From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sat Nov  1 05:46:12 2014
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 05:46:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] two gateways
Message-ID: <rvqid9rek47seps3b30fh2wb.1414838770196@email.android.com>

The most effective way to use a multihomed router is to use BGP. To do this you'd need several things: an ASN, PI or PA address space of a /24 for IPv4 or a /48 for IPv6 and upstream ISP's who will do connect to you over BGP.

Assuming you're dealing with a more consumer/residential type scenario there are a number of appliances that will do this. Assuming you're using NAT with two different public addresses you'll have to maintain existing connections across the same link otherwise if you change IP addresses in the middle of an established connection the other side will drop/kill the unexpected new IP address' packets. I am not sure if Fatpipe is still around but they've had appliances that will handle this. There are others too.?

If you want to go homegrown then you'll have to start digging into iptables and get very familiar with the snat commands and write some wrapper scripts around iptables to make changes on the fly. There may be some applications out there that do this already I don't know, have not looked. I know pf on BSD systems can do this pretty well but that is not Ubuntu obviously.?






<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> </div><div>Date:10/31/2014  12:56 PM  (GMT-06:00) </div><div>To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org </div><div>Subject: [tclug-list] two gateways </div><div>
</div>when two gateways are available, i want to monitor response times and use whichever is responding	better.  this raises several questions.  this is presumably the sort of thing heavyweight routers do all the time?  but my peon ubuntu probably needs either special software or clever configuration?  an established connection is confined to its established route, or not necessarily?  for worthwhile pointers i would be very grateful, tia.
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat Nov  1 17:12:27 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 17:12:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

I'm surprised this didn't come up here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)

I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS 
Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Nov  1 17:27:17 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 17:27:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>

Yeah, that was ages ago (in computer terms). Pretty sure all the main 
distros have already addressed it.

On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:

> I'm surprised this didn't come up here.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)
>
> I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS 
> Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sat Nov  1 17:31:37 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 17:31:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] elusive wifi
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CnJkAJ8-iNhSm+N168yD6n9JZkgooZSbEQuyhC=sPOmg@mail.gmail.com>

it works when the firmware-b43-installer package is installed, on either
precise or trusty.

when i first installed precise on this lappy last february i installed both
lubuntu and kubuntu simultaneously.  kubuntu includes
firmware-b43-installer, lubuntu doesn't.  if installing plain lubuntu,
adding firmware-b43-installer is needed.


On 12 October 2014 01:27, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> >  #  lspci
> >...
> > 05:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4311 802.11b/g WLAN
> (rev 01)
> >...
>
> On 11 October 2014 08:47, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>
>> Could you post chipset details of lspci output, or if usb, lsusb?
>>
>> Usually with the newer kernels they are adding drivers, not removing
>> them, so unless Precise was using a wrapper with additional
>> configuration or you installed some funky firmware to establish wifi
>> connectivity previously, it should work.
>>
>> My bet is some firmware didn't get installed on your latest installs
>> and it's likely a Broadcom wifi card since you mentioned an older
>> laptop and are using some older kernel versions. If so, I'd look into
>> getting the appropriate firmware to supplement the kernel drivers.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 12:31 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>> > i prepared a thumbdrive with grub and a selection of lubuntu iso's for
>> easy
>> > installing.  then tested in a free partition on a (dell inspiron)
>> laptop.
>> > installed trusty.  no wifi.  installed precise.  no wifi.  but huh?!
>> this
>> > laptop has been running precise for ages, and still is, not in the test
>> > partition, and wifi works just fine there!  i installed it myself, ages
>> ago,
>> > and don't remember having to do anything odd or special.
>> >
>> > can anyone drop me some clues how to make wifi work on the new
>> installs, or
>> > what to compare between the two partitions?
>>
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sat Nov  1 20:12:19 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:12:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>

Yep. FreeBSD and Ubuntu (my two systems) both had patches up within 48 hours.


> On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> 
> Yeah, that was ages ago (in computer terms). Pretty sure all the main distros have already addressed it.
> 
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> 
>> I'm surprised this didn't come up here.
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)
>> 
>> I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!
>> 
>> Mike
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov  1 20:22:47 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:22:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO0RSQ=zASFM+sH5X8ewrAt2bO2H-OaR9r0BzVZ=wpWOCA@mail.gmail.com>

Patch after patch after patch ?

--
Jeremy
On Nov 1, 2014 8:12 PM, "Ryan Coleman" <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

> Yep. FreeBSD and Ubuntu (my two systems) both had patches up within 48
> hours.
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, that was ages ago (in computer terms). Pretty sure all the main
> distros have already addressed it.
> >
> > On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> >
> >> I'm surprised this didn't come up here.
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)
> >>
> >> I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS
> Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Sat Nov  1 23:52:23 2014
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael Anon)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 23:52:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1410262249490.10671@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY168-W165ECDD700EE4A7BB3172099910@phx.gbl>
 <CACEdYO1vx54i0r86bDZMBpGYwD_bLVhZsMHEcWd+yq+J-urJ8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <544D722F.1050107@e-skinner.net>
 <CACEdYO09_gp96bNUFmYtrtXO3SYr+s4sLt=Liu8iFU4SM79TWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <544DBB96.6030706@e-skinner.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1410262249490.10671@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CA+V7kPrRiNWqowouRVwxkA+ceF79MQbDPDHnteJi8=yYidyuYA@mail.gmail.com>

me too

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:49 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> That's what I thought, too.
>
>
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Marc Skinner wrote:
>
>  Too funny - this is what I thought of when I heard Maya -
>>
>> http://www.autodesk.com/products/maya/overview
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/2014 05:46 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>
>>> Most of them don't crash, especially without proprietary drivers and
>>> sticking with CLI ;-)
>>>
>>> Maya is Mint Linux.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com <mailto:Jeremy.
>>> MountainJohnson at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net
>>> <mailto:marc at e-skinner.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     One that doesn't crash!  :)
>>>
>>>     What distro are you running? - that might help us guide you to a
>>>     kernel.  Typically, you want to be running the latest kernel for the
>>>     particular distro, as it will have the latest security, and bug
>>>     patches already applied.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 10/26/2014 07:58 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>>
>>>         Depends; what are you wanting out of it? More hardware support?
>>>         Tweaked
>>>         for desktop?
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>>         Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.__com
>>>         <mailto:Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:Jeremy.__MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com>>
>>>
>>>         On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com
>>>         <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>              What is the best kernel to run with Maya?
>>>
>>>              _________________________________________________
>>>              TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.__org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.
>>> org>>
>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         _________________________________________________
>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _________________________________________________
>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Sat Nov  1 23:53:20 2014
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael Anon)
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 23:53:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.
In-Reply-To: <CA+V7kPrRiNWqowouRVwxkA+ceF79MQbDPDHnteJi8=yYidyuYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY168-W165ECDD700EE4A7BB3172099910@phx.gbl>
 <CACEdYO1vx54i0r86bDZMBpGYwD_bLVhZsMHEcWd+yq+J-urJ8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <544D722F.1050107@e-skinner.net>
 <CACEdYO09_gp96bNUFmYtrtXO3SYr+s4sLt=Liu8iFU4SM79TWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <544DBB96.6030706@e-skinner.net>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1410262249490.10671@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CA+V7kPrRiNWqowouRVwxkA+ceF79MQbDPDHnteJi8=yYidyuYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+V7kPobuRQSt_OnRL_fOmBr0ZavQA7wjjB47OcqOjZ3_UZVew@mail.gmail.com>

thinking why not use blender.

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Samael Anon <samael.anon at gmail.com> wrote:

> me too
>
> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:49 PM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>
>> That's what I thought, too.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Marc Skinner wrote:
>>
>>  Too funny - this is what I thought of when I heard Maya -
>>>
>>> http://www.autodesk.com/products/maya/overview
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/26/2014 05:46 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most of them don't crash, especially without proprietary drivers and
>>>> sticking with CLI ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Maya is Mint Linux.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com <mailto:Jeremy.
>>>> MountainJohnson at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net
>>>> <mailto:marc at e-skinner.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     One that doesn't crash!  :)
>>>>
>>>>     What distro are you running? - that might help us guide you to a
>>>>     kernel.  Typically, you want to be running the latest kernel for the
>>>>     particular distro, as it will have the latest security, and bug
>>>>     patches already applied.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On 10/26/2014 07:58 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Depends; what are you wanting out of it? More hardware support?
>>>>         Tweaked
>>>>         for desktop?
>>>>
>>>>         --
>>>>         Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>>>         Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.__com
>>>>         <mailto:Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com>
>>>>         <mailto:Jeremy.__MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com>>
>>>>
>>>>         On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com>
>>>>         <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>              What is the best kernel to run with Maya?
>>>>
>>>>              _________________________________________________
>>>>              TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.__org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.
>>>> org>>
>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _________________________________________________
>>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _________________________________________________
>>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 00:53:39 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 00:53:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

That's good, but some of my machines are not getting the updates, so I 
have to watch better for these things than I have been.  On the other 
hand, I'm probably vulnerable unless I'm running a CGI-based web server or 
I have a malicious user.  So I might have dodge this bullet.

Mike


On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Yep. FreeBSD and Ubuntu (my two systems) both had patches up within 48 hours.
>
>
>> On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, that was ages ago (in computer terms). Pretty sure all the main distros have already addressed it.
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
>>
>>> I'm surprised this didn't come up here.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)
>>>
>>> I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 01:13:27 2014
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 01:13:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020054030.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>

Laptops create another kind of problem for me.  They have up-to-date 
Ubuntu, but they mostly sit around unused until I need to take one to a 
meeting.  Then I use it at the meeting, but there's no time then to update 
the software.  Unless I remember to do it later, it doesn't get patched.


On Sun, 2 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:

> That's good, but some of my machines are not getting the updates, so I have 
> to watch better for these things than I have been.  On the other hand, I'm 
> probably vulnerable unless I'm running a CGI-based web server or I have a 
> malicious user.  So I might have dodge this bullet.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> Yep. FreeBSD and Ubuntu (my two systems) both had patches up within 48 
>> hours.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah, that was ages ago (in computer terms). Pretty sure all the main 
>>> distros have already addressed it.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm surprised this didn't come up here.
>>>> 
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)
>>>> 
>>>> I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS 
>>>> Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 07:10:45 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 07:10:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2R9EMzeAVkv4nUYTyyfe2nH05iRBvtzkDgu6BUOLf-iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Do you run IPS or IDS? I know with snort or suricata using the
Emerging Threat ruleset (free one) should detect bash exploit
attempts. Most of these snort rules also get posted on git hub as
well. An updated IDS/IPS can help minimize to some degree the risk of
an out of date machine and at minimum alert you to probing; as I say
that I realize it probably doesn't help if you don't have time to
update things. However, working in security, I've found it's better to
invest the time to be proactive then get p0wned later IMO.


--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 12:53 AM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's good, but some of my machines are not getting the updates, so I have
> to watch better for these things than I have been.  On the other hand, I'm
> probably vulnerable unless I'm running a CGI-based web server or I have a
> malicious user.  So I might have dodge this bullet.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> Yep. FreeBSD and Ubuntu (my two systems) both had patches up within 48
>> hours.
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, that was ages ago (in computer terms). Pretty sure all the main
>>> distros have already addressed it.
>>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm surprised this didn't come up here.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)
>>>>
>>>> I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS
>>>> Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Nov  2 07:47:47 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 07:47:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020054030.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020054030.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9B8eKyOdeqSNYN+6JH20LdzasYp8C8=uypWATbD2ow68A@mail.gmail.com>

>but there's no time then to update the software.  Unless I remember to do
it later, it doesn't get patched.

yup it does require some attention one way or another.  ubuntu made it easy
as possible, there's a checkbox at install to do automatic updates, and
when you shutdown it waits if automatic updates are in progress.  i'm sure
there must be a way to start that if you don't want to reinstall.  i never
use that feature tho, i always prefer to launch updates so i know when they
happen.  you could do that during the meetings.  you could even take it as
an exercise to write a script that always prompts you for approval whenever
you login, and then proceeds to do unattended updates.  perhaps someone
already has one to share..
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  2 01:47:46 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 00:47:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.
In-Reply-To: <CA+V7kPrRiNWqowouRVwxkA+ceF79MQbDPDHnteJi8=yYidyuYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY168-W165ECDD700EE4A7BB3172099910@phx.gbl>,
 <CACEdYO1vx54i0r86bDZMBpGYwD_bLVhZsMHEcWd+yq+J-urJ8g@mail.gmail.com>,
 <544D722F.1050107@e-skinner.net>,
 <CACEdYO09_gp96bNUFmYtrtXO3SYr+s4sLt=Liu8iFU4SM79TWQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <544DBB96.6030706@e-skinner.net>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1410262249490.10671@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <CA+V7kPrRiNWqowouRVwxkA+ceF79MQbDPDHnteJi8=yYidyuYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W1235A29192E21E50E2C9BDA99980@phx.gbl>

I sure wish I had an education.

Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 23:52:23 -0500
From: samael.anon at gmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.

me too
On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:49 PM,  <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
That's what I thought, too.



On Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Marc Skinner wrote:




Too funny - this is what I thought of when I heard Maya -



http://www.autodesk.com/products/maya/overview















On 10/26/2014 05:46 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:


Most of them don't crash, especially without proprietary drivers and

sticking with CLI ;-)



Maya is Mint Linux.



--

Jeremy MountainJohnson

Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com <mailto:Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com>



On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net

<mailto:marc at e-skinner.net>> wrote:



    One that doesn't crash!  :)



    What distro are you running? - that might help us guide you to a

    kernel.  Typically, you want to be running the latest kernel for the

    particular distro, as it will have the latest security, and bug

    patches already applied.







    On 10/26/2014 07:58 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:



        Depends; what are you wanting out of it? More hardware support?

        Tweaked

        for desktop?



        --

        Jeremy MountainJohnson

        Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.__com

        <mailto:Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com>

        <mailto:Jeremy.__MountainJohnson at gmail.com

        <mailto:Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com>>



        On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 10:10 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com

        <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com>

        <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com>>> wrote:



             What is the best kernel to run with Maya?



             _________________________________________________

             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

        tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>

        <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.__org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>

        http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

        <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>









        _________________________________________________

        TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

        tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>

        http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

        <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>





    _________________________________________________

    TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

    tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>

    http://mailman.mn-linux.org/__mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

    <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>









_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list






_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  2 01:51:57 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 00:51:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.
In-Reply-To: <544D800A.10207@gvtel.com>
References: <BAY168-W165ECDD700EE4A7BB3172099910@phx.gbl>,
 <CACEdYO1vx54i0r86bDZMBpGYwD_bLVhZsMHEcWd+yq+J-urJ8g@mail.gmail.com>,
 <544D722F.1050107@e-skinner.net>,
 <CACEdYO09_gp96bNUFmYtrtXO3SYr+s4sLt=Liu8iFU4SM79TWQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <544D800A.10207@gvtel.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W123F4F1C604073A9B920F3399980@phx.gbl>

I am using Linux-Mint 13 it's called Maya. My kernel is generic by default with no ppa's installed 

paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $ uname -a
Linux desk/paul-HP 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux


I wish I had a college education. 

Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:13:14 -0500
From: rsinland at gvtel.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.


  
    
  
  
    On 10/26/2014 05:46 PM, Jeremy
      MountainJohnson wrote:

    
    
      
        Most of them don't crash, especially without proprietary
          drivers and sticking with CLI ;-)

          

          Maya is Mint Linux. 

        
      
      
        --

          Jeremy MountainJohnson

          Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
        

        On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Marc
          Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net>
          wrote:

          One that
            doesn't crash!  :)

            

          
        
      
    
    If you are having crashes with linux in general it might be a good
    idea to assume its a buggy driver or faulty hardware.

    My last comp started locking up whenever I pushed the cpu at all
    which I later determined to be a thermal failure in the MB.

    I yanked the hard drive and put it in another box and after some
    driver tweaking for the graphics was running rock solid again.

    Rob

    

  


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  2 01:55:07 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 00:55:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W12521C4DB4CC7FCD658079A99980@phx.gbl>

I wish I had a college education.

> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 00:53:39 -0500
> From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
> 
> That's good, but some of my machines are not getting the updates, so I 
> have to watch better for these things than I have been.  On the other 
> hand, I'm probably vulnerable unless I'm running a CGI-based web server or 
> I have a malicious user.  So I might have dodge this bullet.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
> > Yep. FreeBSD and Ubuntu (my two systems) both had patches up within 48 hours.
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:27 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Yeah, that was ages ago (in computer terms). Pretty sure all the main distros have already addressed it.
> >>
> >> On Sat, 1 Nov 2014, Mike Miller wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm surprised this didn't come up here.
> >>>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellshock_(software_bug)
> >>>
> >>> I didn't know about it until today.  That's my fault because I get SANS Newsletter and I haven't been reading it!
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 17:32:11 2014
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 17:32:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W12521C4DB4CC7FCD658079A99980@phx.gbl>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <BAY168-W12521C4DB4CC7FCD658079A99980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5456BEFB.40708@gmail.com>

On 11/2/2014 1:55 AM, paul g wrote:
> I wish I had a college education.

