From josh at trutwins.homeip.net  Sun Jan  1 10:48:56 2012
From: josh at trutwins.homeip.net (Josh Trutwin)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:48:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] SGI O2 Was: Free stuff
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1112301150560.27377@Dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1112300320490.17118@Dragon>
	<20111230174517.GJ12090@styx.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1112301150560.27377@Dragon>
Message-ID: <20120101104856.0eab5124@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:52:29 -0600 (CST)
Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011, Florin Iucha wrote:
> 
> > I got NetBSD to run on mine at some point - and I know the OpenBSD
> > folks got it working as well.
> 
> I've got Linux running on MIPS hardware, but I really wanted IRIX
> on this thing. IRIX had some pretty cool visual demos that were
> just super cool, especially for the time, and I wanted to play with
> those. Anyone remember Electropaint?

Yeah, I do.  Cut my teeth on SGI.  Back in the day I was a student
worker at college for the Unix admin and we setup about 2 dozen O2's
and other SGI's, Indigo's and Indy's for CSCI and Physics.  I am
actually now the sys admin there and we still have two of these O2's
in the physics department.  Physics is always the last to cling to old
computer stuff.  :)  They were nifty boxes.  My first job out of
college was actually for a place doing development on SGI's, had one
of the big servers, an Origin.  I *might* have some IRIX cd's laying
around somewhere if you're interested.

Those were the days...

Happy new year,

Josh

From kris.browne at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 11:37:31 2012
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 11:37:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] SGI O2 Was: Free stuff
In-Reply-To: <20120101104856.0eab5124@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1112300320490.17118@Dragon>
	<20111230174517.GJ12090@styx.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1112301150560.27377@Dragon>
	<20120101104856.0eab5124@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <D6FC12DD-798E-4A75-AE50-214B39AD89AC@gmail.com>

I started my sysadmin career on Irix as well... In it's time, there was not much else which could touch it for large filesystems and fast IO.

I wish I'd had a way to keep (and I mean actually power and maintain) the Origin 2k I started with.... But who can fit something the size of a clothes washer and requires 2x240v to power.

Kris Browne
kris.browne at gmail.com
612-293-8394
http://www.google.com/profiles/kris.browne

"the least expensive, most bug-free line of code is the one you didn't have to write." - Steve Jobs

On Jan 1, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Josh Trutwin wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:52:29 -0600 (CST)
> Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011, Florin Iucha wrote:
>> 
>>> I got NetBSD to run on mine at some point - and I know the OpenBSD
>>> folks got it working as well.
>> 
>> I've got Linux running on MIPS hardware, but I really wanted IRIX
>> on this thing. IRIX had some pretty cool visual demos that were
>> just super cool, especially for the time, and I wanted to play with
>> those. Anyone remember Electropaint?
> 
> Yeah, I do.  Cut my teeth on SGI.  Back in the day I was a student
> worker at college for the Unix admin and we setup about 2 dozen O2's
> and other SGI's, Indigo's and Indy's for CSCI and Physics.  I am
> actually now the sys admin there and we still have two of these O2's
> in the physics department.  Physics is always the last to cling to old
> computer stuff.  :)  They were nifty boxes.  My first job out of
> college was actually for a place doing development on SGI's, had one
> of the big servers, an Origin.  I *might* have some IRIX cd's laying
> around somewhere if you're interested.
> 
> Those were the days...
> 
> Happy new year,
> 
> Josh
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From n0nas at amsat.org  Thu Jan  5 07:38:35 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 07:38:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Servers Free For The Interested (Phillip Crump)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.575.1325439464.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.575.1325439464.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4F05A7DB.3020304@amsat.org>

Hi Phil.

Did the free servers go away yet? I sent an email on the 1st but have 
seen no reply.

Doug Reed.
cell. 612.386.9096

tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote:
>     5. Servers Free For The Interested (Phillip Crump)

From pjcrump at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 11:03:28 2012
From: pjcrump at gmail.com (Phillip Crump)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 11:03:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Servers Free For The Interested (Phillip Crump)
In-Reply-To: <4F05A7DB.3020304@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.575.1325439464.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F05A7DB.3020304@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CAHX0SzpM8qFdh4XacU2O_k8M0dY0Sg9kMnpE+O-h5uNCAOr6UQ@mail.gmail.com>

I had a guy who was going to take them then he did not respond to email..
You still want them?

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> wrote:

> Hi Phil.
>
> Did the free servers go away yet? I sent an email on the 1st but have seen
> no reply.
>
> Doug Reed.
> cell. 612.386.9096
>
> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.**org <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
>
>>    5. Servers Free For The Interested (Phillip Crump)
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>



-- 
* - Phillip*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120105/762441ea/attachment.html>

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 07:37:47 2012
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 07:37:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Off-site backup for Linux home users
In-Reply-To: <CAMh5oVquGiBQCL94S=aBpdH=j--BOsF4wUdH4Le6CVEitZ_uCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO3BxXAALDkd9oyCLBigxDcHzCm72bFA0bRLQJJ_qOgf2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKumxBxVC3P2aEm3ShqmNr2oL90znUXmNbo5Bx2PPjUtcxTUwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20111230100926.429ce62d@prokofiev.trutwins.homeip.net>
	<CACEdYO1RZ5XE3anNbtzJoZdpQmfQ+rFp1yNRPC1madciUT6EWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKGC1njXDSwv_PYea1oaP_cas5uRk21WZgyUzU_tPYgSe+TrXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMh5oVquGiBQCL94S=aBpdH=j--BOsF4wUdH4Le6CVEitZ_uCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO17y8jTpin0cZErT6QZtCBz=rCmdkN9U0akEz6Vtpn3gA@mail.gmail.com>

I've been using CrashPlan for a week now and I love it. Much faster, and
it's very easy to use + affordable. I can still back up the NAS from my
desktop, which isn't the most ideal but the ease of use makes it worth it.

Thank you all for your suggestions!

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski <andyzib at gmail.com>wrote:

> Yet another vote for CrashPlan here. I backup to my computers to my own
> storage server as well as CrashPlan's cloud. I've setup most of my family
> to backup to my storage server via CrashPlan as well. One of the many nice
> features of CrashPlan is you can use it to backup any storage device
> attached to your computer, including USB and FireWire hard drives. You
> aren't limited to internal drives only like you are with Carbonite and
> their unlimited storage option is really unlimited (looking at you Mozy.)
>
>
> --
> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
> IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120110/534598c8/attachment.html>

From samael.anon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 04:19:10 2012
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:19:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard drive
Message-ID: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>

does anyone have an old 2.5 ide hard drive?  my external hard drive went to
hell and i have no other way to back up my photographs.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/2be2bc5d/attachment.html>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Jan 19 08:57:37 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:57:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard drive
In-Reply-To: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9ACE54AD-81B6-45ED-8B87-BBECA6E6508E@me.com>

Microcenter has a 60GB USB drive for $30 right now... 

On Jan 19, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Samael wrote:

> does anyone have an old 2.5 ide hard drive?  my external hard drive went to hell and i have no other way to back up my photographs. 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Jan 19 09:04:14 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:04:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard drive
In-Reply-To: <9ACE54AD-81B6-45ED-8B87-BBECA6E6508E@me.com>
References: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ACE54AD-81B6-45ED-8B87-BBECA6E6508E@me.com>
Message-ID: <A7EBF6AB-97CA-4CDC-BD35-F32483A4C749@me.com>

SKU 104216 "Ultra Slim 60GB 1.8" USB2 ... 

On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:57 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Microcenter has a 60GB USB drive for $30 right now... 
> 
> On Jan 19, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Samael wrote:
> 
>> does anyone have an old 2.5 ide hard drive?  my external hard drive went to hell and i have no other way to back up my photographs. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Jan 19 10:49:39 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 10:49:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard drive
In-Reply-To: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191048350.3884@Dragon>

The biggest 2.5" IDE drive I have is a 40gb, you can have it if you like.

I have a 250GB if you're OK with 3.5".

You'd have to come up here and get them though.

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Samael wrote:

> does anyone have an old 2.5 ide hard drive?? my external hard drive went to
> hell and i have no other way to back up my photographs.
> 
>


-Yaron

--

From n0nas at amsat.org  Thu Jan 19 12:23:24 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:23:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for Dell Latitude CPi HD carriers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1326996001.400.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1326996001.400.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4F185F9C.2050007@amsat.org>

On the heels of the request for laptop hard drives, I'm looking for some 
hard drive carriers for old Dell Latitude CPi Model D266XT and similar 
vintages. The Model CP and CPi used the same carrier and the laptop came 
in speeds from 233 to 400MHz, or at least that is what I have.... I have 
about twice as many laptops as I have hard drive carriers. I don't have 
many hard drives, but I'll use Compact Flash cards or microdrives 
instead if I need to.

It is a bit absurd to keep these old laptops running, but I have found 
they run OK with Puppy Linux and some of my radio programming 
applications still require DOS or Win98 or real serial ports and real 
parallel ports that usually don't exist on modern laptops.

Doug Reed

From ahlfi006 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 13:50:38 2012
From: ahlfi006 at gmail.com (Andrew Ahlfield)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:50:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installfest?
Message-ID: <CAJap9FUKWSa8YnaFatyY5f9tMXtsG31TULhbKjhO0XYGMyjUYw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello TCLUG,

I recently joined, and have waited until now to write since I hadn't seen
any activity.

I'm decently familiar with GNU/Linux- I've been dualbooting Ubunutu for a
while and have installed other flavors on older boxes.
I'm wanting to branch out a little more; I'd like to install Arch, but I'm
not feeling confident enough to go it alone (a little bit of a time
constraint for having a working system is effecting that too, as school is
in session again).

Is there anything planned/would someone be willing to meet for a
"mini-install"? I'm in the Bloomington area.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Andrew Ahlfield
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/151e7f9f/attachment.html>

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Thu Jan 19 13:59:45 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 13:59:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I obtain a list of all installed packages in a
 certain section?
Message-ID: <20120119135945.05514e1a8a2cd01f4dbe17bb@jasonhsu.com>

I'm looking for a way to get a list of all of the packages in JUST the cli-mono section.

The command "dpkg-query -W -f='${Package}\n' > list.txt" gives me a list of ALL packages.  How do I limit the list to JUST the cli-mono section?

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 15:36:20 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:36:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I obtain a list of all installed packages
 in a certain section?
In-Reply-To: <20120119135945.05514e1a8a2cd01f4dbe17bb@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120119135945.05514e1a8a2cd01f4dbe17bb@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE9s9PFiz-9wFDjgyw_HHYZWO+qCukFfq8JHRMzVSuvfTg@mail.gmail.com>

dpkg-query -W -f='${Package}\n' | grep mono-cli > list.txt

is what I'd do....

-Rob


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to get a list of all of the packages in JUST the
> cli-mono section.
>
> The command "dpkg-query -W -f='${Package}\n' > list.txt" gives me a list
> of ALL packages.  How do I limit the list to JUST the cli-mono section?
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/cc208555/attachment.html>

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Thu Jan 19 15:31:59 2012
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:31:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Installfest?
In-Reply-To: <CAJap9FUKWSa8YnaFatyY5f9tMXtsG31TULhbKjhO0XYGMyjUYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJap9FUKWSa8YnaFatyY5f9tMXtsG31TULhbKjhO0XYGMyjUYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F188BCF.3070404@Goecke-Dolan.com>

Andrew,
I have one scheduled for April at the PenguinsUnbound Meeting.

Schedule here,
http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Meetings

There are also some other ones around now, but now sure when or where.

==>brian.

On 01/19/2012 01:50 PM, Andrew Ahlfield wrote:
> Hello TCLUG,
>
> I recently joined, and have waited until now to write since I hadn't
> seen any activity.
>
> I'm decently familiar with GNU/Linux- I've been dualbooting Ubunutu for
> a while and have installed other flavors on older boxes.
> I'm wanting to branch out a little more; I'd like to install Arch, but
> I'm not feeling confident enough to go it alone (a little bit of a time
> constraint for having a working system is effecting that too, as school
> is in session again).
>
> Is there anything planned/would someone be willing to meet for a
> "mini-install"? I'm in the Bloomington area.
>
> Thanks and Best Regards,
> Andrew Ahlfield
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From gsker at skerbitz.org  Thu Jan 19 17:00:58 2012
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:00:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I obtain a list of all installed packages
 in a certain section?
In-Reply-To: <20120119135945.05514e1a8a2cd01f4dbe17bb@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120119135945.05514e1a8a2cd01f4dbe17bb@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191659330.19117@veeta>

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to get a list of all of the packages in JUST the cli-mono section.
>
> The command "dpkg-query -W -f='${Package}\n' > list.txt" gives me a list of ALL packages.  How do I limit the list to JUST the cli-mono section?
>

aptitude search '~s cli-mono'

http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s05.html#tableSearchTermQuickGuide

-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org

From gsker at skerbitz.org  Thu Jan 19 17:03:01 2012
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:03:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] How do I obtain a list of all installed packages
 in a certain section?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191659330.19117@veeta>
References: <20120119135945.05514e1a8a2cd01f4dbe17bb@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191659330.19117@veeta>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191702110.19530@veeta>

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Gerry wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for a way to get a list of all of the packages in JUST the 
>> cli-mono section.
>> 
>> The command "dpkg-query -W -f='${Package}\n' > list.txt" gives me a list of 
>> ALL packages.  How do I limit the list to JUST the cli-mono section?
>
> aptitude search '~s cli-mono'
>
> http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s05.html#tableSearchTermQuickGuide

Sorry for replying to myself --
If you only want installed packages:    aptitude search '~i~s cli-mono'


-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org

From jjensen at apache.org  Thu Jan 19 17:16:29 2012
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:16:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
Message-ID: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a few older PCs that I want to wipe the drives very well and
donate.  Googling, I see quite a few apps to do so.  What are current
top recs and approaches any of you have done?

From jmore at starmind.org  Thu Jan 19 17:20:28 2012
From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:20:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3GUt8eobwuCNWz0+tuN8ebaa+YRn3H5vp77awNAjSArAi78Q@mail.gmail.com>

DBAN.  http://www.dban.org/  One pass is sufficient on modern drives.  If
the drive is older than 7 years, use a few passes.

Unless their SSDs.  In that case, shred them.  To over-generalize, they
cannot be erased in a reliable and secure fashion.

-Josh More

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jeff Jensen <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:

> I have a few older PCs that I want to wipe the drives very well and
> donate.  Googling, I see quite a few apps to do so.  What are current
> top recs and approaches any of you have done?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/a1b73959/attachment-0001.html>

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 17:20:17 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:20:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_tien9gKGsBtq8bn8bQnj0pgt=vLjmifZprzniTrbAxk=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jeff Jensen <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:
> I have a few older PCs that I want to wipe the drives very well and
> donate. ?Googling, I see quite a few apps to do so. ?What are current
> top recs and approaches any of you have done?

I have always used dban for such a task:  http://www.dban.org/
If you're REALLY concerned about data being left there, you'll
probably want to physically destroy the hard drives.
- Justin

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 17:45:01 2012
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:45:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>

dc3dd wipe=/dev/<drive>

or

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/<drive>
..or replace with zero with urandom for randomness.

These will do a 1-pass to the entire disk with zeros. You can even confirm
with a hexeditor. If someone still gets your residual data by physically
playing around with the platters in a clean environment they probably
deserve it =)

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jeff Jensen <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:

> I have a few older PCs that I want to wipe the drives very well and
> donate.  Googling, I see quite a few apps to do so.  What are current
> top recs and approaches any of you have done?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/bd8751ce/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 17:54:49 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:54:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>

I usually whack the circuit-board with a hammer after de-installing, drill
a hole through the platters, and run strong magnets over them too.

-Rob


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:

> dc3dd wipe=/dev/<drive>
>
> or
>
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/<drive>
> ..or replace with zero with urandom for randomness.
>
> These will do a 1-pass to the entire disk with zeros. You can even confirm
> with a hexeditor. If someone still gets your residual data by physically
> playing around with the platters in a clean environment they probably
> deserve it =)
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jeff Jensen <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I have a few older PCs that I want to wipe the drives very well and
>> donate.  Googling, I see quite a few apps to do so.  What are current
>> top recs and approaches any of you have done?
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/a5aba003/attachment.html>

From xcorvis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 20:02:03 2012
From: xcorvis at gmail.com (Adam Nave)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:02:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>

I gotta say, physically destroying drives is serious overkill for the home
user. If your company has something to prove to a regulatory body or are
worried about legal requirements, sure, physically destroy the drives. If
you're just wiping it because you may have had some personal info on it, a
one-pass wipe is more than sufficient. Wipe the drives and donate them a
center that builds computers for people in need. Or put them in an external
case and give them to your relatives for backups. We use a 3 pass wipe with
DBAN at work, it's plenty.

