From jpschewe at mtu.net  Wed Apr  6 20:37:16 2016
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:37:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Python question
Message-ID: <CALpcnow7MmdJwx589sOXf4BDRBT5o4V1ij13e1Thb4xfQ=d4eA@mail.gmail.com>

The example code and question is here:
https://gist.github.com/jpschewe/98acec4764af09e74b1634cc6eafd4a2

Basically I'm finding that an object appears to have different methods
available depending on where it is accessed from. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Jon


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From zedlan at invec.net  Wed Apr  6 22:10:04 2016
From: zedlan at invec.net (zedlan at invec.net)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 03:10:04 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Python question
Message-ID: <W98568689010321459998604@atl4webmail14>

 Its possible a constructor is ill-defined/documented. Have you reviewed the constructors for the various contexts?
Jack



-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Schewe [mailto:jpschewe at mtu.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 09:37 PM
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List'
Subject: [tclug-list] Python question

The example code and question is here:
https://gist.github.com/jpschewe/98acec4764af09e74b1634cc6eafd4a2


Basically I'm finding that an object appears to have different methods available depending on where it is accessed from. Anyone have any ideas? 


Thanks


Jon



-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe







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From jpschewe at mtu.net  Thu Apr  7 04:45:16 2016
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 04:45:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Python question
In-Reply-To: <W98568689010321459998604@atl4webmail14>
References: <W98568689010321459998604@atl4webmail14>
Message-ID: <CALpcnow89kt3m1y27-sawe2yaEmy0z-mPcHy56CuWVAeN6OD_A@mail.gmail.com>

Where would a constructor be called inside my sample code? I'm using the
exact same reference to self.database in both contexts and I've even added
a print statement to ReportUtils and my code and verified that they're the
same memory address.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:10 PM, <zedlan at invec.net> wrote:

> Its possible a constructor is ill-defined/documented.  Have you reviewed
> the constructors for the various contexts?
> Jack
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Jon Schewe [mailto:jpschewe at mtu.net]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 09:37 PM
> *To:* 'TCLUG Mailing List'
> *Subject:* [tclug-list] Python question
>
> The example code and question is here:
> https://gist.github.com/jpschewe/98acec4764af09e74b1634cc6eafd4a2
>
> Basically I'm finding that an object appears to have different methods
> available depending on where it is accessed from. Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jon
>
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 08:52:32 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 08:52:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
Message-ID: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>


I'm receive "Error: header not recognized" and "cpio: premature end of 
archive" when attempting to process the following using rpm2cpio:

https://download.vivaldi.com/stable/vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm

I commonly use rpm2cpio to process rpm files and have had the issue with 
all Vivaldi's betas.  I see nothing about such a problem on their site 
so assume it's unique to rpm2cpio.  I don't use a distribution with an 
rpm extractor.

Can others successfully process the file?



From gsker at skerbitz.org  Sat Apr  9 09:44:20 2016
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (gerry)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:44:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
In-Reply-To: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
References: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>

Where did you get rpm2cpio from if you don't use a distribution with an rpm 
extractor? (rpm2cpio is an rpm extractor)
What tool did you use to download the rpm file? (is it corrupted?)

/tmp/v> rpm2cpio ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm| cpio -id
332191 blocks
/tmp/v> dpkg -l rpm2cpio
[snip]
ii  rpm2cpio                   4.12.0.1+dfsg1-3bu amd64              tool to convert RPM package to CPIO archive

/tmp/v> md5sum ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
848368665107cb1670c15639843ad58e  ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm


Nope; no problem here extracting it.

HTH,
Ger
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:

>
> I'm receive "Error: header not recognized" and "cpio: premature end of 
> archive" when attempting to process the following using rpm2cpio:
>
> https://download.vivaldi.com/stable/vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>
> I commonly use rpm2cpio to process rpm files and have had the issue with all 
> Vivaldi's betas.  I see nothing about such a problem on their site so assume 
> it's unique to rpm2cpio.  I don't use a distribution with an rpm extractor.
>
> Can others successfully process the file?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 19:16:53 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 19:16:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>
References: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>
Message-ID: <57099B75.6040007@gmail.com>


I run compiled Linux From Scratch so use neither an RPM nor DEB 
distribution package manager.  I got rpm2cpio.prl for Perl years ago and 
use it only for OpenOffice RPM files.  I just tried it on an OpenOffice 
language pack RPM file successfully.

I saw no MD5 values on their site but my md5sum matches yours.  If you 
can unpack it using rpm2cpio I'll chalk it up to a mystery as I can 
process the DEB file with ar.

----------------------------------------------------------

On 04/09/2016 09:44 AM, gerry wrote:
> Where did you get rpm2cpio from if you don't use a distribution with 
> an rpm extractor? (rpm2cpio is an rpm extractor)
> What tool did you use to download the rpm file? (is it corrupted?)
>
> /tmp/v> rpm2cpio ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm| cpio -id
> 332191 blocks
> /tmp/v> dpkg -l rpm2cpio
> [snip]
> ii  rpm2cpio                   4.12.0.1+dfsg1-3bu amd64              
> tool to convert RPM package to CPIO archive
>
> /tmp/v> md5sum ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
> 848368665107cb1670c15639843ad58e 
> ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>
>
> Nope; no problem here extracting it.
>
> HTH,
> Ger
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm receive "Error: header not recognized" and "cpio: premature end 
>> of archive" when attempting to process the following using rpm2cpio:
>>
>> https://download.vivaldi.com/stable/vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm 
>>
>>
>> I commonly use rpm2cpio to process rpm files and have had the issue 
>> with all Vivaldi's betas.  I see nothing about such a problem on 
>> their site so assume it's unique to rpm2cpio.  I don't use a 
>> distribution with an rpm extractor.
>>
>> Can others successfully process the file?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From gsker at skerbitz.org  Sun Apr 10 12:28:32 2016
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (gerry)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:28:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
In-Reply-To: <57099B75.6040007@gmail.com>
References: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>
 <57099B75.6040007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>

rhubarbguy,

I got a hold of rpm2cpio.pl and got the same error you did.
wget 'http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0210.2/att-0093/01-rpm2cpio'

You might consider getting this little python script that does the same thing.
https://github.com/ruda/rpm2cpio
      Lightweight implementation of rpm2cpio written in Python.
   The script:
     wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ruda/rpm2cpio/master/rpm2cpio.py

I see it includes the xz compression which MIGHT be the issue with the vivaldi 
rpm.
.....

While looking into this, I discovered that the 7zip program can read rpm files!
Cool.

http://manutechie.blogspot.com/2013/08/extract-rpmjartariso-in-windows-7.html

/tmp> 7z l vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm

7-Zip [64] 9.20  Copyright (c) 1999-2010 Igor Pavlov  2010-11-18
p7zip Version 9.20 (locale=en_US.UTF-8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,4 CPUs)

Listing archive: vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm

--
Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
Type = Rpm
----
Size = 45061100
--
Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio.lzma
Type = xz
Method = LZMA2:26 SHA256

    Date      Time    Attr         Size   Compressed  Name
------------------- ----- ------------ ------------  ------------------------
                     .....    170081620     45061100 
vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio
------------------- ----- ------------ ------------  ------------------------
                              170081620     45061100  1 files, 0 folders

And sure enough, it's an xz file with LZMA and an SHA256 signature.

Reading the python and perl and the shell (from
   http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18787375/how-do-i-extract-the-contents-of-an-rpm
)  are enlightening about the contents of the RPM file.


Fun times... :-)
Ger



On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:

>
> I run compiled Linux From Scratch so use neither an RPM nor DEB distribution 
> package manager.  I got rpm2cpio.prl for Perl years ago and use it only for 
> OpenOffice RPM files.  I just tried it on an OpenOffice language pack RPM 
> file successfully.
>
> I saw no MD5 values on their site but my md5sum matches yours.  If you can 
> unpack it using rpm2cpio I'll chalk it up to a mystery as I can process the 
> DEB file with ar.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 04/09/2016 09:44 AM, gerry wrote:
>> Where did you get rpm2cpio from if you don't use a distribution with an rpm 
>> extractor? (rpm2cpio is an rpm extractor)
>> What tool did you use to download the rpm file? (is it corrupted?)
>> 
>> /tmp/v> rpm2cpio ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm| cpio -id
>> 332191 blocks
>> /tmp/v> dpkg -l rpm2cpio
>> [snip]
>> ii  rpm2cpio                   4.12.0.1+dfsg1-3bu amd64              tool 
>> to convert RPM package to CPIO archive
>> 
>> /tmp/v> md5sum ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>> 848368665107cb1670c15639843ad58e ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>> 
>> 
>> Nope; no problem here extracting it.
>> 
>> HTH,
>> Ger
>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm receive "Error: header not recognized" and "cpio: premature end of 
>>> archive" when attempting to process the following using rpm2cpio:
>>> 
>>> https://download.vivaldi.com/stable/vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm 
>>> 
>>> I commonly use rpm2cpio to process rpm files and have had the issue with 
>>> all Vivaldi's betas.  I see nothing about such a problem on their site so 
>>> assume it's unique to rpm2cpio.  I don't use a distribution with an rpm 
>>> extractor.
>>> 
>>> Can others successfully process the file?
>>>

From gsker at skerbitz.org  Sun Apr 10 12:34:08 2016
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (gerry)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:34:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>
References: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>
 <57099B75.6040007@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101233520.30391@skerbitz.org>

I forgot to say that the python script worked with the vivaldi rpm for me.


--
gsker at skerbitz.org

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016, gerry wrote:

> rhubarbguy,
>
> I got a hold of rpm2cpio.pl and got the same error you did.
> wget 'http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0210.2/att-0093/01-rpm2cpio'
>
> You might consider getting this little python script that does the same 
> thing.
> https://github.com/ruda/rpm2cpio
>     Lightweight implementation of rpm2cpio written in Python.
>  The script:
>    wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ruda/rpm2cpio/master/rpm2cpio.py
>
> I see it includes the xz compression which MIGHT be the issue with the 
> vivaldi rpm.
> .....
>
> While looking into this, I discovered that the 7zip program can read rpm 
> files!
> Cool.
>
> http://manutechie.blogspot.com/2013/08/extract-rpmjartariso-in-windows-7.html
>
> /tmp> 7z l vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>
> 7-Zip [64] 9.20  Copyright (c) 1999-2010 Igor Pavlov  2010-11-18
> p7zip Version 9.20 (locale=en_US.UTF-8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,4 CPUs)
>
> Listing archive: vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>
> --
> Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
> Type = Rpm
> ----
> Size = 45061100
> --
> Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio.lzma
> Type = xz
> Method = LZMA2:26 SHA256
>
>   Date      Time    Attr         Size   Compressed  Name
> ------------------- ----- ------------ ------------  ------------------------
>                    .....    170081620     45061100 
> vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio
> ------------------- ----- ------------ ------------  ------------------------
>                             170081620     45061100  1 files, 0 folders
>
> And sure enough, it's an xz file with LZMA and an SHA256 signature.
>
> Reading the python and perl and the shell (from
>  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18787375/how-do-i-extract-the-contents-of-an-rpm
> )  are enlightening about the contents of the RPM file.
>
>
> Fun times... :-)
> Ger
>
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> 
>> I run compiled Linux From Scratch so use neither an RPM nor DEB 
>> distribution package manager.  I got rpm2cpio.prl for Perl years ago and 
>> use it only for OpenOffice RPM files.  I just tried it on an OpenOffice 
>> language pack RPM file successfully.
>> 
>> I saw no MD5 values on their site but my md5sum matches yours.  If you can 
>> unpack it using rpm2cpio I'll chalk it up to a mystery as I can process the 
>> DEB file with ar.
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> On 04/09/2016 09:44 AM, gerry wrote:
>>> Where did you get rpm2cpio from if you don't use a distribution with an 
>>> rpm extractor? (rpm2cpio is an rpm extractor)
>>> What tool did you use to download the rpm file? (is it corrupted?)
>>> 
>>> /tmp/v> rpm2cpio ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm| cpio -id
>>> 332191 blocks
>>> /tmp/v> dpkg -l rpm2cpio
>>> [snip]
>>> ii  rpm2cpio                   4.12.0.1+dfsg1-3bu amd64              tool 
>>> to convert RPM package to CPIO archive
>>> 
>>> /tmp/v> md5sum ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>>> 848368665107cb1670c15639843ad58e ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Nope; no problem here extracting it.
>>> 
>>> HTH,
>>> Ger
>>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm receive "Error: header not recognized" and "cpio: premature end of 
>>>> archive" when attempting to process the following using rpm2cpio:
>>>> 
>>>> https://download.vivaldi.com/stable/vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm 
>>>> I commonly use rpm2cpio to process rpm files and have had the issue with 
>>>> all Vivaldi's betas.  I see nothing about such a problem on their site so 
>>>> assume it's unique to rpm2cpio.  I don't use a distribution with an rpm 
>>>> extractor.
>>>> 
>>>> Can others successfully process the file?
>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 14:00:22 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:00:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>
References: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>
 <57099B75.6040007@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>
Message-ID: <570AA2C6.1070208@gmail.com>


Gerry,

Thank you.  I appreciate/admire your detail on this.  I had tried 
rpm2cpio.py after failure with rpm2cpio.prl.  I'd actually prefer a 
Python solution.  However, I received:

    raise IOError, 'the input is not a RPM package'

What command did you use?  Mine was "python rpm2cpio.py < viv*rpm | cpio 
-it."  As I had failures with both the Perl and Python scripts I assumed 
the problem was with the RPM.  I have xz on my box.

