From tlunde at gmail.com  Tue May  1 00:12:55 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:12:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
Message-ID: <42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>

Ryan -

Andrew isn't a mind reader and neither am I. I read your post and what he wrote is a completely reasonable response to WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WROTE. What you intended to write, or thought you wrote, may of course be different that what you actually wrote. 

If you'd like help, may I politely suggest that (a) you take another swing at describing your end goal and (b) don't be a dick to someone who is trying to help you. 

Kind regards,
Thomas 


On Apr 30, 2012, at 11:16 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> That's the current system. I am getting rid of that; I have a datastore on that drive as well as the 500GB RAID.
> 
> But thanks for reading my OP.
> 
> Please read it back over and answer... Sorry to be a dick but I hate it when people don't actually read what I wrote. Since you didn't quote any of it I'm including it here for your reading pleasure:
> 
>> I have a Dell server rebranded by CSC's FTL group that is currently running 4x250G drives.
>> 
>> I want to replace each of those 250G drives with 2TB drives which should last us a while until the big corporation in the sky sees fit to either purchase us a NAS or SAN (which we are operating under the presumption will never happen).
>> 
>> So I have 4 bays. the first 250GB presently is the install drive for the VM software. The other three are running a RAID5 to give me a stable 500GB of storage...
>> 
>> I'm looking for options here on what to do for my splitting or should I use the whole thing?
>> 
>> TIA,
>> Ryan
> 
> 
> On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote:
> 
>> Do you really need 250 GB for the VM Hypervisor? VMWare ESX will boot
>> off a USB flash drive. If you're using Linux KVM you would ideally
>> want to have a minimalistic install anyway. A good Linux console only
>> live distro doesn't even fill a single 700 MB CD. Unless you're doing
>> something else on your VM host I would give it a small system
>> partition. Limited space keeps temptation at bay.
>> 
>> Personally I like things as simple as possible and would most likely
>> just do one big volume. If you wanted to future proof the installation
>> you could setup LVM so you can easily add disks/storage to your server
>> down the road (via external array, JBOD enclosure, NAS, SAN,
>> whatever), but my experience has been that we end up justifying the
>> new servers and storage and end up doing new installs on the new
>> hardware anyway, so the benefits of LVM don't end up justifying the
>> extra complexity. YMMV of course.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
>> IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From ryanjcole at me.com  Tue May  1 00:27:21 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 00:27:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>

S***. Either I deleted the "options" section or it only came out in my head.

I have, presently, 2x2TB drives and I'm debating picking up another pair... 

Without having the NAS and SAN to run with for the data storage, how should I set up the 4 drives? I'm still a novice with handling Hypervisor. Should I retain the existing 250GB drive (and it's datastore) and just upgrade it to a mirror on the 2nd 250GB and then mirror the two 2TBs? Or do one more drive and do a RAID 5 with 4TB? or 2 more drives and a RAID5 with 6TB?

I do not need speed. Not at all. This is not a high paced environment by any means, we're a small office but I need to be able to replace my expensive standalone servers with ones that are more efficient one one of them happens to be a fileserver.

I'm sorry, I thought I got that out there before.
--
Ryan

On May 1, 2012, at 12:12 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> Ryan -
> 
> Andrew isn't a mind reader and neither am I. I read your post and what he wrote is a completely reasonable response to WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WROTE. What you intended to write, or thought you wrote, may of course be different that what you actually wrote. 
> 
> If you'd like help, may I politely suggest that (a) you take another swing at describing your end goal and (b) don't be a dick to someone who is trying to help you. 
> 
> Kind regards,
> Thomas 
> 
> 
> On Apr 30, 2012, at 11:16 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> 
>> That's the current system. I am getting rid of that; I have a datastore on that drive as well as the 500GB RAID.
>> 
>> But thanks for reading my OP.
>> 
>> Please read it back over and answer... Sorry to be a dick but I hate it when people don't actually read what I wrote. Since you didn't quote any of it I'm including it here for your reading pleasure:
>> 
>>> I have a Dell server rebranded by CSC's FTL group that is currently running 4x250G drives.
>>> 
>>> I want to replace each of those 250G drives with 2TB drives which should last us a while until the big corporation in the sky sees fit to either purchase us a NAS or SAN (which we are operating under the presumption will never happen).
>>> 
>>> So I have 4 bays. the first 250GB presently is the install drive for the VM software. The other three are running a RAID5 to give me a stable 500GB of storage...
>>> 
>>> I'm looking for options here on what to do for my splitting or should I use the whole thing?
>>> 
>>> TIA,
>>> Ryan
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you really need 250 GB for the VM Hypervisor? VMWare ESX will boot
>>> off a USB flash drive. If you're using Linux KVM you would ideally
>>> want to have a minimalistic install anyway. A good Linux console only
>>> live distro doesn't even fill a single 700 MB CD. Unless you're doing
>>> something else on your VM host I would give it a small system
>>> partition. Limited space keeps temptation at bay.
>>> 
>>> Personally I like things as simple as possible and would most likely
>>> just do one big volume. If you wanted to future proof the installation
>>> you could setup LVM so you can easily add disks/storage to your server
>>> down the road (via external array, JBOD enclosure, NAS, SAN,
>>> whatever), but my experience has been that we end up justifying the
>>> new servers and storage and end up doing new installs on the new
>>> hardware anyway, so the benefits of LVM don't end up justifying the
>>> extra complexity. YMMV of course.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
>>> IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From mdeimel at gmail.com  Tue May  1 08:39:09 2012
From: mdeimel at gmail.com (Matt Deimel)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 08:39:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time
In-Reply-To: <20120501014009.GP2363@styx.iucha.org>
References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> <20120501014009.GP2363@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <CAJL58DrVxebpwNoJMKtEDATF=d2mkuabEyyYy64ahQ3zAc6NUg@mail.gmail.com>

Raymond,

Would you be able to provide any additional information on how you are
capturing video with cat?  If this information would not be pertinent to
other members of the list we could take the discussion offline.

Thanks.

  --Matt

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:45:35PM -0500, Raymond Norton wrote:
> > I am using cat to capture video from VHS tapes, saving the files as
> > mpegs  and don't want to baby sit things. How can I launch cat with a
> > predetermined ending time without having to use cron?
>
> Can you convert time into space (bytes) and use dd instead of cat?
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Beware of software written by optimists!
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120501/9cddea99/attachment.html>

From tlunde at gmail.com  Tue May  1 09:20:26 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:20:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
	<4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
Message-ID: <D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>

Ryan -

From someone who has been bitten before:  Beware RAID-5 rebuilding times!

With N drives in R5, you can lose 1. If you lose a second during the rebuild, it's time to take the whole thing down and restore from backup. Since rebuild time is proportional to the size of the array and because hard drives are getting lots bigger without getting much faster, that rebuild time could be a lot longer than you expect. 

I've sworn off of RAID-5. 

RAID-10 or RAID-6 or just pairs of RAID-1 with LVM on top of it are all safer than 5. 

(Hmm - can anyone take a swing at characterizing the performance of RAID-10 vs. RAID-1 with LVM on top of it?)

You mention adding 2, then 2 more. That gets my count to 6 drives. You said you have 4 bays. I would NOT run RAID over USB. (Yes, you can and I've done it to play with. Under load, I got enough random disconnects and errors that I wouldn't put it into production. )

Do you have enough SATA ports, physical space and cooling capacity to handle 6 drives?  

You mentioned that speed is not a concern. If you don't need the space now that 6 drives would provide, you might consider only using 4 and then doing this dance again with 4 TB drives in future. 

Andrew may have been driving at putting your boot device on another, smaller volume. I have a server that is stuffed with 2 TB drives, but the OS lives on a very small USB thumb drive. It barely touches it after the initial boot and lets me use the server's bays for "real" disc space. 

Just some thoughts. 
Thomas 





On May 1, 2012, at 12:27 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> S***. Either I deleted the "options" section or it only came out in my head.
> 
> I have, presently, 2x2TB drives and I'm debating picking up another pair... 
> 
> Without having the NAS and SAN to run with for the data storage, how should I set up the 4 drives? I'm still a novice with handling Hypervisor. Should I retain the existing 250GB drive (and it's datastore) and just upgrade it to a mirror on the 2nd 250GB and then mirror the two 2TBs? Or do one more drive and do a RAID 5 with 4TB? or 2 more drives and a RAID5 with 6TB?
> 
> I do not need speed. Not at all. This is not a high paced environment by any means, we're a small office but I need to be able to replace my expensive standalone servers with ones that are more efficient one one of them happens to be a fileserver.
> 
> I'm sorry, I thought I got that out there before.
> --
> Ryan
> 
> On May 1, 2012, at 12:12 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
> 
>> Ryan -
>> 
>> Andrew isn't a mind reader and neither am I. I read your post and what he wrote is a completely reasonable response to WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WROTE. What you intended to write, or thought you wrote, may of course be different that what you actually wrote. 
>> 
>> If you'd like help, may I politely suggest that (a) you take another swing at describing your end goal and (b) don't be a dick to someone who is trying to help you. 
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Thomas 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 30, 2012, at 11:16 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> That's the current system. I am getting rid of that; I have a datastore on that drive as well as the 500GB RAID.
>>> 
>>> But thanks for reading my OP.
>>> 
>>> Please read it back over and answer... Sorry to be a dick but I hate it when people don't actually read what I wrote. Since you didn't quote any of it I'm including it here for your reading pleasure:
>>> 
>>>> I have a Dell server rebranded by CSC's FTL group that is currently running 4x250G drives.
>>>> 
>>>> I want to replace each of those 250G drives with 2TB drives which should last us a while until the big corporation in the sky sees fit to either purchase us a NAS or SAN (which we are operating under the presumption will never happen).
>>>> 
>>>> So I have 4 bays. the first 250GB presently is the install drive for the VM software. The other three are running a RAID5 to give me a stable 500GB of storage...
>>>> 
>>>> I'm looking for options here on what to do for my splitting or should I use the whole thing?
>>>> 
>>>> TIA,
>>>> Ryan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Andrew S. Zbikowski wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Do you really need 250 GB for the VM Hypervisor? VMWare ESX will boot
>>>> off a USB flash drive. If you're using Linux KVM you would ideally
>>>> want to have a minimalistic install anyway. A good Linux console only
>>>> live distro doesn't even fill a single 700 MB CD. Unless you're doing
>>>> something else on your VM host I would give it a small system
>>>> partition. Limited space keeps temptation at bay.
>>>> 
>>>> Personally I like things as simple as possible and would most likely
>>>> just do one big volume. If you wanted to future proof the installation
>>>> you could setup LVM so you can easily add disks/storage to your server
>>>> down the road (via external array, JBOD enclosure, NAS, SAN,
>>>> whatever), but my experience has been that we end up justifying the
>>>> new servers and storage and end up doing new installs on the new
>>>> hardware anyway, so the benefits of LVM don't end up justifying the
>>>> extra complexity. YMMV of course.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Andrew S. Zbikowski | http://andy.zibnet.us
>>>> IT Outhouse Blog Thing | http://www.itouthouse.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From ryanjcole at me.com  Tue May  1 10:46:08 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 10:46:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
	<4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
	<D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <73387AB5-C931-4739-8B54-BC2B4E23DFB4@me.com>


On May 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> Ryan -
> 
> From someone who has been bitten before:  Beware RAID-5 rebuilding times!
> 
> With N drives in R5, you can lose 1. If you lose a second during the rebuild, it's time to take the whole thing down and restore from backup. Since rebuild time is proportional to the size of the array and because hard drives are getting lots bigger without getting much faster, that rebuild time could be a lot longer than you expect. 

Yeah, I know but I'd rather have the capacity with the tolerance than not at all.

> I've sworn off of RAID-5. 
> 
> RAID-10 or RAID-6 or just pairs of RAID-1 with LVM on top of it are all safer than 5. 
> 
> (Hmm - can anyone take a swing at characterizing the performance of RAID-10 vs. RAID-1 with LVM on top of it?)
> 
> You mention adding 2, then 2 more. That gets my count to 6 drives. You said you have 4 bays. I would NOT run RAID over USB. (Yes, you can and I've done it to play with. Under load, I got enough random disconnects and errors that I wouldn't put it into production. )

That's the same 2, sorry.

> Do you have enough SATA ports, physical space and cooling capacity to handle 6 drives?  
> 
> You mentioned that speed is not a concern. If you don't need the space now that 6 drives would provide, you might consider only using 4 and then doing this dance again with 4 TB drives in future. 
See above.


> Andrew may have been driving at putting your boot device on another, smaller volume. I have a server that is stuffed with 2 TB drives, but the OS lives on a very small USB thumb drive. It barely touches it after the initial boot and lets me use the server's bays for "real" disc space. 

I could possibly see this... I'd probably look at one of those micro USB drives; but I'd have to get a few of them. I don't like the lifespan of Flash.

> Just some thoughts. 
> Thomas 
> 
Thanks, Thomas. I'll look into the costs.


From admin at lctn.org  Tue May  1 11:10:10 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 11:10:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time
In-Reply-To: <CAJL58DrVxebpwNoJMKtEDATF=d2mkuabEyyYy64ahQ3zAc6NUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> <20120501014009.GP2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<CAJL58DrVxebpwNoJMKtEDATF=d2mkuabEyyYy64ahQ3zAc6NUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FA00AE2.2020507@lctn.org>


> Would you be able to provide any additional information on how you are 
> capturing video with cat?  If this information would not be pertinent 
> to other members of the list we could take the discussion offline.
>
>  
>

Currently I am using IVTV to set the capture source on my TV tuner to 
the composite input. After that a simple "cat /dev/video0 > capture.mpg 
dumps the video to a file. There are a lot of paramaters you can set 
with IVTV, such as bit rate, video size, etc..., but I am just using the 
defaults for now. After that, I use ffmpeg, Kino, or both to transcode 
and trim the video. I have a bunch of VHS tapes I need to copy over to 
digital and this is a pretty easy way to get the job done.

From tlunde at gmail.com  Tue May  1 11:30:29 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:30:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <73387AB5-C931-4739-8B54-BC2B4E23DFB4@me.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
	<4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
	<D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>
	<73387AB5-C931-4739-8B54-BC2B4E23DFB4@me.com>
Message-ID: <523E1CEE-BF20-4FE8-9A73-CEE5B91A2B0C@gmail.com>

If all you're doing is booting off it, your server will be obsolete before the lifespan of any modern flash drive ends. 

That said, do have a mirror of it sitting spare on the shelf!

Actually, I'd have three of them: in use, mirror, known good previous config in case an upgrade doesn't go well. Flash drives (of the capacity you'd need for a boot disc) are cheap. 

Thomas 


On May 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:

> 
> On May 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
> 
>> Ryan -
>> 
>> From someone who has been bitten before:  Beware RAID-5 rebuilding times!
>> 
>> With N drives in R5, you can lose 1. If you lose a second during the rebuild, it's time to take the whole thing down and restore from backup. Since rebuild time is proportional to the size of the array and because hard drives are getting lots bigger without getting much faster, that rebuild time could be a lot longer than you expect. 
> 
> Yeah, I know but I'd rather have the capacity with the tolerance than not at all.
> 
>> I've sworn off of RAID-5. 
>> 
>> RAID-10 or RAID-6 or just pairs of RAID-1 with LVM on top of it are all safer than 5. 
>> 
>> (Hmm - can anyone take a swing at characterizing the performance of RAID-10 vs. RAID-1 with LVM on top of it?)
>> 
>> You mention adding 2, then 2 more. That gets my count to 6 drives. You said you have 4 bays. I would NOT run RAID over USB. (Yes, you can and I've done it to play with. Under load, I got enough random disconnects and errors that I wouldn't put it into production. )
> 
> That's the same 2, sorry.
> 
>> Do you have enough SATA ports, physical space and cooling capacity to handle 6 drives?  
>> 
>> You mentioned that speed is not a concern. If you don't need the space now that 6 drives would provide, you might consider only using 4 and then doing this dance again with 4 TB drives in future. 
> See above.
> 
> 
>> Andrew may have been driving at putting your boot device on another, smaller volume. I have a server that is stuffed with 2 TB drives, but the OS lives on a very small USB thumb drive. It barely touches it after the initial boot and lets me use the server's bays for "real" disc space. 
> 
> I could possibly see this... I'd probably look at one of those micro USB drives; but I'd have to get a few of them. I don't like the lifespan of Flash.
> 
>> Just some thoughts. 
>> Thomas 
>> 
> Thanks, Thomas. I'll look into the costs.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From ryanjcole at me.com  Wed May  2 00:32:53 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 00:32:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <523E1CEE-BF20-4FE8-9A73-CEE5B91A2B0C@gmail.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
	<4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
	<D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>
	<73387AB5-C931-4739-8B54-BC2B4E23DFB4@me.com>
	<523E1CEE-BF20-4FE8-9A73-CEE5B91A2B0C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B11187D-7C25-4909-8DC5-8697550C2422@me.com>

Ok, so you suggest multiples... how do you suggest I go about backing them up? It would be quite difficult to do that on a live FS, right? And logs?

I'm definitely intrigued by this but I am concerned about implementation - especially if I leave the company and they suffer a catastrophic loss without a backup because I wasn't there to do it anymore and someone there thought it was too hard to continue (as the guy who got me my job [and holds the title of 'network engineer'] would definitely react)?

Otherwise I'm giving consideration to a USB2-connected SSD.

Anyone have any suggestions for a RAID enclosure? Preferably self-powered? Thanks!

--
Ryan


On May 1, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> If all you're doing is booting off it, your server will be obsolete before the lifespan of any modern flash drive ends. 
> 
> That said, do have a mirror of it sitting spare on the shelf!
> 
> Actually, I'd have three of them: in use, mirror, known good previous config in case an upgrade doesn't go well. Flash drives (of the capacity you'd need for a boot disc) are cheap. 
> 
> Thomas 
> 
> 
> On May 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On May 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>> 
>>> Ryan -
>>> 
>>> From someone who has been bitten before:  Beware RAID-5 rebuilding times!
>>> 
>>> With N drives in R5, you can lose 1. If you lose a second during the rebuild, it's time to take the whole thing down and restore from backup. Since rebuild time is proportional to the size of the array and because hard drives are getting lots bigger without getting much faster, that rebuild time could be a lot longer than you expect. 
>> 
>> Yeah, I know but I'd rather have the capacity with the tolerance than not at all.
>> 
>>> I've sworn off of RAID-5. 
>>> 
>>> RAID-10 or RAID-6 or just pairs of RAID-1 with LVM on top of it are all safer than 5. 
>>> 
>>> (Hmm - can anyone take a swing at characterizing the performance of RAID-10 vs. RAID-1 with LVM on top of it?)
>>> 
>>> You mention adding 2, then 2 more. That gets my count to 6 drives. You said you have 4 bays. I would NOT run RAID over USB. (Yes, you can and I've done it to play with. Under load, I got enough random disconnects and errors that I wouldn't put it into production. )
>> 
>> That's the same 2, sorry.
>> 
>>> Do you have enough SATA ports, physical space and cooling capacity to handle 6 drives?  
>>> 
>>> You mentioned that speed is not a concern. If you don't need the space now that 6 drives would provide, you might consider only using 4 and then doing this dance again with 4 TB drives in future. 
>> See above.
>> 
>> 
>>> Andrew may have been driving at putting your boot device on another, smaller volume. I have a server that is stuffed with 2 TB drives, but the OS lives on a very small USB thumb drive. It barely touches it after the initial boot and lets me use the server's bays for "real" disc space. 
>> 
>> I could possibly see this... I'd probably look at one of those micro USB drives; but I'd have to get a few of them. I don't like the lifespan of Flash.
>> 
>>> Just some thoughts. 
>>> Thomas 
>>> 
>> Thanks, Thomas. I'll look into the costs.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed May  2 07:48:31 2012
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 07:48:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <1B11187D-7C25-4909-8DC5-8697550C2422@me.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
	<4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
	<D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>
	<73387AB5-C931-4739-8B54-BC2B4E23DFB4@me.com>
	<523E1CEE-BF20-4FE8-9A73-CEE5B91A2B0C@gmail.com>
	<1B11187D-7C25-4909-8DC5-8697550C2422@me.com>
Message-ID: <4FA12D1F.2050400@e-skinner.net>

I agree raid 5 should be out of the question for a hypervisor.

I have done the following for a very robust KVM hypervisor:

OS:
mirrorred 60gb ssd drives for the OS/utils/etc- $60-$80 a piece on sale 
  (software mirror using md) - LVM on top, and I actually created a 32gb 
LV for swap - in case my VM's all start using overcommitted memory - 
better to dip into SSD based swap vs spindle swap.

once you get a SAN or NAS, you can consider diskless boot as well.


Data:
5 1tb black Western Digital drives in raid-10, 1 hot spare (software 
mirror using md) = 2 tb usable.  i created a KVM_Images VG and then 
stick all my virtuals into it as LV's.  virtmanager is really easy to 
configure and does all the magic of LV creation etc for you.

3 1gb intel nics in bond mode 6 - very happy with the performance thus far.


backups, couple of choices - use a 3rd party tool that is KVM-aware, 
like arkiea or do host based backups.

or do LVM snapshots, just make sure to reserve enough snapshot room to 
commit all ongoing changes.


i have also used external USB3/SATA3 JBODS from sans digital - they work 
great for backups!


















On 05/02/2012 12:32 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> Ok, so you suggest multiples... how do you suggest I go about backing them up? It would be quite difficult to do that on a live FS, right? And logs?
>
> I'm definitely intrigued by this but I am concerned about implementation - especially if I leave the company and they suffer a catastrophic loss without a backup because I wasn't there to do it anymore and someone there thought it was too hard to continue (as the guy who got me my job [and holds the title of 'network engineer'] would definitely react)?
>
> Otherwise I'm giving consideration to a USB2-connected SSD.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions for a RAID enclosure? Preferably self-powered? Thanks!
>
> --
> Ryan
>
>
> On May 1, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>
>> If all you're doing is booting off it, your server will be obsolete before the lifespan of any modern flash drive ends.
>>
>> That said, do have a mirror of it sitting spare on the shelf!
>>
>> Actually, I'd have three of them: in use, mirror, known good previous config in case an upgrade doesn't go well. Flash drives (of the capacity you'd need for a boot disc) are cheap.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ryan Coleman<ryanjcole at me.com>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ryan -
>>>>
>>>>  From someone who has been bitten before:  Beware RAID-5 rebuilding times!
>>>>
>>>> With N drives in R5, you can lose 1. If you lose a second during the rebuild, it's time to take the whole thing down and restore from backup. Since rebuild time is proportional to the size of the array and because hard drives are getting lots bigger without getting much faster, that rebuild time could be a lot longer than you expect.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know but I'd rather have the capacity with the tolerance than not at all.
>>>
>>>> I've sworn off of RAID-5.
>>>>
>>>> RAID-10 or RAID-6 or just pairs of RAID-1 with LVM on top of it are all safer than 5.
>>>>
>>>> (Hmm - can anyone take a swing at characterizing the performance of RAID-10 vs. RAID-1 with LVM on top of it?)
>>>>
>>>> You mention adding 2, then 2 more. That gets my count to 6 drives. You said you have 4 bays. I would NOT run RAID over USB. (Yes, you can and I've done it to play with. Under load, I got enough random disconnects and errors that I wouldn't put it into production. )
>>>
>>> That's the same 2, sorry.
>>>
>>>> Do you have enough SATA ports, physical space and cooling capacity to handle 6 drives?
>>>>
>>>> You mentioned that speed is not a concern. If you don't need the space now that 6 drives would provide, you might consider only using 4 and then doing this dance again with 4 TB drives in future.
>>> See above.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Andrew may have been driving at putting your boot device on another, smaller volume. I have a server that is stuffed with 2 TB drives, but the OS lives on a very small USB thumb drive. It barely touches it after the initial boot and lets me use the server's bays for "real" disc space.
>>>
>>> I could possibly see this... I'd probably look at one of those micro USB drives; but I'd have to get a few of them. I don't like the lifespan of Flash.
>>>
>>>> Just some thoughts.
>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>> Thanks, Thomas. I'll look into the costs.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed May  2 13:07:00 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 13:07:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale Cisco/Linksys WRT54G2
Message-ID: <1335982020.18533.47.camel@sysadmin3a>

Looking to sell one WRT54G2 router. A cursory check shows it will run
DD-WRT or similar replacement firmware.

Price is $10 and will drop off or meet most anywhere in the south half
of the metro area

Included only is the unit itself and power cable. If you need an
ethernet cable or 3 let me know and I will throw those in too.



From ryanjcole at me.com  Wed May  2 13:24:03 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 13:24:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <4FA12D1F.2050400@e-skinner.net>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
	<4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
	<D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>
	<73387AB5-C931-4739-8B54-BC2B4E23DFB4@me.com>
	<523E1CEE-BF20-4FE8-9A73-CEE5B91A2B0C@gmail.com>
	<1B11187D-7C25-4909-8DC5-8697550C2422@me.com>
	<4FA12D1F.2050400@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <950AC3D3-8ED1-423E-8F97-E8D5CBE51B26@me.com>

So you're running it on top of another platform then? I'm using the packaged Linux kernel from VMware on this system... 

This is a PowerEdge R310

I believe it has packaged in (I haven't looked in a while)
Zeon 3400
8GB RAM
PERC H200
http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/poweredge-r310/pd



On May 2, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Marc Skinner wrote:

> I agree raid 5 should be out of the question for a hypervisor.
> 
> I have done the following for a very robust KVM hypervisor:
> 
> OS:
> mirrorred 60gb ssd drives for the OS/utils/etc- $60-$80 a piece on sale  (software mirror using md) - LVM on top, and I actually created a 32gb LV for swap - in case my VM's all start using overcommitted memory - better to dip into SSD based swap vs spindle swap.
> 
> once you get a SAN or NAS, you can consider diskless boot as well.
> 
> 
> Data:
> 5 1tb black Western Digital drives in raid-10, 1 hot spare (software mirror using md) = 2 tb usable.  i created a KVM_Images VG and then stick all my virtuals into it as LV's.  virtmanager is really easy to configure and does all the magic of LV creation etc for you.
> 
> 3 1gb intel nics in bond mode 6 - very happy with the performance thus far.
> 
> 
> backups, couple of choices - use a 3rd party tool that is KVM-aware, like arkiea or do host based backups.
> 
> or do LVM snapshots, just make sure to reserve enough snapshot room to commit all ongoing changes.
> 
> 
> i have also used external USB3/SATA3 JBODS from sans digital - they work great for backups!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 05/02/2012 12:32 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> Ok, so you suggest multiples... how do you suggest I go about backing them up? It would be quite difficult to do that on a live FS, right? And logs?
>> 
>> I'm definitely intrigued by this but I am concerned about implementation - especially if I leave the company and they suffer a catastrophic loss without a backup because I wasn't there to do it anymore and someone there thought it was too hard to continue (as the guy who got me my job [and holds the title of 'network engineer'] would definitely react)?
>> 
>> Otherwise I'm giving consideration to a USB2-connected SSD.
>> 
>> Anyone have any suggestions for a RAID enclosure? Preferably self-powered? Thanks!
>> 
>> --
>> Ryan
>> 
>> 
>> On May 1, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>> 
>>> If all you're doing is booting off it, your server will be obsolete before the lifespan of any modern flash drive ends.
>>> 
>>> That said, do have a mirror of it sitting spare on the shelf!
>>> 
>>> Actually, I'd have three of them: in use, mirror, known good previous config in case an upgrade doesn't go well. Flash drives (of the capacity you'd need for a boot disc) are cheap.
>>> 
>>> Thomas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ryan Coleman<ryanjcole at me.com>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Ryan -
>>>>> 
>>>>> From someone who has been bitten before:  Beware RAID-5 rebuilding times!
>>>>> 
>>>>> With N drives in R5, you can lose 1. If you lose a second during the rebuild, it's time to take the whole thing down and restore from backup. Since rebuild time is proportional to the size of the array and because hard drives are getting lots bigger without getting much faster, that rebuild time could be a lot longer than you expect.
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I know but I'd rather have the capacity with the tolerance than not at all.
>>>> 
>>>>> I've sworn off of RAID-5.
>>>>> 
>>>>> RAID-10 or RAID-6 or just pairs of RAID-1 with LVM on top of it are all safer than 5.
>>>>> 
>>>>> (Hmm - can anyone take a swing at characterizing the performance of RAID-10 vs. RAID-1 with LVM on top of it?)
>>>>> 
>>>>> You mention adding 2, then 2 more. That gets my count to 6 drives. You said you have 4 bays. I would NOT run RAID over USB. (Yes, you can and I've done it to play with. Under load, I got enough random disconnects and errors that I wouldn't put it into production. )
>>>> 
>>>> That's the same 2, sorry.
>>>> 
>>>>> Do you have enough SATA ports, physical space and cooling capacity to handle 6 drives?
>>>>> 
>>>>> You mentioned that speed is not a concern. If you don't need the space now that 6 drives would provide, you might consider only using 4 and then doing this dance again with 4 TB drives in future.
>>>> See above.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Andrew may have been driving at putting your boot device on another, smaller volume. I have a server that is stuffed with 2 TB drives, but the OS lives on a very small USB thumb drive. It barely touches it after the initial boot and lets me use the server's bays for "real" disc space.
>>>> 
>>>> I could possibly see this... I'd probably look at one of those micro USB drives; but I'd have to get a few of them. I don't like the lifespan of Flash.
>>>> 
>>>>> Just some thoughts.
>>>>> Thomas
>>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, Thomas. I'll look into the costs.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 


From tlunde at gmail.com  Wed May  2 13:46:24 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 13:46:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale Cisco/Linksys WRT54G2
In-Reply-To: <1335982020.18533.47.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <1335982020.18533.47.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <54F4086B-02C0-4DA2-B297-933424388297@gmail.com>

Which version of the G2 is it?

From:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series 

* Note: 1.5 of the WRT54G2 is NOT supported by dd-wrt. Apparently[clarification needed] it uses Atheros components that require more than the 2 MB of Flash Memory built-in for a dd-wrt solution.



