From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  1 13:19:01 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 18:19:01 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Robert Nesius writes:
> Multiple Makefiles not strictly needed though that can work.  I think
> multiple targets in the makefile would maybe be more handy.
>
> all: static shared
>
> static:
>    Compile source files with static flags - object files as .o
>    link with static flags (generate the .a or whatever)
>
> shared:
>    Compile source files with shared flags - object files as .so?
>    Link with shared flags - generate the .so
>
> I was going to do an experiment to see if you could compile with source
> files with -fPIC and then link statically. While addresses have to be
> position independent in a shared object and statically linked code does
not
> need to be position independent, I'm not sure that implies addresses in a
> static lib CAN'T be position independent.

Sorry, I should have added that I have it building both libraries
using files that were compiled using fpic.  It seems to work fine,
but I noticed that one of my executables is 1.5% bigger and
another is 3.3% bigger when they are linked with the static library
built from files that were compiled with fpic.  I've put a lot of work
into making the executables lean and want to preserve that here.
(I'm not sure I need a shared library, but it seems to make some
sense in my "data center" where I have multiple instances of
the back tier running.  The other two programs I mentioned are
the middle and front tiers.  I expect to continue to build those
using  the static library.)

>
> It's been awhile since I've built something from source. I think I'm
> remembering for most libraries I built, asking for shared and static libs
> resulted in all object files being compiled with flags appropriate for
> shared libs and then two separate links at the end to create the .a and
> .so.
>
> I'd recommend downloading zlib or some other small library and configure
it
> to compile both shared and static.  Log the build and then see how they
> handled it. I'm guessing there's some useful stuff in their autoconf setup
> you could swipe?  If you're not using autoconf you could look at their
> generated Makefiles for ideas...

I haven't been using autoconf.  I have a hand written makefile.   Someone
suggested looking into libtool.


-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - go Twins.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From joel.longanecker at gmail.com  Mon Apr  1 13:37:57 2013
From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:37:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>

I can't stand Make. I started writing python scripts to build my C/C++.

Now I can make more complicated build scripts, including shell calls to
dpkg for dependency management. (You can also do this in make, but it is
absolutely horrible to try and do so.)


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Robert Nesius writes:
> > Multiple Makefiles not strictly needed though that can work.  I think
> > multiple targets in the makefile would maybe be more handy.
> >
> > all: static shared
> >
> > static:
> >    Compile source files with static flags - object files as .o
> >    link with static flags (generate the .a or whatever)
> >
> > shared:
> >    Compile source files with shared flags - object files as .so?
> >    Link with shared flags - generate the .so
> >
> > I was going to do an experiment to see if you could compile with source
> > files with -fPIC and then link statically. While addresses have to be
> > position independent in a shared object and statically linked code does
> not
> > need to be position independent, I'm not sure that implies addresses in a
> > static lib CAN'T be position independent.
>
> Sorry, I should have added that I have it building both libraries
> using files that were compiled using fpic.  It seems to work fine,
> but I noticed that one of my executables is 1.5% bigger and
> another is 3.3% bigger when they are linked with the static library
> built from files that were compiled with fpic.  I've put a lot of work
> into making the executables lean and want to preserve that here.
> (I'm not sure I need a shared library, but it seems to make some
> sense in my "data center" where I have multiple instances of
> the back tier running.  The other two programs I mentioned are
> the middle and front tiers.  I expect to continue to build those
> using  the static library.)
>
> >
> > It's been awhile since I've built something from source. I think I'm
> > remembering for most libraries I built, asking for shared and static libs
> > resulted in all object files being compiled with flags appropriate for
> > shared libs and then two separate links at the end to create the .a and
> > .so.
> >
> > I'd recommend downloading zlib or some other small library and configure
> it
> > to compile both shared and static.  Log the build and then see how they
> > handled it. I'm guessing there's some useful stuff in their autoconf
> setup
> > you could swipe?  If you're not using autoconf you could look at their
> > generated Makefiles for ideas...
>
> I haven't been using autoconf.  I have a hand written makefile.   Someone
> suggested looking into libtool.
>
>
> --
> Brian Wood
> Ebenezer Enterprises - go Twins.
> http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From nesius at gmail.com  Mon Apr  1 14:44:04 2013
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 14:44:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FC65D494-B50C-4A0A-BFA9-41DC0556325D@gmail.com>

If you use the autotools ( autoconf ) it will generate makefiles that link with libtool by default.  

As noted there are alternatives to make such as ant, rake. and more...  

I'd suggest trying autoconf first.  Good luck with whatever you choose.  

-Rob

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 1, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Joel Longanecker <joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can't stand Make. I started writing python scripts to build my C/C++.
> 
> Now I can make more complicated build scripts, including shell calls to dpkg for dependency management. (You can also do this in make, but it is absolutely horrible to try and do so.)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Robert Nesius writes:
>> > Multiple Makefiles not strictly needed though that can work.  I think
>> > multiple targets in the makefile would maybe be more handy.
>> >
>> > all: static shared
>> >
>> > static:
>> >    Compile source files with static flags - object files as .o
>> >    link with static flags (generate the .a or whatever)
>> >
>> > shared:
>> >    Compile source files with shared flags - object files as .so?
>> >    Link with shared flags - generate the .so
>> >
>> > I was going to do an experiment to see if you could compile with source
>> > files with -fPIC and then link statically. While addresses have to be
>> > position independent in a shared object and statically linked code does not
>> > need to be position independent, I'm not sure that implies addresses in a
>> > static lib CAN'T be position independent.
>> 
>> Sorry, I should have added that I have it building both libraries 
>> using files that were compiled using fpic.  It seems to work fine, 
>> but I noticed that one of my executables is 1.5% bigger and 
>> another is 3.3% bigger when they are linked with the static library 
>> built from files that were compiled with fpic.  I've put a lot of work 
>> into making the executables lean and want to preserve that here.
>> (I'm not sure I need a shared library, but it seems to make some
>> sense in my "data center" where I have multiple instances of 
>> the back tier running.  The other two programs I mentioned are 
>> the middle and front tiers.  I expect to continue to build those
>> using  the static library.)
>> 
>> >
>> > It's been awhile since I've built something from source. I think I'm
>> > remembering for most libraries I built, asking for shared and static libs
>> > resulted in all object files being compiled with flags appropriate for
>> > shared libs and then two separate links at the end to create the .a and
>> > .so.
>> >
>> > I'd recommend downloading zlib or some other small library and configure it
>> > to compile both shared and static.  Log the build and then see how they
>> > handled it. I'm guessing there's some useful stuff in their autoconf setup
>> > you could swipe?  If you're not using autoconf you could look at their
>> > generated Makefiles for ideas...
>> 
>> I haven't been using autoconf.  I have a hand written makefile.   Someone 
>> suggested looking into libtool. 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Brian Wood
>> Ebenezer Enterprises - go Twins.
>> http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From nota12b at me.com  Mon Apr  1 17:09:43 2013
From: nota12b at me.com (Wil Pike)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:09:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free to a good home...
Message-ID: <FD084064-5F45-4D01-9753-5E8A797E7E85@me.com>

5 home built PCs all setup with XP. All include working cd drive, DVD drives, enough RAM to run the machines, working hard drives of various sizes, and floppy drives (to date the machines).

Also a massive amount of wiring, cables, etc. including spider-design KVM hub for up to 4 machines with all the cables to run them all. Keyboards, rodents, extra floppy drives, cd drives, memory, printer or two, scanner, etc (yeah, it's a BIG box)

2 2year old Dell desktops (3.2 GHtz range, but single processors). Both have dead PATA drives. 

Toshiba laptop 2.8 GHtz Celeron processor, broken hinge - still attached but won't stay up. Has issues, but I think it could be salvaged...?

5 CRT monitors, from 17-21" size. 

Built my own for years. Switched to Mac about 6 years ago, and replaced all 'that time' with an 8yo and a 3 yo - need the basement back!

Any all this stuff is free - if you can find value in it and want to donate to the home brew beer fund you're welcome to do so, but under no obligation!

Also, 14" iBook, 1.25 G RAM, 1.0 GHtz speed. Runs fine, just taking up space - make an offer. I'll take them for a thru 4/15 and high bidder gets it.

I'd rather all this went to somebody to use than simply turn over to recycling...

Wil
nota12b at mac.com
612.368.8767



Sent from my iPad

From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Mon Apr  1 19:58:54 2013
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 19:58:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free to a good home...
In-Reply-To: <FD084064-5F45-4D01-9753-5E8A797E7E85@me.com>
References: <FD084064-5F45-4D01-9753-5E8A797E7E85@me.com>
Message-ID: <20130401195854.0d932ccb@Newton>

> 5 home built PCs all setup with XP. All include working cd drive, DVD
> drives, enough RAM to run the machines, working hard drives of
> various sizes, and floppy drives (to date the machines).

> 2 2year old Dell desktops (3.2 GHtz range, but single processors).
> Both have dead PATA drives. 

> Toshiba laptop 2.8 GHtz Celeron processor, broken hinge - still
> attached but won't stay up. Has issues, but I think it could be
> salvaged...?

Those are computers that someone could actually be productive on,
especially with a lightweight GNU/Linux installation.  I wonder if
there's any way to get them to low income students in the Twin Cities
area.  Does someone know if anyone around here is doing something like
Ken Starks is doing with Reglue/Komputers4Kids/Helios-Project?

-Max

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Mon Apr  1 20:57:13 2013
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:57:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free to a good home...
In-Reply-To: <20130401195854.0d932ccb@Newton>
References: <FD084064-5F45-4D01-9753-5E8A797E7E85@me.com>
	<20130401195854.0d932ccb@Newton>
Message-ID: <20130401205713.5790d5aa570c25968a86c01c@jasonhsu.com>

http://freegeektwincities.org/

> 
> Those are computers that someone could actually be productive on,
> especially with a lightweight GNU/Linux installation.  I wonder if
> there's any way to get them to low income students in the Twin Cities
> area.  Does someone know if anyone around here is doing something like
> Ken Starks is doing with Reglue/Komputers4Kids/Helios-Project?
> 

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From florin at iucha.net  Mon Apr  1 23:35:11 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 23:35:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>

On Mon, Apr 01, 2013 at 01:37:57PM -0500, Joel Longanecker wrote:
> I can't stand Make. I started writing python scripts to build my C/C++.

Careful - you'll probably end up reimplementing most of make.  I'm not
sure switching the make quirks for your own is worth chasing your own
bugs in both the source and the build tool, but as long as you enjoy
it, have at it.

The fact that there are so many build systems out there should tell
you something.  There are plenty of smart and enthusiastic folks that
think they can make a rounder wheel.  Then they realize that there are
all this corner cases that need to be taken care of.  Then they move
on...

I have seen this guy present his new make replacement at ESC 2011:

   http://www.embedded.com/design/programming-languages-and-tools/4228095/Beyond-MakeFles---Building-large-scale-C-projects--ESC-200-

... and it was a disaster.  Read for yourself...

Now, autoconf and libtool are abominations that should have been
slowly reduced in scope over time, as the other Unices died off, and
we are left only with GNU/Linux, BSDs and to some extent Solaris and
AIX.  All of them support POSIX and SUSv3, all of them have C99
compilers - the proprietary compilers are implementing gcc
compatibility layers (see icc and suncc).  There is no need for that
madness anymore.  Use pkgconfig to query what libraries are available,
ask the user to select the options by editing a simple text file
instead of passing a bajilion '--enable-foo', '--with-more-bar' on the
configure command line.

> Now I can make more complicated build scripts, including shell calls to
> dpkg for dependency management. (You can also do this in make, but it is
> absolutely horrible to try and do so.)

Have you tried scons?

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From nesius at gmail.com  Tue Apr  2 00:33:22 2013
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 00:33:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE_JbDvGNb3tcXmoJx-WAfjq4ig215ZHsz3z+OPfu3C6FQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 01, 2013 at 01:37:57PM -0500, Joel Longanecker wrote:
>
> Now, autoconf and libtool are abominations that should have been
> slowly reduced in scope over time, as the other Unices died off, and
> we are left only with GNU/Linux, BSDs and to some extent Solaris and
> AIX.  All of them support POSIX and SUSv3, all of them have C99
> compilers - the proprietary compilers are implementing gcc
> compatibility layers (see icc and suncc).  There is no need for that
> madness anymore.  Use pkgconfig to query what libraries are available,
> ask the user to select the options by editing a simple text file
> instead of passing a bajilion '--enable-foo', '--with-more-bar' on the
> configure command line.
>

Having debugged libtool scripts in the depths of some gnarly builds I
definitely agree libtool is an abomination! On the flip side, having had to
maintain over a few hundred libraries and tools across multiple flavors of
unix and Linux I came to appreciate consistency.  Autotools had its
flaws, but it was nice for the builds to share conventions. As other build
systems came into play it became inconvenient as a maintainer to have
to figure out how each one did its magic and how to get it to do something
beyond defaults (send in specific paths, install locations, etc...).

But the maintainers aren't the only users - there's something to be said
for ease of configuration. Autotools isn't awful but I'm sure there's
something
cleaner.

Even so, I remember what a breath of fresh air it was when X11 moved
from xmkmf to autoconf - I sure don't miss IMAKEFILEs.


>
> > Now I can make more complicated build scripts, including shell calls to
> > dpkg for dependency management. (You can also do this in make, but it is
> > absolutely horrible to try and do so.)
>
> Have you tried scons?
>

I'd forgotten about that one.

-Rob
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From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Tue Apr  2 07:05:44 2013
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 07:05:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free to a good home...
In-Reply-To: <20130401205713.5790d5aa570c25968a86c01c@jasonhsu.com>
References: <FD084064-5F45-4D01-9753-5E8A797E7E85@me.com>
	<20130401195854.0d932ccb@Newton>
	<20130401205713.5790d5aa570c25968a86c01c@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <20130402070544.2ccb6eeb@Newton>

> > Does someone know if anyone around here is doing
> > something like Ken Starks is doing with
> > Reglue/Komputers4Kids/Helios-Project?
> 
> http://freegeektwincities.org/

I was under the impression that FreeGeek's purpose was reducing waste
rather than distributing computers to low-income students.  Don't they
give their refurbished computers to their volunteers and sell them at
their thrift store instead?

