From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Fri Jan  1 09:20:36 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:20:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201001011520.o01FKar05614@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Cisco 678

Comes with modem, power cable, phone cable, serial management cable, ethernet cable.

Seller Email address: johntrammell at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Fri Jan  1 22:24:56 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux User)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:24:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
Message-ID: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

As an engineer, I like Ubuntu's strong repository (has Scilab and software for programming microcontrollers) but would prefer something more lightweight, especially since Ubuntu ends support of older versions while making newer versions more power-hungry. With each revision, some users of older computers get cut off and forced to another distro.

I tried Debian, but it requires MUCH more tweaking to get it working, and it takes a LONG time to install it. I've been spoiled by Puppy Linux (so user-friendly and so lightweight), but it's software repository is weak, and I had difficulty with the Woof system (perhaps it will be better by 4.3.2 or 4.3.3).

So what other Linux distros have a good repository like Ubuntu and are at least as user-friendly but are lighter-weight?  What lightweight distros are compatible with the Ubuntu and/or Debian repository?  Are Slackware and Gentoo distros I should consider?  If they have strong repositories but are user-unfriendly, are there derivative distros that are compatible with their repositories?

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux User <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 22:47:23 2010
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:47:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <254fef0f1001012047x541b3d8dmee052098a372fc24@mail.gmail.com>

It doesn't have officially-supported status (yet - Mark has expressed
interest), but the one I'm currently keeping a close eye on is Lubuntu
- Ubuntu with an LXDE desktop.  LXDE is the first environment I've
found that manages to be both lightweight *and* easily understandable
for relatively new users.  Conveniently enough, as of Ubuntu 9.10 all
you need to do to get it is install a minimal Ubuntu system (use the
alternate CD), and 'apt-get install lubuntu-desktop' for a selection
of default packages, or pick and choose your own.  The 10.04 release
should be very solid from the looks of it.

A note about support / repositories:
Remember that Ubuntu does have LTS (Long Term Support) versions, with
the desktop side being supported for 3 years and the underlying and
server stuff for 5 years.
Even after the support period ends, you can still find repositories
for EOL versions at old-releases.ubuntu.com

 - Tony Yarusso


From strayf at freeshell.org  Fri Jan  1 23:00:45 2010
From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:00:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <4B3ED2FD.1060200@freeshell.org>

Jason Hsu, Linux User wrote:
> [...]
> So what other Linux distros have a good repository like Ubuntu and
> are at least as user-friendly but are lighter-weight?  What
> lightweight distros are compatible with the Ubuntu and/or Debian
> repository?  Are Slackware and Gentoo distros I should consider?  If
> they have strong repositories but are user-unfriendly, are there
> derivative distros that are compatible with their repositories?

Have you tried the Xubuntu version of Ubuntu? Xubuntu is basically
Ubuntu with the Xfce desktop -- a lightweight, but still pretty
intuitive and user-friendly system in my opinion. That way you've got
the full Ubuntu repository, but without the heavyweight desktop from
GNOME or KDE.

Or install regular Ubuntu, but just use a different desktop/window
manager like fluxbox or something. But that would involve more of a
learning curve.


From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 23:18:47 2010
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:18:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <4B3ED2FD.1060200@freeshell.org>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<4B3ED2FD.1060200@freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <254fef0f1001012118i2d96565fo1251c9d22fc34c64@mail.gmail.com>

Xubuntu isn't actually any lighter than Ubuntu with Gnome - that's a
myth.  They have very similar memory usage, and these days sometimes
Xubuntu is even heavier.  It's a nice alternative with a bit different
feel, but it's not lightweight.

 - Tony Yarusso


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Sat Jan  2 00:08:09 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux User)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 00:08:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] List of # of packages in each distro's repository
Message-ID: <20100102000809.8f5e0dab.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

Is there a list showing the number of available packages in a repository for all of the major Linux distros?  I know that Debian and Ubuntu are at the top while Puppy Linux and Damn Small Linux would be pretty far down in the rankings.  Most distros don't seem to advertise the strength of their repositories.

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux User <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From goodstuff9 at msn.com  Sat Jan  2 00:09:23 2010
From: goodstuff9 at msn.com (goodstuff9 at msn.com)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 00:09:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP491DCCBCBC7C93089D7A358D760@phx.gbl>

Take a look at "masonux": http://sites.google.com/site/masonux/home

Jason Hsu, Linux User wrote:
> As an engineer, I like Ubuntu's strong repository (has Scilab and software for programming microcontrollers) but would prefer something more lightweight, especially since Ubuntu ends support of older versions while making newer versions more power-hungry. With each revision, some users of older computers get cut off and forced to another distro.
>
> I tried Debian, but it requires MUCH more tweaking to get it working, and it takes a LONG time to install it. I've been spoiled by Puppy Linux (so user-friendly and so lightweight), but it's software repository is weak, and I had difficulty with the Woof system (perhaps it will be better by 4.3.2 or 4.3.3).
>
> So what other Linux distros have a good repository like Ubuntu and are at least as user-friendly but are lighter-weight?  What lightweight distros are compatible with the Ubuntu and/or Debian repository?  Are Slackware and Gentoo distros I should consider?  If they have strong repositories but are user-unfriendly, are there derivative distros that are compatible with their repositories?
>
>   


From gm5729 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 00:11:27 2010
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (GK)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 00:11:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <20100101234950.64e5477a.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<66026d801001012147i31efbaceo8eda82400bfc2309@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100101234950.64e5477a.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <1262412687.4420.49.camel@localhost>


http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=cae


http://linuxappfinder.com/package/scilab


http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Science-and-Engineering/Mathematics/Scilab-19592.shtml


http://alternativeto.net/desktop/scilab/


http://www.archlinux.org/packages/2/?q=tw



My post about distros still stands. There are about 8 specific binary
distros. And you can get it form source and MatLab is an alternative or
one of them. I'm Partial to Arch. Remember just because a "new" animal
comes out, or theres and update. Unless it is a security issue or to fix
a specific bug in your application/process. I am of the school of DON'T
touch a production machine thats working! Using a production machine
like a desktop user or to help as a "beta" tester is a bad idea.





On Fri, 2010-01-01 at 23:49 -0600, Jason Hsu, Linux User wrote:
> This is for a laptop for Project Phoenix, an IEEE study group working on an open source blood pressure monitor.  I don't need Scilab and the microcontroller programming software to be included in the distro - repository access is good enough.
> 
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 23:47:05 -0600
> gm5729 <gm5729 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Since you didn't specifically state if this is for a enterprise
> > environment or home, but you did state you are an engineer that uses
> > specialty software. There are a few "sciencetific distros out on
> > distro watch. In some ways it sounds like you want your cake and eat
> > it too. Speciatly apps outside of a general use on a desktop are going
> > to take a while and will probably have to be compiled by source, more
> > so if it is a higher mathematical app for enterprise truly going to be
> > put on a server. Now VMWare is the gold standard for virtualization.
> > It "may" be that some has already created an image for the app you
> > need and its for lack of a better term ""plug and play". Debian,
> > ArchLinux, I think is called scientific linux look for what you need
> > and Gentoo I would say have the best bet of fitting your bill
> > withsomeone maintaining a binary. Arch, Gentoo might not have it in
> > binary form but have it in a pkgbuild. If it is a tarball from the
> > application manager then Linux is Linux it will run on any version if
> > the dependencies are met, and it may take some getting your hands
> > dirty. I can say though that Debian is i386 compiled, Arch is i686,
> > Slack is i486, Gentoo is probably what you make it because it is
> > mainly source built.
> > 
> > VampirePenguin
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 22:24, Jason Hsu, Linux User
> > <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> > > As an engineer, I like Ubuntu's strong repository (has Scilab and software for programming microcontrollers) but would prefer something more lightweight, especially since Ubuntu ends support of older versions while making newer versions more power-hungry. With each revision, some users of older computers get cut off and forced to another distro.
> > >
> > > I tried Debian, but it requires MUCH more tweaking to get it working, and it takes a LONG time to install it. I've been spoiled by Puppy Linux (so user-friendly and so lightweight), but it's software repository is weak, and I had difficulty with the Woof system (perhaps it will be better by 4.3.2 or 4.3.3).
> > >
> > > So what other Linux distros have a good repository like Ubuntu and are at least as user-friendly but are lighter-weight?  What lightweight distros are compatible with the Ubuntu and/or Debian repository?  Are Slackware and Gentoo distros I should consider?  If they have strong repositories but are user-unfriendly, are there derivative distros that are compatible with their repositories?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason Hsu, Linux User <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > -- 
> > NOTICE:
> > GNUPG validated with key 0xD537A8E1. Questionable validations please
> > verify by phone for authenticity. RTF, TXT, LaTeX, PDF and DJVU files
> > inline or by attachment are gladly accepted. Confidentiality
> > guaranteed only by strong encrypted formats whether sent or received
> > from me. HTML, chain mail or other forms of SPAM deleted upon RECEIPT!
> > Windows GNUPG Version:
> > ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/binary/gnupg-w32cli-1.4.10b.exe
> > Bcrypt encryption, all platforms:
> > http://bcrypt.sourceforge.net/
> 
> 


-- 
NOTICE:
GNUPG validated with key 0xD537A8E1. Questionable
validations please verify by phone for authenticity.
RTF, TXT, LaTeX, PDF and DJVU files inline or by
attachment are gladly accepted. Confidentiality
guaranteed only by strong encrypted formats whether 
sent or received from me. HTML, chain mail or other 
forms of SPAM deleted upon RECEIPT!
Windows GNUPG Version:
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Bcrypt encryption, all platforms:
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From gm5729 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 00:34:16 2010
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (GK)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 00:34:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP491DCCBCBC7C93089D7A358D760@phx.gbl>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP491DCCBCBC7C93089D7A358D760@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1262414056.4420.53.camel@localhost>

Interesting. While teh author of that website commented on his
"project". He is remastering and providing that remastered ISO while
keeping the other things from Ubuntu untouched. He even provides the
"remastering" tool which I am assuming is GPL'd. If he just made a copy
of an Ubuntu file on a "flash" stick and then gave it to a friend that
is not a remastering it's just a copy. If this person is not providing
source code he is in TOTAL violation of GPL.




On Sat, 2010-01-02 at 00:09 -0600, goodstuff9 at msn.com wrote:
> Take a look at "masonux": http://sites.google.com/site/masonux/home
> 
> Jason Hsu, Linux User wrote:
> > As an engineer, I like Ubuntu's strong repository (has Scilab and software for programming microcontrollers) but would prefer something more lightweight, especially since Ubuntu ends support of older versions while making newer versions more power-hungry. With each revision, some users of older computers get cut off and forced to another distro.
> >
> > I tried Debian, but it requires MUCH more tweaking to get it working, and it takes a LONG time to install it. I've been spoiled by Puppy Linux (so user-friendly and so lightweight), but it's software repository is weak, and I had difficulty with the Woof system (perhaps it will be better by 4.3.2 or 4.3.3).
> >
> > So what other Linux distros have a good repository like Ubuntu and are at least as user-friendly but are lighter-weight?  What lightweight distros are compatible with the Ubuntu and/or Debian repository?  Are Slackware and Gentoo distros I should consider?  If they have strong repositories but are user-unfriendly, are there derivative distros that are compatible with their repositories?
> >
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
NOTICE:
GNUPG validated with key 0xD537A8E1. Questionable
validations please verify by phone for authenticity.
RTF, TXT, LaTeX, PDF and DJVU files inline or by
attachment are gladly accepted. Confidentiality
guaranteed only by strong encrypted formats whether 
sent or received from me. HTML, chain mail or other 
forms of SPAM deleted upon RECEIPT!
Windows GNUPG Version:
ftp://ftp.gnupg.org/gcrypt/binary/gnupg-w32cli-1.4.10b.exe
Bcrypt encryption, all platforms:
http://bcrypt.sourceforge.net/



From chewie at wookimus.net  Sat Jan  2 13:37:13 2010
From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 13:37:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> 
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <15372.1262461033@skuld.wookimus.net>

I was going to say use Gentoo, but if you think Debian requires
Tweaking, you're not going to enjoy Gentoo.  To get a custom, tweaked,
faster system with only the packages you want, you can do worse than to
use Gentoo.  The trade off is that you'll constantly be tweaking and
compiling packages to stay up to date.  Not a great environment to have
for production, but fun for a desktop.

Not really sure what your focus is, though.  Are you running on older
equipment?  Can you upgrade the RAM in your machine? Are you interested
in faster computation of mathematical algorithms?  Using R, Matlab, or
Mathmatica?  Or are you simply not in to graphically intense desktops.

Tips for a faster Ubuntu experience: Compile and use the proprietary
display drivers.  (ATI/Nvidia, etc.)  Turn off Visual Effects in the
Appearance Preferences.  Or simply use a different desktop.  I use Wmii
for a no-frills yet very functional experience.  I only load
applications I want, but then again, that's how I've always done it with
Debian and Ubuntu.  I can't say I've seen this power-hungry monster
you're describing for Ubnutu.  Don't want a full desktop, install with
the alternative CD instead.

(I'm also curious why you think Debian takes a long time to install.)

Anyway.  Good luck!

Chad


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sat Jan  2 15:20:53 2010
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 21:20:53 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
Message-ID: <5747592-1262467316-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-412007592-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I have two instances of Ubuntu server versions running, I have not specifically compared to the regular desktop edition but I presume it is significantly lighter. 
------Original Message------
From: Tony Yarusso
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
To: tclug-list
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
Sent: Jan 1, 2010 11:18 PM

Xubuntu isn't actually any lighter than Ubuntu with Gnome - that's a
myth.  They have very similar memory usage, and these days sometimes
Xubuntu is even heavier.  It's a nice alternative with a bit different
feel, but it's not lightweight.

 - Tony Yarusso

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile


From troythetechguy at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 07:19:48 2010
From: troythetechguy at gmail.com (troythetechguy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:19:48 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <0016e64610e28faf5d047c4275e6@google.com>

Yesterday I installed Crunchbang on an older HP laptop that was running  
Ubuntu 8.10 but getting slow. Thus far I've had a great experience with  
Crunchbang, but time will be the true test of this distro.  
http://crunchbanglinux.org/

Troy

On Jan 1, 2010 10:24pm, "Jason Hsu, Linux User" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>  
wrote:
> As an engineer, I like Ubuntu's strong repository (has Scilab and  
> software for programming microcontrollers) but would prefer something  
> more lightweight, especially since Ubuntu ends support of older versions  
> while making newer versions more power-hungry. With each revision, some  
> users of older computers get cut off and forced to another distro.



> I tried Debian, but it requires MUCH more tweaking to get it working, and  
> it takes a LONG time to install it. I've been spoiled by Puppy Linux (so  
> user-friendly and so lightweight), but it's software repository is weak,  
> and I had difficulty with the Woof system (perhaps it will be better by  
> 4.3.2 or 4.3.3).



> So what other Linux distros have a good repository like Ubuntu and are at  
> least as user-friendly but are lighter-weight? What lightweight distros  
> are compatible with the Ubuntu and/or Debian repository? Are Slackware  
> and Gentoo distros I should consider? If they have strong repositories  
> but are user-unfriendly, are there derivative distros that are compatible  
> with their repositories?



> --

> Jason Hsu, Linux User jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>



> _______________________________________________

> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Mon Jan  4 11:35:23 2010
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:35:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <0016e64610e28faf5d047c4275e6@google.com>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> 
	<0016e64610e28faf5d047c4275e6@google.com>
Message-ID: <d3ac1cd31001040935i199c54e8v866b8479e2db2bf3@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW, I also have had great experience with Crunchbang. It's a little
old, but fantastic speed and beautifully simple interface

2010/1/3  <troythetechguy at gmail.com>:
> Yesterday I installed Crunchbang on an older HP laptop that was running
> Ubuntu 8.10 but getting slow. Thus far I've had a great experience with
> Crunchbang, but time will be the true test of this distro.
> http://crunchbanglinux.org/
>
> Troy
>
> On Jan 1, 2010 10:24pm, "Jason Hsu, Linux User" <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> wrote:
>> As an engineer, I like Ubuntu's strong repository (has Scilab and software
>> for programming microcontrollers) but would prefer something more
>> lightweight, especially since Ubuntu ends support of older versions while
>> making newer versions more power-hungry. With each revision, some users of
>> older computers get cut off and forced to another distro.
>>
>>
>>
>> I tried Debian, but it requires MUCH more tweaking to get it working, and
>> it takes a LONG time to install it. I've been spoiled by Puppy Linux (so
>> user-friendly and so lightweight), but it's software repository is weak, and
>> I had difficulty with the Woof system (perhaps it will be better by 4.3.2 or
>> 4.3.3).
>>
>>
>>
>> So what other Linux distros have a good repository like Ubuntu and are at
>> least as user-friendly but are lighter-weight? ?What lightweight distros are
>> compatible with the Ubuntu and/or Debian repository? ?Are Slackware and
>> Gentoo distros I should consider? ?If they have strong repositories but are
>> user-unfriendly, are there derivative distros that are compatible with their
>> repositories?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jason Hsu, Linux User jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>



-- 
Mark Katerberg


From ryanjcole at me.com  Mon Jan  4 17:48:27 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:48:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] NIC failures
Message-ID: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>

I have a RealTek 816x NIC in my FreeBSD 8.0 box, this is the same machine I was having issues with last month with ACPI. I've swapped out the hard drive and did a full system install last night and at 2AM the NIC gave out.

When I run /etc/rc.d/netif restart I get  the normal processing data about my NICs and then this:
re0: reset never completed!
re0: PHY write failed
re0: PHY write failed
re0: PHY write failed
re0: PHY write failed
re0: PHY write failed

And it proceeds to bring lo0 and re0 back up, but re0 has it's listed static IP but is not discoverable on the network.

