From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  2 20:09:24 2012
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 21:09:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvZqUpj1m8wedsC2r0hYqoNd9=fvjhefS39ZoGE6CtG-Q@mail.gmail.com>

From: Robert Nesius

> If you're not familiar with ssh-tunneling, or would like to understand it
> better - I recommend perusing the ssh2 book from O'Reilly.  There is a
> chapter in there on port-forwarding that I found well worth the read.
>
> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596008956.do<http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596008956.do>

I bought a copy of this.

Does anyone know of examples of on line services that use
tunneling?  I've not found much.

And what about restricting the account --
http://rjmetrics.zendesk.com/entries/20313338-only-allow-tunneling-through-an-ssh-connection

That says to use bash -r.  I found though that the gui to add
a user wants me to pick a program (like bash) without any
options.  It doesn't look like chsh -- change shell -- permits
options either.

http://superuser.com/questions/250326/how-to-allow-anonymous-ssh-login-to-a-linux-box-and-only-run-one-program

What do you recommend?  Is the chroot in that last link a good idea?

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Sun Dec  2 21:23:54 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 21:23:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjvZqUpj1m8wedsC2r0hYqoNd9=fvjhefS39ZoGE6CtG-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjvZqUpj1m8wedsC2r0hYqoNd9=fvjhefS39ZoGE6CtG-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08rgGZ9aPRrPEBkzpy9BgXGe+XoNFaxFsQHT-AH1XnDkdg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know of examples of on line services that use
> tunneling?  I've not found much.

No, but I suspect that's due to the fact that learning the few
command-line flags for tunneling is a bit higher learning curve than
most people are willing to put up with.  That said, ssh tunnelling is
*immensely* useful for day-to-day development/sysadmin type
activities.

I use it exclusively to connect to our EC2 cluster, in lieu of a
full-fledged VPN. It's fast, simple, reliable, and doesn't require any
additional configuration on the server side of things.

As an example of how I use ssh tunneling on a near-daily basis: Sequel
Pro, a MySQL client for OSX, supports accessing the remote DB over an
ssh tunnel. So all you need to do is give Sequel Pro the ssh server
name, your username, and db credentials and Bob's your uncle. Instant
secure, remote database access.

Oh, I did think of one very popular service that leverages ssh
tunnelling - github. When pushing commits to any repository on github,
you're tunnelling git over ssh.

-Erik
P.S. I know this has been discussed on the list before, but it's
useful enough to bear repeating: One more frequent use case is giving
yourself a secure SOCKS-compatible proxy. This is very useful on
public, untrusted networks to allow you to tunnel all of your browsing
traffic through a secure tunnel. Assuming you have a linux server
somewhere at your disposal, just run:

$ ssh user at host -D8000

That will set up a dynamic (SOCKS) proxy on your localhost port 8000.
Then in your browser settings, just configure it to use localhost:8000
as a proxy.

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sun Dec  2 21:41:18 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 21:41:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
Message-ID: <1o8yu1v9e47eqtklffpl3cey.1354506078528@email.android.com>

To add to eriks socks proxy comments, firefox and perhaps other browsers can also tunnel its DNS queries through the socks proxy as well for added privacy.?

-------- Original message --------
From: Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> 
Date:  
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop 
 
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know of examples of on line services that use
> tunneling?? I've not found much.

No, but I suspect that's due to the fact that learning the few
command-line flags for tunneling is a bit higher learning curve than
most people are willing to put up with.? That said, ssh tunnelling is
*immensely* useful for day-to-day development/sysadmin type
activities.

I use it exclusively to connect to our EC2 cluster, in lieu of a
full-fledged VPN. It's fast, simple, reliable, and doesn't require any
additional configuration on the server side of things.

As an example of how I use ssh tunneling on a near-daily basis: Sequel
Pro, a MySQL client for OSX, supports accessing the remote DB over an
ssh tunnel. So all you need to do is give Sequel Pro the ssh server
name, your username, and db credentials and Bob's your uncle. Instant
secure, remote database access.

Oh, I did think of one very popular service that leverages ssh
tunnelling - github. When pushing commits to any repository on github,
you're tunnelling git over ssh.

-Erik
P.S. I know this has been discussed on the list before, but it's
useful enough to bear repeating: One more frequent use case is giving
yourself a secure SOCKS-compatible proxy. This is very useful on
public, untrusted networks to allow you to tunnel all of your browsing
traffic through a secure tunnel. Assuming you have a linux server
somewhere at your disposal, just run:

$ ssh user at host -D8000

That will set up a dynamic (SOCKS) proxy on your localhost port 8000.
Then in your browser settings, just configure it to use localhost:8000
as a proxy.
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Sun Dec  2 22:16:55 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 22:16:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <1o8yu1v9e47eqtklffpl3cey.1354506078528@email.android.com>
References: <1o8yu1v9e47eqtklffpl3cey.1354506078528@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08rAw2UWyh08WGJ_3keVQRwAWg1Tzbw=yRdodgAQb351_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:41 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:
> To add to eriks socks proxy comments, firefox and perhaps other browsers can
> also tunnel its DNS queries through the socks proxy as well for added
> privacy.

Good point, Justin. I tend to view my DNS records (and queries) as
more-or-less public information, so I don't really worry about this
too much, but I could imagine other circumstances where one would want
to protect DNS resolver traffic.

From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Sun Dec  2 22:14:22 2012
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 22:14:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
References: <1o8yu1v9e47eqtklffpl3cey.1354506078528@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <50BC271E-00050390@penguinpackets.com>

If you are not averse to having Python installed the remote computer, and can
live without UDP, you could give Sshuttle a try:  

https://github.com/apenwarr/sshuttle  

Works well for forwarding more than just a few ports - i.e. a whole network -
(assuming you can run Python on the far end - think port forwarding).  

Kelly
KB0GBJ?  
>  Sun Dec 02 2012 09:41:18 PM CST from "Justin Krejci"
><jus at krytosvirus.com>  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
>
>  To add to eriks socks proxy comments, firefox and perhaps other browsers
>can also tunnel its DNS queries through the socks proxy as well for added
>privacy.?
>
>
>-------- Original message --------
>From: Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> 
>Date: 
>To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop 
> 
>
>On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone know of examples of on line services that use
>> tunneling?? I've not found much.
>
>No, but I suspect that's due to the fact that learning the few
>command-line flags for tunneling is a bit higher learning curve than
>most people are willing to put up with.? That said, ssh tunnelling is
>*immensely* useful for day-to-day development/sysadmin type
>activities.
>
>I use it exclusively to connect to our EC2 cluster, in lieu of a
>full-fledged VPN. It's fast, simple, reliable, and doesn't require any
>additional configuration on the server side of things.
>
>As an example of how I use ssh tunneling on a near-daily basis: Sequel
>Pro, a MySQL client for OSX, supports accessing the remote DB over an
>ssh tunnel. So all you need to do is give Sequel Pro the ssh server
>name, your username, and db credentials and Bob's your uncle. Instant
>secure, remote database access.
>
>Oh, I did think of one very popular service that leverages ssh
>tunnelling - github. When pushing commits to any repository on github,
>you're tunnelling git over ssh.
>
>-Erik
>P.S. I know this has been discussed on the list before, but it's
>useful enough to bear repeating: One more frequent use case is giving
>yourself a secure SOCKS-compatible proxy. This is very useful on
>public, untrusted networks to allow you to tunnel all of your browsing
>traffic through a secure tunnel. Assuming you have a linux server
>somewhere at your disposal, just run:
>
>$ ssh user at host -D8000
>
>That will set up a dynamic (SOCKS) proxy on your localhost port 8000.
>Then in your browser settings, just configure it to use localhost:8000
>as a proxy.
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>   (, 0 bytes) [View| Download]
>  ?
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  

  

?
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From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Sun Dec  2 23:52:18 2012
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric F Crist)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 23:52:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <50BC271E-00050390@penguinpackets.com>
References: <1o8yu1v9e47eqtklffpl3cey.1354506078528@email.android.com>
	<50BC271E-00050390@penguinpackets.com>
Message-ID: <cf8fc82e-4052-4644-b8d1-ae5930373318@email.android.com>

At this point, you may as well install/configure OpenVPN. 

kelly <kelly.black at penguinpackets.com> wrote:

>If you are not averse to having Python installed the remote computer,
>and can
>live without UDP, you could give Sshuttle a try:  
>
>https://github.com/apenwarr/sshuttle  
>
>Works well for forwarding more than just a few ports - i.e. a whole
>network -
>(assuming you can run Python on the far end - think port forwarding).  
>
>Kelly
>KB0GBJ?  
>>  Sun Dec 02 2012 09:41:18 PM CST from "Justin Krejci"
>><jus at krytosvirus.com>  Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
>>
>>  To add to eriks socks proxy comments, firefox and perhaps other
>browsers
>>can also tunnel its DNS queries through the socks proxy as well for
>added
>>privacy.?
>>
>>
>>-------- Original message --------
>>From: Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> 
>>Date: 
>>To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop 
>> 
>>
>>On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>> Does anyone know of examples of on line services that use
>>> tunneling?? I've not found much.
>>
>>No, but I suspect that's due to the fact that learning the few
>>command-line flags for tunneling is a bit higher learning curve than
>>most people are willing to put up with.? That said, ssh tunnelling is
>>*immensely* useful for day-to-day development/sysadmin type
>>activities.
>>
>>I use it exclusively to connect to our EC2 cluster, in lieu of a
>>full-fledged VPN. It's fast, simple, reliable, and doesn't require any
>>additional configuration on the server side of things.
>>
>>As an example of how I use ssh tunneling on a near-daily basis: Sequel
>>Pro, a MySQL client for OSX, supports accessing the remote DB over an
>>ssh tunnel. So all you need to do is give Sequel Pro the ssh server
>>name, your username, and db credentials and Bob's your uncle. Instant
>>secure, remote database access.
>>
>>Oh, I did think of one very popular service that leverages ssh
>>tunnelling - github. When pushing commits to any repository on github,
>>you're tunnelling git over ssh.
>>
>>-Erik
>>P.S. I know this has been discussed on the list before, but it's
>>useful enough to bear repeating: One more frequent use case is giving
>>yourself a secure SOCKS-compatible proxy. This is very useful on
>>public, untrusted networks to allow you to tunnel all of your browsing
>>traffic through a secure tunnel. Assuming you have a linux server
>>somewhere at your disposal, just run:
>>
>>$ ssh user at host -D8000
>>
>>That will set up a dynamic (SOCKS) proxy on your localhost port 8000.
>>Then in your browser settings, just configure it to use localhost:8000
>>as a proxy.
>>_______________________________________________
>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>   (, 0 bytes) [View| Download]
>>  ?
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>
>  
>
>?
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 00:29:42 2012
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 00:29:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
Message-ID: <CABWFOjsbS8BjOGQ2eb83hCeW0dBgn5GMxUzA+vq8tUL-MfvKqA@mail.gmail.com>

From: Erik Anderson
> No, but I suspect that's due to the fact that learning the few
> command-line flags for tunneling is a bit higher learning curve than
> most people are willing to put up with. That said, ssh tunnelling is
> *immensely* useful for day-to-day development/sysadmin type
> activities.

I think I can supply the commands in a script.

ssh -f -N -L 44489:localhost:56789 ebenezer at webEbenezer.net

(I wrote that from memory so may not be right.)

I see github has an automated way to take your public
ssh key --
https://help.github.com/articles/generating-ssh-keys
.
I won't have anything like that for awhile so am wondering
how to take those from users.  I guess sending them in an
email will work to begin with.
I figured out to use the command="/bin/bash -r" in the
authorized_keys file.  I couldn't find info about the syntax
for that file.  I found examples that showed different features,
but not a reference.

I struggle with the sysadmin/config stuff so thoughts
on how to improve things there are appreciated.  To
modify my request for examples of services that use
tunneling, I'd like to find examples that are smaller/
less automated than github.
-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 14:11:33 2012
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 14:11:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving Windows partion to a virtual disk image?
In-Reply-To: <50b908e5.0c0a650a.6982.61b4@mx.google.com>
References: <50b908e5.0c0a650a.6982.61b4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMh5oVrWzQHAmYL3mfATiUKyP_AWvXZFA+f4Jmu3tLdjDP4Ofg@mail.gmail.com>

Try the tools and methods already suggested. If they don't work, you could
try using sysprep on your existing Windows installation to bring windows
back to a manufacturer delivering to end user state and force redirection
of hardware. What I would do though is just go for the more reliable method
of simply doing a new clean Windows install into Virtual Box. If you're
using Windows Vista or Windows 7 the "Windows Easy Transfer" tool makes
moving your files and settings from the old to the new new Windows install
easy and will even give you a report of applications you may want to
install on your new Windows computer. Windows XP has a similar tool, but I
don't remember it's name. Migration Wizard maybe.

I'd honestly go with a new install and configure my VirtualMachine and host
machine to share the documents, desktop, and other folders in whatever
method is supported by the virtualization software so that my documents and
important files always stay on the host machine instead of only being
available to the Virtual Machine or by mounting the virtual machine disk
image.

--
Andrew Zbikowski
http://andy.zibnet.us/
Bah-weep-Graaaaagnah wheep mini bon.
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From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 14:15:36 2012
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 14:15:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving Windows partion to a virtual disk image?
In-Reply-To: <CAMh5oVrWzQHAmYL3mfATiUKyP_AWvXZFA+f4Jmu3tLdjDP4Ofg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50b908e5.0c0a650a.6982.61b4@mx.google.com>
	<CAMh5oVrWzQHAmYL3mfATiUKyP_AWvXZFA+f4Jmu3tLdjDP4Ofg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEGU=YpThe3WXJLhPg0=DTyYps3XamVcfUiWhGfU-2YpoA@mail.gmail.com>

> I'd honestly go with a new install and configure my VirtualMachine and host
> machine to share the documents, desktop, and other folders in whatever
> method is supported by the virtualization software so that my documents and
> important files always stay on the host machine instead of only being
> available to the Virtual Machine or by mounting the virtual machine disk
> image.

