From chris at cb1inc.com  Mon Feb  1 03:17:36 2010
From: chris at cb1inc.com (Chris Barber)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:17:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ray Stepping?
In-Reply-To: <4B666C49.3060501@gmail.com>
References: <4B666C49.3060501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B669C30.1040602@cb1inc.com>

Do you mean ray marching? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_ray_casting

*

*
On 1/31/10 11:53 PM, Ryan Hanson wrote:
> To the people who went to the penguins unbound thingy on Saturday.
> I'm trying to figure out the other alternative to Ray Tracing that used
> stepping.
>
> I tried searching for Ray Stepping but I didn't find anything.
>
> Any help?
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>    
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From nesius at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 09:59:18 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:59:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ray Stepping?
In-Reply-To: <4B669C30.1040602@cb1inc.com>
References: <4B666C49.3060501@gmail.com> <4B669C30.1040602@cb1inc.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002010759i55a0c1e7oe520aa4609a7e5c0@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps he really is looking for Ray Casting (in the context of surfaces,
versus volumes) if he's looking for an alternative to Ray Tracing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_casting

Excerpt:
Ray casting is not a synonym for ray
tracing<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_%28graphics%29>,
but can be thought of as an abridged, and significantly faster, version of
the ray tracing algorithm. Both are image
order<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_and_object_order_rendering>algorithms
used in computer
graphics <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_graphics> to
render<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_%28computer_graphics%29>three
dimensional scenes to two dimensional screens by following
rays <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_%28optics%29> of
light<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light>from the
eye <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projective_geometry> of the observer to a
light source. Ray casting does not compute the new direction a ray of light
might take after intersecting a surface on its way from the eye to the
source of light. This eliminates the possibility of accurately rendering
reflections <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_%28physics%29>,
refractions <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractions>, or the natural
falloff of shadows <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow>; however all of
these elements can be faked to a degree, by creative use of
texture<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texture_%28computer_graphics%29>maps
or other methods. The high speed of calculation made ray casting a
handy rendering method in early real-time 3D video games.


-Rob


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:17 AM, Chris Barber <chris at cb1inc.com> wrote:

>  Do you mean ray marching? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_ray_casting
>
> *
>
> *
> On 1/31/10 11:53 PM, Ryan Hanson wrote:
>
> To the people who went to the penguins unbound thingy on Saturday.
> I'm trying to figure out the other alternative to Ray Tracing that used
> stepping.
>
> I tried searching for Ray Stepping but I didn't find anything.
>
> Any help?
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Mon Feb  1 12:58:17 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux user)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:58:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] antiX Linux
Message-ID: <20100201125817.0258b1ad.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

It was great to meet so many of you at the Penguins Unbound meeting on Saturday.

Check out my Linux page at http://www.jasonhsu.com/linux.html .  I have included instructions for installing and configuring antiX Linux and other distros.

As I mentioned there, antiX Linux is now my main distro.  It should be its own distro instead of just another version of MEPIS.  It should be one of the top ten distros.  Here are the reasons I like it:
1.  Like Puppy Linux and unlike Debian and Ubuntu, antiX installs in just a few minutes.  Debian takes a long time to install - as long as Windows does.  Of course, the time you need to install Debian depends on the speed of your Internet connection.
2.  Like Puppy Linux and unlike Ubuntu, antiX is lightweight and fast.  Even on an 11-year old laptop (what we're using for an IEEE study group called Project Phoenix) with only 256 MB of RAM and a 500 MHz processor, antiX is fast.  The very same computer struggled with Windows XP and the full Ubuntu and Xubuntu installations.  (This computer originally had Windows 98, was "upgraded" to Windows 2000, and "upgraded" again to Windows XP.  When people talk about "upgrading" an OS, they sure aren't referring to speed.)
3.  Like Puppy Linux and unlike Debian, antiX is user-friendly.  Using Puppy Linux has really spoiled me, as it conditioned me to expect all other distros to install and run quickly and be user-friendly.  I might get hate mail from Debian fans, but I find Debian to be too difficult to configure properly.  I have also tried a minimal Ubuntu installation (start off with the command-line installation and add packages), but it's not as user-friendly as the full installation.  I just never liked the idea of having to download a package just to be able to shut down properly, and I like the idea of having all the basic stuff up and running quickly.
4.  Unlike Puppy Linux, antiX Linux is compatible with the Debian repository.  Puppy Linux is working on compatibility with the Debian repository, but it's not ready for prime time.  Right now, Puppy Linux is great for the average person on the street but not for those who need the more specialized applications (like programming microcontrollers) that only the larger repositories provide.  antiX Linux is the lightest and most user-friendly distro with Debian repository compatibility.

In other words, antiX Linux is the best of both worlds - the speed and ease of use of Puppy Linux but with the superior repository of Debian/Ubuntu.

I recommend antiX Linux for the following groups:
1.  Those on old, power-challenged computers who need something lightweight but also need specialized software packages
2.  Ubuntu users using marginal computers: Ubuntu has a history of putting more bloat into its newer versions while terminating support for its older versions.  As a result, many users get cut off, because their computers can't cut the mustard.  Ubuntu has its merits, but operation on older, less powerful computers is not one of them.  I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu for those with under 512 MB of RAM.  I bet that in a few short years, even 1 GB of RAM will be marginal for Ubuntu.
3.  Those who can't configure Debian but don't have enough RAM and processor speed for fast Ubuntu operation.

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From hansonry at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 19:58:44 2010
From: hansonry at gmail.com (Ryan Hanson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:58:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ray Stepping?
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc1002010759i55a0c1e7oe520aa4609a7e5c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B666C49.3060501@gmail.com> <4B669C30.1040602@cb1inc.com>
	<cac10ddc1002010759i55a0c1e7oe520aa4609a7e5c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7c112d51002011758v2aa8d352gb2e03e5bc2fcf576@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the quick replies!
Sadly its not ray casting or ray tracing.
Ray Marching sounds close to what I was looking for. Although the wiki
entry said it was a slow technique, and, as I understand it, it can be
done in real time.

Ill look more into the ray marching thing.
Thanks again!
~Ryan

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:59 AM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps he really is looking for Ray Casting (in the context of surfaces,
> versus volumes) if he's looking for an alternative to Ray Tracing.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_casting
>
> Excerpt:
> Ray casting is not a synonym for ray tracing, but can be thought of as an
> abridged, and significantly faster, version of the ray tracing algorithm.
> Both are image order algorithms used in computer graphics to render three
> dimensional scenes to two dimensional screens by following rays of light
> from the eye of the observer to a light source. Ray casting does not compute
> the new direction a ray of light might take after intersecting a surface on
> its way from the eye to the source of light. This eliminates the possibility
> of accurately rendering reflections, refractions, or the natural falloff of
> shadows; however all of these elements can be faked to a degree, by creative
> use of texture maps or other methods. The high speed of calculation made ray
> casting a handy rendering method in early real-time 3D video games.
>
>
> -Rob
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:17 AM, Chris Barber <chris at cb1inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Do you mean ray marching? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_ray_casting
>>
>>
>> On 1/31/10 11:53 PM, Ryan Hanson wrote:
>>
>> To the people who went to the penguins unbound thingy on Saturday.
>> I'm trying to figure out the other alternative to Ray Tracing that used
>> stepping.
>>
>> I tried searching for Ray Stepping but I didn't find anything.
>>
>> Any help?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


From dniesen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 08:51:22 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:51:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and LDAP/AD
	authentication
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking to set up a mail server for internal use only with a webmail
interface.  I'm setting this up in an Active Directory environment so having
LDAP/AD authentication would be ideal.

A simple setup/configuration would be great but configuring a few packages
to work together for this solution would be fine, too.  AtMail's commercial
offering looked like a nice offering but a little pricey (starting at $500)
when I'd be surprised if I couldn't get the job done with open source tools.

Is there anybody using anything or know of anything I should check out?

Thanks!

-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Tue Feb  2 08:57:49 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:57:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and
	LDAP/AD	authentication
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B683D6D.8020905@me.com>

Do you have a throwaway computer? A Linux distribution with Postfix, 
Apache, PHP and Squirrelmail would probably be right up your alley.

I have all 4 but not running through LDAP-AD. And AD isn't that 
difficult to authenticate against (doing it on intranet web login at my 
day job).

Donovan wrote:
> I'm looking to set up a mail server for internal use only with a 
> webmail interface.  I'm setting this up in an Active Directory 
> environment so having LDAP/AD authentication would be ideal. 
>
> A simple setup/configuration would be great but configuring a few 
> packages to work together for this solution would be fine, too. 
>  AtMail's commercial offering looked like a nice offering but a little 
> pricey (starting at $500) when I'd be surprised if I couldn't get the 
> job done with open source tools.
>
> Is there anybody using anything or know of anything I should check out?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- 
> Donovan Niesen
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Tue Feb  2 09:17:26 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:17:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and
	LDAP/AD	authentication
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B684206.9070006@netscape.net>

On 2/2/2010 8:51 AM, Donovan wrote:
> I'm looking to set up a mail server for internal use only with a webmail
> interface.  I'm setting this up in an Active Directory environment so
> having LDAP/AD authentication would be ideal.

Most mail servers can be setup to Auth using ldap/AD.  There are tons of 
docs available depending upon your flavor of mail server.

In the past I have used the full blown www.courrier-mta.org mta server, 
and setup the AUTH to our AD using LDAP.  It also has a nice webmail 
included.

I have also setup postfix to Auth against AD/LDAP, with either courier 
imap or dovecoat imap (courier imap using ldap & dovecoat using the 
built in NTLM). And on top of this I have been happy with www.zarafa.com 
webmail features.  Zarafa looks & feels like Exchange OWA, but works 
well on all browsers.  I like it.

Bottom line is most(if not all) Linux mail server setups can auth using 
ldap against AD (with a little tinkering).  If you unfamiliar with ldap 
& ad there is a lot of basic info in the web that will help you with the 
basic minimum to help you get on your way.

I think another approach to this (although I have never tried myself) 
would be using Sambas winbind/Pam-based auth technique on the mail 
server box, then auth the mail users that way.  This could be a can of 
worms left unopened, but thought I'd mention it.

Good Luck.

B-o-B




>
> A simple setup/configuration would be great but configuring a few
> packages to work together for this solution would be fine, too.
>   AtMail's commercial offering looked like a nice offering but a little
> pricey (starting at $500) when I'd be surprised if I couldn't get the
> job done with open source tools.
>
> Is there anybody using anything or know of anything I should check out?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Tue Feb  2 10:52:26 2010
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:52:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and LDAP/AD
	authentication
References: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0000091071@mail.penguinpackets.com>

?  
>  Tue Feb 02 2010 08:51:22 AM CST from  "Donovan" <dniesen at gmail.com> 
>Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and LDAP/AD
>authentication
>
>    I'm looking to set up a mail server for internal use only with a webmail
>interface. ?I'm setting this up in an Active Directory environment so having
>LDAP/AD authentication would be ideal.
>
>  
>
>
>  
>
>
>  I have not tried the AD / LDAP integration, but Citadel seems to filt the
>bill? - citadel.org
>
>  Debian packages (although I just install the dependant libs and do a
>scripted easy installer that builds everything for you and allows you to keep
>up to date with mainline releases quickly).? Web interface (with some
>groupware functionality), as well as AD authentication.? I belive they also
>have a vm build that you can just kick the tires with (although I am not sure
>how old it is).
>
>  
>
>
>  The "easy install" is here (just get the deps and lib packages first)..
>
>
> 
>http://www.citadel.org/doku.php/installation:easyinstall:easyinstall?s=easy
>
>
>  
>
>
>  Auth modes supported are explained here:
>
>
>  http://www.citadel.org/doku.php/faq:installation:authmodes?s=ldap
>
>  
>
>
>  But wait!? Thats not all!? You also get discussion areas (which can be
>subscribed to as a mailing list), a Wiki, an XMPP server, and the ability to
>share content between Citadel nodes.
>
>  
>
>
>  I know that last bit was not what you were asking, but it makes up for the
>the design of the web interface :-)
>
>  
>
>
>  Kelly
>
>
>  
>
>
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:11:58 2010
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:11:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and LDAP/AD
	authentication
In-Reply-To: <0000091071@mail.penguinpackets.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
	<0000091071@mail.penguinpackets.com>
Message-ID: <cac45c241002021011n6303438td3bdb7e6a8b538f8@mail.gmail.com>

As long as your daemons are PAM aware, winbind and PAM makes configuring AD
authentication easy.

You'll have to install and configure Samba, join the domain, test, edit
nssswitch.conf and the PAM configuration files for your daemons, and you
should be off and running.

Also worth looking into is the Kerberized versions of your daemons. When you
do all of the above you're setting up Kerberos authentication anyway, so the
next logical step is to add Kerberized services and get full SSO
authentication. You'll typically have to add the SPNs to AD using ADSI Edit
or the setspn command line tool on windows to get your Kerberized services
to work.

If you won't be using Kerberized daemons, you should implement a SSL/TLS
only policy on any services using AD authentication. (HTTP, IMAP, POP3,
SMTP)


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:15:57 2010
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:15:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and LDAP/AD
	authentication
In-Reply-To: <cac45c241002021011n6303438td3bdb7e6a8b538f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
	<0000091071@mail.penguinpackets.com>
	<cac45c241002021011n6303438td3bdb7e6a8b538f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac45c241002021015h7d2448f5oe26102413ca99bfb@mail.gmail.com>

Forgot to mention:

Read Chapter 6, 24, 28 and 29 in the Offical Samba HOWTO collection. That
should cover everything I mentioned in my previous email. :)

http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From nesius at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:43:50 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:43:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Internal mail server w/ webmail and LDAP/AD
	authentication
In-Reply-To: <cac45c241002021015h7d2448f5oe26102413ca99bfb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002020651r7a2e015eq8b940490d3a66468@mail.gmail.com>
	<0000091071@mail.penguinpackets.com>
	<cac45c241002021011n6303438td3bdb7e6a8b538f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac45c241002021015h7d2448f5oe26102413ca99bfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002021043l17902004rb1419af9b8b1b4a4@mail.gmail.com>

There's also the Open Likewise libraries/tool-chains for AD integration.

-Rob


On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com>wrote:

> Forgot to mention:
>
> Read Chapter 6, 24, 28 and 29 in the Offical Samba HOWTO collection. That
> should cover everything I mentioned in my previous email. :)
>
> http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/
>
>
> --
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Feb  2 21:42:00 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux user)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:42:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
Message-ID: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

When, why, and how did you start using Linux?

I started using Linux 3 years ago.  The reasons I started using Linux were:
1.  I had heard about how Windows was full of security holes.  It also seemed that security threats only grew over time.
2.  I had heard that support for Windows 98 (my main OS at the time) was about to be terminated and that this was even more vulnerable to security threats than Windows XP.  I wasn't about to "upgrade" my main computer from Windows 98 due to the expense and trouble of doing so.
3.  I heard that Windows Vista was nasty - a quantum leap forward in bloatware that was slow even on many NEW computers.  I also heard that Vista didn't work with many items of older hardware like printers, scanners, etc.
4.  I'm cheap.  My attitude towards computers can be summed up by, "If it ain't broke, don't replace it."  I didn't think Windows XP was that much better than 98 or 98 that much better than 95.  But I noticed that it took more RAM, hard drive space, processor power, etc. to do exactly the same things we had done 10 years earlier.  At the same time, I noticed that there weren't many killer apps (like the Internet in the 1990s), so I felt that we should be able to keep using the same computer for 5-10 years.
5.  I'm green.  I thought it was scandalous that so many computers get trashed each year NOT because some critical component failed but because the OS failed or was declared obsolete.  To me, the only good reason to get rid of a computer is because it breaks and cannot be repaired.

So I bought a used IBM NetVista desktop computer (256 MB of RAM, 1 GHz processor, 20 GB hard drive, built in 2001, originally equipped with Windows 2000, which had been removed for sale) for $50 from a local used computer dealer.  I also bought a KVM switch so I could switch between the older computer and the newer one.  I used this newer used computer for going online and used the old computer with Windows 98 strictly offline.  (I still have and use this old computer, which I bought new in 2000.  It had a 466 MHz processor and a 4.3 GB hard drive.  It originally had just 128 MB of RAM, but I upgraded it to 384 MB of RAM.  I just recently replaced the Windows 98 setup with Linux.)

Over the last 3 years, I have been doing more and more stuff in Linux and less and less in Windows.  My first distro was Fedora Core 1, because the CD came with the book _Linux For Non-Geeks_.  Then I used Damn Small Linux, Puppy Linux, and Ubuntu.  (I dabbled with Debian but couldn't get it configured properly.)  I recently switched to antiX Linux.  As I mentioned before, it's the most lightweight and user-friendly distro with more than 20,000 programs in the repository due to the Debian repository compatibility.  It's the best of both worlds.

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Feb  2 22:00:00 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux user)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:00:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Why I recommend Puppy Linux for a first distro
Message-ID: <20100202220000.6f4707a8.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I recommend Puppy Linux for a newbie's first distro.  My reasons:
1.  It's user-friendly.  As I found when I tried Debian, Puppy Linux is so user-friendly that it spoiled me into expecting other distros to be as easy to use.  My only gripe is that even the single-boot installation process requires manually editing the menu.lst file when all of the other distros I've tried took care of that automatically.  This is the one area where Puppy Linux could learn from antiX Linux.
2.  It installs in just a few minutes.  On the other hand, Fedora Core 1, Debian, and Ubuntu take a long time to install.
3.  It's lightweight - runs entirely from RAM on only 256 MB.  The only lighter distro I've used is Damn Small Linux.  I think Damn Small Linux skimps on many things in order to limit its size to 50 MB.  In DSL, I could only get Flash 7 to work, and that required a rather complex installation procedure.  Flash 9 was so unstable that the browser crashed within a few seconds.  I also found the printer installation process to be difficult and unintuitive.  I think 256 MB is marginal for Ubuntu.  Starting off with a command-line installation and adding packages allows for a more lightweight operation, but then Ubuntu isn't as user-friendly.  Ubuntu's hardware requirements keep escalating, and the earlier and lighter versions keep getting terminated, so a group of low-end users get cut off each year.  You can probably forget about running the latest version of Fedora with only 256 MB of RAM.
4.  If you don't need any specialized applications, Puppy Linux's small repository isn't an issue.  For the average person on the street (who just does web browsing, email, word processing, spreadsheets, and presentations), Puppy Linux is perfect.  That said, Puppy Linux is working on Debian compatibility.  I'd love to see a rivalry between Puppy Linux and antiX Linux, as the users of both as well as others using old computers would all win, and only Microsoft would lose.

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From kris.browne at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 00:40:58 2010
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:40:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <8255989d1002022240n1bc49390oc741ee0eabb3d662@mail.gmail.com>

When, why, and how did you start using Linux?

Wow... Let's see here. I know when I started using Linux Slackware 1 was
current, so that puts it around 1993. At the time, I was looking for
something with more current development than the Minix I had been using
before that.

Minix had spoiled me with virtual consoles, command line completion, and a
ton of other things which DOS couldn't even think to deliver at the time.
However, Andy Tanenbaum famously had no desire to expand it to a general
purpose system. BSD was still shackled by ATT, so Linux became the next
logical choice.

Around 1994 I was hosting a BBS. Desqview was a royal pain to use, and there
were no other real useful DOS mutltaskers. In the end, I ran DOSemu on top
of Linux to host multiple nodes of my BBS, which ended up using less
overhead and provided better performance than Deskview did.

For the past nearly 20 years, my desktop systems have been almost
exclusively Unix systems of some sort, and most of that has been on
Slackware or some other Linux flavor.


Kris Browne
kris.browne at gmail.com
612-353-6969
612-408-4431
http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

"the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have
to write." - Steve Jobs



On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 21:42, Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com
> wrote:

> When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
>
> I started using Linux 3 years ago.  The reasons I started using Linux were:
> 1.  I had heard about how Windows was full of security holes.  It also
> seemed that security threats only grew over time.
> 2.  I had heard that support for Windows 98 (my main OS at the time) was
> about to be terminated and that this was even more vulnerable to security
> threats than Windows XP.  I wasn't about to "upgrade" my main computer from
> Windows 98 due to the expense and trouble of doing so.
> 3.  I heard that Windows Vista was nasty - a quantum leap forward in
> bloatware that was slow even on many NEW computers.  I also heard that Vista
> didn't work with many items of older hardware like printers, scanners, etc.
> 4.  I'm cheap.  My attitude towards computers can be summed up by, "If it
> ain't broke, don't replace it."  I didn't think Windows XP was that much
> better than 98 or 98 that much better than 95.  But I noticed that it took
> more RAM, hard drive space, processor power, etc. to do exactly the same
> things we had done 10 years earlier.  At the same time, I noticed that there
> weren't many killer apps (like the Internet in the 1990s), so I felt that we
> should be able to keep using the same computer for 5-10 years.
> 5.  I'm green.  I thought it was scandalous that so many computers get
> trashed each year NOT because some critical component failed but because the
> OS failed or was declared obsolete.  To me, the only good reason to get rid
> of a computer is because it breaks and cannot be repaired.
>
> So I bought a used IBM NetVista desktop computer (256 MB of RAM, 1 GHz
> processor, 20 GB hard drive, built in 2001, originally equipped with Windows
> 2000, which had been removed for sale) for $50 from a local used computer
> dealer.  I also bought a KVM switch so I could switch between the older
> computer and the newer one.  I used this newer used computer for going
> online and used the old computer with Windows 98 strictly offline.  (I still
> have and use this old computer, which I bought new in 2000.  It had a 466
> MHz processor and a 4.3 GB hard drive.  It originally had just 128 MB of
> RAM, but I upgraded it to 384 MB of RAM.  I just recently replaced the
> Windows 98 setup with Linux.)
>
> Over the last 3 years, I have been doing more and more stuff in Linux and
> less and less in Windows.  My first distro was Fedora Core 1, because the CD
> came with the book _Linux For Non-Geeks_.  Then I used Damn Small Linux,
> Puppy Linux, and Ubuntu.  (I dabbled with Debian but couldn't get it
> configured properly.)  I recently switched to antiX Linux.  As I mentioned
> before, it's the most lightweight and user-friendly distro with more than
> 20,000 programs in the repository due to the Debian repository
> compatibility.  It's the best of both worlds.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From asim at cognizo.com  Wed Feb  3 01:19:34 2010
From: asim at cognizo.com (Asim Baig)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:19:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <8255989d1002022240n1bc49390oc741ee0eabb3d662@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<8255989d1002022240n1bc49390oc741ee0eabb3d662@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B692386.90209@cognizo.com>

I can't remember exactly when I first used Linux. Probably around 
1993-94 when it was a 2 floppy set, but reading your email lead me to 
curiously search for my name on usenet, and I was surprised to find my 
very first time I posted something on the Internets....While I started 
using the Internet (downloads from ftp sites and irc mostly) in fall 
1991, it was spring 1992 when I first posted online...(not BBS, but the 
Internets)


http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.pakistan/browse_thread/thread/b9556e7bc1992973/c61684bd6fbdc825?q=asim+beg#c61684bd6fbdc825

so Linux 1993/94?
Internet Sep 1991 (mostly Usenet, ftp, irc)
First post Apr 1992