Do you want to work at Starbucks, or something?


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Nov  2 17:39:52 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 17:39:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <5456BEFB.40708@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu> <,
 > <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org> <,
 > <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz> <,
 > <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <BAY168-W12521C4DB4CC7FCD658079A99980@phx.gbl> <5456BEFB.40708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D1CCCB6-11EF-46C1-B925-581BCF0B5829@cwis.biz>

No, it?s just the same shit a different month.

Paul: Stop the ?woe is me? and ?I?m an idiot? statements. This is no longer a ?please? request but a directive. They don?t make us feel like helping you learn things.
Most of us here learned by trying, doing, failing, googling. Often in that specific order.



> On Nov 2, 2014, at 5:32 PM, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 11/2/2014 1:55 AM, paul g wrote:
>> I wish I had a college education.
> 
> Do you want to work at Starbucks, or something?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From cdf123 at cdf123.net  Mon Nov  3 08:44:21 2014
From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:44:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] two gateways
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BTTP-UYurr07LVHv8jjkc4jb=kDwZZe5yh7pejfBnCUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BTTP-UYurr07LVHv8jjkc4jb=kDwZZe5yh7pejfBnCUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <545794C5.9060901@cdf123.net>

You can accomplish some of this with policy routing, and your "peon ubuntu" already has the software to do it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=linux+policy+routing

This is usually best if you know the traffic that your working with.  If the connections are different speeds you could push your services to 
one connection, and your general usage to the other.  Or similar with some traffic that's higher priority being pushed to the more stable 
connection.

If you need more than that, you'll probably need a BGP setup.

On 10/31/14 12:56, gregrwm wrote:
> when two gateways are available, i want to monitor response times and use
> whichever is responding better.  this raises several questions.  this is
> presumably the sort of thing heavyweight routers do all the time?  but my
> peon ubuntu probably needs either special software or clever
> configuration?  an established connection is confined to its established
> route, or not necessarily?  for worthwhile pointers i would be very
> grateful, tia.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Mon Nov  3 14:28:49 2014
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 14:28:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
Message-ID: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>

After doing an upgrade to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (don't do that*) I find the need for a newer 
video card than the _really_ old PCI card I have in the computer running a webserver.  
Hardly ever use it for GUI... but its unusable for GUI now.

Anything PCI Express x16 from the last decade would probably work... even PCI Express x1 
or plain old PCI, if it is newer than what I have.


* "Upgrading" to 14.04 was terrible - worst upgrade I've ever had on an Ubuntu platform.  
They broke everything.  Randomly uninstalled packages like mysql and random apache 
extensions.  And then everything else that depended on MySQL.  Broke MySql with their 
upstart mess, even after reinstalling it.  Broke Apache, by not migrating config files.  
Erased my existing config files, without asking me, when moving to their new config file 
format.

And to top it all off, the XServer now just segfaults when I try to log on, and I can't 
use any of the TTY terminals, as they are a garbled mess.  Don't care to deal with it... a 
different video card will likely sort it out.

Sigh.  "Progress".

This kind of stuff was why I stopped running redhat long ago.. because Ubuntu was so much 
better at handling things... for a while.  Who is good at it now?

Thanks,

Dan

From eminmn at sysmatrix.net  Mon Nov  3 21:14:12 2014
From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (e.c.)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:14:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
Message-ID: <CAM4eEPKniVT5RQVUoS2_5YK6j=5_sL9458UKXeZ+1WpO=8tw-Q@mail.gmail.com>

I am getting the following error (or warning) when I run virtualbox
and then when I make a new machine and reserve disk space (ver.
4.3.10-dfsg-1 with virtualbox-qt):

VirtualBox .... Gtk-critical .... assertion 'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed

Aside from this appearing in the terminal screen after every step of
the setup in the Oracle VirtualBox gui screen, the process seems to be
going normally. Can the failure of this assertion be ignored? If not,
can someone give me an apt-get recipe for installing all the packages
that VirtualBox depends on? I have gotten as far as this using
synaptic. I am trying to make a w32 win7 guest on this linux mint 17
laptop. There is no grub boot manager; it just starts in mint without
any scrolling by of the startup process, vmlinuz et al.
I bought the laptop (lenovo t400) without any MS OS installed.

Thanks,

Ed

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Nov  3 21:36:56 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:36:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411032133520.7626@cockerel.yaron.org>

A. First off, you shouldn't need a GUI on a webserver anyway. If you 
need any X applications, just forward X from your desktop (ssh -X 
webserver).

B. Upgrading to Ubuntu 14.04 was a pain for me, too. It went smoothly on 
exactly zero of my machines, to the point where I just reinstalled a few 
from scratch and just reinstalled everything and copied the configurations 
over. My own webserver went that way.

C. I believe most these cards are PCI-X 16: 
http://pics.freakzilla.com/videocards.jpg

If you want to comeup to Shoreview and get one, let me know.



On Mon, 3 Nov 2014, Dan Armbrust wrote:

> After doing an upgrade to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (don't do that*) I find the need 
> for a newer video card than the _really_ old PCI card I have in the computer 
> running a webserver.  Hardly ever use it for GUI... but its unusable for GUI 
> now.
>
> Anything PCI Express x16 from the last decade would probably work... even PCI 
> Express x1 or plain old PCI, if it is newer than what I have.
>
>
> * "Upgrading" to 14.04 was terrible - worst upgrade I've ever had on an 
> Ubuntu platform.  They broke everything.  Randomly uninstalled packages like 
> mysql and random apache extensions.  And then everything else that depended 
> on MySQL.  Broke MySql with their upstart mess, even after reinstalling it. 
> Broke Apache, by not migrating config files.  Erased my existing config 
> files, without asking me, when moving to their new config file format.
>
> And to top it all off, the XServer now just segfaults when I try to log on, 
> and I can't use any of the TTY terminals, as they are a garbled mess.  Don't 
> care to deal with it... a different video card will likely sort it out.
>
> Sigh.  "Progress".
>
> This kind of stuff was why I stopped running redhat long ago.. because Ubuntu 
> was so much better at handling things... for a while.  Who is good at it now?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From johntrammell at gmail.com  Sun Nov  2 16:12:42 2014
From: johntrammell at gmail.com (John Trammell)
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:12:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W12521C4DB4CC7FCD658079A99980@phx.gbl>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>
 <BAY168-W12521C4DB4CC7FCD658079A99980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAGmMemR5fQ34Tc4cSs8PCqiSF4h7sbZj8DqqjXU93PZArr5S4w@mail.gmail.com>

You can get a college education for free (just not a degree).

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm

On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 1:55 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I wish I had a college education.
>
>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  3 21:00:33 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:00:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W15BFC70B280C94B41ECA2799860@phx.gbl>

Even AGP works fine with GPU on 14.04.<-- Mint or Ubuntu.. - Pull up an  ' lspci '  in terminal. 

Usually with upgrading on an LTS now means --- nothing new is gonna happen for about 4 years.

What OS are you running with the 'support'.?

Thank you,

> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 14:28:49 -0600
> From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
> 
> After doing an upgrade to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (don't do that*) I find the need for a newer 
> video card than the _really_ old PCI card I have in the computer running a webserver.  
> Hardly ever use it for GUI... but its unusable for GUI now.
> 
> Anything PCI Express x16 from the last decade would probably work... even PCI Express x1 
> or plain old PCI, if it is newer than what I have.
> 
> 
> * "Upgrading" to 14.04 was terrible - worst upgrade I've ever had on an Ubuntu platform.  
> They broke everything.  Randomly uninstalled packages like mysql and random apache 
> extensions.  And then everything else that depended on MySQL.  Broke MySql with their 
> upstart mess, even after reinstalling it.  Broke Apache, by not migrating config files.  
> Erased my existing config files, without asking me, when moving to their new config file 
> format.
> 
> And to top it all off, the XServer now just segfaults when I try to log on, and I can't 
> use any of the TTY terminals, as they are a garbled mess.  Don't care to deal with it... a 
> different video card will likely sort it out.
> 
> Sigh.  "Progress".
> 
> This kind of stuff was why I stopped running redhat long ago.. because Ubuntu was so much 
> better at handling things... for a while.  Who is good at it now?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  3 21:16:33 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:16:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
In-Reply-To: <CAM4eEPKniVT5RQVUoS2_5YK6j=5_sL9458UKXeZ+1WpO=8tw-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4eEPKniVT5RQVUoS2_5YK6j=5_sL9458UKXeZ+1WpO=8tw-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W31884F70A1A19997C7347399860@phx.gbl>

Check your file structure. 

> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:14:12 -0600
> From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
> 
> I am getting the following error (or warning) when I run virtualbox
> and then when I make a new machine and reserve disk space (ver.
> 4.3.10-dfsg-1 with virtualbox-qt):
> 
> VirtualBox .... Gtk-critical .... assertion 'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
> 
> Aside from this appearing in the terminal screen after every step of
> the setup in the Oracle VirtualBox gui screen, the process seems to be
> going normally. Can the failure of this assertion be ignored? If not,
> can someone give me an apt-get recipe for installing all the packages
> that VirtualBox depends on? I have gotten as far as this using
> synaptic. I am trying to make a w32 win7 guest on this linux mint 17
> laptop. There is no grub boot manager; it just starts in mint without
> any scrolling by of the startup process, vmlinuz et al.
> I bought the laptop (lenovo t400) without any MS OS installed.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Tue Nov  4 01:39:19 2014
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:39:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411032133520.7626@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411032133520.7626@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <545882A7.1030209@gmail.com>

On 11/03/2014 09:36 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> A. First off, you shouldn't need a GUI on a webserver anyway. If you need any X 
> applications, just forward X from your desktop (ssh -X webserver).

Could you sound like any more of a hardcore Linux guy?  :)

The computer is in my garage.  I like the monitor to work to pull up the occasional 
service manual PDF, etc :)

It also happens to run a webserver that gets close to 0 traffic :)

>
> B. Upgrading to Ubuntu 14.04 was a pain for me, too. It went smoothly on exactly zero of 
> my machines, to the point where I just reinstalled a few from scratch and just 
> reinstalled everything and copied the configurations over. My own webserver went that way.
My main system was a bit better... but it still did a bunch of random stuff I didn't care 
for.  Seems like every distro has this curve where they set off better than the existing 
ones at the time... maintain it for a while, then just ruin it over time :(

>
> C. I believe most these cards are PCI-X 16: http://pics.freakzilla.com/videocards.jpg
>
> If you want to comeup to Shoreview and get one, let me know.
>

Thanks for the offer!  Shoreview is a bit of a haul for me - I'll see if the other is 
closer to me first.  At least 4 of them look like PCI-X to me.  The fanless one is maybe 
AGP?  They all look like overkill for my needs :)

Thanks,

Dan



From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Nov  4 01:45:05 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 01:45:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <545882A7.1030209@gmail.com>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411032133520.7626@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <545882A7.1030209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411040141300.7772@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Tue, 4 Nov 2014, Dan Armbrust wrote:

> Could you sound like any more of a hardcore Linux guy?  :)

Oh yes. I could've been condescending as hell and not given you examples, 
and said you're not allowed to put X on a webserver (;

> My main system was a bit better... but it still did a bunch of random stuff I 
> didn't care for.

My media center went the smoothest (just did that the other day) except 
NATURALLY sound stopped working, and then it was reversed, and stuff. 
Luckily I saved the alsa configs...

> Thanks for the offer!  Shoreview is a bit of a haul for me - I'll see if the 
> other is closer to me first.  At least 4 of them look like PCI-X to me.  The 
> fanless one is maybe AGP?  They all look like overkill for my needs :)

Let me know!

From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Tue Nov  4 01:47:57 2014
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:47:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W15BFC70B280C94B41ECA2799860@phx.gbl>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
 <BAY168-W15BFC70B280C94B41ECA2799860@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <545884AD.1040404@gmail.com>

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From eminmn at sysmatrix.net  Tue Nov  4 08:12:33 2014
From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (e.c.)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:12:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W31884F70A1A19997C7347399860@phx.gbl>
References: <CAM4eEPKniVT5RQVUoS2_5YK6j=5_sL9458UKXeZ+1WpO=8tw-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <BAY168-W31884F70A1A19997C7347399860@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAM4eEPJ9hKK_ZuSAgSaLXt+Xoewi5n4R8LXqtpp6wHF6xd8+gg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Check your file structure.

A wonderfully terse reply. I haven't actually tried to install
virtualbox yet, just applied the pertinent synaptic pakages. What do
you mean, fsck -v ? There is no reason to expect anything wrong that
that would find.

Ed

>
>> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:14:12 -0600
>> From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net
>> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
>>
>> I am getting the following error (or warning) when I run virtualbox
>> and then when I make a new machine and reserve disk space (ver.
>> 4.3.10-dfsg-1 with virtualbox-qt):
>>
>> VirtualBox .... Gtk-critical .... assertion 'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)'
>> failed
>>
>> Aside from this appearing in the terminal screen after every step of
>> the setup in the Oracle VirtualBox gui screen, the process seems to be
>> going normally. Can the failure of this assertion be ignored? If not,
>> can someone give me an apt-get recipe for installing all the packages
>> that VirtualBox depends on? I have gotten as far as this using
>> synaptic. I am trying to make a w32 win7 guest on this linux mint 17
>> laptop. There is no grub boot manager; it just starts in mint without
>> any scrolling by of the startup process, vmlinuz et al.
>> I bought the laptop (lenovo t400) without any MS OS installed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Nov  4 08:19:27 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 08:19:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
In-Reply-To: <CAM4eEPJ9hKK_ZuSAgSaLXt+Xoewi5n4R8LXqtpp6wHF6xd8+gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4eEPKniVT5RQVUoS2_5YK6j=5_sL9458UKXeZ+1WpO=8tw-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <BAY168-W31884F70A1A19997C7347399860@phx.gbl>
 <CAM4eEPJ9hKK_ZuSAgSaLXt+Xoewi5n4R8LXqtpp6wHF6xd8+gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5458E06F.6070303@cwis.biz>


On 11/4/2014 8:12 AM, e.c. wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Check your file structure.
> A wonderfully terse reply. I haven't actually tried to install
> virtualbox yet, just applied the pertinent synaptic pakages. What do
> you mean, fsck -v ? There is no reason to expect anything wrong that
> that would find.
>
> Ed

I kinda figured Paul's response wouldn't be really helpful.

I don't have a solution for you so I would suggest that "paul g" expand 
on his uninformative response.

--
Ryan

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Tue Nov  4 08:28:50 2014
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 08:28:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
Message-ID: <glkvgpp0eod1t6gmln1ktdh1.1415111204997@email.android.com>

I upgraded a headless server to Ubuntu 14.04 from LTS to LTS without issues at all. It's a fairly decent set of hardware (desktop hardware) 8 gigs of ram, etc.?

If you don't like having release upgrades have you considered a rolling distro like Gentoo or Arch??

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Dan Armbrust <daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com> </div><div>Date:11/04/2014  1:47 AM  (GMT-06:00) </div><div>To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org </div><div>Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet? </div><div>
</div>On 11/03/2014 09:00 PM, paul g wrote:
Even AGP works fine with GPU on 14.04.<-- Mint or Ubuntu.. - Pull up an  ' lspci '  in terminal. 

Yea - what I have in there now isn't even that new.  Its pure PCI - close to 20 years old or more.  It was the only thing I had after I swapped hardware around that would work... my "better" retired video cards were AGP... but this MB doesn't have an AGP slot.  Think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Trio

Before the upgrade, it worked, and managed a laughable 640x480.  After the upgrade, the TTYs are all garbled (probably wrong timing) and while the logon screen works - so X sometimes works - on logon, it immediately segfaults.

I'm sure I could fix it... but I just don't care to :)



Usually with upgrading on an LTS now means --- nothing new is gonna happen for about 4 years.

Which is just what I want on this computer.  Every time I upgrade it, I waste a day fixing what they broke :(

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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  4 01:22:12 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 01:22:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability
In-Reply-To: <CAGmMemR5fQ34Tc4cSs8PCqiSF4h7sbZj8DqqjXU93PZArr5S4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411011710160.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411011726430.2655@cockerel.yaron.org>,
 <23DDB304-9909-4F7F-977C-5DD206AD4436@cwis.biz>,
 <alpine.DEB.2.00.1411020037440.4501@taxa.psych.umn.edu>,
 <BAY168-W12521C4DB4CC7FCD658079A99980@phx.gbl>,
 <CAGmMemR5fQ34Tc4cSs8PCqiSF4h7sbZj8DqqjXU93PZArr5S4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W798786D97CAF21E96AE20B99860@phx.gbl>

I can now learn how to operate a computer. 

thank you, 
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:12:42 -0600
From: johntrammell at gmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] shellshock Bash vulnerability

You can get a college education for free (just not a degree).

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm

On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 1:55 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:



I wish I had a college education.