----------------------------------------------------------

On 04/10/2016 12:28 PM, gerry wrote:
> rhubarbguy,
>
> I got a hold of rpm2cpio.pl and got the same error you did.
> wget 
> 'http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0210.2/att-0093/01-rpm2cpio'
>
> You might consider getting this little python script that does the 
> same thing.
> https://github.com/ruda/rpm2cpio
>      Lightweight implementation of rpm2cpio written in Python.
>   The script:
>     wget 
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ruda/rpm2cpio/master/rpm2cpio.py
>
> I see it includes the xz compression which MIGHT be the issue with the 
> vivaldi rpm.
> .....
>
> While looking into this, I discovered that the 7zip program can read 
> rpm files!
> Cool.
>
> http://manutechie.blogspot.com/2013/08/extract-rpmjartariso-in-windows-7.html 
>
>
> /tmp> 7z l vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>
> 7-Zip [64] 9.20  Copyright (c) 1999-2010 Igor Pavlov  2010-11-18
> p7zip Version 9.20 (locale=en_US.UTF-8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,4 CPUs)
>
> Listing archive: vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>
> -- 
> Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
> Type = Rpm
> ----
> Size = 45061100
> -- 
> Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio.lzma
> Type = xz
> Method = LZMA2:26 SHA256
>
>    Date      Time    Attr         Size   Compressed  Name
> ------------------- ----- ------------ ------------ 
> ------------------------
>                     .....    170081620     45061100 
> vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio
> ------------------- ----- ------------ ------------ 
> ------------------------
>                              170081620     45061100  1 files, 0 folders
>
> And sure enough, it's an xz file with LZMA and an SHA256 signature.
>
> Reading the python and perl and the shell (from
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18787375/how-do-i-extract-the-contents-of-an-rpm
> )  are enlightening about the contents of the RPM file.
>
>
> Fun times... :-)
> Ger
>
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I run compiled Linux From Scratch so use neither an RPM nor DEB 
>> distribution package manager.  I got rpm2cpio.prl for Perl years ago 
>> and use it only for OpenOffice RPM files.  I just tried it on an 
>> OpenOffice language pack RPM file successfully.
>>
>> I saw no MD5 values on their site but my md5sum matches yours. If you 
>> can unpack it using rpm2cpio I'll chalk it up to a mystery as I can 
>> process the DEB file with ar.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> On 04/09/2016 09:44 AM, gerry wrote:
>>> Where did you get rpm2cpio from if you don't use a distribution with 
>>> an rpm extractor? (rpm2cpio is an rpm extractor)
>>> What tool did you use to download the rpm file? (is it corrupted?)
>>>
>>> /tmp/v> rpm2cpio ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm| cpio -id
>>> 332191 blocks
>>> /tmp/v> dpkg -l rpm2cpio
>>> [snip]
>>> ii  rpm2cpio                   4.12.0.1+dfsg1-3bu amd64              
>>> tool to convert RPM package to CPIO archive
>>>
>>> /tmp/v> md5sum ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>>> 848368665107cb1670c15639843ad58e 
>>> ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope; no problem here extracting it.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>> Ger
>>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm receive "Error: header not recognized" and "cpio: premature end 
>>>> of archive" when attempting to process the following using rpm2cpio:
>>>>
>>>> https://download.vivaldi.com/stable/vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm 
>>>>
>>>> I commonly use rpm2cpio to process rpm files and have had the issue 
>>>> with all Vivaldi's betas.  I see nothing about such a problem on 
>>>> their site so assume it's unique to rpm2cpio.  I don't use a 
>>>> distribution with an rpm extractor.
>>>>
>>>> Can others successfully process the file?
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> .
>


From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 14:33:51 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 14:33:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>
References: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>
 <57099B75.6040007@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>
Message-ID: <570AAA9F.2050305@gmail.com>


Gerry,

An update to my rpm2cpio.py reply.  I run Python 3 and found the script 
does work with Python 2.  Except it doesn't.  It processes the RPM and 
displays to the screen.  However, it doesn't actually create 
file/directories.  Did your rpm2cpio.py actually create Vivaldi?


From gsker at skerbitz.org  Sun Apr 10 16:14:59 2016
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (gerry)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2016 16:14:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] rpm2cpio Error: header not recognized
In-Reply-To: <570AA2C6.1070208@gmail.com>
References: <57090920.8040708@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604090940250.15365@skerbitz.org>
 <57099B75.6040007@gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101148470.30391@skerbitz.org>
 <570AA2C6.1070208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604101557520.633@skerbitz.org>

Maybe make sure you are running python2?

It would be good if you would cut'n'paste your exeriences so it's clear what the 
sequence of commands and responses is.

Ger


On Sun, 10 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:

>
> Gerry,
>
> Thank you.  I appreciate/admire your detail on this.  I had tried rpm2cpio.py 
> after failure with rpm2cpio.prl.  I'd actually prefer a Python solution. 
> However, I received:
>
>   raise IOError, 'the input is not a RPM package'
>
> What command did you use?  Mine was "python rpm2cpio.py < viv*rpm | cpio 
> -it."  As I had failures with both the Perl and Python scripts I assumed the 
> problem was with the RPM.  I have xz on my box.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 04/10/2016 12:28 PM, gerry wrote:
>> rhubarbguy,
>> 
>> I got a hold of rpm2cpio.pl and got the same error you did.
>> wget 
>> 'http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0210.2/att-0093/01-rpm2cpio'
>> 
>> You might consider getting this little python script that does the same 
>> thing.
>> https://github.com/ruda/rpm2cpio
>>      Lightweight implementation of rpm2cpio written in Python.
>>   The script:
>>     wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ruda/rpm2cpio/master/rpm2cpio.py
>> 
>> I see it includes the xz compression which MIGHT be the issue with the 
>> vivaldi rpm.
>> .....
>> 
>> While looking into this, I discovered that the 7zip program can read rpm 
>> files!
>> Cool.
>> 
>> http://manutechie.blogspot.com/2013/08/extract-rpmjartariso-in-windows-7.html 
>> 
>> /tmp> 7z l vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>> 
>> 7-Zip [64] 9.20  Copyright (c) 1999-2010 Igor Pavlov  2010-11-18
>> p7zip Version 9.20 (locale=en_US.UTF-8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,4 CPUs)
>> 
>> Listing archive: vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>> 
>> -- 
>> Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>> Type = Rpm
>> ----
>> Size = 45061100
>> -- 
>> Path = vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio.lzma
>> Type = xz
>> Method = LZMA2:26 SHA256
>>
>>    Date      Time    Attr         Size   Compressed  Name
>> ------------------- ----- ------------ ------------ 
>> ------------------------
>>                     .....    170081620     45061100 
>> vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.cpio
>> ------------------- ----- ------------ ------------ 
>> ------------------------
>>                              170081620     45061100  1 files, 0 folders
>> 
>> And sure enough, it's an xz file with LZMA and an SHA256 signature.
>> 
>> Reading the python and perl and the shell (from
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18787375/how-do-i-extract-the-contents-of-an-rpm
>> )  are enlightening about the contents of the RPM file.
>> 
>> 
>> Fun times... :-)
>> Ger
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> I run compiled Linux From Scratch so use neither an RPM nor DEB 
>>> distribution package manager.  I got rpm2cpio.prl for Perl years ago and 
>>> use it only for OpenOffice RPM files.  I just tried it on an OpenOffice 
>>> language pack RPM file successfully.
>>> 
>>> I saw no MD5 values on their site but my md5sum matches yours. If you can 
>>> unpack it using rpm2cpio I'll chalk it up to a mystery as I can process 
>>> the DEB file with ar.
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> On 04/09/2016 09:44 AM, gerry wrote:
>>>> Where did you get rpm2cpio from if you don't use a distribution with an 
>>>> rpm extractor? (rpm2cpio is an rpm extractor)
>>>> What tool did you use to download the rpm file? (is it corrupted?)
>>>> 
>>>> /tmp/v> rpm2cpio ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm| cpio -id
>>>> 332191 blocks
>>>> /tmp/v> dpkg -l rpm2cpio
>>>> [snip]
>>>> ii  rpm2cpio                   4.12.0.1+dfsg1-3bu amd64              tool 
>>>> to convert RPM package to CPIO archive
>>>> 
>>>> /tmp/v> md5sum ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>>>> 848368665107cb1670c15639843ad58e 
>>>> ../vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Nope; no problem here extracting it.
>>>> 
>>>> HTH,
>>>> Ger
>>>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm receive "Error: header not recognized" and "cpio: premature end of 
>>>>> archive" when attempting to process the following using rpm2cpio:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://download.vivaldi.com/stable/vivaldi-stable-1.0.435.42-1.x86_64.rpm 
>>>>> I commonly use rpm2cpio to process rpm files and have had the issue with 
>>>>> all Vivaldi's betas.  I see nothing about such a problem on their site 
>>>>> so assume it's unique to rpm2cpio.  I don't use a distribution with an 
>>>>> rpm extractor.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can others successfully process the file?
>>>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> .
>> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From theixian at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 13 16:41:52 2016
From: theixian at hotmail.com (Loren Burlingame)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:41:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell T320/620 Rack to Tower conversion
Message-ID: <SNT153-W23C986987548921B23D87DC1960@phx.gbl>







Kind of an odd request but I am looking to convert a Dell T320 (T620 is the same form factor so should also work) from a rack mount kit to a tower.

Dell does not have specific parts for this (I have called them several times to make sure I didn't just get an inexperienced rep) and the furthest I have come is to get the feet for the server.

The only thing left is to get the (purely cosmetic) top cover for the chassis.

If anyone has done the opposite conversion (Tower to Rack) on one of these servers, you will have this part laying around.

Here are some pictures:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96897&authkey=!AOlvi1DrnzNi4fk&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96898&authkey=!ALYeBmUrme1IJCU&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96899&authkey=!AJlfYhiGBgJrEhQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg


Let me know if you are able to help me get this part. I will, of course, pay you for it :)

Thanks

-- Loren Burlingame


 		 	   		  
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From noahlorenzen at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 16:44:34 2016
From: noahlorenzen at gmail.com (NoahLorenzen .)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:44:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Apr 13 16:46:52 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:46:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604131646370.8244@cockerel.yaron.org>

Very likely whenever you set one up! So, what works for you?

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016, NoahLorenzen . wrote:

> 
> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
> 
> 
>

From kc0iog at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 22:50:41 2016
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 22:50:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell T320/620 Rack to Tower conversion
In-Reply-To: <SNT153-W23C986987548921B23D87DC1960@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT153-W23C986987548921B23D87DC1960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=3mEkXcd+SnwemPN3YUTZaHEMOSKoXXj5bF_67WDLEeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Loren Burlingame <theixian at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Kind of an odd request but I am looking to convert a Dell T320 (T620 is the
> same form factor so should also work) from a rack mount kit to a tower.

Not an odd request, actually.  What's odd is how difficult this is.
Back in the PE700/800 days, even up the PE2900 days, Dell used to sell
the conversion kits.  I've converted a few PE2800 and PE2900 boxes.