*Asim Baig*
Cognizo Technologies
6950 France Ave S, Suite 218
Edina, MN 55435
w: (952) 955-6052 x101
c: (612) 382-7474
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meet the Cognizo Team <http://www.cognizo.com/>


Kris Browne wrote:
> When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
>
> Wow... Let's see here. I know when I started using Linux Slackware 1 
> was current, so that puts it around 1993. At the time, I was looking 
> for something with more current development than the Minix I had been 
> using before that.
>
> Minix had spoiled me with virtual consoles, command line completion, 
> and a ton of other things which DOS couldn't even think to deliver at 
> the time. However, Andy Tanenbaum famously had no desire to expand it 
> to a general purpose system. BSD was still shackled by ATT, so Linux 
> became the next logical choice.
>
> Around 1994 I was hosting a BBS. Desqview was a royal pain to use, and 
> there were no other real useful DOS mutltaskers. In the end, I ran 
> DOSemu on top of Linux to host multiple nodes of my BBS, which ended 
> up using less overhead and provided better performance than Deskview did.
>
> For the past nearly 20 years, my desktop systems have been almost 
> exclusively Unix systems of some sort, and most of that has been on 
> Slackware or some other Linux flavor.
>
>
> Kris Browne
> kris.browne at gmail.com <mailto:kris.browne at gmail.com>
> 612-353-6969
> 612-408-4431
> http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne
>
> "the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't 
> have to write." - Steve Jobs
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 21:42, Jason Hsu, Linux user 
> <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com <mailto:jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>> wrote:
>
>     When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
>
>     I started using Linux 3 years ago.  The reasons I started using
>     Linux were:
>     1.  I had heard about how Windows was full of security holes.  It
>     also seemed that security threats only grew over time.
>     2.  I had heard that support for Windows 98 (my main OS at the
>     time) was about to be terminated and that this was even more
>     vulnerable to security threats than Windows XP.  I wasn't about to
>     "upgrade" my main computer from Windows 98 due to the expense and
>     trouble of doing so.
>     3.  I heard that Windows Vista was nasty - a quantum leap forward
>     in bloatware that was slow even on many NEW computers.  I also
>     heard that Vista didn't work with many items of older hardware
>     like printers, scanners, etc.
>     4.  I'm cheap.  My attitude towards computers can be summed up by,
>     "If it ain't broke, don't replace it."  I didn't think Windows XP
>     was that much better than 98 or 98 that much better than 95.  But
>     I noticed that it took more RAM, hard drive space, processor
>     power, etc. to do exactly the same things we had done 10 years
>     earlier.  At the same time, I noticed that there weren't many
>     killer apps (like the Internet in the 1990s), so I felt that we
>     should be able to keep using the same computer for 5-10 years.
>     5.  I'm green.  I thought it was scandalous that so many computers
>     get trashed each year NOT because some critical component failed
>     but because the OS failed or was declared obsolete.  To me, the
>     only good reason to get rid of a computer is because it breaks and
>     cannot be repaired.
>
>     So I bought a used IBM NetVista desktop computer (256 MB of RAM, 1
>     GHz processor, 20 GB hard drive, built in 2001, originally
>     equipped with Windows 2000, which had been removed for sale) for
>     $50 from a local used computer dealer.  I also bought a KVM switch
>     so I could switch between the older computer and the newer one.  I
>     used this newer used computer for going online and used the old
>     computer with Windows 98 strictly offline.  (I still have and use
>     this old computer, which I bought new in 2000.  It had a 466 MHz
>     processor and a 4.3 GB hard drive.  It originally had just 128 MB
>     of RAM, but I upgraded it to 384 MB of RAM.  I just recently
>     replaced the Windows 98 setup with Linux.)
>
>     Over the last 3 years, I have been doing more and more stuff in
>     Linux and less and less in Windows.  My first distro was Fedora
>     Core 1, because the CD came with the book _Linux For Non-Geeks_.
>      Then I used Damn Small Linux, Puppy Linux, and Ubuntu.  (I
>     dabbled with Debian but couldn't get it configured properly.)  I
>     recently switched to antiX Linux.  As I mentioned before, it's the
>     most lightweight and user-friendly distro with more than 20,000
>     programs in the repository due to the Debian repository
>     compatibility.  It's the best of both worlds.
>
>     --
>     Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com
>     <mailto:jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   
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From chrome at real-time.com  Wed Feb  3 08:14:54 2010
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:14:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>;
	from jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com on Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 09:42:00PM
	-0600
References: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <20100203081454.E18676@real-time.com>

I first heard about Linux in 1995 or so, when I saw a guy on the bus at
college with what I now know to be a Slackware book in his hand. I asked him
"What's that?" He said "It's Linux." I said "What's Linux?"

It sounded really interesting, but I only owned one computer at the time and
wasn't going to risk my data with a dual-install system. So it had to wait
until I was out of college and at a job where I put together a system from
leftover parts and installed Red Hat 5.2 on it. I immediately loved it
because:

* It didn't treat me like I was an idiot.
* It didn't crash once a day or more!
* I could talk to my computer in complete sentences (command line) instead
  of using a point-and-grunt interface.
* The manual was good and helpful. (Yes, I got the company to buy the boxed
  set).
* RH5.2 was the first version that supported different languages in the
  installer. Their test language was 'redneck'. So the installer would ask
  questions like:
	 Whut kind of CD-ROM dew yew have?
	 [ ] SCSI CD-ROM
	 [X] Crappy CD-ROM

	Would you like to floormat yer hard drive?

	Congratupations yew are dun!

  So here was an OS that could laugh at itself! I loved it.

At home I put Debian on a machine I'd built from parts bought at government
auction.  Not having a network card for it, I sneakerneted all the packages
over to it on floppies. Learned a bit about tarballs and cat in the process. 

I still wasn't willing to switch to Linux, primarily because my preferred
mail/newsreader was Agent, which wasn't available on Linux. However,
eventually my Windows machine got loaded with viruses and installed Red Hat
6.0 on it. It was an old and slow machine tho (Cyrix 166/32MB RAM) and when
I had the money I got a shiny new 1.1GHz machine and installed Debian on it.

9+ years later, I'm still using that same box for my home workstation. The
disk drives have been replaced several times over tho. (Usually without too
much data loss). The fundamental problem now is that the Web is so
flash-heavy these days that a 1.1GHz single-core machine is just not up to
the task. 

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com


From auditodd at comcast.net  Wed Feb  3 10:03:23 2010
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:03:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <1302050333.2322671265213003378.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Hsu, Linux user"
When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
----------------------------------
2001 - Smoothwall on an old used IBM desktop with 200Mhz CPU and 128MB of RAM I got free from a buddy at work.

Had to protect my Windows machine on my new cable/broadband Internet connection.
I had previous Unix experience so it wasn't that 'new' of an experience.
Shortly afterwards I had a spare PC that I started running Mandrake on and used it as a home server for network shares. To this day I still always have a Smoothwall to protect my network and a Linux server for network shares. I played with FreeNAS for a little while, but the 'single purpose' machine drove me batty.





From ryanjcole at me.com  Wed Feb  3 10:10:15 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:10:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1302050333.2322671265213003378.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1302050333.2322671265213003378.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B699FE7.1050300@me.com>

First exposure: 1998-99 school year with Red Hat 5.0 (I think, bought it 
off the shelf at Circuit City).
Built my first server: April, 2002. (Red Hat 6)
Switched to FreeBSD in July, 2002, after a rootkit hack.
Been running FreeBSD servers ever since, but only as service machines; 
never for desktops or workstations.

I've been hosting websites either locally through DSL and Cable or 
remotely through farms since April, 2002. Supposedly I know enough to be 
a support specialist (according to people I've worked with) but I don't 
think so. :) Although it would be nice to get out of development double 
time.


From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 13:45:47 2010
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (bob)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:45:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list]  When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
Message-ID: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>

I started using Linux back in the DOS days when the company I worked for
wanted me to study the differences between the new Microsoft Windows OS
that was just introduced, and Linux for the work place. 

Although I loved Linux compared to DOS, there just wasn't any quality,
user friendly office productivity software.

About 2 years ago I heard of Ubuntu and gave it a try. WOW what a
difference. I am using Linux more and Windows less every day... on my
home computer.

If I were in the same position I was in years ago, I would sill have to
go with Windows because of the lack of quality, user friendly
productivity software.  AS much and as fast as Linux had evolved, it
still can't compete in the office environment with non-techie users.

Give me some GOOD OCR software and much better hardware compatibility,
and I will change my mind, throw out Windows, and never look back!

The most important point though, is that Linux lovers need to stop
arguing with me and fix the problems.  If you don't, Linux will always
be inferior to Windows for the masses.  But then.... isn't that what
some of you really want?



From Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com  Wed Feb  3 14:01:32 2010
From: Larry.Pint at ntuminc.com (Larry R. Pint)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:01:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCB07A@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>


                                             .:\:/:.
          +-------------------+             .:\:\:/:/:.
          |   PLEASE DO NOT   |            :.:\:\:/:/:.:
          |  FEED THE TROLLS  |           :=.' -   - '.=:
          |                   |           '=(\ 9   9 /)='
          |   Thank you,      |              (  (_)  )
          |       Management  |              /`-vvv-'\
          +-------------------+             /         \
                  |  |        @@@          / /|,,,,,|\ \
                  |  |        @@@         /_//  /^\  \\_\
    @x@@x@        |  |         |/         WW(  (   )  )WW
    \||||/        |  |        \|           __\,,\ /,,/__
     \||/         |  |         |          (______Y______)
 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
> linux.org] On Behalf Of bob
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:46 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
> 
> I started using Linux back in the DOS days when the company I worked
for
> wanted me to study the differences between the new Microsoft Windows
OS
> that was just introduced, and Linux for the work place.
> 
> Although I loved Linux compared to DOS, there just wasn't any quality,
> user friendly office productivity software.
> 
> About 2 years ago I heard of Ubuntu and gave it a try. WOW what a
> difference. I am using Linux more and Windows less every day... on my
> home computer.
> 
> If I were in the same position I was in years ago, I would sill have
to
> go with Windows because of the lack of quality, user friendly
> productivity software.  AS much and as fast as Linux had evolved, it
> still can't compete in the office environment with non-techie users.
> 
> Give me some GOOD OCR software and much better hardware compatibility,
> and I will change my mind, throw out Windows, and never look back!
> 
> The most important point though, is that Linux lovers need to stop
> arguing with me and fix the problems.  If you don't, Linux will always
> be inferior to Windows for the masses.  But then.... isn't that what
> some of you really want?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 14:17:32 2010
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (bob)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:17:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
Message-ID: <1265228252.11760.66.camel@bob-old-desktop>


Thanks for proving my point Larry! A personal attack on me, not
discussion of the issues I raise.


                                             .:\:/:.
          +-------------------+             .:\:\:/:/:.
          |   PLEASE DO NOT   |            :.:\:\:/:/:.:
          |  FEED THE TROLLS  |           :=.' -   - '.=:
          |                   |           '=(\ 9   9 /)='
          |   Thank you,      |              (  (_)  )
          |       Management  |              /`-vvv-'\
          +-------------------+             /         \
                  |  |        @@@          / /|,,,,,|\ \
                  |  |        @@@         /_//  /^\  \\_\
    @x@@x@        |  |         |/         WW(  (   )  )WW
    \||||/        |  |        \|           __\,,\ /,,/__
     \||/         |  |         |          (______Y______)
 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\



From admin at lctn.org  Wed Feb  3 15:06:21 2010
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:06:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] snmp help
Message-ID: <4B69E54D.2010309@lctn.org>

I am trying to configure snmp to display disk space, memory used, and 
load levels on a couple servers. I am using snmpget and snmpwalk and 
getting errors similar to this:

snmpget -v 1 -c public localhost .1.3.6.1.4.1.9600.1.1.1.1.1      Error 
in packet
Reason: (noSuchName) There is no such variable name in this MIB.
Failed object: SNMPv2-SMI::enterprises.9600.1.1.1.1.1





I know it is a simple configuration issue, but have not found the 
solution. I could use some assistance making the necessary changes to 
get this working

I am currently working with a redhat vmware server.

Raymond


From jolexa at jolexa.net  Wed Feb  3 15:32:41 2010
From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:32:41 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list]
 =?utf-8?q?When=2C_why=2C_and_how_did_you_start_using?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Linux=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
References: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <77806bbd1f7483d2a75a3936e215f3eb@jolexa.net>


On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:45:47 -0600, bob <r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I started using Linux back in the DOS days when the company I worked for
> wanted me to study the differences between the new Microsoft Windows OS
> that was just introduced, and Linux for the work place. 

Well, it can and it does. I use open source solutions in a windows
environment at work. It just takes an open mindset. Also, as a non-windows
household, my non-techie roommate can use any one of my computers without
asking me questions. AND, she is a girl (not even in IT!) :)

In your case, it seems like you are a supporter of status-quo. I don't
mind though.
 
> Although I loved Linux compared to DOS, there just wasn't any quality,
> user friendly office productivity software.
> 
> About 2 years ago I heard of Ubuntu and gave it a try. WOW what a
> difference. I am using Linux more and Windows less every day... on my
> home computer.
> 
> If I were in the same position I was in years ago, I would sill have to
> go with Windows because of the lack of quality, user friendly
> productivity software.  AS much and as fast as Linux had evolved, it
> still can't compete in the office environment with non-techie users.
> 
> Give me some GOOD OCR software and much better hardware compatibility,
> and I will change my mind, throw out Windows, and never look back!
> 
> The most important point though, is that Linux lovers need to stop
> arguing with me and fix the problems.  If you don't, Linux will always
> be inferior to Windows for the masses.  But then.... isn't that what
> some of you really want?

See, that is the thing. You are never going to get good responses when you
start the conversation by alienating people. This is considered trolling.
"This sucks because I say it does, prove me wrong" type of thing.

On a serious note, if you like that linux is free, then you can't expect
someone else to just "fix it for me" - If no kernel developers are using
the hardware that you have, well..you can probably pay someone to make it
work. Similarly with software. I choose to work on free software because I
like to, I don't care to support people with attitudes like "your software
sucks because foo doesn't work, Windows is better" either contribute
constructively or don't use it. :)

Get involved, file bugs for projects, donate some money (or hardware) to
your favorite software application (or distribution). Submit a patch :)
Linux in general means nothing if people are not involved.

-Jeremy 

> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From danyberg at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:45:27 2010
From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:45:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted:
Message-ID: <5daafeb11002031345v467889d7k6bbee79fd0e962e6@mail.gmail.com>

A while back I was asking about a networking solution for my church, and I
got some good suggestions.  Well, we're still waiting for the fiber optic
connection to be installed, but we decided to get some of the internal
wiring done now (Or sometime soon).  And a couple offers of cheap managed
switches didn't pan out.  So...  I'm looking for a cheap managed switch.
And if anyone wants to help get it set up I'd welcome the chance to learn
from someone else, but I am sure I can figure it all out if I have to.

And even farther off topic:  Anyone know where I might be able to find a
good 32 channel sound board for a good price?

Thanks,
Dave

danyberg at gmail.com
-- 
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem;
government is the problem."  - Ronald Reagan

<><
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From iipreca at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:58:43 2010
From: iipreca at hotmail.com (G J)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:58:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted:
In-Reply-To: <5daafeb11002031345v467889d7k6bbee79fd0e962e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5daafeb11002031345v467889d7k6bbee79fd0e962e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W2153833B2E7ECA175B129CAA560@phx.gbl>


I don't have a managed switch laying around to give ya, but as far as the mixer goes, I'm a little more knowledgeable (A/V tech for college campus). I don't know what your definition of cheap is but for about $880 you can get a new 32 channel board from these guys behringer.com/EN/Products/SX3242FX.aspx I have first hand experience with their gear and they are very high quality at a more reasonable cost. After that I'd hit eBay, you know the rest.

Jesse



A while back I was asking about a networking solution for my church, and I got some good suggestions.  Well, we're still waiting for the fiber optic connection to be installed, but we decided to get some of the internal wiring done now (Or sometime soon).  And a couple offers of cheap managed switches didn't pan out.  So...  I'm looking for a cheap managed switch.  And if anyone wants to help get it set up I'd welcome the chance to learn from someone else, but I am sure I can figure it all out if I have to.


And even farther off topic:  Anyone know where I might be able to find a good 32 channel sound board for a good price?

Thanks,
Dave

danyberg at gmail.com
-- 
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."  - Ronald Reagan


 <><
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 18:12:15 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:12:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
References: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002031626370.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010, bob wrote:

> Give me some GOOD OCR software and much better hardware compatibility, 
> and I will change my mind, throw out Windows, and never look back!
>
> The most important point though, is that Linux lovers need to stop 
> arguing with me and fix the problems.  If you don't, Linux will always 
> be inferior to Windows for the masses.  But then.... isn't that what 
> some of you really want?


These supposed problems are only problems for people with incompatible 
hardware or with certain software needs that aren't met in a GNU/Linux 
environment.  If you choose hardware that works well with Linux, you can 
install Ubuntu in 15 minutes (using maybe 2 minutes of your own time).  I 
have installed it on five desktop machines in the past year with no 
problems.

I also installed it on a EeePC netbook (Ubuntu Netbook Remix) and that too 
was fairly easy -- I had to use a USB stick which could challenge some 
people but it wasn't a huge hassle.

I don't want Linux to be "inferior for the masses," and I don't think it 
is inferior.  People usually don't have to install Windows, but if they 
did, they'd have problems.  If manufacturers would sell their computers 
with Linux installed, "the masses" would do great.  As Linux popularity 
increases, demand will increase, and manufacturers will have to adjust. 
Microsoft will fight for their exclusivity agreements (which probably 
should be illegal because they are anti-competitive), but they might be 
overwhelmed in the end, or at least I hope that will happen.

Mike


From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Wed Feb  3 18:30:13 2010
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:30:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCB07A@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>
References: <AD1913F70C219A458F44131CC9E91BA601BCB07A@exch01.internal.ntuminc.com>
Message-ID: <201002031830.13777.max@bernsteinforpresident.com>

We seem to be forgetting about Larry's advice...  
There is nothing to be gained by responding to comments such as Bob's.
(Oohh!  Sounds like VeggieTales!)


On Wednesday 03 February 2010 2:01:32 pm Larry R. Pint wrote:
> 
>                                              .:\:/:.
>           +-------------------+             .:\:\:/:/:.
>           |   PLEASE DO NOT   |            :.:\:\:/:/:.:
>           |  FEED THE TROLLS  |           :=.' -   - '.=:
>           |                   |           '=(\ 9   9 /)='
>           |   Thank you,      |              (  (_)  )
>           |       Management  |              /`-vvv-'\
>           +-------------------+             /         \
>                   |  |        @@@          / /|,,,,,|\ \
>                   |  |        @@@         /_//  /^\  \\_\
>     @x@@x@        |  |         |/         WW(  (   )  )WW
>     \||||/        |  |        \|           __\,,\ /,,/__
>      \||/         |  |         |          (______Y______)
>  /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> 
>  
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
> > linux.org] On Behalf Of bob
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:46 PM
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
> > 
> > I started using Linux back in the DOS days when the company I worked
> for
> > wanted me to study the differences between the new Microsoft Windows
> OS
> > that was just introduced, and Linux for the work place.
> > 
> > Although I loved Linux compared to DOS, there just wasn't any quality,
> > user friendly office productivity software.
> > 
> > About 2 years ago I heard of Ubuntu and gave it a try. WOW what a
> > difference. I am using Linux more and Windows less every day... on my
> > home computer.
> > 
> > If I were in the same position I was in years ago, I would sill have
> to
> > go with Windows because of the lack of quality, user friendly
> > productivity software.  AS much and as fast as Linux had evolved, it
> > still can't compete in the office environment with non-techie users.
> > 
> > Give me some GOOD OCR software and much better hardware compatibility,
> > and I will change my mind, throw out Windows, and never look back!
> > 
> > The most important point though, is that Linux lovers need to stop
> > arguing with me and fix the problems.  If you don't, Linux will always
> > be inferior to Windows for the masses.  But then.... isn't that what
> > some of you really want?
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

-- 
Max Shinn
Programmer, Composer
max at BernsteinForPresident.com
www.BernsteinForPresident.com | trombonechamp.wordpress.com

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything."
      -Alexander Hamilton


From jjensen at apache.org  Wed Feb  3 20:26:20 2010
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:26:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <005001caa541$74025e50$5c071af0$@org>

In the early 90's a startup I joined changed direction and I had to learn
DEC Unix on the Alpha's for the hardward/software products we made.  Really
nice OS and hardware.  The great thing is I learned enough to get started on
a Linux server on my own.

I wanted some kind of file and printer server, so, after that ride, sometime
in 1999 I bought a very used PC from my first consulting customer for $25
(they were unloading a lot of hardware).  I added a new big harddrive
(10G!).  Naturally (as it was free and I sort of knew Unix enough) I
installed Red Hat and went from there.  For the first few years I upgraded
until RH7, then ran that version until last fall when a board failure
occurred.  So that little box ran flawlessly for 10 years!



From cncole at earthlink.net  Wed Feb  3 18:33:52 2010
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:33:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEICDAAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of bob
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:46 PM
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
>
>
>
> Give me some GOOD OCR software and much better hardware compatibility,
> and I will change my mind, throw out Windows, and never look back!

The Windows OCR software that comes with my scanners doesn't seem any better or as good as Tesseract for Linux that is highly
praised.

Exactly what is your complaint or need for function that is better in Windows?

What does one have to pay to get better than the excellent free stuff, and what does it do that is better?


Chuck



From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 21:08:20 2010
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (bob)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:08:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
Message-ID: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>

I'm glad you all love Linux so much. I said I like it too! But there are
some things that Windows does better for some users. Especially in the
workplace cubicle.  If Linux was so superior, and FREE, then Microsoft
would not exist.  Prove me wrong? You CAN'T prove me wrong,  

Windows will remain dominant until people admit Linux has faults and do
something about them. I'm not seeing that here!

Now if you will excuse me, I have some documents that need to be scanned
and OCR'd.  I will have to reboot to Windows.  

Live with it.



From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 21:39:56 2010
From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (bob)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:39:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
Message-ID: <1265254796.3880.80.camel@bob-old-desktop>

Mark,

The question was "When, why, and how did you start using Linux?"

I answered the question honestly.

I got mugged by people who obviously wanted to fight more than stay on
topic.

And I am not the one who resorted to name calling instead of intelligent
dialog.

God bless you anyway,

Bob



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed Feb  3 22:11:56 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux user)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:11:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Jobs/careers related to Linux
Message-ID: <20100203221156.dcaba5dd.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

What types of jobs/careers involve using Linux?  I'd like to hear from those of you who use Linux on the job, whether Linux is your main job/career or just one aspect of your job/career.

Although I am currently seeking an embedded engineering position (working with microcontrollers), I have also thought of turning Linux into a career as well.  An embedded engineering position at a workplace that uses Linux would be a good way to combine the two.

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From goodstuff9 at msn.com  Thu Feb  4 00:12:43 2010
From: goodstuff9 at msn.com (goodstuff9 at msn.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:12:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265254796.3880.80.camel@bob-old-desktop>
References: <1265254796.3880.80.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP93C8970A2BCBB0D0C920858D550@phx.gbl>

I won't call anyone names.

