From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Sep  1 14:27:43 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:27:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFEvO0bM34CWjVsTb7T1Pu5m1O92UgKbpygYBO+L4EurQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>

What is off topic though?

http://project-byzantium.org/       <--------------

That is a linux distribution specifically for this reason.

What is linux and what is it good for. who decides what is on topic, off
topic, short, long, properly formated. so many negative opinions. i choose
this as one of my peer groups because of the size of the demographic. there
is literally every type of person on this list from so many different
backgrounds. i would be an idiot to not try and consult with those of you
who can handle it. didn't seem like that big of a deal to me but some of
you have a hard time ignoring emails that are an issue with you.

my grandma always said if you don't have anything nice to say don't say
anything at all; advice i wish i could follow myself!

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 9:16 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Sandwich,
> I think you will greatly benefit from looking for groups in meetup.com and
> find more topics that seem well-aligned with your interests (which are
> many).
> I follow a few local groups on there, like the Penguins.
>
> I personally prefer to keep off-topic subjects short. Like, for example,
> any
> sustainability discussion is only tangent to anything Linux or TC. I hope
> this makes sense. I think the mesh discussion was quite tangential to this
> list and, clearly, it has de-railed.
>
> I also echo the sentiment of trying to use an email client that respects
> your
> formatting. I use Mutt and I am typing in "vi" in a terminal right now.
> That
> is why you may see my emails look like truncated text, but I try to keep
> them
> as organized as possible.
>
> With much respect.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Sep  1 15:41:50 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 20:41:50 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>

> 
> What is linux and what is it good for. who decides what is on topic, off
> topic, short, long, properly formated. so many negative opinions. i choose
> this as one of my peer groups because of the size of the demographic.

Relax. That project is Linux based, and it is totally relevant. I did not
think the topic of the uses and management of mesh networks, etc, was
Linux-centric. Maybe I am wrong and it was my opinion that was offered.

Let's move on to more productive uses of our time.

From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Thu Sep  1 17:53:25 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 17:53:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>
References: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHONKRnN8ujeWdyxxeUHQeAwcAjfmkntGniQA6vgQPCuA@mail.gmail.com>

i am talking with people from the list directly about this mesh since it is
part of my talk on linux i am giving to the school administrators. so this
is important to me, not as important as raising my 4 kids, but i need to
have answers to questions from the principal and IT directors and without
asking some myself things are difficult.
if i am to give them a mesh system i need to have perecpective and my my
perspective is simply mine; i want other angles and protocols and
internals. i am using other peers from other resources; none of them have
offered to donate 2 working nodes like tom poe did on this list (this
particular TCLUG list on this particular thread). i can move on or i can
keep this list up to date with some of the progress, or not.
Honestly, i am impressed that you use vi for email; i am working on not
using the gui and learning as many stock unix commands as i can.

MESH NETWORKS..... more than just your random conversation. Physical
connections made between TCLUG members which will hopefully lead to
goodwill and better friendships, or not.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> >
> > What is linux and what is it good for. who decides what is on topic, off
> > topic, short, long, properly formated. so many negative opinions. i
> choose
> > this as one of my peer groups because of the size of the demographic.
>
> Relax. That project is Linux based, and it is totally relevant. I did not
> think the topic of the uses and management of mesh networks, etc, was
> Linux-centric. Maybe I am wrong and it was my opinion that was offered.
>
> Let's move on to more productive uses of our time.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Sep  1 23:54:36 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 23:54:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>
References: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <EE579A9E-59AC-4D50-B4BE-A15566011828@cwis.biz>


> On Sep 1, 2016, at 3:41 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> What is linux and what is it good for. who decides what is on topic, off
>> topic, short, long, properly formated. so many negative opinions. i choose
>> this as one of my peer groups because of the size of the demographic.
> 
> Relax. That project is Linux based, and it is totally relevant. I did not
> think the topic of the uses and management of mesh networks, etc, was
> Linux-centric. Maybe I am wrong and it was my opinion that was offered.

Not wrong at all. :-)

> 
> Let's move on to more productive uses of our time.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Sep  1 23:56:07 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 23:56:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHONKRnN8ujeWdyxxeUHQeAwcAjfmkntGniQA6vgQPCuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHONKRnN8ujeWdyxxeUHQeAwcAjfmkntGniQA6vgQPCuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AEEF8741-8BCD-41D2-8D6B-7E9E9A1E505E@cwis.biz>

If you wanted to have this conversation with me regarding design and private security you should have messaged me privately off the list.

And I would have ignored your third response like I did on here.