What I found is that it is supported on the T320:
http://www.dell.com/support/manuals/us/en/19/poweredge-t320/T320OwnersManual-v3/Preparing-A-System-For-Conversion-From-Tower-Mode-To-Rack-Mode?guid=GUID-435D60E9-191B-44FE-B63E-A455A02E93C3&lang=en-us

But for some reason Dell doesn't actually SELL the kits.  You have to
order them third party.
http://disctech.com/Dell-332-0331-PowerEdge-T420-Tower-to-Rack-Conversion-Kit

Alternately, you could install a rack shelf, remove the feet, and lay
it sideways.

Brian


>
> Dell does not have specific parts for this (I have called them several times
> to make sure I didn't just get an inexperienced rep) and the furthest I have
> come is to get the feet for the server.
>
> The only thing left is to get the (purely cosmetic) top cover for the
> chassis.
>
> If anyone has done the opposite conversion (Tower to Rack) on one of these
> servers, you will have this part laying around.
>
> Here are some pictures:
>
> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96897&authkey=!AOlvi1DrnzNi4fk&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96898&authkey=!ALYeBmUrme1IJCU&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96899&authkey=!AJlfYhiGBgJrEhQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
>
>
> Let me know if you are able to help me get this part. I will, of course, pay
> you for it :)
>
> Thanks
>
> -- Loren Burlingame
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 23:45:27 2016
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:45:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell T320/620 Rack to Tower conversion
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoP=3mEkXcd+SnwemPN3YUTZaHEMOSKoXXj5bF_67WDLEeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT153-W23C986987548921B23D87DC1960@phx.gbl>
 <CAB3QoP=3mEkXcd+SnwemPN3YUTZaHEMOSKoXXj5bF_67WDLEeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570F2067.6020809@gmail.com>

On 4/13/2016 10:50 PM, Brian Wall wrote:
>
> Alternately, you could install a rack shelf, remove the feet, and lay
> it sideways.
>

I second this motion.  Why spend the money for the kit.  Shelves are 
cheap.  I have done this many many times, but with HP Proliant servers.




From cncole at earthlink.net  Thu Apr 14 01:03:15 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 01:03:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F1005AC0FB14C04811981D2B89B033B@D830B>

Haven't had TCLUG meetings for years..


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of NoahLorenzen .
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 4:45 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting



I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?

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From chrome at real-time.com  Thu Apr 14 06:52:53 2016
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:52:53 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <5F1005AC0FB14C04811981D2B89B033B@D830B>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5F1005AC0FB14C04811981D2B89B033B@D830B>
Message-ID: <20160414115253.GA18421@real-time.com>

On 04/14 01:03 , Chuck Cole wrote:
> Haven't had TCLUG meetings for years..

Having meetings would involve going out into meatspace, and no one here has
done that for years. 

(j/k)

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 07:13:49 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:13:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570F897D.8020004@gmail.com>


Welcome.  I admire your wanting a meeting.  I'm afraid meetings have 
become rather rare.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 04/13/2016 04:44 PM, NoahLorenzen . wrote:
>
> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 07:15:54 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:15:54 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <570F897D.8020004@gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F897D.8020004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFPuoMOEocCzNYYo+W7pLkZU+1FKS4YuGDpUYDtQ_teWw@mail.gmail.com>

I really miss the meetings they were a lot of fun. I moved out of state
otherwise I would set one up and go. I always liked the meetings where we
went and they had beer there. I'd be willing to bet if you took the time to
set one up that people would show up. If you're brave you can schedule the
Twin Cities system administrator meeting at the same time then you can
listen to a guy who loves Microsoft
On Apr 14, 2016 7:13 AM, <rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Welcome.  I admire your wanting a meeting.  I'm afraid meetings have
> become rather rare.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 04/13/2016 04:44 PM, NoahLorenzen . wrote:
>
> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Apr 14 09:40:51 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 09:40:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <20160414115253.GA18421@real-time.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5F1005AC0FB14C04811981D2B89B033B@D830B>
 <20160414115253.GA18421@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604140940250.10803@cockerel.yaron.org>

Meatspace? I thought that place got shut down for health code violations.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote:

> On 04/14 01:03 , Chuck Cole wrote:
>> Haven't had TCLUG meetings for years..
>
> Having meetings would involve going out into meatspace, and no one here has
> done that for years.
>
> (j/k)
>
>

From clark.andreasen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 10:08:21 2016
From: clark.andreasen at gmail.com (Clark Andreasen)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:08:21 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604140940250.10803@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5F1005AC0FB14C04811981D2B89B033B@D830B>
 <20160414115253.GA18421@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604140940250.10803@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAPEPWRw2yLRHsn1KXZ9v31j_o5g_BZyxxgMbyW022y7hu1LnVw@mail.gmail.com>

Also relatively new, but I'd be willing to help out with a meeting, I can't
offer a space to meet however.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, 09:41 Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:

> Meatspace? I thought that place got shut down for health code violations.
>
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2016, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote:
>
> > On 04/14 01:03 , Chuck Cole wrote:
> >> Haven't had TCLUG meetings for years..
> >
> > Having meetings would involve going out into meatspace, and no one here
> has
> > done that for years.
> >
> > (j/k)
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Apr 14 09:47:57 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:47:57 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFPuoMOEocCzNYYo+W7pLkZU+1FKS4YuGDpUYDtQ_teWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <570F897D.8020004@gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFPuoMOEocCzNYYo+W7pLkZU+1FKS4YuGDpUYDtQ_teWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160414144757.GA8128@nobelware.com>

Perhaps we should decide on what the expectations we should have from a meeting,
which should include some craft beer drinking. There is knowledge to spread,
help to give, and interest to know what people are doing (I think).


Here are some topics to ponder:

1. software/distribution setup and management
- environment modules and why people should use them (host multiple versions
of software with no conflicts)
- hosting multiple kernels
- do you keep notes for everything like I do?

2. networking
- the power of SSH and reverse tunnels (it will change your life)
- pushing protocols through tunnels (e.g. VNC in your box behind firewalls or NATed and non-static addresses)
- IPv6 (I have never done anything with this)
-- IPtables and advanced routing with the Linux TCP stack (I am always interested)
- networking and virtualization (huge and interesting rabbit-hole)

3. hardware
- do you have hardware that gives you issues? do you have solutions?
- interfacing with strange devices

4. storage
- Linux MD RAID, mdadm and why everybody should be at least RAID1
- cryptsetup, LUKS, and keeping hardware theft from being an issue (being
paranoid is a good thing sometimes)
- RAID over networks (I really want to know more about this)
- extN/XFS/ZFS and why the choice of filesystem is sometimes life-or-death

5. virtualization
- I am still trying to properly virtualize a Macintosh/Hackintosh
- on demand server management in computing facilities and cloud style computing
of your own (I have a huge interest in this)

6. Programming with the system API and advanced topics
- who here uses select()/ioctl() and for what reason?
- Infiniband and high-performance computing / storage / LUSTRE
- RDMA over Infiniband for virtualization (is it possible?)
- process/memory affinity for process and threads (topic for HPC people like me)


You sure can spend endless hours searching with a search-engine and reading,
but nothing beats knowing your local expert and discussing things over a beer.
IN


From theixian at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 14 11:06:19 2016
From: theixian at hotmail.com (Loren Burlingame)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:06:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Dell T320/620 Rack to Tower conversion
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoP=3mEkXcd+SnwemPN3YUTZaHEMOSKoXXj5bF_67WDLEeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT153-W23C986987548921B23D87DC1960@phx.gbl>,
 <CAB3QoP=3mEkXcd+SnwemPN3YUTZaHEMOSKoXXj5bF_67WDLEeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT153-W586970AD8CBAE2ABB792F4C1970@phx.gbl>

The problem is that I want to go the other way: Rack to Tower.

It is no problem buying a conversion kit for Tower to Rack. But there is no assembly or kit for the opposite conversion (Rack to Tower).

I mean, all I really need is the top cover and this is purely a cosmetic thing. I just want it to match the other T320 tower we have.

Thanks for the feedback. I will continue my quest and harass some ebay sellers... :)


> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 22:50:41 -0500
> From: kc0iog at gmail.com
> To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Dell T320/620 Rack to Tower conversion
> 
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Loren Burlingame <theixian at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Kind of an odd request but I am looking to convert a Dell T320 (T620 is the
> > same form factor so should also work) from a rack mount kit to a tower.
> 
> Not an odd request, actually.  What's odd is how difficult this is.
> Back in the PE700/800 days, even up the PE2900 days, Dell used to sell
> the conversion kits.  I've converted a few PE2800 and PE2900 boxes.
> 
> What I found is that it is supported on the T320:
> http://www.dell.com/support/manuals/us/en/19/poweredge-t320/T320OwnersManual-v3/Preparing-A-System-For-Conversion-From-Tower-Mode-To-Rack-Mode?guid=GUID-435D60E9-191B-44FE-B63E-A455A02E93C3&lang=en-us
> 
> But for some reason Dell doesn't actually SELL the kits.  You have to
> order them third party.
> http://disctech.com/Dell-332-0331-PowerEdge-T420-Tower-to-Rack-Conversion-Kit
> 
> Alternately, you could install a rack shelf, remove the feet, and lay
> it sideways.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> >
> > Dell does not have specific parts for this (I have called them several times
> > to make sure I didn't just get an inexperienced rep) and the furthest I have
> > come is to get the feet for the server.
> >
> > The only thing left is to get the (purely cosmetic) top cover for the
> > chassis.
> >
> > If anyone has done the opposite conversion (Tower to Rack) on one of these
> > servers, you will have this part laying around.
> >
> > Here are some pictures:
> >
> > https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96897&authkey=!AOlvi1DrnzNi4fk&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
> > https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96898&authkey=!ALYeBmUrme1IJCU&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
> > https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5BF119911A2DD67!96899&authkey=!AJlfYhiGBgJrEhQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg
> >
> >
> > Let me know if you are able to help me get this part. I will, of course, pay
> > you for it :)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -- Loren Burlingame
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 		 	   		  
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 11:32:03 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:32:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
Message-ID: <CABWFOjuTvkntZXHFSw7k9oxfg-6_Rirmz-3W9wUv4Y93PH67bg@mail.gmail.com>

There's a conference room in the Roseville office building
I'm in that I can use for meetings.  I've posted in the past
trying to drum up support for C++ and/or FreeBSD meetings.
That's been a while ago so maybe there would be more
interest now.

I'm also open to meeting at some restaurants and
bars, depending on what they are like.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Apr 14 12:52:24 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:52:24 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjuTvkntZXHFSw7k9oxfg-6_Rirmz-3W9wUv4Y93PH67bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjuTvkntZXHFSw7k9oxfg-6_Rirmz-3W9wUv4Y93PH67bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160414175224.GA8386@nobelware.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 11:32:03AM -0500, Brian Wood wrote:
> 
> There's a conference room in the Roseville office building
> I'm in that I can use for meetings.  I've posted in the past
> trying to drum up support for C++ and/or FreeBSD meetings.
> That's been a while ago so maybe there would be more
> interest now.
 
Somebody at work put a study group together so that we can study Design
Patterns in the context of OO programing (C++ included). Really successful
effort so far.. So, yes, some programming and software engineering is not
out of the question for those who are interested.

IN


From clark.andreasen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 13:40:20 2016
From: clark.andreasen at gmail.com (Clark Andreasen)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 18:40:20 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <20160414175224.GA8386@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjuTvkntZXHFSw7k9oxfg-6_Rirmz-3W9wUv4Y93PH67bg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160414175224.GA8386@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPEPWRxb1ha-1H-z2V_F705wVEH7BXs9fTDBDmKVBvMzGK4HoQ@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds from this like we do have at the least a core group that would
attend a meetup, and a space to meet, and Iznogoud has some good ideas for
topics, why don't we go for it? If we set a date enough in advance there
ought to be enough people for a fairly small meetup, no?

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 12:52 PM Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 11:32:03AM -0500, Brian Wood wrote:
> >
> > There's a conference room in the Roseville office building
> > I'm in that I can use for meetings.  I've posted in the past
> > trying to drum up support for C++ and/or FreeBSD meetings.
> > That's been a while ago so maybe there would be more
> > interest now.
>
> Somebody at work put a study group together so that we can study Design
> Patterns in the context of OO programing (C++ included). Really successful
> effort so far.. So, yes, some programming and software engineering is not
> out of the question for those who are interested.
>
> IN
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sethmiller.sm at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 15:11:38 2016
From: sethmiller.sm at gmail.com (Seth Miller)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:11:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>

Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users group in the Twin
Cities that meets regularly.

http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/

Seth
On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ." <noahlorenzen at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 06:11:25 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 06:11:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to thank the new guy for getting us together again. a simple
question can have great results.
On Apr 14, 2016 3:11 PM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users group in the Twin
> Cities that meets regularly.
>
> http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/
>
> Seth
> On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ." <noahlorenzen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Apr 15 09:59:17 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:59:17 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>

Second. And although not new to Linux (1993 kernel 1.1), I am back on the
list and I feel like a newbie.


