From admin at lctn.org  Fri Apr  1 08:32:31 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 08:32:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line
In-Reply-To: <20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com>
References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> <20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org>

  The error about /var/www not being the home directory is because the 
script is launched by the www-data user.

I have tried changing group membership, etc, but still get this error:


Apr  1 08:18:21 linuxmint zmfilter[15681]: INF [Executing 
'/usr/local/sbin/alert /usr/share/zoneminder/events/12/6454']
Apr  1 08:18:21 linuxmint pulseaudio[15687]: core-util.c: Home directory 
/var/www not ours.
Apr  1 08:27:28 linuxmint pulseaudio[15862]: lock-autospawn.c: Cannot 
access autospawn lock.
Apr  1 08:27:28 linuxmint pulseaudio[15862]: main.c: Failed to acquire 
autospawn lock

**

On 03/31/2011 02:04 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote:
> On 03/31 01:56 , Raymond Norton wrote:
>>    I'm trying to get an alert sound file to play via the command line
>> when an alarm is tripped. It works when I am manually fire of the script
>> at the counsel, and I can see the script called in syslog when the alarm
>> is tripped, but do not get any sound then.
>>
>> When I used mplayer to play the file I would get pulseaudio errors about
>> /var/www not being the home directory.
> try running the command from 'cron' owned by the user who runs the alarm
> software.
>
> Make sure that user has permission to access the audio devices.
>
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From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 11:09:18 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:09:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line
In-Reply-To: <4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org>
References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> <20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com>
	<4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

>  The error about /var/www not being the home directory is because the
> script is launched by the www-data user.
>
> I have tried changing group membership, etc, but still get this error:
>
>
> Apr  1 08:18:21 linuxmint zmfilter[15681]: INF [Executing
> '/usr/local/sbin/alert /usr/share/zoneminder/events/12/6454']
> Apr  1 08:18:21 linuxmint pulseaudio[15687]: core-util.c: Home directory
> /var/www not ours.
> Apr  1 08:27:28 linuxmint pulseaudio[15862]: lock-autospawn.c: Cannot
> access autospawn lock.
> Apr  1 08:27:28 linuxmint pulseaudio[15862]: main.c: Failed to acquire
> autospawn lock
>


You can tweak the environment of a cron job by setting env vars before the
invocation.

i.e.,  HOME=/desired/homedir '/usr/local/sbin/alert
/usr/share/zoneminder/events/12/6454'

Give it a whirl and see if it works.

-Rob
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From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 11:20:51 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:20:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> <20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com>
	<4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org>
	<BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinmG0+6nkv+7G_YTtgCiuRLt1FDwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
>
>>  The error about /var/www not being the home directory is because the
>> script is launched by the www-data user.
>>
>> I have tried changing group membership, etc, but still get this error:
>>
>>
>> Apr  1 08:18:21 linuxmint zmfilter[15681]: INF [Executing
>> '/usr/local/sbin/alert /usr/share/zoneminder/events/12/6454']
>> Apr  1 08:18:21 linuxmint pulseaudio[15687]: core-util.c: Home directory
>> /var/www not ours.
>> Apr  1 08:27:28 linuxmint pulseaudio[15862]: lock-autospawn.c: Cannot
>> access autospawn lock.
>> Apr  1 08:27:28 linuxmint pulseaudio[15862]: main.c: Failed to acquire
>> autospawn lock
>>
>
>
> You can tweak the environment of a cron job by setting env vars before the
> invocation.
>
> i.e.,  HOME=/desired/homedir '/usr/local/sbin/alert
> /usr/share/zoneminder/events/12/6454'
>
>
Actually - I wouldn't use single quotes around the command line and options
either... I just copy-pasted from your log excerpt...

-Rob
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From admin at lctn.org  Fri Apr  1 11:23:11 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:23:11 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org>
	<20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com><4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org><BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <902604979-1301674969-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-610861605-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

The script is called by camera motion, via zoneminder, not cron. Actually I tested it in cron and it worked fine. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:09:18 
To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 11:25:50 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:25:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line
In-Reply-To: <902604979-1301674969-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-610861605-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> <20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com>
	<4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org>
	<BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<902604979-1301674969-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-610861605-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiktUwZ_EgwSqK-BJcundsLQGc1QaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:23 AM, <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> The script is called by camera motion, via zoneminder, not cron. Actually I
> tested it in cron and it worked fine.
>

That makes a bit more sense.  Can you configure zoneminder to invoke the
script via sudo?  Just tossing out ideas.

-Rob
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From admin at lctn.org  Fri Apr  1 12:41:15 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 12:41:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiktUwZ_EgwSqK-BJcundsLQGc1QaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org>	<20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com>	<4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org>	<BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>	<902604979-1301674969-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-610861605-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<BANLkTiktUwZ_EgwSqK-BJcundsLQGc1QaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D960E3B.1090608@lctn.org>

  I have it narrowed down to pulseaudio. If I edit the .conf file and 
set  autospawn = no, the script launches without error, but I get no 
sound. If I set  autospawn = yes, I get the error about /var/www from 
pulseaudio, and still no sound.


The script launches fine from cron or terminal window.









From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 14:23:37 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:23:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line
In-Reply-To: <4D960E3B.1090608@lctn.org>
References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> <20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com>
	<4D95D3EF.4000000@lctn.org>
	<BANLkTi=c5Gt-HSyAnii6apap19=K_63tAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<902604979-1301674969-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-610861605-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<BANLkTiktUwZ_EgwSqK-BJcundsLQGc1QaQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D960E3B.1090608@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=_oDWcyV+bcfWbih93wXVMKE=M-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

>  I have it narrowed down to pulseaudio. If I edit the .conf file and set
>  autospawn = no, the script launches without error, but I get no sound. If I
> set  autospawn = yes, I get the error about /var/www from pulseaudio, and
> still no sound.
>
>
> The script launches fine from cron or terminal window.
>

What kind of script is it?

-Rob
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 18:02:38 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:02:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Google Motion
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104011802230.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Awesome!!...

http://mail.google.com/mail/help/motion.html

Mike

From admin at lctn.org  Sat Apr  2 11:05:18 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:05:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: Dell 2650 Poweredge Server
Message-ID: <4D97493E.2090404@lctn.org>

Dell Poweredge 2650 2U Server 2x3.06GHz Xeon/8GB/2x146GB

$175.00

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 13:59:18 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:59:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] laser printer and monitor -- both free
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

HP Laserjet 1200 series -- It is pretty nice, it definitely works well, 
and it's free, but it has one defect.  It is not huge or heavy like the 
last one we heard about.  It has a working cartridge but I don't know how 
much is left in it.  The defect is that every time I start printing, the 
first three pages or so have a bunch of extra dry ink spewed onto them. 
I assume this has something to do with warming up.  I tried printing extra 
pages with very little content to get warmed up, and that seems to help. 
I don't use it much and I just got a new wireless printer, so I'm giving 
this one away.  It should be good for someone who prints infrequently and 
doesn't mind connecting it to the parallel port (I think that's the 
parallel port).  After the first good page comes out, the rest are 
perfect.  Also, it's free.  Cable and power cord included.

Sony Trinitron Multiscan 400PS -- this is a big old CRT.  If you can use 
it, great.  It's free.  If no one can use this, does anyone know where I 
can get rid of it?  In its day it was a great monitor.  I retired it a few 
years ago and it has just been sitting around waiting to go somewhere 
else.

Mike

From josh at tcbug.org  Sun Apr  3 20:33:36 2011
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:33:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: Dell 2650 Poweredge Server
In-Reply-To: <4D97493E.2090404@lctn.org>
References: <4D97493E.2090404@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <201104032033.42642.josh@tcbug.org>

On Saturday, April 02, 2011 11:05:18 am Raymond Norton wrote:
> Dell Poweredge 2650 2U Server 2x3.06GHz Xeon/8GB/2x146GB
> 
> $175.00
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

There's a special circle of hell for Netburst processors, the flames stoked  
by the CPU's own inefficiencies.

We have an entire room full of this stuff in the bay area, free to a good home 
if anyone is willing to haul away a few tons of really slow power hungry 
servers.
 
-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 20:37:30 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:37:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I don't think people want these two items, so I'll want to toss them out. 
What's a good way to do that?  I work at the U, so I could probably just 
dump them off there somewhere -- they have to get rid of tons of old stuff 
all the time.  I remember we had a discussion once about how to get rid of 
monitors, but I just noticed that a neighbor (here in Minneapolis) left a 
TV out on recycling day and they put a note on it saying that they'd be 
back to pick it up.  Doesn't that mean that we can get put our monitors 
out on recycling day and have them picked up?  I would think so.  Laser 
printers, too?

Mike


On Sat, 2 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote:

> HP Laserjet 1200 series -- It is pretty nice, it definitely works well, 
> and it's free, but it has one defect.  It is not huge or heavy like the 
> last one we heard about.  It has a working cartridge but I don't know 
> how much is left in it.  The defect is that every time I start printing, 
> the first three pages or so have a bunch of extra dry ink spewed onto 
> them. I assume this has something to do with warming up.  I tried 
> printing extra pages with very little content to get warmed up, and that 
> seems to help. I don't use it much and I just got a new wireless 
> printer, so I'm giving this one away.  It should be good for someone who 
> prints infrequently and doesn't mind connecting it to the parallel port 
> (I think that's the parallel port).  After the first good page comes 
> out, the rest are perfect.  Also, it's free.  Cable and power cord 
> included.
>
> Sony Trinitron Multiscan 400PS -- this is a big old CRT.  If you can use 
> it, great.  It's free.  If no one can use this, does anyone know where I 
> can get rid of it?  In its day it was a great monitor.  I retired it a 
> few years ago and it has just been sitting around waiting to go 
> somewhere else.
>
> Mike

From admin at lctn.org  Sun Apr  3 20:41:38 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:41:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: Dell 2650 Poweredge Server
In-Reply-To: <201104032033.42642.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <4D97493E.2090404@lctn.org> <201104032033.42642.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <D40985CA-3C4C-4FE4-9EA9-17AF0EB4A593@lctn.org>

Never have seen a classified get flamed before :) 

We use this model server in many applications and love them. Not cutting edge, but have always done a good job. 

That was before I learned they were junk though. 



On Apr 3, 2011, at 8:33 PM, Josh Paetzel <josh at tcbug.org> wrote:

> On Saturday, April 02, 2011 11:05:18 am Raymond Norton wrote:
>> Dell Poweredge 2650 2U Server 2x3.06GHz Xeon/8GB/2x146GB
>> 
>> $175.00
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> There's a special circle of hell for Netburst processors, the flames stoked  
> by the CPU's own inefficiencies.
> 
> We have an entire room full of this stuff in the bay area, free to a good home 
> if anyone is willing to haul away a few tons of really slow power hungry 
> servers.
> 
> -- 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josh Paetzel

From smcgrath23 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 20:48:57 2011
From: smcgrath23 at gmail.com (Steve McGrath)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 20:48:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimcYFfdsXYmK8tsW0hkLRRjwzXnuw@mail.gmail.com>

We're pretty lucky in Minneapolis. You should be able to put out up to
two TVs, monitors, printers, computers, whatever, each garbage day. Or
maybe it's recycling day, I don't remember. It's best to put CRTs out
as close to garbage/recycling pickup as possible, or scrappers will
smash them apart all over your driveway to get the precious metals
from the neck of the CRT.

Check this out: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/solid-waste/what-to-do-A.asp

-Steve

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think people want these two items, so I'll want to toss them out.
> What's a good way to do that? ?I work at the U, so I could probably just
> dump them off there somewhere -- they have to get rid of tons of old stuff
> all the time. ?I remember we had a discussion once about how to get rid of
> monitors, but I just noticed that a neighbor (here in Minneapolis) left a TV
> out on recycling day and they put a note on it saying that they'd be back to
> pick it up. ?Doesn't that mean that we can get put our monitors out on
> recycling day and have them picked up? ?I would think so. ?Laser printers,
> too?
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> HP Laserjet 1200 series -- It is pretty nice, it definitely works well,
>> and it's free, but it has one defect. ?It is not huge or heavy like the last
>> one we heard about. ?It has a working cartridge but I don't know how much is
>> left in it. ?The defect is that every time I start printing, the first three
>> pages or so have a bunch of extra dry ink spewed onto them. I assume this
>> has something to do with warming up. ?I tried printing extra pages with very
>> little content to get warmed up, and that seems to help. I don't use it much
>> and I just got a new wireless printer, so I'm giving this one away. ?It
>> should be good for someone who prints infrequently and doesn't mind
>> connecting it to the parallel port (I think that's the parallel port).
>> ?After the first good page comes out, the rest are perfect. ?Also, it's
>> free. ?Cable and power cord included.
>>
>> Sony Trinitron Multiscan 400PS -- this is a big old CRT. ?If you can use
>> it, great. ?It's free. ?If no one can use this, does anyone know where I can
>> get rid of it? ?In its day it was a great monitor. ?I retired it a few years
>> ago and it has just been sitting around waiting to go somewhere else.
>>
>> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
If it ain't broke, you're not using a new enough version

From ryanjcole at me.com  Sun Apr  3 20:51:17 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 20:51:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: Dell 2650 Poweredge Server
In-Reply-To: <D40985CA-3C4C-4FE4-9EA9-17AF0EB4A593@lctn.org>
References: <4D97493E.2090404@lctn.org> <201104032033.42642.josh@tcbug.org>
	<D40985CA-3C4C-4FE4-9EA9-17AF0EB4A593@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <9CD99351-520B-489F-9CDC-5AF9C6BAF853@me.com>

Sad, I'm getting one of these from my boss soon...

On Apr 3, 2011, at 8:41 PM, Raymond Norton wrote:

> Never have seen a classified get flamed before :) 
> 
> We use this model server in many applications and love them. Not cutting edge, but have always done a good job. 
> 
> That was before I learned they were junk though. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 3, 2011, at 8:33 PM, Josh Paetzel <josh at tcbug.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Saturday, April 02, 2011 11:05:18 am Raymond Norton wrote:
>>> Dell Poweredge 2650 2U Server 2x3.06GHz Xeon/8GB/2x146GB
>>> 
>>> $175.00
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> There's a special circle of hell for Netburst processors, the flames stoked  
>> by the CPU's own inefficiencies.
>> 
>> We have an entire room full of this stuff in the bay area, free to a good home 
>> if anyone is willing to haul away a few tons of really slow power hungry 
>> servers.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Josh Paetzel
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From andyzib at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 21:01:36 2011
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 21:01:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimcYFfdsXYmK8tsW0hkLRRjwzXnuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTimcYFfdsXYmK8tsW0hkLRRjwzXnuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimH=0TcjAYXRWWDZT1RUmx+Poa1Wg@mail.gmail.com>

If you're living in Hennepin, Anoka, Carver, Dakota, Ramsey, or
Washington counties and you don't have curbside pickup you can bring
stuff to the drop off facilities in Brooklyn Park and Bloomington for
no charge.

See http://hennepin.us/dropoffs for full details.

Don't know the full details since I'm in Scott county myself.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com

From ryanjcole at me.com  Sun Apr  3 21:02:53 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 21:02:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimH=0TcjAYXRWWDZT1RUmx+Poa1Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTimcYFfdsXYmK8tsW0hkLRRjwzXnuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimH=0TcjAYXRWWDZT1RUmx+Poa1Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F9EAF158-BD3E-49C9-A132-025C812B1759@me.com>

You can actually take it to ANY of the participating county recycling centers, you don't have to stay in the county.


On Apr 3, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote:

> If you're living in Hennepin, Anoka, Carver, Dakota, Ramsey, or
> Washington counties and you don't have curbside pickup you can bring
> stuff to the drop off facilities in Brooklyn Park and Bloomington for
> no charge.
> 
> See http://hennepin.us/dropoffs for full details.
> 
> Don't know the full details since I'm in Scott county myself.
> 
> -- 
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 22:14:15 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 22:14:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>

Is the crt on vga connections? If so, I'd like it. I have no idea about the printer
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think people want these two items, so I'll want to toss them out. What's a good way to do that? I work at the U, so I could probably just dump them off there somewhere -- they have to get rid of tons of old stuff all the time. I remember we had a discussion once about how to get rid of monitors, but I just noticed that a neighbor (here in Minneapolis) left a TV out on recycling day and they put a note on it saying that they'd be back to pick it up. Doesn't that mean that we can get put our monitors out on recycling day and have them picked up? I would think so. Laser printers, too? Mike On Sat, 2 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > HP Laserjet 1200 series -- It is pretty nice, it definitely works well, > and it's free, but it has one defect. It is not huge or heavy like the > last one we heard about. It has a working cartridge but I don't know > how much is left in it. The defect is that every time I start printing, > the first three pages or so have a bunch of extra dry i
 nk
spewed onto > them. I assume this has something to do with warming up. I tried > printing extra pages with very little content to get warmed up, and that > seems to help. I don't use it much and I just got a new wireless > printer, so I'm giving this one away. It should be good for someone who > prints infrequently and doesn't mind connecting it to the parallel port > (I think that's the parallel port). After the first good page comes > out, the rest are perfect. Also, it's free. Cable and power cord > included. > > Sony Trinitron Multiscan 400PS -- this is a big old CRT. If you can use > it, great. It's free. If no one can use this, does anyone know where I > can get rid of it? In its day it was a great monitor. I retired it a > few years ago and it has just been sitting around waiting to go > somewhere else. > > Mike_____________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

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From nesius at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 22:35:27 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 22:35:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: Dell 2650 Poweredge Server
In-Reply-To: <201104032033.42642.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <4D97493E.2090404@lctn.org>
	<201104032033.42642.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinh0XOYKCjzfy10z9Fyk7otRRHYzg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Josh Paetzel <josh at tcbug.org> wrote:

> On Saturday, April 02, 2011 11:05:18 am Raymond Norton wrote:
> > Dell Poweredge 2650 2U Server 2x3.06GHz Xeon/8GB/2x146GB
> >
> > $175.00
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> There's a special circle of hell for Netburst processors, the flames stoked
> by the CPU's own inefficiencies.
>
> We have an entire room full of this stuff in the bay area, free to a good
> home
> if anyone is willing to haul away a few tons of really slow power hungry
> servers.
>
>
Good ol' Netburst.  Does that PowerEdge 2650 have Rambus memory too?   I'm
so glad I skipped that generation of hardware.

-Rob
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From nesius at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 22:38:46 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 22:38:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTincMJf5_WKAtRSZh0S8Lwd3HReDOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think people want these two items, so I'll want to toss them out.
> What's a good way to do that?
>

Don't forget about freegeek, which does focus on reuse of old hardware.

http://freegeektwincities.org/

-Rob
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 00:17:05 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 00:17:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTincMJf5_WKAtRSZh0S8Lwd3HReDOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTincMJf5_WKAtRSZh0S8Lwd3HReDOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040012160.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, Robert Nesius wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think people want these two items, so I'll want to toss them 
>> out. What's a good way to do that?
>>
>
> Don't forget about freegeek, which does focus on reuse of old hardware.
>
> http://freegeektwincities.org/


Thanks, Robert.  I was trying to remember what they call themselves.  I 
did give them some good stuff once.  Back then they didn't take monitors, 
but now I see that they take them, but only if they are also given $20 
along wth the monitor:

http://freegeektwincities.org/donate-equipment

It looks like I can get a better deal than that, but I do want to support 
their efforts.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 00:21:33 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 00:21:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, mark.katerberg at gmail.com wrote:

> Is the crt on vga connections? If so, I'd like it. I have no idea about 
> the printer

Yes, it's VGA.  I will send you a message off-list with contact info.

If you want to see the printer, I can hold onto it until you come for the 
monitor.

Mike

From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Mon Apr  4 12:46:55 2011
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn at charter.net)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:46:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] LD_LIBRARY_PATH question
Message-ID: <523b9753.7ea2c.12f219fde43.Webtop.44@charter.net>


Hello all:

A coworker asked me a question and I could not give a definitive answer. 
For a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry, does Linux search sub-directories 
recursively?  He is installing a database driver (Progress) on a CentOS 
5.3 and needs to point to some compat libraries.  However, they are not 
in a single directory but in both a top-level directory such as 
/usr/lib/progress but also in /usr/lib/progress/dirA and 
/usr/lib/progress/dirB.  Would you have to point at all three 
directories?

Thank you,

Perry Hoekstra
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From florin at iucha.net  Mon Apr  4 13:03:33 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:03:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] LD_LIBRARY_PATH question
In-Reply-To: <523b9753.7ea2c.12f219fde43.Webtop.44@charter.net>
References: <523b9753.7ea2c.12f219fde43.Webtop.44@charter.net>
Message-ID: <20110404180332.GV3082@styx.iucha.org>

On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 01:46:55PM -0400, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> A coworker asked me a question and I could not give a definitive answer.  
> For a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry, does Linux search sub-directories  
> recursively?  He is installing a database driver (Progress) on a CentOS  
> 5.3 and needs to point to some compat libraries.  However, they are not  
> in a single directory but in both a top-level directory such as  
> /usr/lib/progress but also in /usr/lib/progress/dirA and  
> /usr/lib/progress/dirB.  Would you have to point at all three  
> directories?

