't had a chance to use them yet, I can point out some key
> things about KVM and Xen.  Both are bare-metal type hypervisors, like
> ESX. 
Given that Xen runs on a standard OS for the host, I wouldn't call it a
bare-metal hypervisor. One can make it essentially that by not running
anything else in the host, but you still can run a full OS in the host.

>  In addition to the usual x86 and x86_64, both also work on
> IA-64, and KVM also works on PowerPC and s390, if that's a concern for
> you.  Xen generally uses paravirtualization with a modified kernel,
> which can be a complication depending on your environment, although
> with hardware extensions in the CPU it can also run unmodified guests.
>  KVM uses unmodified guests.  Both allow for live migration.
>
>   

> From what I've seen, I would suggest that KVM would be the preferable
> option to Xen.  It offers slightly better guest performance, is built
> right into the mainline Linux kernel tree, I know it allows resource
> overcommitting and has GUI management tools (I believe Xen can also do
> overcommitting, but I'm not as sure), and it appears to be what major
> distributions are more interested in officially supported going
> forward.
>   
I've been using Xen for two years now at work and we've been rather
happy with it. We've standardized on opensuse as our Linux distribution
and that supports Xen out of the box. I have some friends at another
company that have been rather happy with Xen on Debian and my coworkers
out East use Xen on *BSD. I don't know if KVM can be hosted on other
OSs, but that is nice if you prefer a BSD to Linux or want to switch at
some point.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 08:21:07 2009
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:21:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Upgrading RAID questions
In-Reply-To: <82D8D798-4F7E-4503-83C9-2C4085B7FF78@cwis.biz>
References: <4AE9E60A.8060609@cwis.biz> <4AE9EA46.3000603@netscape.net>
	<4AE9EB30.502@cwis.biz> <4AE9F60A.7080705@netscape.net>
	<4AE9F738.7090602@cwis.biz> <4AE9FB95.9000508@netscape.net>
	<cac45c240910291632k4a2f58acrba6a69b2641acb26@mail.gmail.com>
	<82D8D798-4F7E-4503-83C9-2C4085B7FF78@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <2c6699da0910310621p17c83f5esd4df06172e70141d@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
> Yeah, ... uhm... that's a hardware expense that is not an option. I
> make <$5000/year with this work personally ?and $3000 for the unit is
> about 3x what I'd pay for the hardware...
>
> I already have the hardware I need, just need to know the best route
> to go to expand.

I think your best option is to swap out the drives one by one.  That
controller claims to support hot swap, so it should be trivial to
replace each disk, one by one.  You shouldn't encounter downtime, as
the RAID 5 parity will continue to host the data while you swap out
the drive.  Obviously do a little reading before attempting :-)

The other option is to go to a NAS or SAN type solution.   Sounds like
you have enough hardware that you could homebrew yourself a NAS/SAN
appliance with openfiler.  Then you could run both RAID configurations
and have uber-loads of disk space.

Brian


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Sat Oct 31 14:52:24 2009
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:52:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <200910311952.n9VJqOl04512@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: emac and ubuntu

Emac, 1.25ghz.  I think its got a gig of ram, a hard drive, it works, etc.  It has wifi no idea if that works in ubuntu yet.  Installing ubuntu ppc on it this afternoon real quick then it goes to the first person who gets ahold of me through email.  you'll need a keyboard and mouse.  This is for the mac only and a cd with ubuntu on it, no license for osx is included.

Seller Email address: scott at dier dot name

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From scott at dier.name  Sat Oct 31 15:05:16 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:05:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
In-Reply-To: <200910311952.n9VJqOl04512@crusader.real-time.com>
References: <200910311952.n9VJqOl04512@crusader.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60910311305l45e4815cwf3f922f6e36dc451@mail.gmail.com>

Already been spoken for (twice, yikes).