I think that, at the very least, there should be some interaction with that
group, which seems new and enthusiastic and meets really regularly. I am
going to attend a meetu with them if anyone wants to join. Let me know.

Also, I am game for meeting at Roseville, so let's get a date/time and some
topics. I'd go for software management with modules and storage with RAID
and cryptsetup, which I think are essential.

For an initial meeting, I can certainly make time.
IN


On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 06:11:25AM -0500, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> 
> I would like to thank the new guy for getting us together again. a simple
> question can have great results.
> On Apr 14, 2016 3:11 PM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users group in the Twin
> > Cities that meets regularly.
> >
> > http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/
> >
> > Seth
> > On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ." <noahlorenzen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> >

> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From clark.andreasen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 10:05:42 2016
From: clark.andreasen at gmail.com (Clark Andreasen)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 15:05:42 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPEPWRwUfs-byTNMH5WBHACRwThMo=qDgSUAcbuN370jkfCkBA@mail.gmail.com>

I would probably go to a penguins meetup, to check it out if nothing else.
When we're you going to go?

And for our meeting, do we have a preferred day? Saturday might be the most
universally open day but penguins is that day, along with all kinds of
other events I'm sure. Are there specific days that room is available?

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, 09:59 Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Second. And although not new to Linux (1993 kernel 1.1), I am back on the
> list and I feel like a newbie.
>
>
> I think that, at the very least, there should be some interaction with that
> group, which seems new and enthusiastic and meets really regularly. I am
> going to attend a meetu with them if anyone wants to join. Let me know.
>
> Also, I am game for meeting at Roseville, so let's get a date/time and some
> topics. I'd go for software management with modules and storage with RAID
> and cryptsetup, which I think are essential.
>
> For an initial meeting, I can certainly make time.
> IN
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 06:11:25AM -0500, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> >
> > I would like to thank the new guy for getting us together again. a simple
> > question can have great results.
> > On Apr 14, 2016 3:11 PM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users group in the Twin
> > > Cities that meets regularly.
> > >
> > > http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/
> > >
> > > Seth
> > > On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ." <noahlorenzen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > >
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From noahlorenzen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 11:52:32 2016
From: noahlorenzen at gmail.com (NoahLorenzen .)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 11:52:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPEPWRwUfs-byTNMH5WBHACRwThMo=qDgSUAcbuN370jkfCkBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>
 <CAPEPWRwUfs-byTNMH5WBHACRwThMo=qDgSUAcbuN370jkfCkBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPaCQ8VB8P48NAOFKJkPP+LrsHHK7XwxQ97rQFn_MQhtJ_aoUA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks guys for the replies. For right now I will be going to penguins
unbound until something can get setup for tclug. Weekends work great for me.
On Apr 15, 2016 10:06 AM, "Clark Andreasen" <clark.andreasen at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I would probably go to a penguins meetup, to check it out if nothing else.
> When we're you going to go?
>
> And for our meeting, do we have a preferred day? Saturday might be the
> most universally open day but penguins is that day, along with all kinds of
> other events I'm sure. Are there specific days that room is available?
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, 09:59 Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>
>> Second. And although not new to Linux (1993 kernel 1.1), I am back on the
>> list and I feel like a newbie.
>>
>>
>> I think that, at the very least, there should be some interaction with
>> that
>> group, which seems new and enthusiastic and meets really regularly. I am
>> going to attend a meetu with them if anyone wants to join. Let me know.
>>
>> Also, I am game for meeting at Roseville, so let's get a date/time and
>> some
>> topics. I'd go for software management with modules and storage with RAID
>> and cryptsetup, which I think are essential.
>>
>> For an initial meeting, I can certainly make time.
>> IN
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 06:11:25AM -0500, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>> >
>> > I would like to thank the new guy for getting us together again. a
>> simple
>> > question can have great results.
>> > On Apr 14, 2016 3:11 PM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users group in the Twin
>> > > Cities that meets regularly.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/
>> > >
>> > > Seth
>> > > On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ." <noahlorenzen at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sethmiller.sm at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 13:38:48 2016
From: sethmiller.sm at gmail.com (Seth Miller)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 13:38:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAPaCQ8VB8P48NAOFKJkPP+LrsHHK7XwxQ97rQFn_MQhtJ_aoUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>
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 <CAPaCQ8VB8P48NAOFKJkPP+LrsHHK7XwxQ97rQFn_MQhtJ_aoUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEueRAVame6heaEfmOzWADX+Rg7ZDx3XieqJAF67N3Gtg6bzEw@mail.gmail.com>

I am not a big fan of Saturday meetups. Both of my kids' organized
activities dominate every Saturday and most of Sunday. I would much rather
meet during the week, even if it is just a couple of hours over lunch.

Seth

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, NoahLorenzen . <noahlorenzen at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks guys for the replies. For right now I will be going to penguins
> unbound until something can get setup for tclug. Weekends work great for me.
> On Apr 15, 2016 10:06 AM, "Clark Andreasen" <clark.andreasen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I would probably go to a penguins meetup, to check it out if nothing
>> else. When we're you going to go?
>>
>> And for our meeting, do we have a preferred day? Saturday might be the
>> most universally open day but penguins is that day, along with all kinds of
>> other events I'm sure. Are there specific days that room is available?
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, 09:59 Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Second. And although not new to Linux (1993 kernel 1.1), I am back on the
>>> list and I feel like a newbie.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that, at the very least, there should be some interaction with
>>> that
>>> group, which seems new and enthusiastic and meets really regularly. I am
>>> going to attend a meetu with them if anyone wants to join. Let me know.
>>>
>>> Also, I am game for meeting at Roseville, so let's get a date/time and
>>> some
>>> topics. I'd go for software management with modules and storage with RAID
>>> and cryptsetup, which I think are essential.
>>>
>>> For an initial meeting, I can certainly make time.
>>> IN
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 06:11:25AM -0500, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I would like to thank the new guy for getting us together again. a
>>> simple
>>> > question can have great results.
>>> > On Apr 14, 2016 3:11 PM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users group in the Twin
>>> > > Cities that meets regularly.
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/
>>> > >
>>> > > Seth
>>> > > On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ." <noahlorenzen at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
>>> > >>
>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From kurtis at riseup.net  Fri Apr 15 13:57:52 2016
From: kurtis at riseup.net (Kurtis Hanna)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:57:52 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAEueRAVame6heaEfmOzWADX+Rg7ZDx3XieqJAF67N3Gtg6bzEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>
 <CAPEPWRwUfs-byTNMH5WBHACRwThMo=qDgSUAcbuN370jkfCkBA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8VB8P48NAOFKJkPP+LrsHHK7XwxQ97rQFn_MQhtJ_aoUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAVame6heaEfmOzWADX+Rg7ZDx3XieqJAF67N3Gtg6bzEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571139B0.40207@riseup.net>

Hi list,

I'm Kurtis Hanna and I'm going to be presenting on the GNU/Linux distro
called Tails tomorrow morning at Penguins Unbound. I hope to see some of
you there. I'm also co-founder of a group called Crypto Party Minnesota.
Check us out: CryptoPartyMN.com

We meet every other Tuesday at the Wedge Table in South Minneapolis.

I'm excited to hear that tclug is considering putting together an in
person meeting. I'll definitely attend if I have time. Some of my free
software interests are Libreboot.org Replicant.us and headless Debain
webservers. I help maintain sensible.mn which is my non-profit.

In Solidarity,
Kurtis

Seth Miller:
> I am not a big fan of Saturday meetups. Both of my kids' organized
> activities dominate every Saturday and most of Sunday. I would much rather
> meet during the week, even if it is just a couple of hours over lunch.
> 
> Seth
> 
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, NoahLorenzen . <noahlorenzen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks guys for the replies. For right now I will be going to penguins
>> unbound until something can get setup for tclug. Weekends work great for me.
>> On Apr 15, 2016 10:06 AM, "Clark Andreasen" <clark.andreasen at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would probably go to a penguins meetup, to check it out if nothing
>>> else. When we're you going to go?
>>>
>>> And for our meeting, do we have a preferred day? Saturday might be the
>>> most universally open day but penguins is that day, along with all kinds of
>>> other events I'm sure. Are there specific days that room is available?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, 09:59 Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Second. And although not new to Linux (1993 kernel 1.1), I am back on the
>>>> list and I feel like a newbie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think that, at the very least, there should be some interaction with
>>>> that
>>>> group, which seems new and enthusiastic and meets really regularly. I am
>>>> going to attend a meetu with them if anyone wants to join. Let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I am game for meeting at Roseville, so let's get a date/time and
>>>> some
>>>> topics. I'd go for software management with modules and storage with RAID
>>>> and cryptsetup, which I think are essential.
>>>>
>>>> For an initial meeting, I can certainly make time.
>>>> IN
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 06:11:25AM -0500, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to thank the new guy for getting us together again. a
>>>> simple
>>>>> question can have great results.
>>>>> On Apr 14, 2016 3:11 PM, "Seth Miller" <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users group in the Twin
>>>>>> Cities that meets regularly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seth
>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ." <noahlorenzen at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am new here and I was wondering when the next meeting will be?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

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From lkateley at kateley.com  Fri Apr 15 14:11:41 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 14:11:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <CAEueRAVame6heaEfmOzWADX+Rg7ZDx3XieqJAF67N3Gtg6bzEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>
 <CAPEPWRwUfs-byTNMH5WBHACRwThMo=qDgSUAcbuN370jkfCkBA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8VB8P48NAOFKJkPP+LrsHHK7XwxQ97rQFn_MQhtJ_aoUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAVame6heaEfmOzWADX+Rg7ZDx3XieqJAF67N3Gtg6bzEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57113CED.9020002@kateley.com>

+1

On 4/15/16 1:38 PM, Seth Miller wrote:
> I am not a big fan of Saturday meetups. Both of my kids' organized 
> activities dominate every Saturday and most of Sunday. I would much 
> rather meet during the week, even if it is just a couple of hours over 
> lunch.
>
> Seth
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, NoahLorenzen . 
> <noahlorenzen at gmail.com <mailto:noahlorenzen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks guys for the replies. For right now I will be going to
>     penguins unbound until something can get setup for tclug. Weekends
>     work great for me.
>
>     On Apr 15, 2016 10:06 AM, "Clark Andreasen"
>     <clark.andreasen at gmail.com <mailto:clark.andreasen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         I would probably go to a penguins meetup, to check it out if
>         nothing else. When we're you going to go?
>
>         And for our meeting, do we have a preferred day? Saturday
>         might be the most universally open day but penguins is that
>         day, along with all kinds of other events I'm sure. Are there
>         specific days that room is available?
>
>
>         On Fri, Apr 15, 2016, 09:59 Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com
>         <mailto:iznogoud at nobelware.com>> wrote:
>
>             Second. And although not new to Linux (1993 kernel 1.1), I
>             am back on the
>             list and I feel like a newbie.
>
>
>             I think that, at the very least, there should be some
>             interaction with that
>             group, which seems new and enthusiastic and meets really
>             regularly. I am
>             going to attend a meetu with them if anyone wants to join.
>             Let me know.
>
>             Also, I am game for meeting at Roseville, so let's get a
>             date/time and some
>             topics. I'd go for software management with modules and
>             storage with RAID
>             and cryptsetup, which I think are essential.
>
>             For an initial meeting, I can certainly make time.
>             IN
>
>
>             On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 06:11:25AM -0500, Sandwhich Eyes
>             wrote:
>             >
>             > I would like to thank the new guy for getting us
>             together again. a simple
>             > question can have great results.
>             > On Apr 14, 2016 3:11 PM, "Seth Miller"
>             <sethmiller.sm at gmail.com <mailto:sethmiller.sm at gmail.com>>
>             wrote:
>             >
>             > > Although unaffiliated, there is another Linux users
>             group in the Twin
>             > > Cities that meets regularly.
>             > >
>             > > http://www.meetup.com/PenguinsUnbound/
>             > >
>             > > Seth
>             > > On Apr 13, 2016 2:44 PM, "NoahLorenzen ."
>             <noahlorenzen at gmail.com <mailto:noahlorenzen at gmail.com>>
>             wrote:
>             > >
>             > >> I am new here and I was wondering when the next
>             meeting will be?
>             > >>
>             > >> _______________________________________________
>             > >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             > >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             > >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>             > >>
>             > >>
>             > > _______________________________________________
>             > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>             > >
>             > >
>
>             > _______________________________________________
>             > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Apr 15 21:46:12 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 02:46:12 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <571139B0.40207@riseup.net>
References: <CAPaCQ8UBQnK8ibuG7zXUcudc9za+_tpd6fCro+F8HATPb4ygmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8Wqwv9v4L0YDVvzUwUi4TZUQomrGYw-o_oMZSOHQWrMLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAWSfQ5Ng7M61x==nSFakX=6qP7AuQ30eicYdyO7e-f-uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFp-bh+suG6dH6fFyFeKPJRAUqmDijHcbuNLPcVCTc8UA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160415145917.GA9560@nobelware.com>
 <CAPEPWRwUfs-byTNMH5WBHACRwThMo=qDgSUAcbuN370jkfCkBA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPaCQ8VB8P48NAOFKJkPP+LrsHHK7XwxQ97rQFn_MQhtJ_aoUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEueRAVame6heaEfmOzWADX+Rg7ZDx3XieqJAF67N3Gtg6bzEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <571139B0.40207@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160416024612.GA10644@nobelware.com>

I will not be going tomorrow because I am ravaging the Fetus early for Record
Store Day, and we will cruise through every record store in town (and St Paul).
I would have loved to join the penguins tomorrow.

