From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Feb  1 09:32:31 2011
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:32:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I recover files from an accidentally
	reformatted drive?
Message-ID: <20110201093231.601bb8ef.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I've been providing free computer recovery services in exchange for a testimonial and recommendation. 

I have a client with a 500 GB hard drive that originally had an NTFS partition for about the first 370 GB and a Linux partition for the rest. He tried to install Ubuntu on the Linux partition. But for some reason, the installer reformatted the entire drive as ext4. He then reformatted the first 370 GB or so as NTFS to get the original formatting back so he could recover the Windows files from the original partition. However, the original Windows files did not appear, and Iolo Search and Recover couldn't find the files either. 

What do you suggest for recovering the files? PhotoRec will take 100 hours and does NOT recover filenames or the directory structure. I'll end up with numerous files with random names, and many of these files will be system files rather than personal files. What alternatives to PhotoRec do you suggest? I need something that's both faster AND that saves filenames and the directory structure.

This is so much more difficult than recovering files from a bad Windows installation, which merely requires booting up a Linux live CD and copying the files to an external drive.

This is so much more difficult than recovering files from a bad hard drive.  I've found that if PhotoRec can read the hard drive (which it always has as long as the drive spins), Puppy Linux can do so as well.  Thus, Puppy Linux is my favorite tool for copying files from a bad hard drive to a good drive.  It takes a long time, but it works well and even preserves filenames and directories.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From admin at lctn.org  Tue Feb  1 10:08:05 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:08:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] camera system
Message-ID: <7642C7C7-50CA-4E08-9C01-78D5F93BCC26@lctn.org>

Is zoneminder a good solution for a camera security system, or is there a better solution?

Would like to use IP or BNC/RCA camera, with DVR capability.



From kc0iog at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 18:51:50 2011
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:51:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I recover files from an accidentally
 reformatted drive?
In-Reply-To: <20110201093231.601bb8ef.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20110201093231.601bb8ef.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimahyZx=3eo4faAJ5YKQ4n4PQskyGPivVduSM+i@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> I have a client with a 500 GB hard drive that originally had an NTFS partition for about the first 370 GB and a Linux partition for the rest. He tried to install Ubuntu on the Linux partition. But for some reason, the installer reformatted the entire drive as ext4. He then reformatted the first 370 GB or so as NTFS to get the original formatting back so he could recover the Windows files from the original partition. However, the original Windows files did not appear, and Iolo Search and Recover couldn't find the files either.

This may be beyond software recovery.  If the file system has been
written over twice (ext4 format and NTFS format) there's a good chance
that software won't see any bits (they're still there in the form of a
magnetic "shadow" but you'll never find that with software alone).

The best tool I've ever used for NTFS file recovery is Ontrack
Easyrecovery Pro.  You can download the free version and it will
perform a full scan.  Of course if it finds the files you have to feed
it money, at which time your client asks "how much is that data
worth?"

For future reference, if you or your clients or anyone on this list
ever does something destructive to a drive (like accidentally
formatting the wrong partition), STOP IMMEDIATELY.  Shut off the
computer and uncable the drive before continuing.  If you only made
one mis-step (whacking the partition table, reformatting the worng
partition, etc) there is a better than 50/50 chance that the data is
recoverable by software.  Not all the bits get touched usually which
means data exists in some form.  It's usually that SECOND step (in
this case, repartitioning and reformatting) that causes the write(s)
that kill the data.  It is for this reason that the data is likely
beyond the capabilities of software.  Your client needs to have his
credit card ready in any case :-)

Best of luck to you!

Brian

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 18:52:30 2011
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:52:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I recover files from an accidentally
 reformatted drive?
In-Reply-To: <20110201093231.601bb8ef.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20110201093231.601bb8ef.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <4D49FC4E.5000308@gmail.com>

Getting original filenames in that instance might prove difficult with 
all that reformatting. Photorec should also come packaged with another 
application called testdisk, which can help recover deleted and damaged 
partitions. Testdisk is great for rebuilding partitions which may help 
allow you to further recover files with their original file names- both 
of which you can do with testdisk. Or, if you're feeling real 
adventurous, the command line tool hexedit or the gui tool wxheditor are 
great for handling drives- both have search capabilities which would 
allow for rebuilding via hex.

The thing with photorec and other tools like it (ie. scalpel) is that it 
is only signature based, so it has no way of obtaining original file 
names because it only cares about file type headers and their endings 
(or likely endings). The advantage to this is that you're more likely to 
get the most amount of files recovered (a smaller puzzle with fewer 
pieces).

I'd also like to remind you of the licensing agreement with the software 
you are using. It might be worth taking a peak at as I recall I don't 
believe it can be used for profit (your use of the word "client" leads 
me to believe a profit is involved) without consent of the author.  Just 
a heads up, I appreciate this guys work and I'd hate to see it misused.

*Jeremy MountainJohnson*
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com <mailto:jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com>


On 02/01/2011 09:32 AM, Jason Hsu wrote:
> I've been providing free computer recovery services in exchange for a testimonial and recommendation.
>
> I have a client with a 500 GB hard drive that originally had an NTFS partition for about the first 370 GB and a Linux partition for the rest. He tried to install Ubuntu on the Linux partition. But for some reason, the installer reformatted the entire drive as ext4. He then reformatted the first 370 GB or so as NTFS to get the original formatting back so he could recover the Windows files from the original partition. However, the original Windows files did not appear, and Iolo Search and Recover couldn't find the files either.
>
> What do you suggest for recovering the files? PhotoRec will take 100 hours and does NOT recover filenames or the directory structure. I'll end up with numerous files with random names, and many of these files will be system files rather than personal files. What alternatives to PhotoRec do you suggest? I need something that's both faster AND that saves filenames and the directory structure.
>
> This is so much more difficult than recovering files from a bad Windows installation, which merely requires booting up a Linux live CD and copying the files to an external drive.
>
> This is so much more difficult than recovering files from a bad hard drive.  I've found that if PhotoRec can read the hard drive (which it always has as long as the drive spins), Puppy Linux can do so as well.  Thus, Puppy Linux is my favorite tool for copying files from a bad hard drive to a good drive.  It takes a long time, but it works well and even preserves filenames and directories.
>

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Feb  2 10:02:57 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:02:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] scripting screen questions
Message-ID: <4D498031.5000900@trutwins.homeip.net>

Hi all, hoping someone has some experience scripting screen, the best 
powertool ever.  :)

I have a little csh script I use to apply long running processes to 
various boxen - condensed for illustration:

runit.sh:
#!/bin/csh

foreach lin (lin1 lin2 linfoo linbaz)
   ssh $lin "$1"
end

Then I can run this to kick off a long running process on all 4:

./runit.sh "screen -d -m /some/long/script.sh"

Then I can log into each box and type screen -dr to see the progress, 
ctrl-a d to detach then logoff.

A couple problems I'm having.  #1 - I can't seem to parametrize 
script.sh - I'd like to be able to do this:

./runit.sh "screen -d -m /some/long/script.sh foo bar"

But that seems to exit immediately each time.  I tried to do it locally 
without the ssh stuff to see if maybe quoting would help, but even if I 
log into a box directly and do this it fails:

screen -d -m '/some/long/script.sh foo bar'

#2 I'd also like to take the output this script generates and tee it 
into a log file - something like:

screen -d -m '/som/long/script.sh | tee /var/log/myscript.log'

Interestingly this will create the log file, run the script, but not 
redirect the ouptut.

Anyway, if anyone has any non-religious thoughts on either or both of 
these I'd appreciate it whilst I dig through screen docs.

screen is 4.00.03

Random screen nugget:

screen
ctrl-a S
ctrl-a Tab
ctrl-a c

You now have a terminal window split into two sessions that you can use 
ctrl-a Tab to switch between - handy for tailing a log in one and 
working in the other.  In ubuntu I think you can do ctrl-a | instead of 
S to get a vertical split...

Thx,

Josh

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed Feb  2 19:10:03 2011
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 19:10:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I recover files from an accidentally
 reformatted drive?
In-Reply-To: <4D49FC4E.5000308@gmail.com>
References: <20110201093231.601bb8ef.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
	<4D49FC4E.5000308@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110202191003.9262b71b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

My client was the one who reformatted the drive twice.  I've taken care to avoid changing anything on the drive.

Instead of charging my clients money, I'm asking for a reference and recommendation for a "real" forensics job.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:52:30 -0600
Jeremy MountainJohnson <jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Getting original filenames in that instance might prove difficult with 
> all that reformatting. Photorec should also come packaged with another 
> application called testdisk, which can help recover deleted and damaged 
> partitions. Testdisk is great for rebuilding partitions which may help 
> allow you to further recover files with their original file names- both 
> of which you can do with testdisk. Or, if you're feeling real 
> adventurous, the command line tool hexedit or the gui tool wxheditor are 
> great for handling drives- both have search capabilities which would 
> allow for rebuilding via hex.
> 
> The thing with photorec and other tools like it (ie. scalpel) is that it 
> is only signature based, so it has no way of obtaining original file 
> names because it only cares about file type headers and their endings 
> (or likely endings). The advantage to this is that you're more likely to 
> get the most amount of files recovered (a smaller puzzle with fewer 
> pieces).
> 
> I'd also like to remind you of the licensing agreement with the software 
> you are using. It might be worth taking a peak at as I recall I don't 
> believe it can be used for profit (your use of the word "client" leads 
> me to believe a profit is involved) without consent of the author.  Just 
> a heads up, I appreciate this guys work and I'd hate to see it misused.
> 
> *Jeremy MountainJohnson*
> jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com <mailto:jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> On 02/01/2011 09:32 AM, Jason Hsu wrote:
> > I've been providing free computer recovery services in exchange for a testimonial and recommendation.
> >
> > I have a client with a 500 GB hard drive that originally had an NTFS partition for about the first 370 GB and a Linux partition for the rest. He tried to install Ubuntu on the Linux partition. But for some reason, the installer reformatted the entire drive as ext4. He then reformatted the first 370 GB or so as NTFS to get the original formatting back so he could recover the Windows files from the original partition. However, the original Windows files did not appear, and Iolo Search and Recover couldn't find the files either.
> >
> > What do you suggest for recovering the files? PhotoRec will take 100 hours and does NOT recover filenames or the directory structure. I'll end up with numerous files with random names, and many of these files will be system files rather than personal files. What alternatives to PhotoRec do you suggest? I need something that's both faster AND that saves filenames and the directory structure.
> >
> > This is so much more difficult than recovering files from a bad Windows installation, which merely requires booting up a Linux live CD and copying the files to an external drive.
> >
> > This is so much more difficult than recovering files from a bad hard drive.  I've found that if PhotoRec can read the hard drive (which it always has as long as the drive spins), Puppy Linux can do so as well.  Thus, Puppy Linux is my favorite tool for copying files from a bad hard drive to a good drive.  It takes a long time, but it works well and even preserves filenames and directories.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 22:07:06 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 22:07:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Happy Unix Epoch Day!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1101251900580.31009@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1101251900580.31009@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikfO1CCxVHvrgBcnnkGN6R7uimzbSTq+-MsiQgY@mail.gmail.com>

The timing of this email adds to the comedic effect.

Are we to assume that the TCLUG list is back up?

-Erik

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess I'm a few minutes late. ?Sorry if you missed it...
>
> http://goo.gl/KrCM7
>
>
> In Bash:
>
> date -d "$(date -ud "1 Jan 1970 + 15000 days")"
>
> That should give the proper local time for this event.
>
> Even better (I wrote this, so I don't know if it's the best way to do it):
>
> (( for i in $(seq -w 0 40) ; do echo -ne "${i}000 days before 1 Jan 1970\t"
> ; \
> date -d "$(date -ud "1 Jan 1970 - ${i}000 days")" ; done ) | tac ; \
> for i in $(seq -w 40) ; do echo -ne "${i}000 days after 1 Jan 1970\t" ; \
> date -d "$(date -ud "1 Jan 1970 + ${i}000 days")" ; done ) | \
> perl -pe 's/^0/ / ; s/ 0000/ ? ?0/'
>
>
> I'm going to try to be there for May 11, 2060, but I doubt I'll make it (8
> days before my 102nd birthday).
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed Feb  2 23:13:12 2011
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 23:13:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you detect attempts to break into your system?
Message-ID: <20110202231312.877b7983.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I've heard that if you connect online through Windows without patches, you can expect someone to break into your system in a matter of minutes.  This is why you need a firewall, Linux (better), or both (best).

Is there a way to detect attempts to break into your system?  I'd like to see just how often somebody out there tries to break into my system and see how much more difficulty the hackers have as I take steps to improve security.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb  2 23:49:13 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 23:49:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Happy Unix Epoch Day!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikfO1CCxVHvrgBcnnkGN6R7uimzbSTq+-MsiQgY@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1101251900580.31009@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<AANLkTikfO1CCxVHvrgBcnnkGN6R7uimzbSTq+-MsiQgY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102022343420.13255@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, Erik Mitchell wrote:

> The timing of this email adds to the comedic effect.
>
> Are we to assume that the TCLUG list is back up?

Yes, it clearly is.  I had to resend that message because it was out of 
the queue days ago.  I used the "bounce" function of Alpine, so it kept 
the date stamp from when I first sent it, 8 days ago.  It was down for 12 
days, I think.  That's not terrible, I guess, because they are hosting us 
for free and they had some kind of major system failure.

It's good to be back.  I probably have a backlog of junk for you all to 
read.

Mike



> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm a few minutes late. ?Sorry if you missed it...
>>
>> http://goo.gl/KrCM7
>>
>>
>> In Bash:
>>
>> date -d "$(date -ud "1 Jan 1970 + 15000 days")"
>>
>> That should give the proper local time for this event.
>>
>> Even better (I wrote this, so I don't know if it's the best way to do it):
>>
>> (( for i in $(seq -w 0 40) ; do echo -ne "${i}000 days before 1 Jan 1970\t"
>> ; \
>> date -d "$(date -ud "1 Jan 1970 - ${i}000 days")" ; done ) | tac ; \
>> for i in $(seq -w 40) ; do echo -ne "${i}000 days after 1 Jan 1970\t" ; \
>> date -d "$(date -ud "1 Jan 1970 + ${i}000 days")" ; done ) | \
>> perl -pe 's/^0/ / ; s/ 0000/ ? ?0/'
>>
>>
>> I'm going to try to be there for May 11, 2060, but I doubt I'll make it 
>> (8 days before my 102nd birthday).

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 00:37:37 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 00:37:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you detect attempts to break into your
	system?
In-Reply-To: <20110202231312.877b7983.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20110202231312.877b7983.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikdw+-XT3GdFL4eqkO3M1ZnYWYuuA0sqxZ7g9kw@mail.gmail.com>

The best way to watch what's happening to a system is to have a listener
that sees everything the target sees with the NIC listening in promiscuous
mode.  Have a NID software suite analyzing the traffic and you'll be
surprise what you see.  You can run the NID on the host itself, but I think
it's better if the NID is itself not addressable.

I'm sure there are others on the list who can give more practical advice -
not to mention I think there was a presentation on Nagios at a recent
Penguins Ubound meeting.

-Rob


On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> I've heard that if you connect online through Windows without patches, you
> can expect someone to break into your system in a matter of minutes.  This
> is why you need a firewall, Linux (better), or both (best).
>
> Is there a way to detect attempts to break into your system?  I'd like to
> see just how often somebody out there tries to break into my system and see
> how much more difficulty the hackers have as I take steps to improve
> security.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110203/a70944ad/attachment.html>

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 06:27:51 2011
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 06:27:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you detect attempts to break into your
	system?
In-Reply-To: <20110202231312.877b7983.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20110202231312.877b7983.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <4D4A9F47.6090206@gmail.com>

/var/log/auth.log files (or auth.log in whichever log directory your 
distro uses). You can use log monitoring software to block hosts after 
they violate what you define as a dirty attempt(s) (something like 
denyhost is lightweight and easy to putts with). If you leave a service 
up long enough you'd be surprised how many people are out sniffing 
around (world wide). Secure shell brute force attacks are very common.

You typically won't know about plain sniffing without monitoring your 
actual cards like Rob said (Wireshark is a good tool for monitoring 
Ethernet devices live and it can be configured for historical archiving 
(probably not the best tool for that), and on the service scanning side 
Zenmap for finding what is up and accessible on a host).

Hope that helps,

*Jeremy MountainJohnson*
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com <mailto:jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com>


On 02/02/2011 11:13 PM, Jason Hsu wrote:
> I've heard that if you connect online through Windows without patches, you can expect someone to break into your system in a matter of minutes.  This is why you need a firewall, Linux (better), or both (best).
>
> Is there a way to detect attempts to break into your system?  I'd like to see just how often somebody out there tries to break into my system and see how much more difficulty the hackers have as I take steps to improve security.
>

From kcbnac at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 06:34:11 2011
From: kcbnac at gmail.com (Keith Bachman)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 06:34:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you detect attempts to break into your
	system?
In-Reply-To: <20110202231312.877b7983.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20110202231312.877b7983.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimg=6gT0auqfPHKsX2-J0fT2rzppX_BWZLCSjTD@mail.gmail.com>

I've heard that if you connect online through Windows without patches,
you can expect someone to break into your system in a matter of
minutes. ?This is why you need a firewall, Linux (better), or both
(best).

While not the ultimate solution; having a router (with NAT turned on)
and (basic) firewall capability generally will protect you.  If
setting up a fresh machine, if you can provide XP with SP3 BEFORE
connecting to the 'net you should be ok with the above as long as you
then run Windows Updates and install decent AV software.

Yes, this is a Lug list...but most of us support Windows in a (not so
insignificant) portion of our lives.  Having Service Packs handy (even
if not burned) can help immensely...

Also, with Vista you have to apply SP1 BEFORE you can apply SP2.  7's
SP1 is in RC status, IIRC...

From kris.browne at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 10:26:43 2011
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 10:26:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] camera system
In-Reply-To: <7642C7C7-50CA-4E08-9C01-78D5F93BCC26@lctn.org>
References: <7642C7C7-50CA-4E08-9C01-78D5F93BCC26@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=0vraM6zfJPxZ+Oa73RNf9=zd-42hqwUVopka+@mail.gmail.com>

Zoneminder is a great system, if configured and setup well.

If you're going to go with direct connected cameras, make sure to find a
vendor who has experience with Zoneminder and video4linux to make sure
there's some experience to work with.... v4l is a difficult thing to make
work with a single input, when dealing with 8-32 or more it can be a true
nightmare.

Bluecherry (http://store.bluecherry.net/) specializes in linux security
systems, they would be a good source for any hardware you need at the very
least.

If doing IP cameras, Zoneminder is just as good, but without the pain of
setting up v4l. This is in some ways a better option, but you'll need to
consider how much your network will be affected by the traffic involved, and
might want to consider setting up a different network just to handle the
camera traffic.

Kris Browne
kris.browne at gmail.com
612-353-6969
612-408-4431
http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

"the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have
to write." - Steve Jobs


On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:08, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> Is zoneminder a good solution for a camera security system, or is there a
> better solution?
>
> Would like to use IP or BNC/RCA camera, with DVR capability.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110203/144fca42/attachment-0001.html>

From admin at lctn.org  Thu Feb  3 10:31:18 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 10:31:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] camera system
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=0vraM6zfJPxZ+Oa73RNf9=zd-42hqwUVopka+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7642C7C7-50CA-4E08-9C01-78D5F93BCC26@lctn.org>
	<AANLkTi=0vraM6zfJPxZ+Oa73RNf9=zd-42hqwUVopka+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D4AD856.5020800@lctn.org>

  I am in the middle of testing it now. Just set it up with modetect, 
and it seems to be working well. Had a couple IP cams, and they are the 
ONE model zoneminder says will not work :) So far testing is via a 
simple capture card with two interfaces. Looks good, and a real plus for 
me is the Zoneminder app for my IPod.



On 02/03/2011 10:26 AM, Kris Browne wrote:
> Zoneminder is a great system, if configured and setup well.
>
> If you're going to go with direct connected cameras, make sure to find 
> a vendor who has experience with Zoneminder and video4linux to make 
> sure there's some experience to work with.... v4l is a difficult thing 
> to make work with a single input, when dealing with 8-32 or more it 
> can be a true nightmare.
>
> Bluecherry (http://store.bluecherry.net/) specializes in linux 
> security systems, they would be a good source for any hardware you 
> need at the very least.
>
> If doing IP cameras, Zoneminder is just as good, but without the pain 
> of setting up v4l. This is in some ways a better option, but you'll 
> need to consider how much your network will be affected by the traffic 
> involved, and might want to consider setting up a different network 
> just to handle the camera traffic.
>
> Kris Browne
> kris.browne at gmail.com <mailto:kris.browne at gmail.com>
> 612-353-6969
> 612-408-4431
> http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne
>
> "the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't 
> have to write." - Steve Jobs
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:08, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org 
> <mailto:admin at lctn.org>> wrote:
>
>     Is zoneminder a good solution for a camera security system, or is
>     there a better solution?
>
>     Would like to use IP or BNC/RCA camera, with DVR capability.
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110203/da4f768d/attachment.html>

From admin at lctn.org  Thu Feb  3 11:26:25 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 11:26:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
Message-ID: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org>

  I am getting ready for a project that we will implement wireless 
authentication via freeradius against Active Directory. I am going 
through a doc right now that instructs how to install kerberos with 
samba, so I can join my linux box to the domain. Has anyone done this 
with the aid of an easy to follow doc? I need to find some instructions 
that provide a little more clarity on the subject.


Raymond

From auditodd at comcast.net  Thu Feb  3 11:50:11 2011
From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:50:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you detect attempts to break into
	your	system?
In-Reply-To: <1368589986.387168.1296755352375.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1160699697.387227.1296755411942.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

RE: Window XP
It's even better if you integrate SP3 into your install media (cdrom).
There are a lot of tutorials out on the web on how to do it.
I have an ISO right now with SP3 integrated in, but it's XP Pro.
I couldn't figure out how to get it to work with XP Home.
Another piece of advice for Windows (XP, 7, whatever) is to simply use Microsoft Security Essentials for anti-virus protection. In all the tests I've read, it performs as good as most of the 'pay-as-you-go' software.

I use MSE and SpywareBlaster on my Windows machines.

----------
Todd Young

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Bachman" <kcbnac at gmail.com>
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2011 6:34:11 AM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] How do you detect attempts to break into your	system?

I've heard that if you connect online through Windows without patches,
you can expect someone to break into your system in a matter of
minutes. ?This is why you need a firewall, Linux (better), or both
(best).

While not the ultimate solution; having a router (with NAT turned on)
and (basic) firewall capability generally will protect you.  If
setting up a fresh machine, if you can provide XP with SP3 BEFORE
connecting to the 'net you should be ok with the above as long as you
then run Windows Updates and install decent AV software.

Yes, this is a Lug list...but most of us support Windows in a (not so
insignificant) portion of our lives.  Having Service Packs handy (even
if not burned) can help immensely...

Also, with Vista you have to apply SP1 BEFORE you can apply SP2.  7's
SP1 is in RC status, IIRC...
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From BrianDG at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Feb  3 12:21:34 2011
From: BrianDG at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 12:21:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org>
References: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <4D4AF22E.80202@Goecke-Dolan.com>

Raymond,

Sorry I am not up on the windows stuff, but from what I understand the 
version of windows makes a big difference. I believe the most current 
version (Windows Server 2008 on ?) require you use Kerberos to join the 
domain.

I have connected Linux servers (not for wireless authentication) to 
domains via samba and winbind. But I did not have to used Kerberos. (I 
think that was windows server 2003 ? There again not sure of the version 
numbers.

I would be love to see how this is done, how much work it is. What is 
the documentation you are using ? (This would be a great talk at the 
Penguins Unbound Meeting !)

Are you planing on implementing 802.1x ? Is that the goal ?

Thanks.

==>brian.



Raymond Norton wrote:
>  I am getting ready for a project that we will implement wireless 
> authentication via freeradius against Active Directory. I am going 
> through a doc right now that instructs how to install kerberos with 
> samba, so I can join my linux box to the domain. Has anyone done this 
> with the aid of an easy to follow doc? I need to find some instructions 
> that provide a little more clarity on the subject.
> 
> 
> Raymond
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Feb  3 13:38:22 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 13:38:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <4D4AF22E.80202@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org> <4D4AF22E.80202@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <4D4B042E.70200@lctn.org>

  I will post what I learn. Hammering it our right now. The project is 
to setup wireless authentication at a school district against AD.



On 02/03/2011 12:21 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:
> Raymond,
>
> Sorry I am not up on the windows stuff, but from what I understand the 
> version of windows makes a big difference. I believe the most current 
> version (Windows Server 2008 on ?) require you use Kerberos to join 
> the domain.
>
> I have connected Linux servers (not for wireless authentication) to 
> domains via samba and winbind. But I did not have to used Kerberos. (I 
> think that was windows server 2003 ? There again not sure of the 
> version numbers.
>
> I would be love to see how this is done, how much work it is. What is 
> the documentation you are using ? (This would be a great talk at the 
> Penguins Unbound Meeting !)
>
> Are you planing on implementing 802.1x ? Is that the goal ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ==>brian.
>
>
>
> Raymond Norton wrote:
>>  I am getting ready for a project that we will implement wireless 
>> authentication via freeradius against Active Directory. I am going 
>> through a doc right now that instructs how to install kerberos with 
>> samba, so I can join my linux box to the domain. Has anyone done this 
>> with the aid of an easy to follow doc? I need to find some 
>> instructions that provide a little more clarity on the subject.
>>
>>
>> Raymond
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From jbridger2 at cyberians.com  Thu Feb  3 13:43:20 2011
From: jbridger2 at cyberians.com (Jonah Bridger)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:43:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <4D4B042E.70200@lctn.org>
References: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org> <4D4AF22E.80202@Goecke-Dolan.com>
	<4D4B042E.70200@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <93F48C515DBA43DC868198291C491477@NEPTUNE>

I think they did that at a school I used to work for - Kennesaw State
University (www.kennesaw.edu)
You might want to ask Elektra Horn (I believe that is her name).
She is the director of IT over there.

Jonah

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:38 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] kerberos install

  I will post what I learn. Hammering it our right now. The project is 
to setup wireless authentication at a school district against AD.



On 02/03/2011 12:21 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:
> Raymond,
>
> Sorry I am not up on the windows stuff, but from what I understand the 
> version of windows makes a big difference. I believe the most current 
> version (Windows Server 2008 on ?) require you use Kerberos to join 
> the domain.
>
> I have connected Linux servers (not for wireless authentication) to 
> domains via samba and winbind. But I did not have to used Kerberos. (I 
> think that was windows server 2003 ? There again not sure of the 
> version numbers.
>
> I would be love to see how this is done, how much work it is. What is 
> the documentation you are using ? (This would be a great talk at the 
> Penguins Unbound Meeting !)
>
> Are you planing on implementing 802.1x ? Is that the goal ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ==>brian.
>
>
>
> Raymond Norton wrote:
>>  I am getting ready for a project that we will implement wireless 
>> authentication via freeradius against Active Directory. I am going 
>> through a doc right now that instructs how to install kerberos with 
>> samba, so I can join my linux box to the domain. Has anyone done this 
>> with the aid of an easy to follow doc? I need to find some 
>> instructions that provide a little more clarity on the subject.
>>
>>
>> Raymond
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Feb  3 14:01:26 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 14:01:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <93F48C515DBA43DC868198291C491477@NEPTUNE>
References: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org>
	<4D4AF22E.80202@Goecke-Dolan.com>	<4D4B042E.70200@lctn.org>
	<93F48C515DBA43DC868198291C491477@NEPTUNE>
Message-ID: <4D4B0996.7020406@lctn.org>

  Thank you

On 02/03/2011 01:43 PM, Jonah Bridger wrote:
> I think they did that at a school I used to work for - Kennesaw State
> University (www.kennesaw.edu)
> You might want to ask Elektra Horn (I believe that is her name).
> She is the director of IT over there.
>
> Jonah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Norton
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:38 PM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] kerberos install
>
>    I will post what I learn. Hammering it our right now. The project is
> to setup wireless authentication at a school district against AD.
>
>
>
> On 02/03/2011 12:21 PM, Brian Dolan-Goecke wrote:
>> Raymond,
>>
>> Sorry I am not up on the windows stuff, but from what I understand the
>> version of windows makes a big difference. I believe the most current
>> version (Windows Server 2008 on ?) require you use Kerberos to join
>> the domain.
>>
>> I have connected Linux servers (not for wireless authentication) to
>> domains via samba and winbind. But I did not have to used Kerberos. (I
>> think that was windows server 2003 ? There again not sure of the
>> version numbers.
>>
>> I would be love to see how this is done, how much work it is. What is
>> the documentation you are using ? (This would be a great talk at the
>> Penguins Unbound Meeting !)
>>
>> Are you planing on implementing 802.1x ? Is that the goal ?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> ==>brian.
>>
>>
>>
>> Raymond Norton wrote:
>>>   I am getting ready for a project that we will implement wireless
>>> authentication via freeradius against Active Directory. I am going
>>> through a doc right now that instructs how to install kerberos with
>>> samba, so I can join my linux box to the domain. Has anyone done this
>>> with the aid of an easy to follow doc? I need to find some
>>> instructions that provide a little more clarity on the subject.
>>>
>>>
>>> Raymond
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 14:49:41 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:49:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
Message-ID: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>

I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!

If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
you'll get answers.

Does anyone want to create an Eventbrite page or something so we can
try to get a tally on how many people are showing up?

-Erik

-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From florin at iucha.net  Thu Feb  3 15:01:40 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:01:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110203210139.GD32262@styx.iucha.org>

On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 02:49:41PM -0600, Erik Mitchell wrote:
> I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
> Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!
> 
> If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
> you'll get answers.
> 
> Does anyone want to create an Eventbrite page or something so we can
> try to get a tally on how many people are showing up?

Like this: http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink ?

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110203/a567c8a6/attachment.pgp>

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 15:06:56 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:06:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <20110203210139.GD32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110203210139.GD32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim_Yn7sL-=n65gO0qS81T0cV+B8GDG6GjqJZ-Jn@mail.gmail.com>

Exactly! Thanks Florin!

-Erik

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 02:49:41PM -0600, Erik Mitchell wrote:
>> I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
>> Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!
>>
>> If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
>> you'll get answers.
>>
>> Does anyone want to create an Eventbrite page or something so we can
>> try to get a tally on how many people are showing up?
>
> Like this: http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink ?
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> ? ? ?http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 18:20:08 2011
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 18:20:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D4B4638.7070004@gmail.com>

It's on my calendar- good work on hammering this together btw, thank you.

*Jeremy MountainJohnson*
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com <mailto:jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com>


On 02/03/2011 02:49 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote:
> I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
> Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!
>
> If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
> you'll get answers.
>
> Does anyone want to create an Eventbrite page or something so we can
> try to get a tally on how many people are showing up?
>
> -Erik
>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 21:55:38 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 21:55:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <4D4B4638.7070004@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D4B4638.7070004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinDALanCu=L=BqNngbnz=KwxYGGxVkNWjwtqAUa@mail.gmail.com>

This blog-post from a friend of mine seemed apropos.   And - I'd say we're
doing pretty well so far...

http://networkedblogs.com/dQTym

-Rob


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's on my calendar- good work on hammering this together btw, thank you.
>
> *Jeremy MountainJohnson*
> jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com <mailto:jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com>
>
>
>
> On 02/03/2011 02:49 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote:
>
>> I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
>> Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!
>>
>> If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
>> you'll get answers.
>>
>> Does anyone want to create an Eventbrite page or something so we can
>> try to get a tally on how many people are showing up?
>>
>> -Erik
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110203/305441b0/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb  3 22:12:41 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:12:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=VdpH6b4CY2a0obJ-6uy=CHP78oz1gt_0ANtEU@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to try to truck it on in from St. Cloud, pending wife approval.

-Rob

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
> Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!
>
> If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
> you'll get answers.
>
> Does anyone want to create an Eventbrite page or something so we can
> try to get a tally on how many people are showing up?
>
> -Erik
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> erik at ekmitchell.com
> http://ekmitchell.com/
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110203/20a63d03/attachment.html>

From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Fri Feb  4 13:37:22 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:37:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=VdpH6b4CY2a0obJ-6uy=CHP78oz1gt_0ANtEU@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=VdpH6b4CY2a0obJ-6uy=CHP78oz1gt_0ANtEU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinoLe5S=eXFFPEeB_h88FJxipKzd10tfkZWX_HK@mail.gmail.com>

>> I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
>> Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!
>>
>> If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
>> you'll get answers.
>>

I'll be there! I look forward to meeting everyone :)

-- 
Mark Katerberg

From jjensen at apache.org  Fri Feb  4 14:03:53 2011
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:03:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG Beer Meeting, next Tuesday at 7:00 pm
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinoLe5S=eXFFPEeB_h88FJxipKzd10tfkZWX_HK@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinGtG9j_u-VPHD9x77bFPpgmJe9x_a4UODFyOVd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=VdpH6b4CY2a0obJ-6uy=CHP78oz1gt_0ANtEU@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinoLe5S=eXFFPEeB_h88FJxipKzd10tfkZWX_HK@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=mEmgmehMJNre14pd_Z9eCMjgVZQFJdPJQWUi3@mail.gmail.com>

I have a conflict, but I think I can resolve it to partake in refreshments.  :-)


On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Mark Katerberg <mark.katerberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I've got it on my calendar, do you? Let's meet at the Roseville
>>> Buffalo Wild Wings and put some faces to names!
>>>
>>> If you have any questions, just reply to this email and I'm sure
>>> you'll get answers.
>>>
>
> I'll be there! I look forward to meeting everyone :)
>
> --
> Mark Katerberg
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Feb  4 18:48:22 2011
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 18:48:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] scripting screen questions
In-Reply-To: <4D498031.5000900@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <4D498031.5000900@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <4D4C9E56.40709@mtu.net>

On 02/02/2011 10:02 AM, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> Hi all, hoping someone has some experience scripting screen, the best
> powertool ever.  :)
>
> I have a little csh script I use to apply long running processes to
> various boxen - condensed for illustration:
>
> runit.sh:
> #!/bin/csh
>
> foreach lin (lin1 lin2 linfoo linbaz)
>   ssh $lin "$1"
> end
>
Try adding -t to the ssh command. You might need a pseudo-tty.