That's my preference too, however it's always a hassle trying to find
Windows installation media.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I probably will be holding off
until spring now before buying a new machine, but I'll follow up then
on the thread to let you know how it goes.

-Erik

-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From blutgens at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 14:17:33 2012
From: blutgens at gmail.com (Ben)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 14:17:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving Windows partion to a virtual disk image?
In-Reply-To: <CANNReEGU=YpThe3WXJLhPg0=DTyYps3XamVcfUiWhGfU-2YpoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50b908e5.0c0a650a.6982.61b4@mx.google.com>
	<CAMh5oVrWzQHAmYL3mfATiUKyP_AWvXZFA+f4Jmu3tLdjDP4Ofg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEGU=YpThe3WXJLhPg0=DTyYps3XamVcfUiWhGfU-2YpoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoiwe6iHnL_0YhPd51y3q1B8JJ39Sbjiwo6Jr+4m8kwSjS0Zw@mail.gmail.com>

I used the vmware converter to p2v a work machine so I could instead run
linux on it. Worked great.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> > I'd honestly go with a new install and configure my VirtualMachine and
> host
> > machine to share the documents, desktop, and other folders in whatever
> > method is supported by the virtualization software so that my documents
> and
> > important files always stay on the host machine instead of only being
> > available to the Virtual Machine or by mounting the virtual machine disk
> > image.
>
> That's my preference too, however it's always a hassle trying to find
> Windows installation media.
>
> Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I probably will be holding off
> until spring now before buying a new machine, but I'll follow up then
> on the thread to let you know how it goes.
>
> -Erik
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Ben Lutgens
Linux / Unix System Administrator

Three of your friends throw up after eating chicken salad.  Do you think:
"I should find more robust friends" or "we should check that refrigerator"?
       -- Donald Becker, on vortex-bug, suspecting a network-wide problem
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 16:02:03 2012
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 16:02:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9C2CD2N7jp-axNcHho4UetcEru+Vqsoi8WG5Vf-c7bxTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9C2CD2N7jp-axNcHho4UetcEru+Vqsoi8WG5Vf-c7bxTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMh5oVo_DOhXZTqouT7WkkZG9_Aa5Z5A8ybdKM1JegwgVqSn7Q@mail.gmail.com>

VNC can be a bit flakey when operating cross platform. If you have 3 or
fewer Windows and Mac computers you might want to try LogMeIn. Easy to
setup, no mucking about with ssh forwarding of VPN configuration, and on
Windows you can grab your console. You still can't do multiple simultaneous
users unless you use a Windows Server OS. When accessing LogMeIn on Linux
I'm guessing you would have to have Java enabled on your browser, but they
might have a cross platform Firefox plugin. Last time I tried in Chrome it
kicked me to the Java version. When you first sign up LogMeIn will give you
30 days of the Pro edition, and if you don't pay them and have 3 or fewer
computers it will drop to the free edition (and occasionally ask you to
upgrade to the paid edition again, which can be ignored indefinitely.)

--
Andrew Zbikowski
http://andy.zibnet.us/
Live every week like it's Shark Week.
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From droidjd at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 16:48:54 2012
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 16:48:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <CAMh5oVo_DOhXZTqouT7WkkZG9_Aa5Z5A8ybdKM1JegwgVqSn7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9C2CD2N7jp-axNcHho4UetcEru+Vqsoi8WG5Vf-c7bxTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMh5oVo_DOhXZTqouT7WkkZG9_Aa5Z5A8ybdKM1JegwgVqSn7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdyZ1L__Nup1LssR7Vz0AHZFYUiEvBxZ2vxfZMtgDT4m6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Just to add to the conversation, you can also use the RDP plug-in through
Chrome.  It works pretty well, tying the computers you have access to to
your Google account, allowing you to access them later with a PIN.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-remote-desktop/gbchcmhmhahfdphkhkmpfmihenigjmpp

Since I found out about it, I've stopped dealing with SSH tunneling each
time I want to get into my box at home.  Of course, this is only an option
if you don't mind letting Google store a little information. ;-)

-Andrew


On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com>wrote:

> VNC can be a bit flakey when operating cross platform. If you have 3 or
> fewer Windows and Mac computers you might want to try LogMeIn. Easy to
> setup, no mucking about with ssh forwarding of VPN configuration, and on
> Windows you can grab your console. You still can't do multiple simultaneous
> users unless you use a Windows Server OS. When accessing LogMeIn on Linux
> I'm guessing you would have to have Java enabled on your browser, but they
> might have a cross platform Firefox plugin. Last time I tried in Chrome it
> kicked me to the Java version. When you first sign up LogMeIn will give you
> 30 days of the Pro edition, and if you don't pay them and have 3 or fewer
> computers it will drop to the free edition (and occasionally ask you to
> upgrade to the paid edition again, which can be ignored indefinitely.)
>
> --
> Andrew Zbikowski
> http://andy.zibnet.us/
> Live every week like it's Shark Week.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 18:34:19 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 18:34:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving Windows partion to a virtual disk image?
In-Reply-To: <CANoiwe6iHnL_0YhPd51y3q1B8JJ39Sbjiwo6Jr+4m8kwSjS0Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50b908e5.0c0a650a.6982.61b4@mx.google.com>
	<CAMh5oVrWzQHAmYL3mfATiUKyP_AWvXZFA+f4Jmu3tLdjDP4Ofg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEGU=YpThe3WXJLhPg0=DTyYps3XamVcfUiWhGfU-2YpoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoiwe6iHnL_0YhPd51y3q1B8JJ39Sbjiwo6Jr+4m8kwSjS0Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPme7cS3aO-vrOb9x2M=RZv-FPXQf80dcS24hZv9MqfZxQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Ben <blutgens at gmail.com> wrote:
> I used the vmware converter to p2v a work machine so I could instead run
> linux on it. Worked great.

I've P2V'd quite a few machines using VMware convertor, I'd at least
give it a try.  Install the latest version of convertor on your
Windows machine, choose to convert it to Workstation (it will just
generate a set of files) and you should be able to import the .vmdk.

Brian

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Mon Dec  3 19:08:21 2012
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 19:08:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving Windows partion to a virtual disk image?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoPme7cS3aO-vrOb9x2M=RZv-FPXQf80dcS24hZv9MqfZxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50b908e5.0c0a650a.6982.61b4@mx.google.com>
	<CAMh5oVrWzQHAmYL3mfATiUKyP_AWvXZFA+f4Jmu3tLdjDP4Ofg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEGU=YpThe3WXJLhPg0=DTyYps3XamVcfUiWhGfU-2YpoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoiwe6iHnL_0YhPd51y3q1B8JJ39Sbjiwo6Jr+4m8kwSjS0Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB3QoPme7cS3aO-vrOb9x2M=RZv-FPXQf80dcS24hZv9MqfZxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEF=+ERZOtAS8riZ8z8fAJzH1gx+j2J4uQ3hdYbDh06KRg@mail.gmail.com>

I assume that means you need to use VMWare then?

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Ben <blutgens at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I used the vmware converter to p2v a work machine so I could instead run
>> linux on it. Worked great.
>
> I've P2V'd quite a few machines using VMware convertor, I'd at least
> give it a try.  Install the latest version of convertor on your
> Windows machine, choose to convert it to Workstation (it will just
> generate a set of files) and you should be able to import the .vmdk.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Tue Dec  4 09:58:58 2012
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 09:58:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer hardware
Message-ID: <CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg@mail.gmail.com>

Compaq (thin flat case)
Pentium II 450
256MB RAM
CDROM drive
4GB hard drive

Tower case
AMD MP 2800+ 2 processors
Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard
1GB RAM
OCZ 500 watt power supply
Gives spurious mcelog entries under both OpenSUSE and Ubuntu

Hardware is in Maple Grove, email me direct if you want it and can pick it
up. If I don't hear from anyone by tonight I intend to recycle it tomorrow.


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From reo.pratt at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 11:54:40 2012
From: reo.pratt at gmail.com (Reo Pratt)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:54:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer hardware
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+h5HZ6rTg7tGwt=QX9R2JYr+HpifJZosk2n386m5rQZ6stuyA@mail.gmail.com>

I want them and can pick them up Compaq and can pick it up between 3 and 6
PM.

Reo Pratt
952-297-4886 (M)

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> Compaq (thin flat case)
> Pentium II 450
> 256MB RAM
> CDROM drive
> 4GB hard drive
>
> Tower case
> AMD MP 2800+ 2 processors
> Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard
> 1GB RAM
> OCZ 500 watt power supply
> Gives spurious mcelog entries under both OpenSUSE and Ubuntu
>
> Hardware is in Maple Grove, email me direct if you want it and can pick it
> up. If I don't hear from anyone by tonight I intend to recycle it tomorrow.
>
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From reo.pratt at gmail.com  Tue Dec  4 11:58:04 2012
From: reo.pratt at gmail.com (Reo Pratt)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:58:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer hardware
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+h5HZ7QzqEL=d95JCqtiBSsChCF4mjV7_yBPCxwLU7X2nrXJQ@mail.gmail.com>

I just re-read my message, and realize I didn't proof it before I clicked
send.  My apologies.  I'd like the Compaq and can pick it up.  I am off
work at 3PM and could come pick it up between 3:30 and 5Pm at your
convenience, or later in the evening about 7.

Reo Pratt
952-297-4886

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> Compaq (thin flat case)
> Pentium II 450
> 256MB RAM
> CDROM drive
> 4GB hard drive
>
> Tower case
> AMD MP 2800+ 2 processors
> Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard
> 1GB RAM
> OCZ 500 watt power supply
> Gives spurious mcelog entries under both OpenSUSE and Ubuntu
>
> Hardware is in Maple Grove, email me direct if you want it and can pick it
> up. If I don't hear from anyone by tonight I intend to recycle it tomorrow.
>
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org  Tue Dec  4 12:14:42 2012
From: Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org (Nicholas Korsakov)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:14:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list. Free computer hardware.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1354644002.17528.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1354644002.17528.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA42081605D2@condor.mwcia.org>

Hello.

I am also interested in the hardware...but just the Compaq.
I think that I could load Macpup Linux onto the Compaq and either
do a full install or just run it the RAM. It's a very small distro, so 
it should work great. This would be fantastic for my upcoming trip to Cambodia.

I get off work at 6 pm.
Let me know what you think.

Thank you.

-- Nicholas
612.208.2317

-----Original Message-----


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 09:58:58 -0600
From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer hardware
Message-ID:
	<CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Compaq (thin flat case)
Pentium II 450
256MB RAM
CDROM drive
4GB hard drive

Tower case
AMD MP 2800+ 2 processors
Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard
1GB RAM
OCZ 500 watt power supply
Gives spurious mcelog entries under both OpenSUSE and Ubuntu

Hardware is in Maple Grove, email me direct if you want it and can pick it
up. If I don't hear from anyone by tonight I intend to recycle it tomorrow.


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:54:40 -0600
From: Reo Pratt <reo.pratt at gmail.com>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Free computer hardware
Message-ID:
	<CA+h5HZ6rTg7tGwt=QX9R2JYr+HpifJZosk2n386m5rQZ6stuyA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I want them and can pick them up Compaq and can pick it up between 3 and 6
PM.

Reo Pratt
952-297-4886 (M)

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> Compaq (thin flat case)
> Pentium II 450
> 256MB RAM
> CDROM drive
> 4GB hard drive
>
> Tower case
> AMD MP 2800+ 2 processors
> Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard
> 1GB RAM
> OCZ 500 watt power supply
> Gives spurious mcelog entries under both OpenSUSE and Ubuntu
>
> Hardware is in Maple Grove, email me direct if you want it and can pick it
> up. If I don't hear from anyone by tonight I intend to recycle it tomorrow.
>
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 11:58:04 -0600
From: Reo Pratt <reo.pratt at gmail.com>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Free computer hardware
Message-ID:
	<CA+h5HZ7QzqEL=d95JCqtiBSsChCF4mjV7_yBPCxwLU7X2nrXJQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I just re-read my message, and realize I didn't proof it before I clicked
send.  My apologies.  I'd like the Compaq and can pick it up.  I am off
work at 3PM and could come pick it up between 3:30 and 5Pm at your
convenience, or later in the evening about 7.

Reo Pratt
952-297-4886

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> Compaq (thin flat case)
> Pentium II 450
> 256MB RAM
> CDROM drive
> 4GB hard drive
>
> Tower case
> AMD MP 2800+ 2 processors
> Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard
> 1GB RAM
> OCZ 500 watt power supply
> Gives spurious mcelog entries under both OpenSUSE and Ubuntu
>
> Hardware is in Maple Grove, email me direct if you want it and can pick it
> up. If I don't hear from anyone by tonight I intend to recycle it tomorrow.
>
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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------------------------------

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 96, Issue 5
*****************************************

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Tue Dec  4 15:57:05 2012
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:57:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free computer hardware
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnoyXqrhFt7sXxue+bFmGpsf_rA7eWD1rEWmQ9ioNCf33Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALpcnoxr6wLhRmLGwt0sebj45K=kQYQcsgwrEGXba_AE8zEFyA@mail.gmail.com>

The tower is gone. The Compaq desktop is left.

I also have a Plextor SCSI cd writer and various ISA and PCI SCSI cards,
cables and terminators if anyone is interested.


