From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 01:54:45 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 01:54:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <842278.51396.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <842278.51396.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Jun 2010, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > Now we have Linux as a de facto 2nd-generation Unix workstation. But it > has grown up in this PC world both hardware- and network-wise. Sure, > there are developer shops that use Linux exactly as the Unixae of old > were used, but for so many of us we're isolated "behind" some ISP, > simply replacing a Microsoft "home" or "business" computer with a 21 > century Unix box. I don't know about other people, but I access files remotely very often. I have a media server in my home. I use NFS, CIFS (Samba), SSHFS and HTTP all the time to access files on that server from other machines in the house, but also from outside the home, sometimes from my smart phone. I also use a server in my office, MSI supercomputers and a 120-core cluster we recently built. All of these machines have filesystems that are interconnected in various ways. I think a lot of GNU/Linux and BSD users have multiple boxes that share files to some degree. Mike From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jul 1 09:14:49 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:14:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <842278.51396.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>; from galanolwe@yahoo.com on Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 08:03:02PM -0700 References: <842278.51396.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> On 06/30 08:03 , Olwe Bottorff wrote: > The whole Unix plan was a seamless, peer-to-peer world of Unix workstations growing and expanding. Not really, networking was/is still a bit of a kludge onto Unix. Remember that networking wasn't a big deal until the late 70s, and Unix was well entrenched by that point. Almost everything else does it just as badly tho, so no one notices. Plan9 got it correct (on Plan9 even devices [including the CPU] on other workstations can be seamlessly treated like local files and the network socket handling is better I believe); but they didn't get the marketing correct and almost no one knows about it anymore. Hurd can do it as well, but they have a different marketing problem with the same result. > I'm not upset with Microsoft for the reasons most people are. I'm upset > with them because they totally warped the evolution of computing into this > crippled little "office/home" experience. I'm upset at them for that; but also for the way they destroyed e-mail netiquette by encouraging top-posting, not quoting correctly, and HTML mail. Not to mention how Outlook is such an adminstrative nightmare and has an *awful* UI; but everyone accepts it as normal because it's so common. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Jul 1 09:54:11 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:54:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> References: <842278.51396.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> Message-ID: I don't see what is so awful about the UI in Outlook. I have numerous issues of varying degrees of severity with Outlook but in general the UI is quite nice I think, it is very usable. Yes this email is composed by Outlook and there are third party tools to get around the quoting/reply differences between what some people like vs what others like (search for "quotefix"). I also don't see what is so bad about HTML mail in principal. Perhaps various composers/implementations would be better but the principal I think is very useful and effective and has made a lot of communication much easier (for good or ill) for more people using the internet. Using HTML email is a lot easier for people to communicate than plain. People are not interested in While I am a fan of flexible power of doing things low level (CLI vs fancy GUI stuff) email has evolved into a mainstream staple of internet communication and as such means popular vote wins which is the fancy email route. Everyone else who is appalled or refuses to accept this is a dying breed and will live on in many niches but will never be able overcome this "limitation" the rest of the world does not have with acceptance. Ranting and raving or even starting a serious movement will not likely ever amount to anything significant with regards to general preferences of the people or actual changes in the standardized use of email. In the last 5 or so years I have come to accept this as I used to be very dedicated to idea of keeping HTML out of email by default but saw it as futile to try and say people into using a less effective means of communication just because it was simpler and would allow me to continue to use either ancient clients or extremely basic mail clients often based on ancient mail clients. I have mixed feelings about the reply, quoting, top/bottom posting, etc debate. In general I am not strongly motivated to care too much to fight for one or another particular point of view. I use various email clients and usually just accept what the default behavior of the client I am using at the time if it is not adjustable. I don't consider this a serious factor to consider whether or not to use any particular mail client. To get back to the subjet of the OP.... I think there will be a place for a variety of methods of running computers for a long time to come and that perhaps eventually there will be a de facto winner but even that will eventually fork out into other variations perhaps coming back to older concepts yet again or else maybe we all get network jacks installed into our brains and we interface directly with other resources of the globalnet like a mix of skynet, the matrix, ghost in the shell and other cyber-ish type stories. It is an interesting philosophical and theoretical debate as to what is best and why though marketing will likely unevenly skew peoples ideals. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:15 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? I'm upset at them for that; but also for the way they destroyed e-mail netiquette by encouraging top-posting, not quoting correctly, and HTML mail. Not to mention how Outlook is such an adminstrative nightmare and has an *awful* UI; but everyone accepts it as normal because it's so common. From florin at iucha.net Thu Jul 1 10:47:11 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:47:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > I also don't see what is so bad about HTML mail in principal. .,,. ,;;*;;;;, .-'``;-');;. /' .-. /*;; .' \d \;; .;;;, / o ` \; ,__. ,;*;;;*;, \__, _.__,' \_.-') __)--.;;;;;*;;;;, `""`;;;\ /-')_) __) `\' ';;;;;; ;*;;; -') `)_) |\ | ;;;;*; ;;;;| `---` O | | ;;*;;; *;*;\| O / ;;;;;* ;;;;;/| .-------\ / ;*;;;;; ;;;*;/ \ | '. (`. ;;;*;;; ;;;;;'. ; | ) \ | ;;;;;; ,;*;;;;\/ |. / /` | ';;;*; ;;;;;;/ |/ / /__/ ';;; '*;;*/ | / | ;*; `""""` `""""` ;' In principle, I don't see what's wrong with ponies in e-mail, as well. > Perhaps > various composers/implementations would be better but the principal I think > is very useful and effective and has made a lot of communication much easier > (for good or ill) for more people using the internet. Why? > Using HTML email is a > lot easier for people to communicate than plain. How? > People are not interested > in References? Or at least do you have a compelling argument on why it works for you? I have asked last month for real-world examples on how HTML e-mail is helping people get the job done, have fun, whatever... And I got no positive answers. I'm still waiting. I'm genuinely curious. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/3a60d195/attachment.pgp From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Jul 1 10:54:07 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:54:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Florin Iucha wrote: > I have asked last month for real-world examples on how HTML e-mail is helping > people get the job done, have fun, whatever... And I got no positive answers. I really /hate/ to provide a pro-html-in-email example, but there have been times at work (where I know for a fact that everyone is using the same (terrible) email system that fully supports HTML/RTF) where including warnings in BIG GIANT RED LETTERS was an INVLAUABLE aid to successful communication. -Yaron -- From justin.kremer at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 11:14:19 2010 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:14:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Yaron wrote: > I really /hate/ to provide a pro-html-in-email example, but there have > been times at work (where I know for a fact that everyone is using the > same (terrible) email system that fully supports HTML/RTF) where including > warnings in BIG GIANT RED LETTERS was an INVLAUABLE aid to successful > communication. Where I work, that is less successful at getting the intended point across, and more successful at getting you mocked behind your back...or sometimes even to your face. - Justin From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Jul 1 11:22:49 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:22:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Justin Kremer wrote: > Where I work, that is less successful at getting the intended point > across, and more successful at getting you mocked behind your > back...or sometimes even to your face. *laughs* hey, don't think for a SECOND that I didn't feel dirty, and that I didn't take several days to justify it to myself. You have to realise that the target audience is people who compose entire emails in comic-sans. -Yaron -- From ecrist at secure-computing.net Thu Jul 1 11:48:56 2010 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:48:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4F44575A-79CD-4080-8D0A-58E6D28DEADC@secure-computing.net> On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:47:11, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: >> I also don't see what is so bad about HTML mail in principal. > > .,,. > ,;;*;;;;, > .-'``;-');;. > /' .-. /*;; > .' \d \;; .;;;, > / o ` \; ,__. ,;*;;;*;, > \__, _.__,' \_.-') __)--.;;;;;*;;;;, > `""`;;;\ /-')_) __) `\' ';;;;;; > ;*;;; -') `)_) |\ | ;;;;*; > ;;;;| `---` O | | ;;*;;; > *;*;\| O / ;;;;;* > ;;;;;/| .-------\ / ;*;;;;; > ;;;*;/ \ | '. (`. ;;;*;;; > ;;;;;'. ; | ) \ | ;;;;;; > ,;*;;;;\/ |. / /` | ';;;*; > ;;;;;;/ |/ / /__/ ';;; > '*;;*/ | / | ;*; > `""""` `""""` ;' > > In principle, I don't see what's wrong with ponies in e-mail, as well. > > >> Perhaps >> various composers/implementations would be better but the principal I think >> is very useful and effective and has made a lot of communication much easier >> (for good or ill) for more people using the internet. > > Why? > >> Using HTML email is a >> lot easier for people to communicate than plain. > > How? > >> People are not interested >> in > > References? > > Or at least do you have a compelling argument on why it works for you? > > I have asked last month for real-world examples on how HTML e-mail is helping > people get the job done, have fun, whatever... And I got no positive answers. > > I'm still waiting. I'm genuinely curious. > > Cheers, > florin I'm a proponent for plain-text, fixed-width fonts in email, but we have many users who refuse to use such things, specifically a fixed-width font. Our solution for things like tables in email is to do one of a couple things: 1) Send the email as a plain-text fixed-width format. This works well for clients that are configured properly. 2) Provide an HTML version that builds a table and displays the same data. 3) Provide an CSV to display the data the user can open in any spread-sheet program. IMHO, it would be easier if users would just use the plain-text, fixed width configuration by default. This is much easier to generate. --- Eric Crist From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jul 1 12:21:30 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:21:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] iostat dosage information Message-ID: <20100701122130.G31197@real-time.com> I never knew that there were recommeded dosage levels for use of the 'iostat' tool, but apparently there are. http://www.prescriptiondrug-info.com/drugs/iostat.asp It's on the intarwebz so it must be true! -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Jul 1 12:54:09 2010 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 12:54:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4C2CD641.2010604@beer.tclug.org> On 07/01/2010 11:22 AM, Yaron wrote: > On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Justin Kremer wrote: > >> Where I work, that is less successful at getting the intended point >> across, and more successful at getting you mocked behind your >> back...or sometimes even to your face. > > *laughs* hey, don't think for a SECOND that I didn't feel dirty, and that > I didn't take several days to justify it to myself. You have to realise > that the target audience is people who compose entire emails in > comic-sans. And there you made a counterpoint, vindicating yourself. I made this a few months ago, just because I'm a jerk: http://beer.tclug.org/tweet/ Jima From nesius at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 13:46:49 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:46:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > > I also don't see what is so bad about HTML mail in principal. > > .,,. > ,;;*;;;;, > .-'``;-');;. > /' .-. /*;; > .' \d \;; .;;;, > / o ` \; ,__. ,;*;;;*;, > \__, _.__,' \_.-') __)--.;;;;;*;;;;, > `""`;;;\ /-')_) __) `\' ';;;;;; > ;*;;; -') `)_) |\ | ;;;;*; > ;;;;| `---` O | | ;;*;;; > *;*;\| O / ;;;;;* > ;;;;;/| .-------\ / ;*;;;;; > ;;;*;/ \ | '. (`. ;;;*;;; > ;;;;;'. ; | ) \ | ;;;;;; > ,;*;;;;\/ |. / /` | ';;;*; > ;;;;;;/ |/ / /__/ ';;; > '*;;*/ | / | ;*; > `""""` `""""` ;' > > In principle, I don't see what's wrong with ponies in e-mail, as well. > I fully support and endorse ponies in email. Please include more of them. > > > > Using HTML email > is a > > lot easier for people to communicate than plain. > > How? > Proof by contradiction: Let it be easier to communicate in plain text than HTML. Then everyone would want to communicate in plain text at all times. Not all books or emails or newspapers are written in plain text. In fact most aren't. Therefore plain text is not easier. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/fe20fc2d/attachment.htm From john.meier at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 14:15:28 2010 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:15:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Yaron wrote: > > On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > I have asked last month for real-world examples on how HTML e-mail is helping > > people get the job done, have fun, whatever... ?And I got no positive answers. > > I really /hate/ to provide a pro-html-in-email example, but there have > been times at work (where I know for a fact that everyone is using the > same (terrible) email system that fully supports HTML/RTF) where including > warnings in BIG GIANT RED LETTERS was an INVLAUABLE aid to successful > communication. > > > -Yaron > I?second?this point. BIG,BOLD,and Italics. It's a nice CYA too. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Thu Jul 1 14:32:46 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:32:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20100701193246.GC4165@iris.iucha.org> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 01:46:49PM -0500, Robert Nesius wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > > > I also don't see what is so bad about HTML mail in principal. > > > > .,,. > > ,;;*;;;;, > > .-'``;-');;. > > /' .-. /*;; > > .' \d \;; .;;;, > > / o ` \; ,__. ,;*;;;*;, > > \__, _.__,' \_.-') __)--.;;;;;*;;;;, > > `""`;;;\ /-')_) __) `\' ';;;;;; > > ;*;;; -') `)_) |\ | ;;;;*; > > ;;;;| `---` O | | ;;*;;; > > *;*;\| O / ;;;;;* > > ;;;;;/| .-------\ / ;*;;;;; > > ;;;*;/ \ | '. (`. ;;;*;;; > > ;;;;;'. ; | ) \ | ;;;;;; > > ,;*;;;;\/ |. / /` | ';;;*; > > ;;;;;;/ |/ / /__/ ';;; > > '*;;*/ | / | ;*; > > `""""` `""""` ;' > > > > In principle, I don't see what's wrong with ponies in e-mail, as well. > > I fully support and endorse ponies in email. Please include more of them. Good. I'll keep him in! > > > Using HTML email > > is a > > > lot easier for people to communicate than plain. > > > Proof by contradiction: > Let it be easier to communicate in plain text than HTML. > Then everyone would want to communicate in plain text at all times. > Not all books or emails or newspapers are written in plain text. > In fact most aren't. > Therefore plain text is not easier. And people wear make-up and spend hours dressing up and combing their hair because it is easier than throwing on a sack? Pretty is one thing, art is another. I was asking for functional differences that _improve_ communications. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/a95530f6/attachment.pgp From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Jul 1 15:20:57 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:20:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: >> I also don't see what is so bad about HTML mail in principal. > > .,,. > ,;;*;;;;, > .-'``;-');;. > /' .-. /*;; > .' \d \;; .;;;, > / o ` \; ,__. ,;*;;;*;, > \__, _.__,' \_.-') __)--.;;;;;*;;;;, > `""`;;;\ /-')_) __) `\' ';;;;;; > ;*;;; -') `)_) |\ | ;;;;*; > ;;;;| `---` O | | ;;*;;; > *;*;\| O / ;;;;;* > ;;;;;/| .-------\ / ;*;;;;; > ;;;*;/ \ | '. (`. ;;;*;;; > ;;;;;'. ; | ) \ | ;;;;;; > ,;*;;;;\/ |. / /` | ';;;*; > ;;;;;;/ |/ / /__/ ';;; > '*;;*/ | / | ;*; > `""""` `""""` ;' > > In principle, I don't see what's wrong with ponies in e-mail, as well. > > >> >> Perhaps various composers/implementations would be better but the >> principal I think is very useful and effective and has made a lot of >> communication much easier (for good or ill) for more people using >> the internet. > > Why? Formatting. It can be much easier to convey information in a way that is more easily understood by the recipient. > >> Using HTML >> email is a lot easier for people to communicate than plain. > > How? There are column limitations, there are formatting limitations (or nearly a complete lack of formatting), embedding images and other media, etc. > >> People are not >> interested in > > References? Apparently my train of thought was never completed here... And now I don't recall it anymore. > > Or at least do you have a compelling argument on why it works for you? > > I have asked last month for real-world examples on how HTML e-mail is > helping people get the job done, have fun, whatever... And I got no > positive answers. > > I'm still waiting. I'm genuinely curious. > > Cheers, > florin Things or sections can be more catchy or certain aspects of a message can be more stressed in a particular way. Embedding media is significant like images, long lines, color coding/highlighting, variable font sizes. A large blob of text can be hard to read but a few words or sentences with some bright colors, images, etc can be noteworthy and get thru a lot more meaningfully. If you really want to empahsize a "...we have to DO this..." and "...we have to NOT DO this..." would be a lot more effective if there was some colors, bold font, etc. Or if you have a series of images that you want to comment on each one at a time it makes it a lot easier to embed in message with comments above/below each vs attached images then each image has to be opened one at a time and corresponding comments need to be associated correctly or else an image editor used to embed comments directly onto the images which is stupid and makes it impossible to do a text search then. Advertisers jobs are much easier if they can include HTML in their email. E-cards. E-Coupons. You can make messages more crisp and official and have their own flavor and style vs having your messages look exactly like everyone elses in the world (unless a thriving ascii pony art community were to blossom) but even still its not the same. I am big fan of fixwidth fonts but you use that in HTML and still get other benefits of non-plain-text based emails. Basically many/all the reasons we use word processors and other fancy docoument editors for our documents instead of notepad/pico like editors also apply to email. Sometimes plaintext is best overall. Sometimes not. One more, URL embedding. Let's say you have one or more lengthy URLs to include. You can make a short bit of text or an image be a link to the URL or you can just spew out the entire URL in all its glory for something like Check out this cool map easter egg of Minnesota State and Lake Superior VS http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=110+Union+Street+Southeast, +Minneapolis,+MN+55455-0153+(University+of+Minnesota)&daddr=44.952368,+-93.1 03092&hl=en&geocode=CSkjttoYDj3dFe9ErgIdYWNx-iGbU9lxb_d-9Cl9u4KnFy2zUjGKAeM0 yc-MWw%3B&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=44.965241,-93.170034&sspn=0.048765,0.14308&ie=UT F8&ll=44.952353,-93.103042&spn=0.001524,0.004471&t=h&z=19 From galanolwe at yahoo.com Thu Jul 1 15:53:58 2010 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? Message-ID: <901740.85188.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I think the whole computer thing is heading toward some sort of Borgland. A few years back I was talking (to whoever would listen) about a highly networked economy and how it might look and could it get away from capital and "just do it." This was after my time in East Germany during the fall of the Wall. There I ran into a group of people who worked for the old East German Ministry of Economics. We started by talking about all the cloak-and-dagger stuff vis-a-vis computers, how they had pilfered IBM technology and reverse-engineered themselves IBM mainframes. They said IBM even came over secretly and toured their facilities. This led to how they basically ran the economy as a great big input-output matrix (Leontief), and that if they had had some really good distributed, networked computing, they could have made a serious go of it. Hard to imagine, but it would be one of history's wilder ironies that East German socialism running on Linux/cheap Intel might have been the first real JIT, input-output, zero capital, cloud economy. Anyway, yes, some sort of cloud will eventually settle in over the world. Personally, I'm interested in the intersection of functional programming with virtual machines, a la Scala, a la Clojure, two functional languages on the JVM. That's getting pretty cloudy. OGM,MN --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Justin Krejci wrote: To get back to the subjet of the OP.... I think there will be a place for a variety of methods of running computers for a long time to come and that perhaps eventually there will be a de facto winner but even that will eventually fork out into other variations perhaps coming back to older concepts yet again or else maybe we all get network jacks installed into our brains and we interface directly with other resources of the globalnet like a mix of skynet, the matrix, ghost in the shell and other cyber-ish type stories. It is an interesting philosophical and theoretical debate as to what is best and why though marketing will likely unevenly skew peoples ideals. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/aeea954a/attachment-0001.htm From galanolwe at yahoo.com Thu Jul 1 16:14:28 2010 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: <901740.85188.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I've got friends (really) -- who want to use an old box as a router/firewall/file server at the business. I told them Linux can do this -- all-in-one. But I've never been a serious admin type. Am I right that one box with Linux can do these things? They have a modem from their ISP patched into a Netgear Web Safe Router (RP614v3) and four Win boxes (2XP, Vista, Win7) plugged into the router. Could this router be deactivated and used as just a hub? Would file serving be done by Samba? OGM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/f5cb8d95/attachment.htm From rclarksean at arvig.net Thu Jul 1 16:31:39 2010 From: rclarksean at arvig.net (Randy Clarksean) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:31:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <901740.85188.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <012b01cb1964$caf4b590$60de20b0$@net> Sure . you can do all of that without a lot of trouble. Everyone on here will have some sort of recommendation, but you can easily do it with just about any old box . just make sure the power supply is good with a decent hard drive and they are good to go. I basically have + Centos 4 or 5 on a cheap refurbished HP box + use Firestarter software for the firewall because it has a gui and I got tired of writing commands for IPTables + there are easy settings in firestarter (and I am sure there are many more good firewall products out there) to set the basics . allow all outgoing, deny incoming, etc. + adding samba is a possibility, but I do not do that as I store on something else behind the firewall + I have DSL and feed directly from their system into my NIC for the outside world + I use a second NIC and a gigabit router for anything inside to connect up through Cheap, safe, simple, reliable. Randy From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Olwe Bottorff Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 4:14 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? I've got friends (really) -- who want to use an old box as a router/firewall/file server at the business. I told them Linux can do this -- all-in-one. But I've never been a serious admin type. Am I right that one box with Linux can do these things? They have a modem from their ISP patched into a Netgear Web Safe Router (RP614v3) and four Win boxes (2XP, Vista, Win7) plugged into the router. Could this router be deactivated and used as just a hub? Would file serving be done by Samba? O GM,MN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/d3ff74d1/attachment.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 16:35:21 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:35:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <842278.51396.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Justin Krejci wrote: > I also don't see what is so bad about HTML mail in principal. I like the principal, but the practice has sometimes been terrible. It could be a simple way of marking up text, but in the hands of Microsoft, a small simple message with no markup (like this one) can be expanded into something hundreds of lines long. I'm not kidding. I'm not sure why they do it. A guy just sent me something the other day that was 3 KB as plain text but the HTML attachment -- merely repeating exactly the same information -- was literally more than 1,000 lines long. My theory is that Microsoft wants to create messages that don't look right in non-Microsoft MUAs. They try to complicate their HTML to achieve this goal, thereby making absurdly large messages. If successful, people will think "my email only looks right if I read it in a Microsoft email client," so they'll use one and they will send the ugly messages that no one can read without Microsoftware. Microsoft will get a stranglehold on the market. People don't know how to tell what program was used to send them an ugly message, they just know that it doesn't look right. Mike From swaite at sbn-services.com Thu Jul 1 16:32:56 2010 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 16:32:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? Message-ID: <1278019976.4c2d098840261@g3.sbn-services.com> Take a look at ClearOS (www.clearfoundation.com) [1] Very easy to setup using a web interface. Includes Samba, Mysql, HTTP, FTP, Mail server, Web proxy, content filter, IDS, etc. You can have either simple file sharing, or have this as a domain controller. Also, they have a thing called Flexshares, where you set up the share through the interface and you can configure access via multiple ways (i.e. access the share via the web). At Thursday, 01-07-2010 on 16:14 Olwe Bottorff wrote: I've got friends (really) -- who want to use an old box as a router/firewall/file server at the business. I told them Linux can do this -- all-in-one. But I've never been a serious admin type. Am I right that one box with Linux can do these things? They have a modem from their ISP patched into a Netgear Web Safe Router (RP614v3) and four Win boxes (2XP, Vista, Win7) plugged into the router. Could this router be deactivated and used as just a hub? Would file serving be done by Samba? O GM,MN Links: ------ [1] http://www.clearfoundation.com/Software/overview.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/6c0c603f/attachment.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 16:41:23 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:41:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Florin Iucha wrote: > I have asked last month for real-world examples on how HTML e-mail is > helping people get the job done, have fun, whatever... And I got no > positive answers. I *never* use HTML mail, but it is easy to see how it can be a good thing. Suppose I want to send a message that includes three figures (maybe graphs of some data I'm working with) along with captions and text. Apparently, that can be done with ordinary HTML mail. I have other ways of doing that kind of thing, ways that I prefer (like making a web site and directing people to it), but that isn't all that bad of a way to go. It could be fully FOSS. I'd usually rather receive that kind of message than a Microsoft Word attachment. Mike From nesius at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 16:46:26 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:46:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 2:15 PM, John Meier wrote: > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Yaron wrote: > > > > On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > > > I have asked last month for real-world examples on how HTML e-mail is > helping > > > people get the job done, have fun, whatever... And I got no positive > answers. > > > > I really /hate/ to provide a pro-html-in-email example, but there have > > been times at work (where I know for a fact that everyone is using the > > same (terrible) email system that fully supports HTML/RTF) where > including > > warnings in BIG GIANT RED LETTERS was an INVLAUABLE aid to successful > > communication. > > > > > > -Yaron > > > > I second this point. BIG,BOLD,and Italics. It's a nice CYA too. > Like the email at the 4:05 mark? :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N38a5ja26xY&feature=related (Um, use headphones and a private screen if you're at work). -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100701/943a15d3/attachment-0001.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 16:48:29 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:48:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: > Let it be easier to communicate in plain text than HTML. > Then everyone would want to communicate in plain text at all times. > Not all books or emails or newspapers are written in plain text. > In fact most aren't. > Therefore plain text is not easier. I think that a very long message would be easier to read if set in an appropriate font, using italic or bold or headers when needed. This is a good point, I think: We don't write books in Courier or Mono. But again, I don't do that. If I have a really long thing, I'll do something else with it, probably PDF. I also don't read HTML, not really. I use Alpine and if someone made some word big and red, I won't see it. I usually don't care. I occasionally send the HTML attachment to Firefox from Alpine (just a click away) and read it in Firefox, but not often. Mike From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Jul 1 17:00:03 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 17:00:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <842278.51396.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com><20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> Message-ID: Mike Miller wrote: > > My theory is that Microsoft wants to create messages that don't look > right in non-Microsoft MUAs. They try to complicate their HTML to > achieve this goal, thereby making absurdly large messages. If > successful, people will think "my email only looks right if I read it > in a Microsoft email client," so they'll use one and they will send > the ugly messages that no one can read without Microsoftware. > Microsoft will get a stranglehold on the market. > That is one conspiracy. I like the notion that maybe they use bloat injectors in the form of a digital turkey baster on their code and thru a neurotic dysfunction they make their apps that generates content also do the same thing like in Outlook HTML content. Dev1: Why are we including bloatinjector.dll to outlook.exe again? Dev2: What? What are you talking about? bloatinjector.dll is the lifeblood of our code. Keep coding. Imagine if something came from microsoft that was small in digital footprint. Wouldn't you immediately suspect something was wrong? Maybe a virus? Maybe a scam? How could this word document possibly be 2KB in size? Saving a completely empty document is about 24 KB! From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Jul 1 20:30:29 2010 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 01:30:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1041732049.39520.1278034229016.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Out of curiosity.... I researched Linux firewalls a few months ago. Personally, I've been using Smoothwall for the last 9 years. Here is what I found: Astaro http://www.astaro.com/ ClearOS (formerly named ClarkConnect) http://www.clearfoundation.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClearOS eBox http://www.ebox-platform.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBox ipFire http://www.ipfire.org/en/index SME Server http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=smeserver http://wiki.contribs.org/Main_Page Smoothwall http://www.smoothwall.org/ ZeroShell http://www.zeroshell.net/eng/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeroshell ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Olwe Bottorff" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2010 4:14:28 PM Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? I've got friends (really) -- who want to use an old box as a router/firewall/file server at the business. I told them Linux can do this -- all-in-one. But I've never been a serious admin type. Am I right that one box with Linux can do these things? They have a modem from their ISP patched into a Netgear Web Safe Router (RP614v3) and four Win boxes (2XP, Vista, Win7) plugged into the router. Could this router be deactivated and used as just a hub? Would file serving be done by Samba? O GM,MN _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 22:43:44 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 22:43:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <901740.85188.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > I've got friends (really) -- who want to use an old box as a router/firewall/file server at the business. I told them Linux can do this -- all-in-one. But I've never been a serious admin type. Am I right that one box with Linux can do these things? "Can" and "should" are two different things. Personally, I think the firewall/router should do those functions, and those functions only. I'd reccommend separate boxes for security and admin reasons. > They have a modem from their ISP patched into a Netgear Web Safe Router (RP614v3) and four Win boxes (2XP, Vista, Win7) plugged into the router. Could this router be deactivated and used as just a hub? Would file serving be done by Samba? You can probably disable the DHCP server and router and just use the onboard switch. Then again, why not keep using the firewall / router as is and build the linux box for filesharing only? Software wise, I like OpenWRT or IPcop for firewalling, and Openfiler for file sharing. Brian From iipreca at hotmail.com Fri Jul 2 00:03:41 2010 From: iipreca at hotmail.com (J Georgius) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 00:03:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <901740.85188.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>, <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been using m0n0wall (firewall) for years and use FreeNAS for file sharing (seperate machines)...might not be quite as intuitive as some of the other gui's but its solid. JG http://m0n0.ch/ http://freenas.org/ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:14:28 -0700 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? I've got friends (really) -- who want to use an old box as a router/firewall/file server at the business. I told them Linux can do this -- all-in-one. But I've never been a serious admin type. Am I right that one box with Linux can do these things? They have a modem from their ISP patched into a Netgear Web Safe Router (RP614v3) and four Win boxes (2XP, Vista, Win7) plugged into the router. Could this router be deactivated and used as just a hub? Would file serving be done by Samba? OGM,MN _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/b3ac3370/attachment.htm From ubusum at ymail.com Fri Jul 2 04:49:59 2010 From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 02:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. Message-ID: <195898.9343.qm@web59404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> 1. Seeking advice on whether to return a new router as defective during the return period, or the cause of dropouts. Hate to mail it back to Newegg, but should if there's something wrong with it. It's a Linksys wrt54gl. Experiencing brief dropouts of less than a minute a many times a day and maybe a few dropouts in two weeks that were quite bothersome. The laptop I'm using works without dropouts elsewhere on other networks. Security is set to wpa-psk, tkip with no ssid broadcasting. No neighbors conflict with my channel. 2. Dealing with a 5-year old UPS with a fading battery. Battery replacement is more than we paid for the unit ($80) and doesn't seem worth it. I've considered opening it up and disconnecting the low battery beeper and running it for short term voltage drops as all the computer hardware has really worked well without issue these years. Or, I might get a new lead battery (requires two actually). Would appreciate your thoughts as to whether this has done anything to protect our system, or if it's just one of those add ons salesmen get you to buy. I didn't connect the UPS to the computer for monitoring, so I don't really know what it did. This is on the Roseville area grid. Thanks, Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/a03e7a90/attachment.htm From jus at krytosvirus.com Fri Jul 2 07:10:19 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 07:10:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <195898.9343.qm@web59404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <195898.9343.qm@web59404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <595e6707ff9bc38fe8bfde0811620632.squirrel@usi-mail06-mtka.usinternet.com> > 1. Seeking advice on whether to return a new router as defective during > the return period, or the cause of dropouts. Hate to mail it back to > Newegg, but should if there's something wrong with it. > > It's a Linksys wrt54gl. > > Experiencing brief dropouts of less than a minute a many times a day and > maybe a few dropouts in two weeks that were quite bothersome. The laptop > I'm using works without dropouts elsewhere on other networks. > > Security is set to wpa-psk, tkip with no ssid broadcasting. No neighbors > conflict with my channel. Can you elaborate on what a "drop out" means? Does your laptop become unassociated, not receive any traffic from the AP, have you tried enabling broadcast of your SSID and checking to see if it is visible during these times? > > 2. Dealing with a 5-year old UPS with a fading battery. Battery > replacement is more than we paid for the unit ($80) and doesn't seem worth > it. I've considered opening it up and disconnecting the low battery beeper > and running it for short term voltage drops as all the computer hardware > has really worked well without issue these years. Or, I might get a new > lead battery (requires two actually). Would appreciate your thoughts as to > whether this has done anything to protect our system, or if it's just one > of those add ons salesmen get you to buy. I didn't connect the UPS to the > computer for monitoring, so I don't really know what it did. This is on > the Roseville area grid. > Besides providing power during an outage they can also provide normalized and cleaned power hiding spikes, noise, frequency changes, etc of the main utility feed which in my experience has helped the longeivity of PC power supplies and other small electronics. From galanolwe at yahoo.com Fri Jul 2 08:31:46 2010 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 06:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <129952.62944.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Brian Wall wrote: From: Brian Wall > They have a modem from their ISP patched into a Netgear Web Safe Router (RP614v3) and four Win boxes (2XP, Vista, Win7) plugged into the router. Could this router be deactivated and used as just a hub? Would file serving be done by Samba? You can probably disable the DHCP server and router and just use the onboard switch.? Then again, why not keep using the firewall / router as is and build the linux box for filesharing only? The router has 4 ports and the new Linux box would be five. Can I get a cheap switch/hub to extend the router? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/4766006d/attachment-0001.htm From justin.kremer at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 08:39:36 2010 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 08:39:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: References: <901740.85188.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <230064.88730.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:03 AM, J Georgius wrote: > > I have been using m0n0wall (firewall) for years and use FreeNAS for file sharing (seperate machines)...might not be quite as intuitive as some of the other gui's but its solid. JG > > http://m0n0.ch/ > http://freenas.org/ I am inclined to agree with Brian's sentiment that the file server should be separated from the firewall, if possible. If someone happens to target you and gains control of your firewall, why give them all your data, too? I have used both of these. It has been a while since I have done anything with FreeNAS, but I have used m0n0wall at work quite a bit. Functionally, the only thing I don't like about m0n0wall is that it doesn't have a caching proxy because my purpose has been to install Windows updates on dozens of systems simultaneously. Squid saves a lot of time and bandwidth for other things. I think it is worth noting, though, that m0n0wall and FreeNAS don't technically fit the bill, as they are based on FreeBSD, not linux. I don't think that should disqualify them, but it is a valid note. - Justin From justin.kremer at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 08:43:33 2010 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 08:43:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: <129952.62944.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <129952.62944.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > The router has 4 ports and the new Linux box would be five. Can I get a cheap switch/hub to extend the router? Yes. Also consider the speed of network connections. Gig-e is very cheap these days, but that router is 10/100. If you get a gig-e switch, and the file server also has that, you may want to plug everything into that switch rather than directly into the router. - Justin From galanolwe at yahoo.com Fri Jul 2 09:19:20 2010 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 07:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: References: <129952.62944.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <900652.28945.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Are you saying plug a giga-e switch into a 10/100 router port, then run all the boxes through the switch? The Linux box is an older machine. It's net card is definitely not giga-e. ________________________________ From: Justin Kremer To: TCLUG Mailing List Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 8:43:33 AM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > The router has 4 ports and the new Linux box would be five. Can I get a cheap switch/hub to extend the router? Yes. Also consider the speed of network connections. Gig-e is very cheap these days, but that router is 10/100. If you get a gig-e switch, and the file server also has that, you may want to plug everything into that switch rather than directly into the router. - Justin _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nesius at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 09:37:32 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:37:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file manager? In-Reply-To: <900652.28945.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <129952.62944.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <900652.28945.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > Are you saying plug a giga-e switch into a 10/100 router port, then run all > the boxes through the switch? The Linux box is an older machine. It's net > card is definitely not giga-e. > Yes - that's what he's saying. That would enable your machines to talk amongst each other without being throttled by the router's smaller through-put. But as you noted you need giga-e interfaces across the board. Keep in mind the aggregate through-put of a switch is not the sum of its ports multiplied by the bandwidth per port. A gig-e switch with 5-ports will probably only support 2gb total throughput (like the netgear pro-line), if that. On the other hand, 99.999% of home networks probably don't care about that. :) I guess I'm just being pedantic. -Rob > > > > ________________________________ > From: Justin Kremer > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Sent: Fri, July 2, 2010 8:43:33 AM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Advice on using Linux box as router/firewall/file > manager? > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > The router has 4 ports and the new Linux box would be five. Can I get a > cheap switch/hub to extend the router? > > Yes. Also consider the speed of network connections. Gig-e is very > cheap these days, but that router is 10/100. If you get a gig-e > switch, and the file server also has that, you may want to plug > everything into that switch rather than directly into the router. > - Justin > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/c74de3cf/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 09:47:45 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:47:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <195898.9343.qm@web59404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <195898.9343.qm@web59404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Ubu Sumner wrote: > 1. Seeking advice on whether to return a new router as defective during the > return period, or the cause of dropouts. Hate to mail it back to Newegg, but > should if there's something wrong with it. > > It's a Linksys wrt54gl. > > > Which distro are you running on it? There are many to choose from - maybe one of the others will work better? I had rock-solid stability with DDWRT. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/05619fde/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 10:05:10 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 10:05:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100701193246.GC4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> <20100701193246.GC4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 01:46:49PM -0500, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > > > > Using HTML > email > > > is a > > > > lot easier for people to communicate than plain. > > > > > Proof by contradiction: > > Let it be easier to communicate in plain text than HTML. > > Then everyone would want to communicate in plain text at all times. > > Not all books or emails or newspapers are written in plain text. > > In fact most aren't. > > Therefore plain text is not easier. > > And people wear make-up and spend hours dressing up and combing their > hair because it is easier than throwing on a sack? > That's a straw-man argument, and thus an invalid refutation. > Pretty is one thing, art is another. I was asking for functional > differences that _improve_ communications. > Define "improve" and maybe we can see more clearly where the disconnect here is. But that said, you've been given several and if you're still not convinced than the issue is part semantics at best. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/cf8d351b/attachment.htm From florin at iucha.net Fri Jul 2 10:48:43 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 10:48:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> <20100701193246.GC4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20100702154843.GM4165@iris.iucha.org> On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 10:05:10AM -0500, Robert Nesius wrote: > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > > > > > Using HTML > > email > > > > is a > > > > > lot easier for people to communicate than plain. > > > > > > > Proof by contradiction: > > > Let it be easier to communicate in plain text than HTML. > > > Then everyone would want to communicate in plain text at all times. > > > Not all books or emails or newspapers are written in plain text. > > > In fact most aren't. > > > Therefore plain text is not easier. > > > > And people wear make-up and spend hours dressing up and combing their > > hair because it is easier than throwing on a sack? > > That's a straw-man argument, and thus an invalid refutation. I give you that is more pleasurable to for an artsy person to communicate by HTML where they can richly convey many nuances using text style and seamless inclusions of images and sound afforded by the medium. But it takes more work - it is not easier. It is more pleasurable for me (and Yaron) to manage my own web and e-mail server, but is not _easier_. I was asking about effective uses of HTML in current business correspondence, as opposed to fanciful (ornate signatures notwithstanding). Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/254a90b1/attachment.pgp From SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us Fri Jul 2 10:51:55 2010 From: SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us (Scott Downing) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 10:51:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Shared Disk Message-ID: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E021@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Some months back I asked about setting up a shared disk resource among multiple linux boxes, no one had a solution for me but there was some interest in hearing back about what I did. I wrote out the steps I did to get things working as a blog post because it turned out to be rather long and I'm not sure everyone here is interested in the details. http://gimparm.blogspot.com/2010/07/iscsi-with-ocfs2.html In summary, I decided on iscsitarget iscsitarget.sourceforge.net, open-iscsi www.open-iscsi.org and OCFS2 oss.oracle.com/projects/ocfs2 Mostly my choice to use those came down to popularity of articles surrounding the projects, available packages in the Ubuntu apt repository, and that fact that they worked on my first try. -Scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/eb4ba783/attachment-0001.htm From ubusum at ymail.com Fri Jul 2 11:25:54 2010 From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <595e6707ff9bc38fe8bfde0811620632.squirrel@usi-mail06-mtka.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> "Can you elaborate on what a "drop out" means? Does your laptop become unassociated, not receive any traffic from the AP, have you tried enabling broadcast of your SSID and checking to see if it is visible during these times?" Thanks for your helpful questions. These are mostly brief interruptions in the data stream while the laptop maintains its association. A bubble often comes up with a message "You are now connected to the internet" or something similar once it's reestablished a connection (running Win XP right now.) I just noticed key renewal is set for 3600 seconds so I don't think that's the issue (these dropouts can occur more frequently than once an hour). (What do you set your key renewal value to?) The laptop became unassociated with the longer dropouts and the SSID disappeared from the available list. Reboot seemed to solve the issue on these few occasions (which might point to the laptop, although as I said before, there have been no connection issues at other sites like the library or coffee shop where there is no encryption). Concerning DD-WRT: it was my intention to experiment with this or Tomato, hence the choice of the 54GL Linksys. But I don't want to go there if the router needs to be returned as defective. Not looking forward to the possibility of bricking it while flashing anyway. 2) I was looking for an indication of general sentiment on the UPC: thumbs up/down, worth getting an $80 battery? It was an intangible purchase that I'm revisiting now with the low battery. I could try to run it with a low battery and unplug the beeper and hope to still benefit from cleaner power during voltage drops. The unit was never relied upon to keep the system running during extended outages, although it did do this on occasion. But I assume voltage spike protection from the UPS is no better than a good surge protector, which I am using now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/17964c42/attachment.htm From jolexa at jolexa.net Fri Jul 2 11:37:13 2010 From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:37:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT), Ubu Sumner wrote: > > Concerning DD-WRT: it was my intention to experiment with this or > Tomato, hence the choice of the 54GL Linksys. But I don't want to go > there if the router needs to be returned as defective. Not looking > forward to the possibility of bricking it while flashing anyway. My 2 cents: I didn't find stability in my linksys 54G *until* I started using alternative firmware. -Jeremy From SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us Fri Jul 2 12:02:17 2010 From: SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us (Scott Downing) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:02:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT), Jeremy Olexa wrote: My 2 cents: > >I didn't find stability in my linksys 54G *until* I started using >alternative firmware. > >-Jeremy Exactly my experience -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/1f63fee4/attachment.bin From nesius at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 12:44:50 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:44:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100702154843.GM4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> <20100701193246.GC4165@iris.iucha.org> <20100702154843.GM4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 10:05:10AM -0500, Robert Nesius wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Florin Iucha wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 09:54:11AM -0500, Justin Krejci wrote: > > > > > > Using HTML > > > email > > > > > is a > > > > > > lot easier for people to communicate than plain. > > > > > > > > > Proof by contradiction: > > > > Let it be easier to communicate in plain text than HTML. > > > > Then everyone would want to communicate in plain text at all times. > > > > Not all books or emails or newspapers are written in plain text. > > > > In fact most aren't. > > > > Therefore plain text is not easier. > > > > > > And people wear make-up and spend hours dressing up and combing their > > > hair because it is easier than throwing on a sack? > > > > That's a straw-man argument, and thus an invalid refutation. > > I give you that is more pleasurable to for an artsy person to > communicate by HTML where they can richly convey many nuances using > text style and seamless inclusions of images and sound afforded by > the medium. But it takes more work - it is not easier. It is more > pleasurable for me (and Yaron) to manage my own web and e-mail server, > but is not _easier_. > I'll give you credit for stubbornly sticking to your guns but in truth you are going through such elaborate and obtuse misdirections that you're really arguing against yourself. I'm not artsy and I find typeset text easier to read - it enhances communication. I also find using WYSIWYG composers that allow me to leverage type-setting functionality without programming it by writing out the tags myself makes communication easier. Especially when I'm composing lists or imposing structure. > I was asking about effective uses of HTML in current business > correspondence, as opposed to fanciful (ornate signatures > notwithstanding). > You've been given more than enough proof points, and again are engaging in strawman counter-tactics. People really have been talking about business communication, not just signatures. But that's okay. Watching you stubbornly cling to your position is actually getting kind of amusing. "They said I could play my music at a reasonable volume... and compose mails in plaintext... and that's my red stapler.... I'll burn the place down." Cheers, -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/55a14366/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 12:50:19 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:50:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Scott Downing wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT), Jeremy Olexa wrote: > My 2 cents: > > > >I didn't find stability in my linksys 54G *until* I started using > >alternative firmware. > > > >-Jeremy > > > Exactly my experience > Ditto. My Linksys would basically hang and cause me to reboot it. Sometimes weeks would go by and I would be fine. Sometimes the probably would manifest within hours. My brother-in-law had a DSL modem/router that would get into a bad state when probed by Code Red and so while that flash-worm was prolific his connection was very unstable. I began to wonder if there was some sort of packet stream or probe that would randomly target me and cause a similar problem. In any case I was cursing my WRT54G and taking Cisco's name in vain. Finally one day I made the leap to DD-WRT and NEVER had a stability problem again. Same hardware, different software, much better result. Besides, I thought the whole point of buying a *GL series Linksys was that you weren't going to use the software it ships with. :) -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/cc8e9a3a/attachment.