From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 13:39:13 2014 From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2014 13:39:13 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance; or other Linux raid suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> On 11/29/2014 09:06 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital > drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other > suggestions? > Based on the pile of dead drives laying on my desk right now (and the links below), avoid Seagate like the plague. Unless you really like swapping disks all the time. I tried out a WD "Green" drive for an application where performance didn't matter as well (offline storage in a fire safe, with monthly updates), because it was cheap - and it was junk too. It literally worked 3 times, before failed entirely. Higher end WD is probably better - but lately, I've been spending the extra $ for Hitachi / HGST drives for systems where I don't want to deal with drive failures: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/ https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/ WD now owns the Hitachi drive line, but they don't seem to have ruined it yet. As far as disk size... 2 or 3 TB isn't that much higher than 1 TB these days.... especially if you go with the cheapest drives, and just deal with the inevitable failures. Depending on how the numbers shake out, however, you might come out ahead just running 3 6TB drives in a mirror config, rather than 5 smaller drives in a different RAID config to get your 2 drive fail-safety. Another nice aspect of a simple mirror setup, is you can pull a drive and read it, without needing the RAID config. Dan From tclug at freakzilla.com Mon Dec 1 13:55:55 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 13:55:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance; or other Linux raid suggestions? In-Reply-To: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> References: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've been using WD Red drives in my arrays for a few years now. Had one (out of like 16) go bad after a year or so, WD replaced it with no hassle at all. I would recommend buying at least 1 extra drive per array, so you have a hot-spare. On Mon, 1 Dec 2014, Dan Armbrust wrote: > On 11/29/2014 09:06 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: >> Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital >> drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other >> suggestions? >> > > Based on the pile of dead drives laying on my desk right now (and the links > below), avoid Seagate like the plague. Unless you really like swapping disks > all the time. > I tried out a WD "Green" drive for an application where performance didn't > matter as well (offline storage in a fire safe, with monthly updates), > because > it was cheap - and it was junk too. It literally worked 3 times, before > failed entirely. > > Higher end WD is probably better - but lately, I've been spending the extra $ > for Hitachi / HGST drives for systems where I don't want to deal with drive > failures: > > https://www.backblaze.com/blog/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/ > https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/ > > WD now owns the Hitachi drive line, but they don't seem to have ruined it > yet. > > As far as disk size... 2 or 3 TB isn't that much higher than 1 TB these > days.... especially if you go with the cheapest drives, and just deal with > the inevitable failures. > > Depending on how the numbers shake out, however, you might come out ahead > just running 3 6TB drives in a mirror config, rather than 5 smaller drives in > a different RAID config to get your 2 drive fail-safety. Another nice aspect > of a simple mirror setup, is you can pull a drive and read it, without > needing the RAID config. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 21:07:27 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 21:07:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance; or other Linux raid suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I was leaning toward giving the Red NAS drives a shot, but went with two WD Blue drives, they were on sale really cheap. I noticed some manufacturers don't even make 1 TB anymore, which is actually what I'd prefer to stick with. RAID drives with 3 - 4 TB give me the impression there is a little more room for failure on a RAID, that, and it's more than I need. I've used green drives when handed them to me at a previous job for a NAS, they actually did okay for about a year of large (images) being archived on them, then one of four started relocating sectors like crazy. I wouldn't rule the greens out with spares on hand for a home NAS. I've seen the studies about Seagate. I must of lucked out before they went south, the first two I have still have their 5 year warranty and no issues popping up in SMART yet (I think they are about 4 years old now). Backing up the old raid to an external. With the amount of backups I have, if I do decide to try zfs before the sticking with a Linux software raid I'll post the experience here. Thanks again for all the great suggestions, -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 1:55 PM, wrote: > I've been using WD Red drives in my arrays for a few years now. Had one > (out of like 16) go bad after a year or so, WD replaced it with no hassle > at all. > > I would recommend buying at least 1 extra drive per array, so you have a > hot-spare. > > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2014, Dan Armbrust wrote: > > On 11/29/2014 09:06 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: >> >>> Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital >>> drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other >>> suggestions? >>> >>> >> Based on the pile of dead drives laying on my desk right now (and the >> links below), avoid Seagate like the plague. Unless you really like >> swapping disks all the time. >> I tried out a WD "Green" drive for an application where performance >> didn't matter as well (offline storage in a fire safe, with monthly >> updates), because >> it was cheap - and it was junk too. It literally worked 3 times, before >> failed entirely. >> >> Higher end WD is probably better - but lately, I've been spending the >> extra $ for Hitachi / HGST drives for systems where I don't want to deal >> with drive failures: >> >> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/ >> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability- >> update-september-2014/ >> >> WD now owns the Hitachi drive line, but they don't seem to have ruined it >> yet. >> >> As far as disk size... 2 or 3 TB isn't that much higher than 1 TB these >> days.... especially if you go with the cheapest drives, and just deal with >> the inevitable failures. >> >> Depending on how the numbers shake out, however, you might come out ahead >> just running 3 6TB drives in a mirror config, rather than 5 smaller drives >> in a different RAID config to get your 2 drive fail-safety. Another nice >> aspect of a simple mirror setup, is you can pull a drive and read it, >> without needing the RAID config. >> >> Dan >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkateley at kateley.com Tue Dec 2 08:55:48 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 08:55:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance; or other Linux raid suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <547DD2F4.4090006@kateley.com> I recently wrote a blog about a local petabyte system. They use the WD red nas drives. http://kateleyco.com/?p=815 linda On 12/1/14, 9:07 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > Thanks, I was leaning toward giving the Red NAS drives a shot, but > went with two WD Blue drives, they were on sale really cheap. I > noticed some manufacturers don't even make 1 TB anymore, which is > actually what I'd prefer to stick with. RAID drives with 3 - 4 TB give > me the impression there is a little more room for failure on a RAID, > that, and it's more than I need. > > I've used green drives when handed them to me at a previous job for a > NAS, they actually did okay for about a year of large (images) being > archived on them, then one of four started relocating sectors like > crazy. I wouldn't rule the greens out with spares on hand for a home NAS. > > I've seen the studies about Seagate. I must of lucked out before they > went south, the first two I have still have their 5 year warranty and > no issues popping up in SMART yet (I think they are about 4 years old > now). > > Backing up the old raid to an external. With the amount of backups I > have, if I do decide to try zfs before the sticking with a Linux > software raid I'll post the experience here. > > Thanks again for all the great suggestions, > > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 1:55 PM, > wrote: > > I've been using WD Red drives in my arrays for a few years now. > Had one (out of like 16) go bad after a year or so, WD replaced it > with no hassle at all. > > I would recommend buying at least 1 extra drive per array, so you > have a hot-spare. > > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2014, Dan Armbrust wrote: > > On 11/29/2014 09:06 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > > Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with > Western Digital > drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone > has other > suggestions? > > > Based on the pile of dead drives laying on my desk right now > (and the links below), avoid Seagate like the plague. Unless > you really like swapping disks all the time. > I tried out a WD "Green" drive for an application where > performance didn't matter as well (offline storage in a fire > safe, with monthly updates), because > it was cheap - and it was junk too. It literally worked 3 > times, before failed entirely. > > Higher end WD is probably better - but lately, I've been > spending the extra $ for Hitachi / HGST drives for systems > where I don't want to deal with drive failures: > > https://www.backblaze.com/blog/what-hard-drive-should-i-buy/ > https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/ > > WD now owns the Hitachi drive line, but they don't seem to > have ruined it yet. > > As far as disk size... 2 or 3 TB isn't that much higher than 1 > TB these days.... especially if you go with the cheapest > drives, and just deal with the inevitable failures. > > Depending on how the numbers shake out, however, you might > come out ahead just running 3 6TB drives in a mirror config, > rather than 5 smaller drives in a different RAID config to get > your 2 drive fail-safety. Another nice aspect of a simple > mirror setup, is you can pull a drive and read it, without > needing the RAID config. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrome at real-time.com Tue Dec 2 09:18:26 2014 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 10:18:26 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance; or other Linux raid suggestions? In-Reply-To: <547DD2F4.4090006@kateley.com> References: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> <547DD2F4.4090006@kateley.com> Message-ID: <20141202151825.GH764@real-time.com> On 12/02 08:55 , Linda Kateley wrote: > I recently wrote a blog about a local petabyte system. They use the WD red > nas drives. > > http://kateleyco.com/?p=815 I'm impressed. Can you describe more how this works? "They can have scheduled and unscheduled downtime without complaints." What kind of clustering/failover are they doing? -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From lkateley at kateley.com Tue Dec 2 10:03:11 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:03:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance; or other Linux raid suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20141202151825.GH764@real-time.com> References: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> <547DD2F4.4090006@kateley.com> <20141202151825.GH764@real-time.com> Message-ID: <547DE2BF.9080901@kateley.com> They can have multiple day downtime with no problem. They do no clustering. Academia is quite often this way.. If you wanted to build this more reliable, you could go sas with multipathing or even run multiple sata controllers and do manual import.. I usually recommend 2 head nodes and 2 paths to each storage chain.. But this still could be done under probably 150k. On 12/2/14, 9:18 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > On 12/02 08:55 , Linda Kateley wrote: >> I recently wrote a blog about a local petabyte system. They use the WD red >> nas drives. >> >> http://kateleyco.com/?p=815 > I'm impressed. > Can you describe more how this works? "They can have scheduled and > unscheduled downtime without complaints." > What kind of clustering/failover are they doing? > From chrome at real-time.com Tue Dec 2 10:18:47 2014 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 11:18:47 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance; or other Linux raid suggestions? In-Reply-To: <547DE2BF.9080901@kateley.com> References: <547CC3E1.6050705@gmail.com> <547DD2F4.4090006@kateley.com> <20141202151825.GH764@real-time.com> <547DE2BF.9080901@kateley.com> Message-ID: <20141202161847.GI764@real-time.com> On 12/02 10:03 , Linda Kateley wrote: > They can have multiple day downtime with no problem. They do no clustering. > Academia is quite often this way.. > > If you wanted to build this more reliable, you could go sas with > multipathing or even run multiple sata controllers and do manual import.. I > usually recommend 2 head nodes and 2 paths to each storage chain.. But this > still could be done under probably 150k. ok. Thanks for the update! -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 11:41:48 2014 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 11:41:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale Message-ID: A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 years old. HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) Gigabit Ethernet $270 obo And I have this phone for $15 obo http://www.amazon.com/PCD-Chaser-Prepaid-Android-Virgin/dp/B0087T0XA8 -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - Trust in the L-rd with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. Proverbs 3:5 http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 11:50:25 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 11:50:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll give you $0 to stop spamming the list with that phone. On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Brian Wood wrote: > A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to > FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number > of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following > computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora > and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a > recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 > years old. > > HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. > > http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA > > 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz > 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) > Gigabit Ethernet > > $270 obo > > And I have this phone for $15 obo > http://www.amazon.com/PCD-Chaser-Prepaid-Android-Virgin/dp/B0087T0XA8 > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - Trust in the L-rd with all your heart > and lean not on your own understanding. Proverbs 3:5 > > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Dec 3 12:07:44 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 12:07:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > I'll give you $0 to stop spamming the list with that phone. I will personally DOUBLE that amount if you stop with that phone. From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Dec 3 12:16:55 2014 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 12:16:55 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Same for the PC: a typical price for such a used computer is under $100 for off-lease, professionally maintained gear. > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Chapin > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 11:50 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale > > I'll give you $0 to stop spamming the list with that phone. > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Brian Wood > wrote: > > A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to > > FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number > > of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following > > computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora > > and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a > > recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 > > years old. > > > > HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/ > dp/B004EBUXIA > > > > 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz > > 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) > > Gigabit Ethernet > > > > $270 obo > > > > And I have this phone for $15 obo > > > http://www.amazon.com/PCD-Chaser-Prepaid-Android-Virgin/dp/B0087T0XA8 > > > > -- > > Brian > > Ebenezer Enterprises - Trust in the L-rd with all your heart > > and lean not on your own understanding. Proverbs 3:5 > > > > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Dec 3 12:23:39 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2014 12:23:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] BRIAN WOOD, PLEASE READ THIS (was: Re: HP desktop for sale) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Brian. Believe it or not, this is a 100% serious message. Look, you've been trying to sell that phoen for what, a year or so now? Nobody here is going to buy it, no matter the price. So here's what I want you to do. There are plenty of places that'll take use cellphone donations. They give them to people who really need one, like women's shelters and the like. That phone of yours could potentially save a life, or at the very least make someone feel safe. Surely that's worth more than a mythical $15 you're never going to get. Please just donate that phone to someone who will actually truly appreciate just having it. On Wed, 3 Dec 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > On Wed, 3 Dec 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: > >> I'll give you $0 to stop spamming the list with that phone. > > I will personally DOUBLE that amount if you stop with that phone. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jus at krytosvirus.com Wed Dec 3 12:32:10 2014 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2014 12:32:10 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint, A Success Story Message-ID: I've been using Linux Mint since I was forced off of Ubuntu by having no interest in using Unity or Gnome3 for my desktop experience. For a release or two on Ubunutu I was able to use "fallback mode" on the desktop environment and it would give me Gnome2 but they eventually pulled that out entirely so I tried a bunch of distros (including Kubuntu) and settled on Mint with Mate to keep the same general look/feel as gnome2 and since it is Ubuntu based I have the same tools and packages generally available. So I've been trucking along for a while and things generally just work. I am long past the time of wanting to play around and tinker with every little thing so there is not much excitement for me there anymore to explore a distro. So when things just work, that is one of my major measures of success. When things don't work and it takes very little time/effort to fix, that is also pretty fantastic in my eyes. I just recently upgraded my workstation from Linux Mint 15 (MATE 64-bit) to Linux Mint 17 (MATE 64-bit) so I can be on the LTS release. The upgrade went pretty smooth, having multiple hard drives and partitions I was able to maintain access to my previous Mint 15 install while keeping /home identical across both. Turns out I did not need bother with that as everything worked out well. I only really needed to re-install the apps that I use, for which the main ones I keep a list on a wiki page as well as notes and other useful hints to remind myself on certain /etc/ config file settings, iptables rules, etc. After running for a couple of weeks or maybe it's been a month I decided to do a similar upgrade for my laptop but I did not intend to maintain the original Mint 15 "/" partition and just overwrite it due to disk space constraints. I also keep /home on a separate partition so I did not have to worry about that data or the multitude of user-specific settings. I can't believe how smooth the upgrade process was. Absolutely no glitches or issues. When I booted up my desktop screen looked exactly the same as before (thanks to /home being untouched); I just needed to go through the same re-install apps process and re-work a few /etc config files again. Now when I say "upgrade" I mean a fresh install in both cases of my $dayjob workstation and my laptop. I don't know what else to say but for normal desktop power-user use, I have basically nothing to complain about when it comes to Mint. Also a few months back I decided to give back and setup a public Mint mirror at $dayjob. So now I have even have local LAN access to packages, updates, ISOs, etc for Mint (as well as Ubuntu and CentOS). In any case I give a +1 for Mint all the way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 08:50:08 2014 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:50:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Modern Networking Guide? Message-ID: <1246718811.5039954.1417704608967.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10624.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've seen all these books that say they're about "networking" . . . and they seem to be about some corner of networking, typically out-of-date. What I'm looking for is a modern, up-to-date guide/tutorial that will tell me A, what's really going on in the world of networking, and B, how to program/sys-admin for networks. For example, I'm reading Stephenson's "REAMDE" and there's a character who says, "How many players you have coming in from 50.17.186.234?" First, he knew how to find the WiFi hotspot address, right? So yeah, I'd like to know networking lore like that. LB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu Thu Dec 4 09:12:19 2014 From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 09:12:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Modern Networking Guide? In-Reply-To: <1246718811.5039954.1417704608967.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10624.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1246718811.5039954.1417704608967.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10624.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <548079D3.4030704@my.hennepintech.edu> On 2014.12.04 08:50, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > I've seen all these books that say they're about "networking" . . . and they > seem to be about some corner of networking, typically out-of-date. What I'm > looking for is a modern, up-to-date guide/tutorial that will tell me A, what's > really going on in the world of networking, and B, how to program/sys-admin for > networks. I'd say networking itself doesn't change very quickly. IPv6 is 15 years old and IPv4 classes died 20 years ago. The implementation and details are where things change more often, and it really depends on what you're looking for. Systems administration and network engineering are two completely different fields. Yes, each has to know a bit about the other, but providing some basic network services and provisioning a bunch of Linux boxes to play nice in your own little local network requires a different skill set from making sure a large network (for say, a medium/large business) is properly segregated and all the different types of hosts have connectivity to exactly what they need and nothing more. Pretty much anything decent written in the last 10-15 years that covers the *basics* will be sufficiently up-to-date. Once you have the basics, then you need to (and will be better able to) figure out what part of "networking" you're actually trying to learn. From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 14:41:10 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 14:41:10 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script Message-ID: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> I want to review out networks periodically for current dns records, using the host dns lookup tool. I would like to use a bash script and have it look up 30-50 IPs per run. Anyone have a simple script for this? -- Raymond Norton LCTN 952.955.7766 From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Dec 4 14:55:15 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 14:55:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> Message-ID: for ip in list_of_hostnames; do host $ip done On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: > I want to review out networks periodically for current dns records, using the > host dns lookup tool. I would like to use a bash script and have it look up > 30-50 IPs per run. Anyone have a simple script for this? > > From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 15:36:45 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:36:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> Message-ID: <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> I get the following error: Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > for ip in list_of_hostnames; do > host $ip > done > > > > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: > >> I want to review out networks periodically for current dns records, >> using the host dns lookup tool. I would like to use a bash script and >> have it look up 30-50 IPs per run. Anyone have a simple script for this? >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Raymond Norton LCTN 952.955.7766 From shadentsmith at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 15:40:43 2014 From: shadentsmith at gmail.com (Shaden Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:40:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> Message-ID: What are you using for the list of host names? The code posted before works fine as long as you're giving it a list correctly. On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I get the following error: > > Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) > > > > > > On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > >> for ip in list_of_hostnames; do >> host $ip >> done >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: >> >> I want to review out networks periodically for current dns records, >>> using the host dns lookup tool. I would like to use a bash script and have >>> it look up 30-50 IPs per run. Anyone have a simple script for this? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > -- > Raymond Norton > LCTN > 952.955.7766 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 15:41:33 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:41:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> Message-ID: list_of_hostnames should be an actual list of hostnames. On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I get the following error: > > Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) > > > > > > On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >> >> for ip in list_of_hostnames; do >> host $ip >> done >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: >> >>> I want to review out networks periodically for current dns records, using >>> the host dns lookup tool. I would like to use a bash script and have it look >>> up 30-50 IPs per run. Anyone have a simple script for this? >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > Raymond Norton > LCTN > 952.955.7766 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 15:41:43 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:41:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> Message-ID: <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> Im using IP's x.x.x.x x.x.x.x On 12/04/2014 03:40 PM, Shaden Smith wrote: > What are you using for the list of host names? The code posted before > works fine as long as you're giving it a list correctly. > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Raymond Norton > wrote: > > I get the following error: > > Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) > > > > > > On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com > wrote: > > for ip in list_of_hostnames; do > host $ip > done > > > > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: > > I want to review out networks periodically for current dns > records, using the host dns lookup tool. I would like to > use a bash script and have it look up 30-50 IPs per run. > Anyone have a simple script for this? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > Raymond Norton > LCTN > 952.955.7766 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Raymond Norton LCTN 952.955.7766 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 15:42:48 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:42:48 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> Message-ID: <5480D558.6000106@lctn.org> I changed the name to hostnames and populated with IPs. On 12/04/2014 03:41 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > list_of_hostnames should be an actual list of hostnames. > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: >> I get the following error: >> >> Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) >> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >>> for ip in list_of_hostnames; do >>> host $ip >>> done >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> >>>> I want to review out networks periodically for current dns records, using >>>> the host dns lookup tool. I would like to use a bash script and have it look >>>> up 30-50 IPs per run. Anyone have a simple script for this? >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> -- >> Raymond Norton >> LCTN >> 952.955.7766 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Raymond Norton LCTN 952.955.7766 From tclug at freakzilla.com Thu Dec 4 15:44:49 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:44:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> Message-ID: Should still work. Here's how I'd run it on one of my servers: sterling at rooster:/home/sterling$ for ip in 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.65 192.168.0.74; do > host $ip > done 100.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer tiger.yaron.org. 65.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer wyvern.yaron.org. 74.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer dragon.yaron.org. If it's not working for you, try just "host ip_address". If that fails, too, you have some weird DNS stuff going on. On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: > Im using IP's > > x.x.x.x > x.x.x.x > > > On 12/04/2014 03:40 PM, Shaden Smith wrote: > What are you using for the list of host names? The code posted > before works fine as long as you're giving it a list correctly. > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I get the following error: > > Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) > > > > > On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > for ip in list_of_hostnames; do > host $ip > done > > > > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: > > I want to review out networks > periodically for current dns > records, using the host dns lookup > tool. I would like to use a bash > script and have it look up 30-50 > IPs per run. Anyone have a simple > script for this? > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > -- > Raymond Norton > LCTN > 952.955.7766 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 15:49:23 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:49:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> Message-ID: <5480D6E3.1030206@lctn.org> That works for me, as well. Have not gotten the file to work though. tried: x.x.x.x x.x.x.x x.x.x.x and x.x.x.x x.x.x.x x.x.x.x Host util thinks the file is an actual host. On 12/04/2014 03:44 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > for ip in 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.65 192.168.0.74; do >> host $ip >> done -- Raymond Norton LCTN 952.955.7766 From chapinjeff at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 15:52:11 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:52:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: <5480D6E3.1030206@lctn.org> References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> <5480D6E3.1030206@lctn.org> Message-ID: what file? The for loop above takes an actual list of hostnames. If you want to use a text file: for ip in $( cat list_of_hostnames.txt); do host $ip done On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > That works for me, as well. Have not gotten the file to work though. > > tried: x.x.x.x x.x.x.x x.x.x.x > and > x.x.x.x > x.x.x.x > x.x.x.x > > > Host util thinks the file is an actual host. > > > > On 12/04/2014 03:44 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >> >> for ip in 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.65 192.168.0.74; do >>> >>> host $ip >>> done > > > -- > Raymond Norton > LCTN > 952.955.7766 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired From admin at lctn.org Thu Dec 4 15:54:35 2014 From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 15:54:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> Message-ID: <5480D81B.9040503@lctn.org> I misunderstood the original response. Thought it was a file name I will just make scripts like this: for ip in x.x.x.x x.x.x.x x.x.x.x ; do host $ip done Works fine. Thanks On 12/04/2014 03:44 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > Should still work. Here's how I'd run it on one of my servers: > > sterling at rooster:/home/sterling$ for ip in 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.65 > 192.168.0.74; do >> host $ip >> done > 100.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer tiger.yaron.org. > 65.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer wyvern.yaron.org. > 74.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer dragon.yaron.org. > > If it's not working for you, try just "host ip_address". If that > fails, too, you have some weird DNS stuff going on. > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: > >> Im using IP's >> >> x.x.x.x >> x.x.x.x >> >> >> On 12/04/2014 03:40 PM, Shaden Smith wrote: >> What are you using for the list of host names? The code posted >> before works fine as long as you're giving it a list correctly. >> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: >> I get the following error: >> >> Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) >> >> >> >> >> On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >> for ip in list_of_hostnames; do >> host $ip >> done >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: >> >> I want to review out networks >> periodically for current dns >> records, using the host dns lookup >> tool. I would like to use a bash >> script and have it look up 30-50 >> IPs per run. Anyone have a simple >> script for this? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> -- >> Raymond Norton >> LCTN >> 952.955.7766 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Raymond Norton LCTN 952.955.7766 From chapinjeff at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 15:55:50 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:55:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> <5480D6E3.1030206@lctn.org> Message-ID: Apologies -- I think that may have come out sounding more harsh than I intended. Silly text only communication. :-D On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > what file? The for loop above takes an actual list of hostnames. > > If you want to use a text file: > > for ip in $( cat list_of_hostnames.txt); do > host $ip > done > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: >> That works for me, as well. Have not gotten the file to work though. >> >> tried: x.x.x.x x.x.x.x x.x.x.x >> and >> x.x.x.x >> x.x.x.x >> x.x.x.x >> >> >> Host util thinks the file is an actual host. >> >> >> >> On 12/04/2014 03:44 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >>> >>> for ip in 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.65 192.168.0.74; do >>>> >>>> host $ip >>>> done >> >> >> -- >> Raymond Norton >> LCTN >> 952.955.7766 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired From shadentsmith at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 15:56:18 2014 From: shadentsmith at gmail.com (Shaden Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 15:56:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] host lookup script In-Reply-To: <5480D81B.9040503@lctn.org> References: <5480C6E6.2030200@lctn.org> <5480D3ED.50301@lctn.org> <5480D517.8050208@lctn.org> <5480D81B.9040503@lctn.org> Message-ID: Jeff's solution works for a file of host names: for ip in $(cat list.txt); do host $ip; done On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: > I misunderstood the original response. Thought it was a file name > > > > I will just make scripts like this: > > > > > for ip in x.x.x.x x.x.x.x x.x.x.x ; do > host $ip > done > > > Works fine. > > Thanks > > > > > On 12/04/2014 03:44 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > >> Should still work. Here's how I'd run it on one of my servers: >> >> sterling at rooster:/home/sterling$ for ip in 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.65 >> 192.168.0.74; do >> >>> host $ip >>> done >>> >> 100.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer tiger.yaron.org. >> 65.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer wyvern.yaron.org. >> 74.0.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer dragon.yaron.org. >> >> If it's not working for you, try just "host ip_address". If that fails, >> too, you have some weird DNS stuff going on. >> >> On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: >> >> Im using IP's >>> >>> x.x.x.x >>> x.x.x.x >>> >>> >>> On 12/04/2014 03:40 PM, Shaden Smith wrote: >>> What are you using for the list of host names? The code posted >>> before works fine as long as you're giving it a list correctly. >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> I get the following error: >>> >>> Host hostnames not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/04/2014 02:55 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: >>> for ip in list_of_hostnames; do >>> host $ip >>> done >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 4 Dec 2014, Raymond Norton wrote: >>> >>> I want to review out networks >>> periodically for current dns >>> records, using the host dns lookup >>> tool. I would like to use a bash >>> script and have it look up 30-50 >>> IPs per run. Anyone have a simple >>> script for this? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >>> Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Raymond Norton >>> LCTN >>> 952.955.7766 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > -- > Raymond Norton > LCTN > 952.955.7766 > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 20:14:18 2014 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:14:18 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale Message-ID: A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 years old. HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) Gigabit Ethernet $220 or best offer. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 20:32:46 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:32:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian, You may wish to take these offers to someplace more appropriate, like craigslist. On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to > FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number > of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following > computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora > and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a > recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 > years old. > > HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. > > http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA > > 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz > 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) > Gigabit Ethernet > > $220 or best offer. > > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Dec 4 21:06:21 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 21:06:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I actually enjoy reading the list and the occasional add myself. Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:14:18 -0600 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 years old. HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) Gigabit Ethernet $220 or best offer. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Fri Dec 5 09:08:52 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 09:08:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C9FCBD6-6928-4560-A100-AF8EFF40AEDB@cwis.biz> You posted this twice? You?re starting to sound more like "paul g" (or like you were a few years ago). Free Geek the computer, please. You cannot price a computer based on what a brand new CPU is worth in the packaging. Same with the cell phone. > On Dec 4, 2014, at 8:14 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > > A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to > FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number > of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following > computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora > and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a > recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 > years old. > > HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. > > http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA > > 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz > 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) > Gigabit Ethernet > > $220 or best offer. > > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkateley at kateley.com Fri Dec 5 12:24:08 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:24:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] freebsd ami's? or xen disks? Message-ID: <5481F848.3060400@kateley.com> Hey, Does anyone happen to run freebsd on xen or use ec2? I just ran into this weird thing that the disks come up as xbd, but not sure what kind of disks they are? can't see them with camcontrol. linda From ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 12:36:19 2014 From: ryan.c.dunlop at gmail.com (Ryan Dunlop) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 12:36:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] freebsd ami's? or xen disks? In-Reply-To: <5481F848.3060400@kateley.com> References: <5481F848.3060400@kateley.com> Message-ID: aren't they xen block device naming? Block Device Naming Xen hijacks the Linux block device major/minor numbering scheme and stuffs it into the block devices available for the DomU's. So if you use "sda1" for your Xen jail, The Linux Xen DomU block device driver would hijack the major number from the scsi device driver and use it. FreeBSD/Xen used to simply create an "xbd" device with the raw device number after it. This changed recently (thanks to dfr?) to somewhat emulate what Linux was doing. From what I can tell, using hdX and partitions (hdXa, hdXb, etc) will result in the relevant ATA devices being created in the kernel (ad0s1, ad1s1, etc.) Simiarly for SCSI - sdX became daX in FreeBSD. To get "xbd" (which I was using to make sure I had separately named devices that absolutely didn't look like they should deserve a normal DOS label) I need to use the major "202" (0xCA) with unit numbers being minor >> 4. So 0xCA00 is xbd0, 0xCA10 is xbd1, 0xCA20 is xbd2, etc. This gives me xbd0 -> xbd15 before I run out of "xbd" slices. (Actually that isn't true but I won't assume I'll get any more. Those who are interested should read sys/dev/xen/blkfront/blkfront.c:blkfront_vdevice_to_unit() to see.) On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Linda Kateley wrote: > Hey, > > Does anyone happen to run freebsd on xen or use ec2? I just ran into this > weird thing that the disks come up as xbd, but not sure what kind of disks > they are? can't see them with camcontrol. > > linda > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkateley at kateley.com Fri Dec 5 13:06:16 2014 From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:06:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] freebsd ami's? or xen disks? In-Reply-To: References: <5481F848.3060400@kateley.com> Message-ID: <54820228.1070208@kateley.com> On 12/5/14, 12:36 PM, Ryan Dunlop wrote: Yea I read this and was hoping they would import as ata devices.. but i can't see them atacontrol either. > aren't they xen block device naming? > > > Block Device Naming > > Xen hijacks the Linux block device major/minor numbering scheme and > stuffs it into the block devices available for the DomU's. So if you > use "sda1" for your Xen jail, The Linux Xen DomU block device driver > would hijack the major number from the scsi device driver and use it. > > FreeBSD/Xen used to simply create an "xbd" device with the raw device > number after it. This changed recently (thanks to dfr?) to somewhat > emulate what Linux was doing. From what I can tell, using hdX and > partitions (hdXa, hdXb, etc) will result in the relevant ATA devices > being created in the kernel (ad0s1, ad1s1, etc.) Simiarly for SCSI - > sdX became daX in FreeBSD. > > To get "xbd" (which I was using to make sure I had separately named > devices that absolutely didn't look like they should deserve a normal > DOS label) I need to use the major "202" (0xCA) with unit numbers > being minor >> 4. So 0xCA00 is xbd0, 0xCA10 is xbd1, 0xCA20 is xbd2, > etc. This gives me xbd0 -> xbd15 before I run out of "xbd" slices. > (Actually that isn't true but I won't assume I'll get any more. Those > who are interested should read > sys/dev/xen/blkfront/blkfront.c:blkfront_vdevice_to_unit() to see.) > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Linda Kateley > wrote: > > Hey, > > Does anyone happen to run freebsd on xen or use ec2? I just ran > into this weird thing that the disks come up as xbd, but not sure > what kind of disks they are? can't see them with camcontrol. > > linda > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Dec 4 21:01:17 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 21:01:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What do you think is causing FreeBSD to not install properly? Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:14:18 -0600 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 years old. HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) Gigabit Ethernet $220 or best offer. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Fri Dec 5 13:45:09 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 13:45:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <306B7230-ABED-489F-91AF-2C2DC4BBCF4F@cwis.biz> Please make a new thread. > On Dec 4, 2014, at 9:01 PM, paul g wrote: > > What do you think is causing FreeBSD to not install properly? > > Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2014 20:14:18 -0600 > From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: [tclug-list] HP desktop for sale > > A number of months ago I switched from using Linux to > FreeBSD for hosting my site. Since then I've tried a number > of times to install FreeBSD 10.1 and 11 on the following > computer without success. In the past I've run Fedora > and Arch Linux on this computer. Right now it has a > recent version of Debian on it. The machine is about 3 > years old. > > HP Pavilion quad-core desktop. > > http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-2400-Quad-Core-Processor-Cache/dp/B004EBUXIA > > 8GB DDR3, 1333MHz > 1TB hard drive (Hitachi HDS72101) > Gigabit Ethernet > > $220 or best offer. > > > -- > Brian > Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. > http://webEbenezer.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Fri Dec 5 14:58:09 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 14:58:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU Message-ID: Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 4MB cache - Intel Core? 2 Duo 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual channel memory support Chipsets: Q35 North Bridge - Intel 82Q35 Graphics and Memory Controller Hub (GMCH) ICH9 South Bridge - 82801IO ICH9DO I/O Controller Hub SMSC SCH5617 LPC Super IO Winbond TPM 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual channel memory support Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet Intel 82566DM Ethernet controller Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 15-pin VGA output on planar Uses Intel Dynamic Video Memory Technology (DVMT) I looked at Intel's website VT-x support page ---> http://ark.intel.com/Products/VirtualizationTechnology It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced there are options: Intel (R) Virtualization Technology Enable TxT Enable VT-d Could I possible install Xen on my computer and Host a Linux os under Xen pretty easily? Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. paul g -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kc0iog at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 21:40:29 2014 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <--- http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > there are options: > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > Enable TxT > Enable VT-d Paul, Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology I would be wary of enabling it. > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.a.frisk at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 22:01:33 2014 From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Upcoming IEEE Event Message-ID: Dear Penguins Unbound members, Chuck Cole has asked me to share this invitation with our group. It's a nice opportunity to see what is going on here in the Twin Cities. If you have any questions, please contact Chuck Cole ( cncole at earthlink.net ) or Bruce Hanson ( listed in the event below ). Attention members, we have two meetings in early December: *A panel discussion on Home Automation* (rescheduled) and a meeting co-hosted with Arrow Electronics on *The Internet of Things*. On December 8th, at the Southdale Library in Edina, MN, in the Helen Young Room, *A Panel Discussion on Home Automation*. There will be three IEEE panelists discussing how they implement their home automation systems. For more information check out: https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/30489 . On December 11th at the Hyatt Regency Minneapolis, in association with Arrow Electronics, a day-long session on *The Internet of Things--Immersions* where you will have an opportunity to learn more about small embedded systems talking with a database to achieve distributed data logging, process control, security and cloud participation in distributed systems! The Keynote speaker is Sam Schmidt. Arrow engineers joined forces with the industry to modify a race car to be driven by individuals living with quadriplegia. Join Indy Racing League legend, Sam Schmidt, for a personal and moving story about how machine to machine (M2M) and the latest in IoT technology helped put Sam back in the car and what it means for the future of transportation. For more information check out: https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/30553 . Register immediately for free admission, after December 1st there will be a charge. The TC Computer Society is looking for new officers for the upcoming year. If you are interested in participating, please contact Bruce Hanson, Chair at tc-computer at ieee.org. Bruce Hanson, Chair, Twin Cities IEEE Computer Society, tc-computer at ieee.or g IEEE Twin Cities Computer Chapter: http://www.tc-ieee.org/index.php/local-chaptersaffinity-groups/computer.html Manage your IEEE Communications Preferences: https://www.ieee.org/profile/commprefs/showcommPrefpage.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Fri Dec 5 22:33:35 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:33:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thank you for your time. Your response is appreciated. Thank you for you time, paul g Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 From: kc0iog at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > there are options: > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > Enable TxT > Enable VT-d Paul, Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology I would be wary of enabling it. > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Fri Dec 5 23:23:35 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 23:23:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thank you for your time Brian, and I do apologize / My next question after Xen is loading is going to be exactly that; all about Xen I guess. Ya that TxT implemtation--> although it's worth using to help others. Seems like a GPG-layer for bios implementation; something or other. Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 From: kc0iog at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > there are options: > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > Enable TxT > Enable VT-d Paul, Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology I would be wary of enabling it. > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sat Dec 6 19:40:30 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 19:40:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I flashed the BIOS with the latest release for the machine to version: 2RKT64BUS via the link below. http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre-m-series-desktops/thinkcentre-m57p under the 'Advanced' tab in the BIOS setup utility the following options: Enable VT-d Enable TxT No longer appear. I should have thought to update the BIOS as soon as I got the machine. This was really nice able to download the update right off the website in .iso format. Thanks! Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 From: kc0iog at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > there are options: > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > Enable TxT > Enable VT-d Paul, Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology I would be wary of enabling it. > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Sat Dec 6 20:07:43 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 20:07:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: References: <, > Message-ID: <9E50ED3E-29D4-4214-B0AC-A421DEF0CD7E@cwis.biz> What do the release notes from your BIOS update state? Usually those things are covered in there (adds, removes, fixes). > On Dec 6, 2014, at 7:40 PM, paul g wrote: > > I flashed the BIOS with the latest release for the machine to version: 2RKT64BUS via the link below. > > http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre-m-series-desktops/thinkcentre-m57p > > under the 'Advanced' tab in the BIOS setup utility the following options: > > Enable VT-d > Enable TxT > > No longer appear. > > I should have thought to update the BIOS as soon as I got the machine. This was really nice able > to download the update right off the website in .iso format. > > Thanks! > > > Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 > From: kc0iog at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g > wrote: > > > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > > > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. > > > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > > there are options: > > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > > > Enable TxT > > Enable VT-d > > Paul, > > Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. > > Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology > > I would be wary of enabling it. > > > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. > > I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Sat Dec 6 20:08:16 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 20:08:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: <9E50ED3E-29D4-4214-B0AC-A421DEF0CD7E@cwis.biz> References: <, > <9E50ED3E-29D4-4214-B0AC-A421DEF0CD7E@cwis.biz> Message-ID: Note: I do not want to know what it says but I want you to read it. Release notes are very important in all systems not just BIOS updates. > On Dec 6, 2014, at 8:07 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > What do the release notes from your BIOS update state? Usually those things are covered in there (adds, removes, fixes). > >> On Dec 6, 2014, at 7:40 PM, paul g > wrote: >> >> I flashed the BIOS with the latest release for the machine to version: 2RKT64BUS via the link below. >> >> http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre-m-series-desktops/thinkcentre-m57p >> >> under the 'Advanced' tab in the BIOS setup utility the following options: >> >> Enable VT-d >> Enable TxT >> >> No longer appear. >> >> I should have thought to update the BIOS as soon as I got the machine. This was really nice able >> to download the update right off the website in .iso format. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 >> From: kc0iog at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU >> >> On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g > wrote: >> >> > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 >> > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 >> > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 >> >> > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x >> > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. >> >> > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced >> > there are options: >> > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology >> > >> > Enable TxT >> > Enable VT-d >> >> Paul, >> >> Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. >> >> Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology >> >> I would be wary of enabling it. >> >> > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. >> >> I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sethmiller.sm at gmail.com Sat Dec 6 23:23:52 2014 From: sethmiller.sm at gmail.com (Seth Miller) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 23:23:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, You can run a hypervisor like Xen without enabling these options. You will just be limited to 32-bit guest OS's. Seth Miller On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre > M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <--- > http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > 4MB cache - Intel Core? 2 Duo > 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual channel memory > support > > Chipsets: > > - Q35 North Bridge - Intel 82Q35 Graphics and Memory Controller Hub > (GMCH) > - ICH9 South Bridge - 82801IO ICH9DO I/O Controller Hub > - SMSC SCH5617 LPC Super IO > - Winbond TPM > > > > 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual channel memory > support > > > > - Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet > - Intel 82566DM Ethernet controller > > > > Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 > > - 15-pin VGA output on planar > - Uses Intel Dynamic Video Memory Technology (DVMT) > > > > I looked at Intel's website VT-x support page ---> > http://ark.intel.com/Products/VirtualizationTechnology > > > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the > computer. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > > > there are options: > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > Enable TxT > Enable VT-d > > > Could I possible install Xen on my computer and Host a Linux os under Xen > pretty easily? > > > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections > of the Lenovo. > > > > paul g > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.a.frisk at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 11:50:37 2014 From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 11:50:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Informal Gathering Message-ID: All are welcome to join us at the year end gathering of the Penguins Unbound group on December 9th. We are meeting at Stout's Pub (1611 Larpenteur Ave W) right across the street from TIES. I'll be there at 6PM and the event will go until 8:30PM. http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenlynes at usa.net Sun Dec 7 20:07:02 2014 From: kenlynes at usa.net (Kenneth Lynes) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 20:07:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 120, Issue 12 Message-ID: <327sLHcgc0752S08.1418004422@web08.cms.usa.net> Gosh I hope that is not the final meeting for tclug! I seem to have some kind of conflict lately for getting to these gatherings. Tuesdays always seems to be a bad day for me as I bowl or have meetings. I hoping with all I hear in the newspapers about Ties lately that there will continue to be more meetings at Ties in the future. Ken Lynes ------ Original Message ------ Received: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 12:00:20 PM CST From: tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 120, Issue 12 > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU (Seth Miller) > 2. Penguins Unbound Informal Gathering (John Frisk) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 23:23:52 -0600 > From: Seth Miller > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of > CPU > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Paul, > > You can run a hypervisor like Xen without enabling these options. You will > just be limited to 32-bit guest OS's. > > Seth Miller > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > > > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre > > M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > > > > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <--- > > http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > > > > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > > 4MB cache - Intel Core? 2 Duo > > 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual channel memory > > support > > > > Chipsets: > > > > - Q35 North Bridge - Intel 82Q35 Graphics and Memory Controller Hub > > (GMCH) > > - ICH9 South Bridge - 82801IO ICH9DO I/O Controller Hub > > - SMSC SCH5617 LPC Super IO > > - Winbond TPM > > > > > > > > 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual channel memory > > support > > > > > > > > - Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet > > - Intel 82566DM Ethernet controller > > > > > > > > Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 > > > > - 15-pin VGA output on planar > > - Uses Intel Dynamic Video Memory Technology (DVMT) > > > > > > > > I looked at Intel's website VT-x support page ---> > > http://ark.intel.com/Products/VirtualizationTechnology > > > > > > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the > > computer. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > > > > > > there are options: > > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > > > Enable TxT > > Enable VT-d > > > > > > Could I possible install Xen on my computer and Host a Linux os under Xen > > pretty easily? > > > > > > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections > > of the Lenovo. > > > > > > > > paul g > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 11:50:37 -0600 > From: John Frisk > To: penguinsunbound-announce at lists.ties2.net, Ubuntu Minnesota Local > Community Team , TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Informal Gathering > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > All are welcome to join us at the year end gathering of the Penguins > Unbound group on December 9th. We are meeting at Stout's Pub (1611 > Larpenteur Ave W) right across the street from TIES. I'll be there at 6PM > and the event will go until 8:30PM. > > http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 120, Issue 12 > ******************************************* From cncole at earthlink.net Sun Dec 7 20:29:17 2014 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 20:29:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 120, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <327sLHcgc0752S08.1418004422@web08.cms.usa.net> References: <327sLHcgc0752S08.1418004422@web08.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <2018D05AE83742CC899BB40051B7C699@d830a> Penguins Unbound is not TCLUG though some attend things run by either one. Both are Linux interest however. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Lynes > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 8:07 PM > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 120, Issue 12 > > Gosh I hope that is not the final meeting for tclug! I seem > to have some kind > of conflict lately for getting to these gatherings. Tuesdays > always seems to > be a bad day for me as I bowl or have meetings. I hoping with > all I hear in > the newspapers about Ties lately that there will continue to > be more meetings > at Ties in the future. > Ken Lynes > > ------ Original Message ------ > Received: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 12:00:20 PM CST > From: tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: tclug-list Digest, Vol 120, Issue 12 > > > Send tclug-list mailing list submissions to > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > tclug-list-owner at mn-linux.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of tclug-list digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU > (Seth Miller) > > 2. Penguins Unbound Informal Gathering (John Frisk) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 23:23:52 -0600 > > From: Seth Miller > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of > > CPU > > Message-ID: > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Paul, > > > > You can run a hypervisor like Xen without enabling these > options. You will > > just be limited to 32-bit guest OS's. > > > > Seth Miller > > > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a > Lenovo ThinkCentre > > > M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > > > > > > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <--- > > > http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > > > > > > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > > > 4MB cache - Intel Core? 2 Duo > > > 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual > channel memory > > > support > > > > > > Chipsets: > > > > > > - Q35 North Bridge - Intel 82Q35 Graphics and Memory > Controller Hub > > > (GMCH) > > > - ICH9 South Bridge - 82801IO ICH9DO I/O Controller Hub > > > - SMSC SCH5617 LPC Super IO > > > - Winbond TPM > > > > > > > > > > > > 533MHz / 667MHz / 800MHz DDR2 (Double Data Rate) dual > channel memory > > > support > > > > > > > > > > > > - Integrated Intel Gigabit Ethernet > > > - Intel 82566DM Ethernet controller > > > > > > > > > > > > Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 > > > > > > - 15-pin VGA output on planar > > > - Uses Intel Dynamic Video Memory Technology (DVMT) > > > > > > > > > > > > I looked at Intel's website VT-x support page ---> > > > http://ark.intel.com/Products/VirtualizationTechnology > > > > > > > > > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in > fact support VT-x > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------- > > > > > > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] > <---appears on > the > > > computer. > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------- > > > > > > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > > > > > > > > > there are options: > > > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > > > > > Enable TxT > > > Enable VT-d > > > > > > > > > Could I possible install Xen on my computer and Host a > Linux os under Xen > > > pretty easily? > > > > > > > > > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the > Bios selections > > > of the Lenovo. > > > > > > > > > > > > paul g > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > 20141206/29eb7f99/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 11:50:37 -0600 > > From: John Frisk > > To: penguinsunbound-announce at lists.ties2.net, Ubuntu > Minnesota Local > > Community Team , TCLUG > Mailing List > > > > Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound Informal Gathering > > Message-ID: > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > All are welcome to join us at the year end gathering of the Penguins > > Unbound group on December 9th. We are meeting at Stout's Pub (1611 > > Larpenteur Ave W) right across the street from TIES. I'll > be there at 6PM > > and the event will go until 8:30PM. > > > > http://www.penguinsunbound.com/ > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > 20141207/d5da002a/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 120, Issue 12 > > ******************************************* > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Dec 7 22:32:17 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 22:32:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: <9E50ED3E-29D4-4214-B0AC-A421DEF0CD7E@cwis.biz> References: <, >, , , <9E50ED3E-29D4-4214-B0AC-A421DEF0CD7E@cwis.biz> Message-ID: The computer had firmware# 2RKT39A prior: Summary of changes ================== General Information: 2RJTxxA is the flash diskette level. 2RJ2xxA is the supplemental programs / information diskette 2RKTxxA is the binary image level. (BIOS) NOTE: All changes carry forward. That is, if a change is added in 01, it is also in 02, 03 etc. Changes for 2RKTxxA/2RJTxxA: Changes for 2RKT64B/2RJT64B: - Improve boot time 2RKT64A/2RJT64A: - Updates CPU microcode. 2RKT63A/2RJT63A: - Fixes where the system hang when plug AMD FirePro 2270. 2RKT62A/2RJT62A: - Fixes the Serial Port and Parallel Port are shown in the device manager after resume from S3. 2RKT60A/2RJT60A - Fixes the problem where the System will not boot with an ipod attached to it. - Fixes the 1962 POST error issue RKT61A/2RJT61A - Security update 2RKT59A/2RJT59A - Fixes VTD issue 2RKT57A/2RJT57A - Adds four displays with special video card - Fixes the problem where winphlash tool shows 149 error after resume from S3 2RKT55A/2RJT55A - Fixes the problem with SCSI card - Adds keyboard buffer security hole 2RKT54A/2RJT54A - Fixes the problem where WOL takes the wrong boot sequence, if entered from pop menu - Fixes the BitLocker 0162 error issue - Updates CPU thermal offset 2RKT53A/2RJT53A - Fixes the Audio Support status in system Summary to show Audio Support [enable/disable] item - Fixes the problem of timeout in Finger print keyboard - Fixes the problem where USB HDD could not boot with fat16 format and 50M partition - Fixes the problem where POST shows 0135 error message 2RKT52A/2RJT52A - Fixes the WOL hang up issue 2RKT51A/2RJT51A - Fixes the problem where winphlash tool can flash corrupted BIOS - Fixes the issue where fingerprint application shows no 'power on security' item under Windows XP - Updates the winphlash tool to 1.6.9.0 2RKT50A/2RJT50A - Temporarily removes the /MB update bootblock function 2RKT49A/2RJT49A - Sets the default value of Power saving item to Max performance - Adds the solution to fix system hang issue with SOL/IDER and fingerprint Keyboard - Fixes the problem where /MB parameter would not update the BootBlock - Updates CPU OFFSET Table 2RKT48A/2RJT48A - Adds the missed file of AMT Auto-provision - Adds the micro code for new CPU (M1010677.TXT, M0110676.TXT, M0110661.TXT) - Fixes the solution for FSR 4D Optical Mouse - Updates the CPU OFFSET Table 2RKT47A/2RJT47A - Fixes a problem where the system hangs when boot with PXE after WOL - Adds the AMT 3.2 support - Adds Cardbus support 2RKT46A/2RJT46A - Adds abort PXE function - Fixes the error in POST when VT-D is enabled - Fixes the problem where POST hangs with VT-D enable and with 8G memory - Fixes the problem where save and exit setup needs too much time - Fixes the problem where POST shows CMOS error when update WHQL TCG solution 2RKT45A/2RJT45A - Fixes the problem where ODD cannot be detected occaionally - Fixes 0162 error if there is a Bitlocker in the operating system - Fixes the issue where WHQL TCG integrated test failed - Adds the onboard GBE disabled function - Adds the PXE enable/disable item in network menu - Adds the AMT auto-provision solution 2RKT44A/2RJT44A - Fixes the WOL issue - Updates thermal table for Yorkfield CPU - Fixes the problem where the ISCSI card works abnormally 2RKT43A/2RJT43A - Removes the wrong branch which caused ASF force boot packet not to be parsed 2RKT42A/2RJT42A - Adds an Onboard Lan Disabled/Enabled function 2RKT41A/2RJT41A - Fixes the problem where, when using SRCMOS.exe tool to restore CMOS map, the system displays nothing and becomes idle for 4 to 5 hours in DOS - Fixes the problem where the USB Card reader does not recognize the memory card in DOS - Fixes the problem where wrong branch causes ASF force boot packet not to get parsed 2RKT40A/2RJT40A - Fixes the problem in system summary where the value of 'Used by devices' is the same when VGA card is plugged in or not. It appears there is a # 2Rk64B update to increase the boot speed but unless I am operating windows I can not execute it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 20:07:43 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU What do the release notes from your BIOS update state? Usually those things are covered in there (adds, removes, fixes). On Dec 6, 2014, at 7:40 PM, paul g wrote:I flashed the BIOS with the latest release for the machine to version: 2RKT64BUS via the link below. http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre-m-series-desktops/thinkcentre-m57p under the 'Advanced' tab in the BIOS setup utility the following options: Enable VT-d Enable TxT No longer appear. I should have thought to update the BIOS as soon as I got the machine. This was really nice able to download the update right off the website in .iso format. Thanks! Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 From: kc0iog at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > there are options: > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > Enable TxT > Enable VT-d Paul, Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology I would be wary of enabling it. > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Sun Dec 7 22:41:53 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 22:41:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU In-Reply-To: References: <, >, , , <9E50ED3E-29D4-4214-B0AC-A421DEF0CD7E@cwis.biz>, Message-ID: Understood and thank you for bringing that up I did read through the release notes briefly prior to installing the latest version. Some of which I do not have very much understanding of. Maybe I should have held off and researched more than I did. Cause now with sysadmin password set and only hdd selected for boot I get a beep with an error message ---->0662 Error: Configuration has changed. Then resumes booting prompting for password etc. If I revert back to the standard options for the # 2RKT64A no error message shows up. Error 0662 still shows with warm reboot. Looks like I need to do some more research. Thanks, From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 20:08:16 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU Note: I do not want to know what it says but I want you to read it. Release notes are very important in all systems not just BIOS updates. On Dec 6, 2014, at 8:07 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:What do the release notes from your BIOS update state? Usually those things are covered in there (adds, removes, fixes). On Dec 6, 2014, at 7:40 PM, paul g wrote:I flashed the BIOS with the latest release for the machine to version: 2RKT64BUS via the link below. http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/desktops-and-all-in-ones/thinkcentre-m-series-desktops/thinkcentre-m57p under the 'Advanced' tab in the BIOS setup utility the following options: Enable VT-d Enable TxT No longer appear. I should have thought to update the BIOS as soon as I got the machine. This was really nice able to download the update right off the website in .iso format. Thanks! Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 21:40:29 -0600 From: kc0iog at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Using full virtualization capabilities of CPU On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:58 PM, paul g wrote: > Hello, I recently purchased a new/used computer it's a Lenovo ThinkCentre M57p. Model# MT-M 9088-A83 > Some critical specifications for the unit are listed below. <---http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd001456 > Intel Core? 2 Duo processor -E6550 > It looks like the Core 2 Duo CPU E-6000 series does in fact support VT-x > terminal command ---> cat /proc/cpuinfo <---flags [vmx] <---appears on the computer. > When I enter the system Bios --> Setup Utility --> Advanced > there are options: > Intel (R) Virtualization Technology > > Enable TxT > Enable VT-d Paul, Enabling VT-d in the BIOS should give you what you want to run Xen (or any hypervisor) on this system. I have a Lenovo M57p myself and run various hypervisors on it without issue. Beware of TxT. To be honest I had never heard of this, but after reading about it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Execution_Technology I would be wary of enabling it. > Cause I don't see any options for GVT/d/g/s listed in the Bios selections of the Lenovo. I'm not sure where this requirement came from. VT-d is what you want, so if it's enabled, you should be good to go. Brian _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From canito at dalan.us Tue Dec 9 16:30:59 2014 From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 16:30:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Mint, A Success Story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20141209163059.Horde.cMNKKBHcRb-xni9PGpzJCA9@mail.dalan.us> Quoting Justin Krejci : > I've been using Linux Mint since I was forced off of Ubuntu by having no > interest in using Unity or Gnome3 for my desktop experience. For a > release or two on Ubunutu I was able to use "fallback mode" on the > desktop environment and it would give me Gnome2 but they eventually > pulled that out entirely so I tried a bunch of distros (including > Kubuntu) and settled on Mint with Mate to keep the same general > look/feel as gnome2 and since it is Ubuntu based I have the same tools > and packages generally available. So I've been trucking along for a > while and things generally just work. I am long past the time of wanting > to play around and tinker with every little thing so there is not much > excitement for me there anymore to explore a distro. So when things just > work, that is one of my major measures of success. When things don't > work and it takes very little time/effort to fix, that is also pretty > fantastic in my eyes. > > I just recently upgraded my workstation from Linux Mint 15 (MATE 64-bit) > to Linux Mint 17 (MATE 64-bit) so I can be on the LTS release. The > upgrade went pretty smooth, having multiple hard drives and partitions I > was able to maintain access to my previous Mint 15 install while keeping > /home identical across both. Turns out I did not need bother with that > as everything worked out well. I only really needed to re-install the > apps that I use, for which the main ones I keep a list on a wiki page as > well as notes and other useful hints to remind myself on certain /etc/ > config file settings, iptables rules, etc. > > After running for a couple of weeks or maybe it's been a month I decided > to do a similar upgrade for my laptop but I did not intend to maintain > the original Mint 15 "/" partition and just overwrite it due to disk > space constraints. I also keep /home on a separate partition so I did > not have to worry about that data or the multitude of user-specific > settings. I can't believe how smooth the upgrade process was. Absolutely > no glitches or issues. When I booted up my desktop screen looked exactly > the same as before (thanks to /home being untouched); I just needed to > go through the same re-install apps process and re-work a few /etc > config files again. Now when I say "upgrade" I mean a fresh install in > both cases of my $dayjob workstation and my laptop. > > I don't know what else to say but for normal desktop power-user use, I > have basically nothing to complain about when it comes to Mint. Also a > few months back I decided to give back and setup a public Mint mirror at > $dayjob. So now I have even have local LAN access to packages, updates, > ISOs, etc for Mint (as well as Ubuntu and CentOS). > > In any case I give a +1 for Mint all the way. Thanks, Justin. It kinda sucks for me that to this day I have not been able to get over Gentoo since this is what I learned on. I've had good success with Fedora as a desktop, but it doesn't have the newest packages that I read people are using to play video games with or certain packages for audio/video playback. I know a lot of people have switched to Arch from Gentoo, and it may be a pretty cool distro, but I could never warm up to it and stopped using it. For the time being I guess I will continue using Fedora as a desktop and FreeBSD for certain server applications. But I should at least consider looking Mint. SDA- From samael.anon at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 10:46:21 2014 From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael Anon) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:46:21 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] BRIAN WOOD, PLEASE READ THIS (was: Re: HP desktop for sale) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: oh my On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 12:23 PM, wrote: > Hey Brian. Believe it or not, this is a 100% serious message. > > Look, you've been trying to sell that phoen for what, a year or so now? > Nobody here is going to buy it, no matter the price. So here's what I want > you to do. > > There are plenty of places that'll take use cellphone donations. They give > them to people who really need one, like women's shelters and the like. > That phone of yours could potentially save a life, or at the very least > make someone feel safe. > > Surely that's worth more than a mythical $15 you're never going to get. > > Please just donate that phone to someone who will actually truly > appreciate just having it. > > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2014, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2014, Jeff Chapin wrote: >> >> I'll give you $0 to stop spamming the list with that phone. >>> >> >> I will personally DOUBLE that amount if you stop with that phone. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dan.Gawarecki at entrustdatacard.com Wed Dec 10 16:25:51 2014 From: Dan.Gawarecki at entrustdatacard.com (Dan Gawarecki) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 22:25:51 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations Message-ID: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> In reading recent "Linux Mint" article by Justin Krejci , I came across his statement of: . . . ones I keep a list on a wiki page as well as notes and other useful hints to remind myself on . . . I'm using Linux Mint 17 (KDE 32-bit) myself (same Unity complaint about Ubuntu), and would like to run a wiki too, and so I am soliciting recommendations Justin or others have for Wiki software, preferably something on the light-weight side? Thanks, Dan Gawarecki ( gav - a - ret - ski ) Sr. QA Engineer dan_gawarecki at datacard.com | www.datacard.com From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 19:02:08 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 19:02:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations In-Reply-To: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> References: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> Message-ID: Dan, this message may be a bit out of place but 'CCC' and 'ADP' estimating software for LinuxMint in a .deb format packages would be something people could seriously use. http://ccc.cccis.com/ http://www.audatex.us/index.asp I was thinking about asking this question outright on the list but since your a SR. QA Engineer I figured I would post this. my apologies, paul g > From: Dan.Gawarecki at entrustdatacard.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 22:25:51 +0000 > Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations > > In reading recent "Linux Mint" article by Justin Krejci , I came across his statement of: > > . . . ones I keep a list on a wiki page as well as notes and other useful hints to remind myself on . . . > > I'm using Linux Mint 17 (KDE 32-bit) myself (same Unity complaint about Ubuntu), and would like to run a wiki too, and so I am soliciting recommendations Justin or others have for Wiki software, preferably something on the light-weight side? > > Thanks, > Dan Gawarecki ( gav - a - ret - ski ) > Sr. QA Engineer > dan_gawarecki at datacard.com | www.datacard.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From canito at dalan.us Thu Dec 11 19:29:45 2014 From: canito at dalan.us (canito at dalan.us) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 19:29:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations In-Reply-To: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> References: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> Message-ID: <20141211192945.Horde.ftvbt42tAiDpg-iFMc8upw8@mail.dalan.us> Quoting Dan Gawarecki : > In reading recent "Linux Mint" article by Justin Krejci > , I came across his statement of: > > . . . ones I keep a list on a wiki page as well as notes and other > useful hints to remind myself on . . . > > I'm using Linux Mint 17 (KDE 32-bit) myself (same Unity complaint > about Ubuntu), and would like to run a wiki too, and so I am > soliciting recommendations Justin or others have for Wiki software, > preferably something on the light-weight side? > > Thanks, > Dan Gawarecki ( gav - a - ret - ski ) > Sr. QA Engineer > dan_gawarecki at datacard.com | www.datacard.