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> Compaq (thin flat case)
> Pentium II 450
> 256MB RAM
> CDROM drive
> 4GB hard drive
>
> Tower case
> AMD MP 2800+ 2 processors
> Tyan Tiger MPX motherboard
> 1GB RAM
> OCZ 500 watt power supply
> Gives spurious mcelog entries under both OpenSUSE and Ubuntu
>
> Hardware is in Maple Grove, email me direct if you want it and can pick it
> up. If I don't hear from anyone by tonight I intend to recycle it tomorrow.
>
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
>


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 22:25:06 2012
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 23:25:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsbS8BjOGQ2eb83hCeW0dBgn5GMxUzA+vq8tUL-MfvKqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsbS8BjOGQ2eb83hCeW0dBgn5GMxUzA+vq8tUL-MfvKqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtCtmuM3N=1qA2R1bhffquW52bNTb7Wz6T2MCVPDCCevg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 1:29 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Erik Anderson
> > No, but I suspect that's due to the fact that learning the few
> > command-line flags for tunneling is a bit higher learning curve than
> > most people are willing to put up with. That said, ssh tunnelling is
> > *immensely* useful for day-to-day development/sysadmin type
> > activities.
>
> I think I can supply the commands in a script.
>
> ssh -f -N -L 44489:localhost:56789 ebenezer at webEbenezer.net
>
> (I wrote that from memory so may not be right.)
>
> I see github has an automated way to take your public
> ssh key --
> https://help.github.com/articles/generating-ssh-keys
> .
> I won't have anything like that for awhile so am wondering
> how to take those from users.  I guess sending them in an
> email will work to begin with.
> I figured out to use the command="/bin/bash -r" in the
> authorized_keys file.  I couldn't find info about the syntax
> for that file.  I found examples that showed different features,
> but not a reference.
>
> I struggle with the sysadmin/config stuff so thoughts
> on how to improve things there are appreciated.  To
> modify my request for examples of services that use
> tunneling, I'd like to find examples that are smaller/
> less automated than github.
>
>
Am still looking for some other examples.

When I start a tunnel, 3 ssh related processes show up.
When I kill the tunnel, those 3 processes go away.
Can someone tell me why 3 processes are used and if
there's a way to reduce it to 2 processes?

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises  -- so far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Wed Dec  5 23:23:47 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 23:23:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtCtmuM3N=1qA2R1bhffquW52bNTb7Wz6T2MCVPDCCevg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsbS8BjOGQ2eb83hCeW0dBgn5GMxUzA+vq8tUL-MfvKqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABWFOjtCtmuM3N=1qA2R1bhffquW52bNTb7Wz6T2MCVPDCCevg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08qdUVqYQ0hfR7pFmyN5j2wZszx2h26P8EyorcpatWpBww@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Am still looking for some other examples.

Examples of services using ssh tunnelling or examples of how services
accept user-submitted ssh public keys?

Perhaps it would be easier for you to give us your use case so we can
better understand what you're trying to do.

> When I start a tunnel, 3 ssh related processes show up.
> When I kill the tunnel, those 3 processes go away.
> Can someone tell me why 3 processes are used and if
> there's a way to reduce it to 2 processes?

I'm not sure what version of the OpenSSH server you're running, but on
all the systems I have access to, each new ssh connection only spawns
two new processes: one owned by root and one by the user I
authenticated as:

erik at host:~$ ps aux | grep -v grep | grep ssh | grep erik
root     26628  0.0  0.2  73360  3572 ?        Ss   23:10   0:00 sshd:
erik [priv]
erik     26759  0.0  0.0  73360  1668 ?        S    23:10   0:00 sshd:
erik at pts/0

The root-owned process is the parent, and serves as the broker between
the user-owned process which deals with untrusted connections and the
rest of the system.

Out of curiosity, why are you so concerned with the number of
processes OpenSSH is using?

-Erik

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 13:28:18 2012
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:28:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvE_seREBN4sVSX+m0d0OCTdfE2E1waD18ywEE+=YNs0w@mail.gmail.com>

Erik Anderson:

> Examples of services using ssh tunnelling or examples of how services
> accept user-submitted ssh public keys?

Either/both.  Examples that are less automated than Github.

> Perhaps it would be easier for you to give us your use case so we can
> better understand what you're trying to do.

I'm working on an on line code generator that's implemented
as a 3-tier system.  The data passed between the middle and
back tiers includes files --
http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
.  I'm starting to use tunneling to encrypt the messages between
the back and middle tiers.  It would be helpful to see how others
have documented and scripted their use of ssh tunneling with
their service.


> I'm not sure what version of the OpenSSH server you're running, but on
> all the systems I have access to, each new ssh connection only spawns
> two new processes: one owned by root and one by the user I
> authenticated as:

My mistake.  I was confused by running everything on one
machine.  Sorry for the noise.

I'm also wondering about restricting the tunneling.  I guess it
may have to do with the authorized_keys file, but am not sure
how to limit what ports are available for tunneling.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384
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From admin at lctn.org  Thu Dec  6 13:37:57 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 13:37:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
Message-ID: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>

We would like to toy around with virtual desktops and don't want to make 
an investment in something like VMware View . Is there an open source 
solution that people are happy with?


Raymond

From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Thu Dec  6 13:46:01 2012
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric Crist)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 13:46:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>

VNC + X11?
-----
Eric F Crist



On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:37:57, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> We would like to toy around with virtual desktops and don't want to make an investment in something like VMware View . Is there an open source solution that people are happy with?
> 
> 
> Raymond
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Dec  6 13:49:51 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 13:49:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
	<B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <50C0F6DF.8080507@lctn.org>

The desktops would need to be windows. Our main issue is how poor video 
plays over an RDP session. Have not played with actual virtual desktops, 
but was hoping it would do better with graphics.





On 12/6/2012 1:46 PM, Eric Crist wrote:
> VNC + X11?
> -----
> Eric F Crist
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:37:57, Raymond Norton<admin at lctn.org>  wrote:
>
>> We would like to toy around with virtual desktops and don't want to make an investment in something like VMware View . Is there an open source solution that people are happy with?
>>
>>
>> Raymond
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From ecrist at secure-computing.net  Thu Dec  6 13:53:01 2012
From: ecrist at secure-computing.net (Eric Crist)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 13:53:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <50C0F6DF.8080507@lctn.org>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
	<B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>
	<50C0F6DF.8080507@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <1D4BE47E-7659-4179-AA9F-078886EED830@secure-computing.net>

maybe virtual desktops aren't what you're really looking for?  those connections tend to be compressed, and the compression of the video, plus the compression of the remote desktop connection correlates to shit video playback.  couple that with added latency, and it's going to be a bad experience.  This isn't a hard and fast rule, but you need to consider how things will be used.

-----
Eric F Crist



On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:49:51, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

> The desktops would need to be windows. Our main issue is how poor video plays over an RDP session. Have not played with actual virtual desktops, but was hoping it would do better with graphics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/6/2012 1:46 PM, Eric Crist wrote:
>> VNC + X11?
>> -----
>> Eric F Crist
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:37:57, Raymond Norton<admin at lctn.org>  wrote:
>> 
>>> We would like to toy around with virtual desktops and don't want to make an investment in something like VMware View . Is there an open source solution that people are happy with?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Raymond
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From admin at lctn.org  Thu Dec  6 13:58:26 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 13:58:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <1D4BE47E-7659-4179-AA9F-078886EED830@secure-computing.net>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>	<B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>	<50C0F6DF.8080507@lctn.org>
	<1D4BE47E-7659-4179-AA9F-078886EED830@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <50C0F8E2.5040401@lctn.org>

I appreciate the feed back.

The project is for a school. They seemed to like the idea of the compact 
size of a thin client. After showing them the way video plays, they were 
sure that would not work. I recommended a fanless unit , like a Zotac 
box that they could strapped on the back of a monitor. Seems like that 
would work, but they were hoping to see how VDs would work before making 
a decision.



On 12/6/2012 1:53 PM, Eric Crist wrote:
> maybe virtual desktops aren't what you're really looking for?  those connections tend to be compressed, and the compression of the video, plus the compression of the remote desktop connection correlates to shit video playback.  couple that with added latency, and it's going to be a bad experience.  This isn't a hard and fast rule, but you need to consider how things will be used.
>
> -----
> Eric F Crist
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:49:51, Raymond Norton<admin at lctn.org>  wrote:
>
>> The desktops would need to be windows. Our main issue is how poor video plays over an RDP session. Have not played with actual virtual desktops, but was hoping it would do better with graphics.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2012 1:46 PM, Eric Crist wrote:
>>> VNC + X11?
>>> -----
>>> Eric F Crist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:37:57, Raymond Norton<admin at lctn.org>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> We would like to toy around with virtual desktops and don't want to make an investment in something like VMware View . Is there an open source solution that people are happy with?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Raymond
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From trnja001 at umn.edu  Thu Dec  6 14:13:13 2012
From: trnja001 at umn.edu (Elvedin Trnjanin)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:13:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <1D4BE47E-7659-4179-AA9F-078886EED830@secure-computing.net>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
	<B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>
	<50C0F6DF.8080507@lctn.org>
	<1D4BE47E-7659-4179-AA9F-078886EED830@secure-computing.net>
Message-ID: <6A936A08-607A-4962-893B-D90B1F880491@umn.edu>

I will agree that virtual desktops are not what you're looking for if you're primary concern is the display protocol. However, protocol such as PCoIP or ICA/HDX (XenDesktop) do perform well over slower connections and higher latencies and will not be a bad experience. If they're a typical user and are usually typing up a document on one monitor with a reasonable resolution (e.g. not 2560x1600 and higher), even the slowest DSL connection from across the country will work. The drawback is that these products are not free (but they both offer free evaluations). 

If you want a *free* display protocol, RDP is the best overall option (available on many different client device platforms) but there is also SPICE which I haven't seen used anywhere. Sounds like you're stuck with RDP if video playback is a requirement. Most other free options will not work well with video if RDP already does not work well enough. 

On Dec 6, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Eric Crist <ecrist at secure-computing.net> wrote:

> maybe virtual desktops aren't what you're really looking for?  those connections tend to be compressed, and the compression of the video, plus the compression of the remote desktop connection correlates to shit video playback.  couple that with added latency, and it's going to be a bad experience.  This isn't a hard and fast rule, but you need to consider how things will be used.
> 
> -----
> Eric F Crist
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:49:51, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> 
>> The desktops would need to be windows. Our main issue is how poor video plays over an RDP session. Have not played with actual virtual desktops, but was hoping it would do better with graphics.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/6/2012 1:46 PM, Eric Crist wrote:
>>> VNC + X11?
>>> -----
>>> Eric F Crist
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 6, 2012, at 13:37:57, Raymond Norton<admin at lctn.org>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> We would like to toy around with virtual desktops and don't want to make an investment in something like VMware View . Is there an open source solution that people are happy with?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Dec  6 15:56:38 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:56:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212061554350.30121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 6 Dec 2012, Raymond Norton wrote:

> We would like to toy around with virtual desktops and don't want to make 
> an investment in something like VMware View . Is there an open source 
> solution that people are happy with?

I have run Virtual Box under Ubuntu to run Windows.  It worked very well. 
Just remember to not leave it running indefinitely because it eventually 
fails, just as Windows always needs a reboot, and it can mess things up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualBox

Mike

From badgerea at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  6 20:08:36 2012
From: badgerea at hotmail.com (Eric Badger)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 20:08:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <50C0F8E2.5040401@lctn.org>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
	<B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>
	<50C0F6DF.8080507@lctn.org>,
	<1D4BE47E-7659-4179-AA9F-078886EED830@secure-computing.net>,
	<50C0F8E2.5040401@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <SNT002-W92779FD35300D3752AC117DC440@phx.gbl>

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 13:58:26 -0600
> From: admin at lctn.org
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
>
> I appreciate the feed back.
>
> The project is for a school. They seemed to like the idea of the compact
> size of a thin client. After showing them the way video plays, they were
> sure that would not work. I recommended a fanless unit , like a Zotac
> box that they could strapped on the back of a monitor. Seems like that
> would work, but they were hoping to see how VDs would work before making
> a decision.

If you already have MS server licenses for other stuff, Hyper-V + RemoteFX would be a 'free' way to get decent video performance (assuming you have hardware on the server end that meets the requirements: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff817602%28v=ws.10%29.aspx).

You'd still end up needing to buy RemoteFX capable thin clients though, which would probably end up being similar in cost to the Zotacs.

SPICE is probably the only real open source option, but the community seems kind of weak. I'd be interested to hear the results if you do give it a try. 

Eric 		 	   		  

From brockn at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 08:38:45 2012
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 08:38:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: 5 identical computers used as home servers
Message-ID: <CAHCAor7QqUweue6HqrdZsKKu0EydYATC=M_m68zTS-ne8OFuXA@mail.gmail.com>

I am selling 5 computers, all identical.

Case: Mini ITX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811121114
Motherboard: Intel BOXD510MO Intel Atom D510 Intel NM10 Mini ITX
Motherboard/CPU Combo
Ram: Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Hard Drive:  Seagate Barracuda LP ST32000542AS 2TB 5900 RPM SATA
3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive

Included: One 17" Acer monitor

I'd like to sell them as a lot. Once machine doesn't boot but I
haven't tried to figure out why.

I paid $1,400 for this brand new about 1.5 years ago. I am looking for
your best offer.

