From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 12:37:39 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 12:37:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look like a
	piece of cake
Message-ID: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>

Governor Dayton's recent remarks about Obamacare got
me wondering if I could find an exemption to Obamacare
taxes ($695!) for 2016.   And that will be going up next year.

I started with this video:
http://www.cchfreedom.org/about.php

Then I found this:
http://www.cchfreedom.org/files/files/Legal%20Alternatives%20to%20Obamacare.pdf

(The Citizens' Council for Health Freedom is a St. Paul
based organization and I'm thankful for their efforts.)

Eventually I got to this page
https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions-tool/#/results/2016/details/death-in-family

I had no idea that there was this sort of exemption and
so am letting others know that the death of a relative is
a way out of the headache known as Obamacare.  But
applying for this exemption is a headache in and of itself
and I'm not as free as I would like to be.

Also I would like to mention an idea that I had after hearing
Governor Dayton's remarks on Obamacare.  I think it would
be good if there was an income-based subsidy for immunizations
that people could get.   For example, $75 a year toward
immunizations.  Getting rid of MN Sure would probably
more than pay for the program.  What do you think?

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From chapinjeff at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 12:53:08 2016
From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 12:53:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJt84+PKZ4hddBkywt_aJ3rzw8PvcXSScbufbGCVc4XvW4VZ2A@mail.gmail.com>

I think that politics unrelated to technology, and religion in general are
off topic for this mailing list.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Governor Dayton's recent remarks about Obamacare got
> me wondering if I could find an exemption to Obamacare
> taxes ($695!) for 2016.   And that will be going up next year.
>
> I started with this video:
> http://www.cchfreedom.org/about.php
>
> Then I found this:
> http://www.cchfreedom.org/files/files/Legal%20Alternatives%20to%
> 20Obamacare.pdf
>
> (The Citizens' Council for Health Freedom is a St. Paul
> based organization and I'm thankful for their efforts.)
>
> Eventually I got to this page
> https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions-tool/#/results/
> 2016/details/death-in-family
>
> I had no idea that there was this sort of exemption and
> so am letting others know that the death of a relative is
> a way out of the headache known as Obamacare.  But
> applying for this exemption is a headache in and of itself
> and I'm not as free as I would like to be.
>
> Also I would like to mention an idea that I had after hearing
> Governor Dayton's remarks on Obamacare.  I think it would
> be good if there was an income-based subsidy for immunizations
> that people could get.   For example, $75 a year toward
> immunizations.  Getting rid of MN Sure would probably
> more than pay for the program.  What do you think?
>
> --
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>


-- 
Jeff Chapin
President, CedarLug, retired
President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
President, UNI Scuba Club
Senator, NISG, retired
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Oct 20 13:03:28 2016
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 13:03:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1610201301580.21651@cockerel.yaron.org>

Brian,

We've asked you many, many times to please leave off-topic stuff off the 
list. Specifically we've asked you to leave religion and politics out of 
it. I now reiterate:

PLEASE KEEP POSTS TO THE LIST ON-TOPIC. Politics and religion are NOT 
on-topic.





On Thu, 20 Oct 2016, Brian Wood wrote:

> 
> Governor Dayton's recent remarks about Obamacare got
> me wondering if I could find an exemption to Obamacare
> taxes ($695!) for 2016.?? And that will be going up next year.
> 
> I started with this video:
> http://www.cchfreedom.org/about.php
> 
> Then I found this:
> http://www.cchfreedom.org/files/files/Legal%20Alternatives%20to%20Obamacare
> .pdf
> 
> (The Citizens' Council for Health Freedom is a St. Paul
> based organization and I'm thankful for their efforts.)
> 
> Eventually I got to this page
> https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions-tool/#/results/2016/details/death-in-
> family
> 
> I had no idea that there was this sort of exemption and
> so am letting others know that the death of a relative is
> a way out of the headache known as Obamacare.? But
> applying for this exemption is a headache in and of itself
> and I'm not as free as I would like to be.?
> 
> Also I would like to mention an idea that I had after hearing
> Governor Dayton's remarks on Obamacare.? I think it would
> be good if there was an income-based subsidy for immunizations
> that people could get.?? For example, $75 a year toward
> immunizations.? Getting rid of MN Sure would probably
> more than pay for the program.? What do you think?
> 
> --
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net
> 
> 
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Oct 20 14:16:00 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 14:16:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <580917F0.3090906@pinenet.com>

I haven't been to a physician since I required a physical for "key man 
insurance" in our fiber optics start-up in 1983 (except some ear drops 
for an ear infection). I should get some vaccinations, but I get calls 
to keep donating blood to the Red Cross. Beware the Medical Industrial 
Complex.

As for Linux technology, (just to keep it on topic) I'm amazed by the 
XForms-toolkit. The maintainer, Jens Thoms Torring, is a Ph.D. chemical 
physicist (spectroscopy) now working in neurosciences. An early use of 
XForms-toolkit was a program called "rasmol," still available for Linux, 
that draws 3D proteins available from the "protein databank." I drew 
some peptide "electo-optic" properties on a ridiculous machine and 
suggested some nanophysics back in the day. A leader became the U of M 
supercomputer institute that got built where Otto Schmitt's lab was torn 
down, whom I helped when the bulldozer was at his door.

So I don't know what is going on. But I suspect we are well on our way 
to third world status and more wars every month. Understanding science 
and technology tools is the best survival resource we have. A country 
where nobody can feed, house, power themselves is unique in all history. 
You have a right to reach out, and I have a right to ignore your links, 
and you mine.

But thanks for a breath of life from the local Linux community.

Brian Wood wrote:
>
> Governor Dayton's recent remarks about Obamacare got
> me wondering if I could find an exemption to Obamacare
> taxes ($695!) for 2016.   And that will be going up next year.
>
> I started with this video:
> http://www.cchfreedom.org/about.php
>
> Then I found this:
> http://www.cchfreedom.org/files/files/Legal%20Alternatives%20to%20Obamacare.pdf
>
> (The Citizens' Council for Health Freedom is a St. Paul
> based organization and I'm thankful for their efforts.)
>
> Eventually I got to this page
> https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions-tool/#/results/2016/details/death-in-family
>
> I had no idea that there was this sort of exemption and
> so am letting others know that the death of a relative is
> a way out of the headache known as Obamacare.  But
> applying for this exemption is a headache in and of itself
> and I'm not as free as I would like to be.
>
> Also I would like to mention an idea that I had after hearing
> Governor Dayton's remarks on Obamacare.  I think it would
> be good if there was an income-based subsidy for immunizations
> that people could get.   For example, $75 a year toward
> immunizations.  Getting rid of MN Sure would probably
> more than pay for the program.  What do you think?
>
> -- 
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From kc0iog at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 14:39:20 2016
From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 14:39:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3QoP=BCQZh0gNg3zQmb=FHADM892OOJhhC+iquuvzp5VkSsQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Governor Dayton's recent remarks about Obamacare got
> me wondering if I could find an exemption to Obamacare
> taxes ($695!) for 2016.   And that will be going up next year.

$695, as I recall, was the cost of a Linux license from SCO during the
whole Darl McBride debacle.  So just think, someone (not you) is
getting an actual benefit (insurance) for the same price as a
worthless "Linux license".  In that perspective, it seems like a
bargain.

Speaking of Governor Dayton, what distro do you think he likes?  He
seems like more of a tinker-with-it-til-it-works kind of guy so I'm
thinking CentOS and Ubuntu aren't likely.  Arch or another less
polished Debian derivative would be my guess.  Then again he's been
around for awhile, state auditor and all.  Maybe he's an old school
Slackware user.

> Getting rid of MN Sure would probably
> more than pay for the program.  What do you think?

I think they should make health insurance more like Intel processors.
Choose your socket and core count and find the most bang for the buck.

Then again, health insurance and Intel procs have no relation
whatsoever.  And neither does your post that most certainly doesn't
belong on this list.

From PJ.world at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 20 15:33:36 2016
From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:33:36 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CAJt84+PKZ4hddBkywt_aJ3rzw8PvcXSScbufbGCVc4XvW4VZ2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJt84+PKZ4hddBkywt_aJ3rzw8PvcXSScbufbGCVc4XvW4VZ2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB10093F8CCF87377FBC39E4C399D50@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Just relax and let it happen.


________________________________
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org <tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org> on behalf of Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:53 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look like a piece of cake

I think that politics unrelated to technology, and religion in general are off topic for this mailing list.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com<mailto:woodbrian77 at gmail.com>> wrote:

Governor Dayton's recent remarks about Obamacare got
me wondering if I could find an exemption to Obamacare
taxes ($695!) for 2016.   And that will be going up next year.