Paranoia has no place on the internet. Why? Because everything you do is logged. There?s no point. If you want anonymity I suggest going offline or using TOR and then be prepared to discover that the feds are watching you even closer, even if they don?t know WHO you are.

I?m done with this subject. Anyone that wants to discuss the best deployment practices of a MESH network please message me off list.



> On Sep 1, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> i am talking with people from the list directly about this mesh since it is part of my talk on linux i am giving to the school administrators. so this is important to me, not as important as raising my 4 kids, but i need to have answers to questions from the principal and IT directors and without asking some myself things are difficult.
> if i am to give them a mesh system i need to have perecpective and my my perspective is simply mine; i want other angles and protocols and internals. i am using other peers from other resources; none of them have offered to donate 2 working nodes like tom poe did on this list (this particular TCLUG list on this particular thread). i can move on or i can keep this list up to date with some of the progress, or not. 
> Honestly, i am impressed that you use vi for email; i am working on not using the gui and learning as many stock unix commands as i can. 
> 
> MESH NETWORKS..... more than just your random conversation. Physical connections made between TCLUG members which will hopefully lead to goodwill and better friendships, or not. 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com <mailto:iznogoud at nobelware.com>> wrote:
> >
> > What is linux and what is it good for. who decides what is on topic, off
> > topic, short, long, properly formated. so many negative opinions. i choose
> > this as one of my peer groups because of the size of the demographic.
> 
> Relax. That project is Linux based, and it is totally relevant. I did not
> think the topic of the uses and management of mesh networks, etc, was
> Linux-centric. Maybe I am wrong and it was my opinion that was offered.
> 
> Let's move on to more productive uses of our time.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From sdalano at gmail.com  Sat Sep  3 20:21:51 2016
From: sdalano at gmail.com (Saul Alanis)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 20:21:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Containers and Docker on FreeBSD
Message-ID: <CAPHnHUvvtvqd2_UvT2swOeq0E7ng_rzGWSd6y4V9Mkj7mMAMmA@mail.gmail.com>

Googling to see if FreeBSD can be run on top of Docker brought me to this
page.

http://www.freenas.org/blog/docker-done-right/

A user of FreeBSD for sometime now, I didn't even think to check if this
was something that it supported, but I find this freaking awesome.

Why I run FreeBSD today as opposed to Linux? Many years ago I purchased two
mini-itx boards with an atom processor and 4G of memory w/ dual 1G nics.
Recently, I wanted a mini lab again and start using Puppet. To make the
story short I installed one server with CentOS 7 and the other a FreeBSD
home router. Puppet on Linux runs on Java and when starting the service my
mini server, it just wasn't sufficient and the service would die. Can't
tell you if it was due to limitations of the system, though once I tried it
on FreeBSD which runs Ruby, 30 minutes later I had a working Puppet server
running on my FreeBSD router box.

Thinking about it I don't know that I am ready to dive into Docker on
FreeBSD this minute ( I <3 u FreeBSD) Though I have been tinkering a bit
with Atomic host from the Project Atomic and would love to hear if you have
experience with any of the new lightweight OSs' running Linux containers
specifically (like CoreOS, SmartOS, Atomic or RancherOS) or any cool
project using Linux containers?

-SDA
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From sraun at fireopal.org  Sat Sep  3 21:31:03 2016
From: sraun at fireopal.org (Scott Raun)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 21:31:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screensaver problem
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjvbFST8U2TM-d3sV0R=ir3kKhb1yWkQgudCx2fBT113XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjvbFST8U2TM-d3sV0R=ir3kKhb1yWkQgudCx2fBT113XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160904023103.GA1130@fireopal.org>

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 07:17:03PM -0500, Brian Wood wrote:
> Two or three times since I installed Linux Mint last week,
> I've come back to my laptop and not been able to get
> the screensaver to give me a prompt where I can enter my
> password.  The mouse still moves around, but pressing
> keys seems to have no effect.  I wind up powering off the
> machine and then restarting it.  I haven't configured the
> screensaver in any way.  Any ideas on how to fix that?

Will Ctl-Alt-F1 still get you to a terminal when it's in this state?