I have used Windows for about almost 30 years. About two years ago my 
disgust with it could no longer be contained, so - to paraphrase 
Morpheus from "The Matrix" - I took the red pill and freed my mind, and 
switched wholesale to Linux.

I never looked back. I am very, very happy with Linux.

(Having said that, it is my sense that there is a lot of denial among 
Linux advocates. Most of the human race absolutely does *NOT* want to be 
bothered with the software management that goes with Linux. Microsoft 
does a much better job than any Linux distro of designing their product 
to appeal to people who want not to have to think about their computers 
at all. This is why Windows maintains its greater popularity.)


bob wrote:
> Mark,
>
> The question was "When, why, and how did you start using Linux?"
>
> I answered the question honestly.
>
> I got mugged by people who obviously wanted to fight more than stay on
> topic.
>
> And I am not the one who resorted to name calling instead of intelligent
> dialog.
>
> God bless you anyway,
>
> Bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>   


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 00:27:23 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:27:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP93C8970A2BCBB0D0C920858D550@phx.gbl>
References: <1265254796.3880.80.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<BLU0-SMTP93C8970A2BCBB0D0C920858D550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002040023280.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, goodstuff9 at msn.com wrote:

> (Having said that, it is my sense that there is a lot of denial among 
> Linux advocates. Most of the human race absolutely does *NOT* want to be 
> bothered with the software management that goes with Linux. Microsoft 
> does a much better job than any Linux distro of designing their product 
> to appeal to people who want not to have to think about their computers 
> at all. This is why Windows maintains its greater popularity.)


So it's not because of the anti-competitive exclusivity agreements with 
Dell and others or illegal collusion with Intel?  It's not because people 
like to just keep doing what they're doing and not deal with the hassle of 
changing to something else?

For me, using Ubuntu isn't harder than using Win XP.  It does it's own 
updates, I just have to click "yes".  Windows is like that too.  Compare 
synaptic with what you go through to install a program in Windows.  How is 
Windows easier?  I really don't think it is.

Mike


From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Thu Feb  4 06:47:37 2010
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:47:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP93C8970A2BCBB0D0C920858D550@phx.gbl>
References: <1265254796.3880.80.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<BLU0-SMTP93C8970A2BCBB0D0C920858D550@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <201002040647.37692.max@bernsteinforpresident.com>

> (Having said that, it is my sense that there is a lot of denial among 
> Linux advocates. Most of the human race absolutely does *NOT* want to be 
> bothered with the software management that goes with Linux. Microsoft 
> does a much better job than any Linux distro of designing their product 
> to appeal to people who want not to have to think about their computers 
> at all. This is why Windows maintains its greater popularity.)

I think it is important to look at this as a part of a bigger picture.  The 
reason Windows is seen as "easy to use" in comparison to GNU/Linux is because
people in general don't recognize the difference between "unfamiliar" and 
"distaste".  Has anyone read the Gladwell book "Blink"?  He has a chapter
devoted to this concept, but instead of discussing software, he discusses
office chairs.  If GNU/Linux was the most popular desktop operating system, 
it would no doubt be considered the easiest to use.  So, one can conclude that
Windows is not more popular because it is easier to use, but rather, the other 
way around: Windows is easier to use because it is more popular.

-Max


From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:50:50 2010
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (Troy)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:50:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Jobs/careers related to Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100203221156.dcaba5dd.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100203221156.dcaba5dd.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <34de7f3d1002040550y70ac1c96u8ded587168ff5e2a@mail.gmail.com>

Currently, Linux is only a small aspect of my job as a support technician.
We use Linux on a server that functions as our intranet, and we recently
installed Ubuntu on a couple workstations that will function as public
computers for guests to use.  It will be interesting to hear what feedback
we receive from the guests using the Ubuntu workstations.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Jason Hsu, Linux user <
jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> What types of jobs/careers involve using Linux?  I'd like to hear from
> those of you who use Linux on the job, whether Linux is your main job/career
> or just one aspect of your job/career.
>
> Although I am currently seeking an embedded engineering position (working
> with microcontrollers), I have also thought of turning Linux into a career
> as well.  An embedded engineering position at a workplace that uses Linux
> would be a good way to combine the two.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From florin at iucha.net  Thu Feb  4 08:19:44 2010
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:19:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>

On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 09:08:20PM -0600, bob wrote:
> I'm glad you all love Linux so much. I said I like it too! But there are
> some things that Windows does better for some users. Especially in the
> workplace cubicle.  If Linux was so superior, and FREE, then Microsoft
> would not exist.  Prove me wrong? You CAN'T prove me wrong,  

How about the many news articles where "X moves to Linux" whether is a
city in Europe or a school district someplace and then a few months
later you heart that 'they got a deal from Microsoft' to keep Windows?
Those budget decisions are taken by a few people, who are corruptible
or dumb.  And the bribe does not have to be obvious, or paid by
Microsoft directly - as an IT director, you'd rather have a big budget
and an army of low-paid MCSEs to keep rebooting and re-imaging the
same rooted boxes than a few experienced but expensive UNIX admins that
can manage the same amount of computing power.

Plus, Linux started when Microsoft was already entrenched and it takes
a while to fall from 95% market penetration.  But fall it does, year
by year.

> Windows will remain dominant until people admit Linux has faults and do
> something about them. I'm not seeing that here!

I'm glad Windows has no faults.  Er... wait...

> Now if you will excuse me, I have some documents that need to be scanned
> and OCR'd.  I will have to reboot to Windows.

Godspeed.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb  4 09:00:54 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:00:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4B6AE126.9090505@me.com>

Florin Iucha wrote:
> And the bribe does not have to be obvious, or paid by
> Microsoft directly - as an IT director, you'd rather have a big budget
> and an army of low-paid MCSEs to keep rebooting and re-imaging the
> same rooted boxes than a few experienced but expensive UNIX admins that
> can manage the same amount of computing power.
>   

I'm an experienced Unix admin that isn't expensive. In fact, I'm cheaper 
than most MCSE "gods" at between 50-75k.
You get what you pay for. <g>


From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Thu Feb  4 09:08:54 2010
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:08:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <201002040647.37692.max@bernsteinforpresident.com>
References: <1265254796.3880.80.camel@bob-old-desktop><BLU0-SMTP93C8970A2BCBB0D0C920858D550@phx.gbl>
	<201002040647.37692.max@bernsteinforpresident.com>
Message-ID: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E604A8F4FF@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>


> Microsoft does a much better job than any Linux distro of designing
their product 
> to appeal to people who want not to have to think about their
computers 
> at all. This is why Windows maintains its greater popularity.)


If it were as simple that, then Macintosh would dominate the consumer
market with Windows running a distance 2nd place.


From blutgens at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 09:11:04 2010
From: blutgens at gmail.com (Ben)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:11:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <face7dfd1002040711n1f4715dp49410eaf46dbdbba@mail.gmail.com>

Well its nice to see that blatant, asshat trolls still frequent the LUG
list.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 09:08:20PM -0600, bob wrote:
> > I'm glad you all love Linux so much. I said I like it too! But there are
> > some things that Windows does better for some users. Especially in the
> > workplace cubicle.  If Linux was so superior, and FREE, then Microsoft
> > would not exist.  Prove me wrong? You CAN'T prove me wrong,
>
> How about the many news articles where "X moves to Linux" whether is a
> city in Europe or a school district someplace and then a few months
> later you heart that 'they got a deal from Microsoft' to keep Windows?
> Those budget decisions are taken by a few people, who are corruptible
> or dumb.  And the bribe does not have to be obvious, or paid by
> Microsoft directly - as an IT director, you'd rather have a big budget
> and an army of low-paid MCSEs to keep rebooting and re-imaging the
> same rooted boxes than a few experienced but expensive UNIX admins that
> can manage the same amount of computing power.
>
> Plus, Linux started when Microsoft was already entrenched and it takes
> a while to fall from 95% market penetration.  But fall it does, year
> by year.
>
> > Windows will remain dominant until people admit Linux has faults and do
> > something about them. I'm not seeing that here!
>
> I'm glad Windows has no faults.  Er... wait...
>
> > Now if you will excuse me, I have some documents that need to be scanned
> > and OCR'd.  I will have to reboot to Windows.
>
> Godspeed.
>
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Ben Lutgens
Linux / Unix System Administror

Three of your friends throw up after eating chicken salad.  Do you think:
"I should find more robust friends" or "we should check that refrigerator"?
      -- Donald Becker, on vortex-bug, suspecting a network-wide problem
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb  4 09:16:06 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:16:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <face7dfd1002040711n1f4715dp49410eaf46dbdbba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<face7dfd1002040711n1f4715dp49410eaf46dbdbba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AE4B6.2080603@me.com>

You just fed them. Now we must feed you to them. grr. [and yes, I'm 
aware I technically fed them, too]

Ben wrote:
> Well its nice to see that blatant, asshat trolls still frequent the 
> LUG list.
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net 
> <mailto:florin at iucha.net>> wrote:
>
>     On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 09:08:20PM -0600, bob wrote:
>     > I'm glad you all love Linux so much. I said I like it too! But
>     there are
>     > some things that Windows does better for some users. Especially
>     in the
>     > workplace cubicle.  If Linux was so superior, and FREE, then
>     Microsoft
>     > would not exist.  Prove me wrong? You CAN'T prove me wrong,
>
>     How about the many news articles where "X moves to Linux" whether is a
>     city in Europe or a school district someplace and then a few months
>     later you heart that 'they got a deal from Microsoft' to keep Windows?
>     Those budget decisions are taken by a few people, who are corruptible
>     or dumb.  And the bribe does not have to be obvious, or paid by
>     Microsoft directly - as an IT director, you'd rather have a big budget
>     and an army of low-paid MCSEs to keep rebooting and re-imaging the
>     same rooted boxes than a few experienced but expensive UNIX admins
>     that
>     can manage the same amount of computing power.
>
>     Plus, Linux started when Microsoft was already entrenched and it takes
>     a while to fall from 95% market penetration.  But fall it does, year
>     by year.
>
>     > Windows will remain dominant until people admit Linux has faults
>     and do
>     > something about them. I'm not seeing that here!
>
>     I'm glad Windows has no faults.  Er... wait...
>
>     > Now if you will excuse me, I have some documents that need to be
>     scanned
>     > and OCR'd.  I will have to reboot to Windows.
>
>     Godspeed.
>
>     florin
>



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 10:13:16 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:13:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <4B6AE4B6.2080603@me.com>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<face7dfd1002040711n1f4715dp49410eaf46dbdbba@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6AE4B6.2080603@me.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002041012150.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> You just fed them. Now we must feed you to them. grr. [and yes, I'm 
> aware I technically fed them, too]


We do it because we have things we want to say.  They remind us to say 
them.

Mike


From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb  4 10:14:08 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:14:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Troll feeding... unintentional... I think...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002041012150.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<face7dfd1002040711n1f4715dp49410eaf46dbdbba@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6AE4B6.2080603@me.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002041012150.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4B6AF250.5040804@me.com>

Very true.

I changed the thread since we're OT.

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> You just fed them. Now we must feed you to them. grr. [and yes, I'm 
>> aware I technically fed them, too]
>
>
> We do it because we have things we want to say.  They remind us to say 
> them.
>
> Mike



From kc0iog at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 10:29:12 2010
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:29:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Jobs/careers related to Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100203221156.dcaba5dd.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100203221156.dcaba5dd.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da1002040829l60e1a21s7a8d020723b5ce1a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Jason Hsu, Linux user
<jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> What types of jobs/careers involve using Linux? ?I'd like to hear from those of you who use Linux on the job, whether Linux is your main job/career or just one aspect of your job/career.
>
> Although I am currently seeking an embedded engineering position (working with microcontrollers), I have also thought of turning Linux into a career as well. ?An embedded engineering position at a workplace that uses Linux would be a good way to combine the two.

IT and engineering are where you'll end up using linux the most.

I used to work in IT, and my linux usage was limited to utility
computing.  Primarily a WIndows shop, I used linux where it made sense
to set up a single function box (like our proxy server running squid).
 Linux has a potential to be part of almost any IT infrastructure,
right tool for the job I say.  I spent less than 5% of my time playing
with linux, just because I wore so many hats that tinkering with the
linux boxes wasn't a common activity.  Some organzations find value in
running primarily linux, most don't.  The important thing is not to
force linux into the infrastructure.  Sometimes linux doesn't make
sense, sometimes it does.  Right tool for the job.  I think I said
that already.  The nice thing now vs 5 years ago is that you don't
scare people away when you say "linux" in the datacenter.  Linux is
widely accepted now, and plays well with others.  Not to mention most
VARs support linux, so boxes are now supportable by more than just the
guy who set it up.

Now I work support for Xiotech, and my linux roles have changed
tremendously.  Our core products are built on linux, and even though I
don't do any sort of development on those products, I'm constantly
looking at linux logs and playing with the CLI (in the lab and in the
field).  My lapotp runs Windows because all of our support tools are
WIndows based.  The engineers run whatever they want to.  Some run
Windows, some linux, some OS X, and the hardcore guys run OpenBSD or
Solaris.

Brian


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  4 13:15:58 2010
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:15:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <201002040647.37692.max@bernsteinforpresident.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEIFDAAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Max Shinn
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:48 AM
>
> I think it is important to look at this as a part of a bigger picture.  The
> reason Windows is seen as "easy to use" in comparison to GNU/Linux is because
> people in general don't recognize the difference between "unfamiliar" and
> "distaste".  Has anyone read the Gladwell book "Blink"?  He has a chapter
> devoted to this concept, but instead of discussing software, he discusses
> office chairs.  If GNU/Linux was the most popular desktop operating system,
> it would no doubt be considered the easiest to use.  So, one can conclude that
> Windows is not more popular because it is easier to use, but rather, the other
> way around: Windows is easier to use because it is more popular.
>
> -Max

I wouldn't  claim that the analogy is "exact", but this reminds me of the push to use Esperanto instead of English because Eaperanto
was easier, better, etc, as a world-wide common language.  A few "intellectuals" learned and spoke Esparanto whenever they could.
However, there never was a city where a common tourist could ask directions to restrooms or restaurants in Esperanto, so folks
continued using what they knew.

On the other hand, there was a day when IBM and its proprietary hardware and software was dominant.  Because of its attempt at rigid
(and expensive) proprietary control, IBM is no longer such a big deal.   Microspft is headed that same way at an increasing pace as
they attempt to make IE6 and XP Pro obsolete and require much more powerful hardware to run the same old stuff.  Microsoft has not
added any actual functionality to Office Pro since 1997, but has made minor format changes that make it hard for an average user to
use rhe old stuff.  Many corporations (Honeywell was/is one, Wells Fargo is another) maintain legacy compatibility because huge
numbers of their customers have no need or budget for $1,000/year "upgrades".  Keep your IBM punched card reader and remember the
day when IBM and those were boss   :-)

I used to do math by rubbing two sticks together...


Chuck




From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com  Thu Feb  4 13:58:49 2010
From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:58:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEIFDAAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <201002040647.37692.max@bernsteinforpresident.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEIFDAAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20100204135742.0258ba78@pop.mm.com>

At 2/4/2010 01:15 PM, Chuck Cole wrote:
>I used to do math by rubbing two sticks together...

No, that's how we used to start flame wars.
Beads -- that's how we did math. 



From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Thu Feb  4 14:02:18 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:02:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Troll feeding... unintentional... I think...
In-Reply-To: <4B6AF250.5040804@me.com>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>	<20100204141944.GD2519@iris.iucha.org>	<face7dfd1002040711n1f4715dp49410eaf46dbdbba@mail.gmail.com>	<4B6AE4B6.2080603@me.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002041012150.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4B6AF250.5040804@me.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B27CA.6020500@soul-dev.com>

On 2/4/2010 10:14 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> Very true.
>
> I changed the thread since we're OT.
>
> Mike Miller wrote:
>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> You just fed them. Now we must feed you to them. grr. [and yes, I'm
>>> aware I technically fed them, too]
>>
>>
>> We do it because we have things we want to say.  They remind us to say
>> them.
>>
>> Mike
>
I agree, if the response is at least thoughtful than by all means I want 
to hear from you. If your only interest is in throwing crap back and 
forth then there is no point.

Most of the responses from the thread that spawned this OT thread have 
been well thought out and I personally have benefited, and enjoyed 
reading them.

The rest is mostly a chuckle session as I drink my morning coffee; does 
no harm to me.

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From billshorn at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 22:07:23 2010
From: billshorn at gmail.com (Bill Ryce)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:07:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Samba: Shares work except printer
Message-ID: <BAC9D37965BD40D59B32D5D4AFEDE310@trendnet>

Hello.

I have a HP LaserJet attached to my Fedora server with typical parallel/Centronix interface. Users of the Linux box have no trouble printing to it (Web browsers, Emacs, a2ps, etc.). This Fedora 12 Box is a Samba server to my network. My problem with Samba is that shares work fine except for printer shares.  I can browse directory shares with ease from a Windows (Vista) machine. 


From diablomarcus at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:24:12 2010
From: diablomarcus at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:24:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <26897bbd1002031924sb193d76wc7f749ec35c42224@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think anyone here cares too much that you run Windoze.

End of conversation. Do what you want. Trolls only live because they
get people pissed.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:08 PM, bob <r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm glad you all love Linux so much. I said I like it too! But there are
> some things that Windows does better for some users. Especially in the
> workplace cubicle. ?If Linux was so superior, and FREE, then Microsoft
> would not exist. ?Prove me wrong? You CAN'T prove me wrong,
>
> Windows will remain dominant until people admit Linux has faults and do
> something about them. I'm not seeing that here!
>
> Now if you will excuse me, I have some documents that need to be scanned
> and OCR'd. ?I will have to reboot to Windows.
>
> Live with it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From tclug at beitsahour.net  Thu Feb  4 15:16:22 2010
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:16:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Samba: Shares work except printer
In-Reply-To: <BAC9D37965BD40D59B32D5D4AFEDE310@trendnet>
References: <BAC9D37965BD40D59B32D5D4AFEDE310@trendnet>
Message-ID: <fa17c9631002041316r18a27e17t2975524c1287f7a9@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 22:07, Bill Ryce <billshorn at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I have a HP LaserJet attached to my Fedora server with typical
> parallel/Centronix interface.?Users of the Linux box have no trouble
> printing to it (Web browsers, Emacs, a2ps, etc.). This Fedora 12 Box is a
> Samba server to my network. My problem with Samba is that shares work fine
> except for printer shares.? I can browse directory shares with ease from a
> Windows (Vista) machine.
>
> From windows explorer, I can see the printers configured on the Fedora Box,
> but all attempts to connect give me a permissions error.
>
> I am now trying samba-swat, with its copious help text, but so far no luck
> on the printer.
>
> I could go into more details, but this is a pretty vanilla set up, and I
> hoped maybe someone else has already navigated around this problem.

Ahh, printing with samba, always a delight  :)

are you using cups or lpr*?
you need to tell samba something like:
printing = cups
printcap name = cups

you also need to define two special shares, the [printers] share is a
special share that automatically creates a share for each printer on
your system. nifty eh?
[printers]
   comment = All Printers
   browseable = no
   path = /var/spool/samba
   printable = yes
   guest ok = no
   read only = yes
   create mask = 0700

you also need the [print$] share, which is were windows drivers can be
saved so that subsequest windows clients can install the printer
without having to install the drivers
[print$]
   comment = Printer Drivers
   path = /var/lib/samba/printers
   browseable = yes
   read only = yes
   guest ok = no

you just need these two for basic printing to work, if you want to
install the drivers create an smb password for your root user
(smbpasswd -a root), and use that username to login to windows. now
when you browse to the server you will see the printers listed and a
"Printers" share, if you browse to the "Printers" share you will see
the printers listed again, the difference is that these 2nd printers
are on the server, right click on them and go to properties, in the
driver tab ( i think, its been a while) you can add a windows driver
for this printer. now when you browse to that printer from another
windows workstation it should just add the printer without asking for
the drivers.

This really only works with the basic drivers, if the driver has a
requirement for some application or other it will not work. most
decent printers have an option to only install the network drivers.


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  4 15:47:43 2010
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:47:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20100204135742.0258ba78@pop.mm.com>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEMNAAAB.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com [mailto:Dean.Benjamin at mm.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:59 PM
> To: Chuck Cole
>
> At 2/4/2010 01:15 PM, Chuck Cole wrote:
> >I used to do math by rubbing two sticks together...
>
> No, that's how we used to start flame wars.
> Beads -- that's how we did math.

Your "we" is not my we.  Presumptive to assume otherwise.  I made no claim for what you did or could, and I didn't do flaming.  Did
you move on to an abacus after learning on beads?


Chuck



From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb  4 15:50:19 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:50:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEMNAAAB.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCMEMNAAAB.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4B6B411B.8070002@me.com>

OK children, let's just drop the damn thing so those of us that use this 
list for learning and teaching can be given the chance to do so without 
having to delete the garbage?


Chuck Cole wrote:
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com [mailto:Dean.Benjamin at mm.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 1:59 PM
>> To: Chuck Cole
>>
>> At 2/4/2010 01:15 PM, Chuck Cole wrote:
>>     
>>> I used to do math by rubbing two sticks together...
>>>       
>> No, that's how we used to start flame wars.
>> Beads -- that's how we did math.
>>     
>
> Your "we" is not my we.  Presumptive to assume otherwise.  I made no claim for what you did or could, and I didn't do flaming.  Did
> you move on to an abacus after learning on beads?
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From larrymcmains at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 16:16:12 2010
From: larrymcmains at comcast.net (Larry McMains)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:16:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Firewall
Message-ID: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>

I have two Ubuntu 9.10 systems on a local network provided by a Linksys 
router. I installed Firestarter on one of them and found that, as 
expected, it blocked access for file sharing by the other system. 
However, I tried adding rules to allow connections from the other 
system, and to allow specific service (SMB) requests from the other 
system, both by specific network address and by host name, each rule 
alone and both of them together. All combinations of neither, either, or 
both rules result in the other computer being blocked (if I turn off the 
firewall, access works fine, so the sharing part is set up correctly). 
I'm obviously missing something, any suggestions?

Thanks - Larry McMains


From florin at iucha.net  Thu Feb  4 16:34:11 2010
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:34:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Firewall
In-Reply-To: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>
References: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>

On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 04:16:12PM -0600, Larry McMains wrote:
> I have two Ubuntu 9.10 systems on a local network provided by a Linksys 
> router. I installed Firestarter on one of them and found that, as 
> expected, it blocked access for file sharing by the other system. 
> However, I tried adding rules to allow connections from the other 
> system, and to allow specific service (SMB) requests from the other 
> system, both by specific network address and by host name, each rule 
> alone and both of them together. All combinations of neither, either, or 
> both rules result in the other computer being blocked (if I turn off the 
> firewall, access works fine, so the sharing part is set up correctly). 
> I'm obviously missing something, any suggestions?

Show us the rules, together with the output of '/sbin/iptables-save' .