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 12:50:48 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:50:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Scott Downing wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT), ?Jeremy Olexa wrote: > My 2 cents: >> >>I didn't find stability in my linksys 54G *until* I started using >>alternative firmware. >> >>-Jeremy > > > Exactly my experience > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > We actually install these for residential customers quite often and DD-WRT has been a godsend. The only time we get calls about issues with the wireless routers we install now is when they get nuked because of power issues. The stock firmware is absolutely flaky. -- Donovan Niesen From ubusum at ymail.com Fri Jul 2 13:02:57 2010 From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 11:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <565226.48402.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> What I needed to know to give me confidence to go forward. Thanks. Can I assume DD-WRT over Tomato? i.e., most stable, user-friendly, least-likely to brick. (Too bad I didn't try DD-WRT on a flaky 54G before buying this one. Similar issues.) > >I didn't find stability in my linksys 54G *until* I started using >alternative firmware. > >-Jeremy Exactly my experience -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/1fb0776c/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 14:50:16 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 14:50:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <565226.48402.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <565226.48402.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Ubu Sumner wrote: > What I needed to know to give me confidence to go forward. Thanks. > > Can I assume DD-WRT over Tomato? i.e., most stable, user-friendly, least-likely > to brick. > > (Too bad I didn't try DD-WRT on a flaky 54G before buying this one. Similar > issues.) You might have had mixed results with your old one. Up through v4 of the hardware the 54G's had pretty standard hardware configs, and a nice roomy flash (4MB I think). In future versions cisco scaled back the flash to 2MB, which meant you had to install a smaller subset of the WRT distro that would fit in that footprint. In the end each successive version got a little trickier to deal with. The 54GL version is basically the V4 rev of the hardware. The easier upgrade process may work well for you. I don't know if I'd recommend Tomato over DD-WRT. I would half-guess that as long as whatever you use works and is stable, you'll be happy. :) I've used DD-WRT and I liked it very much. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/98219386/attachment-0001.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 15:14:13 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:14:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good. Ponies are better. Was: Will Google rule with ChromeOS/Android? In-Reply-To: <20100702154843.GM4165@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100701091448.D31197@real-time.com> <20100701154711.GB4165@iris.iucha.org> <20100701193246.GC4165@iris.iucha.org> <20100702154843.GM4165@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jul 2010, Florin Iucha wrote: > I was asking about effective uses of HTML in current business > correspondence, as opposed to fanciful (ornate signatures > notwithstanding). I would say that you received some good examples. You might not think that it is worth it to dump plain text in favor of HTML, but you have to admit that there is an upside to HTML. In the cost-benefit analysis, you think the cost does not outweigh the benefit. I'm with you on that, and I don't use HTML mail, but I admit that there are two sides to the story and that HTML mail makes sense for some people. For that reason I am not an ardent opponent of HTML mail, but it does bother me, especially when it is unnecessarily bulky. Mike From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 15:34:29 2010 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:34:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agreed. Flash back to original firmware. I wouldn't be overly afraid of flashing it. I have flashed BIOS with no problems. Does any one have horror stories about flashing ? I wonder how much of a warning it is versus actual failure rates. My 2.5 cents ,Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/ecccf01c/attachment.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 16:20:04 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:20:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Local place to find a good tech workbench? Message-ID: I have a few L-shaped desks in my office that have been OK but we're getting more and more machines in for repair/testing and we would be better served by a nice long work bench. Anybody know of a good place locally to pick something up like this? I saw some nice stuff online but they're heavy so the freight shipping ends up costing more than the furniture. -- Donovan Niesen From john.meier at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 22:40:29 2010 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 22:40:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Local place to find a good tech workbench? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Donovan wrote: > I have a few L-shaped desks in my office that have been OK but we're > getting more and more machines in for repair/testing and we would be > better served by a nice long work bench. Anybody know of a good place > locally to pick something up like this? > > I hit up the local big box store for a counter top. Then built a frame from 2x4s I had laying around (you could also get bench bracket parts at the store too). I was able to make it at a custom height that worked well for standing or sitting at with a bench stool/drafting chair... Donovan Niesen > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100702/7bb372c6/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 01:10:37 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 01:10:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Local place to find a good tech workbench? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:40 PM, John Meier wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Donovan wrote: > >> I have a few L-shaped desks in my office that have been OK but we're >> getting more and more machines in for repair/testing and we would be >> better served by a nice long work bench. Anybody know of a good place >> locally to pick something up like this? >> >> > I hit up the local big box store for a counter top. Then built a frame > from 2x4s I had laying around (you could also get bench bracket parts at the > store too). I was able to make it at a custom height that worked well for > standing or sitting at with a bench stool/drafting chair... > > To that point, over the span of my career I've had several different office types. The office that has been the best for me is the "standing office" - where the desk is at a height where I can work while standing, with a tall chair and foot stool to allow me to work while sitting from time to time. Oddly, I do my best work while standing. I never would have expected that. I'd encourage anyone to give it a try. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100703/b50abc5b/attachment.htm From zzabnr at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 10:30:50 2010 From: zzabnr at gmail.com (bnr bnr) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:30:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good, the pony express was better? Message-ID: -.-- --- ..- + .- ... -.-. .. .. + .--. . --- .--. .-.. . + .... .- -.. + - --- + .-. ..- .. -. + .- + ... .. -- .--. .-.. . + .-.. --- -. --. + -.. .. ... - .- -. -.-. . + -.-. --- -- -- ..- -. .. -.-. .- - .. --- -. + -- . - .... --- -.. + .-- .. - .... + .- + .-. .. -.. .. -.-. ..- .-.. --- ..- ... + ... -.-- ... - . -- + --- ..-. + .. -. - . -. - .. --- -. .- .-.. + --- -... ... ..-. ..- -.-. .- - .. --- -. + OK, all joking aside, every standard has its place, some messages are helped by html and others hurt. To state that html has either no place in email or is always the preferred encoding is merit-less fundamentalism. From rclarksean at arvig.net Sat Jul 3 11:49:46 2010 From: rclarksean at arvig.net (Randy Clarksean) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 11:49:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Local place to find a good tech workbench? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002c01cb1acf$beb7cc60$3c276520$@net> That is a great idea with the counter top. If you have a little more time and want something very permanent. I bought 3/4" or 1" square metal tube, cut them to length, had my brother weld them together, spray painted them, and then put particle board on the top of them. Put a clear finish on the particle board and had very sturdy work benches. I ended up making one desk height so that I could put a Beowulf on it along with other computers at the time. I am using it to this day in my office :-) I also made some taller ones so that standing by them or sitting on a stool worked great. They are EXTREMELY sturdy and will last a long time. They are more work though ... but very functional. Randy From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of John Meier Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:40 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] OT: Local place to find a good tech workbench? On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Donovan wrote: I have a few L-shaped desks in my office that have been OK but we're getting more and more machines in for repair/testing and we would be better served by a nice long work bench. ?Anybody know of a good place locally to pick something up like this? I hit up the local big box store for a counter top. ?Then built a frame from 2x4s I had laying around (you could also get bench bracket parts at the store too). ?I was able to make it at a custom height that worked well for standing or sitting at with a bench stool/drafting chair... Donovan Niesen _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From justin.kremer at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 12:13:13 2010 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:13:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Local place to find a good tech workbench? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:40 PM, John Meier wrote: > I hit up the local big box store for a counter top. ?Then built a frame from > 2x4s I had laying around (you could also get bench bracket parts at the > store too). ?I was able to make it at a custom height that worked well for > standing or sitting at with a bench stool/drafting chair... That reminds me...I actually built my own workbench out of 2x4's and plywood last winter. I roughly followed these instructions, which worked very well. http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/workshop/bench/below20.html I used my own measurements because I wanted a standing bench for me working on computers, which I think was a little higher than they recommended, and I had a specific space that I wanted to fit in. I had some scraps of 2x4, 2x6 and plywood left over from house projects, so I think I actually spent about $10 on materials specifically for this project. I did not put on a bottom shelf. YMMV. I work for a company that has an ESD controlled environment, so I got permission to take a used scrap of ESD bench mat home, and put that on top of the bench. Wired that down to ground, and I've got a perfect DIY computer work bench. I looked around, and a piece of ESD mat for the average size bench would probably be $50-100. - Justin From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Jul 3 13:27:38 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:27:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good, the pony express was better? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <81300F04-E719-4FDA-A77D-13318C86082D@me.com> bnr bnr, You lose all your geek cred for that message... :D On Jul 3, 2010, at 10:30 AM, bnr bnr wrote: > -.-- --- ..- + .- ... -.-. .. .. + .--. . --- .--. > .-.. . + .... .- -.. + - --- + .-. ..- .. -. + .- + > ... .. -- .--. .-.. . + .-.. --- -. --. + -.. .. ... - > .- -. -.-. . + -.-. --- -- -- ..- -. .. -.-. .- - .. > --- -. + -- . - .... --- -.. + .-- .. - .... + .- + > .-. .. -.. .. -.-. ..- .-.. --- ..- ... + ... -.-- ... - > . -- + --- ..-. + .. -. - . -. - .. --- -. .- .-.. + > --- -... ... ..-. ..- -.-. .- - .. --- -. + > > OK, all joking aside, every standard has its place, some messages are > helped by html and others hurt. To state that html has either no place > in email or is always the preferred encoding is merit-less > fundamentalism. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kc0iog at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 15:09:49 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 15:09:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: >> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT), ?Jeremy Olexa wrote: >> >I didn't find stability in my linksys 54G *until* I started using >> >alternative firmware. >> >> Exactly my experience > > Ditto.? My Linksys would basically hang and cause me to reboot it. Tritto? My in-laws had a WRT54G, which I returned for a replacement WRT54G, and the problem continued. Loaded up DD-WRT and it's been rock solid ever since. I have a WRT54G2, which I purchased for the sole purpose of running DD-WRT. I never gave the Linksys firmware any runtime, but previous experience tells me that wouldn't have gone well. DD-WRT has been flawless for me. Btw, one of my co-workers reports similar behavior in his Linksys 802.11N router, so as far as I know this type of failure continues to plague Linksys firmware. To the orginal poster: IMHO you're doiing a disservice to yourself and others by running stock firmware on a WRT54GL. I wouldn't be surpised one bit if your problems disappear when you load up a variety of *WRT. Not to mention, Linksys firmware is incredibly limited in comparison. You can do *useful* things with the linux firmware, not true with Linksys. Brian From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 20:48:07 2010 From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 20:48:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: I'm running a pair of WRT54GS routers for routing and a wireless bridge, and have been for a few years now. ?Originally I used?the DD-WRT firmware, but last spring I upgraded to the latest Tomato firmware. I've found the Tomato firmware to be more stable for me, and the built-in traffic logs and graphs lets me know the headroom I have on any ISP soft-caps (I should be good unless the wife gets into Netflix HD streaming... Old 80s TV shows are just fine ) Ron On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Brian Wall wrote: > > >> On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT), ?Jeremy Olexa wrote: > >> >I didn't find stability in my linksys 54G *until* I started using > >> >alternative firmware. > >> > >> Exactly my experience > > > > Ditto.? My Linksys would basically hang and cause me to reboot it. > > Tritto? > > My in-laws had a WRT54G, which I returned for a replacement WRT54G, > and the problem continued. ?Loaded up DD-WRT and it's been rock solid > ever since. ?I have a WRT54G2, which I purchased for the sole purpose > of running DD-WRT. ?I never gave the Linksys firmware any runtime, but > previous experience tells me that wouldn't have gone well. ?DD-WRT has > been flawless for me. > > Btw, one of my co-workers reports similar behavior in his Linksys > 802.11N router, so as far as I know this type of failure continues to > plague Linksys firmware. > > To the orginal poster: IMHO you're doiing a disservice to yourself and > others by running stock firmware on a WRT54GL. ?I wouldn't be surpised > one bit if your problems disappear when you load up a variety of *WRT. > ?Not to mention, Linksys firmware is incredibly limited in comparison. > ?You can do *useful* things with the linux firmware, not true with > Linksys. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- http://ronspace.org/ From brian at ropers-huilman.net Sat Jul 3 20:56:36 2010 From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 20:56:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] HTML is good, the pony express was better? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 10:30, bnr bnr wrote: > ?-.-- ?--- ?..- ?+ ?.- ?... ?-.-. ?.. ?.. ?+ ?.--. ?. ?--- ?.--. > .-.. ?. ?+ ?.... ?.- ?-.. ?+ ?- ?--- ?+ ?.-. ?..- ?.. ?-. ?+ ?.- ?+ > ... ?.. ?-- ?.--. ?.-.. ?. ?+ ?.-.. ?--- ?-. ?--. ?+ ?-.. ?.. ?... ?- > .- ?-. ?-.-. ?. ?+ ?-.-. ?--- ?-- ?-- ?..- ?-. ?.. ?-.-. ?.- ?- ?.. > --- ?-. ?+ ?-- ?. ?- ?.... ?--- ?-.. ?+ ?.-- ?.. ?- ?.... ?+ ?.- ?+ > .-. ?.. ?-.. ?.. ?-.-. ?..- ?.-.. ?--- ?..- ?... ?+ ?... ?-.-- ?... ?- > ?. ?-- ?+ ?--- ?..-. ?+ ?.. ?-. ?- ?. ?-. ?- ?.. ?--- ?-. ?.- ?.-.. ?+ > ?--- ?-... ?... ?..-. ?..- ?-.-. ?.- ?- ?.. ?--- ?-. ?+ But more people and systems know ASCII as opposed to Morse. :) Ruin is a bit of a strong word as well. But, for "long distance," I don't think you can beat Morse, at least texting can't: http://www.ropers-huilman.net/Morse_Code_vs_Texting.wmv -- Brian D. Ropers-Huilman 612.234.7778 From escargo at skypoint.com Sat Jul 3 21:54:13 2010 From: escargo at skypoint.com (David S. Cargo) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 21:54:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ethernet cable repair or donation Message-ID: <7ktv261c6bl096jpejm8blavsqi6nmvrbm@4ax.com> Greeting, Linux users. I have a hardwired network in my home, currently capable of connecting five computers, except for one problem. I'm using CAT5 cables, but one of my furry, four-footed cats likes to chew on them. I have a 75-foot cable that stopped being functional after his last, successful flossing session. There are significant lengths of it that are still good, but it's not functional as a whole, currently. I don't have the connectors and crimping tool to cut it up and rework it into smaller functional cables. I'm willing to donate to somebody who does, ideally in exchange for a short cable in return. (I'm more than glad to pay for the terminations.) Anybody out there make their own cables? Thanks. escargo (not a big fan of wireless networks) From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat Jul 3 22:28:55 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 22:28:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] ethernet cable repair or donation In-Reply-To: <7ktv261c6bl096jpejm8blavsqi6nmvrbm@4ax.com> References: <7ktv261c6bl096jpejm8blavsqi6nmvrbm@4ax.com> Message-ID: If you're near Shoreview I'd be happy to fix it for you, no donation required. On Sat, 3 Jul 2010, David S. Cargo wrote: > Greeting, Linux users. > > I have a hardwired network in my home, currently capable of connecting > five computers, except for one problem. > > I'm using CAT5 cables, but one of my furry, four-footed cats likes to > chew on them. > > I have a 75-foot cable that stopped being functional after his last, > successful flossing session. > > There are significant lengths of it that are still good, but it's not > functional as a whole, currently. > > I don't have the connectors and crimping tool to cut it up and rework > it into smaller functional cables. > > I'm willing to donate to somebody who does, ideally in exchange for > a short cable in return. (I'm more than glad to pay for the > terminations.) > > Anybody out there make their own cables? > > Thanks. > > escargo (not a big fan of wireless networks) > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 23:05:44 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 23:05:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jul 2010, Brian Wall wrote: > You can do *useful* things with the linux firmware, not true with > Linksys. Can you give some examples of the useful things people are doing with the DD-WRT? I'm another person who replaced his Linksys WRT-54G with another Linksys WRT-54G when the first one failed. When the second one gave me problems, I updated the firmware, and that helped. I saved the old router because I had a suspicion the hardware might not have been the problem. Now I think I should try DD-WRT on the newer router and maybe get out the old one and do something with it too. Mike From nesius at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 23:30:49 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 21:30:49 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Mike Miller > wrote: > On Sat, 3 Jul 2010, Brian Wall wrote: > > > You can do *useful* things with the linux firmware, not true with > > Linksys. > > Can you give some examples of the useful things people are doing with the > DD-WRT? > > Beyond the improved stability.... 1) Larger number of port-forward rules - Linksys had a hard-cap of 10 rules and I needed more than that. 2) Graphical bandwidth utilization monitoring for WAN, LAN, and WLAN. This functionality helped me track perceive some periodic bandwidth spikes coming from my wireless link that were causing me issues at times. (My wife's iPhone - forgot the damn things have wi-fi capability and she didn't even realize the wi-fi was on despite lamenting her battery didn't seem to be lasting as long as usual). 3) Overall there were a lot more configuration options all over the place. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100703/fb47ce4d/attachment-0001.htm From trnja001 at umn.edu Sat Jul 3 23:37:31 2010 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 23:37:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <58697E69-6B56-4C25-9E0A-5F426C8003A7@umn.edu> On Jul 3, 2010, at 11:05 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 3 Jul 2010, Brian Wall wrote: > >> You can do *useful* things with the linux firmware, not true with >> Linksys. > > Can you give some examples of the useful things people are doing with the > DD-WRT? I used the client mode for wireless networks to connect several devices that were not WiFi capable to a much larger network. The real-time bandwidth monitor is occasionally useful as well if you have Comcast. From nesius at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 23:56:09 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 23:56:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <58697E69-6B56-4C25-9E0A-5F426C8003A7@umn.edu> References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <58697E69-6B56-4C25-9E0A-5F426C8003A7@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > On Jul 3, 2010, at 11:05 PM, Mike Miller > > wrote: > > > On Sat, 3 Jul 2010, Brian Wall wrote: > > > >> You can do *useful* things with the linux firmware, not true with > >> Linksys. > > > > Can you give some examples of the useful things people are doing with the > > DD-WRT? > > I used the client mode for wireless networks to connect several devices > that were not WiFi capable to a much larger network. The real-time bandwidth > monitor is occasionally useful as well if you have Comcast. > Interesting- you made a wireless bridge, in essence? -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100703/da0501d8/attachment.htm From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 07:24:30 2010 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 07:24:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Re: Ethernet cables 568b is what your looking for and here is a diagram for the wiring.http://www.incentre.net/content/view/75/2/ You will need a tool and some ends to make your own http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-04613-Modular-Crimp/dp/B00006B6P0 Now you can fix your own or order bulk cable and ends. ,Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100704/174f6857/attachment.htm From kc0iog at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 12:59:13 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:59:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] ethernet cable repair or donation In-Reply-To: References: <7ktv261c6bl096jpejm8blavsqi6nmvrbm@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 10:28 PM, Yaron wrote: > > If you're near Shoreview I'd be happy to fix it for you, no donation > required. Likewise, I carry my network tools in my car, so I'd be willing to help if needed. Where are you located? Brian From kc0iog at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 13:07:06 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 13:07:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > Can you give some examples of the useful things people are doing with the > DD-WRT? The most useful thing I've found is using VLANs, routing, and multiple SSIDs to control access to my network. I have a WPA2 SSID on the same VLAN as my wired network (servers, printer, etc), and an open SSID on a different VLAN for general net access for friends when they visit. I also like that I can dial down the transmit power. I have the AP in the basement, transmit power reduced coupled with my %$#@$# aluminum siding, the signal doesn't leave the house. True, you could wardrive me with a high gain antenna, but when the neighborhood is filled with "Linksys" and "Netgear" APs I don't look terribly interesting. The pretty graphs and SNMP stuff is cool too, though I haven't gotten my SNMP environment set up to take advantage of that yet. Brian From kc0iog at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 13:10:19 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 13:10:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <58697E69-6B56-4C25-9E0A-5F426C8003A7@umn.edu> References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <58697E69-6B56-4C25-9E0A-5F426C8003A7@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > I used the client mode for wireless networks to connect several devices that were not WiFi capable to a much larger network. The real-time bandwidth monitor is occasionally useful as well if you have Comcast. I had a thought, and I can't tell if it's possible.. can you set one up to be a repeater (full client and AP mode at the same time)? I've thought about doing this as a cheap way to extend the range, however from what I've seen you can only do one or the other. This I would require 2 units, which makes the problem less interesting. Brian From dniesen at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 13:20:05 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 13:20:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <58697E69-6B56-4C25-9E0A-5F426C8003A7@umn.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Brian Wall wrote: > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > >> I used the client mode for wireless networks to connect several devices that were not WiFi capable to a much larger network. The real-time bandwidth monitor is occasionally useful as well if you have Comcast. > > I had a thought, and I can't tell if it's possible.. can you set one > up to be a repeater (full client and AP mode at the same time)? ?I've > thought about doing this as a cheap way to extend the range, however > from what I've seen you can only do one or the other. ?This I would > require 2 units, which makes the problem less interesting. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > You sure can. We've set these up as repeaters as we had nothing but trouble with the so-called "range extenders" from any manufacturer. This kept a very solid connection for a client of our's who was pushing wireless out to his garage. It takes some tinkering to get going and I don't remember the exact method but it definitely works. -- Donovan Niesen From pcutler at gnome.org Sun Jul 4 20:06:44 2010 From: pcutler at gnome.org (Paul Cutler) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 20:06:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <169979.71042.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <58697E69-6B56-4C25-9E0A-5F426C8003A7@umn.edu> Message-ID: <1278292004.3665.25.camel@linux-i27z.site> On Sun, 2010-07-04 at 13:20 -0500, Donovan wrote: > On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Brian Wall wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > > > >> I used the client mode for wireless networks to connect several devices that were not WiFi capable to a much larger network. The real-time bandwidth monitor is occasionally useful as well if you have Comcast. > > > > I had a thought, and I can't tell if it's possible.. can you set one > > up to be a repeater (full client and AP mode at the same time)? I've > > thought about doing this as a cheap way to extend the range, however > > from what I've seen you can only do one or the other. This I would > > require 2 units, which makes the problem less interesting. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > You sure can. We've set these up as repeaters as we had nothing but > trouble with the so-called "range extenders" from any manufacturer. > This kept a very solid connection for a client of our's who was > pushing wireless out to his garage. It takes some tinkering to get > going and I don't remember the exact method but it definitely works. > Lifehacker just did a howto on using DD-WRT to set up a repeater a few weeks ago: http://lifehacker.com/178132/hack-attack-turn-your-60-router-into-a-600-router Paul From tompoe at meltel.net Sun Jul 4 22:22:48 2010 From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom Poe) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 22:22:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: businesses in mn that sell money orders Message-ID: <4C315008.90705@meltel.net> Just relocated to the state. Wal-Mart refused federal government check cash request. Peeves me greatly. I need to get up to speed on what businesses sell money orders. I'm in St Cloud area. Thanks, Tom From sraun at fireopal.org Mon Jul 5 06:21:23 2010 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 06:21:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: businesses in mn that sell money orders In-Reply-To: <4C315008.90705@meltel.net> References: <4C315008.90705@meltel.net> Message-ID: <20100705112123.GB12483@fireopal.org> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 10:22:48PM -0500, Tom Poe wrote: > Just relocated to the state. Wal-Mart refused federal government check > cash request. Peeves me greatly. I need to get up to speed on what > businesses sell money orders. I'm in St Cloud area. My favorite is still the US Postal Service. You could check out www.moneygram.com and see who their local agents are. SuperAmerica is one of them. -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com Mon Jul 5 21:38:56 2010 From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:38:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: businesses in mn that sell money orders In-Reply-To: <4C315008.90705@meltel.net> References: <4C315008.90705@meltel.net> Message-ID: <1278383936.3439.1.camel@robert-desktop> Ditto USPS. On Sun, 2010-07-04 at 22:22 -0500, Tom Poe wrote: > Just relocated to the state. Wal-Mart refused federal government check > cash request. Peeves me greatly. I need to get up to speed on what > businesses sell money orders. I'm in St Cloud area. > Thanks, Tom > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From andyzib at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 10:03:08 2010 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:03:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: <565226.48402.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <565226.48402.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I had some issues with a specific release of DD-WRT (sorry don't recall which) where my WRT54GL would just start getting slower and slower until it eventually just stopped working and needed to be hard reset. The issue occurred on multiple WRT54GL routers, so it wasn't hardware. I switch to Tomato and the problem went away. Tomato is really nice if you just want a nice simple router with a few extra tools and config files you can tweak to your liking. DD-WRT is great if you want an embedded server OS with your router. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 10:56:33 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:56:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hardware questions. In-Reply-To: References: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E023@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <565226.48402.qm@web59408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > I had some issues with a specific release of DD-WRT (sorry don't > recall which) where my WRT54GL would just start getting slower and > slower until it eventually just stopped working and needed to be hard > reset. The issue occurred on multiple WRT54GL routers, so it wasn't > hardware. I switch to Tomato and the problem went away. Sounds like you ran the network stack out of available connections. I've seen this happen on commercial gear when a host decides to run wild (either an overzealous P2P user or a worm). It's easy to point at the router and say "oh that must be it" but in fact it's a network host that's stealing TCP connections faster than the router can release them. I'm glad that a different software rev has fixed it for you. You might also want to check your environment and make sure you don't have a host running cowboy on your network. Brian From tclug at jfoo.org Tue Jul 6 14:10:48 2010 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:10:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial training Message-ID: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> Hi, this is perhaps a long shot but: is there anyone locally who does Mercurial training? Thanks j From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Tue Jul 6 14:27:13 2010 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 14:27:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial training In-Reply-To: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> References: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <20100706192713.GB7938@weegee.ath.cx> On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 02:10:48PM -0500, John Gateley wrote: > Hi, this is perhaps a long shot but: is there anyone locally who does > Mercurial training? > > Thanks > > j > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list What do you need help with? I think there are many (myself included) on this list who may not be able to provide training, but we might be able to help you get started. -Adam From n0nas at amsat.org Tue Jul 6 15:13:18 2010 From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:13:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C338E5E.8090804@amsat.org> I've used the post office for money orders in the past. My only complaint has been the restricted hours. The local banks charge way too much money for a money order transaction. Super America gas stations and a local neighborhood gas station-grocery store-post office combo have been the most useful purchase sites for me and the cheapest. The one vendor I found who sold money orders for $1 flat-rate got shut out by the money order parent company. Doug. From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Jul 6 16:45:39 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:45:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Open reminder to those using Digest mode Message-ID: <2A591B20-246B-404D-A230-437605A57D9E@me.com> Please remember to change your subject line to match the subject of the email you are responding to. At least on my computer your emails are automatically marked as spam, and those of us who use threaded by subject sorting your message will not be part of the conversation (usually). Thanks, Ryan From dean at ripperd.com Tue Jul 6 16:39:03 2010 From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean E) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:39:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <4C338E5E.8090804@amsat.org> References: <4C338E5E.8090804@amsat.org> Message-ID: <4C33A277.6020304@ripperd.com> I haven't done one in 2 years or so, but previously the local Cub Foods would sell Moneygram money orders up to $500 for 48 cents a piece. Way cheaper than the post office. On 7/6/2010 3:13 PM, Doug Reed wrote: > I've used the post office for money orders in the past. My only > complaint has been the restricted hours. > The local banks charge way too much money for a money order transaction. > Super America gas stations and a local neighborhood gas station-grocery > store-post office combo have been the most useful purchase sites for me > and the cheapest. > The one vendor I found who sold money orders for $1 flat-rate got shut > out by the money order parent company. > > Doug. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From haircut at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 18:26:47 2010 From: haircut at gmail.com (Adam Monsen) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:26:47 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial training In-Reply-To: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> References: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <1278458807.21914.0.camel@scraps> On Tue, 2010-07-06 at 14:10 -0500, John Gateley wrote: > Hi, this is perhaps a long shot but: is there anyone locally who does > Mercurial training? If you haven't yet chosen hg and happen to be evaluating dVCS systems, consider git. I migrated a large codebase from SVN ( http://www.mifos.org , http://sf.net/projects/mifos ). I evaluated both hg and git, and ended up choosing git. Our team of 15 or so committers has been quite positive on the choice. Here is the summary of why we chose git over hg: http://www.mifos.org/developers/wiki/MifosVersionControlGuide#why-git I'd be happy to provide more information if desired. I wish I still lived in the area as I've become keen enough on git that I could imagine giving a tutorial. Hope this helps, -Adam M -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100706/d9afebf2/attachment.pgp From tclug at jfoo.org Tue Jul 6 21:02:20 2010 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:02:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial training In-Reply-To: <20100706192713.GB7938@weegee.ath.cx> References: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> <20100706192713.GB7938@weegee.ath.cx> Message-ID: <4C33E02C.4070508@jfoo.org> Adam Morris wrote: > On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 02:10:48PM -0500, John Gateley wrote: >> Hi, this is perhaps a long shot but: is there anyone locally who does >> Mercurial training? > > What do you need help with? I think there are many (myself included) on this list who may not be able to provide training, but we might be able to help you get started. Thanks, but I actually need training. It's not for me, it's for the company I work for. It would be nice to have a succinct classroom intro to it. j From tclug at jfoo.org Tue Jul 6 21:04:59 2010 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:04:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial training In-Reply-To: <1278458807.21914.0.camel@scraps> References: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> <1278458807.21914.0.camel@scraps> Message-ID: <4C33E0CB.4000906@jfoo.org> Adam Monsen wrote: > If you haven't yet chosen hg and happen to be evaluating dVCS systems, > consider git. I migrated a large codebase from SVN > ( http://www.mifos.org , http://sf.net/projects/mifos ). I evaluated > both hg and git, and ended up choosing git. Our team of 15 or so > committers has been quite positive on the choice. From what I have seen, both Hg and git are good. In our testing, converting the svn repository to git was broken - it was taking weeks, where a few hours was enough for Hg to convert it. Thanks j From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Jul 6 21:52:03 2010 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 21:52:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial training In-Reply-To: <4C33E0CB.4000906@jfoo.org> References: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> <1278458807.21914.0.camel@scraps> <4C33E0CB.4000906@jfoo.org> Message-ID: <4C33EBD3.7080507@mtu.net> On 07/06/2010 09:04 PM, John Gateley wrote: > Adam Monsen wrote: > >> If you haven't yet chosen hg and happen to be evaluating dVCS systems, >> consider git. I migrated a large codebase from SVN >> ( http://www.mifos.org , http://sf.net/projects/mifos ). I evaluated >> both hg and git, and ended up choosing git. Our team of 15 or so >> committers has been quite positive on the choice. >> > From what I have seen, both Hg and git are good. In our testing, > converting the svn repository to git was broken - it was taking > weeks, Sorry to hear that. I found it to work pretty well. > where a few hours was enough for Hg to convert it. > > What did you use for the conversion? Also how do you handle branches in the same repository? From johntrammell at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 08:53:54 2010 From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John Trammell) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:53:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial training In-Reply-To: <4C33E0CB.4000906@jfoo.org> References: <4C337FB8.30908@jfoo.org> <1278458807.21914.0.camel@scraps> <4C33E0CB.4000906@jfoo.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:04 PM, John Gateley wrote: > From what I have seen, both Hg and git are good. In our testing, > converting the svn repository to git was broken - it was taking > weeks, where a few hours was enough for Hg to convert it. > I regularly use git-svn on a repo with >25k commits with no problems. Never tried SVN/Mercurial though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100707/e8f1de85/attachment.htm From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Jul 7 12:07:45 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:07:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? Message-ID: We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a month for six months... Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). Thanks much, Ryan From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 12:21:11 2010 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:21:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a month for six months... Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). Thanks much, Ryan _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100707/3e6f8353/attachment.htm From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Jul 7 12:25:48 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:25:48 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: TBMK it's naked. There was *no* mention during the phone call about MSN and nothing in the flyer we got in the mail says anything about MSN (specifically mentions 12, 20 and 40Mb service, though). On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? > > >> On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: >> >> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a month for six months... >> >> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). >> >> Thanks much, >> Ryan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100707/359825d6/attachment.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 12:52:13 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:52:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I received the same flyer in my area (55417) and bit on it. I'm a sucker for big bandwidth. I should have it hooked up by this Friday and can provide any gory details. Apparently it's 40Mb/20Mb. I can just imagine a bunch of basement colo operations appearing around the cities. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > TBMK it's naked. There was *no* mention during the phone call about MSN and > nothing in the flyer we got in the mail says anything about MSN > (specifically mentions 12, 20 and 40Mb service, though). > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? > > On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: > > We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a > month for six months... > > Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and what > not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an upgrade? > I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). > > Thanks much, > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Donovan Niesen From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Jul 7 13:04:08 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:04:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58C4250C-6B4B-4318-8BE6-A3F53C219818@me.com> Exactly my thought/fear. Static IP is $6.95 according to a friend in WSP. I will have to set that up *after* the tech leaves, according to the sales/connection woman in Iowa that I spoke with (her name was Debbie, she was knowledgable from what I could tell but she could have been well scripted, too). -- Ryan On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > I received the same flyer in my area (55417) and bit on it. I'm a > sucker for big bandwidth. I should have it hooked up by this Friday > and can provide any gory details. > > Apparently it's 40Mb/20Mb. I can just imagine a bunch of basement > colo operations appearing around the cities. From mailinglists at soul-dev.com Wed Jul 7 13:06:32 2010 From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:06:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C34C228.5050302@soul-dev.com> Lucky dude! I have been waiting for anything more that 3Mbps/640Kbps at 55419. I had a discussion with a tech from IPHouse awhile back and they stated that Qwest does not (or can't?) allow 3rd party ISPs to use their FIOS network, but this was about 7-8 months back. You would know if you where going to use a 3rd party ISP (Visi, IPHouse, Others..) since you would be paying for DSL connectivity via Qwest (The physical line to their multiplexer) as well as connectivity to the ISP, so I guarantee it would be more than 29.99 (I pay $40 for my line, and $30 for my internet connection(To Visi)). So yes, you are using Qwest as an ISP (Not naked) under the branding of Microsoft. WTF, where is my 7Mbps service! :D On 7/7/2010 12:25 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > TBMK it's naked. There was *no* mention during the phone call about MSN > and nothing in the flyer we got in the mail says anything about MSN > (specifically mentions 12, 20 and 40Mb service, though). > > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > >> Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? >> >> >>> On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" >> > wrote: >>> >>> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is >>> $29.95 a month for six months... >>> >>> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, >>> and what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be >>> considering an upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month >>> rental otherwise). >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> Ryan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Jul 7 13:26:51 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:26:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: <4C34C228.5050302@soul-dev.com> References: <4C34C228.5050302@soul-dev.com> Message-ID: <11165DA7-024D-4DEE-94E4-A8E86E3BCDBE@me.com> My biggest gripe is that people use the term ISP for AOL, MSN, Qwest, Visi, et al. I provide internet SERVICES but not internet ACCESS. -- Ryan On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:06 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote: > Lucky dude! I have been waiting for anything more that 3Mbps/640Kbps at 55419. > > I had a discussion with a tech from IPHouse awhile back and they stated that Qwest does > not (or can't?) allow 3rd party ISPs to use their FIOS network, but this was about 7-8 > months back. > > You would know if you where going to use a 3rd party ISP (Visi, IPHouse, Others..) since > you would be paying for DSL connectivity via Qwest (The physical line to their > multiplexer) as well as connectivity to the ISP, so I guarantee it would be more than > 29.99 (I pay $40 for my line, and $30 for my internet connection(To Visi)). > > So yes, you are using Qwest as an ISP (Not naked) under the branding of Microsoft. > > WTF, where is my 7Mbps service! :D > > On 7/7/2010 12:25 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> TBMK it's naked. There was *no* mention during the phone call about MSN >> and nothing in the flyer we got in the mail says anything about MSN >> (specifically mentions 12, 20 and 40Mb service, though). >> >> >> On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: >> >>> Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is >>>> $29.95 a month for six months... >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, >>>> and what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be >>>> considering an upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month >>>> rental otherwise). >>>> >>>> Thanks much, >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at jskier.com Wed Jul 7 13:51:03 2010 From: jeremy at jskier.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:51:03 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?Anyone_with_Qwest_FIOS_experience=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am also in 55417 area and have been waiting for this- haven't seen a flier or been notified via e-mail that I had previously signed up for. I look forward to hearing about how your experience- I am very tired of the cable monopoly on high speed Internet in Minneapolis :) On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:52:13 -0500, Donovan wrote: > I received the same flyer in my area (55417) and bit on it. I'm a > sucker for big bandwidth. I should have it hooked up by this Friday > and can provide any gory details. > > Apparently it's 40Mb/20Mb. I can just imagine a bunch of basement > colo operations appearing around the cities. > > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> TBMK it's naked. There was *no* mention during the phone call about MSN >> and >> nothing in the flyer we got in the mail says anything about MSN >> (specifically mentions 12, 20 and 40Mb service, though). >> >> On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: >> >> Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? >> >> On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: >> >> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a >> month for six months... >> >> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and >> what >> not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an >> upgrade? >> I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). >> >> Thanks much, >> Ryan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> --- JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON jeremy at jskier.com From kjh at flyballdogs.com Wed Jul 7 13:51:57 2010 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:51:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ryan Coleman wrote: > We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a > month for six months... > > Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and > what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an > upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). What are your options for ISP? I was told that for residential service, you had to have MSN as your ISP. -- Kathryn http://womensfooty.com National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Jul 7 13:59:23 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:59:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34575908-56B5-4DE9-9C76-6416B80CD657@me.com> I think it's specific Central Offices; there's one near my apartment and Qwest has been doing a lot of buried cable work/running new bundles along Upper Afton Road, too. So it could just be your CO is not one of those that has Optics running to it. On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > I am also in 55417 area and have been waiting for this- haven't seen a > flier or been notified via e-mail that I had previously signed up for. I > look forward to hearing about how your experience- I am very tired of the > cable monopoly on high speed Internet in Minneapolis :) > > On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:52:13 -0500, Donovan wrote: >> I received the same flyer in my area (55417) and bit on it. I'm a >> sucker for big bandwidth. I should have it hooked up by this Friday >> and can provide any gory details. >> >> Apparently it's 40Mb/20Mb. I can just imagine a bunch of basement >> colo operations appearing around the cities. >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> TBMK it's naked. There was *no* mention during the phone call about MSN >>> and >>> nothing in the flyer we got in the mail says anything about MSN >>> (specifically mentions 12, 20 and 40Mb service, though). >>> >>> On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: >>> >>> Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? >>> >>> On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: >>> >>> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 > a >>> month for six months... >>> >>> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and >>> what >>> not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an >>> upgrade? >>> I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> Ryan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> > --- > JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON > jeremy at jskier.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 14:02:36 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:02:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In a Google search for "qwest fios" (without the quotes) this is the first thing that comes up: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Qwest-Doesnt-See-The-Point-In-FiOS-92195 Funny. Mike From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Jul 7 14:00:06 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:00:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> Kathryn, Is that for DSL or Fiber? That sounds like DSL to me. I was told *nothing* about MSN on the phone. -- Ryan On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > > Ryan Coleman wrote: >> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a >> month for six months... >> >> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and >> what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an >> upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). > > What are your options for ISP? I was told that for residential service, > you had to have MSN as your ISP. > > -- > Kathryn > http://womensfooty.com > National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Jul 7 14:07:31 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:07:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42F013AC-E78C-47CF-B6F8-94EB793BC92B@me.com> Yeah, I saw that last week. Funny. :) On Jul 7, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > In a Google search for "qwest fios" (without the quotes) this is the first > thing that comes up: > > http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Qwest-Doesnt-See-The-Point-In-FiOS-92195 > > Funny. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at jskier.com Wed Jul 7 14:19:41 2010 From: jeremy at jskier.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:19:41 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?Anyone_with_Qwest_FIOS_experience=3F?= In-Reply-To: <34575908-56B5-4DE9-9C76-6416B80CD657@me.com> References: <34575908-56B5-4DE9-9C76-6416B80CD657@me.com> Message-ID: We have been able to get up to 20 MB with the DSL2 option for about a year now. Although I know what a CO is I know very little about DSL- thought it was terrible with Qwest years ago when I tried it out. Not sure where the CO is located in my area since I'm with cable. Until I get FIOS at home I'm stuck/sticking with cable. BTW Comcast has said it is not interested in FTTH either, but at least Qwest is slowing getting their feet wet in this arena despite what they have said. On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:59:23 -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I think it's specific Central Offices; there's one near my apartment and > Qwest has been doing a lot of buried cable work/running new bundles along > Upper Afton Road, too. > > So it could just be your CO is not one of those that has Optics running to > it. > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > >> I am also in 55417 area and have been waiting for this- haven't seen a >> flier or been notified via e-mail that I had previously signed up for. I >> look forward to hearing about how your experience- I am very tired of the >> cable monopoly on high speed Internet in Minneapolis :) >> >> On Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:52:13 -0500, Donovan wrote: >>> I received the same flyer in my area (55417) and bit on it. I'm a >>> sucker for big bandwidth. I should have it hooked up by this Friday >>> and can provide any gory details. >>> >>> Apparently it's 40Mb/20Mb. I can just imagine a bunch of basement >>> colo operations appearing around the cities. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> TBMK it's naked. There was *no* mention during the phone call about MSN >>>> and >>>> nothing in the flyer we got in the mail says anything about MSN >>>> (specifically mentions 12, 20 and 40Mb service, though). >>>> >>>> On Jul 7, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: >>>> >>>> Is that naked dsl/qwest or is that serviced by msn? >>>> >>>> On Jul 7, 2010 12:17 PM, "Ryan Coleman" wrote: >>>> >>>> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 >> a >>>> month for six months... >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and >>>> what >>>> not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an >>>> upgrade? >>>> I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). >>>> >>>> Thanks much, >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >> --- >> JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON >> jeremy at jskier.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON jeremy at jskier.com From kjh at flyballdogs.com Wed Jul 7 14:26:41 2010 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:26:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> Message-ID: <74ff7c810b87093f35c29c578eef0a19.