>From there, I'd expect you could ps to identify the screensaver
process and kill it.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 01:50:31 2016
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 01:50:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ps vs. htop or top
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609040144150.861@taxa1>

When I run htop or top I see compiz using 100% CPU, or nearly that.  Here 
is an example:

$ top -b | tail -n+7 | head -6

   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
24670 mbmiller  20   0 1706m 332m  12m R  100  2.1   6105:08 compiz
   297 root      20   0     0    0    0 R   16  0.0   1817:54 md1_raid1
22625 root      35  15     0    0    0 D    4  0.0   0:48.54 md1_resync
   906 messageb  20   0 1665m 1.6g  604 S    2 10.2  41:31.37 dbus-daemon
  1636 mbmiller  20   0 73372  52m 4048 S    2  0.3 370:22.92 Xvnc4


That seemed weird.  But when I look at it using ps, it always shows some 
small number like 2% CPU for compiz:

$ ps aux | gawk '$6=="RSS" || $3>1' | cut -c-107

USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
root         6  8.3  0.0      0     0 ?        S     2014 95736:08 [migration/0]
mbmiller 15582  2.7  3.5 4343684 576972 pts/3  Sl   Sep03  23:58 /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser
mbmiller 16733  1.5  4.2 3108676 703844 pts/3  Sl   Sep03  11:55 /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser
root     22625  1.7  0.0      0     0 ?        DN   00:57   0:48 [md1_resync]
mbmiller 24670  2.0  2.0 1712416 340952 ?      Rl   Feb06 6105:17 compiz


So my question is why is there that huge difference?  If I run htop in one 
xterm and ps in another at the same time, they still give these very 
divergent results.

Is compiz really burning a lot of CPU, or is htop just measuring it 
incorrectly?

Best,
Mike

From andrew at lunn.ch  Sun Sep  4 12:19:13 2016
From: andrew at lunn.ch (Andrew Lunn)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 19:19:13 +0200
Subject: [tclug-list] ps vs. htop or top
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609040144150.861@taxa1>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609040144150.861@taxa1>
Message-ID: <20160904171913.GU16864@lunn.ch>

On Sun, Sep 04, 2016 at 01:50:31AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> When I run htop or top I see compiz using 100% CPU, or nearly that.
> Here is an example:
> 
> $ top -b | tail -n+7 | head -6
> 
>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
> 24670 mbmiller  20   0 1706m 332m  12m R  100  2.1   6105:08 compiz
>   297 root      20   0     0    0    0 R   16  0.0   1817:54 md1_raid1
> 22625 root      35  15     0    0    0 D    4  0.0   0:48.54 md1_resync
>   906 messageb  20   0 1665m 1.6g  604 S    2 10.2  41:31.37 dbus-daemon
>  1636 mbmiller  20   0 73372  52m 4048 S    2  0.3 370:22.92 Xvnc4
> 
> 
> That seemed weird.  But when I look at it using ps, it always shows
> some small number like 2% CPU for compiz:
> 
> $ ps aux | gawk '$6=="RSS" || $3>1' | cut -c-107
> 
> USER       PID %CPU %MEM    VSZ   RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
> root         6  8.3  0.0      0     0 ?        S     2014 95736:08 [migration/0]
> mbmiller 15582  2.7  3.5 4343684 576972 pts/3  Sl   Sep03  23:58 /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser
> mbmiller 16733  1.5  4.2 3108676 703844 pts/3  Sl   Sep03  11:55 /usr/lib/chromium-browser/chromium-browser
> root     22625  1.7  0.0      0     0 ?        DN   00:57   0:48 [md1_resync]
> mbmiller 24670  2.0  2.0 1712416 340952 ?      Rl   Feb06 6105:17 compiz
> 
> 
> So my question is why is there that huge difference?  If I run htop
> in one xterm and ps in another at the same time, they still give
> these very divergent results.

It is worth reading the man page for ps(1) and htop(1).

ps(1) says:

      %cpu        %CPU      cpu utilization of the process in "##.#" format.
                             Currently, it is the CPU time used divided by the
                             time the process has been running
                             (cputime/realtime ratio), expressed as a
                             percentage.  It will not add up to 100% unless
                             you are lucky.

and top(1) says:

        1. %CPU  --  CPU Usage
           The task's share of the elapsed CPU time since the last screen
           update, expressed as a percentage of total CPU time.

>From ps we can also see that compiz has been running since February,
i.e. it has a very high real time. Thus cputime/realtime is low.

This suggests something bad has happened 'recently', causing compiz to
spin, when it normally just sleeps and occasionally does something.

      Andrew

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 12:39:23 2016
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 12:39:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Screensaver problem
Message-ID: <CABWFOjubAN6T_kwbHMacUKL3QiVRDic54DVXP-f9Lhjp+3ToCw@mail.gmail.com>

> Will Ctl-Alt-F1 still get you to a terminal when it's in this state?

That gets me to a blank screen but no prompt.
But sometimes when I go back to the desktop after
doing that with ctl-alt-f8, I get a login screen.  There
have been a few times when that hasn't worked either.

