From droidjd at gmail.com  Fri Mar  1 03:49:34 2013
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 03:49:34 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user
In-Reply-To: <CANNReEEcrRgEo=3r_4AURsb28vrDdpsZCdP5rTTxw2rb5ArkTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1302281649580.4273@dragon>
	<CACEdYO1P1V3Fr3MRfz9c5z8=Sz+Tb78Qmz+ETp5GWct27en8+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANNReEEcrRgEo=3r_4AURsb28vrDdpsZCdP5rTTxw2rb5ArkTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdyR22ePAUCKtR3V_9X8f7OdriSb07FJH0L6HjE6k2pg9g@mail.gmail.com>

I've used http://www.taxslayer.com/ for the last few years without any
issue.

-Andrew


On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Erik Mitchell <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>wrote:

> I've used TaxAct because it doesn't complain about OS/Browser. 2005
> was probably the first year I used it, with Linux.
>
> -Erik
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson
> <jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> > For web based software practically all work.Turbo Tax and H&R Block
> > complain about the OS, but you hit continue and it works just fine.
> > I've done both myself without any issues over the years with Linux.
> >
> > --
> > Jeremy MountainJohnson
> > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> As far as I know, there's no native Linux tax software that can file
> electronically.. if there's even any tax software at all.
> >>
> >> For many years I've used TaxAct in a virtualbox/vmware. That worked
> fine. TaxAct online should be fine too.
> >>
> >> Last year I had a huge mixup so I had to use an actual CPA. This year
> even though everything's back to normal I figured I'd use a CPA /and/ do
> TaxAct online, and compare the two. My taxes are pretty simple and
> straightforward, really, but the CPA got me a bit more money back. This
> amount pretty much lined up with how muc moer the CPA cost than TaxAct did,
> but it came wth the piece of mind of knowing I didn't do ANY of the
> number-work.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Jason Hsu wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes
> electronically instead of on paper.  This would save me the hassle of
> filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in
> the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc.
> >>>
> >>> If you use tax software, what do you use that's available for Linux
> users?  What are my options?
> >>>
> >>> I'm also considering filing my taxes online.  What precautions (in
> addition to avoiding public wifi hotspots, using a firewall, using a secure
> pasword, etc.) do I need to take to ensure my security?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  1 10:33:39 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 10:33:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvLy0fpc4qCP8D_hY3iNtNZs-BoLM1M4f5roy9Es=Yi-Q@mail.gmail.com>

I've used Taxhawk.com for a number of years.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - Proverbs 3:5,6
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  1 11:26:18 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 11:26:18 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] UDT?
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtRGNw=GUm2tFcUwxSuoQbSpfuE53-R25U7bV8pZGBvZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have experience using UDT?
http://udt.sourceforge.net/

Did you replace TCP or UDP with UDT?
Someone suggested I consider using UDT, so
am checking into it.  Currently I'm using both
TCP and UDP -- TCP between my back and
middle tiers and UDP between the middle and
front tiers.  I guess I could use UDT to replace
either or both of those uses.  Tia.


-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - John 3:16.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Fri Mar  1 20:09:10 2013
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 20:09:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] UDT?
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtRGNw=GUm2tFcUwxSuoQbSpfuE53-R25U7bV8pZGBvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtRGNw=GUm2tFcUwxSuoQbSpfuE53-R25U7bV8pZGBvZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08o6i=hY2cx2AQpm=bgzHWGE9tqJv=wKnRJBD3x5mrvKWA@mail.gmail.com>

UDT is not a replacement for TCP or UDP - it is a data transfer protocol
built on top of UDP, with some additional TCP-like features to aid in data
integrity (negative ACKs to be specific).

I've never used UDT, so I can't speak specifically about it. In general,
though, my feelings on technologies like this is that they're great to
consider, if and only if they would solve a specific problem you're having.
This isn't something you'd want to put into production just for the fun of
it. If you have a very high-speed network, say 10Gbps+, and you're
schlepping a *lot* of data around, it may be worth implementing.


On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have experience using UDT?
> http://udt.sourceforge.net/
>
> Did you replace TCP or UDP with UDT?
> Someone suggested I consider using UDT, so
> am checking into it.  Currently I'm using both
> TCP and UDP -- TCP between my back and
> middle tiers and UDP between the middle and
> front tiers.  I guess I could use UDT to replace
> either or both of those uses.  Tia.
>
>
> --
> Brian Wood
> Ebenezer Enterprises - John 3:16.
> http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Fri Mar  1 21:46:23 2013
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:46:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user
In-Reply-To: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com>
References: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPkyFeNfXLtHhpzM7iY7B6ZGczfEgCstrPpPAhKU7kdr_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes electronically instead of on paper.  This would save me the hassle of filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc.

Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I've used a CPA the
last three years and I'll never go back to doing my own taxes.  My CPA
costs me $125 and easily finds enough deductions to recoup that.

Brian

From john.meier at gmail.com  Sat Mar  2 07:07:16 2013
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 07:07:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoPkyFeNfXLtHhpzM7iY7B6ZGczfEgCstrPpPAhKU7kdr_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20130228152114.6edcaa77a7308aea19decbca@jasonhsu.com>
	<CAB3QoPkyFeNfXLtHhpzM7iY7B6ZGczfEgCstrPpPAhKU7kdr_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL0Bt08+ChgsVTD03dT3X0-LMMZ47iJf5KGqiFjqAmGkEMDt5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> wrote:
> > I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes
> electronically instead of on paper.  This would save me the hassle of
> filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in
> the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc.
>
> Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I've used a CPA the
> last three years and I'll never go back to doing my own taxes.  My CPA
> costs me $125 and easily finds enough deductions to recoup that.
>
>
+1 on that.  No contest.

Shoot, once I incorporated, my tax dude does my personal side for
nothin'....
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From hmeyers4 at comcast.net  Sat Mar  2 11:37:37 2013
From: hmeyers4 at comcast.net (Hal Meyers)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 11:37:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Paul a noob with Debian
In-Reply-To: <COL121-W33F01F6137718A4C55D92499FE0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL121-W33F01F6137718A4C55D92499FE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000001ce176c$a1d300f0$e57902d0$@comcast.net>

Hello Paul,

 

I was hoping to respond back sooner but busy week for me at work. I have
installed Debian recently on a Raspberry Pi  and then on my Dell 1747. The
1747 dual boost with Windows 7. You will probably get better responses if
you ask specific questions around your setup and hardware.  Best Regards.
Hal

 

Paul wrote: 

Hello, my name is Paul I have been working with Debian Based hardware setup
alone. I would enjoy talking with other Linux and Unix users in my area of
the Twin Cities.

Thank you, 

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From augie.k.k at gmail.com  Sat Mar  2 14:24:48 2013
From: augie.k.k at gmail.com (Augie kk)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 14:24:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Paul a noob with Debian
Message-ID: <CAEoQ-6F_mwOQy+divbq1aob9+2Dqn72i1pB0+6KFUnAzcyaAbQ@mail.gmail.com>

I hope I'm posting this correctly, I just signed up yesterday.  I've been
wanting to find some linux users here in the cities to share knowledge with.

I recently installed Linux Mint Debian Edition (or LMDE).  This is a
rolling distribution based on Debian Testing.  I would recommend this
distro to any newcomer.  It's highly customizable, and full featured.

The install is basic, no problems.

There are a few desktop environments that this comes with, I prefer XFCE.
 I was a dedicated Ubuntu user for years until they came out with Unity.

I have since moved on to Arch, but that's for another post.

If this posting is incorrect, please let me know.

-August
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sat Mar  2 14:25:36 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 20:25:36 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] UDT?
Message-ID: <CABWFOjsQFeinJcHgHyhYFeCbjQ_bTLmddSrrd9-hdjVnWQA8BQ@mail.gmail.com>

Erik Anderson:

> UDT is not a replacement for TCP or UDP - it is a data transfer protocol
> built on top of UDP, with some additional TCP-like features to aid in data
> integrity (negative ACKs to be specific).
>

I understand that UDT isn't part of the kernel, but am not
sure why you disagree with the term replace.
Here's an exchange I found on a forum.  The UDT author
replies to the question with 3 paragraphs.

"Can you provide some data on how the protocol overhead
compares to TCP?"

The UDT packet header is 4 bytes longer than TCP
(UDT/UDP/IP headers vs TCP/IP headers). Since UDT is at
user space, it uses more CPU (up to 2x, especially at low
throughput: the design of UDT makes it more efficient at
higher throughput) and also likely more memory buffers
are required (exact number is application specific but
usually it should not require significant more buffers).

The TCP's throughput usually suffers significantly from
packet loss over long distance links due to its congestion
control algorithm. UDT has a new algorithm that can
overcome the problem.

I am not recommending completely replacing TCP with
UDT. Instead, I think UDT can be a nice alternative as a
user option or when TCP connections cannot be setup
(e.g., due to firewall) or perform too poorly.

------------  end of UDT author's reply -------------

Perhaps the person who suggested I consider UDT was
thinking about the long distance links the UDT author
mentions there.  Currently I have one location to serve
the world...

> I've never used UDT, so I can't speak specifically about it. In general,
> though, my feelings on technologies like this is that they're great to
> consider, if and only if they would solve a specific problem you're
having.
> This isn't something you'd want to put into production just for the fun of
> it. If you have a very high-speed network, say 10Gbps+, and you're
> schlepping a *lot* of data around, it may be worth implementing.

I don't have a 10Gbps network or a specific problem yet.
I'm wanting to be prepared for future traffic like Noah
got ready for a flood he was warned about.

I'm also thinking about using nginx instead of apache.
>From what I've read --
http://blog.zhuzhaoyuan.com/
nginx is faster with static pages and that's all I have
at the moment.   Nginx is smaller in terms of disk space
so that's in its favor.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - in G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Sat Mar  2 14:29:08 2013
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 14:29:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Paul a noob with Debian
In-Reply-To: <CAEoQ-6F_mwOQy+divbq1aob9+2Dqn72i1pB0+6KFUnAzcyaAbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEoQ-6F_mwOQy+divbq1aob9+2Dqn72i1pB0+6KFUnAzcyaAbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPnVXRBpoP68v6evzcrgqdOOo7E1yYOhL0cVdLUK5LXENQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Augie kk <augie.k.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> I recently installed Linux Mint Debian Edition (or LMDE).  This is a rolling
> distribution based on Debian Testing.  I would recommend this distro to any
> newcomer.  It's highly customizable, and full featured.

I like to use Mint with XFCE as a desktop.  If I have time and
ambition I prefer vanilla Debian (testing), if I want a "just works"
distro I'll usually go to Mint.

Brian

From augie.k.k at gmail.com  Sat Mar  2 14:56:32 2013
From: augie.k.k at gmail.com (Augie kk)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 14:56:32 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Paul a noob with Debian
Message-ID: <CAEoQ-6GT499o=BbVqfyVWVOxjNU3sE6PBoruR4wJ4JW=3HWXVA@mail.gmail.com>

Mint is the 3rd most used OS in the world.  My major gripe about some of
these major distributions is they come pre-loaded with so much software
I'll never use, but that's a preference.  They definitely serve a need in
the Linux world. I've been going minimal lately, working on some computers
with lesser hardware.

-August
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sat Mar  2 16:40:50 2013
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 16:40:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Hello Hal Meyers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1362247202.29841.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.3.1362247202.29841.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <COL121-W416DD14168363AE5BFC66E99F80@phx.gbl>


Hi, Hal 

On this desktop I am currently running Ubuntu 12.10 I have a p4 2.8ghz cpu 2 gigs of ram I am using a Ralink rt2561wifi card. I have a primary single partition on my 320 GB PATA drive. I have an agp Nvidia 6600 graphics card installed also. I have a core2duo laptop running Ubuntu 10.04 also I have another desktop with a 80 gig sata hd 2.5 GB ddr1 ram Ralink rt2561 wifi running Ubuntu 10.04. I am a little bit concerned as to Ubuntu 12.10 slowing down my computer so much does it really matter with EOL coming up next month for 10.04? 

Paul  

> From: tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 3
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 12:00:02 -0600
> 
> Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to
> 	tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: UDT? (Erik Anderson)
>    2. Re: Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user (Brian Wall)
>    3. Re: Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user (John Meier)
>    4. Re: Paul a noob with Debian (Hal Meyers)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 20:09:10 -0600
> From: Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] UDT?
> Message-ID:
> 	<CADdM08o6i=hY2cx2AQpm=bgzHWGE9tqJv=wKnRJBD3x5mrvKWA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> UDT is not a replacement for TCP or UDP - it is a data transfer protocol
> built on top of UDP, with some additional TCP-like features to aid in data
> integrity (negative ACKs to be specific).
> 
> I've never used UDT, so I can't speak specifically about it. In general,
> though, my feelings on technologies like this is that they're great to
> consider, if and only if they would solve a specific problem you're having.
> This isn't something you'd want to put into production just for the fun of
> it. If you have a very high-speed network, say 10Gbps+, and you're
> schlepping a *lot* of data around, it may be worth implementing.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have experience using UDT?
> > http://udt.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > Did you replace TCP or UDP with UDT?
> > Someone suggested I consider using UDT, so
> > am checking into it.  Currently I'm using both
> > TCP and UDP -- TCP between my back and
> > middle tiers and UDP between the middle and
> > front tiers.  I guess I could use UDT to replace
> > either or both of those uses.  Tia.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian Wood
> > Ebenezer Enterprises - John 3:16.
> > http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:46:23 -0600
> From: Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAB3QoPkyFeNfXLtHhpzM7iY7B6ZGczfEgCstrPpPAhKU7kdr_A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> > I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes electronically instead of on paper.  This would save me the hassle of filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc.
> 
> Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I've used a CPA the
> last three years and I'll never go back to doing my own taxes.  My CPA
> costs me $125 and easily finds enough deductions to recoup that.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 07:07:16 -0600
> From: John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com>
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Filing taxes electronically as a Linux user
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAL0Bt08+ChgsVTD03dT3X0-LMMZ47iJf5KGqiFjqAmGkEMDt5g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> > wrote:
> > > I am considering joining the 21st century by doing my taxes
> > electronically instead of on paper.  This would save me the hassle of
> > filling in everything by hand, waiting for white-out to dry, scanning in
> > the documents when I'm finished so I have a copy, etc.
> >
> > Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I've used a CPA the
> > last three years and I'll never go back to doing my own taxes.  My CPA
> > costs me $125 and easily finds enough deductions to recoup that.
> >
> >
> +1 on that.  No contest.
> 
> Shoot, once I incorporated, my tax dude does my personal side for
> nothin'....
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 11:37:37 -0600
> From: "Hal Meyers" <hmeyers4 at comcast.net>
> To: "'TCLUG Mailing List'" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Paul a noob with Debian
> Message-ID: <000001ce176c$a1d300f0$e57902d0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hello Paul,
> 
>  
> 
> I was hoping to respond back sooner but busy week for me at work. I have
> installed Debian recently on a Raspberry Pi  and then on my Dell 1747. The
> 1747 dual boost with Windows 7. You will probably get better responses if
> you ask specific questions around your setup and hardware.  Best Regards.
> Hal
> 
>  
> 
> Paul wrote: 
> 
> Hello, my name is Paul I have been working with Debian Based hardware setup
> alone. I would enjoy talking with other Linux and Unix users in my area of
> the Twin Cities.
> 
> Thank you, 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 3
> *****************************************
 		 	   		  
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From erikerik at gmail.com  Sat Mar  2 19:53:35 2013
From: erikerik at gmail.com (Erik Anderson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 19:53:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] UDT?
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsQFeinJcHgHyhYFeCbjQ_bTLmddSrrd9-hdjVnWQA8BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsQFeinJcHgHyhYFeCbjQ_bTLmddSrrd9-hdjVnWQA8BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADdM08oga3T6Qz1JSExm=qsvyYWzEO+mXnn2UscF_x_0caUw9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I understand that UDT isn't part of the kernel, but am not
> sure why you disagree with the term replace.
> Here's an exchange I found on a forum.  The UDT author
> replies to the question with 3 paragraphs.
>

OK, brief networking stack lesson here.

IP, the basis for all of these technologies, is a Layer 3 protocol.
TCP and UDP are both built on IP. They are Layer 4.
HTTP, SSH, SMTP, DNS, etc. are all built on TCP or UDP. They are Layer 7
(application) protocols.

So, when dealing with say HTTP, you're not *only* using HTTP, but you're
also using each level of the stack below that the protocol was built on. In
the case of HTTP, the stack goes something like HTTP/TCP/IP. For DNS, it's
DNS/UDP/IP.

Likewise, for ODT, the stack is ODT/UDP/IP, as the quote below from the
author specifies.

To reiterate, ODT is not a replacement for UDP. Rather, it is an
Application Layer (Layer 7) implementation on top of UDP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model

"Can you provide some data on how the protocol overhead
> compares to TCP?"
>
> The UDT packet header is 4 bytes longer than TCP
> (UDT/UDP/IP headers vs TCP/IP headers). Since UDT is at
> user space, it uses more CPU (up to 2x, especially at low
> throughput: the design of UDT makes it more efficient at
> higher throughput) and also likely more memory buffers
> are required (exact number is application specific but
> usually it should not require significant more buffers).
>



> I'm also thinking about using nginx instead of apache.
> From what I've read --
> http://blog.zhuzhaoyuan.com/
> nginx is faster with static pages and that's all I have
> at the moment.   Nginx is smaller in terms of disk space
> so that's in its favor.
>

Excellent choice. I've been a die-hard apache fan for most of my sysadmin
years, but have switched nearly every system I can over to nginx in the
last six months, and couldn't be happier.

-Erik
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From nesius at gmail.com  Sun Mar  3 01:59:04 2013
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 01:59:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] UDT?
In-Reply-To: <CADdM08oga3T6Qz1JSExm=qsvyYWzEO+mXnn2UscF_x_0caUw9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsQFeinJcHgHyhYFeCbjQ_bTLmddSrrd9-hdjVnWQA8BQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADdM08oga3T6Qz1JSExm=qsvyYWzEO+mXnn2UscF_x_0caUw9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE-KMCGq2L+t8k7GjOGY=wVtaramwe3F=j4F4+4i_u8q=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Erik Anderson <erikerik at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand that UDT isn't part of the kernel, but am not
>> sure why you disagree with the term replace.
>> Here's an exchange I found on a forum.  The UDT author
>> replies to the question with 3 paragraphs.
>>
>
> OK, brief networking stack lesson here.
>
> IP, the basis for all of these technologies, is a Layer 3 protocol.
> TCP and UDP are both built on IP. They are Layer 4.
> HTTP, SSH, SMTP, DNS, etc. are all built on TCP or UDP. They are Layer 7
> (application) protocols.
>
>
>
To be slightly pedantic, anything running over TCP/IP is handling layers 5,
6, and 7 of the OSI stack.

Session, Presentation, and Application.

-Rob
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From hmeyers4 at comcast.net  Sun Mar  3 09:52:19 2013
From: hmeyers4 at comcast.net (Hal Meyers)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 09:52:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Paul a noob with Debian
In-Reply-To: <CAEoQ-6GT499o=BbVqfyVWVOxjNU3sE6PBoruR4wJ4JW=3HWXVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEoQ-6GT499o=BbVqfyVWVOxjNU3sE6PBoruR4wJ4JW=3HWXVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004701ce1827$1683ca50$438b5ef0$@comcast.net>

There are a few related threads to your question below about running a
lighter weight distro in the archives. My experience is pretty much limited
to Debian vanilla. I've seen several recommendations for the Xfce desktop
environmnet. That's what runs on the Raspberry Pi with only 500 MB of RAM.
There are several that like Mint as well. 

 

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

 

-          Distro recommendation Feb 2013

-          Best light distros for ancient laptops - Feb 2013

 

Paul wrote:

On this desktop I am currently running Ubuntu 12.10 I have a p4 2.8ghz cpu 2
gigs of ram I am using a Ralink rt2561wifi card. I have a primary single
partition on my 320 GB PATA drive. I have an agp Nvidia 6600 graphics card
installed also. I have a core2duo laptop running Ubuntu 10.04 also I have
another desktop with a 80 gig sata hd 2.5 GB ddr1 ram Ralink rt2561 wifi
running Ubuntu 10.04. I am a little bit concerned as to Ubuntu 12.10 slowing
down my computer so much does it really matter with EOL coming up next month
for 10.04?

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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  3 13:48:21 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 19:48:21 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] UDT?
Message-ID: <CABWFOjv-VZdJbvoBKq2ynxS8asM08EfdkNrhVa7iK-CF3UbWLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Erik Anderson:

> OK, brief networking stack lesson here.
>
> IP, the basis for all of these technologies, is a Layer 3 protocol.
> TCP and UDP are both built on IP. They are Layer 4.
> HTTP, SSH, SMTP, DNS, etc. are all built on TCP or UDP. They
> are Layer 7 (application) protocols.
>
> So, when dealing with say HTTP, you're not *only* using HTTP, but >you're
also using each level of the stack below that the protocol
> was built on. In the case of HTTP, the stack goes something like
> HTTP/TCP/IP. For DNS, it's DNS/UDP/IP.
>

I'm aware of that.  I guess this is a difference in terminology.
I think of UDT as replacing UDP in the application even
though UDT uses UDP.

Iirc, we previously discussed ssh tunnels and IPsec in
this newsgroup.  As long as I keep using ssh tunnels, I'm
locked into using TCP.  So using UDT rather than TCP
between my back and middle tiers isn't an option unless
I stop using ssh tunnels.  I'm still thinking about using IPsec.

> Excellent choice. I've been a die-hard apache fan for most of
> my sysadmin years, but have switched nearly every system
> I can over to nginx in the  last six months, and couldn't be happier.

That's good to hear.  I started using nginx yesterday evening.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - so far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  3 22:54:48 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 22:54:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] IPSec question
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvEnxRAKGu8tLfDDy0qgaFLpZ2Bp2ux_F9HW-_Ak2SqoQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a question about IPSec.  My back and middle
tiers are both servers.  The middle tier is run by users
at their location.  I don't want to tell them they need to
have a dedicated machine for the middle tier.  The
middle tier is likely to be one of a number of servers
that are running on a user's machine.  Is there a way
to have IPSec turned on just for one server or does
it apply to everything running on the box?  Tia.

After reading more about UDT, I decided not to
use it at this time.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From andyzib at gmail.com  Wed Mar  6 21:23:05 2013
From: andyzib at gmail.com (Andrew S. Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 21:23:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] For Sale: SOHO KVM Switches, Asus WiFi Router
Message-ID: <CAMh5oVo++AYmEe6Z+vrb85t+SVq4-s-JhBM4x0oif4b_e2LRjg@mail.gmail.com>

Please reply OFF LIST for the sanity of others! I work in Downtown
Minneapolis, happy to meet you anywhere in the skyway or we can make other
arrangements.


Belkin OmniView 4-PORT VGA USB KVM Switch with audio + original 6 foot
cables
- Uses Standard male to female VGA cables and A-B USB cables.
- Model F1DS104U
- 4 VGA KVM Cables.
- USB AB Cables
- Audio cables (Speakers and Microphone)
- Power Adapter
- Cover
- Flash upgrade cable.
- Extra VGA monitor cable.
Asking $30

TrendNet KVM Switch Model TK-407 VGA+USB KVM
This KVM uses special KVM cables that have VGA and USB on one end and an
integrated 15-pin connector on the other. It is bus powered and does not
have an external power supply.
- 3 TrendNet KVM cables.
- Free shipping if I ever find the 4th KVM cable. :)
- This looks like the correct cable:
http://www.amazon.com/TRENDnet-USB-Cable-Male-TK-CU06/dp/B000P24YBY
Asking $30

Asus RT-N16 Gigabit Wireless N Router
- Barely used, never put it into use. Ran it for maybe a week.
- Built in 4-port gig switch
- 2 USB Ports
- Power Adapter
- Runs DD-WRT, OpenWRT, etc. I think I have Tomato or DD-WRT on it at the
moment.
Asking $50

--
Andrew Zbikowski
http://andy.zibnet.us/
Atomic batteries to power. Turbines to speed.
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From Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org  Thu Mar  7 13:04:14 2013
From: Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org (Nicholas Korsakov)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:04:14 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mageia.
Message-ID: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA42870E49C3@condor.mwcia.org>

Would anyone have advice on the easiest way to set up Mageia 2 on a laptop?



I installed it a week or more ago (dual boot with Windows 7).

Overall, I really like it. I have the KDE environment (and will install others, when I can).



Two parts...

(1)    However, I am running into problems on setting up wireless

a.       Need to find and install a driver for my wireless modem

b.      Need to find and install a driver for my Brother printer

(2)    I am also getting dependency hell when trying to update the software

a.       What is the best way to go about updating your packages?

b.      Are there any good command line strings that you would recommend?



Does anyone else like Mageia, or is it just too much trouble to deal with?



-- Nicholas


MWCIA |7701 France Ave S Ste 450 Mpls MN 55435|952.897.6426 |nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org<mailto:nicholas.korsakov at mwcia.org>


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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Mar  8 08:20:07 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 08:20:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] missing audio plugin
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KWeiE-hWKZPcDfjpE=mOcrEfvVEeiBTfiWJYJJHiiJJPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9AhoxEjpbG6f8E=RUKT6LKCas4DxJ5XEB5STC7JC9pwoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KWeiE-hWKZPcDfjpE=mOcrEfvVEeiBTfiWJYJJHiiJJPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DdJghr8Pe1C5sq3ZF83dioxfR8HkndKzzfQEJiEmT3MA@mail.gmail.com>

flash!  what with html5 (eg on youtube) i guess i've blissfully forgotten
flash.  a tad sad that the fox says "missing plugin" and "can't find"
rather than say "try installing flash eg via your distro pkg"..

> Do you have flash installed?
>
> Flashblock showed up in the top-right corner for me, and when I
> clicked it there was music.
>
> > http://www.northernspiritradio.org/audiolisten.asp?showid=605034772767
> >
> > firefox says "missing plugin" for the above page, and if i press the
button
> > to go find the missing plugin, it doesn't find one.  is there perchance
some
> > ubuntu package i'm missing?  or some other source?  or is there really
no
> > such plugin?  of course it's easy to request the source of the page
(^U),
> > grab the url, and feed it to mplayer.  but you'd think there would be a
> > plugin lying around somewhere for this..
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Mar  8 11:25:07 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 11:25:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] thunderbird/gmail
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9B=drBC_Eb6wfc0KZkw+2hZfKryAXgJ8_bnfV1df_OncA@mail.gmail.com>

anyone use thunderbird with gmail?

google recommends: "Do not save deleted messages to your
*[Gmail]/Trash*folder because this will delete a message in all
folders."

but where does thunderbird hide that setting?  i think i recall seeing that
setting during initial setup, but now can't find it to revisit it..
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From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Fri Mar  8 11:47:03 2013
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 11:47:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] thunderbird/gmail
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9B=drBC_Eb6wfc0KZkw+2hZfKryAXgJ8_bnfV1df_OncA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9B=drBC_Eb6wfc0KZkw+2hZfKryAXgJ8_bnfV1df_OncA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOZLdJWEvowh0qDRm=RAd3zrheHpcxCjnuLFwR_a8YOskHMP0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 11:25 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> google recommends: "Do not save deleted messages to your [Gmail]/Trash
> folder because this will delete a message in all folders."
>
> but where does thunderbird hide that setting?  i think i recall seeing that
> setting during initial setup, but now can't find it to revisit it..

Accounts > Server Settings > "When I delete a message"

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Mar  8 14:58:03 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 14:58:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pls assist me...
In-Reply-To: <1362763640.32554.YahooMailRC@web181102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1362754847.1109.YahooMailRC@web181105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAD+dB9Bxr5c-8JkiV4=aXnNyqBWnykNQKPN1t9cM9VBNmV+HsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1362763640.32554.YahooMailRC@web181102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DZJ9kEUPALDk=cKJwFGk0PAT9XXvnxVyxT2HXJJENung@mail.gmail.com>

a dear friend's email has been hijacked, the security questions and
alternate email have all been changed, at&t TS says there's no way to
help.  true?  there's always a way, tho at this point the only way i can
think of might be by knowing a friend on the att.net/yahoo admin team..
..any ideas?