From sfertch at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 00:03:19 2011
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 00:03:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Items for sale
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=oZjXNF_gDsHqr9V7fkoQuJ=1juUci_+f=hSes@mail.gmail.com>

Classifieds section isn't working on TCLUG site, so posting here:

Cisco 678:  $10/bo

Linksys Wireless Access Point WAP54G:  $10/bo

Cisco Fast Hub 400:  Free (Works, fan is noisy though)

Cisco Catalyst 2900 XL:  $20/bo

Computer system - 4U Generic ATX rackmount case, 1GHz AMD Athlon, 768MB ram,
40GB HDD, CD-RW/DVD_ROM, 3 NICs, Modem, Video (Used as Smoothwall firewall
for a number of years) $40/bo

Cisco 877W:    $250/bo



I live in the NE part of the metro and work on the East Side.


Thanks.


-- 
-Shawn
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110206/393a5250/attachment.html>

From andyzib at gmail.com  Sun Feb  6 18:24:19 2011
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:24:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <4D4B0996.7020406@lctn.org>
References: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org> <4D4AF22E.80202@Goecke-Dolan.com>
	<4D4B042E.70200@lctn.org>
	<93F48C515DBA43DC868198291C491477@NEPTUNE>
	<4D4B0996.7020406@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinX1CAummzt3THT5TwpwbbbQtkrNR2WmhAWxZEo@mail.gmail.com>

It's really not hard, see the samba documentation.

http://samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/FastStart.html#id2555963

Basically install the kerberos packages for your distribution, run the
domain join command, test getent password <username>, make sure you
know the root password (just in case...) and edit nssswitch.conf and
the pam configuration.

Check the documentation for specifics.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com

From admin at lctn.org  Sun Feb  6 19:42:16 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 19:42:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <5938323.741297042757784.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
Message-ID: <3356124.761297042936944.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>

Well, right, it shouldn't be that hard, but... 

Maybe someone knows why this is occurring: 


./net.samba3 ads join -U Administrator -d LCTN.PRIV -S 10.10.10.23 
[2011/02/04 15:38:20, 0] lib/debug.c:449(debug_pars e_params) 
debug_parse_params: unrecognized debug class name or format [LCTN.PRIV] 
Enter Administrator's password: 
Failed to join domain: Invalid configuration ("workgroup" set to 'LCTN.PRIV', should be 'LCTN-DC'"realm" set to 'LCTN.PRIV //YOUR REALM', should be 'lctn.priv') and configuration modification was not requested 

The server name is LCTN-DC, but the domain is lctn.priv. Have tried listing domain in upper and lower case in krb5.conf ans smb.conf. 





----- "Andrew S. Zbikowski" wrote: 
It's really not hard, see the samba documentation. 

http://samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/FastStart.html#id2555963 

Basically install the kerberos packages for your distribution, run the 
domain join command, test getent password <username>, make sure you 
know the root password (just in case...) and edit nssswitch.conf and 
the pam configuration. 

Check the documentation for specifics. 

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us 
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com 
_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and 
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
believed to be clean. 



-- 
Raymond Norton 
LCTN 
Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110206/38b2e1e3/attachment.html>

From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Feb  7 09:09:54 2011
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:09:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <3356124.761297042936944.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
References: <5938323.741297042757784.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<3356124.761297042936944.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinLW3UR8sP=jwLvCbcaKQSQo2A+Dsve=G_Pgp0y@mail.gmail.com>

Set Samba's preferred AD server at the PDC emulator for the domain.
You can change this after joining the domain, but it seems to work
best when you point at the PDC emulator when joining. I'd also
recommend creating the computer object in AD using AD Users and
Computers before trying to join the Samba server to the domain. If
you're running a 2008 domain I think there is a setting that needs to
be changed on the AD side to allow Linux (and other Samba servers such
as Mac OSX) to join the domain, but I don't recall what that setting
is.

Double check your kerberos realm. Kerberos realm is everything
following the @ sign if you look at the User logon name field in AD
Users and Computers. You may want to try using an account other than
the default Administrator account.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com

From admin at lctn.org  Mon Feb  7 14:53:45 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 14:53:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinLW3UR8sP=jwLvCbcaKQSQo2A+Dsve=G_Pgp0y@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5938323.741297042757784.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>	<3356124.761297042936944.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<AANLkTinLW3UR8sP=jwLvCbcaKQSQo2A+Dsve=G_Pgp0y@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D505BD9.7000909@lctn.org>

Couldn't get things working on the box I was on. In my research I found 
likewise-open, installed and configured on my laptop and was able to 
join the domain. Just curious if there is a reason not to go that route?




On 02/07/2011 09:09 AM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote:
> Set Samba's preferred AD server at the PDC emulator for the domain.
> You can change this after joining the domain, but it seems to work
> best when you point at the PDC emulator when joining. I'd also
> recommend creating the computer object in AD using AD Users and
> Computers before trying to join the Samba server to the domain. If
> you're running a 2008 domain I think there is a setting that needs to
> be changed on the AD side to allow Linux (and other Samba servers such
> as Mac OSX) to join the domain, but I don't recall what that setting
> is.
>
> Double check your kerberos realm. Kerberos realm is everything
> following the @ sign if you look at the User logon name field in AD
> Users and Computers. You may want to try using an account other than
> the default Administrator account.
>
>
>    

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb  7 15:52:56 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 15:52:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ICANN Root DNSSEC KSK Ceremony
Message-ID: <1297115576.7335.8.camel@sysadmin3a>

Very nerdy but here is the live stream of the ceremony as it happens
now.
http://dns.icann.org/ksk/stream/

As of BIND 9.7 there is included DNSSEC automation functionality.
PowerDNS has a beta addon called PowerDNSSEC for automation as well.
There are a handful of other open source tools as well but I think most
people will likely use included functionality in the DNS servers or
third party commercial tools like Infoblox if they are already using
them. I've heard Windows 2008 R2 has support for DNSSEC management but
its all command line based and has no automation included.

I was at the DNSSEC presentation by Cricket Liu the week before last.
This is a very important but non-trivial addon to DNS. Is anyone heavily
using DNSSEC? Any experiences or comments? I recently started using the
DNSSEC Validator for Firefox.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110207/af550864/attachment.html>

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Feb  7 17:48:35 2011
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 17:48:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <4D505BD9.7000909@lctn.org>
References: <5938323.741297042757784.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<3356124.761297042936944.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<AANLkTinLW3UR8sP=jwLvCbcaKQSQo2A+Dsve=G_Pgp0y@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D505BD9.7000909@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikO2xCz6Q_hm2dL8kcq80EUVRi4bz6Z5JQ5mpBn@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> Couldn't get things working on the box I was on. In my research I found
> likewise-open, installed and configured on my laptop and was able to join
> the domain. Just curious if there is a reason not to go that route?

Last summer I completed a large project at $WORK, getting all of our
linux hosts to use AD for authentication and authorization. I
evaluated Likewise, but (for reasons stated below) chose to go with a
"standard" LDAP/Kerberos setup.

Likewise is a decent solution for simple AD domains, but if you do any
amount of automation in your AD environment, it's a disaster. Likewise
creates a bunch of hidden LDAP objects which is uses to store its data
instead of using the standard RFC2307 attributes on the target
objects. This makes it a *lot* more complicated to maintain
programmatically than it needs to be.

I'd be glad to share more information with you on this if you'd like,
either on or off-list.

-Erik

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb  7 18:43:25 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 00:43:25 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikO2xCz6Q_hm2dL8kcq80EUVRi4bz6Z5JQ5mpBn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5938323.741297042757784.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org><3356124.761297042936944.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org><AANLkTinLW3UR8sP=jwLvCbcaKQSQo2A+Dsve=G_Pgp0y@mail.gmail.com><4D505BD9.7000909@lctn.org><AANLkTikO2xCz6Q_hm2dL8kcq80EUVRi4bz6Z5JQ5mpBn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <340077060-1297125806-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1953956189-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Anyone use centrify for this kind of thing?

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 17:48:35 
To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] kerberos install

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> Couldn't get things working on the box I was on. In my research I found
> likewise-open, installed and configured on my laptop and was able to join
> the domain. Just curious if there is a reason not to go that route?

Last summer I completed a large project at $WORK, getting all of our
linux hosts to use AD for authentication and authorization. I
evaluated Likewise, but (for reasons stated below) chose to go with a
"standard" LDAP/Kerberos setup.

Likewise is a decent solution for simple AD domains, but if you do any
amount of automation in your AD environment, it's a disaster. Likewise
creates a bunch of hidden LDAP objects which is uses to store its data
instead of using the standard RFC2307 attributes on the target
objects. This makes it a *lot* more complicated to maintain
programmatically than it needs to be.

I'd be glad to share more information with you on this if you'd like,
either on or off-list.

-Erik
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From admin at lctn.org  Tue Feb  8 08:11:40 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 08:11:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] listserv with sms feature
Message-ID: <4D514F1C.6060204@lctn.org>

  I am out of the loop on listserv features. I am looking for listserv 
solution that is easy to set up which allows  users to subscribe to and 
receive messages via email or sms. Does Mailman, or any others provide 
this function?

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 09:35:52 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:35:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>

All,
Just a reminder, a small group of us will be meeting at the Buffalo
Wild Wings tonight at 7:00. I hope you'll join us! It should be a good
time.

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink

-Erik

-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From florin at iucha.net  Tue Feb  8 09:46:58 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:46:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110208154657.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 09:35:52AM -0600, Erik Mitchell wrote:
> Just a reminder, a small group of us will be meeting at the Buffalo
> Wild Wings tonight at 7:00. I hope you'll join us! It should be a good
> time.
> 
> http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink

I'll try to be there 5-10 minutes early and set up the plush Emperor
Penguin as a rallying point.  (Sorry, I have no plush Tux.)

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/285804ca/attachment.pgp>

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 10:29:37 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:29:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <20110208154657.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110208154657.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=6rnrWRH4yxCVmyC_jWfZFu1H4gsbO9PDKinzZ@mail.gmail.com>

How long is everyone planning on staying? I got stuck covering a shift last
minute. :(

On Feb 8, 2011 9:47 AM, "Florin Iucha" <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 09:35:52AM -0600, Erik Mitchell wrote:
> Just a reminder, a small group of u...
I'll try to be there 5-10 minutes early and set up the plush Emperor
Penguin as a rallying point.  (Sorry, I have no plush Tux.)

Cheers,
florin

--
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
     http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/e6fe06e8/attachment-0001.html>

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 10:38:10 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:38:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=6rnrWRH4yxCVmyC_jWfZFu1H4gsbO9PDKinzZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110208154657.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTi=6rnrWRH4yxCVmyC_jWfZFu1H4gsbO9PDKinzZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikuV69oHvqyW+crq-e+AN1g66z+Q7SjVd_=8bQF@mail.gmail.com>

I'll probably take off by 9:00.

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com> wrote:
> How long is everyone planning on staying? I got stuck covering a shift last
> minute. :(
>
> On Feb 8, 2011 9:47 AM, "Florin Iucha" <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 09:35:52AM -0600, Erik Mitchell wrote:
>> Just a reminder, a small group of u...
>
> I'll try to be there 5-10 minutes early and set up the plush Emperor
> Penguin as a rallying point. ?(Sorry, I have no plush Tux.)
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> ? ? ?http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From dolson at multitech.com  Tue Feb  8 10:41:08 2011
From: dolson at multitech.com (Doug Olson)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:41:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>

Which Wild Winds?

-----Original Message-----
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:36 AM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight

All,
Just a reminder, a small group of us will be meeting at the Buffalo
Wild Wings tonight at 7:00. I hope you'll join us! It should be a good
time.

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink

-Erik

-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 10:47:31 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:47:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>

Buffalo Wild Wings Grill & Bar
2100 Snelling Ave N
#80
Roseville, MN 55113

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Doug Olson <dolson at multitech.com> wrote:
> Which Wild Winds?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:36 AM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
>
> All,
> Just a reminder, a small group of us will be meeting at the Buffalo
> Wild Wings tonight at 7:00. I hope you'll join us! It should be a good
> time.
>
> http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink
>
> -Erik
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> erik at ekmitchell.com
> http://ekmitchell.com/
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From admin at lctn.org  Tue Feb  8 11:26:03 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:26:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] kerberos install
In-Reply-To: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org>
References: <4D4AE541.9080300@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <4D517CAB.1060001@lctn.org>

  I am making progress on configuring a Linux desktop to join the AD 
domain (without likewise-open). Samba "workgroup" needed to be set to 
the netbios name of the server (contrary to a lot of documentation out 
there). I am down to the domain name being listed in upper case rather 
than lower case, as it should be.

./net.samba3 ads join -U administrator -S bbserver.lctn.priv
Enter administrator's password:
Failed to join domain: Invalid configuration ("realm" set to 
'LCTN.PRIV    //YOUR REALM', should be 'lctn.priv') and configuration 
modification was not requested



According to the docs, the domain name should be set to uppercase in 
kerberos, which I thought was where the error message was getting its 
info, so I changed everything to lowercase, created a new realm and 
restarted kerberos, but it still comes back with the same error. I am 
assuming this is a samba problem and have seen some discussion on it, 
but not clear how to get the domain to come back in lowercase.

Anyone have the answer?





From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Tue Feb  8 12:43:55 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:43:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] psacct question
Message-ID: <4D518EEB.5000209@trutwins.homeip.net>

Delving into some auditing packages, psacct looks great, but wondering 
if there's a way to get more details about the results for the lastcomm 
command - for example:

lastcomm jtrutwin

rm         jtrutwin pts/1      0.00 secs Tue Feb  8 12:41
rm         jtrutwin pts/1      0.00 secs Tue Feb  8 12:41
grep       jtrutwin pts/1      0.00 secs Tue Feb  8 12:41

That's all fine and good but is there anything in psacct that tells you 
more details such as what was rm'd?

Josh

From ubusum at ymail.com  Tue Feb  8 13:38:47 2011
From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:38:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for
	controling devices.
Message-ID: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I'm thinking about a project that would control a dozen or even two dozen small devices in real time, possibly synchronized with a sound track. 1.5-4.5 volts either analog or discrete. I don't know what to call this device to Google-shop, but presume there is an active market? for laboratories or hobbyists. Is there any sort of interface available on the new generation hand-held devices for running this kind of controller?

I'd prefer a USB interface amenable to both laptop and desktops rather than a PCI-type interface. 

And, as long as I'm buying this, I might be interested in the ability to sample data with various sensors as well, discrete and analog, since that would make the device more robust for future projects not yet conceived. Cost is a big factor here so I'd consider re-purposing mass marketed devices designed for other uses (just can't think of any).

Does anyone have lab experience running these kinds of things? What programs are used? Where do you shop for this? Is there a hobbyist market for these? What kind of projects have you made or thought about making with these kinds of devices? 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
Bruce




      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/d3193504/attachment.html>

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 13:46:10 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:46:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for
 controling devices.
In-Reply-To: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTH7=0NhfYEvy8M-n=oLePjbki7eHa+c0GSsxS@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bruce,
I'm currently working on learning PIC MCU programming using Brian
Schmalz's USB Bit Whacker (UBW).

http://www.schmalzhaus.com/UBW/

You can buy them here:

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/762

The UBW has a USB interface for your pc, and receives its power from
the USB port. You can plug it into a breadboard to prototype your
project.

Lots of fun, and links to forums can be found through the links above
to connect with other people who are into this sort of thing.

I hope that helps!

-Erik

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Ubu Sumner <ubusum at ymail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about a project that would control a dozen or even two dozen small devices in real time, possibly synchronized with a sound track. 1.5-4.5 volts either analog or discrete. I don't know what to call this device to Google-shop, but presume there is an active market? for laboratories or hobbyists. Is there any sort of interface available on the new generation hand-held devices for running this kind of controller?
>
> I'd prefer a USB interface amenable to both laptop and desktops rather than a PCI-type interface.
>
> And, as long as I'm buying this, I might be interested in the ability to sample data with various sensors as well, discrete and analog, since that would make the device more robust for future projects not yet conceived. Cost is a big factor here so I'd consider re-purposing mass marketed devices designed for other uses (just can't think of any).
>
> Does anyone have lab experience running these kinds of things? What programs are used? Where do you shop for this? Is there a hobbyist market for these? What kind of projects have you made or thought about making with these kinds of devices?
>
> Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
> Bruce
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



--
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 14:00:36 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:00:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for
 controling devices.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikTH7=0NhfYEvy8M-n=oLePjbki7eHa+c0GSsxS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikTH7=0NhfYEvy8M-n=oLePjbki7eHa+c0GSsxS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikLKXiR6c5D-BRBBkpziBCOHVXz7Mq8kvvWvEUE@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not entirely sure exactly what type of device your looking for,
but if you are just looking for a way to interface the computer world
with the physical world micro-controllers are your ticket; My latest
project used an Atmel micro-controller, a usb-to-serial converter, a
circuit i built, relay, and a short program (one for the pc and one
for the controller naturally), ultimately just to control my
desk-light via a web page but there is a lot more potential. My next
project is going to be in my car :)

The Arduino scene worth checking out.

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
> I'm currently working on learning PIC MCU programming using Brian
> Schmalz's USB Bit Whacker (UBW).
>
> http://www.schmalzhaus.com/UBW/
>
> You can buy them here:
>
> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/762
>
> The UBW has a USB interface for your pc, and receives its power from
> the USB port. You can plug it into a breadboard to prototype your
> project.
>
> Lots of fun, and links to forums can be found through the links above
> to connect with other people who are into this sort of thing.
>
> I hope that helps!
>
> -Erik
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Ubu Sumner <ubusum at ymail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm thinking about a project that would control a dozen or even two dozen small devices in real time, possibly synchronized with a sound track. 1.5-4.5 volts either analog or discrete. I don't know what to call this device to Google-shop, but presume there is an active market? for laboratories or hobbyists. Is there any sort of interface available on the new generation hand-held devices for running this kind of controller?
>>
>> I'd prefer a USB interface amenable to both laptop and desktops rather than a PCI-type interface.
>>
>> And, as long as I'm buying this, I might be interested in the ability to sample data with various sensors as well, discrete and analog, since that would make the device more robust for future projects not yet conceived. Cost is a big factor here so I'd consider re-purposing mass marketed devices designed for other uses (just can't think of any).
>>
>> Does anyone have lab experience running these kinds of things? What programs are used? Where do you shop for this? Is there a hobbyist market for these? What kind of projects have you made or thought about making with these kinds of devices?
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> erik at ekmitchell.com
> http://ekmitchell.com/
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From tclugl at whitleymott.net  Tue Feb  8 14:05:12 2011
From: tclugl at whitleymott.net (gregwm)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:05:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] midi kbd?
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=MhCU6O1zYRdxtDM-fN6rFwcYtGH4cUXYv=ALL@mail.gmail.com>

any advice on where to find a cheap working midi piano keyboard for my
kiddos?  whatever i find, any worries whether it will work with programs
like pianobooster <http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/>?  any other or
better programs to suggest?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/62dedb17/attachment.html>

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  8 14:35:19 2011
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:35:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for
	controling devices.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikLKXiR6c5D-BRBBkpziBCOHVXz7Mq8kvvWvEUE@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTikTH7=0NhfYEvy8M-n=oLePjbki7eHa+c0GSsxS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikLKXiR6c5D-BRBBkpziBCOHVXz7Mq8kvvWvEUE@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <930718.13541.qm@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Most of what your looking for is available at Robotics shops.  One of my 
favorite is sparkfun.com.  They have all kinds of interesting DIY electronics 
projects, including those that will connect your PC to the outside world.  My 
son is working on a Arduino project that ties a Cell Phone internet connection 
and several external sensors togeather.

Most of the Arduino "shields" are stackable and can be interfaced with just 
about anything.  




 --- 
Wayne Johnson,                         | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003                         | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis





________________________________
From: Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 2:00:36 PM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for 
controling devices.

I'm not entirely sure exactly what type of device your looking for,
but if you are just looking for a way to interface the computer world
with the physical world micro-controllers are your ticket; My latest
project used an Atmel micro-controller, a usb-to-serial converter, a
circuit i built, relay, and a short program (one for the pc and one
for the controller naturally), ultimately just to control my
desk-light via a web page but there is a lot more potential. My next
project is going to be in my car :)

The Arduino scene worth checking out.

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
> I'm currently working on learning PIC MCU programming using Brian
> Schmalz's USB Bit Whacker (UBW).
>
> http://www.schmalzhaus.com/UBW/
>
> You can buy them here:
>
> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/762
>
> The UBW has a USB interface for your pc, and receives its power from
> the USB port. You can plug it into a breadboard to prototype your
> project.
>
> Lots of fun, and links to forums can be found through the links above
> to connect with other people who are into this sort of thing.
>
> I hope that helps!
>
> -Erik
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Ubu Sumner <ubusum at ymail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm thinking about a project that would control a dozen or even two dozen small 
>>devices in real time, possibly synchronized with a sound track. 1.5-4.5 volts 
>>either analog or discrete. I don't know what to call this device to Google-shop, 
>>but presume there is an active market  for laboratories or hobbyists. Is there 
>>any sort of interface available on the new generation hand-held devices for 
>>running this kind of controller?
>>
>> I'd prefer a USB interface amenable to both laptop and desktops rather than a 
>>PCI-type interface.
>>
>> And, as long as I'm buying this, I might be interested in the ability to sample 
>>data with various sensors as well, discrete and analog, since that would make 
>>the device more robust for future projects not yet conceived. Cost is a big 
>>factor here so I'd consider re-purposing mass marketed devices designed for 
>>other uses (just can't think of any).
>>
>> Does anyone have lab experience running these kinds of things? What programs 
>>are used? Where do you shop for this? Is there a hobbyist market for these? What 
>>kind of projects have you made or thought about making with these kinds of 
>>devices?
>>
>> Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> erik at ekmitchell.com
> http://ekmitchell.com/
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/a640c687/attachment-0001.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 14:44:57 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:44:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
	<AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimE+xuzM=Tn055_J7wuFzb9Y4OYVn1ZG97-G-w7@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like I'll be able to make it. :)  I'm looking forward to meeting those
attending!

-Rob

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> Buffalo Wild Wings Grill & Bar
> 2100 Snelling Ave N
> #80
> Roseville, MN 55113
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Doug Olson <dolson at multitech.com> wrote:
> > Which Wild Winds?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:36 AM
> > To: TCLUG Mailing List
> > Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
> >
> > All,
> > Just a reminder, a small group of us will be meeting at the Buffalo
> > Wild Wings tonight at 7:00. I hope you'll join us! It should be a good
> > time.
> >
> > http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink
> >
> > -Erik
> >
> > --
> > Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> > erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> > erik at ekmitchell.com
> > http://ekmitchell.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> erik at ekmitchell.com
> http://ekmitchell.com/
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/77a4bf55/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 14:51:56 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:51:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimE+xuzM=Tn055_J7wuFzb9Y4OYVn1ZG97-G-w7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
	<AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimE+xuzM=Tn055_J7wuFzb9Y4OYVn1ZG97-G-w7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=T3_WYVdAJccKDHGedqNmtn+m6mYRnbZ=x5C2B@mail.gmail.com>

p.s. Do I really want to drop down from 694 on I35W and then catch 36E?
Or would I be better off staying on 694 to Snelling?  Any traffic-insider
tips
are appreciated.

-Rob


On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like I'll be able to make it. :)  I'm looking forward to meeting
> those attending!
>
> -Rob
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Buffalo Wild Wings Grill & Bar
>> 2100 Snelling Ave N
>> #80
>> Roseville, MN 55113
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Doug Olson <dolson at multitech.com> wrote:
>> > Which Wild Winds?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Erik Mitchell
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:36 AM
>> > To: TCLUG Mailing List
>> > Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
>> >
>> > All,
>> > Just a reminder, a small group of us will be meeting at the Buffalo
>> > Wild Wings tonight at 7:00. I hope you'll join us! It should be a good
>> > time.
>> >
>> > http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1281847039?ref=elink
>> >
>> > -Erik
>> >
>> > --
>> > Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
>> > erik.mitchell at gmail.com
>> > erik at ekmitchell.com
>> > http://ekmitchell.com/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
>> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
>> erik at ekmitchell.com
>> http://ekmitchell.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/32d9f9cf/attachment.html>

From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 14:57:05 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:57:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] bruce control
Message-ID: <AANLkTim=QhjByc5G5+kRkv0SXiJbYaNYAdQbwt24G2e9@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Bruce
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
jameco is the place to get your hardware.
I would suggest an arduino if you want to use java.
or a pic micro-controller if you like C.
I would suggest programming it so anyone with a smart phone or a computer
can run it.
,RJ
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/b7fad932/attachment.html>

From ubusum at ymail.com  Tue Feb  8 15:16:38 2011
From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:16:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for
	controling devices.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikTH7=0NhfYEvy8M-n=oLePjbki7eHa+c0GSsxS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <565228.49783.qm@web59402.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

UBW definitely looks affordable. Many links to start my research. Thanks everyone.

Any thoughts on using on board Bluetooth to export commands to each device (and thus avoiding a complicated wire harness)? Is this compact and affordable (and easy to do)? Where might one find Bluetooth receivers (either re-purposed or raw receivers)?



--- On Tue, 2/8/11, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for controling devices.
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 1:46 PM

Hi Bruce,
I'm currently working on learning PIC MCU programming using Brian
Schmalz's USB Bit Whacker (UBW).

http://www.schmalzhaus.com/UBW/

You can buy them here:

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/762



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/f152e3ab/attachment.html>

From florin at iucha.net  Tue Feb  8 15:39:39 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:39:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=T3_WYVdAJccKDHGedqNmtn+m6mYRnbZ=x5C2B@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
	<AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimE+xuzM=Tn055_J7wuFzb9Y4OYVn1ZG97-G-w7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=T3_WYVdAJccKDHGedqNmtn+m6mYRnbZ=x5C2B@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110208213938.GS32262@styx.iucha.org>

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 02:51:56PM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote:
> p.s. Do I really want to drop down from 694 on I35W and then catch 36E?
> Or would I be better off staying on 694 to Snelling?  Any traffic-insider
> tips are appreciated.

36 going east and Snelling/51 going north are parking lots between 3:00PM and
6:30PM.  By 7 it should clear up.  Snelling going south is OK.

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/706da5d8/attachment-0001.pgp>

From florin at iucha.net  Tue Feb  8 15:41:26 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:41:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions
	for	controling devices.
In-Reply-To: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20110208214126.GT32262@styx.iucha.org>

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 11:38:47AM -0800, Ubu Sumner wrote:
> I'm thinking about a project that would control a dozen or even two
> dozen small devices in real time, possibly synchronized with a sound
> track. 1.5-4.5 volts either analog or discrete. I don't know what to call
> this device to Google-shop, but presume there is an active market? for
> laboratories or hobbyists. Is there any sort of interface available on
> the new generation hand-held devices for running this kind of controller?
> 
> I'd prefer a USB interface amenable to both laptop and desktops rather
> than a PCI-type interface.
> 
> And, as long as I'm buying this, I might be interested in the ability
> to sample data with various sensors as well, discrete and analog,
> since that would make the device more robust for future projects not
> yet conceived. Cost is a big factor here so I'd consider re-purposing
> mass marketed devices designed for other uses (just can't think of any).
> 
> Does anyone have lab experience running these kinds of things? What
> programs are used? Where do you shop for this? Is there a hobbyist market
> for these? What kind of projects have you made or thought about making
> with these kinds of devices?

Bruce,

Check out http://www.phidgets.com/

florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/7614afb8/attachment.pgp>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Tue Feb  8 15:45:15 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:45:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <20110208213938.GS32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
	<AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimE+xuzM=Tn055_J7wuFzb9Y4OYVn1ZG97-G-w7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=T3_WYVdAJccKDHGedqNmtn+m6mYRnbZ=x5C2B@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110208213938.GS32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <F559FE2E-3498-4085-BC52-F4E972622071@me.com>

Seconded.

On Feb 8, 2011, at 3:39 PM, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 02:51:56PM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote:
>> p.s. Do I really want to drop down from 694 on I35W and then catch 36E?
>> Or would I be better off staying on 694 to Snelling?  Any traffic-insider
>> tips are appreciated.
> 
> 36 going east and Snelling/51 going north are parking lots between 3:00PM and
> 6:30PM.  By 7 it should clear up.  Snelling going south is OK.
> 
> florin
> 
> -- 
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From samael.anon at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 16:12:31 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 16:12:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] midi kbd?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=MhCU6O1zYRdxtDM-fN6rFwcYtGH4cUXYv=ALL@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=MhCU6O1zYRdxtDM-fN6rFwcYtGH4cUXYv=ALL@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimvG2v5=CxXjuGT=GMHauM-t5riC2yU=hOWciNq@mail.gmail.com>

i use a program for windows called electronic piano 2.5

http://www.pianoeletronico.com.br/files/Electronic_Piano_2.5.zip

works great   my daugher used it since she was about a year old
not sure about linux programs

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:05 PM, gregwm <tclugl at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> any advice on where to find a cheap working midi piano keyboard for my
> kiddos?  whatever i find, any worries whether it will work with programs
> like pianobooster <http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/>?  any other or
> better programs to suggest?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/e4e62ad3/attachment.html>

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 19:56:33 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 19:56:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <20110208213938.GS32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
	<AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimE+xuzM=Tn055_J7wuFzb9Y4OYVn1ZG97-G-w7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=T3_WYVdAJccKDHGedqNmtn+m6mYRnbZ=x5C2B@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110208213938.GS32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTindV9539TFv_XQTi8jFFmf40fsVdAkf-ZBs=E=R@mail.gmail.com>

Who's going to the meeting? I got a table I didn't see a penguin

On Feb 8, 2011 3:39 PM, "Florin Iucha" <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 02:51:56PM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote:
> p.s. Do I really want to drop down ...
36 going east and Snelling/51 going north are parking lots between 3:00PM
and
6:30PM.  By 7 it should clear up.  Snelling going south is OK.


florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/...

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/20f108c0/attachment.html>

From sraun at fireopal.org  Tue Feb  8 20:32:54 2011
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 20:32:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] listserv with sms feature
In-Reply-To: <4D514F1C.6060204@lctn.org>
References: <4D514F1C.6060204@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20110209023254.GD4280@fireopal.org>

On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 08:11:40AM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote:
>  I am out of the loop on listserv features. I am looking for listserv  
> solution that is easy to set up which allows  users to subscribe to and  
> receive messages via email or sms. Does Mailman, or any others provide  
> this function?

Don't most SMS providers have an e-mail <> SMS gateway?  With that,
you'd just subscribe using the e-mail address associated with the
device.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

From admin at lctn.org  Tue Feb  8 21:25:19 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 21:25:19 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] listserv with sms feature
In-Reply-To: <20110209023254.GD4280@fireopal.org>
Message-ID: <30156446.1121297221919980.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>

That is the route I went with. 



----- "Scott Raun" wrote: 
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 08:11:40AM -0600, Raymond Norton wrote: 
> I am out of the loop on listserv features. I am looking for listserv 
> solution that is easy to set up which allows users to subscribe to and 
> receive messages via email or sms. Does Mailman, or any others provide 
> this function? 

Don't most SMS providers have an e-mail <> SMS gateway? With that, 
you'd just subscribe using the e-mail address associated with the 
device. 

-- 
Scott Raun 
sraun at fireopal.org 
_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and 
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
believed to be clean. 



-- 
Raymond Norton 
LCTN 
Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/431079cd/attachment.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 22:10:25 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:10:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Beer Meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTindV9539TFv_XQTi8jFFmf40fsVdAkf-ZBs=E=R@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=gpd3Yvsv=roPDuPqPJK4Kpzo=mHyRNPKw7yFk@mail.gmail.com>
	<1CD05B980C94AC408B37C82BBABAA3E614B4D08B@mtsexchange.dc.multitech.prv>
	<AANLkTin1hKd1tKDn+vASyawAsX9tykVnQbN24WNj7BYX@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimE+xuzM=Tn055_J7wuFzb9Y4OYVn1ZG97-G-w7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=T3_WYVdAJccKDHGedqNmtn+m6mYRnbZ=x5C2B@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110208213938.GS32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTindV9539TFv_XQTi8jFFmf40fsVdAkf-ZBs=E=R@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinxxQiQ0mPdigfOFEaXoWQRn+DPY=grH2iiXetu@mail.gmail.com>

so sad, no work for 2 weeks then too much work when there finally is a
meeting...

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com>wrote:

> Who's going to the meeting? I got a table I didn't see a penguin
>
> On Feb 8, 2011 3:39 PM, "Florin Iucha" <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 02:51:56PM -0600, Robert Nesius wrote:
> > p.s. Do I really want to drop down ...
> 36 going east and Snelling/51 going north are parking lots between 3:00PM
> and
> 6:30PM.  By 7 it should clear up.  Snelling going south is OK.
>
>
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
> http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/...
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110208/3a1012ca/attachment-0001.html>

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Tue Feb  8 23:20:33 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 05:20:33 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Invitation to view Nathan Caza's Picasa Web Album -
	tclug
Message-ID: <002354867b26d33b0f049bd29f7d@google.com>

Picked one of the digiKam export plugins (KIPI-plugins actually). Had fun  
meeting everyone!