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list I have been using dokuWiki for many years. Although I don't if it comes packaged for Mint/Ubuntu? Trying to remember how I got it set up for the first time many many years ago at an old employer; whether I was using lighttpd or...? Also using it for the same purpose Justin mentioned. I believe all you do is download the package and untar it onto /var/www/html/ It is light weight and it comes with many plugins. https://www.dokuwiki.org/dokuwiki Thanks, SDA From chapinjeff at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 20:08:38 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:08:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> Message-ID: I think you forgot to include the question. On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 7:02 PM, paul g wrote: > Dan, this message may be a bit out of place but 'CCC' and 'ADP' estimating > software for LinuxMint in a .deb format packages would be something people > could seriously use. > > http://ccc.cccis.com/ > > http://www.audatex.us/index.asp > > I was thinking about asking this question outright on the list but since > your a SR. QA Engineer I figured I would post this. > > my apologies, > > paul g > > > >> From: Dan.Gawarecki at entrustdatacard.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 22:25:51 +0000 >> Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations > >> >> In reading recent "Linux Mint" article by Justin Krejci >> , I came across his statement of: >> >> . . . ones I keep a list on a wiki page as well as notes and other useful >> hints to remind myself on . . . >> >> I'm using Linux Mint 17 (KDE 32-bit) myself (same Unity complaint about >> Ubuntu), and would like to run a wiki too, and so I am soliciting >> recommendations Justin or others have for Wiki software, preferably >> something on the light-weight side? >> >> Thanks, >> Dan Gawarecki ( gav - a - ret - ski ) >> Sr. QA Engineer >> dan_gawarecki at datacard.com | www.datacard.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired From pj.world at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 20:29:47 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:29:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com>, , Message-ID: Jeff & Dan & others: my apologies for not outlying my question correctly. A really really huge thing would be the ability to use CCC & ADP / either or with a Linux based operating system wishfully with .deb frontend format so the end user utilizing the collision software once and for all is not required the use of virtualization to a Windows based platform by any means. I have tried to contact each of the preceding company's involving this question with no report back from either corporation. Overall: My thoughts would be please anyone out there with the skill you all have help to develop Linux development by assisting in some way the ability to use this CCC or ADP software on non Windows based platforms. <----is it possible? They want the user to pay each month for the software thats fine! Again my apologies for asking to many questions. paul g -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From escargo at skypoint.com Thu Dec 11 20:27:44 2014 From: escargo at skypoint.com (David S. Cargo) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 20:27:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations In-Reply-To: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> References: <56a4b5452805423f9f0c41d42be44d07@pmspex01.corporate.datacard.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 22:25:51 +0000, you wrote: >I'm using Linux Mint 17 ..., and would like to run a wiki too, >and so I am soliciting recommendations Justin or others have for >Wiki software.... I'm interested in answers to this as well, although I'm looking for a wiki to use as a multiuser CMS on a domain hosted at a budget ISP, probably on Linux. One wiki on my list (because one instance is used for a similar purpose), is PmWiki. Some potentially useful references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_wiki http://www.lifehack.org/articles/technology/the-quick-dirty-guide-to-personal-wikis.html Let us know what you pick. escargo From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Thu Dec 11 21:27:17 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 21:27:17 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] flashing cursors weaken ssh/vnc? Message-ID: a security advisory i read within the last couple months was all about how someone on a cafe wifi could fairly easily get into supposedly secure connections by repeatedly injecting crafted contents and thus cracking the cipher, something like that, can anyone clarify this with a pointer? not sure but i think ssh was involved. which got me to thinking, couldn't predictably repeating contents, eg a flashing cursor via ssh/vnc, also similarly provide a fairly easily crackable sequence, with no need for an observer to even inject anything? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Fri Dec 12 08:03:49 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:03:49 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] flashing cursors weaken ssh/vnc? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have enough sample data you could, in theory, crack the cipher. So the answer to your question is, technically, yes. But we have rotating keys in WPA/WPA2 encryption now and this was far more prevalent when we used WEP encryption. Cursor flashing: I believe this is done on the client side. I often have a flashing cursor and no terminal session when my WAN connection fails and I have an SSH session open. ? Ryan > On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:27 PM, gregrwm wrote: > > a security advisory i read within the last couple months was all about how someone on a cafe wifi could fairly easily get into supposedly secure connections by repeatedly injecting crafted contents and thus cracking the cipher, something like that, can anyone clarify this with a pointer? not sure but i think ssh was involved. which got me to thinking, couldn't predictably repeating contents, eg a flashing cursor via ssh/vnc, also similarly provide a fairly easily crackable sequence, with no need for an observer to even inject anything? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Fri Dec 12 11:02:44 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:02:44 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] flashing cursors weaken ssh/vnc? Message-ID: i commonly run vnc via ssh tunnel (whether or not via wifi). flashing cursors abound, eg firefox inputs, gmail compose, libreoffice, xterm, all within vnc, any of which may be left flashing for minutes or hours, which could, i'm thinking, be well more than enough of a predictably repeating sequence to crack ssh. for an even more rapidly repeating sequence consider the libreoffice marching cell outline after a cell copy. how often does/ought ssh change keys? perhaps every few seconds (unless no activity)? perhaps apps should shutdown cursor flashing or pattern marching without seeing clear indication the user is watching like large mouse movement. lots of apps to chase down tho. perhaps vnc ought have an option to shutdown output while there's no indication the user is watching. On 12 December 2014 at 08:03, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > If you have enough sample data you could, in theory, crack the cipher. So > the answer to your question is, technically, yes. > But we have rotating keys in WPA/WPA2 encryption now and this was far more > prevalent when we used WEP encryption. > > Cursor flashing: I believe this is done on the client side. I often have > a flashing cursor and no terminal session when my WAN connection fails and > I have an SSH session open. > > > > On Dec 11, 2014, at 9:27 PM, gregrwm wrote: > > a security advisory i read within the last couple months was all about > how someone on a cafe wifi could fairly easily get into supposedly secure > connections by repeatedly injecting crafted contents and thus cracking the > cipher, something like that, can anyone clarify this with a pointer? not > sure but i think ssh was involved. which got me to thinking, couldn't > predictably repeating contents, eg a flashing cursor via ssh/vnc, also > similarly provide a fairly easily crackable sequence, with no need for an > observer to even inject anything? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n0nas at amsat.org Fri Dec 12 12:36:50 2014 From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:36:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] flashing cursors weaken ssh/vnc? Message-ID: I believe that cursor flash is a character attribute that is sent with the original stream, kind of like bold or underline. It is NOT a continuous data flow. I believe the security exploit was looking for more than just a few characters within a packet to be repeated, I think they were looking for a small but repeated packet with a "fixed" phrase. If you check the most recent versions of Firefox, and possibly other browsers, you will find that SSLv3 has been disabled and only the TLS protocols are now allowed. That is because there was a bug in the SSLv3 protocol such that it was using a bad algorithm and could be compromised. See Episode 478 "Poodle Bites" and more in episode 485. I don't remember the full details of the SSLv3 problem, but I regularly find that the Security Now podcast tends to give the most complete and in depth explanations of what is happening in computer security. They tend to be much more in-depth and geeky propeller head level than the other podcasts I've listened to. If you want the de-hyped in-depth version of the latest security holes, this is a good place to look. I'm listening to the latest podcast now to find out what the Turla backdoor for Linux is.... https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm I believe Steve Gibson and Security Now was mentioned in this remailer some time ago, and a number of people had negative comments about him. Personally I enjoy his style and have no reason to believe his explanation of the security problems isn't accurate. I remember reading his columns back in the 80's and enjoyed his writing. Doug. From jus at krytosvirus.com Sat Dec 13 09:18:27 2014 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 09:18:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations Message-ID: I installed dokuwiki which has a package in mint. It takes a little bit of work to get it working well but it's very easy and nice to use once it's up and running. I also went the El cheapo route for authentication and just did http auth with Apache. Also, though not likely a mint specific feature, installing Google Chrome in Mint 17 was all it took for me to be able to watch Netflix on mint, another case of "it just works."?
-------- Original message --------
From: Dan Gawarecki
Date:12/10/2014 4:25 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] POT: seeking Wiki software recommendations
In reading recent "Linux Mint" article by Justin Krejci , I came across his statement of: . . . ones I keep a list on a wiki page as well as notes and other useful hints to remind myself on . . . I'm using Linux Mint 17 (KDE 32-bit) myself (same Unity complaint about Ubuntu), and would like to run a wiki too, and so I am soliciting recommendations Justin or others have for Wiki software, preferably something on the light-weight side? Thanks, Dan Gawarecki ( gav - a - ret - ski ) Sr. QA Engineer dan_gawarecki at datacard.com | www.datacard.com _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 12:33:25 2014 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 18:33:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu update hosed me. . . nvidia the probable culprit Message-ID: <1902011687.411123.1418668405129.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Just did the software update . . . which I noticed wanted to give my Thinkpad T61 a new nvidia driver . . . and it now boots up to some empty screen. How can I boot up to some fallback driver and correct this situation? LB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From o1bigtenor at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 17:56:30 2014 From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 17:56:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu update hosed me. . . nvidia the probable culprit In-Reply-To: <1902011687.411123.1418668405129.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1902011687.411123.1418668405129.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > Just did the software update . . . which I noticed wanted to give my > Thinkpad T61 a new nvidia driver . . . and it now boots up to some empty > screen. How can I boot up to some fallback driver and correct this > situation? > When I ran into this issue (I have 4 monitors on 2 graphics cards) there was a lot of work to getting things working again. You have not details much so I can't really share my odessey. The sharing is up to you. D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From galanolwe at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 20:13:02 2014 From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 02:13:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu update hosed me. . . nvidia the probable culprit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1873496922.618200.1418695982820.JavaMail.yahoo@jws106134.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Actually, I reinstalled, updated/upgraded, then chose the nvidia again. Got something of the same error (two broken files?), but it seemed to go on into Unity without a hitch. Rebooting didn't give me the errors. On Monday, December 15, 2014 3:56 PM, o1bigtenor wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: Just did the software update . . . which I noticed wanted to give my Thinkpad T61 a new nvidia driver . . . and it now boots up to some empty screen. How can I boot up to some fallback driver and correct this situation? When I ran into this issue (I have 4 monitors on 2 graphics cards) there was a lot of work to getting things working again. You have not details much so I can't really share my odessey. The sharing is up to you. D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From forrest.cahoon at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 12:52:12 2014 From: forrest.cahoon at gmail.com (Forrest Cahoon) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 12:52:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu update hosed me. . . nvidia the probable culprit In-Reply-To: <1902011687.411123.1418668405129.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1902011687.411123.1418668405129.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Usually when something like this happens, you'll still be able to do Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to a text-based console where you can log in and fix things. If you can get there, "sudo apt-get install -f" stands a good chance of fixing the problem. Forrest On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Olwe Bottorff wrote: > > Just did the software update . . . which I noticed wanted to give my > Thinkpad T61 a new nvidia driver . . . and it now boots up to some empty > screen. How can I boot up to some fallback driver and correct this > situation? > > LB > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Wed Dec 17 18:26:22 2014 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 18:26:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using a computer as a router's access point Message-ID: <20141217182622.06b9a9f7@Newton> I currently get internet access through a USB modem. I also have a wifi network, but it is not connected to the internet; it only serves to provide wireless access to my ethernet printer. I have multiple computers that presently share this USB modem (and by "share" I mean unplugging it from one and plugging it into another). So I was wondering if there was any way to use one of my computers as an internet source for my wifi router. In other words, I want to be able to plug the USB modem into one computer, and then (wirelessly or via a cable) connect that computer to the router, allowing other computers connected to this router to use the USB internet connection. I know next to nothing about networking, and was wondering what the best way to accomplish this would be. Also, if it is relevant, network-manager is not compatible with my modem, so I'm using wvdial to connect. After dialing up with wvdial, I run "ip route change to default dev ppp0 via 12.34.56.78" when also connected to wifi to circumvent network-manager, which expects my wireless connection to also give me internet access. Any help would be appreciated, even as far as relevant search terms... any info available online about how to accomplish this is hidden by info on how to make a computer's wireless card broadcast the signal, rather than linking it to a wireless router. Thanks, -Max -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Wed Dec 17 19:47:15 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 19:47:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using a computer as a router's access point In-Reply-To: <20141217182622.06b9a9f7@Newton> References: <20141217182622.06b9a9f7@Newton> Message-ID: <2B2CBFF9-DDE3-4163-A389-48D225B70265@cwis.biz> Have you looked at something like pfSense? > On Dec 17, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Max Shinn wrote: > > I currently get internet access through a USB modem. I also have a > wifi network, but it is not connected to the internet; it only serves > to provide wireless access to my ethernet printer. I have multiple > computers that presently share this USB modem (and by "share" I mean > unplugging it from one and plugging it into another). > > So I was wondering if there was any way to use one of my computers as > an internet source for my wifi router. In other words, I want to be > able to plug the USB modem into one computer, and then (wirelessly or > via a cable) connect that computer to the router, allowing other > computers connected to this router to use the USB internet connection. I > know next to nothing about networking, and was wondering what the best > way to accomplish this would be. > > Also, if it is relevant, network-manager is not compatible with my > modem, so I'm using wvdial to connect. After dialing up with wvdial, I > run "ip route change to default dev ppp0 via 12.34.56.78" when also > connected to wifi to circumvent network-manager, which expects my > wireless connection to also give me internet access. > > Any help would be appreciated, even as far as relevant search terms... > any info available online about how to accomplish this is hidden by > info on how to make a computer's wireless card broadcast the signal, > rather than linking it to a wireless router. > > Thanks, > > -Max > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Wed Dec 17 20:41:03 2014 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 20:41:03 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using a computer as a router's access point In-Reply-To: <2B2CBFF9-DDE3-4163-A389-48D225B70265@cwis.biz> References: <20141217182622.06b9a9f7@Newton> <2B2CBFF9-DDE3-4163-A389-48D225B70265@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <20141217204103.2c7cf583@Newton> > > So I was wondering if there was any way to use one of my computers > > as an internet source for my wifi router. > > Have you looked at something like pfSense? I'm looking more for something I can do with my current setup. I don't want to reformat, and it seems a bit excessive to set up an extra computer just to get the USB <-> Router link. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tclug at freakzilla.com Wed Dec 17 21:24:51 2014 From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 21:24:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: [tclug-list] Using a computer as a router's access point In-Reply-To: <20141217182622.06b9a9f7@Newton> References: <20141217182622.06b9a9f7@Newton> Message-ID: You should be able to set the box with the modem to route everything through it (should be happening anyway), and set it as the default router for all the other machines, I think. On Wed, 17 Dec 2014, Max Shinn wrote: > I currently get internet access through a USB modem. I also have a > wifi network, but it is not connected to the internet; it only serves > to provide wireless access to my ethernet printer. I have multiple > computers that presently share this USB modem (and by "share" I mean > unplugging it from one and plugging it into another). > > So I was wondering if there was any way to use one of my computers as > an internet source for my wifi router. In other words, I want to be > able to plug the USB modem into one computer, and then (wirelessly or > via a cable) connect that computer to the router, allowing other > computers connected to this router to use the USB internet connection. I > know next to nothing about networking, and was wondering what the best > way to accomplish this would be. > > Also, if it is relevant, network-manager is not compatible with my > modem, so I'm using wvdial to connect. After dialing up with wvdial, I > run "ip route change to default dev ppp0 via 12.34.56.78" when also > connected to wifi to circumvent network-manager, which expects my > wireless connection to also give me internet access. > > Any help would be appreciated, even as far as relevant search terms... > any info available online about how to accomplish this is hidden by > info on how to make a computer's wireless card broadcast the signal, > rather than linking it to a wireless router. > > Thanks, > > -Max > From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Wed Dec 17 22:48:39 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 22:48:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using a computer as a router's access point Message-ID: the box with the modem should have a second nic, whose address will be the gateway (eg 192.168.x.y) of your local network (eg 192.168.x.0, netmask 255.255.255.0). it needs ip forwarding enabled in /etc/sysctl.conf. if it has a firewall that'll likely need attention. you can set it up as a dhcp server for your local network, or just give each box a fixed address (eg 192.168.x.yy). you can use google's 8.8.8.8 for a dns server. wired and wifi may all interconnect on your local network. NetworkMangler is a relatively new player in all this, you can use it or not. search "local network howto" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From max at bernsteinforpresident.com Thu Dec 18 08:09:53 2014 From: max at bernsteinforpresident.com (Max Shinn) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 08:09:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Using a computer as a router's access point In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20141218080953.5af43330@Newton> > the box with the modem should have a second nic, whose address will > be the gateway (eg 192.168.x.y) of your local network (eg > 192.168.x.0, netmask 255.255.255.0). it needs ip forwarding enabled > in /etc/sysctl.conf. if it has a firewall that'll likely need > attention. you can set it up as a dhcp server for your local > network, or just give each box a fixed address (eg 192.168.x.yy). This worked perfectly, thank you. I was able to find the necessary iptables commands online, and set up the network with a static ip for each box. -Max -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From craigallynsmith at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 12:49:01 2014 From: craigallynsmith at gmail.com (Craig Smith) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 12:49:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] SSD vs HDD for DIY security camera project Message-ID: Season?s Greetings TC-LUG?ers, I run a DIY network of security cameras that work in two parts. FTP (or server pull) A number of cameras send jpeg images to server several times a minute. FFMPEG Once a day, read last 24hrs of jpegs and write out the mp4 video. Calculating the mp4 files takes most of the time, preventing higher frames-rates, increasing sever load (impacting other uses) and delaying availability of the final video. QUESTION Since this is disk-intensive, I trust performance would improve if Jpegs were written-to and read-from solid-state drive (SSD) as opposed to traditional spinning mechanical-platter hard disk (HD). I plan to continue writing the final MP4 to HD. Looking at RAID for faster reads serving the final product. I understand SSD are faster, quieter, more reliable, and uses less power than HD (compelling arguments) but have a limited number of read-write cycles before failure and are prone to fail on power outages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive#Comparison_with_other_technologies If I run 5GB per day through a 120GB SSD what?s the expected MTBF? Otherwise, more ram and a faster cpu should help. Any system design, hardware, or architecture tips? -- Craig A. Smith mailto:craigallynsmith at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdalano at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 13:39:51 2014 From: sdalano at gmail.com (Saul Alanis) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 13:39:51 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS Message-ID: I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justin.kremer at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 14:00:34 2014 From: justin.kremer at gmail.com (Justin Kremer) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:00:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] SSD vs HDD for DIY security camera project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Craig Smith wrote: > QUESTION > > Since this is disk-intensive, I trust performance would improve if Jpegs > were written-to and read-from solid-state drive (SSD) as opposed to > traditional spinning mechanical-platter hard disk (HD). I plan to continue > writing the final MP4 to HD. Looking at RAID for faster reads serving the > final product. This may not be true, since your usage case sounds like it would actually primarily be transferring your data over ethernet, the ethernet will almost certainly be more of a bottleneck than your storage device. Since you said something about 5GB/day, neither is likely to be an issue. I have used HDD for similar types of things without any problems. At this point, spinning disks are still enough cheaper than SSD that cost for capacity would be a bigger factor than performance for something like this. For decent playback performance, HDD drives tend to actually be quite good at sequential read performance. Sequential write is also pretty good. Spinning disks are not so great at random read/write. Your MP4 calculation is likely CPU bound, as the input is probably mostly sequential and the output would also be sequential. I would guess that if you are using an older CPU, a new generation multi-core (and possibly hyper-threaded) CPU would be the best bet for improving the conversion performance, and performance of other simultaneous processes. Newer CPUs have a lot of compressed video optimizations. The biggest advantage I would see for an SSD would be reliability, since decent SSD drives have actually become more reliable than HDD drives, which manufacturers just don't seem to take any pride in anymore. (I've had good luck with Samsung drives) The type of volume you mention shouldn't cause premature failure of an SSD, but could eventually cause degraded performance. Manufacturers still say this would take decades, but that might be best case scenario. A higher capacity SSD would take longer to run into any possible wear leveling issues. - Justin From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Thu Dec 25 14:00:58 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:00:58 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] SSD vs HDD for DIY security camera project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56452CA5-1584-4C51-81E8-3837E2779EE5@cwis.biz> Craig, Spinning disk all the way for your initial work space, you can do SSD for longer storage. You don?t need to do SSD for default storage - it?s not worth the time or cost IMO (which is based on 4 years in the video surveillance industry). ? Ryan > On Dec 25, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Craig Smith wrote: > > Season?s Greetings TC-LUG?ers, > > > I run a DIY network of security cameras that work in two parts. > > > FTP (or server pull) > > A number of cameras send jpeg images to server several times a minute. > > > FFMPEG > Once a day, read last 24hrs of jpegs and write out the mp4 video. > > > Calculating the mp4 files takes most of the time, preventing higher frames-rates, increasing sever load (impacting other uses) and delaying availability of the final video. > > > QUESTION > > Since this is disk-intensive, I trust performance would improve if Jpegs were written-to and read-from solid-state drive (SSD) as opposed to traditional spinning mechanical-platter hard disk (HD). I plan to continue writing the final MP4 to HD. Looking at RAID for faster reads serving the final product. > > > I understand SSD are faster, quieter, more reliable, and uses less power than HD (compelling arguments) but have a limited number of read-write cycles before failure and are prone to fail on power outages. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive#Comparison_with_other_technologies > > If I run 5GB per day through a 120GB SSD what?s the expected MTBF? > > > Otherwise, more ram and a faster cpu should help. Any system design, hardware, or architecture tips? > > > > > -- > Craig A. Smith mailto:craigallynsmith at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Thu Dec 25 14:02:53 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:02:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3AADE7F6-3309-4BA2-8FB4-64F4517979BD@cwis.biz> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. ? Ryan > On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: > > I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: > > http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis > > A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. > > http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ > > TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sdalano at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 14:17:29 2014 From: sdalano at gmail.com (Saul Alanis) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 14:17:29 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] SSD vs HDD for DIY security camera project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Craig- Not really sure what you need since can't determine where the bottleneck is based on the information you've provided, but I like what Justin has said. However, there are multiple things to speed up processing without having to spend money. First, I would try to capture system resources using sar and determine CPU, memory, and I/O utilization for a period of time. Then compare this information using multiple points graphing it if you can. I know this isn't anything new but I would also look to disabling unnecessary services running on this system. Depending on your system set up, I would separate physical disks between the OS and where the video and images are being written. You can adjust caching / swappiness and change the I/O elevator to speed up writing of files. Let us know what you find and how you address it? -Saul On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Justin Kremer wrote: > On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Craig Smith > wrote: > > QUESTION > > > > Since this is disk-intensive, I trust performance would improve if Jpegs > > were written-to and read-from solid-state drive (SSD) as opposed to > > traditional spinning mechanical-platter hard disk (HD). I plan to > continue > > writing the final MP4 to HD. Looking at RAID for faster reads serving > the > > final product. > > This may not be true, since your usage case sounds like it would > actually primarily be transferring your data over ethernet, the > ethernet will almost certainly be more of a bottleneck than your > storage device. Since you said something about 5GB/day, neither is > likely to be an issue. > I have used HDD for similar types of things without any problems. At > this point, spinning disks are still enough cheaper than SSD that cost > for capacity would be a bigger factor than performance for something > like this. > For decent playback performance, HDD drives tend to actually be quite > good at sequential read performance. Sequential write is also pretty > good. Spinning disks are not so great at random read/write. > Your MP4 calculation is likely CPU bound, as the input is probably > mostly sequential and the output would also be sequential. I would > guess that if you are using an older CPU, a new generation multi-core > (and possibly hyper-threaded) CPU would be the best bet for improving > the conversion performance, and performance of other simultaneous > processes. Newer CPUs have a lot of compressed video optimizations. > The biggest advantage I would see for an SSD would be reliability, > since decent SSD drives have actually become more reliable than HDD > drives, which manufacturers just don't seem to take any pride in > anymore. (I've had good luck with Samsung drives) > The type of volume you mention shouldn't cause premature failure of an > SSD, but could eventually cause degraded performance. Manufacturers > still say this would take decades, but that might be best case > scenario. A higher capacity SSD would take longer to run into any > possible wear leveling issues. > - Justin > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at e-skinner.net Fri Dec 26 15:44:26 2014 From: marc at e-skinner.net (Marc Skinner) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 15:44:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] SSD vs HDD for DIY security camera project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <549DD6BA.7080107@e-skinner.net> What cameras do you use? On 12/25/2014 12:49 PM, Craig Smith wrote: > Season?s Greetings TC-LUG?ers, > > I run a DIY network of security cameras that work in two parts. > > FTP (or server pull) > > A number of cameras send jpeg images to server several times a minute. > > FFMPEG > Once a day, read last 24hrs of jpegs and write out the mp4 video. > > Calculating the mp4 files takes most of the time, preventing higher > frames-rates, increasing sever load (impacting other uses) and delaying > availability of the final video. > > QUESTION > > Since this is disk-intensive, I trust performance would improve if Jpegs > were written-to and read-from solid-state drive (SSD) as opposed to > traditional spinning mechanical-platter hard disk (HD).I plan to > continue writing the final MP4 to HD.Looking at RAID for faster reads > serving the final product. > > I understand SSD are faster, quieter, more reliable, and uses less power > than HD (compelling arguments) but have a limited number of read-write > cycles before failure and are prone to fail on power outages. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive#Comparison_with_other_technologies > > If I run 5GB per day through a 120GB SSD what?s the expected MTBF? > > Otherwise, more ram and a faster cpu should help.Any system design, > hardware, or architecture tips? > > > > -- > Craig A. Smith mailto:craigallynsmith at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From jus at krytosvirus.com Fri Dec 26 17:24:45 2014 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 17:24:45 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: <3AADE7F6-3309-4BA2-8FB4-64F4517979BD@cwis.biz> References: <3AADE7F6-3309-4BA2-8FB4-64F4517979BD@cwis.biz> Message-ID: SDA, This is not really a Linux related topic so I am not surprised it did not show up on the list. Ryan, Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: > That's 10GBE; We've had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. > > Odds are the outer areas won't get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. > > -- > Ryan > >> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: >> >> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >> >> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis [1] >> >> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >> >> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ [2] >> >> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list [3] Links: ------ [1] http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis [2] http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ [3] http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Fri Dec 26 18:34:09 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 18:34:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: <3AADE7F6-3309-4BA2-8FB4-64F4517979BD@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <353755D6-09A7-4E6C-8D25-3828A745CB18@cwis.biz> > On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Ryan, > Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? > > In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive. There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. ? Ryan > On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: > >> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. >> >> Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. >> >> >> ? >> Ryan >> >>> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis > wrote: >>> >>> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >>> >>> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis >>> >>> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >>> >>> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ >>> >>> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tompoe at meltel.net Fri Dec 26 19:29:16 2014 From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 19:29:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: <353755D6-09A7-4E6C-8D25-3828A745CB18@cwis.biz> References: <3AADE7F6-3309-4BA2-8FB4-64F4517979BD@cwis.biz> <353755D6-09A7-4E6C-8D25-3828A745CB18@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <549E0B6C.4090108@meltel.net> Just a reminder: the FCC is set to hold an auction in 2015, which presumably could open up more unlicensed frequencies, thus boosting WiFi innovation. Hopefully, this will be an opportunity to allow the public to tackle the State control of the airwaves we, the public, own. Minnesota has infrastructure between rest stops along its' highways, fiber throughout much of its' university system, all neatly tucked away from public use. It wouldn't be nearly as expensive as the numbers Ryan is contributing to the discussion to effectively create community based wifi networks which are robust and managed by the residents of each community. Am I whistling at windmills? Tom On 12/26/2014 06:34 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci > > wrote: >> >> Ryan, >> Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer >> areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? >> > > In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: > > 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads > are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see > that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means > I can never get fiber from them > > 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs > your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by > CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for > about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. > > 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly > bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our > termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). > > The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. > So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost > will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a > positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching > in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My > commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a > DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. > Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? > Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost > of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very > expensive. > > There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as > quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and > connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less > depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a > radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up > (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. > > ? > Ryan > > >> On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. >>> Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my >>> last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office >>> in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across >>> the highway. >>> ? >>> Ryan >>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >>>> >>>> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis >>>> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts >>>> entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >>>> >>>> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ >>>> >>>> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of >>>> Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the >>>> 21st century. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kjh at flyballdogs.com Fri Dec 26 19:55:11 2014 From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2014 19:55:11 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: <353755D6-09A7-4E6C-8D25-3828A745CB18@cwis.biz> References: <3AADE7F6-3309-4BA2-8FB4-64F4517979BD@cwis.biz> <353755D6-09A7-4E6C-8D25-3828A745CB18@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <547dd35d4bda537ff9f173b041a04eb6@flyballdogs.com> On 2014-12-26 18:34, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: >> >> Ryan, >> Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? > > In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: > > 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question -- Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them Last summer they mentioned on reddit that they are working on Lyndale: http://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/2a7f1t/finally_bumped_from_the_100m_to_1000m_internet/cist1u1 -- Kathryn Hogg http://womensfooty.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Sat Dec 27 10:39:12 2014 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:39:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS Message-ID: Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office model so the last mile fibers don't go very far.
-------- Original message --------
From: Ryan Coleman
Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS
On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: Ryan, Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive. There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. ? Ryan On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. ? Ryan On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Sat Dec 27 12:20:59 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 12:20:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for low voltage installers since 2011. The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit today but not enough to make a big impact). > On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > > Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. > > Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Ryan Coleman > Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS > >> On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: >> Ryan, >> Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? >> >> > > In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: > > 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them > > 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. > > 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). > > The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive. > > There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. > > ? > Ryan > > >> On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >>> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. >>> >>> Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. >>> >>> >>> ? >>> Ryan >>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis > wrote: >>>> >>>> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >>>> >>>> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis >>>> >>>> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >>>> >>>> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ >>>> >>>> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Sat Dec 27 15:54:33 2014 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 15:54:33 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS Message-ID: <4ifu8f1hai787m32xrchb5pm.1419713755119@email.android.com> Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area with new fiber.?Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand of fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease options available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is custom built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the fiber is all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to become damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree growth, tree cutting, vandalism, etc.? The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are already looking into other cities in the area.
-------- Original message --------
From: Ryan Coleman
Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS
The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for low voltage installers since 2011. The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit today but not enough to make a big impact). On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. -------- Original message -------- From: Ryan Coleman Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: Ryan, Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive. There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. ? Ryan On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. ? Ryan On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Sun Dec 28 15:28:12 2014 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 15:28:12 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How to mount different dec in place of existing mount? Message-ID: Hello, I just installed a fresh Fedora 21 without my RAID card in the machine. All seemed well, so I installed the RAID card and booted. The OS automatically mounted it as /dev/md127 and the files I checked are good and the state is clean. What is the correct procedure to unmount and eliminate the current /home (created by the install) and mount it to /dev/md127 (which was the mount in the prior machine)? I'm hesitant to try anything more than I have for fear of ruining something! The two devices in question: # df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/mapper/fedora-home 23G 49M 22G 1% /home /dev/md127 2.7T 1.2T 1.5T 45% /run/media/root/a60db566-0720-41a1-97d8-5afeddbbf802 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Sun Dec 28 15:49:02 2014 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 15:49:02 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How to mount different dec in place of existing mount? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I meant to note that trying the obvious has this issue: # umount /home umount: /home: target is busy (In some cases useful info about processes that use the device is found by lsof(8) or fuser(1).) (I'm logged in as root and it's home is /root, not in home. /home has one user created during install and the lost+found dir.) What must occur to allow umount of /home? On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > Hello, > > I just installed a fresh Fedora 21 without my RAID card in the machine. > All seemed well, so I installed the RAID card and booted. The OS > automatically mounted it as /dev/md127 and the files I checked are good and > the state is clean. > > What is the correct procedure to unmount and eliminate the current /home > (created by the install) and mount it to /dev/md127 (which was the mount in > the prior machine)? > > I'm hesitant to try anything more than I have for fear of ruining > something! > > The two devices in question: > # df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/mapper/fedora-home 23G 49M 22G 1% /home > /dev/md127 2.7T 1.2T 1.5T 45% > /run/media/root/a60db566-0720-41a1-97d8-5afeddbbf802 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Sun Dec 28 16:05:32 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 16:05:32 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How to mount different dec in place of existing mount? Message-ID: you get that message while some process has a file open in that filesystem. eg perhaps your shell had it's current directory in there. or something you launched. or possibly a daemon. once the file/directories are no longer busy the umount will proceed. otoh you could just shrug, remove/change the filesystem definition in /etc/fstab and reboot. sounds like that's where you're headed anyway.. On 28 December 2014 at 15:49, Jeff Jensen wrote: > I meant to note that trying the obvious has this issue: > # umount /home > umount: /home: target is busy > (In some cases useful info about processes that > use the device is found by lsof(8) or fuser(1).) > > (I'm logged in as root and it's home is /root, not in home. /home has one > user created during install and the lost+found dir.) > > What must occur to allow umount of /home? > > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I just installed a fresh Fedora 21 without my RAID card in the machine. >> All seemed well, so I installed the RAID card and booted. The OS >> automatically mounted it as /dev/md127 and the files I checked are good and >> the state is clean. >> >> What is the correct procedure to unmount and eliminate the current /home >> (created by the install) and mount it to /dev/md127 (which was the mount in >> the prior machine)? >> >> I'm hesitant to try anything more than I have for fear of ruining >> something! >> >> The two devices in question: >> # df -h >> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on >> /dev/mapper/fedora-home 23G 49M 22G 1% /home >> /dev/md127 2.7T 1.2T 1.5T 45% >> /run/media/root/a60db566-0720-41a1-97d8-5afeddbbf802 >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sethmiller.sm at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 14:59:34 2014 From: sethmiller.sm at gmail.com (Seth Miller) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 14:59:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How to mount different dec in place of existing mount? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeff, Try using the fuser command to see what PIDs are preventing it from unmounting. fuser /home Seth Miller On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM, gregrwm wrote: > you get that message while some process has a file open in that > filesystem. eg perhaps your shell had it's current directory in there. or > something you launched. or possibly a daemon. once the file/directories > are no longer busy the umount will proceed. otoh you could just shrug, > remove/change the filesystem definition in /etc/fstab and reboot. sounds > like that's where you're headed anyway.. > > > > On 28 December 2014 at 15:49, Jeff Jensen wrote: > >> I meant to note that trying the obvious has this issue: >> # umount /home >> umount: /home: target is busy >> (In some cases useful info about processes that >> use the device is found by lsof(8) or fuser(1).) >> >> (I'm logged in as root and it's home is /root, not in home. /home has >> one user created during install and the lost+found dir.) >> >> What must occur to allow umount of /home? >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I just installed a fresh Fedora 21 without my RAID card in the machine. >>> All seemed well, so I installed the RAID card and booted. The OS >>> automatically mounted it as /dev/md127 and the files I checked are good and >>> the state is clean. >>> >>> What is the correct procedure to unmount and eliminate the current /home >>> (created by the install) and mount it to /dev/md127 (which was the mount in >>> the prior machine)? >>> >>> I'm hesitant to try anything more than I have for fear of ruining >>> something! >>> >>> The two devices in question: >>> # df -h >>> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on >>> /dev/mapper/fedora-home 23G 49M 22G 1% /home >>> /dev/md127 2.7T 1.2T 1.5T 45% >>> /run/media/root/a60db566-0720-41a1-97d8-5afeddbbf802 >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Mon Dec 29 16:01:06 2014 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 16:01:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] How to mount different dec in place of existing mount? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks guys, it was a process started that had the dir. On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Seth Miller wrote: > Jeff, > > Try using the fuser command to see what PIDs are preventing it from > unmounting. > > fuser /home > > Seth Miller > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM, gregrwm wrote: > >> you get that message while some process has a file open in that >> filesystem. eg perhaps your shell had it's current directory in there. or >> something you launched. or possibly a daemon. once the file/directories >> are no longer busy the umount will proceed. otoh you could just shrug, >> remove/change the filesystem definition in /etc/fstab and reboot. sounds >> like that's where you're headed anyway.. >> >> >> >> On 28 December 2014 at 15:49, Jeff Jensen wrote: >> >>> I meant to note that trying the obvious has this issue: >>> # umount /home >>> umount: /home: target is busy >>> (In some cases useful info about processes that >>> use the device is found by lsof(8) or fuser(1).) >>> >>> (I'm logged in as root and it's home is /root, not in home. /home has >>> one user created during install and the lost+found dir.) >>> >>> What must occur to allow umount of /home? >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I just installed a fresh Fedora 21 without my RAID card in the >>>> machine. All seemed well, so I installed the RAID card and booted. The OS >>>> automatically mounted it as /dev/md127 and the files I checked are good and >>>> the state is clean. >>>> >>>> What is the correct procedure to unmount and eliminate the current >>>> /home (created by the install) and mount it to /dev/md127 (which was the >>>> mount in the prior machine)? >>>> >>>> I'm hesitant to try anything more than I have for fear of ruining >>>> something! >>>> >>>> The two devices in question: >>>> # df -h >>>> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on >>>> /dev/mapper/fedora-home 23G 49M 22G 1% /home >>>> /dev/md127 2.7T 1.2T 1.5T 45% >>>> /run/media/root/a60db566-0720-41a1-97d8-5afeddbbf802 >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Mon Dec 29 16:24:35 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 16:24:35 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: <4ifu8f1hai787m32xrchb5pm.1419713755119@email.android.com> References: <4ifu8f1hai787m32xrchb5pm.1419713755119@email.android.com> Message-ID: <40E4E41A-FA71-44DB-BFA8-A46D4D795632@cwis.biz> Good information to know, thank you. When will Linden Hills be buried and lit, then? My brothers and I are going to pay for the connection when it goes down my parents? street and I?m going to relocate my servers to their house, pay for the service and give them access when the time comes. ? Ryan > On Dec 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > > Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area with new fiber. Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand of fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease options available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is custom built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the fiber is all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to become damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree growth, tree cutting, vandalism, etc. > > The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are already looking into other cities in the area. > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Ryan Coleman > Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS > > The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for low voltage installers since 2011. > > The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. > > I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. > > The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit today but not enough to make a big impact). > >> On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci > wrote: >> >> Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. >> >> Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Ryan Coleman >> Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >> >>> On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: >>> Ryan, >>> Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? >>> >>> >> >> In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: >> >> 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them >> >> 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. >> >> 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). >> >> The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive. >> >> There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. >> >> ? >> Ryan >> >> >>> On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> >>>> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. >>>> >>>> Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>>> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis >>>>> >>>>> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ >>>>> >>>>> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jus at krytosvirus.com Mon Dec 29 20:34:22 2014 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:34:22 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS Message-ID: <7ve5g9tvnxnhrorg1fw9m05c.1419906860453@email.android.com> Obviously no guarantees but it is likely 2016 will bring USI fiber to Linden Hills, not probable for 2015. We plan to have 2015 coverage maps updated and posted in a week or two most likely.