Your personal data is probably worth a couple hundred bucks on the black
market. It'll cost several thousand dollars to do data recovery on your old
drive, and even that probably won't work if you wipe it once,
and definitely won't work if you did a 3 or 7 pass wipe. The economics of
data theft means it just doesn't pay to do. Recovering wiped data (really
wiped, not just data on a dead drive) is only done by organizations with
major resources - like big corporations or governments - and only for
critical projects.

Also, if you're paranoid enough to destroy a drive, you better run it
through a chipper. Circuit boards can be replaced, drilled platters can be
read in a clean room (minus the hole, of course), and running commodity
magnets over drives generally does not do anything. You need a serious
electromagnet and even that is sometimes not enough. My coworkers ran tests
with magnetic coils and it didn't do anything to the drives at all.

--Adam

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:54 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

> I usually whack the circuit-board with a hammer after de-installing, drill
> a hole through the platters, and run strong magnets over them too.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
> jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> dc3dd wipe=/dev/<drive>
>>
>> or
>>
>> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/<drive>
>> ..or replace with zero with urandom for randomness.
>>
>> These will do a 1-pass to the entire disk with zeros. You can even
>> confirm with a hexeditor. If someone still gets your residual data by
>> physically playing around with the platters in a clean environment they
>> probably deserve it =)
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jeff Jensen <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few older PCs that I want to wipe the drives very well and
>>> donate.  Googling, I see quite a few apps to do so.  What are current
>>> top recs and approaches any of you have done?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/0c3a9662/attachment.html>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Jan 19 20:06:03 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:06:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Adam Nave wrote:

> I gotta say, physically destroying drives is serious overkill for the home
> user.


I believe you misspelled "serious fun".


-Yaron

--

From ryanjcole at me.com  Thu Jan 19 20:09:31 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:09:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
Message-ID: <D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>


On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Yaron wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Adam Nave wrote:
> 
>> I gotta say, physically destroying drives is serious overkill for the home
>> user.
> 
> 
> I believe you misspelled "serious fun".

As a former DoD family member one said: The only way to make sure there's nothing recoverable on the drive (meaning not making it financially worth it to recover) is to drill a few holes randomly spaced from the center of the drive with a 1/4" bit.

Apparently that's the "DoD-proof" level of data destruction.


From jmore at starmind.org  Thu Jan 19 20:11:21 2012
From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:11:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
	<D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3GUt9uJO2sque6G4p_OruKVuNt8vYxYhcO_zyyBV7apa3DEw@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, if you do the 1/4 hole idea, it *really* helps to then turn the
drive on.  The drives will often shred themselves.

If you're in the Navy, of course, you just toss the platters overboard and
let the salt water do it's thing.

-Josh

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

>
> On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Yaron wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Adam Nave wrote:
> >
> >> I gotta say, physically destroying drives is serious overkill for the
> home
> >> user.
> >
> >
> > I believe you misspelled "serious fun".
>
> As a former DoD family member one said: The only way to make sure there's
> nothing recoverable on the drive (meaning not making it financially worth
> it to recover) is to drill a few holes randomly spaced from the center of
> the drive with a 1/4" bit.
>
> Apparently that's the "DoD-proof" level of data destruction.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/1415e040/attachment.html>

From xcorvis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 20:20:50 2012
From: xcorvis at gmail.com (Adam Nave)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:20:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
	<D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAAOshu0cX7nXUDZf8Wrd49sDVug9Sa2BxgY4LW3THkiHs0H_xA@mail.gmail.com>

It's a good one liner, but you're only destroying like 10% of the surface
area of the disk. Granted this will probable render a large amount of the
data unreadable, but it's not a guarantee.

But sure, like I said, it's not economical to do data recovery for a home
users' info so drill away.

--Adam

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

>
> On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Yaron wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Adam Nave wrote:
> >
> >> I gotta say, physically destroying drives is serious overkill for the
> home
> >> user.
> >
> >
> > I believe you misspelled "serious fun".
>
> As a former DoD family member one said: The only way to make sure there's
> nothing recoverable on the drive (meaning not making it financially worth
> it to recover) is to drill a few holes randomly spaced from the center of
> the drive with a 1/4" bit.
>
> Apparently that's the "DoD-proof" level of data destruction.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/f593a71b/attachment.html>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Jan 19 20:25:21 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:25:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAAOshu0cX7nXUDZf8Wrd49sDVug9Sa2BxgY4LW3THkiHs0H_xA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
	<D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
	<CAAOshu0cX7nXUDZf8Wrd49sDVug9Sa2BxgY4LW3THkiHs0H_xA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192024520.3884@Dragon>

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Adam Nave wrote:

> But sure, like I said, it's not economical to do data recovery for a home
> users' info so drill away.

I prefer to take the drives apart and use the platters as 
coasters/conversation pieces.

-Yaron

--

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 19 20:52:09 2012
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:52:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3GUt9uJO2sque6G4p_OruKVuNt8vYxYhcO_zyyBV7apa3DEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
	<D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
	<CAB3GUt9uJO2sque6G4p_OruKVuNt8vYxYhcO_zyyBV7apa3DEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1327027929.66509.YahooMailNeo@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Might as well use a pound of thermite.? Difficult to recover data off a lump of slag.

?
--- 
Wayne Johnson,????????????             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003????????????             | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis



>________________________________
> From: Josh More <jmore at starmind.org>
>To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
> 
>
>Actually, if you do the 1/4 hole idea, it *really* helps to then turn the drive on.? The drives will often shred themselves.
>
>If you're in the Navy, of course, you just toss the platters overboard and let the salt water do it's thing.
>
>-Josh
>
>
>On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Yaron wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Adam Nave wrote:
>>>
>>>> I gotta say, physically destroying drives is serious overkill for the home
>>>> user.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe you misspelled "serious fun".
>>
>>As a former DoD family member one said: The only way to make sure there's nothing recoverable on the drive (meaning not making it financially worth it to recover) is to drill a few holes randomly spaced from the center of the drive with a 1/4" bit.
>>
>>Apparently that's the "DoD-proof" level of data destruction.
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120119/03c9deac/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 21:03:52 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:03:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3GUt9uJO2sque6G4p_OruKVuNt8vYxYhcO_zyyBV7apa3DEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
	<D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
	<CAB3GUt9uJO2sque6G4p_OruKVuNt8vYxYhcO_zyyBV7apa3DEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201192055260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Josh More wrote:

> If you're in the Navy, of course, you just toss the platters overboard 
> and let the salt water do it's thing.


You and so many of the other TCLUG people are reckless with your 
top-secret data.  If you throw it in the water, a shark might swallow it. 
Then the shark might get caught by Japanese fishermen and the fishermen 
will cut the shark open and find the hard drive.  The stomach acids will 
have started to work on the case, but they'll just give the hard drive to 
the Japanese national security IT team and they'll replace the case and 
the board with new parts and they'll scrape the data off the drive. 
After a few days of scanning they'll recover most of the data on the disk. 
Then they'll have their supercomputer decrypt some of it and eventually 
they'll find it ... Your wife's Gmail password.  Game Over.

Don't take chances.  Use a sledge hammer to crush all of the parts before 
throwing the hard drive into a volcano.  This is why I only use *active* 
volcanos to destroy my old hard drives.  It's really the only secure way.

Mike

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu Jan 19 21:10:15 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 03:10:15 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201192055260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201192005300.3884@Dragon>
	<D2303C0A-6B6C-4B1C-934B-DF4B12BD4FD7@me.com>
	<CAB3GUt9uJO2sque6G4p_OruKVuNt8vYxYhcO_zyyBV7apa3DEw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201192055260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <405800148-1327029018-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1324939893-@b1.c4.bise6.blackberry>

One drive to rule them all? Just make sure you actually throw it in at Mordor or it will not be actually destroyed.

Hard drive destruction techniques. Sounds like an interesting idea for a MythBusters episodes.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:03:52 
To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Josh More wrote:

> If you're in the Navy, of course, you just toss the platters overboard 
> and let the salt water do it's thing.


You and so many of the other TCLUG people are reckless with your 
top-secret data.  If you throw it in the water, a shark might swallow it. 
Then the shark might get caught by Japanese fishermen and the fishermen 
will cut the shark open and find the hard drive.  The stomach acids will 
have started to work on the case, but they'll just give the hard drive to 
the Japanese national security IT team and they'll replace the case and 
the board with new parts and they'll scrape the data off the drive. 
After a few days of scanning they'll recover most of the data on the disk. 
Then they'll have their supercomputer decrypt some of it and eventually 
they'll find it ... Your wife's Gmail password.  Game Over.

Don't take chances.  Use a sledge hammer to crush all of the parts before 
throwing the hard drive into a volcano.  This is why I only use *active* 
volcanos to destroy my old hard drives.  It's really the only secure way.

Mike
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jolexa at jolexa.net  Thu Jan 19 22:20:21 2012
From: jolexa at jolexa.net (Jeremy Olexa)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:20:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO27EAfFMfm+Hq6uMgQxnGoNPKZR_Z+aCQ=HdwEPprcGHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8-ZV+_EvH6LDKZE72TrSbLFKVQpPCd7P=M2CL_+8AWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAOshu0rvWRYiO0uFVjxVKWA6J_rXdijkmV9zHAZdgD_55Srwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxqorXsPUzPtmQLecqc75FjXdwnpuM_tG23=a9ZeFfcGk=ONA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Adam Nave <xcorvis at gmail.com> wrote:
> I gotta say, physically destroying drives is serious overkill for the home

You are right. Better use thermite...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ckechIqW0

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Thu Jan 19 22:46:59 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:46:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120119224659.de6ecc91efa5f7eed819b2df@jasonhsu.com>

Like several others, I recommend Darik's Boot and Nuke.  Even the most minimal algorithm (one pass of filling the drive with zeros) is enough to render the data on the drive unrecoverable.  Yes, I tried this out with TestDisk, which was able to recover data before the first pass with DBAN and unable to recover ANYTHING after one pass of filling the drive with zeros.

As long as the drives still work, I recommend DBAN.  I think it's a waste to destroy a WORKING hard drive.

If the drives don't work, then I recommend destroying the platters inside.  I recently had to destroy a hard drive.  I was able to find the screwdriver I needed for taking the drive apart at a Runnings store.  It was interesting to see what was inside the hard drive.  I took out the platter, scratched it up, and disposed of the hard drive remnants at a local household hazardous waste disposal site.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From nesius at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 00:05:51 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:05:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <20120119224659.de6ecc91efa5f7eed819b2df@jasonhsu.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120119224659.de6ecc91efa5f7eed819b2df@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE9+ZLYhv2vUoB7kBK1no--kKExOfQ0cfH+msWsmj7eBgA@mail.gmail.com>

Just to clarify, I tend to only throw away drives that are already
problematic (suffered a failure) or are obsolete (old scsi drives from old
macs, whatever).  I know even then that's no guarantee that bits won't be
recovered from a determined agent with deep pockets.  I view it more of a
deterrent along the lines of a lock on a screen door - it keeps out the
casual thieves. ;)  Plus, I get a small amount of pleasure in disassembling
and destroying high-precision electronics.  Especially if it's a drive that
caused me problems.   The only part of my process I wondered about was the
magnets.  I use pretty strong ones, but even then I wasn't sure if they
were adding any value.  Sounds like "probably not".

So, yeah... probably overkill.  But it amuses me.

Speaking of strong magnets, at my previous employer the "fun cube toys"
were magnets from inside end-of-lifed or failed hard disks.  There are some
pretty strong magnets in there - at least in the drives we were using five
years ago or so.

-Rob


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> Like several others, I recommend Darik's Boot and Nuke.  Even the most
> minimal algorithm (one pass of filling the drive with zeros) is enough to
> render the data on the drive unrecoverable.  Yes, I tried this out with
> TestDisk, which was able to recover data before the first pass with DBAN
> and unable to recover ANYTHING after one pass of filling the drive with
> zeros.
>
> As long as the drives still work, I recommend DBAN.  I think it's a waste
> to destroy a WORKING hard drive.
>
> If the drives don't work, then I recommend destroying the platters inside.
>  I recently had to destroy a hard drive.  I was able to find the
> screwdriver I needed for taking the drive apart at a Runnings store.  It
> was interesting to see what was inside the hard drive.  I took out the
> platter, scratched it up, and disposed of the hard drive remnants at a
> local household hazardous waste disposal site.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120120/fb055d33/attachment.html>

From james007wjs at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 13:01:13 2012
From: james007wjs at gmail.com (wes smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:01:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
Message-ID: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
> One drive to rule them all? Just make sure you actually throw it in at
> Mordor or it will not be actually destroyed.
>
> Hard drive destruction techniques. Sounds like an interesting idea for a
> MythBusters episodes.
>

One does not simply throw a harddrive into Mordor.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120120/82742dd0/attachment.html>

From blutgens at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 13:04:15 2012
From: blutgens at gmail.com (Ben)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:04:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANoiwe7VFs-emkPwS4wE_4X76NGpWiQXZhecQoNVefKRy2EDrQ@mail.gmail.com>

It's pretty well accepted that multiple iterations of dd'ing from /dev/zero
over the whole disk will sufficiently eradicate the data. Ideally  you want
to destroy the platters, e.g. with a nailgun/drill/hammer, and grind them
up really well =) Besides, it's a pretty good time going to town on some
old drives with a sledge hammer.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:01 PM, wes smith <james007wjs at gmail.com> wrote:

> One drive to rule them all? Just make sure you actually throw it in at
>> Mordor or it will not be actually destroyed.
>>
>> Hard drive destruction techniques. Sounds like an interesting idea for a
>> MythBusters episodes.
>>
>
> One does not simply throw a harddrive into Mordor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Ben Lutgens
Linux / Unix System Administrator

Three of your friends throw up after eating chicken salad.  Do you think:
"I should find more robust friends" or "we should check that refrigerator"?
       -- Donald Becker, on vortex-bug, suspecting a network-wide problem
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120120/c2f9f0e9/attachment.html>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Jan 20 13:07:31 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:07:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201201306590.6290@Dragon>


On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, wes smith wrote:

> One does not simply throw a harddrive into Mordor.

I need to put that on a t-shirt. Or maybe a twinkie.


-Yaron

--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 14:17:39 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:17:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201201306590.6290@Dragon>
References: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201201306590.6290@Dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Yaron wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, wes smith wrote:
>
>> One does not simply throw a harddrive into Mordor.
>
> I need to put that on a t-shirt. Or maybe a twinkie.

Hostess may go out of business, so hurry to buy that Twinkie, but once you 
have one, you have time because they have a shelf life of 100,000 years.

But seriously -- regarding /dev/zero -- does anyone think there are any 
*real* worries about data recovery after you've filled the drive with 
zeros?  I know if I was working on a secret project at Microsoft, I 
wouldn't fill my old drive with zeros and then hand it to developers at 
Apple or Oracle, but if we're talking about giving a personal hard drive 
to someone who just wants to use it in their personal computer, isn't use 
of /dev/zero plenty?

Jeremy pointed out that /dev/urandom would use random bits.  I would think 
that /dev/urandom would be a better choice than /dev/zero.  Is there any 
reason to prefer /dev/zero?  In other words, isn't this a really good 
answer:

dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/<drive>

Is it really even necessary to do that twice?

Related question:  Every drive on my system seems to get three entries in 
/dev like so:

/dev/sdb
/dev/sdb1
/dev/sdb2

To properly mess up that drive, can I just do this?:

dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb

Or do I have to do this?:

dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb1

Because sdb1 seems to be the mounted partition with the data.

Mike

From tclug at beitsahour.net  Fri Jan 20 14:36:31 2012
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:36:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201201306590.6290@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAMg8xas=PS2XpzSDkR=PZTWdBQU=kTLpHDp0wtrFP-oZUPRnmg@mail.gmail.com>

> Related question: ?Every drive on my system seems to get three entries in
> /dev like so:
>
> /dev/sdb
> /dev/sdb1
> /dev/sdb2
>
> To properly mess up that drive, can I just do this?:
>
> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb
>
> Or do I have to do this?:
>
> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb1
>
> Because sdb1 seems to be the mounted partition with the data.

each block device gets an sdX or hdX entry, and then a number for each
partition (sdXN). zero out he partition table and the next time you
connect the drive it will only have a sdX(or hdX) entry.  This will
also be the case if you forego a partition table altogether like when
you use lvm or luks.

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 20 14:48:54 2012
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:48:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201201306590.6290@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1327092534.3876.YahooMailNeo@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

One caveat.? You will probably need to boot from a stand alone CD to wipe with dd.? Once you wipe the part of the disk with the binary for dd or the swap file, strange and wondrous things will happen.

/dev/sdb is the whole drive include the boot sector, the partition table and the partitions.? 

