From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 02:14:59 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 02:14:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre Linux Message-ID: My cell phone, a Palm Pre, has Linux under the hood. Maybe I always knew that, but I wasn't thinking about it much until I wanted to get my old text messages off the phone. Then I had to follow the procedure in the right pane here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux That leads you here, where there are quite a few steps to follow: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?id=1788 After that, I connect the phone to the Ubuntu box and run "novaterm" in an xterm window. This gives me a bash prompt on the Palm Pre. root at palm-webos-device:/# set DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS='unix:path=/tmp/session_bus_socket' DBUS_SYSTEM_BUS_ADDRESS='unix:path=/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket' EDITOR='/bin/vi' HISTFILE='/tmp/.ash_history12372' IFS=' ' OPTIND='1' PATH='/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:' PPID='1004' PS1='\u@\h:\w\$ ' PS2='> ' PS4='+ ' PWD='/' TERM='vt100' TZ=':/var/luna/preferences/localtime' UPSTART_STARTTIME='2.580910644' _='echo' It's a little limited but it is pretty cool to work in a Linux environment inside my cell phone. I guess we want it to be limited because we need all the RAM and flash memory space we can get. There are no man pages, but there are a lot of programs in the path and bash does filename completion and command history. So it's pretty comfortable to use. Next I copied the database file containing SMS messages to a location where I can access it using the phone as a USB drive: cp -p /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 /media/internal It has md5sum, so I can check that the copies are identical. Then I exit the session, unplug the device and plug it back in, but this time I choose USB-drive mode. Now I can copy the db file to my Linux box, check the md5sum, and run these programs to get all of my text messages: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_Export_Text_Messages_Using_Perl I got some of the ideas from here: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/187145-how-back-up-text-messages-when-exchanging-phones.html Mike From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 07:25:13 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:25:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The text retrieval information was very insightful, thank you for posting this. I had the first generation Palm Pre about two years ago and I remember that there was a 3rd party Terminal application that allowed you to play around in CLI on the phone itself. One could also install and use ssh on the phone- very cool. The phone had a lot of potential running on Linux, but like you mentioned, the limited resources bring some weak performance (although I hear the later generation phones were beefed up a bit). I sold mine after 6 months of sub-par performance and went back to my 10 year old Samsung clamshell :) Jeremy MountainJohnson jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 2:14 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > My cell phone, a Palm Pre, has Linux under the hood. ?Maybe I always knew > that, but I wasn't thinking about it much until I wanted to get my old text > messages off the phone. ?Then I had to follow the procedure in the right > pane here: > > http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux > > That leads you here, where there are quite a few steps to follow: > > http://developer.palm.com/index.php?id=1788 > > After that, I connect the phone to the Ubuntu box and run "novaterm" in an > xterm window. ?This gives me a bash prompt on the Palm Pre. > > root at palm-webos-device:/# set > DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS='unix:path=/tmp/session_bus_socket' > DBUS_SYSTEM_BUS_ADDRESS='unix:path=/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket' > EDITOR='/bin/vi' > HISTFILE='/tmp/.ash_history12372' > IFS=' > ' > OPTIND='1' > PATH='/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:' > PPID='1004' > PS1='\u@\h:\w\$ ' > PS2='> ' > PS4='+ ' > PWD='/' > TERM='vt100' > TZ=':/var/luna/preferences/localtime' > UPSTART_STARTTIME='2.580910644' > _='echo' > > It's a little limited but it is pretty cool to work in a Linux environment > inside my cell phone. ?I guess we want it to be limited because we need all > the RAM and flash memory space we can get. ?There are no man pages, but > there are a lot of programs in the path and bash does filename completion > and command history. ?So it's pretty comfortable to use. > > Next I copied the database file containing SMS messages to a location where > I can access it using the phone as a USB drive: > > cp -p /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 /media/internal > > It has md5sum, so I can check that the copies are identical. ?Then I exit > the session, unplug the device and plug it back in, but this time I choose > USB-drive mode. ?Now I can copy the db file to my Linux box, check the > md5sum, and run these programs to get all of my text messages: > > http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_Export_Text_Messages_Using_Perl > > I got some of the ideas from here: > > http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/187145-how-back-up-text-messages-when-exchanging-phones.html > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 10:47:51 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:47:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Palm Pre Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > The text retrieval information was very insightful, thank you for > posting this. Thanks. I've been working on improving the code for extracting text messages and I'll post that later this week. > I had the first generation Palm Pre about two years ago and I remember > that there was a 3rd party Terminal application that allowed you to play > around in CLI on the phone itself. One could also install and use ssh on > the phone- very cool. > > The phone had a lot of potential running on Linux, but like you > mentioned, the limited resources bring some weak performance (although I > hear the later generation phones were beefed up a bit). I sold mine > after 6 months of sub-par performance and went back to my 10 year old > Samsung clamshell :) I had my Pre in the shop about 5 times and probably replaced it three times. They released it on June 6, 2009, in a mad rush to compete with Apple's iPhone which was just finishing its second year, so contracts were expiring. It definitely was not ready, but they had a pretty good system for upgrading the OS, and it kept getting better while I owned it. For example, it couldn't record video when I bought it, but months later, it could. I think they didn't capture the interest of developers to the extent they expected. One of the big problems I've had is with synchronizing. The earlier PalmOS devices would *fully* synchronize with a PC, so you could toss the device, replace it, sync, and you would have absolutely everything the same as before. The Pre does not sync text messages, system settings, ringtones, or really anything. They want users to sync with "the cloud," but they don't sync much. They won't even do it in-house: If you need to replace your phone, they won't move your text messages, call records, or anything else to your new phone. Things like contacts are stored in the cloud -- for me it's Google -- and that is nice. It does interact well with Google's calendar, gmail and contacts, but interacting well with Google can't be a good selling point when you're competing with Android. One reason I went with the Pre was that I had a Treo 600 for about 6 years of consistent performance and I use Sprint. So I thought the Pre would give me some continuity and my old stuff could run on the new device. Well, I never got around to porting my old PalmOS apps to the Pre and I really don't love Sprint, so this June, or soon afterward, I am pretty likely to try something else. Maybe Android. Mike From admin at lctn.org Tue Mar 1 12:01:23 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:01:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] usb boot cd help Message-ID: <4D6D3473.2020209@lctn.org> I have a laptop that cannot boot from a USB drive. I found a howto on creating a CD that will enable a USB boot, but it is of an old distro, which does not have the same file structure. Anyone have a current howto for Ubuntu Julia ? This is what I found for an older howto: http://www.pendrivelinux.com/usb-boot-cd-for-ubuntu-810/ From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 1 12:06:00 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:06:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] usb boot cd help In-Reply-To: <4D6D3473.2020209@lctn.org> References: <4D6D3473.2020209@lctn.org> Message-ID: Plop Boot Manager (http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagerdl.html) is a boot CD image that'll just pop up a menu and let you choose where to boot from. I've used it to boot of USB drives on machines that don't have that capability. Download the ZIP and burn the plpbt.iso to a CD. On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, Raymond Norton wrote: > I have a laptop that cannot boot from a USB drive. I found a howto on > creating a CD that will enable a USB boot, but it is of an old distro, which > does not have the same file structure. Anyone have a current howto for Ubuntu > Julia ? > > This is what I found for an older howto: > http://www.pendrivelinux.com/usb-boot-cd-for-ubuntu-810/ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From mjb at umn.edu Tue Mar 1 12:20:18 2011 From: mjb at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:20:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] usb boot cd help In-Reply-To: References: <4D6D3473.2020209@lctn.org> Message-ID: <4D6D38E2.7020505@umn.edu> On 3/1/2011 12:06 PM, Yaron wrote: > Plop Boot Manager (http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagerdl.html) is a boot > CD image that'll just pop up a menu and let you choose where to boot > from. I've used it to boot of USB drives on machines that don't have > that capability. Download the ZIP and burn the plpbt.iso to a CD. This is fantastic - I lost track of the number of times I could have used this and instead had to go and burn a full installer iso or much worse, a stack of CD iso images on a machine w/o DVD or USB booting. Thanks! +++++++++++++++++ Michael Berkowski Minitex / MnLINK Linux Systems Administrator and Programmer University of Minnesota mjb at umn.edu PGP Public key: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~berk0081/pgp/pubkey.asc +++++++++++++++++ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From vc.lists at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 12:33:08 2011 From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:33:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] usb boot cd help In-Reply-To: <4D6D38E2.7020505@umn.edu> References: <4D6D3473.2020209@lctn.org> <4D6D38E2.7020505@umn.edu> Message-ID: One would still have to make the USB bootable (using UNetBootin or some such), correct? Thanks, Vee. On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Michael Berkowski wrote: > On 3/1/2011 12:06 PM, Yaron wrote: > > Plop Boot Manager (http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagerdl.html) is a boot > > CD image that'll just pop up a menu and let you choose where to boot > > from. I've used it to boot of USB drives on machines that don't have > > that capability. Download the ZIP and burn the plpbt.iso to a CD. > > This is fantastic - I lost track of the number of times I could have > used this and instead had to go and burn a full installer iso or much > worse, a stack of CD iso images on a machine w/o DVD or USB booting. > Thanks! > > +++++++++++++++++ > Michael Berkowski > Minitex / MnLINK Linux Systems Administrator and Programmer > University of Minnesota > mjb at umn.edu > PGP Public key: > http://www.tc.umn.edu/~berk0081/pgp/pubkey.asc > +++++++++++++++++ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 1 12:35:11 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 12:35:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] usb boot cd help In-Reply-To: References: <4D6D3473.2020209@lctn.org> <4D6D38E2.7020505@umn.edu> Message-ID: Some machines don't have a boot from USB option. Mostly older machines, and VMware. On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, Venkat Chandra wrote: > One would still have to make the USB bootable (using UNetBootin or some > such), correct? ? > Thanks, > Vee. > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Michael Berkowski wrote: > On 3/1/2011 12:06 PM, Yaron wrote: > > Plop Boot Manager (http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagerdl.html) > is a boot > > CD image that'll just pop up a menu and let you choose where > to boot > > from. I've used it to boot of USB drives on machines that > don't have > > that capability. Download the ZIP and burn the plpbt.iso to a > CD. > > This is fantastic - I lost track of the number of times I could have > used this and instead had to go and burn a full installer iso or ?much > worse, a stack of CD iso images on a machine w/o DVD or USB booting. > Thanks! > > +++++++++++++++++ > Michael Berkowski > Minitex ?/ MnLINK Linux Systems Administrator and Programmer > University of Minnesota > mjb at umn.edu > PGP Public key: > http://www.tc.umn.edu/~berk0081/pgp/pubkey.asc > +++++++++++++++++ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -Yaron -- From admin at lctn.org Tue Mar 1 12:36:41 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:36:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] usb boot cd help In-Reply-To: References: <4D6D3473.2020209@lctn.org> <4D6D38E2.7020505@umn.edu> Message-ID: <4D6D3CB9.7000508@lctn.org> That is what I did. Works perfect with plop now. On 03/01/2011 12:33 PM, Venkat Chandra wrote: > One would still have to make the USB bootable (using UNetBootin or > some such), correct? > > Thanks, > Vee. > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Michael Berkowski > wrote: > > On 3/1/2011 12:06 PM, Yaron wrote: > > Plop Boot Manager (http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanagerdl.html) is > a boot > > CD image that'll just pop up a menu and let you choose where to boot > > from. I've used it to boot of USB drives on machines that don't have > > that capability. Download the ZIP and burn the plpbt.iso to a CD. > > This is fantastic - I lost track of the number of times I could have > used this and instead had to go and burn a full installer iso or much > worse, a stack of CD iso images on a machine w/o DVD or USB > booting. Thanks! > > +++++++++++++++++ > Michael Berkowski > Minitex / MnLINK Linux Systems Administrator and Programmer > University of Minnesota > mjb at umn.edu > PGP Public key: > http://www.tc.umn.edu/~berk0081/pgp/pubkey.asc > > +++++++++++++++++ > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by *MailScanner* , and is > believed to be clean. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 2 17:05:14 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 17:05:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing Message-ID: Alright, time to open THIS ol' can of worms up. The computer I used to use for video editing has become obsolete for the purpose, especially with everything being in HD. 5 hours to export a 5 minute video is just... not super acceptable. Be nice to be able to do video editing on my Linux desktop, but I've yet to find an application that A) Works, and B) Doesn't have a learning curve that requires advanced degrees to calculate. I'll get this out of the way so everyone can have a good laugh - yeah I'm a Linux on the desktop person, but I've been using a Mac for video editing. Yeah I know. So really what I'm looking for is not a super-advanced video editor. I want something that has the same basic functionality as iMovie (preferably the old version before they dumbed it down even more) - non-linear, lets you split/move/combine, lets you choose/add/edit audio tracks, add titles/transitions, that sort of stuff. I've tried Keno (didn't have ANY features I could find) Pitivi (can't handle AVCHD for some reason), Cinelerra (insanely overcomplicated, seriously when you're running on three monitors and still don't have enough room for all the windows?) and probably a couple more, all of which either don't work, can't actually edit videos, or can't export into a usable format. Is anyone on the list using Linux to do semi simple, but not totally braindead video editing? And if so, any recommendations? I'd really rather not spend a whole ton of money on a new Apple machine if I can help it. -Yaron -- From pcutler at gnome.org Wed Mar 2 17:55:55 2011 From: pcutler at gnome.org (Paul Cutler) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 17:55:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Give OpenShot[1] a try - I thought it was much easier to use than PiTiVi. (Shameless plug, I interviewed the creator / maintainer a year ago [2]) Paul [1] http://www.openshotvideo.com/ [2] http://gnomejournal.org/article/90/interview-with-jonathan-thomas-creator-of-the-openshot-video-editor On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Yaron wrote: > Alright, time to open THIS ol' can of worms up. > > The computer I used to use for video editing has become obsolete for the > purpose, especially with everything being in HD. 5 hours to export a 5 > minute video is just... not super acceptable. Be nice to be able to do video > editing on my Linux desktop, but I've yet to find an application that A) > Works, and B) Doesn't have a learning curve that requires advanced degrees > to calculate. > > I'll get this out of the way so everyone can have a good laugh - yeah I'm a > Linux on the desktop person, but I've been using a Mac for video editing. > Yeah I know. So really what I'm looking for is not a super-advanced video > editor. I want something that has the same basic functionality as iMovie > (preferably the old version before they dumbed it down even more) - > non-linear, lets you split/move/combine, lets you choose/add/edit audio > tracks, add titles/transitions, that sort of stuff. > > I've tried Keno (didn't have ANY features I could find) Pitivi (can't handle > AVCHD for some reason), Cinelerra (insanely overcomplicated, seriously when > you're running on three monitors and still don't have enough room for all > the windows?) and probably a couple more, all of which either don't work, > can't actually edit videos, or can't export into a usable format. > > Is anyone on the list using Linux to do semi simple, but not totally > braindead video editing? And if so, any recommendations? I'd really rather > not spend a whole ton of money on a new Apple machine if I can help it. > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 2 21:28:41 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 21:28:41 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have it installed on my machine so clearly I've tried it, but I'll give it another shot (; Hmm, yeah... the thing about OpenShot is it's kinda buggy, and the UI is, well. Very Linux. As in, way the heck wrong. Kinda how after using Photoshop for a while, using GIMP is just plain painful. I looove Linux on my desktop, but I don't really do a lot of GUI-heavy stuff with it, to be honest. I have a ton of xterms (well, aterms) open, I can't STAND Gnome or KDE (I use Window Maker). I USED to use f-spot/ufraw/gimp for photography, but when that became a more serious hobby (and I got a Wacom tablet) out came Photoshop in a VM. I'd try that for video but video editing in a VM is painful... And yeah, looking for something with a nice UI on Linux is kind of a long-shot, but I do REALLY want to give it a try. I'm not trying to do anything even remotely as complex as stuff I do in Photoshop (; On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Paul Cutler wrote: > Give OpenShot[1] a try - I thought it was much easier to use than > PiTiVi. (Shameless plug, I interviewed the creator / maintainer a > year ago [2]) > > Paul > > [1] http://www.openshotvideo.com/ > [2] http://gnomejournal.org/article/90/interview-with-jonathan-thomas-creator-of-the-openshot-video-editor > > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Yaron wrote: >> Alright, time to open THIS ol' can of worms up. >> >> The computer I used to use for video editing has become obsolete for the >> purpose, especially with everything being in HD. 5 hours to export a 5 >> minute video is just... not super acceptable. Be nice to be able to do video >> editing on my Linux desktop, but I've yet to find an application that A) >> Works, and B) Doesn't have a learning curve that requires advanced degrees >> to calculate. >> >> I'll get this out of the way so everyone can have a good laugh - yeah I'm a >> Linux on the desktop person, but I've been using a Mac for video editing. >> Yeah I know. So really what I'm looking for is not a super-advanced video >> editor. I want something that has the same basic functionality as iMovie >> (preferably the old version before they dumbed it down even more) - >> non-linear, lets you split/move/combine, lets you choose/add/edit audio >> tracks, add titles/transitions, that sort of stuff. >> >> I've tried Keno (didn't have ANY features I could find) Pitivi (can't handle >> AVCHD for some reason), Cinelerra (insanely overcomplicated, seriously when >> you're running on three monitors and still don't have enough room for all >> the windows?) and probably a couple more, all of which either don't work, >> can't actually edit videos, or can't export into a usable format. >> >> Is anyone on the list using Linux to do semi simple, but not totally >> braindead video editing? And if so, any recommendations? I'd really rather >> not spend a whole ton of money on a new Apple machine if I can help it. >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > -Yaron -- From berk0081 at umn.edu Wed Mar 2 17:18:38 2011 From: berk0081 at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 17:18:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 2, 2011 5:05 PM, "Yaron" wrote: > > Alright, time to open THIS ol' can of worms up. > > The computer I used to use for video editing has become obsolete for the purpose, especially with everything being in HD. 5 hours to export a 5 minute video is just... not super acceptable. Be nice to be able to do video editing on my Linux desktop, but I've yet to find an application that A) Works, and B) Doesn't have a learning curve that requires advanced degrees to calculate. > > I'll get this out of the way so everyone can have a good laugh - yeah I'm a Linux on the desktop person, but I've been using a Mac for video editing. Yeah I know. So really what I'm looking for is not a super-advanced video editor. I want something that has the same basic functionality as iMovie (preferably the old version before they dumbed it down even more) - non-linear, lets you split/move/combine, lets you choose/add/edit audio tracks, add titles/transitions, that sort of stuff. > > I've tried Keno (didn't have ANY features I could find) Pitivi (can't handle AVCHD for some reason), Cinelerra (insanely overcomplicated, seriously when you're running on three monitors and still don't have enough room for all the windows?) and probably a couple more, all of which either don't work, can't actually edit videos, or can't export into a usable format. > > Is anyone on the list using Linux to do semi simple, but not totally braindead video editing? And if so, any recommendations? I'd really rather not spend a whole ton of money on a new Apple machine if I can help it. > > > -Yaron How about Kdenlive? Haven't used it but I hear it has a lot more features than Keno without Cinelerra's learning curve. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Mar 3 09:39:42 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 09:39:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Michael Berkowski wrote: > How about Kdenlive? Haven't used it but I hear it has a lot more features > than Keno without Cinelerra's learning curve. Also buggy/slow as all getout. There should not be a time where moving a scrollbar or changing a zoom level makes the program hang so bad that the UI elements don't redraw for like 5 minutes... -Yaron -- From cwgriesel at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 10:05:51 2011 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:05:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, you've already covered the three most popular video editors in Linux at the moment, OpenShot, Kdenlive, and Kino. I've played with all three myself, but always end up going back to iMovie on a Mac to get things done. As you've noted, non-linear video editors on Linux have many shortcomings at the moment. A lot of people are waiting for Lightworks (www.lightworksbeta.com) to come out for Linux, which may happen by the end of this year. You can currently get Lightworks for Windows only. Lightworks is more for the professional level, and is not as simple as iMovie, but it should be pretty feature-rich and higher quality that the current video editor options in Linux. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Yaron wrote: > On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Michael Berkowski wrote: > >> How about Kdenlive? Haven't used it but I hear it has a lot more features >> than Keno without Cinelerra's learning curve. > > Also buggy/slow as all getout. There should not be a time where moving a > scrollbar or changing a zoom level makes the program hang so bad that the UI > elements don't redraw for like 5 minutes... > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From cwgriesel at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 10:10:59 2011 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:10:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've just noticed that this year's Best Picture Oscar winner, The King's Speech, was edited using Lightworks. So it must be a good editor, but maybe not the entry-level editor you are looking for. On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Curtis Griesel wrote: > Well, you've already covered the three most popular video editors in > Linux at the moment, ?OpenShot, Kdenlive, and Kino. > > I've played with all three myself, but always end up going back to > iMovie on a Mac to get things done. ?As you've noted, non-linear video > editors on Linux have many shortcomings at the moment. > > A lot of people are waiting for Lightworks (www.lightworksbeta.com) to > come out for Linux, which may happen by the end of this year. ?You can > currently get Lightworks for Windows only. ?Lightworks is more for the > professional level, and is not as simple as iMovie, but it should be > pretty feature-rich and higher quality that the current video editor > options in Linux. > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Yaron wrote: >> On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Michael Berkowski wrote: >> >>> How about Kdenlive? Haven't used it but I hear it has a lot more features >>> than Keno without Cinelerra's learning curve. >> >> Also buggy/slow as all getout. There should not be a time where moving a >> scrollbar or changing a zoom level makes the program hang so bad that the UI >> elements don't redraw for like 5 minutes... >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Mar 3 10:13:04 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:13:04 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Mar 2011, Curtis Griesel wrote: > I've just noticed that this year's Best Picture Oscar winner, The > King's Speech, was edited using Lightworks. So it must be a good > editor, but maybe not the entry-level editor you are looking for. *laughs* yeah, that might be a bit much for the Look How Fast My Dog Runs clip or the Watch Me Sled Off A 8" Drift montage I'm going for. I think I'll just build a hackintosh. -Yaron -- From tclugl at whitleymott.net Fri Mar 4 08:12:38 2011 From: tclugl at whitleymott.net (gregwm) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:12:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] missing twm Message-ID: <4D70F356.8020801@whitleymott.net> twm has been my favorite wm for years, missing it because lucid and maverick vncservers compiled with some capability missing, dunno which capability, but as a result twm (and certain games) won't launch (and some other games launch but won't function) (all work fine under X) dunno if there's any intention to restore whatever that vncserver compile option is, so far i haven't gone to the bother to fetch the source and recompile for myself, have been toying with other wm's, happy to have my horizons widened but still missing twm's tiny ram footprint, can place miniaturized window icons anywhere, vert zoom (same width full height), horiz zoom, left zoom (left half full height), right zoom, top zoom, bottom zoom. any other wm with these or such features? From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 11:50:21 2011 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:50:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you $150/month for the first four months I work with them. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From auditodd at comcast.net Sat Mar 5 11:52:57 2011 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 17:52:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <316537777.1982192.1299347577626.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Wood" To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you $150/month for the first four months I work with them. -- Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Sat Mar 5 11:53:19 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:53:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not this again. Didn't we scare you off the list last time? On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Brian Wood wrote: > > I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the > C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that > writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input.? > In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate > 18 hours/week for six months to their project.? If you aren't > an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on > the action.? If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you > $150/month for the first four months I work with them. > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net > (651) 251-9384 > > > "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season > we shall reap if we do not lose heart.? Therefore, as we have > opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of > the household of faith."? Galatians 6:9-11 > > > -Yaron -- From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 12:54:35 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 12:54:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ [ intG(compile)] Message-ID: So religion bears its ugly head again. We already have a religion its called GNU. And lets face it god is the compiler. So yes I'm very religious I talk to good all day long. I would say my whole life is devoted to god. and through god I make the world a better place. ,Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 15:39:22 2011 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 15:39:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Top-posting Message-ID: A fellow C++ programmer adds the following to his posts: "I do not respond to top-posted replies, please *don't ask*" I didn't write that in my post earlier today so I'll briefly reply to Yaron. This is different. Previously I posted about a part-time job offer. Now I'm posting about a referral bonus that's open to anyone regardless of their religion. Anyway, if you wonder why I didn't reply to your post it may be because you've top-posted. Brian Wood Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net (651) 251-9384 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Sat Mar 5 15:45:24 2011 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 15:45:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On 03/05/2011 11:50 AM, Brian Wood wrote: > > I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the > C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that > writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. > In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate > 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't > an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on > the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you > $150/month for the first four months I work with them. > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net > (651) 251-9384 > > Why the animosity towards Brian? We still believe in freedom of association in this country. Brian prefers Orthodox Jews or pro-life Christians. I don't qualify on either count, but he has the right to his opinion and his preferences. Jim From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sat Mar 5 16:20:32 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:20:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> Message-ID: <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> I think its just that last time he was active on this list he seemed to troll people more than actually contribute. I have no issues with his want to associate with someone who has his same points of view. What I have issues with is that he tends to be a little caustic (and troll-like) towards people who don't, as proven by his recent post stating he won't respond to people who top post. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 15:45 , James Kaufman wrote: > On 03/05/2011 11:50 AM, Brian Wood wrote: >> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >> >> -- >> Brian Wood >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> http://webEbenezer.net >> (651) 251-9384 >> >> > > Why the animosity towards Brian? We still believe in freedom of association in this country. Brian prefers Orthodox Jews or pro-life Christians. I don't qualify on either count, but he has the right to his opinion and his preferences. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sat Mar 5 16:13:07 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 16:13:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <316537777.1982192.1299347577626.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <316537777.1982192.1299347577626.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: This list uses mailman right? The administrator can set an email ban on him. I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? > > ---------- > Todd Young > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Wood" > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM > Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > > > > > I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the > C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that > writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. > In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate > 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't > an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on > the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you > $150/month for the first four months I work with them. > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net > (651) 251-9384 > > > "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season > we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have > opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of > the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Sat Mar 5 17:47:39 2011 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 17:47:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D72CB9B.10009@beer.tclug.org> I'm not sure I'd say this is something for everyone; two people have unsubscribed from the list since this thread started. (Yes, folks; I'm a moderator now.) Now, obviously correlation doesn't imply causation, but it seems too coincidental to dismiss out-of-hand. Now, I'm not exactly feeling bold enough yet to try making sweeping policy decisions here -- granted, I probably could -- so my current move is to respectfully request that we keep the subject of religion off this technical mailing list. It never, ever ends well. Jima From mn-linux.org at cyberians.net Sat Mar 5 19:57:27 2011 From: mn-linux.org at cyberians.net (Jonah) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 19:57:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> Its times like this that I truly question the value of this list. For the few years I have been on this list, I don't say much; typically keeping any input to Linux or computers. I figured this group was focused on advancements or creative implementations of the technology, and furthering that kind of passion. But it seems to be such a small portion of the list content is truly focused on that, and the few legitimate threads are over-shadowed by the bullshit drama that mushroom clouds into some crap-tangent. I do NOT care about your religious beliefs, or non-beliefs, because this is NOT an appropriate forum for that. Save it for off-line, or some street corner and a sandwich-board sign. I personally do not give a damn about your posturing egos, bullshit bantering or someone's trolling in a demi-intelligent driveling diatribe. We have all been in the IT field long enough to recognize the same online crap that makes us cringe when we see it - so why do it ourselves? Have our social skills and professionalism not advanced as much our knowledge in technology? Perhaps some house-cleaning needs to take place - in our membership, or in ourselves. If you disagree with someone on a purely personal level, let it go - or take it offline - for the greater good. You surely won't win any points in a pointless online argument, and it undermines the value this group brings. Who wants to contribute to a list, when it may spiral off into some off-topic agonizing showboating? I should just blow this off, because the pattern repeats itself in this list - but I expect better. From nesius at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 20:17:27 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 20:17:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Jonah wrote: > Its times like this that I truly question the value of this list. > > For the few years I have been on this list, I don't say much; typically > keeping any input to Linux or computers. I figured this group was focused > on advancements or creative implementations of the technology, and > furthering that kind of passion. But it seems to be such a small portion of > the list content is truly focused on that, and the few legitimate threads > are over-shadowed by the bullshit drama that mushroom clouds into some > crap-tangent. > > I do NOT care about your religious beliefs, or non-beliefs, because this is > NOT an appropriate forum for that. Save it for off-line, or some street > corner and a sandwich-board sign. I personally do not give a damn about > your posturing egos, bullshit bantering or someone's trolling in a > demi-intelligent driveling diatribe. > > We have all been in the IT field long enough to recognize the same online > crap that makes us cringe when we see it - so why do it ourselves? Have our > social skills and professionalism not advanced as much our knowledge in > technology? > > Perhaps some house-cleaning needs to take place - in our membership, or in > ourselves. If you disagree with someone on a purely personal level, let it > go - or take it offline - for the greater good. You surely won't win any > points in a pointless online argument, and it undermines the value this > group brings. > > Who wants to contribute to a list, when it may spiral off into some > off-topic agonizing showboating? > > I should just blow this off, because the pattern repeats itself in this > list - but I expect better. > > So... you don't like this thread so far? -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 20:19:47 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 20:19:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> Message-ID: Just hit delete. Takes less than a second. On Mar 5, 2011 8:17 PM, "Robert Nesius" wrote: > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Jonah wrote: > >> Its times like this that I truly question the value of this list. >> >> For the few years I have been on this list, I don't say much; typically >> keeping any input to Linux or computers. I figured this group was focused >> on advancements or creative implementations of the technology, and >> furthering that kind of passion. But it seems to be such a small portion of >> the list content is truly focused on that, and the few legitimate threads >> are over-shadowed by the bullshit drama that mushroom clouds into some >> crap-tangent. >> >> I do NOT care about your religious beliefs, or non-beliefs, because this is >> NOT an appropriate forum for that. Save it for off-line, or some street >> corner and a sandwich-board sign. I personally do not give a damn about >> your posturing egos, bullshit bantering or someone's trolling in a >> demi-intelligent driveling diatribe. >> >> We have all been in the IT field long enough to recognize the same online >> crap that makes us cringe when we see it - so why do it ourselves? Have our >> social skills and professionalism not advanced as much our knowledge in >> technology? >> >> Perhaps some house-cleaning needs to take place - in our membership, or in >> ourselves. If you disagree with someone on a purely personal level, let it >> go - or take it offline - for the greater good. You surely won't win any >> points in a pointless online argument, and it undermines the value this >> group brings. >> >> Who wants to contribute to a list, when it may spiral off into some >> off-topic agonizing showboating? >> >> I should just blow this off, because the pattern repeats itself in this >> list - but I expect better. >> >> > So... you don't like this thread so far? > > -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 20:22:02 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 20:22:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Jonah wrote: > Who wants to contribute to a list, when it may spiral off into some > off-topic agonizing showboating? I'd do it. I like it if people stay on topic, but sometimes threads spin off into some random direction. It doesn't kill me. For example, you are writing about your personal feelings about religion appearing on a technical Linux list, but I'm changing the subject because I noticed a character in a text file that emacs described as follows: 2208, #o4240, #x8a0 I'm trying to figure out how to use perl to remove such characters from a text file. It seems like it would be easy using something like s/\x8a0//, but that isn't it. Anyone know? Mike From houletr at yahoo.com Sat Mar 5 20:29:22 2011 From: houletr at yahoo.com (terry houle) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:29:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? Message-ID: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. Any pointers appreciated. terry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com Sat Mar 5 20:36:41 2011 From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 20:36:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? References: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0000184150@penguinpackets.com> Microcenter has Slackware 13.1 (current release): http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0346632 Could not find Debian in the inventory, but I woud imagine somebody on the list lives close to you and could burn you a copy. Kelly Black > Sat Mar 05 2011 08:29:22 PM CST from "terry houle" >Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? > > > I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell >just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one >locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. >Any pointers appreciated. > >terry > > > > > > (, 0 bytes) Download > > > > > > > ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: URL: From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sat Mar 5 20:47:33 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 20:47:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68F57475-B05B-4591-B154-0E29CB956825@redstargaming.net> Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't work for you? Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: > I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally. I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. > Any pointers appreciated. > > terry > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sat Mar 5 20:53:29 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 20:53:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> Message-ID: <1CCC10E6-CE3E-48B8-93C6-E0598128933E@redstargaming.net> Try \x{8a0} instead. I think that \x normally accepts only two following characters, so you have to use \x{} for long hexadecimal numbers. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:22 , Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Jonah wrote: > >> Who wants to contribute to a list, when it may spiral off into some off-topic agonizing showboating? > > > I'd do it. I like it if people stay on topic, but sometimes threads spin off into some random direction. It doesn't kill me. > > For example, you are writing about your personal feelings about religion appearing on a technical Linux list, but I'm changing the subject because I noticed a character in a text file that emacs described as follows: > > 2208, #o4240, #x8a0 > > I'm trying to figure out how to use perl to remove such characters from a text file. It seems like it would be easy using something like s/\x8a0//, but that isn't it. Anyone know? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 21:01:45 2011 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 21:01:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I can't speak to other distros, but I have quite a few Ubuntu and Debian ISOs already downloaded, and Imation donated some CD-Rs and jewel cases for this sort of use, so if you'd be able to meet up with me somewhere I'd be happy to burn something for you. - Tony Yarusso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.katerberg at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 21:03:29 2011 From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 21:03:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <731740d9-e35f-4235-8342-7003b1daa7b5@email.android.com> Shoot, tony beat me to it. I would also happily give linux to anyone -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Tony Yarusso wrote: I can't speak to other distros, but I have quite a few Ubuntu and Debian ISOs already downloaded, and Imation donated some CD-Rs and jewel cases for this sort of use, so if you'd be able to meet up with me somewhere I'd be happy to burn something for you. - Tony Yarusso -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From houletr at yahoo.com Sat Mar 5 21:09:52 2011 From: houletr at yahoo.com (terry houle) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 19:09:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <68F57475-B05B-4591-B154-0E29CB956825@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: <47561.93270.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was reading. --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't work for you? Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. Any pointers appreciated. terry _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sat Mar 5 21:13:31 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 21:13:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <47561.93270.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <47561.93270.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6D33CDAA-778E-4617-B333-4879331EA6D5@redstargaming.net> Not in my experiences. I would recommend using the Debian torrent for your architecture: http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ Then you just burn it to DVD (or mount it to install it to a VM, which I recommend for newbies personally) and you're set to install. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 21:09 , terry houle wrote: > > It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was reading. > > --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: > > From: Adam Morris > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM > > Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't work for you? > > Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: > >> I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally. I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. >> Any pointers appreciated. >> >> terry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 21:28:48 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 21:28:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <6D33CDAA-778E-4617-B333-4879331EA6D5@redstargaming.net> References: <47561.93270.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <6D33CDAA-778E-4617-B333-4879331EA6D5@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: i have ubuntu and a few distros available in the uptown area of minneapolis On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Adam Morris wrote: > Not in my experiences. I would recommend using the Debian torrent for your > architecture: http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ > > Then you just burn it to DVD (or mount it to install it to a VM, which I > recommend for newbies personally) and you're set to install. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 21:09 , terry houle wrote: > > > It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was > reading. > > --- On *Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris * wrote: > > > From: Adam Morris > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM > > Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't > work for you? > > Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a > disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: > > I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell > just the CD or DVD? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one > locally. I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. > Any pointers appreciated. > > terry > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From houletr at yahoo.com Sat Mar 5 21:41:19 2011 From: houletr at yahoo.com (terry houle) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 19:41:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <6D33CDAA-778E-4617-B333-4879331EA6D5@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: <547915.83333.qm@web114209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I will give the download a try.? Thanks --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 9:13 PM Not in my experiences. ?I would recommend using the Debian torrent for your architecture: ?http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ Then you just burn it to DVD (or mount it to install it to a VM, which I recommend for newbies personally) and you're set to install. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 21:09 , terry houle wrote: It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was reading. --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't work for you? Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. Any pointers appreciated. terry _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 23:46:58 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 23:46:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <1CCC10E6-CE3E-48B8-93C6-E0598128933E@redstargaming.net> References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> <1CCC10E6-CE3E-48B8-93C6-E0598128933E@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Adam Morris wrote: > Try \x{8a0} instead. I think that \x normally accepts only two > following characters, so you have to use \x{} for long hexadecimal > numbers. You top posted, so I have to ignore you. Just kidding. I did try that and that didn't work either. Then I did this... perl -pe 's/[[:ascii:]]//g ; s/(.)/$1\n/g' file.txt | sort | uniq -c >| bad_chars.txt ...and when I looked at the resulting bad_chars.txt file in emacs again, the characters looked different. Before they were appearing as purple rectangles, but now they appeared as a pair of characters that looked like this: \302\240 I could represent them exactly that way in perl and delete them. I don't really get what was happening there. Mike > On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:22 , Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Jonah wrote: >> >>> Who wants to contribute to a list, when it may spiral off into some >>> off-topic agonizing showboating? >> >> I'd do it. I like it if people stay on topic, but sometimes threads >> spin off into some random direction. It doesn't kill me. >> >> For example, you are writing about your personal feelings about >> religion appearing on a technical Linux list, but I'm changing the >> subject because I noticed a character in a text file that emacs >> described as follows: >> >> 2208, #o4240, #x8a0 >> >> I'm trying to figure out how to use perl to remove such characters from >> a text file. It seems like it would be easy using something like >> s/\x8a0//, but that isn't it. Anyone know? >> >> Mike From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 00:01:23 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 00:01:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Learning Perl Message-ID: I am really enjoying learning Perl right now and I love the array and list operators. After using python for a while I am finding its not so hard to say there is more than one way to do it. The ease in making a list of elements is cool (1...100); and using @ to make a list @giant = 1...1e5; The generate word list it nice as well gw< this list of words > Cool :D What are some of your favourite language elements to get work done ? ,Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 00:01:59 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 00:01:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> <1CCC10E6-CE3E-48B8-93C6-E0598128933E@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Adam Morris wrote: > > Try \x{8a0} instead. I think that \x normally accepts only two following >> characters, so you have to use \x{} for long hexadecimal numbers. >> > > You top posted, so I have to ignore you. > > Just kidding. I did try that and that didn't work either. Then I did > this... > > perl -pe 's/[[:ascii:]]//g ; s/(.)/$1\n/g' file.txt | sort | uniq -c >| > bad_chars.txt > > ...and when I looked at the resulting bad_chars.txt file in emacs again, > the characters looked different. Before they were appearing as purple > rectangles, but now they appeared as a pair of characters that looked like > this: \302\240 > > I could represent them exactly that way in perl and delete them. I don't > really get what was happening there. > I'm guessing you were looking at (possibly variable-length) unicode characters, and your perl filter split them into fixed-length octets or something. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 00:07:21 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 00:07:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Learning Perl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:01 AM, r j wrote: > I am really enjoying learning Perl right now and I love the array and list > operators. > After using python for a while I am finding its not so hard to say there is > more than one way to do it. > The ease in making a list of elements is cool (1...100); > and using @ to make a list @giant = 1...1e5; > The generate word list it nice as well gw< this list of words > > Cool :D > What are some of your favourite language elements to get work done ? > ,Ron > > Hi Ron, On the one hand I applaud your ability to step outside of Python and appreciate something different. On the other hand here's what a friend of mine had to say about Perl after developing in it for 10+ years and then finally moving to Python. "Ten years of Perl man. That shit rots your brain." As someone who also spent 10 years+ maintaining perl distros and debuggin legacy perl scripts, I have no option but to agree. Enjoy your time with Perl, but .... don't deploy anything into production if you don't have to. Those who come after you and maintain your code will thank you for it. -Rob (who is migrating from Perl to Ruby, with an eye on Python as a possible end-game beyond Ruby). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 00:22:12 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 00:22:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] @Rob ,Perl Message-ID: Rob: I am scheduled to take a lot of web programming classes this year. Perl happens to be one of them. I love Python. Would I be better off doing CGI in python ? How do you feel about HTML generated in Perl VS Python ? Any insite would be helpful, ,Ron P.S. "Perl that shit rots your brain man" hahahhahahhaha ! Yes I could see how it could. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sun Mar 6 08:21:57 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 08:21:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Learning Perl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 6, 2011, at 0:07 , Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:01 AM, r j wrote: > I am really enjoying learning Perl right now and I love the array and list operators. > After using python for a while I am finding its not so hard to say there is more than one way to do it. > The ease in making a list of elements is cool (1...100); > and using @ to make a list @giant = 1...1e5; > The generate word list it nice as well gw< this list of words > > Cool :D > What are some of your favourite language elements to get work done ? > ,Ron > > > Hi Ron, > > On the one hand I applaud your ability to step outside of Python and appreciate something different. On the other hand here's what a friend of mine had to say about Perl after developing in it for 10+ years and then finally moving to Python. > > "Ten years of Perl man. That shit rots your brain." > > As someone who also spent 10 years+ maintaining perl distros and debuggin legacy perl scripts, I have no option but to agree. > > Enjoy your time with Perl, but .... don't deploy anything into production if you don't have to. Those who come after you and maintain your code will thank you for it. > > -Rob (who is migrating from Perl to Ruby, with an eye on Python as a possible end-game beyond Ruby). As someone who writes production both Perl and Python code professionally (10+ years), this is one of the biggest things I see and disagree with on a normal basis. You can make very clean looking Perl code. Perl Tidy helps with this a lot, and forcing people to use a post-modern object system like Moose provides helps even more. Add in a requirement that everyone runs perltidy and perlcritic before they perform a check-in and you've got some code that you can show to Mom. I've actually seen cleaner Perl code than Python code on a frequent basis. That said, Perl makes it a lot easier to make really ugly looking code. There are many Perl programmers I've met over the years who seem to think they know more than Chronic and Conway when it comes to best practices and that's both frustrating and unprofessional. In my experiences Legacy code is riddled with this, but running it through perltidy usually helps when you've got to maintain something. It really boils down to the standards and practices you or your company implements. If you're using Perl for system administration tasks only, well I think all bets are off unless you police yourself. If you're using it for an actual application using a framework like Catalyst though, I know from experience its easy to make the code clean and readable. Back to Ron's question. My favorite element of Perl is CPAN and the maturity of the packages these days. You can find some excellent modules out there, such as the Moose Post-Modern Object System, Catalyst, and pretty much anything else you'll ever need. Another thing is POD. http://perldoc.perl.org/perlpod.html This is one of the best documentation formats I've ever used as its simple to write and does the job well the first time. Also, get a copy of Perl Best Practices now and read through it. It'll help you out a lot in the long run. -A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 11:06:55 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 11:06:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Learning Perl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Adam Morris wrote: > On Mar 6, 2011, at 0:07 , Robert Nesius wrote: > > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:01 AM, r j wrote: > >> I am really enjoying learning Perl right now and I love the array and list >> operators. >> After using python for a while I am finding its not so hard to say there >> is more than one way to do it. >> The ease in making a list of elements is cool (1...100); >> and using @ to make a list @giant = 1...1e5; >> The generate word list it nice as well gw< this list of words > >> Cool :D >> What are some of your favourite language elements to get work done ? >> ,Ron >> >> > Hi Ron, > > On the one hand I applaud your ability to step outside of Python and > appreciate something different. On the other hand here's what a friend of > mine had to say about Perl after developing in it for 10+ years and then > finally moving to Python. > > "Ten years of Perl man. That shit rots your brain." > > As someone who also spent 10 years+ maintaining perl distros and debuggin > legacy perl scripts, I have no option but to agree. > > Enjoy your time with Perl, but .... don't deploy anything into production > if you don't have to. Those who come after you and maintain your code will > thank you for it. > > -Rob (who is migrating from Perl to Ruby, with an eye on Python as a > possible end-game beyond Ruby). > > > As someone who writes production both Perl and Python code professionally > (10+ years), this is one of the biggest things I see and disagree with on a > normal basis. You *can* make very clean looking Perl code. Perl Tidy > helps with this a lot, and forcing people to use a post-modern object system > like Moose provides helps even more. Add in a requirement that everyone > runs perltidy and perlcritic before they perform a check-in and you've got > some code that you can show to Mom. I've actually seen cleaner Perl code > than Python code on a frequent basis. > > That said, Perl makes it a *lot* easier to make really ugly looking code. > There are many Perl programmers I've met over the years who seem to think > they know more than Chronic and Conway when it comes to best practices and > that's both frustrating and unprofessional. In my experiences Legacy code > is riddled with this, but running it through perltidy usually helps when > you've got to maintain something. > Adam nailed it, and everything he said is true. There is a bit of subjectivity here, but really it comes down to how you look at it. Adam looks at the above points - and concludes "Perl's a reasonable language to work in." For some people that's true, but I think those preconditions he listed point to a lot of risk. * Everyone runs perltidy. * Everyone runs perlcritic * Warnings on? * Use strict on? * Do you know the idiomatic best practices? Add to that some other considerations... * Object oriented functionality was bolted onto perl after the fact * Scalar vs. array-context considerations can cause a lot of unexpected things to happen * I never enjoyed de-referencing pointers in perl. Anyway, take all of the above and Andy is saying "See. You can get there." And my point is "Look at everything you need to do to get there. While you can write atrocious code in Ruby or Python, it's not as easy to do as it is in Perl, and conversely it takes more effort in Perl to get to elegant, clean code." That's really what it boils down to for me. My (possibly incorrect) view of Ruby and Python is they are refactorings of Perl. Both languages stepped back to the language design phase and tried to make a better dynamically typed interpreted language with object-oriented programming paradigms integrated from the ground up and I think they both are improvements. When I first started going to OSCON back when it was still the "Recently Renamed Perl Conference", Perl ruled the day. There were 15 bajillion books on perl, and nearly all of the conference talks about "cool stuff I did" were perl modules. On top of that Damien Conway is not just a "God of Perl", he's a "God of Presentations" and watching him do a talk makes you think "If I could get to his level, I could build my own light sabre.... in Perl!" :) But O'Reilly book sales figures tell the tale.... Perl book sales - drastically down. Python and Ruby book sales - dramatically up. Perl 6 is partly to blame for that, imho. It was announced with much fanfare, never arrived, and people got tired of waiting for the Perl Gods to deliver a better a perl because someone did it faster by delivering Python and Ruby. It really boils down to the standards and practices you or your company > implements. If you're using Perl for system administration tasks only, well > I think all bets are off unless you police yourself. If you're using it for > an actual application using a framework like Catalyst though, I know from > experience its easy to make the code clean and readable. > I think it takes far more effort and expertise to write "good, maintainable Perl code" and given the other improvements in the design of Ruby and Perl - why bother? > Back to Ron's question. My favorite element of Perl is CPAN and the > maturity of the packages these days. You can find some excellent modules > out there, such as the Moose Post-Modern Object System, Catalyst, and pretty > much anything else you'll ever need. > CPAN is pretty awesome. I'd also point any budding programmer to the Data::Dumper module, which will help you visualize your arrays of hashes of hashes and figure out where you're messing them up. Because you will mess them up. Btw, you better like #'s, $'s, and {}'s, and @'s because you're going to overdose on them. And that... is the brain-rot factor for me. :) I don't know what ORDM's look like in Perl these days? Are they as nice as ActiveRecord or Python's equivalent? > > Also, get a copy of Perl Best Practices now and read through it. It'll > help you out a lot in the long run. > I've also heard Damien Conway's "Object Oriented Perl" book is exceptionally well written and a worth-while read for both perl and non-perl programmers. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 11:07:47 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 11:07:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <547915.83333.qm@web114209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <6D33CDAA-778E-4617-B333-4879331EA6D5@redstargaming.net> <547915.83333.qm@web114209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: let us know if you need help burning an "iso" image, which is what you will end up with when you download. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:41 PM, terry houle wrote: > I will give the download a try. Thanks > > > --- On *Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris * wrote: > > > From: Adam Morris > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 9:13 PM > > > Not in my experiences. I would recommend using the Debian torrent for your > architecture: http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ > > Then you just burn it to DVD (or mount it to install it to a VM, which I > recommend for newbies personally) and you're set to install. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 21:09 , terry houle wrote: > > > It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was > reading. > > --- On *Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris > >* wrote: > > > From: Adam Morris > > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > > > Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM > > Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't > work for you? > > Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a > disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: > > I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell > just the CD or DVD? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one > locally. I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. > Any pointers appreciated. > > terry > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 11:16:47 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 11:16:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <4D72AEF4.5040803@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> <14E6DDD3-18E1-4E28-A2E2-B94073B8CCF1@redstargaming.net> <20110305195727.r8ptjpiflcs0wkwc@mail.cyberians.com> <1CCC10E6-CE3E-48B8-93C6-E0598128933E@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: i am such a loser. i totally enjoy this " bullshit drama that mushroom clouds into some crap-tangent." it gives me the will to move on through my bullshit mushroom cloud of a day. nah, just kidding, i love my life. this list has a huge amount of comic relief for me. On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Adam Morris wrote: >> >> Try \x{8a0} instead. I think that \x normally accepts only two following >>> characters, so you have to use \x{} for long hexadecimal numbers. >>> >> >> You top posted, so I have to ignore you. >> >> Just kidding. I did try that and that didn't work either. Then I did >> this... >> >> perl -pe 's/[[:ascii:]]//g ; s/(.)/$1\n/g' file.txt | sort | uniq -c >| >> bad_chars.txt >> >> ...and when I looked at the resulting bad_chars.txt file in emacs again, >> the characters looked different. Before they were appearing as purple >> rectangles, but now they appeared as a pair of characters that looked like >> this: \302\240 >> >> I could represent them exactly that way in perl and delete them. I don't >> really get what was happening there. >> > > I'm guessing you were looking at (possibly variable-length) unicode > characters, and your perl filter split them into fixed-length octets or > something. > > -Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Sun Mar 6 11:59:25 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 11:59:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] missing twm In-Reply-To: <4D70F356.8020801@whitleymott.net>; from tclugl@whitleymott.net on Fri, Mar 04, 2011 at 08:12:38AM -0600 References: <4D70F356.8020801@whitleymott.net> Message-ID: <20110306115925.N6917@real-time.com> On 03/04 08:12 , gregwm wrote: > but still missing twm's tiny ram footprint, can place miniaturized > window icons anywhere, vert zoom (same width full height), horiz zoom, > left zoom (left half full height), right zoom, top zoom, bottom zoom. > > any other wm with these or such features? I've not heard of 'left zoom' before; but I can see how some may like it. I used FVWM for well over a decade, with basically no config changes. I'm on an OSX box now; but I do miss FVWM quite often. If you like I'll mail you my old config file. PieWM had circular menus (much like the ones a friend showed me in Second Life); which seems like a marvelous interface idea. If I was a coder I would have tried to hack those into FVWM. PieWM was basically just TWM tho, and the codebase was from 1991. It may not compile anymore. Another great UI idea that KWM had with the B II theme was TWM-like partial-length title bars on windows. It would automatically rearrange them to show them (if possible) if you overlapped windows. So putting two windows one on top of another would cause one titlebar to slide to the right so you could see it behind the other window's titlebar. Being able to 'weld' windows together (either at the edges or with some degree of overlapping) and move them as groups is another idea that some WMs have explored; and seems like a great idea. Some terminal applications and web browser applications allow multiple 'tabs' for subwindows within the application; but it seems silly that this should be application-specific. better that it should be handled by the window manager so *all* applications can take advantage of it and not have to duplicate code. Now if only someone would put all these ideas together into one WM, and make it modular so it could be kept lightweight.... -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sun Mar 6 12:18:06 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 12:18:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Learning Perl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <590BF1C4-78E1-45B7-9944-BCEBA65E3675@redstargaming.net> I'm snipping a lot of the old stuff since it's getting rather large. On Mar 6, 2011, at 11:06 , Robert Nesius wrote: > Anyway, take all of the above and Andy is saying "See. You can get there." And my point is "Look at everything you need to do to get there. While you can write atrocious code in Ruby or Python, it's not as easy to do as it is in Perl, and conversely it takes more effort in Perl to get to elegant, clean code." That's really what it boils down to for me. See, that's where I disagree though. I also write C/C++ and (*sob*) C# .NET code professionally and both of those require a fair bit of effort to keep them clean too. At work, all of the C++ and C# code goes through Style Cop which performs the same functions that Perl Tidy and Perl Critic do. Ruby and Python aren't exempt from this. I would argue that while its still a tad bit easier to make nasty code in Perl (if you don't use strict), its as easy in Ruby. I've seen some... interesting code in Python so that isn't really exempt, but it is a hell of a lot better than Perl. I think part of Perl's problem is that it is a hackers language, and as such, brings those people to the table. I know I'm self taught and got my degree years later, and if I look at my Perl before I started school and finally realized the importance of readable code, I can barely read it. Its easy to knock Perl because it has things like pointer dereferencing and those $, @, and % characters for types which vex newbies so much, but I think more blame lies on the programmer writing the code than the language itself. In my experiences, there are a lot more crappy programmers out there than there are good ones. > My (possibly incorrect) view of Ruby and Python is they are refactorings of Perl. Both languages stepped back to the language design phase and tried to make a better dynamically typed interpreted language with object-oriented programming paradigms integrated from the ground up and I think they both are improvements. Sort of. IIRC, Ruby was kind of a language that was made just because the author wanted something with the power of Perl but also with the power of Smalltalk. I believe there was also some animosity between Wall and Matsumoto academically but I don't know the authenticity or details of that. Python is its own beast, and it was a development of ABC. Both Perl and Python have tried to emulate one another over the years (Perl is only 2 years older than Python, although Python was first publicly released in 1991). The big difference with Python was that it was OO and I think that's why it didn't catch on until much later. > When I first started going to OSCON back when it was still the "Recently Renamed Perl Conference", Perl ruled the day. There were 15 bajillion books on perl, and nearly all of the conference talks about "cool stuff I did" were perl modules. On top of that Damien Conway is not just a "God of Perl", he's a "God of Presentations" and watching him do a talk makes you think "If I could get to his level, I could build my own light sabre.... in Perl!" :) But O'Reilly book sales figures tell the tale.... Perl book sales - drastically down. Python and Ruby book sales - dramatically up. Perl 6 is partly to blame for that, imho. It was announced with much fanfare, never arrived, and people got tired of waiting for the Perl Gods to deliver a better a perl because someone did it faster by delivering Python and Ruby. Yeah, but both Python and Ruby had been around for a while. Python was pretty much equal to Perl at the time too. I think it was just good marketing on both Python's and Ruby's part. Perl 6 was taking too long and both Python and Ruby saw the opportunity. > It really boils down to the standards and practices you or your company implements. If you're using Perl for system administration tasks only, well I think all bets are off unless you police yourself. If you're using it for an actual application using a framework like Catalyst though, I know from experience its easy to make the code clean and readable. > > I think it takes far more effort and expertise to write "good, maintainable Perl code" and given the other improvements in the design of Ruby and Perl - why bother? Maturity and CPAN. I've found both Ruby and Python difficult languages to find good reliable third-party modules/libraries that I feel are good enough to be used in production code. Python less than Ruby... there are of course exceptions here, there are plenty of great modules for both of those languages. Its just that CPAN has gotten so mature that its much more difficult to find a bad module out there. So really, my stance is why wouldn't you use Perl? Its stable, it finally has releases coming out again, and most of all its mature. Python and Ruby are almost as old as Perl and still aren't as close to being mature as Perl is. > Back to Ron's question. My favorite element of Perl is CPAN and the maturity of the packages these days. You can find some excellent modules out there, such as the Moose Post-Modern Object System, Catalyst, and pretty much anything else you'll ever need. > > CPAN is pretty awesome. I'd also point any budding programmer to the Data::Dumper module, which will help you visualize your arrays of hashes of hashes and figure out where you're messing them up. Because you will mess them up. Btw, you better like #'s, $'s, and {}'s, and @'s because you're going to overdose on them. And that... is the brain-rot factor for me. :) > > I don't know what ORDM's look like in Perl these days? Are they as nice as ActiveRecord or Python's equivalent? DBIx::Class is pretty slick these days. I like the flexibility it offers over ActiveRecord and Django, but I have a colleague who would argue with me to no end saying that the Django model system is better. Ultimately I think all three of them are as powerful as the other; none of them really shines above the other. > Also, get a copy of Perl Best Practices now and read through it. It'll help you out a lot in the long run. > > I've also heard Damien Conway's "Object Oriented Perl" book is exceptionally well written and a worth-while read for both perl and non-perl programmers. > > -Rob Indeed. I don't believe it covers Moose though, and most OOP code you find these days uses that system. Its still good to know however so you know how the native OOP stuff works in Perl. -A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From auditodd at comcast.net Sun Mar 6 12:19:08 2011 From: auditodd at comcast.net (auditodd at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:19:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Direct to ADAM MORRIS: So let me get this straight.... You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' yourself? Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban yourself too? No need to ban me, I'm leaving. For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a year now anyway. Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without all the BS that list provides. ---------- Todd Young ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Morris" To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone This list uses mailman right? The administrator can set an email ban on him. I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? > > ---------- > Todd Young > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Wood" > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM > Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > > > > > I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the > C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that > writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. > In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate > 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't > an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on > the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you > $150/month for the first four months I work with them. > > -- > Brian Wood > Ebenezer Enterprises > http://webEbenezer.net > (651) 251-9384 > > > "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season > we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have > opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of > the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 6 12:23:09 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:23:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <541D6B80-871F-40C3-A198-B723FDBE34B6@me.com> Amen, but you don't have to leave, just ignore the a$$hats. On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 PM, auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: > > So let me get this straight.... > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' yourself? > > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban yourself too? > > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a year now anyway. > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without all the BS that list provides. > > ---------- > Todd Young > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Morris" > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > > This list uses mailman right? The administrator can set an email ban on him. I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? >> >> ---------- >> Todd Young >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brian Wood" >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> >> >> >> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >> >> -- >> Brian Wood >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> http://webEbenezer.net >> (651) 251-9384 >> >> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From houletr at yahoo.com Sun Mar 6 12:25:25 2011 From: houletr at yahoo.com (terry houle) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:25:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thank you for the offer. Apologize for my dumbness as have been away from this many years and a newbie back then and still am.? So ask some pretty dumb things as I know this is a pretty sophisticated group.? I have changed my mind and decided to go with Ubunto instead.? But now a question came up with what I downloaded from Ubunto. In the download I selected 64 bit from the drop down since I have a Intel P6100 2.00 g chip and Intel indicates that is a 64 bit.? Yet the Ubunto drop down recommended using the 32 bit.? But my dilemma with that 64 bit download is that is say AMD64.? I am not sure what it will be if I download the 32 bit as recommended. So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. Hope all that is clear and any help appreciated. terry --- On Sun, 3/6/11, Samael wrote: From: Samael Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 11:07 AM let us know if you need help burning an "iso" image, which is what you will end up with when you download. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:41 PM, terry houle wrote: I will give the download a try.? Thanks --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 9:13 PM Not in my experiences. ?I would recommend using the Debian torrent for your architecture: ?http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ Then you just burn it to DVD (or mount it to install it to a VM, which I recommend for newbies personally) and you're set to install. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 21:09 , terry houle wrote: It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was reading. --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't work for you? Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. Any pointers appreciated. terry _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sun Mar 6 12:39:43 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 12:39:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6D6C74C3-52F5-4043-8FC8-76C2A2C918A0@redstargaming.net> No problem, newbies are always welcome. Yes. AMD64 is supported by Intel's EM64T chips like the P6100. You can also run 32-bit stuff on it just fine, but I'd recommend going with the 64-bit. -A On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:25 , terry houle wrote: > Thank you for the offer. Apologize for my dumbness as have been away from this many years and a newbie back then and still am. So ask some pretty dumb things as I know this is a pretty sophisticated group. I have changed my mind and decided to go with Ubunto instead. > But now a question came up with what I downloaded from Ubunto. In the download I selected 64 bit from the drop down since I have a Intel P6100 2.00 g chip and Intel indicates that is a 64 bit. Yet the Ubunto drop down recommended using the 32 bit. But my dilemma with that 64 bit download is that is say AMD64. I am not sure what it will be if I download the 32 bit as recommended. > > So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? > > If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. > > Hope all that is clear and any help appreciated. > > terry > > --- On Sun, 3/6/11, Samael wrote: > > From: Samael > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 11:07 AM > > let us know if you need help burning an "iso" image, which is what you will end up with when you download. > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:41 PM, terry houle wrote: > I will give the download a try. Thanks > > > --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: > > From: Adam Morris > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 9:13 PM > > > Not in my experiences. I would recommend using the Debian torrent for your architecture: http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ > > Then you just burn it to DVD (or mount it to install it to a VM, which I recommend for newbies personally) and you're set to install. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 21:09 , terry houle wrote: > >> >> It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was reading. >> >> --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: >> >> From: Adam Morris >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? >> To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >> Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM >> >> Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't work for you? >> >> Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. >> >> -A >> >> On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: >> >>> I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally. I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. >>> Any pointers appreciated. >>> >>> terry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From houletr at yahoo.com Sun Mar 6 12:41:50 2011 From: houletr at yahoo.com (terry houle) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:41:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <6D6C74C3-52F5-4043-8FC8-76C2A2C918A0@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: <658657.85381.qm@web114220.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thank you for info and quick response. ;-) terry --- On Sun, 3/6/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 12:39 PM No problem, newbies are always welcome. Yes. ?AMD64 is supported by Intel's EM64T chips like the P6100. ?You can also run 32-bit stuff on it just fine, but I'd recommend going with the 64-bit. -A On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:25 , terry houle wrote: Thank you for the offer. Apologize for my dumbness as have been away from this many years and a newbie back then and still am.? So ask some pretty dumb things as I know this is a pretty sophisticated group.? I have changed my mind and decided to go with Ubunto instead.? But now a question came up with what I downloaded from Ubunto. In the download I selected 64 bit from the drop down since I have a Intel P6100 2.00 g chip and Intel indicates that is a 64 bit.? Yet the Ubunto drop down recommended using the 32 bit.? But my dilemma with that 64 bit download is that is say AMD64.? I am not sure what it will be if I download the 32 bit as recommended. So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. Hope all that is clear and any help appreciated. terry --- On Sun, 3/6/11, Samael wrote: From: Samael Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 11:07 AM let us know if you need help burning an "iso" image, which is what you will end up with when you download. On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:41 PM, terry houle wrote: I will give the download a try.? Thanks --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 9:13 PM Not in my experiences. ?I would recommend using the Debian torrent for your architecture: ?http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/ Then you just burn it to DVD (or mount it to install it to a VM, which I recommend for newbies personally) and you're set to install. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 21:09 , terry houle wrote: It sounded like it took a real long time from the Debian page I was reading. --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Adam Morris wrote: From: Adam Morris Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 8:47 PM Is there a reason downloading an ISO and burning it to a CD or DVD doesn't work for you? Another idea that wouldn't cost you any money is one of us could mail you a disk or meet somewhere and hand it off. -A On Mar 5, 2011, at 20:29 , terry houle wrote: I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to purchase one locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. Any pointers appreciated. terry _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sun Mar 6 12:44:25 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 12:44:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. Chill out. I was calling Brian Wood a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. I can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess either. Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. I was trying to answer that we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp?". -A On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: > > So let me get this straight.... > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' yourself? > > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban yourself too? > > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a year now anyway. > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without all the BS that list provides. > > ---------- > Todd Young > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Morris" > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > > This list uses mailman right? The administrator can set an email ban on him. I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. > > -A > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? >> >> ---------- >> Todd Young >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brian Wood" >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> >> >> >> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >> >> -- >> Brian Wood >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> http://webEbenezer.net >> (651) 251-9384 >> >> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From dan.smith225 at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 12:45:20 2011 From: dan.smith225 at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 12:45:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. Message-ID: So, I've been reading the email threads back and forth for the last few days. It has come to my attention that the admins for TCLUG need to step in and get some control on this list, or shut it down. TCLUG used to be a place where people could comment in if they had a suggestion if someone sent a question. Now it just seems that people only care about slamming people for what distribution of Linux they are using. Some have gone as far as slamming people over their religions. At this point, I've decided to also leave the TCLUG list. Because I also agree with what Todd said. "Google answers it much faster and without all the BS that the list provides." Maybe someday I'll return to TCLUG. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll just find a better list. Take care all. -- Dan Smith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 12:55:51 2011 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 12:55:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:25 PM, terry houle wrote: > Thank you for the offer. Apologize for my dumbness as have been away from this many years and a newbie back then and still am.? So ask some pretty dumb things as I know this is a pretty sophisticated > group.? I have changed my mind and decided to go with Ubunto instead. To save you from embarrassment somewhere less friendly than here, note that it's "Ubuntu", with three Us, rather than "Ubunto". > But now a question came up with what I downloaded from Ubunto. In the download I selected 64 bit from the drop down since I have a Intel P6100 2.00 g chip and Intel indicates that is a 64 bit.? Yet the > Ubunto drop down recommended using the 32 bit.? But my dilemma with that 64 bit download is that is say AMD64.? I am not sure what it will be if I download the 32 bit as recommended. Yeah, Canonical is still recommending 32-bit for everyone on the web site, presumably to minimize the chances of someone less technical getting confused if they try to run some kind of third-party software that happens to be 32-bit only, as some of that still exists out there. > So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? > > If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. Certainly. (The architecture is called "amd64" basically just because AMD did it first - it's the same stuff for AMD and Intel now.) - Tony Yarusso From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 13:07:56 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:07:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Flash and Skype, for example, are easier on 32 bit. On Mar 6, 2011 12:56 PM, "Tony Yarusso" wrote: > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:25 PM, terry houle wrote: >> Thank you for the offer. Apologize for my dumbness as have been away from this many years and a newbie back then and still am. So ask some pretty dumb things as I know this is a pretty sophisticated >> group. I have changed my mind and decided to go with Ubunto instead. > > To save you from embarrassment somewhere less friendly than here, note > that it's "Ubuntu", with three Us, rather than "Ubunto". > >> But now a question came up with what I downloaded from Ubunto. In the download I selected 64 bit from the drop down since I have a Intel P6100 2.00 g chip and Intel indicates that is a 64 bit. Yet the >> Ubunto drop down recommended using the 32 bit. But my dilemma with that 64 bit download is that is say AMD64. I am not sure what it will be if I download the 32 bit as recommended. > > Yeah, Canonical is still recommending 32-bit for everyone on the web > site, presumably to minimize the chances of someone less technical > getting confused if they try to run some kind of third-party software > that happens to be 32-bit only, as some of that still exists out > there. > >> So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? >> >> If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. > > Certainly. (The architecture is called "amd64" basically just because > AMD did it first - it's the same stuff for AMD and Intel now.) > > - Tony Yarusso > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.morris at redstargaming.net Sun Mar 6 13:21:00 2011 From: adam.morris at redstargaming.net (Adam Morris) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:21:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7204A6B0-F452-4105-9218-CB29EAD64C4F@redstargaming.net> Very true. Has Adobe brought back Flash 10 for Linux yet? -A On Mar 6, 2011, at 13:07 , Erik Mitchell wrote: > Flash and Skype, for example, are easier on 32 bit. > > On Mar 6, 2011 12:56 PM, "Tony Yarusso" wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:25 PM, terry houle wrote: > >> Thank you for the offer. Apologize for my dumbness as have been away from this many years and a newbie back then and still am. So ask some pretty dumb things as I know this is a pretty sophisticated > >> group. I have changed my mind and decided to go with Ubunto instead. > > > > To save you from embarrassment somewhere less friendly than here, note > > that it's "Ubuntu", with three Us, rather than "Ubunto". > > > >> But now a question came up with what I downloaded from Ubunto. In the download I selected 64 bit from the drop down since I have a Intel P6100 2.00 g chip and Intel indicates that is a 64 bit. Yet the > >> Ubunto drop down recommended using the 32 bit. But my dilemma with that 64 bit download is that is say AMD64. I am not sure what it will be if I download the 32 bit as recommended. > > > > Yeah, Canonical is still recommending 32-bit for everyone on the web > > site, presumably to minimize the chances of someone less technical > > getting confused if they try to run some kind of third-party software > > that happens to be 32-bit only, as some of that still exists out > > there. > > > >> So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? > >> > >> If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. > > > > Certainly. (The architecture is called "amd64" basically just because > > AMD did it first - it's the same stuff for AMD and Intel now.) > > > > - Tony Yarusso > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 14:48:27 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 14:48:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <7204A6B0-F452-4105-9218-CB29EAD64C4F@redstargaming.net> References: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <7204A6B0-F452-4105-9218-CB29EAD64C4F@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: Current version is 10.2.152.27. There's a preview of the 64 bit version, apparently. I've had some issues lately with Flash in Chromium on Ubuntu -- plugin crashing. Anyway, I'm pretty sure there is no 64-bit version of Skype, so if you want to use that, you should stick with 32bit. -Erik On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Adam Morris wrote: > Very true. ?Has Adobe brought back Flash 10 for Linux yet? > -A > On Mar 6, 2011, at 13:07 , Erik Mitchell wrote: > > Flash and Skype, for example, are easier on 32 bit. > > On Mar 6, 2011 12:56 PM, "Tony Yarusso" wrote: >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:25 PM, terry houle wrote: >>> Thank you for the offer. Apologize for my dumbness as have been away from >>> this many years and a newbie back then and still am.? So ask some pretty >>> dumb things as I know this is a pretty sophisticated >>> group.? I have changed my mind and decided to go with Ubunto instead. >> >> To save you from embarrassment somewhere less friendly than here, note >> that it's "Ubuntu", with three Us, rather than "Ubunto". >> >>> But now a question came up with what I downloaded from Ubunto. In the >>> download I selected 64 bit from the drop down since I have a Intel P6100 >>> 2.00 g chip and Intel indicates that is a 64 bit.? Yet the >>> Ubunto drop down recommended using the 32 bit.? But my dilemma with that >>> 64 bit download is that is say AMD64.? I am not sure what it will be if I >>> download the 32 bit as recommended. >> >> Yeah, Canonical is still recommending 32-bit for everyone on the web >> site, presumably to minimize the chances of someone less technical >> getting confused if they try to run some kind of third-party software >> that happens to be 32-bit only, as some of that still exists out >> there. >> >>> So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? >>> >>> If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction >>> set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. >> >> Certainly. (The architecture is called "amd64" basically just because >> AMD did it first - it's the same stuff for AMD and Intel now.) >> >> - Tony Yarusso >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 6 15:30:35 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 15:30:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Mac hardware Message-ID: Hey which one of you was the one who wanted some Mac hardware? If you still want some drop me an email. -Yaron -- From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 6 15:54:03 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:54:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Mac hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Samael On Mar 6, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Yaron wrote: > Hey which one of you was the one who wanted some Mac hardware? If you still want some drop me an email. > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 18:49:50 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 18:49:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Mar 2011, Dan Smith wrote: > At this point, I've decided to also leave the TCLUG list. Because I > also agree with what Todd said. "Google answers it much faster and > without all the BS that the list provides." > > Maybe someday I'll return to TCLUG. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll just find > a better list. I don't understand the need for an announcement. Some people won't get anything out of a list, so they shouldn't be on that list. There are a lot of lists that I'm not on, probably thousands of them. If I find that I'm on a list that doesn't help me, then I leave it. Do I post an announcement before leaving? Should I? Would anyone care that I was leaving? I've had a bunch of useful discussions on this list in the past few months. Mostly stuff about bash and text util techniques. It's good for me, but if someone else already knows all of that, or doesn't want to know about it, all of those discussions would have been a waste of time. If someone posts something you don't like, can't you just delete it? Another thing I've been getting from this list is announcements about the Penguins Unbound meetings. I like those. Mike From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 19:18:15 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:18:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale new Coolmaster V8 cooling solution, over-clocking cooling goodness Message-ID: <4D743257.7090202@gmail.com> OEM Specs: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=5279 I'm not up to date on cooling solutions but this one looks impressive especially for over-clockers (comes with adjustable fan control), and anything with V8 in it's name must to be powerful! Got this as a gift, but it is too big for my case (dimensions are 120 x 128 x 161.1 mm). It is new, but I did open the box to physically check the unit itself for sizing (dimensions were very close). $50 or make an offer. -- *Jeremy MountainJohnson* jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 6 19:37:32 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:37:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Mac hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well they can email me if they still want one! (; On Sun, 6 Mar 2011, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Samael > > > On Mar 6, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Yaron wrote: > >> Hey which one of you was the one who wanted some Mac hardware? If you still want some drop me an email. >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From mark.katerberg at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 19:52:20 2011 From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 19:52:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78280f46-11a2-4b37-9ca6-a3d1dbfd8ab8@email.android.com> Mike Miller wrote: >I don't understand the need for an announcement. >If someone posts something you don't like, can't you just delete it? > >Another thing I've been getting from this list is announcements about >the >Penguins Unbound meetings. I like those. > >Mike +1 -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From mastercactapus at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 19:54:52 2011 From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:54:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. In-Reply-To: <78280f46-11a2-4b37-9ca6-a3d1dbfd8ab8@email.android.com> References: <78280f46-11a2-4b37-9ca6-a3d1dbfd8ab8@email.android.com> Message-ID: +1 On Mar 6, 2011 7:52 PM, "mark.katerberg at gmail.com" wrote: Mike Miller wrote: >I don't understand the need for an announcement. >If someone posts something you don't like, can't you just delete it? > >Another thing I've been get... +1 -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 20:04:20 2011 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 20:04:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. In-Reply-To: <78280f46-11a2-4b37-9ca6-a3d1dbfd8ab8@email.android.com> References: <78280f46-11a2-4b37-9ca6-a3d1dbfd8ab8@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4D743D24.3010706@gmail.com> +1 I don't know what people are complaining about, nor will I, I deleted that portion of this thread. There are some great people in this group and we will stick around. Some moderation would be nice, but bottom line, if you can't take the bad apples in the pile you are free to leave, just don't chalk us all up as being bad. *Jeremy MountainJohnson* jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com On 03/06/2011 07:52 PM, mark.katerberg at gmail.com wrote: > > Mike Miller wrote: >> I don't understand the need for an announcement. >> If someone posts something you don't like, can't you just delete it? >> >> Another thing I've been getting from this list is announcements about >> the >> Penguins Unbound meetings. I like those. >> >> Mike > +1 From mastercactapus at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 20:17:46 2011 From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 20:17:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. In-Reply-To: <4D743D24.3010706@gmail.com> References: <78280f46-11a2-4b37-9ca6-a3d1dbfd8ab8@email.android.com> <4D743D24.3010706@gmail.com> Message-ID: +2 On Mar 6, 2011 8:04 PM, "Jeremy MountainJohnson" < jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote: +1 I don't know what people are complaining about, nor will I, I deleted that portion of this thread. There are some great people in this group and we will stick around. Some moderation would be nice, but bottom line, if you can't take the bad apples in the pile you are free to leave, just don't chalk us all up as being bad. *Jeremy MountainJohnson* jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com On 03/06/2011 07:52 PM, mark.katerberg at gmail.com wrote: > > > Mike Miller ... _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesot... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 20:51:55 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 20:51:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: i think our moto on this list should be to forgive and forget. i am not saying to stop arguing, just that when we are done we move on and forget whatever and whoever we were fighting with before we aired our grievances. On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Adam Morris wrote: > Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. Chill out. I was calling Brian Wood > a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled > "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. I > can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess either. > > Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. I was trying to answer that > we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban this > troll/twerp?". > > -A > > On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > > > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: > > > > So let me get this straight.... > > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' > yourself? > > > > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban > yourself too? > > > > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. > > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults > 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. > > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a year > now anyway. > > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without all > the BS that list provides. > > > > ---------- > > Todd Young > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Adam Morris" > > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > > > > This list uses mailman right? The administrator can set an email ban on > him. I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine > with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the > whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. > > > > -A > > > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > > > >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? > >> > >> ---------- > >> Todd Young > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brian Wood" > >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM > >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the > >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that > >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. > >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate > >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't > >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on > >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you > >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. > >> > >> -- > >> Brian Wood > >> Ebenezer Enterprises > >> http://webEbenezer.net > >> (651) 251-9384 > >> > >> > >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season > >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have > >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of > >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Sun Mar 6 21:45:01 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 21:45:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: gawd i hate bottom posting. On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Samael wrote: > i think our moto on this list should be to forgive and forget. > i am not saying to stop arguing, just that when we are done we move on and > forget whatever and whoever we were fighting with before we aired our > grievances. > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Adam Morris > wrote: >> >> Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. ?Chill out. ?I was calling Brian Wood >> a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled >> "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. ?I >> can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess either. >> >> Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. ?I was trying to answer that >> we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban this >> troll/twerp?". >> >> -A >> >> On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >> >> > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: >> > >> > So let me get this straight.... >> > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' >> > yourself? >> > >> > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban >> > yourself too? >> > >> > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. >> > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults >> > 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. >> > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a >> > year now anyway. >> > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without >> > all the BS that list provides. >> > >> > ---------- >> > Todd Young >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Adam Morris" >> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >> > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM >> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> > >> > This list uses mailman right? ?The administrator can set an email ban on >> > him. ?I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine >> > with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the >> > whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. >> > >> > -A >> > >> > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >> > >> >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >> Todd Young >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Brian Wood" >> >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM >> >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >> >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >> >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >> >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >> >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >> >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >> >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >> >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Brian Wood >> >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> (651) 251-9384 >> >> >> >> >> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season >> >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have >> >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of >> >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 From jus at krytosvirus.com Sun Mar 6 22:00:11 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 04:00:11 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: <414378864-1299470412-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1360179478-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> +1 for a literal lol Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Jensen Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 21:45:01 To: TCLUG Mailing List Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone gawd i hate bottom posting. On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Samael wrote: > i think our moto on this list should be to forgive and forget. > i am not saying to stop arguing, just that when we are done we move on and > forget whatever and whoever we were fighting with before we aired our > grievances. > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Adam Morris > wrote: >> >> Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. ?Chill out. ?I was calling Brian Wood >> a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled >> "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. ?I >> can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess either. >> >> Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. ?I was trying to answer that >> we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban this >> troll/twerp?". >> >> -A >> >> On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >> >> > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: >> > >> > So let me get this straight.... >> > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' >> > yourself? >> > >> > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban >> > yourself too? >> > >> > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. >> > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults >> > 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. >> > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a >> > year now anyway. >> > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without >> > all the BS that list provides. >> > >> > ---------- >> > Todd Young >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Adam Morris" >> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >> > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM >> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> > >> > This list uses mailman right? ?The administrator can set an email ban on >> > him. ?I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine >> > with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the >> > whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. >> > >> > -A >> > >> > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >> > >> >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >> Todd Young >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Brian Wood" >> >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM >> >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >> >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >> >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >> >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >> >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >> >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >> >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >> >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Brian Wood >> >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> (651) 251-9384 >> >> >> >> >> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season >> >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have >> >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of >> >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From jjensen at apache.org Sun Mar 6 22:03:20 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 22:03:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: <414378864-1299470412-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1360179478-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> <414378864-1299470412-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1360179478-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: :-) still lmao.... On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:00 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > +1 for a literal lol > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Jensen > Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 21:45:01 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > > gawd i hate bottom posting. > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Samael wrote: >> i think our moto on this list should be to forgive and forget. >> i am not saying to stop arguing, just that when we are done we move on and >> forget whatever and whoever we were fighting with before we aired our >> grievances. >> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Adam Morris >> wrote: >>> >>> Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. ?Chill out. ?I was calling Brian Wood >>> a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled >>> "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. ?I >>> can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess either. >>> >>> Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. ?I was trying to answer that >>> we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban this >>> troll/twerp?". >>> >>> -A >>> >>> On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >>> >>> > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: >>> > >>> > So let me get this straight.... >>> > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' >>> > yourself? >>> > >>> > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban >>> > yourself too? >>> > >>> > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. >>> > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults >>> > 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. >>> > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a >>> > year now anyway. >>> > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without >>> > all the BS that list provides. >>> > >>> > ---------- >>> > Todd Young >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Adam Morris" >>> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >>> > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >>> > >>> > This list uses mailman right? ?The administrator can set an email ban on >>> > him. ?I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine >>> > with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the >>> > whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. >>> > >>> > -A >>> > >>> > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >>> > >>> >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? >>> >> >>> >> ---------- >>> >> Todd Young >>> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Brian Wood" >>> >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM >>> >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >>> >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >>> >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >>> >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >>> >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >>> >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >>> >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >>> >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Brian Wood >>> >> Ebenezer Enterprises >>> >> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >> (651) 251-9384 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season >>> >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have >>> >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of >>> >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 6 22:08:17 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 22:08:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer Message-ID: Yes, YOU can be the proud owner of a LASER PRINTER. Not just ANY Laser Printer, but a piece of COMPUTING HISTORY! Ok not really. It's an HP LaserJet 4si, which means it's a) A friggin workhorse, and b) A HUGE MONSTER. It does work - even has toner in it. Hell I'll even help you carry it out of my basement office and into your (hopefully large) car. It can only use parallel printer ports, and includes a cable. You know you want it. You want it if only to experience the awesome wonder of sending a file to print and having the lights in your entire house dim. -Yaron -- From nesius at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 22:14:03 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 22:14:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Learning Perl In-Reply-To: <590BF1C4-78E1-45B7-9944-BCEBA65E3675@redstargaming.net> References: <590BF1C4-78E1-45B7-9944-BCEBA65E3675@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Adam Morris wrote: > > On Mar 6, 2011, at 11:06 , Robert Nesius wrote: > > Anyway, take all of the above and Andy is saying "See. You can get > there." And my point is "Look at everything you need to do to get there. > While you can write atrocious code in Ruby or Python, it's not as easy to do > as it is in Perl, and conversely it takes more effort in Perl to get to > elegant, clean code." That's really what it boils down to for me. > > > See, that's where I disagree though. I also write C/C++ and (*sob*) C# > .NET code professionally and both of those require a fair bit of effort to > keep them clean too. At work, all of the C++ and C# code goes through Style > Cop which performs the same functions that Perl Tidy and Perl Critic do. > Well - we can just stop there then, though I think referencing C/C++ and C# is a bit of a strawman - those are statically typed languages, yeah? They come with their own baggage and thus weren't even a point of consideration for me in the scope of this debate. With that said you're right, all good programming shops have style guides for whatever language they are working in. > Its easy to knock Perl because it has things like pointer dereferencing and > those $, @, and % characters for types which vex newbies so much, but I > think more blame lies on the programmer writing the code than the language > itself. > No.... those symbols aren't optional. The language says you have to use them. So really, my stance is why *wouldn't* you use Perl? Its stable, it finally > has releases coming out again, and most of all its mature. Python and Ruby > are almost as old as Perl and still aren't as close to being mature as Perl > is. > I think you're mixing two issues together. There's Perl, the language. CPAN is separate from that. Whenever I consider a programming project I consider the language, and the availability of modules related to the task at hand. Why wouldn't I use Perl? I don't want to prefix every variable with a $ or @ or % sign. I hate the syntax around complicated data structures. I like strings that are objects. Etc... And really I'm just sick of Perl. Indeed. I don't believe it covers Moose though, and most OOP code you find > these days uses that system. Its still good to know however so you know how > the native OOP stuff works in Perl. > I'm really not familiar with Moose. I just spent some time looking over the documents. Definitely a nice step forward. At the same time, it still looks like perl. I don't think you or I are going to change each other's mind, Andy, but hopefully people enjoyed the debate. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 22:45:23 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 22:45:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Dan Smith wrote: > > > At this point, I've decided to also leave the TCLUG list. Because I also > agree with what Todd said. "Google answers it much faster and without all > the BS that the list provides." > > Maybe someday I'll return to TCLUG. Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll just find a > better list. > > Take care all. > > I think you should be on a LUG list to be a part of the Linux Community on a local/regional basis. Not sure I see a problem with Google being responsive and helpful - I generally try to find answers on my own (with Google) before imposing on other people's time. As for the religion thing, I think some people would do well to remember it's possible to like a lot of the things about Linux and Open Source AND subscribe to a religion. But before you, Dan, get your axle bent about the response to Brian Wood I would suggest you consider the what the opposite extreme behavior would be. "I'm looking to partner with some people who don't believe in (religious belief/diety) on rolling a custom embedded distro for a real-time network device for a consulting gig." What does belief have to do with any of that? Nothing. Which makes that kind of a remark inappropriate with respect to this community. And not only is religion not relevant here, it's a hot button topic for many. Putting the two together is bound to get some strong reactions, and that's exactly what Brian Wood got. I don't see the problem. But I'm not religious, so I don't see strong reactions to Brian Wood's posts as indirect attacks against my belief system. If I was a moderator I would not be taking action against the people who reacted strongly to Mr. Wood. I would have sent Mr. Wood a private message, a public message to the list letting them know I had engaged Brian as a moderator privately to head off some of those strong responses, and I would have then banned him on his next "in-kind" post. In any case, I'm not going to rage-quit just because I don't like how a situation like that is being handled, or not handled. But if it makes you feel better... Cheers, -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nesius at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 23:03:41 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 23:03:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Tony Yarusso wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:25 PM, terry houle wrote: > > So the question is will the 64bit AMD run with my Intel chip? > > > > If I download the 32 bit as recommended will that be an Intel instruction > set and still be ok with my 64 bit chip. > > Certainly. (The architecture is called "amd64" basically just because > AMD did it first - it's the same stuff for AMD and Intel now.) > Just to follow up on that with some history... Intel was planning on keeping it's "consumer" desktop chips 32-bit for much longer than they did. Their view was 64-bit was a high-end enterprise/scientific requirement and they didn't want to bolt on 64-bit functionality on top of the x86 instruction set/architecture. Rather, they wanted to stick to 64-bits in their nice 64-bit-from-the-ground-up Itanium processor and force people who needed it to pay more. Basically, Intel wanted 64-bit computing to drive demand for Itanium. At that time, AMD was looking for a competitive advantage and also perceived the demand, so they created their own instruction set, layered it over the x86 architecture, and shoved it out the door. It was a genius move, and while it took awhile for all of the software to catch up, people who wanted 64-bit computing on a cheap processor were buying AMD processors. Intel quickly realized they'd missed an opportunity and, in an amusing turn around of circumstances, reverse engineered and implemented the AMD64 instruction set. Intel calls the 64-bit extensions "em64t". But any linux distro telling you what your Intel processor with em64t technology is will report it as AMD64, because that's what it is. If you run the "file" command on any 64-bit binaries, I'm pretty sure they will be reported as AMD64... -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sraun at fireopal.org Mon Mar 7 00:29:00 2011 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:29:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Mac hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110307062900.GC14955@fireopal.org> On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 03:30:35PM -0600, Yaron wrote: > Hey which one of you was the one who wanted some Mac hardware? If you > still want some drop me an email. I'm kind of interested - I'm in the 'I really need to learn more about that ecosystem'. -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From sraun at fireopal.org Mon Mar 7 00:30:47 2011 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:30:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 10:08:17PM -0600, Yaron wrote: > Yes, YOU can be the proud owner of a LASER PRINTER. Not just ANY Laser > Printer, but a piece of COMPUTING HISTORY! > > Ok not really. It's an HP LaserJet 4si, which means it's a) A friggin > workhorse, and b) A HUGE MONSTER. > > It does work - even has toner in it. Hell I'll even help you carry it out > of my basement office and into your (hopefully large) car. It can only > use parallel printer ports, and includes a cable. Now this last I _know_ is not true. I used to put JetDirect cards in those behemoths. Then they do network printing just fine. But if you don't already have one, yeah, it's either parallel or find one. -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 7 00:32:45 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:32:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> References: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Scott Raun wrote: > Now this last I _know_ is not true. I used to put JetDirect cards in > those behemoths. Then they do network printing just fine. Yeah, and if you attach a jet engine to it it can probably go pretty fast, too. I'm only talking about the one I'm giving away, though! (: -Yaron -- From mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 00:42:38 2011 From: mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com (Mark Mitchell) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:42:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 10:08 PM, Yaron wrote: > Yes, YOU can be the proud owner of a LASER PRINTER. Not just ANY Laser > Printer, but a piece of COMPUTING HISTORY! > > Ok not really. It's an HP LaserJet 4si, which means it's a) A friggin > workhorse, and b) A HUGE MONSTER. > > It does work - even has toner in it. Hell I'll even help you carry it out > of my basement office and into your (hopefully large) car. It can only use > parallel printer ports, and includes a cable. > > You know you want it. You want it if only to experience the awesome wonder > of sending a file to print and having the lights in your entire house dim. > If I had a car, I'd be all over this. However, being car-free, and limited to what I can fit in my panniers, I'll have to hold off. If, however, the printer is still available when my xtracycle arrives, I'd be interested. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 00:54:40 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:54:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How to handle the trolls: http://unarmed.shlomifish.org/909.html It might work. I don't think ignoring them is a bad idea, though. Mike From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 7 00:55:21 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:55:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Mark Mitchell wrote: > If, however, the printer is still available when my xtracycle arrives, I'd > be interested.? While the whole no-car thing is commendable, I don't see anything on xtracycle's website that would hold this thing. When I say it's a huge monster, I mean it. I only found one GIS that shows the scale of the thing, but sadly it seems to be down. If you actually want this thing, I'd see if you can get someone to give you a lift! -Yaron -- From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 02:30:35 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 02:30:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You Message-ID: Thank you *all* for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it no choice. I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could easily get to like Perl as well. I can safely say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into production if I can help it. I would agree with standards and best practices. Also documenting the code properly. I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as possible. Does anyone else use ipython ? My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of humor, and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug it is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support center. It is a bunch of local people who love Linux ! I wish I could have made it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have answered my questions in the past very thoroughly along with others in a team effort. Long live the TCLUG ! M= Man looking for an argument A= Arguer (John Cleese) M: I came here for a good argument. A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. M: An argument isn't just contradiction. A: It can be. M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. A: No it isn't. M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' A: Yes it is! M: No it isn't! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Mon Mar 7 06:20:24 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 06:20:24 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: ; from tclug@freakzilla.com on Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 12:32:45AM -0600 References: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <20110307062024.O6917@real-time.com> On 03/07 12:32 , Yaron wrote: > On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Scott Raun wrote: > > > Now this last I _know_ is not true. I used to put JetDirect cards in > > those behemoths. Then they do network printing just fine. > > Yeah, and if you attach a jet engine to it it can probably go pretty fast, > too. I'm only talking about the one I'm giving away, though! (: I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "Given sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine". Really tho, by today's standards the Laserjet4 is nearly indestructible. Also, pretty much every OS that regularly sent stuff to a printer will have a driver for it. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From tlunde at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 07:35:35 2011 From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 07:35:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20110307062024.O6917@real-time.com> References: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> <20110307062024.O6917@real-time.com> Message-ID: If it will help someone along to taking this, I'm pretty sure that I have a spare external HP JetDirect box that will manage the parallel to Ethernet problem. Speaks TCP/IP, IPX/SPX & heaven knows what else. On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:20 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 03/07 12:32 , Yaron wrote: >> On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Scott Raun wrote: >> >>> Now this last I _know_ is not true. I used to put JetDirect cards in >>> those behemoths. Then they do network printing just fine. >> >> Yeah, and if you attach a jet engine to it it can probably go pretty fast, >> too. I'm only talking about the one I'm giving away, though! (: > > I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "Given sufficient thrust, pigs fly > just fine". > > Really tho, by today's standards the Laserjet4 is nearly indestructible. > Also, pretty much every OS that regularly sent stuff to a printer will have > a driver for it. > > -- > Carl Soderstrom > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 07:42:17 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 07:42:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: [...] we do not forgive, we do not forget, [...] On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Samael wrote: > i think our moto on this list should be to forgive and forget. > i am not saying to stop arguing, just that when we are done we move on and > forget whatever and whoever we were fighting with before we aired our > grievances. > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Adam Morris > wrote: >> >> Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. ?Chill out. ?I was calling Brian Wood >> a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled >> "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. ?I >> can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess either. >> >> Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. ?I was trying to answer that >> we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban this >> troll/twerp?". >> >> -A >> >> On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >> >> > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: >> > >> > So let me get this straight.... >> > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' >> > yourself? >> > >> > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban >> > yourself too? >> > >> > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. >> > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults >> > 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. >> > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a >> > year now anyway. >> > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without >> > all the BS that list provides. >> > >> > ---------- >> > Todd Young >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Adam Morris" >> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >> > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM >> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> > >> > This list uses mailman right? ?The administrator can set an email ban on >> > him. ?I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine >> > with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the >> > whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. >> > >> > -A >> > >> > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >> > >> >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >> Todd Young >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Brian Wood" >> >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM >> >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >> >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >> >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >> >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >> >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >> >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >> >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >> >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Brian Wood >> >> Ebenezer Enterprises >> >> http://webEbenezer.net >> >> (651) 251-9384 >> >> >> >> >> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season >> >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have >> >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of >> >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From mastercactapus at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 07:55:49 2011 From: mastercactapus at gmail.com (Nathan Caza) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 07:55:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: nice reference; though let us not forget #14 of the rules of the internet :) On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > [...] > we do not forgive, > we do not forget, > [...] > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Samael wrote: >> i think our moto on this list should be to forgive and forget. >> i am not saying to stop arguing, just that when we are done we move on and >> forget whatever and whoever we were fighting with before we aired our >> grievances. >> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Adam Morris >> wrote: >>> >>> Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. ?Chill out. ?I was calling Brian Wood >>> a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled >>> "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. ?I >>> can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess either. >>> >>> Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. ?I was trying to answer that >>> we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban this >>> troll/twerp?". >>> >>> -A >>> >>> On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >>> >>> > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: >>> > >>> > So let me get this straight.... >>> > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' >>> > yourself? >>> > >>> > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban >>> > yourself too? >>> > >>> > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. >>> > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults >>> > 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. >>> > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a >>> > year now anyway. >>> > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without >>> > all the BS that list provides. >>> > >>> > ---------- >>> > Todd Young >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Adam Morris" >>> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" >>> > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >>> > >>> > This list uses mailman right? ?The administrator can set an email ban on >>> > him. ?I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be fine >>> > with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start the >>> > whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. >>> > >>> > -A >>> > >>> > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: >>> > >>> >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? >>> >> >>> >> ---------- >>> >> Todd Young >>> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Brian Wood" >>> >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM >>> >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the >>> >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that >>> >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. >>> >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate >>> >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't >>> >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on >>> >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you >>> >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Brian Wood >>> >> Ebenezer Enterprises >>> >> http://webEbenezer.net >>> >> (651) 251-9384 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season >>> >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have >>> >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of >>> >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > > -- > Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > erik at ekmitchell.com > http://ekmitchell.com/ > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From samael.anon at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 08:12:12 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 08:12:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone In-Reply-To: References: <1481922971.2016607.1299435548407.JavaMail.root@sz0147a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2BC06518-05B5-4F9D-BE66-86091787B61A@redstargaming.net> Message-ID: this is SPARTA On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:55 AM, Nathan Caza wrote: > nice reference; though let us not forget #14 of the rules of the internet > :) > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Erik Mitchell > wrote: > > [...] > > we do not forgive, > > we do not forget, > > [...] > > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Samael wrote: > >> i think our moto on this list should be to forgive and forget. > >> i am not saying to stop arguing, just that when we are done we move on > and > >> forget whatever and whoever we were fighting with before we aired our > >> grievances. > >> > >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Adam Morris < > adam.morris at redstargaming.net> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Wow... I wasn't calling you a troll. Chill out. I was calling Brian > Wood > >>> a troll (as had you) given his post that he had recently done, titled > >>> "Top-Posting" where he stated he wouldn't respond to any top posters. > I > >>> can't stand the people on this list who argue about that stupid mess > either. > >>> > >>> Seriously, take a chill pill and relax a bit. I was trying to answer > that > >>> we could ban Brian Wood given your question "Is there any way to ban > this > >>> troll/twerp?". > >>> > >>> -A > >>> > >>> On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:19 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > >>> > >>> > Direct to ADAM MORRIS: > >>> > > >>> > So let me get this straight.... > >>> > You are calling ME a troll for 'top posting' and yet you 'top posted' > >>> > yourself? > >>> > > >>> > Kind of the pot calling the kettle black? So are you going to ban > >>> > yourself too? > >>> > > >>> > No need to ban me, I'm leaving. > >>> > For someone to have a hissy fit over the way an email client defaults > >>> > 'reply to' posts is just childish and silly. > >>> > I haven't read anything worthwhile on this mail forum for at least a > >>> > year now anyway. > >>> > Whenever I have a question, Google answers it much faster and without > >>> > all the BS that list provides. > >>> > > >>> > ---------- > >>> > Todd Young > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: "Adam Morris" > >>> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" > >>> > Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 4:13:07 PM > >>> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > >>> > > >>> > This list uses mailman right? The administrator can set an email ban > on > >>> > him. I know I don't post frequently, but I can definitely say I'd be > fine > >>> > with this troll getting banned, especially since he's trying to start > the > >>> > whole "top-posting" war we had about a year ago. > >>> > > >>> > -A > >>> > > >>> > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:52 , auditodd at comcast.net wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Is there any way to ban this troll/twerp? > >>> >> > >>> >> ---------- > >>> >> Todd Young > >>> >> > >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> >> From: "Brian Wood" > >>> >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> >> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:50:21 AM > >>> >> Subject: [tclug-list] A little something for everyone > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> I'm looking to partner with G-dly people willing to use the > >>> >> C++ Middleware Writer -- an on line code generator that > >>> >> writes C++ marshalling code based on high-level user input. > >>> >> In exchange for using the C++ Middleware Writer, I'll donate > >>> >> 18 hours/week for six months to their project. If you aren't > >>> >> an orthodox Jew or pro-life Christian, you can still get in on > >>> >> the action. If you refer someone to me for this, I'll pay you > >>> >> $150/month for the first four months I work with them. > >>> >> > >>> >> -- > >>> >> Brian Wood > >>> >> Ebenezer Enterprises > >>> >> http://webEbenezer.net > >>> >> (651) 251-9384 > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> "And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season > >>> >> we shall reap if we do not lose heart. Therefore, as we have > >>> >> opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of > >>> >> the household of faith." Galatians 6:9-11 > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer > > erik.mitchell at gmail.com > > erik at ekmitchell.com > > http://ekmitchell.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 08:21:56 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 08:21:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i second your second >My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of humor, and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug it is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support center. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j wrote: > Thank you *all* for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it > no choice. > I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could easily get > to like Perl as well. > I can safely say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into > production if I can help it. I would agree with standards and best > practices. > Also documenting the code properly. > I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as possible. > Does anyone else use ipython ? > > My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of humor, > and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug it > is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support > center. > It is a bunch of local people who love Linux ! I wish I could have made it > to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. > Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have answered my questions in the past > very thoroughly along with others in a team effort. > Long live the TCLUG ! > > > M= Man looking for an argument > > A= Arguer (John Cleese) > > > M: I came here for a good argument. > A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. > M: An argument isn't just contradiction. > A: It can be. > M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended > to establish a proposition. > A: No it isn't. > M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. > A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. > M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' > A: Yes it is! > M: No it isn't! > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Mon Mar 7 09:16:49 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:16:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I completely disagree. You guys don't know what you are talking about. If only you had real experience, you'd see the light. Did you actually try it? May a 1000 camels give birth in your underwear. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Samael wrote: > i second your second > >>My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of humor, >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. ?When I post to the lug it is > because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support center. > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j wrote: >> >> Thank you all for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it no >> choice. >> I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could easily >> get to like Perl as well. >> I can?safely?say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into >> production if I can help it. I would agree with?standards?and best >> practices. >> Also documenting the code properly. >> I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as?possible. >> Does anyone else use ipython ? >> My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of humor, >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >> I also take religion or lack there of lightly. ?When I post to the lug it >> is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >> center. >> It is a?bunch?of local people who love Linux ! ?I wish I could have made >> it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. >> Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have?answered?my questions in the past >> very?thoroughly along with others in a team effort. >> Long live the TCLUG ! >> >> M= Man looking for an argument >> A= Arguer (John Cleese) >> >> M: ?I came here for a good argument. >> A: ??No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. >> M: ?An argument isn't just contradiction. >> A: ??It can be. >> M: ?No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended >> to establish a proposition. >> A: ??No it isn't. >> M: ?Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. >> A: ??Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. >> M: ?Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' >> A: ??Yes it is! >> M: ??No it isn't! From j at packetgod.com Mon Mar 7 09:21:16 2011 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:21:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thats a very interesting point, what part do you disagree with? Many people agree or disagree with various different points that are made here. And there are many here who do like camels1. --j PS: Do I pass my troll handing test? PPS: TOP POST in your face! On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > I completely disagree. You guys don't know what you are talking > about. If only you had real experience, you'd see the light. Did you > actually try it? May a 1000 camels give birth in your underwear. > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Samael wrote: > > i second your second > > > >>My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of humor, > >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. > > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug it > is > > because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support > center. > > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j wrote: > >> > >> Thank you all for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it > no > >> choice. > >> I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could easily > >> get to like Perl as well. > >> I can safely say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into > >> production if I can help it. I would agree with standards and best > >> practices. > >> Also documenting the code properly. > >> I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as possible. > >> Does anyone else use ipython ? > >> My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of > humor, > >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. > >> I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug > it > >> is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support > >> center. > >> It is a bunch of local people who love Linux ! I wish I could have made > >> it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. > >> Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have answered my questions in the past > >> very thoroughly along with others in a team effort. > >> Long live the TCLUG ! > >> > >> M= Man looking for an argument > >> A= Arguer (John Cleese) > >> > >> M: I came here for a good argument. > >> A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. > >> M: An argument isn't just contradiction. > >> A: It can be. > >> M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements > intended > >> to establish a proposition. > >> A: No it isn't. > >> M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. > >> A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. > >> M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' > >> A: Yes it is! > >> M: No it isn't! > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Mon Mar 7 09:29:21 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:29:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LMAO yet again... On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:21 AM, J Cruit wrote: > Thats a very interesting point, what part do you disagree with? ?Many people > agree or disagree with various different points that are made here. ?And > there are many here who do like camels1. > --j > PS: Do I pass my troll handing test? > PPS: TOP POST in your face! > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >> >> I completely disagree. ?You guys don't know what you are talking >> about. ?If only you had real experience, you'd see the light. ?Did you >> actually try it? ?May a 1000 camels give birth in your underwear. >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Samael wrote: >> > i second your second >> > >> >>My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >> >> humor, >> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >> > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. ?When I post to the lug >> > it is >> > because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >> > center. >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j wrote: >> >> >> >> Thank you all for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it >> >> no >> >> choice. >> >> I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could easily >> >> get to like Perl as well. >> >> I can?safely?say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into >> >> production if I can help it. I would agree with?standards?and best >> >> practices. >> >> Also documenting the code properly. >> >> I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as?possible. >> >> Does anyone else use ipython ? >> >> My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >> >> humor, >> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >> >> I also take religion or lack there of lightly. ?When I post to the lug >> >> it >> >> is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >> >> center. >> >> It is a?bunch?of local people who love Linux ! ?I wish I could have >> >> made >> >> it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. >> >> Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have?answered?my questions in the past >> >> very?thoroughly along with others in a team effort. >> >> Long live the TCLUG ! >> >> >> >> M= Man looking for an argument >> >> A= Arguer (John Cleese) >> >> >> >> M: ?I came here for a good argument. >> >> A: ??No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. >> >> M: ?An argument isn't just contradiction. >> >> A: ??It can be. >> >> M: ?No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements >> >> intended >> >> to establish a proposition. >> >> A: ??No it isn't. >> >> M: ?Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. >> >> A: ??Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. >> >> M: ?Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' >> >> A: ??Yes it is! >> >> M: ??No it isn't! >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jeruvin at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 09:38:33 2011 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:38:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7782148716508815284@unknownmsgid> Oh man. I got top post in my face. To the restroom stat! Jason Reynolds On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:21 AM, J Cruit wrote: Thats a very interesting point, what part do you disagree with? Many people agree or disagree with various different points that are made here. And there are many here who do like camels1. --j PS: Do I pass my troll handing test? PPS: TOP POST in your face! On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > I completely disagree. You guys don't know what you are talking > about. If only you had real experience, you'd see the light. Did you > actually try it? May a 1000 camels give birth in your underwear. > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Samael wrote: > > i second your second > > > >>My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of humor, > >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. > > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug it > is > > because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support > center. > > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j wrote: > >> > >> Thank you all for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it > no > >> choice. > >> I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could easily > >> get to like Perl as well. > >> I can safely say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into > >> production if I can help it. I would agree with standards and best > >> practices. > >> Also documenting the code properly. > >> I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as possible. > >> Does anyone else use ipython ? > >> My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of > humor, > >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. > >> I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug > it > >> is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support > >> center. > >> It is a bunch of local people who love Linux ! I wish I could have made > >> it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. > >> Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have answered my questions in the past > >> very thoroughly along with others in a team effort. > >> Long live the TCLUG ! > >> > >> M= Man looking for an argument > >> A= Arguer (John Cleese) > >> > >> M: I came here for a good argument. > >> A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. > >> M: An argument isn't just contradiction. > >> A: It can be. > >> M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements > intended > >> to establish a proposition. > >> A: No it isn't. > >> M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. > >> A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. > >> M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' > >> A: Yes it is! > >> M: No it isn't! > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 09:45:00 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:45:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: <7782148716508815284@unknownmsgid> References: <7782148716508815284@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: i personally would take a 100 of anything in my pants, with the exception of camels. my experience is that camels are severely lacking in what it is i like about things in my pants. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:38 AM, jason reynolds wrote: > Oh man. I got top post in my face. To the restroom stat! > > Jason Reynolds > > On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:21 AM, J Cruit wrote: > > Thats a very interesting point, what part do you disagree with? Many > people agree or disagree with various different points that are made here. > And there are many here who do like camels1. > > --j > > PS: Do I pass my troll handing test? > > PPS: TOP POST in your face! > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Jeff Jensen < > jjensen at apache.org> wrote: > >> I completely disagree. You guys don't know what you are talking >> about. If only you had real experience, you'd see the light. Did you >> actually try it? May a 1000 camels give birth in your underwear. >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Samael < >> samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote: >> > i second your second >> > >> >>My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >> humor, >> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >> > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug >> it is >> > because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >> center. >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j < >> ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Thank you all for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it >> no >> >> choice. >> >> I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could easily >> >> get to like Perl as well. >> >> I can safely say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into >> >> production if I can help it. I would agree with standards and best >> >> practices. >> >> Also documenting the code properly. >> >> I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as possible. >> >> Does anyone else use ipython ? >> >> My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >> humor, >> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >> >> I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug >> it >> >> is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >> >> center. >> >> It is a bunch of local people who love Linux ! I wish I could have >> made >> >> it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. >> >> Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have answered my questions in the past >> >> very thoroughly along with others in a team effort. >> >> Long live the TCLUG ! >> >> >> >> M= Man looking for an argument >> >> A= Arguer (John Cleese) >> >> >> >> M: I came here for a good argument. >> >> A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. >> >> M: An argument isn't just contradiction. >> >> A: It can be. >> >> M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements >> intended >> >> to establish a proposition. >> >> A: No it isn't. >> >> M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. >> >> A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. >> >> M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' >> >> A: Yes it is! >> >> M: No it isn't! >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 09:48:23 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:48:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: References: <7782148716508815284@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: this reminds me of an office space reference. "i always overlook some mundane detail" i obviously meant 1000 of anything because 100 would be kids stuff. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Samael wrote: > i personally would take a 100 of anything in my pants, with the exception > of camels. my experience is that camels are severely lacking in what it is > i like about things in my pants. > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:38 AM, jason reynolds wrote: > >> Oh man. I got top post in my face. To the restroom stat! >> >> Jason Reynolds >> >> On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:21 AM, J Cruit wrote: >> >> Thats a very interesting point, what part do you disagree with? Many >> people agree or disagree with various different points that are made here. >> And there are many here who do like camels1. >> >> --j >> >> PS: Do I pass my troll handing test? >> >> PPS: TOP POST in your face! >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Jeff Jensen < >> jjensen at apache.org> wrote: >> >>> I completely disagree. You guys don't know what you are talking >>> about. If only you had real experience, you'd see the light. Did you >>> actually try it? May a 1000 camels give birth in your underwear. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Samael < >>> samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote: >>> > i second your second >>> > >>> >>My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >>> humor, >>> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >>> > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug >>> it is >>> > because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >>> center. >>> > >>> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j < >>> ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Thank you all for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in it >>> no >>> >> choice. >>> >> I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could >>> easily >>> >> get to like Perl as well. >>> >> I can safely say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into >>> >> production if I can help it. I would agree with standards and best >>> >> practices. >>> >> Also documenting the code properly. >>> >> I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as possible. >>> >> Does anyone else use ipython ? >>> >> My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >>> humor, >>> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >>> >> I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug >>> it >>> >> is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >>> >> center. >>> >> It is a bunch of local people who love Linux ! I wish I could have >>> made >>> >> it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. >>> >> Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have answered my questions in the past >>> >> very thoroughly along with others in a team effort. >>> >> Long live the TCLUG ! >>> >> >>> >> M= Man looking for an argument >>> >> A= Arguer (John Cleese) >>> >> >>> >> M: I came here for a good argument. >>> >> A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. >>> >> M: An argument isn't just contradiction. >>> >> A: It can be. >>> >> M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements >>> intended >>> >> to establish a proposition. >>> >> A: No it isn't. >>> >> M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. >>> >> A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. >>> >> M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' >>> >> A: Yes it is! >>> >> M: No it isn't! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kris.browne at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 10:27:39 2011 From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kris Browne) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:27:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: References: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> <20110307062024.O6917@real-time.com> Message-ID: No fair inserting reason into the conversation.... I call shenanigans! Kris Browne kris.browne at gmail.com 612-353-6969 612-408-4431 http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne "the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have to write." - Steve Jobs On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 07:35, Thomas Lunde wrote: > If it will help someone along to taking this, I'm pretty sure that I have a > spare external HP JetDirect box that will manage the parallel to Ethernet > problem. Speaks TCP/IP, IPX/SPX & heaven knows what else. > > > > On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:20 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom > wrote: > > > On 03/07 12:32 , Yaron wrote: > >> On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Scott Raun wrote: > >> > >>> Now this last I _know_ is not true. I used to put JetDirect cards in > >>> those behemoths. Then they do network printing just fine. > >> > >> Yeah, and if you attach a jet engine to it it can probably go pretty > fast, > >> too. I'm only talking about the one I'm giving away, though! (: > > > > I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "Given sufficient thrust, pigs > fly > > just fine". > > > > Really tho, by today's standards the Laserjet4 is nearly indestructible. > > Also, pretty much every OS that regularly sent stuff to a printer will > have > > a driver for it. > > > > -- > > Carl Soderstrom > > Systems Administrator > > Real-Time Enterprises > > www.real-time.com > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at packetgod.com Mon Mar 7 10:37:26 2011 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:37:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Humor: Microsoft Begs Users to Get off of IE6 Message-ID: You all have probably seen the news and the site: http://ie6countdown.com/ So I've changed all my browsers to identify as ie6 just to mess with them... now I just need to start a movement to get others to do the same, at least for a little while. Or at the very least start scripting some mass browsing (wget --user-agent=MSIE6.0; Windows 2000) --j -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at packetgod.com Mon Mar 7 10:43:48 2011 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:43:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Thank You In-Reply-To: References: <7782148716508815284@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I am going to have to come down on the pro-camel stance. While my underwear would necessarily be very large to accommodate a caravan of camels of that size I think the experiment would be worth the effort. Plus with them all giving birth I'd have 2000 camels, I'd totally be rich, to me that would be worth the hassle of having them in my underpants. --j On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Samael wrote: > this reminds me of an office space reference. "i always overlook some > mundane detail" i obviously meant 1000 of anything because 100 would be > kids stuff. > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Samael wrote: > >> i personally would take a 100 of anything in my pants, with the exception >> of camels. my experience is that camels are severely lacking in what it is >> i like about things in my pants. >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:38 AM, jason reynolds wrote: >> >>> Oh man. I got top post in my face. To the restroom stat! >>> >>> Jason Reynolds >>> >>> On Mar 7, 2011, at 9:21 AM, J Cruit wrote: >>> >>> Thats a very interesting point, what part do you disagree with? Many >>> people agree or disagree with various different points that are made here. >>> And there are many here who do like camels1. >>> >>> --j >>> >>> PS: Do I pass my troll handing test? >>> >>> PPS: TOP POST in your face! >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Jeff Jensen < >>> jjensen at apache.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I completely disagree. You guys don't know what you are talking >>>> about. If only you had real experience, you'd see the light. Did you >>>> actually try it? May a 1000 camels give birth in your underwear. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Samael < >>>> samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > i second your second >>>> > >>>> >>My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >>>> humor, >>>> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >>>> > I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the lug >>>> it is >>>> > because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >>>> center. >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:30 AM, r j < >>>> ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Thank you all for your feed back on Perl. I have to take a class in >>>> it no >>>> >> choice. >>>> >> I do prefer Python __import_this__ ! But I can see how you could >>>> easily >>>> >> get to like Perl as well. >>>> >> I can safely say I don't think I will ever put any Perl code into >>>> >> production if I can help it. I would agree with standards and best >>>> >> practices. >>>> >> Also documenting the code properly. >>>> >> I am going to stick to python for my web work as much as possible. >>>> >> Does anyone else use ipython ? >>>> >> My second comment is about this list. I love it. I have a sense of >>>> humor, >>>> >> and I do so enjoy the flame wars. They crack me up. >>>> >> I also take religion or lack there of lightly. When I post to the >>>> lug it >>>> >> is because I know it is a local thing not huge community or a support >>>> >> center. >>>> >> It is a bunch of local people who love Linux ! I wish I could have >>>> made >>>> >> it to the beer meeting. That sounded like a good time. >>>> >> Carl, Yaron, Rob, & Jason have answered my questions in the past >>>> >> very thoroughly along with others in a team effort. >>>> >> Long live the TCLUG ! >>>> >> >>>> >> M= Man looking for an argument >>>> >> A= Arguer (John Cleese) >>>> >> >>>> >> M: I came here for a good argument. >>>> >> A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument. >>>> >> M: An argument isn't just contradiction. >>>> >> A: It can be. >>>> >> M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements >>>> intended >>>> >> to establish a proposition. >>>> >> A: No it isn't. >>>> >> M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction. >>>> >> A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position. >>>> >> M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.' >>>> >> A: Yes it is! >>>> >> M: No it isn't! >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jima at beer.tclug.org Mon Mar 7 11:57:41 2011 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:57:41 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Humor: Microsoft Begs Users to Get off of IE6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D751C95.5030708@beer.tclug.org> On 03/07/2011 10:37 AM, J Cruit wrote: > You all have probably seen the news and the site: > > http://ie6countdown.com/ > > So I've changed all my browsers to identify as ie6 just to mess with > them... now I just need to start a movement to get others to do the > same, at least for a little while. Or at the very least start scripting > some mass browsing (wget --user-agent=MSIE6.0; Windows 2000) Believe it or not, when it comes to IPv6, IE5 is better than IE6 on Windows 2000. However, IE6 on XP does support IPv6. Odd, that. (Of course, to have IPv6 on Win2K, you either need to be running SP1, or have a v6 stack hacked to run on newer service packs.) Personally I don't recommend forging your useragent as IE6, because that gives it a (false) perception of relevance, which often drives management decisions regarding web coding practices. Jima From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 12:09:56 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 12:09:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Humor: Microsoft Begs Users to Get off of IE6 In-Reply-To: <4D751C95.5030708@beer.tclug.org> References: <4D751C95.5030708@beer.tclug.org> Message-ID: > ?Personally I don't recommend forging your useragent as IE6, because > that gives it a (false) perception of relevance, which often drives > management decisions regarding web coding practices. I agree with this. -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From chrome at real-time.com Mon Mar 7 12:21:57 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 12:21:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Humor: Microsoft Begs Users to Get off of IE6 In-Reply-To: <4D751C95.5030708@beer.tclug.org>; from jima@beer.tclug.org on Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 11:57:41AM -0600 References: <4D751C95.5030708@beer.tclug.org> Message-ID: <20110307122157.S6917@real-time.com> On 03/07 11:57 , Jima wrote: > Personally I don't recommend forging your useragent as IE6, because > that gives it a (false) perception of relevance, which often drives > management decisions regarding web coding practices. If you really want to mess with your user agent string; set it to a browser like Dillo, Grail, or Vimperator. Vimperator is cool for its tagline as well as its UI. "First came Navigator, then Explorer, then Konqueror, now Vimperator." http://vimperator.org/home -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 13:38:30 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:38:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Humor: Microsoft Begs Users to Get off of IE6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, J Cruit wrote: > You all have probably seen the news and the site: > > http://ie6countdown.com/ > > So I've changed all my browsers to identify as ie6 just to mess with > them... now I just need to start a movement to get others to do the > same, at least for a little while. Or at the very least start scripting > some mass browsing (wget --user-agent=MSIE6.0; Windows 2000) crontab: * * * * * /usr/bin/wget -q -O- --user-agent=MSIE6.0 http://www.microsoft.com/ &> /dev/null But maybe that would be considered abuse. Mike From chrome at real-time.com Mon Mar 7 13:52:39 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:52:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Humor: Microsoft Begs Users to Get off of IE6 In-Reply-To: ; from mbmiller+l@gmail.com on Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 01:38:30PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20110307135239.U6917@real-time.com> On 03/07 01:38 , Mike Miller wrote: > crontab: > > * * * * * /usr/bin/wget -q -O- --user-agent=MSIE6.0 http://www.microsoft.com/ &> /dev/null > > But maybe that would be considered abuse. Retribution. Tho not necessarily constructively so. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From andyzib at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 14:04:37 2011 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:04:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <491441.3658.qm@web114211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In theory, as long as you have the 32-bit compatibility libraries installed, 32-bit software ill run fine on a 64-bit OS. On the Windows side of things web browsers are defaulting to 32-bit versions due mostly to 32-bit only 3rd party plug-ins like Adobe Flash. I haven't had an opportunity to muck around with a 64-bit Linux desktop (CLI only 64-bit servers so far) myself but I would think you would be able to do the same thing with the web browser to get working plug-ins. That may even be the default for Firefox on Ubuntu. My unconfirmed suspension is that Iceweasel on Debian is compiled as 64-bit. -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From wdtj at yahoo.com Mon Mar 7 19:58:27 2011 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 17:58:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU Message-ID: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor I ordered the wrong CPU. This is an AM2+ CPU and my board needed an AM3. In an opened box. I paid $135.99. I'll give it away for $100, cash. My mistake is your gain. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samael.anon at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 20:23:36 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 20:23:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU In-Reply-To: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: they will return it. i have returned to them before. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 > Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor > > I ordered the wrong CPU. This is an AM2+ CPU and my board needed an AM3. > In an opened box. I paid $135.99. I'll give it away for $100, cash. My > mistake is your gain. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 7 20:27:13 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 20:27:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU In-Reply-To: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If it's still in the box newegg will no doubt let you return it. But if this helps anyone, I have a motherboard that used to have that exact CPU in it, and I'm pretty sure that the CPU is what fried on there. It's an ABIT AN9 32x, has 8 gigs of RAM on it and if anyone wants to have it FOR FREE and try Wayne's CPU on it, let me know. Man I have a lot of parts I don't need. On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Wayne Johnson wrote: > AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 > Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor > > I ordered the wrong CPU.? This is an AM2+ CPU and my board needed an AM3.? > In an opened box.? I paid $135.99.? I'll give it away for $100, cash.? My > mistake is your gain. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 > ? > --- > Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > > -Yaron -- From wdtj at yahoo.com Mon Mar 7 20:29:55 2011 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:29:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU In-Reply-To: References: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <271737.93479.qm@web162008.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I tried. Not CPUs --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ________________________________ From: Samael To: TCLUG Mailing List Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:23:36 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU they will return it. i have returned to them before. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor > >I ordered the wrong CPU. This is an AM2+ CPU and my board needed an AM3. In >an opened box. I paid $135.99. I'll give it away for $100, cash. My mistake >is your gain. > > >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 > > --- >Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those >3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," >Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, >(612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 7 20:38:57 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:38:57 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU In-Reply-To: <271737.93479.qm@web162008.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <271737.93479.qm@web162008.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99542D0C-1913-41E3-8394-B2061BAAB585@me.com> Yeah, there's no way to prove it was never tried to be used and fried. On Mar 7, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > I tried. Not CPUs > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > From: Samael > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:23:36 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU > > they will return it. i have returned to them before. > > > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor > > I ordered the wrong CPU. This is an AM2+ CPU and my board needed an AM3. In an opened box. I paid $135.99. I'll give it away for $100, cash. My mistake is your gain. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 > > --- > Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those > 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," > Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, > (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wdtj at yahoo.com Mon Mar 7 20:42:20 2011 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:42:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU In-Reply-To: <99542D0C-1913-41E3-8394-B2061BAAB585@me.com> References: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <271737.93479.qm@web162008.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <99542D0C-1913-41E3-8394-B2061BAAB585@me.com> Message-ID: <581959.56384.qm@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Their policy is replacement of exact model only for CPUs. --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ________________________________ From: Ryan Coleman To: TCLUG Mailing List Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:38:57 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU Yeah, there's no way to prove it was never tried to be used and fried. On Mar 7, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: I tried. Not CPUs > > --- >Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those >3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," >Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, >(612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis > > > > > > ________________________________ From: Samael >To: TCLUG Mailing List >Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:23:36 PM >Subject: Re: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb >3.0GHz Quad Core CPU > >they will return it. i have returned to them before. > > > > >On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > >AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache >Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor >> >>I ordered the wrong CPU. This is an AM2+ CPU and my board needed an AM3. In an >>opened box. I paid $135.99. I'll give it away for $100, cash. My mistake is >>your gain. >> >>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 >> >> --- >>Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those >>3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," >>Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, >>(612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >tclug-list at mn-linux.org >http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Mon Mar 7 20:43:23 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:43:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU In-Reply-To: <581959.56384.qm@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <371427.79548.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <271737.93479.qm@web162008.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <99542D0C-1913-41E3-8394-B2061BAAB585@me.com> <581959.56384.qm@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Or that :) On Mar 7, 2011, at 8:42 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > Their policy is replacement of exact model only for CPUs. > > > From: Ryan Coleman > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:38:57 PM > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU > > Yeah, there's no way to prove it was never tried to be used and fried. > > On Mar 7, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: > >> I tried. Not CPUs >> >> From: Samael >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:23:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] For sale: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz Quad Core CPU >> >> they will return it. i have returned to them before. >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Wayne Johnson wrote: >> AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor >> >> I ordered the wrong CPU. This is an AM2+ CPU and my board needed an AM3. In an opened box. I paid $135.99. I'll give it away for $100, cash. My mistake is your gain. >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 21:27:18 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:27:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <0000184150@penguinpackets.com> References: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <0000184150@penguinpackets.com> Message-ID: kelly cried from the depths of the abyss... > > Microcenter has Slackware 13.1 (current release): > > http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0346632 > Yeah Baby! From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 21:29:26 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:29:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <514779.62125.qm@web114203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: terry houle cried from the depths of the abyss... > I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to > purchase one locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. > Any pointers appreciated. > > terry Take a trip to a bookstore, and hit the periodical section. There are a few magazines that come with various distros on DVD. From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 22:41:06 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 22:41:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF in Progress Message-ID: I needed a new server for storing backups at work, and decided to give Centos 5.5 a shot (I haven't touched Red Hat since the late 90's (or should I say that other upstream vendor)). I was pleasantly surprised how well the install went with my hardware (3ware raid card mainly was my concern). Setting up samba/Kerberos/winbind & attaching to our M$ domain was easy as pie. All in all a good experience. I am a bit concerned about the high memory consumption though. I turned off xserver/gnome & a handful of other unneeded things to lean it out, but I am shocked how much RAM it is using. All I want this box to do is be a file server, and nothing more. Here is what it is showing: [bob at bigdaddy init.d]$ free -m total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3828 3804 24 0 83 3492 -/+ buffers/cache: 228 3600 Swap: 2000 0 2000 I have no intention of ever using any GUIlishous X anything on this box. Here are the programs that set to run level 3 ON. [root at bigdaddy ~]# chkconfig --list | grep 3:on PBEAgent 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off anacron 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off auditd 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off avahi-daemon 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off crond 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off firstboot 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:off 5:on 6:off hidd 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off irqbalance 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off jexec 0:on 1:on 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:on kudzu 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off lm_sensors 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off lvm2-monitor 0:off 1:on 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off mcstrans 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off network 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off ntpd 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:off 5:on 6:off readahead_early 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off restorecond 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off setroubleshoot 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off smb 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off sshd 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off syslog 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off tdm2 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off winbind 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off xfs 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off xinetd 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off yum-updatesd 0:off 1:off 2:on 3:on 4:on 5:on 6:off Can anyone recommend any of these I can turn off safely? Also, what is a good way to actually check with is hogging all the memory? Here is the output from ps aux. It looks like java is out of control. Is this normal? # ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND root 1 0.0 0.0 10352 700 ? Ss Mar03 0:00 init [3] root 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [migration/0] root 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SN Mar03 0:00 [ksoftirqd/0] root 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [watchdog/0] root 5 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [migration/1] root 6 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SN Mar03 0:01 [ksoftirqd/1] root 7 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [watchdog/1] root 8 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [events/0] root 9 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [events/1] root 10 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [khelper] root 47 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [kthread] root 52 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [kblockd/0] root 53 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:05 [kblockd/1] root 54 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [kacpid] root 165 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [cqueue/0] root 166 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [cqueue/1] root 169 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [khubd] root 171 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [kseriod] root 247 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S Mar03 0:00 [khungtaskd] root 248 0.2 0.0 0 0 ? S Mar03 13:43 [pdflush] root 249 0.1 0.0 0 0 ? S Mar03 11:47 [pdflush] root 250 0.1 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 6:39 [kswapd0] root 251 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [aio/0] root 252 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [aio/1] root 392 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [kpsmoused] root 427 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [ata/0] root 428 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [ata/1] root 429 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [ata_aux] root 433 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [scsi_eh_0] root 434 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [scsi_eh_1] root 435 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [scsi_eh_2] root 436 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [scsi_eh_3] root 440 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [scsi_eh_4] root 444 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [kstriped] root 457 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [ksnapd] root 460 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:04 [md0_raid1] root 463 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:17 [md1_raid1] root 464 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:13 [kjournald] root 490 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S< Mar03 0:00 [kauditd] root 523 0.0 0.0 13040 1224 ? S References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > [bob at bigdaddy init.d]$ free -m > ? ? ? ? ? ? total ? ? ? used ? ? ? free ? ? shared ? ?buffers ? ? cached > Mem: ? ? ? ? ?3828 ? ? ? 3804 ? ? ? ? 24 ? ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ? ? 83 ? ? ? 3492 > -/+ buffers/cache: ? ? ? ?228 ? ? ? 3600 > Swap: ? ? ? ? 2000 ? ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ? 2000 There's not actually anything terribly concerning here. Look at the *second* line - you only have 228MB of RAM actually being used "for real" - the rest is just cache. The Linux kernel is designed to make use of all available memory for performance reasons, so it will keep loading things as caches until it runs out of stuff to load or RAM to fill. The second line tells you how much is in use disregarding those caches. > Here is the output from ps aux. ?It looks like java is out of control. ?Is > this normal? Yes, Java has a reputation for being a resource hog. - Tony From jus at krytosvirus.com Tue Mar 8 07:05:20 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:05:20 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1453274430-1299589522-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-367384315-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Yep, you can see your swap usage is zero, additionally you can tweak your vm.swappiness sysctl setting. I usually drop mine down to 10 to reduce its preference of using swap on my laptop and servers when I know my RAM capacity will be sufficient for normal operations. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Tony Yarusso Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 23:36:22 To: TCLUG Mailing List Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF in Progress On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > [bob at bigdaddy init.d]$ free -m > ? ? ? ? ? ? total ? ? ? used ? ? ? free ? ? shared ? ?buffers ? ? cached > Mem: ? ? ? ? ?3828 ? ? ? 3804 ? ? ? ? 24 ? ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ? ? 83 ? ? ? 3492 > -/+ buffers/cache: ? ? ? ?228 ? ? ? 3600 > Swap: ? ? ? ? 2000 ? ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ? 2000 There's not actually anything terribly concerning here. Look at the *second* line - you only have 228MB of RAM actually being used "for real" - the rest is just cache. The Linux kernel is designed to make use of all available memory for performance reasons, so it will keep loading things as caches until it runs out of stuff to load or RAM to fill. The second line tells you how much is in use disregarding those caches. > Here is the output from ps aux. ?It looks like java is out of control. ?Is > this normal? Yes, Java has a reputation for being a resource hog. - Tony _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From blutgens at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 07:34:38 2011 From: blutgens at gmail.com (Ben) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 07:34:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF in Progress In-Reply-To: <1453274430-1299589522-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-367384315-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1453274430-1299589522-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-367384315-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: For the original poster this page covers the memory usage quite well: http://www.linuxhowtos.org/System/Linux%20Memory%20Management.htm On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Yep, you can see your swap usage is zero, additionally you can tweak your > vm.swappiness sysctl setting. I usually drop mine down to 10 to reduce its > preference of using swap on my laptop and servers when I know my RAM > capacity will be sufficient for normal operations. > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Yarusso > Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 23:36:22 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF in Progress > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > > [bob at bigdaddy init.d]$ free -m > > total used free shared buffers cached > > Mem: 3828 3804 24 0 83 3492 > > -/+ buffers/cache: 228 3600 > > Swap: 2000 0 2000 > > There's not actually anything terribly concerning here. Look at the > *second* line - you only have 228MB of RAM actually being used "for > real" - the rest is just cache. The Linux kernel is designed to make > use of all available memory for performance reasons, so it will keep > loading things as caches until it runs out of stuff to load or RAM to > fill. The second line tells you how much is in use disregarding those > caches. > > > Here is the output from ps aux. It looks like java is out of control. > Is > > this normal? > > Yes, Java has a reputation for being a resource hog. > > - Tony > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Ben Lutgens Linux / Unix System Administror Three of your friends throw up after eating chicken salad. Do you think: "I should find more robust friends" or "we should check that refrigerator"? -- Donald Becker, on vortex-bug, suspecting a network-wide problem -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 07:48:27 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 07:48:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF in Progress In-Reply-To: References: <1453274430-1299589522-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-367384315-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4D7633AB.90905@gmail.com> On 3/8/2011 7:34 AM, Ben cried from the depths of the abyss: > For the original poster this page covers the memory usage quite well: > http://www.linuxhowtos.org/System/Linux%20Memory%20Management.htm > Thanks Guys! I Appreciate it! B-o-B > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Justin Krejci > wrote: > > Yep, you can see your swap usage is zero, additionally you can tweak > your vm.swappiness sysctl setting. I usually drop mine down to 10 to > reduce its preference of using swap on my laptop and servers when I > know my RAM capacity will be sufficient for normal operations. > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Yarusso > > Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 23:36:22 > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF in Progress > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Mr. B-o-B > wrote: > > [bob at bigdaddy init.d]$ free -m > > total used free shared buffers > cached > > Mem: 3828 3804 24 0 83 > 3492 > > -/+ buffers/cache: 228 3600 > > Swap: 2000 0 2000 > > There's not actually anything terribly concerning here. Look at the > *second* line - you only have 228MB of RAM actually being used "for > real" - the rest is just cache. The Linux kernel is designed to make > use of all available memory for performance reasons, so it will keep > loading things as caches until it runs out of stuff to load or RAM to > fill. The second line tells you how much is in use disregarding those > caches. > > > Here is the output from ps aux. It looks like java is out of > control. Is > > this normal? > > Yes, Java has a reputation for being a resource hog. > > - Tony From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 12:48:23 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:48:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF Message-ID: Use *free -m* for a quick look at your memory usage output total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3953 1698 2254 0 90 785 -/+ buffers/cache: 822 3131 Swap: 6015 0 6015 use* vmstat -s* to see if your swapping vmstat output 4048108 K total memory 1747880 K used memory 866392 K active memory 560416 K inactive memory 2300228 K free memory 93160 K buffer memory 804660 K swap cache 6160380 K total swap 0 K used swap 6160380 K free swap 96978 non-nice user cpu ticks 541 nice user cpu ticks 44279 system cpu ticks 10538685 idle cpu ticks 25511 IO-wait cpu ticks 6 IRQ cpu ticks 962 softirq cpu ticks 0 stolen cpu ticks 693226 pages paged in 826457 pages paged out * 0 pages swapped in #not swapping 0 pages swapped out* # not swapping 6823749 interrupts 24520953 CPU context switches 1299596129 boot time 4074 forks Java processes can be passed a -Xmx option. This controls the maximum Java memory heap size. It is important to set a limit on the heap size, otherwise the heap will keep increasing until you get out of memory errors. If you are running a custom Java application, check there is a -XmxNNm (where NN is a number of megabytes) option on the Java command line. Bash Java command java -Xmx1G -Xms1G -jar your_server.jar That would allocate one gig of ram for Java. (way too much) I am not a Java master but I hope that helps, Ron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Tue Mar 8 13:17:01 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:17:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Centos 5.5 WTF In-Reply-To: ; from ronsmailbox5@gmail.com on Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 12:48:23PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20110308131701.Z6917@real-time.com> On 03/08 12:48 , r j wrote: > Java processes can be passed a -Xmx option. This controls the maximum Java > memory heap size. It is important to set a limit on the heap size, > otherwise the heap will keep increasing until you get out of memory errors. > If you are running a custom Java application, check there is a -XmxNNm > (where NN is a number of megabytes) option on the Java command line. That's a really helpful tip. Thanks for passing it along! -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From houletr at yahoo.com Tue Mar 8 14:45:07 2011 From: houletr at yahoo.com (terry houle) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:45:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks and I did that last night at Borders Richfield.? Half off on all mags.? Finally got Mint to load on my Lenovo.? Had been quite a chose and could not get Ubunto to finalize install. I won't even tell you how many hours as too embarassing thanks for the tip terry --- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mr. B-o-B wrote: From: Mr. B-o-B Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 9:29 PM terry houle cried from the depths of the abyss... > I am a newbie with Linux. Wondering if there are stores in town that sell just the CD or DVD?? Rather than mail in for it would like to > purchase one locally.? I am thinking Debian at the moment but have not decided for sure. > Any pointers appreciated. > > terry Take a trip to a bookstore, and hit the periodical section.? There are a few magazines that come with various distros on DVD. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josh at tcbug.org Tue Mar 8 18:34:46 2011 From: josh at tcbug.org (Josh Paetzel) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 18:34:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> On Tuesday, March 08, 2011 02:45:07 pm terry houle wrote: > Thanks and I did that last night at Borders Richfield. Half off on all > mags. Finally got Mint to load on my Lenovo. Had been quite a chose and > could not get Ubunto to finalize install. > > I won't even tell you how many hours as too embarassing > > thanks for the tip > > terry Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. ;) But seriously, there is a grain of truth to that. Especially on the desktop. -- Thanks, Josh Paetzel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From kris.browne at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 19:18:00 2011 From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 19:18:00 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: Once you get to a certain level of comfort this adage becomes less useful. Just think, Windows users pay with they wallets and their time. Kristopher Browne http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne On Mar 8, 2011, at 18:34, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Tuesday, March 08, 2011 02:45:07 pm terry houle wrote: >> Thanks and I did that last night at Borders Richfield. Half off on all >> mags. Finally got Mint to load on my Lenovo. Had been quite a chose and >> could not get Ubunto to finalize install. >> >> I won't even tell you how many hours as too embarassing >> >> thanks for the tip >> >> terry > > Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. ;) > > But seriously, there is a grain of truth to that. Especially on the desktop. > > -- > Thanks, > > Josh Paetzel > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From houletr at yahoo.com Tue Mar 8 19:38:03 2011 From: houletr at yahoo.com (terry houle) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 17:38:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <715643.37124.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> But there is also a Fun factor in it --- On Tue, 3/8/11, Kristopher Browne wrote: From: Kristopher Browne Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? To: "TCLUG Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 7:18 PM Once you get to a certain level of comfort this adage becomes less useful. Just think, Windows users pay with they wallets and their time. Kristopher Browne http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne On Mar 8, 2011, at 18:34, Josh Paetzel wrote: > On Tuesday, March 08, 2011 02:45:07 pm terry houle wrote: >> Thanks and I did that last night at Borders Richfield.? Half off on all >> mags.? Finally got Mint to load on my Lenovo.? Had been quite a chose and >> could not get Ubunto to finalize install. >> >> I won't even tell you how many hours as too embarassing >> >> thanks for the tip >> >> terry > > Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. ;) > > But seriously, there is a grain of truth to that.? Especially on the desktop. > > -- > Thanks, > > Josh Paetzel > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 19:52:05 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 19:52:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Josh Paetzel wrote: > Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. ;) > > But seriously, there is a grain of truth to that. Especially on the > desktop. I remember a friend telling me that his friend had a lot of experience and could install Slackware in only about 8 hours, but that was about 17 years ago. I have installed Ubuntu on a bunch of machines in the past couple of years and it usually took about 5 minutes of my time to get it working quite nicely. After that, to get loads of software installed is another five minutes of my time. I've also installed Windows XP a few times in the past several years and the Windows installation took about the same amount of my time as Ubuntu. So I'm thinking of the quote as very true under some conditions, especially the conditions of 1994, but it is much less true under most conditions of today. Mike From samael.anon at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 21:27:20 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 21:27:20 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: windows xp is horrible to install on a large hard drive (unless you quick format). i would take linux over windows in that regard anytime. i worked at a native american chamber of commerce and found that when people started with linux and i tried to put them on a windows machine they would bitch and complain constantly about windows. just goes to show you that once you get comfortable with something it is hard to change. On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Josh Paetzel wrote: > > Linux is free if your time is worth nothing. ;) >> >> But seriously, there is a grain of truth to that. Especially on the >> desktop. >> > > > I remember a friend telling me that his friend had a lot of experience and > could install Slackware in only about 8 hours, but that was about 17 years > ago. I have installed Ubuntu on a bunch of machines in the past couple of > years and it usually took about 5 minutes of my time to get it working quite > nicely. After that, to get loads of software installed is another five > minutes of my time. I've also installed Windows XP a few times in the past > several years and the Windows installation took about the same amount of my > time as Ubuntu. > > So I'm thinking of the quote as very true under some conditions, especially > the conditions of 1994, but it is much less true under most conditions of > today. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 8 21:33:22 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 21:33:22 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Samael wrote: > windows xp is horrible to install on a large hard drive (unless you quick > format). Just because most Linux distributions default to a quick-format doesn't make Linux in general faster. When I get a new drive, or even more so when I'm repurposing a fairly OLD drive, I tell mkfs to actually check for bad blocks. And let me tell you, that takes FOREVER. -Yaron -- From ryanjcole at me.com Tue Mar 8 21:49:03 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:49:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> Message-ID: <1D6A6024-5E29-449C-8074-1B258E260B5F@me.com> Try mkfs on a 7TB RAID. On Mar 8, 2011, at 9:33 PM, Yaron wrote: > On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Samael wrote: > >> windows xp is horrible to install on a large hard drive (unless you quick >> format). > > Just because most Linux distributions default to a quick-format doesn't make Linux in general faster. When I get a new drive, or even more so when I'm repurposing a fairly OLD drive, I tell mkfs to actually check for bad blocks. And let me tell you, that takes FOREVER. > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Tue Mar 8 21:58:57 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 21:58:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <1D6A6024-5E29-449C-8074-1B258E260B5F@me.com> References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> <1D6A6024-5E29-449C-8074-1B258E260B5F@me.com> Message-ID: Been there, done that (; This is how I know it takes forever. On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Try mkfs on a 7TB RAID. > > On Mar 8, 2011, at 9:33 PM, Yaron wrote: > >> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Samael wrote: >> >>> windows xp is horrible to install on a large hard drive (unless you quick >>> format). >> >> Just because most Linux distributions default to a quick-format doesn't make Linux in general faster. When I get a new drive, or even more so when I'm repurposing a fairly OLD drive, I tell mkfs to actually check for bad blocks. And let me tell you, that takes FOREVER. >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 9 07:26:13 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:26:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> <1D6A6024-5E29-449C-8074-1B258E260B5F@me.com> Message-ID: <20110309132613.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 09:58:57PM -0600, Yaron wrote: > Been there, done that (; This is how I know it takes forever. > > On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> Try mkfs on a 7TB RAID. How is that relevant to an actual _installation_ of the operating system? You are not placing any OS files on that drive anyway. With modern filesystems (btrfs and zfs) that use on-demand allocation, the actual size of the block device becomes less relevant. Running badblocks will take forever and a day, no matter what. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 9 07:28:18 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 07:28:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <20110309132613.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> <1D6A6024-5E29-449C-8074-1B258E260B5F@me.com> <20110309132613.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: I never said I was or wasn't. We were just commenting on the length of proper formats - but maybe you missed that entire thread. On Mar 9, 2011, at 7:26 AM, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Tue, Mar 08, 2011 at 09:58:57PM -0600, Yaron wrote: >> Been there, done that (; This is how I know it takes forever. >> >> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>> Try mkfs on a 7TB RAID. > > How is that relevant to an actual _installation_ of the operating > system? You are not placing any OS files on that drive anyway. From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 08:50:59 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 08:50:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: <1D6A6024-5E29-449C-8074-1B258E260B5F@me.com> References: <693481.34291.qm@web114216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201103081834.53148.josh@tcbug.org> <1D6A6024-5E29-449C-8074-1B258E260B5F@me.com> Message-ID: Ryan Coleman cried from the depths of the abyss... > Try mkfs on a 7TB RAID. > Agreed. The Centos 5.5 box I mentioned the other day has an 11TB RAID. Let's just say I started the mkfs when I left work, and when I came in the next morning it was still going...... From admin at lctn.org Wed Mar 9 10:00:11 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 10:00:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] usb-creator-gtk help In-Reply-To: <27301900.1131299686285140.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org> Message-ID: <5120769.1151299686411220.JavaMail.root@mail.lctn.org> I am able to make non-persistent, live usb sticks without any problem, using usb-creator-gtk. However, I get segmentation faults, program suddenly closing, or not finishing the process when I try to create one with persistent settings. There is plenty of space on the usb stick and I am running the program as root. Just curious if there is a simple way to take a live usb stick and manually make it persistent. -- Raymond Norton LCTN Ecclesiastes 7:21-22 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 10:52:15 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 10:52:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? Message-ID: I was doing a fresh install from a Fedora live USB yesterday. total time one minute thirty seconds. It helps to have an SSD drive. from fresh install to having Compiz running and a python CGI server configured with Apache. Less than 10 Minutes. And the download times where slow do to a slow network when installing. Now if I were to write a bash script to automate the install and load all the programs from a PXE boot hmmmm.... I dont think it is a waste of time. How long did it take you to learn windows ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Fri Mar 11 09:00:29 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:00:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] usb-creator-gtk help Message-ID: <4D7A390D.5090404@lctn.org> Could not get usb-creator-gtk to work properly, but found these instructions work to create a persistent live usb stick: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1380886.html From james007wjs at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 11:51:38 2011 From: james007wjs at gmail.com (wes smith) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 11:51:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... Message-ID: >Another good read... > >http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/03/collaborations-demise.html > >On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Chuck Payne wrote: > http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1644208/Has-GNOME-Rejected-Canonical-Help-Shuttleworth-Responds > > > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Chris Fowler > wrote: >> >> On Thu, 2011-03-10 at 13:15 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote: >>> Interesting ongoing developments in Mark Shuttleworth's blog. >>> >>> >>> I don't have a position, but not being a developer, this is all just >>> fascinating to me: >>> >>> >>> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/654 >>> >>> >> >> http://ngadventure.typepad.com/blog/deep-survival-mob-mentality.html More reason to hope off the noobuntu band wagon "Newly formed groups communicated much more with outsiders and also performed much better than older groups, which became more insular and dysfunctional over time." From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 12:26:16 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:26:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Usb creator Message-ID: Here is what I do with usb creator 1. download a distro make sure its a "live" Distro """ http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora """ 2. format the flash drive as fat 32 3 run usb creator and point it to your downloaded distro iso file 4 reboot 5 set bios to boot from usb 6 boot from usb. If your running windows you can do the same with Unetbootin. http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ If your using unetbootin you still have to format the drive as fat 32 then follow the same steps. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Mar 11 12:29:56 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:29:56 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Tethering Canon EOS cameras In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90695EB4-AE12-4321-847C-AB5D9DBC9707@me.com> Has anyone had any luck tethering a Canon EOS (digital SLR) camera to *any* flavor of Linux or Unix? I'm having a devil of a time getting my camera to register on my installation (not linux but... it really shouldn't matter) but it does instantly both in OS X and Windows with the same USB cable. The USB port is good - I've tried the same cable with a 2.5" USB HDD and it powered up and mounted up without issue. Any help is appreciated. -- Ryan From admin at lctn.org Fri Mar 11 12:30:15 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:30:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Usb creator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D7A6A37.5020600@lctn.org> Yep, that is how it is supposed to work, but usb-creator-gtk would always bomb on me, on two different Linux boxes. Unetbootin did the trick. On 03/11/2011 12:26 PM, r j wrote: > Here is what I do with usb creator > 1. download a distro make sure its a "live" Distro """ > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora """ > 2. format the flash drive as fat 32 > 3 run usb creator and point it to your downloaded distro iso file > 4 reboot > 5 set bios to boot from usb > 6 boot from usb. > > If your running windows you can do the same with Unetbootin. > http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ > If your using unetbootin you still have to format the drive as fat 32 > then follow the same steps. > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by *MailScanner* , and is > believed to be clean. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Mar 11 12:31:43 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:31:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] [ignore] Re: Tethering Canon EOS cameras In-Reply-To: <90695EB4-AE12-4321-847C-AB5D9DBC9707@me.com> References: <90695EB4-AE12-4321-847C-AB5D9DBC9707@me.com> Message-ID: Nevermind, it's registering on my file server now, just not on my microappliance (fs: FreeBSD 8.2, microappliance is running nanoBSD). On Mar 11, 2011, at 12:29 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Has anyone had any luck tethering a Canon EOS (digital SLR) camera to *any* flavor of Linux or Unix? I'm having a devil of a time getting my camera to register on my installation (not linux but... it really shouldn't matter) but it does instantly both in OS X and Windows with the same USB cable. > > The USB port is good - I've tried the same cable with a 2.5" USB HDD and it powered up and mounted up without issue. > > Any help is appreciated. > > -- > Ryan > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 14:02:12 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 14:02:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: wes smith cried from the depths of the abyss... > More reason to hope off the noobuntu band wagon Thank the Maker I missed that band wagon. noobuntu.... From ubusum at ymail.com Fri Mar 11 15:28:22 2011 From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:28:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [tclug-list] TestDisk issues: Follow up from a hard drive recovery problem I posted a month ago In-Reply-To: <4D7A6A37.5020600@lctn.org> Message-ID: <427591.8159.qm@web59403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> This follows up a hard drive recovery problem I posted a month or so ago and finally started to work on. There is moderately high value data on the partition table damaged Seagate because my Dad prepared his taxes over Christmas. So I'd like to get this one right. Here's what I found and some questions for the Linux-savvy. Screenshots over at Flickr TestDisk Scans promising DD backup I/O issues and Predicting backup time from test runs Using DD OF=image file, versus cloning Bad sector count error mssg in TestDisk confusing Ubuntu Live and community library load failure I couldn't find the TestDisk logfile, but here are screenshots taken with my camera where you can quickly grasp the details: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60501213 at N02/ With a deeper TestDisk scan, the drive partitions come out? just as I set them during the failed Partition Magic session that caused the drive to crash, and the data seem to be intact as well. It seems the only thing to do is to continue with the deeper scan and save the partitions as they are given in the scan results. (This over-writes the partition table... Correct?) But I wanted to first back up the drive before changing anything and tried a couple flash drives as tests. A test run of an 8GB Flash card (probably class 4 at 4 mb/sec) took 2 hours to complete a DD image copy. I copied to a file because I am concerned about differing drive geometries going from a Seagate 3.5" to a portable Western Digital (inspired by comments on the web). A test run using? a 1GB Flash Drive (with a 0.5GB deleted partition) took only 30 seconds! But the test recovery of this took almost six minutes??? All 3 tests were done with a USB portable WD drive as the target, running at 5400 rpm. Do you know where the i/o bottleneck is in this 1.1 mb/sec transfer? At this rate the 200GB Seagate would take 50 hours to back up, and who knows how long to restore, should that be necessary. Hopefully the bottleneck is in the flash medium. Does anyone know if the following sector count issue caused the drive crash (from Partition Magic)? (Why would Partition Magic mess with drive geometry values?) TestDisk Errors: "Bad sector count. Warning: incorrect number of heads/cylinders 240 (FAT) != 255 (HD) Warning: incorrect number of heads/cylinders 240 (NTFS) != 255 (HD)" etc. for each partition. I'm not conversant in the != convention, (nothing came up in Google) and not sure if it's getting a false alarm or if it's re-setting the value to 255. Because later: "Warning: The current number of heads per cylinder is 255 but the correct value may be 240. You can use the Geometry menu to change this value...." As the drive is listed at Seagate as having 256 heads (presumably counting the 0-head as 1), and especially since the deep scan came out perfectly (I think) there doesn't seem to be anything to do about the geometry values. (Is this 255/256 discrepancy nothing to worry about?) Seagate spec sheet: http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbec3b0c2aeef010VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD&locale=en-US&reqPage=Legacy Finally, I tried to load TestDisk in? the Synaptic Package Manager running Ubuntu Live, but it couldn't find any of the programs in the community library. Is this common? I used a Linux rescue ISO mashup that included TestDrive instead, which added a lot of load time switching between live CDs to run DD in Ubuntu and TestDisk from a systemrescue ISO. Thanks in advance for sharing your experience and expertise. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Mar 11 15:43:36 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:43:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Older PC In-Reply-To: <427591.8159.qm@web59403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <427591.8159.qm@web59403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <52E380A1-B193-443B-BD43-F3E332DE7897@me.com> Looking for an older PC, preferably free or for limited price; something along the lines of an old desktop small unit, like the Dell Dimensions of yore - I do not need anything blazing fast. I just want a unit I can put in a location to run a digital photo camera on a schedule and download the photos it takes. Any thoughts? Please let me know what you might have and where you are located. I would prefer to not drive too far (I live in NE Minneapolis and, sadly, have a very busy weekend ahead of me). -- Ryan From cwgriesel at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 15:54:52 2011 From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:54:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Older PC In-Reply-To: <52E380A1-B193-443B-BD43-F3E332DE7897@me.com> References: <427591.8159.qm@web59403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <52E380A1-B193-443B-BD43-F3E332DE7897@me.com> Message-ID: Ryan, I work at Northeast Middle School, 29th and Hayes Northeast. Our students have an after-school computer club, and we have some extra PCs we could part with. I'm normally here Monday through Friday, from 8:30 to 3 PM most days. As late as 5 PM some days. Are you able to stop by during those times? Curtis Griesel On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Looking for an older PC, preferably free or for limited price; > > something along the lines of an old desktop small unit, like the Dell Dimensions of yore - I do not need anything blazing fast. I just want a unit I can put in a location to run a digital photo camera on a schedule and download the photos it takes. > > Any thoughts? Please let me know what you might have and where you are located. I would prefer to not drive too far (I live in NE Minneapolis and, sadly, have a very busy weekend ahead of me). > > -- > Ryan > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 15:57:30 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:57:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, wes smith wrote: >> Another good read... >> >> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/03/collaborations-demise.html >> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Chuck Payne wrote: >> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1644208/Has-GNOME-Rejected-Canonical-Help-Shuttleworth-Responds >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Chris Fowler >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, 2011-03-10 at 13:15 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote: >>>> Interesting ongoing developments in Mark Shuttleworth's blog. >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't have a position, but not being a developer, this is all just >>>> fascinating to me: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/654 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> http://ngadventure.typepad.com/blog/deep-survival-mob-mentality.html > > More reason to hope off the noobuntu band wagon > "Newly formed groups communicated much more with outsiders and also > performed much better than older groups, which became more insular and > dysfunctional over time." What is "the noobuntu band wagon?" There are four articles linked above and I'm not sure if you are recommending all of them equally. I want to learn more, but I'm not sure how much time I will have to spend reading to figure out what you are trying to tell us. Can you give us a summary, or explain your position (which I think is an anti-Ubuntu position). Mike From ryanjcole at me.com Fri Mar 11 15:57:06 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 15:57:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Older PC In-Reply-To: References: <427591.8159.qm@web59403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <52E380A1-B193-443B-BD43-F3E332DE7897@me.com> Message-ID: <55EF9164-7844-4310-B122-E2782EBA118F@me.com> Possibly. I have the query out on a few lists so if I don't have anything by Sunday I'll send you an email offlist to check back. I should be able to come by during my lunch hour on Monday. On Mar 11, 2011, at 3:54 PM, Curtis Griesel wrote: > Ryan, > > I work at Northeast Middle School, 29th and Hayes Northeast. Our > students have an after-school computer club, and we have some extra > PCs we could part with. I'm normally here Monday through Friday, from > 8:30 to 3 PM most days. As late as 5 PM some days. > > Are you able to stop by during those times? > > Curtis Griesel > > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> Looking for an older PC, preferably free or for limited price; >> >> something along the lines of an old desktop small unit, like the Dell Dimensions of yore - I do not need anything blazing fast. I just want a unit I can put in a location to run a digital photo camera on a schedule and download the photos it takes. >> >> Any thoughts? Please let me know what you might have and where you are located. I would prefer to not drive too far (I live in NE Minneapolis and, sadly, have a very busy weekend ahead of me). >> >> -- >> Ryan >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From random at argle.org Fri Mar 11 18:32:07 2011 From: random at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:32:07 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> On 11-03-11 03:57 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > > What is "the noobuntu band wagon?" There are four articles linked > above and I'm not sure if you are recommending all of them equally. I > want to learn more, but I'm not sure how much time I will have to > spend reading to figure out what you are trying to tell us. Can you > give us a summary, or explain your position (which I think is an > anti-Ubuntu position). > It appears to be, but anyone who thinks that Canonical is worse than Apple doesn't really have any grasp of Apple's history. The only thing keeping Apple from being a worse Evil Empire than MS or IBM ever have been is market share. -- Dan From nesius at gmail.com Sat Mar 12 15:13:49 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 15:13:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Daniel Taylor wrote: > On 11-03-11 03:57 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> >> >> What is "the noobuntu band wagon?" There are four articles linked above >> and I'm not sure if you are recommending all of them equally. I want to >> learn more, but I'm not sure how much time I will have to spend reading to >> figure out what you are trying to tell us. Can you give us a summary, or >> explain your position (which I think is an anti-Ubuntu position). >> >> It appears to be, but anyone who thinks that Canonical is worse than > Apple doesn't really have any grasp of Apple's history. > > The only thing keeping Apple from being a worse Evil Empire than MS or IBM > ever have been is market share I think Canonical gets a bit of a bad rap. They are pushing a debian-based distro with a six-month release cycle - which is exactly what a lot of people wanted. They also have done a lot of work on integration. I don't know the whole story, but there has been friction between the Gnome community and Canonical for awhile - as from reading the posts above it seems Gnome leadership has been somewhat dickish about some of the issues at play. I'm interested in objective criticisms of Ubuntu. Not so much in people bagging on it to look 1337. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 9 13:42:03 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 13:42:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Buy CD/DVD locally? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C6293EB-C052-442C-AD7D-687C59F9A551@me.com> Who is "you"? The first thing *I* learned about windows is that you look through them to see the outside. On Mar 9, 2011, at 10:52 AM, r j wrote: > I was doing a fresh install from a Fedora live USB yesterday. > total time one minute thirty seconds. It helps to have an SSD drive. > from fresh install to having Compiz running and a python CGI server configured with Apache. Less than 10 Minutes. And the download times where slow do to a slow network when installing. Now if I were to write a bash script to automate the install and load all the programs from a PXE boot hmmmm.... I dont think it is a waste of time. > > How long did it take you to learn windows ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug1 at greatlakedata.com Sat Mar 12 07:18:38 2011 From: tclug1 at greatlakedata.com (gregwm) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 07:18:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> Message-ID: <4D7B72AE.3030001@greatlakedata.com> > It appears to be, but anyone who thinks that Canonical is worse than > Apple doesn't really have any grasp of Apple's history. > > The only thing keeping Apple from being a worse Evil Empire than MS or > IBM ever have been is market share. please share a link to a relevant reading reference From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 00:59:39 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 00:59:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > I think Canonical gets a bit of a bad rap. They are pushing a > debian-based distro with a six-month release cycle - which is exactly > what a lot of people wanted. They also have done a lot of work on > integration. I don't know the whole story, but there has been friction > between the Gnome community and Canonical for awhile - as from reading > the posts above it seems Gnome leadership has been somewhat dickish > about some of the issues at play. > > I'm interested in objective criticisms of Ubuntu. Not so much in people > bagging on it to look 1337. When I see people calling it "noob"untu, I think they are trying to tell me they are more experienced users who don't need an easy-to-use distro. I've been using Unix and Linux systems for more than 20 years and I greatly prefer something easy that requires almost nothing from me as a user. If it's easy to install and just works, that's great. I would prefer to have no sysadmin skills at all and have a system with good, secure default settings that never fails. Having readily available, up-to-date packages is important. For me Ubuntu is working fine. If there is something better, I'd like to know, but I wouldn't want it if it's going to take a lot of time to figure it out. Mike From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 13 01:15:47 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 01:15:47 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > When I see people calling it "noob"untu, I think they are trying to tell me > they are more experienced users who don't need an easy-to-use distro. I've > been using Unix and Linux systems for more than 20 years and I greatly prefer > something easy that requires almost nothing from me as a user. I've got a similar point of view. I've been using UNIX since well before Linux. When I started using Linux there /weren't/ distributions. We /had/ to do it all ourselves. You think Arch Linux is DIY, think again (; And hey - we loved it. If we didn't love it we'd not have done it, right? Nowadays I use Ubuntu. Why? Because I want to be able to just apt-get install firefox and GO. Because I want to apt-get install whatever I happen to need and go. Because, you know what? I don't /want/ to build my own kernels on my own desktop anymore. I want stuff running. Ubuntu is nice and straightforward to install, has relatively uptodate packages, and yeah, it /works/. However, if I /need/ to hack the thing to do what /I/ want it to do, Ubuntu is NOT going to stop me. As I've mentioned many many times, I can't STAND Gnome (and/or KDE for that matter). Ubuntu defaults to that. I don't. I default to Window Maker, and Ubuntu has no problem letting me do that. I also have three monitors connected to two video cards. Nowadays running "X" with no parameters at all /does/ actually let me use all of them but not the way I want, so I have my insanely customised x.org file (which used to be an XF86Config file!) and you know what? Ubuntu has no problem with that. People can call it 'noob'untu if they want, but it takes more than a well-managed distribution to keep power-users down. I used to know some people who were FreeBSD snobs. They considered Linux a 'weaker' UNIX-vaiant because we had packages. We had RPM and apt and yum and yast and whatever, but FreeBSD has 'make world'. You know what? I'm an experienced enough computer user to tell you that having packages built specifically for your distribution is FAR from a weakness, or a crutch. It's invaluable. Having a system that fits together as well as Ubuntu does just saves an INSANE amount of time, and effort, and work. Yes, I can spend the time building my own distribution from scratch, or starting with Arch Linux and going from there, and then my system will be PERFECT. Honestly, it takes less time to just tear out the pieces I don't want in Ubuntu and keeping the 95% that's great. -Yaron -- From ryanjcole at me.com Sun Mar 13 01:48:59 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 01:48:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> Message-ID: <62A6DA1A-763F-4857-9A4A-2BDEFBD6A985@me.com> On Mar 13, 2011, at 1:15 AM, Yaron wrote: > On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> When I see people calling it "noob"untu, I think they are trying to tell me they are more experienced users who don't need an easy-to-use distro. I've been using Unix and Linux systems for more than 20 years and I greatly prefer something easy that requires almost nothing from me as a user. > > I've got a similar point of view. I've been using UNIX since well before Linux. When I started using Linux there /weren't/ distributions. We /had/ to do it all ourselves. You think Arch Linux is DIY, think again (; > > And hey - we loved it. If we didn't love it we'd not have done it, right? I used RHL until I was hacked in 2002. Switched to FreeBSD and haven't looked back [snip] > I used to know some people who were FreeBSD snobs. They considered Linux a 'weaker' UNIX-vaiant because we had packages. We had RPM and apt and yum and yast and whatever, but FreeBSD has 'make world'. You know what? I'm an experienced enough computer user to tell you that having packages built specifically for your distribution is FAR from a weakness, or a crutch. It's invaluable. Having a system that fits together as well as Ubuntu does just saves an INSANE amount of time, and effort, and work. Hey now! I personally don't think Linux is weaker but where RHL lacked in 2002 FreeBSD did it right. Dependencies? They downloaded automatically - no more searching for RPMs all over the net. It made my life easier by making my preparation/installation/deployment way easier. Even my firewall appliance runs nanoBSD (pfSense). I love it. Especially when I could make packages of gphoto2 on my webapp server at work and FTP them onto the nano box and they worked (when I pulled in missing libs). But to each their own. I don't bash people for their choice of *nix variety but others seem to have the need to trash my choice. Rather than wasting the disk space, transmission time and the readers time just think about it to yourselves, please. Same goes with the other flame-worthy discussions here. -- Ryan From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 13 03:07:43 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 03:07:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: <62A6DA1A-763F-4857-9A4A-2BDEFBD6A985@me.com> References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> <62A6DA1A-763F-4857-9A4A-2BDEFBD6A985@me.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> I used to know some people who were FreeBSD snobs. ... > Hey now! Hey I didn't say YOU were one of them (: These were people who INSISTED FreeBSD was superior no matter WHAT. Even when you SHOWED them. Like one of them claimed FreeBSD was 'just as fast as a desktop OS' as Linux - and we are talking back in 2000 here. Did a side-by-side, Linux actually had 3D acceleration by then, FreeBSD didn't, guy STILL insisted FreeBSD was working better. So not super rational people (: I totally agree with you about RPM though... to this day I occasionally run into "Package X requires Package Y" and when you try to install Package Y it says it requires Package X... And /that/ one is the ENTERPRISE Linux distribution! -Yaron -- From justin.kremer at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 11:56:47 2011 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:56:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> <62A6DA1A-763F-4857-9A4A-2BDEFBD6A985@me.com> Message-ID: <39512F58-ED41-4A41-A7CB-8BD76A3D077B@gmail.com> On Mar 13, 2011, at 3:07 AM, Yaron wrote: > I totally agree with you about RPM though... to this day I occasionally run into "Package X requires Package Y" and when you try to install Package Y it says it requires Package X... And /that/ one is the ENTERPRISE Linux distribution! FYI, "the ENTERPRISE Linux distribution" does have yum now, which makes RPM much more usable in those situations. It still isn't my first choice, but now I don't dislike it. It has been quite a while since I have had to deal with that sort of dependency hell. - Justin From nesius at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 13:34:55 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 13:34:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 12:59 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 12 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > > I think Canonical gets a bit of a bad rap. They are pushing a >> debian-based distro with a six-month release cycle - which is exactly what a >> lot of people wanted. They also have done a lot of work on integration. I >> don't know the whole story, but there has been friction between the Gnome >> community and Canonical for awhile - as from reading the posts above it >> seems Gnome leadership has been somewhat dickish about some of the issues at >> play. >> >> I'm interested in objective criticisms of Ubuntu. Not so much in people >> bagging on it to look 1337. >> > > > When I see people calling it "noob"untu, I think they are trying to tell me > they are more experienced users who don't need an easy-to-use distro. I've > been using Unix and Linux systems for more than 20 years and I greatly > prefer something easy that requires almost nothing from me as a user. If > it's easy to install and just works, that's great. I would prefer to have > no sysadmin skills at all and have a system with good, secure default > settings that never fails. Having readily available, up-to-date packages is > important. For me Ubuntu is working fine. If there is something better, > I'd like to know, but I wouldn't want it if it's going to take a lot of time > to figure it out. > You really hit the nail on the head, Mike. Well, the head of a nail I care about, anyway. As someone who has supported distributions of Open Source tools, I've had my fill of compiling/configuring packages. If I can get something reasonably up-to-date and be up and running in minutes instead of half a day, I'm all for it. My experience on Ubuntu to date has been very positive in that regard. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 15:06:59 2011 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 15:06:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> Message-ID: As someone who uses CentOS & Red Hat at work and Ubuntu and Debian everywhere else, I'd have to say that yum and its distros is still far, far behind APT and its distros. Part of that is the design of the tools themselves, part of it is their default configuration (yum insists of re-downloading the package cache for EVERY SINGLE thing you do - really?!?), and a lot of it is the quality control of packaging and repositories by the distribution maintainers. For instance, Debian and Ubuntu have FAR more packages in their repositories, and I only very rarely have to use a PPA or compile something myself. With CentOS and Red Hat on the other hand, I can't even get a useful LAMP system up without adding at least one third-party repository, and the software we ship at work requires two or three. Furthermore, the Debian family does a much better job of segmenting packages into smaller pieces, meaning there are more packages, but you only have to install what you really need. I frequently find in RHEL-land that to compile something my build dependencies involve installing some massive package and a whole bunch of totally unrelated stuff, just because some library wasn't properly split off from an overall application framework or something. Now, yum is certainly an enormous improvement over manually fishing around for individual RPM files, and I applaud the developers for coming up with it, but the combination of APT's design and the far superior strict maintainer ethos demanded by Debian (and thus passed on to Ubuntu) will be keeping me solidly in the Debian/Ubuntu family for everything I have a choice in for the foreseeable future. - Tony Yarusso From kris.browne at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 16:41:05 2011 From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:41:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F0C558F-A451-4B4D-8995-6623C0D5AC43@gmail.com> After reading the articles, it seems that the summary would be that Gnome is having serious Not-Invented-Here issues (except unfathomably MSs .net ideas) while Canonical and KDE folks are trying to work with them to standardize around freedesktop.org and other API unifying efforts, including limiting features to meet a lowest common denominator with Gnome. If anything Gnome, not Canonical, comes off worse from the various exchanges. Kristopher Browne http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne On Mar 11, 2011, at 15:57, Mike Miller wrote: > On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, wes smith wrote: > >>> Another good read... >>> >>> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/03/collaborations-demise.html >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Chuck Payne wrote: >>> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1644208/Has-GNOME-Rejected-Canonical-Help-Shuttleworth-Responds >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Chris Fowler >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, 2011-03-10 at 13:15 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote: >>>>> Interesting ongoing developments in Mark Shuttleworth's blog. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I don't have a position, but not being a developer, this is all just >>>>> fascinating to me: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/654 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> http://ngadventure.typepad.com/blog/deep-survival-mob-mentality.html >> >> More reason to hope off the noobuntu band wagon >> "Newly formed groups communicated much more with outsiders and also >> performed much better than older groups, which became more insular and >> dysfunctional over time." > > > What is "the noobuntu band wagon?" There are four articles linked above and I'm not sure if you are recommending all of them equally. I want to learn more, but I'm not sure how much time I will have to spend reading to figure out what you are trying to tell us. Can you give us a summary, or explain your position (which I think is an anti-Ubuntu position). > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug at freakzilla.com Sun Mar 13 19:24:13 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 19:24:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Choice Message-ID: With all this [noob]untu and RPM/APT/whatever talk, I thought it might be nice to remember one of the things we like the most about UNIX in general, and one of the things Linux is better at that just about any UNIX-variant. Choice (see Subject:). One of my earliest memories of UNIX was when a co-worker showed me the man page for the seemingly unobtrusive 'ls' command. Coming from DOS, I was told that 'ls' is the UNIX equivalent of 'dir', but while 'dir' has three or four commandline options, 'ls' had over 20. That might seem more like robustness than choice, but it means you can display the files in a directory many, many, many more ways. Fun thing is 'ls' has evolved even MORE since then. There are currently too many Linux distributions to count. Seriously, I just tried to get a rough estimate and I'm just not willing to count that high. I can't even say if it's hundreds or THOUSANDS. Sure, there are only about 10 'major' distributions, but that's still fairly high. And again, it affords us a crazy amount of choice. One can install Linux on anything from a cellphone or tablet to a super computer. Each of those will work in a wildly different way, but it's very likely that all of them can, in some way, run 'ls' (; One could install and use Linux right now without ever using the commandline. Counterwise, one can install and use Linux right now without ever seeing a GUI. Most of us Power Users/Geeks use both! We can still our email with [al]pine, or Evolution, or kmail. We can browse the web with Firefox, chrome or hell, Lynx! We can open a terminal (and use various different shells) to manage our files, or we can run one of a dozen GUI-based file managers. And we can use all of these at the same time, if we want to. Linux is no longer just a strange, often-mispronounced operating system that hobbyists play with over the weekend. for years, the holy grail of Linux was "Linux on the Desktop" that "noobs" could use. We have that now! And we didn't have to give up the enthusiast portion! Take that, Apple! Take that, DOS! Hell, take that the home computer market in general! Linux is big. It's a big, wide, vast sea of choices. There's room enough in it for every possible usage. and, more importantly, there's a PLACE in it for every way people use Linux now, and every way people will use Linux in the future (*cough*cyborgs*cough*). In closing, I think we should all take a note from the ubiquitous posters hanging up at work, and Celebrate Diversity. -Yaron -- /we now return you to your regularly scheduled program From james007wjs at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 22:46:20 2011 From: james007wjs at gmail.com (wes smith) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 03:46:20 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... Message-ID: > On Sat, 12 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > >> I think Canonical gets a bit of a bad rap. ?They are pushing a >> debian-based distro with a six-month release cycle - which is exactly >> what a lot of people wanted. ?They also have done a lot of work on >> integration. ?I don't know the whole story, but there has been friction >> between the Gnome community and Canonical for awhile - as from reading >> the posts above it seems Gnome leadership has been somewhat dickish >> about some of the issues at play. >> >> I'm interested in objective criticisms of Ubuntu. ?Not so much in people >> bagging on it to look 1337. > > > When I see people calling it "noob"untu, I think they are trying to tell > me they are more experienced users who don't need an easy-to-use distro. > I've been using Unix and Linux systems for more than 20 years and I > greatly prefer something easy that requires almost nothing from me as a > user. ?If it's easy to install and just works, that's great. ?I would > prefer to have no sysadmin skills at all and have a system with good, > secure default settings that never fails. ?Having readily available, > up-to-date packages is important. ?For me Ubuntu is working fine. ?If > there is something better, I'd like to know, but I wouldn't want it if > it's going to take a lot of time to figure it out. > > Mike How can you learn anything if everything just works. Where's the fun in that. Canonical does it for the sake to be different. It doesn't work for us lets switch to something in house, hence unity. Making drastic changes hurts the user. People are going to have to relearn how to navigate through the OS. Adobe flash has done this too, vdpau doesn't work for us lets make our own api. I've never like the debian way of pkg management. openssl-devel makes a lot more sense the libssl-dev When I choose an OS I prefer to pick the ones that come with a forced lifestyle. I prefer to spend extra money to have comfort that my user experience will be above average and that my laptop doubles as a cake cutter. I can't make decision for myself so I let the OS / developers do it for me. I then like to hang out in coffee shops and show everyone my new toy. From admin at lctn.org Mon Mar 14 09:07:16 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:07:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] video capture Message-ID: <4D7E2114.1080400@lctn.org> Looking through the wiki on supported usb video/audio capture devices. Anyone using one they would highly recommend? Need video and audio. Would be nice if it was USB 1 or 2. From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 09:19:35 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:19:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] video capture In-Reply-To: <4D7E2114.1080400@lctn.org> References: <4D7E2114.1080400@lctn.org> Message-ID: Raymond Norton cried from the depths of the abyss... > Looking through the wiki on supported usb video/audio capture devices. > Anyone using one they would highly recommend? Need video and audio. Would be > nice if it was USB 1 or 2. > I have had very good luck using video capture devices made by Hauppauge. http://www.hauppauge.com/ Once upon a time I used an ATI video capture card and although it worked, it did not work well. That was many years ago, and perhaps things have changed. I would recommend checking out Hauppauge. There is very good Linux support for there stuff. Good Luck. Mr B-o-B From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 10:35:49 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:35:49 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Choice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Mar 2011, Yaron wrote: > Linux is big. It's a big, wide, vast sea of choices. There's room enough > in it for every possible usage. and, more importantly, there's a PLACE > in it for every way people use Linux now, and every way people will use > Linux in the future (*cough*cyborgs*cough*). Check this out: http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html The cyborgs of the future might not mind a large number of options, but for the rest of us it creates some problems (along with the obvious benefits). Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 10:51:18 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 10:51:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Mar 2011, wes smith wrote: >> On Sat, 12 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: >> >>> I think Canonical gets a bit of a bad rap. ?They are pushing a >>> debian-based distro with a six-month release cycle - which is exactly >>> what a lot of people wanted. ?They also have done a lot of work on >>> integration. ?I don't know the whole story, but there has been friction >>> between the Gnome community and Canonical for awhile - as from reading >>> the posts above it seems Gnome leadership has been somewhat dickish >>> about some of the issues at play. >>> >>> I'm interested in objective criticisms of Ubuntu. ?Not so much in people >>> bagging on it to look 1337. >> >> >> When I see people calling it "noob"untu, I think they are trying to >> tell me they are more experienced users who don't need an easy-to-use >> distro. I've been using Unix and Linux systems for more than 20 years >> and I greatly prefer something easy that requires almost nothing from >> me as a user. ?If it's easy to install and just works, that's great. ?I >> would prefer to have no sysadmin skills at all and have a system with >> good, secure default settings that never fails. ?Having readily >> available, up-to-date packages is important. ?For me Ubuntu is working >> fine. ?If there is something better, I'd like to know, but I wouldn't >> want it if it's going to take a lot of time to figure it out. >> > > How can you learn anything if everything just works. Where's the fun > in that. If you want to learn how to use R, Octave, Python, Ruby, Perl or C, then with a quick Ubuntu install, a couple of minutes on synaptic, and you will have everything working. You can start the fun of learning those worthwhile programming systems right away. Of course, if your goal is to learn how to install a really badly maintained distro, then you'll want something that doesn't just work. That's the upside of having choices. The thing I don't understand is why you'd want to make fun of someone for using Ubuntu instead of something that doesn't just work. I'm not sure that you understand that by deciding to spend your time on some tricky Linux distro, you have less time to study things like programming, or chemistry or statistics or history or law or medicine or a million other things. Ask yourself this: How many CEOs or world leaders can compile a Linux kernel? Is it because they are stupid that they can't do it? > Canonical does it for the sake to be different. Are you a native English speaker? I don't get your point. > It doesn't work for us lets switch to something in house, hence unity. > Making drastic changes hurts the user. People are going to have to > relearn how to navigate through the OS. Adobe flash has done this too, > vdpau doesn't work for us lets make our own api. I've never like the > debian way of pkg management. openssl-devel makes a lot more sense the > libssl-dev I still don't understand you. > When I choose an OS I prefer to pick the ones that come with a forced > lifestyle. I prefer to spend extra money to have comfort that my user > experience will be above average and that my laptop doubles as a cake > cutter. I can't make decision for myself so I let the OS / developers > do it for me. I then like to hang out in coffee shops and show everyone > my new toy. OK, but it's still hard to really get what you are trying to tell me. You might find that if you try to explain your position forthrightly that you can see that there are some major flaws in your argument. Mike From 13.finn at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 11:28:46 2011 From: 13.finn at gmail.com (Patrick Robins) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:28:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D7E423E.8060208@gmail.com> On 03/14/2011 10:51 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 14 Mar 2011, wes smith wrote: > >>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: >>> >>>> I think Canonical gets a bit of a bad rap. They are pushing a >>>> debian-based distro with a six-month release cycle - which is exactly >>>> what a lot of people wanted. They also have done a lot of work on >>>> integration. I don't know the whole story, but there has been friction >>>> between the Gnome community and Canonical for awhile - as from reading >>>> the posts above it seems Gnome leadership has been somewhat dickish >>>> about some of the issues at play. >>>> >>>> I'm interested in objective criticisms of Ubuntu. Not so much in >>>> people >>>> bagging on it to look 1337. >>> >>> >>> When I see people calling it "noob"untu, I think they are trying to >>> tell me they are more experienced users who don't need an easy-to-use >>> distro. I've been using Unix and Linux systems for more than 20 years >>> and I greatly prefer something easy that requires almost nothing from >>> me as a user. If it's easy to install and just works, that's great. >>> I would prefer to have no sysadmin skills at all and have a system >>> with good, secure default settings that never fails. Having readily >>> available, up-to-date packages is important. For me Ubuntu is >>> working fine. If there is something better, I'd like to know, but I >>> wouldn't want it if it's going to take a lot of time to figure it out. >>> >> >> How can you learn anything if everything just works. Where's the fun >> in that. > > If you want to learn how to use R, Octave, Python, Ruby, Perl or C, then > with a quick Ubuntu install, a couple of minutes on synaptic, and you > will have everything working. You can start the fun of learning those > worthwhile programming systems right away. Of course, if your goal is > to learn how to install a really badly maintained distro, then you'll > want something that doesn't just work. That's the upside of having > choices. The thing I don't understand is why you'd want to make fun of > someone for using Ubuntu instead of something that doesn't just work. > > I'm not sure that you understand that by deciding to spend your time on > some tricky Linux distro, you have less time to study things like > programming, or chemistry or statistics or history or law or medicine or > a million other things. Ask yourself this: How many CEOs or world > leaders can compile a Linux kernel? Is it because they are stupid that > they can't do it? > These are the exact reasons that I tend to use Debian/Ubuntu based distros. Linux is no longer a hobby for me, it is my production and day to day system( has been since about 1998/99 ). Although I am capable and still do play with other distros when I have time. I have school, work and other important projects that are required and I want to spend any excess time I have with my family not hacking my OS. If you need to get work done, I recommend using an established Debian based distro ( yes that includes the Ubuntu derivatives ). If you want to really learn the details of Linux use Slackware, Gentoo, or LFS if you are REALLY serious about the level of knowledge you want to gain. To end this declamation; Linux is about choice and freedom. Freedom to choose both what and how you use it. We all have opinions and requirements we follow in our own choices. Simply put there is no "One True Way". -- Patrick "Finn" Robins Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr. Seuss From mark.katerberg at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 11:36:28 2011 From: mark.katerberg at gmail.com (mark.katerberg at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:36:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: <4D7E423E.8060208@gmail.com> References: <4D7E423E.8060208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <93cb6be3-12a3-4b86-8619-73bf86d21ec4@email.android.com> > To end this declamation; Linux is about choice and freedom. Freedom to >choose both what and how you use it. We all have opinions and >requirements we follow in our own choices. Simply put there is no "One >True Way". +1 -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From random at argle.org Mon Mar 14 13:55:21 2011 From: random at argle.org (Daniel Taylor) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:55:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: <4D7B72AE.3030001@greatlakedata.com> References: <4D7ABF07.7080908@argle.org> <4D7B72AE.3030001@greatlakedata.com> Message-ID: <4D7E6499.7070707@argle.org> One reference? I don't have one. The best place to look would be in their management of services such as the App Store and iTunes, but it shows anywhere that freedom and "user experience" collide. http://arstechnica.com/apple/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/10/mac-app-store-boon-or-bust-for-developers.ars There's both good and bad coming out of Cupertino, I try to keep my distance so that I can judge the risks accurately being as how we are largely an Apple shop on the desktop at work. On 03/12/2011 07:18 AM, gregwm wrote: >> It appears to be, but anyone who thinks that Canonical is worse than >> Apple doesn't really have any grasp of Apple's history. >> >> The only thing keeping Apple from being a worse Evil Empire than MS or >> IBM ever have been is market share. > > please share a link to a relevant reading reference > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From kenlynes at usa.net Tue Mar 15 00:00:06 2011 From: kenlynes at usa.net (Kenneth Lynes) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:00:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good.. Message-ID: <772Pcoe8g2976S02.1300165206@web02.cms.usa.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 07:23:28 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:23:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Miller cried from the depths of the abyss... > That's the upside of having choices. The thing I don't > understand is why you'd want to make fun of someone for using Ubuntu instead > of something that doesn't just work. > Cheeseits Rice man. Look at the name for starters. Come on! Get in the game here! > I'm not sure that you understand that by deciding to spend your time on some > tricky Linux distro, you have less time to study things like programming, or > chemistry or statistics or history or law or medicine or a million other > things. Ask yourself this: How many CEOs or world leaders can compile a > Linux kernel? Is it because they are stupid that they can't do it? > Chuckle :) Most world leaders and CEOs think a kernel is an officer in the military. I love you guys! Mr. B-o-B From florin at iucha.net Tue Mar 15 08:08:11 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 08:08:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good.. In-Reply-To: <772Pcoe8g2976S02.1300165206@web02.cms.usa.net> References: <772Pcoe8g2976S02.1300165206@web02.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <20110315130811.GU3082@styx.iucha.org> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:00:06AM -0500, a Linux user wrote: > Hey guys I am pretty new at using Ubuntu or any other distro of linux for > that matter, so my comments might not be so important but here goes. The comments are important, however they are a bit one-sided... Please don't take it personally - I do not intend to pick on you (I changed the e-mail attribution on purpose), but your e-mail is a good example. > I want to use linux in order to get away from an OS that is bloated and ^^^^^^^^ > cumbersome and full of problems which make my daily use of it a constant > repair job. Now by my own admission I am relatively poor and cant afford > to spend more on my software than I did on the desktop or laptop I managed > to buy. I hack a lot of programs just to be able to use windows at all and > that includes the OS. I am bothered by doing that believe it or not and > wanted to get into an OS which I could afford to use legally. I plan to > donate when I can find some extra cash around and I do promise to do that. > > In the meantime I simply want to find something to read my email and ^^^ ^^^^^^ > look at my videos or links from youtube etc. I dont want to have to take ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > 2 years of classes to be able to understand the system enough to make > it work in a minimal way. I am sure I am like most people who wish to > use a computer as a tool and not have to go through the same anguish > as with windows. I do want to learn and I will continue to do that, ^^^^^^^^^^^ > but please see that most of us simply want the OS to work well without ^^^^ ^^^^^^ > constant problems such as we have using windows. Constant bother and > malfunctions without limit along with issues of having to constantly > upgrade the computer. I have better things to do than to spend all day ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > long getting my system to work for another day. A plethora of demands... Now, what do you offer? > That should be the immediate goal of the distribution: to make it work > well without hundreds of issues to solve. Secondary to that is to improve > it so it can take advantage of new hardware, but most of us dont change > our systems every six months anyway. I personally went to linux to find > something that just plain works and is stable and can be depended on to > keep working day after day. That is only a dream on my windows machines. > > The object should be to get as many people as we can to use linux and > then hardware manufacturers will put effort into making their stuff work > on our OS and not just to struggle along on windows. I am grateful for > all the guys who help make the OS better and help solve out issues with > software and hardware. I accept that I have to learn and will keep at it, > but that is not my main issue to leave windows and embrace linux. I like > that it simply works. Keep up the good work and I will do all I can to > help others myself. Some high level of fuzzy advice and a smattering of gratitude. Have you tried that approach with the mechanic? Or a plumber? A farmer? A hairdresser? Look - it is free stuff: free software, free advice. Taking the position that you have more important stuff to do than do write your software or even learning how to use what is out there and that other people have to make it work your way is... insulting. You know? _I_ have more important stuff to do than listen to your demands - _I_ am making software work the way _I_ want to. florin PS: A grandmother and her nephew are walking along a beach when suddenly the skies darken, a strong wind rises and a mighty wave surges over them, snatching up the toddler and carrying him far out to sea. Stricken by grief and horror, the mother falls to her knees and prays. ?O Lord!,? she cries. ?I beg of you! Bring my baby back to me! If you do this for me, I swear on his life that I will never ask you for anything ever again!? Thunder rolls, lightning flashes and another awesome wave rolls in, delivering the boy ? shaken but unhurt ? safely back to the arms of the grandmother. She clasps him in her arms and smothers him with kisses. Then she says, ?Just one more thing, O Lord. When that wave took him away, he was wearing a new little hat?... -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Tue Mar 15 09:34:39 2011 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:34:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> References: <20110307063047.GD14955@fireopal.org> Message-ID: <4D7F78FF.6090309@tomobiki.dyndns.org> On 3/7/2011 12:30 AM, Scott Raun wrote: > On Sun, Mar 06, 2011 at 10:08:17PM -0600, Yaron wrote: >> Yes, YOU can be the proud owner of a LASER PRINTER. Not just ANY Laser >> Printer, but a piece of COMPUTING HISTORY! >> >> Ok not really. It's an HP LaserJet 4si, which means it's a) A friggin >> workhorse, and b) A HUGE MONSTER. >> >> It does work - even has toner in it. Hell I'll even help you carry it out >> of my basement office and into your (hopefully large) car. It can only >> use parallel printer ports, and includes a cable. > Now this last I _know_ is not true. I used to put JetDirect cards in > those behemoths. Then they do network printing just fine. > > But if you don't already have one, yeah, it's either parallel or find > one. > I have a couple of network to parallel printer adapters. Joseph Key From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 20:02:11 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 20:02:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good.. In-Reply-To: <772Pcoe8g2976S02.1300165206@web02.cms.usa.net> References: <772Pcoe8g2976S02.1300165206@web02.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: Kenneth Lynes cried from the depths of the abyss... > I hack a lot of programs The correct word here is Crack. I highly doubt that you are the one actually cracking them though. That's takes fairly decent skills, and the rest of you message indicates these are skill you do not have. > just to be able to use windows at all and that includes the OS. I am bothered by > doing that believe it or not and wanted to get into an OS which I could afford to use legally. I plan to donate when I can find some extra > cash around and I do promise to do that. In case you haven't noticed, there is open source builds for windows too. What ever you are cracking, there is most likely an open source equivalent for M$. It might not be as fancy or zipadedoda, but hey beggars can't be choosers right. My personal favorite is the Cracked anti-virus/security stuff people like to infect their machine with. That's good stuff right there. > but please see that most of us simply want the OS to work well without > constant problems such as we have using windows. Constant > bother and malfunctions without limit along with issues of having to constantly upgrade the computer. Are you on Apple's payroll? > That should be the immediate goal of the distribution: to make it work well without hundreds of issues to solve. Come on man! What are you running over there? Wintendo 95,98, or ME? M$ hasn't been that bad in a long time now. Perhaps your hardware is crap. Another thing that comes to mind is all the pirate software. Each time you click on Cracked.exe, crack.exe, patchthis.exe, or my favorite already precracked software there is a price to pay. It seems you are paying right now. Legitimate windows with legitimate software works well enough. You are doing something wrong. > The object should be to get as many people as we can to use linux and then hardware manufacturers will put effort into making their stuff > work on our OS and not just to struggle along on windows. I am grateful for all the guys who help make the OS better and help solve out > issues with software and hardware. I accept that I have to learn and will keep at it, but that is not my main issue to leave windows and > embrace linux. I like that it simply works. Keep up the good work and I will do all I can to help others myself. > Ken There is no honor among thieves. From nesius at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 22:23:04 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:23:04 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Canonical makes Apple look so good.. In-Reply-To: References: <772Pcoe8g2976S02.1300165206@web02.