-Max

From chrome at real-time.com  Tue Apr  2 07:44:01 2013
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 08:44:01 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <20130402124401.GM481@real-time.com>

On 04/01 11:35 , Florin Iucha wrote:
> I have seen this guy present his new make replacement at ESC 2011:
> 
>    http://www.embedded.com/design/programming-languages-and-tools/4228095/Beyond-MakeFles---Building-large-scale-C-projects--ESC-200-
> 
> ... and it was a disaster.  Read for yourself...


That's a good article, thanks for posting it.
However I'm not clear on what this guy's make-replacement was, or how it was
a disaster. Could you clarify?

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From florin at iucha.net  Tue Apr  2 08:22:05 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 08:22:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <20130402124401.GM481@real-time.com>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
	<20130402124401.GM481@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20130402132205.GW19193@signbit.net>

On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 08:44:01AM -0400, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote:
> On 04/01 11:35 , Florin Iucha wrote:
> > I have seen this guy present his new make replacement at ESC 2011:
> > 
> >    http://www.embedded.com/design/programming-languages-and-tools/4228095/Beyond-MakeFles---Building-large-scale-C-projects--ESC-200-
> > 
> > ... and it was a disaster.  Read for yourself...
> 
> 
> That's a good article, thanks for posting it.
> However I'm not clear on what this guy's make-replacement was, or how it was
> a disaster. Could you clarify?

The name of the tool was 'tup'.

The main disaster of his idea is that he can establish the build
correctness without loading the entire dependency graph into the
memory, just by checking the file stamps.  It sort of works if you
just build only one binary out of of a bunch of files, but if you
produce multiple binaries that share an object file, then it breaks
down.

Also the tool has built-in knowledge that all object files are
produced by the build and it saves you from having to write the
'clean' rule.  Wonderful.  What about vendor-supplied object files?
Yes, not libraries, object files... they do exist.  His tool will
blissfully delete them.

The main thrust of his article and presentation was "look how fast my
tool is on this edge case."  No mention of correctness at all.

Make has some syntax warts, but then everything that survives for
thirty years is bound to have some.  What it gives it the staying
power is that it is an rule-driven expert system configured through
a functional programming language.

The rule driven expert system simply says that 'if you need X and have
Y, this is how you get X from Y.'  Of course, wrapped in the temporal
dependency (if you have the rule mentioned above and Y is newer than
X, rebuild X).

The functional programming language aspect is visible in the
immutability of the variable assignments with respect to execution of
the rules.  Yes, you can append to CFLAGS, but once you start executing
the rules, the CFLAGS (global) is immutable. Second, it is visible in
the way data is processed for targets.

Here is a snippet from one of my standard makefiles:

   SOURCES=$(wildcard *.c)
   OBJECTS=$(SOURCES:.c=.o)
   DEPS=$(SOURCES:.c=.d)

   ...

   clean:
      @$(RM) $(OBJECTS) $(TARGETS) $(DEPS) ...

You don't go iterating over C files, to count them.  Or go looping
over each C file replacing the extension one by one.  Make was the
original DSL (domain specific language).  That topic is 'hot' again.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From tclug at beitsahour.net  Tue Apr  2 09:45:40 2013
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 09:45:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free to a good home...
In-Reply-To: <20130402070544.2ccb6eeb@Newton>
References: <FD084064-5F45-4D01-9753-5E8A797E7E85@me.com>
	<20130401195854.0d932ccb@Newton>
	<20130401205713.5790d5aa570c25968a86c01c@jasonhsu.com>
	<20130402070544.2ccb6eeb@Newton>
Message-ID: <CAMg8xavrrsb_Ci5oPtfc8NAkgAB6MKZNEpbLFuh0rAn48-+Mow@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Max Shinn <max at bernsteinforpresident.com> wrote:

> I was under the impression that FreeGeek's purpose was reducing waste
> rather than distributing computers to low-income students.  Don't they
> give their refurbished computers to their volunteers and sell them at
> their thrift store instead?

not quite, volunteers that volunteer 24 hours of their time get a $40
credit at the thrift store, which is sufficient for a basic
workstation($25) and then some or applied towards a higher end
workstation.

Free Geek Twin Cities' purpose is threefold, 1. to reuse
electronics(computer specifically), 2. to reduce e-waste by
responsibly recycling electronics(not computers specifically) that
cannot be reasonably reused and 3. to work to bridge the digital
divide and increase computer literacy.

as part of 3. FGTC will donate workstations to organizations that work
to increase digital literacy(admittedly a very broad scope). It is
true that FGTC does not directly donate computers to individuals, the
nominal cost FGTC charges at the thrift store goes to cover the
operating costs of the organization. Computers need power to run,
buildings need heating/cooling, internet access is needed to install
and update and OS and none of this is cheap.

and yes, I volunteer at Free Geek Twin Cities.

From chrome at real-time.com  Tue Apr  2 10:00:11 2013
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 11:00:11 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <20130402132205.GW19193@signbit.net>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
	<20130402124401.GM481@real-time.com>
	<20130402132205.GW19193@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <20130402150011.GN481@real-time.com>

On 04/02 08:22 , Florin Iucha wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 08:44:01AM -0400, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote:
> > On 04/01 11:35 , Florin Iucha wrote:
> > > I have seen this guy present his new make replacement at ESC 2011:
> > > 
> > >    http://www.embedded.com/design/programming-languages-and-tools/4228095/Beyond-MakeFles---Building-large-scale-C-projects--ESC-200-
> > > 
> > > ... and it was a disaster.  Read for yourself...
> > 
> > That's a good article, thanks for posting it.
> > However I'm not clear on what this guy's make-replacement was, or how it was
> > a disaster. Could you clarify?
> 
> The name of the tool was 'tup'.

Ah, ok. It wasn't clear to me that 'tup' was *his* tool.

> The main disaster of his idea is that he can establish the build
> correctness without loading the entire dependency graph into the
> memory, just by checking the file stamps.  It sort of works if you
> just build only one binary out of of a bunch of files, but if you
> produce multiple binaries that share an object file, then it breaks
> down.

Ok. I think I see what you mean.

Also, good point about deleting object files.

Perhaps he'll add some 'warts' to tup to deal with those cases. ;)

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From joel.longanecker at gmail.com  Tue Apr  2 10:10:43 2013
From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 10:10:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
References: <CABWFOjtjHjMArFAxbOx1QThiH_s-=Ca9fEuzQDfOSB5zSYGO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOusT-9Li0gbKgmWXwDsJpWNvJzWYuD8_o1M6JLQxwSOb41cQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130402043511.GU19193@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <CAOusT-8-RNbs7LC9TS-bWMFHABTsbYEMdYnv5dV9F8HKcUSLMw@mail.gmail.com>

Scons is just another dependency.
On Apr 1, 2013 11:35 PM, "Florin Iucha" <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 01, 2013 at 01:37:57PM -0500, Joel Longanecker wrote:
> > I can't stand Make. I started writing python scripts to build my C/C++.
>
> Careful - you'll probably end up reimplementing most of make.  I'm not
> sure switching the make quirks for your own is worth chasing your own
> bugs in both the source and the build tool, but as long as you enjoy
> it, have at it.
>
> The fact that there are so many build systems out there should tell
> you something.  There are plenty of smart and enthusiastic folks that
> think they can make a rounder wheel.  Then they realize that there are
> all this corner cases that need to be taken care of.  Then they move
> on...
>
> I have seen this guy present his new make replacement at ESC 2011:
>
>
> http://www.embedded.com/design/programming-languages-and-tools/4228095/Beyond-MakeFles---Building-large-scale-C-projects--ESC-200-
>
> ... and it was a disaster.  Read for yourself...
>
> Now, autoconf and libtool are abominations that should have been
> slowly reduced in scope over time, as the other Unices died off, and
> we are left only with GNU/Linux, BSDs and to some extent Solaris and
> AIX.  All of them support POSIX and SUSv3, all of them have C99
> compilers - the proprietary compilers are implementing gcc
> compatibility layers (see icc and suncc).  There is no need for that
> madness anymore.  Use pkgconfig to query what libraries are available,
> ask the user to select the options by editing a simple text file
> instead of passing a bajilion '--enable-foo', '--with-more-bar' on the
> configure command line.
>
> > Now I can make more complicated build scripts, including shell calls to
> > dpkg for dependency management. (You can also do this in make, but it is
> > absolutely horrible to try and do so.)
>
> Have you tried scons?
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> --
> Sent from my other microwave oven.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlFaX/8ACgkQTnmMTLK0CAht0ACdFUi2s+pAbYUtgZjd41Zg4uyH
> 5zcAnAq7g6vRN9FG5d7bgRpd7RiFUD5W
> =i1lG
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From n0nas at amsat.org  Tue Apr  2 10:14:14 2013
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 10:14:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Free to a good home...
Message-ID: <CAL+RLOQeXdYqLzqtA1yLsFNY8-ngLFHX_s-+uZSUKsS2=NgyLQ@mail.gmail.com>

<http://www.pcsforpeople.com/index.php>
This group is oriented to giving computers to low-income families, not
specifically to students.

Doug.

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  2 19:31:49 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 19:31:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
Message-ID: <CABWFOjt2sXFVv8tr9shF3-dyGOPOTSFgDhWak66_E6FVGVkEoA@mail.gmail.com>

Florin Iucha writes:

> Why is that a requirement?  Can that one master makefile call two
> other makefiles, one that produces the static library and the other
> that produces the shared libary?  Or it might be even the same slave
> makefile, that is called with different arguments (to insert fpic on
> the compiler command line, for instance).

Good question.  I was thinking I'd build one of the
libs and remove the object files and then rebuild them.
I added a subdirectory and it looks like that will work.

Before I did that I looked at autoconf and automake
again.  I think there's kind of an impedance mismatch
for what I'm working on and those tools.  Most of the
code I'm working on is in the back tier which users
don't have to build.  The library and two executables
that users are expected to build are all in one directory.
(I'm not sure I'll export the new directory I added for
the shared library since I'm not sure if anyone besides
me wants that.)   So I think my need for something
like autoconf is small.  Probably what I should do is
port the makefile to Solaris or another platform and
include that new makefile in the distribution.



-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - so far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Apr  3 08:14:13 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 09:14:13 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>

anyone know a command to show the environment (excluding non-environment
variables)?
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Apr  3 08:16:43 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:16:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2vvvbkMw-3ixcdJCJm9Ntz44Q+gro3k1t0CpeKFiC6FA@mail.gmail.com>

env and set commands should suffice.
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:14 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> anyone know a command to show the environment (excluding non-environment
> variables)?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Apr  3 08:16:59 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:16:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1304030816480.6285@dragon>

You mean env or printenv?

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, gregrwm wrote:

> anyone know a command to show the environment (excluding non-environment
> variables)?
> 
>



--

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Apr  3 08:32:44 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:32:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1304030816480.6285@dragon>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1304030816480.6285@dragon>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO1c1GYRMrJdH9chJKUBH7QyYjE971h=qPhMoi8_mcf-pQ@mail.gmail.com>

printenv, correct.

Linux, always more than one way to skin cat :)
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> You mean env or printenv?
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, gregrwm wrote:
>
>> anyone know a command to show the environment (excluding non-environment
>> variables)?
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Apr  3 10:58:08 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 11:58:08 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO2vvvbkMw-3ixcdJCJm9Ntz44Q+gro3k1t0CpeKFiC6FA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2vvvbkMw-3ixcdJCJm9Ntz44Q+gro3k1t0CpeKFiC6FA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CuUTwf+s-K+LLC18s-okob-1Yr7RgvNN5ZPHnKr2+c8g@mail.gmail.com>

>
> env
>

ty!
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From gsker at skerbitz.org  Wed Apr  3 18:28:35 2013
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 18:28:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CuUTwf+s-K+LLC18s-okob-1Yr7RgvNN5ZPHnKr2+c8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2vvvbkMw-3ixcdJCJm9Ntz44Q+gro3k1t0CpeKFiC6FA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CuUTwf+s-K+LLC18s-okob-1Yr7RgvNN5ZPHnKr2+c8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1304031827570.31076@veeta>


strings /proc/$$/environ

:-)

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, gregrwm wrote:

>       env
> 
> 
> ty!
> 
>

-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org
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_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Apr  3 19:06:25 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 19:06:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1304031827570.31076@veeta>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2vvvbkMw-3ixcdJCJm9Ntz44Q+gro3k1t0CpeKFiC6FA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CuUTwf+s-K+LLC18s-okob-1Yr7RgvNN5ZPHnKr2+c8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1304031827570.31076@veeta>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO1cUGsY14ORF5YapQM2jB3Cp_yqvE_e+XKvPH6O7C0_yA@mail.gmail.com>

> strings /proc/$$/environ

That's a new one for me :-)

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Gerry <gsker at skerbitz.org> wrote:
>
> strings /proc/$$/environ
>
> :-)
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, gregrwm wrote:
>
>>       env
>>
>>
>> ty!
>>
>>
>
> --
> Gerry Skerbitz
> gsker at skerbitz.org
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Apr  3 23:43:55 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 00:43:55 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] something like fsck -c but this is lvm on top of raid1
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>

i routinely specify errors=remount-ro for all mountpoints in fstab.  well
i'm guessing it must've finally actually just happened.  i got a few rsync
command errors like

rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/nagios/spool/checkresults/.checkzXAdNO.u4thPb"
failed: Read-only file system (30)
rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/nagios/spool/checkresults/.checkzfSgt2.TEekFF"
failed: Read-only file system (30)
rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/run/.utmp.rddpv9" failed: Read-only file system
(30)

so i check /proc/mounts and whaddyaknow it's mysteriously become readonly.
but i'm very surprised to find nothing unusual in /var/log/messages.  and
/proc/mdstat is all UU's.

i was just about to migrate containers onto this box.  it was fine last
week.  well heck, better run some tests instead i guess.  but what?  if it
wasn't raid1/lvm, i'd run fsck -c, but as it is raid1/lvm, what should i
bang on it with?
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From chrome at real-time.com  Thu Apr  4 06:32:43 2013
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 07:32:43 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] something like fsck -c but this is lvm on top of
 raid1
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130404113243.GR481@real-time.com>

On 04/04 12:43 , gregrwm wrote:
> i was just about to migrate containers onto this box.  it was fine last
> week.  well heck, better run some tests instead i guess.  but what?  if it
> wasn't raid1/lvm, i'd run fsck -c, but as it is raid1/lvm, what should i
> bang on it with?