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From greg at whitleymott.net  Tue Nov  4 08:48:05 2014
From: greg at whitleymott.net (gregory mott)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:48:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <545882A7.1030209@gmail.com>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411032133520.7626@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <545882A7.1030209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CVYhkYX4WBb3x_fCwGk8qmM8j8gDctZ2eAOSVRWSQnWw@mail.gmail.com>

>I'll see if the other is closer to me

you're welcome to crack open several old hulks here and have a look..
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From eminmn at sysmatrix.net  Tue Nov  4 12:00:07 2014
From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (e.c.)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 12:00:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
In-Reply-To: <5458E06F.6070303@cwis.biz>
References: <CAM4eEPKniVT5RQVUoS2_5YK6j=5_sL9458UKXeZ+1WpO=8tw-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <BAY168-W31884F70A1A19997C7347399860@phx.gbl>
 <CAM4eEPJ9hKK_ZuSAgSaLXt+Xoewi5n4R8LXqtpp6wHF6xd8+gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5458E06F.6070303@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CAM4eEP+a74+F+E33T2o2k5_DYB0O3m87pnzsjHR5KVYYM5tL4A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Ryan.  Although I'm a tyro at this, I wasn't expecting a fix,
just an explanation of what the error meant. I tried the virtualbox
non-free but it threw the same error. Adding virtualbox-dbg didn't
produce any more or different information.

Ed



On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
>
> On 11/4/2014 8:12 AM, e.c. wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Check your file structure.
>>
>> A wonderfully terse reply. I haven't actually tried to install
>> virtualbox yet, just applied the pertinent synaptic pakages. What do
>> you mean, fsck -v ? There is no reason to expect anything wrong that
>> that would find.
>>
>> Ed
>
>
> I kinda figured Paul's response wouldn't be really helpful.
>
> I don't have a solution for you so I would suggest that "paul g" expand on
> his uninformative response.
>
> --
> Ryan
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From mat at mthx.org  Tue Nov  4 13:26:52 2014
From: mat at mthx.org (Marc Thomas)
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 13:26:52 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
In-Reply-To: <CAM4eEP+a74+F+E33T2o2k5_DYB0O3m87pnzsjHR5KVYYM5tL4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4eEP+a74+F+E33T2o2k5_DYB0O3m87pnzsjHR5KVYYM5tL4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1415129212.4032.1@smtp.gmail.com>

Did some quick googling and it looks like it's actually an issue with 
QT/GTK compatability. Try installing `apt-get install qtconfig-qt4` and 
changing your rendering engine from "QGtkStyle" to something else.

--
Marc Thomas
mthx.org | Github: mthxx | @mthx_

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 12:00 PM, e.c. <eminmn at sysmatrix.net> wrote:
> Thanks, Ryan.  Although I'm a tyro at this, I wasn't expecting a fix,
> just an explanation of what the error meant. I tried the virtualbox
> non-free but it threw the same error. Adding virtualbox-dbg didn't
> produce any more or different information.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> 
> wrote:
>> 
>>  On 11/4/2014 8:12 AM, e.c. wrote:
>>> 
>>>  On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  Check your file structure.
>>> 
>>>  A wonderfully terse reply. I haven't actually tried to install
>>>  virtualbox yet, just applied the pertinent synaptic pakages. What 
>>> do
>>>  you mean, fsck -v ? There is no reason to expect anything wrong 
>>> that
>>>  that would find.
>>> 
>>>  Ed
>> 
>> 
>>  I kinda figured Paul's response wouldn't be really helpful.
>> 
>>  I don't have a solution for you so I would suggest that "paul g" 
>> expand on
>>  his uninformative response.
>> 
>>  --
>>  Ryan
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>  tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>  http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From eminmn at sysmatrix.net  Tue Nov  4 14:38:49 2014
From: eminmn at sysmatrix.net (e.c.)
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:38:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] virtualbox on mint 17 (64bit) with cinnamon
In-Reply-To: <1415129212.4032.1@smtp.gmail.com>
References: <CAM4eEP+a74+F+E33T2o2k5_DYB0O3m87pnzsjHR5KVYYM5tL4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1415129212.4032.1@smtp.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM4eEPJzaVp8o_9rgJftpzXRupmCYnotoNMH-d=m0HXCa+gMGw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Marc; I had already tried that with no luck. Finally someone
on #vbox at freenode helped me install 4.3.18.9... from oracle and now
there is no assertion failure. I'll keep the relevant url's and
install procedure if any one else needs them

Ed

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Marc Thomas <mat at mthx.org> wrote:
> Did some quick googling and it looks like it's actually an issue with QT/GTK
> compatability. Try installing `apt-get install qtconfig-qt4` and changing
> your rendering engine from "QGtkStyle" to something else.
>
> --
> Marc Thomas
> mthx.org | Github: mthxx | @mthx_
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 12:00 PM, e.c. <eminmn at sysmatrix.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Ryan. Although I'm a tyro at this, I wasn't expecting a fix, just an
> explanation of what the error meant. I tried the virtualbox non-free but it
> threw the same error. Adding virtualbox-dbg didn't produce any more or
> different information. Ed On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Ryan Coleman
> <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
>
> On 11/4/2014 8:12 AM, e.c. wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Check your file structure.
>
> A wonderfully terse reply. I haven't actually tried to install virtualbox
> yet, just applied the pertinent synaptic pakages. What do you mean, fsck -v
> ? There is no reason to expect anything wrong that that would find. Ed
>
> I kinda figured Paul's response wouldn't be really helpful. I don't have a
> solution for you so I would suggest that "paul g" expand on his
> uninformative response. -- Ryan
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  5 00:27:01 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:27:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] lpr: The printer or class does not exist.
Message-ID: <BAY168-W120CF01232714EFDED3FCA199870@phx.gbl>

I made a purchase on a brother MFC-J475DW printer.

I connected it to use wirelessly on my home network. The printer scanning and printing very very very well. 

I have 2 computers with the exact same brother drivers installed. <---- Ubuntu 10.04 & Linux Mint 13

paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $ brpcfax -o fax-number=6127014 /home/paul/Desktop/output.ps
lpr: The printer or class does not exist. <----on the Linux Mint 13 machine.

On the 10.04 machine it dials up right on the printer within 3 seconds. What gives could this be a kernel issue? The permissions for brfaxfilter are set exactly the same on both the computers.

Please give me some suggestions my mind is confused.

Thank you,
 		 	   		  
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From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Wed Nov  5 19:28:15 2014
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:28:15 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411032133520.7626@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411032133520.7626@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <545ACEAF.4080608@gmail.com>

On 11/03/2014 09:36 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
>
> If you want to comeup to Shoreview and get one, let me know.
>

Justin got me set up with a card that worked perfectly for my needs.

Thanks Justin!

Dan

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 02:22:47 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:22:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <545884AD.1040404@gmail.com>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>,
 <BAY168-W15BFC70B280C94B41ECA2799860@phx.gbl>, <545884AD.1040404@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W136E1E0BEC9D58AC244BA4099840@phx.gbl>

Dan, I live in the Southwest Metro are you still parting with those old video cards?

Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 01:47:57 -0600
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?


  
    
  
  
    On 11/03/2014 09:00 PM, paul g wrote:

    
    
      
      Even AGP works fine with GPU on 14.04.<-- Mint
        or Ubuntu.. - Pull up an  ' lspci '  in terminal. 

      
    
    

    Yea - what I have in there now isn't even that new.  Its pure PCI -
    close to 20 years old or more.  It was the only thing I had after I
    swapped hardware around that would work... my "better" retired video
    cards were AGP... but this MB doesn't have an AGP slot.  Think
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Trio

    

    Before the upgrade, it worked, and managed a laughable 640x480. 
    After the upgrade, the TTYs are all garbled (probably wrong timing)
    and while the logon screen works - so X sometimes works - on logon,
    it immediately segfaults.

    

    I'm sure I could fix it... but I just don't care to :)

    

    

    
      

        Usually with upgrading on an LTS now means --- nothing new is
        gonna happen for about 4 years.

      
    
    

    Which is just what I want on this computer.  Every time I upgrade
    it, I waste a day fixing what they broke :(

    

  


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 02:26:54 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:26:54 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <glkvgpp0eod1t6gmln1ktdh1.1415111204997@email.android.com>
References: <glkvgpp0eod1t6gmln1ktdh1.1415111204997@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W13686F4BE147D911C1AE16E99840@phx.gbl>

I would love to learn more about Arch or Gentoo, I do read quite alot but just have to learn most everything about these operating systems the hard way. I may be a bit slow I wish there was a few people in my area that I could learn more from. I started reading some about Gentoo late last winter early spring this past year. I do have interest, it all takes time.

Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:28:50 -0600
From: jus at krytosvirus.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?

I upgraded a headless server to Ubuntu 14.04 from LTS to LTS without issues at all. It's a fairly decent set of hardware (desktop hardware) 8 gigs of ram, etc. 
If you don't like having release upgrades have you considered a rolling distro like Gentoo or Arch? 

-------- Original message --------From: Dan Armbrust  Date:11/04/2014  1:47 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet? 

    On 11/03/2014 09:00 PM, paul g wrote:

    
    
      
      Even AGP works fine with GPU on 14.04.<-- Mint
        or Ubuntu.. - Pull up an  ' lspci '  in terminal. 

      
    
    

    Yea - what I have in there now isn't even that new.  Its pure PCI -
    close to 20 years old or more.  It was the only thing I had after I
    swapped hardware around that would work... my "better" retired video
    cards were AGP... but this MB doesn't have an AGP slot.  Think
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Trio

    

    Before the upgrade, it worked, and managed a laughable 640x480. 
    After the upgrade, the TTYs are all garbled (probably wrong timing)
    and while the logon screen works - so X sometimes works - on logon,
    it immediately segfaults.

    

    I'm sure I could fix it... but I just don't care to :)

    

    

    
      

        Usually with upgrading on an LTS now means --- nothing new is
        gonna happen for about 4 years.

      
    
    

    Which is just what I want on this computer.  Every time I upgrade
    it, I waste a day fixing what they broke :(

    

  


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  6 02:36:16 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:36:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] lpr: The printer or class does not exist.
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W120CF01232714EFDED3FCA199870@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY168-W120CF01232714EFDED3FCA199870@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W46BBD1B6704076C8BAC5E099840@phx.gbl>

I guess the issue I was having with BRPCFAX was by -renaming- the BRFAX in cups -GUI- to something like Brother-MFC-J475DW/BRFAX then the BRPCFAX application will not send a .ps file to the fax/machine and lpr output complains. So I guess one has to leave the BRFAX labeled as it. That's what the difference was on the old 10.04 machine was I just didn't notice the BRFAX label was the culprit.

Thank you,

From: pj.world at hotmail.com
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:27:01 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] lpr: The printer or class does not exist.




I made a purchase on a brother MFC-J475DW printer.

I connected it to use wirelessly on my home network. The printer scanning and printing very very very well. 

I have 2 computers with the exact same brother drivers installed. <---- Ubuntu 10.04 & Linux Mint 13

paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $ brpcfax -o fax-number=6127014 /home/paul/Desktop/output.ps
lpr: The printer or class does not exist. <----on the Linux Mint 13 machine.

On the 10.04 machine it dials up right on the printer within 3 seconds. What gives could this be a kernel issue? The permissions for brfaxfilter are set exactly the same on both the computers.

Please give me some suggestions my mind is confused.

Thank you,
 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  7 00:19:39 2014
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 00:19:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Streams in the desert
Message-ID: <CABWFOjv4F3jihOCkScLhh-F0uhGZkRYrZ61eQz0S3LSR49jPGw@mail.gmail.com>

Last June I wrote;
>
> I guess the Twin Cities could be described as a C++ desert.

There are more C++ meetings starting around the country:

https://isocpp.org/blog/2014/11/28-c-user-group-meetings-in-november

There's a new one in Saint Louis and it looks like there are two
meetings this month in Austin, Texas.

I'm willing to host a meeting in the Saint Paul area, but would like
to find someone else interested in giving a talk at the first meeting.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - America needs a doctor, STAT.
Ben Carson for President

http://webEbenezer.net
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Nov  9 08:57:06 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 08:57:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Bc_QDnW8zPh_U26pFphWnhQRjG5ezZo_NdA-WoUQ7+Qw@mail.gmail.com>

i would like to download
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/14.04/release/lubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-powerpc.iso
onto a PowerBook G4, set it to be booted from disc by default, leave the
MacOS otherwise intact, and be able to boot the MacOS with a simple
boottime interaction.  how might i do this?  i know grub2 can boot a
non-powerpc iso from a non-hfs disc...
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Nov  9 11:45:30 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:45:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9Bc_QDnW8zPh_U26pFphWnhQRjG5ezZo_NdA-WoUQ7+Qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9Bc_QDnW8zPh_U26pFphWnhQRjG5ezZo_NdA-WoUQ7+Qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EC17208D-C0C9-4090-B1E5-85F90934B5E0@cwis.biz>

WOuldn?t it be like booting from any other CD or DVD?

1) Burn the ISO to the disc
2) Go to System Preferences and choose Startup Disc
3) Select the CD you see (or deselect the MacHD) 
4) Close window
5) Reboot


If that fails press and hold C to boot from the CD, that will CYA if you can?t set the optical media (or Option if the EFI is more modern than I remember)

The easiest way to boot will always be the EFI manager from Apple. :-\

> On Nov 9, 2014, at 8:57 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> 
> i would like to download
> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/14.04/release/lubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-powerpc.iso <http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/14.04/release/lubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-powerpc.iso>
> onto a PowerBook G4, set it to be booted from disc by default, leave the MacOS otherwise intact, and be able to boot the MacOS with a simple boottime interaction.  how might i do this?  i know grub2 can boot a non-powerpc iso from a non-hfs disc...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Nov  9 15:28:05 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:28:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CLfdFqiAQmnKyuUe0Fy6gu-ANW7BbvaiWLyw2eB4GLFQ@mail.gmail.com>

> WOuldn?t it be like booting from any other CD or DVD?

actually i'm looking to boot the lubuntu powerpc desktop iso from the mac
(hfs?) hard disc
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Nov  9 16:28:21 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 16:28:21 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CLfdFqiAQmnKyuUe0Fy6gu-ANW7BbvaiWLyw2eB4GLFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CLfdFqiAQmnKyuUe0Fy6gu-ANW7BbvaiWLyw2eB4GLFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29BA30CD-AF14-4C36-95D6-02A42FA4D928@cwis.biz>

Yeah, you need to use Apple?s EFI for that I think and since it?s not an Intel CPU Boot Camp is not an option.


> On Nov 9, 2014, at 3:28 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> 
> > WOuldn?t it be like booting from any other CD or DVD?
> actually i'm looking to boot the lubuntu powerpc desktop iso from the mac (hfs?) hard disc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From kris.browne at gmail.com  Sun Nov  9 20:54:08 2014
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 20:54:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
In-Reply-To: <29BA30CD-AF14-4C36-95D6-02A42FA4D928@cwis.biz>
References: <CAD+dB9CLfdFqiAQmnKyuUe0Fy6gu-ANW7BbvaiWLyw2eB4GLFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <29BA30CD-AF14-4C36-95D6-02A42FA4D928@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <842762D3-C56E-419E-8DAC-DF7255BD0D20@gmail.com>

You mean Open Firmware, since we're talking about PowerPC not Intel. 

Depending on the version of OSX on there, Disk Utility should be able to do a non-destructive resize of the partition even while you're booted on it.

If you find the right instructions for setting up the boot, you should be able to use the standard "hold-option" boot selector on any restart or the boot selector in system prefs. I have only done the process with the BSD family in PPC before so I'm not sure how much it will vary with Linux. 

(\(\
( -.-)      Kris Browne
o_(")(")  kris.browne at mac.com

> On Nov 9, 2014, at 16:28, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, you need to use Apple?s EFI for that I think and since it?s not an Intel CPU Boot Camp is not an option.
> 
> 
>> On Nov 9, 2014, at 3:28 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
>> 
>> > WOuldn?t it be like booting from any other CD or DVD?
>> actually i'm looking to boot the lubuntu powerpc desktop iso from the mac (hfs?) hard disc
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Nov  9 21:35:35 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 21:35:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
In-Reply-To: <842762D3-C56E-419E-8DAC-DF7255BD0D20@gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CLfdFqiAQmnKyuUe0Fy6gu-ANW7BbvaiWLyw2eB4GLFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <29BA30CD-AF14-4C36-95D6-02A42FA4D928@cwis.biz>
 <842762D3-C56E-419E-8DAC-DF7255BD0D20@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <566B3188-CAD0-4AC8-9DEB-74520AB54808@cwis.biz>


> On Nov 9, 2014, at 8:54 PM, Kristopher Browne <kris.browne at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> You mean Open Firmware, since we're talking about PowerPC not Intel. 
> 
Yes, thank you. I last used a PPC Mac in 2003 with a G4 Titanium :)
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Nov  9 21:41:47 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 21:41:47 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BDJMFOrd022S1czKyda3PrV1rz9Fi5wGjfK-GrfqnGUA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Disk Utility should be able to do a non-destructive resize of the
> partition even while you're booted on it.
>

on a non-mac disc with grub already installed (if grub isn't already
installed just use grub-install), it's easy to add (many) menuentries to
boot (a collection of) ISOs.  the ISOs can just be downloaded into whatever
partition/filesystem already exists.  no repartitioning, reformatting, nor
mkfs necessary.  this works nicely on a hard disc or thumb drive.

i'm hoping it's (nearly) as easy on a mac, but, is it?
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From kris.browne at gmail.com  Mon Nov 10 08:04:24 2014
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 08:04:24 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BDJMFOrd022S1czKyda3PrV1rz9Fi5wGjfK-GrfqnGUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BDJMFOrd022S1czKyda3PrV1rz9Fi5wGjfK-GrfqnGUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.5460c5e9.507ed7ab.9305@Kristophers-iMac.local>

I don?t think grub can do HFS+ filesystems, so you?d need to put any ISO images on a different filesystem.?