Today when I started my laptop, the battery was dead
and I had to plug it in before charging.  I think I put it
into "suspend" mode before closing it yesterday.  I think
that also may have happened in the past when I don't
bother to put it in "suspend" mode, but just close it.
It seems like that doesn't happen if I go for "hibernate"
mode.

I read somewhere that "hibernate" wasn't the greatest for
SSDs, so was using more suspend.  I don't know.... it's
a pain, but so is Windows. No shortage of poor options ...
reminds me of the upcoming election.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep  4 13:16:03 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 18:16:03 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Screensaver problem
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjubAN6T_kwbHMacUKL3QiVRDic54DVXP-f9Lhjp+3ToCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjubAN6T_kwbHMacUKL3QiVRDic54DVXP-f9Lhjp+3ToCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160904181603.GA1807@nobelware.com>

No shortage of problems I Would say.

You can CTRL-ALT+BACKSPACE and kill the X server too, which, I think, will
work even when the xlock is locking the screen. (The reason I bring up the
possibilty of xlock not owrking is because it has the sticky bit set usually.)
Killing the X is not a problem usually, but if your keyboard is not listening,
then you... cannot.


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep  4 13:20:35 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 18:20:35 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] ps vs. htop or top
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609040144150.861@taxa1>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609040144150.861@taxa1>
Message-ID: <20160904182035.GB1807@nobelware.com>

I would blame htop first. Reality lives in /proc and that is where all the
useful data comes from. Also, top is the standard tool. And htop is one of
those beutification things that us old-skoolers tend to stay away from. If
yo uare comfortable with top, stick to it.


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep  4 13:38:01 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 18:38:01 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Containers and Docker on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAPHnHUvvtvqd2_UvT2swOeq0E7ng_rzGWSd6y4V9Mkj7mMAMmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPHnHUvvtvqd2_UvT2swOeq0E7ng_rzGWSd6y4V9Mkj7mMAMmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160904183801.GC1807@nobelware.com>

As I had said earlier (just last week) in this list, FreeBSD is a great
platform for the near expert unix user, and there are many reasons for it.
ZFS was very recently added, and ZFS itself is under constant development,
so anyone going down that path is really almost on their own when it comes
to solving problems.

Having said that, I confess that I just heard of Docker at the last Penguins
meeting (thanks Lloyd) and as a Linux user I err on the side of LXC/LXD.
I certainly cannot advise on what is a good path forward with BSD over Docket
or even LXC. However, I am interested to follow on your experience (both for
Docker <-> FreeBSD and ZFS) and light-weight OSs for deploying containers.

Whether it is Atomic, Xen, LXC, Docket and combinations of those container
infrastructures and hypervisiors, I am after a very transparent virtualization
solution, about which I should not try to elaborate on this list but I welcome
questions over personal email.

And here is my question. I need an answer to this question:
https://lists.linuxcontainers.org/pipermail/lxc-users/2016-March/011188.html
I have emailed the OP and have got no response on their experience. I am
interested in pushing Infiniband transparently (to do RDMA from within the
container to other containers). If that can be done, I am buying you a lot of
beer.


From sdalano at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 15:02:49 2016
From: sdalano at gmail.com (Saul Alanis)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 15:02:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Containers and Docker on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <20160904183801.GC1807@nobelware.com>
References: <CAPHnHUvvtvqd2_UvT2swOeq0E7ng_rzGWSd6y4V9Mkj7mMAMmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160904183801.GC1807@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPHnHUuBZFHXPCxJR=n-wZgCPHCDCFW+98wnRCtf+ufrKuS7Wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sep 4, 2016 1:38 PM, "Iznogoud" <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>
> As I had said earlier (just last week) in this list, FreeBSD is a great
> platform for the near expert unix user,

I started FreeBSD right around when I first started getting serious with
Linux. I was quite the novice then and although I prefer it over Linux for
certain things, I  would run it in a production environment in a heart
beat; though, I don't nearly come close to the expertise of most of the
subscribers on this list. That being said, if I can do it, anyone who
enjoys Linux would definitely find it enjoyable and easy to learn.

and there are many reasons for it.
> ZFS was very recently added, and ZFS itself is under constant development,
> so anyone going down that path is really almost on their own when it comes
> to solving problems.
>
> Having said that, I confess that I just heard of Docker at the last
Penguins
> meeting (thanks Lloyd) and as a Linux user I err on the side of LXC/LXD.
> I certainly cannot advise on what is a good path forward with BSD over
Docket
> or even LXC. However, I am interested to follow on your experience (both
for
> Docker <-> FreeBSD and ZFS) and light-weight OSs for deploying containers.