A reboot can temporarily fix this but I want to avoid rebooting every 4-6 hours automatically (for obvious reasons).

I've found patches referencing 7.1 but not 8.x.

I can post more details if you need, just point me where you need me to look for them.

--
Ryan
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Mon Jan  4 18:02:28 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:02:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] NIC failures
In-Reply-To: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
References: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
Message-ID: <5EE74014-2FC7-4580-ABFE-5E568BE90536@me.com>

I should add this is a brand new NIC as of October, I believe.

On Jan 4, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> I have a RealTek 816x NIC in my FreeBSD 8.0 box, this is the same machine I was having issues with last month with ACPI. I've swapped out the hard drive and did a full system install last night and at 2AM the NIC gave out.
> 
> When I run /etc/rc.d/netif restart I get  the normal processing data about my NICs and then this:
> re0: reset never completed!
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed
> 
> And it proceeds to bring lo0 and re0 back up, but re0 has it's listed static IP but is not discoverable on the network.
> 
> A reboot can temporarily fix this but I want to avoid rebooting every 4-6 hours automatically (for obvious reasons).
> 
> I've found patches referencing 7.1 but not 8.x.
> 
> I can post more details if you need, just point me where you need me to look for them.
> 
> --
> Ryan
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 12:34:33 2010
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:34:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] NIC failures
In-Reply-To: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
References: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da1001051034l223d730fpdaa4162eac7d6717@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> When I run /etc/rc.d/netif restart?I get ?the normal processing data about
> my NICs and then this:
> re0: reset never completed!
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed
> re0: PHY write failed

A quick Google search (sorry, not a FreeeBSD guy) brought me to
several articles addressing the issue in 7.1, guessing those are the
same that you found.  Have you tried any of the FreeBSD releases
mentioned in which this is supposedly fixed?

Brian


From ryanjcole at me.com  Tue Jan  5 12:42:07 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:42:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] NIC failures
In-Reply-To: <2c6699da1001051034l223d730fpdaa4162eac7d6717@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
	<2c6699da1001051034l223d730fpdaa4162eac7d6717@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0501394A-693F-4CE2-90C0-DE6B9B75625E@me.com>

Presently in 8.0. Someone on the fBSD questions list had an idea that I'll try tonight when I get home.



On Jan 5, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Brian Wall wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> 
>> When I run /etc/rc.d/netif restart I get  the normal processing data about
>> my NICs and then this:
>> re0: reset never completed!
>> re0: PHY write failed
>> re0: PHY write failed
>> re0: PHY write failed
>> re0: PHY write failed
>> re0: PHY write failed
> 
> A quick Google search (sorry, not a FreeeBSD guy) brought me to
> several articles addressing the issue in 7.1, guessing those are the
> same that you found.  Have you tried any of the FreeBSD releases
> mentioned in which this is supposedly fixed?
> 
> Brian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Jan  5 15:22:44 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:22:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] NIC failures
In-Reply-To: <5EE74014-2FC7-4580-ABFE-5E568BE90536@me.com>
References: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
	<5EE74014-2FC7-4580-ABFE-5E568BE90536@me.com>
Message-ID: <4B43ADA4.3060506@soul-dev.com>

On 1/4/2010 6:02 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> I should add this is a brand new NIC as of October, I believe.
>
> On Jan 4, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> I have a RealTek 816/x/ NIC in my FreeBSD 8.0 box, this is the same
>> machine I was having issues with last month with ACPI. I've swapped
>> out the hard drive and did a full system install last night and at 2AM
>> the NIC gave out.
>>
>> When I run */etc/rc.d/netif restart* I get the normal processing data
>> about my NICs and then this:
>> *re0: reset never completed!*
>> re0: PHY write failed
>> *re0: PHY write failed*
>> re0: PHY write failed
>> *re0: PHY write failed*
>> re0: PHY write failed
>> *
>> *
Just curious, but instead of restarting all network interfaces what 
happens when you down / up the link?

What are your kernel messages telling you? (/var/log/messages)

>> And it proceeds to bring lo0 and re0 back up, but re0 has it's listed
>> static IP but is not discoverable on the network.
>>
>> A reboot can temporarily fix this but I want to avoid rebooting every
>> 4-6 hours automatically (for obvious reasons).
So the NIC is working for you now - has the above error ever happened 
before, or was this an out of the blue occurrence, that is now repeating?
>>
>> I've found patches referencing 7.1 but not 8.x.
I'm guessing you probably wont find any (at least yet -- or if they (the 
old patches) have already been committed via a previous PR (haven't 
really looked for one).

>>
>> I can post more details if you need, just point me where you need me
>> to look for them.

>>
>> --
>> Ryan
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Jan  5 15:31:18 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:31:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] NIC failures
In-Reply-To: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
References: <7A05B78A-30BA-4162-9FBE-7ACD3882A415@me.com>
Message-ID: <4B43AFA6.6010302@soul-dev.com>

On 1/4/2010 5:48 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> I have a RealTek 816/x/ NIC in my FreeBSD 8.0 box, this is the same
> machine I was having issues with last month with ACPI. I've swapped out
> the hard drive and did a full system install last night and at 2AM the
> NIC gave out.
>
> When I run */etc/rc.d/netif restart* I get the normal processing data
> about my NICs and then this:
> *re0: reset never completed!*
> re0: PHY write failed
> *re0: PHY write failed*
> re0: PHY write failed
> *re0: PHY write failed*
> re0: PHY write failed
> *
> *
> And it proceeds to bring lo0 and re0 back up, but re0 has it's listed
> static IP but is not discoverable on the network.

Ohh ohh forgot to mention, you will most likely need to restart the 
/etc/rc.d/routing service as well if restarting netif when it comes back up.
>
> A reboot can temporarily fix this but I want to avoid rebooting every
> 4-6 hours automatically (for obvious reasons).
>
> I've found patches referencing 7.1 but not 8.x.
>
> I can post more details if you need, just point me where you need me to
> look for them.
>
> --
> Ryan
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 13:22:08 2010
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:22:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <d3ac1cd31001040935i199c54e8v866b8479e2db2bf3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<0016e64610e28faf5d047c4275e6@google.com>
	<d3ac1cd31001040935i199c54e8v866b8479e2db2bf3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac45c241001081122h1542346ame8d4e8f0a920dd31@mail.gmail.com>

Have you tried a Ubuntu install using the Server edition of Ubuntu or using
the alternative installer? With the server install media you can get picky
about what gets installed by default and only install the bare minimum.

There are options besides GNOME, KDE, and XFCE environments when you're
looking for a lighter weight GUI experience. There is no shortage of window
managers out there. GNUStep, OpenStep, AfterStep, Blackbox, fvwm, IceWM,
Sawfish, Window Maker. Or you can go with the command line. ;)

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From kris.browne at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 23:04:21 2010
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 23:04:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd:  Lightweight distros with big repositories
In-Reply-To: <cac45c241001081122h1542346ame8d4e8f0a920dd31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100101222456.a7bfcbf3.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<0016e64610e28faf5d047c4275e6@google.com>
	<d3ac1cd31001040935i199c54e8v866b8479e2db2bf3@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac45c241001081122h1542346ame8d4e8f0a920dd31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8255989d1001082104i367eb66cs69282908bb29aa90@mail.gmail.com>

Just as a note, GNUstep and OpenStep aren't window managers per se: GNUstep
is WindowMaker and a full Openstep compatible API stack, under which some
Cocoa programs will drop in and compile, and can run on top of Linux or one
of the BSDs, and OpenStep is the actual last incarnation of NeXT before it
became Rhapsody and later OS X.

Kris Browne
kris.browne at gmail.com
612-353-6969
612-408-4431
http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

"the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have
to write." - Steve Jobs
Sent from Minneapolis, MN, United States


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Andrew S. Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 13:22
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Lightweight distros with big repositories
To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>


Have you tried a Ubuntu install using the Server edition of Ubuntu or using
the alternative installer? With the server install media you can get picky
about what gets installed by default and only install the bare minimum.

There are options besides GNOME, KDE, and XFCE environments when you're
looking for a lighter weight GUI experience. There is no shortage of window
managers out there. GNUStep, OpenStep, AfterStep, Blackbox, fvwm, IceWM,
Sawfish, Window Maker. Or you can go with the command line. ;)

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From rclarksean at arvig.net  Sat Jan  9 13:19:05 2010
From: rclarksean at arvig.net (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:19:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] SATA External Storage
Message-ID: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>

I am looking for suggestions on a "cheap" storage system.  I would like it
to be 

 

+ RAID 5 or 6 capable

+ easily used as backup for Windows / Linux

+ form factor does not matter (i.e. 2U vs. Tower does not matter)

+ want to use "cheap" SATA drives

+ sits on network or attached to dedicated server

+ capacity of 1+ TB minimum  (nearly 500-750 GB of useful information for
backup at present)

 

Yes . I know I want everything and do not want to pay anything.  This is for
a home office type environment, not a production or high availability server
environment.  Everything runs over Gigabit network.  I have too much
information to back up via burning a DVD, etc.

 

I have looked at Dell and HP storage solutions and they are a BIT pricey to
say the least - even used.  I have a Dell SC1425 with ESXi on it that I can
easily attach it to as needed.

 

Thoughts or suggestions appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

 

Randy

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From jjensen at apache.org  Sat Jan  9 14:35:15 2010
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 14:35:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] SATA External Storage
In-Reply-To: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>
References: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>
Message-ID: <005b01ca916b$441d9cc0$cc58d640$@org>

Last fall for my "new" home server (mainly files and MythTV), I took an
existing tower with 1 drive and added a SATA controller & 4 WD Black 1TBs (&
did a fresh install).  I configured software RAID 5 for a 3TB RAID.  This
was the cheapest approach I found - main cost of course was drives, and is
your choice for needed size/quality/features.

 

I looked at external cases for the drives but found nothing reasonably
priced.  If you find something, please let me know!  Thankfully my case
could fit them.

 

I infer your case can't fit the drive(s)?

 

I also looked at devices, such as ReadyNAS and Buffalo, but found for the
price, the server approach offered me a lot more value and flexibility -
just a lot more of my time to initially setup.  But you may just want a
ReadyNAS?  My buddy bought one of the HP Windows Server NAS units.  He said
it was easy to setup and use, and works great.  But he paid more than I did
for less storage and flexibility, but I already had the server....  I used
an old PC for the main server and an older PC for the backup server.

 

My configuration is a bit reversed of yours - my backup server (currently
toasted) has "regular drives" (vs RAID you are seeking) and I put the RAID
in the main server (RAID for reliability, backups for recovery of any
"accidents").

 

Also, in case you are wondering about backup software, someone on this list
recommended BackupPC to me; it is a great backup product with tiered backups
I wanted (e.g. full backup, incremental backup, and keeping N of each).

 

 

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Randy Clarksean
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 1:19 PM
To: 'tclug-list'
Subject: [tclug-list] SATA External Storage

 

I am looking for suggestions on a "cheap" storage system.  I would like it
to be 

 

+ RAID 5 or 6 capable

+ easily used as backup for Windows / Linux

+ form factor does not matter (i.e. 2U vs. Tower does not matter)

+ want to use "cheap" SATA drives

+ sits on network or attached to dedicated server

+ capacity of 1+ TB minimum  (nearly 500-750 GB of useful information for
backup at present)

 

Yes . I know I want everything and do not want to pay anything.  This is for
a home office type environment, not a production or high availability server
environment.  Everything runs over Gigabit network.  I have too much
information to back up via burning a DVD, etc.

 

I have looked at Dell and HP storage solutions and they are a BIT pricey to
say the least - even used.  I have a Dell SC1425 with ESXi on it that I can
easily attach it to as needed.

 

Thoughts or suggestions appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

 

Randy

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From kris.browne at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 17:38:25 2010
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 17:38:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Fw:  SATA External Storage
In-Reply-To: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>
Message-ID: <4b49133d.5644f10a.1c3c.2da8@mx.google.com>

This sounds like a tailor made fit for a Drobo S... SATA, 5 bays for drives.

http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo-s.php

Not free, but possibly best solution.



Kris Browne
kris dot browne at gmail dot com

-- Sent from my Palm Pr?
From: Randy Clarksean &lt;rclarksean at arvig.net>
Date: Jan 9, 2010 13:21
Subject: [tclug-list] SATA External Storage
To: tclug-list &lt;tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
















I am looking for suggestions on a &#8220;cheap&#8221; storage
system. &nbsp;I would like it to be 

&nbsp;

+ RAID 5 or 6 capable

+ easily used as backup for Windows / Linux

+ form factor does not matter (i.e. 2U vs. Tower does not
matter)

+ want to use &#8220;cheap&#8221; SATA drives

+ sits on network or attached to dedicated server

+ capacity of 1+ TB minimum&nbsp; (nearly 500-750 GB of
useful information for backup at present)

&nbsp;

Yes &#8230; I know I want everything and do not want to pay
anything. &nbsp;This is for a home office type environment, not a production or
high availability server environment. &nbsp;Everything runs over Gigabit
network.&nbsp; I have too much information to back up via burning a DVD, etc.

&nbsp;

I have looked at Dell and HP storage solutions and they are
a BIT pricey to say the least &#8211; even used.&nbsp; I have a Dell SC1425
with ESXi on it that I can easily attach it to as needed.

&nbsp;

Thoughts or suggestions appreciated.&nbsp; Thanks in
advance.

&nbsp;

Randy







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From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 21:44:06 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 21:44:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] SATA External Storage
In-Reply-To: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>
References: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1001091944k44e9969cw88ffc1fbbd310240@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Randy Clarksean <rclarksean at arvig.net>wrote:

>  I am looking for suggestions on a ?cheap? storage system.  I would like
> it to be
>
> Yes ? I know I want everything and do not want to pay anything.  This is
> for a home office type environment, not a production or high availability
> server environment.
>

Not really.  This is pretty much a solved problem in today's world.  Linux
can do RAID in software, so for the price of a cheap tower with enough space
to hold the number of drives you plan on sticking in an array, you're good
to go.   You can get a hardware controller too for a little extra speed and
perhaps less risk of corruption when things go bad (like a power
failure).... (you were going to get a cheap UPS to get you through power
hiccups, right?)

If you want a large bucket of bits with some protection from crashes, I'd go
RAID 5.  Whether you use enterprise class disks or not, buy an extra one and
just set it in the case or a safe place to serve as a hot spare.  Chances
are a drive will die, and you can replace the dead drive and rebuild the
array while RMA'ing the dead drive.

For a simpler, black-box solution, drrobo - which was linked by another on
the list - looks like pure win.

I hear what you're saying about not backing up to CDs/DVDs.  I gave up on
that a long time ago.  Actually, I've grown weary of the process of dragging
digital baggage of the past from system to system, generation to
generation.  It's time consuming and I've only got one life to live.
Cataloging mp3's, cds, dvds, software, files, mail....  I think there's
something to be said for the fact our brains are lossy storage mediums - it
sure saves a lot of time.  (climbs off soapbox).

-Rob
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From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 22:47:59 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:47:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] SATA External Storage
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc1001091944k44e9969cw88ffc1fbbd310240@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>
	<cac10ddc1001091944k44e9969cw88ffc1fbbd310240@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1001092047nb0dea2oa329d7c5ac17726f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:44 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you want a large bucket of bits with some protection from crashes, I'd go
> RAID 5.? Whether you use enterprise class disks or not, buy an extra one and
> just set it in the case or a safe place to serve as a hot spare.? Chances
> are a drive will die, and you can replace the dead drive and rebuild the
> array while RMA'ing the dead drive.

If you don't intend to buy "RAID edition" drives, go RAID6.  The most
stressful time in a RAID drive's life is usually a rebuild.  That's
when you're likely to find that OTHER drive problem that didn't cause
the array to fail initially.  It can often be recovered, but often /=
always.  RAID6 means more "wasted" capacity, but you won't think of it
as wasted if you ever have a second drive fail during a rebuild.
No, I don't work for a hard drive company who wants you to buy more.
I do work for a company that sells storage solutions, and I speak from
(painful) experience.  *sigh*
- Justin


From tlunde at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 11:32:52 2010
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 11:32:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] SATA External Storage
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a1001092047nb0dea2oa329d7c5ac17726f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A5043447640041C19AA7FD6314058D14@dualasus>
	<cac10ddc1001091944k44e9969cw88ffc1fbbd310240@mail.gmail.com>
	<27e6356a1001092047nb0dea2oa329d7c5ac17726f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A15DD49-90FA-46CB-A4FE-1FD1805C2625@gmail.com>


On Jan 9, 2010, at 10:47 PM, Justin Kremer wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:44 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
> The most
> stressful time in a RAID drive's life is usually a rebuild.  That's
> when you're likely to find that OTHER drive problem that didn't cause
> the array to fail initially. 


+1 (and then some) if you're going to go RAID.

That said, I ended up giving up on RAID.  I use 1.5T volumes in the backup server and each is larger or equal to the backup target.  KISS.  

Thomas




From ryanjcole at me.com  Sun Jan 10 20:20:16 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:20:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Issues with imap-uw
Message-ID: <796481D3-816A-405A-851F-3C4732C5D06E@me.com>

I'm having authentication issues with imap-uw. I've tried using Thunderbird with the same problem.

In /var/log/maillog I'm getting the following:

Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16050]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16051]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16052]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16053]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]

This is my second FreeBSD 8 server unit this week -- long story -- and "out of the box" the last imap-uw installation worked without a hitch. 

Any ideas? I've installed with plaintext and ssl support.