Yes, you have to list all directories.  Just like with $PATH.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 16:00:40 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 16:00:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>

the printer ink cartridges are worth 3 bucks a piece at officemax.  office
depot and some others offer this too just not sure of pricing.  it's a free
ream of paper or better so it is worth the few seconds to take it out and
put it in a ziplock.

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Apr 2011, mark.katerberg at gmail.com wrote:
>
>  Is the crt on vga connections? If so, I'd like it. I have no idea about
>> the printer
>>
>
> Yes, it's VGA.  I will send you a message off-list with contact info.
>
> If you want to see the printer, I can hold onto it until you come for the
> monitor.
>
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 16:51:09 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 16:51:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Samael wrote:

> the printer ink cartridges are worth 3 bucks a piece at officemax. 
> office depot and some others offer this too just not sure of pricing. 
> it's a free ream of paper or better so it is worth the few seconds to 
> take it out and put it in a ziplock.


Thanks.  If I end up throwing it out, I'll pull the cartridge first.

I'm pretty surprised that there was no interest whatsoever in the free 
laser printer, but someone wanted the CRT monitor.  I really thought it 
would go the other way.

Mike

From ryanjcole at me.com  Mon Apr  4 16:58:47 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 16:58:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <61032063-EC7D-4131-9B08-25B3957840E4@me.com>


On Apr 4, 2011, at 4:51 PM, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Samael wrote:
> 
>> the printer ink cartridges are worth 3 bucks a piece at officemax. office depot and some others offer this too just not sure of pricing. it's a free ream of paper or better so it is worth the few seconds to take it out and put it in a ziplock.
> 
> 
> Thanks.  If I end up throwing it out, I'll pull the cartridge first.
> 
> I'm pretty surprised that there was no interest whatsoever in the free laser printer, but someone wanted the CRT monitor.  I really thought it would go the other way.

I'd have probably jumped on it if it was USB - only one of my legacy machines has parallel on it still.

--
Ryan

From nesius at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 17:13:49 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 17:13:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] LD_LIBRARY_PATH question
In-Reply-To: <20110404180332.GV3082@styx.iucha.org>
References: <523b9753.7ea2c.12f219fde43.Webtop.44@charter.net>
	<20110404180332.GV3082@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimdo7Kd+jLwwJd+1hb2_FvP6+vnqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 01:46:55PM -0400, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> > A coworker asked me a question and I could not give a definitive answer.
> > For a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry, does Linux search sub-directories
> > recursively?  He is installing a database driver (Progress) on a CentOS
> > 5.3 and needs to point to some compat libraries.  However, they are not
> > in a single directory but in both a top-level directory such as
> > /usr/lib/progress but also in /usr/lib/progress/dirA and
> > /usr/lib/progress/dirB.  Would you have to point at all three
> > directories?
>
> Yes, you have to list all directories.  Just like with $PATH.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>

You can also use symlink trees to create one location that has references to
all of your shared libraries, but I'd just set up LD_LIBRARY_PATH
correctly.  Don't mess with rpaths unless you don't want flexibility or you
need things to work irregardless of the user environment. (rpaths only apply
if you are building from source...).

-Rob
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 17:48:52 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 17:48:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] LD_LIBRARY_PATH question
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimdo7Kd+jLwwJd+1hb2_FvP6+vnqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <523b9753.7ea2c.12f219fde43.Webtop.44@charter.net>
	<20110404180332.GV3082@styx.iucha.org>
	<BANLkTimdo7Kd+jLwwJd+1hb2_FvP6+vnqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041736130.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Robert Nesius wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 01:46:55PM -0400, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
>>
>>> A coworker asked me a question and I could not give a definitive 
>>> answer. For a LD_LIBRARY_PATH entry, does Linux search sub-directories 
>>> recursively?  He is installing a database driver (Progress) on a 
>>> CentOS 5.3 and needs to point to some compat libraries.  However, they 
>>> are not in a single directory but in both a top-level directory such 
>>> as /usr/lib/progress but also in /usr/lib/progress/dirA and 
>>> /usr/lib/progress/dirB.  Would you have to point at all three 
>>> directories?
>>
>> Yes, you have to list all directories.  Just like with $PATH.
>
> You can also use symlink trees to create one location that has 
> references to all of your shared libraries, but I'd just set up 
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH correctly.  Don't mess with rpaths unless you don't want 
> flexibility or you need things to work irregardless of the user 
> environment. (rpaths only apply if you are building from source...).


I remember reading a few times that it was a bad idea to set 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH in the environment and that it was best to write a script 
to call the program and set LD_LIBRARY_PATH within the script.  This was 
probably where I read it:

http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/ldpath.html

Here's the key excerpt with the part (#3) I seem to be remembering:


Canonical rules for handling LD_LIBRARY_PATH

1. Never ever set LD_LIBRARY_PATH globally.
2. If you must ship binaries that use shared libraries and want to allow
    your clients to install the program outside a 'standard' location, do
    one of the following:
      ? Ship your binaries as .o files, and as part of the install process
        relink them with the correct installation library path.
      ? Ship executables with a very long ?dummy? run-time library path,
        and as part of the install process use a binary editor to
        substitute the correct install library path in the executable.
3. If you are forced to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH, do so only as part of a
    wrapper.


While looking for that, I also found this:

http://prefetch.net/articles/linkers.badldlibrary.html

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 17:56:20 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 17:56:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Cable and WiFi connection issues.. not OS specific
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEPLDEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLKEPLDEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041751350.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Chuck Cole wrote:

>> I may have happened to read the question wrong also, so I will answer 
>> the alternate (Can you achieve the same /internet/ speed with WiFi and 
>> wired).
>
> That *IS* the question.
>>
>> If you receive ~15Mbps from Charter but you only see 7.5 via WiFi you 
>> are most likely on a busy WiFi channel. Try different channels, or 
>> perform a site survey and make sure to not choose a neighbors channel.
>
> Data given above stated "clear channel with high S/N"
>
> Are you saying that I should get the same ~15Mbps on WiFi as LAN per 
> Charter's speed test?  I think I should, unless there's some detectable 
> overhead. that I have not been able to identify or detect.


I am curious about this.  I haven't done any careful testing, but I have 
always had the impression that my wifi internet connection was slower than 
my wired connection.  It would be nice to hear that Chuck figured this 
out.  Are we really out of ideas for him?

Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 18:00:22 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:00:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] LD_LIBRARY_PATH question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041736130.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <523b9753.7ea2c.12f219fde43.Webtop.44@charter.net>
	<20110404180332.GV3082@styx.iucha.org>
	<BANLkTimdo7Kd+jLwwJd+1hb2_FvP6+vnqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041736130.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikiRartG4sopLDcG=ZuKMtksevB9A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I remember reading a few times that it was a bad idea to set
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH in the environment and that it was best to write a script to
> call the program and set LD_LIBRARY_PATH within the script.  This was
> probably where I read it:
>

LD_LIBRARY_PATH can have a lot of unintended side effects and security
implications.  I avoid using it if at all possible.

Most binary-installs that are relocatable perform their magic by burning in
max-length paths into the binaries during the initial build and then using a
binary editor to replace the strings with the target paths.  That setrpath
tool that was mentioned was of great interest to me - there have been times
I've really needed a program like that.

-Rob
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 19:27:14 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:27:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37: Linux for the fun of it
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104041924350.26948@conan.grunners.com>


I stumbled upon a nice article for the upcoming Slackware Release 13.37.

Here is a link for anyone that might be interested:

https://lwn.net/Articles/434279/

Enjoy,

Mr. B-o-B



From brockn at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 19:58:47 2011
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:58:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN Questions
Message-ID: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>

I have never used openvpn before and I am a VPN noob in general.

My private network is 192.168.0. I was thinking of using the default
10.0.8 open vpn network.

1. Does that make sense, ie should openvpn be configured as the same
network as my private network?
2. If I go forward with the current configuration,I assume whenever I
am on the road and I happen to be using a network which gives either
ranges, I will be out of luck?
3. I assume I should not use static keys?

Thanks,
Brock

From ryanjcole at me.com  Mon Apr  4 20:15:53 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 20:15:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN Questions
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02AB2578-D433-486A-ABCB-DEF9BE205DDC@me.com>


On Apr 4, 2011, at 7:58 PM, Brock Noland wrote:

> I have never used openvpn before and I am a VPN noob in general.
> 
> My private network is 192.168.0. I was thinking of using the default
> 10.0.8 open vpn network.
> 
> 1. Does that make sense, ie should openvpn be configured as the same
> network as my private network?

No, you'd have to set up routing and a bunch of other stuff. The VPN will only get you to your main server. If you want to do a PPTP setup you'll need to look into routing options.


> 2. If I go forward with the current configuration,I assume whenever I
> am on the road and I happen to be using a network which gives either
> ranges, I will be out of luck?

No, you'll still have a dedicated connection just to your server.


> 3. I assume I should not use static keys?

Static keys means your computer will sign in always. If you don't let your computer out of your sight then do this. If it is stolen, you can just delete the corresponding key.


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Apr  4 22:13:10 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:13:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104042212250.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote:

> I'm pretty surprised that there was no interest whatsoever in the free laser 
> printer, but someone wanted the CRT monitor.  I really thought it would go 
> the other way.

I'm surprised too - a while ago I offered up free LCD monitors and nobody 
wanted them. I still have them. I still have the Mac Mini someone actually 
said they'll come pick up!


-Yaron

--

From kevin.lombardo at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 22:30:08 2011
From: kevin.lombardo at gmail.com (Kevin Lombardo)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 22:30:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104042212250.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104042212250.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <1301974208.29274.366.camel@kll8076.wellsfargo.com>

Hi Yaron-

I must have missed your original post. If you still have the Mac Mini, I
would take it off your hands. Unfortunately I cannot pick it up until
Wednesday evening, if that works for you. Also, what size were the LCD
monitors that you have?

Thanks,
Kevin


On Mon, 2011-04-04 at 22:13 -0500, Yaron wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> > I'm pretty surprised that there was no interest whatsoever in the free laser 
> > printer, but someone wanted the CRT monitor.  I really thought it would go 
> > the other way.
> 
> I'm surprised too - a while ago I offered up free LCD monitors and nobody 
> wanted them. I still have them. I still have the Mac Mini someone actually 
> said they'll come pick up!
> 
> 
> -Yaron
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 00:15:30 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 00:15:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104042212250.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104042212250.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104050011480.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Yaron wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty surprised that there was no interest whatsoever in the free 
>> laser printer, but someone wanted the CRT monitor.  I really thought it 
>> would go the other way.
>
> I'm surprised too - a while ago I offered up free LCD monitors and 
> nobody wanted them.

I definitely missed that.  I'm wondering if you sent it back when the list 
was down for a week.  I see no sign of it in my collection of messages and 
I'm sure I didn't delete any.

For example, in Gmail, if I search for this, I get nothing:

from:yaron lcd

Same for this:

from:yaron free monitors

Mike

From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Apr  5 01:50:08 2011
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 01:50:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cable and WiFi connection issues.. not OS specific
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041751350.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEBBDFAA.cncole@earthlink.net>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 5:56 PM
>
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> >> I may have happened to read the question wrong also, so I will answer
> >> the alternate (Can you achieve the same /internet/ speed with WiFi and
> >> wired).
> >
> > That *IS* the question.
> >>
> >> If you receive ~15Mbps from Charter but you only see 7.5 via WiFi you
> >> are most likely on a busy WiFi channel. Try different channels, or
> >> perform a site survey and make sure to not choose a neighbors channel.
> >
> > Data given above stated "clear channel with high S/N"
> >
> > Are you saying that I should get the same ~15Mbps on WiFi as LAN per
> > Charter's speed test?  I think I should, unless there's some detectable
> > overhead. that I have not been able to identify or detect.
>
>
> I am curious about this.  I haven't done any careful testing, but I have
> always had the impression that my wifi internet connection was
> slower than
> my wired connection.  It would be nice to hear that Chuck figured this
> out.  Are we really out of ideas for him?
>
> Mike

I did further testing and verified that the problem doesn't seem to be a
limit or fixed characteristic of my local hardware.

Found a freeware utility for windows that does bidirectional tests pairwise
between computers on the local network.  This tool generates a large dummy
file, and times 2-way transfers to/from a disk, then cleans up its mess.
This test tool shows nearly 100mbps between wired pairs, and nearly 54mbps
between a wired and a WiFi pair.  Doesn't seem to be much difference between
having only one of my WiFi boxes active and having two active.  These
results seem to show that I should get about the same download speed on my
WiFi as on my LAN connections, since the WiFi links have more than about
twice the internet download speed.

Wild guess: some protocols have short and long transfer modes that differ by
block lengths and thus the packetizing overheads.  MAYBE the internet test
from Charter I was using makes the WiFi link use a short transfer mode and
not a more suited long transfer mode.

Quite a puzzle..


Chuck



From tclug at beitsahour.net  Tue Apr  5 09:08:54 2011
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:08:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN Questions
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinuEt2Yj7PW2OwYZuYfSv4kU_CATw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 19:58, Brock Noland <brockn at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have never used openvpn before and I am a VPN noob in general.
>
> My private network is 192.168.0. I was thinking of using the default
> 10.0.8 open vpn network.
>
> 1. Does that make sense, ie should openvpn be configured as the same
> network as my private network?

You can bridge your current network (ok if both ends have decent
bandwidth) or you can route (preferred) but you need to enable ipv4
forwarding and iptables, not particularly hard though.

> 2. If I go forward with the current configuration,I assume whenever I
> am on the road and I happen to be using a network which gives either
> ranges, I will be out of luck?

sort of, there are ways in openvpn around it by dynamically
translating the network. however generally speaking you want to use a
network that is not generally used. (instead of 10.0.8/24, try
10.242.165/24 for example, people tend to forget that 10 is a /8)

> 3. I assume I should not use static keys?

you should use both, a static shared key(ta.key in openvpn) and then
openssl PKI for session authentication. you can even add a third layer
of authenticating against pam if you are so inclined. For a more
secure setup you can use a CA for the clients that is completely
different from the CA that signs the server so that you have cross
authentication going on.

openvpn comes with easyrsa, a good openssl CA management suite.

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Tue Apr  5 09:34:03 2011
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 09:34:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN Questions
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinuEt2Yj7PW2OwYZuYfSv4kU_CATw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinuEt2Yj7PW2OwYZuYfSv4kU_CATw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D9B285B.5040008@beer.tclug.org>

On 04/05/2011 09:08 AM, Munir Nassar wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 19:58, Brock Noland<brockn at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> 2. If I go forward with the current configuration,I assume whenever I
>> am on the road and I happen to be using a network which gives either
>> ranges, I will be out of luck?
>
> sort of, there are ways in openvpn around it by dynamically
> translating the network. however generally speaking you want to use a
> network that is not generally used. (instead of 10.0.8/24, try
> 10.242.165/24 for example, people tend to forget that 10 is a /8)

  Another option if you only want to access a few hosts in your private 
network: assign them IPs that would be constrained within a smaller 
address block -- I'd suggest a /26 or smaller that isn't at the "top" or 
"bottom" of the /24, thus avoiding including .1 and .254 (generally the 
most common gateway addresses) -- and have your OpenVPN push the route 
for that block to the client.  Linux should give the more-specific route 
(the ~/26 over the VPN) priority over the less-specific one (the local 
/24) in the event of a /24 overlap.  (Excluding .1/.254 is probably 
necessary to avoid breaking your default route out of the network, FWIW.)

  I dunno.  Just a thought.

      Jima

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Tue Apr  5 09:39:15 2011
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 09:39:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN Questions
In-Reply-To: <4D9B285B.5040008@beer.tclug.org>
References: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinuEt2Yj7PW2OwYZuYfSv4kU_CATw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D9B285B.5040008@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <4D9B2993.1010404@beer.tclug.org>

On 04/05/2011 09:34 AM, Jima wrote:
> Another option if you only want to access a few hosts in your private
> network: assign them IPs that would be constrained within a smaller
> address block -- I'd suggest a /26 or smaller that isn't at the "top" or
> "bottom" of the /24, thus avoiding including .1 and .254 (generally the
> most common gateway addresses) -- and have your OpenVPN push the route
> for that block to the client. Linux should give the more-specific route
> (the ~/26 over the VPN) priority over the less-specific one (the local
> /24) in the event of a /24 overlap. (Excluding .1/.254 is probably
> necessary to avoid breaking your default route out of the network, FWIW.)

  ...or use the IPv6 payload patch for OpenVPN and IPv6 ULA address 
space, and push that route over the VPN.  While ULA isn't guaranteed to 
be unique (despite the name, Unique Local Address), it's far less 
statistically probable to run into a similar address space overlap, 
especially with the minimal amount of IPv6 deployment out there.

      Jima

From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Tue Apr  5 10:38:24 2011
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric Crist)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:38:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenVPN Questions
In-Reply-To: <4D9B2993.1010404@beer.tclug.org>
References: <BANLkTim9winTV1rMBakWe5vAf0_hkrmHAw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinuEt2Yj7PW2OwYZuYfSv4kU_CATw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D9B285B.5040008@beer.tclug.org> <4D9B2993.1010404@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <158DCF71-9825-4AC0-B690-D92785CEE20D@secure-computing.net>

Stay away from the 192.168/23 as they're WAY to common.  If you connect from a friend's house using that subnet, you run the high risk of losing your VPN connection.  My recommendation is to renumber your home network to something uncommon (as suggest earlier).  If you plan on doing LAN gaming and such, setup a bridged VPN.  If you aren't doing anything that needs layer 2, specifically, go with a routed setup.

For what it's worth, the IPv6 payload patch is 2.2-RC now, if I remember correctly, and has been in the development snapshots for quite some time.  If you want real-time assistance, there is an IRC channel, #openvpn on Freenode.

Eric

On Apr 5, 2011, at 09:39:15, Jima wrote:

> On 04/05/2011 09:34 AM, Jima wrote:
>> Another option if you only want to access a few hosts in your private
>> network: assign them IPs that would be constrained within a smaller
>> address block -- I'd suggest a /26 or smaller that isn't at the "top" or
>> "bottom" of the /24, thus avoiding including .1 and .254 (generally the
>> most common gateway addresses) -- and have your OpenVPN push the route
>> for that block to the client. Linux should give the more-specific route
>> (the ~/26 over the VPN) priority over the less-specific one (the local
>> /24) in the event of a /24 overlap. (Excluding .1/.254 is probably
>> necessary to avoid breaking your default route out of the network, FWIW.)
> 
> ...or use the IPv6 payload patch for OpenVPN and IPv6 ULA address space, and push that route over the VPN.  While ULA isn't guaranteed to be unique (despite the name, Unique Local Address), it's far less statistically probable to run into a similar address space overlap, especially with the minimal amount of IPv6 deployment out there.
> 
>     Jima
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


From john.meier at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 13:40:09 2011
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 13:40:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how to dispose of laser printers and monitors?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104050011480.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104021340140.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104032031270.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1eccc68b-c00c-4e34-89fa-39542105e829@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104040017120.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTi=cxLEJSj5zT9KgDMTFNdk7TwS6Kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104041649300.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104042212250.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104050011480.6714@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimXKK_MQxL2n0jC7OPfV5qhhAD4dQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Yaron wrote:
>
>  On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Mike Miller wrote:
>>
>>  I'm pretty surprised that there was no interest whatsoever in the free
>>> laser printer, but someone wanted the CRT monitor.  I really thought it
>>> would go the other way.
>>>
>>
>> I'm surprised too - a while ago I offered up free LCD monitors and nobody
>> wanted them.
>>
>
> I definitely missed that.  I'm wondering if you sent it back when the list
> was down for a week.  I see no sign of it in my collection of messages and
> I'm sure I didn't delete any.
>
>

I missed it too - would take that mini off your hands today! and a monitor
too!
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From j at packetgod.com  Wed Apr  6 13:00:35 2011
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 13:00:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone know of a local place to buy an Analog
	Telephone Adapter?
Message-ID: <BANLkTimTjZB77pqzD1H=eiT6F3gjiriP4A@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to find a cheap ATA like a Grandstream or an unlocked Linksys
locally but not having any luck.  Anyone know where I can get one?

Someone off topic but related to Asterisk :)

--j
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From cschumann at twp-llc.com  Thu Apr  7 10:32:04 2011
From: cschumann at twp-llc.com (Chris Schumann)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 10:32:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux File Transfer Bottleneck Gig
Message-ID: <4D9DD8F4.4010208@twp-llc.com>

 From another list:

To start: we use lftp for lots of large file transfer at XYZCorp -
pulling 1mb-10GB files via ftp, http, sftp, scp, etc. It generally works
well, but it consumes a lot of CPU. Should HTTP download really peg a
cpu core to 100%? That seems excessive to me. Happy to pay market rate
plus a few beers to anyone who can help us figure out if this can be
improved. We can provide a reusable sample and an environment that
demonstrates this behavior.

== End of message
This is on a Linux server. If you're interested, I'll introduce you to the author.

Chris



From admin at lctn.org  Thu Apr  7 12:03:31 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 12:03:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mysql import help
Message-ID: <4D9DEE63.5000208@lctn.org>

  I am dinging around with a new mail scanner solution. The 
blacklist/whitelist tables are structured differently, so I need to 
manipulate the dump/import file, so it imports correctly. Anyone have 
advice on how to import the old data?

