From jpschewe at mtu.net  Thu Aug  4 15:36:27 2016
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:36:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen recommendations
Message-ID: <CALpcnoxbA+9Axf2F95g+MxAcx-k=1aBv4eZ8k=L6fqfA-EhKHg@mail.gmail.com>

I've been using Xen on Ubuntu for a few years now and rather happy with it.
I started with the xm toolstack and have migrated to the xl toolstack since
xm is deprecated. Recently I have wanted to use pvscsi to allow my tape
library to be accessed from a VM. It seems that xl doesn't have support for
pvscsi yet. So I'm wondering what others are using for their frontend to
xen? What frontends support pvscsi and Ubuntu?

Thanks.

Jon Schewe

-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From sulrich at botwerks.org  Thu Aug  4 16:12:42 2016
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 16:12:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen recommendations
In-Reply-To: <CALpcnoxbA+9Axf2F95g+MxAcx-k=1aBv4eZ8k=L6fqfA-EhKHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnoxbA+9Axf2F95g+MxAcx-k=1aBv4eZ8k=L6fqfA-EhKHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAORhBqw7t=FK-r68z-pZ+QpEZ_LhrgPdnD0z1ULV-KQ2TBG-NA@mail.gmail.com>

i don't use xen myself. but there may be happy cohabitation between
pvscsi and xen within libvirt.

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> I've been using Xen on Ubuntu for a few years now and rather happy with it.
> I started with the xm toolstack and have migrated to the xl toolstack since
> xm is deprecated. Recently I have wanted to use pvscsi to allow my tape
> library to be accessed from a VM. It seems that xl doesn't have support for
> pvscsi yet. So I'm wondering what others are using for their frontend to
> xen? What frontends support pvscsi and Ubuntu?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jon Schewe
>
> --
> http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*)

From jpschewe at mtu.net  Thu Aug  4 19:08:35 2016
From: jpschewe at mtu.net (Jon Schewe)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 19:08:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Xen recommendations
In-Reply-To: <CAORhBqw7t=FK-r68z-pZ+QpEZ_LhrgPdnD0z1ULV-KQ2TBG-NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALpcnoxbA+9Axf2F95g+MxAcx-k=1aBv4eZ8k=L6fqfA-EhKHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAORhBqw7t=FK-r68z-pZ+QpEZ_LhrgPdnD0z1ULV-KQ2TBG-NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALpcnowpsbCBjVUjXPuXzc5f-p8Puk0UWVDBCjgBvMSiO_rnkA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm kind of hoping there is, but I'd like to hear from someone with
experience using such tools.

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:12 PM, steve ulrich <sulrich at botwerks.org> wrote:

> i don't use xen myself. but there may be happy cohabitation between
> pvscsi and xen within libvirt.
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net> wrote:
> > I've been using Xen on Ubuntu for a few years now and rather happy with
> it.
> > I started with the xm toolstack and have migrated to the xl toolstack
> since
> > xm is deprecated. Recently I have wanted to use pvscsi to allow my tape
> > library to be accessed from a VM. It seems that xl doesn't have support
> for
> > pvscsi yet. So I'm wondering what others are using for their frontend to
> > xen? What frontends support pvscsi and Ubuntu?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Jon Schewe
> >
> > --
> > http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
>
>
> --
> steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*)
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
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From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 07:42:09 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:42:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OSX/mobile when compiling Firefox.
Message-ID: <a897f056-fbbc-5c8a-09ff-8bc0fcd8dfdd@gmail.com>


I recently compiled Firefox to avoid the dark background (darknoise) 
when opening images.  However, I noticed osx and mobile directories in 
the source.

I'm curious, am I compiling features I don't need or want as I don't use 
OSX or mobile?  I see separate downloads for Android and iOS but not for 
OSX.

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Aug 10 13:15:56 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 18:15:56 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] OSX/mobile when compiling Firefox.
In-Reply-To: <a897f056-fbbc-5c8a-09ff-8bc0fcd8dfdd@gmail.com>
References: <a897f056-fbbc-5c8a-09ff-8bc0fcd8dfdd@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160810181556.GA3015@nobelware.com>

> 
> I recently compiled Firefox to avoid the dark background (darknoise) 
> when opening images. 

Can you elaborate on just this?
 

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Wed Aug 10 13:41:57 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:41:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OSX/mobile when compiling Firefox.
In-Reply-To: <20160810181556.GA3015@nobelware.com>
References: <a897f056-fbbc-5c8a-09ff-8bc0fcd8dfdd@gmail.com>
 <20160810181556.GA3015@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <15408B30-123F-4F16-B18B-71B656C70C25@cwis.biz>

It?s a background splash color that, when you load images, is the default for Firefox.

Seems to me, however, that it could be done in the settings instead.  Although I looked and don?t see it in mine.

Example:



> On Aug 10, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com <mailto:iznogoud at nobelware.com>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I recently compiled Firefox to avoid the dark background (darknoise) 
>> when opening images. 
> 
> Can you elaborate on just this?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>

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From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 16:40:47 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:40:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OSX/mobile when compiling Firefox.
In-Reply-To: <15408B30-123F-4F16-B18B-71B656C70C25@cwis.biz>
References: <a897f056-fbbc-5c8a-09ff-8bc0fcd8dfdd@gmail.com>
 <20160810181556.GA3015@nobelware.com>
 <15408B30-123F-4F16-B18B-71B656C70C25@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <05956900-292e-d842-078c-e5ec60410d9f@gmail.com>


I've also found nothing in settings.  There is an extension, but it also 
changes the image position from center to upper-left.  I want it centered.

In the firefox-48.0/toolkit/themes/windows/global/media directory I 
simply copied imagedoc-lightnoise.png to imagedoc-darknoise.png and 
compiled using Beyond Linux From Scratch documentation.

    http://linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/xsoft/firefox.html

I'm new at compiling Firefox and perhaps there's a better way, but it 
fixed the problem.  I know it's subjective, but I really dislike the 
default black background and it's now white.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 08/10/2016 01:41 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> It?s a background splash color that, when you load images, is the 
> default for Firefox.
>
> Seems to me, however, that it could be done in the settings instead. 
>  Although I looked and don?t see it in mine.
>
> Example:
>
>
>> On Aug 10, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com 
>> <mailto:iznogoud at nobelware.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I recently compiled Firefox to avoid the dark background (darknoise)
>>> when opening images.
>>
>> Can you elaborate on just this?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Aug 13 17:13:23 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 17:13:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: IEEE August program: INFRARED ASTRONOMY FROM THE
	GROUND, AIR, AND SPACE
Message-ID: <9E679EBE53AE43CA8D9790FC0257CC0A@D830B>

 
 
Infrared Astronomy from the Ground, Air, and Space 

 

Robert D. Gehrz,  Professor, Minnesota Institute for Astrophysics,
University of Minnesota.

Infrared (IR) astronomical observations, beginning in the late 1960's, have
provided new understanding of the origin, content, and chemical evolution of
the Universe. Early observations in the field were made with ground-based
observatories that set the stage for more advanced facilities recently
developed by NASA.

A brief history of the field will be presented. Observations with the
Wyoming Infrared Observatory, and NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope and
Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared astronomy (SOFIA) will be presented.
Anticipated observations with NASA's James Webb Space Telescope will be
described.

 

Location details and (free) registration
https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/40148

 

Date: 27 August 2016,   Time: 09:30 AM to 12:30 PM


Must register before 6pm on Friday August 26.  


 

Agenda

9:30  Networking, Coffee

10:00 Presentation:  

11:00  Questions, Discussion

11:30  Pizza

Free, but space is limited and we also need headcount for pizza.

 

 

Chuck Cole

Vice Chair TC IEEE Computer Society




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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 15:54:03 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 15:54:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>

I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
avoid the same mistake.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Aug 15 16:00:59 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 16:00:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>

I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed expectations. 

I got my $250 back for the installation.

Twice.

It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by the agreement.

> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50 
> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only 
> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all 
> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I 
> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
> avoid the same mistake.  
> 
> -- 
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tompoe at meltel.net  Mon Aug 15 16:23:23 2016
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 16:23:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>

Hi: What software do you use to monitor speeds. Does the software alert 
you when speeds drop?

Tom


On 08/15/2016 04:00 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a 
> penny after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed 
> expectations.
>
> I got my $250 back for the installation.
>
> Twice.
>
> It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide 
> by the agreement.
>
>> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:woodbrian77 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
>> discount off the price of the modem. Now I got the first bill
>> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
>> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
>> that was available at the time I signed up. I didn't get the
>> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK. But at least I
>> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
>> avoid the same mistake.
>>
>> -- 
>> Brian
>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
>> http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?

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From lkateley at kateley.com  Mon Aug 15 16:39:03 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 16:39:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2505beda-811a-917f-34c8-4d6ef7ff29a5@kateley.com>

I just found recently they don't like when you tweet bad about them :)

lk


On 8/15/16 3:54 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
> avoid the same mistake.
>
> -- 
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Aug 15 16:52:04 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 16:52:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
Message-ID: <19E6EBCF-7195-4683-A7A1-4885D6B327B4@cwis.biz>

I test when I need to. speediest.net was the primary one then but I also did the DSLreports.com options (this was fall, 2010).

Today I usually I average expectations between a Regina, SK, CA server on SpeedTest and SpeedOf.me


> On Aug 15, 2016, at 4:23 PM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi: What software do you use to monitor speeds.  Does the software alert you when speeds drop?
> 
> Tom
> 
> On 08/15/2016 04:00 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed expectations.        
>> 
>> I got my $250 back for the installation.
>> 
>> Twice.
>> 
>> It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by the agreement.
>> 
>>> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com <mailto:woodbrian77 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50 
>>> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
>>> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only 
>>> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all 
>>> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
>>> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I 
>>> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
>>> avoid the same mistake.  
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Brian
>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
>>> http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> -- 
> You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From theixian at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 15 16:59:35 2016
From: theixian at hotmail.com (Loren Burlingame)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 16:59:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b102aaa-9344-018c-1df9-b6ec7cdb80c1@lorenb.me>

That is a shame.

As long as we are talking about CL...

A CL drone stopped by my apt the other day to discuss our satisfaction 
with the service, yadda yadda. He did bring up one point that I think is 
worth sharing.

He said that you can keep your introductory "new customer" rate for more 
than a year by calling their customer loyalty department and requesting 
that intro rate be re-instated. He said they do not deny anyone if their 
account has remained in good standing (no late payments).

My rate went up by over $50/mo after the first year so I was happy to 
hear about that.

YMMV


On 08/15/2016 03:54 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
> avoid the same mistake.
>
> -- 
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 17:02:57 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 17:02:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: IEEE August program: INFRARED ASTRONOMY FROM
 THE GROUND, AIR, AND SPACE
In-Reply-To: <9E679EBE53AE43CA8D9790FC0257CC0A@D830B>
References: <9E679EBE53AE43CA8D9790FC0257CC0A@D830B>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHMTyRi-Qe-8MS8b-tTgTfNbs2L76PUDZQRnhes-fw3BA@mail.gmail.com>

gotta love that! sounds wonderful. I won't be able to go but it sparked my
curiosity.

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>
>
> *Infrared Astronomy from the Ground, Air, and Space *
>
>
>
> Robert D. Gehrz,  Professor, Minnesota Institute for Astrophysics,
> University of Minnesota.
>
> Infrared (IR) astronomical observations, beginning in the late
> 1960?s, have provided new understanding of the origin, content, and
> chemical evolution of the Universe. Early observations in the field were
> made with ground-based observatories that set the stage for more
> advanced facilities recently developed by NASA.
>
> A brief history of the field will be presented. Observations with the
> Wyoming Infrared Observatory, and NASA?s Spitzer Space Telescope and
> Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared astronomy (SOFIA) will be presented.
> Anticipated observations with NASA?s James Webb Space Telescope will be
> described.
>
>
>
> Location details and (free) registration  https://meetings.vtools.ieee.
> org/m/40148
>
>
>
> Date: 27 August 2016,   Time: 09:30 AM to 12:30 PM
>
>
> Must register before 6pm on Friday August 26.
>
>
>
> Agenda
>
> 9:30  Networking, Coffee
>
> 10:00 Presentation:
>
> 11:00  Questions, Discussion
>
> 11:30  Pizza
>
> Free, but space is limited and we also need headcount for pizza.
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck Cole
>
> Vice Chair TC IEEE Computer Society
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sulrich at botwerks.org  Mon Aug 15 17:07:01 2016
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 17:07:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
Message-ID: <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>

while i enjoy a good centurylink flogging as much as the next guy, i
have to say i've been quite pleased with the service.    there was no
$250 charge for installation, so perhaps i just got them on a good
day.  though to be fair, it did take a bit longer to get them to add
my split on the OLT since apparently they ran out of capacity on the
previous split.  that took no shortage of phone calls.

given that the interface is a gige phy you're not going to be able to
detect a line rate change, you'd have to actively probe for changes in
throughput.  which is an amusing notion.

although i'm more curious as to what the actual expectation was
relative to the speed tests was?  with the encapsulation overhead on
the service you're not going to get a full gigabit of IP throughput
anyway.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:
> Hi: What software do you use to monitor speeds.  Does the software alert you
> when speeds drop?
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 08/15/2016 04:00 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
> I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny
> after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed
> expectations.
>
> I got my $250 back for the installation.
>
> Twice.
>
> It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by the
> agreement.
>
> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
> avoid the same mistake.
>
> --
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> --
> You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a
> Republican?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*)

From lkateley at kateley.com  Mon Aug 15 17:21:08 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 17:21:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93632DAF-34A2-4ABF-9979-EFEA27E53827@kateley.com>

Now that my 1 gig is working I get like 930-950..loving it!!!


Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 15, 2016, at 5:07 PM, steve ulrich <sulrich at botwerks.org> wrote:
> 
> while i enjoy a good centurylink flogging as much as the next guy, i
> have to say i've been quite pleased with the service.    there was no
> $250 charge for installation, so perhaps i just got them on a good
> day.  though to be fair, it did take a bit longer to get them to add
> my split on the OLT since apparently they ran out of capacity on the
> previous split.  that took no shortage of phone calls.
> 
> given that the interface is a gige phy you're not going to be able to
> detect a line rate change, you'd have to actively probe for changes in
> throughput.  which is an amusing notion.
> 
> although i'm more curious as to what the actual expectation was
> relative to the speed tests was?  with the encapsulation overhead on
> the service you're not going to get a full gigabit of IP throughput
> anyway.
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:
>> Hi: What software do you use to monitor speeds.  Does the software alert you
>> when speeds drop?
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> 
>> On 08/15/2016 04:00 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> 
>> I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny
>> after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed
>> expectations.
>> 
>> I got my $250 back for the installation.
>> 
>> Twice.
>> 
>> It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by the
>> agreement.
>> 
>> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
>> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
>> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
>> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
>> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
>> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
>> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
>> avoid the same mistake.
>> 
>> --
>> Brian
>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
>> http://webEbenezer.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a
>> Republican?
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*)
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tompoe at meltel.net  Mon Aug 15 17:21:25 2016
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 17:21:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58db06cd-8383-321b-4c66-a5ccd41c11ca@meltel.net>

Steve:  The FCC's reclassification of the Internet as a public utility 
has shifted the state's position on community broadband development.  
It's now reasonable to consider executing community emergency mesh 
networks.  What would you expect to happen to your speeds, if you acted 
as a "node" on such a network?

Tom


On 08/15/2016 05:07 PM, steve ulrich wrote:
> while i enjoy a good centurylink flogging as much as the next guy, i
> have to say i've been quite pleased with the service.    there was no
> $250 charge for installation, so perhaps i just got them on a good
> day.  though to be fair, it did take a bit longer to get them to add
> my split on the OLT since apparently they ran out of capacity on the
> previous split.  that took no shortage of phone calls.
>
> given that the interface is a gige phy you're not going to be able to
> detect a line rate change, you'd have to actively probe for changes in
> throughput.  which is an amusing notion.
>
> although i'm more curious as to what the actual expectation was
> relative to the speed tests was?  with the encapsulation overhead on
> the service you're not going to get a full gigabit of IP throughput
> anyway.
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:
>> Hi: What software do you use to monitor speeds.  Does the software alert you
>> when speeds drop?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On 08/15/2016 04:00 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>> I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny
>> after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed
>> expectations.
>>
>> I got my $250 back for the installation.
>>
>> Twice.
>>
>> It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by the
>> agreement.
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
>> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
>> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
>> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
>> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
>> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
>> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
>> avoid the same mistake.
>>
>> --
>> Brian
>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
>> http://webEbenezer.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> --
>> You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a
>> Republican?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>

-- 
You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?

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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Aug 15 19:07:44 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 19:07:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>

It?s helpful to reply to the right person if you want a response.

This was 2010. More than 6 years ago. This was FTTN, not DSL per say but close to it. It was a marketing failure. And the installation fee was due to a business account. That?s unrelated to the customer satisfaction/over promising/under delivering issue.

The speeds I was paying for versus the speeds I was getting was close to 10:1 on all testing media EXCEPT for their speed test they said people should use. 

The same speed test had my cable line stating it was 25% of the actual throughput.

I provided over 100 different tests all taken within moments of the others to show that their rating and product was, indeed, a lie. I shipped the modem back in the box they sent me and I ended up getting my installation costs reimbursed. Twice. So they paid me to not be happy with their product.


> On Aug 15, 2016, at 5:07 PM, steve ulrich <sulrich at botwerks.org> wrote:
> 
> while i enjoy a good centurylink flogging as much as the next guy, i
> have to say i've been quite pleased with the service.    there was no
> $250 charge for installation, so perhaps i just got them on a good
> day.  though to be fair, it did take a bit longer to get them to add
> my split on the OLT since apparently they ran out of capacity on the
> previous split.  that took no shortage of phone calls.
> 
> given that the interface is a gige phy you're not going to be able to
> detect a line rate change, you'd have to actively probe for changes in
> throughput.  which is an amusing notion.
> 
> although i'm more curious as to what the actual expectation was
> relative to the speed tests was?  with the encapsulation overhead on
> the service you're not going to get a full gigabit of IP throughput
> anyway.


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Aug 15 19:15:11 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 19:15:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> This was 2010. More than 6 years ago. This was FTTN, not DSL per say

Pet peeve: it's not "Per say", it's "Per Se". It is a Latin phrase.

--


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Aug 15 19:25:21 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 19:25:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>

Pet peeve: OT responses in on topic threads :)


On Aug 15, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
>> This was 2010. More than 6 years ago. This was FTTN, not DSL per say
> 
> Pet peeve: it's not "Per say", it's "Per Se". It is a Latin phrase.
> 
> --
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Aug 15 19:27:32 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 19:27:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151926450.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>

Pet Peeve: I miss the olden days when we'd all talk about Linux. GET OFF 
MY LAWN!!!

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> Pet peeve: OT responses in on topic threads :)
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> This was 2010. More than 6 years ago. This was FTTN, not DSL per say
>>
>> Pet peeve: it's not "Per say", it's "Per Se". It is a Latin phrase.
>>
>> --
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Mon Aug 15 20:33:04 2016
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:33:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
Message-ID: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>

I had a similar experience but having to do with fees connected to my moving from one address to another. After 8 or 9 phone calls and still not getting service activated on the scheduled move in date (or even the next couple of days) I did get a fee that we had agreed to beforehand would not happen. After numerous more calls and lots of them arguing they had no record of any such agreement (the supervisor I had spoken to before the move claimed there would be a note on my account) I was finally fed up. I told them, "I know you record all phone calls so I demand you dig up all of the calls with me on these dates." I proceeded to give them the multiple dates I had logged my phone calls on. They reluctantly agreed to do this but said it could take up to a couple of days to do. The next morning (or maybe it was even later that same day) they called me back and decided it was easier and likely way cheaper to just refund me all of the fees and other crap they tacked onto my account, including a new modem rental that I specifically told them I don't want. I said, "if you want the modem back you better provide me a shipping label or else send someone to come get it at my convenience." ?They eventually caved on all points.
At this point my plan is to never make any changes with them as they always screw something up on every change.?
This is, by far, superior to my experiences with Comcast who are now forbidden from ever attaching their network to my house (TV and internet both).?
Sigh... At least I can run Linux and stuff and have been windows free on my laptops and workstations for a long time now. Dealing with windows is like dealing with CenturyLink, you have to pay an extra hidden fee that is just waiting to give you a bad day, seemingly on purpose.
Still running Linux Mint on my laptop and workstation to much satisfaction.?




-------- Original message --------From: Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> Date: 8/15/16  4:00 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> Cc: cialug at cialug.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Get it in writing 
I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed expectations.?
I got my $250 back for the installation.
Twice.
It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by the agreement.
On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50 
discount off the price of the modem.? Now I got the first bill
and no discount.? I called them and they said they could only 
give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all 
that was available at the time I signed up.? I didn't get the
terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.? But at least I 
can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
avoid the same mistake.? 

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net




_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From kellywilliams81 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 20:38:49 2016
From: kellywilliams81 at gmail.com (Kelly Williams)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:38:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>
References: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CALkoPAosVNuqQcvYqFKrsqP-d0Udfm19ieOVX8C0LfCSTZm6Yg@mail.gmail.com>

I have had better luck with CL then my local provider, CL fixes things
faster than HTC, CL has better speeds, and if CL goes down its like 3-10
minutes. HTC goes down its more like a day they are down..

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> I had a similar experience but having to do with fees connected to my
> moving from one address to another. After 8 or 9 phone calls and still not
> getting service activated on the scheduled move in date (or even the next
> couple of days) I did get a fee that we had agreed to beforehand would not
> happen. After numerous more calls and lots of them arguing they had no
> record of any such agreement (the supervisor I had spoken to before the
> move claimed there would be a note on my account) I was finally fed up. I
> told them, "I know you record all phone calls so I demand you dig up all of
> the calls with me on these dates." I proceeded to give them the multiple
> dates I had logged my phone calls on. They reluctantly agreed to do this
> but said it could take up to a couple of days to do. The next morning (or
> maybe it was even later that same day) they called me back and decided it
> was easier and likely way cheaper to just refund me all of the fees and
> other crap they tacked onto my account, including a new modem rental that I
> specifically told them I don't want. I said, "if you want the modem back
> you better provide me a shipping label or else send someone to come get it
> at my convenience."  They eventually caved on all points.
>
> At this point my plan is to never make any changes with them as they
> always screw something up on every change.
>
> This is, by far, superior to my experiences with Comcast who are now
> forbidden from ever attaching their network to my house (TV and internet
> both).
>
> Sigh... At least I can run Linux and stuff and have been windows free on
> my laptops and workstations for a long time now. Dealing with windows is
> like dealing with CenturyLink, you have to pay an extra hidden fee that is
> just waiting to give you a bad day, seemingly on purpose.
>
> Still running Linux Mint on my laptop and workstation to much
> satisfaction.
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
> Date: 8/15/16 4:00 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Cc: cialug at cialug.org
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
>
> I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny
> after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed
> expectations.
>
> I got my $250 back for the installation.
>
> Twice.
>
> It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by
> the agreement.
>
> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
> avoid the same mistake.
>
> --
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 21:18:01 2016
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:18:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Information request
Message-ID: <CAPpdf581CeEZ159okiwYTFTfUnVdgWcH_xvGq0CHYQ06AEzYRA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings

Just looking into how to use a database like Postgresql.

On the other side they use front end programs.

What is a 'normal' or common approach in the linux world?

TIA

Dee

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Mon Aug 15 21:56:56 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:56:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Information request
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf581CeEZ159okiwYTFTfUnVdgWcH_xvGq0CHYQ06AEzYRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf581CeEZ159okiwYTFTfUnVdgWcH_xvGq0CHYQ06AEzYRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608152154030.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>

It's absolutely dependent on what you're trying to do with the database.

For example, if I'm trying to write a program to store information, the 
interaction will mostly be in a Perl/PHP/Python program.

If I'm using MythTV, or Wordpress, I'll be using, well. MythTV or 
Wordpress.

On occasion I'll use the CLI 'mysql' prorgram to fix small things, or a 
GUI frontend if MythTV has some bugs I need to go in and fix manually.

This is the case regardless of OS. It's all about what you need to do.


On Mon, 15 Aug 2016, o1bigtenor wrote:

> Greetings
>
> Just looking into how to use a database like Postgresql.
>
> On the other side they use front end programs.
>
> What is a 'normal' or common approach in the linux world?
>
> TIA
>
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Aug 15 23:19:14 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 23:19:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Information request
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608152154030.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CAPpdf581CeEZ159okiwYTFTfUnVdgWcH_xvGq0CHYQ06AEzYRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608152154030.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <248C85D7-1D73-4CF6-BB22-0F71677FDA4A@cwis.biz>

True but I would suggest PHPpgAdmin for getting the basics of their terminology together if you have running a LAGP server.

The MySQL version of it has been a life saver for the last 15 years.

> On Aug 15, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> 
> It's absolutely dependent on what you're trying to do with the database.
> 
> For example, if I'm trying to write a program to store information, the interaction will mostly be in a Perl/PHP/Python program.
> 
> If I'm using MythTV, or Wordpress, I'll be using, well. MythTV or Wordpress.
> 
> On occasion I'll use the CLI 'mysql' prorgram to fix small things, or a GUI frontend if MythTV has some bugs I need to go in and fix manually.
> 
> This is the case regardless of OS. It's all about what you need to do.
> 
> 
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
>> Greetings
>> 
>> Just looking into how to use a database like Postgresql.
>> 
>> On the other side they use front end programs.
>> 
>> What is a 'normal' or common approach in the linux world?
>> 
>> TIA
>> 
>> Dee
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 00:52:04 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 00:52:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Subject: Re:  Get it in writing
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtY0o9barAiJUDciB7Cr7BBrokusmSrzwLcHMGTPNP+gw@mail.gmail.com>

Justin Krejci writes:

> Sigh...

That's a good idea about telling them to look up the chat logs.
I guess I can still get it in writing.  Thanks.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - Usain Bolt's middle name?  St. Leo
http://webEbenezer.net
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 16 07:08:57 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:08:57 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151926450.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151926450.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <20160816120857.GA2679@nobelware.com>

> Pet Peeve: I miss the olden days when we'd all talk about Linux. GET OFF 
> MY LAWN!!!
>

I am with this guy.

I never understood the obsession of checking the speeds. Never done it.
Yes, CL sucks.
 

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Aug 16 07:19:43 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 07:19:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <20160816120857.GA2679@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151926450.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <20160816120857.GA2679@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608160719040.21778@cockerel.yaron.org>

Well, you *should* test your speed occasionally, just to make sure your 
ISP isn't overcharging you.

Other than that, I agree with your agreeing with me.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2016, Iznogoud wrote:

>> Pet Peeve: I miss the olden days when we'd all talk about Linux. GET OFF
>> MY LAWN!!!
>>
>
> I am with this guy.
>
> I never understood the obsession of checking the speeds. Never done it.
> Yes, CL sucks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From lkateley at kateley.com  Tue Aug 16 07:25:36 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 07:25:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <1ad26fd6-8473-65cb-135f-87287dfc6680@kateley.com>

rt


On 8/15/16 7:25 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> Pet peeve: OT responses in on topic threads :)
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> This was 2010. More than 6 years ago. This was FTTN, not DSL per say
>> Pet peeve: it's not "Per say", it's "Per Se". It is a Latin phrase.
>>
>> --
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 16 09:28:57 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:28:57 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608160719040.21778@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CABWFOjtCrDJDYU9HW2RZDmZZFi102fHzU4xqK2FuuSy0yyJHSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <276C0176-CD00-459F-B583-104948126005@cwis.biz>
 <22542a58-ba12-692c-c939-9d60cdc9880f@meltel.net>
 <CAORhBqwa4a6mKpfRMh78HyGqjT0t8VWzBNazqs=Qm1Z5aWRNYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <EE9EBD68-8974-401B-BD79-CDB80CE4DFBB@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151913270.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <7CCBE086-4330-42C5-8E7E-B92511100E75@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608151926450.21064@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <20160816120857.GA2679@nobelware.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608160719040.21778@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <20160816142857.GA2842@nobelware.com>

> Well, you *should* test your speed occasionally, just to make sure your 
> ISP isn't overcharging you.
> 
> Other than that, I agree with your agreeing with me.
>

Agreed. Here is what happened with me. I, very early in the process, realized
that CL (Qwest back then) was going to be acting up, circa 2002. So I got the
cheapest DSL service and _never_ went for any upgrade or special offer...
I am at $39.99 and that is it. They have been begging me to change because they
have to change hardware, and they maintain hardware on the street just for me.
I pay more than I should, probably.

I am "this close" to having no internet at home; it does not make me a better
person.


From lkateley at kateley.com  Tue Aug 16 09:47:41 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:47:41 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
Message-ID: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>

With all these threads today was hoping you all could help.

I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of cable. I want to move 
to all digital content. We have tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. 
looking for alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they can't 
live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can get espn streaming but 
need the big 2 before we can cut the cord. Any ideas?

linda


From lkateley at kateley.com  Tue Aug 16 09:43:26 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:43:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CALkoPAosVNuqQcvYqFKrsqP-d0Udfm19ieOVX8C0LfCSTZm6Yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>
 <CALkoPAosVNuqQcvYqFKrsqP-d0Udfm19ieOVX8C0LfCSTZm6Yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <090acd1f-03f4-c376-161e-65c0d7f2ecbe@kateley.com>

I really like cl compared to the alternatives, had comcast for like 20 
minutes and watched as they dropped spyware on my system..

So here is a funny little glitch. When they were installing my 1g they 
saw that someone else was using my credentials. Solution, close the 
account and start a new one to flush the old creds. I had paid in full 
for cl and my direct tv. Anyways long story short I now get 3 bills, one 
for old account, one for new account and one for directv. I know I will 
have to block out like 4 hours to get it fixed, so they are all sitting 
on my desk...

linda


On 8/15/16 8:38 PM, Kelly Williams wrote:
> I have had better luck with CL then my local provider, CL fixes things 
> faster than HTC, CL has better speeds, and if CL goes down its like 
> 3-10 minutes. HTC goes down its more like a day they are down..
>
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com 
> <mailto:jus at krytosvirus.com>> wrote:
>
>     I had a similar experience but having to do with fees connected to
>     my moving from one address to another. After 8 or 9 phone calls
>     and still not getting service activated on the scheduled move in
>     date (or even the next couple of days) I did get a fee that we had
>     agreed to beforehand would not happen. After numerous more calls
>     and lots of them arguing they had no record of any such agreement
>     (the supervisor I had spoken to before the move claimed there
>     would be a note on my account) I was finally fed up. I told them,
>     "I know you record all phone calls so I demand you dig up all of
>     the calls with me on these dates." I proceeded to give them the
>     multiple dates I had logged my phone calls on. They reluctantly
>     agreed to do this but said it could take up to a couple of days to
>     do. The next morning (or maybe it was even later that same day)
>     they called me back and decided it was easier and likely way
>     cheaper to just refund me all of the fees and other crap they
>     tacked onto my account, including a new modem rental that I
>     specifically told them I don't want. I said, "if you want the
>     modem back you better provide me a shipping label or else send
>     someone to come get it at my convenience."  They eventually caved
>     on all points.
>
>     At this point my plan is to never make any changes with them as
>     they always screw something up on every change.
>
>     This is, by far, superior to my experiences with Comcast who are
>     now forbidden from ever attaching their network to my house (TV
>     and internet both).
>
>     Sigh... At least I can run Linux and stuff and have been windows
>     free on my laptops and workstations for a long time now. Dealing
>     with windows is like dealing with CenturyLink, you have to pay an
>     extra hidden fee that is just waiting to give you a bad day,
>     seemingly on purpose.
>
>     Still running Linux Mint on my laptop and workstation to much
>     satisfaction.
>
>
>
>
>
>     -------- Original message --------
>     From: Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz
>     <mailto:ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>>
>     Date: 8/15/16 4:00 PM (GMT-06:00)
>     To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>     Cc: cialug at cialug.org <mailto:cialug at cialug.org>
>     Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
>
>     I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay
>     a penny after the first weekend when only their speed test met the
>     speed expectations.
>
>     I got my $250 back for the installation.
>
>     Twice.
>
>     It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to
>     abide by the agreement.
>
>>     On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:woodbrian77 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50
>>     discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
>>     and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only
>>     give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all
>>     that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
>>     terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I
>>     can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
>>     avoid the same mistake.
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Brian
>>     Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
>>     http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 10:03:16 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:03:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>

kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here for you. i use this
for my kids and it has sports channels.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:

> With all these threads today was hoping you all could help.
>
> I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of cable. I want to move
> to all digital content. We have tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but..
> looking for alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they can't live
> without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can get espn streaming but need the
> big 2 before we can cut the cord. Any ideas?
>
> linda
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 10:06:34 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:06:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>

also it makes finding content easy compared to going to something online at
syfy.com etc. my 4 year old went through the addon channels and found vimeo
and a bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig man face
and video editing. a good teacher shows them where to look, not what to
see....

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here for you. i use
> this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com>
> wrote:
>
>> With all these threads today was hoping you all could help.
>>
>> I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of cable. I want to move
>> to all digital content. We have tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but..
>> looking for alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they can't live
>> without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can get espn streaming but need the
>> big 2 before we can cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>
>> linda
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 10:46:24 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:46:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>

cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on dvr; it is
hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda. i want to get rid of
cable too, but the wife says it is easy to point the remote at the tv and
have the content picked out in the traditional format. i see that it will
work just fine without it; the hard part is finding what really interests
you in a sea of options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> also it makes finding content easy compared to going to something online
> at syfy.com etc. my 4 year old went through the addon channels and found
> vimeo and a bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig man
> face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where to look, not what
> to see....
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here for you. i use
>> this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> With all these threads today was hoping you all could help.
>>>
>>> I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of cable. I want to move
>>> to all digital content. We have tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but..
>>> looking for alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they can't live
>>> without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can get espn streaming but need the
>>> big 2 before we can cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>>
>>> linda
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Tue Aug 16 10:49:34 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:49:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>

I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!

linda


On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on dvr; 
> it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda. i want to 
> get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to point the remote 
> at the tv and have the content picked out in the traditional format. i 
> see that it will work just fine without it; the hard part is finding 
> what really interests you in a sea of options as opposed to XYZ show 
> starts at 7pm...
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes 
> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     also it makes finding content easy compared to going to something
>     online at syfy.com <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year old went
>     through the addon channels and found vimeo and a bunch of videos
>     on how to make films including making a pig man face and video
>     editing. a good teacher shows them where to look, not what to see....
>
>     On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>     <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here for
>         you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>
>         On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley
>         <lkateley at kateley.com <mailto:lkateley at kateley.com>> wrote:
>
>             With all these threads today was hoping you all could help.
>
>             I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of cable.
>             I want to move to all digital content. We have tv/movies
>             mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for alternatives
>             for sports. 3 boys in my house and they can't live without
>             sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can get espn streaming but
>             need the big 2 before we can cut the cord. Any ideas?
>
>             linda
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>

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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Aug 16 14:35:33 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:35:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <090acd1f-03f4-c376-161e-65c0d7f2ecbe@kateley.com>
References: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>
 <CALkoPAosVNuqQcvYqFKrsqP-d0Udfm19ieOVX8C0LfCSTZm6Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <090acd1f-03f4-c376-161e-65c0d7f2ecbe@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <CF8D06C5-C3B0-4E08-B0B3-313B776CF1AD@cwis.biz>

The only way Comcast puts anything on your system is you INSTALLED it yourself.

Sounds like a mistake was made, Linda? not something Comcast did directly. 

Sounds to me that CL is no better than Comcast. 
I don?t like Charter here in Rochester but it?s functional. 