On 8 March 2013 11:27, <suemccombs at att.net> wrote:

> good day Greg,my email was not hacked,pls i need help with a loan,i will
> appreciate you if you can assist me .thanks greg
> sue
>
> ------------------------------
> *To:* sue mccombs <suemccombs at att.net>
> *Sent:* Fri, March 8, 2013 6:18:43 PM
> *Subject:* Re: pls assist me...
>
> hi sue,
> how are you?
> looks like you're email and/or computer got hacked.  if you need help
> sorting it out just ask.
> greg
>
>  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <suemccombs at att.net>
> Date: 8 March 2013 09:00
> Subject: pls assist me...
> To: ichinich at gmail.com
>
>  Good morning dear ,how was your night,,pls i need you to lend me some
> money ,,a friend of mine need help in the UK,,pls can you lend me about
> $4ooo,or what ever you can afford to ..its a matter of life and death ,,i
> need to assist her..thanks a lot ..do have a great day ahead of you ....
> best regard
> susan
>
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Fri Mar  8 15:05:25 2013
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 15:05:25 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pls assist me...
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DZJ9kEUPALDk=cKJwFGk0PAT9XXvnxVyxT2HXJJENung@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1362754847.1109.YahooMailRC@web181105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAD+dB9Bxr5c-8JkiV4=aXnNyqBWnykNQKPN1t9cM9VBNmV+HsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1362763640.32554.YahooMailRC@web181102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAD+dB9DZJ9kEUPALDk=cKJwFGk0PAT9XXvnxVyxT2HXJJENung@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KVKN07m2fTbx1EPfcpenj6G1nBXUxh771c6qxQgh6eGQA@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like they don't provide support for free users.

http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB401397&cv=804&title=Change%20or%20reset%20your%20AT#fbid=eZvBMub5DOE

As a Free AT&T Email user, if you are unable to remember the answers
to your security questions, are unable to validate the ZIP code we
have on file, and you do not have an alternate email address on file
to complete the temporary password process, there is no other way to
reset your email password. You will need to create a new email
address.

Best of luck,
Michael

On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:58 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> a dear friend's email has been hijacked, the security questions and
> alternate email have all been changed, at&t TS says there's no way to help.
> true?  there's always a way, tho at this point the only way i can think of
> might be by knowing a friend on the att.net/yahoo admin team..  ..any ideas?
>
> On 8 March 2013 11:27, <suemccombs at att.net> wrote:
>>
>> good day Greg,my email was not hacked,pls i need help with a loan,i will
>> appreciate you if you can assist me .thanks greg
>> sue
>>
>> ________________________________
>> To: sue mccombs <suemccombs at att.net>
>> Sent: Fri, March 8, 2013 6:18:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: pls assist me...
>>
>> hi sue,
>> how are you?
>> looks like you're email and/or computer got hacked.  if you need help
>> sorting it out just ask.
>> greg
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: <suemccombs at att.net>
>> Date: 8 March 2013 09:00
>> Subject: pls assist me...
>> To: ichinich at gmail.com
>>
>> Good morning dear ,how was your night,,pls i need you to lend me some
>> money ,,a friend of mine need help in the UK,,pls can you lend me about
>> $4ooo,or what ever you can afford to ..its a matter of life and death ,,i
>> need to assist her..thanks a lot ..do have a great day ahead of you ....
>> best regard
>> susan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives
Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Mar  8 15:11:09 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 15:11:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] thunderbird/gmail
In-Reply-To: <CAOZLdJWEvowh0qDRm=RAd3zrheHpcxCjnuLFwR_a8YOskHMP0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9B=drBC_Eb6wfc0KZkw+2hZfKryAXgJ8_bnfV1df_OncA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOZLdJWEvowh0qDRm=RAd3zrheHpcxCjnuLFwR_a8YOskHMP0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AEYz1KhkKOzZt3bSp7gHZK6mZw9CYzbVdtag_A6zqQ_Q@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > google recommends: "Do not save deleted messages to your [Gmail]/Trash
> > folder because this will delete a message in all folders."
> >
> > but where does thunderbird hide that setting?  i think i recall seeing
> that
> > setting during initial setup, but now can't find it to revisit it..
>
> Accounts > Server Settings > "When I delete a message"
>

thanks, but hmmph, when i change it, the folder i choose gets a bin icon,
but doesn't get the messages i delete, they still go to [gmail]/bin, even
if i change it to "all mail"..

(thunderbird 17.0.3)
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From n0nas at amsat.org  Fri Mar  8 18:38:09 2013
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 18:38:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Mageia.
Message-ID: <CAL+RLOT6KF9deBF95=u=PAsAqoKK_+S3OLA7upVoyBXC2BRThQ@mail.gmail.com>

I keep thinking the best option is to boot from a very complete
live-cd, hopefully from a similar distribution. Test all the hardware
and then look up what the OS installed for your problem-children
hardware. But I haven't tried it so I don't know if it will work. I do
lean toward Knoppix for the purpose since it almost always loads the
right drivers, but I don't know if it will hold up with new Win8
hardware. .

Doug Reed.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Mar  8 18:54:22 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 18:54:22 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] pls assist me...
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KVKN07m2fTbx1EPfcpenj6G1nBXUxh771c6qxQgh6eGQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1362754847.1109.YahooMailRC@web181105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAD+dB9Bxr5c-8JkiV4=aXnNyqBWnykNQKPN1t9cM9VBNmV+HsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1362763640.32554.YahooMailRC@web181102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<CAD+dB9DZJ9kEUPALDk=cKJwFGk0PAT9XXvnxVyxT2HXJJENung@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KVKN07m2fTbx1EPfcpenj6G1nBXUxh771c6qxQgh6eGQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9C5f1d-WVhq+-kh2E6W3AzUS1ekQJ+DyNrOak-D2g8+2A@mail.gmail.com>

typical.  3 calls to att.net support, thrice told it can't be done.  thanks
to your link, tho, i called in yet again, gave her zip code, and the
password was reset.  they obviously want to refuse to support the free
services, but if they would just do it anyway, heck i called in 4 times and
i dunno how many times sue did, that all could've been just one call on
their tab instead..

On 8 March 2013 15:05, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like they don't provide support for free users.
>
>
> http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB401397&cv=804&title=Change%20or%20reset%20your%20AT#fbid=eZvBMub5DOE
>
> As a Free AT&T Email user, if you are unable to remember the answers
> to your security questions, are unable to validate the ZIP code we
> have on file, and you do not have an alternate email address on file
> to complete the temporary password process, there is no other way to
> reset your email password. You will need to create a new email
> address.
>
> Best of luck,
> Michael
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 2:58 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> > a dear friend's email has been hijacked, the security questions and
> > alternate email have all been changed, at&t TS says there's no way to
> help.
> > true?  there's always a way, tho at this point the only way i can think
> of
> > might be by knowing a friend on the att.net/yahoo admin team..  ..any
> ideas?
>
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sat Mar  9 12:47:49 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 12:47:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>

twm was fine in natty.  however since maverick it hasn't worked in
vnc, and now in precise and quantal things are mangled such that twm
is unusable in X.  depending on various circumstances, either twm
won't launch, or if it is up, various other apps won't launch, or
won't work properly.

twm is tiny, simple, and easy.  i like that.  but that's only the
beginning.  i like that i can place active window icons anywhere on
the desktop, focus unstolen by appearing windows, title bars that
don't span the whole window width, vert zoom, horiz zoom, left zoom,
right zoom, top zoom, bottom zoom..

does another window manager have many, or even any, of these features,
or could one be configured to have them?

or is it possible to splice twm into some other desktop environment?
WINDOW_MANAGER=/usr/bin/twm gnome-session
doesn't work.

xpdf is another example of something that has not worked since
oneiric.  is there hope for twm and xpdf in ubuntu's future, or is the
world according to ubuntu happy to kill them off?

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Mar  9 15:55:35 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 15:55:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO01U0UQORd38F4046jR7+inoTkz5hu2U8NXKcpcLfCq7Q@mail.gmail.com>

I know for Gnome2 / Mate Desktop you could splice in a window manager
using gconf-editor (don't recall the setting). I think LXDE also had
an XML file to edit somewhere in the home directory. Should be a way
to edit and do this in .xinitrc too...

You actually still use twm? You should try a more lightweight distro
that has better support for it. Still works in Arch Linux.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 12:47 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>
> twm was fine in natty.  however since maverick it hasn't worked in
> vnc, and now in precise and quantal things are mangled such that twm
> is unusable in X.  depending on various circumstances, either twm
> won't launch, or if it is up, various other apps won't launch, or
> won't work properly.
>
> twm is tiny, simple, and easy.  i like that.  but that's only the
> beginning.  i like that i can place active window icons anywhere on
> the desktop, focus unstolen by appearing windows, title bars that
> don't span the whole window width, vert zoom, horiz zoom, left zoom,
> right zoom, top zoom, bottom zoom..
>
> does another window manager have many, or even any, of these features,
> or could one be configured to have them?
>
> or is it possible to splice twm into some other desktop environment?
> WINDOW_MANAGER=/usr/bin/twm gnome-session
> doesn't work.
>
> xpdf is another example of something that has not worked since
> oneiric.  is there hope for twm and xpdf in ubuntu's future, or is the
> world according to ubuntu happy to kill them off?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Mar 10 10:43:29 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:43:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9C+HZshjVzRvspbgRm1sMQNoO6niWLdfPz82J1+3HnAiQ@mail.gmail.com>

or, lubuntu, apparently.  so it seems twm is broken not in precise or
quantal per se, but when gnome is installed in precise or quantal.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Mar 10 11:04:06 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:04:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] gnucash/twm/precise
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnoxp-mv=hjiB67rM1G9b9y+UxBLkh-7a1HeJPRVnWGzaaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BOAgk-8X0VH=5CBxBaSDyXXmajHYRLbpv9Q3OQYd9aZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALpcnoxp-mv=hjiB67rM1G9b9y+UxBLkh-7a1HeJPRVnWGzaaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DNSRf9EAbGEo89P0a4-k8epH8mP=i42b_ujZD16fvxRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 January 2013 08:26, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 9:52 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>
>> natty is eol.  i miss her.
>>
>> precise gnucash needs dbus.  whatever.  so what do i need to launch along
>> with twm to satisfy gnucash's thirst for dbus?
>>
>
> Found this to solve my problem with running gnucash from a cron job. It
> might help your twm woes.
>
> env $(dbus-launch) sh -c 'trap "kill $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_PID" EXIT;
> /usr/bin/gnucash --add-price-quotes
> ${HOME}/Documents/banking/gnucash/accounts.xac'
>

same for quantal/twm/gnucash, all fine if gnome isn't installed..
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Mar 10 11:21:11 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:21:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO01U0UQORd38F4046jR7+inoTkz5hu2U8NXKcpcLfCq7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO01U0UQORd38F4046jR7+inoTkz5hu2U8NXKcpcLfCq7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9ANX2KiYM-YCgAtwdm-d9c1knxKffZaenv1U761bp3b5g@mail.gmail.com>

>
> You actually still use twm?
>

yup.  seems to me most other wm's strive to be reminiscent of windows.  why
would i want that, when twm works better anyway?  true, vanilla twm is
ugly, but with a good .twmrc i've been happy longterm, ie since early
redhat.  before that i can barely remember, some wmaker deviant on hpux i
think.
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From nathan at nmecs.com  Sun Mar 10 11:25:46 2013
From: nathan at nmecs.com (Nathan England)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 09:25:46 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
Message-ID: <bred1o9ot3d92c3s4hngflf7.1362932746902@email.android.com>

Screenshots or it didnt happen! I want to see this good twmrc...gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:You actually still use twm?
?
yup.? seems to me most other wm's strive to be reminiscent of windows.? why would i want that, when twm works better anyway?? true, vanilla twm is ugly, but with a good .twmrc i've been happy longterm, ie since early redhat.? before that i can barely remember, some wmaker deviant on hpux i think.
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Mar 10 11:54:46 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:54:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
In-Reply-To: <bred1o9ot3d92c3s4hngflf7.1362932746902@email.android.com>
References: <bred1o9ot3d92c3s4hngflf7.1362932746902@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AZyPgnGD40FNifHi0JjkOUh+MHLoUQFGS1Ggyqfy2jhA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Screenshots or it didnt happen! I want to see this good twmrc...
>

well it _is_ less ugly with tiny partial width buttonless titlebars and
better colors, but i'm more interested in function than form, screenshots,
or trying to convince.  ask me for the .twmrc and i'll be happy to oblige.
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From nesius at gmail.com  Sun Mar 10 12:03:23 2013
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:03:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE9ojf7irWvERvZm+v8k1Z1GRK4dS9zFTHRP+G1t6uqK+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Saturday, March 9, 2013, gregrwm wrote:
>
>
> twm is tiny, simple, and easy.  i like that.  but that's only the
> beginning.  i like that i can place active window icons anywhere on
> the desktop, focus unstolen by appearing windows, title bars that
> don't span the whole window width, vert zoom, horiz zoom, left zoom,
> right zoom, top zoom, bottom zoom..
>
> does another window manager have many, or even any, of these features,
> or could one be configured to have them?


A lot of these behaviors are supported in other old-school window managers.

Guess I'd suggest fvwm as a twm replacement due to it's configurability.
But there are many other choices.  A lot of my friends used to use a window
manager that was inspired by nextstep - can't remember the name of it
though.  Openstep?

-Rob
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Mar 11 04:14:20 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 04:14:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303110243330.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I picked up one of these at Micro Center:

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Link-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Touchpad-GKM611B/dp/B004N7146U/

What I like:  It works well and it allows me to pair the keyboard with up 
to six devices.  I can switch between devices using Fn-1, Fn-2, ..., Fn-6. 
It has a touchpad on the right side with two buttons in front of it.

What I don't like:  The touchpad is only about an inch square.  It doesn't 
seem to do scrolling.  I have an IOGEAR keyboard that doesn't use 
bluetooth, but it has a trackball on the right and two buttons with a 
clickable scroll wheel on the left, and I like that much better.

What I want:  The best of both worlds.  Isn't there a bluetooth keyboard 
that allows multiple pairings and also has a much nicer design for the 
pointer movement (touchpad or trackball)?

It seems simple enough, but a lot of bluetooth keyboards have a separate 
mouse or trackball and I want everything built into the keyboard.

Mike

From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 07:41:57 2013
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:41:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303110243330.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303110243330.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <FFD52BCB51BB45D39FE4109C5F083C5D@d830a>

The Logitech Model  968011-0403 bluetooth keyboard appears to have a
full-sized touchpad.
No idea what specs it has, but probably full-featured.  $29.98 refurbished
from eBay.  Item # 120881149782

The Logitech model K400 has a much bigger touchpad plus conventional
switches below it.

A Dell model looks promising also: Item # 190808896980

eBay seems to have several good possibilities found in a search for
"bluetooth keyboard"... many duds tho.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 4:14 AM
> To: TCLUG List
> Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
>
> I picked up one of these at Micro Center:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Link-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Touchpad-G
> KM611B/dp/B004N7146U/
>
> What I like:  It works well and it allows me to pair the
> keyboard with up
> to six devices.  I can switch between devices using Fn-1,
> Fn-2, ..., Fn-6.
> It has a touchpad on the right side with two buttons in front of it.
>
> What I don't like:  The touchpad is only about an inch
> square.  It doesn't
> seem to do scrolling.  I have an IOGEAR keyboard that doesn't use
> bluetooth, but it has a trackball on the right and two buttons with a
> clickable scroll wheel on the left, and I like that much better.
>
> What I want:  The best of both worlds.  Isn't there a
> bluetooth keyboard
> that allows multiple pairings and also has a much nicer
> design for the
> pointer movement (touchpad or trackball)?
>
> It seems simple enough, but a lot of bluetooth keyboards have
> a separate
> mouse or trackball and I want everything built into the keyboard.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



From chrome at real-time.com  Mon Mar 11 12:16:59 2013
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:16:59 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] twm
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DfThdZ-c7oFNyEitwUNmdZs0w3MvbtjfPW5rBW0FwaPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130311171659.GD44554@real-time.com>

On 03/09 12:47 , gregrwm wrote:
> twm is tiny, simple, and easy.  i like that.  but that's only the
> beginning.  i like that i can place active window icons anywhere on
> the desktop, focus unstolen by appearing windows, title bars that
> don't span the whole window width, vert zoom, horiz zoom, left zoom,
> right zoom, top zoom, bottom zoom..
> 
> does another window manager have many, or even any, of these features,
> or could one be configured to have them?

I used FVWM for years for the same reason (and it had a much less hostile
UI). I'm currently on KDE, but mostly because of the B-II theme with it's
auto-moving and auto-resizing partial-length titlebars.

I wish someone would put the titlebars from the KDE B-II theme into FVWM,
along with the circular menus from piewm. I'm not enough of a coder to do
that tho, or I would have done it years ago.

'welding' windows together (either on the edges side-by-side or overlapping
with partial-width titlebars serving as tabs) is something a few WMs have
(pekwm I think) but I would love to see more commonly. Tabs should be
handled at the WM level, not the app level.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From admin at lctn.org  Mon Mar 11 13:36:11 2013
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:36:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] File system recovery
Message-ID: <513E241B.10605@lctn.org>

I have an Ubuntu 10.10 server that was shutdown hard. The box is set up 
with a hardware raid 5. For whatever reason it is not dropping into 
single mode so I can run fsck manually. I know there is a problem with / 
and /boot. I am planning on booting to a live cd to fix things, but need 
to be sure I don't make a bigger mess.

Anyone have a good doc that fits what I need to do?

-- 
Raymond Norton
LCTN
952.955.7766


From Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org  Mon Mar 11 13:57:34 2013
From: Nicholas.Korsakov at mwcia.org (Nicholas Korsakov)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:57:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Mageia. Samba.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1363021202.31327.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1363021202.31327.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <3BC76BCFB10A954D97C6751255E2D0DA42870E4D28@condor.mwcia.org>

I got my Mageia dual boot setup working much better now (Mageia & Windows 7).
It took me a while to get comfortable with the different way that it handled packages.
It seems to play nice with my Windows setup, and I love being able to see the files in my Windows partition.
(I've also downloaded many desktop environments to play with every few days.)

To fix my printer problem (obscure Brother print driver), I will have to play with 2 different files and try to install them.
I am kind of new at this, and may not be successful.

As an alternative, I may be able to grab a Windows printer driver from my other partition.
Can anyone point out good tutorials on this, or advise on using Samba (or Samba shares)?

-- Nicholas

From bgilbertson at rrt.net  Mon Mar 11 14:39:10 2013
From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (Robert Gilbertson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:39:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Mageia. Samba.
Message-ID: <513e32de.10e8.b0e0db70.6e1c6b33@rrt.net>

What model printer?
Brother supplies drivers for many of their printers
http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/index.html




On Monday 11/03/2013 at 1:57 pm, Nicholas Korsakov  wrote:
> I got my Mageia dual boot setup working much better now (Mageia & 
> Windows 7).
> It took me a while to get comfortable with the different way that it 
> handled packages.
> It seems to play nice with my Windows setup, and I love being able to 
> see the files in my Windows partition.
> (I've also downloaded many desktop environments to play with every few 
> days.)
>
> To fix my printer problem (obscure Brother print driver), I will have 
> to play with 2 different files and try to install them.
> I am kind of new at this, and may not be successful.
>
> As an alternative, I may be able to grab a Windows printer driver from 
> my other partition.
> Can anyone point out good tutorials on this, or advise on using Samba 
> (or Samba shares)?
>
> -- Nicholas
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Mar 11 16:30:37 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:30:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
In-Reply-To: <FFD52BCB51BB45D39FE4109C5F083C5D@d830a>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303110243330.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<FFD52BCB51BB45D39FE4109C5F083C5D@d830a>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303111620280.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Chuck Cole wrote:

> The Logitech Model  968011-0403 bluetooth keyboard appears to have a
> full-sized touchpad.
> No idea what specs it has, but probably full-featured.  $29.98 refurbished
> from eBay.  Item # 120881149782

It's hard to find more info, and I don't see it on logitech.com, which is 
odd.  It seems to be designed especially for Sony PS3, and I don't think 
it can work with multiple devices.


> The Logitech model K400 has a much bigger touchpad plus conventional 
> switches below it.

Yes, but that is not bluetooth, just wireless.  I need bluetooth to be 
able to use it with the smart phones.


> A Dell model looks promising also: Item # 190808896980
>
> eBay seems to have several good possibilities found in a search for 
> "bluetooth keyboard"... many duds tho.

That one doesn't have the required built-in touchpad or trackball and I 
see no indication that it can pair with multiple devices.

Thanks, Chuck, for looking it up for me.  It looks like you found the same 
thing I found -- that they aren't quite serving my needs, yet.  It's 
strange because in my crazy view of things, this is something *everyone* 
should want right now!  ;-)  IOGEAR is close, so I guess I'll stick with 
that for now, but it is annoying that I can't seem to scroll with it. 
Maybe I need to try that again.

Mike


>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
>> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 4:14 AM
>> To: TCLUG List
>> Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
>>
>> I picked up one of these at Micro Center:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Link-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Touchpad-GKM611B/dp/B004N7146U/
>>
>> What I like:  It works well and it allows me to pair the keyboard with 
>> up to six devices.  I can switch between devices using Fn-1, Fn-2, ..., 
>> Fn-6. It has a touchpad on the right side with two buttons in front of 
>> it.
>>
>> What I don't like:  The touchpad is only about an inch square.  It 
>> doesn't seem to do scrolling.  I have an IOGEAR keyboard that doesn't 
>> use bluetooth, but it has a trackball on the right and two buttons with 
>> a clickable scroll wheel on the left, and I like that much better.
>>
>> What I want:  The best of both worlds.  Isn't there a bluetooth 
>> keyboard that allows multiple pairings and also has a much nicer design 
>> for the pointer movement (touchpad or trackball)?
>>
>> It seems simple enough, but a lot of bluetooth keyboards have a 
>> separate mouse or trackball and I want everything built into the 
>> keyboard.
>>
>> Mike

From cncole at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 11 22:32:24 2013
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:32:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303111620280.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303110243330.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu><FFD52BCB51BB45D39FE4109C5F083C5D@d830a>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303111620280.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <B8EACF3C400E4CFD977EEEBDED3CF45C@d830a>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
>
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
> > The Logitech Model  968011-0403 bluetooth keyboard appears to have a
> > full-sized touchpad.
> > No idea what specs it has, but probably full-featured.
> $29.98 refurbished
> > from eBay.  Item # 120881149782
>
> It's hard to find more info, and I don't see it on
> logitech.com, which is
> odd.  It seems to be designed especially for Sony PS3, and I
> don't think
> it can work with multiple devices.

Maybe a Google search would help.  I sometimes cannot find adequate specs on
a company site until I do a separate Google search for them.


> > The Logitech model K400 has a much bigger touchpad plus
> conventional
> > switches below it.
>
> Yes, but that is not bluetooth, just wireless.  I need
> bluetooth to be
> able to use it with the smart phones.

Oops.. my mistake.  Likely there is a bluetooth variant or that they include
a bluetooth dongle.  Some product info isn't clear that their wireless is by
an included dongle that actually is bluetooth compatible, thus not
necessary.


> > A Dell model looks promising also: Item # 190808896980
> >
> > eBay seems to have several good possibilities found in a search for
> > "bluetooth keyboard"... many duds tho.
>
> That one doesn't have the required built-in touchpad or
> trackball and I
> see no indication that it can pair with multiple devices.

Seems to have some sort of "joystick-like" control, which is why I included
it.  I looked at a big blow-up photo..   but not really sure.


> Thanks, Chuck, for looking it up for me.  It looks like you
> found the same
> thing I found -- that they aren't quite serving my needs, yet.  It's
> strange because in my crazy view of things, this is something
> *everyone*
> should want right now!  ;-)  IOGEAR is close, so I guess I'll
> stick with
> that for now, but it is annoying that I can't seem to scroll with it.
> Maybe I need to try that again.

Multiple device pairing is likely a standard bluetooth feature,  From what I
think I saw, a closer look at these or other products seems appropriate. I
might even contact Logitech support with questions including "compare to
IOGEAR".  The IOGEAR one did not seem as good as the others.

Hope this helps..

Chuck



From tclug at mikerochford.com  Tue Mar 12 15:26:59 2013
From: tclug at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:26:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 12GB Desktop Memory - Corsair Dominator-GT DDR3
Message-ID: <CAMWpi9COt3KZ9VzW4kQU9iTKqGtAicTAHXqow8L307LUrjP=gw@mail.gmail.com>

Pulled from a running system.

CMG6GX3M3A20000C8

6GB(3x2GB)

Voltages: 8-8-8-24

Looking to get 100 bucks.

-Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Mar 12 21:05:28 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:05:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
In-Reply-To: <B8EACF3C400E4CFD977EEEBDED3CF45C@d830a>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303110243330.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu><FFD52BCB51BB45D39FE4109C5F083C5D@d830a>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303111620280.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<B8EACF3C400E4CFD977EEEBDED3CF45C@d830a>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303122055400.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Chuck Cole wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
>>
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Chuck Cole wrote:
>>
>>> The Logitech Model 968011-0403 bluetooth keyboard appears to have a 
>>> full-sized touchpad. No idea what specs it has, but probably 
>>> full-featured. $29.98 refurbished from eBay.  Item # 120881149782
>>
>> It's hard to find more info, and I don't see it on logitech.com, which 
>> is odd.  It seems to be designed especially for Sony PS3, and I don't 
>> think it can work with multiple devices.
>
> Maybe a Google search would help.  I sometimes cannot find adequate 
> specs on a company site until I do a separate Google search for them.

I searched for it very broadly, also using site:logitech.com in google, 
then searching the logitech site by hand in various ways.  The only info 
seems to come from users asking questions.  Maybe it wasn't distributed in 
the US?  I don't know what's up with that one, but it didn't turn up as 
much as you'd expect.


>>> The Logitech model K400 has a much bigger touchpad plus conventional 
>>> switches below it.
>>
>> Yes, but that is not bluetooth, just wireless.  I need bluetooth to be 
>> able to use it with the smart phones.
>
> Oops.. my mistake.  Likely there is a bluetooth variant or that they 
> include a bluetooth dongle.

I thought they had one that looked like that and used bluetooth - I 
thought I remembered one from Micro Center, but on the web, I don't see a 
bluetooth version.


> Some product info isn't clear that their wireless is by an included 
> dongle that actually is bluetooth compatible, thus not necessary.

It does seem to be hard to find exactly the info I want about these 
keyboards.


>>> A Dell model looks promising also: Item # 190808896980
>>>
>>> eBay seems to have several good possibilities found in a search for
>>> "bluetooth keyboard"... many duds tho.
>>
>> That one doesn't have the required built-in touchpad or trackball and I 
>> see no indication that it can pair with multiple devices.
>
> Seems to have some sort of "joystick-like" control, which is why I 
> included it.  I looked at a big blow-up photo..  but not really sure.

I also saw that and zoomed in on it and wasn't sure what it was.  Maybe it 
could control the mouse cursor.


>> Thanks, Chuck, for looking it up for me.  It looks like you found the 
>> same thing I found -- that they aren't quite serving my needs, yet. 
>> It's strange because in my crazy view of things, this is something 
>> *everyone* should want right now!  ;-)  IOGEAR is close, so I guess 
>> I'll stick with that for now, but it is annoying that I can't seem to 
>> scroll with it. Maybe I need to try that again.
>
> Multiple device pairing is likely a standard bluetooth feature, From 
> what I think I saw, a closer look at these or other products seems 
> appropriate. I might even contact Logitech support with questions 
> including "compare to IOGEAR".  The IOGEAR one did not seem as good as 
> the others.
>
> Hope this helps..