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From blutgens at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 16:49:56 2010
From: blutgens at gmail.com (Ben)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:49:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Firewall
In-Reply-To: <20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>
References: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>
	<20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <face7dfd1002041449k3d1e98e5q428d936a5ff75432@mail.gmail.com>

Try ferm, i've never been fond of the GUI fw management tools. Ferm is
awesome though.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 04:16:12PM -0600, Larry McMains wrote:
> > I have two Ubuntu 9.10 systems on a local network provided by a Linksys
> > router. I installed Firestarter on one of them and found that, as
> > expected, it blocked access for file sharing by the other system.
> > However, I tried adding rules to allow connections from the other
> > system, and to allow specific service (SMB) requests from the other
> > system, both by specific network address and by host name, each rule
> > alone and both of them together. All combinations of neither, either, or
> > both rules result in the other computer being blocked (if I turn off the
> > firewall, access works fine, so the sharing part is set up correctly).
> > I'm obviously missing something, any suggestions?
>
> Show us the rules, together with the output of '/sbin/iptables-save' .
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Ben Lutgens
Linux / Unix System Administror

Three of your friends throw up after eating chicken salad.  Do you think:
"I should find more robust friends" or "we should check that refrigerator"?
      -- Donald Becker, on vortex-bug, suspecting a network-wide problem
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From larrymcmains at comcast.net  Thu Feb  4 19:17:20 2010
From: larrymcmains at comcast.net (Larry McMains)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:17:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Firewall
In-Reply-To: <20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>
References: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>
	<20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4B6B71A0.8080804@comcast.net>

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From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:34:02 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:34:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
References: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002041834i1ada1533q4eee5967662464be@mail.gmail.com>

I was away from normal email, but when checking my inbox via my iPhone I was
able to see a lot of messages on this thread.  I thought "Wow, a lot of
people sure are excited to talk about Linux!"   I should have realized it
was a flame war.

I'd like to just take a moment to note a few things.
*
Re: Collusion between Intel and Microsoft  to somehow harm Linux *
Having just finished a twelve year tour at Intel where I maintained a
distribution of Open Source tools across multiple Linux distros, and before
that, multiple flavors of vendor-supported *nix, I can tell you this isn't
true.  If you think Microsoft and Intel get together for group love fests
and anti-linux strategy sessions, think again.  Microsoft and Intel are
strategic partners.  They will work with each other to when necessary to fix
problems.  Strategic business partners do that in every industry.   Beyond
that Intel doesn't give a damn how many PCs are running Windows, and how
many are running Linux.  What they care about is that it is Intel iron under
the hood.  Intel wised up very quickly to the fact that x86 architecture was
the dominant architecture for Linux, and that a lot of big-iron companies
were willing to embrace Linux because no one strictly controlled it.  Linux
is deemed very much a part of Intel's strategic plan - so much so quite a
few of the top kernel developers are now employed at Intel in the Open
Source Technology Labs.  Moblin - Intel's SDK/OS for the Atom processor, is
also part of the Open Source Technology Center and is fundamentally based on
Linux.

Where Intel has to tread carefully is that they cannot trumpet the virtues
of Linux over Windows too loudly - to some degree their hands are tied.  But
in the market where Linux makes money - the enterprise computing environment
- Linux wins the day on its own merits.  Consider the fact that Bing runs
over Linux clusters before disputing that claim too loudly. (Not to mention,
check out the Halloween Documents.)

Moving on to some of Bob's comments:

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:45 PM, bob <r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Although I loved Linux compared to DOS, there just wasn't any quality,
> user friendly office productivity software.
>

At the time you performed this assessment, Linux was a home-brew attempt at
providing a POSIX compliant kernel whose functionality was based on the
design and principles of Unix, and whose goal was to be a "free Unix", in
essence.  Office productivity wasn't the goal of the GNU/Linux at that time,
and the vast majority of its users would have you pry their emacs or vi
editors from their cold, dead hands before they would resort to the steaming
pile of stink that is Word.    In short, your off-hand dismissive assessment
is an apple's to oranges comparison based on ignorance.  That doesn't make
your observation any less valid objectively - or your decision to stick with
windows any less logical.

If I were in the same position I was in years ago, I would sill have to
> go with Windows because of the lack of quality, user friendly
> productivity software.  AS much and as fast as Linux had evolved, it
> still can't compete in the office environment with non-techie users.
>

Sadly, Windows can't compete in an office environment with non-techie users
either.  I support a predominantly windows environment for a concrete
company now.  I challenge you to find a less technical user base.  Just
today, while helping someone set up something as stupid-simple as an email
signature, I ran into html rendering inconsistencies in two different
Microsoft products that added up to some immense frustration.  Now... if
your complaint is that Word doesn't exist on Linux, well... that's partly
true.  You can run Word through Wine if you really want to.  But that said,
Open Office has met all of my WYSIWYG needs for office apps, and I'm
convinced after two months of learning pains my support load would be lower
if the environment was running over a good Linux distro.

The most important point though, is that Linux lovers need to stop
> arguing with me and fix the problems.  If you don't, Linux will always
> be inferior to Windows for the masses.  But then.... isn't that what
> some of you really want?
>

Bob, if you can't read this paragraph and see just how blindly conceited
this is, then do me a favor.  Open up your virtual suitcases, pack your
things, and find another community to crap on.

Kind regards,

-Rob


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:45 PM, bob <r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I started using Linux back in the DOS days when the company I worked for
> wanted me to study the differences between the new Microsoft Windows OS
> that was just introduced, and Linux for the work place.
>
> Although I loved Linux compared to DOS, there just wasn't any quality,
> user friendly office productivity software.
>
> About 2 years ago I heard of Ubuntu and gave it a try. WOW what a
> difference. I am using Linux more and Windows less every day... on my
> home computer.
>
> If I were in the same position I was in years ago, I would sill have to
> go with Windows because of the lack of quality, user friendly
> productivity software.  AS much and as fast as Linux had evolved, it
> still can't compete in the office environment with non-techie users.
>
> Give me some GOOD OCR software and much better hardware compatibility,
> and I will change my mind, throw out Windows, and never look back!
>
> The most important point though, is that Linux lovers need to stop
> arguing with me and fix the problems.  If you don't, Linux will always
> be inferior to Windows for the masses.  But then.... isn't that what
> some of you really want?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From james007wjs at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:43:47 2010
From: james007wjs at gmail.com (wes smith)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:43:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
Message-ID: <ac9dc25e1002041843h698897c0q69986d87ba16e183@mail.gmail.com>

> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:42:00 -0600
> From: "Jason Hsu, Linux user" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
>
> I started using Linux 3 years ago.  The reasons I started using Linux were:
> 1.  I had heard about how Windows was full of security holes.  It also
> seemed that security threats only grew over time.
> 2.  I had heard that support for Windows 98 (my main OS at the time) was
> about to be terminated and that this was even more vulnerable to security
> threats than Windows XP.  I wasn't about to "upgrade" my main computer from
> Windows 98 due to the expense and trouble of doing so.
> 3.  I heard that Windows Vista was nasty - a quantum leap forward in
> bloatware that was slow even on many NEW computers.  I also heard that Vista
> didn't work with many items of older hardware like printers, scanners, etc.
> 4.  I'm cheap.  My attitude towards computers can be summed up by, "If it
> ain't broke, don't replace it."  I didn't think Windows XP was that much
> better than 98 or 98 that much better than 95.  But I noticed that it took
> more RAM, hard drive space, processor power, etc. to do exactly the same
> things we had done 10 years earlier.  At the same time, I noticed that there
> weren't many killer apps (like the Internet in the 1990s), so I felt that we
> should be able to keep using the same computer for 5-10 years.
> 5.  I'm green.  I thought it was scandalous that so many computers get
> trashed each year NOT because some critical component failed but because the
> OS failed or was declared obsolete.  To me, the only good reason to get rid
> of a computer is because it breaks and cannot be repaired.
>
> So I bought a used IBM NetVista desktop computer (256 MB of RAM, 1 GHz
> processor, 20 GB hard drive, built in 2001, originally equipped with Windows
> 2000, which had been removed for sale) for $50 from a local used computer
> dealer.  I also bought a KVM switch so I could switch between the older
> computer and the newer one.  I used this newer used computer for going
> online and used the old computer with Windows 98 strictly offline.  (I still
> have and use this old computer, which I bought new in 2000.  It had a 466
> MHz processor and a 4.3 GB hard drive.  It originally had just 128 MB of
> RAM, but I upgraded it to 384 MB of RAM.  I just recently replaced the
> Windows 98 setup with Linux.)
>
> Over the last 3 years, I have been doing more and more stuff in Linux and
> less and less in Windows.  My first distro was Fedora Core 1, because the CD
> came with the book _Linux For Non-Geeks_.  Then I used Damn Small Linux,
> Puppy Linux, and Ubuntu.  (I dabbled with Debian but couldn't get it
> configured properly.)  I recently switched to antiX Linux.  As I mentioned
> before, it's the most lightweight and user-friendly distro with more than
> 20,000 programs in the repository due to the Debian repository
> compatibility.  It's the best of both worlds.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>

1. linux is just as vulnerable just in different ways, there is also some
really shitty nix's out there, most vendors know theres a bug or hole in
there app / distro and are openly to help on patching it. Or there is an
advisory, if you had enough understanding of the app you could patch it push
it through. While M$ you have to wait month by month for patches to come
through and depend on a corp to patch it for you, even if write a nice POC
exploit and show them they will most likely ignore you. 99% of world uses
M$, path of least resistance ftw, and adobe is about to pass M$ in exploits.

2. not upgrade because of a hassle and $$, peoples mindset on security is
hopeless, ITS MAKES ME SAD! /me sad panda, it does make for a nice sized
botnet

2-4 Moores law, about every 1.5 years processing power, memory capacity
doubles or generally technology doubles every 2 years. Just go through the
requirements of windows hmmmmm 98 released in may 1998 and xp released 2001
hmmmmm iirc the cpu skews the jump from 98 -> XP

you were feed by the media just like anyone else in this crappy universe.
You believe what they feed you and so does the norm. sad but true :( If you
have knowledge you can trim down any OS You almost qualify to be a mac user.
iMac therefore iSecure, lets not go there mac user are there own unique
niche.


sry to feed the trolls
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From florin at iucha.net  Thu Feb  4 23:23:23 2010
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:23:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Firewall
In-Reply-To: <4B6B71A0.8080804@comcast.net>
References: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>
	<20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<4B6B71A0.8080804@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20100205052323.GI2519@iris.iucha.org>

On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 07:17:20PM -0600, Larry McMains wrote:
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

> <html>
> <head>
>   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
>   <title></title>
> </head>
> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
> <small>With the rules:<br>
> <tt>Allow connections from host<br>
> 192.168.1.101</tt><br>
> and<br>
> <tt>Allow Service&nbsp; Port&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For<br>
> Samba(SMB) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 137-139 445&nbsp;&nbsp; 192.168.1.101</tt><br>
> </small><br>
> <small>On the system attempting access, Network Tools, Devices,
> Ethernet Interface (eth0), shows it's ipV4 address as 192.168.1.101.<br>
> Places &gt; Network&nbsp; usually shows the target system, but double
> clicking its icon results in the message "Failed to windows share".<br>

Oh, my eyes!

What I find puzzling is this:

> -A INBOUND -s 192.168.1.101/32 -j ACCEPT 
> -A INBOUND -s 192.168.1.101/32 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 137:139 -j ACCEPT 
> -A INBOUND -s 192.168.1.101/32 -p udp -m udp --dport 137:139 -j ACCEPT 
> -A INBOUND -s 192.168.1.101/32 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 445 -j ACCEPT 
> -A INBOUND -s 192.168.1.101/32 -p udp -m udp --dport 445 -j ACCEPT

It seems to match that you have both 'allow connections from 192.168.1.101'
and 'allow certain ports from 192.168.1.101' enabled in your firewall tool.

The first rule says that traffic from 192.168.1.101 should be accepted, so
the next four rules seem superfluous.  But I'm a bit rusty here, I gave up on
raw iptables a few years ago and I'm using Shorewall now.

My Shorewall setup says that for Samba you need the following ports:

   inbound udp     135,445
   inbound udp     137:139
   inbound udp     1024:   source = 137
   inbound tcp     135,139,445

If you check your logs, you should find the dropped packets.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Fri Feb  5 09:34:59 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:34:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
References: <1265252900.3880.58.camel@bob-old-desktop>
Message-ID: <4B6C3AA3.5060708@netscape.net>

On 2/3/2010 9:08 PM, bob wrote:
>
> Now if you will excuse me, I have some documents that need to be scanned
> and OCR'd.  I will have to reboot to Windows.
>
> Live with it.
>

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2010/2/4/634008838729541155-microsoft.jpg

The picture speaks for itself!

B-o-B


From steventrapp at comcast.net  Fri Feb  5 09:46:00 2010
From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven Trapp)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:46:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <ac9dc25e1002041843h698897c0q69986d87ba16e183@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ac9dc25e1002041843h698897c0q69986d87ba16e183@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C3D38.7040404@comcast.net>

All'y'all-

I started using Linux when I noticed that it was a lot more fully developed
than Minix was. Not that I ever got around to loading Minix. It was around
late 1995 and I was using (MsDos and Win3.1) and kermit to TRY to work
from home (telecommute). Work had mostly Sun workstations running SunOs
for software development. But Linux had all the GNU stuff--gcc, perl, bash.
I had a little help to figure out how to get ppp running. I used 
slackware I got off
a CD-ROM bought at a shop near the University of MN. I was hooked!

This is despite the hardware that I had at the time which was a 25MHz 386DX.
I could run X in it but I couldn't run gcc in X (it'd thrash itself 
crazy). So I
used virtual terminals up until I got a new system in 2001. But even 
under those
limitations, it was a lot simpler telecommuting with (Linux + GNU) than with
(MsDos + kermit + almostNoTools + Win3.1).  Most of our software development
was C, incidentally.

Currently, I've been using ubuntu...

Thanks,
-Steve

Steve Trapp, Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN, US
My home page: http://home.comcast.net/~steventrapp
steventrapp at \
  comcast dot net
is my e-mail address.  :-)

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From larrymcmains at comcast.net  Fri Feb  5 10:04:09 2010
From: larrymcmains at comcast.net (Larry McMains)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:04:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Firewall
In-Reply-To: <20100205052323.GI2519@iris.iucha.org>
References: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>	<20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>	<4B6B71A0.8080804@comcast.net>
	<20100205052323.GI2519@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C4179.30509@comcast.net>

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From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:43:12 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:43:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Jobs/careers related to Linux
In-Reply-To: <20100203221156.dcaba5dd.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100203221156.dcaba5dd.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002050843k3dcdf2ep99a26a5ff6bbe2aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Jason Hsu, Linux user <
jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> What types of jobs/careers involve using Linux?  I'd like to hear from
> those of you who use Linux on the job, whether Linux is your main job/career
> or just one aspect of your job/career.
>
> Although I am currently seeking an embedded engineering position (working
> with microcontrollers), I have also thought of turning Linux into a career
> as well.  An embedded engineering position at a workplace that uses Linux
> would be a good way to combine the two.
>

Hi Jason,

There are a lot of ways to "use Linux on the job" or be involved with Linux
in an every day way.  It really depends on what you like to do.  Here are a
few angles:

But generally Linux oriented jobs can fall into two broad categories.
Product development and support, and system administration/IT.

If you think "I love Linux and I love embedded programming environments and
I do that I'll be happy because I'm working on embedded Linux...." think
again.  Working with Linux will be, at best, 50% of what you love about your
job.  The things that make a job fun are:

AAA (most important) )  Do I have a good manager?
a) What are my hours?
b) Do I have enough time to actually have a life?
c) How well am I paid?
d) Am I growing professionally?
e) Is the culture at my place of employment positive?

If you happen to find yourself doing any sort of product development, you
will inevitably come up against a wall.  That wall is the date manufacturing
is supposed to start.  And never, in 14 years in industry, have I seen a
software/hardware project coast to completion "on time, on budget".  (The
best laid plans of mice and men...).  What this translate into is a push to
the finish line, and that push can last months, and those weeks can climb
over 70 hours easily.  And if you're on the critical path, you will likely
not have a choice about those (especially if you're salaried, which you
probably will be in a position like that.)

So a question to ask yourself is:  "Do I want to be on the critical path?"
(It's not so bad if you're young and single.  Just be careful not to wake up
10 years later and realize you're still single.)   Also ask yourself "What's
my next step?"  If you don't know, that's bad.

I personally was on both sides of the equation.  Product
Development/Critical Path, and system administration and mostly non-critical
path work.  Once I crossed over to the IT side of the world, I really had no
desire to go back to product development and getting crushed by those sorts
of deadlines and pushes.  I like a steady 40-hour week that let's me plan
things like familiy time and a social life.

Anyway, good luck to you.  I hope whatever you do makes you happy.

-Rob
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:47:09 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:47:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc1002041834i1ada1533q4eee5967662464be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<cac10ddc1002041834i1ada1533q4eee5967662464be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002051036230.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Robert Nesius wrote:

> Re: Collusion between Intel and Microsoft  to somehow harm Linux *
> Having just finished a twelve year tour at Intel where I maintained a
> distribution of Open Source tools across multiple Linux distros, and before
> that, multiple flavors of vendor-supported *nix, I can tell you this isn't
> true.  If you think Microsoft and Intel get together for group love fests
> and anti-linux strategy sessions, think again.  Microsoft and Intel are
> strategic partners.  They will work with each other to when necessary to fix
> problems.  Strategic business partners do that in every industry.   Beyond
> that Intel doesn't give a damn how many PCs are running Windows, and how
> many are running Linux.

Beyond that?  Yes, they don't care about Linux and they do care about 
themselves.  To the extent that Linux is in the way of Microsoft, 
Microsoft cares about it and will push Intel to do things that help 
Microsoft.  It isn't so much about Linux as about how Microsoft and Intel 
work together -- two monopolies illegally colluding in their 
anti-competitive practices to promote their products.  Intel has to do 
what Microsoft wants because if Intel produces a chip that doesn't run 
Windows, they are screwed.  Whether an Intel chip will run Windows is 
Microsoft's decision.

There are many web pages about it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+intel+collusion


> What they care about is that it is Intel iron under the hood.  Intel 
> wised up very quickly to the fact that x86 architecture was the dominant 
> architecture for Linux, and that a lot of big-iron companies were 
> willing to embrace Linux because no one strictly controlled it.  Linux 
> is deemed very much a part of Intel's strategic plan - so much so quite 
> a few of the top kernel developers are now employed at Intel in the Open 
> Source Technology Labs.  Moblin - Intel's SDK/OS for the Atom processor, 
> is also part of the Open Source Technology Center and is fundamentally 
> based on Linux.

Interesting.


> Where Intel has to tread carefully is that they cannot trumpet the 
> virtues of Linux over Windows too loudly - to some degree their hands 
> are tied.

Exactly.  Microsoft does favors for Intel:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/microsoftintel_capable_collusion.html


> But in the market where Linux makes money - the enterprise computing 
> environment - Linux wins the day on its own merits.  Consider the fact 
> that Bing runs over Linux clusters before disputing that claim too 
> loudly. (Not to mention, check out the Halloween Documents.)

I'll look for it.

Mike


From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 13:07:54 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:07:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002051036230.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <1265226347.11760.57.camel@bob-old-desktop>
	<cac10ddc1002041834i1ada1533q4eee5967662464be@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002051036230.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002051107g8e9c771maa1f21cdc180bccb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike,

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Mike Miller
<mbmiller+l at gmail.com<mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>
> wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
> > Re: Collusion between Intel and Microsoft  to somehow harm Linux *
> > Having just finished a twelve year tour at Intel where I maintained a
> > distribution of Open Source tools across multiple Linux distros, and
> before
> > that, multiple flavors of vendor-supported *nix, I can tell you this
> isn't
> > true.  If you think Microsoft and Intel get together for group love fests
> > and anti-linux strategy sessions, think again.  Microsoft and Intel are
> > strategic partners.  They will work with each other to when necessary to
> fix
> > problems.  Strategic business partners do that in every industry.
> Beyond
> > that Intel doesn't give a damn how many PCs are running Windows, and how
> > many are running Linux.
>
> Beyond that?  Yes, they don't care about Linux and they do care about
> themselves.  To the extent that Linux is in the way of Microsoft,
> Microsoft cares about it and will push Intel to do things that help
> Microsoft.


I don't disagree with any of that.

But before going into more detail, with all due respect you're using
point-examples to draw broader conclusions that may or may not be true.


> It isn't so much about Linux as about how Microsoft and Intel
> work together -- two monopolies illegally colluding in their
> anti-competitive practices to promote their products.
>

Microsoft is a documented Monopoly.  Intel is an effective Monopoly (they
haven't been judged as such by a court yet, to my knowledge).


> Intel has to do what Microsoft wants


How do you mean that?  That Intel is at the mercy of Microsoft and has no
choice?  Or that Intel has to take Microsoft seriously?


> because if Intel produces a chip that doesn't run
> Windows, they are screwed.
>

/me points to the Itanium, Atom, and ARM (before they sold ARM off again).


Whether an Intel chip will run Windows is Microsoft's decision.
>

Not true.

The degree to which iterations of the x86 family of microprocessors are
backwards compatible is ultimately  Intel's decision.  But the decision is
made for them in essence by the market (the demand for backwards
compatibility).  This isn't just driven by windows, but by every x86 object
file compiled over the past 15 years or so.  By the way, this includes all
of the XCOFF's and ELF's compiled with GCC over Linux.


> There are many web pages about it:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+intel+collusion
>
>
That's not proof of your argument.  I clicked through your link and scanned
the articles.  But if you'll accept google search results as proof of a
point, here's one for you. ;-)

http://www.google.com/search?q=proof+of+existence+of+god


> > Where Intel has to tread carefully is that they cannot trumpet the
> > virtues of Linux over Windows too loudly - to some degree their hands
> > are tied.
>
> Exactly.  Microsoft does favors for Intel:


What I meant is that Intel can't promote sales of chips by saying Linux is
better than Windows.  I don't believe they say the opposite either.  What
they do say is, famously during one add campaign, is that Intel processors
make your Internet faster. ;-)


>
> http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/microsoftintel_capable_collusion.html
>
>
You're using this as a proof point for a broader allegation, but I don't
think the way you paint the business relationship is accurate.  It's not
"buddy buddy".  It's more like the antagonist and protagonist in a John Woo
movie finding themselves at arms length with guns pointed at each others
heads.  Both companies have the ability to do tremendous harm to each other
- the degree to which they don't is simple game theory - the outcome would
be lose-lose.  You could argue "Proof of collusion"!  I'd say "strong
reasons to cooperate."  Weather they cross the line at some point into
collusion and criminal activity is not for me to say.  And even if they do,
I can assure you that relationship is not nearly as chummy as you allege.

Microsoft hates the x86 platform being dominated by one player.  That's why
they have supported some different micro-architectures over the years,
mainly as insurance and leverage against Intel.  None of them really took
off...  Didn't Windows 98 and perhaps XP supported a RISC architecture from
NEC (I can't remember the name of it and couldn't google it.  I do know
Intel purchased that FAB from NEC as part of a settlement with NEC, and I
think that FAB is where the chip was manufactured.)

