Actually he listed a 600VAC device. His intent was clear - to me. On Jun 23, 2013, at 21:08, Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> wrote: > I was definitely over the top for options, but Brian's original email > didn't say what the purpose was of the system, but he did seem to > indicate he wanted it to keep running for days at a time, not just > minutes. If it is a critical piece of hardware, the suggestions should > reflect that. > > But in general, if it is just a server PC at home or even a moderately > important server at a business, then a UPS with more load capability > or fewer minutes of backup time is an important consideration. But for > 99% of the systems, I don't see the need for anything beyond 10-15 > minutes of backup load support and a serial, USB, or network > connection to tell the server or computer(s) to shut down safely when > the battery time is half used.... > > Or look at it another way.... Why should I try to keep my server > running when my ISP has been dead for hours or days? Ask the people in > St Louis Park who are out of power still. Even cell sites usually only > have so much battery backup before the cell company needs to bring in > a motor generator of some sort. > > I've thought about this frequently. If there was a power outage, > winter or summer, having a backup generator to keep the fridge and > freezer running, enough to run the pump or fans on the furnace, and > maybe a few lights is all I'd really need. Something in the 4KW to 6KW > size if probably enough. But if I want to keep the whole house running > and all the computers and radio gear, I'd probably better be looking > for a 10KW to 15KW unit... $$$$.... > > Doug. > > On 6/23/13, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > <tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote: >> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Dealing with power outages (kaze0010 at umn.edu) >> 2. Re: Dealing with power outages (gregrwm) >> 3. Re: Dealing with power outages (Doug Reed) >> 4. Re: Dealing with power outages (Ryan Coleman) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: 22 Jun 2013 22:57:24 -0500 >> From: kaze0010 at umn.edu >> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> >> Cc: Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: <Gophermail.2.0.1306222257240.10880 at vs-m.tc.umn.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 >> >> How about a multipurpose, easily transportable, nearly always ready to go >> 3-5kW generator? 40 hour runtime at 1000 watt load. >> http://priups.com/ >> http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-as-a-generator-revisited.39613/ >> http://priuschat.com/threads/priups-using-the-prius-as-a-backup-generator.12430/ >> >> You can get some nice impressive runtimes with this option. These projected >> >> runtimes are based on measured fuel consumption at various loads. The >> second link above contains the same table in case this gets mangled in >> transit. >> >> kwh/month | Idle | User | Total | Tank | Runtime | Burnrate | Real kwh | >> Real | User kwh | User Load >> =avg base | Load | Load | Load | (gal) | (hrs) | gal/hr | Produced | >> Efficiency | Produced | Efficiency >> load | watts| watts| watts | | | | | | | >> >> 72 315.8 100 416 10 126.58 0.079 52.632 0.15949 12.658 0.038 >> 180 315.8 250 566 10 93.02 0.108 52.632 0.15949 23.256 0.070 >> 360 315.8 500 816 10 64.52 0.155 52.632 0.15949 32.258 0.098 >> 540 315.8 750 1066 10 49.38 0.203 52.632 0.15949 37.037 0.112 >> 720 315.8 1000 1316 10 40.00 0.250 52.632 0.15949 40.000 0.121 >> 1080 315.8 1500 1816 10 28.99 0.345 52.632 0.15949 43.478 0.132 >> 1440 315.8 2000 2316 10 22.73 0.440 52.632 0.15949 45.455 0.138 >> 1800 315.8 2500 2816 10 18.69 0.535 52.632 0.15949 46.729 0.142 >> 2160 315.8 3000 3316 10 15.87 0.630 52.632 0.15949 47.619 0.144 >> 2520 315.8 3500 3816 10 13.79 0.725 52.632 0.15949 48.276 0.146 >> 2880 315.8 4000 4316 10 12.20 0.820 52.632 0.15949 48.780 0.148 >> 3240 315.8 4500 4816 10 10.93 0.915 52.632 0.15949 49.180 0.149 >> 3600 315.8 5000 5316 10 9.90 1.010 52.632 0.15949 49.505 0.150 >> 3960 315.8 5500 5816 10 9.05 1.105 52.632 0.15949 49.774 0.151 >> 7200 315.8 10000 10316 10 5.10 1.960 52.632 0.15949 51.020 0.155 >> >> >> >> On Jun 22 2013, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>> IDK, that's not a lot of juice on that, Brian... >>> >>> What's the VAC rating of your UPS? My 1500 ran over 100 minutes when I >>> turned off my server - it was at 23 minutes before that. >>> >>> On 6/22/2013 4:57 PM, Brian Wood wrote: >>>> Yesterday evening the power at my office went out and was >>>> off for about 8 hours. My APC UPS lasted for about 50 minutes >>>> of that. I'm thinking about buying a Duracell emergency power >>>> source. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP600-Powerpack-Starter-Emergency/dp/B009YR00MI/ref=pd_sim_auto_5#productDetails >>>> >>>> The instructions for the APC UPS say to only plug it directly >>>> into a wall socket. I'm wondering if I could plug the Duracell >>>> thing into the APC UPS and then plug my computer stuff to that. >>>> >>>> The alternative is to use them one at a time and manually switch >>>> from the APC UPS to the Duracell thing when the APC UPS is almost >>>> dead. I was around last evening so it wouldn't have been a problem, >>>> but if chaining them would work, it wouldn't matter if I wasn't around. >>>> >>>> I'm also thinking about bicycle generator systems: >>>> http://www.pedalpowergenerator.com/ >>>> >>>> I've seen Frank and Amelia use something like that at the State Fair. >>>> >>>> What do you think? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Brian Wood >>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us. >>>> http://webEbenezer.net >>>> >>>> >>>> If you're thinking of buying something over the internet, you might >>>> want to buy it before the DFL taxes on online purchases kick in on >>>> July1st. I think prices will increase by 6.5% after that. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:25:46 -0500 >> From: gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> >> Cc: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: >> <CAD+dB9BO+wDagz4K=JxEKdS12MHdv+Qa3oXZy3=TGe9+fZexkg at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> how about a couple solar panels? plus batteries if you want, or, take the >> attitude that if the sun isn't shining, it must be time to take a break. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20130623/59fb5367/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:22:16 -0500 >> From: Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: >> <CAL+RLOQXZO5WscdECX8ykFNWpz6DomwaVnbUFMvDqYHqqPy6JQ at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi Brian. >> >> My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a >> short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a >> really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage >> anyway. >> >> In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer >> system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended >> run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him >> maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be >> sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. >> >> If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to >> buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an >> automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. >> On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for >> the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG >> being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a >> propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, >> gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. >> In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... Many >> companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel >> has too many design challenges in our winter environment. >> >> For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is >> standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the >> generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the >> tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days >> before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. >> >> Doug. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:28:05 -0500 >> From: Ryan Coleman <ryanjcole at me.com> >> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> >> Cc: "tclug-list at mn-linux.org" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dealing with power outages >> Message-ID: <043D764E-AE0E-41BA-925A-AAD22ACBB9A0 at me.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I think we're all over thinking this. >> >> >> >> On Jun 23, 2013, at 2:22, Doug Reed <n0nas at amsat.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Brian. >>> >>> My take on UPS systems is that they are only useful to ride out a >>> short outage so the computer can be shut down properly. Without a >>> really huge battery system you will not ride out a really long outage >>> anyway. >>> >>> In my hobby work, a friend puts a cheap UPS on each radio+computer >>> system he installs. He used to buy expensive UPSes to get extended >>> run time. Now he just buys the cheapest one that will give him >>> maybe 10 minutes backup time to carry over on a short outage. Just be >>> sure to hook it up for auto-shutdown on the computer. >>> >>> If it is critical to keep the system up full time, then you need to >>> buy and install a generator system with automatic-start and an >>> automatic-transfer switch that runs on natural gas or maybe propane. >>> On natural gas you are likely to have a long term supply of fuel for >>> the generator. But if you are worried about the possibility of NG >>> being shut off in an emergency, then you may want to buy a >>> propane-based generator instead. For a long-term emergency backup, >>> gasoline is least desirable. Diesel is just a little bit better. >>> In my opinion, propane and NG are the best for long-term stability.... >>> Many >>> companies go with diesel systems for other reasons.... I think diesel >>> has too many design challenges in our winter environment. >>> >>> For some of the radio sites I know, a 15KW propane-fired generator is >>> standard and it needs a minimum 500 gallon propane tank to support the >>> generator at full load and should run for about 3 to 5 days before the >>> tank needs to be refilled. At lower load it might run for 8 to 10 days >>> before refilling.... But that is a really serious annual expense. >>> >>> Doug. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 102, Issue 30 >> ******************************************* > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list