I think I might try to call the companies to see what they say.  At least, 
if they don't make such a thing, enough calls will persuade them to fix 
that.

Regarding multiple device pairings, the IOGEAR keyboard specifically 
states that it does multiple pairings, like it's a big deal, and they say 
that it does up to 6 pairings.  Other devices I look at don't say anything 
about it, which makes me think they do only one.  Some of them say they 
only work well with a certain bluetooth receiver dongle.

Mike

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Tue Mar 12 21:38:41 2013
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 21:38:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 12GB Desktop Memory - Corsair Dominator-GT DDR3
In-Reply-To: <CAMWpi9COt3KZ9VzW4kQU9iTKqGtAicTAHXqow8L307LUrjP=gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMWpi9COt3KZ9VzW4kQU9iTKqGtAicTAHXqow8L307LUrjP=gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoPm53wVVmFmFXC=4WkGEsXvYdDF4HOjsHR=yYRgN7EcnmA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Mike Rochford <tclug at mikerochford.com> wrote:
> Pulled from a running system.

Did the system stay up after your "hot remove"?  What kernel are you using???

Sorry, couldn't resist.

From tclug at mikerochford.com  Wed Mar 13 08:50:17 2013
From: tclug at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:50:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 12GB Desktop Memory - Corsair Dominator-GT DDR3
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoPm53wVVmFmFXC=4WkGEsXvYdDF4HOjsHR=yYRgN7EcnmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMWpi9COt3KZ9VzW4kQU9iTKqGtAicTAHXqow8L307LUrjP=gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB3QoPm53wVVmFmFXC=4WkGEsXvYdDF4HOjsHR=yYRgN7EcnmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMWpi9AmqqCcQdHPas1eRa6vhVO81axEyXnXiF13W3H9XbH_zw@mail.gmail.com>

I knew that was coming once I sent the email.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Mike Rochford <tclug at mikerochford.com> wrote:
>> Pulled from a running system.
>
> Did the system stay up after your "hot remove"?  What kernel are you using???
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Wed Mar 13 08:54:06 2013
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 08:54:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] 12GB Desktop Memory - Corsair Dominator-GT DDR3
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoPm53wVVmFmFXC=4WkGEsXvYdDF4HOjsHR=yYRgN7EcnmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMWpi9COt3KZ9VzW4kQU9iTKqGtAicTAHXqow8L307LUrjP=gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB3QoPm53wVVmFmFXC=4WkGEsXvYdDF4HOjsHR=yYRgN7EcnmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEGzfeiX4coDRAPr92G=nC_CiHncFwXimHS4BUY3eO=WSA@mail.gmail.com>

It just started talking more slowly, I would imagine, and then it
started singing "Daisy Bell."

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Brian Wall <kc0iog at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Mike Rochford <tclug at mikerochford.com> wrote:
>> Pulled from a running system.
>
> Did the system stay up after your "hot remove"?  What kernel are you using???
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Mar 13 10:02:16 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:02:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]  SElinux
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CbdQUzYhpROfcO8nD7nfW_OiDxYAV_2y4eLv1EkCUDmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=hF9UnQ6PtywBJGyNUXWaNA=4kwmqe9p9dY2zF@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CbdQUzYhpROfcO8nD7nfW_OiDxYAV_2y4eLv1EkCUDmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DQ6s4dHxTkm6PsoLCkAuCqTFJUt4RqXWusmi5OGMNvjQ@mail.gmail.com>

so far i have remained blissfully ignorant of selinux, since thus far
openvz can't use it anyway.

i see now echo 0>|/selinux/enforce no longer disables selinux on the newest
centos6.  before i had that worked out i was wondering why restart sshd was
responding "/etc/ssh/sshd_config: Permission denied".  yes i have replaced
/etc/ssh/sshd_config.

but i'm still befuzzled.  why was plain "/usr/sbin/sshd" able to start it
just fine (even before i managed to disable selinux!)?

i'll be glad to learn from your responses, other than that all i'm going to
learn today is the new way to disable selinux (setenforce 0) (and of course
selinux=0 in grub.conf).
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Mar 13 12:01:16 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:01:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] SElinux
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DQ6s4dHxTkm6PsoLCkAuCqTFJUt4RqXWusmi5OGMNvjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=hF9UnQ6PtywBJGyNUXWaNA=4kwmqe9p9dY2zF@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CbdQUzYhpROfcO8nD7nfW_OiDxYAV_2y4eLv1EkCUDmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9DQ6s4dHxTkm6PsoLCkAuCqTFJUt4RqXWusmi5OGMNvjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130313170116.GR27564@signbit.net>

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:02:16AM -0500, gregrwm wrote:
> so far i have remained blissfully ignorant of selinux, since thus far
> openvz can't use it anyway.
> 
> i see now echo 0>|/selinux/enforce no longer disables selinux on the newest
> centos6.  before i had that worked out i was wondering why restart sshd was
> responding "/etc/ssh/sshd_config: Permission denied".  yes i have replaced
> /etc/ssh/sshd_config.
> 
> but i'm still befuzzled.  why was plain "/usr/sbin/sshd" able to start it
> just fine (even before i managed to disable selinux!)?

It is possible that your act of replacing of /etc/ssh/sshd_config
temporarily changed the label on the file /etc/ssh/sshd_config and
when you started sshd as root, you just ran the daemon in the default
unconstrained domain.

If you want to start sshd properly under SELinux you need to use:
   run_init service sshd start

> i'll be glad to learn from your responses, other than that all i'm going to
> learn today is the new way to disable selinux (setenforce 0) (and of course
> selinux=0 in grub.conf).

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Mar 13 12:54:55 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:54:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] SElinux
In-Reply-To: <20130313170116.GR27564@signbit.net>
References: <AANLkTi=hF9UnQ6PtywBJGyNUXWaNA=4kwmqe9p9dY2zF@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CbdQUzYhpROfcO8nD7nfW_OiDxYAV_2y4eLv1EkCUDmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9DQ6s4dHxTkm6PsoLCkAuCqTFJUt4RqXWusmi5OGMNvjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130313170116.GR27564@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AeReBrbczPUzQCvAfr1+cEh8FUvtNy9-FTikW0edCdOw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> default unconstrained domain
>

ah, i get it.  thanks florin.
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 16 02:22:44 2013
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 02:22:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303122055400.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303110243330.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu><FFD52BCB51BB45D39FE4109C5F083C5D@d830a><alpine.DEB.2.00.1303111620280.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu><B8EACF3C400E4CFD977EEEBDED3CF45C@d830a>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303122055400.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <7E3264998A0545F6B376531D8BDE72D0@d830a>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 9:05 PM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] bluetooth keyboards
>
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2013, Chuck Cole wrote:
>
(snipped)

> I think I might try to call the companies to see what they
> say.  At least,
> if they don't make such a thing, enough calls will persuade
> them to fix
> that.

Sounds best.  I saw the poor coverage you mention.


> Regarding multiple device pairings, the IOGEAR keyboard specifically
> states that it does multiple pairings, like it's a big deal,
> and they say
> that it does up to 6 pairings.  Other devices I look at don't
> say anything
> about it, which makes me think they do only one.  Some of
> them say they
> only work well with a certain bluetooth receiver dongle.

Perhaps it's like a KVM feature.  Had not thought of that before.

Send a progress note now and then.  Good hunting  :-)


Chuck




From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 17 01:52:06 2013
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (Paul graf)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 01:52:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1363453201.22477.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1363453201.22477.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>



 

I have been in search of a distro that does not have the Ubuntu 12.10 Unity Dash  spyware.
 
I am now posting more messages in the openSUSE forums than I ever did with Ubuntu and getting more professional help. 
 
I am a noob but I could not deal with Ubuntu anymore.
  		 	   		  
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From max at bernsteinforpresident.com  Sun Mar 17 08:46:17 2013
From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 08:46:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1363453201.22477.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20130317084617.3bdf1f30@Newton>

Hi Paul,

> I have been in search of a distro that does not have the Ubuntu 12.10
> Unity Dash spyware.

You could try any of the FSF recommended distros:

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

gNewSense is quite similar to the (pre-Unity) Ubuntu, and I've heard
very good things about Trisquel as well, which is KDE based.

-Max

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Sun Mar 17 09:16:29 2013
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bXIuY2hldy5iYWthQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 09:16:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?tclug-list_Digest=2C_Vol_99=2C_Issue_15?=
Message-ID: <5145d039.8611340a.187f.6860@mx.google.com>

Good job.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Paul graf" <pj.world at hotmail.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 15
Date: Sun, Mar 17, 2013 01:52
I have been in search of a distro that does not have the Ubuntu 12.10 Unity Dash  spyware.

I am now posting more messages in the openSUSE forums than I ever did with Ubuntu and getting more professional help. 

I am a noob but I could not deal with Ubuntu anymore.
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Mar 17 09:22:00 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 09:22:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 99, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <20130317084617.3bdf1f30@Newton>
References: <mailman.1.1363453201.22477.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>
	<20130317084617.3bdf1f30@Newton>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BoWrxujRLvLryPnhX1jNyJ4FSb8GozdnpwpRE27eqHLQ@mail.gmail.com>

> > I have been in search of a distro that does not have the Ubuntu 12.10
> > Unity Dash spyware.

bailing from ubuntu on principle is understandable.  or, you can note
that several ubuntu distributions don't include unity, eg [xkl]ubuntu.

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Mar 18 02:13:22 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 02:13:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Unity,
 Ubuntu and choosing a window manager (was "tclug-list Digest, Vol 99,
 Issue 15")
In-Reply-To: <COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1363453201.22477.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303172118290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013, Paul graf wrote:

> I have been in search of a distro that does not have the Ubuntu 12.10 
> Unity Dash spyware.


I didn't realize the Dash was "phoning home," but here's more about that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(user_interface)#12.10_Amazon_controversy
http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/13/145217/stallman-on-unity-dash-canonical-will-have-to-give-users-data-to-governments

I've been using Ubuntu for a few years and am reasonably happy with it. 
Some of the recent changes were not good.  I think I would like to not use 
Unity.  I'm sure it isn't hard to install other window managers and use 
them.  Is there a good source for info on how to do that?

In Solaris about 12 years ago I had it running OpenWindows, KDE or Gnome, 
depending on which I selected.  That must be easily doable in Linux, too.

Mike

From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Tue Mar 19 11:11:28 2013
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 11:11:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Sunfish from Joel Longanecker Penguins Unbound Meeting
	March 23rd
Message-ID: <51488E30.9050306@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday March 23rd at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

At this months Penguins Unbound Meeting:

Joel Longanecker will talk about his project:

Sunfish is an application programming environment for communicating 
directly with the hardware from inside a Mono/CLR application intended 
for use in 'near embedded' systems.

Hope to see you there.

Thanks!

==>brian.

*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

-- 
electrons are not important in nuclear chemistry

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Tue Mar 19 11:27:28 2013
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 11:27:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Unity,
 Ubuntu and choosing a window manager (was "tclug-list Digest, Vol 99,
 Issue 15")
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303172118290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1363453201.22477.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303172118290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <514891F0.6090101@gmail.com>

On 3/18/2013 2:13 AM, Mike Miller wrote::
>
> In Solaris about 12 years ago I had it running OpenWindows, KDE or
> Gnome, depending on which I selected.  That must be easily doable in
> Linux, too.
>

It's super easy on Linux.  Each distro has it's own way.  On Ubuntu 
first install desktop GUI you want.  Log out, and when you log back in 
you will see the option to select what window manager you want.

On Slackware, just type xwmconfig & select one of the installed, log out 
& log in.




From xcorvis at gmail.com  Tue Mar 19 12:33:30 2013
From: xcorvis at gmail.com (Adam Nave)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 12:33:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Unity,
 Ubuntu and choosing a window manager (was "tclug-list Digest, Vol 99,
 Issue 15")
In-Reply-To: <514891F0.6090101@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1363453201.22477.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
	<COL121-W129118B968455399FAE76899EF0@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303172118290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<514891F0.6090101@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAOshu0v4vvJyQeq159WaVDhxFJn3Ki0S0CXDCdPozVr0U8n+A@mail.gmail.com>

You can disable and/or remove the lens features that go to Amazon. This
article has a lot of good info, including how to do that:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-amazon-ads-and-data-leaks

To install a new wm in Ubuntu:
"sudo apt-get install openbox" (or similar, or use the software center),
though in my experience you have to hunt around for the window manager
chooser - it's that little circle near the login box.

You could also install an Ubuntu variant, such as Kubuntu (KDE), Xubuntu
(Xfce) or Lubuntu (LXDE) to have the window manager fully configured (and
without Unity installed at all).

--Adam


On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:27 AM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 3/18/2013 2:13 AM, Mike Miller wrote::
>
>>
>> In Solaris about 12 years ago I had it running OpenWindows, KDE or
>> Gnome, depending on which I selected.  That must be easily doable in
>> Linux, too.
>>
>>
> It's super easy on Linux.  Each distro has it's own way.  On Ubuntu first
> install desktop GUI you want.  Log out, and when you log back in you will
> see the option to select what window manager you want.
>
> On Slackware, just type xwmconfig & select one of the installed, log out &
> log in.
>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Mar 19 23:29:02 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:29:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Silly mkfs/badblocks question
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303192324320.2290@dragon>

Ok, this is... I feel like I really should know this by now, but...

When I do a mkfs -c -v on a new filesystem, I get this while it's running:

   Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -X -s /dev/sdg1 732566384
   Checking for bad blocks (read-only test):  51.39% done, 3:23:10 elapsed.
   (0/0/0 errors)

Note the 0/0/0 errors part. Also note that it takes about 3.5 hours to do 
50%. Therefore if I have, say, several of these drives, I run a batch and 
don't sit here watching.

Which means that when the mkfs process is done... it doesn't tell me 
anything about how many errors there were. At the end, I get this:

   Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -X -s /dev/sdg1 732566384
   Checking for bad blocks (read-only test): done

Now, does this mean there were NO bad blocks and no errors? Or does it 
hide them somewhere? Is there a command that'll tell it to just display 
bad blocks (if any) or tell me if there are NO bad blocks?


TIA!



--

From florin at iucha.net  Tue Mar 19 23:57:18 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:57:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Silly mkfs/badblocks question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303192324320.2290@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303192324320.2290@dragon>
Message-ID: <20130320045718.GK27564@signbit.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:29:02PM -0500, Yaron wrote:
> Ok, this is... I feel like I really should know this by now, but...
> 
> When I do a mkfs -c -v on a new filesystem, I get this while it's running:
> 
>   Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -X -s /dev/sdg1 732566384
>   Checking for bad blocks (read-only test):  51.39% done, 3:23:10 elapsed.
>   (0/0/0 errors)
> 
> Note the 0/0/0 errors part. Also note that it takes about 3.5 hours
> to do 50%. Therefore if I have, say, several of these drives, I run
> a batch and don't sit here watching.
> 
> Which means that when the mkfs process is done... it doesn't tell me
> anything about how many errors there were. At the end, I get this:
> 
>   Running command: badblocks -b 4096 -X -s /dev/sdg1 732566384
>   Checking for bad blocks (read-only test): done
> 
> Now, does this mean there were NO bad blocks and no errors? Or does
> it hide them somewhere? Is there a command that'll tell it to just
> display bad blocks (if any) or tell me if there are NO bad blocks?

Short of reading the source of the particular mkfs binary that you're
running there's no way to be sure.
I would just run badblocks by itself first, followed by a plain mkfs.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Mar 20 02:46:26 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:46:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Silly mkfs/badblocks question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303192324320.2290@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303192324320.2290@dragon>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9AML9KqU3C0u0C=GCndaqxHb97EFPoK6zT85HxUHFfCkg@mail.gmail.com>

dumpe2fs
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Mar 20 02:55:35 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 02:55:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Silly mkfs/badblocks question
In-Reply-To: <20130320045718.GK27564@signbit.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303192324320.2290@dragon>
	<20130320045718.GK27564@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CBEab-0skyf+pxAHk-f370V_JMX-ZSzOWwK-JHtwEKHg@mail.gmail.com>

> I would just run badblocks by itself first, followed by a plain mkfs.

badblocks manpage warns it's safer (and easier) to invoke badblocks via
either fsck or mkfs
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Mar 20 08:57:14 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 08:57:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Silly mkfs/badblocks question
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9AML9KqU3C0u0C=GCndaqxHb97EFPoK6zT85HxUHFfCkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303192324320.2290@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9AML9KqU3C0u0C=GCndaqxHb97EFPoK6zT85HxUHFfCkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303200857030.2290@dragon>


On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:

> dumpe2fs

Perfect, thanks.



--

From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 10:14:03 2013
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:14:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Kernel default items with "If unsure, say N." in help.
Message-ID: <5149D23B.20201@gmail.com>


Several kernel options are marked to install as default, yet the help 
instructs "If unsure, say N." or the equivalent.  This isn't a big deal 
and I'm certainly not losing sleep over it, but it seems contradictory.  
Does it make sense?  If so, what's the logic?

Two examples from linux-3.8.1 General setup:

General setup/Control Group support ---> - Say N is unsure.
General setup/Kprobes - If in doubt, say "N".

From droidjd at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 10:57:47 2013
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:57:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Kernel default items with "If unsure,
	say N." in help.
In-Reply-To: <5149D23B.20201@gmail.com>
References: <5149D23B.20201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdweZKuXpBSQr5XG_pumi0xLwJoHhSJqtipATARZhdxwgw@mail.gmail.com>

A lot of the extra features in the kernel are there to allow for easier
debugging when doing kernel development.  They typically add extra load to
deal with and slow down the system, overall.  (It's minimal, but it's still
a performance hit).

In the two you listed, Kprobes is just such a feature.  It helps with
debugging, so if you're a user who isn't doing kernel development, you
don't need it and probably wouldn't know what it was.  cgroups... I don't
know that there's any benefit to having cgroups unless you know how to use
them.  On their own, I believe their only use is if you have applications
that hook into them to limit resource usage.  So, I imagine if you don't
know what cgroups are, you really don't need them.  (And, again, they
include a tiny performance hit)

So, to answer your question, the features that have that listed seem like
they're more for power users or kernel developers, so to make sure you get
the most performance out of your custom rolled kernel, you shouldn't
include them unless you need them.

That's my take at least.

-Andrew


On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:14 AM, <rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Several kernel options are marked to install as default, yet the help
> instructs "If unsure, say N." or the equivalent.  This isn't a big deal and
> I'm certainly not losing sleep over it, but it seems contradictory.  Does
> it make sense?  If so, what's the logic?
>
> Two examples from linux-3.8.1 General setup:
>
> General setup/Control Group support ---> - Say N is unsure.
> General setup/Kprobes - If in doubt, say "N".
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 10:59:27 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:59:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtQ+SBVCTsikmc9a01kKR_joN_-w1dBY4i4X5ONsvXtag@mail.gmail.com>

When I click on the links to source code here --
http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
, Chrome downloads the file contents.
I'm not sure, but may have seen that with
another browser also.  Is that something that's
changed?  I have a link to an archive on that
page that can be downloaded which has all of
the files linked to on that page.  So I don't want
a browser to download individual files,but to
display the contents of the file on the screen.
Tia.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - John 3:16.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Mar 20 11:04:29 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:04:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Kernel default items with "If unsure,
 say N." in help.
In-Reply-To: <CAFjzMdweZKuXpBSQr5XG_pumi0xLwJoHhSJqtipATARZhdxwgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5149D23B.20201@gmail.com>
	<CAFjzMdweZKuXpBSQr5XG_pumi0xLwJoHhSJqtipATARZhdxwgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130320160429.GR27564@signbit.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:57:47AM -0500, Andrew Dahl wrote:
> A lot of the extra features in the kernel are there to allow for easier
> debugging when doing kernel development.  They typically add extra load to
> deal with and slow down the system, overall.  (It's minimal, but it's still
> a performance hit).
> 
> In the two you listed, Kprobes is just such a feature.  It helps with
> debugging, so if you're a user who isn't doing kernel development, you
> don't need it and probably wouldn't know what it was.
>                                                        cgroups... I don't
> know that there's any benefit to having cgroups unless you know how to use
> them.  On their own, I believe their only use is if you have applications
> that hook into them to limit resource usage.  So, I imagine if you don't
> know what cgroups are, you really don't need them.  (And, again, they
> include a tiny performance hit)

systemd uses cgroups so they are a required feature for Fedora 17+,
recent Suse and probably Debian.

florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 11:11:50 2013
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:11:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtQ+SBVCTsikmc9a01kKR_joN_-w1dBY4i4X5ONsvXtag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtQ+SBVCTsikmc9a01kKR_joN_-w1dBY4i4X5ONsvXtag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KUPgj2_EdfMVOMTy0Ti5dDPyeTA6Y8ejNCB0i1Loyx+Mw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I click on the links to source code here --
> http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
> , Chrome downloads the file contents.
> I'm not sure, but may have seen that with
> another browser also.  Is that something that's
> changed?  I have a link to an archive on that
> page that can be downloaded which has all of
> the files linked to on that page.  So I don't want
> a browser to download individual files,but to
> display the contents of the file on the screen.
> Tia.

That page is telling the browser that the content is of type
"application/octet-stream".  Since Chrome doesn't know how to display
application/octet-stream, it prompts you to download it.

What changed could be the browser, the server, or your memory :-)

It could be that the browser's default behavior changed from showing
application/octet-stream as plain-text to downloading.
It could be that the server changed from sending the files as
text/plain to application/octet-stream.
It could be that you only thought you remembered it working that way.

--
Michael

From florin at iucha.net  Wed Mar 20 11:22:00 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:22:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KUPgj2_EdfMVOMTy0Ti5dDPyeTA6Y8ejNCB0i1Loyx+Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtQ+SBVCTsikmc9a01kKR_joN_-w1dBY4i4X5ONsvXtag@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KUPgj2_EdfMVOMTy0Ti5dDPyeTA6Y8ejNCB0i1Loyx+Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130320162200.GS27564@signbit.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:11:50AM -0500, Michael Moore wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > When I click on the links to source code here --
> > http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
> > , Chrome downloads the file contents.
> > I'm not sure, but may have seen that with
> > another browser also.  Is that something that's
> > changed?  I have a link to an archive on that
> > page that can be downloaded which has all of
> > the files linked to on that page.  So I don't want
> > a browser to download individual files,but to
> > display the contents of the file on the screen.
> > Tia.
> 
> That page is telling the browser that the content is of type
> "application/octet-stream".  Since Chrome doesn't know how to display
> application/octet-stream, it prompts you to download it.
> 
> What changed could be the browser, the server, or your memory :-)
> 
> It could be that the browser's default behavior changed from showing
> application/octet-stream as plain-text to downloading.
> It could be that the server changed from sending the files as
> text/plain to application/octet-stream.
> It could be that you only thought you remembered it working that way.

... or it could be that last time, the browser checked the octet stream
and found it containing only printable characters, and gave it a shot
at displaying it.  Now, you might have slipped a control char or some
high-byte and the browser is taking a 'safe' approach.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 11:27:11 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:27:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSolaris
Message-ID: <CABWFOju2Boc3N2DYKrNbjnRDHfsM-KJ5ARYF_Mmk=EA-WcKdRw@mail.gmail.com>

Is anyone using OpenSolaris?  I know Oracle closed Solaris
development, but there are derivatives of OpenSolaris.  I'm using
Arch Linux, but am thinking about the following comments from
a C++ newsgroup.  I'm thinking that eventually I may use Solaris
from Oracle so using OpenSolaris before that might be a good idea.
Tia.

>>>> One thing about Unix, especially modern Linux distros, is that it has
>>>> been kind of designed for development, unlike Windows, which has been
>>>> designed as a graphical user interface, with little regard to anything
>>>> else.
>>>
>>> That comment shouldn't be specific to Linux, most modern UNIX systems
>>> are equally, if not more, developer friendly.
>>
>> Apart from the *BSDs, not in the sense that JN meant.  Are there
>> really any left, anyway?
>
> In my opinion Solaris (and the numerous OpenSolaris derivatives) have
> better developer tools than Linux, especially for analysing applications
> (and the OS) in a production0n environment.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - so far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Mar 20 11:42:37 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:42:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSolaris
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOju2Boc3N2DYKrNbjnRDHfsM-KJ5ARYF_Mmk=EA-WcKdRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOju2Boc3N2DYKrNbjnRDHfsM-KJ5ARYF_Mmk=EA-WcKdRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130320164237.GT27564@signbit.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:27:11AM -0500, Brian Wood wrote:
> Is anyone using OpenSolaris?  I know Oracle closed Solaris
> development, but there are derivatives of OpenSolaris.  I'm using
> Arch Linux, but am thinking about the following comments from
> a C++ newsgroup.  I'm thinking that eventually I may use Solaris
> from Oracle so using OpenSolaris before that might be a good idea.
> Tia.
> 
> >>>> One thing about Unix, especially modern Linux distros, is that it has
> >>>> been kind of designed for development, unlike Windows, which has been
> >>>> designed as a graphical user interface, with little regard to anything
> >>>> else.
> >>>
> >>> That comment shouldn't be specific to Linux, most modern UNIX systems
> >>> are equally, if not more, developer friendly.
> >>
> >> Apart from the *BSDs, not in the sense that JN meant.  Are there
> >> really any left, anyway?
> >
> > In my opinion Solaris (and the numerous OpenSolaris derivatives) have
> > better developer tools than Linux, especially for analysing applications
> > (and the OS) in a production0n environment.

Dtrace is a better system performance evaluation tool, and that's
about the only thing that *Solaris has 'better' than Linux at this
point.  The Sun^WOracle Studio C/C++ compilers runs just fine under
Linux as well, if you need second set of diagnostics (it usually helps
to keep code clean and portable).

I used to run it in a KVM virtual machine, just for testing purposes.
I tried to run it on bare metal, but the lack of hardware support
reminds me of Linux circa '97.  Case in point, I have motherboard
(EVGA with dual onboard Gigabit 3COM/Marvell controllers) that Linux
runs smoothly on.  Solaris works as well, and even has driver for the
family of NICs that include my particular model, but my NICs PCI ids
are blacklisted due to some bug that was sitting in a bugzilla for two
years.  It did not reach critical mass with enthusiasts so it does
have a bleak future for hobbyists.

OpenSolaris is slowly becoming like MacOS - it only runs on certain
hardware configurations.  The 'uber' UNIX hackers at Sun wanted to
keep all the goodness for themselves... now, they can have it, since
nobody else can run it, should they want to.  The *BSDs have much
better hardware support.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From tlunde at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 11:49:17 2013
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:49:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <20130320162200.GS27564@signbit.net>
References: <CABWFOjtQ+SBVCTsikmc9a01kKR_joN_-w1dBY4i4X5ONsvXtag@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KUPgj2_EdfMVOMTy0Ti5dDPyeTA6Y8ejNCB0i1Loyx+Mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130320162200.GS27564@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <F614C6B8-EF03-4AC9-B5EF-04486FD69B8F@gmail.com>

I've seen a web server configured so that only .htm files are served correctly & .html files were served as binaries. 

Look at httpd.conf or similar. 