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> Ryan Coleman wrote: > Is that for DSL or Fiber? > > That sounds like DSL to me. I was told *nothing* about MSN on the phone. For DSL they are required to offer 3rd party ISP's. When I had Qwest DSL, my ISP was Realtime Systems. I was told by Qwest that if and when FTTN service became available in my area that MSN was the only ISP choice. That or Qwest Business Services. -- Kathryn http://womensfooty.com National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate From mfunger at arbita.net Wed Jul 7 14:34:45 2010 From: mfunger at arbita.net (Matthew F. Unger) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:34:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> Message-ID: As far as I know, no one is offering fiber to consumers in the greater TC market. The two consumer fiber products I'm aware of are FiOS (from Verizon) and Uverse (from AT&T). If you know of someone different, let me know, because I'm looking to get away from this stupid cable modem. I really don't want to deal with DSL because frankly, I don't trust Qwest, and they're lines have been the source of my frustration with DSL. Cheers, Matt -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:00 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? Kathryn, Is that for DSL or Fiber? That sounds like DSL to me. I was told *nothing* about MSN on the phone. -- Ryan On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > > Ryan Coleman wrote: >> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is $29.95 a >> month for six months... >> >> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, and >> what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering an >> upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). > > What are your options for ISP? I was told that for residential service, > you had to have MSN as your ISP. > > -- > Kathryn > http://womensfooty.com > National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nesius at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 14:49:46 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:49:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> Message-ID: Circling back to the topic of what is or is not allowed with your FIOS connection, and running your own basement datacenter... before you get too excited repeat after me: "I will read the Service Level Agreement and Terms of Service". What you will likely find is that consumer-broadband is usually burdened by ToS that does not allow you to have anything other than port 22 open. EVEN with a static address. And there is a good chance they WILL port-scan you, and they reserve the right to port scan you. MAYBE your Terms of Service are more lenient - I certainly hope so. But if you want to host your own web-services or even run a commercial website out of your basement legally, you may well have to upgrade to a commercial/home-business plan. In summary, read the fine print. And enjoy your phat pipe. ;) I just switched my company's outbound link to fiber and enjoyed downloading the latest Ubunto ISO at 1.4Megabytes/second. It reminded me of my first Mac SE w/ a 20 megabyte hard-drive. The I/O was so fast I would copy files around just to watch the progress bar on the file-copy dialog zip across the screen. Ah, memories. :) -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100707/f2fb3b95/attachment-0001.htm From josh at joshwelch.com Wed Jul 7 15:16:23 2010 From: josh at joshwelch.com (Josh Welch) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:16:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> Message-ID: I got some flyers from Qwest advertising that fiber is coming to my area (Prior Lake). On further investigation it appears that it's fiber to the CO (or some other distribution point) that's going to allow me to get better downloads than my current 1.5Mbps. I can get up to 20 down now but all the plans are 768Kbps upstream. Lame. I'm trying to decide whether additional downstream capacity is worth it for me to upgrade. Josh On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Matthew F. Unger wrote: > As far as I know, no one is offering fiber to consumers in the greater > TC market. The two consumer fiber products I'm aware of are FiOS (from > Verizon) and Uverse (from AT&T). If you know of someone different, let > me know, because I'm looking to get away from this stupid cable modem. I > really don't want to deal with DSL because frankly, I don't trust Qwest, > and they're lines have been the source of my frustration with DSL. > > Cheers, > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:00 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? > > Kathryn, > > Is that for DSL or Fiber? > > That sounds like DSL to me. I was told *nothing* about MSN on the phone. > > -- > Ryan > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > >> >> Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is > $29.95 a >>> month for six months... >>> >>> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, > and >>> what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering > an >>> upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). >> >> What are your options for ISP? ?I was told that for residential > service, >> you had to have MSN as your ISP. >> >> -- >> Kathryn >> http://womensfooty.com >> National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us Wed Jul 7 15:39:43 2010 From: SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us (Scott Downing) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:39:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> Message-ID: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E02C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Yeah, its fiber to the CO which gives you up to 20mb down. In my area 7mb up was available so I upgraded a few months ago to 12mb down and 7mb up, got a static ip and I use it for my own test server and some personal things. No one has complained, I wouldn't try to be a hosting center with that but if it isn't mission critical it works just fine. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Josh Welch Sent: Wed 7/7/2010 3:16 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? I got some flyers from Qwest advertising that fiber is coming to my area (Prior Lake). On further investigation it appears that it's fiber to the CO (or some other distribution point) that's going to allow me to get better downloads than my current 1.5Mbps. I can get up to 20 down now but all the plans are 768Kbps upstream. Lame. I'm trying to decide whether additional downstream capacity is worth it for me to upgrade. Josh On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Matthew F. Unger wrote: > As far as I know, no one is offering fiber to consumers in the greater > TC market. The two consumer fiber products I'm aware of are FiOS (from > Verizon) and Uverse (from AT&T). If you know of someone different, let > me know, because I'm looking to get away from this stupid cable modem. I > really don't want to deal with DSL because frankly, I don't trust Qwest, > and they're lines have been the source of my frustration with DSL. > > Cheers, > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:00 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? > > Kathryn, > > Is that for DSL or Fiber? > > That sounds like DSL to me. I was told *nothing* about MSN on the phone. > > -- > Ryan > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > >> >> Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is > $29.95 a >>> month for six months... >>> >>> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, > and >>> what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering > an >>> upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). >> >> What are your options for ISP? ?I was told that for residential > service, >> you had to have MSN as your ISP. >> >> -- >> Kathryn >> http://womensfooty.com >> National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4508 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100707/b674fbca/attachment.bin From j at packetgod.com Wed Jul 7 16:08:42 2010 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:08:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E02C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E02C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: Yeah I've got the same deal, 12Mb down 7Mb up, my line is their FIOS service and I did indeed have to drop IPHouse in order to get it :(. So technically I think it is MSN but I still had to go to Qwest to order the static IP. And currently I don't see any protocol limitations except perhaps on 25 which I don't currently use but I was told might be restricted. And yes is is actually fiber to a local termination point then VDSL to the home. So really I did see improvement from the old DSL in both latency (10ms drop) and jitter (~1 to 2ms current average jitter down from 5 to 10). But I cant really see any major improvements in speed and indeed some of the speed tests out there don't show me getting close to what I'm supposed to. So really they probably have the same uplink limitations they have always had. VOIP has improved overall due to the jitter decrease which is good. --j On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Scott Downing wrote: > Yeah, its fiber to the CO which gives you up to 20mb down. In my area 7mb > up was available so I upgraded a few months ago to 12mb down and 7mb up, got > a static ip and I use it for my own test server and some personal things. No > one has complained, I wouldn't try to be a hosting center with that but if > it isn't mission critical it works just fine. > > -Scott > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Josh Welch > Sent: Wed 7/7/2010 3:16 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? > > I got some flyers from Qwest advertising that fiber is coming to my > area (Prior Lake). On further investigation it appears that it's fiber > to the CO (or some other distribution point) that's going to allow me > to get better downloads than my current 1.5Mbps. I can get up to 20 > down now but all the plans are 768Kbps upstream. > > Lame. > > I'm trying to decide whether additional downstream capacity is worth > it for me to upgrade. > > Josh > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Matthew F. Unger > wrote: > > As far as I know, no one is offering fiber to consumers in the greater > > TC market. The two consumer fiber products I'm aware of are FiOS (from > > Verizon) and Uverse (from AT&T). If you know of someone different, let > > me know, because I'm looking to get away from this stupid cable modem. I > > really don't want to deal with DSL because frankly, I don't trust Qwest, > > and they're lines have been the source of my frustration with DSL. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Matt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman > > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:00 PM > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? > > > > Kathryn, > > > > Is that for DSL or Fiber? > > > > That sounds like DSL to me. I was told *nothing* about MSN on the phone. > > > > -- > > Ryan > > > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > > > >> > >> Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>> We're getting FIOS in 55125, the rate to my residence (20Mb) is > > $29.95 a > >>> month for six months... > >>> > >>> Does anyone have any experience with this? running your web server, > > and > >>> what not? Is the base modem pretty decent or should I be considering > > an > >>> upgrade? I did opt to purchase the modem ($8/month rental otherwise). > >> > >> What are your options for ISP? I was told that for residential > > service, > >> you had to have MSN as your ISP. > >> > >> -- > >> Kathryn > >> http://womensfooty.com > >> National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100707/16b8713a/attachment-0001.htm From mailinglists at soul-dev.com Wed Jul 7 22:26:13 2010 From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:26:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E02C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <4C354555.7040906@soul-dev.com> On 7/7/2010 4:08 PM, J Cruit wrote: > So technically I think it is MSN but I still had to go to Qwest to order > the static IP. Sorry, this is gonna bug me until I fix this. All of your connections where only branded under the MSN name which has been changed to WindowsLive these days. The IPs you are granted to use under Qwest are still leased from ARIN for Qwest specifically as well as their AS number. You only get automatically enrolled in MSN/WL when signing up for the service. Not sure how much Microsoft payed for that ;D. On 7/7/2010 2:26 PM, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > For DSL they are required to offer 3rd party ISP's. Man oh man (Oh wait :( ) wouldn't CLECs (Competitive Local Exchange Carriers) love that. Unfortunately this beer is not free (very much so not free). Nah, they gotta pay the big boys (ILECs) just like the rest of us. I have a feeling their strategy is to kill of the CLECs, or at least take their DSL customers away. I have a feeling this is a mostly political reasons, since I know I pay the same amount to Qwest as I would be using them solely. On 7/7/2010 2:49 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > What you will likely find is that consumer-broadband is usually burdened > by ToS that does not allow you to have anything other than port 22 > open. EVEN with a static address. And there is a good chance they WILL > port-scan you, and they reserve the right to port scan you. Um.. If they where that pissed off at the world why wouldent they just firewall those ports on there edge router? Most ToSs/AuPs (Oh any my favorite the MASTER AGREEMENT!) do indeed frown upon using your connections for business type uses, but as of yet, I have not seen anyone get the back hand for receiving emails or getting their DAMN WoW patches (one of Bittorrents many fine uses, along with getting that sweet new Lynx). There is really no way of them to know if you are using the provisioned bandwidth for business use, nor should have any reason to be sneaking peeks in my payloads (FRIGGAN COMCAST!). May need to double check those Privacy Policies while we're at it :( On 7/7/2010 2:02 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > In a Google search for "qwest fios" (without the quotes) this is the first > thing that comes up: > > http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Qwest-Doesnt-See-The-Point-In-FiOS-92195 Lollerskates MM. While FTTP is darn expensive, this got a good laugh out of me. Anyone seen Idiocracy (referring to Mike's link, not you fine guys.. er folks!) and are also very afraid? Well, that 'il be it from me, Have a fine Thursday all! From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Wed Jul 7 22:38:14 2010 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:38:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E02C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <4C354555.7040906@soul-dev.com> Message-ID: <0000129690@mail.penguinpackets.com> Damn Internet is just a fad anyway :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100707/c705c26d/attachment.htm From blawrence at qwest.net Wed Jul 7 23:30:33 2010 From: blawrence at qwest.net (Brian Lawrence) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 23:30:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? Message-ID: A few years ago there was a free computer recycling program at the Mall of America that was so successful they had to close it early because of the volume of equipment they received. I waited in line on 494 forever and was turned away like everyone else, but I called around that afternoon and found a place that took my truckload of computer equipment for free. If I recall correctly that place was Resource Recovery Technologies in Rosemount. When I called there today they told me that their price to recycle a computer and monitor was $75 which is consistent with most of the other places I've checked. Maybe I was lucky and got a deal or may RRT was involved with the MOA recycling program and I didn't know it. In any case, I have a basement full of ancient computers, monitors, printers, and network hardware that I want to get rid of and I would have to take out a loan to recycle it all. I know there are a few places in town that will refurbish old computers for low income families but I'm talking 286/386/486 vintage. Why do I still have all of these treasures? Good question. Time to let them go. So, does anyone know of any place within the metro area that will take ANY computer equipment for free? Brian From mailinglists at soul-dev.com Wed Jul 7 23:56:57 2010 From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:56:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C355A99.30405@soul-dev.com> Don't like Best Buy per chance? Drop your electronics on them: www.bestbuy.com/recycling Its free except for Monitors (10$) which they convert to BBY money (Gift Card). Weird. You will probably blow their minds if you act like you want them to fix 'em :D Cheers! On 07/07/10 23:30, Brian Lawrence wrote: > A few years ago there was a free computer recycling program at the Mall of > America that was so successful they had to close it early because of the > volume of equipment they received. I waited in line on 494 forever and was > turned away like everyone else, but I called around that afternoon and found > a place that took my truckload of computer equipment for free. If I recall > correctly that place was Resource Recovery Technologies in Rosemount. When I > called there today they told me that their price to recycle a computer and > monitor was $75 which is consistent with most of the other places I've > checked. Maybe I was lucky and got a deal or may RRT was involved with the > MOA recycling program and I didn't know it. In any case, I have a basement > full of ancient computers, monitors, printers, and network hardware that I > want to get rid of and I would have to take out a loan to recycle it all. I > know there are a few places in town that will refurbish old computers for > low income families but I'm talking 286/386/486 vintage. Why do I still have > all of these treasures? Good question. Time to let them go. > > So, does anyone know of any place within the metro area that will take ANY > computer equipment for free? > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From danyberg at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 04:07:21 2010 From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:07:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? Message-ID: The problem is, you guys are too close to the city... You need to move out to the middle of nowhere... I'm about 40-50 miles out of cities and I'm paying $39.95/Mo, for 50 meg FTTH. http://www.speedtest.net/result/872762919.png The upload speed isn't that great there, I don't know why it's so slow right now. I have my choice of TDS (They suck because the sued the city to stop them from putting in their own FTTH, but the service and prices are good) And Monticello Fiber (They suck because they lied about costs and there's no real support and most of the guys are just leaning on shovels all day.) http://sites.google.com/site/tdsvsfnm/home I'm not sure what the business rates are though. Dave -- "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan <>< -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100708/6b01f823/attachment.htm From tompoe at meltel.net Thu Jul 8 05:33:54 2010 From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom Poe) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 05:33:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> Brian Lawrence wrote: > A few years ago there was a free computer recycling program at the Mall of > America that was so successful they had to close it early because of the > volume of equipment they received. I waited in line on 494 forever and was > turned away like everyone else, but I called around that afternoon and found > a place that took my truckload of computer equipment for free. If I recall > correctly that place was Resource Recovery Technologies in Rosemount. When I > called there today they told me that their price to recycle a computer and > monitor was $75 which is consistent with most of the other places I've > checked. Maybe I was lucky and got a deal or may RRT was involved with the > MOA recycling program and I didn't know it. In any case, I have a basement > full of ancient computers, monitors, printers, and network hardware that I > want to get rid of and I would have to take out a loan to recycle it all. I > know there are a few places in town that will refurbish old computers for > low income families but I'm talking 286/386/486 vintage. Why do I still have > all of these treasures? Good question. Time to let them go. > > So, does anyone know of any place within the metro area that will take ANY > computer equipment for free? > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > http://www.freegeek.org Should be Twin Cities chapter.Tom From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com Thu Jul 8 06:42:11 2010 From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:42:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> References: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20100708062007.0254b338@pop.mm.com> Brian Lawrence wonders: >I have a basement full of ancient computers, monitors, >printers, and network hardware.... So, does anyone know of any >place within the metro area that will take ANY computer >equipment for free? Many MN counties have electronics & hazmat disposal programs, free for residents (ie, taxpayer subsidized). Call your county administration to see what they offer, or consult the Oracle of Google. Here are two facilities that I have used; both require proof of residence (eg, driver's license): HENNEPIN COUNTY / Drop-offs in Brooklyn Center and Bloomington Limit 5 (free) items per household per year. They used to have reciprocity arrangements with neighboring counties, so call them or check their website if you don't live in Hennepin Co. http://hennepin.us/dropoffs http://www.hennepinatoz.org/azguide/item/18;jsessionid=CAB986FB5F29F46746CA8717E8E66F27 WASHINGTON COUNTY / Environmental Center in Woodbury No limit, I believe, for residential waste. http://www.co.washington.mn.us/info_for_residents/environment/environmental_center/ From kjh at flyballdogs.com Thu Jul 8 07:48:44 2010 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:48:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> References: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> Message-ID: <81fe7b3246d3242b09eec9c6343f2407.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> Hennepin County residents can drop off electronics for free at either of the Hennepin County recycling centers: http://hennepin.us/dropoffs -- Kathryn http://womensfooty.com National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com Thu Jul 8 07:48:39 2010 From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:48:39 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20100708062007.0254b338@pop.mm.com> References: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> <6.1.2.0.2.20100708062007.0254b338@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E605E2C835@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com> Brian Lawrence wonders: >does anyone know of any >place within the metro area that will take ANY computer >equipment for free? If you live in Minneapolis, residents can offer a maximum of TWO items for pickup, free of charge each recycling day (every other week). I've recycled laser printers, dishwashers, monitors, and other gear with no problem. At least in my neighborhood, the trick is to put items out that morning to avoid scrap dealers parting out the valuable copper and leaving a mess of broken plastic (illegal, but at least the metal gets back into the use stream). http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/solid-waste/garbage-large-item.asp From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Thu Jul 8 08:23:49 2010 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:23:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> References: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> Message-ID: >> So, does anyone know of any place within the metro area that will take ANY >> computer equipment for free? > http://www.freegeek.org Should be Twin Cities chapter.Tom Yes, FreeGeek Twin Cities just got up and running last fall if I remember correctly. They take "free" hardware donations, but also suggest a monetary donation to properly dispose of it. See: http://freegeektwincities.org/donate Another nice thing about FreeGeek is that they reuse as much of it as possible and build computers to be given to volunteers (who learn as they volunteer) and other people who need them. From ryanjcole at me.com Thu Jul 8 08:39:20 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 08:39:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? In-Reply-To: <4C354555.7040906@soul-dev.com> References: <9447FA44-68D9-481E-A4B0-3FB88CA1A340@me.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E02C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <4C354555.7040906@soul-dev.com> Message-ID: <8F78C734-6C01-4BE8-A362-2052091D8012@me.com> Actually.... I do. Caffetto (a coffee house in uptown, and a client of mine) had fiber (according to the owner, but I never saw any proof) and they cut him off three times without notice; basically he said yesterday: "they just couldn't handle the kind of traffic [his customers] bring". On Jul 7, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote: > Um.. If they where that pissed off at the world why wouldent they just firewall those > ports on there edge router? Most ToSs/AuPs (Oh any my favorite the MASTER AGREEMENT!) do > indeed frown upon using your connections for business type uses, but as of yet, I have not > seen anyone get the back hand for receiving emails or getting their DAMN WoW patches (one > of Bittorrents many fine uses, along with getting that sweet new Lynx). From ryanjcole at me.com Thu Jul 8 08:46:07 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 08:46:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E605E2C835@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com> References: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> <6.1.2.0.2.20100708062007.0254b338@pop.mm.com> <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E605E2C835@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com> Message-ID: <7881CB10-5411-49D0-AEA5-94FA9E987A58@me.com> Yes, but I do not believe this is an option for apartment buildings who are required to hire third-party collection companies. On Jul 8, 2010, at 7:48 AM, Smith, Craig A wrote: > > Brian Lawrence wonders: >> does anyone know of any >> place within the metro area that will take ANY computer >> equipment for free? > > If you live in Minneapolis, residents can offer a maximum of TWO items > for pickup, free of charge each recycling day (every other week). I've > recycled laser printers, dishwashers, monitors, and other gear with no > problem. At least in my neighborhood, the trick is to put items out > that morning to avoid scrap dealers parting out the valuable copper and > leaving a mess of broken plastic (illegal, but at least the metal gets > back into the use stream). > http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/solid-waste/garbage-large-item.asp > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cwgriesel at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 08:47:26 2010 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:47:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Minneapolis Public Schools' "Transition Plus" program will take your old computers at no cost. They *won't* take monitors, printers, or anything else. They have a bin in their parking lot on the east side of Chicago Ave S, just north of 34th street. Just drop your computer in there. The computers are used in vocational training for students with disabilities. Mostly the computers are torn apart and the parts are sorted and sold for scrap, which in turn helps fund the training program for the students. Conveniently, Transition Plus is right next door to Free Geek. So you can give your decent stuff to Free Geek for them to use, and the stuff that is really junk, like your old PIIs, can go to Transition Plus. Or you can mix and match however you want. CRT monitors will be the hardest to get rid of. Hennepin county will take a limited number per household at no cost. Maybe you have a few friends in Hennepin county who you can "give" a couple monitors to? On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Brian Lawrence wrote: > A few years ago there was a free computer recycling program at the Mall of > America that was so successful they had to close it early because of the > volume of equipment they received. I waited in line on 494 forever and was > turned away like everyone else, but I called around that afternoon and > found > a place that took my truckload of computer equipment for free. If I recall > correctly that place was Resource Recovery Technologies in Rosemount. When > I > called there today they told me that their price to recycle a computer and > monitor was $75 which is consistent with most of the other places I've > checked. Maybe I was lucky and got a deal or may RRT was involved with the > MOA recycling program and I didn't know it. In any case, I have a basement > full of ancient computers, monitors, printers, and network hardware that I > want to get rid of and I would have to take out a loan to recycle it all. I > know there are a few places in town that will refurbish old computers for > low income families but I'm talking 286/386/486 vintage. Why do I still > have > all of these treasures? Good question. Time to let them go. > > So, does anyone know of any place within the metro area that will take ANY > computer equipment for free? > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100708/7feaf895/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 08:57:26 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:57:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: References: <4C35A992.3080003@meltel.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Max Shinn wrote: > >> So, does anyone know of any place within the metro area that will take > ANY > >> computer equipment for free? > > http://www.freegeek.org Should be Twin Cities chapter.Tom > Yes, FreeGeek Twin Cities just got up and running last fall if I > remember correctly. They take "free" hardware donations, but also > suggest a monetary donation to properly dispose of it. See: > http://freegeektwincities.org/donate > Another nice thing about FreeGeek is that they reuse as much of it as > possible and build computers to be given to volunteers (who learn as > they volunteer) and other people who need them. > > Free Geek has a focus on reuse, not just recycling. If you think your old hardware has some life left in it and like the thought of it helping some people who could use a computer but maybe not afford one - this is the place for you. They are also very linux-oriented. I think everything they send out has a linux distro loaded on it. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100708/78643744/attachment.htm From jeremy at jskier.com Thu Jul 8 09:14:06 2010 From: jeremy at jskier.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 07:14:06 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?Anyone_with_Qwest_FIOS_experience=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That was an interesting lawsuit that played out where you live. Sounds like it (somewhat) worked out in favor of residents and business with the competition of FTTP providers? I also heard way up north, along Highway 2, many in the boonies have the option of FTTP since they were stuck with dial-up for so long and the demand for residential and business broadband was there- and I suppose there are plenty of places to dig for the lines. So much for technological bragging rights from a city slicker stuck with cable! --- JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON jeremy at jskier.com [1] On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:07:21 -0500, swede wrote: The problem is, you guys are too close to the city... You need to move out to the middle of nowhere... I'm about 40-50 miles out of cities and I'm paying $39.95/Mo, for 50 meg FTTH. http://www.speedtest.net/result/872762919.png [2] The upload speed isn't that great there, I don't know why it's so slow right now. I have my choice of TDS (They suck because the sued the city to stop them from putting in their own FTTH, but the service and prices are good) And Monticello Fiber (They suck because they lied about costs and there's no real support and most of the guys are just leaning on shovels all day.) http://sites.google.com/site/tdsvsfnm/home [3] I'm not sure what the business rates are though. Dave -- "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan < Links: ------ [1] mailto:jeremy at jskier.com [2] http://www.speedtest.net/result/872762919.png [3] http://sites.google.com/site/tdsvsfnm/home From swaite at sbn-services.com Thu Jul 8 12:02:05 2010 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:02:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? Message-ID: <1278608525.4c36048d00e01@g3.sbn-services.com> I just disposed of a lot of equipment at the Hennepin county drop off in Brooklyn Park (2 cars to deliver). Now, on their website they do say "5" items per person, per calendar year. I called and spoke with someone at their office who explained to me that this was 5 items per category, not 5 items total. In other words 5 printers + 5 monitors +5 computers + 5 TVs, etc.. However, when I did arrive there I got hassled a lot by the staff, who I had to constantly tell them that this was not from a business, and that I was told directly from their own office I was allowed the 5 items per category. Suffice to say they did not understand that some tech geeks tend to collect lots of equipment over time. Hell, I was disposing of 500mhz computers, and printers collected over 10 years. What you can do is maybe list anything that could still be of use here, and some may take it. Then, list some on Craigslist. After simply organize the collection to 5 items per category and prepare to argue you way through the gates of hell/Hennepin County recycling and simply explain that this is items collected over a 10-15 year span. Just remember what they really care about is insuring you are not a business skirting the rules and trying to avoid paying. Go down during the weekday, and if they really hassle you then demand they call their office to confirm the rules for residents. I forgot the woman's name I spoke with, but it was something like Louisa Rodriquez? Definitely either Hispanic name. At Thursday, 08-07-2010 on 7:48 Kathryn Hogg wrote: Hennepin County residents can drop off electronics for free at either of the Hennepin County recycling centers: http://hennepin.us/dropoffs -- Kathryn http://womensfooty.com National Team Donation - http://womensfooty.com/freedom/donate _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100708/51637b34/attachment.htm From Dean.Benjamin at mm.com Thu Jul 8 12:54:20 2010 From: Dean.Benjamin at mm.com (Dean.Benjamin at mm.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:54:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <1278608525.4c36048d00e01@g3.sbn-services.com> References: <1278608525.4c36048d00e01@g3.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20100708124558.02562b20@pop.mm.com> While poking around Craig's List the other day, I stumbled on an Items Wanted post from an artist in SW Minneapolis. He's doing an art project -- a sculpture, I think -- that requires a bazillion keyboards. I took the opportunity to offload a pile of dusty keyboards from my basement hoard. He's coming by next week to collect them from my doorstep. If you have excess keyboards, he wants them bad enough to come to your house to get them. Here's his post on Craig's List, dated July 3: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/wan/1824829865.html From andyzib at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 13:07:13 2010 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:07:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20100708124558.02562b20@pop.mm.com> References: <1278608525.4c36048d00e01@g3.sbn-services.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20100708124558.02562b20@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: Had the exact opposite experience the last time I went to the Hennepin county drop off in Brooklyn Park. Drove in, dropped off computers, monitors, keyboards, an a box of ISA and PCI cards no questions asked, just checked ID of the car's driver. (I don't live in Henn Co... ;)) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From ryanjcole at me.com Thu Jul 8 13:19:00 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:19:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: References: <1278608525.4c36048d00e01@g3.sbn-services.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20100708124558.02562b20@pop.mm.com> Message-ID: <6A0A5037-D3FB-46A8-80A2-4AC1E06A77F1@me.com> Andrew, that center takes materials for the 5-county area; I can use my ID that says I live in Uptown at the Washington Co. recycling station. I haven't yet, but the websites all state that I can. -- Ryan On Jul 8, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > Had the exact opposite experience the last time I went to the Hennepin > county drop off in Brooklyn Park. Drove in, dropped off computers, > monitors, keyboards, an a box of ISA and PCI cards no questions asked, > just checked ID of the car's driver. (I don't live in Henn Co... ;)) > > > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From danyberg at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 15:35:58 2010 From: danyberg at gmail.com (swede) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:35:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 07:14:06 -0700 > From: Jeremy MountainJohnson > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Anyone with Qwest FIOS experience? > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > That was an interesting lawsuit that played out where you live. Sounds > like > it (somewhat) worked out in favor of residents and business with the > competition of FTTP providers? > > It did help. The city went to TDS and asked them to put in fiber, and TDS refused saying there was no market. The City went ahead and did it themselves and TDS sued to stop (Really just to slow them down while TDS put in their own network) them. And I dislike TDS for what they did, and for their higher prices on phone and such, but because the city claimed they would have lower prices on fiber and phone TDS was forced to bring down their prices. But their service is pretty good, and it's affordable compared to my other options here. Cable costs more for less speed and it wasn't that reliable. > I also heard way up north, along Highway 2, many in the boonies have the > option of FTTP since they were stuck with dial-up for so long and the > demand for residential and business broadband was there- and I suppose > there are plenty of places to dig for the lines. > > So much for technological bragging rights from a city slicker stuck with > cable! > > --- > JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON > jeremy at jskier.com [1] > > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:07:21 -0500, swede wrote: > The problem is, you guys are too close to the city... You need to move out > to the middle of nowhere... > I'm about 40-50 miles out of cities and I'm paying $39.95/Mo, for 50 meg > FTTH. > > http://www.speedtest.net/result/872762919.png [2] The upload speed isn't > that great there, I don't know why it's so slow right now. > > I have my choice of TDS (They suck because the sued the city to stop them > from putting in their own FTTH, but the service and prices are good) > And Monticello Fiber (They suck because they lied about costs and there's > no real support and most of the guys are just leaning on shovels all day.) > > http://sites.google.com/site/tdsvsfnm/home [3] > > I'm not sure what the business rates are though. > > Dave > > -- > "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; > government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan > > < > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] mailto:jeremy at jskier.com > [2] http://www.speedtest.net/result/872762919.png > [3] http://sites.google.com/site/tdsvsfnm/home > > > -- "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan <>< -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100708/26b2684b/attachment.htm From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Jul 8 19:58:38 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 00:58:38 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <110074036-1278637126-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1586526576-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> For whatever its worth TDS bought Visi. With increased financial backing from TDS its helping them finish their Eden Prairie DC I guess. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: swede Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:35:58 To: Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 19 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 17:19:29 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:19:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness Message-ID: I'm using Ubuntu 9.10 and I have two big external USB HDDs connected to this one computer. I thought I'd copy about 70 GB of data from one to the other. This was a major problem -- it slowed the system to a crawl and it could only move about 100 MB per minute between the drives. It was going to take 12 hours to copy the files. Meanwhile I couldn't use the machine. So I killed the job half way through. Next I tried copying files from one HDD to a supercomputer on our University network. It copied 32.2 GB across the network in 85 minutes, so it was about 4 times as fast as copying from one drive to another on the same machine. Also, it had a minimal effect on my experience as a user while it was moving the files. Then I tried to copy the files from the remote machine back to the other external USB HDD. This was having a big impact on performance, but it was fairly fast -- the files were coming back at the same speed that they had gone out. Thus, this... External HDD #1 --> remote machine --> External HDD #2 ...was about twice as fast as this... External HDD #1 --> External HDD #2 There's something very wrong with a system that works that way. If I had enough space on my internal HDD, I'd do this and probably get even better results: External HDD #1 --> Internal HDD --> External HDD #2 Another crazy thing is that it must have been really killing my CPU because I could hardly do anything else while the drive-to-drive USB transfer was active, but programs like "ps aux" and "top" (both of which literally took minutes to launch) seemed to show that almost nothing was happening. Why is that? Mike From trnja001 at umn.edu Tue Jul 13 17:30:54 2010 From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:30:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For USB transfers, every read/write goes through the CPU so an external USB to another external USB doubles the CPU load. On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:19 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I'm using Ubuntu 9.10 and I have two big external USB HDDs connected to > this one computer. I thought I'd copy about 70 GB of data from one to the > other. This was a major problem -- it slowed the system to a crawl and it > could only move about 100 MB per minute between the drives. It was going > to take 12 hours to copy the files. Meanwhile I couldn't use the machine. > So I killed the job half way through. > > Next I tried copying files from one HDD to a supercomputer on our > University network. It copied 32.2 GB across the network in 85 minutes, > so it was about 4 times as fast as copying from one drive to another on > the same machine. Also, it had a minimal effect on my experience as a > user while it was moving the files. > > Then I tried to copy the files from the remote machine back to the other > external USB HDD. This was having a big impact on performance, but it was > fairly fast -- the files were coming back at the same speed that they had > gone out. > > Thus, this... > > External HDD #1 --> remote machine --> External HDD #2 > > ...was about twice as fast as this... > > External HDD #1 --> External HDD #2 > > There's something very wrong with a system that works that way. If I had > enough space on my internal HDD, I'd do this and probably get even better > results: > > External HDD #1 --> Internal HDD --> External HDD #2 > > > Another crazy thing is that it must have been really killing my CPU > because I could hardly do anything else while the drive-to-drive USB > transfer was active, but programs like "ps aux" and "top" (both of which > literally took minutes to launch) seemed to show that almost nothing was > happening. Why is that? > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From nesius at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 17:34:54 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:34:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Mike Miller > wrote: > > > Thus, this... > > External HDD #1 --> remote machine --> External HDD #2 > > ...was about twice as fast as this... > > External HDD #1 --> External HDD #2 > > There's something very wrong with a system that works that way. If I had > enough space on my internal HDD, I'd do this and probably get even better > results: > > External HDD #1 --> Internal HDD --> External HDD #2 > > > Another crazy thing is that it must have been really killing my CPU > because I could hardly do anything else while the drive-to-drive USB > transfer was active, but programs like "ps aux" and "top" (both of which > literally took minutes to launch) seemed to show that almost nothing was > happening. Why is that? > I think this is likely a case of bus-contention. Especially if the reads and writes were being sent through the same bus/controller. I've had similar issues when doing things with USB devices. Also were you doing your copies at the file system level (cp or drag-and-drop) or at the block/device (dd) level? If at the file system you're incurring overhead in allocating space within the file system and updating the filesystem structures. Depending on how many files you have - that can add up to a significant amount of overhead. -Rob > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100713/dcff6f57/attachment.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 17:49:41 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:49:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Elvedin Trnjanin wrote: > For USB transfers, every read/write goes through the CPU so an external > USB to another external USB doubles the CPU load. And with two cores, I use up both cores. That was what it felt like, but I'll tell you two weird things about it: (1) the ps aux and top output both showed no major CPU usage (2) it was almost as bad when downloading files to one of the two drives (3) uploading files from a drive had no major effect on user experience In other words, it was the writing to one drive that was killing me, not the reading from the other drive. I just tried downloading to the other drive. The experience was the same -- it was OK for 1-2 minutes and then the system slowed way, way down. So the problem is not with the one drive or the USB port it is connected to. I'm using scp for these downloads/uploads. I was using cp for the local copying. I was copying a fairly large number of medium-sized files (just a dozen megabytes, max, per file). Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 17:56:21 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:56:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> Thus, this... >> >> External HDD #1 --> remote machine --> External HDD #2 >> >> ...was about twice as fast as this... >> >> External HDD #1 --> External HDD #2 >> >> There's something very wrong with a system that works that way. If I had >> enough space on my internal HDD, I'd do this and probably get even better >> results: >> >> External HDD #1 --> Internal HDD --> External HDD #2 >> >> >> Another crazy thing is that it must have been really killing my CPU >> because I could hardly do anything else while the drive-to-drive USB >> transfer was active, but programs like "ps aux" and "top" (both of >> which literally took minutes to launch) seemed to show that almost >> nothing was happening. Why is that? > > I think this is likely a case of bus-contention. Especially if the > reads and writes were being sent through the same bus/controller. I've > had similar issues when doing things with USB devices. Maybe I would have better luck if I used a different pair of USB ports. I kinda doubt it because it seems like the big problem is with writes. Combining reading from one with writing to the other is definitely worse, but the major impact on system performance is coming from the writes. Maybe slowness of file transfers is an interaction of the two. > Also were you doing your copies at the file system level (cp or > drag-and-drop) or at the block/device (dd) level? It was "cp -irp dirs" and there were many subdirs and lots of little files. > If at the file system you're incurring overhead in allocating space > within the file system and updating the filesystem structures. > Depending on how many files you have - that can add up to a significant > amount of overhead. That sounds like part of the problem. Is there a better way to copy a collection of files and directories from one external USB HDD to another? I don't know how to do that with dd -- isn't that just for cloning? By the way, FYI, the data are raw intensity data for genotyping of 660,000 markers (SNPs and CNVs) for almost 5000 samples. Mike From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jul 14 05:26:05 2010 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 05:26:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:56 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness > > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Mike Miller > wrote: > >> > >> Thus, this... > >> > >> External HDD #1 --> remote machine --> External HDD #2 > >> > >> ...was about twice as fast as this... > >> > >> External HDD #1 --> External HDD #2 > >> > >> There's something very wrong with a system that works that > way. If I had > >> enough space on my internal HDD, I'd do this and probably get > even better > >> results: > >> > >> External HDD #1 --> Internal HDD --> External HDD #2 > >> > >> > >> Another crazy thing is that it must have been really killing my CPU > >> because I could hardly do anything else while the drive-to-drive USB > >> transfer was active, but programs like "ps aux" and "top" (both of > >> which literally took minutes to launch) seemed to show that almost > >> nothing was happening. Why is that? > > > > I think this is likely a case of bus-contention. Especially if the > > reads and writes were being sent through the same bus/controller. I've > > had similar issues when doing things with USB devices. > > Maybe I would have better luck if I used a different pair of USB ports. Random suggestions FWIW: When I bought some multi-port USB cards, I think I saw some products with open-source drivers. All I recall were very cheap. It should be possible to define a port-to-port transfer on some cards or perhaps a simple block-to/from-RAM DMA and FIFO controlled transfer about as fast as 100% of full USB speed. USB controller chips are suprisingg complex things: I think I recall reading about some complex block transfer protocols within the USB 2.0 spec, so a compliant chip might easily be told to stream from one port to another, using hardware flow-control and internal error protection. Sorry: not gung-ho enough to look this up again (it's a huge formal spec, and there are many cards and controller chips including some smart USB-enabled PIC cards, BASIC Stamp, etc). Possible/likely that some cards may advertise streaming or block functions as built-in ops! Chuck From nesius at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 09:51:08 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:51:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Mike Miller > wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > I think this is likely a case of bus-contention. Especially if the > > reads and writes were being sent through the same bus/controller. I've > > had similar issues when doing things with USB devices. > > Maybe I would have better luck if I used a different pair of USB ports. > I kinda doubt it because it seems like the big problem is with writes. > Combining reading from one with writing to the other is definitely worse, > but the major impact on system performance is coming from the writes. > Maybe slowness of file transfers is an interaction of the two. > > I was thinking about this some more last night and I wasn't completely happy with my hypothesis. I have actually noticed the "slowing down to a crawl" behavior when copying from an internal hard-drive to a USB2 drive myself. A system reboot and repeat attempt sailed through with no slowdown. I've always wondered about that - seems like our experiences point to the microcontroller or driver. What is the brand of your external drive? That sounds like part of the problem. Is there a better way to copy a > collection of files and directories from one external USB HDD to another? > I don't know how to do that with dd -- isn't that just for cloning? > Assuming your block-sizes are the same you can clone a smaller drive to a bigger drive with dd and use partition-managing software to grow the partition. I've never done that, but I'm pretty sure that's a way to do it. I'm also pretty sure someone else on the list can confirm or deny that. :) Lastly, when copying filesystems or very large directories, the key thing to remember for speeding things up is that you're better off doing intermediary transmissions as one huge bit-stream. So when I'm sending things over a network I tar things up into a compressed tarball - send the tarball, then extract the tarball on the other end - that can be faster than a straight rsync or network copy. I wouldn't think that necessary though with everything connected to the machine. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100714/6116432a/attachment-0001.htm From loren.cahlander at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:00:29 2010 From: loren.cahlander at gmail.com (Loren Cahlander) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:00:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? Message-ID: Hello, I am setting up a VMWare image with Ubuntu 10.04 and eXist http://exist-db.org installed. I am looking to add text to the desktop background image. Is there an easy way to do this? Thank you, Loren From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Jul 14 12:10:09 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:10:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I am setting up a VMWare image with Ubuntu 10.04 and eXist http://exist-db.org installed. I am looking to add text to the desktop background image. Is there an easy way to do this? I seem to recall programs that display text on the root window, but no idea if they'll work on gnome/kde/whatever kids are using nowadays. xtail maybe? If you're looking for static text, you might want to just edit the background image with GIMP or something. If you're looking for dynamic notifications, there are commandline utilities for libnotify. What exactly are you going for? -Yaron -- From jus at krytosvirus.com Wed Jul 14 12:16:31 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:16:31 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? Message-ID: <1113673075-1279127809-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-181333930-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Gimp or really any image editor can add text to an image. ------Original Message------ From: Loren Cahlander Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org To: TCLUG Mailing List ReplyTo: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? Sent: Jul 14, 2010 12:00 PM Hello, I am setting up a VMWare image with Ubuntu 10.04 and eXist http://exist-db.org installed. I am looking to add text to the desktop background image. Is there an easy way to do this? Thank you, Loren _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From andyzib at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 12:43:40 2010 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:43:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? In-Reply-To: <1113673075-1279127809-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-181333930-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1113673075-1279127809-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-181333930-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Are you looking for something like XOSD? http://www.ignavus.net/software.html http://ldots.org/xosd-guide/ -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 13:00:06 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:00:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: >>> >>> I think this is likely a case of bus-contention. Especially if the >>> reads and writes were being sent through the same bus/controller. >>> I've had similar issues when doing things with USB devices. >> >> Maybe I would have better luck if I used a different pair of USB ports. >> I kinda doubt it because it seems like the big problem is with writes. >> Combining reading from one with writing to the other is definitely >> worse, but the major impact on system performance is coming from the >> writes. Maybe slowness of file transfers is an interaction of the two. > > I was thinking about this some more last night and I wasn't completely > happy with my hypothesis. I have actually noticed the "slowing down to > a crawl" behavior when copying from an internal hard-drive to a USB2 > drive myself. A system reboot and repeat attempt sailed through with no > slowdown. I've always wondered about that - seems like our experiences > point to the microcontroller or driver. What is the brand of your > external drive? One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. I was having the same problem with either one. Check this out: $ uptime 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some big job. Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. Then I can test the file transfer speed again. >> That sounds like part of the problem. Is there a better way to copy a >> collection of files and directories from one external USB HDD to >> another? I don't know how to do that with dd -- isn't that just for >> cloning? > > Assuming your block-sizes are the same you can clone a smaller drive to > a bigger drive with dd and use partition-managing software to grow the > partition. I've never done that, but I'm pretty sure that's a way to do > it. I'm also pretty sure someone else on the list can confirm or deny > that. :) Thanks for the tip. I guess I won't be doing that, at least not now. > Lastly, when copying filesystems or very large directories, the key > thing to remember for speeding things up is that you're better off doing > intermediary transmissions as one huge bit-stream. So when I'm sending > things over a network I tar things up into a compressed tarball - send > the tarball, then extract the tarball on the other end - that can be > faster than a straight rsync or network copy. I wouldn't think that > necessary though with everything connected to the machine. Right. In the situation you describe, you have CPUs at both ends to deal with the overhead. Mike From bijoy.anose at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 13:07:33 2010 From: bijoy.anose at gmail.com (Bijoy Anose) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:07:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you're looking for an automated way to do this, say for a number of unique VMs, you probably want to look into the text overlay features of the ImageMagick command line. I'm assuming here that you want to permanently add text to the image that is your desktop wallpaper. -Bijoy On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Loren Cahlander wrote: > Hello, > > I am setting up a VMWare image with Ubuntu 10.04 and eXist http://exist-db.org installed. ?I am looking to add text to the desktop background image. ?Is there an easy way to do this? > > Thank you, > Loren > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ecrist at secure-computing.net Wed Jul 14 13:20:06 2010 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:20:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: > One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. I was having the same > problem with either one. Check this out: > > $ uptime > 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 > > I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some big > job. Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade > some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. Then I can > test the file transfer speed again. *cough* ecrist at puma:~-> uptime 1:15PM up 787 days, 3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. You know who you are, data center. Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a LUG list to see numbers that big. :P Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 box on a private LAN running internal software. Rest assured this box is on it's way out in the next 6 months. Anyone beat that? --- Eric Crist From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Wed Jul 14 13:45:18 2010 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:45:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Uptime kings - was: USB external drive slowness References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: <0000131625@mail.penguinpackets.com> ? > Wed Jul 14 2010 01:20:06 PM CDT from "Eric F Crist" > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] USB external drive >slowness > > *cough* > > ecrist at puma:~-> uptime > 1:15PM up 787 days, 3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 > > It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides >had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. You know who you >are, data center. Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a >LUG list to see numbers that big. :P > > Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 >box on a private LAN running internal software. Rest assured this box is on >it's way out in the next 6 months. > > Anyone beat that? > --- > Eric Crist > > > > Yep, probably same data center.... - Linux - Slackware :-) > > > > 13:40:42 up 802 days, 10:30,? 3 users,? load average: 0.84, 129, 2.03 > > > > > Yes, I have a spare power supply on hand!? Sorry about the html email >folks. > > > > > > Kelly > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100714/2e9b78b8/attachment.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 13:50:38 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:50:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Eric F Crist wrote: > On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: > >> One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. I was having the same >> problem with either one. Check this out: >> >> $ uptime >> 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 >> >> I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some >> big job. Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, >> upgrade some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. >> Then I can test the file transfer speed again. > > *cough* > > ecrist at puma:~-> uptime > 1:15PM up 787 days, 3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 > > It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides > had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. You know who > you are, data center. Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects > many on a LUG list to see numbers that big. :P > > Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 > box on a private LAN running internal software. Rest assured this box > is on it's way out in the next 6 months. > > Anyone beat that? OK, you win, but it isn't necessarily a good thing to have a long uptime. Some updates require rebooting. In fact, I would have liked to have rebooted in May and upgraded to Ubuntu 10.04 at that time. I don't think I have a security problem, though, because we have strict firewalls and only SSH comes through. I watch for security issues in SSH and I also use tcp wrappers to block SSH attempts from most domains, especially foreign countries. Mike From nesius at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 14:09:53 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:09:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: > On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: > > > One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. I was having the same > > problem with either one. Check this out: > > > > $ uptime > > 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 > > > > I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some > big > > job. Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade > > some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. Then I can > > test the file transfer speed again. > > *cough* > > ecrist at puma:~-> uptime > 1:15PM up 787 days, 3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 > > It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides > had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. You know who you > are, data center. Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a > LUG list to see numbers that big. :P > > Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 > box on a private LAN running internal software. Rest assured this box is on > it's way out in the next 6 months. > > Anyone beat that? > This reminded me of an anecdotal statistic. While in college only faculty and grad students had access to workstations on the network that they did not have to close their sessions on (This is pre-linux, you young whipper-snappers). As such it became some sort of a geek-bragging-right to have a shell that was idle for ridiculous amounts of time. It was like saying "I don't have to log out and I have so much computing power at my disposal I don't NEED that shell! In fact I have so many shells I've LOST that shell." So when I finally got my own workstation/office as a student intern I had an xterm that I very very carefully never typed in to let it's idle time climb up so that when people ran finger they could see one of my sessions was idle for MONTHS! I'd run the command myself sometimes and congratulate myself for being a made man, with my own ridiculously high idle-time shell. Yeah. My office mates even knew about my "special shell" that I was cultivating, and thus were immensely amused when I finally accidentally typed 'ls' in my super-idle shell one day. GAH! Anyway - you can all laugh at me now. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100714/a06ee985/attachment.htm From chrome at real-time.com Wed Jul 14 14:25:34 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:25:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: ; from nesius@gmail.com on Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 02:09:53PM -0500 References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: <20100714142534.G23043@real-time.com> On 07/14 02:09 , Robert Nesius wrote: > So when I finally got my own workstation/office as a student intern I had an > xterm that I very very carefully never typed in to let it's idle time climb > up so that when people ran finger they could see one of my sessions was idle > for MONTHS! I'd run the command myself sometimes and congratulate myself > for being a made man, with my own ridiculously high idle-time shell. Yeah. > My office mates even knew about my "special shell" that I was cultivating, > and thus were immensely amused when I finally accidentally typed 'ls' in my > super-idle shell one day. GAH! > Anyway - you can all laugh at me now. Cool anecdote. I presume you didn't have 'screen' back in those days? (How far back does 'screen' go anyway?) I do know of people who used to be proud of how many months/years they were logged into a machine via screen. Highest uptime record I've seen on a linux box was 1056 days. Customer didn't pay for patches, and amazingly the power company kept the power on that time (customer didn't pay for a UPS either). -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 14:26:01 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:26:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Uptime kings - was: USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: > This reminded me of an anecdotal statistic. While in college only > faculty and grad students had access to workstations on the network that > they did not have to close their sessions on (This is pre-linux, you > young whipper-snappers). As such it became some sort of a > geek-bragging-right to have a shell that was idle for ridiculous amounts > of time. It was like saying "I don't have to log out and I have so much > computing power at my disposal I don't NEED that shell! In fact I have > so many shells I've LOST that shell." > > So when I finally got my own workstation/office as a student intern I > had an xterm that I very very carefully never typed in to let it's idle > time climb up so that when people ran finger they could see one of my > sessions was idle for MONTHS! I'd run the command myself sometimes and > congratulate myself for being a made man, with my own ridiculously high > idle-time shell. Yeah. My office mates even knew about my "special > shell" that I was cultivating, and thus were immensely amused when I > finally accidentally typed 'ls' in my super-idle shell one day. GAH! > > Anyway - you can all laugh at me now. Geez -- I don't know what those old processes are doing... $ finger Login Name Tty Idle Login Time Office Office Phone mbmiller Mike Miller tty7 225d Dec 1 2009 (:0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/0 1d Dec 1 2009 (:0.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/1 Jun 14 00:51 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/2 28d Dec 1 2009 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/3 144d Dec 9 2009 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/4 1d May 1 20:22 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/5 40d Dec 14 2009 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/6 34d Dec 21 2009 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/7 41d Jan 4 2010 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/8 5:37 Feb 10 16:18 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/9 13d Jan 6 2010 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/10 21:54 Jan 14 16:48 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/11 125d Feb 16 14:44 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/12 33d Feb 24 14:09 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/13 15d Feb 26 11:19 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/14 89d Apr 10 01:01 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/15 76d Apr 24 15:11 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/16 33d Apr 28 14:29 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/18 5:32 May 24 19:16 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/19 12d Jun 3 03:35 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/20 1d Jun 16 16:48 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/21 5:38 Jun 18 02:58 (:1.0) mbmiller Mike Miller pts/22 9d Jul 3 20:04 (:1.0) Gotta clean that thing up! Mike From ecrist at secure-computing.net Wed Jul 14 14:30:02 2010 From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:30:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: <745DC891-E753-4EAB-B0D0-B5847590C5C1@secure-computing.net> On Jul 14, 2010, at 14:09:53, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: > On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: > > > One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. I was having the same > > problem with either one. Check this out: > > > > $ uptime > > 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 > > > > I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some big > > job. Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade > > some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. Then I can > > test the file transfer speed again. > > *cough* > > ecrist at puma:~-> uptime > 1:15PM up 787 days, 3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 > > It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. You know who you are, data center. Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a LUG list to see numbers that big. :P > > Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 box on a private LAN running internal software. Rest assured this box is on it's way out in the next 6 months. > > Anyone beat that? > > This reminded me of an anecdotal statistic. While in college only faculty and grad students had access to workstations on the network that they did not have to close their sessions on (This is pre-linux, you young whipper-snappers). As such it became some sort of a geek-bragging-right to have a shell that was idle for ridiculous amounts of time. It was like saying "I don't have to log out and I have so much computing power at my disposal I don't NEED that shell! In fact I have so many shells I've LOST that shell." > > So when I finally got my own workstation/office as a student intern I had an xterm that I very very carefully never typed in to let it's idle time climb up so that when people ran finger they could see one of my sessions was idle for MONTHS! I'd run the command myself sometimes and congratulate myself for being a made man, with my own ridiculously high idle-time shell. Yeah. My office mates even knew about my "special shell" that I was cultivating, and thus were immensely amused when I finally accidentally typed 'ls' in my super-idle shell one day. GAH! > > Anyway - you can all laugh at me now. Nowadays, we have things like screen that make this REALLY easy, you old-fogey. :P --- Eric Crist From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 15:22:28 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:22:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Uptime kings - was: USB external drive slowness In-Reply-To: <20100714142534.G23043@real-time.com> References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> <20100714142534.G23043@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Highest uptime record I've seen on a linux box was 1056 days. Customer > didn't pay for patches, and amazingly the power company kept the power > on that time (customer didn't pay for a UPS either). When I used to run Solaris I'd let it go at least that long except for the power outages, but the power outages always stopped me at some point. I think I went 18 months without one. How can I read the old Solaris wtmpx file now that I'm on a Linux box? I still have the old Solaris file. Mike From loren.cahlander at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 15:28:46 2010 From: loren.cahlander at gmail.com (Loren Cahlander) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:28:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? In-Reply-To: References: <1113673075-1279127809-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-181333930-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I think that that is what I am looking for. I know that in Windows, there is some feature to show system information on the desktop image. I will take a look at it. Thank you, Loren On Jul 14, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > Are you looking for something like XOSD? > > http://www.ignavus.net/software.html > > http://ldots.org/xosd-guide/ > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Wed Jul 14 19:48:40 2010 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:48:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <777706050.41776.1279154920480.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> The Windows application is called "BGInfo" or BackGround Info and still works quite well even on Windows Server 2008, ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loren Cahlander" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:28:46 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? I think that that is what I am looking for. I know that in Windows, there is some feature to show system information on the desktop image. I will take a look at it. Thank you, Loren On Jul 14, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > Are you looking for something like XOSD? > > http://www.ignavus.net/software.html > > http://ldots.org/xosd-guide/ > > -- > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 20:33:55 2010 From: blutgens at gmail.com (Ben) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:33:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? In-Reply-To: <777706050.41776.1279154920480.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <777706050.41776.1279154920480.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: http://conky.sourceforge.net/ this can be configured to look pretty much however you want. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 7:48 PM, wrote: > The Windows application is called "BGInfo" or BackGround Info and still > works quite well even on Windows Server 2008, > > ---------- > Todd Young > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loren Cahlander" > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:28:46 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How do I add text to the ubuntu desktop image? > > I think that that is what I am looking for. I know that in Windows, there > is some feature to show system information on the desktop image. > > I will take a look at it. > > Thank you, > > Loren > > On Jul 14, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote: > > > Are you looking for something like XOSD? > > > > http://www.ignavus.net/software.html > > > > http://ldots.org/xosd-guide/ > > > > -- > > Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us > > IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens Linux / Unix System Administror Three of your friends throw up after eating chicken salad. Do you think: "I should find more robust friends" or "we should check that refrigerator"? -- Donald Becker, on vortex-bug, suspecting a network-wide problem -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100714/e779966a/attachment.htm From dean at ripperd.com Wed Jul 14 21:31:15 2010 From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean E) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:31:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] uptime (was: USB external drive slowness) In-Reply-To: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> Message-ID: <4C3E72F3.2070806@ripperd.com> On 7/14/2010 1:20 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: > On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: > > >> One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. I was having the same >> problem with either one. Check this out: >> >> $ uptime >> 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 >> >> I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some big >> job. Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade >> some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. Then I can >> test the file transfer speed again. >> > *cough* > > ecrist at puma:~-> uptime > 1:15PM up 787 days, 3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 > > It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. You know who you are, data center. Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a LUG list to see numbers that big. :P > > Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 box on a private LAN running internal software. Rest assured this box is on it's way out in the next 6 months. > > Anyone beat that? > --- > Eric Crist > Not *nix, but 919 days on Cisco: PlymouthSNLAN>show version ......stuff snipped.... PlymouthSNLAN uptime is 2 years, 27 weeks, 14 hours, 18 minutes System returned to ROM by power-on This is an 1841 at a work site. I would expect others have much higher uptimes on Cisco though. From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Jul 14 21:38:55 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:38:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] uptime (was: USB external drive slowness) In-Reply-To: <4C3E72F3.2070806@ripperd.com> References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> <4C3E72F3.2070806@ripperd.com> Message-ID: You all are amateurs. I remember back in the day I had this VAX machine running VMS that was up for TEN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!! And don't even get me STARTED on the amount of uptime we used to get when we had to bang ROCKS together to get zeros and ones! Here's a hint, junior: the iPad is not the FIRST tablet! On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Dean E wrote: > > > On 7/14/2010 1:20 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: >> On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> >>> One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. I was having the same >>> problem with either one. Check this out: >>> >>> $ uptime >>> 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 >>> >>> I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some big >>> job. Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade >>> some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. Then I can >>> test the file transfer speed again. >>> >> *cough* >> >> ecrist at puma:~-> uptime >> 1:15PM up 787 days, 3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 >> >> It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. You know who you are, data center. Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a LUG list to see numbers that big. :P >> >> Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 box on a private LAN running internal software. Rest assured this box is on it's way out in the next 6 months. >> >> Anyone beat that? >> --- >> Eric Crist >> > > Not *nix, but 919 days on Cisco: > > PlymouthSNLAN>show version > ......stuff snipped.... > PlymouthSNLAN uptime is 2 years, 27 weeks, 14 hours, 18 minutes > System returned to ROM by power-on > > This is an 1841 at a work site. > > I would expect others have much higher uptimes on Cisco though. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From dniesen at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 21:54:22 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:54:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] uptime (was: USB external drive slowness) In-Reply-To: <4C3E72F3.2070806@ripperd.com> References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> <4C3E72F3.2070806@ripperd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Dean E wrote: > > > On 7/14/2010 1:20 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: >> On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> >>> One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. ?I was having the same >>> problem with either one. ?Check this out: >>> >>> $ uptime >>> ? 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, ?load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 >>> >>> I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some big >>> job. ?Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade >>> some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. ?Then I can >>> test the file transfer speed again. >>> >> *cough* >> >> ecrist at puma:~-> ?uptime >> ? 1:15PM ?up 787 days, ?3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 >> >> It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. ?You know who you are, data center. ?Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a LUG list to see numbers that big. :P >> >> Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 box on a private LAN running internal software. ?Rest assured this box is on it's way out in the next 6 months. >> >> Anyone beat that? >> --- >> Eric Crist >> > > Not *nix, but 919 days on Cisco: > > PlymouthSNLAN>show version > ......stuff snipped.... > PlymouthSNLAN uptime is 2 years, 27 weeks, 14 hours, 18 minutes > System returned to ROM by power-on > > This is an 1841 at a work site. > > I would expect others have much higher uptimes on Cisco though. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > It isn't Cisco but it is a whitebox Windows 2003 Server on a private LAN with no public services: System Uptime - 1281 day(s) 6 hour(s) 39 minute(s) Does that make this off-topic? -- Donovan Niesen From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Jul 15 07:28:00 2010 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 07:28:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] AC Adapter Message-ID: <20100715072800.54f9a1b0@sinkhole> Have an A/C adapter on an HP pavillion laptop that's gone bad (beeping at me - cord jiggling, smacking it not working). Anyone know if there's a local place where I could find a replacement? I can get one on eBay but won't be here till sometime next week. I got some universal adapter a while ago from Radioshack but it doesn't seem to work with this laptop. :/ Thanks, Josh From swaite at sbn-services.com Thu Jul 15 08:42:45 2010 From: swaite at sbn-services.com (Sean Waite) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:42:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] AC Adapter Message-ID: <1279201365.4c3f1055d5955@g3.sbn-services.com> If the laptop is a newer model produced with the last few years, then you can get HP replacement adapter at Best Buy. The sell what is essentially an HP "universal" that is compatible across numerous model lines using included adapter plugs. The best thing about them is last time I bought one it cost $35 vs. $80 for the direct part replacement. Go figure, same specs and everything. At Thursday, 15-07-2010 on 7:28 Josh Trutwin wrote: Have an A/C adapter on an HP pavillion laptop that's gone bad (beeping at me - cord jiggling, smacking it not working).??Anyone know if there's a local place where I could find a replacement???I can get one on eBay but won't be here till sometime next week. I got some universal adapter a while ago from Radioshack but it doesn't seem to work with this laptop.??:/ Thanks, Josh _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100715/d44f9b67/attachment.htm From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Jul 15 08:57:12 2010 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:57:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] AC Adapter In-Reply-To: <20100715072800.54f9a1b0@sinkhole> Message-ID: I have a HP F1781a used power module Accepts US or foreign AC line power and runs a laptop. Has US 2 prong AC connector. 19V 3.2A Runs HP Pavillion ZT-1000 series and many other HP models. Selling with port replicator (aka docking station): model F3494a Both for $30 Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Josh Trutwin > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:28 AM > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] AC Adapter > > > Have an A/C adapter on an HP pavillion laptop that's gone bad (beeping > at me - cord jiggling, smacking it not working). Anyone know if > there's a local place where I could find a replacement? I can get > one on eBay but won't be here till sometime next week. > > I got some universal adapter a while ago from Radioshack but it > doesn't seem to work with this laptop. :/ > > Thanks, > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From josh at trutwins.homeip.net Thu Jul 15 09:39:53 2010 From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:39:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] AC Adapter In-Reply-To: <1279201365.4c3f1055d5955@g3.sbn-services.com> References: <1279201365.4c3f1055d5955@g3.sbn-services.com> Message-ID: <20100715093953.61549bff@sinkhole> Is that the 90w smart-pin adapter? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/HP+-+Smart+90-Watt+AC+Adapter+for+Select+HP+and+Compaq+Laptops/8881695.p?id=1215216792308&skuId=8881695&st=90%20watt&cp=1&lp=2 Micro Center also has this for $80 :/ Josh On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:42:45 -0500 Sean Waite wrote: > If the laptop is a newer model produced with the last few years, > then you can get HP replacement adapter at Best Buy. The sell what > is essentially an HP "universal" that is compatible across numerous > model lines using included adapter plugs. The best thing about them > is last time I bought one it cost $35 vs. $80 for the direct part > replacement. Go figure, same specs and everything. > > At Thursday, 15-07-2010 on 7:28 Josh Trutwin wrote: > > Have an A/C adapter on an HP pavillion laptop that's gone bad > (beeping > at me - cord jiggling, smacking it not working).??Anyone know if > there's a local place where I could find a replacement???I can get > one on eBay but won't be here till sometime next week. > > I got some universal adapter a while ago from Radioshack but it > doesn't seem to work with this laptop.??:/ > > Thanks, > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 10:43:46 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:43:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] uptime (was: USB external drive slowness) In-Reply-To: References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net> <4C3E72F3.2070806@ripperd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: > It isn't Cisco but it is a whitebox Windows 2003 Server on a private LAN > with no public services: > > System Uptime - 1281 day(s) 6 hour(s) 39 minute(s) > > Does that make this off-topic? I didn't realize that a Windows OS existed that didn't need to be rebooted very week or so. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 10:50:10 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:50:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] AC Adapter In-Reply-To: <20100715072800.54f9a1b0@sinkhole> References: <20100715072800.54f9a1b0@sinkhole> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Josh Trutwin wrote: > Have an A/C adapter on an HP pavillion laptop that's gone bad (beeping > at me - cord jiggling, smacking it not working). Anyone know if there's > a local place where I could find a replacement? I can get one on eBay > but won't be here till sometime next week. > > I got some universal adapter a while ago from Radioshack but it doesn't > seem to work with this laptop. :/ This might not help you, but everyone should know that some newer adaptors and appliances are coming with a feature that is not well-advertised. It is that they need to be left unplugged sometimes for 30 minutes or so, then plugged back in. It's some kind of circuit breaker reset or something. The crazy thing is that I was sure my Asus adapter was bad. I looked on the web and many people were having exactly the same problem. It seemed that smacking it against a table cured it once. I was wrong. It wasn't the smacking it that helped, it was just leaving it unplugged long enough. That works every time. They don't tell you this in the manual and I didn't even find it on the web. Some people were returning them to Best Buy 2-3 times, but it was probably unnecessary. I also have a Cuisinart coffee maker that stopped working. I thought I had tried everything to bring it back to life. Then I unplugged it from the wall because I thought it was through. My wife plugged it back in the next day and it suddenly worked again. When it happened a second time, I knew what to do. I suppose it is a safety feature, but it would be nice if they'd give us a little warning on this kind of thing. Like I said, this might not help the OP, but maybe it will save someone else some trouble someday. Mike From thoth.serath at gmail.com Mon Jul 5 00:47:52 2010 From: thoth.serath at gmail.com (thoth.serath at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 05:47:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] OT: businesses in mn that sell money orders In-Reply-To: <4C315008.90705@meltel.net> References: <4C315008.90705@meltel.net> Message-ID: <13450980611278308872722@fastmobile.com> I use rainbow foods ----- Sent from my Boost. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tom Poe Subject: [tclug-list] OT: businesses in mn that sell money orders Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 22:22:48 -0500 Size: 3361 Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100705/b1c016f6/attachment.eml From thoth.serath at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 17:43:17 2010 From: thoth.serath at gmail.com (thoth.serath at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:43:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? In-Reply-To: <6A0A5037-D3FB-46A8-80A2-4AC1E06A77F1@me.com> References: <1278608525.4c36048d00e01@g3.sbn-services.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20100708124558.02562b20@pop.mm.com> <6A0A5037-D3FB-46A8-80A2-4AC1E06A77F1@me.com> Message-ID: <19608393091278715397714@fastmobile.com> Freegeek twincities ----- Sent from my Boost. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Ryan Coleman Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Free computer recycling? Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:19:00 -0500 Size: 4705 Url: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100709/09f1e36c/attachment.eml From jeremy at lizakowski.com Wed Jul 14 22:59:03 2010 From: jeremy at lizakowski.com (jeremy at lizakowski.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 03:59:03 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] uptime (was: USB external drive slowness) In-Reply-To: References: <87C6746E-5075-4DAE-81B2-B54B1335D8D8@secure-computing.net><4C3E72F3.2070806@ripperd.com> Message-ID: <1893952905-1279166345-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-845469560-@bda644.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I have an HP 48G that (I believe) hasn't lost its state since I got it in '94 or '95. Its not the same as uptime, per se, but its built pretty tough. it also has ridiculously low power consumption. Not as low as an abacus, but close :) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Donovan Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:54:22 To: TCLUG Mailing List Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] uptime (was: USB external drive slowness) On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Dean E wrote: > > > On 7/14/2010 1:20 PM, Eric F Crist wrote: >> On Jul 14, 2010, at 13:00:06, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> >>> One is Western Digital and the other is Samsung. ?I was having the same >>> problem with either one. ?Check this out: >>> >>> $ uptime >>> ? 12:54:24 up 224 days, 23:59, 23 users, ?load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.09 >>> >>> I really want to reboot this machine, but I'm always using it for some big >>> job. ?Probably within the next month or two I'll shut it down, upgrade >>> some components, install Ubuntu 10.04 and bring it back up. ?Then I can >>> test the file transfer speed again. >>> >> *cough* >> >> ecrist at puma:~-> ?uptime >> ? 1:15PM ?up 787 days, ?3:17, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.04, 0.07 >> >> It would have 1005 more days, but our data center where this box resides had a PDU failure which knocked out half the customers. ?You know who you are, data center. ?Oh, that's a FreeBSD box, so I don't suspects many on a LUG list to see numbers that big. :P >> >> Before you all jump on me for not having it updated, it's a FreeBSD 4.11 box on a private LAN running internal software. ?Rest assured this box is on it's way out in the next 6 months. >> >> Anyone beat that? >> --- >> Eric Crist >> > > Not *nix, but 919 days on Cisco: > > PlymouthSNLAN>show version > ......stuff snipped.... > PlymouthSNLAN uptime is 2 years, 27 weeks, 14 hours, 18 minutes > System returned to ROM by power-on > > This is an 1841 at a work site. > > I would expect others have much higher uptimes on Cisco though. > >_______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > It isn't Cisco but it is a whitebox Windows 2003 Server on a private LAN with no public services: System Uptime - 1281 day(s) 6 hour(s) 39 minute(s) Does that make this off-topic? -- Donovan Niesen _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Jul 16 15:14:27 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:14:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience Message-ID: I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... 16Mbit download -- pretty nice 600Kbit upload -- not so nice Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. -- Ryan From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Jul 16 15:51:02 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:51:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38948078-68B9-4871-95F1-1F1A35491377@me.com> Qwest's speed test just now: On FIOS: 16.64 Mbps down, 0.728 Mbps up. On Comcast: 24.89 down, 2.505 up. Speedtest.net's data from a server in Sioux Falls, SD On FIOS: 2.67Mbps down, .072 Mbps up. On Comcast: 25.71 Mbps down, 2.52 Mbps up. Unacceptable. On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... > > 16Mbit download -- pretty nice > 600Kbit upload -- not so nice > > Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. > > Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. > > -- > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dniesen at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 15:52:31 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:52:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... > > 16Mbit download -- pretty nice > 600Kbit upload -- not so nice > > Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. > > Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. > > -- > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Which package did you get? -- Donovan Niesen From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Jul 16 16:00:45 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:00:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. -- Ryan On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >> >> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >> >> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >> >> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > Which package did you get? > > -- > Donovan Niesen > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Jul 16 16:01:23 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:01:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5CA5D8A0-0F7C-40AF-BC99-D5B5F955E671@me.com> Here's that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fb4ZfZWfXE On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >> >> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >> >> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >> >> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > Which package did you get? > > -- > Donovan Niesen > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dniesen at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 16:21:28 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:21:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: I'll have to get my suppoed 40Mb/20Mb up tonight. I've been too lazy to set it up. I'll toss it back as well if the upload is not close to what is advertised. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. > > But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. > > -- > Ryan > On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>> >>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>> >>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>> >>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>> >>> -- >>> Ryan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> Which package did you get? >> >> -- >> Donovan Niesen >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jjensen at apache.org Fri Jul 16 20:35:13 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:35:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <38948078-68B9-4871-95F1-1F1A35491377@me.com> References: <38948078-68B9-4871-95F1-1F1A35491377@me.com> Message-ID: <002101cb2550$515f42c0$f41dc840$@org> What's the price diff like? -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:51 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience Qwest's speed test just now: On FIOS: 16.64 Mbps down, 0.728 Mbps up. On Comcast: 24.89 down, 2.505 up. Speedtest.net's data from a server in Sioux Falls, SD On FIOS: 2.67Mbps down, .072 Mbps up. On Comcast: 25.71 Mbps down, 2.52 Mbps up. Unacceptable. On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... > > 16Mbit download -- pretty nice > 600Kbit upload -- not so nice > > Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. > > Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. > > -- > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Jul 16 21:25:35 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 21:25:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <002101cb2550$515f42c0$f41dc840$@org> References: <38948078-68B9-4871-95F1-1F1A35491377@me.com> <002101cb2550$515f42c0$f41dc840$@org> Message-ID: <68E756B4-CA77-44A4-A5EE-B50D1020CAE3@me.com> $30 for the first 6 months; $70 for the modem or $8/month; $60 for cable. We have two lines (my old apartment modem runs my webservers, the other runs our personal traffic). So $120/month. For guaranteed speed. A combined 60Mbit down and 6 Mbit up. On Jul 16, 2010, at 8:35 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > What's the price diff like? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:51 PM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience > > Qwest's speed test just now: > On FIOS: 16.64 Mbps down, 0.728 Mbps up. > On Comcast: 24.89 down, 2.505 up. > > Speedtest.net's data from a server in Sioux Falls, SD > On FIOS: 2.67Mbps down, .072 Mbps up. > On Comcast: 25.71 Mbps down, 2.52 Mbps up. > > Unacceptable. > > On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into > my apartment... >> >> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >> >> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down > and 3Mbit up. >> >> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly > impossible, that's a shock. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From veganguy at canadaseek.com Fri Jul 16 14:22:16 2010 From: veganguy at canadaseek.com (Louis Miller) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:22:16 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] Hello Message-ID: <20100716122216.C012F17D@resin06.mta.everyone.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100716/d15706b3/attachment.htm From tclug at natecarlson.com Sat Jul 17 16:25:55 2010 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:25:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is ADSL2+. Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. > > But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. > > -- > Ryan > On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>> >>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>> >>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>> >>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>> >>> -- >>> Ryan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> Which package did you get? >> >> -- >> Donovan Niesen >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Jul 17 18:36:29 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:36:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: We've had this dicussion here already: it's FTTNode. On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest > advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that > they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is > ADSL2+. > > Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at > speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream > option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, > however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. > > As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real > fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with > various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. > > (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite > a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >> >> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>>> >>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>>> >>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>>> >>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> Which package did you get? >>> >>> -- >>> Donovan Niesen >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Jul 17 18:38:28 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:38:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It claims speeds that it is *not* producing. I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test providers, here are the results: Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 0.69 0.75 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. -- Ryan On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest > advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that > they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is > ADSL2+. > > Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at > speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream > option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, > however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. > > As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real > fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with > various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. > > (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite > a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >> >> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>>> >>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>>> >>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>>> >>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> Which package did you get? >>> >>> -- >>> Donovan Niesen >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100717/9c1b1e7a/attachment.htm From kc0iog at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 18:52:15 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:52:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Networking issue: what am I missing? Message-ID: I have encountered a networking issue that makes no sense. Anyone up for a challenge? Hardware: HP Pavilion desktop PC, onboard RTL NIC, Debian OS Netgear 16 port switch (old style Bay Networks variety) One month ago, HP was connected to said switch without issue. I've done some re-arranging and now the switch and HP are moved to another room, and all is re-connected. When I boot up the HP, I can't get a link light. No network access of any kind. Swapped the cable, same story. Tried another port, same story. All other hosts on the switch (there are 6 plus the uplink) are fine Installed an Intel 10/100 Pro NIC, same story Installed a 3com 3905B, same story OS issue? Booted Knoppix, same story. Plugged laptop into the same cable and into the switch. Works fine. Connected laptop to onboard NIC with crossover cable. WORKS! Connected 3C905B and onboard RTL NIC together with crossover. Works! Every piece of hardware in the equation has been tested and/or swapped. Everything works. Yet, when the HP wants to connect to the switch, regardless of which NIC goes to the switch, I can't get a link light. I am truly stumped. Any ideas? Brian From jima at beer.tclug.org Sat Jul 17 20:58:28 2010 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 20:58:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: <4C425FC4.5080002@beer.tclug.org> On 7/17/2010 6:38 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It > claims speeds that it is *not* producing. > > I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test > providers, here are the results: Congratulations, sir; you found a niche where HTML email performs really well: tabular data. Yes, I know you/your client also included a plaintext version with a fixed-font "table," but it ends up wide enough that it's problematic. I just saw the table and remembered the last discussion to that effect. Jima From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 21:30:45 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:30:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <4C425FC4.5080002@beer.tclug.org> References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <4C425FC4.5080002@beer.tclug.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Jima wrote: > Congratulations, sir; you found a niche where HTML email performs > really well: tabular data. Yes, I know you/your client also included a > plaintext version with a fixed-font "table," but it ends up wide enough > that it's problematic. > I just saw the table and remembered the last discussion to that effect. Right, but it didn't align well in Firefox, for some reason. I could almost read it. This can be done in ASCII too -- we can align columns. I suggest this perl script: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~kinzler/align/ I would also suggest that we transpose wide tables to make them narrow tables -- that table had only two rows. Mike From r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com Sun Jul 18 00:47:38 2010 From: r_a_wilkinson at yahoo.com (Robert) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 00:47:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] GPS for Ubuntu 10.04 laptop Message-ID: <1279432058.16420.8.camel@robert-desktop> Hi, I need GPS for my car, I'm going to do a lot of door to door driving in areas I'm not familiar with. I have never used GPS before so don't know what I need, but I understand I can get a usb antenna and download maps. If possible I would like turn by turn navigation. Any help with what I need and where to get or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bob From jeremy at jskier.com Sun Jul 18 12:58:44 2010 From: jeremy at jskier.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:58:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] GPS for Ubuntu 10.04 laptop In-Reply-To: <1279432058.16420.8.camel@robert-desktop> References: <1279432058.16420.8.camel@robert-desktop> Message-ID: <4C4340D4.8030704@jskier.com> GPS drive works well via a laptop in Linux: http://www.gpsdrive.de/ I also have an older USB GPS unit (Pharos based with Microsoft name on it- it will work in Linux and GPS Drive). If interested in purchasing real cheap contact me off list. A former employer used laptop based navigation in their vehicles, but it was Streets and Trips with a USB unit on the dash. It was a Windows only operation, but I must say, turn by turn worked very well with that setup. Plus the Sprint wifi gave up-to-date construction updates on the road. *Jeremy MountainJohnson* jeremy at jskier.com On 07/18/2010 12:47 AM, Robert wrote: > Hi, > > I need GPS for my car, I'm going to do a lot of door to door driving in > areas I'm not familiar with. > > I have never used GPS before so don't know what I need, but I understand > I can get a usb antenna and download maps. If possible I would like > turn by turn navigation. > > Any help with what I need and where to get or other suggestions would be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cwgriesel at gmail.com Sun Jul 18 14:36:40 2010 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:36:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Hello In-Reply-To: <20100716122216.C012F17D@resin06.mta.everyone.net> References: <20100716122216.C012F17D@resin06.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: Free Geek is slowly getting organized in the Twin Cities. Their website is freegeektwincities.org. As it says on the website, they currently meet Saturday afternoons at 821 E 35th St and are trying to get a new space ready down the street from there. I don't know the best email address for them, but you can call them at (612) 293-7339. They don't have an operating store yet but I'm sure they would accept help in setting one up. wrote: > > Hello, > > I'm new to the area. I just subscribed to the mailing list, and found out there is a freegeek. I looked at the website and couldn't find any contact information. Is it a store? Does the group post the meetings on the website or maybe send out an announcement on the announce mailing list. I subscribed to that one, too. Is this the right mailing list to ask general questions? > > Louis > > ________________________________ > Get email for your site ---> http://www.canadaseek.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100718/b717a0aa/attachment.htm From dniesen at gmail.com Sun Jul 18 15:45:56 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:45:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: Must definitely be ADSL as I finally terminated my "fiber" and am getting speeds of at least this: http://www.speedtest.net/result/883976525.png (36.43 Mb/s down - 9.30 Mb/s up for those who don't want to click) http://speedtest.popp.net yielded much better upload results at 37351 kbps / 16265 kbps The latency is comparable to what I have with Comcast but the jitter I've noticed, so far, is drastically reduced. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It claims > speeds that it is *not* producing. > > I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test > providers, here are the results: > > > Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports > toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com > Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up > Down Up Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 > 0.69 0.75 > 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 > 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 > 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 > > All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from > Kilobits per second. > > -- > Ryan > > On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > > Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest > advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that > they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is > ADSL2+. > > Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at > speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream > option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, > however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. > > As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real > fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with > various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. > > (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite > a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) > > On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. > > > But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up > and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the > reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem > reported 25+ Mbps on download. > > > -- > > Ryan > > On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into > my apartment... > > > 16Mbit download -- pretty nice > > 600Kbit upload -- not so nice > > > Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and > 3Mbit up. > > > Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly > impossible, that's a shock. > > > -- > > Ryan > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > Which package did you get? > > > -- > > Donovan Niesen > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Donovan Niesen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100718/00ff9036/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Sun Jul 18 22:34:49 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:34:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Networking issue: what am I missing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you tried connecting the HP to a different switch/device without using a crossover cable? -Rob On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Brian Wall wrote: > I have encountered a networking issue that makes no sense. Anyone up > for a challenge? > > Hardware: > HP Pavilion desktop PC, onboard RTL NIC, Debian OS > Netgear 16 port switch (old style Bay Networks variety) > > One month ago, HP was connected to said switch without issue. I've > done some re-arranging and now the switch and HP are moved to another > room, and all is re-connected. > When I boot up the HP, I can't get a link light. No network access of any > kind. > Swapped the cable, same story. > Tried another port, same story. > All other hosts on the switch (there are 6 plus the uplink) are fine > Installed an Intel 10/100 Pro NIC, same story > Installed a 3com 3905B, same story > OS issue? Booted Knoppix, same story. > Plugged laptop into the same cable and into the switch. Works fine. > Connected laptop to onboard NIC with crossover cable. WORKS! > Connected 3C905B and onboard RTL NIC together with crossover. Works! > > Every piece of hardware in the equation has been tested and/or > swapped. Everything works. Yet, when the HP wants to connect to the > switch, regardless of which NIC goes to the switch, I can't get a link > light. > > I am truly stumped. Any ideas? > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100718/1036810b/attachment-0001.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 00:21:21 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 00:21:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] GPS for Ubuntu 10.04 laptop In-Reply-To: <4C4340D4.8030704@jskier.com> References: <1279432058.16420.8.camel@robert-desktop> <4C4340D4.8030704@jskier.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > A former employer used laptop based navigation in their vehicles, but it > was Streets and Trips with a USB unit on the dash. It was a Windows only > operation, but I must say, turn by turn worked very well with that > setup. Coincidenally, just yesterday I was realizing that I have an old copy of that Streets & Trips program and I don't use Windows much, so I wondered if it would run under Wine. Has anyone tried it? Mike From jeremy at jskier.com Mon Jul 19 07:14:45 2010 From: jeremy at jskier.