Brock

From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 10:25:41 2012
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 10:25:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Virtual Desktop
In-Reply-To: <SNT002-W92779FD35300D3752AC117DC440@phx.gbl>
References: <50C0F415.7050100@lctn.org>
	<B1CAD207-4182-4648-8B60-7C29A946C305@secure-computing.net>
	<50C0F6DF.8080507@lctn.org>
	<1D4BE47E-7659-4179-AA9F-078886EED830@secure-computing.net>
	<50C0F8E2.5040401@lctn.org>
	<SNT002-W92779FD35300D3752AC117DC440@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMh5oVopXikLZhwPGwLxj2tiL+GNuGb5r4p03VmPufwN6JY4QQ@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't looked into this much, but RedHat does have a VDI product.
http://www.redhat.com/products/virtualization/desktop We've kicked around
the idea a bit here as we're already using RedHat or CentOS for our
virtualization infrastructure. Sorry I don't know the details, I'm
currently one level removed from the hypervisor. I just request virtual
servers and deal with them from there. :)

--
Andrew Zbikowski
http://andy.zibnet.us/
Don't panic and carry a towel.
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri Dec  7 14:05:49 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 14:05:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjvE_seREBN4sVSX+m0d0OCTdfE2E1waD18ywEE+=YNs0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjvE_seREBN4sVSX+m0d0OCTdfE2E1waD18ywEE+=YNs0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08ovg7wZfVJUKgrZUDxYSV+QAfZK3akCNCH5Ocguj99Z6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm working on an on line code generator that's implemented
> as a 3-tier system.  The data passed between the middle and
> back tiers includes files --
> http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
> .  I'm starting to use tunneling to encrypt the messages between
> the back and middle tiers.  It would be helpful to see how others
> have documented and scripted their use of ssh tunneling with
> their service.

For a service like this, it's quite likely that IPSec is a better
solution. SSH is great for one-off administrative things, when you
have control over both ends of the tunnel. For offering services to
customers, though, I'd greatly prefer IPSec, likely in transport mode.
Using IPSec will enable you to implement access control and routing
rules much easier than by using SSH tunnels.

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 14:56:59 2012
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 14:56:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Setting up video Media Center equivalent in Linux,
	looking for some help!
Message-ID: <CACEdYO3QVaoU75p+3TunBOp50GHWqmdZsNXNnoDmuHyBhe+zAA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm newish to the Linux PVR or Media Center world and have been
putting off this goal of mine off for some time. I have a desktop
computer that feeds to our TV which is mounted on wall. The computer
acts as a DVD player (got rid of the standalone player when it died)
as well as holds our digital movie and music collection on an
integrated NAS. Typically I've used Windows Media Center and VLC for
playing movies, but with a new system build went to Windows 8 for
costs reasons (kept the Linux install- works fine on new system!).
Windows 8 means means no Media Center anymore, which I didn't love and
hate having to reboot to Windows for all of the time. I also have a
cheap HP media remote I found online that works great in Windows and
Linux.

Watching movies for my family has meant me publishing a page document
for the mostly non-technical people in the house to follow which
entails turning on the TV, changing the resolution in Windows, making
sure the correct audio device is set up, and then launching VLC or
back to the TV remote and starting Media Center with the push of
button. I've put this off for a year, but I'd like to do this all in
Linux with something like XBMC (which I love so far testing it out- it
detects the movies in our library and DVDs), VLC on occasion, or
another solution recommended by LUGers who have experience with media
center options in Linux.

So, here is what I am able to do so far:
* Map media button on remote in XFCE to XBMC
* Video rendering works flawlessly in VLC and XBMC
* Library management is sweet with XBMC!

Here is what I need help with:
* Get NVIDIA Geforce 550 ti to play high quality HDMI audio like it
does in Windows (it crackles like crazy in Linux) and set up audio
with script in next item below. My last NVIDIA card had the same sound
crackles in Linux.
* Make BASH script that changes resolution and mirrors (like TwinView)
DVI monitor and HDMI TV, with xrandr or other CLI tool, to 1280x720
and then launch media player (I can script well, just need to know
what options to pass to alter the video and audio components).
* Have another script that disables the TV output and sets the desktop
resolution back to native. I will either map this on the remote, run
on media center exit, or have an icon on the desktop.
* I don't see a 1280x720 option in XBMC; haven't done a ton of
research but found something about this perhaps being a theme problem.
1080 is not an option for my computer monitor, nor does the tv support
1080p (I'd like to mirror these at the same resolution, NVIDIA
graphics tear for the dumbest of causes in Linux and Windows).

Some more info on the the graphics card with HDMI-
lspci output:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF116 [GeForce
GTX 550 Ti] (rev a1)
01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GF116 High Definition Audio
Controller (rev a1)
Using Alsa and PulseAudio for audio.

I use the proprietary NVIDIA drivers but am not opposed to going back
to nouveau / open source if that works better. I am testing the Steam
Linux beta and can work out switching back when needed.

Some more system specs:
OS: Arch Linux x86_64
Kernel Release: 3.6.9-2-ck
WM: Xfwm
DE: Xfce
RAM: 2024 MB / 32049 MB
Processor Type: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz

The RAM is not a typo, it's cheap and I'm obsessed with RAM disks and
this package https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/Anything-sync-daemon/.

Anyho, if someone has some experience with like hardware or helpful
tips for me, please respond, I'd be much thankful for some help on
this project! I've found some tips via Google on the audio crackling
for the NVIDIA card, however nothing has gotten it to work how it
should.

Thanks and happy holidays!

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 15:19:55 2012
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 15:19:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Setting up video Media Center equivalent in Linux,
 looking for some help!
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO3QVaoU75p+3TunBOp50GHWqmdZsNXNnoDmuHyBhe+zAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO3QVaoU75p+3TunBOp50GHWqmdZsNXNnoDmuHyBhe+zAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KU6dR=-rideicbFq1JxdNWh4mn9rhxkapZteS_26vuT6w@mail.gmail.com>

> Here is what I need help with:
> * Get NVIDIA Geforce 550 ti to play high quality HDMI audio like it
> does in Windows (it crackles like crazy in Linux) and set up audio
> with script in next item below. My last NVIDIA card had the same sound
> crackles in Linux.

Would a work around be acceptable? Can you run an audio cable separate
from the HDMI?

> * Make BASH script that changes resolution and mirrors (like TwinView)
> DVI monitor and HDMI TV, with xrandr or other CLI tool, to 1280x720
> and then launch media player (I can script well, just need to know
> what options to pass to alter the video and audio components).
> * Have another script that disables the TV output and sets the desktop
> resolution back to native. I will either map this on the remote, run
> on media center exit, or have an icon on the desktop.

If I were doing this, I would probably have my script either:

a) Switch between two monitors. With a single monitor at a time, it
may auto-detect the correct resolution
or
b) Always leave mirror mode on and just change the resolution (though
I do see your tearing comment below)


I have to reinstall Linux (new computer!) or I'd play around with
xrandr and try to give you more specifics

Last time I set up a media PC it was with VGA out and I had to set the
resolution in xorg.conf. If it comes to that and you need a mode line
for xorg.conf, the program you'll be looking for is gtf
(http://linux.die.net/man/1/gtf). It took me forever to find that last
time, but hopefully you won't need it at all.

--
Michael

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Mon Dec 10 22:13:13 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:13:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Moving Windows partion to a virtual disk image?
In-Reply-To: <CANNReEF=+ERZOtAS8riZ8z8fAJzH1gx+j2J4uQ3hdYbDh06KRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50b908e5.0c0a650a.6982.61b4@mx.google.com>
	<CAMh5oVrWzQHAmYL3mfATiUKyP_AWvXZFA+f4Jmu3tLdjDP4Ofg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEGU=YpThe3WXJLhPg0=DTyYps3XamVcfUiWhGfU-2YpoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANoiwe6iHnL_0YhPd51y3q1B8JJ39Sbjiwo6Jr+4m8kwSjS0Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB3QoPme7cS3aO-vrOb9x2M=RZv-FPXQf80dcS24hZv9MqfZxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEF=+ERZOtAS8riZ8z8fAJzH1gx+j2J4uQ3hdYbDh06KRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=x4G4aG6etr_0yW71+uEkii0jmq6GpQ7F2oX2DzqcvGg@mail.gmail.com>

>> I've P2V'd quite a few machines using VMware convertor, I'd at least
>> give it a try.  Install the latest version of convertor on your
>> Windows machine, choose to convert it to Workstation (it will just
>> generate a set of files) and you should be able to import the .vmdk.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:
> I assume that means you need to use VMWare then?

Not at all.  The convertor tool is free and can export to multiple
sources, including VMWare workstation.  Virtualbox can import the
workstation files so without installing any other VMWare products, you
can use convertor to migrate into Virtualbox.

Brian

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Dec 11 11:29:21 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:29:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Maxtor_6L120P0
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Cn+qe+NapCWuZahcLsTOC7B2d3S12ycKooGAkzE_NR1Q@mail.gmail.com>

the Maxtor_6L120P0 is purportedly a 120gb disc, indeed the one i have
here says so on its label, however fdisc claims it only has 33.8 GB.
fdisk seems to have a command to change the number of cylinders, i
tried that, whereupon fdisk shows the given new number of cylinders,
but still shows the total number of sectors as unchanged, and won't
create a partition that goes beyond the original number of sectors, so
what's the point of the fdisk cylinders command, it's not at all clear
to me.  do i really have a 120gb disc here?  if so, how do i start
using all 120gb?  any clues/ideas?

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Tue Dec 11 11:41:00 2012
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:41:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Maxtor_6L120P0
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9Cn+qe+NapCWuZahcLsTOC7B2d3S12ycKooGAkzE_NR1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9Cn+qe+NapCWuZahcLsTOC7B2d3S12ycKooGAkzE_NR1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KXHBdP2sSgu9ozQvhqxnS1KpO4e2KkBap=7OhieybW-aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:29 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> the Maxtor_6L120P0 is purportedly a 120gb disc, indeed the one i have
> here says so on its label, however fdisc claims it only has 33.8 GB.
> fdisk seems to have a command to change the number of cylinders, i
> tried that, whereupon fdisk shows the given new number of cylinders,
> but still shows the total number of sectors as unchanged, and won't
> create a partition that goes beyond the original number of sectors, so
> what's the point of the fdisk cylinders command, it's not at all clear
> to me.  do i really have a 120gb disc here?  if so, how do i start
> using all 120gb?  any clues/ideas?

Are your jumpers on the right pins? Don't some disks have jumpers to
limit the size they report so that old BIOSes can handle them?

Also, google found something familiar
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1534455 (searched for
"33.8 gigs")
--
Michael

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 11 12:30:36 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:30:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Maxtor_6L120P0
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KXHBdP2sSgu9ozQvhqxnS1KpO4e2KkBap=7OhieybW-aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9Cn+qe+NapCWuZahcLsTOC7B2d3S12ycKooGAkzE_NR1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KXHBdP2sSgu9ozQvhqxnS1KpO4e2KkBap=7OhieybW-aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212111225590.1745@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Michael Moore wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:29 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>
>> the Maxtor_6L120P0 is purportedly a 120gb disc, indeed the one i have 
>> here says so on its label, however fdisc claims it only has 33.8 GB. 
>> fdisk seems to have a command to change the number of cylinders, i 
>> tried that, whereupon fdisk shows the given new number of cylinders, 
>> but still shows the total number of sectors as unchanged, and won't 
>> create a partition that goes beyond the original number of sectors, so 
>> what's the point of the fdisk cylinders command, it's not at all clear 
>> to me.  do i really have a 120gb disc here?  if so, how do i start 
>> using all 120gb?  any clues/ideas?
>
> Are your jumpers on the right pins? Don't some disks have jumpers to 
> limit the size they report so that old BIOSes can handle them?
>
> Also, google found something familiar
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1534455 (searched for
> "33.8 gigs")


Interesting -- there's a 32GB switch?  So, 32 GiB is...

$ echo "2^35" | octave -qfH
ans =  3.4360e+10

34.36 GB, which is a little more than what you see, probably because of 
some kind of overhead.  That's probably it -- jumpers on wrong pins.

Mike

From n0nas at amsat.org  Wed Dec 12 12:57:08 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:57:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Maxtor_6L120P0
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1355335201.14131.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1355335201.14131.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <50C8D384.70404@amsat.org>

The usual problem about the time that drive came out was too many old 
BIOS chips couldn't handle anything over 32GB. So all the drives came 
with software and jumpers that told it to emulate a drive with the 
maximum number of sectors for 32GB, but made them very large sectors to 
get the full drive storage. If you have an old computer you still might 
have the bad BIOS. Otherwise, check for jumpers. Good luck.

Doug.

tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote:
> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:30:36 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Maxtor_6L120P0
> Interesting -- there's a 32GB switch?  So, 32 GiB is...
>
> $ echo "2^35" | octave -qfH
> ans =  3.4360e+10
>
> 34.36 GB, which is a little more than what you see, probably because of
> some kind of overhead.  That's probably it -- jumpers on wrong pins.
>
> Mike

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Dec 13 06:34:34 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:34:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Maxtor_6L120P0
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KXHBdP2sSgu9ozQvhqxnS1KpO4e2KkBap=7OhieybW-aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9Cn+qe+NapCWuZahcLsTOC7B2d3S12ycKooGAkzE_NR1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KXHBdP2sSgu9ozQvhqxnS1KpO4e2KkBap=7OhieybW-aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9COrQNq016puHXO+usfd9pT9b6+aJ88P_cFm6Ox_OJgKw@mail.gmail.com>

>> the Maxtor_6L120P0 is purportedly a 120gb disc, indeed the one i have
>> here says so on its label, however fdisc claims it only has 33.8 GB.
>> fdisk seems to have a command to change the number of cylinders, i
>> tried that, whereupon fdisk shows the given new number of cylinders,
>> but still shows the total number of sectors as unchanged, and won't
>> create a partition that goes beyond the original number of sectors, so
>> what's the point of the fdisk cylinders command, it's not at all clear
>> to me.  do i really have a 120gb disc here?  if so, how do i start
>> using all 120gb?  any clues/ideas?
>
> Are your jumpers on the right pins? Don't some disks have jumpers to
> limit the size they report so that old BIOSes can handle them?
>
> Also, google found something familiar
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1534455 (searched for
> "33.8 gigs")

yeah that was the first thing i checked, there is a jumper spot
labeled "cap lim".  but, no jumper there.  further fiddling with
google finally found a recommendation that hdat2 fixed such a problem.
 trying to boot hdat2 with memdisk got problems that sure looked like
memdisk doesn't really work, but memdisk booted ubcd511.iso just fine,
and the hdat2 in there removed the HPA from the drive in a jiffy.
yay!