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=mastercactapus&target=ALBUM&id=5571548752387030609&authkey=Gv1sRgCMHiwISfpOTU3AE&invite=CJfag_8K&feat=email
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/e794cbb3/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: picasaweblogo-en_US.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 2868 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/e794cbb3/attachment.gif>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: email.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 7882 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/e794cbb3/attachment.jpg>

From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 00:17:40 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 00:17:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Huzzah! Beer Meet = success!
Message-ID: <AANLkTimtZiwUom50GrmkQ=YoR0OSMQoGiFU8xj2j5zu4@mail.gmail.com>

Beer Meet was a wild success.  Wings were consumed, beer was imbibed, and
glassware was shattered.

We also discussed a variety of topics - a sampling of which include:
software architecture, web frameworks, storage solutions, wireless mesh
networks, the now defunct(?) TC-Wireless list, Linux Distros, TCLUG FLAME
WARS, JBOSS, musical instruments we played (with an emphasis on Cello's),
how the Minnesota Symphonic Orchestra is regarded relative to other major
orchestras, class action lawsuits involving Target and Best Buy,
cryptographic tools, computer forensics and criminal investigations, desktop
virtualization, the pros and cons and pitfalls of outsourcing, the death(?)
of HP-UX, Itanium and Core 7i processors, solid state storage drives, and
some other conversations that happened out of my earshot.  Perhaps others
would be willing to fill in what I missed.

Thanks for organizing, Eric!  I'm looking forward to the next one!

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/a656fa71/attachment.html>

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 09:22:13 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 09:22:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] bruce control
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim=QhjByc5G5+kRkv0SXiJbYaNYAdQbwt24G2e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim=QhjByc5G5+kRkv0SXiJbYaNYAdQbwt24G2e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik9h7AAsYft5fea6570U7rzD4oi_cBbVePZ_9QH@mail.gmail.com>

Atmel has awesome tools in linux. I can also highly recommend jameco

On Feb 8, 2011 2:57 PM, "r j" <ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Bruce
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
jameco is the place to get your hardware.
I would suggest an arduino if you want to use java.
or a pic micro-controller if you like C.
I would suggest programming it so anyone with a smart phone or a computer
can run it.
,RJ




_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/d4f5e6ab/attachment-0001.html>

From sulrich at botwerks.org  Wed Feb  9 15:21:34 2011
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 15:21:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] interest in a local ISOC chapter?
Message-ID: <AANLkTikrEa5266m5=ZOmkagmqQNKac+YZ+zO21VX+v2b@mail.gmail.com>

all -

by way of testing the waters here.  there are active ISOC chapters in
a few cities around the country and we seem to be lacking in this
regard.  is there reasonable interest within this group for the
creation of a local ISOC chapter?

this was on the 2010 todo list and it got pushed into 2011.  NANOG
last week and a recent chat w/some folks from the COISOC group kind of
punted it back onto my priority list.

if there's interest i'd be happy to get the ball rolling and present
something at the next meeting, beer infused or otherwise.

-- 
steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*)

From crumley at fields.space.umn.edu  Wed Feb  9 16:12:59 2011
From: crumley at fields.space.umn.edu (Jim Crumley)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:12:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for hardware and software solutions for
 controling devices.
In-Reply-To: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <65771.83837.qm@web59410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44434.152.65.129.201.1297289579.squirrel@ham.space.umn.edu>

On Tue, February 8, 2011 1:38 pm, Ubu Sumner wrote:
> I'm thinking about a project that would control a dozen or even two dozen
> small devices in real time, possibly synchronized with a sound track.
> 1.5-4.5 volts either analog or discrete. I don't know what to call this
> device to Google-shop, but presume there is an active market? for
> laboratories or hobbyists. Is there any sort of interface available on the
> new generation hand-held devices for running this kind of controller?

Bruce,

I would also recommend looking at Arduino.

Or since you mention synchronizing with a sound track, you might want to
look into light sequencers. Having Christmas lights that synchronize with
music is big in some DYI circles, so you can find lots of nice example
projects of that sort online.

-- 
Jim Crumley                  |Twin Cities Linux Users Group Mailing List
(TCLUG)
Ruthless Debian Zealot       |http://www.mn-linux.org/
Never laugh at live dragons  |



From gsker at skerbitz.org  Wed Feb  9 17:45:45 2011
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 17:45:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] bruce control
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik9h7AAsYft5fea6570U7rzD4oi_cBbVePZ_9QH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim=QhjByc5G5+kRkv0SXiJbYaNYAdQbwt24G2e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik9h7AAsYft5fea6570U7rzD4oi_cBbVePZ_9QH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091741160.4113@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Nathan Caza wrote:
> Atmel has awesome tools in linux. I can also highly recommend jameco
> 
> On Feb 8, 2011 2:57 PM, "r j" <ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey Bruce
> http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
> jameco is the place to get your hardware.
> I would suggest an arduino if you want to use java.
> or a pic micro-controller if you like C.
> I would suggest programming it so anyone with a smart phone or a computer
> can run it.
> ,RJ

To clarify, you code for the arduino in C.
The java thing is just an IDE.
The undrpinnings are gcc-avr and avrdude.


-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 19:07:32 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:07:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] history -a bug in Bash
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091832580.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I'm using Bash on Ubuntu 9.10...

$ head -1 /etc/issue ; uname -a ; bash --version
Ubuntu 9.10 \n \l
Linux x1 2.6.31-22-generic #67-Ubuntu SMP Sat Oct 16 18:51:35 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
GNU bash, version 4.0.33(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

...and I'm noticing that "history -a file" does not do anything if I wrote 
previously with "history -w file".  I think this is a very serious bug 
that could cause loss of an important command history.

I see here that it has been fixed in bash 4.2 release candidate 2...

http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.bash.bug/browse_thread/thread/48152c5e8c35b743?pli=1

...but I'm still on 4.0.33 on my main box.  It gets worse.  Here are two 
other boxes that I use a lot:

Ubuntu 10.10
Linux x2 2.6.35-23-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Wed Nov 24 11:55:36 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

CentOS release 5.5 (Final)
Linux x3 2.6.18-194.11.4.el5 #1 SMP Tue Sep 21 05:04:09 EDT 2010 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
GNU bash, version 3.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu)
Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc.


How many years will pass before I get the bug fix?  With CentOS I'll 
probably die first.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 19:13:41 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:13:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] bash history: deleting multiple consecutive lines
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091912090.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

This is a little weird.  Look at your bash history like so:

history | less

Lines are numbered.  If you want to delete line number N from the history, 
you do this:

history -d N

That works perfectly.  Suppose you want to delete every line from line 
6685 to line 6694. That is a lot trickier, at first.  This fails with an 
error:

history -d 6685-6694

This only reads the first number and ignores the second one:

history -d 6685 6686

You might think that this would work, but you would be sorely mistaken:

for line in $(seq 6685 6694) ; do history -d $line ; done

The reason that fails is that when you delete line 6685, the line that 
used to be 6686 immediately becomes line 6685, so you end up deleting 
every other line, only deleting half of the ones you wanted to delete 
along with several other lines that you wanted to keep.

This is the trick:

for line in $(seq 6685 6694) ; do history -d 6685 ; done

You delete line 6685 every time because succeeding lines keep moving up to 
become line 6685.  It works.

If you know a better way to do this, please tell us.  Thanks.

Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 22:04:23 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:04:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] history -a bug in Bash
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091832580.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091832580.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin+oJz-OManNyJrZvwRXTTpp_AB33PPsAJPF8KV@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> ...and I'm noticing that "history -a file" does not do anything if I wrote
> previously with "history -w file".  I think this is a very serious bug that
> could cause loss of an important command history.
>
> I see here that it has been fixed in bash 4.2 release candidate 2...
>
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.bash.bug/browse_thread/thread/48152c5e8c35b743?pli=1
>
> ...but I'm still on 4.0.33 on my main box.  It gets worse.  Here are two
> other boxes that I use a lot:
>
>
> How many years will pass before I get the bug fix?  With CentOS I'll
> probably die first.
>
> Mike
>

Hi Mike,

bash is pretty easy to build.  I'm sure you could crank out a personal
version and set your shell to use it instead (or exec your personel version
during the login phase) in a blink.  I'd probably just symlink to my
personal copy until the distro finally caught up and then replace the
symlink with the old binary before doing the update.  (That's me - there are
probably better ways to do it, like changing your default shell in
/etc/passwd)...

The whole point of Open Source was, in part, to facillitate collaboration
and to enable people to get bug fixes as soon as they are fixed.  If you
want to wait on a productized distro to eventually get around to it, that's
your business.  But it's not their fault for not jumping on an issue as as
quickly as you'd like.  Unless you're paying them and they've violated an
SLA you paid money for them to abide by.

wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/bash/<the_one_you_want>.tar.gz
tar -xzf bash*gz
cd bash*
./configure --prefix=$HOME/bin
make
make install

configure your system to get the new shell as you like.  Make sure you have
libreadline and its headers along with build-essentials (i.e., a working
compiler).   You might need a few other libs too but libreadline is the big
one for bash.

Also, I always do a ./configure --help and review flags for functionality I
need to flip at compile time before running the full configure.  And, of
course, it's never a bad idea to check the signatures of the files you
download before compiling them - especially if root is going to run your
shell.  :)

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/82f2b38b/attachment.html>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Feb  9 22:09:58 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:09:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] USB3
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092206260.15560@rooster.yaron.org>

Hey,

Anyone here using USB3 with Linux? I've tried two different motherboards 
and they both have the same issue (as in, it doesn't work and plugging 
anything into the USB3 ports makes khubd go insane). Before I start 
debugging this thing I just want to know if anyone has got this working at 
all.


-Yaron

--

From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 22:09:59 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:09:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] history -a bug in Bash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin+oJz-OManNyJrZvwRXTTpp_AB33PPsAJPF8KV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091832580.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<AANLkTin+oJz-OManNyJrZvwRXTTpp_AB33PPsAJPF8KV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin4fiq8=C+xa=FWr1X85uFz8EwaUZs5-MNw+gmU@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> ...and I'm noticing that "history -a file" does not do anything if I wrote
>> previously with "history -w file".  I think this is a very serious bug that
>> could cause loss of an important command history.
>>
>> I see here that it has been fixed in bash 4.2 release candidate 2...
>>
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.bash.bug/browse_thread/thread/48152c5e8c35b743?pli=1
>>
>> ...but I'm still on 4.0.33 on my main box.  It gets worse.  Here are two
>> other boxes that I use a lot:
>>
>>
>> How many years will pass before I get the bug fix?  With CentOS I'll
>> probably die first.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> bash is pretty easy to build.  I'm sure you could crank out a personal
> version and set your shell to use it instead (or exec your personel version
> during the login phase) in a blink.  I'd probably just symlink to my
> personal copy until the distro finally caught up and then replace the
> symlink with the old binary before doing the update.  (That's me - there are
> probably better ways to do it, like changing your default shell in
> /etc/passwd)...
>
> The whole point of Open Source was, in part, to facillitate collaboration
> and to enable people to get bug fixes as soon as they are fixed.  If you
> want to wait on a productized distro to eventually get around to it, that's
> your business.  But it's not their fault for not jumping on an issue as as
> quickly as you'd like.  Unless you're paying them and they've violated an
> SLA you paid money for them to abide by.
>
> wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/bash/<the_one_you_want>.tar.gz
> tar -xzf bash*gz
> cd bash*
> ./configure --prefix=$HOME/bin
> make
> make install
>
> configure your system to get the new shell as you like.  Make sure you have
> libreadline and its headers along with build-essentials (i.e., a working
> compiler).   You might need a few other libs too but libreadline is the big
> one for bash.
>
> Also, I always do a ./configure --help and review flags for functionality I
> need to flip at compile time before running the full configure.  And, of
> course, it's never a bad idea to check the signatures of the files you
> download before compiling them - especially if root is going to run your
> shell.  :)
>
> -Rob
>

Whoops.  I'm getting rusty.

wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/bash/gnu/the_one_you_want.tar.gz

Aaaaand.... bash 4.2 hasn't been released yet, and unlike a lot of projects
apparently the bash source is not fully visible per this interesting thread:


http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-bash at gnu.org/msg06351.html

Allegedly the bash source is visible on Savannah but I'm not sure how
current it is.  The point being... the bash owner hasn't even provided a
release for people to pull and deploy yet.  I think you're being a bit harsh
on CentOS. ;-)

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/6b6cb521/attachment-0001.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 22:11:03 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:11:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] history -a bug in Bash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin4fiq8=C+xa=FWr1X85uFz8EwaUZs5-MNw+gmU@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091832580.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<AANLkTin+oJz-OManNyJrZvwRXTTpp_AB33PPsAJPF8KV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin4fiq8=C+xa=FWr1X85uFz8EwaUZs5-MNw+gmU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=iBXuCM3NsK7MBNPs_mUD4G=WFcCQ-vXbc1Ryn@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ...and I'm noticing that "history -a file" does not do anything if I
>>> wrote previously with "history -w file".  I think this is a very serious bug
>>> that could cause loss of an important command history.
>>>
>>> I see here that it has been fixed in bash 4.2 release candidate 2...
>>>
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.bash.bug/browse_thread/thread/48152c5e8c35b743?pli=1
>>>
>>> ...but I'm still on 4.0.33 on my main box.  It gets worse.  Here are two
>>> other boxes that I use a lot:
>>>
>>>
>>> How many years will pass before I get the bug fix?  With CentOS I'll
>>> probably die first.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> bash is pretty easy to build.  I'm sure you could crank out a personal
>> version and set your shell to use it instead (or exec your personel version
>> during the login phase) in a blink.  I'd probably just symlink to my
>> personal copy until the distro finally caught up and then replace the
>> symlink with the old binary before doing the update.  (That's me - there are
>> probably better ways to do it, like changing your default shell in
>> /etc/passwd)...
>>
>> The whole point of Open Source was, in part, to facillitate collaboration
>> and to enable people to get bug fixes as soon as they are fixed.  If you
>> want to wait on a productized distro to eventually get around to it, that's
>> your business.  But it's not their fault for not jumping on an issue as as
>> quickly as you'd like.  Unless you're paying them and they've violated an
>> SLA you paid money for them to abide by.
>>
>> wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/bash/<the_one_you_want>.tar.gz
>> tar -xzf bash*gz
>> cd bash*
>> ./configure --prefix=$HOME/bin
>> make
>> make install
>>
>> configure your system to get the new shell as you like.  Make sure you
>> have libreadline and its headers along with build-essentials (i.e., a
>> working compiler).   You might need a few other libs too but libreadline is
>> the big one for bash.
>>
>> Also, I always do a ./configure --help and review flags for functionality
>> I need to flip at compile time before running the full configure.  And, of
>> course, it's never a bad idea to check the signatures of the files you
>> download before compiling them - especially if root is going to run your
>> shell.  :)
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
> Whoops.  I'm getting rusty.
>
> wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/bash/gnu/the_one_you_want.tar.gz
>
> Aaaaand.... bash 4.2 hasn't been released yet, and unlike a lot of projects
> apparently the bash source is not fully visible per this interesting thread:
>
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-bash at gnu.org/msg06351.html
>
> Allegedly the bash source is visible on Savannah but I'm not sure how
> current it is.  The point being... the bash owner hasn't even provided a
> release for people to pull and deploy yet.  I think you're being a bit harsh
> on CentOS. ;-)
>
> -Rob
>
>
*sigh* I have a cold.  I blame it.  The URL for all bash source tarballs:
ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/bash <ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/bash/>

I'm going to look for nyquil now.

_Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/f2e15b2b/attachment.html>

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 22:31:23 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:31:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] USB3
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092206260.15560@rooster.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092206260.15560@rooster.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik8xEocaCRd52o_cJoSZ0fVf4Jg_hGmp=OFO=Js@mail.gmail.com>

My laptop supposedly has USB 3 on it, but it doesn't look like my
kernel is recognizing it:

Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 13d3:5702 IMC Networks
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

The ports work fine... perhaps that's because they're not 3.0?

-Erik

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> Anyone here using USB3 with Linux? I've tried two different motherboards and
> they both have the same issue (as in, it doesn't work and plugging anything
> into the USB3 ports makes khubd go insane). Before I start debugging this
> thing I just want to know if anyone has got this working at all.
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 22:34:25 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:34:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] history -a bug in Bash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=iBXuCM3NsK7MBNPs_mUD4G=WFcCQ-vXbc1Ryn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102091832580.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<AANLkTin+oJz-OManNyJrZvwRXTTpp_AB33PPsAJPF8KV@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin4fiq8=C+xa=FWr1X85uFz8EwaUZs5-MNw+gmU@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=iBXuCM3NsK7MBNPs_mUD4G=WFcCQ-vXbc1Ryn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092233470.29839@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Thanks for the tips, Robert.  I might build 4.2, when it becomes 
available.

Mike

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 22:50:19 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 22:50:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Huzzah! Beer Meet = success!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimtZiwUom50GrmkQ=YoR0OSMQoGiFU8xj2j5zu4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimtZiwUom50GrmkQ=YoR0OSMQoGiFU8xj2j5zu4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimnFtAcfqJZ_=-6Yojg+vGROpUa5HhdqGGASjc8@mail.gmail.com>

nice summary.  ahh, the sound of broken glass in my mind as i envisioned a
night of fun

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:17 AM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

> Beer Meet was a wild success.  Wings were consumed, beer was imbibed, and
> glassware was shattered.
>
> We also discussed a variety of topics - a sampling of which include:
> software architecture, web frameworks, storage solutions, wireless mesh
> networks, the now defunct(?) TC-Wireless list, Linux Distros, TCLUG FLAME
> WARS, JBOSS, musical instruments we played (with an emphasis on Cello's),
> how the Minnesota Symphonic Orchestra is regarded relative to other major
> orchestras, class action lawsuits involving Target and Best Buy,
> cryptographic tools, computer forensics and criminal investigations, desktop
> virtualization, the pros and cons and pitfalls of outsourcing, the death(?)
> of HP-UX, Itanium and Core 7i processors, solid state storage drives, and
> some other conversations that happened out of my earshot.  Perhaps others
> would be willing to fill in what I missed.
>
> Thanks for organizing, Eric!  I'm looking forward to the next one!
>
> -Rob
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110209/8e7d0db0/attachment.html>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Feb  9 23:17:03 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 23:17:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] USB3
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik8xEocaCRd52o_cJoSZ0fVf4Jg_hGmp=OFO=Js@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092206260.15560@rooster.yaron.org>
	<AANLkTik8xEocaCRd52o_cJoSZ0fVf4Jg_hGmp=OFO=Js@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092315130.3473@localhost6.localdomain6>

Hmm. lsusb doesn't see it, but lspci shows:

02:00.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host Controller 
(rev 03)


When a device is plugged in it DOES see it as xhci, but it stalls and 
khubd starts panicing and dumping traces, and even then unplugged it keeps 
resetting the OTHER usb devices constantly.


On Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Erik Mitchell wrote:

> My laptop supposedly has USB 3 on it, but it doesn't look like my
> kernel is recognizing it:
>
> Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 13d3:5702 IMC Networks
> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
>
> The ports work fine... perhaps that's because they're not 3.0?
>
> -Erik
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> Anyone here using USB3 with Linux? I've tried two different motherboards and
>> they both have the same issue (as in, it doesn't work and plugging anything
>> into the USB3 ports makes khubd go insane). Before I start debugging this
>> thing I just want to know if anyone has got this working at all.
>>
>>
>> -Yaron
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> erik at ekmitchell.com
> http://ekmitchell.com/
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Wed Feb  9 23:23:44 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 23:23:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] USB3
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092315130.3473@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092206260.15560@rooster.yaron.org>
	<AANLkTik8xEocaCRd52o_cJoSZ0fVf4Jg_hGmp=OFO=Js@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092315130.3473@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiknqOnee9vwX_H0JWnWPzdzheG-mtChA6k-Co4F@mail.gmail.com>

Further investigation reveals that the US version of my laptop (Asus
1215N) does not have USB3. Bummer, I guess, but good to know. Sorry I
couldn't be more help!

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> Hmm. lsusb doesn't see it, but lspci shows:
>
> 02:00.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host Controller
> (rev 03)
>
>
> When a device is plugged in it DOES see it as xhci, but it stalls and khubd
> starts panicing and dumping traces, and even then unplugged it keeps
> resetting the OTHER usb devices constantly.
>
>
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Erik Mitchell wrote:
>
>> My laptop supposedly has USB 3 on it, but it doesn't look like my
>> kernel is recognizing it:
>>
>> Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 13d3:5702 IMC Networks
>> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
>>
>> The ports work fine... perhaps that's because they're not 3.0?
>>
>> -Erik
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> Anyone here using USB3 with Linux? I've tried two different motherboards
>>> and
>>> they both have the same issue (as in, it doesn't work and plugging
>>> anything
>>> into the USB3 ports makes khubd go insane). Before I start debugging this
>>> thing I just want to know if anyone has got this working at all.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Yaron
>>>
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
>> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
>> erik at ekmitchell.com
>> http://ekmitchell.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Feb 10 13:27:28 2011
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:27:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] USB3
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiknqOnee9vwX_H0JWnWPzdzheG-mtChA6k-Co4F@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092206260.15560@rooster.yaron.org>	<AANLkTik8xEocaCRd52o_cJoSZ0fVf4Jg_hGmp=OFO=Js@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102092315130.3473@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<AANLkTiknqOnee9vwX_H0JWnWPzdzheG-mtChA6k-Co4F@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D543C20.8080000@Goecke-Dolan.com>

It looks like my HP EliteBook 8540w has usb 3.0

45:00.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host 
Controller (rev 03)

I don't have any devices that are usb 3.0 though, so I haven't tried it.

I would be willing to try it if someone has a device. (Could try it at 
the next penguins unbound meeting, Feb. 26)

Here is the Kernel and distribution info on my laptop.

Linux briandolangoecke 2.6.35-25-generic #44-Ubuntu SMP Fri Jan 21 
17:40:44 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux

bdolango at briandolangoecke:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description:    Ubuntu 10.10
Release:        10.10
Codename:       maverick

Best of Luck to you.

==>brian.


On 02/09/2011 11:23 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote:
> Further investigation reveals that the US version of my laptop (Asus
> 1215N) does not have USB3. Bummer, I guess, but good to know. Sorry I
> couldn't be more help!
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Yaron<tclug at freakzilla.com>  wrote:
>> Hmm. lsusb doesn't see it, but lspci shows:
>>
>> 02:00.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host Controller
>> (rev 03)
>>
>>
>> When a device is plugged in it DOES see it as xhci, but it stalls and khubd
>> starts panicing and dumping traces, and even then unplugged it keeps
>> resetting the OTHER usb devices constantly.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Erik Mitchell wrote:
>>
>>> My laptop supposedly has USB 3 on it, but it doesn't look like my
>>> kernel is recognizing it:
>>>
>>> Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>>> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>>> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>>> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
>>> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 13d3:5702 IMC Networks
>>> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
>>>
>>> The ports work fine... perhaps that's because they're not 3.0?
>>>
>>> -Erik
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Yaron<tclug at freakzilla.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> Anyone here using USB3 with Linux? I've tried two different motherboards
>>>> and
>>>> they both have the same issue (as in, it doesn't work and plugging
>>>> anything
>>>> into the USB3 ports makes khubd go insane). Before I start debugging this
>>>> thing I just want to know if anyone has got this working at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Yaron
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
>>> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
>>> erik at ekmitchell.com
>>> http://ekmitchell.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> -Yaron
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>


From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 11 08:36:11 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:36:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
Message-ID: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>

  I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app 
or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low 
cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm 
guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.

Any ideas?

From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 10:47:31 2011
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:47:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTime0NwBCU-dpF5ZkVix9PDUrfrbUqy-sX7TS-78@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> ?I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app or
> web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low cost vpn
> solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm guessing it would
> need to work like gotomypc.

Many moons ago, I used to use Hamachi for this type of thing, and it
worked quite well. Back then they had a free version of their app, but
they've been acquired since then so I'm not sure what state things are
in. Additionally, I'm not sure if there's an IOS version of hamachi.
>From what I can see, IOS really only supports IPsec and PPTP for VPN.


-- 
Erik Anderson
http://andersonfam.org

From squack at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 13:12:44 2011
From: squack at gmail.com (William)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 13:12:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTime0NwBCU-dpF5ZkVix9PDUrfrbUqy-sX7TS-78@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<AANLkTime0NwBCU-dpF5ZkVix9PDUrfrbUqy-sX7TS-78@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimPv9jrZjV0RmdWgbcMK9BguCPWPzUxLsKtgCFw@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure if this will work for you but Team Viewer has an Ipod/Ipad app and
it is free. Also you can do VPN but have never used that part of it!

http://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/mobile.aspx





On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> >  I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app or
> > web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low cost
> vpn
> > solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm guessing it
> would
> > need to work like gotomypc.
>
> Many moons ago, I used to use Hamachi for this type of thing, and it
> worked quite well. Back then they had a free version of their app, but
> they've been acquired since then so I'm not sure what state things are
> in. Additionally, I'm not sure if there's an IOS version of hamachi.
> From what I can see, IOS really only supports IPsec and PPTP for VPN.
>
>
> --
> Erik Anderson
> http://andersonfam.org
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110211/b7a59411/attachment.html>

From mailinglists at soul-dev.com  Fri Feb 11 14:44:26 2011
From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:44:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>

On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>  I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
> or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
> cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
> guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
> 
> Any ideas?

How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
request and is 100% free.

My setup looks like

Server (Public IP/Port) <----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)

As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
21, or 53).

Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
server (or whatever reason).

Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.

Kind regards,

Mr. M.

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 11 14:57:39 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org> <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>
Message-ID: <4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org>

  To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself, 
but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet 
package with a public IP.



On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
> On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>>   I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
>> or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
>> cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
>> guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
>>
>> Any ideas?
> How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
> request and is 100% free.
>
> My setup looks like
>
> Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
>
> As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
> listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
> 21, or 53).
>
> Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
> server (or whatever reason).
>
> Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Mr. M.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Fri Feb 11 15:03:44 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:03:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org> <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>
	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>

What provider is not giving at least one public IP address to a
customer?

-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9)
Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4


To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself, 
but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet 
package with a public IP.



On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
> On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>>   I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
>> or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
>> cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
>> guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
>>
>> Any ideas?
> How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
> request and is 100% free.
>
> My setup looks like
>
> Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
>
> As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
> listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
> 21, or 53).
>
> Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
> server (or whatever reason).
>
> Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Mr. M.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110211/91db66dc/attachment.html>

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 11 15:05:57 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:05:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org>
	<1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org>

  In our area, you have to buy a business package and pay extra for a 
public IP. Home users only get nated connections.




On 02/11/2011 03:03 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> What provider is not giving at least one public IP address to a customer?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From*: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org 
> <mailto:Raymond%20Norton%20%3cadmin at lctn.org%3e>>
> *Reply-to*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> *To*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> <mailto:TCLUG%20Mailing%20List%20%3ctclug-list at mn-linux.org%3e>>
> *Subject*: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
> *Date*: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
> *Mailer*: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) 
> Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>
> To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself,
> but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet
> package with a public IP.
>
>
>
> On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
> >  On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
> >>    I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
> >>  or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
> >>  cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
> >>  guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
> >>
> >>  Any ideas?
> >  How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
> >  request and is 100% free.
> >
> >  My setup looks like
> >
> >  Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
> >
> >  As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
> >  listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
> >  21, or 53).
> >
> >  Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
> >  server (or whatever reason).
> >
> >  Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
> >
> >  Kind regards,
> >
> >  Mr. M.
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >  tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >  http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110211/43a5399c/attachment-0001.html>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Fri Feb 11 15:22:58 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:22:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org> <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>
	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org> <1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <1297459378.5349.62.camel@sysadmin3a>

Right, I was asking what provider is that.
I would think it must be a relatively uncommon practice. I am guessing
you're in an area with limited ISP choice?

-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:05:57 -0600
Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9)
Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4

In our area, you have to buy a business package and pay extra for a
public IP. Home users only get nated connections.




On 02/11/2011 03:03 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: 

> What provider is not giving at least one public IP address to a
> customer?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
> Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
> Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9)
> Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
> 
> 
> To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself, 
> but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet 
> package with a public IP.
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
> > On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
> >>   I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
> >> or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
> >> cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
> >> guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
> >>
> >> Any ideas?
> > How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
> > request and is 100% free.
> >
> > My setup looks like
> >
> > Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
> >
> > As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
> > listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
> > 21, or 53).
> >
> > Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
> > server (or whatever reason).
> >
> > Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Mr. M.
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and 
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
> believed to be clean. 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110211/08faae20/attachment.html>

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 11 15:27:31 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:27:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297459378.5349.62.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org>
	<1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>	<4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org>
	<1297459378.5349.62.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <4D55A9C3.4080502@lctn.org>

  nu-telecom



On 02/11/2011 03:22 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> Right, I was asking what provider is that.
> I would think it must be a relatively uncommon practice. I am guessing 
> you're in an area with limited ISP choice?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From*: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org 
> <mailto:Raymond%20Norton%20%3cadmin at lctn.org%3e>>
> *Reply-to*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> *To*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> <mailto:TCLUG%20Mailing%20List%20%3ctclug-list at mn-linux.org%3e>>
> *Subject*: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
> *Date*: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:05:57 -0600
> *Mailer*: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) 
> Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>
> In our area, you have to buy a business package and pay extra for a 
> public IP. Home users only get nated connections.
>
>
>
>
> On 02/11/2011 03:03 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
>> What provider is not giving at least one public IP address to a customer?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From*: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org 
>> <mailto:Raymond%20Norton%20%3cadmin at lctn.org%3e>>
>> *Reply-to*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> *To*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>> <mailto:TCLUG%20Mailing%20List%20%3ctclug-list at mn-linux.org%3e>>
>> *Subject*: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
>> *Date*: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
>> *Mailer*: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) 
>> Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>>
>> To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself,
>> but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet
>> package with a public IP.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>> >  On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>> >>    I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
>> >>  or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
>> >>  cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
>> >>  guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
>> >>
>> >>  Any ideas?
>> >  How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
>> >  request and is 100% free.
>> >
>> >  My setup looks like
>> >
>> >  Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
>> >
>> >  As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
>> >  listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
>> >  21, or 53).
>> >
>> >  Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
>> >  server (or whatever reason).
>> >
>> >  Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
>> >
>> >  Kind regards,
>> >
>> >  Mr. M.
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >  tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> >  http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> -- 
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by *MailScanner <http://www.mailscanner.info/>*, 
>> and is
>> believed to be clean.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110211/ecc44ace/attachment.html>

From marc at e-skinner.net  Fri Feb 11 15:12:04 2011
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:12:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org>	<1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <4D55A624.6070606@e-skinner.net>

Use openvpn - just have your friend initiate the openvpn tunnel.  That 
should work.


On 02/11/2011 03:05 PM, Raymond Norton wrote:
> In our area, you have to buy a business package and pay extra for a
> public IP. Home users only get nated connections.
>
>
>
>
> On 02/11/2011 03:03 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
>> What provider is not giving at least one public IP address to a customer?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From*: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org
>> <mailto:Raymond%20Norton%20%3cadmin at lctn.org%3e>>
>> *Reply-to*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> *To*: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> <mailto:TCLUG%20Mailing%20List%20%3ctclug-list at mn-linux.org%3e>>
>> *Subject*: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
>> *Date*: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
>> *Mailer*: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9)
>> Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>>
>> To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself,
>> but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet
>> package with a public IP.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>> >  On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>> >>    I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
>> >>  or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
>> >>  cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
>> >>  guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
>> >>
>> >>  Any ideas?
>> >  How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
>> >  request and is 100% free.
>> >
>> >  My setup looks like
>> >
>> >  Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
>> >
>> >  As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
>> >  listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
>> >  21, or 53).
>> >
>> >  Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
>> >  server (or whatever reason).
>> >
>> >  Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
>> >
>> >  Kind regards,
>> >
>> >  Mr. M.
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >  tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> >  http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org  <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 11 15:40:45 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:40:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D55A9C3.4080502@lctn.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org> <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>
	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org> <1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org> <1297459378.5349.62.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A9C3.4080502@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>

sounds like auld-telecom to me :)

On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Raymond Norton wrote:

> nu-telecom
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/11/2011 03:22 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
>> 
>> Right, I was asking what provider is that.
>> I would think it must be a relatively uncommon practice. I am guessing you're in an area with limited ISP choice?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
>> Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
>> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:05:57 -0600
>> Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>> 
>> In our area, you have to buy a business package and pay extra for a public IP. Home users only get nated connections.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 02/11/2011 03:03 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: 
>>> What provider is not giving at least one public IP address to a customer?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
>>> Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
>>> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
>>> Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>>> 
>>> To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself, 
>>> but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet 
>>> package with a public IP.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>>> > On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>>> >>   I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod app
>>> >> or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or low
>>> >> cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
>>> >> guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
>>> >>
>>> >> Any ideas?
>>> > How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for your
>>> > request and is 100% free.
>>> >
>>> > My setup looks like
>>> >
>>> > Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
>>> >
>>> > As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
>>> > listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor 80,
>>> > 21, or 53).
>>> >
>>> > Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal web
>>> > server (or whatever reason).
>>> >
>>> > Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
>>> >
>>> > Kind regards,
>>> >
>>> > Mr. M.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and 
>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
>>> believed to be clean.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> -- 
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and 
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
>> believed to be clean.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110211/3c3b809e/attachment-0001.html>

From tlunde at gmail.com  Fri Feb 11 20:13:58 2011
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:13:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org> <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>
	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org> <1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org> <1297459378.5349.62.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A9C3.4080502@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>

I think that there is a confusion between a public address and a static one.
Dynamic DNS to the rescue?