As for our meeting, I would shoot for a mid-week (Thursday and Wednesdays
work well) evening (after 7pm). A couple of hours is probably more than enough
of meet time. Maybe we will all be penguins in the end.


Kurtis, glad to hear you and the locals are into cryptography. I am authoring
a password manager (more like a data cipher) for mobile devices, starting
with iphone. I want to share the source, so that everybody who uses it knows
what it does and how it works, so they can trust it. We live in a world with
too many passwords and credentials, it is overwhelming.

IN


From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 12:36:52 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 12:36:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Next meeting
Message-ID: <CABWFOjuD58XyTjt1mUp_Di6aGVx9B=_zTeHnZgnd2G+-NgqZGg@mail.gmail.com>

Iznogoud writes:

> Somebody at work put a study group together so that we can study Design
> Patterns in the context of OO programing (C++ included). Really successful
> effort so far.. So, yes, some programming and software engineering is not
> out of the question for those who are interested.

I don't think that's what I'm looking for.  I'm interested in something
like a C++ user group.

In the last 10 years or so Functional Programming has had
more of an influence on C++ than Object Oriented Programming.
C++ supports Object Oriented Programming, but there's little of
that used in the C++ standard library.

--
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - "But realize this, that in the last days
difficult times will come."  2nd Timothy 3:1

http://webEbenezer.net

But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
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From cdf123 at cdf123.net  Tue Apr 19 07:54:32 2016
From: cdf123 at cdf123.net (Chris Frederick)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:54:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
Message-ID: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>

Anyone have any recommendations for training courses for beginners?

Have a colleague of mine asking about a training course for Linux.  They aren't as technical as I am, and they would prefer a classroom setting. 
  I've recommended to have them just jump in and get their feet wet, but they are pretty adamant that they want a training classroom.  Red Hat 
focus would be a plus.

I've googled a bit, but all I seem to find are Admin courses, and most require some familiarity or are cert based.  Not really sure if that's a 
good fit.  Any advice would be great.

Thanks.

From jjensen at apache.org  Tue Apr 19 08:12:05 2016
From: jjensen at apache.org (Jeff Jensen)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:12:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Intertech has lots of tech classes and has a Linux intro class:
http://intertech.com/Training/Linux/System_Admin/System_Admin/Linux_Fundamentals

Note that I am an employee of Intertech so am naturally biased :-).
I noted the next public class isn't listed yet, so if the syllabus is of
interest, then inquire for approximately when the next public class is.
Some of the less-common classes only schedule when enough interest occurs.


On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, Chris Frederick <cdf123 at cdf123.net> wrote:

> Anyone have any recommendations for training courses for beginners?
>
> Have a colleague of mine asking about a training course for Linux.  They
> aren't as technical as I am, and they would prefer a classroom setting.
> I've recommended to have them just jump in and get their feet wet, but they
> are pretty adamant that they want a training classroom.  Red Hat focus
> would be a plus.
>
> I've googled a bit, but all I seem to find are Admin courses, and most
> require some familiarity or are cert based.  Not really sure if that's a
> good fit.  Any advice would be great.
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:43:19 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:43:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
 <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>

Linux by is great.  Edx is an online course that is free I used.  The bag
scripting part have me almost no help.  Linuxcbt helped with that
On Apr 19, 2016 8:19 AM, "Jeff Jensen" <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:

> Intertech has lots of tech classes and has a Linux intro class:
> http://intertech.com/Training/Linux/System_Admin/System_Admin/Linux_Fundamentals
>
> Note that I am an employee of Intertech so am naturally biased :-).
> I noted the next public class isn't listed yet, so if the syllabus is of
> interest, then inquire for approximately when the next public class is.
> Some of the less-common classes only schedule when enough interest occurs.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, Chris Frederick <cdf123 at cdf123.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone have any recommendations for training courses for beginners?
>>
>> Have a colleague of mine asking about a training course for Linux.  They
>> aren't as technical as I am, and they would prefer a classroom setting.
>> I've recommended to have them just jump in and get their feet wet, but they
>> are pretty adamant that they want a training classroom.  Red Hat focus
>> would be a plus.
>>
>> I've googled a bit, but all I seem to find are Admin courses, and most
>> require some familiarity or are cert based.  Not really sure if that's a
>> good fit.  Any advice would be great.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 08:44:07 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:44:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
 <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFU=1OvqFCbLKXHCzob2hP-dC04_ySU0ES1iGu92vjPQg@mail.gmail.com>

Linuxcbt not Linux by.  Darn phone
On Apr 19, 2016 8:43 AM, "Sandwhich Eyes" <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Linux by is great.  Edx is an online course that is free I used.  The bag
> scripting part have me almost no help.  Linuxcbt helped with that
> On Apr 19, 2016 8:19 AM, "Jeff Jensen" <jjensen at apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Intertech has lots of tech classes and has a Linux intro class:
>> http://intertech.com/Training/Linux/System_Admin/System_Admin/Linux_Fundamentals
>>
>> Note that I am an employee of Intertech so am naturally biased :-).
>> I noted the next public class isn't listed yet, so if the syllabus is of
>> interest, then inquire for approximately when the next public class is.
>> Some of the less-common classes only schedule when enough interest occurs.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, Chris Frederick <cdf123 at cdf123.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone have any recommendations for training courses for beginners?
>>>
>>> Have a colleague of mine asking about a training course for Linux.  They
>>> aren't as technical as I am, and they would prefer a classroom setting.
>>> I've recommended to have them just jump in and get their feet wet, but they
>>> are pretty adamant that they want a training classroom.  Red Hat focus
>>> would be a plus.
>>>
>>> I've googled a bit, but all I seem to find are Admin courses, and most
>>> require some familiarity or are cert based.  Not really sure if that's a
>>> good fit.  Any advice would be great.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Tue Apr 19 09:45:35 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 09:45:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
 <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5716448F.2010405@kateley.com>

I am actually just in the process of adding Ubuntu to my class lineup, i 
focus on what's needed to run zfs. kateleyco.com

linda k

On 4/19/16 8:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
> Linux by is great.  Edx is an online course that is free I used.  The 
> bag scripting part have me almost no help. Linuxcbt helped with that
>
> On Apr 19, 2016 8:19 AM, "Jeff Jensen" <jjensen at apache.org 
> <mailto:jjensen at apache.org>> wrote:
>
>     Intertech has lots of tech classes and has a Linux intro class:
>     http://intertech.com/Training/Linux/System_Admin/System_Admin/Linux_Fundamentals
>
>     Note that I am an employee of Intertech so am naturally biased :-).
>     I noted the next public class isn't listed yet, so if the syllabus
>     is of interest, then inquire for approximately when the next
>     public class is.  Some of the less-common classes only schedule
>     when enough interest occurs.
>
>
>     On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, Chris Frederick
>     <cdf123 at cdf123.net <mailto:cdf123 at cdf123.net>> wrote:
>
>         Anyone have any recommendations for training courses for
>         beginners?
>
>         Have a colleague of mine asking about a training course for
>         Linux.  They aren't as technical as I am, and they would
>         prefer a classroom setting.  I've recommended to have them
>         just jump in and get their feet wet, but they are pretty
>         adamant that they want a training classroom. Red Hat focus
>         would be a plus.
>
>         I've googled a bit, but all I seem to find are Admin courses,
>         and most require some familiarity or are cert based.  Not
>         really sure if that's a good fit.  Any advice would be great.
>
>         Thanks.
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Apr 19 10:16:48 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 15:16:48 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <5716448F.2010405@kateley.com>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
 <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716448F.2010405@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <20160419151648.GA32397@nobelware.com>

Virtual company focused on ZFS in the 612 !?!?! I love my town!
IN

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 09:45:35AM -0500, Linda Kateley wrote:
> 
> I am actually just in the process of adding Ubuntu to my class lineup, i 
> focus on what's needed to run zfs. kateleyco.com
> 
> linda k
> 

From ykuksenko at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 11:08:55 2016
From: ykuksenko at gmail.com (Yevgeniy Kuksenko)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 16:08:55 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <20160419151648.GA32397@nobelware.com>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
 <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716448F.2010405@kateley.com> <20160419151648.GA32397@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CABjn7_JnOMw32PDEgEmK8i7LADT1Tox8J9b8e5NHEwewEL5-2A@mail.gmail.com>

Linux academy is a decent site for this. They have instructor help as well.
Though I am not sure what the costs are for that.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 10:17 Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Virtual company focused on ZFS in the 612 !?!?! I love my town!
> IN
>
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 09:45:35AM -0500, Linda Kateley wrote:
> >
> > I am actually just in the process of adding Ubuntu to my class lineup, i
> > focus on what's needed to run zfs. kateleyco.com
> >
> > linda k
> >
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From gsker at skerbitz.org  Tue Apr 19 12:17:02 2016
From: gsker at skerbitz.org (gerry)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:17:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <CABjn7_JnOMw32PDEgEmK8i7LADT1Tox8J9b8e5NHEwewEL5-2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
 <CAKumxBzX7gyyby4tZjLR093m8mO59y5VdHhfffeVzQ8hVZfQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF+rS2mPFLvPBJk-eYyUj_fTJ9JwEo-yhWbQgVTiQe1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716448F.2010405@kateley.com> <20160419151648.GA32397@nobelware.com>
 <CABjn7_JnOMw32PDEgEmK8i7LADT1Tox8J9b8e5NHEwewEL5-2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1604191214170.3124@skerbitz.org>

I'm pretty sure the OP was looking for classroom training -- not online.

Gerry



--
gsker at skerbitz.org

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Yevgeniy Kuksenko wrote:

> 
> Linux academy is a decent site for this. They have instructor help as well. Though I am not sure what the costs
> are for that.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 10:17 Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>       Virtual company focused on ZFS in the 612 !?!?! I love my town!
>       IN
>
>       On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 09:45:35AM -0500, Linda Kateley wrote:
>       >
>       > I am actually just in the process of adding Ubuntu to my class lineup, i
>       > focus on what's needed to run zfs. kateleyco.com
>       >
>       > linda k
>       >
>       _______________________________________________
>       TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>       tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>       http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Apr 19 12:10:20 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 12:10:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
References: <57162A88.4020405@cdf123.net>
Message-ID: <5716667C.7020105@pinenet.com>

Probably all the suggestions given are good starter classes.

But I've been at this a long time (since using assembly language on 
punch cards) and I am more a beginner now than then. I never see 
anything on this board that looks like anything I'm interested in Linux, 
so just be careful some beginner class with a beginner teacher doesn't 
pigeon hole those eager to learn.

My first taste of linux I was suggested a choice of Red Hat and SuSE. I 
bought a boxed SuSE Pro 6.1, and the books were/are priceless to me. It 
would have been fun to have a classroom group. But peer pressure also 
can close more paths than create them. I've explored most SuSE distros 
and now enjoy opensuse 13.2.