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 2:52 PM, TCLUG Classifieds
<webmaster at mn-linux.org> wrote:
> New TCLUG Classified Ad
>
> Category: Computer
>
> Type of Ad: For Free
>
> Subject: emac and ubuntu
>
> Emac, 1.25ghz. ?I think its got a gig of ram, a hard drive, it works, etc. ?It has wifi no idea if that works in ubuntu yet. ?Installing ubuntu ppc on it this afternoon real quick then it goes to the first person who gets ahold of me through email. ?you'll need a keyboard and mouse. ?This is for the mac only and a cd with ubuntu on it, no license for osx is included.
>
> Seller Email address: scott at dier dot name
>
> http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>


From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 16:48:42 2009
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:48:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg.conf and widescreen LCDs
Message-ID: <2c6699da0910311448k369fe4c8y8ae31974e3d25abd@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I'll admit I'm not much of a genius when it comes to modifying
xorg.conf.  Every time I get a newish piece of hardware I am reminded
of this.

My setup includes a Biostar board with an onboard nVidia Geforce 8200.
 My LCD is an Acer 22" with native resolution of 1400x1050.  Distro is
Debian Lenny, if that matters.

Whenever I get into a bind with my xorg.conf, I pop in Knoppix to let
its auto-configurator tool generate me a nice xorg.conf.  Then I take
and modify that for my system, as Knoppix doesn't always pick the best
settings, but they at least work and give me a template to start
hacking.

I want to add 1400x1050 as a resolution, but for some reason it just
won't accept it.

        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     16
                Modes "1600x1200" "1400x1050" "1280x1024" "1024x768"
"800x600" "640x480"

Defaults to 1600x1200 when I start X (duh).
If I remove the 1600x1200 line:

        SubSection "Display"
                Depth     16
                Modes "1400x1050" "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"

It defaults to 1280x1024.  I have Modelines configured for 1400x1050:

        ModeLine "1400x1050"  122.61  1400 1488 1640 1880  1050 1051
1054 1087  -HSync +Vsync
        ModeLine "1400x1050"  149.34  1400 1496 1648 1896  1050 1051
1054 1094  -HSync +Vsync
        ModeLine "1400x1050"  155.85  1400 1496 1648 1896  1050 1051
1054 1096  -HSync +Vsync
        ModeLine "1400x1050"  179.26  1400 1504 1656 1912  1050 1051
1054 1103  -HSync +Vsync
        ModeLine "1400x1050"  214.39  1400 1512 1664 1928  1050 1051
1054 1112  -HSync +Vsync

But no go.

Any ideas?  I've posted my xorg.conf on Pastebin:  http://pastebin.com/m4db91abc

Thanks,
Brian


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sat Oct 31 18:24:04 2009
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:24:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow transfers from Samba to Windows 7 and Vista
In-Reply-To: <57059E8C-A888-4CF3-AE3C-F64EA67642F2@cwis.biz>
References: <E91B3B6A-1F5D-4E00-A48E-86D7DF99780A@cwis.biz>
	<4A9CBC76.2000104@e-skinner.net>
	<cac10ddc0909010712v2c42c20cg3a5f53f03aecb3e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<E139BDEF-49F0-4648-8B3C-AE86D00EFEBC@cwis.biz>
	<57059E8C-A888-4CF3-AE3C-F64EA67642F2@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <30303D80-F40D-4342-B1A6-75DB9AB0814F@cwis.biz>

SOLUTION!

It wasn't a $15 NIC, but a $60 one (PCIe 1x) and disabling the onboard  
ethernet controller and I'm getting 20MB/sec right now.

Yay!