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 07:14:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] GPS for Ubuntu 10.04 laptop In-Reply-To: References: <1279432058.16420.8.camel@robert-desktop> <4C4340D4.8030704@jskier.com> Message-ID: <4C4441B5.2050900@jskier.com> What version is it? May guess is it would work over Wine, it's not a very complicated application. But then again, it is made by Micro$oft. In any case, annoying as this would be, it would definitely work over a virtual machine with XP. *Jeremy MountainJohnson* jeremy at jskier.com On 07/19/2010 12:21 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > >> A former employer used laptop based navigation in their vehicles, but it >> was Streets and Trips with a USB unit on the dash. It was a Windows only >> operation, but I must say, turn by turn worked very well with that >> setup. > Coincidenally, just yesterday I was realizing that I have an old copy of > that Streets& Trips program and I don't use Windows much, so I wondered > if it would run under Wine. Has anyone tried it? > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Jul 19 10:44:43 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:44:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS result Message-ID: I called Qwest and cancelled the account today. There were quite courteous with me about the whole deal and weren't vocally annoyed that I wasn't interested in scheduling a tech call to come and "fix" it. $30 for mediocre DSL vs. $60 for 30Mbit cable with 3Mbit upload? Hands down, cable wins. -- Ryan From tclug at natecarlson.com Mon Jul 19 10:52:43 2010 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:52:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: ..which is not FIOS. Just makes it more confusing to people who are trying to figure out which specific service you are trying to provide feedback on. It'd be much more helpful if you'd describe the two services as "Comcast [residential|business] cable internet at speed" and "Qwest ADSL at speed".. On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > We've had this dicussion here already: it's FTTNode. > > > On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >> ADSL2+. >> >> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >> >> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >> >> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >> >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >>> >>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >>> >>> -- >>> Ryan >>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>>>> >>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>>>> >>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>>>> >>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ryan >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> Which package did you get? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Donovan Niesen >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at natecarlson.com Mon Jul 19 10:57:20 2010 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:57:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: which speedtest engine is faulty? The rates that the providers quote for speeds (for ADSL at least) are the maximum rates that your line can sync up at. You may be sync'ing at that speed, or at lower speeds (your DSL modem/router should be able to show those stats.) Because of overheads, you will never get the exact speed they advertise - it will be slightly lower.. if you read the fine print it generally states that the speeds are maximum, not guaranteed, etc. I do agree that it looks like you are getting horrible speeds with Qwest - it could be a number of factors (ie, poor line conditions on your end, a dslam without enough backhaul connectivity, oversold connectivty at Qwest.net, etc); you could try a different ISP if you want to keep DSL (since you are on an ADSL tier you can pick your ISP), which would eliminate Qwest.net from the picture.. but from my view if you are happy with cable then keep it! :) On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It > claims speeds that it is *not* producing. > > I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test > providers, here are the results: > > Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com > > Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up > Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 0.69 0.75 > 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 > Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 > 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 > > All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. > > -- > Ryan > > On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >> ADSL2+. >> >> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >> >> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >> >> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >> >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >>> >>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >>> >>> -- >>> Ryan >>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>>>> >>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>>>> >>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>>>> >>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ryan >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> Which package did you get? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Donovan Niesen >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jeremy at jskier.com Mon Jul 19 11:10:31 2010 From: jeremy at jskier.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:10:31 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS result In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9e916aecd0745230cb7e7f1751fb48f3@jskier.com> Be careful with cancellation, I had a very bad experience with Qwest a few years back when I first tried DSL. Within a week I canceled and returned everything, but they kept billing me. So every month I called them they said it was taken care of each time. Then the collection notice came and I refused to hang up the phone until I got word from a supervisor that they would stop billing me for the week long trial I did months ago. Very very poor communication with their billing and sales staff. On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:44:43 -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I called Qwest and cancelled the account today. There were quite courteous > with me about the whole deal and weren't vocally annoyed that I wasn't > interested in scheduling a tech call to come and "fix" it. > > $30 for mediocre DSL vs. $60 for 30Mbit cable with 3Mbit upload? Hands > down, cable wins. > > -- > Ryan > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON jeremy at jskier.com From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Jul 19 11:14:58 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:14:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: <5038880D-099A-4CE5-B2F7-37114755B7BC@me.com> I ran this one: http://minneapolis.speedtest.qwest.net/ Which was what the technician ran that gave me the 16Mbps speed. As you can see in the data block there is only one other test provider that got that high: auditmypc.com. Comcast speeds Site Down Up Speedtest 22.01 2.66 Speakeasy 5.10 2.62 bandwidthpalce 12.23 2.35 auditmypc 20.87 3.51 internetfrog 5.09 1.53 DSLreports 22.15 2.55 toast.net 4.56 NA visualware.com 9.37 2.58 testinternetspeed 1.71 2.02 whatsmyip.com 20.67 2.46 AVG 12.38 2.48 Qwest SpeedTest 24.89 2.505 Diff -12.61 -0.25 -50.6% -0.99% speed loss. Qwest speeds Site Down Up Speedtest 2.59 0.72 Speakeasy 4.17 0.73 bandwidthpalce 2.67 0.70 auditmypc 18.26 0.76 internetfrog 0.80 0.60 DSLreports 2.88 0.69 toast.net 0.75 NA visualware.com 2.09 0.72 testinternetspeed 1.88 0.70 whatsmyip.com 6.62 0.71 AVG 4.27 0.70 Qwest SpeedTest 16.64 0.78 Diff -12.37 -0.08 -74.3% -10.3% speed loss. I hope this is more legible for you guys... I know the Comcast does "speed boost" bursting which can account for some of the fluctuation, but the DSL should be a steady, consistent speed. There was nothing else plugged into the DSL or Phone system except for the modem itself. It's not a perfect experiment - that would be a reboot of each system and waiting 30 minutes between tests, something that with 10 downloads to test would have taken days to complete. -- Ryan P.S. Nate - I know about overhead, even giving them 30-35% just to be nice; I've been a network technician for years in Windows, Mac and various flavors of *nix for the last ten years, and I was an early adopter of DSL in 1999. This is more a showing people my experiences with their "FIOS" connection which is a false advertising lead, IMHO, and fails to inform the consumer that the upload speeds are NOT proportional to the download speed. P.P.S. I ran the internet connection at my "office" aka cafe I like and they get 38.23 Mbit down and 7 Mbit up. Consistently. On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Nate Carlson wrote: > which speedtest engine is faulty? > > The rates that the providers quote for speeds (for ADSL at least) are the > maximum rates that your line can sync up at. You may be sync'ing at that > speed, or at lower speeds (your DSL modem/router should be able to show > those stats.) Because of overheads, you will never get the exact speed > they advertise - it will be slightly lower.. if you read the fine print it > generally states that the speeds are maximum, not guaranteed, etc. > > I do agree that it looks like you are getting horrible speeds with Qwest - > it could be a number of factors (ie, poor line conditions on your end, a > dslam without enough backhaul connectivity, oversold connectivty at > Qwest.net, etc); you could try a different ISP if you want to keep DSL > (since you are on an ADSL tier you can pick your ISP), which would > eliminate Qwest.net from the picture.. but from my view if you are happy > with cable then keep it! :) > > On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It >> claims speeds that it is *not* producing. >> >> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test >> providers, here are the results: >> >> Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com >> >> Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up >> Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 0.69 0.75 >> 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 >> Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 >> 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 >> >> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> >> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: >> >>> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >>> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >>> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >>> ADSL2+. >>> >>> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >>> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >>> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >>> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >>> >>> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >>> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >>> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >>> >>> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >>> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >>> >>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >>>> >>>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ryan >>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>>>>> >>>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>>>>> >>>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>>>>> >>>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ryan >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Which package did you get? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Donovan Niesen >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100719/47cb5cad/attachment-0001.htm From florin at iucha.net Mon Jul 19 10:54:42 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:54:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS result In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100719155442.GC2873@iris.iucha.org> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:44:43AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I called Qwest and cancelled the account today. There were quite > courteous with me about the whole deal and weren't vocally annoyed > that I wasn't interested in scheduling a tech call to come and "fix" > it. > > $30 for mediocre DSL vs. $60 for 30Mbit cable with 3Mbit upload? Hands down, cable wins. The 'Titanium+' is 12 Mbps down / 7 Mbps up for $70 a month. I have checked with a few 'speed test' sites and I'm getting fairly close to those speeds. FWIW this is for New Brighton / 55112. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100719/1eacee3e/attachment.pgp From florin at iucha.net Mon Jul 19 11:59:00 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:59:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Does AirLink101 AWLH5075 work with Linux? Message-ID: <20100719165900.GE2873@iris.iucha.org> Hello, Does anybody have any experience with using a AirLink101 AWLH5075 [1] with Linux? It seems they can be found for about $16, but I can't find any info on the chipset used or whether there are Linux drivers available for it. Thanks, florin 1: http://www.airlink101.com/products/awlh5075.php -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100719/02fe2162/attachment.pgp From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 12:08:15 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:08:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Networking issue: what am I missing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > Have you tried connecting the HP to a different switch/device without using > a crossover cable? That's my next test. I didn't have any spare switches handy this weekend, but I obtained a couple to try today. Brian From mailinglists at soul-dev.com Mon Jul 19 12:53:59 2010 From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:53:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Does AirLink101 AWLH5075 work with Linux? In-Reply-To: <20100719165900.GE2873@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100719165900.GE2873@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4C449137.5020304@soul-dev.com> http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=2 Ralink provides Linux drivers for the 3060 chipset (which is what you are looking at). It is also listed as supported in Ubuntu 10.04. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsWirelessNetworkCardsDlink Cheers! On 7/19/2010 11:59 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > Hello, > > Does anybody have any experience with using a AirLink101 AWLH5075 [1] > with Linux? It seems they can be found for about $16, but I can't > find any info on the chipset used or whether there are Linux drivers > available for it. > > Thanks, > florin > > 1: http://www.airlink101.com/products/awlh5075.php > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jeremy at jskier.com Mon Jul 19 13:11:30 2010 From: jeremy at jskier.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:11:30 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?Does_AirLink101_AWLH5075_work_with_Linux?= =?utf-8?q?=3F?= In-Reply-To: <4C449137.5020304@soul-dev.com> References: <20100719165900.GE2873@iris.iucha.org> <4C449137.5020304@soul-dev.com> Message-ID: <8f2fa0a1956182c21fd3467b7ec2d1df@jskier.com> I have used some of the earlier wireless G cards under the AirLink name (Ralink chipset) before, they have always worked very well in Linux. On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:53:59 -0500, "Mr. MailingLists" wrote: > http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=2 > > Ralink provides Linux drivers for the 3060 chipset (which is what you are > looking at). > > It is also listed as supported in Ubuntu 10.04. > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsWirelessNetworkCardsDlink > > Cheers! > > On 7/19/2010 11:59 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Does anybody have any experience with using a AirLink101 AWLH5075 [1] >> with Linux? It seems they can be found for about $16, but I can't >> find any info on the chipset used or whether there are Linux drivers >> available for it. >> >> Thanks, >> florin >> >> 1: http://www.airlink101.com/products/awlh5075.php >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list --- JEREMY MOUNTAINJOHNSON jeremy at jskier.com From tclug at natecarlson.com Mon Jul 19 13:54:20 2010 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:54:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: That is awesome! Could you post the latency to your next-hop? I'm tired of seeing 30ms+ latency to next-hop with ADSL and interleaving.. here's hoping VDSL is better. ;) (To confirm - your service is the new VDSL with 40mb/20mb, correct?) On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: > Must definitely be ADSL as I finally terminated my "fiber" and am > getting speeds of at least this: > > http://www.speedtest.net/result/883976525.png > > (36.43 Mb/s down - 9.30 > Mb/s up for those who don't want to click) > > http://speedtest.popp.net yielded much better upload results at 37351 > kbps / 16265 kbps > > The latency is comparable to what I have with Comcast but the jitter > I've noticed, so far, is drastically reduced. > > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It claims >> speeds that it is *not* producing. >> >> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test >> providers, here are the results: >> >> >> Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports >> toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com >> Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up >> Down Up Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 >> 0.69 0.75 >> 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 >> 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 >> 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 >> >> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from >> Kilobits per second. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> >> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: >> >> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >> ADSL2+. >> >> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >> >> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >> >> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >> >> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >> >> >> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up >> and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the >> reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem >> reported 25+ Mbps on download. >> >> >> -- >> >> Ryan >> >> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into >> my apartment... >> >> >> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >> >> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >> >> >> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and >> 3Mbit up. >> >> >> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly >> impossible, that's a shock. >> >> >> -- >> >> Ryan >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> Which package did you get? >> >> >> -- >> >> Donovan Niesen >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > -- > Donovan Niesen > From tclug at natecarlson.com Mon Jul 19 13:57:05 2010 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:57:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <5038880D-099A-4CE5-B2F7-37114755B7BC@me.com> References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <5038880D-099A-4CE5-B2F7-37114755B7BC@me.com> Message-ID: Ahhh, got'cha - so that points to the issue being with Qwest.net getting your traffic out of the area at a reasonable speed (if you get good speeds from that link, assuming it's actually doing a speedtest and not just looking at your account, it means that the chokepoint is behond that point..) On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > I ran this one: http://minneapolis.speedtest.qwest.net/ > > Which was what the technician ran that gave me the 16Mbps speed. As you > can see in the data block there is only one other test provider that got > that high: auditmypc.com. > > Comcast speeds > Site Down Up > Speedtest 22.01 2.66 > Speakeasy 5.10 2.62 > bandwidthpalce 12.23 2.35 > auditmypc 20.87 3.51 > internetfrog 5.09 1.53 > DSLreports 22.15 2.55 > toast.net 4.56 NA > visualware.com 9.37 2.58 > testinternetspeed 1.71 2.02 > whatsmyip.com 20.67 2.46 > AVG 12.38 2.48 > Qwest SpeedTest > 24.89 2.505 > Diff -12.61 -0.25 > -50.6% -0.99% speed loss. > > Qwest speeds > Site Down Up > Speedtest 2.59 0.72 > Speakeasy 4.17 0.73 > bandwidthpalce 2.67 0.70 > auditmypc 18.26 0.76 > internetfrog 0.80 0.60 > DSLreports 2.88 0.69 > toast.net 0.75 NA > visualware.com 2.09 0.72 > testinternetspeed 1.88 0.70 > whatsmyip.com 6.62 0.71 > AVG 4.27 0.70 > Qwest SpeedTest > 16.64 0.78 > Diff -12.37 -0.08 > -74.3% -10.3% speed loss. > > I hope this is more legible for you guys... I know the Comcast does "speed boost" bursting which can account for some of the fluctuation, but the DSL should be a steady, consistent speed. > > There was nothing else plugged into the DSL or Phone system except for the modem itself. It's not a perfect experiment - that would be a reboot of each system and waiting 30 minutes between tests, something that with 10 downloads to test would have taken days to complete. > > -- > Ryan > > P.S. Nate - I know about overhead, even giving them 30-35% just to be nice; I've been a network technician for years in Windows, Mac and various flavors of *nix for the last ten years, and I was an early adopter of DSL in 1999. This is more a showing people my experiences with their "FIOS" connection which is a false advertising lead, IMHO, and fails to inform the consumer that the upload speeds are NOT proportional to the download speed. > > P.P.S. I ran the internet connection at my "office" aka cafe I like and they get 38.23 Mbit down and 7 Mbit up. Consistently. > > > On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >> which speedtest engine is faulty? >> >> The rates that the providers quote for speeds (for ADSL at least) are the >> maximum rates that your line can sync up at. You may be sync'ing at that >> speed, or at lower speeds (your DSL modem/router should be able to show >> those stats.) Because of overheads, you will never get the exact speed >> they advertise - it will be slightly lower.. if you read the fine print it >> generally states that the speeds are maximum, not guaranteed, etc. >> >> I do agree that it looks like you are getting horrible speeds with Qwest - >> it could be a number of factors (ie, poor line conditions on your end, a >> dslam without enough backhaul connectivity, oversold connectivty at >> Qwest.net, etc); you could try a different ISP if you want to keep DSL >> (since you are on an ADSL tier you can pick your ISP), which would >> eliminate Qwest.net from the picture.. but from my view if you are happy >> with cable then keep it! :) >> >> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It >>> claims speeds that it is *not* producing. >>> >>> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test >>> providers, here are the results: >>> >>> Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com >>> >>> Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up >>> Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 0.69 0.75 >>> 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 >>> Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 >>> 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 >>> >>> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. >>> >>> -- >>> Ryan >>> >>> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: >>> >>>> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >>>> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >>>> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >>>> ADSL2+. >>>> >>>> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >>>> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >>>> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >>>> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >>>> >>>> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >>>> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >>>> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >>>> >>>> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >>>> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >>>> >>>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >>>>> >>>>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ryan >>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>>>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Which package did you get? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Donovan Niesen >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Jul 19 14:02:09 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:02:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <5038880D-099A-4CE5-B2F7-37114755B7BC@me.com> Message-ID: Precisely. I'm not willing to pay for a service that isn't up to snuff because of their hardware needing an upgrade. Qwest's installation technician and customer support we're more than cooperative with this tech's findings. On Jul 19, 2010, at 1:57 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > Ahhh, got'cha - so that points to the issue being with Qwest.net getting > your traffic out of the area at a reasonable speed (if you get good speeds > from that link, assuming it's actually doing a speedtest and not just > looking at your account, it means that the chokepoint is behond that > point..) > > On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I ran this one: http://minneapolis.speedtest.qwest.net/ >> >> Which was what the technician ran that gave me the 16Mbps speed. As you >> can see in the data block there is only one other test provider that got >> that high: auditmypc.com. >> >> Comcast speeds >> Site Down Up >> Speedtest 22.01 2.66 >> Speakeasy 5.10 2.62 >> bandwidthpalce 12.23 2.35 >> auditmypc 20.87 3.51 >> internetfrog 5.09 1.53 >> DSLreports 22.15 2.55 >> toast.net 4.56 NA >> visualware.com 9.37 2.58 >> testinternetspeed 1.71 2.02 >> whatsmyip.com 20.67 2.46 >> AVG 12.38 2.48 >> Qwest SpeedTest >> 24.89 2.505 >> Diff -12.61 -0.25 >> -50.6% -0.99% speed loss. >> >> Qwest speeds >> Site Down Up >> Speedtest 2.59 0.72 >> Speakeasy 4.17 0.73 >> bandwidthpalce 2.67 0.70 >> auditmypc 18.26 0.76 >> internetfrog 0.80 0.60 >> DSLreports 2.88 0.69 >> toast.net 0.75 NA >> visualware.com 2.09 0.72 >> testinternetspeed 1.88 0.70 >> whatsmyip.com 6.62 0.71 >> AVG 4.27 0.70 >> Qwest SpeedTest >> 16.64 0.78 >> Diff -12.37 -0.08 >> -74.3% -10.3% speed loss. >> >> I hope this is more legible for you guys... I know the Comcast does "speed boost" bursting which can account for some of the fluctuation, but the DSL should be a steady, consistent speed. >> >> There was nothing else plugged into the DSL or Phone system except for the modem itself. It's not a perfect experiment - that would be a reboot of each system and waiting 30 minutes between tests, something that with 10 downloads to test would have taken days to complete. >> >> -- >> Ryan >> >> P.S. Nate - I know about overhead, even giving them 30-35% just to be nice; I've been a network technician for years in Windows, Mac and various flavors of *nix for the last ten years, and I was an early adopter of DSL in 1999. This is more a showing people my experiences with their "FIOS" connection which is a false advertising lead, IMHO, and fails to inform the consumer that the upload speeds are NOT proportional to the download speed. >> >> P.P.S. I ran the internet connection at my "office" aka cafe I like and they get 38.23 Mbit down and 7 Mbit up. Consistently. >> >> >> On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Nate Carlson wrote: >> >>> which speedtest engine is faulty? >>> >>> The rates that the providers quote for speeds (for ADSL at least) are the >>> maximum rates that your line can sync up at. You may be sync'ing at that >>> speed, or at lower speeds (your DSL modem/router should be able to show >>> those stats.) Because of overheads, you will never get the exact speed >>> they advertise - it will be slightly lower.. if you read the fine print it >>> generally states that the speeds are maximum, not guaranteed, etc. >>> >>> I do agree that it looks like you are getting horrible speeds with Qwest - >>> it could be a number of factors (ie, poor line conditions on your end, a >>> dslam without enough backhaul connectivity, oversold connectivty at >>> Qwest.net, etc); you could try a different ISP if you want to keep DSL >>> (since you are on an ADSL tier you can pick your ISP), which would >>> eliminate Qwest.net from the picture.. but from my view if you are happy >>> with cable then keep it! :) >>> >>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It >>>> claims speeds that it is *not* producing. >>>> >>>> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test >>>> providers, here are the results: >>>> >>>> Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com >>>> >>>> Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up >>>> Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 0.69 0.75 >>>> 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 >>>> Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 >>>> 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 >>>> >>>> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: >>>> >>>>> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >>>>> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >>>>> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >>>>> ADSL2+. >>>>> >>>>> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >>>>> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >>>>> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >>>>> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >>>>> >>>>> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >>>>> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >>>>> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >>>>> >>>>> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >>>>> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ryan >>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>>>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>>>>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Ryan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which package did you get? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Donovan Niesen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dniesen at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 14:08:53 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:08:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. 0.742 ms 20.45 ms 20.586 ms 207.225.140.233 (207.225.140.233) Looks like less than 30 to me. That was from the DSL modem itself, from my workstation it was 21ms On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > That is awesome! Could you post the latency to your next-hop? I'm tired of > seeing 30ms+ latency to next-hop with ADSL and interleaving.. here's > hoping VDSL is better. ?;) > > (To confirm - your service is the new VDSL with 40mb/20mb, correct?) > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: >> Must definitely be ADSL as I finally terminated my "fiber" and am >> getting speeds of at least this: >> >> http://www.speedtest.net/result/883976525.png >> >> (36.43 Mb/s down - 9.30 >> Mb/s up for those who don't want to click) >> >> http://speedtest.popp.net yielded much better upload results at 37351 >> kbps / 16265 kbps >> >> The latency is comparable to what I have with Comcast but the jitter >> I've noticed, so far, is drastically reduced. >> >> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It claims >>> speeds that it is *not* producing. >>> >>> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test >>> providers, here are the results: >>> >>> >>> Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports >>> toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com >>> Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up >>> Down Up ?Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 >>> 0.69 0.75 >>> 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 ?Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 >>> 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 >>> 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 >>> >>> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from >>> Kilobits per second. >>> >>> -- >>> Ryan >>> >>> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: >>> >>> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >>> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >>> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >>> ADSL2+. >>> >>> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >>> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >>> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >>> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >>> >>> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >>> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >>> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >>> >>> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >>> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >>> >>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> >>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >>> >>> >>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up >>> and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the >>> reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem >>> reported 25+ Mbps on download. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> >>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into >>> my apartment... >>> >>> >>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >>> >>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >>> >>> >>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and >>> 3Mbit up. >>> >>> >>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly >>> impossible, that's a shock. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> Which package did you get? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Donovan Niesen >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Donovan Niesen >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Donovan Niesen From florin at iucha.net Mon Jul 19 14:31:25 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:31:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: <20100719193125.GK2873@iris.iucha.org> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 01:54:20PM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote: > That is awesome! Could you post the latency to your next-hop? I'm tired of > seeing 30ms+ latency to next-hop with ADSL and interleaving.. here's > hoping VDSL is better. ;) [florin at iris ~]$ cat /etc/resolv.conf nameserver 205.171.3.25 nameserver 205.171.2.25 [florin at iris ~]$ ping 205.171.3.25 PING 205.171.3.25 (205.171.3.25) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 205.171.3.25: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=20.5 ms 64 bytes from 205.171.3.25: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=20.7 ms 64 bytes from 205.171.3.25: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=20.8 ms --- 205.171.3.25 ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2002ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 20.500/20.713/20.848/0.152 ms [florin at iris ~]$ ping 205.171.2.25 PING 205.171.2.25 (205.171.2.25) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 205.171.2.25: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=20.7 ms 64 bytes from 205.171.2.25: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=21.0 ms 64 bytes from 205.171.2.25: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=20.9 ms 64 bytes from 205.171.2.25: icmp_seq=4 ttl=60 time=20.4 ms --- 205.171.2.25 ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2999ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 20.465/20.791/21.094/0.254 ms [root at iris shorewall]# traceroute 205.171.3.25 traceroute to 205.171.3.25 (205.171.3.25), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 0.600 ms 0.280 ms 0.241 ms 2 mpls-dsl-gw46-238.mpls.qwest.net (207.225.140.238) 20.795 ms 20.828 ms 20.847 ms 3 mpls-agw1.inet.qwest.net (75.168.229.105) 20.908 ms 20.814 ms 21.430 ms 4 min-core-01.inet.qwest.net (67.14.21.110) 22.021 ms 22.036 ms 22.063 ms 5 resolver.qwest.net (205.171.3.25) 22.113 ms 22.130 ms 22.230 ms [root at iris shorewall]# traceroute 205.171.2.25 traceroute to 205.171.2.25 (205.171.2.25), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 0.418 ms 0.398 ms 0.475 ms 2 mpls-dsl-gw46-238.mpls.qwest.net (207.225.140.238) 20.750 ms 21.114 ms 21.129 ms 3 mpls-agw1.inet.qwest.net (75.168.229.105) 21.243 ms 20.613 ms 20.689 ms 4 min-core-01.inet.qwest.net (67.14.21.110) 20.658 ms 20.655 ms 20.777 ms 5 resolver.qwest.net (205.171.2.25) 21.268 ms 21.287 ms 21.540 ms Not bad... florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100719/912595e2/attachment.pgp From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Mon Jul 19 15:02:19 2010 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:02:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <5038880D-099A-4CE5-B2F7-37114755B7BC@me.com> Message-ID: <20100719200217.GA16965@weegee.ath.cx> Excuse me if this was already mentioned, but I deleted a bunch of messages from this thread earlier. Is there some way to find out if Qwest has VDSL in Eagan yet? -Adam On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 02:02:09PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Precisely. I'm not willing to pay for a service that isn't up to snuff because of their hardware needing an upgrade. > > Qwest's installation technician and customer support we're more than cooperative with this tech's findings. > > On Jul 19, 2010, at 1:57 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > > > Ahhh, got'cha - so that points to the issue being with Qwest.net getting > > your traffic out of the area at a reasonable speed (if you get good speeds > > from that link, assuming it's actually doing a speedtest and not just > > looking at your account, it means that the chokepoint is behond that > > point..) > > > > On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> I ran this one: http://minneapolis.speedtest.qwest.net/ > >> > >> Which was what the technician ran that gave me the 16Mbps speed. As you > >> can see in the data block there is only one other test provider that got > >> that high: auditmypc.com. > >> > >> Comcast speeds > >> Site Down Up > >> Speedtest 22.01 2.66 > >> Speakeasy 5.10 2.62 > >> bandwidthpalce 12.23 2.35 > >> auditmypc 20.87 3.51 > >> internetfrog 5.09 1.53 > >> DSLreports 22.15 2.55 > >> toast.net 4.56 NA > >> visualware.com 9.37 2.58 > >> testinternetspeed 1.71 2.02 > >> whatsmyip.com 20.67 2.46 > >> AVG 12.38 2.48 > >> Qwest SpeedTest > >> 24.89 2.505 > >> Diff -12.61 -0.25 > >> -50.6% -0.99% speed loss. > >> > >> Qwest speeds > >> Site Down Up > >> Speedtest 2.59 0.72 > >> Speakeasy 4.17 0.73 > >> bandwidthpalce 2.67 0.70 > >> auditmypc 18.26 0.76 > >> internetfrog 0.80 0.60 > >> DSLreports 2.88 0.69 > >> toast.net 0.75 NA > >> visualware.com 2.09 0.72 > >> testinternetspeed 1.88 0.70 > >> whatsmyip.com 6.62 0.71 > >> AVG 4.27 0.70 > >> Qwest SpeedTest > >> 16.64 0.78 > >> Diff -12.37 -0.08 > >> -74.3% -10.3% speed loss. > >> > >> I hope this is more legible for you guys... I know the Comcast does "speed boost" bursting which can account for some of the fluctuation, but the DSL should be a steady, consistent speed. > >> > >> There was nothing else plugged into the DSL or Phone system except for the modem itself. It's not a perfect experiment - that would be a reboot of each system and waiting 30 minutes between tests, something that with 10 downloads to test would have taken days to complete. > >> > >> -- > >> Ryan > >> > >> P.S. Nate - I know about overhead, even giving them 30-35% just to be nice; I've been a network technician for years in Windows, Mac and various flavors of *nix for the last ten years, and I was an early adopter of DSL in 1999. This is more a showing people my experiences with their "FIOS" connection which is a false advertising lead, IMHO, and fails to inform the consumer that the upload speeds are NOT proportional to the download speed. > >> > >> P.P.S. I ran the internet connection at my "office" aka cafe I like and they get 38.23 Mbit down and 7 Mbit up. Consistently. > >> > >> > >> On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >> > >>> which speedtest engine is faulty? > >>> > >>> The rates that the providers quote for speeds (for ADSL at least) are the > >>> maximum rates that your line can sync up at. You may be sync'ing at that > >>> speed, or at lower speeds (your DSL modem/router should be able to show > >>> those stats.) Because of overheads, you will never get the exact speed > >>> they advertise - it will be slightly lower.. if you read the fine print it > >>> generally states that the speeds are maximum, not guaranteed, etc. > >>> > >>> I do agree that it looks like you are getting horrible speeds with Qwest - > >>> it could be a number of factors (ie, poor line conditions on your end, a > >>> dslam without enough backhaul connectivity, oversold connectivty at > >>> Qwest.net, etc); you could try a different ISP if you want to keep DSL > >>> (since you are on an ADSL tier you can pick your ISP), which would > >>> eliminate Qwest.net from the picture.. but from my view if you are happy > >>> with cable then keep it! :) > >>> > >>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>>> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It > >>>> claims speeds that it is *not* producing. > >>>> > >>>> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test > >>>> providers, here are the results: > >>>> > >>>> Speedtest Speakeasy bandwidthplace auditmypc.com internetfrog DSLreports toast.net visualware.com testinternetspeed whatsmyip.com > >>>> > >>>> Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up > >>>> Qwest 2.59 0.72 4.17 0.73 2.67 0.70 18.26 0.76 0.80 0.60 2.88 0.69 0.75 > >>>> 2.09 0.72 1.88 0.70 6.62 0.71 > >>>> Comcast 22.01 2.66 5.10 2.62 12.23 2.35 20.87 3.51 5.09 1.53 22.15 2.55 4.56 > >>>> 9.37 2.58 1.71 2.02 20.67 2.46 > >>>> > >>>> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Ryan > >>>> > >>>> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest > >>>>> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that > >>>>> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is > >>>>> ADSL2+. > >>>>> > >>>>> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at > >>>>> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream > >>>>> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, > >>>>> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. > >>>>> > >>>>> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real > >>>>> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with > >>>>> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. > >>>>> > >>>>> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite > >>>>> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>>>>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Ryan > >>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >>>>>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice > >>>>>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Ryan > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Which package did you get? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Donovan Niesen > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dniesen at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 15:40:35 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:40:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <20100719200217.GA16965@weegee.ath.cx> References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <5038880D-099A-4CE5-B2F7-37114755B7BC@me.com> <20100719200217.GA16965@weegee.ath.cx> Message-ID: http://www.qwest.com/#offers Put in your phone number and see if they offer you the 40Mb/20Mb service. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Adam Morris wrote: > Excuse me if this was already mentioned, but I deleted a bunch of messages from this thread earlier. ?Is there some way to find out if Qwest has VDSL in Eagan yet? > > -Adam > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 02:02:09PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> Precisely. I'm not willing to pay for a service that isn't up to snuff because of their hardware needing an upgrade. >> >> Qwest's installation technician and customer support we're more than cooperative with this tech's findings. >> >> On Jul 19, 2010, at 1:57 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: >> >> > Ahhh, got'cha - so that points to the issue being with Qwest.net getting >> > your traffic out of the area at a reasonable speed (if you get good speeds >> > from that link, assuming it's actually doing a speedtest and not just >> > looking at your account, it means that the chokepoint is behond that >> > point..) >> > >> > On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> I ran this one: http://minneapolis.speedtest.qwest.net/ >> >> >> >> Which was what the technician ran that gave me the 16Mbps speed. As you >> >> can see in the data block there is only one other test provider that got >> >> that high: auditmypc.com. >> >> >> >> Comcast speeds >> >> Site ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Down ? ?Up >> >> Speedtest ? ? ? ? ?22.01 ? 2.66 >> >> Speakeasy ? ? ? ? ?5.10 ? ?2.62 >> >> bandwidthpalce ? ? 12.23 ? 2.35 >> >> auditmypc ? ? ? ? ?20.87 ? 3.51 >> >> internetfrog ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 5.09 ? ?1.53 >> >> DSLreports ? ? ? ? 22.15 ? 2.55 >> >> toast.net ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4.56 ? ?NA >> >> visualware.com ? ? 9.37 ? ?2.58 >> >> testinternetspeed ?1.71 ? ?2.02 >> >> whatsmyip.com ? ? ?20.67 ? 2.46 >> >> AVG ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?12.38 ? 2.48 >> >> Qwest SpeedTest >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?24.89 ? 2.505 >> >> Diff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -12.61 ?-0.25 >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-50.6% ?-0.99% speed loss. >> >> >> >> Qwest speeds >> >> Site ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Down ? ?Up >> >> Speedtest ? ? ? ? ?2.59 ? ?0.72 >> >> Speakeasy ? ? ? ? ?4.17 ? ?0.73 >> >> bandwidthpalce ? ? 2.67 ? ?0.70 >> >> auditmypc ? ? ? ? ?18.26 ? 0.76 >> >> internetfrog ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0.80 ? ?0.60 >> >> DSLreports ? ? ? ? 2.88 ? ?0.69 >> >> toast.net ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.75 ? ?NA >> >> visualware.com ? ? 2.09 ? ?0.72 >> >> testinternetspeed ?1.88 ? ?0.70 >> >> whatsmyip.com ? ? ?6.62 ? ?0.71 >> >> AVG ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4.27 ? ?0.70 >> >> Qwest SpeedTest >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?16.64 ? 0.78 >> >> Diff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -12.37 ?-0.08 >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-74.3% ?-10.3% speed loss. >> >> >> >> I hope this is more legible for you guys... ?I know the Comcast does "speed boost" bursting which can account for some of the fluctuation, but the DSL should be a steady, consistent speed. >> >> >> >> There was nothing else plugged into the DSL or Phone system except for the modem itself. It's not a perfect experiment - that would be a reboot of each system and waiting 30 minutes between tests, something that with 10 downloads to test would have taken days to complete. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Ryan >> >> >> >> P.S. Nate - I know about overhead, even giving them 30-35% just to be nice; I've been a network technician for years in Windows, Mac and various flavors of *nix for the last ten years, and I was an early adopter of DSL in 1999. This is more a showing people my experiences with their "FIOS" connection which is a false advertising lead, IMHO, and fails to inform the consumer that the upload speeds are NOT proportional to the download speed. >> >> >> >> P.P.S. I ran the internet connection at my "office" aka cafe I like and they get 38.23 Mbit down and 7 Mbit up. Consistently. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Nate Carlson wrote: >> >> >> >>> which speedtest engine is faulty? >> >>> >> >>> The rates that the providers quote for speeds (for ADSL at least) are the >> >>> maximum rates that your line can sync up at. You may be sync'ing at that >> >>> speed, or at lower speeds (your DSL modem/router should be able to show >> >>> those stats.) Because of overheads, you will never get the exact speed >> >>> they advertise - it will be slightly lower.. if you read the fine print it >> >>> generally states that the speeds are maximum, not guaranteed, etc. >> >>> >> >>> I do agree that it looks like you are getting horrible speeds with Qwest - >> >>> it could be a number of factors (ie, poor line conditions on your end, a >> >>> dslam without enough backhaul connectivity, oversold connectivty at >> >>> Qwest.net, etc); you could try a different ISP if you want to keep DSL >> >>> (since you are on an ADSL tier you can pick your ISP), which would >> >>> eliminate Qwest.net from the picture.. but from my view if you are happy >> >>> with cable then keep it! ?:) >> >>> >> >>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>>> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It >> >>>> claims speeds that it is *not* producing. >> >>>> >> >>>> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test >> >>>> providers, here are the results: >> >>>> >> >>>> Speedtest ? ? ? ?Speakeasy ? ? ? bandwidthplace ?auditmypc.com ? internetfrog ? ?DSLreports ? ? ?toast.net ? ? ? visualware.com ?testinternetspeed ? ? ? whatsmyip.com >> >>>> >> >>>> Down ? ? Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up >> >>>> Qwest ? ?2.59 ? ?0.72 ? ?4.17 ? ?0.73 ? ?2.67 ? ?0.70 ? ?18.26 ? 0.76 ? ?0.80 ? ?0.60 ? ?2.88 ? ?0.69 ? ?0.75 >> >>>> 2.09 ? ? 0.72 ? ?1.88 ? ?0.70 ? ?6.62 ? ?0.71 >> >>>> Comcast ?22.01 ? 2.66 ? ?5.10 ? ?2.62 ? ?12.23 ? 2.35 ? ?20.87 ? 3.51 ? ?5.09 ? ?1.53 ? ?22.15 ? 2.55 ? ?4.56 >> >>>> 9.37 ? ? 2.58 ? ?1.71 ? ?2.02 ? ?20.67 ? 2.46 >> >>>> >> >>>> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Ryan >> >>>> >> >>>> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest >> >>>>> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that >> >>>>> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is >> >>>>> ADSL2+. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at >> >>>>> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream >> >>>>> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, >> >>>>> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real >> >>>>> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with >> >>>>> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite >> >>>>> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>>>>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> Ryan >> >>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>>>>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice >> >>>>>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>>> Ryan >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Which package did you get? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>> Donovan Niesen >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Donovan Niesen From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Mon Jul 19 17:06:19 2010 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:06:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <5038880D-099A-4CE5-B2F7-37114755B7BC@me.com> <20100719200217.GA16965@weegee.ath.cx> Message-ID: <20100719220618.GB16965@weegee.ath.cx> Ahh yeah, no dice. Guess I'll have to keep my eyes peeled. -Adam On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 03:40:35PM -0500, Donovan wrote: > http://www.qwest.com/#offers > > Put in your phone number and see if they offer you the 40Mb/20Mb service. > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Adam Morris > wrote: > > Excuse me if this was already mentioned, but I deleted a bunch of messages from this thread earlier. ?Is there some way to find out if Qwest has VDSL in Eagan yet? > > > > -Adam > > > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 02:02:09PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> Precisely. I'm not willing to pay for a service that isn't up to snuff because of their hardware needing an upgrade. > >> > >> Qwest's installation technician and customer support we're more than cooperative with this tech's findings. > >> > >> On Jul 19, 2010, at 1:57 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >> > >> > Ahhh, got'cha - so that points to the issue being with Qwest.net getting > >> > your traffic out of the area at a reasonable speed (if you get good speeds > >> > from that link, assuming it's actually doing a speedtest and not just > >> > looking at your account, it means that the chokepoint is behond that > >> > point..) > >> > > >> > On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> >> I ran this one: http://minneapolis.speedtest.qwest.net/ > >> >> > >> >> Which was what the technician ran that gave me the 16Mbps speed. As you > >> >> can see in the data block there is only one other test provider that got > >> >> that high: auditmypc.com. > >> >> > >> >> Comcast speeds > >> >> Site ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Down ? ?Up > >> >> Speedtest ? ? ? ? ?22.01 ? 2.66 > >> >> Speakeasy ? ? ? ? ?5.10 ? ?2.62 > >> >> bandwidthpalce ? ? 12.23 ? 2.35 > >> >> auditmypc ? ? ? ? ?20.87 ? 3.51 > >> >> internetfrog ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 5.09 ? ?1.53 > >> >> DSLreports ? ? ? ? 22.15 ? 2.55 > >> >> toast.net ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4.56 ? ?NA > >> >> visualware.com ? ? 9.37 ? ?2.58 > >> >> testinternetspeed ?1.71 ? ?2.02 > >> >> whatsmyip.com ? ? ?20.67 ? 2.46 > >> >> AVG ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?12.38 ? 2.48 > >> >> Qwest SpeedTest > >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?24.89 ? 2.505 > >> >> Diff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -12.61 ?-0.25 > >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-50.6% ?-0.99% speed loss. > >> >> > >> >> Qwest speeds > >> >> Site ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Down ? ?Up > >> >> Speedtest ? ? ? ? ?2.59 ? ?0.72 > >> >> Speakeasy ? ? ? ? ?4.17 ? ?0.73 > >> >> bandwidthpalce ? ? 2.67 ? ?0.70 > >> >> auditmypc ? ? ? ? ?18.26 ? 0.76 > >> >> internetfrog ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0.80 ? ?0.60 > >> >> DSLreports ? ? ? ? 2.88 ? ?0.69 > >> >> toast.net ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0.75 ? ?NA > >> >> visualware.com ? ? 2.09 ? ?0.72 > >> >> testinternetspeed ?1.88 ? ?0.70 > >> >> whatsmyip.com ? ? ?6.62 ? ?0.71 > >> >> AVG ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4.27 ? ?0.70 > >> >> Qwest SpeedTest > >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?16.64 ? 0.78 > >> >> Diff ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -12.37 ?-0.08 > >> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-74.3% ?-10.3% speed loss. > >> >> > >> >> I hope this is more legible for you guys... ?I know the Comcast does "speed boost" bursting which can account for some of the fluctuation, but the DSL should be a steady, consistent speed. > >> >> > >> >> There was nothing else plugged into the DSL or Phone system except for the modem itself. It's not a perfect experiment - that would be a reboot of each system and waiting 30 minutes between tests, something that with 10 downloads to test would have taken days to complete. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Ryan > >> >> > >> >> P.S. Nate - I know about overhead, even giving them 30-35% just to be nice; I've been a network technician for years in Windows, Mac and various flavors of *nix for the last ten years, and I was an early adopter of DSL in 1999. This is more a showing people my experiences with their "FIOS" connection which is a false advertising lead, IMHO, and fails to inform the consumer that the upload speeds are NOT proportional to the download speed. > >> >> > >> >> P.P.S. I ran the internet connection at my "office" aka cafe I like and they get 38.23 Mbit down and 7 Mbit up. Consistently. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Jul 19, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> which speedtest engine is faulty? > >> >>> > >> >>> The rates that the providers quote for speeds (for ADSL at least) are the > >> >>> maximum rates that your line can sync up at. You may be sync'ing at that > >> >>> speed, or at lower speeds (your DSL modem/router should be able to show > >> >>> those stats.) Because of overheads, you will never get the exact speed > >> >>> they advertise - it will be slightly lower.. if you read the fine print it > >> >>> generally states that the speeds are maximum, not guaranteed, etc. > >> >>> > >> >>> I do agree that it looks like you are getting horrible speeds with Qwest - > >> >>> it could be a number of factors (ie, poor line conditions on your end, a > >> >>> dslam without enough backhaul connectivity, oversold connectivty at > >> >>> Qwest.net, etc); you could try a different ISP if you want to keep DSL > >> >>> (since you are on an ADSL tier you can pick your ISP), which would > >> >>> eliminate Qwest.net from the picture.. but from my view if you are happy > >> >>> with cable then keep it! ?:) > >> >>> > >> >>> On Sat, 17 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> >>>> All of this is BEYOND my point: Their speedtest engine is faulty. It > >> >>>> claims speeds that it is *not* producing. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I checked my cable line and the DSL line against a number of other test > >> >>>> providers, here are the results: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Speedtest ? ? ? ?Speakeasy ? ? ? bandwidthplace ?auditmypc.com ? internetfrog ? ?DSLreports ? ? ?toast.net ? ? ? visualware.com ?testinternetspeed ? ? ? whatsmyip.com > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Down ? ? Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up ? ? ?Down ? ?Up > >> >>>> Qwest ? ?2.59 ? ?0.72 ? ?4.17 ? ?0.73 ? ?2.67 ? ?0.70 ? ?18.26 ? 0.76 ? ?0.80 ? ?0.60 ? ?2.88 ? ?0.69 ? ?0.75 > >> >>>> 2.09 ? ? 0.72 ? ?1.88 ? ?0.70 ? ?6.62 ? ?0.71 > >> >>>> Comcast ?22.01 ? 2.66 ? ?5.10 ? ?2.62 ? ?12.23 ? 2.35 ? ?20.87 ? 3.51 ? ?5.09 ? ?1.53 ? ?22.15 ? 2.55 ? ?4.56 > >> >>>> 9.37 ? ? 2.58 ? ?1.71 ? ?2.02 ? ?20.67 ? 2.46 > >> >>>> > >> >>>> All speeds are reported in Megabits (Mbps), some are calculated from Kilobits per second. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -- > >> >>>> Ryan > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On Jul 17, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Nate Carlson wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> Just a bit of clarification - 20mb/896kbps is *not* FIOS - Qwest > >> >>>>> advertises this as "Fiber optic fast", but what it really means is that > >> >>>>> they run fiber to the DSLAM that serves your line. 20mbit/896kbit is > >> >>>>> ADSL2+. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Qwest does offer VDSL in certain parts of the metro, which is available at > >> >>>>> speeds of 40mbit/20mbit, 40mbit/5mbit, and also adds a 5mbit upstream > >> >>>>> option to 20mbit, 12mbit, and 7mbit tiers. If you got 896k upstream, > >> >>>>> however, you are ADSL2+, not VDSL. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> As far as I know Qwest does not have any plans to roll out a real > >> >>>>> fiber-to-the-home option - it's all fiber to the 'neighborhood' with > >> >>>>> various technologies running over copper to deliver the service. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> (Of course, Qwest does offer fiber services to businesses, but it's quite > >> >>>>> a bit more money than we're talking for DSL.. *grin*) > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> >>>>>> 20Mbit. Which comes with an unreported upload cap of 896Kbps. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> But I'm probably calling them on Monday to tell them to pick everything up and take it back; Ran my own speed test through speedtest.net and the reported download speed was 3.2-4.5 Mbps. Same website on my cable modem reported 25+ Mbps on download. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> -- > >> >>>>>> Ryan > >> >>>>>> On Jul 16, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Donovan wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> I'll probably only end up cutting one of the two cable internet lines into my apartment... > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> 16Mbit download -- pretty nice > >> >>>>>>>> 600Kbit upload -- not so nice > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> Ran a speed test on our "public" cable line at home and got 30Mbit down and 3Mbit up. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> Setting up a static IP on the Qwest website appears to be nearly impossible, that's a shock. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> -- > >> >>>>>>>> Ryan > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> >>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> >>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> Which package did you get? > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> -- > >> >>>>>>> Donovan Niesen > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> >>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> >>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Donovan Niesen > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 16:33:19 2010 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:33:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI Message-ID: I am taking a tech writing class. I am writing an argument paper citing the benefits of using the command line VS the GUI. I would appreciate any opinions you would like to share. Do you think administration if faster using the command line ? How long did it take you to learn the GUI ? How long did it take you to learn to use the command line ? What are the major benefits of the command line ? What are the major benefits of using the GUI ? Do you think something was lost when the GUI came out ? Thank you for your time. Ron, -- I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell - Harry S Truman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100720/48af4714/attachment.htm From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jul 20 16:48:26 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:48:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, I think you need to specify WHICH GUI and WHICH commandline and what exactly you're trying to do. I think the common concensus is that commandlines are VASTLY more powerful and flexible than a GUI, but that a GUI has a much easier learning curve. Course, that's all a case-by-case basis and there's a lot of apples-to-oranges. For example, it would be a lot easier to teach someone who to use a bash commandline to copy files than it would be to teach someone to use the GUI for friggin Photoshop. As for whether something is lost when you use a GUI, consider the fact that the simple 'ls' command has, what, 30+ switches? Yeah, you lose some optins when you go to a GUI. You also gain some things for specific applications. The aforementioned Photoshop, for example. cropping an image visually is a hell of a lot easier than with a GUI (unless you do repeatative batches, of course). On Tue, 20 Jul 2010, r j wrote: > I am taking ?a tech writing class. I am writing an argument paper citing > the?benefits?of using the command line VS the GUI. I would?appreciate > any?opinions?you would like to share.? > Do you think?administration?if faster using the command line ? > > How long did it take you to learn the GUI ?? > > How long did it take you to learn to use the?command?line ? > > What are the major?benefits of the command line ?? > > What are the major?benefits?of using the GUI ? > > Do you think something was lost when the GUI came out ? > > Thank you for your time. > > Ron, > > -- > > I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was > hell ? ? ? ?- Harry S Truman > > > > -Yaron -- From wdtj at yahoo.com Tue Jul 20 16:53:45 2010 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <487171.50898.qm@web53806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> From: r j > >To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >Sent: Tue, July 20, 2010 4:33:19 PM >Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI > >I am taking a tech writing class. I am writing an argument paper citing >the benefits of using the command line VS the GUI. I would appreciate >any opinions you would like to share. > > >Do you think administration if faster using the command line ? > > In my case, I originally learned Unix on a command line system. The CLI seems more natural to me, but that might be due to my familiarit with it. > >How long did it take you to learn the GUI ? > > Years. > >How long did it take you to learn to use the command line ? > > Years. > >What are the major benefits of the command line ? > > I feel it's more exact and specific. It also is scriptable, whereas GUI isn't. > >What are the major benefits of using the GUI ? > > Easier to learn. > >Do you think something was lost when the GUI came out ? > > Most GUI interfaces are simply wrappers on top of a CLI interface. In my experience, not all command options are carried through to the GUI. Some GUI use icons that have a meaning that isn't always clear. Each interface has it's uses, and I find I use the one that meets the requirements of the task. If it's simple, like deleting a directory, I'll likely use the GUI. If it's more complicated, like figuring out what users are using how much disk space, I'll use a CLI with a piped command (i.e. du -sk * | sort -n). > >Thank you for your time. > > >Ron, > >-- >I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell > - Harry S Truman > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100720/2356796e/attachment.htm From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 20 17:48:11 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:48:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI In-Reply-To: ; from ronsmailbox5@gmail.com on Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 04:33:19PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20100720174811.N7933@real-time.com> On 07/20 04:33 , r j wrote: > I am taking a tech writing class. I am writing an argument paper citing > the benefits of using the command line VS the GUI. I would appreciate > any opinions you would like to share. This quote from your .sig sums up the GUI vs. CLI debate in some ways: > I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was > hell - Harry S Truman There's a lot of people profoundly stuck in their ways on how they manage computers. I admit to being one of them. :) Challenging people's core beliefs is not an easy thing; and the debate challenges those beliefs. > Do you think administration if faster using the command line ? I think this is a poor question. Allow me to compare and contrast the CLI and the GUI with a couple of aphorisms. The command line allows you to speak to your computer in complete sentences instead of using a point-and-grunt interface. The command line is like a blank sheet of paper. Frightening if you don't know what to do with it, but full of possibilities that only you can imagine if you know how to write the story. Unix does not stop you from doing stupid things, because stopping you from doing stupid things would also stop you from doing clever things. - Doug Gwyn The corollary to the above statement is: Windows is pretty good at stopping you from doing stupid things. - "Uncle Melkor" The GUI guides you through a limited set of options. It shows you some limited possibilities. This is not necessarily a bad thing, because it cuts down on the time up front that you need to spend learning the tool, and if you will never need to use the tool for any extensive or complex work, this saves you time overall. The CLI (provided it is well-designed and powerful, like bash) allows you to chain together components in ways that the GUI cannot by its very nature allow. Given time and creativity, this allows you to express complex ideas that make the computer do the repetetive tasks that it's good at. > How long did it take you to learn the GUI ? I haven't learned a GUI. I have to re-learn some of most GUIs every time I use them, because they change so much from version to version. > How long did it take you to learn to use the command line ? This is sort of like asking 'how long did it take you to learn to write a novel?'. One never finishes learning, one only gets better at putting the words together into phrases and expressing ideas with them. Fortunately, words don't change much over time. > What are the major benefits of the command line ? complexity of ideas you can express to the computer. > What are the major benefits of using the GUI ? complexity of data it can express to the user. GUIs allow graphs and other complex multidimensional data representations; whereas the CLI (strictly speaking, not including curses here) only allows numerical representations or crude character-based graphs. Synthesizing the above two ideas together, you end up with something like AutoCAD; where you can express your ideas with a command line, but recieve the result graphically. Some other examples are the Vimperator plug-in for Firefox, and the wmii window manager. I encourage you to try them. > Do you think something was lost when the GUI came out ? Warning: some exceedingly broad correlations and conflations follow. GUI != 'the web' and 'the web' != 'the Internet' but for most practical purposes these days it does. Yes. For better or for worse, the GUI helps people do simple tasks more easily. It removed one 'filter' that prevented people with low skills and low willingness to learn from using the computer. This caused a lot of pain for those of us who viewed the society of computer enthusiasts as a retreat from the 'great unwashed masses'. Users started pouring onto the Internet with little idea what they were doing, and a very limited number of people with good netiquette to learn from. The result was top-posing and untrimmed replies and permanent caps lock. However, even with all the knuckleheads out there defecating their unformed and uninformed ideas on the Internet; it has turned out to be a largely positive thing. Communication is always beneficial; and the more opportunity there is for more people to communicate, the better off we all are. Consider the difference between the knowlege the public had of WW2 compared to Vietnam compared to Desert Storm compared to Afghanistan. Consider how much more we know about the outrageous legislation being passed in Washington; and how much more we know about people who are just refusing to comply with it and ignore a government they don't believe serves them anymore. And most people have learned to turn off caps lock. ;) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From aristophrenic at warpmail.net Tue Jul 20 18:17:10 2010 From: aristophrenic at warpmail.net (Isaac Atilano) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:17:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1279667830.2767.1385869771@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:33 -0500, "r j" wrote: > I am taking a tech writing class. I am writing an argument paper citing > the benefits of using the command line VS the GUI. I would appreciate > any opinions you would like to share. > > Do you think administration if faster using the command line ? For the most part yes, but to elaborate: command line administration often relies on configuration files. If you're familiar with the file syntax and options and are quick with a command line editor, then my experience is that command line is much faster. However, administration of software that I'm not familiar with is done more quickly by me using a GUI. > > How long did it take you to learn the GUI ? I learn GUI through practice with it. The time it takes depends on the complexity of the software being used. > > How long did it take you to learn to use the command line ? I felt that after a year I was able to comfortably administer a Linux system through the CLI. > > What are the major benefits of the command line ? More commands with more command options, in-line scripts, and shell goodies such as pipes and redirection! > > What are the major benefits of using the GUI ? If you forget the specific options or syntax, you can normally set it using intuition. > > Do you think something was lost when the GUI came out ? It's not lost if you also have access to CLI such as on a Linux system. It's been my experience with non-cli users in the workplace that they often want to combine the functionality of various programs for automation but unless the software is written for that purpose, it makes it very difficult. > > Thank you for your time. > > Ron, > > -- > > I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it > was > hell - Harry S Truman > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue Jul 20 20:40:03 2010 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:40:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: <20100719193125.GK2873@iris.iucha.org> References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <20100719193125.GK2873@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Florin Iucha wrote: > [root at iris shorewall]# traceroute 205.171.3.25 > traceroute to 205.171.3.25 (205.171.3.25), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets > 1 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 0.600 ms 0.280 ms 0.241 ms > 2 mpls-dsl-gw46-238.mpls.qwest.net (207.225.140.238) 20.795 ms 20.828 ms 20.847 ms > 3 mpls-agw1.inet.qwest.net (75.168.229.105) 20.908 ms 20.814 ms 21.430 ms > 4 min-core-01.inet.qwest.net (67.14.21.110) 22.021 ms 22.036 ms 22.063 ms > 5 resolver.qwest.net (205.171.3.25) 22.113 ms 22.130 ms 22.230 ms Thanks! Yeah, much better than normal ADSL with interleaving at least.. From tclug at natecarlson.com Tue Jul 20 20:44:36 2010 From: tclug at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:44:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] FIOS first experience In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: > Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. > > 0.742 ms 20.45 ms 20.586 ms 207.225.140.233 (207.225.140.233) > > Looks like less than 30 to me. That was from the DSL modem itself, from > my workstation it was 21ms Indeed - that's great! Here's hoping the 7/5 tier becomes available at my home address soon; I can currently get 1.5mb/896k or 7mb/896k, but would really like more than 1mbit upstream (i take lots of photos. they take forever to backup to my offsite server at 1mbit. ie - a couple directories full of photos are currently being backed up; it's been two weeks already.. sigh.) From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 22:26:20 2010 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:26:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4668DC.6090406@gmail.com> On 7/20/2010 4:33 PM, r j wrote: > I am taking a tech writing class. I am writing an argument paper > citing the benefits of using the command line VS the GUI. I > would appreciate any opinions you would like to share. I hope you aren't going to be too general in the comparison. Some tasks are very well suited to a CLI, while others are suited to a GUI. For example, if you wanted to convert a thousand PNG images to JPEG, a CLI program would work tremendously. On the other hand, if you wanted to do fancy image manipulation (beyond resizing/cropping/etc.), a GUI would be better since you could see your changes in real time. There are tons of examples I could give here. IMO, it's not about "better", but rather "more appropriate". > Do you think administration if faster using the command line ? "Administration" is far too general a topic to have an opinion here. > How long did it take you to learn the GUI ? The basics of a simple point-and-click interface takes a few minutes to learn. Beyond the basics, it really depends on how complex and well made the GUI is for a particular program. > How long did it take you to learn to use the command line ? The learning curve here is more learning programs rather than how the shell itself works. > What are the major benefits of the command line ? A CLI is appropriate for automation and basic tasks. > What are the major benefits of using the GUI ? A GUI is appropriate for complex and/or visual tasks or where it's helpful to have certain information displayed while performing a task (e.g. the tsMuxeR GUI). A well-written GUI frontend can also be helpful in learning the various options/switches of its CLI backend. > Do you think something was lost when the GUI came out ? Absolutely not. The GUI opened up a whole new world and made a lot of things a million times easier. I do think that too many people are too dependent on it and are missing out on the power of the command line and how it makes other things a million times easier though. From nesius at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 00:22:49 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:22:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI In-Reply-To: <4C4668DC.6090406@gmail.com> References: <4C4668DC.6090406@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Do you think administration if faster using the command line ? I just power-cycle everything three times. That always fixes the problem. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100721/f9bb3fd4/attachment.htm From wdtj at yahoo.com Wed Jul 21 09:00:21 2010 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI In-Reply-To: References: <4C4668DC.6090406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <207437.30624.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Spoken like a true Windows professional 8{)> --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > >From: Robert Nesius >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 12:22:49 AM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] CLI vs GUI > >> Do you think administration if faster using the command line ? > >I just power-cycle everything three times. That always fixes the problem. > >-Rob > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100721/9546e857/attachment.htm From jucziz6 at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 10:01:35 2010 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:01:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] rsyncd.conf Message-ID: Anyone ever use rsync to propagate the sudoer file? I have the following in the rsyncd.conf file: [sudo] comment = AIX sudoer filer path = /home/das/aix/sudo outgoing chmod=Du+rwx,go-w,Fg-wx,o-rwx incoming chmod=Du+rwx,go-w,Fg-wx,o-rwx I run the following on the client side: rsync -avvz 192.168.84.83::sudo /etc What I need is the file to have the permissions of 440 what I get is 640 on the file and 770 on the directory /etc which really makes a mess of things. Thanks From nesius at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 10:38:57 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:38:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] rsyncd.conf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:01 AM, James wrote: > Anyone ever use rsync to propagate the sudoer file? > > I've found that often times the best way to copy a file while preserving its permissions is to wrap it up in a tarball, move the tarball, extract it, and wallah - permissions that never get borked. Perhaps not as graceful as having rsync do it all, but whenever I've mirrored file and filesystems with files owned by root and containing setuid binaries or very restrictive files like the sudoers file, tar has preserved permissions the most faithfully for me. If you're having trouble coaxing rsync into doing the right thing, you could also wrap the rsync in a script, use rsync to move the bits, and have your script enforce permissions with chmods and chowns and chgrps after the rsync. Maybe you're not running an enterprise environment, but the "super-slick professional way" to mirror your sudoers file would be to manage it in subversion or something and distribute it with cfengine. That might be overkill for you, but it could be a fun experiment. :) Some links you might peruse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_configuration_management_software http://www.cfengine.org/pages/manual_guides http://watson-wilson.ca/blog/cfcookbook.html (Search for sudoers on this page) -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100721/081f54ce/attachment.htm From jucziz6 at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 10:52:31 2010 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:52:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] rsyncd.conf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My other solution was to have rsync put it someplace else so if it trashes the permissions I don't care, since I have a script that runs several rsync's I could have the script move it to the correct location with the correct permissions. On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:01 AM, James wrote: >> >> Anyone ever use rsync to propagate the sudoer file? >> > > I've found that often times the best way to copy a file while preserving its > permissions is to wrap it up in a tarball, move the tarball, extract it, and > wallah - permissions that never get borked.? Perhaps not as graceful as > having rsync do it all, but whenever I've mirrored file and filesystems with > files owned by root and containing setuid binaries or very restrictive files > like the sudoers file, tar has preserved permissions the most faithfully for > me. > > If you're having trouble coaxing rsync into doing the right thing, you could > also wrap the rsync in a script, use rsync to move the bits, and have your > script enforce permissions with chmods and chowns and chgrps after the > rsync. > > Maybe you're not running an enterprise environment, but the "super-slick > professional way" to mirror your sudoers file would be to manage it in > subversion or something and distribute it with cfengine.? That might be > overkill for you, but it could be a fun experiment. :)? Some links you might > peruse: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_configuration_management_software > http://www.cfengine.org/pages/manual_guides > http://watson-wilson.ca/blog/cfcookbook.html?? (Search for sudoers on this > page) > > -Rob > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 12:54:07 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:54:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: > Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. > > 0.742 ms 20.45 ms 20.586 ms 207.225.140.233 (207.225.140.233) > > Looks like less than 30 to me. That was from the DSL modem itself, from > my workstation it was 21ms I think the upshot of this discussion is that the new Qwest VDSL2 service is quite fast and the price is great. It is important that I share my experience with you because the Qwest web site might give you some wrong info. One of the most important things: There is no contract with this, so you are not locked in. You can dump them after 6 months, or 1 month, or renegotiate a better price. The jump from $30/mo to $95/mo is a lot, so you'll probably want to do something. (Even if I paid $30 for months 1-6 and $95 for months 7-12, I'd pay less this year than I'm paying now.) I checked with Qwest's web site to see if my home was in an area that could receive the 40/20 Mbps "beyond fast" service. The web site said that I could not receive this service. I used the chat link to ask when it might be available (I live in a residential neighborhood of Minneapolis right nextdoor to a business). The chat person, Lynn Veches, told me that I could receive 40/20 in my home -- the web site was wrong. I told her that I know some people who might be interested and she said that if the web site says you can't receive this service, but you think it might be wrong, write to her at Lynn.Veches at qwest.com and she will check for you. The second important thing is that the deal continues after today: $29.99/mo for 40/20 for 6 months for people without Qwest phone service ($19.99 if you have Qwest phone service), but the $69.99 for the modem increases to $99.99 after 4:00 pm today. It costs $49.99 to have a Qwest tech come to your house and set up your first computer. She recommended this and told me that some people think they are tech savvy enough to do this themselves, but the Qwest pro will do extra work on the line, as needed, to bring you up to a full 40/20. Without the tech working on this, you may not get 40/20. Qwest will give you a $50 Visa Gift Card that can be used to pay your bill. I'm not sure that the gift card is only for today (probably not, but maybe). The Qwest service gives you the full bandwidth, straight to Qwest, and you aren't sharing it with anyone. They will not block any ports and you can run whatever services you want. I asked her and that is what she told me. See the info below. She told me that if you guys want to get this deal today before 4:00, write to her at the email address below. Feel free to include what I have written here for reference (but I'm not getting anything for this -- no referral or anything else -- I'm just trying to help you guys to get a good deal). I'm signing up now. Best, Mike Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:20:32 From: "Veches, Lynn" To: Mike Miller Subject: copy of Qwest Chat I will give you a $50.00 Visa Gift Card 40M/20M $29.99 months 1-6 free activation and s&h, modem $69.99 today only, and $95.00 per month 7+forward REPLY to Order From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:27:27 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:27:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: I forgot to add a couple of things: You can have one single static IP that you order yourself online after installation for $5.95 per month. The Qwest modem gives you four or five ports for computers so that they can connect directly instead of via a router. The Qwest modem also provides a wireless access point. I forgot to ask if it is 802.11g or 802.11n. I don't have a Wii, but apparently that works quite well with this system because she talked about it a lot even though I wasn't asking. I just placed my order. I'll tell you if I find anything remarkable about the service after I get it. One thing I don't know about is the Qwest service's Linux-friendliness, or lack thereof. I do have one Windows box, still, and a few Linux boxes, but would prefer to move away from Windows and have them set it up using the Linux box. If the configuration is done using a web browser and not some specialized software, then I can probably do it from Linux easily. Mike On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: > >> Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. >> >> 0.742 ms 20.45 ms 20.586 ms 207.225.140.233 (207.225.140.233) >> >> Looks like less than 30 to me. That was from the DSL modem itself, >> from my workstation it was 21ms > > > I think the upshot of this discussion is that the new Qwest VDSL2 > service is quite fast and the price is great. It is important that I > share my experience with you because the Qwest web site might give you > some wrong info. > > One of the most important things: There is no contract with this, so > you are not locked in. You can dump them after 6 months, or 1 month, or > renegotiate a better price. The jump from $30/mo to $95/mo is a lot, so > you'll probably want to do something. (Even if I paid $30 for months > 1-6 and $95 for months 7-12, I'd pay less this year than I'm paying > now.) > > I checked with Qwest's web site to see if my home was in an area that > could receive the 40/20 Mbps "beyond fast" service. The web site said > that I could not receive this service. I used the chat link to ask when > it might be available (I live in a residential neighborhood of > Minneapolis right nextdoor to a business). The chat person, Lynn > Veches, told me that I could receive 40/20 in my home -- the web site > was wrong. I told her that I know some people who might be interested > and she said that if the web site says you can't receive this service, > but you think it might be wrong, write to her at Lynn.Veches at qwest.com > and she will check for you. > > The second important thing is that the deal continues after today: > $29.99/mo for 40/20 for 6 months for people without Qwest phone service > ($19.99 if you have Qwest phone service), but the $69.99 for the modem > increases to $99.99 after 4:00 pm today. > > It costs $49.99 to have a Qwest tech come to your house and set up your > first computer. She recommended this and told me that some people think > they are tech savvy enough to do this themselves, but the Qwest pro will > do extra work on the line, as needed, to bring you up to a full 40/20. > Without the tech working on this, you may not get 40/20. > > Qwest will give you a $50 Visa Gift Card that can be used to pay your > bill. I'm not sure that the gift card is only for today (probably not, > but maybe). > > The Qwest service gives you the full bandwidth, straight to Qwest, and > you aren't sharing it with anyone. They will not block any ports and > you can run whatever services you want. I asked her and that is what > she told me. > > See the info below. She told me that if you guys want to get this deal > today before 4:00, write to her at the email address below. Feel free > to include what I have written here for reference (but I'm not getting > anything for this -- no referral or anything else -- I'm just trying to > help you guys to get a good deal). > > I'm signing up now. > > Best, > Mike > > > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:20:32 > From: "Veches, Lynn" > To: Mike Miller > Subject: copy of Qwest Chat > > I will give you a $50.00 Visa Gift Card > 40M/20M $29.99 months 1-6 free activation and s&h, modem $69.99 today only, > and $95.00 per month 7+forward > REPLY to Order From dniesen at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:36:56 2010 From: dniesen at gmail.com (Donovan) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:36:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: Weird, the modem they gave me is only one ethernet port and no wireless. It still has router functions though (DHCP, NAT, etc). Maybe you have to pay extra for the multi-port/wireless version? On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I forgot to add a couple of things: > > You can have one single static IP that you order yourself online after > installation for $5.95 per month. > > The Qwest modem gives you four or five ports for computers so that they > can connect directly instead of via a router. > > The Qwest modem also provides a wireless access point. ?I forgot to ask if > it is 802.11g or 802.11n. > > I don't have a Wii, but apparently that works quite well with this system > because she talked about it a lot even though I wasn't asking. > > I just placed my order. ?I'll tell you if I find anything remarkable about > the service after I get it. ?One thing I don't know about is the Qwest > service's Linux-friendliness, or lack thereof. ?I do have one Windows box, > still, and a few Linux boxes, but would prefer to move away from Windows > and have them set it up using the Linux box. ?If the configuration is done > using a web browser and not some specialized software, then I can probably > do it from Linux easily. > > Mike > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: >> >>> Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. >>> >>> 0.742 ms ? ? 20.45 ms ? ? ? ?20.586 ms ? ? ? 207.225.140.233 ?(207.225.140.233) >>> >>> Looks like less than 30 to me. ?That was from the DSL modem itself, >>> from my workstation it was 21ms >> >> >> I think the upshot of this discussion is that the new Qwest VDSL2 >> service is quite fast and the price is great. ?It is important that I >> share my experience with you because the Qwest web site might give you >> some wrong info. >> >> One of the most important things: ?There is no contract with this, so >> you are not locked in. ?You can dump them after 6 months, or 1 month, or >> renegotiate a better price. ?The jump from $30/mo to $95/mo is a lot, so >> you'll probably want to do something. ?(Even if I paid $30 for months >> 1-6 and $95 for months 7-12, I'd pay less this year than I'm paying >> now.) >> >> I checked with Qwest's web site to see if my home was in an area that >> could receive the 40/20 Mbps "beyond fast" service. ?The web site said >> that I could not receive this service. ?I used the chat link to ask when >> it might be available (I live in a residential neighborhood of >> Minneapolis right nextdoor to a business). ?The chat person, Lynn >> Veches, told me that I could receive 40/20 in my home -- the web site >> was wrong. ?I told her that I know some people who might be interested >> and she said that if the web site says you can't receive this service, >> but you think it might be wrong, write to her at Lynn.Veches at qwest.com >> and she will check for you. >> >> The second important thing is that the deal continues after today: >> $29.99/mo for 40/20 for 6 months for people without Qwest phone service >> ($19.99 if you have Qwest phone service), but the $69.99 for the modem >> increases to $99.99 after 4:00 pm today. >> >> It costs $49.99 to have a Qwest tech come to your house and set up your >> first computer. ?She recommended this and told me that some people think >> they are tech savvy enough to do this themselves, but the Qwest pro will >> do extra work on the line, as needed, to bring you up to a full 40/20. >> Without the tech working on this, you may not get 40/20. >> >> Qwest will give you a $50 Visa Gift Card that can be used to pay your >> bill. I'm not sure that the gift card is only for today (probably not, >> but maybe). >> >> The Qwest service gives you the full bandwidth, straight to Qwest, and >> you aren't sharing it with anyone. ?They will not block any ports and >> you can run whatever services you want. ?I asked her and that is what >> she told me. >> >> See the info below. ?She told me that if you guys want to get this deal >> today before 4:00, write to her at the email address below. ?Feel free >> to include what I have written here for reference (but I'm not getting >> anything for this -- no referral or anything else -- I'm just trying to >> help you guys to get a good deal). >> >> I'm signing up now. >> >> Best, >> Mike >> >> >> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:20:32 >> From: "Veches, Lynn" >> To: Mike Miller >> Subject: copy of Qwest Chat >> >> I will give you a $50.00 Visa Gift Card >> 40M/20M $29.99 months 1-6 free activation and s&h, modem $69.99 today only, >> and $95.00 per month 7+forward >> REPLY to Order > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Donovan Niesen From SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us Wed Jul 21 14:41:09 2010 From: SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us (Scott Downing) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:41:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03A@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Its an 802.11n wireless router, its decent but I find its abilities lacking. My main beef is that since switching to that my wireless devices don't seem to be in the same broadcast network as my wired, which means services that detect each other via broadcast either can't find each other or take a very long time when one is wired and the other is wireless. Example: My Ps3 which is on wireless takes between 5 and 15 minutes to find the UPnP server which is wired. I also disabled the dhcp server on the router because you can't do basic things like reserve addresses or specify other dns servers, I use my old DD-WRT G router for these things with the wifi disabled. As for Linux friendliness with Qwest, been with them for 2 years now and they've never asked me to use a windows computer, I don't even have one in the house if they do ever ask. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Mike Miller Sent: Wed 7/21/2010 2:27 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") I forgot to add a couple of things: You can have one single static IP that you order yourself online after installation for $5.95 per month. The Qwest modem gives you four or five ports for computers so that they can connect directly instead of via a router. The Qwest modem also provides a wireless access point. I forgot to ask if it is 802.11g or 802.11n. I don't have a Wii, but apparently that works quite well with this system because she talked about it a lot even though I wasn't asking. I just placed my order. I'll tell you if I find anything remarkable about the service after I get it. One thing I don't know about is the Qwest service's Linux-friendliness, or lack thereof. I do have one Windows box, still, and a few Linux boxes, but would prefer to move away from Windows and have them set it up using the Linux box. If the configuration is done using a web browser and not some specialized software, then I can probably do it from Linux easily. Mike On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: > >> Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. >> >> 0.742 ms 20.45 ms 20.586 ms 207.225.140.233 (207.225.140.233) >> >> Looks like less than 30 to me. That was from the DSL modem itself, >> from my workstation it was 21ms > > > I think the upshot of this discussion is that the new Qwest VDSL2 > service is quite fast and the price is great. It is important that I > share my experience with you because the Qwest web site might give you > some wrong info. > > One of the most important things: There is no contract with this, so > you are not locked in. You can dump them after 6 months, or 1 month, or > renegotiate a better price. The jump from $30/mo to $95/mo is a lot, so > you'll probably want to do something. (Even if I paid $30 for months > 1-6 and $95 for months 7-12, I'd pay less this year than I'm paying > now.) > > I checked with Qwest's web site to see if my home was in an area that > could receive the 40/20 Mbps "beyond fast" service. The web site said > that I could not receive this service. I used the chat link to ask when > it might be available (I live in a residential neighborhood of > Minneapolis right nextdoor to a business). The chat person, Lynn > Veches, told me that I could receive 40/20 in my home -- the web site > was wrong. I told her that I know some people who might be interested > and she said that if the web site says you can't receive this service, > but you think it might be wrong, write to her at Lynn.Veches at qwest.com > and she will check for you. > > The second important thing is that the deal continues after today: > $29.99/mo for 40/20 for 6 months for people without Qwest phone service > ($19.99 if you have Qwest phone service), but the $69.99 for the modem > increases to $99.99 after 4:00 pm today. > > It costs $49.99 to have a Qwest tech come to your house and set up your > first computer. She recommended this and told me that some people think > they are tech savvy enough to do this themselves, but the Qwest pro will > do extra work on the line, as needed, to bring you up to a full 40/20. > Without the tech working on this, you may not get 40/20. > > Qwest will give you a $50 Visa Gift Card that can be used to pay your > bill. I'm not sure that the gift card is only for today (probably not, > but maybe). > > The Qwest service gives you the full bandwidth, straight to Qwest, and > you aren't sharing it with anyone. They will not block any ports and > you can run whatever services you want. I asked her and that is what > she told me. > > See the info below. She told me that if you guys want to get this deal > today before 4:00, write to her at the email address below. Feel free > to include what I have written here for reference (but I'm not getting > anything for this -- no referral or anything else -- I'm just trying to > help you guys to get a good deal). > > I'm signing up now. > > Best, > Mike > > > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:20:32 > From: "Veches, Lynn" > To: Mike Miller > Subject: copy of Qwest Chat > > I will give you a $50.00 Visa Gift Card > 40M/20M $29.99 months 1-6 free activation and s&h, modem $69.99 today only, > and $95.00 per month 7+forward > REPLY to Order _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 6296 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100721/ae8c095e/attachment-0001.bin From erikerik at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 14:47:58 2010 From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:47:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03A@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03A@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Scott Downing wrote: > Its an 802.11n wireless router, its decent but I find its abilities lacking. My main beef is that since switching to that my wireless > devices don't seem to be in the same broadcast network as my wired, which means services that detect each other via > broadcast either can't find each other or take a very long time when one is wired and the other is wireless. Do you know if the modem can be put into "passthrough" mode? I have a pfSense router/firewall (running on one of PCEngines awesome embedded boards) that I'd like to keep using if possible... -Erik From florin at iucha.net Wed Jul 21 14:54:18 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:54:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03A@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20100721195418.GD7908@iris.iucha.org> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 02:47:58PM -0500, Erik Anderson wrote: > Do you know if the modem can be put into "passthrough" mode? I have a > pfSense router/firewall (running on one of PCEngines awesome embedded > boards) that I'd like to keep using if possible... Yup -- you can use the 'DMZ' feature (which is not real DMZ) to forward all the incoming traffic to an internal IP address of your choice. What is scary about this modem and Qwest is that I had a problem setting up my static IP on it, and the tech casually said: "let me try connecting remotely to your modem to see if I can fix it". Ouch! As soon as I can unpack it, I'll have my wifi router between the Qwest box and my network. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100721/eae6d56c/attachment.pgp From kc0iog at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 15:04:06 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:04:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Networking issue: what am I missing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Brian Wall wrote: > That's my next test. ?I didn't have any spare switches handy this > weekend, but I obtained a couple to try today. Success, attaching to a different network switch then uplinking that switch to the original Netgear did the trick. I am completely stumped on why this is, the geek in me refuses to let it go. Oh well, at least the PXE box works again. Brian From jjensen at apache.org Wed Jul 21 15:55:34 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:55:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the alert Mike!? I emailed her and received the expected response (I occasionally check and wonder about switching to cable, but prefer not to switch at the moment): "Fiber is coming to your specific location late October of 2010, sorry, it's not at your location yet." On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:27:27 -0500 (CDT) Mike Miller wrote: > I forgot to add a couple of things: > > You can have one single static IP that you order >yourself online after > installation for $5.95 per month. > > The Qwest modem gives you four or five ports for >computers so that they > can connect directly instead of via a router. > > The Qwest modem also provides a wireless access point. > I forgot to ask if > it is 802.11g or 802.11n. > > I don't have a Wii, but apparently that works quite well >with this system > because she talked about it a lot even though I wasn't >asking. > > I just placed my order. I'll tell you if I find >anything remarkable about > the service after I get it. One thing I don't know >about is the Qwest > service's Linux-friendliness, or lack thereof. I do >have one Windows box, > still, and a few Linux boxes, but would prefer to move >away from Windows > and have them set it up using the Linux box. If the >configuration is done > using a web browser and not some specialized software, >then I can probably > do it from Linux easily. > > Mike > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: >> >>> Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. >>> >>> 0.742 ms 20.45 ms 20.586 ms 207.225.140.233 >>> (207.225.140.233) >>> >>> Looks like less than 30 to me. That was from the DSL >>>modem itself, >>> from my workstation it was 21ms >> >> >> I think the upshot of this discussion is that the new >>Qwest VDSL2 >> service is quite fast and the price is great. It is >>important that I >> share my experience with you because the Qwest web site >>might give you >> some wrong info. >> >> One of the most important things: There is no contract >>with this, so >> you are not locked in. You can dump them after 6 >>months, or 1 month, or >> renegotiate a better price. The jump from $30/mo to >>$95/mo is a lot, so >> you'll probably want to do something. (Even if I paid >>$30 for months >> 1-6 and $95 for months 7-12, I'd pay less this year than >>I'm paying >> now.) >> >> I checked with Qwest's web site to see if my home was in >>an area that >> could receive the 40/20 Mbps "beyond fast" service. The >>web site said >> that I could not receive this service. I used the chat >>link to ask when >> it might be available (I live in a residential >>neighborhood of >> Minneapolis right nextdoor to a business). The chat >>person, Lynn >> Veches, told me that I could receive 40/20 in my home -- >>the web site >> was wrong. I told her that I know some people who might >>be interested >> and she said that if the web site says you can't receive >>this service, >> but you think it might be wrong, write to her at >>Lynn.Veches at qwest.com >> and she will check for you. >> >> The second important thing is that the deal continues >>after today: >> $29.99/mo for 40/20 for 6 months for people without >>Qwest phone service >> ($19.99 if you have Qwest phone service), but the $69.99 >>for the modem >> increases to $99.99 after 4:00 pm today. >> >> It costs $49.99 to have a Qwest tech come to your house >>and set up your >> first computer. She recommended this and told me that >>some people think >> they are tech savvy enough to do this themselves, but >>the Qwest pro will >> do extra work on the line, as needed, to bring you up to >>a full 40/20. >> Without the tech working on this, you may not get 40/20. >> >> Qwest will give you a $50 Visa Gift Card that can be >>used to pay your >> bill. I'm not sure that the gift card is only for today >>(probably not, >> but maybe). >> >> The Qwest service gives you the full bandwidth, straight >>to Qwest, and >> you aren't sharing it with anyone. They will not block >>any ports and >> you can run whatever services you want. I asked her and >>that is what >> she told me. >> >> See the info below. She told me that if you guys want >>to get this deal >> today before 4:00, write to her at the email address >>below. Feel free >> to include what I have written here for reference (but >>I'm not getting >> anything for this -- no referral or anything else -- I'm >>just trying to >> help you guys to get a good deal). >> >> I'm signing up now. >> >> Best, >> Mike >> >> >> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:20:32 >> From: "Veches, Lynn" >> To: Mike Miller >> Subject: copy of Qwest Chat >> >> I will give you a $50.00 Visa Gift Card >> 40M/20M $29.99 months 1-6 free activation and s&h, modem >>$69.99 today only, >> and $95.00 per month 7+forward >> REPLY to Order > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 16:38:53 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:38:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <2FEADA4D-5B41-498A-8FC6-EA4E14755309@me.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Jeff Jensen wrote: > Thanks for the alert Mike!? I emailed her and received the expected > response (I occasionally check and wonder about switching to cable, but > prefer not to switch at the moment): "Fiber is coming to your specific > location late October of 2010, sorry, it's not at your location yet." That's only 3-4 months away, and I expect they'll have a good deal for you at that time. The $29.99/mo price doesn't seem to be going away, but the $30 off on the modem ended at 4 pm today, she said, because of the end of their fiscal year, or quarter, or something. I think $29.99 for 40/20 Mbps is a really good deal for people who can use the bandwidth. The truth is, most people are probably fine with about 1 Mbps down and even slower up. Mike > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:27:27 -0500 (CDT) > Mike Miller wrote: >> I forgot to add a couple of things: >> >> You can have one single static IP that you order >> yourself online after >> installation for $5.95 per month. >> >> The Qwest modem gives you four or five ports for >> computers so that they >> can connect directly instead of via a router. >> >> The Qwest modem also provides a wireless access point. >> I forgot to ask if >> it is 802.11g or 802.11n. >> >> I don't have a Wii, but apparently that works quite well >> with this system >> because she talked about it a lot even though I wasn't >> asking. >> >> I just placed my order. I'll tell you if I find >> anything remarkable about >> the service after I get it. One thing I don't know >> about is the Qwest >> service's Linux-friendliness, or lack thereof. I do >> have one Windows box, >> still, and a few Linux boxes, but would prefer to move >> away from Windows >> and have them set it up using the Linux box. If the >> configuration is done >> using a web browser and not some specialized software, >> then I can probably >> do it from Linux easily. >> >> Mike >> >> >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 19 Jul 2010, Donovan wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, I have the new VDSL 40Mb/20Mb. >>>> >>>> 0.742 ms 20.45 ms 20.586 ms 207.225.140.233 >>>> (207.225.140.233) >>>> >>>> Looks like less than 30 to me. That was from the DSL >>>> modem itself, >>>> from my workstation it was 21ms >>> >>> >>> I think the upshot of this discussion is that the new >>> Qwest VDSL2 >>> service is quite fast and the price is great. It is >>> important that I >>> share my experience with you because the Qwest web site >>> might give you >>> some wrong info. >>> >>> One of the most important things: There is no contract >>> with this, so >>> you are not locked in. You can dump them after 6 >>> months, or 1 month, or >>> renegotiate a better price. The jump from $30/mo to >>> $95/mo is a lot, so >>> you'll probably want to do something. (Even if I paid >>> $30 for months >>> 1-6 and $95 for months 7-12, I'd pay less this year than >>> I'm paying >>> now.) >>> >>> I checked with Qwest's web site to see if my home was in >>> an area that >>> could receive the 40/20 Mbps "beyond fast" service. The >>> web site said >>> that I could not receive this service. I used the chat >>> link to ask when >>> it might be available (I live in a residential >>> neighborhood of >>> Minneapolis right nextdoor to a business). The chat >>> person, Lynn >>> Veches, told me that I could receive 40/20 in my home -- >>> the web site >>> was wrong. I told her that I know some people who might >>> be interested >>> and she said that if the web site says you can't receive >>> this service, >>> but you think it might be wrong, write to her at >>> Lynn.Veches at qwest.com >>> and she will check for you. >>> >>> The second important thing is that the deal continues >>> after today: >>> $29.99/mo for 40/20 for 6 months for people without >>> Qwest phone service >>> ($19.99 if you have Qwest phone service), but the $69.99 >>> for the modem >>> increases to $99.99 after 4:00 pm today. >>> >>> It costs $49.99 to have a Qwest tech come to your house >>> and set up your >>> first computer. She recommended this and told me that >>> some people think >>> they are tech savvy enough to do this themselves, but >>> the Qwest pro will >>> do extra work on the line, as needed, to bring you up to >>> a full 40/20. >>> Without the tech working on this, you may not get 40/20. >>> >>> Qwest will give you a $50 Visa Gift Card that can be >>> used to pay your >>> bill. I'm not sure that the gift card is only for today >>> (probably not, >>> but maybe). >>> >>> The Qwest service gives you the full bandwidth, straight >>> to Qwest, and >>> you aren't sharing it with anyone. They will not block >>> any ports and >>> you can run whatever services you want. I asked her and >>> that is what >>> she told me. >>> >>> See the info below. She told me that if you guys want >>> to get this deal >>> today before 4:00, write to her at the email address >>> below. Feel free >>> to include what I have written here for reference (but >>> I'm not getting >>> anything for this -- no referral or anything else -- I'm >>> just trying to >>> help you guys to get a good deal). >>> >>> I'm signing up now. >>> >>> Best, >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:20:32 >>> From: "Veches, Lynn" >>> To: Mike Miller >>> Subject: copy of Qwest Chat >>> >>> I will give you a $50.00 Visa Gift Card >>> 40M/20M $29.99 months 1-6 free activation and s&h, modem >>> $69.99 today only, >>> and $95.00 per month 7+forward >>> REPLY to Order >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jjensen at apache.org Wed Jul 21 17:19:06 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:19:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") Message-ID: I'm just hoping they actually establish the service! The fastest they offer for me currently is the 1.5 down 800 up. We do plenty of streaming, so it becomes a saturated pipe (surfing is slower, extra buffering needed). 40 down will be wonderful (5 would even be a serious improvement!)