I started with this video:
http://www.cchfreedom.org/about.php

Then I found this:
http://www.cchfreedom.org/files/files/Legal%20Alternatives%20to%20Obamacare.pdf

(The Citizens' Council for Health Freedom is a St. Paul
based organization and I'm thankful for their efforts.)

Eventually I got to this page
https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions-tool/#/results/2016/details/death-in-family

I had no idea that there was this sort of exemption and
so am letting others know that the death of a relative is
a way out of the headache known as Obamacare.  But
applying for this exemption is a headache in and of itself
and I'm not as free as I would like to be.

Also I would like to mention an idea that I had after hearing
Governor Dayton's remarks on Obamacare.  I think it would
be good if there was an income-based subsidy for immunizations
that people could get.   For example, $75 a year toward
immunizations.  Getting rid of MN Sure would probably
more than pay for the program.  What do you think?

--
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




--
Jeff Chapin
President, CedarLug, retired
President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
President, UNI Scuba Club
Senator, NISG, retired
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Oct 20 18:20:11 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:20:11 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
	like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CAB3QoP=BCQZh0gNg3zQmb=FHADM892OOJhhC+iquuvzp5VkSsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3QoP=BCQZh0gNg3zQmb=FHADM892OOJhhC+iquuvzp5VkSsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20161020232011.GA21547@nobelware.com>

A person of Dayton's leadership could only be a Slackware user... *fist bump*
Cheers Brian.

Rick, I do not know how you managed to do that brain-dump in your email but it
was impressive. As I was reading it I thought I was understanding it, and then
I realized that I finished all paragraphs being much more confused about both
the email and the thread! But I would like to know, was the MSI's _former_site_
at the dude's lab's location? The former site was across the river from where
I am now, and I really liked that building (requiring no external heating, not
even for the heated parking underneeth the computers). The present location of
the MSI is in Walter library, which was renovated about 10 years or so ago.

Did you do anything with those widgets and the software you wanted to build?


PS> I thought the list was idle for too long.


From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Oct 20 18:47:51 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:47:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <20161020232011.GA21547@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3QoP=BCQZh0gNg3zQmb=FHADM892OOJhhC+iquuvzp5VkSsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20161020232011.GA21547@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <580957A7.8090808@pinenet.com>



Iznogoud wrote:
> A person of Dayton's leadership could only be a Slackware user... *fist bump*
> Cheers Brian.
>
> Rick, I do not know how you managed to do that brain-dump in your email but it
> was impressive. As I was reading it I thought I was understanding it, and then
> I realized that I finished all paragraphs being much more confused about both
> the email and the thread! But I would like to know, was the MSI's _former_site_
> at the dude's lab's location? The former site was across the river from where
> I am now, and I really liked that building (requiring no external heating, not
> even for the heated parking underneeth the computers). The present location of
> the MSI is in Walter library, which was renovated about 10 years or so ago.
>
> Did you do anything with those widgets and the software you wanted to build?
>
>
> PS> I thought the list was idle for too long.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 19:20:48 2016
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 19:20:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1610201301580.21651@cockerel.yaron.org>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1610201301580.21651@cockerel.yaron.org>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf58fccFqeOdJfyG237_=BL54ZDj1zsoXDsZ0b0F2NWeuNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> We've asked you many, many times to please leave off-topic stuff off the
> list. Specifically we've asked you to leave religion and politics out of it.
> I now reiterate:
>
> PLEASE KEEP POSTS TO THE LIST ON-TOPIC. Politics and religion are NOT
> on-topic.
>
Clug

I can see where the post is related to politics but for the life of me I can't
see anything related to religion. Would you care to explain that part (at least
what you see as a problem)?

Regards

Dee

From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Oct 20 19:20:50 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 19:20:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <20161020232011.GA21547@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3QoP=BCQZh0gNg3zQmb=FHADM892OOJhhC+iquuvzp5VkSsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20161020232011.GA21547@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <58095F62.8060208@pinenet.com>

Woops, sorry for saying nothing in reply.

His lab was in "Temporary North Court Engineering." He had the whole 
building, an Army barracks, one of two. Packed to the ceiling. There 
were 2 rooms combined into a serious computer lab from earliest tubes to 
a (IIRC) a PDP-4. A front end loader was raised to his second story 
office window letting him know they meant business. I had moved a bunch 
of my stuff to lowertown, St. Paul, to push the fiber optics. 3,500 
sq.ft. last used as a speakeasy during prohibition I think. My friend, a 
VietNam Vet, opened the St. Paul Union Depot each morning chasing hobos 
out with a gun. A lot of Otto's lab went to the Bakken Museum. Some went 
to St. Paul. Some, who knows? He had cases of Civil War pictures, never 
developed, from an amputee who liked Otto's electric pain relief. 
Medtronic, Honeywell, etc. had roots there. Refrigeration galore. Like I 
said, 2 floors packed with science history.

But Otto didn't know modern biophysical chemistry. Really, nobody did. 
Today I run into researchers without knowing it, like my son-in-law's 
brother and professor father. But I think the game changer will be 
fiberglass roofing that delivers roof insolation out a glass wire cable 
and cools a billion houses in India while making solar fuel (U 
researchers also interested). That's why I think this Jens Thoms Torring 
(Of XForms) is interesting; he's a chemical spectroscopy physicist in 
Germany, and computers are a tool, not a best friend.

But you seem totally right about the OpenGL stuff. Just don't think old 
guys can learn it.

Iznogoud wrote:
> A person of Dayton's leadership could only be a Slackware user... *fist bump*
> Cheers Brian.
>
> Rick, I do not know how you managed to do that brain-dump in your email but it
> was impressive. As I was reading it I thought I was understanding it, and then
> I realized that I finished all paragraphs being much more confused about both
> the email and the thread! But I would like to know, was the MSI's _former_site_
> at the dude's lab's location? The former site was across the river from where
> I am now, and I really liked that building (requiring no external heating, not
> even for the heated parking underneeth the computers). The present location of
> the MSI is in Walter library, which was renovated about 10 years or so ago.
>
> Did you do anything with those widgets and the software you wanted to build?
>
>
> PS> I thought the list was idle for too long.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From tlunde at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 19:41:20 2016
From: tlunde at gmail.com (T L)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 19:41:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf58fccFqeOdJfyG237_=BL54ZDj1zsoXDsZ0b0F2NWeuNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1610201301580.21651@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAPpdf58fccFqeOdJfyG237_=BL54ZDj1zsoXDsZ0b0F2NWeuNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE0VmCxb9R7Gh=s+3tH8YE8+k1tQyDnV=iFSM4D9doF9-nZq0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dee - If you search the archives for Brian's name or his organization's
name, you're very likely to understand why Clug included that (off) topic.

Thomas

On Thursday, October 20, 2016, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > Brian,
> >
> > We've asked you many, many times to please leave off-topic stuff off the
> > list. Specifically we've asked you to leave religion and politics out of
> it.
> > I now reiterate:
> >
> > PLEASE KEEP POSTS TO THE LIST ON-TOPIC. Politics and religion are NOT
> > on-topic.
> >
> Clug
>
> I can see where the post is related to politics but for the life of me I
> can't
> see anything related to religion. Would you care to explain that part (at
> least
> what you see as a problem)?
>
> Regards
>
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <javascript:;>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Oct 20 20:18:20 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:18:20 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
	like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <58095F62.8060208@pinenet.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3QoP=BCQZh0gNg3zQmb=FHADM892OOJhhC+iquuvzp5VkSsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20161020232011.GA21547@nobelware.com> <58095F62.8060208@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20161021011820.GA26269@nobelware.com>

Rick,
You have to write this stuff down. These are stories, setups, and local history
that, at the very least, we should come across once while living here.

I go by the Bakken museum all the time and I always say "On my list" and it
has been years and I have not gone. Bumped up the priority just from what you
said.


OpenGL has been evolving. We are now around version (of the standard) 4. But
all the older stuff is compatible. I wanted widgets for my VR software...
Otherwise, there are lots of widgets out threre and I do like Motif. Anyway,
you can learn it, much like anything a geek puts their mind to.


From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Oct 20 23:18:24 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:18:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <20161021011820.GA26269@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3QoP=BCQZh0gNg3zQmb=FHADM892OOJhhC+iquuvzp5VkSsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20161020232011.GA21547@nobelware.com> <58095F62.8060208@pinenet.com>
 <20161021011820.GA26269@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <58099710.3050507@pinenet.com>

My daughter was married at the James. J. Hill Reference Library, 
downtown St. Paul. She thought the St. Paul location relevant. I later 
told her I was an armed guard at the NWBell Telephone building next door 
(now Century Link) in about 1973. There were 7 floors of relay switches 
in the hollow core building that gave sparks at night. They told me it 
was a terrorist target, but what was a terrorist in 1973?? I read the 
book, "War and Peace" there.