--
Ryan


On Oct 25, 2009, at 9:08 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Ok so I've done some of the changes... I fooled around with the  
> settings and I got bursts of 5-10MB from WWW and FTP but then slowed  
> down to 300KB/sec... so I am thinking a $15 NIC might be my next  
> purchase.
>
> My line now says:
>>> socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=16384 SO_SNDBUF=16384
>
> 16,384 is getting me a more consistent speed over 200KB/sec (I  
> tested many different options/powers of 2) so I'm sticking with it  
> for the time being.
>
> --
> Ryan
>
> On Sep 1, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> 1) Yes, but not from that machine. Other systems have not had  
>> issues and this particular computer downloads off 8Mb cable at full  
>> throttle in SMB over VPN, FTP, WWW and SMTP.
>>
>> 2) All connections are wired. CAT-5e and CAT-6 cables, used a  
>> crossover when testing direct transfer, too, but that cable has  
>> been lost since the the test in April (IIRC, I don't need a XO for  
>> gigabit anyway).
>>
>> I'm home sick today, and I might get the strength to get out of bed  
>> and sit at the computer soon. RDP is available but I am not that  
>> lazy ;-)
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Ryan
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2009, at 9:12 AM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>  
>>> wrote:
>>> > i would also check the duplex and auto-neg setting on the samba  
>>> server.
>>> > i would hard set them as well.
>>>
>>> Marc,
>>>
>>> You nailed the one thing that came to mind for me too - I've seen  
>>> mysterious/slow through-puts before and it's always been mis- 
>>> matched duplex settings for me.  Plus, first rule of debugging  
>>> stuff like this - "Start at the physical layer."
>>>
>>> Ryan,
>>>
>>> Have you tried other file-transfer protocols?  i.e., ftp or  
>>> copying a file using ssh or rsync?   If those were fast while SMB  
>>> was slow, then debugging service-configs would be the place to  
>>> look.  If those are slow too, look at the physical layer.  I know  
>>> you're using an airport extreme, but are you hooked up to it with  
>>> physical cables or is everything going wireless?  I suspect you  
>>> have wired connections but if not that does change things a bit.
>>>
>>> When you tried your direct connection that failed to work, were  
>>> you using a cross-over cable?
>>>
>>> While your description of your setup was pretty good, there are  
>>> still points of ambiguity - if the problem still exists after your  
>>> next round of debugging draw a picture of your network config.
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>  
>>> wrote:
>>> look at the "socket options" in smb.conf i have mine set as:
>>>
>>> socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
>>>
>>> i would also check the duplex and auto-neg setting on the samba  
>>> server.
>>> i would hard set them as well.
>>>
>>> my 2 cents.
>>>
>>> On 09/01/2009 12:50 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>> > I'm having painfully slow transfers from my FreeBSD 6.3 ia64  
>>> running
>>> > Samba 3.3 to Vista (between 1KiBps to 15KiBps) and also to  
>>> Windows 7
>>> > (50KiBps to 250 KiBps) and I've tried all the windows  
>>> corrections up
>>> > and down the board to no avail. I've finally given up on fixing
>>> > Windows, so it must be my Samba installation.
>>> >
>>> > I'm fairly certain I have not forgotten anything from the file  
>>> except
>>> > 4 fileshares that are unrelated to the issue. Archive is a 6.4TB  
>>> RAID5
>>> > (7x1TB drives) that runs blazingly fast in local as well as  
>>> internet
>>> > traffic.
>>> >
>>> > All components (Windows 7, Vista and FreeBSD) are connected  
>>> through an
>>> > Airport Extreme, but this slowness was experienced even on a basic
>>> > 10/100 switch so it is not solely a problem with the Airport. Also
>>> > direct connection did not work and Firewire support was dropped in
>>> > Vista so there was no alternate "ethernet" option available to me.
>>> > File transfers from my MacBook Pro perform as expected, with  
>>> speeds
>>> > ranging from 5MB/sec to 30MB/sec depending on the connect type.
>>> >
>>> > Any and all advice would be most appreciative.
>>> >
>>> > TIA,
>>> > Ryan
>>> >
>>> > smb.conf:
>>> > [global]
>>> >          dns proxy = no
>>> >          log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m
>>> >          load printers = yes
>>> >          server string = UnixBox2
>>> >          workgroup = WORKGROUP
>>> >          os level = 20
>>> >          encrypt passwords = yes
>>> >          security = share
>>> >          max log size = 50
>>> >
>>> > [homes]
>>> >     comment = Home Directories
>>> >     browseable = no
>>> >     writable = yes
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > [archive]
>>> >          delete readonly = yes
>>> >          writeable = yes
>>> >          path = /mount/archive
>>> >          only user = yes
>>> >          force directory mode = 755
>>> >          force group = wheel
>>> >          force create mode = 755
>>> >          force user = ryan
>>> >          public = yes
>>> >          allow hosts = 10.0.1.0/24
>>> >
>>> > [www]
>>> >          writeable = yes
>>> >          path = /usr/www
>>> >          force directory mode = 755
>>> >          force group = wheel
>>> >          force create mode = 755
>>> >          force user = ryan
>>> >          valid users = ryan
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 31 21:33:17 2009
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:33:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You Brian!
Message-ID: <1257042797.6362.4.camel@robert>