Spinrite is payware, but it does work for finding bad blocks on the
underlying disk.
http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm
The site is a bit dated, but the tool is good. Only downside I've found is
that if you have a bad spot on your disk, the tool can spend a *very* long
time trying to recover data from it even if you know for a fact there's no
data there you want to recover (such as in the case of a disk you don't have
any data on you care about). There's no way to tell it to just mark certain
sectors bad and not try to recover data from them.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Apr  4 14:52:31 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 14:52:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1304031827570.31076@veeta>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2vvvbkMw-3ixcdJCJm9Ntz44Q+gro3k1t0CpeKFiC6FA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CuUTwf+s-K+LLC18s-okob-1Yr7RgvNN5ZPHnKr2+c8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1304031827570.31076@veeta>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304041446550.15113@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Gerry wrote:

> strings /proc/$$/environ


That's interesting, but what is it doing differently from printenv?  It is 
different...

$ strings /proc/$$/environ > proc.txt ; printenv > printenv.txt

$ cat proc.txt printenv.txt printenv.txt | sort | uniq -c | gawk '$1<3' | perl -pe 's/^ +1 /      proc / ; s/^ +2 /  printenv /'
   printenv OLDPWD=/home/mbmiller
       proc PWD=/home/mbmiller
   printenv PWD=/home/mbmiller/research/data/MCTFR/GEDI/dbgap/final
       proc SHLVL=1
   printenv SHLVL=2
   printenv TERM=rxvt
       proc TERM=xterm
   printenv _=/usr/bin/printenv
       proc _=/usr/bin/vncserver


I am using Xvnc, which seems to have something to do with my particular 
results.  My working directory is the one given by printenv and the $TERM 
shown by printenv is what I see when I enter "echo $TERM".

Mike

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  4 21:05:47 2013
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 21:05:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1365094801.27459.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1365094801.27459.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W398ADB419B6C69ACBC13999DA0@phx.gbl>



Well this is a report from me being a noob. I learned alot in the openSUSE irc. I was able to use the chown command to enable k3b to work properly on LinuxMint13. I am really let down about some of the arrogance when I ask questions on irc. I have decided to continue on alone mostly and observe. This message really doesn't address anyone but I felt like typing a bit.


 		 	   		  
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Apr  4 21:28:53 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 22:28:53 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] something like fsck -c but this is lvm on top of
	raid1
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DqtMyOHS2RmTL+G5Nj5sS03ZFDsfxtYaCSGGZNXZTEaQ@mail.gmail.com>

according to http://linas.org/linux/raid.html:
(as of kernel 2.6.26 in July 2008):


   - For a RAID-1 config with two disks, if the data mis-compare was due to
   one block being unreadable, then the copy will be made from the remaining,
   readable block, which should hold good data. If both blocks were readable (
   *i.e.* were read from the disk, without the disk indicating any sort of
   error condition), but there was a mis-compare, then the data from the
   highest-numbered disk is copied to the other disk. This results in a 50-50
   chance that good data was over-written by bad. Furthermore, this is done
   silently: no syslog messages indicate either a mis-compare, or that a
   repair action was taken!
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Thu Apr  4 21:29:41 2013
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 21:29:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W398ADB419B6C69ACBC13999DA0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1365094801.27459.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<BAY175-W398ADB419B6C69ACBC13999DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KUAhLJ+_Ps7HhOevvKV7duCjp++oi8UVxpQ5MRfSCOucw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Well this is a report from me being a noob. I learned alot in the openSUSE
> irc. I was able to use the chown command to enable k3b to work properly on
> LinuxMint13. I am really let down about some of the arrogance when I ask
> questions on irc. I have decided to continue on alone mostly and observe.
> This message really doesn't address anyone but I felt like typing a bit.
>

Sorry you had a bad experience.

Most Linux users are happy to quietly enjoy using Linux and help out where
they can. There always ends up someone vocal who isn't the best
representative of the community. Even some in this group can get a little
feisty depending on the topic and if it's a full moon or not.

In my experience mailing lists and Distro-specific forums tend to produce
the friendliest and most useful answers.

--
Michael Moore
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From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Thu Apr  4 21:32:40 2013
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 21:32:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KUAhLJ+_Ps7HhOevvKV7duCjp++oi8UVxpQ5MRfSCOucw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1365094801.27459.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<BAY175-W398ADB419B6C69ACBC13999DA0@phx.gbl>
	<CAFE18KUAhLJ+_Ps7HhOevvKV7duCjp++oi8UVxpQ5MRfSCOucw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEHMoUb_VaQyp1gt=ZodH922cVjO4-3EFXrzsKidz+ub0Q@mail.gmail.com>

> Even some in this group can get a little
> feisty depending on the topic and if it's a full moon or not.

I resemble that remark!

--
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From jima at beer.tclug.org  Thu Apr  4 22:26:26 2013
From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 21:26:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W398ADB419B6C69ACBC13999DA0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1365094801.27459.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<BAY175-W398ADB419B6C69ACBC13999DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <515E4462.4070400@beer.tclug.org>

On 2013-04-04 20:05, Paul graf wrote:
> I was able to use the chown command to enable k3b to work properly on LinuxMint13.

  Funny, I just did the same thing to burn a DVD (albeit with dvdstyler).

  Maybe you should have asked in #tclug?  We're jerks, but we're usually 
at least moderately helpful jerks.

      Jima

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Apr  4 23:59:31 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 23:59:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] environment
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1304031827570.31076@veeta>
References: <CAD+dB9BCusO_=0hOy+EpiqnHchC7QoSf+isw3rDLMweLfJ3sPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO2vvvbkMw-3ixcdJCJm9Ntz44Q+gro3k1t0CpeKFiC6FA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CuUTwf+s-K+LLC18s-okob-1Yr7RgvNN5ZPHnKr2+c8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1304031827570.31076@veeta>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304042329130.15113@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, Gerry wrote:

> strings /proc/$$/environ


It took me awhile to figure that one out.  So the variable $ is the PID 
for the current (bash) shell as in...

echo $$

ps aux | grep -w $$

So /proc/$$ is a directory with info related to the current bash shell and 
the file environ in that directory holds the environment strings.  They 
seem to be delimited by null (NUL) characters.  So this shows the 
environment strings:

tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$$/environ

The strings command provides exactly the same output and it is easier to 
type.

Mike

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Apr  5 06:44:51 2013
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 06:44:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] something like fsck -c but this is lvm on top of
	raid1
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALpcnoz-ckdKj3_aiH=AOFXDaqhu0zzcue8Z+Syca8U9UO-zPQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:43 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> i routinely specify errors=remount-ro for all mountpoints in fstab.  well
> i'm guessing it must've finally actually just happened.  i got a few rsync
> command errors like
>
> rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/nagios/spool/checkresults/.checkzXAdNO.u4thPb"
> failed: Read-only file system (30)
> rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/nagios/spool/checkresults/.checkzfSgt2.TEekFF"
> failed: Read-only file system (30)
> rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/run/.utmp.rddpv9" failed: Read-only file
> system (30)
>
> so i check /proc/mounts and whaddyaknow it's mysteriously become
> readonly.  but i'm very surprised to find nothing unusual in
> /var/log/messages.  and /proc/mdstat is all UU's.
>
> i was just about to migrate containers onto this box.  it was fine last
> week.  well heck, better run some tests instead i guess.  but what?  if it
> wasn't raid1/lvm, i'd run fsck -c, but as it is raid1/lvm, what should i
> bang on it with?
>
> fsck is a filesystem check, so it'll still work to check the filesystem no
matter how many layers are under it. You can do a read test with dd
if=/dev/sda of=/dev/zero and see if that fails. Unfortunately to do a write
test you need to find something that won't loose the good data you have
there.



-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Apr  5 06:46:26 2013
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 06:46:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] something like fsck -c but this is lvm on top of
	raid1
In-Reply-To: <20130404113243.GR481@real-time.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130404113243.GR481@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CALpcnoyNHo8Cj=Pz1fpKDLxEXC+E8yuC=fDGOh0OzhzXsVF+Ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 6:32 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

> On 04/04 12:43 , gregrwm wrote:
> > i was just about to migrate containers onto this box.  it was fine last
> > week.  well heck, better run some tests instead i guess.  but what?  if
> it
> > wasn't raid1/lvm, i'd run fsck -c, but as it is raid1/lvm, what should i
> > bang on it with?
>
> Spinrite is payware, but it does work for finding bad blocks on the
> underlying disk.
> http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm
> The site is a bit dated, but the tool is good. Only downside I've found is
> that if you have a bad spot on your disk, the tool can spend a *very* long
> time trying to recover data from it even if you know for a fact there's no
> data there you want to recover (such as in the case of a disk you don't
> have
> any data on you care about). There's no way to tell it to just mark certain
> sectors bad and not try to recover data from them.
>
>
It also doesn't handle SATA disks well. I tried to use it to recover data
from a SATA drive and it blew up with a divide by zero. Tech support for
spinrite just told me that it works best on IDE drives. I ended up
returning it for a full refund. When I want to recover a system now I use
dd_rescue.



-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Fri Apr  5 06:47:46 2013
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 06:47:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] something like fsck -c but this is lvm on top of
	raid1
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CTnXCdz6rDrMhLmoWvjsagSSYStohpeDzzjZ1rt9QJdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALpcnowLT7daGr+pmmgom-rxvJxA9+6UL58BR8_5TAF=Qf-Whw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:43 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> i routinely specify errors=remount-ro for all mountpoints in fstab.  well
> i'm guessing it must've finally actually just happened.  i got a few rsync
> command errors like
>
> rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/nagios/spool/checkresults/.checkzXAdNO.u4thPb"
> failed: Read-only file system (30)
> rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/nagios/spool/checkresults/.checkzfSgt2.TEekFF"
> failed: Read-only file system (30)
> rsync: mkstemp "/vp/201/var/run/.utmp.rddpv9" failed: Read-only file
> system (30)
>
> so i check /proc/mounts and whaddyaknow it's mysteriously become
> readonly.  but i'm very surprised to find nothing unusual in
> /var/log/messages.  and /proc/mdstat is all UU's.
>
> i was just about to migrate containers onto this box.  it was fine last
> week.  well heck, better run some tests instead i guess.  but what?  if it
> wasn't raid1/lvm, i'd run fsck -c, but as it is raid1/lvm, what should i
> bang on it with?
>
> Another thought is that you can try bringing up the system as a degraded
RAID1 and try each disk to see which one is failing.


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Apr  5 22:42:36 2013
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 22:42:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Raspberry Pi-Day April 27th
Message-ID: <515F99AC.40901@Goecke-Dolan.com>


I am happy to announce

     "Raspberry Pi Day" at Penguins Unbound Meeting
           APRIL 27th 2013!

This will be a whole day (9:00am to 5:00pm) dedicated to working with 
and learning about the Raspberry Pi !

This will be hands-on, so bring your Raspberry Pi and follow along with 
your own Raspberry Pi!

Here is the agenda so far:
   There will be an intro "class" in the morning (9:30 to 11:30). With
   step-by-step to get you started. Followed by a Q & A time. So bring
   your Raspberry Pi and learn the basics in the morning.

   For Lunch, I will order pizza for all who would like to go in on
   buying some pizza. You are also welcome to bring your own lunch or go
   somewhere else.

   In the afternoon I hope to have different session on Raspberry Pi
   topics:
     XBMC on the Raspberry Pi
     Raspberry Pi Programming GPIO in C
     and more hopefully...

That is the plan so far!

If you plan on going please sign up on the wiki.

*** If you or, if you know someone, that has worked with Raspberry Pi 
and would be willing to present (or help) at the meeting please contact 
Me (Brian Dolan-Goecke) from
http://www.goecke-dolan.com/Brian/sendmeail.php

I am hoping to fine someone with experience driving motors and see some 
other interesting things that people have done with the Raspberry Pi.

Thanks I hope to see you there!

==>brian.


Be sure to order and get your Raspberry Pi today!

You can get a "Maker Shed" kit at MicroCenter
http://www.microcenter.com/product/402492/Raspberry_Pi_Starter_Kit
   (They had 2 in stock when I check earlier today. Be sure to select
the Minnesota store in the drop down list in the middle of the page 
header at the top.)

Here is more info about the "Maker Shed" kit
http://www.makershed.com/Raspberry_Pi_Starter_Kit_Includes_Raspberry_Pi_p/msrpik.htm

You can order from adafruit (they seem to have them in stock when I 
checked today)
http://adafruit.com/category/105
They also have several additional accessories, and project for the 
Raspberry Pi.

Jack Ungerleider mentioned you can get a Raspberry Pi here also
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/

I am sure there are many more places on the internet if you look

*** If you don't know what the Raspberry Pi is see these links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
http://www.raspberrypi.org/

From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Sun Apr  7 19:21:48 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 19:21:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
Message-ID: <51AE1AE9-1166-46B4-B5F4-DF7E5B628E7E@gmail.com>

Hello! 

A friend of mine & I decided yesterday we're going to attend the April 27th workshop. I still need to hop over to the wiki to sign up. 

Quick question: Without purchasing an entire "kit," what's the minimum necessities for getting rolling? I'm thinking: 

HMDI monitor & cable
USB mouse 
USB keyboard
4GB SD card
power supply 
& ??? 

Please add to my list of absolute minimum "essentials" & please let me know if any psu, with the correct specs, of course, will do... Adafruit sells a psu which they bill as "Linux compatible," or something like that, but I can't imagine that's much more than marketing hype.

Forgive me if these questions have already been addressed, I've had a lot going on as of late & have been barely scanning daily emails. 

Truthfully, for now much of the chatter on this list is over my head - but that's EXACTLY why I want to play around w/the RPi. My friend is a windows-centric DBA @his work, but has some Linux experience. He hasn't done anything w/hardware for years.  So I guess I'll be taking the lead on the hardware & he'll take the lead on the software. 

Feel free to tell me to go back & read the archives! Thanks in advance! 

Susan Stewart 

From florin at iucha.net  Sun Apr  7 22:31:05 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 22:31:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
In-Reply-To: <51AE1AE9-1166-46B4-B5F4-DF7E5B628E7E@gmail.com>
References: <51AE1AE9-1166-46B4-B5F4-DF7E5B628E7E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130408033105.GA19193@signbit.net>

On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 07:21:48PM -0500, Susan wrote:
> Quick question: Without purchasing an entire "kit," what's the minimum necessities for getting rolling? I'm thinking: 
> 
> HMDI monitor & cable
> USB mouse 
> USB keyboard
> 4GB SD card
> power supply 
> & ??? 