My old blacklist table looks like this:
CREATE TABLE `blacklist` (
   `id` int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
   `to_address` text,
   `to_domain` text,
   `from_address` text,
   PRIMARY KEY  (`id`),
   UNIQUE KEY `blacklist_uniq` (`to_address`(100),`from_address`(100))
) ENGINE=MyISAM AUTO_INCREMENT=22 DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;

Values example: 
(21,'leeleecon at domain.com','domain.com','mccutepsy at iwashinbun.co.jp'),


The new list combines the black and whitelist:
CREATE TABLE `lists` (
   `id` int(11) NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT,
   `list_type` int(11) NOT NULL,
   `from_address` varchar(255) NOT NULL,
   `to_address` varchar(255) NOT NULL,
   `user_id` int(11) NOT NULL,
   PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
   KEY `lists_403f60f` (`user_id`)
) ENGINE=MyISAM AUTO_INCREMENT=7 DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;
/*!40101 SET character_set_client = @saved_cs_client */;

Values example: (4,2,'emailcampaigns.net','lctn.org',2)

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 12:26:22 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:26:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FTP chris
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=SUrQF7ZfN1Xf_xzAF9RvsR1d9Tw@mail.gmail.com>

 Chris:
I would suggest a buffer size to control the rate of transfer for larger files.
I would also running the ftp program with the nice option.
,Ron

$ *nice -n 5 ~/bin/longtask*

FTP [-*options*] [-s:*filename*] [-w:*buffer*] [*host*]


-w:*buffer*     Set buffer size to *buffer*
                 (default=4096)
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From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr  7 13:14:58 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 13:14:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mysql import help
In-Reply-To: <4D9DEE63.5000208@lctn.org>
References: <4D9DEE63.5000208@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20110407181457.GY3082@styx.iucha.org>

On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 12:03:31PM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
>  I am dinging around with a new mail scanner solution. The  
> blacklist/whitelist tables are structured differently, so I need to  
> manipulate the dump/import file, so it imports correctly. Anyone have  
> advice on how to import the old data?
>
> My old blacklist table looks like this:
> CREATE TABLE `blacklist` (
>   `id` int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
>   `to_address` text,
>   `to_domain` text,
>   `from_address` text,
>   PRIMARY KEY  (`id`),
>   UNIQUE KEY `blacklist_uniq` (`to_address`(100),`from_address`(100))
> ) ENGINE=MyISAM AUTO_INCREMENT=22 DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;
>
> Values example:  
> (21,'leeleecon at domain.com','domain.com','mccutepsy at iwashinbun.co.jp'),
>
>
> The new list combines the black and whitelist:
> CREATE TABLE `lists` (
>   `id` int(11) NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT,
>   `list_type` int(11) NOT NULL,
>   `from_address` varchar(255) NOT NULL,
>   `to_address` varchar(255) NOT NULL,
>   `user_id` int(11) NOT NULL,
>   PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
>   KEY `lists_403f60f` (`user_id`)
> ) ENGINE=MyISAM AUTO_INCREMENT=7 DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;
> /*!40101 SET character_set_client = @saved_cs_client */;
>
> Values example: (4,2,'emailcampaigns.net','lctn.org',2)

Use sed.  Or Excel/Calc.

The question is: where do you get the user_id from?

florin

-- 
Don't question authority!  They don't know either.
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From kcbnac at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 18:42:29 2011
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:42:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 2-way file syncronization & fun
Message-ID: <BANLkTimGrCtiy5VASiFoyTMTxQNtrdP3sA@mail.gmail.com>

Trying to get two file servers set up between two locations - both on
residential connections, so no static IPs.  Want to have them
synchronize back and forth.

Had actually (gasp!) Considered Windows Server - as their DFS
(Distributed File System) does exactly what I want.  But, at
$800/server, puts it out of the budget for this project.  (Looked at
new hardware costs and I'd spend 3/4 of that on each machine for a
loaded little box!)  Currently using spare hardware, with plans to
upgrade when funds/needs allow/require.

Thinking DynamicDNS (of some sort) for identifying the other machine,
then poke a (single) hole for an SSH'd connection.  (Alternative:
upload a simple text file to a web-server with IP in it.  Wouldn't be
dependent upon DNS updates, but shot this idea down as one of them I'd
like to have a functional DNS entry for)

Considering rsync (over ssh) for the actual transfer, unless there's
some other (easier/more capable) solution.  (Concern: multi-user
changes at both locations)

Running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS currently on both machines.

Looked at Unison, but it isn't being developed anymore, and don't want
to start on a tool that is in discontinued status.

Thoughts, improvements?

Thanks!

-Keith Bachman

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 19:43:02 2011
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 19:43:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 2-way file syncronization & fun
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimGrCtiy5VASiFoyTMTxQNtrdP3sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimGrCtiy5VASiFoyTMTxQNtrdP3sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikypS9fB-T9K24rEWhtCAZAe0w_-Q@mail.gmail.com>

As far as tracking the changing IP addresses, I use DynDNS
(http://www.dyndns.com/) for my home connection, along with an
intermediary service (from the OpenDNS people) to handle the update so
I can change both the dyndns record and my OpenDNS account's network
definition with one call.  I'm running DD-WRT on a router at home that
speaks to DNS-O-Matic (http://www.dnsomatic.com/) to perform the
updates.  I've found this setup to be acceptably reliable for how
often my IP changes - worst case scenario is a 30 minute wait, due to
how often DynDNS allows updates with a free account.  I believe you
can update more often for a small monthly fee.

I have also used your other option when I needed to avoid that
30-minute possibility at all costs (school or work presentations).
For that, my command looks like this:

wget -q -O - checkip.dyndns.org | sed -e 's/.*Current IP Address: //'
-e 's/<.*$//' | ssh <remote_server> 'cat > ~/homeip'

I just throw that in my crontab and have an account set up to use
key-based SSH auth for it.  If you were running BIND on a server it
would be trivial to adapt that to do a real DNS record update.

Regarding the actual sync mechanism, I think rsync over ssh is actual
the way to go - it may not be the prettiest utility, but it will do
the job well.  You'll probably want to enable compression on the
transfer.  Depending on exactly what you're doing with these servers
you could also look at some of the wrappers around rsync like
rdiff-backup.

If you wanted to stick with something more like Microsoft's DFS, you
could look at the Andrew File System
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_File_System) and Lustre
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lustre_%28file_system%29).

Depending on your use case, you might also be interested in a tool
called incron, which lets you kick off tasks when files under a
particular path change.

Mostly which option you go with depends on how big of an operation
you're running off these two locations.  Odds are rsync will be
sufficient, but if you have thousands of client nodes at each end
making multiple updates per second, obviously that's a bit different.

 - Tony Yarusso

From jolexa at jolexa.net  Thu Apr  7 20:11:42 2011
From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:11:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 2-way file syncronization & fun
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikypS9fB-T9K24rEWhtCAZAe0w_-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimGrCtiy5VASiFoyTMTxQNtrdP3sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikypS9fB-T9K24rEWhtCAZAe0w_-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D9E60CE.9070303@jolexa.net>

On 04/07/2011 07:43 PM, Tony Yarusso wrote:

> Depending on your use case, you might also be interested in a tool
> called incron, which lets you kick off tasks when files under a
> particular path change.

incron is viable, but even better would be lsyncd[1] that kicks off a 
rsync command when new files are added to the watched directory. I'm 
building a simple dropbox clone this way for fun. I only have one way 
syncing (and a public directory that a vhost points to) at the moment as 
I devise the best way to get two way without a loop[2]. My plan to get 
out of the loop is, on the client side, hardlink the directory to a new 
directory (hardlinks are to avoid the extra download cost), rsync from 
server to client's new directory, rsync from new directory to the 
dropbox folder - assuming small files, this will be within the 20second 
watch window. Additional resource[3].

Cheers,
Jeremy

[1]: http://code.google.com/p/lsyncd/
[2]: http://code.google.com/p/lsyncd/issues/detail?id=48&can=1
[3]: http://fak3r.com/geek/howto-build-your-own-open-source-dropbox-clone/

From elhaddi at enduradata.com  Fri Apr  8 06:10:52 2011
From: elhaddi at enduradata.com (A. A. El Haddi)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 06:10:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 2-way file syncronization & fun
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimGrCtiy5VASiFoyTMTxQNtrdP3sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimGrCtiy5VASiFoyTMTxQNtrdP3sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA9FB289-5C58-43CC-8000-296CEC08A1EC@enduradata.com>


> Trying to get two file servers set up between two locations - both on
> residential connections, so no static IPs.  Want to have them
> synchronize back and forth.
>


One way to do that is to use an RVP (Rendez vous point; think skype,  
etc) between the two hosts with dynamic IPs. We implemented such a  
scheme
with our peer to peer file sharing scheme a few years ago (combined  
with NAT whole punching). What you are trying to do is
bidirectional file replication with dynamic IPs. I am assuming that  
you don't care about concurrent writes to the files (because unless you
have a distributed lock manager in addition to the RVP, the content of  
the files will not be deterministic).

A. A. El Haddi,
EnduraData

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Apr  8 07:29:59 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 07:29:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mysql import help
In-Reply-To: <20110407181457.GY3082@styx.iucha.org>
References: <4D9DEE63.5000208@lctn.org> <20110407181457.GY3082@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4D9EFFC7.5030700@lctn.org>


> Use sed.  Or Excel/Calc.
>
> The question is: where do you get the user_id from?
>
> florin
>


Figured it out:

LOAD DATA *LOCAL* INFILE '//importfile.csv/'
INTO TABLE /test_table/
FIELDS TERMINATED BY ','
LINES TERMINATED BY '\n'
(field1, filed2, field3);


I added a field for the user id, and things imported properly.


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 10:06:45 2011
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 10:06:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Anyone know of a local place to buy an Analog
 Telephone Adapter?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimTjZB77pqzD1H=eiT6F3gjiriP4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimTjZB77pqzD1H=eiT6F3gjiriP4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiko4TEzeOC+3DSgY6hxD2r836xHtQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 1:00 PM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to find a cheap ATA like a Grandstream or an unlocked Linksys
> locally but not having any luck. ?Anyone know where I can get one?
> Someone off topic but related to Asterisk :)

It's on topic.  I'm also looking for a similar device, and not having
much luck.  Unfortunately patching TDM into the Asterisk box carries a
healthy price tag these days.  Let us know if you find something.

Brian

From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 12:40:27 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 12:40:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Quick LAN print server config for windows clients.
Message-ID: <BANLkTiknTrEKu6fWxTU-r8wc_RM0RZ6OfA@mail.gmail.com>

Just thought I would share.

Set up a working Linux print server for a LAN. Working with Wes Smith at the
shop setting up a print server for windows clients. One thing to consider is
the post script drivers for the windows clients.
Configure CUPS for the LAN. Here is a guide for CUPS config.d (
http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/ref-cupsd-conf.html)Make sure users
have read write access to the printer. In this case it was easy, anyone on
192.168 has access. Check the cups Linux printer compatibility list. Install
the driver if your system does not currently have one(it should be supported
out of the box). Then get a generic postscript driver from either windows or
adobe(
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=1500&fileID=1438).
Next go to the windows add printer "wizard" and select the third option to
add a network printer. Put in the path for the printer "
http://your.server.i.p:631/printers/yourPrinterHere" then select your post
script printer. Next make it the default printer, and finish the wizard.
Print a test page. In this case "The lumberjack song."
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From eric.schultz at mchsi.com  Sat Apr  9 12:57:20 2011
From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 12:57:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Program for Reading micro sd sim cards - pulling data,
 texts, deleted info
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiknTrEKu6fWxTU-r8wc_RM0RZ6OfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1020615097.7249471302371840528.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>



Hey all, 



I am looking for a program in Linux that can pull off the data from a Mirco SD sim card, used in a cell phone to retrieve deleted texts and phone logs.? 



thanks 




_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 13:33:45 2011
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 13:33:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Program for Reading micro sd sim cards - pulling
 data, texts, deleted info
In-Reply-To: <1020615097.7249471302371840528.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>
References: <BANLkTiknTrEKu6fWxTU-r8wc_RM0RZ6OfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1020615097.7249471302371840528.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin6U7H=Hn+zu91Pt0HJwdVAfNX-Tw@mail.gmail.com>

Most phones don't store that kind of information on a microSD card,
what kind of phone is this? If it is in fact on a card, see if it is
readable with a hexeditor (wxHexEditor is my favourite Linux gui
version)- would be your best bet for deleted messages assuming they
aren't compressed or encrypted. Most smart phones use sqlite or
similar flat file db's but require jail breaking (not stored on memory
cards). Linux tools like wammu and bitpim (also for Windows) are
falling behind in development vs. new technology but still work for
older phones.

Otherwise if you're wealthy, buy a Cellebrite Pro device for physical
phone dumping, but even then deleted text messages are near impossible
to pull back. Sorry for the dire news, but it is what it is, and I say
this from a lot of experience.

Good luck,

Jeremy MountainJohnson
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Eric Schultz <eric.schultz at mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
>
>
> I am looking for a program in Linux that can pull off the data from a Mirco SD sim card, used in a cell phone to retrieve deleted texts and phone logs.
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From eric.schultz at mchsi.com  Sat Apr  9 14:18:24 2011
From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:18:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Program for Reading micro sd sim cards - pulling
 data, texts, deleted info
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin6U7H=Hn+zu91Pt0HJwdVAfNX-Tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <210873695.7255901302376704282.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>

I have two different phones I am trying to extract text messages off of.  an LG touch, and a samsung seek.  I dont know if they store the deleted texts or info to the micro card or not, I figured it might be worth a try.

Has anyone ever used cell phone spy?  It is supposed to be able to recover deleted text messages.  I did look at bitpim, however it didn't have the phones I was looking for listed. 

I will install wxHexEditor tonight and see if I can recover anything. 

I can assure you I am not wealthy...

Eric 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy MountainJohnson" <jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com>
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 1:33:45 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Program for Reading micro sd sim cards - pulling data, texts, deleted info

Most phones don't store that kind of information on a microSD card,
what kind of phone is this? If it is in fact on a card, see if it is
readable with a hexeditor (wxHexEditor is my favourite Linux gui
version)- would be your best bet for deleted messages assuming they
aren't compressed or encrypted. Most smart phones use sqlite or
similar flat file db's but require jail breaking (not stored on memory
cards). Linux tools like wammu and bitpim (also for Windows) are
falling behind in development vs. new technology but still work for
older phones.

Otherwise if you're wealthy, buy a Cellebrite Pro device for physical
phone dumping, but even then deleted text messages are near impossible
to pull back. Sorry for the dire news, but it is what it is, and I say
this from a lot of experience.

Good luck,

Jeremy MountainJohnson
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Eric Schultz <eric.schultz at mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
>
>
> I am looking for a program in Linux that can pull off the data from a Mirco SD sim card, used in a cell phone to retrieve deleted texts and phone logs.
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Apr 11 01:51:16 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 01:51:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Program for Reading micro sd sim cards - pulling
 data, texts, deleted info
In-Reply-To: <1020615097.7249471302371840528.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>
References: <1020615097.7249471302371840528.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104110149410.32281@localhost6.localdomain6>

> I am looking for a program in Linux that can pull off the data from a Mirco
> SD sim card, used in a cell phone to retrieve deleted texts and phone logs.?

One of the problems you may be having with this is the fact that a SIM 
card is in no shape or form an SD card, micro or not.


-Yaron

--

From eric.schultz at mchsi.com  Mon Apr 11 07:31:39 2011
From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 07:31:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Program for Reading micro sd sim cards - pulling
 data, texts, deleted info
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104110149410.32281@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <1088075617.7436101302525099688.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>

You are right, sorry I used the wrong descripter.  I am trying to recover deleted texts from two phones, which as I understand is saved to flash memory of the cell phone.  I had read online that depending on the phone, text data can also we saved to the SD card as files, but that is not the case for either phone.  

for what it is worth, bitmip was decent, wamma froze. 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com>
To: "TCLUG" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 1:51:16 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Program for Reading micro sd sim cards - pulling data, texts, deleted info

> I am looking for a program in Linux that can pull off the data from a Mirco
> SD sim card, used in a cell phone to retrieve deleted texts and phone logs.?

One of the problems you may be having with this is the fact that a SIM 
card is in no shape or form an SD card, micro or not.


-Yaron

--
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From admin at lctn.org  Wed Apr 13 11:32:22 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:32:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Web Ical calendar
Message-ID: <4DA5D016.8050400@lctn.org>

I am trying to help our city find an open source web calendar (ical) 
solution that anyone can subscribe to, regardless of the calendar 
solution they personally use. Anyone using something they love?



From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu  Wed Apr 13 12:48:36 2011
From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:48:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail processing suggestion
In-Reply-To: <20110329225109.GB23464@fireopal.org>
References: <20110329225109.GB23464@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <57856.152.65.129.201.1302716916.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu>

On Tue, March 29, 2011 5:51 pm, Scott Raun wrote:
> I'm currently using procmail for splitting my mail up before reading
> it in mutt.  I don't want to killfile some senders, but I would like
> to mark their e-mails as read before I start reading the relevant list
> mail.  Any suggestions for search terms or methods to accomplish this?

I know that this is a late response, but I am just catching up on my list
mail.

The procmail recipe that you need depends on your mailbox type, but
assuming you use mbox you would want something like:

:0Wf
* ^From: .*(user at example\.org|user2 at dog\.com|userfour at pig\.com)
|formail -I"Status: RO"


-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List
(TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/
Never laugh at live dragons  |



From sraun at fireopal.org  Wed Apr 13 20:34:48 2011
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:34:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Mail processing suggestion
In-Reply-To: <57856.152.65.129.201.1302716916.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu>
References: <20110329225109.GB23464@fireopal.org>
	<57856.152.65.129.201.1302716916.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20110414013448.GA24142@fireopal.org>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:48:36PM -0500, Jim Crumley wrote:
> On Tue, March 29, 2011 5:51 pm, Scott Raun wrote:
> > I'm currently using procmail for splitting my mail up before reading
> > it in mutt.  I don't want to killfile some senders, but I would like
> > to mark their e-mails as read before I start reading the relevant list
> > mail.  Any suggestions for search terms or methods to accomplish this?
> 
> I know that this is a late response, but I am just catching up on my list
> mail.
> 
> The procmail recipe that you need depends on your mailbox type, but
> assuming you use mbox you would want something like:
> 
> :0Wf
> * ^From: .*(user at example\.org|user2 at dog\.com|userfour at pig\.com)
> |formail -I"Status: RO"

I'm using mbox, so that's good - thanks!

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Apr 14 09:12:01 2011
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (tclug1 at whitleymott.net)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:12:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] free 19" crt displays
Message-ID: <201104141412.p3EEC1Gm032340@okra.fo4.net>

i'm moving, it's time to let go of those extra 19" CRTs, i've been using a 2 them until yesterday, 3 more have just sat around for a couple years.  you could also walk off with some other very random parts if you want..

From galanolwe at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 15 09:59:33 2011
From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 07:59:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Home network?
In-Reply-To: <201104141412.p3EEC1Gm032340@okra.fo4.net>
Message-ID: <998510.83597.qm@web161607.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I've got two laptops, one running Win7, one with Ubu10.10. I've got Internet through Qwest and currently have both laptops getting Internet through the Qwest WiFi modem. Q: Is there a way to have these two laptops "see" each other, talk to each other?
OlweGrand Marais,MN
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 10:09:46 2011
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:09:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Home network?
In-Reply-To: <998510.83597.qm@web161607.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <201104141412.p3EEC1Gm032340@okra.fo4.net>
	<998510.83597.qm@web161607.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=-mQJM3pr4W2oTu1=LD+v+R-vgWw@mail.gmail.com>

The laptops should see eachother right now.

On Winodws, open a command prompt, type ipconfig. This will display your IP
address.

On the Linux one, open a terminal and type ifconfig.

You should be able to do a ping from one to the other.

For example, if the Win7 is 192.168.1.50 and the Ubuntu laptop is
192.168.1.51, you should be able to do this from the command prompt on Win7:

ping 192.168.1.51

You may not get a response if you do this from Ubuntu to Windows due to
default settings on the windows firewall.

If you get an IP address that isn't in the private IP ranges
(10.0.0.0-10.255.255.255,172.60.0.0-172.31.255.255, or 192.168.0.0 -
192.168.255.255) then you've Qwest router is giving you multiple public IPs,
and all bets are off... :)



So assuming the ping works, your laptops can see eachother on the network.
>From there what do you want to do?

You can share files by transferring them back and forth using SSH. Install
OpenSSH on the Ubuntu laptop and a client that supports SFTP such as
FileZilla on the Windows computer. Or you can setup SAMBA on the Ubuntu
laptop and share some files on the Windows laptop to share files. Setup VNC
on both and remote control the other end. The list goes on and on...you'll
have to be a bit more specific about what you want to do.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From florin at iucha.net  Fri Apr 15 10:09:54 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:09:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Home network?
In-Reply-To: <998510.83597.qm@web161607.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <201104141412.p3EEC1Gm032340@okra.fo4.net>
	<998510.83597.qm@web161607.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20110415150953.GB2413@styx.iucha.org>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 07:59:33AM -0700, Olwe Bottorff wrote:
> I've got two laptops, one running Win7, one with Ubu10.10. I've got
> Internet through Qwest and currently have both laptops getting Internet
> through the Qwest WiFi modem. Q: Is there a way to have these two laptops
> "see" each other, talk to each other?