I was just one of millions with a story to tell. But that corner of St. 
Paul is where Mississippi River traffic flowed, later railroad traffic 
flowed, later information traffic flowed. I later worked in the 
Emergency Room at St. Paul Ramsey Hospital (now Regions Hospital) where 
stupidity and blood flowed, but that's a different story. Working nights 
in college definitely keeps a guy sober.

Anyway, XForms was the parent toolkit for XFCE window manager. XFCE 
later switched to GTK, but some GTK users are now angry with big changes 
and are turning to QT.The stability and simplicity of XForms is rare. 
I'm just grateful it exists and want to make others aware of it.

Iznogoud wrote:
> Rick,
> You have to write this stuff down. These are stories, setups, and local history
> that, at the very least, we should come across once while living here.
>
> I go by the Bakken museum all the time and I always say "On my list" and it
> has been years and I have not gone. Bumped up the priority just from what you
> said.
>
>
> OpenGL has been evolving. We are now around version (of the standard) 4. But
> all the older stuff is compatible. I wanted widgets for my VR software...
> Otherwise, there are lots of widgets out threre and I do like Motif. Anyway,
> you can learn it, much like anything a geek puts their mind to.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From chapinjeff at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 09:00:04 2016
From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 09:00:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf58fccFqeOdJfyG237_=BL54ZDj1zsoXDsZ0b0F2NWeuNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1610201301580.21651@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAPpdf58fccFqeOdJfyG237_=BL54ZDj1zsoXDsZ0b0F2NWeuNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJt84+NRmXifwUFwL+t6sgEy0w8Ryg2KysNwx9imtFFGE0kqHg@mail.gmail.com>

Brian Wood has a history of political and religious trolling, and has been
repeatedly asked on this list (and other lists) to stop.

He listens for a few months, and then starts it up again.

Jeff

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 7:20 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
> > Brian,
> >
> > We've asked you many, many times to please leave off-topic stuff off the
> > list. Specifically we've asked you to leave religion and politics out of
> it.
> > I now reiterate:
> >
> > PLEASE KEEP POSTS TO THE LIST ON-TOPIC. Politics and religion are NOT
> > on-topic.
> >
> Clug
>
> I can see where the post is related to politics but for the life of me I
> can't
> see anything related to religion. Would you care to explain that part (at
> least
> what you see as a problem)?
>
> Regards
>
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>



-- 
Jeff Chapin
President, CedarLug, retired
President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
President, UNI Scuba Club
Senator, NISG, retired
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From PJ.world at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 21 15:27:35 2016
From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 20:27:35 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <CAJt84+NRmXifwUFwL+t6sgEy0w8Ryg2KysNwx9imtFFGE0kqHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1610201301580.21651@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAPpdf58fccFqeOdJfyG237_=BL54ZDj1zsoXDsZ0b0F2NWeuNg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJt84+NRmXifwUFwL+t6sgEy0w8Ryg2KysNwx9imtFFGE0kqHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB1009DB98A7972370D8B30BD099D40@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

I don't have time for this Jibber/Jabber right now.


Peace be with you.


________________________________
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org <tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org> on behalf of Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 9:00 AM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look like a piece of cake

Brian Wood has a history of political and religious trolling, and has been repeatedly asked on this list (and other lists) to stop.

He listens for a few months, and then starts it up again.

Jeff

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 7:20 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com<mailto:o1bigtenor at gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com<mailto:tclug at freakzilla.com>> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> We've asked you many, many times to please leave off-topic stuff off the
> list. Specifically we've asked you to leave religion and politics out of it.
> I now reiterate:
>
> PLEASE KEEP POSTS TO THE LIST ON-TOPIC. Politics and religion are NOT
> on-topic.
>
Clug

I can see where the post is related to politics but for the life of me I can't
see anything related to religion. Would you care to explain that part (at least
what you see as a problem)?

Regards

Dee
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



--
Jeff Chapin
President, CedarLug, retired
President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
President, UNI Scuba Club
Senator, NISG, retired
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 21 15:31:57 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 15:31:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility
Message-ID: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>

Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
 
Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe  (senior living)  in Savage have tech
support from MN Services for the Blind for Dragon (and related) screen
reading software which needs internet to function properly.    Cherrywood is
an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living" residents
who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high).  Wifi is
included in rent.  The wifi connection is erratic, and at such low speed
that the software doesn't work.  I'm trying to help identify the problems so
thet can be fixed.   "Bandaids" used before have not worked. 
 
 What is a typical building setup?  My info is only approximate now.
Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.
Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire
distribution.  There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds
that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute wifi in
the facility .
 
All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to
know anything private, and do not seek any actual admin access.
 
What is  a likely building router make and model?
What is  a likely wifi access point make and model?
 
Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and
guests?
The connection speed of the 802.11g/n  links is usually only 11MHz, and
only once in a while 54MHz.
The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,  and  occasionally 3
mb/sec  or so.
 
Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.   I've
never experienced such bad connections as these.  What does a typical
hotspot like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
 
 
Please assist as you can.
 
Chuck Cole
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Oct 21 15:45:49 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 15:45:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look
 like a piece of cake
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR13MB1009DB98A7972370D8B30BD099D40@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CABWFOjsUpSgo3KjZ4khXG_BjUZOQbf6AbKNyK9saK=0zY9++yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1610201301580.21651@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CAPpdf58fccFqeOdJfyG237_=BL54ZDj1zsoXDsZ0b0F2NWeuNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+NRmXifwUFwL+t6sgEy0w8Ryg2KysNwx9imtFFGE0kqHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB1009DB98A7972370D8B30BD099D40@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A0DAABEB-1B8A-40D5-A9B2-ECC40E491AB4@cwis.biz>

You are not the person they are presently speaking of. Please do not waste OUR time by replying unneccessarily to the thread.

And for those who have to read this, I apologize for wasting your time..


> On Oct 21, 2016, at 3:27 PM, paul g <pj.world at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't have time for this Jibber/Jabber right now.
> 
> Peace be with you.
> 
> 
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org <tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org> on behalf of Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 9:00 AM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Government makes Century Link and Comcast look like a piece of cake
>  
> Brian Wood has a history of political and religious trolling, and has been repeatedly asked on this list (and other lists) to stop.
> 
> He listens for a few months, and then starts it up again.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 7:20 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com <mailto:o1bigtenor at gmail.com>> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com <mailto:tclug at freakzilla.com>> wrote:
> > Brian,
> >
> > We've asked you many, many times to please leave off-topic stuff off the
> > list. Specifically we've asked you to leave religion and politics out of it.
> > I now reiterate:
> >
> > PLEASE KEEP POSTS TO THE LIST ON-TOPIC. Politics and religion are NOT
> > on-topic.
> >
> Clug
> 
> I can see where the post is related to politics but for the life of me I can't
> see anything related to religion. Would you care to explain that part (at least
> what you see as a problem)?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Chapin
> President, CedarLug, retired
> President, UNIPC, "I'll get around to it"
> President, UNI Scuba Club
> Senator, NISG, retired
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 15:57:44 2016
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 20:57:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
 facility
In-Reply-To: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
Message-ID: <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>

Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the signal strength?? I've seen facilities like these that have cinderblock walls separating each apartment.? Cinder block is not friendly to wi-fi.? USI has the same problem in Minneapolis with their community wifi.? It doesn't go through stucco real well.? 1-2 bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi connection in my experience.? 

There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi signal strengths.? WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with me.?--- 
Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


      From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
 Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
 Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility
   
 Need wifi setup or management parameter help..?Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe??(senior living) ?in Savage have tech support from MN Services for the Blind for?Dragon (and related) screen reading software which needs internet to function properly.????Cherrywood is an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living"?residents who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high). ?Wifi is included in rent.? The wifi connection?is erratic, and at such low speed that the software doesn't work.? I'm trying to help identify the problems?so thet can be fixed.?? "Bandaids" used before have not worked.???What is a typical?building setup?? My info is only approximate now.? Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.? Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire distribution.? There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute?wifi in the facility?.?All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to know anything private, and do not seek any?actual admin access.?What is??a likely building router make and model?What is??a likely wifi access point make and model??Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and guests?The connection speed of the 802.11g/n? links is usually only 11MHz, and??only?once in a while?54MHz.The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,??and ?occasionally 3?mb/sec? or so.?Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.?? I've never experienced such bad connections as these.? What does a typical hotspot?like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer???Please assist as you can.?Chuck Cole
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


   
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Fri Oct 21 16:33:48 2016
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:33:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
 facility
In-Reply-To: <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1477085628.3073.13.camel@pureice.com>

I think I'd first determine if the problem is with the wired speed of
the Internet connection.
I'd try to determine speed of wired connections at the demarc point and
at the access points and every segment in between that has a switch or
router segmenting it.
I'd check to see what the wireless is using for radio protocol and
frequencies:
	802.11n with 802.11a compatibility
	802.11n with 802.11b/g compatibility
	802.11n only, 2.4GHz
	802.11n only, 5GHz
	other?
I'd scan the wireless channels looking for interference.
I'd check to see if they have configured their LAN subnet appropriately
- avoiding typical problematic subnets (problematic because a lot of
devices default to these subnets)
	192.168.1.0/24
	192.168.10.0/24
	...
I'd also perform a wireshark scan if I made it this far and didn't find anything yet. I'd want to analyze the traffic to see if there are some high traffic or nefarious issues.