Thomas
On Feb 11, 2011 3:41 PM, "Ryan Coleman" <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> sounds like auld-telecom to me :)
>
> On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>
>> nu-telecom
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/11/2011 03:22 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
>>>
>>> Right, I was asking what provider is that.
>>> I would think it must be a relatively uncommon practice. I am guessing
you're in an area with limited ISP choice?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
>>> Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
>>> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:05:57 -0600
>>> Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9)
Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>>>
>>> In our area, you have to buy a business package and pay extra for a
public IP. Home users only get nated connections.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/11/2011 03:03 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
>>>> What provider is not giving at least one public IP address to a
customer?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org>
>>>> Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
>>>> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:57:39 -0600
>>>> Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9)
Gecko/20100922 Thunderbird/3.1.4
>>>>
>>>> To clarify, neither end would have a public IP. I use openvpn myself,
>>>> but the friend would probably not be willing to pay for a Internet
>>>> package with a public IP.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/11/2011 02:44 PM, Mr. MailingLists wrote:
>>>> > On 2/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Norton wrote:
>>>> >> I want to setup zoneminder for a friend, so they can use the IPod
app
>>>> >> or web browser to access their camera feeds. Looking for a free or
low
>>>> >> cost vpn solution that does not require a public IP on one end. I'm
>>>> >> guessing it would need to work like gotomypc.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Any ideas?
>>>> > How about OpenVPN? Seems like it would fit the bill perfectly for
your
>>>> > request and is 100% free.
>>>> >
>>>> > My setup looks like
>>>> >
>>>> > Server (Public IP/Port)<----(Internet)---NAT GW->Client(Internal IP)
>>>> >
>>>> > As long as you can connect to the public IP and port that it is
>>>> > listening on (443 is usually not filtered by egress firewalls, nor
80,
>>>> > 21, or 53).
>>>> >
>>>> > Or, you could also look at SSH tunneling for accessing an internal
web
>>>> > server (or whatever reason).
>>>> >
>>>> > Let me know if you would like to know any more or need a hand.
>>>> >
>>>> > Kind regards,
>>>> >
>>>> > Mr. M.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>>> believed to be clean.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>> --
>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>> believed to be clean.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110211/35cd8f05/attachment.html>

From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Sat Feb 12 12:37:05 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:37:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] interest in a local ISOC chapter?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikrEa5266m5=ZOmkagmqQNKac+YZ+zO21VX+v2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikrEa5266m5=ZOmkagmqQNKac+YZ+zO21VX+v2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D56D351.5000108@gmail.com>

On 02/09/2011 03:21 PM, steve ulrich wrote:
> all -
> 
> by way of testing the waters here.  there are active ISOC chapters in
> a few cities around the country and we seem to be lacking in this
> regard.  is there reasonable interest within this group for the
> creation of a local ISOC chapter?
> 
I would definitely attend any meetings and would be happy to help out
with the small amount of time that I have sitting around.

> if there's interest i'd be happy to get the ball rolling and present
> something at the next meeting, beer infused or otherwise.
> 

When is the next meeting? I completely forgot about the last and feel
pretty bad about it.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 554 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110212/80be523e/attachment.pgp>

From andyzib at gmail.com  Sun Feb 13 08:36:14 2011
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 08:36:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org> <4D559FAA.6030300@soul-dev.com>
	<4D55A2C3.7070405@lctn.org> <1297458224.5349.53.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A4B5.6040501@lctn.org> <1297459378.5349.62.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D55A9C3.4080502@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim5e5VrSUZe9pPnKL8gTmYf0nm_R=UuMjPbZC0z@mail.gmail.com>

I've been using DynDNS.com for accessing computers on a dynamic IP for
years and it works great as long as you have a reliable update client
running somewhere. I've been hosting a website by throwing the DynDNS
entry into my static DNS for the domain as a CNAME.

-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com

From josh at tcbug.org  Mon Feb 14 10:12:44 2011
From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:12:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>

On Friday, February 11, 2011 08:13:58 pm T L wrote:
> I think that there is a confusion between a public address and a static
> one. Dynamic DNS to the rescue?
> 
> Thomas

Nope, that doesn't seem to be the confusion here.  His ISP has him behind NAT, 
so he doesn't have a public IP that can be connected to.

Take my situation:

firewall external IP address is assigned by my DSL router via DHCP as 
192.168.254.2

The DSL router gets a "public" IP of 192.168.254.254 from the DSLAM.

Something upstream does NAT. The IP that I see on the other end of my link is 
74.38.80.1.  Hitting a website like whatismyip.com gives me a random IP in 
74.38.80.0/24, but I can't connect back to that IP from a remote host, stuff 
just dies at whatever is doing NAT.


-- 
Thanks,

Josh Paetzel
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 488 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part.
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/ae255b94/attachment.pgp>

From admin at lctn.org  Mon Feb 14 10:17:38 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:17:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <4D5955A2.8040403@lctn.org>

  Found they had a change of policy and you can buy a static public IP, 
without having a business package. Might be the simple solution I am 
looking for.




On 02/14/2011 10:12 AM, Josh Paetzel wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2011 08:13:58 pm T L wrote:
>> I think that there is a confusion between a public address and a static
>> one. Dynamic DNS to the rescue?
>>
>> Thomas
> Nope, that doesn't seem to be the confusion here.  His ISP has him behind NAT,
> so he doesn't have a public IP that can be connected to.
>
> Take my situation:
>
> firewall external IP address is assigned by my DSL router via DHCP as
> 192.168.254.2
>
> The DSL router gets a "public" IP of 192.168.254.254 from the DSLAM.
>
> Something upstream does NAT. The IP that I see on the other end of my link is
> 74.38.80.1.  Hitting a website like whatismyip.com gives me a random IP in
> 74.38.80.0/24, but I can't connect back to that IP from a remote host, stuff
> just dies at whatever is doing NAT.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/0255147e/attachment.html>

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Mon Feb 14 10:18:56 2011
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:18:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <4D5955F0.6000905@beer.tclug.org>

On 02/14/2011 10:12 AM, Josh Paetzel wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2011 08:13:58 pm T L wrote:
>> I think that there is a confusion between a public address and a static
>> one. Dynamic DNS to the rescue?
>>
>> Thomas
> 
> Nope, that doesn't seem to be the confusion here.  His ISP has him behind NAT, 
> so he doesn't have a public IP that can be connected to.
> 
> Take my situation:
> 
> firewall external IP address is assigned by my DSL router via DHCP as 
> 192.168.254.2
> 
> The DSL router gets a "public" IP of 192.168.254.254 from the DSLAM.
> 
> Something upstream does NAT. The IP that I see on the other end of my link is 
> 74.38.80.1.  Hitting a website like whatismyip.com gives me a random IP in 
> 74.38.80.0/24, but I can't connect back to that IP from a remote host, stuff 
> just dies at whatever is doing NAT.

 So it's begun already in some markets.  Whee.  This is what we have to
look forward to if ISPs don't deploy IPv6 soon.  I'd like to think this
might be a cautionary tale, but I doubt providers will heed it.

     Jima

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 10:22:42 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:22:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
Message-ID: <1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>

Yep, this is why NAT is evil and bad in every way except for extending
the life of IPv4.

OpenSSH supports VPN tunneling similar to how OpenVPN works (and I don't
just mean standard port forwarding).
Here is a link discussing it
http://blog.rot13.org/2009/04/simple_network_to_network_vpn_with_openssh_and_tun_device.html

Related Man Page:
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=ssh&sektion=1#SSH-BASED
+VIRTUAL



-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Paetzel <josh at tcbug.org>
Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:12:44 -0600
Mailer: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.1-RELEASE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; )


On Friday, February 11, 2011 08:13:58 pm T L wrote:
> I think that there is a confusion between a public address and a static
> one. Dynamic DNS to the rescue?
> 
> Thomas

Nope, that doesn't seem to be the confusion here.  His ISP has him behind NAT, 
so he doesn't have a public IP that can be connected to.

Take my situation:

firewall external IP address is assigned by my DSL router via DHCP as 
192.168.254.2

The DSL router gets a "public" IP of 192.168.254.254 from the DSLAM.

Something upstream does NAT. The IP that I see on the other end of my link is 
74.38.80.1.  Hitting a website like whatismyip.com gives me a random IP in 
74.38.80.0/24, but I can't connect back to that IP from a remote host, stuff 
just dies at whatever is doing NAT.


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/ccae1bbd/attachment.html>

From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Mon Feb 14 10:35:07 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:35:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <4D5959BB.6060207@gmail.com>

On 02/14/2011 10:22 AM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> Yep, this is why NAT is evil and bad in every way except for extending
> the life of IPv4.

I completely disagree with your claim, although I agree that this
practice by ISPs is pretty bad. NAT is fantastic for keeping a closed
network (e.g. a home router) from interacting with all the baddies out
there. I love the control that NAT gives me for my own network.


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 554 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/1af28fda/attachment.pgp>

From florin at iucha.net  Mon Feb 14 10:36:07 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:36:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:22:42AM -0600, Justin Krejci wrote:
> Yep, this is why NAT is evil and bad in every way except for extending
> the life of IPv4.

It's not evil - it is more expensive for you and me.  Auntie Em don't
care one way or another.  Au contraire, NAT might protect her from
port scans and kiss of death packets (although indeed they have became
rarer these days).

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/86a52de6/attachment.pgp>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 10:45:39 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:45:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>

Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
without NAT.

It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.
I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
debatable as a plus for the overall picture.

-----Original Message-----
From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
Reply-to: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:36:07 -0600
Mailer: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17)


On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:22:42AM -0600, Justin Krejci wrote:
> Yep, this is why NAT is evil and bad in every way except for extending
> the life of IPv4.

It's not evil - it is more expensive for you and me.  Auntie Em don't
care one way or another.  Au contraire, NAT might protect her from
port scans and kiss of death packets (although indeed they have became
rarer these days).

Cheers,
florin

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/e2e68ea6/attachment-0001.html>

From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Mon Feb 14 10:50:17 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:50:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <4D595D49.3060408@gmail.com>

On 02/14/2011 10:45 AM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
> A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
> without NAT.
> 

Yup, you should have that too. NAT just prevents a non-technical user
from opening ports 53 and 22 to everyone by accident. User-functionality
vs. security trade off again.

> It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
> communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
> various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.
> I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
> debatable as a plus for the overall picture.
> 

NAT doesn't realistically extend it by more than a week on the small
scale it's been rolled out, so I agree it's a non-issue. I do agree that
not listing that you are receiving a NAT connection is pretty evil. The
user should be aware if they want to be, and there should definitely be
an option available for a non-NAT connection, but I do understand the
desire to provide NAT by default (see above).


P.S.
The top posting is getting a little annoying.


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 554 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/4af4ced1/attachment.pgp>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 11:05:58 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:05:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D595D49.3060408@gmail.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>  <4D595D49.3060408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1297703158.16847.30.camel@sysadmin3a>



On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 10:50 -0600, Mark Katerberg wrote:
> On 02/14/2011 10:45 AM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> > Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
> > A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
> > without NAT.
> > 
> 
> Yup, you should have that too. NAT just prevents a non-technical user
> from opening ports 53 and 22 to everyone by accident. User-functionality
> vs. security trade off again.

NAT does not prevent them from opening ports to everyone. I've seen this
happen and done it myself. "Port Forward" sometimes called "Virtual
Servers". This has nothing to do with NAT.

> 
> > It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
> > communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
> > various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.
> > I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
> > debatable as a plus for the overall picture.
> > 
> 
> NAT doesn't realistically extend it by more than a week on the small
> scale it's been rolled out, so I agree it's a non-issue. I do agree that
> not listing that you are receiving a NAT connection is pretty evil. The
> user should be aware if they want to be, and there should definitely be
> an option available for a non-NAT connection, but I do understand the
> desire to provide NAT by default (see above).

When I say extend the life of of IPv4, I mean its actual existence at
all where you can use one public IP and share it amongst 50 or more
clients vs using 50 or more public IP addresses. This has greatly
extended the life of IPv4.

> 
> 
> P.S.
> The top posting is getting a little annoying.
> 

Let's not start a battle here.


From florin at iucha.net  Mon Feb 14 11:17:04 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:17:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:45:39AM -0600, Justin Krejci wrote:
> Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
> A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
> without NAT.

If an attacker can't know your IP address, they can't connect to it.

> It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
> communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
> various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.

Facebook?  Google?  Flickr?  Netflix?

It is bad for *you* and *me*, but not for average Joe.  Average Joes
vastly outnumber us.  Unless we come up with a killer app that AJ
cares about and is broken by IPv4 NAT, then the ISPs will march
forward.  Eventually they will run out of money to buy routers
(because of the 64K ports per IPs) but that's next year, not this.

> I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
> debatable as a plus for the overall picture.

I do not maintain that NAT is beautiful for everybody all the time.
But 'evil' is a loaded term that should be reserved for special occasions.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/8cde70f3/attachment.pgp>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Mon Feb 14 11:17:34 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:17:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297703158.16847.30.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D595D49.3060408@gmail.com> <1297703158.16847.30.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <09655F0A-4D76-476E-BFD1-7874775A528C@me.com>


On Feb 14, 2011, at 11:05 AM, Justin Krejci wrote:

> 
> When I say extend the life of of IPv4, I mean its actual existence at
> all where you can use one public IP and share it amongst 50 or more
> clients vs using 50 or more public IP addresses. This has greatly
> extended the life of IPv4.
> 

Hear, hear!

>> 
>> 
>> P.S.
>> The top posting is getting a little annoying.
>> 
> 
> Let's not start a battle here.

Hear, hear! :-) [a little tongue-in-cheek as I have said that both top and bottom on the TCPHP list and got called on it... after 5+ years]


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 11:22:27 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:22:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297703158.16847.30.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>  <4D595D49.3060408@gmail.com>
	<1297703158.16847.30.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <1297704147.16847.39.camel@sysadmin3a>

added some clarification.

On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 11:05 -0600, Justin Krejci wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 10:50 -0600, Mark Katerberg wrote:
> > On 02/14/2011 10:45 AM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> > > Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
> > > A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
> > > without NAT.
> > > 
> > 
> > Yup, you should have that too. NAT just prevents a non-technical user
> > from opening ports 53 and 22 to everyone by accident. User-functionality
> > vs. security trade off again.
> 
> NAT does not prevent them from opening ports to everyone. I've seen this
> happen and done it myself. "Port Forward" sometimes called "Virtual
> Servers". This has nothing to do with NAT.

Let me re-phrase a bit for clarity. NAT does not make it unpossible to
allow packets in to your port 53, 22, etc. A firewall with default
inbound deny policy in place (there should not be any other kind) that
is stateful is really all you need. NAT just gets in the way of stuff
and is not the source of security or protection. As mentioned already,
its only (debatable) benefit is it prolongs the life of IPv4. There are
other drawbacks to NAT as well such as address overlap when dealing with
tunneling from one network to another that is using the same address
space because "its only local to me" is false. In these cases you have
to re-nat to yet another subnet that will not conflict (and continue to
ensure these address blocks are conflict free) unless you NAT back to
public IP address space in which case why use NAT in the first place?

NAT is such a headache.

> 
> > 
> > > It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
> > > communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
> > > various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.
> > > I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
> > > debatable as a plus for the overall picture.
> > > 
> > 
> > NAT doesn't realistically extend it by more than a week on the small
> > scale it's been rolled out, so I agree it's a non-issue. I do agree that
> > not listing that you are receiving a NAT connection is pretty evil. The
> > user should be aware if they want to be, and there should definitely be
> > an option available for a non-NAT connection, but I do understand the
> > desire to provide NAT by default (see above).
> 
> When I say extend the life of of IPv4, I mean its actual existence at
> all where you can use one public IP and share it amongst 50 or more
> clients vs using 50 or more public IP addresses. This has greatly
> extended the life of IPv4.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > P.S.
> > The top posting is getting a little annoying.
> > 
> 
> Let's not start a battle here.


From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Mon Feb 14 11:27:00 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:27:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4D5965E4.3060706@gmail.com>

On 02/14/2011 11:17 AM, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:45:39AM -0600, Justin Krejci wrote:
>> Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
>> A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
>> without NAT.
> 
> If an attacker can't know your IP address, they can't connect to it.
> 
>> It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
>> communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
>> various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.
> 
> Facebook?  Google?  Flickr?  Netflix?
> 
> It is bad for *you* and *me*, but not for average Joe.  Average Joes
> vastly outnumber us.  Unless we come up with a killer app that AJ
> cares about and is broken by IPv4 NAT, then the ISPs will march
> forward.  Eventually they will run out of money to buy routers
> (because of the 64K ports per IPs) but that's next year, not this.
> 
>> I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
>> debatable as a plus for the overall picture.
> 
> I do not maintain that NAT is beautiful for everybody all the time.
> But 'evil' is a loaded term that should be reserved for special occasions.
> 
+1 to all.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 554 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/91f4f086/attachment.pgp>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 12:11:33 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>
	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <1297707093.16847.89.camel@sysadmin3a>



On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 11:17 -0600, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:45:39AM -0600, Justin Krejci wrote:
> > Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
> > A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
> > without NAT.
> 
> If an attacker can't know your IP address, they can't connect to it.

If an attacker knows your IP address and you block access, they can't
connect to it.

> 
> > It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
> > communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
> > various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.
> 
> Facebook?  Google?  Flickr?  Netflix?

Websites only? How much cruft has been added to web browsers and webapps
to help identify individual users? How many extra software bugs? End
users are paying the price by having increased complexity all over the
place that affects businesses (particularly network operators like ISPs)
as NAT adds overhead to network devices and humans to maintain. The
venerable FTP and SIP don't like NAT. NAT is such a fundamental part of
so many things these days but has about zero benefit. What about the
requirement of having some third party broker connections between NAT'ed
hosts for the average lay person?

> 
> It is bad for *you* and *me*, but not for average Joe.  Average Joes
> vastly outnumber us.  Unless we come up with a killer app that AJ
> cares about and is broken by IPv4 NAT, then the ISPs will march
> forward.  Eventually they will run out of money to buy routers
> (because of the 64K ports per IPs) but that's next year, not this.

My point is not that nothing works with NAT, it is that it has added
unnecessary complexity and overhead for about zero gain. Developer code
overhead, administrative overhead/complexity, more QA requirements, etc.
Just because something can be "worked around" doesn't mean we should
have no concern that it is there at all. Should we not bother with the
fundamental flaws and just carry on because we have a work around in
place?

> 
> > I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
> > debatable as a plus for the overall picture.
> 
> I do not maintain that NAT is beautiful for everybody all the time.
> But 'evil' is a loaded term that should be reserved for special occasions.

How is NAT ever beautiful for anyone? I don't claim there is no place
for NAT but it is not beautiful and let's not confuse NAT with security.
Turn off NAT and your stateful deny-default policy firewall still blocks
all the same packets just as well.


From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Mon Feb 14 12:15:02 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:15:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297707093.16847.89.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297707093.16847.89.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <4D597126.70108@gmail.com>

On 02/14/2011 12:11 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> How is NAT ever beautiful for anyone? I don't claim there is no place
> for NAT but it is not beautiful and let's not confuse NAT with security.
> Turn off NAT and your stateful deny-default policy firewall still blocks
> all the same packets just as well.
> 

Security Now just had an episode discussing how NAT prevented companies
from charging on a per-computer basis for users' internet access. This
seems pretty good to me. I'd hate to have to pay for a separate
connection for every one of my computers because each would require a
new IP address. Routers made it an impossible problem for the ISPs.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 554 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/207e3bea/attachment.pgp>

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Mon Feb 14 12:34:18 2011
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:34:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4D5975AA.3010104@beer.tclug.org>

On 02/14/2011 11:17 AM, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:45:39AM -0600, Justin Krejci wrote:
>> Explain how NAT does this? NAT simply mangles the IP headers.
>> A stateful firewall can protect you from port scans and other baddies
>> without NAT.
> 
> If an attacker can't know your IP address, they can't connect to it.

 Is that a motive to postpone IPv6 deployment?  If so, see RFC 3041
(Privacy Extensions).  However, using security-by-obscurity as an
argument on this list is almost as pointless as Godwinning the thread... ;-)

>> It is bad because it has broken protocols, applications, and end-to-end
>> communications and caused much grief and likely loss of functionality in
>> various applications because of it, unseen loss of functionality.
> 
> Facebook?  Google?  Flickr?  Netflix?

 Actually, yes, possibly.  LSN/CGN (large-scale/carrier-grade NAT) has
the potential to wreak havoc on AJAX-happy implementations, simply due
to port exhaustion (as you later mentioned).  IIRC Google (particularly
Maps) and Facebook are pretty AJAX-heavy; I imagine the others might be.

>> I maintain NAT is evil. And even "extending the life of IPv4" is
>> debatable as a plus for the overall picture.
> 
> I do not maintain that NAT is beautiful for everybody all the time.
> But 'evil' is a loaded term that should be reserved for special occasions.

 I can agree with your position on the word "evil."  The word is tossed
around far too casually -- I'm guilty of that, too.

 The pro/anti NAT discussion has been played out many times before,
probably most frequently on the NANOG list.

     Jima

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Mon Feb 14 12:45:44 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:45:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Tracking menu usage in gnome
Message-ID: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>

Does anyone know if a log entry is created anywhere when a user launches 
an application from the gnome menu so I can gauge how much certain 
applications are used?  Yes I have to worry about launched from a 
terminal as well but many users don't know what a console is.

My google-fu isn't working for me today...

Josh

From nesius at gmail.com  Mon Feb 14 12:53:04 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:53:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Tracking menu usage in gnome
In-Reply-To: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=aEodcDNKSe7dUJ8uXQjKiGFUc5_r8_dyfM71e@mail.gmail.com>

Eventually that application must do an exec, so you could wrap that exec
with some logging - if you wanted to hack the source.

Or....even better, wrap all of your binaries that might be run from gnome
with a script that does some logging and then execs the real binaries.

Those approaches aren't guaranteed to give the same result.  Which approach
is best depends on the question you're really asking:
Who is running binary X and when are they doing it?
-vs-
Who is choosing these options from the GUI in gnome?

If you wrap the binaries, then it doesn't matter how the binaries are run -
you'll see the invocation.

-Rob

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net>wrote:

> Does anyone know if a log entry is created anywhere when a user launches an
> application from the gnome menu so I can gauge how much certain applications
> are used?  Yes I have to worry about launched from a terminal as well but
> many users don't know what a console is.
>
> My google-fu isn't working for me today...
>
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/69c4e2de/attachment.html>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 12:54:10 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:54:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Tracking menu usage in gnome
In-Reply-To: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1297709650.16847.104.camel@sysadmin3a>



On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 12:45 -0600, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> Does anyone know if a log entry is created anywhere when a user launches 
> an application from the gnome menu so I can gauge how much certain 
> applications are used?  Yes I have to worry about launched from a 
> terminal as well but many users don't know what a console is.
> 

I don't have any idea myself but perhaps you could watch running
processes and track the PIDs and users to identify when a new instance
has started. If there is no such tracking data already available you
could add a little wrapper around the programs to include some
accounting function like updating a record in a DB or writing a log or
something.


From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Mon Feb 14 13:07:21 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:07:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Tracking menu usage in gnome
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=aEodcDNKSe7dUJ8uXQjKiGFUc5_r8_dyfM71e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<AANLkTi=aEodcDNKSe7dUJ8uXQjKiGFUc5_r8_dyfM71e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D597D69.5060407@trutwins.homeip.net>


> Who is running binary X and when are they doing it?
> -vs-
> Who is choosing these options from the GUI in gnome?

While #1 would be nice, I'm more just after a count of the number of 
times an application is chosen from the gnome menus.  The guy before me 
took a kitchen-sink approach to our Fedora build and it needs to be 
pared down.  Wrapping all these menu options would be rough but I 
suppose could be done....   I also have psacct running now so I can see 
what processes are running, but you have to filter out a ton of stuff...

Josh

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 13:33:39 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:33:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D597126.70108@gmail.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297707093.16847.89.camel@sysadmin3a>  <4D597126.70108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1297712019.31957.1.camel@sysadmin3a>


On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 12:15 -0600, Mark Katerberg wrote: 
> On 02/14/2011 12:11 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> > How is NAT ever beautiful for anyone? I don't claim there is no place
> > for NAT but it is not beautiful and let's not confuse NAT with security.
> > Turn off NAT and your stateful deny-default policy firewall still blocks
> > all the same packets just as well.
> > 
> 
> Security Now just had an episode discussing how NAT prevented companies
> from charging on a per-computer basis for users' internet access. This
> seems pretty good to me. I'd hate to have to pay for a separate
> connection for every one of my computers because each would require a
> new IP address. Routers made it an impossible problem for the ISPs.
> 

I don't know if circumventing or quietly violating a company's EULA/AUP
with NAT is a good argument on why NAT is good. Without knowing the
details of the case referenced (a quick search on what Security Now
turned up a GRC archives page and I did not find "NAT" anywhere in the
shows list) I can only make conjecture. I would hate to have to pay for
each computer I connect to my ISP and if a company did that I would find
another who didn't. Vote with my feet.

Can you cite the show specifically or point out any relevant links or
sources to the case you reference? 


From mark.katerberg at gmail.com  Mon Feb 14 13:58:48 2011
From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (Mark Katerberg)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:58:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <1297712019.31957.1.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>	<1297707093.16847.89.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<4D597126.70108@gmail.com> <1297712019.31957.1.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <4D598978.100@gmail.com>

On 02/14/2011 01:33 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> 
> I don't know if circumventing or quietly violating a company's EULA/AUP
> with NAT is a good argument on why NAT is good. Without knowing the
> details of the case referenced (a quick search on what Security Now
> turned up a GRC archives page and I did not find "NAT" anywhere in the
> shows list) I can only make conjecture. I would hate to have to pay for
> each computer I connect to my ISP and if a company did that I would find
> another who didn't. Vote with my feet.

I don't think it violates anyone's EULA, it just made it impossible for
them to realistically have anything to gain with it. And as we've seen
by the near monopolistic control of these companies, it can often be
very difficult to vote with a dollar due to the massive startup costs
for these companies.

If there were a reasonably priced ISP giving out static IPs, I'd be
there in a second, but due to the cartel-like control, I haven't found one.

> 
> Can you cite the show specifically or point out any relevant links or
> sources to the case you reference? 
> 

Steve Gibson talks about it a little bit in Episode 285, but the
detailed description was from Episode 284 of Security Now. From the
transcript:

LEO:  Yeah, thinker.  And this, he said, in these days the ISPs wanted
to charge you for each user in the house.  And I do remember those days
where basically each one would have a static IP address, and you would
have to pay the full freight, or maybe a slightly discounted rate.  He
said, we were starting to create routers at the time.  Or it was his
suggestion to put NAT in.  And he said, I knew, but I didn't tell
anyone, that this would effectively make it impossible for ISPs to
charge per user.  They'd have to charge per household because of course
the NAT would hide all the additional users.  He said, I never mentioned
that feature.  I just said it'd be a good thing to put NAT in these routers.

STEVE:  And that's what connection sharing is, of course.

LEO:  Right.  And so he says, you can thank me for the fact that you are
paying what you're paying for your Internet access.  He had some other
very interesting things to say.  We decided to invite him in for a full
hour interview for our triangulation show because he's a fascinating
guy.  And what I like about him, yeah, he created history 40 years ago
with VisiCalc, but he's not sat on his laurels.  And he's doing
something very interesting right now, really about taking back the
Internet, that I thought was fascinating.  He said the Net Neutrality
conversation is misguided.  That's not what we need.  He said there's a
way to handle this.

STEVE:  The other thing, too, is that by putting NAT in all these
routers, not only were we preventing ISPs from charging per user, but we
did hugely slow down the depletion of the IPv4 address space.  Because,
you know, we've got, I mean, I'm sure probably all of our listeners have
many different machines behind their single IP that's out there, their
public IP.  And we always are talking about 192.168.x.x addresses, which
we're all sharing, but which are kept separate.



-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 554 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110214/c8a9066d/attachment.pgp>

From pcutler at gnome.org  Mon Feb 14 14:06:29 2011
From: pcutler at gnome.org (Paul Cutler)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:06:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Tracking menu usage in gnome
In-Reply-To: <4D597D69.5060407@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
	<AANLkTi=aEodcDNKSe7dUJ8uXQjKiGFUc5_r8_dyfM71e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D597D69.5060407@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikExS3uAJ7Wnjkn0TTgSS0kGHsTHbMh0mtbCjh8@mail.gmail.com>

You might want to reach out to Dave Richards[1], a GNOME developer,
who oversees a fairly large GNOME install for the city of Largo, FL. I
thought I remember him blogging something about similar a long time
ago.  Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Zeitgeist has functionality to do
something similar.

Paul

[1] http://davelargo.blogspot.com/

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote:
>
>> Who is running binary X and when are they doing it?
>> -vs-
>> Who is choosing these options from the GUI in gnome?
>
> While #1 would be nice, I'm more just after a count of the number of times
> an application is chosen from the gnome menus. ?The guy before me took a
> kitchen-sink approach to our Fedora build and it needs to be pared down.
> ?Wrapping all these menu options would be rough but I suppose could be
> done.... ? I also have psacct running now so I can see what processes are
> running, but you have to filter out a ton of stuff...
>
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Feb 14 12:30:27 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:30:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D597126.70108@gmail.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297707093.16847.89.camel@sysadmin3a>  <4D597126.70108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1297708227.16847.101.camel@sysadmin3a>



On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 12:15 -0600, Mark Katerberg wrote:
> On 02/14/2011 12:11 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> > How is NAT ever beautiful for anyone? I don't claim there is no place
> > for NAT but it is not beautiful and let's not confuse NAT with security.
> > Turn off NAT and your stateful deny-default policy firewall still blocks
> > all the same packets just as well.
> > 
> 
> Security Now just had an episode discussing how NAT prevented companies
> from charging on a per-computer basis for users' internet access. This
> seems pretty good to me. I'd hate to have to pay for a separate
> connection for every one of my computers because each would require a
> new IP address. Routers made it an impossible problem for the ISPs.
> 

I don't know if circumventing or quietly violating a company's EULA/AUP
with NAT is a good argument on why NAT is good. Without knowing the
details of the case referenced (a quick search on what Security Now
turned up a GRC archives page and I did not find "NAT" anywhere in the
shows list) I can only make conjecture. I would hate to have to pay for
each computer I connect to my ISP and if a company did that I would find
another who didn't. Vote with my feet.

Can you cite the show specifically or point out any relevant links or
sources to the case you reference?


From jeremy at lizakowski.com  Mon Feb 14 18:59:01 2011
From: jeremy at lizakowski.com (jeremy at lizakowski.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:59:01 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Tracking menu usage in gnome
In-Reply-To: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <4D597858.6040805@trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <435562544-1297731541-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1654519032-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>


Its a long shot, but the "last access" timestamp might identify unused apps.  

There's a good chance that atime is disabled, or rendered useless by grep, hence the long shot.

Jeremy

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:45:44 
To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] Tracking menu usage in gnome

Does anyone know if a log entry is created anywhere when a user launches 
an application from the gnome menu so I can gauge how much certain 
applications are used?  Yes I have to worry about launched from a 
terminal as well but many users don't know what a console is.

My google-fu isn't working for me today...

Josh
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Feb 15 09:51:19 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:51:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vpn solutions
In-Reply-To: <4D598978.100@gmail.com>
References: <4D55495B.6020206@lctn.org>
	<17051D3A-3258-4E49-ADDB-B707E6CC26BD@me.com>
	<AANLkTinp3UQkNkDaFLGeA-8Eg=NPun5RYCNPewQ1jTy2@mail.gmail.com>
	<201102141012.49989.josh@tcbug.org>	<1297700562.16847.14.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214163606.GQ32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297701939.16847.23.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<20110214171704.GR32262@styx.iucha.org>
	<1297707093.16847.89.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D597126.70108@gmail.com>
	<1297712019.31957.1.camel@sysadmin3a>  <4D598978.100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1297785079.31957.15.camel@sysadmin3a>

Perhaps NAT played a part in not charging per computer by the ISPs but I
would say they charged per public IP address which before NAT there
would have to be a public IP address assigned to each computer. So
you're effectively paying for each computer. We still have this today in
reality. A single public IP address in almost all cases costs less than
more than a single IP address for an otherwise identical service.