Check your current monitor (or even TV) for the kinds of inputs it
has and use either the S-Video or HDMI or DVI (via HDMI-to-DVI cable
[1]) .  You don't really need the display - once you set up the
networking you can connect it to the home router and connect over ssh.
Plus by not using the display you'll have more memory available for
the OS and applications.

Make sure you get the fastest card you can afford, maybe even an
industrial SD-card (that has SLC and not MLC, thus better endurance).

> Please add to my list of absolute minimum "essentials" & please
> let me know if any psu, with the correct specs, of course, will
> do... Adafruit sells a psu which they bill as "Linux compatible,"
> or something like that, but I can't imagine that's much more than
> marketing hype.

Any modern phone USB charger would do.  I'm not a EE, but what they
claim about their 5.25V PSU being better for a RPI as the voltage
won't drop below 5 as you connect more peripherals and accessories
seems reasonable.  I have used mine with a HTC phone charger and I
just got a couple of Adafruit chargers as the little chargers get into
bags when traveling and then sometimes they don't make it back home ;)

Cheers,
florin

1: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2661&seq=1&format=2

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From jeruvin at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 02:26:23 2013
From: jeruvin at gmail.com (jason reynolds)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 02:26:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
In-Reply-To: <20130408033105.GA19193@signbit.net>
References: <51AE1AE9-1166-46B4-B5F4-DF7E5B628E7E@gmail.com>
	<20130408033105.GA19193@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <CAPnpKPn+OZQ39o7mghGs85yeNwzAfsmXZWGh_whHe=34U6MP+w@mail.gmail.com>

I know the raspberry Pi is picky in regards to power. It needs to be at
least 700 mA (http://elinux.org/RPi_Hardware) or you will have strange
crashes. I've been using one with 1A power cable and its been solid.

A class 10 SD card will give you a quicker boot time and r/w performance.

I hear a powered USB Hub is great if you need more than two ports or you
keyboard or mouse are drawing too much power. (Probably crash if it's power
related as previously.)

Not necessary, but I love the cheaper little plastic cases from adafruit.

Also love the Wi-Fi USB adapter, but not necessary unless you are doing
some Wi-Fi projects.


Jason Reynolds

On Sunday, April 7, 2013, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 07:21:48PM -0500, Susan wrote:
> > Quick question: Without purchasing an entire "kit," what's the minimum
> necessities for getting rolling? I'm thinking:
> >
> > HMDI monitor & cable
> > USB mouse
> > USB keyboard
> > 4GB SD card
> > power supply
> > & ???
>
> Check your current monitor (or even TV) for the kinds of inputs it
> has and use either the S-Video or HDMI or DVI (via HDMI-to-DVI cable
> [1]) .  You don't really need the display - once you set up the
> networking you can connect it to the home router and connect over ssh.
> Plus by not using the display you'll have more memory available for
> the OS and applications.
>
> Make sure you get the fastest card you can afford, maybe even an
> industrial SD-card (that has SLC and not MLC, thus better endurance).
>
> > Please add to my list of absolute minimum "essentials" & please
> > let me know if any psu, with the correct specs, of course, will
> > do... Adafruit sells a psu which they bill as "Linux compatible,"
> > or something like that, but I can't imagine that's much more than
> > marketing hype.
>
> Any modern phone USB charger would do.  I'm not a EE, but what they
> claim about their 5.25V PSU being better for a RPI as the voltage
> won't drop below 5 as you connect more peripherals and accessories
> seems reasonable.  I have used mine with a HTC phone charger and I
> just got a couple of Adafruit chargers as the little chargers get into
> bags when traveling and then sometimes they don't make it back home ;)
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> 1:
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2661&seq=1&format=2
>
> --
> Sent from my other microwave oven.
>


-- 
jason
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From admin at lctn.org  Mon Apr  8 10:35:14 2013
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 10:35:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Testing a CPU
Message-ID: <5162E3B2.7090006@lctn.org>

I have a laptop that is acting quirky and would like to test the cpu for 
integrity. What tool are people using for this? I'm not looking for a 
stress tool, just want to be sure things are working correctly.


Raymond

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 10:38:00 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 10:38:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Testing a CPU
In-Reply-To: <5162E3B2.7090006@lctn.org>
References: <5162E3B2.7090006@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2GBzfERDpF2hqxtMM33oA1oZHQcgePkbpiQVMfU585AQ@mail.gmail.com>

prime95 works for stress as well as some testing- multi-platform.
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I have a laptop that is acting quirky and would like to test the cpu for
> integrity. What tool are people using for this? I'm not looking for a stress
> tool, just want to be sure things are working correctly.
>
>
> Raymond
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 13:55:08 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:55:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop TY! & Job Leads Please!
Message-ID: <405F158F-B569-4C23-BBC6-BB8B612AC7AA@gmail.com>


Thank you for all your responses - I so appreciate it! 

It'll be fun to finally put some faces w/names @the Workshop. :) 

As some of you may recall from prior discussions, I've been doing Dell Warranty Repairs as a Field Technician with Unisys. 

Well, I'm actually looking to get away from the road warrior gig, driving all-day, every-day is NOT my strength - I had a car accident a couple weeks & decided, although I love the work I do, I need to find something that's stationary ASAP. 

So...  if anyone knows of a "Desktop Support" or "Help Desk" opening, could you please let me know? 

I'll have my r?sum? ready to kick out there within 2-3 days. I also need to update my LinkedIn profile. 

Thanks in Advance & please email me off list if you have any leads, I wouldn't want to clutter up this list with talk about my job hunt. :) 

Sincerely,

Susan Stewart
susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 15:02:48 2013
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 15:02:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ansible / Minnebar
Message-ID: <CADdM08o99W1O2=8iYs4XHgyYuAnHX6=HV_Z_JO=s7CyR69LKKA@mail.gmail.com>

First, I'm just curious if anyone is using Ansible[1] in production? After
getting fed up with puppet, I'm seriously considering moving to Ansible.
I've spent a couple hours the last few days poking at it, and it's been a
*much* more pleasant experience than I've had with puppet.

Second, any post-Minnebar thoughts?

The most enjoyable (and useful) session I attended was the monitoring
session. Among other projects, this session introduced me to Sensu[2], a
new-ish monitoring framework. I've been using Nagios for years, and it
holds a dear place in my heart. In my current gig, though, our environment
has a very high rate of change. Servers get started and destroyed
programmatically, sometimes on a minute-by-minute basis. This makes using
legacy monitoring products like Nagios very painful. Sensu uses a
subscription-based model where clients register themselves with the server
and "subscribe" to different roles. Based on that role's configuration, the
server starts checking services on the client. I haven't started playing
with Sensu yet, but I will likely be doing so in the next few days, as I
don't want to invest any more time in my Nagios setup if I'm going to be
deprecating it soon.

Anyway, that's all for now - I'm looking forward to hearing from
(hopefully) some of you!

Thanks!
-Erik

[1] http://ansible.cc/
[2] http://sensuapp.org/
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From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 15:37:41 2013
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 15:37:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ansible / Minnebar
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08o99W1O2=8iYs4XHgyYuAnHX6=HV_Z_JO=s7CyR69LKKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADdM08o99W1O2=8iYs4XHgyYuAnHX6=HV_Z_JO=s7CyR69LKKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEHnJhAB36p_L9=+xMQxuHspPtK998MRz2D3oe=dpAsV5w@mail.gmail.com>

The Best Buy guys are using Chef, and have been happy with it. Puppet
was mentioned in one of the sessions I attended, but the team decided
to use Chef instead.

They also said if you're not using one of these tools you're doing it wrong :)

Let me know if you want I can put you in touch with the guys who were
giving the talk.

-Erik

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:
> First, I'm just curious if anyone is using Ansible[1] in production? After
> getting fed up with puppet, I'm seriously considering moving to Ansible.
> I've spent a couple hours the last few days poking at it, and it's been a
> *much* more pleasant experience than I've had with puppet.
>
> Second, any post-Minnebar thoughts?
>
> The most enjoyable (and useful) session I attended was the monitoring
> session. Among other projects, this session introduced me to Sensu[2], a
> new-ish monitoring framework. I've been using Nagios for years, and it holds
> a dear place in my heart. In my current gig, though, our environment has a
> very high rate of change. Servers get started and destroyed
> programmatically, sometimes on a minute-by-minute basis. This makes using
> legacy monitoring products like Nagios very painful. Sensu uses a
> subscription-based model where clients register themselves with the server
> and "subscribe" to different roles. Based on that role's configuration, the
> server starts checking services on the client. I haven't started playing
> with Sensu yet, but I will likely be doing so in the next few days, as I
> don't want to invest any more time in my Nagios setup if I'm going to be
> deprecating it soon.
>
> Anyway, that's all for now - I'm looking forward to hearing from (hopefully)
> some of you!
>
> Thanks!
> -Erik
>
> [1] http://ansible.cc/
> [2] http://sensuapp.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 15:55:31 2013
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 15:55:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ansible / Minnebar
In-Reply-To: <CANNReEHnJhAB36p_L9=+xMQxuHspPtK998MRz2D3oe=dpAsV5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADdM08o99W1O2=8iYs4XHgyYuAnHX6=HV_Z_JO=s7CyR69LKKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEHnJhAB36p_L9=+xMQxuHspPtK998MRz2D3oe=dpAsV5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08oiqBf+8AOOz_ibaioASqg7zWz1ndB9M59yFvZNNby9CA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> The Best Buy guys are using Chef, and have been happy with it. Puppet
> was mentioned in one of the sessions I attended, but the team decided
> to use Chef instead.
>

Yah, I've tried out Chef as well. Didn't care for it.

Ansible seems to fit the bill in many ways for our project - it's
python-based, and we're all python devs, so that works well. Additionally,
it operates over "vanilla" ssh, and doesn't require any client-side code
other than a python interpreter, which is very nice for keeping things
clean and simple.


> They also said if you're not using one of these tools you're doing it
> wrong :)
>

If by "one of these", they meant a configuration management system, I'd
agree with that.


> Let me know if you want I can put you in touch with the guys who were
> giving the talk.
>

Bryan had his contact info on one of his slides, so I'm all set.

Thanks!
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From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 16:03:10 2013
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 16:03:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ansible / Minnebar
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08oiqBf+8AOOz_ibaioASqg7zWz1ndB9M59yFvZNNby9CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADdM08o99W1O2=8iYs4XHgyYuAnHX6=HV_Z_JO=s7CyR69LKKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEHnJhAB36p_L9=+xMQxuHspPtK998MRz2D3oe=dpAsV5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08oiqBf+8AOOz_ibaioASqg7zWz1ndB9M59yFvZNNby9CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEGuUJRAr_VpenTRQQsdgs_jhQsBBYsatyZ70ShH5Xy1wg@mail.gmail.com>

>>
>> Let me know if you want I can put you in touch with the guys who were
>> giving the talk.
>
>
> Bryan had his contact info on one of his slides, so I'm all set.

I was referring to John Malone and Joel Jensen.

http://wiki.minnestar.org/wiki/Scaling_Ruby_for_Enterprise_Applications


--
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From erikerik at gmail.com  Mon Apr  8 16:05:40 2013
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 16:05:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ansible / Minnebar
In-Reply-To: <CANNReEGuUJRAr_VpenTRQQsdgs_jhQsBBYsatyZ70ShH5Xy1wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADdM08o99W1O2=8iYs4XHgyYuAnHX6=HV_Z_JO=s7CyR69LKKA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEHnJhAB36p_L9=+xMQxuHspPtK998MRz2D3oe=dpAsV5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08oiqBf+8AOOz_ibaioASqg7zWz1ndB9M59yFvZNNby9CA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEGuUJRAr_VpenTRQQsdgs_jhQsBBYsatyZ70ShH5Xy1wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08rLQyrjPVGf9OUw365B8JHfhWawd-L4a0nvn-03FY69mQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> I was referring to John Malone and Joel Jensen.
>
> http://wiki.minnestar.org/wiki/Scaling_Ruby_for_Enterprise_Applications
>

Ahh, I see. I think I'm good for now.
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Apr 10 02:46:33 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 03:46:33 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] enterprise class
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CAZo0xspPuf562VcTj6HJ=hwQcm7-ZcP6YFzzn929nKw@mail.gmail.com>

> I propose we replace the drives ... with Western Digital RE4 (enterprise
class) 1TB drives.  These should be much better for use in RAID than
desktop drives, and are reasonably priced these days.

true or bunk?  i've read all you get for enterprise class its the privilege
of getting 1/7 the capacity/$.  true or bunk?
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Wed Apr 10 06:28:49 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:28:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] enterprise class
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CAZo0xspPuf562VcTj6HJ=hwQcm7-ZcP6YFzzn929nKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CAZo0xspPuf562VcTj6HJ=hwQcm7-ZcP6YFzzn929nKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2Lj3BqrKO-gcRMxQpRUxaY5GwXxBADDt9XBpwLeTFXjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can't speak to that line specifically, however I have nothing but good
things to say for the Raptor drives for Enterprise. Used these for
RAID0 drives and forensic processing at a previous job. They either
worked or they didn't out of the box, and the failure rate was
extremely low. Granted you're paying more for 10k RPM, but if you need
performance it's worth it- may not be feasible in your situation.

For a large, cheap storage solution at my current gig, we went with a
large group of 3 TB WD Blue drives and have been happy. IMO something
about the Green Intelligent RPM statement (likely 52ish RPM on these)
drives make me a little nervous on the performance end. If you're not
worried to max performance, maybe this won't be an issue.

Just my two cents this early morning ;-)
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:46 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>> I propose we replace the drives ... with Western Digital RE4 (enterprise
>> class) 1TB drives.  These should be much better for use in RAID than desktop
>> drives, and are reasonably priced these days.
>
> true or bunk?  i've read all you get for enterprise class its the privilege
> of getting 1/7 the capacity/$.  true or bunk?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From john.meier at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 11:12:36 2013
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:12:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] "Spring" Cleaning Part 1 - 22 hard drives
Message-ID: <CAL0Bt08PVwfcFJ6BZKVD9Ozaaha+M1cAEu0m8UYwbnmn+H4eGw@mail.gmail.com>

I have 22 hard drives that I don't need:

16 - 3.5 ide type in the 3 - 60 Gb range
SCSI looking type - Seagate ST318275LC
5 - 2.5 ide laptop drives in the 4 - 40 Gb range

Can send pictures if you want to see them sitting on my desk.  LMK

I'm in the 494 and 169 area of Bloomington.
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 15:18:37 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:18:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

http://thevarguy.com/open-source-application-software-companies/ubuntu-1304-canonicals-latest-linux-whats-new-whats-not

"Ubuntu developers have announced, after a lengthy debate that began 
earlier this spring, that non-longterm support (LTS) releases of the 
operating system will receive official support only for nine months, 
instead of the eighteen Canonical previously provided."