You also specifically point to the events surrounding Vista's roll-out and
Vista-capable certification.  But I think think that scenario is a bit
misunderstood.   Microsoft wanted to set minimum standards for capability so
that people wouldn't run Vista + Aero on older hardware and say "Vista sucks
because it's slow" when really it is the hardware that is slow.   But you
can turn Aero off and run Vista just fine.  Microsoft's initial
certification based on running Aero suddenly pulled the rug out from under
one of Intel's chipsets that was in the middle of its life cycle.  Intel
said "Hey, what gives?" and Microsoft conceded the chipset can run Vista
without Aero, and can chug along with Aero passably.  Did they collude?  I
just truly don't know.  It could be a court rules they did collude, but even
if that happens I don't think that validates the broader conspiracy you seem
to be hinting at.  If anything, I think it shows Microsoft has to do what
Intel says too, which goes against your assertion earlier?


> > But in the market where Linux makes money - the enterprise computing
> > environment - Linux wins the day on its own merits.  Consider the fact
> > that Bing runs over Linux clusters before disputing that claim too
> > loudly. (Not to mention, check out the Halloween Documents.)
>
> I'll look for it.
>
>
Here is a good starting point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Halloween_documents_leak

http://www.opensource-definition.org/halloween/halloween1.html

-Rob
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From larrymcmains at comcast.net  Fri Feb  5 19:13:38 2010
From: larrymcmains at comcast.net (Larry McMains)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:13:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Firewall
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4179.30509@comcast.net>
References: <4B6B472C.7080503@comcast.net>	<20100204223411.GF2519@iris.iucha.org>	<4B6B71A0.8080804@comcast.net>	<20100205052323.GI2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<4B6C4179.30509@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B6CC242.8040006@comcast.net>

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From chewie at wookimus.net  Sat Feb  6 01:34:41 2010
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:34:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] When, why, and how did you start using Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> 
References: <20100202214200.005d4dcb.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <20144.1265441681@skuld.wookimus.net>

First Linux Install: 1997 - Red Hat 4.2. Dual-boot w/Win 95.

First Serious Use At Work: 1998 - Debian on a 486 w/2 ISA cards to
      replace a $3000 Windows NT firewall

First Time I Removed Windows Completely: 1999 - Tired of BSoD's of
      Win '98

Day I wet back to a commercial OS as my primary desktop... still have't.

Fun times! :)

Chad


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Feb  9 18:35:46 2010
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:35:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>

Hi all,

Has anyone here played with Linux on a USB thumbdrive? It seems more 
convenient to me than carrying a LiveCD around, plus you can, you know, 
save personalised settings.

I've been trying for a few days and have had... mixed results. I've 
managed to get Ubuntu to make a copy of it's LiveCD on a thumbdrive, but 
then you end up with an Ubuntu Live CD. Which would be better than 
nothing, except even THAT doesn't always boot up all the way.

I've tried plain ol' installing Ubuntu on the thumbdrive (even going so 
far as to remove the other harddrives from the system) but that won't boot 
all the way, either - they get stuck on the splash screen somewhere (even 
when I take "quiet" out of grub).

I know about Damn Small Linux, but I'd rather have a system thats a biiit 
more current than 2.4 kernels and Firefox 2.0.

Anyone have any experiences?


-Yaron

--


From florin at iucha.net  Tue Feb  9 18:54:50 2010
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:54:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20100210005450.GZ2519@iris.iucha.org>

On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 06:35:46PM -0600, Yaron wrote:
> Has anyone here played with Linux on a USB thumbdrive? It seems more 
> convenient to me than carrying a LiveCD around, plus you can, you know, 
> save personalised settings.

How much Linux to you need?  I'm using SystemRescueCD [1] on an USB
drive and it comes with Firefox, a few text editors.  I doubt running
OpenOffice from a cheap USB drive would be a satisfying experience.

I've heard that Knoppix might let you install on USB, but I haven't
tried it myself.

Cheers,
florin

1: http://www.sysresccd.org/

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Tue Feb  9 19:00:30 2010
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:00:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <201002091900.31065.max@bernsteinforpresident.com>

> Anyone have any experiences?
I have done a number of installations of GNU/Linux onto a thumb drive.  It is always handy to have a copy of RIPLinux (especially) in your pocket.  Since you seem to want a full distro, though, I recommend you try RMS GNU/Linux  (http://rmsgnulinux.org/)

RMS GNU/Linux is based on Slax, which is a distribution specifically for thumb drives.  It should be much more trivial to install than Ubuntu.  You just extract the archive to the drive, and then run an automated script which will set up the drive to be bootable.  

Please let us know if it works.

-Max


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Feb  9 19:01:32 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux user)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:01:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20100209190132.dac347a9.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I haven't installed Linux onto a USB FLASH drive, but I know that there are people out there who have.  You can go to that distro's forum and ask how to do this.

Have you tried Puppy Linux or antiX Linux?  Puppy Linux is user-friendly and very lightweight - not much more than 100MB.  The full installation of antiX Linux would take up something like 430 MB on the USB drive, but its speed is competitive with Puppy Linux.  antiX Linux really blows away Puppy Linux in the software repository.

I don't like Ubuntu because it's too slow and bloated, but then, my computers have only 256-384 MB of RAM.  Those with 1 GB of RAM or more would beg to differ.  Ubuntu has its merits, but operation on a slow machine and quick installation times are NOT among them.  So I don't think it would be suitable for a live CD or booting from the USB drive.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:35:46 -0600 (CST)
Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Has anyone here played with Linux on a USB thumbdrive? It seems more 
> convenient to me than carrying a LiveCD around, plus you can, you know, 
> save personalised settings.
> 
> I've been trying for a few days and have had... mixed results. I've 
> managed to get Ubuntu to make a copy of it's LiveCD on a thumbdrive, but 
> then you end up with an Ubuntu Live CD. Which would be better than 
> nothing, except even THAT doesn't always boot up all the way.
> 
> I've tried plain ol' installing Ubuntu on the thumbdrive (even going so 
> far as to remove the other harddrives from the system) but that won't boot 
> all the way, either - they get stuck on the splash screen somewhere (even 
> when I take "quiet" out of grub).
> 
> I know about Damn Small Linux, but I'd rather have a system thats a biiit 
> more current than 2.4 kernels and Firefox 2.0.
> 
> Anyone have any experiences?
> 
> 
> -Yaron
> 
> --
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Feb  9 20:09:00 2010
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:09:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <20100210005450.GZ2519@iris.iucha.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
	<20100210005450.GZ2519@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092002300.5475@localhost.localdomain>


On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 06:35:46PM -0600, Yaron wrote:

> How much Linux to you need?  I'm using SystemRescueCD [1] on an USB
> drive and it comes with Firefox, a few text editors.  I doubt running
> OpenOffice from a cheap USB drive would be a satisfying experience.

Well, first of all I can get an expensive USB thumbdrive (;

I don't think the thumb drive would be a problem with running OpenOffice, 
to be honest. I mean if it's booting on a halfway decent machine it'll be 
fine. And it'd be a nice option to have it.

What I really need, though, is Firefox and a terminal. Be nice to have 
something that'll autoconfigure on just about any hardware I plug the 
thing in - including being able to use whatever wifi adapter we might run 
into! That's one of the reasons I liked Ubuntu - thing just worked.

I can definitely look into Knoppix.

-Yaron

--


From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 20:13:46 2010
From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:13:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <20100209190132.dac347a9.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
	<20100209190132.dac347a9.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <be48c3341002091813r750230adn2ca51baab47b8221@mail.gmail.com>

I've had success running?http://www.backtrack-linux.org/?from the USB
drive with files/state/updates all to the flash drive.  Not too bad
for general-purpose use even.

Ron

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Jason Hsu, Linux user
<jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
>
> I haven't installed Linux onto a USB FLASH drive, but I know that there are people out there who have. ?You can go to that distro's forum and ask how to do this.
>
> Have you tried Puppy Linux or antiX Linux? ?Puppy Linux is user-friendly and very lightweight - not much more than 100MB. ?The full installation of antiX Linux would take up something like 430 MB on the USB drive, but its speed is competitive with Puppy Linux. ?antiX Linux really blows away Puppy Linux in the software repository.
>
> I don't like Ubuntu because it's too slow and bloated, but then, my computers have only 256-384 MB of RAM. ?Those with 1 GB of RAM or more would beg to differ. ?Ubuntu has its merits, but operation on a slow machine and quick installation times are NOT among them. ?So I don't think it would be suitable for a live CD or booting from the USB drive.
>
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:35:46 -0600 (CST)
> Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Has anyone here played with Linux on a USB thumbdrive? It seems more
> > convenient to me than carrying a LiveCD around, plus you can, you know,
> > save personalised settings.
> >
> > I've been trying for a few days and have had... mixed results. I've
> > managed to get Ubuntu to make a copy of it's LiveCD on a thumbdrive, but
> > then you end up with an Ubuntu Live CD. Which would be better than
> > nothing, except even THAT doesn't always boot up all the way.
> >
> > I've tried plain ol' installing Ubuntu on the thumbdrive (even going so
> > far as to remove the other harddrives from the system) but that won't boot
> > all the way, either - they get stuck on the splash screen somewhere (even
> > when I take "quiet" out of grub).
> >
> > I know about Damn Small Linux, but I'd rather have a system thats a biiit
> > more current than 2.4 kernels and Firefox 2.0.
> >
> > Anyone have any experiences?
> >
> >
> > -Yaron
> >
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> --
> Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--
http://ronspace.org/


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Feb  9 20:15:45 2010
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:15:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive (fwd)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092015220.5475@localhost.localdomain>


On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, Jason Hsu, Linux user wrote:

> Have you tried Puppy Linux or antiX Linux?  Puppy Linux is user-friendly and 
> very lightweight - not much more than 100MB.

Oh, I don't really need it to be that lightweight. Even a modest thumbdrive is 
like 8 gigs by now. So I don't feel the need to give up on the 
latest-and-greatest versions of some things.

> I don't like Ubuntu because it's too slow and bloated, but then, my computers 
> have only 256-384 MB of RAM.  Those with 1 GB of RAM or more would beg to 
> differ.

Yeah, I'd be one of those people. I'm not trying to build a lightweight Linux 
install - I just want to have a nice portable Linux install I can take with 
when I'll be at other peoples' place and I don't want to have to use their 
system. I don't really worry about having to run it on really old machines.

-Yaron

--


From dean at ripperd.com  Tue Feb  9 20:46:11 2010
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:46:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092015220.5475@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092015220.5475@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4B721DF3.1080201@ripperd.com>

Ubuntu is the way to go with this. Firefox, terminals, gparted, 
ntfsresize, ssh, fdisk, etc. All the tools you typically need to use 
from a usb stick. Not only that, but within the live USB environment, if 
you have a working internet connection you can apt-get install whatever 
application you need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator


From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 22:01:27 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:01:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092002300.5475@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain> 
	<20100210005450.GZ2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092002300.5475@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1002092001s243ef77l143b5c01d6a74204@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> I don't think the thumb drive would be a problem with running OpenOffice,
> to be honest. I mean if it's booting on a halfway decent machine it'll be
> fine. And it'd be a nice option to have it.
>
> What I really need, though, is Firefox and a terminal. Be nice to have
> something that'll autoconfigure on just about any hardware I plug the
> thing in - including being able to use whatever wifi adapter we might run
> into! That's one of the reasons I liked Ubuntu - thing just worked.

Hmm, I'm seeing mixed signals here.
What specifically about the Ubuntu live CD on the thumbdrive didn't
work for you?  And was it just the wifi you're referring to that "just
worked"?
I'm a bit shocked because I use thumbdrives with Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64
pretty much daily at work to test systems, and it is quite rare that I
find systems that don't boot properly.  I used the USB Startup Disk
Creator that is in the Administration menu of Ubuntu by default.  I'm
still using 9.04 only because 9.10 doesn't seem to like using the
"TORAM" boot option, and I haven't had time to figure out why.  And if
you aren't aware, that option is very nice because you can boot off
the thumbdrive, and then as soon as you get up to the desktop, you can
tell it to unmount the thumbdrive and run completely off RAM.  I don't
advise trying that in a system with less than 2GB of RAM, though.  Not
a problem for me, since most of the systems I test have a bare minimum
of 4GB.
With that last bit aside, I believe when you use the built in USB
Startup Disk Creator, it gives you an option to set aside a portion of
the thumdrive's capacity to store changes.  If you choose to do that,
changes you make to your user account should be persistent.  I'm not
sure if it goes so far as to save installed packages, but it should at
least save any changes you make to the UI for the next time you boot.
- Justin


From j at packetgod.com  Tue Feb  9 22:00:22 2010
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:00:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <4B721DF3.1080201@ripperd.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092015220.5475@localhost.localdomain>
	<4B721DF3.1080201@ripperd.com>
Message-ID: <38aa5b6a1002092000j9138802m36af2be94f25c9c3@mail.gmail.com>

I've used most types of Linux on a thumbdrive and they all work pretty
well.  In fact in the wireless hacking courses we taught they were all done
using live Backtrack distros running off of USB.

For really making things easy check out unetbooten... point and click USB
distro, even under Windows.

--j

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Dean <dean at ripperd.com> wrote:

> Ubuntu is the way to go with this. Firefox, terminals, gparted,
> ntfsresize, ssh, fdisk, etc. All the tools you typically need to use
> from a usb stick. Not only that, but within the live USB environment, if
> you have a working internet connection you can apt-get install whatever
> application you need.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Feb 10 00:40:11 2010
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:40:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a1002092001s243ef77l143b5c01d6a74204@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>
	<20100210005450.GZ2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092002300.5475@localhost.localdomain>
	<27e6356a1002092001s243ef77l143b5c01d6a74204@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002100034480.6620@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, Justin Kremer wrote:

> Hmm, I'm seeing mixed signals here.
> What specifically about the Ubuntu live CD on the thumbdrive didn't
> work for you?  And was it just the wifi you're referring to that "just
> worked"?

WiFi on Linux has been a thorn in my side for YEARS, so to have it just 
friggin WORK on Ubuntu was a big deal for me.

The Ubuntu Live CD on a USB Thumbdrive worked fine until I did a 
dist-upgrade. Then it wouldn't bootup anymore. I also don't like that it 
offers the live CD install options on boot-up and is, in fact, slower than 
all hell. Knoppix on a thumbdrive which boots up in like two minutes. 
Ubuntu takes about TEN (keep in mind I am testing this on a not-super-new 
laptop). I'd also have to rip out the live CD user and create my own user, 
etc, etc. I'd much rather just have a regular Ubuntu install.

And yeah, I am using the startup usb disk creator from the Ubuntu Live CD 
menu.


-Yaron

--


From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 02:54:38 2010
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:54:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 12 linux thumdrive
Message-ID: <25f02f41002100054k3946d28l6ac0754851c1e6bd@mail.gmail.com>

I have had success with Unetbootin and many Linux distrobutions. you can
partition the drive so you can save in free space. The fedora 12 on a usb
will make default storage for you.
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From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:58:24 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:58:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002100034480.6620@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain> 
	<20100210005450.GZ2519@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002092002300.5475@localhost.localdomain> 
	<27e6356a1002092001s243ef77l143b5c01d6a74204@mail.gmail.com> 
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002100034480.6620@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1002100658i7b291d2cqbd530c552c62d35a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> WiFi on Linux has been a thorn in my side for YEARS, so to have it just
> friggin WORK on Ubuntu was a big deal for me.

I agree.  I find it refreshing to be able to pop my Ubuntu thumbdrive
into ALMOST anything and have working networking as soon as the
desktop comes up.

> The Ubuntu Live CD on a USB Thumbdrive worked fine until I did a
> dist-upgrade. Then it wouldn't bootup anymore.

It may be that it doesn't know what to do when you install a new
kernel.  Have you tried running an upgrade instead of dist-upgrade?
I'm in the process of trying that right now.

> I also don't like that it
> offers the live CD install options on boot-up and is, in fact, slower than
> all hell. Knoppix on a thumbdrive which boots up in like two minutes.
> Ubuntu takes about TEN (keep in mind I am testing this on a not-super-new
> laptop). I'd also have to rip out the live CD user and create my own user,
> etc, etc. I'd much rather just have a regular Ubuntu install.

I don't know that there is any way to modify the boot menu options,
but I just tried and I was able to add a real user to one of my
thumbdrives and customize the interface, and at the next boot
everything stuck - including the key for the wireless network I
joined.
You may want to consider getting a better thumbdrive, as someone else
mentioned.  The laptop that I just tested this on isn't really old,
but it certainly isn't top of the line.  1GB RAM and 2ghz Core (not 2)
Duo.  It took a minute and a half from the time I hit Enter at the
boot menu until the login screen came up, since I told it NOT to auto
login, and that's not bad for this type of media.
- Justin


From bure4czar at msn.com  Wed Feb 10 11:11:02 2010
From: bure4czar at msn.com (Rick Blevins)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:11:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <be48c3341002091813r750230adn2ca51baab47b8221@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>,
	<20100209190132.dac347a9.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>,
	<be48c3341002091813r750230adn2ca51baab47b8221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT113-W419E6238D919E81AB4C381FB4F0@phx.gbl>


 


I just finished installing Puppy Arcade on flash drive. Worked perfectly, comes with an installer that you run from windows, reboot then you're done. Haven't explored the features yet. But the space invaders desktop is pretty sharp.
 
http://www.pendrivelinux.com/install-puppy-arcade-to-a-flash-drive-from-windows/



 
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:13:46 -0600
> From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com
> To: tclug at freakzilla.com
> CC: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
> 
> I've had success running http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ from the USB
> drive with files/state/updates all to the flash drive. Not too bad
> for general-purpose use even.
> 
> Ron
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Jason Hsu, Linux user
> <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> >
> > I haven't installed Linux onto a USB FLASH drive, but I know that there are people out there who have.  You can go to that distro's forum and ask how to do this.
> >
> > Have you tried Puppy Linux or antiX Linux?  Puppy Linux is user-friendly and very lightweight - not much more than 100MB.  The full installation of antiX Linux would take up something like 430 MB on the USB drive, but its speed is competitive with Puppy Linux.  antiX Linux really blows away Puppy Linux in the software repository.
> >
> > I don't like Ubuntu because it's too slow and bloated, but then, my computers have only 256-384 MB of RAM.  Those with 1 GB of RAM or more would beg to differ.  Ubuntu has its merits, but operation on a slow machine and quick installation times are NOT among them.  So I don't think it would be suitable for a live CD or booting from the USB drive.
> >
> > On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:35:46 -0600 (CST)
> > Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Has anyone here played with Linux on a USB thumbdrive? It seems more
> > > convenient to me than carrying a LiveCD around, plus you can, you know,
> > > save personalised settings.
> > >
> > > I've been trying for a few days and have had... mixed results. I've
> > > managed to get Ubuntu to make a copy of it's LiveCD on a thumbdrive, but
> > > then you end up with an Ubuntu Live CD. Which would be better than
> > > nothing, except even THAT doesn't always boot up all the way.
> > >
> > > I've tried plain ol' installing Ubuntu on the thumbdrive (even going so
> > > far as to remove the other harddrives from the system) but that won't boot
> > > all the way, either - they get stuck on the splash screen somewhere (even
> > > when I take "quiet" out of grub).
> > >
> > > I know about Damn Small Linux, but I'd rather have a system thats a biiit
> > > more current than 2.4 kernels and Firefox 2.0.
> > >
> > > Anyone have any experiences?
> > >
> > >
> > > -Yaron
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> --
> http://ronspace.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Feb 10 11:15:11 2010
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:15:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on a USB thumbdrive
In-Reply-To: <SNT113-W419E6238D919E81AB4C381FB4F0@phx.gbl>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002091830530.5351@localhost.localdomain>,
	<20100209190132.dac347a9.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>,
	<be48c3341002091813r750230adn2ca51baab47b8221@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT113-W419E6238D919E81AB4C381FB4F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002101113500.8955@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, Rick Blevins wrote:

> I just finished installing Puppy?Arcade on flash drive. Worked perfectly,
> comes with an installer that you run from?windows, reboot then you're done.

That's actually one of the things that's kinda bugging me about this whole 
thing - a hle lot of these have Windows-based installers and Windows-based 
instructions. I don't have any Windows machines I can use for that!


-Yaron

--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:46:31 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:46:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] installing Ubuntu from thumb drive
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002101237260.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I have installed Ubuntu from a thumb drive and it was pretty smooth and 
easy.  I did it once because I had no CD drive on a netbook and wanted 
Ubuntu Netbook Remix, and another time on a laptop with a flakey CD drive. 
The thing is, I used Ubuntu on another machine to make the USB, but I want 
to tell a friend far away using only Windows how he can do this.  Do you 
know of good instructions on how to make the Ubuntu installation thumb 
drive from a Windows box?

By the way, a young guy with a BA in Math told me he wanted to be a 
scientist so I told him that step #1 was to get rid of Windows, use Ubuntu 
and start learning R, bash, emacs, and so on.  I think Python would be a 
good idea too, but he's working mostly on stats right now and we don't 
want to do everything at once.  Funny thing is he already was using 
OpenOffice, GIMP, Firefox/Tbird and a bunch of other free software under 
Windows, so he has no real Windows-dependency problem.  He's the guy who 
needs the thumb drive.

Mike


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed Feb 10 13:13:50 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux user)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:13:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Programming PIC microcontrollers
Message-ID: <20100210131350.bd5496e8.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

If you are an electrical engineer or electronics hobbyist interested in programming PIC microcontrollers with C source code in Linux instead of Windows, I have been able to get things working in antiX Linux M8.2 with MPLAB version 8.43 (with  HI-TECH PICC 9.70) in WINE 1.0.1-1.  This combination gives me all of the functionality I had in Windows without requiring the use of Windows.

I tried using open source software in Linux (SDCC, GPSIM, PikLab/KTechLab) but kept running into problems.  The arrow pointing to the line of code never showed up when using GPSIM to simulate C code.  I also ran into issues like limitations in the selection of microcontrollers supported.  I admire what the open source developers are doing, but their work is not yet ready for prime time.

I had difficulty in the past trying to program microcontrollers with C source code in Puppy Linux.  I'm not sure if the issue was the older version of WINE, the older version of MPLAB (before HI-TECH PICC was integrated into MPLAB), or Puppy Linux itself.