--?
Kristopher Browne


From:?gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net>
Reply:?TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
Date:?November 9, 2014 at 21:42:49
To:?tclug-list at mn-linux.org <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
Subject:? Re: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc  

Disk Utility should be able to do a non-destructive resize of the partition even while you're booted on it.

on a non-mac disc with grub already installed (if grub isn't already installed just use grub-install), it's easy to add (many) menuentries to boot (a collection of) ISOs.? the ISOs can just be downloaded into whatever partition/filesystem already exists.? no repartitioning, reformatting, nor mkfs necessary.? this works nicely on a hard disc or thumb drive.

i'm hoping it's (nearly) as easy on a mac, but, is it?
_______________________________________________  
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota  
tclug-list at mn-linux.org  
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list  
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Mon Nov 10 09:47:31 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 09:47:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Bah=XXKojvgQgcMYA5hAfychBT+U+fE973wpaV1eKd0A@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I don?t think grub can do HFS+ filesystems, so you?d need to put any ISO
> images on a different filesystem.
>

i've certainly seen that advice before, however i think it's dated, grub2
claims to support hfs+
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Nov 10 22:46:36 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:46:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] boot powerpc iso from disc
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9Bah=XXKojvgQgcMYA5hAfychBT+U+fE973wpaV1eKd0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9Bah=XXKojvgQgcMYA5hAfychBT+U+fE973wpaV1eKd0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D921E47-2CE3-4C5B-A1AA-7742937B0A5E@cwis.biz>

But as Intel only or also PPC? That?s the biggest obstacle right now.


> On Nov 10, 2014, at 9:47 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> 
> I don?t think grub can do HFS+ filesystems, so you?d need to put any ISO images on a different filesystem. 
> 
> i've certainly seen that advice before, however i think it's dated, grub2 claims to support hfs+
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Mon Nov 10 23:10:53 2014
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:10:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Want an old video card out of your closet?
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W136E1E0BEC9D58AC244BA4099840@phx.gbl>
References: <5457E581.8020103@gmail.com>,
 <BAY168-W15BFC70B280C94B41ECA2799860@phx.gbl>,
 <545884AD.1040404@gmail.com> <BAY168-W136E1E0BEC9D58AC244BA4099840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <54619A5D.3000104@gmail.com>

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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 12 04:04:19 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 04:04:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Bill Joy?
Message-ID: <BAY168-W4839BDF8440682DE8E74A0998E0@phx.gbl>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZEmpOwPkg

thank you,
 		 	   		  
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 12 04:28:36 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 04:28:36 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
Message-ID: <BAY168-W92268531EB65A0F28C9D6B998E0@phx.gbl>

http://www.amazon.com/Testing-Web-Security-Assessing-Applications/dp/0471232815/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415787915&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=teswting+web+security


Read this first, 

Thank you,
 		 	   		  
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From chapinjeff at gmail.com  Wed Nov 12 09:31:11 2014
From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin)
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:31:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W92268531EB65A0F28C9D6B998E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY168-W92268531EB65A0F28C9D6B998E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAJt84+Oq3Wv2_DyYxibp-9U+MCCXQCanpnN3X+NnHGGMM8o-6g@mail.gmail.com>

What's with the spam?

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:28 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.amazon.com/Testing-Web-Security-Assessing-Applications/dp/0471232815/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415787915&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=teswting+web+security
>
>
> Read this first,
>
> Thank you,
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Jeff Chapin
President, CedarLug, retired
President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
President, UNI Scuba Club
Senator, NISG, retired

From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 13 03:57:08 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:57:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
In-Reply-To: <CAJt84+Oq3Wv2_DyYxibp-9U+MCCXQCanpnN3X+NnHGGMM8o-6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY168-W92268531EB65A0F28C9D6B998E0@phx.gbl>,
 <CAJt84+Oq3Wv2_DyYxibp-9U+MCCXQCanpnN3X+NnHGGMM8o-6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W679E293FF593C4FF40A041998F0@phx.gbl>

I am sorry I felt let pretending to become a PHP developer in the matter of 1 hour. Gosh I sure wish that MSURE thing worked right.


Thank you government employees.

For not doing your job's n taxing people who do.

Now it works. No spam at all. See, all cleared up so simple n easy. 



> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:31:11 -0600
> From: chapinjeff at gmail.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
> 
> What's with the spam?
> 
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:28 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > http://www.amazon.com/Testing-Web-Security-Assessing-Applications/dp/0471232815/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415787915&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=teswting+web+security
> >
> >
> > Read this first,
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Chapin
> President, CedarLug, retired
> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
> President, UNI Scuba Club
> Senator, NISG, retired
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Nov 13 15:18:41 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:18:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W679E293FF593C4FF40A041998F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY168-W92268531EB65A0F28C9D6B998E0@phx.gbl>,
 <CAJt84+Oq3Wv2_DyYxibp-9U+MCCXQCanpnN3X+NnHGGMM8o-6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <BAY168-W679E293FF593C4FF40A041998F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411131517530.18935@cockerel.yaron.org>

What is wrong with you?

Seriously, I'm curious if there's an official diagnosis.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, paul g wrote:

> I am sorry I felt let pretending to become a PHP developer in the matter of
> 1 hour. Gosh I sure wish that MSURE thing worked right.
> 
> 
> Thank you government employees.
> 
> For not doing your job's n taxing people who do.
> 
> Now it works. No spam at all. See, all cleared up so simple n easy.
> 
> 
> 
> > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:31:11 -0600
> > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com
> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
> >
> > What's with the spam?
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:28 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.amazon.com/Testing-Web-Security-Assessing-Applications/dp/047123
> 2815/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415787915&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=teswting+we
> b+security
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this first,
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Chapin
> > President, CedarLug, retired
> > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
> > President, UNI Scuba Club
> > Senator, NISG, retired
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
>

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Nov 13 19:19:29 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:19:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Bill Joy?
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W4839BDF8440682DE8E74A0998E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY168-W4839BDF8440682DE8E74A0998E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DC693B7D-CAC5-411D-B4C3-B4933586EB92@cwis.biz>

Who? What? Why? How?


> On Nov 12, 2014, at 4:04 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZEmpOwPkg <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZEmpOwPkg>
> 
> thank you,
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Nov 13 19:20:03 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:20:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411131517530.18935@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <BAY168-W92268531EB65A0F28C9D6B998E0@phx.gbl> <, >
 <CAJt84+Oq3Wv2_DyYxibp-9U+MCCXQCanpnN3X+NnHGGMM8o-6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <BAY168-W679E293FF593C4FF40A041998F0@phx.gbl>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411131517530.18935@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <F580B33B-6C7E-41F9-B5FD-FF5D9AEA0D79@cwis.biz>

Please don?t. I have opinions but those are from personal experience.

> On Nov 13, 2014, at 3:18 PM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> 
> What is wrong with you?
> 
> Seriously, I'm curious if there's an official diagnosis.
> 
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, paul g wrote:
> 
>> I am sorry I felt let pretending to become a PHP developer in the matter of
>> 1 hour. Gosh I sure wish that MSURE thing worked right.
>> Thank you government employees.
>> For not doing your job's n taxing people who do.
>> Now it works. No spam at all. See, all cleared up so simple n easy.
>> > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:31:11 -0600
>> > From: chapinjeff at gmail.com
>> > To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A 1 + million dollar healthcare website?
>> >
>> > What's with the spam?
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:28 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >http://www.amazon.com/Testing-Web-Security-Assessing-Applications/dp/047123
>> 2815/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415787915&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=teswting+we
>> b+security
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Read this first,
>> > >
>> > > Thank you,
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jeff Chapin
>> > President, CedarLug, retired
>> > President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
>> > President, UNI Scuba Club
>> > Senator, NISG, retired
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Nov 13 19:20:58 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:20:58 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Bill Joy?
In-Reply-To: <DC693B7D-CAC5-411D-B4C3-B4933586EB92@cwis.biz>
References: <BAY168-W4839BDF8440682DE8E74A0998E0@phx.gbl>
 <DC693B7D-CAC5-411D-B4C3-B4933586EB92@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <0F233C1B-9B1F-4657-BF0C-43AAA76A5A50@cwis.biz>

After 20 years on the internet I have learned to NOT blindly click links <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KANI2dpXLw>.
> On Nov 13, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
> 
> Who? What? Why? How?
> 
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2014, at 4:04 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com <mailto:pj.world at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZEmpOwPkg <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZEmpOwPkg>
>> 
>> thank you,
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From lkateley at kateley.com  Fri Nov 14 07:38:42 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:38:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Bill Joy?
In-Reply-To: <0F233C1B-9B1F-4657-BF0C-43AAA76A5A50@cwis.biz>
References: <BAY168-W4839BDF8440682DE8E74A0998E0@phx.gbl>
 <DC693B7D-CAC5-411D-B4C3-B4933586EB92@cwis.biz>
 <0F233C1B-9B1F-4657-BF0C-43AAA76A5A50@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <DAA9BD8B-2F01-4E98-96AF-F1E00E37773F@kateley.com>

Actually I watched the whole thing..?

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 13, 2014, at 7:20 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
> 
> After 20 years on the internet I have learned to NOT blindly click links.
>> On Nov 13, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
>> 
>> Who? What? Why? How?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 12, 2014, at 4:04 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZEmpOwPkg
>>> 
>>> thank you,
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From samael.anon at gmail.com  Fri Nov 14 16:50:23 2014
From: samael.anon at gmail.com (Samael Anon)
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 16:50:23 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W123F4F1C604073A9B920F3399980@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY168-W165ECDD700EE4A7BB3172099910@phx.gbl>
 <CACEdYO1vx54i0r86bDZMBpGYwD_bLVhZsMHEcWd+yq+J-urJ8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <544D722F.1050107@e-skinner.net>
 <CACEdYO09_gp96bNUFmYtrtXO3SYr+s4sLt=Liu8iFU4SM79TWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <544D800A.10207@gvtel.com>
 <BAY168-W123F4F1C604073A9B920F3399980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CA+V7kPru6wEapbRzUZeLA0AjEuwGEY8y98c4UFgEPbFEDEe9BA@mail.gmail.com>

MIT has free videos of the classes people pay for, computer science,
programming, etc; you may not get a piece of paper when you are done, but
you still get the education.

On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 1:51 AM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am using Linux-Mint 13 it's called Maya. My kernel is generic by default
> with no ppa's installed
>
> paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $ uname -a
> Linux desk/paul-HP 3.2.0-59-generic #90-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jan 7 22:47:22 UTC
> 2014 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
>
>
> I wish I had a college education.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2014 18:13:14 -0500
> From: rsinland at gvtel.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] A question about kernels.
>
> On 10/26/2014 05:46 PM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>
>  Most of them don't crash, especially without proprietary drivers and
> sticking with CLI ;-)
>
> Maya is Mint Linux.
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>
> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Marc Skinner <marc at e-skinner.net> wrote:
>
> One that doesn't crash!  :)
>
>   If you are having crashes with linux in general it might be a good idea
> to assume its a buggy driver or faulty hardware.
> My last comp started locking up whenever I pushed the cpu at all which I
> later determined to be a thermal failure in the MB.
> I yanked the hard drive and put it in another box and after some driver
> tweaking for the graphics was running rock solid again.
> Rob
>
>
> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From galanolwe at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 18 14:57:01 2014
From: galanolwe at yahoo.com (Olwe Bottorff)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:57:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] Non-proprietary Linux?
Message-ID: <771558514.2224283.1416344221964.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10628.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I've heard of Linux-Libre. It's supposedly clean to the point of R.E. Stallman approves of it. Then there's Parabola, but when I go to their website (parabola.nu) I get a warning: unsafe. What's up with that? In general, what's a good, clean polit-correct Linux distribution with R.E.S. stamp of approval?
OlweLutsen, North Shore
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From kurtis at riseup.net  Tue Nov 18 18:38:35 2014
From: kurtis at riseup.net (Kurtis Hanna)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:38:35 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Non-proprietary Linux?
In-Reply-To: <771558514.2224283.1416344221964.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10628.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <771558514.2224283.1416344221964.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10628.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20141119003835.1480ae1e@riseup.net>

Olwe Bottorff,

Here's the list you're looking for:
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

From this list, I think that Trisquel & gNewSense are used the most,
but I could be wrong.

Small point: Stallman's middle name is Matthew. He sometimes goes by
RMS, but not R.E.S.

Also, you called it Linux. If you're seeking RMS' approval, you ought
to call it GNU/Linux and never shorten it to just "Linux". Here's why:
https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html I realize that this might be
difficult to pick up on because many people don't listen to Stallman.
For instance, this very listserv we are currently using doesn't call
itself tcglug, but instead calls itself tclug. This is too bad.

Lastly, https://www.parabola.nu/ is not unsafe. As
http://www.parabola.nu/https/ points out, you can, "just click
"Ignore", or "Add Exception", or however your browser words it" to get
past the SSL certificate stuff. You might also have to click "I
Understand the Risks". Once you do that, you can download the OS here:
https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola

Let us know if you have any more questions. I'm happy to help people
that are pursuing freedom.

Cordially,
Kurtis

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:57:01 +0000 (UTC)
Olwe Bottorff <galanolwe at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've heard of Linux-Libre. It's supposedly clean to the point of R.E.
> Stallman approves of it. Then there's Parabola, but when I go to
> their website (parabola.nu) I get a warning: unsafe. What's up with
> that? In general, what's a good, clean polit-correct Linux
> distribution with R.E.S. stamp of approval? OlweLutsen, North Shore

From kurtis at riseup.net  Tue Nov 18 19:29:59 2014
From: kurtis at riseup.net (Kurtis Hanna)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:29:59 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Non-proprietary Linux?
In-Reply-To: <20141119003835.1480ae1e@riseup.net>
References: <771558514.2224283.1416344221964.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10628.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <20141119003835.1480ae1e@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20141119012959.191d23ec@riseup.net>

I should also mention that https://www.debian.org/ is also an FOSS
option, as long as you don't install any additional package
repositories. 

"Unlike other common GNU/Linux distributions, installing official Debian
by default means installing only free software. As long as Debian users
do not add additional package repositories, their systems are a
reliable source of fully free compatibility information."
Quote from FSF.org's executive director John Sullivan
https://www.debian.org/News/2014/20140908

Here's some more info: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html

In short: Debian isn't listed in the "free distros" because it provides
a repository of nonfree software, and the Debian installer in some cases
recommends some nonfree firmware files for peripherals. If you don't
download them, even if the installer suggests that you should, then you
are good to go.

If I'm not mistaken, you should be able to see if your hardware will
work using nonfree firmware using this site:
https://h-node.org/home/index/en

If it says your hardware won't work with nonfree software, you might
need to get some new hardware in order to get your nonfree OS to work.
Here's the "Respects Your Freedom" hardware page at FSF:
https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom

I personally use https://tails.boum.org/ most of the time.