The reason I've chosen Atomic is weight on the side of features, personal
interest and career. One great feature that I don't think the other light
weight OSs' offer is the atomic scan feature which let's you scan inside
the image for known CVEs'. There's another feature and it may only come in
the enterprise version called deep container inspection that am also
interested in learning. A side from that, it Atomic uses kubernetes for
managing clusters, so it's an additional plus.

> Whether it is Atomic, Xen, LXC, Docket and combinations of those container
> infrastructures and hypervisiors, I am after a very transparent
virtualization
> solution, about which I should not try to elaborate on this list but I
welcome
> questions over personal email.
>
> And here is my question. I need an answer to this question:
>
https://lists.linuxcontainers.org/pipermail/lxc-users/2016-March/011188.html

I read though it and although I'm not familiar with lxc, I had a similar
experience with a Linux container where the version we're running doesn't
allow you to permanently set the container host name. There is a flag you
can pass in *Docker* when starting the container so that you can attach the
host's network stack; thus inherenting the hostname, dns, interfaces,
etc... I would assume this might be what I would look at if running Docker
in your case? However, this is not considered security best practices and
there may be a new better and more secure feature in the newest release of
Docker.

> I have emailed the OP and have got no response on their experience. I am
> interested in pushing Infiniband transparently (to do RDMA from within the
> container to other containers). If that can be done, I am buying you a
lot of
> beer.

I don't see this being impossible with what I mentioned above, but I don't
have that infrastructure to validate.

-SDA
_______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep  4 15:18:59 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 20:18:59 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux Containers and Docker on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAPHnHUuBZFHXPCxJR=n-wZgCPHCDCFW+98wnRCtf+ufrKuS7Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPHnHUvvtvqd2_UvT2swOeq0E7ng_rzGWSd6y4V9Mkj7mMAMmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160904183801.GC1807@nobelware.com>
 <CAPHnHUuBZFHXPCxJR=n-wZgCPHCDCFW+98wnRCtf+ufrKuS7Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160904201859.GA5972@nobelware.com>

Thanks for the input. I will have to dig into Docker some more, and possibly
post on that list again. Docker may well handle hardware passthroughs better
than LXC. Luckily, I do have access to the hardware to test, with about 100
Linux nodes that are connected with infiniband and at present side-lined.

Infiniband cards (not the switch, on the compute node side) needs to give
the user ownership so that user-space code can write to the hardware. It is
not a real security issue, I can assure you. What gets more complicated in
my case is that within the containers (for security reasons) UIDs/GIDs are
changed (usually with an additive 60k integer or so) to allow malicious code
execution outside of the container. I am not there yet... it needs to work
first before I start worrying about security.

If I get anywhere with Docker, I will ping you for your information.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Sep  4 19:12:40 2016
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2016 19:12:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] ps vs. htop or top
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Bs+h+xh5rPz-8VqN+TWLCDJV11juzjZCM0oVC3tXusqQ@mail.gmail.com>

this oldskooler prefers htop, and finds no significant difference between
results reported by htop and top other than a more detailed and more
versatile presentation.  if compiz is sucking all the CPU it can, either
top or htop will make that clear.  andrew already clearly outlined how the
*top report can be quite different from ps.
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 13:56:33 2016
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 13:56:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] ps vs. htop or top
In-Reply-To: <20160904171913.GU16864@lunn.ch>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609040144150.861@taxa1>
 <20160904171913.GU16864@lunn.ch>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051236050.861@taxa1>

To me it looks like Andrew had the right answer -- the ps command is 
actually the one giving the unexpected (misleading) answers.  From man ps:

"CPU usage is currently expressed as the percentage of time spent running 
during the entire lifetime of a process. This is not ideal, and it does 
not conform to the standards that ps otherwise conforms to."

It looks to me like htop and top give the same answers, but they both 
differ from ps on the %CPU numbers.  So I think htop's CPU% gives a better 
answer for most purposes than ps's %CPU.

Mike


On Sun, 4 Sep 2016, Andrew Lunn wrote:

> It is worth reading the man page for ps(1) and htop(1).
>
> ps(1) says:
>
>      %cpu        %CPU      cpu utilization of the process in "##.#" format.
>                             Currently, it is the CPU time used divided by the
>                             time the process has been running
>                             (cputime/realtime ratio), expressed as a
>                             percentage.  It will not add up to 100% unless
>                             you are lucky.
>
> and top(1) says:
>
>        1. %CPU  --  CPU Usage
>           The task's share of the elapsed CPU time since the last screen
>           update, expressed as a percentage of total CPU time.
>
>> From ps we can also see that compiz has been running since February,
> i.e. it has a very high real time. Thus cputime/realtime is low.
>
> This suggests something bad has happened 'recently', causing compiz to
> spin, when it normally just sleeps and occasionally does something.
>
>      Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 14:35:01 2016
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 14:35:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>