Thanks
Thomas


On May 2, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> Looking to sell one WRT54G2 router. A cursory check shows it will run
> DD-WRT or similar replacement firmware.
> 
> Price is $10 and will drop off or meet most anywhere in the south half
> of the metro area
> 
> Included only is the unit itself and power cable. If you need an
> ethernet cable or 3 let me know and I will throw those in too.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120502/4d1e8698/attachment.html>

From marc at e-skinner.net  Wed May  2 14:09:30 2012
From: marc at e-skinner.net (marc skinner)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 14:09:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rebuilding my VM server - spec questions
In-Reply-To: <950AC3D3-8ED1-423E-8F97-E8D5CBE51B26@me.com>
References: <D0030C57-A259-4CCC-A839-93431AD3350C@me.com>
	<CAMh5oVrq40djEucQwnL2pUM_r2RWMvrBD6ce1oObgT03JjUg9w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2EF4133A-2613-414B-8AD1-2F256B43788B@me.com>
	<42A06970-1A2C-4840-B58A-9E81B3FAC5E7@gmail.com>
	<4251C84E-567D-4A10-B9EC-CE7664293ECF@me.com>
	<D1D4D0A7-09BD-4247-88EC-D33D077FDF4F@gmail.com>
	<73387AB5-C931-4739-8B54-BC2B4E23DFB4@me.com>
	<523E1CEE-BF20-4FE8-9A73-CEE5B91A2B0C@gmail.com>
	<1B11187D-7C25-4909-8DC5-8697550C2422@me.com>
	<4FA12D1F.2050400@e-skinner.net>
	<950AC3D3-8ED1-423E-8F97-E8D5CBE51B26@me.com>
Message-ID: <4FA1866A.7070607@e-skinner.net>

Not sure what you mean with your quesiton.  I was explaining my KVM 
hypervisor - I don't run a VMware hypervisor.  KVM is much better for my 
needs, since all my guests are Linux.  Cheaper and faster - check out 
http://www.spec.org/virt_sc2010/results/specvirt_sc2010_perf.html

On 5/2/12 1:24 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> So you're running it on top of another platform then? I'm using the packaged Linux kernel from VMware on this system...
>
> This is a PowerEdge R310
>
> I believe it has packaged in (I haven't looked in a while)
> Zeon 3400
> 8GB RAM
> PERC H200
> http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/poweredge-r310/pd
>
>
>
> On May 2, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Marc Skinner wrote:
>
>> I agree raid 5 should be out of the question for a hypervisor.
>>
>> I have done the following for a very robust KVM hypervisor:
>>
>> OS:
>> mirrorred 60gb ssd drives for the OS/utils/etc- $60-$80 a piece on sale  (software mirror using md) - LVM on top, and I actually created a 32gb LV for swap - in case my VM's all start using overcommitted memory - better to dip into SSD based swap vs spindle swap.
>>
>> once you get a SAN or NAS, you can consider diskless boot as well.
>>
>>
>> Data:
>> 5 1tb black Western Digital drives in raid-10, 1 hot spare (software mirror using md) = 2 tb usable.  i created a KVM_Images VG and then stick all my virtuals into it as LV's.  virtmanager is really easy to configure and does all the magic of LV creation etc for you.
>>
>> 3 1gb intel nics in bond mode 6 - very happy with the performance thus far.
>>
>>
>> backups, couple of choices - use a 3rd party tool that is KVM-aware, like arkiea or do host based backups.
>>
>> or do LVM snapshots, just make sure to reserve enough snapshot room to commit all ongoing changes.
>>
>>
>> i have also used external USB3/SATA3 JBODS from sans digital - they work great for backups!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/02/2012 12:32 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>> Ok, so you suggest multiples... how do you suggest I go about backing them up? It would be quite difficult to do that on a live FS, right? And logs?
>>>
>>> I'm definitely intrigued by this but I am concerned about implementation - especially if I leave the company and they suffer a catastrophic loss without a backup because I wasn't there to do it anymore and someone there thought it was too hard to continue (as the guy who got me my job [and holds the title of 'network engineer'] would definitely react)?
>>>
>>> Otherwise I'm giving consideration to a USB2-connected SSD.
>>>
>>> Anyone have any suggestions for a RAID enclosure? Preferably self-powered? Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>>>
>>>> If all you're doing is booting off it, your server will be obsolete before the lifespan of any modern flash drive ends.
>>>>
>>>> That said, do have a mirror of it sitting spare on the shelf!
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I'd have three of them: in use, mirror, known good previous config in case an upgrade doesn't go well. Flash drives (of the capacity you'd need for a boot disc) are cheap.
>>>>
>>>> Thomas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Ryan Coleman<ryanjcole at me.com>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On May 1, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  From someone who has been bitten before:  Beware RAID-5 rebuilding times!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With N drives in R5, you can lose 1. If you lose a second during the rebuild, it's time to take the whole thing down and restore from backup. Since rebuild time is proportional to the size of the array and because hard drives are getting lots bigger without getting much faster, that rebuild time could be a lot longer than you expect.
>>>>> Yeah, I know but I'd rather have the capacity with the tolerance than not at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've sworn off of RAID-5.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RAID-10 or RAID-6 or just pairs of RAID-1 with LVM on top of it are all safer than 5.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Hmm - can anyone take a swing at characterizing the performance of RAID-10 vs. RAID-1 with LVM on top of it?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mention adding 2, then 2 more. That gets my count to 6 drives. You said you have 4 bays. I would NOT run RAID over USB. (Yes, you can and I've done it to play with. Under load, I got enough random disconnects and errors that I wouldn't put it into production. )
>>>>> That's the same 2, sorry.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have enough SATA ports, physical space and cooling capacity to handle 6 drives?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mentioned that speed is not a concern. If you don't need the space now that 6 drives would provide, you might consider only using 4 and then doing this dance again with 4 TB drives in future.
>>>>> See above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew may have been driving at putting your boot device on another, smaller volume. I have a server that is stuffed with 2 TB drives, but the OS lives on a very small USB thumb drive. It barely touches it after the initial boot and lets me use the server's bays for "real" disc space.
>>>>> I could possibly see this... I'd probably look at one of those micro USB drives; but I'd have to get a few of them. I don't like the lifespan of Flash.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just some thoughts.
>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Thomas. I'll look into the costs.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed May  2 16:55:57 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 16:55:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale Cisco/Linksys WRT54G2
In-Reply-To: <54F4086B-02C0-4DA2-B297-933424388297@gmail.com>
References: <1335982020.18533.47.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<54F4086B-02C0-4DA2-B297-933424388297@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1335995757.18533.109.camel@sysadmin3a>

Assumming the "V1" printed on the unit correlates to the "Version 1.0"
on that wikipedia article....
It has two internal antennas for example and the FCC ID number in
wikipedia matches what is printed on the case


Version: 1.0
CPU: Broadcom BCM5354 @ 240 MHz
RAM: 16 MB
Flash: 2MB
Notes:
Two non-replaceable internal antennas.
3rd-party firmware: Fully compatible with DD-WRT (micro,
micro-plus,[12][13] and micro-plus with SSH [14] editions). Not
compatible with Tomato[15]and other third-party firmware solutions at
this time.
Firmware: VxWorks
FCC ID: Q87-WRT54G2V1




On Wed, 2012-05-02 at 13:46 -0500, Thomas Lunde wrote:
> Which version of the G2 is it?
> 
> 
> From:
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series 
> 
> 
> 
> * Note: 1.5 of the WRT54G2 is NOT supported by dd-wrt.
> Apparently[clarification needed] it uses Atheros components that
> require more than the 2 MB of Flash Memory built-in for a dd-wrt
> solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Thomas
> As
> 
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Looking to sell one WRT54G2 router. A cursory check shows it will
> > run
> > DD-WRT or similar replacement firmware.
> > 
> > Price is $10 and will drop off or meet most anywhere in the south
> > half
> > of the metro area
> > 
> > Included only is the unit itself and power cable. If you need an
> > ethernet cable or 3 let me know and I will throw those in too.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120502/84c4be42/attachment-0001.html>

From john.meier at gmail.com  Wed May  2 17:49:26 2012
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:49:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale Cisco/Linksys WRT54G2
In-Reply-To: <1335995757.18533.109.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <1335982020.18533.47.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<54F4086B-02C0-4DA2-B297-933424388297@gmail.com>
	<1335995757.18533.109.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <CAL0Bt0_DGN5_bN_gc8vYR87FN9sQ=p-6z1=vHXRCnnsV451K9g@mail.gmail.com>

>
> On May 2, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>   Looking to sell one WRT54G2 router. A cursory check shows it will run
> DD-WRT or similar replacement firmware.
>
>
I'll bite for $10.  If you still have it...
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120502/52dbb37f/attachment.html>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Wed May  2 18:11:03 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 18:11:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale Cisco/Linksys WRT54G2
In-Reply-To: <CAL0Bt0_DGN5_bN_gc8vYR87FN9sQ=p-6z1=vHXRCnnsV451K9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1335982020.18533.47.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<54F4086B-02C0-4DA2-B297-933424388297@gmail.com>
	<1335995757.18533.109.camel@sysadmin3a>
	<CAL0Bt0_DGN5_bN_gc8vYR87FN9sQ=p-6z1=vHXRCnnsV451K9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1336000263.18533.115.camel@sysadmin3a>

Yup, its yours.
We can figure out delivery offline.


On Wed, 2012-05-02 at 17:49 -0500, John Meier wrote:

> 
> 
> 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > On May 2, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Justin Krejci
>         > <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > 
>         > > Looking to sell one WRT54G2 router. A cursory check shows
>         > > it will run
>         > > DD-WRT or similar replacement firmware.
>         > > 
> 
> 
> I'll bite for $10.  If you still have it... 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120502/aff81200/attachment.html>

From admin at lctn.org  Thu May  3 11:29:29 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 11:29:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT Power supply specs
Message-ID: <4FA2B269.8080106@lctn.org>

Anyone know the specs for the power supply on the WinTV-PVR-USB2 model 941 ?

Seller didn't include one and there is no info on the device indicating 
what it should be.

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu May  3 11:37:31 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 11:37:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] OT Power supply specs
In-Reply-To: <4FA2B269.8080106@lctn.org>
References: <4FA2B269.8080106@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205031137200.29190@Dragon>

http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?20238-WinTV-PVR-USB2-Power-Adaptor



On Thu, 3 May 2012, Raymond Norton wrote:

> Anyone know the specs for the power supply on the WinTV-PVR-USB2 model 941 ?
>
> Seller didn't include one and there is no info on the device indicating what 
> it should be.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--

From admin at lctn.org  Thu May  3 15:06:39 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 15:06:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time
In-Reply-To: <20120501014009.GP2363@styx.iucha.org>
References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> <20120501014009.GP2363@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <4FA2E54F.1090507@lctn.org>


> Can you convert time into space (bytes) and use dd instead of cat?
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>

This is working for me and seems like the cleanest way to go. Working on 
file size vs duration now.



From admin at lctn.org  Thu May  3 15:08:28 2012
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 15:08:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT Power supply specs
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205031137200.29190@Dragon>
References: <4FA2B269.8080106@lctn.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205031137200.29190@Dragon>
Message-ID: <4FA2E5BC.7070104@lctn.org>



On 05/03/2012 11:37 AM, Yaron wrote:
> http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?20238-WinTV-PVR-USB2-Power-Adaptor
>
>
>
>


Thanks.. I was able to find one in my pile of power supplies that met 
those specs.

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May  3 16:56:04 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 16:56:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
	[SOLVED]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions.  A guy usually known as gkey 
(or "gk") was most helpful.  The crazy thing about my problem was that it 
wasn't all that difficult or tricky and most of the info on the web was 
steering me into all kinds of unneeded complexities.  It turned out that 
these were the issues:

(1) disks of more than 2TB have different requirements than disks of 2TB 
or less -- we can't use the usual DOS partitioning and fdisk with the 
bigger disks, so we have to use GPT partitioning and gdisk instead

(2) When using GPT partitions we can't add /boot to the RAID1, and /boot 
has to have partition type "BIOS boot partition".

(3) I was also told to leave 10MB empty at the beginning of both drives. 
I didn't test that those 10MB were actually needed, but I did leave that 
space and everything worked, so I'm inclined to believe the gkey's claim 
that it is necessary.


If you are trying to do this, I hope you won't be intimidated by the 
instructions below.  They aren't as long as they seem because most of it 
is output, not input.  It's pretty straightforward.


When installing Ubuntu 12.04 on the 3TB RAID1, it helps a lot to have 
cgdisk and gdisk handy, but they are not on the Live CD and they are not 
available via apt-get.  That's an annoyance Ubuntu should fix.  I had to 
compile them on another machine.  I then used scp to copy them over after 
booting to Live CD.  One trick was that I had to compile gdisk and cgdisk, 
but I only had an older Ubuntu box to compile it on.  When I copied the 
compiled binary for cgdisk to the running Ubuntu 12.04 Live CD, it didn't 
work because it was looking for older versions of various /usr/lib/libicu* 
files.  I had to edit the Makefile to fix that, which is a lot easier than 
you would think, especially given that they had instructions on how to fix 
this problem in the README file.  To make this easier for you, if you need 
to do this work, I put the two binaries here:

http://genetsim.org/gdisk/

...and you can download both of them and make them executable using this 
pair of commands:

wget http://genetsim.org/gdisk/{c,}gdisk
chmod 755 {c,}gdisk

The UTF support is turned off, so if you want to use special UTF 
characters in formatting your disks, this may not be for you.  If you want 
to know exactly what I did to make them work on Ubuntu, here's the info: 
I was using gdisk_0.8.1.orig.tar.gz.  The Makefile diff of changes is 
below (if you are not familiar, all this tells you is that any line shown 
below beginning with "<" was changed into the subsequent line beginning 
with ">").  Basically, I removed "-D USE_UTF16" and any option beginning 
with "-licu".

$ diff Makefile_original Makefile
4c4
< CXXFLAGS+=-Wall -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D USE_UTF16
---
> CXXFLAGS+=-Wall -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64
18c18
<       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) gdisk.o gpttext.o $(LDFLAGS) -licuio -licuuc -luuid -o gdisk
---
>       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) gdisk.o gpttext.o $(LDFLAGS) -luuid -o gdisk
22c22
<       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) cgdisk.o gptcurses.o $(LDFLAGS) -licuio -licuuc -luuid -lncurses -o cgdisk
---
>       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) cgdisk.o gptcurses.o $(LDFLAGS) -luuid -lncurses -o cgdisk
26c26
<       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) sgdisk.o gptcl.o $(LDFLAGS) -licuio -licuuc -luuid -lpopt -o sgdisk
---
>       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) sgdisk.o gptcl.o $(LDFLAGS) -luuid -lpopt -o sgdisk


The other thing you'll need to install is mdadm, for setting up the RAID1. 
That's a lot easier to get, if you have network connectivity:

sudo apt-get install mdadm
    this installs postfix, choose "local" installation, and default name


Now use cgdisk, e.g.,...

sudo cgdisk /dev/sda

...which I think is the easiest option, to set up the partitions.  You 
want to use blocks of a certain size so that you get proper alignment. 
Don't just make up numbers, actually multiply things out.  It wants you to 
supply a certain number of 512-byte blocks.  My HDD uses larger blocks, I 
think 2048-byte, but I did everything in terms of sets of 2048 512-byte 
blocks (mebibytes or MiBs).  In other words, in cgdisk, a mebibyte (MiB: 
1,048,576 bytes, formerly known as a megabyte) is 2048 and 10 MiB is 20480 
because that's the number of 512-byte blocks you'll be using.

In my simple case, I just wanted to leave 10 MiB free at the beginning, 
then have a 200 MiB /boot, a 32 GiB swap and the rest as /, but leaving 
about 100 MiB free at the end.  To do that I used these numbers of 512 
byte blocks...

start at 20480 add 409600
start at default add 67108864
start at default add 5792787343

...and these were the sizes, types and names of my partitions:

Part. #     Size        Partition Type            Partition Name
----------------------------------------------------------------
             10.0 MiB    free space
    1        200.0 MiB   BIOS boot partition       /boot
    2        32.0 GiB    Linux RAID                swap
    3        2.7 TiB     Linux RAID                /
             101.0 MiB   free space

Probably you will be like me and your first disk will be /dev/sda and the 
second will be /dev/sdb.  I ran cgdisk to get what you see above on 
/dev/sda then ran exactly the same numbers on /dev/sdb.

After running cgdisk, including writing the partitions (essential) and 
quitting, I checked what I had in gdisk as follows:

$ sudo ./gdisk -l /dev/sda
GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 0.8.1

Partition table scan:
   MBR: protective
   BSD: not present
   APM: not present
   GPT: present

Found valid GPT with protective MBR; using GPT.
Disk /dev/sda: 5860533168 sectors, 2.7 TiB
Logical sector size: 512 bytes
Disk identifier (GUID): 73650704-727A-4863-B31D-997F8201656C
Partition table holds up to 128 entries
First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 5860533134
Partitions will be aligned on 2048-sector boundaries
Total free space is 227294 sectors (111.0 MiB)

Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size       Code  Name
    1           20480          430079   200.0 MiB   EF02  /boot
    2          430080        67538943   32.0 GiB    FD00  swap
    3        67538944      5860326286   2.7 TiB     FD00  /

The result is identical for /dev/sdb, except for GUID:
Disk identifier (GUID): 60C3D922-19EC-4A14-8D6B-6F932CDC9D9C

Once you have the partitions, you can run mdadm to create the RAID1.  For 
me that went like this (first swap, then /):

sudo mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 --metadata=1.2
sudo mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 /dev/sda3 /dev/sdb3 --metadata=1.2

Note that I did not add /boot to the RAID -- that will cause Ubuntu to 
fail to load GRUB, so don't do that.

Next I set up the swap on the new swap partition on the RAID1:

$ sudo mkswap /dev/md0
mkswap: /dev/md0: warning: don't erase bootbits sectors
         on whole disk. Use -f to force.
Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 33553332 KiB
no label, UUID=559c4534-1d13-47d0-af72-e802d3d7f944


Now leave the Live CD and boot with the Alternate CD.  You need the 
Alternate CD to install Ubuntu on the RAID.  When you get to the screen 
where it asks you to partition your disks, the swap should be all set. 
Make sure to identify the RAID partition you will use for / and tell 
Ubuntu that / goes there and what format to use (e.g., ext4) -- setting up 
/ is done only in the RAID, not in the /dev/sda or /dev/sdb.  You might 
also check that both of the /boot partitions on /dev/sda and /dev/sdb are 
set up properly -- both called /boot and both using the "BIOS boot 
partition" type.

When you get the question about whether to install GRUB on both disks or 
just one of them (it says something about what happens whether you want to 
boot with a degraded drive) -- I chose both so that I will be able to boot 
with a degraded drive and see what's going on with it.  I'm not always in 
the office and if it is running I can see it remotely.

When Ubuntu installed GRUB, it then installed it on both /dev/sda and 
/dev/sdb.  I rebooted, everything looked great.

Thanks, everybody! (esp., gkey).

Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu May  3 21:31:50 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:31:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] terminating cat with specified time
In-Reply-To: <4FA2E54F.1090507@lctn.org>
References: <4F9ECFBF.8000601@lctn.org> <20120501014009.GP2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<4FA2E54F.1090507@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE_sckj12vZDozRBe+=n_f_Vt_2EoDSwB59H++viMxmoJA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:

>
>  Can you convert time into space (bytes) and use dd instead of cat?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> florin
>>
>>
> This is working for me and seems like the cleanest way to go. Working on
> file size vs duration now.
>
>
Very cool.  Does your block-device interface to your vcr translate reads
into "play/stop"?

Regardless, I thought Florin's idea was brilliant.

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120503/c52bcaa6/attachment.html>

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu May  3 21:37:28 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 21:37:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
	[SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>

Rock on, Mike.

Gratz on finding your way through that, and getting it working.  I enjoyed
reading your summary. :)

-Rob


On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions.  A guy usually known as gkey
> (or "gk") was most helpful.  The crazy thing about my problem was that it
> wasn't all that difficult or tricky and most of the info on the web was
> steering me into all kinds of unneeded complexities.  It turned out that
> these were the issues:
>
> (1) disks of more than 2TB have different requirements than disks of 2TB
> or less -- we can't use the usual DOS partitioning and fdisk with the
> bigger disks, so we have to use GPT partitioning and gdisk instead
>
> (2) When using GPT partitions we can't add /boot to the RAID1, and /boot
> has to have partition type "BIOS boot partition".
>
> (3) I was also told to leave 10MB empty at the beginning of both drives. I
> didn't test that those 10MB were actually needed, but I did leave that
> space and everything worked, so I'm inclined to believe the gkey's claim
> that it is necessary.
>
>
> If you are trying to do this, I hope you won't be intimidated by the
> instructions below.  They aren't as long as they seem because most of it is
> output, not input.  It's pretty straightforward.
>
>
> When installing Ubuntu 12.04 on the 3TB RAID1, it helps a lot to have
> cgdisk and gdisk handy, but they are not on the Live CD and they are not
> available via apt-get.  That's an annoyance Ubuntu should fix.  I had to
> compile them on another machine.  I then used scp to copy them over after
> booting to Live CD.  One trick was that I had to compile gdisk and cgdisk,
> but I only had an older Ubuntu box to compile it on.  When I copied the
> compiled binary for cgdisk to the running Ubuntu 12.04 Live CD, it didn't
> work because it was looking for older versions of various /usr/lib/libicu*
> files.  I had to edit the Makefile to fix that, which is a lot easier than
> you would think, especially given that they had instructions on how to fix
> this problem in the README file.  To make this easier for you, if you need
> to do this work, I put the two binaries here:
>
> http://genetsim.org/gdisk/
>
> ...and you can download both of them and make them executable using this
> pair of commands:
>
> wget http://genetsim.org/gdisk/{c,}**gdisk<http://genetsim.org/gdisk/%7Bc,%7Dgdisk>
> chmod 755 {c,}gdisk
>
> The UTF support is turned off, so if you want to use special UTF
> characters in formatting your disks, this may not be for you.  If you want
> to know exactly what I did to make them work on Ubuntu, here's the info: I
> was using gdisk_0.8.1.orig.tar.gz.  The Makefile diff of changes is below
> (if you are not familiar, all this tells you is that any line shown below
> beginning with "<" was changed into the subsequent line beginning with
> ">").  Basically, I removed "-D USE_UTF16" and any option beginning with
> "-licu".
>
> $ diff Makefile_original Makefile
> 4c4
> < CXXFLAGS+=-Wall -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D USE_UTF16
> ---
>
>> CXXFLAGS+=-Wall -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64
>>
> 18c18
> <       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) gdisk.o gpttext.o $(LDFLAGS) -licuio -licuuc
> -luuid -o gdisk
> ---
>
>>      $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) gdisk.o gpttext.o $(LDFLAGS) -luuid -o gdisk
>>
> 22c22
> <       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) cgdisk.o gptcurses.o $(LDFLAGS) -licuio -licuuc
> -luuid -lncurses -o cgdisk
> ---
>
>>      $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) cgdisk.o gptcurses.o $(LDFLAGS) -luuid -lncurses
>> -o cgdisk
>>
> 26c26
> <       $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) sgdisk.o gptcl.o $(LDFLAGS) -licuio -licuuc
> -luuid -lpopt -o sgdisk
> ---
>
>>      $(CXX) $(LIB_OBJS) sgdisk.o gptcl.o $(LDFLAGS) -luuid -lpopt -o
>> sgdisk
>>
>
>
> The other thing you'll need to install is mdadm, for setting up the RAID1.
> That's a lot easier to get, if you have network connectivity:
>
> sudo apt-get install mdadm
>   this installs postfix, choose "local" installation, and default name
>
>
> Now use cgdisk, e.g.,...
>
> sudo cgdisk /dev/sda
>
> ...which I think is the easiest option, to set up the partitions.  You
> want to use blocks of a certain size so that you get proper alignment.
> Don't just make up numbers, actually multiply things out.  It wants you to
> supply a certain number of 512-byte blocks.  My HDD uses larger blocks, I
> think 2048-byte, but I did everything in terms of sets of 2048 512-byte
> blocks (mebibytes or MiBs).  In other words, in cgdisk, a mebibyte (MiB:
> 1,048,576 bytes, formerly known as a megabyte) is 2048 and 10 MiB is 20480
> because that's the number of 512-byte blocks you'll be using.
>
> In my simple case, I just wanted to leave 10 MiB free at the beginning,
> then have a 200 MiB /boot, a 32 GiB swap and the rest as /, but leaving
> about 100 MiB free at the end.  To do that I used these numbers of 512 byte
> blocks...
>
> start at 20480 add 409600
> start at default add 67108864
> start at default add 5792787343
>
> ...and these were the sizes, types and names of my partitions:
>
> Part. #     Size        Partition Type            Partition Name
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----
>            10.0 MiB    free space
>   1        200.0 MiB   BIOS boot partition       /boot
>   2        32.0 GiB    Linux RAID                swap
>   3        2.7 TiB     Linux RAID                /
>            101.0 MiB   free space
>
> Probably you will be like me and your first disk will be /dev/sda and the
> second will be /dev/sdb.  I ran cgdisk to get what you see above on
> /dev/sda then ran exactly the same numbers on /dev/sdb.
>
> After running cgdisk, including writing the partitions (essential) and
> quitting, I checked what I had in gdisk as follows:
>
> $ sudo ./gdisk -l /dev/sda
> GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 0.8.1
>
> Partition table scan:
>  MBR: protective
>  BSD: not present
>  APM: not present
>  GPT: present
>
> Found valid GPT with protective MBR; using GPT.
> Disk /dev/sda: 5860533168 sectors, 2.7 TiB
> Logical sector size: 512 bytes
> Disk identifier (GUID): 73650704-727A-4863-B31D-**997F8201656C
> Partition table holds up to 128 entries
> First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 5860533134
> Partitions will be aligned on 2048-sector boundaries
> Total free space is 227294 sectors (111.0 MiB)
>
> Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size       Code  Name
>   1           20480          430079   200.0 MiB   EF02  /boot
>   2          430080        67538943   32.0 GiB    FD00  swap
>   3        67538944      5860326286   2.7 TiB     FD00  /
>
> The result is identical for /dev/sdb, except for GUID:
> Disk identifier (GUID): 60C3D922-19EC-4A14-8D6B-**6F932CDC9D9C
>
> Once you have the partitions, you can run mdadm to create the RAID1.  For
> me that went like this (first swap, then /):
>
> sudo mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 /dev/sda2
> /dev/sdb2 --metadata=1.2
> sudo mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level 1 --raid-devices 2 /dev/sda3
> /dev/sdb3 --metadata=1.2
>
> Note that I did not add /boot to the RAID -- that will cause Ubuntu to
> fail to load GRUB, so don't do that.
>
> Next I set up the swap on the new swap partition on the RAID1:
>
> $ sudo mkswap /dev/md0
> mkswap: /dev/md0: warning: don't erase bootbits sectors
>        on whole disk. Use -f to force.
> Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 33553332 KiB
> no label, UUID=559c4534-1d13-47d0-af72-**e802d3d7f944
>
>
> Now leave the Live CD and boot with the Alternate CD.  You need the
> Alternate CD to install Ubuntu on the RAID.  When you get to the screen
> where it asks you to partition your disks, the swap should be all set. Make
> sure to identify the RAID partition you will use for / and tell Ubuntu that
> / goes there and what format to use (e.g., ext4) -- setting up / is done
> only in the RAID, not in the /dev/sda or /dev/sdb.  You might also check
> that both of the /boot partitions on /dev/sda and /dev/sdb are set up
> properly -- both called /boot and both using the "BIOS boot partition" type.
>
> When you get the question about whether to install GRUB on both disks or
> just one of them (it says something about what happens whether you want to
> boot with a degraded drive) -- I chose both so that I will be able to boot
> with a degraded drive and see what's going on with it.  I'm not always in
> the office and if it is running I can see it remotely.
>
> When Ubuntu installed GRUB, it then installed it on both /dev/sda and
> /dev/sdb.  I rebooted, everything looked great.
>
> Thanks, everybody! (esp., gkey).
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120503/0aaa004c/attachment-0001.html>

From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Thu May  3 21:53:06 2012
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 21:53:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]
	=?utf-8?q?Ubuntu_12=2E04=3A_unable_to_install_GRUB_i?=
	=?utf-8?q?n_/dev/sda=09=5BSOLVED=5D?=
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>

I usually start off with a boot from System Rescue CD (includes gparted as
well as gdisk).  

http://www.sysresccd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage  

Set up partitioning much like Mike has done, and follow up with install with
distro of choice.? Plus, the SysRescue CD comes in handy if things go off
the rails later.  

Kelly
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120503/2de0668a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: 
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120503/2de0668a/attachment.ksh>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May  3 23:03:35 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 23:03:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
 [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 3 May 2012, kelly wrote:

> I usually start off with a boot from System Rescue CD (includes gparted 
> as well as gdisk).
>
> http://www.sysresccd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage
>
> Set up partitioning much like Mike has done, and follow up with install 
> with distro of choice.? Plus, the SysRescue CD comes in handy if things 
> go off the rails later.


That sounds like a very cool idea.  I should try it.  If this is really 
the list of what it includes, then it has mdadm, too:

http://www.sysresccd.org/Detailed-packages-list

I guess that would be all I need.  I'll bet it gives me root permissions 
so that I don't have to type "sudo" before every command.

Mike

From florin at iucha.net  Fri May  4 01:07:48 2012
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 01:07:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20120504060748.GD2363@styx.iucha.org>

On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 11:03:35PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> I guess that would be all I need.  I'll bet it gives me root permissions  
> so that I don't have to type "sudo" before every command.

'sudo screen' ?

florin

-- 
Beware of software written by optimists!
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120504/3c980f7d/attachment.pgp>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri May  4 01:39:31 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 01:39:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
In-Reply-To: <20120504060748.GD2363@styx.iucha.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<20120504060748.GD2363@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <64F04736-20D8-42CF-9601-C634AF0B1AF2@me.com>

On May 4, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 11:03:35PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>> I guess that would be all I need.  I'll bet it gives me root permissions  
>> so that I don't have to type "sudo" before every command.
> 
> 'sudo screen' ?


That does, though, defeat the purpose of sudo.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120504/00daefdd/attachment.html>

From florin at iucha.net  Fri May  4 02:08:52 2012
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 02:08:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
In-Reply-To: <64F04736-20D8-42CF-9601-C634AF0B1AF2@me.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<20120504060748.GD2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<64F04736-20D8-42CF-9601-C634AF0B1AF2@me.com>
Message-ID: <20120504070852.GG2363@styx.iucha.org>

On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 01:39:31AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> On May 4, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Florin Iucha wrote:
> > On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 11:03:35PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> >> I guess that would be all I need.  I'll bet it gives me root permissions  
> >> so that I don't have to type "sudo" before every command.
> > 
> > 'sudo screen' ?
> 
> That does, though, defeat the purpose of sudo.

Of course.  But this is what Mike sort of asked for.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Beware of software written by optimists!
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120504/c45ba951/attachment.pgp>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri May  4 10:04:38 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:04:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
In-Reply-To: <20120504070852.GG2363@styx.iucha.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<20120504060748.GD2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<64F04736-20D8-42CF-9601-C634AF0B1AF2@me.com>
	<20120504070852.GG2363@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041001530.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 4 May 2012, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 01:39:31AM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> On May 4, 2012, at 1:07 AM, Florin Iucha wrote:
>>> On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 11:03:35PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>>>> I guess that would be all I need.  I'll bet it gives me root permissions
>>>> so that I don't have to type "sudo" before every command.
>>>
>>> 'sudo screen' ?
>>
>> That does, though, defeat the purpose of sudo.
>
> Of course.  But this is what Mike sort of asked for.

Right, because we are talking about prepping the HDD for an Ubuntu 
installation from within a Live CD session, so the usual worries do not 
apply.  In fact, funny thing, it's hard to get used to the fact that the 
changes you make to the Ubuntu system within the Live CD session are not 
really changes at all.  For example, you could do "sudo rm -rf /" and 
it wouldn't matter.

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri May  4 11:02:00 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:02:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
In-Reply-To: <20120504070852.GG2363@styx.iucha.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<20120504060748.GD2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<64F04736-20D8-42CF-9601-C634AF0B1AF2@me.com>
	<20120504070852.GG2363@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205041101190.3049@Dragon>

On Fri, 4 May 2012, Florin Iucha wrote:

>>> 'sudo screen' ?
>> That does, though, defeat the purpose of sudo.
> Of course.  But this is what Mike sort of asked for.

Also you should just use sudo's built-in solution, which is to go
"sudo -s". This will give you a root shell.


-Yaron

--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri May  4 11:33:34 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:33:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04: unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205041101190.3049@Dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1204290338260.18229@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8CDRwDKNZbEidGLvhgYM8wHD-FPQsfsDnGn6RGAnBckw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA34492-000413B8@penguinpackets.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205032253520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<20120504060748.GD2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<64F04736-20D8-42CF-9601-C634AF0B1AF2@me.com>
	<20120504070852.GG2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205041101190.3049@Dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041118400.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 4 May 2012, Yaron wrote:

> On Fri, 4 May 2012, Florin Iucha wrote:
>
>>>> 'sudo screen' ?
>>> That does, though, defeat the purpose of sudo.
>> Of course.  But this is what Mike sort of asked for.
>
> Also you should just use sudo's built-in solution, which is to go "sudo 
> -s". This will give you a root shell.

I didn't know that one either!  I cut my teeth on Solaris during an era 
when there was no sudo, but I do like sudo.  When doing the install, 
though, I might as well go with "sudo -s" to make it a little easier.

It might sound crazy after all the hassles of that installation, but I 
might do it again just to take advantage of the new tricks I've been 
learning.  Or maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment.  I especially want 
to try the System Rescue CD.  I'm also thinking of making a /home 
partition to make later installations easier.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri May  4 11:49:45 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:49:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I know that the way most people partition hard drives now is by making a 
partition for swap and one for /, and that might be all they do.  That is 
convenient in some ways because when a directory needs more space, it can 
access it, if it exists.  On the other hand, with more partitions, a 
directory can only grow to the size of the partition, so partitions limit 
the growth of directories.

Of course, limiting the growth of directories is often a good thing. 
Without partition boundaries constraining growth, if a log file in /var is 
growing at a rate of 1 MB/sec, it won't take long for it to fill up all of 
the free space on the entire hard drive, and when that happens it may 
bring down the system.  So maybe I should use a /var partition to prevent 
excessive log growth from shutting down the system, but I don't know what 
is an appropriate size for /var?  It looks like my current /var is only 
using about 1 GB, but HDD space is cheap enough that I could give it 10 GB 
and not feel like I'm missing anything.  What would you recommend?

I'll want to put most of my space into /home, but how much do you think I 
should leave for /?  On my current system, / (after excluding both /var 
and /home) is only using about 54 GB, and it seems to have a lot of extra 
programs in it that I wouldn't use in the future, so I think 100 GB should 
be enough.  What do you think?  Is 100 GB for / good enough?

If I used 10 GB for /var and 100 GB for /, that would leave about 2.6 TB 
for /home.  These 3TB drives seem to be the cheapest option, per byte, 
right now, so I expect a lot of you will have them soon, if you don't 
already.

Mike

From ryanjcole at me.com  Fri May  4 11:58:55 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 11:58:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>

When I build systems - those of you who remember I am not a linux guy but rather FreeBSD - I do something like this:

Say I have 3TB drive like you cite... and 8GB RAM

[/]			250GB
[/var]		1TB
[/usr/home]	1.5TB
[/usr/ports]	5GB
[/usr/www]	250GB
[swap]		16GB

This is approximate but I build servers... so a large /var is almost required. If your flavor has a package build directory I would give that an explicit size rather than let it grow to file your entire FS. And I also have a fixed size for my web hosting directory...

My two bits.