Cordially,
Kurtis

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:38:35 +0000
Kurtis Hanna <kurtis at riseup.net> wrote:

> Olwe Bottorff,
> 
> Here's the list you're looking for:
> https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
> 
> From this list, I think that Trisquel & gNewSense are used the most,
> but I could be wrong.
> 
> Small point: Stallman's middle name is Matthew. He sometimes goes by
> RMS, but not R.E.S.
> 
> Also, you called it Linux. If you're seeking RMS' approval, you ought
> to call it GNU/Linux and never shorten it to just "Linux". Here's why:
> https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html I realize that this might
> be difficult to pick up on because many people don't listen to
> Stallman. For instance, this very listserv we are currently using
> doesn't call itself tcglug, but instead calls itself tclug. This is
> too bad.
> 
> Lastly, https://www.parabola.nu/ is not unsafe. As
> http://www.parabola.nu/https/ points out, you can, "just click
> "Ignore", or "Add Exception", or however your browser words it" to get
> past the SSL certificate stuff. You might also have to click "I
> Understand the Risks". Once you do that, you can download the OS here:
> https://wiki.parabola.nu/Get_Parabola
> 
> Let us know if you have any more questions. I'm happy to help people
> that are pursuing freedom.
> 
> Cordially,
> Kurtis
> 
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:57:01 +0000 (UTC)
> Olwe Bottorff <galanolwe at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > I've heard of Linux-Libre. It's supposedly clean to the point of
> > R.E. Stallman approves of it. Then there's Parabola, but when I go
> > to their website (parabola.nu) I get a warning: unsafe. What's up
> > with that? In general, what's a good, clean polit-correct Linux
> > distribution with R.E.S. stamp of approval? OlweLutsen, North Shore
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From john.a.frisk at gmail.com  Tue Nov 18 20:31:12 2014
From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:31:12 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
Message-ID: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>

Please join us for the final formal 2014 meeting at TIES Snelling room
@10AM Central Saturday November 22rd.  Andrew Berg will be showing us
FreeBSD and compare/contrast some of the capabilities of it with Linux
systems.  It will be a good discussion as earlier in the year when we had
the ZFS discussion several comparisons were made such as FreeNAS, etc.

http://www.penguinsunbound.com/
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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Nov 18 20:58:20 2014
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:58:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Non-proprietary Linux?
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DAaGngUEwgWxyP1he8Dkq3BZU1MMevywm8_-ieF5=xWw@mail.gmail.com>

Explaining Why We Don't Endorse Other Systems
<http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html> is good for getting clear
why RMS doesn't support nearly any distro.  i agree ubuntu has gone wacko
invasive, but so far feel ok using lubuntu or ubuntustudio.  like most of
linuxland, i prefer libre, but still want to see DVDs i borrow from my
public library, sites that use flash, et al, so yes, i check the "3rd
party" box, that's still better than needing a microsapple box isn't it?

I should also mention that https://www.debian.org/ is also an FOSS
> option, as long as you don't install any additional package
> repositories.
>
> > Here's the list you're looking for:
> > https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
> >
> > > I've heard of Linux-Libre...  In general, what's a good, clean
> polit-correct Linux
> > > distribution with R.E.S. stamp of approval?
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Nov 19 01:16:06 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:16:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] VDPAU/different capabilities
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411190115450.1620@cockerel.yaron.org>

Ok, this is a weird one...

Lately I've been finding some videos are not playable using mplayer on my media 
center frontend. Which is kind of, you know. It's job. These videos pretty much 
hang with the message:

    Unexpected decoder output format Planar YV12

repeated constantly.

Now the funny thing is they play just fine on another machine, with hthe same 
version of Ubuntu, same version of mplayer, same version of the nvidia binary 
driver, same vdpau, etc.

The only difference I can find is this. When I run "vdpauinfo" on the media 
center, I get (among other results) this:

   Decoder capabilities:

   name               level macbs width height
   -------------------------------------------
   MPEG1                 0  8192  2048  2048
   MPEG2_SIMPLE          3  8192  2048  2048
   MPEG2_MAIN            3  8192  2048  2048
   H264_MAIN            41  8190  2032  2048
   H264_HIGH            41  8190  2032  2048
   VC1_SIMPLE            1  8190  2048  2048
   VC1_MAIN              2  8190  2048  2048
   VC1_ADVANCED          4  8190  2048  2048


On the machine that IS capable of playing the videos, I get all those and in 
addition get these:

   MPEG4_PART2_SP        3  8192  2048  2048
   MPEG4_PART2_ASP       5  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX4_QMOBILE         0  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX4_MOBILE          0  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX4_HOME_THEATER    0  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX4_HD_1080P        0  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX5_QMOBILE         0  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX5_MOBILE          0  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX5_HOME_THEATER    0  8192  2048  2048
   DIVX5_HD_1080P        0  8192  2048  2048



This is the only difference I can find. And I have NO IDEA where it's coming 
from, or if it has anything to do with anything, or if ANY of this makes any 
kind of sense.

Anyone have any ideas?...

--



From joel.longanecker at gmail.com  Wed Nov 19 07:50:09 2014
From: joel.longanecker at gmail.com (Joel Longanecker)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:50:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] VDPAU/different capabilities
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411190115450.1620@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411190115450.1620@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAOusT-_PHCRuB1N3D3fghv3nrQzrnCHKg4soEha3RNe=OyBgaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can you play it in VLC?

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:16 AM, <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> Ok, this is a weird one...
>
> Lately I've been finding some videos are not playable using mplayer on my
> media center frontend. Which is kind of, you know. It's job. These videos
> pretty much hang with the message:
>
>    Unexpected decoder output format Planar YV12
>
> repeated constantly.
>
> Now the funny thing is they play just fine on another machine, with hthe
> same version of Ubuntu, same version of mplayer, same version of the nvidia
> binary driver, same vdpau, etc.
>
> The only difference I can find is this. When I run "vdpauinfo" on the
> media center, I get (among other results) this:
>
>   Decoder capabilities:
>
>   name               level macbs width height
>   -------------------------------------------
>   MPEG1                 0  8192  2048  2048
>   MPEG2_SIMPLE          3  8192  2048  2048
>   MPEG2_MAIN            3  8192  2048  2048
>   H264_MAIN            41  8190  2032  2048
>   H264_HIGH            41  8190  2032  2048
>   VC1_SIMPLE            1  8190  2048  2048
>   VC1_MAIN              2  8190  2048  2048
>   VC1_ADVANCED          4  8190  2048  2048
>
>
> On the machine that IS capable of playing the videos, I get all those and
> in addition get these:
>
>   MPEG4_PART2_SP        3  8192  2048  2048
>   MPEG4_PART2_ASP       5  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_QMOBILE         0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_MOBILE          0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_HOME_THEATER    0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_HD_1080P        0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_QMOBILE         0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_MOBILE          0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_HOME_THEATER    0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_HD_1080P        0  8192  2048  2048
>
>
>
> This is the only difference I can find. And I have NO IDEA where it's
> coming from, or if it has anything to do with anything, or if ANY of this
> makes any kind of sense.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?...
>
> --
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Wed Nov 19 07:07:19 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:07:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.18 20:31, John Frisk wrote:
> Please join us for the final formal 2014 meeting at TIES Snelling room @10AM
> Central Saturday November 22rd.  Andrew Berg will be showing us FreeBSD and
> compare/contrast some of the capabilities of it with Linux systems.  It will be
> a good discussion as earlier in the year when we had the ZFS discussion several
> comparisons were made such as FreeNAS, etc. 
On a side note, if anyone has any requests for demos, I'll try to fit an extra
one in. I think I asked this months ago, and didn't get too much of a response,
but now that the meeting is closer, I'm sure a few people have some ideas. The
planned demo is on managing third-party software and showing off the separation
between base and ports, but I can go through a demo for jails or ZFS or
whatever else as well if there is interest (and time). Unfortunately, I will
not be able to do a desktop demo since I have not had the time to set that up
to a point that I feel is good enough for a presentation.

Otherwise, I will see you all on Saturday!

From lkateley at kateley.com  Wed Nov 19 08:39:56 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:39:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <546CABBC.5040900@kateley.com>

On 11/19/14, 7:07 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2014.11.18 20:31, John Frisk wrote:
>> Please join us for the final formal 2014 meeting at TIES Snelling room @10AM
>> Central Saturday November 22rd.  Andrew Berg will be showing us FreeBSD and
>> compare/contrast some of the capabilities of it with Linux systems.  It will be
>> a good discussion as earlier in the year when we had the ZFS discussion several
>> comparisons were made such as FreeNAS, etc.
> On a side note, if anyone has any requests for demos, I'll try to fit an extra
> one in. I think I asked this months ago, and didn't get too much of a response,
> but now that the meeting is closer, I'm sure a few people have some ideas. The
> planned demo is on managing third-party software and showing off the separation
> between base and ports, but I can go through a demo for jails or ZFS or
> whatever else as well if there is interest (and time). Unfortunately, I will
> not be able to do a desktop demo since I have not had the time to set that up
> to a point that I feel is good enough for a presentation.
Andrew, one of the things I get hung up a little is how boot and 
services are managed.. It's a little different than linux..

Looking forward to ports and pkg though.
>
> Otherwise, I will see you all on Saturday!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Wed Nov 19 08:57:46 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:57:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546CABBC.5040900@kateley.com>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu> <546CABBC.5040900@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <546CAFEA.8020902@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.19 08:39, Linda Kateley wrote:
> Andrew, one of the things I get hung up a little is how boot and 
> services are managed.. It's a little different than linux..
Sure, I can add some detail on rc.d and such.

From goodell70 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 19 09:53:54 2014
From: goodell70 at yahoo.com (Mark Goodell)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:53:54 -0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1416412434.11495.YahooMailBasic@web160803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

John, Is there any chance of a person's trying to load BSD (preferably a "light" version) onto a laptop
at the meeting?  
Thank you (and thank you for doing all of this stuff for everyone).
Mark
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/18/14, John Frisk <john.a.frisk at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
 To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>, penguinsunbound-announce at lists.ties2.net, "Ubuntu Minnesota Local Community Team" <ubuntu-us-mn at lists.ubuntu.com>
 Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2014, 8:31 PM
 
 Please join us
 for the final formal 2014 meeting at TIES Snelling room
 @10AM Central Saturday November 22rd.? Andrew Berg will be
 showing us FreeBSD and compare/contrast some of the
 capabilities of it with Linux systems.? It will be a good
 discussion as earlier in the year when we had the ZFS
 discussion several comparisons were made such as FreeNAS,
 etc.? 
 
 http://www.penguinsunbound.com/
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
 tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Wed Nov 19 10:11:09 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:11:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <1416412434.11495.YahooMailBasic@web160803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1416412434.11495.YahooMailBasic@web160803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9F868E28-BB9E-4ECE-91FE-DCE8E302A9C2@cwis.biz>

> 
> On Nov 19, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Mark Goodell <goodell70 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> John, Is there any chance of a person's trying to load BSD (preferably a "light" version) onto a laptop
> at the meeting?  
> Thank you (and thank you for doing all of this stuff for everyone).
> Mark


What?s the intent of the BSD laptop? X in BSD is, IMO (after 10 years of use) bloated.




From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Wed Nov 19 10:19:30 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <1416412434.11495.YahooMailBasic@web160803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1416412434.11495.YahooMailBasic@web160803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <546CC312.2050901@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.19 09:53, Mark Goodell wrote:
> John, Is there any chance of a person's trying to load BSD (preferably a "light" version) onto a laptop
> at the meeting?  
> Thank you (and thank you for doing all of this stuff for everyone).
It's always a tossup with laptops, especially when it comes to support for
things like suspend and resume, but we can definitely try.

From goodell70 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 19 10:29:48 2014
From: goodell70 at yahoo.com (Mark Goodell)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:29:48 -0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <9F868E28-BB9E-4ECE-91FE-DCE8E302A9C2@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <1416414588.9257.YahooMailBasic@web160805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Thank you, Ryan.  

It's a several year old Compaq Presario M2000 (1/2 G Mem), on which I've
got Ubuntu (12.04) loaded - though I'm unable to get the WIFI working).  
Ubuntu ver. 13.04 hangs when I try to load it.  
 I'm just attracted to BSD on principle, if, of course, there's a version small enough
to work on this, and would otherwise be compatible.  (Much frustration with Ubuntu
-- largely over the WIFI -- though I give it, along with Linux Mint, 
great credit for at least loading on this.)  
Mark
 
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11/19/14, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
 To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
 Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 10:11 AM
 
 > 
 > On Nov 19, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Mark Goodell
 <goodell70 at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 > 
 > John, Is
 there any chance of a person's trying to load BSD
 (preferably a "light" version) onto a laptop
 > at the meeting?? 
 >
 Thank you (and thank you for doing all of this stuff for
 everyone).
 > Mark
 
 
 What?s the intent of the BSD
 laptop? X in BSD is, IMO (after 10 years of use)
 bloated.
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
 Minnesota
 tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From goodell70 at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 19 10:30:55 2014
From: goodell70 at yahoo.com (Mark Goodell)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:30:55 -0800
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546CC312.2050901@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <1416414655.69568.YahooMailBasic@web160801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Thank you, Andrew.
Mark G.
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11/19/14, Andrew Berg <aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
 To: "TCLUG Mailing List" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
 Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 10:19 AM
 
 On 2014.11.19 09:53, Mark
 Goodell wrote:
 > John, Is there any
 chance of a person's trying to load BSD (preferably a
 "light" version) onto a laptop
 > at the meeting?? 
 >
 Thank you (and thank you for doing all of this stuff for
 everyone).
 It's always a tossup with
 laptops, especially when it comes to support for
 things like suspend and resume, but we can
 definitely try.
 _______________________________________________
 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
 Minnesota
 tclug-list at mn-linux.org
 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 

From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Wed Nov 19 10:41:26 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:41:26 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <1416414588.9257.YahooMailBasic@web160805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1416414588.9257.YahooMailBasic@web160805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <546CC836.5010801@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.19 10:29, Mark Goodell wrote:
> Thank you, Ryan.  
> 
> It's a several year old Compaq Presario M2000 (1/2 G Mem), on which I've
> got Ubuntu (12.04) loaded - though I'm unable to get the WIFI working).  
> Ubuntu ver. 13.04 hangs when I try to load it.  
>  I'm just attracted to BSD on principle, if, of course, there's a version small enough
> to work on this, and would otherwise be compatible.  (Much frustration with Ubuntu
> -- largely over the WIFI -- though I give it, along with Linux Mint, 
> great credit for at least loading on this.)  
Most wireless card vendors are very unhelpful (they don't release much, if any,
documentation), and there are not many people working on wireless in the BSDs
in general, so unless the card is Atheros- or Realtek- based, I wouldn't be too
hopeful. Any of the BSDs will definitely run on that kind of machine, but
between the lack of documentation from vendors, the lack of volunteers working
on wireless card drivers in FreeBSD, and OpenBSD completely rejecting binary
firmware blobs, wireless card support outside of Atheros is generally not good
on *BSD, unfortunately.

From lkateley at kateley.com  Wed Nov 19 10:46:49 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:46:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546CC836.5010801@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <1416414588.9257.YahooMailBasic@web160805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <546CC836.5010801@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <546CC979.7010107@kateley.com>


On 11/19/14, 10:41 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2014.11.19 10:29, Mark Goodell wrote:
>> Thank you, Ryan.
>>
>> It's a several year old Compaq Presario M2000 (1/2 G Mem), on which I've
>> got Ubuntu (12.04) loaded - though I'm unable to get the WIFI working).
>> Ubuntu ver. 13.04 hangs when I try to load it.
>>   I'm just attracted to BSD on principle, if, of course, there's a version small enough
>> to work on this, and would otherwise be compatible.  (Much frustration with Ubuntu
>> -- largely over the WIFI -- though I give it, along with Linux Mint,
>> great credit for at least loading on this.)
> Most wireless card vendors are very unhelpful (they don't release much, if any,
> documentation), and there are not many people working on wireless in the BSDs
> in general, so unless the card is Atheros- or Realtek- based, I wouldn't be too
> hopeful. Any of the BSDs will definitely run on that kind of machine, but
> between the lack of documentation from vendors, the lack of volunteers working
> on wireless card drivers in FreeBSD, and OpenBSD completely rejecting binary
> firmware blobs, wireless card support outside of Atheros is generally not good
> on *BSD, unfortunately.
I would definately agree with this. I think that freebsd in general just 
see itself as a server os. Wireless just isn't a issue.

When you look at the big boys running though.. like netflix it's a nice 
server os.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Wed Nov 19 10:32:09 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:32:09 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <9F868E28-BB9E-4ECE-91FE-DCE8E302A9C2@cwis.biz>
References: <1416412434.11495.YahooMailBasic@web160803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <9F868E28-BB9E-4ECE-91FE-DCE8E302A9C2@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <546CC609.8030009@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.19 10:11, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> 
>> On Nov 19, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Mark Goodell <goodell70 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> John, Is there any chance of a person's trying to load BSD (preferably a "light" version) onto a laptop
>> at the meeting?  
>> Thank you (and thank you for doing all of this stuff for everyone).
>> Mark
> 
> 
> What?s the intent of the BSD laptop? X in BSD is, IMO (after 10 years of use) bloated.
I don't know what you mean by this. X is X and it's what you put on top of it
that can make it bloated. None of the (base) BSDs prefers any DE over another,
and FreeBSD in particular doesn't even ship with X. PC-BSD prefers its new,
very light, DE Lumina, but you'll find lots of support from the PC-BSD people
for a bunch of DEs and WMs.

From daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com  Wed Nov 19 10:59:16 2014
From: daniel.armbrust.list at gmail.com (Dan Armbrust)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:59:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] VDPAU/different capabilities
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411190115450.1620@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411190115450.1620@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <546CCC64.4090204@gmail.com>

It almost seems like your vdpau is not working correct / not installed correctly.  Maybe a 
package update clobbered part of it?

Or maybe the nvidia driver isn't being used at the moment?

I'd start by reinstalling both of those.