! -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Miller" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: 7/21/10 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Jeff Jensen wrote: > Thanks for the alert Mike!? I emailed her and received the expected > response (I occasionally check and wonder about switching to cable, but > prefer not to switch at the moment): "Fiber is coming to your specific > location late October of 2010, sorry, it's not at your location yet." That's only 3-4 months away, and I expect they'll have a good deal for you at that time. The $29.99/mo price doesn't seem to be going away, but the $30 off on the modem ended at 4 pm today, she said, because of the end of their fiscal year, or quarter, or something. I think $29.99 for 40/20 Mbps is a really good deal for people who can use the bandwidth. The truth is, most people are probably fine with about 1 Mbps down and even slower up. Mike > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:27:27 -0500 (CDT) > Mike Miller wrote: >> I forgot to add a couple of things: >> >> You can have one single static IP that you order >> yourself online after >> installation for $5.95 per month. >> >> The Qwest modem gives you four or five ports for >> computers so that they >> can connect directly instead of via a router. >> >> The Qwest modem also provides a wireless access point. >> I forgot to ask if >> it is 802.11g or 802.11n. >> >> I don't have a Wii, but apparently that works quite well >> with this system >> because she talked about it a lot even though I wasn't >> asking. >> >> I just placed my order. I'll tell you if I find >> anything remarkable about >> the service after I get it. One thing I don't know From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 18:00:22 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:00:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] MagicJack (or competitor?) VOIP service Message-ID: Have any of you been using this?: http://www.magicjack.com/ I still have one last XP box running at home, and I can use it if I have to. My preference is to get rid of it and run everything on Linux (Ubuntu, mostly). Unfortunately, MagicJack seems to be promising Linux compatibility "in the near future" for several years now. Maybe I can get MagicJack to work in Linux by running XP in Virtual Box, but then I'd still be running XP. I'd rather run it natively. I'd also rather use a different product, if there is a reasonable competitor to MagicJack that will run natively on Linux. So I'd like to hear your experiences with VOIP and Linux. Mike P.S. The name sounds like a combination two famous song titles by The Who: "Magic Bus" and "Happy Jack." From mattwj2002 at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 19:24:54 2010 From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matt Junk) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:24:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] MagicJack (or competitor?) VOIP service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi guys, This is my first post to this mailing list so please bare with me. I really like Ooma. The Ooma Telo is $249 on their website or about $199 on Amazon. No computer left running. You can get their basic service (and believe me it is basic) for just the cost of the tax and FCC fees which I think is about $3.50. You can get really good service for a little over $13 - $14 per month. This includes two phone numbers too! It is a good alternative to Vonage. I have found that the quality is pretty good. Anyways, that is my two cents. I hope it helps. By the way the website is http://www.ooma.com Regards, Matt On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > Have any of you been using this?: > > http://www.magicjack.com/ > > I still have one last XP box running at home, and I can use it if I have > to. ?My preference is to get rid of it and run everything on Linux > (Ubuntu, mostly). ?Unfortunately, MagicJack seems to be promising Linux > compatibility "in the near future" for several years now. > > Maybe I can get MagicJack to work in Linux by running XP in Virtual Box, > but then I'd still be running XP. ?I'd rather run it natively. > > I'd also rather use a different product, if there is a reasonable > competitor to MagicJack that will run natively on Linux. > > So I'd like to hear your experiences with VOIP and Linux. > > Mike > > P.S. The name sounds like a combination two famous song titles by The Who: > "Magic Bus" and "Happy Jack." > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From strayf at freeshell.org Wed Jul 21 23:10:19 2010 From: strayf at freeshell.org (Steve Cayford) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:10:19 -0700 Subject: [tclug-list] rsyncd.conf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C47C4AB.1090801@freeshell.org> Have you tried it with the -p flag? -Steve James wrote: > Anyone ever use rsync to propagate the sudoer file? > > I have the following in the rsyncd.conf file: > > [sudo] > comment = AIX sudoer filer > path = /home/das/aix/sudo > outgoing chmod=Du+rwx,go-w,Fg-wx,o-rwx > incoming chmod=Du+rwx,go-w,Fg-wx,o-rwx > > I run the following on the client side: > > rsync -avvz 192.168.84.83::sudo /etc > > What I need is the file to have the permissions of 440 what I get is > 640 on the file and 770 on the directory /etc which really makes a > mess of things. > > Thanks From jjensen at apache.org Wed Jul 21 23:36:07 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Message-ID: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> Lately I've had a lot of slowdown with my DSL router. None of the machines appear to be downloading, streaming, etc. (they could be, but didn't look like it to me). For example, at the moment, pinging the router: PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1686 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1326 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=1163 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=762 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=992 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 5 received, 16% packet loss, time 5488ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 762.641/1186.396/1686.273/312.092 ms, pipe 2 After I reboot it, it's back to sub-millisecond time. But after a short while, it's back up there. It's really slowing down even casual surfing, and the wife keeps yelling at me about it! :-/ And then sometimes, like now, it is back to normal (but it was slow response for awhile, maybe an hour or more?): PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.811 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.862 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.873 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.841 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.810 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.830 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5225ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.810/0.837/0.873/0.044 ms How do I detect what is happening at the time of high load? It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some CBOS show commands and wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to use? From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Jul 22 04:11:34 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:11:34 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> Message-ID: <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> What version of code are you running? Maybe a newer version could help. Check "show errors" and also look at the eth interface stats for various error counters on the cisco. Additionally some models of the 67x (you didn't mention which you have) get very hot on their own so if you have it in an already warm room with minimal air flow it could be overheating and nearing the end of its life. If this seems like the case then try propping it up so the bottom is more accessible to some air flow. You could check the cable from the Cisco, try replacing it with another cable. Is it going to a switch? Try another switch port. Basic things like that can sometimes identify/eliminate during troubleshooting and are super easy to try. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jeff Jensen" Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Lately I've had a lot of slowdown with my DSL router. None of the machines appear to be downloading, streaming, etc. (they could be, but didn't look like it to me). For example, at the moment, pinging the router: PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1686 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1326 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=1163 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=762 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=992 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 5 received, 16% packet loss, time 5488ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 762.641/1186.396/1686.273/312.092 ms, pipe 2 After I reboot it, it's back to sub-millisecond time. But after a short while, it's back up there. It's really slowing down even casual surfing, and the wife keeps yelling at me about it! :-/ And then sometimes, like now, it is back to normal (but it was slow response for awhile, maybe an hour or more?): PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.811 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.862 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.873 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.841 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.810 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.830 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5225ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.810/0.837/0.873/0.044 ms How do I detect what is happening at the time of high load? It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some CBOS show commands and wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to use? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jjensen at apache.org Thu Jul 22 08:02:56 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:02:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <00b701cb299e$385afdd0$a910f970$@org> 678. There is one newer FW rev to upgrade too (on my todo list). I've had this thing for years and started doing this in the past few weeks (seems like its getting worse). Since it goes in & out of slow response, I'm thinking something is using the connection periodically. I'm hoping to learn how to find out how to determine that! Your idea on age-failing is interesting though... Show errors reports nothing (the usual DHCP messages only). "sh int eth0" had some errors for receive (rebooting reset to 0; will see if it increases during the slow responses). I'll check on its warmth (in the mechanical room with my servers on top of switch; room temp is good) & try a different switch port. Thank you for the ideas! -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Justin Krejci Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 4:12 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? What version of code are you running? Maybe a newer version could help. Check "show errors" and also look at the eth interface stats for various error counters on the cisco. Additionally some models of the 67x (you didn't mention which you have) get very hot on their own so if you have it in an already warm room with minimal air flow it could be overheating and nearing the end of its life. If this seems like the case then try propping it up so the bottom is more accessible to some air flow. You could check the cable from the Cisco, try replacing it with another cable. Is it going to a switch? Try another switch port. Basic things like that can sometimes identify/eliminate during troubleshooting and are super easy to try. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jeff Jensen" Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Lately I've had a lot of slowdown with my DSL router. None of the machines appear to be downloading, streaming, etc. (they could be, but didn't look like it to me). For example, at the moment, pinging the router: PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1686 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1326 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=1163 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=762 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=992 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 5 received, 16% packet loss, time 5488ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 762.641/1186.396/1686.273/312.092 ms, pipe 2 After I reboot it, it's back to sub-millisecond time. But after a short while, it's back up there. It's really slowing down even casual surfing, and the wife keeps yelling at me about it! :-/ And then sometimes, like now, it is back to normal (but it was slow response for awhile, maybe an hour or more?): PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.811 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.862 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.873 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.841 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.810 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.830 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5225ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.810/0.837/0.873/0.044 ms How do I detect what is happening at the time of high load? It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some CBOS show commands and wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to use? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at jfoo.org Thu Jul 22 08:30:23 2010 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:30:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> Message-ID: <10668.167.206.189.6.1279805423.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> > How do I detect what is happening at the time of high load? > It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some CBOS show commands > and > wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to use? snmp, maybe with mrtg? j From jjensen at apache.org Thu Jul 22 08:52:42 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:52:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <10668.167.206.189.6.1279805423.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <10668.167.206.189.6.1279805423.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> Message-ID: I actually setup mrtg recently.? The problem is the SNMP oids it checks are always 0!? So I'm hoping a firmware upgrade "fixes" that (there is one newer than its running), and will do that soon (other SNMP values are populated, so I know it partially works.? *boggled*). The other interesting thing is that, with continual SNMP montoring by mrtg, the router eventually has malloc errors on the SNMP requests (I see them in the errors log).? I'm also hoping this bug is fixed with the upgrade too! Thanks for the idea - I'm a home user with years of *nix exposure at my customers, not a sysadmin, so I appreciate the ideas a lot! On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:30:23 -0500 (CDT) "John Gateley" wrote: > >> How do I detect what is happening at the time of high >>load? >> It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some >>CBOS show commands >> and >> wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to >>use? > > snmp, maybe with mrtg? > > j > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jolexa at jolexa.net Thu Jul 22 09:06:58 2010 From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:06:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?How_detect_what=27s_using_Internet_connect?= =?utf-8?q?ion=3F?= In-Reply-To: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> Message-ID: <6ad0bce53d3d2d99b72e5c4f882ef5fd@localhost> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 -0500, "Jeff Jensen" wrote: > How do I detect what is happening at the time of high load? > It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some CBOS show commands and > wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to use? Hi Jeff, Maybe, you can use iftop[1] to see if the nodes are consuming alot of bandwidth.. Just an idea. [1]: http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pdw/iftop/ -Jeremy From jjensen at apache.org Thu Jul 22 09:45:01 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:45:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <6ad0bce53d3d2d99b72e5c4f882ef5fd@localhost> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <6ad0bce53d3d2d99b72e5c4f882ef5fd@localhost> Message-ID: Looks good!? Thank you - I will try it tonight... On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:06:58 -0500 Jeremy Olexa wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 -0500, "Jeff Jensen" > > wrote: > >> How do I detect what is happening at the time of high >>load? >> It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some >>CBOS show commands and >> wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to >>use? > > Hi Jeff, > Maybe, you can use iftop[1] to see if the nodes are >consuming alot of > bandwidth.. Just an idea. > > [1]: http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pdw/iftop/ > > -Jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mfunger at arbita.net Thu Jul 22 10:33:36 2010 From: mfunger at arbita.net (Matthew F. Unger) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:33:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org><6ad0bce53d3d2d99b72e5c4f882ef5fd@localhost> Message-ID: If you're looking for a replacement 678, let me know. I think I have one that is sitting doing nothing at the moment. Matt -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Jensen Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:45 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Looks good!? Thank you - I will try it tonight... On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:06:58 -0500 Jeremy Olexa wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 -0500, "Jeff Jensen" > > wrote: > >> How do I detect what is happening at the time of high >>load? >> It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some >>CBOS show commands and >> wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to >>use? > > Hi Jeff, > Maybe, you can use iftop[1] to see if the nodes are >consuming alot of > bandwidth.. Just an idea. > > [1]: http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pdw/iftop/ > > -Jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jus at krytosvirus.com Thu Jul 22 10:49:28 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 10:49:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org><6ad0bce53d3d2d99b72e5c4f882ef5fd@localhost> Message-ID: www.cisco678.com is local company you can buy from as well. As for an SNMP polling tool you can use a free little windows tool called STG that is awesome for real time snmp polling displayed visually. You should be able to poll your 678 as I have one and can poll snmp without issues. Additionally if you have another device all your traffic goes thru like the switch or firewall or something you can poll snmp on that as well if its supported. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Matthew F. Unger Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 10:34 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? If you're looking for a replacement 678, let me know. I think I have one that is sitting doing nothing at the moment. Matt -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Jensen Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:45 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Looks good!? Thank you - I will try it tonight... On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:06:58 -0500 Jeremy Olexa wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 -0500, "Jeff Jensen" > > wrote: > >> How do I detect what is happening at the time of high >>load? >> It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some >>CBOS show commands and >> wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to >>use? > > Hi Jeff, > Maybe, you can use iftop[1] to see if the nodes are >consuming alot of > bandwidth.. Just an idea. > > [1]: http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pdw/iftop/ > > -Jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Jul 22 10:57:18 2010 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:57:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] MagicJack (or competitor?) VOIP service In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1984511054.385157.1279814238587.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> http://www.nettalk.com/home No computer needed (optional). No experience with them, but it's a better solution then having to plug into a Windows computer. ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Miller" To: "TCLUG List" Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 6:00:22 PM Subject: [tclug-list] MagicJack (or competitor?) VOIP service Have any of you been using this?: http://www.magicjack.com/ I still have one last XP box running at home, and I can use it if I have to. My preference is to get rid of it and run everything on Linux (Ubuntu, mostly). Unfortunately, MagicJack seems to be promising Linux compatibility "in the near future" for several years now. Maybe I can get MagicJack to work in Linux by running XP in Virtual Box, but then I'd still be running XP. I'd rather run it natively. I'd also rather use a different product, if there is a reasonable competitor to MagicJack that will run natively on Linux. So I'd like to hear your experiences with VOIP and Linux. Mike P.S. The name sounds like a combination two famous song titles by The Who: "Magic Bus" and "Happy Jack." _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From auditodd at comcast.net Thu Jul 22 10:59:39 2010 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:59:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <663261297.385297.1279814379832.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I hear you! Right now they can only offer 7MB in my neighborhood, but I can get that with Comcast so I see no reason to switch at this time. Considering the age of my neighborhood (46+ years), if they would upgrade the copper we would probably get 20MB or better. I've already sent them a 'comment' via their website telling them that I would switch in a heartbeat if they would upgrade the copper in our neighborhood (and probably others would too). ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Jensen" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:19:06 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") I'm just hoping they actually establish the service! The fastest they offer for me currently is the 1.5 down 800 up. We do plenty of streaming, so it becomes a saturated pipe (surfing is slower, extra buffering needed). 40 down will be wonderful (5 would even be a serious improvement!)! From john.meier at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 13:12:10 2010 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:12:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] mailman bounce - Can't figure it... Message-ID: Hi all - I have a bounce scenario with mailman. ?It appears that mail can't be delivered to a certain user ([SF:dddd.com/username]) and it's disabling a different user (aaaa at bbbb.com). ?Here's a snippet: =============================================== This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: The_List Member: aaaa at bbbb.com Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. The triggering bounce notice is attached below. Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at bbbb.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: To: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:18:28 -0400 Subject: Message Delivery Failure Message could not be delivered. Error was: The mailbox is not available on this system The following recipient(s) could not be reached: [SF:dddd.com/username] Message contents follow: =============================================== First off - dddd.com/username does not look like a email address to me - could it be a local delivery mechanism? Second, there are list members with the dddd.com address (about 6 of them). They are not being disabled for excessive bounces. Third - why is aaaa at bbbb.com being disable on account of dddd.com/username not being reached?!?! aaaa at bbbb.com is actually a mailman admin and moderator for the mailman service. I just don't get it. From tclug at jfoo.org Thu Jul 22 13:36:20 2010 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:36:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] mailman bounce - Can't figure it... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18144.167.206.189.6.1279823780.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> > Third - why is aaaa at bbbb.com being disable on account of > dddd.com/username not being reached?!?! aaaa at bbbb.com is actually a > mailman admin and moderator for the mailman service. does mail to aaaa at bbbb.com get forwarded to username at dddd.com? j From tclug at jfoo.org Thu Jul 22 13:36:20 2010 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:36:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] mailman bounce - Can't figure it... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18144.167.206.189.6.1279823780.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> > Third - why is aaaa at bbbb.com being disable on account of > dddd.com/username not being reached?!?! aaaa at bbbb.com is actually a > mailman admin and moderator for the mailman service. does mail to aaaa at bbbb.com get forwarded to username at dddd.com? j From tclug at jfoo.org Thu Jul 22 13:51:39 2010 From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:51:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] mailman bounce - Can't figure it... In-Reply-To: <18144.167.206.189.6.1279823780.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> References: <18144.167.206.189.6.1279823780.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> Message-ID: <53761.167.206.189.6.1279824699.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> > does mail to aaaa at bbbb.com get forwarded to username at dddd.com? sorry for the double post - not sure why reply-to-all in squirrelmail did that. j From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 13:55:48 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:55:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: <663261297.385297.1279814379832.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <663261297.385297.1279814379832.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > Right now they can only offer 7MB in my neighborhood, but I can get that > with Comcast so I see no reason to switch at this time. I'm paying something like $65/mo for Comcast and Qwest is charging $29.99/mo for the first 6 months with no contract. Is the money a reason to switch? Then, if you go back to Comcast in 6 months, they'll give you a better deal than you're getting from them now. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 13:52:26 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:52:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] MagicJack (or competitor?) VOIP service In-Reply-To: <1984511054.385157.1279814238587.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1984511054.385157.1279814238587.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > http://www.nettalk.com/home > > No computer needed (optional). > > No experience with them, but it's a better solution then having to plug into a Windows computer. Thanks for the tip, Todd. I definitely like the idea of skipping the computer altogether (I suppose the little box is essentially a little computer). I'm going to get both, compare them, and return the loser. Mike From ryanjcole at me.com Thu Jul 22 14:06:04 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:06:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <663261297.385297.1279814379832.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <882FF946-6B35-47C5-96F4-46C4F3BB72E2@me.com> Comcast won't give you that deal for 12-24 months after you cancel your account. -- Ryan On Jul 22, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > >> Right now they can only offer 7MB in my neighborhood, but I can get that >> with Comcast so I see no reason to switch at this time. > > > I'm paying something like $65/mo for Comcast and Qwest is charging > $29.99/mo for the first 6 months with no contract. Is the money a reason > to switch? Then, if you go back to Comcast in 6 months, they'll give you > a better deal than you're getting from them now. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From sloncho at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 14:07:33 2010 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:07:33 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <663261297.385297.1279814379832.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > >> Right now they can only offer 7MB in my neighborhood, but I can get that >> with Comcast so I see no reason to switch at this time. > > > I'm paying something like $65/mo for Comcast and Qwest is charging > $29.99/mo for the first 6 months with no contract. ?Is the money a reason > to switch? ?Then, if you go back to Comcast in 6 months, they'll give you > a better deal than you're getting from them now. > > Mike > There will be about 50$ installation fee each time you switch, so its about 10$ month more. -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 14:50:13 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:50:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: <882FF946-6B35-47C5-96F4-46C4F3BB72E2@me.com> References: <663261297.385297.1279814379832.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <882FF946-6B35-47C5-96F4-46C4F3BB72E2@me.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Comcast won't give you that deal for 12-24 months after you cancel your > account. Hey, if they want to help Qwest, that's great for Qwest and Comcast policy will hurt them. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 14:52:44 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:52:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Qwest special ending (was "FIOS first experience") In-Reply-To: References: <663261297.385297.1279814379832.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Sunny wrote: > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >> >>> Right now they can only offer 7MB in my neighborhood, but I can get >>> that with Comcast so I see no reason to switch at this time. >> >> >> I'm paying something like $65/mo for Comcast and Qwest is charging >> $29.99/mo for the first 6 months with no contract. ?Is the money a >> reason to switch? ?Then, if you go back to Comcast in 6 months, they'll >> give you a better deal than you're getting from them now. > > > There will be about 50$ installation fee each time you switch, so its > about 10$ month more. Sort of. With Qwest there was a $70 modem to buy, and there was a $50 installation fee, but they gave me a $50 Visa Gift Card that I could use to pay off the bill. I'm not sure that the modem is worthless after 6 months, so the Qwest service may cost $42/mo for 6 months with the modem cost added in. Mike From tgerber at intertech.com Thu Jul 22 14:39:53 2010 From: tgerber at intertech.com (Troy Gerber) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:39:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mercurial Training Message-ID: <25E3445C9D618B4CA096A2BB1476E6BC6C3F6C22D4@iexchange.intertech-inc.com> John Gately, Would there be a group of people interested in Mercurial training? If so, we'd be able to teach an entire class otherwise if it is just one person interested, we'd probably not find many more to fill up a class. [cid:image003.jpg at 01CB29AB.BF38D3B0] Instructors Who Consult | Consultants Who Teach Troy Gerber | Training Account Executive | Office: 651-994-8558 ext. 25 | Mobile: 612-581-3016 | tgerber at intertech.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100722/a2ec4dff/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1910 bytes Desc: image003.jpg Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100722/a2ec4dff/attachment-0001.jpg From john.meier at gmail.com Thu Jul 22 16:23:03 2010 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:23:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] mailman bounce - Can't figure it... In-Reply-To: <18144.167.206.189.6.1279823780.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> References: <18144.167.206.189.6.1279823780.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org> Message-ID: On Thursday, July 22, 2010, John Gateley wrote: > >> Third - why is aaaa at bbbb.com being disable on account of >> dddd.com/username not being reached?!?! ? aaaa at bbbb.com is actually a >> mailman admin and moderator for the mailman service. > > does mail to aaaa at bbbb.com get forwarded to username at dddd.com? Nope. No forwards. > > j > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jjensen at apache.org Fri Jul 23 17:29:23 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:29:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org> Show errors still doesn't have anything for errors, but stats eth0 has: # of Rx Dma Overrun Errors: 744 Stats wan0 has: # of CRC errors: 184 Stats wan0-0 has: # of packets Rx errors: 221 Is the DMA overrun a normal thing or hinting at a problem? I've been googling for info on it but haven't found anything definitive (lots of people had problems, various other things, but I didn't find an answer if it is something to resolve or not). I've also been running iftop and also discovered ifstatus. They only show the net traffic from the server it's running on (of course - all plugged into a switch, so they are isolated). To see what traffic levels are with each device, does it require a managed switch or is there another way? I have a Netgear JGS524, which is unmanaged. On a family shared Windows machine, between the wife's ton of FF browser tabs open and refreshing (timing out too) and son's Steam service for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, that PC had a lot of traffic. Just had the slow response again, and stopping both caused the traffic load to drop. Can't believe that "little" traffic would cause: PING 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=2281 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=2446 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=3542 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=3848 ms ^C --- 10.0.0.1 ping statistics --- 8 packets transmitted, 4 received, 50% packet loss, time 7631ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 2281.878/3029.851/3848.356/676.891 ms, pipe 4 And with them stopped: PING 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.853 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.825 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.842 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.843 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.847 ms ^C --- 10.0.0.1 ping statistics --- 5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4448ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.825/0.842/0.853/0.009 ms Might have found a couple of the causes (or all!?). -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Justin Krejci Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 4:12 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? What version of code are you running? Maybe a newer version could help. Check "show errors" and also look at the eth interface stats for various error counters on the cisco. Additionally some models of the 67x (you didn't mention which you have) get very hot on their own so if you have it in an already warm room with minimal air flow it could be overheating and nearing the end of its life. If this seems like the case then try propping it up so the bottom is more accessible to some air flow. You could check the cable from the Cisco, try replacing it with another cable. Is it going to a switch? Try another switch port. Basic things like that can sometimes identify/eliminate during troubleshooting and are super easy to try. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jeff Jensen" Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Lately I've had a lot of slowdown with my DSL router. None of the machines appear to be downloading, streaming, etc. (they could be, but didn't look like it to me). For example, at the moment, pinging the router: PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1686 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1326 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=1163 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=762 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=992 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 5 received, 16% packet loss, time 5488ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 762.641/1186.396/1686.273/312.092 ms, pipe 2 After I reboot it, it's back to sub-millisecond time. But after a short while, it's back up there. It's really slowing down even casual surfing, and the wife keeps yelling at me about it! :-/ And then sometimes, like now, it is back to normal (but it was slow response for awhile, maybe an hour or more?): PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.811 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.862 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.873 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.841 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.810 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.830 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5225ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.810/0.837/0.873/0.044 ms How do I detect what is happening at the time of high load? It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some CBOS show commands and wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to use? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 18:06:13 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Jul 2010, Jeff Jensen wrote: > On a family shared Windows machine, between the wife's ton of FF browser > tabs open and refreshing (timing out too) and son's Steam service for > Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, that PC had a lot of traffic. Because "everyone" has FF, I'm going to guess that FF causes almost none of the problem. So Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 sounds like the best suspect. Maybe you can poke around like this and dig something up: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22call+of+duty%22+router I'm curious about what it is doing to cause such severe problems. Mike From jjensen at apache.org Fri Jul 23 19:30:08 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:30:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org> Message-ID: <00ab01cb2ac7$63684f30$2a38ed90$@org> Thanks again... This one has an interesting tidbit: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/951942-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/52279867 "Steam apparently makes upwards of 40-50 UDP requests when it listens... so it times your router out by over-saturating the connection." That statement vaguely could describe what I see. What I don't know is if the Steam server running in the background is also a server for other players...if it is, then that would also explain traffic use! A snippet on that from http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553390 : "1 player in your server is equivalent to 35 kilobits. So if your speed is 384kb upload, you should be able to handle about 12 players. Also, if you have 512kb upload, then you should be able to handle about 16 players." -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 6:06 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? On Fri, 23 Jul 2010, Jeff Jensen wrote: > On a family shared Windows machine, between the wife's ton of FF browser > tabs open and refreshing (timing out too) and son's Steam service for > Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, that PC had a lot of traffic. Because "everyone" has FF, I'm going to guess that FF causes almost none of the problem. So Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 sounds like the best suspect. Maybe you can poke around like this and dig something up: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22call+of+duty%22+router I'm curious about what it is doing to cause such severe problems. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jus at krytosvirus.com Fri Jul 23 20:29:36 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 01:29:36 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <00ab01cb2ac7$63684f30$2a38ed90$@org> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org><00ab01cb2ac7$63684f30$2a38ed90$@org> Message-ID: <171154433-1279935015-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1854210214-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Your 10mbps ethernet interface on the router should be fine with any amount of traffic from the DSL. The 678 is not stateful I am pretty sure so I doubt it has any connection exhaustion issues. I have in any case run many high volume nmap scans across my 678 with never an issue. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jeff Jensen" Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:30:08 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Thanks again... This one has an interesting tidbit: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/951942-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/52279867 "Steam apparently makes upwards of 40-50 UDP requests when it listens... so it times your router out by over-saturating the connection." That statement vaguely could describe what I see. What I don't know is if the Steam server running in the background is also a server for other players...if it is, then that would also explain traffic use! A snippet on that from http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553390 : "1 player in your server is equivalent to 35 kilobits. So if your speed is 384kb upload, you should be able to handle about 12 players. Also, if you have 512kb upload, then you should be able to handle about 16 players." -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 6:06 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? On Fri, 23 Jul 2010, Jeff Jensen wrote: > On a family shared Windows machine, between the wife's ton of FF browser > tabs open and refreshing (timing out too) and son's Steam service for > Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, that PC had a lot of traffic. Because "everyone" has FF, I'm going to guess that FF causes almost none of the problem. So Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 sounds like the best suspect. Maybe you can poke around like this and dig something up: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22call+of+duty%22+router I'm curious about what it is doing to cause such severe problems. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From taanerud at comcast.net Fri Jul 23 21:17:40 2010 From: taanerud at comcast.net (Timothy Aanerud) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 21:17:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] July 2010 meeting Message-ID: <4C4A4D44.1010104@comcast.net> Is there a July meeting on 7/24? I have not seen an announcement. From tclug at freakzilla.com Fri Jul 23 22:56:21 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:56:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog Message-ID: Ok, this is a complicated one. Well, the question is. Kinda. I'm building a newmedia center PC, and I've decided it doesn't need to have a harddrive in it (since all the media is on a media server). I was going to just boot it off a flashdrive, but then I decided, hey, why even have any physical media at all? So I'm trying to do a diskless client netboot. I did install the OS on a flashdrive, then create a netboot initrd image, copy those all to a PXE server, and actually got the thing to boot. It goes pretty far but then it hangs. I'm not sure at what point it's hanging, since I can't login and look at logs. I /think/ it's definitely getting past the kernel boot part, and I think it's doing some of the init stuff. The last message I see on the screen (which CLEARS before this comes up) is that portmap has died. I thought that might be important because it's mounting root from nfs. However, it did used to get PAST that point and complain that I need -o nolock or statd running and THEN hang, but since I added that option it dosn't display that maessage.. so I think it's getting past the portmap thing. It is either not mounting root or it already has root mounted from before (I see an nfs authenticate right after the PXE boot). I tried to get it to do remote syslog, but Ubuntu does some weird things with syslog. All the documents I can find online are for ancient versions of Ubuntu. I've tried this with Ubuntu Server 10.04, and with Mythbuntu based on Ubuntu Desktop 10.04 (I had to do a lot more hacking to get a desktop OS to netboot). So I'm wondering if anyone has any diskless-client tips, or remote syslog tips on Ubuntu. TIA! -Yaron -- From dean at ripperd.com Sat Jul 24 13:37:36 2010 From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:37:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <171154433-1279935015-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1854210214-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org><00ab01cb2ac7$63684f30$2a38ed90$@org> <171154433-1279935015-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1854210214-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4C4B32F0.9020707@ripperd.com> 678's don't have much cpu power by today's standards. And NAT is always somewhat stateful, it has to learn and keep a mapping of ip and port combos that have been assigned statically and dynamically and keep track of when they have been terminated or need to time out. A while back when I used gamespy to do a ping and game status check on a list of 1000+ servers the first 50 or so would always ping good, and the rest were 1000+ms. When pinged individually they would ping well. The 678 can't process high numbers of packets real well. This is likely related to the OP's issue. On 7/23/2010 8:29 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Your 10mbps ethernet interface on the router should be fine with any amount of traffic from the DSL. The 678 is not stateful I am pretty sure so I doubt it has any connection exhaustion issues. I have in any case run many high volume nmap scans across my 678 with never an issue. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > From jus at krytosvirus.com Sat Jul 24 14:19:30 2010 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 19:19:30 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <4C4B32F0.9020707@ripperd.com> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org><00ab01cb2ac7$63684f30$2a38ed90$@org><171154433-1279935015-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1854210214-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><4C4B32F0.9020707@ripperd.com> Message-ID: <243577921-1279999210-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2121803101-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> You are of course correct. I do not use NAT on my 678 as I use a block of addresses so my case is not a fair comparison. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Dean Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:37:36 To: Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? 678's don't have much cpu power by today's standards. And NAT is always somewhat stateful, it has to learn and keep a mapping of ip and port combos that have been assigned statically and dynamically and keep track of when they have been terminated or need to time out. A while back when I used gamespy to do a ping and game status check on a list of 1000+ servers the first 50 or so would always ping good, and the rest were 1000+ms. When pinged individually they would ping well. The 678 can't process high numbers of packets real well. This is likely related to the OP's issue. On 7/23/2010 8:29 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Your 10mbps ethernet interface on the router should be fine with any amount of traffic from the DSL. The 678 is not stateful I am pretty sure so I doubt it has any connection exhaustion issues. I have in any case run many high volume nmap scans across my 678 with never an issue. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jjensen at apache.org Sat Jul 24 15:38:31 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 15:38:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <4C4B32F0.9020707@ripperd.com> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org><00ab01cb2ac7$63684f30$2a38ed90$@org> <171154433-1279935015-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1854210214-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C4B32F0.9020707@ripperd.com> Message-ID: <002101cb2b70$38198840$a84c98c0$@org> I did a quick experiment: in FF, launched the wife's folder of fav bookmarks using the "Open All in Tabs" (14 tabs). It caused the ping results to go > 1000ms, bouncing close to 2000ms. PING 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.859 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.843 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=10.7 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=205 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=621 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=64 time=325 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=64 time=1392 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=10 ttl=64 time=1882 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=12 ttl=64 time=1346 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=13 ttl=64 time=1898 ms 64 bytes from 10.0.0.1: icmp_seq=15 ttl=64 time=618 ms --- 10.0.0.1 ping statistics --- 473 packets transmitted, 372 received, 21% packet loss, time 472151ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.792/717.670/1898.848/420.405 ms, pipe 2 They "never used to take this long"; quoting my trophy wife. I just did a dsl speed test. Looks like my connection is operating at 600 down! http://i.dslr.net/imc/0/0/6/9/90695218.png Qwest's own: http://minneapolis.speedtest.qwest.net Download Speed: 0.521 Mbps (0.1 MB/sec transfer rate) Upload Speed: 0.379 Mbps (0 MB/sec transfer rate) The closest server located in Minneapolis, MN performed this test with a latency of 97 milliseconds. Test Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:31:14 PM So what I need to find out is this a temp thing, config problem, or Qwest toasted something on me... it should be near the 1.5 speed down (like it used to be). Submitting a Visi ticket. And thank you a ton for the replies and advice - I learned some new tools! First round on me if there is ever another beer run. -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Dean Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:38 PM To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? 678's don't have much cpu power by today's standards. And NAT is always somewhat stateful, it has to learn and keep a mapping of ip and port combos that have been assigned statically and dynamically and keep track of when they have been terminated or need to time out. A while back when I used gamespy to do a ping and game status check on a list of 1000+ servers the first 50 or so would always ping good, and the rest were 1000+ms. When pinged individually they would ping well. The 678 can't process high numbers of packets real well. This is likely related to the OP's issue. On 7/23/2010 8:29 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Your 10mbps ethernet interface on the router should be fine with any amount of traffic from the DSL. The 678 is not stateful I am pretty sure so I doubt it has any connection exhaustion issues. I have in any case run many high volume nmap scans across my 678 with never an issue. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rick at real-time.com Sat Jul 24 21:10:22 2010 From: rick at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 21:10:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <002101cb2b70$38198840$a84c98c0$@org> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <007001cb2ab6$851213c0$8f363b40$@org><00ab01cb2ac7$63684f30$2a38ed90$@org> <171154433-1279935015-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1854210214-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4C4B32F0.9020707@ripperd.com> <002101cb2b70$38198840$a84c98c0$@org> Message-ID: <4C4B9D0E.3040800@real-time.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 7/24/10 3:38 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > I did a quick experiment: in FF, launched the wife's folder of fav bookmarks > using the "Open All in Tabs" (14 tabs). It caused the ping results to go > > 1000ms, bouncing close to 2000ms. Is FireFox link pre-fetching still enabled? http://www.technipages.com/disable-the-firefox-prefetch-setting.html If so, any improvement when it's disabled? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFMS50O+MScNFyJ3yIRAppDAKCK17hH6Xadhcjz5YOIPeDYs+cgiQCfeR3a 0nFL3kVUszxVCVk0dOnlgds= =UAyl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jjensen at apache.org Sat Jul 24 23:12:49 2010 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 23:12:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <005b01cb2957$6b89aef0$429d0cd0$@org> <282488716-1279789930-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1632959639-@bda2583.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <003501cb2baf$a8f65c20$fae31460$@org> Well, I hope it is not coincidence... I propped the DSL router up and speeds started creeping up (per dslreports and Qwest speed tests) until about 15 minutes later it was back at the max. It's been quite awhile now and still working at max. So after many years of use (9+), it decides to get temp sensitive!? Perhaps it is the EOL you mentioned... -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Justin Krejci Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 4:12 AM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? What version of code are you running? Maybe a newer version could help. Check "show errors" and also look at the eth interface stats for various error counters on the cisco. Additionally some models of the 67x (you didn't mention which you have) get very hot on their own so if you have it in an already warm room with minimal air flow it could be overheating and nearing the end of its life. If this seems like the case then try propping it up so the bottom is more accessible to some air flow. You could check the cable from the Cisco, try replacing it with another cable. Is it going to a switch? Try another switch port. Basic things like that can sometimes identify/eliminate during troubleshooting and are super easy to try. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Jeff Jensen" Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:36:07 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? Lately I've had a lot of slowdown with my DSL router. None of the machines appear to be downloading, streaming, etc. (they could be, but didn't look like it to me). For example, at the moment, pinging the router: PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=1686 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1326 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=1163 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=762 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=992 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 5 received, 16% packet loss, time 5488ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 762.641/1186.396/1686.273/312.092 ms, pipe 2 After I reboot it, it's back to sub-millisecond time. But after a short while, it's back up there. It's really slowing down even casual surfing, and the wife keeps yelling at me about it! :-/ And then sometimes, like now, it is back to normal (but it was slow response for awhile, maybe an hour or more?): PING dslrouter (10.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.811 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.862 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.873 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.841 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.810 ms 64 bytes from dslrouter (10.0.0.1): icmp_seq=6 ttl=64 time=0.830 ms ^C --- dslrouter ping statistics --- 6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5225ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.810/0.837/0.873/0.044 ms How do I detect what is happening at the time of high load? It is a Cisco CBOS DSL router. I've been trying some CBOS show commands and wondering about either Linux or Windows commands/apps to use? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Sun Jul 25 03:35:45 2010 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 03:35:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] How detect what's using Internet connection? In-Reply-To: <003501cb2baf$a8f65c20$fae31460$@org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Jensen > > Well, I hope it is not coincidence... I propped the DSL router up > and speeds > started creeping up (per dslreports and Qwest speed tests) until about 15 > minutes later it was back at the max. It's been quite awhile now > and still > working at max. So after many years of use (9+), it decides to get temp > sensitive!? Perhaps it is the EOL you mentioned... Might just be 9 years of internal dust buildup reducing cooling efficiency. Should NOT be any actual EOL for reasonably designed electronics, but over-stressed parts (eg, over-heated) can die prematurely. Chuck From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 06:54:39 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:54:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:56 PM, Yaron wrote: > I did install the OS on a flashdrive, then create a netboot initrd image, copy > those all to a PXE server, and actually got the thing to boot. It goes pretty > far but then it hangs. Congrats on getting this far, remote booting of full distros is an interesting proposition to say the least. > I'm not sure at what point it's hanging, since I can't login and look at logs. May I suggest redirecting the kernel logs to a TTY? I did this many moons ago, and I vaguely remember how. On Ubuntu, look at the file /etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf. You may have to play with it, but try adding a line like: *.* /dev/tty3 To dump ALL logging to console tty3. Then you can watch the bootup and perhaps get a useful log message. Brian From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Jul 26 13:11:59 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:11:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Brian Wall wrote: > Congrats on getting this far, remote booting of full distros is an > interesting proposition to say the least. We used to do that all the time in the Olden Days (; I think I still have an IBM thinclient lying around, that was the ONLY way to boot those. > May I suggest redirecting the kernel logs to a TTY? The thing about that is I don't think it's getting far enough to have ttys yet. Or consoles, or something. I guess I could try tty1 (or is it tty0?) but that brings me to another problem... I don't know what syslog is doing anymore in ubuntu. There was no /etc/syslog.conf on the system, and I'm not even sure the package which did provide it (and a syslogd) is actually the same as what I'm used to... I don't kow why they have to keep CHANGING things (don't even get me started on 'upstart'). -Yaron -- From chrome at real-time.com Mon Jul 26 13:27:35 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:27:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog In-Reply-To: ; from tclug@freakzilla.com on Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 01:11:59PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20100726132735.C15639@real-time.com> On 07/26 01:11 , Yaron wrote: > I don't kow why they have to keep CHANGING > things (don't even get me started on 'upstart'). They're trying to compete with Windows. ;) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Jul 26 13:40:33 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:40:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog In-Reply-To: <20100726132735.C15639@real-time.com> References: <20100726132735.C15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 07/26 01:11 , Yaron wrote: >> I don't kow why they have to keep CHANGING >> things (don't even get me started on 'upstart'). > > They're trying to compete with Windows. ;) If Ubuntu starts having a registry, I'm leaving!!! -Yaron -- From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Jul 26 13:43:44 2010 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:43:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog In-Reply-To: <20100726132735.C15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Carl Wilhelm > Soderstrom > > On 07/26 01:11 , Yaron wrote: > > I don't kow why they have to keep CHANGING > > things (don't even get me started on 'upstart'). > > They're trying to compete with Windows. ;) Hmmm.. a stupidity and obfuscation match! Not fun to watch! Chuck From smcgrath23 at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 13:46:58 2010 From: smcgrath23 at gmail.com (smcgrath23 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:46:58 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog In-Reply-To: References: <20100726132735.C15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <1902709245-1280170030-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-236606378-@bda799.