Additionally I do not believe that a true per-computer charge separate
from the IP addresses would have ever been a realistic or successful
model even without NAT and would have eventually failed if ISPs tried to
enforce it in any meaningful way. <joke> Would they have the Personal
Computer Police come by and make a sweep of your business. I can just
picture it, "This is the PCP, we know you're in there, please keep your
hands off your keyboards. Don't you dare touch that 'any' key or we will
be forced to take more aggressive action. Sir, there's a flood of people
running out the back carrying PCs, I think they're trying to hide the
number of computers they have." </joke>


On Mon, 2011-02-14 at 13:58 -0600, Mark Katerberg wrote:
> On 02/14/2011 01:33 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:
> > 
> > I don't know if circumventing or quietly violating a company's EULA/AUP
> > with NAT is a good argument on why NAT is good. Without knowing the
> > details of the case referenced (a quick search on what Security Now
> > turned up a GRC archives page and I did not find "NAT" anywhere in the
> > shows list) I can only make conjecture. I would hate to have to pay for
> > each computer I connect to my ISP and if a company did that I would find
> > another who didn't. Vote with my feet.
> 
> I don't think it violates anyone's EULA, it just made it impossible for
> them to realistically have anything to gain with it. And as we've seen
> by the near monopolistic control of these companies, it can often be
> very difficult to vote with a dollar due to the massive startup costs
> for these companies.
> 
> If there were a reasonably priced ISP giving out static IPs, I'd be
> there in a second, but due to the cartel-like control, I haven't found one.
> 
> > 
> > Can you cite the show specifically or point out any relevant links or
> > sources to the case you reference? 
> > 
> 
> Steve Gibson talks about it a little bit in Episode 285, but the
> detailed description was from Episode 284 of Security Now. From the
> transcript:
> 
> LEO:  Yeah, thinker.  And this, he said, in these days the ISPs wanted
> to charge you for each user in the house.  And I do remember those days
> where basically each one would have a static IP address, and you would
> have to pay the full freight, or maybe a slightly discounted rate.  He
> said, we were starting to create routers at the time.  Or it was his
> suggestion to put NAT in.  And he said, I knew, but I didn't tell
> anyone, that this would effectively make it impossible for ISPs to
> charge per user.  They'd have to charge per household because of course
> the NAT would hide all the additional users.  He said, I never mentioned
> that feature.  I just said it'd be a good thing to put NAT in these routers.
> 
> STEVE:  And that's what connection sharing is, of course.
> 
> LEO:  Right.  And so he says, you can thank me for the fact that you are
> paying what you're paying for your Internet access.  He had some other
> very interesting things to say.  We decided to invite him in for a full
> hour interview for our triangulation show because he's a fascinating
> guy.  And what I like about him, yeah, he created history 40 years ago
> with VisiCalc, but he's not sat on his laurels.  And he's doing
> something very interesting right now, really about taking back the
> Internet, that I thought was fascinating.  He said the Net Neutrality
> conversation is misguided.  That's not what we need.  He said there's a
> way to handle this.
> 
> STEVE:  The other thing, too, is that by putting NAT in all these
> routers, not only were we preventing ISPs from charging per user, but we
> did hugely slow down the depletion of the IPv4 address space.  Because,
> you know, we've got, I mean, I'm sure probably all of our listeners have
> many different machines behind their single IP that's out there, their
> public IP.  And we always are talking about 192.168.x.x addresses, which
> we're all sharing, but which are kept separate.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Tue Feb 15 11:17:52 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:17:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
Message-ID: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.mndor.state.mn.us/tp/webwmr.html

I need silverlight (of all things)???
doesn't seem right ><

From Eric at mixeduperic.com  Tue Feb 15 11:53:19 2011
From: Eric at mixeduperic.com (Eric Lovrien)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:53:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikCuqfY4Np_Y-qpFfKuA87a-XX=Hf9MxC8s1+i+@mail.gmail.com>

Have you looked at the Moonlight project? I have found it to work with
somethings.


http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight

http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/




<http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/>

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com>wrote:

> https://www.mndor.state.mn.us/tp/webwmr.html
>
> I need silverlight (of all things)???
> doesn't seem right ><
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110215/57d77f11/attachment.html>

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Tue Feb 15 11:55:20 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:55:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikCuqfY4Np_Y-qpFfKuA87a-XX=Hf9MxC8s1+i+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCuqfY4Np_Y-qpFfKuA87a-XX=Hf9MxC8s1+i+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikRVj6ZAGj7rTp=PBYs2NjG3eb9i70qi91nMQu5@mail.gmail.com>

yeah, I've used it before, haven't tried it here I'll see if it works;
I just don't like the idea of a govt. website requiring it..

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Eric Lovrien <Eric at mixeduperic.com> wrote:
> Have you looked at the Moonlight project? I have found it to work with
> somethings.
>
> http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
> http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.mndor.state.mn.us/tp/webwmr.html
>>
>> I need silverlight (of all things)???
>> doesn't seem right ><
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 15 12:09:26 2011
From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:09:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] moonlight
Message-ID: <AANLkTimX5_AjrV2jshQtTsuUZgfNqn2AGfDb8y-eAm5Q@mail.gmail.com>

I have looked at the moonlight project and found mono develop to be more
useful.
http://monodevelop.com/
The project was started by Novell
Developing cross platform is intriguing.
using c, c++, or C#.
The main target is C#.
I figure if your going to release an open source project you might as well
have it run on everything.
,RJ
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110215/1603d477/attachment.html>

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Tue Feb 15 16:39:19 2011
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:39:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikRVj6ZAGj7rTp=PBYs2NjG3eb9i70qi91nMQu5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCuqfY4Np_Y-qpFfKuA87a-XX=Hf9MxC8s1+i+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikRVj6ZAGj7rTp=PBYs2NjG3eb9i70qi91nMQu5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTins+RFmHUDkELt1n0qKDwScQyYNoVpe8sX3YDv1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com> wrote:
> yeah, I've used it before, haven't tried it here I'll see if it works;
> I just don't like the idea of a govt. website requiring it..

Keep that in mind around caucus time next year when my Open Formats in
Government platform resolution makes the rounds again.  ;)

 - Tony

From sraun at fireopal.org  Tue Feb 15 21:26:43 2011
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:26:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110216032643.GB32726@fireopal.org>

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:17:52AM -0600, Nathan Caza wrote:
> https://www.mndor.state.mn.us/tp/webwmr.html
> 
> I need silverlight (of all things)???
> doesn't seem right ><

When I clicked "No" on "Do you want to speed up...?", it took a while,
but I got a screen that asked for data to look up a refund.

So, it looks like it isn't _required_, just recommended.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

From gsker at skerbitz.org  Tue Feb 15 13:11:08 2011
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:11:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikCuqfY4Np_Y-qpFfKuA87a-XX=Hf9MxC8s1+i+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincdC5M5yRZtTLJ31Tw=8Ke17u2jwuqGcTpfWaN@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCuqfY4Np_Y-qpFfKuA87a-XX=Hf9MxC8s1+i+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102151258110.16984@localhost6.localdomain6>

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011, Eric Lovrien wrote:
> Have you looked at the Moonlight project? I have found it to work with somethings.?
> http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
> http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/
> 
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com> wrote:
>       https://www.mndor.state.mn.us/tp/webwmr.html
>
>       I need silverlight (of all things)???
>       doesn't seem right ><


It seems wront to me too, and mono is not better.  Write to the dept of revenue. 
We have to make them aware of who their customers are because it's not always 
that easy for them to to tell.  email:dorweb.comm at state.mn.us

You might remind them that iPads, iPhones and Android devices also can't get to 
their tax return status page.


-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us  Fri Feb 18 10:49:22 2011
From: SDowning at erdc.k12.mn.us (Scott Downing)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 10:49:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 64bit Servers
Message-ID: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E14F@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us>

I'm looking at upgrading our Ubuntu 8.04 LTS servers to 10.04 LTS, they're clusters of apache and mysql servers. I see now the Ubuntu website recommends 64bit but I'm unsure if going to 64bit now is a good idea. There's no GUI on the servers or anything that isn't needed, its all CLI and they need to run apache with apache2-mpm-itk virtual servers running php, ruby, and python. I also need NFS to be solid and our backup client (Avamar) to be supported. I'm checking on Avamar right now, that might be a deal breaker but how well does 32bit software run on the 64 bit systems? What's the current state of 64bit in linux? Should I try or is it not worth it yet?

-Scott
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110218/d2218ae1/attachment.html>

From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 18 13:30:04 2011
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:30:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTins+RFmHUDkELt1n0qKDwScQyYNoVpe8sX3YDv1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLIEIMDEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Tony Yarusso
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 4:39 PM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Nathan Caza
> <mastercactapus at gmail.com> wrote:
> > yeah, I've used it before, haven't tried it here I'll see if it works;
> > I just don't like the idea of a govt. website requiring it..
>
> Keep that in mind around caucus time next year when my Open Formats in
> Government platform resolution makes the rounds again.  ;)
>
>  - Tony

Tony, didn't MN adopt some degree of open format requirement a few years
ago?  Usual rationale includes a desire to have archives stable under
proprietary format changes, as well as a desire/requirement for multi-vendor
sourcing and avoiding sole-source Microsoft licensing contracts.

I thought the Microsoft proprietary *.docx and maybe others had been
forbidden for official use and submissions, as is the case in some state and
fed orgs elsewhere and in much of Europe.

Is there a location with statue of open format requirements around the
country?

A legal clerk recently told me that "the legal profession" has standardized
on *.docx.
This person doesn't seem alert enough to know more than her office practice,
let alone any state-wide standard.

A head admin in Dakota County legal stuff sez their practice is *.doc
whenever outside their org, but *.docx is OK internally.

My mother is on staff at the GWU Grad School of Law in DC and says they use
*.doc and not *.docx for the DC government community, but she doesn't know
about official standards.


RECOMMENDATION:  Make and supply a brief "How to" sheet for setting format
default in Word, etc!!  Most of the people (users especially) involved with
Microsoft stuff do not know that the *.doc option is a) always available,
and b) can and should be set as default.  Most have no idea how to choose or
to get it set as their default.

Footnotes could mention that there is no significaant new feature in Word
since 1997 Pro.  Changes are no more than piddly changes to doc storage
formatting (not actual document composition or structure) to make naive folk
believe they must pay for upgrades.  Earlier docs are completely compatible
with newer WORD versions, and can be edited, printed or just used with NO
extra work.  Another footnote could mention that Open Office if free and
does it all.

Use of ANY proprietary formats, web or other, should be outlawed for both
archive integrity and procurement economy reasons.



Chuck


From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 18 05:34:12 2011
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 05:34:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTins+RFmHUDkELt1n0qKDwScQyYNoVpe8sX3YDv1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEIMDEAA.cncole@earthlink.net>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Tony Yarusso
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 4:39 PM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] checking my refund status, found this
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Nathan Caza
> <mastercactapus at gmail.com> wrote:
> > yeah, I've used it before, haven't tried it here I'll see if it works;
> > I just don't like the idea of a govt. website requiring it..
>
> Keep that in mind around caucus time next year when my Open Formats in
> Government platform resolution makes the rounds again.  ;)
>
>  - Tony

Tony, didn't MN adopt some degree of open format requirement a few years
ago?  Usual rationale includes a desire to have archives stable under
proprietary format changes, as well as a desire/requirement for multi-vendor
sourcing and avoiding sole-source Microsoft licensing contracts.

I thought the Microsoft proprietary *.docx and maybe others had been
forbidden for official use and submissions, as is the case in some state and
fed orgs elsewhere and in much of Europe.

Is there a location with statue of open format requirements around the
country?

A legal clerk recently told me that "the legal profession" has standardized
on *.docx.
This person doesn't seem alert enough to know more than her office practice,
let alone any state-wide standard.

A head admin in Dakota County legal stuff sez their practice is *.doc
whenever outside their org, but *.docx is OK internally.

My mother is on staff at the GWU Grad School of Law in DC and says they use
*.doc and not *.docx for the DC government community, but she doesn't know
about official standards.


RECOMMENDATION:  Make and supply a brief "How to" sheet for setting format
default in Word, etc!!  Most of the people (users especially) involved with
Microsoft stuff do not know that the *.doc option is a) always available,
and b) can and should be set as default.  Most have no idea how to choose or
to get it set as their default.

Footnotes could mention that there is no significaant new feature in Word
since 1997 Pro.  Changes are no more than piddly changes to doc storage
formatting (not actual document composition or structure) to make naive folk
believe they must pay for upgrades.  Earlier docs are completely compatible
with newer WORD versions, and can be edited, printed or just used with NO
extra work.  Another footnote could mention that Open Office if free and
does it all.

Use of ANY proprietary formats, web or other, should be outlawed for both
archive integrity and procurement economy reasons.



Chuck


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Feb 18 16:30:09 2011
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:30:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] 64bit Servers
In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E14F@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us>
References: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E14F@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102181628150.17986@localhost6.localdomain6>

Um. Linux has been doing 64-bit for ages now. It's pretty much rock solid. 
I can't think of any reason why you'd run in 32-bit on 64-bt capable 
hardware unless you're going to be using 32-bit applications... which 
you're probably not going to do.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011, Scott Downing wrote:

> 
> I'm looking at upgrading our Ubuntu 8.04 LTS servers to 10.04 LTS, they're
> clusters of apache and mysql servers. I see now the Ubuntu website
> recommends 64bit but I'm unsure if going to 64bit now is a good idea.
> There's no GUI on the servers or anything that isn't needed, its all CLI and
> they need to run apache with apache2-mpm-itk virtual servers running php,
> ruby, and python. I also need NFS to be solid and our backup client (Avamar)
> to be supported. I'm checking on Avamar right now, that might be a deal
> breaker but how well does 32bit software run on the 64 bit systems? What's
> the current state of 64bit in linux? Should I try or is it not worth it yet?
> 
> -Scott
> 
> 
>


-Yaron

--

From florin at iucha.net  Fri Feb 18 17:34:19 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 17:34:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 64bit Servers
In-Reply-To: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E14F@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us>
References: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E14F@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us>
Message-ID: <20110218233419.GJ32262@styx.iucha.org>

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:49:22AM -0600, Scott Downing wrote:
> [snip] how well does 32bit software run on the 64 bit systems?

Very well, once you have the compat-32 libraries installed.

> What's the current state of 64bit in linux?

Solid and actually preferred due to additional space for stack and
heap randomization, use of the NX (no execute) bit for stack.  The
code size is larger, but you get to use 8 general purpose registers,
as well as get better HW acceleration for crypto or RAID.

Not to mention the ability to use more than 2/3/4 GB in a non-hackish
way.

> Should I try or is it not worth it yet?

It depends.  If the current servers are working, don't mess with them.
If you need to provision new ones, go for it.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110218/e7451133/attachment.pgp>

From jolexa at jolexa.net  Fri Feb 18 22:17:49 2011
From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa)
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:17:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 64bit Servers
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102181628150.17986@localhost6.localdomain6>
References: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E14F@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102181628150.17986@localhost6.localdomain6>
Message-ID: <4D5F446D.8000106@jolexa.net>

On 02/18/2011 04:30 PM, Yaron wrote:
> Um. Linux has been doing 64-bit for ages now. It's pretty much rock
> solid. I can't think of any reason why you'd run in 32-bit on 64-bt
> capable hardware unless you're going to be using 32-bit applications...
> which you're probably not going to do.

Well, I still choose to install 32bit installs where I don't have >4G 
RAM since I don't /need/ to program for 64bit installs and/or have other 
64bit hardware to test on. So, to answer the OP: do what you want ;)

-Jeremy

> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011, Scott Downing wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm looking at upgrading our Ubuntu 8.04 LTS servers to 10.04 LTS,
>> they're
>> clusters of apache and mysql servers. I see now the Ubuntu website
>> recommends 64bit but I'm unsure if going to 64bit now is a good idea.
>> There's no GUI on the servers or anything that isn't needed, its all
>> CLI and
>> they need to run apache with apache2-mpm-itk virtual servers running php,
>> ruby, and python. I also need NFS to be solid and our backup client
>> (Avamar)
>> to be supported. I'm checking on Avamar right now, that might be a deal
>> breaker but how well does 32bit software run on the 64 bit systems?
>> What's
>> the current state of 64bit in linux? Should I try or is it not worth
>> it yet?
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -Yaron

From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Feb 19 15:39:39 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:39:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 64bit Servers
In-Reply-To: <4D5F446D.8000106@jolexa.net>
References: <7D5F5E8B99ED1F4EAB6A5EC9F0D8CCA80115E14F@erdc-mail.erdc.k12.mn.us>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102181628150.17986@localhost6.localdomain6>
	<4D5F446D.8000106@jolexa.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=LpCi6yX3DqXGX8yx0j2BbWOsF3=w8khVxv0KY@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Jeremy Olexa <jolexa at jolexa.net> wrote:

> On 02/18/2011 04:30 PM, Yaron wrote:
>
>> Um. Linux has been doing 64-bit for ages now. It's pretty much rock
>> solid. I can't think of any reason why you'd run in 32-bit on 64-bt
>> capable hardware unless you're going to be using 32-bit applications...
>> which you're probably not going to do.
>>
>
> Well, I still choose to install 32bit installs where I don't have >4G RAM
> since I don't /need/ to program for 64bit installs and/or have other 64bit
> hardware to test on. So, to answer the OP: do what you want ;)
>
> -Jeremy
>
>
32-bit software runs just fine on 64-bit platforms so long as all of their
requisite shared libraries are present, which is the same requirement they
have on 32-bit systems too. ;)  These days I don't even really think about
32-bit vs. 64-bit much anymore.  I go 64-bit by default and it hasn't caused
me any issues on Linux or Windows 7.  Ad the original poster noted - there
are key technologies that must be in place.  I suspect they are available in
a 64-bit world now - just verify that and you should be good to go.

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110219/a22707c6/attachment.html>

From james007wjs at gmail.com  Sun Feb 20 14:46:42 2011
From: james007wjs at gmail.com (wes smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 14:46:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ipv6 woes
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=kh-c4WDPdQuAKC143gohc1jDpCd3g9LR2GSzs@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to complete the cert from http://ipv6.he.net/certification/
but run into problems.  The next step is to connect to the website
with an ipv6 addy.  I'm using ubuntu server in a vbox that is bridged
to my ethernet.
Qwest is my ISP
Used the conf given on the website
Allowing protocol 41 on the server
iptables -t filter -I INPUT -p 41 -j ACCEPT
iptables -t filter -I OUTPUT -p 41 -j ACCEPT

try to portscan / ping from outside the network and get no response,
ping6 ipv6.google.com resloves to ipv4???? on my freebsd box ping6
resloves to the correct ipv6 addy

root at frogger:~# ping6 ipv6.google.com
PING ipv6.google.com(iw-in-x93.1e100.net) 56 data bytes

and from the outside

~ ping6 2001:470:1f10:b8f::2
PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2a01:270:0:ffff:ffff:2050:0:2 --> 2001:470:1f10:b8f::2
^C
I can ping / traceroute my ipv4 addy from outside just fine. Must be a
protocol 41 / nat problem??

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Sun Feb 20 21:29:44 2011
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 21:29:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ipv6 woes
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=kh-c4WDPdQuAKC143gohc1jDpCd3g9LR2GSzs@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=kh-c4WDPdQuAKC143gohc1jDpCd3g9LR2GSzs@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D61DC28.2000100@beer.tclug.org>

On 2/20/2011 2:46 PM, wes smith wrote:
> I'm trying to complete the cert from http://ipv6.he.net/certification/
> but run into problems.  The next step is to connect to the website
> with an ipv6 addy.  I'm using ubuntu server in a vbox that is bridged
> to my ethernet.
> Qwest is my ISP
> Used the conf given on the website
> Allowing protocol 41 on the server
> iptables -t filter -I INPUT -p 41 -j ACCEPT
> iptables -t filter -I OUTPUT -p 41 -j ACCEPT
>
> try to portscan / ping from outside the network and get no response,
> ping6 ipv6.google.com resloves to ipv4???? on my freebsd box ping6
> resloves to the correct ipv6 addy
>
> root at frogger:~# ping6 ipv6.google.com
> PING ipv6.google.com(iw-in-x93.1e100.net) 56 data bytes
>
> and from the outside
>
> ~ ping6 2001:470:1f10:b8f::2
> PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2a01:270:0:ffff:ffff:2050:0:2 -->  2001:470:1f10:b8f::2
> ^C
> I can ping / traceroute my ipv4 addy from outside just fine. Must be a
> protocol 41 / nat problem??

  Can you ping6 2001:470:1f10:b8f::1 (i.e., what should be the HE side 
of your tunnel) with any regularity?  I'm attempting to trace to 
2001:470:1f10:b8f::2 to no avail.  You're not filtering IPv6 traffic 
(with ip6tables), are you?  (Wait, if you're behind NAT, is the NAT 
device forwarding protocol 41 to whatever computer/device is terminating 
the tunnel?)

  I'd be happy to follow up on this; HE has specifically asked me to 
help others complete the certification. 
http://twitter.com/#!/henet/status/38124125469937665 ;-)

      Jima
(1 of 17 Sages in MN)

From ryanjcole at me.com  Mon Feb 21 13:14:11 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 13:14:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] 3Com Baseline Switch 2928 help [ot]
Message-ID: <CD06C2AE-A772-4F88-8A2A-0C88A1A977A6@me.com>

If there is anyone out there than can help me off-list with the configuration of a 3Com Baseline 2928-HPWR I'd be most appreciative.

Specifically with setting up the VLANs so that DHCP doesn't get relayed (if possible). I have been finding nothing online with how to do that.

Thanks,
Ryan


From james007wjs at gmail.com  Mon Feb 21 13:41:29 2011
From: james007wjs at gmail.com (wes smith)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:41:29 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] ipv6 woes
Message-ID: <AANLkTinTHSCwbh1Egu3fJAZUGjjP=9QqbLm0X=zLAKs-@mail.gmail.com>

> On 2/20/2011 2:46 PM, wes smith wrote:
>> I'm trying to complete the cert from http://ipv6.he.net/certification/
>> but run into problems. ?The next step is to connect to the website
>> with an ipv6 addy. ?I'm using ubuntu server in a vbox that is bridged
>> to my ethernet.
>> Qwest is my ISP
>> Used the conf given on the website
>> Allowing protocol 41 on the server
>> iptables -t filter -I INPUT -p 41 -j ACCEPT
>> iptables -t filter -I OUTPUT -p 41 -j ACCEPT
>>
>> try to portscan / ping from outside the network and get no response,
>> ping6 ipv6.google.com resloves to ipv4???? on my freebsd box ping6
>> resloves to the correct ipv6 addy
>>
>> root at frogger:~# ping6 ipv6.google.com
>> PING ipv6.google.com(iw-in-x93.1e100.net) 56 data bytes
>>
>> and from the outside
>>
>> ~ ping6 2001:470:1f10:b8f::2
>> PING6(56=40+8+8 bytes) 2a01:270:0:ffff:ffff:2050:0:2 --> ?2001:470:1f10:b8f::2
>> ^C
>> I can ping / traceroute my ipv4 addy from outside just fine. Must be a
>> protocol 41 / nat problem??
>
> ?Can you ping6 2001:470:1f10:b8f::1 (i.e., what should be the HE side
> of your tunnel) with any regularity? ?I'm attempting to trace to
> 2001:470:1f10:b8f::2 to no avail. ?You're not filtering IPv6 traffic
> (with ip6tables), are you? ?(Wait, if you're behind NAT, is the NAT
> device forwarding protocol 41 to whatever computer/device is terminating
> the tunnel?)
>
> ?I'd be happy to follow up on this; HE has specifically asked me to
> help others complete the certification.
> http://twitter.com/#!/henet/status/38124125469937665 ;-)
>
> ? ? ?Jima
> (1 of 17 Sages in MN)

Okay I put the router on the dmz so everything should be open to the
net.  My bridge has dd-wrt, but my main router doesnt support dd-wrt
and I don't think adding some iptables rules will affect anything

added some more rules to the host
ip6tables -A INPUT -p icmpv6 -j ACCEPT
ip6tables -A FORWARD -j ACCEPT
enabled ipv6 forwarding in the kernel

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Tue Feb 22 00:29:55 2011
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:29:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Meeting February 26, 2011
Message-ID: <4D6357E3.9000801@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday February 26th at TIES,
at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

We will be having a Penguins Unbound Meeting February 26th.

I am working on having a speaker, which I hope to announce later this week!

Thanks.

Hope to see you there.

==>brian.

*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

I was able to connect to this stream with mplayer on Ubuntu 10.04, here
is the command I used:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

I have heard that this url,
http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
works with VLC. (Thanks Neal!)

==>brian.

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Tue Feb 22 08:54:34 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:54:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
Message-ID: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>

Customer:* **Hi, this is Celine.  I can't get my DVD out** **!!!*
Tech Support:* Have you tried pushing the button?*
Customer:* **Yes, I'm sure it's really stuck.*
Tech Support: *That doesn't sound good; I'll make a note.*
Customer:* **No, wait a minute, I hadn't inserted it
yet.  It's still on my desk . . . sorry.  Thank you.*
...............................................
.
Tech Support:* Click on the 'MY COMPUTER' icon on the
left of the screen.*
Customer:* **Your left or my left?** *
...............................................
.
Tech Support: *Hello.  How may I help you?*
Male Customer:  * **Hi . . . I can't print.*
Tech Support: *Would you click on 'START' for me and . . .*
Customer: *Listen pal; don't start getting technical on
me.  I'm not Billi Gates!!!*
...............................................
.
Customer:* *Good afternoon, this is Ma*rtha*.  I can't
print.  Every time I try, it says . . . 'CAN'T FIND
PRINTER'.  I even lifted the printer and placed it
in front of the monitor, but the computer still
says it can't find it!!!
...............................................
.
Customer:* **I have problems printing in red.*
Tech Support:* Do you have a color printer?*
Customer:* **Aaaah . . . . . . . . . . thank you.*
...............................................
.
Tech Support: *What's on your monitor now, ma'am?*
Customer:* **A teddy bear that my boyfriend bought for
me at the 7-11 store.** *
...............................................
.
Customer:* **My keyboard is not working anymore.*
Tech Support: *Are you sure your keyboard is plugged
into the computer?*
Customer:* **No.  I can't get behind the computer.*
Tech Support: *Pick up your keyboard and take ten
steps backwards.*
Customer:* **Okay.*
Tech Support: *Did the keyboard come with you?*
Customer:* **Yes.*
Tech Support: *That means the keyboard is not plugged
in.  Is there another keyboard?*
Customer:* **Yes, there's another one here.  Wait a
moment please. . . . . . .  Ah, that one does work.
Thanks.** *
...............................................
.
Tech Support:* Your password is the small letter 'a' as in
apple, a capital letter 'V' as in Victor, and the number '7'.*
Customer:* **Is that '7' in capital letters?*
...............................................
.
Customer:* *I can't get on the internet.
Tech Support:* Are you absolutely sure you used the
correct password?*
Customer:* *Yes, I'm sure.  I saw my co*-*worker do it.
Tech Support: *Can you tell me what the password was?*
Customer:* *Five dots.
...............................................
.
Tech Support:* What anti-virus program do you use?*
Customer:* **Netscape.*
Tech Support:* **That's not an anti-virus program.*
Customer:* **Oh, sorry . . . Internet Explorer.*
...............................................
.
Customer:* **I have a huge problem! My friend has
placed a screen saver on my computer . . . but,
every** **time I move my mouse, it disappears.*
...............................................
.
Tech Support: *How may I help you?*
Customer:* **I'm writing my first email.*
Tech Support: *OK, and what seems to be the probl**em**?*
Customer:* **Well, I have the letter 'a' in the address,
but how do I get the little circle around it.*
...............................................
.
A woman customer called the Canon help desk because
she had a problem with her printer.
Tech Support: *Are you running it under windows?*
Customer:* No, my desk is next to the door, but that
is a good point.  The man sitting next to me isby
a window, and his printer is working fine!*
...............................................
.
.*And last, but not least . . .**
.**
Tech Support: **Okay Bob, press the control and escape
keys at the same time.** ** That brings up a task list in the
middle of the screen.** ** Now, type the letter 'P' to bring
up the Program Manager.**
Customer: **I don't have a 'P'.** **
Tech Support: **On your keyboard, Bob.** **
Customer: **What do yo** **u **mean?**
Tech Support: **'P' . . . on your keyboard, Bob.**
*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110222/0daf161f/attachment-0001.html>

From tclug at jfoo.org  Tue Feb 22 12:43:40 2011
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:43:40 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Continuous Integration tool a la CruiseControl
Message-ID: <57491.167.206.189.6.1298400220.squirrel@mail.jfoo.org>

Does anyone use CruiseControl or another alternative? We are using
and it is not working well, especially the web interface. This would
be for linux or solaris, so .NET is not a factor. It should support
Mercurial for the source code control system.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

John



From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Tue Feb 22 12:56:14 2011
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn at charter.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:56:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Continuous Integration tool a la CruiseControl
Message-ID: <1440055631.3556261.1298400974809.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

I have been using Hudson (have not moved to Jenkins yet) successfully on 
a number of projects.  It has lots of bells and whistles including a 
Mecurial plugin 
(http://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Mercurial+Plugin) though I 
have not run into a client using Mecurial yet (SVN mostly).

Perry

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:43 PM, John Gateley wrote:

> Does anyone use CruiseControl or another alternative? We are using
> and it is not working well, especially the web interface. This would
> be for linux or solaris, so .NET is not a factor. It should support
> Mercurial for the source code control system.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From bradyh at bitstream.net  Tue Feb 22 13:30:57 2011
From: bradyh at bitstream.net (Brady Hegberg)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:30:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Continuous Integration tool a la CruiseControl
In-Reply-To: <1440055631.3556261.1298400974809.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <1440055631.3556261.1298400974809.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <C33DC93B-7750-4F34-8558-AD0ED7D5865F@bitstream.net>

I've used both Hudson and CruiseControl.  Hudson seems to be easier to configure and more flexible - definitely worth a try.  My impression is that both packages have approximately the same capabilities but the Hudson project has done more work on the interface.

-Brady

On Feb 22, 2011, at 12:56 PM, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:

> I have been using Hudson (have not moved to Jenkins yet) successfully on a number of projects.  It has lots of bells and whistles including a Mecurial plugin (http://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Mercurial+Plugin) though I have not run into a client using Mecurial yet (SVN mostly).
> 
> Perry
> 
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:43 PM, John Gateley wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone use CruiseControl or another alternative? We are using
>> and it is not working well, especially the web interface. This would
>> be for linux or solaris, so .NET is not a factor. It should support
>> Mercurial for the source code control system.
>> 
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 22 17:27:08 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:27:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com>

http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php
http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/
Anyone who knows how to use a computer properly should know about BOFH.
Best read in order starting with the prehistory and the first articles
from 1995. There are year pages on The Register's site up to 2007. The
rest are just in reverse chronological order.

From jjensen at apache.org  Tue Feb 22 19:01:39 2011
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:01:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Continuous Integration tool a la CruiseControl
In-Reply-To: <C33DC93B-7750-4F34-8558-AD0ED7D5865F@bitstream.net>
References: <1440055631.3556261.1298400974809.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<C33DC93B-7750-4F34-8558-AD0ED7D5865F@bitstream.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikCsAU7jsU-_SvMDs4mWWZ_t2sTvoiOxBqT_Kpi@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed.  I've used CruiseControl, Hudson, and Bamboo.  Hudson
surpassed CruiseControl in many ways.  I wouldn't want to use CC again
unless I had to.  I encountered a number of CC problems related to
when they tried to make it multi-threaded (buggy).  When I contributed
a feature, I saw how the code was just a mess...


On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Brady Hegberg <bradyh at bitstream.net> wrote:
> I've used both Hudson and CruiseControl. ?Hudson seems to be easier to configure and more flexible - definitely worth a try. ?My impression is that both packages have approximately the same capabilities but the Hudson project has done more work on the interface.
>
> -Brady
>
> On Feb 22, 2011, at 12:56 PM, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
>
>> I have been using Hudson (have not moved to Jenkins yet) successfully on a number of projects. ?It has lots of bells and whistles including a Mecurial plugin (http://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Mercurial+Plugin) though I have not run into a client using Mecurial yet (SVN mostly).
>>
>> Perry
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:43 PM, John Gateley wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone use CruiseControl or another alternative? We are using
>>> and it is not working well, especially the web interface. This would
>>> be for linux or solaris, so .NET is not a factor. It should support
>>> Mercurial for the source code control system.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Tue Feb 22 21:34:56 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:34:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OS alternative to cPanel
Message-ID: <20110222213456.4a4a1e6e@prokofiev>

I'm looking to setup a generic CentOS box for a buddy of mine who
wants to do hosting on a server via CoLo, I homebrewed up a CP of my
own on a Debian box running a basterdized qmail/tinydns and custom
build httpd/mysql/etc.  It worked well but time to move on and I
don't have time to maintain all those packages.  I also don't have
time to write another CP or port my PoS to it.

Main requirements are fairly straightforward:

1. able to add/manage domains, ssl cert management, manage DNS records
2. able to manage email accounts and anti-spam settings
3. able to add/manage mysql and pgsql (nice to have) 
4. user management - ftp/ssh accounts, password change, etc.
5. nice to have: add a wordpress blog / xcart store to a site
6. nice to have: user login to do some of the above for their own
domain
7. nice to have: integrated website stats (awstats or equiv)
8. not optional - should have a focus on security

Stuff like viewing logs, automated billing, managing backups,
bandwidth monitoring, uploading web pages, managing server patches,
adding new software, etc. I don't mind leaving off or doing myself.

I was leaning towards webmin but thought I'd check with the group
for any suggestions.  Have bad experience with plesk from a while
ago so leaving that off the table.  We have experience with cPanel
through another fail host, it's ok but too much stuff and too
expensive.

Josh

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Tue Feb 22 21:54:38 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:54:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:27:08 -0600
Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/
> Anyone who knows how to use a computer properly should know about
> BOFH. Best read in order starting with the prehistory and the first
> articles from 1995. There are year pages on The Register's site up
> to 2007. The rest are just in reverse chronological order.

Ah yes, great links - and also highly recommended for anyone that
works with id10t's:

http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com (start with episode 1)

"You can't arrange em by p3nis!"

And when those are over there's always this gem:

http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/

Josh

From adam at askewview.net  Tue Feb 22 23:03:33 2011
From: adam at askewview.net (Adam Barthelemy)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 00:03:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] OS alternative to cPanel
In-Reply-To: <20110222213456.4a4a1e6e@prokofiev>
Message-ID: <1298437413.3329@askewview.net>

Josh,

When I built my new web/email/dns server hosted at linode I went with Virtualmin on CentOS and have been very very happy with it so far.
I ended up having to go with a little more RAM than I originally expected on my linode due to performance issues but all in all it has been a good experience. 