They should.  Have you tried pinging one from the other?

florin

-- 
Don't question authority!  They don't know either.
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From galanolwe at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 15 10:40:44 2011
From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Home network?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=-mQJM3pr4W2oTu1=LD+v+R-vgWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <134124.94606.qm@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Thanks, that worked AZ, and now I can ping from the Win to the Ubu machine. I also can put in the address (http://192.168.0.5) in a browser on the Win laptop and get my Apache on Ubu. Unfortunately, it only seems to know about Apache's standard directory: /var/www/ ?that is, my test index.html comes up, but I can't seem to access any other pages/directories that I've got set up in my /etc/apache2/sites-available. Is this some sort of Apache tweek I need to do, or am I just not putting in the address correctly?
OGM,MN

--- On Fri, 4/15/11, Andrew S. Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Andrew S. Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Home network?
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Date: Friday, April 15, 2011, 10:09 AM

The laptops should see eachother right now. 

On Winodws, open a command prompt, type ipconfig. This will display your IP address. 

On the Linux one, open a terminal and type ifconfig. 

You should be able to do a ping from one to the other. 


For example, if the Win7 is 192.168.1.50 and the Ubuntu laptop is 192.168.1.51, you should be able to do this from the command prompt on Win7:

ping 192.168.1.51

You may not get a response if you do this from Ubuntu to Windows due to default settings on the windows firewall. 


If you get an IP address that isn't in the private IP ranges (10.0.0.0-10.255.255.255,172.60.0.0-172.31.255.255, or 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255) then you've Qwest router is giving you multiple public IPs, and all bets are off... :) 






So assuming the ping works, your laptops can see eachother on the network. >From there what do you want to do? 

You can share files by transferring them back and forth using SSH. Install OpenSSH on the Ubuntu laptop and a client that supports SFTP such as FileZilla on the Windows computer. Or you can setup SAMBA on the Ubuntu laptop and share some files on the Windows laptop to share files. Setup VNC on both and remote control the other end. The list goes on and on...you'll have to be a bit more specific about what you want to do. 


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com


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_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Fri Apr 15 10:56:56 2011
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:56:56 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Home network?
In-Reply-To: <134124.94606.qm@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <BANLkTi=-mQJM3pr4W2oTu1=LD+v+R-vgWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<134124.94606.qm@web161604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E6082CA350@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>

Olwe Bottorff wrote:
 
*  Unfortunately, it only seems to know about Apache's standard
directory: /var/www/  that is, my test index.html comes up, but I can't
seem to access any other pages/directories that
I've got set up in my /etc/apache2/sites-available. Is this some sort of
Apache tweek I need to do, or am I just not putting in the address
correctly?
 
Sounds like you're using <NamedVirtualHosts>?
 
If >1 site share an ip address, requests must include web-site name so
Apache knows which site to serve.  Otherwise, you'll get the default
site.
 
Try updating  etc/hosts on your Win laptop, , eg
 
192.168.0.5 siteA
192.168.0.5 siteB
 
and then connect by name rather than ip address, eg.
http://siteA 
http://siteB
 
 
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From galanolwe at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 15 11:17:43 2011
From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Home network?
In-Reply-To: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E6082CA350@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
Message-ID: <586699.1064.qm@web161611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Excellent. That's got it. I'm only using the Win7 machine for checking my Web work anyway. Thanks!

--- On Fri, 4/15/11, Smith, Craig A <Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com> wrote:

From: Smith, Craig A <Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Home network?
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Date: Friday, April 15, 2011, 10:56 AM

Olwe Bottorff wrote: ??? Unfortunately, it only seems to know about Apache's standard directory: /var/www/ ?that is, my test index.html comes up, but I can't seem to access any other pages/directories thatI've got set up in my /etc/apache2/sites-available. Is this some sort of Apache tweek I need to do, or am I just not putting in the address correctly? ?Sounds like you?re using <NamedVirtualHosts>? ?If >1 site share an ip address, requests must include web-site name so Apache knows which site to serve.? Otherwise, you?ll get the default site. ?Try updating ?etc/hosts on your Win laptop, , eg ?192.168.0.5 siteA192.168.0.5 siteB ?and then connect by name rather than ip address, eg.http://siteA http://siteB ? ?
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 12:39:56 2011
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 12:39:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Home network?
In-Reply-To: <586699.1064.qm@web161611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E6082CA350@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>
	<586699.1064.qm@web161611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinyfpuGT1fOP9-i7868jDFXjQT78g@mail.gmail.com>

Also make sure you enable the sites in Apache. Apache doesn't parse the
sites-available directory by default.

Running a2ensite conf-file-name will automatically create a symlink for
/etc/apache2/sites-available to /etc/apache2/sites-enabled and prompt you to
reload Apache.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
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From admin at lctn.org  Fri Apr 15 13:48:48 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:48:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] usb sound blaster
Message-ID: <4DA89310.50101@lctn.org>

Had to pick up a usb sound blaster card for a box (*Creative-Sound 
Blaster X-Fi Go! Pro External USB Sound Card-70SB129000001*)

Anyone know if/how I can install this on Ubuntu 10.10, 32 bit? Package 
says its made for Windows 64 bit.



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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 14:35:06 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 14:35:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Beta 2
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151430410.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Just trying to get caught up on what's going on with Ubuntu when I read 
these:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/14/ubuntu_second_beta/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/01/ubuntu1004_beta_review/

I guess "Unity" is the name of the thing they put on my netbook with my 
upgrade to 10.10.  I haven't been liking it much because I've found it 
hard to find some things.  Maybe they'll be fixing that.  I don't like 
things to change a lot because it means having to learn a bunch of stuff 
that will go away later.  For the future I have to hope for either 
something more consistent across releases or something that is so easy to 
use that there's nothing to learn.

Mike

From john.meier at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 15:43:51 2011
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:43:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Beta 2
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151430410.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151430410.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinUYYtmGoyQjO0PZSch2_ccL3s4VA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

>   Maybe they'll be fixing that.  I don't like things to change a lot
> because it means having to learn a bunch of stuff that will go away later.
>  For the future I have to hope for either something more consistent across
> releases or something that is so easy to use that there's nothing to learn.
>
>
>
Have you ever tried OS X?  :P
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 16:33:51 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 16:33:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Beta 2
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinUYYtmGoyQjO0PZSch2_ccL3s4VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151430410.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTinUYYtmGoyQjO0PZSch2_ccL3s4VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151631010.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, John Meier wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe they'll be fixing that.  I don't like things to change a lot 
>> because it means having to learn a bunch of stuff that will go away 
>> later. For the future I have to hope for either something more 
>> consistent across releases or something that is so easy to use that 
>> there's nothing to learn.
>
>
> Have you ever tried OS X?  :P


I have a lot of GNU/Linux/etc software that I want to use and it would be 
hard to find everything for OS X and install it.  It's a breeze with 
Ubuntu.  It sounds like Ubuntu is trying to mimic more of the OS X 
interface features, so maybe I'll end up with the OS X experience whether 
I like it or not.  It does look nice.

I also want to support free software -- so if it works, and it's free as 
in freedom, I'm not going to switch to a nonfree solution even if it has a 
lot of nice bells and whistles.

Mike

From tlunde at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 17:27:34 2011
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 17:27:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Beta 2
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151631010.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151430410.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTinUYYtmGoyQjO0PZSch2_ccL3s4VA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151631010.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <0E9FE810-CDD6-4D01-A021-EF6D7FE02F9D@gmail.com>



On Apr 15, 2011, at 4:33 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, John Meier wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Maybe they'll be fixing that.  I don't like things to change a lot because it means having to learn a bunch of stuff that will go away later. For the future I have to hope for either something more consistent across releases or something that is so easy to use that there's nothing to learn.
>> 
>> 
>> Have you ever tried OS X?  :P
> 
> 
> I have a lot of GNU/Linux/etc software that I want to use and it would be hard to find everything for OS X and install it.  It's a breeze with Ubuntu.  It sounds like Ubuntu is trying to mimic more of the OS X interface features, so maybe I'll end up with the OS X experience whether I like it or not.  It does look nice.
> 
> I also want to support free software -- so if it works, and it's free as in freedom, I'm not going to switch to a nonfree solution even if it has a lot of nice bells and whistles.
> 
> Mike

Perhaps his point is that Unity and Mac OS X's Finder have a fair amount in common. 

I'm pretty happy about that. When I want a GUI, it's a nice default. That said, most of my boxes are headless or virtual. 

Thomas

From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Sat Apr 16 11:09:48 2011
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:09:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu Beta 2
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151631010.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151430410.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTinUYYtmGoyQjO0PZSch2_ccL3s4VA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104151631010.24284@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=_yuixo13J=xGhm+8Y8wNXYoGzyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 16:33, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?It sounds like Ubuntu is trying to mimic more of the OS X interface
> features, so maybe I'll end up with the OS X experience whether I like it or
> not. ?It does look nice.

Mike, there's always Macbuntu:

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Macbuntu?content=129021

which I've installed and toyed with at home, just for fun.

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman
612.234.7778 (m)

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 21:47:30 2011
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:47:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
Message-ID: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've been using Firefox 3.6.13 and have recently started using Chrome
after using Chrome once previously.  One frequently encountered
scrolling-related bug I was having with Firefox went away with Chrome.
One reason I decided to take another look at Chrome was my browsing
tends to use a lot of my resources.  Firefox seems to be multi-threaded
as the top program gives a one liner for Firefox that makes it easy to
tell how much resource it is using.  Chrome though seems to use a
separate process for each tab and that makes it a pain to compare how
much resource it is using to do the same thing I was doing with Firefox.
There's another aspect to Chrome I like so don't really think I'll go back
to Firefox soon, but I'm not really sure if Chrome is using less resources
than Firefox.  I also recall hearing about an upcoming Firefox release
that will be more efficient than previous Firefox releases.  Thanks in
advance.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384
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From blawrence at qwest.net  Mon Apr 18 22:03:07 2011
From: blawrence at qwest.net (Brian Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:03:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <542F52FE3B27428AB164E51B379873D1@dcm.int>

I continue to use Firefox 3.6.16 strictly because I keep 50-100 tabs open at
a time and I use the BarTab add-on. The BarTab add-on unloads tabs after a
configurable amount of time and reloads them only when needed. This reduces
my CPU and RAM consumption by 90% in most cases and stops the drive from
thrashing. I tried Chrome and Firefox 4 but nothing is as efficient for me
as Firefox 3.6.16 with BarTab.
 
Brian Lawrence

  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Brian Wood
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:48 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?


I've been using Firefox 3.6.13 and have recently started using Chrome 
after using Chrome once previously.  One frequently encountered 
scrolling-related bug I was having with Firefox went away with Chrome.  
One reason I decided to take another look at Chrome was my browsing 
tends to use a lot of my resources.  Firefox seems to be multi-threaded 
as the top program gives a one liner for Firefox that makes it easy to 
tell how much resource it is using.  Chrome though seems to use a 
separate process for each tab and that makes it a pain to compare how 
much resource it is using to do the same thing I was doing with Firefox.  
There's another aspect to Chrome I like so don't really think I'll go back 
to Firefox soon, but I'm not really sure if Chrome is using less resources 
than Firefox.  I also recall hearing about an upcoming Firefox release 
that will be more efficient than previous Firefox releases.  Thanks in 
advance.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384





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From djsteinhafel at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 22:06:18 2011
From: djsteinhafel at gmail.com (djs)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:06:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DACFC2A.70907@gmail.com>

  I usually use Chromium, the unbranded Chrome.  Firefox with NoScript 
and optionally an Adblocker add-on is a great browser, but the 
add-on/extension update check that occurs when Firefox loads results in 
a three to four times longer load time for me than when I launch 
Chromium. Most surfing I do is performed through Chromium, unless I'm 
explicitly trying to avoid running certain Flash/Java(script), in which 
case I'll load Firefox with NoScript enabled. I'm pretty sure Firefox 
will render RSS feeds legible for humans, whereas Chromium will output 
the XML of the RSS without formatting it for easy reading. I seem to 
think Firefox is more bloated, although it's add-on/extensions can be a 
very valuable feature, especially for web developers (Firebug add-on, 
etc). I believe Firefox 4.0 was or is recently going to be released, 
about which I cannot comment.

-- 
-djs<djsteinhafel at gmail.com>


On 4/18/2011 9:47 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> I've been using Firefox 3.6.13 and have recently started using Chrome
> after using Chrome once previously.  One frequently encountered
> scrolling-related bug I was having with Firefox went away with Chrome.
> One reason I decided to take another look at Chrome was my browsing
> tends to use a lot of my resources.  Firefox seems to be multi-threaded
> as the top program gives a one liner for Firefox that makes it easy to
> tell how much resource it is using.  Chrome though seems to use a
> separate process for each tab and that makes it a pain to compare how
> much resource it is using to do the same thing I was doing with Firefox.
> There's another aspect to Chrome I like so don't really think I'll 
> go back
> to Firefox soon, but I'm not really sure if Chrome is using 
> less resources
> than Firefox.  I also recall hearing about an upcoming Firefox release
> that will be more efficient than previous Firefox releases.  Thanks in
> advance.
>
> -- 
> Brian Wood
> Ebenezer Enterprises
> http://webEbenezer.net
> (651) 251-9384
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Apr 18 22:19:12 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:19:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>

I wanted to switch to Chrome. Oh how I wanted to switch to Chrome. It was 
a HELL of a lot faster, especially on javascript-heavy sites, it doesn't 
need to restart to install add-ons, and they actually have new releases 
more often than once a decade (slight exageration).

However, Firefox has the following:

1. Firefox 4 is actually faster.
2. Noscript is a HECK of a lot better on Firefox.
3. Firebug is a HECK of a lot better on Firefox.

The two MAIN reasons, though:

4. Cookies/Privacy: In Firefox when a site asks to set a cookie, I can say 
Yes, No or ALLOW FOR SESSION. Chrome does not have the Allow for session 
option.

5. Firefox Sync. Yeah Chrome has it's own Google-based sync. I like 
Firefox Sync better. First of all, it sync not just bookmarks and 
passwords (which I disable anyway) and form information, but your entire 
browsing history. More importantly to me, I can set it up to sync to my 
own private server rather than The Cloud. I don't care how encrypted it 
is, I want this info on my own servers.


With FF3.* I was occasionally running Chrome for heavy sites, especially 
on my junky old laptop. But FF4 came out almost exactly when I got a new 
laptop, and I've not used Chrome at all since.




-Yaron

--

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 23:35:02 2011
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 23:35:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinixWCPG0EskTia5stpO7=CpQpFXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> 3. Firebug is a HECK of a lot better on Firefox.

Have you used Chrome's native "Developer Tools"? I may be missing
something, but as far as I've been able to tell, it does 99% of what
firebug does. (and doesn't require constant plugin updates)

-Erik

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 23:38:06 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 23:38:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinixWCPG0EskTia5stpO7=CpQpFXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<BANLkTinixWCPG0EskTia5stpO7=CpQpFXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim+O+EfMmz4eYrn+Jbb9iUY74a0UQ@mail.gmail.com>

It's the standard Webkit developer tools (you'll find the same in
Safari) -- doesn't work as well as Firebug when modifying styles on a
loaded page.

-Erik

(why don't you just leave the web development to me ;) )

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>> 3. Firebug is a HECK of a lot better on Firefox.
>
> Have you used Chrome's native "Developer Tools"? I may be missing
> something, but as far as I've been able to tell, it does 99% of what
> firebug does. (and doesn't require constant plugin updates)
>
> -Erik
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From trieff at greencaremankato.com  Tue Apr 19 05:53:39 2011
From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 05:53:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
Message-ID: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>

TCLUG, 
Excellent thread so far. 
I would like to ask what Firefox addon's are important to you??? 
Tom 

Thomas Rieff 
GreenCare 
1717 3rd Avenue 
Mankato, MN 56001 
(507) 344-8314 Office 
(507) 344-8316 Fax 
(507) 381-0660 Cell 


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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 06:05:55 2011
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 06:05:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinSc=z6PQLaCHLQd_T5TQjdSmPjzw@mail.gmail.com>

Firefox 4 90%, Chrome 10%. I've found Chrome to be more stable on a
couple of sites I rarely use, hence the 10%. For awhile it was flopped
the other way, but I've liked FF 4 more since it was beta. I couldn't
justify using just one, neither would work for me 100% of the time.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com



On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been using Firefox 3.6.13 and have recently started using Chrome
> after using Chrome once previously. ?One frequently encountered
> scrolling-related bug I was having?with Firefox went away with Chrome.
> One?reason I decided?to take another look at Chrome was my browsing
> tends to use a?lot of my resources. ?Firefox seems to be multi-threaded
> as the top?program gives a one liner for Firefox that?makes?it easy to
> tell?how?much resource it is using. ?Chrome though?seems to use a
> separate?process for each tab and that makes it a?pain to compare how
> much?resource it is using to do the same thing?I was doing with?Firefox.
> There's another aspect to Chrome I like so?don't really?think I'll go?back
> to Firefox soon, but I'm not really sure?if Chrome is using less?resources
> than Firefox. ?I also recall hearing?about an upcoming?Firefox release
> that will be more efficient than?previous Firefox releases. ?Thanks in
> advance.
> --
> Brian Wood
> Ebenezer Enterprises
> http://webEbenezer.net
> (651) 251-9384
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 07:30:54 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:30:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
References: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
Message-ID: <d9374d78-e2d0-46a0-8707-ca7401515bc8@email.android.com>

Pentadactyl, noscript, adblock
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Thomas Rieff <trieff at greencaremankato.com> wrote:

TCLUG,
Excellent thread so far.
I would like to ask what Firefox addon's are important to you???
Tom

Thomas Rieff 
GreenCare 
1717 3rd Avenue 
Mankato, MN 56001 
(507) 344-8314 Office 
(507) 344-8316 Fax 
(507) 381-0660 Cell 


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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Apr 19 08:00:44 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:00:44 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
References: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
Message-ID: <1095005715-1303218046-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1494464717-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Firefox addons-
Invisible hand
Domain details (helps me see ipv6 enabled sites)
QuickProxy
Dnssec validator

I do like that chrome separates each tab to its own process which means crashes are less likely to cause my entire browser to die killing 10-100 tabs.
Opera works really well too and fast

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Rieff <trieff at greencaremankato.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 05:53:39 
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com  Tue Apr 19 08:36:50 2011
From: Craig.A.Smith at honeywell.com (Smith, Craig A)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 09:36:50 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <1095005715-1303218046-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1494464717-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
	<1095005715-1303218046-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1494464717-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <352399F8DB39E14FBB4B648897CA32E60835ACA9@DE08EV802.global.ds.honeywell.com>

SeaMonkey (FireFox + Thunderbird as a single application)
includes a light-weight html editor (like Netscape used to).

The markup it generates isn't especially pretty, but I use it
to deconstruct pages and see how they were put together.

From jolexa at jolexa.net  Tue Apr 19 13:20:06 2011
From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:20:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?What_browser_do_you_use=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <dc09da7e13f63f752505661d24b40526@webmail.jolexa.net>

 On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:19:12 -0500 (CDT), Yaron wrote:

> 5. Firefox Sync. Yeah Chrome has it's own Google-based sync. I like
> Firefox Sync better. First of all, it sync not just bookmarks and
> passwords (which I disable anyway) and form information, but your
> entire browsing history. More importantly to me, I can set it up to
> sync to my own private server rather than The Cloud. I don't care how
> encrypted it is, I want this info on my own servers.

 Yaron, what piece of software are you using host your own sync account? 
 The information available at http://tobyelliott.wordpress.com/ is 
 largely confusing. I gather that there are 3 main options: 1) php 
 minimal server (with deprecation notices), 2) python full server, 3) 
 weave server - not sure which I should try first.

 Thanks,
 Jeremy

From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 15:06:49 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:06:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DADEB59.5000600@gmail.com>

Firefox 3.6.15, mostly because I don't want to go through the process of
figuring out which add-ons are now broken and how to fix or replace them
like I have to do with every major release of Firefox. Chrome never
interested me, and I really don't want to spend a bunch of time looking
for add-ons that may not exist. I'm down to 59 extensions (this will
likely go down again since I'll prune in process of moving to Fx 4), and
replacing them is a daunting task I'd rather not take when there's
really no compelling reason to switch to Chrome (except the tabs as
processes feature, but sessions are saved automatically by Tab Mix
Plus). BTW, if you think 59 is a lot, I was up to around 100 when the
latest Firefox was 3.0.x. Over time, extensions can break (either on
their own or with a major change to Gecko), are unneeded, or are
unnecessary when their functionality is built into Firefox, so that
number will steadily decrease.