> On Aug 16, 2016, at 9:43 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:
> 
> I really like cl compared to the alternatives, had comcast for like 20 minutes and watched as they dropped spyware on my system..
> So here is a funny little glitch. When they were installing my 1g they saw that someone else was using my credentials. Solution, close the account and start a new one to flush the old creds. I had paid in full for cl and my direct tv. Anyways long story short I now get 3 bills, one for old account, one for new account and one for directv. I know I will have to block out like 4 hours to get it fixed, so they are all sitting on my desk...
> 
> linda
> 
> On 8/15/16 8:38 PM, Kelly Williams wrote:
>> I have had better luck with CL then my local provider, CL fixes things faster than HTC, CL has better speeds, and if CL goes down its like 3-10 minutes. HTC goes down its more like a day they are down..
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com <mailto:jus at krytosvirus.com>> wrote:
>> I had a similar experience but having to do with fees connected to my moving from one address to another. After 8 or 9 phone calls and still not getting service activated on the scheduled move in date (or even the next couple of days) I did get a fee that we had agreed to beforehand would not happen. After numerous more calls and lots of them arguing they had no record of any such agreement (the supervisor I had spoken to before the move claimed there would be a note on my account) I was finally fed up. I told them, "I know you record all phone calls so I demand you dig up all of the calls with me on these dates." I proceeded to give them the multiple dates I had logged my phone calls on. They reluctantly agreed to do this but said it could take up to a couple of days to do. The next morning (or maybe it was even later that same day) they called me back and decided it was easier and likely way cheaper to just refund me all of the fees and other crap they tacked onto my account, including a new modem rental that I specifically told them I don't want. I said, "if you want the modem back you better provide me a shipping label or else send someone to come get it at my convenience."  They eventually caved on all points.
>> 
>> At this point my plan is to never make any changes with them as they always screw something up on every change. 
>> 
>> This is, by far, superior to my experiences with Comcast who are now forbidden from ever attaching their network to my house (TV and internet both). 
>> 
>> Sigh... At least I can run Linux and stuff and have been windows free on my laptops and workstations for a long time now. Dealing with windows is like dealing with CenturyLink, you have to pay an extra hidden fee that is just waiting to give you a bad day, seemingly on purpose.
>> 
>> Still running Linux Mint on my laptop and workstation to much satisfaction. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz <mailto:ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>>
>> Date: 8/15/16 4:00 PM (GMT-06:00)
>> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>> Cc: cialug at cialug.org <mailto:cialug at cialug.org>
>> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
>> 
>> I fought with Century Link over the FTTN speeds and refused to pay a penny after the first weekend when only their speed test met the speed expectations. 
>> 
>> I got my $250 back for the installation.
>> 
>> Twice.
>> 
>> It helps to argue and work on breach of contract to get them to abide by the agreement.
>> 
>>> On Aug 15, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com <mailto:woodbrian77 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I signed up recently with CenturyLink and we agreed to a $50 
>>> discount off the price of the modem.  Now I got the first bill
>>> and no discount.  I called them and they said they could only 
>>> give me a $25 discount -- something about how that was all 
>>> that was available at the time I signed up.  I didn't get the
>>> terms we agreed to in writing so I just said OK.  But at least I 
>>> can let others know of what happened and maybe help you
>>> avoid the same mistake.  
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Brian
>>> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
>>> http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Aug 16 15:04:40 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:04:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <CF8D06C5-C3B0-4E08-B0B3-313B776CF1AD@cwis.biz>
References: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>
 <CALkoPAosVNuqQcvYqFKrsqP-d0Udfm19ieOVX8C0LfCSTZm6Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <090acd1f-03f4-c376-161e-65c0d7f2ecbe@kateley.com>
 <CF8D06C5-C3B0-4E08-B0B3-313B776CF1AD@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608161502400.22324@cockerel.yaron.org>

On Tue, 16 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> The only way Comcast puts anything on your system is you INSTALLED it
> yourself.


Nowadays they probably just send you a CD or something, but in The Olden 
Days they /definitely/ tried to install stuff on your system. This is back 
in the days when they expected your modem to be connected to a single 
computer rather than a router, too. So if you left the tech alone and 
didn't sit there to make sure you know what they're doing (and stop them 
from such shenanigans) they may well have install stuff on your "main" 
computer!

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Aug 16 16:01:52 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:01:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608161502400.22324@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>
 <CALkoPAosVNuqQcvYqFKrsqP-d0Udfm19ieOVX8C0LfCSTZm6Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <090acd1f-03f4-c376-161e-65c0d7f2ecbe@kateley.com>
 <CF8D06C5-C3B0-4E08-B0B3-313B776CF1AD@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608161502400.22324@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <9F7B8BF0-D42B-451C-AF1A-A33111374C8F@cwis.biz>

As someone that provides remote technical support to (some select) private parties you should never leave them alone. Ever.


> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:04 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
>> The only way Comcast puts anything on your system is you INSTALLED it
>> yourself.
> 
> 
> Nowadays they probably just send you a CD or something, but in The Olden Days they /definitely/ tried to install stuff on your system. This is back in the days when they expected your modem to be connected to a single computer rather than a router, too. So if you left the tech alone and didn't sit there to make sure you know what they're doing (and stop them from such shenanigans) they may well have install stuff on your "main" computer!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From tclug at freakzilla.com  Tue Aug 16 16:18:22 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:18:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Get it in writing
In-Reply-To: <9F7B8BF0-D42B-451C-AF1A-A33111374C8F@cwis.biz>
References: <1b5tlp7b6qae2gdbnh95xfnu.1471311184936@email.android.com>
 <CALkoPAosVNuqQcvYqFKrsqP-d0Udfm19ieOVX8C0LfCSTZm6Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <090acd1f-03f4-c376-161e-65c0d7f2ecbe@kateley.com>
 <CF8D06C5-C3B0-4E08-B0B3-313B776CF1AD@cwis.biz>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608161502400.22324@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <9F7B8BF0-D42B-451C-AF1A-A33111374C8F@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1608161617290.22324@cockerel.yaron.org>

There are two kinds of people I won't leave alone with my machines: the 
ones who wouldn't know what the heck they're doing... and the ones who 
would.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> As someone that provides remote technical support to (some select) private parties you should never leave them alone. Ever.
>
>
>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 3:04 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2016, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>
>>> The only way Comcast puts anything on your system is you INSTALLED it
>>> yourself.
>>
>>
>> Nowadays they probably just send you a CD or something, but in The Olden Days they /definitely/ tried to install stuff on your system. This is back in the days when they expected your modem to be connected to a single computer rather than a router, too. So if you left the tech alone and didn't sit there to make sure you know what they're doing (and stop them from such shenanigans) they may well have install stuff on your "main" computer!
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From mattwj2002 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 17:27:16 2016
From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matthew Junk)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:27:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>

Just a thought....

Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?

http://sling.tv/

and

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/

Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot of 
different platforms.

Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.

Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of 
good streaming content.

Those are my thoughts.

I hope it helps.

Thanks,

Matt

On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>
> I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!
>
> linda
>
>
> On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>> cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on dvr; 
>> it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda. i want 
>> to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to point the 
>> remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the traditional 
>> format. i see that it will work just fine without it; the hard part 
>> is finding what really interests you in a sea of options as opposed 
>> to XYZ show starts at 7pm...
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes 
>> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     also it makes finding content easy compared to going to something
>>     online at syfy.com <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year old went
>>     through the addon channels and found vimeo and a bunch of videos
>>     on how to make films including making a pig man face and video
>>     editing. a good teacher shows them where to look, not what to see....
>>
>>     On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>     <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here for
>>         you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>>
>>         On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley
>>         <lkateley at kateley.com <mailto:lkateley at kateley.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             With all these threads today was hoping you all could help.
>>
>>             I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of cable.
>>             I want to move to all digital content. We have tv/movies
>>             mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for alternatives
>>             for sports. 3 boys in my house and they can't live
>>             without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can get espn
>>             streaming but need the big 2 before we can cut the cord.
>>             Any ideas?
>>
>>             linda
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From lkateley at kateley.com  Tue Aug 16 21:11:26 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:11:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>

Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4

Still need to figure out how to get sports

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just a thought....
>
> Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?
>
> http://sling.tv/
>
> and
>
> https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/
>
> Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot of
> different platforms.
>
> Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.
>
> Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of good
> streaming content.
>
> Those are my thoughts.
>
> I hope it helps.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
> On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>
> I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!
>
> linda
>
> On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
> cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on dvr; it
> is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda. i want to get rid
> of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to point the remote at the tv
> and have the content picked out in the traditional format. i see that it
> will work just fine without it; the hard part is finding what really
> interests you in a sea of options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> also it makes finding content easy compared to going to something online
>> at syfy.com etc. my 4 year old went through the addon channels and found
>> vimeo and a bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig man
>> face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where to look, not what
>> to see....
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here for you. i use
>>> this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With all these threads today was hoping you all could help.
>>>>
>>>> I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of cable. I want to
>>>> move to all digital content. We have tv/movies mostly taken care of ...
>>>> but.. looking for alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they
>>>> can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can get espn streaming
>>>> but need the big 2 before we can cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>> linda
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
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From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com  Tue Aug 16 23:18:42 2016
From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:18:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>

OpenElec on a Raspberry pi 2 or 3 will get you sports.  My son & I use 
one all the time.  Love it.

On 8/16/2016 9:11 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
> Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4
>
> Still need to figure out how to get sports
>
> On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com
> <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Just a thought....
>
>     Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?
>
>     http://sling.tv/
>
>     and
>
>     https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/
>     <https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/>
>
>     Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot
>     of different platforms.
>
>     Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.
>
>     Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of
>     good streaming content.
>
>     Those are my thoughts.
>
>     I hope it helps.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Matt
>
>     On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>>     I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!
>>
>>     linda
>>
>>
>>     On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>     cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on
>>>     dvr; it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda.
>>>     i want to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to
>>>     point the remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the
>>>     traditional format. i see that it will work just fine without it;
>>>     the hard part is finding what really interests you in a sea of
>>>     options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...
>>>
>>>     On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>     <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>     <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         also it makes finding content easy compared to going to
>>>         something online at syfy.com <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year
>>>         old went through the addon channels and found vimeo and a
>>>         bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig
>>>         man face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where
>>>         to look, not what to see....
>>>
>>>         On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>         <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>         <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here
>>>             for you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>>>
>>>             On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley
>>>             <lkateley at kateley.com
>>>             <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com');>>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 With all these threads today was hoping you all could
>>>                 help.
>>>
>>>                 I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of
>>>                 cable. I want to move to all digital content. We have
>>>                 tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for
>>>                 alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they
>>>                 can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can
>>>                 get espn streaming but need the big 2 before we can
>>>                 cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>>
>>>                 linda
>>>
>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>                 <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>                 <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>     <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From trillium at riseup.net  Wed Aug 17 10:11:45 2016
From: trillium at riseup.net (trillium)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:11:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>

i can vouch for the awesomeness of sling tv as a cord cutter with fiber.

they recently announced they'll be getting nfl network and redzone as add-on packages before the next season, so that's one sport down: http://blog.sling.com/announcements/sling-tv-to-launch-nfl-network-and-nfl-redzone/

as for nba, the league does offer league pass for streaming. it's spendy and a subpar product, based on the times i used it a couple years ago.

-cassie

> On Aug 16, 2016, at 23:18, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OpenElec on a Raspberry pi 2 or 3 will get you sports.  My son & I use one all the time.  Love it.
> 
>> On 8/16/2016 9:11 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>> Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4
>> 
>> Still need to figure out how to get sports
>> 
>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>    Just a thought....
>> 
>>    Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?
>> 
>>    http://sling.tv/
>> 
>>    and
>> 
>>    https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/
>>    <https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/>
>> 
>>    Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot
>>    of different platforms.
>> 
>>    Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.
>> 
>>    Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of
>>    good streaming content.
>> 
>>    Those are my thoughts.
>> 
>>    I hope it helps.
>> 
>>    Thanks,
>> 
>>    Matt
>> 
>>>    On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>> 
>>>    I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!
>>> 
>>>    linda
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>    On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>    cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on
>>>>    dvr; it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda.
>>>>    i want to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to
>>>>    point the remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the
>>>>    traditional format. i see that it will work just fine without it;
>>>>    the hard part is finding what really interests you in a sea of
>>>>    options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...
>>>> 
>>>>    On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>    <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        also it makes finding content easy compared to going to
>>>>        something online at syfy.com <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year
>>>>        old went through the addon channels and found vimeo and a
>>>>        bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig
>>>>        man face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where
>>>>        to look, not what to see....
>>>> 
>>>>        On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>        <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>>        <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>            kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here
>>>>            for you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>>>> 
>>>>            On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley
>>>>            <lkateley at kateley.com
>>>>            <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com');>>
>>>>            wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>                With all these threads today was hoping you all could
>>>>                help.
>>>> 
>>>>                I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of
>>>>                cable. I want to move to all digital content. We have
>>>>                tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for
>>>>                alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they
>>>>                can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can
>>>>                get espn streaming but need the big 2 before we can
>>>>                cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>>> 
>>>>                linda
>>>> 
>>>>                _______________________________________________
>>>>                TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>                tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>                <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>>                http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>                <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>    tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>    http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>    <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Wed Aug 17 10:26:33 2016
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:26:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>

NFL Network just showed up on my $20 Sling Blue package.  It doesn't say
its a free trial. 

On 2016-08-17 10:11, trillium wrote:

> i can vouch for the awesomeness of sling tv as a cord cutter with fiber. 
> 
> they recently announced they'll be getting nfl network and redzone as add-on packages before the next season, so that's one sport down: http://blog.sling.com/announcements/sling-tv-to-launch-nfl-network-and-nfl-redzone/ 
> 
> as for nba, the league does offer league pass for streaming. it's spendy and a subpar product, based on the times i used it a couple years ago. 
> 
> -cassie 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2016, at 23:18, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OpenElec on a Raspberry pi 2 or 3 will get you sports.  My son & I use one all the time.  Love it.
> 
> On 8/16/2016 9:11 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
> Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4 Still need to figure out how to get sports On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>> wrote:    Just a thought....    Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?    http://sling.tv/    and    https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/    <https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/>    Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot    of different platforms.    Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.    Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of    good streaming content.    Those are my thoughts.    I hope it helps.    Thanks,    Matt    On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:    I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!

> 

>> linda

> 

> 

>> On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:

> cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on

> dvr; it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda.

> i want to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to

> point the remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the

> traditional format. i see that it will work just fine without it;

> the hard part is finding what really interests you in a sea of

> options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...

>> 

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes

> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:

>> 

> also it makes finding content easy compared to going to

> something online at syfy.com [1] <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year

> old went through the addon channels and found vimeo and a

> bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig

> man face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where

> to look, not what to see....

>> 

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes

> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:

>> 

> kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here

> for you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.

>> 

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley

> <lkateley at kateley.com

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com');>>

> wrote:

>> 

> With all these threads today was hoping you all could

> help.

>> 

> I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of

> cable. I want to move to all digital content. We have

> tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for

> alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they

> can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can

> get espn streaming but need the big 2 before we can

> cut the cord. Any ideas?

>> 

> linda

>> 

> _______________________________________________

> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>

> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

>> _______________________________________________

>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>

>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

>> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>

> _______________________________________________

> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

-- 
Kathryn
Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
http://womensfooty.com 

Links:
------
[1] http://syfy.com
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From trillium at riseup.net  Wed Aug 17 10:58:34 2016
From: trillium at riseup.net (trillium)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:58:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
Message-ID: <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>

Awesome! That blog post implied a pricing difference, but that's great if they're including it in the blue package.

-cassie

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 10:26, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com> wrote:
> 
> NFL Network just showed up on my $20 Sling Blue package.  It doesn't say its a free trial.
> 
>> On 2016-08-17 10:11, trillium wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> i can vouch for the awesomeness of sling tv as a cord cutter with fiber.
>>  
>> they recently announced they'll be getting nfl network and redzone as add-on packages before the next season, so that's one sport down: http://blog.sling.com/announcements/sling-tv-to-launch-nfl-network-and-nfl-redzone/
>>  
>> as for nba, the league does offer league pass for streaming. it's spendy and a subpar product, based on the times i used it a couple years ago.
>>  
>> -cassie
>> 
>>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 23:18, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> OpenElec on a Raspberry pi 2 or 3 will get you sports.  My son & I use one all the time.  Love it.
>>> 
>>>> On 8/16/2016 9:11 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>> Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4
>>>> Still need to figure out how to get sports
>>>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>    Just a thought....
>>>>    Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?
>>>>    http://sling.tv/
>>>>    and
>>>>    https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/
>>>>    <https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/>
>>>>    Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot
>>>>    of different platforms.
>>>>    Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.
>>>>    Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of
>>>>    good streaming content.
>>>>    Those are my thoughts.
>>>>    I hope it helps.
>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>    Matt
>>>>>    On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>    I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!
>>>>>    linda
>>>>>>    On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>>    cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on
>>>>>>    dvr; it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda.
>>>>>>    i want to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to
>>>>>>    point the remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the
>>>>>>    traditional format. i see that it will work just fine without it;
>>>>>>    the hard part is finding what really interests you in a sea of
>>>>>>    options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...
>>>>>>    On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>>>    <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>>>        also it makes finding content easy compared to going to
>>>>>>        something online at syfy.com <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year
>>>>>>        old went through the addon channels and found vimeo and a
>>>>>>        bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig
>>>>>>        man face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where
>>>>>>        to look, not what to see....
>>>>>>        On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>>>        <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>>>>        <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>>>            kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here
>>>>>>            for you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>>>>>>            On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley
>>>>>>            <lkateley at kateley.com
>>>>>>            <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com');>>
>>>>>>            wrote:
>>>>>>                With all these threads today was hoping you all could
>>>>>>                help.
>>>>>>                I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of
>>>>>>                cable. I want to move to all digital content. We have
>>>>>>                tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for
>>>>>>                alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they
>>>>>>                can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can
>>>>>>                get espn streaming but need the big 2 before we can
>>>>>>                cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>>>>>                linda
>>>>>>                _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>                tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>                <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>>>>                http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>                <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>    TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>    tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>>>    http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>    <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> -- 
> Kathryn
> Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
> http://womensfooty.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Wed Aug 17 11:08:03 2016
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:08:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
 <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <ff99218c040eb47a09d7ba7bb04a0458@flyballdogs.com>

Redzone will definitely be in an add on package. But NFL Network is on
Sling Blue. 

On 2016-08-17 10:58, trillium wrote:

> Awesome! That blog post implied a pricing difference, but that's great if they're including it in the blue package. 
> 
> -cassie 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2016, at 10:26, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com> wrote:
> 
> NFL Network just showed up on my $20 Sling Blue package.  It doesn't say its a free trial. 
> 
> On 2016-08-17 10:11, trillium wrote: 
> 
> i can vouch for the awesomeness of sling tv as a cord cutter with fiber. 
> 
> they recently announced they'll be getting nfl network and redzone as add-on packages before the next season, so that's one sport down: http://blog.sling.com/announcements/sling-tv-to-launch-nfl-network-and-nfl-redzone/ 
> 
> as for nba, the league does offer league pass for streaming. it's spendy and a subpar product, based on the times i used it a couple years ago. 
> 
> -cassie 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2016, at 23:18, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OpenElec on a Raspberry pi 2 or 3 will get you sports.  My son & I use one all the time.  Love it.
> 
> On 8/16/2016 9:11 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
> Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4 Still need to figure out how to get sports On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>> wrote:    Just a thought....    Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?    http://sling.tv/    and    https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/    <https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/>    Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot    of different platforms.    Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.    Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of    good streaming content.    Those are my thoughts.    I hope it helps.    Thanks,    Matt    On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:    I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!

>> linda

>> On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:

> cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on

> dvr; it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda.

> i want to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to

> point the remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the

> traditional format. i see that it will work just fine without it;

> the hard part is finding what really interests you in a sea of

> options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes

> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:

> also it makes finding content easy compared to going to

> something online at syfy.com [1] <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year

> old went through the addon channels and found vimeo and a

> bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig

> man face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where

> to look, not what to see....

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes

> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:

> kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here

> for you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley

> <lkateley at kateley.com

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com');>>

> wrote:

> With all these threads today was hoping you all could

> help.

> I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of

> cable. I want to move to all digital content. We have

> tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for

> alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they

> can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can

> get espn streaming but need the big 2 before we can

> cut the cord. Any ideas?

> linda

> _______________________________________________

> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>

> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>

>> _______________________________________________

>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>

>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

>> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>

> _______________________________________________

> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

> tclug-list at mn-linux.org

> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
 _______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

-- 
Kathryn
Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
http://womensfooty.com 

> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 

-- 
Kathryn
Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
http://womensfooty.com 

Links:
------
[1] http://syfy.com
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Wed Aug 17 11:27:10 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:27:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
 <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>

Actually I worry that it's just NFL network(the channel) and redzone(the 
channel). NFL Network is just show after show talking about NFL. Redzone 
is cool because it shows any game going on that is in the redzone.

Once the season starts, can you let me know if you get the games? Hate 
to admit this here, but we are packer fans and we figure we save about 
$120 a month not having to go out to a bar to watch games :)


On 8/17/16 10:58 AM, trillium wrote:
> Awesome! That blog post implied a pricing difference, but that's great 
> if they're including it in the blue package.
>
> -cassie
>
> On Aug 17, 2016, at 10:26, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com 
> <mailto:kjh at flyballdogs.com>> wrote:
>
>> NFL Network just showed up on my $20 Sling Blue package.  It doesn't 
>> say its a free trial.
>>
>> On 2016-08-17 10:11, trillium wrote:
>>
>>> i can vouch for the awesomeness of sling tv as a cord cutter with fiber.
>>> they recently announced they'll be getting nfl network and redzone 
>>> as add-on packages before the next season, so that's one sport down: 
>>> http://blog.sling.com/announcements/sling-tv-to-launch-nfl-network-and-nfl-redzone/
>>> as for nba, the league does offer league pass for streaming. it's 
>>> spendy and a subpar product, based on the times i used it a couple 
>>> years ago.
>>> -cassie
>>>
>>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 23:18, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:mr.chew.baka at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OpenElec on a Raspberry pi 2 or 3 will get you sports.  My son & I 
>>>> use one all the time.  Love it.
>>>>
>>>> On 8/16/2016 9:11 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>> Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4
>>>>> Still need to figure out how to get sports
>>>>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>
>>>>> <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>    Just a thought....
>>>>>    Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?
>>>>> http://sling.tv/
>>>>>    and
>>>>> https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/
>>>>>    <https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/>
>>>>>    Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot
>>>>>    of different platforms.
>>>>>    Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.
>>>>>    Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a 
>>>>> lot of
>>>>>    good streaming content.
>>>>>    Those are my thoughts.
>>>>>    I hope it helps.
>>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>>    Matt
>>>>>    On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>>    I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!
>>>>>>    linda
>>>>>>    On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>>>    cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on
>>>>>>>    dvr; it is hit or miss. take control of your entertainment linda.
>>>>>>>    i want to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to
>>>>>>>    point the remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the
>>>>>>>    traditional format. i see that it will work just fine without it;
>>>>>>>    the hard part is finding what really interests you in a sea of
>>>>>>>    options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...
>>>>>>>    On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>>>>    <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>');>> wrote:
>>>>>>>        also it makes finding content easy compared to going to
>>>>>>>        something online at syfy.com <http://syfy.com> 
>>>>>>> <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year
>>>>>>>        old went through the addon channels and found vimeo and a
>>>>>>>        bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig
>>>>>>>        man face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where
>>>>>>>        to look, not what to see....
>>>>>>>        On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>>>>        <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>        <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>');>> wrote:
>>>>>>>            kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here
>>>>>>>            for you. i use this for my kids and it has sports 
>>>>>>> channels.
>>>>>>>            On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley
>>>>>>>            <lkateley at kateley.com <mailto:lkateley at kateley.com>
>>>>>>>            <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com 
>>>>>>> <mailto:lkateley at kateley.com>');>>
>>>>>>>            wrote:
>>>>>>>                With all these threads today was hoping you all could
>>>>>>>                help.
>>>>>>>                I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of
>>>>>>>                cable. I want to move to all digital content. We have
>>>>>>>                tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for
>>>>>>>                alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they
>>>>>>>                can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can
>>>>>>>                get espn streaming but need the big 2 before we can
>>>>>>>                cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>>>>>>                linda
>>>>>>>                _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>                TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>>                <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>>>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>');>
>>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>                <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>');>
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>    <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Kathryn
>> Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
>> http://womensfooty.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From trillium at riseup.net  Wed Aug 17 11:52:03 2016
From: trillium at riseup.net (trillium)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:52:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
 <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
 <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <3831D9F3-6834-48BE-BFAE-EB76BD2D307F@riseup.net>

Sling must be adding the NFL stuff as we're speaking. Redzone appears to be in the $5 sports extra add-on for the Blue package. 

I admittedly don't watch NFL though, so I don't know what channels show what games, etc.

-cassie

> On Aug 17, 2016, at 11:27, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:
> 
> Actually I worry that it's just NFL network(the channel) and redzone(the channel). NFL Network is just show after show talking about NFL. Redzone is cool because it shows any game going on that is in the redzone. 
> Once the season starts, can you let me know if you get the games? Hate to admit this here, but we are packer fans and we figure we save about $120 a month not having to go out to a bar to watch games :)
> 
>> On 8/17/16 10:58 AM, trillium wrote:
>> Awesome! That blog post implied a pricing difference, but that's great if they're including it in the blue package.
>> 
>> -cassie
>> 
>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 10:26, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> NFL Network just showed up on my $20 Sling Blue package.  It doesn't say its a free trial.
>>> 
>>>> On 2016-08-17 10:11, trillium wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> i can vouch for the awesomeness of sling tv as a cord cutter with fiber.
>>>>  
>>>> they recently announced they'll be getting nfl network and redzone as add-on packages before the next season, so that's one sport down: http://blog.sling.com/announcements/sling-tv-to-launch-nfl-network-and-nfl-redzone/
>>>>  
>>>> as for nba, the league does offer league pass for               streaming. it's spendy and a subpar product, based on the times i used it a couple years ago.
>>>>  
>>>> -cassie
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 23:18, B-o-B De Mars <mr.chew.baka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> OpenElec on a Raspberry pi 2 or 3 will get you sports.  My son & I use one all the time.  Love it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/16/2016 9:11 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>> Yea we have like every device Apple TV fire ps4
>>>>>> Still need to figure out how to get sports
>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Matthew Junk <mattwj2002 at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:mattwj2002 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>    Just a thought....
>>>>>>    Has anyone looked into Sling TV or Playstation Vue?
>>>>>>    http://sling.tv/
>>>>>>    and
>>>>>>    https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/
>>>>>>    <https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/vue/>
>>>>>>    Not exactly Linux friendly, but Sling TV especially works on a lot
>>>>>>    of different platforms.
>>>>>>    Also, don't forget there is over the air TV aka TV antenna.
>>>>>>    Roku, Fire TV, or Android TV (ie Nexus Players) also offers a lot of
>>>>>>    good streaming content.
>>>>>>    Those are my thoughts.
>>>>>>    I hope it helps.
>>>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>>>    Matt
>>>>>>>    On 08/16/2016 10:49 AM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>>>    I just need packer football games and I am gone from cable!
>>>>>>>    linda
>>>>>>>>    On 8/16/16 10:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>>>>    cable is a billion dollar industry, but try and record a show on
>>>>>>>>    dvr; it is hit or miss. take control of your                         entertainment linda.
>>>>>>>>    i want to get rid of cable too, but the wife says it is easy to
>>>>>>>>    point the remote at the tv and have the content picked out in the
>>>>>>>>    traditional format. i see that it will work just fine without it;
>>>>>>>>    the hard part is finding what really interests you in a sea of
>>>>>>>>    options as opposed to XYZ show starts at 7pm...
>>>>>>>>    On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>>>>>    <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>        also it makes finding content easy compared to going to
>>>>>>>>        something online at syfy.com <http://syfy.com> etc. my 4 year
>>>>>>>>        old went through the addon channels and found vimeo and a
>>>>>>>>        bunch of videos on how to make films including making a pig
>>>>>>>>        man face and video editing. a good teacher shows them where
>>>>>>>>        to look, not what to see....
>>>>>>>>        On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>>>>>        <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>        <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sandwhicheyes at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>            kodi/openelec   not sure if i am on the right path here
>>>>>>>>            for you. i use this for my kids and it has sports channels.
>>>>>>>>            On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Linda Kateley
>>>>>>>>            <lkateley at kateley.com
>>>>>>>>            <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lkateley at kateley.com');>>
>>>>>>>>            wrote:
>>>>>>>>                With all these threads today was                         hoping you all could
>>>>>>>>                help.
>>>>>>>>                I just got the 1g fiber in hopes of getting rid of
>>>>>>>>                cable. I want to move to all digital content. We have
>>>>>>>>                tv/movies mostly taken care of ... but.. looking for
>>>>>>>>                alternatives for sports. 3 boys in my house and they
>>>>>>>>                can't live without sports. NFL and NBA mostly. We can
>>>>>>>>                get espn streaming but need the big 2 before we can
>>>>>>>>                cut the cord. Any ideas?
>>>>>>>>                linda
>>>>>>>>                _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>                TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>>>                tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>>>                <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>>>>>>                http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>>                <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>    TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>>    tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>>    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tclug-list at mn-linux.org');>
>>>>>>>    http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>    <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Kathryn
>>> Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
>>> http://womensfooty.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From kjh at flyballdogs.com  Wed Aug 17 15:04:03 2016
From: kjh at flyballdogs.com (Kathryn Hogg)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:04:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
 <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
 <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <b749834cf1cf6eba5b0e0752d9804c49@flyballdogs.com>

The NFL network is the home of Thursday Night football. 

Since you apparently live out of market, you will only get them locally
when they play the Vikings, are on national telecasts like Sunday Night
Football (SNF), Thursday or Monday.  Occasionally they will also be on
locally during the Vikings bye week, if CBS is carrying the game or if
Fox has a double header and they play at a different time than the
Vikings. 

This page has a pretty good overview of streaming NFL 

http://www.cutcabletoday.com/sports/nfl/ 

AFAIK, the only way for you to be guaranteed to watch every game that
your wretched team plays is to have DirectTV and sign up for Sunday
ticket.   

If you want to stream, your best option might be to sign up for NFL
gamepass but you won't be able to watch the games live.  They say on
demand but same day but I have no idea how much of a delay there will
be.   

According to
http://www.fbschedules.com/nfl-16/2016-green-bay-packers-football-schedule.php


The Packers are on NBC twice, NFL Network/CBS once, CBS twice and ESPN
once.  That leaves 10 games on Fox, one of which is against the Vikings.
  

On 2016-08-17 11:27, Linda Kateley wrote:

> Actually I worry that it's just NFL network(the channel) and redzone(the channel). NFL Network is just show after show talking about NFL. Redzone is cool because it shows any game going on that is in the redzone. 
> 
> Once the season starts, can you let me know if you get the games? Hate to admit this here, but we are packer fans and we figure we save about $120 a month not having to go out to a bar to watch games :)

-- 
Kathryn
Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
http://womensfooty.com
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Aug 18 10:25:40 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:25:40 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG lunch meeting?
In-Reply-To: <20160519190614.GA7194@nobelware.com>
References: <CAB3QoPmw9eTkimf1k6sSDycEiPGEZyq2CpZWEi9diWo3Fa95=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <572F4A74.4010204@jfoo.org> <20160511143856.GA2253@nobelware.com>
 <CAB3QoPks_SJr-e_VN0W_DewuaMTMuzr9H7LFFQP4rs3h01HMDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160513151849.GA11327@nobelware.com> <20160518032808.GB4119@nobelware.com>
 <20160519190614.GA7194@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <20160818152540.GA11736@nobelware.com>

How about another lunch meeting before the Summer is over? I'd say the week
of the State Fair would be a good one.

How is Wed the 31st or Thu the 1st?

Pizza Luce was the previous meetup spot, primarily because... great pizza and
its proximity to the parking ramp. I will be on the bike, so it does not matter
to me if we choose a different spot.


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Aug 18 10:38:55 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:38:55 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG lunch meeting?
In-Reply-To: <20160818152540.GA11736@nobelware.com>
References: <CAB3QoPmw9eTkimf1k6sSDycEiPGEZyq2CpZWEi9diWo3Fa95=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <572F4A74.4010204@jfoo.org> <20160511143856.GA2253@nobelware.com>
 <CAB3QoPks_SJr-e_VN0W_DewuaMTMuzr9H7LFFQP4rs3h01HMDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160513151849.GA11327@nobelware.com> <20160518032808.GB4119@nobelware.com>
 <20160519190614.GA7194@nobelware.com> <20160818152540.GA11736@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <0CD41207-16BA-4C0F-8F5A-35877E6F1153@cwis.biz>

I presume you mean the DOWNTOWN Minneapolis location, not one of the other 5 locations :)


> On Aug 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
> How about another lunch meeting before the Summer is over? I'd say the week
> of the State Fair would be a good one.
> 
> How is Wed the 31st or Thu the 1st?
> 
> Pizza Luce was the previous meetup spot, primarily because... great pizza and
> its proximity to the parking ramp. I will be on the bike, so it does not matter
> to me if we choose a different spot.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Aug 18 10:47:10 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:47:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] TCLUG lunch meeting?
In-Reply-To: <0CD41207-16BA-4C0F-8F5A-35877E6F1153@cwis.biz>
References: <CAB3QoPmw9eTkimf1k6sSDycEiPGEZyq2CpZWEi9diWo3Fa95=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <572F4A74.4010204@jfoo.org> <20160511143856.GA2253@nobelware.com>
 <CAB3QoPks_SJr-e_VN0W_DewuaMTMuzr9H7LFFQP4rs3h01HMDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160513151849.GA11327@nobelware.com> <20160518032808.GB4119@nobelware.com>
 <20160519190614.GA7194@nobelware.com> <20160818152540.GA11736@nobelware.com>
 <0CD41207-16BA-4C0F-8F5A-35877E6F1153@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <3F607881-54B8-4EA6-994F-4B3F01792A3D@cwis.biz>

::head shame hanging time::

I read the rest of the thread? cuz I didn?t have more email to read?

Silly silly Ryan.


> On Aug 18, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
> 
> I presume you mean the DOWNTOWN Minneapolis location, not one of the other 5 locations :)
> 
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>> 
>> How about another lunch meeting before the Summer is over? I'd say the week
>> of the State Fair would be a good one.
>> 
>> How is Wed the 31st or Thu the 1st?
>> 
>> Pizza Luce was the previous meetup spot, primarily because... great pizza and
>> its proximity to the parking ramp. I will be on the bike, so it does not matter
>> to me if we choose a different spot.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 07:21:39 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:21:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <b749834cf1cf6eba5b0e0752d9804c49@flyballdogs.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
 <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
 <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>
 <b749834cf1cf6eba5b0e0752d9804c49@flyballdogs.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHwAQRVEeND1ygz7CixUqX50ghYz-hvapN6oOfj2FBtYw@mail.gmail.com>

looking at my dvr this morning. nothing on it i want to watch. there rarely
ever is. then i start a show. it says on thing plays another. delete. start
another show. last minute cut off. no idea how it ended. cable blows. back
to my computer. did you say  Packers lol...