It looks like compiz is running amok and using 100% CPU.  That might mean 
that it is using 100% of one of eight threads, or maybe using all of one 
core.  I'm not sure on that.  This is my chip, and in /proc/cpuinfo it 
comes up as having 7 cores:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz

What I'm really interested in is what compiz is doing for me.  I'm sure it 
is needed for the window manager on the console, but on this machine I'm 
never in front of it, always logging in via SSH and using VNC with IceWM. 
So what would happen if I just killed the compiz process?  Or maybe I 
could just restart it.  But would that disrupt the IceWM?  I'm thinking 
IceWM doesn't use compiz, so it wouldn't be affected.  The desktop on on 
the console would probably be hosed, but that isn't a problem for me. 
What do you think?

Mike

From andrew at lunn.ch  Mon Sep  5 14:48:34 2016
From: andrew at lunn.ch (Andrew Lunn)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 21:48:34 +0200
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
Message-ID: <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch>

On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 02:35:01PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> It looks like compiz is running amok and using 100% CPU.  That might
> mean that it is using 100% of one of eight threads, or maybe using
> all of one core.

The kernel scheduler will try to keep it on one core. Migrating it
from one core to another is inefficient, in that it has hot memory in
the L1 cache which is local to a core. Moving it means it needs to
rebuild that.

http://www.compiz.org/ tells you more about what compiz is.

It might be enough to log out your desktop session and log in again,
so it starts a new desktop.

    Andrew

From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Sep  5 17:00:58 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 17:00:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
Message-ID: <57CDEB1A.4080607@pinenet.com>

This probably isn't helpful. But I'm just delighted to see another IceWM 
user so here's my 2 cents.

My most modern machine is Intel Core Duo running 32 bit Opensuse. I 
prefer the 12.2 opensuse because khelpcenter still works, and doesn't on 
12.3 to 13.2. Anyway I don't have a clue about SSH or VNC or compiz. But 
using some old Xforms (libforms) programs once built on opensuse 12.2 
and a pentium4 single core, I have noticed great improvement in some 
timer graphics programs when using the mouse on a dual core CPU. The 
scheduler does seem to separate running programs from mouse events on 
separate cores. Using the mouse on a single core CPU definitely messed 
up timing and Xlib graphics. I run this on IceWM because it is almost 
directly Xlib rendering.

Using the kde4 system monitor (ksysguard), processes and resources are 
properly displayed for both CPU cores. And I sure don't see any compiz 
running. It works on my IceWM desktop. Might be worth a try.



Mike Miller wrote:
> It looks like compiz is running amok and using 100% CPU.  That might 
> mean that it is using 100% of one of eight threads, or maybe using all 
> of one core.  I'm not sure on that. This is my chip, and in 
> /proc/cpuinfo it comes up as having 7 cores:
>
> Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz
>
> What I'm really interested in is what compiz is doing for me.  I'm 
> sure it is needed for the window manager on the console, but on this 
> machine I'm never in front of it, always logging in via SSH and using 
> VNC with IceWM. So what would happen if I just killed the compiz 
> process?  Or maybe I could just restart it.  But would that disrupt 
> the IceWM?  I'm thinking IceWM doesn't use compiz, so it wouldn't be 
> affected.  The desktop on on the console would probably be hosed, but 
> that isn't a problem for me. What do you think?
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Sep  5 17:41:02 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 22:41:02 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <57CDEB1A.4080607@pinenet.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <57CDEB1A.4080607@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20160905224102.GA28832@nobelware.com>

I noticed the Xvnc process and figured this was a desktop to which you needed
remote access (for whatever the reason). For that you can have the X11 module
for Xvnc installed to see the :0 server. If you just need to access X remotely
on it form time to time in Xvnc, run a very lightwaight WM (like Minimal Window
Manager - mwm) and avoid the bloating of fancy WMs. A really old and quite
spectacular WM was AmiWM, for those of us who grew up on Amiga. Very stable,
very versatile and lightweight with the Workbench look. Written by a Swede in
the 90s. http://xwinman.org/amiwm.php FVWM2 has been rocking my world for
decades now.

You can explicitly set processor/memory affinity in most cases manually from
/proc but there are CLI tools for this. It really depends on what performance
hit we are talking about, although all CPU cycles is most certainly a lot.
A lightweight WM would be my bet.


PS> I must say I love Xlib talk. I am writing a lightweight VNC replacement
that I want to use for a special purpose. It will be opensourced. All I do is
segmented X framebuffer copies. Long live MIT's Athena project.