From andyzib at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 15:10:00 2011
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:10:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <dc09da7e13f63f752505661d24b40526@webmail.jolexa.net>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<dc09da7e13f63f752505661d24b40526@webmail.jolexa.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiki78R9k4aJreeQTDOJw5R+72RqBg@mail.gmail.com>

For work I use Firefox. I tried our in house, popup window heavy web
app in Chrome and it didn't work out all that well. Works fine with
Firefox after flipping a couple about:config preferences to force
pop-ups into new tabs and everything. For everything else I use Chrome
or Chromium due to the superior syncing that is built in to the
browser. Firefox Sync is OK, but it doesn't bring over extensions, and
FirefoxSync is an add-on itself, so it adds a few more steps to the
process. With Chrome/Chromium all of my settings and extensions/addons
sync, which is great for using four or five different computers. I use
Xmarks for cross browser bookmark syncing and LastPass for password
management, so having extensions just appear when I sign in to the
browser's sync service is a beautiful thing. I also like that Chrome
is updating in the background. Some may not, but it's nice to have one
less piece of software to worry about updating.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com

From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 15:14:15 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:14:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
References: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
Message-ID: <4DADED17.3030900@gmail.com>

On 2011.04.19 05:53 AM, Thomas Rieff wrote:
> I would like to ask what Firefox addon's are important to you???
In alphabetical order:
abcTajpu
AdBlock Plus and the ABP Element Hiding Helper (#1 most important)
DownThemAll!
Menu Editor
MR Tech Toolkit (it's hard to say how important this is since most of
its functionality is passive - UI changes and such)
Organize Status Bar
Re-Pagination
Secure Login (just for the sheer convenience)
Source Viewer Tab
Speed Dial (this is pure awesomeness)
Tab Mix Plus (anyone who likes to have a lot of tabs open will love this)
Versions (f.k.a. wfx_Versions)

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Apr 19 15:50:34 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:50:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <dc09da7e13f63f752505661d24b40526@webmail.jolexa.net>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104182212390.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<dc09da7e13f63f752505661d24b40526@webmail.jolexa.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104191547530.24815@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Jeremy Olexa wrote:

> Yaron, what piece of software are you using host your own sync account?

I set this up a million years ago, back when it was still called Firefox 
Weave. I tried the full server and that just was NOT working, so I 
installed weave-minimal. I haven't upgraded it since I installed it, and 
it still works with the latest sync plugin.


-Yaron

--

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Apr 19 15:56:17 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 15:56:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
References: <9c6dfe6e-8b34-4a2f-8a8d-7ce742ed6637@zimbraoss-02>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104191552560.24815@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Thomas Rieff wrote:

> I would like to ask what Firefox addon's are important to you???

All my firefox installations get Adblock Plus, and Firefox Sync. One of 
the reasons I like Firefox and Sync is I have a LOT of Firefoxes I use on 
a regular basis...

Ones I use very often also get Noscript, Quickproxy Firebug and 
British-English dictionary so it doesn't flip out when I spell "colour" 
correctly.



-Yaron

--

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 22:13:32 2011
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 22:13:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=ifr62Buy9Z+HXk1yTsNifovrG8w@mail.gmail.com>

Justin Krejci:

> Firefox addons-
> Invisible hand
> Domain details (helps me see ipv6 enabled sites)
> QuickProxy
> Dnssec validator
>
> I do like that chrome separates each tab to its own process which means
crashes are less likely
> to cause my entire browser to die killing 10-100 tabs.

I don't remember the last time a browser crashed on me though.

> Opera works really well too and fast

Thanks for the replies.  I've installed Firefox 4 now.  I'll have to
check into some of the add ons mentioned.
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From kcbnac at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 23:26:32 2011
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 23:26:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=ifr62Buy9Z+HXk1yTsNifovrG8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=ifr62Buy9Z+HXk1yTsNifovrG8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinPESziBqZcbBVDZytkTW6u10LtBA@mail.gmail.com>

I was running Firefox 3.6 with the following:

BarTab
Firefox Sync (Now integrated into Firefox 4; no longer needed as a
separate addon)
GreaseMonkey
HTTPS Everywhere (EFF's addon based on NoScript design that forces
HTTPS for listed sites; easy to add your own rules)
NoScript
TabKit (tabs on the left side, grouped based on how they're opened,
indented as well; and color-coded by group)

Did some testing with Firefox 4 (on one machine), discovered a few problems.
BarTab half-works (it will still NOT load un-targeted tabs at launch
time; but you have to manually reload any 'unloaded' page to get it to
work; no other noticable issues - I don't auto-unload stuff after
timer though)
TabKit's Developer has been AWOL since October; so I had to move over
to Tree Style Tabs - which emulates TabKit with the exception of the
colored groups.

I run Chrome for a few things (namely a few Google-centric things) but
avoid running it for two reasons: They DO track the history of
EVERYTHING in there - and their now-non-support for the "Do Not Track"
feature that Google is now (AFAIK) the sole browser maker to say
they're not implementing it.  (Firefox 4 and IE9 have it, Apple's
announced Safari will in the next major release; don't know yet about
Opera though.)
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Do_not_track_header
http://donottrack.us/

That, and I've used Firefox for a long time - it'd be a massive pain to switch.

I'm still using the official Firefox Sync servers for now; I
eventually plan to set my own up at some point.

Another useful thing is the 'Addon Collections' you can create.
(Requires an account on the addons.mozilla.org site)  You can
pre-build a set of addons to install at once as a bundle.  Be it for
your own use, or just a pre-set list for users you support.  I'll be
creating two, one for me and a 'lite' version for family and friends
(They would get frustrated at NoScript, for example)

Keith Bachman

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Wed Apr 20 12:42:02 2011
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:42:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Install Fest! / Release Party @Penguins Unbound
	Meeting April 30th
Message-ID: <4DAF1AEA.4070007@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday April 30th at TIES,
at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 5:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

At months Penguins Unbound Meeting
we will be having an

    INSTALL FEST / RELEASE PARTY!

with the release of Ubuntu 11.04!

Bring your computer, bring a friend and install LINUX!

(We will be happy to help you install _any_ version of Linux you would want)

Thanks.

Hope to see you there.

==>brian.

*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From ubusum at ymail.com  Wed Apr 20 18:53:43 2011
From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 16:53:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
Message-ID: <986858.44738.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I recently tried FF 4, but soon went back to FF 3.6 after finding too many buttons moved around (I'm waiting for version 4 to mature and perhaps to skip to their next major update, expecting more changes that will require adjusting my habits). I feel old and cranky when it comes to where things are and how they work. (I still run classic Yahoo Mail, but they recently threatened to take this away from me.)

Chrome seemed fast when it came out, but I never got used to its alternative method of tab display, and, I am trying to disengage from Google, as they seem all too invasive and all too powerful in their command of the data universe. Though it may be too late to avoid being absorbed by the Borg...

For Add-Ons I use Add Blocker Plus and Readability, both which I recommend highly. I
 do wonder what Readability might be doing with my reading data though, as it has become a much more entrenched add-on from its initial offering, which you simply placed as a link on your toolbar.

I have interest in a web-crawler add-on (there is one called Foxy Spider is now a FF Add-On), but haven't looked into it yet. I wonder if this technology is late in coming due to a concern with increasing web traffic if it became popular.? If anyone has experience mining their comments (e.g., on member discussion sites) for archiving with such a thing, I'd like to hear from them. Another possible use is automating downloads from sites like the Guttenberg Project, which allow web crawl downloads as long as you set time out parameters.
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Apr 20 19:13:34 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 19:13:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <986858.44738.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <986858.44738.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104201912500.886@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Wed, 20 Apr 2011, Ubu Sumner wrote:

> I recently tried FF 4, but soon went back to FF 3.6 after finding too many
> buttons moved around

That was irritating to me too... but you can move them right back to where 
they were. Right-click the button bar and choose "customize".



-Yaron

--

From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 12:28:45 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:28:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
Message-ID: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Another version of Ubuntu rolls out of the gates. And unity will be the
desktop default.
The Linux desktop has been split up into KDE, Gnome, and tilling managers
and etc...
Do you think unity can change this? I have used the Ubuntu Netbook Remix
that had unity and it needed a lot of work.
The 11.04 release may be better.
A look at Android might help here. With a unified desktop and more open
standards than Apple, Android is a huge success.
Is it a massive waste of development time to have so many desktop
environments?
Will unity make any difference to you, or are you just going to install your
choice of interface?
I'm currently installing Gnome3 for a test drive.
I will give unity a chance and use it for 2 weeks and give some feed back on
the lug.
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Apr 21 12:35:06 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:35:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211234030.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>


On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, r j wrote:

> Will unity make any difference to you, or are you just going to install your
> choice of interface?

Still Window Maker for me.

I wanted ot see what Unity is like so I installed 11.04 beta on a VM... 
but it said Unity can't run on that. Classy.


-Yaron

--

From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 13:14:15 2011
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:14:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211234030.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211234030.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <0A2DDD8C-80D9-489D-81AE-C26430EED18B@gmail.com>

Yaron -

Did you have 3D graphics turned on for your VM set-up?  Last time I looked at VirtualBox, for example, this was not on by default. 

One can use 11.04 without it, 'tho you might as well "regress" to the command line. ;-)


Thomas

On Apr 21, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> 
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, r j wrote:
> 
>> Will unity make any difference to you, or are you just going to install your
>> choice of interface?
> 
> Still Window Maker for me.
> 
> I wanted ot see what Unity is like so I installed 11.04 beta on a VM... but it said Unity can't run on that. Classy.
> 
> 
> -Yaron
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Apr 21 13:19:15 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:19:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
In-Reply-To: <0A2DDD8C-80D9-489D-81AE-C26430EED18B@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211234030.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<0A2DDD8C-80D9-489D-81AE-C26430EED18B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211315490.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>


On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> Did you have 3D graphics turned on for your VM set-up?  Last time I looked at VirtualBox, for example, this was not on by default.
>
> One can use 11.04 without it, 'tho you might as well "regress" to the command line. ;-)

Like I said, I'm using Window Maker. One of the reasons I have Ubuntu in a 
VM is that so I can do the upgrade there FIRST and see how much it messes 
things up (; I like to boot into the commandline and then startx into 
Window Maker, and I wanted to make sure I still can. And I can, no prob. 
But then I was curious about Unity.

FYI, if it can't handle Unity it goes into what it calls "Ubuntu Classic", 
aka Gnome.

And you're right, 3D acceleration wasn't on. Lets give it a shot...

Hmm. This still looks like gnome (; I might've broken it a bit or 
something.


-Yaron

--

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 16:20:43 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:20:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104211615380.2014@conan.grunners.com>

r j cried from the depths of the abyss...

> Another version of Ubuntu rolls out of the gates. And unity will be the desktop default.

Yawn...

> The Linux desktop has been split up into KDE, Gnome, and tilling managers and etc...
> Do you think unity can change this?

For the love of god, NO!

> I have used the Ubuntu Netbook Remix that had unity and it needed a lot 
> of work.
> The 11.04 release may be better.
> A look at Android might help here. With a unified desktop and more open standards than Apple, Android is a huge success.
> Is it a massive waste of development time to have so many desktop environments?

No.  Not until everyone can agree on what it should do & be.  For example 
the idea of using unity makes me want to vomit while you are quite excited 
about it.  See what I mean.

> Will unity make any difference to you, or are you just going to install your choice of interface?

Will make no difference at all in my life.

> I'm currently installing Gnome3 for a test drive.

Another one I can't stand.

> I will give unity a chance and use it for 2 weeks and give some feed back on the lug.
>

Awaiting your report.

Mr. B-o-B




From j at packetgod.com  Thu Apr 21 16:43:43 2011
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:43:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104211615380.2014@conan.grunners.com>
References: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104211615380.2014@conan.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimFSsWuF3EFCztOkkZC26uFB=R70g@mail.gmail.com>

I've been working in unity since the beta came out and I can say that so far
I'm still not liking it at all.  I'm trying to give it a fair shake and see
if it grows on me but so far it just annoys me.  It is very much like the
Mac type of UI which I also hate, if you like the Mac UI then you may like
it.

As I sit here and look at it again I think it is time to go back to Window
Maker, it has been some time since I last used it having spent the last few
years in Gnome and/or KDE but I just remember I was much happier with my UI
back then :)

--j

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:

> r j cried from the depths of the abyss...
>
>
>  Another version of Ubuntu rolls out of the gates. And unity will be the
>> desktop default.
>>
>
> Yawn...
>
>
>  The Linux desktop has been split up into KDE, Gnome, and tilling managers
>> and etc...
>> Do you think unity can change this?
>>
>
> For the love of god, NO!
>
>
>  I have used the Ubuntu Netbook Remix that had unity and it needed a lot of
>> work.
>> The 11.04 release may be better.
>> A look at Android might help here. With a unified desktop and more open
>> standards than Apple, Android is a huge success.
>> Is it a massive waste of development time to have so many desktop
>> environments?
>>
>
> No.  Not until everyone can agree on what it should do & be.  For example
> the idea of using unity makes me want to vomit while you are quite excited
> about it.  See what I mean.
>
>
>  Will unity make any difference to you, or are you just going to install
>> your choice of interface?
>>
>
> Will make no difference at all in my life.
>
>
>  I'm currently installing Gnome3 for a test drive.
>>
>
> Another one I can't stand.
>
>
>  I will give unity a chance and use it for 2 weeks and give some feed back
>> on the lug.
>>
>>
> Awaiting your report.
>
> Mr. B-o-B
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Apr 21 16:54:05 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:54:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimFSsWuF3EFCztOkkZC26uFB=R70g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104211615380.2014@conan.grunners.com>
	<BANLkTimFSsWuF3EFCztOkkZC26uFB=R70g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211653040.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, J Cruit wrote:

> if you like the Mac UI then you may like it. As I sit here and look at 
> it again I think it is time to go back to Window Maker,

That's the funny thing, isn't it. I love MacOS and it's UI on my Mac. I 
love Window Maker on my Linux.

There's room for everyone!


-Yaron

--

From sraun at fireopal.org  Thu Apr 21 19:00:21 2011
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:00:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110422000021.GA8326@fireopal.org>

Let's see - IE8, Firefox 4, and Chrome at work. IE8 for all the mrfl,
mfrl HR / Corporate stuff that doesn't like Firefox or Chrome, Chrome
for Salesforce, Firefox for everything else.

At home - mostly Firefox 3.6.16, some SRWare Iron. I may add
Chromium. I've also got IE9 installed, and Chrome - the former I use
for the aforementioned work sites, the latter I experiment with off
and on.

Firefox add-ons: Adblock Plus, Cookie Exporter, DownloadHelper,
Morning Coffee, ReloadEvery.  I would be unhappy trying to live
without Morning Coffee.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 21:37:47 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:37:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] new c64 runs on ubunto
Message-ID: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com>

Has anyone seen one of these?

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx

Not sure the price of these, but I might just have to get one for old 
times sake.

From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 09:43:55 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 09:43:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] new c64 runs on ubunto
In-Reply-To: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com>
References: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/21/2011 09:37 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> Has anyone seen one of these?
> 
> http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx
> 
> Not sure the price of these, but I might just have to get one for old
> times sake.

I wrote my first program on a Commodore 64! The 800 dollar model doesn't
look terrible, so I'd consider it. Anyone know if the dual core Atom
chips are any good? The single Atom in my netbook was pretty unusable.
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From j at packetgod.com  Fri Apr 22 09:58:01 2011
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 09:58:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] new c64 runs on ubunto
In-Reply-To: <4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>
References: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com>
	<4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin2pnuKtg_pWhm_ABqYJ=-BAXTXPw@mail.gmail.com>

I love the atom chips!  And the dual are even better.  I've replaced most of
my servers at home that used to sit in the rack and run all the time sucking
up energy with some little atom systems.  Running everything from my openVPN
portal to my Asterisk system.  Plus I use the openVPN system as my "home
shell" that can start up the big beasts that run my ESXi images through WOL
(which I did finally get working).  In addition I can fire up my rack of
routers with the remote power system and connect to them through conserver
and the USB serial cards.

I dropped my power bill running all of that all the time by over 100$ a
month.  Atom procs are great for very specific purposes, I'm not sure I'd be
super happy living on one all the time but my little Netbook does an OK job
running Ubuntu and playing various media.  It does start to kack on the full
HD movies and stuff though.

--j

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Mark Katerberg <mark.katerberg at gmail.com>wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 04/21/2011 09:37 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> > Has anyone seen one of these?
> >
> > http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx
> >
> > Not sure the price of these, but I might just have to get one for old
> > times sake.
>
> I wrote my first program on a Commodore 64! The 800 dollar model doesn't
> look terrible, so I'd consider it. Anyone know if the dual core Atom
> chips are any good? The single Atom in my netbook was pretty unusable.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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> =KTxz
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 12:20:05 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 12:20:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] new c64 runs on ubunto
In-Reply-To: <4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>
References: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com> <4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104221208430.3679@conan.grunners.com>

Mark Katerberg cried from the depths of the abyss...

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 04/21/2011 09:37 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
>> Has anyone seen one of these?
>>
>> http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx
>>
>> Not sure the price of these, but I might just have to get one for old
>> times sake.
>
> I wrote my first program on a Commodore 64! The 800 dollar model doesn't
> look terrible, so I'd consider it. Anyone know if the dual core Atom
> chips are any good? The single Atom in my netbook was pretty unusable.

I also wrote my first program on a C64.  I'm not sure about the Atom 
performance.  I had one as well in a netbook, and I ended up giving it to 
my sister-in-law.

I have been thinking that buying the cheap model, replacing the mobo with 
a mini-itx intel board, intel I series proc, and an intel SSD.  My wife 
would never approve this, but I'm starting to be concerned about my 
work desktop.  It might be best to replace my work desktop before it 
fails (wink, wink).  My favorite old/new computer, beefed up, and all in 
time for the upcoming release of Slackware 13.37.

Should any of this come to pass in the upcoming weeks, I will give a 
detailed report of the situation.

Mr. B-o-B







From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Fri Apr 22 22:50:24 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 22:50:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] I think the new releaseof Slackware 13.37 is imminent
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104222249200.4531@conan.grunners.com>

Today the changelog has these entries:

Fri Apr 22 21:48:38 UTC 2011
    The sepulchral voice intones, "The cave is now closed."

Fri Apr 22 18:38:01 UTC 2011:
    Cave closing soon. All adventurers exit immediately through Main
    Office.

He's obviously having fun with this release.

Mr. B-o-B



From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 12:15:52 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 12:15:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] install fest and the state of the desktop.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211653040.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <BANLkTin_eX5Bf5nV98cy2zYfoXOUrSMKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104211615380.2014@conan.grunners.com>
	<BANLkTimFSsWuF3EFCztOkkZC26uFB=R70g@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104211653040.2336@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=nCeCK60z=+L5v15WMZ_8iqETb0g@mail.gmail.com>

Ive been using Unity exclusively as natty has progressed, I've found
it to be really helpful managing open windows (multiple terminal
instances for example). It's still got a ways to go though. The
biggest thing was learning the middle mouse button will open another
instance of a program (such as terminal). The extra screen space does
wonders for development :)


On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, J Cruit wrote:
>
>> if you like the Mac UI then you may like it. As I sit here and look at it
>> again I think it is time to go back to Window Maker,
>
> That's the funny thing, isn't it. I love MacOS and it's UI on my Mac. I love
> Window Maker on my Linux.
>
> There's room for everyone!
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 17:35:12 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 17:35:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] I think the new releaseof Slackware 13.37 is
	imminent
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104222249200.4531@conan.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104222249200.4531@conan.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikga2+TF9CJMwwe7uLaRWNY9eXcDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Today the changelog has these entries:
>
> Fri Apr 22 21:48:38 UTC 2011
>   The sepulchral voice intones, "The cave is now closed."
>
> Fri Apr 22 18:38:01 UTC 2011:
>   Cave closing soon. All adventurers exit immediately through Main
>   Office.
>
> He's obviously having fun with this release.
>
>
I'm disappointed he didn't refer to the cave as Vault 13.

-Rob

p.s. Nuke-Cola.  Yummy yum.
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From schmeestone99 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 24 01:07:01 2011
From: schmeestone99 at yahoo.com (John Sublet)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 23:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] (no subject)
Message-ID: <579672.90908.qm@web161907.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

http://pyzivoh.racyspace.com/MarvaWatson4/

From adam.morris at redstargaming.net  Sun Apr 24 22:23:43 2011
From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:23:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] I think the new releaseof Slackware 13.37 is
	imminent
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104222249200.4531@conan.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104222249200.4531@conan.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <82B5C21F-B17A-4A21-B748-2FEA177B5B76@redstargaming.net>

What's the current state of package management in Slackware these days?  The last time I used it Swaret was the package manager of choice but my understanding is that they got rid of that in a release since then.

I used to be a real hardcore Slackware user until I fell in love with Debian's package management system.  I'd love to go back to my roots, so to speak, but I'm afraid of ending up in a high maintenance OS again.

-Adam

On Apr 22, 2011, at 10:50 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:

> Today the changelog has these entries:
> 
> Fri Apr 22 21:48:38 UTC 2011
>   The sepulchral voice intones, "The cave is now closed."
> 
> Fri Apr 22 18:38:01 UTC 2011:
>   Cave closing soon. All adventurers exit immediately through Main
>   Office.
> 
> He's obviously having fun with this release.
> 
> Mr. B-o-B
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From kcbnac at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:59:24 2011
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:59:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <20110422000021.GA8326@fireopal.org>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110422000021.GA8326@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimz=5ABT74Jj8aQ-Cr8byMHTxod=A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:
...?I would be unhappy trying to live without Morning Coffee....