Brian,

Thanks for all of the work you did to create the very successful install
fest.

I met some great people, learned a lot, enjoyed David's talk and had a
lot of fun.

Please keep up the great work!

Thanks again,

Bob Wilkinson



From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Oct 31 22:38:54 2009
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:38:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg.conf and widescreen LCDs
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da0910311448k369fe4c8y8ae31974e3d25abd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c6699da0910311448k369fe4c8y8ae31974e3d25abd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910312231180.15827@dragon.yaron.org>

Hi there,

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Brian Wall wrote:

> Ok, I'll admit I'm not much of a genius when it comes to modifying
> xorg.conf.  Every time I get a newish piece of hardware I am reminded
> of this.

And I'll admit that my main desktop/s xorg.conf is an INSANE mess due to 
an INSANELY over-complicated setup (two video cards and three monitors 
with different resolutions/aspects) and the fact that it's technically the 
same xorg.conf that started life as xfree86.conf and has just been taken 
apart and put together with chewing gum and toothpicks as I've upgraded my 
system over the past DECADE. No "auto config" has really ever been able to 
figure it out EXACTLY right.


That said, I've found that on simple, single-monitor setups with just a 
plain ol' USB mouse/keyboard, all you REALLY need in anything even 
resembling a modern Linux distro is this:

### BEGIN xorg.conf ####################

Section "Device"
 	Identifier	"Configured Video Device"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
 	Identifier	"Configured Monitor"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
 	Identifier	"Default Screen"
 	Monitor		"Configured Monitor"
 	Device		"Configured Video Device"
EndSection

### END xorg.conf #################

It scares me a lot, but I've had that just WORK on machines with regular 
aspects (1280x1024 and 1600x1200) and widescreen (1400x1050 and 1920x1080) 
and whatever the heck aspect 1366x768 is.

So my advice is try the super super super simple setup and see if that 
works. (:



-Yaron

--


From scott at dier.name  Sat Oct 31 22:48:16 2009
From: scott at dier.name (Scott Dier)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:48:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xorg.conf and widescreen LCDs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0910312231180.15827@dragon.yaron.org>
References: <2c6699da0910311448k369fe4c8y8ae31974e3d25abd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0910312231180.15827@dragon.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <51d20ae60910312048x6a2df600od7a0021faf2b5766@mail.gmail.com>

I've gone one step further and tried removing the file completely and
I think its actually worked on some setups (!).