It's the new approach, I guess -- pushing users to upgrade within 3 months 
after each new release.  Is this a good idea?  What do you all think?

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Apr 16 15:21:05 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:21:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1304161519520.2323@dragon>

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Mike Miller wrote:

> It's the new approach, I guess -- pushing users to upgrade within 3 months 
> after each new release.  Is this a good idea?  What do you all think?

Eh. Cause Ubuntu does any kind of useful support for me?

I guess I'm not really the target audience for Ubuntu. It's just the 
distro I find the easiest to beat up until it does what I want it to. I 
still occasionally have to build my own packages or live with bugs they 
refuse to fix.


--

From joel.longanecker at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 15:22:30 2013
From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:22:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>

I hope they have dist-upgrade perfected. I've only ever had problems with
it.
On Apr 16, 2013 3:19 PM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://thevarguy.com/open-**source-application-software-**
> companies/ubuntu-1304-**canonicals-latest-linux-whats-**new-whats-not<http://thevarguy.com/open-source-application-software-companies/ubuntu-1304-canonicals-latest-linux-whats-new-whats-not>
>
> "Ubuntu developers have announced, after a lengthy debate that began
> earlier this spring, that non-longterm support (LTS) releases of the
> operating system will receive official support only for nine months,
> instead of the eighteen Canonical previously provided."
>
>
> It's the new approach, I guess -- pushing users to upgrade within 3 months
> after each new release.  Is this a good idea?  What do you all think?
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From mgreenly at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 15:24:44 2013
From: mgreenly at gmail.com (Michael Greenly)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:24:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAChQk+Mok76W-Z9Mpo9W=HdaAtjPSm-tEm3-O5fhHSVBC+nEng@mail.gmail.com>

Don't forget they recently lengthened the long term support from 3 to 5
years for the desktop.  It's seems to me clearly designed to conserve
developer resources by pushing users who don't want to regularly upgrade to
the LT releases.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://thevarguy.com/open-**source-application-software-**
> companies/ubuntu-1304-**canonicals-latest-linux-whats-**new-whats-not<http://thevarguy.com/open-source-application-software-companies/ubuntu-1304-canonicals-latest-linux-whats-new-whats-not>
>
> "Ubuntu developers have announced, after a lengthy debate that began
> earlier this spring, that non-longterm support (LTS) releases of the
> operating system will receive official support only for nine months,
> instead of the eighteen Canonical previously provided."
>
>
> It's the new approach, I guess -- pushing users to upgrade within 3 months
> after each new release.  Is this a good idea?  What do you all think?
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>



-- 
Michael Greenly
http://logic-refinery.com
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 15:32:22 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:32:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2qvpa7A_qGFRqJMjKkMekoSpmkYbKApywJ=3xM=WXhyA@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with this decision, frees up the developers for the greater
good of having an updated OS. Legacy versions have a shrinking user
base anyway.
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://thevarguy.com/open-source-application-software-companies/ubuntu-1304-canonicals-latest-linux-whats-new-whats-not
>
> "Ubuntu developers have announced, after a lengthy debate that began earlier
> this spring, that non-longterm support (LTS) releases of the operating
> system will receive official support only for nine months, instead of the
> eighteen Canonical previously provided."
>
>
> It's the new approach, I guess -- pushing users to upgrade within 3 months
> after each new release.  Is this a good idea?  What do you all think?
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug at beitsahour.net  Tue Apr 16 15:33:03 2013
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:33:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>

I share your distaste for Ubuntu, i should point out however that if
you are using dist-upgrade you are probably doing it wrong. Ubuntu is
NOT debian and doing things the debian way is probably not the best
way of doing thing. The command to update and Ubuntu system to the
latest release is using the do-system-upgrade command.

behind the scenes it does indeed do a dist-upgrade, but it does a
little more from what i can tell.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Joel Longanecker
<joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope they have dist-upgrade perfected. I've only ever had problems with
> it.
>
> On Apr 16, 2013 3:19 PM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://thevarguy.com/open-source-application-software-companies/ubuntu-1304-canonicals-latest-linux-whats-new-whats-not
>>
>> "Ubuntu developers have announced, after a lengthy debate that began
>> earlier this spring, that non-longterm support (LTS) releases of the
>> operating system will receive official support only for nine months, instead
>> of the eighteen Canonical previously provided."
>>
>>
>> It's the new approach, I guess -- pushing users to upgrade within 3 months
>> after each new release.  Is this a good idea?  What do you all think?
>>
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 16:06:05 2013
From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 16:06:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't it 'do-release-upgrade'?


On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net> wrote:

> I share your distaste for Ubuntu, i should point out however that if
> you are using dist-upgrade you are probably doing it wrong. Ubuntu is
> NOT debian and doing things the debian way is probably not the best
> way of doing thing. The command to update and Ubuntu system to the
> latest release is using the do-system-upgrade command.
>
> behind the scenes it does indeed do a dist-upgrade, but it does a
> little more from what i can tell.
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Joel Longanecker
> <joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I hope they have dist-upgrade perfected. I've only ever had problems with
> > it.
> >
> > On Apr 16, 2013 3:19 PM, "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://thevarguy.com/open-source-application-software-companies/ubuntu-1304-canonicals-latest-linux-whats-new-whats-not
> >>
> >> "Ubuntu developers have announced, after a lengthy debate that began
> >> earlier this spring, that non-longterm support (LTS) releases of the
> >> operating system will receive official support only for nine months,
> instead
> >> of the eighteen Canonical previously provided."
> >>
> >>
> >> It's the new approach, I guess -- pushing users to upgrade within 3
> months
> >> after each new release.  Is this a good idea?  What do you all think?
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at beitsahour.net  Tue Apr 16 16:22:22 2013
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 16:22:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMg8xasdG4b=52mypk3THO9R+0uQ9ge-zmnDDSxbONS6DOUFtQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Ryan Dunlop <ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com> wrote:
> Isn't it 'do-release-upgrade'?

you might be right, it has been a couple of years.

From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 16:34:54 2013
From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 16:34:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <CAMg8xasdG4b=52mypk3THO9R+0uQ9ge-zmnDDSxbONS6DOUFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xasdG4b=52mypk3THO9R+0uQ9ge-zmnDDSxbONS6DOUFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKOK-RzXnrtiAO_fCNNe8QDG7WPZhpzwVMk-MhN1T0kTSsSwkg@mail.gmail.com>

I think that's what my 10.04 server keeps yelling at me when check in on
it.  Regardless I still wouldn't suggest using it.  I too have had messed
up upgrades and prefer backing up data, fresh install and restore data.
 Just me though!


On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Ryan Dunlop <ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Isn't it 'do-release-upgrade'?
>
> you might be right, it has been a couple of years.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Apr 16 17:17:52 2013
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 17:17:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <CAKOK-RzXnrtiAO_fCNNe8QDG7WPZhpzwVMk-MhN1T0kTSsSwkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xasdG4b=52mypk3THO9R+0uQ9ge-zmnDDSxbONS6DOUFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RzXnrtiAO_fCNNe8QDG7WPZhpzwVMk-MhN1T0kTSsSwkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1366150672.17421.283.camel@sysadmin3a>

I've successfully upgraded two of my servers (no X on them) from one LTS
to the next using command line, over SSH even thanks to screen. Never
had any problems.
All of my stuff kept on working, apache, bind, various other
applications.

I guess ymmv

Just my $0.02



On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 16:34 -0500, Ryan Dunlop wrote:
> I think that's what my 10.04 server keeps yelling at me when check in
> on it.  Regardless I still wouldn't suggest using it.  I too have had
> messed up upgrades and prefer backing up data, fresh install and
> restore data.  Just me though!
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net>
> wrote:
> 
>         On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Ryan Dunlop
>         <ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com> wrote:
>         > Isn't it 'do-release-upgrade'?
>         
>         
>         
>         you might be right, it has been a couple of years.
>         
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>         
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From joel.longanecker at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 17:20:43 2013
From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 17:20:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <1366150672.17421.283.camel@sysadmin3a>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xasdG4b=52mypk3THO9R+0uQ9ge-zmnDDSxbONS6DOUFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RzXnrtiAO_fCNNe8QDG7WPZhpzwVMk-MhN1T0kTSsSwkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1366150672.17421.283.camel@sysadmin3a>
Message-ID: <CAOusT---O1DZ8aywgQ=dmYEE=_w-hyZpgC5YoAfpbXTLuezp3A@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah its usually the desktop stuff that dies horribly.
On Apr 16, 2013 5:19 PM, "Justin Krejci" <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> **
> I've successfully upgraded two of my servers (no X on them) from one LTS
> to the next using command line, over SSH even thanks to screen. Never had
> any problems.
> All of my stuff kept on working, apache, bind, various other applications.
>
> I guess ymmv
>
> Just my $0.02
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 16:34 -0500, Ryan Dunlop wrote:
>
> I think that's what my 10.04 server keeps yelling at me when check in on
> it.  Regardless I still wouldn't suggest using it.  I too have had messed
> up upgrades and prefer backing up data, fresh install and restore data.
>  Just me though!
>
>
>
>  On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net>
> wrote:
>
>  On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Ryan Dunlop <ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Isn't it 'do-release-upgrade'?
>
>
>   you might be right, it has been a couple of years.
>
>   _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Apr 17 16:32:20 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:32:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304171617130.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Ryan Dunlop wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net> wrote:
>
>> I share your distaste for Ubuntu, i should point out however that if 
>> you are using dist-upgrade you are probably doing it wrong. Ubuntu is 
>> NOT debian and doing things the debian way is probably not the best way 
>> of doing thing. The command to update and Ubuntu system to the latest 
>> release is using the do-system-upgrade command.
>>
>> behind the scenes it does indeed do a dist-upgrade, but it does a 
>> little more from what i can tell.
>
>
> Isn't it 'do-release-upgrade'?


Yes, do-release-upgrade.  That's a good one to know.  I usually just 
choose it from the update manager window, but I am using X.

So here's a question -- to upgrade to the latest version, must one upgrade 
to each intermediate version in between?  For example, I have a machine 
with Ubuntu 10.10...

$ cat /etc/issue
Ubuntu 10.10 \n \l

...(in case anyone forgot how to tell the release version), and if I want 
to upgrade to 13.04 in a few weeks, do I have to go through 11.04, 11.10, 
12.04 and 12.10 first?

Mike

From mgreenly at gmail.com  Wed Apr 17 16:59:57 2013
From: mgreenly at gmail.com (Michael Greenly)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:59:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304171617130.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1304171617130.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAChQk+NiH3LZeAgrZ1849xCuBV0gZr7wBghzjUJd274tB1tSSg@mail.gmail.com>

How would you skip them, download the iso run the install and choose
upgrade?  That should work without issue especially if you let it remove
the packages that are no longer supported at the end but I don't think I'd
trust that process if it was a machine I was depending on.

For what it's worth I just did some 'do-system-upgrade' upgrades from 12.10
to 13.04 without any issues, but I keep pretty clean systems (no installs
from source, etc....) so I rarely have problems.


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Ryan Dunlop wrote:
>
>  On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I share your distaste for Ubuntu, i should point out however that if you
>>> are using dist-upgrade you are probably doing it wrong. Ubuntu is NOT
>>> debian and doing things the debian way is probably not the best way of
>>> doing thing. The command to update and Ubuntu system to the latest release
>>> is using the do-system-upgrade command.
>>>
>>> behind the scenes it does indeed do a dist-upgrade, but it does a little
>>> more from what i can tell.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Isn't it 'do-release-upgrade'?
>>
>
>
> Yes, do-release-upgrade.  That's a good one to know.  I usually just
> choose it from the update manager window, but I am using X.
>
> So here's a question -- to upgrade to the latest version, must one upgrade
> to each intermediate version in between?  For example, I have a machine
> with Ubuntu 10.10...
>
> $ cat /etc/issue
> Ubuntu 10.10 \n \l
>
> ...(in case anyone forgot how to tell the release version), and if I want
> to upgrade to 13.04 in a few weeks, do I have to go through 11.04, 11.10,
> 12.04 and 12.10 first?
>
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>



-- 
Michael Greenly
http://logic-refinery.com
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From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Wed Apr 17 20:59:32 2013
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 20:59:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 13.04 to be supported for only 9 months
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304171617130.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304161515580.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAOusT-_auapOPrtT4CXhu3mBnJLQMQ=Hnd5Mfi0qoFxohVpijw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMg8xato9tNW0poqyiaw6TkJrR_4s+D6gs_hfxkgVP-K00ojvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOK-RyB4a1VRh4cM4bCNSsGuuSr4fynkG9LX_VYz_a+JjzYGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1304171617130.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAOZLdJVNwdafd=d3O=YUDxkSvWLUOPjwYTnkmSGGASA31BaCRA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> So here's a question -- to upgrade to the latest version, must one upgrade
> to each intermediate version in between?  For example, I have a machine
> with Ubuntu 10.10...
>
> $ cat /etc/issue
> Ubuntu 10.10 \n \l
>
> ...(in case anyone forgot how to tell the release version), and if I want
> to upgrade to 13.04 in a few weeks, do I have to go through 11.04, 11.10,
> 12.04 and 12.10 first?
>

"Sort of."  You can upgrade directly from one LTS to the next LTS (eg.
10.04 to 12.04), but can only go from a non-LTS to the next release.  So,
from 10.10 to 13.04, your upgrade path would indeed by the full list of
10.10, 11.04, 11.10, 12.04, 12.10, 13.04.  If you were on 10.04 instead you
could go 10.04, 12.04, 12.10, 13.04.  HOWEVER, I *believe* the current
versions of the upgrade tools (both CLI and GUI) have been improved to have
some kind of multi-step capability, such that doing this becomes slightly
less awkward for the user (although still very time-consuming).  I don't
recall what it actually does, but I seem to remember something changing.
This is definitely a time when having a local APT mirror comes in handy.  :)

 - Tony
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From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Mon Apr 22 13:06:03 2013
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 13:06:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] The Start button will return to Windows
Message-ID: <20130422130603.bd33a564895f12f0a735cd43@jasonhsu.com>

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/04/22/microsoft-reportedly-reintroducing-start-button-with-windows-8-1/?partner=yahootix

It looks like Microsoft will be bringing the Start button back to Windows.  Ironically enough, Microsoft is quicker to respond to complaints about Windows 8 than Canonical is on complaints about Unity.  Then again, Linux Mint Main Edition is the most logical replacement for the old Ubuntu with GNOME2.