I've found an easier way than an addon for such functionality.

On my browser bookmark toolbar folder, I have a few main folders, the
first of which is 'Daily' - then broken down by type of content.
Comics, blogs, news, sales sites.  Each set in their own folder - I
can pop into a folder and hit the 'Open All In Tabs' option at the
bottom.

Doesn't require an addon, and if I simply have my bookmarks, I can
pull it off.  (At least in Firefox)

From kcbnac at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 21:12:19 2011
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:12:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] new c64 runs on ubunto
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104221208430.3679@conan.grunners.com>
References: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com> <4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104221208430.3679@conan.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=LyUxW2M6XSUs+9Txmw+LpY9s_qw@mail.gmail.com>

The dual-core atoms are reasonably powerful; but AMD's (finally!) come
out with their 'Atom-killer' as I've nicknamed it.

(I'm running an Atom D510 w/NM10 chipset in a MSI Wind barebones box;
it is currently serving as my IRC shell, local ubuntu mirror, and
Minecraft server with 4GB of RAM total; works well in that capacity as
long as I'm fine with 2 HDs as my max unless I hang more off USB2.0
ports)

Here's MSI's examples:
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/#/?sk=BGA%20FT1

The AMD 'Hudson' (Llanos) APU (Accelerated Processing Unit; combined
CPU + GPU on one die) - the E-350 model is a 1.6GHz dual-core part;
with an HD6310.

The CPU itself has been benchmarked at 40% faster single-thread
performance over an identically clocked Atom!  Doesn't have the HT
that some Atoms do - but isn't a crippled part.  VM extensions, 64-bit
capability, support for 8GB of RAM and Gigabit Ethernet all
on-chip...and since it has more performance capability, it runs less
on long-thread stuff than the Atoms - but then goes back to a
crazy-low idle; coming in better in overall powerdraw from a few
reviews I'd read.  (Intel's Atom options generally force you to pick 1
of the following: More than 2 SATA controllers, Gigabit Ethernet, or a
1x PCI-E slot; then also on the CPU itself a choice between VM support
and 64-bit support; either or but not both)

The GPU inside (HD6310) is supposed to be about 50% more powerful than
the IGP that has been built inside the 780G/880G chipset
(HD3200/HD4250) - which I can say myself games reasonably well (runs
all of Valve's Source-engined games just fine on low settings;
Left4Dead 1 & 2 are the only ones that could use some improvement)  If
I had the spare budget for it, I'd be trading up now!

So I'd consider buying the $250 barebone case; then buy one of the AMD
MiniITX boards; and get more power out of the system.  (IF you're
looking for even more power, you can get normal desktop chips that'll
fit in MiniITX boards for normal uses and put them in there; both
Intel and AMD-based)

From sraun at fireopal.org  Tue Apr 26 02:16:27 2011
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 02:16:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What browser do you use?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimz=5ABT74Jj8aQ-Cr8byMHTxod=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTins1g63cdBCpjdJtZ+K+OtManbWmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110422000021.GA8326@fireopal.org>
	<BANLkTimz=5ABT74Jj8aQ-Cr8byMHTxod=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110426071627.GC16300@fireopal.org>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 08:59:24PM -0500, Keith Bachman wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org> wrote:
> ...?I would be unhappy trying to live without Morning Coffee....
> 
> I've found an easier way than an addon for such functionality.
> 
> On my browser bookmark toolbar folder, I have a few main folders, the
> first of which is 'Daily' - then broken down by type of content.
> Comics, blogs, news, sales sites.  Each set in their own folder - I
> can pop into a folder and hit the 'Open All In Tabs' option at the
> bottom.
> 
> Doesn't require an addon, and if I simply have my bookmarks, I can
> pull it off.  (At least in Firefox)

I have a history of bad results with "Open all in Tabs".

One of the really nice things about Morning Coffee is that what it
opens is based on the day of the week, and you can add things for
every day, weekends, weekdays, MWF, TTh, or individually chosen days -
I've got a couple of things that only opens on Sundays, and at least
one Tuesday/Friday.  I'm happy to have something automagically
handling that, rather than me having to keep track of them manually.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

From brian at ropers-huilman.net  Tue Apr 26 09:55:17 2011
From: brian at ropers-huilman.net (Brian D. Ropers-Huilman)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:55:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] new c64 runs on ubunto
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104221208430.3679@conan.grunners.com>
References: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com> <4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104221208430.3679@conan.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik5Q5w-PeUwUWbh-xUE1z4-Zw5dtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:20, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been thinking that buying the cheap model, replacing the mobo with a
> mini-itx intel board, intel I series proc, and an intel SSD.

You can get the "barebones" version for just $250 and put whatever you
want in it:

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Select.aspx

-- 
Brian D. Ropers-Huilman
612.234.7778 (m)

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 07:47:47 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:47:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] I think the new releaseof Slackware 13.37 is
 imminent
In-Reply-To: <82B5C21F-B17A-4A21-B748-2FEA177B5B76@redstargaming.net>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104222249200.4531@conan.grunners.com>
	<82B5C21F-B17A-4A21-B748-2FEA177B5B76@redstargaming.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104260741140.12290@conan.grunners.com>

Adam Morris cried from the depths of the abyss...

> What's the current state of package management in Slackware these days?  The last time I used it Swaret was the package manager of choice but my understanding is that they got rid of that in a release since then.
>

It's still the same really with a few new ones (like swaret).  One you 
might be interested is called Slapt-get.  It is similar to Deb's APT.  I 
still do things the old fashioned way, but I've heard good things about 
it.  There is a large 3rd party site that provides slack build scripts not 
included with the distro @ www.slackbuilds.org.  Someone has create a 
package mgmt program for them too called sbopkg.

It's not that bad really when it comes to maintenance.


> I used to be a real hardcore Slackware user until I fell in love with 
Debian's package management system.  I'd love to go back to my roots, so to speak, but I'm afraid of ending up in a high maintenance OS again.
>
> -Adam





From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 12:41:58 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:41:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mythtv
Message-ID: <BANLkTikL=xGvdd0eg5kQ9J8Mq7OKHfrXCw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to set up mythtv  with a comcast DCH3200 box.
I am looking for a way to scan channels and populate the database with
channels.
I understand the XMLtv database ides and need to populate the DB.
I am connected to the box via firewire and the drivers work fine.
I just do not see any way to scan the stream for channels with out a tuner.
Has anyone successfully used a software scanner for firewire?
There is a MUG locally but its pretty dead, that is why I am posting on the
lug.
,RJ
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From brian.l.johnson at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 13:43:28 2011
From: brian.l.johnson at gmail.com (Brian Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:43:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mythtv
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikL=xGvdd0eg5kQ9J8Mq7OKHfrXCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikL=xGvdd0eg5kQ9J8Mq7OKHfrXCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimWu4A4Q8wNoycRrkLEpqrafeW97A@mail.gmail.com>

I have this setup working, it was a while ago but I think I just
imported the channels from the XMLtv data and didn't scan.

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 12:41 PM, r j <ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to set up mythtv? with a comcast DCH3200 box.
> I am looking for a way to scan channels and populate the database with
> channels.
> I understand the XMLtv database ides and need to populate the DB.
> I am connected to the box via firewire and the drivers work fine.
> I just do not see any way to scan the stream for channels with out a tuner.
> Has anyone successfully used a software scanner for firewire?
> There is a MUG locally but its pretty dead, that is why I am posting on the
> lug.
> ,RJ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

From tompoe at meltel.net  Tue Apr 26 13:42:37 2011
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom Poe)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:42:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] dvd drive issues
Message-ID: <4DB7121D.7060806@meltel.net>

I am running Mepis 8.5 on Dell G260.  I want to play a DVD, but no 
luck.  I need to troubleshoot, starting with command line id of the 
drive, check permissions, change stuff and make it work with VLC, if 
possible.

Right now, I can insert DVD, and notice that the DVD is active and title 
reads correct.  I open VLC and select play disc, the dialog shows 
/dev/hdc, but when I hit play, the title shows briefly, then 
disappears.  Maybe I don't have permissions set correctly?  How do I 
check that?

I can check sound with a command that starts with aplay followed by file 
name.ogg.  Is there a command for playing DVD?
Thanks, Tom
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 18:36:56 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:36:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] new c64 runs on ubunto
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik5Q5w-PeUwUWbh-xUE1z4-Zw5dtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DB0E9FB.6060103@gmail.com> <4DB1942B.6090304@gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104221208430.3679@conan.grunners.com>
	<BANLkTik5Q5w-PeUwUWbh-xUE1z4-Zw5dtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104261834230.13834@conan.grunners.com>

Brian D. Ropers-Huilman cried from the depths of the abyss...

> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:20, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have been thinking that buying the cheap model, replacing the mobo with a
>> mini-itx intel board, intel I series proc, and an intel SSD.
>
> You can get the "barebones" version for just $250 and put whatever you
> want in it:
>
> http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Select.aspx
>

I have been contemplating this.  The only bummer is it will limit you to 
two monitors (one vga /one dvi) with the right mobo.  Have you ever seen a 
mini-itx with more than two video outputs?




From admin at lctn.org  Wed Apr 27 07:53:40 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:53:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mythtv
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikL=xGvdd0eg5kQ9J8Mq7OKHfrXCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikL=xGvdd0eg5kQ9J8Mq7OKHfrXCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DB811D4.1040602@lctn.org>

  Here is one solution:

Subscribe to something like Schedules Direct 
(http://www.schedulesdirect.org/)

Load the channels via Input Connections in mythtv  backend setup.

Setup a transmitter, like comandir II , or USB-UIRT* *(lirc),  with the 
codes for your comcast box remote

Run an external channel changing script in External Channel Change 
Command (mythtv back end setup, Input Connections)

(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_External_Channel_Changer#Setup%20the%20channel%20Change%20Script)

I run the same type of setup on a Motorola box, but use an analog tuner 
set to channel 4. Should work fine with your setup too (without tuner).







On 04/26/2011 12:41 PM, r j wrote:
> comcast DCH3200 box

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 20:06:19 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:06:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>

It's true! Slackware 13.37 has been released. Nearly a year in the making, 
you will appreciate the performance and stability that can only come with 
careful and rigorous testing. Slackware 13.37 uses the 2.6.37.6 Linux 
kernel (hence our new $SLACKWARE_VERSION.$KERNEL_VERSION naming system 
used for this release ;-), and also ships with 2.6.38.4 kernels for those 
who want to run the latest (and also includes configuration files for 
2.6.35.12 and 2.6.39-rc4). The long-awaited Firefox 4.0 web browser is 
included, the X Window System has been upgraded (and includes the open 
source nouveau driver for nVidia cards). The venerable Slackware installer 
has been improved as well, with support for installing to btrfs (for those 
who would like to try a new copy on write filesystem), a 
one-package-per-line display mode option, and alienBOB's big surprise: an 
easy to set up PXE install server that runs right off the DVD!

More details may by found in the official announcement and in the release 
notes. For a complete list of included packages, see the package list.

Please consider supporting the Slackware project by picking up a copy of 
the Slackware 13.37 release from the Slackware Store. The discs are off to 
replication, but we're accepting pre-orders for the official 6 CD set and 
the DVD. The CD set is the 32-bit x86 release, while the DVD is a 
dual-sided disc with the 32-bit x86 release on one side and the 64-bit 
x86_64 release on the other. And, we still have T-shirts (coming soon, a 
limited edition 13.37 release commemorative black T-shirt with the classic 
Slackware logo on the front, and a "leet" LILO bootscreen on the back) and 
other Slackware stuff there, so have a look around. Thanks to our 
subscribers and supporters for keeping Slackware going all these years.

Thanks are again due to the Slackware crew, the developers of 
slackbuilds.org, the community on linuxquestions.org, Slackware IRC 
channels, and everyone else who helped out with this release.

Have fun, and enjoy the new stable release!

Pat and the Slackware crew

Oh, in case our web server that's rather short of RAM goes down, try this 
link: http://connie.slackware.com

+--------------------------+

This space intentionally left blank.



From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 20:08:54 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:08:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>

Yes, it's that time again!  After many months of development and
careful testing, we are proud to announce the release of Slackware
version 13.37!

     We are sure you'll enjoy the many improvements.  We've done our best
to bring the latest technology to Slackware while still maintaining the
stability and security that you have come to expect.  Slackware is well
known for its simplicity and the fact that we try to bring software to
you in the condition that the authors intended.

     Slackware 13.37 brings many updates and enhancements, among which
you'll find two of the most advanced desktop environments available
today: Xfce 4.6.2, a fast and lightweight but visually appealing and
easy to use desktop environment, and KDE 4.5.5, a recent stable release
of the 4.5.x series of the award-winning KDE desktop environment.
We continue to make use of HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) and udev,
which allow the system administrator to grant use of various hardware
devices according to users' group membership so that they will be able
to use items such as USB flash sticks, USB cameras that appear like USB
storage, portable hard drives, CD and DVD media, MP3 players, and more,
all without requiring sudo, the mount or umount command.  Just plug and
play.  Properly set up, Slackware's desktop should be suitable for any
level of Linux experience.  New to the desktop framework are ConsoleKit
and PolicyKit.  ConsoleKit handles "seats", things like dealing with
devices when switching from one user to another.  PolicyKit is a system
for fine-grained access control, allowing a non-root user to run certain
tasks with elevated privilege, but more securely than if the entire task
were simply run as root.

     Slackware uses the 2.6.37.6 kernel bringing you advanced performance
features such as journaling filesystems, SCSI and ATA RAID volume
support, SATA support, Software RAID, LVM (the Logical Volume Manager),
and encrypted filesystems.  Kernel support for X DRI (the Direct
Rendering Interface) brings high-speed hardware accelerated 3D graphics
to Linux.

     There are two kinds of kernels in Slackware.  First there are the
huge kernels, which contain support for just about every driver in the
Linux kernel. These are primarily intended to be used for installation,
but there's no real reason that you couldn't continue to run them after
you have installed.  The other type of kernel is the generic kernel, in
which nearly every driver is built as a module.  To use a generic kernel
you'll need to build an initrd to load your filesystem module and
possibly your drive controller or other drivers needed at boot time,
configure LILO to load the initrd at boot, and reinstall LILO.  See the
docs in /boot after installing for more information.  Slackware's Linux
kernels come in both SMP and non-SMP types now.  The SMP kernel supports
multiple processors, multi-core CPUs, HyperThreading, and about every
other optimization available.  In our own testing this kernel has proven
to be fast, stable, and reliable.  We recommend using the SMP kernel
even on single processor machines if it will run on them.  Note that on
x86_64 (64-bit), all the kernels are SMP capable.


Here are some of the advanced features of Slackware 13.37:

- Runs the 2.6.37.6 version of the Linux kernel from ftp.kernel.org.
   Alternate 2.6.38.4 Linux kernels are also provided, as well as
   suggested configurations for using a 2.6.39-rc4 kernel, or the
   2.6.35.12 kernel which is supposed to be longterm supported.  These
   kernels will provide reliable performance for your desktop or your
   production server.  By the way, the Speakup driver, used to support
   speech synthesizers providing access to Linux for the visually impaired
   community, has now been merged into all of the provided kernels.

- System binaries are linked with the GNU C Library, version 2.13.
   This version of glibc also has excellent compatibility with
   existing binaries.

- X11 based on the X.Org Foundation's modular X Window System.
   There's been much activity in the X development world, and the
   improvements in terms of performance and hardware support are
   too numerous to mention them all here.

- Installs gcc-4.5.2 as the default C, C++, Objective-C,
   Fortran-77/95, and Ada 95 compiler.

- Support for fully encrypted network connections with OpenSSL,
   OpenSSH, OpenVPN, and GnuPG.

- Apache (httpd) 2.2.17 web server with Dynamic Shared Object
   support, SSL, and PHP 5.3.6.

- PCMCIA, CardBus, USB, FireWire and ACPI support.  This
   makes Slackware a great operating system for your laptop.

- The udev dynamic device management system for Linux 2.6.x.
   This locates and configures most hardware automatically as it
   is added (or removed) from the system, and creates the access
   nodes in /dev.  It also loads the kernel modules required by
   sound cards and other hardware at boot time.

- New development tools, including Perl 5.12.3, Python 2.6.6,
   Ruby 1.9.1-p431, Subversion 1.6.16, git-1.7.4.4, mercurial-1.8.2,
   graphical tools like Qt designer and KDevelop, and much more.

- Updated versions of the Slackware package management tools make it
   easy to add, remove, upgrade, and make your own Slackware packages.
   Package tracking makes it easy to upgrade from Slackware 13.1 to
   Slackware 13.37 (see UPGRADE.TXT and CHANGES_AND_HINTS.TXT).
   The slackpkg tool can also help update from an older version of
   Slackware to a newer one, and keep your Slackware system up to date.
   In addition, the slacktrack utility will help you build and maintain
   your own packages.

- Web browsers galore!  Includes KDE's Konqueror 4.5.5, SeaMonkey 2.1b3
   (this is the replacement for the Mozilla Suite), and the eagerly
   anticipated update to Mozilla's immensely popular Firefox browser,
   Firefox 4.0, as well as the Thunderbird 3.1.9 email and news client
   with advanced junk mail filtering.

- The KDE Software Compilation 4.5.5, a complete desktop environment.
   This includes the KOffice productivity suite, networking tools, GUI
   development with KDevelop, multimedia tools (including the amazing
   Amarok music player and K3B disc burning software), the Konqueror web
   browser and file manager, dozens of games and utilities,
   international language support, and more.

- A collection of GTK+ based applications including pidgin-2.7.11,
    gimp-2.6.11, gkrellm-2.3.5, xchat-2.8.8, xsane-0.998, and pan-0.134.

- A repository of extra software packages compiled and ready to run.
   This includes the Java(TM) 2 Software Development Kit Standard
   Edition, an MPlayer browser plugin, and more (see the /extra directory).

- Many more improved and upgraded packages than we can list here.  For
   a complete list of core packages in Slackware 13.37, see this file:

     ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-13.37/PACKAGES.TXT


Downloading Slackware 13.37:
---------------------------

     The full version of Slackware Linux 13.37 is available for download
from the central Slackware FTP sites hosted by our friends at
www.cwo.com and osuosl.org:

    ftp://slackware.osuosl.org/pub/slackware/slackware-13.37/
    ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-13.37/

If the sites are busy, see the list of official mirror sites here:

    http://slackware.com/getslack/

     We will be setting up BitTorrent downloads for the official ISO
images.  Stay tuned to http://slackware.com for the latest updates.

     Instructions for burning the Slackware tree onto install discs may
be found in the isolinux directory.


Purchasing Slackware on CD-ROM or DVD:
--------------------------------------

     Or, please consider purchasing the Slackware Linux 13.37 six CD-ROM
set or deluxe dual-sided DVD release directly from Slackware Linux, and
you'll be helping to support the continued development of Slackware
Linux!

     The DVD release has the 32-bit x86 Slackware 13.37 release on one
side, and the 64-bit x86_64 Slackware 13.37 release on the other.  Both
sides are bootable for easy installation, and includes everything from
both releases of Slackware 13.37, including the complete source code
trees.

     The 6 CD-ROM release of Slackware 13.37 is the 32-bit x86 edition.
It includes a bootable first CD-ROM for easy installation.  The 6
CD-ROMs are labeled for easy reference.

     The Slackware 13.37 x86 6 CD-ROM set is $49.95 plus shipping, or
choose the Slackware 13.37 x86/x86_64 dual-sided DVD (also $49.95 plus
shipping).

     Slackware Linux is also available by subscription.  When we release
a new version of Slackware (which is normally once or twice a year) we
ship it to you and bill your credit card for a reduced subscription
price ($32.99 for the CD-ROM set, or $39.95 for the DVD) plus shipping.

     For shipping options, see the Slackware store website.  Before
ordering express shipping, you may wish to check that we have the
product in stock. We make releases to the net at the same time as disc
production begins, so there is a lag between the online release and the
shipping of media. But, even if you download now you can still buy the
official media later. You'll feel good, be helping the project, and have
a great decorative item perfect for any computer room shelf.  :-)


Ordering Information:
---------------------

     You can order online at the Slackware Linux store:

         http://store.slackware.com

     Other Slackware items like t-shirts, caps, pins, and stickers can
also be found here.  These will help you find and identify yourself to
your fellow Slackware users.  Check out the new limited edition 1337
black Slackware T-shirt with the classic logo on the front and a custom
LILO boot screen on the back (with references to a few famous fictional
computers!  :-)

     Order inquiries (including questions about becoming a Slackware
reseller) may be directed to this address:  info at slackware.com


Have fun! :^)  I hope you find Slackware to be useful, and thanks
very much for your support of this project over the years.

---
Patrick J. Volkerding    <volkerdi at slackware.com>

Visit us on the web at:  http://slackware.com

Mr. B-o-B cried from the depths of the abyss...