?
I have long believed that the ancient Egyptians didn't invent mummification.? They invented Twinkies.? 



--- 
Wayne Johnson,????????????             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003????????????             | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis



>________________________________
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
>To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 2:17 PM
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
> 
>On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Yaron wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, wes smith wrote:
>> 
>>> One does not simply throw a harddrive into Mordor.
>> 
>> I need to put that on a t-shirt. Or maybe a twinkie.
>
>Hostess may go out of business, so hurry to buy that Twinkie, but once you have one, you have time because they have a shelf life of 100,000 years.
>
>But seriously -- regarding /dev/zero -- does anyone think there are any *real* worries about data recovery after you've filled the drive with zeros?? I know if I was working on a secret project at Microsoft, I wouldn't fill my old drive with zeros and then hand it to developers at Apple or Oracle, but if we're talking about giving a personal hard drive to someone who just wants to use it in their personal computer, isn't use of /dev/zero plenty?
>
>Jeremy pointed out that /dev/urandom would use random bits.? I would think that /dev/urandom would be a better choice than /dev/zero.? Is there any reason to prefer /dev/zero?? In other words, isn't this a really good answer:
>
>dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/<drive>
>
>Is it really even necessary to do that twice?
>
>Related question:? Every drive on my system seems to get three entries in /dev like so:
>
>/dev/sdb
>/dev/sdb1
>/dev/sdb2
>
>To properly mess up that drive, can I just do this?:
>
>dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb
>
>Or do I have to do this?:
>
>dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb1
>
>Because sdb1 seems to be the mounted partition with the data.
>
>Mike
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120120/724dbe26/attachment-0001.html>

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 15:15:33 2012
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:15:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard drive
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191048350.3884@Dragon>
References: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191048350.3884@Dragon>
Message-ID: <CAOZLdJWd2tk9GkqZZ7rD5x8gQDdg6gpLQQ=Ohd+08-r5BPeThg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm actually looking for a 2.5" IDE drive as well (bare), to replace
one in an old laptop.

 - Tony

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 20:54:05 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:54:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard drive
In-Reply-To: <CAOZLdJWd2tk9GkqZZ7rD5x8gQDdg6gpLQQ=Ohd+08-r5BPeThg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191048350.3884@Dragon>
	<CAOZLdJWd2tk9GkqZZ7rD5x8gQDdg6gpLQQ=Ohd+08-r5BPeThg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=Q4udax=Z+zwXuNwLO1jZnnQ516nqYFR_fhi6X0dGkQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Tony Yarusso <tonyyarusso at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm actually looking for a 2.5" IDE drive as well (bare), to replace
> one in an old laptop.

How big do you need? I have a 20GB and a 30GB 2.5" IDE laying around.

Brian

From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri Jan 20 21:03:44 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:03:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Routing help/issues
Message-ID: <B7F6E192-D5D8-4B1A-AD5F-9B465FD7402D@me.com>

I have a complicated setup. Thanks to my former boss (the Network Admin) we don't have a VPN. This is ******. He's old school - Windows Terminal Server and RDP all the way.

That's fine for the normal users but the power users on the staff (myself included) need a VPN as the tools are only on my MacBook or only licensed to my install of either XP or 7 (boot camp) on my MBP.

Here's what we have:

HQ LAN: 192.168.45.0/24
MY LAN: 192.168.46.0/24
MY VPN: 192.168.47.0/24

I have MYVPN <==> MY office working perfectly.

Between MYLAN and HQLAN are two NetVanta 3430s (Rev #1) running the latest firmware (18.02.04.00).

The two offices can talk to each other without issue.

Traceroute from my MacBook (on MYVPN) and from the Terminal Server (HQLAN) each seem to stall at the GRE tunnel between them.

At one point I had pings from MYVPN showing up on HQLAN (using Wireshark) but I had my filter wrong and I don't know what I did to make that happen, I caught it 40 minutes after I undid the changes I had made to the routing tables.

I'd really love some hands on help (sorry, I can't/won't give anyone direct access to the systems remotely) and I can't pay in food or beer up front but I will be able to take you out for a couple cold ones or lunch on my employer after it's working.

Thanks for your help/interest,
Ryan

P.S. I'm at Caffetto off Lyndale and 22nd if you're interested in coming down.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120120/bf881574/attachment.html>

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 21:08:34 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:08:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201201306590.6290@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPneUMvb9Gpq1p6jW2UrocUURX-Xg6t-OPoSyZABVVaQsA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> But seriously -- regarding /dev/zero -- does anyone think there are any
> *real* worries about data recovery after you've filled the drive with zeros?

Yes.  I once used a tool (Ontrack maybe?) that found bits of file
structures after wiping with /dev/zero.  Ever since then, I rely on no
less than a 3 pass DBAN wipe.

> ?I know if I was working on a secret project at Microsoft, I wouldn't fill
> my old drive with zeros and then hand it to developers at Apple or Oracle,
> but if we're talking about giving a personal hard drive to someone who just
> wants to use it in their personal computer, isn't use of /dev/zero plenty?

I trust no one, but I'm weird that way.

> Jeremy pointed out that /dev/urandom would use random bits. ?I would think
> that /dev/urandom would be a better choice than /dev/zero. ?Is there any
> reason to prefer /dev/zero? ?In other words, isn't this a really good
> answer:
> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/<drive>
> Is it really even necessary to do that twice?

In theory, alternating bit patterns mask magnetic signatures better
than a single stream of 0s.  Multiple passes increase the masking
effect and make software based recovery impossible.  If I don't have
DBAN handy, I'll usually do two passes of urandom and one pass of
zeros.  It makes me feel better for some reason.  Irrational paranoia
is fun sometimes.

> To properly mess up that drive, can I just do this?:
> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb

Can and should.  As others have stated, this whacks the whole
partition table, boot sector, and of course all areas of the drive
with data.

Brian

From adam at askewview.net  Fri Jan 20 22:29:02 2012
From: adam at askewview.net (Adam Barthelemy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:29:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoPneUMvb9Gpq1p6jW2UrocUURX-Xg6t-OPoSyZABVVaQsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANQN+fPs+Ghxu-=q=oKPLRjmwOtzYosoH7h82VTDrXdir2xYkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201201306590.6290@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201201402260.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAB3QoPneUMvb9Gpq1p6jW2UrocUURX-Xg6t-OPoSyZABVVaQsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F1A3F0E.9030000@askewview.net>

I'd recommend DBAN as well.

I've recovered plenty of data from a drive that has been zeroed with 
/dev/zero before.

--Adam

On 1/20/2012 9:08 PM, Brian Wall wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Mike Miller<mbmiller+l at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> But seriously -- regarding /dev/zero -- does anyone think there are any
>> *real* worries about data recovery after you've filled the drive with zeros?
> Yes.  I once used a tool (Ontrack maybe?) that found bits of file
> structures after wiping with /dev/zero.  Ever since then, I rely on no
> less than a 3 pass DBAN wipe.
>
>>   I know if I was working on a secret project at Microsoft, I wouldn't fill
>> my old drive with zeros and then hand it to developers at Apple or Oracle,
>> but if we're talking about giving a personal hard drive to someone who just
>> wants to use it in their personal computer, isn't use of /dev/zero plenty?
> I trust no one, but I'm weird that way.
>
>> Jeremy pointed out that /dev/urandom would use random bits.  I would think
>> that /dev/urandom would be a better choice than /dev/zero.  Is there any
>> reason to prefer /dev/zero?  In other words, isn't this a really good
>> answer:
>> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/<drive>
>> Is it really even necessary to do that twice?
> In theory, alternating bit patterns mask magnetic signatures better
> than a single stream of 0s.  Multiple passes increase the masking
> effect and make software based recovery impossible.  If I don't have
> DBAN handy, I'll usually do two passes of urandom and one pass of
> zeros.  It makes me feel better for some reason.  Irrational paranoia
> is fun sometimes.
>
>> To properly mess up that drive, can I just do this?:
>> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sdb
> Can and should.  As others have stated, this whacks the whole
> partition table, boot sector, and of course all areas of the drive
> with data.
>
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Sat Jan 21 00:32:18 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 00:32:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Audio disabled when switching from GDM to SLiM login
	manager
Message-ID: <20120121003218.fb4b96d76c5cfbd51af4eb36@jasonhsu.com>

I discovered that the sound stops working when I replace the GDM login manager with the SLiM login manager.

>From Googling around, I found that the problem was a permissions issue.  Entering the command "sudo adduser (username) audio" restored the audio capability.

That said, this is an issue I need to resolve for users of Swift Linux.  Part of the process of transforming Linux Mint Debian Edition into Swift Linux is replacing the GDM login manager with the SLiM login manager.  How can I make the audio work out-of-the-box for Swift Linux?  Why is this an issue in SLiM but not in GDM?  (Or is this an issue in GDM that the Linux Mint developers already took care of?)

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Jan 21 00:44:03 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 00:44:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Audio disabled when switching from GDM to SLiM
 login manager
In-Reply-To: <20120121003218.fb4b96d76c5cfbd51af4eb36@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120121003218.fb4b96d76c5cfbd51af4eb36@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201210043150.10051@Dragon>

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> That said, this is an issue I need to resolve for users of Swift Linux.

Since I don't use Gnome or any other of the desktop environments I run 
into this often. All you really have to do is make sure the USER is part 
of the "audio" group.


-Yaron

--

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 01:20:33 2012
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:20:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard drive
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoP=Q4udax=Z+zwXuNwLO1jZnnQ516nqYFR_fhi6X0dGkQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKJ_APp+9DAPoppoc2f2Jt+S0ju-ZATvL0CxN04WBzsmaM1LCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201191048350.3884@Dragon>
	<CAOZLdJWd2tk9GkqZZ7rD5x8gQDdg6gpLQQ=Ohd+08-r5BPeThg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB3QoP=Q4udax=Z+zwXuNwLO1jZnnQ516nqYFR_fhi6X0dGkQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOZLdJXwyApAmjWuj4cFXEgNxdYGy_en_0+k7NOvAngyUnxUVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Well, obviously bigger is better here, but those would be adequate to
at least make it work.

 - Tony

From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 15:50:27 2012
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G Scott Walters)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 15:50:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
Message-ID: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>

My household currently has local phone service with CenturyLink. Like 
most people, we make most of our calls on our mobile phones. The primary 
reason I've not considered going without a land line, is for 911 
service. I have two kids, and would prefer that they are able to pickup 
a regular handset, than try to find a prepaid cell phone in a drawer 
somewhere.

Its come to my attention that some states require emergency phone 
service, even on a disconnected line. This is sometimes called a 'soft 
line' or 'warm line'. But the only information I can find on this law is 
from a 3 year old article from Consumer Reports here: 
http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/05/update-about-911-and-disconnected-landlines.html

Can anyone definatively say that Minnesota does or does not have this 
requirement? Anyone with a disconnected CenturyLink line into your home 
willing to test this? Apparently, you can dial 811 on a disconnected 
line and get to a telco switch board; I wouldn't recommend to anyone 
dialing 911 for non-emergency reasons.

Thanks

Scott

From smcgrath23 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 16:55:00 2012
From: smcgrath23 at gmail.com (Steve McGrath)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:55:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
References: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO2sc9TnhA_8ephjdR8WTp8g18KyNFOtt6ScLZWUkqZNnhpUug@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 PM, G Scott Walters
<gscottwalters at gmail.com> wrote:
> My household currently has local phone service with CenturyLink. Like most
> people, we make most of our calls on our mobile phones. The primary reason
> I've not considered going without a land line, is for 911 service. I have
> two kids, and would prefer that they are able to pickup a regular handset,
> than try to find a prepaid cell phone in a drawer somewhere.
>
> Its come to my attention that some states require emergency phone service,
> even on a disconnected line. This is sometimes called a 'soft line' or 'warm
> line'. But the only information I can find on this law is from a 3 year old
> article from Consumer Reports here:
> http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/05/update-about-911-and-disconnected-landlines.html
>
> Can anyone definatively say that Minnesota does or does not have this
> requirement? Anyone with a disconnected CenturyLink line into your home
> willing to test this? Apparently, you can dial 811 on a disconnected line
> and get to a telco switch board; I wouldn't recommend to anyone dialing 911
> for non-emergency reasons.
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

Sounds like you really ought to just ask Centurylink to be sure.
They're actually incredibly responsive via Twitter; @CenturyLinkHelp.

-Steve

-- 
If it ain't broke, you're not using a new enough version

From ryanjcole at me.com  Sat Jan 21 16:58:26 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:58:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <CAO2sc9TnhA_8ephjdR8WTp8g18KyNFOtt6ScLZWUkqZNnhpUug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
	<CAO2sc9TnhA_8ephjdR8WTp8g18KyNFOtt6ScLZWUkqZNnhpUug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E94DB6E-7BFC-4D2D-BCB3-D6C7A5686B32@me.com>

On Jan 21, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Steve McGrath wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 PM, G Scott Walters
> <gscottwalters at gmail.com> wrote:
>> My household currently has local phone service with CenturyLink. Like most
>> people, we make most of our calls on our mobile phones. The primary reason
>> I've not considered going without a land line, is for 911 service. I have
>> two kids, and would prefer that they are able to pickup a regular handset,
>> than try to find a prepaid cell phone in a drawer somewhere.
>> 
>> Its come to my attention that some states require emergency phone service,
>> even on a disconnected line. This is sometimes called a 'soft line' or 'warm
>> line'. But the only information I can find on this law is from a 3 year old
>> article from Consumer Reports here:
>> http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/05/update-about-911-and-disconnected-landlines.html
>> 
>> Can anyone definatively say that Minnesota does or does not have this
>> requirement? Anyone with a disconnected CenturyLink line into your home
>> willing to test this? Apparently, you can dial 811 on a disconnected line
>> and get to a telco switch board; I wouldn't recommend to anyone dialing 911
>> for non-emergency reasons.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Scott
> 
> Sounds like you really ought to just ask Centurylink to be sure.
> They're actually incredibly responsive via Twitter; @CenturyLinkHelp.
> 
> -Steve

Actually, this is a question for the Minnesota Statutes lookup or the Secretary of State's office.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/pubs/

Your typical CSR won't know this with certainty.

This law, though, has been on the books for a very long time.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120121/af7f6305/attachment.html>

From jjensen at apache.org  Sat Jan 21 18:57:05 2012
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 18:57:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] hard disk wiper?
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKumxBy9+NL=oY4dh+orBWXayBi0q=ZsCQp4Dmvom4En0Ti9Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKumxByDCCYP15LK4bqbN+J_XxWicXjfiBsQi5cFEdfQ0KgD7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for all the suggestions!  Very helpful and appreciated (and funny!).


On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Jeff Jensen <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:
> I have a few older PCs that I want to wipe the drives very well and
> donate. ?Googling, I see quite a few apps to do so. ?What are current
> top recs and approaches any of you have done?

From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 21 19:14:26 2012
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 19:14:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEGIDHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

My Phonepower VOIP service has a 911 feature...       and GREAT web
features..  emailed voicemail, etc.  .. plus free "softphone" SW to use
phone as if home via my laptop without router hardware wherever I have a
WiFi connection.  $14.95/mo.  FAR better than Vonage, cheaper, and no hidden
costs.  If someone gives my ID when signing up, then we'd both get a $10
one-time discount.  This is not intended as a commercial message, and I'm
just a subscriber.  I eliminated all of my landline service, but have 911
service, 411, etc.

Dunno about what you requested tho.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of G Scott Walters
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:50 PM
>
> My household currently has local phone service with CenturyLink. Like
> most people, we make most of our calls on our mobile phones. The primary
> reason I've not considered going without a land line, is for 911
> service. I have two kids, and would prefer that they are able to pickup
> a regular handset, than try to find a prepaid cell phone in a drawer
> somewhere.
>
> Its come to my attention that some states require emergency phone
> service, even on a disconnected line. This is sometimes called a 'soft
> line' or 'warm line'. But the only information I can find on this law is
> from a 3 year old article from Consumer Reports here:
> http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/05/update-about-9
11-and-disconnected-landlines.html

Can anyone definatively say that Minnesota does or does not have this
requirement? Anyone with a disconnected CenturyLink line into your home
willing to test this? Apparently, you can dial 811 on a disconnected
line and get to a telco switch board; I wouldn't recommend to anyone
dialing 911 for non-emergency reasons.

Thanks

Scott


From mattwj2002 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 20:02:49 2012
From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matthew Junk)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:02:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEGIDHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
References: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEGIDHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CADeMz-T-38HOV_vOi-oe0ux=A5K==Dp8J66jfG27ZHx0RHg5FQ@mail.gmail.com>

You can get a "basic phone line"  through Century Link for I believe $15.99.

The FCC limits how much phone companies can charge for basic service.

But that has no long distance, no caller id, etc.