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Mon Apr 22 14:06:07 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 14:06:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] The Start button will return to Windows
In-Reply-To: <20130422130603.bd33a564895f12f0a735cd43@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20130422130603.bd33a564895f12f0a735cd43@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO09p35iEPWVVGue1-zHpB=CXOX5YOb-cqFb-3rh=6zZCQ@mail.gmail.com>

"Ironically enough, Microsoft is quicker to respond to complaints
about Windows 8 than Canonical is on complaints about Unity"

Tell that to people (like myself) who have to use IE 10 in Win 8 on a
desktop. They have been ignoring our pleas since beta Win 8 to have IE
10 in Win 8 respect global font anti-aliasing (it never has- they say
this was intentional for the tablet market and they won't fix it). IMO
the market shifts and ebbs and flows, however tablets will not fully
replace desktop computing any time in the near future.

Canonical is like Microsoft, I'll give you that. The whole we don't
give a lot of weight to what our end users want because we think we
know the market and what is best for them is definitely at play for
both. I think it took a few major media outlets and compiled
statistical complaints before MS even considered putting the start
menu you back as a registry item.

For those stuck with Win 8- I recommend Classic Shell (open source).
I'm darn near Win 7 UI with it.

All that said, I hope they do put in a registry switch for the classic
Start menu. I still use Windows for work and occasionally at home-
sometimes there is just no way around that.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/04/22/microsoft-reportedly-reintroducing-start-button-with-windows-8-1/?partner=yahootix
>
> It looks like Microsoft will be bringing the Start button back to Windows.  Ironically enough, Microsoft is quicker to respond to complaints about Windows 8 than Canonical is on complaints about Unity.  Then again, Linux Mint Main Edition is the most logical replacement for the old Ubuntu with GNOME2.
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From steventrapp at comcast.net  Mon Apr 22 15:56:42 2013
From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven Trapp)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 15:56:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] The Start button will return to Windows
In-Reply-To: <20130422130603.bd33a564895f12f0a735cd43@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20130422130603.bd33a564895f12f0a735cd43@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <20130422155642.71212006@falcon.stcave.local>

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 13:06:03 -0500,
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:

> http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/04/22/microsoft-reportedly-reintroducing-start-button-with-windows-8-1/?partner=yahootix
> 
> It looks like Microsoft will be bringing the Start button back to
> Windows.  Ironically enough, Microsoft is quicker to respond to
> complaints about Windows 8 than Canonical is on complaints about Unity.
> Then again, Linux Mint Main Edition is the most logical replacement for
> the old Ubuntu with GNOME2.
> 


From steventrapp at comcast.net  Mon Apr 22 15:59:13 2013
From: steventrapp at comcast.net (Steven Trapp)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 15:59:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Oops. Sorry.
Message-ID: <20130422155913.6c2a6c7b@falcon.stcave.local>

Last message I sent is RETRACTed.
I hit the wrong virtual-button [SEND].
I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

-- 
Name: Steve Trapp
Homepage: http://home.comcast.net/~steventrapp/
Email: steventrapp **AT** comcast **DOT** net
Locale: en_US.UTF-8 | Location: Upper Midwest

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Apr 22 22:21:43 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 22:21:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] The Start button will return to Windows
In-Reply-To: <20130422130603.bd33a564895f12f0a735cd43@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20130422130603.bd33a564895f12f0a735cd43@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304222200300.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Jason Hsu wrote:

> http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/04/22/microsoft-reportedly-reintroducing-start-button-with-windows-8-1/?partner=yahootix
>
> It looks like Microsoft will be bringing the Start button back to 
> Windows.  Ironically enough, Microsoft is quicker to respond to 
> complaints about Windows 8 than Canonical is on complaints about Unity. 
> Then again, Linux Mint Main Edition is the most logical replacement for 
> the old Ubuntu with GNOME2.

I think any development teaim will ignore a complaint they disagree with. 
Isn't that the issue?  Microsoft is strategic.  People say they are losing 
market share because of dropping the Start button, so they are adding it 
in the next version.  Is Ubuntu losing market share because of Unity? 
Maybe, but not so much that they will act to fix it.

Mike

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Tue Apr 23 02:15:46 2013
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 02:15:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Raspberry Pi-Day April 27
Message-ID: <51763522.4000702@Goecke-Dolan.com>

     "Raspberry Pi Day" at Penguins Unbound Meeting
           APRIL 27th 2013!


Raspberry Pi Day will be a whole day (9:00am to 5:00pm) dedicated to 
working with and learning about the Raspberry Pi !

This will be hands-on, so bring your Raspberry Pi and follow along with 
your own Raspberry Pi!

Here is the agenda so far:

  9:00 - 11:30 - Starting with your Pi (by Brian Dolan-Goecke)
   Step-by-Step to get you started with your Raspberry Pi. What you need
   to know to get set up, to start loading and working with the basics
   with your Raspberry Pi.

  11:30 - 1:00 - Lunch
   For Lunch, we will order pizza for all who would like to go in on
   buying some pizza. ( You are also welcome to bring your own lunch or
   go somewhere else.)

   Afternoon sessions:

  1:00 - 2:45 Blink'n Lights (by )
   Using several things on the breadboard (RGB LED control, temperature
   and humidity sensing, light sensing, reading a switch), plus it could
   be added to on the fly as well, if there are any interesting ideas.
   (It would be useful to have a Adafruit Pi Cobbler Breakout Kit,
    http://www.adafruit.com/products/914 )

   Or
  1:00 - 2:45 ???? Hope to add another session ????


  3:00 - 4:45 XBMC on the Raspberry Pi (by Brian Dolan-Goecke)
   Load and working with XBMC.

  Or

  3:00 - 4:45 GPIO with C
   How to use C to program and use the GPIO pins on the Raspberry Pi.


  4:45 - 5:00 Raspberry Pie!
   Raspberry Pie, the kind you eat!

*** If you plan on going please sign up on the wiki.
http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Meetings/20130427_-_Pi_Day
***

*** If you or, if you know someone, that has worked with Raspberry Pi 
and would be willing to present (or help) at the meeting please contact 
Me (Brian Dolan-Goecke) from
http://www.goecke-dolan.com/Brian/sendmeail.php
***

Thanks I hope to see you there!

==>brian.


Be sure to order and get your Raspberry Pi today!

You can get a "Maker Shed" kit at MicroCenter
http://www.microcenter.com/product/402492/Raspberry_Pi_Starter_Kit
   (They were out of stock when I check earlier today. Be sure to select
the Minnesota store in the drop down list in the middle of the page 
header at the top.)

Here is more info about the "Maker Shed" kit
http://www.makershed.com/Raspberry_Pi_Starter_Kit_Includes_Raspberry_Pi_p/msrpik.htm

You can order from adafruit (they seem to have them in stock when I 
checked today)
http://adafruit.com/category/105
They also have several additional accessories, and project for the 
Raspberry Pi. They had several in stock on April 22nd with 3day shipping!

Jack Ungerleider mentioned you can get a Raspberry Pi here also
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/

I am sure there are many more places on the internet if you look

*** If you don't know what the Raspberry Pi is see these links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
http://www.raspberrypi.org/

-- 
electrons are not important in nuclear chemistry

From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Tue Apr 23 17:09:22 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:09:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
Message-ID: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>

Nothing like waiting until the last moment, I just placed my order w/Adafruit. 2nd day air shipping. 
I subsequently received the following email, note they close at 6PM Eastern time.

****
Hi from Adafruit!

Thanks for the order, we ship UPS expedited orders within 1 business day
provided it comes in before the daily UPS cut off at 11am ET, your order
will ship the next business day. On Fridays after 11am, the first business
day will be Monday unless it is a holiday.

There is not Saturday or Sunday delivery or shipping.

We wanted to send you this note in case you need to change your order or
make other arrangements.
****

Regards,
Susan Stewart
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From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Tue Apr 23 17:13:55 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:13:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
In-Reply-To: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>

I also received this email: 

****

thanks, this order will ship on weds and arrive on friday.

*****
Sooooo... If you plan to order from Adafruit, next day air & place your order by 10AM central time, 11am eastern time. Just FYI. 

Regards,

Susan Stewart 

On Apr 23, 2013, at 5:09 PM, Susan <susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nothing like waiting until the last moment, I just placed my order w/Adafruit. 2nd day air shipping. 
> I subsequently received the following email, note they close at 6PM Eastern time.
> 
> ****
> Hi from Adafruit!
> 
> Thanks for the order, we ship UPS expedited orders within 1 business day
> provided it comes in before the daily UPS cut off at 11am ET, your order
> will ship the next business day. On Fridays after 11am, the first business
> day will be Monday unless it is a holiday.
> 
> There is not Saturday or Sunday delivery or shipping.
> 
> We wanted to send you this note in case you need to change your order or
> make other arrangements.
> ****
> 
> Regards,
> Susan Stewart
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From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Tue Apr 23 17:22:13 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:22:13 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
In-Reply-To: <B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>

I just want to emphasis, in case ppl are quickly scanning these emails/list, as I normally do...

Youur order must be placed w/Adafruit TOMORROW, by 10am CST, next day air, & next day air only, to get it by Friday. 

Shipping is about $30 on next day mail. 

My apologies for the multiple emails!!!

:-)
Susan Stewart 


From tlunde at gmail.com  Tue Apr 23 23:14:35 2013
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 23:14:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
In-Reply-To: <E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>
	<E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Or, go to the vending machine at TC Maker and buy one there.

$50, but no shipping & it includes tax.

Thomas


On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Susan <susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com> wrote:

> I just want to emphasis, in case ppl are quickly scanning these
> emails/list, as I normally do...
>
> Youur order must be placed w/Adafruit TOMORROW, by 10am CST, next day air,
> & next day air only, to get it by Friday.
>
> Shipping is about $30 on next day mail.
>
> My apologies for the multiple emails!!!
>
> :-)
> Susan Stewart
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Wed Apr 24 00:12:21 2013
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 00:12:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Blink'n Lights @Penguins Unbound Raspberry Pi-Day
	April 27
Message-ID: <517769B5.7050808@Goecke-Dolan.com>


If you are going to goto the "Blink'n Light" presentaion (from 1:00pm to 
2:45pm Saturday) here is a parts list.  I am not sure he will have time 
to cover all these parts but if you have parts he will probably help you 
with them.

Parts list: Various LEDs (3mm to 5mm, assortment of colors to suit the
user's personality), resistors in the range of 460ohm to 1kohm, a minimum of
one per LED to be hooked up. For the daring, an RGB LED plus three
resistors. A photo sensor, a capacitor - 10 microFarads, a breadboard
compatible momentary contact switch. A DS18S20, and / or a DHT11 or 22. 
An Adafruit 8x8 bi-color LED matrix.

LEDs: http://www.adafruit.com/products/297
http://www.adafruit.com/products/754
http://www.adafruit.com/products/780
(you get the idea...)
RGB LEDs: http://www.adafruit.com/products/302
Bi-color 8x8 LED matrix: http://www.adafruit.com/products/902
Resistors: http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70022897
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70022915
Photo cell: http://www.adafruit.com/products/161
Capacitor: http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70186496
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70111898
DHT11 Temp and humidity sensor: http://www.adafruit.com/products/386
DHT22 Temp and humidity sensor: http://www.adafruit.com/products/393
DS18S20: http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70127740
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=R1036264

Wiring diagrams and other misc stuff: http://www.rpural.net

I believe you can order from adafruit and before 10am tomorrow (Thanks 
Susan) and it should arrive Friday!

==>brian.

From harlan at bloomenterprises.org  Wed Apr 24 09:32:58 2013
From: harlan at bloomenterprises.org (Harlan H. Bloom)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:32:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>
	<E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>
	<CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <95678522.13535.1366813978415.JavaMail.root@bloomenterprises.org>

I may be naive, but where (street address) is this vending machine?  Is this an actual vending machine, or a euphemism, such as someone just selling them?

Thanks...

----- Original Message -----
From: "T L" <tlunde at gmail.com>
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 11:14:35 PM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop

Or, go to the vending machine at TC Maker and buy one there. 

$50, but no shipping & it includes tax. 

Thomas 


On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Susan < susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com > wrote: 


I just want to emphasis, in case ppl are quickly scanning these emails/list, as I normally do... 

Youur order must be placed w/Adafruit TOMORROW, by 10am CST, next day air, & next day air only, to get it by Friday. 

Shipping is about $30 on next day mail. 

My apologies for the multiple emails!!! 

:-) 
Susan Stewart 

_______________________________________________ 
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tlunde at gmail.com  Wed Apr 24 10:42:38 2013
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:42:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
In-Reply-To: <95678522.13535.1366813978415.JavaMail.root@bloomenterprises.org>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>
	<E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>
	<CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<95678522.13535.1366813978415.JavaMail.root@bloomenterprises.org>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Not a euphemism:
http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/index.php?s=vending&Submit=Search

Also, TC Maker has an open house every Wednesday night.  So, go there
tonight at 7 p.m.:
http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/calendar/

Sadly, the inventory isn't updated in real time but I saw a couple of Pi in
there the last time I was at the hackerspace.