Linux now has real time flavors for instrumentation. Linux runs on 
credit card size Raspberry Pi (for sale at Microsoft Store) to enormous 
server rooms. Of the dozens of programming languages opensuse can 
install, I still like Tcl/Tk. You can install the kernel sources and C 
language tools. You can also download the still improving Free Pascal 
Compiler and do some serious Linux programming with Unix oldies but 
goodies like "signals, message queues, semaphores." Free Pascal has a 
GUI IDE, but I can't figure those things out.

Several years ago some gurus on AVR-freaks criticized my Linux terminal 
advocacy. Then Arduino makes their great "Uno" board running on a linux 
USB modem driver. By the time I can read and learn a little about the 
ttyACMx driver, Intel now has an Arduino "Edison" board with a real time OS.

Linux is spawning computing like Minnesota mosquitoes in May.

Chris Frederick wrote:
> Anyone have any recommendations for training courses for beginners?
>
> Have a colleague of mine asking about a training course for Linux.  
> They aren't as technical as I am, and they would prefer a classroom 
> setting.  I've recommended to have them just jump in and get their 
> feet wet, but they are pretty adamant that they want a training 
> classroom.  Red Hat focus would be a plus.
>
> I've googled a bit, but all I seem to find are Admin courses, and most 
> require some familiarity or are cert based.  Not really sure if that's 
> a good fit.  Any advice would be great.
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Apr 19 19:16:59 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 00:16:59 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
Message-ID: <20160420001659.GA337@nobelware.com>

Rick,
You mean you do not real your email with Mutt? What's wrong with you!?!? I
would still be on Elm if it could do IMAP back in 2000+ when I switched. I
live on the terminal.

Nothing like a real-time OS. Microcontrollers are for mission-critical
components, like pace-makers, your car's ECU, etc. But everything else should
be boot-strapped out of a real-time OS, like Linux.

As for Linux programming, I recommend that one from O'Reilly... what is it...
Linux System Programming I think. Great resource for the experienced Linux
hacker.

I really do think that a class for unix is not a bad start. The UofM's MSI
(Minnesota Supercomputing Institute) has a class for introduction to Unix and
Linux. Most things are made simple but a good start. I tould be best if a
noobie had somebody to explain the philosophy behind the filessytem, user
permissions, essential components of the kernel (even at the highest level)
and a lot about essential utilities in /bin /usr/bin. The potential barrier
is high and time to learn is not everybody can afford; that is why Apple is
in business today.

In comparing Linux distros I saw this said about Slackware users: "Let's say
if you are having a problem, the slackware user is the most likely to solve it
for you." So that is a starting point for the advanced Linux user. Patrick
Volkerding still lives in MN and is likely on this list.
IN


From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Apr 19 20:25:48 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:25:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] training courses
In-Reply-To: <20160420001659.GA337@nobelware.com>
References: <20160420001659.GA337@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <5716DA9C.3010208@pinenet.com>

Thanks. I'm an old, old Biophysicist. And before the Supercomputer 
building there was a wooden army barracks building on the site called 
Temporary North Court Engineering. Prof. Otto Schmitt and his lovely 
wife ran the place as the "Biophysics Dept." He invented digital 
electronics copying nerve electronics, and had tons of refrigeration 
equipment cooling more tube computer gear, etc. that over-filled the 
building. When they were going to tear the building down for the 
supercomputer building they had a large front end loader bucket in 
Otto's second floor office window so he got the message.

I had worked night guard downtown St. Paul, NWBell and they said it 
might be a terrorist target. Didn't know what a terrorist was, but the 7 
floors of tangled wires and sparking switches would have been hard to 
replace. So we shifted gears and pushed fiber optic microcomputer 
networking from abandoned Lowertown, St. Paul. At a meeting of some 
wonderful people, I provided a printout of drawn electro-optic 
properties of protein liquid crystal structures. I was a beta tester for 
Microsoft QDraw.

I have a lot of stories like that. During those early days, I think 
Marks Dayton was Commissioner of Economic Development. Don't count on 
good guys from government.

So I don't know how to start-up beginners in Linux.

My efforts now are pointing out all the new CO2 in the air is making 
plants grow much faster. So the optical biophysics using solar energy to 
make biofuels and biochar is interesting to some. Instrumentation is 
again critical. Surprisingly, RS232 works better in newer linux kernels.

Iznogoud wrote:
> Rick,
> You mean you do not real your email with Mutt? What's wrong with you!?!? I
> would still be on Elm if it could do IMAP back in 2000+ when I switched. I
> live on the terminal.
>
> Nothing like a real-time OS. Microcontrollers are for mission-critical
> components, like pace-makers, your car's ECU, etc. But everything else should
> be boot-strapped out of a real-time OS, like Linux.
>
> As for Linux programming, I recommend that one from O'Reilly... what is it...
> Linux System Programming I think. Great resource for the experienced Linux
> hacker.
>
> I really do think that a class for unix is not a bad start. The UofM's MSI
> (Minnesota Supercomputing Institute) has a class for introduction to Unix and
> Linux. Most things are made simple but a good start. I tould be best if a
> noobie had somebody to explain the philosophy behind the filessytem, user
> permissions, essential components of the kernel (even at the highest level)
> and a lot about essential utilities in /bin /usr/bin. The potential barrier
> is high and time to learn is not everybody can afford; that is why Apple is
> in business today.
>
> In comparing Linux distros I saw this said about Slackware users: "Let's say
> if you are having a problem, the slackware user is the most likely to solve it
> for you." So that is a starting point for the advanced Linux user. Patrick
> Volkerding still lives in MN and is likely on this list.
> IN
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From cncole at earthlink.net  Sun Apr 24 17:09:14 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 17:09:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: Next Meeting: Mathematical Art by Computer Alone
	on April 30th
Message-ID: <15C06E7648704CE295EB952B7C4879FA@D830B>

 

 

Dr. John Shier will present a "Chalk Talk" and slides of his published work.
For examples, visit his website at:   <http://john-art.com/>
http://john-art.com/  .

Invited Guests:   Dr Bill Kamp  - math & software guru and Matt Bruzek  -
software guru with Canonical (Ubuntu, etc)  .

Attendance is open, but registration is needed.

The meeting is April 30th, from 9:30 to 12:45 at Intertech in Eagan (more
details in the link below). 

 

John is a PhD in Physics.  He was in IEEE 25 years, has published 15 papers
and has 13 patents.

He was in IC device development 30 years, with 20 in analog and mixed signal
technology where he became fascinated with randomness.  He taught physics at
Normandale Community College for 7 years after retiring. 

John and a partner have published much of this material before in journals
beginning in 2006.  This algorithm was discovered in 2010.

He will show a short movie of images made by his colleague, and bring framed
prints Shown at a County Fair so we get a visual orientation before he goes
into his techniques and algorithms in additional images.

To register or for more information, follow this link:
<https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/39392>
https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/39392  

Questions:  contact  <mailto:tc-computer at ieee.org> tc-computer at ieee.org.

 

Regards,

Bruce Hanson, Chair Twin Cities Computer Society

Chuck Cole,  Vice Chair Twin Cities Computer Society

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From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Apr 25 15:54:37 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:54:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
Message-ID: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>

I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the 
distribution version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 mobo). I'm 
able to use the tools and documentation, and have compiled and installed 
some variant of the default opensuse download. However, I didn't get it 
to run the simple standard PC. It seems the grub2 bootloader is another 
learning process.

I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo bootloader. 
But going through all the new configuration options and actual 
compilation literally takes days. From what I can understand, the 
"vanilla" linux kernel now supports technology I didn't know existed.

I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. Just 
wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the kernel down, 
and any tips??

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Apr 25 15:57:39 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:57:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>

Aren't al kernels nowadays pretty much 100% module-based? Which means you 
can't really get them to be simpler, as such?


On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:

> I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the distribution 
> version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 mobo). I'm able to use the 
> tools and documentation, and have compiled and installed some variant of the 
> default opensuse download. However, I didn't get it to run the simple 
> standard PC. It seems the grub2 bootloader is another learning process.
>
> I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo bootloader. But 
> going through all the new configuration options and actual compilation 
> literally takes days. From what I can understand, the "vanilla" linux kernel 
> now supports technology I didn't know existed.
>
> I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. Just 
> wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the kernel down, and 
> any tips??
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Apr 25 18:42:47 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:42:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>

Thanks for your reply.

Perhaps you are right. I really don't have one good answer, but am 
confused and interested in learning.

Many of the driver modules for things like SCSI and Sound cards I 
remember go way back to ISA bus cards. I doubt you could find many of 
these cards if you tried. Hundreds of them that don't seem to belong in 
the same kernel source as high performance systems. In my downloaded 
pre-compiled kernel the ancient driver modules are included and litter 
up both the configuration file and library directory. An ancient 
hardware platform deserves the ancient kernel.

I realize the PC desktop platform is obsolete to many users. And all the 
laptop features, etc., etc., are new to me. But I'm surprised by all the 
support for embedded, GPIO, and many things I've barely heard of. One of 
the pre-compiled driver modules (GPS) for serial port even used the 
carrier detect as a pulse clock.

I guess what I'm trying to do is a standard master/slave control system 
over a standard RS232 link, exploiting standard ATX power supplies on 
both ends.

I have an 84 year old farmer friend who likes Ubuntu on his laptops, 
mails pictures of his very old car rebuilding projects. He likes old 
cars because they're fixable. I would like to think I can still do 
things with a PC.

Clug wrote:
> Aren't al kernels nowadays pretty much 100% module-based? Which means 
> you can't really get them to be simpler, as such?
>
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the 
>> distribution version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 mobo). 
>> I'm able to use the tools and documentation, and have compiled and 
>> installed some variant of the default opensuse download. However, I 
>> didn't get it to run the simple standard PC. It seems the grub2 
>> bootloader is another learning process.
>>
>> I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo 
>> bootloader. But going through all the new configuration options and 
>> actual compilation literally takes days. From what I can understand, 
>> the "vanilla" linux kernel now supports technology I didn't know 
>> existed.
>>
>> I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. Just 
>> wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the kernel 
>> down, and any tips??
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Apr 25 20:06:05 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:06:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251959440.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>

The drivers you are talking about probably don't belong in every kernel - 
and kernels including them date back to about the same timeframe.

The Linux kernel has supported modules since the late '90s, and it's been 
practially seemelss for over a decade. Kernels that come with distribtions 
contain these drivers AS MODULES. They are NOT loaded into the kernel 
unless they are needed. Very few drivers are actally built into the kernel 
nowadays.

Type 'lsmod' in a terminal window, and see the long, ong list of modules 
that are loaded automatically. I just did that on one of my machines, and 
there are about 80. 80! None of them are built into the kenrel. They are 
loaded as needed.

Those precompiled modules are, again, separate. They may take up 
diskspace, but we're talking about a few hundred megabytes. That's not the 
kind of diskspace a modern system is even going to notice. It is 
absolutely not impacting memory or performance, either.


On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:

> Thanks for your reply.
>
> Perhaps you are right. I really don't have one good answer, but am confused 
> and interested in learning.
>
> Many of the driver modules for things like SCSI and Sound cards I remember go 
> way back to ISA bus cards. I doubt you could find many of these cards if you 
> tried. Hundreds of them that don't seem to belong in the same kernel source 
> as high performance systems. In my downloaded pre-compiled kernel the ancient 
> driver modules are included and litter up both the configuration file and 
> library directory. An ancient hardware platform deserves the ancient kernel.
>
> I realize the PC desktop platform is obsolete to many users. And all the 
> laptop features, etc., etc., are new to me. But I'm surprised by all the 
> support for embedded, GPIO, and many things I've barely heard of. One of the 
> pre-compiled driver modules (GPS) for serial port even used the carrier 
> detect as a pulse clock.
>
> I guess what I'm trying to do is a standard master/slave control system over 
> a standard RS232 link, exploiting standard ATX power supplies on both ends.
>
> I have an 84 year old farmer friend who likes Ubuntu on his laptops, mails 
> pictures of his very old car rebuilding projects. He likes old cars because 
> they're fixable. I would like to think I can still do things with a PC.
>
> Clug wrote:
>> Aren't al kernels nowadays pretty much 100% module-based? Which means you 
>> can't really get them to be simpler, as such?
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the distribution 
>>> version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 mobo). I'm able to use the 
>>> tools and documentation, and have compiled and installed some variant of 
>>> the default opensuse download. However, I didn't get it to run the simple 
>>> standard PC. It seems the grub2 bootloader is another learning process.
>>> 
>>> I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo bootloader. But 
>>> going through all the new configuration options and actual compilation 
>>> literally takes days. From what I can understand, the "vanilla" linux 
>>> kernel now supports technology I didn't know existed.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. Just 
>>> wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the kernel down, and 
>>> any tips??
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Apr 25 20:53:46 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 20:53:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251959440.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251959440.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <571ECA2A.9080109@pinenet.com>

Good suggestion doing 'lsmod.' One of the goofy modules I didn't 
understand and deleted from the new configuration file was "matrox_w1" 
-- something about my MatroxG400 video card having "Dallas 1 wire master 
control." Huh?? Well there it was, in lsmod, loaded for what I still 
don't know.