It would be a real phone line and you could make and receive local calls
too.

Just though thought.

On a side note, most people don't know about basic cable either.  You can
get just the local channels for about the same cost through Comcast.  Good
for people on a tight budget without a good antenna. :)

Matt

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:

> My Phonepower VOIP service has a 911 feature...       and GREAT web
> features..  emailed voicemail, etc.  .. plus free "softphone" SW to use
> phone as if home via my laptop without router hardware wherever I have a
> WiFi connection.  $14.95/mo.  FAR better than Vonage, cheaper, and no
> hidden
> costs.  If someone gives my ID when signing up, then we'd both get a $10
> one-time discount.  This is not intended as a commercial message, and I'm
> just a subscriber.  I eliminated all of my landline service, but have 911
> service, 411, etc.
>
> Dunno about what you requested tho.
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of G Scott Walters
> > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 3:50 PM
> >
> > My household currently has local phone service with CenturyLink. Like
> > most people, we make most of our calls on our mobile phones. The primary
> > reason I've not considered going without a land line, is for 911
> > service. I have two kids, and would prefer that they are able to pickup
> > a regular handset, than try to find a prepaid cell phone in a drawer
> > somewhere.
> >
> > Its come to my attention that some states require emergency phone
> > service, even on a disconnected line. This is sometimes called a 'soft
> > line' or 'warm line'. But the only information I can find on this law is
> > from a 3 year old article from Consumer Reports here:
> > http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/05/update-about-9
> 11-and-disconnected-landlines.html
>
> Can anyone definatively say that Minnesota does or does not have this
> requirement? Anyone with a disconnected CenturyLink line into your home
> willing to test this? Apparently, you can dial 811 on a disconnected
> line and get to a telco switch board; I wouldn't recommend to anyone
> dialing 911 for non-emergency reasons.
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120121/f813bcdf/attachment-0001.html>

From gscottwalters at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 20:34:17 2012
From: gscottwalters at gmail.com (G Scott Walters)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:34:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <5E94DB6E-7BFC-4D2D-BCB3-D6C7A5686B32@me.com>
References: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
	<CAO2sc9TnhA_8ephjdR8WTp8g18KyNFOtt6ScLZWUkqZNnhpUug@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E94DB6E-7BFC-4D2D-BCB3-D6C7A5686B32@me.com>
Message-ID: <E290706B-AD1A-4FD3-BB7B-C8E0C8EC6BE7@gmail.com>

Ryan may be on to something. 
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=403.025&year=2011&keyword_type=all&keyword=Emergency+phone+service

 Subdivision three of statute 403.025 states:
Subd. 3.Connected telecommunications service provider requirements. Every owner and operator of a wire-line or wireless circuit switched or packet-based telecommunications system connected to the public switched telephone network shall design and maintain the system to dial the 911 number without charge to the caller.


That seems to at least infer that I should be able to disconnect my line and still be able to dial 911 in an emergency.

Someone else suggested the @CenturyLinkHelp twitter account. I'm going to hit them up and confirm as well.

--
G. Scott Walters


On Jan 21, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> On Jan 21, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Steve McGrath wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:50 PM, G Scott Walters
>> <gscottwalters at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> My household currently has local phone service with CenturyLink. Like most
>>> people, we make most of our calls on our mobile phones. The primary reason
>>> I've not considered going without a land line, is for 911 service. I have
>>> two kids, and would prefer that they are able to pickup a regular handset,
>>> than try to find a prepaid cell phone in a drawer somewhere.
>>> 
>>> Its come to my attention that some states require emergency phone service,
>>> even on a disconnected line. This is sometimes called a 'soft line' or 'warm
>>> line'. But the only information I can find on this law is from a 3 year old
>>> article from Consumer Reports here:
>>> http://news.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/05/update-about-911-and-disconnected-landlines.html
>>> 
>>> Can anyone definatively say that Minnesota does or does not have this
>>> requirement? Anyone with a disconnected CenturyLink line into your ho
>>> willing to test this? Apparently, you can dial 811 on a disconnected line
>>> and get to a telco switch board; I wouldn't recommend to anyone dialing 911
>>> for non-emergency reasons.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Scott
>> 
>> Sounds like you really ought to just ask Centurylink to be sure.
>> They're actually incredibly responsive via Twitter; @CenturyLinkHelp.
>> 
>> -Steve
> 
> Actually, this is a question for the Minnesota Statutes lookup or the Secretary of State's office.
> https://www.revisor.mn.gov/pubs/
> 
> Your typical CSR won't know this with certainty.
> 
> This law, though, has been on the books for a very long time.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120121/b1e6ce4f/attachment.html>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Sat Jan 21 20:39:05 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 20:39:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <E290706B-AD1A-4FD3-BB7B-C8E0C8EC6BE7@gmail.com>
References: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
	<CAO2sc9TnhA_8ephjdR8WTp8g18KyNFOtt6ScLZWUkqZNnhpUug@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E94DB6E-7BFC-4D2D-BCB3-D6C7A5686B32@me.com>
	<E290706B-AD1A-4FD3-BB7B-C8E0C8EC6BE7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF762B02-1521-493C-A967-4B0B306BAE70@me.com>

On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:34 PM, G Scott Walters wrote:

> Ryan may be on to something. 
> https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=403.025&year=2011&keyword_type=all&keyword=Emergency+phone+service
> 
>  Subdivision three of statute 403.025 states:
> Subd. 3.Connected telecommunications service provider requirements.Every owner and operator of a wire-line or wireless circuit switched or packet-based telecommunications system connected to the public switched telephone network shall design and maintain the system to dial the 911 number without charge to the caller.
> 
> 
> That seems to at least infer that I should be able to disconnect my line and still be able to dial 911 in an emergency.

Yes, this means cell phones also must be capable of dialing 911 without a valid phone number.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120121/52a987a8/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 21:35:21 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:35:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
References: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201212059410.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, G Scott Walters wrote:

> My household currently has local phone service with CenturyLink. Like 
> most people, we make most of our calls on our mobile phones. The primary 
> reason I've not considered going without a land line, is for 911 
> service. I have two kids, and would prefer that they are able to pickup 
> a regular handset, than try to find a prepaid cell phone in a drawer 
> somewhere.


I'll recommend something you might like.  I went for maybe 7 years without 
a landline, but then decided I wanted one, mostly because I was getting 
poor reception with my cell phone in my home.  I decided to try an 
internet phone option.

I tried Magic Jack first, on a friend's recommendation, and I didn't like 
it.  It required a Windows box and it made ads pop up.  If the Windows box 
was turned off, you couldn't receive a call.

Next I tried NetTalk Duo.  That plugs between router and phone and uses no 
computer.  There's nothing to it.  It works great but there's a little 
delay due to digital/analog conversion that makes quick back-and-forth 
conversations a little tricky, but I'm used to that.  The sound quality is 
great.  I use Google Voice -- another great thing, in my book, and free -- 
so that people call my Google Voice number and I can answer with my cell, 
my NetTalk home phone or my office phone.  The Google Voice voicemail is 
amazing, so I use it even for calls that go directly to my cell phone.

The NetTalk Duo is available now for $50 in the first year, which includes 
the device, and $30 for each additional year.  That's only $2.50/mo after 
you've paid for the device and you pay nothing for calls anywhere in the 
US.  For international calls I use Google Voice -- it gives us an 
excellent price with no extra charges (unlike calling cards which have 
*always* chopped our minutes short).

Anyway, I just wanted to recommend that because it has been very nice for 
us.  I don't work for NetTalk or Google and I don't know anyone who does. 
It's just a nice combination of services.

Regarding 911 -- I'm sure there was something I was supposed to do to 
register my number.  I don't remember what it was and I probably didn't do 
it.  I should look into that.

Best,
Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Jan 21 21:43:28 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 21:43:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <CADeMz-T-38HOV_vOi-oe0ux=A5K==Dp8J66jfG27ZHx0RHg5FQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F1B3323.1010702@gmail.com>
	<KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLAEGIDHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>
	<CADeMz-T-38HOV_vOi-oe0ux=A5K==Dp8J66jfG27ZHx0RHg5FQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201212140400.19142@Dragon>

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Matthew Junk wrote:

> You can get a "basic phone line"? through Century Link for I believe $15.99.

I recently canceled my DSL and was shocked to see Centurylink were still 
charging me $50 a month. Almost HALF of which was "taxes" and 
"surcharges".

They would NOT drop THEIR part of the price though. At all. When I told 
them it's ridiculous for me to pay that much for a line I really only keep 
for legacy purposes and hardly ever use, the guy said "Yeah, I'd cancel 
that too."

So I did.


-Yaron

--

From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 21 23:27:47 2012
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:27:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201212140400.19142@Dragon>
Message-ID: <KBELLBDJKGDCAHIDFNLLOEGIDHAA.cncole@earthlink.net>

That's why I went to the VOIP line for my "regular phones" around my house,
and kept my old number.    I had to pay over $60/mo for crappy phone
serviice, no web features and no long distance.  The $14.95/mo service from
Phonepower has unlimited national plus some international and great web
access features.  I disconnected the local lines outside and plugged my
router in a phone jack so now all phones work well and have 911,  etc.


Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org]On Behalf Of Yaron
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 9:43 PM
> To: TCLUG
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Matthew Junk wrote:
>
> > You can get a "basic phone line"? through Century Link for I
> believe $15.99.
>
> I recently canceled my DSL and was shocked to see Centurylink were still
> charging me $50 a month. Almost HALF of which was "taxes" and
> "surcharges".
>
> They would NOT drop THEIR part of the price though. At all. When I told
> them it's ridiculous for me to pay that much for a line I really
> only keep
> for legacy purposes and hardly ever use, the guy said "Yeah, I'd cancel
> that too."
>
> So I did.
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --


From n0nas at amsat.org  Sun Jan 22 12:19:01 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:19:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>

AFAIK, Comcast Basic service, and probably the other cable companies, 
provide just the public cable access and local government channels as 
part of the "free" service. It DOES NOT provide the cable version of 
local OTA TV channels. When they talk about receiving local TV channels, 
they mean the Over-The-Air channels are received with your regular 
roof-top antenna or rabbit ears. I'm not even sure if you get a cable 
box with "Basic" service or have to use your cable-ready TV tuner.

The requirements for minimum basic (or universal) service are part of 
the public utilities charter under which the cable company operates. 
Since the local government (cities) want to get their word out, and the 
cable companies are forced to operate the public cable access system, 
those are the freebies you get. Everything else is a money-making service.

I don't think any of that has changed since HDTV came in. I reverted to 
"basic" service when I shut off cable TV service many years ago. I 
originally did it to keep the wire active and to save $5 a month on 
Internet charges. I think they have plugged that loophole since. It has 
probably been over 8 years since I hooked anything up to the cable....

Doug.

From ryanjcole at me.com  Sun Jan 22 12:21:04 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:21:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>

They include the HD channels - my parents pay $20/month for their TV to lower their cable internet a bit. They get all the HD channels and up to 24 on Comcast. Sadly, for my father, ESPN is 25.

On Jan 22, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Doug Reed wrote:

> AFAIK, Comcast Basic service, and probably the other cable companies, provide just the public cable access and local government channels as part of the "free" service. It DOES NOT provide the cable version of local OTA TV channels. When they talk about receiving local TV channels, they mean the Over-The-Air channels are received with your regular roof-top antenna or rabbit ears. I'm not even sure if you get a cable box with "Basic" service or have to use your cable-ready TV tuner.
> 
> The requirements for minimum basic (or universal) service are part of the public utilities charter under which the cable company operates. Since the local government (cities) want to get their word out, and the cable companies are forced to operate the public cable access system, those are the freebies you get. Everything else is a money-making service.
> 
> I don't think any of that has changed since HDTV came in. I reverted to "basic" service when I shut off cable TV service many years ago. I originally did it to keep the wire active and to save $5 a month on Internet charges. I think they have plugged that loophole since. It has probably been over 8 years since I hooked anything up to the cable....
> 
> Doug.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Sun Jan 22 12:27:25 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:27:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
Message-ID: <1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>


On Jan 22, 2012, at 12:21 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> They include the HD channels - my parents pay $20/month for their TV to lower their cable internet a bit. They get all the HD channels and up to 24 on Comcast. Sadly, for my father, ESPN is 25.
By "all the HD channels" I mean all the OTA HD. Across the wire.

> On Jan 22, 2012, at 12:19 PM, Doug Reed wrote:
> 
>> AFAIK, Comcast Basic service, and probably the other cable companies, provide just the public cable access and local government channels as part of the "free" service. It DOES NOT provide the cable version of local OTA TV channels. When they talk about receiving local TV channels, they mean the Over-The-Air channels are received with your regular roof-top antenna or rabbit ears. I'm not even sure if you get a cable box with "Basic" service or have to use your cable-ready TV tuner.
>> 
>> The requirements for minimum basic (or universal) service are part of the public utilities charter under which the cable company operates. Since the local government (cities) want to get their word out, and the cable companies are forced to operate the public cable access system, those are the freebies you get. Everything else is a money-making service.
>> 
>> I don't think any of that has changed since HDTV came in. I reverted to "basic" service when I shut off cable TV service many years ago. I originally did it to keep the wire active and to save $5 a month on Internet charges. I think they have plugged that loophole since. It has probably been over 8 years since I hooked anything up to the cable....
>> 
>> Doug.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From n0nas at amsat.org  Sun Jan 22 13:00:18 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 13:00:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1898.1327203358.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1898.1327203358.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4F1C5CC2.50506@amsat.org>

I forgot to say I dropped my landline about 6 months ago and use only my 
cellphone now. Since I get 0-3 calls a week, I'm using Virgin Mobile 
Pay-as-you-go service. Although I'm considering changing to Cricket for 
similar service since they charge $1 for any day you use the service, 
doesn't matter how long you talk. I think that would extend my budget a 
little further and let me make long phone calls during any single day. 
But I'd have to get a new phone.....

I was looking at the options for VOIP phone service, starting with Magic 
Jack but had made no decision. I'll take a look at that NetTalk service. 
Magic Jack now has a stand-alone hardware based system too, sounds like 
similar pricing.

If a company sells "phone service", they must support the 911 location 
services. When you buy home VOIP service, one of the things you must do 
is register the equipment address for use with the 911 system. But if 
they don't sell phone service, they don't need to provide 911 info. I 
think that is why Google Voice was usually not advertised as phone 
service. It is just VOIP service that happens to let you make calls to 
outside phone numbers.

Maybe that has changed, but that is the way I understood it a couple 
years ago....

I have to say that the main problem I have with Internet-based VOIP 
service is that when power fails, so does the phone service. If you drop 
power anywhere along the cable/DSL line back to your local head-end, you 
loose Internet and VOIP at the same time. I'm not 100% sure it is the 
same with DSL service, but since your cable or DSL router probably shut 
off when power did, most likely your phone service did too.

OTOH, an old fashion POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) landline 
telephone keeps working because it is powered by batteries at the 
central office feeding your area. I'm not saying that DSL service didn't 
quit, I don't remember for sure, but I could still pick up the POTS 
phone and get a dial tone as long as the wires were not broken.

If you want to have phone service in an emergency or disaster situation, 
POTS phone service is the way to go. In any major emergency you SHOULD 
NOT rely on your cellphone for emergency aid. In any really major event, 
cell towers go down or simply become overloaded by too many people 
trying to use them and not enough circuits. In a major event, like the 
I-35 bridge collapse a few years ago, the big news organizations come in 
and the first thing they do is dial up several cellphones so they have a 
permanent connection to their studio. And they don't hang up till they 
go home.

If you chew up 10-20-30 circuits that way, there is little enough for 
the rest of us (and emergency officials) to use. Remember, the 
capability of any specific cell tower is based on the daily expected 
usage by people in the area, plus a small factor for peak use. Just 
because it is "the phone company" doesn't mean the resources are 
unlimited. When power failed on the eastern seacoast a few years ago, 
people couldn't call out on their cellphones, but they were able to send 
text messages because text requires a lot less bandwidth.

Doug.




From n0nas at amsat.org  Sun Jan 22 17:09:01 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:09:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
Message-ID: <4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>

OK, Maybe it has changed. Or maybe they have Basic and I'm talking about 
Universal service. The cable "service" I'm talking about is $0 a month. 
I'd think that for $240 a year you could afford a pretty good roof 
antenna for OTA HDTV. Of course, the only TV I watch are shows I 
download from the Internet and the last time I had a TV working at home 
must be over 5 years ago.... I haven't even bothered hooking up the 
digital converter box...

Doug.

Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
> On Jan 22, 2012, at 12:21 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> They include the HD channels - my parents pay $20/month for their TV to lower their cable internet a bit. They get all the HD channels and up to 24 on Comcast. Sadly, for my father, ESPN is 25.
> By "all the HD channels" I mean all the OTA HD. Across the wire.