> It's true! Slackware 13.37 has been released. Nearly a year in the making, 
> you will appreciate the performance and stability that can only come with 
> careful and rigorous testing. Slackware 13.37 uses the 2.6.37.6 Linux kernel 
> (hence our new $SLACKWARE_VERSION.$KERNEL_VERSION naming system used for this 
> release ;-), and also ships with 2.6.38.4 kernels for those who want to run 
> the latest (and also includes configuration files for 2.6.35.12 and 
> 2.6.39-rc4). The long-awaited Firefox 4.0 web browser is included, the X 
> Window System has been upgraded (and includes the open source nouveau driver 
> for nVidia cards). The venerable Slackware installer has been improved as 
> well, with support for installing to btrfs (for those who would like to try a 
> new copy on write filesystem), a one-package-per-line display mode option, 
> and alienBOB's big surprise: an easy to set up PXE install server that runs 
> right off the DVD!
>
> More details may by found in the official announcement and in the release 
> notes. For a complete list of included packages, see the package list.
>
> Please consider supporting the Slackware project by picking up a copy of the 
> Slackware 13.37 release from the Slackware Store. The discs are off to 
> replication, but we're accepting pre-orders for the official 6 CD set and the 
> DVD. The CD set is the 32-bit x86 release, while the DVD is a dual-sided disc 
> with the 32-bit x86 release on one side and the 64-bit x86_64 release on the 
> other. And, we still have T-shirts (coming soon, a limited edition 13.37 
> release commemorative black T-shirt with the classic Slackware logo on the 
> front, and a "leet" LILO bootscreen on the back) and other Slackware stuff 
> there, so have a look around. Thanks to our subscribers and supporters for 
> keeping Slackware going all these years.
>
> Thanks are again due to the Slackware crew, the developers of 
> slackbuilds.org, the community on linuxquestions.org, Slackware IRC channels, 
> and everyone else who helped out with this release.
>
> Have fun, and enjoy the new stable release!
>
> Pat and the Slackware crew
>
> Oh, in case our web server that's rather short of RAM goes down, try this 
> link: http://connie.slackware.com
>
> +--------------------------+
>
> This space intentionally left blank.
>
>
>





From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Apr 27 21:45:58 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 21:45:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104272144590.2362@localhost6.localdomain6>

I dunno, I don't really believe these kind of announcements unless I see 
THREE emails about it.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Mr. B-o-B wrote:

> Yes, it's that time again!  After many months of development and
> careful testing, we are proud to announce the release of Slackware
> version 13.37!



-Yaron

--

From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Wed Apr 27 21:54:07 2011
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 21:54:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104272144590.2362@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <0000195432@penguinpackets.com>

Ok, third notice:  

Slackware is 1337.? Even pinks will like it.  

Kelly  
>  Wed Apr 27 2011 09:45:58 PM CDT from  "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> 
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
>
>  
> I dunno, I don't really believe these kind of announcements unless I see 
> THREE emails about it.
> 
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> 
>  
>>Yes, it's that time again!  After many months of development and
>> careful testing, we are proud to announce the release of Slackware
>> version 13.37!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>

>  -Yaron
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>
>
>  

  

?
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 02:05:43 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 02:05:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104272144590.2362@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104272144590.2362@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104280158400.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Yaron wrote:

> I dunno, I don't really believe these kind of announcements unless I see 
> THREE emails about it.

A few weeks of preparatory announcments helped to convince me.  First I 
heard that an announcement might be coming, then there was a lot more 
excitement (from one person) about the announcement being imminent.  Then 
there was an announcement, and that was followed up by a confirmatory 
repetition of the announcement.

Now, finally, after the third announcement in one day I understand what 
all the commotion is about -- the version number is 13.37 which is script 
kiddy lingo for leet, short for elite.  So the excited user is finally 
going to become elite today.  Well, that is a big step and we all should 
congratulate him.

It's nice to hear that we "will appreciate the performance and stability 
that can only come with careful and rigorous testing."  I just ran Ubuntu 
for a full year without rebooting (I guess we have annual power failures). 
That's stable enough.  I also think Ubuntu is elite enough for me, but I'm 
not very discerning and my wife loves me anyway.

Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 10:40:01 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:40:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104280158400.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104272144590.2362@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104280158400.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim_4+t9NiO4aqzakHtJkwJWVGQm1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:05 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Yaron wrote:
>
>  I dunno, I don't really believe these kind of announcements unless I see
>> THREE emails about it.
>>
>
>   I also think Ubuntu is elite enough for me
>
> Mike
>

I have to confess I found the discussion about Slackware that was generated
by the mails informative.  Sounds like if their package management systems
was a little more polished I'd be really happy on that distro.  Mainly
because they don't slice-and-dice packages six different ways.  Generally,
when I install a library, I want the headers.  I get sick of having to go
back and hunt down fifteen -dev packages so I can build something.

-Rob
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From j at packetgod.com  Thu Apr 28 10:42:15 2011
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:42:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim_4+t9NiO4aqzakHtJkwJWVGQm1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104272144590.2362@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104280158400.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTim_4+t9NiO4aqzakHtJkwJWVGQm1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik-bwfPfURjhJUS7DkOroes9fr1Ww@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to go install Slackware right now over my Ubuntu Narwhal because I
want to be 1337 too.  Plus its time for a change, Ubuntu is getting too easy
and I'm starting to forget how to do stuff.  Or maybe I'm just getting old.

--j

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:05 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Yaron wrote:
>>
>>  I dunno, I don't really believe these kind of announcements unless I see
>>> THREE emails about it.
>>>
>>
>>   I also think Ubuntu is elite enough for me
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
> I have to confess I found the discussion about Slackware that was generated
> by the mails informative.  Sounds like if their package management systems
> was a little more polished I'd be really happy on that distro.  Mainly
> because they don't slice-and-dice packages six different ways.  Generally,
> when I install a library, I want the headers.  I get sick of having to go
> back and hunt down fifteen -dev packages so I can build something.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 11:05:45 2011
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:05:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Slackware 13.37 is released!
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik-bwfPfURjhJUS7DkOroes9fr1Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272005280.30613@alien.grunners.com>	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1104272008290.30638@alien.grunners.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104272144590.2362@localhost6.localdomain6>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104280158400.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>	<BANLkTim_4+t9NiO4aqzakHtJkwJWVGQm1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik-bwfPfURjhJUS7DkOroes9fr1Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DB99059.1070805@gmail.com>

On 04/28/11 10:42, J Cruit wrote:
> I'm going to go install Slackware right now over my Ubuntu Narwhal 
> because I want to be 1337 too.  Plus its time for a change, Ubuntu is 
> getting too easy and I'm starting to forget how to do stuff.  Or maybe 
> I'm just getting old.

I'm glad to hear this.  You will enjoy it!

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Apr 28 11:24:32 2011
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 11:24:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Install Fest! / Release Party @Penguins
 Unbound Meeting April 30th
Message-ID: <4DB994C0.3060602@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday April 30th at TIES,
at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 5:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

With the RELEASE of Ubuntu 11.04 today I thought it was a good time to 
send out the Install Fest/Release Party reminder!

At months Penguins Unbound Meeting
we will be having an

    INSTALL FEST / RELEASE PARTY!

with the release of Ubuntu 11.04!

Bring your computer, bring a friend and install LINUX!

(We will be happy to help you install _any_ version of Linux you would want)

You can Download the cd images from our unofficial mirror
   http://apt-cache.ties2.net/11.04-Natty

Here is an article that gives a overview on the new Unity interface
http://omgubuntu.co.uk/natty/

You may also want to load some of the suggestions from this article 
about what to install after you install 11.04.

http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/04/12-things-i-did-after-installing-new.html

Thanks.

Hope to see you there.

==>brian.

*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 12:18:05 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:18:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] A tale of two distros: Slackware 13.37 and Ubuntu
	11.04 released
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/tale-two-distros-slackware-1337-and-ubuntu-11

NetworkWorld.com Community
April 28, 2011

A tale of two distros: Slackware 13.37 and Ubuntu 11.04 released

By Joe Brockmeier

After months of development, one of the most important Linux distributions 
was released today. Of course I'm talking about Slackware 13.37 [1]. Oh, 
and the Ubuntu Project released 11.04 today [2] too " though by reading 
the press release you'd never know Ubuntu was actually a Linux 
distribution.

I kid a bit about Slackware being more important than Ubuntu " but it 
deserves a shout-out today just as much (if not more) than the Ubuntu 
release. Slackware is the longest-running Linux distribution (beating 
Debian by a few months) and was instrumental in putting Linux on the map. 
Other distributions may have eclipsed it in popularity " but without 
Slackware a lot of people might have missed out on Linux. It paved the 
way, and continues to offer Linux for the fun of it [3]. The 
consumer-facing release from Canonical doesn't even mention Ubuntu's 
heritage " positioning 11.04 as a release of "the Ubuntu operating 
system," rather than a Linux distro or giving props to the Debian base 
it's built on. It's OK, what's a little secret between friends? Android 
changed its name when it left the nest too, and it's doing OK.

If you skim through the release notes for Slackware 13.37 [1] or the press 
release for Ubuntu 11.04 [2], it might be hard to believe we're 
essentially talking about the same operating system. Despite differences 
in user interface, management tools, and default applications Slackware 
and Ubuntu still share most of the software they depend on " the Linux 
kernel, the GNU utilities, X.org, and so on. But from there, they diverge 
quite a bit.

Whereas Ubuntu 11.04 is going out into the world with a revamped desktop 
interface and a lot of features designed to simplify using Linux, 
Slackware offers a very similar installer and management tools that it did 
in 1993 " which is to say, very minimal tools.

This is Linux's weakness and strength. If you could channel all of the 
work that goes into various Linux distributions into one project, it would 
be unstoppable. It would also be unbelievable, because the nature of open 
source means that everybody can (and will) do their own thing. Some days, 
it seems like a shame " but the ability to do your own thing means that 
Linux can satisfy the needs of the many, and the few. Slackware Linux may 
not be for everybody, but neither is Ubuntu [4] " and it'd be a damn shame 
if we only had one or the other.

It's OK if Canonical wants to distance Ubuntu from Linux when it does the 
marketing thing, and try to jazz up the user interface in yet another 
attempt to conquer the desktop (and presumably other consumer devices). 
Maybe they'll succeed where others (many others) have failed. Meanwhile, 
we still have Slackware keeping the faith and providing its audience with 
the no-frills Linux experience that the "leet" still love.


Links:

[1] http://slackware.com/announce/13.37.php

[2] http://www.canonical.com/content/ubuntu-transforms-your-pc-experience

[3] https://lwn.net/Articles/434815/

[4] http://www.linuxjournal.com/video/unity-3-rants-and-tip

From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 12:24:30 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:24:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] An awesome time to be a Linux enthusiast.
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=a2fY-1JSj9+1sxxBrYEExrntN=w@mail.gmail.com>

With fedora15 running gnome 3 and Ubuntu in 11.04 today and LEET Slackware
release 13.37 I am have quite the week.
I have fedora 15 installed and I am downloading ubuntu and  slackware now.
Also Im setting up a myth TV server.
All of this in addition to doing may classes and writing Java. And studying
for the RedHat engineer exam.
Its great !
So my impressions of Gnome3 so far  the desktop interface is a pain in the
hand for mouse users.
If you use the keyboard shortcuts it works fine.  alt tab, alt F2, alt F1 to
get to the over view menu. A minor annoyance is to get to shutdown you have
to hit alt in the user menu.
It is a very nice looking desktop and I think with some tweaking its a good
user interface.
The shell stays under 1% cpu most of the time with nvidia graphics working
out of the box.
I will see how unity stacks up today.
Then it is on to slack ware where im sure MR. BoB will have an in depth
analysis. Cheers to you Mr. BoB !
,RJ
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From rclarksean at arvig.net  Thu Apr 28 12:40:06 2011
From: rclarksean at arvig.net (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:40:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu	11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net>

I have a laptop that I use for critical work functions.

Anyone upgraded to 11.04 yet?  I want to hold off as I cannot afford an
upgrade that then leaves me with issues to fix.  If anyone has experiences
to share as they do the upgrade on a laptop I would love to hear about it.

Thanks in advance.

Randy





From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Apr 28 12:59:20 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:59:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop?
In-Reply-To: <004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281257270.23672@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Randy Clarksean wrote:

> I have a laptop that I use for critical work functions.

Ok, if it's CRITICAL, and it WORKS RIGHT NOW, why would you want to 
upgrade? If it works, let it be.


If you MUST upgrade, I'd recommend making a niiiiiiice big huge backup 
first. Heck, depending on HOW critical this is I'd just get a new 
harddrive and install it on THAT, and then restore data from the old 
drive.

Seriously, "Critical" usualy means you're several versions behind 
everything else because stability trumps everything else.


-Yaron

--

From rclarksean at arvig.net  Thu Apr 28 13:18:01 2011
From: rclarksean at arvig.net (Randy Clarksean)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:18:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281257270.23672@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>	<004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281257270.23672@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <005301cc05d0$9bec8fd0$d3c5af70$@net>

>From original email ... 

" Anyone upgraded to 11.04 yet?  I want to hold off as I cannot afford an
upgrade that then leaves me with issues to fix.  If anyone has experiences
to share as they do the upgrade on a laptop I would love to hear about it."

Note the ... "I want to hold off ..."

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Yaron
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 12:59 PM
To: TCLUG
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop?

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Randy Clarksean wrote:

> I have a laptop that I use for critical work functions.

Ok, if it's CRITICAL, and it WORKS RIGHT NOW, why would you want to 
upgrade? If it works, let it be.


If you MUST upgrade, I'd recommend making a niiiiiiice big huge backup 
first. Heck, depending on HOW critical this is I'd just get a new 
harddrive and install it on THAT, and then restore data from the old 
drive.

Seriously, "Critical" usualy means you're several versions behind 
everything else because stability trumps everything else.


-Yaron

--
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




From tclug at jfoo.org  Thu Apr 28 14:31:53 2011
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:31:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] C++/*ix developers needed
Message-ID: <45339.167.206.189.6.1304019113.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org>

The company I work for needs 2 or 3 C++ developers in a Solaris environment.
Unix/Linux experience counts, in case you don't have Solaris experiences.
Includes database access, occasional other languages (python and lua).

If you are possibly interested, drop me an e-mail with your resume or
a brief note telling me about yourself.

Thanks

John



From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 15:53:20 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:53:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop?
In-Reply-To: <004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281546140.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Randy Clarksean wrote:

> I have a laptop that I use for critical work functions.
>
> Anyone upgraded to 11.04 yet?  I want to hold off as I cannot afford an 
> upgrade that then leaves me with issues to fix.  If anyone has 
> experiences to share as they do the upgrade on a laptop I would love to 
> hear about it.


I use an Asus netbook.  I ran Ubuntu Netbook Remix at first, then with 
10.10 I was a bit disappointed at the loss of some familiar functionality. 
I hear that 11.04 will be better.  I am doing it now and I'll post later 
to say what I think of the outcome.

Those other guys were right, though -- if you can't afford any trouble, I 
wouldn't upgrade today, on Day 1 of a new release.  If the machine is 
essential for work, I would, at the very least, wait until the end of the 
workday on Friday, try to upgrade then (after full backup of critical 
system data) and then go to the installfest on Saturday if you have a 
problem.  Even safer would be to wait a month so that if you have trouble, 
you can do Google searches to see how other people fixed their problems. 
On Day 1 Google can't be nearly as helpful.

Mike

From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 16:20:44 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:20:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER!
Message-ID: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>

This Saturday I graduate with my degree in network development.
To celebrate we are having a keg of leinenkugel's honey viceand a bunch of
food and grilling lawn games and fun.
Computer geeks will be on hand to joke around an talk computers and other
things an generally have a good time.
I am sorry I missed the TCLUG beer meeting and would like to invite fellow
Linux enthusiasts to my home.
It starts at 8 pm in Eagan.
You can mail me at webmaster at ron-l-j.com for more information.
,Ron
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From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Apr 28 16:29:38 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:29:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER!
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F87AD41A-8D34-4B1E-A83F-6DFA36D0F88A@me.com>

Congratulations on the completion of your studies!

On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:20 PM, r j wrote:

> This Saturday I graduate with my degree in network development.
> To celebrate we are having a keg of leinenkugel's honey viceand a bunch of food and grilling lawn games and fun.
> Computer geeks will be on hand to joke around an talk computers and other things an generally have a good time.
> I am sorry I missed the TCLUG beer meeting and would like to invite fellow Linux enthusiasts to my home.
> It starts at 8 pm in Eagan.
> You can mail me at webmaster at ron-l-j.com for more information.
> ,Ron
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 16:45:00 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:45:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] A tale of two distros: Slackware 13.37 and Ubuntu
 11.04 released
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikwvOziOBGWzOnqia6=H3ibKXz10A@mail.gmail.com>

i didn't read the links, but what you wrote was interesting.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/tale-two-distros-slackware-1337-and-ubuntu-11
>
> NetworkWorld.com Community
> April 28, 2011
>
> A tale of two distros: Slackware 13.37 and Ubuntu 11.04 released
>
> By Joe Brockmeier
>
> After months of development, one of the most important Linux distributions
> was released today. Of course I'm talking about Slackware 13.37 [1]. Oh, and
> the Ubuntu Project released 11.04 today [2] too " though by reading the
> press release you'd never know Ubuntu was actually a Linux distribution.
>
> I kid a bit about Slackware being more important than Ubuntu " but it
> deserves a shout-out today just as much (if not more) than the Ubuntu
> release. Slackware is the longest-running Linux distribution (beating Debian
> by a few months) and was instrumental in putting Linux on the map. Other
> distributions may have eclipsed it in popularity " but without Slackware a
> lot of people might have missed out on Linux. It paved the way, and
> continues to offer Linux for the fun of it [3]. The consumer-facing release
> from Canonical doesn't even mention Ubuntu's heritage " positioning 11.04 as
> a release of "the Ubuntu operating system," rather than a Linux distro or
> giving props to the Debian base it's built on. It's OK, what's a little
> secret between friends? Android changed its name when it left the nest too,
> and it's doing OK.
>
> If you skim through the release notes for Slackware 13.37 [1] or the press
> release for Ubuntu 11.04 [2], it might be hard to believe we're essentially
> talking about the same operating system. Despite differences in user
> interface, management tools, and default applications Slackware and Ubuntu
> still share most of the software they depend on " the Linux kernel, the GNU
> utilities, X.org, and so on. But from there, they diverge quite a bit.
>
> Whereas Ubuntu 11.04 is going out into the world with a revamped desktop
> interface and a lot of features designed to simplify using Linux, Slackware
> offers a very similar installer and management tools that it did in 1993 "
> which is to say, very minimal tools.
>
> This is Linux's weakness and strength. If you could channel all of the work
> that goes into various Linux distributions into one project, it would be
> unstoppable. It would also be unbelievable, because the nature of open
> source means that everybody can (and will) do their own thing. Some days, it
> seems like a shame " but the ability to do your own thing means that Linux
> can satisfy the needs of the many, and the few. Slackware Linux may not be
> for everybody, but neither is Ubuntu [4] " and it'd be a damn shame if we
> only had one or the other.
>
> It's OK if Canonical wants to distance Ubuntu from Linux when it does the
> marketing thing, and try to jazz up the user interface in yet another
> attempt to conquer the desktop (and presumably other consumer devices).
> Maybe they'll succeed where others (many others) have failed. Meanwhile, we
> still have Slackware keeping the faith and providing its audience with the
> no-frills Linux experience that the "leet" still love.
>
>
> Links:
>
> [1] http://slackware.com/announce/13.37.php
>
> [2] http://www.canonical.com/content/ubuntu-transforms-your-pc-experience
>
> [3] https://lwn.net/Articles/434815/
>
> [4] http://www.linuxjournal.com/video/unity-3-rants-and-tip
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 16:47:52 2011
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:47:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER!
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinGecZmODJCS5uKWGN+WkCHt2FqTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:20 PM, r j <ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote:

> This Saturday I graduate with my degree in network development.
>

w00t!

Congrats dude!
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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 16:48:35 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:48:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER!
In-Reply-To: <F87AD41A-8D34-4B1E-A83F-6DFA36D0F88A@me.com>
References: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<F87AD41A-8D34-4B1E-A83F-6DFA36D0F88A@me.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinCzUsjo3Gz3pzCcYx8CLEJDp_kZg@mail.gmail.com>

yeah, congratulations!  my little brother is taking me out to eat tonight so
i will not make it.  i would have liked to support you and celebrate your
achievement.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> Congratulations on the completion of your studies!
>
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:20 PM, r j wrote:
>
> This Saturday I graduate with my degree in network development.
> To celebrate we are having a keg of leinenkugel's honey viceand a bunch of
> food and grilling lawn games and fun.
> Computer geeks will be on hand to joke around an talk computers and other
> things an generally have a good time.
> I am sorry I missed the TCLUG beer meeting and would like to invite fellow
> Linux enthusiasts to my home.
> It starts at 8 pm in Eagan.
> You can mail me at webmaster at ron-l-j.com for more information.
> ,Ron
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 16:49:21 2011
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 16:49:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER!
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=Z5_1O3ns3FiCup50XY1Abg-G-uw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:20 PM, r j <ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote:

> This Saturday I graduate with my degree in network development.
>

w00t!