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com> wrote:

> The NFL network is the home of Thursday Night football.
>
> Since you apparently live out of market, you will only get them locally
> when they play the Vikings, are on national telecasts like Sunday Night
> Football (SNF), Thursday or Monday.  Occasionally they will also be on
> locally during the Vikings bye week, if CBS is carrying the game or if Fox
> has a double header and they play at a different time than the Vikings.
>
> This page has a pretty good overview of streaming NFL
>
> http://www.cutcabletoday.com/sports/nfl/
>
> AFAIK, the only way for you to be guaranteed to watch every game that your
> wretched team plays is to have DirectTV and sign up for Sunday ticket.
>
> If you want to stream, your best option might be to sign up for NFL
> gamepass but you won't be able to watch the games live.  They say on demand
> but same day but I have no idea how much of a delay there will be.
>
> According to http://www.fbschedules.com/nfl-16/2016-green-bay-packers-
> football-schedule.php
>
> The Packers are on NBC twice, NFL Network/CBS once, CBS twice and ESPN
> once.  That leaves 10 games on Fox, one of which is against the Vikings.
>
> On 2016-08-17 11:27, Linda Kateley wrote:
>
> Actually I worry that it's just NFL network(the channel) and redzone(the
> channel). NFL Network is just show after show talking about NFL. Redzone is
> cool because it shows any game going on that is in the redzone.
>
> Once the season starts, can you let me know if you get the games? Hate to
> admit this here, but we are packer fans and we figure we save about $120 a
> month not having to go out to a bar to watch games :)
>
>
> --
> Kathryn
> Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
> http://womensfooty.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Fri Aug 19 10:05:31 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:05:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHwAQRVEeND1ygz7CixUqX50ghYz-hvapN6oOfj2FBtYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
 <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
 <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>
 <b749834cf1cf6eba5b0e0752d9804c49@flyballdogs.com>
 <CA+G9TOHwAQRVEeND1ygz7CixUqX50ghYz-hvapN6oOfj2FBtYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa2fc9fc-a21c-8b88-a3be-cef211705e8f@kateley.com>

Married a packer fan. Had to convert, for the children :)


On 8/19/16 7:21 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> looking at my dvr this morning. nothing on it i want to watch. there 
> rarely ever is. then i start a show. it says on thing plays another. 
> delete. start another show. last minute cut off. no idea how it ended. 
> cable blows. back to my computer. did you say  Packers lol...
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com 
> <mailto:kjh at flyballdogs.com>> wrote:
>
>     The NFL network is the home of Thursday Night football.
>
>     Since you apparently live out of market, you will only get them
>     locally when they play the Vikings, are on national telecasts like
>     Sunday Night Football (SNF), Thursday or Monday.  Occasionally
>     they will also be on locally during the Vikings bye week, if CBS
>     is carrying the game or if Fox has a double header and they play
>     at a different time than the Vikings.
>
>     This page has a pretty good overview of streaming NFL
>
>     http://www.cutcabletoday.com/sports/nfl/
>     <http://www.cutcabletoday.com/sports/nfl/>
>
>     AFAIK, the only way for you to be guaranteed to watch every game
>     that your wretched team plays is to have DirectTV and sign up for
>     Sunday ticket.
>
>     If you want to stream, your best option might be to sign up for
>     NFL gamepass but you won't be able to watch the games live.  They
>     say on demand but same day but I have no idea how much of a delay
>     there will be.
>
>     According to
>     http://www.fbschedules.com/nfl-16/2016-green-bay-packers-football-schedule.php
>     <http://www.fbschedules.com/nfl-16/2016-green-bay-packers-football-schedule.php>
>
>     The Packers are on NBC twice, NFL Network/CBS once, CBS twice and
>     ESPN once.  That leaves 10 games on Fox, one of which is against
>     the Vikings.
>
>     On 2016-08-17 11:27, Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>>     Actually I worry that it's just NFL network(the channel) and
>>     redzone(the channel). NFL Network is just show after show talking
>>     about NFL. Redzone is cool because it shows any game going on
>>     that is in the redzone.
>>
>>     Once the season starts, can you let me know if you get the games?
>>     Hate to admit this here, but we are packer fans and we figure we
>>     save about $120 a month not having to go out to a bar to watch
>>     games :)
>>
>
>     -- 
>     Kathryn
>     Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
>     http://womensfooty.com
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 18:32:26 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:32:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] all internet content
In-Reply-To: <aa2fc9fc-a21c-8b88-a3be-cef211705e8f@kateley.com>
References: <4488928a-cd34-2d67-efd7-5caf8e3ad1b7@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOGJPy6LyFrSFtb6-DFhu8V+-Bq08wpP77VTczQ3ytqFEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGdyPtDMfZ+DkNUg+ruLw5CLvSJydOOgaSye7=HfM1w_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOF=FancgKpGmz-4ENJtxS0hUL0t4WZSXuxAsG-PuqF+Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9efcb53b-2a60-ea2a-c57a-d93691904a28@kateley.com>
 <b586941e-e877-90d3-502a-44950c7a9bb5@gmail.com>
 <CA+wcAactBpzdqqdDYXZbeNWfdQ=BxYq42-fgeyU8Z=DPHKNyJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <67b7431a-b0f5-fb74-fefb-94170ce7b193@gmail.com>
 <379204FF-2963-40B9-8D34-1F32897E767B@riseup.net>
 <cccb352f0056a3bae338f48a023e21c1@flyballdogs.com>
 <3AB4AE03-8120-464C-9AAC-B5910DE574AB@riseup.net>
 <fb5e2ea4-2442-5f41-b4de-f9c05835f1cf@kateley.com>
 <b749834cf1cf6eba5b0e0752d9804c49@flyballdogs.com>
 <CA+G9TOHwAQRVEeND1ygz7CixUqX50ghYz-hvapN6oOfj2FBtYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <aa2fc9fc-a21c-8b88-a3be-cef211705e8f@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGiW5_YUDN=0GvTcjy399d6rza-gy7s-+eL7b8TM=HxMg@mail.gmail.com>

wife exported me to packer country :-(

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com>
wrote:

> Married a packer fan. Had to convert, for the children :)
>
> On 8/19/16 7:21 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
> looking at my dvr this morning. nothing on it i want to watch. there
> rarely ever is. then i start a show. it says on thing plays another.
> delete. start another show. last minute cut off. no idea how it ended.
> cable blows. back to my computer. did you say  Packers lol...
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Kathryn Hogg <kjh at flyballdogs.com> wrote:
>
>> The NFL network is the home of Thursday Night football.
>>
>> Since you apparently live out of market, you will only get them locally
>> when they play the Vikings, are on national telecasts like Sunday Night
>> Football (SNF), Thursday or Monday.  Occasionally they will also be on
>> locally during the Vikings bye week, if CBS is carrying the game or if Fox
>> has a double header and they play at a different time than the Vikings.
>>
>> This page has a pretty good overview of streaming NFL
>>
>> http://www.cutcabletoday.com/sports/nfl/
>>
>> AFAIK, the only way for you to be guaranteed to watch every game that
>> your wretched team plays is to have DirectTV and sign up for Sunday ticket.
>>
>>
>> If you want to stream, your best option might be to sign up for NFL
>> gamepass but you won't be able to watch the games live.  They say on demand
>> but same day but I have no idea how much of a delay there will be.
>>
>> According to http://www.fbschedules.com/nfl-16/2016-green-bay-packers-
>> football-schedule.php
>>
>> The Packers are on NBC twice, NFL Network/CBS once, CBS twice and ESPN
>> once.  That leaves 10 games on Fox, one of which is against the Vikings.
>>
>> On 2016-08-17 11:27, Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>> Actually I worry that it's just NFL network(the channel) and redzone(the
>> channel). NFL Network is just show after show talking about NFL. Redzone is
>> cool because it shows any game going on that is in the redzone.
>>
>> Once the season starts, can you let me know if you get the games? Hate to
>> admit this here, but we are packer fans and we figure we save about $120 a
>> month not having to go out to a bar to watch games :)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kathryn
>> Minnesota Freeze Senior Coach & Women's Head Coach
>> http://womensfooty.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 10:43:49 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:43:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>

   I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School with
the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up talk to
them and the head of the IT department.
   They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger ones.
They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time they decided
to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or testing, can't think
of an appropriate word, but with the quality of the teachers out here i am
pretty sure they could give my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would
still be well prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive
they will be much better off if they can learn without restrictions from
open source hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware)
and the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license
agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I
want them to have Linux.
   I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want
to have as many resources available to provide for them, including reasons
why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or
BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers
reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open
source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a
thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some
information to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed,
to give them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
offer; mostly community!
   They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together and keep
our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
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From tompoe at meltel.net  Sun Aug 21 11:52:38 2016
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 11:52:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9773741c-ac54-eaa4-17ef-e52aeb48ecfc@meltel.net>

http://tinyurl.com/cnsy5r9

The above link:


  50 Places Linux is Running That You Might Not Expect


On 08/21/2016 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow 
> up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger 
> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time 
> they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or 
> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of 
> the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks 
> and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on 
> their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if 
> they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, 
> software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to 
> choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement or for 
> reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I want them to 
> have Linux.
>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I 
> want to have as many resources available to provide for them, 
> including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. 
> Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and the IT 
> guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. 
> Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so how 
> they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond 
> me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to make 
> some more and use persistence to load up some information to give to 
> the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give them plenty 
> of time on their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly 
> community!
>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together and 
> keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?

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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 12:02:27 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 12:02:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <9773741c-ac54-eaa4-17ef-e52aeb48ecfc@meltel.net>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9773741c-ac54-eaa4-17ef-e52aeb48ecfc@meltel.net>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGTi+b+VgKyhVhTv=UV6_J6uLKjbzanHYnVF9uzjGS2kA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Tom. Always good to hear from you.

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/cnsy5r9
>
> The above link:
> 50 Places Linux is Running That You Might Not Expect
>
> On 08/21/2016 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School with
> the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up talk to
> them and the head of the IT department.
>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger ones.
> They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time they decided
> to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or testing, can't think
> of an appropriate word, but with the quality of the teachers out here i am
> pretty sure they could give my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would
> still be well prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive
> they will be much better off if they can learn without restrictions from
> open source hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware)
> and the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license
> agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I
> want them to have Linux.
>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want
> to have as many resources available to provide for them, including reasons
> why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
> quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or
> BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers
> reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open
> source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a
> thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some
> information to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed,
> to give them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
> offer; mostly community!
>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together and
> keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> --
> You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From mattwj2002 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 14:39:50 2016
From: mattwj2002 at gmail.com (Matthew Junk)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 14:39:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADeMz-TLSRZyafVHpL0nfT1xwjDvqnLtW5Uw07HoQrY3861ugA@mail.gmail.com>

Sandwich Eyes,

One comment I would add is open source (and Linux/BSD/ETC) software is
everywhere.

Android runs a heavy modified version of the Linux kernel.

Cisco has incorporated Linux in their IOS XR and XE versions of the
operating system.

Juniper is FreeBSD based.

MacOS is based on FreeBSD code.

And even Microsoft has incorporated the bash shell in Windows 10
anniversary update.

Those are my thoughts I hope it helps.

Thanks,

Matt

On Aug 21, 2016 10:44 AM, "Sandwhich Eyes" <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:

>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School with
> the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up talk to
> them and the head of the IT department.
>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger ones.
> They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time they decided
> to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or testing, can't think
> of an appropriate word, but with the quality of the teachers out here i am
> pretty sure they could give my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would
> still be well prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive
> they will be much better off if they can learn without restrictions from
> open source hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware)
> and the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license
> agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I
> want them to have Linux.
>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want
> to have as many resources available to provide for them, including reasons
> why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
> quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or
> BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers
> reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open
> source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a
> thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some
> information to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed,
> to give them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
> offer; mostly community!
>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together and
> keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Aug 22 01:03:36 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 06:03:36 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CADeMz-TLSRZyafVHpL0nfT1xwjDvqnLtW5Uw07HoQrY3861ugA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADeMz-TLSRZyafVHpL0nfT1xwjDvqnLtW5Uw07HoQrY3861ugA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160822060336.GB4561@nobelware.com>

I found the talk given by... Linus Torvalds's boss in a Portland TED talk to
be quite convincing that the open source movement is good for society, much
better than the alternative closed-source model, and the present and the
future.

There is room for closed source, but not at the OS level today, and probably
not at the productivity or enterprise software level either.


One more thought. I have mixed feelings about technology today. We used to
be "the hacker of the neighbourhood" back in the 80s. It got us to use new
technologies and to respect them at the same time. The second is the key
statement. Alongside preaching uses of certain technologies, please embed
the idea of respect. And by respect I mean people should experiment with
technologies, use them, exploit them to get ahead, but at the same time we
need to be able to live without it, and deal with not having it available
at times.


From lkateley at kateley.com  Mon Aug 22 12:00:01 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:00:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>

I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The 
problems I find there are always political and never about technology.

What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks the 
administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted 
to know, just not at the top.

I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, 
https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement with 
opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and 
it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent 
that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(

linda


On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow 
> up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger 
> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time 
> they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or 
> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of 
> the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks 
> and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on 
> their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if 
> they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, 
> software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to 
> choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement or for 
> reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I want them to 
> have Linux.
>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I 
> want to have as many resources available to provide for them, 
> including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. 
> Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and the IT 
> guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. 
> Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so how 
> they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond 
> me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to make 
> some more and use persistence to load up some information to give to 
> the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give them plenty 
> of time on their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly 
> community!
>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together and 
> keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tompoe at meltel.net  Mon Aug 22 13:32:27 2016
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:32:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <f7cf2e8e-bff6-c4cc-7042-30ec401c3859@meltel.net>

As you know, the FCC recently reclassified the Internet as a public 
utility.  The new game takes away the corporate argument against 
community broadband infrastructure. With that in mind, and the notion of 
a community emergency broadband mesh network is now a viable expectation 
for potential disaster communications.  Every school with a computer lab 
could have a couple nodes in place for educational purposes, and 
administered through Open Source platform.  The kids can create a 
volunteer club and discover how to expand the broadband infrastructure 
out into the community.  To make things easy, use the Meraki units as 
the nodes.  NYCMESH.NET is the big picture. If you or anyone wants to 
flesh this idea out, I'll pledge to come up with 2 nodes for a demo.

Tom


On 08/22/2016 12:00 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>
> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The 
> problems I find there are always political and never about technology.
>
> What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks 
> the administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who 
> wanted to know, just not at the top.
>
> I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, 
> https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement with 
> opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and 
> it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent 
> that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>
> linda
>
>
> On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow 
>> up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
>>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger 
>> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time 
>> they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or 
>> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of 
>> the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks 
>> and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on 
>> their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if 
>> they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, 
>> software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability 
>> to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement or 
>> for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I want 
>> them to have Linux.
>>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I 
>> want to have as many resources available to provide for them, 
>> including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. 
>> Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and the IT 
>> guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. 
>> Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so 
>> how they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is 
>> beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to 
>> make some more and use persistence to load up some information to 
>> give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give 
>> them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to 
>> offer; mostly community!
>>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together 
>> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate 
>> support!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?

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From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Aug 22 15:22:10 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:22:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>

When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school 
district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught, 
somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in 
some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm 
I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along 
with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town 
and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they 
fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.

I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it 
in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they 
are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually. 
It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.

Linda Kateley wrote:
>
> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The 
> problems I find there are always political and never about technology.
>
> What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks 
> the administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who 
> wanted to know, just not at the top.
>
> I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, 
> https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement with 
> opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and 
> it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent 
> that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>
> linda
>
>
> On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow 
>> up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
>>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger 
>> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time 
>> they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or 
>> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of 
>> the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks 
>> and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on 
>> their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if 
>> they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, 
>> software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability 
>> to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement or 
>> for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I want 
>> them to have Linux.
>>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I 
>> want to have as many resources available to provide for them, 
>> including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. 
>> Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and the IT 
>> guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. 
>> Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so 
>> how they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is 
>> beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to 
>> make some more and use persistence to load up some information to 
>> give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give 
>> them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to 
>> offer; mostly community!
>>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together 
>> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate 
>> support!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 15:52:03 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:52:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <f7cf2e8e-bff6-c4cc-7042-30ec401c3859@meltel.net>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <f7cf2e8e-bff6-c4cc-7042-30ec401c3859@meltel.net>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFS5MMiG-No0p_35bGxsGTvZDKc3=cKYg1AjXmMyc2EbA@mail.gmail.com>

   tom, i was the one who built the gray hoverman antenna with you that one
time, great memory. i was waiting for you to put that out there. i am foggy
on it and have a good jumping off point for that now. I don't want to
overwhelm them but if they are able to handle it i will work on that too.
Would be fun to see if we could get some involvement from city hall; i will
have to go to a meeting about it sometime.

   linda thank you for your advice about getting someone on the inside. I
will look into that. Rotary International taught me to find advocates to
help with the various causes. i hadn't thought of it in that light until
you mentioned it.
   Iznogoud i love ted ttalks and watch them with my children all the time.
i will make sure i watch that and double check for more goodies.

  matthew i will include that information.

they asked many questions about community when i spoke of it. seems a focal
point. i would like to have the political structure of the
linux and bsd communities available for them to review. i remember reading
the bsd information at one point. i am going to spend
some time today to try and find information about the variety of ways you
can volunteer your time to the various projects that are out
there. beside the speech i want to leave them with loads of information on
the live thumb drives i will leave them. i don't know if i
want to push Ubuntu, it just seems the easiest; ideas?

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:

> As you know, the FCC recently reclassified the Internet as a public
> utility.  The new game takes away the corporate argument against community
> broadband infrastructure.  With that in mind, and the notion of a community
> emergency broadband mesh network is now a viable expectation for potential
> disaster communications.  Every school with a computer lab could have a
> couple nodes in place for educational purposes, and administered through
> Open Source platform.  The kids can create a volunteer club and discover
> how to expand the broadband infrastructure out into the community.  To make
> things easy, use the Meraki units as the nodes.  NYCMESH.NET is the big
> picture.  If you or anyone wants to flesh this idea out, I'll pledge to
> come up with 2 nodes for a demo.
>
> Tom
>
> On 08/22/2016 12:00 PM, Linda Kateley wrote:
>
> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The problems
> I find there are always political and never about technology.
>
> What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks the
> administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted to
> know, just not at the top.
>
> I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
> https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement with
> opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and it
> opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent that
> thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>
> linda
>
> On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School with
> the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up talk to
> them and the head of the IT department.
>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger ones.
> They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time they decided
> to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or testing, can't think
> of an appropriate word, but with the quality of the teachers out here i am
> pretty sure they could give my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would
> still be well prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive
> they will be much better off if they can learn without restrictions from
> open source hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware)
> and the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license
> agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I
> want them to have Linux.
>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want
> to have as many resources available to provide for them, including reasons
> why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
> quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or
> BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers
> reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open
> source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a
> thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some
> information to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed,
> to give them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
> offer; mostly community!
>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together and
> keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> --
> You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Mon Aug 22 15:50:50 2016
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:50:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>

Relevancy.
To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn
about open source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our
future work force to be relevant when they enter the work force,
academia and the business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
in many ways is with open source software.
Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based on licensing and support costs.
Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
For example, visit?https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/?and filter on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux.

On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school?
> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,?
> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95
> in?
> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice
> storm?
> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows,
> along?
> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to
> town?
> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they?
> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an
> understatement.
> 
> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make
> it?
> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems
> they?
> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them
> intellectually.?
> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
> 
> Linda Kateley wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The?
> > problems I find there are always political and never about
> > technology.
> > 
> > What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that
> > speaks?
> > the administrations language. I found there were a ton of people
> > who?
> > wanted to know, just not at the top.
> > 
> > I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years
> > ago,?
> > https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement
> > with?
> > opensource or community. The project has been very very successful
> > and?
> > it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new
> > superintendent?
> > that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
> > 
> > linda
> > 
> > 
> > On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> > > 
> > > ???I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor
> > > School?
> > > with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a
> > > follow?
> > > up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
> > > ???They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the
> > > younger?
> > > ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This
> > > time?
> > > they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated
> > > or?
> > > testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality
> > > of?
> > > the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids
> > > sticks?
> > > and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life
> > > on?
> > > their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better
> > > off if?
> > > they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware,?
> > > software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the
> > > ability?
> > > to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement
> > > or?
> > > for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I
> > > want?
> > > them to have Linux.
> > > ???I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This
> > > time I?
> > > want to have as many resources available to provide for them,?
> > > including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use
> > > Linux.?
> > > Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and
> > > the IT?
> > > guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD,
> > > Solaris.?
> > > Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets
> > > so?
> > > how they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC
> > > is?
> > > beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I
> > > wanted to?
> > > make some more and use persistence to load up some information
> > > to?
> > > give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to
> > > give?
> > > them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has
> > > to?
> > > offer; mostly community!
> > > ???They asked many questions about community. Yes we work
> > > together?
> > > and keep our favorite distributions alive often without
> > > corporate?
> > > support!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 15:53:44 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:53:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFgxGkGpFO_EMtxKDAML5jhd7OV2SYbVp+Y2ytPDGduWg@mail.gmail.com>

   rick i am honestly impressed with their desire to work with me. i
imagine the political barries will show up though.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:

> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school district
> (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught, somewhere. The
> school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in some kind of lab.
> On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm I called and they
> said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along with program examples
> galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town and installed it all. I
> later went to school board meetings and they fought me until my kids all
> graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>
> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it in
> the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they are
> trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually. It sure
> wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>
>
> Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>>
>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The
>> problems I find there are always political and never about technology.
>>
>> What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks the
>> administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted to
>> know, just not at the top.
>>
>> I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>> https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement with
>> opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and it
>> opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent that
>> thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>
>> linda
>>
>>
>> On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>
>>>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School with
>>> the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up talk to
>>> them and the head of the IT department.
>>>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger
>>> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time they
>>> decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or testing, can't
>>> think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of the teachers out here
>>> i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks and a box of sand and they
>>> would still be well prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100%
>>> positive they will be much better off if they can learn without
>>> restrictions from open source hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers
>>> open courseware) and the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>>> some license agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an
>>> interest. I want them to have Linux.
>>>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I
>>> want to have as many resources available to provide for them, including
>>> reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help.
>>> I had quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix
>>> or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers
>>> reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open
>>> source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a
>>> thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some
>>> information to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed,
>>> to give them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
>>> offer; mostly community!
>>>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together and
>>> keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 16:09:06 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:09:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>

   r hayman very nice. you just can't argue with that!
Should i give people credit for some of these ideas? is that something
anyone would want? i think it would build up the
community aspect, because that is exactly what this is.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> wrote:

> Relevancy.
> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open
> source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future work
> force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia and the
> business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many ways is with
> open source software.
>
> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business differentiator
> today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
> support costs.
>
> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment
> research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name it, it
> predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>
> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and filter on
> TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System,
> Application Area, and Segments.
>
> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, not a
> single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%,
> run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in
> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>
> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they
> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>
> Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>
>
> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The
> problems I find there are always political and never about technology.
>
> What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks
> the administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who
> wanted to know, just not at the top.
>
> I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement with
> opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and
> it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent
> that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>
> linda
>
>
> On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
>
>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School
> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow
> up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger
> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time
> they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or
> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of
> the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
> and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on
> their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if
> they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware,
> software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability
> to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement or
> for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I want
> them to have Linux.
>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I
> want to have as many resources available to provide for them,
> including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux.
> Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and the IT
> guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris.
> Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so
> how they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
> beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to
> make some more and use persistence to load up some information to
> give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give
> them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
> offer; mostly community!
>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together
> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate
> support!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From tompoe at meltel.net  Mon Aug 22 16:24:42 2016
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:24:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a4c53f9e-c2e9-994d-f03a-c2a0df1ea2a6@meltel.net>

Back in the early 90's, National Institutes of Health (NIH) went through 
a lengthy effort and decided the Human Genome Project needed to be Open 
Source, rather than handing it off to proprietary software 
corporations.  We still have the struggles going on, but Open Source has 
basically won the day. Open up your software manager, and scroll through 
the education/science software selections.  Have your espeak app handy 
to help pronounce the molecular analytics ... stuff.  :) All of that is 
directly attributable to the Human Genome Project.

Tom


On 08/22/2016 04:09 PM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>    r hayman very nice. you just can't argue with that!
> Should i give people credit for some of these ideas? is that something 
> anyone would want? i think it would build up the
> community aspect, because that is exactly what this is.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com 
> <mailto:rhayman at pureice.com>> wrote:
>
>     Relevancy.
>     To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about
>     open source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our
>     future work force to be relevant when they enter the work force,
>     academia and the business world need to be aligned and that
>     alignment, in many ways is with open source software.
>
>     Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business
>     differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator
>     based on licensing and support costs.
>
>     Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and
>     environment research, simulations of all types, manufacturing,
>     design, you name it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>
>     For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>     <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter on TOP500
>     Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System,
>     Application Area, and Segments.
>
>     You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the
>     world, not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 -
>     just a hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious
>     distribution of Linux.
>
>
>
>     On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>     When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in
>>     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>>     I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>     with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>     and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>>
>>     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>>     in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they
>>     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>>     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>
>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>     I started working with my school district about 10 years ago.
>>>     The problems I find there are always political and never about
>>>     technology. What worked for me is to find one champion in the
>>>     system that speaks the administrations language. I found there
>>>     were a ton of people who wanted to know, just not at the top. I
>>>     introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years
>>>     ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first
>>>     involvement with opensource or community. The project has been
>>>     very very successful and it opened the doors to more. But then
>>>     they hired a new superintendent that thought it was stupid
>>>     so..that happened ;( linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>     wrote:
>>>>     I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor
>>>>     School with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to
>>>>     give a follow up talk to them and the head of the IT
>>>>     department. They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads
>>>>     for the younger ones. They bring these home at the end of the
>>>>     school day. This time they decided to go with cromebooks. It
>>>>     one of the best.. rated or testing, can't think of an
>>>>     appropriate word, but with the quality of the teachers out here
>>>>     i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks and a box of
>>>>     sand and they would still be well prepared for life on their
>>>>     own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if
>>>>     they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware,
>>>>     software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the
>>>>     ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license
>>>>     agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an
>>>>     interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a compelling
>>>>     argument in the last meeting. This time I want to have as many
>>>>     resources available to provide for them, including reasons why
>>>>     schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help.
>>>>     I had quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't
>>>>     know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems
>>>>     Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so
>>>>     how they didn't find anything about open source or
>>>>     Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a
>>>>     thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use persistence to
>>>>     load up some information to give to the IT people who are
>>>>     possibly way under informed, to give them plenty of time on
>>>>     their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>     community! They asked many questions about community. Yes we
>>>>     work together and keep our favorite distributions alive often
>>>>     without corporate support!
>>>>     _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>>>>     List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>>     _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>>>     List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>     _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List
>     - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-- 
You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?
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From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Aug 22 16:44:04 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:44:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>

Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s -> early 80s my 
first effort was to push those new microcomputers and even fiber optics. 
We had a meeting in Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 
and somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that calculated 
liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old Biophysics Prof. Otto 
Schmitt, whom I introduced as the "father of digital electronics" by 
throwing out some new Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who 
did this?" So the high point of my career came and went, the internet 
happened, everything is microcontroller controlled, lightweight displays 
are the norm, friends that tried to automate factories with pneumatic 
controls are broke, Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the 
world's biggest manufacturing economy.

I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of programs. IBM 
data explorer is worth learning before I'm 90. I learned there is now a 
Protein Data Bank, advanced programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver 
to draw molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how they 
exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I use is not in 
standard distros, like FreePascal, but the "forms library," oddly enough 
is in "Raspbian," the Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.

So when a couple of school computer administrators get praise for just 
wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how they will ever catch up.

r hayman wrote:
> Relevancy.
> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open 
> source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future work 
> force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia and the 
> business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many ways is 
> with open source software.
>
> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business 
> differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based 
> on licensing and support costs.
>
> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment 
> research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name 
> it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>
> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and filter 
> on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System, 
> Application Area, and Segments.
>
> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, 
> not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a 
> hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in
>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>>
>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they
>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>
>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The 
>>> problems I find there are always political and never about 
>>> technology. What worked for me is to find one champion in the system 
>>> that speaks the administrations language. I found there were a ton 
>>> of people who wanted to know, just not at the top. I introduced 
>>> scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, 
>>> https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement 
>>> with opensource or community. The project has been very very 
>>> successful and it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a 
>>> new superintendent that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;( 
>>> linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>> I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a 
>>>> follow up talk to them and the head of the IT department. They had 
>>>> macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger ones. They 
>>>> bring these home at the end of the school day. This time they 
>>>> decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or 
>>>> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality 
>>>> of the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids 
>>>> sticks and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for 
>>>> life on their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much 
>>>> better off if they can learn without restrictions from open source 
>>>> hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and 
>>>> the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license 
>>>> agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an 
>>>> interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a compelling 
>>>> argument in the last meeting. This time I want to have as many 
>>>> resources available to provide for them, including reasons why 
>>>> schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I 
>>>> had quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know 
>>>> what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu 
>>>> provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they 
>>>> didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond 
>>>> me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to make 
>>>> some more and use persistence to load up some information to give 
>>>> to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give them 
>>>> plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to 
>>>> offer; mostly community! They asked many questions about community. 
>>>> Yes we work together and keep our favorite distributions alive 
>>>> often without corporate support! 
>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List 
>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - 
>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From andrew at lunn.ch  Mon Aug 22 16:24:02 2016
From: andrew at lunn.ch (Andrew Lunn)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:24:02 +0200
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20160822212402.GA31727@lunn.ch>

> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world,
> not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a
> hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of
> Linux.

I think there are better examples than HPC. How many of us actually
use any of these 500 top supercomputers? Very few of us.

Look around you, where do you see Windows, iOS, MacOS, and Linux?

Windows is mostly a niche operating system, its niche is desktop and
services which support desktop.

iOS is again a niche OS, phones and tablets.

MacOS is mostly in the same niche as Windows, but less so for services
which support desktop.

Linux, runs nearly everything else, but because that is not a desktop,
what most people consider a computer, it is invisible to them. You
need to give examples of these invisible things. Android. Smart TVs,
wireless access points, set top boxes, printers, in flight
entertainment systems, modern ATM machines, most web services, drones,
mail sorting machines, most electronic medical equipment, etc.

So anybody who wants to be involved in computers which is not the
niche of desktop, will be involved in Linux, and the communities
around Linux.

       Andrew


From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Aug 22 17:11:01 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:11:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <a4c53f9e-c2e9-994d-f03a-c2a0df1ea2a6@meltel.net>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <a4c53f9e-c2e9-994d-f03a-c2a0df1ea2a6@meltel.net>
Message-ID: <57BB7875.2000602@pinenet.com>

If you know how to use that software, may I suggest an application. 
Right now "advanced biofuels" are important. The molecule cellulose is 
everywhere, and plants are growing faster with more CO2. So we have more 
fuel we don't know how to process. This effort is mandated in the US and UN.

My gimmick is "solar biofuels." The concept is simple, wood needs 
glowing coals to evaporate then burn. But we have solar photons instead 
of glowing coals. We can break cellulose and add energy to a very stable 
molecule using solar energy instead of all the microbiology that has 
failed to deliver.

I would like to see cellulose modeled. The symmetry, and many other 
properties might be evaluated using some of this Linux software.

Tom wrote:
>
> Back in the early 90's, National Institutes of Health (NIH) went 
> through a lengthy effort and decided the Human Genome Project needed 
> to be Open Source, rather than handing it off to proprietary software 
> corporations.  We still have the struggles going on, but Open Source 
> has basically won the day.  Open up your software manager, and scroll 
> through the education/science software selections.  Have your espeak 
> app handy to help pronounce the molecular analytics ... stuff.  :)  
> All of that is directly attributable to the Human Genome Project.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 08/22/2016 04:09 PM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>    r hayman very nice. you just can't argue with that!
>> Should i give people credit for some of these ideas? is that 
>> something anyone would want? i think it would build up the
>> community aspect, because that is exactly what this is.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com 
>> <mailto:rhayman at pureice.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Relevancy.
>>     To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about
>>     open source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our
>>     future work force to be relevant when they enter the work force,
>>     academia and the business world need to be aligned and that
>>     alignment, in many ways is with open source software.
>>
>>     Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business
>>     differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator
>>     based on licensing and support costs.
>>
>>     Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and
>>     environment research, simulations of all types, manufacturing,
>>     design, you name it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>>
>>     For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>     <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter on TOP500
>>     Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System,
>>     Application Area, and Segments.
>>
>>     You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the
>>     world, not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16
>>     - just a hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious
>>     distribution of Linux.
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>     When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>>     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>>     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in
>>>     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>>>     I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>>     with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>>     and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>>     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>>>
>>>     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>>>     in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they
>>>     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>>>     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>
>>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>     I started working with my school district about 10 years ago.
>>>>     The problems I find there are always political and never about
>>>>     technology. What worked for me is to find one champion in the
>>>>     system that speaks the administrations language. I found there
>>>>     were a ton of people who wanted to know, just not at the top. I
>>>>     introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years
>>>>     ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first
>>>>     involvement with opensource or community. The project has been
>>>>     very very successful and it opened the doors to more. But then
>>>>     they hired a new superintendent that thought it was stupid
>>>>     so..that happened ;( linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>     I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor
>>>>>     School with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to
>>>>>     give a follow up talk to them and the head of the IT
>>>>>     department. They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads
>>>>>     for the younger ones. They bring these home at the end of the
>>>>>     school day. This time they decided to go with cromebooks. It
>>>>>     one of the best.. rated or testing, can't think of an
>>>>>     appropriate word, but with the quality of the teachers out
>>>>>     here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks and a box
>>>>>     of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on
>>>>>     their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better
>>>>>     off if they can learn without restrictions from open source
>>>>>     hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware)
>>>>>     and the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some
>>>>>     license agreement or for reading and modifying code should
>>>>>     that be an interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>>     compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want to
>>>>>     have as many resources available to provide for them,
>>>>>     including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use
>>>>>     Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last
>>>>>     time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or
>>>>>     Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded
>>>>>     with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about
>>>>>     open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live
>>>>>     Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use
>>>>>     persistence to load up some information to give to the IT
>>>>>     people who are possibly way under informed, to give them
>>>>>     plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
>>>>>     offer; mostly community! They asked many questions about
>>>>>     community. Yes we work together and keep our favorite
>>>>>     distributions alive often without corporate support!
>>>>>     _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>>>>>     List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>>>     _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>>>>     List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>     _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>>     List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> -- 
> You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 17:58:10 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:58:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>

I really like this wireless mesh stuff. I am very interested. doing some
deep reading now.

http://qmp.cat/Overview

also check out how it has cat in the domain name. facebook flagged it as
dangerous so i had click a few pictures of cats and what not to get it to
publish.  this is the site off of the nyc mesh link from tom poe.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

>    r hayman very nice. you just can't argue with that!
> Should i give people credit for some of these ideas? is that something
> anyone would want? i think it would build up the
> community aspect, because that is exactly what this is.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> wrote:
>
>> Relevancy.
>> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open
>> source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future work
>> force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia and the
>> business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many ways is with
>> open source software.
>>
>> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business differentiator
>> today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>> support costs.
>>
>> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment
>> research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name it, it
>> predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>>
>> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and filter on
>> TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System,
>> Application Area, and Segments.
>>
>> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, not a
>> single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%,
>> run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>
>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in
>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>>
>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they
>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>
>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The
>> problems I find there are always political and never about technology.
>>
>> What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks
>> the administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who
>> wanted to know, just not at the top.
>>
>> I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement with
>> opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and
>> it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent
>> that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>
>> linda
>>
>>
>> On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>
>>
>>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School
>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow
>> up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
>>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger
>> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time
>> they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or
>> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of
>> the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>> and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on
>> their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if
>> they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware,
>> software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability
>> to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement or
>> for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I want
>> them to have Linux.
>>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I
>> want to have as many resources available to provide for them,
>> including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux.
>> Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and the IT
>> guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris.
>> Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so
>> how they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>> beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to
>> make some more and use persistence to load up some information to
>> give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give
>> them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to
>> offer; mostly community!
>>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together
>> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate
>> support!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Mon Aug 22 19:59:59 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:59:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>

So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming program ... 
Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach programming logic 
without language.. There used to be something similar back in the day 
called bluejay which did something very similar but got people more 
ready for objects and was intended for college.

Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are 15), we 
are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some new innovation. 
Logic to me is the key to everything. Arduino's are cool and already 
being used in most of the robot clubs.. Languages will change shift and 
move.. but if they understand they have to speak to the device in it's 
language and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak 
native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I know how 
they work.

Sorry for pontification.

lk


On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
> Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s -> early 80s my 
> first effort was to push those new microcomputers and even fiber 
> optics. We had a meeting in Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an 
> Epson QX10 and somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that 
> calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old Biophysics 
> Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the "father of digital 
> electronics" by throwing out some new Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, 
> remarked, "Who did this?" So the high point of my career came and 
> went, the internet happened, everything is microcontroller controlled, 
> lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to automate 
> factories with pneumatic controls are broke, Lowertown is beautiful, 
> Communist China is the world's biggest manufacturing economy.
>
> I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of programs. 
> IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm 90. I learned there is 
> now a Protein Data Bank, advanced programs to use it, and a nice 
> XScreensaver to draw molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am 
> surprised how they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I 
> use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the "forms 
> library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>
> So when a couple of school computer administrators get praise for just 
> wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how they will ever catch up.
>
> r hayman wrote:
>> Relevancy.
>> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open 
>> source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future 
>> work force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia 
>> and the business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many 
>> ways is with open source software.
>>
>> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business 
>> differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator 
>> based on licensing and support costs.
>>
>> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment 
>> research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name 
>> it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>>
>> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and filter 
>> on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System, 
>> Application Area, and Segments.
>>
>> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, 
>> not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a 
>> hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of 
>> Linux.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 
>>> 95 in
>>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an 
>>> understatement.
>>>
>>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems 
>>> they
>>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>
>>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The 
>>>> problems I find there are always political and never about 
>>>> technology. What worked for me is to find one champion in the 
>>>> system that speaks the administrations language. I found there were 
>>>> a ton of people who wanted to know, just not at the top. I 
>>>> introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, 
>>>> https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first involvement 
>>>> with opensource or community. The project has been very very 
>>>> successful and it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a 
>>>> new superintendent that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;( 
>>>> linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>> I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
>>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a 
>>>>> follow up talk to them and the head of the IT department. They had 
>>>>> macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger ones. 
>>>>> They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time they 
>>>>> decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or 
>>>>> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality 
>>>>> of the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids 
>>>>> sticks and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for 
>>>>> life on their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much 
>>>>> better off if they can learn without restrictions from open source 
>>>>> hardware, software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and 
>>>>> the ability to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license 
>>>>> agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be an 
>>>>> interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a compelling 
>>>>> argument in the last meeting. This time I want to have as many 
>>>>> resources available to provide for them, including reasons why 
>>>>> schools frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I 
>>>>> had quite the presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know 
>>>>> what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu 
>>>>> provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they 
>>>>> didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond 
>>>>> me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to 
>>>>> make some more and use persistence to load up some information to 
>>>>> give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give 
>>>>> them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to 
>>>>> offer; mostly community! They asked many questions about 
>>>>> community. Yes we work together and keep our favorite 
>>>>> distributions alive often without corporate support! 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List 
>>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List 
>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From lkateley at kateley.com  Mon Aug 22 20:04:46 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:04:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c062e1d-a5e7-250a-4056-5faace5256f8@kateley.com>

Another thing I would push if I had the chance is oculus rift.