-------- Original message --------
From: Ryan Coleman
Date:12/29/2014 4:24 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS
Good information to know, thank you. When will Linden Hills be buried and lit, then? My brothers and I are going to pay for the connection when it goes down my parents? street and I?m going to relocate my servers to their house, pay for the service and give them access when the time comes. ? Ryan On Dec 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area with new fiber. Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand of fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease options available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is custom built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the fiber is all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to become damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree growth, tree cutting, vandalism, etc. The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are already looking into other cities in the area. -------- Original message -------- From: Ryan Coleman Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for low voltage installers since 2011. The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit today but not enough to make a big impact). On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. -------- Original message -------- From: Ryan Coleman Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: Ryan, Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive. There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. ? Ryan On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. ? Ryan On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Dec 29 23:08:19 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:08:19 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? Message-ID: As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning and my... so called research <--some scoff' The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic standpoint as 'wishing to be smart' There are many questions that I have as far as research and fibre optic cables and I do not know how to be a part of the discussion except for do as I am told and 'keep quiet your an idiot' <-- I know I am; save me the pain please. I would like for anyone who has time to look at this bug which affects all 'Debian' based systems after 'Jesse'. I believe and give some input. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713877 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=753379 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725978 ------------------------this is a major issue with GNU/Linux becoming a formidable desktop OS for consumers as of 'NOW!' I apologize once again for posting on your forums and asking the 'enlightened' for help. sincerly, paul g -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Mon Dec 29 23:20:42 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:20:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: > > As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning and my... so called research <--some scoff' > > The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic standpoint as 'wishing to be smart? Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still alive and well (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and then there?s BSD which is another fork. > There are many questions that I have as far as research and fibre optic cables and I do not know how to be a part of the discussion except for do as I am told and 'keep quiet your an idiot' <-- I know I am; save me the pain please. > > I would like for anyone who has time to look at this bug which affects all 'Debian' based systems after 'Jesse'. I believe and give some input. > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713877 > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=753379 > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725978 > > ------------------------this is a major issue with GNU/Linux becoming a formidable desktop OS for consumers as of 'NOW!' > > I apologize once again for posting on your forums and asking the 'enlightened' for help. > > sincerly, > > paul g > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Mon Dec 29 23:39:37 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:39:37 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: What I know is you are smart and I would appreciate your input on the 'bug' links I provided. I apologize for not knowing more but I wanted to bring this to attention. Sorry, paul g From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:20:42 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote:As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning and my... so called research <--some scoff' The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic standpoint as 'wishing to be smart? Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all.Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still alive and well (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and then there?s BSD which is another fork. There are many questions that I have as far as research and fibre optic cables and I do not know how to be a part of the discussion except for do as I am told and 'keep quiet your an idiot' <-- I know I am; save me the pain please. I would like for anyone who has time to look at this bug which affects all 'Debian' based systems after 'Jesse'. I believe and give some input. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713877 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=753379 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725978 ------------------------this is a major issue with GNU/Linux becoming a formidable desktop OS for consumers as of 'NOW!' I apologize once again for posting on your forums and asking the 'enlightened' for help. sincerly, paul g _______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Dec 29 23:57:27 2014 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:57:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4C770D70895545E2ACC03B23ECF9EDF1@d830a> Look for and join a debian specialty discussion group to pursue this. Your first link is from debian.org, the masters or specialists in debian, and says it "has been archived" and nothing further is expected. They and/or their archives will provide all there is to know of this. It doesn't seem to be a topic of interest or concern here. _____ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of paul g Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 11:40 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? What I know is you are smart and I would appreciate your input on the 'bug' links I provided. I apologize for not knowing more but I wanted to bring this to attention. Sorry, paul g _____ From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:20:42 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning and my... so called research <--some scoff' The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic standpoint as 'wishing to be smart' Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still alive and well (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and then there's BSD which is another fork. There are many questions that I have as far as research and fibre optic cables and I do not know how to be a part of the discussion except for do as I am told and 'keep quiet your an idiot' <-- I know I am; save me the pain please. I would like for anyone who has time to look at this bug which affects all 'Debian' based systems after 'Jesse'. I believe and give some input. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713877 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=753379 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725978 ------------------------this is a major issue with GNU/Linux becoming a formidable desktop OS for consumers as of 'NOW!' I apologize once again for posting on your forums and asking the 'enlightened' for help. sincerly, paul g _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 00:23:14 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 00:23:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <4C770D70895545E2ACC03B23ECF9EDF1@d830a> References: , , , , <4C770D70895545E2ACC03B23ECF9EDF1@d830a> Message-ID: Certainly you know best. Once again I will do as you say captain. Thank you for your time, From: cncole at earthlink.net To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:57:27 -0600 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? Look for and join a debian specialty discussion group to pursue this. Your first link is from debian.org, the masters or specialists in debian, and says it "has been archived" and nothing further is expected. They and/or their archives will provide all there is to know of this. It doesn't seem to be a topic of interest or concern here. From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of paul g Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 11:40 PM To: TCLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? What I know is you are smart and I would appreciate your input on the 'bug' links I provided. I apologize for not knowing more but I wanted to bring this to attention. Sorry, paul g From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:20:42 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning and my... so called research <--some scoff' The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic standpoint as 'wishing to be smart? Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still alive and well (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and then there?s BSD which is another fork. There are many questions that I have as far as research and fibre optic cables and I do not know how to be a part of the discussion except for do as I am told and 'keep quiet your an idiot' <-- I know I am; save me the pain please. I would like for anyone who has time to look at this bug which affects all 'Debian' based systems after 'Jesse'. I believe and give some input. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713877 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=753379 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725978 ------------------------this is a major issue with GNU/Linux becoming a formidable desktop OS for consumers as of 'NOW!' I apologize once again for posting on your forums and asking the 'enlightened' for help. sincerly, paul g _______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjensen at apache.org Tue Dec 30 09:55:38 2014 From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 09:55:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: <7ve5g9tvnxnhrorg1fw9m05c.1419906860453@email.android.com> References: <7ve5g9tvnxnhrorg1fw9m05c.1419906860453@email.android.com> Message-ID: A short article on this topic: http://www.sciencealert.com/a-us-suburb-just-got-the-fastest-internet-connection-in-the-world On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > Obviously no guarantees but it is likely 2016 will bring USI fiber to > Linden Hills, not probable for 2015. > > We plan to have 2015 coverage maps updated and posted in a week or two > most likely. > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Ryan Coleman > Date:12/29/2014 4:24 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS > > Good information to know, thank you. > > When will Linden Hills be buried and lit, then? My brothers and I are > going to pay for the connection when it goes down my parents? street and > I?m going to relocate my servers to their house, pay for the service and > give them access when the time comes. > > ? > Ryan > > > On Dec 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > > Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data > centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, > creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area > with new fiber. Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the > USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding > of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand > of fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease > options available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is > custom built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the > fiber is all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to > become damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree > growth, tree cutting, vandalism, etc. > > The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but > plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are > already looking into other cities in the area. > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Ryan Coleman > Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS > > The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for > low voltage installers since 2011. > > The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office > switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing > fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI > would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. > > I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot > available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that > I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul > but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model > for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can > easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. > > The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk > line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the > Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit > today but not enough to make a big impact). > > On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: > > Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and > number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. > > Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office > model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Ryan Coleman > Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS > > On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: > > Ryan, > Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer > areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? > > > In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: > > 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are > out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale > is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get > fiber from them > > 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your > best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I > can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of > USI in Minneapolis. > > 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury > the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination > point was about 1,800 feet from the building). > > The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So > either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be > passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive > return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next > 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to > Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the > whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + > the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a > tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these > switches at the distribution point are very expensive. > > There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as > quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection > back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on > the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician > come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any > settings if needed. > > ? > Ryan > > > On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. > > Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last > job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage > Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. > > > ? > Ryan > > On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: > > I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: > > > http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis > > A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts > entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. > > http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ > > TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota > County will get their act together and join the 21st century. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Tue Dec 30 10:04:16 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:04:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: <7ve5g9tvnxnhrorg1fw9m05c.1419906860453@email.android.com> Message-ID: The thing is? $400/month for 10,000,000,000bps isn?t expensive. Paying $90/month for 50,000,000bps is by comparison. :) 20x the speed for 4.5x the price? My business would be all over it if 1) we had the income and 2) USI had fiber down our street (Lyndale in Kingfield/East Harriet) and 3) we owned the duplex. Renting is a bear. > On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > > A short article on this topic: > http://www.sciencealert.com/a-us-suburb-just-got-the-fastest-internet-connection-in-the-world > > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: > Obviously no guarantees but it is likely 2016 will bring USI fiber to Linden Hills, not probable for 2015. > > We plan to have 2015 coverage maps updated and posted in a week or two most likely. > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Ryan Coleman > Date:12/29/2014 4:24 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS > > Good information to know, thank you. > > When will Linden Hills be buried and lit, then? My brothers and I are going to pay for the connection when it goes down my parents? street and I?m going to relocate my servers to their house, pay for the service and give them access when the time comes. > > ? > Ryan > > >> On Dec 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: >> >> Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area with new fiber. Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand of fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease options available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is custom built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the fiber is all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to become damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree growth, tree cutting, vandalism, etc. >> >> The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are already looking into other cities in the area. >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Ryan Coleman >> Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >> >> The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for low voltage installers since 2011. >> >> The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. >> >> I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. >> >> The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit today but not enough to make a big impact). >> >>> On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci > wrote: >>> >>> Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. >>> >>> Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: Ryan Coleman >>> Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: TCLUG Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >>> >>>> On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci > wrote: >>>> Ryan, >>>> Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? >>>> >>>> >>> >>> In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: >>> >>> 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get fiber from them >>> >>> 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of USI in Minneapolis. >>> >>> 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination point was about 1,800 feet from the building). >>> >>> The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at the distribution point are very expensive. >>> >>> There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any settings if needed. >>> >>> ? >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>>> On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>>> >>>>> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. >>>>> >>>>> Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> Ryan >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis >>>>>> >>>>>> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota County will get their act together and join the 21st century. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 10:17:25 2014 From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:17:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: <7ve5g9tvnxnhrorg1fw9m05c.1419906860453@email.android.com> Message-ID: For that price, I'd bury CAT6 and hook the neigbors in who pay into a pool. 10 gigabit coop :-) I suppose something that cool wouldn't be legal, especially if Comcast or CL had a say in it :-/ -- Jeremy MountainJohnson Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > The thing is? $400/month for 10,000,000,000bps isn?t expensive. > > Paying $90/month for 50,000,000bps is by comparison. :) > > 20x the speed for 4.5x the price? My business would be all over it if 1) we > had the income and 2) USI had fiber down our street (Lyndale in > Kingfield/East Harriet) and 3) we owned the duplex. Renting is a bear. > > On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: > > A short article on this topic: > http://www.sciencealert.com/a-us-suburb-just-got-the-fastest-internet-connection-in-the-world > > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: >> >> Obviously no guarantees but it is likely 2016 will bring USI fiber to >> Linden Hills, not probable for 2015. >> >> We plan to have 2015 coverage maps updated and posted in a week or two >> most likely. >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Ryan Coleman >> Date:12/29/2014 4:24 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >> >> Good information to know, thank you. >> >> When will Linden Hills be buried and lit, then? My brothers and I are >> going to pay for the connection when it goes down my parents? street and I?m >> going to relocate my servers to their house, pay for the service and give >> them access when the time comes. >> >> ? >> Ryan >> >> >> On Dec 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: >> >> Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data >> centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, >> creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area >> with new fiber. Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the >> USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding >> of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand of >> fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease options >> available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is custom >> built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the fiber is >> all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to become >> damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree growth, >> tree cutting, vandalism, etc. >> >> The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but >> plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are >> already looking into other cities in the area. >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Ryan Coleman >> Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >> >> The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for >> low voltage installers since 2011. >> >> The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office >> switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing >> fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI >> would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. >> >> I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot >> available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that >> I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul >> but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model >> for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can >> easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. >> >> The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk >> line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the >> Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit >> today but not enough to make a big impact). >> >> On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: >> >> Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and >> number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. >> >> Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office >> model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Ryan Coleman >> Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) >> To: TCLUG Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >> >> On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: >> >> Ryan, >> Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer >> areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? >> >> >> In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: >> >> 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are >> out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale >> is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get >> fiber from them >> >> 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your >> best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I >> can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of >> USI in Minneapolis. >> >> 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury >> the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination >> point was about 1,800 feet from the building). >> >> The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So >> either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be >> passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive >> return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next >> 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to >> Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole >> way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the >> branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall >> order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at >> the distribution point are very expensive. >> >> There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as >> quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection >> back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the >> link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come >> back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any >> settings if needed. >> >> ? >> Ryan >> >> >> On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. >> >> Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last >> job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage >> Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. >> >> >> ? >> Ryan >> >> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: >> >> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >> >> >> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis >> >> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts >> entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >> >> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ >> >> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota >> County will get their act together and join the 21st century. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From nassarmu at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 10:21:47 2014 From: nassarmu at gmail.com (Munir Nassar) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:21:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: > > As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning > and my... so called research <--some scoff' > > The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic > standpoint as 'wishing to be smart? > > > Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. > Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still alive and well > (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and then there?s BSD > which is another fork. Linux is NOT a fork from Unix, it is a combination of GNU, a reimplementation(and betterment IMHO) of the Unix userland tools, with a kernel written by Linus Torvalds, but these two are certainly not the only parts in the system. People have tried in the past to claim that Linux is a derivative of Unix but there is no factual basis to this claim. Minix is another example of a reimplementation that does not share code with the original Unix. the various BSDs and commercial UNIX offerings(HP's HP-UX, IBM's AIX, Microsoft's(yes, THAT Microsoft) Xenix, SCO's(Novels?) UnixWare, Digital's Tru64, Sun's SunOS/Solaris, Apple's OSX... etc) are all forks and derivatives of the original Unix. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO%E2%80%93Linux_controversies From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Tue Dec 30 10:24:50 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:24:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS In-Reply-To: References: <7ve5g9tvnxnhrorg1fw9m05c.1419906860453@email.android.com> Message-ID: <91DC092E-1868-463C-B819-1046FC3ED090@cwis.biz> Full Disclosure: IANAL and I have not read the TOS that comes with USI fiber business service. For serviceability?s sake I would recommend a different route? Build a wireless mesh (Firetide makes the best hardware and rated for our weather (-40? to 150?F) but there?s Ubiquiti (dirt cheap, literally) and FluidMesh) because it?s a lot easier but then you?d have radios mounted. At least then you don?t have to worry about trenching and protecting. But if you do bury I would suggest doing it in conduit if possible. That way you can get the cable out if you need to instead of burying another line. And you?d be looking at direct burial CAT5e or CAT6 which can be about double the price of quality category 5/6 UTP. In 15 years of wiring I have learned you don?t go cheap on the structured cable. Drop me a line off-list if you?re interested in discussing either of these types of local interneting further. ? Ryan > On Dec 30, 2014, at 10:17 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote: > > For that price, I'd bury CAT6 and hook the neigbors in who pay into a > pool. 10 gigabit coop :-) I suppose something that cool wouldn't be > legal, especially if Comcast or CL had a say in it :-/ > -- > Jeremy MountainJohnson > Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> The thing is? $400/month for 10,000,000,000bps isn?t expensive. >> >> Paying $90/month for 50,000,000bps is by comparison. :) >> >> 20x the speed for 4.5x the price? My business would be all over it if 1) we >> had the income and 2) USI had fiber down our street (Lyndale in >> Kingfield/East Harriet) and 3) we owned the duplex. Renting is a bear. >> >> On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >> >> A short article on this topic: >> http://www.sciencealert.com/a-us-suburb-just-got-the-fastest-internet-connection-in-the-world >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: >>> >>> Obviously no guarantees but it is likely 2016 will bring USI fiber to >>> Linden Hills, not probable for 2015. >>> >>> We plan to have 2015 coverage maps updated and posted in a week or two >>> most likely. >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: Ryan Coleman >>> Date:12/29/2014 4:24 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: TCLUG Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >>> >>> Good information to know, thank you. >>> >>> When will Linden Hills be buried and lit, then? My brothers and I are >>> going to pay for the connection when it goes down my parents? street and I?m >>> going to relocate my servers to their house, pay for the service and give >>> them access when the time comes. >>> >>> ? >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>> On Dec 27, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: >>> >>> Well your assumptions have some faults in this case, eg no additional data >>> centers are needed. It is quite easy to string central offices together, >>> creating loops or daisy chains; USI is mostly looking to saturate the area >>> with new fiber. Switching gear is also not terribly expensive. I manage the >>> USI central office fttx gear for USI so I have a pretty clear understanding >>> of this particular case. Since it is all active ethernet it is one strand of >>> fiber per premises all the way back to the CO. There are no lease options >>> available in the configurations we need; every fiber we order is custom >>> built to our need. This minimizes waste. Greater than 99% of the fiber is >>> all underground which is more expensive but also less likely to become >>> damaged or affected by life going on above ground: vehicles, tree growth, >>> tree cutting, vandalism, etc. >>> >>> The fiber is mostly being built out more in Minneapolis right now but >>> plans are rolling to quickly accelerate deployment and expansion. We are >>> already looking into other cities in the area. >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: Ryan Coleman >>> Date:12/27/2014 12:20 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: TCLUG Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >>> >>> The cost is from 3 years of experience pricing up fiber - I?ve worked for >>> low voltage installers since 2011. >>> >>> The point is there?s a massive cost to building those central office >>> switchers, both in materials and upkeep. If they have to lease existing >>> fiber that will be cheaper initially than owning your own lines but the ROI >>> would be well over 5-10 years, unless you have a lot of immediate signers. >>> >>> I don?t have a map handy for fiber optic paths but there isn?t a lot >>> available going south at the moment. There are no major data centers (that >>> I?m aware of) south of Bloomington (and the river) except for in Saint Paul >>> but that?s an easy jump to make. So? consider that a proper switching model >>> for MANs would require a datacenter or two, plus central offices, you can >>> easily see the cost for building them eclipsing $1MM. >>> >>> The most likely expansions will occur in Minnetonka where USI has a trunk >>> line already, and hopefully soon further into NE Minneapolis outside of the >>> Marcy area (they already have a number of condo and apartment buildings lit >>> today but not enough to make a big impact). >>> >>> On Dec 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Justin Krejci wrote: >>> >>> Ryan, can you share where you are getting all of your cost numbers and >>> number of years estimates from? Some of your figures are way off. >>> >>> Getting into the suburbs will not be too hard. USI uses the central office >>> model so the last mile fibers don't go very far. >>> >>> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: Ryan Coleman >>> Date:12/26/2014 6:34 PM (GMT-06:00) >>> To: TCLUG Mailing List >>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Gigabit Internet in MPLS >>> >>> On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Justin Krejci wrote: >>> >>> Ryan, >>> Where are you getting your odds from? And what do you mean by "outer >>> areas" exactly? Outside of the 494/694 loop? >>> >>> >>> In order to have this happen there are MANY working parts to consider: >>> >>> 1) USI needs to have trunk capabilities. And right of way. Major roads are >>> out of the question ? Take a look at the coverage maps and see that Lyndale >>> is not the main run through South Minneapolis which means I can never get >>> fiber from them >>> >>> 2) To keep the cost low USI needs to own the fiber. In the suburbs your >>> best options today (and for many years to come) are owned by CenturyLink. I >>> can get USI fiber in the burbs with a CL primary for about 10x the price of >>> USI in Minneapolis. >>> >>> 3) The cost to bury fiber is about $100/foot if you cannot directly bury >>> the conduit. If you can dig and cover it?s about $10/foot (our termination >>> point was about 1,800 feet from the building). >>> >>> The benefits and profits do not outweigh the costs for the production. So >>> either USI leases cable from CenturyLink or Level3 - and that cost will be >>> passed on to the customers. In the city USI has already seen a positive >>> return and is likely going to turn a profit on the trenching in the next >>> 5-10 years, but going from a hub to, say, Burnsville? My commute to >>> Burnsville is 12 miles each day? If they have to use a DitchWitch? the whole >>> way that could easily cost more than $5,000,000. Can they turn that + the >>> branch routes out of Burnsville in 10 years? Maybe, but that?s really a tall >>> order. Not to mention the capital cost of the hardware - these switches at >>> the distribution point are very expensive. >>> >>> There?s a reason the Minneapolis WiFi project took off and succeed as >>> quickly as it did: the general cost to product a pole node and connection >>> back to the hub was about $4500 each. A little more or less depending on the >>> link type (copper, fiber or radio) and then have a radio technician come >>> back after the hardware is installed and lit up (powered) to tweak any >>> settings if needed. >>> >>> ? >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>> On 25.12.2014 14:02, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> >>> That?s 10GBE; We?ve had 1GBE in the city for almost 5 years now. >>> >>> Odds are the outer areas won?t get serviced simply due to cost - my last >>> job had a quote for $20,000 to get 1GBE service to our office in Cottage >>> Grove - and we had the school district literally across the highway. >>> >>> >>> ? >>> Ryan >>> >>> On Dec 25, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Saul Alanis wrote: >>> >>> I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned on the list: >>> >>> >>> http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_27194397/u-s-internet-rolls-out-faster-service-minneapolis >>> >>> A while back I heard the story on MPR how Google fiber attracts >>> entrepreneurs springing up shops like the kcstartupvillage in KC. >>> >>> http://www.kcstartupvillage.org/ >>> >>> TBH, I am quite tired of Comcast and hoping the City of Burnsville/Dakota >>> County will get their act together and join the 21st century. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cncole at earthlink.net Tue Dec 30 10:29:40 2014 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:29:40 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99C8E06628FA4BF39364BAF01548E3AA@d830a> > -----Original Message----- > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Munir Nassar > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:22 AM > To: TCLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? Generally forked up? :-) Chuck (thanks for the clarificaations!) > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Ryan Coleman > wrote: > > > > On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' > about my learning > > and my... so called research <--some scoff' > > > > The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux > <--from a basic > > standpoint as 'wishing to be smart' > > > > > > Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. > > Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still > alive and well > > (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and > then there's BSD > > which is another fork. > > Linux is NOT a fork from Unix, it is a combination of GNU, a > reimplementation(and betterment IMHO) of the Unix userland tools, with > a kernel written by Linus Torvalds, but these two are certainly not > the only parts in the system. People have tried in the past to claim > that Linux is a derivative of Unix but there is no factual basis to > this claim. > > Minix is another example of a reimplementation that does not share > code with the original Unix. > > the various BSDs and commercial UNIX offerings(HP's HP-UX, IBM's AIX, > Microsoft's(yes, THAT Microsoft) Xenix, SCO's(Novels?) UnixWare, > Digital's Tru64, Sun's SunOS/Solaris, Apple's OSX... etc) are all > forks and derivatives of the original Unix. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO%E2%80%93Linux_controversies > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Tue Dec 30 10:48:39 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:48:39 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BAF35C5-B6D7-4DE9-A21B-4ABD2FB50FF0@cwis.biz> Counter: http://www.pcworld.com/article/201983/is_linux_just_another_unix_flavor.html FTA: > Shown below is an excerpt from the Linux kernel source README file that explains the relationship between Linux and UNIX. Though there?s no author attribution for this file, it?s obvious that the definition it carries has the blessing of those who create the Linux kernel, including Linus himself: > >> WHAT IS LINUX? >> >> Linux is a clone of the operating system Unix, written from scratch by Linus Torvalds with assistance from a loosely-knit team of hackers across the Net. It aims towards POSIX and Single Unix Specification compliance. >> >> It has all the features you would expect in a modern fully-fledged Unix, including true multitasking, virtual memory, shared libraries, demand loading, shared copy-on-write executables, proper memory management, and multistack networking including IPv4 and IPv6. > You need not share code to call it a fork. As software and hardware grow up and become better the old bits are replaced with newer, better versions. You can take the source code, print it out, type it all up by hand and call it your own because, well, you typed it. Change all the variables and the order of the functions and now it?s changed enough you can claim it was not what was before. But if you?re not creating it all from scratch, doing all your work in the basic building blocks and create your own compiler then it?s originated from somewhere. When is a fork not a fork? When it?s a clone? http://vintagemacmuseum.com/send-in-the-clones/ I?d include the David Pogue parody from the May 1997 MacWorld but I fear it is not easy to find anymore. I used to have it stickied to my iPhone but that page is 404 now and I cannot find it on Archive.org. ? Ryan > On Dec 30, 2014, at 10:21 AM, Munir Nassar wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> >> On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning >> and my... so called research <--some scoff' >> >> The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic >> standpoint as 'wishing to be smart? >> >> >> Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. >> Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still alive and well >> (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and then there?s BSD >> which is another fork. > > Linux is NOT a fork from Unix, it is a combination of GNU, a > reimplementation(and betterment IMHO) of the Unix userland tools, with > a kernel written by Linus Torvalds, but these two are certainly not > the only parts in the system. People have tried in the past to claim > that Linux is a derivative of Unix but there is no factual basis to > this claim. > > Minix is another example of a reimplementation that does not share > code with the original Unix. > > the various BSDs and commercial UNIX offerings(HP's HP-UX, IBM's AIX, > Microsoft's(yes, THAT Microsoft) Xenix, SCO's(Novels?) UnixWare, > Digital's Tru64, Sun's SunOS/Solaris, Apple's OSX... etc) are all > forks and derivatives of the original Unix. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO%E2%80%93Linux_controversies > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 11:02:09 2014 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 11:02:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <4C770D70895545E2ACC03B23ECF9EDF1@d830a> Message-ID: <54A2DA91.9030205@gmail.com> On 12/30/2014 12:23 AM, paul g wrote: > Certainly you know best. Once again I will do as you say captain. > > Thank you for your time, Just install Slackware & be done with it already. From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:12:06 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:12:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee> From: nassarmu at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:21:47 -0600 > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > > > > On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' about my learning > > and my... so called research <--some scoff' > > > > The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux <--from a basic > > standpoint as 'wishing to be smart? > > > > > > Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. > > Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still alive and well > > (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and then there?s BSD > > which is another fork. > > Linux is NOT a fork from Unix, it is a combination of GNU, a > reimplementation(and betterment IMHO) of the Unix userland tools, with > a kernel written by Linus Torvalds, but these two are certainly not > the only parts in the system. People have tried in the past to claim > that Linux is a derivative of Unix but there is no factual basis to > this claim. > > Minix is another example of a reimplementation that does not share > code with the original Unix. > > the various BSDs and commercial UNIX offerings(HP's HP-UX, IBM's AIX, > Microsoft's(yes, THAT Microsoft) Xenix, SCO's(Novels?) UnixWare, > Digital's Tru64, Sun's SunOS/Solaris, Apple's OSX... etc) are all > forks and derivatives of the original Unix. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO%E2%80%93Linux_controversies > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:13:15 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:13:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <99C8E06628FA4BF39364BAF01548E3AA@d830a> References: , , , <99C8E06628FA4BF39364BAF01548E3AA@d830a> Message-ID: Gum Gum Gum ?> From: cncole at earthlink.net > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 10:29:40 -0600 > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org > > [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Munir Nassar > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:22 AM > > To: TCLUG Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > Generally forked up? :-) > > Chuck > > (thanks for the clarificaations!) > > > > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Ryan Coleman > > wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 29, 2014, at 11:08 PM, paul g wrote: > > > > > > As everyone knows my posts are basically 'or have been' > > about my learning > > > and my... so called research <--some scoff' > > > > > > The introduction of Unix now more commonly named GNU-Linux > > <--from a basic > > > standpoint as 'wishing to be smart' > > > > > > > > > Then you should understand and know that Linux is not Unix at all. > > > Linux is a fork from Unix from 20+ years ago. Unix is still > > alive and well > > > (HPUX, AIX). Linux covers those that are called Linux and > > then there's BSD > > > which is another fork. > > > > Linux is NOT a fork from Unix, it is a combination of GNU, a > > reimplementation(and betterment IMHO) of the Unix userland tools, with > > a kernel written by Linus Torvalds, but these two are certainly not > > the only parts in the system. People have tried in the past to claim > > that Linux is a derivative of Unix but there is no factual basis to > > this claim. > > > > Minix is another example of a reimplementation that does not share > > code with the original Unix. > > > > the various BSDs and commercial UNIX offerings(HP's HP-UX, IBM's AIX, > > Microsoft's(yes, THAT Microsoft) Xenix, SCO's(Novels?) UnixWare, > > Digital's Tru64, Sun's SunOS/Solaris, Apple's OSX... etc) are all > > forks and derivatives of the original Unix. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Unix > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO%E2%80%93Linux_controversies > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:16:26 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:16:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <54A2DA91.9030205@gmail.com> References: , , , , , , , <4C770D70895545E2ACC03B23ECF9EDF1@d830a>, , <54A2DA91.9030205@gmail.com> Message-ID: Bob, I appreciate your input but someone that is let's just say 'challenged' mentally such as myself could have bigger/broader problems with Slackware possibly. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you for your time, > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 11:02:09 -0600 > From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > On 12/30/2014 12:23 AM, paul g wrote: > > Certainly you know best. Once again I will do as you say captain. > > > > Thank you for your time, > > Just install Slackware & be done with it already. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug1 at whitleymott.net Tue Dec 30 13:37:31 2014 From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:37:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? Message-ID: > > bigger/broader problems with Slackware possibly. What are your thoughts on > this? > from what i read debian is likely more challenging than slackware. if you want an easier experience, i suggest lubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntustudio, edubuntu. i don't suggest ubuntu, debian, or fedora. i hear good things about mint, suse, and many others of course, but the ?*ubuntu flavors benefit from the huge repositories. as always ymmv.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 13:44:42 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:44:42 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greg the situation is with the newer Debian 3.13.0-24-generic kernel. There is just this 'HUGE' bug with the dvd/cd mount. We all know I am not a computer scientist but even someone like me has to wonder why this is. I am running Mint 17 on this particular system that I am typing this message on right now. Well, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter and happy holidays to you.?From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 13:37:31 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? bigger/broader problems with Slackware possibly. What are your thoughts on this? from what i read debian is likely more challenging than slackware. if you want an easier experience, i suggest lubuntu, xubuntu, ubuntustudio, edubuntu. i don't suggest ubuntu, debian, or fedora. i hear good things about mint, suse, and many others of course, but the ?*ubuntu flavors benefit from the huge repositories. as always ymmv.. _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 14:03:52 2014 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:03:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , <4C770D70895545E2ACC03B23ECF9EDF1@d830a>, , <54A2DA91.9030205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54A30528.9020600@gmail.com> On 12/30/2014 1:16 PM, paul g wrote: > Bob, I appreciate your input but someone that is let's just say > 'challenged' mentally such as myself could have bigger/broader problems > with Slackware possibly. What are your thoughts on this? No. It's probably the easiest to use in my opinion. For starters it works. Beyond that Slackware has a huge fantastic community for help & advice. Fire it up. You might like it. I've been using it since the mid 90's, and absolutely love it. No one can truely answer your original question but you. Just keep trying them until you find the right fit. This right distro is out there for you somewhere. From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 14:11:30 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:11:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <54A30528.9020600@gmail.com> References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , <4C770D70895545E2ACC03B23ECF9EDF1@d830a>, , , , <54A2DA91.9030205@gmail.com>, , <54A30528.9020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: I feel a bit 'bummed' out right now because I have been amped up on this LinuxMint kick for over a month now. I'll try n figure something out if I can. I had been considering Gentoo but then got overwhelmed but it still comes back to my mind. Thanks for your help with this situation. Happy Holidays to you as well. ? > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:03:52 -0600 > From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > On 12/30/2014 1:16 PM, paul g wrote: > > Bob, I appreciate your input but someone that is let's just say > > 'challenged' mentally such as myself could have bigger/broader problems > > with Slackware possibly. What are your thoughts on this? > > No. It's probably the easiest to use in my opinion. For starters it > works. Beyond that Slackware has a huge fantastic community for help & > advice. Fire it up. You might like it. > > I've been using it since the mid 90's, and absolutely love it. > > No one can truely answer your original question but you. Just keep > trying them until you find the right fit. This right distro is out > there for you somewhere. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mat at mthx.org Tue Dec 30 14:35:36 2014 From: mat at mthx.org (Marc Thomas) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:35:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1419971736.10976.0@smtp.gmail.com> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 2:11 PM, paul g wrote: > I feel a bit 'bummed' out right now because I have been amped up on > this LinuxMint kick for over a month now. I'll try n figure something > out if I can. I had been considering Gentoo but then got overwhelmed > but it still comes back to my mind. Thanks for your help with this > situation. Happy Holidays to you as well. Paul, If you are enjoying Linux Mint, then there is no need to move onto anything else. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Linux Mint if it is working for you. I used Mint for about 18 months back around Linux Mint 13. It's a great distro! I personally have jumped from a variety of distro's, mostly Fedora, Ubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Mint, Antergos, and Arch. I have landed on Arch and have stuck with it since February this year and don't have any immediate plans to change my default. While I still enjoy spinning up a new version of a distro in a VM, and sometimes on hardware, I don't feel the need to do that except for exploration and education. Don't feel that you need to try something different, or "more challenging" like Gentoo/Slackware/Arch/etc unless your in it for the self education. If what you have is working for you, then stick with it! > > > > > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:03:52 -0600 > > From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > > > On 12/30/2014 1:16 PM, paul g wrote: > > > Bob, I appreciate your input but someone that is let's just say > > > 'challenged' mentally such as myself could have bigger/broader > problems > > > with Slackware possibly. What are your thoughts on this? > > > > No. It's probably the easiest to use in my opinion. For starters it > > works. Beyond that Slackware has a huge fantastic community for > help & > > advice. Fire it up. You might like it. > > > > I've been using it since the mid 90's, and absolutely love it. > > > > No one can truely answer your original question but you. Just keep > > trying them until you find the right fit. This right distro is out > > there for you somewhere. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Marc Thomas mthx.org | Github: mthxx | @mthx_ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at lunn.ch Tue Dec 30 14:32:35 2014 From: andrew at lunn.ch (Andrew Lunn) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 21:32:35 +0100 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20141230203235.GE26717@lunn.ch> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 01:44:42PM -0600, paul g wrote: > Greg the situation is with the newer Debian 3.13.0-24-generic > kernel. There is just this 'HUGE' bug with the dvd/cd mount. HUGE bugs generally got stomped on quickly. HUGE is also somewhat a personal opinion. dvd/cd are going the way of the Dodo anyway, so who really cares? I cannot remember the last time i put a data CD/DVD in my driver. Current Debian does seem to do the right thing with Audio CDs, i used that a few times recently. Going back to the originally question, no distro is perfect. Each has there own issues. What is a HUGE issue for somebody might not even be noticed by others. It is often a case of pick your poison and give it a go. I've used Debian for donkeys years. I've been happy with it, but i'm a full on Computer Scientist, so user friendly clicky bunty is lower down my feature list than give my the power of a command line. That is not to say Debian does not do clicky bunty... Andrew From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 15:52:50 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 15:52:50 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <20141230203235.GE26717@lunn.ch> References: , , <20141230203235.GE26717@lunn.ch> Message-ID: Thank you for taking your time to write Andrew. I was really thinking it is a major bug I guess I was used to how nice everything worked in Mint Maya as far as dvd/cd mounting. Happy Holidays to you as well. ? paul g > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 21:32:35 +0100 > From: andrew at lunn.ch > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 01:44:42PM -0600, paul g wrote: > > Greg the situation is with the newer Debian 3.13.0-24-generic > > kernel. There is just this 'HUGE' bug with the dvd/cd mount. > > HUGE bugs generally got stomped on quickly. HUGE is also somewhat a > personal opinion. dvd/cd are going the way of the Dodo anyway, so who > really cares? I cannot remember the last time i put a data CD/DVD in > my driver. Current Debian does seem to do the right thing with Audio > CDs, i used that a few times recently. > > Going back to the originally question, no distro is perfect. Each has > there own issues. What is a HUGE issue for somebody might not even be > noticed by others. It is often a case of pick your poison and give it > a go. > > I've used Debian for donkeys years. I've been happy with it, but i'm a > full on Computer Scientist, so user friendly clicky bunty is lower > down my feature list than give my the power of a command line. That is > not to say Debian does not do clicky bunty... > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 15:54:01 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 15:54:01 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <1419971736.10976.0@smtp.gmail.com> References: , <1419971736.10976.0@smtp.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for taking your time to reply to my question Marc. Happy Holidays to you as well. ? paul g Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:35:36 -0600 From: mat at mthx.org To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 2:11 PM, paul g wrote: I feel a bit 'bummed' out right now because I have been amped up on this LinuxMint kick for over a month now. I'll try n figure something out if I can. I had been considering Gentoo but then got overwhelmed but it still comes back to my mind. Thanks for your help with this situation. Happy Holidays to you as well. ? Paul, If you are enjoying Linux Mint, then there is no need to move onto anything else. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Linux Mint if it is working for you. I used Mint for about 18 months back around Linux Mint 13. It's a great distro! I personally have jumped from a variety of distro's, mostly Fedora, Ubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Mint, Antergos, and Arch. I have landed on Arch and have stuck with it since February this year and don't have any immediate plans to change my default. While I still enjoy spinning up a new version of a distro in a VM, and sometimes on hardware, I don't feel the need to do that except for exploration and education. Don't feel that you need to try something different, or "more challenging" like Gentoo/Slackware/Arch/etc unless your in it for the self education. If what you have is working for you, then stick with it! > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 14:03:52 -0600 > From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > On 12/30/2014 1:16 PM, paul g wrote: > > Bob, I appreciate your input but someone that is let's just say > > 'challenged' mentally such as myself could have bigger/broader problems > > with Slackware possibly. What are your thoughts on this? > > No. It's probably the easiest to use in my opinion. For starters it > works. Beyond that Slackware has a huge fantastic community for help & > advice. Fire it up. You might like it. > > I've been using it since the mid 90's, and absolutely love it. > > No one can truely answer your original question but you. Just keep > trying them until you find the right fit. This right distro is out > there for you somewhere. > > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Marc Thomas mthx.org | Github: mthxx | @mthx_ _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 18:13:43 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 18:13:43 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <20141230203235.GE26717@lunn.ch> References: , , <20141230203235.GE26717@lunn.ch> Message-ID: Andrew, I apologize for writing again but do you forsee this particular bug being fixed anytime soon? I believe a bug report was filed on it back in October of 2013. Happy Holidays' ? paul g > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 21:32:35 +0100 > From: andrew at lunn.ch > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 01:44:42PM -0600, paul g wrote: > > Greg the situation is with the newer Debian 3.13.0-24-generic > > kernel. There is just this 'HUGE' bug with the dvd/cd mount. > > HUGE bugs generally got stomped on quickly. HUGE is also somewhat a > personal opinion. dvd/cd are going the way of the Dodo anyway, so who > really cares? I cannot remember the last time i put a data CD/DVD in > my driver. Current Debian does seem to do the right thing with Audio > CDs, i used that a few times recently. > > Going back to the originally question, no distro is perfect. Each has > there own issues. What is a HUGE issue for somebody might not even be > noticed by others. It is often a case of pick your poison and give it > a go. > > I've used Debian for donkeys years. I've been happy with it, but i'm a > full on Computer Scientist, so user friendly clicky bunty is lower > down my feature list than give my the power of a command line. That is > not to say Debian does not do clicky bunty... > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at lunn.ch Tue Dec 30 19:28:22 2014 From: andrew at lunn.ch (Andrew Lunn) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 02:28:22 +0100 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: References: <20141230203235.GE26717@lunn.ch> Message-ID: <20141231012822.GA26068@lunn.ch> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 06:13:43PM -0600, paul g wrote: > Andrew, I apologize for writing again but do you forsee this > particular bug being fixed anytime soon? I believe a bug report was > filed on it back in October of 2013. Hi Paul Can you point me at the bug report? Andrew From pj.world at hotmail.com Tue Dec 30 19:56:59 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 19:56:59 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? In-Reply-To: <20141231012822.GA26068@lunn.ch> References: , , <20141230203235.GE26717@lunn.ch>, , <20141231012822.GA26068@lunn.ch> Message-ID: Hey Andrew, Ya, there are a few links below: these 3 caught my eye the most. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=725978 <--post #50 kinda caught my eye when I was reading through. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=713877 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=753379 Someone said to: So, use the file manager to find the file /etc/rc.local. Right-click over it and select ''Open as root'' or ''Open as administrator''. Add the line suggested so the last lines look like... [list=] echo 2000 > /sys/module/block/parameters/events_dfl_poll_msecs exit 0 [/list] Save the file. If the Debian explorers are correct, next boot will see the problem fixed. BUT: after that others had issues with 'CD' detection etc. What is your opinion on this? Take your time. I would just really like your opinion. Thanks again, Happy Holidays to you. ? Paul G > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 02:28:22 +0100 > From: andrew at lunn.ch > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Manjero or Mint? > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 06:13:43PM -0600, paul g wrote: > > > Andrew, I apologize for writing again but do you forsee this > > particular bug being fixed anytime soon? I believe a bug report was > > filed on it back in October of 2013. > > Hi Paul > > Can you point me at the bug report? > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 05:46:47 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 05:46:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel Message-ID: It appears as that 'YouTube' music videos are not working 'out of box' with the newer 3.13 Kernel. Kernel 3.2.etc seems to work fine. Can anyone recommend a solution beyond this link --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 every time Firefox is loaded persay/systemwide This affects Debian based systems and yes as we well know Mainly LinuxMint. Thank you for your time, ? Paul G -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 08:47:27 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:47:27 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From the page you linked: " Many YouTube videos will play using HTML5 in supported browsers. You can request that the HTML5 player be used if your browser doesn't use it by default. If you encounter any problems, right-click on the player and choose "report playback issue", or let us know on the user support forums . Your feedback will help us continue to improve the player." Of the 6 technologies listed, how many of them (and which ones) are supported by your browser? Which version of Firefox are you using? Is it actually Firefox and not something like IceWeasel? I doubt that this is a kernel-level issue. Jeff On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:46 AM, paul g wrote: > It appears as that 'YouTube' music videos are not working 'out of box' > with the newer 3.13 Kernel. Kernel 3.2.etc seems to work fine. Can anyone > recommend a solution beyond this link --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 > every time Firefox is loaded persay/systemwide > > This affects Debian based systems and yes as we well know Mainly > LinuxMint. > > Thank you for your time, [image: Emoji] > > Paul G > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 11:10:31 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:10:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Verified to be Firefox 34.0 from my end here. Now it's actually the same with the 3.2 kernel as the 3.13 kernel. I tick this link then all works fine. https://www.youtube.com/html5 'The HTML5 player is currently used when possible.' Not Iceweasel at all don't even have it installed. Hey, by now you should know the deal either way ? <-- What are your thoughts? Happy Holiday's to you sir. Paul G Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:47:27 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel From the page you linked: " Many YouTube videos will play using HTML5 in supported browsers. You can request that the HTML5 player be used if your browser doesn't use it by default. If you encounter any problems, right-click on the player and choose "report playback issue", or let us know on the user support forums. Your feedback will help us continue to improve the player." Of the 6 technologies listed, how many of them (and which ones) are supported by your browser? Which version of Firefox are you using? Is it actually Firefox and not something like IceWeasel? I doubt that this is a kernel-level issue. Jeff On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:46 AM, paul g wrote: It appears as that 'YouTube' music videos are not working 'out of box' with the newer 3.13 Kernel. Kernel 3.2.etc seems to work fine. Can anyone recommend a solution beyond this link --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 every time Firefox is loaded persay/systemwide This affects Debian based systems and yes as we well know Mainly LinuxMint. Thank you for your time, ? Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 11:20:47 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:20:47 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't see how, or why this would be kernel related. Firefox 34 works as expected on Fedora. Jeff On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:10 AM, paul g wrote: > Verified to be Firefox 34.0 from my end here. Now it's actually the same > with the 3.2 kernel as the 3.13 kernel. I tick this link then all works > fine. https://www.youtube.com/html5 'The HTML5 player is currently used > when possible.' Not Iceweasel at all don't even have it installed. > > Hey, by now you should know the deal either way [image: Emoji] <-- What > are your thoughts? > > Happy Holiday's to you sir. > > Paul G > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:47:27 -0600 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > > From the page you linked: " > Many YouTube videos will play using HTML5 in supported browsers. You can > request that the HTML5 player be used if your browser doesn't use it by > default. > If you encounter any problems, right-click on the player and choose > "report playback issue", or let us know on the user support forums > . Your feedback > will help us continue to improve the player." > > > Of the 6 technologies listed, how many of them (and which ones) are > supported by your browser? Which version of Firefox are you using? Is it > actually Firefox and not something like IceWeasel? > > > > I doubt that this is a kernel-level issue. > > > > Jeff > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:46 AM, paul g wrote: > > It appears as that 'YouTube' music videos are not working 'out of box' > with the newer 3.13 Kernel. Kernel 3.2.etc seems to work fine. Can anyone > recommend a solution beyond this link --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 > every time Firefox is loaded persay/systemwide > > This affects Debian based systems and yes as we well know Mainly > LinuxMint. > > Thank you for your time, [image: Emoji] > > Paul G > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Wed Dec 31 11:21:15 2014 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:21:15 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: <, > Message-ID: Paul, You can stop focusing on the kernel version as it has nothing to do with this. Kernel issues show up in much different ways - panics, core dumps, etc. (in my experience). Have you tried another browser? An older version of Firefox? > On Dec 31, 2014, at 11:10 AM, paul g wrote: > > Verified to be Firefox 34.0 from my end here. Now it's actually the same with the 3.2 kernel as the 3.13 kernel. I tick this link then all works fine. https://www.youtube.com/html5 'The HTML5 player is currently used when possible.' Not Iceweasel at all don't even have it installed. > > Hey, by now you should know the deal either way <-- What are your thoughts? > > Happy Holiday's to you sir. > > Paul G -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 11:37:08 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:37:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: <, >, , , Message-ID: Ryan, yes I tried and installed 'Opera' same problem occurs. by the way! ---> ? <---Happy Holiday's to you as well. Paul G From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:21:15 -0600 To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel Paul, You can stop focusing on the kernel version as it has nothing to do with this. Kernel issues show up in much different ways - panics, core dumps, etc. (in my experience). Have you tried another browser? An older version of Firefox? On Dec 31, 2014, at 11:10 AM, paul g wrote:Verified to be Firefox 34.0 from my end here. Now it's actually the same with the 3.2 kernel as the 3.13 kernel. I tick this link then all works fine. https://www.youtube.com/html5 'The HTML5 player is currently used when possible.' Not Iceweasel at all don't even have it installed. Hey, by now you should know the deal either way <-- What are your thoughts? Happy Holiday's to you sir. Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 11:35:14 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:35:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: Very odd - as I have Firefox 34.0 on Mint17 --> Edit --> Preferences --> Privacy --> History --> Firefox will never remember history 'clkd'. I even tried to play a couple songs on my laptop which is 32 bit Mint17 Maya last evening and I had to specifically 'enable html5 player' or I get the 'An error occured please try again later' message. I attached a screenshot of the error message. So basically now for me I have to specifically enable the 'HTML5' player via this link n songs play fine - in the browser then. --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 Well it's probably not kernel related then your knowledge is respected. Could my ISP be doing something? I am just really wondering here. Paul G Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:20:47 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel I don't see how, or why this would be kernel related. Firefox 34 works as expected on Fedora. Jeff On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:10 AM, paul g wrote: Verified to be Firefox 34.0 from my end here. Now it's actually the same with the 3.2 kernel as the 3.13 kernel. I tick this link then all works fine. https://www.youtube.com/html5 'The HTML5 player is currently used when possible.' Not Iceweasel at all don't even have it installed. Hey, by now you should know the deal either way ? <-- What are your thoughts? Happy Holiday's to you sir. Paul G Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:47:27 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel From the page you linked: " Many YouTube videos will play using HTML5 in supported browsers. You can request that the HTML5 player be used if your browser doesn't use it by default. If you encounter any problems, right-click on the player and choose "report playback issue", or let us know on the user support forums. Your feedback will help us continue to improve the player." Of the 6 technologies listed, how many of them (and which ones) are supported by your browser? Which version of Firefox are you using? Is it actually Firefox and not something like IceWeasel? I doubt that this is a kernel-level issue. Jeff On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:46 AM, paul g wrote: It appears as that 'YouTube' music videos are not working 'out of box' with the newer 3.13 Kernel. Kernel 3.2.etc seems to work fine. Can anyone recommend a solution beyond this link --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 every time Firefox is loaded persay/systemwide This affects Debian based systems and yes as we well know Mainly LinuxMint. Thank you for your time, ? Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-1.png Type: image/png Size: 229070 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 13:29:38 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:29:38 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:35 AM, paul g wrote: > Very odd - as I have Firefox 34.0 on Mint17 --> Edit --> Preferences --> > Privacy --> History --> Firefox will never remember history 'clkd'. I even > tried to play a couple songs on my laptop which is 32 bit Mint17 Maya last > evening and I had to specifically 'enable html5 player' or I get the 'An > error occured please try again later' message. I attached a screenshot of > the error message. So basically now for me I have to specifically enable > the 'HTML5' player via this link n songs play fine - in the browser then. > --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 > > Well it's probably not kernel related then your knowledge is respected. > Could my ISP be doing something? I am just really wondering here. > > Paul G > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:20:47 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > I don't see how, or why this would be kernel related. > > Firefox 34 works as expected on Fedora. > > Jeff > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:10 AM, paul g wrote: > > Verified to be Firefox 34.0 from my end here. Now it's actually the same > with the 3.2 kernel as the 3.13 kernel. I tick this link then all works > fine. https://www.youtube.com/html5 'The HTML5 player is currently used > when possible.' Not Iceweasel at all don't even have it installed. > > Hey, by now you should know the deal either way [image: Emoji] <-- What > are your thoughts? > > Happy Holiday's to you sir. > > Paul G > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:47:27 -0600 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > > From the page you linked: " > Many YouTube videos will play using HTML5 in supported browsers. You can > request that the HTML5 player be used if your browser doesn't use it by > default. > If you encounter any problems, right-click on the player and choose > "report playback issue", or let us know on the user support forums > . Your feedback > will help us continue to improve the player." > > > Of the 6 technologies listed, how many of them (and which ones) are > supported by your browser? Which version of Firefox are you using? Is it > actually Firefox and not something like IceWeasel? > > > > I doubt that this is a kernel-level issue. > > > > Jeff > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:46 AM, paul g wrote: > > It appears as that 'YouTube' music videos are not working 'out of box' > with the newer 3.13 Kernel. Kernel 3.2.etc seems to work fine. Can anyone > recommend a solution beyond this link --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 > every time Firefox is loaded persay/systemwide > > This affects Debian based systems and yes as we well know Mainly > LinuxMint. > > Thank you for your time, [image: Emoji] > > Paul G > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 13:39:26 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:39:26 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , Message-ID: Yes, Flash is installed 'I believe' if I go to this website --> http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ I get a report 'you have version 11.2.202.425 installed. I attached a screenshot just to kinda try to show you the output as far as that goes. I attached another screenshot of Synaptic's take on this situation as well. Thank you for your help. ? - Happy Holiday's Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:29:38 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:35 AM, paul g wrote: Very odd - as I have Firefox 34.0 on Mint17 --> Edit --> Preferences --> Privacy --> History --> Firefox will never remember history 'clkd'. I even tried to play a couple songs on my laptop which is 32 bit Mint17 Maya last evening and I had to specifically 'enable html5 player' or I get the 'An error occured please try again later' message. I attached a screenshot of the error message. So basically now for me I have to specifically enable the 'HTML5' player via this link n songs play fine - in the browser then. --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 Well it's probably not kernel related then your knowledge is respected. Could my ISP be doing something? I am just really wondering here. Paul G Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 11:20:47 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel I don't see how, or why this would be kernel related. Firefox 34 works as expected on Fedora. Jeff On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:10 AM, paul g wrote: Verified to be Firefox 34.0 from my end here. Now it's actually the same with the 3.2 kernel as the 3.13 kernel. I tick this link then all works fine. https://www.youtube.com/html5 'The HTML5 player is currently used when possible.' Not Iceweasel at all don't even have it installed. Hey, by now you should know the deal either way <-- What are your thoughts? Happy Holiday's to you sir. Paul G Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 08:47:27 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel From the page you linked: " Many YouTube videos will play using HTML5 in supported browsers. You can request that the HTML5 player be used if your browser doesn't use it by default. If you encounter any problems, right-click on the player and choose "report playback issue", or let us know on the user support forums. Your feedback will help us continue to improve the player." Of the 6 technologies listed, how many of them (and which ones) are supported by your browser? Which version of Firefox are you using? Is it actually Firefox and not something like IceWeasel? I doubt that this is a kernel-level issue. Jeff On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:46 AM, paul g wrote: It appears as that 'YouTube' music videos are not working 'out of box' with the newer 3.13 Kernel. Kernel 3.2.etc seems to work fine. Can anyone recommend a solution beyond this link --> https://www.youtube.com/html5 every time Firefox is loaded persay/systemwide This affects Debian based systems and yes as we well know Mainly LinuxMint. Thank you for your time, ? Paul G _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-2.png Type: image/png Size: 109697 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-3.png Type: image/png Size: 159202 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sfertch at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 13:57:23 2014 From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:57:23 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use the old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > > The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > > Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 13:58:36 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some time, too. That's most likely it. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use the > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: >> >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. >> >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 15:46:31 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 15:46:31 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , Message-ID: You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for your help. ? - Happy Holidays Paul G > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > time, too. That's most likely it. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use the > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > >> > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > >> > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 16:04:06 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as previously mentioned? On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: > You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in > and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks > as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that > Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I > ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for > your help. > > [image: Emoji] - Happy Holidays > > Paul G > > > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > > time, too. That's most likely it. > > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use > the > > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > > >> > > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > > >> > > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 16:12:08 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:12:08 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Would you please break down how exactly how I can 'authorize Firefox to use the outdated flash plugin'? Sorry to bug you. Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as previously mentioned? On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for your help. ? - Happy Holidays Paul G > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > time, too. That's most likely it. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use the > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > >> > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > >> > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 16:15:46 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:15:46 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUJMZbNR0d0 On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:12 PM, paul g wrote: > Would you please break down how exactly how I can 'authorize Firefox to > use the outdated flash plugin'? Sorry to bug you. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as > previously mentioned? > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: > > You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in > and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks > as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that > Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I > ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for > your help. > > [image: Emoji] - Happy Holidays > > Paul G > > > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > > time, too. That's most likely it. > > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use > the > > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > > >> > > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > > >> > > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 16:16:16 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:16:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can also click on the warning and authorize flash to run either once, or always. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUJMZbNR0d0 > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:12 PM, paul g wrote: > >> Would you please break down how exactly how I can 'authorize Firefox to >> use the outdated flash plugin'? Sorry to bug you. >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 >> >> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel >> >> Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as >> previously mentioned? >> >> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: >> >> You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged >> in and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It >> looks as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though >> that Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. >> Could I ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? >> Thanks for your help. >> >> [image: Emoji] - Happy Holidays >> >> Paul G >> >> > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 >> > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com >> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel >> > >> > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some >> > time, too. That's most likely it. >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch >> wrote: >> > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself >> on >> > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use >> the >> > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current >> Fedora. >> > > >> > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: >> > >> >> > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. >> > >> >> > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, >> I >> > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jeff Chapin >> > President, CedarLug, retired >> > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> > President, UNI Scuba Club >> > Senator, NISG, retired >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Chapin >> President, CedarLug, retired >> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" >> President, UNI Scuba Club >> Senator, NISG, retired >> >> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - >> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> >> > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 16:36:04 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:36:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: What version of flash are you running over there? I attached a screenshot of the installed plugins currently on my system. So I should run an older version --> like which version then? I could manually install a version via terminal I suppose. Thanks for helping as I am sure your aware of my struggles trying to figure any of this stuff out. ? - Happy Holidays Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:16:16 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel You can also click on the warning and authorize flash to run either once, or always. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUJMZbNR0d0 On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:12 PM, paul g wrote: Would you please break down how exactly how I can 'authorize Firefox to use the outdated flash plugin'? Sorry to bug you. Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as previously mentioned? On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for your help. - Happy Holidays Paul G > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > time, too. That's most likely it. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use the > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > >> > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > >> > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-1.png Type: image/png Size: 91798 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-2.png Type: image/png Size: 15924 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 16:39:04 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:39:04 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm running Version: 11.2.202.406 of flash, so not much older. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:36 PM, paul g wrote: > What version of flash are you running over there? I attached a screenshot > of the installed plugins currently on my system. So I should run an older > version --> like which version then? I could manually install a version via > terminal I suppose. Thanks for helping as I am sure your aware of my > struggles trying to figure any of this stuff out. > > [image: Emoji] - Happy Holidays > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:16:16 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > You can also click on the warning and authorize flash to run either once, > or always. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUJMZbNR0d0 > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:12 PM, paul g wrote: > > Would you please break down how exactly how I can 'authorize Firefox to > use the outdated flash plugin'? Sorry to bug you. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as > previously mentioned? > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: > > You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in > and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks > as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that > Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I > ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for > your help. > > [image: Emoji] - Happy Holidays > > Paul G > > > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > > time, too. That's most likely it. > > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use > the > > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > > >> > > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > > >> > > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.world at hotmail.com Wed Dec 31 17:12:14 2014 From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 17:12:14 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Message-ID: Have you tried out Lightspark at all personally? Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:39:04 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel I'm running Version: 11.2.202.406 of flash, so not much older. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:36 PM, paul g wrote: What version of flash are you running over there? I attached a screenshot of the installed plugins currently on my system. So I should run an older version --> like which version then? I could manually install a version via terminal I suppose. Thanks for helping as I am sure your aware of my struggles trying to figure any of this stuff out. ? - Happy Holidays Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:16:16 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel You can also click on the warning and authorize flash to run either once, or always. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUJMZbNR0d0 On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:12 PM, paul g wrote: Would you please break down how exactly how I can 'authorize Firefox to use the outdated flash plugin'? Sorry to bug you. Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as previously mentioned? On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for your help. ? - Happy Holidays Paul G > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > time, too. That's most likely it. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use the > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > >> > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > >> > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chapinjeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 18:12:25 2014 From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 18:12:25 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: no. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:12 PM, paul g wrote: > Have you tried out Lightspark at all personally? > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:39:04 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > I'm running Version: 11.2.202.406 of flash, so not much older. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:36 PM, paul g wrote: > > What version of flash are you running over there? I attached a screenshot > of the installed plugins currently on my system. So I should run an older > version --> like which version then? I could manually install a version via > terminal I suppose. Thanks for helping as I am sure your aware of my > struggles trying to figure any of this stuff out. > > [image: Emoji] - Happy Holidays > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:16:16 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > You can also click on the warning and authorize flash to run either once, > or always. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jeff Chapin wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUJMZbNR0d0 > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:12 PM, paul g wrote: > > Would you please break down how exactly how I can 'authorize Firefox to > use the outdated flash plugin'? Sorry to bug you. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 16:04:06 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > Do you need to authorize firefox to use the outdated flash plugin, as > previously mentioned? > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, paul g wrote: > > You know I just took a little break from it. I did a hard reboot logged in > and opened Opera went to YouTube and the music-videos work fine. It looks > as is Firefox and not Opera is having the issue. I could swear though that > Opera was not working with the music - videos earlier this morning. Could I > ask for your advice and take on what you would recommend I do? Thanks for > your help. > > [image: Emoji] - Happy Holidays > > Paul G > > > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2014 13:58:36 -0600 > > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com > > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] html5 on 3.13.etc kernel > > > > Now that you mention it, I think I have been doing that for quite some > > time, too. That's most likely it. > > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Shawn Fertch wrote: > > > I thought Adobe killed Flash for Linux. I run into this issue myself on > > > YouTube, etc but havent had time to fix it. So, I just tell it to use > the > > > old version of flash even if it is outdated. This is on current Fedora. > > > > > > On Dec 31, 2014 1:30 PM, "Jeff Chapin" wrote: > > >> > > >> The likelihood of this being related to ISP behavior is slim to none. > > >> > > >> Have you installed flash? If you don't want to use the html5 player, I > > >> believe you have to have flash installed and working correctly. > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jeff Chapin > > President, CedarLug, retired > > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > > President, UNI Scuba Club > > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > > > > -- > Jeff Chapin > President, CedarLug, retired > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" > President, UNI Scuba Club > Senator, NISG, retired > > _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - > Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > -- Jeff Chapin President, CedarLug, retired President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it" President, UNI Scuba Club Senator, NISG, retired -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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