On Fri, 2016-10-21 at 20:57 +0000, Wayne Johnson wrote:
> Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the
> signal strength?? I've seen facilities like these that have
> cinderblock walls separating each apartment.? Cinder block is not
> friendly to wi-fi.? USI has the same problem in Minneapolis with
> their community wifi.? It doesn't go through stucco real well.? 1-2
> bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi connection in my
> experience.??
> 
> There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi
> signal strengths.? WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with
> me.
> ?
> ---?
> Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done,"?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? | and those to whom God says, "All right,?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
> 
> 
> From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
> To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>?
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
> Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
> facility
> 
> Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
> ?
> Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe??(senior living) ?in Savage have
> tech support from MN Services for the Blind for?Dragon (and related)
> screen reading software which needs internet to function
> properly.????Cherrywood is an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70
> "independent living"?residents who are cabalbe and typically affluent
> (rent is quite high). ?Wifi is included in rent.? The wifi
> connection?is erratic, and at such low speed that the software
> doesn't work.? I'm trying to help identify the problems?so thet can
> be fixed.?? "Bandaids" used before have not worked.?
> ?
> ?What is a typical?building setup?? My info is only approximate now.?
> Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.?
> Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts
> to wire distribution.? There is a "building router" that has multiple
> "CAT5" feeds that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that
> distribute?wifi in the facility?.
> ?
> All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not
> need to know anything private, and do not seek any?actual admin
> access.
> ?
> What is??a likely building router make and model?
> What is??a likely wifi access point make and model?
> ?
> Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents
> and guests?
> The connection speed of the 802.11g/n? links is usually only 11MHz,
> and??only?once in a while?54MHz.
> The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,??and
> ?occasionally 3?mb/sec? or so.
> ?
> Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.??
> I've never experienced such bad connections as these.? What does a
> typical hotspot?like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
> ?
> ?
> Please assist as you can.
> ?
> Chuck Cole
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Fri Oct 21 16:47:58 2016
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:47:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
 facility
In-Reply-To: <1477085628.3073.13.camel@pureice.com>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1477085628.3073.13.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <1477086478.3073.19.camel@pureice.com>

If they have multiple subnets I'd also want to know if they have QoS
configured and what bandwidth limits they have configured for which
traffic patterns.
I'd also check for NAT translation issues on the LAN.
It's hard to envision what quality of network configuration they have
setup based on the original description but somebody should be able to
provide you with a network diagram unless it was just cobbled together.
On Fri, 2016-10-21 at 16:33 -0500, r hayman wrote:
> I think I'd first determine if the problem is with the wired speed of
> the Internet connection.
> 
> I'd try to determine speed of wired connections at the demarc point
> and at the access points and every segment in between that has a
> switch or router segmenting it.
> 
> I'd check to see what the wireless is using for radio protocol and
> frequencies:
> 	802.11n with 802.11a compatibility
> 	802.11n with 802.11b/g compatibility
> 	802.11n only, 2.4GHz
> 	802.11n only, 5GHz
> 	other?
> 
> I'd scan the wireless channels looking for interference.
> 
> I'd check to see if they have configured their LAN subnet
> appropriately - avoiding typical problematic subnets (problematic
> because a lot of devices default to these subnets)
> 	192.168.1.0/24
> 	192.168.10.0/24
> 	...
> 
> I'd also perform a wireshark scan if I made it this far and didn't
> find anything yet. I'd want to analyze the traffic to see if there
> are some high traffic or nefarious issues.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2016-10-21 at 20:57 +0000, Wayne Johnson wrote:
> > Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the
> > signal strength?? I've seen facilities like these that have
> > cinderblock walls separating each apartment.? Cinder block is not
> > friendly to wi-fi.? USI has the same problem in Minneapolis with
> > their community wifi.? It doesn't go through stucco real well.? 1-2 
> > bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi connection in my
> > experience.??
> > 
> > There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi 
> > signal strengths.? WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with
> > me.
> > ?
> > ---?
> > Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those?
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done,"?
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? | and those to whom God says, "All
> > right,?
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
> > 
> > 
> > From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
> > To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>?
> > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
> > Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
> > facility
> > 
> > Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
> > ?
> > Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe??(senior living) ?in Savage
> > have tech support from MN Services for the Blind??for?Dragon (and
> > related) screen reading software which needs internet to function
> > properly.????Cherrywood is an Ebenezer managed facility with about
> > 70 "independent living"?residents who are cabalbe and typically
> > affluent (rent is quite high). ?Wifi is included in rent.? The wifi
> > connection?is erratic, and at such low speed that the software
> > doesn't work.? I'm trying to help identify the problems?so thet can
> > be fixed.?? "Bandaids" used before have not worked.?
> > ?
> > ?What is a typical?building setup?? My info is only approximate
> > now.? Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment
> > room.? Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room"
> > converts to wire distribution.? There is a "building router" that
> > has multiple "CAT5" feeds that support offices and 3 pairs of
> > access points that distribute?wifi in the facility?.
> > ?
> > All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not
> > need to know anything private, and do not seek any?actual admin
> > access.
> > ?
> > What is??a likely building router make and model?
> > What is??a likely wifi access point make and model?
> > ?
> > Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting
> > residents and guests?
> > The connection speed of the 802.11g/n? links is usually only 11MHz,
> > and??only?once in a while?54MHz.
> > The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,??and
> > ?occasionally 3?mb/sec? or so.
> > ?
> > Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.??
> > I've never experienced such bad connections as these.? What does a
> > typical hotspot?like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
> > ?
> > ?
> > Please assist as you can.
> > ?
> > Chuck Cole
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 21 17:08:18 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:08:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
	facility
In-Reply-To: <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7AFA456C858942D98B3C297C3E50C4DE@D830B>

Thanks Wayne!
 
Signal strength isn't bad.  They have 3 access points that seem to be
distributed around the large building for each of the 3 wifi SSIDs.  At
least one of the 3 for each SSID is usually plenty good.  I have good wifi
utilities in both Android and PC, but I haven't written down the actual
signal strength numbers.
 
Chuck


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:58 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
facility


Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the signal
strength?  I've seen facilities like these that have cinderblock walls
separating each apartment.  Cinder block is not friendly to wi-fi.  USI has
the same problem in Minneapolis with their community wifi.  It doesn't go
through stucco real well.  1-2 bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi
connection in my experience.  


There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi signal
strengths.  WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with me.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
                           | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
                           | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
                           | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




  _____  

From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility


Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
 
Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe  (senior living)  in Savage have tech
support from MN Services for the Blind for Dragon (and related) screen
reading software which needs internet to function properly.    Cherrywood is
an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living" residents
who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high).  Wifi is
included in rent.  The wifi connection is erratic, and at such low speed
that the software doesn't work.  I'm trying to help identify the problems so
thet can be fixed.   "Bandaids" used before have not worked. 
 
 What is a typical building setup?  My info is only approximate now.
Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.
Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire
distribution.  There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds
that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute wifi in
the facility .
 
All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to
know anything private, and do not seek any actual admin access.
 
What is  a likely building router make and model?
What is  a likely wifi access point make and model?
 
Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and
guests?
The connection speed of the 802.11g/n  links is usually only 11MHz, and
only once in a while 54MHz.
The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,  and  occasionally 3
mb/sec  or so.
 
Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.   I've
never experienced such bad connections as these.  What does a typical
hotspot like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
 
 
Please assist as you can.
 