Thomas


On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:11:50AM -0500, Michael Moore wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> When I click on the links to source code here --
>>> http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
>>> , Chrome downloads the file contents.
>>> I'm not sure, but may have seen that with
>>> another browser also.  Is that something that's
>>> changed?  I have a link to an archive on that
>>> page that can be downloaded which has all of
>>> the files linked to on that page.  So I don't want
>>> a browser to download individual files,but to
>>> display the contents of the file on the screen.
>>> Tia.
>> 
>> That page is telling the browser that the content is of type
>> "application/octet-stream".  Since Chrome doesn't know how to display
>> application/octet-stream, it prompts you to download it.
>> 
>> What changed could be the browser, the server, or your memory :-)
>> 
>> It could be that the browser's default behavior changed from showing
>> application/octet-stream as plain-text to downloading.
>> It could be that the server changed from sending the files as
>> text/plain to application/octet-stream.
>> It could be that you only thought you remembered it working that way.
> 
> ... or it could be that last time, the browser checked the octet stream
> and found it containing only printable characters, and gave it a shot
> at displaying it.  Now, you might have slipped a control char or some
> high-byte and the browser is taking a 'safe' approach.
> 
> Cheers,
> florin
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my other microwave oven.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 13:09:29 2013
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:09:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KUPgj2_EdfMVOMTy0Ti5dDPyeTA6Y8ejNCB0i1Loyx+Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtQ+SBVCTsikmc9a01kKR_joN_-w1dBY4i4X5ONsvXtag@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KUPgj2_EdfMVOMTy0Ti5dDPyeTA6Y8ejNCB0i1Loyx+Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEHxO3_zptk0C0b9=EzL33pYr=EK1jTLhE5XFi7TGqGO-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brian,
It looks like you corrected the Content-Type... this is what I'm seeing:

~ ? curl -I http://webebenezer.net/build_integration.html
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: nginx/1.2.7
Content-Type: text/html
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 3479
Last-Modified: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:34:36 UTC
Connection: keep-alive

(the -I switch shows the http headers, which is what your browsers
uses to determine how to handle the content).

On my nginx server, which is from the Ubuntu repository, I have a file
called /etc/nginx/mime.types, which contains a map of file extensions
and their corresponding mime types:

erikm at linode:/etc/nginx$ cat mime.types

types {
    text/html                             html htm shtml;
    text/css                              css;
    text/xml                              xml rss;
    image/gif                             gif;
    image/jpeg                            jpeg jpg;
[...]
    video/x-ms-wmv                        wmv;
    video/x-msvideo                       avi;
}

This file is included in nginx.conf:

erikm at linode:/etc/nginx$ grep -R mime.types *
nginx.conf:    include       /etc/nginx/mime.types;

Hope that helps!

-Erik

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> When I click on the links to source code here --
>> http://webEbenezer.net/build_integration.html
>> , Chrome downloads the file contents.
>> I'm not sure, but may have seen that with
>> another browser also.  Is that something that's
>> changed?  I have a link to an archive on that
>> page that can be downloaded which has all of
>> the files linked to on that page.  So I don't want
>> a browser to download individual files,but to
>> display the contents of the file on the screen.
>> Tia.
>
> That page is telling the browser that the content is of type
> "application/octet-stream".  Since Chrome doesn't know how to display
> application/octet-stream, it prompts you to download it.
>
> What changed could be the browser, the server, or your memory :-)
>
> It could be that the browser's default behavior changed from showing
> application/octet-stream as plain-text to downloading.
> It could be that the server changed from sending the files as
> text/plain to application/octet-stream.
> It could be that you only thought you remembered it working that way.
>
> --
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 15:19:20 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:19:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I have been doing this now and then for a long time, but resources on the 
web are always changing and there may be lots of good new stuff.  The 
thing is, there's always so much out there that it's hard to decide which 
things to use.

I'll be teaching a group of grad students how to use our Linux server next 
Tuesday.  I always start by showing the basic commands like ls, rm, mkdir, 
etc.  The best thing would be to minimize class time dedicated to that 
kind of thing and give them something nice on the web that will show them 
a lot of the most useful things people do from the command prompt. 
There's so much to know and it's hard to decide where to start and where 
to end.  So I'd like to give them something they can use to go much 
farther on their own, for those who want to do that.

It would be great to hear from you guys if you have some ideas about good 
web resources for training Linux users (all using Bash shell).  Thanks.

Mike

From jake.vath at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 17:28:00 2013
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:28:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>

I, typically, point people to the Advanced Bash-Scripting
Guide<http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/>
.
Although the title says 'Advanced', It has a good introduction to shell
programming (who's, what's, why's...etc).
It also has a great section on the 'Basics' of shell scripting.

I reference this guide quite ofter.
I hope this helps.

-> Jake

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been doing this now and then for a long time, but resources on the
> web are always changing and there may be lots of good new stuff.  The thing
> is, there's always so much out there that it's hard to decide which things
> to use.
>
> I'll be teaching a group of grad students how to use our Linux server next
> Tuesday.  I always start by showing the basic commands like ls, rm, mkdir,
> etc.  The best thing would be to minimize class time dedicated to that kind
> of thing and give them something nice on the web that will show them a lot
> of the most useful things people do from the command prompt. There's so
> much to know and it's hard to decide where to start and where to end.  So
> I'd like to give them something they can use to go much farther on their
> own, for those who want to do that.
>
> It would be great to hear from you guys if you have some ideas about good
> web resources for training Linux users (all using Bash shell).  Thanks.
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Mar 20 17:50:37 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:50:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9C3rgQzzGgjvV_aop1pF_VsiUfErB+fjuH3EOwRQWetdg@mail.gmail.com>

man bash
has to be mentioned.  terse, thorough, definitive.  not a primer of course,
but it's how i learned.
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From kc0iog at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 21:20:25 2013
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:20:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSolaris
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOju2Boc3N2DYKrNbjnRDHfsM-KJ5ARYF_Mmk=EA-WcKdRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOju2Boc3N2DYKrNbjnRDHfsM-KJ5ARYF_Mmk=EA-WcKdRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=fM3yRpiJ3S-bE6M5XF=jyjKOBbuR8Zc6t+o3L6x4yAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is anyone using OpenSolaris?  I know Oracle closed Solaris
> development, but there are derivatives of OpenSolaris.

I think OpenSolaris is dead (thanks Oracle!) but OpenIndiana is still
out there.  I've used OpenIndiana, as well as Solaris for x86.

  I'm using
> Arch Linux, but am thinking about the following comments from
> a C++ newsgroup.

>> In my opinion Solaris (and the numerous OpenSolaris derivatives) have
>> better developer tools than Linux, especially for analysing applications
>> (and the OS) in a production0n environment.

I think you need to have this person elaborate a bit more.  Yes, there
are some Solaris customized tools but I wouldn't jump to a completely
different OS based on some random newsgroup post.  Linux has a very
robust suite of tools,

  I'm thinking that eventually I may use Solaris
> from Oracle so using OpenSolaris before that might be a good idea.

As I recall, Solaris 11 is free in non-production use.  Unless you
have a reason to run open source, may as well just jump in to the full
OS.

Brian

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 21:23:22 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:23:22 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSolaris
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvDdb2mbdXPrrkxXeP2ZNythE4YNhAQey5QC29KjYExjw@mail.gmail.com>

Florin Iucha writes:
>
> Dtrace is a better system performance evaluation tool, and that's
> about the only thing that *Solaris has 'better' than Linux at this
> point.  The Sun^WOracle Studio C/C++ compilers runs just fine under
> Linux as well, if you need second set of diagnostics (it usually helps
> to keep code clean and portable).
>

I agree that using multiple toolsets is helpful.  Linux/G++ is my
favorite.  I've used Windows and Visual Studio as a secondary
toolset for a number of years and have been surprised that it has
helped me find 3 or more problems that I wasn't finding with
Linux/G++.  Recently I installed clang on Linux and it helped
me find an error (repeated in 4 places) that the other two had
been missing.

> I used to run it in a KVM virtual machine, just for testing purposes.
> I tried to run it on bare metal, but the lack of hardware support
> reminds me of Linux circa '97.  Case in point, I have motherboard
> (EVGA with dual onboard Gigabit 3COM/Marvell controllers) that Linux
> runs smoothly on.  Solaris works as well, and even has driver for the
> family of NICs that include my particular model, but my NICs PCI ids
> are blacklisted due to some bug that was sitting in a bugzilla for two
> years.  It did not reach critical mass with enthusiasts so it does
> have a bleak future for hobbyists.
>
> OpenSolaris is slowly becoming like MacOS - it only runs on certain
> hardware configurations.  The 'uber' UNIX hackers at Sun wanted to
> keep all the goodness for themselves... now, they can have it, since
> nobody else can run it, should they want to.  The *BSDs have much
> better hardware support.
>

Hmm.  Yeah, I hear about dtrace and am interested in that.
Heard a little about it being ported to Linux, but haven't
checked into that.  Your point about hardware though
might not matter to me other than it being a limiting
factor in terms of what I'd buy.  If there remains some
"goodness" to Solaris that might be what I need since this
is for my datacenter.  I posted your answer to the C++
thread and maybe the pro-Solaris guy there will reply.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises - in G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From florin at iucha.net  Wed Mar 20 21:37:48 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 21:37:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSolaris
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjvDdb2mbdXPrrkxXeP2ZNythE4YNhAQey5QC29KjYExjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjvDdb2mbdXPrrkxXeP2ZNythE4YNhAQey5QC29KjYExjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130321023748.GW27564@signbit.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 02:23:22AM +0000, Brian Wood wrote:
> > Dtrace is a better system performance evaluation tool, and that's
> > about the only thing that *Solaris has 'better' than Linux at this
> > point.  The Sun^WOracle Studio C/C++ compilers runs just fine under
> > Linux as well, if you need second set of diagnostics (it usually helps
> > to keep code clean and portable).
> >
> 
> I agree that using multiple toolsets is helpful.  Linux/G++ is my
> favorite.  I've used Windows and Visual Studio as a secondary
> toolset for a number of years and have been surprised that it has
> helped me find 3 or more problems that I wasn't finding with
> Linux/G++.  Recently I installed clang on Linux and it helped
> me find an error (repeated in 4 places) that the other two had
> been missing.

I also liked the C/C++ diagnostics from the Intel C++ compiler.  There
is a 30 days evaluation version, after which is $700.

> > OpenSolaris is slowly becoming like MacOS - it only runs on certain
> > hardware configurations.  The 'uber' UNIX hackers at Sun wanted to
> > keep all the goodness for themselves... now, they can have it, since
> > nobody else can run it, should they want to.  The *BSDs have much
> > better hardware support.
> 
> Hmm.  Yeah, I hear about dtrace and am interested in that.
> Heard a little about it being ported to Linux, but haven't
> checked into that.  Your point about hardware though
> might not matter to me other than it being a limiting
> factor in terms of what I'd buy.  If there remains some
> "goodness" to Solaris that might be what I need since this
> is for my datacenter.  I posted your answer to the C++
> thread and maybe the pro-Solaris guy there will reply.

Be careful and ask lots of questions and only buy what people say they
have working already.

Best,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 22:08:39 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 03:08:39 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
Message-ID: <CABWFOjuuLX1aOxGyR=L0_D=Ca2Rt0O9EKJSc3mBctzo=7ySx2A@mail.gmail.com>

Erik Mitchell writes:

> Hi Brian,
> It looks like you corrected the Content-Type... this is what I'm seeing:
>
> ~ ? curl -I http://webebenezer.net/build_integration.html
> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
> Server: nginx/1.2.7
> Content-Type: text/html
> Accept-Ranges: bytes
> Content-Length: 3479
> Last-Modified: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:34:36 UTC
> Connection: keep-alive
>
> (the -I switch shows the http headers, which is what your browsers
> uses to determine how to handle the content).
>

Hi Erik,

I was talking about most of the files that are linked to from that page.
For example, the file called cmwAmbassador.hh.   I forgot to mention
that the results I wrote about earlier are onWindows.  If I click on the
link for that file using IE it is displayed like I want, but if I do the
same
with Chrome it downloads the file to a directory.

> On my nginx server, which is from the Ubuntu repository, I have a file
> called /etc/nginx/mime.types, which contains a map of file extensions
> and their corresponding mime types:
>
> erikm at linode:/etc/nginx$ cat mime.types
>
>  types {
>     text/html                             html htm shtml;
>     text/css                              css;
>     text/xml                              xml rss;
>     image/gif                             gif;
>     image/jpeg                            jpeg jpg;
> [...]
>     video/x-ms-wmv                        wmv;
>     video/x-msvideo                       avi;
> }
>
> This file is included in nginx.conf:
>
> erikm at linode:/etc/nginx$ grep -R mime.types *
> nginx.conf:    include       /etc/nginx/mime.types;

Thank you for the explanation.  I just added cc and hh to the
text/html line and restarted nginx. Haven't checked yet if that
helps but plan to in a little bit.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From stuporglue at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 22:11:38 2013
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:11:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjuuLX1aOxGyR=L0_D=Ca2Rt0O9EKJSc3mBctzo=7ySx2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjuuLX1aOxGyR=L0_D=Ca2Rt0O9EKJSc3mBctzo=7ySx2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KXt2Q_X4WfE3_7xmwnbOe0MwOb+X0=fLwuk1Oc4UsZAWA@mail.gmail.com>

> Thank you for the explanation.  I just added cc and hh to the
> text/html line and restarted nginx. Haven't checked yet if that
> helps but plan to in a little bit.

I think you're going to want them to be set to text/plain, otherwise
the browser will treat them like html, including collapsing multiple
whitespace into a single space, etc.

--
Michael

From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 22:17:02 2013
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 22:17:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Browser behaviour
In-Reply-To: <CAFE18KXt2Q_X4WfE3_7xmwnbOe0MwOb+X0=fLwuk1Oc4UsZAWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjuuLX1aOxGyR=L0_D=Ca2Rt0O9EKJSc3mBctzo=7ySx2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFE18KXt2Q_X4WfE3_7xmwnbOe0MwOb+X0=fLwuk1Oc4UsZAWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEGhP+mx-YHhk75OQ8d96Dwie2MSoihGOxUD_yZupp1Raw@mail.gmail.com>

> I think you're going to want them to be set to text/plain, otherwise
> the browser will treat them like html, including collapsing multiple
> whitespace into a single space, etc.

Agreed.

-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Mar 20 23:39:24 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 23:39:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>

Hi all,

Ok, I've been running a software RAID5 on one of my older systems for a 
while. Almost every time I reboot, it claims the RAID is degraded and 
dumps me into busybox, where all I can really do is exit and HOME it'll 
see the drives next time I reboot. This is solved by rebooting anywhere 
from 2 to 20 times.

I figured it was this system or these harddrives or this SATA controller 
or... whatever. But I just set up a brand new RAID array on a brand new 
machine using brand-new drives and a brand-new array, etc, etc. Same exact 
issue.


Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing something wrong, or what?







--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 23:52:57 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 23:52:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303202108290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Thanks, but that is way, way too advanced for the people I'll be working 
with.  The level should be more like "there's a 'sort' command and this is 
what it does," or an explanation of pipes, or how to use the semi-colon on 
the command line, or parentheses to make subshells, but some of those are 
even a little advanced.  These are psychology and genetics grad students.

The biggest questions I have are about the best order to teach things in. 
What's best -- explain the concept of a shell, or just start typing 
commands?  Probably the former, then go to the kernel/shell concept, then 
back to commands.  They need to know about "arguments" and "options". 
They don't know anything.  I know that they can make good use of sort, 
grep and awk for grabbing certain info in big data files.  They need to 
know how to use 'less' for looking at output.  Then there are gazillions 
more little things that we use like cp, mv, cd, df, du, cut, paste, tr and 
a lot of aliases, plus a lot more that I can't think of off the cuff.

Like I said, I've done this before but I was hoping someone knew some good 
web pages for the basics, in a step-by-step kind of layout.

Mike


On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Jake Vath wrote:

> I, typically, point people to the Advanced Bash-Scripting
> Guide<http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/>
> .
> Although the title says 'Advanced', It has a good introduction to shell
> programming (who's, what's, why's...etc).
> It also has a great section on the 'Basics' of shell scripting.
>
> I reference this guide quite ofter.
> I hope this helps.
>
> -> Jake
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been doing this now and then for a long time, but resources on the
>> web are always changing and there may be lots of good new stuff.  The thing
>> is, there's always so much out there that it's hard to decide which things
>> to use.
>>
>> I'll be teaching a group of grad students how to use our Linux server next
>> Tuesday.  I always start by showing the basic commands like ls, rm, mkdir,
>> etc.  The best thing would be to minimize class time dedicated to that kind
>> of thing and give them something nice on the web that will show them a lot
>> of the most useful things people do from the command prompt. There's so
>> much to know and it's hard to decide where to start and where to end.  So
>> I'd like to give them something they can use to go much farther on their
>> own, for those who want to do that.
>>
>> It would be great to hear from you guys if you have some ideas about 
>> good web resources for training Linux users (all using Bash shell). 
>> Thanks.

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 00:16:11 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 00:16:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:

> Ok, I've been running a software RAID5 on one of my older systems for a 
> while. Almost every time I reboot, it claims the RAID is degraded and 
> dumps me into busybox, where all I can really do is exit and HOME it'll 
> see the drives next time I reboot. This is solved by rebooting anywhere 
> from 2 to 20 times.
>
> I figured it was this system or these harddrives or this SATA controller 
> or... whatever. But I just set up a brand new RAID array on a brand new 
> machine using brand-new drives and a brand-new array, etc, etc. Same 
> exact issue.
>
> Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing something wrong, or what?


I don't really know anything except that the tricky part of making my RAID 
1 work was figuring out how the boot partition is supposed to be set up. 
I didn't get that right and then after a kernel update it wouldn't reboot 
unless I went back to the earlier kernel.  That might be irrelevant, but 
judging from things I was reading on web forums and advice I was getting, 
this is a tricky issue.  With larger drives (more than 2.2 TB) we have to 
use GPT instead of MBR and then all kinds of little annoyances come along. 
Are you using GPT?

Mike

From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 06:58:55 2013
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 06:58:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Kernel default items with "If unsure,
 say N." in help.
In-Reply-To: <CAFjzMdweZKuXpBSQr5XG_pumi0xLwJoHhSJqtipATARZhdxwgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5149D23B.20201@gmail.com>
	<CAFjzMdweZKuXpBSQr5XG_pumi0xLwJoHhSJqtipATARZhdxwgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514AF5FF.3040201@gmail.com>


Your explanation is good and it suggests the help is correct.  But that 
the help is correct speaks to my point.  It just seems a non-essential, 
quite optional item should not be marked as default to build.  It should 
be the other way around.

On 03/20/13 10:57, Andrew Dahl wrote:
> A lot of the extra features in the kernel are there to allow for 
> easier debugging when doing kernel development.  They typically add 
> extra load to deal with and slow down the system, overall.  (It's 
> minimal, but it's still a performance hit).
>
> In the two you listed, Kprobes is just such a feature.  It helps with 
> debugging, so if you're a user who isn't doing kernel development, you 
> don't need it and probably wouldn't know what it was.  cgroups... I 
> don't know that there's any benefit to having cgroups unless you know 
> how to use them.  On their own, I believe their only use is if you 
> have applications that hook into them to limit resource usage.  So, I 
> imagine if you don't know what cgroups are, you really don't need 
> them.  (And, again, they include a tiny performance hit)
>
> So, to answer your question, the features that have that listed seem 
> like they're more for power users or kernel developers, so to make 
> sure you get the most performance out of your custom rolled kernel, 
> you shouldn't include them unless you need them.
>
> That's my take at least.
>
> -Andrew
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:14 AM, <rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com 
> <mailto:rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     Several kernel options are marked to install as default, yet the
>     help instructs "If unsure, say N." or the equivalent.  This isn't
>     a big deal and I'm certainly not losing sleep over it, but it
>     seems contradictory.  Does it make sense?  If so, what's the logic?
>
>     Two examples from linux-3.8.1 General setup:
>
>     General setup/Control Group support ---> - Say N is unsure.
>     General setup/Kprobes - If in doubt, say "N".
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From jake.vath at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 07:55:59 2013
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 07:55:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303202108290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303202108290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmgOH-TOfYBnrUgPM41fDGrusQgh1m+cXqDMfk6ojvfwRw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> or an explanation of pipes, or how to use the semi-colon on the command
> line, or parentheses to make subshells, but some of those are even a little
> advanced.
>
Yeah, subshells and an actual explanation of pipes and how they work is
quite advanced...

 The biggest questions I have are about the best order to teach things in.
> What's best -- explain the concept of a shell, or just start typing
> commands?  Probably the former, then go to the kernel/shell concept, then
> back to commands.

I think you're right.
I'd start out with a little history on the shell, this doesn't have to be
Bash specific.
Just touch on the conception of, "The Shell".

Maybe mention some stuff about how a shell is a command interpreter.
It's another layer of abstraction between the operating system and the user.
Mention something to the affect of shell scripting is *really* just a way
of gluing together system calls, tools, utilities, and other programs.
Why do we need a shell? What you can do/should do/ should not do with the
shell.
Mention shell limitations.

How much time do you have with these students? One day?

-> Jake

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, but that is way, way too advanced for the people I'll be working
> with.  The level should be more like "there's a 'sort' command and this is
> what it does," or an explanation of pipes, or how to use the semi-colon on
> the command line, or parentheses to make subshells, but some of those are
> even a little advanced.  These are psychology and genetics grad students.
>
> The biggest questions I have are about the best order to teach things in.
> What's best -- explain the concept of a shell, or just start typing
> commands?  Probably the former, then go to the kernel/shell concept, then
> back to commands.  They need to know about "arguments" and "options". They
> don't know anything.  I know that they can make good use of sort, grep and
> awk for grabbing certain info in big data files.  They need to know how to
> use 'less' for looking at output.  Then there are gazillions more little
> things that we use like cp, mv, cd, df, du, cut, paste, tr and a lot of
> aliases, plus a lot more that I can't think of off the cuff.
>
> Like I said, I've done this before but I was hoping someone knew some good
> web pages for the basics, in a step-by-step kind of layout.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Jake Vath wrote:
>
>  I, typically, point people to the Advanced Bash-Scripting
>> Guide<http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/**html/ <http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/>>
>>
>> .
>> Although the title says 'Advanced', It has a good introduction to shell
>> programming (who's, what's, why's...etc).
>> It also has a great section on the 'Basics' of shell scripting.
>>
>> I reference this guide quite ofter.
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> -> Jake
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I have been doing this now and then for a long time, but resources on the
>>> web are always changing and there may be lots of good new stuff.  The
>>> thing
>>> is, there's always so much out there that it's hard to decide which
>>> things
>>> to use.
>>>
>>> I'll be teaching a group of grad students how to use our Linux server
>>> next
>>> Tuesday.  I always start by showing the basic commands like ls, rm,
>>> mkdir,
>>> etc.  The best thing would be to minimize class time dedicated to that
>>> kind
>>> of thing and give them something nice on the web that will show them a
>>> lot
>>> of the most useful things people do from the command prompt. There's so
>>> much to know and it's hard to decide where to start and where to end.  So
>>> I'd like to give them something they can use to go much farther on their
>>> own, for those who want to do that.
>>>
>>> It would be great to hear from you guys if you have some ideas about
>>> good web resources for training Linux users (all using Bash shell). Thanks.
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 08:19:23 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:19:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>

I'm not using a partition table on the RAID device at all, but that's moot 
since I'm not booting off it. It gets mounted well after the OS is done 
booting... but it makes the boot process hang for random reasons.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>
>> Ok, I've been running a software RAID5 on one of my older systems for a 
>> while. Almost every time I reboot, it claims the RAID is degraded and dumps 
>> me into busybox, where all I can really do is exit and HOME it'll see the 
>> drives next time I reboot. This is solved by rebooting anywhere from 2 to 
>> 20 times.
>> 
>> I figured it was this system or these harddrives or this SATA controller 
>> or... whatever. But I just set up a brand new RAID array on a brand new 
>> machine using brand-new drives and a brand-new array, etc, etc. Same exact 
>> issue.
>> 
>> Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing something wrong, or what?
>
>
> I don't really know anything except that the tricky part of making my RAID 1 
> work was figuring out how the boot partition is supposed to be set up. I 
> didn't get that right and then after a kernel update it wouldn't reboot 
> unless I went back to the earlier kernel.  That might be irrelevant, but 
> judging from things I was reading on web forums and advice I was getting, 
> this is a tricky issue.  With larger drives (more than 2.2 TB) we have to use 
> GPT instead of MBR and then all kinds of little annoyances come along. Are 
> you using GPT?
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



--

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 08:40:16 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:40:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2KkYBZL=YVokiC4ukhHFY+y7wjbmY-UUNK0yZNReShqg@mail.gmail.com>

This site is pretty cool: http://nixsrv.com/llthw

I teach UNIX for undergrad, some like the site above if they are
motivated enough. Otherwise we use SDF.org for a server to connect to,
they have a teaching group (free) that works well for an entry level
course and for programming and scripting. I set the class up for BASH
primarily and we cover some basics for a few other shells.

I recommend dividing up your teaching in segments; start with basic
command line directives like you mentioned (primarily navigating
around CLI, most people don't know how). pwd, cd (going "home"), ls,
and tree, are good places to start. I move on to manipulation and
creation of files (cat, VIM, nano, etc) as its own section, then
security and FS (permissions, inodes).

I won't recommend the book I use as it's terrible and my hands are
tied with it. However I make the labs from a few different resources
on my own.

Hope that helps,

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been doing this now and then for a long time, but resources on the
> web are always changing and there may be lots of good new stuff.  The thing
> is, there's always so much out there that it's hard to decide which things
> to use.
>
> I'll be teaching a group of grad students how to use our Linux server next
> Tuesday.  I always start by showing the basic commands like ls, rm, mkdir,
> etc.  The best thing would be to minimize class time dedicated to that kind
> of thing and give them something nice on the web that will show them a lot
> of the most useful things people do from the command prompt. There's so much
> to know and it's hard to decide where to start and where to end.  So I'd
> like to give them something they can use to go much farther on their own,
> for those who want to do that.
>
> It would be great to hear from you guys if you have some ideas about good
> web resources for training Linux users (all using Bash shell).  Thanks.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 09:17:28 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:17:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

But if it fails after the OS is done booting, why does it dump you into 
busybox?  I think that happened to me only when my updated kernel was not 
being found because it had been written to the wrong partition.  That 
shouldn't happen in a brand-new setup, though.  Under what conditions does 
busybox make an appearance?

Mike


On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:

> I'm not using a partition table on the RAID device at all, but that's moot 
> since I'm not booting off it. It gets mounted well after the OS is done 
> booting... but it makes the boot process hang for random reasons.
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok, I've been running a software RAID5 on one of my older systems for a 
>>> while. Almost every time I reboot, it claims the RAID is degraded and 
>>> dumps me into busybox, where all I can really do is exit and HOME it'll 
>>> see the drives next time I reboot. This is solved by rebooting anywhere 
>>> from 2 to 20 times.
>>> 
>>> I figured it was this system or these harddrives or this SATA controller 
>>> or... whatever. But I just set up a brand new RAID array on a brand new 
>>> machine using brand-new drives and a brand-new array, etc, etc. Same exact 
>>> issue.
>>> 
>>> Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing something wrong, or what?
>> 
>> 
>> I don't really know anything except that the tricky part of making my RAID 
>> 1 work was figuring out how the boot partition is supposed to be set up. I 
>> didn't get that right and then after a kernel update it wouldn't reboot 
>> unless I went back to the earlier kernel.  That might be irrelevant, but 
>> judging from things I was reading on web forums and advice I was getting, 
>> this is a tricky issue.  With larger drives (more than 2.2 TB) we have to 
>> use GPT instead of MBR and then all kinds of little annoyances come along. 
>> Are you using GPT?
>> 
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 09:20:41 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:20:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>

They get MOUNTED after the OS boots. I think mdadm tries to start the 
array up well before that, for some reason it fails and dumps me into 
busybox. I'm not entirely sure what exactly is going on, really, RAID's 
never been my thing.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:

> But if it fails after the OS is done booting, why does it dump you into 
> busybox?  I think that happened to me only when my updated kernel was not 
> being found because it had been written to the wrong partition.  That 
> shouldn't happen in a brand-new setup, though.  Under what conditions does 
> busybox make an appearance?
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>
>> I'm not using a partition table on the RAID device at all, but that's moot 
>> since I'm not booting off it. It gets mounted well after the OS is done 
>> booting... but it makes the boot process hang for random reasons.
>> 
>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Ok, I've been running a software RAID5 on one of my older systems for a 
>>>> while. Almost every time I reboot, it claims the RAID is degraded and 
>>>> dumps me into busybox, where all I can really do is exit and HOME it'll 
>>>> see the drives next time I reboot. This is solved by rebooting anywhere 
>>>> from 2 to 20 times.
>>>> 
>>>> I figured it was this system or these harddrives or this SATA controller 
>>>> or... whatever. But I just set up a brand new RAID array on a brand new 
>>>> machine using brand-new drives and a brand-new array, etc, etc. Same 
>>>> exact issue.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing something wrong, or what?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don't really know anything except that the tricky part of making my RAID 
>>> 1 work was figuring out how the boot partition is supposed to be set up. I 
>>> didn't get that right and then after a kernel update it wouldn't reboot 
>>> unless I went back to the earlier kernel.  That might be irrelevant, but 
>>> judging from things I was reading on web forums and advice I was getting, 
>>> this is a tricky issue.  With larger drives (more than 2.2 TB) we have to 
>>> use GPT instead of MBR and then all kinds of little annoyances come along. 
>>> Are you using GPT?
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



--

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Mar 21 09:30:21 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:30:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>

what's in fstab?  errors=remount-ro?  errors=continue?  nobootwait?

tho i confess i dunno if anything in fstab actually affects softraid error
response.  i can tell you that interpretation of certain fstab options
varies considerably amongst distros and releases..
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 09:35:53 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:35:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210934230.5632@dragon>

fstab has defaults. But this is well before mounting happens. If I let it 
boot with the "degraded" raid, THEN it has a problem mounting, but that's 
not a problem, really. The problem is that when mdadm starts assembling 
the RAID (I think) it fails and drops me into busybox.