On May 4, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Mike Miller wrote:

> I know that the way most people partition hard drives now is by making a partition for swap and one for /, and that might be all they do.  That is convenient in some ways because when a directory needs more space, it can access it, if it exists.  On the other hand, with more partitions, a directory can only grow to the size of the partition, so partitions limit the growth of directories.
> 
> Of course, limiting the growth of directories is often a good thing. Without partition boundaries constraining growth, if a log file in /var is growing at a rate of 1 MB/sec, it won't take long for it to fill up all of the free space on the entire hard drive, and when that happens it may bring down the system.  So maybe I should use a /var partition to prevent excessive log growth from shutting down the system, but I don't know what is an appropriate size for /var?  It looks like my current /var is only using about 1 GB, but HDD space is cheap enough that I could give it 10 GB and not feel like I'm missing anything.  What would you recommend?
> 
> I'll want to put most of my space into /home, but how much do you think I should leave for /?  On my current system, / (after excluding both /var and /home) is only using about 54 GB, and it seems to have a lot of extra programs in it that I wouldn't use in the future, so I think 100 GB should be enough.  What do you think?  Is 100 GB for / good enough?
> 
> If I used 10 GB for /var and 100 GB for /, that would leave about 2.6 TB for /home.  These 3TB drives seem to be the cheapest option, per byte, right now, so I expect a lot of you will have them soon, if you don't already.
> 
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From gm5729 at gmail.com  Fri May  4 12:27:26 2012
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (gk)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 12:27:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1336150801.9195.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1336150801.9195.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <CAFxDM3w2HkcfoZkBgJgsz3pURjnKjRL2n1hEULZJdthCX-vbpA@mail.gmail.com>

Depending on the purpose of the server/box is really what depends on
what areas need focusing. If no users are really going to be on the
system /home can me small. If it is a web server /var/www needs a lot
of free play. If this is a mail or print server /var/mail or
/var/spool needs the focus. If it is a general purpose server
spreading it all across the space is wise. You have to ask yourself
how much space you really need. Unless you are running Google, or some
business; or have a hell of a lot of multimedia why is a single 3TB
drive needed? You can get 2 1.5 TB's which will "technically" increase
your speed because of read and write times and having to seek for
data. Of course consumer drives run at ~ 7400RPMs and server drives
are ~15k RPMs.

Here is how I would break it up. Remember you don't have to partition
the whole drive on install. Leaving free space for later is
recommended too.

3TB ********************************************
10MB -- EE partition for GPT and MBR

250 MB for /boot

5GB for /

30GB /var

Swap -- 8GB or more depending on how much ram is installed. If you
plan to suspend/hibernate your swap space MUST be larger than RAM.

8GB /tmp  More if you compile a lot or use /tmpfs for things like Firefox, etc.

***Breaking these above 2 areas out allow for encryption of those areas

30GB for /usr

3GB /

1TB for /home

Leave the remainder for later additions OR fill up the drive and use
LVM to plan for future growth.


gkey



On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:00 PM,  <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ? ? ? ?http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc? (Mike Miller)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:49:45 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var,
> ? ? ? ?etc?
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I know that the way most people partition hard drives now is by making a
> partition for swap and one for /, and that might be all they do. ?That is
> convenient in some ways because when a directory needs more space, it can
> access it, if it exists. ?On the other hand, with more partitions, a
> directory can only grow to the size of the partition, so partitions limit
> the growth of directories.
>
> Of course, limiting the growth of directories is often a good thing.
> Without partition boundaries constraining growth, if a log file in /var is
> growing at a rate of 1 MB/sec, it won't take long for it to fill up all of
> the free space on the entire hard drive, and when that happens it may
> bring down the system. ?So maybe I should use a /var partition to prevent
> excessive log growth from shutting down the system, but I don't know what
> is an appropriate size for /var? ?It looks like my current /var is only
> using about 1 GB, but HDD space is cheap enough that I could give it 10 GB
> and not feel like I'm missing anything. ?What would you recommend?
>
> I'll want to put most of my space into /home, but how much do you think I
> should leave for /? ?On my current system, / (after excluding both /var
> and /home) is only using about 54 GB, and it seems to have a lot of extra
> programs in it that I wouldn't use in the future, so I think 100 GB should
> be enough. ?What do you think? ?Is 100 GB for / good enough?
>
> If I used 10 GB for /var and 100 GB for /, that would leave about 2.6 TB
> for /home. ?These 3TB drives seem to be the cheapest option, per byte,
> right now, so I expect a lot of you will have them soon, if you don't
> already.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 8
> *****************************************



-- 
---
Gregory Key
https://gm5729.wordpress.com/
Please conserve paper and print this email out ONLY if necessary.

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri May  4 15:02:34 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 15:02:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 11.04 updated-manager failing on laptop
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041446000.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

This is odd.  I noticed that I hadn't seen update-manager in a long time 
on my laptop.  I also thought I should upgrade to a newer version of 
Ubuntu.  So I tried running "sudo update-manager" from the terminal, but 
it only showed the following message and then stopped working:

---------------begin message on next line-------------------------------
An unresolvable problem occurred while initializing the package information.

Please report this bug against the 'update-manager' package and include the following error message:

'E:Encountered a section with no Package: header, E:Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_natty_main_binary-i386_Packages, E:The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.'
--------------end message on previous line------------------------------

When I look at this file...

/var/lib/apt/lists/us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_natty_main_binary-i386_Packages

...I see a bunch of information about a hotel I stayed in, in late June 
2011.  Every file in that directory has a date stamp from within the same 
minute from the morning of June 27, 2011, and every file with "ubuntu.com" 
in the filename has "Inn on the Park" in it -- the name of the hotel I was 
staying in.

I would have reported this bug, but I don't know how to do it and Ubuntu 
didn't bother to tell me, so I don't know if they really want to know. 
Also, I'm thinking it might be easier to just do a fresh install of 12.04. 
The fresh install should cure other weird problems I've had that might 
have been caused by upgrading from Netbook Remix to more newer versions of 
Ubuntu (specifically, I cannot launch Terminal from the launcher menu and 
I cannot fix it, nor could Brian [of Penguins Unbound] fix it).

Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Fri May  4 21:10:44 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 21:10:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm inclined to not segregate partitions out anymore.  The days of systems
crashing when /var is full are pretty much long gone (at least for linux),
and most systems come with good default log rotation schemes set up.

If I make a partition for a piece of the filesystem big enough to not have
to worry about it, I'm wasting disk.  If I make it to small, I'm wishing I
hadn't used partitions.  I have yet to build a system with swap and /
partitions and found it to have been a bad decision.

My $0.02.

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120504/7389b19e/attachment.html>

From florin at iucha.net  Fri May  4 21:36:42 2012
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 21:36:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
	<CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>

On Fri, May 04, 2012 at 09:10:44PM -0500, Robert Nesius wrote:
> I'm inclined to not segregate partitions out anymore.  The days of systems
> crashing when /var is full are pretty much long gone (at least for linux),
> and most systems come with good default log rotation schemes set up.
> 
> If I make a partition for a piece of the filesystem big enough to not have
> to worry about it, I'm wasting disk.  If I make it to small, I'm wishing I
> hadn't used partitions.  I have yet to build a system with swap and /
> partitions and found it to have been a bad decision.

I do segregate / + /usr from /var and /tmp because the files contained
have different life cycles, and I still try to avoid unnecessary
fragmentation of directory contents.

These days I'm leaving 8-12G for / (includes /usr), 2-4G for var, 4-8G
for swap (and mount /tmp as tmpfs so it only uses swap if needed) and
the rest split between /home, /scratch and /whatever-other-project-dir.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Beware of software written by optimists!
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120504/f61dc9ee/attachment.pgp>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sat May  5 00:29:42 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 00:29:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
	<CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DpVRdn54-1OKRQwq+KBedOGXeGhC5Awyy6SUK6YMw65w@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > I have yet to build a system with swap and /
> > partitions and found it to have been a bad decision.
>

all raid1 pairs:
sd[ab]1:md0:  os0 /boot:  300m
sd[ab]2:md1:  os1 /boot:  300m
sd[ab]3:md2:  os0 swap:  10g
sd[ab]5:md3:  os1 swap:  10g
sd[ab]6:md4:  os0 lvm:  half of remainder
sd[ab]7:md5:  os1 lvm:  the other half

start lvm with 2-10g for "the OS" ("/"), easily add custom data volumes,
openvz volumes, snapshots, all expandable/recyclable, even absorb os1 into
os0 at any time.  i keep swap outside of lvm mostly so i have partitions to
play with if i need to play games with installations and/or recovery.  i
used to use the same swap space for os0 and os1 until rhel6 came out with a
new raid1 format incompatible with the rhel5 raid1 format.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120505/459a9bc5/attachment-0001.html>

From marc at e-skinner.net  Sat May  5 15:12:30 2012
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 15:12:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DpVRdn54-1OKRQwq+KBedOGXeGhC5Awyy6SUK6YMw65w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
	<CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<CAD+dB9DpVRdn54-1OKRQwq+KBedOGXeGhC5Awyy6SUK6YMw65w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FA589AE.90704@e-skinner.net>

LVM, LVM, LVM!  keep some disk space unallocated, it will be a life saver!

lots of good ideas and common server practices around separating out 
partitions - you can't plan for everything so, might as well plan for 
out of disk space - and build out a practical reserve that can be used 
any time.  the days of rebooting to add or grow a partition are gone!

make a standard for your environment, stick with it.  there are always 
exceptions - might as well have a common starting point.

good luck.





On 05/05/2012 12:29 AM, gregrwm wrote:
>      > I have yet to build a system with swap and /
>      > partitions and found it to have been a bad decision.
>
>
> all raid1 pairs:
> sd[ab]1:md0:  os0 /boot:  300m
> sd[ab]2:md1:  os1 /boot:  300m
> sd[ab]3:md2:  os0 swap:  10g
> sd[ab]5:md3:  os1 swap:  10g
> sd[ab]6:md4:  os0 lvm:  half of remainder
> sd[ab]7:md5:  os1 lvm:  the other half
>
> start lvm with 2-10g for "the OS" ("/"), easily add custom data volumes,
> openvz volumes, snapshots, all expandable/recyclable, even absorb os1
> into os0 at any time.  i keep swap outside of lvm mostly so i have
> partitions to play with if i need to play games with installations
> and/or recovery.  i used to use the same swap space for os0 and os1
> until rhel6 came out with a new raid1 format incompatible with the rhel5
> raid1 format.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryanjcole at me.com  Sat May  5 15:26:29 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 15:26:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <4FA589AE.90704@e-skinner.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
	<CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<CAD+dB9DpVRdn54-1OKRQwq+KBedOGXeGhC5Awyy6SUK6YMw65w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA589AE.90704@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <15FD7D72-15B3-4C01-82DB-1626419BF5A4@me.com>


On May 5, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Marc Skinner wrote:

> LVM, LVM, LVM!  keep some disk space unallocated, it will be a life saver!
> 
> lots of good ideas and common server practices around separating out partitions - you can't plan for everything so, might as well plan for out of disk space - and build out a practical reserve that can be used any time.  the days of rebooting to add or grow a partition are gone!
> 
> make a standard for your environment, stick with it.  there are always exceptions - might as well have a common starting point.
> 
> good luck.


I have to say that's not very cost efficient... you might as well also buy an extra drive and RAID-1 to plan for a failure. And also have a spare board, RAM and CPU on hand in case something else dies.

Drives are (relatively) cheap (even after the drivflation).
 

From marc at e-skinner.net  Sat May  5 18:04:52 2012
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 18:04:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <15FD7D72-15B3-4C01-82DB-1626419BF5A4@me.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
	<CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<CAD+dB9DpVRdn54-1OKRQwq+KBedOGXeGhC5Awyy6SUK6YMw65w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA589AE.90704@e-skinner.net>
	<15FD7D72-15B3-4C01-82DB-1626419BF5A4@me.com>
Message-ID: <4FA5B214.1050406@e-skinner.net>

Hardware is pretty much the lowest price in your business solution - 
what is the cost of the server being down?  I'm talking enterprise now, 
not home use of course.

Most of the enterprises I work with have multiple servers for their 
important apps - in application clusters or in virtual clusters - they 
have raid'ed disk subsystems, and there is a lot of extra disk space to 
go around.

When your building solutions for an enterprise - you have to expect 
failures, what does that failure mean to your business.  There is a 
reason commodity x86 platforms are taking all the proprietary unix 
workloads, cost, scale-out etc.  With that low cost you can have 
multiple systems, spare boards, etc on the shelf, and most of my 
customers do.

All I'm saying is use LVM, don't allocate all your disk space ahead of 
time - have a safety net!  Disk is cheap.




On 05/05/2012 03:26 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
> On May 5, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Marc Skinner wrote:
>
>> LVM, LVM, LVM!  keep some disk space unallocated, it will be a life saver!
>>
>> lots of good ideas and common server practices around separating out partitions - you can't plan for everything so, might as well plan for out of disk space - and build out a practical reserve that can be used any time.  the days of rebooting to add or grow a partition are gone!
>>
>> make a standard for your environment, stick with it.  there are always exceptions - might as well have a common starting point.
>>
>> good luck.
>
>
> I have to say that's not very cost efficient... you might as well also buy an extra drive and RAID-1 to plan for a failure. And also have a spare board, RAM and CPU on hand in case something else dies.
>
> Drives are (relatively) cheap (even after the drivflation).
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun May  6 02:28:19 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 02:28:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Synaptic v. Aptitude v. Ubuntu Software Center
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060145510.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

The new Ubuntu 12.04 comes with the Ubuntu Software Center, but it does 
not have Synaptic anymore, and I guess they dropped Synaptic one or two 
versions ago.  Synaptic was pretty easy to use and I could easily select 
dozens of packages and let the installation run unattended.  The Software 
Center doesn't seem to work that way -- I click "Install" and it starts 
installing, but while one package is installing, I can't choose others.

Synaptic can be selected in the Software Center, so I did that, but it 
won't run.  I get this error:

No protocol specified
No protocol specified

(synaptic:12287): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0


I read through the following huge pile of junk only to find that the 
"solution" is to use 11.10 instead of 12.04 ... not helpful ...

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1961352

I think the second-to-last post (page 4) is explaining the source of the 
problem, but that isn't helping me because I don't understand how to fix 
it (or if that's even possible).


Meanwhile, it sounds like some people think Aptitude is the thing to use 
-- even better than Synaptic.  Any opinions?  I guess I'll have to try it.


I have to admit that I find some of the Ubuntu team's choices to be hard 
to understand.  Is there something more important than their package 
management system?  Probably not to me, at least, so they shouldn't screw 
it up.  It's why I use Ubuntu instead of something else, I think.  Well, 
that and inertia.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun May  6 03:17:16 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 03:17:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <4FA5B214.1050406@e-skinner.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
	<CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
	<CAD+dB9DpVRdn54-1OKRQwq+KBedOGXeGhC5Awyy6SUK6YMw65w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FA589AE.90704@e-skinner.net>
	<15FD7D72-15B3-4C01-82DB-1626419BF5A4@me.com>
	<4FA5B214.1050406@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060303340.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I have three different situations to deal with:

(1) laptop or small desktop
(2) office desktop, also a small server
(3) cluster with 120 cores and RAID5

For case (1), I'm just using swap and /.  There will never be a lot of 
data on such machines and I'll just copy it onto a flash drive or external 
drive if I need to replace an HDD or do a fresh install.  I just did that 
with a laptop and it worked well.

For case (2), I'm less sure of what I want, but I think it makes sense to 
have swap, /boot, /, and /home.  I may have a lot in /home.  I'll be using 
RAID1 and backing up to an external drive, too.  If I need to do a fresh 
install, it will be nice to not have to copy 2TB of data back onto the 
RAID.  If another user (I wouldn't have many other users) manages to fill 
up /home, at least it won't affect files in /.  I think /var might make 
sense as an additional partition, but I'll just watch my log files 
instead.

For case (3), I let someone else do it!  We have a team for that.  I think 
they are using LVM and leaving some unpartitioned space.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts about this.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun May  6 03:45:30 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 03:45:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Synaptic v. Aptitude v. Ubuntu Software Center
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060145510.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060145510.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060336570.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 6 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> Synaptic can be selected in the Software Center, so I did that, but it 
> won't run.  I get this error:
>
> No protocol specified
> No protocol specified
>
> (synaptic:12287): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0


I was using "sudo synaptic" to get that error, but if I use simply 
"synaptic", then it runs, but it notes that I do not have root 
permissions.  I'm not the first to have this problem, apparently.  There 
are plenty of lengthy discussions about it with many proposed solutions 
failing.

It seems that root isn't allowed to access my display :0.  That's odd. 
After awhile I decided that maybe it was because I hadn't rebooted after 
installing a bunch of packages (including synaptic).  So I rebooted. 
That solved it.  Now "sudo synaptic" works just fine.

So that solves the synaptic problem but I still would like to hear what 
all of you are using.  Thanks.

Mike

From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Sun May  6 08:12:18 2012
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 08:12:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Synaptic v. Aptitude v. Ubuntu Software Center
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060336570.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060145510.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060336570.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20120506081218.005b6233@Newton>

On Sun, 6 May 2012 03:45:30 -0500 (CDT)
Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was using "sudo synaptic" to get that error, but if I use simply 
> "synaptic", then it runs, but it notes that I do not have root 
> permissions.  

I always use gksudo or kdesudo when starting graphical applications
as root.  Maybe just using "sudo" could have been part of the problem?

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo#Graphical_sudo

-Max

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon May  7 00:24:08 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 00:24:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Synaptic v. Aptitude v. Ubuntu Software Center
In-Reply-To: <20120506081218.005b6233@Newton>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060145510.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205060336570.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<20120506081218.005b6233@Newton>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205070020230.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 6 May 2012, Max Shinn wrote:

> On Sun, 6 May 2012 03:45:30 -0500 (CDT) Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was using "sudo synaptic" to get that error, but if I use simply 
>> "synaptic", then it runs, but it notes that I do not have root 
>> permissions.
>
> I always use gksudo or kdesudo when starting graphical applications as 
> root.  Maybe just using "sudo" could have been part of the problem?
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo#Graphical_sudo


That's a good guess, and there were a lot of suggestions about gksu and 
gksudo on the Ubuntu pages when I looked for solutions, but that didn't 
help at all.  It was always the same error with any of these commands:

sudo synaptic
gksudo synaptic
gksu synaptic

Or with this too:

sudo su -
synaptic

Nothing worked, but rebooting solved the problem immediately.  There must 
have been something a little off in one of the packages I installed and it 
didn't tell me I had to reboot, probably because it wasn't supposed to 
require a reboot.  After rebooting, this works fine:

sudo synaptic

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon May  7 01:00:31 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 01:00:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how does /boot work in RAID1 if it isn't in the RAID?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041149540.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

In my other RAID1s I've had /boot in the RAID.  Actually, there was no 
separate /boot partition, it was just in / and that seemed to work.  Now 
that I have a larger HDD, > 2TB, and I have to use GPT instead of DOS, 
I've had to make /boot partitions on both physical drives in the RAID1, 
but the two /boot partitions are not in the RAID.  When I had Ubuntu 
install grub, it installed it on both /dev/sda and /dev/sdb, which is 
where the two /boot partitions are found.

The thing that concerns me is that I don't see /boot if I run df, and I'm 
not sure how kernel upgrades will be handled.  Will they go to the hidden 
/boot partitions on both /dev/sda and /dev/sdb?  Ubuntu was clearly aware 
of them and I told the install that I wanted to be able to boot even with 
a degraded drive, so it was supposed to install the boot loader on both 
physical drives (and it seemed to do that).

What do you think?

Thanks again for answering so many of my questions!

Mike

From chrome at real-time.com  Mon May  7 09:05:08 2012
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:05:08 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
In-Reply-To: <20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041133401.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5DF406DC-F1AC-4061-8B79-3BC200E732FB@me.com>
	<CAOOsjE_RTh-8s+OGUVFeMLxmps=ztLJB+wED5y58DC_KOhObMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120505023641.GI2363@styx.iucha.org>
Message-ID: <20120507140508.GO5146@real-time.com>

For the past several years I've been of the mindset that systems should be
partitioned up by dividing the OS (the bits that make things go) from the
data (the bits that you actually care about).

So in the case of a webserver, /var/www would get its own partition and
everything else would be on another partition (/). In the case of a shell
server, /home would get its own partition and everything else would be on /.
Obviously this shouldn't be a hard-and-fast rule; a fileserver may have user
data in /var/samba and /home - which you could hardlink together, or make
separate partitions for.

The reasoning behind this is that if you have some sort of storage failure
(filesystem corruption, disk failure, etc) you have either:

1. the OS to help recover the data
OR
2. the data preserved and you just have to fix up the OS.

This sort of partitioning scheme has saved me a number of times.

The more partitions you have of course, the greater the likelihood that
you'll run out of space on one of them. (LVM helps alleviate this, but isn't
always the best choice when optimizing for the common case).

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From gm5729 at gmail.com  Mon May  7 12:05:38 2012
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (gk)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:05:38 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
Message-ID: <CAFxDM3wxmFPeTHfbccxWHmzNQnkjosSi2UJ8HbWDNgMAOP4mjg@mail.gmail.com>

That is the way I have learned too Carl. OS doesn't matter in the end
analysis. You losing the companies data will get your arse fired on
the spot! It is well known that companies that lose catastrophically
their data go out of biz usually within a year.

gkey


> ? 3. Re: how much space for partitions /, /home, /var, etc?
> ? ? ?(Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)

> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 10:05:08 -0400
> From: Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <chrome at real-time.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] how much space for partitions /, /home,
> ? ? ? ?/var, etc?
> Message-ID: <20120507140508.GO5146 at real-time.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> For the past several years I've been of the mindset that systems should be
> partitioned up by dividing the OS (the bits that make things go) from the
> data (the bits that you actually care about).
>
> So in the case of a webserver, /var/www would get its own partition and
> everything else would be on another partition (/). In the case of a shell
> server, /home would get its own partition and everything else would be on /.
> Obviously this shouldn't be a hard-and-fast rule; a fileserver may have user
> data in /var/samba and /home - which you could hardlink together, or make
> separate partitions for.
>
> The reasoning behind this is that if you have some sort of storage failure
> (filesystem corruption, disk failure, etc) you have either:
>
> 1. the OS to help recover the data
> OR
> 2. the data preserved and you just have to fix up the OS.
>
> This sort of partitioning scheme has saved me a number of times.
>
> The more partitions you have of course, the greater the likelihood that
> you'll run out of space on one of them. (LVM helps alleviate this, but isn't
> always the best choice when optimizing for the common case).
>
> --
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 11
> ******************************************



-- 
---
Gregory Key
https://gm5729.wordpress.com/
Please conserve paper and print this email out ONLY if necessary.

From nesius at gmail.com  Mon May  7 21:09:23 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:09:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how does /boot work in RAID1 if it isn't in the
	RAID?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041149540.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041149540.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE_EFeB03RyaWy0QdZ4o1=ObN3MBn39b+VoRmNJk=55LFA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike,

Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but I had thought you had created to small
partitions named boot or /boot that were outside of the raid for the sole
purpose of giving your bootloader a home that your BIOS can deal with.  So,
I'm not surprised you don't see it when you run df, as I'm guessing you
haven't added that little partition to your fstab?

I'm just trying to helpfully brainstorm. :)

-Rob

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> In my other RAID1s I've had /boot in the RAID.  Actually, there was no
> separate /boot partition, it was just in / and that seemed to work.  Now
> that I have a larger HDD, > 2TB, and I have to use GPT instead of DOS, I've
> had to make /boot partitions on both physical drives in the RAID1, but the
> two /boot partitions are not in the RAID.  When I had Ubuntu install grub,
> it installed it on both /dev/sda and /dev/sdb, which is where the two /boot
> partitions are found.
>
> The thing that concerns me is that I don't see /boot if I run df, and I'm
> not sure how kernel upgrades will be handled.  Will they go to the hidden
> /boot partitions on both /dev/sda and /dev/sdb?  Ubuntu was clearly aware
> of them and I told the install that I wanted to be able to boot even with a
> degraded drive, so it was supposed to install the boot loader on both
> physical drives (and it seemed to do that).
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks again for answering so many of my questions!
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120507/2b2e6390/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue May  8 01:54:48 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 01:54:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] how does /boot work in RAID1 if it isn't in the
 RAID?
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE_EFeB03RyaWy0QdZ4o1=ObN3MBn39b+VoRmNJk=55LFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041149540.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE_EFeB03RyaWy0QdZ4o1=ObN3MBn39b+VoRmNJk=55LFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205072225100.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 7 May 2012, Robert Nesius wrote:

> Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but I had thought you had created to small 
> partitions named boot or /boot that were outside of the raid for the 
> sole purpose of giving your bootloader a home that your BIOS can deal 
> with.  So, I'm not surprised you don't see it when you run df, as I'm 
> guessing you haven't added that little partition to your fstab?
>
> I'm just trying to helpfully brainstorm. :)

Aha!  That makes sense.  So it isn't being mounted.  I'll study this 
further.  Does it have to be mounted for kernel upgrades to work properly?

Mike

From nesius at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:08:01 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 02:08:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how does /boot work in RAID1 if it isn't in the
	RAID?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205072225100.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041149540.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE_EFeB03RyaWy0QdZ4o1=ObN3MBn39b+VoRmNJk=55LFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205072225100.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE8NiJ91u3bjp5jxR5SdxKUsytwwmYgyVRnG83rjYB3jqQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:54 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 May 2012, Robert Nesius wrote:
>
>  Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but I had thought you had created to small
>> partitions named boot or /boot that were outside of the raid for the sole
>> purpose of giving your bootloader a home that your BIOS can deal with.  So,
>> I'm not surprised you don't see it when you run df, as I'm guessing you
>> haven't added that little partition to your fstab?
>>
>> I'm just trying to helpfully brainstorm. :)
>>
>
> Aha!  That makes sense.  So it isn't being mounted.  I'll study this
> further.  Does it have to be mounted for kernel upgrades to work properly?
>
>
No - I don't think it does.  When you upgrade your kernel, your boot-loader
configs should get updated automagically.

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120508/969d6aae/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:14:34 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 02:14:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI?  Use my script.
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

See my one-liner below, with documentation.

Body Mass Index, or BMI, is weight/height?, but weight is in kilograms and 
height is in meters, so the units are kg/m?.  We usually measure height in 
feet and inches and weight in pounds, so I wrote this little script for 
computing BMI from height in inches and weight in pounds.  I call the 
script "bmi".  Supposedly, if your BMI exceeds 30, you are obese and if it 
exceeds 25, you are overweight.  A lot of us sit around too much, so we 
are prone to gain weight and to get type-2 diabetes.  Good diet and 
exercise are critical for prevention.

I just thought you might like the little piece of awk code.  I'm too lazy 
to write out the if/else statements to get it to tell you if you are 
underweight, normal, overweight or obese, or to tell you how many pounds 
you should lose.  I might add that someday.  (I'm about 9 lbs overweight.)

Inevitably someone will point out that it doesn't distinguish fat mass 
from muscle mass, which is true.  If you are unusually muscular, or the 
opposite, you'll want to take that into account.  It turns out to 
correlate very well with harder-to-obtain measures of body fat.

Mike


---------------begin script on next line----------------
#!/bin/bash

# Computes your Body Mass Index (BMI) from height
# in inches and weight in pounds
#
# Syntax:
#
# bmi num1 num2
# 
# where num1 is height in inches and
#       num2 is weight in pounds
#
# http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/
#
# Underweight = <18.5
# Normal weight = 18.5?24.9
# Overweight = 25?29.9
# Obese = > 30


echo $1 $2 | awk '{printf("%.1f kg/m?", 703.06958*$2/$1^2)}'
--------------end script on previous line---------------

From jake.vath at gmail.com  Tue May  8 07:47:30 2012
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 07:47:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI? Use my script.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmipmBQ8zU19uuV_aeu1GihSfm_s3sJbkgDMgCOxQL7www@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know why, but I find this idea to be unusually cool...
A Bash script for computing my BMI? I never thought of using Bash to
implement a solution like this, it's fun.

 I'm too lazy to write out the if/else statements to get it to tell you if
> you are underweight, normal, overweight or obese, or to tell you how many
> pounds you should lose.

If I have time this week, I might do that. I'll send it back out to the
list if I do.

Thanks!

-> Jake

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> See my one-liner below, with documentation.
>
> Body Mass Index, or BMI, is weight/height?, but weight is in kilograms and
> height is in meters, so the units are kg/m?.  We usually measure height in
> feet and inches and weight in pounds, so I wrote this little script for
> computing BMI from height in inches and weight in pounds.  I call the
> script "bmi".  Supposedly, if your BMI exceeds 30, you are obese and if it
> exceeds 25, you are overweight.  A lot of us sit around too much, so we are
> prone to gain weight and to get type-2 diabetes.  Good diet and exercise
> are critical for prevention.
>
> I just thought you might like the little piece of awk code.  I'm too lazy
> to write out the if/else statements to get it to tell you if you are
> underweight, normal, overweight or obese, or to tell you how many pounds
> you should lose.  I might add that someday.  (I'm about 9 lbs overweight.)
>
> Inevitably someone will point out that it doesn't distinguish fat mass
> from muscle mass, which is true.  If you are unusually muscular, or the
> opposite, you'll want to take that into account.  It turns out to correlate
> very well with harder-to-obtain measures of body fat.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ---------------begin script on next line----------------
> #!/bin/bash
>
> # Computes your Body Mass Index (BMI) from height
> # in inches and weight in pounds
> #
> # Syntax:
> #
> # bmi num1 num2
> # # where num1 is height in inches and
> #       num2 is weight in pounds
> #
> # http://www.nhlbisupport.com/**bmi/ <http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/>
> #
> # Underweight = <18.5
> # Normal weight = 18.5?24.9
> # Overweight = 25?29.9
> # Obese = > 30
>
>
> echo $1 $2 | awk '{printf("%.1f kg/m?", 703.06958*$2/$1^2)}'
> --------------end script on previous line---------------
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120508/740277dd/attachment-0001.html>

From tlunde at gmail.com  Tue May  8 08:08:15 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 08:08:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how does /boot work in RAID1 if it isn't in the
	RAID?
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE8NiJ91u3bjp5jxR5SdxKUsytwwmYgyVRnG83rjYB3jqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041149540.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE_EFeB03RyaWy0QdZ4o1=ObN3MBn39b+VoRmNJk=55LFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205072225100.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8NiJ91u3bjp5jxR5SdxKUsytwwmYgyVRnG83rjYB3jqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34DF958B-86F7-404C-B948-5FCF70E7F85C@gmail.com>



On May 8, 2012, at 2:08 AM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:54 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 May 2012, Robert Nesius wrote:
> 
> Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but I had thought you had created to small partitions named boot or /boot that were outside of the raid for the sole purpose of giving your bootloader a home that your BIOS can deal with.  So, I'm not surprised you don't see it when you run df, as I'm guessing you haven't added that little partition to your fstab?
> 
> I'm just trying to helpfully brainstorm. :)
> 
> Aha!  That makes sense.  So it isn't being mounted.  I'll study this further.  Does it have to be mounted for kernel upgrades to work properly?
> 
> 
> No - I don't think it does.  When you upgrade your kernel, your boot-loader configs should get updated automagically. 
> 
> -Rob
>  



What!?!?

How can the kernel upgrade process put the new kernel in the correct /boot partition if it isn't mounted?

What I suspect is that the upgrade process might (silently?) create a /boot directory in the RAID-ed / which would not be useful because the BIOS might not be able to see into it. If you have a separate partition for /boot then you would want the /boot mount point directory to exist AND be empty on the RAID-ed / partition. 


That said, I thought that GRUB (grub2?) had been updated so that non-RAID /boot partitions were no longer required. 

Thomas 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120508/28e2d8c0/attachment.html>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Tue May  8 08:43:55 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 08:43:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI? Use my script.
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmipmBQ8zU19uuV_aeu1GihSfm_s3sJbkgDMgCOxQL7www@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmipmBQ8zU19uuV_aeu1GihSfm_s3sJbkgDMgCOxQL7www@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6352D84A-678D-42E9-B8B7-306A87C226AD@me.com>


On May 8, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Jake Vath wrote:

> I don't know why, but I find this idea to be unusually cool... 
> A Bash script for computing my BMI? I never thought of using Bash to implement a solution like this, it's fun.

Except I ran my numbers based on being 5 feet tall instead of 6... Man I'm obese!

44 instead of 31? oops.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue May  8 08:46:28 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 08:46:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] how does /boot work in RAID1 if it isn't in the
	RAID?
In-Reply-To: <34DF958B-86F7-404C-B948-5FCF70E7F85C@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205041149540.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE_EFeB03RyaWy0QdZ4o1=ObN3MBn39b+VoRmNJk=55LFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205072225100.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOOsjE8NiJ91u3bjp5jxR5SdxKUsytwwmYgyVRnG83rjYB3jqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<34DF958B-86F7-404C-B948-5FCF70E7F85C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BOa_AgEPaRcJpQryiM7ScMKh2B+-JNtsKsPtfwt6oq=g@mail.gmail.com>

i thought this pickle was because the installer wouldn't handle it.
quite likely grub would be happy enough inside the raid.  if you feel
safer or happier with grub inside the raid, you can probably put it
there.  but if you (or the update process) create /boot inside the
raid, bootup will still come from un-updated partition outside the
raid, until you "grub-install" for your new /boot.  or if you want to
leave your boot partition where it is, again, then you want to get the
updating to happen with the copy the gpt-mbr points to, iow have it in
fstab and mounted as /boot.