On 8/22/16 5:58 PM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> I really like this wireless mesh stuff. I am very interested. doing 
> some deep reading now.
>
> http://qmp.cat/Overview
>
> also check out how it has cat in the domain name. facebook flagged it 
> as dangerous so i had click a few pictures of cats and what not to get 
> it to publish.  this is the site off of the nyc mesh link from tom poe.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Sandwhich Eyes 
> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>        r hayman very nice. you just can't argue with that!
>     Should i give people credit for some of these ideas? is that
>     something anyone would want? i think it would build up the
>     community aspect, because that is exactly what this is.
>
>     On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com
>     <mailto:rhayman at pureice.com>> wrote:
>
>         Relevancy.
>         To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn
>         about open source software and Linux. To prepare our students
>         and our future work force to be relevant when they enter the
>         work force, academia and the business world need to be aligned
>         and that alignment, in many ways is with open source software.
>
>         Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business
>         differentiator today, it may only be a (negative)
>         differentiator based on licensing and support costs.
>
>         Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and
>         environment research, simulations of all types, manufacturing,
>         design, you name it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open
>         source.
>
>         For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>         <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter on TOP500
>         Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System,
>         Application Area, and Segments.
>
>         You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the
>         world, not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only
>         16 - just a hair over 3%, run something other than some
>         obvious distribution of Linux.
>
>
>
>         On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>         When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>         district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>         somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in
>>         some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>>         I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>         with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>         and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>         fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>>
>>         I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>>         in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they
>>         are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>>         It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>
>>         Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>         I started working with my school district about 10 years
>>>         ago. The problems I find there are always political and
>>>         never about technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>>         champion in the system that speaks the administrations
>>>         language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted to
>>>         know, just not at the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>>         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>>         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first
>>>         involvement with opensource or community. The project has
>>>         been very very successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>>         But then they hired a new superintendent that thought it was
>>>         stupid so..that happened ;( linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM,
>>>         Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>         I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor
>>>>         School with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked
>>>>         to give a follow up talk to them and the head of the IT
>>>>         department. They had macbook air for the older kids and
>>>>         ipads for the younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>         end of the school day. This time they decided to go with
>>>>         cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or testing, can't
>>>>         think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of the
>>>>         teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids
>>>>         sticks and a box of sand and they would still be well
>>>>         prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive
>>>>         they will be much better off if they can learn without
>>>>         restrictions from open source hardware, software, classes
>>>>         (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>>>         choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license
>>>>         agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be
>>>>         an interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>         compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want
>>>>         to have as many resources available to provide for them,
>>>>         including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use
>>>>         Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the presentation
>>>>         last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>>>         was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides
>>>>         computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they
>>>>         didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>>>         beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I
>>>>         wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up
>>>>         some information to give to the IT people who are possibly
>>>>         way under informed, to give them plenty of time on their
>>>>         own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>         community! They asked many questions about community. Yes
>>>>         we work together and keep our favorite distributions alive
>>>>         often without corporate support!
>>>>         _______________________________________________ TCLUG
>>>>         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>>         _______________________________________________ TCLUG
>>>         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>         _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>         List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Aug 22 22:29:36 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:29:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>


Mesh is nice. I design and install large systems as part of my day job.



> On Aug 22, 2016, at 5:58 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I really like this wireless mesh stuff. I am very interested. doing some deep reading now.
> 
> http://qmp.cat/Overview <http://qmp.cat/Overview>   
> 
> also check out how it has cat in the domain name. facebook flagged it as dangerous so i had click a few pictures of cats and what not to get it to publish.  this is the site off of the nyc mesh link from tom poe.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>    r hayman very nice. you just can't argue with that!
> Should i give people credit for some of these ideas? is that something anyone would want? i think it would build up the 
> community aspect, because that is exactly what this is.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com <mailto:rhayman at pureice.com>> wrote:
> Relevancy.
> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future work force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia and the business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many ways is with open source software.
> 
> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based on licensing and support costs.
> 
> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
> 
> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
> 
> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school 
>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught, 
>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in 
>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm 
>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along 
>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town 
>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they 
>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>> 
>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it 
>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they 
>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually. 
>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>> 
>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The 
>>> problems I find there are always political and never about technology.
>>> 
>>> What worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks 
>>> the administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who 
>>> wanted to know, just not at the top.
>>> 
>>> I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years ago, 
>>> https://scratch.mit.edu/ <https://scratch.mit.edu/>. It was the districts first involvement with 
>>> opensource or community. The project has been very very successful and 
>>> it opened the doors to more. But then they hired a new superintendent 
>>> that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>> 
>>> linda
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow 
>>>> up talk to them and the head of the IT department.
>>>>    They had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger 
>>>> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This time 
>>>> they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or 
>>>> testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of 
>>>> the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids sticks 
>>>> and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for life on 
>>>> their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off if 
>>>> they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, 
>>>> software, classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability 
>>>> to choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license agreement or 
>>>> for reading and modifying code should that be an interest. I want 
>>>> them to have Linux.
>>>>    I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I 
>>>> want to have as many resources available to provide for them, 
>>>> including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use Linux. 
>>>> Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last time and the IT 
>>>> guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. 
>>>> Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so 
>>>> how they didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is 
>>>> beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to 
>>>> make some more and use persistence to load up some information to 
>>>> give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give 
>>>> them plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to 
>>>> offer; mostly community!
>>>>    They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together 
>>>> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate 
>>>> support!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Aug 22 23:07:56 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:07:56 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20160823040756.GA30880@nobelware.com>

Lots of good ideas here. Gives me hope to know not all of us are after Pokemon.

Mr Hayman spent many years at the supercomputer facilities in Alaska. He is as
biased about linux being a real scientific tool as I am, with my 18 years of
supercomputing experience from the Origin2000 and IBM/SP2 at UofM's MSI, to
having built 5 of our own clusters (Linux) in the basement of Akerman Hall. But
the reality of the matter is that there is much more invisible Linux than what
I have seen. I bought an MP3 player for my car circa 2008, and when I opened
it up I realized it was an ARM chip in it and it was running Linux. Mind blown!

I do not feel comfortable with anything other than a unix, at this point. I
started with an Amiga, which had a powerful CLI and an excellent windowed
environment back in the 80s. Unix and X11 are just like it. But it is not
nostalgia or the familiarity that kept me on Linux Slackware since 1993, it
is the fact that it really matches my personality and how I think.

As for how to engage youngings with technology, I also think that logic is the
thing to master first. But I cannot distinguish it from a computer now. The
real reason is that what a better way and a very inexpensive way to explore
logic, etc, than to put the thoughts/math in code and watch it run! The
barrier-to-entry is very low, and the information a click away. I do not know
why kids even look at Pokemon when there is much else that is so much more fun.

And one final thought, for which I have to put my Alan Watts hat on. Try to
do what you like, do not worry about the money, and imerse yourself in it
and spend the time in it. It does not matter if it is art, science, social
service... just start from somewhere. You want a mesh built? Go for it.

IN


From tompoe at meltel.net  Mon Aug 22 23:20:07 2016
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:20:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>

Hi, Ryan:  Well, it's not too soon to start designing a statewide 
community emergency broadband mesh network. Rochester is considering the 
feasibility of such a network as we sit here.  :)

Tom

P.S.  I could be wrong about that.  I'm guessing these networks can be 
sustainable based on a business model that pairs up advertisers with 
content.


On 08/22/2016 10:29 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
> Mesh is nice. I design and install large systems as part of my day job.
>
>
>
>> On Aug 22, 2016, at 5:58 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I really like this wireless mesh stuff. I am very interested. doing 
>> some deep reading now.
>>
>> http://qmp.cat/Overview
>>
>> also check out how it has cat in the domain name. facebook flagged it 
>> as dangerous so i had click a few pictures of cats and what not to 
>> get it to publish.  this is the site off of the nyc mesh link from 
>> tom poe.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Sandwhich Eyes 
>> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>        r hayman very nice. you just can't argue with that!
>>     Should i give people credit for some of these ideas? is that
>>     something anyone would want? i think it would build up the
>>     community aspect, because that is exactly what this is.
>>
>>     On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com
>>     <mailto:rhayman at pureice.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Relevancy.
>>         To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn
>>         about open source software and Linux. To prepare our students
>>         and our future work force to be relevant when they enter the
>>         work force, academia and the business world need to be
>>         aligned and that alignment, in many ways is with open source
>>         software.
>>
>>         Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business
>>         differentiator today, it may only be a (negative)
>>         differentiator based on licensing and support costs.
>>
>>         Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and
>>         environment research, simulations of all types,
>>         manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly runs on
>>         Linux and open source.
>>
>>         For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>         <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter on
>>         TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating
>>         System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>
>>         You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the
>>         world, not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only
>>         16 - just a hair over 3%, run something other than some
>>         obvious distribution of Linux.
>>
>>
>>
>>         On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>         When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>>         district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>>         somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95 in
>>>         some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>>>         I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>>         with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>>         and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>>         fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an understatement.
>>>
>>>         I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>>>         in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems they
>>>         are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>>>         It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>
>>>         Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>         I started working with my school district about 10 years
>>>>         ago. The problems I find there are always political and
>>>>         never about technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>>>         champion in the system that speaks the administrations
>>>>         language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted to
>>>>         know, just not at the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>>>         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>>>         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first
>>>>         involvement with opensource or community. The project has
>>>>         been very very successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>>>         But then they hired a new superintendent that thought it
>>>>         was stupid so..that happened ;( linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM,
>>>>         Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>         I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor
>>>>>         School with the principal and an IT guy and have been
>>>>>         asked to give a follow up talk to them and the head of the
>>>>>         IT department. They had macbook air for the older kids and
>>>>>         ipads for the younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>>         end of the school day. This time they decided to go with
>>>>>         cromebooks. It one of the best.. rated or testing, can't
>>>>>         think of an appropriate word, but with the quality of the
>>>>>         teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give my kids
>>>>>         sticks and a box of sand and they would still be well
>>>>>         prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive
>>>>>         they will be much better off if they can learn without
>>>>>         restrictions from open source hardware, software, classes
>>>>>         (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>>>>         choose, to not be scolded for breaking some license
>>>>>         agreement or for reading and modifying code should that be
>>>>>         an interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>>         compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want
>>>>>         to have as many resources available to provide for them,
>>>>>         including reasons why schools frequently choose to not use
>>>>>         Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the presentation
>>>>>         last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>>>>         was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides
>>>>>         computers reloaded with Linux and tablets so how they
>>>>>         didn't find anything about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>>>>         beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive.
>>>>>         I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up
>>>>>         some information to give to the IT people who are possibly
>>>>>         way under informed, to give them plenty of time on their
>>>>>         own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>>         community! They asked many questions about community. Yes
>>>>>         we work together and keep our favorite distributions alive
>>>>>         often without corporate support!
>>>>>         _______________________________________________ TCLUG
>>>>>         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>>>         _______________________________________________ TCLUG
>>>>         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>         _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing
>>         List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> 
>>
>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - 
>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
-- 
You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?
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From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Aug 23 04:04:59 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:04:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
Message-ID: <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>

Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to better 
understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take issue with 
your assertion.

We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years. And 
we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy, and housing 
in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or social planning. We 
also know there are a lot of guns and bad attitudes that seem to be 
getting worse.

Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed in 
Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same ol in 
Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.

Linda Kateley wrote:
> So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming program 
> ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach programming 
> logic without language.. There used to be something similar back in 
> the day called bluejay which did something very similar but got people 
> more ready for objects and was intended for college.
>
> Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are 15), we 
> are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some new innovation. 
> Logic to me is the key to everything. Arduino's are cool and already 
> being used in most of the robot clubs.. Languages will change shift 
> and move.. but if they understand they have to speak to the device in 
> it's language and build program's, I think they will be alright. I 
> speak native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I 
> know how they work.
>
> Sorry for pontification.
>
> lk
>
>
> On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>> Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s -> early 80s my 
>> first effort was to push those new microcomputers and even fiber 
>> optics. We had a meeting in Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an 
>> Epson QX10 and somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that 
>> calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old Biophysics 
>> Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the "father of digital 
>> electronics" by throwing out some new Radio Shack Schmitt trigger 
>> ICs, remarked, "Who did this?" So the high point of my career came 
>> and went, the internet happened, everything is microcontroller 
>> controlled, lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to 
>> automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke, Lowertown is 
>> beautiful, Communist China is the world's biggest manufacturing economy.
>>
>> I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of programs. 
>> IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm 90. I learned there is 
>> now a Protein Data Bank, advanced programs to use it, and a nice 
>> XScreensaver to draw molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am 
>> surprised how they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I 
>> use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the "forms 
>> library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>
>> So when a couple of school computer administrators get praise for 
>> just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how they will ever catch up.
>>
>> r hayman wrote:
>>> Relevancy.
>>> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about 
>>> open source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our 
>>> future work force to be relevant when they enter the work force, 
>>> academia and the business world need to be aligned and that 
>>> alignment, in many ways is with open source software.
>>>
>>> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business 
>>> differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator 
>>> based on licensing and support costs.
>>>
>>> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and 
>>> environment research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, 
>>> design, you name it, it predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>>>
>>> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and 
>>> filter on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating 
>>> System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>>
>>> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, 
>>> not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a 
>>> hair over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of 
>>> Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 
>>>> 95 in
>>>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice 
>>>> storm
>>>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an 
>>>> understatement.
>>>>
>>>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can 
>>>> make it
>>>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems 
>>>> they
>>>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them 
>>>> intellectually.
>>>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>>
>>>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The 
>>>>> problems I find there are always political and never about 
>>>>> technology. What worked for me is to find one champion in the 
>>>>> system that speaks the administrations language. I found there 
>>>>> were a ton of people who wanted to know, just not at the top. I 
>>>>> introduced scratch to the elementary STEM school about 5 years 
>>>>> ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts first 
>>>>> involvement with opensource or community. The project has been 
>>>>> very very successful and it opened the doors to more. But then 
>>>>> they hired a new superintendent that thought it was stupid 
>>>>> so..that happened ;( linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>> I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School 
>>>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a 
>>>>>> follow up talk to them and the head of the IT department. They 
>>>>>> had macbook air for the older kids and ipads for the younger 
>>>>>> ones. They bring these home at the end of the school day. This 
>>>>>> time they decided to go with cromebooks. It one of the best.. 
>>>>>> rated or testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but with 
>>>>>> the quality of the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could 
>>>>>> give my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would still be 
>>>>>> well prepared for life on their own/college. I am 100% positive 
>>>>>> they will be much better off if they can learn without 
>>>>>> restrictions from open source hardware, software, classes (like 
>>>>>> MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to choose, to not be 
>>>>>> scolded for breaking some license agreement or for reading and 
>>>>>> modifying code should that be an interest. I want them to have 
>>>>>> Linux. I have gave a compelling argument in the last meeting. 
>>>>>> This time I want to have as many resources available to provide 
>>>>>> for them, including reasons why schools frequently choose to not 
>>>>>> use Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the presentation last 
>>>>>> time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was; or 
>>>>>> Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded 
>>>>>> with Linux and tablets so how they didn't find anything about 
>>>>>> open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live 
>>>>>> Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more and use 
>>>>>> persistence to load up some information to give to the IT people 
>>>>>> who are possibly way under informed, to give them plenty of time 
>>>>>> on their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly 
>>>>>> community! They asked many questions about community. Yes we work 
>>>>>> together and keep our favorite distributions alive often without 
>>>>>> corporate support! 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing 
>>>>>> List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List 
>>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org 
>>>>> <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From wdtj at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 23 08:16:28 2016
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:16:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: IEEE August program: INFRARED ASTRONOMY FROM
 THE	GROUND, AIR, AND SPACE
In-Reply-To: <9E679EBE53AE43CA8D9790FC0257CC0A@D830B>
References: <9E679EBE53AE43CA8D9790FC0257CC0A@D830B>
Message-ID: <577297273.615632.1471958188777.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I know IEEE Computer's focus is on the computer professional, but would it be appropriate for me to extend this invitation to the Tripoli Minnesota Rocketry club?
?--- 
Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.????????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003???????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


      From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
 Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 5:13 PM
 Subject: [tclug-list] FW: IEEE August program: INFRARED ASTRONOMY FROM THE GROUND, AIR, AND SPACE
   
 ??Infrared Astronomy from the Ground, Air, and Space??Robert D. Gehrz, ?Professor, Minnesota Institute for Astrophysics, University of Minnesota.Infrared (IR) astronomical observations, beginning in the late 1960?s,?have provided new understanding of the origin, content, and chemical?evolution of the Universe. Early observations in the field were made?with ground-based observatories that set the stage for more advanced?facilities recently developed by NASA.A brief history of?the field will be presented. Observations with the Wyoming Infrared Observatory, and?NASA?s Spitzer Space Telescope and Stratospheric Observatory?for Infrared astronomy (SOFIA) will be presented. Anticipated?observations with NASA?s James Webb Space Telescope will be described.?Location details and (free) registration? https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/40148?Date: 27 August 2016,?? Time: 09:30 AM to 12:30 PM
Must register before 6pm on Friday August 26.? 
?Agenda9:30? Networking, Coffee10:00 Presentation:? 11:00? Questions, Discussion11:30? PizzaFree, but space is limited and we also need headcount for pizza.??Chuck ColeVice Chair TC IEEE Computer Society

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


  
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 08:30:57 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:30:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] site link down
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOG=-K_iSr3TGPcJbN86549xNck-ryF_QVb0SqSNQs1KCg@mail.gmail.com>

looking for other linux user groups off of the tclug website from this
link.
http://www.linux.org/users/index.html/
and was brought to
http://www.linux.org/members/index.html/
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 23 08:55:27 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 06:55:27 -0700
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: IEEE August program: INFRARED ASTRONOMY FROM
	THE	GROUND, AIR, AND SPACE
In-Reply-To: <577297273.615632.1471958188777.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <9E679EBE53AE43CA8D9790FC0257CC0A@D830B>
 <577297273.615632.1471958188777.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3276D67AB67F4D0E9D95588B137B853C@D830B>

Sure.. 


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 6:16 AM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FW: IEEE August program: INFRARED ASTRONOMY FROM
THE GROUND, AIR, AND SPACE


I know IEEE Computer's focus is on the computer professional, but would it
be appropriate for me to extend this invitation to the Tripoli Minnesota
Rocketry club?


 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
3943 Penn Ave. N.          | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
Minneapolis, MN 55412-1908 | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
(612) 522-7003             | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




  _____  

From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 5:13 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: IEEE August program: INFRARED ASTRONOMY FROM THE
GROUND, AIR, AND SPACE


 
 

Infrared Astronomy from the Ground, Air, and Space 
 
Robert D. Gehrz,  Professor, Minnesota Institute for Astrophysics,
University of Minnesota.
Infrared (IR) astronomical observations, beginning in the late 1960's, have
provided new understanding of the origin, content, and chemical evolution of
the Universe. Early observations in the field were made with ground-based
observatories that set the stage for more advanced facilities recently
developed by NASA.
A brief history of the field will be presented. Observations with the
Wyoming Infrared Observatory, and NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope and
Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared astronomy (SOFIA) will be presented.
Anticipated observations with NASA's James Webb Space Telescope will be
described.
 
Location details and (free) registration
https://meetings.vtools.ieee.org/m/40148
 
Date: 27 August 2016,   Time: 09:30 AM to 12:30 PM


Must register before 6pm on Friday August 26.  

 
Agenda

9:30  Networking, Coffee
10:00 Presentation:  
11:00  Questions, Discussion
11:30  Pizza


Free, but space is limited and we also need headcount for pizza.
 
 
Chuck Cole
Vice Chair TC IEEE Computer Society



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 09:33:57 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:33:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com> <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>

i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas in
these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned the
wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is just
loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids
under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of
parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what
this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it
do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do
something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it
do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap
wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials).
that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED
Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to
26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they
"should" see.
I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
them interested to learn.

Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with varying
interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:

> Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to better
> understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take issue with your
> assertion.
>
> We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years. And we
> do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy, and housing in the
> next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or social planning. We also know
> there are a lot of guns and bad attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>
> Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed in
> Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same ol in
> Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>
>
> Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>> So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming program ...
>> Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach programming logic without
>> language.. There used to be something similar back in the day called
>> bluejay which did something very similar but got people more ready for
>> objects and was intended for college.
>>
>> Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are 15), we are
>> going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some new innovation. Logic to
>> me is the key to everything. Arduino's are cool and already being used in
>> most of the robot clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if
>> they understand they have to speak to the device in it's language and build
>> program's, I think they will be alright. I speak native solaris, but can
>> move between os's like shoes cause I know how they work.
>>
>> Sorry for pontification.
>>
>> lk
>>
>>
>> On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>
>>> Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s -> early 80s my
>>> first effort was to push those new microcomputers and even fiber optics. We
>>> had a meeting in Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>> somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that calculated liquid
>>> crystal electro-optic properties. Old Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I
>>> introduced as the "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>> Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?" So the high
>>> point of my career came and went, the internet happened, everything is
>>> microcontroller controlled, lightweight displays are the norm, friends that
>>> tried to automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke, Lowertown is
>>> beautiful, Communist China is the world's biggest manufacturing economy.
>>>
>>> I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of programs. IBM
>>> data explorer is worth learning before I'm 90. I learned there is now a
>>> Protein Data Bank, advanced programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to
>>> draw molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how they exploit
>>> the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I use is not in standard distros,
>>> like FreePascal, but the "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian,"
>>> the Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>>
>>> So when a couple of school computer administrators get praise for just
>>> wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how they will ever catch up.
>>>
>>> r hayman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Relevancy.
>>>> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open
>>>> source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future work
>>>> force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>>> business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many ways is with
>>>> open source software.
>>>>
>>>> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business
>>>> differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based on
>>>> licensing and support costs.
>>>>
>>>> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment
>>>> research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name it, it
>>>> predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>>>>
>>>> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and filter
>>>> on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System,
>>>> Application Area, and Segments.
>>>>
>>>> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world, not
>>>> a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over
>>>> 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>>>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>>>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95
>>>>> in
>>>>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice storm
>>>>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>>>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>>>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>>>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an
>>>>> understatement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make it
>>>>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems
>>>>> they
>>>>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them intellectually.
>>>>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The
>>>>>> problems I find there are always political and never about technology. What
>>>>>> worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks the
>>>>>> administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted to
>>>>>> know, just not at the top. I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM
>>>>>> school about 5 years ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the
>>>>>> districts first involvement with opensource or community. The project has
>>>>>> been very very successful and it opened the doors to more. But then they
>>>>>> hired a new superintendent that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>>>>> linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School
>>>>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up
>>>>>>> talk to them and the head of the IT department. They had macbook air for
>>>>>>> the older kids and ipads for the younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>>>> end of the school day. This time they decided to go with cromebooks. It one
>>>>>>> of the best.. rated or testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but
>>>>>>> with the quality of the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give
>>>>>>> my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for
>>>>>>> life on their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off
>>>>>>> if they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, software,
>>>>>>> classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to choose, to not
>>>>>>> be scolded for breaking some license agreement or for reading and modifying
>>>>>>> code should that be an interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>>>> compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want to have as many
>>>>>>> resources available to provide for them, including reasons why schools
>>>>>>> frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the
>>>>>>> presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was;
>>>>>>> or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux
>>>>>>> and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open source or
>>>>>>> Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive.
>>>>>>> I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some information
>>>>>>> to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give them
>>>>>>> plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>>>> community! They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together
>>>>>>> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List
>>>>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:
>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List -
>>>>>> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 09:50:45 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:50:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com> <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGetRsv9w+swE7Z+jGBEF2HvFx=rKL-Po2r2QGnW4v=0A@mail.gmail.com>

one of the training videos i have, but this is in relation to linda's
arduino comment: UDEMY MASTER ARDUINO WITHOUT CODING TUTORIAL

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas in
> these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned the
> wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is just
> loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids
> under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of
> parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what
> this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it
> do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do
> something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it
> do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap
> wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials).
> that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED
> Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to
> 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
> unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they
> "should" see.
> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
> whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
> i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
> from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
> them interested to learn.
>
> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with varying
> interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
>
>> Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to better
>> understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take issue with your
>> assertion.
>>
>> We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years. And we
>> do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy, and housing in the
>> next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or social planning. We also know
>> there are a lot of guns and bad attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>>
>> Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed in
>> Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same ol in
>> Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>>
>>
>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>>> So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming program ...
>>> Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach programming logic without
>>> language.. There used to be something similar back in the day called
>>> bluejay which did something very similar but got people more ready for
>>> objects and was intended for college.
>>>
>>> Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are 15), we
>>> are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some new innovation. Logic
>>> to me is the key to everything. Arduino's are cool and already being used
>>> in most of the robot clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if
>>> they understand they have to speak to the device in it's language and build
>>> program's, I think they will be alright. I speak native solaris, but can
>>> move between os's like shoes cause I know how they work.
>>>
>>> Sorry for pontification.
>>>
>>> lk
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s -> early 80s my
>>>> first effort was to push those new microcomputers and even fiber optics. We
>>>> had a meeting in Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>>> somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that calculated liquid
>>>> crystal electro-optic properties. Old Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I
>>>> introduced as the "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>>> Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?" So the high
>>>> point of my career came and went, the internet happened, everything is
>>>> microcontroller controlled, lightweight displays are the norm, friends that
>>>> tried to automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke, Lowertown is
>>>> beautiful, Communist China is the world's biggest manufacturing economy.
>>>>
>>>> I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of programs.
>>>> IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm 90. I learned there is now a
>>>> Protein Data Bank, advanced programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to
>>>> draw molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how they exploit
>>>> the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I use is not in standard distros,
>>>> like FreePascal, but the "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian,"
>>>> the Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>>>
>>>> So when a couple of school computer administrators get praise for just
>>>> wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how they will ever catch up.
>>>>
>>>> r hayman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Relevancy.
>>>>> To remain relevant in many job fields, students must learn about open
>>>>> source software and Linux. To prepare our students and our future work
>>>>> force to be relevant when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>>>> business world need to be aligned and that alignment, in many ways is with
>>>>> open source software.
>>>>>
>>>>> Running open source or COTS software is seldom a business
>>>>> differentiator today, it may only be a (negative) differentiator based on
>>>>> licensing and support costs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate and environment
>>>>> research, simulations of all types, manufacturing, design, you name it, it
>>>>> predominantly runs on Linux and open source.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, visit https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ and filter
>>>>> on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies): Operating System,
>>>>> Application Area, and Segments.
>>>>>
>>>>> You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites in the world,
>>>>> not a single one runs either Windows or Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair
>>>>> over 3%, run something other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> When my kids were in High School I tried working with our school
>>>>>> district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get programming taught,
>>>>>> somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at least one MSWindows 95
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school because of an ice
>>>>>> storm
>>>>>> I called and they said I could install the QBasic from Windows, along
>>>>>> with program examples galore. So I left my kids home and drove to town
>>>>>> and installed it all. I later went to school board meetings and they
>>>>>> fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political" is an
>>>>>> understatement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know how kids can make
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> in the future without knowing electronics and programming. It seems
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard them
>>>>>> intellectually.
>>>>>> It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I started working with my school district about 10 years ago. The
>>>>>>> problems I find there are always political and never about technology. What
>>>>>>> worked for me is to find one champion in the system that speaks the
>>>>>>> administrations language. I found there were a ton of people who wanted to
>>>>>>> know, just not at the top. I introduced scratch to the elementary STEM
>>>>>>> school about 5 years ago, https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the
>>>>>>> districts first involvement with opensource or community. The project has
>>>>>>> been very very successful and it opened the doors to more. But then they
>>>>>>> hired a new superintendent that thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>>>>>> linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have already given one presentation at the Blair Taylor School
>>>>>>>> with the principal and an IT guy and have been asked to give a follow up
>>>>>>>> talk to them and the head of the IT department. They had macbook air for
>>>>>>>> the older kids and ipads for the younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>>>>> end of the school day. This time they decided to go with cromebooks. It one
>>>>>>>> of the best.. rated or testing, can't think of an appropriate word, but
>>>>>>>> with the quality of the teachers out here i am pretty sure they could give
>>>>>>>> my kids sticks and a box of sand and they would still be well prepared for
>>>>>>>> life on their own/college. I am 100% positive they will be much better off
>>>>>>>> if they can learn without restrictions from open source hardware, software,
>>>>>>>> classes (like MIT offers open courseware) and the ability to choose, to not
>>>>>>>> be scolded for breaking some license agreement or for reading and modifying
>>>>>>>> code should that be an interest. I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>>>>> compelling argument in the last meeting. This time I want to have as many
>>>>>>>> resources available to provide for them, including reasons why schools
>>>>>>>> frequently choose to not use Linux. Anything will help. I had quite the
>>>>>>>> presentation last time and the IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4 was;
>>>>>>>> or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu provides computers reloaded with Linux
>>>>>>>> and tablets so how they didn't find anything about open source or
>>>>>>>> Linux/BSD/ETC is beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on a thumb drive.
>>>>>>>> I wanted to make some more and use persistence to load up some information
>>>>>>>> to give to the IT people who are possibly way under informed, to give them
>>>>>>>> plenty of time on their own to absorb what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>>>>> community! They asked many questions about community. Yes we work together
>>>>>>>> and keep our favorite distributions alive often without corporate support!
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List
>>>>>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:
>>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List
>>>>>>> - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:
>>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
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From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Aug 23 13:53:57 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:53:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57BC9BC5.7080806@pinenet.com>

Besides being a good mother, you value learning, community, and even 
Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!

Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may I suggest 
other opportunity in your young family's future. Having mentioned the 
new atmospheric CO2 levels can grow plants faster, we also can improve 
soil quality with new carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking 
at black dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen related 
to CO2 emissions. It is called carbon sequestration. In our experience, 
we get phenomenal improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing 
a little child loves better than eating a homegrown strawberry. I hope 
you can enjoy such creative gifts with your family.

Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts, lifestyle, and a 
hopeful future sure beats competing for top barking dog status. As SuSE 
Linux says after installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.

Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas 
> in these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has 
> mentioned the wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my 
> overactive brain is just loving all the angles that you are offering 
> me to consider! we, 4 kids under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and 
> arduino uno. a small arsenal of parts i am accumulating. they get 
> direction in the form of: consider what this really is, wood, metal, 
> and plastic make up parts, but what makes it do what it is supposed to 
> do and why does it only do that? could it do something else. can you 
> put it inside of a different enclosure and have it do the same thing, 
> something different? I give them power tools and scrap wood (someday 
> when i have more tools i will offer them other materials). that gets 
> their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED 
> Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count 
> to 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides 
> unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they 
> "should" see.
> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading 
> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so 
> excited. whether the school provides the kind of things i would like 
> to see or not, i am learning so much and my children will be 
> benefiting from this speech from the way i am able to understand and 
> get through to them; have to get them interested to learn.
>
> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with 
> varying interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't 
> money!
> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com 
> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>
>     Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to
>     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take
>     issue with your assertion.
>
>     We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years.
>     And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy,
>     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or
>     social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad
>     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>
>     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed
>     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same
>     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>
>
>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>         So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming
>         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach
>         programming logic without language.. There used to be
>         something similar back in the day called bluejay which did
>         something very similar but got people more ready for objects
>         and was intended for college.
>
>         Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are
>         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some
>         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to everything.
>         Arduino's are cool and already being used in most of the robot
>         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if they
>         understand they have to speak to the device in it's language
>         and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak
>         native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I
>         know how they work.
>
>         Sorry for pontification.
>
>         lk
>
>
>         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
>             Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s ->
>             early 80s my first effort was to push those new
>             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We had a meeting in
>             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that
>             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old
>             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the
>             "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?"
>             So the high point of my career came and went, the internet
>             happened, everything is microcontroller controlled,
>             lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to
>             automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke,
>             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the world's
>             biggest manufacturing economy.
>
>             I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of
>             programs. IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm
>             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data Bank, advanced
>             programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to draw
>             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how
>             they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I
>             use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the
>             "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the
>             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>
>             So when a couple of school computer administrators get
>             praise for just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how
>             they will ever catch up.
>
>             r hayman wrote:
>
>                 Relevancy.
>                 To remain relevant in many job fields, students must
>                 learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare
>                 our students and our future work force to be relevant
>                 when they enter the work force, academia and the
>                 business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
>                 in many ways is with open source software.
>
>                 Running open source or COTS software is seldom a
>                 business differentiator today, it may only be a
>                 (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>                 support costs.
>
>                 Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate
>                 and environment research, simulations of all types,
>                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly
>                 runs on Linux and open source.
>
>                 For example, visit
>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter
>                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies):
>                 Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
>
>                 You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites
>                 in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or
>                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something
>                 other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>
>
>
>                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
>                     When my kids were in High School I tried working
>                     with our school
>                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get
>                     programming taught,
>                     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at
>                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>                     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school
>                     because of an ice storm
>                     I called and they said I could install the QBasic
>                     from Windows, along
>                     with program examples galore. So I left my kids
>                     home and drove to town
>                     and installed it all. I later went to school board
>                     meetings and they
>                     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political"
>                     is an understatement.
>
>                     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know
>                     how kids can make it
>                     in the future without knowing electronics and
>                     programming. It seems they
>                     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard
>                     them intellectually.
>                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>
>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>                         I started working with my school district
>                         about 10 years ago. The problems I find there
>                         are always political and never about
>                         technology. What worked for me is to find one
>                         champion in the system that speaks the
>                         administrations language. I found there were a
>                         ton of people who wanted to know, just not at
>                         the top. I introduced scratch to the
>                         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>                         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts
>                         first involvement with opensource or
>                         community. The project has been very very
>                         successful and it opened the doors to more.
>                         But then they hired a new superintendent that
>                         thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
>                             I have already given one presentation at
>                             the Blair Taylor School with the principal
>                             and an IT guy and have been asked to give
>                             a follow up talk to them and the head of
>                             the IT department. They had macbook air
>                             for the older kids and ipads for the
>                             younger ones. They bring these home at the
>                             end of the school day. This time they
>                             decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>                             the best.. rated or testing, can't think
>                             of an appropriate word, but with the
>                             quality of the teachers out here i am
>                             pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>                             and a box of sand and they would still be
>                             well prepared for life on their
>                             own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>                             be much better off if they can learn
>                             without restrictions from open source
>                             hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>                             offers open courseware) and the ability to
>                             choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>                             some license agreement or for reading and
>                             modifying code should that be an interest.
>                             I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>                             compelling argument in the last meeting.
>                             This time I want to have as many resources
>                             available to provide for them, including
>                             reasons why schools frequently choose to
>                             not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
>                             quite the presentation last time and the
>                             IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>                             was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>                             provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>                             tablets so how they didn't find anything
>                             about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>                             beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on
>                             a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more
>                             and use persistence to load up some
>                             information to give to the IT people who
>                             are possibly way under informed, to give
>                             them plenty of time on their own to absorb
>                             what open source has to offer; mostly
>                             community! They asked many questions about
>                             community. Yes we work together and keep
>                             our favorite distributions alive often
>                             without corporate support!
>                             _______________________________________________
>                             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>                             Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>                             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>                             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>                         _______________________________________________ TCLUG
>                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>                         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>                         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>                         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>
>                     _______________________________________________
>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 16:47:42 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:47:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <57BC9BC5.7080806@pinenet.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com> <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BC9BC5.7080806@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGPp-3YuycZAc0ng=+UgqfYOtkMMGdDUcu3-h2CmCJ47w@mail.gmail.com>

   i am a stay at home father. my wife went to Le Cordon Bleu for college.
when I had a medical break in my career, she took over and i never looked
back.
   we do have a garden and "we grow our own money" as i have heard said in
some random TED Talk. also interested in this TED Talk about microbes:
https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_age_technology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en
but have yet to indulge myself.
   i would like to do something positive for people, to make a difference
with my time, not only for me but for others. I used to be a part of Rotary
International for years. I like to give. I feel as though with the time on
my hands i can do something for me while showing my kids what can be
accomplished. should i fall short of this goal, i will have raised my 4
children to be aware that they can do things that make life fair for all
people.
   and to further wander off topic my long term personal goal is to get
land and a wind generator made from scratch, then have it make me money
with our average 12 mph wind speed. then build more. but that is for me to
make money, not to feel good about myself.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:

> Besides being a good mother, you value learning, community, and even
> Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!
>
> Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may I suggest other
> opportunity in your young family's future. Having mentioned the new
> atmospheric CO2 levels can grow plants faster, we also can improve soil
> quality with new carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking at black
> dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen related to CO2
> emissions. It is called carbon sequestration. In our experience, we get
> phenomenal improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing a little
> child loves better than eating a homegrown strawberry. I hope you can enjoy
> such creative gifts with your family.
>
> Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts, lifestyle, and a
> hopeful future sure beats competing for top barking dog status. As SuSE
> Linux says after installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.
>
> Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
>> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas in
>> these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned the
>> wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is just
>> loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids
>> under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of
>> parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what
>> this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it
>> do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do
>> something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it
>> do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap
>> wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials).
>> that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED
>> Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to
>> 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
>> unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they
>> "should" see.
>> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
>> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
>> whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
>> i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
>> from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
>> them interested to learn.
>>
>> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with varying
>> interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
>> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com
>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to
>>     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take
>>     issue with your assertion.
>>
>>     We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years.
>>     And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy,
>>     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or
>>     social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad
>>     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>>
>>     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed
>>     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same
>>     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>>
>>
>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>>         So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming
>>         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach
>>         programming logic without language.. There used to be
>>         something similar back in the day called bluejay which did
>>         something very similar but got people more ready for objects
>>         and was intended for college.
>>
>>         Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are
>>         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some
>>         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to everything.
>>         Arduino's are cool and already being used in most of the robot
>>         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if they
>>         understand they have to speak to the device in it's language
>>         and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak
>>         native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I
>>         know how they work.
>>
>>         Sorry for pontification.
>>
>>         lk
>>
>>
>>         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>
>>             Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s ->
>>             early 80s my first effort was to push those new
>>             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We had a meeting in
>>             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that
>>             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old
>>             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the
>>             "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?"
>>             So the high point of my career came and went, the internet
>>             happened, everything is microcontroller controlled,
>>             lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to
>>             automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke,
>>             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the world's
>>             biggest manufacturing economy.
>>
>>             I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of
>>             programs. IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm
>>             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data Bank, advanced
>>             programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to draw
>>             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how
>>             they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I
>>             use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the
>>             "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the
>>             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>
>>             So when a couple of school computer administrators get
>>             praise for just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how
>>             they will ever catch up.
>>
>>             r hayman wrote:
>>
>>                 Relevancy.
>>                 To remain relevant in many job fields, students must
>>                 learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare
>>                 our students and our future work force to be relevant
>>                 when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>                 business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
>>                 in many ways is with open source software.
>>
>>                 Running open source or COTS software is seldom a
>>                 business differentiator today, it may only be a
>>                 (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>>                 support costs.
>>
>>                 Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate
>>                 and environment research, simulations of all types,
>>                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly
>>                 runs on Linux and open source.
>>
>>                 For example, visit
>>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter
>>                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies):
>>                 Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>
>>                 You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites
>>                 in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or
>>                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something
>>                 other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>
>>                     When my kids were in High School I tried working
>>                     with our school
>>                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get
>>                     programming taught,
>>                     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at
>>                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>>                     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school
>>                     because of an ice storm
>>                     I called and they said I could install the QBasic
>>                     from Windows, along
>>                     with program examples galore. So I left my kids
>>                     home and drove to town
>>                     and installed it all. I later went to school board
>>                     meetings and they
>>                     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political"
>>                     is an understatement.
>>
>>                     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know
>>                     how kids can make it
>>                     in the future without knowing electronics and
>>                     programming. It seems they
>>                     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard
>>                     them intellectually.
>>                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>
>>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>
>>                         I started working with my school district
>>                         about 10 years ago. The problems I find there
>>                         are always political and never about
>>                         technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>                         champion in the system that speaks the
>>                         administrations language. I found there were a
>>                         ton of people who wanted to know, just not at
>>                         the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>                         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>                         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts
>>                         first involvement with opensource or
>>                         community. The project has been very very
>>                         successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>                         But then they hired a new superintendent that
>>                         thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>
>>                             I have already given one presentation at
>>                             the Blair Taylor School with the principal
>>                             and an IT guy and have been asked to give
>>                             a follow up talk to them and the head of
>>                             the IT department. They had macbook air
>>                             for the older kids and ipads for the
>>                             younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>                             end of the school day. This time they
>>                             decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>>                             the best.. rated or testing, can't think
>>                             of an appropriate word, but with the
>>                             quality of the teachers out here i am
>>                             pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>>                             and a box of sand and they would still be
>>                             well prepared for life on their
>>                             own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>>                             be much better off if they can learn
>>                             without restrictions from open source
>>                             hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>>                             offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>                             choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>>                             some license agreement or for reading and
>>                             modifying code should that be an interest.
>>                             I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>                             compelling argument in the last meeting.
>>                             This time I want to have as many resources
>>                             available to provide for them, including
>>                             reasons why schools frequently choose to
>>                             not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
>>                             quite the presentation last time and the
>>                             IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>                             was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>>                             provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>>                             tablets so how they didn't find anything
>>                             about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>                             beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on
>>                             a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more
>>                             and use persistence to load up some
>>                             information to give to the IT people who
>>                             are possibly way under informed, to give
>>                             them plenty of time on their own to absorb
>>                             what open source has to offer; mostly
>>                             community! They asked many questions about
>>                             community. Yes we work together and keep
>>                             our favorite distributions alive often
>>                             without corporate support!
>>                             ______________________________
>> _________________
>>                             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>                             Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>                             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>                             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>                         _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG
>>                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>                         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>                         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>                         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                     _______________________________________________
>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>
>>                 _______________________________________________
>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 16:49:14 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:49:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGPp-3YuycZAc0ng=+UgqfYOtkMMGdDUcu3-h2CmCJ47w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com> <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BC9BC5.7080806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOGPp-3YuycZAc0ng=+UgqfYOtkMMGdDUcu3-h2CmCJ47w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFhY-BoHn=qMyVdDVF_D5UWyEqzCz3y7oKCpEGrHoUnRw@mail.gmail.com>

oh, and thank you for your kind words about my parenting and my in site.
that is uplifting.  and true, ayyyyyyy

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

>    i am a stay at home father. my wife went to Le Cordon Bleu for college.
> when I had a medical break in my career, she took over and i never looked
> back.
>    we do have a garden and "we grow our own money" as i have heard said in
> some random TED Talk. also interested in this TED Talk about microbes:
> https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_
> age_technology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en but have yet to
> indulge myself.
>    i would like to do something positive for people, to make a difference
> with my time, not only for me but for others. I used to be a part of Rotary
> International for years. I like to give. I feel as though with the time on
> my hands i can do something for me while showing my kids what can be
> accomplished. should i fall short of this goal, i will have raised my 4
> children to be aware that they can do things that make life fair for all
> people.
>    and to further wander off topic my long term personal goal is to get
> land and a wind generator made from scratch, then have it make me money
> with our average 12 mph wind speed. then build more. but that is for me to
> make money, not to feel good about myself.
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
>
>> Besides being a good mother, you value learning, community, and even
>> Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!
>>
>> Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may I suggest other
>> opportunity in your young family's future. Having mentioned the new
>> atmospheric CO2 levels can grow plants faster, we also can improve soil
>> quality with new carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking at black
>> dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen related to CO2
>> emissions. It is called carbon sequestration. In our experience, we get
>> phenomenal improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing a little
>> child loves better than eating a homegrown strawberry. I hope you can enjoy
>> such creative gifts with your family.
>>
>> Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts, lifestyle, and a
>> hopeful future sure beats competing for top barking dog status. As SuSE
>> Linux says after installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.
>>
>> Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>
>>> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas
>>> in these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned
>>> the wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is
>>> just loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids
>>> under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of
>>> parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what
>>> this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it
>>> do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do
>>> something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it
>>> do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap
>>> wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials).
>>> that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED
>>> Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to
>>> 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
>>> unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they
>>> "should" see.
>>> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
>>> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
>>> whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
>>> i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
>>> from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
>>> them interested to learn.
>>>
>>> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with
>>> varying interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
>>> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com
>>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to
>>>     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take
>>>     issue with your assertion.
>>>
>>>     We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years.
>>>     And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy,
>>>     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or
>>>     social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad
>>>     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>>>
>>>     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed
>>>     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same
>>>     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>
>>>         So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming
>>>         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach
>>>         programming logic without language.. There used to be
>>>         something similar back in the day called bluejay which did
>>>         something very similar but got people more ready for objects
>>>         and was intended for college.
>>>
>>>         Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are
>>>         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some
>>>         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to everything.
>>>         Arduino's are cool and already being used in most of the robot
>>>         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if they
>>>         understand they have to speak to the device in it's language
>>>         and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak
>>>         native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I
>>>         know how they work.
>>>
>>>         Sorry for pontification.
>>>
>>>         lk
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>
>>>             Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s ->
>>>             early 80s my first effort was to push those new
>>>             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We had a meeting in
>>>             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>>             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that
>>>             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old
>>>             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the
>>>             "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>>             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?"
>>>             So the high point of my career came and went, the internet
>>>             happened, everything is microcontroller controlled,
>>>             lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to
>>>             automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke,
>>>             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the world's
>>>             biggest manufacturing economy.
>>>
>>>             I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of
>>>             programs. IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm
>>>             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data Bank, advanced
>>>             programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to draw
>>>             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how
>>>             they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I
>>>             use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the
>>>             "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the
>>>             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>>
>>>             So when a couple of school computer administrators get
>>>             praise for just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how
>>>             they will ever catch up.
>>>
>>>             r hayman wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Relevancy.
>>>                 To remain relevant in many job fields, students must
>>>                 learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare
>>>                 our students and our future work force to be relevant
>>>                 when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>>                 business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
>>>                 in many ways is with open source software.
>>>
>>>                 Running open source or COTS software is seldom a
>>>                 business differentiator today, it may only be a
>>>                 (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>>>                 support costs.
>>>
>>>                 Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate
>>>                 and environment research, simulations of all types,
>>>                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly
>>>                 runs on Linux and open source.
>>>
>>>                 For example, visit
>>>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter
>>>                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies):
>>>                 Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>>
>>>                 You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites
>>>                 in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or
>>>                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something
>>>                 other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     When my kids were in High School I tried working
>>>                     with our school
>>>                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get
>>>                     programming taught,
>>>                     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at
>>>                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>>>                     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school
>>>                     because of an ice storm
>>>                     I called and they said I could install the QBasic
>>>                     from Windows, along
>>>                     with program examples galore. So I left my kids
>>>                     home and drove to town
>>>                     and installed it all. I later went to school board
>>>                     meetings and they
>>>                     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political"
>>>                     is an understatement.
>>>
>>>                     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know
>>>                     how kids can make it
>>>                     in the future without knowing electronics and
>>>                     programming. It seems they
>>>                     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard
>>>                     them intellectually.
>>>                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>
>>>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>
>>>                         I started working with my school district
>>>                         about 10 years ago. The problems I find there
>>>                         are always political and never about
>>>                         technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>>                         champion in the system that speaks the
>>>                         administrations language. I found there were a
>>>                         ton of people who wanted to know, just not at
>>>                         the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>>                         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>>                         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts
>>>                         first involvement with opensource or
>>>                         community. The project has been very very
>>>                         successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>>                         But then they hired a new superintendent that
>>>                         thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>>                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>
>>>                             I have already given one presentation at
>>>                             the Blair Taylor School with the principal
>>>                             and an IT guy and have been asked to give
>>>                             a follow up talk to them and the head of
>>>                             the IT department. They had macbook air
>>>                             for the older kids and ipads for the
>>>                             younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>                             end of the school day. This time they
>>>                             decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>>>                             the best.. rated or testing, can't think
>>>                             of an appropriate word, but with the
>>>                             quality of the teachers out here i am
>>>                             pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>>>                             and a box of sand and they would still be
>>>                             well prepared for life on their
>>>                             own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>>>                             be much better off if they can learn
>>>                             without restrictions from open source
>>>                             hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>>>                             offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>>                             choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>>>                             some license agreement or for reading and
>>>                             modifying code should that be an interest.
>>>                             I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>                             compelling argument in the last meeting.
>>>                             This time I want to have as many resources
>>>                             available to provide for them, including
>>>                             reasons why schools frequently choose to
>>>                             not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
>>>                             quite the presentation last time and the
>>>                             IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>>                             was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>>>                             provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>>>                             tablets so how they didn't find anything
>>>                             about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>>                             beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on
>>>                             a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more
>>>                             and use persistence to load up some
>>>                             information to give to the IT people who
>>>                             are possibly way under informed, to give
>>>                             them plenty of time on their own to absorb
>>>                             what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>                             community! They asked many questions about
>>>                             community. Yes we work together and keep
>>>                             our favorite distributions alive often
>>>                             without corporate support!
>>>                             ______________________________
>>> _________________
>>>                             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>                             Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>                             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>                             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>                         _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG
>>>                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>                         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>                         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>                         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 16:52:43 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:52:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFhY-BoHn=qMyVdDVF_D5UWyEqzCz3y7oKCpEGrHoUnRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com> <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BC9BC5.7080806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOGPp-3YuycZAc0ng=+UgqfYOtkMMGdDUcu3-h2CmCJ47w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFhY-BoHn=qMyVdDVF_D5UWyEqzCz3y7oKCpEGrHoUnRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOEdAq5fsE3ENG9WKYwBVZyPY7+FV58s6i_htdd78uVY3A@mail.gmail.com>

oculus rift reminds me of an article i read in mid 2000's about augmented
reality and how they were working on overlays for the various things you
would want to know about something like a building.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> oh, and thank you for your kind words about my parenting and my in site.
> that is uplifting.  and true, ayyyyyyy
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>    i am a stay at home father. my wife went to Le Cordon Bleu for
>> college. when I had a medical break in my career, she took over and i never
>> looked back.
>>    we do have a garden and "we grow our own money" as i have heard said
>> in some random TED Talk. also interested in this TED Talk about microbes:
>> https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_age_
>> technology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en but have yet to
>> indulge myself.
>>    i would like to do something positive for people, to make a difference
>> with my time, not only for me but for others. I used to be a part of Rotary
>> International for years. I like to give. I feel as though with the time on
>> my hands i can do something for me while showing my kids what can be
>> accomplished. should i fall short of this goal, i will have raised my 4
>> children to be aware that they can do things that make life fair for all
>> people.
>>    and to further wander off topic my long term personal goal is to get
>> land and a wind generator made from scratch, then have it make me money
>> with our average 12 mph wind speed. then build more. but that is for me to
>> make money, not to feel good about myself.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Besides being a good mother, you value learning, community, and even
>>> Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!
>>>
>>> Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may I suggest
>>> other opportunity in your young family's future. Having mentioned the new
>>> atmospheric CO2 levels can grow plants faster, we also can improve soil
>>> quality with new carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking at black
>>> dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen related to CO2
>>> emissions. It is called carbon sequestration. In our experience, we get
>>> phenomenal improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing a little
>>> child loves better than eating a homegrown strawberry. I hope you can enjoy
>>> such creative gifts with your family.
>>>
>>> Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts, lifestyle, and a
>>> hopeful future sure beats competing for top barking dog status. As SuSE
>>> Linux says after installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.
>>>
>>> Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>
>>>> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas
>>>> in these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned
>>>> the wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is
>>>> just loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids
>>>> under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of
>>>> parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what
>>>> this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it
>>>> do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do
>>>> something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it
>>>> do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap
>>>> wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials).
>>>> that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED
>>>> Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to
>>>> 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
>>>> unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they
>>>> "should" see.
>>>> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
>>>> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
>>>> whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
>>>> i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
>>>> from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
>>>> them interested to learn.
>>>>
>>>> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with
>>>> varying interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
>>>> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com
>>>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to
>>>>     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take
>>>>     issue with your assertion.
>>>>
>>>>     We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years.
>>>>     And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy,
>>>>     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or
>>>>     social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad
>>>>     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>>>>
>>>>     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed
>>>>     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same
>>>>     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming
>>>>         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach
>>>>         programming logic without language.. There used to be
>>>>         something similar back in the day called bluejay which did
>>>>         something very similar but got people more ready for objects
>>>>         and was intended for college.
>>>>
>>>>         Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are
>>>>         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some
>>>>         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to everything.
>>>>         Arduino's are cool and already being used in most of the robot
>>>>         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if they
>>>>         understand they have to speak to the device in it's language
>>>>         and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak
>>>>         native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I
>>>>         know how they work.
>>>>
>>>>         Sorry for pontification.
>>>>
>>>>         lk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s ->
>>>>             early 80s my first effort was to push those new
>>>>             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We had a meeting in
>>>>             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>>>             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that
>>>>             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old
>>>>             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the
>>>>             "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>>>             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?"
>>>>             So the high point of my career came and went, the internet
>>>>             happened, everything is microcontroller controlled,
>>>>             lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to
>>>>             automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke,
>>>>             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the world's
>>>>             biggest manufacturing economy.
>>>>
>>>>             I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of
>>>>             programs. IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm
>>>>             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data Bank, advanced
>>>>             programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to draw
>>>>             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how
>>>>             they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I
>>>>             use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the
>>>>             "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the
>>>>             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>>>
>>>>             So when a couple of school computer administrators get
>>>>             praise for just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how
>>>>             they will ever catch up.
>>>>
>>>>             r hayman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 Relevancy.
>>>>                 To remain relevant in many job fields, students must
>>>>                 learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare
>>>>                 our students and our future work force to be relevant
>>>>                 when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>>>                 business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
>>>>                 in many ways is with open source software.
>>>>
>>>>                 Running open source or COTS software is seldom a
>>>>                 business differentiator today, it may only be a
>>>>                 (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>>>>                 support costs.
>>>>
>>>>                 Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate
>>>>                 and environment research, simulations of all types,
>>>>                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly
>>>>                 runs on Linux and open source.
>>>>
>>>>                 For example, visit
>>>>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>>>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter
>>>>                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies):
>>>>                 Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>>>
>>>>                 You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites
>>>>                 in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or
>>>>                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something
>>>>                 other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                     When my kids were in High School I tried working
>>>>                     with our school
>>>>                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get
>>>>                     programming taught,
>>>>                     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at
>>>>                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>>>>                     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school
>>>>                     because of an ice storm
>>>>                     I called and they said I could install the QBasic
>>>>                     from Windows, along
>>>>                     with program examples galore. So I left my kids
>>>>                     home and drove to town
>>>>                     and installed it all. I later went to school board
>>>>                     meetings and they
>>>>                     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political"
>>>>                     is an understatement.
>>>>
>>>>                     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know
>>>>                     how kids can make it
>>>>                     in the future without knowing electronics and
>>>>                     programming. It seems they
>>>>                     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard
>>>>                     them intellectually.
>>>>                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>>
>>>>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                         I started working with my school district
>>>>                         about 10 years ago. The problems I find there
>>>>                         are always political and never about
>>>>                         technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>>>                         champion in the system that speaks the
>>>>                         administrations language. I found there were a
>>>>                         ton of people who wanted to know, just not at
>>>>                         the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>>>                         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>>>                         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts
>>>>                         first involvement with opensource or
>>>>                         community. The project has been very very
>>>>                         successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>>>                         But then they hired a new superintendent that
>>>>                         thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>>>                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                             I have already given one presentation at
>>>>                             the Blair Taylor School with the principal
>>>>                             and an IT guy and have been asked to give
>>>>                             a follow up talk to them and the head of
>>>>                             the IT department. They had macbook air
>>>>                             for the older kids and ipads for the
>>>>                             younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>                             end of the school day. This time they
>>>>                             decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>>>>                             the best.. rated or testing, can't think
>>>>                             of an appropriate word, but with the
>>>>                             quality of the teachers out here i am
>>>>                             pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>>>>                             and a box of sand and they would still be
>>>>                             well prepared for life on their
>>>>                             own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>>>>                             be much better off if they can learn
>>>>                             without restrictions from open source
>>>>                             hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>>>>                             offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>>>                             choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>>>>                             some license agreement or for reading and
>>>>                             modifying code should that be an interest.
>>>>                             I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>                             compelling argument in the last meeting.
>>>>                             This time I want to have as many resources
>>>>                             available to provide for them, including
>>>>                             reasons why schools frequently choose to
>>>>                             not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
>>>>                             quite the presentation last time and the
>>>>                             IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>>>                             was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>>>>                             provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>>>>                             tablets so how they didn't find anything
>>>>                             about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>>>                             beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on
>>>>                             a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more
>>>>                             and use persistence to load up some
>>>>                             information to give to the IT people who
>>>>                             are possibly way under informed, to give
>>>>                             them plenty of time on their own to absorb
>>>>                             what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>                             community! They asked many questions about
>>>>                             community. Yes we work together and keep
>>>>                             our favorite distributions alive often
>>>>                             without corporate support!
>>>>                             ______________________________
>>>> _________________
>>>>                             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>>                             Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>                             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>                             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                         _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG
>>>>                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>                         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>                         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>                         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> >
>>>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>> <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>
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From lkateley at kateley.com  Tue Aug 23 18:04:52 2016
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:04:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEdAq5fsE3ENG9WKYwBVZyPY7+FV58s6i_htdd78uVY3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BC9BC5.7080806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOGPp-3YuycZAc0ng=+UgqfYOtkMMGdDUcu3-h2CmCJ47w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFhY-BoHn=qMyVdDVF_D5UWyEqzCz3y7oKCpEGrHoUnRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEdAq5fsE3ENG9WKYwBVZyPY7+FV58s6i_htdd78uVY3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce406fde-1a67-7e97-64ce-79448d20cdd9@kateley.com>

One of my friends is an investor in oculus rift. You can buy the dev kit 
for like $300 if i remember right..


On 8/23/16 4:52 PM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> oculus rift reminds me of an article i read in mid 2000's about 
> augmented reality and how they were working on overlays for the 
> various things you would want to know about something like a building.
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Sandwhich Eyes 
> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     oh, and thank you for your kind words about my parenting and my in
>     site. that is uplifting.  and true, ayyyyyyy
>
>     On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Sandwhich Eyes
>     <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>            i am a stay at home father. my wife went to Le Cordon Bleu
>         for college. when I had a medical break in my career, she took
>         over and i never looked back.
>            we do have a garden and "we grow our own money" as i have
>         heard said in some random TED Talk. also interested in this
>         TED Talk about microbes:
>         https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_age_technology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en
>         <https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_age_technology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en>
>         but have yet to indulge myself.
>            i would like to do something positive for people, to make a
>         difference with my time, not only for me but for others. I
>         used to be a part of Rotary International for years. I like to
>         give. I feel as though with the time on my hands i can do
>         something for me while showing my kids what can be
>         accomplished. should i fall short of this goal, i will have
>         raised my 4 children to be aware that they can do things that
>         make life fair for all people.
>            and to further wander off topic my long term personal goal
>         is to get land and a wind generator made from scratch, then
>         have it make me money with our average 12 mph wind speed. then
>         build more. but that is for me to make money, not to feel good
>         about myself.
>
>         On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Rick Engebretson
>         <eng at pinenet.com <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>
>             Besides being a good mother, you value learning,
>             community, and even Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!
>
>             Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may
>             I suggest other opportunity in your young family's future.
>             Having mentioned the new atmospheric CO2 levels can grow
>             plants faster, we also can improve soil quality with new
>             carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking at black
>             dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen
>             related to CO2 emissions. It is called carbon
>             sequestration. In our experience, we get phenomenal
>             improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing a
>             little child loves better than eating a homegrown
>             strawberry. I hope you can enjoy such creative gifts with
>             your family.
>
>             Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts,
>             lifestyle, and a hopeful future sure beats competing for
>             top barking dog status. As SuSE Linux says after
>             installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.
>
>             Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
>                 i have spent many hours reading as much as i can
>                 handle from the ideas in these responses. i am barely
>                 beyond the last point that i has mentioned the
>                 wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my
>                 overactive brain is just loving all the angles that
>                 you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids under 8
>                 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small
>                 arsenal of parts i am accumulating. they get direction
>                 in the form of: consider what this really is, wood,
>                 metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it do
>                 what it is supposed to do and why does it only do
>                 that? could it do something else. can you put it
>                 inside of a different enclosure and have it do the
>                 same thing, something different? I give them power
>                 tools and scrap wood (someday when i have more tools i
>                 will offer them other materials). that gets their
>                 brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from
>                 a TED Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and
>                 nails etc... she can count to 26. was 2 in jan.
>                 providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
>                 unlimited options) and directions for them to look,
>                 never what they "should" see.
>                 I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend
>                 more time reading through this 1 email at a time doing
>                 research all the way. I am so excited. whether the
>                 school provides the kind of things i would like to see
>                 or not, i am learning so much and my children will be
>                 benefiting from this speech from the way i am able to
>                 understand and get through to them; have to get them
>                 interested to learn.
>
>                 Community! so many different people from so many
>                 backgrounds with varying interests come together with
>                 a common interest; and it isn't money!
>                 Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>
>                 On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson
>                 <eng at pinenet.com <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>
>                 <mailto:eng at pinenet.com <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>>> wrote:
>
>                     Having separately suggested a specific Linux
>                 software use to
>                     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake
>                 of kids I take
>                     issue with your assertion.
>
>                     We do know the global population has doubled in
>                 the last 50 years.
>                     And we do know kids will face shortages of food,
>                 water, energy,
>                     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or
>                 arithmetic or
>                     social planning. We also know there are a lot of
>                 guns and bad
>                     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>
>                     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some
>                 actually employed
>                     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are
>                 eager. Same ol, same
>                     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>
>
>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>                         So that's the reason I pointed them to that
>                 mit programming
>                         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it
>                 is way to teach
>                         programming logic without language.. There
>                 used to be
>                         something similar back in the day called
>                 bluejay which did
>                         something very similar but got people more
>                 ready for objects
>                         and was intended for college.
>
>                         Whatever we think it is going to be like for
>                 them(my kids are
>                         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else
>                 will come. Some
>                         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to
>                 everything.
>                         Arduino's are cool and already being used in
>                 most of the robot
>                         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move..
>                 but if they
>                         understand they have to speak to the device in
>                 it's language
>                         and build program's, I think they will be
>                 alright. I speak
>                         native solaris, but can move between os's like
>                 shoes cause I
>                         know how they work.
>
>                         Sorry for pontification.
>
>                         lk
>
>
>                         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
>                             Having done Biophysics grad school in the
>                 late 1970s ->
>                             early 80s my first effort was to push
>                 those new
>                             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We
>                 had a meeting in
>                             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an
>                 Epson QX10 and
>                             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide
>                 structure that
>                             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic
>                 properties. Old
>                             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I
>                 introduced as the
>                             "father of digital electronics" by
>                 throwing out some new
>                             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked,
>                 "Who did this?"
>                             So the high point of my career came and
>                 went, the internet
>                             happened, everything is microcontroller
>                 controlled,
>                             lightweight displays are the norm, friends
>                 that tried to
>                             automate factories with pneumatic controls
>                 are broke,
>                             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is
>                 the world's
>                             biggest manufacturing economy.
>
>                             I like SuSE Linux because they always
>                 included hundreds of
>                             programs. IBM data explorer is worth
>                 learning before I'm
>                             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data
>                 Bank, advanced
>                             programs to use it, and a nice
>                 XScreensaver to draw
>                             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am
>                 surprised how
>                             they exploit the Unix terminal connection.
>                 Most stuff I
>                             use is not in standard distros, like
>                 FreePascal, but the
>                             "forms library," oddly enough is in
>                 "Raspbian," the
>                             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>
>                             So when a couple of school computer
>                 administrators get
>                             praise for just wanting to hear about
>                 Linux, I wonder how
>                             they will ever catch up.
>
>                             r hayman wrote:
>
>                                 Relevancy.
>                                 To remain relevant in many job fields,
>                 students must
>                                 learn about open source software and
>                 Linux. To prepare
>                                 our students and our future work force
>                 to be relevant
>                                 when they enter the work force,
>                 academia and the
>                                 business world need to be aligned and
>                 that alignment,
>                                 in many ways is with open source software.
>
>                                 Running open source or COTS software
>                 is seldom a
>                                 business differentiator today, it may
>                 only be a
>                                 (negative) differentiator based on
>                 licensing and
>                                 support costs.
>
>                                 Pharmaceutical research, weather
>                 forecasting, climate
>                                 and environment research, simulations
>                 of all types,
>                                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it
>                 predominantly
>                                 runs on Linux and open source.
>
>                                 For example, visit
>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/>
>                                
>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/>> and filter
>                                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then
>                 Category(ies):
>                                 Operating System, Application Area,
>                 and Segments.
>
>                                 You will find that of the top 500
>                 supercomputer sites
>                                 in the world, not a single one runs
>                 either Windows or
>                                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over
>                 3%, run something
>                                 other than some obvious distribution
>                 of Linux.
>
>
>
>                                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500,
>                 Rick Engebretson wrote:
>
>                                     When my kids were in High School I
>                 tried working
>                                     with our school
>                                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998
>                 just to get
>                                     programming taught,
>                                     somewhere. The school used all
>                 Macs but had at
>                                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>                                     some kind of lab. On a day they
>                 canceled school
>                                     because of an ice storm
>                                     I called and they said I could
>                 install the QBasic
>                                     from Windows, along
>                                     with program examples galore. So I
>                 left my kids
>                                     home and drove to town
>                                     and installed it all. I later went
>                 to school board
>                                     meetings and they
>                                     fought me until my kids all
>                 graduated. "Political"
>                                     is an understatement.
>
>                                     I use Linux because I can program
>                 it. I don't know
>                                     how kids can make it
>                                     in the future without knowing
>                 electronics and
>                                     programming. It seems they
>                                     are trying to cripple kids with
>                 sports, and retard
>                                     them intellectually.
>                                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>
>                                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>
>                                         I started working with my
>                 school district
>                                         about 10 years ago. The
>                 problems I find there
>                                         are always political and never
>                 about
>                 technology. What worked for me is to find one
>                                         champion in the system that
>                 speaks the
>                 administrations language. I found there were a
>                                         ton of people who wanted to
>                 know, just not at
>                                         the top. I introduced scratch
>                 to the
>                                         elementary STEM school about 5
>                 years ago,
>                 https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts
>                                         first involvement with
>                 opensource or
>                                         community. The project has
>                 been very very
>                                         successful and it opened the
>                 doors to more.
>                                         But then they hired a new
>                 superintendent that
>                                         thought it was stupid so..that
>                 happened ;(
>                                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM,
>                 Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
>                                             I have already given one
>                 presentation at
>                                             the Blair Taylor School
>                 with the principal
>                                             and an IT guy and have
>                 been asked to give
>                                             a follow up talk to them
>                 and the head of
>                                             the IT department. They
>                 had macbook air
>                                             for the older kids and
>                 ipads for the
>                 younger ones. They bring these home at the
>                                             end of the school day.
>                 This time they
>                 decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>                                             the best.. rated or
>                 testing, can't think
>                                             of an appropriate word,
>                 but with the
>                 quality of the teachers out here i am
>                                             pretty sure they could
>                 give my kids sticks
>                                             and a box of sand and they
>                 would still be
>                                             well prepared for life on
>                 their
>                 own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>                                             be much better off if they
>                 can learn
>                 without restrictions from open source
>                 hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>                                             offers open courseware)
>                 and the ability to
>                 choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>                                             some license agreement or
>                 for reading and
>                 modifying code should that be an interest.
>                                             I want them to have Linux.
>                 I have gave a
>                 compelling argument in the last meeting.
>                                             This time I want to have
>                 as many resources
>                 available to provide for them, including
>                 reasons why schools frequently choose to
>                                             not use Linux. Anything
>                 will help. I had
>                                             quite the presentation
>                 last time and the
>                                             IT guy didn't know what
>                 Unix or BSD 4.4
>                                             was; or Linux, BSD,
>                 Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>                 provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>                 tablets so how they didn't find anything
>                                             about open source or
>                 Linux/BSD/ETC is
>                                             beyond me. I gave them a
>                 live Ubuntu OS on
>                                             a thumb drive. I wanted to
>                 make some more
>                                             and use persistence to
>                 load up some
>                 information to give to the IT people who
>                                             are possibly way under
>                 informed, to give
>                                             them plenty of time on
>                 their own to absorb
>                                             what open source has to
>                 offer; mostly
>                 community! They asked many questions about
>                 community. Yes we work together and keep
>                                             our favorite distributions
>                 alive often
>                 without corporate support!
>                 _______________________________________________
>                                             TCLUG Mailing List -
>                 Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>                 Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>>
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>                                            
>                 <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>                 <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>>
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________ TCLUG
>                                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St.
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>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
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>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                                        
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>>
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>                 <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>>
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>
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                                     TCLUG Mailing List -
>                 Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
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>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>                                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>                 <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>>
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>                 _______________________________________________
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 18:33:10 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:33:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <ce406fde-1a67-7e97-64ce-79448d20cdd9@kateley.com>
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Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFMAh3Ocbx3bCDduheCMvKCnKBJQ==aiq=az=Ue4hyO_w@mail.gmail.com>

I let my kids play mindcraft but that is it. i do have grand theft auto on
an old windows partition that NEVER gets used, but someday we may loosen up
on them. i personally would like to play sometimes myself, but it seems
like it is hard to communicate with someone when they are playing a game,
as opposed to surfing, watching tv, or reading a book; as when you are
playing a game it is hard to even look up for a minute to acknowledge the
person who is speaking. i would like to think that my kids and myself will
someday be able to handle video games, just not yet.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com> wrote:

> One of my friends is an investor in oculus rift. You can buy the dev kit
> for like $300 if i remember right..
>
> On 8/23/16 4:52 PM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>
> oculus rift reminds me of an article i read in mid 2000's about augmented
> reality and how they were working on overlays for the various things you
> would want to know about something like a building.
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> oh, and thank you for your kind words about my parenting and my in site.
>> that is uplifting.  and true, ayyyyyyy
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>    i am a stay at home father. my wife went to Le Cordon Bleu for
>>> college. when I had a medical break in my career, she took over and i never
>>> looked back.
>>>    we do have a garden and "we grow our own money" as i have heard said
>>> in some random TED Talk. also interested in this TED Talk about microbes:
>>> https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_age_t
>>> echnology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en but have yet to
>>> indulge myself.
>>>    i would like to do something positive for people, to make a
>>> difference with my time, not only for me but for others. I used to be a
>>> part of Rotary International for years. I like to give. I feel as though
>>> with the time on my hands i can do something for me while showing my kids
>>> what can be accomplished. should i fall short of this goal, i will have
>>> raised my 4 children to be aware that they can do things that make life
>>> fair for all people.
>>>    and to further wander off topic my long term personal goal is to get
>>> land and a wind generator made from scratch, then have it make me money
>>> with our average 12 mph wind speed. then build more. but that is for me to
>>> make money, not to feel good about myself.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Besides being a good mother, you value learning, community, and even
>>>> Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!
>>>>
>>>> Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may I suggest
>>>> other opportunity in your young family's future. Having mentioned the new
>>>> atmospheric CO2 levels can grow plants faster, we also can improve soil
>>>> quality with new carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking at black
>>>> dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen related to CO2
>>>> emissions. It is called carbon sequestration. In our experience, we get
>>>> phenomenal improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing a little
>>>> child loves better than eating a homegrown strawberry. I hope you can enjoy
>>>> such creative gifts with your family.
>>>>
>>>> Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts, lifestyle, and a
>>>> hopeful future sure beats competing for top barking dog status. As SuSE
>>>> Linux says after installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.
>>>>
>>>> Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the ideas
>>>>> in these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has mentioned
>>>>> the wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive brain is
>>>>> just loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider! we, 4 kids
>>>>> under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small arsenal of
>>>>> parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of: consider what
>>>>> this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but what makes it
>>>>> do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that? could it do
>>>>> something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure and have it
>>>>> do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools and scrap
>>>>> wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other materials).
>>>>> that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the idea from a TED
>>>>> Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc... she can count to
>>>>> 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux provides
>>>>> unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what they
>>>>> "should" see.
>>>>> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
>>>>> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
>>>>> whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
>>>>> i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
>>>>> from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
>>>>> them interested to learn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with
>>>>> varying interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
>>>>> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com
>>>>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to
>>>>>     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take
>>>>>     issue with your assertion.
>>>>>
>>>>>     We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years.
>>>>>     And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy,
>>>>>     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or
>>>>>     social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad
>>>>>     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed
>>>>>     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same
>>>>>     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming
>>>>>         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach
>>>>>         programming logic without language.. There used to be
>>>>>         something similar back in the day called bluejay which did
>>>>>         something very similar but got people more ready for objects
>>>>>         and was intended for college.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are
>>>>>         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some
>>>>>         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to everything.
>>>>>         Arduino's are cool and already being used in most of the robot
>>>>>         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if they
>>>>>         understand they have to speak to the device in it's language
>>>>>         and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak
>>>>>         native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I
>>>>>         know how they work.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Sorry for pontification.
>>>>>
>>>>>         lk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>             Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s ->
>>>>>             early 80s my first effort was to push those new
>>>>>             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We had a meeting in
>>>>>             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>>>>             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that
>>>>>             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old
>>>>>             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the
>>>>>             "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>>>>             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?"
>>>>>             So the high point of my career came and went, the internet
>>>>>             happened, everything is microcontroller controlled,
>>>>>             lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to
>>>>>             automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke,
>>>>>             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the world's
>>>>>             biggest manufacturing economy.
>>>>>
>>>>>             I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of
>>>>>             programs. IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm
>>>>>             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data Bank, advanced
>>>>>             programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to draw
>>>>>             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how
>>>>>             they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I
>>>>>             use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the
>>>>>             "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the
>>>>>             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>             So when a couple of school computer administrators get
>>>>>             praise for just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how
>>>>>             they will ever catch up.
>>>>>
>>>>>             r hayman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Relevancy.
>>>>>                 To remain relevant in many job fields, students must
>>>>>                 learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare
>>>>>                 our students and our future work force to be relevant
>>>>>                 when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>>>>                 business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
>>>>>                 in many ways is with open source software.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Running open source or COTS software is seldom a
>>>>>                 business differentiator today, it may only be a
>>>>>                 (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>>>>>                 support costs.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate
>>>>>                 and environment research, simulations of all types,
>>>>>                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly
>>>>>                 runs on Linux and open source.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 For example, visit
>>>>>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>>>>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter
>>>>>                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies):
>>>>>                 Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites
>>>>>                 in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or
>>>>>                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something
>>>>>                 other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                     When my kids were in High School I tried working
>>>>>                     with our school
>>>>>                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get
>>>>>                     programming taught,
>>>>>                     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at
>>>>>                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>>>>>                     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school
>>>>>                     because of an ice storm
>>>>>                     I called and they said I could install the QBasic
>>>>>                     from Windows, along
>>>>>                     with program examples galore. So I left my kids
>>>>>                     home and drove to town
>>>>>                     and installed it all. I later went to school board
>>>>>                     meetings and they
>>>>>                     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political"
>>>>>                     is an understatement.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know
>>>>>                     how kids can make it
>>>>>                     in the future without knowing electronics and
>>>>>                     programming. It seems they
>>>>>                     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard
>>>>>                     them intellectually.
>>>>>                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                         I started working with my school district
>>>>>                         about 10 years ago. The problems I find there
>>>>>                         are always political and never about
>>>>>                         technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>>>>                         champion in the system that speaks the
>>>>>                         administrations language. I found there were a
>>>>>                         ton of people who wanted to know, just not at
>>>>>                         the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>>>>                         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>>>>                         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the districts
>>>>>                         first involvement with opensource or
>>>>>                         community. The project has been very very
>>>>>                         successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>>>>                         But then they hired a new superintendent that
>>>>>                         thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>>>>                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                             I have already given one presentation at
>>>>>                             the Blair Taylor School with the principal
>>>>>                             and an IT guy and have been asked to give
>>>>>                             a follow up talk to them and the head of
>>>>>                             the IT department. They had macbook air
>>>>>                             for the older kids and ipads for the
>>>>>                             younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>>                             end of the school day. This time they
>>>>>                             decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>>>>>                             the best.. rated or testing, can't think
>>>>>                             of an appropriate word, but with the
>>>>>                             quality of the teachers out here i am
>>>>>                             pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>>>>>                             and a box of sand and they would still be
>>>>>                             well prepared for life on their
>>>>>                             own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>>>>>                             be much better off if they can learn
>>>>>                             without restrictions from open source
>>>>>                             hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>>>>>                             offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>>>>                             choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>>>>>                             some license agreement or for reading and
>>>>>                             modifying code should that be an interest.
>>>>>                             I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>>                             compelling argument in the last meeting.
>>>>>                             This time I want to have as many resources
>>>>>                             available to provide for them, including
>>>>>                             reasons why schools frequently choose to
>>>>>                             not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
>>>>>                             quite the presentation last time and the
>>>>>                             IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>>>>                             was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>>>>>                             provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>>>>>                             tablets so how they didn't find anything
>>>>>                             about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>>>>                             beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on
>>>>>                             a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more
>>>>>                             and use persistence to load up some
>>>>>                             information to give to the IT people who
>>>>>                             are possibly way under informed, to give
>>>>>                             them plenty of time on their own to absorb
>>>>>                             what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>>                             community! They asked many questions about
>>>>>                             community. Yes we work together and keep
>>>>>                             our favorite distributions alive often
>>>>>                             without corporate support!
>>>>>                             ______________________________
>>>>> _________________
>>>>>                             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>>>                             Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>                             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>                             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG
>>>>>                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>                         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>                         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>                         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>>> Minnesota
>>>>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.or
>>>>> g>
>>>>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Aug 23 18:52:11 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:52:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
Message-ID: <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>


> On Aug 22, 2016, at 11:20 PM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Ryan:  Well, it's not too soon to start designing a statewide community emergency broadband mesh network.  Rochester is considering the feasibility of such a network as we sit here.  :)
> 

Interesting? as I look out my window on Methodist Hospital, Gonda and Charter House all I see is grey skies, no meshes at all :)

I do a lot of work at Olmsted and Mother Mayo (relo?d in April for a year). 

> Tom
> 
> P.S.  I could be wrong about that.  I'm guessing these networks can be sustainable based on a business model that pairs up advertisers with content.
> 
You don?t need advertisers to get a MESH system going. But you do need about $500-$1000 per site for quality gear that will survive Minnesota weather.

USI?s Wireless is technically a MESH system. It?s not the hardware Iw ould have used when they started but it is viable now after they upgraded the technology.
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 18:58:42 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:58:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFMAh3Ocbx3bCDduheCMvKCnKBJQ==aiq=az=Ue4hyO_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com> <57BB7224.5020009@pinenet.com>
 <6ecca535-1068-8fd0-fa46-2e7b8d8f4635@kateley.com>
 <57BC11BB.2040704@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOG-fd8yv3Kduhpxb-xBFs8iOqQjs-gb3sTef9J6=uk5=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BC9BC5.7080806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOGPp-3YuycZAc0ng=+UgqfYOtkMMGdDUcu3-h2CmCJ47w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFhY-BoHn=qMyVdDVF_D5UWyEqzCz3y7oKCpEGrHoUnRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEdAq5fsE3ENG9WKYwBVZyPY7+FV58s6i_htdd78uVY3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ce406fde-1a67-7e97-64ce-79448d20cdd9@kateley.com>
 <CA+G9TOFMAh3Ocbx3bCDduheCMvKCnKBJQ==aiq=az=Ue4hyO_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOF0u=FKz8WBHmtc3qHHHdmh2sQ_bpKiRVuVdhEyNYm0KA@mail.gmail.com>

I like this TED Talk about augmented reality, notably he mentions Microsoft
Windows interface and laughs. They show neuroscience as the motivating
factor behind the interface; which is interesting to me as my i have had a
head injury that had left me blind for a day. took part of my memory too.
so for me to sit and learn as much as possible is truly a privilege and an
opportunity that i don't take lightly not to mention my ability to retain
is greatly improved the more i study.

https://www.ted.com/talks/meron_gribetz_a_glimpse_of_the_future_through_an_augmented_reality_headset?language=en

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:33 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I let my kids play mindcraft but that is it. i do have grand theft auto on
> an old windows partition that NEVER gets used, but someday we may loosen up
> on them. i personally would like to play sometimes myself, but it seems
> like it is hard to communicate with someone when they are playing a game,
> as opposed to surfing, watching tv, or reading a book; as when you are
> playing a game it is hard to even look up for a minute to acknowledge the
> person who is speaking. i would like to think that my kids and myself will
> someday be able to handle video games, just not yet.
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Linda Kateley <lkateley at kateley.com>
> wrote:
>
>> One of my friends is an investor in oculus rift. You can buy the dev kit
>> for like $300 if i remember right..
>>
>> On 8/23/16 4:52 PM, Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>
>> oculus rift reminds me of an article i read in mid 2000's about augmented
>> reality and how they were working on overlays for the various things you
>> would want to know about something like a building.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> oh, and thank you for your kind words about my parenting and my in site.
>>> that is uplifting.  and true, ayyyyyyy
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>    i am a stay at home father. my wife went to Le Cordon Bleu for
>>>> college. when I had a medical break in my career, she took over and i never
>>>> looked back.
>>>>    we do have a garden and "we grow our own money" as i have heard said
>>>> in some random TED Talk. also interested in this TED Talk about microbes:
>>>> https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_dyson_a_forgotten_space_age_t
>>>> echnology_could_change_how_we_grow_food?language=en but have yet to
>>>> indulge myself.
>>>>    i would like to do something positive for people, to make a
>>>> difference with my time, not only for me but for others. I used to be a
>>>> part of Rotary International for years. I like to give. I feel as though
>>>> with the time on my hands i can do something for me while showing my kids
>>>> what can be accomplished. should i fall short of this goal, i will have
>>>> raised my 4 children to be aware that they can do things that make life
>>>> fair for all people.
>>>>    and to further wander off topic my long term personal goal is to get
>>>> land and a wind generator made from scratch, then have it make me money
>>>> with our average 12 mph wind speed. then build more. but that is for me to
>>>> make money, not to feel good about myself.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Besides being a good mother, you value learning, community, and even
>>>>> Linux. Wow, that's a plate full!
>>>>>
>>>>> Staying off Linux topic here to avoid expert rebukes, may I suggest
>>>>> other opportunity in your young family's future. Having mentioned the new
>>>>> atmospheric CO2 levels can grow plants faster, we also can improve soil
>>>>> quality with new carbon. Even the oil and coal industry is looking at black
>>>>> dirt as the only remedy for climate change issues seen related to CO2
>>>>> emissions. It is called carbon sequestration. In our experience, we get
>>>>> phenomenal improvement in gardens with black dirt added. Nothing a little
>>>>> child loves better than eating a homegrown strawberry. I hope you can enjoy
>>>>> such creative gifts with your family.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seeing creative opportunity in Linux, community, arts, lifestyle, and
>>>>> a hopeful future sure beats competing for top barking dog status. As SuSE
>>>>> Linux says after installation, "Have a lot of fun." Life is too damn short.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i have spent many hours reading as much as i can handle from the
>>>>>> ideas in these responses. i am barely beyond the last point that i has
>>>>>> mentioned the wireless mesh stuff. i am in research heaven. my overactive
>>>>>> brain is just loving all the angles that you are offering me to consider!
>>>>>> we, 4 kids under 8 and me, have a raspberry pi 2 and arduino uno. a small
>>>>>> arsenal of parts i am accumulating. they get direction in the form of:
>>>>>> consider what this really is, wood, metal, and plastic make up parts, but
>>>>>> what makes it do what it is supposed to do and why does it only do that?
>>>>>> could it do something else. can you put it inside of a different enclosure
>>>>>> and have it do the same thing, something different? I give them power tools
>>>>>> and scrap wood (someday when i have more tools i will offer them other
>>>>>> materials). that gets their brains moving and ideas come forth (got the
>>>>>> idea from a TED Talk). my 2 year old counts the sockets and nails etc...
>>>>>> she can count to 26. was 2 in jan. providing opportunities (much like Linux
>>>>>> provides unlimited options) and directions for them to look, never what
>>>>>> they "should" see.
>>>>>> I have so much to tell you all, but i need to spend more time reading
>>>>>> through this 1 email at a time doing research all the way. I am so excited.
>>>>>> whether the school provides the kind of things i would like to see or not,
>>>>>> i am learning so much and my children will be benefiting from this speech
>>>>>> from the way i am able to understand and get through to them; have to get
>>>>>> them interested to learn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Community! so many different people from so many backgrounds with
>>>>>> varying interests come together with a common interest; and it isn't money!
>>>>>> Thank you all!  (but keep it coming!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com
>>>>>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Having separately suggested a specific Linux software use to
>>>>>>     better understand cellulose biofuels, for the sake of kids I take
>>>>>>     issue with your assertion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     We do know the global population has doubled in the last 50 years.
>>>>>>     And we do know kids will face shortages of food, water, energy,
>>>>>>     and housing in the next 50 years. Call it logic or arithmetic or
>>>>>>     social planning. We also know there are a lot of guns and bad
>>>>>>     attitudes that seem to be getting worse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Luckily, my kids are grown, college grads, some actually employed
>>>>>>     in Silicon Valley. Scientists from India are eager. Same ol, same
>>>>>>     ol in Minnesota. Always a smart way to do nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         So that's the reason I pointed them to that mit programming
>>>>>>         program ... Kids need to understand logic, it is way to teach
>>>>>>         programming logic without language.. There used to be
>>>>>>         something similar back in the day called bluejay which did
>>>>>>         something very similar but got people more ready for objects
>>>>>>         and was intended for college.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Whatever we think it is going to be like for them(my kids are
>>>>>>         15), we are going to be wrong. Something else will come. Some
>>>>>>         new innovation. Logic to me is the key to everything.
>>>>>>         Arduino's are cool and already being used in most of the robot
>>>>>>         clubs.. Languages will change shift and move.. but if they
>>>>>>         understand they have to speak to the device in it's language
>>>>>>         and build program's, I think they will be alright. I speak
>>>>>>         native solaris, but can move between os's like shoes cause I
>>>>>>         know how they work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Sorry for pontification.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         lk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         On 8/22/16 4:44 PM, Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Having done Biophysics grad school in the late 1970s ->
>>>>>>             early 80s my first effort was to push those new
>>>>>>             microcomputers and even fiber optics. We had a meeting in
>>>>>>             Lowertown, St. Paul and by then I had an Epson QX10 and
>>>>>>             somehow managed to draw a 3D peptide structure that
>>>>>>             calculated liquid crystal electro-optic properties. Old
>>>>>>             Biophysics Prof. Otto Schmitt, whom I introduced as the
>>>>>>             "father of digital electronics" by throwing out some new
>>>>>>             Radio Shack Schmitt trigger ICs, remarked, "Who did this?"
>>>>>>             So the high point of my career came and went, the internet
>>>>>>             happened, everything is microcontroller controlled,
>>>>>>             lightweight displays are the norm, friends that tried to
>>>>>>             automate factories with pneumatic controls are broke,
>>>>>>             Lowertown is beautiful, Communist China is the world's
>>>>>>             biggest manufacturing economy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             I like SuSE Linux because they always included hundreds of
>>>>>>             programs. IBM data explorer is worth learning before I'm
>>>>>>             90. I learned there is now a Protein Data Bank, advanced
>>>>>>             programs to use it, and a nice XScreensaver to draw
>>>>>>             molecules. I like the Arduino toys, and am surprised how
>>>>>>             they exploit the Unix terminal connection. Most stuff I
>>>>>>             use is not in standard distros, like FreePascal, but the
>>>>>>             "forms library," oddly enough is in "Raspbian," the
>>>>>>             Raspberry Pie distro. Etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             So when a couple of school computer administrators get
>>>>>>             praise for just wanting to hear about Linux, I wonder how
>>>>>>             they will ever catch up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             r hayman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Relevancy.
>>>>>>                 To remain relevant in many job fields, students must
>>>>>>                 learn about open source software and Linux. To prepare
>>>>>>                 our students and our future work force to be relevant
>>>>>>                 when they enter the work force, academia and the
>>>>>>                 business world need to be aligned and that alignment,
>>>>>>                 in many ways is with open source software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Running open source or COTS software is seldom a
>>>>>>                 business differentiator today, it may only be a
>>>>>>                 (negative) differentiator based on licensing and
>>>>>>                 support costs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 Pharmaceutical research, weather forecasting, climate
>>>>>>                 and environment research, simulations of all types,
>>>>>>                 manufacturing, design, you name it, it predominantly
>>>>>>                 runs on Linux and open source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 For example, visit
>>>>>>                 https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
>>>>>>                 <https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/> and filter
>>>>>>                 on TOP500 Release: June 2016; then Category(ies):
>>>>>>                 Operating System, Application Area, and Segments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 You will find that of the top 500 supercomputer sites
>>>>>>                 in the world, not a single one runs either Windows or
>>>>>>                 Mac OS X. Only 16 - just a hair over 3%, run something
>>>>>>                 other than some obvious distribution of Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 On Mon, 2016-08-22 at 15:22 -0500, Rick Engebretson
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     When my kids were in High School I tried working
>>>>>>                     with our school
>>>>>>                     district (Mora, MN.) in about 1998 just to get
>>>>>>                     programming taught,
>>>>>>                     somewhere. The school used all Macs but had at
>>>>>>                     least one MSWindows 95 in
>>>>>>                     some kind of lab. On a day they canceled school
>>>>>>                     because of an ice storm
>>>>>>                     I called and they said I could install the QBasic
>>>>>>                     from Windows, along
>>>>>>                     with program examples galore. So I left my kids
>>>>>>                     home and drove to town
>>>>>>                     and installed it all. I later went to school board
>>>>>>                     meetings and they
>>>>>>                     fought me until my kids all graduated. "Political"
>>>>>>                     is an understatement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     I use Linux because I can program it. I don't know
>>>>>>                     how kids can make it
>>>>>>                     in the future without knowing electronics and
>>>>>>                     programming. It seems they
>>>>>>                     are trying to cripple kids with sports, and retard
>>>>>>                     them intellectually.
>>>>>>                     It sure wasn't that way in the 1960s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     Linda Kateley wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         I started working with my school district
>>>>>>                         about 10 years ago. The problems I find there
>>>>>>                         are always political and never about
>>>>>>                         technology. What worked for me is to find one
>>>>>>                         champion in the system that speaks the
>>>>>>                         administrations language. I found there were a
>>>>>>                         ton of people who wanted to know, just not at
>>>>>>                         the top. I introduced scratch to the
>>>>>>                         elementary STEM school about 5 years ago,
>>>>>>                         https://scratch.mit.edu/. It was the
>>>>>> districts
>>>>>>                         first involvement with opensource or
>>>>>>                         community. The project has been very very
>>>>>>                         successful and it opened the doors to more.
>>>>>>                         But then they hired a new superintendent that
>>>>>>                         thought it was stupid so..that happened ;(
>>>>>>                         linda On 8/21/16 10:43 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                             I have already given one presentation at
>>>>>>                             the Blair Taylor School with the principal
>>>>>>                             and an IT guy and have been asked to give
>>>>>>                             a follow up talk to them and the head of
>>>>>>                             the IT department. They had macbook air
>>>>>>                             for the older kids and ipads for the
>>>>>>                             younger ones. They bring these home at the
>>>>>>                             end of the school day. This time they
>>>>>>                             decided to go with cromebooks. It one of
>>>>>>                             the best.. rated or testing, can't think
>>>>>>                             of an appropriate word, but with the
>>>>>>                             quality of the teachers out here i am
>>>>>>                             pretty sure they could give my kids sticks
>>>>>>                             and a box of sand and they would still be
>>>>>>                             well prepared for life on their
>>>>>>                             own/college. I am 100% positive they will
>>>>>>                             be much better off if they can learn
>>>>>>                             without restrictions from open source
>>>>>>                             hardware, software, classes (like MIT
>>>>>>                             offers open courseware) and the ability to
>>>>>>                             choose, to not be scolded for breaking
>>>>>>                             some license agreement or for reading and
>>>>>>                             modifying code should that be an interest.
>>>>>>                             I want them to have Linux. I have gave a
>>>>>>                             compelling argument in the last meeting.
>>>>>>                             This time I want to have as many resources
>>>>>>                             available to provide for them, including
>>>>>>                             reasons why schools frequently choose to
>>>>>>                             not use Linux. Anything will help. I had
>>>>>>                             quite the presentation last time and the
>>>>>>                             IT guy didn't know what Unix or BSD 4.4
>>>>>>                             was; or Linux, BSD, Solaris. Seems Ubuntu
>>>>>>                             provides computers reloaded with Linux and
>>>>>>                             tablets so how they didn't find anything
>>>>>>                             about open source or Linux/BSD/ETC is
>>>>>>                             beyond me. I gave them a live Ubuntu OS on
>>>>>>                             a thumb drive. I wanted to make some more
>>>>>>                             and use persistence to load up some
>>>>>>                             information to give to the IT people who
>>>>>>                             are possibly way under informed, to give
>>>>>>                             them plenty of time on their own to absorb
>>>>>>                             what open source has to offer; mostly
>>>>>>                             community! They asked many questions about
>>>>>>                             community. Yes we work together and keep
>>>>>>                             our favorite distributions alive often
>>>>>>                             without corporate support!
>>>>>>                             ______________________________
>>>>>> _________________
>>>>>>                             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>>>>                             Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>                             <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>>                             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>                             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                         _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG
>>>>>>                         Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>                         tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>                         <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>>                         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>                         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>>>>>> Minnesota
>>>>>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>>
>>>>>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                 TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>                 tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>                 http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma
>>>>>> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/m
>>>>>> ailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>>>>>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 19:03:23 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:03:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>

justin should be chiming in soon with any luck. i heard usi. give us some
of your knowledge justin...

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

>
> On Aug 22, 2016, at 11:20 PM, Tom <tompoe at meltel.net> wrote:
>
> Hi, Ryan:  Well, it's not too soon to start designing a statewide
> community emergency broadband mesh network.  Rochester is considering the
> feasibility of such a network as we sit here.  :)
>
>
> Interesting? as I look out my window on Methodist Hospital, Gonda and
> Charter House all I see is grey skies, no meshes at all :)
>
> I do a lot of work at Olmsted and Mother Mayo (relo?d in April for a
> year).
>
> Tom
>
> P.S.  I could be wrong about that.  I'm guessing these networks can be
> sustainable based on a business model that pairs up advertisers with
> content.
>
> You don?t need advertisers to get a MESH system going. But you do need
> about $500-$1000 per site for quality gear that will survive Minnesota
> weather.
>
> USI?s Wireless is technically a MESH system. It?s not the hardware Iw ould
> have used when they started but it is viable now after they upgraded the
> technology.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 23 22:59:17 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:59:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>

Regarding augmented reality, I have been working on it for a while now. There
is a LOT to it, not just hardware, btu good hardware is key.

I used the Microsoft product (name escapes me) and will be working with the
Oculus Rift DK2 on Saturday. My searches for Linux software and drivers that
are necessary in order to use the ready-made API show that there is little
out there at the moment. If anyone has any info that I should be looking at,
please share.


From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 23 23:40:49 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 23:40:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtzR10jJvB61mzQWajaNDGkPVk2=GcRN0-YaZfHF=yrUw@mail.gmail.com>

I've installed Linux Mint on an Acer Travelmate laptop and am
having trouble getting the wireless stuff working.

iwconfig says the access point is not associated.

lspci says this:

01:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev bb)
    Subsystem: Intel Corporation Dual Band Wireless-N 7260

dmesg says link is not ready.  It seem like I've had a similar
problem at least once before and that I might have been able
to get it fixed one time.  But I am not sure what to do next.

And, I'm having trouble getting Ben Shapiro podcasts to play
on this machine.   (I'm using an ethernet connection while the
wireless is down,)

I'm able for example, to watch bsdnow.tv podcasts without a
problem.  But I'm not getting any sound when I try to listen to
to this.

http://www.dailywire.com/podcasts/8606/ben-shapiro-show-ep-170-hillary-clinton-opens-ben-shapiro

I'v tried two ways to get it to work.
1. Clicking on the links..
2. Downloading an mp3 file.

When I downloaded the mp3, it said it needed to install
gstreamer.  So I let it do that, but that didn't seem to help.
I've tried both of the above things several times,  but I haven't
tried rebooting.

Thank you in advance.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Aug 24 09:52:51 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:52:51 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtzR10jJvB61mzQWajaNDGkPVk2=GcRN0-YaZfHF=yrUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtzR10jJvB61mzQWajaNDGkPVk2=GcRN0-YaZfHF=yrUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160824145251.GA27294@nobelware.com>

> I've installed Linux Mint on an Acer Travelmate laptop and am
> having trouble getting the wireless stuff working.
> 
> iwconfig says the access point is not associated.
> 
> lspci says this:
> 
> 01:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev bb)
>     Subsystem: Intel Corporation Dual Band Wireless-N 7260
> 
> dmesg says link is not ready.  It seem like I've had a similar
> problem at least once before and that I might have been able
> to get it fixed one time.  But I am not sure what to do next.


There is most likely a module for hte wireless ethernet device 9card or
itnernal) that has to be loaded. Some "bleeding edge" drivers are not yet
in the kernel, depending on the age of the hardware and how popular it was
in terms of volume sold. What we used to do is use "ndiswarpper" which is
exactly that. an NDIS wrapper, to use drivers that come straight from
Windows. You typically build the ndiswrapper with the drivers for the device
you have. Look it up.

Then, the kernel will load the module properly (the ndiswrapper), and the
module will essentially use the configuration of your wrapper to direct
kernel functions to the object code that is found in the .dll. (Confused
yet?)

Read about it, try it and report back. That is how I got my wireless device
on my Compaq laptop from 2005 to work.


> And, I'm having trouble getting Ben Shapiro podcasts to play
> on this machine.   (I'm using an ethernet connection while the
> wireless is down,)
> 
> I'm able for example, to watch bsdnow.tv podcasts without a
> problem.  But I'm not getting any sound when I try to listen to
> to this.
> 
> http://www.dailywire.com/podcasts/8606/ben-shapiro-show-ep-170-hillary-clinton-opens-ben-shapiro
> 
> I'v tried two ways to get it to work.
> 1. Clicking on the links..
> 2. Downloading an mp3 file.
> 
> When I downloaded the mp3, it said it needed to install
> gstreamer.  So I let it do that, but that didn't seem to help.
> I've tried both of the above things several times,  but I haven't
> tried rebooting.
>

As an FYI, "MPlayer" is the _best_ player for both archived (on your drive)
and streaming media. You want that, and you can easily build it from source.
It has "skins" and GUIs that go with it for people who do not like the CLI.

But your core problem is in ALSA, the Advanced Linux Sounds System,
configuration. In a terminal hit "alsamixer' and see the graphical sliders.
Move left right with the cursor keys and keep hitting "M" to mute and unmute
channels. The issue, I think, is that one way of palying the stream uses a
PCM ALSA device and another something else. The one that plays is not muted
and the other one is. It can also be the "jack sense" that needs to be muted.
That is just the sensor that tries to figure out if you have plugged in the
jack for headphones or not.

Looks like you need to do some reading on that as well. Report back.


And of course, I could be dead-wrong about all of this.

From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Wed Aug 24 10:43:05 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:43:05 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
In-Reply-To: <20160824145251.GA27294@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjtzR10jJvB61mzQWajaNDGkPVk2=GcRN0-YaZfHF=yrUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824145251.GA27294@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFc5v8JA490K7M4M92=ROecMCXZnf--mC518Mu38oUJ6A@mail.gmail.com>

at least you can still watch allen and kris... great show.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> > I've installed Linux Mint on an Acer Travelmate laptop and am
> > having trouble getting the wireless stuff working.
> >
> > iwconfig says the access point is not associated.
> >
> > lspci says this:
> >
> > 01:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev bb)
> >     Subsystem: Intel Corporation Dual Band Wireless-N 7260
> >
> > dmesg says link is not ready.  It seem like I've had a similar
> > problem at least once before and that I might have been able
> > to get it fixed one time.  But I am not sure what to do next.
>
>
> There is most likely a module for hte wireless ethernet device 9card or
> itnernal) that has to be loaded. Some "bleeding edge" drivers are not yet
> in the kernel, depending on the age of the hardware and how popular it was
> in terms of volume sold. What we used to do is use "ndiswarpper" which is
> exactly that. an NDIS wrapper, to use drivers that come straight from
> Windows. You typically build the ndiswrapper with the drivers for the
> device
> you have. Look it up.
>
> Then, the kernel will load the module properly (the ndiswrapper), and the
> module will essentially use the configuration of your wrapper to direct
> kernel functions to the object code that is found in the .dll. (Confused
> yet?)
>
> Read about it, try it and report back. That is how I got my wireless device
> on my Compaq laptop from 2005 to work.
>
>
> > And, I'm having trouble getting Ben Shapiro podcasts to play
> > on this machine.   (I'm using an ethernet connection while the
> > wireless is down,)
> >
> > I'm able for example, to watch bsdnow.tv podcasts without a
> > problem.  But I'm not getting any sound when I try to listen to
> > to this.
> >
> > http://www.dailywire.com/podcasts/8606/ben-shapiro-
> show-ep-170-hillary-clinton-opens-ben-shapiro
> >
> > I'v tried two ways to get it to work.
> > 1. Clicking on the links..
> > 2. Downloading an mp3 file.
> >
> > When I downloaded the mp3, it said it needed to install
> > gstreamer.  So I let it do that, but that didn't seem to help.
> > I've tried both of the above things several times,  but I haven't
> > tried rebooting.
> >
>
> As an FYI, "MPlayer" is the _best_ player for both archived (on your drive)
> and streaming media. You want that, and you can easily build it from
> source.
> It has "skins" and GUIs that go with it for people who do not like the CLI.
>
> But your core problem is in ALSA, the Advanced Linux Sounds System,
> configuration. In a terminal hit "alsamixer' and see the graphical sliders.
> Move left right with the cursor keys and keep hitting "M" to mute and
> unmute
> channels. The issue, I think, is that one way of palying the stream uses a
> PCM ALSA device and another something else. The one that plays is not muted
> and the other one is. It can also be the "jack sense" that needs to be
> muted.
> That is just the sensor that tries to figure out if you have plugged in the
> jack for headphones or not.
>
> Looks like you need to do some reading on that as well. Report back.
>
>
> And of course, I could be dead-wrong about all of this.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 06:10:14 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 06:10:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>

we have been talking about Netflix with Linda and i saw this morning on the
news there is a scam email gong around about a refund. something about
itunes too, but i wanted to mention it since it was so recent we were
talking about it.
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 06:46:12 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 06:46:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>

i have my opening statement done. it may be a bit overconfident/smug or
not. i have to be careful with my head injuries to not just say the first
thing that comes to into my head. i would like to put  up a website using
something like hostinger to document the process to assist others who may
have the same opportunity that i have been provided with.

   Let me start by saying that in a way, I am an educator. I started a
nonprofit 501c3 to give native cultures in the western hemisphere access to
education, technology, and commerce. We started a diabetes awareness
program for which we had booths set up at places such as The Science Museum
of Minnesota. There is also a syndicated radio show named Indigenous in
Music that was formed from this project that was set up and designed by me.
(Currently being made weekly using the same setup I made, but done by a 15
year old Native American boy with remarkable quality.)

At the chamber of commerce, IICOC (Indigenous Internet Chamber of
Commerce), I received donated computers, mostly used, and would DBAN the
hard drives to completely remove the previous contents and install a
variety of different operating systems on them such as Microsoft Windows,
Mac, FreeBSD, but mostly Linux. Most of our volunteers were unfamiliar with
computers.

Eventually the people who had been accessing the Windows machines would go
onto a Linux machine. I would frequently hear, where is this specific
program? When my learning Linux volunteers would switch to Windows they
would ask, where is this specific option; as most of them had moved from
computer to computer on the different distributions I had choose to install
of Linux as our main operating systems they had used different programs
already to do the same thing. For example Open Office and ABI Word, Star
Office, Libre Office, etc. all do the same thing INCLUDING that which
Microsoft Word/Office have to offer.

It seems as though closed source systems like Apple and Windows provide, as
an example, frequently will not offer the options that Open Source software
offers. Part of the reason for this is financial. Microsoft Corporation
pays many people in order to bring you Microsoft Windows and its related
products and adhere to budgets put in place; limiting the options that many
people may want/need. If the source code is open source it provides a means
for these people to add the options. Then if the choose to offer them to
the community they can merge it upstream in the next software release;
which happens many times faster than Microsoft offers (sometimes daily
instead of every few years as in Microsoft Office), while providing the
flexibility to use the same software on almost every platform imaginable
including Microsoft Windows. Bill Gates would have a hard time with all of
his money we gave him to do the same thing that an open source community
can do in a very short amount of time. If this doesn?t make sense to you or
you feel I am wrong, I encourage you to spend some time and look around.
You need to understand that most of what you see is running Linux. Your
smart TV?s, your cable box, your android phone, wireless access points,
printers, modern ATM machines, most web services, drones, mail sorting
machines, most electronic medical equipment, ??????? Keep looking around
and investigate the influence or complete use of open source in it. It is
everywhere, and as educators you really need to understand that in real
life people will be using Linux and other open source software in their
daily lives; which translates to jobs.

>From organizational structure, to the people who freely give, providing us
with the many different communities, open source is what made most
everything we see today. Open source is a very welcoming educational, and
transparent way for everyone who wants to become involved in every single
aspect of designing, building, and/or using software and hardware that is
available; or that they have dreamed up, providing us with innovation and
change in ways that a small group of executives with access to code and
schematics may never have.

Open source has been around since the very beginning of computing whether
it was through collaboration of different entities or under the somewhat
specific name of open source, and will continue to provide people with the
opportunity to use this information to learn about how the world works
around them; and if you so desire to build a closed source business with
it, as the licensing provides people with this and many many opportunities
to use it however they can imagine. Microsoft and Apple both provide the
open source community with philanthropy and code; on occasion. Many
commercial enterprises offer support including financial to the open source
communities on an ongoing basis; frequently because their business was
built using open source hardware and software. There are companies who
offer support to the end users of said communities as well as a very large
number of people available at any time to answer questions freely and with
passion. There is a symbiotic relationship between the 2 (open and closed
source) and to ignore the open source community and Linux is an act of
ignorance at this point in my speech. To avoid research and use of these
technologies in an education environment, other than universities who
already incorporate and innovate these technologies, would be a choice I
hope no one listening to this or reading this after my speech will make.

It should be noted that our government is the primary funder and founder of
these open source projects and brought us modern day computing as we know
it. This is not a business exclusive relationship, but one that crosses
international, cultural, and civil borders and is comprised of educational,
business, government, and civilian peoples from every walk of life with
varying interests and goals united together.


none of this needs to be in here, it is only my first draft. i can scrap it
and start over as i often do.

i am open to all criticisms as this is important to the other kids in the
school out here (potentially other schools); my kids will have plenty of
skills regardless of any end results.

*This is so fun!*

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Regarding augmented reality, I have been working on it for a while now.
> There
> is a LOT to it, not just hardware, btu good hardware is key.
>
> I used the Microsoft product (name escapes me) and will be working with the
> Oculus Rift DK2 on Saturday. My searches for Linux software and drivers
> that
> are necessary in order to use the ready-made API show that there is little
> out there at the moment. If anyone has any info that I should be looking
> at,
> please share.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 06:51:14 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 06:51:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGG55qrOf5sFVmKAuh4kG-GWL1PtVhea=NmFeWKAi2Tww@mail.gmail.com>

please be brutally honest!