TIA,
Ryan


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sun Jan 10 20:45:21 2010
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (jus at krytosvirus.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 02:45:21 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Issues with imap-uw
Message-ID: <1126358722-1263178000-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1917537273-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Is dovecot an option in fbsd package or ports? I think it is a much better pop/imap server. I have not had much experience with uw and I hope to keep it that way so I don't have much in the way of uw specific assistance other than maybe point out you did not indicate server version, any non default server config settings, encryption used, etc. Also I would check for verbose logging on the server and also try another client, even telnet thru an imap login assuming plaintext is available

------Original Message------
From: Ryan Coleman
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] Issues with imap-uw
Sent: Jan 10, 2010 8:20 PM

I'm having authentication issues with imap-uw. I've tried using Thunderbird with the same problem.

In /var/log/maillog I'm getting the following:

Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16050]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16051]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16052]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16053]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]

This is my second FreeBSD 8 server unit this week -- long story -- and "out of the box" the last imap-uw installation worked without a hitch. 

Any ideas? I've installed with plaintext and ssl support.

TIA,
Ryan

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From ryanjcole at me.com  Sun Jan 10 20:47:56 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:47:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Issues with imap-uw
In-Reply-To: <1126358722-1263178000-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1917537273-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1126358722-1263178000-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1917537273-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <284ECC97-D56C-4E82-8B1A-E1B8032AEF54@me.com>

Yes, you are the second person to recommend that to me in the last 15 minutes. I am going to look into it tomorrow evening (it's too late to set up a new installation tonight - I won't get any sleep).


On Jan 10, 2010, at 8:45 PM, jus at krytosvirus.com wrote:

> Is dovecot an option in fbsd package or ports? I think it is a much better pop/imap server. I have not had much experience with uw and I hope to keep it that way so I don't have much in the way of uw specific assistance other than maybe point out you did not indicate server version, any non default server config settings, encryption used, etc. Also I would check for verbose logging on the server and also try another client, even telnet thru an imap login assuming plaintext is available
> 
> ------Original Message------
> From: Ryan Coleman
> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] Issues with imap-uw
> Sent: Jan 10, 2010 8:20 PM
> 
> I'm having authentication issues with imap-uw. I've tried using Thunderbird with the same problem.
> 
> In /var/log/maillog I'm getting the following:
> 
> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16050]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16051]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16052]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16053]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
> 
> This is my second FreeBSD 8 server unit this week -- long story -- and "out of the box" the last imap-uw installation worked without a hitch. 
> 
> Any ideas? I've installed with plaintext and ssl support.
> 
> TIA,
> Ryan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile



From ryanjcole at me.com  Sun Jan 10 22:48:22 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:48:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Issues with imap-uw [Solved]
In-Reply-To: <284ECC97-D56C-4E82-8B1A-E1B8032AEF54@me.com>
References: <1126358722-1263178000-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1917537273-@bda594.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<284ECC97-D56C-4E82-8B1A-E1B8032AEF54@me.com>
Message-ID: <920CE7CB-0FB1-446E-BBD3-A1247F0FBE34@me.com>

I have dovecot installed and running and working in both mail.app and Thunderbird. Thanks, Jus, for the 2nd recommendation to use it. It took some "doh!" moments but I got it all running.

--
Ryan
	
On Jan 10, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Yes, you are the second person to recommend that to me in the last 15 minutes. I am going to look into it tomorrow evening (it's too late to set up a new installation tonight - I won't get any sleep).
> 
> 
> On Jan 10, 2010, at 8:45 PM, jus at krytosvirus.com wrote:
> 
>> Is dovecot an option in fbsd package or ports? I think it is a much better pop/imap server. I have not had much experience with uw and I hope to keep it that way so I don't have much in the way of uw specific assistance other than maybe point out you did not indicate server version, any non default server config settings, encryption used, etc. Also I would check for verbose logging on the server and also try another client, even telnet thru an imap login assuming plaintext is available
>> 
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Ryan Coleman
>> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Subject: [tclug-list] Issues with imap-uw
>> Sent: Jan 10, 2010 8:20 PM
>> 
>> I'm having authentication issues with imap-uw. I've tried using Thunderbird with the same problem.
>> 
>> In /var/log/maillog I'm getting the following:
>> 
>> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16050]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
>> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16051]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
>> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16052]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
>> Jan 10 20:18:26 server imapd[16053]: Unexpected client disconnect, while reading line user=??? host=[10.0.1.1]
>> 
>> This is my second FreeBSD 8 server unit this week -- long story -- and "out of the box" the last imap-uw installation worked without a hitch. 
>> 
>> Any ideas? I've installed with plaintext and ssl support.
>> 
>> TIA,
>> Ryan
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From admin at lctn.org  Mon Jan 11 08:56:30 2010
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:56:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] inventory management solution
Message-ID: <4B4B3C1E.809@lctn.org>

I am looking for a gpl inventory management system (web based) that can 
utilize bar coding, and a hand held scanner. A co-worker recommended 
gpli, but it seems hand held scanners are not supported, or at least do 
not behave as users would like (from some docs I found). What are people 
recommending for a solution. A perfect solution would include the 
ability to produce bar codes.


Raymond


From wilson at visi.com  Mon Jan 11 16:56:01 2010
From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:56:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Local Asterisk consultants
Message-ID: <CC963197-C5A8-48DA-AA96-31297074C6F5@visi.com>

Hey everyone,

My organization is going to start shopping for a new phone/voicemail system soon, and I want to make sure we give Asterisk a look. Can anyone recommend a local Asterisk consultant/reseller who could talk to us and potentially handle a very large installation project?

-Tim

-- 
Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist
Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy
mailto:wilson at visi.com  aim: tis270  blog: http://technosavvy.org



From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Tue Jan 12 07:33:30 2010
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 07:33:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Local Asterisk consultants
In-Reply-To: <CC963197-C5A8-48DA-AA96-31297074C6F5@visi.com>
References: <CC963197-C5A8-48DA-AA96-31297074C6F5@visi.com>
Message-ID: <CB9F4F77-3A27-4D53-8AB9-AA0597151613@secure-computing.net>

On Jan 11, 2010, at 16:56:01, Tim Wilson wrote:

> Hey everyone,
> 
> My organization is going to start shopping for a new phone/voicemail system soon, and I want to make sure we give Asterisk a look. Can anyone recommend a local Asterisk consultant/reseller who could talk to us and potentially handle a very large installation project?

I would recommend looking at FreeSWITCH, as well.  It was a fork and rewrite from asterisk.  I'm doing a similar deployment, which I'm handling myself.  If you're somewhat competent, there's really no good reason to spend the money on a consultant.

---
Eric Crist






From webmaster at mn-linux.org  Tue Jan 12 11:16:40 2010
From: webmaster at mn-linux.org (TCLUG Classifieds)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:16:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] New TCLUG Classified Ad
Message-ID: <201001121716.o0CHGeP10186@crusader.real-time.com>

New TCLUG Classified Ad

Category: Computer

Type of Ad: For Free

Subject: Netgear MR814v2

Netgear MR814v2 wireless router, with power adapter and install guide.  Works, 802.11b only.

Seller Email address: johntrammell at gmail dot com

http://www.mn-linux.org/cgi-bin/classifieds/index.cgi



From terry99 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 17:23:06 2010
From: terry99 at gmail.com (Terry Houle)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:23:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>

LinkedIn
------------
Terry Houle requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
------------------------------------------

Curtis,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Terry

Accept invitation from Terry Houle
http://www.linkedin.com/e/fXkAsY5F_aQt80-TSgCO_UPp9GHtuGTfOkjS/blk/I1724271560_2/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_cBYMdzkNdP8QczsNiiZ5k7hed5tMiyYMejoVcjkNejALrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/

View invitation from Terry Houle
http://www.linkedin.com/e/fXkAsY5F_aQt80-TSgCO_UPp9GHtuGTfOkjS/blk/I1724271560_2/39vc3oRcjsOd38TckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ 

------------------------------------------
DID YOU KNOW you can use your LinkedIn profile as your website? Select a vanity URL and then promote this address on your business cards, email signatures, website, etc
http://www.linkedin.com/e/ewp/inv-21/





 
------
(c) 2010, LinkedIn Corporation
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From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed Jan 13 04:29:53 2010
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, Linux User)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:29:53 +0800
Subject: [tclug-list] What external DVD burner do you use?
Message-ID: <20100113182953.8debc002.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I'm thinking of replacing my HP cd-writer+ 8290 external CD burner.  While I never had a problem with it under Windows, it's flaky with Linux.

What external DVD burner do you use?  Is there a list of external DVD burners that are Linux compatible?

Should I consider buying an internal DVD burner instead and adding an enclosure to make it an external USB burner?  Exactly what do I need to look for in the burner and the enclosure?

-- 
Jason Hsu, Linux User <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Wed Jan 13 20:48:14 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:48:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
Message-ID: <4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net>

On 1/13/2010 5:23 PM, Terry Houle wrote:
>
>
>
>   LinkedIn
>
> Terry Houle requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
>
> Curtis,
>
> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>
> - Terry
>

I hate LinkedIn

-- 
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors.
You have our gratitude.
Those who oppose us will be sent to Detroit.


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Thu Jan 14 09:36:41 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:36:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>

On 1/13/2010 8:48 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> On 1/13/2010 5:23 PM, Terry Houle wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>    LinkedIn
>>
>> Terry Houle requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
>>
>> Curtis,
>>
>> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>>
>> - Terry
>>
>
> I hate LinkedIn
>

You're not alone in the hate


From joel_cd at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 14 10:41:43 2010
From: joel_cd at yahoo.com (Joel Dick)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:41:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job networking.

On 1/13/2010 8:48 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> On 1/13/2010 5:23 PM, Terry Houle wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>? ? LinkedIn
>>
>> Terry Houle requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
>>
>> Curtis,
>>
>> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>>
>> - Terry
>>
>
> I hate LinkedIn
>

You're not alone in the hate

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 11:44:38 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:44:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod> 
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com> 
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1001140944t387577cfx7bd6c8f2938eeb96@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job networking.

It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
Linkedin is supposed to provide.
And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
know them well enough to vouch for them.
- Justin


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Thu Jan 14 11:49:56 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:49:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net>
	<4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B4F5944.7000707@soul-dev.com>

On 1/14/2010 10:41 AM, Joel Dick wrote:
> Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job networking.
>
> On 1/13/2010 8:48 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
>> On 1/13/2010 5:23 PM, Terry Houle wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      LinkedIn
>>>
>>> Terry Houle requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
>>>
>>> Curtis,
>>>
>>> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>>>
>>> - Terry
>>>
>>
>> I hate LinkedIn
>>
>
> You're not alone in the hate
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
I have a rather strong aversion towards all social networking sites. I 
feel that it is a security risk I would rather not ever have to deal with.

Although, it is fun to create LinkedIn accounts with fake 
information/background, you never know who you might bait.


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From andyschmid at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 11:56:17 2010
From: andyschmid at gmail.com (Andy Schmid)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:56:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a1001140944t387577cfx7bd6c8f2938eeb96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<27e6356a1001140944t387577cfx7bd6c8f2938eeb96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7b7c42a31001140956t5eadfbb1u24d98f278f655e99@mail.gmail.com>

It may suck, but if it can help me find a job when I'm out of work ... it is
at minimum in the 'useful' category.

-Andy

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few
> people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job
> networking.
>
> It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
> trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
> popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
> for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
> regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
> Linkedin is supposed to provide.
> And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
> can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
> e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
> I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
> contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
> necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
> know them well enough to vouch for them.
> - Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Thu Jan 14 11:54:52 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:54:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a1001140944t387577cfx7bd6c8f2938eeb96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<27e6356a1001140944t387577cfx7bd6c8f2938eeb96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B4F5A6C.7060409@netscape.net>

On 1/14/2010 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick<joel_cd at yahoo.com>  wrote:
>> Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job networking.
>
> It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
> trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
> popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
> for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
> regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
> Linkedin is supposed to provide.
> And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
> can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
> e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
> I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
> contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
> necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
> know them well enough to vouch for them.
> - Justin
>

I totally agree with this.  It ends up being nothing but crap/spam mail 
in your inbox.  I actually block the domain in our companies spam filter.

Bob

-- 
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors.
You have our gratitude.
Those who oppose us will be sent to Detroit.


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 12:16:08 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:16:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <4B4F5944.7000707@soul-dev.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B4F5944.7000707@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141208420.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:

> I have a rather strong aversion towards all social networking sites. I 
> feel that it is a security risk I would rather not ever have to deal 
> with.


Dear Mr. Mailinglists:

By using your true name you have made it possible for some crazed killer 
to see you on TCLUG and hunt you down and kill you.  You can never be too 
cautious in this world, which is why I have a massive stockpile of 
extremely dangerous loaded weapons adorning the walls of my home.  I 
suggest that you get a fake name and a lot of guns if you want to be 
secure.

Mike


From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 12:20:02 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:20:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <7b7c42a31001140956t5eadfbb1u24d98f278f655e99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<27e6356a1001140944t387577cfx7bd6c8f2938eeb96@mail.gmail.com>
	<7b7c42a31001140956t5eadfbb1u24d98f278f655e99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1001141020l590a9bd0i284787a3ca08587c@mail.gmail.com>

While the criticisms lobbied at LinkedIn have some merit, I don't think they
qualify as condemnations leading to a conclusion of zero-value-proposition.
I use it, first and foremost, to stay linked to past colleagues and
coworkers, and to that end it has been very effective.

Other people have different agendas for using (abusing?) the system, that's
certainly true.  So your mileage may vary - for me it's been just fine.

-Rob

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Andy Schmid <andyschmid at gmail.com> wrote:

> It may suck, but if it can help me find a job when I'm out of work ... it
> is at minimum in the 'useful' category.
>
> -Andy
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few
>> people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job
>> networking.
>>
>> It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
>> trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
>> popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
>> for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
>> regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
>> Linkedin is supposed to provide.
>> And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
>> can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
>> e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
>> I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
>> contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
>> necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
>> know them well enough to vouch for them.
>> - Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Jan 14 12:31:03 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:31:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc1001141020l590a9bd0i284787a3ca08587c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<27e6356a1001140944t387577cfx7bd6c8f2938eeb96@mail.gmail.com>
	<7b7c42a31001140956t5eadfbb1u24d98f278f655e99@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc1001141020l590a9bd0i284787a3ca08587c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F0721A6-6731-4B17-9CF7-950C3657AF2F@me.com>

I second Rob's statement.

I have Facebook for me. I keep LinkedIn for people here, out there and to maintain the connection to family members that are in the same or similar industries as mine. And there's no one on there that I don't know or haven't met with the minor exception of the occasional TCPHP member that I've been "connected" to for a number of years through there.

--
Ryan


On Jan 14, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Robert Nesius wrote:

> While the criticisms lobbied at LinkedIn have some merit, I don't think they qualify as condemnations leading to a conclusion of zero-value-proposition.  I use it, first and foremost, to stay linked to past colleagues and coworkers, and to that end it has been very effective.  
> 
> Other people have different agendas for using (abusing?) the system, that's certainly true.  So your mileage may vary - for me it's been just fine. 
> 
> -Rob



From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Thu Jan 14 12:54:18 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:54:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141208420.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net>
	<4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4B4F5944.7000707@soul-dev.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141208420.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4B4F685A.407@soul-dev.com>

On 1/14/2010 12:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>
>> I have a rather strong aversion towards all social networking sites. I
>> feel that it is a security risk I would rather not ever have to deal
>> with.
>
>
> Dear Mr. Mailinglists:
>
> By using your true name you have made it possible for some crazed killer
> to see you on TCLUG and hunt you down and kill you.  You can never be too
> cautious in this world, which is why I have a massive stockpile of
> extremely dangerous loaded weapons adorning the walls of my home.  I
> suggest that you get a fake name and a lot of guns if you want to be
> secure.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

That only would secure me physically whilst I was home. Whats stopping 
someone from killing me if I left the house? Walking the dog? At work? 
There are trade offs and insecurity in life, I do accept that.

The internet can be a scary place, in fact it is. I like to control what 
information about me is on the internet/someone else's system, where it 
could be compromised. Information stored on such social networking sites 
can be of a personal nature (as far as linkedin resumes, contacts, 
etc..) and I sure don't want Jonnie China to somehow through a 
compromised account, or XSS, or password brute, or, or, or....

I'm sure it would be rather funny to have your potential employer come 
across your compimised linkedin account and see "LOLDONGS" posted all 
over it.

Granted the likeliness is extremely small, but there is a chance. Same 
goes for Facebook (privacy settings may change at any given time >> EULA).

I still love me some good internet/Linux, I just choose to avoid social 
networking, security is a bit of a passion of mine.

BTW, anyone sec folks going to DEFCON 18 this year?


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 14 13:04:49 2010
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:04:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <7b7c42a31001140956t5eadfbb1u24d98f278f655e99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFIDAAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

Better to use a real job-seeking function like Indeed.com that won't spam everybody and invite makware attacks on your system.  My
ISP frequently stops bad trojans and malware from the social cesspools (Linkedin, Facebook, Twitter) and notifies me of their
attempt.  This dominant aspect of Linkedin (et al) is NOT "useful" to me!

Indeed is like Google for jobs.  Nothing else is as good or better.  Finding a job listing it doesn't have is difficult.  Their
search feature is better than others, and one syntax searches all listing, allowing interesting ones to be saved for follow-up.

Linkedin is not first and foremost a job seeking function.  When a Linkedin job is listed on Indeed, one can go to the company site
and not use Linkedin at all.

Chuck
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Andy Schmid
  Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:56 AM
  To: Justin Kremer
  Cc: tclug-list
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn


  It may suck, but if it can help me find a job when I'm out of work ... it is at minimum in the 'useful' category.

  -Andy


  On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
    > Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's
good for job networking.