--Adam

Josh Trutwin <josh at trutwins.homeip.net> wrote ..
> I'm looking to setup a generic CentOS box for a buddy of mine who
> wants to do hosting on a server via CoLo, I homebrewed up a CP of my
> own on a Debian box running a basterdized qmail/tinydns and custom
> build httpd/mysql/etc.  It worked well but time to move on and I
> don't have time to maintain all those packages.  I also don't have
> time to write another CP or port my PoS to it.
> 
> Main requirements are fairly straightforward:
> 
> 1. able to add/manage domains, ssl cert management, manage DNS records
> 2. able to manage email accounts and anti-spam settings
> 3. able to add/manage mysql and pgsql (nice to have) 
> 4. user management - ftp/ssh accounts, password change, etc.
> 5. nice to have: add a wordpress blog / xcart store to a site
> 6. nice to have: user login to do some of the above for their own
> domain
> 7. nice to have: integrated website stats (awstats or equiv)
> 8. not optional - should have a focus on security
> 
> Stuff like viewing logs, automated billing, managing backups,
> bandwidth monitoring, uploading web pages, managing server patches,
> adding new software, etc. I don't mind leaving off or doing myself.
> 
> I was leaning towards webmin but thought I'd check with the group
> for any suggestions.  Have bad experience with plesk from a while
> ago so leaving that off the table.  We have experience with cPanel
> through another fail host, it's ok but too much stuff and too
> expensive.
> 
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 23 13:12:25 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 13:12:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com>
	<20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
Message-ID: <4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>

On 2011.02.22 09:54 PM, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com (start with episode 1)
This is awesome. It's too bad there are only 5 videos.

Hard drive sandwiches for everyone!

From j at packetgod.com  Wed Feb 23 14:12:52 2011
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 14:12:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com> <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
	<4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah I love that site, thanks for making me go look at it again as there was
a new video I hadn't seen yet.

This is another old one but good one, I can't find the original link but
this has the transcript:

http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.htm

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 2011.02.22 09:54 PM, Josh Trutwin wrote:
> > http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com (start with episode 1)
> This is awesome. It's too bad there are only 5 videos.
>
> Hard drive sandwiches for everyone!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110223/c4f72dd5/attachment.html>

From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 23 16:14:38 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:14:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com>
	<20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>	<4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D6586CE.1040706@gmail.com>

On 2011.02.23 02:12 PM, J Cruit wrote:
> This is another old one but good one, I can't find the original link
> but this has the transcript:
>
> http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.htm
Should be:
http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.html
<http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.htm>


I didn't realize that hack kits were available to such morons. :-D

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Wed Feb 23 20:50:30 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:50:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <4D6586CE.1040706@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com> <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
	<4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D6586CE.1040706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik06Tmv157D2_MwRf8MY1mbaV+cjUcLQgUsODgW@mail.gmail.com>

poor b!tchchecker.  send the kids to school and buy them books, and what do
you end up with?




a pile of books




On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 2011.02.23 02:12 PM, J Cruit wrote:
> > This is another old one but good one, I can't find the original link
> > but this has the transcript:
> >
> > http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.htm
> Should be:
> http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.html
> <http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.htm>
>
>
> I didn't realize that hack kits were available to such morons. :-D
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110223/12c60cd2/attachment.html>

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Feb 23 22:53:22 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 22:53:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com> <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
	<4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110223225322.5442e77e@prokofiev>

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 14:12:52 -0600
J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:

> Yeah I love that site, thanks for making me go look at it again as
> there was a new video I hadn't seen yet.

The VPN one?  If so I think that's my favorite.

> This is another old one but good one, I can't find the original
> link but this has the transcript:
> 
> http://www.opensc.ws/off-topic/4788-funny-best-irc-hacker.htm

Forgot the "l" at the end.  :)

Thanks!

Josh

From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Wed Feb 23 23:00:22 2011
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:00:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik06Tmv157D2_MwRf8MY1mbaV+cjUcLQgUsODgW@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com> <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
	<4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D6586CE.1040706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik06Tmv157D2_MwRf8MY1mbaV+cjUcLQgUsODgW@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110223230022.161c4b88@prokofiev>

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:50:30 -0600
Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:

> poor b!tchchecker.  

On a more serious note, this is a fascinating read about a real hack: 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/anonymous-speaks-the-inside-story-of-the-hbgary-hack.ars

Josh

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 09:53:47 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 09:53:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <20110223230022.161c4b88@prokofiev>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com> <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
	<4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D6586CE.1040706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik06Tmv157D2_MwRf8MY1mbaV+cjUcLQgUsODgW@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110223230022.161c4b88@prokofiev>
Message-ID: <AANLkTino0s72phWzQG+Q+hmpbVGEP+AxfmeQikC-zTrm@mail.gmail.com>

> On a more serious note, this is a fascinating read about a real hack:
>
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/anonymous-speaks-the-inside-story-of-the-hbgary-hack.ars
>
> Josh

Thanks for that!

I use better security practices at home..

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 11:28:30 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:28:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTino0s72phWzQG+Q+hmpbVGEP+AxfmeQikC-zTrm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com> <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
	<4D655C19.20706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Gv+KXeU=LwYTA6OwjHvkt-mLSAsPdZcO_LjtH@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D6586CE.1040706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik06Tmv157D2_MwRf8MY1mbaV+cjUcLQgUsODgW@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110223230022.161c4b88@prokofiev>
	<AANLkTino0s72phWzQG+Q+hmpbVGEP+AxfmeQikC-zTrm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikUb0uuGHzdd1JeLOVdLd0sfEQwbCNt4i55GEsk@mail.gmail.com>

i want to have a focus on security when i graduate.  but when is it too much
security?   it just goes to show you the importance of backups.  it is like
leaving your car unlocked, if someone wants in they will get in; even in
broad daylight with traffic passing by.  i don't mess around on the
internet, mostly research and email, but when i use bill gates system i seem
to get viruses, rootkits, and to my surprise this year i had a worm (from a
scholarship website???) usually every few months.  i enjoy this sort of
thing because i get bored with computers quickly.  there must bet tons of
compromised computers out there from the average user that hackers use as
drones.  it is to the point that i don't bother with antivirus in linux and
i use clamwin for windows.  never used a mac though i am a bsd guy also.

not really funny, but since we are on a more serious note and i am bored at
home i though i would write about myself.

alright, so a priest and a rabbi are walking past a school playground...
nay, just kidding



On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Nathan Caza <mastercactapus at gmail.com>wrote:

> > On a more serious note, this is a fascinating read about a real hack:
> >
> >
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/anonymous-speaks-the-inside-story-of-the-hbgary-hack.ars
> >
> > Josh
>
> Thanks for that!
>
> I use better security practices at home..
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/83bff438/attachment-0001.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 13:03:43 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:03:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
Message-ID: <AANLkTikCSW77H09e3h3dEdSkOCSWcgBkiV8DMF_6zeiD@mail.gmail.com>

does anyone have a mac they can spare?  i would like to become familiar with
them to prepare myself better for school.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/9735e553/attachment.html>

From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Thu Feb 24 13:12:55 2011
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:12:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
Message-ID: <1284298024.3781382.1298574775158.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>


Do you need to learn hardware or software?  The reason I ask is that I 
have Mac OSX 10.6.3 running on Virtual Box 4.x (on Windows 7).  So you 
can work with the OS outside of the hardware.  I did it in order to 
learn how do develop in Objective-C for iOS.

Perry Hoekstra

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Samael wrote:

  does anyone have a mac they can spare?? i would like to become 
familiar with them to prepare myself better for school.

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
<javascript:parent.gMail.openComposeWindow('tclug-list at mn-linux.org')> ? 
<javascript:parent.gMail.openComposeWindow('tclug-list at mn-linux.org')>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> ? 
<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/3d3c142f/attachment.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 13:27:50 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:27:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <1284298024.3781382.1298574775158.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <1284298024.3781382.1298574775158.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinErUH-3C5pXO7hBASvbABXcS1sV-UcLtzCaVQ0@mail.gmail.com>

i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box.  i have
vmware workstaion.  i just couldn't get the disk to burn.  it would go from
a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never figured
that one out.  i think software would be fine though i would have to admit a
actual mac would be a little more interesting; not quite sure why.  i am
going to school for computer science not computer engineering.  so, either
would be a great help!  i have a dedicated linux machine now that i would
like to learn how to use xen or something similar.  anyway, in closing,
software would be just fine...

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:

> Do you need to learn hardware or software?  The reason I ask is that I have
> Mac OSX 10.6.3 running on Virtual Box 4.x (on Windows 7).  So you can work
> with the OS outside of the hardware.  I did it in order to learn how do
> develop in Objective-C for iOS.
>
> Perry Hoekstra
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Samael wrote:
>
>  does anyone have a mac they can spare?  i would like to become familiar
> with them to prepare myself better for school.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> *tclug-list at mn-linux.org*
> *http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list*<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>   <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/aeadd5a3/attachment.html>

From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Thu Feb 24 13:36:09 2011
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:36:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
Message-ID: <1698682786.3786720.1298576169519.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

Your best bet is to purchase the actual Mac OSX.  I did, burned it to an 
ISO image and went from there.  I had nothing but trouble with VMWare, 
that is why I ended up using Virtual Box.  You can run Virtual Box on a 
Linux distro, I am using Windows 7 as it is a work laptop.  If you go 
down the hardware route, the challenge would be find something that can 
run one of the later versions of OSX Leopard/Snow Leopard.

Perry


On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Samael wrote:

> i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box. 
> i have
> vmware workstaion.  i just couldn't get the disk to burn.  it would go 
> from
> a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never 
> figured
> that one out.  i think software would be fine though i would have to 
> admit a
> actual mac would be a little more interesting; not quite sure why.  i 
> am
> going to school for computer science not computer engineering.  so, 
> either
> would be a great help!  i have a dedicated linux machine now that i 
> would
> like to learn how to use xen or something similar.  anyway, in 
> closing,
> software would be just fine...
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Do you need to learn hardware or software?  The reason I ask is that 
>> I have
>> Mac OSX 10.6.3 running on Virtual Box 4.x (on Windows 7).  So you can 
>> work
>> with the OS outside of the hardware.  I did it in order to learn how 
>> do
>> develop in Objective-C for iOS.
>>
>> Perry Hoekstra
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Samael wrote:
>>
>>  does anyone have a mac they can spare?  i would like to become 
>> familiar
>> with them to prepare myself better for school.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> *tclug-list at mn-linux.org*
>> 
>> *http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list*<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>   <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
>
>      ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 13:45:38 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:45:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <1698682786.3786720.1298576169519.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <1698682786.3786720.1298576169519.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=T+Fx_AKMQ75Apw19rhamOaoTWtmr8yR92=95F@mail.gmail.com>

i am forced to get free stuff right now due to huge financial constraints.
me and my wife are both in school (she is going to le cordon bleu, sooo
expensive) and our 2 kids get all of the cash i can scrounge up.  they are
awfully cute kids so i have to forgive them for using my hard earned cash
for their diapers and food. ^ ^
i am going to install virtual box right now and give it a go.  (give it a
go, been listening to too many british speakers latley)

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:

> Your best bet is to purchase the actual Mac OSX.  I did, burned it to an
> ISO image and went from there.  I had nothing but trouble with VMWare, that
> is why I ended up using Virtual Box.  You can run Virtual Box on a Linux
> distro, I am using Windows 7 as it is a work laptop.  If you go down the
> hardware route, the challenge would be find something that can run one of
> the later versions of OSX Leopard/Snow Leopard.
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Samael wrote:
>
>  i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box. i
>> have
>> vmware workstaion.  i just couldn't get the disk to burn.  it would go
>> from
>> a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never
>> figured
>> that one out.  i think software would be fine though i would have to admit
>> a
>> actual mac would be a little more interesting; not quite sure why.  i am
>> going to school for computer science not computer engineering.  so, either
>> would be a great help!  i have a dedicated linux machine now that i would
>> like to learn how to use xen or something similar.  anyway, in closing,
>> software would be just fine...
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Do you need to learn hardware or software?  The reason I ask is that I
>>> have
>>> Mac OSX 10.6.3 running on Virtual Box 4.x (on Windows 7).  So you can
>>> work
>>> with the OS outside of the hardware.  I did it in order to learn how do
>>> develop in Objective-C for iOS.
>>>
>>> Perry Hoekstra
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Samael wrote:
>>>
>>>  does anyone have a mac they can spare?  i would like to become familiar
>>> with them to prepare myself better for school.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> *tclug-list at mn-linux.org*
>>>
>>> *http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list*<
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>  <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/1aeb63f7/attachment-0001.html>

From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Thu Feb 24 13:56:32 2011
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:56:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
Message-ID: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

If you know a U of M student, you can have them purchase it for around 
$30+

Perry


On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Samael wrote:

> i am forced to get free stuff right now due to huge financial 
> constraints.
> me and my wife are both in school (she is going to le cordon bleu, 
> sooo
> expensive) and our 2 kids get all of the cash i can scrounge up.  they 
> are
> awfully cute kids so i have to forgive them for using my hard earned 
> cash
> for their diapers and food. ^ ^
> i am going to install virtual box right now and give it a go.  (give 
> it a
> go, been listening to too many british speakers latley)
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Your best bet is to purchase the actual Mac OSX.  I did, burned it to 
>> an
>> ISO image and went from there.  I had nothing but trouble with 
>> VMWare, that
>> is why I ended up using Virtual Box.  You can run Virtual Box on a 
>> Linux
>> distro, I am using Windows 7 as it is a work laptop.  If you go down 
>> the
>> hardware route, the challenge would be find something that can run 
>> one of
>> the later versions of OSX Leopard/Snow Leopard.
>>
>> Perry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Samael wrote:
>>
>>  i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box. 
>> i
>>> have
>>> vmware workstaion.  i just couldn't get the disk to burn.  it would 
>>> go
>>> from
>>> a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never
>>> figured
>>> that one out.  i think software would be fine though i would have to 
>>> admit
>>> a
>>> actual mac would be a little more interesting; not quite sure why. 
>>> i am
>>> going to school for computer science not computer engineering.  so, 
>>> either
>>> would be a great help!  i have a dedicated linux machine now that i 
>>> would
>>> like to learn how to use xen or something similar.  anyway, in 
>>> closing,
>>> software would be just fine...
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Do you need to learn hardware or software?  The reason I ask is 
>>> that I
>>>> have
>>>> Mac OSX 10.6.3 running on Virtual Box 4.x (on Windows 7).  So you 
>>>> can
>>>> work
>>>> with the OS outside of the hardware.  I did it in order to learn 
>>>> how do
>>>> develop in Objective-C for iOS.
>>>>
>>>> Perry Hoekstra
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Samael wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  does anyone have a mac they can spare?  i would like to become 
>>>> familiar
>>>> with them to prepare myself better for school.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> *tclug-list at mn-linux.org*
>>>>
>>>> *http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list*<
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>  <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>     ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>      ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From florin at iucha.net  Thu Feb 24 14:00:58 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:00:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <20110224200058.GP2313@styx.iucha.org>

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 02:56:32PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> If you know a U of M student, you can have them purchase it for around $30+

As long as you don't worry about violating the terms of use, what's
ignoring the academic terms of use?  Just some frosting on top...

In this channel, we actually use the other meaning of 'free software'.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/e8b093ee/attachment.pgp>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 14:04:09 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:04:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>

good information.  thank you.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:56 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:

> If you know a U of M student, you can have them purchase it for around $30+
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Samael wrote:
>
>  i am forced to get free stuff right now due to huge financial constraints.
>> me and my wife are both in school (she is going to le cordon bleu, sooo
>> expensive) and our 2 kids get all of the cash i can scrounge up.  they are
>> awfully cute kids so i have to forgive them for using my hard earned cash
>> for their diapers and food. ^ ^
>> i am going to install virtual box right now and give it a go.  (give it a
>> go, been listening to too many british speakers latley)
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Your best bet is to purchase the actual Mac OSX.  I did, burned it to an
>>> ISO image and went from there.  I had nothing but trouble with VMWare,
>>> that
>>> is why I ended up using Virtual Box.  You can run Virtual Box on a Linux
>>> distro, I am using Windows 7 as it is a work laptop.  If you go down the
>>> hardware route, the challenge would be find something that can run one of
>>> the later versions of OSX Leopard/Snow Leopard.
>>>
>>> Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Samael wrote:
>>>
>>>  i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box. i
>>>
>>>> have
>>>> vmware workstaion.  i just couldn't get the disk to burn.  it would go
>>>> from
>>>> a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never
>>>> figured
>>>> that one out.  i think software would be fine though i would have to
>>>> admit
>>>> a
>>>> actual mac would be a little more interesting; not quite sure why. i am
>>>> going to school for computer science not computer engineering.  so,
>>>> either
>>>> would be a great help!  i have a dedicated linux machine now that i
>>>> would
>>>> like to learn how to use xen or something similar.  anyway, in closing,
>>>> software would be just fine...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Do you need to learn hardware or software?  The reason I ask is that I
>>>>
>>>>> have
>>>>> Mac OSX 10.6.3 running on Virtual Box 4.x (on Windows 7).  So you can
>>>>> work
>>>>> with the OS outside of the hardware.  I did it in order to learn how do
>>>>> develop in Objective-C for iOS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perry Hoekstra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Samael wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  does anyone have a mac they can spare?  i would like to become
>>>>> familiar
>>>>> with them to prepare myself better for school.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> *tclug-list at mn-linux.org*
>>>>>
>>>>> *http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list*<
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>  <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>    ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/b1b823ea/attachment.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 14:12:39 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:12:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <20110224200058.GP2313@styx.iucha.org>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224200058.GP2313@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimTmpuyb6hGd=dA5Wdab9OpGMgjcBjxXXyMWw+C@mail.gmail.com>

i have applied there.  i am just getting my caught up on math and whatnot
from mctc.   i can see if my student id will do it or if i need to be
actively enrolled.
i suppose the mac question is out of place on this list.  this is the only
list other than boiclues i use.
just wanted to through it out there to see what would become of it  ^_^

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 02:56:32PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> > If you know a U of M student, you can have them purchase it for around
> $30+
>
> As long as you don't worry about violating the terms of use, what's
> ignoring the academic terms of use?  Just some frosting on top...
>
> In this channel, we actually use the other meaning of 'free software'.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/3fd0de47/attachment-0001.html>

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 14:14:30 2011
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:14:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <20110224200058.GP2313@styx.iucha.org>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224200058.GP2313@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <A684D273-8BD1-41F9-A442-CA8F3099B354@gmail.com>

On Feb 24, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> As long as you don't worry about violating the terms of use, what's
> ignoring the academic terms of use?  Just some frosting on top...
> 
> In this channel, we actually use the other meaning of 'free software'.


Well put. One of the reasons I use Linux, despite liking Apple's shiny toys, is that I am free to run it on whatever hardware or vm software I please. 

That said, I have a powermac g4 that you could use. It will only run Leopard, not snow leopard, but the differences are fairly minor. Contact me off list if you're interested. 
- Justin

From sloncho at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 14:15:28 2011
From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:15:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinErUH-3C5pXO7hBASvbABXcS1sV-UcLtzCaVQ0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1284298024.3781382.1298574775158.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTinErUH-3C5pXO7hBASvbABXcS1sV-UcLtzCaVQ0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimrvA5DJ8NjC3XBBMrxymOdca1kmS_pfR8SE=zJ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
> i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box.? i have
> vmware workstaion.? i just couldn't get the disk to burn.? it would go from
> a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never figured
> that one out.? i think software would be fine though i would have to admit a

Just map the iso image to a virtual cd drive in VirtualBox, no need to burn it.

-- 
Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)

Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 14:16:53 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:16:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>

        "i am going to school for computer science not computer
engineering."

    I have a question. Where are you attending that they use OSX for CS
coursework? I am attending again and it is actually oriented to
educating the students about Solaris or windows. I run Linux with
windows in Virtual Box so they generally don't give me any trouble.
Wait... I have 2 questions what language does your CS program focus on?
Mine is Java which is kind of surprising considering it is losing favor
rapidly at major schools like MIT.
-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/0868f45a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/0868f45a/attachment.png>

From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Thu Feb 24 14:19:43 2011
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:19:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
Message-ID: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

He said he was a student, I just did not know what school he went to and 
if they had academic discounts on Mac software.  I was pointing out that 
the U of M does offer Mac OSX licenses for purchase.  In this case, I 
was advocating the purchase of licensed software rather that downloading 
something that had been posted to some server.

Perry


On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 02:56:32PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net 
> wrote:
>> If you know a U of M student, you can have them purchase it for 
>> around $30+
>
> As long as you don't worry about violating the terms of use, what's
> ignoring the academic terms of use?  Just some frosting on top...
>
> In this channel, we actually use the other meaning of 'free software'.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> -- 
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>       http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
>
>      ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From dutchman_mn at charter.net  Thu Feb 24 14:22:18 2011
From: dutchman_mn at charter.net (dutchman_mn at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:22:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
Message-ID: <805625142.3796842.1298578938761.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>

The software comes on a DVD.  I used ImgBurn to create an ISO image to 
mount.

Perry

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Sunny wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box.? 
>> i have
>> vmware workstaion.? i just couldn't get the disk to burn.? it would 
>> go from
>> a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never 
>> figured
>> that one out.? i think software would be fine though i would have to 
>> admit a
>
> Just map the iso image to a virtual cd drive in VirtualBox, no need to 
> burn it.
>
> -- 
> Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)
>
> Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 14:22:10 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:22:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>

it is not "for school"  it is for school.  as i look for potential future
jobs i see mac pop up often.  (i already messed with sparc and solaris).  i
just don't want to be at a disadvantage.  i need every edge i can get.  i am
in conflict about c c++ or java.  no languages taught yet.  still starting
out.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com> wrote:

>          "i am going to school for computer science not computer
> engineering."
>
>     I have a question. Where are you attending that they use OSX for CS
> coursework? I am attending again and it is actually oriented to educating
> the students about Solaris or windows. I run Linux with windows in Virtual
> Box so they generally don't give me any trouble. Wait... I have 2 questions
> what language does your CS program focus on? Mine is Java which is kind of
> surprising considering it is losing favor rapidly at major schools like MIT.
> --
> Patrick "Finn" Robins
> *Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter
> and those who matter don't mind.
> - Dr. Seuss*
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/57420c22/attachment.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 14:26:34 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:26:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <805625142.3796842.1298578938761.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <805625142.3796842.1298578938761.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <AANLkTina8M8MqZmUvLvM65D1XCW_eud4gwiFc-3tnBj1@mail.gmail.com>

thank you all for your responses.  you are mostly if not all super help to
me!

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:22 PM, <dutchman_mn at charter.net> wrote:

> The software comes on a DVD.  I used ImgBurn to create an ISO image to
> mount.
>
> Perry
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Sunny wrote:
>
>  On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> i tried downloading a mac os a few times before using a windows box.  i
>>> have
>>> vmware workstaion.  i just couldn't get the disk to burn.  it would go
>>> from
>>> a gig or something like that to 1 mb then errors; kinda weird, never
>>> figured
>>> that one out.  i think software would be fine though i would have to
>>> admit a
>>>
>>
>> Just map the iso image to a virtual cd drive in VirtualBox, no need to
>> burn it.
>>
>> --
>> Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)
>>
>> Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/745193a4/attachment.html>

From florin at iucha.net  Thu Feb 24 15:06:10 2011
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:06:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
Message-ID: <20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:19:43PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> He said he was a student, I just did not know what school he went to and  
> if they had academic discounts on Mac software.  I was pointing out that  
> the U of M does offer Mac OSX licenses for purchase.  In this case, I  
> was advocating the purchase of licensed software rather that downloading  
> something that had been posted to some server.

As far as I know, running OS X on hardware (or virtual machines) not
explicitly sanctioned by Apple is against their terms of use.

If your school does not have a discount on Mac software and hardware,
you need to purchase it yourself in the Apple academic store.  Asking
somebody to buy it for you is again, against the terms of use.

>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 02:56:32PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net  
>> wrote:
>>> If you know a U of M student, you can have them purchase it for  
>>> around $30+
>>
>> As long as you don't worry about violating the terms of use, what's
>> ignoring the academic terms of use?  Just some frosting on top...

I do not like those terms, but if you want to play in that garden, you
have to pay the gardener.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/a76d25ed/attachment.pgp>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:20:16 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:20:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D66CB90.3010502@gmail.com>

On 02/24/2011 02:22 PM, Samael wrote:
> it is not "for school"  it is for school.  as i look for potential
> future jobs i see mac pop up often.  (i already messed with sparc and
> solaris).  i just don't want to be at a disadvantage.  i need every
> edge i can get.  i am in conflict about c c++ or java.  no languages
> taught yet.  still starting out.

IMHO: I wish more schools would follow MIT's lead and use python.
Just being nosy but what kind of career are you looking for?

-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/0f47b725/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/0f47b725/attachment-0001.png>

From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Thu Feb 24 15:21:38 2011
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:21:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <0000182171@penguinpackets.com>

>  
>I do not like those terms, but if you want to play in that garden, you
> have to pay the gardener.
> 
> Cheers,
> florin
> 
>
>  
>
>
>  

  What would Bob do?

  


  Ha. ?Just cleaning out the list a bit.

  


  Kelly
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/4282f96d/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 196 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/4282f96d/attachment.pgp>
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: 
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/4282f96d/attachment.ksh>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:14:58 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:14:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinQ1G9GaSbsnJhXP06aJ4-BAbotE_Y1xLGzVUch@mail.gmail.com>

interesting.  i wouldn't have read the agreement so thank you for the heads
up.  it seems as though justin came through with a g4 for me so license
restrictions will not be a factor.  a special thanks to justin kremer for
his generosity and help from me and my children.
 njmnh nnkcn   that is a thanks from my youngest...

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:19:43PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> > He said he was a student, I just did not know what school he went to and
> > if they had academic discounts on Mac software.  I was pointing out that
> > the U of M does offer Mac OSX licenses for purchase.  In this case, I
> > was advocating the purchase of licensed software rather that downloading
> > something that had been posted to some server.
>
> As far as I know, running OS X on hardware (or virtual machines) not
> explicitly sanctioned by Apple is against their terms of use.
>
> If your school does not have a discount on Mac software and hardware,
> you need to purchase it yourself in the Apple academic store.  Asking
> somebody to buy it for you is again, against the terms of use.
>
> >> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 02:56:32PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net
> >> wrote:
> >>> If you know a U of M student, you can have them purchase it for
> >>> around $30+
> >>
> >> As long as you don't worry about violating the terms of use, what's
> >> ignoring the academic terms of use?  Just some frosting on top...
>
> I do not like those terms, but if you want to play in that garden, you
> have to pay the gardener.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition.
>      http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/8e6a0fab/attachment.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:23:51 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:23:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <4D66CB90.3010502@gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66CB90.3010502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikDT-nU-OFHFDt1WFgUNTzLmXCQLnazjqSr7S3v@mail.gmail.com>

python is what i started learning  a while back.  computer science and if
all goes well bioinformatics.  computer science mixed with genetics is my
dream job.  just have to make it to a masters or better.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On 02/24/2011 02:22 PM, Samael wrote:
>
> it is not "for school"  it is for school.  as i look for potential future
> jobs i see mac pop up often.  (i already messed with sparc and solaris).  i
> just don't want to be at a disadvantage.  i need every edge i can get.  i am
> in conflict about c c++ or java.  no languages taught yet.  still starting
> out.
>
>
> IMHO: I wish more schools would follow MIT's lead and use python.
> Just being nosy but what kind of career are you looking for?
>
> --
> Patrick "Finn" Robins
> *Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter
> and those who matter don't mind.
> - Dr. Seuss*
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/b10b2d55/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:33:59 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:33:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:19:43PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> > He said he was a student, I just did not know what school he went to and
> > if they had academic discounts on Mac software.  I was pointing out that
> > the U of M does offer Mac OSX licenses for purchase.  In this case, I
> > was advocating the purchase of licensed software rather that downloading
> > something that had been posted to some server.
>
> As far as I know, running OS X on hardware (or virtual machines) not
> explicitly sanctioned by Apple is against their terms of use.
>

Apple's license for OS X, last I checked, specifically forbids running in
virtual environments.

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/9706f45e/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:35:50 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:35:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Itanium
Message-ID: <AANLkTike7St0OvvGidQz=46=7_V0z+ubb=shxu8kYWLb@mail.gmail.com>

At the last beer meet we briefly discussed the IA64 (Itanium) architecture.
Intel just announced a new version of the processor.

Here's a link for those interested.

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Previews-RecordBreaking-32nm-Itanium-Poulson-Processor/?page=1

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/c6a23175/attachment.html>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:39:43 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:39:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikDT-nU-OFHFDt1WFgUNTzLmXCQLnazjqSr7S3v@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>	<4D66CB90.3010502@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikDT-nU-OFHFDt1WFgUNTzLmXCQLnazjqSr7S3v@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D66D01F.3040908@gmail.com>

On 02/24/2011 03:23 PM, Samael wrote:
> python is what i started learning  a while back.  computer science and
> if all goes well bioinformatics.  computer science mixed with genetics
> is my dream job.  just have to make it to a masters or better.

Sounds very interesting, my wife is a genetics geek, we have a a poster
of the human genome. I am aiming for CS and robotics engineering. Best
of luck to you, I know how hard school is with kids I still have 2 in
the house.
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com
> <mailto:13.finn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 02/24/2011 02:22 PM, Samael wrote:
>>     it is not "for school"  it is for school.  as i look for
>>     potential future jobs i see mac pop up often.  (i already messed
>>     with sparc and solaris).  i just don't want to be at a
>>     disadvantage.  i need every edge i can get.  i am in conflict
>>     about c c++ or java.  no languages taught yet.  still starting out.
>
>     IMHO: I wish more schools would follow MIT's lead and use python.
>     Just being nosy but what kind of career are you looking for?
>
>     -- 
>     Patrick "Finn" Robins
>     /Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind
>     don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
>     - Dr. Seuss/
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/2ce50a1e/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/2ce50a1e/attachment-0001.png>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Feb 24 15:46:10 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:46:10 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost><20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org><AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1825451799-1298583974-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1121411764-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

If true, that is just one more reason I will never buy anything apple makes.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:33:59 
To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] mac

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 24 15:48:50 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:48:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <1825451799-1298583974-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1121411764-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1825451799-1298583974-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1121411764-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <25A629A1-EABC-4839-8143-0645E2861641@me.com>

I'd rather know the hardware I've purchased is GOING to work with the system that comes on it. You do *NOT* get that kind of guarantee from any other hardware/software manufacturer.

On Feb 24, 2011, at 3:46 PM, Justin Krejci wrote:

> If true, that is just one more reason I will never buy anything apple makes.


From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:49:48 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:49:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <1825451799-1298583974-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1121411764-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1825451799-1298583974-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1121411764-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimice0jSYDNPL3wJkbsUfRn041Vc0mxBjCt=oBn@mail.gmail.com>

robotics or ai were my other interests. not sure why i picked genetics other
than reading "robin cooks" books which tend to lean towards medical fiction
and that i used to be a surgical assistant for 2 years so i have that
interest in medical type jobs.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> If true, that is just one more reason I will never buy anything apple
> makes.
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com>
> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:33:59
> To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] mac
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/fa0bb246/attachment.html>

From chrome at real-time.com  Thu Feb 24 15:56:06 2011
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:56:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Itanium
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTike7St0OvvGidQz=46=7_V0z+ubb=shxu8kYWLb@mail.gmail.com>;
	from nesius@gmail.com on Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:35:50PM -0600
References: <AANLkTike7St0OvvGidQz=46=7_V0z+ubb=shxu8kYWLb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110224155606.F4984@real-time.com>

On 02/24 03:35 , Robert Nesius wrote:
> At the last beer meet we briefly discussed the IA64 (Itanium) architecture.
> Intel just announced a new version of the processor.
> 
> Here's a link for those interested.
> 
> http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Previews-RecordBreaking-32nm-Itanium-Poulson-Processor/?page=1


Wow. I had thought the Itanic was sunk years ago.
good article. thanks for the link.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 15:51:56 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:51:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimice0jSYDNPL3wJkbsUfRn041Vc0mxBjCt=oBn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1825451799-1298583974-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1121411764-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTimice0jSYDNPL3wJkbsUfRn041Vc0mxBjCt=oBn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Qwej4oRoQ0S3dUCSauf9TKnd=EkcmFTWgRjFR@mail.gmail.com>

oh man,  this could get ugly

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:

> robotics or ai were my other interests. not sure why i picked genetics
> other than reading "robin cooks" books which tend to lean towards medical
> fiction and that i used to be a surgical assistant for 2 years so i have
> that interest in medical type jobs.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com>wrote:
>
>> If true, that is just one more reason I will never buy anything apple
>> makes.
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com>
>> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:33:59
>> To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] mac
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/12ddd16f/attachment.html>

From kris.browne at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 16:24:27 2011
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:24:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Itanium
In-Reply-To: <20110224155606.F4984@real-time.com>
References: <AANLkTike7St0OvvGidQz=46=7_V0z+ubb=shxu8kYWLb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110224155606.F4984@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <E956BD46-780E-473D-93CD-C8A6D905A4D2@gmail.com>

More unsinkable than it's namesake. 