This happens right at the top of the kernel boot, so there's really no 
logging or any useful error reporting going on.


On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:

> what's in fstab?? errors=remount-ro?? errors=continue?? nobootwait?
> 
> tho i confess i dunno if anything in fstab actually affects softraid error
> response.? i can tell you that interpretation of certain fstab options
> varies considerably amongst distros and releases..
> 
>



--

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Mar 21 09:44:05 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:44:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>

there's been alot of change in (ubuntu) mountall recently, between and
within versions.  it handles fsck, not so sure re raid tho..

you could try errors=continue,nobootwait
and see if they help
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From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Thu Mar 21 09:40:00 2013
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:40:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210934230.5632@dragon>
Message-ID: <514B1BC0-00058246@penguinpackets.com>

Boot System Rescue CD and check it out.  

http://www.sysresccd.org  

It will give you all the tools you need to investigate without booting in to
the live filesystem.  

Kelly  
>  Thu Mar 21 2013 09:35:53 AM CDT from "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> 
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
>
>  fstab has defaults. But this is well before mounting happens. If I let it 
> boot with the "degraded" raid, THEN it has a problem mounting, but that's 
> not a problem, really. The problem is that when mdadm starts assembling 
> the RAID (I think) it fails and drops me into busybox.
> 
> This happens right at the top of the kernel boot, so there's really no 
> logging or any useful error reporting going on.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:
> 
>  
>>what's in fstab?? errors=remount-ro?? errors=continue?? nobootwait?
>> 
>> tho i confess i dunno if anything in fstab actually affects softraid error
>> response.? i can tell you that interpretation of certain fstab options
>> varies considerably amongst distros and releases..
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

>  --
> 
>   (, 0 bytes) [View| Download]
>  ?
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  

  

?
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 09:48:01 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210947140.5632@dragon>

Again, this is happening well before mounting even takes place. If the 
RAID starts up with no problems there's never a problem mounting.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:

> there's been alot of change in (ubuntu) mountall recently, between and
> within versions.? it handles fsck, not so sure re raid tho..
> 
> you could try errors=continue,nobootwait
> and see if they help
> 
>



--

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Mar 21 09:48:09 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:48:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>

you might go looking for /etc/init/mdadm.conf or similar.
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 09:50:31 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:50:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <514B1BC0-00058246@penguinpackets.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210934230.5632@dragon>
	<514B1BC0-00058246@penguinpackets.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210948250.5632@dragon>

My problem is I have no idea what to investigate. That's kind of what I'm 
asking. What do I look at? I don't know a lot about mdadm past actually 
creating the array.

This has happened to me on different machines with different hardware, 
different kernels, different versions of ubuntu. When the kernel starts 
booting, just starts, it says the RAID is degraded and throws me into 
busybox... and if I just reboot a few times it ends up working just fine. 
so SOMEthing weird is going on, but I have no idea where to look for it.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, kelly wrote:

> 
> Boot System Rescue CD and check it out.
> 
> http://www.sysresccd.org
> 
> It will give you all the tools you need to investigate without booting in to
> the live filesystem.
> 
> Kelly
>
>       Thu Mar 21 2013 09:35:53 AM CDT from "Yaron"
>       <tclug at freakzilla.com> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Software RAID
>       issues...
> fstab has defaults. But this is well before mounting happens. If I let
> it
> boot with the "degraded" raid, THEN it has a problem mounting, but
> that's
> not a problem, really. The problem is that when mdadm starts
> assembling
> the RAID (I think) it fails and drops me into busybox.
> 
> This happens right at the top of the kernel boot, so there's really no
> logging or any useful error reporting going on.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:
>
>       what's in fstab?? errors=remount-ro?? errors=continue??
>       nobootwait?
>
>       tho i confess i dunno if anything in fstab actually
>       affects softraid error
>       response.? i can tell you that interpretation of certain
>       fstab options
>       varies considerably amongst distros and releases..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> [IMAGE] (, 0 bytes) [View| Download]
> ?
> 
> ?
> 
> 
>



--

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 09:51:38 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:51:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210950420.5632@dragon>


On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:

> you might go looking for /etc/init/mdadm.conf or similar.

Yeah, but for what? It /looks/ fine to me... plus what in mdadm would make 
the array occasionally not work at boot-time but work just fine 100% every 
other time?



--

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Mar 21 09:53:59 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:53:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210950420.5632@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210950420.5632@dragon>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9A1nbOadKTGm3=O7Wk+id9-6dxBCjxNS0iWOQzuJ6Hx4w@mail.gmail.com>

could be that mdadm.conf ought to wait for an event it isn't waiting for
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 09:57:20 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:57:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9A1nbOadKTGm3=O7Wk+id9-6dxBCjxNS0iWOQzuJ6Hx4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210950420.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9A1nbOadKTGm3=O7Wk+id9-6dxBCjxNS0iWOQzuJ6Hx4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210956570.5632@dragon>

There are no commented out options that indicate delaying mdadm, but I 
will try and google for that.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:

> could be that mdadm.conf ought to wait for an event it isn't waiting for
> 
>



--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 10:03:24 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:03:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmgOH-TOfYBnrUgPM41fDGrusQgh1m+cXqDMfk6ojvfwRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303202108290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmgOH-TOfYBnrUgPM41fDGrusQgh1m+cXqDMfk6ojvfwRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210952450.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Jake Vath wrote:

>> or an explanation of pipes, or how to use the semi-colon on the command 
>> line, or parentheses to make subshells, but some of those are even a 
>> little advanced.
>
> Yeah, subshells and an actual explanation of pipes and how they work is
> quite advanced...

I wouldn't explain pipes much except to say that we can capture output 
instead of sending it to the screen, for example:

grep foo file | less

Then we have to do stuff like

sort file | head

The pipe is pretty central to stuff we normally do, so they need that. 
Subshell can wait, but this is the kind of thing I do a lot, when a flat 
db text file has a header line with field names:

( head -1 file ; tail -n+2 file | sort ) > outfile

That sorts the file except for the header line and preserves the header. 
We might not get to that in the first class, which is 1 hour 15 mins.


>> The biggest questions I have are about the best order to teach things 
>> in. What's best -- explain the concept of a shell, or just start typing 
>> commands?  Probably the former, then go to the kernel/shell concept, 
>> then back to commands.
>
> I think you're right.
> I'd start out with a little history on the shell, this doesn't have to be
> Bash specific.
> Just touch on the conception of, "The Shell".

I think I will do that.  "Everyone log in.  OK, now each of you is in your 
own shell..."  It sounds appealing.  "When you type a command, your shell 
interprets it and decides what to do."  Then I can talk about 
personalizing the experience for different accounts.


> Maybe mention some stuff about how a shell is a command interpreter.
> It's another layer of abstraction between the operating system and the user.
> Mention something to the affect of shell scripting is *really* just a way
> of gluing together system calls, tools, utilities, and other programs.
> Why do we need a shell? What you can do/should do/ should not do with the
> shell.
> Mention shell limitations.
>
> How much time do you have with these students? One day?

There will be 2.5 hours total in two classes, but almost all of this basic 
stuff needs to be in the first class, so it will be good to direct them to 
online resources.  The second class has to focus more on a particular kind 
of statistical analysis job that they will often run.  We're using Torque 
PBS, so they have to learn that, too.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 10:10:18 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:10:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO2KkYBZL=YVokiC4ukhHFY+y7wjbmY-UUNK0yZNReShqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CACEdYO2KkYBZL=YVokiC4ukhHFY+y7wjbmY-UUNK0yZNReShqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303211004480.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:

> This site is pretty cool: http://nixsrv.com/llthw

Thanks!  That is a pretty good effort.  There are things I would do 
differently, but it is giving me a lot of good ideas.


> I teach UNIX for undergrad, some like the site above if they are 
> motivated enough. Otherwise we use SDF.org for a server to connect to, 
> they have a teaching group (free) that works well for an entry level 
> course and for programming and scripting. I set the class up for BASH 
> primarily and we cover some basics for a few other shells.
>
> I recommend dividing up your teaching in segments; start with basic 
> command line directives like you mentioned (primarily navigating around 
> CLI, most people don't know how). pwd, cd (going "home"), ls, and tree, 
> are good places to start. I move on to manipulation and creation of 
> files (cat, VIM, nano, etc) as its own section, then security and FS 
> (permissions, inodes).
>
> I won't recommend the book I use as it's terrible and my hands are tied 
> with it. However I make the labs from a few different resources on my 
> own.
>
> Hope that helps,

Yes.  That helps a lot.  Thanks.

Also "tree" -- good one.

Regarding inodes -- what do you say about them?  I guess they are needed 
for understanding hard links, but anything else?  I have never taught them 
and I'm not sure that I even know what I should know about them!

Mike

From gsker at skerbitz.org  Thu Mar 21 09:41:25 2013
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:41:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210938020.26824@veeta>

The mdadm race problem has bitten me several times.
Sometimes putting timing waits helps. Sometimes referring to the
filesystem differently in the fstab helps. (/dev/sdc vs UUID=)
Sometimes adding a bootwait option helps.

Search for mdadm and race.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:

> They get MOUNTED after the OS boots. I think mdadm tries to start the array 
> up well before that, for some reason it fails and dumps me into busybox. I'm 
> not entirely sure what exactly is going on, really, RAID's never been my 
> thing.
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> But if it fails after the OS is done booting, why does it dump you into 
>> busybox?  I think that happened to me only when my updated kernel was not 
>> being found because it had been written to the wrong partition.  That 
>> shouldn't happen in a brand-new setup, though.  Under what conditions does 
>> busybox make an appearance?
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm not using a partition table on the RAID device at all, but that's moot 
>>> since I'm not booting off it. It gets mounted well after the OS is done 
>>> booting... but it makes the boot process hang for random reasons.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Ok, I've been running a software RAID5 on one of my older systems for a 
>>>>> while. Almost every time I reboot, it claims the RAID is degraded and 
>>>>> dumps me into busybox, where all I can really do is exit and HOME it'll 
>>>>> see the drives next time I reboot. This is solved by rebooting anywhere 
>>>>> from 2 to 20 times.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I figured it was this system or these harddrives or this SATA controller 
>>>>> or... whatever. But I just set up a brand new RAID array on a brand new 
>>>>> machine using brand-new drives and a brand-new array, etc, etc. Same 
>>>>> exact issue.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing something wrong, or what?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I don't really know anything except that the tricky part of making my 
>>>> RAID 1 work was figuring out how the boot partition is supposed to be set 
>>>> up. I didn't get that right and then after a kernel update it wouldn't 
>>>> reboot unless I went back to the earlier kernel.  That might be 
>>>> irrelevant, but judging from things I was reading on web forums and 
>>>> advice I was getting, this is a tricky issue.  With larger drives (more 
>>>> than 2.2 TB) we have to use GPT instead of MBR and then all kinds of 
>>>> little annoyances come along. Are you using GPT?
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 10:32:37 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:32:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSolaris
Message-ID: <CABWFOju88MQNk=ZL+y=A9=xT_C9fShZT-Thr6w8qSm2jqwOPHQ@mail.gmail.com>

The pro-Solaris guy, Ian Collins, has replied ...

> Dtrace is a better system performance evaluation tool, and that's
> about the only thing that *Solaris has 'better' than Linux at this
> point.  The Sun^WOracle Studio C/C++ compilers runs just fine under
> Linux as well, if you need second set of diagnostics (it usually helps
> to keep code clean and portable).

DTrace can make a big difference and is one of the main reasons we (my
clients and I) use Solaris bases OSs.  Being able to probe a running
application without having to restart or mess about with logging levels
is a huge win.  It also helps keep the source free of messy logging
code.  An excellent real world example is PostgeSQL:

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/DTrace

> OpenSolaris is slowly becoming like MacOS - it only runs on certain
> hardware configurations.  The 'uber' UNIX hackers at Sun wanted to
> keep all the goodness for themselves... now, they can have it, since
> nobody else can run it, should they want to.  The *BSDs have much
> better hardware support.

It runs on just about anything modern and I always fit a decent NIC if
the motherboard has a grotty one...
-------------------------------------------------------------

That's the end of Ian's reply.  While I'm here, a reminder to
be careful while driving when the sun is close to the horizon.
I heard of two accidents this morning in this area that both
were in the eastbound traffic and seem to be related to
impaired vision due to the sun.  I'm thankful to have not
had many accidents and hope to avoid them going forward.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises -an ounce of prevention is worth more than
a pound of cure.
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Mar 21 10:32:49 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:32:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210938020.26824@veeta>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210938020.26824@veeta>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Dixg7gwyCyWmijQwP2gyA8_Zn-N0Qx7OVBLY_eQSQ=RA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> The mdadm race problem has bitten me several times.
> Sometimes putting timing waits helps. Sometimes referring to the
> filesystem differently in the fstab helps. (/dev/sdc vs UUID=)
> Sometimes adding a bootwait option helps.
>

sometimes a different distro helps :)
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From tclug at beitsahour.net  Thu Mar 21 10:28:52 2013
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:28:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210956570.5632@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210950420.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9A1nbOadKTGm3=O7Wk+id9-6dxBCjxNS0iWOQzuJ6Hx4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210956570.5632@dragon>
Message-ID: <CAMg8xat+AaKgXb_fEjCdt8NnBeBgC-01DLyCk5FVDY0CTA3P_A@mail.gmail.com>

on modern systems there is little need for an mdadm.conf to configure the
array.

a couple of things to look for,
if you are using linux-md/partitions, are the partitions marked linux raid
autodetect? if not, then you may want to so that you do so that the linux
kernel can build the array automatically.(note that do not below, but i
also have an entry in mdadm.conf)
ARRAY /dev/md/datastore metadata=1.2
UUID=ce33ff1a:82c18dff:ef8d5149:60e9281e name=snakeman:datastore

you can get the UUID from the mdadm command below

also, what is the md version that you are using? you can use mdadm --detail
to find out:
$ sudo /sbin/mdadm --detail /dev/md127
/dev/md127:
        Version : 1.2
  Creation Time : Sat May 26 17:55:25 2012
     Raid Level : raid5
     Array Size : 5128012288 (4890.45 GiB 5251.08 GB)
  Used Dev Size : 732573184 (698.64 GiB 750.15 GB)
   Raid Devices : 8
  Total Devices : 8
    Persistence : Superblock is persistent

    Update Time : Thu Mar 21 10:23:59 2013
          State : clean
 Active Devices : 8
Working Devices : 8
 Failed Devices : 0
  Spare Devices : 0

         Layout : left-symmetric
     Chunk Size : 512K

           Name : snakeman:datastore  (local to host snakeman)
           UUID : ce33ff1a:82c18dff:ef8d5149:60e9281e
         Events : 2114

    Number   Major   Minor   RaidDevice State
       0       8        0        0      active sync   /dev/sda
       1       8       16        1      active sync   /dev/sdb
       2       8       32        2      active sync   /dev/sdc
       3       8       48        3      active sync   /dev/sdd
       4       8       64        4      active sync   /dev/sde
       5       8       80        5      active sync   /dev/sdf
       9       8       96        6      active sync   /dev/sdg
       8       8      112        7      active sync   /dev/sdh

also, does the array finish building before you reboot? /proc/mdstat should
show you the status of the rebuild, do not power down the system before it
has finished rebuilding.

finally, check the smart status on the drives, it could be that one of the
drives is failing without you even knowing it, check with smartctl -a
/dev/sdX, maybe run a long scan on each drive in turn: smartctl -t long
/dev/sdX



On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> There are no commented out options that indicate delaying mdadm, but I
> will try and google for that.
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:
>
>  could be that mdadm.conf ought to wait for an event it isn't waiting for
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 10:50:44 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:50:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAMg8xat+AaKgXb_fEjCdt8NnBeBgC-01DLyCk5FVDY0CTA3P_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210950420.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9A1nbOadKTGm3=O7Wk+id9-6dxBCjxNS0iWOQzuJ6Hx4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210956570.5632@dragon>
	<CAMg8xat+AaKgXb_fEjCdt8NnBeBgC-01DLyCk5FVDY0CTA3P_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303211049560.5632@dragon>

Thanks Munir, lots of useful info.

This is mdadm 1.2, and the RAID /is/ rebuilding (or, well, 
initial-building). I'll try to let it do that before I reboot for more 
testing. Only 600 minutes to go...

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Munir Nassar wrote:

> on modern systems there is little need for an mdadm.conf to configure the
> array.
> a couple of things to look for,
> if you are using linux-md/partitions, are the partitions marked linux raid
> autodetect? if not, then you may want to so that you do so that the linux
> kernel can build the array automatically.(note that do not below, but i also
> have an entry in mdadm.conf)?
> ARRAY /dev/md/datastore metadata=1.2
> UUID=ce33ff1a:82c18dff:ef8d5149:60e9281e name=snakeman:datastore
> 
> you can get the UUID from the mdadm command below
> 
> also, what is the md version that you are using? you can use mdadm --detail
> to find out:
> $ sudo /sbin/mdadm --detail /dev/md127
> /dev/md127:
> ? ? ? ? Version : 1.2
> ? Creation Time : Sat May 26 17:55:25 2012
> ? ? ?Raid Level : raid5
> ? ? ?Array Size : 5128012288 (4890.45 GiB 5251.08 GB)
> ? Used Dev Size : 732573184 (698.64 GiB 750.15 GB)
> ? ?Raid Devices : 8
> ? Total Devices : 8
> ? ? Persistence : Superblock is persistent
> 
> ? ? Update Time : Thu Mar 21 10:23:59 2013
> ? ? ? ? ? State : clean
> ?Active Devices : 8
> Working Devices : 8
> ?Failed Devices : 0
> ? Spare Devices : 0
> 
> ? ? ? ? ?Layout : left-symmetric
> ? ? ?Chunk Size : 512K
> 
> ? ? ? ? ? ?Name : snakeman:datastore ?(local to host snakeman)
> ? ? ? ? ? ?UUID : ce33ff1a:82c18dff:ef8d5149:60e9281e
> ? ? ? ? ?Events : 2114
> 
> ? ? Number ? Major ? Minor ? RaidDevice State
> ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ? ?0 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sda
> ? ? ? ?1 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ? 16 ? ? ? ?1 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sdb
> ? ? ? ?2 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ? 32 ? ? ? ?2 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sdc
> ? ? ? ?3 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ? 48 ? ? ? ?3 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sdd
> ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ? 64 ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sde
> ? ? ? ?5 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ? 80 ? ? ? ?5 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sdf
> ? ? ? ?9 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ? 96 ? ? ? ?6 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sdg
> ? ? ? ?8 ? ? ? 8 ? ? ?112 ? ? ? ?7 ? ? ?active sync ? /dev/sdh
> 
> also, does the array finish building before you reboot? /proc/mdstat should
> show you the status of the rebuild, do not power down the system before it
> has finished rebuilding.
> 
> finally, check the smart status on the drives, it could be that one of the
> drives is failing without you even knowing it, check with smartctl -a
> /dev/sdX, maybe run a long scan on each drive in turn: smartctl -t long
> /dev/sdX
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>       There are no commented out options that indicate delaying mdadm,
>       but I will try and google for that.
>
>       On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:
>
>       could be that mdadm.conf ought to wait for an event it
>       isn't waiting for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
>



--

From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 12:28:47 2013
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:28:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CAMg8xat+AaKgXb_fEjCdt8NnBeBgC-01DLyCk5FVDY0CTA3P_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210913121.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210919280.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9Dsa94UUu6zWE-EnfT6AdLcUcXETFv0F4VjkSqYVg_uPg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9BOCJJpG0TfE232SZstfWCUBp4ReAv_au7_GMfabgypgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9CMGWwPDxzc-JfcPQxNGPhW2sAV5QgZGn=Nu3LJcmgbjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210950420.5632@dragon>
	<CAD+dB9A1nbOadKTGm3=O7Wk+id9-6dxBCjxNS0iWOQzuJ6Hx4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210956570.5632@dragon>
	<CAMg8xat+AaKgXb_fEjCdt8NnBeBgC-01DLyCk5FVDY0CTA3P_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38AA04AC-C31A-4B39-9107-EA3CE34F564B@gmail.com>

+1 on Munir's comprehensive answer. 

I'd also advocate using UUID references rather than /dev/sdX for portability. 

It sounds like you might have a failing drive. If the motor is having issues spinning the drive up in time or, less commonly, keeping it going, then the drive won't respond to the kernel's raid probing in time and the result will match the symptoms you're reporting. (There are other causes, though. One of my PCIe SATA controller cards times out with two drives attached; it is reliably fine with one drive. )

Thomas



On Mar 21, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Munir Nassar <tclug at beitsahour.net> wrote:

> on modern systems there is little need for an mdadm.conf to configure the array.
> 
> a couple of things to look for,
> if you are using linux-md/partitions, are the partitions marked linux raid autodetect? if not, then you may want to so that you do so that the linux kernel can build the array automatically.(note that do not below, but i also have an entry in mdadm.conf) 
> ARRAY /dev/md/datastore metadata=1.2 UUID=ce33ff1a:82c18dff:ef8d5149:60e9281e name=snakeman:datastore
> 
> you can get the UUID from the mdadm command below
> 
> also, what is the md version that you are using? you can use mdadm --detail to find out:
> $ sudo /sbin/mdadm --detail /dev/md127
> /dev/md127:
>         Version : 1.2
>   Creation Time : Sat May 26 17:55:25 2012
>      Raid Level : raid5
>      Array Size : 5128012288 (4890.45 GiB 5251.08 GB)
>   Used Dev Size : 732573184 (698.64 GiB 750.15 GB)
>    Raid Devices : 8
>   Total Devices : 8
>     Persistence : Superblock is persistent
> 
>     Update Time : Thu Mar 21 10:23:59 2013
>           State : clean
>  Active Devices : 8
> Working Devices : 8
>  Failed Devices : 0
>   Spare Devices : 0
> 
>          Layout : left-symmetric
>      Chunk Size : 512K
> 
>            Name : snakeman:datastore  (local to host snakeman)
>            UUID : ce33ff1a:82c18dff:ef8d5149:60e9281e
>          Events : 2114
> 
>     Number   Major   Minor   RaidDevice State
>        0       8        0        0      active sync   /dev/sda
>        1       8       16        1      active sync   /dev/sdb
>        2       8       32        2      active sync   /dev/sdc
>        3       8       48        3      active sync   /dev/sdd
>        4       8       64        4      active sync   /dev/sde
>        5       8       80        5      active sync   /dev/sdf
>        9       8       96        6      active sync   /dev/sdg
>        8       8      112        7      active sync   /dev/sdh
> 
> also, does the array finish building before you reboot? /proc/mdstat should show you the status of the rebuild, do not power down the system before it has finished rebuilding.
> 
> finally, check the smart status on the drives, it could be that one of the drives is failing without you even knowing it, check with smartctl -a /dev/sdX, maybe run a long scan on each drive in turn: smartctl -t long /dev/sdX
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>> There are no commented out options that indicate delaying mdadm, but I will try and google for that.
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, gregrwm wrote:
>> 
>>> could be that mdadm.conf ought to wait for an event it isn't waiting for
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Wed Mar 20 20:39:16 2013
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 20:39:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OpenSolaris
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOju2Boc3N2DYKrNbjnRDHfsM-KJ5ARYF_Mmk=EA-WcKdRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOju2Boc3N2DYKrNbjnRDHfsM-KJ5ARYF_Mmk=EA-WcKdRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514A64C4.6030408@kateley.com>

I use openindiana. It is open. Illumos is it's open code base.

linda

On 3/20/13 11:27 AM, Brian Wood wrote:
> Is anyone using OpenSolaris?  I know Oracle closed Solaris
> development, but there are derivatives of OpenSolaris.  I'm using
> Arch Linux, but am thinking about the following comments from
> a C++ newsgroup.  I'm thinking that eventually I may use Solaris
> from Oracle so using OpenSolaris before that might be a good idea.
> Tia.
>
>>>>> One thing about Unix, especially modern Linux distros, is that it has
>>>>> been kind of designed for development, unlike Windows, which has been
>>>>> designed as a graphical user interface, with little regard to anything
>>>>> else.
>>>> That comment shouldn't be specific to Linux, most modern UNIX systems
>>>> are equally, if not more, developer friendly.
>>> Apart from the *BSDs, not in the sense that JN meant.  Are there
>>> really any left, anyway?
>> In my opinion Solaris (and the numerous OpenSolaris derivatives) have
>> better developer tools than Linux, especially for analysing applications
>> (and the OS) in a production0n environment.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From hick0088 at umn.edu  Thu Mar 21 09:13:56 2013
From: hick0088 at umn.edu (Mike Hicks)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:13:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
Message-ID: <CALtVMsE9a-9U1iNZyePQS0RRcPjQd6sVicyyidCLKtimfdz0VQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is your /etc/mdadm.conf file up to date? There should be an "ARRAY" line in
there with the correct UUID for your RAID set.  It might also be pointing
at devices that have been renamed or be excluding devices that should be
used.

-- 
Mike Hicks | hick0088 at umn.edu | Saint Paul, MN


On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> I'm not using a partition table on the RAID device at all, but that's moot
> since I'm not booting off it. It gets mounted well after the OS is done
> booting... but it makes the boot process hang for random reasons.
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>  On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>>
>>  Ok, I've been running a software RAID5 on one of my older systems for a
>>> while. Almost every time I reboot, it claims the RAID is degraded and dumps
>>> me into busybox, where all I can really do is exit and HOME it'll see the
>>> drives next time I reboot. This is solved by rebooting anywhere from 2 to
>>> 20 times.
>>>
>>> I figured it was this system or these harddrives or this SATA controller
>>> or... whatever. But I just set up a brand new RAID array on a brand new
>>> machine using brand-new drives and a brand-new array, etc, etc. Same exact
>>> issue.
>>>
>>> Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing something wrong, or what?
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't really know anything except that the tricky part of making my
>> RAID 1 work was figuring out how the boot partition is supposed to be set
>> up. I didn't get that right and then after a kernel update it wouldn't
>> reboot unless I went back to the earlier kernel.  That might be irrelevant,
>> but judging from things I was reading on web forums and advice I was
>> getting, this is a tricky issue.  With larger drives (more than 2.2 TB) we
>> have to use GPT instead of MBR and then all kinds of little annoyances come
>> along. Are you using GPT?
>>
>> Mike
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From jeremy at lizakowski.com  Thu Mar 21 10:48:19 2013
From: jeremy at lizakowski.com (=?utf-8?B?amVyZW15QGxpemFrb3dza2kuY29t?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:48:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]
 =?utf-8?q?teaching_Linux/Bash_to_new_users_-_recomme?=
 =?utf-8?q?ndations=3F?=
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1363887481.1480.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>


Isn't the Internet is built out of a series of pipes?