    It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
    trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
    popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
    for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
    regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
    Linkedin is supposed to provide.
    And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
    can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
    e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
    I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
    contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
    necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
    know them well enough to vouch for them.
    - Justin


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From andyschmid at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 13:27:31 2010
From: andyschmid at gmail.com (Andy Schmid)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:27:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFIDAAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <7b7c42a31001140956t5eadfbb1u24d98f278f655e99@mail.gmail.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFIDAAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7b7c42a31001141127g6f11a1efo51fc05775d03d4a0@mail.gmail.com>

I've never heard of Indeed, thanks for the tip.  I have not had the same
poor experience with linkedin.  I have been contacted by recruiters from
some pretty big companies who found me via linkedin through my listed
experience and contacts.  It may not work for everyone, but it has worked
for me.

I hardly ever get spam from linkedin (aside from job inquiries, which is the
whole point of it IMO), and linkedin will not spam your friends unless you
tell it to.  I also have not run into any trojans or viruses from the site.

I don't see much difference from putting up your resume on a website like
monster.com, and putting it up on linkedin.  To say LinkedIn is not a job
seeking utility is a bit off the radar.

-Andy

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:

>  Better to use a real job-seeking function like Indeed.com that won't spam
> everybody and invite makware attacks on your system.  My ISP frequently
> stops bad trojans and malware from the social cesspools (Linkedin, Facebook,
> Twitter) and notifies me of their attempt.  This dominant aspect of Linkedin
> (et al) is NOT "useful" to me!
>
> Indeed is like Google for jobs.  Nothing else is as good or better.
> Finding a job listing it doesn't have is difficult.  Their search feature is
> better than others, and one syntax searches all listing, allowing
> interesting ones to be saved for follow-up.
>
> Linkedin is not first and foremost a job seeking function.  When a Linkedin
> job is listed on Indeed, one can go to the company site and not use Linkedin
> at all.
>
> Chuck
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:
> tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]*On Behalf Of *Andy Schmid
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:56 AM
> *To:* Justin Kremer
> *Cc:* tclug-list
> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
>
> It may suck, but if it can help me find a job when I'm out of work ... it
> is at minimum in the 'useful' category.
>
> -Andy
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few
>> people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job
>> networking.
>>
>> It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
>> trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
>> popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
>> for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
>> regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
>> Linkedin is supposed to provide.
>> And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
>> can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
>> e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
>> I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
>> contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
>> necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
>> know them well enough to vouch for them.
>> - Justin
>>
>>
>>
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 13:41:54 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:41:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <4B4F685A.407@soul-dev.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B4F5944.7000707@soul-dev.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141208420.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4B4F685A.407@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141332160.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:

> On 1/14/2010 12:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>>
>>> I have a rather strong aversion towards all social networking sites. I 
>>> feel that it is a security risk I would rather not ever have to deal 
>>> with.
>>
>>
>> Dear Mr. Mailinglists:
>>
>> By using your true name you have made it possible for some crazed 
>> killer to see you on TCLUG and hunt you down and kill you.  You can 
>> never be too cautious in this world, which is why I have a massive 
>> stockpile of extremely dangerous loaded weapons adorning the walls of 
>> my home.  I suggest that you get a fake name and a lot of guns if you 
>> want to be secure.
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> That only would secure me physically whilst I was home. Whats stopping 
> someone from killing me if I left the house? Walking the dog? At work? 
> There are trade offs and insecurity in life, I do accept that.

We won't all truly be safe until each of us owns a pocket-sized nuclear 
bomb that we can detonate if threatened.  Think of the huge deterrent 
effect!


> The internet can be a scary place, in fact it is.

That's interesting.  I thought it was a funny place.


> I like to control what information about me is on the internet/someone 
> else's system, where it could be compromised. Information stored on such 
> social networking sites can be of a personal nature (as far as linkedin 
> resumes, contacts, etc..) and I sure don't want Jonnie China to somehow 
> through a compromised account, or XSS, or password brute, or, or, or....

Frickin' Chinese bastards!  OK, finally we agree.


> I'm sure it would be rather funny to have your potential employer come 
> across your compimised linkedin account and see "LOLDONGS" posted all 
> over it.

I haven't heard of LOLDONGS -- are they scary or funny, or both?


> Granted the likeliness is extremely small, but there is a chance.

Exactly.  That's why I never cross a street.

Mike


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Thu Jan 14 14:29:40 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:29:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141332160.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net>
	<4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4B4F5944.7000707@soul-dev.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141208420.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>	<4B4F685A.407@soul-dev.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141332160.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4B4F7EB4.80907@soul-dev.com>

On 1/14/2010 1:41 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>
>> On 1/14/2010 12:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a rather strong aversion towards all social networking sites. I
>>>> feel that it is a security risk I would rather not ever have to deal
>>>> with.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Mr. Mailinglists:
>>>
>>> By using your true name you have made it possible for some crazed
>>> killer to see you on TCLUG and hunt you down and kill you.  You can
>>> never be too cautious in this world, which is why I have a massive
>>> stockpile of extremely dangerous loaded weapons adorning the walls of
>>> my home.  I suggest that you get a fake name and a lot of guns if you
>>> want to be secure.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>> That only would secure me physically whilst I was home. Whats stopping
>> someone from killing me if I left the house? Walking the dog? At work?
>> There are trade offs and insecurity in life, I do accept that.
>
> We won't all truly be safe until each of us owns a pocket-sized nuclear
> bomb that we can detonate if threatened.  Think of the huge deterrent
> effect!
Deterrent to what? This looks like a great population control method. </ s>
>
>
>> The internet can be a scary place, in fact it is.
>
> That's interesting.  I thought it was a funny place.
The internet is srs fkin business!!!one!one!!11!

It is a damn funny place if your doing it right, unfortunately most 
don't, but then again, they make it funny. From your comments, it looks 
like you're doing it right.
>
>
> Frickin' Chinese bastards!  OK, finally we agree.
But Jonnie China is Ukrainian ;-)
>
>
> I haven't heard of LOLDONGS -- are they scary or funny, or both?
Guess it depends on the person, to me I think Vietnamese banknotes 
qualifies as both.
>
>
>> Granted the likeliness is extremely small, but there is a chance.
>
> Exactly.  That's why I never cross a street.
Apples to oranges.
>
> Mike


From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 14:56:06 2010
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:56:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9430.1263497348.2412.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.9430.1263497348.2412.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <25f02f41001141256u4978c0ekd0ba22716793eb56@mail.gmail.com>

How can we better market you. Vote with your browser by avoiding sites you
don't like.
Simple enough.
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:29 PM, <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:

> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
>        tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Mike Miller)
>   2. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Robert Nesius)
>   3. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Ryan Coleman)
>   4. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Mr. MailingLists)
>   5. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Chuck Cole)
>   6. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Andy Schmid)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:16:08 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com <mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141208420.4343 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>
> > I have a rather strong aversion towards all social networking sites. I
> > feel that it is a security risk I would rather not ever have to deal
> > with.
>
>
> Dear Mr. Mailinglists:
>
> By using your true name you have made it possible for some crazed killer
> to see you on TCLUG and hunt you down and kill you.  You can never be too
> cautious in this world, which is why I have a massive stockpile of
> extremely dangerous loaded weapons adorning the walls of my home.  I
> suggest that you get a fake name and a lot of guns if you want to be
> secure.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:20:02 -0600
> From: Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> To: Andy Schmid <andyschmid at gmail.com>
> Cc: tclug-list <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <cac10ddc1001141020l590a9bd0i284787a3ca08587c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> While the criticisms lobbied at LinkedIn have some merit, I don't think
> they
> qualify as condemnations leading to a conclusion of zero-value-proposition.
> I use it, first and foremost, to stay linked to past colleagues and
> coworkers, and to that end it has been very effective.
>
> Other people have different agendas for using (abusing?) the system, that's
> certainly true.  So your mileage may vary - for me it's been just fine.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Andy Schmid <andyschmid at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It may suck, but if it can help me find a job when I'm out of work ... it
> > is at minimum in the 'useful' category.
> >
> > -Andy
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few
> >> people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job
> >> networking.
> >>
> >> It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
> >> trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
> >> popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
> >> for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
> >> regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
> >> Linkedin is supposed to provide.
> >> And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
> >> can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
> >> e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
> >> I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
> >> contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
> >> necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
> >> know them well enough to vouch for them.
> >> - Justin
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:31:03 -0600
> From: Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <1F0721A6-6731-4B17-9CF7-950C3657AF2F at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I second Rob's statement.
>
> I have Facebook for me. I keep LinkedIn for people here, out there and to
> maintain the connection to family members that are in the same or similar
> industries as mine. And there's no one on there that I don't know or haven't
> met with the minor exception of the occasional TCPHP member that I've been
> "connected" to for a number of years through there.
>
> --
> Ryan
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
> > While the criticisms lobbied at LinkedIn have some merit, I don't think
> they qualify as condemnations leading to a conclusion of
> zero-value-proposition.  I use it, first and foremost, to stay linked to
> past colleagues and coworkers, and to that end it has been very effective.
> >
> > Other people have different agendas for using (abusing?) the system,
> that's certainly true.  So your mileage may vary - for me it's been just
> fine.
> >
> > -Rob
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:54:18 -0600
> From: "Mr. MailingLists" <mailinglists at soul-dev.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <4B4F685A.407 at soul-dev.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 1/14/2010 12:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
> >
> >> I have a rather strong aversion towards all social networking sites. I
> >> feel that it is a security risk I would rather not ever have to deal
> >> with.
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Mailinglists:
> >
> > By using your true name you have made it possible for some crazed killer
> > to see you on TCLUG and hunt you down and kill you.  You can never be too
> > cautious in this world, which is why I have a massive stockpile of
> > extremely dangerous loaded weapons adorning the walls of my home.  I
> > suggest that you get a fake name and a lot of guns if you want to be
> > secure.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> That only would secure me physically whilst I was home. Whats stopping
> someone from killing me if I left the house? Walking the dog? At work?
> There are trade offs and insecurity in life, I do accept that.
>
> The internet can be a scary place, in fact it is. I like to control what
> information about me is on the internet/someone else's system, where it
> could be compromised. Information stored on such social networking sites
> can be of a personal nature (as far as linkedin resumes, contacts,
> etc..) and I sure don't want Jonnie China to somehow through a
> compromised account, or XSS, or password brute, or, or, or....
>
> I'm sure it would be rather funny to have your potential employer come
> across your compimised linkedin account and see "LOLDONGS" posted all
> over it.
>
> Granted the likeliness is extremely small, but there is a chance. Same
> goes for Facebook (privacy settings may change at any given time >> EULA).
>
> I still love me some good internet/Linux, I just choose to avoid social
> networking, security is a bit of a passion of mine.
>
> BTW, anyone sec folks going to DEFCON 18 this year?
>
>
> --
> ()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
> /\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:04:49 -0600
> From: "Chuck Cole" <cncole at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> To: "Andy Schmid" <andyschmid at gmail.com>,       "Justin Kremer"
>        <justin.kremer at gmail.com>
> Cc: tclug-list <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEFIDAAA.cncole at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Better to use a real job-seeking function like Indeed.com that won't spam
> everybody and invite makware attacks on your system.  My
> ISP frequently stops bad trojans and malware from the social cesspools
> (Linkedin, Facebook, Twitter) and notifies me of their
> attempt.  This dominant aspect of Linkedin (et al) is NOT "useful" to me!
>
> Indeed is like Google for jobs.  Nothing else is as good or better.
>  Finding a job listing it doesn't have is difficult.  Their
> search feature is better than others, and one syntax searches all listing,
> allowing interesting ones to be saved for follow-up.
>
> Linkedin is not first and foremost a job seeking function.  When a Linkedin
> job is listed on Indeed, one can go to the company site
> and not use Linkedin at all.
>
> Chuck
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:
> tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Andy Schmid
>  Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:56 AM
>  To: Justin Kremer
>  Cc: tclug-list
>  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
>
>
>  It may suck, but if it can help me find a job when I'm out of work ... it
> is at minimum in the 'useful' category.
>
>  -Andy
>
>
>  On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>    On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
>    > Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few
> people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's
> good for job networking.
>
>
>    It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
>    trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
>    popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
>    for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
>    regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
>    Linkedin is supposed to provide.
>    And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
>    can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
>    e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
>    I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
>    contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
>    necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
>    know them well enough to vouch for them.
>    - Justin
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:27:31 -0600
> From: Andy Schmid <andyschmid at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> To: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
> Cc: tclug-list <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <7b7c42a31001141127g6f11a1efo51fc05775d03d4a0 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I've never heard of Indeed, thanks for the tip.  I have not had the same
> poor experience with linkedin.  I have been contacted by recruiters from
> some pretty big companies who found me via linkedin through my listed
> experience and contacts.  It may not work for everyone, but it has worked
> for me.
>
> I hardly ever get spam from linkedin (aside from job inquiries, which is
> the
> whole point of it IMO), and linkedin will not spam your friends unless you
> tell it to.  I also have not run into any trojans or viruses from the site.
>
> I don't see much difference from putting up your resume on a website like
> monster.com, and putting it up on linkedin.  To say LinkedIn is not a job
> seeking utility is a bit off the radar.
>
> -Andy
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >  Better to use a real job-seeking function like Indeed.com that won't
> spam
> > everybody and invite makware attacks on your system.  My ISP frequently
> > stops bad trojans and malware from the social cesspools (Linkedin,
> Facebook,
> > Twitter) and notifies me of their attempt.  This dominant aspect of
> Linkedin
> > (et al) is NOT "useful" to me!
> >
> > Indeed is like Google for jobs.  Nothing else is as good or better.
> > Finding a job listing it doesn't have is difficult.  Their search feature
> is
> > better than others, and one syntax searches all listing, allowing
> > interesting ones to be saved for follow-up.
> >
> > Linkedin is not first and foremost a job seeking function.  When a
> Linkedin
> > job is listed on Indeed, one can go to the company site and not use
> Linkedin
> > at all.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:
> > tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]*On Behalf Of *Andy Schmid
> > *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:56 AM
> > *To:* Justin Kremer
> > *Cc:* tclug-list
> > *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> >
> > It may suck, but if it can help me find a job when I'm out of work ... it
> > is at minimum in the 'useful' category.
> >
> > -Andy
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Joel Dick <joel_cd at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > Dare I ask why people don't like Linkedin? Just wondering, as a few
> >> people have recommended that I sign up there, that it's good for job
> >> networking.
> >>
> >> It claims to give you a "network of trust" or some other word for
> >> trustworthy businesspeople you know, but it is mostly just a
> >> popularity contest like Facebook for business people who are too good
> >> for Facebook.  People add contacts that they've never met in person
> >> regularly, defeating any semblance of this network of trust that
> >> Linkedin is supposed to provide.
> >> And when you sign up, it asks you for your e-mail password so that it
> >> can try to spam everyone in your contacts, which would be how that
> >> e-mail got sent to this mailing list.
> >> I know for a fact that I have a whole lot of people in my e-mail
> >> contact list who I would not consider to be someone I trust, not
> >> necessarily because the person is not trustworthy, but because I don't
> >> know them well enough to vouch for them.
> >> - Justin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 13
> ******************************************
>
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 14 15:03:08 2010
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:03:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <7b7c42a31001141127g6f11a1efo51fc05775d03d4a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DIEPJAHDNINGELBLJLJCCEFEPPAA.cncole@earthlink.net>


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Andy Schmid [mailto:andyschmid at gmail.com]
  Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:28 PM
  To: Chuck Cole
  Cc: Justin Kremer; tclug-list
  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn


  I've never heard of Indeed, thanks for the tip.  I have not had the same poor experience with linkedin.  I have been contacted by
recruiters from some pretty big companies who found me via linkedin through my listed experience and contacts.  It may not work for
everyone, but it has worked for me.

You are right: doing something is gonna work better than doing nothing.   Using an actual job search site like indeed might do
better.  It has all Monster, Careerbuilder, and so on: one stop shopping.

I hardly ever get spam from linkedin (aside from job inquiries, which is the whole point of it IMO), and linkedin will not spam your
friends unless you tell it to.  I also have not run into any trojans or viruses from the site.

"Hardly ever" isn't as good as "never".  I haven't run into any either because my ISP filters them out. but notifies me that they
did.  I often go several whole days and sometimes a week without a trojan attempt warning about something from Linkedin or Facebook!

I don't see much difference from putting up your resume on a website like monster.com, and putting it up on linkedin.

Better to locate a job announcement and respond than to post.  Posting can lead to some problems with recruiters who broadcast in an
attempt to claim the bounty for placing you, and posting is often viewed as an indication nobody will hire you, so you are
considered a "bottom of the barrel" candidate.   I only post on Careerbuilder, but get a flood of junk responses when I update.  I
do not post on recruiter sites because that empowers them to broadcast and that "bounty claim" makes you ineligible for other
recruiters who may be the only ones used by some corporations.

 To say LinkedIn is not a job seeking utility is a bit off the radar.

Read what I said very clearly:  " Linkedin is not first and foremost a job seeking function. "

It is not primarily a job seeking function.  It is not where everybody goes.  It is not where everybody goes first.  It's neither
necessary nor sufficient, IMHO.





Chuck

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From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 16:37:30 2010
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:37:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] What external DVD burner do you use?
In-Reply-To: <20100113182953.8debc002.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20100113182953.8debc002.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <cac45c241001151437l7ac08fd2gb9257355861c9507@mail.gmail.com>

There isn't much to consider.

Pick the interface your computer supports: PATA, SATA, USB2, FireWire 400,
FireWire 800.
Pick a drive that supports DVD?RW
Pick your media: DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW.

If you're going external, just find an external drive. You'll pay a bit more
for an external drive that has USB2 and FireWire interfaces than you would
for one that is only USB2. There isn't any need to fuss with a separate
drive and enclosure, plenty of companies make external drives.