From gsker at skerbitz.org  Tue May  8 12:13:28 2012
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:13:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI? Use my script.
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmipmBQ8zU19uuV_aeu1GihSfm_s3sJbkgDMgCOxQL7www@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmipmBQ8zU19uuV_aeu1GihSfm_s3sJbkgDMgCOxQL7www@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205081203470.3428@veeta>

> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
[SNIP]
>       ---------------begin script on next line----------------
>       #!/bin/bash
>
>       # Computes your Body Mass Index (BMI) from height
>       # in inches and weight in pounds
>       #
>       # Syntax:
>       #
>       # bmi num1 num2
>       # # where num1 is height in inches and
>       # ? ? ? num2 is weight in pounds
>       #
>       # http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/
>       #
>       # Underweight = <18.5
>       # Normal weight = 18.5?24.9
>       # Overweight = 25?29.9
>       # Obese = > 30
> 
>
>       echo $1 $2 | awk '{printf("%.1f kg/m?", 703.06958*$2/$1^2)}'
>       --------------end script on previous line---------------

I'd get rid of the epensive bash call. :-)

#! /usr/bin/awk -f
BEGIN {printf("%.1f kg/m?\n", 703.06958*ARGV[2]/ARGV[1]^2)}


-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue May  8 18:17:16 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:17:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI?  Use my script.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20120508181716.65214e8670b958e86f81d262@jasonhsu.com>

I'd add a carriage return at the end of the printout so that the BMI figure isn't mashed together with the following command problem.

Thus, the last line of the script would read:
echo $1 $2 | awk '{printf("%.1f kg/m?\n", 703.06958*$2/$1^2)}'

On Tue, 8 May 2012 02:14:34 -0500 (CDT)
Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> See my one-liner below, with documentation.
> 
> Body Mass Index, or BMI, is weight/height?, but weight is in kilograms and 
> height is in meters, so the units are kg/m?.  We usually measure height in 
> feet and inches and weight in pounds, so I wrote this little script for 
> computing BMI from height in inches and weight in pounds.  I call the 
> script "bmi".  Supposedly, if your BMI exceeds 30, you are obese and if it 
> exceeds 25, you are overweight.  A lot of us sit around too much, so we 
> are prone to gain weight and to get type-2 diabetes.  Good diet and 
> exercise are critical for prevention.
> 
> I just thought you might like the little piece of awk code.  I'm too lazy 
> to write out the if/else statements to get it to tell you if you are 
> underweight, normal, overweight or obese, or to tell you how many pounds 
> you should lose.  I might add that someday.  (I'm about 9 lbs overweight.)
> 
> Inevitably someone will point out that it doesn't distinguish fat mass 
> from muscle mass, which is true.  If you are unusually muscular, or the 
> opposite, you'll want to take that into account.  It turns out to 
> correlate very well with harder-to-obtain measures of body fat.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> ---------------begin script on next line----------------
> #!/bin/bash
> 
> # Computes your Body Mass Index (BMI) from height
> # in inches and weight in pounds
> #
> # Syntax:
> #
> # bmi num1 num2
> # 
> # where num1 is height in inches and
> #       num2 is weight in pounds
> #
> # http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/
> #
> # Underweight = <18.5
> # Normal weight = 18.5?24.9
> # Overweight = 25?29.9
> # Obese = > 30
> 
> 
> echo $1 $2 | awk '{printf("%.1f kg/m?", 703.06958*$2/$1^2)}'
> --------------end script on previous line---------------


-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Tue May  8 18:21:32 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:21:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI?  Use my script.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20120508182132.724e10fa3520395d7a0ac0cb@jasonhsu.com>

By the way, I don't have a weighing scale.  Weighing myself every day would give me high blood pressure.  :)

Actress Sarah Michelle Gellar doesn't have a weighing scale either.  If she can get by without one, then so can I.  :)

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From ron at ron-l-j.com  Wed May  9 00:30:08 2012
From: ron at ron-l-j.com (ron at ron-l-j.com)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 23:30:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] BMI calc
In-Reply-To: <mailman.159.1336481259.1585.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.159.1336481259.1585.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <a9aca8261be5122aeccb03e8d257f5bf.squirrel@ron-l-j.com>

   5. What's your BMI?  Use my script. (Mike Miller)
>    6. Re: What's your BMI? Use my script. (Jake Vath)
>
>

> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 02:14:34 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI?  Use my script.
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> See my one-liner below, with documentation.
>
> Body Mass Index, or BMI, is weight/height?, but weight is in kilograms and
> height is in meters, so the units are kg/m?.  We usually measure height in
> feet and inches and weight in pounds, so I wrote this little script for
> computing BMI from height in inches and weight in pounds.  I call the
> script "bmi".  Supposedly, if your BMI exceeds 30, you are obese and if it
> exceeds 25, you are overweight.  A lot of us sit around too much, so we
> are prone to gain weight and to get type-2 diabetes.  Good diet and
> exercise are critical for prevention.
>
> I just thought you might like the little piece of awk code.  I'm too lazy
> to write out the if/else statements to get it to tell you if you are
> underweight, normal, overweight or obese, or to tell you how many pounds
> you should lose.  I might add that someday.  (I'm about 9 lbs overweight.)
>
> Inevitably someone will point out that it doesn't distinguish fat mass
> from muscle mass, which is true.  If you are unusually muscular, or the
> opposite, you'll want to take that into account.  It turns out to
> correlate very well with harder-to-obtain measures of body fat.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ---------------begin script on next line----------------
> #!/bin/bash
>
> # Computes your Body Mass Index (BMI) from height
> # in inches and weight in pounds
> #
> # Syntax:
> #
> # bmi num1 num2
> #
> # where num1 is height in inches and
> #       num2 is weight in pounds
> #
> # http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/
> #
> # Underweight = <18.5
> # Normal weight = 18.5?24.9
> # Overweight = 25?29.9
> # Obese = > 30
>
>
> echo $1 $2 | awk '{printf("%.1f kg/m?", 703.06958*$2/$1^2)}'
> --------------end script on previous line---------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 07:47:30 -0500
> From: Jake Vath <jake.vath at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] What's your BMI? Use my script.
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAMeWMmipmBQ8zU19uuV_aeu1GihSfm_s3sJbkgDMgCOxQL7www at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> I don't know why, but I find this idea to be unusually cool...
> A Bash script for computing my BMI? I never thought of using Bash to
> implement a solution like this, it's fun.
>
>  I'm too lazy to write out the if/else statements to get it to tell you if
>> you are underweight, normal, overweight or obese, or to tell you how
>> many
>> pounds you should lose.
>
> If I have time this week, I might do that. I'll send it back out to the
> list if I do.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -> Jake
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> See my one-liner below, with documentation.
>>
>> Body Mass Index, or BMI, is weight/height?, but weight is in kilograms
>> and
>> height is in meters, so the units are kg/m?.  We usually measure height
>> in
>> feet and inches and weight in pounds, so I wrote this little script for
>> computing BMI from height in inches and weight in pounds.  I call the
>> script "bmi".  Supposedly, if your BMI exceeds 30, you are obese and if
>> it
>> exceeds 25, you are overweight.  A lot of us sit around too much, so we
>> are
>> prone to gain weight and to get type-2 diabetes.  Good diet and exercise
>> are critical for prevention.
>>
>> I just thought you might like the little piece of awk code.  I'm too
>> lazy
>> to write out the if/else statements to get it to tell you if you are
>> underweight, normal, overweight or obese, or to tell you how many pounds
>> you should lose.  I might add that someday.  (I'm about 9 lbs
>> overweight.)
>>
>> Inevitably someone will point out that it doesn't distinguish fat mass
>> from muscle mass, which is true.  If you are unusually muscular, or the
>> opposite, you'll want to take that into account.  It turns out to
>> correlate
>> very well with harder-to-obtain measures of body fat.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> ---------------begin script on next line----------------
>> #!/bin/bash
>>
>> # Computes your Body Mass Index (BMI) from height
>> # in inches and weight in pounds
>> #
>> # Syntax:
>> #
>> # bmi num1 num2
>> # # where num1 is height in inches and
>> #       num2 is weight in pounds
>> #
>> # http://www.nhlbisupport.com/**bmi/ <http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/>
>> #
>> # Underweight = <18.5
>> # Normal weight = 18.5?24.9
>> # Overweight = 25?29.9
>> # Obese = > 30
>>
>>
>> echo $1 $2 | awk '{printf("%.1f kg/m?", 703.06958*$2/$1^2)}'
>> --------------end script on previous line---------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120508/740277dd/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 12
> ******************************************
>

my bash script for bmi

 #!/bin/bash
#Ron bash scripting noob.
sev=703
echo "Enter your height in inches then press enter"
read height
echo "enter your weight in pounds then press enter"
read weight
h2=$[$height * $height]
plh=`echo " scale=30; $weight / $h2 " | bc`
bmi=`echo "scale=30; $plh * $sev " | bc`
echo "If your Body mass is between 18.5 and 24.9 you are healthy."
echo "If your body mass id less then 18.5 your too skinny."
echo "If your body mass is more then 30 you are dangerously over weight."
echo " your body mass is $bmi"



I was wondering if awk and sed get rid of the need to use the bc for
floating point numbers ?

,Ron






From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed May  9 02:25:26 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 02:25:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] What's your BMI? Use my script.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205081203470.3428@veeta>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205080154560.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmipmBQ8zU19uuV_aeu1GihSfm_s3sJbkgDMgCOxQL7www@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205081203470.3428@veeta>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205090221130.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 8 May 2012, Gerry wrote:

> I'd get rid of the epensive bash call. :-)
>
> #! /usr/bin/awk -f
> BEGIN {printf("%.1f kg/m?\n", 703.06958*ARGV[2]/ARGV[1]^2)}


Thanks.  That will be much faster and easier on the system.  ;-)

Thanks also to you and Jason for pointing out that I forgot the newline. 
I always do that, but usually I catch it because I get some 
horrible-looking output.  I have a newline built into my prompt and I 
didn't notice that I was missing my empty line.

I didn't know I could write an awk script that way (awk shebang).  That's 
good to know.

Mike

From florin at iucha.net  Wed May  9 08:01:58 2012
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:01:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Euler training - Linux classes?
Message-ID: <20120509130158.GQ2363@styx.iucha.org>

Greetings,

A colleague of mine is interested in taking some instructor-led Linux
classes.  I happened to take a vendor class at Euler training in St.
Louis Park and I noticed on a rack the sylabi for several Linux
classes and they seemed pretty good.

Has anybody taken or given classes there?  Are they delivering good
information at an appropriate pace?  Any better places out there?  I'm
not familiar with the pricing for this trainings - are they good value
for money?

Thank you,
florin

-- 
Beware of software written by optimists!
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120509/9b226987/attachment-0001.pgp>

From florin at iucha.net  Wed May  9 08:24:34 2012
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:24:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: [Grads] Any grads willing to help a high school
	student? Fwd:	Help with Terminal/Linux
Message-ID: <20120509132434.GR2363@styx.iucha.org>

Vyom,

You will have more luck having your questions answered by posting to
the Twin Cities Linux User's Group mailing list (CC'd above).

However, in order to get the best answers in the shortest amount of
time, you need to be more precise in describing what problems you
encounter.  Read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
for a guide.

For instance, you wrote 
> When I boot the CD that I got with my book, it does not do anything to
> my computer.

That is not clear and nobody can help you with that.  You should try
to rephrase it as:

   I have performed the following steps:
      1. powered on the computer
      2. while the computer was POST-ing, I opened the CD tray and
         loaded the Ubuntu disc
      3. waited for the OS to boot
   I was expecting that:
      1. Ubuntu boots and I get a login screen
   I have observed that:
      1. Windows Vista loaded and I got a login screen

Best,
florin

----- Forwarded message from Pamela Vold <vold at cs.umn.edu> -----

> Subject: [Grads] Any grads willing to help a high school student? Fwd: Help
> 	with Terminal/Linux
> From: Pamela Vold <vold at cs.umn.edu>
> To: grads at cs.umn.edu
> Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 12:25:50 -0500
> 
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	Help with Terminal/Linux
> Date: 	Wed, 9 May 2012 00:28:21 +0800 (SGT)
> From: 	Vyom Joshi <joshivyomi at yahoo.co.in>
> Reply-To: 	Vyom Joshi <joshivyomi at yahoo.co.in>
> To: 	gustafso at cs.umn.edu <gustafso at cs.umn.edu>, head at cs.umn.edu  
> <head at cs.umn.edu>
> CC: 	csa at cs.umn.edu <csa at cs.umn.edu>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am Vyom Joshi (Junior) from Hibbing High School, Hibbing, MN. I am  
> doing an independent research on super computers and trying to make one.  
> I've been working on making a super-computer using Linux(Ubuntu 11.10)  
> Operating System. I have a CD with my super-computer book, that has some  
> codes written in it. I wanted help with couple of things and since you  
> are professionals at this field, I thought of e-mailing you my queries.
> When I boot the CD that I got with my book, it does not do anything to  
> my computer. So, I tried copying and pasting the codes in Terminal. It  
> asks me to run as the root, so I write down the password and start  
> writing codes as the root. However, whenever I try to make any changes,  
> error comes up and it says permission denied.
> So, Firstly do you know why the CD would not boot(even after I set the  
> preference of the CD-ROM as first)? And why does terminal deny access  
> when I codes?
> P.S- The book and the CD that I am referring to is called "The Linux  
> Enterprise Cluster" by Karl Kopper.
> Hopefully you can help me with my problem.
> Thank you for your time,
> Vyom Joshi
> Hibbing High School.

> _______________________________________________
> Grads mailing list
> Grads at cs.umn.edu
> https://wwws.cs.umn.edu/mm-cs/listinfo/grads


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Beware of software written by optimists!
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120509/9c560d87/attachment.pgp>

From gm5729 at gmail.com  Wed May  9 16:08:17 2012
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (gk)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 21:08:17 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1336582801.772.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1336582801.772.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <CAFxDM3wjXE6fu4h7P8mkBdr122gQM0d8VAG48pF11pvPWQEbXg@mail.gmail.com>

You are probably going to learn cluster-ing best from Red Hat Linux as
they at present are the "Industry/Enterprise" Standard. They are
considered by DoD to be the only "authorized" US Govt distrobution for
Federal computers because of auditing and accounting purposes. Some
may disagree. with this statement which is fine. Linux is about
choice. They have develved the most into clustering, virtualization
and stability for loads requr-ing massive scaling. Personally, I am
surprised you are not using Solaris or even OpenBSD/FreeBSD for a
server environment with those capabilities. OBSD is the most audited
and security concious for servers in the world.

gkey

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 5:00 PM,  <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ? ? ? ?http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. Fwd: [Grads] Any grads willing to help a high school ? ? ?student?
> ? ? ?Fwd: ? ? ?Help with Terminal/Linux (Florin Iucha)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:24:34 -0500
> From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
> To: Vyom Joshi <joshivyomi at yahoo.co.in>
> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: [Grads] Any grads willing to help a high
> ? ? ? ?school ?student? Fwd: ? Help with Terminal/Linux
> Message-ID: <20120509132434.GR2363 at styx.iucha.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Vyom,
>
> You will have more luck having your questions answered by posting to
> the Twin Cities Linux User's Group mailing list (CC'd above).
>
> However, in order to get the best answers in the shortest amount of
> time, you need to be more precise in describing what problems you
> encounter. ?Read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> for a guide.
>
> For instance, you wrote
>> When I boot the CD that I got with my book, it does not do anything to
>> my computer.
>
> That is not clear and nobody can help you with that. ?You should try
> to rephrase it as:
>
> ? I have performed the following steps:
> ? ? ?1. powered on the computer
> ? ? ?2. while the computer was POST-ing, I opened the CD tray and
> ? ? ? ? loaded the Ubuntu disc
> ? ? ?3. waited for the OS to boot
> ? I was expecting that:
> ? ? ?1. Ubuntu boots and I get a login screen
> ? I have observed that:
> ? ? ?1. Windows Vista loaded and I got a login screen
>
> Best,
> florin
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Pamela Vold <vold at cs.umn.edu> -----
>
>> Subject: [Grads] Any grads willing to help a high school student? Fwd: Help
>> ? ? ? with Terminal/Linux
>> From: Pamela Vold <vold at cs.umn.edu>
>> To: grads at cs.umn.edu
>> Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 12:25:50 -0500
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: ? ? ?Help with Terminal/Linux
>> Date: ? ? ? ? Wed, 9 May 2012 00:28:21 +0800 (SGT)
>> From: ? ? ? ? Vyom Joshi <joshivyomi at yahoo.co.in>
>> Reply-To: ? ? Vyom Joshi <joshivyomi at yahoo.co.in>
>> To: ? gustafso at cs.umn.edu <gustafso at cs.umn.edu>, head at cs.umn.edu
>> <head at cs.umn.edu>
>> CC: ? csa at cs.umn.edu <csa at cs.umn.edu>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am Vyom Joshi (Junior) from Hibbing High School, Hibbing, MN. I am
>> doing an independent research on super computers and trying to make one.
>> I've been working on making a super-computer using Linux(Ubuntu 11.10)
>> Operating System. I have a CD with my super-computer book, that has some
>> codes written in it. I wanted help with couple of things and since you
>> are professionals at this field, I thought of e-mailing you my queries.
>> When I boot the CD that I got with my book, it does not do anything to
>> my computer. So, I tried copying and pasting the codes in Terminal. It
>> asks me to run as the root, so I write down the password and start
>> writing codes as the root. However, whenever I try to make any changes,
>> error comes up and it says permission denied.
>> So, Firstly do you know why the CD would not boot(even after I set the
>> preference of the CD-ROM as first)? And why does terminal deny access
>> when I codes?
>> P.S- The book and the CD that I am referring to is called "The Linux
>> Enterprise Cluster" by Karl Kopper.
>> Hopefully you can help me with my problem.
>> Thank you for your time,
>> Vyom Joshi
>> Hibbing High School.
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Grads mailing list
>> Grads at cs.umn.edu
>> https://wwws.cs.umn.edu/mm-cs/listinfo/grads
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
> Beware of software written by optimists!
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: not available
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 189 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120509/9c560d87/attachment-0001.pgp>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 15
> ******************************************



-- 
---
Gregory Key
https://gm5729.wordpress.com/
Please conserve paper and print this email out ONLY if necessary.

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May 10 00:30:12 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 00:30:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Supposedly Ubuntu will be shipping on 5% of new machines, which is about 
18 million:

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/05/07/2340247/ubuntu-will-soon-ship-on-5-of-new-pcs


There's this enthusiastic review for Ubuntu 12.04:

http://www.aboutlinux.info/2012/04/ubuntu-review.html


For October:  Quantal Quetzal...

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/04/24/2230248/code-name-theming-update-announced-for-ubuntu-1210

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu May 10 00:41:16 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 00:41:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> Supposedly Ubuntu will be shipping on 5% of new machines, which is about 18 
> million:

That's firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" category. We've heard 
such things before...


-Yaron

--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May 10 00:41:21 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 00:41:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100031500.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> There's this enthusiastic review for Ubuntu 12.04:
>
> http://www.aboutlinux.info/2012/04/ubuntu-review.html


I can add a couple of things I've found from installing 12.04 on my Asus 
Laptop.  The last version I had, probably 11.10 or 11.04, did not do the 
following correctly but they are fixed in a fresh 12.04 install:

(1) Hibernate.  Just did it, it works, it used to die and require reboot. 
Suspend always worked and still does.

(2) Scrolling using the right side of the touch pad.  Did not work.  Now 
it works.  I thought that had been disabled by Asus.  I guess not.

(3) I could not get Gnome Terminal working in the Launcher Menu.  We 
deleted it, added it, it appeared but it did not work.  It seemed 
impossible to fix.  Now it works.


Anyway, all three of these things are pretty important to convenience of 
use of my laptop and will add a lot to the everyday pleasure of the 
experience.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May 10 02:00:59 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 02:00:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100158580.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Yaron wrote:

> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> Supposedly Ubuntu will be shipping on 5% of new machines, which is 
>> about 18 million:
>
> That's firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" category. We've 
> heard such things before...


That's fair, but did you believe this part of the article?:

"Eight to ten million units shipped last year world-wide.

"Last year Ubuntu shipped on 7.5 billion dollars (presumably USD) worth of 
hardware."


Maybe doubling in a year is overly optimistic, but those are still good 
numbers for last year.  Only 2.5%, I guess, but it's a pretty good start.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May 10 02:28:44 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 02:28:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100031500.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100031500.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100203290.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> (1) Hibernate.  Just did it, it works, it used to die and require 
> reboot. Suspend always worked and still does.

There was an additional annoyance:  12.04 doesn't have hibernate available 
in menus by default.  To run the hibernate process I had to launch 
pm-hibernate from the command line like so:

sudo pm-hibernate

I did that, it worked and everything came back on restart, but I didn't 
have to enter a password.

I want the usual shutdown/suspend menus to include "hibernate" as an 
option, so I googled a bit and found this:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/94754/how-to-enable-hibernation-in-12-04

The instruction there is to place this text...

[Re-enable hibernate by default]
Identity=unix-user:*
Action=org.freedesktop.upower.hibernate
ResultActive=yes

...into this file:

/etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/com.ubuntu.enable-hibernate.pkla


I did that, restarted, the menus then had "hibernate" as an option (both 
the menu in the upper right of the Unity desktop and the one that appers 
when I press the power button).

I tested the hibernate menu option.  It worked.  When Ubuntu came back it 
made me log in to get back to my open windows, which is the correct 
behavior, I would say, but I guess pm-hibernate doesn't do that (I tried 
it again and the behavior was the same).

Hibernate is a killer feature with this laptop because it his great 
battery life.  It can suspend for days, but it can hibernate a lot longer. 
It comes back pretty quickly from hibernation, so I'm setting it to 
hibernate when I close the lid:

(1) click the battery icon on the upper bar
(2) choose power settings
(3) set them how you want them

For me, I chose "Hibernate" both for "When power is critically low" and 
"When the lid is closed."  I also tested it by closing the lid, it 
hibernated and came back up (with password screen).

So far, so good.

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu May 10 02:51:47 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 02:51:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100158580.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100158580.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100250400.11934@Dragon>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> That's fair, but did you believe this part of the article?:
>
> "Eight to ten million units shipped last year world-wide.

It's not so much that I don't belive it, but... well, have YOU seen a 
computer that had shipped with Ubuntu pre-installed?

A few years ago with the whole netbook thing going on, a lot of those 
shipped with Linux. Then that just died off. Then the whole netbook thing 
died off. So I dunno.


-Yaron

--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May 10 03:39:50 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 03:39:50 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100250400.11934@Dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100158580.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100250400.11934@Dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100330410.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Yaron wrote:

> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> That's fair, but did you believe this part of the article?:
>> 
>> "Eight to ten million units shipped last year world-wide.
>
> It's not so much that I don't belive it, but... well, have YOU seen a 
> computer that had shipped with Ubuntu pre-installed?

No, but that's world-wide and I think the EU countries and India are both 
much more accepting of Linux than is the corporate-dominated USA.


> A few years ago with the whole netbook thing going on, a lot of those 
> shipped with Linux. Then that just died off. Then the whole netbook 
> thing died off. So I dunno.

Again, it might be different in Europe and Asia.

I think the Ubuntu 12.04 on my Asus netbook would be pretty hard to beat. 
If people just knew how to use it, they would love it.

What is the attraction of the iPad, anyway?  I see why it is good for 
reading -- very good, probably (I haven't used one) -- but for most of the 
stuff I do, which involves a *lot* of typing, it is not appealing to me. 
The netbook is just about right -- small/light enough, fits in front of me 
on the plane, and has great battery life (now with hibernation!).  It's 
great for typing and for watching movies -- presumably better than iPad 
which doesn't hold itself up for viewing or have a keyboard for typing. 
I still can't believe the killer netbook I got for my daughter at Costco 
for $250 back in November -- way cheaper than iPad.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May 10 03:47:04 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 03:47:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] hibernation in Ubuntu 12.04 [SOLVED]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100345450.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Just thought I should resend with the right subject line...


On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> (1) Hibernate.  Just did it, it works, it used to die and require 
> reboot. Suspend always worked and still does.

There was an additional annoyance:  12.04 doesn't have hibernate available 
in menus by default.  To run the hibernate process I had to launch 
pm-hibernate from the command line like so:

sudo pm-hibernate

I did that, it worked and everything came back on restart, but I didn't 
have to enter a password.

I want the usual shutdown/suspend menus to include "hibernate" as an 
option, so I googled a bit and found this:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/94754/how-to-enable-hibernation-in-12-04

The instruction there is to place this text...

[Re-enable hibernate by default]
Identity=unix-user:*
Action=org.freedesktop.upower.hibernate
ResultActive=yes

...into this file:

/etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/com.ubuntu.enable-hibernate.pkla


I did that, restarted, the menus then had "hibernate" as an option (both 
the menu in the upper right of the Unity desktop and the one that appers 
when I press the power button).

I tested the hibernate menu option.  It worked.  When Ubuntu came back it 
made me log in to get back to my open windows, which is the correct 
behavior, I would say, but I guess pm-hibernate doesn't do that (I tried 
it again and the behavior was the same).

Hibernate is a killer feature with this laptop because it his great 
battery life.  It can suspend for days, but it can hibernate a lot longer. 
It comes back pretty quickly from hibernation, so I'm setting it to 
hibernate when I close the lid:

(1) click the battery icon on the upper bar
(2) choose power settings
(3) set them how you want them

For me, I chose "Hibernate" both for "When power is critically low" and 
"When the lid is closed."  I also tested it by closing the lid, it 
hibernated and came back up (with password screen).

So far, so good.

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu May 10 03:52:48 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 03:52:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100330410.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100158580.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100250400.11934@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100330410.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100343120.2422@Dragon>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> What is the attraction of the iPad, anyway?

Whoa, how did we get to THAT? (:

Disclaimer: I don't have an iPad. I do, however, have an HP Touchpad and 
an Amazon Kindle, both of which are running the latest version of Android, 
both of which - put together - cost less than half of what an iPad does. 
And I woudln't have got either of them without the huge discounts I 
managed to get.

I think tablets are good for... less-interactive computing than a, you 
know, real computer. Yeah, you touchthem and move stuff around, but I 
wouldn't want to type anything longer than a really short email on them. 
Although considering how good voice recognition is getting on Android it 
may well be an option soonish.

However, I can't use a netbook for anything serious, either. Even if it's 
"just" typing. First of all, the keyboard is just too small. It's like a 
toy keyboard. Second, the screen is too small. It's like a toy screen. 
Netbooks are like toy computers. So are tablets, really.

Now I'm not saying nobody should have a netbook, and I'm CERTAINLY not 
saying people shouldn't put Ubuntu or whatever Linux they want on any 
device they have! I've just heard the whole This Is The Year Of Linux On 
The Desktop thing soooo many times...



-Yaron

--

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu May 10 14:52:38 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 14:52:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] hibernation in Ubuntu 12.04 [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100345450.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100345450.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1336679558.17381.134.camel@sysadmin3a>

I have never had a problem with Ubuntu and hibernating my laptop (not a
netbook though)
First version of Ubuntu on my laptop was probably 9.04 or maybe 9.10

I think it is currently running 10.10 or maybe 11.04... as I am dreading
the catastrophic desktop change. 

On Thu, 2012-05-10 at 03:47 -0500, Mike Miller wrote:

> Just thought I should resend with the right subject line...
> 
> 
> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
> > (1) Hibernate.  Just did it, it works, it used to die and require 
> > reboot. Suspend always worked and still does.
> 
> There was an additional annoyance:  12.04 doesn't have hibernate available 
> in menus by default.  To run the hibernate process I had to launch 
> pm-hibernate from the command line like so:
> 
> sudo pm-hibernate
> 
> I did that, it worked and everything came back on restart, but I didn't 
> have to enter a password.
> 
> I want the usual shutdown/suspend menus to include "hibernate" as an 
> option, so I googled a bit and found this:
> 
> http://askubuntu.com/questions/94754/how-to-enable-hibernation-in-12-04
> 
> The instruction there is to place this text...
> 
> [Re-enable hibernate by default]
> Identity=unix-user:*
> Action=org.freedesktop.upower.hibernate
> ResultActive=yes
> 
> ...into this file:
> 
> /etc/polkit-1/localauthority/50-local.d/com.ubuntu.enable-hibernate.pkla
> 
> 
> I did that, restarted, the menus then had "hibernate" as an option (both 
> the menu in the upper right of the Unity desktop and the one that appers 
> when I press the power button).
> 
> I tested the hibernate menu option.  It worked.  When Ubuntu came back it 
> made me log in to get back to my open windows, which is the correct 
> behavior, I would say, but I guess pm-hibernate doesn't do that (I tried 
> it again and the behavior was the same).
> 
> Hibernate is a killer feature with this laptop because it his great 
> battery life.  It can suspend for days, but it can hibernate a lot longer. 
> It comes back pretty quickly from hibernation, so I'm setting it to 
> hibernate when I close the lid:
> 
> (1) click the battery icon on the upper bar
> (2) choose power settings
> (3) set them how you want them
> 
> For me, I chose "Hibernate" both for "When power is critically low" and 
> "When the lid is closed."  I also tested it by closing the lid, it 
> hibernated and came back up (with password screen).
> 
> So far, so good.
> 
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120510/464cac1f/attachment.html>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Thu May 10 15:00:46 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:00:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu desktop upheaval
Message-ID: <1336680046.17381.143.camel@sysadmin3a>

I am pretty sure I am going to give kubuntu a serious try on my next
upgrade after gnome2 as 10.10 is now out of support... any plasma/kde
haters or lovers out there care to chime in?
I am not looking for a puny desktop environment either, I have oodles of
ram, powerful nvidia graphics cards (3 monitors), and super fast SSD so
I don't need to disable features to eek out a slightly faster
experience... I will turn off features only if they bother me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_Workspaces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubuntu




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120510/161eb040/attachment.html>

From ron at ron-l-j.com  Thu May 10 15:58:05 2012
From: ron at ron-l-j.com (ron at ron-l-j.com)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 14:58:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] What is a tablet good for (iPad/android)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1336669202.22260.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1336669202.22260.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <c838519a569d082bbd873926d1aa30b6.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 03:39:50 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100330410.22297 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Yaron wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>>
>>> That's fair, but did you believe this part of the article?:
>>>
>>> "Eight to ten million units shipped last year world-wide.
>>
>> It's not so much that I don't belive it, but... well, have YOU seen a
>> computer that had shipped with Ubuntu pre-installed?
>
> No, but that's world-wide and I think the EU countries and India are both
> much more accepting of Linux than is the corporate-dominated USA.
>
>
>> A few years ago with the whole netbook thing going on, a lot of those
>> shipped with Linux. Then that just died off. Then the whole netbook
>> thing died off. So I dunno.
>
> Again, it might be different in Europe and Asia.
>
> I think the Ubuntu 12.04 on my Asus netbook would be pretty hard to beat.
> If people just knew how to use it, they would love it.
>
> What is the attraction of the iPad, anyway?  I see why it is good for
> reading -- very good, probably (I haven't used one) -- but for most of the
> stuff I do, which involves a *lot* of typing, it is not appealing to me.
> The netbook is just about right -- small/light enough, fits in front of me
> on the plane, and has great battery life (now with hibernation!).  It's
> great for typing and for watching movies -- presumably better than iPad
> which doesn't hold itself up for viewing or have a keyboard for typing.
> I still can't believe the killer netbook I got for my daughter at Costco
> for $250 back in November -- way cheaper than iPad.
>
> Mike

> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 03:52:48 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com>
> To: TCLUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100343120.2422 at Dragon>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> What is the attraction of the iPad, anyway?
>
> Whoa, how did we get to THAT? (:
>
> Disclaimer: I don't have an iPad. I do, however, have an HP Touchpad and
> an Amazon Kindle, both of which are running the latest version of Android,
> both of which - put together - cost less than half of what an iPad does.
> And I woudln't have got either of them without the huge discounts I
> managed to get.
>
> I think tablets are good for... less-interactive computing than a, you
> know, real computer. Yeah, you touchthem and move stuff around, but I
> wouldn't want to type anything longer than a really short email on them.
> Although considering how good voice recognition is getting on Android it
> may well be an option soonish.
>
> However, I can't use a netbook for anything serious, either. Even if it's
> "just" typing. First of all, the keyboard is just too small. It's like a
> toy keyboard. Second, the screen is too small. It's like a toy screen.
> Netbooks are like toy computers. So are tablets, really.
>
> Now I'm not saying nobody should have a netbook, and I'm CERTAINLY not
> saying people shouldn't put Ubuntu or whatever Linux they want on any
> device they have! I've just heard the whole This Is The Year Of Linux On
> The Desktop thing soooo many times...
>
>
>
> -Yaron
>

Less interactive is the Key in the measure for tablets, either iPad or
android.
I can see it as a very locked down computer for retail POS systems.
Think "Ok push the cheeseburger button, then ask if they want fries with
that."
If your like me you really do not want to develop in Java(syntax too
verbose) and would rather use QT and python, or QT and C++.
You would like to see a QT implementation of the GNU/Linux tablet interface.
Is ubuntu releasing a tablet ? I seem to have heard something..........

,Ron "First to join the singularity."



From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu May 10 16:28:02 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:28:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] What is a tablet good for (iPad/android)
In-Reply-To: <c838519a569d082bbd873926d1aa30b6.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>
References: <mailman.1.1336669202.22260.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<c838519a569d082bbd873926d1aa30b6.squirrel@www.ron-l-j.com>
Message-ID: <A2A79C61-B69A-49EB-AE9C-27DB67BC46F3@gmail.com>

If anyone wants an Android Tablet, make me an offer on my Viewsonic GTablet.

 It is nice & has good third party firmware already loaded. There is a port of ICS (aka Android 4) to it but I haven't gotten around to it. 

I have a really nice dock that cost me $50 extra which makes a good drop-in charging stand and gives Ethernet, HDMI, et al ports for it. 

Since I got an iPad, it has just been collecting dust. It is destined for Craigslist or eBay, but I'd give a price break against fair market value to another TCLUG person. 