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Dec 13 13:04:41 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:04:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] what's best?
In-Reply-To: <4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com>
References: <CAD+dB9D-MnBgU59wrUqq+APqPm6OcF4VEy9gbTDU=5PePD9LQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F9D9A18.7050303@pinenet.com>
	<CAOOsjE-aQYoH3qFabnH3428jwRFdzX+TZCmVYRAZwsa+76y90w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F9DF26D.6080406@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CRwJg8UezuqQCCfeYUsNmpxh+8pbjOYA91B6fRXb77Eg@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 April 2012 21:01, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> It is worth a look to see how much is available in opensuse.

anything to rally edubuntu and/or ubuntustudio?

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 13:45:23 2012
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:45:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtND0Rmw0XwW-GmfHWB032oePCzJkibMzO=bv25mmcPtA@mail.gmail.com>

Erik Anderson:

> For a service like this, it's quite likely that IPSec is a better
> solution. SSH is great for one-off administrative things, when you
> have control over both ends of the tunnel. For offering services to
> customers, though, I'd greatly prefer IPSec, likely in transport mode.
> Using IPSec will enable you to implement access control and routing
> rules much easier than by using SSH tunnels.


>From reading more about this I agree that using SSH tunneling has
some weaknesses in this context.  But IPSec looks difficult to learn
and administer.  I'm not sure why Github uses SSH tunneling rather
than an alternative.  Maybe using SSH tunneling doesn't hurt them
that much yet.


-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises  -- so far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net
(651) 251-9384
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 23:09:18 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:09:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I found an HP Pavilion g7-2022us for $500, which seems like a good-enough 
deal, but I plan to just overwrite the Windows OS with Ubuntu.  I'm 
wondering if any of you have experience with these HP Pavilions.  Do they 
run OK with Ubuntu or other Linuxes?  Are there any sticking points?

TIA.

Mike


From stuporglue at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 23:24:48 2012
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:24:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KVNweyRVb-ZrjhjvQ7+x+SM99P3zP-ah9xrcTr_HeQr+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> I found an HP Pavilion g7-2022us for $500, which seems like a good-enough
> deal, but I plan to just overwrite the Windows OS with Ubuntu.  I'm
> wondering if any of you have experience with these HP Pavilions.  Do they
> run OK with Ubuntu or other Linuxes?  Are there any sticking points?

My last laptop was an HP Pavilion dv7t-4100.

Linux-wise, it was great. No problems with Linux or drivers.

The computer itself was terrible.  I had one hinge replaced once under
warranty, and at about 20 months it was starting to get loose again
when I bought a new laptop.

It always had problems with overheating and extremely loud fans. I
couldn't even rip DVDs with handbrake because encoding to H.264 would
make it overheat and shut down. This wasn't a Linux issue -- same
problem existed in Windows and Linux.

Some letters on the keyboard wore off in just over a year, and a one
of the keyboard spring broke through normal use.


I have a hard time believing that they're all as crummy as the one I
ended up with but I wasn't happy with it and I will never buy an HP
laptop again. My P4 HP desktop is 5 or 6 years old now and still
running strong though.

--
Michael Moore

From shaneisageek at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 07:41:46 2012
From: shaneisageek at gmail.com (Shane Lambert)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 07:41:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>

I have been using an HP dv7 2022 at work for almost a year now. Works fine
under Ubuntu if you make sure to have the correct video drivers. Mine
detected the wrong one and I had to manually install the correct driver.

The fan can be loud under extreme load but I have never had mine shut down.
Every so often though the machine will not shut down normally and I have to
froce it to shut down. I like that it has a second drive bay in it which
now has a solid state drive. Beware, last I checked, memory for these is on
the high side.
On Dec 13, 2012 11:09 PM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> I found an HP Pavilion g7-2022us for $500, which seems like a good-enough
> deal, but I plan to just overwrite the Windows OS with Ubuntu.  I'm
> wondering if any of you have experience with these HP Pavilions.  Do they
> run OK with Ubuntu or other Linuxes?  Are there any sticking points?
>
> TIA.
>
> Mike
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 09:32:40 2012
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:32:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>

These usually run great with linux. I work a lot with Pavilions and
EliteBooks at work running linux. ATI mobility gpu can cause
intermittent issues with screen flickering in linux with the os
drivers (and in the BIOS on some, I think it's defect)- looks like you
have an Intel GPU on that one, which should work just fine with
Ubuntu.

Personally I'd recommend Dell or Toshiba over HP- they tend to be
better built enclosures. My wife still has an Inspirion 6000 (P4) that
is 10 years old and still runs fine (replaced HD once a year ago,
added RAM, and swapped the keyboard once over the years). Not only
that, but at my last job we were sending HP Pavilion laptops back
constantly because the plastic falls apart within a year of light to
medium use.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com



On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Shane Lambert <shaneisageek at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have been using an HP dv7 2022 at work for almost a year now. Works fine under Ubuntu if you make sure to have the correct video drivers. Mine detected the wrong one and I had to manually install the correct driver.
>
> The fan can be loud under extreme load but I have never had mine shut down. Every so often though the machine will not shut down normally and I have to froce it to shut down. I like that it has a second drive bay in it which now has a solid state drive. Beware, last I checked, memory for these is on the high side.
>
> On Dec 13, 2012 11:09 PM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I found an HP Pavilion g7-2022us for $500, which seems like a good-enough deal, but I plan to just overwrite the Windows OS with Ubuntu.  I'm wondering if any of you have experience with these HP Pavilions.  Do they run OK with Ubuntu or other Linuxes?  Are there any sticking points?
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 09:38:40 2012
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:38:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Setting up video Media Center equivalent in Linux,
 looking for some help!
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KU6dR=-rideicbFq1JxdNWh4mn9rhxkapZteS_26vuT6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO3QVaoU75p+3TunBOp50GHWqmdZsNXNnoDmuHyBhe+zAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KU6dR=-rideicbFq1JxdNWh4mn9rhxkapZteS_26vuT6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2iS20kfD0v6TEJN9i+uHkJ6DhZpmpNiNyomhG3RDFBkg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the response.

I could split my audio but that means more playing with the TV to get
another audio feed in with the HDMI picture.

I'm working on getting my HDMI audio issue resolved, it hasn't been
very pleasant but I should get there eventually.

I've been able to get the resolution change (working on getting both
displays to the resolution I want) via CLI, so all I really need to do
is get audio working and finish up the script.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com



On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Here is what I need help with:
> > * Get NVIDIA Geforce 550 ti to play high quality HDMI audio like it
> > does in Windows (it crackles like crazy in Linux) and set up audio
> > with script in next item below. My last NVIDIA card had the same sound
> > crackles in Linux.
>
> Would a work around be acceptable? Can you run an audio cable separate
> from the HDMI?
>
> > * Make BASH script that changes resolution and mirrors (like TwinView)
> > DVI monitor and HDMI TV, with xrandr or other CLI tool, to 1280x720
> > and then launch media player (I can script well, just need to know
> > what options to pass to alter the video and audio components).
> > * Have another script that disables the TV output and sets the desktop
> > resolution back to native. I will either map this on the remote, run
> > on media center exit, or have an icon on the desktop.
>
> If I were doing this, I would probably have my script either:
>
> a) Switch between two monitors. With a single monitor at a time, it
> may auto-detect the correct resolution
> or
> b) Always leave mirror mode on and just change the resolution (though
> I do see your tearing comment below)
>
>
> I have to reinstall Linux (new computer!) or I'd play around with
> xrandr and try to give you more specifics
>
> Last time I set up a media PC it was with VGA out and I had to set the
> resolution in xorg.conf. If it comes to that and you need a mode line
> for xorg.conf, the program you'll be looking for is gtf
> (http://linux.die.net/man/1/gtf). It took me forever to find that last
> time, but hopefully you won't need it at all.
>
> --
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From harlan at bloomenterprises.org  Fri Dec 14 09:05:22 2012
From: harlan at bloomenterprises.org (Harlan H. Bloom)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 09:05:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KVNweyRVb-ZrjhjvQ7+x+SM99P3zP-ah9xrcTr_HeQr+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>

I'm not sure about the specific model you mention Mike (Miller). I've had several HP laptops over the years. HP's in general seem to be very good about running Linux. Overheating is most certainly one of the biggest problems that I've seen. We've had at least 5 HP laptops, and only had a hardware failure (exhaust fan which I fixed, that was on the windoze laptop). 

Overall, I prefer HP's to some other manufacturers because of Linux, Ubuntu in particular, seems to work better with far less hassles. 

Just my 2 cents... 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Michael Moore" <stuporglue at gmail.com> 
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:24:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux 

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote: 
> I found an HP Pavilion g7-2022us for $500, which seems like a good-enough 
> deal, but I plan to just overwrite the Windows OS with Ubuntu. I'm 
> wondering if any of you have experience with these HP Pavilions. Do they 
> run OK with Ubuntu or other Linuxes? Are there any sticking points? 

My last laptop was an HP Pavilion dv7t-4100. 

Linux-wise, it was great. No problems with Linux or drivers. 

The computer itself was terrible. I had one hinge replaced once under 
warranty, and at about 20 months it was starting to get loose again 
when I bought a new laptop. 

It always had problems with overheating and extremely loud fans. I 
couldn't even rip DVDs with handbrake because encoding to H.264 would 
make it overheat and shut down. This wasn't a Linux issue -- same 
problem existed in Windows and Linux. 

Some letters on the keyboard wore off in just over a year, and a one 
of the keyboard spring broke through normal use. 


I have a hard time believing that they're all as crummy as the one I 
ended up with but I wasn't happy with it and I will never buy an HP 
laptop again. My P4 HP desktop is 5 or 6 years old now and still 
running strong though. 

-- 
Michael Moore 
_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 11:13:29 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:13:29 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
References: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Thanks for all the tips on the HP laptops.  The problems with general 
flimsiness and loud, unstoppable fans are also reflected in these comments 
(on the model I'm considering):

http://www.amazon.com/HP-G7-2022us-LED-Backlit-Processor-Technology/product-reviews/B008QDJUI6/

When I see two comments in two days both essentially saying "I don't know 
what those other guys are talking about," I wonder if HP put them up to 
it.

I still have an old Dell Latitude D800 from 10 years ago that works today. 
It cost almost $3000 back then!  So durability and longevity are 
important.

Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 11:30:19 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:30:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <FBE7F7E4-C786-4CA1-BA14-1FF1342C9B57@gmail.com>

I've never liked HPs build quality.  

-Rob



On Dec 14, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the tips on the HP laptops.  The problems with general flimsiness and loud, unstoppable fans are also reflected in these comments (on the model I'm considering):
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/HP-G7-2022us-LED-Backlit-Processor-Technology/product-reviews/B008QDJUI6/
> 
> When I see two comments in two days both essentially saying "I don't know what those other guys are talking about," I wonder if HP put them up to it.
> 
> I still have an old Dell Latitude D800 from 10 years ago that works today. It cost almost $3000 back then!  So durability and longevity are important.
> 
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From eric.schultz at mchsi.com  Fri Dec 14 11:36:07 2012
From: eric.schultz at mchsi.com (eric.schultz at mchsi.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:36:07 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <2104139965.8837731355506567120.JavaMail.root@dsmdc-mail-mbs12>

Ubuntu installs great on HP or Dell.  I have Ubuntu, Centos 5.2, Linux Mint 11 on my laptops...on HP 6910's, Dell Lattitue D630 & D410.  They work great.

Eric
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:13:29 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux

Thanks for all the tips on the HP laptops.  The problems with general 
flimsiness and loud, unstoppable fans are also reflected in these comments 
(on the model I'm considering):

http://www.amazon.com/HP-G7-2022us-LED-Backlit-Processor-Technology/product-reviews/B008QDJUI6/

When I see two comments in two days both essentially saying "I don't know 
what those other guys are talking about," I wonder if HP put them up to 
it.

I still have an old Dell Latitude D800 from 10 years ago that works today. 
It cost almost $3000 back then!  So durability and longevity are 
important.

Mike
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 14 15:51:00 2012
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:51:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu><CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy
> MountainJohnson
>
> Personally I'd recommend Dell or Toshiba over HP- they tend
> to be better built enclosures. My wife still has an Inspiron
> 6000 (P4) that is 10 years old and still runs fine (replaced
> HD once a year ago, added RAM, and swapped the keyboard once
> over the years). Not only that, but at my last job we were
> sending HP Pavilion laptops back constantly because the
> plastic falls apart within a year of light to medium use.

I gotta agree strongly.  HP does not apply the same mechanical durability
specs that Dell does.  Dell  pro line laptops (eg, Latitude D & E series,
etc) are actually designed to be road warrior machines, and the product
lines (not individual machines) are actually tested to survive published
specs.  HP does none of that.  My last HP (2000) popped ball bonds on the
CPU several times, requiring motherboard replacements.  The mechanical
design lacked proper support to dampen vibrations in the motherboard.  An
employer back then required me to use their Dell Latitude and I discovered
the spec difference in episodes of HP repairs.  I had other issues with the
HP as well.  Had to contact HP product support in France to get some Linux
drivers because Linux was not fully supported in the USA then.   HP is not
the top brand it once was!