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Brian Wall wrote:
>
>> Ok, I'll admit I'm not much of a genius when it comes to modifying
>> xorg.conf. ?Every time I get a newish piece of hardware I am reminded
>> of this.
>
> And I'll admit that my main desktop/s xorg.conf is an INSANE mess due to
> an INSANELY over-complicated setup (two video cards and three monitors
> with different resolutions/aspects) and the fact that it's technically the
> same xorg.conf that started life as xfree86.conf and has just been taken
> apart and put together with chewing gum and toothpicks as I've upgraded my
> system over the past DECADE. No "auto config" has really ever been able to
> figure it out EXACTLY right.
>
>
> That said, I've found that on simple, single-monitor setups with just a
> plain ol' USB mouse/keyboard, all you REALLY need in anything even
> resembling a modern Linux distro is this:
>
> ### BEGIN xorg.conf ####################
>
> Section "Device"
> ? ? ? ?Identifier ? ? ?"Configured Video Device"
> EndSection
>
> Section "Monitor"
> ? ? ? ?Identifier ? ? ?"Configured Monitor"
> EndSection
>
> Section "Screen"
> ? ? ? ?Identifier ? ? ?"Default Screen"
> ? ? ? ?Monitor ? ? ? ? "Configured Monitor"
> ? ? ? ?Device ? ? ? ? ?"Configured Video Device"
> EndSection
>
> ### END xorg.conf #################
>
> It scares me a lot, but I've had that just WORK on machines with regular
> aspects (1280x1024 and 1600x1200) and widescreen (1400x1050 and 1920x1080)
> and whatever the heck aspect 1366x768 is.
>
> So my advice is try the super super super simple setup and see if that
> works. (:
>
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Scott Dier <scott at dier.name>


From rclarksean at arvig.net  Fri Oct 30 12:23:21 2009
From: rclarksean at arvig.net (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:23:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux
In-Reply-To: <4AEB1532.4070304@umn.edu>
References: <230489.86631.qm@web53802.mail.re2.yahoo.com><63874609a6067385a9a63159f3c31ad9.squirrel@flyballdogs.com>
	<4AEB1532.4070304@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <AB99974582884AF08229DC0815355051@dualasus>

I echo the comments below on ESXi.  I am only running the 32bit version at present, but I run an old Windows 2000 OS and Fedora Core 5 on it without any problems ? all very seamless.  I would assume the same is true with the 64 bit versions.

 

Performance is very good.  At present, I am running it on a dual processor Xeon box from Dell.  Looking at a quad Xeon processor 64 bit system as my next upgrade.

 

Randy

 

  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Elvedin Trnjanin
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 11:33 AM
To: Kathryn Hogg
Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] VMWare 2.0.2 on Linux

 

Kathryn Hogg wrote: 

Wayne Johnson wrote:
  

Anyone tried VMWare Server 2.0.2?  I???ve tried it on my new AMD64 quad
core and had lots of problems. Just wondering if it's me or the software.
    

 
I unfortunately have to do the bulk of my development work in Windows even
though its all J2EE.  So I keep linux as my host OS and run XP in virtual
machine for the coding/testing.
 
I used to use vmware server but it seemed like their drivers would always
fail to compile and I would get some strange kernel panics.  I've switched
over to virtualbox.  It runs smoother, I've yet to have a problem with a
kernel upgrade, and the seamless mode is great.
 
  

Have you considered running ESXi and all of the operating systems you need on top of it? Compatibility (apart from hardware) should not be an issue in such a setup and performance would be better if you require multiple virtual machines running at the same time. If you intermittently need a few virtual machines, then Virtualbox is certainly a great solution as I use it too.

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From tclug.org at cyberians.net  Fri Oct 30 20:21:29 2009
From: tclug.org at cyberians.net (tclug.org at cyberians.net)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:21:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] VMWare/virtualbox/esxi/xen/kvm
Message-ID: <e2befdafe064f59d2d090aaeab7c2e78@cyberians.com>

I went to the 'garage-less sale' advertised in this list earlier this
summer, and the company hosting it uses an open-source product called
ProxMox

http://www.proxmox.com/cms_proxmox/en/products/proxmox-ve/proxmox-ve-startseite.html

I was pretty impressed with what it could do, now just wish I had the
hardware to try the live-migration of a VM capabilities with it.
Anyone else have experience with this product?


Jonah