Thomas

ps. Hope no one minds the ad too much ;-)

 

On May 10, 2012, at 3:58 PM, ron at ron-l-j.com wrote:

> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 03:39:50 -0500 (CDT)
>> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
>> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
>> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100330410.22297 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>> 
>> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Yaron wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>>> 
>>>> That's fair, but did you believe this part of the article?:
>>>> 
>>>> "Eight to ten million units shipped last year world-wide.
>>> 
>>> It's not so much that I don't belive it, but... well, have YOU seen a
>>> computer that had shipped with Ubuntu pre-installed?
>> 
>> No, but that's world-wide and I think the EU countries and India are both
>> much more accepting of Linux than is the corporate-dominated USA.
>> 
>> 
>>> A few years ago with the whole netbook thing going on, a lot of those
>>> shipped with Linux. Then that just died off. Then the whole netbook
>>> thing died off. So I dunno.
>> 
>> Again, it might be different in Europe and Asia.
>> 
>> I think the Ubuntu 12.04 on my Asus netbook would be pretty hard to beat.
>> If people just knew how to use it, they would love it.
>> 
>> What is the attraction of the iPad, anyway?  I see why it is good for
>> reading -- very good, probably (I haven't used one) -- but for most of the
>> stuff I do, which involves a *lot* of typing, it is not appealing to me.
>> The netbook is just about right -- small/light enough, fits in front of me
>> on the plane, and has great battery life (now with hibernation!).  It's
>> great for typing and for watching movies -- presumably better than iPad
>> which doesn't hold itself up for viewing or have a keyboard for typing.
>> I still can't believe the killer netbook I got for my daughter at Costco
>> for $250 back in November -- way cheaper than iPad.
>> 
>> Mike
> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 03:52:48 -0500 (CDT)
>> From: Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com>
>> To: TCLUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
>> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100343120.2422 at Dragon>
>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>> 
>> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> What is the attraction of the iPad, anyway?
>> 
>> Whoa, how did we get to THAT? (:
>> 
>> Disclaimer: I don't have an iPad. I do, however, have an HP Touchpad and
>> an Amazon Kindle, both of which are running the latest version of Android,
>> both of which - put together - cost less than half of what an iPad does.
>> And I woudln't have got either of them without the huge discounts I
>> managed to get.
>> 
>> I think tablets are good for... less-interactive computing than a, you
>> know, real computer. Yeah, you touchthem and move stuff around, but I
>> wouldn't want to type anything longer than a really short email on them.
>> Although considering how good voice recognition is getting on Android it
>> may well be an option soonish.
>> 
>> However, I can't use a netbook for anything serious, either. Even if it's
>> "just" typing. First of all, the keyboard is just too small. It's like a
>> toy keyboard. Second, the screen is too small. It's like a toy screen.
>> Netbooks are like toy computers. So are tablets, really.
>> 
>> Now I'm not saying nobody should have a netbook, and I'm CERTAINLY not
>> saying people shouldn't put Ubuntu or whatever Linux they want on any
>> device they have! I've just heard the whole This Is The Year Of Linux On
>> The Desktop thing soooo many times...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Yaron
>> 
> 
> Less interactive is the Key in the measure for tablets, either iPad or
> android.
> I can see it as a very locked down computer for retail POS systems.
> Think "Ok push the cheeseburger button, then ask if they want fries with
> that."
> If your like me you really do not want to develop in Java(syntax too
> verbose) and would rather use QT and python, or QT and C++.
> You would like to see a QT implementation of the GNU/Linux tablet interface.
> Is ubuntu releasing a tablet ? I seem to have heard something..........
> 
> ,Ron "First to join the singularity."
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu May 10 22:12:03 2012
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 22:12:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
Message-ID: <CABWFOjuU4LpnYQx4dh2_MqYs7_aNmOh9eLemjVmkzjhA9Q0q7w@mail.gmail.com>

 Yaron:

> I think tablets are good for... less-interactive computing than a, you
> know, real computer. Yeah, you touchthem and move stuff around, but I
> wouldn't want to type anything longer than a really short email on them.
> Although considering how good voice recognition is getting on Android it
> may well be an option soonish.

I'm not an iPad guy either.  A friend has one, but other than being
portable, I don't get it.

The recent thread about partitions was helpful.   Someone mentioned
setting up a partition for /var/www -- that sounded like it would be a
good idea for my situation.  Next time I set up a server, I'll probably
have some questions about that.


-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120510/06aa22ed/attachment-0001.html>

From gm5729 at gmail.com  Thu May 10 22:20:44 2012
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (gk)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 03:20:44 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list]  Ubuntu desktop upheaval
Message-ID: <CAFxDM3ysocAbEabPqAh9VCPStJNwE=q6OfAwKgbRY4_Tk64bNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Most hibernation/suspend problems short of power control, acpi, apci,
upower, udisks, console/polkit are because of not enough swap .. ie
your swap MUST be larger than physical RAM to save the whole running
snapshot.

Anyway,

Gnome3 supports dual head setups out of the box. As does XMonad. I
prefer the latter but I also use the former. As far a KDE 4. It has
been a failure in my eyes for the Plasmas and their constant crashing.
That could be due to issues with Xorg also. What I do know is that the
KDE4 apps NEVER crash on other DE/WM's but constantly do in the Plasma
environment. I have had this happen with both, Intel, AMD/ATI and NV.
Among many different types of motherboards and brands of computers. So
... take it for what its worth. I'll give you some iodized salt just
to use if necessary. ;)


> ? 2. Ubuntu desktop upheaval (Justin Krejci)
> ? 3. Re: What is a tablet good for (iPad/android) (ron at ron-l-j.com)
> ? 4. Re: What is a tablet good for (iPad/android) (Thomas Lunde)
> ? 5. Re: Ubuntu in the news (Brian Wood)
>
>
-- 
---
Gregory Key
https://gm5729.wordpress.com/
Please conserve paper and print this email out ONLY if necessary.

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu May 10 23:51:03 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 23:51:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Debian Administrator's Handbook
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE9pNEvbufTiTPOj==3RX28DCeLuuhRBetdbQhYE3G+itg@mail.gmail.com>

Saw this on slashdot today.  A quick glance through the table of contents
revealed some topics I'm looking forward to diving into a bit more.
 Thought there might be some others interested...

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/05/10/1918233/english-translation-of-debian-administrators-handbook-available

And direct link to the book:

http://static.debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120510/0bf1ce57/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat May 12 11:22:05 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 11:22:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100343120.2422@Dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100158580.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100250400.11934@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100330410.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100343120.2422@Dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205121058460.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Yaron wrote:

> On Thu, 10 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> What is the attraction of the iPad, anyway?
>
> Whoa, how did we get to THAT? (:

I brought up iPad because you said that "the whole netbook thing died off" 
and I thought that was partly due to the popularity of the iPad.


> Disclaimer: I don't have an iPad. I do, however, have an HP Touchpad and 
> an Amazon Kindle, both of which are running the latest version of 
> Android, both of which - put together - cost less than half of what an 
> iPad does. And I woudln't have got either of them without the huge 
> discounts I managed to get.

You got an amazing deal.  When you run Android on a Kindle, does it no 
longer work with Amazon?


> I think tablets are good for... less-interactive computing than a, you 
> know, real computer. Yeah, you touchthem and move stuff around, but I 
> wouldn't want to type anything longer than a really short email on them. 
> Although considering how good voice recognition is getting on Android it 
> may well be an option soonish.

That's why I don't have one, yet -- that and the money, and also inertia. 
I guess a netbook is a real computer.  It has a lot more memory, disk and 
CPU speed than the $15,000 server I bought at work 14 years ago.  My 
daughter's netbook is even more impressive and it cost only $250 last 
November.


> However, I can't use a netbook for anything serious, either. Even if 
> it's "just" typing. First of all, the keyboard is just too small. It's 
> like a toy keyboard. Second, the screen is too small. It's like a toy 
> screen. Netbooks are like toy computers. So are tablets, really.

I don't really have that problem with the keyboard.  It is a little 
smaller, but I would say that my hands quickly adapt and it doesn't really 
bother me.  I know what you mean, though, and the screen is annoyingly 
small, but I get by with it when I need to.


> Now I'm not saying nobody should have a netbook, and I'm CERTAINLY not 
> saying people shouldn't put Ubuntu or whatever Linux they want on any 
> device they have! I've just heard the whole This Is The Year Of Linux On 
> The Desktop thing soooo many times...

Sure, but going from 2.5% to 5% on new hardware, worldwide, isn't exact 
total domination.  I also would guess (based partly on experience in 
Ecuador) that even if the machine ships with Ubuntu to an Asian country, 
when it gets to the user, he'll put a bootleg Windows on it and load up a 
bunch of bootleg Windows software.  In Ecuador (which isn't Asia, of 
course, but I think the attitude about IP is similar), there are software 
stores where you can go buy a cracked version of any Windows program for 
about a dollar.  That would be cheaper for them than to download the 
software (even if it were a free download) because most people don't have 
internet access and would have to go to an internet cafe to get online. 
Linux is pretty dependent on the internet for easy use.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat May 12 11:30:26 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 11:30:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] hibernation in Ubuntu 12.04 [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <1336679558.17381.134.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100345450.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1336679558.17381.134.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205121122410.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 10 May 2012, Justin Krejci wrote:

> I think it is currently running 10.10 or maybe 11.04... as I am dreading 
> the catastrophic desktop change.


I was letting it bug me, too, but I've been trying to embrace it.  One 
thing I find is that the way I work is not very dependent on the way the 
desktop works.  I get terminal up, and then I'm good to go for about 95% 
of what I do.  The launcher is actually pretty nice, and so is its search 
function (whatever they call that).  I don't have much to complain about.

There aren't many programs that I wouldn't just call from the command 
line, but there are a few and it's nice to have them in the launcher.

What is missing for you in Unity?

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat May 12 14:10:21 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 14:10:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu desktop upheaval
In-Reply-To: <CAFxDM3ysocAbEabPqAh9VCPStJNwE=q6OfAwKgbRY4_Tk64bNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDM3ysocAbEabPqAh9VCPStJNwE=q6OfAwKgbRY4_Tk64bNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205121407520.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Fri, 11 May 2012, gk wrote:

> Most hibernation/suspend problems short of power control, acpi, apci, 
> upower, udisks, console/polkit are because of not enough swap .. ie your 
> swap MUST be larger than physical RAM to save the whole running 
> snapshot.

At this point I can't go back to see what my setup looked like previously, 
but I don't think that was my problem.  It is conceivable, though.


> Gnome3 supports dual head setups out of the box. As does XMonad.

What about Unity?  I have two monitors to attach to my new machine but 
haven't gotten around to it.  If I install Ubuntu 12.04 with Unity, will I 
have trouble setting up the two monitors?

Mike

From gm5729 at gmail.com  Sun May 13 15:08:30 2012
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (gk)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 20:08:30 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu desktop upheaval
Message-ID: <CAFxDM3yQZKo34yAcZsWvKYN+AfkBkwtpRbqVCqtcf-k9zhMpNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Linux can do anything you want it to do. I would recommend the Ubuntu
forums and their wikis. They are highly active. NixiePixel with OS:ALT
might have a video on it with Youtube. I'm more of a mimimalist though
I like G3, and some of the KDE4 apps. Honestly I don't see why not
because the DE/WM don't totally control display. That is Xorgs job.
Since you are on a recent build that is a pretty common feature now.

Let us know how you make out.

gk



On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 5:00 PM,  <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ? ? ? ?http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. Re: Ubuntu desktop upheaval (Mike Miller)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 14:10:21 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Ubuntu desktop upheaval
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205121407520.22297 at taxa.psych.umn.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Fri, 11 May 2012, gk wrote:
>
>> Most hibernation/suspend problems short of power control, acpi, apci,
>> upower, udisks, console/polkit are because of not enough swap .. ie your
>> swap MUST be larger than physical RAM to save the whole running
>> snapshot.
>
> At this point I can't go back to see what my setup looked like previously,
> but I don't think that was my problem. ?It is conceivable, though.
>
>
>> Gnome3 supports dual head setups out of the box. As does XMonad.
>
> What about Unity? ?I have two monitors to attach to my new machine but
> haven't gotten around to it. ?If I install Ubuntu 12.04 with Unity, will I
> have trouble setting up the two monitors?
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 21
> ******************************************



-- 
---
Gregory Key
https://gm5729.wordpress.com/
Please conserve paper and print this email out ONLY if necessary.

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon May 14 03:20:01 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 03:20:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu in the news
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205121058460.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205092359200.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100040490.10854@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100158580.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100250400.11934@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205100330410.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205100343120.2422@Dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205121058460.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205140316330.7375@Dragon>

On Sat, 12 May 2012, Mike Miller wrote:

> You got an amazing deal.  When you run Android on a Kindle, does it no longer 
> work with Amazon?

Depends on what you mean by "work". You can no longer get all the free 
Amazon Prime stuff, but that's basically free book "rentals" (which I 
wasn't super interested in, as I don't want to read books on a Kindle 
Fire) and free movies/TV shows, which (again) I don't want to do on the 
Kindle Fire, and which I can do on my PS3.

You still have a Kindle app, the Amazon app store apps, etc. Just like any 
other Android device.

I did make a backup before I flashed an Android ROM, too, so I could 
always go back to the Kindle software.

> That's why I don't have one, yet -- that and the money, and also inertia. I 
> guess a netbook is a real computer.  It has a lot more memory, disk and CPU 
> speed than the $15,000 server I bought at work 14 years ago.

Yeah but so does an iPad (;


-Yaron

--

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Mon May 14 21:19:10 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:19:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Debian Administrator's Handbook
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE9pNEvbufTiTPOj==3RX28DCeLuuhRBetdbQhYE3G+itg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOsjE9pNEvbufTiTPOj==3RX28DCeLuuhRBetdbQhYE3G+itg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=TLCiArAZombPvMT_K1DO4YL=sYG9F4K7Vv+M-JbnwRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Saw this on slashdot today. ?A quick glance through the table of contents revealed some topics I'm looking forward to diving into a bit more. ?Thought there might be some others interested...
>
> http://static.debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf
>

Thanks for sharing!  I'm especially liking Chapter 15.  The author put
together a concise packaging and apt repo guide, something I've been
looking for for a few years.  The information was quite scattered and
sometimes hard to follow.

Brian

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Tue May 15 00:13:12 2012
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 00:13:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Simpler than BMI
Message-ID: <CABWFOjt8Azr6s2PTHJ9_7EWVt0fN5d4Rkpu60BJOYqz0pOvh+Q@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9260091/Forget-BMI-just-measure-your-waist-and-height-say-scientists.html

Shalom,
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120515/13963b78/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue May 15 01:02:47 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 01:02:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Simpler than BMI
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjt8Azr6s2PTHJ9_7EWVt0fN5d4Rkpu60BJOYqz0pOvh+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjt8Azr6s2PTHJ9_7EWVt0fN5d4Rkpu60BJOYqz0pOvh+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205150053570.22297@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 15 May 2012, Brian Wood wrote:

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9260091/Forget-BMI-just-measure-your-waist-and-height-say-scientists.html


Thanks, Brian!  I did a little searching around for info about 
waist-to-height ratio (WHR) and how it compares with body mass index (BMI) 
as a predictor of various disease outcomes and mortality for different age 
groups, etc.  It looks WHR does not work better for children.  But it may 
be better for predicting cardiovascular disease in adults.  The 
correlation of WHR with BMI is about .9, though, so they aren't very 
different.

The article at the URL above says that it is tricky to compute BMI, but 
that isn't true if you use my script!  ;-)  Really, BMI is easy if you 
know your height and weight and have some web site or script that can 
compute it for you.  A more important consideration is how easy it is to 
measure weight versus measuring waist circumference.  Weight is very easy 
to do and we have scales for that.  The waist seems a little tricky to me 
because the circumference will depend on exactly where you put the tape 
measure and weather you suck in your gut, push it out, etc.  Weight is a 
lot harder to fool.

Anyway, it's a good idea to use WHR if you have good data to compare 
against.  That's another advantage of BMI -- it's in all the drivers 
license records in every state, and every research study has it.  So we 
know a lot more about BMI than we know about WHR.

Mike

From bbaines at live.ca  Thu May 17 15:23:02 2012
From: bbaines at live.ca (Barry Baines)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 20:23:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale - SnapGear Equipment
References: <2010040423451177a2ef8cfe@mail.smumn.edu>
Message-ID: <loom.20120517T222001-412@post.gmane.org>

 
I would like to offer $ 150 for the SG300


From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu May 17 17:56:19 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 17:56:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] require password with key
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>

sshd can be happy with either a key or a password.  and, ssh keys can
be generated to require a passphrase.

but can sshd know if the key required a passphrase?  if not, i want
sshd to require a password in addition to a key.  anyone done this?
or seen how?

From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu May 17 19:30:00 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 19:30:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] require password with key
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08r-UXF2G4hSfhi38Dfxd0Unn=YKWc0zE1bsvMUWcpK4Ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 5:56 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>
> but can sshd know if the key required a passphrase?

No, it cannot.

> ?if not, i want
> sshd to require a password in addition to a key. ?anyone done this?
> or seen how?

What you want is some sort of two-factor authentication. There are
several libraries that enable this. Some make use of a list of
single-use passphrases that are entered in conjunction with your
username and password, and some use a RSA SecurID-esque token that
generates time-based codes that serve as the second factor.

Recently, I've enabled two-factor auth on all of my various personal
and work Google Apps accounts. They have a "Google Authenticator" app
for smartphones that, once seeded with the unique hash for your
account, generate time-based codes that you use to authenticate. It
works very well.

In addition to enabling two-factor auth for their own resources,
Google also open-sourced a PAM module that allows server
administrators to implement two-factor auth as well, using their
smartphone app as the "token":
http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/

There are many guides around that walk you through how to set this up
- it's pretty straightforward.

-Erik

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri May 18 01:23:02 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 01:23:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] require password with key
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AqbwMDR43Y+4sssPO9cZuEu7Wh_6tF7E2WZ+oQdHfPPQ@mail.gmail.com>

> sshd can be happy with either a key or a password. ?and, ssh keys can
> be generated to require a passphrase.
>
> but can sshd know if the key required a passphrase? ?if not, i want
> sshd to require a password in addition to a key. ?anyone done this?
> or seen how?

i've seen mention of a pam approach, but no detail yet..

From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri May 18 07:50:35 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 07:50:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] require password with key
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AqbwMDR43Y+4sssPO9cZuEu7Wh_6tF7E2WZ+oQdHfPPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AqbwMDR43Y+4sssPO9cZuEu7Wh_6tF7E2WZ+oQdHfPPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08qfkQKDJ50YRvf858t_o+xxMQDtdBfCRiLjhu1vLcqmSQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:23 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> i've seen mention of a pam approach, but no detail yet..

There are instructions on the site I linked to:

http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/wiki/PamModuleInstructions

After cloning out the hg repository, you build the PAM, add a line to
your PAM config to pull in the new authentication module, and then go
through a quick bootstrap/initialization process to set up your token.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri May 18 08:22:43 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 08:22:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] require password with key
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08qfkQKDJ50YRvf858t_o+xxMQDtdBfCRiLjhu1vLcqmSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AqbwMDR43Y+4sssPO9cZuEu7Wh_6tF7E2WZ+oQdHfPPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08qfkQKDJ50YRvf858t_o+xxMQDtdBfCRiLjhu1vLcqmSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Bjmf7ZMHZk23Vq1yoLBX75jdHcAkMK4kU93=4KebqiFw@mail.gmail.com>

>> i've seen mention of a pam approach, but no detail yet..
>
> There are instructions on the site I linked to:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/wiki/PamModuleInstructions

actually i meant/hoped for a pam approach to just key + password
enforcement.  in lieu of that, what i have seen so far is use
ForceCommand and a script to ask some question, it's not pam but
perhaps just as good.

From nesius at gmail.com  Fri May 18 09:38:40 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:38:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] require password with key
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9Bjmf7ZMHZk23Vq1yoLBX75jdHcAkMK4kU93=4KebqiFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BzbGaw5L8rCab7Z3csy3ibgBMm9RqYoPiznzuvtgZ2-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AqbwMDR43Y+4sssPO9cZuEu7Wh_6tF7E2WZ+oQdHfPPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08qfkQKDJ50YRvf858t_o+xxMQDtdBfCRiLjhu1vLcqmSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9Bjmf7ZMHZk23Vq1yoLBX75jdHcAkMK4kU93=4KebqiFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE97dR-ShGGp_t113LXUO2L0gmNPnatrWAJw+Jm=nHX17w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:22 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> >> i've seen mention of a pam approach, but no detail yet..
> >
> > There are instructions on the site I linked to:
> >
> > http://code.google.com/p/google-authenticator/wiki/PamModuleInstructions
>
> actually i meant/hoped for a pam approach to just key + password
> enforcement.  in lieu of that, what i have seen so far is use
> ForceCommand and a script to ask some question, it's not pam but
> perhaps just as good.


The google authenticator will be much stronger.  The authenticator uses
"What you have" to generate a "what you know" that is only valid for a
short amount of time.  Sounds like you are going to create a two-factor
"what you know" system?

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120518/af956115/attachment.html>

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Sun May 20 17:24:18 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:24:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am really new to linux world.

In the last month, came from running win xp pro sp3, to linus mint 12, and
now I am on Peppermint OS two.

I am a long time computer user, web programmer.

I still have a lot to learn about linux, and hopefully I get to learn some
from, all of you..

I am already working on a web-based movie player page, as an alternative to
using software, based on a bash script that generates html based pages that
allow me to scroll through local movies and then play them. Not done yet,
but getting closer.

I love working on bash scripts. And I was always a big fan of automating
things on windows, so I look forward to learn how to do automation in linux.

Have a great weekend, hopefully the cold rain stops.

Craig
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120520/872937be/attachment.html>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sun May 20 20:03:28 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 01:03:28 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
In-Reply-To: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <104737649-1337562208-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-574423237-@b13.c4.bise6.blackberry>

Welcome. If you get into automation even more I would recommend getting into a more powerful language like python or perl.

Perl is my preference but one great thing about linux and friends is there are so many good and useful tools available to get the job done in any number of ways.

Enjoy!


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Rosenblum <crosenblum at gmail.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:24:18 
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



From nesius at gmail.com  Sun May 20 21:18:56 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:18:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
In-Reply-To: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome aboard, Craig. :)

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120520/7f735f7e/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun May 20 21:56:59 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:56:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
In-Reply-To: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205202150140.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 20 May 2012, Craig Rosenblum wrote:

> I am already working on a web-based movie player page, as an alternative 
> to using software, based on a bash script that generates html based 
> pages that allow me to scroll through local movies and then play them. 
> Not done yet, but getting closer.

By "local" do you mean on local drives?  Are they DVD ISOs or MPEG files 
or what?


> I love working on bash scripts. And I was always a big fan of automating 
> things on windows, so I look forward to learn how to do automation in 
> linux.

I guess it's kinda like this:

dos batch --> bash script
scheduler --> crontab

I'm sure the suggestion to learn python or perl was a good one, but I do a 
lot in bash and I think it is very worth knowing.  It helps a lot to have 
bash skills when you need to do something quickly from the command line. 
You can do a lot with bash.

Welcome to the club.

Mike

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Sun May 20 21:58:20 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:58:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vnmxnxKYLD-7M0MTSDfZKPNvW5o3MpUDcGKdoF9rQrr+w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all.

Okay If i talk about what I am working on? Or would that bore you?

Just a hint in case you have any interest :)

This is all in bash, html and jquery

1. Using a bash file to parse all my movie folders
2. Grab imdb data via json api to get correct names, years, imdbid, posters
3. Create html page that will display movie data via json as wall of
polaroid movie poster effect, so that you can move around all the posters
and then pick a movie to play
4. Play movie with in the browser

Here is are the teaser screenshots:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/polaroidscreenshot.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/205/playerscreenshot.png/



On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:

> Welcome aboard, Craig. :)
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120520/d28f6b52/attachment.html>

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Sun May 20 22:01:03 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 22:01:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205202150140.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205202150140.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vmWXFp_C_9tefij23RchbFdcvNaQy2QHCJod6DRu8hG3w@mail.gmail.com>

They are local files only. I have used xbmc, and wide variety of other
media center apps, and wanted for fun, amusement, and to see if i can, to
create a light weight alternative.

In the bash script you specify your movie folder and a folder where all the
www files will be stored. Then the bash script parses and creates all the
necessary html, js files.

I am in middle of switching my coding from just generated straight html to
generating json data that can be used in several places.

As I said this is a work in progress, and I still have a lot of work to get
it really 100% looking nice, and error-free, and so forth. Then I will make
it available open source.

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 20 May 2012, Craig Rosenblum wrote:
>
>  I am already working on a web-based movie player page, as an alternative
>> to using software, based on a bash script that generates html based pages
>> that allow me to scroll through local movies and then play them. Not done
>> yet, but getting closer.
>>
>
> By "local" do you mean on local drives?  Are they DVD ISOs or MPEG files
> or what?
>
>
>
>  I love working on bash scripts. And I was always a big fan of automating
>> things on windows, so I look forward to learn how to do automation in linux.
>>
>
> I guess it's kinda like this:
>
> dos batch --> bash script
> scheduler --> crontab
>
> I'm sure the suggestion to learn python or perl was a good one, but I do a
> lot in bash and I think it is very worth knowing.  It helps a lot to have
> bash skills when you need to do something quickly from the command line.
> You can do a lot with bash.
>
> Welcome to the club.
>
> Mike
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120520/ecdf2f4d/attachment.html>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sun May 20 23:07:39 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 04:07:39 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205202150140.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205202150140.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <1842408800-1337573259-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987062706-@b13.c4.bise6.blackberry>

I've always thought bash was cool and powerful since my first real taste of it but now having learned perl I find that the speed with which you can put together some scripts in bash to do some elaborate tasks is quite impressive given the plethora of additional tools available to integrate into a bash script. 

You can re-invent "cat" in perl but why bother? Perl takes a number of lines vs just 3 characters of c-a-t. I still string together a number of grep's, uniq, sort, awk, etc together to parse some outputs. It would take me a long time in perl (comparatively) to refine the output in a similar manner.


Back to the OP again, that sounds like a very interesting project, though with the surging growth of OTV/VoD all served from "the cloud" (aka the interwebs) I personally have been less inclined to do much along these lines. I would, however, not mind to reap the benefits of your efforts in the spirit of open source, which also would be more interesting to me to provide feedback, bugs discovered, patches developed, etc. My DVD collection stares at everyone, it would be nice to rip them all into a system that would easily enable me access to their content without a cumbersome wrapper system (*cough* mythtv)

Also, it is not boring to hear of someones efforts like this. People who get annoyed or bored by further dialogue on this subject can figure out how to operate their mail clients respective delete / filter functionality.



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:56:59 
To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hi there...

On Sun, 20 May 2012, Craig Rosenblum wrote:

> I am already working on a web-based movie player page, as an alternative 
> to using software, based on a bash script that generates html based 
> pages that allow me to scroll through local movies and then play them. 
> Not done yet, but getting closer.

By "local" do you mean on local drives?  Are they DVD ISOs or MPEG files 
or what?


> I love working on bash scripts. And I was always a big fan of automating 
> things on windows, so I look forward to learn how to do automation in 
> linux.

I guess it's kinda like this:

dos batch --> bash script
scheduler --> crontab

I'm sure the suggestion to learn python or perl was a good one, but I do a 
lot in bash and I think it is very worth knowing.  It helps a lot to have 
bash skills when you need to do something quickly from the command line. 
You can do a lot with bash.

Welcome to the club.

Mike
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Mon May 21 00:59:34 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 00:59:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
In-Reply-To: <1842408800-1337573259-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987062706-@b13.c4.bise6.blackberry>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205202150140.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<1842408800-1337573259-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987062706-@b13.c4.bise6.blackberry>
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vkKHTdThYqKSW=D5mzV+jQp0qfnV37TYn_aO61JBamE4g@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not against learning perl, I am just trying to learn enough of bash to
see what I can or can not do.

For a few year's i've worked with xbmc, have it installed on a soft-modded
original xbox. And it is a lot of work to get movies/tv shows in the
correct format to work with xbmc or any other format so that is easy to
work with. Like subtitles, fanart, posters, banners, etc.

With the advent of html5/css3 I thought why not use the browser as my
interface to my video collection, there are a lot of jquery plugins that
can do crazy effects etc.

So with the browser selected as my interface, now I have to find a way to
make local video files playable.

I want to take the power of bash to work with all kinds of data, and use it
to manage and organize all my technological toys/tools, my cellphone, my
ipod touch, my xbox, my video collection, etc.

my technology motto of the year is "Be organized, be planned, be automated"

Now that I don't have to worry about antivirus, antispyware, etc, I can
focus my energies on cool projects...

What kind of stuff do you guys do for fun?

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> I've always thought bash was cool and powerful since my first real taste
> of it but now having learned perl I find that the speed with which you can
> put together some scripts in bash to do some elaborate tasks is quite
> impressive given the plethora of additional tools available to integrate
> into a bash script.
>
> You can re-invent "cat" in perl but why bother? Perl takes a number of
> lines vs just 3 characters of c-a-t. I still string together a number of
> grep's, uniq, sort, awk, etc together to parse some outputs. It would take
> me a long time in perl (comparatively) to refine the output in a similar
> manner.
>
>
> Back to the OP again, that sounds like a very interesting project, though
> with the surging growth of OTV/VoD all served from "the cloud" (aka the
> interwebs) I personally have been less inclined to do much along these
> lines. I would, however, not mind to reap the benefits of your efforts in
> the spirit of open source, which also would be more interesting to me to
> provide feedback, bugs discovered, patches developed, etc. My DVD
> collection stares at everyone, it would be nice to rip them all into a
> system that would easily enable me access to their content without a
> cumbersome wrapper system (*cough* mythtv)
>
> Also, it is not boring to hear of someones efforts like this. People who
> get annoyed or bored by further dialogue on this subject can figure out how
> to operate their mail clients respective delete / filter functionality.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
> Sender: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:56:59
> To: TCLUG Mailing List<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Reply-To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Hi there...
>
> On Sun, 20 May 2012, Craig Rosenblum wrote:
>
> > I am already working on a web-based movie player page, as an alternative
> > to using software, based on a bash script that generates html based
> > pages that allow me to scroll through local movies and then play them.
> > Not done yet, but getting closer.
>
> By "local" do you mean on local drives?  Are they DVD ISOs or MPEG files
> or what?
>
>
> > I love working on bash scripts. And I was always a big fan of automating
> > things on windows, so I look forward to learn how to do automation in
> > linux.
>
> I guess it's kinda like this:
>
> dos batch --> bash script
> scheduler --> crontab
>
> I'm sure the suggestion to learn python or perl was a good one, but I do a
> lot in bash and I think it is very worth knowing.  It helps a lot to have
> bash skills when you need to do something quickly from the command line.
> You can do a lot with bash.
>
> Welcome to the club.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/f8660db0/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon May 21 03:46:11 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 03:46:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] organizing movie collections using web pages (was "Hi
	there...")
In-Reply-To: <CAP3k0vnmxnxKYLD-7M0MTSDfZKPNvW5o3MpUDcGKdoF9rQrr+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP3k0vnmxnxKYLD-7M0MTSDfZKPNvW5o3MpUDcGKdoF9rQrr+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205210321550.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 20 May 2012, Craig Rosenblum wrote:

> Okay If i talk about what I am working on? Or would that bore you?

It wouldn't bore me at all.  I spent loads of time on similar kinds of 
systems for organizing my photos.  I now have a bunch of DVD ISOs that I 
would like to make easily accessible using some kind of system of HTML 
pages, so this is definitely a project I want to get into.


> This is all in bash, html and jquery
>
> 1. Using a bash file to parse all my movie folders

I don't know what kind of parsing that is, but maybe it won't matter to my 
case.  I put files in directories by genre (Family, Comedy, Drama, etc.).


> 2. Grab imdb data via json api to get correct names, years, imdbid, 
> posters

Now that is huge.  I've never heard of json api.  When I look it up it 
says it's about wordpress blogs.  I guess it works with IMDb, too.  But 
how are you telling json which IMDb page to go to?

I wrote a little script that reads in a DVD ISO filename, which for me is 
a movie title with a year, and it creates an IMDb query string, launches 
firefox and shows the result.  It does pretty well at that, but I have to 
make sure it grabs the right page.

To do what I think you are doing, I guess I would just need to supply a 
list of IMDb accession codes in a hash table with the filenames.  But then 
there is the tricky part of parsing the IMDb pages.  I did a lot of that 
with allmusic.com data using bash scripts (that had a lot of perl code 
inside).


> 3. Create html page that will display movie data via json as wall of 
> polaroid movie poster effect, so that you can move around all the 
> posters and then pick a movie to play

That sounds great.


> 4. Play movie with in the browser

I would like the browser to call VLC, which is what I use to watch these 
DVD ISOs.  There are some problems with watching them in the browser, at 
least for me.  I have two monitors, one is a 42" HDTV, and the browser 
doesn't maintain fullscreen mode when I move the cursor to the other 
monitor.  VLC has no such problem.


> Here is are the teaser screenshots:
>
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/polaroidscreenshot.png/
>
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/205/playerscreenshot.png/

Wow.  The first one shows images that look like a pile of photos.  Do you 
just push them around with the mouse as if they were a pile of photos? 
That's amazing and kind of fun, but I think I would just tile the images 
on the screen, boring as that is.