But your suggestion will help a lot. The last time I recompiled a kernel 
was SuSE 9.2, still a 2.6 kernel (??). And it had a nasty bug in the 
serial port driver that, when setserial was used, would disable the FIFO 
and not re-enable it as expected. By the time I patched and "cleaned up" 
that kernel I lost USB. So I can already see I'm headed in the same 
direction.

Thanks.

Clug wrote:
> The drivers you are talking about probably don't belong in every 
> kernel - and kernels including them date back to about the same 
> timeframe.
>
> The Linux kernel has supported modules since the late '90s, and it's 
> been practially seemelss for over a decade. Kernels that come with 
> distribtions contain these drivers AS MODULES. They are NOT loaded 
> into the kernel unless they are needed. Very few drivers are actally 
> built into the kernel nowadays.
>
> Type 'lsmod' in a terminal window, and see the long, ong list of 
> modules that are loaded automatically. I just did that on one of my 
> machines, and there are about 80. 80! None of them are built into the 
> kenrel. They are loaded as needed.
>
> Those precompiled modules are, again, separate. They may take up 
> diskspace, but we're talking about a few hundred megabytes. That's not 
> the kind of diskspace a modern system is even going to notice. It is 
> absolutely not impacting memory or performance, either.
>
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> Perhaps you are right. I really don't have one good answer, but am 
>> confused and interested in learning.
>>
>> Many of the driver modules for things like SCSI and Sound cards I 
>> remember go way back to ISA bus cards. I doubt you could find many of 
>> these cards if you tried. Hundreds of them that don't seem to belong 
>> in the same kernel source as high performance systems. In my 
>> downloaded pre-compiled kernel the ancient driver modules are 
>> included and litter up both the configuration file and library 
>> directory. An ancient hardware platform deserves the ancient kernel.
>>
>> I realize the PC desktop platform is obsolete to many users. And all 
>> the laptop features, etc., etc., are new to me. But I'm surprised by 
>> all the support for embedded, GPIO, and many things I've barely heard 
>> of. One of the pre-compiled driver modules (GPS) for serial port even 
>> used the carrier detect as a pulse clock.
>>
>> I guess what I'm trying to do is a standard master/slave control 
>> system over a standard RS232 link, exploiting standard ATX power 
>> supplies on both ends.
>>
>> I have an 84 year old farmer friend who likes Ubuntu on his laptops, 
>> mails pictures of his very old car rebuilding projects. He likes old 
>> cars because they're fixable. I would like to think I can still do 
>> things with a PC.
>>
>> Clug wrote:
>>> Aren't al kernels nowadays pretty much 100% module-based? Which 
>>> means you can't really get them to be simpler, as such?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the 
>>>> distribution version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 mobo). 
>>>> I'm able to use the tools and documentation, and have compiled and 
>>>> installed some variant of the default opensuse download. However, I 
>>>> didn't get it to run the simple standard PC. It seems the grub2 
>>>> bootloader is another learning process.
>>>>
>>>> I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo 
>>>> bootloader. But going through all the new configuration options and 
>>>> actual compilation literally takes days. From what I can 
>>>> understand, the "vanilla" linux kernel now supports technology I 
>>>> didn't know existed.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. 
>>>> Just wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the 
>>>> kernel down, and any tips??
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Apr 26 06:29:47 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:29:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <571ECA2A.9080109@pinenet.com>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251959440.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571ECA2A.9080109@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604260616490.26319@cockerel.yaron.org>

Clearly the kernel is loading a module for a feature of your card that you 
don't even know exists (: Chances are this causes negligable (if any) 
impact on your runnign system, but you can always unload the module 
(the command is 'rmmod') and you can prevent that module (or any others) 
from loading in the first place if you like by creating a file called 
"blockmodules.conf" (or anything .conf) in /etc/modprobe.d/ and saying

 	blacklist module_name>

in it.


I still remember the days of downloading the latest kernel (3+ hour 
download over that 56K modem, and we were so happy about how fast that 
was!), untarring it and then going "make config", and being sooo happy 
when we could finally go "make menuconfig" or even "make xconfig" and 
going though ALL the options to see if support for anything new showed up. 
Then "make vmlinuz" and go to sleep, because that's how long that was 
going to take!

To be honest, I haven't felt the need to build my own kernel in probably 
over a decade. Literally, over 10 years. The closest thing to that I've 
done was force my new laptop to use a 4.4 kernel rather than a 3.19 
kernel, because the wireless adapter is only supported in 4.2+ kernels. 
But, again, that was readily available - wget && dpkg the new kernel, 
reboot, and It Just Works.

The days when I was OK using an OS where I have to build everything (and I 
mean /everything/) myself are over. I don't have the time to build my own 
kernel, build my own GCC, build my own GIMP, build the nVidia module, 
building XORG's version of X Windows, build whatever window manager you 
like, build Firefox, etc, etc. Nowadays it's install Ubuntu (or mint or 
whatever) and beat it up a little bit so it works the way I want. I don't 
care if some of the (I just checked) 131 modules it loads are not actually 
used. As long as everything works and is responsive, it's all good.



On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:

> Good suggestion doing 'lsmod.' One of the goofy modules I didn't understand 
> and deleted from the new configuration file was "matrox_w1" -- something 
> about my MatroxG400 video card having "Dallas 1 wire master control." Huh?? 
> Well there it was, in lsmod, loaded for what I still don't know.
>
> But your suggestion will help a lot. The last time I recompiled a kernel was 
> SuSE 9.2, still a 2.6 kernel (??). And it had a nasty bug in the serial port 
> driver that, when setserial was used, would disable the FIFO and not 
> re-enable it as expected. By the time I patched and "cleaned up" that kernel 
> I lost USB. So I can already see I'm headed in the same direction.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Clug wrote:
>> The drivers you are talking about probably don't belong in every kernel - 
>> and kernels including them date back to about the same timeframe.
>> 
>> The Linux kernel has supported modules since the late '90s, and it's been 
>> practially seemelss for over a decade. Kernels that come with distribtions 
>> contain these drivers AS MODULES. They are NOT loaded into the kernel 
>> unless they are needed. Very few drivers are actally built into the kernel 
>> nowadays.
>> 
>> Type 'lsmod' in a terminal window, and see the long, ong list of modules 
>> that are loaded automatically. I just did that on one of my machines, and 
>> there are about 80. 80! None of them are built into the kenrel. They are 
>> loaded as needed.
>> 
>> Those precompiled modules are, again, separate. They may take up diskspace, 
>> but we're talking about a few hundred megabytes. That's not the kind of 
>> diskspace a modern system is even going to notice. It is absolutely not 
>> impacting memory or performance, either.
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps you are right. I really don't have one good answer, but am 
>>> confused and interested in learning.
>>> 
>>> Many of the driver modules for things like SCSI and Sound cards I remember 
>>> go way back to ISA bus cards. I doubt you could find many of these cards 
>>> if you tried. Hundreds of them that don't seem to belong in the same 
>>> kernel source as high performance systems. In my downloaded pre-compiled 
>>> kernel the ancient driver modules are included and litter up both the 
>>> configuration file and library directory. An ancient hardware platform 
>>> deserves the ancient kernel.
>>> 
>>> I realize the PC desktop platform is obsolete to many users. And all the 
>>> laptop features, etc., etc., are new to me. But I'm surprised by all the 
>>> support for embedded, GPIO, and many things I've barely heard of. One of 
>>> the pre-compiled driver modules (GPS) for serial port even used the 
>>> carrier detect as a pulse clock.
>>> 
>>> I guess what I'm trying to do is a standard master/slave control system 
>>> over a standard RS232 link, exploiting standard ATX power supplies on both 
>>> ends.
>>> 
>>> I have an 84 year old farmer friend who likes Ubuntu on his laptops, mails 
>>> pictures of his very old car rebuilding projects. He likes old cars 
>>> because they're fixable. I would like to think I can still do things with 
>>> a PC.
>>> 
>>> Clug wrote:
>>>> Aren't al kernels nowadays pretty much 100% module-based? Which means you 
>>>> can't really get them to be simpler, as such?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the 
>>>>> distribution version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 mobo). I'm 
>>>>> able to use the tools and documentation, and have compiled and installed 
>>>>> some variant of the default opensuse download. However, I didn't get it 
>>>>> to run the simple standard PC. It seems the grub2 bootloader is another 
>>>>> learning process.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo bootloader. 
>>>>> But going through all the new configuration options and actual 
>>>>> compilation literally takes days. From what I can understand, the 
>>>>> "vanilla" linux kernel now supports technology I didn't know existed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. Just 
>>>>> wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the kernel down, 
>>>>> and any tips??
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Apr 26 08:20:00 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:20:00 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604260616490.26319@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251959440.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571ECA2A.9080109@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604260616490.26319@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <20160426132000.GA2076@nobelware.com>

You should not have to build a kernel of your own today for two reasons:

1. since the O(1) scheduler that was introduced in kernel 2.4-2.6, there
is no impact in performance, and
2. modern systems have enough memory to have non-needed modules loaded.

I disagree with "sterling" on that there are few modules compiled into
modern kernels.  "Few" is ambiguous. Most kernels support a crap-load of
hard-drive controllers, raid controllers, etc, so that people do not have
to "modprobe" when they bring up a system in the case that automatic
hardware detection via "lspci" and the like does not work or hardware
paremeters are missing. "Few" modules serve most people's needs (80% or
more) out of the box that way.

Slackware comes with _so_many_ harddrive controllers. But Patrick knows
better. So, he has a "huge" kernel that will take care of 99% of your
needs on any system, aa "scsi" which is a misnomer for legacy reasons
and covers what I said above (a lot f ocontrollers) and some other more
minimal kernels.

As a rule to live by, if you are concerned with your kernel being too large
because of memory requirements, you are wasting your time with really old
hardware. This does not apply to Raspberry Pi people, or anyone running
any embedded ARM based Linux, but those people should know what they are
doing to begin with...

As for quickly configuring a kernel, do not throw away your old .config
files. Throw them in the new kernel source directry and you will mostly
have to "not anser" for including modules as it will be preset to what
you had in tthe earlier kernel build.

Even compiling the kernel is not a problem now, and it used to take days
when I was being stupid back in the day. I have not had to build a kernel
in over 6 years.
IN

From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Apr 26 09:11:39 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:11:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604260616490.26319@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251959440.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571ECA2A.9080109@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604260616490.26319@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <571F771B.20602@pinenet.com>

Again, more good suggestions. Lots to learn. Even 'modprobe' will tell 
all the dependencies, etc.

We digress. I never needed sound, cell phones, laptops, etc. But my wife 
and 3 kids use it all, some now even make the stuff in China. They are 
making new laws to keep people from driving and texting.

Perhaps just the personality of an old guy that moved his then new 
family out to the country for the "simple life." We watched way too many 
of the old "Waltons" TV shows. All of a sudden I have up to 5 cars, 
tractors, chain saws, tools, water, power, and just to keep the heat on 
in a blizzard at 20 below is life itself. So I try to find simple and 
reliable.

Once a pretty good math guy, even my dulled old brain can understand we 
can't just keep adding to this system forever, as magnificent as it is. 
And I know the old core unix model is there under a mountain of great 
additions. I just think a lot of this new stuff can run in a separate 
box with user software. Still "back to basics" here.

Anyway, I'll get off the soapbox and again say thanks for some good help.