On Feb 24, 2011, at 15:56, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

> On 02/24 03:35 , Robert Nesius wrote:
>> At the last beer meet we briefly discussed the IA64 (Itanium) architecture.
>> Intel just announced a new version of the processor.
>> 
>> Here's a link for those interested.
>> 
>> http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Previews-RecordBreaking-32nm-Itanium-Poulson-Processor/?page=1
> 
> 
> Wow. I had thought the Itanic was sunk years ago.
> good article. thanks for the link.
> 
> -- 
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From james007wjs at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 16:27:32 2011
From: james007wjs at gmail.com (wes smith)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:27:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
Message-ID: <AANLkTikotBkrFWhK6J0X9QMhuMey+jJeXSt7yc7X9XmP@mail.gmail.com>

> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:50:30 -0600
> Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> poor b!tchchecker.
>
> On a more serious note, this is a fascinating read about a real hack:
>
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/02/anonymous-speaks-the-inside-story-of-the-hbgary-hack.ars
>
> Josh

real hacks :( bunch of kiddies with modems behind anon (read AOL 2.0).
Plus having no head leader means the "group" can do some pretty cool
things but on the other hand do the dumbest shit ever.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/sex-drugs-and-the-biggest-cybercrime-of-all-time-20101111
now that is some real hacks

From kris.browne at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 16:28:07 2011
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:28:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55C76ED9-E2C4-41E1-9BCA-9F387889F1E1@gmail.com>

Only partially true. OSX Server license allows virtuals using parallels server on top of OSX Server on Apple hardware. 



On Feb 24, 2011, at 15:33, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:19:43PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
> > He said he was a student, I just did not know what school he went to and
> > if they had academic discounts on Mac software.  I was pointing out that
> > the U of M does offer Mac OSX licenses for purchase.  In this case, I
> > was advocating the purchase of licensed software rather that downloading
> > something that had been posted to some server.
> 
> As far as I know, running OS X on hardware (or virtual machines) not
> explicitly sanctioned by Apple is against their terms of use.
> 
> Apple's license for OS X, last I checked, specifically forbids running in virtual environments.  
> 
> -Rob 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/290e2720/attachment.html>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Feb 24 16:30:03 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:30:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <55C76ED9-E2C4-41E1-9BCA-9F387889F1E1@gmail.com>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
	<55C76ED9-E2C4-41E1-9BCA-9F387889F1E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E39B644A-96CC-49C4-BB9E-5B50FB113F87@me.com>

That's not the end user license for the 'workstation' you can buy for $100.


On Feb 24, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Kristopher Browne wrote:

> Only partially true. OSX Server license allows virtuals using parallels server on top of OSX Server on Apple hardware. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 24, 2011, at 15:33, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:19:43PM -0500, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
>> > He said he was a student, I just did not know what school he went to and
>> > if they had academic discounts on Mac software.  I was pointing out that
>> > the U of M does offer Mac OSX licenses for purchase.  In this case, I
>> > was advocating the purchase of licensed software rather that downloading
>> > something that had been posted to some server.
>> 
>> As far as I know, running OS X on hardware (or virtual machines) not
>> explicitly sanctioned by Apple is against their terms of use.
>> 
>> Apple's license for OS X, last I checked, specifically forbids running in virtual environments.  
>> 
>> -Rob 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/3f496e15/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 16:35:07 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:35:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <55C76ED9-E2C4-41E1-9BCA-9F387889F1E1@gmail.com>
References: <703805330.3796228.1298578783831.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<20110224210610.GQ2313@styx.iucha.org>
	<AANLkTiksc8BZyjttURxxiYcWMBczi7QLp7jxGObtKf+6@mail.gmail.com>
	<55C76ED9-E2C4-41E1-9BCA-9F387889F1E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim8=tsgijWoqdv2F-HxoDV1UXFAXaw3fUr4XmnL@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Kristopher Browne <kris.browne at gmail.com>wrote:

> Only partially true. OSX Server license allows virtuals using parallels
> server on top of OSX Server on Apple hardware.
>

Minor nit - but I did say OS X, not OS X Server. :)  None-the-less, the
clarification is welcome and appreciated.  Thanks, Kris!


-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/0747804d/attachment.html>

From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 17:39:30 2011
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:39:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D66EC32.5090104@gmail.com>

I'm sure most of you know about it already, but I think everyone should
know:

http://xkcd.com/

http://xkcd.com/538/ - one of my personal favorites and one that anyone
who deals with cryptography should see

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 17:42:51 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:42:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <4D66EC32.5090104@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66EC32.5090104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikEDhpdPs44BUomqFzu7+_T3_nUZh2y6QvpP4vc@mail.gmail.com>

i am surprised this thread is so interesting.  i wasn't even sure i should
post the humor break, but i am glad i did.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm sure most of you know about it already, but I think everyone should
> know:
>
> http://xkcd.com/
>
> http://xkcd.com/538/ - one of my personal favorites and one that anyone
> who deals with cryptography should see
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/c442b091/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Feb 24 17:55:04 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:55:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikEDhpdPs44BUomqFzu7+_T3_nUZh2y6QvpP4vc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66EC32.5090104@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikEDhpdPs44BUomqFzu7+_T3_nUZh2y6QvpP4vc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=3vZKkThUFrp3YQeaKusqxgpjCiKDA2+X4jPMM@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:

> i am surprised this thread is so interesting.  i wasn't even sure i should
> post the humor break, but i am glad i did.
>
>
>
I'm glad you did too.  I'll chip in with one of my very favorite Dilberts.
:)

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2002-02-03/?CmtOrder=Rating&CmtDir=DESC

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110224/fdfc96f7/attachment-0001.html>

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Feb 24 23:35:08 2011
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:35:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Openbox WM@Penguins Unbound Meeting
	February 26, 2011
Message-ID: <4D673F8C.3030602@Goecke-Dolan.com>


This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday February 26th at TIES,
at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

At the Penguins Unbound Meeting this Saturday, Mark Katerberg has 
volunteered speak about the Openbox window manager (specifically, but 
not limited to [Openbox window manager running on] Crunchbang Linux).

I will also plan on having at least 30 minutes for questions.

Thanks.

Hope to see you there.

==>brian.

*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

I was able to connect to this stream with mplayer on Ubuntu 10.04, here
is the command I used:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

I have heard that this url,
http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
works with VLC. (Thanks Neal!)

From poptix at poptix.net  Fri Feb 25 07:56:43 2011
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 07:56:43 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free stuff
Message-ID: <1298642203.4172.195.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>

Howdy folks,

 I'm moving soon and need to get rid of the computer parts I've been
hoarding for a while. This is first come first served and I'd prefer you
just took it all, or at least a good bit of it!

 I can't promise it all works, but I'm good about tossing the things
that don't.

 Contact me *off-list* if you're interested and we'll arrange a pickup
or dropoff. If you're willing to drive over and take *all* of it (not
very bulky) I'll throw in a free Soekris 4511 embedded PC, with
appropriate miniPCI cards, and CompactFlash
( http://www.soekris.com/net4511.htm ) 


FREE:

(7) AGP video cards, ranging from a Trident 9660 to a GeForce 6800 GT

(5) PCI Network cards (3x 3com 905B-TX, 2x Dual-port-quad-capable Intel
100mbit cards)

(2) PCI multi-port firewire expansion cards

(4) Various disk controllers, including a 3ware 7500-4LP and a Promise
Ultra 100 TX2.

(8) Various PCI sound cards, Audigy2 ZS, Audigy, SB Live!, etc.

(??) Various PCI TV and raw AV tuners/encoders, some HD, some NTSC, 

(1) PCI WANic 600/800 QUAD T1/E1 Adapter

(8+) Various BreezeCom FHSS PCMCIA and stand-alone units, some other
wireless equipment of various brands

(??) Various modems, PCI/ISA PCMCIA slot adapters

(1) Axis 2100 Network Camera (runs linux!)

* misc. other stuff I'm too lazy to list. 




From poptix at poptix.net  Fri Feb 25 08:31:59 2011
From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 08:31:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free stuff
In-Reply-To: <1298642203.4172.195.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
References: <1298642203.4172.195.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>
Message-ID: <1298644319.4172.198.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net>

Gone within 15 minutes, thanks for the e-mails folks. 

On Fri, 2011-02-25 at 07:56 -0600, Matt Hallacy wrote:
> Howdy folks,
> 
>  I'm moving soon and need to get rid of the computer parts I've been
> hoarding for a while. This is first come first served and I'd prefer you
> just took it all, or at least a good bit of it!
> 
>  I can't promise it all works, but I'm good about tossing the things
> that don't.
> 
>  Contact me *off-list* if you're interested and we'll arrange a pickup
> or dropoff. If you're willing to drive over and take *all* of it (not
> very bulky) I'll throw in a free Soekris 4511 embedded PC, with
> appropriate miniPCI cards, and CompactFlash
> ( http://www.soekris.com/net4511.htm ) 
> 
> 
> FREE:
> 
> (7) AGP video cards, ranging from a Trident 9660 to a GeForce 6800 GT
> 
> (5) PCI Network cards (3x 3com 905B-TX, 2x Dual-port-quad-capable Intel
> 100mbit cards)
> 
> (2) PCI multi-port firewire expansion cards
> 
> (4) Various disk controllers, including a 3ware 7500-4LP and a Promise
> Ultra 100 TX2.
> 
> (8) Various PCI sound cards, Audigy2 ZS, Audigy, SB Live!, etc.
> 
> (??) Various PCI TV and raw AV tuners/encoders, some HD, some NTSC, 
> 
> (1) PCI WANic 600/800 QUAD T1/E1 Adapter
> 
> (8+) Various BreezeCom FHSS PCMCIA and stand-alone units, some other
> wireless equipment of various brands
> 
> (??) Various modems, PCI/ISA PCMCIA slot adapters
> 
> (1) Axis 2100 Network Camera (runs linux!)
> 
> * misc. other stuff I'm too lazy to list. 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Fri Feb 25 09:21:44 2011
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:21:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] FREE CRT computer monitor
Message-ID: <20110225092144.c061758a.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I will be at tomorrow's Penguins Unbound meeting.

I'm giving away my old Dell E550 CRT monitor.  It's 11 years old but still works, albeit somewhat darkly.  (You need an rgamma value of 1.9, a ggamma value of 1.5, and a bgamma value of 1.6 to correct for this.)

I'm also giving away worn-out Ethernet cables.  If you have the equipment to install Ethernet connectors on cables, this is the deal for you.  The connectors don't always firmly plug into devices anymore, so you'll want to replace them, but the rest of the material in the cables is still intact.  

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 25 09:25:28 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 15:25:28 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
Message-ID: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create users on the new  server ? 

Raymond 

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Fri Feb 25 09:29:13 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:29:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik7e1J_Kvj8pO9=PrO0WzY7Uj0ppbEFvh4a7mmu@mail.gmail.com>

should be possible; give us a markup of the format the email addresses
are in (e.g. <first>.<last>@something.org) also what type of system,
and what the usernames should be formatted as

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:25 AM,  <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create users on the new ?server ?
>
> Raymond
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Fri Feb 25 09:30:47 2011
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:30:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4D67CB27.5070305@beer.tclug.org>

On 02/25/2011 09:25 AM, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create users on the new  server ? 

 Something more advanced than...

sed -e 's/@.*$//' < file-of-email-addresses.txt | xargs useradd

 ...?  (Protip: Add "echo " in front of "useradd" to test.)

 YMMV on the actual command to add users.

     Jima

From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 25 09:30:39 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:30:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <C516E0E1-00AB-4545-98E5-A2A28029909F@me.com>

What's the OS? I know in FreeBSD you can build a user base from a ghost file and import from there, also you can batch users with the adduser command from a :-delimited file and then just re-import/re-create your management file for the mailserver.

Check adduser(8)


On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:25 AM, admin at lctn.org wrote:

> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create users on the new  server ? 
> 
> Raymond 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Feb 25 09:32:04 2011
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:32:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <C516E0E1-00AB-4545-98E5-A2A28029909F@me.com>
References: <1205334363-1298647609-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1265563174-@bda117.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<C516E0E1-00AB-4545-98E5-A2A28029909F@me.com>
Message-ID: <07C8A558-2B03-4181-A707-17BCA874D751@me.com>

http://linux.die.net/man/8/adduser


On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> What's the OS? I know in FreeBSD you can build a user base from a ghost file and import from there, also you can batch users with the adduser command from a :-delimited file and then just re-import/re-create your management file for the mailserver.
> 
> Check adduser(8)
> 
> 
> On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:25 AM, admin at lctn.org wrote:
> 
>> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create users on the new  server ? 
>> 
>> Raymond 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 25 09:45:49 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik7e1J_Kvj8pO9=PrO0WzY7Uj0ppbEFvh4a7mmu@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15913927.171298648749731.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>

The file they sent me has the first name and password: 

John, password 





----- "Nathan Caza" wrote: 
should be possible; give us a markup of the format the email addresses 
are in (e.g. <first>.<last>@something.org) also what type of system, 
and what the usernames should be formatted as 

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:25 AM, <admin at lctn.org> wrote: 
> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create users on the new server ? 
> 
> Raymond 
> _______________________________________________ 
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and 
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
believed to be clean. 



-- 
Raymond Norton 
LCTN 
Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110225/feb82d84/attachment.html>

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 25 10:01:35 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:01:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <2339824.231298649611833.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
Message-ID: <2300258.251298649695219.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>

Forgot to mention, this is on an Ubuntu 10.x server with postfix. 



----- "Nathan Caza" wrote: 
should be possible; give us a markup of the format the email addresses 
are in (e.g. <first>.<last>@something.org) also what type of system, 
and what the usernames should be formatted as 

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:25 AM, <admin at lctn.org> wrote: 
> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create users on the new server ? 
> 
> Raymond 
> _______________________________________________ 
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and 
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
believed to be clean. 



-- 
Raymond Norton 
LCTN 
Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110225/060b5f3f/attachment.html>

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Fri Feb 25 10:05:02 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:05:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <2300258.251298649695219.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
References: <2339824.231298649611833.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<2300258.251298649695219.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik-+jMu+Vn_7YHpqienKPCnNV1f=hR65yZuR=+k@mail.gmail.com>

give an example; fake names/usrnames/passwords for a few entries in the file

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> Forgot to mention, this is on an Ubuntu 10.x server with postfix.
>
>
>
> ----- "Nathan Caza" wrote:
> should be possible; give us a markup of the format the email addresses
> are in (e.g. <first>.<last>@something.org) also what type of system,
> and what the usernames should be formatted as
>
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:25 AM, ?<admin at lctn.org> wrote:
>> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed.
>> Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create
>> users on the new ?server ?
>>
>> Raymond
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
> --
> Raymond?Norton
> LCTN
> Ecclesiastes?7:21-22
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 25 10:07:41 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:07:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik-+jMu+Vn_7YHpqienKPCnNV1f=hR65yZuR=+k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19086078.281298650061894.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>

Here is a sample of the list (yes, it came from a record the tech was keeping of email passwords). 

fiecke,04f13cke 
heiraas,2qasw# 
ed houg,6$I$Tr$8 
johnson,j0hns0n 
kallenbach,RC68! 
crd klobe,jmc1862 
kramer,r2bydoo1 

----- "Nathan Caza" wrote: 
give an example; fake names/usrnames/passwords for a few entries in the file 

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote: 
> Forgot to mention, this is on an Ubuntu 10.x server with postfix. 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- "Nathan Caza" wrote: 
> should be possible; give us a markup of the format the email addresses 
> are in (e.g. <first>.<last>@something.org) also what type of system, 
> and what the usernames should be formatted as 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:25 AM, <admin at lctn.org> wrote: 
>> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed. 
>> Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create 
>> users on the new server ? 
>> 
>> Raymond 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and 
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
> believed to be clean. 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Raymond Norton 
> LCTN 
> Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and 
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is 
believed to be clean. 



-- 
Raymond Norton 
LCTN 
Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110225/ddc33a43/attachment.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Fri Feb 25 10:26:14 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:26:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Openbox WM@Penguins Unbound Meeting
 February 26, 2011
In-Reply-To: <4D673F8C.3030602@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <4D673F8C.3030602@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikF=PP=ybVcPxt1JuR4rQWKJdE5bw8xisH5UjB+@mail.gmail.com>

no way streaming.  now that is some top notch work.
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Brian <goeko at goecke-dolan.com> wrote:

>
> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
> Saturday February 26th at TIES,
> at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
> from 10:00am to 12:00pm
> (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
> info.)
>
> At the Penguins Unbound Meeting this Saturday, Mark Katerberg has
> volunteered speak about the Openbox window manager (specifically, but not
> limited to [Openbox window manager running on] Crunchbang Linux).
>
> I will also plan on having at least 30 minutes for questions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Hope to see you there.
>
> ==>brian.
>
> *** STREAMING ***
> If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
> mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
>
> I was able to connect to this stream with mplayer on Ubuntu 10.04, here
> is the command I used:
> mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
>
> I have heard that this url,
> http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
> works with VLC. (Thanks Neal!)
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110225/bd12aca9/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Feb 25 11:54:34 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:54:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=3vZKkThUFrp3YQeaKusqxgpjCiKDA2+X4jPMM@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66EC32.5090104@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikEDhpdPs44BUomqFzu7+_T3_nUZh2y6QvpP4vc@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=3vZKkThUFrp3YQeaKusqxgpjCiKDA2+X4jPMM@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102251153480.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011, Robert Nesius wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i am surprised this thread is so interesting.  i wasn't even sure i 
>> should post the humor break, but i am glad i did.
>
> I'm glad you did too.  I'll chip in with one of my very favorite 
> Dilberts. :)
>
> http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2002-02-03/?CmtOrder=Rating&CmtDir=DESC


PHB FTW!

MM

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Fri Feb 25 12:10:06 2011
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:10:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux IT consulting
Message-ID: <20110225121006.19fc8b89.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>

I'm interested in a career in Linux IT consulting at an IT consulting firm.  The type of work I have in mind includes helping companies and organizations migrate from Windows to Linux and helping startup companies and organizations get started using Linux instead of Windows.

In addition to the list of consultants on the Debian web site (which includes Nick Kukuczka at ORBIT Technologies, Open Source Business Group, Kyle Drake at IT Security Services, and others), is there a list of IT consulting firms?

In addition to Penguins Unbound, are there any other groups I should be meeting with?

I have used Linux on the desktop at home for the last 4 years.  I have experience with data recovery and prefer Puppy Linux for rescuing files from dying hard drives.  (For some reason, Puppy Linux has superior capability at reading files from bad drives.  Unlike PhotoRec, Puppy Linux recognizes the filenames and directory structure.)

I've set up a firewall and DHCP server on an old computer at home using a minimal command-line only installation of Debian Lenny.  I will set up additional servers (web server, mail server, print server, etc.) on this old computer.  I will also bone up on security measures and test my  own home network's security by trying to break into it from outside.

Is there anything else I should be learning about?  I understand that I cannot expect to learn everything I need to know on my own, but the more I can learn early on, the faster I can cut to the chase later.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From mjb at umn.edu  Fri Feb 25 12:16:34 2011
From: mjb at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:16:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux IT consulting
In-Reply-To: <20110225121006.19fc8b89.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20110225121006.19fc8b89.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <4D67F202.8030503@umn.edu>

On 2/25/2011 12:10 PM, Jason Hsu wrote:
> Is there anything else I should be learning about?

Get familiar with running common services only from the command line:
- maintain sshd
- setup web servers with all their common components (LAMP stack stuff)
- Understand how to secure and operate a sendmail or postfix mail server
- Basically learn to fully operate Linux machines remotely from the CLI,
and familiarize yourself with the software update mechanisms, filesystem
layouts, & config file locations on Debian & Red Hat (at least) derived
systems.

+++++++++++++++++
Michael Berkowski
Minitex  / MnLINK Linux Systems Administrator and Programmer
University of Minnesota
mjb at umn.edu
PGP Public key:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~berk0081/pgp/pubkey.asc
+++++++++++++++++


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 251 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110225/e36084b8/attachment.pgp>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Fri Feb 25 12:22:00 2011
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:22:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux IT consulting
In-Reply-To: <20110225121006.19fc8b89.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20110225121006.19fc8b89.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <1298658120.24967.48.camel@sysadmin3a>

On Fri, 2011-02-25 at 12:10 -0600, Jason Hsu wrote:
> I'm interested in a career in Linux IT consulting at an IT consulting firm.  The type of work I have in mind includes helping companies and organizations migrate from Windows to Linux and helping startup companies and organizations get started using Linux instead of Windows.
> 
> In addition to the list of consultants on the Debian web site (which includes Nick Kukuczka at ORBIT Technologies, Open Source Business Group, Kyle Drake at IT Security Services, and others), is there a list of IT consulting firms?
> 
> In addition to Penguins Unbound, are there any other groups I should be meeting with?
> 
> I have used Linux on the desktop at home for the last 4 years.  I have experience with data recovery and prefer Puppy Linux for rescuing files from dying hard drives.  (For some reason, Puppy Linux has superior capability at reading files from bad drives.  Unlike PhotoRec, Puppy Linux recognizes the filenames and directory structure.)
> 
> I've set up a firewall and DHCP server on an old computer at home using a minimal command-line only installation of Debian Lenny.  I will set up additional servers (web server, mail server, print server, etc.) on this old computer.  I will also bone up on security measures and test my  own home network's security by trying to break into it from outside.
> 
> Is there anything else I should be learning about?  I understand that I cannot expect to learn everything I need to know on my own, but the more I can learn early on, the faster I can cut to the chase later.
> 

I would recommend getting started with IPv6. It is not at a boiling
point yet but it would probably be a good bullet point for a list of
technologies you are familiar or comfortable with as it is going to be
getting more and more important in the coming months and years,
especially dealing with IPv6 hosts interacting with IPv4 hosts and vice
versa.

Additionally if you plan to do a lot of windows-to-linux type work I
would strongly advise you get very familiar with Active Directory and
Samba and all of the related components like kerberos, ldap, etc. 

Another would be get familiar with Exchange replacements. A lot of
smaller shops running windows use AD and Exchange. Bynari, Scalix,
Zimbra, etc all have some level of compatibility with Exchange and/or
Outlook feature sets.


From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 25 12:34:07 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:34:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik-+jMu+Vn_7YHpqienKPCnNV1f=hR65yZuR=+k@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2339824.231298649611833.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>	<2300258.251298649695219.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<AANLkTik-+jMu+Vn_7YHpqienKPCnNV1f=hR65yZuR=+k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D67F61F.1010900@lctn.org>

  Got it done with the following script:

#!/bin/bash
for i in `cat unpw.csv`; do
   UN=`echo $i | cut -f1 -d','`
   PW=`echo $i | cut -f2 -d','`
   ENCPW=`echo $PW | mkpasswd -s`
   echo useradd -p $ENCPW -m $UN
done

On 02/25/2011 10:05 AM, Nathan Caza wrote:
> give an example; fake names/usrnames/passwords for a few entries in the file
>
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Raymond Norton<admin at lctn.org>  wrote:
>> Forgot to mention, this is on an Ubuntu 10.x server with postfix.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- "Nathan Caza" wrote:
>> should be possible; give us a markup of the format the email addresses
>> are in (e.g.<first>.<last>@something.org) also what type of system,
>> and what the usernames should be formatted as
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:25 AM,<admin at lctn.org>  wrote:
>>> I'm helping a school set up a new email server after the old one crashed.
>>> Is there a script I can run against a text file of email addresses to create
>>> users on the new  server ?
>>>
>>> Raymond
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Raymond Norton
>> LCTN
>> Ecclesiastes 7:21-22
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Feb 25 13:02:03 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:02:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <19086078.281298650061894.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
References: <19086078.281298650061894.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102251158530.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Just saw that you already did it.  I'll try to finish this later, but for 
now it has some possibly useful info (e.g., attached script)...


On Fri, 25 Feb 2011, Raymond Norton wrote:

> Here is a sample of the list (yes, it came from a record the tech was keeping of email passwords).
>
> fiecke,04f13cke
> heiraas,2qasw#
> ed houg,6$I$Tr$8
> johnson,j0hns0n
> kallenbach,RC68!
> crd klobe,jmc1862
> kramer,r2bydoo1


I'll just mention up front that I prefer tab-delimited files to 
comma-delimited files for this purpose and for most other purposes.  I 
also think you would be much better off with more data (like real names 
for users) -- see below my comment on comments.

See the attached script for dealing with the passwords.  The useradd 
program (recommended by someone else in this thread) requires that the 
password be entered as an encrypted string, not the original password. 
The attached perl script will be used to encrypt the password.  Save it in 
your path and make it executable:

chmod 755 password_encrypt.pl

Suppose your list is stored in the file users.txt and suppose there is 
exactly one comma on every line and the usernames are to be the string son 
the left of the comma, but with spaces replaced by underscores, then you 
could do this:

(1) first test that the file format is correct:

awk -F',' '{print NF}' users.txt | uniq | wc -l

That should produce "1" as output, if the output is not "1" then your file 
has too many commas on one or more lines, probably because you have a 
password with a comma in it.

(2) next, if you passed test 1, test that the usernames are unique:

cut -d',' -f1 users.txt | tr ' ' '_' | sort | uniq -c | awk '{print $1}' | sort -n | tail -1

That also should produce "1" as output.  If you get a number greater than 
one, then not all of your usernames are unique.

(3) if you passed tests 1 and 2, you also want to know that the usernames 
you are adding are not identical to any that already exist in 
/etc/password, so do this:

( cut -d',' -f1 users.txt | tr ' ' '_' ; cut -d':' -f1 /etc/passwd ) | sort | uniq -c | awk '{print $1}' | sort -n | tail -1

That also should produce "1" as output.  If you get a number greater than 
one, then at least one of your new usernames is identical to one already 
in /etc/passwd.

(4) If you passed tests 1 through 3, then you'll want to transform the 
users.txt file into a little script for adding the users.  It would be 
better if you had more information for the comment field -- like their 
actual names -- but you do what you can with what you've got.  I like a 
comment that contains "First Last <email at external.site>".

You need to choose a group ID and an initial user ID, maybe "1000" we can 
then make the nth user have UID equal to initial_UID+n.  I'll hardcode 
that initial UID number as 1000 here, and I'll hardcode the GID as 100, 
but you can change them:

echo -e "#!/bin/bash\n" > make_users.bash
chmod 700 make_users.bash


NOT DONE YET...

awk -F',' '{print "useradd -u "1000+NR" -g 100 -s /bin/bash -p $(password_encrypt.pl \042"
$2"
PASSWORD SALT) USERNAME

#' users.txt >> make_users.bash

Read the script, and if it looks good, run this:

sudo ./make_users.bash
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: password_encrypt.pl
Type: text/x-perl
Size: 669 bytes
Desc: 
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110225/28e3c743/attachment.pl>

From admin at lctn.org  Fri Feb 25 13:04:44 2011
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:04:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102251158530.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <19086078.281298650061894.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102251158530.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4D67FD4C.7060206@lctn.org>

  Thank you




On 02/25/2011 01:02 PM, Mike Miller wrote:
> Just saw that you already did it.  I'll try to finish this later, but 
> for now it has some possibly useful info (e.g., attached script)...
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Feb 2011, Raymond Norton wrote:
>
>> Here is a sample of the list (yes, it came from a record the tech was 
>> keeping of email passwords).
>>
>> fiecke,04f13cke
>> heiraas,2qasw#
>> ed houg,6$I$Tr$8
>> johnson,j0hns0n
>> kallenbach,RC68!
>> crd klobe,jmc1862
>> kramer,r2bydoo1
>
>
> I'll just mention up front that I prefer tab-delimited files to 
> comma-delimited files for this purpose and for most other purposes.  I 
> also think you would be much better off with more data (like real 
> names for users) -- see below my comment on comments.
>
> See the attached script for dealing with the passwords.  The useradd 
> program (recommended by someone else in this thread) requires that the 
> password be entered as an encrypted string, not the original password. 
> The attached perl script will be used to encrypt the password.  Save 
> it in your path and make it executable:
>
> chmod 755 password_encrypt.pl
>
> Suppose your list is stored in the file users.txt and suppose there is 
> exactly one comma on every line and the usernames are to be the string 
> son the left of the comma, but with spaces replaced by underscores, 
> then you could do this:
>
> (1) first test that the file format is correct:
>
> awk -F',' '{print NF}' users.txt | uniq | wc -l
>
> That should produce "1" as output, if the output is not "1" then your 
> file has too many commas on one or more lines, probably because you 
> have a password with a comma in it.
>
> (2) next, if you passed test 1, test that the usernames are unique:
>
> cut -d',' -f1 users.txt | tr ' ' '_' | sort | uniq -c | awk '{print 
> $1}' | sort -n | tail -1
>
> That also should produce "1" as output.  If you get a number greater 
> than one, then not all of your usernames are unique.
>
> (3) if you passed tests 1 and 2, you also want to know that the 
> usernames you are adding are not identical to any that already exist 
> in /etc/password, so do this:
>
> ( cut -d',' -f1 users.txt | tr ' ' '_' ; cut -d':' -f1 /etc/passwd ) | 
> sort | uniq -c | awk '{print $1}' | sort -n | tail -1
>
> That also should produce "1" as output.  If you get a number greater 
> than one, then at least one of your new usernames is identical to one 
> already in /etc/passwd.
>
> (4) If you passed tests 1 through 3, then you'll want to transform the 
> users.txt file into a little script for adding the users.  It would be 
> better if you had more information for the comment field -- like their 
> actual names -- but you do what you can with what you've got.  I like 
> a comment that contains "First Last <email at external.site>".
>
> You need to choose a group ID and an initial user ID, maybe "1000" we 
> can then make the nth user have UID equal to initial_UID+n.  I'll 
> hardcode that initial UID number as 1000 here, and I'll hardcode the 
> GID as 100, but you can change them:
>
> echo -e "#!/bin/bash\n" > make_users.bash
> chmod 700 make_users.bash
>
>
> NOT DONE YET...
>
> awk -F',' '{print "useradd -u "1000+NR" -g 100 -s /bin/bash -p 
> $(password_encrypt.pl \042"
> $2"
> PASSWORD SALT) USERNAME
>
> #' users.txt >> make_users.bash
>
> Read the script, and if it looks good, run this:
>
> sudo ./make_users.bash
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110225/d2c1ac75/attachment-0001.html>

From mastercactapus at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 00:20:24 2011
From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:20:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Openbox WM@Penguins Unbound Meeting
 February 26, 2011
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikF=PP=ybVcPxt1JuR4rQWKJdE5bw8xisH5UjB+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D673F8C.3030602@Goecke-Dolan.com>
	<AANLkTikF=PP=ybVcPxt1JuR4rQWKJdE5bw8xisH5UjB+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Oq8J1vxN3+R45kHnLwCSLRGUx7fxHPLHjYr7y@mail.gmail.com>

wont be able to watch; going to be at work; guess ill set a cron job
on the old server box ill catch it when i get home :D

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
> no way streaming.? now that is some top notch work.
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Brian <goeko at goecke-dolan.com> wrote:
>>
>> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
>> Saturday February 26th at TIES,
>> at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
>> from 10:00am to 12:00pm
>> (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
>> info.)
>>
>> At the Penguins Unbound Meeting this Saturday, Mark Katerberg has
>> volunteered speak about the Openbox window manager (specifically, but not
>> limited to [Openbox window manager running on] Crunchbang Linux).
>>
>> I will also plan on having at least 30 minutes for questions.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Hope to see you there.
>>
>> ==>brian.
>>
>> *** STREAMING ***
>> If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
>> mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
>>
>> I was able to connect to this stream with mplayer on Ubuntu 10.04, here
>> is the command I used:
>> mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
>>
>> I have heard that this url,
>> http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
>> works with VLC. (Thanks Neal!)
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 01:05:22 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 01:05:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <4D67F61F.1010900@lctn.org>
References: <2339824.231298649611833.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<2300258.251298649695219.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<AANLkTik-+jMu+Vn_7YHpqienKPCnNV1f=hR65yZuR=+k@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D67F61F.1010900@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102260017070.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 25 Feb 2011, Raymond Norton wrote:

> Got it done with the following script:
>
> #!/bin/bash
> for i in `cat unpw.csv`; do
>  UN=`echo $i | cut -f1 -d','`
>  PW=`echo $i | cut -f2 -d','`
>  ENCPW=`echo $PW | mkpasswd -s`
>  echo useradd -p $ENCPW -m $UN
> done


Thanks for posting this.  I didn't know about mkpasswd.  It seems to do 
what my perl script did, only better.  I guess I don't need that perl 
script anymore.  You didn't use a salt, though, and I wonder if that's OK. 
I also wonder how people usually generate salts.

Here I just made up a slant and compare my perl script with mkpasswd:

$ ( password_encrypt.pl pass_test '$6$RFQYCw9b$' ; mkpasswd --salt=RFQYCw9b --method=sha-512 pass_test ) | uniq
$6$RFQYCw9b$9wgEGg9ODG9aBFEp1vHsuufRfH2nPJ/ml88xPxMqr1C8qdW2uncIWOOj7zEoJWHHaHF8SdOvGtFs/kAYX0Glj1

They give identical output.  Note that the salt for my script includes the 
method as $6$ and it ends with another dollar sign, but mkpasswd leaves 
off the method and final dollar sign in the salt input, but it adds them 
for the output string.  That method makes sense to me, but they both work.


A tip on Bash scripting:

The Bash development team has deprecated backtick command substitution in 
favor of the $(...) sytax.  So your script could be written like this:

for i in $(at unpw.csv); do
   UN=$(echo $i | cut -f1 -d',')
   PW=$(echo $i | cut -f2 -d',')
   ENCPW=$(echo $PW | mkpasswd -s)
   echo useradd -p $ENCPW -m $UN
done

I found it easy to learn to like that syntax because we can nest the 
$(...) command substitutions.  More:

http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/082

But it looks like you can get away with this:

for i in $(at unpw.csv); do
   UN=$(echo $i | cut -f1 -d',')
   ENCPW=$(echo $i | cut -f2 -d',' | mkpasswd -s)
   echo useradd -p $ENCPW -m $UN
done


Best,
Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 10:53:25 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 10:53:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Script help
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102260017070.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <2339824.231298649611833.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<2300258.251298649695219.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org>
	<AANLkTik-+jMu+Vn_7YHpqienKPCnNV1f=hR65yZuR=+k@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D67F61F.1010900@lctn.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102260017070.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=wPaQo-9C1ZVuEePskNpjx7QQ5eHbFh=RMNb1L@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> A tip on Bash scripting:
>
> The Bash development team has deprecated backtick command substitution in
> favor of the $(...) sytax.  So your script could be written like this:
>
>
Didn't know that ... thanks for sharing.  I've always hated that back-quote
notation.