Chuck




From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 14 16:01:02 2012
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:01:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <2B24B8362D784B1794D4B3C118AD77D9@d830a>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:13 AM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
>
>
> I still have an old Dell Latitude D800 from 10 years ago that
> works today.
> It cost almost $3000 back then!  So durability and longevity
> are important.

I recently bought two D830 dual core lease return laptops for about $140 and
am VERY happy with them.  2.2 Ghz dual core CPUs, 4G RAM, and I added 750Gb
hard drives.  These have all the bay, docking, and tilt stand options that
are interchangeable back to D800s, etc.  My D810s are still doing fine, but
I wanted more and newer, yet retaining my accessory compatibility and
DURABILITY.  The new E series uses different accessories that are not as
economical, nor as available on the used market, and the spec differences
are minimal IMHO.


Chuck




From stuporglue at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 16:05:35 2012
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:05:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <2B24B8362D784B1794D4B3C118AD77D9@d830a>
References: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<2B24B8362D784B1794D4B3C118AD77D9@d830a>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KWAjif9A1M64TtCTWanzkkJcHQ9LqfmY+HWVRk=651p3Q@mail.gmail.com>

One thing Mike mentioned in the first post in this thread was that the
laptops were only about $500. It sounds like there's a lot of
consensus that there are better laptops out there than HPs, but if
he's looking in the $500 range are any of these things options?

I'm real happy with the ThinkPad I got to replace my HP Pavilion, but
it wasn't close to $500.

Mike -- how important is the $500 part?

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Fri Dec 14 16:03:52 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 16:03:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
Message-ID: <1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>

On Fri, 2012-12-14 at 15:51 -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> My last HP (2000) popped ball bonds on the
> CPU several times, requiring motherboard replacements.  The mechanical
> design lacked proper support to dampen vibrations in the motherboard.  An
> employer back then required me to use their Dell Latitude and I discovered
> the spec difference in episodes of HP repairs.  I had other issues with the
> HP as well.  Had to contact HP product support in France to get some Linux
> drivers because Linux was not fully supported in the USA then.   HP is not
> the top brand it once was!

Having no opinion myself on comparing Dell and HP... your time frame of
Y2k seems a bit antiquated... in computer/Internet terms 12+ years is
ancient stuff, I am sure a lot has changed with both Dell and HP since
then.



From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 14 17:28:19 2012
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 17:28:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu><CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com><CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com><8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
	<1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Justin Krejci
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:04 PM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
>
> On Fri, 2012-12-14 at 15:51 -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
> > My last HP (2000) popped ball bonds on the CPU several times,
> > requiring motherboard replacements.  The mechanical design lacked
> > proper support to dampen vibrations in the motherboard.  An
> employer
> > back then required me to use their Dell Latitude and I
> discovered the
> > spec difference in episodes of HP repairs.  I had other issues with
> > the HP as well.  Had to contact HP product support in
> France to get some Linux
> > drivers because Linux was not fully supported in the USA
> then.   HP is not
> > the top brand it once was!
>
> Having no opinion myself on comparing Dell and HP... your
> time frame of Y2k seems a bit antiquated... in
> computer/Internet terms 12+ years is ancient stuff, I am sure
> a lot has changed with both Dell and HP since then.

Yes: HP Corp and products have gone downhill since then.  Check your data,
and rely less on your various opinions.  My initial discovery of the HP
shoddy design and lacking mechanical / environmental product line specs was
long ago, but it has not been fixed, and Dell remains the superior pro
gear... by spec, by enduring performance, and by market share.  For a laptop
that sits around or is only carried about within the office, it doesn't
matter much, and HP seems fine in that context, but not for durable
transport, etc.


Chuck




From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Dec 14 19:31:34 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 19:31:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] bus blitzer
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DFiKNg-exz2=6g-EASQigiLK-8_kpGj7a4P=56fOyXtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BVt2Xrom=a=W6Dvai0VRiAvo1qwMH2_arPPHuPc11brw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9DFiKNg-exz2=6g-EASQigiLK-8_kpGj7a4P=56fOyXtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AtEwoVbNNUVsEjQ01ggvjgPo0y3OjMaGZ+L2UuG-M6ww@mail.gmail.com>

in the 70s, where i was working (kurzweil computer products) the hardware
guys figured we could make processors cheaper, faster, with more memory
than the dg novas we were using, well we sure had issues with both flakey
soft&hardware, so i wrote a diagnostic..  pure memory testing would catch
some errors, but many more shook out once the disc dma was cranking.  are
things different now?  sure, computers can be wrong far faster..  so anyway
while it's nice for ubuntu to bundle a memory test, when my box starts
acting flakey, i find myself wishing for a diagnostic that really kicks
those busses hard.  any recommendations?
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 22:10:37 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:10:37 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212142200350.21040@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 14 Dec 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> Thanks for all the tips on the HP laptops.  The problems with general 
> flimsiness and loud, unstoppable fans are also reflected in these 
> comments (on the model I'm considering):
>
> http://www.amazon.com/HP-G7-2022us-LED-Backlit-Processor-Technology/product-reviews/B008QDJUI6/

A discovery about the fans:  There is an option in the BIOS: "Fan always 
on" which is set to <ENABLE> by default.  Change that and the fan only 
goes on when the computer heats up.

The fan sounds cheap.  The feel of the HP is cheap, plasticy.  The DVD 
drive platter seems weak, breakable.  It's not at all like the old Dell -- 
quite like you all have been saying.

I'm not impressed with it, but how much is it worth to get a tougher 
machine?  The thing is, I mostly use them when traveling, and I'm not 
doing that much traveling these days, so I'm not sure if I should spend 
more.  The only reason I'm looking at this machine is that my nice little 
Asus EEEpc netbook has such a small screen.  I do a lot with Xvnc set at 
1680x1050, but the Asus is only 1024x600 while the HP is 1600x900.  I'd 
love to have 1680x1050, which is what I run on most monitors, but I don't 
know of a laptop that has that native resolution.  Those with 1920x1080 
would be great, but they seem a lot pricier.

There is one other reason -- I have a newer Canon DSLR and I want to be 
able to process photos on the laptop (e.g., using ImageMagick's convert). 
The little Asus would be struggling with them, but I'm sure the HP would 
handle them quickly.

Mike

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Fri Dec 14 22:28:16 2012
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:28:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212142200350.21040@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <21241890.850.1355497516689.JavaMail.harlan@star8>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212141050470.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212142200350.21040@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CANNReEEqqhjvObb-50TprZPpWA9Y7KY6w+q8TVpLsMT1dEGi2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Mike,
I'm not sure how important processing power is for you. I purchased a
refurbished Thinkpad T61 off of eBay a little over a year ago, and I've
been very happy with it. It has a Core 2 Duo processor, and 2GB of RAM.

Here is one similar:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T61p-Notebook-2-4Ghz-2GB-RAM-100GB-HD-DVD-RW-nVidia-1680x1050-/170957588527?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item27cdddc82f

It has a 1680x1050 display.

The LCD market has gotten a little screwy in the past few years as TVs and
computer monitors have converged to use the same "glass." That's why you
see so much 1080 vertical resolution stuff. You used to be able to get 1200
vertical pixel stuff but now that's hard to find. I have a 24" display
that's 1920x1200 from a few years ago, that I paid $400 for. You just don't
see those anymore though. Hopefully with the retina displays we'll see
pixel densities go up again.

Anyway, if you're looking for something solid, with a good display,
consider one of those old T61s. You can find pretty good prices on them.

Good luck!

-Erik


On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Dec 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>  Thanks for all the tips on the HP laptops.  The problems with general
>> flimsiness and loud, unstoppable fans are also reflected in these comments
>> (on the model I'm considering):
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/HP-G7-**2022us-LED-Backlit-Processor-**
>> Technology/product-reviews/**B008QDJUI6/<http://www.amazon.com/HP-G7-2022us-LED-Backlit-Processor-Technology/product-reviews/B008QDJUI6/>
>>
>
> A discovery about the fans:  There is an option in the BIOS: "Fan always
> on" which is set to <ENABLE> by default.  Change that and the fan only goes
> on when the computer heats up.
>
> The fan sounds cheap.  The feel of the HP is cheap, plasticy.  The DVD
> drive platter seems weak, breakable.  It's not at all like the old Dell --
> quite like you all have been saying.
>
> I'm not impressed with it, but how much is it worth to get a tougher
> machine?  The thing is, I mostly use them when traveling, and I'm not doing
> that much traveling these days, so I'm not sure if I should spend more.
>  The only reason I'm looking at this machine is that my nice little Asus
> EEEpc netbook has such a small screen.  I do a lot with Xvnc set at
> 1680x1050, but the Asus is only 1024x600 while the HP is 1600x900.  I'd
> love to have 1680x1050, which is what I run on most monitors, but I don't
> know of a laptop that has that native resolution.  Those with 1920x1080
> would be great, but they seem a lot pricier.
>
> There is one other reason -- I have a newer Canon DSLR and I want to be
> able to process photos on the laptop (e.g., using ImageMagick's convert).
> The little Asus would be struggling with them, but I'm sure the HP would
> handle them quickly.
>
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
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From jima at beer.tclug.org  Fri Dec 14 23:48:19 2012
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:48:19 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu><CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com><CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com><8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
	<1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>
Message-ID: <50CC0F23.4070007@beer.tclug.org>

On 2012-12-14 16:28, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Justin Krejci
>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:04 PM
>> To: TCLUG Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
>>
>> On Fri, 2012-12-14 at 15:51 -0600, Chuck Cole wrote:
>>> My last HP (2000) popped ball bonds on the CPU several times,
>>> requiring motherboard replacements.  The mechanical design lacked
>>> proper support to dampen vibrations in the motherboard.  An
>> employer
>>> back then required me to use their Dell Latitude and I
>> discovered the
>>> spec difference in episodes of HP repairs.  I had other issues with
>>> the HP as well.  Had to contact HP product support in
>> France to get some Linux
>>> drivers because Linux was not fully supported in the USA
>> then.   HP is not
>>> the top brand it once was!
>>
>> Having no opinion myself on comparing Dell and HP... your
>> time frame of Y2k seems a bit antiquated... in
>> computer/Internet terms 12+ years is ancient stuff, I am sure
>> a lot has changed with both Dell and HP since then.
>
> Yes: HP Corp and products have gone downhill since then.  Check your data,
> and rely less on your various opinions.  My initial discovery of the HP
> shoddy design and lacking mechanical / environmental product line specs was
> long ago, but it has not been fixed, and Dell remains the superior pro
> gear... by spec, by enduring performance, and by market share.  For a laptop
> that sits around or is only carried about within the office, it doesn't
> matter much, and HP seems fine in that context, but not for durable
> transport, etc.

  OK, I'll bite.

  HP Pavilion laptops are consumer-grade.  I'm quite familiar with them; 
I've got a g7-1167dx to my right and my wife's dv7 something-or-other is 
in the other room.  The g7 is a bit flimsy, but I haven't done any 
damage to it in the 18 months I've owned it.  It's pretty 
Linux-friendly; it'll run Team Fortress 2 with no issues (on Fedora, 
which isn't even officially supported by Valve).  The dv7 has somewhat 
better build quality, but I seem to recall it's a bit more pricy.  (My 
wife asked me to note that she's harder on laptops than I am^H^H^H^Hmost 
people, and she hasn't managed to kill any of her last four HPs -- the 
older of which are still alive and well as other people's hand-me-downs.)

  Now, in terms of build quality, neither of these will stand up to an 
older Latitude -- because they're not in the same product category.  If 
you want to compare apples to apples, either look at Dell's Inspiron 
line (which, last I checked 2-3 years ago, felt even flimsier than my 
g7) or HP's EliteBook series.  Until you've tried one of those (which it 
sounds like you haven't), don't blow off HP's build quality -- you don't 
know what you're talking about.

  Granted, I'm not a full-time user of an EliteBook (although two of my 
team members are); my enterprise HP experience is mostly on the server 
side, where in my professional opinion Dell has really been falling 
behind (as well as in their business relationships, but that's another 
topic entirely).

  Regarding HP the corp: they've been doing some neat stuff with their 
server offerings (especially in the rack-dense realm), but I haven't 
seen anything particularly revolutionary from their laptop segment. 
(The EliteBooks are very nice, but not terribly ground-breaking, IMO.) 
Their storage BU seems to be somewhat schizophrenic, although the same 
could easily be said of Dell's.  Lenovo seems to be putting in more 
effort in the laptop/desktop market, that I've seen.  (I've gotta say, 
the Tiny is pretty dang awesome.)  I can't recall the last time I've 
been wowed by anything Dell's put out, though.  There may be a reason.

  In case anyone is growing suspicious: I don't work for HP, just a 
large company with a strange mix of Lenovo (laptops/desktops), HP 
(servers/laptops), and Dell (servers/desktops/laptops that haven't 
managed to get decommissioned yet).  My last employer was very much a 
Dell shop, mostly because they were the cheapest business-oriented 
vendor at the time; I've had the good luck to see the worst Dell has to 
offer.

  Any questions?