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:18:19 2010
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:18:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list to mike on win creating Ubuntu thumb
	drives
Message-ID: <25f02f41002111018r17df9c76hd57778522f026a41@mail.gmail.com>

This will create thumb drives on windows and linux.
http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:00 PM, <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:

> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
>        tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. installing Ubuntu from thumb drive (Mike Miller)
>   2. Programming PIC microcontrollers (Jason Hsu, Linux user)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:46:31 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com <mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>>
> Subject: [tclug-list] installing Ubuntu from thumb drive
> To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002101237260.25364 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I have installed Ubuntu from a thumb drive and it was pretty smooth and
> easy.  I did it once because I had no CD drive on a netbook and wanted
> Ubuntu Netbook Remix, and another time on a laptop with a flakey CD drive.
> The thing is, I used Ubuntu on another machine to make the USB, but I want
> to tell a friend far away using only Windows how he can do this.  Do you
> know of good instructions on how to make the Ubuntu installation thumb
> drive from a Windows box?
>
> By the way, a young guy with a BA in Math told me he wanted to be a
> scientist so I told him that step #1 was to get rid of Windows, use Ubuntu
> and start learning R, bash, emacs, and so on.  I think Python would be a
> good idea too, but he's working mostly on stats right now and we don't
> want to do everything at once.  Funny thing is he already was using
> OpenOffice, GIMP, Firefox/Tbird and a bunch of other free software under
> Windows, so he has no real Windows-dependency problem.  He's the guy who
> needs the thumb drive.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:13:50 -0600
> From: "Jason Hsu, Linux user" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Programming PIC microcontrollers
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <20100210131350.bd5496e8.jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> If you are an electrical engineer or electronics hobbyist interested in
> programming PIC microcontrollers with C source code in Linux instead of
> Windows, I have been able to get things working in antiX Linux M8.2 with
> MPLAB version 8.43 (with  HI-TECH PICC 9.70) in WINE 1.0.1-1.  This
> combination gives me all of the functionality I had in Windows without
> requiring the use of Windows.
>
> I tried using open source software in Linux (SDCC, GPSIM, PikLab/KTechLab)
> but kept running into problems.  The arrow pointing to the line of code
> never showed up when using GPSIM to simulate C code.  I also ran into issues
> like limitations in the selection of microcontrollers supported.  I admire
> what the open source developers are doing, but their work is not yet ready
> for prime time.
>
> I had difficulty in the past trying to program microcontrollers with C
> source code in Puppy Linux.  I'm not sure if the issue was the older version
> of WINE, the older version of MPLAB (before HI-TECH PICC was integrated into
> MPLAB), or Puppy Linux itself.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu, Linux user <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 14
> ******************************************
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 23:19:12 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list to mike on win creating Ubuntu thumb
 drives
In-Reply-To: <25f02f41002111018r17df9c76hd57778522f026a41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25f02f41002111018r17df9c76hd57778522f026a41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002112317250.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, r j wrote:

> This will create thumb drives on windows and linux.
> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/


Perfect.  Thanks.  That looks like a really nice program.

Mike


From stutterstutt at comcast.net  Thu Feb 11 23:33:14 2010
From: stutterstutt at comcast.net (Jeff Nelson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:33:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] installing Ubuntu from thumb drive
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002101237260.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002101237260.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4B74E81A.8010408@comcast.net>

Mike Miller wrote:
> Do you 
> know of good instructions on how to make the Ubuntu installation thumb 
> drive from a Windows box?

http://wubi-installer.org/
http://lifehacker.com/5195999/portable-ubuntu-runs-ubuntu-inside-windows
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/virtualbox

Any one of these web pages give instructions on how to run Ubuntu on top 
of Windows. Once Ubuntu is up, you can make a live USB stick.

-Jeff


From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 23:42:07 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:42:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] installing Ubuntu from thumb drive
In-Reply-To: <4B74E81A.8010408@comcast.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002101237260.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4B74E81A.8010408@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002112142v27fbe01al4a9d38de2a2add@mail.gmail.com>

I'll vouch for ubuntu over virtualbox - it's worked flawlessly.

-Rob


On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Jeff Nelson <stutterstutt at comcast.net>wrote:

> Mike Miller wrote:
> > Do you
> > know of good instructions on how to make the Ubuntu installation thumb
> > drive from a Windows box?
>
> http://wubi-installer.org/
> http://lifehacker.com/5195999/portable-ubuntu-runs-ubuntu-inside-windows
> http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/virtualbox
>
> Any one of these web pages give instructions on how to run Ubuntu on top
> of Windows. Once Ubuntu is up, you can make a live USB stick.
>
> -Jeff
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Feb 12 17:58:16 2010
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:58:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Problem with Linux bridge and IPv6
Message-ID: <4B75EB18.1030208@mtu.net>

I've got a setup with Xen using bridging. The host is OpenSUSE Linux,
the guest is NetBSD. I have a bridge named br0 that bridges eth0 (my
physical interface) and vif22.0 (the interface for the NetBSD guest). My
NetBSD guest sends out an IPv6 packet. If I tcpdump on the network
interface inside the guest, I see the packet go out. If I tcpdump on
vif22.0 I see the packet, if I tcpdump on br0 I see the packet. If I
tcpdump on eth0 I don't see the packet. This means the packet isn't
going on the wire and it should. This all works fine with IPv4.

Any ideas?

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From tmarble at info9.net  Fri Feb 12 18:51:40 2010
From: tmarble at info9.net (Tom Marble)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:51:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Problem with Linux bridge and IPv6
In-Reply-To: <4B75EB18.1030208@mtu.net>
References: <4B75EB18.1030208@mtu.net>
Message-ID: <4B75F79C.2080309@info9.net>

Jon Schewe wrote:
> I've got a setup with Xen using bridging. The host is OpenSUSE Linux,
> the guest is NetBSD. I have a bridge named br0 that bridges eth0 (my
> physical interface) and vif22.0 (the interface for the NetBSD guest). My
> NetBSD guest sends out an IPv6 packet. If I tcpdump on the network
> interface inside the guest, I see the packet go out. If I tcpdump on
> vif22.0 I see the packet, if I tcpdump on br0 I see the packet. If I
> tcpdump on eth0 I don't see the packet. This means the packet isn't
> going on the wire and it should. This all works fine with IPv4.

Have you enabled IPv6 *completely* in the host kernel?

Does the following return anything?
% ifconfig eth0 | grep inet6

Is this output informative?
% grep -E 'I(P|PV|NET)6' /boot/config-`uname -r`

Kernel modules to consider:
ip6tables (for module names like ip6t_*)
iptunnel6
ipv6
nf_conntrack_ipv6
sit

Packages to consider for convenience
  (not required to get IPv6 pkts on eth0, names from Debian):
ipv6calc
ndisc6
netcat6
oping
radvd
rdisc6
sipcalc
traceroute
ucspi-tcp-ipv6
wireshark

HTH,

--Tom



From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Feb 12 19:09:25 2010
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:09:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Problem with Linux bridge and IPv6
In-Reply-To: <4B75F79C.2080309@info9.net>
References: <4B75EB18.1030208@mtu.net> <4B75F79C.2080309@info9.net>
Message-ID: <4B75FBC5.3050508@mtu.net>

On 02/12/2010 06:51 PM, Tom Marble wrote:
> Jon Schewe wrote:
>   
>> I've got a setup with Xen using bridging. The host is OpenSUSE Linux,
>> the guest is NetBSD. I have a bridge named br0 that bridges eth0 (my
>> physical interface) and vif22.0 (the interface for the NetBSD guest). My
>> NetBSD guest sends out an IPv6 packet. If I tcpdump on the network
>> interface inside the guest, I see the packet go out. If I tcpdump on
>> vif22.0 I see the packet, if I tcpdump on br0 I see the packet. If I
>> tcpdump on eth0 I don't see the packet. This means the packet isn't
>> going on the wire and it should. This all works fine with IPv4.
>>     
> Have you enabled IPv6 *completely* in the host kernel?
>
> Does the following return anything?
> % ifconfig eth0 | grep inet6
>
>   
Yes and the bridge interface as an inet6 address as well.

> Is this output informative?
> % grep -E 'I(P|PV|NET)6' /boot/config-`uname -r`
>
>   
CONFIG_IPV6=m
CONFIG_IPV6_PRIVACY=y
CONFIG_IPV6_ROUTER_PREF=y
CONFIG_IPV6_ROUTE_INFO=y
# CONFIG_IPV6_OPTIMISTIC_DAD is not set
CONFIG_INET6_AH=m
CONFIG_INET6_ESP=m
CONFIG_INET6_IPCOMP=m
CONFIG_IPV6_MIP6=m
CONFIG_INET6_XFRM_TUNNEL=m
CONFIG_INET6_TUNNEL=m
CONFIG_INET6_XFRM_MODE_TRANSPORT=m
CONFIG_INET6_XFRM_MODE_TUNNEL=m
CONFIG_INET6_XFRM_MODE_BEET=m
CONFIG_INET6_XFRM_MODE_ROUTEOPTIMIZATION=m
CONFIG_IPV6_SIT=m
CONFIG_IPV6_NDISC_NODETYPE=y
CONFIG_IPV6_TUNNEL=m
CONFIG_IPV6_MULTIPLE_TABLES=y
CONFIG_IPV6_SUBTREES=y
# CONFIG_IPV6_MROUTE is not set
CONFIG_IP_VS_IPV6=y
CONFIG_NF_CONNTRACK_IPV6=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_QUEUE=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_IPTABLES=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_AH=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_EUI64=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_FRAG=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_OPTS=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_HL=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_IPV6HEADER=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_MH=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MATCH_RT=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_TARGET_HL=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_TARGET_LOG=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_FILTER=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_TARGET_REJECT=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_MANGLE=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_RAW=m
CONFIG_IP6_NF_SECURITY=m
CONFIG_BRIDGE_EBT_IP6=m
CONFIG_SLIP_MODE_SLIP6=y

> Kernel modules to consider:
> ip6tables (for module names like ip6t_*)
> iptunnel6
> ipv6
> nf_conntrack_ipv6
> sit
>
>   
mn-server:~ # lsmod | egrep '(ip6|sit)'
ip6table_filter         4552  0
ip6_tables             26040  1 ip6table_filter
x_tables               29936  7
ip6_tables,ipt_LOG,ipt_MASQUERADE,iptable_nat,xt_state,xt_physdev,ip_tables

> Packages to consider for convenience
>   (not required to get IPv6 pkts on eth0, names from Debian):
> ipv6calc
> ndisc6
> netcat6
> oping
> radvd
> rdisc6
> sipcalc
> traceroute
> ucspi-tcp-ipv6
> wireshark
>
> HTH,
>
> --Tom
>
>   

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Feb 12 19:12:29 2010
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:12:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Problem with Linux bridge and IPv6
In-Reply-To: <4B75F79C.2080309@info9.net>
References: <4B75EB18.1030208@mtu.net> <4B75F79C.2080309@info9.net>
Message-ID: <4B75FC7D.3030100@mtu.net>

On 02/12/2010 06:51 PM, Tom Marble wrote:
> Jon Schewe wrote:
>   
>> I've got a setup with Xen using bridging. The host is OpenSUSE Linux,
>> the guest is NetBSD. I have a bridge named br0 that bridges eth0 (my
>> physical interface) and vif22.0 (the interface for the NetBSD guest). My
>> NetBSD guest sends out an IPv6 packet. If I tcpdump on the network
>> interface inside the guest, I see the packet go out. If I tcpdump on
>> vif22.0 I see the packet, if I tcpdump on br0 I see the packet. If I
>> tcpdump on eth0 I don't see the packet. This means the packet isn't
>> going on the wire and it should. This all works fine with IPv4.
>>     
> Have you enabled IPv6 *completely* in the host kernel?
>
> Does the following return anything?
> % ifconfig eth0 | grep inet6
>
> Is this output informative?
> % grep -E 'I(P|PV|NET)6' /boot/config-`uname -r`
>
> Kernel modules to consider:
> ip6tables (for module names like ip6t_*)
> iptunnel6
> ipv6
> nf_conntrack_ipv6
> sit
>
> Packages to consider for convenience
>   (not required to get IPv6 pkts on eth0, names from Debian):
> ipv6calc
> ndisc6
> netcat6
> oping
> radvd
> rdisc6
> sipcalc
> traceroute
> ucspi-tcp-ipv6
> wireshark
>
>   
Here's the firewall output as well:
mn-server:/etc/xen # ip6tables -L
Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination        

Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination        

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination   

mn-server:/etc/xen # iptables -L
Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination

Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif22.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif22.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif17.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif17.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif8.1
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif8.1
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif8.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif8.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif6.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif6.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif5.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif5.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif4.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif4.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED PHYSDEV match --physdev-out vif2.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            PHYSDEV
match --physdev-in vif2.0
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere
LOG        all  --  anywhere             anywhere            LOG level
warning
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            state
RELATED,ESTABLISHED
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere
LOG        all  --  anywhere             anywhere            LOG level
warning

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39



From zzabnr at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:19:57 2010
From: zzabnr at gmail.com (bnr bnr)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:19:57 -0800
Subject: [tclug-list] installing Ubuntu from thumb drive
Message-ID: <8aa998961002121919j482b41d9gb20aaac083a39b5d@mail.gmail.com>

> Do you know of good instructions on how to make the Ubuntu installation thumb
> drive from a Windows box?

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/create-a-ubuntu-9-10-live-usb-in-windows/

and if you want to try another distro they[pendrivelinux.com] cover at
least a dozen.


From sraun at fireopal.org  Sun Feb 14 21:00:42 2010
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:00:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Any Exim experts out there?
Message-ID: <20100215030042.GA25200@fireopal.org>

I'm trying to set up some e-mail using the -bm and -t switches to
Exim.  I think they'll do what I want to do.

Can anyone provide some pointers? I think I'm missing something
obvious - specifically, exactly how a "locally-generated, non-SMTP
message on the current input" is generate?

I need to send a largish quantity of customized e-mails - I have a
mailing database with information that is anywhere between six months
and three years old.  It has e-mail addresses & mailing addresses.  I
can make it generate either single files or one big file to feed into
exim (although I'd actually prefer one big one) - but I can't figure
out how to get exim to _take_ the data!

I've tried the following:

cat filename | exim -bm -t
exim -bm -t < filename

These both generate an e-mail, but it's not picking up my From or To
lines.

exim -bm -t filename

This requires a Control-D and then generates an empty e-mail.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Feb 15 08:37:06 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:37:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002151437.o1FEb6a30873@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: series 2 tivo

this is a series 2 tivo, i forget how much storage it has (80G, iirc, but don't quote me). it works perfectly, we just don't watch TV so i've ceased the service.  if you're curious about the interfaces and such, go here: http://bit.ly/cmvOys

lots of people hack on these things.  some folks want to try the service. 

Seller Email address: sulrich at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Feb 15 08:40:06 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:40:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002151440.o1FEe6C32377@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: series 2 tivo w/wireless adapter

this is an early version of the series 2 tivo.  it includes a tivo brand wireless adaptor.  i believe this is a 40G tivo, don't quote me on that.  it doesn't have an integrated ethernet interface as some of the later iterations of the series 2 tivo did.

you'll have to pony up your own USB cable or USB wired ethernet interface. but otherwise all of the series 2 tivo elements are there.

Seller Email address: sulrich at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Feb 15 08:42:25 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:42:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002151442.o1FEgP501124@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: upsampling DVD player

i finally upgraded to blu-ray.  this works perfectly.  includes remote.  for more information on this particular model, check here: 

http://bit.ly/c9DaUe

Seller Email address: sulrich at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 08:49:11 2010
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:49:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
Message-ID: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>

Hey folks,

Just a friendly warning about Okular (KDEs PDF viewer) - If you have
ever filled out a PDF form with okular (like something for your bank,
or your  taxes, etc) - Okular silently dumps all of the form data into
a clear text file inside the .kde folder in your home directory.  Even
if you only printed (didn't save) the PDF.

I don't think I'm overreacting to call this a really bad idea... but
the developers of Okular seem to think otherwise.

Dan


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:28:18 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:28:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Thanks, Dan.  I guess you mean that this is a kind of security/privacy 
issue, right?  What permissions does it give to that file?  Does this mean 
that someone could, conceivably, copy your Okular text file, download the 
same PDF and then see how you filled it in?

Mike


On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, Dan Armbrust wrote:

> Hey folks,
>
> Just a friendly warning about Okular (KDEs PDF viewer) - If you have 
> ever filled out a PDF form with okular (like something for your bank, or 
> your taxes, etc) - Okular silently dumps all of the form data into a 
> clear text file inside the .kde folder in your home directory.  Even if 
> you only printed (didn't save) the PDF.
>
> I don't think I'm overreacting to call this a really bad idea... but the 
> developers of Okular seem to think otherwise.
>
> Dan


From florin at iucha.net  Mon Feb 15 09:51:29 2010
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:51:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20100215155128.GH25460@iris.iucha.org>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 09:28:18AM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> Thanks, Dan.  I guess you mean that this is a kind of security/privacy
> issue, right?  What permissions does it give to that file?

File permissions matter on computers under your physical control.  A
shared home directory will be backed up on unencrypted tapes who'll
end up who knows where.

>                                                             Does this mean
> that someone could, conceivably, copy your Okular text file, download the
> same PDF and then see how you filled it in?

Even looking at the values, without the form, you could guess addresses,
phone numbers, ssns and other juicy bits.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:55:52 2010
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:55:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Dan.  I guess you mean that this is a kind of security/privacy
> issue, right?  What permissions does it give to that file?  Does this mean
> that someone could, conceivably, copy your Okular text file, download the
> same PDF and then see how you filled it in?
>
> Mike
>
>

Well, it's inside your user directory.  So it has whatever protections
that provides.

Personally, I keep my Tax forms inside of a true-crypt volume.  I
started filling out a form in Okular, Saved it, reopened it - was
pleasently surprised that it remembered the values I filled in.

But then I opened it in Adobe Reader, and it did not have the values I
filled in - so I knew something fishy was going on.

Then I found the data floating from the PDF form in an xml file,
outside of my truecrypt volume.

If you have ever downloaded a form from your bank, filled it out and
printed it (without ever clicking save) using okular - Okular just
dumped everything you typed into a clear text file on your harddisk.
And it never informs you of this, or gives you any choice about it.

Certainly not expected behavior.

Dan


From nesius at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:14:49 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:14:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002150814x227e71b9ue42d074406a5aa77@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Dan Armbrust <
daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> If you have ever downloaded a form from your bank, filled it out and
> printed it (without ever clicking save) using okular - Okular just
> dumped everything you typed into a clear text file on your harddisk.
> And it never informs you of this, or gives you any choice about it.
>
> Certainly not expected behavior.
>

Not expected and not acceptable.  Beyond the backup-tape scenario mentioned,
there are others that could cause problems.  Part of securing your identity
and information is knowing where the information is contained.  If your box
gets owned you might just reload it and think "No big deal - I had it backed
up and I didn't have anything sensitive on my drive."  Doh.

-Rob
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:06:22 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:06:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151103540.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, Dan Armbrust wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Dan.  I guess you mean that this is a kind of security/privacy 
>> issue, right?  What permissions does it give to that file?  Does this 
>> mean that someone could, conceivably, copy your Okular text file, 
>> download the same PDF and then see how you filled it in?
>
> Well, it's inside your user directory.  So it has whatever protections 
> that provides.

Plus whatever protections the file permissions provide.  If a directory is 
755 but a file in it is 600, that's better protection than if the file is 
644.  If they made the file 644 in a directory that is 755, that would be 
especially reckless, so I was wondering about that.  If they made the file 
600, that would suggest that they see the problem, but they think the file 
permission is enough to deal with it.

Mike


From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:44:29 2010
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:44:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151103540.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151103540.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <82f04dc41002150944o2893ed85v94882e8b6fe416b@mail.gmail.com>

> Plus whatever protections the file permissions provide. ?If a directory is
> 755 but a file in it is 600, that's better protection than if the file is
> 644. ?If they made the file 644 in a directory that is 755, that would be
> especially reckless, so I was wondering about that. ?If they made the file
> 600, that would suggest that they see the problem, but they think the file
> permission is enough to deal with it.
>
> Mike
>

dana at strongbad:~ =>ls -al .kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
total 4
drwx------ 2 dana dana  88 2010-02-15 11:43 .
drwx------ 3 dana dana 104 2010-02-15 11:43 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 dana dana 363 2010-02-15 11:43 31460.sample.pdf.xml


Sigh.  But the directory permissions above the file are 700.

The fact that the file even exists without the app informing me about
it is what irks me.

Dan


From florin at iucha.net  Mon Feb 15 13:12:49 2010
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:12:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc41002150944o2893ed85v94882e8b6fe416b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151103540.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150944o2893ed85v94882e8b6fe416b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100215191249.GJ25460@iris.iucha.org>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:44:29AM -0600, Dan Armbrust wrote:
> > Plus whatever protections the file permissions provide. ?If a directory is
> > 755 but a file in it is 600, that's better protection than if the file is
> > 644. ?If they made the file 644 in a directory that is 755, that would be
> > especially reckless, so I was wondering about that. ?If they made the file
> > 600, that would suggest that they see the problem, but they think the file
> > permission is enough to deal with it.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> 
> dana at strongbad:~ =>ls -al .kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
> total 4
> drwx------ 2 dana dana  88 2010-02-15 11:43 .
> drwx------ 3 dana dana 104 2010-02-15 11:43 ..
> -rw-r--r-- 1 dana dana 363 2010-02-15 11:43 31460.sample.pdf.xml
> 
> 
> Sigh.  But the directory permissions above the file are 700.
> 
> The fact that the file even exists without the app informing me about
> it is what irks me.

They wanted to be "user-friendly" and not scare or annoy you with the
warning dialog.  And in all fairness, most users will just
click-through it with reckless abandon.

Oh well,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:33:06 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:33:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <20100215191249.GJ25460@iris.iucha.org>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151103540.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150944o2893ed85v94882e8b6fe416b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100215191249.GJ25460@iris.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151528330.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:44:29AM -0600, Dan Armbrust wrote:
>
>>> Plus whatever protections the file permissions provide. ?If a 
>>> directory is 755 but a file in it is 600, that's better protection 
>>> than if the file is 644. ?If they made the file 644 in a directory 
>>> that is 755, that would be especially reckless, so I was wondering 
>>> about that. ?If they made the file 600, that would suggest that they 
>>> see the problem, but they think the file permission is enough to deal 
>>> with it.
>>
>>
>> dana at strongbad:~ =>ls -al .kde/share/apps/okular/docdata/
>> total 4
>> drwx------ 2 dana dana  88 2010-02-15 11:43 .
>> drwx------ 3 dana dana 104 2010-02-15 11:43 ..
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 dana dana 363 2010-02-15 11:43 31460.sample.pdf.xml
>>
>>
>> Sigh.  But the directory permissions above the file are 700.
>>
>> The fact that the file even exists without the app informing me about 
>> it is what irks me.
>
> They wanted to be "user-friendly" and not scare or annoy you with the 
> warning dialog.  And in all fairness, most users will just click-through 
> it with reckless abandon.


But they seem to save the file indefinitely.  If the user downloads a PDF 
file, fills it in, prints it out and deletes it, the foo.sample.pdf.xml 
file remains, possibly forever.

If I fill out a form, then I want my wife to fill out that same form using 
my account, I guess it would be tricky to figure out how to clear all of 
the fields.

It's just a very weird situation, isn't it?  I can see how it would make 
more customers happy than unhappy, but it's just bad practice.  They could 
prompt the user "save form data?", or something like that when the file is 
being closed.

Mike

From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:42:15 2010
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:42:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151528330.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151103540.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150944o2893ed85v94882e8b6fe416b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100215191249.GJ25460@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151528330.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <82f04dc41002151342g483f855ap2dcb99821211a5af@mail.gmail.com>

>
> But they seem to save the file indefinitely. ?If the user downloads a PDF
> file, fills it in, prints it out and deletes it, the foo.sample.pdf.xml file
> remains, possibly forever.
>
> If I fill out a form, then I want my wife to fill out that same form using
> my account, I guess it would be tricky to figure out how to clear all of the
> fields.
>
> It's just a very weird situation, isn't it? ?I can see how it would make
> more customers happy than unhappy, but it's just bad practice. ?They could
> prompt the user "save form data?", or something like that when the file is
> being closed.
>
> Mike

Yea, there are all sorts of problems with the approach that they took,
when you think about it for more than 20 seconds.