Dan

On 11/19/2014 01:16 AM, tclug at freakzilla.com wrote:
> Ok, this is a weird one...
>
> Lately I've been finding some videos are not playable using mplayer on my media center 
> frontend. Which is kind of, you know. It's job. These videos pretty much hang with the 
> message:
>
>    Unexpected decoder output format Planar YV12
>
> repeated constantly.
>
> Now the funny thing is they play just fine on another machine, with hthe same version of 
> Ubuntu, same version of mplayer, same version of the nvidia binary driver, same vdpau, etc.
>
> The only difference I can find is this. When I run "vdpauinfo" on the media center, I 
> get (among other results) this:
>
>   Decoder capabilities:
>
>   name               level macbs width height
>   -------------------------------------------
>   MPEG1                 0  8192  2048  2048
>   MPEG2_SIMPLE          3  8192  2048  2048
>   MPEG2_MAIN            3  8192  2048  2048
>   H264_MAIN            41  8190  2032  2048
>   H264_HIGH            41  8190  2032  2048
>   VC1_SIMPLE            1  8190  2048  2048
>   VC1_MAIN              2  8190  2048  2048
>   VC1_ADVANCED          4  8190  2048  2048
>
>
> On the machine that IS capable of playing the videos, I get all those and in addition 
> get these:
>
>   MPEG4_PART2_SP        3  8192  2048  2048
>   MPEG4_PART2_ASP       5  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_QMOBILE         0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_MOBILE          0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_HOME_THEATER    0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX4_HD_1080P        0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_QMOBILE         0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_MOBILE          0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_HOME_THEATER    0  8192  2048  2048
>   DIVX5_HD_1080P        0  8192  2048  2048
>
>
>
> This is the only difference I can find. And I have NO IDEA where it's coming from, or if 
> it has anything to do with anything, or if ANY of this makes any kind of sense.
>
> Anyone have any ideas?...
>
> -- 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Nov 19 11:20:21 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:20:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] VDPAU/different capabilities
In-Reply-To: <546CCC64.4090204@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411190115450.1620@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <546CCC64.4090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411191115410.2808@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014, Joel Longanecker wrote:

> Can you play it in VLC?

Yes, but that has it's own set of problems (fullscreen doesn't actually go 
fullscreen, audio downmixes to stereo, I'd have to re-setup LIRC, etc).

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014, Dan Armbrust wrote:

> It almost seems like your vdpau is not working correct / not installed 
> correctly.  Maybe a package update clobbered part of it?

VDPAU is the only way this machine can play hidef video, and it works with 
just about every other video. It's a very small number where this error 
happens, but it is 100% consistent. I can play other hidef videos encoded 
in (seemingly) the same format with no problem. I've compared the nvidia 
and vdpau packages between both machines and they are the same versions, 
too...


--

From kris.browne at gmail.com  Wed Nov 19 11:25:37 2014
From: kris.browne at gmail.com (Kristopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:25:37 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546CC979.7010107@kateley.com>
References: <1416414588.9257.YahooMailBasic@web160805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <546CC836.5010801@my.hennepintech.edu> <546CC979.7010107@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <etPan.546cd291.3d1b58ba.b8c@Kristophers-iMac.local>

I would disagree ? I think you?d find that most of the FreeBSD folks consider themselves working to build the most flexible general-purpose platform they can, so users can apply whatever use they want on top of it. I do know from what I?ve seen on their announcements and mailing lists that they try to avoid any choices that will pigeon-hole the platform to any role.

--?
Kristopher Browne


From:?Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com>
Reply:?TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
Date:?November 19, 2014 at 10:47:33
To:?tclug-list at mn-linux.org <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
Subject:? Re: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting  


On 11/19/14, 10:41 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:  
> On 2014.11.19 10:29, Mark Goodell wrote:  
>> Thank you, Ryan.  
>>  
>> It's a several year old Compaq Presario M2000 (1/2 G Mem), on which I've  
>> got Ubuntu (12.04) loaded - though I'm unable to get the WIFI working).  
>> Ubuntu ver. 13.04 hangs when I try to load it.  
>> I'm just attracted to BSD on principle, if, of course, there's a version small enough  
>> to work on this, and would otherwise be compatible. (Much frustration with Ubuntu  
>> -- largely over the WIFI -- though I give it, along with Linux Mint,  
>> great credit for at least loading on this.)  
> Most wireless card vendors are very unhelpful (they don't release much, if any,  
> documentation), and there are not many people working on wireless in the BSDs  
> in general, so unless the card is Atheros- or Realtek- based, I wouldn't be too  
> hopeful. Any of the BSDs will definitely run on that kind of machine, but  
> between the lack of documentation from vendors, the lack of volunteers working  
> on wireless card drivers in FreeBSD, and OpenBSD completely rejecting binary  
> firmware blobs, wireless card support outside of Atheros is generally not good  
> on *BSD, unfortunately.  
I would definately agree with this. I think that freebsd in general just  
see itself as a server os. Wireless just isn't a issue.  

When you look at the big boys running though.. like netflix it's a nice  
server os.  
> _______________________________________________  
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota  
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org  
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list  

_______________________________________________  
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota  
tclug-list at mn-linux.org  
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list  
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From tlunde at gmail.com  Wed Nov 19 18:22:20 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:22:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>

I'm very interested in bhyve. Pleas add it to the list.

I use FreeNAS and am looking forward to an alternative to VirtualBox ('tho
happy it is available as an easy plugin now).

Thanks
Thomas
On Nov 19, 2014 8:37 AM, "Andrew Berg" <aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu> wrote:

> On 2014.11.18 20:31, John Frisk wrote:
> > Please join us for the final formal 2014 meeting at TIES Snelling room
> @10AM
> > Central Saturday November 22rd.  Andrew Berg will be showing us FreeBSD
> and
> > compare/contrast some of the capabilities of it with Linux systems.  It
> will be
> > a good discussion as earlier in the year when we had the ZFS discussion
> several
> > comparisons were made such as FreeNAS, etc.
> On a side note, if anyone has any requests for demos, I'll try to fit an
> extra
> one in. I think I asked this months ago, and didn't get too much of a
> response,
> but now that the meeting is closer, I'm sure a few people have some ideas.
> The
> planned demo is on managing third-party software and showing off the
> separation
> between base and ports, but I can go through a demo for jails or ZFS or
> whatever else as well if there is interest (and time). Unfortunately, I
> will
> not be able to do a desktop demo since I have not had the time to set that
> up
> to a point that I feel is good enough for a presentation.
>
> Otherwise, I will see you all on Saturday!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Thu Nov 20 06:54:17 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:54:17 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.19 18:22, T L wrote:
> I'm very interested in bhyve. Pleas add it to the list.
My FreeBSD box has an AMD CPU and support for AMD's SVM just landed in the
development branch a couple weeks ago, so I have not had a chance to really use
it. I will talk a bit about it, but I can't do a demo, sorry. If the bhyve AMD
patch gets MFC'd into 10-STABLE before the meeting, I will upgrade to it and
play with bhyve a bit after the presentation, but it will be my first time
really getting into it.

From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Nov 20 07:21:08 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:21:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [ubuntu-us-mn] Penguins Unbound November 2014
	Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>

Andrew -
Thanks. My main box also has an AMD CPU, as it was the most cost effective
way to get ECC RAM. Hmmm -- speaking of which, I'd be interested in your
and Linda's thoughts on the necessity of ECC when using ZFS.

Thomas

On Thursday, November 20, 2014, Andrew Berg <aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu>
wrote:

> On 2014.11.19 18:22, T L wrote:
> > I'm very interested in bhyve. Please add it to the list.
> My FreeBSD box has an AMD CPU and support for AMD's SVM just landed in the
> development branch a couple weeks ago, so I have not had a chance to
> really use
> it. I will talk a bit about it, but I can't do a demo, sorry. If the bhyve
> AMD
> patch gets MFC'd into 10-STABLE before the meeting, I will upgrade to it
> and
> play with bhyve a bit after the presentation, but it will be my first time
> really getting into it.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <javascript:;>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Nov 20 08:21:08 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:21:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [ubuntu-us-mn] Penguins Unbound November 2014
	Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <546DF8D4.2020501@kateley.com>

There are edge cases where non-ecc ram is ok with zfs... like if you 
aren't storing data there. My lab functional test system doesn't have 
ecc, my systems with my company data all have ecc. Test systems, or any 
place that has an entire copy of the exact same data, possibly in HPC. I 
have a customer that has rows(8 systems) of the exact same set of 100's 
of TB of data, but even then they use ecc. Just a mess to clean up 
later. So lab, functional test system to me is the only place it's ok. 
It is america though :)

If non-ecc'ed ram passes zfs an inaccurate block.. It can be laid into 
the pool as bad metadata and make the whole pool unreadable. A couple 
bucks more for ecc ram and you have all your data!!

linda


On 11/20/14, 7:21 AM, T L wrote:
> Andrew -
> Thanks. My main box also has an AMD CPU, as it was the most cost 
> effective way to get ECC RAM. Hmmm -- speaking of which, I'd be 
> interested in your and Linda's thoughts on the necessity of ECC when 
> using ZFS.
>
> Thomas
>
> On Thursday, November 20, 2014, Andrew Berg 
> <aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu <mailto:aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu>> 
> wrote:
>
>     On 2014.11.19 18:22, T L wrote:
>     > I'm very interested in bhyve. Please add it to the list.
>     My FreeBSD box has an AMD CPU and support for AMD's SVM just
>     landed in the
>     development branch a couple weeks ago, so I have not had a chance
>     to really use
>     it. I will talk a bit about it, but I can't do a demo, sorry. If
>     the bhyve AMD
>     patch gets MFC'd into 10-STABLE before the meeting, I will upgrade
>     to it and
>     play with bhyve a bit after the presentation, but it will be my
>     first time
>     really getting into it.
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <javascript:;>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Thu Nov 20 08:24:07 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:24:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [ubuntu-us-mn] Penguins Unbound November 2014
	Meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <546DF987.6090208@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.20 07:21, T L wrote:
> Andrew -  
> Thanks. My main box also has an AMD CPU, as it was the most cost effective way
> to get ECC RAM. Hmmm -- speaking of which, I'd be interested in your and
> Linda's thoughts on the necessity of ECC when using ZFS. 
ZFS doesn't make a difference. ECC RAM is better than non-ECC RAM, and your
data will be messed up if your non-ECC RAM fails regardless. ZFS will usually
see that something is wrong and complain about it, even if it can't fix the
problem.

From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Nov 20 08:27:46 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:27:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [ubuntu-us-mn] Penguins Unbound November 2014
	Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546DF987.6090208@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DF987.6090208@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <546DFA62.4020609@kateley.com>


On 11/20/14, 8:24 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2014.11.20 07:21, T L wrote:
>> Andrew -
>> Thanks. My main box also has an AMD CPU, as it was the most cost effective way
>> to get ECC RAM. Hmmm -- speaking of which, I'd be interested in your and
>> Linda's thoughts on the necessity of ECC when using ZFS.
> ZFS doesn't make a difference. ECC RAM is better than non-ECC RAM, and your
> data will be messed up if your non-ECC RAM fails regardless. ZFS will usually
> see that something is wrong and complain about it, even if it can't fix the
> problem.
I always try to make this distinction. Non-ecc is messing up data 
everyday, all the time.. At least with zfs you will know about it
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Thu Nov 20 08:35:28 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:35:28 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [ubuntu-us-mn] Penguins Unbound November 2014
	Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546DFA62.4020609@kateley.com>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DF987.6090208@my.hennepintech.edu> <546DFA62.4020609@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <546DFC30.80600@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.20 08:27, Linda Kateley wrote:
> 
> On 11/20/14, 8:24 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
>> On 2014.11.20 07:21, T L wrote:
>>> Andrew -
>>> Thanks. My main box also has an AMD CPU, as it was the most cost effective way
>>> to get ECC RAM. Hmmm -- speaking of which, I'd be interested in your and
>>> Linda's thoughts on the necessity of ECC when using ZFS.
>> ZFS doesn't make a difference. ECC RAM is better than non-ECC RAM, and your
>> data will be messed up if your non-ECC RAM fails regardless. ZFS will usually
>> see that something is wrong and complain about it, even if it can't fix the
>> problem.
> I always try to make this distinction. Non-ecc is messing up data 
> everyday, all the time.. At least with zfs you will know about it
This reminds me: I should get some motherboard recommendations at the meeting.
My current mobo supports ECC RAM, but apparently only some 2GB and 1GB
versions, whereas it will be fine with 4GB sticks of non-ECC RAM. I actually
had one of the sticks fail and mess things up. In this case, ZFS was actually
able to repair all of the damage because of the redundancy in the pool, and it
would have taken ages to find out that I had bad RAM if not for checksum
failures during scrubs.


From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Nov 20 11:49:50 2014
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:49:50 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] [ubuntu-us-mn] Penguins Unbound November 2014
	Meeting
In-Reply-To: <546DFC30.80600@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <CAAvSaRr=_DPD-0oL0t=RWUu2m5KJ7D9qg9OPG4300nH4HtkgHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546C9607.1080809@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCyCCGWWoe448ij3LutpXzcOtG7Rw7B4N1U544JmCP-rig@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DE479.6010700@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <CAE0VmCzr7sYxBmTBXh6XH7D_PB76hAWUshB2TRXzyjQYUzvEKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <546DF987.6090208@my.hennepintech.edu>
 <546DFA62.4020609@kateley.com> <546DFC30.80600@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCxASh0agHyob3DWY2Jz3KOtkw=bjgp0b2L7mYYV2SZo2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Here's my $0.02 on home system design.  I'm very interested to hear
what others are using in SOHO production or lab environments.


I use an ASUS motherboard with an AMD FX-series CPU.  Many ASUS boards
support ECC, even if they don't exactly jump up and down about it.
This board would support up to 32G across it's four RAM slots:

>From my Microcenter 2012 receipt bundle:
SKU DESCRIPTION QUANTITY PRICE
870741 M5A97 R2.0 Socket AM3+ ATX AMD Motherboard $57.99
006759 FX 6300 Black Edition 3.5GHz Six-Core Socket AM3+ Boxed Processor $129.99

Sadly, the FX-series CPU line hasn't really advanced for a number of
years and, I gather, may not in the future.  The A-series CPU line /
APUs of AMD don't support ECC at this time.

Intel has unlocked ECC support lower in their CPU line than in the past:
http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced?ECCMemory=true&MarketSegment=DT

For example, the Pentium G1840 which supports up to 32G of ECC has a
box price of just $42.

That said, the cheapest ECC supporting motherboard that I know of for
Intel sockets is $168 :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182819

A comparable processor to the FX-6300 might be the i-4130 at $120:
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/351/AMD_FX-Series_FX-6300_vs_Intel_Core_i3_i3-4130.html

So, the Intel solution is $290 and the AMD one is about $160 (current
prices, not the ones above).

In the context of a 32G RAM, 28T of drive space system, that's not
much.  In the context of a 4G RAM, 4T drive space system, it's a
noticeable fraction of the cost.

Thomas


On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Andrew Berg
<aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu> wrote:
> On 2014.11.20 08:27, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>> On 11/20/14, 8:24 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
>>> On 2014.11.20 07:21, T L wrote:
>>>> Andrew -
>>>> Thanks. My main box also has an AMD CPU, as it was the most cost effective way
>>>> to get ECC RAM. Hmmm -- speaking of which, I'd be interested in your and
>>>> Linda's thoughts on the necessity of ECC when using ZFS.
>>> ZFS doesn't make a difference. ECC RAM is better than non-ECC RAM, and your
>>> data will be messed up if your non-ECC RAM fails regardless. ZFS will usually
>>> see that something is wrong and complain about it, even if it can't fix the
>>> problem.
>> I always try to make this distinction. Non-ecc is messing up data
>> everyday, all the time.. At least with zfs you will know about it
> This reminds me: I should get some motherboard recommendations at the meeting.
> My current mobo supports ECC RAM, but apparently only some 2GB and 1GB
> versions, whereas it will be fine with 4GB sticks of non-ECC RAM. I actually
> had one of the sticks fail and mess things up. In this case, ZFS was actually
> able to repair all of the damage because of the redundancy in the pool, and it
> would have taken ages to find out that I had bad RAM if not for checksum
> failures during scrubs.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From john.a.frisk at gmail.com  Thu Nov 20 23:37:20 2014
From: john.a.frisk at gmail.com (John Frisk)
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:37:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Reminder: Penguins Unbound November 2014 Meeting
Message-ID: <CAAvSaRo9ggBjbt7D7pTx9kMPZd7eBD6pA+Ff_WZnWzRPxdHFsA@mail.gmail.com>

Please join us for the final formal 2014 meeting at TIES Snelling room
@10AM Central Saturday November 22rd.  Andrew Berg will be showing us
FreeBSD and compare/contrast some of the capabilities of it with Linux
systems.  It will be a good discussion as earlier in the year when we had
the ZFS discussion several comparisons were made such as FreeNAS, etc.