Chuck Cole


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 17:19:12 2016
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 22:19:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
 facility
In-Reply-To: <7AFA456C858942D98B3C297C3E50C4DE@D830B>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
 <7AFA456C858942D98B3C297C3E50C4DE@D830B>
Message-ID: <186624958.692282.1477088352828@mail.yahoo.com>

Another tool you can use is traceroute (or tracert on Windows).? Works like ping but walks through the route and gives response times at each step.? Example:
C:\Users\C9915437\Dev\trunk\yukon-server>tracert 10.106.43.16

Tracing route to 10.106.43.16 over a maximum of 30 hops

? 1??? <1 ms???? 6 ms???? 9 ms? 10.106.38.2
? 2??? <1 ms??? <1 ms??? <1 ms? 10.106.39.101
? 3??? <1 ms??? <1 ms??? <1 ms? 10.106.43.16
Here I pinged a device in out test network (different subnet).? It showed we went to my local gateway, to the test network gateway, and then to the end device.? You might try this with yahoo.com to see what is happening on the way to the internet.
?--- 
Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


      From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
 To: 'Wayne Johnson' <wdtj at yahoo.com>; 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
 Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:08 PM
 Subject: RE: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility
   
Thanks Wayne!?Signal strength isn't bad.? They have 3 access points that seem to be distributed around the large building for?each of the 3 wifi SSIDs.? At least one of the 3 for each SSID is usually plenty good.? I have good wifi utilities in both Android and PC, but I haven't written down the actual signal strength numbers.?Chuck

   From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:58 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility

   Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the signal strength?? I've seen facilities like these that have cinderblock walls separating each apartment.? Cinder block is not friendly to wi-fi.? USI has the same problem in Minneapolis with their community wifi.? It doesn't go through stucco real well.? 1-2 bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi connection in my experience.? 
 
 There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi signal strengths.? WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with me. ? --- 
Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
 

      From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility
 
   Need wifi setup or management parameter help.. ? Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe??(senior living) ?in Savage have tech support from MN Services for the Blind for?Dragon (and related) screen reading software which needs internet to function properly.????Cherrywood is an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living"?residents who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high). ?Wifi is included in rent.? The wifi connection?is erratic, and at such low speed that the software doesn't work.? I'm trying to help identify the problems?so thet can be fixed.?? "Bandaids" used before have not worked.? ? ?What is a typical?building setup?? My info is only approximate now.? Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.? Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire distribution.? There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute?wifi in the facility?. ? All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to know anything private, and do not seek any?actual admin access. ? What is??a likely building router make and model? What is??a likely wifi access point make and model? ? Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and guests? The connection speed of the 802.11g/n? links is usually only 11MHz, and??only?once in a while?54MHz. The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,??and ?occasionally 3?mb/sec? or so. ? Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.?? I've never experienced such bad connections as these.? What does a typical hotspot?like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer? ? ? Please assist as you can. ? Chuck Cole 
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list





   
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 21 17:21:15 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:21:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
	facility
In-Reply-To: <1477085628.3073.13.camel@pureice.com>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1477085628.3073.13.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <2BCC3559C745453C8E59BCBE0A8BD177@D830B>

The fiber optic service from Centurylink to the building is plenty good
enough.  I think they told me it was over 900gb delivered to the building's
router.
If I had access to the equipment to check the things you mentioned, I
wouldn't be asking questions here: I would know what the products are, and
what their configuration options and likely or actual settings are.
 
I'm only looking for what I asked for, and hoping someone here is familiar
enough with this sort of equipment and "apartment building" installation to
make some educated guesses.
 
The building manager is not technical and is a bit paranoid, and has not
seriously addressed the problem since April or before.  She gives monthly
reports at resident meetings: "we're looking into it.."       I think they
have some dumb or outdated "management settings" or allocation parameters in
otherwise good-enough equipment.
 
 
Chuck


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of r hayman
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 4:34 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
facility


I think I'd first determine if the problem is with the wired speed of the
Internet connection.

I'd try to determine speed of wired connections at the demarc point and at
the access points and every segment in between that has a switch or router
segmenting it.

I'd check to see what the wireless is using for radio protocol and
frequencies:
802.11n with 802.11a compatibility
802.11n with 802.11b/g compatibility
802.11n only, 2.4GHz
802.11n only, 5GHz
other?

I'd scan the wireless channels looking for interference.

I'd check to see if they have configured their LAN subnet appropriately -
avoiding typical problematic subnets (problematic because a lot of devices
default to these subnets)
192.168.1.0/24
192.168.10.0/24
...

I'd also perform a wireshark scan if I made it this far and didn't find
anything yet. I'd want to analyze the traffic to see if there are some high
traffic or nefarious issues.



On Fri, 2016-10-21 at 20:57 +0000, Wayne Johnson wrote:

Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the signal
strength?  I've seen facilities like these that have cinderblock walls
separating each apartment.  Cinder block is not friendly to wi-fi.  USI has
the same problem in Minneapolis with their community wifi.  It doesn't go
through stucco real well.  1-2 bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi
connection in my experience.  


There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi signal
strengths.  WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with me.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
                           | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
                           | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
                           | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




  _____  

From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility


Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
 
Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe  (senior living)  in Savage have tech
support from MN Services for the Blind for Dragon (and related) screen
reading software which needs internet to function properly.    Cherrywood is
an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living" residents
who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high).  Wifi is
included in rent.  The wifi connection is erratic, and at such low speed
that the software doesn't work.  I'm trying to help identify the problems so
thet can be fixed.   "Bandaids" used before have not worked. 
 
 What is a typical building setup?  My info is only approximate now.
Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.
Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire
distribution.  There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds
that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute wifi in
the facility .
 
All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to
know anything private, and do not seek any actual admin access.
 
What is  a likely building router make and model?
What is  a likely wifi access point make and model?
 
Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and
guests?
The connection speed of the 802.11g/n  links is usually only 11MHz, and
only once in a while 54MHz.
The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,  and  occasionally 3
mb/sec  or so.
 
Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.   I've
never experienced such bad connections as these.  What does a typical
hotspot like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
 
 
Please assist as you can.
 
Chuck Cole


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 21 17:28:18 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:28:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
	facility
In-Reply-To: <186624958.692282.1477088352828@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
 <7AFA456C858942D98B3C297C3E50C4DE@D830B>
 <186624958.692282.1477088352828@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9CA42D02A3414D26B983D7147A37CD1E@D830B>

Good suggestion!  Traceroute or one of its relatives sometimes identifies
equipment also.
 

  _____  

From: Wayne Johnson [mailto:wdtj at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:19 PM
To: Chuck Cole; 'TCLUG Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
facility


Another tool you can use is traceroute (or tracert on Windows).  Works like
ping but walks through the route and gives response times at each step.
Example:

C:\Users\C9915437\Dev\trunk\yukon-server>tracert 10.106.43.16

Tracing route to 10.106.43.16 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms     6 ms     9 ms  10.106.38.2
  2    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  10.106.39.101
  3    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  10.106.43.16

Here I pinged a device in out test network (different subnet).  It showed we
went to my local gateway, to the test network gateway, and then to the end
device.  You might try this with yahoo.com to see what is happening on the
way to the internet.


 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
                           | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
                           | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
                           | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




  _____  

From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'Wayne Johnson' <wdtj at yahoo.com>; 'TCLUG Mailing List'
<tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
facility


Thanks Wayne!
 
Signal strength isn't bad.  They have 3 access points that seem to be
distributed around the large building for each of the 3 wifi SSIDs.  At
least one of the 3 for each SSID is usually plenty good.  I have good wifi
utilities in both Android and PC, but I haven't written down the actual
signal strength numbers.
 
Chuck


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:58 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
facility


Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the signal
strength?  I've seen facilities like these that have cinderblock walls
separating each apartment.  Cinder block is not friendly to wi-fi.  USI has
the same problem in Minneapolis with their community wifi.  It doesn't go
through stucco real well.  1-2 bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi
connection in my experience.  


There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi signal
strengths.  WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with me.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
                           | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
                           | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
                           | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




  _____  

From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility


Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
 
Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe  (senior living)  in Savage have tech
support from MN Services for the Blind for Dragon (and related) screen
reading software which needs internet to function properly.    Cherrywood is
an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living" residents
who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high).  Wifi is
included in rent.  The wifi connection is erratic, and at such low speed
that the software doesn't work.  I'm trying to help identify the problems so
thet can be fixed.   "Bandaids" used before have not worked. 
 
 What is a typical building setup?  My info is only approximate now.
Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.
Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire
distribution.  There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds
that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute wifi in
the facility .
 
All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to
know anything private, and do not seek any actual admin access.
 
What is  a likely building router make and model?
What is  a likely wifi access point make and model?
 
Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and
guests?
The connection speed of the 802.11g/n  links is usually only 11MHz, and
only once in a while 54MHz.
The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,  and  occasionally 3
mb/sec  or so.
 
Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.   I've
never experienced such bad connections as these.  What does a typical
hotspot like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
 
 
Please assist as you can.
 