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Sep  6 13:54:07 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 13:54:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <AEEF8741-8BCD-41D2-8D6B-7E9E9A1E505E@cwis.biz>
References: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHONKRnN8ujeWdyxxeUHQeAwcAjfmkntGniQA6vgQPCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <AEEF8741-8BCD-41D2-8D6B-7E9E9A1E505E@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOEMgCtSP4gB3wXU84ZqqfY6cRkR7EbJWHmATmSF6XrHww@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for your offer Ryan and i hope it stands. i want to do this. off
list doesn't help document any processes. i have nothing that i want to
keep off list at this point. i am sure i will be needing help in the future
so with your permission if i don't see you respond i will ask you off list
also.

working with Slitaz now to try and cook up a "flavor" to include at least 1
mesh protocol to start. then work my way to multiple protocol support. i
found 3 newer protocols or so that are being used and i don't want to force
people to do use specific protocols but to use the disk that came in the
mail/magazine and have it work in their existing mesh network. i never do
anything the easy way, it has to be complicated, but thorough. i figure a
small distro that leaves space on cd's of usb sticks for multimedia
documentation.

and don't get hung up on the anonymity piece. i have no interest in tor for
this project. but as far as logging into my mesh network i would offer
service alerts (like avahi for service alerts, but for end users; it would
be like email, sms, #topic or something easy) or just access; since a mesh
network could in a sense have nothing to offer anyone and still be
accessible. in other words while you are a member of my mesh network you
will get an alert that someone has offered access to the internet by
plugging in their node to the access point. or a twitter/facebook replica
is available. or that it has become unavailable.
focus on the anonymous part is not the place i want to put too much focus.
not until i have a grasp on everything else and we have a functioning
model.

*then i will look into various sign in protocols so if you just want to
check and see what services are available you don't have to dish out your
email or cell phone number, but still be offered service alerts. that there
is the real nuts and bolts of the anonymity part.*

i may not have the best understanding of this yet but even if i am doing it
all wrong i have time to tear it all down and start from scratch with a new
and improved version of what i have in my head. sometimes that is the cost
of education. if i have to do it 3 times it is usually because i am still
schooling myself. 4 times is annoying and i have to consider trashing
projects.

Thank you all for taking the time to play around with the mesh network
idea. i think it is a lot of fun!

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:56 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

> If you wanted to have this conversation with me regarding design and
> private security you should have messaged me privately off the list.
>
> And I would have ignored your third response like I did on here.
>
> Paranoia has no place on the internet. Why? Because everything you do is
> logged. There?s no point. If you want anonymity I suggest going offline or
> using TOR and then be prepared to discover that the feds are watching you
> even closer, even if they don?t know WHO you are.
>
> I?m done with this subject. Anyone that wants to discuss the best
> deployment practices of a MESH network please message me off list.
>
>
>
> On Sep 1, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> i am talking with people from the list directly about this mesh since it
> is part of my talk on linux i am giving to the school administrators. so
> this is important to me, not as important as raising my 4 kids, but i need
> to have answers to questions from the principal and IT directors and
> without asking some myself things are difficult.
> if i am to give them a mesh system i need to have perecpective and my my
> perspective is simply mine; i want other angles and protocols and
> internals. i am using other peers from other resources; none of them have
> offered to donate 2 working nodes like tom poe did on this list (this
> particular TCLUG list on this particular thread). i can move on or i can
> keep this list up to date with some of the progress, or not.
> Honestly, i am impressed that you use vi for email; i am working on not
> using the gui and learning as many stock unix commands as i can.
>
> MESH NETWORKS..... more than just your random conversation. Physical
> connections made between TCLUG members which will hopefully lead to
> goodwill and better friendships, or not.
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > What is linux and what is it good for. who decides what is on topic, off
>> > topic, short, long, properly formated. so many negative opinions. i
>> choose
>> > this as one of my peer groups because of the size of the demographic.
>>
>> Relax. That project is Linux based, and it is totally relevant. I did not
>> think the topic of the uses and management of mesh networks, etc, was
>> Linux-centric. Maybe I am wrong and it was my opinion that was offered.
>>
>> Let's move on to more productive uses of our time.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Tue Sep  6 14:04:14 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 14:04:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] mesh protocol
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEMgCtSP4gB3wXU84ZqqfY6cRkR7EbJWHmATmSF6XrHww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E71B4434-AC58-4C47-8C4D-B489058ED2A0@cwis.biz>
 <20160826194727.GA14699@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHYE0T71_21nGgt2Q0z_V9huDW9-Tr+DSX3OKKt+XjyGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <69A24453-F37A-4D97-8D30-992E75C69C86@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOFjxHq3iAbkOPUy5jqemXPsHWH=0OvpgihMLGPYTQZTdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFqur9ySzipb-DNnf-7D7o+ZsVF+sqgtEhCs9=fkFpgQg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOFXAe7o-TMrWxLUHBNYvhmO07q4c_Dk-X_ECM3LicxFLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOE4uouh9VNy9aSbpeEZSMHmXbrt22s65O58JC6c7vaTbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160830021631.GA3624@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOGAU=R+Og8EG6A5c3u8vQ2R1T3XsAQgFmOhwirTPHG52Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160901204150.GA25090@nobelware.com>
 <CA+G9TOHONKRnN8ujeWdyxxeUHQeAwcAjfmkntGniQA6vgQPCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <AEEF8741-8BCD-41D2-8D6B-7E9E9A1E505E@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOEMgCtSP4gB3wXU84ZqqfY6cRkR7EbJWHmATmSF6XrHww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOEPH0f505UfuFheLdsks51_W1nCSYE591wFwqxmrdnN0Q@mail.gmail.com>