The Snelling room is in the main building and it is best to park in the lot
adjacent to Snelling Ave. and then proceed to the front doors on the corner
of Snelling and Larpenteur.

http://www.penguinsunbound.com/
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From mattwj2002 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 22 02:56:48 2014
From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matthew Junk)
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2014 08:56:48 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?To=3A=09cottagesofedina?=
Message-ID: <D78CFC2207EBB3F57BE76F1576FE36BA@jomini.rs>

http://littlescholars.com.sg/lcsfxrim/xclzhzooltdsfmgcsdvvl.xguauvlmqfliywqp 
























 Matthew Junk 
 
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sat Nov 22 02:53:17 2014
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (tclug at freakzilla.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 02:53:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] To:	cottagesofedina
In-Reply-To: <D78CFC2207EBB3F57BE76F1576FE36BA@jomini.rs>
References: <D78CFC2207EBB3F57BE76F1576FE36BA@jomini.rs>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1411220252370.6144@cockerel.yaron.org>



On Fri, 22 Nov 2014, Matthew Junk wrote:
> 
> Matthew Junk

Junk by name, junk by nature!

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sun Nov 23 12:25:05 2014
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 12:25:05 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Misc Free Stuff
Message-ID: <e869ec6cd15f5fca7be3b238be9a5197@mail.usinternet.com>

 

Please e-mail me if you're interested in any or all of this stuff and we
can arrange a pickup/drop-off. I live in the east metro and work in the
west metro.

All of it was known to be working prior to it sitting around in
bins/boxes for the last several years so I assume it all still works,
obviously no guarantees.

1x TEAC brand USB 3.5" floppy drive

1x Internal floppy IDE cable (I did plug this into my Linux Mint box and
it recognized it but I don't have a floppy disk to fully test)

1x Unknown brand/model PCI video card (VGA not DVI). Nothing fancy,
random low-end card most likely.

1x Netgear PCI wireless NIC model: WG311v3

1x ASUS wifi router model: RT-N12 (hw version B1)

1x KVM cable (VGA, PS2 mouse, PS2 keyboard)

1x HP power suplpy model 0957-2094
Here is a photo of it I found online:
http://www.primelec.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/0/9/0957-2094-pic1_1.jpg

1x Dell power supply model PA-1650-05D
photo of it found online:
http://image.ofweek.com/uploadfile/comimg/big/Genuine-Dell-PA-12-Power-AC-Adapter-Yd637-PA-1650-05D3-76371.jpg


 
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 27 19:53:57 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 19:53:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Pidgin Developer PPA will not install
Message-ID: <BAY168-W1782C7A9523910D40A7BE7997E0@phx.gbl>

Hello, I am trying to install the ----> ppa:pidgin-developers/ppa <----onto my linuxmint maya desktop computer. 

I have also tried adding the following repository to my software sources list ----> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/pidgin-developers/ppa/ubuntu precise main  

1. code ----> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pidgin-developers/ppa

Terminal Reports as follows:
--------------------------------------
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pidgin-developers/ppa
You are about to add the following PPA to your system:
This PPA contains packages of the current version of Pidgin for all versions of Ubuntu currently supported on the desktop. This allows you to stay current with Pidgin while using a stable release of Ubuntu.
More info: https://launchpad.net/~pidgin-developer ... ubuntu/ppa
Press [ENTER] to continue or ctrl-c to cancel adding it

Executing: gpg --ignore-time-conflict --no-options --no-default-keyring --secret-keyring /tmp/tmp.sRekqrI2sR --trustdb-name /etc/apt/trustdb.gpg --keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --primary-keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:80/ --recv 67265EB522BDD6B1C69E66ED7FB8BEE0A1F196A8
gpg: requesting key A1F196A8 from hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com
gpg: failed to create temporary file `/etc/apt/.#lk0x8c13910.desk/paul-HP.20273': No such file or directory
gpg: can't allocate lock for `/etc/apt/trusted.gpg'
gpg: failed to create temporary file `/tmp/.#lk0x8c13910.desk/paul-HP.20273': No such file or directory
gpg: can't allocate lock for `/tmp/tmp.sRekqrI2sR'
gpg: error writing keyring `/etc/apt/trusted.gpg': general error
gpg: key A1F196A8: public key "[User ID not found]" imported
gpg: error reading `[stream]': general error
gpg: Total number processed: 0
gpg: imported: 1 (RSA: 1)
paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $ 

2. code ----> apt-key list

Terminal Reports as follows:
--------------------------------------
apt-key list
gpg: failed to create temporary file `/home/paul/.gnupg/.#lk0x9afc8d0.desk/paul-HP.20288': No such file or directory
gpg: fatal: can't create lock for `/home/paul/.gnupg/trustdb.gpg'
secmem usage: 0/0 bytes in 0/0 blocks of pool 0/32768
paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $

3. code ----> sudo apt-get update

Terminal Reports as follows:
--------------------------------------
sudo apt-get update
Get:1 http://packages.linuxmint.com maya Release.gpg [198 B]
Get:2 http://packages.linuxmint.com maya Release [18.6 kB]
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise Release.gpg
Get:3 http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates Release.gpg [198 B]
Hit http://archive.canonical.com precise Release.gpg
Get:4 http://ppa.launchpad.net precise Release.gpg [316 B]
Get:5 http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security Release.gpg [198 B]
Get:6 http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/main i386 Packages [18.2 kB]
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise Release
Get:7 http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/upstream i386 Packages [10.6 kB]
Get:8 http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/import i386 Packages [41.5 kB]
Get:9 http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security Release [53.0 kB]
Hit http://archive.canonical.com precise Release
Get:10 http://ppa.launchpad.net precise Release [12.4 kB]
Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net precise Release
Hit http://archive.getdeb.net precise-getdeb Release.gpg
Get:11 http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates Release [194 kB]
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/import TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.canonical.com precise/partner i386 Packages
Get:12 http://ppa.launchpad.net precise/main Sources [2,072 B]
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/main TranslationIndex
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/upstream TranslationIndex
Ign http://archive.canonical.com precise/partner TranslationIndex
Get:13 http://ppa.launchpad.net precise/main i386 Packages [3,365 B]
Get:14 http://ppa.launchpad.net precise/main TranslationIndex [72 B]
Get:15 http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/main i386 Packages [481 kB]
Get:16 http://ppa.launchpad.net precise/main Translation-en [1,917 B]
Hit http://archive.getdeb.net precise-getdeb Release
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/main i386 Packages
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/restricted i386 Packages
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/universe i386 Packages
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/multiverse i386 Packages
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/main TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/multiverse TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/restricted TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/universe TranslationIndex
Get:17 http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/main i386 Packages [879 kB]
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/import Translation-en_US
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/import Translation-en
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/main Translation-en_US
Get:18 http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/restricted i386 Packages [4,620 B]
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/main Translation-en
Get:19 http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/universe i386 Packages [107 kB]
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/upstream Translation-en_US
Ign http://packages.linuxmint.com maya/upstream Translation-en
Ign http://archive.canonical.com precise/partner Translation-en_US
Ign http://archive.canonical.com precise/partner Translation-en
Hit http://archive.getdeb.net precise-getdeb/apps i386 Packages
Get:20 http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/multiverse i386 Packages [2,634 B]
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/main TranslationIndex
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/multiverse TranslationIndex
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/restricted TranslationIndex
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/universe TranslationIndex
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/main Translation-en
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/multiverse Translation-en
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/restricted Translation-en
Hit http://security.ubuntu.com precise-security/universe Translation-en
Ign http://archive.getdeb.net precise-getdeb/apps TranslationIndex
Get:21 http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/restricted i386 Packages [13.2 kB]
Get:22 http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/universe i386 Packages [257 kB]
Get:23 http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/multiverse i386 Packages [15.5 kB]
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/main TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/multiverse TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/restricted TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/universe TranslationIndex
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/main Translation-en
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/multiverse Translation-en
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/restricted Translation-en
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise/universe Translation-en
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/main Translation-en
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/multiverse Translation-en
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/restricted Translation-en
Hit http://archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/universe Translation-en
Ign http://archive.getdeb.net precise-getdeb/apps Translation-en_US
Ign http://archive.getdeb.net precise-getdeb/apps Translation-en
Fetched 2,116 kB in 10s (206 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
W: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net precise Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 7FB8BEE0A1F196A8
paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $

4. code ----> sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 7FB8BEE0A1F196A8

Terminal Reports as follows:
------------------------
sudo apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 7FB8BEE0A1F196A8
Executing: gpg --ignore-time-conflict --no-options --no-default-keyring --secret-keyring /tmp/tmp.AKMCE5mmCJ --trustdb-name /etc/apt/trustdb.gpg --keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --primary-keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 7FB8BEE0A1F196A8
gpg: requesting key A1F196A8 from hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com
gpg: failed to create temporary file `/etc/apt/.#lk0x91edc40.desk/paul-HP.5451': No such file or directory
gpg: can't allocate lock for `/etc/apt/trusted.gpg'
gpg: failed to create temporary file `/tmp/.#lk0x91edc40.desk/paul-HP.5451': No such file or directory
gpg: can't allocate lock for `/tmp/tmp.AKMCE5mmCJ'
gpg: error writing keyring `/etc/apt/trusted.gpg': general error
gpg: key A1F196A8: public key "[User ID not found]" imported
gpg: error reading `[stream]': general error
gpg: Total number processed: 0
gpg: imported: 1 (RSA: 1)
paul at desk/paul-HP ~ $

Is there a way I can simply add this public key?

5. code ----> apt-key list <---- command on my laptop running LinuxMint 17 and no errors output/print in terminal. <----obviously this is possibly irrelevant as to adding the key to the maya desktop although I wanted to add it to my message. 


6. code ----> apt-key list <---- command on a computer that is running ubuntu 10.04 and the same gpg error as maya's results.

I downloaded the pidgin 2.10.11 source package - I unzipped it.

I cd into the package directory in terminal and inputed the following.

7. code ----> ./configure

Terminal Reports as follows:
------------------------
paul at desk/paul-HP ~/Desktop/pidgin-2.10.11 $ ./configure
checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /bin/mkdir -p
checking for gawk... gawk
checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
checking whether make supports nested variables... yes
checking whether make supports nested variables... (cached) yes
checking for sed... /bin/sed
checking for gcc... gcc
checking whether the C compiler works... yes
checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out
checking for suffix of executables... 
checking whether we are cross compiling... no
checking for suffix of object files... o
checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed
checking whether gcc understands -c and -o together... yes
checking for style of include used by make... GNU
checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3
checking how to print strings... printf
checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed
checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... /bin/grep
checking for egrep... /bin/grep -E
checking for fgrep... /bin/grep -F
checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld
checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes
checking for BSD- or MS-compatible name lister (nm)... /usr/bin/nm -B
checking the name lister (/usr/bin/nm -B) interface... BSD nm
checking whether ln -s works... yes
checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 1572864
checking whether the shell understands some XSI constructs... yes
checking whether the shell understands "+="... yes
checking how to convert i686-pc-linux-gnu file names to i686-pc-linux-gnu format... func_convert_file_noop
checking how to convert i686-pc-linux-gnu file names to toolchain format... func_convert_file_noop
checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r
checking for objdump... objdump
checking how to recognize dependent libraries... pass_all
checking for dlltool... no
checking how to associate runtime and link libraries... printf %s\n
checking for ar... ar
checking for archiver @FILE support... @
checking for strip... strip
checking for ranlib... ranlib
checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc object... ok
checking for sysroot... no
checking for mt... mt
checking if mt is a manifest tool... no
checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E
checking for ANSI C header files... yes
checking for sys/types.h... yes
checking for sys/stat.h... yes
checking for stdlib.h... yes
checking for string.h... yes
checking for memory.h... yes
checking for strings.h... yes
checking for inttypes.h... yes
checking for stdint.h... yes
checking for unistd.h... yes
checking for dlfcn.h... yes
checking for objdir... .libs
checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no
checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC -DPIC
checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC -DPIC works... yes
checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes
checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes
checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... (cached) yes
checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes
checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no
checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so
checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate
checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes
checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build shared libraries... yes
checking whether to build static libraries... no
checking for pkg-config... /usr/bin/pkg-config
checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes
checking for size_t... yes
checking for working alloca.h... yes
checking for alloca... yes
checking whether __SUNPRO_C is declared... no
checking for ANSI C header files... (cached) yes
checking for sys/wait.h that is POSIX.1 compatible... yes
checking arpa/nameser_compat.h usability... yes
checking arpa/nameser_compat.h presence... yes
checking for arpa/nameser_compat.h... yes
checking fcntl.h usability... yes
checking fcntl.h presence... yes
checking for fcntl.h... yes
checking sys/time.h usability... yes
checking sys/time.h presence... yes
checking for sys/time.h... yes
checking for unistd.h... (cached) yes
checking locale.h usability... yes
checking locale.h presence... yes
checking for locale.h... yes
checking signal.h usability... yes
checking signal.h presence... yes
checking for signal.h... yes
checking for stdint.h... (cached) yes
checking regex.h usability... yes
checking regex.h presence... yes
checking for regex.h... yes
checking for an ANSI C-conforming const... yes
checking whether struct tm is in sys/time.h or time.h... time.h
checking size of time_t... 4
checking whether byte ordering is bigendian... no
checking return type of signal handlers... void
checking for strftime... yes
checking for strdup... yes
checking for strstr... yes
checking for atexit... yes
checking for setlocale... yes
checking for getopt_long... yes
checking for inet_aton... yes
checking for __res_query in -lresolv... yes
checking for gethostent in -lnsl... yes
checking for socket... yes
checking for getaddrinfo... yes
checking for inet_ntop... yes
checking for getifaddrs... yes
checking for socklen_t... yes
checking for struct sockaddr.sa_len... no
checking whether IPV6_V6ONLY is declared... yes
checking for special C compiler options needed for large files... no
checking for _FILE_OFFSET_BITS value needed for large files... 64
checking for dlopen... no
checking for dlopen in -ldl... yes
checking for library containing ceil... -lm
checking for fileno()... yes
checking for the %z format string in strftime()... yes
checking whether NLS is requested... yes
checking for intltool-update... /usr/bin/intltool-update
checking for intltool-merge... /usr/bin/intltool-merge
checking for intltool-extract... /usr/bin/intltool-extract
checking for xgettext... /usr/bin/xgettext
checking for msgmerge... /usr/bin/msgmerge
checking for msgfmt... /usr/bin/msgfmt
checking for gmsgfmt... /usr/bin/msgfmt
checking for perl... /usr/bin/perl
checking for perl >= 5.8.1... 5.14.2
checking for XML::Parser... ok
checking for locale.h... (cached) yes
checking for LC_MESSAGES... yes
checking libintl.h usability... yes
checking libintl.h presence... yes
checking for libintl.h... yes
checking for ngettext in libc... yes
checking for dgettext in libc... yes
checking for bind_textdomain_codeset... yes
checking for msgfmt... (cached) /usr/bin/msgfmt
checking for dcgettext... yes
checking if msgfmt accepts -c... yes
checking for gmsgfmt... (cached) /usr/bin/msgfmt
checking for xgettext... (cached) /usr/bin/xgettext
checking for catalogs to be installed...  af am ar ast az be at latin bg bn bn_IN bs ca ca at valencia cs da de dz el en_AU en_CA en_GB eo es et eu fa fi fr ga gl gu he hi hr hu id it ja ka kk km kn ko ku ku_IQ lt lv mai mhr mk mn mr my_MM nb ne nl nn oc or pa pl pt_BR pt ps ro ru si sk sl sq sr sr at latin sv sw ta te th tr tt uk ur vi xh zh_CN zh_HK zh_TW
checking for GLIB... no
no
configure: error: 

You must have GLib 2.16.0 or newer development headers installed to build.

If you have these installed already you may need to install pkg-config so
I can find them.

paul at desk/paul-HP ~/Desktop/pidgin-2.10.11 $ 
------------------------
Source looks like it's for an i686 pc not 32 bit pc correct?

For what it may help I compared the permissions and ownership on /etc/apt and folder/files .gnupg across all 3 operating systems and they are identical.

Thanks you for your time any assistance would be appreciated.