Chuck Cole


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list






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From wdtj at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 17:30:41 2016
From: wdtj at yahoo.com (Wayne Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 22:30:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a
	large	facility
In-Reply-To: <2BCC3559C745453C8E59BCBE0A8BD177@D830B>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1477085628.3073.13.camel@pureice.com>
 <2BCC3559C745453C8E59BCBE0A8BD177@D830B>
Message-ID: <1478450642.669087.1477089041434@mail.yahoo.com>

But the symptoms (at least in my somewhat limited experience) doesn't sound like a configuration issue, those would result in a pretty consistent failure.? Yours sounds more sporadic which would lead me to believe it's hardware related.
There are far too many different makes and models of network equipment to guess at.
?--- 
Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis


   

   From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
 To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
 Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility
  
The fiber optic service from Centurylink to the building is plenty good enough.? I think they told me it was over 900gb delivered to the building's router.If I had access to the equipment to check the things you mentioned, I wouldn't be asking questions here: I would know what the products are, and what their configuration options and likely or actual settings are.?I'm only looking for what I asked for, and hoping someone here is familiar enough with this sort of equipment and "apartment building" installation to make some educated guesses.?The building manager is not technical and is a bit paranoid, and?has not seriously addressed the problem since April or before.? She?gives monthly reports at resident meetings: "we're looking into it.."?????? I think they have some dumb or outdated "management settings" or allocation parameters in otherwise good-enough equipment.??Chuck

   From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of r hayman
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 4:34 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility

  I think I'd first determine if the problem is with the wired speed of the Internet connection. 
 I'd try to determine speed of wired connections at the demarc point and at the access points and every segment in between that has a switch or router segmenting it. 
 I'd check to see what the wireless is using for radio protocol and frequencies: 802.11n with 802.11a compatibility 802.11n with 802.11b/g compatibility 802.11n only, 2.4GHz 802.11n only, 5GHz other? 
 I'd scan the wireless channels looking for interference. 
 I'd check to see if they have configured their LAN subnet appropriately - avoiding typical problematic subnets (problematic because a lot of devices default to these subnets) 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.10.0/24  ... 
 I'd also perform a wireshark scan if I made it this far and didn't find anything yet. I'd want to analyze the traffic to see if there are some high traffic or nefarious issues. 
 
 
 On Fri, 2016-10-21 at 20:57 +0000, Wayne Johnson wrote: 
  Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the signal strength?? I've seen facilities like these that have cinderblock walls separating each apartment.? Cinder block is not friendly to wi-fi.? USI has the same problem in Minneapolis with their community wifi.? It doesn't go through stucco real well.? 1-2 bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi connection in my experience.? 
 
 There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi signal strengths.? WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with me. ? --- 
Wayne Johnson,???????????? | There are two kinds of people: Those 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???????? | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ??????????? | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis
 

      From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility
 
   Need wifi setup or management parameter help.. ? Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe??(senior living) ?in Savage have tech support from MN Services for the Blind for?Dragon (and related) screen reading software which needs internet to function properly.????Cherrywood is an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living"?residents who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high). ?Wifi is included in rent.? The wifi connection?is erratic, and at such low speed that the software doesn't work.? I'm trying to help identify the problems?so thet can be fixed.?? "Bandaids" used before have not worked.? ? ?What is a typical?building setup?? My info is only approximate now.? Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.? Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire distribution.? There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute?wifi in the facility?. ? All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to know anything private, and do not seek any?actual admin access. ? What is??a likely building router make and model? What is??a likely wifi access point make and model? ? Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and guests? The connection speed of the 802.11g/n? links is usually only 11MHz, and??only?once in a while?54MHz. The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,??and ?occasionally 3?mb/sec? or so. ? Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.?? I've never experienced such bad connections as these.? What does a typical hotspot?like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer? ? ? Please assist as you can. ? Chuck Cole 
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


   
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Oct 21 18:06:18 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 18:06:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for alarge	facility
In-Reply-To: <1478450642.669087.1477089041434@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
 <470148017.658827.1477083464547@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1477085628.3073.13.camel@pureice.com>
 <2BCC3559C745453C8E59BCBE0A8BD177@D830B>
 <1478450642.669087.1477089041434@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <58D7699FDE2F4D9BB30B30CEF22BBDC4@D830B>

 


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:31 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for alarge
facility


But the symptoms (at least in my somewhat limited experience) doesn't sound
like a configuration issue, those would result in a pretty consistent
failure.  Yours sounds more sporadic which would lead me to believe it's
hardware related. 
 
I understand, but disagree.   Signal strength is consistently too low.
Speed is always bad.  Management has mentioned having some excessive users,
and implied that they employ some allocation management.  Management is
neither savvy enough nor professional enough to get and present real info.
Perhaps this "management staff" is treating all residents as if they are
like the minority who have dementia, etc.  I think that is mainly a
management malady  :-)   
 
 

There are far too many different makes and models of network equipment to
guess at.


 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
                           | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
                           | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
                           | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis






  _____  

From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
facility


The fiber optic service from Centurylink to the building is plenty good
enough.  I think they told me it was over 900gb delivered to the building's
router.
If I had access to the equipment to check the things you mentioned, I
wouldn't be asking questions here: I would know what the products are, and
what their configuration options and likely or actual settings are.
 
I'm only looking for what I asked for, and hoping someone here is familiar
enough with this sort of equipment and "apartment building" installation to
make some educated guesses.
 
The building manager is not technical and is a bit paranoid, and has not
seriously addressed the problem since April or before.  She gives monthly
reports at resident meetings: "we're looking into it.."       I think they
have some dumb or outdated "management settings" or allocation parameters in
otherwise good-enough equipment.
 
 
Chuck


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
[mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of r hayman
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 4:34 PM
To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
facility


I think I'd first determine if the problem is with the wired speed of the
Internet connection.

I'd try to determine speed of wired connections at the demarc point and at
the access points and every segment in between that has a switch or router
segmenting it.

I'd check to see what the wireless is using for radio protocol and
frequencies:
802.11n with 802.11a compatibility
802.11n with 802.11b/g compatibility
802.11n only, 2.4GHz
802.11n only, 5GHz
other?

I'd scan the wireless channels looking for interference.

I'd check to see if they have configured their LAN subnet appropriately -
avoiding typical problematic subnets (problematic because a lot of devices
default to these subnets)
192.168.1.0/24
192.168.10.0/24
...

I'd also perform a wireshark scan if I made it this far and didn't find
anything yet. I'd want to analyze the traffic to see if there are some high
traffic or nefarious issues.



On Fri, 2016-10-21 at 20:57 +0000, Wayne Johnson wrote:

Not an expert here, but first question I would ask is what is the signal
strength?  I've seen facilities like these that have cinderblock walls
separating each apartment.  Cinder block is not friendly to wi-fi.  USI has
the same problem in Minneapolis with their community wifi.  It doesn't go
through stucco real well.  1-2 bars is not adequate for a decent wi-fi
connection in my experience.  


There are some nice tools for Android that can scan and graph wi-fi signal
strengths.  WifiAnalizer from VREM Software works well with me.
 
--- 
Wayne Johnson,             | There are two kinds of people: Those 
                           | who say to God, "Thy will be done," 
                           | and those to whom God says, "All right, 
                           | then, have it your way." --C.S. Lewis




  _____  

From: Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
To: 'TCLUG Mailing List' <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large facility


Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
 
Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe  (senior living)  in Savage have tech
support from MN Services for the Blind for Dragon (and related) screen
reading software which needs internet to function properly.    Cherrywood is
an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living" residents
who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high).  Wifi is
included in rent.  The wifi connection is erratic, and at such low speed
that the software doesn't work.  I'm trying to help identify the problems so
thet can be fixed.   "Bandaids" used before have not worked. 
 
 What is a typical building setup?  My info is only approximate now.
Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.
Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire
distribution.  There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds
that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute wifi in
the facility .
 
All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to
know anything private, and do not seek any actual admin access.
 
What is  a likely building router make and model?
What is  a likely wifi access point make and model?
 
Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and
guests?
The connection speed of the 802.11g/n  links is usually only 11MHz, and
only once in a while 54MHz.
The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,  and  occasionally 3
mb/sec  or so.
 
Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.   I've
never experienced such bad connections as these.  What does a typical
hotspot like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
 
 
Please assist as you can.
 
Chuck Cole


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________

TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota

tclug-list at mn-linux.org

http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list




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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Oct 21 18:08:06 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 18:08:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
	facility
In-Reply-To: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
References: <092052F6EFBE424E95F12CB951D9C28A@D830B>
Message-ID: <165F7391-E45D-4741-A66A-D24D4607EF4E@cwis.biz>

Well, Chuck? nothing you have in ?quotes? needs to ?be? ?in? ?quotes?.

Secondly get a WiFi scanner. check the signal strength. check your speeds. Check the RSSI and the SNR. The closer the RSSI and signal strength are to 0 the better (they are negative values).

If you have lower speeds than you?re expecting then you know you have a combination of poor signal and interference. You could have signal overlay.

there is no 11MHz or 56MHz in a signal. There?s 11mbps and 56mbps. Like I said, you?re looking at interference.

If you have more than 10 devices connecting to an off-the-shelf WiFi device you?re SOL. They?re not designed to handle more than 5 or 6 devices at once. I have sold and installed higher end devices but they require doing a site survey - those cost $1500-$2500. If you want to hire my employer (based in Burnsville) I can give you a name to contact off list. We do good work, in fact you?ll end up working directly with me in the field since I?m the WiFi surveyor at the firm.