Mike

From gm5729 at gmail.com  Mon May 21 05:25:56 2012
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (gk)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 05:25:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there... (Craig Rosenblum)
Message-ID: <CAFxDM3zvXe8V3f-dB6FFB2tdQ0c4kZDbF=U0fZkV2+vFvThGVA@mail.gmail.com>

As mentioned below Bash can be a valuable asset; not that Perl and
Python can't be one. You don't have to learn it all in one day. That
being said; there is a Bash script by h2 and trash80 call inxi. I
believe is is Mints repos; I know it is in ArchLinux repos. That
script is h2's baby he has added so many features. I'm pretty sure
there is not any original code. He is the best programmer I know that
has pushed Bash to the limits and beyond for getting things done.
Definitely pro material.

gkey


>
> ? 1. Hi there... (Craig Rosenblum)
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:24:18 -0500
> From: Craig Rosenblum <crosenblum at gmail.com>
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
> Message-ID:
> ? ? ? ?<CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I love working on bash scripts. And I was always a big fan of automating
> things on windows, so I look forward to learn how to do automation in linux.
>

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Mon May 21 07:28:14 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 07:28:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] organizing movie collections using web pages (was
 "Hi there...")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205210321550.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP3k0vnmxnxKYLD-7M0MTSDfZKPNvW5o3MpUDcGKdoF9rQrr+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205210321550.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vmh1V-2DgmXA4V31goaTgguY8tN2hwjxTBHm79GObb_mw@mail.gmail.com>

I have 2 seperate ways of accessing the imdb data. The 1st one isn't 100%
foolproof, as it has problems with data with comma's in it. And I didn't
write that part, just put it together.

If you go to http://www.imdbapi.com/?t=movie name it returns the result as
a json data set.

jQuery for those of you who don't know is a very powerful javascript
library for manipulating all kinds of web related features, data etc.

One of the thing's it's great at is sending/receiving data in different
formats on a web page. Such as xml, json, csv's, etc.

So i have to have different times i need to access the imdbapi site, one in
the bash file to get the correct movie title, year and poster url, then in
the player.html page which grab's the imdb data again to make sure i didn't
miss anything in the bash and then displays all the up to date, imdb data.

On the wall page, I am using a jQuery polaroid wall plugin/effect that
enables me to drag n drop the movie poster's around, altho after I added
the click event, so that when you click on a movie poster it goes to the
player page, to play it, the drag and drop doesn't work so well.

I have 2 major problems that i am trying to figure out lol.

1. How to get the video page to play a local file:// video/movie

2. How to store the data for all the movie posters, in a way that is
accessible on all the html pages.

After I figure both those out i plan to finish tweaking the layout and
design of the player pages.

This may end up being a waste of time if the browser can not or will not
playing video files that are stored locally.

In the previous version I just used the bash file to fully generate the
wall.html with all the div's full of the movie data, and that worked, but I
also want to have access to the same data on the player page, but in a
different way, such as a scrollable thumbnails that let you choose a
different movie.

Anyway's that's what i'm working on.

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 3:46 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 20 May 2012, Craig Rosenblum wrote:
>
>  Okay If i talk about what I am working on? Or would that bore you?
>>
>
> It wouldn't bore me at all.  I spent loads of time on similar kinds of
> systems for organizing my photos.  I now have a bunch of DVD ISOs that I
> would like to make easily accessible using some kind of system of HTML
> pages, so this is definitely a project I want to get into.
>
>
>  This is all in bash, html and jquery
>>
>> 1. Using a bash file to parse all my movie folders
>>
>
> I don't know what kind of parsing that is, but maybe it won't matter to my
> case.  I put files in directories by genre (Family, Comedy, Drama, etc.).
>
>
>  2. Grab imdb data via json api to get correct names, years, imdbid,
>> posters
>>
>
> Now that is huge.  I've never heard of json api.  When I look it up it
> says it's about wordpress blogs.  I guess it works with IMDb, too.  But how
> are you telling json which IMDb page to go to?
>
> I wrote a little script that reads in a DVD ISO filename, which for me is
> a movie title with a year, and it creates an IMDb query string, launches
> firefox and shows the result.  It does pretty well at that, but I have to
> make sure it grabs the right page.
>
> To do what I think you are doing, I guess I would just need to supply a
> list of IMDb accession codes in a hash table with the filenames.  But then
> there is the tricky part of parsing the IMDb pages.  I did a lot of that
> with allmusic.com data using bash scripts (that had a lot of perl code
> inside).
>
>
>  3. Create html page that will display movie data via json as wall of
>> polaroid movie poster effect, so that you can move around all the posters
>> and then pick a movie to play
>>
>
> That sounds great.
>
>
>  4. Play movie with in the browser
>>
>
> I would like the browser to call VLC, which is what I use to watch these
> DVD ISOs.  There are some problems with watching them in the browser, at
> least for me.  I have two monitors, one is a 42" HDTV, and the browser
> doesn't maintain fullscreen mode when I move the cursor to the other
> monitor.  VLC has no such problem.
>
>
>  Here is are the teaser screenshots:
>>
>> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-**images/651/polaroidscreenshot.**png/<http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/polaroidscreenshot.png/>
>>
>> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-**images/205/playerscreenshot.**png/<http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/205/playerscreenshot.png/>
>>
>
> Wow.  The first one shows images that look like a pile of photos.  Do you
> just push them around with the mouse as if they were a pile of photos?
> That's amazing and kind of fun, but I think I would just tile the images on
> the screen, boring as that is.
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/393eb095/attachment-0001.html>

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Mon May 21 07:29:08 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 07:29:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there... (Craig Rosenblum)
In-Reply-To: <CAFxDM3zvXe8V3f-dB6FFB2tdQ0c4kZDbF=U0fZkV2+vFvThGVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDM3zvXe8V3f-dB6FFB2tdQ0c4kZDbF=U0fZkV2+vFvThGVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vmUg7NtqBUZ6_mxOTTdhBTQYyM=n3pm2R54agDRh81YnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't inxi a program that displays hardware reports?

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 5:25 AM, gk <gm5729 at gmail.com> wrote:

> As mentioned below Bash can be a valuable asset; not that Perl and
> Python can't be one. You don't have to learn it all in one day. That
> being said; there is a Bash script by h2 and trash80 call inxi. I
> believe is is Mints repos; I know it is in ArchLinux repos. That
> script is h2's baby he has added so many features. I'm pretty sure
> there is not any original code. He is the best programmer I know that
> has pushed Bash to the limits and beyond for getting things done.
> Definitely pro material.
>
> gkey
>
>
> >
> >   1. Hi there... (Craig Rosenblum)
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:24:18 -0500
> > From: Craig Rosenblum <crosenblum at gmail.com>
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: [tclug-list] Hi there...
> > Message-ID:
> >        <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=
> CSeftQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I love working on bash scripts. And I was always a big fan of automating
> > things on windows, so I look forward to learn how to do automation in
> linux.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/8c9d5992/attachment.html>

From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Mon May 21 07:39:19 2012
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 07:39:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] organizing movie collections using web pages (was
 "Hi there...")
In-Reply-To: <CAP3k0vmh1V-2DgmXA4V31goaTgguY8tN2hwjxTBHm79GObb_mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP3k0vnmxnxKYLD-7M0MTSDfZKPNvW5o3MpUDcGKdoF9rQrr+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205210321550.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAP3k0vmh1V-2DgmXA4V31goaTgguY8tN2hwjxTBHm79GObb_mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEQLb8=8rOri91p6aVmcmbAwEp2Af-TtRM0hcRJAExBm9WCBaw@mail.gmail.com>

> 1. How to get the video page to play a local file:// video/movie

Assuming that you are running this as an html file in a directory (not
hosted, either remotely or through a local server), have you tried
just using relative paths instead of "file:///" absolute ones?  You
could always try a symlink to your movie directory if it's not stored
in the same place as your html file, though I'm not sure if this would
work without a server.

You could also run a minimalist server.  This would be the foolproof
way to ensure relative file paths work with symlinks.


> 2. How to store the data for all the movie posters, in a way that is
> accessible on all the html pages.

I know html5 introduced ways for javascript to store information
within a database in the web browser, though I haven't played around
with this too much.

-Max

From tlunde at gmail.com  Mon May 21 08:05:00 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 08:05:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] organizing movie collections using web pages (was
	"Hi there...")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205210321550.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP3k0vnmxnxKYLD-7M0MTSDfZKPNvW5o3MpUDcGKdoF9rQrr+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205210321550.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <5514E53E-4C84-4B46-9D02-E179E8F63A1A@gmail.com>

Since there seems to be some interest in hearing how folks organize their local media, here's my $0.02  

For my part, I store movies as 1234567.iso (using the imdb number as the filename) because:
(a) it makes the imdb lookup from a script later unambiguous and
(b) it is easy to have a parallel directory of hard or soft links that are The Movie Title (year) 

Movie posters are great, but the ones at the imdb are pretty low quality. At the same time that I put the movie in the server, I find a good quality (at least 750x500 and mostly 1500x1000) poster or artwork and save it as 1234567.jpg. Again, using the imdb number as a filename / database key makes it unambiguous to match the right poster and movie title. Because some titles get reused, this can otherwise be a problem. 

  Google Images makes the search and the specification of a "large" image easy. www.impawards.com is another good source. 



At one point, I hit the imdb.com site quickly with a script and my IP address got banned for a while. 

So, now, I keep a local lookup table of imdb number:::The Movie Title (year) 
and only the site for an unknown movie. Checking this file first is also significantly faster than a remote lookup. 

Having some local resources makes it straightforward to use MP4Box to add metadata like the cast info, poster, et al into a transcoded version of the file that can be thrown on an iPad, played by a Roku box, put on an Android phone, etc. HandBrake is, I think, the most straightforward solution to this. 

Keeping the ISO online is best for quality, special features, etc. but few devices will play it directly. 

If I were starting over, I'd use tmdb instead of imdb. 

Thanks for the pointer to the API site. 

Thomas 


On May 21, 2012, at 3:46 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> I wrote a little script that reads in a DVD ISO filename, which for me is a movie title with a year, and it creates an IMDb query string, launches firefox and shows the result.  It does pretty well at that, but I have to make sure it grabs the right page.
> 
> To do what I think you are doing, I guess I would just need to supply a list of IMDb accession codes in a hash table with the filenames.  But then there is the tricky part of parsing the IMDb pages.  I did a lot of that with allmusic.com data using bash scripts (that had a lot of perl code inside).
> 

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Mon May 21 09:10:50 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 09:10:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] organizing movie collections using web pages (was
 "Hi there...")
In-Reply-To: <5514E53E-4C84-4B46-9D02-E179E8F63A1A@gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vmEQuUxkd+8gzdOkrQh6srYr6kYVV7GVL6cbp8=CSeftQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_a562rQVO=dDNGHt8Q1Z3obx8+Eq2qDY3GFQy1JU=MJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAP3k0vnmxnxKYLD-7M0MTSDfZKPNvW5o3MpUDcGKdoF9rQrr+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205210321550.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<5514E53E-4C84-4B46-9D02-E179E8F63A1A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vnXq9ifFKEPa_w-y+nL1YLFFPYq3xejLe0mxnkRmkZa0g@mail.gmail.com>

Before on the window's side there were a plethora of tools, to massage the
movie data. ember media manager, yamm, long list.

So eventually on my 2nd hd drive, i have a movies folder, and each movie
has it's own folders.

Now in linux i found this sweet app called "Subdownloader" that is
reasonably easy to download subtitles for movies. I like subtitles because
i am both hearing impaired, and plus some of the videos I watch are asian,
so i like to read.
Although I would love to be able to figure out how to download subtitles
via bash.

All movie associated files have the same file name as the folder name,
except different file extensions of course. So there will be a folder
called "A History of Violence (2005)" and the files will be "A History Of
Violence (2005).avi, A History Of Violence (2005).nfo, A History Of
Violence (2005).srt" etc.

 Another of my projects is to help take all the stuff i've learned to help
create a totally bash based movie data massager.

I love how all the different plugin's of xbmc can add, stuff to the movie
folders, like fanart, posters, subtitles, actor photos, youtube trailers,
etc. I want to be able to do the same thing for all my videos. just
automate it to make the movie playing experience rich with data.

yeah media is the juice of today, and being able to play media on any
device, on any network is what is cool.

Although it is a major pain in the ass to get the data so perfect that it
plays everywhere.

And the reason I went web-based is that apps like xbmc can be really
performance draining. I love them I love all the features, but there has to
be a lighter-weight way to deliver video content to my pc.

Wish you all a great morning!

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Thomas Lunde <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:

> Since there seems to be some interest in hearing how folks organize their
> local media, here's my $0.02
>
> For my part, I store movies as 1234567.iso (using the imdb number as the
> filename) because:
> (a) it makes the imdb lookup from a script later unambiguous and
> (b) it is easy to have a parallel directory of hard or soft links that are
> The Movie Title (year)
>
> Movie posters are great, but the ones at the imdb are pretty low quality.
> At the same time that I put the movie in the server, I find a good quality
> (at least 750x500 and mostly 1500x1000) poster or artwork and save it as
> 1234567.jpg. Again, using the imdb number as a filename / database key
> makes it unambiguous to match the right poster and movie title. Because
> some titles get reused, this can otherwise be a problem.
>
>  Google Images makes the search and the specification of a "large" image
> easy. www.impawards.com is another good source.
>
>
>
> At one point, I hit the imdb.com site quickly with a script and my IP
> address got banned for a while.
>
> So, now, I keep a local lookup table of imdb number:::The Movie Title
> (year)
> and only the site for an unknown movie. Checking this file first is also
> significantly faster than a remote lookup.
>
> Having some local resources makes it straightforward to use MP4Box to add
> metadata like the cast info, poster, et al into a transcoded version of the
> file that can be thrown on an iPad, played by a Roku box, put on an Android
> phone, etc. HandBrake is, I think, the most straightforward solution to
> this.
>
> Keeping the ISO online is best for quality, special features, etc. but few
> devices will play it directly.
>
> If I were starting over, I'd use tmdb instead of imdb.
>
> Thanks for the pointer to the API site.
>
> Thomas
>
>
> On May 21, 2012, at 3:46 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote a little script that reads in a DVD ISO filename, which for me
> is a movie title with a year, and it creates an IMDb query string, launches
> firefox and shows the result.  It does pretty well at that, but I have to
> make sure it grabs the right page.
> >
> > To do what I think you are doing, I guess I would just need to supply a
> list of IMDb accession codes in a hash table with the filenames.  But then
> there is the tricky part of parsing the IMDb pages.  I did a lot of that
> with allmusic.com data using bash scripts (that had a lot of perl code
> inside).
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/330f8949/attachment-0001.html>

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon May 21 15:38:45 2012
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:38:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>

I have a WTF in progress, and I can't figure out why.  I have a CentOS box 
that I use to store various backups on at work.  All the backups are 
stored on a separate RAID 6 setup (11TB - LVM using ext4).  The backups 
area is shared via Samba.

So I just rm a directory that was close to 6TB is size.  However when I do 
a    df -h   to disk usage remains unchanged.

I thought Samba might have something to do with this, so I restarted the 
service.  No Change.  I rebooted the box and no change.

Has anyone experienced this before, and if so how did you reclaim the 
space?

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Bob






From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Mon May 21 16:03:56 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:03:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AwH+5cN2jnRSOkpU_oQ8=xosticrw5_M8j--45RpMDGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAD+dB9Bzz-giU37BhL-8HGmziCUREZC8eJnffhzPFa7m_baJ4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AwH+5cN2jnRSOkpU_oQ8=xosticrw5_M8j--45RpMDGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AdaygN26=U5eRW=d6vSz=v0jerFXTLjc-DbKbJbixKGg@mail.gmail.com>

what fs?  btrfs et al have features that could be holding on to the content.

what sort of backups?  BackupPC et al keep hardlinks to everything.  you
can explore what's allocated with du..
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/1c5e850f/attachment.html>

From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:06:23 2012
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:06:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <CAJCD7j6tkCQKA-Gs99a+CXVRRLHAfoL553fy5LhXNObkC-rYnw@mail.gmail.com>

lsof /directory
On May 21, 2012 3:39 PM, "Mr. B-o-B" <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a WTF in progress, and I can't figure out why.  I have a CentOS box
> that I use to store various backups on at work.  All the backups are stored
> on a separate RAID 6 setup (11TB - LVM using ext4).  The backups area is
> shared via Samba.
>
> So I just rm a directory that was close to 6TB is size.  However when I do
> a    df -h   to disk usage remains unchanged.
>
> I thought Samba might have something to do with this, so I restarted the
> service.  No Change.  I rebooted the box and no change.
>
> Has anyone experienced this before, and if so how did you reclaim the
> space?
>
> Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/34ab4662/attachment.html>

From jmore at starmind.org  Mon May 21 15:45:01 2012
From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:45:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3GUt_yk0u7MXdfuMnbWyG5SXR3O3UL6PMMFHsKVV3HKja5Xg@mail.gmail.com>

Ext4 effectively does a block-level wipe when you do a delete. (Makes
forensics difficult.)  Odds are that your "rm" command has removed the
file pointers, but the kernel has not yet completed scrubbing the
disk.  I would expect the space to become free once that process is
done.

-Josh More


On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a WTF in progress, and I can't figure out why. ?I have a CentOS box
> that I use to store various backups on at work. ?All the backups are stored
> on a separate RAID 6 setup (11TB - LVM using ext4). ?The backups area is
> shared via Samba.
>
> So I just rm a directory that was close to 6TB is size. ?However when I do a
> ? ?df -h ? to disk usage remains unchanged.
>
> I thought Samba might have something to do with this, so I restarted the
> service. ?No Change. ?I rebooted the box and no change.
>
> Has anyone experienced this before, and if so how did you reclaim the space?
>
> Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon May 21 16:11:34 2012
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:11:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <1337634694.19004.64.camel@sysadmin3a>

I've occasionally seen some disk/file operations under some
circumstances not fully complete due to buffering.
You can try the "sync" command for these cases.



On Mon, 2012-05-21 at 15:38 -0500, Mr. B-o-B wrote:

> I have a WTF in progress, and I can't figure out why.  I have a CentOS box 
> that I use to store various backups on at work.  All the backups are 
> stored on a separate RAID 6 setup (11TB - LVM using ext4).  The backups 
> area is shared via Samba.
> 
> So I just rm a directory that was close to 6TB is size.  However when I do 
> a    df -h   to disk usage remains unchanged.
> 
> I thought Samba might have something to do with this, so I restarted the 
> service.  No Change.  I rebooted the box and no change.
> 
> Has anyone experienced this before, and if so how did you reclaim the 
> space?
> 
> Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/2a0ac49f/attachment.html>

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:14:21 2012
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:14:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <CAB3GUt_yk0u7MXdfuMnbWyG5SXR3O3UL6PMMFHsKVV3HKja5Xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAB3GUt_yk0u7MXdfuMnbWyG5SXR3O3UL6PMMFHsKVV3HKja5Xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211612200.32585@conan.grunners.com>

Josh More cried from the depths of the abyss...

> Ext4 effectively does a block-level wipe when you do a delete. (Makes
> forensics difficult.)  Odds are that your "rm" command has removed the
> file pointers, but the kernel has not yet completed scrubbing the
> disk.  I would expect the space to become free once that process is
> done.
>

Understood.  Would the kernel scrubbing cause disk 
activity?  I do not see any disk activity at the moment.

Thanks!

Mr. B-o-B







From jmore at starmind.org  Mon May 21 16:18:51 2012
From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:18:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211612200.32585@conan.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAB3GUt_yk0u7MXdfuMnbWyG5SXR3O3UL6PMMFHsKVV3HKja5Xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211612200.32585@conan.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3GUt9NYYhkidgKfXYY-qz1u-UqnbX7tW+r1pHxWbSDzpSdUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> Josh More cried from the depths of the abyss...
>
>> Ext4 effectively does a block-level wipe when you do a delete. (Makes
>> forensics difficult.) ?Odds are that your "rm" command has removed the
>> file pointers, but the kernel has not yet completed scrubbing the
>> disk. ?I would expect the space to become free once that process is
>> done.
>>
>
> Understood. ?Would the kernel scrubbing cause disk activity? ?I do not see
> any disk activity at the moment.
>

I would expect that it does, but I don't know how the kernel on your
system would prioritize that activity.  Personally, I'd just run
"sync" a few times and then check it in the morning.  If it's not
clear, then I'm wrong.  :)

Personally, if I were writing a driver and prioritizing read times
(which is common), I would prioritize the scrubbing as low as
possible, as that would only cause a production issue if the drive was
near 100% full while a read prioritization issue would happen every
time someone deleted a file.  Not sure how the driver you're using was
written though.

-Josh

From nesius at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:27:16 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:27:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <CAB3GUt9NYYhkidgKfXYY-qz1u-UqnbX7tW+r1pHxWbSDzpSdUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAB3GUt_yk0u7MXdfuMnbWyG5SXR3O3UL6PMMFHsKVV3HKja5Xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211612200.32585@conan.grunners.com>
	<CAB3GUt9NYYhkidgKfXYY-qz1u-UqnbX7tW+r1pHxWbSDzpSdUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE8Z7+yHt=N5suUKOJNn7XOPWWg7i1wdRy2Ffy58dsnZfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Did you delete a lot of files, or a very few large ones?  I'm wondering if
your backup service is keeping a file-handle open on a backup vault.

-Rob


On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Josh More <jmore at starmind.org> wrote:

> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Josh More cried from the depths of the abyss...
> >
> >> Ext4 effectively does a block-level wipe when you do a delete. (Makes
> >> forensics difficult.)  Odds are that your "rm" command has removed the
> >> file pointers, but the kernel has not yet completed scrubbing the
> >> disk.  I would expect the space to become free once that process is
> >> done.
> >>
> >
> > Understood.  Would the kernel scrubbing cause disk activity?  I do not
> see
> > any disk activity at the moment.
> >
>
> I would expect that it does, but I don't know how the kernel on your
> system would prioritize that activity.  Personally, I'd just run
> "sync" a few times and then check it in the morning.  If it's not
> clear, then I'm wrong.  :)
>
> Personally, if I were writing a driver and prioritizing read times
> (which is common), I would prioritize the scrubbing as low as
> possible, as that would only cause a production issue if the drive was
> near 100% full while a read prioritization issue would happen every
> time someone deleted a file.  Not sure how the driver you're using was
> written though.
>
> -Josh
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/1acadb63/attachment.html>

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:28:00 2012
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:28:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AdaygN26=U5eRW=d6vSz=v0jerFXTLjc-DbKbJbixKGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAD+dB9Bzz-giU37BhL-8HGmziCUREZC8eJnffhzPFa7m_baJ4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AwH+5cN2jnRSOkpU_oQ8=xosticrw5_M8j--45RpMDGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AdaygN26=U5eRW=d6vSz=v0jerFXTLjc-DbKbJbixKGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211615050.32585@conan.grunners.com>

gregrwm cried from the depths of the abyss...

> 
> what fs??

ext4

>  btrfs et al have features that could be holding on to the 
content.
> 
> what sort of backups?? BackupPC et al keep hardlinks to everything.? you can explore what's allocated with du..

The directory contained 5 backpus of the content of our email archiving 
server (mirapont razor safe 170).

I have check using du with the --max-depth=1 option to keep it easy to 
read, and the totals don't add up?



From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:28:49 2012
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:28:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <1337634694.19004.64.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<1337634694.19004.64.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211628230.32585@conan.grunners.com>

Justin Krejci cried from the depths of the abyss...

> I've occasionally seen some disk/file operations under some circumstances not fully complete due to buffering.
> You can try the "sync" command for these cases.
>

Thanks.  I'll give that a try.



From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:32:30 2012
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:32:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE8Z7+yHt=N5suUKOJNn7XOPWWg7i1wdRy2Ffy58dsnZfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAB3GUt_yk0u7MXdfuMnbWyG5SXR3O3UL6PMMFHsKVV3HKja5Xg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211612200.32585@conan.grunners.com>
	<CAB3GUt9NYYhkidgKfXYY-qz1u-UqnbX7tW+r1pHxWbSDzpSdUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE8Z7+yHt=N5suUKOJNn7XOPWWg7i1wdRy2Ffy58dsnZfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211629260.32585@conan.grunners.com>

Robert Nesius cried from the depths of the abyss...

> Did you delete a lot of files, or a very few large ones? ?I'm wondering if your backup service is keeping a file-handle open on a backup vault.?

It was over a million very small files.  I killed off the backup service 
to this file share before I deleted the files.  I setup a new box to store 
the email archives.  I re archived to the new box.  The last chore was to 
purge the backups on the old box.




From nesius at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:35:48 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:35:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211615050.32585@conan.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAD+dB9Bzz-giU37BhL-8HGmziCUREZC8eJnffhzPFa7m_baJ4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AwH+5cN2jnRSOkpU_oQ8=xosticrw5_M8j--45RpMDGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9AdaygN26=U5eRW=d6vSz=v0jerFXTLjc-DbKbJbixKGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211615050.32585@conan.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE9P0WDyyz7NkPeLaMRrU6ESW06-8paY+QE4SL=4SOz+Dg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:

> gregrwm cried from the depths of the abyss...
>
>
>> what fs?
>>
>
> ext4
>
>   btrfs et al have features that could be holding on to the
>>
> content.
>
>>
>> what sort of backups?  BackupPC et al keep hardlinks to everything.  you
>> can explore what's allocated with du..
>>
>
> The directory contained 5 backpus of the content of our email archiving
> server (mirapont razor safe 170).
>
> I have check using du with the --max-depth=1 option to keep it easy to
> read, and the totals don't add up?
>

Do you get the same answer with "du -sh" ?   Or is your directory structure
really that flat?

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/5b7faec4/attachment.html>

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Mon May 21 16:40:44 2012
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 14:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <1337636444.91696.YahooMailNeo@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

My best guess is that one (or more) of the files still has an open file handle.? If you rm a file that is open my another process, it simply removes the directory entry but leaves the inode (the actual pointer to the file space) around.? When the other user closes the file, it gets deleted.
?
--- 
Wayne Johnson,????????????             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003????????????             | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis



>________________________________
> From: Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>
>To: TCLUG - LIST <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 3:38 PM
>Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
> 
>I have a WTF in progress, and I can't figure out why.? I have a CentOS box that I use to store various backups on at work.? All the backups are stored on a separate RAID 6 setup (11TB - LVM using ext4).? The backups area is shared via Samba.
>
>So I just rm a directory that was close to 6TB is size.? However when I do a? ? df -h?  to disk usage remains unchanged.
>
>I thought Samba might have something to do with this, so I restarted the service.? No Change.? I rebooted the box and no change.
>
>Has anyone experienced this before, and if so how did you reclaim the space?
>
>Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/36363c88/attachment-0001.html>

From sfertch at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:42:11 2012
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:42:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <CAJCD7j6tkCQKA-Gs99a+CXVRRLHAfoL553fy5LhXNObkC-rYnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAJCD7j6tkCQKA-Gs99a+CXVRRLHAfoL553fy5LhXNObkC-rYnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJCD7j4XsKG7EuwcZ=-7rHB_XLj2rV9-U4dZjOqWaSxZ9h2YMg@mail.gmail.com>

If you do an lsof against the directory, what processes do you see running?
On May 21, 2012 4:06 PM, "Shawn Fertch" <sfertch at gmail.com> wrote:

> lsof /directory
> On May 21, 2012 3:39 PM, "Mr. B-o-B" <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a WTF in progress, and I can't figure out why.  I have a CentOS
>> box that I use to store various backups on at work.  All the backups are
>> stored on a separate RAID 6 setup (11TB - LVM using ext4).  The backups
>> area is shared via Samba.
>>
>> So I just rm a directory that was close to 6TB is size.  However when I
>> do a    df -h   to disk usage remains unchanged.
>>
>> I thought Samba might have something to do with this, so I restarted the
>> service.  No Change.  I rebooted the box and no change.
>>
>> Has anyone experienced this before, and if so how did you reclaim the
>> space?
>>
>> Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/61b88479/attachment.html>

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon May 21 16:45:30 2012
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:45:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <CAJCD7j4XsKG7EuwcZ=-7rHB_XLj2rV9-U4dZjOqWaSxZ9h2YMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAJCD7j6tkCQKA-Gs99a+CXVRRLHAfoL553fy5LhXNObkC-rYnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJCD7j4XsKG7EuwcZ=-7rHB_XLj2rV9-U4dZjOqWaSxZ9h2YMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBAB77A.0@gmail.com>

On 5/21/2012 4:42 PM, Shawn Fertch cried from the depths of the abyss:
> If you do an lsof against the directory, what processes do you see running?

If i lsof the dir the contained the dir I deleted it is showing smbd.  I 
restared it a couple times.  No change.

I think I'm just going to let it be for now, and check it in the morning.

Thanks to all who replied!

Mr. B-o-B

From tlunde at gmail.com  Mon May 21 17:27:20 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 17:27:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <4FBAB77A.0@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAJCD7j6tkCQKA-Gs99a+CXVRRLHAfoL553fy5LhXNObkC-rYnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJCD7j4XsKG7EuwcZ=-7rHB_XLj2rV9-U4dZjOqWaSxZ9h2YMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FBAB77A.0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B12C1A53-B03B-4FED-9402-D5066D2D94E1@gmail.com>

Most of the answers so far (lsof, sync, etc. ) seem to have missed the fact that the OP rebooted the box after deletion. Since no process or file handle will survive that, let me ask:

Is there any reason that there could be hard links on this volume?  Some backup systems use those for files that don't change between backup runs. Apple's Time Machine is one example of a system that does such, but there are many others. 

Using find or ls -l paired with egrep, check for hard links. You won't get the disk space back until the last link to a file has been rm'd. 

Let us know what the ultimate solution is, please.

Thanks!
Thomas 

On May 21, 2012, at 4:45 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/21/2012 4:42 PM, Shawn Fertch cried from the depths of the abyss:
>> If you do an lsof against the directory, what processes do you see running?
> 
> If i lsof the dir the contained the dir I deleted it is showing smbd.  I restared it a couple times.  No change.
> 
> I think I'm just going to let it be for now, and check it in the morning.
> 
> Thanks to all who replied!
> 
> Mr. B-o-B
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From blutgens at gmail.com  Mon May 21 19:25:37 2012
From: blutgens at gmail.com (Ben)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:25:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
Message-ID: <CANoiwe52+Zxdx11pm1dxrDbxe=okK0fEuyLDyPk0UKjaOkE7ww@mail.gmail.com>

Chances are something had those files open when you ran your rm, use "lsof"
find the offending process, killing it (or HUP sometimes works) should
cause the space to come back, there's another fuser trick, but I can't
remember what it is atm. Worst case, give it a therapeutic reboot.

HTH.

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Mr. B-o-B <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a WTF in progress, and I can't figure out why.  I have a CentOS box
> that I use to store various backups on at work.  All the backups are stored
> on a separate RAID 6 setup (11TB - LVM using ext4).  The backups area is
> shared via Samba.
>
> So I just rm a directory that was close to 6TB is size.  However when I do
> a    df -h   to disk usage remains unchanged.
>
> I thought Samba might have something to do with this, so I restarted the
> service.  No Change.  I rebooted the box and no change.
>
> Has anyone experienced this before, and if so how did you reclaim the
> space?
>
> Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>



-- 
Ben Lutgens
Linux / Unix System Administrator

Three of your friends throw up after eating chicken salad.  Do you think:
"I should find more robust friends" or "we should check that refrigerator"?
       -- Donald Becker, on vortex-bug, suspecting a network-wide problem
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120521/293f73ba/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon May 21 19:52:36 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:52:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <B12C1A53-B03B-4FED-9402-D5066D2D94E1@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAJCD7j6tkCQKA-Gs99a+CXVRRLHAfoL553fy5LhXNObkC-rYnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJCD7j4XsKG7EuwcZ=-7rHB_XLj2rV9-U4dZjOqWaSxZ9h2YMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FBAB77A.0@gmail.com>
	<B12C1A53-B03B-4FED-9402-D5066D2D94E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205211944110.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 21 May 2012, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> Most of the answers so far (lsof, sync, etc. ) seem to have missed the 
> fact that the OP rebooted the box after deletion. Since no process or 
> file handle will survive that, let me ask:
>
> Is there any reason that there could be hard links on this volume? 
> Some backup systems use those for files that don't change between backup 
> runs. Apple's Time Machine is one example of a system that does such, 
> but there are many others.
>
> Using find or ls -l paired with egrep, check for hard links. You won't 
> get the disk space back until the last link to a file has been rm'd.
>
> Let us know what the ultimate solution is, please.


Mr. B-o-B (the OP) doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would make this 
mistake, but my first thought was "wastebasket" only because that's what 
would happen to naive users on Windows.  But regarding stupid mistakes -- 
I can do things that no one would even believe were possible.