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> i have my opening statement done. it may be a bit overconfident/smug or
> not. i have to be careful with my head injuries to not just say the first
> thing that comes to into my head. i would like to put  up a website using
> something like hostinger to document the process to assist others who may
> have the same opportunity that i have been provided with.
>
>    Let me start by saying that in a way, I am an educator. I started a
> nonprofit 501c3 to give native cultures in the western hemisphere access to
> education, technology, and commerce. We started a diabetes awareness
> program for which we had booths set up at places such as The Science Museum
> of Minnesota. There is also a syndicated radio show named Indigenous in
> Music that was formed from this project that was set up and designed by me.
> (Currently being made weekly using the same setup I made, but done by a 15
> year old Native American boy with remarkable quality.)
>
> At the chamber of commerce, IICOC (Indigenous Internet Chamber of
> Commerce), I received donated computers, mostly used, and would DBAN the
> hard drives to completely remove the previous contents and install a
> variety of different operating systems on them such as Microsoft Windows,
> Mac, FreeBSD, but mostly Linux. Most of our volunteers were unfamiliar with
> computers.
>
> Eventually the people who had been accessing the Windows machines would go
> onto a Linux machine. I would frequently hear, where is this specific
> program? When my learning Linux volunteers would switch to Windows they
> would ask, where is this specific option; as most of them had moved from
> computer to computer on the different distributions I had choose to install
> of Linux as our main operating systems they had used different programs
> already to do the same thing. For example Open Office and ABI Word, Star
> Office, Libre Office, etc. all do the same thing INCLUDING that which
> Microsoft Word/Office have to offer.
>
> It seems as though closed source systems like Apple and Windows provide,
> as an example, frequently will not offer the options that Open Source
> software offers. Part of the reason for this is financial. Microsoft
> Corporation pays many people in order to bring you Microsoft Windows and
> its related products and adhere to budgets put in place; limiting the
> options that many people may want/need. If the source code is open source
> it provides a means for these people to add the options. Then if the choose
> to offer them to the community they can merge it upstream in the next
> software release; which happens many times faster than Microsoft offers
> (sometimes daily instead of every few years as in Microsoft Office), while
> providing the flexibility to use the same software on almost every platform
> imaginable including Microsoft Windows. Bill Gates would have a hard time
> with all of his money we gave him to do the same thing that an open source
> community can do in a very short amount of time. If this doesn?t make sense
> to you or you feel I am wrong, I encourage you to spend some time and look
> around. You need to understand that most of what you see is running Linux.
> Your smart TV?s, your cable box, your android phone, wireless access
> points, printers, modern ATM machines, most web services, drones, mail
> sorting machines, most electronic medical equipment, ??????? Keep looking
> around and investigate the influence or complete use of open source in it.
> It is everywhere, and as educators you really need to understand that in
> real life people will be using Linux and other open source software in
> their daily lives; which translates to jobs.
>
> From organizational structure, to the people who freely give, providing us
> with the many different communities, open source is what made most
> everything we see today. Open source is a very welcoming educational, and
> transparent way for everyone who wants to become involved in every single
> aspect of designing, building, and/or using software and hardware that is
> available; or that they have dreamed up, providing us with innovation and
> change in ways that a small group of executives with access to code and
> schematics may never have.
>
> Open source has been around since the very beginning of computing whether
> it was through collaboration of different entities or under the somewhat
> specific name of open source, and will continue to provide people with the
> opportunity to use this information to learn about how the world works
> around them; and if you so desire to build a closed source business with
> it, as the licensing provides people with this and many many opportunities
> to use it however they can imagine. Microsoft and Apple both provide the
> open source community with philanthropy and code; on occasion. Many
> commercial enterprises offer support including financial to the open source
> communities on an ongoing basis; frequently because their business was
> built using open source hardware and software. There are companies who
> offer support to the end users of said communities as well as a very large
> number of people available at any time to answer questions freely and with
> passion. There is a symbiotic relationship between the 2 (open and closed
> source) and to ignore the open source community and Linux is an act of
> ignorance at this point in my speech. To avoid research and use of these
> technologies in an education environment, other than universities who
> already incorporate and innovate these technologies, would be a choice I
> hope no one listening to this or reading this after my speech will make.
>
> It should be noted that our government is the primary funder and founder
> of these open source projects and brought us modern day computing as we
> know it. This is not a business exclusive relationship, but one that
> crosses international, cultural, and civil borders and is comprised of
> educational, business, government, and civilian peoples from every walk of
> life with varying interests and goals united together.
>
>
> none of this needs to be in here, it is only my first draft. i can scrap
> it and start over as i often do.
>
> i am open to all criticisms as this is important to the other kids in the
> school out here (potentially other schools); my kids will have plenty of
> skills regardless of any end results.
>
> *This is so fun!*
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding augmented reality, I have been working on it for a while now.
>> There
>> is a LOT to it, not just hardware, btu good hardware is key.
>>
>> I used the Microsoft product (name escapes me) and will be working with
>> the
>> Oculus Rift DK2 on Saturday. My searches for Linux software and drivers
>> that
>> are necessary in order to use the ready-made API show that there is little
>> out there at the moment. If anyone has any info that I should be looking
>> at,
>> please share.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 06:55:28 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 06:55:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGG55qrOf5sFVmKAuh4kG-GWL1PtVhea=NmFeWKAi2Tww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com>
 <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOGG55qrOf5sFVmKAuh4kG-GWL1PtVhea=NmFeWKAi2Tww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOEtTAUdREuyZN25_8MRwpf+xifWXtvcu+R8+BbGrgf-nQ@mail.gmail.com>

I can see me giving a Ted Talk someday with this speech; after we tone it
down and make the language more concise.
so tell us chris, how did you make such a difference in the educational
community....

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> please be brutally honest!
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> i have my opening statement done. it may be a bit overconfident/smug or
>> not. i have to be careful with my head injuries to not just say the first
>> thing that comes to into my head. i would like to put  up a website using
>> something like hostinger to document the process to assist others who may
>> have the same opportunity that i have been provided with.
>>
>>    Let me start by saying that in a way, I am an educator. I started a
>> nonprofit 501c3 to give native cultures in the western hemisphere access to
>> education, technology, and commerce. We started a diabetes awareness
>> program for which we had booths set up at places such as The Science Museum
>> of Minnesota. There is also a syndicated radio show named Indigenous in
>> Music that was formed from this project that was set up and designed by me.
>> (Currently being made weekly using the same setup I made, but done by a 15
>> year old Native American boy with remarkable quality.)
>>
>> At the chamber of commerce, IICOC (Indigenous Internet Chamber of
>> Commerce), I received donated computers, mostly used, and would DBAN the
>> hard drives to completely remove the previous contents and install a
>> variety of different operating systems on them such as Microsoft Windows,
>> Mac, FreeBSD, but mostly Linux. Most of our volunteers were unfamiliar with
>> computers.
>>
>> Eventually the people who had been accessing the Windows machines would
>> go onto a Linux machine. I would frequently hear, where is this specific
>> program? When my learning Linux volunteers would switch to Windows they
>> would ask, where is this specific option; as most of them had moved from
>> computer to computer on the different distributions I had choose to install
>> of Linux as our main operating systems they had used different programs
>> already to do the same thing. For example Open Office and ABI Word, Star
>> Office, Libre Office, etc. all do the same thing INCLUDING that which
>> Microsoft Word/Office have to offer.
>>
>> It seems as though closed source systems like Apple and Windows provide,
>> as an example, frequently will not offer the options that Open Source
>> software offers. Part of the reason for this is financial. Microsoft
>> Corporation pays many people in order to bring you Microsoft Windows and
>> its related products and adhere to budgets put in place; limiting the
>> options that many people may want/need. If the source code is open source
>> it provides a means for these people to add the options. Then if the choose
>> to offer them to the community they can merge it upstream in the next
>> software release; which happens many times faster than Microsoft offers
>> (sometimes daily instead of every few years as in Microsoft Office), while
>> providing the flexibility to use the same software on almost every platform
>> imaginable including Microsoft Windows. Bill Gates would have a hard time
>> with all of his money we gave him to do the same thing that an open source
>> community can do in a very short amount of time. If this doesn?t make sense
>> to you or you feel I am wrong, I encourage you to spend some time and look
>> around. You need to understand that most of what you see is running Linux.
>> Your smart TV?s, your cable box, your android phone, wireless access
>> points, printers, modern ATM machines, most web services, drones, mail
>> sorting machines, most electronic medical equipment, ??????? Keep looking
>> around and investigate the influence or complete use of open source in it.
>> It is everywhere, and as educators you really need to understand that in
>> real life people will be using Linux and other open source software in
>> their daily lives; which translates to jobs.
>>
>> From organizational structure, to the people who freely give, providing
>> us with the many different communities, open source is what made most
>> everything we see today. Open source is a very welcoming educational, and
>> transparent way for everyone who wants to become involved in every single
>> aspect of designing, building, and/or using software and hardware that is
>> available; or that they have dreamed up, providing us with innovation and
>> change in ways that a small group of executives with access to code and
>> schematics may never have.
>>
>> Open source has been around since the very beginning of computing whether
>> it was through collaboration of different entities or under the somewhat
>> specific name of open source, and will continue to provide people with the
>> opportunity to use this information to learn about how the world works
>> around them; and if you so desire to build a closed source business with
>> it, as the licensing provides people with this and many many opportunities
>> to use it however they can imagine. Microsoft and Apple both provide the
>> open source community with philanthropy and code; on occasion. Many
>> commercial enterprises offer support including financial to the open source
>> communities on an ongoing basis; frequently because their business was
>> built using open source hardware and software. There are companies who
>> offer support to the end users of said communities as well as a very large
>> number of people available at any time to answer questions freely and with
>> passion. There is a symbiotic relationship between the 2 (open and closed
>> source) and to ignore the open source community and Linux is an act of
>> ignorance at this point in my speech. To avoid research and use of these
>> technologies in an education environment, other than universities who
>> already incorporate and innovate these technologies, would be a choice I
>> hope no one listening to this or reading this after my speech will make.
>>
>> It should be noted that our government is the primary funder and founder
>> of these open source projects and brought us modern day computing as we
>> know it. This is not a business exclusive relationship, but one that
>> crosses international, cultural, and civil borders and is comprised of
>> educational, business, government, and civilian peoples from every walk of
>> life with varying interests and goals united together.
>>
>>
>> none of this needs to be in here, it is only my first draft. i can scrap
>> it and start over as i often do.
>>
>> i am open to all criticisms as this is important to the other kids in the
>> school out here (potentially other schools); my kids will have plenty of
>> skills regardless of any end results.
>>
>> *This is so fun!*
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding augmented reality, I have been working on it for a while now.
>>> There
>>> is a LOT to it, not just hardware, btu good hardware is key.
>>>
>>> I used the Microsoft product (name escapes me) and will be working with
>>> the
>>> Oculus Rift DK2 on Saturday. My searches for Linux software and drivers
>>> that
>>> are necessary in order to use the ready-made API show that there is
>>> little
>>> out there at the moment. If anyone has any info that I should be looking
>>> at,
>>> please share.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Aug 25 08:55:17 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:55:17 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com>

Let me take this opportunity to remind everyone as old as I and enlighten
all younger of the Boulder Pledge, by one of America's greats. Impatient
souls scroll to the bottom:

http://www.panix.com/~tbetz/boulder.shtml

(It has been on my custom e-mail headers for many years now.)


From chrome at real-time.com  Thu Aug 25 09:19:36 2016
From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:19:36 -0400
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
In-Reply-To: <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com>
References: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <20160825141936.GG14253@real-time.com>

On 08/25 01:55 , Iznogoud wrote:
> Let me take this opportunity to remind everyone as old as I and enlighten
> all younger of the Boulder Pledge, by one of America's greats. Impatient
> souls scroll to the bottom:
> 
> http://www.panix.com/~tbetz/boulder.shtml

And yet, apparently enough people actually *do* respond to spam; or, more
precisely the clients of the marketers *think* enough people respond to
spam, that it continues.

I must say that even I was a bit shocked when I was reminded that 2.8MB used
to be a *lot* of mail. I remember blowing up at someone for having the
idiotic gall to e-mail me a 1.5MB .tiff image. Now, 2+MB is likely to be a
single message and we don't even blink.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 09:33:14 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:33:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
Message-ID: <CABWFOjsho0d1nUZKRk1cQfLTqktcWuuP8x1irSKXGHfKgiNt6g@mail.gmail.com>

Iznogoud writes:

>> And, I'm having trouble getting Ben Shapiro podcasts to play
>> on this machine.   (I'm using an ethernet connection while the
>>wireless is down,)
>>
>> I'm able for example, to watch bsdnow.tv podcasts without a
>> problem.  But I'm not getting any sound when I try to listen to
>> to this.
>>
>> http://www.dailywire.com/podcasts/8606/ben-shapiro-
show-ep-170-hillary-clinton-opens-ben-shapiro
>>
>> I'v tried two ways to get it to work.
>> 1. Clicking on the links..
>> 2. Downloading an mp3 file.
>>
>> When I downloaded the mp3, it said it needed to install
>> gstreamer.  So I let it do that, but that didn't seem to help.
>> I've tried both of the above things several times,  but I haven't
>> tried rebooting.
>>
>
> As an FYI, "MPlayer" is the _best_ player for both archived (on your
drive)
> and streaming media. You want that, and you can easily build it from
source.
> It has "skins" and GUIs that go with it for people who do not like the
CLI.
>
> But your core problem is in ALSA, the Advanced Linux Sounds System,
> configuration. In a terminal hit "alsamixer' and see the graphical
sliders.
> Move left right with the cursor keys and keep hitting "M" to mute and
unmute
> channels. The issue, I think, is that one way of palying the stream uses a
> PCM ALSA device and another something else. The one that plays is not
> muted
> and the other one is. It can also be the "jack sense" that needs to be
muted.
> That is just the sensor that tries to figure out if you have plugged in
the
> jack for headphones or not.
>
> Looks like you need to do some reading on that as well. Report back.

I got it working with MPlayer.  Before trying mplayer, I tried alsamixer,
but wasn't able to figure out how to fix things with that.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Aug 25 10:04:03 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:04:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOEAgA9SU6CemMBzGh0nMfB9LKqFu-=89HDaUhvPJzxyeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <41673f05-0a1c-9273-9371-642482e2c1d9@kateley.com>
 <57BB5EF2.70303@pinenet.com> <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57BF08E3.3010308@pinenet.com>

I don't analyze other people. I'll share a perspective, however. It 
might offend you, might not.

Living out here I've met some native cultures. An old guy, Michael Cho 
became a friend. He loved our raspberries. I gave him some stone 
artifacts. He gave me some walleye. He later introduced me to Tom 
Redbear, an artist. I gave Tom some stone table tops from ancient 
chemistry benches salvaged from the U of M. Tom gave (sold) me an 
incredible carved bear still in our living room. I don't know why my 
wife tied a ribbon bow around its neck. But if you're married with 
children you know not to ask questions.

Who knows what creative people of good will can do with the right 
materials and tools?? Who wants to stop creativity and sharing?? Linux 
is just a great opportunity for creative computing and community 
sharing. It would simply be fun to see what a new generation can make 
happen with the tools and raw material you already seem to provide. This 
isn't a business deal. It's a caring parent deal. And that comes through 
fine.

Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> i have my opening statement done. it may be a bit overconfident/smug 
> or not. i have to be careful with my head injuries to not just say the 
> first thing that comes to into my head. i would like to put  up a 
> website using something like hostinger to document the process to 
> assist others who may have the same opportunity that i have been 
> provided with.
>
>    Let me start by saying that in a way, I am an educator. I started a 
> nonprofit 501c3 to give native cultures in the western hemisphere 
> access to education, technology, and commerce. We started a diabetes 
> awareness program for which we had booths set up at places such as The 
> Science Museum of Minnesota. There is also a syndicated radio show 
> named Indigenous in Music that was formed from this project that was 
> set up and designed by me. (Currently being made weekly using the same 
> setup I made, but done by a 15 year old Native American boy with 
> remarkable quality.)
>
> At the chamber of commerce, IICOC (Indigenous Internet Chamber of 
> Commerce), I received donated computers, mostly used, and would DBAN 
> the hard drives to completely remove the previous contents and install 
> a variety of different operating systems on them such as Microsoft 
> Windows, Mac, FreeBSD, but mostly Linux. Most of our volunteers were 
> unfamiliar with computers.
>
> Eventually the people who had been accessing the Windows machines 
> would go onto a Linux machine. I would frequently hear, where is this 
> specific program? When my learning Linux volunteers would switch to 
> Windows they would ask, where is this specific option; as most of them 
> had moved from computer to computer on the different distributions I 
> had choose to install of Linux as our main operating systems they had 
> used different programs already to do the same thing. For example Open 
> Office and ABI Word, Star Office, Libre Office, etc. all do the same 
> thing INCLUDING that which Microsoft Word/Office have to offer.
>
> It seems as though closed source systems like Apple and Windows 
> provide, as an example, frequently will not offer the options that 
> Open Source software offers. Part of the reason for this is financial. 
> Microsoft Corporation pays many people in order to bring you Microsoft 
> Windows and its related products and adhere to budgets put in place; 
> limiting the options that many people may want/need. If the source 
> code is open source it provides a means for these people to add the 
> options. Then if the choose to offer them to the community they can 
> merge it upstream in the next software release; which happens many 
> times faster than Microsoft offers (sometimes daily instead of every 
> few years as in Microsoft Office), while providing the flexibility to 
> use the same software on almost every platform imaginable including 
> Microsoft Windows. Bill Gates would have a hard time with all of his 
> money we gave him to do the same thing that an open source community 
> can do in a very short amount of time. If this doesn?t make sense to 
> you or you feel I am wrong, I encourage you to spend some time and 
> look around. You need to understand that most of what you see is 
> running Linux. Your smart TV?s, your cable box, your android phone, 
> wireless access points, printers, modern ATM machines, most web 
> services, drones, mail sorting machines, most electronic medical 
> equipment, 






 Keep looking around and investigate the influence 
> or complete use of open source in it. It is everywhere, and as 
> educators you really need to understand that in real life people will 
> be using Linux and other open source software in their daily lives; 
> which translates to jobs.
>
> From organizational structure, to the people who freely give, 
> providing us with the many different communities, open source is what 
> made most everything we see today. Open source is a very welcoming 
> educational, and transparent way for everyone who wants to become 
> involved in every single aspect of designing, building, and/or using 
> software and hardware that is available; or that they have dreamed up, 
> providing us with innovation and change in ways that a small group of 
> executives with access to code and schematics may never have.
>
> Open source has been around since the very beginning of computing 
> whether it was through collaboration of different entities or under 
> the somewhat specific name of open source, and will continue to 
> provide people with the opportunity to use this information to learn 
> about how the world works around them; and if you so desire to build a 
> closed source business with it, as the licensing provides people with 
> this and many many opportunities to use it however they can imagine. 
> Microsoft and Apple both provide the open source community with 
> philanthropy and code; on occasion. Many commercial enterprises offer 
> support including financial to the open source communities on an 
> ongoing basis; frequently because their business was built using open 
> source hardware and software. There are companies who offer support to 
> the end users of said communities as well as a very large number of 
> people available at any time to answer questions freely and with 
> passion. There is a symbiotic relationship between the 2 (open and 
> closed source) and to ignore the open source community and Linux is an 
> act of ignorance at this point in my speech. To avoid research and use 
> of these technologies in an education environment, other than 
> universities who already incorporate and innovate these technologies, 
> would be a choice I hope no one listening to this or reading this 
> after my speech will make.
>
> It should be noted that our government is the primary funder and 
> founder of these open source projects and brought us modern day 
> computing as we know it. This is not a business exclusive 
> relationship, but one that crosses international, cultural, and civil 
> borders and is comprised of educational, business, government, and 
> civilian peoples from every walk of life with varying interests and 
> goals united together.
>
>
> none of this needs to be in here, it is only my first draft. i can 
> scrap it and start over as i often do.
>
> i am open to all criticisms as this is important to the other kids in 
> the school out here (potentially other schools); my kids will have 
> plenty of skills regardless of any end results.
>
> */This is so fun!/*
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com 
> <mailto:iznogoud at nobelware.com>> wrote:
>
>     Regarding augmented reality, I have been working on it for a while
>     now. There
>     is a LOT to it, not just hardware, btu good hardware is key.
>
>     I used the Microsoft product (name escapes me) and will be working
>     with the
>     Oculus Rift DK2 on Saturday. My searches for Linux software and
>     drivers that
>     are necessary in order to use the ready-made API show that there
>     is little
>     out there at the moment. If anyone has any info that I should be
>     looking at,
>     please share.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 10:35:32 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 10:35:32 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
In-Reply-To: <20160825141936.GG14253@real-time.com>
References: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com> <20160825141936.GG14253@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOH_wNG-vAo_1vNsMmzJRreL0yX4oSDPdNf5U7tvX=scsg@mail.gmail.com>

the lady on the news this morning said they have phishing training there
and she and many others failed the test

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom <
chrome at real-time.com> wrote:

> On 08/25 01:55 , Iznogoud wrote:
> > Let me take this opportunity to remind everyone as old as I and enlighten
> > all younger of the Boulder Pledge, by one of America's greats. Impatient
> > souls scroll to the bottom:
> >
> > http://www.panix.com/~tbetz/boulder.shtml
>
> And yet, apparently enough people actually *do* respond to spam; or, more
> precisely the clients of the marketers *think* enough people respond to
> spam, that it continues.
>
> I must say that even I was a bit shocked when I was reminded that 2.8MB
> used
> to be a *lot* of mail. I remember blowing up at someone for having the
> idiotic gall to e-mail me a 1.5MB .tiff image. Now, 2+MB is likely to be a
> single message and we don't even blink.
>
> --
> Carl Soderstrom
> Systems Administrator
> Real-Time Enterprises
> www.real-time.com
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Aug 25 13:45:23 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 18:45:23 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <57BF08E3.3010308@pinenet.com>
References: <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BF08E3.3010308@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20160825184523.GA25865@nobelware.com>

Maybe TCLUG and the Penguins can have a VR setup at next years Northern Spark.

Or better yet, see if a 3rd Thursday at MIA can have some "do crap with open
source software" activity. Takes planning and volunteers (do not look at me).


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Aug 25 13:53:59 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 18:53:59 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsho0d1nUZKRk1cQfLTqktcWuuP8x1irSKXGHfKgiNt6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsho0d1nUZKRk1cQfLTqktcWuuP8x1irSKXGHfKgiNt6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160825185359.GB25865@nobelware.com>

> 
> I got it working with MPlayer.  Before trying mplayer, I tried alsamixer,
> but wasn't able to figure out how to fix things with that.
>

Those are two separate things. ALSAmixer controls the output/input channels
of the ALSA chaining. MPlayer attaches to one of the ALSA channels and pushes
data through, but does not work at the hardware level (unless its codec does).

Regardless, I am glad the suggestion worked for you. MPlayer and MEncoder are
some of the best open-source software (OSS) I have ever used. I love so many
things about MPlayer, and where do I start... The fact that you can do all
kinds of filtering, cropping, rotating of the output is great. The fact that
you can perform format conversion, dictate frame-dropping, dictate the codec to
use, etc,... great. But the greatest power of MPlayer (in this guy's opinion)
is when you drive it from a filesystem pipe and have it operate like a blackbox
behind your own software. I do that for still image extraction, etc. Waaaaaay
too useful to go un-mentioned.


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 13:58:48 2016
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:58:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOH_wNG-vAo_1vNsMmzJRreL0yX4oSDPdNf5U7tvX=scsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com> <20160825141936.GG14253@real-time.com>
 <CA+G9TOH_wNG-vAo_1vNsMmzJRreL0yX4oSDPdNf5U7tvX=scsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5--wK+3jRb+At=fpf8s1SrCBWeKFCes0K-HdKBL-Wtk9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
<sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> the lady on the news this morning said they have phishing training there and
> she and many others failed the test

Somehow that isn't exactly surprising. Given what purports to be 'news' and the
characteristics displayed by those presenting its quite a wonder that
most of them
are able to breathe!

>rant off!

From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 07:59:44 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 07:59:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5--wK+3jRb+At=fpf8s1SrCBWeKFCes0K-HdKBL-Wtk9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com> <20160825141936.GG14253@real-time.com>
 <CA+G9TOH_wNG-vAo_1vNsMmzJRreL0yX4oSDPdNf5U7tvX=scsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPpdf5--wK+3jRb+At=fpf8s1SrCBWeKFCes0K-HdKBL-Wtk9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGDrVgqzDt2J0o0kGz3G_CrMj+DafOYGSRwjeR0L9QawQ@mail.gmail.com>

i watched the news that morning i saw that, but my wife says that i am not
supposed to watch it because i get angry. i don't have to look too hard to
get angry. i don't want to be a lawyer or politician, but it seems like i
almost have to. i have no idea what is going on in this ...... rant ......
but it seems pretty significant if you can turn on the news and be angry
instantly; for the way the manipulate to the what they say.    grr.

i figured if i win the lottery and have way too many millions i would start
a university in town here. mostly for me, but to see if i couldn't do a
better job of sending people into the world ready to make a difference with
time not money; money may be the bulk of our countries trouble and the
trouble with how much everyone wants (too much) of it. why...... shhhh   it
is alright sandwhicheyes breath......

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:58 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > the lady on the news this morning said they have phishing training there
> and
> > she and many others failed the test
>
> Somehow that isn't exactly surprising. Given what purports to be 'news'
> and the
> characteristics displayed by those presenting its quite a wonder that
> most of them
> are able to breathe!
>
> >rant off!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 08:28:46 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 08:28:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <20160825184523.GA25865@nobelware.com>
References: <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BF08E3.3010308@pinenet.com> <20160825184523.GA25865@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOESZ0kDo688Q9LboMCb1f5kW=Vbc5m9+F33c=SeNg0S+g@mail.gmail.com>

rick e i love your story. i may not be native, never did the dna thing yet,
and from what i understand there is no reason to be offended by anything
you have said. reminds me of the story of hennipen ave you don't often
hear. hennipen ave started out as a deer trail. when you hit uptown there
used to be a lake there towards lyndale. the natives would follow the deer
trail. it became a native trail at that point. eventually it turned into
the road you see today complete with removed lake.
natives have a tendency to kill themselves at an alarming rate. may of them
inwardly dislike themselves and many hate the "invaders" and as i have
spent 20 years immersed in this culture i can see many of the reasons why.
 we make them keep their AKC (american kennel club) type rating of 25% or
they are no longer a member of THEIR tribe. to maintain the native status
they must stay within their own tribe to keep it. there is financial
devastation on most reservations, in the USA, and to stay on the land to
keep their tribe alive is torment and trouble. it is failing and it has
been failing for as far back as i can tell from what i have learned.
i encourage all of you to look into this. nothing we can do (?) but it is
important to understand. we tried to have a site to sell goods from the
indigenous cultures so they can have income which is where the trouble all
starts. lack of resources in a small chunk of land; not to mention that the
leaders of these people are often like me and you with no help to
understand how to even build infrastructure. Yes prior lake is close to the
city so they get money from the casino, even with all that money you would
be surprised how difficult it is to understand and build infrastructure on
a small square when they are simply people like me and you. we would go
reservation to reservation, ahhhhh.. it is hard for people who really don't
want to ask for help to fully grasp what is expected from them in their
respective gov positions, especially without resources.

i am glad that the opening speech encouraged more conversation. i am going
to work on a 3 ring folder now. may call some of the larger businesses in
this state, and get some contacts for whomever wants, to call and verify
that the apparantly invisible and illusive Linux actually exists and skills
translate to jobs.  translates to jobs is my main focus. no code lock is
another problem that i wish to document. who knows anything about this EPIC
system that the hospitals use. any one have any ammo to bash this including
code lock; do they still use xp with those systems? ( i hope someday when i
type xp and other wndows type things that people will be like WHAT? what is
an xp.....

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Maybe TCLUG and the Penguins can have a VR setup at next years Northern
> Spark.
>
> Or better yet, see if a 3rd Thursday at MIA can have some "do crap with
> open
> source software" activity. Takes planning and volunteers (do not look at
> me).
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 08:53:16 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 08:53:16 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>

talking with tom makes me think about this, and i apologize as i have yet
to do appropriate research, what if to log into a node to access the mesh
network you were required to open up a email like protocol similar to what
you isp does. you can do it anonomously and it wouldn't be email, it would
be a way to choose the type of alerts you will get and would communicate
with your node directly so that the hardware attached to the router will
send an alert to your piece of hardware; which could be anything from a
pants button to a cell phone to a server cluster ...

thinking out loud here
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 09:33:42 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:33:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] open source/Linux presentation
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOESZ0kDo688Q9LboMCb1f5kW=Vbc5m9+F33c=SeNg0S+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1471899050.11832.53.camel@pureice.com>
 <CA+G9TOHyYypNVEwDOVuiXoBDSKSnFD029pSZ3KG076g7exckTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOEV+XQyepa56vSOT61-OvsLkEE_5nQSG6vVHpc_fi9Ecg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1A1CF72F-7AE7-4F30-B95A-ACD3AE7E8C66@cwis.biz>
 <e6600641-d3c0-eb99-b2ba-46596754ec04@meltel.net>
 <4F9E1378-714F-445B-8C08-46584781AEA2@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOGRPuJmYCsPf4OLq4ss_1Mv9+rGNwvKedvsRGui5X25Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160824035917.GB29176@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHT8QhfNha6CAeUipAcO+KBTqGHRsnQNfrUUDNbahWmvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57BF08E3.3010308@pinenet.com> <20160825184523.GA25865@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOESZ0kDo688Q9LboMCb1f5kW=Vbc5m9+F33c=SeNg0S+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGqvnuqzC3FmQogeEzc3kXQOaSpA67+2=f+VJu2RvVghw@mail.gmail.com>

also i am sure you can imagine how well Linux works with indigenous
governments, individuals who are poor, and/or people new to computers.
people who are new to computers i will use Linux because of how i seen it
affect people who had volunteered at the chamber. i put Linux in as much as
i can for people who look to me for advice and to learn. I can see a need
for installing windows in a machine for someone who absolutely is convinced
that they will miss out if they use Linux since interest is a factor in
learning, i just try and remember who they are and try and learn what they
end up using it for so i can find open source "alternatives" for then and
try and draw their interest in these "alternatives"; even though to me
windows is sorta an alternative (one i rarely think about).

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> rick e i love your story. i may not be native, never did the dna thing
> yet, and from what i understand there is no reason to be offended by
> anything you have said. reminds me of the story of hennipen ave you don't
> often hear. hennipen ave started out as a deer trail. when you hit uptown
> there used to be a lake there towards lyndale. the natives would follow the
> deer trail. it became a native trail at that point. eventually it turned
> into the road you see today complete with removed lake.
> natives have a tendency to kill themselves at an alarming rate. may of
> them inwardly dislike themselves and many hate the "invaders" and as i have
> spent 20 years immersed in this culture i can see many of the reasons why.
>  we make them keep their AKC (american kennel club) type rating of 25% or
> they are no longer a member of THEIR tribe. to maintain the native status
> they must stay within their own tribe to keep it. there is financial
> devastation on most reservations, in the USA, and to stay on the land to
> keep their tribe alive is torment and trouble. it is failing and it has
> been failing for as far back as i can tell from what i have learned.
> i encourage all of you to look into this. nothing we can do (?) but it is
> important to understand. we tried to have a site to sell goods from the
> indigenous cultures so they can have income which is where the trouble all
> starts. lack of resources in a small chunk of land; not to mention that the
> leaders of these people are often like me and you with no help to
> understand how to even build infrastructure. Yes prior lake is close to the
> city so they get money from the casino, even with all that money you would
> be surprised how difficult it is to understand and build infrastructure on
> a small square when they are simply people like me and you. we would go
> reservation to reservation, ahhhhh.. it is hard for people who really don't
> want to ask for help to fully grasp what is expected from them in their
> respective gov positions, especially without resources.
>
> i am glad that the opening speech encouraged more conversation. i am going
> to work on a 3 ring folder now. may call some of the larger businesses in
> this state, and get some contacts for whomever wants, to call and verify
> that the apparantly invisible and illusive Linux actually exists and skills
> translate to jobs.  translates to jobs is my main focus. no code lock is
> another problem that i wish to document. who knows anything about this EPIC
> system that the hospitals use. any one have any ammo to bash this including
> code lock; do they still use xp with those systems? ( i hope someday when i
> type xp and other wndows type things that people will be like WHAT? what is
> an xp.....
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe TCLUG and the Penguins can have a VR setup at next years Northern
>> Spark.
>>
>> Or better yet, see if a 3rd Thursday at MIA can have some "do crap with
>> open
>> source software" activity. Takes planning and volunteers (do not look at
>> me).
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Aug 26 14:00:33 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 14:00:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5--wK+3jRb+At=fpf8s1SrCBWeKFCes0K-HdKBL-Wtk9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com> <20160825141936.GG14253@real-time.com>
 <CA+G9TOH_wNG-vAo_1vNsMmzJRreL0yX4oSDPdNf5U7tvX=scsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPpdf5--wK+3jRb+At=fpf8s1SrCBWeKFCes0K-HdKBL-Wtk9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CEC3A3B-5825-4B59-B786-E00A624FB34A@cwis.biz>

20 years online and even *I* fail the test some days.


> On Aug 25, 2016, at 1:58 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
> <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
>> the lady on the news this morning said they have phishing training there and
>> she and many others failed the test
> 
> Somehow that isn't exactly surprising. Given what purports to be 'news' and the
> characteristics displayed by those presenting its quite a wonder that
> most of them
> are able to breathe!
> 
>> rant off!
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Aug 26 14:02:53 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 14:02:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>

I am not understanding your thoughts here?

What?s the concern? Your traffic is traced no matter what you?re connected to or where; if I am sniffing the packets I can find out which node you?re on or I can look at the management side and see which radio you?re on.

MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs. That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.

There?s no true anonymous connection. You have to have data get back to you somehow so your MAC is always included in the packets.


> On Aug 26, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> talking with tom makes me think about this, and i apologize as i have yet to do appropriate research, what if to log into a node to access the mesh network you were required to open up a email like protocol similar to what you isp does. you can do it anonomously and it wouldn't be email, it would be a way to choose the type of alerts you will get and would communicate with your node directly so that the hardware attached to the router will send an alert to your piece of hardware; which could be anything from a pants button to a cell phone to a server cluster ... 
> 
> thinking out loud here
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Aug 26 14:47:27 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 19:47:27 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 02:02:53PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> 
> MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs. That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.
>

What this person said.

There is no need for anyone to have any more accounts... This is purely an
access mechanism that is "self healing" (in lack of a better phrase). And
there can certainly be limits that are put on access so that abuse is kept
to a minimum.

Accounts go with account/service providers. Use "twitter" for example and
have the mesh be a medium. No? 