 		 	   		  
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Nov 27 20:49:11 2014
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:49:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Pidgin Developer PPA will not install
In-Reply-To: <BAY168-W1782C7A9523910D40A7BE7997E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY168-W1782C7A9523910D40A7BE7997E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A95B2663-20B1-4781-9358-0D72D6A198BF@cwis.biz>

1) i686 (or anything x86) is 32bit. 
	x64 is 64bit.
2) Did you try hunting down the right GLIB it?s looking for? I suspect the version for your Mint build is not current or your libraries are askey


> On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:53 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello, I am trying to install the ----> ppa:pidgin-developers/ppa <----onto my linuxmint maya desktop computer. 
> 
> I have also tried adding the following repository to my software sources list ----> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/pidgin-developers/ppa/ubuntu <http://ppa.launchpad.net/pidgin-developers/ppa/ubuntu> precise main  
> 
> {{SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP}}
> checking for GLIB... no
> no
> configure: error: 
> 
> You must have GLib 2.16.0 or newer development headers installed to build.
> 
> If you have these installed already you may need to install pkg-config so
> I can find them.
> 
> paul at desk/paul-HP ~/Desktop/pidgin-2.10.11 $ 
> ------------------------
> Source looks like it's for an i686 pc not 32 bit pc correct?
> 
> For what it may help I compared the permissions and ownership on /etc/apt and folder/files .gnupg across all 3 operating systems and they are identical.
> 
> Thanks you for your time any assistance would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
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From pj.world at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 28 17:54:19 2014
From: pj.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:54:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Pidgin Developer PPA will not install
In-Reply-To: <A95B2663-20B1-4781-9358-0D72D6A198BF@cwis.biz>
References: <BAY168-W1782C7A9523910D40A7BE7997E0@phx.gbl>,
 <A95B2663-20B1-4781-9358-0D72D6A198BF@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <BAY168-W797F96AA211B17C33847A3997E0@phx.gbl>

Thanks for your reply Ryan. 

Mint Maya claims support until 2017 ----> http://www.linuxmint.com/oldreleases.php

In reply to your question 2) I tried code ----> glib-config --version <---- in the terminal with the following output. 

paul at desk/paul-HP ~/Desktop/pidgin-2.10.11 $ glib-config --version
No command 'glib-config' found, did you mean:
 Command 'gdlib-config' from package 'libgd2-xpm-dev' (main)
 Command 'gdlib-config' from package 'libgd2-noxpm-dev' (main)
glib-config: command not found
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
package ----> libgd2-xpm-dev and pkg-config<---- do show as installed.
code ----> dpkg -l | less <---- They are listed below.
ii  libgd2-xpm                             2.0.36~rc1~dfsg-6ubuntu2                GD Graphics Library version 2
ii  pkg-config                             0.26-1ubuntu1                           manage compile and link flags for libraries

libgd2-noxpm-dev <---- is not listed as installed but does appear as available via synaptic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately,
 it's not showing any listing for 'glib*' in Synaptic at this time. 
<---- backports was enabled/synaptic refreshed.

Packages ----> build-essentials and linux-headers are installed <---- if that matters in this case.

I attached a screenshot of Synaptic listing's of programs in that specific letter/package area. 

Would my next step possibly be obtaining a glib version from the website here? ----> https://developer.gnome.org/glib/
It does not appear that Mint Maya ships with glib available in synaptic at all.

Thanks for you help


From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:49:11 -0600
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Pidgin Developer PPA will not install

1) i686 (or anything x86) is 32bit. 	x64 is 64bit.2) Did you try hunting down the right GLIB it?s looking for? I suspect the version for your Mint build is not current or your libraries are askey

On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:53 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:Hello, I am trying to install the ----> ppa:pidgin-developers/ppa <----onto my linuxmint maya desktop computer. 

I have also tried adding the following repository to my software sources list ----> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/pidgin-developers/ppa/ubuntu precise main  

{{SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP}}checking for GLIB... nono
configure: error: 

You must have GLib 2.16.0 or newer development headers installed to build.

If you have these installed already you may need to install pkg-config so
I can find them.

paul at desk/paul-HP ~/Desktop/pidgin-2.10.11 $ 
------------------------
Source looks like it's for an i686 pc not 32 bit pc correct?

For what it may help I compared the permissions and ownership on /etc/apt and folder/files .gnupg across all 3 operating systems and they are identical.

Thanks you for your time any assistance would be appreciated.



_______________________________________________TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 		 	   		  
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From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sat Nov 29 09:06:49 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 09:06:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance;
	or other Linux raid suggestions?
Message-ID: <CACEdYO0OVHUO8E5x6xoGPAZZ3zinJytfuFczDpyBsMgWDcrSaA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

I have a N54L Proliant Microserver I've been using that runs a linux
software RAID1 with two 1 TB drives at home. I'd like to fill up the
remaining next two bays with 1 TB drives for more space and additional
redundancy (aiming for two drive failure). Performance is not a huge
factor as it is a home server (I say this as the four bays use a port
multiplier, not a raid card). The OS runs on a separate drive and SATA
channel (so, 5 total SATA drives are possible), perhaps it's worth
doing 5 1 TB drives and throw the OS into the mix?

That said, I attended last years presentation on ZFS, and have even
played around a little with thumb drives and Linux on ZFS with no
issues. The server supports ECC, however I already purchased the RAM
for it as non-ECC and 16 gigs worth, so I'd hate to throw away that
investment to purchase more expensive ECC. Is it worth considering
even using ZFS on Linux with non-ECC? The presentation leaned toward
no, and that is the general consensus I'm seeing on forums. So,
perhaps stick to a software Linux raid6?

Here are are my wants:
* Rock solid reliability and data integrity; I back up to Crashplan
via headless nightly, but would like to minimize any dependency on
this
* Needs to survive the rare, but inevitable power failure; perhaps a
UPS or other recommendations?
* Must be able to have minimum 2 drive failure
* Snapshots would be nice
* Support for encryption would nice, which the software raid option
gives me, am familiar with setting up LUKS

Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital
drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other
suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com

From aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu  Sat Nov 29 10:29:45 2014
From: aberg010 at my.hennepintech.edu (Andrew Berg)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 10:29:45 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance;
 or other Linux raid suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO0OVHUO8E5x6xoGPAZZ3zinJytfuFczDpyBsMgWDcrSaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO0OVHUO8E5x6xoGPAZZ3zinJytfuFczDpyBsMgWDcrSaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5479F479.6020308@my.hennepintech.edu>

On 2014.11.29 09:06, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
> That said, I attended last years presentation on ZFS, and have even
> played around a little with thumb drives and Linux on ZFS with no
> issues. The server supports ECC, however I already purchased the RAM
> for it as non-ECC and 16 gigs worth, so I'd hate to throw away that
> investment to purchase more expensive ECC. Is it worth considering
> even using ZFS on Linux with non-ECC? The presentation leaned toward
> no, and that is the general consensus I'm seeing on forums. So,
> perhaps stick to a software Linux raid6?
No. Didn't I just dispel this silly myth a week ago on this list? Memory
failure is going to ruin your day. It's that simple. Other software RAID
systems and filesystems are NOT going to make bad memory suddenly start giving
correct data again. In fact, they are mostly just going to hum along with
corrupt data, oblivious to the problem (depending on the severity of the issues
in RAM). ZFS has a fighting chance at saving some of your data, whereas others
don't. If you are that concerned, go buy ECC RAM. Linda isn't saying "don't use
ZFS", she's saying "do use ECC RAM". In the combination of bad RAM corrupting
your data and ZFS trying to save it, ZFS is not the problem.

> Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital
> drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other
> suggestions?
I would suggest WD Reds unless performance is a big factor. Of "you can have
cheap, reliable, or fast, pick two", they are cheap and reliable. IIRC, WD
Blacks are good too, being reliable and fast.

From lkateley at kateley.com  Sat Nov 29 13:02:48 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 13:02:48 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance;
 or other Linux raid suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO0OVHUO8E5x6xoGPAZZ3zinJytfuFczDpyBsMgWDcrSaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACEdYO0OVHUO8E5x6xoGPAZZ3zinJytfuFczDpyBsMgWDcrSaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <547A1858.5060208@kateley.com>


On 11/29/14, 9:06 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I have a N54L Proliant Microserver I've been using that runs a linux
> software RAID1 with two 1 TB drives at home. I'd like to fill up the
> remaining next two bays with 1 TB drives for more space and additional
> redundancy (aiming for two drive failure). Performance is not a huge
> factor as it is a home server (I say this as the four bays use a port
> multiplier, not a raid card). The OS runs on a separate drive and SATA
> channel (so, 5 total SATA drives are possible), perhaps it's worth
> doing 5 1 TB drives and throw the OS into the mix?
I do a lot of work with zfs. It is my primary business. I kind of like 
the architecture in freenas of putting the os on 2 flash drives. FreeNAS 
9.3 has mirrored boot or freebsd or omnios.

I have posted a zfs bootcamp on my website if you would like 
..http://kateleyco.com/?page_id=783
>
> That said, I attended last years presentation on ZFS, and have even
> played around a little with thumb drives and Linux on ZFS with no
> issues. The server supports ECC, however I already purchased the RAM
> for it as non-ECC and 16 gigs worth, so I'd hate to throw away that
> investment to purchase more expensive ECC. Is it worth considering
> even using ZFS on Linux with non-ECC? The presentation leaned toward
> no, and that is the general consensus I'm seeing on forums. So,
> perhaps stick to a software Linux raid6?
If you want rock solid reliability, it only comes with ecc, Not to say I 
haven't seen systems run for a long time without it... but the chances 
are that you may have total pool failure. ZFS does self healing which 
most other fs's do not. If you send corrupt metadata to the pool... well 
at least you will know you have the error.

>
> Here are are my wants:
> * Rock solid reliability and data integrity; I back up to Crashplan
> via headless nightly, but would like to minimize any dependency on
> this
> * Needs to survive the rare, but inevitable power failure; perhaps a
> UPS or other recommendations?
ZFS if properly architected can survive most things. At sun, they would 
run a series of over 100 of the most dreadful tests on every build, 
nightly. COW makes sure that all inflight data is ignored and on disk 
state is always valid.
> * Must be able to have minimum 2 drive failure
> * Snapshots would be nice
> * Support for encryption would nice, which the software raid option
> gives me, am familiar with setting up LUKS
Freenas has encryption built in.
>
> Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital
> drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other
> suggestions?
The wd is the most widely used.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From lkateley at kateley.com  Sat Nov 29 13:22:06 2014
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 13:22:06 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance;
 or other Linux raid suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <5479F479.6020308@my.hennepintech.edu>
References: <CACEdYO0OVHUO8E5x6xoGPAZZ3zinJytfuFczDpyBsMgWDcrSaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5479F479.6020308@my.hennepintech.edu>
Message-ID: <547A1CDE.30207@kateley.com>

I will almost always say, the only place i would use non-ecc is 
functional test, no live data.

I have only seen it happen probably 15-20 times in the last 10 years 
that i have been working with system with zfs. Probably 1000's of 
installs.. but when it happens, it really sucks. Whole pool 
unrecoverable. nothing you can do. restore from backup might not even 
work because the corruption could also live out there.

I also would be really careful with the linux distros you use. the 
ubuntu's 13+ seem to be more stable.. I am on the zfs on linux list and 
probably once a month I see total pool failure or my datasets 
disappeared or some other problems in the subject(I will say i don't 
read every email)

I hate to sound like a shill for freebsd.. but the zfs has been in there 
since 2005 and most of the holes have been plugged. ZFS on linux has 
been used at jpl that same amount of time, but the "mass consumption" of 
zol has been a shorter period of time.


On 11/29/14, 10:29 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
> On 2014.11.29 09:06, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>> That said, I attended last years presentation on ZFS, and have even
>> played around a little with thumb drives and Linux on ZFS with no
>> issues. The server supports ECC, however I already purchased the RAM
>> for it as non-ECC and 16 gigs worth, so I'd hate to throw away that
>> investment to purchase more expensive ECC. Is it worth considering
>> even using ZFS on Linux with non-ECC? The presentation leaned toward
>> no, and that is the general consensus I'm seeing on forums. So,
>> perhaps stick to a software Linux raid6?
> No. Didn't I just dispel this silly myth a week ago on this list? Memory
> failure is going to ruin your day. It's that simple. Other software RAID
> systems and filesystems are NOT going to make bad memory suddenly start giving
> correct data again. In fact, they are mostly just going to hum along with
> corrupt data, oblivious to the problem (depending on the severity of the issues
> in RAM). ZFS has a fighting chance at saving some of your data, whereas others
> don't. If you are that concerned, go buy ECC RAM. Linda isn't saying "don't use
> ZFS", she's saying "do use ECC RAM". In the combination of bad RAM corrupting
> your data and ZFS trying to save it, ZFS is not the problem.
>
>> Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital
>> drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other
>> suggestions?
> I would suggest WD Reds unless performance is a big factor. Of "you can have
> cheap, reliable, or fast, pick two", they are cheap and reliable. IIRC, WD
> Blacks are good too, being reliable and fast.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Sun Nov 30 09:50:33 2014
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 09:50:33 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux on ZFS, ecc importance;
	or other Linux raid suggestions?
In-Reply-To: <547A1CDE.30207@kateley.com>
References: <CACEdYO0OVHUO8E5x6xoGPAZZ3zinJytfuFczDpyBsMgWDcrSaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5479F479.6020308@my.hennepintech.edu> <547A1CDE.30207@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO3e9BJS2cnAgaRFOqaCP1mo5CpA26Y6KyFKrw1hsitbTw@mail.gmail.com>

I think Andrew summed it up right, no one is saying I must use ECC,
but I should use ECC. Also, my apologies, I missed your talk last
week, I was hoping to make it, but had something come up. Thank you
for sharing again.

Looking over the cost of it, I'd need a bit of time to budget for ECC
(I assume I'd need at least 8 gigs worth for zfs?), so that likely
won't happen anytime soon. Based on what I've gathered, I will
probably stick with a Linux software raid and my current backup scheme
until I can make the leap to ECC or more likely a new box with ECC
before jumping to zfs. I know even with a Linux software raid and no
ecc there are risks, however, correct me if I'm wrong, the risk of a
hosed raid over a zfs pool appears to be less (albeit I am getting
less data integrity overall)? A lot of linux software raid wikis
forums make no mention of ECC dependencies, which is interesting, as
the with the cosmic ray issue, it is a factor.

Linda, although I do off-site backups, I do worry about corruption
hitting those, fortunately my backup provider does do snapshots and I
utilize that feature :-)

I use ArchLinux, and actually stick with latest stable kernel and have
had lots of success with it running a software raid1 and serving up
Samba, nfs, https, and sftp. There is a zfs repository which stays up
to date for Arch, although I noticed zfs on linux only really gets
updated once a year, according to zfsonlinux.org

Also, I've played around with FreeNAS, it looks really cool and
pretty, however I like the minimalist approach I get with Arch and
setting everything up just the way I want it, and I've found security
patching and building from source to be very efficient.

FreeBSD itself would be an option, I've played with it before in
addition to FreeNAS, however that would be a another new thing to
learn as the syntax is occasionally different than Linux. It is on my
list of things to immerse myself in, whenever I get around to it :-)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone,
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:
> I will almost always say, the only place i would use non-ecc is functional
> test, no live data.
>
> I have only seen it happen probably 15-20 times in the last 10 years that i
> have been working with system with zfs. Probably 1000's of installs.. but
> when it happens, it really sucks. Whole pool unrecoverable. nothing you can
> do. restore from backup might not even work because the corruption could
> also live out there.
>
> I also would be really careful with the linux distros you use. the ubuntu's
> 13+ seem to be more stable.. I am on the zfs on linux list and probably once
> a month I see total pool failure or my datasets disappeared or some other
> problems in the subject(I will say i don't read every email)
>
> I hate to sound like a shill for freebsd.. but the zfs has been in there
> since 2005 and most of the holes have been plugged. ZFS on linux has been
> used at jpl that same amount of time, but the "mass consumption" of zol has
> been a shorter period of time.
>
>
>
> On 11/29/14, 10:29 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:
>>
>> On 2014.11.29 09:06, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
>>>
>>> That said, I attended last years presentation on ZFS, and have even
>>> played around a little with thumb drives and Linux on ZFS with no
>>> issues. The server supports ECC, however I already purchased the RAM
>>> for it as non-ECC and 16 gigs worth, so I'd hate to throw away that
>>> investment to purchase more expensive ECC. Is it worth considering
>>> even using ZFS on Linux with non-ECC? The presentation leaned toward
>>> no, and that is the general consensus I'm seeing on forums. So,
>>> perhaps stick to a software Linux raid6?
>>
>> No. Didn't I just dispel this silly myth a week ago on this list? Memory
>> failure is going to ruin your day. It's that simple. Other software RAID
>> systems and filesystems are NOT going to make bad memory suddenly start
>> giving
>> correct data again. In fact, they are mostly just going to hum along with
>> corrupt data, oblivious to the problem (depending on the severity of the
>> issues
>> in RAM). ZFS has a fighting chance at saving some of your data, whereas
>> others
>> don't. If you are that concerned, go buy ECC RAM. Linda isn't saying
>> "don't use
>> ZFS", she's saying "do use ECC RAM". In the combination of bad RAM
>> corrupting
>> your data and ZFS trying to save it, ZFS is not the problem.
>>
>>> Based on a lot of recent tests, I'll probably go with Western Digital
>>> drives for the cost savings and longevity, unless anyone has other
>>> suggestions?
>>
>> I would suggest WD Reds unless performance is a big factor. Of "you can
>> have
>> cheap, reliable, or fast, pick two", they are cheap and reliable. IIRC, WD
>> Blacks are good too, being reliable and fast.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list