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > Kenneth Lynes cried from the depths of the abyss... > >> That should be the immediate goal of the distribution: to make it work >> well without hundreds of issues to solve. >> > > Come on man! What are you running over there? Wintendo 95,98, or ME? M$ > hasn't been that bad in a long time now. Perhaps your hardware is crap. > Another thing that comes to mind is all the pirate software. Each time you > click on Cracked.exe, crack.exe, patchthis.exe, or my favorite already > precracked software there is a price to pay. It seems you are paying right > now. Legitimate windows with legitimate software works well enough. You > are doing something wrong. > > Truthfully, the most pain-free and stable way to run Windows is with a valid license - period - the end. And, if you did pay for it, these days you get a pretty good OS. Granted, it's not POSIX compliant, but it actually can host services pretty well these days. I hate to say it, but it's true. I especially like the way it runs .Net. I mean Java. I mean silverlight. Whoops - I meant flash. I meant... *sigh* It really does suck less, for what it's worth. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:04:18 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:04:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty Message-ID: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> from the changelog: Wed Mar 16 06:20:03 UTC 2011 Slackware 13.37 release candidate 2 is ready for testing. Are we almost there? Slackware 13.37 coming to an .iso near you soon. End Communication Mr. B-o-B From chrome at real-time.com Thu Mar 17 07:48:27 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 07:48:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Choice In-Reply-To: ; from mbmiller+l@gmail.com on Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:35:49AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20110317074827.P26757@real-time.com> On 03/14 10:35 , Mike Miller wrote: > Check this out: > > http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html > > The cyborgs of the future might not mind a large number of options, but > for the rest of us it creates some problems (along with the obvious > benefits). It's an interesting talk, like just about everything else at TED. I do have some issues with the things he says tho (many of them with his conclusions): * Humans are Individuals. We need to keep in mind that there are some people who actually do know which of the 175 salad dressings is probably best for them. So just because many people don't know which to choose doesn't mean we should hinder those who do. Those who do understand these things will tend to influence the rest of us. (Possibly they don't understand things as well as they think they do; but see my last point). Don't think of people as aggregates, or in terms of the 'average person' (which is really hard, since it's such a useful construct). * Don't conflate wealth with choice - if we mean to redistribute 'choice' from people who have much to people who have little right now; how do we do it? Redistributing wealth will be a proxy way of doing it; but it's not a very good way because coercive fiat tends to arbitrarily limit choice rather than create it (there's only as much creativity as the bureaucrat has imagination). We may choose to redistribute wealth for moral reasons, but that's a separate problem. * Who decides? - Who gets to choose what choices everyone should have, and how do we prevent the natural tendency for those decision-makers to redistribute the good choices to themselves? * We make imperfect choices all the time, but we rarely make *disastrous* choices. We may not find the 'perfect' salad dressing; but we usually have an acceptable one. Accept that your choices are imperfect, and it will liberate you from much worry. In short, I think much of the problem of choice is that we worry too much about it. We individuals will need to learn to accept that there's too much out there to know and do; and to be happy that we're making acceptable choices. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 17 09:58:45 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:58:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] grep help Message-ID: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> I want to clean up some mail queues by deleting all MAILER-DAEMON messages over 1 day old. I am getting a list of all daemon messages with the following: postqueue -p | grep "MAILER-DAEMON". How would I finish the command to remove the messages listed, one day old or older. From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 11:00:59 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:00:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] grep help In-Reply-To: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> References: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> Message-ID: Raymond Norton cried from the depths of the abyss... > I want to clean up some mail queues by deleting all MAILER-DAEMON messages > over 1 day old. I am getting a list of all daemon messages with the > following: postqueue -p | grep "MAILER-DAEMON". How would I finish the > command to remove the messages listed, one day old or older. > > Check This: http://maia.deec.uc.pt/Computers/Operating_Systems/Linux/Servers/Mail/Postfix/Postfix_Queue_Management/Queue_Management Good Luck! Mr. B-o-B From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 11:55:50 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:55:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] grep help In-Reply-To: References: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Mar 2011, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > Raymond Norton cried from the depths of the abyss... > >> I want to clean up some mail queues by deleting all MAILER-DAEMON messages >> over 1 day old. I am getting a list of all daemon messages with the >> following: postqueue -p | grep "MAILER-DAEMON". How would I finish the >> command to remove the messages listed, one day old or older. >> >> > > Check This: > > http://maia.deec.uc.pt/Computers/Operating_Systems/Linux/Servers/Mail/Postfix/Postfix_Queue_Management/Queue_Management FYI, the old "tail +2" is now "tail -n+2" I don't know why they changed that. Mike From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:33:06 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:33:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] delete mails based on time in python Message-ID: For deleting mails by time stamp in a directory. cd into directory. python >>> import os, time path = r"c:\tmp" now = time.time() for f in os.listdir(path): if os.stat(f).st_mtime < now - 2 * 86400: if os.path.isfile(f): os.remove(os.path.join(path, f)) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:11:20 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:11:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] delete mails based on time in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: r j cried from the depths of the abyss... > For deleting mails by time stamp in a directory. cd into directory. python > >>> > > > import os, time > > path = r"c:\tmp" > now = time.time() > for f in os.listdir(path): > if os.stat(f).st_mtime < now - 2 * 86400: > if os.path.isfile(f): > os.remove(os.path.join(path, f)) > That is a neat trick. Thanks! Although I don't use this on mail, I do a similar thing from bash: For just files, based on date(+14 days in this example) find /mnt/backups/* -mtime +14 -exec rm {} \; or File & directories recursively: find /mnt/backups/* -mtime +14 -exec rm -fr {} \; or by time (minutes in this example) find /var/www/htdocs/IT_Dept/srvrm_temp/Roseville -type f -mmin +1440 -exec rm {} \; Enjoy! Mr. B-o-B From kc0iog at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 18:58:24 2011 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 18:58:24 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] grep help In-Reply-To: References: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > FYI, the old "tail +2" is now "tail -n+2" > > I don't know why they changed that. Last I checked, the tail included in Solaris doesn't even support -n. I can understand keeping the 'tail +/-2' for compatibilty, but why it doesn't even support -n is beyond me. Brian From kc0iog at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 19:07:55 2011 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:07:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Mark Mitchell wrote: > If, however, the printer is still available when my xtracycle arrives, I'd > be interested. Hopefully the Xtracycle comes equipped with a trailer, a forklift, and two roadies. You've never seen a 4si, have you? ;-) The footprint of a 4si is best expressed in square kilometers. Its weight in metric tons. BUT DANG, these printers rock. I used to admin one that printed overnight jobs from an S/390. About a ream every night (government paper). That 4si outlasted any of the newer HP 4000 series printers. Brian From mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 19:30:51 2011 From: mark.russel.mitchell at gmail.com (Mark Mitchell) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:30:51 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] FREE Laser printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3/18/11, Brian Wall wrote: > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Mark Mitchell > wrote: > >> If, however, the printer is still available when my xtracycle arrives, I'd >> be interested. > > Hopefully the Xtracycle comes equipped with a trailer, a forklift, and > two roadies. You've never seen a 4si, have you? ;-) > > The footprint of a 4si is best expressed in square kilometers. Its > weight in metric tons. > > BUT DANG, these printers rock. I used to admin one that printed > overnight jobs from an S/390. About a ream every night (government > paper). That 4si outlasted any of the newer HP 4000 series printers. > Something like this? Physical specifications Width 54.5 cm (21.5 inches ) Depth (body only) 60.3 cm (23.6 inches) Depth (with letter paper tray) 76.3 cm (30.0 inches) Depth (with legal paper tray) 80.7 cm (31.6 inches) Height 41.8 cm (16.5 inches) Weight (including EP-S cartridge) 55.9 kg (123.0 lb) I still think an xtracycle could handle it. with some digging you can find xtracycles carrying things like; bales of hay kayaks / surfboards 2 55 gallon drums and 125lbs isn't out of the question. However, I will admit that range gets kind of limited with that kind of load. But, nonetheless. I can scrounge a car this weekend, if it's still available. let me know. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 22:11:27 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:11:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] grep help In-Reply-To: References: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Mar 2011, Brian Wall wrote: > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> FYI, the old "tail +2" is now "tail -n+2" >> >> I don't know why they changed that. > > Last I checked, the tail included in Solaris doesn't even support -n. I > can understand keeping the 'tail +/-2' for compatibilty, but why it > doesn't even support -n is beyond me. Good point. I think Solaris is very, very slow to fix problems with their utilities. I remember finding serious bugs or limitations of Solaris versions of awk, sed and fmt, so I stopped using them, but I'm not sure if they ever fixed them. Adding a -n option makes sense. I thought it made sense for GNU to maintain the +n option, but a file could be named "+2" so the command becomes ambiguous if a file by that name exists. Mike From jus at krytosvirus.com Sat Mar 19 07:18:50 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:18:50 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] grep help In-Reply-To: References: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> Message-ID: <495190241-1300537130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1553873563-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Don't most (gnu) commands support the -- notation to signify end of the options and anything after is a file argument, stdin, or whatever? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 22:11:27 To: TCLUG Mailing List Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] grep help On Fri, 18 Mar 2011, Brian Wall wrote: > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> FYI, the old "tail +2" is now "tail -n+2" >> >> I don't know why they changed that. > > Last I checked, the tail included in Solaris doesn't even support -n. I > can understand keeping the 'tail +/-2' for compatibilty, but why it > doesn't even support -n is beyond me. Good point. I think Solaris is very, very slow to fix problems with their utilities. I remember finding serious bugs or limitations of Solaris versions of awk, sed and fmt, so I stopped using them, but I'm not sure if they ever fixed them. Adding a -n option makes sense. I thought it made sense for GNU to maintain the +n option, but a file could be named "+2" so the command becomes ambiguous if a file by that name exists. Mike _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 10:18:42 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:18:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] grep help In-Reply-To: <495190241-1300537130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1553873563-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <4D8221A5.5070509@lctn.org> <495190241-1300537130-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1553873563-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Mar 2011, Justin Krejci wrote: > On Fri, 18 Mar 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I thought it made sense for GNU to maintain the +n option, but a file >> could be named "+2" so the command becomes ambiguous if a file by that >> name exists. > > Don't most (gnu) commands support the -- notation to signify end of the > options and anything after is a file argument, stdin, or whatever? Yes. The idea of -- is that a filename beginning with - will be treated as an option unless you precede it with --. I assume that was how they used to deal with files named +2, or similar. (See below -- it is true.) >From the info page: On older systems, the leading `-' can be replaced by `+' in the obsolete option syntax with the same meaning as in counts, and obsolete usage overrides normal usage when the two conflict. This obsolete behavior can be enabled or disabled with the `_POSIX2_VERSION' environment variable (*note Standards conformance::). Scripts intended for use on standard hosts should avoid obsolete syntax and should use `-c COUNT[b]', `-n COUNT', and/or `-f' instead. If your script must also run on hosts that support only the obsolete syntax, you can often rewrite it to avoid problematic usages, e.g., by using `sed -n '$p'' rather than `tail -1'. If that's not possible, the script can use a test like `if tail -c +1 /dev/null 2>&1; then ...' to decide which syntax to use. Even if your script assumes the standard behavior, you should still beware usages whose behaviors differ depending on the POSIX version. For example, avoid `tail - main.c', since it might be interpreted as either `tail main.c' or as `tail -- - main.c'; avoid `tail -c 4', since it might mean either `tail -c4' or `tail -c 10 4'; and avoid `tail +4', since it might mean either `tail ./+4' or `tail -n +4'. According to this... http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Standards-conformance.html#Standards-conformance ...if you want the old behavior, you can set this: _POSIX2_VERSION=199209 I tried it and it worked: $ export _POSIX2_VERSION=199209 $ echo -e "a\nb\nc\nd" | tail +2 b c d $ echo -e "a\nb\nc\nd" > +2 $ tail +2 +2 b c d $ tail +2 [hangs] $ tail -- +2 a b c d Yep, the -- trick does it. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 14:37:54 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:37:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID Message-ID: I bought these two servers 3.5 years ago for $500 each and thought it was a really good deal. Now I need to get rid of them and will sell them for $150 each or best offer. Photos and info here: http://mlug.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/pics/misc/20070717_Dubois/ I was buying them to use at work, but I ended up getting stuck with them myself and I haven't used them at all -- I actually did plug them in for a while and I installed Ubuntu on them, but that's it. They have literally been sitting around gathering dust, so they should be as good as they were when I bought them (I'll dust them off for you!). They both worked fine. Here's the info from the guy I bought them from (right here on TCLUG): I have 2-left and they are Xeon single core. The 4U chassis is included (see attached photos) There are 15 drive trays without drives and there is 1-drive tray with the 80GB WD drive for the OS. $500 is a very cheap price for these but we are moving and I need to get them out of the warehouse. They are complete and ready for service. On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > New TCLUG Classified Ad > > Category: Computer > > Type of Ad: For Sale > > Subject: Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID > > Supermicro 4U Chassis, X5DPE-G2 Motherboard, Dual 2.4GHz Xeon CPU, 4GB > RAM, 1-80GB WD HDD, Triple Redundant 600W Power Supply, CD, 3Ware 7506-8 > ATA 133 Raid Controller Card (controls 8 drives), Slide Rails, 15-Drive > Bays-NO DRIVES (Avid Caddy IP-010-2104 2-E IP-010-2103 2-E for ATA/IDE > Hard Drive), RHEL 2.4.2 (password on system). > > These systems are configured as a Unistar NAS > > $500 each > 3-pcs still available > > Sincerely, > > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. Best, Mike From jjensen at apache.org Sat Mar 19 17:25:50 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:25:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll take one Mike. Are there hardware docs available? On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I bought these two servers 3.5 years ago for $500 each and thought it was a > really good deal. ?Now I need to get rid of them and will sell them for $150 > each or best offer. ?Photos and info here: > > http://mlug.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/pics/misc/20070717_Dubois/ > > I was buying them to use at work, but I ended up getting stuck with them > myself and I haven't used them at all -- I actually did plug them in for a > while and I installed Ubuntu on them, but that's it. ?They have literally > been sitting around gathering dust, so they should be as good as they were > when I bought them (I'll dust them off for you!). ?They both worked fine. > > > Here's the info from the guy I bought them from (right here on TCLUG): > > > I have 2-left and they are Xeon single core. > The 4U chassis is included (see attached photos) > > There are 15 drive trays without drives and there is 1-drive tray with > the 80GB WD drive for the OS. $500 is a very cheap price for these but > we are moving and I need to get them out of the warehouse. > > They are complete and ready for service. > > > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > >> New TCLUG Classified Ad >> >> Category: Computer >> >> Type of Ad: For Sale >> >> Subject: Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID >> >> Supermicro 4U Chassis, X5DPE-G2 Motherboard, Dual 2.4GHz Xeon CPU, 4GB >> RAM, 1-80GB WD HDD, Triple Redundant 600W Power Supply, CD, 3Ware 7506-8 >> ATA 133 Raid Controller Card (controls 8 drives), Slide Rails, 15-Drive >> Bays-NO DRIVES (Avid Caddy IP-010-2104 2-E IP-010-2103 2-E for ATA/IDE >> Hard Drive), RHEL 2.4.2 (password on system). >> >> These systems are configured as a Unistar NAS >> >> $500 each >> 3-pcs still available >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Casey M. DuBois >> N-VINT, Inc. > > > Best, > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 18:42:34 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:42:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Mar 2011, Jeff Jensen wrote: > I'll take one Mike. Are there hardware docs available? Great. I don't have any docs, but you might find something online. Send me an off-list message to arrange a time to pick it up. I'm by East Lake and 41st Ave South in Minneapolis. Mike > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I bought these two servers 3.5 years ago for $500 each and thought it >> was a really good deal. ?Now I need to get rid of them and will sell >> them for $150 each or best offer. ?Photos and info here: >> >> http://mlug.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/pics/misc/20070717_Dubois/ >> >> I was buying them to use at work, but I ended up getting stuck with >> them myself and I haven't used them at all -- I actually did plug them >> in for a while and I installed Ubuntu on them, but that's it. ?They >> have literally been sitting around gathering dust, so they should be as >> good as they were when I bought them (I'll dust them off for you!). >>?They both worked fine. >> >> >> Here's the info from the guy I bought them from (right here on TCLUG): >> >> >> I have 2-left and they are Xeon single core. The 4U chassis is included >> (see attached photos) >> >> There are 15 drive trays without drives and there is 1-drive tray with >> the 80GB WD drive for the OS. $500 is a very cheap price for these but >> we are moving and I need to get them out of the warehouse. >> >> They are complete and ready for service. >> >> >> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >> >>> New TCLUG Classified Ad >>> >>> Category: Computer >>> >>> Type of Ad: For Sale >>> >>> Subject: Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID >>> >>> Supermicro 4U Chassis, X5DPE-G2 Motherboard, Dual 2.4GHz Xeon CPU, 4GB >>> RAM, 1-80GB WD HDD, Triple Redundant 600W Power Supply, CD, 3Ware 7506-8 >>> ATA 133 Raid Controller Card (controls 8 drives), Slide Rails, 15-Drive >>> Bays-NO DRIVES (Avid Caddy IP-010-2104 2-E IP-010-2103 2-E for ATA/IDE >>> Hard Drive), RHEL 2.4.2 (password on system). >>> >>> These systems are configured as a Unistar NAS >>> >>> $500 each >>> 3-pcs still available >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Casey M. DuBois >>> N-VINT, Inc. >> >> >> Best, >> Mike From squack at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 20:53:42 2011 From: squack at gmail.com (William) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:53:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, I'll take one also if you still have one. William On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I bought these two servers 3.5 years ago for $500 each and thought it was a > really good deal. Now I need to get rid of them and will sell them for $150 > each or best offer. Photos and info here: > > http://mlug.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/pics/misc/20070717_Dubois/ > > I was buying them to use at work, but I ended up getting stuck with them > myself and I haven't used them at all -- I actually did plug them in for a > while and I installed Ubuntu on them, but that's it. They have literally > been sitting around gathering dust, so they should be as good as they were > when I bought them (I'll dust them off for you!). They both worked fine. > > > Here's the info from the guy I bought them from (right here on TCLUG): > > > I have 2-left and they are Xeon single core. > The 4U chassis is included (see attached photos) > > There are 15 drive trays without drives and there is 1-drive tray with > the 80GB WD drive for the OS. $500 is a very cheap price for these but > we are moving and I need to get them out of the warehouse. > > They are complete and ready for service. > > > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: > > New TCLUG Classified Ad >> >> Category: Computer >> >> Type of Ad: For Sale >> >> Subject: Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID >> >> Supermicro 4U Chassis, X5DPE-G2 Motherboard, Dual 2.4GHz Xeon CPU, 4GB >> RAM, 1-80GB WD HDD, Triple Redundant 600W Power Supply, CD, 3Ware 7506-8 >> ATA 133 Raid Controller Card (controls 8 drives), Slide Rails, 15-Drive >> Bays-NO DRIVES (Avid Caddy IP-010-2104 2-E IP-010-2103 2-E for ATA/IDE >> Hard Drive), RHEL 2.4.2 (password on system). >> >> These systems are configured as a Unistar NAS >> >> $500 each >> 3-pcs still available >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Casey M. DuBois >> N-VINT, Inc. >> > > > Best, > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 23:43:52 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 23:43:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Mar 2011, William wrote: > Mike, I'll take one also if you still have one. Great. That means they both are taken now -- assuming people come to pick them up! ;-) Mike > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I bought these two servers 3.5 years ago for $500 each and thought it was a >> really good deal. Now I need to get rid of them and will sell them for $150 >> each or best offer. Photos and info here: >> >> http://mlug.missouri.edu/~mbmiller/pics/misc/20070717_Dubois/ >> >> I was buying them to use at work, but I ended up getting stuck with them >> myself and I haven't used them at all -- I actually did plug them in for a >> while and I installed Ubuntu on them, but that's it. They have literally >> been sitting around gathering dust, so they should be as good as they were >> when I bought them (I'll dust them off for you!). They both worked fine. >> >> >> Here's the info from the guy I bought them from (right here on TCLUG): >> >> >> I have 2-left and they are Xeon single core. >> The 4U chassis is included (see attached photos) >> >> There are 15 drive trays without drives and there is 1-drive tray with >> the 80GB WD drive for the OS. $500 is a very cheap price for these but >> we are moving and I need to get them out of the warehouse. >> >> They are complete and ready for service. >> >> >> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, TCLUG Classifieds wrote: >> >> New TCLUG Classified Ad >>> >>> Category: Computer >>> >>> Type of Ad: For Sale >>> >>> Subject: Supermicro, 4U, Dual 2.4, 4GB, 3Ware RAID >>> >>> Supermicro 4U Chassis, X5DPE-G2 Motherboard, Dual 2.4GHz Xeon CPU, 4GB >>> RAM, 1-80GB WD HDD, Triple Redundant 600W Power Supply, CD, 3Ware 7506-8 >>> ATA 133 Raid Controller Card (controls 8 drives), Slide Rails, 15-Drive >>> Bays-NO DRIVES (Avid Caddy IP-010-2104 2-E IP-010-2103 2-E for ATA/IDE >>> Hard Drive), RHEL 2.4.2 (password on system). >>> >>> These systems are configured as a Unistar NAS >>> >>> $500 each >>> 3-pcs still available >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Casey M. DuBois >>> N-VINT, Inc. >>> >> >> >> Best, >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Mar 21 10:45:44 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:45:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty In-Reply-To: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> References: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 17:04 -0500, Mr. B-o-B wrote: > from the changelog: > > Wed Mar 16 06:20:03 UTC 2011 > Slackware 13.37 release candidate 2 is ready for testing. > Are we almost there? > > Slackware 13.37 coming to an .iso near you soon. So this is the Slackware Elite release then? From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:15:00 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:15:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment Message-ID: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> For now, I'm on Windows and I have a bash script written for doing encodes using AviSynth (which, IIRC, is either a PITA or impossible to properly set up on Linux). Anyway, I'd like to move away from a MinGW/MSYS environment (the project as a whole is updated semi-regularly, but most of the programs are really old versions) and dependence on external programs (e.g. sed, basename, tr). Since I'm using Windows, I've looked into PowerShell. It has a ton of features built-in that can replace the standard Unix utilities, and comes pre-installed with Windows 7, but it's also extremely complicated, not that great as just a shell (no history from past sessions, it has cmd's annoying version of tab completion, and one can't cycle through past commands and go back to an empty prompt, just like cmd), and it uses quite a bit of memory compared to bash, which is an issue since the denoiser I use needs tons of memory. It seems like a Windows domain admin's wet dream, but not quite right for my purposes. cmd might be able to do the job, but I really don't want to spend my time working around its limitations. Can anyone recommend a scripting language that's easy to learn, easy to keep up-to-date on Windows (I would prefer that the interpreter is just a file or two that can be dropped into a directory in my path rather than something installed in the usual manner) and has built-in functionality that can replace at least some of the utilities I use (grep, sed, basename and tr)? From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Mar 21 11:42:14 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:42:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 11:15 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote: > For now, I'm on Windows and I have a bash script written for doing > encodes using AviSynth (which, IIRC, is either a PITA or impossible to > properly set up on Linux). Anyway, I'd like to move away from a > MinGW/MSYS environment (the project as a whole is updated > semi-regularly, but most of the programs are really old versions) and > dependence on external programs (e.g. sed, basename, tr). Since I'm > using Windows, I've looked into PowerShell. It has a ton of features > built-in that can replace the standard Unix utilities, and comes > pre-installed with Windows 7, but it's also extremely complicated, not > that great as just a shell (no history from past sessions, it has cmd's > annoying version of tab completion, and one can't cycle through past > commands and go back to an empty prompt, just like cmd), and it uses > quite a bit of memory compared to bash, which is an issue since the > denoiser I use needs tons of memory. It seems like a Windows domain > admin's wet dream, but not quite right for my purposes. cmd might be > able to do the job, but I really don't want to spend my time working > around its limitations. Can anyone recommend a scripting language that's > easy to learn, easy to keep up-to-date on Windows (I would prefer that > the interpreter is just a file or two that can be dropped into a > directory in my path rather than something installed in the usual > manner) and has built-in functionality that can replace at least some of > the utilities I use (grep, sed, basename and tr)? Perl and Python I know work on Windows really well and should be able to do all of your grep/sed/tr type work with no difficulties at all. You can also use Cygwin on Windows which for me has worked pretty well in the past when I was stuck on a Win box. From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 12:12:25 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:12:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> Message-ID: <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> On 2011.03.21 11:42 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Perl and Python I know work on Windows really well and should be able to > do all of your grep/sed/tr type work with no difficulties at all. Can I use either for everyday command line stuff like I would with bash? From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 12:15:52 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:15:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk Message-ID: Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, you know. One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but the problem is there's only room for one keyboard. The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate multiple keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and definitely aren't local. Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a desk, anyone know a good place for these kind of things? -Yaron -- From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 12:19:43 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:19:43 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment (Andrew Berg) Message-ID: I think Python is the way to go for cross platform scripting. It installs to C:\python if you want to run commands on windows or linux use import os you can then assign that to anything you want like doStuff = os.system('dir /a') or a linux example os.system('ls -la') total 7477440 drwx------. 55 ron ron 4096 Mar 21 11:53 . drwxr-xr-x. 4 root root 4096 Mar 2 23:24 .. drwx------. 2 ron ron 4096 Mar 9 01:38 .AbiSuite drwx------. 4 ron ron 4096 Mar 4 00:10 .adobe drwxrwxr-x. 4 ron ron 4096 Mar 20 13:38 Aptana Studio Workspace -rw-rw-r--. 1 ron ron 743 Mar 5 23:49 aray1 -rw-rw-r--. 1 ron ron 611 Mar 5 23:47 aray1~ -rw-------. 1 ron ron 2114 Mar 20 21:41 .bash_history -rw-r--r--. 1 ron ron 18 Jun 22 2010 .bash_logout -rw-r--r--. 1 ron ron 176 Jun 22 2010 .bash_profile -rw-r--r--. 1 ron ron 124 Jun 22 2010 .bashrc drwxr-xr-x. 3 ron ron 4096 Mar 20 21:41 .bluefish drwx------. 6 ron ron 4096 Mar 8 10:03 .cache drwxrwxr-x. 2 ron ron 4096 Mar 10 13:56 code drwxr-xr-x. 18 ron ron 4096 Mar 11 00:51 .config -rw-rw-r--. 1 ron ron 12 Mar 20 19:42 data.txt drwx------. 3 ron ron 4096 Mar 2 23:24 .dbus drwxrwxr-x. 4 ron ron 4096 Mar 11 00:57 .designer drwxr-xr-x. 2 ron ron 4096 Mar 21 11:52 Desktop drwxr-xr-x. 8 ron ron 4096 Mar 10 22:25 Django-1.2.5 -rw-rw-r--. 1 ron ron 6379313 Mar 10 22:21 Django-1.2.5.tar mylist = os.system('ls -la') then mylist is the os.system command Operating systems are trivial sets of commands to be run. I would get off my horse about python, except ,instead of horses, we have squires who bang coconuts together. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeruvin at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 12:23:56 2011 From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:23:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ikea Hacks tend to be a good place for some easy to mangle ideas. Jason Reynolds On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Yaron wrote: > Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. > > I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, you know. > One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but the problem is there's > only room for one keyboard. > > The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate multiple > keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and definitely aren't > local. > > Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a desk, anyone > know a good place for these kind of things? > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Mar 21 12:25:59 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:25:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 12:12 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2011.03.21 11:42 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > > Perl and Python I know work on Windows really well and should be able to > > do all of your grep/sed/tr type work with no difficulties at all. > Can I use either for everyday command line stuff like I would with bash? Not Perl or Python no, but you can with Cygwin. In fact I've just keep a bunch of cygwin .exe and .dll files around on my USB flash drive and copy them to c:\bin and then add that directory to the global "PATH" windows variable so I can use grep, ls, df, du, sort, uniq, tar, gzip, cmp, diff, file, tail, etc. From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 12:26:18 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:26:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, but adding a keyboard station usually means gluing two desks together. Also I'd rather have stuff that won't, you know. Fall apart (; If I'm going to hack a desk I'm doing it from scratch, so that I can have all the cables go through the inside of the thing. Oh god, see? It's starting already! That misguided idea that I kinow how to build furniture! On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, jason reynolds wrote: > Ikea Hacks tend to be a good place for some easy to mangle ideas. > Jason Reynolds > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Yaron wrote: > Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. > > I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, > you know. One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but > the problem is there's only room for one keyboard. > > The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate > multiple keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and > definitely aren't local. > > Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a > desk, anyone know a good place for these kind of things? > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > jason > > -Yaron -- From j at packetgod.com Mon Mar 21 12:39:11 2011 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:39:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Synergy isn't an option? I've gone to the one keyboard and mouse to rule them all synergy method and it works great. (just use ssh to tunnel all the traffic) --j On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Yaron wrote: > Yeah, but adding a keyboard station usually means gluing two desks > together. Also I'd rather have stuff that won't, you know. Fall apart (; > > If I'm going to hack a desk I'm doing it from scratch, so that I can have > all the cables go through the inside of the thing. Oh god, see? It's > starting already! That misguided idea that I kinow how to build furniture! > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, jason reynolds wrote: > > Ikea Hacks tend to be a good place for some easy to mangle ideas. >> Jason Reynolds >> >> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Yaron wrote: >> Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. >> >> I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, >> you know. One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but >> the problem is there's only room for one keyboard. >> >> The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate >> multiple keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and >> definitely aren't local. >> >> Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a >> desk, anyone know a good place for these kind of things? >> >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> -- >> jason >> >> >> > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 12:46:43 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:46:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No, Synergy and/or KVMs are not an option. I actually want a real keyboard/mouse/pointing devices on real screens all the time. On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, J Cruit wrote: > Synergy isn't an option? ?I've gone to the one keyboard and mouse to rule > them all synergy method and it works great. ?(just use ssh to tunnel all the > traffic) > --j > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Yaron wrote: > Yeah, but adding a keyboard station usually means gluing two > desks together. Also I'd rather have stuff that won't, you know. > Fall apart (; > > If I'm going to hack a desk I'm doing it from scratch, so that I > can have all the cables go through the inside of the thing. Oh > god, see? It's starting already! That misguided idea that I > kinow how to build furniture! > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, jason reynolds wrote: > > Ikea Hacks tend to be a good place for some easy to mangle > ideas. > Jason Reynolds > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Yaron > wrote: > ? ? ?Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. > > ? ? ?I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you > only have, > ? ? ?you know. One computer. Sure, I have three monitors > on it, but > ? ? ?the problem is there's only room for one keyboard. > > ? ? ?The only desks/workstations I've found that can > accomodate > ? ? ?multiple keyboard stations cost an insane fortune > (>$2K!!!) and > ? ? ?definitely aren't local. > > ? ? ?Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just > BUILD a > ? ? ?desk, anyone know a good place for these kind of > things? > > > ? ? ?-Yaron > > ? ? ?-- > ? ? ?_______________________________________________ > ? ? ?TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > ? ? ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org > ? ? > ?http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > jason > > > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -Yaron -- From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 12:51:48 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:51:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh and I apologise if I sound dismissive; Ikea is definitely worth looking into and Synergy /is/ a pretty neat product (: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, J Cruit wrote: > Synergy isn't an option? ?I've gone to the one keyboard and mouse to rule > them all synergy method and it works great. ?(just use ssh to tunnel all the > traffic) > --j > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Yaron wrote: > Yeah, but adding a keyboard station usually means gluing two > desks together. Also I'd rather have stuff that won't, you know. > Fall apart (; > > If I'm going to hack a desk I'm doing it from scratch, so that I > can have all the cables go through the inside of the thing. Oh > god, see? It's starting already! That misguided idea that I > kinow how to build furniture! > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, jason reynolds wrote: > > Ikea Hacks tend to be a good place for some easy to mangle > ideas. > Jason Reynolds > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Yaron > wrote: > ? ? ?Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. > > ? ? ?I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you > only have, > ? ? ?you know. One computer. Sure, I have three monitors > on it, but > ? ? ?the problem is there's only room for one keyboard. > > ? ? ?The only desks/workstations I've found that can > accomodate > ? ? ?multiple keyboard stations cost an insane fortune > (>$2K!!!) and > ? ? ?definitely aren't local. > > ? ? ?Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just > BUILD a > ? ? ?desk, anyone know a good place for these kind of > things? > > > ? ? ?-Yaron > > ? ? ?-- > ? ? ?_______________________________________________ > ? ? ?TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > ? ? ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org > ? ? > ?http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > jason > > > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -Yaron -- From justin.kremer at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 12:55:41 2011 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:41 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Yaron wrote: > No, Synergy and/or KVMs are not an option. I actually want a real > keyboard/mouse/pointing devices on real screens all the time. Do you want to have a keyboard tray for each system, or is it enough to just have enough desk space? The desk I have could (and sometimes does) accomodate three workstations/laptops, but two of the three keyboards and mice have to sit on top of the desk. And yes, it is from Ikea, but it is higher end, made of solid wood instead of particle board. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30064057 It doesn't look all that big in the picture, but when I'm sitting at it, it feels HUGE. And that shelf on the right could be placed above a workstation on the left to give space for two workstations inside the desk. I have done that, too. - Justin From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 12:59:30 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:59:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Yaron new desk Message-ID: I think maybe you just need a USB switch. So if you have a usb keyboard and you need it to send a signal to multiple computers why not get a switch ? Then when you need to input you just flip a switch and save lots of money and time with your current desk. and maybe get one really sweet keyboard too :D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 13:02:26 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:02:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's pretty much what I do now - put some keyboards/laptops on the "desk" part, with the 'main' keyboard on the keyboard trey. That's... ok, but not very good ergonomically. Plus... the three monitors on my current desk are all hooked up to one computer (with VNCs/etc going to other machines). I'm going to need space for additional screens, too, which means a bigger desk (or an additional desk) and I just thought, hey, why not just rearrange my entire office. And since I'm doing THAT, may as well make a cool multi-keyboard kinda thing. Honestly the saddest thing here is that I refuse to sit with my back to the door, even in my home office. Then I could mount all the screens on the wall and have a small keyboard-rack or something... On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Justin Kremer wrote: > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Yaron wrote: >> No, Synergy and/or KVMs are not an option. I actually want a real >> keyboard/mouse/pointing devices on real screens all the time. > > Do you want to have a keyboard tray for each system, or is it enough > to just have enough desk space? The desk I have could (and sometimes > does) accomodate three workstations/laptops, but two of the three > keyboards and mice have to sit on top of the desk. > And yes, it is from Ikea, but it is higher end, made of solid wood > instead of particle board. > http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30064057 > It doesn't look all that big in the picture, but when I'm sitting at > it, it feels HUGE. > And that shelf on the right could be placed above a workstation on the > left to give space for two workstations inside the desk. I have done > that, too. > - Justin > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -Yaron -- From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 13:07:05 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:07:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Yaron new desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nah, like I said I need an actual keyboard/mouse/etc onactual screens all the time. I don't want to switch around. Consider that I already HAVE all the keyboards/mice/input devices/screens, so I don't need to buy any of those. Another thing is that we're talking a LOT of screens here, and some of them mean I'd have to tyrn my head way the heck over to the side if I'm just using the main keyboard. Not super practical (: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, r j wrote: > I think maybe you just need a USB switch. > So if you have a usb keyboard and you need it to send a signal to multiple > computers why not get a switch ? > Then when you need to input you just flip a switch and save lots of money > and time with your current desk. > and maybe get one really sweet keyboard too :D > > -Yaron -- From florin at iucha.net Mon Mar 21 13:08:17 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:08:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110321180816.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:51:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > Oh and I apologise if I sound dismissive; Ikea is definitely worth > looking into and Synergy /is/ a pretty neat product (: _Some_ stuff from Ikea is good, but I have pushed and pulled all their work desks and tables and they are all wobbly. At that quality, I would not haul it home if it was free. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kjh at flyballdogs.com Mon Mar 21 12:54:01 2011 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:54:01 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a23a48e8cf2f96e8ce872bd164a6f78.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> Yaron wrote: > Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. > > I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, you know. > One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but the problem is > there's only room for one keyboard. > > The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate multiple > keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and definitely aren't > local. > > Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a desk, anyone > know a good place for these kind of things? Why not just use a KVM? If you want the monitors hooked up to separate computers, just hook up the keyboard and mouse. -- Kathryn http://womensfooty.com US Freedom Signup: http://womensfooty.com/freedom/2011 From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 13:10:53 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:10:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: <20110321180816.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> References: <20110321180816.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: Seeing as I'd have to hack the thing anyway, we're looking at their stuff as a base, rather than a finished product. Also, seriously if I built one from scratch, it'd be lucky if all it did was wobble... On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:51:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: >> Oh and I apologise if I sound dismissive; Ikea is definitely worth >> looking into and Synergy /is/ a pretty neat product (: > > _Some_ stuff from Ikea is good, but I have pushed and pulled all their > work desks and tables and they are all wobbly. At that quality, I would > not haul it home if it was free. > > Cheers, > florin > > -- > Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. > http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 > -Yaron -- From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 13:14:43 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:14:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: <4a23a48e8cf2f96e8ce872bd164a6f78.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> References: <4a23a48e8cf2f96e8ce872bd164a6f78.squirrel@flyballdogs.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Kathryn Hogg wrote: > Why not just use a KVM? If you want the monitors hooked up to separate > computers, just hook up the keyboard and mouse. Several reasons (most of which I detailed already but hey): 1. I actually want to be able to type on every computer without switching anything. 2. With so many screens, the keyboard ends up being way off to the side, which makes it extremely uncomfortable (think typing to a screen while looking over your shoulder). 3. Tried it, it's very annoying. -Yaron -- From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 13:30:58 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:30:58 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Yaron desk ** 2 Message-ID: ok then I think maybe a mobile idea would work. http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=4356 You can get a monitor tree to accommodate multiple monitors or keyboards. I think the old school idea of a desk is not an ergonomic option as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 13:37:18 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:37:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Yaron desk ** 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Those things are pretty neat. The problem is that there's no desk-space for me to put all my junk (: Nonetheless, maybe something integrating those would be cool. I don't see any 'monitor trees', though... On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, r j wrote: > ok then I think maybe a mobile idea would work. > http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=4356 > > You can get a monitor tree to accommodate multiple monitors or keyboards. > I think the old school idea of a desk is not an ergonomic option as well. > > -Yaron -- From john.meier at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 14:00:03 2011 From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:00:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Yaron wrote: > Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. > > I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, you know. > One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but the problem is there's > only room for one keyboard. > > The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate multiple > keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and definitely aren't > local. > > Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a desk, anyone > know a good place for these kind of things? > > I made a very simple desk/work bench. I scored an 8ft counter top from home depot, and some 2x4s and they have a workbench brackets that you slide the 2x4s into to make the legs and what not. THere's also a neat kit at Northern tool ( http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200226224_200226224) - this kit has a nice shelf system - perfect for getting the monitors up off the desk surface - down side is that you're stuck with the height they give you. My "desk" sits a bit above waist level as I tend to work better standing up. I also have a drafting style chair for the times I need to sit. > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Mar 21 14:23:48 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:23:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, John Meier wrote: > I made a very simple desk/work bench. ?I scored an 8ft counter top from home > depot, and some 2x4s and they have a workbench brackets that you slide the > 2x4s into to make the legs and what not. ?THere's also a neat kit at > Northern tool That's pretty cool. One thing I have a problem with is keeping things simple. I mean if I'm building it I want every single bell and whistle I can think if. Adjustable height keyboard shelves, internal cable routing, built-in hubs and power, maybe screen mounts... you know, crazy stuff (; -Yaron -- From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Mon Mar 21 15:19:17 2011 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:19:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: <20110321180816.