From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Aug 27 07:41:51 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 07:41:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] netflix scam
In-Reply-To: <3CEC3A3B-5825-4B59-B786-E00A624FB34A@cwis.biz>
References: <CA+G9TOF3d=ko8DYx7QDqowG0i0208oRFM6zFsWC0qJLt5X0EGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160825135517.GA15439@nobelware.com> <20160825141936.GG14253@real-time.com>
 <CA+G9TOH_wNG-vAo_1vNsMmzJRreL0yX4oSDPdNf5U7tvX=scsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPpdf5--wK+3jRb+At=fpf8s1SrCBWeKFCes0K-HdKBL-Wtk9Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <3CEC3A3B-5825-4B59-B786-E00A624FB34A@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOELPjC5zeuOi-fYHBnA4KZOBigvbNx=0J5eBHQO9Mtdvg@mail.gmail.com>

please *click here* to receive your reward aaayyyy

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

> 20 years online and even *I* fail the test some days.
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 2016, at 1:58 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
> > <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> the lady on the news this morning said they have phishing training
> there and
> >> she and many others failed the test
> >
> > Somehow that isn't exactly surprising. Given what purports to be 'news'
> and the
> > characteristics displayed by those presenting its quite a wonder that
> > most of them
> > are able to breathe!
> >
> >> rant off!
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Aug 27 08:04:25 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 08:04:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>

it wouldn't have to be anon i just assume that is a concern to people.
granted i have a limited understanding of mesh, but that doesn't mean that
it can't be imagined in a different light. the general idea is when you
hook up and are given an ip address you could be given alerts. how you get
these alerts and whether or not there is hardware on the node/router unit
in your home is what the question is.
lets say the sirens go off, yes the air raid sirens are our alert system
out here, and the fire dept volunteers are up and running. lets say the
sirens are out due to power loss. the fireman have a node and it alerts
them according to the sign in they used that had required them to choose
which alerts to get or whether or not to get them at all. teacher is at
school and ships out homework. a child at home receives alerts due to the
sign in system which makes you choose which alerts to receive or whether to
receive them at all. the city has a meeting and someone wants to watch but
doesn't want the city hall people to know for whatever reason; idk there
could be a reason to be anonomous. i am so busy right now that i am not
doing my due diligence but i don't want to forget a good idea or sit and
think about a good idea when it is in reality not a good idea. as i wrap my
head around this i realize that there is nothing written in stone, not all
ideas are going to work, and that there is still much for me to learn.
School talk is taking most of my time right now. and this clover pos
system. i did security research on it for a business out here. while i was
trying to learn about it their website went down. i am like wow they can't
handle html but they are providing a secure pos system? but mostly the
school talk is my focus for the next week here. i will offer more sound
(but still odd) ideas in the near future.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 02:02:53PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> >
> > MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are
> designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs.
> That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either
> fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.
> >
>
> What this person said.
>
> There is no need for anyone to have any more accounts... This is purely an
> access mechanism that is "self healing" (in lack of a better phrase). And
> there can certainly be limits that are put on access so that abuse is kept
> to a minimum.
>
> Accounts go with account/service providers. Use "twitter" for example and
> have the mesh be a medium. No?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Aug 27 08:06:57 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 08:06:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFv1V_tmuu4=PpBz3uAX+dr1C-aBdW5NSfJUq4hMvq-Kw@mail.gmail.com>

also i am not even considering abuse or security concerns with anonymity.
it is just something that i think about as an option.
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sat Aug 27 10:09:06 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 10:09:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>


> On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> it wouldn't have to be anon i just assume that is a concern to people. granted i have a limited understanding of mesh, but that doesn't mean that it can't be imagined in a different light. the general idea is when you hook up and are given an ip address you could be given alerts. how you get these alerts and whether or not there is hardware on the node/router unit in your home is what the question is. 
> lets say the sirens go off, yes the air raid sirens are our alert system out here, and the fire dept volunteers are up and running. lets say the sirens are out due to power loss.

Actually that?s the case everywhere in this fine country. We just called them tornado sirens but they?re classified as ?civilian alert sirens? but I digress. And if they are without power (because the required generator [2 I think?] is dead then they send someone to fix that and get it back up. When the CAS are without power that?s a liability for the county and they tend to give them first attention to get fixed which is why most municipalities test them more than the one day a month that Hennepin County tests them. I know Olmsted tests theirs every Wednesday morning with a growl test. I also know that Appleton, Wisconsin, fires theirs at 1pm every weekday. YMMV.

> the fireman have a node and it alerts them according to the sign in they used that had required them to choose which alerts to get or whether or not to get them at all. teacher is at school and ships out homework. a child at home receives alerts due to the sign in system which makes you choose which alerts to receive or whether to receive them at all. the city has a meeting and someone wants to watch but doesn't want the city hall people to know for whatever reason; idk there could be a reason to be anonymous.

I don?t see how this analogy equates? text alerts are better one - the CAS are there for all to hear whether they want to or not. Sometimes they?re late, sometimes not. 

DYK you can opt out of the amber alerts and weather alerts on your cell phone? Ahyep. https://www.google.com/?q=opt%20out%20of%20amber%20alerts%20on%20mobile

> i am so busy right now that i am not doing my due diligence

Paragraphs might help. :)

> but i don't want to forget a good idea or sit and think about a good idea when it is in reality not a good idea. as i wrap my head around this i realize that there is nothing written in stone, not all ideas are going to work, and that there is still much for me to learn.

If you want true anonymity either use TOR or GOML, unplug your computer, take the battery out of your smart phone and sell your car. This isn?t the 1850s anymore and we?ve had a long time to get used to the changes.

> School talk is taking most of my time right now. and this clover pos system. i did security research on it for a business out here. while i was trying to learn about it their website went down. i am like wow they can't handle html but they are providing a secure pos system? but mostly the school talk is my focus for the next week here. i will offer more sound (but still odd) ideas in the near future.

You?d be amazed how often you think someone?s website is down and, in reality, your link to their host?s system is down. I don?t want a product that spends thousands of dollars a year on a website that glitters in the sunlight if they have a solid product and stand behind it. 

What did you do before we had internet? :)

> 
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com <mailto:iznogoud at nobelware.com>> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 02:02:53PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> >
> > MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs. That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.
> >
> 
> What this person said.
> 
> There is no need for anyone to have any more accounts... This is purely an
> access mechanism that is "self healing" (in lack of a better phrase). And
> there can certainly be limits that are put on access so that abuse is kept
> to a minimum.
> 
> Accounts go with account/service providers. Use "twitter" for example and
> have the mesh be a medium. No?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 08:16:25 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 08:16:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>

Ryan Coleman their website was down as i had talked to them on the phone
and they told me. you seem to be angry about something. would you care to
elaborate on your attack? you seem to be against the idea of a think tank.
before the internet i used to buy a case of beer and go to a mechanics shop
and learn how to swap out engines and such. so much more work than looking
on the internet. i have no desire to be anon. i merely suggest that people,
not everyone is like you, seem to care about privacy. i appreciate your
response, but i have to say you sound like you are being a dick and almost
sound ignorant of the ideas that i have. curious, what did you do before
the internet, where you a troll then too?

I have spent several hours reading about and i can tell that there is so
much out there and in many different directions. my ideas are leading
me to some more ideas. open existence. a group similar to tclug to answer
questions from how to start a fire with 2 sticks to how to put
power back into the grid. i seen a man working in his garage and i thought
there is a man who can do something by himself without relying
someone else to do it for him. what if i had a disk full of free and
openly distributable information on how to make generator (a piece of
wire and a magnet isn't difficult to understand), how to farm, how to build
a $50 underground house , etc,; basically a disk full how to not
rely on the value or the dollar, while allowing you to put electric into
the local grid, food into the local area, mesh communication using
your existing radio/cell phone.  less big bank and more community. (yeah, i
pulled out the conspiracy theory card -ryan you
going to run with this?)
a group of people who care about community and people, when the power goes
out the local generators feed into the network. when
phones are out mesh keeps communications going.
Think like a Rotarian here people. not everyone is a recluse troll type,
many people want to go out of their homes and comfort zones
and communicate with like minded people and try and improve the lives of
people (rich/poor young/old am kindergarten/ pm kindergarten)
That is what research does to me. i think in terms of people, not money or
power.

The 4-Way Test

Of the things we think, say or do:





   1.

   Is it the TRUTH?
   2.

   Is it FAIR to all concerned?
   3.

   Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?
   4.

   Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?

I am not against harsh answers, even though they discourage me from trying
to do good, i will play along though. i hope you (my tclug peers)
understand if i get a little rude at times when i am discouraged. my
apologies if i upset anyone. i will do my best to separate content with
paragraphs. i am putting random ideas on tclug. connect mesh with linux
here: http://project-byzantium.org/ connect tclug with community and making
the world a better place for everyone; read the threads, we do that here.

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
wrote:

>
> On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> it wouldn't have to be anon i just assume that is a concern to people.
> granted i have a limited understanding of mesh, but that doesn't mean that
> it can't be imagined in a different light. the general idea is when you
> hook up and are given an ip address you could be given alerts. how you get
> these alerts and whether or not there is hardware on the node/router unit
> in your home is what the question is.
> lets say the sirens go off, yes the air raid sirens are our alert system
> out here, and the fire dept volunteers are up and running. lets say the
> sirens are out due to power loss.
>
>
> Actually that?s the case everywhere in this fine country. We just called
> them tornado sirens but they?re classified as ?civilian alert sirens? but I
> digress. And if they are without power (because the required generator [2 I
> think?] is dead then they send someone to fix that and get it back up. When
> the CAS are without power that?s a liability for the county and they tend
> to give them first attention to get fixed which is why most municipalities
> test them more than the one day a month that Hennepin County tests them. I
> know Olmsted tests theirs every Wednesday morning with a growl test. I also
> know that Appleton, Wisconsin, fires theirs at 1pm every weekday. YMMV.
>
> the fireman have a node and it alerts them according to the sign in they
> used that had required them to choose which alerts to get or whether or not
> to get them at all. teacher is at school and ships out homework. a child at
> home receives alerts due to the sign in system which makes you choose which
> alerts to receive or whether to receive them at all. the city has a meeting
> and someone wants to watch but doesn't want the city hall people to know
> for whatever reason; idk there could be a reason to be anonymous.
>
>
> I don?t see how this analogy equates? text alerts are better one - the CAS
> are there for all to hear whether they want to or not. Sometimes they?re
> late, sometimes not.
>
> DYK you can opt out of the amber alerts and weather alerts on your cell
> phone? Ahyep. https://www.google.com/?q=opt%20out%20of%20amber%
> 20alerts%20on%20mobile
>
> i am so busy right now that i am not doing my due diligence
>
>
> Paragraphs might help. :)
>
> but i don't want to forget a good idea or sit and think about a good idea
> when it is in reality not a good idea. as i wrap my head around this i
> realize that there is nothing written in stone, not all ideas are going to
> work, and that there is still much for me to learn.
>
>
> If you want true anonymity either use TOR or GOML, unplug your computer,
> take the battery out of your smart phone and sell your car. This isn?t the
> 1850s anymore and we?ve had a long time to get used to the changes.
>
> School talk is taking most of my time right now. and this clover pos
> system. i did security research on it for a business out here. while i was
> trying to learn about it their website went down. i am like wow they can't
> handle html but they are providing a secure pos system? but mostly the
> school talk is my focus for the next week here. i will offer more sound
> (but still odd) ideas in the near future.
>
>
> You?d be amazed how often you think someone?s website is down and, in
> reality, your link to their host?s system is down. I don?t want a product
> that spends thousands of dollars a year on a website that glitters in the
> sunlight if they have a solid product and stand behind it.
>
> What did you do before we had internet? :)
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 02:02:53PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> >
>> > MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are
>> designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs.
>> That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either
>> fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.
>> >
>>
>> What this person said.
>>
>> There is no need for anyone to have any more accounts... This is purely an
>> access mechanism that is "self healing" (in lack of a better phrase). And
>> there can certainly be limits that are put on access so that abuse is kept
>> to a minimum.
>>
>> Accounts go with account/service providers. Use "twitter" for example and
>> have the mesh be a medium. No?
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 08:17:01 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 08:17:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>

The 4-Way Test
Of the things we think, say or do:


Is it the TRUTH?
Is it FAIR to all concerned?
Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?
Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ryan Coleman their website was down as i had talked to them on the phone
> and they told me. you seem to be angry about something. would you care to
> elaborate on your attack? you seem to be against the idea of a think tank.
> before the internet i used to buy a case of beer and go to a mechanics shop
> and learn how to swap out engines and such. so much more work than looking
> on the internet. i have no desire to be anon. i merely suggest that people,
> not everyone is like you, seem to care about privacy. i appreciate your
> response, but i have to say you sound like you are being a dick and almost
> sound ignorant of the ideas that i have. curious, what did you do before
> the internet, where you a troll then too?
>
> I have spent several hours reading about and i can tell that there is so
> much out there and in many different directions. my ideas are leading
> me to some more ideas. open existence. a group similar to tclug to answer
> questions from how to start a fire with 2 sticks to how to put
> power back into the grid. i seen a man working in his garage and i thought
> there is a man who can do something by himself without relying
> someone else to do it for him. what if i had a disk full of free and
> openly distributable information on how to make generator (a piece of
> wire and a magnet isn't difficult to understand), how to farm, how to
> build a $50 underground house , etc,; basically a disk full how to not
> rely on the value or the dollar, while allowing you to put electric into
> the local grid, food into the local area, mesh communication using
> your existing radio/cell phone.  less big bank and more community. (yeah,
> i pulled out the conspiracy theory card -ryan you
> going to run with this?)
> a group of people who care about community and people, when the power goes
> out the local generators feed into the network. when
> phones are out mesh keeps communications going.
> Think like a Rotarian here people. not everyone is a recluse troll type,
> many people want to go out of their homes and comfort zones
> and communicate with like minded people and try and improve the lives of
> people (rich/poor young/old am kindergarten/ pm kindergarten)
> That is what research does to me. i think in terms of people, not money or
> power.
>
> The 4-Way Test
>
> Of the things we think, say or do:
>
>
>
>
>
>    1.
>
>    Is it the TRUTH?
>    2.
>
>    Is it FAIR to all concerned?
>    3.
>
>    Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?
>    4.
>
>    Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?
>
> I am not against harsh answers, even though they discourage me from trying
> to do good, i will play along though. i hope you (my tclug peers)
> understand if i get a little rude at times when i am discouraged. my
> apologies if i upset anyone. i will do my best to separate content with
> paragraphs. i am putting random ideas on tclug. connect mesh with linux
> here: http://project-byzantium.org/ connect tclug with community and
> making the world a better place for everyone; read the threads, we do that
> here.
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> it wouldn't have to be anon i just assume that is a concern to people.
>> granted i have a limited understanding of mesh, but that doesn't mean that
>> it can't be imagined in a different light. the general idea is when you
>> hook up and are given an ip address you could be given alerts. how you get
>> these alerts and whether or not there is hardware on the node/router unit
>> in your home is what the question is.
>> lets say the sirens go off, yes the air raid sirens are our alert system
>> out here, and the fire dept volunteers are up and running. lets say the
>> sirens are out due to power loss.
>>
>>
>> Actually that?s the case everywhere in this fine country. We just called
>> them tornado sirens but they?re classified as ?civilian alert sirens? but I
>> digress. And if they are without power (because the required generator [2 I
>> think?] is dead then they send someone to fix that and get it back up. When
>> the CAS are without power that?s a liability for the county and they tend
>> to give them first attention to get fixed which is why most municipalities
>> test them more than the one day a month that Hennepin County tests them. I
>> know Olmsted tests theirs every Wednesday morning with a growl test. I also
>> know that Appleton, Wisconsin, fires theirs at 1pm every weekday. YMMV.
>>
>> the fireman have a node and it alerts them according to the sign in they
>> used that had required them to choose which alerts to get or whether or not
>> to get them at all. teacher is at school and ships out homework. a child at
>> home receives alerts due to the sign in system which makes you choose which
>> alerts to receive or whether to receive them at all. the city has a meeting
>> and someone wants to watch but doesn't want the city hall people to know
>> for whatever reason; idk there could be a reason to be anonymous.
>>
>>
>> I don?t see how this analogy equates? text alerts are better one - the
>> CAS are there for all to hear whether they want to or not. Sometimes
>> they?re late, sometimes not.
>>
>> DYK you can opt out of the amber alerts and weather alerts on your cell
>> phone? Ahyep. https://www.google.com/?q=opt%20out%20of%20amber%20al
>> erts%20on%20mobile
>>
>> i am so busy right now that i am not doing my due diligence
>>
>>
>> Paragraphs might help. :)
>>
>> but i don't want to forget a good idea or sit and think about a good idea
>> when it is in reality not a good idea. as i wrap my head around this i
>> realize that there is nothing written in stone, not all ideas are going to
>> work, and that there is still much for me to learn.
>>
>>
>> If you want true anonymity either use TOR or GOML, unplug your computer,
>> take the battery out of your smart phone and sell your car. This isn?t the
>> 1850s anymore and we?ve had a long time to get used to the changes.
>>
>> School talk is taking most of my time right now. and this clover pos
>> system. i did security research on it for a business out here. while i was
>> trying to learn about it their website went down. i am like wow they can't
>> handle html but they are providing a secure pos system? but mostly the
>> school talk is my focus for the next week here. i will offer more sound
>> (but still odd) ideas in the near future.
>>
>>
>> You?d be amazed how often you think someone?s website is down and, in
>> reality, your link to their host?s system is down. I don?t want a product
>> that spends thousands of dollars a year on a website that glitters in the
>> sunlight if they have a solid product and stand behind it.
>>
>> What did you do before we had internet? :)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 02:02:53PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>> >
>>> > MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are
>>> designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs.
>>> That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either
>>> fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.
>>> >
>>>
>>> What this person said.
>>>
>>> There is no need for anyone to have any more accounts... This is purely
>>> an
>>> access mechanism that is "self healing" (in lack of a better phrase). And
>>> there can certainly be limits that are put on access so that abuse is
>>> kept
>>> to a minimum.
>>>
>>> Accounts go with account/service providers. Use "twitter" for example and
>>> have the mesh be a medium. No?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20160829/50fdf0c0/attachment-0001.html>

From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 08:18:19 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 08:18:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>

it doesn't look like the rotary 4 way test i live my life by isn't showing
up. here is a link if you are interested.
http://www.rhhif.org/FourWayTest.cfm

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The 4-Way Test
> Of the things we think, say or do:
>
>
> Is it the TRUTH?
> Is it FAIR to all concerned?
> Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?
> Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ryan Coleman their website was down as i had talked to them on the phone
>> and they told me. you seem to be angry about something. would you care to
>> elaborate on your attack? you seem to be against the idea of a think tank.
>> before the internet i used to buy a case of beer and go to a mechanics shop
>> and learn how to swap out engines and such. so much more work than looking
>> on the internet. i have no desire to be anon. i merely suggest that people,
>> not everyone is like you, seem to care about privacy. i appreciate your
>> response, but i have to say you sound like you are being a dick and almost
>> sound ignorant of the ideas that i have. curious, what did you do before
>> the internet, where you a troll then too?
>>
>> I have spent several hours reading about and i can tell that there is so
>> much out there and in many different directions. my ideas are leading
>> me to some more ideas. open existence. a group similar to tclug to answer
>> questions from how to start a fire with 2 sticks to how to put
>> power back into the grid. i seen a man working in his garage and i
>> thought there is a man who can do something by himself without relying
>> someone else to do it for him. what if i had a disk full of free and
>> openly distributable information on how to make generator (a piece of
>> wire and a magnet isn't difficult to understand), how to farm, how to
>> build a $50 underground house , etc,; basically a disk full how to not
>> rely on the value or the dollar, while allowing you to put electric into
>> the local grid, food into the local area, mesh communication using
>> your existing radio/cell phone.  less big bank and more community. (yeah,
>> i pulled out the conspiracy theory card -ryan you
>> going to run with this?)
>> a group of people who care about community and people, when the power
>> goes out the local generators feed into the network. when
>> phones are out mesh keeps communications going.
>> Think like a Rotarian here people. not everyone is a recluse troll type,
>> many people want to go out of their homes and comfort zones
>> and communicate with like minded people and try and improve the lives of
>> people (rich/poor young/old am kindergarten/ pm kindergarten)
>> That is what research does to me. i think in terms of people, not money
>> or power.
>>
>> The 4-Way Test
>>
>> Of the things we think, say or do:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    Is it the TRUTH?
>>    2.
>>
>>    Is it FAIR to all concerned?
>>    3.
>>
>>    Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?
>>    4.
>>
>>    Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?
>>
>> I am not against harsh answers, even though they discourage me from
>> trying to do good, i will play along though. i hope you (my tclug peers)
>> understand if i get a little rude at times when i am discouraged. my
>> apologies if i upset anyone. i will do my best to separate content with
>> paragraphs. i am putting random ideas on tclug. connect mesh with linux
>> here: http://project-byzantium.org/ connect tclug with community and
>> making the world a better place for everyone; read the threads, we do that
>> here.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> it wouldn't have to be anon i just assume that is a concern to people.
>>> granted i have a limited understanding of mesh, but that doesn't mean that
>>> it can't be imagined in a different light. the general idea is when you
>>> hook up and are given an ip address you could be given alerts. how you get
>>> these alerts and whether or not there is hardware on the node/router unit
>>> in your home is what the question is.
>>> lets say the sirens go off, yes the air raid sirens are our alert system
>>> out here, and the fire dept volunteers are up and running. lets say the
>>> sirens are out due to power loss.
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually that?s the case everywhere in this fine country. We just called
>>> them tornado sirens but they?re classified as ?civilian alert sirens? but I
>>> digress. And if they are without power (because the required generator [2 I
>>> think?] is dead then they send someone to fix that and get it back up. When
>>> the CAS are without power that?s a liability for the county and they tend
>>> to give them first attention to get fixed which is why most municipalities
>>> test them more than the one day a month that Hennepin County tests them. I
>>> know Olmsted tests theirs every Wednesday morning with a growl test. I also
>>> know that Appleton, Wisconsin, fires theirs at 1pm every weekday. YMMV.
>>>
>>> the fireman have a node and it alerts them according to the sign in they
>>> used that had required them to choose which alerts to get or whether or not
>>> to get them at all. teacher is at school and ships out homework. a child at
>>> home receives alerts due to the sign in system which makes you choose which
>>> alerts to receive or whether to receive them at all. the city has a meeting
>>> and someone wants to watch but doesn't want the city hall people to know
>>> for whatever reason; idk there could be a reason to be anonymous.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don?t see how this analogy equates? text alerts are better one - the
>>> CAS are there for all to hear whether they want to or not. Sometimes
>>> they?re late, sometimes not.
>>>
>>> DYK you can opt out of the amber alerts and weather alerts on your cell
>>> phone? Ahyep. https://www.google.com/?q=opt%20out%20of%20amber%20al
>>> erts%20on%20mobile
>>>
>>> i am so busy right now that i am not doing my due diligence
>>>
>>>
>>> Paragraphs might help. :)
>>>
>>> but i don't want to forget a good idea or sit and think about a good
>>> idea when it is in reality not a good idea. as i wrap my head around this i
>>> realize that there is nothing written in stone, not all ideas are going to
>>> work, and that there is still much for me to learn.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want true anonymity either use TOR or GOML, unplug your computer,
>>> take the battery out of your smart phone and sell your car. This isn?t the
>>> 1850s anymore and we?ve had a long time to get used to the changes.
>>>
>>> School talk is taking most of my time right now. and this clover pos
>>> system. i did security research on it for a business out here. while i was
>>> trying to learn about it their website went down. i am like wow they can't
>>> handle html but they are providing a secure pos system? but mostly the
>>> school talk is my focus for the next week here. i will offer more sound
>>> (but still odd) ideas in the near future.
>>>
>>>
>>> You?d be amazed how often you think someone?s website is down and, in
>>> reality, your link to their host?s system is down. I don?t want a product
>>> that spends thousands of dollars a year on a website that glitters in the
>>> sunlight if they have a solid product and stand behind it.
>>>
>>> What did you do before we had internet? :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 02:02:53PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are
>>>> designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs.
>>>> That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either
>>>> fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> What this person said.
>>>>
>>>> There is no need for anyone to have any more accounts... This is purely
>>>> an
>>>> access mechanism that is "self healing" (in lack of a better phrase).
>>>> And
>>>> there can certainly be limits that are put on access so that abuse is
>>>> kept
>>>> to a minimum.
>>>>
>>>> Accounts go with account/service providers. Use "twitter" for example
>>>> and
>>>> have the mesh be a medium. No?
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 10:26:12 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 10:26:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>

http://b1tsh1fter.blogspot.ca/2015/04/scalable-mesh-network-wifi-1.html

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> it doesn't look like the rotary 4 way test i live my life by isn't showing
> up. here is a link if you are interested.
> http://www.rhhif.org/FourWayTest.cfm
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The 4-Way Test
>> Of the things we think, say or do:
>>
>>
>> Is it the TRUTH?
>> Is it FAIR to all concerned?
>> Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?
>> Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ryan Coleman their website was down as i had talked to them on the
>>> phone and they told me. you seem to be angry about something. would you
>>> care to elaborate on your attack? you seem to be against the idea of a
>>> think tank. before the internet i used to buy a case of beer and go to a
>>> mechanics shop and learn how to swap out engines and such. so much more
>>> work than looking on the internet. i have no desire to be anon. i merely
>>> suggest that people, not everyone is like you, seem to care about privacy.
>>> i appreciate your response, but i have to say you sound like you are being
>>> a dick and almost sound ignorant of the ideas that i have. curious, what
>>> did you do before the internet, where you a troll then too?
>>>
>>> I have spent several hours reading about and i can tell that there is so
>>> much out there and in many different directions. my ideas are leading
>>> me to some more ideas. open existence. a group similar to tclug to
>>> answer questions from how to start a fire with 2 sticks to how to put
>>> power back into the grid. i seen a man working in his garage and i
>>> thought there is a man who can do something by himself without relying
>>> someone else to do it for him. what if i had a disk full of free and
>>> openly distributable information on how to make generator (a piece of
>>> wire and a magnet isn't difficult to understand), how to farm, how to
>>> build a $50 underground house , etc,; basically a disk full how to not
>>> rely on the value or the dollar, while allowing you to put electric into
>>> the local grid, food into the local area, mesh communication using
>>> your existing radio/cell phone.  less big bank and more community.
>>> (yeah, i pulled out the conspiracy theory card -ryan you
>>> going to run with this?)
>>> a group of people who care about community and people, when the power
>>> goes out the local generators feed into the network. when
>>> phones are out mesh keeps communications going.
>>> Think like a Rotarian here people. not everyone is a recluse troll type,
>>> many people want to go out of their homes and comfort zones
>>> and communicate with like minded people and try and improve the lives
>>> of people (rich/poor young/old am kindergarten/ pm kindergarten)
>>> That is what research does to me. i think in terms of people, not money
>>> or power.
>>>
>>> The 4-Way Test
>>>
>>> Of the things we think, say or do:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    1.
>>>
>>>    Is it the TRUTH?
>>>    2.
>>>
>>>    Is it FAIR to all concerned?
>>>    3.
>>>
>>>    Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS?
>>>    4.
>>>
>>>    Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned?
>>>
>>> I am not against harsh answers, even though they discourage me from
>>> trying to do good, i will play along though. i hope you (my tclug peers)
>>> understand if i get a little rude at times when i am discouraged. my
>>> apologies if i upset anyone. i will do my best to separate content with
>>> paragraphs. i am putting random ideas on tclug. connect mesh with linux
>>> here: http://project-byzantium.org/ connect tclug with community and
>>> making the world a better place for everyone; read the threads, we do that
>>> here.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> it wouldn't have to be anon i just assume that is a concern to people.
>>>> granted i have a limited understanding of mesh, but that doesn't mean that
>>>> it can't be imagined in a different light. the general idea is when
>>>> you hook up and are given an ip address you could be given alerts. how you
>>>> get these alerts and whether or not there is hardware on the node/router
>>>> unit in your home is what the question is.
>>>> lets say the sirens go off, yes the air raid sirens are our alert
>>>> system out here, and the fire dept volunteers are up and running. lets say
>>>> the sirens are out due to power loss.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually that?s the case everywhere in this fine country. We just
>>>> called them tornado sirens but they?re classified as ?civilian alert
>>>> sirens? but I digress. And if they are without power (because the required
>>>> generator [2 I think?] is dead then they send someone to fix that and get
>>>> it back up. When the CAS are without power that?s a liability for the
>>>> county and they tend to give them first attention to get fixed which is why
>>>> most municipalities test them more than the one day a month that Hennepin
>>>> County tests them. I know Olmsted tests theirs every Wednesday morning with
>>>> a growl test. I also know that Appleton, Wisconsin, fires theirs at 1pm
>>>> every weekday. YMMV.
>>>>
>>>> the fireman have a node and it alerts them according to the sign in
>>>> they used that had required them to choose which alerts to get or whether
>>>> or not to get them at all. teacher is at school and ships out homework. a
>>>> child at home receives alerts due to the sign in system which makes you
>>>> choose which alerts to receive or whether to receive them at all. the city
>>>> has a meeting and someone wants to watch but doesn't want the city hall
>>>> people to know for whatever reason; idk there could be a reason to be
>>>> anonymous.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don?t see how this analogy equates? text alerts are better one - the
>>>> CAS are there for all to hear whether they want to or not. Sometimes
>>>> they?re late, sometimes not.
>>>>
>>>> DYK you can opt out of the amber alerts and weather alerts on your cell
>>>> phone? Ahyep. https://www.google.com/?q=opt%20out%20of%20amber%20al
>>>> erts%20on%20mobile
>>>>
>>>> i am so busy right now that i am not doing my due diligence
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paragraphs might help. :)
>>>>
>>>> but i don't want to forget a good idea or sit and think about a good
>>>> idea when it is in reality not a good idea. as i wrap my head around this i
>>>> realize that there is nothing written in stone, not all ideas are going to
>>>> work, and that there is still much for me to learn.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want true anonymity either use TOR or GOML, unplug your
>>>> computer, take the battery out of your smart phone and sell your car. This
>>>> isn?t the 1850s anymore and we?ve had a long time to get used to the
>>>> changes.
>>>>
>>>> School talk is taking most of my time right now. and this clover pos
>>>> system. i did security research on it for a business out here. while i was
>>>> trying to learn about it their website went down. i am like wow they can't
>>>> handle html but they are providing a secure pos system? but mostly the
>>>> school talk is my focus for the next week here. i will offer more sound
>>>> (but still odd) ideas in the near future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You?d be amazed how often you think someone?s website is down and, in
>>>> reality, your link to their host?s system is down. I don?t want a product
>>>> that spends thousands of dollars a year on a website that glitters in the
>>>> sunlight if they have a solid product and stand behind it.
>>>>
>>>> What did you do before we had internet? :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 02:02:53PM -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > MESH networks do not have AP capabilities. They are nodes that are
>>>>> designed to allow for self-healing and then, from there, you have your APs.
>>>>> That?s the proper design, anything more complicated would probably either
>>>>> fail in a short period of time or be very overwhelmed.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> What this person said.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no need for anyone to have any more accounts... This is
>>>>> purely an
>>>>> access mechanism that is "self healing" (in lack of a better phrase).
>>>>> And
>>>>> there can certainly be limits that are put on access so that abuse is
>>>>> kept
>>>>> to a minimum.
>>>>>
>>>>> Accounts go with account/service providers. Use "twitter" for example
>>>>> and
>>>>> have the mesh be a medium. No?
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Aug 29 13:20:26 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 13:20:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19574436-5700-42F3-AE4B-E595D110D77E@cwis.biz>


> On Aug 29, 2016, at 8:16 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Ryan Coleman their website was down as i had talked to them on the phone and they told me. you seem to be angry about something.
> would you care to elaborate on your attack? you seem to be against the idea of a think tank. before the internet i used to buy a case of
> beer and go to a mechanics shop and learn how to swap out engines and such. so much more work than looking on the internet. i have
> no desire to be anon. i merely suggest that people, not everyone is like you, seem to care about privacy. i appreciate your response, but i
> have to say you sound like you are being a dick and almost sound ignorant of the ideas that i have. curious, what did you do before the
> internet, where you a troll then too?



Now, see, when I have to read this sentence across the width of my email 15x over (the line breaks I just added manually) and you?re claiming I was attacking that?s where I finish the conversation.

I like to be able to comprehend thoughts? paragraphs and line breaks convey such things. I don?t know WHY your email client made your first sentence a single line that went on and on and on but it is very hard to follow.

See, not everyone likes to read things in an orderly manner but most seem to care about legibility.
Oh and that right there (^^^^) was a shot across the bow.

All I ask is if you?re going to type please don?t make it one long paragraph. Thoughts can be broken up nicely and kindly and made simple to read.

If I was trolling I wouldn?t have put the smiles next to it? but that?s my style and probably can be found that way in the archives of this mailing list.
And before the internet I was in grade school. I?m a young pup (35).

*or we can make it one paragraph that very few people will bother reading*

Now, see, when I have to read this sentence across the width of my email 15x over (the line breaks I just added manually) and you?re claiming I was attacking that?s where I finish the conversation. I like to be able to comprehend thoughts? paragraphs and line breaks convey such things. I don?t know WHY your email client made your first sentence a single line that went on and on and on but it is very hard to follow. See, not everyone likes to read things in an orderly manner but most seem to care about legibility. Oh and that right there (^^^^) was a shot across the bow. All I ask is if you?re going to type please don?t make it one long paragraph. Thoughts can be broken up nicely and kindly and made simple to read. If I was trolling I wouldn?t have put the smiles next to it? but that?s my style and probably can be found that way in the archives of this mailing list. And before the internet I was in grade school. I?m a young pup (35).


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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 19:17:03 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 19:17:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screensaver problem
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvbFST8U2TM-d3sV0R=ir3kKhb1yWkQgudCx2fBT113XA@mail.gmail.com>

Two or three times since I installed Linux Mint last week,
I've come back to my laptop and not been able to get
the screensaver to give me a prompt where I can enter my
password.  The mouse still moves around, but pressing
keys seems to have no effect.  I wind up powering off the
machine and then restarting it.  I haven't configured the
screensaver in any way.  Any ideas on how to fix that?

Is anyone running BSD on their laptop?  Thanks in advance.


-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Aug 29 21:16:31 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 02:16:31 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>

Sandwich,
I think you will greatly benefit from looking for groups in meetup.com and
find more topics that seem well-aligned with your interests (which are many).
I follow a few local groups on there, like the Penguins.

I personally prefer to keep off-topic subjects short. Like, for example, any
sustainability discussion is only tangent to anything Linux or TC. I hope
this makes sense. I think the mesh discussion was quite tangential to this
list and, clearly, it has de-railed.

I also echo the sentiment of trying to use an email client that respects your
formatting. I use Mutt and I am typing in "vi" in a terminal right now. That
is why you may see my emails look like truncated text, but I try to keep them
as organized as possible.

With much respect.

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Aug 29 21:25:32 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 02:25:32 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Screensaver problem
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjvbFST8U2TM-d3sV0R=ir3kKhb1yWkQgudCx2fBT113XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjvbFST8U2TM-d3sV0R=ir3kKhb1yWkQgudCx2fBT113XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160830022532.GB3624@nobelware.com>

I should say that un-graceful shutdowns can corrupt the filesystem and should
be avoided. I'd connect to the laptop from a different machine and issue a
proper 'halt' or 'showdown now' to make it graceful.

Speaking of connecting to it, can you connect and make sure you check all logs
to see if any process has given any faults? In my experience, laptops have
hardware that is peculiar (by trying to be "smart") and drivers may well fail
in strange ways. Try "ALT+F1" (F1-F4 or so) to see if you can get a console
before giving up on the keyboard. You may have to configure SSHD properly in
order to connect form the outside (not sure what Mint has as a default config).

Disable the screensaver entirely and see how it behaves. Does it go into some
hibernation mode and when you wake it up it is upset or is it just happening
when you go to screensaver mode?


The best thing about BSD is that it is distributed fro ma single source as the
FreeBSD that we all (maybe) know. The worst thing about BSD is that it is not
as popular as Linux, but Apple is making it a lot easier for BSDers right now.
I used to run NetBSD in the 90s. I would say stick to Linux if you are not a
real Unix poweruser.


From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Aug 30 15:52:34 2016
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:52:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screensaver problem
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BPoPiEcdYj95oDEkdMy6zAem6zbkgiSUbWeNW-=erWfg@mail.gmail.com>

years ago iz, but in recent years, no, the powerloss variety of shutdowns
are far less likely to bite your filesystem than a harddisc failure, for
which you are making backups anyway, right?  trying to gain login via
ctl-alt-F2 or sshd is a fair suggestion if you want to try to diagnose
anything, try to fire up another session, or especially if you have screen,
tmux, or vnc already going.

unfortunately it's true drivers are often inadequate at recovering from
either sleep or hibernation, so disable those brian and see if that helps.
and if running the variety of screensavers that make the screen jump and
dance, well, for years these benign screensavers have elicited the worst
variety of latent display driver bugs, so disable those too.  without those
screensavers you hardly ever see those display bugs so sadly i get why
nobody gives them any priority for fixing.
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 30 19:47:33 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:47:33 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Screensaver problem
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BPoPiEcdYj95oDEkdMy6zAem6zbkgiSUbWeNW-=erWfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BPoPiEcdYj95oDEkdMy6zAem6zbkgiSUbWeNW-=erWfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160831004733.GA27674@nobelware.com>

Side-tracking a bit here. Yes, ext3 and ext4 (Linux natives) and XFS, etc,
and all journaled filesystem are very good at not having corruption, but
latest state data can be lost if the journal does not catch it before the
power is out. And I did have corruption with XFS (yes, XFS!) when I had some
power issues that were robbing drives of current and the kernel was coming up
with filesystem errors.

I am the master of backups... Never have lost a bit so far. And I love XFS,
the only contribution of SGI to the Linux kernel.

Back on track. I, too, think is a bit of a losing battle if hibernation is
involved, as I said earlier. I would not be too sad about it, but it would
be annoying.