The address is on the right side of this page:
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Twin_Cities_Maker

Thomas




On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Harlan H. Bloom <
harlan at bloomenterprises.org> wrote:

> I may be naive, but where (street address) is this vending machine?  Is
> this an actual vending machine, or a euphemism, such as someone just
> selling them?
>
> Thanks...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "T L" <tlunde at gmail.com>
> To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 11:14:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
>
> Or, go to the vending machine at TC Maker and buy one there.
>
> $50, but no shipping & it includes tax.
>
> Thomas
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Susan < susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com >
> wrote:
>
>
> I just want to emphasis, in case ppl are quickly scanning these
> emails/list, as I normally do...
>
> Youur order must be placed w/Adafruit TOMORROW, by 10am CST, next day air,
> & next day air only, to get it by Friday.
>
> Shipping is about $30 on next day mail.
>
> My apologies for the multiple emails!!!
>
> :-)
> Susan Stewart
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From ubusum at ymail.com  Wed Apr 24 16:03:33 2013
From: ubusum at ymail.com (Ubu Sumner)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 14:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>
	<E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>
	<CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<95678522.13535.1366813978415.JavaMail.root@bloomenterprises.org>
	<CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?

An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation control.

Seems as if the market's already there. Here's a very real list of gadgets for the garden written with a bit of tongue in cheek (everything from drones to scare away raccoons to e-pollinators to replace bees):


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/technology/personaltech/calling-on-gadgetry-to-keep-the-garden-growing.html


(I am now wondering what automation would do to my interest in the gardening process!)

And in an area I have even less experience, I've imagined a RPi controlled popcorn popper to custom roast coffee beans, heat sensor based and programmable.

What's your nutty, or not so nutty project?
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Wed Apr 24 19:44:49 2013
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:44:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
In-Reply-To: <1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>
	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>
	<E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>
	<CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<95678522.13535.1366813978415.JavaMail.root@bloomenterprises.org>
	<CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPkqCL3KqDNSPeHgGs54EqXk3BH09u=RP2DPMWrJXBfeBA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Ubu Sumner <ubusum at ymail.com> wrote:

> Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?
>
> An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation
> control.
>

Along those lines, perhaps an automatic pet feeding/watering gadget.

How about a programmable morse code generator/receiver/trainer with lights
and sound (so deaf people can enjoy learning morse code).

Or perhaps an upgraded binary clock, with time zone selection and NTP.

Shoot... wish I had time these days to geek out on one.
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From eng at pinenet.com  Wed Apr 24 20:07:03 2013
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 20:07:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
In-Reply-To: <1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>	<E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>	<CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>	<95678522.13535.1366813978415.JavaMail.root@bloomenterprises.org>	<CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <517881B7.90703@pinenet.com>

A year or so ago I asked this group if anybody knew of a local 
proto-board maker. I was playing with 8 bit Atmel-AVR microcontrollers, 
assembly language, freepascal on linux, and the RS232 port. There was 
one or two suggestions.

Then the Raspberry-Pi showed up about 10 steps more advanced with bells 
and whistles, using linux.

Now I'm playing with crummy timers (when used below 1 msec) and the 
wonderful XForms windowing library on linux. They (XForms) have a nice 
stripchart demo, and could be a great display signal-analyzer, but linux 
on a big motherboard has a timing mind of its own.

I'm still looking for cheap, slave, real time terminal proto-boards to 
control from a $100 p4 linux box. I don't know if the Raspberry Pi can 
run open-DOS?

But maybe I should instead consider hooking a Raspberry-Pi to a 
wheelchair so I can zone out watching 1960s TV shows and summon help at 
a nursing home.

Lots of fun seeing new people enjoy this great new hobby kit. A real winner.

Ubu Sumner wrote:
> Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?
>
> An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation control.
>
> Seems as if the market's already there. Here's a very real list of gadgets for the garden written with a bit of tongue in cheek (everything from drones to scare away raccoons to e-pollinators to replace bees):
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/technology/personaltech/calling-on-gadgetry-to-keep-the-garden-growing.html
>
>
> (I am now wondering what automation would do to my interest in the gardening process!)
>
> And in an area I have even less experience, I've imagined a RPi controlled popcorn popper to custom roast coffee beans, heat sensor based and programmable.
>
> What's your nutty, or not so nutty project?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Wed Apr 24 21:08:21 2013
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:08:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
In-Reply-To: <1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <38B517F3-43B7-4C97-80A9-2138348EA6D0@gmail.com>	<B4C733E5-8457-4A8F-9744-5B31E8B69F27@gmail.com>	<E68AB2CB-9956-4B24-8322-C7D948848316@gmail.com>	<CAE0VmCwJB+jiRUV5HZtJQ0rL+iVFm=hYcaUj-D+1+F=YQfYR5Q@mail.gmail.com>	<95678522.13535.1366813978415.JavaMail.root@bloomenterprises.org>	<CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <51789015.8020708@Goecke-Dolan.com>


I was thinking about something that would let me know if my garage door 
is open.  I have a detached garage and forget to close the door now and 
then.  Something that could run a couple check, light level in the 
garage, contact switch to see if garage door seems to be down, maybe 
take a snap shot if the door isn't down and email/text it to me..  Looks 
like you could a a pressure sensor to see if the car is in the garage, 
or maybe proximity sensor...

Then it could attempt to close the garage door, and send results if it 
fails... ?

A few idea's, but something I would like to have.

BTW there was a cat feeder at the tcmaker page done with the pi,
http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/2013/03/raspberry-pi-powered-cat-feeder/


==>brian.

On 04/24/2013 04:03 PM, Ubu Sumner wrote:
> Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?
>
> An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation
> control.
>
> Seems as if the market's already there. Here's a very real list of
> gadgets for the garden written with a bit of tongue in cheek (everything
> from drones to scare away raccoons to e-pollinators to replace bees):
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/technology/personaltech/calling-on-gadgetry-to-keep-the-garden-growing.html
>
> (I am now wondering what automation would do to my interest in the
> gardening process!)
>
> And in an area I have even less experience, I've imagined a RPi
> controlled popcorn popper to custom roast coffee beans, heat sensor
> based and programmable.
>
> What's your nutty, or not so nutty project?
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 25 00:43:58 2013
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 00:43:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 19
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1366822802.2421.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3.1366822802.2421.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W35E2C8C6739BF44C8D0D2A99B60@phx.gbl>

I am a noob I was wondering about listening in on command lines and stuff.

> From: tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 19
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:00:02 -0500
> 
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: RPi Workshop (T L)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:42:38 -0500
> From: T L <tlunde at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Not a euphemism:
> http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/index.php?s=vending&Submit=Search
> 
> Also, TC Maker has an open house every Wednesday night.  So, go there
> tonight at 7 p.m.:
> http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/calendar/
> 
> Sadly, the inventory isn't updated in real time but I saw a couple of Pi in
> there the last time I was at the hackerspace.
> 
> The address is on the right side of this page:
> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Twin_Cities_Maker
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Harlan H. Bloom <
> harlan at bloomenterprises.org> wrote:
> 
> > I may be naive, but where (street address) is this vending machine?  Is
> > this an actual vending machine, or a euphemism, such as someone just
> > selling them?
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "T L" <tlunde at gmail.com>
> > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 11:14:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
> >
> > Or, go to the vending machine at TC Maker and buy one there.
> >
> > $50, but no shipping & it includes tax.
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Susan < susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just want to emphasis, in case ppl are quickly scanning these
> > emails/list, as I normally do...
> >
> > Youur order must be placed w/Adafruit TOMORROW, by 10am CST, next day air,
> > & next day air only, to get it by Friday.
> >
> > Shipping is about $30 on next day mail.
> >
> > My apologies for the multiple emails!!!
> >
> > :-)
> > Susan Stewart
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 19
> *******************************************
 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 25 00:52:46 2013
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 00:52:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 20
In-Reply-To: <mailman.675.1366868664.1346.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.675.1366868664.1346.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W7DB6AE3AE98B8620DF7CD99B60@phx.gbl>

Would anyone be able to work with me on permissions and command lines? I do have a good ability to use chmod and chown I find the 'find' command a bit heavy for myself I need your help.

> From: tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 20
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 00:44:24 -0500
> 
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: RPi Workshop - What's your project? (Ubu Sumner)
>    2. Re: RPi Workshop - What's your project? (Brian Wall)
>    3. Re: RPi Workshop - What's your project? (Rick Engebretson)
>    4. Re: RPi Workshop - What's your project? (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
>    5. Re: tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 19 (Paul graf)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 14:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ubu Sumner <ubusum at ymail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
> Message-ID:
> 	<1366837413.15303.YahooMailNeo at web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?
> 
> An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation control.
> 
> Seems as if the market's already there. Here's a very real list of gadgets for the garden written with a bit of tongue in cheek (everything from drones to scare away raccoons to e-pollinators to replace bees):
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/technology/personaltech/calling-on-gadgetry-to-keep-the-garden-growing.html
> 
> 
> (I am now wondering what automation would do to my interest in the gardening process!)
> 
> And in an area I have even less experience, I've imagined a RPi controlled popcorn popper to custom roast coffee beans, heat sensor based and programmable.
> 
> What's your nutty, or not so nutty project?
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:44:49 -0500
> From: Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAB3QoPkqCL3KqDNSPeHgGs54EqXk3BH09u=RP2DPMWrJXBfeBA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Ubu Sumner <ubusum at ymail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?
> >
> > An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation
> > control.
> >
> 
> Along those lines, perhaps an automatic pet feeding/watering gadget.
> 
> How about a programmable morse code generator/receiver/trainer with lights
> and sound (so deaf people can enjoy learning morse code).
> 
> Or perhaps an upgraded binary clock, with time zone selection and NTP.
> 
> Shoot... wish I had time these days to geek out on one.
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 20:07:03 -0500
> From: Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
> Message-ID: <517881B7.90703 at pinenet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> A year or so ago I asked this group if anybody knew of a local 
> proto-board maker. I was playing with 8 bit Atmel-AVR microcontrollers, 
> assembly language, freepascal on linux, and the RS232 port. There was 
> one or two suggestions.
> 
> Then the Raspberry-Pi showed up about 10 steps more advanced with bells 
> and whistles, using linux.
> 
> Now I'm playing with crummy timers (when used below 1 msec) and the 
> wonderful XForms windowing library on linux. They (XForms) have a nice 
> stripchart demo, and could be a great display signal-analyzer, but linux 
> on a big motherboard has a timing mind of its own.
> 
> I'm still looking for cheap, slave, real time terminal proto-boards to 
> control from a $100 p4 linux box. I don't know if the Raspberry Pi can 
> run open-DOS?
> 
> But maybe I should instead consider hooking a Raspberry-Pi to a 
> wheelchair so I can zone out watching 1960s TV shows and summon help at 
> a nursing home.
> 
> Lots of fun seeing new people enjoy this great new hobby kit. A real winner.
> 
> Ubu Sumner wrote:
> > Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?
> >
> > An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation control.
> >
> > Seems as if the market's already there. Here's a very real list of gadgets for the garden written with a bit of tongue in cheek (everything from drones to scare away raccoons to e-pollinators to replace bees):
> >
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/technology/personaltech/calling-on-gadgetry-to-keep-the-garden-growing.html
> >
> >
> > (I am now wondering what automation would do to my interest in the gardening process!)
> >
> > And in an area I have even less experience, I've imagined a RPi controlled popcorn popper to custom roast coffee beans, heat sensor based and programmable.
> >
> > What's your nutty, or not so nutty project?
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:08:21 -0500
> From: Brian Dolan-Goecke <goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com>
> To: Ubu Sumner <ubusum at ymail.com>, TCLUG Mailing List
> 	<tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop - What's your project?
> Message-ID: <51789015.8020708 at Goecke-Dolan.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> 
> I was thinking about something that would let me know if my garage door 
> is open.  I have a detached garage and forget to close the door now and 
> then.  Something that could run a couple check, light level in the 
> garage, contact switch to see if garage door seems to be down, maybe 
> take a snap shot if the door isn't down and email/text it to me..  Looks 
> like you could a a pressure sensor to see if the car is in the garage, 
> or maybe proximity sensor...
> 
> Then it could attempt to close the garage door, and send results if it 
> fails... ?
> 
> A few idea's, but something I would like to have.
> 
> BTW there was a cat feeder at the tcmaker page done with the pi,
> http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/2013/03/raspberry-pi-powered-cat-feeder/
> 
> 
> ==>brian.
> 
> On 04/24/2013 04:03 PM, Ubu Sumner wrote:
> > Would you care to share your ideas for RPi projects?
> >
> > An idea I had was a garden weather station with responsive irrigation
> > control.
> >
> > Seems as if the market's already there. Here's a very real list of
> > gadgets for the garden written with a bit of tongue in cheek (everything
> > from drones to scare away raccoons to e-pollinators to replace bees):
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/technology/personaltech/calling-on-gadgetry-to-keep-the-garden-growing.html
> >
> > (I am now wondering what automation would do to my interest in the
> > gardening process!)
> >
> > And in an area I have even less experience, I've imagined a RPi
> > controlled popcorn popper to custom roast coffee beans, heat sensor
> > based and programmable.
> >
> > What's your nutty, or not so nutty project?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 00:43:58 -0500
> From: Paul graf <pj.world at hotmail.com>
> To: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 19
> Message-ID: <BAY175-W35E2C8C6739BF44C8D0D2A99B60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I am a noob I was wondering about listening in on command lines and stuff.
> 
> > From: tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 19
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:00:02 -0500
> > 
> > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> > 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. Re: RPi Workshop (T L)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:42:38 -0500
> > From: T L <tlunde at gmail.com>
> > To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
> > Message-ID:
> > 	<CAE0VmCwPBZP5DLUnuu_-4kHgqHNCEKF-TdrJ_r1zhZYYEcfw+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Not a euphemism:
> > http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/index.php?s=vending&Submit=Search
> > 
> > Also, TC Maker has an open house every Wednesday night.  So, go there
> > tonight at 7 p.m.:
> > http://www.tcmaker.org/blog/calendar/
> > 
> > Sadly, the inventory isn't updated in real time but I saw a couple of Pi in
> > there the last time I was at the hackerspace.
> > 
> > The address is on the right side of this page:
> > http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Twin_Cities_Maker
> > 
> > Thomas
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Harlan H. Bloom <
> > harlan at bloomenterprises.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > I may be naive, but where (street address) is this vending machine?  Is
> > > this an actual vending machine, or a euphemism, such as someone just
> > > selling them?
> > >
> > > Thanks...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "T L" <tlunde at gmail.com>
> > > To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 11:14:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] RPi Workshop
> > >
> > > Or, go to the vending machine at TC Maker and buy one there.
> > >
> > > $50, but no shipping & it includes tax.
> > >
> > > Thomas
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Susan < susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I just want to emphasis, in case ppl are quickly scanning these
> > > emails/list, as I normally do...
> > >
> > > Youur order must be placed w/Adafruit TOMORROW, by 10am CST, next day air,
> > > & next day air only, to get it by Friday.
> > >
> > > Shipping is about $30 on next day mail.
> > >
> > > My apologies for the multiple emails!!!
> > >
> > > :-)
> > > Susan Stewart
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 19
> > *******************************************
>  		 	   		  
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> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 20
> *******************************************
 		 	   		  
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From florin at iucha.net  Thu Apr 25 08:04:50 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 08:04:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] help with command line / find  Was: digest
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W7DB6AE3AE98B8620DF7CD99B60@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.675.1366868664.1346.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<BAY175-W7DB6AE3AE98B8620DF7CD99B60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20130425130450.GZ19193@signbit.net>

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:52:46AM -0500, Paul graf wrote:
> Would anyone be able to work with me on permissions and command
> lines? I do have a good ability to use chmod and chown I find the
> 'find' command a bit heavy for myself I need your help.