At this point in the game DVD burners are commodities like almost every
other part of your PC, and a DVD?RW is typically standard equipment in new
computers. You could buy yourself a create full of drives from your local PC
recycler.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 10:02:11 2010
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:02:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] What external DVD burner do you use?
In-Reply-To: <cac45c241001151437l7ac08fd2gb9257355861c9507@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100113182953.8debc002.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<cac45c241001151437l7ac08fd2gb9257355861c9507@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <254fef0f1001160802p175d10e3kc7a23ba9937f7296@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't tested it extensively yet (for instance, I haven't doing
DVDs, just CDs), but so far so good with
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827190020

 - Tony Yarusso


From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 13:11:23 2010
From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 13:11:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <4B4F685A.407@soul-dev.com>
References: <63584794.81115.1263424986100.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn06.prod>
	<4B4E85EE.7090506@netscape.net> <4B4F3A09.9060909@soul-dev.com>
	<970036.97453.qm@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B4F5944.7000707@soul-dev.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1001141208420.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4B4F685A.407@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <be48c3341001161111y2b712df9yf84c9c8b03643535@mail.gmail.com>

I try to make it every year, last year was still fun.

TCLUG meet-up?

<grin>

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Mr. MailingLists <
mailinglists at soul-dev.com> wrote:

>
> ...
> BTW, anyone sec folks going to DEFCON 18 this year?
>
>

-- 
http://ronspace.org/
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From auditodd at comcast.net  Sat Jan 16 22:12:00 2010
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 04:12:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] What external DVD burner do you use?
In-Reply-To: <254fef0f1001160802p175d10e3kc7a23ba9937f7296@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <521076373.12197771263701520665.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Looks like and costs about the same as the Samsung model I bought from NewEgg a few months ago.

Works fine for me.
Some idiot on NewEgg was complaining that he couldn't use it to boot a computer off of (the Samsung model).
He was wrong...

----------
Todd Young

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Yarusso" <tonyyarusso at gmail.com>
To: "tclug-list" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:02:11 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] What external DVD burner do you use?

I haven't tested it extensively yet (for instance, I haven't doing
DVDs, just CDs), but so far so good with
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827190020

 - Tony Yarusso

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Sat Jan 16 22:18:02 2010
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:18:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] What external DVD burner do you use?
In-Reply-To: <521076373.12197771263701520665.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <521076373.12197771263701520665.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <76D816CA-031C-4C12-A62D-44E7648C6E23@me.com>

Or his computer was too old to even attempt it. I've learned most of those idiots don't know the potential of their own hardware.


On Jan 16, 2010, at 10:12 PM, auditodd at comcast.net wrote:

> Looks like and costs about the same as the Samsung model I bought from NewEgg a few months ago.
> 
> Works fine for me.
> Some idiot on NewEgg was complaining that he couldn't use it to boot a computer off of (the Samsung model).
> He was wrong...



From bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 18 15:00:09 2010
From: bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com (bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:00:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
Message-ID: <SNT121-DS471AA507E6CF6084841D683660@phx.gbl>

Hello.

I admit, I haven't methodically searched all archives for an answer to this, 
but maybe someone can tell me:

I have tried to use my browser (Opera) to access certain sites in Fedora 
(9,10,11,12), but more and more often am told that the site requires Adobe 
plug-ins like shockwave and flashplayer. My machine runs 64-bit x86_64 
Fedora.

I have downloaded libflashplayer.so, understood to be a 32-bit library, but 
I am at a loss as far as where to put libflashplayer.so in the filesystem. I 
have tried various locations, such as /lib/mozilla/plug-ins, and 
/us/lib/opera/plug-ins and extensions.

I don't know whether the 32-bit library is just ignored by the 64-bit 
system, or whether I should place them in the 64 bit library path (i.e., 
/usr/lib64/...).

Seems to me that I tried those 64-bit locations, which is somewhat weird 
because the library is still 32-bit.

Am I on a wild goose chase, or is there a way to make this work?

Bryan Z.

bryan dot Zimmer at
    hotmail.com 



From tclug1 at greatlakedata.com  Mon Jan 18 09:36:29 2010
From: tclug1 at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:36:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
Message-ID: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>

i've both gutsy and hardy installed in separate partitions, i'm running the
hardy kernel.   i can chroot into the gutsy partition, and firefox, xmms,
and xfce4-mixer are all able to play and control sound, so the hardy kernel
sound clearly works fine.  in the hardy partition however, firefox and
audacious are mute, and xfce4-mixer comes up as a blank window with no
controls.  no packages were forced, i'm quite sure all dependencies were
satisfied as a matter of course (tho how do i verify that?).  still,
dependencies notwithstanding, my guess is that a critical package or three
are likely wanting.  any suggestions?
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From pcutler at gnome.org  Mon Jan 18 09:51:25 2010
From: pcutler at gnome.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:51:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
In-Reply-To: <SNT121-DS471AA507E6CF6084841D683660@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT121-DS471AA507E6CF6084841D683660@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B54837D.70007@gnome.org>

Bryan,

On 01/18/2010 03:00 PM, bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> I admit, I haven't methodically searched all archives for an answer to this, 
> but maybe someone can tell me:
> 
> I have tried to use my browser (Opera) to access certain sites in Fedora 
> (9,10,11,12), but more and more often am told that the site requires Adobe 
> plug-ins like shockwave and flashplayer. My machine runs 64-bit x86_64 
> Fedora.
> 
> I have downloaded libflashplayer.so, understood to be a 32-bit library, but 
> I am at a loss as far as where to put libflashplayer.so in the filesystem. I 
> have tried various locations, such as /lib/mozilla/plug-ins, and 
> /us/lib/opera/plug-ins and extensions.
> 
> I don't know whether the 32-bit library is just ignored by the 64-bit 
> system, or whether I should place them in the 64 bit library path (i.e., 
> /usr/lib64/...).
> 
> Seems to me that I tried those 64-bit locations, which is somewhat weird 
> because the library is still 32-bit.
> 
> Am I on a wild goose chase, or is there a way to make this work?
> 
> Bryan Z.
> 
> bryan dot Zimmer at
>     hotmail.com 
> 

I can't speak for Opera, but on Fedora 12 x86_64 with Firefox and
Chrome, I use Adobe Flash 10.  Download the file[1], extract it and put
libflashplayer.so in /home/user/.mozilla/plugins and it works for me.

Paul



From admin at lctn.org  Mon Jan 18 10:30:30 2010
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:30:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
In-Reply-To: <SNT121-DS471AA507E6CF6084841D683660@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT121-DS471AA507E6CF6084841D683660@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B548CA6.6090109@lctn.org>

> I have tried to use my browser (Opera) to access certain sites in Fedora 
> (9,10,11,12), but more and more often am told that the site requires Adobe 
> plug-ins like shockwave and flashplayer. My machine runs 64-bit x86_64 
> Fedora.
> 
> I have downloaded libflashplayer.so, understood to be a 32-bit library, but 
> I am at a loss as far as where to put libflashplayer.so in the filesystem. I 
> have tried various locations, such as /lib/mozilla/plug-ins, and 
> /us/lib/opera/plug-ins and extensions.


Have you tried installing gnash from source. It was the only way I could 
get my powerpc with Ubuntu to play flash decent. Deb packages did not do 
the trick, but it is working great now. The README file has the make 
command for the Mozilla plugin. My default it will install in the 
current users ./mozilla plugin folder, even if you use sudo, unless you 
set it during ./configure


http://www.gnashdev.org/


From larrymcmains at comcast.net  Mon Jan 18 11:31:57 2010
From: larrymcmains at comcast.net (Larry McMains)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:31:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
Message-ID: <4B549B0D.3060402@comcast.net>

I'm trying to get my USB printer (a Brother MFC-420CN) to work with 
Ubuntu 9.10 Linux. I've found several references that say it should be 
fully supported, and I've followed the instructions on the Brother 
Solutions center page 
(http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/instruction_prn1a.html), 
installing the lpr and CUPS drivers, verifying they're there, ..., right 
up to the point where I'm to use the CUPS interface to verify that my 
printer is there (isn't not) and if not, use the CUPS admin interface 
and add the printer and "correct" driver. When I run though the admin 
interface "add printer" function, it shows my Brother printer as a local 
printer choice, but when I select that and try to continue, I'm asked to 
select the model from a drop down list, and the 420cn is not listed. 
(Again a previous step to verify the drivers installed correctly 
indicates success.) Clearly I'm overlooking something - would anyone 
have any suggestions on how to proceed?

Larry


From bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 18 18:05:29 2010
From: bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com (bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:05:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
In-Reply-To: <4B54837D.70007@gnome.org>
References: <SNT121-DS471AA507E6CF6084841D683660@phx.gbl>
	<4B54837D.70007@gnome.org>
Message-ID: <SNT121-DS140D04EE8EC7C190E046D183660@phx.gbl>

Hi. Thanks for the response. I put libflashplayer.so in 
/home/[user]/.mozilla/plugins, and went to tpt.org using Firefox. The page 
still told me I need a plugin. "Click here to download plugin". I clicked 
and chose the "rpm" version to download. I then opened it from its install 
folder and opened it with rpm, which asked twice for the root password, but 
when it was done, the page still said "Click here to download plugin"...


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Cutler" <pcutler at gnome.org>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 9:51 AM
To: <bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com>
Cc: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64

> Bryan,
>
> On 01/18/2010 03:00 PM, bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> I admit, I haven't methodically searched all archives for an answer to 
>> this,
>> but maybe someone can tell me:
>>
>> I have tried to use my browser (Opera) to access certain sites in Fedora
>> (9,10,11,12), but more and more often am told that the site requires 
>> Adobe
>> plug-ins like shockwave and flashplayer. My machine runs 64-bit x86_64
>> Fedora.
>>
>> I have downloaded libflashplayer.so, understood to be a 32-bit library, 
>> but
>> I am at a loss as far as where to put libflashplayer.so in the 
>> filesystem. I
>> have tried various locations, such as /lib/mozilla/plug-ins, and
>> /us/lib/opera/plug-ins and extensions.
>>
>> I don't know whether the 32-bit library is just ignored by the 64-bit
>> system, or whether I should place them in the 64 bit library path (i.e.,
>> /usr/lib64/...).
>>
>> Seems to me that I tried those 64-bit locations, which is somewhat weird
>> because the library is still 32-bit.
>>
>> Am I on a wild goose chase, or is there a way to make this work?
>>
>> Bryan Z.
>>
>> bryan dot Zimmer at
>>     hotmail.com
>>
>
> I can't speak for Opera, but on Fedora 12 x86_64 with Firefox and
> Chrome, I use Adobe Flash 10.  Download the file[1], extract it and put
> libflashplayer.so in /home/user/.mozilla/plugins and it works for me.
>
> Paul
>
> 


From dan at dburkland.com  Mon Jan 18 12:15:33 2010
From: dan at dburkland.com (Dan Burkland)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:15:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1263837603.3179.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1263837603.3179.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <CCC6E6D7-B0F2-4EF7-AA68-11E037A604F2@dburkland.com>

You do not need to perform any emulation to get flash to work natively  
in an x64 environment any longer. Adobe offers a alpha/beta version  
which you can download here: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html 
  I'm guessing you are using Firefox so just extract the tar.gz  
archive into ~/.mozilla/plugins/. Once that has been done you should  
have flash without any frills.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2010, at 12:00 PM, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote:

> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
>    tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
>      (bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com)
>   2. pursuing hardy sound (greg wm)
>   3. Re: Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64 (Paul Cutler)
>   4. Re: Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64 (Raymond Norton)
>   5. Installing Brother Printer Driver (Larry McMains)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:00:09 -0600
> From: <bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
> To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Cc: bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com
> Message-ID: <SNT121-DS471AA507E6CF6084841D683660 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
>
> Hello.
>
> I admit, I haven't methodically searched all archives for an answer  
> to this,
> but maybe someone can tell me:
>
> I have tried to use my browser (Opera) to access certain sites in  
> Fedora
> (9,10,11,12), but more and more often am told that the site requires  
> Adobe
> plug-ins like shockwave and flashplayer. My machine runs 64-bit x86_64
> Fedora.
>
> I have downloaded libflashplayer.so, understood to be a 32-bit  
> library, but
> I am at a loss as far as where to put libflashplayer.so in the  
> filesystem. I
> have tried various locations, such as /lib/mozilla/plug-ins, and
> /us/lib/opera/plug-ins and extensions.
>
> I don't know whether the 32-bit library is just ignored by the 64-bit
> system, or whether I should place them in the 64 bit library path  
> (i.e.,
> /usr/lib64/...).
>
> Seems to me that I tried those 64-bit locations, which is somewhat  
> weird
> because the library is still 32-bit.
>
> Am I on a wild goose chase, or is there a way to make this work?
>
> Bryan Z.
>
> bryan dot Zimmer at
>    hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:36:29 -0600
> From: greg wm <tclug1 at greatlakedata.com>
> Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID:
>    <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> i've both gutsy and hardy installed in separate partitions, i'm  
> running the
> hardy kernel.   i can chroot into the gutsy partition, and firefox,  
> xmms,
> and xfce4-mixer are all able to play and control sound, so the hardy  
> kernel
> sound clearly works fine.  in the hardy partition however, firefox and
> audacious are mute, and xfce4-mixer comes up as a blank window with no
> controls.  no packages were forced, i'm quite sure all dependencies  
> were
> satisfied as a matter of course (tho how do i verify that?).  still,
> dependencies notwithstanding, my guess is that a critical package or  
> three
> are likely wanting.  any suggestions?
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100118/02f39d8e/attachment.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:51:25 -0600
> From: Paul Cutler <pcutler at gnome.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
> To: bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <4B54837D.70007 at gnome.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Bryan,
>
> On 01/18/2010 03:00 PM, bryan.zimmer at hotmail.com wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> I admit, I haven't methodically searched all archives for an answer  
>> to this,
>> but maybe someone can tell me:
>>
>> I have tried to use my browser (Opera) to access certain sites in  
>> Fedora
>> (9,10,11,12), but more and more often am told that the site  
>> requires Adobe
>> plug-ins like shockwave and flashplayer. My machine runs 64-bit  
>> x86_64
>> Fedora.
>>
>> I have downloaded libflashplayer.so, understood to be a 32-bit  
>> library, but
>> I am at a loss as far as where to put libflashplayer.so in the  
>> filesystem. I
>> have tried various locations, such as /lib/mozilla/plug-ins, and
>> /us/lib/opera/plug-ins and extensions.
>>
>> I don't know whether the 32-bit library is just ignored by the 64-bit
>> system, or whether I should place them in the 64 bit library path  
>> (i.e.,
>> /usr/lib64/...).
>>
>> Seems to me that I tried those 64-bit locations, which is somewhat  
>> weird
>> because the library is still 32-bit.
>>
>> Am I on a wild goose chase, or is there a way to make this work?
>>
>> Bryan Z.
>>
>> bryan dot Zimmer at
>>    hotmail.com
>>
>
> I can't speak for Opera, but on Fedora 12 x86_64 with Firefox and
> Chrome, I use Adobe Flash 10.  Download the file[1], extract it and  
> put
> libflashplayer.so in /home/user/.mozilla/plugins and it works for me.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:30:30 -0600
> From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using Adobe Flash and Shockwave on Fedora 64
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <4B548CA6.6090109 at lctn.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>> I have tried to use my browser (Opera) to access certain sites in  
>> Fedora
>> (9,10,11,12), but more and more often am told that the site  
>> requires Adobe
>> plug-ins like shockwave and flashplayer. My machine runs 64-bit  
>> x86_64
>> Fedora.
>>
>> I have downloaded libflashplayer.so, understood to be a 32-bit  
>> library, but
>> I am at a loss as far as where to put libflashplayer.so in the  
>> filesystem. I
>> have tried various locations, such as /lib/mozilla/plug-ins, and
>> /us/lib/opera/plug-ins and extensions.
>
>
> Have you tried installing gnash from source. It was the only way I  
> could
> get my powerpc with Ubuntu to play flash decent. Deb packages did  
> not do
> the trick, but it is working great now. The README file has the make
> command for the Mozilla plugin. My default it will install in the
> current users ./mozilla plugin folder, even if you use sudo, unless  
> you
> set it during ./configure
>
>
> http://www.gnashdev.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:31:57 -0600
> From: Larry McMains <larrymcmains at comcast.net>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Message-ID: <4B549B0D.3060402 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I'm trying to get my USB printer (a Brother MFC-420CN) to work with
> Ubuntu 9.10 Linux. I've found several references that say it should be
> fully supported, and I've followed the instructions on the Brother
> Solutions center page
> (http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/instruction_prn1a.html 
> ),
> installing the lpr and CUPS drivers, verifying they're there, ...,  
> right
> up to the point where I'm to use the CUPS interface to verify that my
> printer is there (isn't not) and if not, use the CUPS admin interface
> and add the printer and "correct" driver. When I run though the admin
> interface "add printer" function, it shows my Brother printer as a  
> local
> printer choice, but when I select that and try to continue, I'm  
> asked to
> select the model from a drop down list, and the 420cn is not listed.
> (Again a previous step to verify the drivers installed correctly
> indicates success.) Clearly I'm overlooking something - would anyone
> have any suggestions on how to proceed?
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 61, Issue 18
> ******************************************


From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 14:58:03 2010
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:58:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
In-Reply-To: <4B549B0D.3060402@comcast.net>
References: <4B549B0D.3060402@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <254fef0f1001181258u7287f444j275c8839767982ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Larry McMains
<larrymcmains at comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm trying to get my USB printer (a Brother MFC-420CN) to work with
> Ubuntu 9.10 Linux. I've found several references that say it should be
> fully supported, and I've followed the instructions on the Brother
> Solutions center page
> (http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/instruction_prn1a.html),
> installing the lpr and CUPS drivers, verifying they're there, ..., right
> up to the point where I'm to use the CUPS interface to verify that my
> printer is there (isn't not) and if not, use the CUPS admin interface
> and add the printer and "correct" driver. When I run though the admin
> interface "add printer" function, it shows my Brother printer as a local
> printer choice, but when I select that and try to continue, I'm asked to
> select the model from a drop down list, and the 420cn is not listed.
> (Again a previous step to verify the drivers installed correctly
> indicates success.) Clearly I'm overlooking something - would anyone
> have any suggestions on how to proceed?
>
> Larry

As an offhand guess, is there some step needed to 'register' a driver
to make it show up in the admin GUI's list after you've installed it?
I don't know if that list is autobuilt or based on some XML or similar
file of "known types".