But as Wayne has said concrete and metal backings are not good for 802.11 signal, or any radio signal at all.

You really might be looking at a solution of well over $10,000 - be careful of what you ask for when you want to fix things.

Check on your subscriber link to make sure that your service provider is actually feeding you something more than 10Mbps. CenturyLink is VERY WELL KNOWN for overstating their service. I pulled their internet after 18 hours in 2010 because they were well below advertised and they spent months before refunding me any money.

?
Ryan

> On Oct 21, 2016, at 3:31 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Need wifi setup or management parameter help..
>  
> Some blind folk at Cherrywood Pointe  (senior living)  in Savage have tech support from MN Services for the Blind for Dragon (and related) screen reading software which needs internet to function properly.    Cherrywood is an Ebenezer managed facility with about 70 "independent living" residents who are cabalbe and typically affluent (rent is quite high).  Wifi is included in rent.  The wifi connection is erratic, and at such low speed that the software doesn't work.  I'm trying to help identify the problems so thet can be fixed.   "Bandaids" used before have not worked. 
>  
>  What is a typical building setup?  My info is only approximate now.  Centurylink has a "big" fiber-optic feed to the equipment room.  Cherrywood/Ebenezer equipment in the "communications room" converts to wire distribution.  There is a "building router" that has multiple "CAT5" feeds that support offices and 3 pairs of access points that distribute wifi in the facility .
>  
> All I need to know is basic bandwidth and connection info: I do not need to know anything private, and do not seek any actual admin access.
>  
> What is  a likely building router make and model?
> What is  a likely wifi access point make and model?
>  
> Are there typical bandwidth or speed restrictions affecting residents and guests?
> The connection speed of the 802.11g/n  links is usually only 11MHz, and  only once in a while 54MHz.
> The internet speed is usually only about 1.5 mb/sec,  and  occasionally 3 mb/sec  or so.
>  
> Those numbers seem far below a typical "wifi hotspot" connection.   I've never experienced such bad connections as these.  What does a typical hotspot like a Dunn Bros coffee shop offer?
>  
>  
> Please assist as you can.
>  
> Chuck Cole
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From n0nas at amsat.org  Fri Oct 21 22:21:49 2016
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 22:21:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
	facility
Message-ID: <CAL+RLOSYzF=xmVqtkqqPiz+k38To1fMtrrw75ZEW8fzaUSaNYA@mail.gmail.com>

My comments are probably not worth much because they just relate to
the opinions already given.

You say there are three sub nets and that at least one of the three
has good signal levels in each different area of the building.

What other WiFi signals are heard in the building?
Are the three sub-nets all on the same WiFi channel?
Are the sub nets smart enough to monitor user signal levels and dump
them when they begin to hit another sub net with more strength?

If the sub nets are all on the same channel, the stations all
interfere with each other.

If the sub nets are on different channels, are they on 1,6,11 or on
overlapping channels?
If the channels overlap, they interfere, if they are non-overlapping,
then the clients probably don't change AP when signals get poor and
nearby clients will still interfere with each other.

If the access points are configured for multiple mode B,G,N
compatibility, the constant mode hopping will tend to cause
interference and slower transfers.

If they have any equipment on 5GHz, then upgrade your equipment and
use 5GHz. There are only three non-overlapping channels on 2.4GHz. Too
many users and they are saturated. So then someone tries to slip in
another AP on an "unused" channel, and they interfere with two of the
non-overlapping channels and get interfered with in turn, everybody
looses.

One thing I do know for certain is that the 2.4GHz band or any single
channel can be saturated by having too many people trying to use it.
If you have 20 people trying to use the same 54Mb channel, they don't
each get 54Mb throughput. After collisions and retries, they are
probably lucky to get 500Kb each. I just pulled those numbers out of
the air but you can probably find evidence on the web to show real
numbers of scale.

I really don't know what the answer is.

Doug Reed.

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sat Oct 22 10:53:47 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 15:53:47 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Need basic internet access info for a large
	facility
In-Reply-To: <CAL+RLOSYzF=xmVqtkqqPiz+k38To1fMtrrw75ZEW8fzaUSaNYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL+RLOSYzF=xmVqtkqqPiz+k38To1fMtrrw75ZEW8fzaUSaNYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20161022155347.GA14347@nobelware.com>

I put my money on bad hardware. If things worked as expected at some point,
then it is certainly bad hardware. I have seen this over and over at the UofM
networks and recently at my house. It can be one piece of bad hardware in
the building that is causing all kinds of problems, or a single access point
near your friend's location.

Lots of good ideas here, but I can promise you Chuck that it will be really
hard to pin-point the problem from your vantage point. You need more solid
access, like, to hardware and software (configuration) to really find out
what is going on. You can start guessing (and spend a lot of time) by using
network scanners and software like traceroute, which is not intended to solve
WiFi issues, but routing problems.

I would take the advice of Mr Hayman; he knows what he is talking about. And
I would also consider the overlapping channels, and channel saturation with too
many devices to be problems. You may have multiple issues going on at once.
Certainly hard to say from your description, which I understand is as well as
you can do.

I see the point of view of the building management. They certainly do not want
malware to be thrown in there and potentially take advantage of a population
that is historically targeted by scams. You will have a hard time helping your
friend, I am afraid.


I would offer this advice. Find a piece of software that can monitor the
network activity in terms of droppped packets from the client side (that is
your friend's computer). See if the network is erratic in speed and by how
much. Find if there are repeated DHCP re-leases from the router, how many
per time, etc. Look for logged failures that the software may keep track on
its own. Put the software in use while something is streaming constantly and
get some data. Then, ask a neighbour of your friend to try the same from a
different location. If you get this kind of information from your side, you
may be able to get somebody on this list to match it with their experience
and pin-point the problem right away.

Sorry I cannot be of much more help. I really wish I could because if I were
in your friend's shoes I'd feel let down by the very technology that is
supposed to make our life better.



From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 23 19:34:12 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 19:34:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
Message-ID: <CABWFOju6=qko=8HkkMNsPseG-kaR_WNzkYQB=3dVnVkXJ5Ueqg@mail.gmail.com>

Iznogoud  writes:

>> I've installed Linux Mint on an Acer Travelmate laptop and am
>> having trouble getting the wireless stuff working.
>>
>> iwconfig says the access point is not associated.
>>
>> lspci says this:
>>
>> 01:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev bb)
>>     Subsystem: Intel Corporation Dual Band Wireless-N 7260
>>
>> dmesg says link is not ready.  It seem like I've had a similar
>> problem at least once before and that I might have been able
>> to get it fixed one time.  But I am not sure what to do next.
>
> There is most likely a module for hte wireless ethernet device 9card or
> itnernal) that has to be loaded. Some "bleeding edge" drivers are not yet
> in the kernel, depending on the age of the hardware and how popular it was
> in terms of volume sold. What we used to do is use "ndiswarpper" which is
> exactly that. an NDIS wrapper, to use drivers that come straight from
> Windows. You typically build the ndiswrapper with the drivers for the
device
> you have. Look it up.

I wound up installing True OS  -- trueos.org -- and things are
working, including the wireless.

The Linux Mint install encrypted the hard drive.  I don't think
I have that with True OS.   That encryption may have helped in
terms of browsing/popups.  Does that ring any bells?    Tia.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Oct 23 20:36:15 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 20:36:15 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOju6=qko=8HkkMNsPseG-kaR_WNzkYQB=3dVnVkXJ5Ueqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOju6=qko=8HkkMNsPseG-kaR_WNzkYQB=3dVnVkXJ5Ueqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <561A65A3-09F3-40C4-A347-C1E487F11106@cwis.biz>

TBCH does encryption of the installation and home folder really mean anything at all? No?

> On Oct 23, 2016, at 7:34 PM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Iznogoud  writes:
> 
> >> I've installed Linux Mint on an Acer Travelmate laptop and am
> >> having trouble getting the wireless stuff working.
> >>
> >> iwconfig says the access point is not associated.
> >>
> >> lspci says this:
> >>
> >> 01:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260 (rev bb)
> >>     Subsystem: Intel Corporation Dual Band Wireless-N 7260
> >>
> >> dmesg says link is not ready.  It seem like I've had a similar
> >> problem at least once before and that I might have been able
> >> to get it fixed one time.  But I am not sure what to do next.
> >
> > There is most likely a module for hte wireless ethernet device 9card or
> > itnernal) that has to be loaded. Some "bleeding edge" drivers are not yet
> > in the kernel, depending on the age of the hardware and how popular it was
> > in terms of volume sold. What we used to do is use "ndiswarpper" which is
> > exactly that. an NDIS wrapper, to use drivers that come straight from
> > Windows. You typically build the ndiswrapper with the drivers for the device
> > you have. Look it up.
> 
> I wound up installing True OS  -- trueos.org <http://trueos.org/> -- and things are
> working, including the wireless.  
> 
> The Linux Mint install encrypted the hard drive.  I don't think 
> I have that with True OS.   That encryption may have helped in 
> terms of browsing/popups.  Does that ring any bells?    Tia.
> 
> -- 
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
> http://webEbenezer.net <http://webebenezer.net/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Oct 24 11:00:19 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 16:00:19 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless trouble and Ben Shapiro
In-Reply-To: <561A65A3-09F3-40C4-A347-C1E487F11106@cwis.biz>
References: <CABWFOju6=qko=8HkkMNsPseG-kaR_WNzkYQB=3dVnVkXJ5Ueqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <561A65A3-09F3-40C4-A347-C1E487F11106@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20161024160019.GA2791@nobelware.com>

There are several mis-conceptions here. I will try to shed some light.