      Jima

From florin at iucha.net  Sat Dec 15 12:32:50 2012
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:32:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] bus blitzer
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AtEwoVbNNUVsEjQ01ggvjgPo0y3OjMaGZ+L2UuG-M6ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BVt2Xrom=a=W6Dvai0VRiAvo1qwMH2_arPPHuPc11brw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9DFiKNg-exz2=6g-EASQigiLK-8_kpGj7a4P=56fOyXtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AtEwoVbNNUVsEjQ01ggvjgPo0y3OjMaGZ+L2UuG-M6ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121215183250.GG31299@signbit.net>

On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 07:31:34PM -0600, gregrwm wrote:
> in the 70s, where i was working (kurzweil computer products) the hardware
> guys figured we could make processors cheaper, faster, with more memory
> than the dg novas we were using, well we sure had issues with both flakey
> soft&hardware, so i wrote a diagnostic..  pure memory testing would catch
> some errors, but many more shook out once the disc dma was cranking.  are
> things different now?  sure, computers can be wrong far faster..  so anyway
> while it's nice for ubuntu to bundle a memory test, when my box starts
> acting flakey, i find myself wishing for a diagnostic that really kicks
> those busses hard.  any recommendations?

First memtest86(+) then breakin[1].

Cheers,
florin

1: http://www.advancedclustering.com/software/breakin.html

-- 
Beware of software written by optimists!
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From dean at ripperd.com  Sun Dec 16 12:14:17 2012
From: dean at ripperd.com (Dean)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 12:14:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Server case FS
Message-ID: <50CE0F79.7070102@ripperd.com>

I have up for sale an Enlight SR506. Comes with a PSU but it is a pretty 
old one, you probably want to get a new one. Case didn't come with a 
PSU, and was $130 when new. Comes with a super old CD drive, you can 
throw it if you want :-)

This has 2x 4-drive NON-HOTSWAP drive bays. It could be ordered either 
way but I did not need hotswap in my home server.
I also do not have the rackmount conversion for it. You can probably 
find it if needed.

Form Factor ATX Tower
Main Board Size ATX (12" x 9.6") / CEB (12" x 10.5") / EEB (12" x 13")
HDD Bays 2 x 4*1" HS/Fixed HDD bays (Up to 8 HDD)
Drive Bays 3 x 5.25" Drive bays
Expansion Slot 7 x Standard PCI slot, support 2 x long card
Cooling Fan 1 x 120*38mm Fan for system
LED Indicators 1 x Power / 1 x HDD / 1 x Alarm / 2 x LAN / 1 x Fan Alarm
Switch 1 x Power / 1 x Reset
I/O Port 2 x USB Port
Dimensions (W x H x D) 212 x 450 x 550mm (Include plastic foot and bezel)
Security 1 x Key lock in front bezel
1 x Intrusion switch in rear panel
1 x Padlock loop in rear panel

Craiglist listing here has pictures: 
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/sys/3477721582.html

I was thinking $50.

Thanks,
Dean

From chrome at real-time.com  Mon Dec 17 08:08:01 2012
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:08:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <50CC0F23.4070007@beer.tclug.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
	<1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>
	<50CC0F23.4070007@beer.tclug.org>
Message-ID: <20121217140801.GZ80989@real-time.com>

On 12/14 10:48 , Jima wrote:
>  HP Pavilion laptops are consumer-grade.  
<snip>
>  Now, in terms of build quality, neither of these will stand up to
> an older Latitude -- because they're not in the same product
> category. 

I have limited experience with HP laptops, and even less so recently, but
based on what I've seen in the past, this is true. Most really big companies
will have one level of quality for one market, and another quality for
another market. (This is true even when it's not obvious - a DeWalt power
drill bought at Lowe's is not the same drill as one bought at Ace Hardware.
Some corners were cut to meet a price point, and the tool will wear out
sooner).

So we shouldn't make a blanket statement that 'all HP laptops are crap'. The
low-end ones probably are tho.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From admin at lctn.org  Mon Dec 17 08:24:32 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:24:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Network diagnostics
Message-ID: <50CF2B20.6000205@lctn.org>

I need to trouble shoot a flaky network that only has web managed 
switches (no cli). It has the feel like there is a loop or bad hardware 
on the network . Shares becoming inaccessible, APs stop responding to 
pings, etc..There is definitely something wrong, but not enough info to 
come to a conclusion. What is the best tool to use for diagnostics?


Raymond

From drue at therub.org  Mon Dec 17 08:24:29 2012
From: drue at therub.org (Dan Rue)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:24:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20121217140801.GZ80989@real-time.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
	<1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>
	<50CC0F23.4070007@beer.tclug.org>
	<20121217140801.GZ80989@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Rnpd6bRw0NPpcdi4E48xXdcFOf6BKTmDNz5vprdxLNxfp83Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

>  (This is true even when it's not obvious - a DeWalt power
> drill bought at Lowe's is not the same drill as one bought at Ace Hardware.
> Some corners were cut to meet a price point, and the tool will wear out
> sooner).
>

[citation needed]
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From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Mon Dec 17 08:33:28 2012
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:33:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <CA+Rnpd6bRw0NPpcdi4E48xXdcFOf6BKTmDNz5vprdxLNxfp83Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
	<1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>
	<50CC0F23.4070007@beer.tclug.org>
	<20121217140801.GZ80989@real-time.com>
	<CA+Rnpd6bRw0NPpcdi4E48xXdcFOf6BKTmDNz5vprdxLNxfp83Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEGzfAtBaM1uaCq-26Ss7enyhyM3Cqiv-FQeLx=T3v-WFw@mail.gmail.com>

This is why I only shop at Menard's.


On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Dan Rue <drue at therub.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
> chrome at real-time.com> wrote:
>
>>  (This is true even when it's not obvious - a DeWalt power
>> drill bought at Lowe's is not the same drill as one bought at Ace
>> Hardware.
>> Some corners were cut to meet a price point, and the tool will wear out
>> sooner).
>>
>
> [citation needed]
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Mon Dec 17 08:37:39 2012
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:37:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20121217140801.GZ80989@real-time.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
	<1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>
	<50CC0F23.4070007@beer.tclug.org>
	<20121217140801.GZ80989@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KUw--Zr-gg0krQ-_ZFC5Pkv2i8wV4jE+6cUsiV3Mm+OgQ@mail.gmail.com>

> So we shouldn't make a blanket statement that 'all HP laptops are crap'. The
> low-end ones probably are tho.

That's probably true, but it's very difficult to buy or recommend an
HP of any sort when the $1500* Pavilion dv7 I had was so poorly built.
I can understand a $500 laptop not being that well made, but at $1500
I have some expectations -- even on a consumer line of products.

(* Work paid for $1000 of it)

From chrome at real-time.com  Mon Dec 17 09:42:53 2012
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 10:42:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] HP Pavilions and Linux
In-Reply-To: <CA+Rnpd6bRw0NPpcdi4E48xXdcFOf6BKTmDNz5vprdxLNxfp83Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212132220160.8121@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAJAZqRxDnRuLhXvtXmjQQ1OqhfbGJ8Zfn3UE_Dj6EzHQ6WGUPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2jGu81QCJw40ex3k3jnJUTrbozw8u9Nf0cvLAXt-Ofxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8F02A7C9D3F64F1EBF070D745E0730D8@d830a>
	<1355522632.8202.110.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<3CFBECA93FF34E529ABD0366030434D4@d830a>
	<50CC0F23.4070007@beer.tclug.org>
	<20121217140801.GZ80989@real-time.com>
	<CA+Rnpd6bRw0NPpcdi4E48xXdcFOf6BKTmDNz5vprdxLNxfp83Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121217154253.GA80989@real-time.com>

On 12/17 08:24 , Dan Rue wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
> chrome at real-time.com> wrote:
> >  (This is true even when it's not obvious - a DeWalt power
> > drill bought at Lowe's is not the same drill as one bought at Ace Hardware.
> > Some corners were cut to meet a price point, and the tool will wear out
> > sooner).
> >
> 
> [citation needed]

This is what I was told by my locksmith who heard it from a DeWalt salesman,
and the locksmith said his experience with buying tools bore this out. The
tool from the big-box store is made with flimsier parts and looks the same
on the outside, but is more likely to break sooner.

No, that's not a scientific study; but I've heard plenty of similar stories
for products such as lawn mowers and mattresses. I think there's a
preponderance of evidence in favor of it.

That said, I shop at Lowe's for most things. I, like most people, don't use
my power tools often enough to wear them out.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Dec 17 16:23:39 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:23:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] vnc/rdesktop
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtND0Rmw0XwW-GmfHWB032oePCzJkibMzO=bv25mmcPtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtND0Rmw0XwW-GmfHWB032oePCzJkibMzO=bv25mmcPtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08q6a9NGotsU+gk2hu8pVQzVzWVp2WE5ZC9c0yZSL6AjBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> From reading more about this I agree that using SSH tunneling has
> some weaknesses in this context.  But IPSec looks difficult to learn
> and administer.  I'm not sure why Github uses SSH tunneling rather
> than an alternative.  Maybe using SSH tunneling doesn't hurt them
> that much yet.

IPSec is certainly more complex, but not ridiculously so. There are
guides and howtos aplenty on how to get IPSec configured in any of its
various modes. IPSec in transport mode is quite easy to set up, and
doesn't require any routing changes on either end of the connection.

As I see it, Github uses SSH tunneling for a couple reasons:

- git over ssh is the de-facto method of granting write access to a
repository. There are other means, but using ssh (along with the
well-understood key authentication) was, even before github was
founded, the most prevalent.
- ssh is significantly more simple to get going, especially when (as I
mentioned before) multiple operating systems are involved and you
don't have control over both ends of the tunnel.

So, to reiterate - SSH tunneling is perfect for short-lived, one-off
use cases, but for anything more long term, it's usually worth it to
bring up an IPSec tunnel.

-Erik

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Dec 17 20:35:42 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:35:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Network diagnostics
In-Reply-To: <50CF2B20.6000205@lctn.org>
References: <50CF2B20.6000205@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <CADdM08qdFOp8APB2KV9qVVuj1dZp__XHyFT_=uNt2_XH0an_4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> What is the best tool to use for diagnostics?

Well, sounds like a job for wireshark (packet capture). Alternatively,
you can use tcpdump to capture (something like this will write
captured packets out to packet.log: $ tcpdump -w packet.log).

Once you have a capture, you're going to need to know what to look
for, which is something of an art. If you have a loop in your network,
you'll likely see thousands and thousands of broadcast messages.
During typical network traffic, broadcast packets only account for a
small percentage of total traffic, but during a broadcast storm, these
packets will comprise the vast majority of packets you'll see.

Bummer that your switches are web-only, but hopefully you'll still be
able to get some good data out of them. Look for port errors, link
up/down messages, etc.

Try and narrow down the issue to a certain time, a certain combination
of client/server connections, etc.

-Erik

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 18 01:22:57 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 01:22:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] easiest install ever
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212180116220.6413@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I was very impressed with how easily I installed Ubuntu Desktop AMD64 
version 12.10 on the $500 HP laptop we've been talking about.  I used 
another Ubuntu box to download an ISO and make a bootable USB.  Then I 
booted the HP laptop with the USB stick and installed Ubuntu, killing 
Windows 7 (it was a refurb, so Win 7 instead of Win 8).  It found the 
wireless networks and used it to bring in updates.  It was super smooth -- 
never a problem.  Ubuntu has come a long way.

One annoyance:  Hibernate is disabled by default.  I used this page to get 
it fixed...

http://nikunjlahoti.com/2012/10/31/enable-hibernation-on-ubuntu-12-10/

...and that worked fine.  I don't know if there will be problems with any 
other parts.

Mike

From jeruvin at gmail.com  Tue Dec 18 01:27:36 2012
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 01:27:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] easiest install ever
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212180116220.6413@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212180116220.6413@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPnpKPmaG1Hx9963bTRKksf-rp=q4dO+wKuRATW4h-1NQRG79g@mail.gmail.com>

That is awesome. Gratz on the successful install.

Jason

On Tuesday, December 18, 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> I was very impressed with how easily I installed Ubuntu Desktop AMD64
> version 12.10 on the $500 HP laptop we've been talking about.  I used
> another Ubuntu box to download an ISO and make a bootable USB.  Then I
> booted the HP laptop with the USB stick and installed Ubuntu, killing
> Windows 7 (it was a refurb, so Win 7 instead of Win 8).  It found the
> wireless networks and used it to bring in updates.  It was super smooth --
> never a problem.  Ubuntu has come a long way.
>
> One annoyance:  Hibernate is disabled by default.  I used this page to get
> it fixed...
>
> http://nikunjlahoti.com/2012/**10/31/enable-hibernation-on-**ubuntu-12-10/<http://nikunjlahoti.com/2012/10/31/enable-hibernation-on-ubuntu-12-10/>
>
> ...and that worked fine.  I don't know if there will be problems with any
> other parts.
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>


-- 
jason
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Dec 23 23:48:48 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:48:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win 
7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is 
probably really pricey here.

Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 495 
MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?

I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill.  What 
else?

Mike

From joel.longanecker at gmail.com  Sun Dec 23 23:51:31 2012
From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:51:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOusT--p72nA-QaqX+beJQ72Yuoovr1FVATBuF8bCsHQSEWsaw@mail.gmail.com>

Puppy Linux?
On Dec 23, 2012 11:49 PM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win
> 7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is
> probably really pricey here.
>
> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 495
> MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?
>
> I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill.  What
> else?
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Dec 23 23:52:54 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:52:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232351360.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win 
> 7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is 
> probably really pricey here.
>
> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 
> 495 MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?
>
> I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill. 
> What else?


I forgot to add -- if it supports Spanish, that would help tremendously. 
In fact, if it can't do Spanish, I think I'll have to find something else. 
I don't know -- maybe all Linux distros are very language-friendly like 
Ubuntu.