----- Reply message -----
From: "Mike Miller" <mbmiller+l at gmail.com>
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
Date: Thu, Mar 21, 2013 10:03 am


On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Jake Vath wrote:

>> or an explanation of pipes, or how to use the semi-colon on the command 
>> line, or parentheses to make subshells, but some of those are even a 
>> little advanced.
>
> Yeah, subshells and an actual explanation of pipes and how they work is
> quite advanced...

I wouldn't explain pipes much except to say that we can capture output 
instead of sending it to the screen, for example:

grep foo file | less

Then we have to do stuff like

sort file | head

The pipe is pretty central to stuff we normally do, so they need that. 
Subshell can wait, but this is the kind of thing I do a lot, when a flat 
db text file has a header line with field names:

( head -1 file ; tail -n+2 file | sort ) > outfile

That sorts the file except for the header line and preserves the header. 
We might not get to that in the first class, which is 1 hour 15 mins.


>> The biggest questions I have are about the best order to teach things 
>> in. What's best -- explain the concept of a shell, or just start typing 
>> commands?  Probably the former, then go to the kernel/shell concept, 
>> then back to commands.
>
> I think you're right.
> I'd start out with a little history on the shell, this doesn't have to be
> Bash specific.
> Just touch on the conception of, "The Shell".

I think I will do that.  "Everyone log in.  OK, now each of you is in your 
own shell..."  It sounds appealing.  "When you type a command, your shell 
interprets it and decides what to do."  Then I can talk about 
personalizing the experience for different accounts.


> Maybe mention some stuff about how a shell is a command interpreter.
> It's another layer of abstraction between the operating system and the user.
> Mention something to the affect of shell scripting is *really* just a way
> of gluing together system calls, tools, utilities, and other programs.
> Why do we need a shell? What you can do/should do/ should not do with the
> shell.
> Mention shell limitations.
>
> How much time do you have with these students? One day?

There will be 2.5 hours total in two classes, but almost all of this basic 
stuff needs to be in the first class, so it will be good to direct them to 
online resources.  The second class has to focus more on a particular kind 
of statistical analysis job that they will often run.  We're using Torque 
PBS, so they have to learn that, too.

Mike
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 12:41:46 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:41:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <CALtVMsE9a-9U1iNZyePQS0RRcPjQd6sVicyyidCLKtimfdz0VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<CALtVMsE9a-9U1iNZyePQS0RRcPjQd6sVicyyidCLKtimfdz0VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303211240120.5632@dragon>

this is a brand new setup - brand new machine, brand new OS install, brand 
new RAID array and drives, so nothing can really be out of date (: 
mdadm.conf does not have an "ARRAY" line, but from what I've heard it 
doesn't need to have one.

Like I said, you reboot enough times and it works fine. I really think 
it's some kind of timing issue. I do hear the drives spin up and the 
correct LEDs on the array box DO light up. I'm not seeing any error 
messages, nor do I know where to look for them, is the problem.


On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Hicks wrote:

> Is your /etc/mdadm.conf file up to date? There should be an "ARRAY" line in
> there with the correct UUID for your RAID set.? It might also be pointing at
> devices that have been renamed or be excluding devices that should be used.
> 
> --
> Mike Hicks | hick0088 at umn.edu | Saint Paul, MN
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>       I'm not using a partition table on the RAID device at all, but
>       that's moot since I'm not booting off it. It gets mounted well
>       after the OS is done booting... but it makes the boot process
>       hang for random reasons.
>
>       On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>             On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>
>                   Ok, I've been running a software RAID5
>                   on one of my older systems for a while.
>                   Almost every time I reboot, it claims
>                   the RAID is degraded and dumps me into
>                   busybox, where all I can really do is
>                   exit and HOME it'll see the drives next
>                   time I reboot. This is solved by
>                   rebooting anywhere from 2 to 20 times.
>
>                   I figured it was this system or these
>                   harddrives or this SATA controller or...
>                   whatever. But I just set up a brand new
>                   RAID array on a brand new machine using
>                   brand-new drives and a brand-new array,
>                   etc, etc. Same exact issue.
>
>                   Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing
>                   something wrong, or what?
> 
> 
>
>             I don't really know anything except that the tricky
>             part of making my RAID 1 work was figuring out how
>             the boot partition is supposed to be set up. I
>             didn't get that right and then after a kernel update
>             it wouldn't reboot unless I went back to the earlier
>             kernel. ?That might be irrelevant, but judging from
>             things I was reading on web forums and advice I was
>             getting, this is a tricky issue. ?With larger drives
>             (more than 2.2 TB) we have to use GPT instead of MBR
>             and then all kinds of little annoyances come along.
>             Are you using GPT?
>
>             Mike
>             _______________________________________________
>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
>



--

From jake.vath at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 12:42:34 2013
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:42:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210952450.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303202108290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmgOH-TOfYBnrUgPM41fDGrusQgh1m+cXqDMfk6ojvfwRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210952450.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmgYC7q5LxjTE2xn79DXCF+EHiEp67fJrYmnMpnvynMq9A@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I wouldn't explain pipes much except to say that we can capture output
> instead of sending it to the screen, for example:
>
> grep foo file | less
>
> Then we have to do stuff like
>
> sort file | head
>
Ohh, that makes sense.

The pipe is pretty central to stuff we normally do, so they need that.
> Subshell can wait, but this is the kind of thing I do a lot, when a flat db
> text file has a header line with field names:
>
> ( head -1 file ; tail -n+2 file | sort ) > outfile
>
That sorts the file except for the header line and preserves the header.
>
I think that might be a good way to approach something like this, at least
for the non-superuser type people.
I mean, people who want the functionality, but lack the background
experience/knowledge.
Learning out of necessity is great to learn(sometimes).

It might help to present a problem, find a solution, prove the solution
does *exactly* what you want it to do, and in the end explain why the
solution works.

We're using Torque PBS, so they have to learn that, too.
>
That's pretty neat. What are you guys doing with Tourque?

-> Jake

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Jake Vath wrote:
>
>  or an explanation of pipes, or how to use the semi-colon on the command
>>> line, or parentheses to make subshells, but some of those are even a little
>>> advanced.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, subshells and an actual explanation of pipes and how they work is
>> quite advanced...
>>
>
> I wouldn't explain pipes much except to say that we can capture output
> instead of sending it to the screen, for example:
>
> grep foo file | less
>
> Then we have to do stuff like
>
> sort file | head
>
> The pipe is pretty central to stuff we normally do, so they need that.
> Subshell can wait, but this is the kind of thing I do a lot, when a flat db
> text file has a header line with field names:
>
> ( head -1 file ; tail -n+2 file | sort ) > outfile
>
> That sorts the file except for the header line and preserves the header.
> We might not get to that in the first class, which is 1 hour 15 mins.
>
>
>
>  The biggest questions I have are about the best order to teach things in.
>>> What's best -- explain the concept of a shell, or just start typing
>>> commands?  Probably the former, then go to the kernel/shell concept, then
>>> back to commands.
>>>
>>
>> I think you're right.
>> I'd start out with a little history on the shell, this doesn't have to be
>> Bash specific.
>> Just touch on the conception of, "The Shell".
>>
>
> I think I will do that.  "Everyone log in.  OK, now each of you is in your
> own shell..."  It sounds appealing.  "When you type a command, your shell
> interprets it and decides what to do."  Then I can talk about personalizing
> the experience for different accounts.
>
>
>  Maybe mention some stuff about how a shell is a command interpreter.
>> It's another layer of abstraction between the operating system and the
>> user.
>> Mention something to the affect of shell scripting is *really* just a way
>>
>> of gluing together system calls, tools, utilities, and other programs.
>> Why do we need a shell? What you can do/should do/ should not do with the
>> shell.
>> Mention shell limitations.
>>
>> How much time do you have with these students? One day?
>>
>
> There will be 2.5 hours total in two classes, but almost all of this basic
> stuff needs to be in the first class, so it will be good to direct them to
> online resources.  The second class has to focus more on a particular kind
> of statistical analysis job that they will often run.  We're using Torque
> PBS, so they have to learn that, too.
>
> Mike
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From kelly.black at penguinpackets.com  Thu Mar 21 12:48:35 2013
From: kelly.black at penguinpackets.com (kelly)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:48:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<CALtVMsE9a-9U1iNZyePQS0RRcPjQd6sVicyyidCLKtimfdz0VQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303211240120.5632@dragon>
Message-ID: <514B47F3-000582D0@penguinpackets.com>

Just a swag:?Is the power supply up to the task? ?I have had a marginal
power supply have difficulty spinning up multiple drives on occasion (i.e.
boots fail sometimes). ?Might be a quick check if you have another to swap
in to test.  

Kelly  
>  Thu Mar 21 2013 12:41:46 PM CDT from "Yaron" <tclug at freakzilla.com> 
>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
>
>  this is a brand new setup - brand new machine, brand new OS install, brand
>
> new RAID array and drives, so nothing can really be out of date (: 
> mdadm.conf does not have an "ARRAY" line, but from what I've heard it 
> doesn't need to have one.
> 
> Like I said, you reboot enough times and it works fine. I really think 
> it's some kind of timing issue. I do hear the drives spin up and the 
> correct LEDs on the array box DO light up. I'm not seeing any error 
> messages, nor do I know where to look for them, is the problem.
> 
> 
>
>
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From tclug at beitsahour.net  Thu Mar 21 13:58:20 2013
From: tclug at beitsahour.net (Munir Nassar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 13:58:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303211240120.5632@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<CALtVMsE9a-9U1iNZyePQS0RRcPjQd6sVicyyidCLKtimfdz0VQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303211240120.5632@dragon>
Message-ID: <CAMg8xatmq=HPgn1_L3PoFBPT9viN+LVR15=DWGhHp-PLJP_jXw@mail.gmail.com>

If you suspect a timing issue then add the ARRAY line, it might not be
waiting long enough to for all the drives to become visible before it tried
to assemble the array. and be sure to update your initrd so that your
initrd has the new mdadm.conf as well.


On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> this is a brand new setup - brand new machine, brand new OS install, brand
> new RAID array and drives, so nothing can really be out of date (:
> mdadm.conf does not have an "ARRAY" line, but from what I've heard it
> doesn't need to have one.
>
> Like I said, you reboot enough times and it works fine. I really think
> it's some kind of timing issue. I do hear the drives spin up and the
> correct LEDs on the array box DO light up. I'm not seeing any error
> messages, nor do I know where to look for them, is the problem.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Hicks wrote:
>
>  Is your /etc/mdadm.conf file up to date? There should be an "ARRAY" line
>> in
>> there with the correct UUID for your RAID set.  It might also be pointing
>> at
>> devices that have been renamed or be excluding devices that should be
>> used.
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hicks | hick0088 at umn.edu | Saint Paul, MN
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>       I'm not using a partition table on the RAID device at all, but
>>       that's moot since I'm not booting off it. It gets mounted well
>>       after the OS is done booting... but it makes the boot process
>>       hang for random reasons.
>>
>>       On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Mike Miller wrote:
>>
>>             On Wed, 20 Mar 2013, Yaron wrote:
>>
>>                   Ok, I've been running a software RAID5
>>                   on one of my older systems for a while.
>>                   Almost every time I reboot, it claims
>>                   the RAID is degraded and dumps me into
>>                   busybox, where all I can really do is
>>                   exit and HOME it'll see the drives next
>>                   time I reboot. This is solved by
>>                   rebooting anywhere from 2 to 20 times.
>>
>>                   I figured it was this system or these
>>                   harddrives or this SATA controller or...
>>                   whatever. But I just set up a brand new
>>                   RAID array on a brand new machine using
>>                   brand-new drives and a brand-new array,
>>                   etc, etc. Same exact issue.
>>
>>                   Anyone have ANY idea if this is ME doing
>>                   something wrong, or what?
>>
>>
>>
>>             I don't really know anything except that the tricky
>>             part of making my RAID 1 work was figuring out how
>>             the boot partition is supposed to be set up. I
>>             didn't get that right and then after a kernel update
>>             it wouldn't reboot unless I went back to the earlier
>>             kernel.  That might be irrelevant, but judging from
>>             things I was reading on web forums and advice I was
>>             getting, this is a tricky issue.  With larger drives
>>             (more than 2.2 TB) we have to use GPT instead of MBR
>>             and then all kinds of little annoyances come along.
>>             Are you using GPT?
>>
>>             Mike
>>             ______________________________**_________________
>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Mar 21 14:10:55 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 14:10:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Software RAID issues...
In-Reply-To: <514B47F3-000582D0@penguinpackets.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303202333470.4215@dragon>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210009120.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303210818250.4215@dragon>
	<CALtVMsE9a-9U1iNZyePQS0RRcPjQd6sVicyyidCLKtimfdz0VQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303211240120.5632@dragon>
	<514B47F3-000582D0@penguinpackets.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303211410001.6215@dragon>

It's a dedicated RAID array box, also known as a SATA multiplier really.

Let me put it this way - had no problems at all mkfs/badblocking all the 
drives, so I doubt it. I'm seeing no errors during run, and I do hear them 
all spin up and all te LEDs light up when they're supposed to.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, kelly wrote:

> 
> Just a swag:?Is the power supply up to the task? ?I have had a marginal
> power supply have difficulty spinning up multiple drives on occasion (i.e.
> boots fail sometimes). ?Might be a quick check if you have another to swap
> in to test.
> 
> Kelly
>
>       Thu Mar 21 2013 12:41:46 PM CDT from "Yaron"
>       <tclug at freakzilla.com> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Software RAID
>       issues...
> this is a brand new setup - brand new machine, brand new OS install,
> brand
> new RAID array and drives, so nothing can really be out of date (:
> mdadm.conf does not have an "ARRAY" line, but from what I've heard it
> doesn't need to have one.
> 
> Like I said, you reboot enough times and it works fine. I really think
> it's some kind of timing issue. I do hear the drives spin up and the
> correct LEDs on the array box DO light up. I'm not seeing any error
> messages, nor do I know where to look for them, is the problem.
> 
> 
>



--

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 23:49:44 2013
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:49:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <CAMeWMmgYC7q5LxjTE2xn79DXCF+EHiEp67fJrYmnMpnvynMq9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303202108290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmgOH-TOfYBnrUgPM41fDGrusQgh1m+cXqDMfk6ojvfwRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210952450.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmgYC7q5LxjTE2xn79DXCF+EHiEp67fJrYmnMpnvynMq9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303212343200.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Jake Vath wrote:

> That's pretty neat. What are you guys doing with Tourque?

Most of what we do is a bunch of simple association tests of hundreds of 
thousands of millions of genetic markers with some trait in around 7,000 
subjects.  Every job will do something like 5,000 of the tests and make 
some output, then we combine the output files into one file when all the 
jobs have finished.  We have ten 12-core compute nodes, so 120 corse, with 
32 GB RAM per node we can access 2.5 GB per core and run 120 jobs at once. 
So using the Torque PBS (free software, I believe) on the CentOS system 
with Rocks, we'll launch hundreds of jobs at once and they'll use all 120 
cores until they're all done.

Most of the work is done in R.

Mike

From jake.vath at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 08:09:02 2013
From: jake.vath at gmail.com (Jake Vath)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:09:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303212343200.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmjSO-ZXz2U18YECYXGj8KLbPcpYGp_PtDHEwBJbXDLTxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303202108290.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmgOH-TOfYBnrUgPM41fDGrusQgh1m+cXqDMfk6ojvfwRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303210952450.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CAMeWMmgYC7q5LxjTE2xn79DXCF+EHiEp67fJrYmnMpnvynMq9A@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303212343200.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAMeWMmh26eWzkVTA=QMCA2q5HMo4sp5OAxyNQxnzPMwaYmoDSw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Most of what we do is a bunch of simple association tests of hundreds of
> thousands of millions of genetic markers with some trait in around 7,000
> subjects.  Every job will do something like 5,000 of the tests and make
> some output, then we combine the output files into one file when all the
> jobs have finished.  We have ten 12-core compute nodes, so 120 corse, with
> 32 GB RAM per node we can access 2.5 GB per core and run 120 jobs at once.
> So using the Torque PBS (free software, I believe) on the CentOS system
> with Rocks, we'll launch hundreds of jobs at once and they'll use all 120
> cores until they're all done.
> Most of the work is done in R.

That sounds like a lot of fun!
More fun than what I'm doing now, at least.
I've always wanted to try writing some R.

It's a bit off topic, sorry.

-> Jake

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Jake Vath wrote:
>
>  That's pretty neat. What are you guys doing with Tourque?
>>
>
> Most of what we do is a bunch of simple association tests of hundreds of
> thousands of millions of genetic markers with some trait in around 7,000
> subjects.  Every job will do something like 5,000 of the tests and make
> some output, then we combine the output files into one file when all the
> jobs have finished.  We have ten 12-core compute nodes, so 120 corse, with
> 32 GB RAM per node we can access 2.5 GB per core and run 120 jobs at once.
> So using the Torque PBS (free software, I believe) on the CentOS system
> with Rocks, we'll launch hundreds of jobs at once and they'll use all 120
> cores until they're all done.
>
> Most of the work is done in R.
>
>
> Mike
> ______________________________**_________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/**mailman/listinfo/tclug-list<http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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From goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com  Fri Mar 22 10:02:59 2013
From: goeko at Goecke-Dolan.com (Brian)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:02:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] *Saturday* Sunfish from Joel Longanecker Penguins
 Unbound Meeting March 23rd
Message-ID: <514C72A3.9000303@Goecke-Dolan.com>

This months PenguinsUnbound.com meeting will be
Saturday March 23rd at TIES,
1667 Snelling Ave. N., St. Paul, MN 55108
from 10:00am to 12:00pm
(See the web site http://www.penguinsunbound.com for directions and more
info.)

At this months Penguins Unbound Meeting:

Joel Longanecker will talk about his project:

Sunfish is an application programming environment for communicating 
directly with the hardware from inside a Mono/CLR application intended 
for use in 'near embedded' systems.

Hope to see you there.

Thanks!

==>brian.

*** STREAMING ***
If you can't make it you can use this url to stream the meeting.
mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

You should be able to connect with either:
mplayer mms://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800
or
vlc http://rss2000.video.ties2.net:1800

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 23 14:13:41 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 14:13:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303211004480.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CACEdYO2KkYBZL=YVokiC4ukhHFY+y7wjbmY-UUNK0yZNReShqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303211004480.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO1TJDo-2iubrC0cKpa32v-=961PuePBza0xOQCNdyo=CA@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the delay in getting back, on call work duties called :-/

Your short class times make it difficult and probably not worthwhile
to get too in-depth as others have also mentioned, I might suggest
leaving inodes out. I cover file system topics as well (this is a full
semester though). You are correct- inodes are most notable for general
computing in regards to symbolic links and some differences between
how hard and soft links "link"- more advanced file system topics get
into inodes in regards to file system structure and how they can be
useful in regards to data recovery / forensics.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>
>> This site is pretty cool: http://nixsrv.com/llthw
>
>
> Thanks!  That is a pretty good effort.  There are things I would do
> differently, but it is giving me a lot of good ideas.
>
>
>
>> I teach UNIX for undergrad, some like the site above if they are motivated
>> enough. Otherwise we use SDF.org for a server to connect to, they have a
>> teaching group (free) that works well for an entry level course and for
>> programming and scripting. I set the class up for BASH primarily and we
>> cover some basics for a few other shells.
>>
>> I recommend dividing up your teaching in segments; start with basic
>> command line directives like you mentioned (primarily navigating around CLI,
>> most people don't know how). pwd, cd (going "home"), ls, and tree, are good
>> places to start. I move on to manipulation and creation of files (cat, VIM,
>> nano, etc) as its own section, then security and FS (permissions, inodes).
>>
>> I won't recommend the book I use as it's terrible and my hands are tied
>> with it. However I make the labs from a few different resources on my own.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>
>
> Yes.  That helps a lot.  Thanks.
>
> Also "tree" -- good one.
>
> Regarding inodes -- what do you say about them?  I guess they are needed for
> understanding hard links, but anything else?  I have never taught them and
> I'm not sure that I even know what I should know about them!
>
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Mar 23 16:44:27 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:44:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
Message-ID: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

I'm in need of a Linux server on a separate, primarily offline network
I have set up at a job. I was initially leaning toward Arch Linux, my
distro of many years I use for my workstations and some home servers.
BUT, I don't want to spend loads of time updating rolling updates,
monitoring security vulns and bugs, and I don't really have time to
build a server up from scratch either (relinquishing controlling /
minimalist nature to allow time saving in this case). Ideally SE or
security centric values are important.

I also need it to bring up a wireless interface (in addition to the
wired network) for Internet connectivity on occasion for updating NTP
and grabbing security updates and AV definitions. I can BASH script
and run a cron job for everything, however the wifi requires an Accept
button be pushed on a web page before access is granted every time a
connection is made to it. It's a Cisco based access point. I did a
quick search on Google and didn't find any kind of automation for
this. Worst case scenario I could do a Python script to make this
automated (hopefully, page is SSL) and kick it off from my cron job
BASH script if no one has any suggestions. On a separate note, I'll be
securing the wifi transmission as well.

The server will run services for a gigabit switch comprised of mostly
Windows 7 workstations with one Linux workstation (total of 8 ~ 10
computers). It will service anywhere from 0 - 4 users simultaneously
and run backups and database back-end for an application every so
often.

I plan to set up an OS disk and separate software RAID0 for storage.

Services to provide:
* NTP
* DNS
* SMART (monitoring disks) / mdadm (RAID mgm, monitoring)
* Syslog (for intake of switch logs)
* postgres
* SMTP server (sending alerts, notifications)
* File server (Samba, NFS)
* Comodo AV, some other home brew scripts for malware
* SSH
* X, lightweight but ready to use WM/DE like LXDE or XFCE- server will
be headless after setup
* Firewall service covering both intermittent wifi and wired networks

Long term I may add:
* HTTP (for webmin, monitorix, log reporting)
* Room to be flexible for future needs...

I've worked very little with CentOS at my last job awhile back,
however am leaning toward it as I recall liking it. Are there other
open source enterprise server distros people recommend for what I'm
trying to accomplish? If so, how come? If I go with CentOS or whatever
people recommend, are updates obtainable via command line and
automation friendly (for the script)? Will I need to re-install with
each major version? Are there gui front ends for most daemons or at
least managing daemons (I'm used to text files and systemd, but want
added convenience / time savings)?

I'm open to poking around with LiveCDs / VMs for bit, the project
isn't quick turn around or anything. Thanks for any suggestions!

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com

From jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com  Sat Mar 23 19:26:06 2013
From: jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com (Jason Hsu)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:26:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130323192606.4cbb23fb540ad4f1fae9ae5b@jasonhsu.com>

I recommend Debian Stable.  Why do I suggest Debian over other distros?
1.  Debian is more stable and reliable than other distros.
2.  Debian easier to work with.
3.  Even if you don't think Debian is inherently easier to work with than other distros, the fact remains that the larger user base makes it easier to find the help you need from discussion forums and web searches.

Why do I suggest Debian Stable over Debian Testing?
1.  Debian Stable requires much smaller and less frequent updates than Debian Testing.
2.  Debian Stable is much more stable.  You clearly indicated that you value stability over having the newest software.  (And that's a common priority for servers.)

-- 
Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Sat Mar 23 23:18:22 2013
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:18:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] teaching Linux/Bash to new users - recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO1TJDo-2iubrC0cKpa32v-=961PuePBza0xOQCNdyo=CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303201510100.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CACEdYO2KkYBZL=YVokiC4ukhHFY+y7wjbmY-UUNK0yZNReShqg@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1303211004480.27445@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
	<CACEdYO1TJDo-2iubrC0cKpa32v-=961PuePBza0xOQCNdyo=CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOZLdJUC-xwv=C_2GC5LFrGym0azgtiTOKL_MhexeT67KykQNA@mail.gmail.com>

I did an IRC class on intro command line stuff last year that may be
useful for the very beginner stuff.  The log is at
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/15/%23ubuntu-classroom.html,
starting at the 01:52 timestamp.

 - Tony

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 17:07:25 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 17:07:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <20130323192606.4cbb23fb540ad4f1fae9ae5b@jasonhsu.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130323192606.4cbb23fb540ad4f1fae9ae5b@jasonhsu.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO0EvzSeFzq1Qt-OuO8EN2-dcXbuEx61smf4_57n_zh1iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Jason, I'll take a look at an iso of Debian.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
> I recommend Debian Stable.  Why do I suggest Debian over other distros?
> 1.  Debian is more stable and reliable than other distros.
> 2.  Debian easier to work with.
> 3.  Even if you don't think Debian is inherently easier to work with than other distros, the fact remains that the larger user base makes it easier to find the help you need from discussion forums and web searches.
>
> Why do I suggest Debian Stable over Debian Testing?
> 1.  Debian Stable requires much smaller and less frequent updates than Debian Testing.
> 2.  Debian Stable is much more stable.  You clearly indicated that you value stability over having the newest software.  (And that's a common priority for servers.)
>
> --
> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 18:33:41 2013
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 18:33:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO0EvzSeFzq1Qt-OuO8EN2-dcXbuEx61smf4_57n_zh1iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130323192606.4cbb23fb540ad4f1fae9ae5b@jasonhsu.com>
	<CACEdYO0EvzSeFzq1Qt-OuO8EN2-dcXbuEx61smf4_57n_zh1iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KVmvSw58xi7CBMEHSN5OGgR=8_ZX1WkevVjcxzf3yzuqA@mail.gmail.com>

Another plus for Debian is that you can download the whole repository
as CD images for offline access with the package manager, or you can
mirror the repository to disk if you so choose.

--
Michael

On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson
<jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Jason, I'll take a look at an iso of Debian.
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com> wrote:
>> I recommend Debian Stable.  Why do I suggest Debian over other distros?
>> 1.  Debian is more stable and reliable than other distros.
>> 2.  Debian easier to work with.
>> 3.  Even if you don't think Debian is inherently easier to work with than other distros, the fact remains that the larger user base makes it easier to find the help you need from discussion forums and web searches.
>>
>> Why do I suggest Debian Stable over Debian Testing?
>> 1.  Debian Stable requires much smaller and less frequent updates than Debian Testing.
>> 2.  Debian Stable is much more stable.  You clearly indicated that you value stability over having the newest software.  (And that's a common priority for servers.)
>>
>> --
>> Jason Hsu <jhsu802701 at jasonhsu.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



-- 
Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives
Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm

From marc at e-skinner.net  Mon Mar 25 09:01:47 2013
From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:01:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <515058CB.8080004@e-skinner.net>

If you want a paid enterprise solution - I would go with Red Hat 
Enterprise Linux.  If you don't have any budget I would lean toward 
Scientific Linux as compared to CentOS.  SL is much closer to Red Hat 
than CentOS.  Plus, SL is actually funded by a number of large entities 
- like Fermi and NASA.

Good luck.