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <4D87B2C5.3040109@Goecke-Dolan.com> If you are going to be hacking stuff you might want to look at getting some used furniture. The State surplus store often has furniture http://www.fss.state.mn.us/garagesale.htm I believe there is a U of M surplus store also, but I never been there. http://www1.umn.edu/reuse/ May not be exactly what you want, but it might give you some idea's on what to do. Maybe even get you some parts. And you could bring a few keyboards and set them out and see how they fit! Just an idea. Good Luck! ==>brian. BTW. I still am using the bricks and plywood I was using in College (20 years ago). With a 3x8 foot desk with three monitors (2 old 21inch crt's and a lcd) on it two keyboards (and it is facing the door). I mostly use one keyboard with x2x... unless I have to run Windows, or configuring a new system, then I have to use the other keyboard and monitor! Yea I have a very messy office. On 03/21/2011 01:10 PM, Yaron wrote: > Seeing as I'd have to hack the thing anyway, we're looking at their > stuff as a base, rather than a finished product. > > Also, seriously if I built one from scratch, it'd be lucky if all it did > was wobble... > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Florin Iucha wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:51:48PM -0500, Yaron wrote: >>> Oh and I apologise if I sound dismissive; Ikea is definitely worth >>> looking into and Synergy /is/ a pretty neat product (: >> >> _Some_ stuff from Ikea is good, but I have pushed and pulled all their >> work desks and tables and they are all wobbly. At that quality, I would >> not haul it home if it was free. >> >> Cheers, >> florin >> >> -- >> Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. >> http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 >> > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 15:35:44 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:35:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] yaron desk {x | x < 4} Message-ID: Fully adjustable pole mount monitor mounts articulating monitor mounts start thinking bolt on cross bar. Ziotek Monitor Swivel Mount for Post, w/Adapters, Up to 30lbs. Ziotek 51in. Dual Slot-mount Crossbar Mounting System Ziotek Aluminum Free Standing 4-Groove Post ZT1110321 Position your LCD monitors and keyboard arm at any height with a space-saving free standing post. The 23.5" tall post supports a keyboard arm and up to three monitor arms (not included) for a complete, clutter-free workstation. Outstanding for presentations and other situations where you stand in front of your computer. http://www.cyberguys.com/product-listings/?categoryid=892 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Mon Mar 21 15:59:18 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:59:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: <4D87B2C5.3040109@Goecke-Dolan.com>; from goeko@Goecke-Dolan.com on Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 03:19:17PM -0500 References: <20110321180816.GI3082@styx.iucha.org> <4D87B2C5.3040109@Goecke-Dolan.com> Message-ID: <20110321155918.C26757@real-time.com> I got lucky and found a huge desk that a computer store was getting rid of for only $100. It's about 6'x30" and built out of an aluminum and carboard honeycomb top that's terribly strong and yet lightweight. I don't like not facing the door either; but ATM I find it far more useful to face the windows looking out over my driveway and front yard. I tend to pile my computers and other crap onto wire racking like this stuff: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=wire+racking&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=12007591412857286887&sa=X&ei=KbuHTaDhF42SgQfMvLTSCA&ved=0CFMQ8gIwAw# it's not fashionable; but it is strong and good for cooling. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From j at packetgod.com Mon Mar 21 14:54:38 2011 From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:54:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I knew I shouldn't have continued to read this thread, I may have to go buy one of those now. I could see how you could totally hack their design to make a cool massive computer system. Even doing some router work (the other kind of router) to make wire management, putting in monitor mounts and adjusting everything to the exact dimensions you want. I really didn't need another project right now! On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 2:00 PM, John Meier wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Yaron wrote: > >> Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. >> >> I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, you know. >> One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but the problem is there's >> only room for one keyboard. >> >> The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate multiple >> keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and definitely aren't >> local. >> >> Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a desk, anyone >> know a good place for these kind of things? >> >> > I made a very simple desk/work bench. I scored an 8ft counter top from > home depot, and some 2x4s and they have a workbench brackets that you slide > the 2x4s into to make the legs and what not. THere's also a neat kit at > Northern tool ( > http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200226224_200226224) - this > kit has a nice shelf system - perfect for getting the monitors up off the > desk surface - down side is that you're stuck with the height they give you. > > My "desk" sits a bit above waist level as I tend to work better standing > up. I also have a drafting style chair for the times I need to sit. > > >> >> -Yaron >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Mon Mar 21 16:20:10 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:20:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: ; from j@packetgod.com on Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 02:54:38PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20110321162010.D26757@real-time.com> On 03/21 02:54 , J Cruit wrote: > I knew I shouldn't have continued to read this thread, I may have to go buy > one of those now. I could see how you could totally hack their design to > make a cool massive computer system. Using the prebuilt hardware has some advantages. The homebuilt airplane community has some pretty impressive workbenches at times. Here's one useful thread: http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/workshop-tips-secrets-tools/4456-my-workbench-build-sorry-long-lots-pics.html Just keep this piece of wisdom in mind: "No matter how many work benches you have and how big they are, your free working area is always exactly six square inches. I have nine work benches and I cant find a piece of space to work on." -- George Sychrovsky Given more ambition and surety about how I want things laid out, I might very well be mounting monitors and even smaller items on repositionable arms so they 'float' around my workspace and can be pushed hither, thither, and yon. Of course, the extension of that thought would be to get a display about 3'x6' (or appearing to be about that size on a head-mounted VR display) and push VNC windows around. ;) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From kc0iog at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 18:37:17 2011 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 18:37:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty In-Reply-To: <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> References: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > So this is the Slackware Elite release then? Aren't they all? *ducks* Brian From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 19:42:23 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:42:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty In-Reply-To: <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> References: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> Message-ID: Justin Krejci cried from the depths of the abyss... >> Slackware 13.37 coming to an .iso near you soon. > > So this is the Slackware Elite release then? > That is possible. Could also be the Leet or Eleet release as well. Hard to say. Perhaps the official announcement will say when it is released. Perhaps not. Mr. B-o-B From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 22:16:41 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:16:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Justin Krejci wrote: > On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 12:12 -0500, Andrew Berg wrote: > >> On 2011.03.21 11:42 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: >> >>> Perl and Python I know work on Windows really well and should be able >>> to do all of your grep/sed/tr type work with no difficulties at all. >> >> Can I use either for everyday command line stuff like I would with >> bash? > > Not Perl or Python no, but you can with Cygwin. In fact I've just keep a > bunch of cygwin .exe and .dll files around on my USB flash drive and > copy them to c:\bin and then add that directory to the global "PATH" > windows variable so I can use grep, ls, df, du, sort, uniq, tar, gzip, > cmp, diff, file, tail, etc. I agree that Cygwin is a great system for Windows. I'm not sure of what the minimal installation is because I usually install pretty much all of it. I also keep it on a flash drive. Look here for info on how to install to a portable drive: http://www.google.com/search?q=portable+cygwin It gives you a bash shell and loads of utilities. It is much like running Linux inside of Windows. Of course, it isn't the same thing. One noticeable difference is that doing file listings with "ls" seems very slow most of the time. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 22:40:46 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 22:40:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? Message-ID: Is there a good, free (as in FOSS) program that will allow me to access some Linux filesystems (especially ext3 or ext4) from Windows? I would just need read-only functionality. I really don't like using NTFS with Linux, so I'll want to use ext3 or ext4, probably, on external devices with Linux, but sometimes I'll want to access those files from Windows. It would be especially great if the program could run from a flash drive. Have any recommendations? Mike From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 23:17:31 2011 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:17:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No. (There are options, but they are neither free nor good.) - Tony From florin at iucha.net Mon Mar 21 23:48:21 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:48:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110322044821.GM3082@styx.iucha.org> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:40:46PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > Is there a good, free (as in FOSS) program that will allow me to access > some Linux filesystems (especially ext3 or ext4) from Windows? I would > just need read-only functionality. I really don't like using NTFS with > Linux, so I'll want to use ext3 or ext4, probably, on external devices > with Linux, but sometimes I'll want to access those files from Windows. > It would be especially great if the program could run from a flash drive. > > Have any recommendations? Any problem in computer science can be solved by adding a level of indirection. Install Linux in a VirtualBox instance, and export the filesystem to the Windows host via Samba. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Mon Mar 21 23:53:30 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:53:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Desk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D882B4A.2000505@e-skinner.net> I got a corner desk from office max about 6 years ago - it doesn't look like they sell it any more - it was about $700, but has enough room for 3-4 keyboards on the desk at all times, i run 2 laptops on either side and a main keyboard in the middle. I have 3-24" monitors side by side in front of me - it came with a nice 3 tier monitor unit that sits on top of the desk. On one side it also has 2 drawers for typical paper files. In the center under the desk is a built in cubby hole for my main tower - which is about 3 feet tall. It actually came with an keyboard drawer - but that was too low for me, so I removed it. This is about the closest I found - but it doesn't have the built in monitor multi-level setup that mine does. http://www.officemax.com/office-furniture/desks-laptop-stands/pg16?position=16&refine=1&history=rfmo9mwc|categoryId~10001^categoryName~office-furniture^parentCategoryID~category_root^prodPage~25^region~1 at 161liax0|prodPage~15^refine~1^region~1^categoryName~desks-laptop-stands^categoryId~cat1390010^parentCategoryID~cat_10001 at fp51qr3i|refineName~Price^prodPage~15^refine~1^sub_attr_name~2^region~1^refineValue~529+%3C%3D++%3C%3D+769.99&prodPage=15 Good luck! On 03/21/2011 12:15 PM, Yaron wrote: > Not /totally/ Linux-related but hey. > > I need a new desk. This one's fine and all, when you only have, you > know. One computer. Sure, I have three monitors on it, but the problem > is there's only room for one keyboard. > > The only desks/workstations I've found that can accomodate multiple > keyboard stations cost an insane fortune (>$2K!!!) and definitely aren't > local. > > Now before I get the idea in my head that I can just BUILD a desk, > anyone know a good place for these kind of things? > > > -Yaron > > -- > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 01:02:54 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:02:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Tony Yarusso wrote: > No. > > (There are options, but they are neither free nor good.) Thanks. That's what I was afraid of. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 01:06:03 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:06:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? In-Reply-To: <20110322044821.GM3082@styx.iucha.org> References: <20110322044821.GM3082@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:40:46PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Is there a good, free (as in FOSS) program that will allow me to access >> some Linux filesystems (especially ext3 or ext4) from Windows? I would >> just need read-only functionality. I really don't like using NTFS with >> Linux, so I'll want to use ext3 or ext4, probably, on external devices >> with Linux, but sometimes I'll want to access those files from Windows. >> It would be especially great if the program could run from a flash >> drive. >> >> Have any recommendations? > > Any problem in computer science can be solved by adding a level of > indirection. > > Install Linux in a VirtualBox instance, and export the filesystem to the > Windows host via Samba. That's an interesting scheme. Is there any way to make that easy to do? Can I have the virtual box and linux on a flash drive, click something and have it run? It sounds pretty tricky for a portable system. Mike From bgilbertson at rrt.net Tue Mar 22 06:44:21 2011 From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (bgilbertson) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 06:44:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? Message-ID: <4d888b95.23b8.b402bb90.392b526c@rrt.net> Years ago I used explore2fs for this. Worked well for its purpose. I don't know what condition it is in now though. http://www.chrysocome.net/explore2fs Bob On Monday 21/03/2011 at 10:41 pm, Mike Miller wrote: > Is there a good, free (as in FOSS) program that will allow me to > access > some Linux filesystems (especially ext3 or ext4) from Windows? I > would > just need read-only functionality. I really don't like using NTFS > with > Linux, so I'll want to use ext3 or ext4, probably, on external devices > with Linux, but sometimes I'll want to access those files from > Windows. > It would be especially great if the program could run from a flash > drive. > > Have any recommendations? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us Tue Mar 22 07:05:11 2011 From: jmk at kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us (James Kaufman) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:05:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D889077.6070308@kaufman.eden-prairie.mn.us> On 03/21/2011 10:40 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > Is there a good, free (as in FOSS) program that will allow me to access > some Linux filesystems (especially ext3 or ext4) from Windows? I would > just need read-only functionality. I really don't like using NTFS with > Linux, so I'll want to use ext3 or ext4, probably, on external devices > with Linux, but sometimes I'll want to access those files from Windows. > It would be especially great if the program could run from a flash drive. > > Have any recommendations? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Has anyone tried http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/ They claim to be able to read ext2/ext3/ext4/reiser... The reader is free. They sell software to write also. I have never tried their software. I think I'll grab a copy at work and see it in action. Jim From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 07:37:14 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:37:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty In-Reply-To: References: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> Message-ID: Mr. B-o-B cried from the depths of the abyss... > Justin Krejci cried from the depths of the abyss... > >>> Slackware 13.37 coming to an .iso near you soon. >> Looks like another release candidate is ready :) Tue Mar 22 06:59:13 UTC 2011 We'll call this Slackware 13.37 release candidate 3. It seems like most of the important pieces are in place now. :-) --- In case anyone care, this was the only mention in the change log to the 13.37: Slackware 13.37 (hopefully this helps make up for our lack of code names) From jus at krytosvirus.com Tue Mar 22 08:50:07 2011 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:50:07 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty In-Reply-To: References: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> Message-ID: <1490766891-1300801808-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064225504-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Don't you mean RC 3 13.37? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Mr. B-o-B" Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:37:14 To: Mr. B-o-B Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List Cc: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty Mr. B-o-B cried from the depths of the abyss... > Justin Krejci cried from the depths of the abyss... > >>> Slackware 13.37 coming to an .iso near you soon. >> Looks like another release candidate is ready :) Tue Mar 22 06:59:13 UTC 2011 We'll call this Slackware 13.37 release candidate 3. It seems like most of the important pieces are in place now. :-) --- In case anyone care, this was the only mention in the change log to the 13.37: Slackware 13.37 (hopefully this helps make up for our lack of code names) _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:44:30 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:44:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Just doing my duty In-Reply-To: <1490766891-1300801808-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064225504-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <4D8133E2.8080206@gmail.com> <1300722344.3067.5.camel@sysadmin3a> <1490766891-1300801808-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2064225504-@bda2106.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4D88C3DE.2050501@gmail.com> On 3/22/2011 8:50 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Don't you mean RC 3 13.37? > Yes. That is correct. From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:33:50 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:33:50 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> Message-ID: <4D88DD7E.3050103@gmail.com> On 2011.03.21 10:16 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > I agree that Cygwin is a great system for Windows. I'm not sure of what > the minimal installation is because I usually install pretty much all of > it. I found Cygwin annoying since /everything/ depends on the base library. MinGW/MSYS is basically the same thing, except without that dependence. Anyway, I'm learning Python, and while it would be horrendous to do basic CLI things with the interpreter, I think I'll be able to do some really neat things that I couldn't do with bash in my scripts. I'll stick with bash for interactive use, but Python looks extremely useful for scripting. I decided to take a crack at PowerShell as well in order to poke around the internals of Windows. The Windows NT backend is extremely flexible, but there's a lack of good GUI tools to take advantage. And of course, there are times when a CLI is million times more efficient anyway. From jim at jameskaufman.org Tue Mar 22 07:16:36 2011 From: jim at jameskaufman.org (James Kaufman) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 07:16:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] reading Linux filesystems from Windows? In-Reply-To: <4d888b95.23b8.b402bb90.392b526c@rrt.net> References: <4d888b95.23b8.b402bb90.392b526c@rrt.net> Message-ID: <4D889324.3070105@jameskaufman.org> On 03/22/2011 06:44 AM, bgilbertson wrote: > Years ago I used explore2fs for this. Worked well for its purpose. > I don't know what condition it is in now though. > http://www.chrysocome.net/explore2fs > > Bob > > > On Monday 21/03/2011 at 10:41 pm, Mike Miller wrote: >> Is there a good, free (as in FOSS) program that will allow me to access >> some Linux filesystems (especially ext3 or ext4) from Windows? I would >> just need read-only functionality. I really don't like using NTFS with >> Linux, so I'll want to use ext3 or ext4, probably, on external devices >> with Linux, but sometimes I'll want to access those files from Windows. >> It would be especially great if the program could run from a flash drive. >> >> Have any recommendations? >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > Has anyone tried http://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/ ? They claim to have a free (no cost) reader that handles ext2/ext3/ext4, and reiser fs. I think I'll grab a copy and try it out at work today. Jim From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 13:33:28 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:33:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: <4D88DD7E.3050103@gmail.com> References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D88DD7E.3050103@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Andrew Berg wrote: > I found Cygwin annoying since /everything/ depends on the base library. What is annoying about that? I mean, is it something to do with speed, file size, portability? There must be something that annoys you. Maybe it annoys me too, but I don't understand the issue. > MinGW/MSYS is basically the same thing, except without that dependence. Is it portable? Maybe that would be even better than Cygwin for some of the things I do. By the way, I hate the Cygwin terminal window -- it seems to be the MS Windows command window with bash running in it. I always use an rxvt terminal in Cygwin. Mike From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 13:49:28 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:49:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D88DD7E.3050103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D88EF38.30109@gmail.com> On 2011.03.22 01:33 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Andrew Berg wrote: > > > I found Cygwin annoying since /everything/ depends on the base library. > > What is annoying about that? I mean, is it something to do with speed, > file size, portability? There must be something that annoys you. Maybe > it annoys me too, but I don't understand the issue. I can't remember exactly why I ditched Cygwin since it was so long ago. > > MinGW/MSYS is basically the same thing, except without that dependence. > > Is it portable? Maybe that would be even better than Cygwin for some of > the things I do. I think so, as long as you use msys.bat. > By the way, I hate the Cygwin terminal window -- it seems to be the MS > Windows command window with bash running in it. I always use an rxvt > terminal in Cygwin. I use Console ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/ ). It only supports a few shells directly (I though only cmd.exe worked, but apparently the Python interpreter works too), but you can easily have cmd launch an arbitrary shell (e.g. C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /c C:\MinGW\bin\bash.exe --login -i). I think it's portable, but I haven't tested it. From vc.lists at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:43:44 2011 From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:43:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: <4D88EF38.30109@gmail.com> References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D88DD7E.3050103@gmail.com> <4D88EF38.30109@gmail.com> Message-ID: I second Andrew's Console recommendation for use with Cygwin. Open Console2 and select Edit > Settings > Tabs. Add a new tab - say "Cygwin" and for the Shell: I just pointed to the .bat file which usually starts my cygwin shell (C:\cygwin\cygwin-zsh.bat in my case). You should now be able to use Console2 to create new Cygwin session by going to: File > New Tab > Cygwin! I love it! And yes, Console is portable (as in you can use with a flash drive on most Windows installations). - Vee. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Andrew Berg wrote: > On 2011.03.22 01:33 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Andrew Berg wrote: >> >> > I found Cygwin annoying since /everything/ depends on the base library. >> >> What is annoying about that? ?I mean, is it something to do with speed, >> file size, portability? ?There must be something that annoys you. ?Maybe >> it annoys me too, but I don't understand the issue. > I can't remember exactly why I ditched Cygwin since it was so long ago. >> > MinGW/MSYS is basically the same thing, except without that dependence. >> >> Is it portable? ?Maybe that would be even better than Cygwin for some of >> the things I do. > I think so, as long as you use msys.bat. >> By the way, I hate the Cygwin terminal window -- it seems to be the MS >> Windows command window with bash running in it. ?I always use an rxvt >> terminal in Cygwin. > I use Console ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/ ). It only > supports a few shells directly (I though only cmd.exe worked, but > apparently the Python interpreter works too), but you can easily have > cmd launch an arbitrary shell (e.g. C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /c > C:\MinGW\bin\bash.exe --login -i). > I think it's portable, but I haven't tested it. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From vc.lists at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 15:02:38 2011 From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:02:38 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a good shell without a MinGW environment In-Reply-To: References: <4D877984.8050806@gmail.com> <1300725734.3067.20.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D8786F9.6030804@gmail.com> <1300728359.3067.32.camel@sysadmin3a> <4D88DD7E.3050103@gmail.com> <4D88EF38.30109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Or if you are running Cygwin's ssh server, you can just ssh into it using putty (even if you are on the same machine)! - Vee. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Venkat Chandra wrote: > I second Andrew's Console recommendation for use with Cygwin. > > Open Console2 and select Edit > Settings > Tabs. Add a new tab - say > "Cygwin" and for the Shell: I just pointed to the .bat file which > usually starts my cygwin shell (C:\cygwin\cygwin-zsh.bat in my case). > You should now be able to use Console2 to create new Cygwin session by > going to: File > New Tab > Cygwin! > > I love it! And yes, Console is portable (as in you can use with a > flash drive on most Windows installations). > > - Vee. > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Andrew Berg wrote: >> On 2011.03.22 01:33 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Andrew Berg wrote: >>> >>> > I found Cygwin annoying since /everything/ depends on the base library. >>> >>> What is annoying about that? ?I mean, is it something to do with speed, >>> file size, portability? ?There must be something that annoys you. ?Maybe >>> it annoys me too, but I don't understand the issue. >> I can't remember exactly why I ditched Cygwin since it was so long ago. >>> > MinGW/MSYS is basically the same thing, except without that dependence. >>> >>> Is it portable? ?Maybe that would be even better than Cygwin for some of >>> the things I do. >> I think so, as long as you use msys.bat. >>> By the way, I hate the Cygwin terminal window -- it seems to be the MS >>> Windows command window with bash running in it. ?I always use an rxvt >>> terminal in Cygwin. >> I use Console ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/ ). It only >> supports a few shells directly (I though only cmd.exe worked, but >> apparently the Python interpreter works too), but you can easily have >> cmd launch an arbitrary shell (e.g. C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /c >> C:\MinGW\bin\bash.exe --login -i). >> I think it's portable, but I haven't tested it. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > From marc at e-skinner.net Tue Mar 22 15:11:00 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:11:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For sale - new ink jet printer Message-ID: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> I have a brand new - in box, never used or turned on - Epson Stylus C120 Color Ink-Jet. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=epson+c120&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=18100521087148131458&sa=X&ei=8v-ITZDWGYfZgAfFmojPDQ&ved=0CFEQ8wIwBA# I'm looking for $50 - I live in Burnsville. From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Tue Mar 22 23:12:35 2011 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 23:12:35 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Jeremy White from Codewevers @Penguins Unbound Meeting March 26th Message-ID: <4D897333.1050300@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday March 26th at TIES, at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) At this months Penguins Unbound Meeting, March 26th, Jeremy White from Codeweavers will come talk about Wine and Linux. If you are not familiar with Jeremy White you have probably heard of the products his company makes, Crossover and Crossover Games. Products that enable you to run Windows software on your Linux and Mac computers! You can check out his company at http://www.codeweavers.com If you need to see a picture of him, or know his favorite color, http://www.codeweavers.com/about/people/jwhite I will also plan on having at least 30 minutes for questions. Thanks. Hope to see you there. ==>brian. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 I was able to connect to this stream with mplayer on Ubuntu 10.04, here is the command I used: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 I have heard that this url, http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 works with VLC. (Thanks Neal!) From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 01:06:57 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 01:06:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Marc Skinner wrote: > I have a brand new - in box, never used or turned on - Epson Stylus C120 > Color Ink-Jet. > > http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=epson+c120&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=18100521087148131458&sa=X&ei=8v-ITZDWGYfZgAfFmojPDQ&ved=0CFEQ8wIwBA# I was motivated by this ad, so I recapped it above, but I'm writing on a different topic, so I changed the subject line. Looking at the info on the printer, I thought it was pretty attactive in some ways -- very fast, cheap, color, good brand -- but there were a couple of things that I'd really like that I wasn't sure I would get from that printer. Specifically, I want networking, and I also want to know that the printer would work well with my Linux box. Does anyone know a trustworthy site with info about printers that work well with Linux (e.g., have good Linux drivers)? Or has anyone had good experiences using Linux with a relatively cheap networkable printer that they can recommend? Mike From nesius at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 01:21:56 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 01:21:56 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:06 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 22 Mar 2011, Marc Skinner wrote: > > I have a brand new - in box, never used or turned on - Epson Stylus C120 >> Color Ink-Jet. >> >> >> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=epson+c120&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=18100521087148131458&sa=X&ei=8v-ITZDWGYfZgAfFmojPDQ&ved=0CFEQ8wIwBA# >> > > > I was motivated by this ad, so I recapped it above, but I'm writing on a > different topic, so I changed the subject line. > > Looking at the info on the printer, I thought it was pretty attactive in > some ways -- very fast, cheap, color, good brand -- but there were a couple > of things that I'd really like that I wasn't sure I would get from that > printer. Specifically, I want networking, and I also want to know that the > printer would work well with my Linux box. > > Does anyone know a trustworthy site with info about printers that work well > with Linux (e.g., have good Linux drivers)? > > Or has anyone had good experiences using Linux with a relatively cheap > networkable printer that they can recommend? > > For me, printing has felt like "a solved problem" for awhile on Linux. The last time I pointed my Ubuntu box at something, it just worked. Auto detection and the whole nine yards. In fact, printing to that particular printer from Linux was more reliable than printing from Windows. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 01:49:21 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 01:49:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > For me, printing has felt like "a solved problem" for awhile on Linux. > > The last time I pointed my Ubuntu box at something, it just worked. > Auto detection and the whole nine yards. In fact, printing to that > particular printer from Linux was more reliable than printing from > Windows. I guess I had no problem with any of the printers at work and there are at least four etirely different printers there. I guess they all take postscript input, which is easy to deal with. Maybe all printers are postscript these days. So let's say Linux isn't an issue. Then what are some good postscript printers that can do these things: (1) duplex printing (2) color, but it doesn't have to be good color (it's not for photos) (3) networkable (either wired or wireless) (4) as cheap as possible Mike From justin.kremer at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 05:16:29 2011 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:16:29 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <89B6A2FD-DB80-4066-9161-EECDB618218D@gmail.com> On Mar 23, 2011, at 1:49 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > I guess I had no problem with any of the printers at work and there are at least four etirely different printers there. I guess they all take postscript input, which is easy to deal with. Maybe all printers are postscript these days. > > So let's say Linux isn't an issue. Then what are some good postscript printers that can do these things: > > (1) duplex printing > (2) color, but it doesn't have to be good color (it's not for photos) > (3) networkable (either wired or wireless) > (4) as cheap as possible > > Mike This is probably what you're looking for. http://www.openprinting.org/printers I check there before buying a paperweight. - Justin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 07:13:47 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:13:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: Mike Miller cried from the depths of the abyss... > Does anyone know a trustworthy site with info about printers that work well > with Linux (e.g., have good Linux drivers)? You can take a look at all the printers supported by CUPS: http://www.cups.org/ppd.php From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 23 08:06:53 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:06:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <20110323130653.GO3082@styx.iucha.org> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 01:49:21AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > I guess I had no problem with any of the printers at work and there are > at least four etirely different printers there. UofM has reasonably competent system and network admins. > I guess they all take > postscript input, which is easy to deal with. All high-end (workgroup or department) printers grok postscript. > Maybe all printers are > postscript these days. Ha! The printers that are sold for a price of a full ink toner/cartridge and whose 'trial' cartridge is only 25% full do not have a $4 postscript engine. Lexmark, cheap Canons and HP, they still rely on the Windows driver for most of their processing. Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Mar 23 11:11:09 2011 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (tclug1 at whitleymott.net) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:11:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] no archive Message-ID: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> i fell off tclug-list march 11 due to dns snafu. is there anyone, perhaps someone who receives digests, who would be willing to forward me what i've missed? tia, greg From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 23 11:33:53 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:33:53 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <1FD89A53-64E5-4E26-A7D2-35CE543FEB6D@me.com> I could get you an mbox folder of everything from 3/11 to today... If you're using IMAP. On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:11 AM, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: > i fell off tclug-list march 11 due to dns snafu. is there anyone, perhaps someone who receives digests, who would be willing to forward me what i've missed? > tia, > greg > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 11:35:34 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:35:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: <20110323130653.GO3082@styx.iucha.org> References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> <20110323130653.GO3082@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Florin Iucha wrote: > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 01:49:21AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I guess I had no problem with any of the printers at work and there are >> at least four etirely different printers there. > > UofM has reasonably competent system and network admins. Right, but they don't support Linux in my department, so all they gave me were the IP addresses. Is it hard to properly set up the printer on the network? >> I guess they all take postscript input, which is easy to deal with. > > All high-end (workgroup or department) printers grok postscript. > >> Maybe all printers are postscript these days. > > Ha! The printers that are sold for a price of a full ink > toner/cartridge and whose 'trial' cartridge is only 25% full do not have > a $4 postscript engine. Lexmark, cheap Canons and HP, they still rely > on the Windows driver for most of their processing. I should have known those cheap printers couldn't handle postscript! But the open printing and CUPS lists will help a lot (thanks, guys): http://www.openprinting.org/printers http://www.cups.org/ppd.php The thing is, I don't want to spend a lot on a home printer. I could drop both the color and duplex features. If I can print boarding passes and sheet music, that's probably enough (I do most printing at work), and those need neither color nor duplex. Having the printer on the home network would help a lot, though. So maybe I can live without postscript, too. I'm revising my plan: (1) works with Linux (2) networkable (3) less than $150 If it does color and duplex, that's good, but if not, that's OK. I can always get around the duplexing issue by printing every other page and refeeding them (I think it's usually even pages in reverse order, then odd pages in normal order). Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 11:37:15 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:37:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: I like the subject line. Why don't we have an archive on the web? Do we even have a definitive collection of the messages stored somewhere? Mike From ryanjcole at me.com Wed Mar 23 11:39:10 2011 From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:39:10 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <609CD748-04CA-4DA5-9D3A-C74EACEC9EAF@me.com> definitive? No but a quick search found this: http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.tclug On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:37 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > I like the subject line. Why don't we have an archive on the web? Do we even have a definitive collection of the messages stored somewhere? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 23 11:58:03 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:58:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> <20110323130653.GO3082@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20110323165802.GP3082@styx.iucha.org> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:35:34AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote: >> UofM has reasonably competent system and network admins. > > Right, but they don't support Linux in my department, so all they gave me > were the IP addresses. Is it hard to properly set up the printer on the > network? Define 'properly'. If they enabled IPP on a postscript printer that is all you would need, apart from maybe telling you the address 8^) > I should have known those cheap printers couldn't handle postscript! But > the open printing and CUPS lists will help a lot (thanks, guys): > > http://www.openprinting.org/printers > http://www.cups.org/ppd.php > > The thing is, I don't want to spend a lot on a home printer. I could > drop both the color and duplex features. If I can print boarding passes > and sheet music, that's probably enough (I do most printing at work), and > those need neither color nor duplex. Having the printer on the home > network would help a lot, though. So maybe I can live without > postscript, too. I'm revising my plan: > > (1) works with Linux > (2) networkable > (3) less than $150 > > If it does color and duplex, that's good, but if not, that's OK. I can > always get around the duplexing issue by printing every other page and > refeeding them (I think it's usually even pages in reverse order, then > odd pages in normal order). Brother and Samsung have good reputations. Be careful with re-feeding: some paper gets visibly 'modified' when passing through a laser printer and when you feed it the second time it jams. Look for an HP LaserJet 5 or 6 that could be had for $50, and find a network server on eBay (another 25-30) and you should be all set. But it will print a page every other minute 8^) If you are in a hurry, get a Brother or a mid-level HP laser (skip the cheapest ones). Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jolexa at jolexa.net Wed Mar 23 12:07:03 2011 From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:07:03 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <18fe67cb05a17b0e2433e76dd783b9da@webmail.jolexa.net> On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:37:15 -0500 (CDT), Mike Miller wrote: > I like the subject line. Why don't we have an archive on the web? > Do we even have a definitive collection of the messages stored > somewhere? You mean this: http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/2011-March/thread.html ? -Jeremy > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From chrome at real-time.com Wed Mar 23 12:32:11 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 12:32:11 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: ; from mbmiller+l@gmail.com on Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:35:34AM -0500 References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> <20110323130653.GO3082@styx.iucha.org> Message-ID: <20110323123211.G19693@real-time.com> I use a printer exceedingly rarely (I lived without one for well over 10 years I think). So I got a laser printer because I wouldn't have to worry about the ink cartridges drying out. I ended up with an HP Laserjet P1006; which is USB-attached and works ok. Did take a bit of fiddling to get the correct drivers installed, and it requires a firmware upload when first turned on (one day in my copious spare time I'll figure out udev and how to automatically upload firmware); but it works pretty well. Only cost $100 on sale after Christmas one year. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From marc at e-skinner.net Wed Mar 23 13:43:26 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:43:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: <20110323123211.G19693@real-time.com> References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> <20110323130653.GO3082@styx.iucha.org> <20110323123211.G19693@real-time.com> Message-ID: <4D8A3F4E.6040702@e-skinner.net> I have had great luck with the Dell 2330dn - networked enabled, great B/W laser printer, with duplex and networking for under $250. Very fast as well. On 03/23/2011 12:32 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I use a printer exceedingly rarely (I lived without one for well over 10 > years I think). So I got a laser printer because I wouldn't have to worry > about the ink cartridges drying out. > > I ended up with an HP Laserjet P1006; which is USB-attached and works ok. > Did take a bit of fiddling to get the correct drivers installed, and it > requires a firmware upload when first turned on (one day in my copious spare > time I'll figure out udev and how to automatically upload firmware); but it > works pretty well. Only cost $100 on sale after Christmas one year. > From marc at e-skinner.net Wed Mar 23 15:08:45 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:08:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: 3M DDS-120 tapes Message-ID: <4D8A534D.4020205@e-skinner.net> Ok, I'm cleaning out my closet. Just found a box of brand new 3M/Imation DDS-120 tapes. Quantity 9 tapes. Office Depot is selling them for $11 each. I'll take $25 for the lot of them - if there is any tape users out there :) http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/346790/Imation-4mm-DDS-120-Data-Tape/ From marc at e-skinner.net Wed Mar 23 15:34:27 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:34:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: USB Scanner Message-ID: <4D8A5953.3030107@e-skinner.net> Acer S2W 3300U Works with XSANE! $10 From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 15:47:41 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:47:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: <609CD748-04CA-4DA5-9D3A-C74EACEC9EAF@me.com> References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> <609CD748-04CA-4DA5-9D3A-C74EACEC9EAF@me.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Ryan Coleman wrote: > definitive? No but a quick search found this: > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.tclug By "definitive" I'm referring to how the archive is created. If the mail server that sends the messages out also stores copies, that's best. Second best would be to have some account receive every message and store them. Third would be some guy who thinks he didn't delete any. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 15:54:10 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:54:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: <18fe67cb05a17b0e2433e76dd783b9da@webmail.jolexa.net> References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> <18fe67cb05a17b0e2433e76dd783b9da@webmail.jolexa.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Jeremy Olexa wrote: > On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:37:15 -0500 (CDT), Mike Miller wrote: > >> I like the subject line. Why don't we have an archive on the web? Do >> we even have a definitive collection of the messages stored somewhere? > > You mean this: > http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/2011-March/thread.html ? Right. That is maintained by the list software, right? This looks like a good starting place: http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/ It isn't searchable from that page, but Google is indexing it, so I guess we can search like this: http://www.google.com/search?q=random+thing+site%3Aarchives.mn-linux.org Nice. Thanks. MIke From marc at e-skinner.net Wed Mar 23 16:00:32 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:00:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: HP DDS-3 Tapes Message-ID: <4D8A5F70.5020100@e-skinner.net> Brand new - 5 part number C5708A - DDS-3 24gb tapes Brand new - 1 part number C5709A - cleaning tape These seem to be going for about $10 as well. I'll take $25 for the lot! Again - looking for TAPE lovers :) From florin at iucha.net Wed Mar 23 16:19:32 2011 From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:19:32 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: HP DDS-3 Tapes In-Reply-To: <4D8A5F70.5020100@e-skinner.net> References: <4D8A5F70.5020100@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: <20110323211932.GQ3082@styx.iucha.org> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 04:00:32PM -0500, Marc Skinner wrote: > Brand new - 5 part number C5708A - DDS-3 24gb tapes > Brand new - 1 part number C5709A - cleaning tape > > These seem to be going for about $10 as well. I am holding out for the DAT-160 box 8^) Cheers, florin -- Bruce Schneier expects the Spanish Inquisition. http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/fact/163 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Wed Mar 23 16:19:08 2011 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:19:08 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: Intel CPU - dual core Message-ID: <4D8A63CC.1090303@e-skinner.net> SLA93 1.6ghz dual core Pentium e2140. http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=29738 Worked great for a year, replaced it with a quad core. Never overclocked, ran 24x7 in a utilitarian desktop (HP Pavilion) doing MP3 ripping, bit-torrent downloads, etc. Looking for $30 - CPU only. Thanks! From chrome at real-time.com Wed Mar 23 16:21:57 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:21:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: ; from mbmiller+l@gmail.com on Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 03:54:10PM -0500 References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> <18fe67cb05a17b0e2433e76dd783b9da@webmail.jolexa.net> Message-ID: <20110323162157.I19693@real-time.com> On 03/23 03:54 , Mike Miller wrote: > Right. That is maintained by the list software, right? This looks like a > good starting place: > > http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/ > > It isn't searchable from that page, but Google is indexing it, so I guess > we can search like this: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=random+thing+site%3Aarchives.mn-linux.org That's the way to go. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From nesius at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:57:14 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:57:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] no archive In-Reply-To: <20110323162157.I19693@real-time.com> References: <201103231611.p2NGB9u1026239@okra.fo4.net> <18fe67cb05a17b0e2433e76dd783b9da@webmail.jolexa.net> <20110323162157.I19693@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom < chrome at real-time.com> wrote: > On 03/23 03:54 , Mike Miller wrote: > > Right. That is maintained by the list software, right? This looks like > a > > good starting place: > > > > http://archives.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/ > > > > It isn't searchable from that page, but Google is indexing it, so I guess > > we can search like this: > > > > http://www.google.com/search?q=random+thing+site%3Aarchives.mn-linux.org > > > That's the way to go. > > Why not create a google group, subscribe the archiving address to the list, and make it visible to the general public? Presto - history you can browse and search. (I'm pretty sure, but not 100% sure, google group email archives are searchable. It's hard to imagine them not being searchable.) I'm just spit-balling. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhawley at hissingdragon.net Wed Mar 23 21:34:25 2011 From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 21:34:25 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness Message-ID: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> Can't figure out what's up with screen on one of my machines. jhawley at vulpix:~$ screen -S 1 ... and I get a blank screen with "New screen ..." at bottom for a few seconds. Screen appears to be running, but none of the Ctrl commands work. If I log in as root, it works fine. This is Ubuntu 10.4. What might be up? "screen" is such a generic name, its hard to google for. :/ ~jh From vc.lists at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 22:00:13 2011 From: vc.lists at gmail.com (Venkat Chandra) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:00:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> Message-ID: Perhaps your .screenrc got corrupted somehow? - Vee On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, John Hawley wrote: > Can't figure out what's up with screen on one of my machines. > > jhawley at vulpix:~$ screen -S 1 ? ... and I get a blank screen with "New > screen ..." at bottom for a few seconds. ?Screen appears to be running, but > none of the Ctrl commands work. > > If I log in as root, it works fine. ?This is Ubuntu 10.4. > > What might be up? ?"screen" is such a generic name, its hard to google for. > :/ > > ~jh > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nesius at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 23:15:42 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 23:15:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, John Hawley wrote: > Can't figure out what's up with screen on one of my machines. > > jhawley at vulpix:~$ screen -S 1 ... and I get a blank screen with "New > screen ..." at bottom for a few seconds. Screen appears to be running, but > none of the Ctrl commands work. > > If I log in as root, it works fine. This is Ubuntu 10.4. > > What might be up? "screen" is such a generic name, its hard to google for. > :/ > > I'm wondering if your tty/terminal settings are different from root's. Are root and your non-root user running the same screen? (Probably, but I'd check anyway.) Just brainstorming. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhawley at hissingdragon.net Thu Mar 24 09:08:45 2011 From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:08:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> Message-ID: <4D8B506D.2010601@hissingdragon.net> There is no ~/.screenrc. Using the same /etc/screenrc as the root account uses. ~jh On 03/23/2011 10:00 PM, Venkat Chandra wrote: > Perhaps your .screenrc got corrupted somehow? > > - Vee > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, John Hawley wrote: >> Can't figure out what's up with screen on one of my machines. >> >> jhawley at vulpix:~$ screen -S 1 ... and I get a blank screen with "New >> screen ..." at bottom for a few seconds. Screen appears to be running, but >> none of the Ctrl commands work. >> >> If I log in as root, it works fine. This is Ubuntu 10.4. >> >> What might be up? "screen" is such a generic name, its hard to google for. >> :/ >> >> ~jh >> _______________________________________________ > From jhawley at hissingdragon.net Thu Mar 24 09:13:06 2011 From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:13:06 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> Message-ID: <4D8B5172.7090501@hissingdragon.net> On 03/23/2011 11:15 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, John Hawley > > wrote: > > Can't figure out what's up with screen on one of my machines. > > jhawley at vulpix:~$ screen -S 1 ... and I get a blank screen with > "New screen ..." at bottom for a few seconds. Screen appears to > be running, but none of the Ctrl commands work. > > If I log in as root, it works fine. This is Ubuntu 10.4. > > What might be up? "screen" is such a generic name, its hard to > google for. :/ > > > I'm wondering if your tty/terminal settings are different from root's. > > Are root and your non-root user running the same screen? (Probably, > but I'd check anyway.) > > Just brainstorming. > > -Rob Ok, it is something to do with settings in my ~/.bashrc. If I temporarily remove that file and start a new terminal, everythings fine with screen. I'll have to dissect it to see what is conflicting. ~jh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sloncho at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:12:26 2011 From: sloncho at gmail.com (Sunny) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:12:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: USB Scanner In-Reply-To: <4D8A5953.3030107@e-skinner.net> References: <4D8A5953.3030107@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: Do you still have it? On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Marc Skinner wrote: > Acer S2W 3300U > > Works with XSANE! > > $10 > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. From nesius at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 19:37:15 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:37:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: <4D8B5172.7090501@hissingdragon.net> References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> <4D8B5172.7090501@hissingdragon.net> Message-ID: <998D6F0C-9BC7-4E75-89EE-D23B068B717F@gmail.com> On Mar 24, 2011, at 9:13 AM, John Hawley wrote: > On 03/23/2011 11:15 PM, Robert Nesius wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 9:34 PM, John Hawley wrote: >> Can't figure out what's up with screen on one of my machines. >> >> jhawley at vulpix:~$ screen -S 1 ... and I get a blank screen with "New screen ..." at bottom for a few seconds. Screen appears to be running, but none of the Ctrl commands work. >> >> If I log in as root, it works fine. This is Ubuntu 10.4. >> >> What might be up? "screen" is such a generic name, its hard to google for. :/ >> >> >> I'm wondering if your tty/terminal settings are different from root's. >> >> Are root and your non-root user running the same screen? (Probably, but I'd check anyway.) >> >> Just brainstorming. >> >> -Rob > > Ok, it is something to do with settings in my ~/.bashrc. If I temporarily remove that file and start a new terminal, everythings fine with screen. I'll have to dissect it to see what is conflicting. > > ~jh > Try comparing your environments with and without your .bashrc. Dump stty and env to files and diff them. And, diss your bashrc with root's for ideas too. Glad you got it working at least. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 20:05:08 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:05:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: <998D6F0C-9BC7-4E75-89EE-D23B068B717F@gmail.com> References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> <4D8B5172.7090501@hissingdragon.net> <998D6F0C-9BC7-4E75-89EE-D23B068B717F@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > And, diss your bashrc with root's for ideas too. "diss" or "diff"? Mike From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 20:25:00 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:25:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> <4D8B5172.7090501@hissingdragon.net> <998D6F0C-9BC7-4E75-89EE-D23B068B717F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Do I sense a new RFP? GNU diss: insult files line by line On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > >> And, diss your bashrc with root's for ideas too. > > > "diss" or "diff"? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From nesius at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 21:48:31 2011 From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 21:48:31 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> <4D8B5172.7090501@hissingdragon.net> <998D6F0C-9BC7-4E75-89EE-D23B068B717F@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > Do I sense a new RFP? > > GNU diss: insult files line by line > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > > > >> And, diss your bashrc with root's for ideas too. > > > > > > "diss" or "diff"? > > > > Mike > "Your file's so different it must have been adopted." ;-) Actually, that was a "damn you auto-correct" moment. :) Thanks, iPhone. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 22:17:47 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:17:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] gnu screen weirdness In-Reply-To: References: <4D8AADB1.9070304@hissingdragon.net> <4D8B5172.7090501@hissingdragon.net> <998D6F0C-9BC7-4E75-89EE-D23B068B717F@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > >> Do I sense a new RFP? >> >> GNU diss: insult files line by line >> >> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Robert Nesius wrote: >>> >>>> And, diss your bashrc with root's for ideas too. >>> >>> >>> "diss" or "diff"? >>> >>> Mike >> > > "Your file's so different it must have been adopted." ;-) > > Actually, that was a "damn you auto-correct" moment. :) Thanks, iPhone. I thought maybe if you diss the file long enough and hard enough it will confess to screwing up the terminal. But seriously, I didn't know for sure that there wasn't a "diss" command! Mike From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com Thu Mar 24 22:51:44 2011 From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 22:51:44 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Jeremy White from Codewevers @Penguins Unbound Meeting March 26th Message-ID: <4D8C1150.2010809@Goecke-Dolan.com> This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be Saturday March 26th at TIES, at 1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108 from 10:00am to 12:00pm (See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more info.) At this months Penguins Unbound Meeting, March 26th, Jeremy White from Codeweavers will come talk about Wine and Linux. If you are not familiar with Jeremy White you have probably heard of the products his company makes, Crossover and Crossover Games. Products that enable you to run Windows software on your Linux and Mac computers! You can check out his company at http://www.codeweavers.com If you need to see a picture of him, or know his favorite color, http://www.codeweavers.com/about/people/jwhite I will also plan on having at least 30 minutes for questions. Thanks. Hope to see you there. ==>brian. *** STREAMING *** If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting. mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 I was able to connect to this stream with mplayer on Ubuntu 10.04, here is the command I used: mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 I have heard that this url, http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800 works with VLC. (Thanks Neal!) From kc0iog at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 09:14:17 2011 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:14:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Disposal of raised floor tiles Message-ID: I am currently involved in a project that involves replacing raised floor tiles. We're removing tiles that are worn out or specially cut for previous implementations. The question has been raised on how exactly we dispose of these things. Does anyone have experience in replacing old floor tiles? Are there recycling centers that take these or possibly scrap dealers who pay money for these things? Getting rid of them responsibly is our top priority, if someone pays money for them that's bonus. Thanks, Brian From samael.anon at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 18:00:13 2011 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:00:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Disposal of raised floor tiles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: they can go strait to the dump. there is no asbestos in them. just regular construction debris. On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Brian Wall wrote: > I am currently involved in a project that involves replacing raised > floor tiles. We're removing tiles that are worn out or specially cut > for previous implementations. The question has been raised on how > exactly we dispose of these things. Does anyone have experience in > replacing old floor tiles? Are there recycling centers that take > these or possibly scrap dealers who pay money for these things? > > Getting rid of them responsibly is our top priority, if someone pays > money for them that's bonus. > > Thanks, > Brian > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhawley at hissingdragon.net Mon Mar 28 10:40:55 2011 From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:40:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Disposal of raised floor tiles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D90AC07.7020908@hissingdragon.net> Are they made from aluminum? I have a friend who has a hobby smelting furnace. He'd take some if they were a freebee. On 03/26/2011 06:00 PM, Samael wrote: > they can go strait to the dump. there is no asbestos in them. just > regular construction debris. > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Brian Wall > wrote: > > I am currently involved in a project that involves replacing raised > floor tiles. We're removing tiles that are worn out or specially cut > for previous implementations. The question has been raised on how > exactly we dispose of these things. Does anyone have experience in > replacing old floor tiles? Are there recycling centers that take > these or possibly scrap dealers who pay money for these things? > > Getting rid of them responsibly is our top priority, if someone pays > money for them that's bonus. > > Thanks, > Brian > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 15:04:23 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:04:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A couple quick Python questions Message-ID: <4D923B47.1090708@gmail.com> First, what function should I use for easily executing Python scripts (during an interactive session)? Currently, I use subprocess.Popen(['python', 'script.py', 'arg1', 'arg2', 'argn'']), but it's a bit of a pain to type out a tuple. Second, is there any way to have positional arguments listed before optional ones using argparse? Once I have larger chunks of code, I'll start asking for help on the Python list (I promise). From cncole at earthlink.net Tue Mar 29 15:34:47 2011 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:34:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable and WiFi connection issues.. not OS specific Message-ID: Have searched Google, Motorola, and Linksys, but don't find answers for these 4 questions... Four questions: 1) Is there a reason for a DOCSIS 1.1 modem to have some dropout and speed anomalies when connected to Charter? 2) Is a DOCSIS 2.0 modem likely to cure those anomalies? Is DOCSIS the only relevant spec? 3) Download rate by WiFi in a clear 54MHz G channel with high S/N is only about half the rate of a wired LAN connection.. why? How can I detect specific problem(s)? 4) Can I fix my WiFi download rate to be nearly the same as wired LAN rate? Info: I have only "Internet Express" basis service from Charter. As of Jan 1 or so, Charter increased download speeds. They said I needed a modem upgrade and that Linksys BEFCMU10 V1, 2, & 3 modems are "blacklisted", but would not identify what spec I did not meet, nor what spec I needed. Just wanted me to buy from them. I bought my own used. I had some mysteries, so I "upgraded" from a DOCSIS 1.1 modem to a DOCSIS 2.0 model. Supposedly, both specs are compatible with Charter, and each spec has a large "headroom" from its maximum download or upload rate (ie, download is about 1/3 max rate). Using my old DOCSIS 1.1 modem, I had 12.4 mbps download speed by wired LAN, but I had very infrequent unexplained interruptions (2-3 weekly) of my VOIP phone connection that I had not experienced before the Charter speed increase. When asked at escalated tech support levels, Charter's USA-based tech support says "we're not trained to answer specification questions, nor to do the Cisco supported upgrade of a Linksys v3 modem to DOCSIS 2.0". Apparently, they are only monkeys trained to make settings on the brands and models they sell. Tier 1 or non-USA help is not that good. With a DOCSIS 2.0 modem, download speed by wired LAN is 15.8mbps. Have not experienced VOIP dropouts, but those are rare and hasn't been a week yet. Only get approx 1/2 download speed via WiFi as from wired LAN connection per Charter's speed test at http://spt01rochmn.roch.mn.charter.com/ most helpful Google link was: How to Fix your Slow Internet Connection has test suggestions http://www.labnol.org/internet/fix-slow-internet-connection/13619/ Test #3. To ensure that none of the viruses or spyware programs are responsible for your slow Internet, open command prompt and run the following command: netstat -b -f 5 ( no -f option in any variant of netstat I can locate ) See no excesses with netstat -b What tool might show an activity or overhead in my WiFi link? Chuck From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 15:50:49 2011 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:50:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A couple quick Python questions In-Reply-To: <4D923B47.1090708@gmail.com> References: <4D923B47.1090708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Andrew Berg wrote: > First, what function should I use for easily executing Python scripts > (during an interactive session)? Currently, I use > subprocess.Popen(['python', 'script.py', 'arg1', 'arg2', 'argn'']), but > it's a bit of a pain to type out a tuple. One way is to use 'import', like so: anthony at sudbury:~$ cat test.py #!/usr/bin/env python print "foo" anthony at sudbury:~$ python Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 16 2010, 13:57:41) [GCC 4.4.3] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import test foo >>> anthony at sudbury:~$ > Second, is there any way to have positional arguments listed before > optional ones using argparse? I'm pretty sure there is, but I'd have to look it up, and I'm feeling equally lazy atm. :P - Tony Yarusso From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 16:18:15 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:18:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A couple quick Python questions In-Reply-To: References: <4D923B47.1090708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D924C97.30608@gmail.com> On 2011.03.29 03:50 PM, Tony Yarusso wrote: > One way is to use 'import', like so: That doesn't work well since I can't pass arguments to the script. From mailinglists at soul-dev.com Tue Mar 29 16:39:47 2011 From: mailinglists at soul-dev.com (Mr. MailingLists) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:39:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable and WiFi connection issues.. not OS specific In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D9251A3.8020306@soul-dev.com> Hello Chuck, On 3/29/2011 3:34 PM, Chuck Cole wrote: > Have searched Google, Motorola, and Linksys, but don't find answers for > these 4 questions... > > Four questions: > > 1) Is there a reason for a DOCSIS 1.1 modem to have some dropout and speed > anomalies when connected to Charter? Most likely hardware limitations. It is fairly easy to run out of memory/cpu time when you have a bunch of connections open. using torrents are a great way of saturating, try downloading a popular torrent with 30 download slots, then try 3000. You modem needs to keep track of all the dynamic port forwards (NAT). Keep an eye on when the slowdowns and dropouts occur, if it is fairly random, it *may* be your modem, if it is always between 6PM - 10PM, it probably means your local hub (cable modem termination system) probably does not have enough provisioned bandwidth (Charter issue). > 2) Is a DOCSIS 2.0 modem likely to cure those anomalies? Is DOCSIS the only > relevant spec? DOCSIS is a specification for providing IP over CATV lines. So yes, if you are using a traditional cable provider (such as Charter). If you get a beefier modem this may alleviate the issues you are noticing. I haven't read the spec. so I really couldn't tell you the differences between the revisions. > 3) Download rate by WiFi in a clear 54MHz G channel with high S/N is only > about half the rate of a wired LAN connection.. why? > You may be confusing frequency with bandwidth. The Wireless G specification provides maximum of 54Mbps, or 6.75MBps, a titch over half of a standard 100Mbps port. > 4) Can I fix my WiFi download rate to be nearly the same as wired LAN rate? Look at the Wireless N specification and devices. They provide ~300Mbps with a adequate wireless N client access card. I may have happened to read the question wrong also, so I will answer the alternate (Can you achieve the same /internet/ speed with WiFi and wired). If you receive ~15Mbps from Charter but you only see 7.5 via WiFi you are most likely on a busy WiFi channel. Try different channels, or perform a site survey and make sure to not choose a neighbors channel. > > > Info: > > I have only "Internet Express" basis service from Charter. As of Jan 1 or > so, Charter increased download speeds. They said I needed a modem upgrade > and that Linksys BEFCMU10 V1, 2, & 3 modems are "blacklisted", but would not > identify what spec I did not meet, nor what spec I needed. Just wanted me > to buy from them. I bought my own used. I had some mysteries, so I > "upgraded" from a DOCSIS 1.1 modem to a DOCSIS 2.0 model. Supposedly, both > specs are compatible with Charter, and each spec has a large "headroom" from > its maximum download or upload rate (ie, download is about 1/3 max rate). > > Using my old DOCSIS 1.1 modem, I had 12.4 mbps download speed by wired LAN, > but I had very infrequent unexplained interruptions (2-3 weekly) of my VOIP > phone connection that I had not experienced before the Charter speed > increase. > > When asked at escalated tech support levels, Charter's USA-based tech > support says "we're not trained to answer specification questions, nor to do > the Cisco supported upgrade of a Linksys v3 modem to DOCSIS 2.0". > Apparently, they are only monkeys trained to make settings on the brands and > models they sell. Tier 1 or non-USA help is not that good. > > With a DOCSIS 2.0 modem, download speed by wired LAN is 15.8mbps. Have not > experienced VOIP dropouts, but those are rare and hasn't been a week yet. > > > > Only get approx 1/2 download speed via WiFi as from wired LAN connection per > Charter's speed test at > > http://spt01rochmn.roch.mn.charter.com/ > > most helpful Google link was: > > How to Fix your Slow Internet Connection > > has test suggestions > > http://www.labnol.org/internet/fix-slow-internet-connection/13619/ > > > > Test #3. To ensure that none of the viruses or spyware programs are > responsible for your slow Internet, open command prompt and run the > following command: > > netstat -b -f 5 > > ( no -f option in any variant of netstat I can locate ) > > > > See no excesses with netstat -b What tool might show an activity or > overhead in my WiFi link? > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tonyyarusso at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 17:21:42 2011 From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:21:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A couple quick Python questions In-Reply-To: <4D924C97.30608@gmail.com> References: <4D923B47.1090708@gmail.com> <4D924C97.30608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, you could make it act like an actual module, where you import it and then call it with the arguments. From sraun at fireopal.org Tue Mar 29 17:51:09 2011 From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:51:09 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Mail processing suggestion Message-ID: <20110329225109.GB23464@fireopal.org> I'm currently using procmail for splitting my mail up before reading it in mutt. I don't want to killfile some senders, but I would like to mark their e-mails as read before I start reading the relevant list mail. Any suggestions for search terms or methods to accomplish this? -- Scott Raun sraun at fireopal.org From cncole at earthlink.net Tue Mar 29 18:50:17 2011 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:50:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Cable and WiFi connection issues.. not OS specific In-Reply-To: <4D9251A3.8020306@soul-dev.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Mr. MailingLists Thanks, but... > > Hello Chuck, > > On 3/29/2011 3:34 PM, Chuck Cole wrote: > > Have searched Google, Motorola, and Linksys, but don't find answers for > > these 4 questions... > > > > Four questions: > > > > 1) Is there a reason for a DOCSIS 1.1 modem to have some > dropout and speed anomalies when connected to Charter? > Most likely hardware limitations. It is fairly easy to run out of > memory/cpu time when you have a bunch of connections open. Not the case. Applies to simplest single connection and unloaded fast enough hardware. > Keep an eye on when the slowdowns and dropouts occur, if it is fairly > random, it *may* be your modem, if it is always between 6PM - 10PM, it > probably means your local hub (cable modem termination system) probably > does not have enough provisioned bandwidth (Charter issue). Not the case. Testing 2am-4am with my system unloaded. > > 2) Is a DOCSIS 2.0 modem likely to cure those anomalies? Is > DOCSIS the only > > relevant spec? > DOCSIS is a specification for providing IP over CATV lines. So yes, if > you are using a traditional cable provider (such as Charter). If you get > a beefier modem this may alleviate the issues you are noticing. I > haven't read the spec. so I really couldn't tell you the differences > between the revisions. Both specs are stated compatible. All rates well within both specs. No problem within the main spec criteria, so "beefier" does not seem to apply at all. How can you presume any reason if you have no knowledge of the specs and don't state a possible cause? > > 3) Download rate by WiFi in a clear 54MHz G channel with high > S/N is only > > about half the rate of a wired LAN connection.. why? > > > You may be confusing frequency with bandwidth. The Wireless G > specification provides maximum of 54Mbps, or 6.75MBps, a titch over half > of a standard 100Mbps port. Don't think so. See below.. > > 4) Can I fix my WiFi download rate to be nearly the same as > wired LAN rate? > Look at the Wireless N specification and devices. They provide ~300Mbps > with a adequate wireless N client access card. > > I may have happened to read the question wrong also, so I will answer > the alternate (Can you achieve the same /internet/ speed with WiFi and > wired). That *IS* the question. > > If you receive ~15Mbps from Charter but you only see 7.5 via WiFi you > are most likely on a busy WiFi channel. Try different channels, or > perform a site survey and make sure to not choose a neighbors channel. Data given above stated "clear channel with high S/N" Are you saying that I should get the same ~15Mbps on WiFi as LAN per Charter's speed test? I think I should, unless there's some detectable overhead. that I have not been able to identify or detect. Chuck From ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 21:44:27 2011 From: ronsmailbox5 at gmail.com (r j) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:44:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Python questions (Andrew Berg) Message-ID: Andrew : If your running version 2,7 or later you can. >>> import argparse >>> dir(argparse) ['Action', 'ArgumentDefaultsHelpFormatter', 'ArgumentError', 'ArgumentParser', ' ArgumentTypeError', 'FileType', 'HelpFormatter', 'Namespace', 'ONE_OR_MORE', 'OP TIONAL', 'PARSER', 'REMAINDER', 'RawDescriptionHelpFormatter', 'RawTextHelpForma tter', 'SUPPRESS', 'ZERO_OR_MORE', '_', '_ActionsContainer', '_AppendAction', '_ AppendConstAction', '_ArgumentGroup', '_AttributeHolder', '_CountAction', '_Help Action', '_MutuallyExclusiveGroup', '_StoreAction', '_StoreConstAction', '_Store FalseAction', '_StoreTrueAction', '_SubParsersAction', '_UNRECOGNIZED_ARGS_ATTR' , '_VersionAction', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__cached__', '__doc__', '__file_ _', '__name__', '__package__', '__version__', '_callable', '_copy', '_ensure_val ue', '_get_action_name', '_os', '_re', '_sys', '_textwrap', 'ngettext'] >>> help(argparse) prints out the help library. There are standard documentation and examples for argparse in the python standard Libaray here http://docs.python.org/dev/library/argparse.html Learning the standard library is essential to well rounded Python knowledge. Good luck with your Python scripts! ,RJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 09:49:46 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:49:46 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Python questions (Andrew Berg) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D93430A.2060005@gmail.com> On 2011.03.29 09:44 PM, r j wrote: > >>> help(argparse) > prints out the help library. The output it gives is over my head right now. > There are standard documentation and examples for argparse in the > python standard Libaray > here http://docs.python.org/dev/library/argparse.html That's been my documentation so far. I've looked through it and I can't find an option that controls order. I'm mainly concerned with how they're listed in a help message since I think order doesn't actually matter (or I can at least group them to make them get parsed in the order I want). From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Mar 30 11:59:17 2011 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (tclug1 at whitleymott.net) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:59:17 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? Message-ID: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is beyond the device? From mjb at umn.edu Wed Mar 30 12:06:36 2011 From: mjb at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:06:36 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <4D93631C.7030605@umn.edu> On 3/30/2011 11:59 AM, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: > are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is beyond the device? > _______________________________________________ You mean this kind? (Futurama) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaHUpWuqNHY +++++++++++++++++ Michael Berkowski Minitex / MnLINK Linux Systems Administrator and Programmer University of Minnesota mjb at umn.edu PGP Public key: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~berk0081/pgp/pubkey.asc +++++++++++++++++ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:24:26 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:24:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: > are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is beyond > the device? What does that mean? Would it be for people who can't focus their eyes properly? Mike From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:25:23 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:25:23 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <4D936783.4040000@gmail.com> On 3/30/2011 11:59 AM, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: > are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is beyond the device? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list Like a mini-HAL9000? From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Mar 30 12:28:28 2011 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:28:28 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: > are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is beyond > the device? As an enthusiast photographer, I have NO IDEA what that means. So I asked some actual professional photographers, and they have no idea what that means, either. -Yaron -- From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Wed Mar 30 13:27:26 2011 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (Ed C.) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:27:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <4D93760E.8010809@sysmatrix.net> Yaron wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: > >> are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is >> beyond the device? > > As an enthusiast photographer, I have NO IDEA what that means. > > So I asked some actual professional photographers, and they have no idea > what that means, either. > > > -Yaron Maybe this is just about optical zoom as opposed to digital zoom, where the focus ring is "outside" the main camera body. The focus itself has to be internal because its on the retina, film, or array of charge-coupled devices. Otherwise it means there's app for turning your smart phone into a burning lens. Ed, tclug newbie. From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 13:36:05 2011 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:36:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <4D937815.7080803@gmail.com> On 3/30/2011 11:59 AM, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: > are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is beyond the device? Curious, I did a google search for "handheld devices focal point". The first result cam up with an article titled "Janitorial Quality Improvement". From jucziz6 at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 13:41:28 2011 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:41:28 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company Message-ID: Wondering if anyone knows of any consulting companies that work with Redhat Linux. Thanks From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 13:54:39 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:54:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: <4D93760E.8010809@sysmatrix.net> References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> <4D93760E.8010809@sysmatrix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Ed C. wrote: > Otherwise it means there's app for turning your smart phone into a > burning lens. I like that idea. This makes me wonder -- do any smart phones have built-in laser pointers? I could use that now and then. Of course you'd want it to be definitively inactivated most of the time or "eye-phone" could earn a very negative connotation. Mike From chrome at real-time.com Wed Mar 30 14:04:57 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:04:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: ; from jucziz6@gmail.com on Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 01:41:28PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20110330140457.D29943@real-time.com> On 03/30 01:41 , James wrote: > Wondering if anyone knows of any consulting companies that work with > Redhat Linux. Real Time Enterprises has been a Linux shop for a decade and a half; working with everything back to Red Hat v4 (and probably older than that... when I started here, v6 was the current version but there were still plenty of v5 boxes and I think I touched a v4 box or two). Note that's not Red Hat Enterprise Linux; just plain Red Hat Linux. 1990s vintage stuff. I've taught linux systems administration with several different versions of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. These days we mostly use Debian and Ubuntu; but Linux is Linux and we here have all used Red Hat systems for a very long time. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From jjensen at apache.org Wed Mar 30 14:07:14 2011 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:07:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What kind of "work with" are you looking for? On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:41 PM, James wrote: > Wondering if anyone knows of any consulting companies that work with > Redhat Linux. > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > From jucziz6 at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:18:59 2011 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:18:59 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Because this shop has no one thats worked with Linux in a business the type of work with is a seasoned professional that can review the environment and start getting the OS's in line with stability and maintainablility. On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > What kind of "work with" are you looking for? > > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:41 PM, James wrote: >> Wondering if anyone knows of any consulting companies that work with >> Redhat Linux. >> >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From wdtj at yahoo.com Wed Mar 30 14:36:57 2011 From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <145209.84551.qm@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I think what they (as well as I) are asking, is, are you looking for someone who is a progammer or an administrator. I think what your hinting at is an administrator, right? --- Wayne Johnson, | There are two kinds of people: Those 3943 Penn Ave. N. | who say to God, "Thy will be done," Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, (612) 522-7003 | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis ________________________________ From: James To: TCLUG Mailing List Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 2:18:59 PM Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Consultant company Because this shop has no one thats worked with Linux in a business the type of work with is a seasoned professional that can review the environment and start getting the OS's in line with stability and maintainablility. On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > What kind of "work with" are you looking for? > > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:41 PM, James wrote: >> Wondering if anyone knows of any consulting companies that work with >> Redhat Linux. >> >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik.mitchell at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:38:55 2011 From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:38:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes. I know of one. On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:41 PM, James wrote: > Wondering if anyone knows of any consulting companies that work with > Redhat Linux. > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Erik K. Mitchell -- Web Developer erik.mitchell at gmail.com erik at ekmitchell.com http://ekmitchell.com/ From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Wed Mar 30 14:45:30 2011 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (Ed C.) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:45:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D93885A.6070500@sysmatrix.net> > Wondering if anyone knows of any consulting companies that work with > Redhat Linux. > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Red Hat is listed here: http://www.progent.com/minnesota-unix-linux-remote-technical-support.htm From eminmn at sysmatrix.net Wed Mar 30 15:19:14 2011 From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (Ed C.) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:19:14 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> <4D93760E.8010809@sysmatrix.net> Message-ID: <4D939042.7020600@sysmatrix.net> Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Ed C. wrote: > >> Otherwise it means there's app for turning your smart phone into a >> burning lens. > > I like that idea. This makes me wonder -- do any smart phones have > built-in laser pointers? I could use that now and then. Of course > you'd want it to be definitively inactivated most of the time or > "eye-phone" could earn a very negative connotation. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Apparently they have had, at least experimentally. Whether it was visible light for pointing at paper or an activating beam for pointing at photodiodes or photoresistors isn't clear: http://hci.rwth-aachen.de/materials/publications/ballagas2005d.pdf Ed From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 16:17:17 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:17:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: <4D939042.7020600@sysmatrix.net> References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> <4D93760E.8010809@sysmatrix.net> <4D939042.7020600@sysmatrix.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Ed C. wrote: > Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Ed C. wrote: >> >>> Otherwise it means there's app for turning your smart phone into a >>> burning lens. >> >> I like that idea. This makes me wonder -- do any smart phones have >> built-in laser pointers? I could use that now and then. Of course >> you'd want it to be definitively inactivated most of the time or >> "eye-phone" could earn a very negative connotation. > > Apparently they have had, at least experimentally. Whether it was > visible light for pointing at paper or an activating beam for pointing > at photodiodes or photoresistors isn't clear: > > http://hci.rwth-aachen.de/materials/publications/ballagas2005d.pdf Sounds like a prototype. I just like the idea of packing all the functions I want in my pocket into one container. If it had a little pen in it, I could use that, too. Kinda like a Swiss Army knife -- OK for a lot of stuff but not necessarily great at any of them, but you like the convenient packaging. I use my phone as a flashlight (who doesn't) or a mirror (mine has a little mirror on it, but the screens are pretty reflective when turned off) or a calculator, etc., etc. Laser pointer could be handy. If it had IR and could work as a universal remote, that might be fun. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 16:20:50 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:20:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: <20110330140457.D29943@real-time.com> References: <20110330140457.D29943@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > These days we mostly use Debian and Ubuntu; but Linux is Linux and we > here have all used Red Hat systems for a very long time. For what it's worth, I agree that one should be more concerned about general Linux skills than about Red-Hat-specific skills (unless you already have people who are great with Linux and just don't know Red Hat features). Mike From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Mar 30 18:32:05 2011 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (tclug1 at whitleymott.net) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:32:05 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? Message-ID: <201103302332.p2UNW5tv012538@okra.fo4.net> >>are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is beyond the device? > >As an enthusiast photographer, I have NO IDEA what that means. perhaps 'virtual image' would be more accurate. a former colleague of mine was working on such a device years ago, his prototype employed a vibrating 1D display to produce a 2D image, unfortunately he's deceased now and i have no idea what happened to his project. From jucziz6 at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 21:36:27 2011 From: jucziz6 at gmail.com (James) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:36:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: References: <20110330140457.D29943@real-time.com> Message-ID: Since this is a redhat shop someone knowing only ubuntu would spend most of there time trying to figure out the redhat commands. We already have 2 people that are in that process and commenting that the company should be using ubuntu. Personally I'd fire the both of them because I don't have time to listen to distrubution wars. On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > >> These days we mostly use Debian and Ubuntu; but Linux is Linux and we here >> have all used Red Hat systems for a very long time. > > > For what it's worth, I agree that one should be more concerned about general > Linux skills than about Red-Hat-specific skills (unless you already have > people who are great with Linux and just don't know Red Hat features). > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From dave at sherohman.org Thu Mar 31 02:27:18 2011 From: dave at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:27:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> Message-ID: <20110331072718.GB32234@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 12:28:28PM -0500, Yaron wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, tclug1 at whitleymott.net wrote: >> are there any handheld devices available yet whose focal point is >> beyond the device? > > As an enthusiast photographer, I have NO IDEA what that means. Some years ago, I seem to recall seeing various head-mounted displays for sale which advertised focal distances of 6 feet or whatever, referring to the effective distance your eyes would focus at rather than making them work to focus directly on something an inch in front of them. I suspect this is roughly what OP was intending to ask about. However, this mechanic is only relevant to stereoscopic or other 3D displays, not to the plain LED/LCD displays used by the vast majority of handheld devices. Also, putting the focal point "beyond" the device implies, at least to me, that the device uses a transparent display plate and projects an image onto the display which appears to exist in the space behind the device; I am not aware of any handheld devices with such a display, even just as a flat HUD. -- Dave Sherohman From dave at sherohman.org Thu Mar 31 02:18:49 2011 From: dave at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:18:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: References: <20110330140457.D29943@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20110331071849.GA32234@sherohman.org> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 09:36:27PM -0500, James wrote: > Since this is a redhat shop someone knowing only ubuntu would spend > most of there time trying to figure out the redhat commands. Not so much, no. My Linux background is very Debian-centric, but I had no day-to-day problems at all a decade ago when I was first called on to admin Red Hat and Mandrake systems. Yeah, I occasionally tried looking in /var/log/syslog first before going to /var/log/messages and, true, all the web-server-related stuff was in .../httpd/ instead of .../apache/, but that takes, what, maybe a second once or twice a day, if that, to try one location first, then go to the other? Package management via rpm was more of an issue, but it didn't come up anywhere near on a daily (or even monthly) basis, so it didn't really matter if I had to check man first; today, yum is very similar to apt, so I'm right at home with it. Red Hat vs. Debian differences didn't take up even 1% of my time then and much, much less now. So I've gotta agree with Carl. Linux is Linux. -- Dave Sherohman From chrome at real-time.com Thu Mar 31 08:34:22 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:34:22 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] (OT) eye-phone? In-Reply-To: <20110331072718.GB32234@sherohman.org>; from dave@sherohman.org on Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 02:27:18AM -0500 References: <201103301659.p2UGxHps006822@okra.fo4.net> <20110331072718.GB32234@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20110331083422.F29943@real-time.com> On 03/31 02:27 , Dave Sherohman wrote: > Also, putting the focal point "beyond" the device > implies, at least to me, that the device uses a transparent display > plate and projects an image onto the display which appears to exist in > the space behind the device; I am not aware of any handheld devices with > such a display, even just as a flat HUD. Eotech rifle sights project an image back towards your eye that supposedly looks like it's about 50 feet ahead of you. They're referred to as 'holographic' sights (tho I can't vouch for the technical accuracy of that usage). http://www.thumpershole.com/gun_pics/eotech_view_2.JPG http://www.eotech-inc.com/ I find that they cause me eyestrain just to look at them tho. Can't stand the things. I much prefer conventional red-dot sights (like the ones Aimpoint makes), which project the image forward onto a semi-reflective lens. http://www.aimpoint.com/us/about-aimpoint/technology/ I think this sort of technology (a lens you look through to see the image) is what the OP was talking about. Xybernaut was working on technology that would allow you wear a heads-up-display; but apparently it wasn't good enough and no one bought them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xybernaut I don't know anything about these, but they seem like a pretty cool idea. http://www.vuzix.com/consumer/index.html -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From chrome at real-time.com Thu Mar 31 09:26:30 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:26:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Consultant company In-Reply-To: <20110331071849.GA32234@sherohman.org>; from dave@sherohman.org on Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 02:18:49AM -0500 References: <20110330140457.D29943@real-time.com> <20110331071849.GA32234@sherohman.org> Message-ID: <20110331092630.G29943@real-time.com> On 03/31 02:18 , Dave Sherohman wrote: > So I've gotta agree with Carl. Linux is Linux. Yep. They're all tending to gravitate to similar layouts as competition and cross-pollination of concepts encourages best practices. rpm -qa = dpkg -l /etc/sysconfig ~= /etc/default yum install = apt-get install SuSE is still a bit different from both; but Debian/Ubuntu and Redhat are pretty similar, just with some different names for files. I've taught linux administration with Debian, Redhat, and SuSE/Novell; doing it on Vmware guests, real x86 hardware, and even an S/390 mainframe. You get yourself into a 'mode' and just start operating in that mode. It is hard to not bitch about something when you've seen a better way to do it tho. Look at how much we hate Microsoft. That bitching is what drives progress. :) -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 11:51:49 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:51:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A couple quick Python questions In-Reply-To: References: <4D923B47.1090708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D94B125.6040704@gmail.com> >> > Second, is there any way to have positional arguments listed before >> > optional ones using argparse? > I'm pretty sure there is, but I'd have to look it up, and I'm feeling > equally lazy atm. :P I've looked around some more, and I've come to the conclusion that it can't be done (without modifying the module's source code, anyway). Order doesn't matter to the actual parser, but the usage message will always list positional arguments last. Since the help messages can list positional arguments first and the parser can parse positional arguments first, I suppose I can live with it. As for my other question, I could use shlex.split(), but I don't know how to escape characters in it. subprocess.Popen(['python', 'C:\\path\\test.py']) works, but I have no idea how to make that tuple with shlex.split(). It always complains about invalid syntax or unescaped characters if I put a backslash in the string. From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 11:55:30 2011 From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:55:30 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] A couple quick Python questions In-Reply-To: References: <4D923B47.1090708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D94B202.9000709@gmail.com> Never mind about shlex.split(). Turns out I need 4 backslashes to get 2, which become 1. From andyzib at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:30:18 2011 From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:30:18 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] printers for Linux In-Reply-To: <4D8A3F4E.6040702@e-skinner.net> References: <4D890254.8050602@e-skinner.net> <20110323130653.GO3082@styx.iucha.org> <20110323123211.G19693@real-time.com> <4D8A3F4E.6040702@e-skinner.net> Message-ID: The easiest way to find a printer that works in Linux (and Mac OS X) is to find one that speaks PostScript. If the printer speaks PostScript you're golden. You don't need drivers, just throw PostScript at the printer and get output. You can add a PPD (Postscript Printer Definition) file to CUPS for the printer to easily enable all of the printers features, but you can generally configure the printers features through CUPS without a PPD as well. If you can't find the printer's PPD file on the vendor's website it can usually be extracted out of the Windows PostScript drivers. Having the PPD isn't necessary in most cases. For a network printer, just point CUPS to the IP as an LPR/LPD device. Generally the URI looks like SOCKET://AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD:9100. Your printer may support other options as well. For B&W duplex printing I picked up a Lexmark E260dn a couple years ago. It's been a solid little printer for the money, and Lexmark toner cartridges include a return shipping label for sending the used cartridge back to Lexmark. The only downside is it wasn't wireless, but between mutiple Apple AirPorts and other routers capible of running OpenWRT and other firmwares to setup wireless to wired bridges this wasn't a concern. I find the E260dn to be really nice for a laser printer for home use, and no worries about properly disposing of used toner cartridges thanks to Lexmark's recycling program. My wife beat the heck out of the printer while working on her masters degree and the printer powered through no problem. For occasional color use we have an InkJet that we got free after rebate with my wife's MacBook. We rarely use it for printing, mostly it gets used as a scanner and fax machine. For pictures I take a USB stick to Target, or order through iPhoto, Shutterfly, SnapFish, etc. This may have changed with newer Dell printers, but one of the drawbacks of Dell printers used to be that you had to order new toner/ink from Dell as office supply stores didn't carry Dell consumables. This can be irksome if your new cartridge doesn't arrive before the old one runs out and you really need a hard copy of an important document. :) -- Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com From admin at lctn.org Thu Mar 31 13:56:49 2011 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:56:49 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line Message-ID: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> I'm trying to get an alert sound file to play via the command line when an alarm is tripped. It works when I am manually fire of the script at the counsel, and I can see the script called in syslog when the alarm is tripped, but do not get any sound then. When I used mplayer to play the file I would get pulseaudio errors about /var/www not being the home directory. Any ideas? From chrome at real-time.com Thu Mar 31 14:04:12 2011 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:04:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line In-Reply-To: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org>; from admin@lctn.org on Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 01:56:49PM -0500 References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> Message-ID: <20110331140412.I29943@real-time.com> On 03/31 01:56 , Raymond Norton wrote: > I'm trying to get an alert sound file to play via the command line > when an alarm is tripped. It works when I am manually fire of the script > at the counsel, and I can see the script called in syslog when the alarm > is tripped, but do not get any sound then. > > When I used mplayer to play the file I would get pulseaudio errors about > /var/www not being the home directory. try running the command from 'cron' owned by the user who runs the alarm software. Make sure that user has permission to access the audio devices. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 15:39:31 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:39:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [tclug-list] playing sound file via command line In-Reply-To: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> References: <4D94CE71.5040905@lctn.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Raymond Norton wrote: > I'm trying to get an alert sound file to play via the command line when > an alarm is tripped. It works when I am manually fire of the script at > the counsel, and I can see the script called in syslog when the alarm is > tripped, but do not get any sound then. > > When I used mplayer to play the file I would get pulseaudio errors about > /var/www not being the home directory. > > Any ideas? Are you on the MLUG list, too? If not, this is a spectacular coincidence because I was just dealing with almost the same issue on that list about 10 minutes before you sent your message. My problem was that I wanted to have an alarm bell sound in a certain number of seconds, but all I could come up with was this: sleep 3000 ; c=0 ; while [ $c -lt 1000 ] ; do echo -ne "\a" ; sleep 1 ; let c=$c+1 ; done It will start ringing in 3000 seconds (50 minutes) and it will ring every second (about) until I hit ctrl-c. It seems a little awkward, though. Someone told me I could get a better result this way: at now +50 minutes <<< "mplayer -loop 1000 /usr/share/sounds/purple/alert.wav &>/dev/null" It's a great solution for me. I searched for "alert.wav" on my Ubuntu box and found the one shown above. It rings about every second because that's about how long the alert.wav takes to play. It repeats 1000 times (but you can change that) and use of the "at" command gives a lot of flexibility for starting the process. I think I'll make a script called "alarm" to automate this. To kill it once it starts ringing, I do this: pkill mplayer If I didn't have the "&>/dev/null" in the command, it would produce stdout and send it to me as an email message, but I don't want that. The truth is, I'm not sure that i'm doing that exactly right because that's bash syntax and I think "at" is using sh. It is working for me, but that might be because I have no stderr. To see if mplayer works on your system when started by "at", try this to start it immediately, ringing only 10 times: at now <<< "mplayer -loop 10 /usr/share/sounds/purple/alert.wav &>/dev/null" Carl S. suggested using cron. I think "at" is a lot like cron, but I'm not sure of the differences in terms of which user started the job. Also check "atq" and "atrm" for times when you decide to stop the mplayer job before it starts. More notes: (1) If you tell "at" to start a job in "+1 minute", it will start the job at the beginning of the next minute, which might be in 5 seconds or 27 seconds, but it is very unlikely to be in 60 seconds. (2) If you want to kill all "at" jobs in the queue, you can do this: for i in $(atq | cut -f1) ; do atrm $i ; done Mike