From mattwj2002 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 17:25:51 2012
From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matthew Junk)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:25:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ditching the land line
In-Reply-To: <4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to be off topic again but I wanted to reply to Doug.

As far as ditching cable or satellite all together.  I can get 32
subchannels with a good over air antenna.  In addition, with a Roku (some
TVs and DVD players will work too), I can watch Amazon on Demand, Netflix,
Hulu Plus, etc.

Amazon on Demand is paid per movie or show.  (They also have a prime
option.)
Netflix is like $8 per month.
Hulu Plus is like $8 per month.

With this who needs cable or satellite?

That is my two cents.

Matt

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> wrote:

> OK, Maybe it has changed. Or maybe they have Basic and I'm talking about
> Universal service. The cable "service" I'm talking about is $0 a month. I'd
> think that for $240 a year you could afford a pretty good roof antenna for
> OTA HDTV. Of course, the only TV I watch are shows I download from the
> Internet and the last time I had a TV working at home must be over 5 years
> ago.... I haven't even bothered hooking up the digital converter box...
>
> Doug.
>
>
> Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2012, at 12:21 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>  They include the HD channels - my parents pay $20/month for their TV to
>>> lower their cable internet a bit. They get all the HD channels and up to 24
>>> on Comcast. Sadly, for my father, ESPN is 25.
>>>
>> By "all the HD channels" I mean all the OTA HD. Across the wire.
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120122/5f2c5ee9/attachment-0001.html>

From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org  Sun Jan 22 18:03:45 2012
From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:03:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] For Trade
Message-ID: <4F1CA3E1.3060408@tomobiki.dyndns.org>

I have a Digital AlphaStation 200 for trade. I haven't powered it up in 
ages so it needs to go. Tell me what you have in trade and I'll make a 
choice of who gets it. I'm also willing to give it away if no one wants 
to trade. I just figure it is a good way to move the junk around. You 
get something new to play with and so do I.

Thanks for looking,
Joseph

From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org  Sun Jan 22 18:00:04 2012
From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:00:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] For Trade
Message-ID: <4F1CA304.3070500@tomobiki.dyndns.org>

I have a Digital AlphaStation 200 for trade. I haven't powered it up in 
ages so it needs to go. Tell me what you have in trade and I'll make a 
choice of who gets it. I'm also willing to give it away if no one wants 
to trade. I just figure it is a good way to move the junk around. You 
get something new to pla


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 18:07:26 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:07:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Matthew Junk wrote:

> As far as ditching cable or satellite all together.  I can get 32 
> subchannels with a good over air antenna.  In addition, with a Roku 
> (some TVs and DVD players will work too), I can watch Amazon on Demand, 
> Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc.
>
> Amazon on Demand is paid per movie or show.  (They also have a prime
> option.)
> Netflix is like $8 per month.
> Hulu Plus is like $8 per month.
>
> With this who needs cable or satellite?


Exactly.  We have Netflix, with streaming, a Roku, which works great (and 
has Linux inside) and we still have DirecTV and it costs something like 
$1000/year.  I'm ready to dump that, but I'm pretty used to recording a 
lot of programming via DirecTV DVR that I can get over the air (OTA).  I 
would like to record the OTA programs with my computer.

Are many of you using MythTV?  I don't know much about it.  I'm thinking 
it would be great to have a computer-based way of programming to record TV 
shows, and I think MythTV does that.  Do I need a special card for the 
computer to be able to take in digital info from an antenna?  How would 
you recommend I get started?

Mike

From tlunde at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 18:10:14 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:10:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <483351F7-4761-44B8-8374-CE5AB33CCEA0@gmail.com>

Mike -

Step 1. Buy a HD HomeRun
Step 2. Install Mythbuntu

There is no step 3

;-)

Thomas


On Jan 22, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Matthew Junk wrote:
> 
>> As far as ditching cable or satellite all together.  I can get 32 subchannels with a good over air antenna.  In addition, with a Roku (some TVs and DVD players will work too), I can watch Amazon on Demand, Netflix, Hulu Plus, etc.
>> 
>> Amazon on Demand is paid per movie or show.  (They also have a prime
>> option.)
>> Netflix is like $8 per month.
>> Hulu Plus is like $8 per month.
>> 
>> With this who needs cable or satellite?
> 
> 
> Exactly.  We have Netflix, with streaming, a Roku, which works great (and has Linux inside) and we still have DirecTV and it costs something like $1000/year.  I'm ready to dump that, but I'm pretty used to recording a lot of programming via DirecTV DVR that I can get over the air (OTA).  I would like to record the OTA programs with my computer.
> 
> Are many of you using MythTV?  I don't know much about it.  I'm thinking it would be great to have a computer-based way of programming to record TV shows, and I think MythTV does that.  Do I need a special card for the computer to be able to take in digital info from an antenna?  How would you recommend I get started?
> 
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jjensen at apache.org  Sun Jan 22 18:25:45 2012
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 18:25:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKumxBzYftYbpCZGR08qHaEkQS1mDQ5RH20bomSqP9qCz8E+7g@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, MythTV works great.  Been using it for about 3 years.  Silicon
Dust HDHomeRun is definitely the way to go...

To get started, have a server with a lot of free disk space (you know
video is huge), order HDHomeRun, setup MythTV.
You should review the MythTV user list for the very common question of
what's needed, as well as how others have setup a viewing PC/TV.

For us, I ran a 25 foot VGA/audio cable from the family room PC to the
big screen.
We use MythWeb for our scheduling interaction, and MythTV Player for
watching (it's a windoze pc).


On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Matthew Junk wrote:
>
>> As far as ditching cable or satellite all together. ?I can get 32
>> subchannels with a good over air antenna. ?In addition, with a Roku (some
>> TVs and DVD players will work too), I can watch Amazon on Demand, Netflix,
>> Hulu Plus, etc.
>>
>> Amazon on Demand is paid per movie or show. ?(They also have a prime
>> option.)
>> Netflix is like $8 per month.
>> Hulu Plus is like $8 per month.
>>
>> With this who needs cable or satellite?
>
>
>
> Exactly. ?We have Netflix, with streaming, a Roku, which works great (and
> has Linux inside) and we still have DirecTV and it costs something like
> $1000/year. ?I'm ready to dump that, but I'm pretty used to recording a lot
> of programming via DirecTV DVR that I can get over the air (OTA). ?I would
> like to record the OTA programs with my computer.
>
> Are many of you using MythTV? ?I don't know much about it. ?I'm thinking it
> would be great to have a computer-based way of programming to record TV
> shows, and I think MythTV does that. ?Do I need a special card for the
> computer to be able to take in digital info from an antenna? ?How would you
> recommend I get started?
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 20:28:28 2012
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 20:28:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <483351F7-4761-44B8-8374-CE5AB33CCEA0@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<483351F7-4761-44B8-8374-CE5AB33CCEA0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKGC1njAbi88ooYN7-swWTRhurj5jOndO36h3d6434OYp3DYfw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Thomas Lunde <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike -
>
> Step 1. Buy a HD HomeRun
> Step 2. Install Mythbuntu
>
> There is no step 3
>
> ;-)
>
> Thomas

Well, step 3, is beat your head against stupid bugs in mythTV over and
over again.  Its not exactly user-friendly, or well tested, outside of
the scope of how a couple of the main maintainers use it.
If your use case differs well, you don't get a lot of help.

That said... I've been running an installation for a few years now on
a purpose-built system.  It mostly works well - if your reception is
good.  I get most channels, but not all, OTA.

We probably only use it for OTA recording about 1/3 of the time
anyway.  The rest of the time - that system is used for playing Hulu
or whatever in a webbrowser on the computer.  Or watching movies that
I have archived there with Handbrake.

I have a http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr2250.html and a
http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1600.html

They both work well with modern linux distros these days.  The remote
control that comes with the 2250 works well.  But a HDHomeRun is even
easier to configure as a capture device, so I'm told.  Wasn't out yet
when I built mine - and at the time, I still needed to record some
analog signals - so thats why I got the 1600 as well.

Stick with NVidia video cards.    MythTV can fully utilize them for
decoding HD via VDPAU.  So you don't need much horsepower on the rest
of the system.  No idea what the state of the world is for Intel /
ATI.  Probably not good.  Check the specs on the MythTV site to make
sure you get a video card with enough horsepower to do full HD
decoding on the card.  When I was looking - I couldn't find a fanless
card that could do it.

HD Video runs about 6GB per hour OTA.  Plan your disk space accordingly.

Getting 5.1 channel audio set up from a S/PDIF / toslink connection
out of the back of the computer to your external speakers can be
tricky.  But it does work.  Pretty cool getting full HD video and 5.1
channel surround sound off of a pair of rabbit ears.

For watching a video collection the MythVideo portion can be rather
maddening as well, when it decides that your programs actually have a
different name.  Sigh.

But once you bite the bullet, and dedicate a computer to your TV, you
can also install XBMC for watching your video collection.

We really haven't watched "tv" in our house since I built it.

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 01:56:02 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 01:56:02 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <483351F7-4761-44B8-8374-CE5AB33CCEA0@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<483351F7-4761-44B8-8374-CE5AB33CCEA0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230146390.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> Step 1. Buy a HD HomeRun
> Step 2. Install Mythbuntu
>
> There is no step 3
>
> ;-)


I like the concise answer.  Apparently others agree that HD HomeRun is the 
thing I need.  So now I'm trying to understand it.  I guess I can get this 
for about $200:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/models/hdhr3-cc/

Does "three tuners" make it possible to record up to three shows at the 
same time?

What is reception like?  Does this need an antenna, or is it its own 
antenna.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 02:01:46 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 02:01:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBzYftYbpCZGR08qHaEkQS1mDQ5RH20bomSqP9qCz8E+7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAKumxBzYftYbpCZGR08qHaEkQS1mDQ5RH20bomSqP9qCz8E+7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230156320.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Jeff Jensen wrote:

> To get started, have a server with a lot of free disk space (you know
> video is huge), order HDHomeRun, setup MythTV.

The Silicon Dust site says 4-8 GB/hour.  Does that sound right?  I have a 
few TB of space on several drives, so I should be OK for awhile, maybe 
even until the HDD prices come back down to where they were this summer.


> For us, I ran a 25 foot VGA/audio cable from the family room PC to the 
> big screen.
>
> We use MythWeb for our scheduling interaction, and MythTV Player for 
> watching (it's a windoze pc).

I have an Ubuntu box hooked up to my HDTV via DVI-to-HDMI cable.  It's 
working great for watching DVD ISOs and web stuff.  So I guess I have that 
part solved.

There will be plenty more to figure out.

Thanks for the pointers.

Mike

From n0nas at amsat.org  Mon Jan 23 10:00:00 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:00:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 85, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1970.1327305377.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1970.1327305377.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <4F1D8400.1090207@amsat.org>

The specific model Mike linked to is for cable TV subscription service. 
The $130 HDHomeRun Dual looks like a better option to me. It even sounds 
like it is cheaper than two of the older HDTV tuner cards. I wasn't 
aware of this option but it is very interesting.....

Yes, Dual tuner means you should be able to receive two channels at the 
same time. Add another box and receive two more channels. Since it is 
already Ethernet output, it sounds like it should integrate into a home 
network pretty easily. You still need a fast server to store the 
programs for later viewing. I haven't read the docs but I'd expect it 
simply outputs the MPEG data stream to the user computer which then must 
display it or encode it for storage.

And YES, you still need a decent TV antenna. Depending where in the city 
you are and if you want ALL the OTA channels, you might even need two or 
more antennas. But most of us will settle for pointing at Shoreview and 
take what we can get. I think the other channels come from the IDS 
building, but I'm not sure.

How the antenna is installed is a trade-off you choose for how well and 
reliably you want to receive the channels. If you use rabbit ears on the 
tuner or a small antenna inside the room, expect to have the picture 
freeze or pixelate when people or things move around the room or around 
the house. An antenna inside the attic may work fine if it is fairly 
high, you are not a long way from the transmitters, and it isn't 
pointing into a steel roof or tall building next door.

The best option will always be an antenna outside with a clear shot at 
the transmit site and fed with good dual-shielded RG6 or quad-shielded 
cable by preference. You will probably find that a 100' run of coax is a 
bad thing. A long run then splitting the signal to go to multiple TVs is 
even worse. And you will probably find that any "amplified TV splitter" 
is worse than useless in the metro area because signals are strong to 
start with so the unit overloads and destroys the signal before it 
splits it.....

Doug.

tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org wrote:
> I like the concise answer.  Apparently others agree that HD HomeRun is the
> thing I need.  So now I'm trying to understand it.  I guess I can get this
> for about $200:
>
> http://www.silicondust.com/products/models/hdhr3-cc/
>
> Does "three tuners" make it possible to record up to three shows at the
> same time?
>
> What is reception like?  Does this need an antenna, or is it its own
> antenna.
>
> Mike

From aeshva at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 10:15:26 2012
From: aeshva at gmail.com (aeshva)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:15:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
Message-ID: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>

I have a Nook Color and would like to root it and maybe install Cyanogen or Gingerbread. I have been looking for how to do that, and have come to the conclusion that I need assisrance. Is there anyone who could help?

Sent from my NOOK

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 10:47:24 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:47:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_tiPGLkhqzP9n-E95tBgnwT5uMKsub0LmrtqXzTyTi1xog@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:15 AM, aeshva <aeshva at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a Nook Color and would like to root it and maybe install Cyanogen or Gingerbread. I have been looking for how to do that, and have come to the conclusion that I need assisrance. Is there anyone who could help?
>
> Sent from my NOOK

I can say from experience that Cyanogenmod is probably the best option
out there for a Nook Color.  The current version (7.1.0) is based on
Gingerbread, and has some tablet tweaks installed by default to make
up for the fact that the Nook Color doesn't have as many buttons as a
normal Android phone would.
That said, Cyanogenmod has a Wiki set up with instructions for each of
their supported devices.
Have you tried going though this process?
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/Barnes_%26_Noble_Nook_Color:_Full_Update_Guide
It can be frustrating, and sometimes some things don't work right on
the first try, but their guides are usually pretty good.  If you run
into roadblocks, asking or searching for specific questions along the
way can be very helpful.  Relatively speaking, CM7.1 has been out for
quite some time now, so any issue you run into has probably happened
to someone else by now, too.
- Justin

From tlunde at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 11:00:59 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:00:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 85, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <4F1D8400.1090207@amsat.org>
References: <mailman.1970.1327305377.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1D8400.1090207@amsat.org>
Message-ID: <C94E0171-0F6C-4E58-9205-5FB02E03827A@gmail.com>



On Jan 23, 2012, at 10:00 AM, Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> wrote:

> The specific model Mike linked to is for cable TV subscription service. The $130 HDHomeRun Dual looks like a better option to me. It even sounds like it is cheaper than two of the older HDTV tuner cards. I wasn't aware of this option but it is very interesting.....


$100 from Newegg. I use this. 


> 
> Yes, Dual tuner means you should be able to receive two channels at the same time. Add another box and receive two more channels. Since it is already Ethernet output, it sounds like it should integrate into a home network pretty easily. You still need a fast server to store the programs for later viewing.


Fast?  Nope. 25Mbit/sec OTA TV is about 3 MB/sec to the hard drive. Modern SATA discs can do 20x this without breaking a sweat.  Very little CPU is required for a backed server; an Atom will do easily. 

A HD front end either needs 2.5+ gigahertz dual core w/out a good video card, or less with one. I have a 5 year old ATI card in a box that has a 4 year old dual core Pentium and HD playback is flawless. 


> I haven't read the docs but I'd expect it simply outputs the MPEG data stream to the user computer which then must display it or encode it for storage.

The stream is already encoded for storage. 

That said, I do use a quad core box on the backend and a Myth "user job" there to transcode everything into a smaller space for long term storage and so that I can play the shows on my phone & tablet. 



From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Jan 23 11:05:26 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:05:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>

Wait a bit. Cynogenmod 9 is proooobably coming out within the next month 
or so. I've already got an alpha version on my touchpad and I love it.


On Mon, 23 Jan 2012, aeshva wrote:

> I have a Nook Color and would like to root it and maybe install Cyanogen or Gingerbread. I have been looking for how to do that, and have come to the conclusion that I need assisrance. Is there anyone who could help?
>
> Sent from my NOOK
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--

From n0nas at amsat.org  Mon Jan 23 11:25:24 2012
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:25:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <C94E0171-0F6C-4E58-9205-5FB02E03827A@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1970.1327305377.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1D8400.1090207@amsat.org>
	<C94E0171-0F6C-4E58-9205-5FB02E03827A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F1D9804.40900@amsat.org>

Thanks Tom, not only the facts, but a discount price source too. :-) 
Having a script set to transcode the files smaller is something I'd 
probably want too. The files are much too large for me to save as-is.
I looked it up, by default the ATSC data stream is MPEG2 format and 
around 3MB/s.