Congrats dude!
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 17:32:59 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:32:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] A tale of two distros: Slackware 13.37 and Ubuntu
 11.04 released
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikwvOziOBGWzOnqia6=H3ibKXz10A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<BANLkTikwvOziOBGWzOnqia6=H3ibKXz10A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281732110.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2011, Samael wrote:

> i didn't read the links, but what you wrote was interesting.

Just to be clear -- it is an article by Joe Brockmeier and I had nothing 
to do with writing it.

Mike



> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/tale-two-distros-slackware-1337-and-ubuntu-11
>>
>> NetworkWorld.com Community
>> April 28, 2011
>>
>> A tale of two distros: Slackware 13.37 and Ubuntu 11.04 released
>>
>> By Joe Brockmeier
>>
>> After months of development, one of the most important Linux 
>> distributions was released today. Of course I'm talking about Slackware 
>> 13.37 [1]. Oh, and the Ubuntu Project released 11.04 today [2] too " 
>> though by reading the press release you'd never know Ubuntu was 
>> actually a Linux distribution.
>>
>> I kid a bit about Slackware being more important than Ubuntu " but it 
>> deserves a shout-out today just as much (if not more) than the Ubuntu 
>> release. Slackware is the longest-running Linux distribution (beating 
>> Debian by a few months) and was instrumental in putting Linux on the 
>> map. Other distributions may have eclipsed it in popularity " but 
>> without Slackware a lot of people might have missed out on Linux. It 
>> paved the way, and continues to offer Linux for the fun of it [3]. The 
>> consumer-facing release from Canonical doesn't even mention Ubuntu's 
>> heritage " positioning 11.04 as a release of "the Ubuntu operating 
>> system," rather than a Linux distro or giving props to the Debian base 
>> it's built on. It's OK, what's a little secret between friends? Android 
>> changed its name when it left the nest too, and it's doing OK.
>>
>> If you skim through the release notes for Slackware 13.37 [1] or the 
>> press release for Ubuntu 11.04 [2], it might be hard to believe we're 
>> essentially talking about the same operating system. Despite 
>> differences in user interface, management tools, and default 
>> applications Slackware and Ubuntu still share most of the software they 
>> depend on " the Linux kernel, the GNU utilities, X.org, and so on. But 
>> from there, they diverge quite a bit.
>>
>> Whereas Ubuntu 11.04 is going out into the world with a revamped 
>> desktop interface and a lot of features designed to simplify using 
>> Linux, Slackware offers a very similar installer and management tools 
>> that it did in 1993 " which is to say, very minimal tools.
>>
>> This is Linux's weakness and strength. If you could channel all of the 
>> work that goes into various Linux distributions into one project, it 
>> would be unstoppable. It would also be unbelievable, because the nature 
>> of open source means that everybody can (and will) do their own thing. 
>> Some days, it seems like a shame " but the ability to do your own thing 
>> means that Linux can satisfy the needs of the many, and the few. 
>> Slackware Linux may not be for everybody, but neither is Ubuntu [4] " 
>> and it'd be a damn shame if we only had one or the other.
>>
>> It's OK if Canonical wants to distance Ubuntu from Linux when it does 
>> the marketing thing, and try to jazz up the user interface in yet 
>> another attempt to conquer the desktop (and presumably other consumer 
>> devices). Maybe they'll succeed where others (many others) have failed. 
>> Meanwhile, we still have Slackware keeping the faith and providing its 
>> audience with the no-frills Linux experience that the "leet" still 
>> love.
>>
>>
>> Links:
>>
>> [1] http://slackware.com/announce/13.37.php
>>
>> [2] http://www.canonical.com/content/ubuntu-transforms-your-pc-experience
>>
>> [3] https://lwn.net/Articles/434815/
>>
>> [4] http://www.linuxjournal.com/video/unity-3-rants-and-tip

From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 19:11:07 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:11:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Verdict = Gnome3
Message-ID: <BANLkTin4o_zRhdL7UiCqW-5LQCpZOP4=mQ@mail.gmail.com>

After using Unity for a couple of hours it pales in comparison to gnome3
shell.
11.04 is getting better and unity may be your cup of tea. But not mine.
At first I thought Gnome3 was a little clunky to operate. Then I started
navigating Unity.
With the apps that are avaible to down load the first app was grivin. So i
downlod it and run the app.
It loads then asked to install a workspace. I try to install a work space
but it failes because there is no existing workspace files. it fails to
create a new work space.
And I think to my self, hmm this would be great for a new user to encounter.
A non working app suggested as the first app to download.
I think I will wipe the still ugly Ubuntu 1104 from my laptop.
Fedora 15 beta wins over ubuntu today.
,Ron
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From kcbnac at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 23:32:23 2011
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:32:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 released ... anyone tried on laptop?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281546140.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281213040.25389@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<004e01cc05cb$4ff72a40$efe57ec0$@net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1104281546140.9584@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=RoQ3tBHDx5GVyRGRawsay17B5Bg@mail.gmail.com>

^What they said^

Heck, I'm not even adding it to my local ubuntu mirror for a few weeks
(gonna be a LOT of bugfixing in the next month; what with the massive
UI changes, etc) - hold off for a few weeks at least.  If you REALLY
want to see how it'd run, try cloning your install into a VM and then
upgrade that.  That will tell you at least software-wise if it'll work
- hardware issues beyond that.

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 08:27:10 2011
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 08:27:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Extracting ISOs via command line
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=1G5MgQ3UDtx69XCKB=FJandu+EA@mail.gmail.com>

I have a need to extract an ISO image that gets automaticallly generated.
I'd like to do this via cli in a script.  Problem: this script will not be
run as root and therefore mounting/copying files is not an option.  I need
an actual extraction that can be run as a normal user.

Does such a utility even exist on linux?  Google has turned up nothing
useful.

Brian

Seeent from a phone excude the sprlling errora
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From 13.finn at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 08:51:24 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 08:51:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Extracting ISOs via command line
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=1G5MgQ3UDtx69XCKB=FJandu+EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=1G5MgQ3UDtx69XCKB=FJandu+EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DBAC25C.8090800@gmail.com>

On 04/29/2011 08:27 AM, Brian Wall wrote:
> I have a need to extract an ISO image that gets automaticallly
> generated.  I'd like to do this via cli in a script.  Problem: this
> script will not be run as root and therefore mounting/copying files is
> not an option.  I need an actual extraction that can be run as a normal
> user.
> 
> Does such a utility even exist on linux?  Google has turned up nothing
> useful.
Many plugins use FuseISO for this, perhaps that will allow a cli option.

-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
  - Dr. Seuss

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 08:54:49 2011
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 08:54:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Extracting ISOs via command line
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=1G5MgQ3UDtx69XCKB=FJandu+EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=1G5MgQ3UDtx69XCKB=FJandu+EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikGEwsTTcBTpk46q6mgpjbZAGbS4A@mail.gmail.com>

Found it! 7zip supports iso files.

$ 7z e -r myiso.iso

Since this info is seemingly hard to find on Google, hopefully this will
benefit others as well.

Brian
On Apr 29, 2011 8:27 AM, "Brian Wall" <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a need to extract an ISO image that gets automaticallly generated.
> I'd like to do this via cli in a script. Problem: this script will not be
> run as root and therefore mounting/copying files is not an option. I need
> an actual extraction that can be run as a normal user.
>
> Does such a utility even exist on linux? Google has turned up nothing
> useful.
>
> Brian
>
> Seeent from a phone excude the sprlling errora
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From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 13:13:15 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:13:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER!
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikMukoNDXniFQXCw-en_tsfaFUwAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikCqtu8j8z=jzj1edwQhXqkYxSCLg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:20 PM, r j <ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote:

> This Saturday I graduate with my degree in network development.
> To celebrate we are having a keg of leinenkugel's honey viceand a bunch of
> food and grilling lawn games and fun.
> Computer geeks will be on hand to joke around an talk computers and other
> things an generally have a good time.
> I am sorry I missed the TCLUG beer meeting and would like to invite fellow
> Linux enthusiasts to my home.
> It starts at 8 pm in Eagan.
> You can mail me at webmaster at ron-l-j.com for more information.
> ,Ron
>
>
Awesome to see good news like this for anyone on the list.  Gratz man.

Enjoy that kegger.  :)

-Rob
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From eric.schultz at mchsi.com  Fri Apr 29 13:30:15 2011
From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (Eric Schultz)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:30:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER!
In-Reply-To: <1445480914.2843261304101232197.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>
Message-ID: <1738716146.2844961304101815283.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>



Congrats, for the dedication and achievement.? I wish the best to you and your family for your future endeavers.? 



Enjoy a beer for me please...love Honeywiess... 



Eric ? 




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Nesius" <nesius at gmail.com> 
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:13:15 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central 
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Free as in FREE BEER! 




On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:20 PM, r j < ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com > wrote: 


This Saturday I graduate with my degree in network development. 
To celebrate we are having a keg of leinenkugel's honey viceand a bunch of food and grilling lawn games and fun. 
Computer geeks will be on hand to joke around an talk computers and other things an generally have a good time. 
I am sorry I missed the TCLUG beer meeting and would like to invite fellow Linux enthusiasts to my home. 
It starts at 8 pm in Eagan. 
You can mail me at webmaster at ron-l-j.com for more information. 
,Ron 



Awesome to see good news like this for anyone on the list.? Gratz man.? 

Enjoy that kegger.? :) 

-Rob 

_______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 14:18:30 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:18:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Extracting ISOs via command line
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikGEwsTTcBTpk46q6mgpjbZAGbS4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=1G5MgQ3UDtx69XCKB=FJandu+EA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikGEwsTTcBTpk46q6mgpjbZAGbS4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinjAFvHCGLnoMJAQyz0+p7mhGSPrg@mail.gmail.com>

i learned something.

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:

> Found it! 7zip supports iso files.
>
> $ 7z e -r myiso.iso
>
> Since this info is seemingly hard to find on Google, hopefully this will
> benefit others as well.
>
> Brian
> On Apr 29, 2011 8:27 AM, "Brian Wall" <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have a need to extract an ISO image that gets automaticallly generated.
> > I'd like to do this via cli in a script. Problem: this script will not be
> > run as root and therefore mounting/copying files is not an option. I need
> > an actual extraction that can be run as a normal user.
> >
> > Does such a utility even exist on linux? Google has turned up nothing
> > useful.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > Seeent from a phone excude the sprlling errora
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 16:38:19 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:38:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Extracting ISOs via command line
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinjAFvHCGLnoMJAQyz0+p7mhGSPrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=1G5MgQ3UDtx69XCKB=FJandu+EA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikGEwsTTcBTpk46q6mgpjbZAGbS4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinjAFvHCGLnoMJAQyz0+p7mhGSPrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim9vkW=WFufkZgvWj04zsxfSkNrXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:

> i learned something.
>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Found it! 7zip supports iso files.
>>
>> $ 7z e -r myiso.iso
>>
>> Since this info is seemingly hard to find on Google, hopefully this will
>> benefit others as well.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
Thanks for the tip.  I've only ever used it on Windows platforms - didn't
know 7z was available on GNU/Linux.

-Rob
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 18:13:27 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:13:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Some Customer Data Permanently Destroyed in Amazon
	Cloud Crash
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104291754350.8460@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104291754350.8460@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104291813050.8460@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Check out the SANS tidbit below and links to articles.  I use gmail, but 
every five minutes fetchmail grabs new messages and copies them to my 
Ubuntu box -- all of my email is stored there (using RAID 1) and then 
backed up somewhere else.  I can't see myself using "the cloud" without 
retaining local copies.

Mike


**************************************************************************
SANS NewsBites                April 29, 2011             Vol. 13, Num. 034
**************************************************************************

TOP OF THE NEWS
   --Some Customer Data Permanently Destroyed in Amazon Cloud Crash
(April 28, 2011)

The crash of Amazon's cloud services not only inconvenienced its customers 
because of web site inaccessibility, but in some cases, data were 
permanently destroyed.  A thorough explanation of the crash has not yet 
been offered.  Two businesses that use Amazon's cloud services managed to 
continue running undisrupted during the crash because they had taken 
measures themselves to protect themselves from such an incident.

http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/28/6549775-amazons-cloud-crash-destroyed-many-customers-data
http://www.informationweek.com/news/cloud-computing/infrastructure/229402385

Editor's Notes:

(Ranum): You can put your data in the cloud - it's getting it back that's 
the hard part.

(Schultz): Amazon has an excellent reputation as a cloud service provider; 
I am baffled by what happened. At the same time, there is a huge lesson to 
be learned here--never, never completely rely on a cloud provider for 
anything--always have a plan B, as the two businesses mentioned in this 
story so nicely illustrate.

From steventrapp at comcast.net  Fri Apr 29 19:12:03 2011
From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven Trapp)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:12:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Verdict = Gnome3
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin4o_zRhdL7UiCqW-5LQCpZOP4=mQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin4o_zRhdL7UiCqW-5LQCpZOP4=mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DBB53D3.9090908@comcast.net>

Ron-

When I heard what the chiefs were planning for Ubuntu 11.04 (i.e., Unity), I
dropped them like a rock. Since Ubuntu is a fork off from (they call it 
*upstream*
and *downstream* these days) Debian, I converted to Debian. Debian is still
at Gnome2 currently.

I'm writing because I thought Gnome3 wasn't officially released yet. How 
did the
Fedorans get that?!

What is your opinion on Gnome2 versus Gnome3--at the present time. That 
is, is
Gnome3 kind of rough around the edges (not quite ready for prime time) 
or is it
very ready. Is Gnome3 bloated? Would you rather run Gnome2 or (Gnome3 as it
is on Fedora)?

[What I'd REALLY like to know is:
A) when does Gnome3 officially release?
B) length of time until it appears in an official Debian release.
C) how much speed and memory will a PCclone require for Debian with 
Gnome3? (i.e., do I have to replace
my antiquated system?)
But then, *NOONE* knows THESE!!]

Thank you very kindly in advance.

So far, debian looks good. The load average drops to 0.00 when I don't 
type in enough stuff. On Ubuntu-9.10?,
10.04 and 10.10, it never dropped to below around 0.20--0.0 reminds me 
of when I was working on
Solaris machines. (Do stuff--it spikes.  Stop doing stuff--it drops to 
0.00. Life is good. This is how it should be!)

Aloha.  :)
-Steve

On 04/28/2011 07:11 PM, r j wrote:
> After using Unity for a couple of hours it pales in comparison to 
> gnome3 shell.
> 11.04 is getting better and unity may be your cup of tea. But not mine.
> At first I thought Gnome3 was a little clunky to operate. Then I 
> started navigating Unity.
> With the apps that are avaible to down load the first app was grivin. 
> So i downlod it and run the app.
> It loads then asked to install a workspace. I try to install a work 
> space but it failes because there is no existing workspace files. it 
> fails to create a new work space.
> And I think to my self, hmm this would be great for a new user to 
> encounter. A non working app suggested as the first app to download.
> I think I will wipe the still ugly Ubuntu 1104 from my laptop.
> Fedora 15 beta wins over ubuntu today.
> ,Ron
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>    

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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Apr 29 19:42:39 2011
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:42:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Verdict = Gnome3
In-Reply-To: <4DBB53D3.9090908@comcast.net>
References: <BANLkTin4o_zRhdL7UiCqW-5LQCpZOP4=mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBB53D3.9090908@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4DBB5AFF.7070806@Goecke-Dolan.com>


Gnome 3 came out a little while ago.

Wikipedia says April 6th.

==>brian.

Steven Trapp wrote:
> Ron-
> 
> When I heard what the chiefs were planning for Ubuntu 11.04 (i.e., Unity), I
> dropped them like a rock. Since Ubuntu is a fork off from (they call it 
> *upstream*
> and *downstream* these days) Debian, I converted to Debian. Debian is still
> at Gnome2 currently.
> 
> I'm writing because I thought Gnome3 wasn't officially released yet. How 
> did the
> Fedorans get that?!
> 
> What is your opinion on Gnome2 versus Gnome3--at the present time. That 
> is, is
> Gnome3 kind of rough around the edges (not quite ready for prime time) 
> or is it
> very ready. Is Gnome3 bloated? Would you rather run Gnome2 or (Gnome3 as it
> is on Fedora)?
> 
> [What I'd REALLY like to know is:
> A) when does Gnome3 officially release?
> B) length of time until it appears in an official Debian release.
> C) how much speed and memory will a PCclone require for Debian with 
> Gnome3? (i.e., do I have to replace
> my antiquated system?)
> But then, *NOONE* knows THESE!!]
> 
> Thank you very kindly in advance.
> 
> So far, debian looks good. The load average drops to 0.00 when I don't 
> type in enough stuff. On Ubuntu-9.10?,
> 10.04 and 10.10, it never dropped to below around 0.20--0.0 reminds me 
> of when I was working on
> Solaris machines. (Do stuff--it spikes.  Stop doing stuff--it drops to 
> 0.00. Life is good. This is how it should be!)
> 
> Aloha.  :)
> -Steve
> 
> On 04/28/2011 07:11 PM, r j wrote:
>> After using Unity for a couple of hours it pales in comparison to 
>> gnome3 shell.
>> 11.04 is getting better and unity may be your cup of tea. But not mine.
>> At first I thought Gnome3 was a little clunky to operate. Then I 
>> started navigating Unity.
>> With the apps that are avaible to down load the first app was grivin. 
>> So i downlod it and run the app.
>> It loads then asked to install a workspace. I try to install a work 
>> space but it failes because there is no existing workspace files. it 
>> fails to create a new work space.
>> And I think to my self, hmm this would be great for a new user to 
>> encounter. A non working app suggested as the first app to download.
>> I think I will wipe the still ugly Ubuntu 1104 from my laptop.
>> Fedora 15 beta wins over ubuntu today.
>> ,Ron
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From sraun at fireopal.org  Fri Apr 29 21:31:22 2011
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:31:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Verdict = Gnome3
In-Reply-To: <4DBB53D3.9090908@comcast.net>
References: <BANLkTin4o_zRhdL7UiCqW-5LQCpZOP4=mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DBB53D3.9090908@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20110430023122.GA12711@fireopal.org>

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 07:12:03PM -0500, Steven Trapp wrote:
> [What I'd REALLY like to know is:
> A) when does Gnome3 officially release?

According to http://www.gnome.org/, "Gnome 3 is here!"

> B) length of time until it appears in an official Debian release.

I'd guess Unstable could be any time, Testing a couple-three months,
and Stable whenever Testing rolls to Stable.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

From steventrapp at comcast.net  Fri Apr 29 22:12:40 2011
From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven Trapp)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 22:12:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Verdict = Gnome3
In-Reply-To: <20110430023122.GA12711@fireopal.org>
References: <BANLkTin4o_zRhdL7UiCqW-5LQCpZOP4=mQ@mail.gmail.com>	<4DBB53D3.9090908@comcast.net>
	<20110430023122.GA12711@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <4DBB7E28.9010108@comcast.net>

On 04/29/2011 09:31 PM, Scott Raun wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 07:12:03PM -0500, Steven Trapp wrote:
>    
>> [What I'd REALLY like to know is:
>> A) when does Gnome3 officially release?
>>      
>    
> According to http://www.gnome.org/, "Gnome 3 is here!"
>    

Oops. My blunder. I had heard/thought it was likely MidMay
for Gnome3 (why I would think that I don't recall), so I had not been
bothering to check lately...  [Sorry about that, folks--did NOT do
"due diligence" (i.e., google/check official project website/etc.)!]
>    
>> B) length of time until it appears in an official Debian release.
>>      
> I'd guess Unstable could be any time, Testing a couple-three months,
> and Stable whenever Testing rolls to Stable.
>
>    
Being new to Debian, and not knowing how Debian decides to release
things, that last paragraph HELPS me understand things a lot. (Thanks,
Scott).

Aloha.  :)   (I've been signing Aloha lately because Spring has been cold,
                   and Hawaii makes me think of 85deg.Fahr. weather).
-Steve Trapp

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From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 00:30:37 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 00:30:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] gnome3/Aloha_steve
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=1-gexgHVkvH63KpAxRo-9LVhFRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Aloha Steve,

I like Gnome2 and I always will. But I have the hardware and I?m
changing with the times. If certain graphics cards aren't found on
boot-up, it defaults to a gnome-panel + metacity.

If you have a graphics card gnome3 will use it, or if no driver for the card
is found you have to install it yourself.
A) when does Gnome3 officially release?

GNOME 3 was released on 6th April 2011 and is looking like a target for
multiple screen sizes, tablets, and netbooks.

B) length of time until it appears in an official Debian release.

Unknown currently Debian lists it as experimental, with a binary tag
of: Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:03:31 +0000

Source: gnome-shell

Binary: gnome-shell

Architecture: source i386

Version: 3.0.0.2-1

Maintainer: Rapha?l Hertzog
hertzog at debian.org

Distribution: experimental

Urgency: low  <Its going to be a long time !



C) how much speed and memory will a PCclone require for Debian with
Gnome3? (i.e., do I have to replace
my antiquated system?)
But then, *NOONE* knows THESE!!] Yeah that is a memory flame war about to
start. It will slow down your old dust  bunny box a lot. If it?s really old
why do you need a desktop? Use CLI and Lynx.

I would suggest looking at the fedora test and bug reports in a handy table
layout for graphics card tests.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-22_Nouveau
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-23_Radeon
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-24_Intel

Aloha.  XD
-Ron
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