On 03/23/2013 04:44 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I'm in need of a Linux server on a separate, primarily offline network
> I have set up at a job. I was initially leaning toward Arch Linux, my
> distro of many years I use for my workstations and some home servers.
> BUT, I don't want to spend loads of time updating rolling updates,
> monitoring security vulns and bugs, and I don't really have time to
> build a server up from scratch either (relinquishing controlling /
> minimalist nature to allow time saving in this case). Ideally SE or
> security centric values are important.
>
> I also need it to bring up a wireless interface (in addition to the
> wired network) for Internet connectivity on occasion for updating NTP
> and grabbing security updates and AV definitions. I can BASH script
> and run a cron job for everything, however the wifi requires an Accept
> button be pushed on a web page before access is granted every time a
> connection is made to it. It's a Cisco based access point. I did a
> quick search on Google and didn't find any kind of automation for
> this. Worst case scenario I could do a Python script to make this
> automated (hopefully, page is SSL) and kick it off from my cron job
> BASH script if no one has any suggestions. On a separate note, I'll be
> securing the wifi transmission as well.
>
> The server will run services for a gigabit switch comprised of mostly
> Windows 7 workstations with one Linux workstation (total of 8 ~ 10
> computers). It will service anywhere from 0 - 4 users simultaneously
> and run backups and database back-end for an application every so
> often.
>
> I plan to set up an OS disk and separate software RAID0 for storage.
>
> Services to provide:
> * NTP
> * DNS
> * SMART (monitoring disks) / mdadm (RAID mgm, monitoring)
> * Syslog (for intake of switch logs)
> * postgres
> * SMTP server (sending alerts, notifications)
> * File server (Samba, NFS)
> * Comodo AV, some other home brew scripts for malware
> * SSH
> * X, lightweight but ready to use WM/DE like LXDE or XFCE- server will
> be headless after setup
> * Firewall service covering both intermittent wifi and wired networks
>
> Long term I may add:
> * HTTP (for webmin, monitorix, log reporting)
> * Room to be flexible for future needs...
>
> I've worked very little with CentOS at my last job awhile back,
> however am leaning toward it as I recall liking it. Are there other
> open source enterprise server distros people recommend for what I'm
> trying to accomplish? If so, how come? If I go with CentOS or whatever
> people recommend, are updates obtainable via command line and
> automation friendly (for the script)? Will I need to re-install with
> each major version? Are there gui front ends for most daemons or at
> least managing daemons (I'm used to text files and systemd, but want
> added convenience / time savings)?
>
> I'm open to poking around with LiveCDs / VMs for bit, the project
> isn't quick turn around or anything. Thanks for any suggestions!
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 10:50:03 2013
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:50:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: Comcast Enterprise Fiber
Message-ID: <5150722B.40705@gmail.com>

One of our data connections at work is approaching the end of its 
contract soon, and I have been researching fiber options.

I was curious if anyone has any experience with Comcast Enterprise Class 
fiber (not their cheap business class delivered via coax).

Their prices are cheap, and they include the construction costs to 
extend the fiber into our building.  This alone make it more attractive 
as I'm looking at about 8 grand to do this myself with other carriers fiber.

Does anyone out there currently have fiber with Comcast, and if so how 
does it perform?

Thanks!

Mr. B-o-B


From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 10:54:27 2013
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (Mr. B-o-B)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:54:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1303251052200.8725@alien.grunners.com>

Jeremy MountainJohnson cried from the depths of the abyss...

> I also need it to bring up a wireless interface (in addition to the
> wired network) for Internet connectivity on occasion for updating NTP
> and grabbing security updates and AV definitions. I can BASH script
> and run a cron job for everything, however the wifi requires an Accept
> button be pushed on a web page before access is granted every time a
> connection is made to it. It's a Cisco based access point. I did a
> quick search on Google and didn't find any kind of automation for
> this. Worst case scenario I could do a Python script to make this
> automated (hopefully, page is SSL) and kick it off from my cron job
> BASH script if no one has any suggestions. On a separate note, I'll be
> securing the wifi transmission as well.

This should be doable using cURL.

Mr. B-o-B








From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Mon Mar 25 11:07:04 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:07:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <515058CB.8080004@e-skinner.net>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<515058CB.8080004@e-skinner.net>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BG2LctuGQ9_BObNiuYDQiducHCwBKwnKmvMH6UsSXovw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> If you want a paid enterprise solution - I would go with Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux.  If you don't have any budget I would lean toward
> Scientific Linux as compared to CentOS.  SL is much closer to Red Hat than
> CentOS.  Plus, SL is actually funded by a number of large entities - like
> Fermi and NASA.
>

+1, SL often quicker with initial releases, centos often quicker with
routine updates, i find rhel/centos/SL to be completely compatible, i'm
happy with the stability and long support life.  packages that aren't
available from rhel, centos, or SL are usually available from either dag
(excellent maintenance), puias, remi, epel (a tad less reliable), and/or a
few others.
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From tclug-announce-bounces at mn-linux.org  Mon Mar 25 12:02:04 2013
From: tclug-announce-bounces at mn-linux.org (tclug-announce-bounces at mn-linux.org)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:02:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Forward of moderated message
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1364230924.10086.tclug-announce@mn-linux.org>

An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: "Paul W. Furr" <paul at polarsky.com>
Subject: Re: tclug-announce Digest, Vol 94, Issue 2
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 17:56:25 -0500
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URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20130325/97be3542/attachment.mht>

From droidjd at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 12:50:30 2013
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:50:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdyyR5aZxwvNZgwom_ssSohNs_HEJ4HEU+dC-6bxd3K_CQ@mail.gmail.com>

Another +1 for RHEL/SL/CentOS.
On Mar 23, 2013 4:44 PM, "Jeremy MountainJohnson" <
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm in need of a Linux server on a separate, primarily offline network
> I have set up at a job. I was initially leaning toward Arch Linux, my
> distro of many years I use for my workstations and some home servers.
> BUT, I don't want to spend loads of time updating rolling updates,
> monitoring security vulns and bugs, and I don't really have time to
> build a server up from scratch either (relinquishing controlling /
> minimalist nature to allow time saving in this case). Ideally SE or
> security centric values are important.
>
> I also need it to bring up a wireless interface (in addition to the
> wired network) for Internet connectivity on occasion for updating NTP
> and grabbing security updates and AV definitions. I can BASH script
> and run a cron job for everything, however the wifi requires an Accept
> button be pushed on a web page before access is granted every time a
> connection is made to it. It's a Cisco based access point. I did a
> quick search on Google and didn't find any kind of automation for
> this. Worst case scenario I could do a Python script to make this
> automated (hopefully, page is SSL) and kick it off from my cron job
> BASH script if no one has any suggestions. On a separate note, I'll be
> securing the wifi transmission as well.
>
> The server will run services for a gigabit switch comprised of mostly
> Windows 7 workstations with one Linux workstation (total of 8 ~ 10
> computers). It will service anywhere from 0 - 4 users simultaneously
> and run backups and database back-end for an application every so
> often.
>
> I plan to set up an OS disk and separate software RAID0 for storage.
>
> Services to provide:
> * NTP
> * DNS
> * SMART (monitoring disks) / mdadm (RAID mgm, monitoring)
> * Syslog (for intake of switch logs)
> * postgres
> * SMTP server (sending alerts, notifications)
> * File server (Samba, NFS)
> * Comodo AV, some other home brew scripts for malware
> * SSH
> * X, lightweight but ready to use WM/DE like LXDE or XFCE- server will
> be headless after setup
> * Firewall service covering both intermittent wifi and wired networks
>
> Long term I may add:
> * HTTP (for webmin, monitorix, log reporting)
> * Room to be flexible for future needs...
>
> I've worked very little with CentOS at my last job awhile back,
> however am leaning toward it as I recall liking it. Are there other
> open source enterprise server distros people recommend for what I'm
> trying to accomplish? If so, how come? If I go with CentOS or whatever
> people recommend, are updates obtainable via command line and
> automation friendly (for the script)? Will I need to re-install with
> each major version? Are there gui front ends for most daemons or at
> least managing daemons (I'm used to text files and systemd, but want
> added convenience / time savings)?
>
> I'm open to poking around with LiveCDs / VMs for bit, the project
> isn't quick turn around or anything. Thanks for any suggestions!
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Mar 25 15:51:03 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 15:51:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ALSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251546210.4215@dragon>

Ok folks, it's "Alsa Is Driving Me Crazy YET AGAIN" time.

My media center computer's SSD (which is ancient and crappy) is thinking 
about dying, and I wanted some different software on there (DOWNgrading 
MythTV to 0.24, in fact) so perfect time to throw a new drive in there 
and start from scratch since I have a backup.

Now I can't get sound to work right.

These are both Ubuntu systems, the new one is 12.10, the old one, uh. 
Probably 12.04 via updates.

I... remember going through a lot of trouble to get alsa to work correctly 
in the first place, including giving m full surround sound etc. Now the 
thing doesn't even show I have the surround channels.

Here's the thing. I copied over .asoundrc. I even copied over all of 
/usr/share/alsa from the previous installation. Still nothing. At one 
point I managed to get SOME surround sound but the channels were a mess...

Anyway, before I go looking for an alsa-list with it's crazy amount of 
unhelpful snark, I figured I'd throw it on here.

Does anyone know exactly what I need to copy from the old installation to 
make it so alsa has the exact same configuration?


TIA!



--

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 16:43:12 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:43:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ALSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251546210.4215@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251546210.4215@dragon>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO1wxkJSQGxVzBuJJzrsNvHpCFZ_=54H-E2=H5VRgvqi=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Did you also copy over /etc/asound.conf (or where ever Ubuntu stores
the global ALSA config file)?

Hate to lead you to other distro territory for this, but it could help:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Upmixing.2FDownmixing

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> Ok folks, it's "Alsa Is Driving Me Crazy YET AGAIN" time.
>
> My media center computer's SSD (which is ancient and crappy) is thinking
> about dying, and I wanted some different software on there (DOWNgrading
> MythTV to 0.24, in fact) so perfect time to throw a new drive in there and
> start from scratch since I have a backup.
>
> Now I can't get sound to work right.
>
> These are both Ubuntu systems, the new one is 12.10, the old one, uh.
> Probably 12.04 via updates.
>
> I... remember going through a lot of trouble to get alsa to work correctly
> in the first place, including giving m full surround sound etc. Now the
> thing doesn't even show I have the surround channels.
>
> Here's the thing. I copied over .asoundrc. I even copied over all of
> /usr/share/alsa from the previous installation. Still nothing. At one point
> I managed to get SOME surround sound but the channels were a mess...
>
> Anyway, before I go looking for an alsa-list with it's crazy amount of
> unhelpful snark, I figured I'd throw it on here.
>
> Does anyone know exactly what I need to copy from the old installation to
> make it so alsa has the exact same configuration?
>
>
> TIA!
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Mar 25 16:48:42 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:48:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ALSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO1wxkJSQGxVzBuJJzrsNvHpCFZ_=54H-E2=H5VRgvqi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251546210.4215@dragon>
	<CACEdYO1wxkJSQGxVzBuJJzrsNvHpCFZ_=54H-E2=H5VRgvqi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251647420.4215@dragon>

There actually isn't/wasn't an /etc/asound.conf... that was one of the 
annoying parts.

I'll have a look at that link.

I kinda wonder if maybe alsa isn't the Top Dog in sound anymore.

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:

> Did you also copy over /etc/asound.conf (or where ever Ubuntu stores
> the global ALSA config file)?
>
> Hate to lead you to other distro territory for this, but it could help:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Upmixing.2FDownmixing
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>> Ok folks, it's "Alsa Is Driving Me Crazy YET AGAIN" time.
>>
>> My media center computer's SSD (which is ancient and crappy) is thinking
>> about dying, and I wanted some different software on there (DOWNgrading
>> MythTV to 0.24, in fact) so perfect time to throw a new drive in there and
>> start from scratch since I have a backup.
>>
>> Now I can't get sound to work right.
>>
>> These are both Ubuntu systems, the new one is 12.10, the old one, uh.
>> Probably 12.04 via updates.
>>
>> I... remember going through a lot of trouble to get alsa to work correctly
>> in the first place, including giving m full surround sound etc. Now the
>> thing doesn't even show I have the surround channels.
>>
>> Here's the thing. I copied over .asoundrc. I even copied over all of
>> /usr/share/alsa from the previous installation. Still nothing. At one point
>> I managed to get SOME surround sound but the channels were a mess...
>>
>> Anyway, before I go looking for an alsa-list with it's crazy amount of
>> unhelpful snark, I figured I'd throw it on here.
>>
>> Does anyone know exactly what I need to copy from the old installation to
>> make it so alsa has the exact same configuration?
>>
>>
>> TIA!
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



--

From tlunde at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 19:10:04 2013
From: tlunde at gmail.com (Thomas Lunde)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:10:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ALSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251647420.4215@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251546210.4215@dragon>
	<CACEdYO1wxkJSQGxVzBuJJzrsNvHpCFZ_=54H-E2=H5VRgvqi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251647420.4215@dragon>
Message-ID: <8B23A03F-B9EF-4565-B6CD-E919B006316E@gmail.com>

At some point, Ubuntu threw pulseaudio in the mix (says the guy who spent an hour reconfiguring sound on 12.x after he accidentally unplugged the usb external sound card & auto-re-config broke sound). 

Good luck. Sound really should be a solved problem by now. 

Thomas


On Mar 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> There actually isn't/wasn't an /etc/asound.conf... that was one of the annoying parts.
> 
> I'll have a look at that link.
> 
> I kinda wonder if maybe alsa isn't the Top Dog in sound anymore.
> 
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
> 
>> Did you also copy over /etc/asound.conf (or where ever Ubuntu stores
>> the global ALSA config file)?
>> 
>> Hate to lead you to other distro territory for this, but it could help:
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Upmixing.2FDownmixing
>> 
>> --
>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>> Ok folks, it's "Alsa Is Driving Me Crazy YET AGAIN" time.
>>> 
>>> My media center computer's SSD (which is ancient and crappy) is thinking
>>> about dying, and I wanted some different software on there (DOWNgrading
>>> MythTV to 0.24, in fact) so perfect time to throw a new drive in there and
>>> start from scratch since I have a backup.
>>> 
>>> Now I can't get sound to work right.
>>> 
>>> These are both Ubuntu systems, the new one is 12.10, the old one, uh.
>>> Probably 12.04 via updates.
>>> 
>>> I... remember going through a lot of trouble to get alsa to work correctly
>>> in the first place, including giving m full surround sound etc. Now the
>>> thing doesn't even show I have the surround channels.
>>> 
>>> Here's the thing. I copied over .asoundrc. I even copied over all of
>>> /usr/share/alsa from the previous installation. Still nothing. At one point
>>> I managed to get SOME surround sound but the channels were a mess...
>>> 
>>> Anyway, before I go looking for an alsa-list with it's crazy amount of
>>> unhelpful snark, I figured I'd throw it on here.
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know exactly what I need to copy from the old installation to
>>> make it so alsa has the exact same configuration?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> TIA!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 19:43:34 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:43:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CAFjzMdyyR5aZxwvNZgwom_ssSohNs_HEJ4HEU+dC-6bxd3K_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFjzMdyyR5aZxwvNZgwom_ssSohNs_HEJ4HEU+dC-6bxd3K_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO0frx4C4ojQUdjCecOi+ZeHGqZjiOc_YAceTGwAaH87HQ@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome, thanks for the suggestions! I like Debian overall, however it
feels very similar to ArchLinux. I'll check out SL to compare with
CentOS. No need for Red Hat Enterprise, this project is not of that
caliber or worth the cost.

I'll also look into cURL for the web page button. Already found a
starting point:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2366549/curl-and-click-a-button-in-a-website

Thanks again,

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Andrew Dahl <droidjd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Another +1 for RHEL/SL/CentOS.
>
> On Mar 23, 2013 4:44 PM, "Jeremy MountainJohnson"
> <jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm in need of a Linux server on a separate, primarily offline network
>> I have set up at a job. I was initially leaning toward Arch Linux, my
>> distro of many years I use for my workstations and some home servers.
>> BUT, I don't want to spend loads of time updating rolling updates,
>> monitoring security vulns and bugs, and I don't really have time to
>> build a server up from scratch either (relinquishing controlling /
>> minimalist nature to allow time saving in this case). Ideally SE or
>> security centric values are important.
>>
>> I also need it to bring up a wireless interface (in addition to the
>> wired network) for Internet connectivity on occasion for updating NTP
>> and grabbing security updates and AV definitions. I can BASH script
>> and run a cron job for everything, however the wifi requires an Accept
>> button be pushed on a web page before access is granted every time a
>> connection is made to it. It's a Cisco based access point. I did a
>> quick search on Google and didn't find any kind of automation for
>> this. Worst case scenario I could do a Python script to make this
>> automated (hopefully, page is SSL) and kick it off from my cron job
>> BASH script if no one has any suggestions. On a separate note, I'll be
>> securing the wifi transmission as well.
>>
>> The server will run services for a gigabit switch comprised of mostly
>> Windows 7 workstations with one Linux workstation (total of 8 ~ 10
>> computers). It will service anywhere from 0 - 4 users simultaneously
>> and run backups and database back-end for an application every so
>> often.
>>
>> I plan to set up an OS disk and separate software RAID0 for storage.
>>
>> Services to provide:
>> * NTP
>> * DNS
>> * SMART (monitoring disks) / mdadm (RAID mgm, monitoring)
>> * Syslog (for intake of switch logs)
>> * postgres
>> * SMTP server (sending alerts, notifications)
>> * File server (Samba, NFS)
>> * Comodo AV, some other home brew scripts for malware
>> * SSH
>> * X, lightweight but ready to use WM/DE like LXDE or XFCE- server will
>> be headless after setup
>> * Firewall service covering both intermittent wifi and wired networks
>>
>> Long term I may add:
>> * HTTP (for webmin, monitorix, log reporting)
>> * Room to be flexible for future needs...
>>
>> I've worked very little with CentOS at my last job awhile back,
>> however am leaning toward it as I recall liking it. Are there other
>> open source enterprise server distros people recommend for what I'm
>> trying to accomplish? If so, how come? If I go with CentOS or whatever
>> people recommend, are updates obtainable via command line and
>> automation friendly (for the script)? Will I need to re-install with
>> each major version? Are there gui front ends for most daemons or at
>> least managing daemons (I'm used to text files and systemd, but want
>> added convenience / time savings)?
>>
>> I'm open to poking around with LiveCDs / VMs for bit, the project
>> isn't quick turn around or anything. Thanks for any suggestions!
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From nesius at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 20:05:33 2013
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:05:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO0frx4C4ojQUdjCecOi+ZeHGqZjiOc_YAceTGwAaH87HQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFjzMdyyR5aZxwvNZgwom_ssSohNs_HEJ4HEU+dC-6bxd3K_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO0frx4C4ojQUdjCecOi+ZeHGqZjiOc_YAceTGwAaH87HQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE_6JSS-81m+XLc-8_s14LTqjzaGxdGFE+yKmoZ_vdq3Hw@mail.gmail.com>

 What's wrong with Ubuntu server?

-Rob


On Monday, March 25, 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:

> Awesome, thanks for the suggestions! I like Debian overall, however it
> feels very similar to ArchLinux. I'll check out SL to compare with
> CentOS. No need for Red Hat Enterprise, this project is not of that
> caliber or worth the cost.
>
> I'll also look into cURL for the web page button. Already found a
> starting point:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2366549/curl-and-click-a-button-in-a-website
>
> Thanks again,
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com <javascript:;>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Andrew Dahl <droidjd at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Another +1 for RHEL/SL/CentOS.
> >
> > On Mar 23, 2013 4:44 PM, "Jeremy MountainJohnson"
> > <jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> I'm in need of a Linux server on a separate, primarily offline network
> >> I have set up at a job. I was initially leaning toward Arch Linux, my
> >> distro of many years I use for my workstations and some home servers.
> >> BUT, I don't want to spend loads of time updating rolling updates,
> >> monitoring security vulns and bugs, and I don't really have time to
> >> build a server up from scratch either (relinquishing controlling /
> >> minimalist nature to allow time saving in this case). Ideally SE or
> >> security centric values are important.
> >>
> >> I also need it to bring up a wireless interface (in addition to the
> >> wired network) for Internet connectivity on occasion for updating NTP
> >> and grabbing security updates and AV definitions. I can BASH script
> >> and run a cron job for everything, however the wifi requires an Accept
> >> button be pushed on a web page before access is granted every time a
> >> connection is made to it. It's a Cisco based access point. I did a
> >> quick search on Google and didn't find any kind of automation for
> >> this. Worst case scenario I could do a Python script to make this
> >> automated (hopefully, page is SSL) and kick it off from my cron job
> >> BASH script if no one has any suggestions. On a separate note, I'll be
> >> securing the wifi transmission as well.
> >>
> >> The server will run services for a gigabit switch comprised of mostly
> >> Windows 7 workstations with one Linux workstation (total of 8 ~ 10
> >> computers). It will service anywhere from 0 - 4 users simultaneously
> >> and run backups and database back-end for an application every so
> >> often.
> >>
> >> I plan to set up an OS disk and separate software RAID0 for storage.
> >>
> >> Services to provide:
> >> * NTP
> >> * DNS
> >> * SMART (monitoring disks) / mdadm (RAID mgm, monitoring)
> >> * Syslog (for intake of switch logs)
> >> * postgres
> >> * SMTP server (sending alerts, notifications)
> >> * File server (Samba, NFS)
> >> * Comodo AV, some other home brew scripts for malware
> >> * SSH
> >> * X, lightweight but ready to use WM/DE like LXDE or XFCE- server will
> >> be headless after setup
> >> * Firewall service covering both intermittent wifi and wired networks
> >>
> >> Long term I may add:
> >> * HTTP (for webmin, monitorix, log reporting)
> >> * Room to be flexible for future needs...
> >>
> >> I've worked very little with CentOS at my last job awhile back,
> >> however am leaning toward it as I recall liking it. Are there other
> >> open source enterprise server distros people recommend for what I'm
> >> trying to accomplish? If so, how come? If I go with CentOS or whatever
> >> people recommend, are updates obtainable via command line and
> >> automation friendly (for the script)? Will I need to re-install with
> >> each major version? Are there gui front ends for most daemons or at
> >> least managing daemons (I'm used to text files and systemd, but want
> >> added convenience / time savings)?
> >>
> >> I'm open to poking around with LiveCDs / VMs for bit, the project
> >> isn't quick turn around or anything. Thanks for any suggestions!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> >> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
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From escargo at skypoint.com  Mon Mar 25 19:57:27 2013
From: escargo at skypoint.com (David S. Cargo)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:57:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
Message-ID: <uas1l89dssn0tjqcfm2r8lrighqulmmuvl@4ax.com>

I want to create a sandbox system to experiment with WordPress.

I've got a still-shiny Windows 8 laptop that I have installed
VirtualBox on.

I've been experimenting with some light distros (Puppy and SLAX)
just to see how the run in the virtual environment (not so good
with Puppy, and fine, but limited with SLAX).

I also have an lubuntu 12.04 that runs fine.

I used the Synaptic package manager to download and install a bunch
of extra packages that are not part of the base install. I've got
WordPress downloaded and installed, but not yet properly configured.
(It doesn't seem to install itself "out of the box" and I still need
to figure out how to get it connected with MySQL.)

Are there better light-weight distros for this application? An easy
to install WordPress might not be possible, but I thought I would
ask.

Any favorite distros for running in VirtualBox?

Thanks.

escargo

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Mar 25 20:39:40 2013
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Yaron)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:39:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ALSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
In-Reply-To: <8B23A03F-B9EF-4565-B6CD-E919B006316E@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251546210.4215@dragon>
	<CACEdYO1wxkJSQGxVzBuJJzrsNvHpCFZ_=54H-E2=H5VRgvqi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251647420.4215@dragon>
	<8B23A03F-B9EF-4565-B6CD-E919B006316E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303252038510.17494@dragon>

Ok, don't ask me how but it's working now. I guess beating it up enough 
and publically asking for help did the trick...

That said, does anyone know if maybe Pulse is what we should all be using 
nowadays? I've kind of lost track...

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Thomas Lunde wrote:

> At some point, Ubuntu threw pulseaudio in the mix (says the guy who spent an hour reconfiguring sound on 12.x after he accidentally unplugged the usb external sound card & auto-re-config broke sound).
>
> Good luck. Sound really should be a solved problem by now.
>
> Thomas
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>
>> There actually isn't/wasn't an /etc/asound.conf... that was one of the annoying parts.
>>
>> I'll have a look at that link.
>>
>> I kinda wonder if maybe alsa isn't the Top Dog in sound anymore.
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>
>>> Did you also copy over /etc/asound.conf (or where ever Ubuntu stores
>>> the global ALSA config file)?
>>>
>>> Hate to lead you to other distro territory for this, but it could help:
>>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Upmixing.2FDownmixing
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok folks, it's "Alsa Is Driving Me Crazy YET AGAIN" time.
>>>>
>>>> My media center computer's SSD (which is ancient and crappy) is thinking
>>>> about dying, and I wanted some different software on there (DOWNgrading
>>>> MythTV to 0.24, in fact) so perfect time to throw a new drive in there and
>>>> start from scratch since I have a backup.
>>>>
>>>> Now I can't get sound to work right.
>>>>
>>>> These are both Ubuntu systems, the new one is 12.10, the old one, uh.
>>>> Probably 12.04 via updates.
>>>>
>>>> I... remember going through a lot of trouble to get alsa to work correctly
>>>> in the first place, including giving m full surround sound etc. Now the
>>>> thing doesn't even show I have the surround channels.
>>>>
>>>> Here's the thing. I copied over .asoundrc. I even copied over all of
>>>> /usr/share/alsa from the previous installation. Still nothing. At one point
>>>> I managed to get SOME surround sound but the channels were a mess...
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, before I go looking for an alsa-list with it's crazy amount of
>>>> unhelpful snark, I figured I'd throw it on here.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know exactly what I need to copy from the old installation to
>>>> make it so alsa has the exact same configuration?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TIA!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



--

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 22:29:08 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:29:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking for good distro for all in one server;
 wifi Cisco web page Accept script?
In-Reply-To: <CAOOsjE_6JSS-81m+XLc-8_s14LTqjzaGxdGFE+yKmoZ_vdq3Hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO04bCVTNp9BQcn=-9tS0R1LJhF4EJZ-eiRBrRABeFoOJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFjzMdyyR5aZxwvNZgwom_ssSohNs_HEJ4HEU+dC-6bxd3K_CQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACEdYO0frx4C4ojQUdjCecOi+ZeHGqZjiOc_YAceTGwAaH87HQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOOsjE_6JSS-81m+XLc-8_s14LTqjzaGxdGFE+yKmoZ_vdq3Hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO3VPjR_7TsbY2Ui-htT5eKK3AkwoqC-uWcMfii8DeLv6g@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed with the CentOS VM it installs and allows me to throw on a
gui with X and VNC services (all without needing a dedicated Internet
connection). Ubuntu server does not install a gui from the install
medium (so I hear?). This isn't a deal breaker, but makes it less
appealing for what I'm trying to do which is keep it mostly offline
and convenient.

A lot of tweaks I use for Arch are available for Ubuntu, which is an
added plus- not many rpm options with CentOS for some goodies I'm used
to having on the workstation (which, this is not going to be anyway).