What are you trying to find?  Try to describe it in plain English and
I'm sure we'll be able to give you the right incantation.

Cheers,
florin

PS: Please delete all the text in the message that is not relevant
to the question you are asking.  It will direct our eyes to what is
important to you, and make it easier to help you.

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 12:10:09 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 12:10:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] help with command line / find  Was: digest
In-Reply-To: <20130425130450.GZ19193@signbit.net>
References: <mailman.675.1366868664.1346.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<BAY175-W7DB6AE3AE98B8620DF7CD99B60@phx.gbl>
	<20130425130450.GZ19193@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1304251207190.11917@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013, Florin Iucha wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:52:46AM -0500, Paul graf wrote:
>
>> Would anyone be able to work with me on permissions and command lines? 
>> I do have a good ability to use chmod and chown I find the 'find' 
>> command a bit heavy for myself I need your help.
>
> What are you trying to find?  Try to describe it in plain English and 
> I'm sure we'll be able to give you the right incantation.
>
> Cheers,
> florin
>
> PS: Please delete all the text in the message that is not relevant to 
> the question you are asking.  It will direct our eyes to what is 
> important to you, and make it easier to help you.

Thanks, Florin.  That is all very good advice that would help a lot.

I also wanted to help but was unsure of what to say.  I don't really know 
what this is about...

"I am a noob I was wondering about listening in on command lines and 
stuff."

...but it sounds intriguing.  So a longer message explaining what you're 
trying to do would probably work for you.  I don't know if the question is 
about snooping on another user's shell, or about the bash history, or 
something else.

Mike

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 25 23:50:36 2013
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 23:50:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 100, Issue 22
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1366909201.14046.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1366909201.14046.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <BAY175-W1003C34CD7F0DD9E1122C599B70@phx.gbl>

I would like to study the 'man find' command with another person 's who are interested in the command. Finding files that have been modified and sent to folders on a certain date in time. The 'find' command is very powerful I believe. I would enjoy a workshop and to listen and be able to talk with others 'such as yourself'. I am sorry to not send my message clearly I have no formal education. 

Thank you,
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 08:04:50 -0500
> From: Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] help with command line / find  Was: digest
> Message-ID: <20130425130450.GZ19193 at signbit.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:52:46AM -0500, Paul graf wrote:
> > Would anyone be able to work with me on permissions and command
> > lines? I do have a good ability to use chmod and chown I find the
> > 'find' command a bit heavy for myself I need your help.
> 
> What are you trying to find?  Try to describe it in plain English and
> I'm sure we'll be able to give you the right incantation.
> 
> Cheers,
> florin
> 
> PS: Please delete all the text in the message that is not relevant
> to the question you are asking.  It will direct our eyes to what is
> important to you, and make it easier to help you.

 		 	   		  
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From florin at iucha.net  Fri Apr 26 01:47:27 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:47:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] learning the 'find' command
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W1003C34CD7F0DD9E1122C599B70@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1366909201.14046.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<BAY175-W1003C34CD7F0DD9E1122C599B70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20130426064727.GF19193@signbit.net>

Paul,

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:50:36PM -0500, Paul graf wrote:
> I would like to study the 'man find' command with another person
> 's who are interested in the command.  Finding files that have been
> modified and sent to folders on a certain date in time.

Do you know the date, or the folders?

Find does not take an argument specifying the date (such as 4/1/2013),
but it takes a 'how long ago' argument expressed in hours or minutes
(mtime/mmin).

Now, we need to find out how many minutes ago was "4/1/2013 18:05" .
For this we use 'date':

   date -d "4/1/2013 18:05" +%s

This invocation returns how many seconds passed between 1/1/1970 and
the desired date.  To find out how many seconds ago it was, you
subtract that date from today's date:

   echo \( `date +%s` - `date -d "4/1/2013 18:05" +%s` \) \/ 60 | bc

When I just ran that command, I got back 35013. Given that 24 days *
24 hours * 60 minutes = 34560, the number seems to be in the ballpark ;)

Now, we can plug that number in the call to find:

   find /path/to/top/directory -mtime -35013

>                                                          The 'find'
> command is very powerful I believe. I would enjoy a workshop and to
> listen and be able to talk with others 'such as yourself'.

The best chance would be to go to the Penguins Unbound meetings and
ask if somebody can explain or show some commands to you.  Second best
is to ask questions on the mailing list.  Most people are friendly and
helpful but to help them help you, please read:

   http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

(Thank you for the aside, but it will be a while until I'm back in
Minnesota.)

>                                                             I am sorry
> to not send my message clearly I have no formal education.

It's never too late to learn.

Cheers,
florin


-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Apr 26 02:32:25 2013
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 02:32:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] **Saturday** Penguins Unbound Raspberry Pi-Day April 27
Message-ID: <517A2D89.10605@Goecke-Dolan.com>


**** Raspberry Pi's @MicroCenter ****
I was just informed tonight, that Micro Center has about 10 Maker Shed 
"Raspberry Pi Starter Kit" in stock NOW! So if you haven't got your 
Raspberry Pi yet, make your way out to MicroCenter NOW and get one! 
(These kits are $124, but they come with all you will need to get 
started along with quite a bit of extra stuff, including some of the 
parts needed for the Blink-n-Light)
**** Raspberry Pi's @MicroCenter ****

    "Raspberry Pi Day" at Penguins Unbound Meeting
           APRIL 27th 2013!


Raspberry Pi Day will be a whole day (9:00am to 5:00pm) dedicated to 
working with and learning about the Raspberry Pi !

This will be hands-on, so bring your Raspberry Pi and follow along with 
your own Raspberry Pi!

Here is the agenda so far:

  9:00 - 11:30 - Starting with your Pi (by Brian Dolan-Goecke)
   Step-by-Step to get you started with your Raspberry Pi. What you need
   to know to get set up, to start loading and working with the basics
   with your Raspberry Pi.

  11:30 - 1:00 - Lunch
   For Lunch, we will order pizza for all who would like to go in on
   buying some pizza. ( You are also welcome to bring your own lunch or
   go somewhere else.)

   Afternoon sessions:

  1:00 - 2:45 Blink'n Lights (by )
   Using several things on the breadboard (RGB LED control, temperature
   and humidity sensing, light sensing, reading a switch), plus it could
   be added to on the fly as well, if there are any interesting ideas.
   (It would be useful to have a Adafruit Pi Cobbler Breakout Kit,
    http://www.adafruit.com/products/914 )

   Or
  1:00 - 2:45 ???? Hope to add another session ????


  3:00 - 4:45 XBMC on the Raspberry Pi (by Brian Dolan-Goecke)
   Load and working with XBMC. (if there is enough interest I will talk
   about this.)

  Or

  3:00 - 4:45 GPIO with C
   How to use C to program and use the GPIO pins on the Raspberry Pi.


  4:45 - 5:00 Raspberry Pie!
   Raspberry Pie, the kind you eat!

*** If you plan on going please sign up on the wiki.
http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Meetings/20130427_-_Pi_Day
***

*** If you or, if you know someone, that has worked with Raspberry Pi 
and would be willing to present (or help) at the meeting please contact 
Me (Brian Dolan-Goecke) from
http://www.goecke-dolan.com/Brian/sendmeail.php
***

Thanks I hope to see you there!

==>brian.


Be sure to order and get your Raspberry Pi today!
(*** it is probably too late to order one, but I understand MicroCenter 
has the kits mentioned below ****)

You can get a "Maker Shed" kit at MicroCenter
http://www.microcenter.com/product/402492/Raspberry_Pi_Starter_Kit
   (They were out of stock when I check earlier today. Be sure to select
the Minnesota store in the drop down list in the middle of the page 
header at the top.)

Here is more info about the "Maker Shed" kit
http://www.makershed.com/Raspberry_Pi_Starter_Kit_Includes_Raspberry_Pi_p/msrpik.htm

You can order from adafruit (they seem to have them in stock when I 
checked today)
http://adafruit.com/category/105
They also have several additional accessories, and project for the 
Raspberry Pi. They had several in stock on April 22nd with 3day shipping!

Jack Ungerleider mentioned you can get a Raspberry Pi here also
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/

I am sure there are many more places on the internet if you look

*** If you don't know what the Raspberry Pi is see these links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
http://www.raspberrypi.org/


From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Fri Apr 26 20:05:28 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan Stewart Davis)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 20:05:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Raspberry Pi Day
Message-ID: <CAA2hLpwxPFiZNmBmewabuvja124WpvjH4h8CLcSKP5pkHz_eDw@mail.gmail.com>

We got our RPi today, Adafruit's Starter Kit. My 14yo son had the case
assembled in under 10min!

Unfortunately, my 13yo daughter is in a STEM program at the SMM's Kitty
Andersen Youth Science Center which is requiring parents to attend a
meeting from 10AM - 1PM tomorrow. She told me this Thursday evening! Yep!

So my son opted to go to Lowertown's Art Crawl & we'll see about attending
the RPi workshop in Mpls next month.

I may try to stop in towards the end of the day, closer to 2pm. I checked
out 3 RPi books from Metro State U which I intended to bring.

Susan
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From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Sun Apr 28 19:05:59 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan Stewart Davis)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 19:05:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Kudos to Brian & all for RPi Day!
In-Reply-To: <CAA2hLpyxniykuACJRhUZPXpHJKn4yBonx=014ywjK_NvpvQttA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA2hLpxRHtcsAdxcmfwQXOgk7NTBdXKxDX3Y0M+zbXaYhJJLOA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA2hLpyxniykuACJRhUZPXpHJKn4yBonx=014ywjK_NvpvQttA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA2hLpwsfU1qdd10Wfic1SVKEgqU38Y7Lj=hJL2oXVQt4WGxsQ@mail.gmail.com>

The RPi workshop was totally worthwhile, even tho I only got to go for the
last 2.5 hours, so I missed all the presentations. :(

I arrived behind the eight-ball @2:30, without even a distro loaded on my
SDcard, Brian took care of that for me in short order to get me up &
running - thank you!

& another guy walked me through the setup. (Ugh - I'm really bad w/names &
faces, so please forgive me & please reintroduce yourself to me again at
the next meeting!)

I got Atari games & Libra office installed on the Raspbian desktop, talked
about projects - was told my streaming Netflix gamelan would be a no-go :-(

Also shared the library books I brought & ate homemade raspberry pie baked
Brian's wife. Mmmmmm!

Saturday I also showed my RPi to a very interested Staff Member for the
SMM's Kitty Anderson Youth Science Center, while there for a parent's
meeting prior to my arrival @TIES. I'll have to get to work on my RPi
skills because I volunteered to be a parent volunteer when they add the RPi
to their Arduinos in the Student Lab. :-)

& let me not to forget to mention, I got a one-on-one demo of the GPIO
interface by setting up lights on a breadboard (no soldering required if
you purchase Adafruit's Starter Kit.)

Again, I'm bad w/names/faces :(
So please know I appreciate it everything & forgive me for not shouting out
thank yous by name!

Susan
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From trieff at greencaremankato.com  Mon Apr 29 12:16:12 2013
From: trieff at greencaremankato.com (Thomas Rieff)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 12:16:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Rasberry PI Fest
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1367254801.23942.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1367254801.23942.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1923999346.1112934.1367255772922.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com>

??? 
Did you save the stream of the presentations??? 
Tom 

Thomas Rieff 
GreenCare 
1717 3rd Avenue 
Mankato, MN 56001 
(507) 344-8314 Office 
(507) 344-8316 Fax 
(507) 381-0660 Cell 


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From briandg at Goecke-Dolan.com  Mon Apr 29 13:24:58 2013
From: briandg at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian Dolan-Goecke)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:24:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Rasberry PI Fest
In-Reply-To: <1923999346.1112934.1367255772922.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com>
References: <mailman.1.1367254801.23942.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<1923999346.1112934.1367255772922.JavaMail.root@greencaremankato.com>
Message-ID: <517EBAFA.40204@Goecke-Dolan.com>

Tom,

I did not have an opportunity to record them.  And to be honest I don't 
think it would be very good viewing... there was a lot of time spent 
just helping people get set, ie plugging in all the parts, putting 
images on the flash cards... And other hands on stuff, that doesn't make 
good viewing..

Sorry..

I do have the "Not your Mother's Raspberry Pi" presentation online.  You 
can go meeting page, and then on the bottom there is a link to the 
video, and his slides are there.

http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Past_Meetings/20121117_-_Not_Your_Mother's_Raspberry_Pi

==>brian.

On 04/29/2013 12:16 PM, Thomas Rieff wrote:
> ???
> Did you save the stream of the presentations???
> Tom
>
> Thomas Rieff
> GreenCare
> 1717 3rd Avenue
> Mankato, MN 56001
> (507) 344-8314 Office
> (507) 344-8316 Fax
> (507) 381-0660 Cell
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


-- 
electrons are not important in nuclear chemistry

From susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 00:33:03 2013
From: susan.dawn.stewart at gmail.com (Susan Stewart Davis)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:33:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] PioneerPress: Computer-coding classes teach students
 skills they're not getting in school
Message-ID: <CAA2hLpw_MNUHqpcdU+w3vrAB4NjX2-cmL9QPy-S=XDuUL7b79w@mail.gmail.com>

I just read an article at the PioneerPress that I thought list members
might find interesting. It's called 'Computer-coding classes teach students
skills they're not getting in school': http://bit.ly/126gQLo.

Note: This ties in with the goals of the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

Susan
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