Doug.

Thomas Lunde wrote:
> $100 from Newegg. I use this.
> The stream is already encoded for storage.
> That said, I do use a quad core box on the backend and a Myth "user job" there to transcode everything into a smaller space for long term storage and so that I can play the shows on my phone&  tablet.

From aeshva at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 11:25:51 2012
From: aeshva at gmail.com (John Nielsen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:25:51 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>
Message-ID: <CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>

Very nice. I will wait. I like the nook, but B & N's app store is atrocious.
On Jan 23, 2012 11:05 AM, "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>
> Wait a bit. Cynogenmod 9 is proooobably coming out within the next month
or so. I've already got an alpha version on my touchpad and I love it.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012, aeshva wrote:
>
>> I have a Nook Color and would like to root it and maybe install Cyanogen
or Gingerbread. I have been looking for how to do that, and have come to
the conclusion that I need assisrance. Is there anyone who could help?
>>
>> Sent from my NOOK
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120123/b402cb39/attachment-0001.html>

From j at packetgod.com  Mon Jan 23 11:28:13 2012
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:28:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>
	<CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADr-735DGN-nuKs=ro6gby5VHzx2zHZwjtF09STKFMEuWbADcA@mail.gmail.com>

Just in case anyone wants their own Buy.com has a deal today on them
for 139$ each

http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-color-by-barnes-noble-wifi-ereader/221376447.html?listingid=140072914

I've been holding off getting a tablet but for 139 I might just get
one and then buy a nice one later down the road.

--j

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:25 AM, John Nielsen <aeshva at gmail.com> wrote:
> Very nice. I will wait. I like the nook, but B & N's app store is atrocious.
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2012 11:05 AM, "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wait a bit. Cynogenmod 9 is proooobably coming out within the next month
>> or so. I've already got an alpha version on my touchpad and I love it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012, aeshva wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Nook Color and would like to root it and maybe install Cyanogen
>>> or Gingerbread. I have been looking for how to do that, and have come to the
>>> conclusion that I need assisrance. Is there anyone who could help?
>>>
>>> Sent from my NOOK
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> -Yaron
>>
>> --
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Jan 23 13:21:08 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:21:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>
	<CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231313430.8244@Dragon>

Also, as Justin pointed out, the cyanogen wiki tends to have very good 
instructions. I've rooted and installed cyanogenmod on many devices using 
instructions fromt he wiki. Heck, my mom rooted and Kindle Fire with 
instructions from the web (and me going "It's ok, you can do it!")

My advice is read through the instructions a few times. Get ADB installed, 
see if you can do the non-destructive bits, and see how comfortable you 
feel with it. I know it seems complicated but the instructions available 
ARE very good.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012, John Nielsen wrote:

> 
> Very nice. I will wait. I like the nook, but B & N's app store is atrocious.
> On Jan 23, 2012 11:05 AM, "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wait a bit. Cynogenmod 9 is proooobably coming out within the next month
> or so. I've already got an alpha version on my touchpad and I love it.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Jan 2012, aeshva wrote:
> >
> >> I have a Nook Color and would like to root it and maybe install Cyanogen
> or Gingerbread. I have been looking for how to do that, and have come to the
> conclusion that I need assisrance. Is there anyone who could help?
> >>
> >> Sent from my NOOK
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>
> >
> >
> > -Yaron
> >
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
>


-Yaron

--

From bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 19:41:24 2012
From: bahamutzero8825 at gmail.com (Andrew Berg)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:41:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 85, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <C94E0171-0F6C-4E58-9205-5FB02E03827A@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1970.1327305377.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1D8400.1090207@amsat.org>
	<C94E0171-0F6C-4E58-9205-5FB02E03827A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F1E0C44.5060704@gmail.com>

On 1/23/2012 11:00 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
> Fast?  Nope. 25Mbit/sec OTA TV 
Where? Last time I captured OTA HDTV, one station was ~14.5 and the rest
were ~13.

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 19:49:41 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:49:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <CADr-735DGN-nuKs=ro6gby5VHzx2zHZwjtF09STKFMEuWbADcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>
	<CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADr-735DGN-nuKs=ro6gby5VHzx2zHZwjtF09STKFMEuWbADcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_tj9_xJXV+X5uRNBPeeBQaetkpkhAUrVjPoyPqkMoWt6VQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:28 AM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
> Just in case anyone wants their own Buy.com has a deal today on them
> for 139$ each
>
> http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-color-by-barnes-noble-wifi-ereader/221376447.html?listingid=140072914
>
> I've been holding off getting a tablet but for 139 I might just get
> one and then buy a nice one later down the road.

Just so you know, buyer beware on refurb items from buy.com.  They
generally won't specify who refurbed the item, but it probably WASN'T
the manufacturer.  Then when you get the item, it doesn't come in
standard packaging, and it has a little slip in it saying that there
IS NO original manufacturer warranty, you can't return the item to
buy.com unless the item was DOA, and if you have problems later on,
call this number and they might fix it...if they feel like it.  You
would think I had been through that song and dance before or
something...
You can get a refurb nook color straight from BN for $149, so if
you're planning to void your warranty as soon as you get it, I guess
it's your call if it's worth saving $10.
- Justin

From jjensen at apache.org  Mon Jan 23 20:09:20 2012
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:09:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230156320.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAKumxBzYftYbpCZGR08qHaEkQS1mDQ5RH20bomSqP9qCz8E+7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230156320.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKumxBy_H3EFWAfmGgzBsDvu+KOW8NCMJRQ54hxWQUXYXx91ZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 23, 2012 2:02 AM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Jeff Jensen wrote:
>
>> To get started, have a server with a lot of free disk space (you know
>> video is huge), order HDHomeRun, setup MythTV.
>
>
> The Silicon Dust site says 4-8 GB/hour.  Does that sound right?  I have a
few TB of space on several drives, so I should be OK for awhile, maybe even
until the HDD prices come back down to where they were this summer.

Yes, correct.  Recordings tend to build up, so the more space you have the
less house cleaning needed!

>> For us, I ran a 25 foot VGA/audio cable from the family room PC to the
big screen.
>>
>> We use MythWeb for our scheduling interaction, and MythTV Player for
watching (it's a windoze pc).
>
>
> I have an Ubuntu box hooked up to my HDTV via DVI-to-HDMI cable.  It's
working great for watching DVD ISOs and web stuff.  So I guess I have that
part solved.
>
> There will be plenty more to figure out.

Indeed!  The initial Myth config/setup can have some frustrations and take
time.  The better you know *nix, the easier it is.
It is a hobbyists system, not an end-user system.  For example, last year
when I set up a pvr for my mom, it wasn't myth; I used Windows 7 Media
Center and still used the HDHomeRun (dual tuner model)

> Thanks for the pointers.
>
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120123/c627044e/attachment.html>

From j at packetgod.com  Mon Jan 23 20:59:40 2012
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:59:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <CAC3D_tj9_xJXV+X5uRNBPeeBQaetkpkhAUrVjPoyPqkMoWt6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>
	<CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADr-735DGN-nuKs=ro6gby5VHzx2zHZwjtF09STKFMEuWbADcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC3D_tj9_xJXV+X5uRNBPeeBQaetkpkhAUrVjPoyPqkMoWt6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADr-7373pWJ0mei6WzfYywAszfvAT2a=Yd7QUTRb-KwnRzAi1Q@mail.gmail.com>

You know I missed that it was a refurb, but still at this price I
don't plan on keeping it long :)  Even though I'd buy it from B&N
directly if its not a manufacturer referb for the extra 10$

--j

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:28 AM, J Cruit <j at packetgod.com> wrote:
>> Just in case anyone wants their own Buy.com has a deal today on them
>> for 139$ each
>>
>> http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-color-by-barnes-noble-wifi-ereader/221376447.html?listingid=140072914
>>
>> I've been holding off getting a tablet but for 139 I might just get
>> one and then buy a nice one later down the road.
>
> Just so you know, buyer beware on refurb items from buy.com. ?They
> generally won't specify who refurbed the item, but it probably WASN'T
> the manufacturer. ?Then when you get the item, it doesn't come in
> standard packaging, and it has a little slip in it saying that there
> IS NO original manufacturer warranty, you can't return the item to
> buy.com unless the item was DOA, and if you have problems later on,
> call this number and they might fix it...if they feel like it. ?You
> would think I had been through that song and dance before or
> something...
> You can get a refurb nook color straight from BN for $149, so if
> you're planning to void your warranty as soon as you get it, I guess
> it's your call if it's worth saving $10.
> - Justin
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From ron at ron-l-j.com  Mon Jan 23 22:40:21 2012
From: ron at ron-l-j.com (ron at ron-l-j.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 21:40:21 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] hdhomerun
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1327341602.30329.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1327341602.30329.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <964bc4068e6048a7de782e07f20f4a0f.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>

> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Nook Color (J Cruit)
>
>
Trade HD home run to who ever wants it at the next LUG meeting. I used it
and I really don't like tv that much. THe channels are good and high def
but as usual there is nothing I want to watch, unless you start hacking
the scrambled and pay per view channels. That kind of cracking is not
something I think is worth while doing.  works good paid 70 bucks for it
no big deal I made the cables for it you can have those. Im looking for
network gear i keep giving my wireless routers to my family. I always end
up having something they need..... trading is cool.
,ron
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 11:28:13 -0600
> From: J Cruit <j at packetgod.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Nook Color
> Message-ID:
> 	<CADr-735DGN-nuKs=ro6gby5VHzx2zHZwjtF09STKFMEuWbADcA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Just in case anyone wants their own Buy.com has a deal today on them
> for 139$ each
>
> http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-color-by-barnes-noble-wifi-ereader/221376447.html?listingid=140072914
>
> I've been holding off getting a tablet but for 139 I might just get
> one and then buy a nice one later down the road.
>
> --j
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:25 AM, John Nielsen <aeshva at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Very nice. I will wait. I like the nook, but B & N's app store is
>> atrocious.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 23, 2012 11:05 AM, "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wait a bit. Cynogenmod 9 is proooobably coming out within the next
>>> month
>>> or so. I've already got an alpha version on my touchpad and I love it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012, aeshva wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a Nook Color and would like to root it and maybe install
>>>> Cyanogen
>>>> or Gingerbread. I have been looking for how to do that, and have come
>>>> to the
>>>> conclusion that I need assisrance. Is there anyone who could help?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my NOOK
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Yaron
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 85, Issue 17
> ******************************************
>



From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Tue Jan 24 04:38:41 2012
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 04:38:41 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] illumian (Open Source Solaris) at Penguins Unbound
 Meeting January 28 2012
Message-ID: <4F1E8A31.5090900@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday January 28th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Linda Kateley Community Manager for Nexenta will be talking about a new 
illumos based distro called illumian. It is a combination of a 
Illumos(solaris) kernel with debian packaging. She will talk a little 
about how they got there and where they hope to go. Also will review 
some of the other illumos based distros.


I would like to thank,

ProGeek, LLC
doug at progeekonline.com
952.373.1057

Who has kindly loaned us a server to use as a install-fest server!
Thanks Doug!

Hope to see you there!

==>brian.


*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 12:20:17 2012
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:20:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice
Message-ID: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>

Hello, and a good day to you all.  I am in the process of migrating many 
of our companies applications currently running on an old Citrix 
Presentation Server 4.0 to the latest greatest XenApp Server.

On the old server we are using M$ Office 2003 (mainly Excel for the 
applications that export data).

The new XenApp server is going to need to have a spreadsheet 
application.  This leaves me with the following:
1)	I could use M$ Office 2003 again
2)	OpenOffice.org
3)	LibreOffice

I do have Office 2007 over here, but all the licenses I have do not 
allow for running in terminal server, and M$ Off 2010 is out as they 
finally caught on & have turn this into a licensing nightmare (not to 
mention the high cost for just Excel basically)

I have been playing with both ooo's & libre's CALC program.  They are 
both decent, but I am leaning more towards ooo.

I know Libre has become popular.  ooo source has been turned over to 
Apache, but the future still looks unclear to me.

My question is to you all if you had to use Excel 2003, OOO Calc, or 
Libre Calc in a production environment what would you use & why?

Thanks!

Mr. B-o-B

From harlan at bloomenterprises.org  Tue Jan 24 13:17:21 2012
From: harlan at bloomenterprises.org (Harlan H. Bloom)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:17:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice
In-Reply-To: <32936250.52.1327432497329.JavaMail.root@mailtmp1>
Message-ID: <26744915.54.1327432641663.JavaMail.root@mailtmp1>

My personal 2 cents worth is to avoid anything from m$ for any type of internal product.  This allows you to support more platforms than just m$.  One place I worked at years ago used Mozilla for every platform except m$, which used exploder.  Many of the problems around browsers were related to exploder on m$; the rest of the platforms had lot fewer problems.

I'm a bit biased - I run real operating systems on my hardware at home!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr. B-o-B" <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>
To: "TCLUG" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:20:17 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice

Hello, and a good day to you all.  I am in the process of migrating many 
of our companies applications currently running on an old Citrix 
Presentation Server 4.0 to the latest greatest XenApp Server.

On the old server we are using M$ Office 2003 (mainly Excel for the 
applications that export data).

The new XenApp server is going to need to have a spreadsheet 
application.  This leaves me with the following:
1)	I could use M$ Office 2003 again
2)	OpenOffice.org
3)	LibreOffice

I do have Office 2007 over here, but all the licenses I have do not 
allow for running in terminal server, and M$ Off 2010 is out as they 
finally caught on & have turn this into a licensing nightmare (not to 
mention the high cost for just Excel basically)

I have been playing with both ooo's & libre's CALC program.  They are 
both decent, but I am leaning more towards ooo.

I know Libre has become popular.  ooo source has been turned over to 
Apache, but the future still looks unclear to me.

My question is to you all if you had to use Excel 2003, OOO Calc, or 
Libre Calc in a production environment what would you use & why?

Thanks!

Mr. B-o-B
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue Jan 24 15:51:45 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:51:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice
In-Reply-To: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>
References: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120124155145.0bc95454c95bc07b399b555d@jasonhsu.com>

My vote is for LibreOffice.  It's what most of the Linux community now uses instead of OpenOffice.  When I release the new Swift Linux (which will be based on Linux Mint Debian Edition instead of antiX Linux), it will include LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice 2.4.

Microsoft Office 2003 is already obsolete and will only become even more obsolete in the future.  As we all know, Microsoft products are known for being expensive, insecure, and unstable.  You need to phase out your usage of Microsoft Office 2003.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:20:17 -0600
"Mr. B-o-B" <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> The new XenApp server is going to need to have a spreadsheet 
> application.  This leaves me with the following:
> 1)	I could use M$ Office 2003 again
> 2)	OpenOffice.org
> 3)	LibreOffice
> 
-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 15:52:26 2012
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:52:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230146390.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<483351F7-4761-44B8-8374-CE5AB33CCEA0@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230146390.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKGC1nit7vpmZdxVxvgESGNpGp7f+tigQOBcraaJs3p=p8DEqQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>
>> Step 1. Buy a HD HomeRun
>> Step 2. Install Mythbuntu
>>
>> There is no step 3
>>
>> ;-)
>
>
>
> I like the concise answer. ?Apparently others agree that HD HomeRun is the
> thing I need. ?So now I'm trying to understand it. ?I guess I can get this
> for about $200:
>
> http://www.silicondust.com/products/models/hdhr3-cc/
>
> Does "three tuners" make it possible to record up to three shows at the same
> time?
>
> What is reception like? ?Does this need an antenna, or is it its own
> antenna.
>

Note - that is the cable card model.  Thats a whole different beast.
Tis meant for getting access to digital, encrypted cable signals. In
fact, I think that exact model doesn't even have a OTA tuner.

You probably want this: http://www.silicondust.com/products/models/hdhr3-us/

And yes, it will record two different channels at the same time.  I'd
recommend having gigabit networking, however....

From shaneisageek at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 16:00:33 2012
From: shaneisageek at gmail.com (Shane Lambert)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:00:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice
In-Reply-To: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>
References: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F1F2A01.7050403@gmail.com>

I used to be an avid Open Office supporter, but mostly because that is 
what was installed with Ubuntu. When Ubuntu switched to Libre Office, I 
gave it a try. So far I have had no problems with it that were not also 
problems within Open Office. There are still a few things missing in 
Libre Office Calc that you can do in newer versions of MS Office (or so 
I am told), but so far it has done everything I need it to.

For the record, I do quite a bit of complicated math in my Calc 
spreadsheets. I also do a lot of linking between sheets to build summary 
reports and such. So far, Calc has been able to handle everything I need 
it to do. Having said that, Open Office was able to do this as well. So, 
for me, I use Libre Office, but only because 1) it does everything I 
need it to, and 2) it's preinstalled in the OS I prefer.