Mike

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Mon Dec 24 00:22:24 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 00:22:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20121224002224.95f27a0ecd7f2a91f3b2048e@jasonhsu.com>

For a first-time Linux user with only 495 MB of RAM, I recommend Puppy Linux, antiX Linux, or (maybe) Linux Mint Debian Edition.  All three of these distros are well-established, user-friendly, and MUCH lighter than Ubuntu, which is now as heavy as Windows Vista/7.

Puppy Linux has great codec/driver support and runs on computers as old as the Windows 98 era, but its software repository is small.  Of course, this wouldn't be a concern for the average person on the street.  (The average person on the street isn't using Ruby on Rails, Octave, etc.)

antiX Linux runs on computers as old as the Windows 98 era and has a big software repository (fully Debian compatible), but it doesn't have the codec/driver support of Puppy Linux and Linux Mint.  So this isn't the distro for playing DVDs.

Linux Mint Debian Edition has a big software repository (fully Debian compatible) and has great codec/driver support but isn't as lightweight as Puppy Linux and antiX Linux.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:48:48 -0600 (CST)
Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win 
> 7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is 
> probably really pricey here.
> 
> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 495 
> MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?
> 
> I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill.  What 
> else?
> 
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 08:02:16 2012
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:02:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <20121224002224.95f27a0ecd7f2a91f3b2048e@jasonhsu.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<20121224002224.95f27a0ecd7f2a91f3b2048e@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KUX3wvjFOahV2Mym4uvB1SNvj0JNVP-dHUjTCDhGFvhAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> For a first-time Linux user with only 495 MB of RAM, I recommend Puppy Linux, antiX Linux, or (maybe) Linux Mint Debian Edition.  All three of these distros are well-established, user-friendly, and MUCH lighter than Ubuntu, which is now as heavy as Windows Vista/7.
>
> Puppy Linux has great codec/driver support and runs on computers as old as the Windows 98 era, but its software repository is small.  Of course, this wouldn't be a concern for the average person on the street.  (The average person on the street isn't using Ruby on Rails, Octave, etc.)

Straight up Debian might not be a bad choice either. Just make sure to
install one of the lightweight destkops instead of Gnome or KDE. LXDE,
XFCE, Fluxbox, etc. It has full Spanish support and of course, a
fantastic repository. It's also got plenty of online tutorials.

One other thing that may be helpful about Debian is that you can
download the Debian repositories on CD, so they can install what they
want without requiring a network connection.

--
Michael Moore

From lmclemens at comcast.net  Mon Dec 24 12:17:07 2012
From: lmclemens at comcast.net (Larry Clemens)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:17:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 96, Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1356372002.14944.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1356372002.14944.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <50D89C23.7040109@comcast.net>

I recently saw a suggestion for LUBUNTU as a lighterweight, but nearly 
full bodied distro.  (Sounds like a coffee brew!)  Larry Clemens
On 12/24/2012 12:00 PM, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. only 495 MB RAM -- what to install? (Mike Miller)
>     2. Re: only 495 MB RAM -- what to install? (Joel Longanecker)
>     3. Re: only 495 MB RAM -- what to install? (Mike Miller)
>     4. Re: only 495 MB RAM -- what to install? (Jason Hsu)
>     5. Re: only 495 MB RAM -- what to install? (Michael Moore)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:48:48 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win
> 7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is
> probably really pricey here.
>
> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 495
> MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?
>
> I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill.  What
> else?
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:51:31 -0600
> From: Joel Longanecker <joel.longanecker at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAOusT--p72nA-QaqX+beJQ72Yuoovr1FVATBuF8bCsHQSEWsaw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Puppy Linux?
> On Dec 23, 2012 11:49 PM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win
>> 7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is
>> probably really pricey here.
>>
>> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 495
>> MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?
>>
>> I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill.  What
>> else?
>>
>> Mike
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:52:54 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232351360.30939 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win
>> 7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is
>> probably really pricey here.
>>
>> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only
>> 495 MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?
>>
>> I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill.
>> What else?
>
> I forgot to add -- if it supports Spanish, that would help tremendously.
> In fact, if it can't do Spanish, I think I'll have to find something else.
> I don't know -- maybe all Linux distros are very language-friendly like
> Ubuntu.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 00:22:24 -0600
> From: Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
> Message-ID: <20121224002224.95f27a0ecd7f2a91f3b2048e at jasonhsu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> For a first-time Linux user with only 495 MB of RAM, I recommend Puppy Linux, antiX Linux, or (maybe) Linux Mint Debian Edition.  All three of these distros are well-established, user-friendly, and MUCH lighter than Ubuntu, which is now as heavy as Windows Vista/7.
>
> Puppy Linux has great codec/driver support and runs on computers as old as the Windows 98 era, but its software repository is small.  Of course, this wouldn't be a concern for the average person on the street.  (The average person on the street isn't using Ruby on Rails, Octave, etc.)
>
> antiX Linux runs on computers as old as the Windows 98 era and has a big software repository (fully Debian compatible), but it doesn't have the codec/driver support of Puppy Linux and Linux Mint.  So this isn't the distro for playing DVDs.
>
> Linux Mint Debian Edition has a big software repository (fully Debian compatible) and has great codec/driver support but isn't as lightweight as Puppy Linux and antiX Linux.
>
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:48:48 -0600 (CST)
> Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm visiting family in Ecuador.  A student's laptop is unusable with Win
>> 7, and I see that Win 7 requires 2x as much memory as he has.  Memory is
>> probably really pricey here.
>>
>> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 495
>> MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?
>>
>> I remember Jason Hsu's Swift Linux -- I suppose that fits the bill.  What
>> else?
>>
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Dec 24 17:29:22 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 17:29:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 96, Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <50D89C23.7040109@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1356372002.14944.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<50D89C23.7040109@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212241722340.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012, Larry Clemens wrote:

> I recently saw a suggestion for LUBUNTU as a lighterweight, but nearly full 
> bodied distro.  (Sounds like a coffee brew!)  Larry Clemens

[full digest deleted]

I tried Xubuntu, but had a problem.  The first problem was that it 
required pae in the kernel, but Pentium M doesn't have it.  So I found 
this web page...

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/11/how-to-install-ubuntu-1210-on-non-pae.html

...and used it to fix up my bootable USB stick.  Then I tried again.  This 
time it did not have a problem with pae, and it started showing the Ubuntu 
splash screen.  I thought I was in the clear, but then it stopped, went to 
text mode, showed busybox and said "unable to find a medium containing a 
live file system".

Now what?

I really wish [XL]Ubuntu hadn't forced us to have pae.  That's annoying. 
If they could have detected that and gone with the appropriate kernel, 
that would have been a lot better.

Mike

From kenlynes at usa.net  Mon Dec 24 21:20:35 2012
From: kenlynes at usa.net (Kenneth Lynes)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 21:20:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 96, Issue 22
Message-ID: <178qLyDTj6768S03.1356405635@web03.cms.usa.net>

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 25 01:13:03 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 01:13:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <178qLyDTj6768S03.1356405635@web03.cms.usa.net>
References: <178qLyDTj6768S03.1356405635@web03.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212250107341.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012, Kenneth Lynes wrote:

> I know that the person is not asking this, but it would seem that it 
> might be possible to bring along some ram for that laptop. I think that 
> ddr is probably used and it would be easy to find 512mb modules really 
> cheap now and bring a couple of them along so that the laptop could 
> actually run some program after booting up. 1gb ram would seem minimal 
> to run most anything - even on linux.

I'm in Ecuador.  I won't be back for a year, maybe two years.  I need to 
fix it now, so it's either live with the 495 MB RAM or buy more RAM here 
in Ecuador.  I might try that, but I don't expect the prices to be very 
reasonable.  Food is cheap here, but electronics are expensive.  Ecuador 
uses the US Dollar as its currency.

It looks like the Pentium M processor with it's missing pae is going to be 
troublesome.  Maybe I can go to an older version and get it to work.

Mike

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Tue Dec 25 09:15:57 2012
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 09:15:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212250107341.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <178qLyDTj6768S03.1356405635@web03.cms.usa.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212250107341.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KWt0EP7us4ZmP+sDObCZRYEWFZUqYezxFjFG+3aph1eOA@mail.gmail.com>

> It looks like the Pentium M processor with it's missing pae is going to be
> troublesome.  Maybe I can go to an older version and get it to work.

http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_debian.php
"Multi-core and multi-CPU support in 32-bit kernel
To guarantee compatibility with non-PAE processors, the 32-bit
versions of Linux Mint Debian come with a 486 kernel by default."

What kind of RAM does it use?
It's an older computer, so someone on the list might just have some
sitting around. I've got a couple sticks of laptop RAM here. If they
fit I'd be happy to send them somewhere they'd be used.
--
Michael

From john.meier at gmail.com  Tue Dec 25 10:19:01 2012
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:19:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KWt0EP7us4ZmP+sDObCZRYEWFZUqYezxFjFG+3aph1eOA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <178qLyDTj6768S03.1356405635@web03.cms.usa.net>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1212250107341.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAFE18KWt0EP7us4ZmP+sDObCZRYEWFZUqYezxFjFG+3aph1eOA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL0Bt0_mHnfqV4f6ghw-SLVFnLYYty6g8L3aF1BT8-1rmTR2Lg@mail.gmail.com>

> What kind of RAM does it use?
> It's an older computer, so someone on the list might just have some
> sitting around. I've got a couple sticks of laptop RAM here. If they
> fit I'd be happy to send them somewhere they'd be used.
> --
> Michael
>
>
Ditto on the RAM.
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Tue Dec 25 12:45:40 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:45:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=3exjEtr5=u4e+1N_cb70BhifA7zhDvD3vQ5_p9P20SQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 11:48 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ubuntu 12.10 says it requires 768 MB RAM.  What can run well with only 495
> MB RAM?  Does it have a good repository?

Debian still runs pretty well on 512MB, but you'll likely want to run
XFCE instead of Gnome.  Fedora now has an XFCE spin (likely in
response to Gnome 3 being..... challenging) but I don't know what its
requirement are.  Without the bloat of Gnome or KDE, Linux still runs
in a pretty small memory footprint.

Best of luck and Merry Christmas!

Brian

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Dec 25 15:18:36 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:18:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoP=3exjEtr5=u4e+1N_cb70BhifA7zhDvD3vQ5_p9P20SQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAB3QoP=3exjEtr5=u4e+1N_cb70BhifA7zhDvD3vQ5_p9P20SQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9A_uM66Pq49fM90=EOFn4Z5wbxx2cM7V0gkpuS5+q0j1Q@mail.gmail.com>

> I recently saw a suggestion for LUBUNTU as a lighterweight, but nearly full
> bodied distro.  (Sounds like a coffee brew!)  Larry Clemens

+1 at lubuntu(precise).

during bootup my 640MB box says:
Memory: 622564k/655360k available (5667k kernel code, 32344k reserved,
2747k data, 688k init, 0k highmem)
Detected 348.471 MHz processor.
Calibrating delay loop (skipped), value calculated using timer
frequency.. 696.94 BogoMIPS (lpj=348471)

browsing is an unreasonable test of patience on this box, all else
works reasonably (including browsing via vnc).   other boxes come and
go (to the scavenge pile) at a sorry rate, and this old compaq is
still my trusty fallback.

puppy is great when you need it but not really practical if you can do
any better.

i find lubuntu to be a realistic environment, ubuntu repos available
in entirety.

From kris.browne at me.com  Tue Dec 25 12:28:58 2012
From: kris.browne at me.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 12:28:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] To the reader with tiny ram
Message-ID: <828864FD-FC8A-4CCE-A258-D4DF96122E9E@me.com>

I know this is a Linix list, but there are things other than Linux that will thrive in that amount of RAM. NetBSD is notable for its minimal footprint, and Haiku is similarly low-resource friendly. 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?.          Kristopher Browne
?? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?.       kris.browne at mac.com
?Happy? ? ? ? ? ?.
??Holidays!? ? ??
  _?_? ? ? ? ? ? ?
/____?/ ??? ? ? ?
l??? |?| ? ? ? ? ?

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Dec 26 22:35:03 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 22:35:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] only 495 MB RAM -- what to install?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9A_uM66Pq49fM90=EOFn4Z5wbxx2cM7V0gkpuS5+q0j1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212232344400.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAB3QoP=3exjEtr5=u4e+1N_cb70BhifA7zhDvD3vQ5_p9P20SQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9A_uM66Pq49fM90=EOFn4Z5wbxx2cM7V0gkpuS5+q0j1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1212262227310.30939@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012, gregrwm wrote:

> puppy is great when you need it but not really practical if you can do 
> any better.
>
> i find lubuntu to be a realistic environment, ubuntu repos available in 
> entirety.

In the end, Lubuntu seemed like the best plan for me.  One reason was that 
I could make a bootable USB stick very easily from the .iso, but I wasn't 
sure I could get a blank CD-R nearly as easily here in Ecuador.  Lubuntu 
also fit the bill in other ways -- not too demanding of memory and 12.04 
still had a non-PAE kernel.  It took a few tries, but the USB Disk Creator 
finally worked and I was excited to install it.

After all that, I was unable to complete the install, which was running 
beautifully, because there was an error with the hard drive.  It wasn't 
able to write a file to the drive, so it stopped.  I guess it's a bad hard 
drive, too, on top of everything else.  It is not easy to get decent 
computers down here in Ecuador.

On the bright side -- off to the beach in the morning.  It should be in 
the 90s.

Mike

From nassarmu at beitsahour.net  Sun Dec 30 19:56:48 2012
From: nassarmu at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:56:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ARC-1120 RAID Card
Message-ID: <CAMg8xauoXqLMhyrFHEscGxB4bdWKYNYFu-E2bN+T=6q53=VGPg@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have an Areca ARC-1120 RAID controller that i can borrow for a
day or two to recover some data?
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