Mike

From bbaptist at iexposure.com  Tue May 22 08:47:51 2012
From: bbaptist at iexposure.com (Bret Baptist)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 08:47:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Large Delete - No Reclaimed space with df
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205211944110.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1205211525130.11711@alien.grunners.com>
	<CAJCD7j6tkCQKA-Gs99a+CXVRRLHAfoL553fy5LhXNObkC-rYnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJCD7j4XsKG7EuwcZ=-7rHB_XLj2rV9-U4dZjOqWaSxZ9h2YMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FBAB77A.0@gmail.com>
	<B12C1A53-B03B-4FED-9402-D5066D2D94E1@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1205211944110.29221@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <4FBB9907.50804@iexposure.com>

On 05/21/12 19:52, Mike Miller wrote:
> On Mon, 21 May 2012, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>
>> Most of the answers so far (lsof, sync, etc. ) seem to have missed the
>> fact that the OP rebooted the box after deletion. Since no process or
>> file handle will survive that, let me ask:
>>
>> Is there any reason that there could be hard links on this volume?
>> Some backup systems use those for files that don't change between
>> backup runs. Apple's Time Machine is one example of a system that does
>> such, but there are many others.
>>
>> Using find or ls -l paired with egrep, check for hard links. You won't
>> get the disk space back until the last link to a file has been rm'd.
>>
>> Let us know what the ultimate solution is, please.
>
>
> Mr. B-o-B (the OP) doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would make this
> mistake, but my first thought was "wastebasket" only because that's what
> would happen to naive users on Windows. But regarding stupid mistakes --
> I can do things that no one would even believe were possible.
>
> Mike

Actually Samba does have a feature for a "recycle bin" when you delete 
from shares. I wonder if this is enabled on the Samba server.


Thanks.
-- 
Bret Baptist
Senior Network Administrator
Internet Exposure
bbaptist at iexposure.com
(612) 676-1946 x117

Check out our blog: www.iexposure.com/blog
Follow us on Twitter: www.twitter.com/iexposure
Like us on Facebook www.facebook.com/iexposure
Connect on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/company/internet-exposure

A Digital Agency Since 1995

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Tue May 22 18:15:42 2012
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:15:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xubuntu (Unbutu w/out Unity!) @Penguins Unbound May
	26th
Message-ID: <4FBC1E1E.6060809@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday May 26st at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Xubuntu (Ubuntu without Unity!)

Xubuntu is intended to be a small, lighter Ubuntu. It uses Xfce as the 
the window manager, so you don't use Unity or Gnome 3. It has the look 
and feel of the traditional Linux X interface.

I will show you Xubuntu, and show you some tips and tricks to help you 
play videos and add some extras!

==>brian.


*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed May 23 05:40:25 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 05:40:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xubuntu (Unbutu w/out Unity!) @Penguins Unbound
	May 26th
In-Reply-To: <4FBC1E1E.6060809@Goecke-Dolan.com>
References: <4FBC1E1E.6060809@Goecke-Dolan.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9ArGnB+JgYJNcmCMqwSc6Tk2p_XWRtdZmgMzenrQs8e9w@mail.gmail.com>

> Xubuntu is intended to be a small, lighter Ubuntu.

last i knew xubuntu was no longer lighter weight than ubuntu.  enter
lubuntu, which has filled that role nicely.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120523/d28deaf4/attachment.html>

From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Wed May 23 06:47:43 2012
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 06:47:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xubuntu (Unbutu w/out Unity!) @Penguins Unbound
 May 26th
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9ArGnB+JgYJNcmCMqwSc6Tk2p_XWRtdZmgMzenrQs8e9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FBC1E1E.6060809@Goecke-Dolan.com>
	<CAD+dB9ArGnB+JgYJNcmCMqwSc6Tk2p_XWRtdZmgMzenrQs8e9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120523064743.5fd4811c@Newton>

> last i knew xubuntu was no longer lighter weight than ubuntu.  enter
> lubuntu, which has filled that role nicely.

You could also just run Ubuntu and install something other than Unity.
I technically run Kubuntu, even though the only desktop environment I
use is e17. 

-Max

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed May 23 12:53:47 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:53:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
Message-ID: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>

I'm in the market for a basic Android device.  My main reason for buying one is for learning to develop mobile apps.  While the Eclipse IDE offers a virtual Android device for testing apps, it's not the same thing as a real Android device and won't put me on the same wavelength as Android device users.  (The most obvious example: Visibility is poorer in a bright outdoor environment than indoors.)

Some questions:
1.  Is a tablet PC the type of device I should get?  I get the impression that it's more versatile than other devices.  I don't need a smartphone, because my dumbphone works well for me, and I don't even use it that much.  And I HATE the idea of being locked into a specific wireless provider.  I'm not interested in ebooks, because I still like books on paper better.
2.  In addition to wifi, what else should I look for?
3.  Are there any brands/models I should avoid?  I remember hearing that the Packard Bell PCs were the most unreliable.  The Yugo was a terrible value.  (An old Oldsmobile Cutlass clunker was a better value - at least as reliable but MUCH cheaper to buy.)

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From jmore at starmind.org  Wed May 23 12:57:06 2012
From: jmore at starmind.org (Josh More)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:57:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3GUt8TPMPBz9iPRo2WjLGLb=vUWLzAcASfgy7eGFbqBNvoGw@mail.gmail.com>

For testing, it shouldn't matter much.  However, you should get BOTH a
phone and a tablet, as they will need to be developed for differently.

Get a device that supports the latest version of Android. The cheaper
tablets at places like Ben's Outlet may not be fully compatible with
Android 4.0.

-Josh

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> I'm in the market for a basic Android device. ?My main reason for buying one is for learning to develop mobile apps. ?While the Eclipse IDE offers a virtual Android device for testing apps, it's not the same thing as a real Android device and won't put me on the same wavelength as Android device users. ?(The most obvious example: Visibility is poorer in a bright outdoor environment than indoors.)
>
> Some questions:
> 1. ?Is a tablet PC the type of device I should get? ?I get the impression that it's more versatile than other devices. ?I don't need a smartphone, because my dumbphone works well for me, and I don't even use it that much. ?And I HATE the idea of being locked into a specific wireless provider. ?I'm not interested in ebooks, because I still like books on paper better.
> 2. ?In addition to wifi, what else should I look for?
> 3. ?Are there any brands/models I should avoid? ?I remember hearing that the Packard Bell PCs were the most unreliable. ?The Yugo was a terrible value. ?(An old Oldsmobile Cutlass clunker was a better value - at least as reliable but MUCH cheaper to buy.)
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed May 23 13:09:38 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:09:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>

If you're just developing for fun, it doesn't matter. Get a Kindle Fire, 
root it and put Ice Cream Sandwich on it and you have a cheap and pretty 
good Android tablet.

If you want to develop seriously, youll need several devices with several 
versions of Android. You probably want a Nexus device since that's the 
closest thing to a 'standard'. And you'll want an unlocked one so you're 
not hindered by carriers.

Can you tell us more about what you're trying to do?

On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> I'm in the market for a basic Android device.  My main reason for buying one is for learning to develop mobile apps.  While the Eclipse IDE offers a virtual Android device for testing apps, it's not the same thing as a real Android device and won't put me on the same wavelength as Android device users.  (The most obvious example: Visibility is poorer in a bright outdoor environment than indoors.)
>
> Some questions:
> 1.  Is a tablet PC the type of device I should get?  I get the impression that it's more versatile than other devices.  I don't need a smartphone, because my dumbphone works well for me, and I don't even use it that much.  And I HATE the idea of being locked into a specific wireless provider.  I'm not interested in ebooks, because I still like books on paper better.
> 2.  In addition to wifi, what else should I look for?
> 3.  Are there any brands/models I should avoid?  I remember hearing that the Packard Bell PCs were the most unreliable.  The Yugo was a terrible value.  (An old Oldsmobile Cutlass clunker was a better value - at least as reliable but MUCH cheaper to buy.)
>
> -- 
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed May 23 13:52:56 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:52:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
Message-ID: <20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>

I'm interested in working as a mobile software developer and having a few simple apps on Google Play to showcase.  I'm looking for a position at a company and am not interested in free-lancing or starting up a company at this time.

I'm looking for something basic to start off with.  If I need multiple devices in order to be a serious developer, I can buy additional Android devices later.

A friend is offering me an HTC Sense for $40.  On Google Shopping, the cheapest tablet PCs sell for $50-$80, and the most expensive ones sell for $500-$800.

On Wed, 23 May 2012 13:09:38 -0500 (CDT)
Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> If you're just developing for fun, it doesn't matter. Get a Kindle Fire, 
> root it and put Ice Cream Sandwich on it and you have a cheap and pretty 
> good Android tablet.
> 
> If you want to develop seriously, youll need several devices with several 
> versions of Android. You probably want a Nexus device since that's the 
> closest thing to a 'standard'. And you'll want an unlocked one so you're 
> not hindered by carriers.
> 
> Can you tell us more about what you're trying to do?
> 
-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed May 23 14:01:06 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:01:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>

On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> A friend is offering me an HTC Sense for $40.  On Google Shopping, the 
> cheapest tablet PCs sell for $50-$80, and the most expensive ones sell 
> for $500-$800.

It is VERY important that you get a device that can run Ice Cream 
Sandwich. Whether it's naturally ICS-capable or through a modded ROM. 
Performance might not be an issue for you, but stability would be, so you 
want something new-ish (older phones have a huge problem with ICS).

I'd suggest a phone rather than a tablet, because then you know you have 
ALL the hardware an Android device can have.

An HTC Sense might be a bit too old for this, but I haven't done a TON of 
research on it.


-Yaron

--

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Wed May 23 14:11:18 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:11:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_thB4nMcFcThH6A3Xg4KLAPYnmLJWVWS=ChZQ_g-ffUAuA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> A friend is offering me an HTC Sense for $40. ?On Google Shopping, the cheapest tablet PCs sell for $50-$80, and the most expensive ones sell for $500-$800.

I'd check into that phone further.  HTC Sense isn't a phone, it's
HTC's UI.  If it's actually a Sensation, that's probably a decent deal
because it's not to old of a phone.  In fact, if it is a Sensation and
you don't want it, send him my way!

I would say look for something that is easily rootable and with a
decent AOSP ROM, or just a Nexus device. (google is your friend, and
pay attention to the carrier, as sometimes the process will be
different for different phones with the same name, such as the Samsung
Galaxy SII)  Also, you may want to develop for a slightly older
version of Android, as I think 2.2 is still a very commonly used
version, and 2.3 is the most common.  4.0 is just a sliver of the
market at this point, so if you develop specifically for 4.0 you're
blocking a significant portion of the market.
Don't believe me:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/3/2922581/android-usage-stats-gingerbread-ice-cream-sandwich
A little bit may have changed in the last 1.5 months, but probably not
TOO much.
- Justin

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed May 23 14:31:03 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:31:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] stop sata selftest
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DTiAa7oGMSg3gexpCi9qw6yG_KmgKJ3Wk1XvuQ-FtaVA@mail.gmail.com>

what would be the proper way under linux to tell a sata drive not to
do it's selftest during idle time?

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed May 23 15:06:59 2012
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:06:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <1337803619.90769.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I was looking to do the same, to play and generate some expertise on a 'droid.? 


I ended up buying an ACER Transformer.? It comes as a standard tablet, or with an additional attachable keyboard, which is really handy when you have fat fingers like mine.? ACER also released a version of ICS, so it looks like their activly developing on it.? Haven't rooted mine yet.

?
I ended up paying ~$700 for both parts.?? The tablet alone was $399 and the keyboard was $299.? 


--- 
Wayne Johnson,????????????             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003????????????             | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis



>________________________________
> From: Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:53 PM
>Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
> 
>I'm in the market for a basic Android device.? My main reason for buying one is for learning to develop mobile apps.? While the Eclipse IDE offers a virtual Android device for testing apps, it's not the same thing as a real Android device and won't put me on the same wavelength as Android device users.? (The most obvious example: Visibility is poorer in a bright outdoor environment than indoors.)
>
>Some questions:
>1.? Is a tablet PC the type of device I should get?? I get the impression that it's more versatile than other devices.? I don't need a smartphone, because my dumbphone works well for me, and I don't even use it that much.? And I HATE the idea of being locked into a specific wireless provider.? I'm not interested in ebooks, because I still like books on paper better.
>2.? In addition to wifi, what else should I look for?
>3.? Are there any brands/models I should avoid?? I remember hearing that the Packard Bell PCs were the most unreliable.? The Yugo was a terrible value.? (An old Oldsmobile Cutlass clunker was a better value - at least as reliable but MUCH cheaper to buy.)
>
>-- 
>Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120523/a4ae26c4/attachment-0001.html>

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed May 23 15:24:24 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:24:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
Message-ID: <20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>

Yaron, how important is it that I develop in Android 4.0?  According to the article Justin cited, most Android users are still using version 2.3.3 or older versions.  At the moment, I'm leaning towards the purchase of an Android 2.3 tablet and waiting until later to buy an Android 4.0 tablet.  Also, the virtual Android handset in Eclipse is slow enough for version 2.1.  Even snails and slugs would complain about the slowness with Android 4.0. 

What hardware does a smartphone offer that a tablet does not?  I already have a dumbphone and TracFone service.  Given that I'm not a heavy user of my cell phone and I can't use a given smartphone with any carrier I please, why should I buy a smartphone?

Yes, it's time for me to stop partying like it's 1999.  I'm now making my move into the 21st century.  :)

On Wed, 23 May 2012 14:01:06 -0500 (CDT)
Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> 
> It is VERY important that you get a device that can run Ice Cream 
> Sandwich. Whether it's naturally ICS-capable or through a modded ROM. 
> Performance might not be an issue for you, but stability would be, so you 
> want something new-ish (older phones have a huge problem with ICS).
> 
> I'd suggest a phone rather than a tablet, because then you know you have 
> ALL the hardware an Android device can have.
> 
> An HTC Sense might be a bit too old for this, but I haven't done a TON of 
> research on it.
> 

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed May 23 16:41:41 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:41:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <1337803619.90769.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<1337803619.90769.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231641170.31911@Dragon>

On Wed, 23 May 2012, Wayne Johnson wrote:

> I ended up buying an ACER Transformer.?

I think you mean ASUS. (:


-Yaron

--

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed May 23 16:55:07 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:55:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>

On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> Yaron, how important is it that I develop in Android 4.0?  According to 
> the article Justin cited, most Android users are still using version 
> 2.3.3 or older versions.

I almost hate to make this analogy, but a few years ago most Windows users 
were still using Windows XP, even though Windows 7 was out. If you were 
just learning to develop for Windows, would you learn to develop for old, 
about to be EOL'd software that's tied to old, about to be obsolete 
hardware, or for Windows 7?

Same with Android. Yeah, a lot of devices haven't updated to 4.0, and a 
lot won't ever. But a lot of those will be unusable soon and people will 
just buy new devices. As time moves on, less and less people will be using 
the old version.

Now if you're a developer you definitely want ALL of them, but why would 
you not start developing for the current stuff? Why learn on old versions? 
Learn what's current!

As a user, Android 4.0 is VASTLY superior to 2.3. Also as a user, you want 
something kinda future-proof. At least I do, which is why I get the 
devices I do.


> Also, the virtual Android handset in Eclipse is slow enough for version 
> 2.1.  Even snails and slugs would complain about the slowness with 
> Android 4.0.

I hesitate to ask if you're running this on under-specced hardware...


> What hardware does a smartphone offer that a tablet does not?

Other than all the phone stuff? (: Again, I'm not thinking as a user, I'm 
thinking as a developer.

Again, it's not really that important, depending on what kind of apps you 
want to develop.



-Yaron

--

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Wed May 23 18:52:09 2012
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231641170.31911@Dragon>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<1337803619.90769.YahooMailNeo@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231641170.31911@Dragon>
Message-ID: <1337817129.34739.YahooMailNeo@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Yea, one of those A words.

?
--- 
Wayne Johnson,????????????             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003????????????             | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis



>________________________________
> From: Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com>
>To: TCLUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
> 
>On Wed, 23 May 2012, Wayne Johnson wrote:
>
>> I ended up buying an ACER Transformer.?
>
>I think you mean ASUS. (:
>
>
>-Yaron
>
>--
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120523/c9bab14e/attachment.html>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Wed May 23 18:53:03 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 18:53:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>
Message-ID: <DCA0190C-C51D-4FFD-9361-67721957B4C0@me.com>

However please make some attempt to keep old versions running. One app on the iOS platform said "stability fixes for iOS 3.x; Upgrade your device already!" but the devices they were supporting couldn't RUN 4.x or higher. Sad. I deleted the program.

That said, every owner of a device (I own 6 things with an Apple on them) should be allowed to hack their devices and run whatever firmware they want to.


On May 23, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Yaron wrote:

> On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:
> 
>> Yaron, how important is it that I develop in Android 4.0?  According to the article Justin cited, most Android users are still using version 2.3.3 or older versions.
> 
> I almost hate to make this analogy, but a few years ago most Windows users were still using Windows XP, even though Windows 7 was out. If you were just learning to develop for Windows, would you learn to develop for old, about to be EOL'd software that's tied to old, about to be obsolete hardware, or for Windows 7?
> 
> Same with Android. Yeah, a lot of devices haven't updated to 4.0, and a lot won't ever. But a lot of those will be unusable soon and people will just buy new devices. As time moves on, less and less people will be using the old version.
> 
> Now if you're a developer you definitely want ALL of them, but why would you not start developing for the current stuff? Why learn on old versions? Learn what's current!
> 
> As a user, Android 4.0 is VASTLY superior to 2.3. Also as a user, you want something kinda future-proof. At least I do, which is why I get the devices I do.
> 
> 
>> Also, the virtual Android handset in Eclipse is slow enough for version 2.1.  Even snails and slugs would complain about the slowness with Android 4.0.
> 
> I hesitate to ask if you're running this on under-specced hardware...
> 
> 
>> What hardware does a smartphone offer that a tablet does not?
> 
> Other than all the phone stuff? (: Again, I'm not thinking as a user, I'm thinking as a developer.
> 
> Again, it's not really that important, depending on what kind of apps you want to develop.
> 
> 
> 
> -Yaron
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From r.hoffbeck at gmail.com  Wed May 23 19:08:41 2012
From: r.hoffbeck at gmail.com (Richard Hoffbeck)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 19:08:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>
Message-ID: <CAGPxQ+2viGmQsBr9E0jryf+5ZeuRN8myBkqJkY9QBOO2Pdd9HA@mail.gmail.com>

That strategy works reasonably well on iOS devices where the adoption rate
of new versions is fairly rapid. I'd have no problem with doing an app that
required 5.0 or above. Android is a different beast with 4.0 just starting
to appear but with something like 100M devices running 2.3 or less.

The OP just wanted something to test on so he could show a potential
employer that he'd worked through the process from start through posting to
the Google store. For that a cheap phone works as well as a new tablet.

--rick

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:
>
>  Yaron, how important is it that I develop in Android 4.0?  According to
>> the article Justin cited, most Android users are still using version 2.3.3
>> or older versions.
>>
>
> I almost hate to make this analogy, but a few years ago most Windows users
> were still using Windows XP, even though Windows 7 was out. If you were
> just learning to develop for Windows, would you learn to develop for old,
> about to be EOL'd software that's tied to old, about to be obsolete
> hardware, or for Windows 7?
>
> Same with Android. Yeah, a lot of devices haven't updated to 4.0, and a
> lot won't ever. But a lot of those will be unusable soon and people will
> just buy new devices. As time moves on, less and less people will be using
> the old version.
>
> Now if you're a developer you definitely want ALL of them, but why would
> you not start developing for the current stuff? Why learn on old versions?
> Learn what's current!
>
> As a user, Android 4.0 is VASTLY superior to 2.3. Also as a user, you want
> something kinda future-proof. At least I do, which is why I get the devices
> I do.
>
>
>  Also, the virtual Android handset in Eclipse is slow enough for version
>> 2.1.  Even snails and slugs would complain about the slowness with Android
>> 4.0.
>>
>
> I hesitate to ask if you're running this on under-specced hardware...
>
>
>  What hardware does a smartphone offer that a tablet does not?
>>
>
> Other than all the phone stuff? (: Again, I'm not thinking as a user, I'm
> thinking as a developer.
>
> Again, it's not really that important, depending on what kind of apps you
> want to develop.
>
>
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>



-- 
*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120523/ca76c8ca/attachment-0001.html>

From ryanjcole at me.com  Wed May 23 22:05:16 2012
From: ryanjcole at me.com (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:05:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <CAGPxQ+2viGmQsBr9E0jryf+5ZeuRN8myBkqJkY9QBOO2Pdd9HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>
	<CAGPxQ+2viGmQsBr9E0jryf+5ZeuRN8myBkqJkY9QBOO2Pdd9HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B856FF5E-A82B-48C8-A4EF-10903EE4E587@me.com>

I don't disagree on the last point. I just hate that Apple forces these things down our throats. And I love my Apple products.


On May 23, 2012, at 7:08 PM, Richard Hoffbeck wrote:

> That strategy works reasonably well on iOS devices where the adoption rate of new versions is fairly rapid. I'd have no problem with doing an app that required 5.0 or above. Android is a different beast with 4.0 just starting to appear but with something like 100M devices running 2.3 or less.
> 
> The OP just wanted something to test on so he could show a potential employer that he'd worked through the process from start through posting to the Google store. For that a cheap phone works as well as a new tablet.


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed May 23 22:23:52 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:23:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <CAGPxQ+2viGmQsBr9E0jryf+5ZeuRN8myBkqJkY9QBOO2Pdd9HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>
	<CAGPxQ+2viGmQsBr9E0jryf+5ZeuRN8myBkqJkY9QBOO2Pdd9HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205232223030.785@Dragon>


On Wed, 23 May 2012, Richard Hoffbeck wrote:

> The OP just wanted something to test on so he could show a potential
> employer that he'd worked through the process from start through posting to
> the Google store. For that a cheap phone works as well as a new tablet.

Yeah, until the employer tries to download it on their Android device to 
see if it actually works...

-Yaron

--

From r.hoffbeck at gmail.com  Wed May 23 22:28:49 2012
From: r.hoffbeck at gmail.com (Richard Hoffbeck)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:28:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205232223030.785@Dragon>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231307230.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523135256.c2e9d8f4dc70202e0d5a4a2c@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231356490.29670@Dragon>
	<20120523152424.c58a1d05e69b756538941eaa@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205231643500.31911@Dragon>
	<CAGPxQ+2viGmQsBr9E0jryf+5ZeuRN8myBkqJkY9QBOO2Pdd9HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205232223030.785@Dragon>
Message-ID: <CAGPxQ+2F1WWOvUUqZLpgV3e3H4GyX907EOqpvQZ-TtQL+2j0bA@mail.gmail.com>

I suspect an app targeted to 2.3 is more likely to run on a 4.0 device than
the other way around :)

--rick
On May 23, 2012 10:24 PM, "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

>
> On Wed, 23 May 2012, Richard Hoffbeck wrote:
>
>  The OP just wanted something to test on so he could show a potential
>> employer that he'd worked through the process from start through posting
>> to
>> the Google store. For that a cheap phone works as well as a new tablet.
>>
>
> Yeah, until the employer tries to download it on their Android device to
> see if it actually works...
>
> -Yaron
>
> --
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120523/64346a9d/attachment.html>

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Wed May 23 22:59:09 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:59:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <20120523225909.01d6d482e8d8e2f8bb98639d@jasonhsu.com>

Thanks for your suggestions.  I have some answers and still some more questions.

Please note that this will only be my first Android device, not my last.

I'll go with Android 2.3.  Most users are still on version 2.3.3 or earlier, and an app designed for Android 2.3 will work better on an Anroid 4.0 device than vice versa.  By the time Android 4.0 takes over, tablets and smartphones should be cheaper and/or much better.

I'm still not clear on why I should buy a smartphone instead of a tablet.  I already have a dumbphone that I'm not even fully utilizing.  

My tentative plan is to buy an Android 2.3 tablet now and buy an Android 4.0 smartphone later on.  I'm sure that by the time Android 4.0 takes over or I outgrow my dumbphone, smartphones will be cheaper and/or much better.

What do you think?

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed May 23 23:09:26 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 23:09:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523225909.01d6d482e8d8e2f8bb98639d@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120523225909.01d6d482e8d8e2f8bb98639d@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205232307470.785@Dragon>

The only reason I suggested a phone is for development. if you don't think 
you'll need one then by all means, don't get one.

I do think that by the time you feel you want ot move to Android 4.0, 4.1 
or 5.0 or whatever the next version is called might be out. You're 
shooting at a moving target which is why I recommend starting at the TOP 
of the queue rather than the bottom.


On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> Thanks for your suggestions.  I have some answers and still some more questions.
>
> Please note that this will only be my first Android device, not my last.
>
> I'll go with Android 2.3.  Most users are still on version 2.3.3 or earlier, and an app designed for Android 2.3 will work better on an Anroid 4.0 device than vice versa.  By the time Android 4.0 takes over, tablets and smartphones should be cheaper and/or much better.
>
> I'm still not clear on why I should buy a smartphone instead of a tablet.  I already have a dumbphone that I'm not even fully utilizing.
>
> My tentative plan is to buy an Android 2.3 tablet now and buy an Android 4.0 smartphone later on.  I'm sure that by the time Android 4.0 takes over or I outgrow my dumbphone, smartphones will be cheaper and/or much better.
>
> What do you think?
>
> -- 
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Thu May 24 10:47:58 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 10:47:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
Message-ID: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>

I was planning to buy one of those cheap <$100 Android tablets on Ebay.  However, I nixed that idea as a result of doing a Google search for "cheap Android tablets on Ebay".  This search revealed complaints about their inferiority - resistive touchscreens or inferior capacitive touchscreens and lack of compatibility with Google Play.

What are the cheapest options (smartphone, tablet, or anything else) for being compatible with Google Play?

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Thu May 24 11:09:34 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 11:09:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_ticOpK=PuuEaF2Md3u6P5F0x=ZkQ+1-8Qsg02BfWDrDng@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> I was planning to buy one of those cheap <$100 Android tablets on Ebay. ?However, I nixed that idea as a result of doing a Google search for "cheap Android tablets on Ebay". ?This search revealed complaints about their inferiority - resistive touchscreens or inferior capacitive touchscreens and lack of compatibility with Google Play.
>
> What are the cheapest options (smartphone, tablet, or anything else) for being compatible with Google Play?

When you buy the super cheap android tablets nobody wins, especially not you.

Yaron mentioned the Kindle Fire, which is $200 new, slightly less used.
I have a Nook Color, which has lower specs, and is starting to show
its age, but is yet a bit cheaper.  Rooting and installing Cyanogenmod
(or whatever you prefer) should be trivial for someone with your
computer experience.

Otherwise, why not that $40 phone from your friend?  Or did it end up
being something pretty old, and not a Sensation?  I've had decent luck
with finding used phones in decent shape on Craigslist.  Just use
something like AndroidCentral to compare phones to see what specs they
have and then poke around Craigslist to see what you find.  I had an
HTC Inspire 4G (which my sister is currently using) and when I bought
it last year, it was at the sweet spot for value for what you pay for
a used phone.  You can probably find something slightly better now as
the best value.

Anything that has decent community support, and a selection of ROMs
available should be able to use Google Play.

From r.hoffbeck at gmail.com  Thu May 24 11:13:57 2012
From: r.hoffbeck at gmail.com (Richard Hoffbeck)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 11:13:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <4FBE5E45.2070701@gmail.com>

I've been having problems with Google Play crashing on my rooted Fire 
with CM9.  I've heard that the CM7 ROM for the Fire is pretty stable and 
you can get a refurb Fire for $169 if you need it now, otherwise they 
occasionally offer them as a deal-of-the-day for $139. I think you can 
find similar deals for the Nook Color and Tablet. I think the refurb 
Nook stuff tends to show up on e-bay rather than at the B&N web site. 
I'd check XDA for specifics on compatibility but my impression is that 
the Nooks tend to be closer to stock Android.

Samsung has a fairly nice 7" tablet that just came out for $250 retail 
that comes with ICS. I know that you're trying to keep costs down but 
there are advantages to something like the Sammy when you're just 
getting started. Then you have a supported release rather than working 
against a ROM that's still in development.

One thing to keep in mind with cheap tablets (including the Nook, Fire 
and Sammy) is that they are missing stuff that might be important if you 
want to include features like GPS, camera, etc.

--rick

On 12-05-24 10:47 AM, Jason Hsu wrote:
> I was planning to buy one of those cheap<$100 Android tablets on Ebay.  However, I nixed that idea as a result of doing a Google search for "cheap Android tablets on Ebay".  This search revealed complaints about their inferiority - resistive touchscreens or inferior capacitive touchscreens and lack of compatibility with Google Play.
>
> What are the cheapest options (smartphone, tablet, or anything else) for being compatible with Google Play?
>


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu May 24 12:22:10 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 12:22:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <4FBE5E45.2070701@gmail.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<4FBE5E45.2070701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205241220580.12193@Dragon>

On Thu, 24 May 2012, Richard Hoffbeck wrote:

> I've been having problems with Google Play crashing on my rooted Fire with 
> CM9.

Works perfectly for me. I'm using the Fire Energy ROM.

> I've heard that the CM7 ROM for the Fire is pretty stable and you can 
> get a refurb Fire for $169 if you need it now, otherwise they 
> occasionally offer them as a deal-of-the-day for $139.

That's what I got (:

Speaking of ease of rooting/installing ROMS - my mom rooted her Fire 
without my help.


-Yaron

--

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu May 24 12:24:40 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 12:24:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205241223520.12193@Dragon>

Oh I have to point this out - if you get a tablet you DEFINITELY want 
Android 4.0 on it. Previous versions are either NOT AT ALL meant for 
tablets, or are 3.0 which even Google acknowledge is terrible.


On Thu, 24 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> I was planning to buy one of those cheap <$100 Android tablets on Ebay.  However, I nixed that idea as a result of doing a Google search for "cheap Android tablets on Ebay".  This search revealed complaints about their inferiority - resistive touchscreens or inferior capacitive touchscreens and lack of compatibility with Google Play.
>
> What are the cheapest options (smartphone, tablet, or anything else) for being compatible with Google Play?
>
> -- 
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--

From cwgriesel at gmail.com  Thu May 24 12:35:18 2012
From: cwgriesel at gmail.com (Curtis Griesel)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 12:35:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAEcQE8O2kMkpy2xzOrFTxd3swcMcjabZcatdoRbZ+OAhFu6M4w@mail.gmail.com>

If you can wait another month or two, Google is supposed to have a 7"
tablet out in July.  I would expect it to meet or beat the price of a $200
Fire or a $250 Galaxy Tab.

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> I was planning to buy one of those cheap <$100 Android tablets on Ebay.
>  However, I nixed that idea as a result of doing a Google search for "cheap
> Android tablets on Ebay".  This search revealed complaints about their
> inferiority - resistive touchscreens or inferior capacitive touchscreens
> and lack of compatibility with Google Play.
>
> What are the cheapest options (smartphone, tablet, or anything else) for
> being compatible with Google Play?
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120524/00b83c14/attachment.html>

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Thu May 24 13:10:46 2012
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 11:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <20120523225909.01d6d482e8d8e2f8bb98639d@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120523225909.01d6d482e8d8e2f8bb98639d@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <1337883046.18331.YahooMailNeo@web162003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I think one of the issues that has been eluded to is that the cheap tablets may not have the hardware devices that the smartphones do.? Things like cameras (both front and read facing), GPS, WiFi, USB device access, flash memory, etc.? If you want to include support for these in the demo app you write, you'll need a device with the hardware.? Part of the sexiness of 'droid are from those capabilities.? In addition, many apps build apon things like the 'droid mapping layer, which pretty much depends on WiFi or Phone Networking.? Ditto with the HTTP scraping/mashing capabilities.? Leaving these off, 'droid is just another Java appliance.

?

--- 
Wayne Johnson,????????????             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003????????????             | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis



>________________________________
> From: Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:59 PM
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
> 
>Thanks for your suggestions.? I have some answers and still some more questions.
>
>Please note that this will only be my first Android device, not my last.
>
>I'll go with Android 2.3.? Most users are still on version 2.3.3 or earlier, and an app designed for Android 2.3 will work better on an Anroid 4.0 device than vice versa.? By the time Android 4.0 takes over, tablets and smartphones should be cheaper and/or much better.
>
>I'm still not clear on why I should buy a smartphone instead of a tablet.? I already have a dumbphone that I'm not even fully utilizing.? 
>
>My tentative plan is to buy an Android 2.3 tablet now and buy an Android 4.0 smartphone later on.? I'm sure that by the time Android 4.0 takes over or I outgrow my dumbphone, smartphones will be cheaper and/or much better.
>
>What do you think?
>
>-- 
>Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120524/d6086cf5/attachment.html>

From wdtj at yahoo.com  Thu May 24 13:19:51 2012
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 11:19:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205232307470.785@Dragon>
References: <20120523125347.1c44287b9826544825de22d4@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120523225909.01d6d482e8d8e2f8bb98639d@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205232307470.785@Dragon>
Message-ID: <1337883591.59933.YahooMailNeo@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I've always found that your app development needs to be on the leading edge of adequacy(tm).? If you need an app that will run on 2.3, build it there.? If your app requires some of the capabilities on 3.0, you need to at least have that.? Any app built for 2.3 will run on 4.0, but WILL NOT run the other way.? The 'droid APIs are layered so that you can always be upwardly compatible, but you can not run an app on an earlier release, 'droid has checks for that.? 


One of the biggest compatibility issues I've run into is the screen sizes vary so much between devices.? There are facilities in 'droid to handle this, but you have to implement them.? I have seen several 'droid apps that were designed to work fine on most small screen phones, but when you run it on a tablet...? well it's not pretty.? This can mostly be tested with the Eclipse emulator though.

?