Now, it should be noted that I have had issues opening some spreadsheets 
created in M$ Office 2003 and 2007, but these have been quite limited 
and fairly easy to fix. So, I would suggest opening a few of the 
documents you already have in Calc (either flavor) and see what issues 
you come across.

On 01/24/2012 12:20 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> Hello, and a good day to you all. I am in the process of migrating many
> of our companies applications currently running on an old Citrix
> Presentation Server 4.0 to the latest greatest XenApp Server.
>
> On the old server we are using M$ Office 2003 (mainly Excel for the
> applications that export data).
>
> The new XenApp server is going to need to have a spreadsheet
> application. This leaves me with the following:
> 1) I could use M$ Office 2003 again
> 2) OpenOffice.org
> 3) LibreOffice
>
> I do have Office 2007 over here, but all the licenses I have do not
> allow for running in terminal server, and M$ Off 2010 is out as they
> finally caught on & have turn this into a licensing nightmare (not to
> mention the high cost for just Excel basically)
>
> I have been playing with both ooo's & libre's CALC program. They are
> both decent, but I am leaning more towards ooo.
>
> I know Libre has become popular. ooo source has been turned over to
> Apache, but the future still looks unclear to me.
>
> My question is to you all if you had to use Excel 2003, OOO Calc, or
> Libre Calc in a production environment what would you use & why?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mr. B-o-B
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 16:03:27 2012
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:03:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230146390.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<483351F7-4761-44B8-8374-CE5AB33CCEA0@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201230146390.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKGC1nircSrtf7QbyXtx6Mhu7GqQd+GLQW27cL4nkZ8fyMe22w@mail.gmail.com>

>
> What is reception like? ?Does this need an antenna, or is it its own
> antenna.
>

Oh, and, yes, you need an antenna.

http://antennaweb.org/ will give you an idea of what you need.

If you are in the metro, an old pair of rabbit ears will pick up most
channels.  I put a larger antenna up inside my garage attic, myself.

One problem I have in my location is that the signals are too
strong... and I can't get an antenna above the trees and houses in my
line of site to the broadcast location, so I pick up very strong
reflected signals.  And those slightly out-of-sync reflected signals
can corrupt the signal entirely.  I have to use a directional antenna,
and turn it away from the towers a bit... I'm still looking for the
perfect solution for my location.  But I only have those issues on a
couple of channels.  Most come in perfectly.

From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 17:15:09 2012
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:15:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice
In-Reply-To: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>
References: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F1F3B7D.7090601@gmail.com>


I've also switched to LibreOffice from OpenOffice and have had no 
problems.  So my suggestion is LibreOffice.  I've not found the need for 
MS Office this century.

On 01/24/2012 12:20 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
> Hello, and a good day to you all.  I am in the process of migrating 
> many of our companies applications currently running on an old Citrix 
> Presentation Server 4.0 to the latest greatest XenApp Server.
>
> On the old server we are using M$ Office 2003 (mainly Excel for the 
> applications that export data).
>
> The new XenApp server is going to need to have a spreadsheet 
> application.  This leaves me with the following:
> 1)    I could use M$ Office 2003 again
> 2)    OpenOffice.org
> 3)    LibreOffice
>
> I do have Office 2007 over here, but all the licenses I have do not 
> allow for running in terminal server, and M$ Off 2010 is out as they 
> finally caught on & have turn this into a licensing nightmare (not to 
> mention the high cost for just Excel basically)
>
> I have been playing with both ooo's & libre's CALC program.  They are 
> both decent, but I am leaning more towards ooo.
>
> I know Libre has become popular.  ooo source has been turned over to 
> Apache, but the future still looks unclear to me.
>
> My question is to you all if you had to use Excel 2003, OOO Calc, or 
> Libre Calc in a production environment what would you use & why?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mr. B-o-B
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From j at packetgod.com  Wed Jan 25 00:15:53 2012
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:15:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice
In-Reply-To: <4F1F3B7D.7090601@gmail.com>
References: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com>
	<4F1F3B7D.7090601@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADr-736ozDmHucMyFu16KsPXUgmmZtbDY4ZgD4c6sVisbiwROg@mail.gmail.com>

Y'all can flame me but Excel 2010 is the best thing that company has
put out in a long time.  All the pivoting tables and magic junk it
does blows me away.  But yes LibreOffice does have a decent app that
works great but just doesn't compare with Excel 2010.  I use Microsoft
Office 2010 at work and it is kind of hard to go back to LibreOffice
at home.  And I'd just run with CrossoverOffice but it does not work
with excel 2010 :(

Maybe LibreOffice has all those features too and I haven't bothered to
learn them as I'm a lazy bastard.

--j



On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:15 PM,  <rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've also switched to LibreOffice from OpenOffice and have had no problems.
> ?So my suggestion is LibreOffice. ?I've not found the need for MS Office
> this century.
>
>
> On 01/24/2012 12:20 PM, Mr. B-o-B wrote:
>>
>> Hello, and a good day to you all. ?I am in the process of migrating many
>> of our companies applications currently running on an old Citrix
>> Presentation Server 4.0 to the latest greatest XenApp Server.
>>
>> On the old server we are using M$ Office 2003 (mainly Excel for the
>> applications that export data).
>>
>> The new XenApp server is going to need to have a spreadsheet application.
>> ?This leaves me with the following:
>> 1) ? ?I could use M$ Office 2003 again
>> 2) ? ?OpenOffice.org
>> 3) ? ?LibreOffice
>>
>> I do have Office 2007 over here, but all the licenses I have do not allow
>> for running in terminal server, and M$ Off 2010 is out as they finally
>> caught on & have turn this into a licensing nightmare (not to mention the
>> high cost for just Excel basically)
>>
>> I have been playing with both ooo's & libre's CALC program. ?They are both
>> decent, but I am leaning more towards ooo.
>>
>> I know Libre has become popular. ?ooo source has been turned over to
>> Apache, but the future still looks unclear to me.
>>
>> My question is to you all if you had to use Excel 2003, OOO Calc, or Libre
>> Calc in a production environment what would you use & why?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Mr. B-o-B
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 09:41:10 2012
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:41:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Are many of you using MythTV?  I don't know much about it.  I'm thinking
> it would be great to have a computer-based way of programming to record TV
> shows, and I think MythTV does that.  Do I need a special card for the
> computer to be able to take in digital info from an antenna?  How would you
> recommend I get started?
>
> Mike
>


I've been running mythtv for a long, long time.  I like LinHes which is
based on Arch.  It used to be called Knoppmyth, as a few versions ago it
was based on Knoppix.

3 years ago we ditched Directv and went OTA w/ a HDHomerun unit - setup was
a snap (I really hated the homemade serial cable and script I had to use to
change channels on the DirecTv STB).

I now run a frontend/backend machine in the downstairs family room - it's
got a couple Tb of disk space and a front end in the upstairs tv area.  I
also netboot off the downstairs unit in my office (another frontend).

I'd recommend at least a P4 and a Nvidia card - Microcenter has a Geforce
210 (fanless) made by Zotac for around $48 - plus there's a $15 mail in
rebate.

I'm currently building 2 frontends right now - so hit me up if you need
help!

Peace
john
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120125/957ddbef/attachment.html>

From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 09:46:42 2012
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:46:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL0Bt095j4p0sHBNcS7r59B47S_Saf5NXc8Vo3FZUWc_74Qk1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 9:41 AM, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Are many of you using MythTV?  I don't know much about it.  I'm thinking
>> it would be great to have a computer-based way of programming to record TV
>> shows, and I think MythTV does that.  Do I need a special card for the
>> computer to be able to take in digital info from an antenna?  How would you
>> recommend I get started?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
>
> I've been running mythtv for a long, long time.  I like LinHes which is
> based on Arch.  It used to be called Knoppmyth, as a few versions ago it
> was based on Knoppix.
>
> 3 years ago we ditched Directv and went OTA w/ a HDHomerun unit - setup
> was a snap (I really hated the homemade serial cable and script I had to
> use to change channels on the DirecTv STB).
>
> I now run a frontend/backend machine in the downstairs family room - it's
> got a couple Tb of disk space and a front end in the upstairs tv area.  I
> also netboot off the downstairs unit in my office (another frontend).
>
> I'd recommend at least a P4 and a Nvidia card - Microcenter has a Geforce
> 210 (fanless) made by Zotac for around $48 - plus there's a $15 mail in
> rebate.
>
> I'm currently building 2 frontends right now - so hit me up if you need
> help!
>
> Peace
> john
>


Oh - forgot to add this bit:

I picked up 2 of these machines via the Jobs foundation auction:
http://www.k-bid.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?klosteria64/6
They make great little myth boxes - they are pretty quiet and the
integrated intel video was able to play back recorded programs (although it
had problems with some ripped movies I have).

Keep your eye on the auctions as I picked up 2 of the above boxes for under
$55 each  (I thought it was a pretty good deal!)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120125/607ff0d9/attachment.html>

From andyzib at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 12:47:13 2012
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:47:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenOffice or LibreOffice
In-Reply-To: <CADr-736ozDmHucMyFu16KsPXUgmmZtbDY4ZgD4c6sVisbiwROg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F1EF661.3000009@gmail.com> <4F1F3B7D.7090601@gmail.com>
	<CADr-736ozDmHucMyFu16KsPXUgmmZtbDY4ZgD4c6sVisbiwROg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMh5oVq8etjvUtxZw8eU7uqksdX79gbmRMXCF8AJ_+Na9Q2Rag@mail.gmail.com>

>From the sounds of it, most of the Excel use in this situation is fairly
basic. Once you learn to use the advanced stuff (pivoting tables, etc.) in
Excel 2010 it is really hard (impossible?) to use anything else, but for
simple stuff that covers 90% of Excel users LibreOffice Calc should get the
job done. Even though I have a Microsoft TechNet subscription I don't use
Office on my home PC or Mac. Before I made the final switch from Windows to
Mac I had myself switched over to LibreOffice and didn't have a need for
Office except for work stuff, so my work laptop had MS Office. Now that my
Mac is my primary machine I am split between iWork and LibreOffice. iWork
feels more polished, but I still prefer LibreOffice for spreadsheets.

As for OpenOffice.org vs LibreOffice, my understanding is the community
developers were unhappy with Oracal's treatment of OpenOffice.org after
Oracal aquired Sun, so the community forked, LibreOffice was born, etc. The
LibreOffice folks have done huge code cleanups to remove unused code in
LibreOffice. Oracal still has OpenOffice, but LibreOffice seems to be the
true successor to OpenOffice.org.

My other Office 2010 addiction is OneNote. Very nice when you have to deal
with Outlook. Evernote is awesome as well, and again I'm split between the
two products. Most of my work related stuff ends up in OneNote. Personal or
anything I might need to be accessible on my iPhone ends up in Evernote.
There is a OneNote app for iPhone, but I've had it mess up the formatting
of my OneNote notebooks too many times to trust it. If only Evernote had a
native Linux client... ;)


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120125/f1133d3f/attachment.html>

From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 15:33:07 2012
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 15:33:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKGC1njJMrXr-1uZRiQgG18VZ3c3Njj_jq7bGW+eLdr2hntwcA@mail.gmail.com>

> I'd recommend at least a P4 and a Nvidia card - Microcenter has a Geforce
> 210 (fanless) made by Zotac for around $48 - plus there's a $15 mail in
> rebate.

Note, according to the details I've seen, the 210 doesn't haven enough
horsepower to do full HD decoding with all the bells and whistles:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU

Ended up going with a 220 card myself... and couldn't find a fanless
one.  But, I can't hear the fan over the cpu fan anyway.

Also, if you are working in a small case... the fanless cards tend to
have huge heat sinks.  Which may intrude on another slot that you
need.

In my combined backend / frontend - things were a bit cramped down
there:  http://armbrust.dyndns.org/gallery/d/33861-1/_2010+-+03_+-+Myth+TV+Build+11.jpg

Things to consider.

Less of an issue when you are using external capture devices like the HDHomeRun.

From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 16:00:40 2012
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:00:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <CAKGC1njJMrXr-1uZRiQgG18VZ3c3Njj_jq7bGW+eLdr2hntwcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>
	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>
	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>
	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>
	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKGC1njJMrXr-1uZRiQgG18VZ3c3Njj_jq7bGW+eLdr2hntwcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL0Bt0_VRp9r_BX09_TQBY_ysodCBHw+TXMb1_CpRWv_=xA33w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Dan Armbrust <
daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com> wrote:

> > I'd recommend at least a P4 and a Nvidia card - Microcenter has a Geforce
> > 210 (fanless) made by Zotac for around $48 - plus there's a $15 mail in
> > rebate.
>
> Note, according to the details I've seen, the 210 doesn't haven enough
> horsepower to do full HD decoding with all the bells and whistles:
>
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU
>
> Ended up going with a 220 card myself... and couldn't find a fanless
> one.  But, I can't hear the fan over the cpu fan anyway.
>
>
True that - but I have yet to see/miss the bells and whistles I'm missing.
 I think (but do not know) the bells and/or whistles are a bag of nice
graphical transitions and eye candy stuffs....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120125/5046703a/attachment.html>

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed Jan 25 23:25:49 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:25:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do any of you use AbiWord or Gnumeric?
Message-ID: <20120125232549.f5aec15ff9562dbfc55cdc29@jasonhsu.com>

I'm curious.  Lightweight distros provide AbiWord and Gnumeric instead of OpenOffice/LibreOffice, and I've noticed that more and more distros are doing this in order to keep the ISO file small enough to fit onto a CD.

I use LibreOffice, because it can do just about everything that Microsoft Office can do.  AbiWord and Gnumeric just can't quite cut it.

I've been providing OpenOffice in most editions of Swift Linux.  The new Minty Swift Linux I'm working on will include LibreOffice in most editions.  (Diet Swift Linux will have AbiWord and Gnumeric instead of LibreOffice.)  I insist on providing OpenOffice/LibreOffice because word processing and spreadsheets are one of the most widely used applications among computer users, and there are very few alternatives.  I prefer to skimp on the applications that only a small percentage of people use.  (That's why I omit chat programs, Nano, Vim, Samba, foreign language fonts, servers, and other more obscure applications.  I omit Thunderbird because there are so many alternatives, such as web-based email, Sylpheed, and other solutions.)

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From nesius at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 23:59:40 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 23:59:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do any of you use AbiWord or Gnumeric?
In-Reply-To: <20120125232549.f5aec15ff9562dbfc55cdc29@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120125232549.f5aec15ff9562dbfc55cdc29@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE8C25gCfcs-VGx4C+UV_LuUiFWLTYDL0fLMbWpYeSx6+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
>
>
> I use LibreOffice, because it can do just about everything that Microsoft
> Office can do.  AbiWord and Gnumeric just can't quite cut it.
>

You might be right, but referencing a previous thread where you voiced your
disdain for Excel, the fact of the matter is that when it comes to
spreadsheets Excel is the king.  (It kills me to say that, but anyway,
moving on....)

 I insist on providing OpenOffice/LibreOffice because word processing and
> spreadsheets are one of the most widely used applications among computer
> users, and there are very few alternatives.  I prefer to skimp on the
> applications that only a small percentage of people use.  (That's why I
> omit ..., Vim,..., and other more obscure applications.
>
>
Emacs is included in "other more obscure applications", right? :)

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120125/e76a57ec/attachment.html>

From admin at lctn.org  Thu Jan 26 08:51:16 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:51:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] ditching cable TV and using OTA and MythTV
In-Reply-To: <CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1894.1327197778.1277.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>	<4F1C5315.3050900@amsat.org>	<95ADF594-D16E-4185-AB4F-E13EF3F4BD2C@me.com>	<1DB876C7-7825-4260-AB76-B81E034D7D31@me.com>	<4F1C970D.9010709@amsat.org>	<CADeMz-SR6ZnZvqr3YPQax_NUhPGQbVi4CUhoU9yE_=tFpQ7c2A@mail.gmail.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1201221735560.1357@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAL0Bt08_bjM=nP+K-f-0pb1G1q1nT14cNE+1h6UGx7FEjd_bxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F216864.9020109@lctn.org>


>
> I'm currently building 2 frontends right now - so hit me up if you 
> need help!
>
>


I only wish the backend frontend relationship were not so fickle in 
regards to having to use the same version. A real pain if you don't want 
to upgrade all devices used to connect to the backend. Other than that, 
I love myth. My favorite setup is using a mini zotac box with a USB  
hauppauge hvr-1950 dual tuner for analog and digital channels. I set the 
same box up to stream channels via VLC, which is a workaround for 
watching live TV from devices that don't run myth.