They could make it vastly better simply by:
1) Asking if you want the data saved
2) Storing the file in the same folder where the PDF resides on disk,
with a name that is the same as the file names, plus some specific
extension.

At least then, you would also have a clue that their "save" does not
implement a proper PDF form save at all.

Dan


From florin at iucha.net  Mon Feb 15 16:05:16 2010
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:05:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Warning about Okular and PDF files
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151528330.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <82f04dc41002150649s2c30a932w6ddd6eb4f106dc47@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002150925570.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150755h61d8686difdc860a35c2c8c29@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151103540.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<82f04dc41002150944o2893ed85v94882e8b6fe416b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100215191249.GJ25460@iris.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002151528330.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20100215220516.GL25460@iris.iucha.org>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 03:33:06PM -0600, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, Florin Iucha wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:44:29AM -0600, Dan Armbrust wrote:
>>
>>> The fact that the file even exists without the app informing me about it 
>>> is what irks me.
>>
>> They wanted to be "user-friendly" and not scare or annoy you with the 
>> warning dialog.  And in all fairness, most users will just click-through 
>> it with reckless abandon.
>
>
> But they seem to save the file indefinitely.  If the user downloads a PDF 
> file, fills it in, prints it out and deletes it, the foo.sample.pdf.xml 
> file remains, possibly forever.
>
> If I fill out a form, then I want my wife to fill out that same form using 
> my account, I guess it would be tricky to figure out how to clear all of 
> the fields.
>
> It's just a very weird situation, isn't it?  I can see how it would make 
> more customers happy than unhappy, but it's just bad practice.  They could 
> prompt the user "save form data?", or something like that when the file is 
> being closed.

I wholeheartedly agree that it was a completely boneheaded decision.

I understand the tension between security and usability, but I firmly
believe that the Okular developers made a bad call.  Just as some big
wig at Adobe was explaining how useful enabling JavaScript in Acrobat
Reader is, even though it is the backdoor for most of the PDF
infections and most of the people don't need the functionality at all.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Tue Feb 16 13:44:42 2010
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:44:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Any git experts out there?
Message-ID: <4B7AF5AA.7000007@mtu.net>

I've got a particular git workflow that doesn't appear to be working
like I had hoped it would.

I have 2 working dirs.
"connected" - most people have access to this one and data flows in and
out of it
"disconnected" - able to get data from "connected" here, but can't go
the other way, except by patches.

Attached is a shell script outlining what I'm trying to do. Note that
the last step fails with a conflict. I would not have expected this
given that the patch came from git and was applied by git, so I would
have expected it to keep the history correct so that when data goes back
to "disconnected" from "connected" git should notice that the change was
one that already exists in the "disconnected" working directory.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39

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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Wed Feb 17 17:55:41 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:55:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002172355.o1HNtfX07433@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: Dell c400

starting my spring cleaning early by parting with my Dell Latitude c400, or as I like to call it the poor man's netbook. 

1.2gHz processor, 512MB ram. No built-in wireless, but I'll include a NetGear PCMCIA adapter. I'm also throwing in two power adapters and two half-worthless batteries. 

Currently as CrunchBang linux installed. Screen and hinges are fully functional. 

The delete key is functional, but requires some extra effort. The hood has several stickers, including a HACKER sticker, an Ultimate Player's Assoc. (frisbee) sticker and a Glacier National Park (GNP) sticker. 

Asking price: $125, OBO. Available for pickup in downtown Minneapolis, or areas  in and around Eagan. 

Seller Email address: gscottwalters at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 19:13:34 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:13:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the web?
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>

Does anybody know of a LAMP-type software that will allow users to
upload/download files into their own directories via HTTP?  LAMP stack would
be preferred but we also have IIS servers and I'm not opposed to installing
something standalone if it does the job well.

-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Wed Feb 17 19:50:16 2010
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:50:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
 web?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>

You mean a WEBDAV server running either Python or Perl (the 'P' in LAMP).?

Perry Hoekstra

Donovan wrote:
> Does anybody know of a LAMP-type software that will allow users to 
> upload/download files into their own directories via HTTP?  LAMP stack 
> would be preferred but we also have IIS servers and I'm not opposed to 
> installing something standalone if it does the job well.  
>
> -- 
> Donovan Niesen
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:00:45 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:00:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
	web?
In-Reply-To: <4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>

While that could work, I'm trying to keep it very simple.  I'm not too
familiar with WEBDAV but don't you need to use something outside of the
browser to transfer files?

What I envision is a browser with a simple login page, upon login the user
is shown files associated to their username and a way to upload additional
files.  Wouldn't be too hard to whip up in a "P" of my choice (I'm a PHP
hack myself) but I was hoping to find something prebuilt that did just this.


On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Perry Hoekstra <dutchman_mn at charter.net>wrote:

> You mean a WEBDAV server running either Python or Perl (the 'P' in LAMP).?
>
> Perry Hoekstra
>
> Donovan wrote:
>
>> Does anybody know of a LAMP-type software that will allow users to
>> upload/download files into their own directories via HTTP?  LAMP stack would
>> be preferred but we also have IIS servers and I'm not opposed to installing
>> something standalone if it does the job well.
>> --
>> Donovan Niesen
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Wed Feb 17 21:15:07 2010
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (Perry Hoekstra)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:15:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
 web?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>
	<47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7CB0BB.6070402@charter.net>

No, but the directory where the files would go would have to be mounted 
as WEBDAV directory.  I am hoping a sysadmin can chime in here because 
while I have included WEBDAV as part of an application solution for a 
client, I did not do the nuts/bolts configuration of the environment 
that set it up.

Perry Hoekstra

Donovan wrote:
> While that could work, I'm trying to keep it very simple.  I'm not too 
> familiar with WEBDAV but don't you need to use something outside of 
> the browser to transfer files?  
>
> What I envision is a browser with a simple login page, upon login the 
> user is shown files associated to their username and a way to upload 
> additional files.  Wouldn't be too hard to whip up in a "P" of my 
> choice (I'm a PHP hack myself) but I was hoping to find something 
> prebuilt that did just this.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Perry Hoekstra 
> <dutchman_mn at charter.net <mailto:dutchman_mn at charter.net>> wrote:
>
>     You mean a WEBDAV server running either Python or Perl (the 'P' in
>     LAMP).?
>
>     Perry Hoekstra
>
>     Donovan wrote:
>
>         Does anybody know of a LAMP-type software that will allow
>         users to upload/download files into their own directories via
>         HTTP?  LAMP stack would be preferred but we also have IIS
>         servers and I'm not opposed to installing something standalone
>         if it does the job well.  
>         -- 
>         Donovan Niesen
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>          
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Donovan Niesen



From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:12:41 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:12:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
	web?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>
	<47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002172012w36c5ded8qe0e1566ecdb7e8f5@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like sharepoint, or a poor man's wiki, could be what you want.

Or skip the web server a go straight to ssh and sftp?

-Rob


On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> While that could work, I'm trying to keep it very simple.  I'm not too
> familiar with WEBDAV but don't you need to use something outside of the
> browser to transfer files?
>
> What I envision is a browser with a simple login page, upon login the user
> is shown files associated to their username and a way to upload additional
> files.  Wouldn't be too hard to whip up in a "P" of my choice (I'm a PHP
> hack myself) but I was hoping to find something prebuilt that did just this.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Perry Hoekstra <dutchman_mn at charter.net>wrote:
>
>> You mean a WEBDAV server running either Python or Perl (the 'P' in LAMP).?
>>
>> Perry Hoekstra
>>
>> Donovan wrote:
>>
>>> Does anybody know of a LAMP-type software that will allow users to
>>> upload/download files into their own directories via HTTP?  LAMP stack would
>>> be preferred but we also have IIS servers and I'm not opposed to installing
>>> something standalone if it does the job well.
>>> --
>>> Donovan Niesen
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Wed Feb 17 22:23:13 2010
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:23:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
	web?
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>
	<47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc1002172012w36c5ded8qe0e1566ecdb7e8f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0000095569@mail.penguinpackets.com>

Would something like this work?  

http://www.ajaxplorer.info/wordpress/about/  

Kelly
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From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:33:14 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:33:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
	web?
In-Reply-To: <0000095569@mail.penguinpackets.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>
	<47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc1002172012w36c5ded8qe0e1566ecdb7e8f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0000095569@mail.penguinpackets.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002172033v77a9224fw78c7761ed51d47a4@mail.gmail.com>

I was just thinking along these lines myself, Kelly.  It occurred to me that
Donovan was describing what is often referred to as a Document Management
System.  There are lots of them out there.... I did a search on "Open Source
Document Management System" and came up with a bunch of links, one of which
looks representative of what a lot of solutions (free or otherwise) may
have.

http://www.openkm.com/

-Rob


On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:23 PM, kelly <kelly.black at penguinpackets.com>wrote:

> Would something like this work?
>
> http://www.ajaxplorer.info/wordpress/about/
>
> Kelly
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From dniesen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:33:04 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:33:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
	web?
In-Reply-To: <0000095569@mail.penguinpackets.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>
	<47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc1002172012w36c5ded8qe0e1566ecdb7e8f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0000095569@mail.penguinpackets.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002172033q540aad59r6657ab2048d76e80@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:23 PM, kelly <kelly.black at penguinpackets.com>wrote:

> Would something like this work?
>
> http://www.ajaxplorer.info/wordpress/about/
>
> Kelly
>

This looks like it will fit the bill perfectly!  Thanks, Kelly!

-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Feb 18 10:08:00 2010
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:08:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
	web?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B650899195CE452B9713FA46AC966BB5@usicorp.usinternet.com>

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=php+file+manager

 

Sorry couldn't resist it.

 

There are some really nice looking ones though I have not actually had a
need myself for per user custom config (to lock users into their home
directory) I have used a few for general access. 

 

 

  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Donovan
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:14 PM
To: TCLUG List
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
web?

 

Does anybody know of a LAMP-type software that will allow users to
upload/download files into their own directories via HTTP?  LAMP stack would
be preferred but we also have IIS servers and I'm not opposed to installing
something standalone if it does the job well.  


-- 
Donovan Niesen

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From dniesen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:24:38 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:24:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
	web?
In-Reply-To: <1266509281970-032-2344195.jus.krytosvirus.com@sysadmin3>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1266509281970-032-2344195.jus.krytosvirus.com@sysadmin3>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002180824k648f8841uc2f6d6d939dcb646@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, add that site to my list of favorites.  Not the file manager but the
lmgtfy.com link.  I was struggling with conjuring the right search term
instead typing things like "web upload etc", must have needed some more
sleep.

Thanks!

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

>  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=php+file+manager
>
>
>
> Sorry couldn?t resist it.
>
>
>
> There are some really nice looking ones though I have not actually had a
> need myself for per user custom config (to lock users into their home
> directory) I have used a few for general access.
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:
> tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] *On Behalf Of *Donovan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> *To:* TCLUG List
> *Subject:* [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
> web?
>
>
>
> Does anybody know of a LAMP-type software that will allow users to
> upload/download files into their own directories via HTTP?  LAMP stack would
> be preferred but we also have IIS servers and I'm not opposed to installing
> something standalone if it does the job well.
>
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>



-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Feb 18 10:38:25 2010
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:38:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Simple file/upload with user authentication on the
 web?
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc1002172033v77a9224fw78c7761ed51d47a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002171713v32fd3052v3e2ddee6d88e516b@mail.gmail.com>	<4B7C9CD8.5060906@charter.net>	<47f4d5e71002171900q66489900xea4835b48ca65641@mail.gmail.com>	<cac10ddc1002172012w36c5ded8qe0e1566ecdb7e8f5@mail.gmail.com>	<0000095569@mail.penguinpackets.com>
	<cac10ddc1002172033v77a9224fw78c7761ed51d47a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D6D01.1050808@Goecke-Dolan.com>


I have used Owl UltraLite

http://owl.anytimecomm.com/

(The link brings you to the page for OWL, which a heavier Document 
Management system, under the downloads you can get Owl UltraLite. )

There is a public demo here,
http://owl.anytimecomm.com/demo-owl/demo-owl-ul

They also have a webdav interface....humm.... ( I don't know much about 
webdav).

Not exactly sure how that will work on a per-user basis.  But I would 
think you could figure something out.

==>brian.

Robert Nesius wrote:
> I was just thinking along these lines myself, Kelly.  It occurred to me 
> that Donovan was describing what is often referred to as a Document 
> Management System.  There are lots of them out there.... I did a search 
> on "Open Source Document Management System" and came up with a bunch of 
> links, one of which looks representative of what a lot of solutions 
> (free or otherwise) may have.
> 
> http://www.openkm.com/
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:23 PM, kelly <kelly.black at penguinpackets.com 
> <mailto:kelly.black at penguinpackets.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Would something like this work?
> 
>     http://www.ajaxplorer.info/wordpress/about/
> 
>     Kelly
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Thu Feb 18 13:13:27 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:13:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002181913.o1IJDRZ30243@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: Want to Buy

Subject: Cheap Old PC (Smaller the better)

I'm looking for a working and reliable old PC. Nothing fancy, can be a Pentium 2 with a 2GB harddrive. I'm building a pfsense box and looking for something on the cheap.

Seller Email address: aaronmill1 at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Feb 19 02:14:50 2010
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:14:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Authoring DVDs with Linux @PenguinsUnbound Linux
	Meeting Feb. 27th
Message-ID: <4B7E487A.1040102@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday February 27th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

This month at the PenguinsUnbound Meeting I will demonstrate how to 
author DVDs with Linux.  So you can take your home movies and play then 
on any DVD player!

Hope you are going to be able to make it.

==>brian.


From dniesen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:24:13 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:24:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free DNS hosting now that EveryDNS == DynDNS?
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>

Anybody have a recommendation for a free, self-managed DNS service (other
than hosting my own...)?

I always had freedns.afraid.org in the back of my mind but after looking
more closely, it seems that others can create subdomains under your domains
unless you sign up for the premium service ($60/year).

If there isn't a good alternative, I'll just bite the bullet and get a good
paid DNS service so recommendations in that arena would also be welcome.

-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From tclug at jfoo.org  Sat Feb 20 22:57:15 2010
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:57:15 -0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Free DNS hosting now that EveryDNS == DynDNS?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B80BD2B.1080207@jfoo.org>

Donovan wrote:
> Anybody have a recommendation for a free, self-managed DNS service 
> (other than hosting my own...)?

Check your domain registrar - they may host it. Godaddy does, it
is fairly usable. Free.

I ran my own for a few years to a server in my house via DSL,
that's not optimal.

j


From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 11:22:23 2010
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (Troy)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:22:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free DNS hosting now that EveryDNS == DynDNS?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34de7f3d1002210922y5e560011tadc245b30f32aea6@mail.gmail.com>

Have you tried DynDNS?  http://www.dyndns.com/  I use DynDNS and it works
great for my needs.

Troy

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Anybody have a recommendation for a free, self-managed DNS service (other
> than hosting my own...)?
>
> I always had freedns.afraid.org in the back of my mind but after looking
> more closely, it seems that others can create subdomains under your domains
> unless you sign up for the premium service ($60/year).
>
> If there isn't a good alternative, I'll just bite the bullet and get a good
> paid DNS service so recommendations in that arena would also be welcome.
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From andyschmid at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 11:49:03 2010
From: andyschmid at gmail.com (Andy Schmid)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:49:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free DNS hosting now that EveryDNS == DynDNS?
In-Reply-To: <34de7f3d1002210922y5e560011tadc245b30f32aea6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<34de7f3d1002210922y5e560011tadc245b30f32aea6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7b7c42a31002210949j23b803d6q17924805e3fbaaa4@mail.gmail.com>

I use XNAME.ORG for primary and secondary DNS servers on my domains.  It
does everything I need, and totally free.


On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you tried DynDNS?  http://www.dyndns.com/  I use DynDNS and it works
> great for my needs.
>
> Troy
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anybody have a recommendation for a free, self-managed DNS service (other
>> than hosting my own...)?
>>
>> I always had freedns.afraid.org in the back of my mind but after looking
>> more closely, it seems that others can create subdomains under your domains
>> unless you sign up for the premium service ($60/year).
>>
>> If there isn't a good alternative, I'll just bite the bullet and get a
>> good paid DNS service so recommendations in that arena would also be
>> welcome.
>>
>> --
>> Donovan Niesen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From dniesen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 14:41:42 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:41:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free DNS hosting now that EveryDNS == DynDNS?
In-Reply-To: <7b7c42a31002210949j23b803d6q17924805e3fbaaa4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<34de7f3d1002210922y5e560011tadc245b30f32aea6@mail.gmail.com>
	<7b7c42a31002210949j23b803d6q17924805e3fbaaa4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002211241n8b06e59s877bea8ebafc6599@mail.gmail.com>

XName looks like it will fit the bill nicely.  Thanks for the tip!

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Andy Schmid <andyschmid at gmail.com> wrote:

> I use XNAME.ORG for primary and secondary DNS servers on my domains.  It
> does everything I need, and totally free.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you tried DynDNS?  http://www.dyndns.com/  I use DynDNS and it works
>> great for my needs.
>>
>> Troy
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody have a recommendation for a free, self-managed DNS service (other
>>> than hosting my own...)?
>>>
>>> I always had freedns.afraid.org in the back of my mind but after looking
>>> more closely, it seems that others can create subdomains under your domains
>>> unless you sign up for the premium service ($60/year).
>>>
>>> If there isn't a good alternative, I'll just bite the bullet and get a
>>> good paid DNS service so recommendations in that arena would also be
>>> welcome.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Donovan Niesen
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>


-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From trieff at greencaremankato.com  Mon Feb 22 10:00:25 2010
From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:00:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
Message-ID: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKOEICGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>

TCLUG,
I am trying to configure Samba.
Went to reboot and now it hangs at the fstab.
I opened fstab and uncommented the last line.
That did not help and I cannot get to a command prompt.
Any ideas???
Tom
 
Thomas Rieff
GreenCare
1717 3rd Avenue
Mankato, MN 56001
(507) 344-8314 Office
(507) 344-8316 Fax
(507) 381-0660 Cell
 
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From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Feb 22 10:02:41 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:02:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002221602.o1MG2fQ03287@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 1U Server

Supermicro SuperServer 5013G-M
Celeron 2.0 Ghz
256MB DDR2
40GB SATA HD
Motherboard Supermicro P4SGE

Server is one of the short 14" 1U Models Supermicro sells.

Manufacturer Link: http://tinyurl.com/ycbxnbr

$80.00 - Cash only

Note: Decommissioned server from our datacenter.

Seller Email address: tclugsales at iexposure dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Mon Feb 22 10:09:08 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:09:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002221609.o1MG98404220@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 1U Server - Pentium 4

Supermicro SuperServer 5013C-M
Pentium 4 2.8 Ghz
1024MB DDR2
36GB SATA HD (WD Raptor)
Motherboard Supermicro P4SGE

Server is one of the short 14" 1U Models Supermicro sells.

Manufacturer Link: http://tinyurl.com/ycbxnbr

$160.00 - Cash only

Note: Decommissioned server from our datacenter.

Seller Email address: tclugsales at iexposure dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Mon Feb 22 10:14:54 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:14:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKOEICGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
References: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKOEICGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
Message-ID: <4B82AD7E.9000602@soul-dev.com>

On 2/22/2010 10:00 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote:
> *TCLUG,*
>
> *I am trying to configure Samba.*
>
> *Went to reboot and now it hangs at the fstab.*
>
> *I opened fstab and uncommented the last line.*
>
> *That did not help and I cannot get to a command prompt.*
>
> *Any ideas???*
>
> *Tom*

What are the contents of fstab? Did you make any modifications to it 
(such as adding mount points) after installing samba?

You can try to interrupt the fs mount by hitting ctrl-c at the hang. I 
have this problem (not really a problem) on my freebsd laptop (on WiFi) 
since the interface does not come up until after attempting to mount 
fstab NFS mounts, which hangs until I interrupt the mount process.

What is your syslog/kernel messages telling you?

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From dan at dburkland.com  Mon Feb 22 13:20:15 2010
From: dan at dburkland.com (Dan Burkland)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:20:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
Message-ID: <75C99E4E-B16E-4998-B964-57AFDDF37E09@dburkland.com>

One option would be to use autofs to mount the share rather than  
defining it in /etc/fstab.

Regards,

Dan

Sent from my iPhone


From kc0iog at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 21:54:23 2010
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:54:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
In-Reply-To: <75C99E4E-B16E-4998-B964-57AFDDF37E09@dburkland.com>
References: <75C99E4E-B16E-4998-B964-57AFDDF37E09@dburkland.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da1002221954j4691d6mb0c723072afb2374@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Dan Burkland <dan at dburkland.com> wrote:
> One option would be to use autofs to mount the share rather than
> defining it in /etc/fstab.

Are you sure it's hanging at the fstab and not whatever process is
next?  Don't recall if sys5init uses a 'mountall' type command, could
be that smbd is trying to start and it LOOKS like /etc/fstab is
hanging.

Otherwise, post the /etc/fstab and we'll taker a look.

Brian


From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:30:09 2010
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:30:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKOEICGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
References: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKOEICGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
Message-ID: <cac45c241002230730t461a09fbq6387a82c2a82f687@mail.gmail.com>

Thomas,

Your message is a bit unclear. You installed/configured samba, and now
when you reboot your system hangs at mounting file systems in fstab?
Unless you modified fstab in some way these two are unrelated. What
are you trying to accomplish with samba? Why did you edit fstab?

What exactly is it you're trying to do? Automatically mount SMB share
on boot? If this is the case, did you test mounting the file system
before rebooting? If not, do that next time and resolve the issue
before you have an unbootable system. Once you do have things
resolved, keep in mind your system may hang if the remote server is
unavailable. Using autofs may work better, or your can throw a noauto
flag into your fstab for the SMB file system so that Linux doesn't try
to mount it automatically.

In the mean time, have you tried bringing up your system in single
user mode? Does that work or does the system still hang?

What distribution are you using?

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com


From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Feb 23 09:35:47 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:35:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002231535.o1NFZlL02272@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Sale

Subject: 1U - 4 Drive hot-swap with HW RAID Controller

For Sale: Supermicro SuperServer 5014C-MT
Pentium 4 3.0 Ghz
2x1024MB DDR2 400 ECC
4x80GB SATA HD (Seagate)
Adaptec 2420SA RAID Controller 256MB RAM on-board (Yes this is a real RAID controller) PCI-X
Motherboard Supermicro P8SCT

Server is a 4 drive hot swap full length model with the mounting rails included.


Manufacturer Link: 
http://tinyurl.com/7s9tt

$560.00 OBO - Cash only

Note: Decommissioned server from our datacenter.

Seller Email address: tclugsales at iexposure dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:36:56 2010
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:36:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using Intel binary linux video card drivers?
Message-ID: <82f04dc41002230736y57906574hdb397d2f258207e6@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone used the Intel Linux Binary Video card drivers recently?

Do they work well?

I'm looking to build a MythTV box, and thinking of getting a
Motherboard with an integrated Intel GMA X4500HD video system... but
it would be nice to know ahead of time if the Intel driver works worth
anything in Linux... or should I stick with NVidia (which I know to
work great)?