Clug wrote:
> Clearly the kernel is loading a module for a feature of your card that 
> you don't even know exists (: Chances are this causes negligable (if 
> any) impact on your runnign system, but you can always unload the 
> module (the command is 'rmmod') and you can prevent that module (or 
> any others) from loading in the first place if you like by creating a 
> file called "blockmodules.conf" (or anything .conf) in 
> /etc/modprobe.d/ and saying
>
>     blacklist module_name>
>
> in it.
>
>
> I still remember the days of downloading the latest kernel (3+ hour 
> download over that 56K modem, and we were so happy about how fast that 
> was!), untarring it and then going "make config", and being sooo happy 
> when we could finally go "make menuconfig" or even "make xconfig" and 
> going though ALL the options to see if support for anything new showed 
> up. Then "make vmlinuz" and go to sleep, because that's how long that 
> was going to take!
>
> To be honest, I haven't felt the need to build my own kernel in 
> probably over a decade. Literally, over 10 years. The closest thing to 
> that I've done was force my new laptop to use a 4.4 kernel rather than 
> a 3.19 kernel, because the wireless adapter is only supported in 4.2+ 
> kernels. But, again, that was readily available - wget && dpkg the new 
> kernel, reboot, and It Just Works.
>
> The days when I was OK using an OS where I have to build everything 
> (and I mean /everything/) myself are over. I don't have the time to 
> build my own kernel, build my own GCC, build my own GIMP, build the 
> nVidia module, building XORG's version of X Windows, build whatever 
> window manager you like, build Firefox, etc, etc. Nowadays it's 
> install Ubuntu (or mint or whatever) and beat it up a little bit so it 
> works the way I want. I don't care if some of the (I just checked) 131 
> modules it loads are not actually used. As long as everything works 
> and is responsive, it's all good.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
>> Good suggestion doing 'lsmod.' One of the goofy modules I didn't 
>> understand and deleted from the new configuration file was 
>> "matrox_w1" -- something about my MatroxG400 video card having 
>> "Dallas 1 wire master control." Huh?? Well there it was, in lsmod, 
>> loaded for what I still don't know.
>>
>> But your suggestion will help a lot. The last time I recompiled a 
>> kernel was SuSE 9.2, still a 2.6 kernel (??). And it had a nasty bug 
>> in the serial port driver that, when setserial was used, would 
>> disable the FIFO and not re-enable it as expected. By the time I 
>> patched and "cleaned up" that kernel I lost USB. So I can already see 
>> I'm headed in the same direction.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Clug wrote:
>>> The drivers you are talking about probably don't belong in every 
>>> kernel - and kernels including them date back to about the same 
>>> timeframe.
>>>
>>> The Linux kernel has supported modules since the late '90s, and it's 
>>> been practially seemelss for over a decade. Kernels that come with 
>>> distribtions contain these drivers AS MODULES. They are NOT loaded 
>>> into the kernel unless they are needed. Very few drivers are actally 
>>> built into the kernel nowadays.
>>>
>>> Type 'lsmod' in a terminal window, and see the long, ong list of 
>>> modules that are loaded automatically. I just did that on one of my 
>>> machines, and there are about 80. 80! None of them are built into 
>>> the kenrel. They are loaded as needed.
>>>
>>> Those precompiled modules are, again, separate. They may take up 
>>> diskspace, but we're talking about a few hundred megabytes. That's 
>>> not the kind of diskspace a modern system is even going to notice. 
>>> It is absolutely not impacting memory or performance, either.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you are right. I really don't have one good answer, but am 
>>>> confused and interested in learning.
>>>>
>>>> Many of the driver modules for things like SCSI and Sound cards I 
>>>> remember go way back to ISA bus cards. I doubt you could find many 
>>>> of these cards if you tried. Hundreds of them that don't seem to 
>>>> belong in the same kernel source as high performance systems. In my 
>>>> downloaded pre-compiled kernel the ancient driver modules are 
>>>> included and litter up both the configuration file and library 
>>>> directory. An ancient hardware platform deserves the ancient kernel.
>>>>
>>>> I realize the PC desktop platform is obsolete to many users. And 
>>>> all the laptop features, etc., etc., are new to me. But I'm 
>>>> surprised by all the support for embedded, GPIO, and many things 
>>>> I've barely heard of. One of the pre-compiled driver modules (GPS) 
>>>> for serial port even used the carrier detect as a pulse clock.
>>>>
>>>> I guess what I'm trying to do is a standard master/slave control 
>>>> system over a standard RS232 link, exploiting standard ATX power 
>>>> supplies on both ends.
>>>>
>>>> I have an 84 year old farmer friend who likes Ubuntu on his 
>>>> laptops, mails pictures of his very old car rebuilding projects. He 
>>>> likes old cars because they're fixable. I would like to think I can 
>>>> still do things with a PC.
>>>>
>>>> Clug wrote:
>>>>> Aren't al kernels nowadays pretty much 100% module-based? Which 
>>>>> means you can't really get them to be simpler, as such?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the 
>>>>>> distribution version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 
>>>>>> mobo). I'm able to use the tools and documentation, and have 
>>>>>> compiled and installed some variant of the default opensuse 
>>>>>> download. However, I didn't get it to run the simple standard PC. 
>>>>>> It seems the grub2 bootloader is another learning process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo 
>>>>>> bootloader. But going through all the new configuration options 
>>>>>> and actual compilation literally takes days. From what I can 
>>>>>> understand, the "vanilla" linux kernel now supports technology I 
>>>>>> didn't know existed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. 
>>>>>> Just wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the 
>>>>>> kernel down, and any tips??
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 09:30:14 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:30:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] compiling a kernel
In-Reply-To: <571F771B.20602@pinenet.com>
References: <571E840D.9030405@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251557110.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571EAB77.1070906@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604251959440.24170@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571ECA2A.9080109@pinenet.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1604260616490.26319@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <571F771B.20602@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFx54AW-oyHdPPPME-agU6pzGCuOoY-PsBsMY_MVYET3A@mail.gmail.com>

nice. i liked reading this thread

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:

> Again, more good suggestions. Lots to learn. Even 'modprobe' will tell all
> the dependencies, etc.
>
> We digress. I never needed sound, cell phones, laptops, etc. But my wife
> and 3 kids use it all, some now even make the stuff in China. They are
> making new laws to keep people from driving and texting.
>
> Perhaps just the personality of an old guy that moved his then new family
> out to the country for the "simple life." We watched way too many of the
> old "Waltons" TV shows. All of a sudden I have up to 5 cars, tractors,
> chain saws, tools, water, power, and just to keep the heat on in a blizzard
> at 20 below is life itself. So I try to find simple and reliable.
>
> Once a pretty good math guy, even my dulled old brain can understand we
> can't just keep adding to this system forever, as magnificent as it is. And
> I know the old core unix model is there under a mountain of great
> additions. I just think a lot of this new stuff can run in a separate box
> with user software. Still "back to basics" here.
>
> Anyway, I'll get off the soapbox and again say thanks for some good help.
>
>
> Clug wrote:
>
>> Clearly the kernel is loading a module for a feature of your card that
>> you don't even know exists (: Chances are this causes negligable (if any)
>> impact on your runnign system, but you can always unload the module (the
>> command is 'rmmod') and you can prevent that module (or any others) from
>> loading in the first place if you like by creating a file called
>> "blockmodules.conf" (or anything .conf) in /etc/modprobe.d/ and saying
>>
>>     blacklist module_name>
>>
>> in it.
>>
>>
>> I still remember the days of downloading the latest kernel (3+ hour
>> download over that 56K modem, and we were so happy about how fast that
>> was!), untarring it and then going "make config", and being sooo happy when
>> we could finally go "make menuconfig" or even "make xconfig" and going
>> though ALL the options to see if support for anything new showed up. Then
>> "make vmlinuz" and go to sleep, because that's how long that was going to
>> take!
>>
>> To be honest, I haven't felt the need to build my own kernel in probably
>> over a decade. Literally, over 10 years. The closest thing to that I've
>> done was force my new laptop to use a 4.4 kernel rather than a 3.19 kernel,
>> because the wireless adapter is only supported in 4.2+ kernels. But, again,
>> that was readily available - wget && dpkg the new kernel, reboot, and It
>> Just Works.
>>
>> The days when I was OK using an OS where I have to build everything (and
>> I mean /everything/) myself are over. I don't have the time to build my own
>> kernel, build my own GCC, build my own GIMP, build the nVidia module,
>> building XORG's version of X Windows, build whatever window manager you
>> like, build Firefox, etc, etc. Nowadays it's install Ubuntu (or mint or
>> whatever) and beat it up a little bit so it works the way I want. I don't
>> care if some of the (I just checked) 131 modules it loads are not actually
>> used. As long as everything works and is responsive, it's all good.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>
>> Good suggestion doing 'lsmod.' One of the goofy modules I didn't
>>> understand and deleted from the new configuration file was "matrox_w1" --
>>> something about my MatroxG400 video card having "Dallas 1 wire master
>>> control." Huh?? Well there it was, in lsmod, loaded for what I still don't
>>> know.
>>>
>>> But your suggestion will help a lot. The last time I recompiled a kernel
>>> was SuSE 9.2, still a 2.6 kernel (??). And it had a nasty bug in the serial
>>> port driver that, when setserial was used, would disable the FIFO and not
>>> re-enable it as expected. By the time I patched and "cleaned up" that
>>> kernel I lost USB. So I can already see I'm headed in the same direction.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Clug wrote:
>>>
>>>> The drivers you are talking about probably don't belong in every kernel
>>>> - and kernels including them date back to about the same timeframe.
>>>>
>>>> The Linux kernel has supported modules since the late '90s, and it's
>>>> been practially seemelss for over a decade. Kernels that come with
>>>> distribtions contain these drivers AS MODULES. They are NOT loaded into the
>>>> kernel unless they are needed. Very few drivers are actally built into the
>>>> kernel nowadays.
>>>>
>>>> Type 'lsmod' in a terminal window, and see the long, ong list of
>>>> modules that are loaded automatically. I just did that on one of my
>>>> machines, and there are about 80. 80! None of them are built into the
>>>> kenrel. They are loaded as needed.
>>>>
>>>> Those precompiled modules are, again, separate. They may take up
>>>> diskspace, but we're talking about a few hundred megabytes. That's not the
>>>> kind of diskspace a modern system is even going to notice. It is absolutely
>>>> not impacting memory or performance, either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you are right. I really don't have one good answer, but am
>>>>> confused and interested in learning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many of the driver modules for things like SCSI and Sound cards I
>>>>> remember go way back to ISA bus cards. I doubt you could find many of these
>>>>> cards if you tried. Hundreds of them that don't seem to belong in the same
>>>>> kernel source as high performance systems. In my downloaded pre-compiled
>>>>> kernel the ancient driver modules are included and litter up both the
>>>>> configuration file and library directory. An ancient hardware platform
>>>>> deserves the ancient kernel.
>>>>>
>>>>> I realize the PC desktop platform is obsolete to many users. And all
>>>>> the laptop features, etc., etc., are new to me. But I'm surprised by all
>>>>> the support for embedded, GPIO, and many things I've barely heard of. One
>>>>> of the pre-compiled driver modules (GPS) for serial port even used the
>>>>> carrier detect as a pulse clock.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess what I'm trying to do is a standard master/slave control
>>>>> system over a standard RS232 link, exploiting standard ATX power supplies
>>>>> on both ends.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have an 84 year old farmer friend who likes Ubuntu on his laptops,
>>>>> mails pictures of his very old car rebuilding projects. He likes old cars
>>>>> because they're fixable. I would like to think I can still do things with a
>>>>> PC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clug wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Aren't al kernels nowadays pretty much 100% module-based? Which means
>>>>>> you can't really get them to be simpler, as such?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm trying to compile a linux kernel that is simpler than the
>>>>>>> distribution version (using old opensuse 12.2 on an intel p4 mobo). I'm
>>>>>>> able to use the tools and documentation, and have compiled and installed
>>>>>>> some variant of the default opensuse download. However, I didn't get it to
>>>>>>> run the simple standard PC. It seems the grub2 bootloader is another
>>>>>>> learning process.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did this years ago on simpler pentium machines with lilo
>>>>>>> bootloader. But going through all the new configuration options and actual
>>>>>>> compilation literally takes days. From what I can understand, the "vanilla"
>>>>>>> linux kernel now supports technology I didn't know existed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not sure I know how to get back to basic computing anymore. Just
>>>>>>> wondering if others have tried and succeeded slimming the kernel down, and
>>>>>>> any tips??
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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