Raymond



From jhawley at hissingdragon.net  Thu Jan 26 18:57:12 2012
From: jhawley at hissingdragon.net (John Hawley)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:57:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <CAC3D_tj9_xJXV+X5uRNBPeeBQaetkpkhAUrVjPoyPqkMoWt6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>	<CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>	<CADr-735DGN-nuKs=ro6gby5VHzx2zHZwjtF09STKFMEuWbADcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC3D_tj9_xJXV+X5uRNBPeeBQaetkpkhAUrVjPoyPqkMoWt6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F21F668.5030507@hissingdragon.net>

On 01/23/2012 07:49 PM, Justin Kremer wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:28 AM, J Cruit<j at packetgod.com>  wrote:
>> Just in case anyone wants their own Buy.com has a deal today on them
>> for 139$ each
>>
>> http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-color-by-barnes-noble-wifi-ereader/221376447.html?listingid=140072914
>>
>> I've been holding off getting a tablet but for 139 I might just get
>> one and then buy a nice one later down the road.
> Just so you know, buyer beware on refurb items from buy.com.  They
> generally won't specify who refurbed the item, but it probably WASN'T
> the manufacturer.  Then when you get the item, it doesn't come in
> standard packaging, and it has a little slip in it saying that there
> IS NO original manufacturer warranty, you can't return the item to
> buy.com unless the item was DOA, and if you have problems later on,
> call this number and they might fix it...if they feel like it.  You
> would think I had been through that song and dance before or
> something...
> You can get a refurb nook color straight from BN for $149, so if
> you're planning to void your warranty as soon as you get it, I guess
> it's your call if it's worth saving $10.
> - Justin

Hmm, lucky me.  I ordered one of these from buy.com "marketplace" and 
what i got *was* a B&N certified refurb.  Came in an original box and 
everything.

~jh

From briandg at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Jan 27 13:01:56 2012
From: briandg at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:01:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] * TOMORROW * illumian (Open Source Solaris) at
 Penguins Unbound Meeting January 28 2012
Message-ID: <4F22F4A4.8090603@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday January 28th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Linda Kateley Community Manager for Nexenta will be talking about a new 
illumos based distro called illumian. It is a combination of a 
Illumos(solaris) kernel with debian packaging. She will talk a little 
about how they got there and where they hope to go. Also will review 
some of the other illumos based distros.

I would like to thank,

ProGeek, LLC
doug at progeekonline.com
952.373.1057

Who has kindly loaned us a server to use as a install-fest server!
Thanks Doug!

Hope to see you there!

==>brian.


*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Jan 27 14:37:08 2012
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:37:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] * TOMORROW * illumian (Open Source Solaris) at
	Penguins Unbound
Message-ID: <4F230AF4.3050408@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday January 28th at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Linda Kateley Community Manager for Nexenta will be talking about a new 
illumos based distro called illumian. It is a combination of a 
Illumos(solaris) kernel with debian packaging. She will talk a little 
about how they got there and where they hope to go. Also will review 
some of the other illumos based distros.

I would like to thank,

ProGeek, LLC
doug at progeekonline.com
952.373.1057

Who has kindly loaned us a server to use as a install-fest server!
Thanks Doug!

Hope to see you there!

==>brian.


*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From brockn at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 14:44:32 2012
From: brockn at gmail.com (Brock Noland)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:44:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Discounted Hadoop Training
Message-ID: <CAHCAor70cCwhqY1CRoUNZ_3_YN22AdKaYDFNx612=M9p1=WXkQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hadoop Training in Minneapolis:

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/2595314656/eorg

10% discount code  tclug
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120127/9a7324ab/attachment.html>

From andyzib at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 15:57:50 2012
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:57:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Do any of you use AbiWord or Gnumeric?
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE8C25gCfcs-VGx4C+UV_LuUiFWLTYDL0fLMbWpYeSx6+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120125232549.f5aec15ff9562dbfc55cdc29@jasonhsu.com>
	<CAOOsjE8C25gCfcs-VGx4C+UV_LuUiFWLTYDL0fLMbWpYeSx6+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMh5oVrPK_9BtB-e0682Z5Y5z-Jyto4tk+5Ehs6Q4cUMKGeDSg@mail.gmail.com>

I've used both in the past. If you just need basic documents and simple
spreadsheets they work very well. In a previous job I had 40-50 Linux data
entry kiosks on the production floors. They each has a Gnumeric spreadsheet
that had a number of common functions that the printing press operators
used. Before the Linux kiosks they were using Windows and Excel/Word with
software licenses of dubious origin. Linux replaced Windows and AbiWord and
Gnumeric replaced Word and Excel. Worked beautifully for at least 7 years.
Over time the Linux kiosks started getting replaced with Windows kiosks as
the hardware turnover solved the licensing issues for us. Office staff got
the new computers and their old computers got reconfigured for the data
entry/web app access kiosks. My job responsiblities had expanded
significantly over the 7 years since the implementation. Updating the
configuration to use a modern Linux distribution (mostly for hardware
support) was going to take too much of my time compared to pushing the task
off to the junior level Windows admins, who were also too swamped to learn
Linux. Side effects of running lean on your IT staff...little if any
training and development time.


-- 
Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120127/2d298e8a/attachment.html>

From ron.e.nelson at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 08:46:56 2012
From: ron.e.nelson at gmail.com (Ron Nelson)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:46:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Nook Color
In-Reply-To: <4F21F668.5030507@hissingdragon.net>
References: <k2vbkvqmp7c0umvmbbcwv5kq.1327335326505@email.android.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1201231104250.8244@Dragon>
	<CALZ1KsBNPXpzwZY2oBw8t3GUEoRZ8ByJjrYQxK_M-Y4pmwpMrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADr-735DGN-nuKs=ro6gby5VHzx2zHZwjtF09STKFMEuWbADcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC3D_tj9_xJXV+X5uRNBPeeBQaetkpkhAUrVjPoyPqkMoWt6VQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F21F668.5030507@hissingdragon.net>
Message-ID: <CADv0mLfyferRqdGtYppnvsNd8cCVOn4bmaLi+o-J6sASC0uExA@mail.gmail.com>

I've been happy with my Nook's with "merely" rooting them rather then
running Cyanogen.  But that's because I use mine primarily as an e-reader,
and the Nook reader as part of the B&N distro is better then the Android
Nook software.  That still gives me access to the Google and Amazon app
stores, and works well for me.

My last couple Nook purchases have been by searching ebay for B&N sales,
where they're moving their refurbs.  Good deals there too.

Ron

On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:57 PM, John Hawley <jhawley at hissingdragon.net>wrote:

> On 01/23/2012 07:49 PM, Justin Kremer wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:28 AM, J Cruit<j at packetgod.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Just in case anyone wants their own Buy.com has a deal today on them
>>> for 139$ each
>>>
>>> http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-**color-by-barnes-noble-wifi-**
>>> ereader/221376447.html?**listingid=140072914<http://www.buy.com/prod/nook-color-by-barnes-noble-wifi-ereader/221376447.html?listingid=140072914>
>>>
>>> I've been holding off getting a tablet but for 139 I might just get
>>> one and then buy a nice one later down the road.
>>>
>> Just so you know, buyer beware on refurb items from buy.com.  They
>> generally won't specify who refurbed the item, but it probably WASN'T
>> the manufacturer.  Then when you get the item, it doesn't come in
>> standard packaging, and it has a little slip in it saying that there
>> IS NO original manufacturer warranty, you can't return the item to
>> buy.com unless the item was DOA, and if you have problems later on,
>> call this number and they might fix it...if they feel like it.  You
>> would think I had been through that song and dance before or
>> something...
>> You can get a refurb nook color straight from BN for $149, so if
>> you're planning to void your warranty as soon as you get it, I guess
>> it's your call if it's worth saving $10.
>> - Justin
>>
>
> Hmm, lucky me.  I ordered one of these from buy.com "marketplace" and
> what i got *was* a B&N certified refurb.  Came in an original box and
> everything.
>
> ~jh
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>



-- 
http://ronspace.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120128/0fe38733/attachment.html>

From ron at ron-l-j.com  Sun Jan 29 09:12:25 2012
From: ron at ron-l-j.com (ron at ron-l-j.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 08:12:25 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] another evening meeting/troubleshooting.
Message-ID: <81e6a4c6eb519c6b63fde3b29bd12f3b.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>

I would like to get together for a break my Linux box day. Not hardware.
But in order to gain and share knowledge. I still have much to learn about
Linux, and I think this would be the best way to get some trouble shooting
done. After someone makes changes that break your system you have 15
minutes to fix it and then you get some hints. What do you think? Who is
interested in this?
Ron.


From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 10:21:28 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 10:21:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] another evening meeting/troubleshooting.
In-Reply-To: <81e6a4c6eb519c6b63fde3b29bd12f3b.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>
References: <81e6a4c6eb519c6b63fde3b29bd12f3b.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_ti_ULhc=ANq11V55HFCMQ3-tBbBCdDKouMPuS+Mi8sd8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Obviously, this isn't EXACTLY what you're looking for, but if you want
to do some of that on your own, Trouble-Maker is there for you.
http://trouble-maker.sourceforge.net/
- Justin


On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:12 AM,  <ron at ron-l-j.com> wrote:
> I would like to get together for a break my Linux box day. Not hardware.
> But in order to gain and share knowledge. I still have much to learn about
> Linux, and I think this would be the best way to get some trouble shooting
> done. After someone makes changes that break your system you have 15
> minutes to fix it and then you get some hints. What do you think? Who is
> interested in this?
> Ron.

From jmore at starmind.org  Sun Jan 29 13:46:25 2012
From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 14:46:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] another evening meeting/troubleshooting.
In-Reply-To: <CAC3D_ti_ULhc=ANq11V55HFCMQ3-tBbBCdDKouMPuS+Mi8sd8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e6a4c6eb519c6b63fde3b29bd12f3b.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>
	<CAC3D_ti_ULhc=ANq11V55HFCMQ3-tBbBCdDKouMPuS+Mi8sd8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3GUt-Z2D91JuKKD3QgD1iNY7aRc4Yb34iC_b+ev767X1=izw@mail.gmail.com>

If you want to do both, and we can find a time I can make it, we could
communally build scripts and enhance TroubleMaker.

I built it in a modular way so that this would be possible.  I've gotten
very few trouble scripts since I first built it, and it'd be nice to get
some community action going on.

-Josh



On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com>wrote:

> Obviously, this isn't EXACTLY what you're looking for, but if you want
> to do some of that on your own, Trouble-Maker is there for you.
> http://trouble-maker.sourceforge.net/
> - Justin
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 9:12 AM,  <ron at ron-l-j.com> wrote:
> > I would like to get together for a break my Linux box day. Not hardware.
> > But in order to gain and share knowledge. I still have much to learn
> about
> > Linux, and I think this would be the best way to get some trouble
> shooting
> > done. After someone makes changes that break your system you have 15
> > minutes to fix it and then you get some hints. What do you think? Who is
> > interested in this?
> > Ron.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120129/f16a99c5/attachment.html>

From tclug at jfoo.org  Mon Jan 30 20:51:45 2012
From: tclug at jfoo.org (John Gateley)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:51:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Website designer
Message-ID: <4F275741.7060409@jfoo.org>

Looking for a website designer - the site is very simple,
about 5 pages, including a home page, a bio page, an
events page, and a blog page. Hosted on apache2/linux.
I can install other packages as needed.

I don't have any html skills (besides very basic ones).

It needs to look better than a do-it-yourself wordpress
template.

Budget is small: this is for an author with a book
coming out, and the publishing industry is in very
bad state.

John

From j at packetgod.com  Mon Jan 30 22:16:44 2012
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:16:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for a OpenAM Engineer
Message-ID: <CADr-734Hewm1oukFfD7s=bD20UHv25n-yD3T07Ji8Z3UG=R_kA@mail.gmail.com>

Looking for someone very familiar with OpenAM for consulting and
potential for conversion to FTE if wanted and if the project is
successful.  In other words, if we can make OpenAM successful then we
will need someone full time to support it.

--j

From florin at iucha.net  Mon Jan 30 23:37:27 2012
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:37:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Website designer
In-Reply-To: <4F275741.7060409@jfoo.org>
References: <4F275741.7060409@jfoo.org>
Message-ID: <20120131053726.GQ26137@styx.iucha.org>

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 08:51:45PM -0600, John Gateley wrote:
> Looking for a website designer - the site is very simple,
> about 5 pages, including a home page, a bio page, an
> events page, and a blog page. Hosted on apache2/linux.
> I can install other packages as needed.
>
> I don't have any html skills (besides very basic ones).
>
> It needs to look better than a do-it-yourself wordpress
> template.
>
> Budget is small: this is for an author with a book
> coming out, and the publishing industry is in very
> bad state.

John,

Check out Theme Forest: http://themeforest.net/

florin

-- 
Beware of software written by optimists!
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120130/12b796bd/attachment.pgp>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Jan 31 02:28:58 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 02:28:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] rsync loss
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9Dj7o68dnQ1h6dxtgaGy0M303seBzbB_PqwTQA9tv_qrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9D9k=8tmTOdAiWeR1q3uU2Ey4rWBxEB7qnihL8fAJfnDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9Dj7o68dnQ1h6dxtgaGy0M303seBzbB_PqwTQA9tv_qrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9D1hhRAe91-+ptr+Zx5V6SbLa8Ozw09C=kSrrWMT7bX=Q@mail.gmail.com>

sadly just now i lost about 6 hours work by rsync of an older version over
the newly edited file (rhel6).  being usually very careful with backups and
rsync, i have little experience with recovery.  my guess in this
circumstance is that most likely the very same disc blocks were written
over, leaving less than a miniscule chance that even fairly sophisticated
tools would recover anything, and, that the time required for attempting
recovery would almost certainly outweigh the loss.  would those with some
relevant experience care to chime in?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120131/5a722237/attachment.html>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Jan 31 02:36:01 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 02:36:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] rsync loss
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9D1hhRAe91-+ptr+Zx5V6SbLa8Ozw09C=kSrrWMT7bX=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9D9k=8tmTOdAiWeR1q3uU2Ey4rWBxEB7qnihL8fAJfnDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9Dj7o68dnQ1h6dxtgaGy0M303seBzbB_PqwTQA9tv_qrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9D1hhRAe91-+ptr+Zx5V6SbLa8Ozw09C=kSrrWMT7bX=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AuG3ERmhbsJa37ZmPo2nYnA2-=Voi6qszC1hDziSRG_A@mail.gmail.com>

the more likely recovery might be from ram.  i exited vi after the rsync
copleted.  that vi process had the good copy.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120131/fa80daee/attachment.html>

From tlunde at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 08:11:39 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:11:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] rsync loss
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AuG3ERmhbsJa37ZmPo2nYnA2-=Voi6qszC1hDziSRG_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9D9k=8tmTOdAiWeR1q3uU2Ey4rWBxEB7qnihL8fAJfnDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9Dj7o68dnQ1h6dxtgaGy0M303seBzbB_PqwTQA9tv_qrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9D1hhRAe91-+ptr+Zx5V6SbLa8Ozw09C=kSrrWMT7bX=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AuG3ERmhbsJa37ZmPo2nYnA2-=Voi6qszC1hDziSRG_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF7E2911-3034-4845-A507-6DC04466B6BD@gmail.com>

Any chance that your .vimrc or system defaults are keeping tilde backups, or that a copy got left in /tmp ?



On Jan 31, 2012, at 2:36 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> the more likely recovery might be from ram.  i exited vi after the rsync copleted.  that vi process had the good copy.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120131/975f9ccc/attachment.html>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Jan 31 13:14:55 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:14:55 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] rsync loss
In-Reply-To: <AF7E2911-3034-4845-A507-6DC04466B6BD@gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9D9k=8tmTOdAiWeR1q3uU2Ey4rWBxEB7qnihL8fAJfnDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9Dj7o68dnQ1h6dxtgaGy0M303seBzbB_PqwTQA9tv_qrA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9D1hhRAe91-+ptr+Zx5V6SbLa8Ozw09C=kSrrWMT7bX=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AuG3ERmhbsJa37ZmPo2nYnA2-=Voi6qszC1hDziSRG_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<AF7E2911-3034-4845-A507-6DC04466B6BD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9C9id1-LCZBGTuFT89Jwocw47RR2reO49AJjniKGBwsWQ@mail.gmail.com>

frayed knot, thanks tho.

On Jan 31, 2012 8:11 AM, "Thomas Lunde" <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:
> Any chance that your .vimrc or system defaults are keeping tilde backups,
or that a copy got left in /tmp ?
>
> On Jan 31, 2012, at 2:36 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>> the more likely recovery might be from ram.  i exited vi after the rsync
copleted.  that vi process had the good copy.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120131/dd963b67/attachment.html>