1. Encrypting partitions or containers is what one usually does. The system
will keep a copy of the deciphered key so that reading and writing to/from the
container/partition will encrypt/decrypt on the fly. That is at the OS level
if it is to make the data secure. It makes data secure in the sense that if
the hardware were to fall to the wrong hands the data would not be recoverable.

2. Encrypting files/folders is possible but it is not typically done in a
setup where the data changes constantly. It is possible in theory, but I do
not know of anyone or anything (software) that goes through that kind of
trouble.

3. Encrypting your filesystem will NOT save you from popups. Those two things
are _entirely_ different. (See my next two points.)

4. Just because you chose to "encrypt" when you installed your system it does
not mean that you are invincible, far from it. I would argue that if you do
not know what your "encrypt" part of the installation does, you are at risk
of losing your data. By that I mean that you may not be able to access it.
In essence, you tried so hard to be "safe" that you prevent yourself from
looking at the data. Of course, everyone will tell you to encrypt, but it all
goes well until there is a problem. True disaster and recovery, including
encrypted data, has people testing something before it is used. Your average
"iznogoud" will not know what the OS is trying to do, will not test recovery
of data before a disaster happens, and has no idea they are being stupid.

5. Encryption will not save you from compromised passwords, backdoors (NSA
style) and plain stupidity (like clicking left and right with a bad browser
in pages of unknown content and ownership). Popups usually come up on warez
sites, pr0n sites, sites with tricks and hacks, scams, etc. Those are very
likely to have malwere that can be injected in your browser (plugins) and
cause trouble. Linux and BSD (MacOSX included) are a lot safer that MS
products in my opinion. (I use encrypted containers on _every_ drive I own
and I only type the password to unlock the key of the crypto system when I
am sitting at the console of the system. Yes, that level of paranoia.)


TrueOS is based on FreeBSD, so it is pretty safe from viruses, backdoors, etc.
But if you are going to use a browser, do me a favour and do the following.
Create an account on the system that is essentially a throwaway, browse all
suspect content form that. Wipe clean the browser cache, config, etc, in that
user's home directory. Switch back to your regular user to browse legit
content. Usethat user's account when you are unsure of hte risk you are about
to take. Thank me later.

You can go back to a Linux system if you find what modules were used by TrueOS
and 'modprobe' the same ones on the newest Linux distro of your choice.


From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 17:43:10 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 17:43:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you test your firewall?
Message-ID: <b86fc8f9-dd36-3f30-937e-7615fc2a7c51@gmail.com>


I ask this of Linux users how they test their firewall from time to 
time.  I'm often referred to reports.  However, It makes no sense to me 
to have software grade itself.  Reporting what was detected doesn't tell 
me what's out there, it tells me what was detected.

Are there outside options other than "Shields UP!!"  from Gibson 
Research Corporation.  I've heard good and bad.


From sdalano at gmail.com  Sat Oct 29 20:27:19 2016
From: sdalano at gmail.com (Saul Alanis)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 20:27:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you test your firewall?
In-Reply-To: <CAPHnHUuTDVzxEzCnMGTAb0C4L4W3Cj8+sa-qRP2=LMjB-1h=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b86fc8f9-dd36-3f30-937e-7615fc2a7c51@gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUsf805h-9oeBT7GPMRNwWQwcv8j5-yPQ7zykTCwvkCWhQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUu+DP21exZGyVUQC9BvMntDQ1boXNER_GUiawzJva8DHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUuEwZhF_t+Gm8Hd7OdC5HQGBN1t=OLte97Dj4LbROSwXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUsURLzS7_aFc7XhJoQ2-Lpg92R7Cddu-kwUa_EHSjR41w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUvDoQXB+N-7P9ws+LeJKCdF=qvtOBb1kKpeDw2U6NaTYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUvVf6aifV9sN5XCNmH-RgPdqeADnGywUmW5csfH-c_C-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUuMdUF3an1TmTGpatiGaijtKA=kARh8HmQ3i5UQ1iYS2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUtE+PxTZnQuu=ZmhDh1mqfEXgj1uNW5aK1oo8bFzfS2ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUvDCFFJgx=OzmssuuefaptGTT955JZRmLDV1DcMwss7=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUt=CM3_qBnU6xXP5TT2FH9Citp1ETWfMN2xG1_vioOagg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUuTDVzxEzCnMGTAb0C4L4W3Cj8+sa-qRP2=LMjB-1h=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPHnHUtBM5bXyLEB5YPGOD5f4154x3oV+oxaeLzCnHs3h3=nDw@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 29, 2016 17:43, <rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I ask this of Linux users how they test their firewall from time to
time.  I'm often referred to reports.  However, It makes no sense to me to
have software grade itself.  Reporting what was detected doesn't tell me
what's out there, it tells me what was detected.
>
> Are there outside options other than "Shields UP!!"  from Gibson Research
Corporation.  I've heard good and bad.
>
>

Don't recall what service you mention. However, having Linux and BSD FWs
for many years I relied on nmap scans to give myself a idea. Also, there's
netalyzr for Android that you can look into, and at one point I had Snort
running.

On Oct 29, 2016 17:43, <rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com> wrote:


I ask this of Linux users how they test their firewall from time to time.
I'm often referred to reports.  However, It makes no sense to me to have
software grade itself.  Reporting what was detected doesn't tell me what's
out there, it tells me what was detected.

Are there outside options other than "Shields UP!!"  from Gibson Research
Corporation.  I've heard good and bad.

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com  Sun Oct 30 13:30:48 2016
From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 13:30:48 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] How do you test your firewall?
In-Reply-To: <CAPHnHUtBM5bXyLEB5YPGOD5f4154x3oV+oxaeLzCnHs3h3=nDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b86fc8f9-dd36-3f30-937e-7615fc2a7c51@gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUsf805h-9oeBT7GPMRNwWQwcv8j5-yPQ7zykTCwvkCWhQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUu+DP21exZGyVUQC9BvMntDQ1boXNER_GUiawzJva8DHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUuEwZhF_t+Gm8Hd7OdC5HQGBN1t=OLte97Dj4LbROSwXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUsURLzS7_aFc7XhJoQ2-Lpg92R7Cddu-kwUa_EHSjR41w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUvDoQXB+N-7P9ws+LeJKCdF=qvtOBb1kKpeDw2U6NaTYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUvVf6aifV9sN5XCNmH-RgPdqeADnGywUmW5csfH-c_C-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUuMdUF3an1TmTGpatiGaijtKA=kARh8HmQ3i5UQ1iYS2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUtE+PxTZnQuu=ZmhDh1mqfEXgj1uNW5aK1oo8bFzfS2ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUvDCFFJgx=OzmssuuefaptGTT955JZRmLDV1DcMwss7=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUt=CM3_qBnU6xXP5TT2FH9Citp1ETWfMN2xG1_vioOagg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUuTDVzxEzCnMGTAb0C4L4W3Cj8+sa-qRP2=LMjB-1h=Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPHnHUtBM5bXyLEB5YPGOD5f4154x3oV+oxaeLzCnHs3h3=nDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <973b69e8-26a4-eb12-222e-a3e6d7900f05@gmail.com>


> Don't recall what service you mention. However, having Linux and BSD 
> FWs for many years I relied on nmap scans to give myself a idea. Also, 
> there's netalyzr for Android that you can look into, and at one point 
> I had Snort running.
>
>

"Shields UP!!" is at https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2.  I'm not a 
shill but have used it for years.  I do remember they found some 
vulnerabilities of a distribution I tested years ago.  As I mention, I 
seem to remember some posts that it's the worst thing ever created.  
However, such posts aren't difficult to find about many products.  What 
do I know?

Your nmap idea is interesting and I remember someone at my SLUG meeting 
suggesting such years ago.  I know little of nmap but I'll do research.  
I assume you perform the scan from another box?
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