 - Tony Yarusso


From bgilbertson at rrt.net  Tue Jan 19 08:13:03 2010
From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (bgilbertson at rrt.net)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:13:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
Message-ID: <4b55bdf0.0.1364.490286702@rrt.net>

Larry,

Is there a reason you can't use the Ethernet connection?
I have used this printer with the network connection and
print, scan and fax all worked from Mandriva using the
Brother drivers.

Regards,
Bob

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Larry McMains <larrymcmains at comcast.net>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:31:57 -0600

> I'm trying to get my USB printer (a Brother MFC-420CN) to
> work with  Ubuntu 9.10 Linux. I've found several
> references that say it should be  fully supported, and
> I've followed the instructions on the Brother  Solutions
> center page 
> (http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linu
> x/en/instruction_prn1a.html),  installing the lpr and CUPS
> drivers, verifying they're there, ..., right  up to the
> point where I'm to use the CUPS interface to verify that
> my  printer is there (isn't not) and if not, use the CUPS
> admin interface  and add the printer and "correct" driver.
> When I run though the admin  interface "add printer"
> function, it shows my Brother printer as a local  printer
> choice, but when I select that and try to continue, I'm
> asked to  select the model from a drop down list, and the
> 420cn is not listed.  (Again a previous step to verify the
> drivers installed correctly  indicates success.) Clearly
> I'm overlooking something - would anyone  have any
> suggestions on how to proceed?
> 
> Larry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Jan 19 09:24:16 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:24:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>

On 1/18/2010 9:36 AM, greg wm wrote:
> i've both gutsy and hardy installed in separate partitions, i'm running
> the hardy kernel.   i can chroot into the gutsy partition, and firefox,
> xmms, and xfce4-mixer are all able to play and control sound, so the
> hardy kernel sound clearly works fine.  in the hardy partition however,
> firefox and audacious are mute, and xfce4-mixer comes up as a blank
> window with no controls.  no packages were forced, i'm quite sure all
> dependencies were satisfied as a matter of course (tho how do i verify
> that?).  still, dependencies notwithstanding, my guess is that a
> critical package or three are likely wanting.  any suggestions?

What about alsamixer? Whats your sound card identified when running 
lspci or dmesg?
_______________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From tclug1 at greatlakedata.com  Tue Jan 19 11:58:57 2010
From: tclug1 at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:58:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Mr. MailingLists <mailinglists at soul-dev.com
> wrote:

> On 1/18/2010 9:36 AM, greg wm wrote:
> > i've both gutsy and hardy installed in separate partitions, i'm running
> > the hardy kernel.   i can chroot into the gutsy partition, and firefox,
> > xmms, and xfce4-mixer are all able to play and control sound, so the
> > hardy kernel sound clearly works fine.  in the hardy partition however,
> > firefox and audacious are mute, and xfce4-mixer comes up as a blank
> > window with no controls.  no packages were forced, i'm quite sure all
> > dependencies were satisfied as a matter of course (tho how do i verify
> > that?).  still, dependencies notwithstanding, my guess is that a
> > critical package or three are likely wanting.  any suggestions?
>
> What about alsamixer? Whats your sound card identified when running
> lspci or dmesg?
>

alsamixer fails to launch, says
alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
directory
lsmod contains
snd                    56996  12
snd_es18xx,snd_pcm,snd_opl3_lib,snd_timer,snd_hwdep,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device
snd_es18xx             35124  2
snd_hwdep              10500  1 snd_opl3_lib
snd_mpu401_uart         9728  1 snd_es18xx
snd_opl3_lib           12928  1 snd_es18xx
snd_page_alloc         11400  1 snd_pcm
snd_pcm                78724  1 snd_es18xx
snd_rawmidi            25760  1 snd_mpu401_uart
snd_seq_device          9612  2 snd_opl3_lib,snd_rawmidi
snd_timer              24836  2 snd_pcm,snd_opl3_lib
soundcore               8800  1 snd
-------------- next part --------------
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From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Jan 19 12:59:50 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:59:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>
	<429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>

On 1/19/2010 11:58 AM, greg wm wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Mr. MailingLists
> <mailinglists at soul-dev.com <mailto:mailinglists at soul-dev.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 1/18/2010 9:36 AM, greg wm wrote:
>      > i've both gutsy and hardy installed in separate partitions, i'm
>     running
>      > the hardy kernel.   i can chroot into the gutsy partition, and
>     firefox,
>      > xmms, and xfce4-mixer are all able to play and control sound, so the
>      > hardy kernel sound clearly works fine.  in the hardy partition
>     however,
>      > firefox and audacious are mute, and xfce4-mixer comes up as a blank
>      > window with no controls.  no packages were forced, i'm quite sure all
>      > dependencies were satisfied as a matter of course (tho how do i
>     verify
>      > that?).  still, dependencies notwithstanding, my guess is that a
>      > critical package or three are likely wanting.  any suggestions?
>
>     What about alsamixer? Whats your sound card identified when running
>     lspci or dmesg?
>
>
> alsamixer fails to launch, says
> alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
> directory
> lsmod contains
> snd                    56996  12
> snd_es18xx,snd_pcm,snd_opl3_lib,snd_timer,snd_hwdep,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device
> snd_es18xx             35124  2
> snd_hwdep              10500  1 snd_opl3_lib
> snd_mpu401_uart         9728  1 snd_es18xx
> snd_opl3_lib           12928  1 snd_es18xx
> snd_page_alloc         11400  1 snd_pcm
> snd_pcm                78724  1 snd_es18xx
> snd_rawmidi            25760  1 snd_mpu401_uart
> snd_seq_device          9612  2 snd_opl3_lib,snd_rawmidi
> snd_timer              24836  2 snd_pcm,snd_opl3_lib
> soundcore               8800  1 snd

How about 'strace -eopen alsamixer'. Is there anything alsamixer is 
unable to load? Try as root too, you may be missing a user group. There 
looks to be a bundle of information on the Ubuntu forums about this as 
well so that may be a good read too.

Otherwise, make sure your system is up to date and running the latest 
kernel (not sure what the Hardy roadmap looks like so I am unsure as to 
what the lastest is, just run apt-get install dist-upgrade)


From admin at lctn.org  Tue Jan 19 15:24:28 2010
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:24:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Trouble getting wireless working on PowerPC with Ubuntu
Message-ID: <4B56230C.9070307@lctn.org>

I have Ubuntu 1.8.10 server with X and gnome installed. I am attempting 
to get my USB wireless adapter working on it.



Here is the output from lsusb:
Bus 001 Device 006: ID 050d:705a Belkin Components F5D7050A Wireless Adapter

The messages log shows the following:

an 17 15:52:14 imac kernel: [14186.584008] usb 1-2: new full speed USB 
device using ohci_hcd and address 6
Jan 17 15:52:14 imac kernel: [14186.643967] usb 1-2: configuration #1 
chosen from 1 choice
Jan 17 15:52:16 imac kernel: [14187.872641] usbcore: registered new 
interface driver rt2500usb
Jan 17 15:52:17 imac kernel: [14188.509399] usbcore: registered new 
interface driver rt73usb

Iwconfig shows:

o wireless extensions.

eth1      no wireless extensions.

pan0      no wireless extensions.

wmaster0  no wireless extensions.

wlan0     IEEE 802.11g  ESSID:
           Mode:Managed  Channel:0  Access Point: Not-Associated
           Tx-Power=0 dBm
           Retry min limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr=2352 B
           Encryption key:off
           Link Quality:0  Signal level:0  Noise level:0
           Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
           Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0


Ifconfig wlan0 up shows:
root at imac:~# ifconfig wlan0 up
SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such file or directory




I have tried adding necessary info to /etc/network/interfaces, but no 
go. Wi-fi radar does not work. Ndiswrapper will not work on this 
architecture, and iwlist wlan0 scan does not work.

The adapter works fine on my Linux Mint laptop.

Any idea what steps I need to follow to get this adapter working?



From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Jan 19 15:57:27 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:57:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Trouble getting wireless working on PowerPC with
 Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <4B56230C.9070307@lctn.org>
References: <4B56230C.9070307@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <4B562AC7.7070703@soul-dev.com>

On 1/19/2010 3:24 PM, Raymond Norton wrote:
> I have Ubuntu 1.8.10 server with X and gnome installed. I am attempting
> to get my USB wireless adapter working on it.
>
>
>
> Here is the output from lsusb:
> Bus 001 Device 006: ID 050d:705a Belkin Components F5D7050A Wireless Adapter
>
> The messages log shows the following:
>
> an 17 15:52:14 imac kernel: [14186.584008] usb 1-2: new full speed USB
> device using ohci_hcd and address 6
> Jan 17 15:52:14 imac kernel: [14186.643967] usb 1-2: configuration #1
> chosen from 1 choice
> Jan 17 15:52:16 imac kernel: [14187.872641] usbcore: registered new
> interface driver rt2500usb
> Jan 17 15:52:17 imac kernel: [14188.509399] usbcore: registered new
> interface driver rt73usb
>
> Iwconfig shows:
>
> o wireless extensions.
>
> eth1      no wireless extensions.
>
> pan0      no wireless extensions.
>
> wmaster0  no wireless extensions.
>
> wlan0     IEEE 802.11g  ESSID:
>             Mode:Managed  Channel:0  Access Point: Not-Associated
>             Tx-Power=0 dBm
>             Retry min limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr=2352 B
>             Encryption key:off
>             Link Quality:0  Signal level:0  Noise level:0
>             Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
>             Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0
>
>
> Ifconfig wlan0 up shows:
> root at imac:~# ifconfig wlan0 up
> SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such file or directory
>
>
>
>
> I have tried adding necessary info to /etc/network/interfaces, but no
> go. Wi-fi radar does not work. Ndiswrapper will not work on this
> architecture, and iwlist wlan0 scan does not work.
>
> The adapter works fine on my Linux Mint laptop.
>
> Any idea what steps I need to follow to get this adapter working?
>

Probably missing the ralink firmware as is the usual suspect for this 
error. You could probably confirm by looking at the syslog when you try 
to bring this adapter up.

Ensure you have firmware-ralink installed and try again. Hopefully this 
works ;-)

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Jan 19 16:22:53 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:22:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Trouble getting wireless working on PowerPC with
 Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <4B562AC7.7070703@soul-dev.com>
References: <4B56230C.9070307@lctn.org> <4B562AC7.7070703@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <4B5630BD.6060807@soul-dev.com>

On 1/19/2010 3:57 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
> On 1/19/2010 3:24 PM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>> I have Ubuntu 1.8.10 server with X and gnome installed. I am attempting
>> to get my USB wireless adapter working on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is the output from lsusb:
>> Bus 001 Device 006: ID 050d:705a Belkin Components F5D7050A Wireless Adapter
>>
>> The messages log shows the following:
>>
>> an 17 15:52:14 imac kernel: [14186.584008] usb 1-2: new full speed USB
>> device using ohci_hcd and address 6
>> Jan 17 15:52:14 imac kernel: [14186.643967] usb 1-2: configuration #1
>> chosen from 1 choice
>> Jan 17 15:52:16 imac kernel: [14187.872641] usbcore: registered new
>> interface driver rt2500usb
>> Jan 17 15:52:17 imac kernel: [14188.509399] usbcore: registered new
>> interface driver rt73usb
>>
>> Iwconfig shows:
>>
>> o wireless extensions.
>>
>> eth1      no wireless extensions.
>>
>> pan0      no wireless extensions.
>>
>> wmaster0  no wireless extensions.
>>
>> wlan0     IEEE 802.11g  ESSID:
>>              Mode:Managed  Channel:0  Access Point: Not-Associated
>>              Tx-Power=0 dBm
>>              Retry min limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr=2352 B
>>              Encryption key:off
>>              Link Quality:0  Signal level:0  Noise level:0
>>              Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
>>              Tx excessive retries:0  Invalid misc:0   Missed beacon:0
>>
>>
>> Ifconfig wlan0 up shows:
>> root at imac:~# ifconfig wlan0 up
>> SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such file or directory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have tried adding necessary info to /etc/network/interfaces, but no
>> go. Wi-fi radar does not work. Ndiswrapper will not work on this
>> architecture, and iwlist wlan0 scan does not work.
>>
>> The adapter works fine on my Linux Mint laptop.
>>
>> Any idea what steps I need to follow to get this adapter working?
>>
>
> Probably missing the ralink firmware as is the usual suspect for this
> error. You could probably confirm by looking at the syslog when you try
> to bring this adapter up.
>
> Ensure you have firmware-ralink installed and try again. Hopefully this
> works ;-)
>
Err, that package may not be available for intrepid. I believe  Is 
available for intrepid and also contains the firmware.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/net/rt73-common

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From rhubarbpie at poetworld.net  Tue Jan 19 17:16:07 2010
From: rhubarbpie at poetworld.net (rhubarbpie at poetworld.net)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:16:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] KDE 4.x
Message-ID: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>


Is there a distribution using KDE 4 that works?  Although my working 
partition uses Linux From Scratch and Fluxbox, I like testing other 
distros.  I've tried kubuntu and just loaded openSUSE-11.2.  Although 
openSUSE mostly works, KDE has been a (bad word here) disaster.

KDE applications crash and settings I do successfully save revert upon 
reboot.  I don't mean to be overly cynical and my testing hasn't been 
extensive.  So, is anyone having luck with KDE 4.x and a distribution?


From ian.greenleaf at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 17:42:55 2010
From: ian.greenleaf at gmail.com (Ian Young)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:42:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] KDE 4.x
In-Reply-To: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
Message-ID: <4B56437F.7090404@gmail.com>

This is probably a touchy subject, but I know there's a lot of
discontent out there at the moment about the state of KDE 4.x. I'm a
Gnome user but have gotten pulled into it because I used and loved
Amarok 1.4, and am being railroaded into upgrading to Amarok 2 (by
Gentoo, of all distributions). There's some Reddit griping at
<http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/84zux/who_else_feels_amarok2_is_a_huge_dissapointment/>.
While it's from months ago, most of the complaints still feel completely
relevant.

Ian

On 01/19/2010 05:16 PM, rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote:
> 
> Is there a distribution using KDE 4 that works?  Although my working 
> partition uses Linux From Scratch and Fluxbox, I like testing other 
> distros.  I've tried kubuntu and just loaded openSUSE-11.2.  Although 
> openSUSE mostly works, KDE has been a (bad word here) disaster.
> 
> KDE applications crash and settings I do successfully save revert upon 
> reboot.  I don't mean to be overly cynical and my testing hasn't been 
> extensive.  So, is anyone having luck with KDE 4.x and a distribution?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From admin at lctn.org  Tue Jan 19 21:01:32 2010
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 21:01:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Trouble getting wireless working on PowerPC with
 Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <4B5630BD.6060807@soul-dev.com>
References: <4B56230C.9070307@lctn.org> <4B562AC7.7070703@soul-dev.com>
	<4B5630BD.6060807@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <4B56720C.3000606@lctn.org>

Err, that package may not be available for intrepid. I believe Is
> available for intrepid and also contains the firmware.
>
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/net/rt73-common
>
>   


Yes, that worked.

Thanks


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 21:40:28 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 21:40:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Amarok (was "KDE 4.x")
In-Reply-To: <4B56437F.7090404@gmail.com>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net> <4B56437F.7090404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001192129340.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 19 Jan 2010, Ian Young wrote:

> I'm a Gnome user but have gotten pulled into it because I used and loved 
> Amarok 1.4, and am being railroaded into upgrading to Amarok 2 (by 
> Gentoo, of all distributions). There's some Reddit griping at 
> <http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/84zux/who_else_feels_amarok2_is_a_huge_dissapointment/>. 
> While it's from months ago, most of the complaints still feel completely 
> relevant.


I started a new thread.  I've used Amarok just a little, but I'm thinking 
of spending some time on learning it better.  Before I do that, I'd like 
to hear what other people are thinking of it and what other solutions 
there are for managing large numbers of audio files.

I'm especially interested in a client/server kind of system where the 
media files and Db can be stored on one machine but other machines can
access Amarok on the remote machine and stream the audio.

Mike


From ian.greenleaf at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 22:21:47 2010
From: ian.greenleaf at gmail.com (Ian Young)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:21:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Amarok (was "KDE 4.x")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001192129340.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <g4nlxevyujsfrtmveyUYAxe124vaj_firegpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010, Ian Young wrote:
>
>> I'm a Gnome user but have gotten pulled into it because I used and loved
>> Amarok 1.4, and am being railroaded into upgrading to Amarok 2 (by
>> Gentoo, of all distributions). There's some Reddit griping at
>> <http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/84zux/who_else_feels_amarok2_is_a_huge_dissapointment/>.
>> While it's from months ago, most of the complaints still feel completely
>> relevant.
>
>
> I started a new thread. ?I've used Amarok just a little, but I'm thinking
> of spending some time on learning it better. ?Before I do that, I'd like
> to hear what other people are thinking of it and what other solutions
> there are for managing large numbers of audio files.
>
> I'm especially interested in a client/server kind of system where the
> media files and Db can be stored on one machine but other machines can
> access Amarok on the remote machine and stream the audio.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

Well, for the record, I really did love Amarok 1.4, more than I have loved any other music player ever (even Winamp in the good old days). But it's seeming to get the "flagged for removal" treatment in a lot of distros these days.