And no, don't suggest ATI.  I've been down that road... never going back :)

Thanks,

Dan


From john.meier at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:51:04 2010
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:51:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using Intel binary linux video card drivers?
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc41002230736y57906574hdb397d2f258207e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82f04dc41002230736y57906574hdb397d2f258207e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65293fcc1002230751jf40c376x4e45bfc97cfcd1c2@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm looking to build a MythTV box, and thinking of getting a
> Motherboard with an integrated Intel GMA X4500HD video system... but
> it would be nice to know ahead of time if the Intel driver works worth
> anything in Linux... or should I stick with NVidia (which I know to
> work great)?
>
>
Stick with NVidia.  One less thing you'll have to muck around with.
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From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Feb 23 10:04:30 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:04:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using Intel binary linux video card drivers?
In-Reply-To: <82f04dc41002230736y57906574hdb397d2f258207e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82f04dc41002230736y57906574hdb397d2f258207e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B83FC8E.4000701@soul-dev.com>

On 2/23/2010 9:36 AM, Dan Armbrust wrote:
> Anyone used the Intel Linux Binary Video card drivers recently?
>
> Do they work well?
>
> I'm looking to build a MythTV box, and thinking of getting a
> Motherboard with an integrated Intel GMA X4500HD video system... but
> it would be nice to know ahead of time if the Intel driver works worth
> anything in Linux... or should I stick with NVidia (which I know to
> work great)?
>
> And no, don't suggest ATI.  I've been down that road... never going back :)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
I have been using the Intel GMA video chipsets for quite a while, and 
have had no problems whatsoever with video playback of many different 
qualities and sizes, ranging from your standard 800MB avi, to high 
quality 1080P 12-15MB H.264 Codec. The only problem chipset I have seen 
is the GMA 500 (see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_500_on_Linux).

You also are considering a much more beefy chipset that I have (I have 
the x3100), and they share the same driver (xorg-video-intel) which I 
believe has been open sourced.

Most of the devices I play around with have a wide range of GMA 
chipsets, of which, of which all had accelerated 2D and 3D (With the 
exception of the 500).

~Mr. M

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Feb 23 10:14:40 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:14:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone using Intel binary linux video card drivers?
In-Reply-To: <4B83FC8E.4000701@soul-dev.com>
References: <82f04dc41002230736y57906574hdb397d2f258207e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B83FC8E.4000701@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <4B83FEF0.4060202@soul-dev.com>

On 2/23/2010 10:04 AM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
> On 2/23/2010 9:36 AM, Dan Armbrust wrote:
>> Anyone used the Intel Linux Binary Video card drivers recently?
>>
>> Do they work well?
>>
>> I'm looking to build a MythTV box, and thinking of getting a
>> Motherboard with an integrated Intel GMA X4500HD video system... but
>> it would be nice to know ahead of time if the Intel driver works worth
>> anything in Linux... or should I stick with NVidia (which I know to
>> work great)?
>>
>> And no, don't suggest ATI.  I've been down that road... never going back :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dan
>>
> I have been using the Intel GMA video chipsets for quite a while, and
> have had no problems whatsoever with video playback of many different
> qualities and sizes, ranging from your standard 800MB avi, to high
> quality 1080P 12-15MB H.264 Codec. The only problem chipset I have seen
>
Sorry, I meant 12-15GB, not 12-15MB. There I go again ;-(

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From trieff at greencaremankato.com  Tue Feb 23 12:23:23 2010
From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:23:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1266948003.4591.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKKEJAGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>

TCLUG,
Thanks for the responses so far. I have not had time to spend on it.
Maybe this evening. I will respond when I can uncomment what I did in fstab.
Tom

Thomas Rieff
GreenCare
1717 3rd Avenue
Mankato, MN 56001
(507) 344-8314 Office
(507) 344-8316 Fax
(507) 381-0660 Cell





From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Feb 23 12:24:42 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:24:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201002231824.o1NIOgg07950@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: 19in monitor and 2 x 17in monitors

F R E E
19" old school monitor.
Brand:  GEM

Still works great.  

Also, I have 2 x 17" old school monitors.  


Seller Email address: mkebob1134 at netscape dot net

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From trieff at greencaremankato.com  Wed Feb 24 07:49:43 2010
From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:49:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1266948003.4591.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKMEJIGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>

TCLUG,
I had a chance to play with a live cd last night to see if I could get to
the fstab file, but it would not see my drives.
Here is what I got.
Ubuntu 9.10-64 server edition on new machine
I set up Ubuntu software raid with md0 boot, md1 as root, and md2 as swap.
I was in the process of configuring samba and rebooted.
It was hanging at a spot, which looked like the last statement in fstab.
I could control d and it would give me a command prompt.
I commented the last line in fstab and rebooted.
Now it hangs and I can not get back to a prompt to undue this part.
Tried the live cd to find the md1 drive set, but no luck.
Any thoughts???
Tom


Thomas Rieff
GreenCare
1717 3rd Avenue
Mankato, MN 56001
(507) 344-8314 Office
(507) 344-8316 Fax
(507) 381-0660 Cell




From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:38:27 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:38:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKMEJIGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
References: <mailman.3.1266948003.4591.tclug-list@mn-linux.org> 
	<NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKMEJIGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1002240638g74a5df65rdfc34deae7452291@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Thomas Rieff
<trieff at greencaremankato.com> wrote:
> I commented the last line in fstab and rebooted.
> Now it hangs and I can not get back to a prompt to undue this part.
> Tried the live cd to find the md1 drive set, but no luck.
> Any thoughts???

Tom,
As someone else mentioned, seeing your fstab may help us to help you.
When you say you tried the Ubuntu live CD, I'm guessing that's the
desktop one?  I don't remember the server one being a live CD.  I'm
not positive, but I don't think the standard desktop live CD comes
with the tools required for manipulating software RAIDs.  You may need
to connect the system to the Internet after booting the live CD and
install the necessary packages.  (mdadm and ???)
I would suspect that possibly there was nothing wrong with the
/etc/fstab file, but something else was wrong, and arbitrarily
commenting out the last line of the fstab caused your system not to
mount something important on boot...like your /  partition?
The other helpful piece of information would be to know what precisely
you were doing to set up samba on this system.  You haven't described
that very well.  Knowing specific steps you took, rather than a very
vague "trying to configure samba" goes a long way in figuring out what
might have gone wrong.
- Justin


From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 09:33:31 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:33:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] /etc/fstab
In-Reply-To: <NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKIEJLGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
References: <27e6356a1002240638g74a5df65rdfc34deae7452291@mail.gmail.com> 
	<NFBBIBPNOLDCJFNNJHHKIEJLGGAA.trieff@greencaremankato.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1002240733m1e936503pe8d1af42330a8bc3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Thomas Rieff
<trieff at greencaremankato.com> wrote:
> As someone else mentioned, seeing your fstab may help us to help you.
> How can I get to it???

Booting from something else (cd or usb device) and opening the file from there

> When you say you tried the Ubuntu live CD, I'm guessing that's the
> desktop one?
> Yes
...
> Yes you are probably right. Maybe quicker to reinstall. Bummer.

Well, possibly if you were only in the process of initially setting
things up.  But as I mentioned, you can also boot to the live CD and
install the necessary packages within the live session.

> I was setting up the samba.conf ?file for global shares, etc.

Well, making changes to the samba.conf (/etc/samba/smb.conf?) wouldn't
also make changes to your /etc/fstab file, so that file was probably
just fine.  You may be best to undo any changes made to the fstab,
then focus on your smb.conf.
Also, a tip when working on configuration files: sometimes it can be
handy to copy the file to filename-old (or whatever you prefer) before
editing the file.  Then if you REALLY screw something up, you can copy
the -old file back over top of the original and be back where you
started.
- Justin


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Wed Feb 24 17:05:31 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:05:31 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
Message-ID: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>

I have started using Alpine to my Usenet activities, and I cannot for the 
life of me figure out how to make it default to bottom post when I reply 
to a message.

Any ideas how to config Alpine to when I reply the cursor will goto the 
end of the message, and not start at line 1?

Many Thanks,

B-o-B


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Feb 24 18:02:28 2010
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:02:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002241801390.2224@localhost.localdomain>

Hi there,

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Mr. B-o-B wrote:

> Any ideas how to config Alpine to when I reply the cursor will goto the
> end of the message, and not start at line 1?

Maybe Alpine's designed to help maintain good netiquette?

I dunno that there's an option, but you can always just hold down ctrl-v 
for a while.


-Yaron

--


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Wed Feb 24 21:23:52 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:23:52 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002241801390.2224@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002241801390.2224@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002242123080.580@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>

Yaron cried from the depths of the abyss...

> Hi there,
>
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
>
>> Any ideas how to config Alpine to when I reply the cursor will goto the
>> end of the message, and not start at line 1?
>
> Maybe Alpine's designed to help maintain good netiquette?
>
> I dunno that there's an option, but you can always just hold down ctrl-v
> for a while.
>
>
> -Yaron
>

Thanks.  ctrl-v is better than nothing.

B-o-B


From dniesen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:27:36 2010
From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:27:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free DNS hosting now that EveryDNS == DynDNS?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002211241n8b06e59s877bea8ebafc6599@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<34de7f3d1002210922y5e560011tadc245b30f32aea6@mail.gmail.com>
	<7b7c42a31002210949j23b803d6q17924805e3fbaaa4@mail.gmail.com>
	<47f4d5e71002211241n8b06e59s877bea8ebafc6599@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47f4d5e71002250527j54099332yeb9986d8ea25b865@mail.gmail.com>

I found another company doing free DNS with apparently no strings attached:

http://www.namecheap.com/freedns/free-manage-dns.aspx

<http://www.namecheap.com/freedns/free-manage-dns.aspx>In case anybody else
is still looking around.  Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> XName looks like it will fit the bill nicely.  Thanks for the tip!
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Andy Schmid <andyschmid at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I use XNAME.ORG for primary and secondary DNS servers on my domains.  It
>> does everything I need, and totally free.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you tried DynDNS?  http://www.dyndns.com/  I use DynDNS and it
>>> works great for my needs.
>>>
>>> Troy
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anybody have a recommendation for a free, self-managed DNS service
>>>> (other than hosting my own...)?
>>>>
>>>> I always had freedns.afraid.org in the back of my mind but after
>>>> looking more closely, it seems that others can create subdomains under your
>>>> domains unless you sign up for the premium service ($60/year).
>>>>
>>>> If there isn't a good alternative, I'll just bite the bullet and get a
>>>> good paid DNS service so recommendations in that arena would also be
>>>> welcome.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Donovan Niesen
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>



-- 
Donovan Niesen
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From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:43:22 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:43:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free DNS hosting now that EveryDNS == DynDNS?
In-Reply-To: <47f4d5e71002250527j54099332yeb9986d8ea25b865@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47f4d5e71002200824p582a949etff6faf0e4d6676fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<34de7f3d1002210922y5e560011tadc245b30f32aea6@mail.gmail.com>
	<7b7c42a31002210949j23b803d6q17924805e3fbaaa4@mail.gmail.com>
	<47f4d5e71002211241n8b06e59s877bea8ebafc6599@mail.gmail.com>
	<47f4d5e71002250527j54099332yeb9986d8ea25b865@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1002250743g7cde8102k752f69158982031b@mail.gmail.com>

I've used name-cheap.  I had no problems.  I'm not sure if they cap the
number of free domains before they start charging...

-Rob


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:

> I found another company doing free DNS with apparently no strings attached:
>
> http://www.namecheap.com/freedns/free-manage-dns.aspx
>
> <http://www.namecheap.com/freedns/free-manage-dns.aspx>In case anybody
> else is still looking around.  Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> XName looks like it will fit the bill nicely.  Thanks for the tip!
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Andy Schmid <andyschmid at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I use XNAME.ORG for primary and secondary DNS servers on my domains.  It
>>> does everything I need, and totally free.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Troy <troythetechguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you tried DynDNS?  http://www.dyndns.com/  I use DynDNS and it
>>>> works great for my needs.
>>>>
>>>> Troy
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Donovan <dniesen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anybody have a recommendation for a free, self-managed DNS service
>>>>> (other than hosting my own...)?
>>>>>
>>>>> I always had freedns.afraid.org in the back of my mind but after
>>>>> looking more closely, it seems that others can create subdomains under your
>>>>> domains unless you sign up for the premium service ($60/year).
>>>>>
>>>>> If there isn't a good alternative, I'll just bite the bullet and get a
>>>>> good paid DNS service so recommendations in that arena would also be
>>>>> welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Donovan Niesen
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Donovan Niesen
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Donovan Niesen
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:06:45 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:06:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Mr. B-o-B wrote:

> I have started using Alpine to my Usenet activities, and I cannot for 
> the life of me figure out how to make it default to bottom post when I 
> reply to a message.
>
> Any ideas how to config Alpine to when I reply the cursor will goto the 
> end of the message, and not start at line 1?


I am on the Alpine list and can ask there.  Ctrl-v isn't quite what you 
want.  You can jump directly to the top or bottom of even very long 
messages with these keystrokes:

bottom  Ctrl-w Ctrl-v
top     Ctrl-w Ctrl-y

Mike


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Feb 25 10:17:05 2010
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:17:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251015400.14380@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Mike Miller wrote:

> bottom  Ctrl-w Ctrl-v
> top     Ctrl-w Ctrl-y

I'm only replying so I can try that out (: Cool, learn something new every 
day. Although frankly holding down ctrl-v probably takes less time than 
two keystrokes.

Also "Search-PageDown"? How is that intuitive?...

-Yaron

--


From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 25 10:16:24 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:16:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4B86A258.2070900@me.com>

The same as pico and nano for those used to that program.

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
>
>   
>> I have started using Alpine to my Usenet activities, and I cannot for 
>> the life of me figure out how to make it default to bottom post when I 
>> reply to a message.
>>
>> Any ideas how to config Alpine to when I reply the cursor will goto the 
>> end of the message, and not start at line 1?
>>     
>
>
> I am on the Alpine list and can ask there.  Ctrl-v isn't quite what you 
> want.  You can jump directly to the top or bottom of even very long 
> messages with these keystrokes:
>
> bottom  Ctrl-w Ctrl-v
> top     Ctrl-w Ctrl-y
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 12:27:14 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:27:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251015400.14380@localhost.localdomain>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251015400.14380@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251224590.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Yaron wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> bottom  Ctrl-w Ctrl-v
>> top     Ctrl-w Ctrl-y
>
> I'm only replying so I can try that out (: Cool, learn something new 
> every day. Although frankly holding down ctrl-v probably takes less time 
> than two keystrokes.

Sure, but if the doc is long, or the connection is slow, or you are using 
a handheld device where a screen isn't very many lines, then you'll be 
glad you know the trick.


> Also "Search-PageDown"? How is that intuitive?...

Right.  I also *hate* the Ctrl-u and Ctrl-y in Alpine -- why not stick 
with the emacs keystrokes?  It would have been so easy.  I guess Pine 
didn't want to get into use of the Alt key.

Mike


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 16:32:42 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:32:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251525560.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
>
>> I have started using Alpine to my Usenet activities, and I cannot for 
>> the life of me figure out how to make it default to bottom post when I 
>> reply to a message.
>> 
>> Any ideas how to config Alpine to when I reply the cursor will goto the 
>> end of the message, and not start at line 1?
>
>
> I am on the Alpine list and can ask there.


They reminded my of the "_CURSORPOS_" token that can be placed in the 
signature file.  It's a good way to deal with this.  We had a few messages 
about it back in November 2008.  See below.  Also look for CURSORPOS here:

Note that an Alpine documentation pages on signatures has this token 
misspelled as CURSORSPOS.  Apparently there are a gazillion of these 
secret keywords:

http://saul.baizman.net/node/63

Mike



Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:02:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Miller
To: Alpine Forum List <alpine-info at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] Reply Top Posting

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, M.RossARR wrote:
>
>> Pine & Alpine offers the signature to be at the top or bottom via:
>> Setup-Config
>> [ -Reply Preferences- ]
>>     [X]  signature-at-bottom
>> 
>> I will assume most users set it for bottom! Makes sense!
>> 
>> Yet when reply is triggered, the cursor is always found at the top
>> waiting to type, so off goes the writer top posting! It's natural!
>> 
>
> If you include in your signature the special token _CURSORPOS_, you can 
> choose where the cursor is placed when replying.
>
> Using what seems to be your signature as an example, you would change it to 
> everything between the lines of hyphens here:
>
> ---------------------------------------
> _CURSORPOS_
>
> --
> The Best to You & Yours,
> M. Ross All Rights Reserved
> mrossarr at nixsyspaus.org
> ---------------------------------------
>
> Combine it with the signature-at-bottom option, and it should behave as 
> you want.


Nobody replied to the above, so I'm resending it in the hope that it will 
be noticed.  It is amazing what features of Alpine have been hidden from 
me for many years -- maybe I just need to look harder.  The _CURSORPOS_ 
token is one of them.

Mike



Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:18:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Miller
To: Chaitat Piriyastit
Cc: Alpine Forum List <alpine-info at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] Reply Top Posting

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Chaitat Piriyastit wrote:

> Err... I am not sure if my post is related or not.  But what I do in my 
> daily life is to create 4 files in my home directory:
>
> .s1 .s2 .s3 .s4
>
> These are all my signature in plain text file.  And I place my signature 
> by CTRL+R .s[1-4] in the composer area.


It's a little off of the original topic, but I also do what you do.  I 
start with the cursor on top and I edit the message I am replying to 
before attaching my message (as above:  I trimmed off a few unneeded 
things).  This time I am not attaching a signature.

For people who want bottom posting and a signature, the _CURSORPOS_ token 
looks like an excellent solution to me -- and it requires no modification 
of the code.  If they don't want a signature at all, but they want bottom 
posting, they can create a signature that consists only of _CURSORPOS_ and 
possibly some newlines.  They just need to enable "Signature at Bottom" in 
the "Reply Preferences" section of Setup -> Config.

    [ Reply Preferences ]

        [X]  Signature at Bottom

So I think Alpine already does what people want it to do.

Mike


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Thu Feb 25 19:57:17 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:57:17 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251525560.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251525560.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002251955360.4072@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>

Mike Miller cried from the depths of the abyss...

> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
>> 
>>> I have started using Alpine to my Usenet activities, and I cannot for the 
>>> life of me figure out how to make it default to bottom post when I reply 
>>> to a message.
>>> 
>>> Any ideas how to config Alpine to when I reply the cursor will goto the 
>>> end of the message, and not start at line 1?
>> 
>> 
>> I am on the Alpine list and can ask there.
>
>
> They reminded my of the "_CURSORPOS_" token that can be placed in the 
> signature file.  It's a good way to deal with this.  We had a few messages 
> about it back in November 2008.  See below.  Also look for CURSORPOS here:
>
> Note that an Alpine documentation pages on signatures has this token 
> misspelled as CURSORSPOS.  Apparently there are a gazillion of these secret 
> keywords:
>
> http://saul.baizman.net/node/63
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:02:29 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mike Miller
> To: Alpine Forum List <alpine-info at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] Reply Top Posting
>
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, M.RossARR wrote:
>> 
>>> Pine & Alpine offers the signature to be at the top or bottom via:
>>> Setup-Config
>>> [ -Reply Preferences- ]
>>>     [X]  signature-at-bottom
>>> 
>>> I will assume most users set it for bottom! Makes sense!
>>> 
>>> Yet when reply is triggered, the cursor is always found at the top
>>> waiting to type, so off goes the writer top posting! It's natural!
>>> 
>> 
>> If you include in your signature the special token _CURSORPOS_, you can 
>> choose where the cursor is placed when replying.
>> 
>> Using what seems to be your signature as an example, you would change it to 
>> everything between the lines of hyphens here:
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------
>> _CURSORPOS_
>> 
>> --
>> The Best to You & Yours,
>> M. Ross All Rights Reserved
>> mrossarr at nixsyspaus.org
>> ---------------------------------------
>> 
>> Combine it with the signature-at-bottom option, and it should behave as you 
>> want.
>
>
> Nobody replied to the above, so I'm resending it in the hope that it will be 
> noticed.  It is amazing what features of Alpine have been hidden from me for 
> many years -- maybe I just need to look harder.  The _CURSORPOS_ token is one 
> of them.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:18:17 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mike Miller
> To: Chaitat Piriyastit
> Cc: Alpine Forum List <alpine-info at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] Reply Top Posting
>
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Chaitat Piriyastit wrote:
>
>> Err... I am not sure if my post is related or not.  But what I do in my 
>> daily life is to create 4 files in my home directory:
>> 
>> .s1 .s2 .s3 .s4
>> 
>> These are all my signature in plain text file.  And I place my signature by 
>> CTRL+R .s[1-4] in the composer area.
>
>
> It's a little off of the original topic, but I also do what you do.  I start 
> with the cursor on top and I edit the message I am replying to before 
> attaching my message (as above:  I trimmed off a few unneeded things).  This 
> time I am not attaching a signature.
>
> For people who want bottom posting and a signature, the _CURSORPOS_ token 
> looks like an excellent solution to me -- and it requires no modification of 
> the code.  If they don't want a signature at all, but they want bottom 
> posting, they can create a signature that consists only of _CURSORPOS_ and 
> possibly some newlines.  They just need to enable "Signature at Bottom" in 
> the "Reply Preferences" section of Setup -> Config.
>
>   [ Reply Preferences ]
>
>       [X]  Signature at Bottom
>
> So I think Alpine already does what people want it to do.
>
> Mike
>


Thank You all.  The _CURSORPOS_ in the .sig file works well enough for 
what I desire.

Rock on TCLUGer's.

Mr. B-o-B




From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 21:02:16 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:02:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Kinda OT - PINE / ALPINE Config question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002251955360.4072@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
References: <alpine.WNT.2.00.1002241703020.5744@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251004470.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1002251525560.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.WNT.2.00.1002251955360.4072@bobs_laptop.LCL.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1002252051420.25364@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Mr. B-o-B wrote:

> Thank You all.  The _CURSORPOS_ in the .sig file works well enough for 
> what I desire.


You're welcome, but allow me to recommend *trimming*.  In other words, you 
don't have to include an entire chain of messages in a reply.  I know it's 
easier for the author to not consider the needs of the reader, but as a 
reader I really appreciate the small effort.  This consideration does 
limit the value of _CURSORPOS_, of course, but maybe you will earn more in 
gratitude what you will lose in time.

Mike


From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Feb 26 09:22:41 2010
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:22:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Authoring DVDs with Linux @PenguinsUnbound
 Linux Meeting Feb. 27th
Message-ID: <4B87E741.8000000@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday February 27th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

This month at the PenguinsUnbound Meeting I will demonstrate how to
author DVDs with Linux.  So you can take your home movies and play then
on any DVD player!

Hope you are going to be able to make it.

==>brian.



From chechugarriga at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 09:50:56 2010
From: chechugarriga at gmail.com (chechu garguez)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:50:56 +0100
Subject: [tclug-list] Slow transfers from Samba to Windows 7 and Vista
Message-ID: <dc8100ca1002270750h4cbb7af9ofd3741d8c260a002@mail.gmail.com>

ethtool -s eth0 speed 100 duplex full autoneg off


Hi. I am writing to You because your post on 2006 is still helpful and gives
us a 10x samba connectivity enhancement. Thanks so much. Those are the
things that makes me love open source and Debian GNU environments. Take
care.
Yours sincerely Chechugarriga
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