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/53efcd8e/attachment.html>

From jeremy at lizakowski.com  Thu Feb 24 18:47:15 2011
From: jeremy at lizakowski.com (jeremy at lizakowski.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 00:47:15 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost><AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com><4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com><AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

>i am in conflict about c c++ or java.? no languages
> taught yet.? still starting out.

languages:  its easiest to start with a language that is flexible.  php, ruby, python, and javascript are decent choices.  you can be writing programs in minutes.

Java is great to know, but usually better suited for big or well-defined projects.  Very formal and organized.  Used for android mobile development.

C++ is low level, and better suited for things close to hardware (writing hardware drivers etc).  It can be remarkably difficult to debug.

There's also the newer languages, like erlang, scala, etc.  There's always something new to learn.

Jeremy



Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:22:10 
To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] mac

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From samael.anon at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 15:42:16 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:42:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>

i threw python idle on my puter again.  going to start there.  this is the
best description i have seen.  i bought learn java in 21 days about 7 years
ago.   i didn't quite stick that one out.  bye bye 50 bucks.  appreciate the
insight on c++.  i intend on learning c++, java, and perl eventually as i
see they are in the curriculum for the u of m's comp science degree.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 6:47 PM, <jeremy at lizakowski.com> wrote:

> >i am in conflict about c c++ or java.  no languages
> > taught yet.  still starting out.
>
> languages:  its easiest to start with a language that is flexible.  php,
> ruby, python, and javascript are decent choices.  you can be writing
> programs in minutes.
>
> Java is great to know, but usually better suited for big or well-defined
> projects.  Very formal and organized.  Used for android mobile development.
>
> C++ is low level, and better suited for things close to hardware (writing
> hardware drivers etc).  It can be remarkably difficult to debug.
>
> There's also the newer languages, like erlang, scala, etc.  There's always
> something new to learn.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com>
> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:22:10
> To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] mac
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/2972bb8d/attachment.html>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 15:48:48 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:48:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D697540.1070906@gmail.com>

On 02/26/2011 03:42 PM, Samael wrote:
> i threw python idle on my puter again.  going to start there. 

DreamPie is an excellent interpreter for testing snippets and ideas. Its
history/editor pane feature is a great benefit when interactively
testing functions. It allows multi-line entries to be edited rather than
line by line like a standard Python shell.
-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/33c48e21/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/33c48e21/attachment-0001.png>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 15:53:24 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:53:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <4D697540.1070906@gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D697540.1070906@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimGUArQzxZ78xmf3Wz8wUHzWeJO2bgydW8owq_D@mail.gmail.com>

ok

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On 02/26/2011 03:42 PM, Samael wrote:
>
> i threw python idle on my puter again.  going to start there.
>
>
> DreamPie is an excellent interpreter for testing snippets and ideas. Its
> history/editor pane feature is a great benefit when interactively testing
> functions. It allows multi-line entries to be edited rather than line by
> line like a standard Python shell.
>
> --
> Patrick "Finn" Robins
> *Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter
> and those who matter don't mind.
> - Dr. Seuss*
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/1e80de90/attachment.html>

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 16:35:55 2011
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 16:35:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
Message-ID: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>

>i am in conflict about c c++ or java.? no languages
> taught yet.? still starting out.

I would pick C++ for a number of reasons.  C++ tends to
perform at least as well as C and sometimes better and it
usually defeats Java -- http://quicklz.com/ .   Java is somewhat
rigid when it comes to the development process.  Once a class
is started, it has to be completed in the same file.  C++ doesn't
require that and from a code generation standpoint that's helpful
in terms of being able to keep hand-written and computer-written
code in separate files.  So in my view Java is not friendly toward
small, creative upstarts.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/048d190a/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 20:13:48 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:13:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>



On Feb 26, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> >i am in conflict about c c++ or java.? no languages
> > taught yet.? still starting out.
> 
> I would pick C++ for a number of reasons.  C++ tends to
> perform at least as well as C and sometimes better and it
> usually defeats Java -- http://quicklz.com/ .   Java is somewhat
> rigid when it comes to the development process. 

They are both statically typed languages, with all of the associated inconvenience.  

> Once a class 
> is started, it has to be completed in the same file. 

I think that's a good development practice.  

> C++ doesn't
> require that and from a code generation standpoint that's helpful
> in terms of being able to keep hand-written and computer-written 
> code in separate files. 

...wha?

> So in my view Java is not friendly toward small, creative upstarts

Not sure I'd say c++ is friendlier. 

-Rob

> 
> -- 
> Brian Wood
> Ebenezer Enterprises
> http://webEbenezer.net
> (651) 251-9384
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/5daf7aaa/attachment.html>

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 20:18:10 2011
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:18:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>

Samael,
Don't worry too much about which language you're starting with. With
that said, Python is a good place to start. Lower level languages like
C and C++ are going to force you to deal with things like types and
memory management that you don't really need to worry about when
you're starting out programming.

One thing I'd suggest looking into is Project Euler. It provides a
great set of computation problems to work through, and you can do it
in any language you like. Having real programming problems to work on
helps because you're not paying as much attention to the language as
you are figuring out how to solve the problem at hand.

http://projecteuler.net/

Good luck.

-Erik

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
> i threw python idle on my puter again.? going to start there.? this is the
> best description i have seen.? i bought learn java in 21 days about 7 years
> ago. ? i didn't quite stick that one out.? bye bye 50 bucks.? appreciate the
> insight on c++.? i intend on learning c++, java, and perl eventually as i
> see they are in the curriculum for the u of m's comp science degree.
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 6:47 PM, <jeremy at lizakowski.com> wrote:
>>
>> >i am in conflict about c c++ or java.? no languages
>> > taught yet.? still starting out.
>>
>> languages: ?its easiest to start with a language that is flexible. ?php,
>> ruby, python, and javascript are decent choices. ?you can be writing
>> programs in minutes.
>>
>> Java is great to know, but usually better suited for big or well-defined
>> projects. ?Very formal and organized. ?Used for android mobile development.
>>
>> C++ is low level, and better suited for things close to hardware (writing
>> hardware drivers etc). ?It can be remarkably difficult to debug.
>>
>> There's also the newer languages, like erlang, scala, etc. ?There's always
>> something new to learn.
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com>
>> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:22:10
>> To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] mac
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
erik at ekmitchell.com
http://ekmitchell.com/

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 20:21:17 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:21:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>
	<B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimsPC7N_-26MW7NEbZW2t2VsgbC7PFzWpshQj+C@mail.gmail.com>

i have read some of the old theads on programming languages, but let the
information flow. dreampie seems pretty cool.  i am brainlocked on what i
should do as a startup project.

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 26, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >i am in conflict about c c++ or java.? no languages
> > taught yet.? still starting out.
>
> I would pick C++ for a number of reasons.  C++ tends to
> perform at least as well as C and sometimes better and it
> usually defeats Java -- <http://quicklz.com/>http://quicklz.com/ .   Java
> is somewhat
> rigid when it comes to the development process.
>
>
> They are both statically typed languages, with all of the associated
> inconvenience.
>
>
> Once a class
> is started, it has to be completed in the same file.
>
>
> I think that's a good development practice.
>
> C++ doesn't
> require that and from a code generation standpoint that's helpful
> in terms of being able to keep hand-written and computer-written
> code in separate files.
>
>
> ...wha?
>
> So in my view Java is not friendly toward small, creative upstarts
>
>
> Not sure I'd say c++ is friendlier.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> --
> Brian Wood
> Ebenezer Enterprises
> <http://webEbenezer.net>http://webEbenezer.net
> (651) 251-9384
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/871d0d24/attachment-0001.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 20:25:29 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:25:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikPo4wF3ttV-Oc+AdtwycFTa=zccK94TMSEQM=u@mail.gmail.com>

>One thing I'd suggest looking into is Project Euler. It provides a
great set of computation problems to work through

you beat me to it.  sound like what i was looking for. One thing I'd suggest
looking into is Project Euler. It provides a
great set of computation problems to work through

 on a side note, a really off topic side note, does anyone else have google
malaysia as their homepage.  i set my home page as
http://www.google.com/and it still come up google malaysia.

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> Samael,
> Don't worry too much about which language you're starting with. With
> that said, Python is a good place to start. Lower level languages like
> C and C++ are going to force you to deal with things like types and
> memory management that you don't really need to worry about when
> you're starting out programming.
>
> One thing I'd suggest looking into is Project Euler. It provides a
> great set of computation problems to work through, and you can do it
> in any language you like. Having real programming problems to work on
> helps because you're not paying as much attention to the language as
> you are figuring out how to solve the problem at hand.
>
> http://projecteuler.net/
>
> Good luck.
>
> -Erik
>
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:
> > i threw python idle on my puter again.  going to start there.  this is
> the
> > best description i have seen.  i bought learn java in 21 days about 7
> years
> > ago.   i didn't quite stick that one out.  bye bye 50 bucks.  appreciate
> the
> > insight on c++.  i intend on learning c++, java, and perl eventually as i
> > see they are in the curriculum for the u of m's comp science degree.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 6:47 PM, <jeremy at lizakowski.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >i am in conflict about c c++ or java.  no languages
> >> > taught yet.  still starting out.
> >>
> >> languages:  its easiest to start with a language that is flexible.  php,
> >> ruby, python, and javascript are decent choices.  you can be writing
> >> programs in minutes.
> >>
> >> Java is great to know, but usually better suited for big or well-defined
> >> projects.  Very formal and organized.  Used for android mobile
> development.
> >>
> >> C++ is low level, and better suited for things close to hardware
> (writing
> >> hardware drivers etc).  It can be remarkably difficult to debug.
> >>
> >> There's also the newer languages, like erlang, scala, etc.  There's
> always
> >> something new to learn.
> >>
> >> Jeremy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Samael <samael.anon at gmail.com>
> >> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> >> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:22:10
> >> To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >> Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] mac
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> erik at ekmitchell.com
> http://ekmitchell.com/
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/1c9fc9e5/attachment.html>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 21:02:38 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:02:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>
	<B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D69BECE.9010000@gmail.com>

On 02/26/2011 08:13 PM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com
> <mailto:woodbrian77 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> >i am in conflict about c c++ or java.? no languages
>> > taught yet.? still starting out.
>>
>> I would pick C++ for a number of reasons.  C++ tends to
>> perform at least as well as C and sometimes better and it
>> usually defeats Java -- http://quicklz.com/ .   Java is somewhat
>> rigid when it comes to the development process. 
>
> They are both statically typed languages, with all of the associated
> inconvenience. 
I am inclined to agree with Rob, just started taking Java in college and
find it to have very restrictive patterns. Mind you most of my
experience is in Python and C. Every time I begin coding in Java it
reinforces my preference for Python. YMMV
>
>> Once a class
>> is started, it has to be completed in the same file. 
>
> I think that's a good development practice.
Agreed.
>  
>
>> C++ doesn't
>> require that and from a code generation standpoint that's helpful
>> in terms of being able to keep hand-written and computer-written
>> code in separate files. 
>
> ...wha?
>
>> So in my view Java is not friendly toward small, creative upstarts
>
> Not sure I'd say c++ is friendlier.
Please clarify small creative upstarts. In terms of individual, smaller
projects I find Python very effective and if you need to run on a Java
vm there is always Jython. IMHO C++ is no friendlier than C and is often
more complex.
>
> -Rob
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Brian Wood
>> Ebenezer Enterprises
>> http://webEbenezer.net
>> (651) 251-9384

-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/3d6af5fc/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/3d6af5fc/attachment-0001.png>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 21:05:38 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:05:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimsPC7N_-26MW7NEbZW2t2VsgbC7PFzWpshQj+C@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>	<B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimsPC7N_-26MW7NEbZW2t2VsgbC7PFzWpshQj+C@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D69BF82.602@gmail.com>

On 02/26/2011 08:21 PM, Samael wrote:
> i have read some of the old theads on programming languages, but let
> the information flow. dreampie seems pretty cool.  i am brainlocked on
> what i should do as a startup project.

The Python Challenge <http://www.pythonchallenge.com/> is an excellent
way to stretch the mental muscles and work on Python at the same time.


-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/e79b77cc/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/e79b77cc/attachment.png>

From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 22:04:25 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:04:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <4D69BF82.602@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>
	<B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimsPC7N_-26MW7NEbZW2t2VsgbC7PFzWpshQj+C@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D69BF82.602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <648F4251-4994-40D4-B066-B71167E1F7F4@gmail.com>



On Feb 26, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 02/26/2011 08:21 PM, Samael wrote:
>> 
>> i have read some of the old theads on programming languages, but let the information flow. dreampie seems pretty cool.  i am brainlocked on what i should do as a startup project.
> 
> The Python Challenge is an excellent way to stretch the mental muscles and work on Python at the same time.
> 
> 

http://projecteuler.net/

Have fun.  :-)

-Rob

> -- 
> Patrick "Finn" Robins 
> Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
> - Dr. Seuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/98c6229e/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 22:22:38 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:22:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <648F4251-4994-40D4-B066-B71167E1F7F4@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>
	<B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimsPC7N_-26MW7NEbZW2t2VsgbC7PFzWpshQj+C@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D69BF82.602@gmail.com>
	<648F4251-4994-40D4-B066-B71167E1F7F4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimhDLe+VEeHv1tdbRkjeeW3CHZpq4kt0z=gAwtR@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 26, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 02/26/2011 08:21 PM, Samael wrote:
>
> i have read some of the old theads on programming languages, but let the
> information flow. dreampie seems pretty cool.  i am brainlocked on what i
> should do as a startup project.
>
>
> The Python Challenge <http://www.pythonchallenge.com/> is an excellent way
> to stretch the mental muscles and work on Python at the same time.
>
>
>
> http://projecteuler.net/
>
> Have fun.  :-)
>
> -Rob
>
>
I didn't notice from my iPhone that this had been recommended twice over
already.  Very cool we have some Project Euler fans.  Um - I'm not very far
into them myself - I did the first few and then haven't circled back to work
on more.  Just curious how far along some of you are. :)

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/1331e09f/attachment-0001.html>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 23:22:24 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 23:22:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimhDLe+VEeHv1tdbRkjeeW3CHZpq4kt0z=gAwtR@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>	<B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>	<AANLkTimsPC7N_-26MW7NEbZW2t2VsgbC7PFzWpshQj+C@mail.gmail.com>	<4D69BF82.602@gmail.com>	<648F4251-4994-40D4-B066-B71167E1F7F4@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhDLe+VEeHv1tdbRkjeeW3CHZpq4kt0z=gAwtR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D69DF90.9040400@gmail.com>

On 02/26/2011 10:22 PM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com
> <mailto:nesius at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On Feb 26, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com
>     <mailto:13.finn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>     On 02/26/2011 08:21 PM, Samael wrote:
>>>     i have read some of the old theads on programming languages, but
>>>     let the information flow. dreampie seems pretty cool.  i am
>>>     brainlocked on what i should do as a startup project.
>>
>>     The Python Challenge <http://www.pythonchallenge.com/> is an
>>     excellent way to stretch the mental muscles and work on Python at
>>     the same time.
>>
>>
>
>     http://projecteuler.net/
>
>     Have fun.  :-)
>
>     -Rob
>
>
> I didn't notice from my iPhone that this had been recommended twice
> over already.  Very cool we have some Project Euler fans.  Um - I'm
> not very far into them myself - I did the first few and then haven't
> circled back to work on more.  Just curious how far along some of you
> are. :)
>
> -Rob
Not very, I've been too busy to really work on them. In fact it's been
long enough that I cas.t actually remember where I am at on it. that's
embarrassing. :^}
>  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/99043d84/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/99043d84/attachment.png>

From nesius at gmail.com  Sat Feb 26 23:40:09 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 23:40:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <4D69DF90.9040400@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimeqx3Uy06oACSM0s2740DPTF=-DUfQtW2nBbFU@mail.gmail.com>
	<B541083F-7F6A-45B1-8402-4ABC13639CA2@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimsPC7N_-26MW7NEbZW2t2VsgbC7PFzWpshQj+C@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D69BF82.602@gmail.com>
	<648F4251-4994-40D4-B066-B71167E1F7F4@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhDLe+VEeHv1tdbRkjeeW3CHZpq4kt0z=gAwtR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D69DF90.9040400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=XKiC9_zGTC3XHUiy2h9PrVOUJL2hMMnyV1tGO@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Patrick Robins <13.finn at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On 02/26/2011 10:22 PM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>
>
> I didn't notice from my iPhone that this had been recommended twice over
> already.  Very cool we have some Project Euler fans.  Um - I'm not very far
> into them myself - I did the first few and then haven't circled back to work
> on more.  Just curious how far along some of you are. :)
>
> -Rob
>
> Not very, I've been too busy to really work on them. In fact it's been long
> enough that I cas.t actually remember where I am at on it. that's
> embarrassing. :^}
>
>
If you registered they keep track of which ones you solved. :)

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110226/7ce4f2ee/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Feb 27 03:08:23 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 03:08:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011, Erik Mitchell wrote:

> One thing I'd suggest looking into is Project Euler. It provides a great 
> set of computation problems to work through, and you can do it in any 
> language you like. Having real programming problems to work on helps 
> because you're not paying as much attention to the language as you are 
> figuring out how to solve the problem at hand.
>
> http://projecteuler.net/


Fun.  Never heard of it.  I'll do some using GNU commands from the bash 
prompt.  Let me know if you have ways of making these better (e.g., 
shorter or faster).


Here's my effort on Problem #1, using only GNU utils on the Bash command 
line:

seq 999 | awk '$1%5==0 || $1%3==0 {s+=$1}{print s}' | tail -1

I like to do lots of math/stats in GNU R or GNU Octave, both great 
programs, but I also do a lot of things on the Bash command line because 
it is very quick and efficient, once you've learned the tricks.  It took 
me many years to get good enough, a little at a time.  I'm sure one good 
course would do it, but I never had one.


Here's my GNU/bash answer to Problem #2:

( x=1 ; y=1 ; while [ $y -lt 4000000 ] ; do z=$y ; let y=$x+$z ; x=$z ; echo $z ; done ) | awk '$1%2==0 {s+=$1}{print s}' | tail -1


Here's my answer to Problem #3:

( x=600851475143 ; max_fac=10000 ; while [ $x -gt 1 ] ; do i=$(seq 2 $max_fac | awk -v x=$x 'x%$1==0' | head -1) ; echo $i ; let x=$x/$i ; done ) | tail -1

I did it first with a larger value of max_fac, but that slows it way down.

This will print the prime factors of the number "x" in order, as long as 
all of them are less than max_fac, but keep max_fac small because larger 
max_fac slows it down:

x=600851475143 ; max_fac=10000 ; while [ $x -gt 1 ] ; do i=$(seq 2 $max_fac | awk -v x=$x 'x%$1==0' | head -1) ; echo $i ; let x=$x/$i ; done

With a double while-loop and no max_fac, it is slow on the larger factors:

x=600851475143 ; while [ $x -gt 1 ] ; do f=2 ; while [ $(echo $f | awk -v x=$x '{print x%$1}') -gt 0 ] ; do let f=$f+1 ; done ; echo $f ; let x=$x/$f ; done


Another GNU/bash answer, this for Problem #4:

( for i in $(seq 100 999) ; do for j in $(seq 100 $i) ; do let k=$i*$j ; echo $k ; echo $k | rev ; done ; done ) | uniq -c | awk '$1 > 1' | cut -c9- | sort -n | tail -1

It isn't very efficient, though.  It took 13 minutes on my machine.  I 
could have taken a shortcut by guessing that the answer would involve 
larger numbers.  This gives the same answer in 23 seconds:

( for i in $(seq 901 999) ; do for j in $(seq 901 $i) ; do let k=$i*$j ; echo $k ; echo $k | rev ; done ; done ) | uniq -c | awk '$1 > 1' | cut -c9- | sort -n | tail -1

I did use "rev" which could be considered cheating.  It can be written in 
pure internal bash but that is awkward and a bit long.


This is my answer for Problem #5:

let x=2*3*2*5*7*2*3*11*13*2*17*19 ; echo $x

It's just too easy to do it that way.  If they wanted something bigger, 
maybe I'd program the algorithm.


Problem #6:

seq 100 | awk '{s+=$1}{s2+=$1^2}{print s^2-s2}' | tail -1


Must sleep...


Mike

From bhurt at spnz.org  Sun Feb 27 08:17:55 2011
From: bhurt at spnz.org (Brian Hurt)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 09:17:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [tclug-list] humor break
In-Reply-To: <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
References: <AANLkTimuaLS379Lb9aU-hXt4QDoGU6R5i5fecpWQPabq@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D64464C.6010503@gmail.com> <20110222215438.37b17a32@prokofiev>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102270915590.7021@sergyar>


My contribution, for when you think *you're* having a bad day:
http://www.hactrn.net/sra/vaxen.html

(For you young whippersnappers who weren't born yet back when MTV played 
music videos, here's a link to help you understand the last para:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_%281987%29
Now, get off my lawn)

Brian

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011, Josh Trutwin wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:27:08 -0600
> Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/index.php
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/
>> Anyone who knows how to use a computer properly should know about
>> BOFH. Best read in order starting with the prehistory and the first
>> articles from 1995. There are year pages on The Register's site up
>> to 2007. The rest are just in reverse chronological order.
>
> Ah yes, great links - and also highly recommended for anyone that
> works with id10t's:
>
> http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com (start with episode 1)
>
> "You can't arrange em by p3nis!"
>
> And when those are over there's always this gem:
>
> http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/
>
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Sun Feb 27 10:56:37 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 10:56:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4D6A8245.1040001@gmail.com>

On 02/27/2011 03:08 AM, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2011, Erik Mitchell wrote:
>
>> One thing I'd suggest looking into is Project Euler. It provides a
>> great set of computation problems to work through, and you can do it
>> in any language you like. Having real programming problems to work on
>> helps because you're not paying as much attention to the language as
>> you are figuring out how to solve the problem at hand.
>>
>> http://projecteuler.net/
>
>
> Fun.  Never heard of it.  I'll do some using GNU commands from the
> bash prompt.  Let me know if you have ways of making these better
> (e.g., shorter or faster).
>
>
> Here's my effort on Problem #1, using only GNU utils on the Bash
> command line:
>
> seq 999 | awk '$1%5==0 || $1%3==0 {s+=$1}{print s}' | tail -1
>
> I like to do lots of math/stats in GNU R or GNU Octave, both great
> programs, but I also do a lot of things on the Bash command line
> because it is very quick and efficient, once you've learned the
> tricks.  It took me many years to get good enough, a little at a
> time.  I'm sure one good course would do it, but I never had one.
>
>
> Here's my GNU/bash answer to Problem #2:
>
> ( x=1 ; y=1 ; while [ $y -lt 4000000 ] ; do z=$y ; let y=$x+$z ; x=$z
> ; echo $z ; done ) | awk '$1%2==0 {s+=$1}{print s}' | tail -1
>
>
> Here's my answer to Problem #3:
>
> ( x=600851475143 ; max_fac=10000 ; while [ $x -gt 1 ] ; do i=$(seq 2
> $max_fac | awk -v x=$x 'x%$1==0' | head -1) ; echo $i ; let x=$x/$i ;
> done ) | tail -1
>
> I did it first with a larger value of max_fac, but that slows it way
> down.
>
> This will print the prime factors of the number "x" in order, as long
> as all of them are less than max_fac, but keep max_fac small because
> larger max_fac slows it down:
>
> x=600851475143 ; max_fac=10000 ; while [ $x -gt 1 ] ; do i=$(seq 2
> $max_fac | awk -v x=$x 'x%$1==0' | head -1) ; echo $i ; let x=$x/$i ;
> done
>
> With a double while-loop and no max_fac, it is slow on the larger
> factors:
>
> x=600851475143 ; while [ $x -gt 1 ] ; do f=2 ; while [ $(echo $f | awk
> -v x=$x '{print x%$1}') -gt 0 ] ; do let f=$f+1 ; done ; echo $f ; let
> x=$x/$f ; done
>
>
> Another GNU/bash answer, this for Problem #4:
>
> ( for i in $(seq 100 999) ; do for j in $(seq 100 $i) ; do let k=$i*$j
> ; echo $k ; echo $k | rev ; done ; done ) | uniq -c | awk '$1 > 1' |
> cut -c9- | sort -n | tail -1
>
> It isn't very efficient, though.  It took 13 minutes on my machine.  I
> could have taken a shortcut by guessing that the answer would involve
> larger numbers.  This gives the same answer in 23 seconds:
>
> ( for i in $(seq 901 999) ; do for j in $(seq 901 $i) ; do let k=$i*$j
> ; echo $k ; echo $k | rev ; done ; done ) | uniq -c | awk '$1 > 1' |
> cut -c9- | sort -n | tail -1
>
> I did use "rev" which could be considered cheating.  It can be written
> in pure internal bash but that is awkward and a bit long.
>
>
> This is my answer for Problem #5:
>
> let x=2*3*2*5*7*2*3*11*13*2*17*19 ; echo $x
>
> It's just too easy to do it that way.  If they wanted something
> bigger, maybe I'd program the algorithm.
>
>
> Problem #6:
>
> seq 100 | awk '{s+=$1}{s2+=$1^2}{print s^2-s2}' | tail -1
>
>
> Must sleep...
>
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
Addictive isn't it?

-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110227/caf2b499/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110227/caf2b499/attachment-0001.png>

From nesius at gmail.com  Sun Feb 27 11:45:35 2011
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:45:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikhrF7C9=FYgUa5-f53aXtJFTQYgQD6aod=abu-@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> It isn't very efficient, though.  It took 13 minutes on my machine.
>

That's part of the fun of it.  There are multiple twists you can add for
fun.

1) Choosing the best language for a particular problem.
2) Commit to solving in a particular language for the fun of overcoming the
challenges that presents (like bash, or lisp, or erlang, or asm, etc...)
3) Finding a solution that is computationally more efficient.   i.e., O(N^2)
solution is readily apparent.  Might there be an O(N) or O(nlogn) approach
that exploits underlying properties?

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110227/4880b9b9/attachment.html>

From 13.finn at gmail.com  Sun Feb 27 13:00:32 2011
From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 13:00:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikhrF7C9=FYgUa5-f53aXtJFTQYgQD6aod=abu-@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<AANLkTikhrF7C9=FYgUa5-f53aXtJFTQYgQD6aod=abu-@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D6A9F50.1000107@gmail.com>

On 02/27/2011 11:45 AM, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com
> <mailto:mbmiller%2Bl at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     It isn't very efficient, though.  It took 13 minutes on my machine.
>
>
> That's part of the fun of it.  There are multiple twists you can add
> for fun.
>
> 1) Choosing the best language for a particular problem.
> 2) Commit to solving in a particular language for the fun of
> overcoming the challenges that presents (like bash, or lisp, or
> erlang, or asm, etc...)
> 3) Finding a solution that is computationally more efficient.   i.e.,
> O(N^2) solution is readily apparent.  Might there be an O(N) or
> O(nlogn) approach that exploits underlying properties? 
>
>
4) Combining 1) and 2) to find the most efficient solution overall, or
best library within a language for computational efficiency. Great way
to gain a better grasp of both language and algorithmic strong/weak
points. 


-- 
Patrick "Finn" Robins
/Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
- Dr. Seuss/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110227/7f5503ac/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: kubuntu-user.png
Type: image/png
Size: 10677 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110227/7f5503ac/attachment.png>

From tclug at jfoo.org  Sun Feb 27 20:27:36 2011
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:27:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Continuous Integration tool a la CruiseControl
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikCsAU7jsU-_SvMDs4mWWZ_t2sTvoiOxBqT_Kpi@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1440055631.3556261.1298400974809.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>	<C33DC93B-7750-4F34-8558-AD0ED7D5865F@bitstream.net>
	<AANLkTikCsAU7jsU-_SvMDs4mWWZ_t2sTvoiOxBqT_Kpi@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D6B0818.9050606@jfoo.org>

On 2/22/11 7:01 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote:
> Agreed.  I've used CruiseControl, Hudson, and Bamboo.  Hudson
> surpassed CruiseControl in many ways.  I wouldn't want to use CC again
> unless I had to.  I encountered a number of CC problems related to
> when they tried to make it multi-threaded (buggy).  When I contributed
> a feature, I saw how the code was just a mess...
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Brady Hegberg<bradyh at bitstream.net>  wrote:
>> I've used both Hudson and CruiseControl.  Hudson seems to be easier to configure and more flexible - definitely worth a try.  My impression is that both packages have approximately the same capabilities but the Hudson project has done more work on the interface.
>>
>> -Brady
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2011, at 12:56 PM, dutchman_mn at charter.net wrote:
>>
>>> I have been using Hudson (have not moved to Jenkins yet) successfully on a number of projects.  It has lots of bells and whistles including a Mecurial plugin (http://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Mercurial+Plugin) though I have not run into a client using Mecurial yet (SVN mostly).
>>>
>>> Perry
>>>

Thanks for all the replies. I will be looking at Hudson/Jenkins.

John

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Feb 28 01:58:57 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 01:58:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikhrF7C9=FYgUa5-f53aXtJFTQYgQD6aod=abu-@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<AANLkTikhrF7C9=FYgUa5-f53aXtJFTQYgQD6aod=abu-@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102280151450.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Robert Nesius wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It isn't very efficient, though.  It took 13 minutes on my machine.
>
> That's part of the fun of it.  There are multiple twists you can add for 
> fun.
>
> 1) Choosing the best language for a particular problem.
>
> 2) Commit to solving in a particular language for the fun of overcoming the
> challenges that presents (like bash, or lisp, or erlang, or asm, etc...)

It's good exercise to push a language to do things it isn't good at.  You 
pick up a lot of useful tricks.  A lot of people would think programming 
couldn't be fun, but if crossword puzzles are fun, or sudoku is fun, then 
programming must be fun, but it's better than fun because you can solve 
important problems.  Solving a sudoku or crossword puzzle can't help to 
discover a cure for cancer, but some computer programs do that.


> 3) Finding a solution that is computationally more efficient.  i.e., 
> O(N^2) solution is readily apparent.  Might there be an O(N) or O(nlogn) 
> approach that exploits underlying properties?

I was wondering about that for things like factoring and identifying prime 
numbers.

It would be good to study more algorithms, but I don't have enough time to 
study them until I actually have a work-related problem to solve.  For 
these problems I have to toss off one of the first things that comes into 
my head.  It's a good feeling to get a quick answer, but I also feel like 
I opened a bag of chips and ate just one.

Mike

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Mon Feb 28 17:11:41 2011
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 17:11:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] mac
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1102280151450.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <1364538192.3791366.1298577392311.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>
	<AANLkTin=1pMOM4DK_zue8DzDQ3-cjg2UpSY+2nDtwdJ=@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D66BCB5.5070706@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimhULfi9YEJK+Y8gO5Fw5gbngTgFEvMRw5rVXca@mail.gmail.com>
	<2027043385-1298594836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432394719-@bda652.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTin_4hQ8Ne4ib_yQXfg7Uj3BYhGk-HW_-0h9AFfk@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik0g6c6hTJLra1KmO4A1kY3_=HS1bYRCXozVEY0@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102262148190.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<AANLkTikhrF7C9=FYgUa5-f53aXtJFTQYgQD6aod=abu-@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1102280151450.26842@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinaVSt0RUMKmTFPPdGtSPtRT49-ozHwKsrOOMf=@mail.gmail.com>

>It's good exercise to push a language to do things it isn't good at.  You
pick up a lot of useful tricks.  A lot of people would think programming
couldn't be fun, but if crossword puzzles are fun, or sudoku is fun, then
programming must be fun, but it's better than fun because you can solve
important problems.  Solving a sudoku or crossword puzzle can't help to
discover a cure for cancer, but some computer programs do that.

i must be burned out today.  i was looking for the "like" button as if i was
on facebook.


On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Feb 2011, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  It isn't very efficient, though.  It took 13 minutes on my machine.
>>>
>>
>> That's part of the fun of it.  There are multiple twists you can add for
>> fun.
>>
>> 1) Choosing the best language for a particular problem.
>>
>> 2) Commit to solving in a particular language for the fun of overcoming
>> the
>> challenges that presents (like bash, or lisp, or erlang, or asm, etc...)
>>
>
> It's good exercise to push a language to do things it isn't good at.  You
> pick up a lot of useful tricks.  A lot of people would think programming
> couldn't be fun, but if crossword puzzles are fun, or sudoku is fun, then
> programming must be fun, but it's better than fun because you can solve
> important problems.  Solving a sudoku or crossword puzzle can't help to
> discover a cure for cancer, but some computer programs do that.
>
>
>
>  3) Finding a solution that is computationally more efficient.  i.e.,
>> O(N^2) solution is readily apparent.  Might there be an O(N) or O(nlogn)
>> approach that exploits underlying properties?
>>
>
> I was wondering about that for things like factoring and identifying prime
> numbers.
>
> It would be good to study more algorithms, but I don't have enough time to
> study them until I actually have a work-related problem to solve.  For these
> problems I have to toss off one of the first things that comes into my head.
>  It's a good feeling to get a quick answer, but I also feel like I opened a
> bag of chips and ate just one.
>
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20110228/8a550d01/attachment.html>