Amarok 1.4 had a web frontend (http://sourceforge.net/projects/amarokwebfront/) that was a pretty neat idea - it used your existing amarok db and served up a webapp for streaming or downloading your music. I used it for a little while - it was alright, but had a few bugs, and development on it seems to be quite dead. I have no idea if anything similar exists or is in the works for Amarok 2.

Another project to check out is Subsonic (http://gosubsonic.com/pages/index.jsp). I haven't used it very much personally, but was very impressed with the ease of setup and slickness of the interface. One of my coworkers has it set up on her home computer and regularly uses it at work.

Ian
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From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Tue Jan 19 15:58:33 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. Mailinglists)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:58:33 +0100
Subject: [tclug-list] Amarok (was "KDE 4.x")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001192129340.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net> <4B56437F.7090404@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1001192129340.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4B562B09.60409@soul-dev.com>

On 1/20/2010 4:40 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010, Ian Young wrote:
>
>    
>> I'm a Gnome user but have gotten pulled into it because I used and loved
>> Amarok 1.4, and am being railroaded into upgrading to Amarok 2 (by
>> Gentoo, of all distributions). There's some Reddit griping at
>> <http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/84zux/who_else_feels_amarok2_is_a_huge_dissapointment/>.
>> While it's from months ago, most of the complaints still feel completely
>> relevant.
>>      
>
> I started a new thread.  I've used Amarok just a little, but I'm thinking
> of spending some time on learning it better.  Before I do that, I'd like
> to hear what other people are thinking of it and what other solutions
> there are for managing large numbers of audio files.
>
> I'm especially interested in a client/server kind of system where the
> media files and Db can be stored on one machine but other machines can
> access Amarok on the remote machine and stream the audio.
>
> Mike
>
>    
Not a standalone application but I have been using Jinzora (web based 
app) which optionally stores index data in a *sql database. Also, this 
way your client installs are probably already done (http(s) streaming 
anyone?). Definitely not enterprise ready by any means but works great 
for my 120+ gigs of random MP3s. Seems to match your ideal description 
pretty well Mike.


From tclug1 at greatlakedata.com  Wed Jan 20 01:23:13 2010
From: tclug1 at greatlakedata.com (greg wm)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:23:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>
	<429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>

>
> How about 'strace -eopen alsamixer'. Is there anything alsamixer is
> unable to load? Try as root too, you may be missing a user group. There
> looks to be a bundle of information on the Ubuntu forums about this as
> well so that may be a good read too.
>
> Otherwise, make sure your system is up to date and running the latest
> kernel (not sure what the Hardy roadmap looks like so I am unsure as to
> what the lastest is, just run apt-get install dist-upgrade)
>

yes i'm dist-upgrade already.  as root, works, bingo!  also works as the
user created by the ubuntu installer.  but as any other user, not.  if i
deprive that orig user of it's orig home directory content, then that user
also fails to access sound.  but if i use the content of that orig home
directory for another user (chown -R user.user), no help.  mimicing all the
orig user entries in /etc/group and /etc/gshadow also no help.  failure
looks like
$ audacious /g/radio.pls
 MADPlug-Message: failed to open audio output: XMMS reverse compatibility
output plugin
$  strace -eopen alsamixer
open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 3
open("/lib/libncurses.so.5", O_RDONLY)  = 3
open("/usr/lib/libasound.so.2", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libm.so.6", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl.so.2", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/dev/urandom", O_RDONLY)          = 3
open("/usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/dev/snd/controlC0", O_RDONLY)    = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
open("/dev/aloadC0", O_RDONLY)          = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
directory)

alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
directory
Process 18713 detached
i suppose i'm about ready to punt and just chown all my stuff over to that
orig installer user, but anybody got any suggestion how perhaps to get sound
working for any other user?
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From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Wed Jan 20 07:00:16 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:00:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] KDE 4.x
In-Reply-To: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
Message-ID: <4B56FE60.7030303@netscape.net>

On 1/19/2010 5:16 PM, rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote:
>
> Is there a distribution using KDE 4 that works?  Although my working
> partition uses Linux From Scratch and Fluxbox, I like testing other
> distros.  I've tried kubuntu and just loaded openSUSE-11.2.  Although
> openSUSE mostly works, KDE has been a (bad word here) disaster.
>
> KDE applications crash and settings I do successfully save revert upon
> reboot.  I don't mean to be overly cynical and my testing hasn't been
> extensive.  So, is anyone having luck with KDE 4.x and a distribution?
>

Give Slackware 13 a try.


-- 
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors.
You have our gratitude.
Those who oppose us will be sent to Detroit.


From gm5729 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 07:33:49 2010
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (GK)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 07:33:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] KDE 4.x
In-Reply-To: <4B56FE60.7030303@netscape.net>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
 <4B56FE60.7030303@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <20100120133349.GA23191@lauren>

On 01/20/10 at 07:00am, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> On 1/19/2010 5:16 PM, rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote:
> >
> Give Slackware 13 a try.

I tried Slack-current when it was 12 and 4.2.x did NOT work for me.
When I was on testing in Debian 4.2.x did NOT work for me.
In ArchLinux where I call it my distro of use 4.3.x does NOT work for
me.

KDE4.x looks like a clone of w7 or vice-versa. The 3.5.x series of KDE,
Flux, Xmonad, Awesome, XFCE all work for me INCLUDING ALL KDE4.x
applications with ZERO problems.

I filed a bug a long time ago but man if they can't get it right by
4.4.x almost. It's a lemon. The plasmas overwhelmingly crash, and I get
lockups like crazy. Which result in sometimes working C-M_R-E-I-S-U-B
syncs adn reboots. The blame is supposedly on Intels drivers, which I do
agree have been shaky but EVERY other WM/DE works including their own
3.5.x series with no problems. There's another argument that it's Xorg's
problem and other DE/WM fault, but again their product fails even though
we are stringent in following POSIX. PPfffffttttt is all I have to say.
Plasma and the moving window manager is a flop. Trash that part an keep
the ones that work. 

VampirePenguin


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From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Wed Jan 20 08:41:56 2010
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:41:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] KDE 4.x
In-Reply-To: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
Message-ID: <201001200841.56608.bbaptist@iexposure.com>

On Tuesday 19 January 2010 05:16:07 pm rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote:
> Is there a distribution using KDE 4 that works?  Although my working
> partition uses Linux From Scratch and Fluxbox, I like testing other
> distros.  I've tried kubuntu and just loaded openSUSE-11.2.  Although
> openSUSE mostly works, KDE has been a (bad word here) disaster.
> 
> KDE applications crash and settings I do successfully save revert upon
> reboot.  I don't mean to be overly cynical and my testing hasn't been
> extensive.  So, is anyone having luck with KDE 4.x and a distribution?
> 

I have had really great luck using Arch Linux, and specifically the Chakra 
Project repository of Arch.

http://www.archlinux.org/
http://chakra-project.org/


You will have to know Linux well though, this is not a hand holding distro.

-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
bbaptist at iexposure.com
Internet Exposure, Inc.
http://www.iexposure.com
(612) 676-1946 x117

Providing Internet Services since 1995
Web Development ~ Search Engine Marketing ~ Web Analytics
Network Security ~ On Demand Tech Support ~ E-Mail Marketing


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Wed Jan 20 08:52:12 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:52:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] KDE 4.x
In-Reply-To: <4B570811.3010009@poetworld.net>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net> <4B56FE60.7030303@netscape.net>
	<4B570811.3010009@poetworld.net>
Message-ID: <4B57189C.6020601@netscape.net>

On 1/20/2010 7:41 AM, rhubarbpie at poetworld.net wrote:
>
> Thank you, I've not tried Slackware recently. And thank you for staying
> on topic.

Slackware 13 comes with KDE 4.2.4.  I don't really think your issue is 
distro related though.  I believe that it is really just KDE 4.*.

I was excited once upon a time when it was released, but to be honest I 
wasn't all that impressed.

I do use Slack 13 on several boxes, but I ripped out the KDE 4.2.4, and 
reinstalled 3.5.*.

Good Luck!

Bob


-- 
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude.
We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors.
You have our gratitude.
Those who oppose us will be sent to Detroit.


From larrymcmains at comcast.net  Wed Jan 20 09:56:07 2010
From: larrymcmains at comcast.net (Larry McMains)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:56:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
In-Reply-To: <4b55bdf0.0.1364.490286702@rrt.net>
References: <4b55bdf0.0.1364.490286702@rrt.net>
Message-ID: <4B572797.5070604@comcast.net>

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From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Wed Jan 20 10:11:06 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:11:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>	<429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>
	<429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B572B1A.5080308@soul-dev.com>

On 1/20/2010 1:23 AM, greg wm wrote:
>     How about 'strace -eopen alsamixer'. Is there anything alsamixer is
>     unable to load? Try as root too, you may be missing a user group. There
>     looks to be a bundle of information on the Ubuntu forums about this as
>     well so that may be a good read too.
>
>     Otherwise, make sure your system is up to date and running the latest
>     kernel (not sure what the Hardy roadmap looks like so I am unsure as to
>     what the lastest is, just run apt-get install dist-upgrade)
>
>
> yes i'm dist-upgrade already.  as root, works, bingo!  also works as the
> user created by the ubuntu installer.  but as any other user, not.  if i
> deprive that orig user of it's orig home directory content, then that
> user also fails to access sound.  but if i use the content of that orig
> home directory for another user (chown -R user.user), no help.  mimicing
> all the orig user entries in /etc/group and /etc/gshadow also no help.
> failure looks like
> $ audacious /g/radio.pls
> MADPlug-Message: failed to open audio output: XMMS reverse compatibility
> output plugin
> $  strace -eopen alsamixer
> open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 3
> open("/lib/libncurses.so.5", O_RDONLY)  = 3
> open("/usr/lib/libasound.so.2", O_RDONLY) = 3
> open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libm.so.6", O_RDONLY) = 3
> open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl.so.2", O_RDONLY) = 3
> open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY) = 3
> open("/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY) = 3
> open("/dev/urandom", O_RDONLY)          = 3
> open("/usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf", O_RDONLY) = 3
> open("/dev/snd/controlC0", O_RDONLY)    = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
> open("/dev/aloadC0", O_RDONLY)          = -1 ENOENT (No such file or
> directory)
>
> alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
> directory
> Process 18713 detached
> i suppose i'm about ready to punt and just chown all my stuff over to
> that orig installer user, but anybody got any suggestion how perhaps to
> get sound working for any other user?
>

I can also confirm that this behavious exists in Karmic, which is nice 
since I can help then ;-)

This is indeed a group issue, add your user to the audio group. This 
should solve your problems when creating new users.


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 10:21:34 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:21:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>
	<429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>
	<429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1001200821w3864aff4wd4099c3c8a1513cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:23 AM, greg wm <tclug1 at greatlakedata.com> wrote:

>
>> Otherwise, make sure your system is up to date and running the latest
>> kernel (not sure what the Hardy roadmap looks like so I am unsure as to
>> what the lastest is, just run apt-get install dist-upgrade)
>>
>
> yes i'm dist-upgrade already.  as root, works, bingo!  also works as the
> user created by the ubuntu installer.  but as any other user, not.
>

I see the issue was group memberships (from the mail after this one)

How did you create the user?  I'd expect there to be a way to create a user
in Ubuntu that would have covered details like "appropriate group
memberships"...

-Rob
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From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Wed Jan 20 10:42:01 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:42:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc1001200821w3864aff4wd4099c3c8a1513cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>	<429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>	<4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>	<429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc1001200821w3864aff4wd4099c3c8a1513cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B573259.3080507@soul-dev.com>

On 1/20/2010 10:21 AM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:23 AM, greg wm <tclug1 at greatlakedata.com
> <mailto:tclug1 at greatlakedata.com>> wrote:
>
>
>         Otherwise, make sure your system is up to date and running the
>         latest
>         kernel (not sure what the Hardy roadmap looks like so I am
>         unsure as to
>         what the lastest is, just run apt-get install dist-upgrade)
>
>
>     yes i'm dist-upgrade already.  as root, works, bingo!  also works as
>     the user created by the ubuntu installer.  but as any other user, not.
>
>
> I see the issue was group memberships (from the mail after this one)
>
> How did you create the user?  I'd expect there to be a way to create a
> user in Ubuntu that would have covered details like "appropriate group
> memberships"...
>
> -Rob

Nothing too fancy:

xbmc at mediabox:~$ sudo adduser test
Adding user `test' ...
Adding new group `test' (1002) ...
Adding new user `test' (1002) with group `test' ...
The home directory `/home/test' already exists.  Not copying from 
`/etc/skel'.
adduser: Warning: The home directory `/home/test' does not belong to the 
user you are currently creating.
Enter new UNIX password:
Retype new UNIX password:
passwd: password updated successfully
Changing the user information for test
Enter the new value, or press ENTER for the default
         Full Name []:
         Room Number []:
         Work Phone []:
         Home Phone []:
         Other []:
Is the information correct? [Y/n]
xbmc at mediabox:~$ sudo adduser test audio
Adding user `test' to group `audio' ...
Adding user test to group audio
Done.

I'm sure you could assign the group during using 'adduser' as well but I 
was lazy reading the man page ADDUSER(8).

You could check the gnome tools, but as far as I know they don't have a 
useradd utility.

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Wed Jan 20 10:48:43 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:48:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <cac10ddc1001200821w3864aff4wd4099c3c8a1513cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>	<429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>	<4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>	<429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc1001200821w3864aff4wd4099c3c8a1513cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5733EB.8030703@soul-dev.com>

On 1/20/2010 10:21 AM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:23 AM, greg wm <tclug1 at greatlakedata.com
> <mailto:tclug1 at greatlakedata.com>> wrote:
>
>
>         Otherwise, make sure your system is up to date and running the
>         latest
>         kernel (not sure what the Hardy roadmap looks like so I am
>         unsure as to
>         what the lastest is, just run apt-get install dist-upgrade)
>
>
>     yes i'm dist-upgrade already.  as root, works, bingo!  also works as
>     the user created by the ubuntu installer.  but as any other user, not.
>
>
> I see the issue was group memberships (from the mail after this one)
>
> How did you create the user?  I'd expect there to be a way to create a
> user in Ubuntu that would have covered details like "appropriate group
> memberships"...
I really don't think this would be possible, as the system would have to 
know which groups you want to grant a user access to. Heuristic 
development just isn't quite there yet, or at least not available to 
Ubuntu yet, keep an eye on Google chrome ;-) Tis the basic Skynet OS.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 11:55:34 2010
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:55:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pursuing hardy sound
In-Reply-To: <4B5733EB.8030703@soul-dev.com>
References: <429c5ec21001180736l6f4074bfi73d3c81e4c35e747@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B55CEA0.2090701@soul-dev.com>
	<429c5ec21001190958o3109118bt6c76662d13df6a23@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B560126.2020907@soul-dev.com>
	<429c5ec21001192323u145d45e9i61f69c32ac2daed4@mail.gmail.com>
	<cac10ddc1001200821w3864aff4wd4099c3c8a1513cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B5733EB.8030703@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <cac10ddc1001200955r3d619d22r2a2d688100ad41dc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Mr. MailingLists <
mailinglists at soul-dev.com> wrote:

> On 1/20/2010 10:21 AM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
> > I see the issue was group memberships (from the mail after this one)
> >
> > How did you create the user?  I'd expect there to be a way to create a
> > user in Ubuntu that would have covered details like "appropriate group
> > memberships"...
>


> I really don't think this would be possible, as the system would have to
> know which groups you want to grant a user access to. Heuristic
> development just isn't quite there yet, or at least not available to
> Ubuntu yet, keep an eye on Google chrome ;-) Tis the basic Skynet OS.
>

I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I can't confirm it.  Basically, certain
"types" of users would expect sound to work if they are using the computer.
When using Ubuntu's User Management GUI, you can specify a user as
"Administrator, Desktop User, or a guest.  I'm guessing if you create a test
user who with the "Desktop User Profile" they will be added to the audio
group.

I tried testing this theory, but the tool blew away my groups file (seems to
have been trying to write it at least) and I had to reboot into recovery
mode to restore the file.   I don't feel like testing that again.

-Rob
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From larrymcmains at comcast.net  Wed Jan 20 13:34:38 2010
From: larrymcmains at comcast.net (Larry McMains)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:34:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
In-Reply-To: <4B572797.5070604@comcast.net>
References: <4b55bdf0.0.1364.490286702@rrt.net> <4B572797.5070604@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B575ACE.3020306@comcast.net>

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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed Jan 20 14:02:32 2010
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:02:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Amarok (was "KDE 4.x")
In-Reply-To: <4B562B09.60409@soul-dev.com>
References: <4B563D37.408@poetworld.net>
	<4B56437F.7090404@gmail.com><alpine.DEB.2.00.1001192129340.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<4B562B09.60409@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <9C68C286C21743A08B829B8858485128@usicorp.usinternet.com>

Gnump3d works well for a standalone simple streaming server. It indexes your
files and just works. I think there is no more development on it anymore but
again it just works and is super easy and supports skinning.

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Mailinglists
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:59 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Amarok (was "KDE 4.x")

On 1/20/2010 4:40 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010, Ian Young wrote:
>
>    
>> I'm a Gnome user but have gotten pulled into it because I used and loved
>> Amarok 1.4, and am being railroaded into upgrading to Amarok 2 (by
>> Gentoo, of all distributions). There's some Reddit griping at
>>
<http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/84zux/who_else_feels_amarok2_is_a_hu
ge_dissapointment/>.
>> While it's from months ago, most of the complaints still feel completely
>> relevant.
>>      
>
> I started a new thread.  I've used Amarok just a little, but I'm thinking
> of spending some time on learning it better.  Before I do that, I'd like
> to hear what other people are thinking of it and what other solutions
> there are for managing large numbers of audio files.
>
> I'm especially interested in a client/server kind of system where the
> media files and Db can be stored on one machine but other machines can
> access Amarok on the remote machine and stream the audio.
>
> Mike
>
>    
Not a standalone application but I have been using Jinzora (web based 
app) which optionally stores index data in a *sql database. Also, this 
way your client installs are probably already done (http(s) streaming 
anyone?). Definitely not enterprise ready by any means but works great 
for my 120+ gigs of random MP3s. Seems to match your ideal description 
pretty well Mike.