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> GConf? Sent from my BlackBerry? by Boost Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Yaron Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:40:33 To: TCLUG Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 07/26 01:11 , Yaron wrote: >> I don't kow why they have to keep CHANGING >> things (don't even get me started on 'upstart'). > > They're trying to compete with Windows. ;) If Ubuntu starts having a registry, I'm leaving!!! -Yaron -- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Jul 26 14:27:51 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:27:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Netboot/Diskless Client/remote syslog In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I actually just solved this... COMPLETELY BY ACCIDENT. I now have a fully-booting system with zero harddrives. What happened was, originally (as in three, four days ago) I was seeing this message: mount.nfs: Either use '-o nolock' to keep locks local, or start statd So I fixed that by adding 'nolock' to the mount options in fstab. THAT WAS BREAKING IT. I changed it back to defaults and now no problem. Now to convert my media center!!! (: -Yaron -- From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Mon Jul 26 14:51:20 2010 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:51:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] July 2010 meeting In-Reply-To: <4C4A4D44.1010104@comcast.net> References: <4C4A4D44.1010104@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4C4DE738.9080202@Goecke-Dolan.com> I am working on a Penguins Unbound Meeting for July. I am going to be out of town, so I am trying to make sure we can still use the meeting space. And I am trying to arrange a speaker. I have had a couple of offer, but they were for just part of the meeting. I was hoping to have someone willing to talk for the whole meeting. Any volunteers ? I hope (need) to get it figured soon, and I will let you all know. Thanks. ==>brian. Timothy Aanerud wrote: > Is there a July meeting on 7/24? I have not seen an announcement. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jolexa at jolexa.net Mon Jul 26 21:11:30 2010 From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:11:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: Old IBM T42 laptop, Antec Desktop Enclosure Message-ID: <4C4E4052.1010700@jolexa.net> Hi, The classifieds link seems to be broken on tclug.org. IBM T42 laptop, original parts except heatsink/fan was replaced by myself. Might overheat under load but was my underclocked fileserver with no issues. No OS installed, drive zeroed. With docking station (if I find it). Antec Metallic Silver Case, Antec 1080 Plus SOHO enclosure. This thing is heavy duty steel (30 lbs). Approx 30-36 inches tall. Some surface scratches, cheapo 450W PSU included for free. http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/antecplus1080/ Best offers considered, cheaper if you pickup in Roseville during business hours, contact me in private. -Jeremy From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 27 09:55:22 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:55:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case Message-ID: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy sometimes when editing. Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that way. I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From jucziz6 at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 10:18:27 2010 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:18:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: I'm leaning toward the Corsair CC800DW Obsidian 800D Full Tower Case. Plenty of room, comes with a water cooled CPU setup. On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, > because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy > sometimes when editing. > > Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. > I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being > backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that > way. > > I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. > I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a > scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black > cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; > so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. > > Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? > > Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? > > In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in > New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) > > -- > Carl Soderstrom > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com Tue Jul 27 10:20:53 2010 From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:20:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20100727102053.f588d34e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Youtube works fine for me on this 9-year-old IBM NetVista with a 1 GHz processor and only 256 MB of RAM. (I bought this old computer used in 2007 for $50). Are you sure you really need to replace your 1.1 GHz K7? Wouldn't an upgrade be more cost effective? Even if you need to replace your old computer, why not replace it with a newer used computer? Desktop computers depreciate rapidly, and I'm sure you can buy a lot of desktop computing power for $50 or less. On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:55:22 -0500 Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, > because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy > sometimes when editing. > > Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. > I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being > backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that > way. > > I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. > I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a > scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black > cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; > so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. > > Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? > > Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? > > In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in > New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) > > -- > Carl Soderstrom > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user From jpschewe at mtu.net Tue Jul 27 10:27:01 2010 From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:27:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] NFS timeout issues - where to look Message-ID: <4C4EFAC5.3040104@mtu.net> I've got a Linux fileserver running under Xen and a NetBSD compute server also running under Xen on the same host. The compute server mounts the fileserver via NFS. During large compiles I keep getting messages about the fileserver not responding and then being alive again. I see nothing in the fileserver message logs. Any ideas where to look for parameters to tune to fix this? I don't see this behavior from my Linux clients that also mount the same fileserver. -- Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information. From jucziz6 at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 10:37:54 2010 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:37:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727102053.f588d34e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <20100727102053.f588d34e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: I'd agree with Jason, although I'd like a new system as well. Currently I am using a Dell PowerEdge 2400 Dual 733 PIII with 1.5G of memory and 6 18g SCSI hard drives. Really like the system but it is very old. On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user wrote: > Youtube works fine for me on this 9-year-old IBM NetVista with a 1 GHz processor and only 256 MB of RAM. ?(I bought this old computer used in 2007 for $50). ?Are you sure you really need to replace your 1.1 GHz K7? ?Wouldn't an upgrade be more cost effective? ?Even if you need to replace your old computer, why not replace it with a newer used computer? ?Desktop computers depreciate rapidly, and I'm sure you can buy a lot of desktop computing power for $50 or less. > > On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:55:22 -0500 > Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > >> So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, >> because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy >> sometimes when editing. >> >> Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. >> I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being >> backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that >> way. >> >> I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. >> I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a >> scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black >> cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; >> so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. >> >> Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? >> >> Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? >> >> In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in >> New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) >> >> -- >> Carl Soderstrom >> Systems Administrator >> Real-Time Enterprises >> www.real-time.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 27 10:40:45 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:40:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727102053.f588d34e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>; from jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com on Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 10:20:53AM -0500 References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <20100727102053.f588d34e.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> Message-ID: <20100727104045.B28146@real-time.com> On 07/27 10:20 , Jason Hsu, embedded engineer, Linux user wrote: > Youtube works fine for me on this 9-year-old IBM NetVista with a 1 GHz processor and only 256 MB of RAM. Yeah, the video card probably has a lot to do with it. It's a Matrox G450, which isn't the best. Still, I'd rather invest in new hardware now, rather than kludge along older stuff. > Are you sure you really need to replace your 1.1 GHz K7? Wouldn't an upgrade be more cost effective? I've not seen 'ugrades' to be really worth it over the long run. Generally, for a little bit more money you can get a later design of hardware which works far better. > Even if you need to replace your old computer, why not replace it with a newer used computer? Good point there. I may consider doing that. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From justin.kremer at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 10:40:54 2010 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:40:54 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? > > Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? > > In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in > New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) Are you near one of the MicroCenter locations? (No I don't work there, but their prices keep luring me back in the door!) If so, here is the shopping list for a decent computer I just built myself. I was inspired by an article about building a linux box for under $200, but I wasn't willing to stick with that budget. I would recommend a different motherboard than I used, though, as I can't get this thing to boot off a linux thumbdrive. Grr. I had to swap a CDROM in there to install. Gigabyte's updated BIOS didn't help at all, even though that was one of the fixes listed. I don't really feel like trying the beta BIOS. I actually ended up splurging for 4GB of RAM instead of 2 once I got to the store. Maybe that's overkill. This thing won't break any speed records, but my wife is impressed that she doesn't hear it when it's on. The CPU is a dual-core 3ghz, but under normal operation, I'm seeing both cores usually sitting at 800mhz. The BIOS tells me that the case fan (120mm exhaust) runs around 700-800 rpm. Case - Coolermaster Elite 331 mid-tower - $49.99 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0250924 Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H (AM3) - $94.99 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0334912 CPU - Athlon2 X2 250 (dual-core) - $62.99 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0317382 Memory - Crucal 2x1GB DDR3-1333 - $54.99 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0307433 Hard drive - have one... Total - $262.96 (add tax, and hard drive, optical drive, etc, if you need) Even with the 4GB of RAM, I was out the door for about $310. Not a bad price for new parts to make a working computer, and it should be easy to upgrade in the future. - Justin From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jul 27 10:49:15 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:49:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: First of all, youtube not working COULD be considered an advantage (; Second, what the heck are you doing in NH? (; Ok, for real. A few years ago I got a Lian-Li case. I have never, ever looked back. Whenever I build a 'real' computer I get a Lian-Li case. They're good stuff. AMD still makes the price/performance CPU. Now I usually go for the one-gen-behind chip because that makes your price go WAY down, so I might go for the Phenom II X4 965 ($180 @newegg), but I'd be very very tempted to go for the Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition (~$300 @newegg) because hey, six cores. There's a non-black-edition 2.8GHz version of that CPU for about $200, too. Those won't be as super-fast as the Intel i7, but they cost a HELL of a lot less (the i7 six core 3.2GHz chips are like $1,000). I /do/ start at the CPU and work my way from there. One of those CPUs tells you you need an AM3 motherboard. Then you go for the features you want on a motherboard (how many/what kind of SATA, LAN, etc). Newegg's advanced and power search are great for this. Then you get whatever kind of RAM you need for that. Case and PSU are independant of the rest of the computer (well, you need to make sure the PSU has the right connections for the motherboard). I usually then get enough silent fans to install and/or replace in the case, as well as a silent CPU cooler. Dammit, now you've made me want to build a computer! On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, > because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy > sometimes when editing. > > Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. > I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being > backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that > way. > > I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. > I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a > scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black > cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; > so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. > > Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? > > Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? > > In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in > New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) > > -- > Carl Soderstrom > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us Tue Jul 27 10:51:35 2010 From: Troy.A.Johnson at state.mn.us (Johnson, Troy.A (MDH)) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:51:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case -- was RE: tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 47 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A79CDD441C0204EA1D73D3FC5C065D501BA56DEC8@MNMAIL04.ead.state.mn.us> Carl, I have liked these cases (Antec P180, P182, P18x...): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129061 It is more of a mid-size case, but I like the many spaces for larger fans (two output (not counting PS) and two optional input at 120mm), and the hard drive mounts are nice as well (two cages, six slots, silicone grommets). It's quiet and you can use the supplied air input screens if you want to avoid blowing it out less often. I've seen them at Micro Center, so if there is one nearby you can check it out there. Troy -----Original Message----- 9. choosing a new computer case (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:55:22 -0500 From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Message-ID: <20100727095522.I15639 at real-time.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy sometimes when editing. Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that way. I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com ------------------------------ From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Jul 27 11:49:07 2010 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:49:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <474975415.591607.1280249347291.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I'm partial to AMD CPUs and shopping at NewEgg.com You can always look at their CPU/Motherboard combos and save some money. Considering what you are currently on, a bleeding-edge quad core may not be needed. I'm currently using a pair of dual-core AMD machines (one Linux, one WinXP). I think they are both over 18 months old and running great. Both have 4GB of RAM (yeah I know, WinXP doesn't support 4GB) and a good video card. I figure that's more than enough 'juice' for the current Linux and Windows desktops. ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:55:22 AM Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy sometimes when editing. Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that way. I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us Tue Jul 27 12:02:04 2010 From: SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us (Scott Downing) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:02:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> Message-ID: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> I know this doesn't fit your needs but I always do budget builds and I prefer the cheapest smallest case that will fit a full sized ATX board that I can find. Tends to be about 2 full sized drive bays and a 3.5" bay. My main desktop was about $40 shipped on newegg and to save space they moved the power supply to the bottom front corner which I think is pretty slick. I recently picked up a similarly small but not relocated psu case on ebay a few months ago for cheap. The metal was flimsy and the coating scratched easily but unless you're traveling around with it, which I doubt since you're looking at full towers, I don't see the need for anything fancy. Most of the time the tower just sits hidden anyways. Obviously i'm not a fan of the case modding scene, to me a case is just something to keep my cats from getting electrocuted, and I'm not sure of the point of a million optical drives these days. As for CPU, I just like to make sure they support virtualization, the lower end/older chips tend to not. -Scott -----Original Message----- From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom Sent: Tue 7/27/2010 9:55 AM To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case So I'm finally breaking down and going to get myself a new desktop machine, because Youtube is unusable on a 1.1GHz K7, and Gmail is pretty doggy sometimes when editing. Thing is, I don't have a clue what's good hardware on the market these days. I figured I'd start with a case and go from there; but perhaps I'm being backward and should start with a CPU and narrow down my choices that way. I'd really like a nice big case with lots of room to work in; ideally very quiet. I've been using a Yeong Yang YY-022 for the past 10 years or so; it's a scaled-down version of a double-wide server case. Looks like a black cube-ish thing about 13"x13"x16". It's a bit of a pain to route cables tho; so I'd be happy enough to go back to a conventional layout. Anyone have any good experiences with cases they want to relate? Any good advice on which CPU is at the sweet price point these days? In case you didn't know, I'm not physically in the Twin Cities area (I'm in New Hampshire) so telling me to go down to Tran Micro is not useful. :) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4182 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/433359f8/attachment.bin From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 12:07:45 2010 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:07:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case -- was RE: tclug-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 47 In-Reply-To: <3A79CDD441C0204EA1D73D3FC5C065D501BA56DEC8@MNMAIL04.ead.state.mn.us> References: <3A79CDD441C0204EA1D73D3FC5C065D501BA56DEC8@MNMAIL04.ead.state.mn.us> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Johnson, Troy.A (MDH) wrote: > I have liked these cases (Antec P180, P182, P18x...): > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129061 > > It is more of a mid-size case, but I like the many spaces for larger fans (two output (not counting PS) and two optional input at 120mm), and the hard drive mounts are nice as well (two cages, six slots, silicone grommets). It's quiet and you can use the supplied air input screens if you want to avoid blowing it out less often. Unless you have specific requirements, I would recommend any roomy Antec case. Quality power supplies matched with lots of internal bays. Brian From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 12:08:30 2010 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:08:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Computer case Message-ID: I am very happy with my HAF cooler master 932. 500mil fans *4. Price about 129.00, Lits of room to work with 6 optical bays and 5 hard drive bays. Low end i7 processors like the 860. Around 179 for the processor retail. An Assus mother board P7P55D deluxe has *hardware raid* and A *Linux* instant on OS built in to the board. 4gigs DDR3 1600 MHZ ram. This mother board supports pulse fan control it will vary fan speed to cooling need. You can read the temp of any drive in the bays and set a cooling plan. supports firewire and usb3.0 on the board. With a Terabyte drive. 75.00 And a Nvida Geforce 9800 should put you in Linux High Def Heaven 1920x1200. The graphics card is about 98.00 and* the driver for Linux is great* you will be in multi monitor heaven.You can have your desktop span 2 monitors. Even more if you want to add another graphics card. Dual 500 watt power supplies 120.00 I use a dual band wireless card. It is a good system and I love it. I have up graded to 3 drives now and Im looking at solid state SSD drives for a system drive bottle neck at the read write speed of a spinning hard drive. I do not play games and have had no problem mixing 12 high def audio tracks with 6 video tracks at the same time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/b75a2e4d/attachment.htm From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 27 12:26:29 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:26:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Computer case In-Reply-To: ; from ronsmailbox5@gmail.com on Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:08:30PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20100727122629.C28146@real-time.com> On 07/27 12:08 , r j wrote: > And a Nvida Geforce 9800 should put you in Linux High Def Heaven 1920x1200. Thanks for the suggestion; but I'd prefer an Open Source video driver. I was not entirely happy with the nVidia drivers I've used in the past. I understand why they're built the way they are; but I preferred a better integration with X compared to the additional performance. Anyone got video card for X/Linux recommendations from ATI or some up-and-coming card make/model? -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jul 27 12:57:48 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:57:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727122629.C28146@real-time.com> References: <20100727122629.C28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: Eh. THe nvidia drivers have come a long way. They integrate pretty well and th automatic package-based install is just fine if you dont' need the absolute latest version (not that that's hard to install). In contrast, I've had nothing but trouble with the ATI drivers and could never actually recommend gettig one. Then again, unless you are doing advanced 3D graphics, the open-source/included with xorg drivers for nvidia and/or ATI are probably just fine. Also there's Nouveau, which is an open-source accelerated nVidia driver. Not quite ready for prime-time yet, but still. On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 07/27 12:08 , r j wrote: >> And a Nvida Geforce 9800 should put you in Linux High Def Heaven 1920x1200. > > Thanks for the suggestion; but I'd prefer an Open Source video driver. I was > not entirely happy with the nVidia drivers I've used in the past. I > understand why they're built the way they are; but I preferred a better > integration with X compared to the additional performance. > > Anyone got video card for X/Linux recommendations from ATI or some > up-and-coming card make/model? > > -- > Carl Soderstrom > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From nesius at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 13:35:27 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:35:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: I use the cpu price guide at sharkey extreme when looking for the knee-of-the-curve value propositions... http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/WCPG/article.php/3894646 However - it's not so easy to see what's behind a model number anymore. They don't relate to clock frequencies or process (45nm vs. 32nm)... For an every day linux box it'll be hard to go wrong with nearly any modern chip. I'm partial to Intel, but that's me. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/55418817/attachment.htm From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 27 13:56:21 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:56:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: ; from nesius@gmail.com on Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:35:27PM -0500 References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> Message-ID: <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> On 07/27 01:35 , Robert Nesius wrote: > For an every day linux box it'll be hard to go wrong with nearly any modern > chip. I'm partial to Intel, but that's me. Yeah, I stopped worrying about processor speed back about the Pentium 200. However, Youtube and Gmail and other javascript-heavy websites are making processors slow again. :( -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jul 27 14:03:47 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:03:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > Yeah, I stopped worrying about processor speed back about the Pentium 200. > However, Youtube and Gmail and other javascript-heavy websites are making > processors slow again. :( I've found that Chrome is the perfect cure for jaascript. -Yaron -- From nesius at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 15:53:25 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:53:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Yaron wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > > Yeah, I stopped worrying about processor speed back about the Pentium > 200. > > However, Youtube and Gmail and other javascript-heavy websites are making > > processors slow again. :( > > I've found that Chrome is the perfect cure for jaascript. > After building my last rig, which had quite a few drives in it, I decided for my next case I very much want a drive mounting system where the drives sit crossways to the orientation of the case. That is to say, such that the cables for the drives face the side, not the rear. Something like this. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112289 I'd never spend that much on a case, but I like the idea of even the opitical disks kicking out from the side. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/e8ec9d62/attachment.htm From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 16:03:31 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:03:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Robert Nesius wrote: > After building my last rig, which had quite a few drives in it, I > decided for my next case I very much want a drive mounting system where > the drives sit crossways to the orientation of the case. That is to > say, such that the cables for the drives face the side, not the rear. > > Something like this. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112289 > > I'd never spend that much on a case, but I like the idea of even the > opitical disks kicking out from the side. Cool idea, but the price -- yikes! I didn't know they sold empty cases that cost $500. Mike From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Jul 27 16:13:48 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:13:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > Cool idea, but the price -- yikes! I didn't know they sold empty cases > that cost $500. One word: Thermaltake Level 10* -Yaron -- * It's so cool, that it makes that all count as one word. From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 27 16:29:42 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:29:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: ; from nesius@gmail.com on Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 03:53:25PM -0500 References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> On 07/27 03:53 , Robert Nesius wrote: > Something like this. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112289 > > I'd never spend that much on a case, but I like the idea of even the > opitical disks kicking out from the side. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811215012 this looks to be about the same thing, but only $400. I am in lust with it. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 16:32:01 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:32:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Yaron wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Cool idea, but the price -- yikes! I didn't know they sold empty cases >> that cost $500. > > One word: Thermaltake Level 10* > > * It's so cool, that it makes that all count as one word. It's so cool that it costs $800: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133089 It's hard to believe that it's worth it to put that kind of money into the case. How does it pay back? For my stereo/TV system, I wanted the computer to be quieter, so I put it on the other side of the wall. That's working for me and it is inexpensive. I use wireless keyboard/mouse and a long HDMI wire (that wire was pricey, though). Mike From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 16:39:12 2010 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:39:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: Ever give consideration to a NetPC? http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/keepass_portable I'm leaning towards this route as I rarely play games and most of the stuff I do does not require the big horsepower of a full size desktop. Or, if all you're doing is replacing the internals, why replace the case? -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/defe1e35/attachment.htm From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 27 16:41:36 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:41:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: ; from mbmiller+l@gmail.com on Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 04:32:01PM -0500 References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20100727164136.B1055@real-time.com> On 07/27 04:32 , Mike Miller wrote: > It's so cool that it costs $800: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133089 > > It's hard to believe that it's worth it to put that kind of money into the > case. How does it pay back? People will buy anything if you charge enough money for it. Especially if you call it 'art'. :) The "I've got one and you don't" factor drives a lot of human behavior. :) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 16:43:44 2010 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:43:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: Oops, wrong link. I C&P'd that for a friend to manage his accounts. Thought I had the correct link... Correct link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220006 On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 16:39, Shawn Fertch wrote: > Ever give consideration to a NetPC? > > http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/keepass_portable > > > I'm leaning towards this route as I rarely play games and most of the stuff > I do does not require the big horsepower of a full size desktop. > > > Or, if all you're doing is replacing the internals, why replace the case? > > > -- > -Shawn > -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/8be5afad/attachment.htm From nesius at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 17:04:52 2010 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:04:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727164136.B1055@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727164136.B1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom < chrome at real-time.com> wrote: > On 07/27 04:32 , Mike Miller wrote: > > It's so cool that it costs $800: > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133089 > > > > It's hard to believe that it's worth it to put that kind of money into > the > > case. How does it pay back? > > People will buy anything if you charge enough money for it. Especially if > you call it 'art'. :) > I gotta say - I personally think that Level 10 case is a very cool concept. > > The "I've got one and you don't" factor drives a lot of human behavior. :) > I don't know what you're talking about, Carl. Please excuse me while I go admire my Collector's Edition of Star Craft 2. 8^D -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/c4088e12/attachment-0001.htm From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jul 27 17:05:40 2010 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:05:40 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: ; from sfertch@gmail.com on Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 04:43:44PM -0500 References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> On 07/27 04:43 , Shawn Fertch wrote: > Oops, wrong link. I C&P'd that for a friend to manage his accounts. > Thought I had the correct link... > > Correct link: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220006 I'd like to recycle my current personal workstation into a backup server, so that's why I don't want to just replace the guts of it. the EePC looks interesting, and may do most of what I want. I'd kind of like the capability for multiple monitors, and a bit more CPU power (even my 1.4GHz laptop gets slow on a lot of flash-and-java-heavy sites); but I'll consider it. Thanks! I presume the EePC has decent support for linux? Looks like the graphics chipset is supported well. What chipset does the Gig-E interface use? -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From auditodd at comcast.net Tue Jul 27 21:00:05 2010 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:00:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <927166529.621297.1280282201464.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1657393222.621414.1280282405877.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> If anyone is looking for a nice tower that mounts the hard drives facing sideways... I've got the case for you. I have an old Intergraph GLZ2 desktop. It is basically a server grade desktop. The current 'guts' are a dual P2-400 processor setup with 512MB of RAM. A person could take out the current internals and use them for a nice firewall... And then use the tower for a nice new system. There is room for three optical drives and three hard drives (which face the left side of the case). And it uses a conventional power supply, which would need to be upgraded for newer motherboards. If anyone is interested.... Make me an offer? (Like say $20?) ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Nesius" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 3:53:25 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case After building my last rig, which had quite a few drives in it, I decided for my next case I very much want a drive mounting system where the drives sit crossways to the orientation of the case. That is to say, such that the cables for the drives face the side, not the rear. Something like this. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112289 I'd never spend that much on a case, but I like the idea of even the opitical disks kicking out from the side. -Rob From taanerud at comcast.net Tue Jul 27 21:40:36 2010 From: taanerud at comcast.net (Timothy Aanerud) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:40:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Intel ATOM N270's and Kernel's higher than 2.6.31 In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: <4C4F98A4.7080304@comcast.net> Hi, I've running Fedora 12 on a NetCom-772 single board computer. It has an Intel Atom N270 cpu and uses Intel's 945GSE chipset for video and everything else. It's connected to a 1280x1024 VGA display. ( http://www.netcomipc.com.tw/catalog/images/NC-772-1.pdf If you want to see more details about the cpu board.) Ever since the 2.6.32 kernel came out I've had nothing but trouble with video display. In some rev's it will work at 1024x768. Using Fedora 12's latest kernel 2.6.32.16-141 it won't boot in graphical mode at all. It gets part way through the boot and then the monitor starts blinking and the monitor's controller complains about no signal. It's not pretty. I've had some other weird video problems as various kernel's have been pushed out. When I've looked at /var/logs/messages, I don't see anything there that looks like a failure notice during the boot. When Unbuntu 10.4 came out I tried running that on this board; but, it too can't seem to get graphical mode. Ubuntu 10.4 uses 2.6.32 kernel so that doesn't work for what I believe is the same reason. The only way I've found to recover my mess is to manually edit /etc/grub ->../boot/grub/grub.conf and move the kernel 2.6.31 kernel option to the top of the boot choices. 1. Where can I go to figure out what might have changed in the kernel that has crippled my video display modes? 2. Is there utility that I can use to shuffle kernel boot choices beside using vi? 3. Is there a distribution out there that uses the 2.6.33 or 2.6.34 kernel or some way to load the latest kernel on Fedora without having to download source and build it? -- Timothy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/bf85a30a/attachment.htm From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 22:20:28 2010 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:20:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 17:05, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 07/27 04:43 , Shawn Fertch wrote: > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220006 > > > I'd like to recycle my current personal workstation into a backup server, > so > that's why I don't want to just replace the guts of it. > > the EePC looks interesting, and may do most of what I want. I'd kind of > like > the capability for multiple monitors, and a bit more CPU power (even my > 1.4GHz laptop gets slow on a lot of flash-and-java-heavy sites); but I'll > consider it. Thanks! > > I presume the EePC has decent support for linux? Looks like the graphics > chipset is supported well. What chipset does the Gig-E interface use? > Understandable on the current workstation conversion. But, thought I'd ask in case it hadn't been thought of. I'm not too familiar with the desktop version of the EeePC. But, I do have a EeePC 900 netbook and works great with Debian. I followed the install directions, configuration, etc from here: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC So far, everything works. While it's not an issue with the desktop, I upgraded the RAM from 256MB to 2GB (I think it's 1GB in the desk top) and upgraded the SSD from 4GB to 32GB (I believe it's a 160GB SATA HDD on the desktop). Unless I'm really taxing the system, it doesn't bog down for general day to day use. I bought a USB external DVD-RW drive for it for when needed. There are limitations to the smaller devices. But, if you primarily use it as a workstation and not do a lot of heavy graphic intensive stuff, you should be okay. Not sure how you would get around multiple monitors. I personally don't like using more than one monitor so that's never been a consideration for me. -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/02f80271/attachment.htm From sfertch at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 22:20:28 2010 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:20:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 17:05, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 07/27 04:43 , Shawn Fertch wrote: > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220006 > > > I'd like to recycle my current personal workstation into a backup server, > so > that's why I don't want to just replace the guts of it. > > the EePC looks interesting, and may do most of what I want. I'd kind of > like > the capability for multiple monitors, and a bit more CPU power (even my > 1.4GHz laptop gets slow on a lot of flash-and-java-heavy sites); but I'll > consider it. Thanks! > > I presume the EePC has decent support for linux? Looks like the graphics > chipset is supported well. What chipset does the Gig-E interface use? > Understandable on the current workstation conversion. But, thought I'd ask in case it hadn't been thought of. I'm not too familiar with the desktop version of the EeePC. But, I do have a EeePC 900 netbook and works great with Debian. I followed the install directions, configuration, etc from here: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC So far, everything works. While it's not an issue with the desktop, I upgraded the RAM from 256MB to 2GB (I think it's 1GB in the desk top) and upgraded the SSD from 4GB to 32GB (I believe it's a 160GB SATA HDD on the desktop). Unless I'm really taxing the system, it doesn't bog down for general day to day use. I bought a USB external DVD-RW drive for it for when needed. There are limitations to the smaller devices. But, if you primarily use it as a workstation and not do a lot of heavy graphic intensive stuff, you should be okay. Not sure how you would get around multiple monitors. I personally don't like using more than one monitor so that's never been a consideration for me. -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100727/02f80271/attachment-0001.htm From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 22:42:19 2010 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:42:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Intel ATOM N270's and Kernel's higher than 2.6.31 In-Reply-To: <4C4F98A4.7080304@comcast.net> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> <4C4F98A4.7080304@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Timothy Aanerud wrote: > Is there a distribution out there that uses the 2.6.33 or 2.6.34 kernel? or > some way to load the latest kernel on Fedora without having to download > source and build it? I don't know about Fedora, but for Ubuntu 10.04 you can get 2.6.34 from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.34-lucid/ (Yes, that's "Ubuntu 10.04", not "Unbuntu 10.4".) - Tony Yarusso From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 22:42:19 2010 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:42:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Intel ATOM N270's and Kernel's higher than 2.6.31 In-Reply-To: <4C4F98A4.7080304@comcast.net> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> <4C4F98A4.7080304@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Timothy Aanerud wrote: > Is there a distribution out there that uses the 2.6.33 or 2.6.34 kernel? or > some way to load the latest kernel on Fedora without having to download > source and build it? I don't know about Fedora, but for Ubuntu 10.04 you can get 2.6.34 from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.34-lucid/ (Yes, that's "Ubuntu 10.04", not "Unbuntu 10.4".) - Tony Yarusso From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Jul 28 02:45:47 2010 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:45:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > For my stereo/TV system, I wanted the computer to be quieter, so I put it > on the other side of the wall. That's working for me and it is > inexpensive. I use wireless keyboard/mouse and a long HDMI wire (that > wire was pricey, though). One of my previous media center computers was in a case that was stereo-component sized/shaped, and it sat in the media cabinet with everything else. I replaced all the fans with silent fans. I love those. I started putting them in all my computers - my office is a LOT quieter now. My current (as of Friday) media center is an Acer Aspire Revo. I hate to buy an actual system rather than build one, but when you're going for the very small form-factor it ends up being cheaper. This thing came with a bunch of things I don't need (like Windows 7 and, you know, a harddrive) which I promptly removed. It's virtually silent and can mount behind the TV (if I feel like building an adapter, do NOT get me started on the fact that the VESA Standard Mount is basically 4 interchangable standards). Anyway, Carl, you can get a 'nettop' for pretty cheap. This Revo plays 1080p video out to the TV with no problems. Well. After minimal configuration, anyway. HDMI audio, too. Saved me an extra cable. Too bad WiFi can't keep up with streaming 1080p, that'd be another cable... -Yaron -- From kcbnac at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 04:35:37 2010 From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:35:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: If considering a Nettop, pay attention to the CPU & GPU in them. Many (N270, N450) are single core but have Hyper-Threading (2 pipelines) - some, like the D510 - are dual-core and have HT on them. The Intel NM10 chipset is much newer than the 945 series - and at half the power draw. Also has a (slightly) better IGP. I ended up grabbing one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167041 for a file server/shell box/backup machine. $173 shipped, add 1 or 2 sticks of DDR2 laptop RAM and HD or two of choice. Ubuntu Server 10.04 installed just fine, no hiccups on hardware at all. If you're going to be doing more graphics-heavy stuff, they now have one with an ATI GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167042 Another $20 for a proper GPU, if you're doing web-stuff might be worth it. Adds HDMI and DVI to the VGA outputs, and a "capable" GPU. (Radeon HD 4330 is a slightly beefier version of the HD4200 - AMD's IGP solution) This will handle Youtube quite well, at least on Windows (Haven't tossed Linux on my desktop yet) Also would allow dual displays. (Generally pick two outputs, might be VGA + 1, I'm not sure) No Windows Tax, lets you reuse laptop RAM castoffs from other machines (scavenged or remaining from upgrades), and whatever HD you want (or don't - I know someone else who has the previous machine booting off a CF or SD card - they removed the internal CF slot to add a second RAM slot) My only complaint is that the 50mm fan is a little noisy when I have it sitting out in the open, haven't found its permanent home yet. If anyone knows of a quiet 50mm I'd be terribly interested... (I don't hear the air movement, I hear the high-pitched whine sometimes) From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 05:32:24 2010 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:32:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] choosing a new computer case In-Reply-To: References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> <20100727170540.C1055@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 04:35, Keith Bachman wrote: > If considering a Nettop, pay attention to the CPU & GPU in them. Many > (N270, N450) are single core but have Hyper-Threading (2 pipelines) - > some, like the D510 - are dual-core and have HT on them. > > The Intel NM10 chipset is much newer than the 945 series - and at half > the power draw. Also has a (slightly) better IGP. > > I ended up grabbing one of these: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167041 for a > file server/shell box/backup machine. $173 shipped, add 1 or 2 sticks > of DDR2 laptop RAM and HD or two of choice. Ubuntu Server 10.04 > installed just fine, no hiccups on hardware at all. > > If you're going to be doing more graphics-heavy stuff, they now have > one with an ATI GPU: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167042 > Another $20 for a proper GPU, if you're doing web-stuff might be worth > it. > > Adds HDMI and DVI to the VGA outputs, and a "capable" GPU. (Radeon HD > 4330 is a slightly beefier version of the HD4200 - AMD's IGP solution) > This will handle Youtube quite well, at least on Windows (Haven't > tossed Linux on my desktop yet) Also would allow dual displays. > (Generally pick two outputs, might be VGA + 1, I'm not sure) > > No Windows Tax, lets you reuse laptop RAM castoffs from other machines > (scavenged or remaining from upgrades), and whatever HD you want (or > don't - I know someone else who has the previous machine booting off a > CF or SD card - they removed the internal CF slot to add a second RAM > slot) > > My only complaint is that the 50mm fan is a little noisy when I have > it sitting out in the open, haven't found its permanent home yet. If > anyone knows of a quiet 50mm I'd be terribly interested... (I don't > hear the air movement, I hear the high-pitched whine sometimes) I haven't looked into all the different NetPC options yet. But, I've looked at the ASUS primarily because AFAIK it's fanless which is what I'm after. I hear the fans running in the current desktop PC and it's too loud IMO. Also, I'm trying to drop power consumption and reduce space. Thanks for the additional links. -- -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100728/a9d9a1f0/attachment.htm From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Wed Jul 28 09:15:12 2010 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:15:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Intel ATOM N270's and Kernel's higher than 2.6.31 In-Reply-To: <4C4F98A4.7080304@comcast.net> References: <20100727095522.I15639@real-time.com> <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E03C@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us> <20100727135621.E28146@real-time.com> <20100727162942.A1055@real-time.com> <4C4F98A4.7080304@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4C503B70.1000506@Goecke-Dolan.com> I have been having A LOT of trouble with the Intel video drivers on Ubuntu... A LOT. I have been running Ubuntu 10.04 on an old dell computer that has an Intel video card and it has been a struggle to say the least. Arg. I found this link http://www.ivankristianto.com/os/ubuntu/install-intel-latest-driver-to-your-ubuntu-10-04/1278/ a few weeks ago (Ubuntu specific) and it worked, and the video worked, the machine worked great. Then I did an update the other day and it went to crap again. Arg. As I understand it, it is the Intel drivers that are the problem. And it would make sense that is a kernel problem because I have all kinds of screwy crap happen with the machine, like running out of memory every other time I boot the machine... and more. Any ways, you could try 9.10, I didn't have issues with that on a laptop with inlet video drivers (the laptop wouldn't even boot 10.04 ?) Good luck! ==>brian. Timothy Aanerud wrote: > Hi, > I've running Fedora 12 on a NetCom-772 single board computer. It has an > Intel Atom N270 cpu and uses Intel's 945GSE chipset for video and > everything else. It's connected to a 1280x1024 VGA display. ( > http://www.netcomipc.com.tw/catalog/images/NC-772-1.pdf If you want to > see more details about the cpu board.) > > Ever since the 2.6.32 kernel came out I've had nothing but trouble with > video display. In some rev's it will work at 1024x768. Using Fedora > 12's latest kernel 2.6.32.16-141 it won't boot in graphical mode at > all. It gets part way through the boot and then the monitor starts > blinking and the monitor's controller complains about no signal. It's > not pretty. I've had some other weird video problems as various > kernel's have been pushed out. > > When I've looked at /var/logs/messages, I don't see anything there that > looks like a failure notice during the boot. > > When Unbuntu 10.4 came out I tried running that on this board; but, it > too can't seem to get graphical mode. Ubuntu 10.4 uses 2.6.32 kernel so > that doesn't work for what I believe is the same reason. > > The only way I've found to recover my mess is to manually edit /etc/grub > ->../boot/grub/grub.conf and move the kernel 2.6.31 kernel option to > the top of the boot choices. > > 1. Where can I go to figure out what might have changed in the kernel > that has crippled my video display modes? > 2. Is there utility that I can use to shuffle kernel boot choices > beside using vi? > 3. Is there a distribution out there that uses the 2.6.33 or 2.6.34 > kernel or some way to load the latest kernel on Fedora without > having to download source and build it? > > -- > Timothy. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Wed Jul 28 13:00:44 2010 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:00:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ Middleware Writer and General Q&A at Penguins Unbound Meeting Saturday July 31 Message-ID: <4C50704C.1000303@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday July 31st at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) Brian Wood will talk about the C++ Middleware Writer. "It's an on line code generator that writes C++ marshalling code based on user input." And then the rest of the meeting is open for Questions and Answers. Hope you will be able to make it. ==>Brian. From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Thu Jul 29 23:52:35 2010 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:52:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] **Saturday** C++ Middleware Writer and General Q&A at Penguins Unbound Meeting Saturday July 31 Message-ID: <4C525A93.9010101@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday July 31st at TIES, 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) Brian Wood will talk about the C++ Middleware Writer. "It's an on line code generator that writes C++ marshalling code based on user input." And then the rest of the meeting is open for Questions and Answers. Hope you will be able to make it. (yea I know the two messages are really close together...Sorry I got the first one out really late!) ==>Brian. From florin at iucha.net Sat Jul 31 00:10:08 2010 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:10:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Recycling in Hennepin county for Ramsey County residents? Message-ID: <20100731051007.GD8956@iris.iucha.org> Hello, I'm moving to a smaller space so I need to reduce my inventory of collectible machines. If anybody is interested in a Sun Ultra 1, Sun Sparcstation 20, 2 Sun Sparcstation 10 or a Sun Sparcstation IPX (with Weitek 80MHz clock) let me know. I also have 2 24 port Baystack managed 10/100 switches and a 20" Sony Trinitron Sun monitor. All free for the asking. I'm moving within Ramsey county but unfortunately we don't have a recycling program, so I'm thinking of paying a fee to Hennepin county and drop them off at they Brooklyn center, but I'm not sure they can/will take them. Has anybody crossed county lines for recycling purposes? I know they handle items free for residents but I don't intend to pose as one -- I'll be OK with a small fee for each item. Thanks, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100731/b3f22e6a/attachment.pgp From jima at beer.tclug.org Sat Jul 31 01:57:34 2010 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:57:34 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Recycling in Hennepin county for Ramsey County residents? In-Reply-To: <20100731051007.GD8956@iris.iucha.org> References: <20100731051007.GD8956@iris.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4C53C95E.6010601@beer.tclug.org> On 7/31/2010 12:10 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > I'm moving within Ramsey county but unfortunately we don't have a > recycling program, so I'm thinking of paying a fee to Hennepin county > and drop them off at they Brooklyn center, but I'm not sure they > can/will take them. Has anybody crossed county lines for recycling > purposes? I know they handle items free for residents but I don't > intend to pose as one -- I'll be OK with a small fee for each item. Gee, good thing you don't have to lie: Hennepin County has agreements with Anoka, Carver, Dakota, Ramsey, and Washington counties: http://tinyurl.com/2enrhvo Jima From ryanjcole at me.com Sat Jul 31 09:53:21 2010 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:53:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Recycling in Hennepin county for Ramsey County residents? In-Reply-To: <4C53C95E.6010601@beer.tclug.org> References: <20100731051007.GD8956@iris.iucha.org> <4C53C95E.6010601@beer.tclug.org> Message-ID: Yes, I've reported the same thing on here in the past when people ask. On Jul 31, 2010, at 1:57 AM, Jima wrote: > On 7/31/2010 12:10 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: >> I'm moving within Ramsey county but unfortunately we don't have a >> recycling program, so I'm thinking of paying a fee to Hennepin county >> and drop them off at they Brooklyn center, but I'm not sure they >> can/will take them. Has anybody crossed county lines for recycling >> purposes? I know they handle items free for residents but I don't >> intend to pose as one -- I'll be OK with a small fee for each item. > > Gee, good thing you don't have to lie: Hennepin County has agreements > with Anoka, Carver, Dakota, Ramsey, and Washington counties: > http://tinyurl.com/2enrhvo > > Jima > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Sat Jul 31 14:12:00 2010 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:12:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Recycling in Hennepin county for Ramsey County residents? In-Reply-To: References: <20100731051007.GD8956@iris.iucha.org> <4C53C95E.6010601@beer.tclug.org> Message-ID: <4C547580.2020900@beer.tclug.org> On 7/31/2010 9:53 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Yes, I've reported the same thing on here in the past when people ask. Geez, sounds like we need a faq.tclug.org wiki, or something. ;-) Jima From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Sat Jul 31 15:57:29 2010 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:57:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux certifications. Message-ID: I am looking at getting a Linux certification. Is anyone on the LUG RHCT or RHCE certified ? I have heard The LPI certs do not carry much weight, and that Linux+ is very basic. Would locking myself in to a distribution specific certification be a waste of money ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20100731/6b48df4a/attachment.htm