--- 
Wayne Johnson,????????????             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003????????????             | then,  have it your way." --C.S. Lewis



>________________________________
> From: Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com>
>To: TCLUG <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] WANTED: advice on buying an Android device
> 
>The only reason I suggested a phone is for development. if you don't think 
>you'll need one then by all means, don't get one.
>
>I do think that by the time you feel you want ot move to Android 4.0, 4.1 
>or 5.0 or whatever the next version is called might be out. You're 
>shooting at a moving target which is why I recommend starting at the TOP 
>of the queue rather than the bottom.
>
>
>On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your suggestions.? I have some answers and still some more questions.
>>
>> Please note that this will only be my first Android device, not my last.
>>
>> I'll go with Android 2.3.? Most users are still on version 2.3.3 or earlier, and an app designed for Android 2.3 will work better on an Anroid 4.0 device than vice versa.? By the time Android 4.0 takes over, tablets and smartphones should be cheaper and/or much better.
>>
>> I'm still not clear on why I should buy a smartphone instead of a tablet.? I already have a dumbphone that I'm not even fully utilizing.
>>
>> My tentative plan is to buy an Android 2.3 tablet now and buy an Android 4.0 smartphone later on.? I'm sure that by the time Android 4.0 takes over or I outgrow my dumbphone, smartphones will be cheaper and/or much better.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> -- 
>> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>-Yaron
>
>--
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120524/146bb8b4/attachment-0001.html>

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Fri May 25 01:12:52 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 01:12:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>

I'm looking at Android phones on Ebay.  I've come up with a list of 791 phones (though I can eliminate some off the bat, like the contract deal that the filter missed) and need to narrow down the list further:
http://www.ebay.com/dsc/Cell-Phones-Smartphones-/9355/i.html?Operating%2520System=Android&Contract=Prepaid|Without%2520Contract|%2521&LH_BIN=1&LH_ItemCondition=1000|1500|2000|2500|3000&LH_TitleDesc=1&Brand=Acer|Alcatel|CECT|Fujitsu|HP|HTC|Huawei|Kyocera|LG|Motorola|NEC|Panasonic|Pantech|Samsung|Sharp|Sony%2520Ericsson|Toshiba|ZTE&_nkw=%22Android+2.3%22+wifi&_dmpt=Cell_Phones&rt=nc&LH_RPA=1

Some questions:
1.  What does "wifi enabled" mean?  If this doesn't mean that wifi works right out-of-the-box, what does it take to connect to a wifi network?
2.  Do I need an unlocked phone, or is it enough to avoid deals that require a contract?
3.  What do you think of the Samsung SPH-M820, Motorola Droid 2 A955, and Sony Ericsson XPERIA Play?  These are on Google Play's list of compatible devices and have decent reviews.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri May 25 01:46:01 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 01:46:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>

On Fri, 25 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> 1.  What does "wifi enabled" mean?

Means it has WiFi, but they're not selling you a WiFi network (: You'll be 
able to connect to WiFi networks though.

> 2. Do I need an unlocked phone, or is it enough to avoid deals that 
> require a contract?

Actually there's a bit more to this.

Are you planning on using this phone? With your current provider? If so 
it's VERY important you get a compatible one. A Verizon phone will not 
work with any other provider, for example. That's the case with MOST 
phones except in theory AT&T and T-Mobile, and THEN you need an unlocked 
phone to move networks. So I need to know what you plan on doing and who 
your provider is.

If you're NOT going to use the phone bit, but JUST use WiFi, then you just 
need a no-contract.... in theory. I don't know what kind of requirements 
carriers have put on their phones.


> 3.  What do you think of the Samsung SPH-M820, Motorola Droid 2 A955, 
> and Sony Ericsson XPERIA Play?  These are on Google Play's list of 
> compatible devices and have decent reviews.

I don't know about the Xperia, but the other two are CDMA and I think will 
only work on Verizon. And the Xperia is a... weird game device that's also 
a phone, I'd kinda avoid that for development. I'd guess that the Droid 2 
would be a good phone for development as it was fairly popular.


-Yaron

--

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Fri May 25 08:40:05 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 08:40:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_tjc5HsBhY0zzyv1Py_gT4ejwXK-UdU1tRYQvwJNJLyzXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:
>> 2. Do I need an unlocked phone, or is it enough to avoid deals that
>> require a contract?
>
>
> Actually there's a bit more to this.
>
> Are you planning on using this phone? With your current provider? If so it's
> VERY important you get a compatible one. A Verizon phone will not work with
> any other provider, for example. That's the case with MOST phones except in
> theory AT&T and T-Mobile, and THEN you need an unlocked phone to move
> networks. So I need to know what you plan on doing and who your provider is.
>
> If you're NOT going to use the phone bit, but JUST use WiFi, then you just
> need a no-contract.... in theory. I don't know what kind of requirements
> carriers have put on their phones.

Further clarification regarding AT&T/T-Mobile: they are compatible
voice and EDGE data networks, but their 3G and faux-G networks run on
different frequencies.  Mobile data is painfully slow when using a
phone from one of these networks on the other.  At least by today's
standards.
And don't try to use a smartphone on a network and just turn off
mobile data.  I know for sure AT&T will catch you and start charging
you for data, even if you don't use it, and I'm sure other networks
will do similar.  T-mobile may be your best chance at avoiding such
shenanigans.  They seem to be more easy going about stuff like that.
That said, if you don't want to use it as a phone at all, but as an
Android "iPod touch" you're just fine.  Don't install a SIM card if
it's an AT&T or T-mobile phone, and don't activate it if it's a
Verizon or Sprint phone, and you're fine.
- Justin

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Fri May 25 09:29:51 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 09:29:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <CAC3D_tjc5HsBhY0zzyv1Py_gT4ejwXK-UdU1tRYQvwJNJLyzXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>
	<CAC3D_tjc5HsBhY0zzyv1Py_gT4ejwXK-UdU1tRYQvwJNJLyzXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120525092951.d24142ea0fae86018b01a7bb@jasonhsu.com>

Since I will not use the smartphone as a phone, it sounds like my options are:
1.  Get an unlocked phone.
2.  Get a locked phone, but make sure the SIM card is not installed.
3.  Get a locked phone, but make sure it is not activated.

Correct?

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tlunde at gmail.com  Fri May 25 10:31:35 2012
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:31:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120525092951.d24142ea0fae86018b01a7bb@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>
	<CAC3D_tjc5HsBhY0zzyv1Py_gT4ejwXK-UdU1tRYQvwJNJLyzXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120525092951.d24142ea0fae86018b01a7bb@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <B17B77CF-7F97-4687-A840-06D08446F63D@gmail.com>

Many (Most?  All?) locked phones will not go past an "Insert SIM card" screen until you do so. 

Thomas 

On May 25, 2012, at 9:29 AM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> Since I will not use the smartphone as a phone, it sounds like my options are:
> 1.  Get an unlocked phone.
> 2.  Get a locked phone, but make sure the SIM card is not installed.
> 3.  Get a locked phone, but make sure it is not activated.
> 
> Correct?
> 
> -- 
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Fri May 25 10:39:24 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:39:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <B17B77CF-7F97-4687-A840-06D08446F63D@gmail.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>
	<CAC3D_tjc5HsBhY0zzyv1Py_gT4ejwXK-UdU1tRYQvwJNJLyzXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120525092951.d24142ea0fae86018b01a7bb@jasonhsu.com>
	<B17B77CF-7F97-4687-A840-06D08446F63D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_thL0D4htit7Q+Nza=2kN_ApXbo3oBsLgJsR=9Dg7UKRog@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Thomas Lunde <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:
> Many (Most? ?All?) locked phones will not go past an "Insert SIM card" screen until you do so.

Android phones?  My experience with a handful of HTC devices, and also
Apple devices has been the opposite.  The lack of SIM card only
prevented me from using them as a phone, but nothing else.
- Justin

From justin.kremer at gmail.com  Fri May 25 10:43:14 2012
From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:43:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <CAC3D_thL0D4htit7Q+Nza=2kN_ApXbo3oBsLgJsR=9Dg7UKRog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>
	<CAC3D_tjc5HsBhY0zzyv1Py_gT4ejwXK-UdU1tRYQvwJNJLyzXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120525092951.d24142ea0fae86018b01a7bb@jasonhsu.com>
	<B17B77CF-7F97-4687-A840-06D08446F63D@gmail.com>
	<CAC3D_thL0D4htit7Q+Nza=2kN_ApXbo3oBsLgJsR=9Dg7UKRog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC3D_th3pJ7i5gB+w9_ifXX7o3Qb8_=RP+6AW7om-gUJmgdQnA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Justin Kremer <justin.kremer at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Thomas Lunde <tlunde at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Many (Most? ?All?) locked phones will not go past an "Insert SIM card" screen until you do so.
>
> Android phones? ?My experience with a handful of HTC devices, and also
> Apple devices has been the opposite. ?The lack of SIM card only
> prevented me from using them as a phone, but nothing else.
> - Justin

Sorry, I should clarify...cellular data also does not work in that
case.  No SIM card = no cell network connectivity. (Except E911, I
think)

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri May 25 10:43:49 2012
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:43:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] *Tomorow* Xubuntu (Unbutu w/out Unity!) @Penguins
	Unbound May 26th
Message-ID: <4FBFA8B5.8070509@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday May 26st at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

Xubuntu (Ubuntu without Unity!)

Xubuntu is intended to be a small, lighter Ubuntu. It uses Xfce as the 
the window manager, so you don't use Unity or Gnome 3. It has the look 
and feel of the traditional Linux X interface.

I will show you Xubuntu, and show you some tips and tricks to help you 
play videos and add some extras!

==>brian.


*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri May 25 11:28:53 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:28:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120525092951.d24142ea0fae86018b01a7bb@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525011252.ad80b4b6c1dbd9bf13121281@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1205250138510.19618@Dragon>
	<CAC3D_tjc5HsBhY0zzyv1Py_gT4ejwXK-UdU1tRYQvwJNJLyzXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120525092951.d24142ea0fae86018b01a7bb@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205251126580.28362@Dragon>

That should work. Note that only GSM phones (i.e., AT&T/T-Mobile) use 
SIMs. Also as somsone noted SOME phones might not allow you to operate 
without a SIM. I've very rarely seen this with Android, and never with a 
custom ROM. But it's a possibility.

How cheap can you get a Nexus One for nowadays? I think that would be 
ideal for you since you don't want 4.0.


On Fri, 25 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> Since I will not use the smartphone as a phone, it sounds like my options are:
> 1.  Get an unlocked phone.
> 2.  Get a locked phone, but make sure the SIM card is not installed.
> 3.  Get a locked phone, but make sure it is not activated.
>
> Correct?
>
> -- 
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-Yaron

--

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri May 25 20:00:18 2012
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 20:00:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] glusterfs
Message-ID: <CALpcnoze7epc10X0gUaRFT-CTnOd=rEPPoPX2KrRqK19cMxJQA@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone out there setup glusterfs as a replacement for NFS? In your
experience does it perform better? Have you been able to get submounts to
work? In particular if I export /data and mount a USB drive on /data/usb,
will the client be able to see /data/usb if they just mount /data? I
haven't been able to get this to work with NFS, but it works with cifs.

Thanks.

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120525/cc4c18c7/attachment.html>

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Fri May 25 23:59:46 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 23:59:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <20120525235946.590cfd64512015acee719a09@jasonhsu.com>

Any opinions on the Samsung SPH-M820?  It has 384 MB of RAM, 512 MB of ROM, and an 800 MHz processor.  It starts around $50 used and $120 new.  (I'll have to check carefully if the unit I buy has Android 2.2 or 2.3, as some of the listings show 2.2.)

If the Samsung SPH-M820 doesn't cut the mustard, Plan B is the Motorola Droid 2 A955, which starts around $80 used and $120 new.  It has a 1.2 GHz processor and 512 MB of RAM.

The HTC Google Nexus One units have Android 2.1 on them.

I've eliminated from consideration several models that were getting too many bad reviews on CNet or Amazon, that I was unable to find reviews on, that are on Android 2.2 or earlier, that aren't on Google Play's list of compatible devices, etc.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat May 26 00:05:02 2012
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 00:05:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Cheapest Android device that works with Google Play
In-Reply-To: <20120525235946.590cfd64512015acee719a09@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120524104758.1d0918813b2fa1475379f385@jasonhsu.com>
	<20120525235946.590cfd64512015acee719a09@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1205260003170.5179@Dragon>

On Fri, 25 May 2012, Jason Hsu wrote:

> The HTC Google Nexus One units have Android 2.1 on them.

Unlikely. Nexus One were upgraded over the air to the latest 2.3 release. 
They are also EXTREMELY flexible phones, and you can easily upgrade them 
yourself to either actual Google AOSP ROMs or custom ROMs of whatever 
version you like. They'll even run 4.0, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I actually think a Nexus phone would be ideal for development.


-Yaron

--

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sun May 27 15:58:13 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 15:58:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Missing partitions?
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPkH8-zBazFgaDv53Oj8exGymOoKrAG_Pjv=YctmVdM2FQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm rebuilding one of my servers at home.  I used to have (6) 500GB
SATA drives in this box, however I recently replaced a few now I have
(3) 500G and (3) 2TB drives.  I'm carving up the drives to build RAID
5 partitions across them.  I sliced up the 2TB drives and
/proc/partitions shows:

   8        0  488386584 sda
   8        1   19530752 sda1
   8        2    9765888 sda2
   8        3  459086368 sda3
   8       16  488386584 sdb
   8       17   19535008 sdb1
   8       18    9767520 sdb2
   8       19  459081472 sdb3
   8       32  488386584 sdc
   8       33   19535008 sdc1
   8       34    9767520 sdc2
   8       35  459081472 sdc3
   8       48 1953514584 sdd
   8       49 1953512001 sdd1
   8       64 1953514584 sde
   8       65 1953512001 sde1
   8       80 1953514584 sdf
   8       81 1953512001 sdf1

As it should.  Then I reboot, and /proc/partitions shows:

   8        0  488386584 sda
   8        1   19530752 sda1
   8        2    9765888 sda2
   8        3  459086368 sda3
   8       16  488386584 sdb
   8       17   19535008 sdb1
   8       18    9767520 sdb2
   8       19  459081472 sdb3
   8       48 1953514584 sdd
   8       64 1953514584 sde
   8       32  488386584 sdc
   8       33   19535008 sdc1
   8       34    9767520 sdc2
   8       35  459081472 sdc3
   8       80 1953514584 sdf

Hmm.... where'd the partitions go on sdd, sde, and sdf?  I look for the devices:

# ls /dev/sdd*
/dev/sdd

The kernel is definitely not reading the partitions for some reason.
dmesg shows them, however:

[    1.697846]  sdd1
[    1.700303] sd 3:0:0:0: [sdd] Attached SCSI disk
[    1.705410]  sde1
[    1.705629] sd 4:0:0:0: [sde] Attached SCSI disk
[    1.706191]  sdf1
[    1.706626] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdf] Attached SCSI disk

and the partitions are definitely on disk:

# fdisk -l /dev/sdd

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdd1               1      243201  1953512001   83  Linux

I've never seen this behavior before.  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Brian

From hick0088 at tc.umn.edu  Wed May 30 10:16:16 2012
From: hick0088 at tc.umn.edu (Mike Hicks)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:16:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Missing partitions?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoPkH8-zBazFgaDv53Oj8exGymOoKrAG_Pjv=YctmVdM2FQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3QoPkH8-zBazFgaDv53Oj8exGymOoKrAG_Pjv=YctmVdM2FQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1338390976.30732.53.camel@3po>

On Sun, 2012-05-27 at 15:58 -0500, Brian Wall wrote:
> I'm rebuilding one of my servers at home.  I used to have (6) 500GB
> SATA drives in this box, however I recently replaced a few now I have
> (3) 500G and (3) 2TB drives.
[snip]
>  Then I reboot, and /proc/partitions shows:
> 
>    8        0  488386584 sda
>    8        1   19530752 sda1
>    8        2    9765888 sda2
>    8        3  459086368 sda3
>    8       16  488386584 sdb
>    8       17   19535008 sdb1
>    8       18    9767520 sdb2
>    8       19  459081472 sdb3
>    8       48 1953514584 sdd
>    8       64 1953514584 sde
>    8       32  488386584 sdc
>    8       33   19535008 sdc1
>    8       34    9767520 sdc2
>    8       35  459081472 sdc3
>    8       80 1953514584 sdf
> 
> Hmm.... where'd the partitions go on sdd, sde, and sdf?

I guess my only thought is that those drives are very big, so there
might be some sort of filtering going on which prevents them from being
added.

There's a fairly hard limit for DOS-style partition tables which only
allows them to be 2TB in size.   Those drives are only showing up as
1.9-something TB each, so they should be okay, but you might try
shrinking the partitions slightly to see if they start showing up after
the boot process.

Or try switching to an fdisk tool that produces a GUID partition table
(GPT), which shouldn't have problems with partitions of that size.  It
looks like the tool for that is "gdisk", though I've never used it...

-- 
Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 198 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120530/328c640d/attachment.pgp>

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Wed May 30 22:34:53 2012
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 22:34:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Missing partitions?
In-Reply-To: <1338390976.30732.53.camel@3po>
References: <CAB3QoPkH8-zBazFgaDv53Oj8exGymOoKrAG_Pjv=YctmVdM2FQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1338390976.30732.53.camel@3po>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=aK2vY+Sq6hdwZpysjSZokpQTmEJZ03OSZ=nrv2r3pyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu> wrote:

> Or try switching to an fdisk tool that produces a GUID partition table
> (GPT), which shouldn't have problems with partitions of that size. ?It
> looks like the tool for that is "gdisk", though I've never used it...

That fixed it!!  Switching from MBR to GPT was quick and painless with
gdisk, it re-wrote the partition table and now I have my partitions
persistent after reboot.

a million thanks,
Brian

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Thu May 31 00:51:33 2012
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 00:51:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Does driver support come from packages or the kernel?
Message-ID: <20120531005133.1b1a7a4714a1d78e76a98d3c@jasonhsu.com>

My old antiX-based Swift Linux worked on Windows 98 era computers, but I've been getting complaints that the new Swift Linux (based on Linux Mint Debian Edition) does not work on these old computers.  It's not about RAM or processor speed - it's about driver support.

Is there a way I can provide in the new Mint-based Swift Linux the drivers that make antiX Linux compatible with the Windows 98 era computers?  Or would this require messing around with the kernel?  (I have no idea how to properly do this.)

That said, if I'm forced to choose between supporting Windows XP era computers and supporting Windows 98 era computers, I'm picking the former and ceding the latter to Puppy Linux and antiX Linux.  I don't have the know-how to make Puppy Linux fully compatible with the Debian software repository, and I don't have the know-how to give antiX Linux the superior codec/hardware support of Linux Mint.  Given that Windows XP is already more than 10 years old, I consider the mid-2000s computers to be the future of the lightweight Linux market.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From gm5729 at gmail.com  Thu May 31 02:04:04 2012
From: gm5729 at gmail.com (gk)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 02:04:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Missing partitions?
Message-ID: <CAFxDM3wNcmmvOTmdD-YgfnQ+1KnJj6q8AXy3_d4ruX+PMEZO8Q@mail.gmail.com>

IIRC RAID drives must be the same size and type. If you put a larger
drive in than the old RAID array the new RAID will only build to the
old values.

gk

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 12:00 PM,  <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ? ? ? ?http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ? ? ? ?tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. Re: Missing partitions? (Mike Hicks)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:16:16 -0500
> From: Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Missing partitions?
> Message-ID: <1338390976.30732.53.camel at 3po>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sun, 2012-05-27 at 15:58 -0500, Brian Wall wrote:
>> I'm rebuilding one of my servers at home. ?I used to have (6) 500GB
>> SATA drives in this box, however I recently replaced a few now I have
>> (3) 500G and (3) 2TB drives.
> [snip]
>> ?Then I reboot, and /proc/partitions shows:
>>
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? ?0 ?488386584 sda
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? ?1 ? 19530752 sda1
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? ?2 ? ?9765888 sda2
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? ?3 ?459086368 sda3
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 16 ?488386584 sdb
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 17 ? 19535008 sdb1
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 18 ? ?9767520 sdb2
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 19 ?459081472 sdb3
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 48 1953514584 sdd
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 64 1953514584 sde
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 32 ?488386584 sdc
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 33 ? 19535008 sdc1
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 34 ? ?9767520 sdc2
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 35 ?459081472 sdc3
>> ? ?8 ? ? ? 80 1953514584 sdf
>>
>> Hmm.... where'd the partitions go on sdd, sde, and sdf?
>
> I guess my only thought is that those drives are very big, so there
> might be some sort of filtering going on which prevents them from being
> added.
>
> There's a fairly hard limit for DOS-style partition tables which only
> allows them to be 2TB in size. ? Those drives are only showing up as
> 1.9-something TB each, so they should be okay, but you might try
> shrinking the partitions slightly to see if they start showing up after
> the boot process.
>
> Or try switching to an fdisk tool that produces a GUID partition table
> (GPT), which shouldn't have problems with partitions of that size. ?It
> looks like the tool for that is "gdisk", though I've never used it...
>
> --
> Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: signature.asc
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 198 bytes
> Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
> URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120530/328c640d/attachment-0001.pgp>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 40
> ******************************************



-- 
---
Gregory Key
https://gm5729.wordpress.com/
Please conserve paper and print this email out ONLY if necessary.

From crosenblum at gmail.com  Thu May 31 03:56:00 2012
From: crosenblum at gmail.com (Craig Rosenblum)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 03:56:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Getting apache to work...dumb question in here :)
Message-ID: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>

I've done a lot of work on Apache on windows.

So I just need a few pointer's to help me get going on Linux.

FYI I am running Peppermint OS Two.

Now I already have websites being run locally aka sickbeard, and
couchpotato, so I wasn't 100% sure I needed to install Apache, but I went
ahead and did that.

Now All i want is to setup http://localhost:8082 or any other unused port
number to point to a new folder i have.

I have 3 partitions on my main hard drive, and in one of those partitions
is a www folder, where i plan to keep all centralized websites that i ever
worked on, or plan to work on.

I even install webmin, but I am more than a bit rusty on virtualhost setup.

I really prefer not to have to add folders to /var/www because I want to
keep my linux partition small.

I am planning to work on a new way of doing my web-based media center app,
since I can't play local videos via file:///

Sorry for the long rant...

Any tips to just get localhost working to point to a folder on one of my
partitions?

Do i need to setup any special permissions for that www folder so that it
can be accessed?

Thanks.

Craig
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120531/e4e07514/attachment.html>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu May 31 04:22:58 2012
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 04:22:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Missing partitions?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoP=aK2vY+Sq6hdwZpysjSZokpQTmEJZ03OSZ=nrv2r3pyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3QoPkH8-zBazFgaDv53Oj8exGymOoKrAG_Pjv=YctmVdM2FQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1338390976.30732.53.camel@3po>
	<CAB3QoP=aK2vY+Sq6hdwZpysjSZokpQTmEJZ03OSZ=nrv2r3pyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1205310421010.32131@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 30 May 2012, Brian Wall wrote:

> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Mike Hicks <hick0088 at tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>
>> Or try switching to an fdisk tool that produces a GUID partition table 
>> (GPT), which shouldn't have problems with partitions of that size. ?It 
>> looks like the tool for that is "gdisk", though I've never used it...
>
> That fixed it!!  Switching from MBR to GPT was quick and painless with 
> gdisk, it re-wrote the partition table and now I have my partitions 
> persistent after reboot.


That was the same thing that got me when I went from 2TB HDDs to 3TB HDDs. 
This is going to be happening to a lot of people in the next few years. 
It would be nice if the software (e.g., fdisk) could do a better job of 
explaining why it will fail.

Pay attention to what gk wrote -- he helped me a lot.

Mike

From eng at pinenet.com  Thu May 31 06:52:02 2012
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:52:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Does driver support come from packages or the
	kernel?
In-Reply-To: <20120531005133.1b1a7a4714a1d78e76a98d3c@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20120531005133.1b1a7a4714a1d78e76a98d3c@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <4FC75B62.8020303@pinenet.com>

My experience is hardware drivers are in the kernel. And I agree with 
you that the standard PC design was very good.

I ran into a major problem with the serial port driver. The old standard 
8250 UART driver got redesigned and the new design enabled the FIFO but 
did not properly provide a buffer, so there were consistent over-run 
errors. A patch was suggested, and I recompiled the 2.6 kernel, but 
trying to slim down the new kernel was a real challenge.

And everybody tells you the serial port is obsolete, except all those 
modem control lines are very handy. The PCI bus driver and ACPI driver 
really do a nice job with detection and adding interrupts. But that is 
still Windows 98 era stuff just getting optimized.

In reading some kernel driver maintainers' support replies, it seems 
they think all the new devices everybody is designing should not be in 
the kernel. They expressed that maybe device developers should try 
harder to conform to existing standard drivers. Standard concepts like 
terminals, SCSI, IDE, etc., are command based, not driver based.

Other than USB and some Xwindow stuff it all seems too much. If people 
want music, and video and a barrage of internet advertising perhaps they 
should construct their own OS and leave stable computing alone.

Jason Hsu wrote:
> My old antiX-based Swift Linux worked on Windows 98 era computers, but I've been getting complaints that the new Swift Linux (based on Linux Mint Debian Edition) does not work on these old computers.  It's not about RAM or processor speed - it's about driver support.
>
> Is there a way I can provide in the new Mint-based Swift Linux the drivers that make antiX Linux compatible with the Windows 98 era computers?  Or would this require messing around with the kernel?  (I have no idea how to properly do this.)
>
> That said, if I'm forced to choose between supporting Windows XP era computers and supporting Windows 98 era computers, I'm picking the former and ceding the latter to Puppy Linux and antiX Linux.  I don't have the know-how to make Puppy Linux fully compatible with the Debian software repository, and I don't have the know-how to give antiX Linux the superior codec/hardware support of Linux Mint.  Given that Windows XP is already more than 10 years old, I consider the mid-2000s computers to be the future of the lightweight Linux market.
>

From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu May 31 09:38:46 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 09:38:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Getting apache to work...dumb question in here :)
In-Reply-To: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08r3ccb4zQyB1vYL2mOr9X5pwowMs8gYTEjuGHksZ3HO4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 3:56 AM, Craig Rosenblum <crosenblum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now All i want is to setup http://localhost:8082 or any other unused port
> number to point to a new folder i have.

Okay, so first step there is to get apache to listen on port 8082. To
do that, add the following line to your apache2.conf file:

Listen 8082

Since you're going to be hosting multiple sites, you want to enable
name-based virtual hosting. I'm not certain how your distro does
thing, but it's likely that this is already enabled. You can likely
grep through the stock apache config to find this out:

Assuming that your apache config is in /etc/apache2

$ grep -R -i NameVirtualHost /etc/apache2

You should see a result similar to:

NameVirtualHost *:80

Edit the file that contains that line and add the following:

NameVirtualHost *:8082

Then all you need to do is start adding virtualhosts. How this works
depends on how your distribution organizes things. A quick google
should suffice to figure that out. The short version is that to add,
say, example.com to your apache config, you'll need to add the
following configuration:

<VirtualHost *:8082>
    ServerName example.com
    DocumentRoot /path/to/web/root

    # add the following two lines if you want vhost-specific logging
    ErrorLog /ver/log/apache2/example.com-error
    CustomLog /var/log/apache2/example.com-access combined
</VirtualHost>

Then restart apache, ensure that example.com is pointing to the IP
address of your server and away you go.

If you wanted to add a second virtual host, just add another stanza
like the above, only with different hostname, document root, and
logfile names.

> I have 3 partitions on my main hard drive, and in one of those partitions is
> a www folder, where i plan to keep all centralized websites that i ever
> worked on, or plan to work on.

This doesn't really have any bearing on apache configuration.

> I even install webmin, but I am more than a bit rusty on virtualhost setup.

Nooooooooo! While webmin/cpanel/ispconfig/etc. are very tempting for
new linux admins. You really really don't want to get in the habit of
using them. It's well worth learning how to configure things from the
ground up rather than make yourself beholden to a crutch that does it
for you.

> I really prefer not to have to add folders to /var/www because I want to
> keep my linux partition small.

Not sure what you're getting at here. You're going to have to add
folders as you add additional sites and additional content.

> Do i need to setup any special permissions for that www folder so that it
> can be accessed?

Yes, the files need to be readable by the user that apache is running
as. In debian derivatives, this is typically www-data.

-Erik

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu May 31 22:10:41 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:10:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Getting apache to work...dumb question in here :)
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08r3ccb4zQyB1vYL2mOr9X5pwowMs8gYTEjuGHksZ3HO4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08r3ccb4zQyB1vYL2mOr9X5pwowMs8gYTEjuGHksZ3HO4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE-JxU7sXh1Tuv2qmP8zx8NqknHLNpBXrsJvSLfy4h1uYA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 3:56 AM, Craig Rosenblum <crosenblum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Edit the file that contains that line and add the following:
>
> NameVirtualHost *:8082
>
> Then all you need to do is start adding virtualhosts.
>
> <VirtualHost *:8082>
>    ServerName example.com
>    DocumentRoot /path/to/web/root
>
>    # add the following two lines if you want vhost-specific logging
>    ErrorLog /ver/log/apache2/example.com-error
>    CustomLog /var/log/apache2/example.com-access combined
> </VirtualHost>
>
>
If my memory is working correctly, the argument to VirtualHost must match
the argument to a NameVirtualHost directive.

i.e.: Apache will complain about this (and likely won't work), even though
intuitively you might think it's just fine.

NameVirtualHost 192.168.1.1:8282

<VirtualHost *:8282>
</VirtualHost>

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120531/ee153158/attachment.html>

From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu May 31 22:13:55 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:13:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Getting apache to work...dumb question in here :)
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE-JxU7sXh1Tuv2qmP8zx8NqknHLNpBXrsJvSLfy4h1uYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08r3ccb4zQyB1vYL2mOr9X5pwowMs8gYTEjuGHksZ3HO4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE-JxU7sXh1Tuv2qmP8zx8NqknHLNpBXrsJvSLfy4h1uYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08rY4LiD_W3s0RTMFRzyehDJh2H5sMPvsfNNKsvtZwk=ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
> If my memory is working correctly, the argument to VirtualHost must match
> the argument to a NameVirtualHost directive.

Exactly. Which is why both of those cases in my example code use *:8082.

:)

From nesius at gmail.com  Thu May 31 22:17:29 2012
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:17:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Getting apache to work...dumb question in here :)
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08rY4LiD_W3s0RTMFRzyehDJh2H5sMPvsfNNKsvtZwk=ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08r3ccb4zQyB1vYL2mOr9X5pwowMs8gYTEjuGHksZ3HO4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE-JxU7sXh1Tuv2qmP8zx8NqknHLNpBXrsJvSLfy4h1uYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08rY4LiD_W3s0RTMFRzyehDJh2H5sMPvsfNNKsvtZwk=ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE_QSZT5ENQgBCqaSpzWg89=vMVkNR5myE3x8pNkLpSWBg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If my memory is working correctly, the argument to VirtualHost must match
> > the argument to a NameVirtualHost directive.
>
> Exactly. Which is why both of those cases in my example code use *:8082.
>
> :)


Oh - wasn't correcting you, Erik.  Just giving the original poster a heads
up that those strings must fit up precisely. :)  I've puzzled over
debugging named virtual host configurations where I thought things were
logically the same only to realize they must be lexically identical.

-Rob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120531/edd44487/attachment.html>

From erikerik at gmail.com  Thu May 31 22:20:41 2012
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 22:20:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Getting apache to work...dumb question in here :)
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE_QSZT5ENQgBCqaSpzWg89=vMVkNR5myE3x8pNkLpSWBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08r3ccb4zQyB1vYL2mOr9X5pwowMs8gYTEjuGHksZ3HO4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE-JxU7sXh1Tuv2qmP8zx8NqknHLNpBXrsJvSLfy4h1uYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08rY4LiD_W3s0RTMFRzyehDJh2H5sMPvsfNNKsvtZwk=ag@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_QSZT5ENQgBCqaSpzWg89=vMVkNR5myE3x8pNkLpSWBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08rmtzzH71Xkx+jU73Af7Sn+i4iuZkd9qwAwzYuv+5xdrw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh - wasn't correcting you, Erik. ?Just giving the original poster a heads
> up that those strings must fit up precisely.

Got it. Nevermind then. :)

You're right, though, and I learned this the hard way early on in my
love/hate relationship with apache as well.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu May 31 23:12:33 2012
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 23:12:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Getting apache to work...dumb question in here :)
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BuM-+8gZiRWkyjiceit7wAZaT9-4gRLpVPb504jOZaLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP3k0vkztvSXyxOBcS-TjM4ne=zkEkn6hVfxzBFXAoRfDjKqNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08r3ccb4zQyB1vYL2mOr9X5pwowMs8gYTEjuGHksZ3HO4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BuM-+8gZiRWkyjiceit7wAZaT9-4gRLpVPb504jOZaLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AEqpxm7rx6aFLQBQixX3JkQQksB-h1cHu=fkzNWFVrdg@mail.gmail.com>

easier than NameVirtualHost:  VirtualDocumentRoot
eg:
#dynamic virtual hosts, see
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/vhosts/mass.html
#                     and
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_vhost_alias.html
#include the server name in the filenames used to satisfy requests
VirtualDocumentRoot /web/%-2.0.%-1/pub
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20120531/7253dd51/attachment.html>