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 14:10:09 2010
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
In-Reply-To: <4B575ACE.3020306@comcast.net>
References: <4b55bdf0.0.1364.490286702@rrt.net> <4B572797.5070604@comcast.net>
	<4B575ACE.3020306@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1001201409301.4343@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

For laughs:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers

"It's funny because it's true!"  --Homer Simpson


Mike


From bgilbertson at rrt.net  Wed Jan 20 15:57:08 2010
From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (bgilbertson at rrt.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:57:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
Message-ID: <4b577c34.15f.3067.144047790@rrt.net>

Larry,

If you are using cups (probably are) try in a web browser

http://localhost:631
admin
find new printers

and see if it shows up.  If it doesn't it may be on a
different network segment.

Bob

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Larry McMains <larrymcmains at comcast.net>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Installing Brother Printer Driver
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:56:07 -0600

> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Jan 21 09:58:07 2010
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:58:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing drivers via LiveCD??
Message-ID: <4B58798F.3010600@lctn.org>

I have a customer with a laptop that has died, but the sata hard drive 
is fine. We do not have another laptop with a sata controller at the 
moment. I am trying to get him back up and running as quickly as 
possible, and buy him sometime to pick up another laptop. Before the 
laptop died completely, I made an image of the drive and copied it to 
another sata drive. I then ran  sysprep on it, and popped it in a little 
mini-atx box. It boots up to a desktop, but does not have the drivers to 
see the USB ports (keyboard and mouse), or the nic. Is there a way to 
boot to a LIVECD, and copy the drivers to the Windows system folder, so 
on the next reboot it will see the hardware on the box?


From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Thu Jan 21 10:42:46 2010
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:42:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing drivers via LiveCD??
In-Reply-To: <4B58798F.3010600@lctn.org>
References: <4B58798F.3010600@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <4B588406.6090503@soul-dev.com>

On 1/21/2010 9:58 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
> I have a customer with a laptop that has died, but the sata hard drive
> is fine. We do not have another laptop with a sata controller at the
> moment. I am trying to get him back up and running as quickly as
> possible, and buy him sometime to pick up another laptop. Before the
> laptop died completely, I made an image of the drive and copied it to
> another sata drive. I then ran  sysprep on it, and popped it in a little
> mini-atx box. It boots up to a desktop, but does not have the drivers to
> see the USB ports (keyboard and mouse), or the nic. Is there a way to
> boot to a LIVECD, and copy the drivers to the Windows system folder, so
> on the next reboot it will see the hardware on the box?
>
This made me shudder. I'm not sure of an easy way to inject drivers into 
an offline image using Linux. You have a couple of options as I see it, 
hopefully others will chime in.

1) Run a soft reinstall of the MS OS.
2) http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc766141%28WS.10%29.aspx
3) You could try copying the INF file(s) for your drivers to 
%SystemRoot%\inf and the driver files (*.sys) to 
%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\* - You can do this from the LiveCD + 
Pendrive.
4) If possible, see if he is interested in Linux ;-)


-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments


From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 22:30:00 2010
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:30:00 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] Installing drivers via LiveCD??
In-Reply-To: <4B588406.6090503@soul-dev.com>
References: <4B58798F.3010600@lctn.org> <4B588406.6090503@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <2c6699da1001232030n109afdffm41977c701e77e736@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Mr. MailingLists
<mailinglists at soul-dev.com> wrote:

> This made me shudder. I'm not sure of an easy way to inject drivers into
> an offline image using Linux. You have a couple of options as I see it,
> hopefully others will chime in.

Generally what you need to do is extract out the chipset drivers
(Intel? AMD?  Via?), tear apart the .inf file(s) for where things are
supposed to go, and inject the files all while hoping for the best.
Oh, and whatever you do, make a backup because you'll either be
successful or prevent the Window$ install from ever booting again.

Sounds like your biggest obstacle is the keyboard, usually they
auto-detect pretty well.  Always give the OS ~10 minutes of runtime
before declaring the keyboard as unavailable.  I've seen even on
machines of identical hardware where they USB peripherals won't light
up right away.

You might have better luck with Windows PE, as you may be able to do a
true install of the driver without all the .inf hackery.  Just a guess
though.

In reality, you may be screwed, but with enough patience and hacking
it should be possible.  Oh, did I mention MAKE A BACKUP before you
begin?

Brian


From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 08:06:06 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:06:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Win7 compatible sound
Message-ID: <27e6356a1001250606h4274554arc24a6dda9c68caed@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
My onboard sound recently failed, and I decided it would be easier to
add a PCI card than to deal with a Taiwanese RMA department.  I may
have been wrong.  The catch is that I'm dual booting Ubuntu 9.10 and
Windows 7.
I started by trying a SB Live that I had sitting around, which worked
great in Ubuntu, but I was unable to find any drivers that would make
it work right in Win7.
I next looked for something a little newer for sale.  Found an Audigy
SE, which is said to work well under Linux and had fairly recent
drivers available for Win7.  It does work well under Linux (it was
working by the time the login window came up, no interaction from me)
but once again, no drivers that actually work for Win7, contrary to
what Creative's web site says.  Creative's tech support is useless.
"Try uninstalling your drivers and then reinstalling."  Yes, that
happened to be the first 5 things I did.  Creative is now dead to
me...I'm not putting up with their fast release cycle and poor drivers
any more.  I think I recall having this same issue a couple years ago
with Vista and that SB Live that was in my parts bin...
So I ask not because it is a Linux issue, but because I'm guessing
someone has been in a similar situation: Does anyone have first hand
experience with a PCI or PCI-e sound card that works well in both
Linux and Windows 7?  I ended up with the Audigy by cross referencing
Linux compatibility lists with Windows driver availability from the
manufacturer, and that got me nowhere, so I'm hoping I can get
somewhere with actual experience.
I don't want to break the bank, and I'm no audiophile, but I'm willing
to spend some money to get something that works well.
Thanks!
-- 
Justin Kremer


From kris.browne at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 08:59:41 2010
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:59:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Win7 compatible sound
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a1001250606h4274554arc24a6dda9c68caed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27e6356a1001250606h4274554arc24a6dda9c68caed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8255989d1001250659r861dbb7l7c0be8e31885525d@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps the blame lies not with Creative....

I'm willing to bet that before Vista, the same issue happened with XP. And
2000. And ME. Despite the fact that sound cards almost across the board work
nearly the same, as evidenced by the fact that the Linux drivers are so
robust on that front, somehow it's Creative's fault that the card doesn't
work right? If you asked Microsoft 10 years ago, they would have said that
the lack of drivers was not the Vendor's fault but the OS's fault, and that
it was proof positive how poor Linux quality really was. Hold them to the
same standard, and file the issue with MS instead. They have 1000x the
resources Creative does to make things work.

Kris Browne
kris.browne at gmail.com
612-353-6969
612-408-4431
http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

"the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have
to write." - Steve Jobs



On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 08:06, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello,
> My onboard sound recently failed, and I decided it would be easier to
> add a PCI card than to deal with a Taiwanese RMA department.  I may
> have been wrong.  The catch is that I'm dual booting Ubuntu 9.10 and
> Windows 7.
> I started by trying a SB Live that I had sitting around, which worked
> great in Ubuntu, but I was unable to find any drivers that would make
> it work right in Win7.
> I next looked for something a little newer for sale.  Found an Audigy
> SE, which is said to work well under Linux and had fairly recent
> drivers available for Win7.  It does work well under Linux (it was
> working by the time the login window came up, no interaction from me)
> but once again, no drivers that actually work for Win7, contrary to
> what Creative's web site says.  Creative's tech support is useless.
> "Try uninstalling your drivers and then reinstalling."  Yes, that
> happened to be the first 5 things I did.  Creative is now dead to
> me...I'm not putting up with their fast release cycle and poor drivers
> any more.  I think I recall having this same issue a couple years ago
> with Vista and that SB Live that was in my parts bin...
> So I ask not because it is a Linux issue, but because I'm guessing
> someone has been in a similar situation: Does anyone have first hand
> experience with a PCI or PCI-e sound card that works well in both
> Linux and Windows 7?  I ended up with the Audigy by cross referencing
> Linux compatibility lists with Windows driver availability from the
> manufacturer, and that got me nowhere, so I'm hoping I can get
> somewhere with actual experience.
> I don't want to break the bank, and I'm no audiophile, but I'm willing
> to spend some money to get something that works well.
> Thanks!
> --
> Justin Kremer
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 09:12:58 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:12:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Win7 compatible sound
In-Reply-To: <8255989d1001250659r861dbb7l7c0be8e31885525d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27e6356a1001250606h4274554arc24a6dda9c68caed@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8255989d1001250659r861dbb7l7c0be8e31885525d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1001250712x1ee6907awaf5275e28541ea93@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Kris Browne <kris.browne at gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps the blame lies not with Creative....

That really isn't helpful at all.
Microsoft does not list the Audigy card as a "supported device"
anywhere that I have found.  Creative DOES list Windows 7 as a
supported OS on their website, and provides drivers for this card.
With that in mind, I blame Creative for providing drivers that don't
work, but still claiming to support the OS.


From zzabnr at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 17:30:07 2010
From: zzabnr at gmail.com (bnr bnr)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:30:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Win7 compatible sound (Justin Kremer)
Message-ID: <8aa998961001251530r32913c7ag197be2d9d593edd9@mail.gmail.com>

I bet that the driver is not signed. If you have unsigned drivers
blocked they cannot be installed. It may be worth looking into before
you give up on the card.


From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 18:09:07 2010
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:09:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Win7 compatible sound (Justin Kremer)
In-Reply-To: <8aa998961001251530r32913c7ag197be2d9d593edd9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8aa998961001251530r32913c7ag197be2d9d593edd9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27e6356a1001251609h6b201acpe15ddef406196f0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 5:30 PM, bnr bnr <zzabnr at gmail.com> wrote:
> I bet that the driver is not signed. If you have unsigned drivers
> blocked they cannot be installed. It may be worth looking into before
> you give up on the card.

I did think of that, and unfortunately, that is not the case.  A
couple of the versions of drivers I tried were signed, so that is not
the problem.  At this point I'm not really interested in
troubleshooting that particular card in Windows because I've seen
similar issues with older Creative products on newer versions of
Windows before, and I have little hope of resolving the issue.  And it
seems wrong to ask a LUG for help getting something to work in
Windows!
Thanks for the idea, though.
On the upside, this issue has caused me to re-assess what I actually
NEED to use Windows for, and with a little bit of work, I may be able
to use Windows so rarely that I won't even care if sound works.  We'll
see how that works out.
- Justin


From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Mon Jan 25 19:16:01 2010
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:16:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Writing tiny code @PenguinsUnbound Linux Meeting
	Saturday Jan. 30th
Message-ID: <4B5E4251.9000403@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday January 30th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Join SigFLUP ( Thea DeSilva ) in a discussion on how to write tiny code. 
You'd be surprised by what you can actually do in less then 4kb.  We 
will talk about everything from packaging self-extracting programs to 
manually writing elf headers.

Hope you are going to be able to make it.

==>brian.


From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 20:51:19 2010
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:51:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Win7 compatible sound (Justin Kremer)
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a1001251609h6b201acpe15ddef406196f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8aa998961001251530r32913c7ag197be2d9d593edd9@mail.gmail.com>
	<27e6356a1001251609h6b201acpe15ddef406196f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cac45c241001251851o7effe928k341f5982dc6ddc77@mail.gmail.com>

If you find you do need windows for something you could run it under Virtual
Box.

My SB Audigy 2 card is working find under Windows 7. I don't recall if I had
to find drivers for it or not.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From adam.morris at redstargaming.net  Mon Jan 25 18:27:19 2010
From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:27:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux and Win7 compatible sound (Justin Kremer)
In-Reply-To: <27e6356a1001251609h6b201acpe15ddef406196f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8aa998961001251530r32913c7ag197be2d9d593edd9@mail.gmail.com>
	<27e6356a1001251609h6b201acpe15ddef406196f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B5E36E7.10808@redstargaming.net>

Microsoft really screwed over Creative, Turtle Beach, and M-AUDIO (the
three largest sound card manufacturers before Windows Vista's release)
by making it impossible to make the sound card talk with Windows on a
low level with the new and "improved" WSS, something they all did for
both performance, features, and to get around some nasty bugs with the
Windows Sound System. For the "SoundBlaster Live!", only a few versions
actually work and even then they usually have some bad clicking noises.
A lot of the older Creative Cards (as well as every Turtle Beach and
M-AUDIO cards, which are still unsupported in Win7) required some of the
extensions they could exploit which they no longer can. Creative has
done a pretty decent job in working around a lot of the issues, but none
of the older cards work "right". To my knowledge, the only Live! (not
counting the Audigy Live!) that works is the 24-bit internal, but I
think the 24-bit external might work too.

Do you need 5.1 surround? I dual-boot a Creative X-Fi Titanium and it
actually works pretty well. I don't get 5.1 surround in Linux, but all
I'm ever doing in Linux is listening to music, so it doesn't effect me
much. Other X-Fi cards have even more success than I've had with the
Titanium, and I think you can even get 5.1 surround with PCI X-Fi's
these days.

-Adam

On 1/25/2010 6:09 PM, Justin Kremer wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 5:30 PM, bnr bnr <zzabnr at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I bet that the driver is not signed. If you have unsigned drivers
>> blocked they cannot be installed. It may be worth looking into before
>> you give up on the card.
>>     
> I did think of that, and unfortunately, that is not the case.  A
> couple of the versions of drivers I tried were signed, so that is not
> the problem.  At this point I'm not really interested in
> troubleshooting that particular card in Windows because I've seen
> similar issues with older Creative products on newer versions of
> Windows before, and I have little hope of resolving the issue.  And it
> seems wrong to ask a LUG for help getting something to work in
> Windows!
> Thanks for the idea, though.
> On the upside, this issue has caused me to re-assess what I actually
> NEED to use Windows for, and with a little bit of work, I may be able
> to use Windows so rarely that I won't even care if sound works.  We'll
> see how that works out.
> - Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>   



From admin at lctn.org  Thu Jan 28 13:07:15 2010
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:07:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Microdia webcam install
Message-ID: <4B61E063.3090105@lctn.org>

I am able to get the following info off of my webcam, but so far have 
not gotten any apps to pick up on it. Any idea what, if anything can be 
done to get it working?

This is on Ubuntu Intrepid.

lsmod = videodev               41600  2 zc0301,sn9c102

lsusb -d 0c45:613c =

Bus 004 Device 005: ID 0c45:613c Microdia PC Camera (SN9C120)
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0x0c45 Microdia
  idProduct          0x613c PC Camera (SN9C120)
  bcdDevice            1.01
  iManufacturer           0
  iProduct                1
  iSerial                 0
  bNumConfigurations      1
  Configuration Descriptor:
    bLength                 9
    bDescriptorType         2
    wTotalLength          279
    bNumInterfaces          1


From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Jan 28 22:21:38 2010
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:21:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Writing tiny code @PenguinsUnbound Linux
 Meeting Jan. 30th
Message-ID: <4B626252.3050606@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday January 30th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Join SigFLUP ( Thea DeSilva ) in a discussion on how to write tiny code.
You'd be surprised by what you can actually do in less then 4kb.  We
will talk about everything from packaging self-extracting programs to
manually writing elf headers.

Hope you are going to be able to make it.

==>brian.


From briandg at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Jan 28 22:21:42 2010
From: briandg at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:21:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Writing tiny code @PenguinsUnbound Linux
 Meeting Jan. 30th
Message-ID: <4B626256.4040505@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday January 30th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Join SigFLUP ( Thea DeSilva ) in a discussion on how to write tiny code.
You'd be surprised by what you can actually do in less then 4kb.  We
will talk about everything from packaging self-extracting programs to
manually writing elf headers.

Hope you are going to be able to make it.

==>brian.


From mkebob1134 at netscape.net  Fri Jan 29 09:31:31 2010
From: mkebob1134 at netscape.net (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:31:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Funny Dilbert about LInux
Message-ID: <4B62FF53.60408@netscape.net>

http://www.grunners.com/dilbert_linux.jpg

Here is a funny Dilbert that makes ref to Linux from my desk calendar 
yesterday.

Enjoy.

Bob De Mars


From chrome at real-time.com  Fri Jan 29 20:21:16 2010
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:21:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Funny Dilbert about LInux
In-Reply-To: <4B62FF53.60408@netscape.net>;
	from mkebob1134@netscape.net on Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 09:31:31AM
	-0600
References: <4B62FF53.60408@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <20100129202116.A13011@real-time.com>

On 01/29 09:31 , Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> http://www.grunners.com/dilbert_linux.jpg
> 
> Here is a funny Dilbert that makes ref to Linux from my desk calendar 
> yesterday.

There's a kernel of truth to that. 
However good your product may be; if you can't convince anyone of it
(through your fault or theirs), it won't do much good. Look at what happened
with Plan 9 (the OS, not the movie).

The social divide between geeks and the population at large is a big part of
the problem. That topic is bigger than I want to get into this late at night
tho. 

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com


From hansonry at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 23:53:13 2010
From: hansonry at gmail.com (Ryan Hanson)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:53:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ray Stepping?
Message-ID: <4B666C49.3060501@gmail.com>

To the people who went to the penguins unbound thingy on Saturday.
I'm trying to figure out the other alternative to Ray Tracing that used 
stepping.

I tried searching for Ray Stepping but I didn't find anything.

Any help?

Thanks