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Robert Nesius <nesius at gmail.com> wrote:
>  What's wrong with Ubuntu server?
>
> -Rob
>
>
> On Monday, March 25, 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>
>> Awesome, thanks for the suggestions! I like Debian overall, however it
>> feels very similar to ArchLinux. I'll check out SL to compare with
>> CentOS. No need for Red Hat Enterprise, this project is not of that
>> caliber or worth the cost.
>>
>> I'll also look into cURL for the web page button. Already found a
>> starting point:
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2366549/curl-and-click-a-button-in-a-website
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Andrew Dahl <droidjd at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Another +1 for RHEL/SL/CentOS.
>> >
>> > On Mar 23, 2013 4:44 PM, "Jeremy MountainJohnson"
>> > <jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Howdy,
>> >>
>> >> I'm in need of a Linux server on a separate, primarily offline network
>> >> I have set up at a job. I was initially leaning toward Arch Linux, my
>> >> distro of many years I use for my workstations and some home servers.
>> >> BUT, I don't want to spend loads of time updating rolling updates,
>> >> monitoring security vulns and bugs, and I don't really have time to
>> >> build a server up from scratch either (relinquishing controlling /
>> >> minimalist nature to allow time saving in this case). Ideally SE or
>> >> security centric values are important.
>> >>
>> >> I also need it to bring up a wireless interface (in addition to the
>> >> wired network) for Internet connectivity on occasion for updating NTP
>> >> and grabbing security updates and AV definitions. I can BASH script
>> >> and run a cron job for everything, however the wifi requires an Accept
>> >> button be pushed on a web page before access is granted every time a
>> >> connection is made to it. It's a Cisco based access point. I did a
>> >> quick search on Google and didn't find any kind of automation for
>> >> this. Worst case scenario I could do a Python script to make this
>> >> automated (hopefully, page is SSL) and kick it off from my cron job
>> >> BASH script if no one has any suggestions. On a separate note, I'll be
>> >> securing the wifi transmission as well.
>> >>
>> >> The server will run services for a gigabit switch comprised of mostly
>> >> Windows 7 workstations with one Linux workstation (total of 8 ~ 10
>> >> computers). It will service anywhere from 0 - 4 users simultaneously
>> >> and run backups and database back-end for an application every so
>> >> often.
>> >>
>> >> I plan to set up an OS disk and separate software RAID0 for storage.
>> >>
>> >> Services to provide:
>> >> * NTP
>> >> * DNS
>> >> * SMART (monitoring disks) / mdadm (RAID mgm, monitoring)
>> >> * Syslog (for intake of switch logs)
>> >> * postgres
>> >> * SMTP server (sending alerts, notifications)
>> >> * File server (Samba, NFS)
>> >> * Comodo AV, some other home brew scripts for malware
>> >> * SSH
>> >> * X, lightweight but ready to use WM/DE like LXDE or XFCE- server will
>> >> be headless after setup
>> >> * Firewall service covering both intermittent wifi and wired networks
>> >>
>> >> Long term I may add:
>> >> * HTTP (for webmin, monitorix, log reporting)
>> >> * Room to be flexible for future needs...
>> >>
>> >> I've worked very little with CentOS at my last job awhile back,
>> >> however am leaning toward it as I recall liking it. Are there other
>> >> open source enterprise server distros people recommend for what I'm
>> >> trying to accomplish? If so, how come? If I go with CentOS or whatever
>> >> people recommend, are updates obtainable via command line and
>> >> automation friendly (for the script)? Will I need to re-install with
>> >> each major version? Are there gui front ends for most daemons or at
>> >> least managing daemons (I'm used to text files and systemd, but want
>> >> added convenience / time savings)?
>> >>
>> >> I'm open to poking around with LiveCDs / VMs for bit, the project
>> >> isn't quick turn around or anything. Thanks for any suggestions!
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>> >> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From gsker at skerbitz.org  Mon Mar 25 22:52:58 2013
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (Gerry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:52:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
In-Reply-To: <uas1l89dssn0tjqcfm2r8lrighqulmmuvl@4ax.com>
References: <uas1l89dssn0tjqcfm2r8lrighqulmmuvl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303252252410.4393@veeta>

Or you could just use an appliance:

See the second half of this page starting with
"Setting Up A Pre-Packaged WordPress Appliance"
http://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-build-a-speedy-wordpress-sandbox-vm/

Gerry
(the first part of the article looks good too...)

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, David S. Cargo wrote:

> I want to create a sandbox system to experiment with WordPress.
>
> I've got a still-shiny Windows 8 laptop that I have installed
> VirtualBox on.
>
> I've been experimenting with some light distros (Puppy and SLAX)
> just to see how the run in the virtual environment (not so good
> with Puppy, and fine, but limited with SLAX).
>
> I also have an lubuntu 12.04 that runs fine.
>
> I used the Synaptic package manager to download and install a bunch
> of extra packages that are not part of the base install. I've got
> WordPress downloaded and installed, but not yet properly configured.
> (It doesn't seem to install itself "out of the box" and I still need
> to figure out how to get it connected with MySQL.)
>
> Are there better light-weight distros for this application? An easy
> to install WordPress might not be possible, but I thought I would
> ask.
>
> Any favorite distros for running in VirtualBox?
>
> Thanks.
>
> escargo
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

-- 
Gerry Skerbitz
gsker at skerbitz.org

From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Mar 26 02:51:53 2013
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:51:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Some oldster programming fun.
Message-ID: <51515399.8060504@pinenet.com>

In case there are others out there like me, who love the old programming 
opportunities Linux offers, here are some web pages maybe worth copying 
into a text editor that provides 4 space tabs. (the 8 space tabs in the 
HTML is silly, but the tabs are worth preserving)

> http://www.sytekcom.com/eng/Freepascal_XForms_Units.html

> http://www.sytekcom.com/eng/Freepascal_XForms_Demos.html

The first set of files adapts the XForms library to FreePascal. You will 
need the XForms library and FreePascal installed, and need a file 
"cursorfont.inc" provided in the FreePascal distro source of their 
ancient XForms Unit.

The second file contains some demos. The usual buttons and menus are 
included. But the different canvas demos are interesting to me. The 
XForms library does include Image and OpenGL capability not shown.

It seems to work great on current opensuse 12.2 and freepascal 2.6.2, 
and IceWM.

I realize it isn't internet television with hi-fi stereo. But for a guy 
who grew up during tube AM radio, and learned to program with punch 
cards, this is pretty great stuff on a $100 used computer from ebay.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Mar 26 05:11:17 2013
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:11:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] yum-plugin-priorities-samerepo
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9D4_+gT4WdebEGyesYQ9H73p9_XOFx2SM+Ya8=Sg2JvKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DjGKmqUUNFtSJeWSNjj6Y83CEWPPvTegD_j8rJJ1X8ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD+dB9D4_+gT4WdebEGyesYQ9H73p9_XOFx2SM+Ya8=Sg2JvKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9C7KAiaP=heCw5X2CJHY1DdqJtOfo+buPZDM4gkDHab_Q@mail.gmail.com>

i've been using yum-plugin-priorities, which usually works, but not
always.  rank ordering repos is right for installing new packages, but for
updates, i think what i really need is to restrict updates to come from the
same repo as the installed package.  any such thing?
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From erik.mitchell at gmail.com  Tue Mar 26 06:11:01 2013
From: erik.mitchell at gmail.com (Erik Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 06:11:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
In-Reply-To: <uas1l89dssn0tjqcfm2r8lrighqulmmuvl@4ax.com>
References: <uas1l89dssn0tjqcfm2r8lrighqulmmuvl@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CANNReEH8LrOaNyVk3-AhL3igs-uAeyZF9THQjE9bcpX6V8UKHg@mail.gmail.com>

The distro shouldn't matter at all -- the only hard requirements for
Wordpress are PHP and MySQL. You can run those on Linux, Windows, Mac
OS, BSD, and probably others as well.

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:57 PM, David S. Cargo <escargo at skypoint.com> wrote:
> I want to create a sandbox system to experiment with WordPress.
>
> I've got a still-shiny Windows 8 laptop that I have installed
> VirtualBox on.
>
> I've been experimenting with some light distros (Puppy and SLAX)
> just to see how the run in the virtual environment (not so good
> with Puppy, and fine, but limited with SLAX).
>
> I also have an lubuntu 12.04 that runs fine.
>
> I used the Synaptic package manager to download and install a bunch
> of extra packages that are not part of the base install. I've got
> WordPress downloaded and installed, but not yet properly configured.
> (It doesn't seem to install itself "out of the box" and I still need
> to figure out how to get it connected with MySQL.)
>
> Are there better light-weight distros for this application? An easy
> to install WordPress might not be possible, but I thought I would
> ask.
>
> Any favorite distros for running in VirtualBox?
>
> Thanks.
>
> escargo
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Tue Mar 26 07:32:42 2013
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bXIuY2hldy5iYWthQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:32:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]
 =?utf-8?q?Wanted=3A_Good_distro_for_VirtualBox_to_ru?=
 =?utf-8?q?n_WordPress?=
Message-ID: <51519568.e1c3320a.1b4c.4fd0@mx.google.com>

Get Slackware.  Install it without X, kde, xfce, and the other guis.  Fantastic for wed dev imho.

----- Reply message -----
From: "David S. Cargo" <escargo at skypoint.com>
To: <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
Date: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 19:57


I want to create a sandbox system to experiment with WordPress.

I've got a still-shiny Windows 8 laptop that I have installed
VirtualBox on.

I've been experimenting with some light distros (Puppy and SLAX)
just to see how the run in the virtual environment (not so good
with Puppy, and fine, but limited with SLAX).

I also have an lubuntu 12.04 that runs fine.

I used the Synaptic package manager to download and install a bunch
of extra packages that are not part of the base install. I've got
WordPress downloaded and installed, but not yet properly configured.
(It doesn't seem to install itself "out of the box" and I still need
to figure out how to get it connected with MySQL.)

Are there better light-weight distros for this application? An easy
to install WordPress might not be possible, but I thought I would
ask.

Any favorite distros for running in VirtualBox?

Thanks.

escargo
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Tue Mar 26 07:38:56 2013
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bXIuY2hldy5iYWthQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:38:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]
 =?utf-8?q?Wanted=3A_Good_distro_for_VirtualBox_to_ru?=
 =?utf-8?q?n_WordPress?=
Message-ID: <515196df.e49f320a.535f.4ebf@mx.google.com>

Indeed.  You could skip the vm thing altogether, and just install WAMP on win8.  Gives you everything you need without killing your resources.  After all it's a sand box.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Erik Mitchell" <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>
To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
Date: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 06:11


The distro shouldn't matter at all -- the only hard requirements for
Wordpress are PHP and MySQL. You can run those on Linux, Windows, Mac
OS, BSD, and probably others as well.

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:57 PM, David S. Cargo <escargo at skypoint.com> wrote:
> I want to create a sandbox system to experiment with WordPress.
>
> I've got a still-shiny Windows 8 laptop that I have installed
> VirtualBox on.
>
> I've been experimenting with some light distros (Puppy and SLAX)
> just to see how the run in the virtual environment (not so good
> with Puppy, and fine, but limited with SLAX).
>
> I also have an lubuntu 12.04 that runs fine.
>
> I used the Synaptic package manager to download and install a bunch
> of extra packages that are not part of the base install. I've got
> WordPress downloaded and installed, but not yet properly configured.
> (It doesn't seem to install itself "out of the box" and I still need
> to figure out how to get it connected with MySQL.)
>
> Are there better light-weight distros for this application? An easy
> to install WordPress might not be possible, but I thought I would
> ask.
>
> Any favorite distros for running in VirtualBox?
>
> Thanks.
>
> escargo
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



-- 
Erik K. Mitchell
erik.mitchell at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From joel.longanecker at gmail.com  Tue Mar 26 07:51:08 2013
From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:51:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
In-Reply-To: <515196df.e49f320a.535f.4ebf@mx.google.com>
References: <515196df.e49f320a.535f.4ebf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAOusT-_mrO799b=q-UqsvVL8kgtQZZhtc180zSOCnMhmzPRbTA@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a good tutorial on how to get a wordpress instance up and running
via virtualbox.

http://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-build-a-speedy-wordpress-sandbox-vm/



On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 7:38 AM, mr.chew.baka at gmail.com <
mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Indeed.  You could skip the vm thing altogether, and just install WAMP on
> win8.  Gives you everything you need without killing your resources.  After
> all it's a sand box.
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Erik Mitchell" <erik.mitchell at gmail.com>
> To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
> Date: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 06:11
>
>
> The distro shouldn't matter at all -- the only hard requirements for
> Wordpress are PHP and MySQL. You can run those on Linux, Windows, Mac
> OS, BSD, and probably others as well.
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:57 PM, David S. Cargo <escargo at skypoint.com>
> wrote:
> > I want to create a sandbox system to experiment with WordPress.
> >
> > I've got a still-shiny Windows 8 laptop that I have installed
> > VirtualBox on.
> >
> > I've been experimenting with some light distros (Puppy and SLAX)
> > just to see how the run in the virtual environment (not so good
> > with Puppy, and fine, but limited with SLAX).
> >
> > I also have an lubuntu 12.04 that runs fine.
> >
> > I used the Synaptic package manager to download and install a bunch
> > of extra packages that are not part of the base install. I've got
> > WordPress downloaded and installed, but not yet properly configured.
> > (It doesn't seem to install itself "out of the box" and I still need
> > to figure out how to get it connected with MySQL.)
> >
> > Are there better light-weight distros for this application? An easy
> > to install WordPress might not be possible, but I thought I would
> > ask.
> >
> > Any favorite distros for running in VirtualBox?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > escargo
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> --
> Erik K. Mitchell
> erik.mitchell at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From escargo at skypoint.com  Tue Mar 26 08:48:02 2013
From: escargo at skypoint.com (David S. Cargo)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 08:48:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wanted: Good distro for VirtualBox to run WordPress
In-Reply-To: <CAOusT-_mrO799b=q-UqsvVL8kgtQZZhtc180zSOCnMhmzPRbTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <515196df.e49f320a.535f.4ebf@mx.google.com>
	<CAOusT-_mrO799b=q-UqsvVL8kgtQZZhtc180zSOCnMhmzPRbTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bn93l8pbeo4vopenfu5e29cvtc6q4l6nv2@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:51:08 -0500, Joel Longanecker
<joel.longanecker at gmail.com> wrote:

>Here is a good tutorial on how to get a wordpress instance up and running via virtualbox.
>
>http://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-build-a-speedy-wordpress-sandbox-vm/

That looks right on the money. Thank you.

escargo

From nealzimm at cpinternet.com  Tue Mar 26 09:15:35 2013
From: nealzimm at cpinternet.com (Neal Zimmermann)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:15:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Forward of moderated message
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1364230924.10086.tclug-announce@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.0.1364230924.10086.tclug-announce@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <1364307335.1937.6.camel@fenton.leeshore.net>

On Mon, 2013-03-25 at 12:02 -0500, tclug-announce-bounces at mn-linux.org
wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


If you are subscribed to the tclug-list and the tclug-announces-list,
you should be getting the announcement in your email about 4 to 5 days
ahead of the meeting  You should be able to view the meeting via the
live internet video stream at the supplied URL.

Good Luck!


Neal


From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Tue Mar 26 10:08:42 2013
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:08:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ALSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303252038510.17494@dragon>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251546210.4215@dragon>
	<CACEdYO1wxkJSQGxVzBuJJzrsNvHpCFZ_=54H-E2=H5VRgvqi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303251647420.4215@dragon>
	<8B23A03F-B9EF-4565-B6CD-E919B006316E@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.02.1303252038510.17494@dragon>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO3hBAStUom=m5mahcb53iJajoYoCbfC6kgOFT8mih5dbg@mail.gmail.com>

I don't recommend pulse if everything works now. Pulse is the more the
mainstream and scalable solution now. That being said there are so
many options with it, it's easy to screw up (speaking from
experience). This leads you to frantically find what you did that
hosed some or all of it, or starting over. I have no idea what half
the options in the config file for pulse are, or why they even exist.

I only use pulse because of rolling updates and dependencies,
otherwise I'd stay with strictly with Alsa if I could (there is a
plugin for Alsa to use pulse, which I think then goes back to Alsa
anyway- that was fun setting up).

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> Ok, don't ask me how but it's working now. I guess beating it up enough and
> publically asking for help did the trick...
>
> That said, does anyone know if maybe Pulse is what we should all be using
> nowadays? I've kind of lost track...
>
>
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Thomas Lunde wrote:
>
>> At some point, Ubuntu threw pulseaudio in the mix (says the guy who spent
>> an hour reconfiguring sound on 12.x after he accidentally unplugged the usb
>> external sound card & auto-re-config broke sound).
>>
>> Good luck. Sound really should be a solved problem by now.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There actually isn't/wasn't an /etc/asound.conf... that was one of the
>>> annoying parts.
>>>
>>> I'll have a look at that link.
>>>
>>> I kinda wonder if maybe alsa isn't the Top Dog in sound anymore.
>>>
>>> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Did you also copy over /etc/asound.conf (or where ever Ubuntu stores
>>>> the global ALSA config file)?
>>>>
>>>> Hate to lead you to other distro territory for this, but it could help:
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Upmixing.2FDownmixing
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Yaron <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok folks, it's "Alsa Is Driving Me Crazy YET AGAIN" time.
>>>>>
>>>>> My media center computer's SSD (which is ancient and crappy) is
>>>>> thinking
>>>>> about dying, and I wanted some different software on there (DOWNgrading
>>>>> MythTV to 0.24, in fact) so perfect time to throw a new drive in there
>>>>> and
>>>>> start from scratch since I have a backup.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I can't get sound to work right.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are both Ubuntu systems, the new one is 12.10, the old one, uh.
>>>>> Probably 12.04 via updates.
>>>>>
>>>>> I... remember going through a lot of trouble to get alsa to work
>>>>> correctly
>>>>> in the first place, including giving m full surround sound etc. Now the
>>>>> thing doesn't even show I have the surround channels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the thing. I copied over .asoundrc. I even copied over all of
>>>>> /usr/share/alsa from the previous installation. Still nothing. At one
>>>>> point
>>>>> I managed to get SOME surround sound but the channels were a mess...
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, before I go looking for an alsa-list with it's crazy amount of
>>>>> unhelpful snark, I figured I'd throw it on here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know exactly what I need to copy from the old installation
>>>>> to
>>>>> make it so alsa has the exact same configuration?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From admin at lctn.org  Wed Mar 27 16:22:25 2013
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:22:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04 / apache2 redirect
Message-ID: <51536311.8030509@lctn.org>

I'm attempting to set up a website on port 8001 of a new Ubuntu 12.04 
box (LAMP). I have verified apache is listening on that port via grep 
and telnet. However, if  I attempt to browse to it from another box, by 
IP or fqdn:8001, the browser is redirected to port 80. I did not 
knowingly install any type of proxy on the box and do not have IPTables 
running. Any ideas what might be intercepting the request?

If I enable port 80 in ports.conf , I get a message "Apache/2.2.22 
(Ubuntu) Server at server Port 80", after attempting to reach the site 
via http://fqdn:8001, or http://ip:8001

This is what I have for config files:

ports.conf:
NameVirtualHost *:8001
#Listen 80
Listen 8001


Sites-enabled: Default
<VirtualHost *:8001 >
         ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost
         servername x.domain

         DocumentRoot /var/www
         <Directory />
                 Options FollowSymLinks
                 AllowOverride None
         </Directory>
</VirtualHost>
~

Raymond

From stuporglue at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 16:45:49 2013
From: stuporglue at gmail.com (Michael Moore)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:45:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04 / apache2 redirect
In-Reply-To: <51536311.8030509@lctn.org>
References: <51536311.8030509@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <CAFE18KVWezkcUK=gTVP-sE7R0Jj2SrVJwCNCjMnrTWh1=6se1A@mail.gmail.com>

Can you look at the headers, either with Curl or with something like
http://livehttpheaders.mozdev.org/ ?

If you're doing HTTP redirects in either code (eg. PHP) or .htaccess
the redirect might be redirecting to http::/fqdn which would imply
:80.

The headers will tell you if that's what's going on.
--
Michael

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Raymond Norton <admin at lctn.org> wrote:
> I'm attempting to set up a website on port 8001 of a new Ubuntu 12.04 box
> (LAMP). I have verified apache is listening on that port via grep and
> telnet. However, if  I attempt to browse to it from another box, by IP or
> fqdn:8001, the browser is redirected to port 80. I did not knowingly install
> any type of proxy on the box and do not have IPTables running. Any ideas
> what might be intercepting the request?
>
> If I enable port 80 in ports.conf , I get a message "Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu)
> Server at server Port 80", after attempting to reach the site via
> http://fqdn:8001, or http://ip:8001
>
> This is what I have for config files:
>
> ports.conf:
> NameVirtualHost *:8001
> #Listen 80
> Listen 8001
>
>
> Sites-enabled: Default
> <VirtualHost *:8001 >
>         ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost
>         servername x.domain
>
>         DocumentRoot /var/www
>         <Directory />
>                 Options FollowSymLinks
>                 AllowOverride None
>         </Directory>
> </VirtualHost>
> ~
>
> Raymond
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



-- 
Support the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archives
Like this project on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 20:11:15 2013
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?bXIuY2hldy5iYWthQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:11:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] =?utf-8?q?Ubuntu_12=2E04_/_apache2_redirect?=
Message-ID: <515398be.0a06e00a.5fd3.ffff80e9@mx.google.com>

Are you restarting apache after you make config changes?

----- Reply message -----
From: "Raymond Norton" <admin at lctn.org>
To: "TCLUG" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04 / apache2 redirect
Date: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 16:22


I'm attempting to set up a website on port 8001 of a new Ubuntu 12.04 
box (LAMP). I have verified apache is listening on that port via grep 
and telnet. However, if  I attempt to browse to it from another box, by 
IP or fqdn:8001, the browser is redirected to port 80. I did not 
knowingly install any type of proxy on the box and do not have IPTables 
running. Any ideas what might be intercepting the request?

If I enable port 80 in ports.conf , I get a message "Apache/2.2.22 
(Ubuntu) Server at server Port 80", after attempting to reach the site 
via http://fqdn:8001, or http://ip:8001

This is what I have for config files:

ports.conf:
NameVirtualHost *:8001
#Listen 80
Listen 8001


Sites-enabled: Default
<VirtualHost *:8001 >
         ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost
         servername x.domain

         DocumentRoot /var/www
         <Directory />
                 Options FollowSymLinks
                 AllowOverride None
         </Directory>
</VirtualHost>
~

Raymond
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From admin at lctn.org  Wed Mar 27 20:49:37 2013
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:49:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04 / apache2 redirect
In-Reply-To: <515398be.0a06e00a.5fd3.ffff80e9@mx.google.com>
References: <515398be.0a06e00a.5fd3.ffff80e9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5153A1B1.70907@lctn.org>

Yes... Reboot too.



On 03/27/2013 08:11 PM, mr.chew.baka at gmail.com wrote:
> Are you restarting apache after you make config changes?
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Raymond Norton" <admin at lctn.org>
> To: "TCLUG" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04 / apache2 redirect
> Date: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 16:22
>
>
> I'm attempting to set up a website on port 8001 of a new Ubuntu 12.04
> box (LAMP). I have verified apache is listening on that port via grep
> and telnet. However, if  I attempt to browse to it from another box, by
> IP or fqdn:8001, the browser is redirected to port 80. I did not
> knowingly install any type of proxy on the box and do not have IPTables
> running. Any ideas what might be intercepting the request?
>
> If I enable port 80 in ports.conf , I get a message "Apache/2.2.22
> (Ubuntu) Server at server Port 80", after attempting to reach the site
> via http://fqdn:8001, or http://ip:8001
>
> This is what I have for config files:
>
> ports.conf:
> NameVirtualHost *:8001
> #Listen 80
> Listen 8001
>
>
> Sites-enabled: Default
> <VirtualHost *:8001 >
>         ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost
>         servername x.domain
>
>         DocumentRoot /var/www
>         <Directory />
>                 Options FollowSymLinks
>                 AllowOverride None
>         </Directory>
> </VirtualHost>
> ~
>
> Raymond
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From admin at lctn.org  Thu Mar 28 09:37:03 2013
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:37:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 12.04 / apache2 redirect
In-Reply-To: <515398be.0a06e00a.5fd3.ffff80e9@mx.google.com>
References: <515398be.0a06e00a.5fd3.ffff80e9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5154558F.8030803@lctn.org>

Suppose I should have mentioned this was a Wordpress site.... The URL 
settings must have the port info in order to work, or it defaults to 80.

Have it working now..


Thanks for the replies.



> I'm attempting to set up a website on port 8001 of a new Ubuntu 12.04
> box (LAMP). I have verified apache is listening on that port via grep
> and telnet. However, if  I attempt to browse to it from another box, by
> IP or fqdn:8001, the browser is redirected to port 80. I did not
> knowingly install any type of proxy on the box and do not have IPTables
> running. Any ideas what might be intercepting the request?
>
> If I enable port 80 in ports.conf , I get a message "Apache/2.2.22
> (Ubuntu) Server at server Port 80", after attempting to reach the site
> via http://fqdn:8001, or http://ip:8001
>
> This is what I have for config files:
>
> ports.conf:
> NameVirtualHost *:8001
> #Listen 80
> Listen 8001
>
>
> Sites-enabled: Default
> <VirtualHost *:8001 >
>         ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost
>         servername x.domain
>
>         DocumentRoot /var/www
>         <Directory />
>                 Options FollowSymLinks
>                 AllowOverride None
>         </Directory>
> </VirtualHost>
> ~
>
> Raymond
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by *MailScanner* <http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 30 16:53:04 2013
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 21:53:04 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
Message-ID: <CABWFOjsa8oMOnGn2ctNPrBK3zEokw+H27Ewkfh4O=7zSOU9NnA@mail.gmail.com>

Up till now I've just been building a static library.
Now I want to also create a shared library.
I'm trying to figure out how to compile the files
without the fpic option for the static library and
then add fpic and recompile the files for the shared
library.  I'd like to do this from one makefile.
I've been duckduckgoing for a couple of hours, but
haven't figured it out.  Thanks in advance.
https://duckduckgo.com


-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net          (651) 251-9384
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From florin at iucha.net  Sun Mar 31 13:13:33 2013
From: florin at iucha.net (Florin Iucha)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:13:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsa8oMOnGn2ctNPrBK3zEokw+H27Ewkfh4O=7zSOU9NnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsa8oMOnGn2ctNPrBK3zEokw+H27Ewkfh4O=7zSOU9NnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130331181333.GP19193@signbit.net>

On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 09:53:04PM +0000, Brian Wood wrote:
> Up till now I've just been building a static library.
> Now I want to also create a shared library.
> I'm trying to figure out how to compile the files
> without the fpic option for the static library and
> then add fpic and recompile the files for the shared
> library.  I'd like to do this from one makefile.

Why is that a requirement?  Can that one master makefile call two
other makefiles, one that produces the static library and the other
that produces the shared libary?  Or it might be even the same slave
makefile, that is called with different arguments (to insert fpic on
the compiler command line, for instance).

Clearly you need to generate object files in two separate directories,
or you need to name them differently.

Cheers,
florin

-- 
Sent from my other microwave oven.
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From nesius at gmail.com  Sun Mar 31 15:07:41 2013
From: nesius at gmail.com (Robert Nesius)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 15:07:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] make/build question
In-Reply-To: <20130331181333.GP19193@signbit.net>
References: <CABWFOjsa8oMOnGn2ctNPrBK3zEokw+H27Ewkfh4O=7zSOU9NnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130331181333.GP19193@signbit.net>
Message-ID: <CAOOsjE9V56YE5o10nY-GMYnTjwDMzqbVvG8A7BpLYL5S2CQn2g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Florin Iucha <florin at iucha.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 09:53:04PM +0000, Brian Wood wrote:
> > Up till now I've just been building a static library.
> > Now I want to also create a shared library.
> > I'm trying to figure out how to compile the files
> > without the fpic option for the static library and
> > then add fpic and recompile the files for the shared
> > library.  I'd like to do this from one makefile.
>
> Why is that a requirement?  Can that one master makefile call two
> other makefiles, one that produces the static library and the other
> that produces the shared libary?  Or it might be even the same slave
> makefile, that is called with different arguments (to insert fpic on
> the compiler command line, for instance).
>
> Clearly you need to generate object files in two separate directories,
> or you need to name them differently.
>

Multiple Makefiles not strictly needed though that can work.  I think
multiple targets in the makefile would maybe be more handy.

all: static shared

static:
    Compile source files with static flags - object files as .o
    link with static flags (generate the .a or whatever)

shared:
    Compile source files with shared flags - object files as .so?
    Link with shared flags - generate the .so

I was going to do an experiment to see if you could compile with source
files with -fPIC and then link statically. While addresses have to be
position independent in a shared object and statically linked code does not
need to be position independent, I'm not sure that implies addresses in a
static lib CAN'T be position independent.

It's been awhile since I've built something from source. I think I'm
remembering for most libraries I built, asking for shared and static libs
resulted in all object files being compiled with flags appropriate for
shared libs and then two separate links at the end to create the .a and
.so.

I'd recommend downloading zlib or some other small library and configure it
to compile both shared and static.  Log the build and then see how they
handled it. I'm guessing there's some useful stuff in their autoconf setup
you could swipe?  If you're not using autoconf you could look at their
generated Makefiles for ideas...

-Rob
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