and don't be getting all angry because i missed a "of" instead of an "or"
when i proofread it. i realize there is no such thing as cds of usb's (or
is there? either way not what i meant). don't flame me. no secret that it
is harder to communicate on a list then in person. especially when i have
so much to say. also, my humor is off base and is easier to "get" in person
when you can see my mischievous grin.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thank you for your offer Ryan and i hope it stands. i want to do this. off
> list doesn't help document any processes. i have nothing that i want to
> keep off list at this point. i am sure i will be needing help in the future
> so with your permission if i don't see you respond i will ask you off list
> also.
>
> working with Slitaz now to try and cook up a "flavor" to include at least
> 1 mesh protocol to start. then work my way to multiple protocol support. i
> found 3 newer protocols or so that are being used and i don't want to force
> people to do use specific protocols but to use the disk that came in the
> mail/magazine and have it work in their existing mesh network. i never do
> anything the easy way, it has to be complicated, but thorough. i figure a
> small distro that leaves space on cd's of usb sticks for multimedia
> documentation.
>
> and don't get hung up on the anonymity piece. i have no interest in tor
> for this project. but as far as logging into my mesh network i would offer
> service alerts (like avahi for service alerts, but for end users; it would
> be like email, sms, #topic or something easy) or just access; since a mesh
> network could in a sense have nothing to offer anyone and still be
> accessible. in other words while you are a member of my mesh network you
> will get an alert that someone has offered access to the internet by
> plugging in their node to the access point. or a twitter/facebook replica
> is available. or that it has become unavailable.
> focus on the anonymous part is not the place i want to put too much focus.
> not until i have a grasp on everything else and we have a functioning
> model.
>
> *then i will look into various sign in protocols so if you just want to
> check and see what services are available you don't have to dish out your
> email or cell phone number, but still be offered service alerts. that there
> is the real nuts and bolts of the anonymity part.*
>
> i may not have the best understanding of this yet but even if i am doing
> it all wrong i have time to tear it all down and start from scratch with a
> new and improved version of what i have in my head. sometimes that is the
> cost of education. if i have to do it 3 times it is usually because i am
> still schooling myself. 4 times is annoying and i have to consider trashing
> projects.
>
> Thank you all for taking the time to play around with the mesh network
> idea. i think it is a lot of fun!
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:56 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
> wrote:
>
>> If you wanted to have this conversation with me regarding design and
>> private security you should have messaged me privately off the list.
>>
>> And I would have ignored your third response like I did on here.
>>
>> Paranoia has no place on the internet. Why? Because everything you do is
>> logged. There?s no point. If you want anonymity I suggest going offline or
>> using TOR and then be prepared to discover that the feds are watching you
>> even closer, even if they don?t know WHO you are.
>>
>> I?m done with this subject. Anyone that wants to discuss the best
>> deployment practices of a MESH network please message me off list.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> i am talking with people from the list directly about this mesh since it
>> is part of my talk on linux i am giving to the school administrators. so
>> this is important to me, not as important as raising my 4 kids, but i need
>> to have answers to questions from the principal and IT directors and
>> without asking some myself things are difficult.
>> if i am to give them a mesh system i need to have perecpective and my my
>> perspective is simply mine; i want other angles and protocols and
>> internals. i am using other peers from other resources; none of them have
>> offered to donate 2 working nodes like tom poe did on this list (this
>> particular TCLUG list on this particular thread). i can move on or i can
>> keep this list up to date with some of the progress, or not.
>> Honestly, i am impressed that you use vi for email; i am working on not
>> using the gui and learning as many stock unix commands as i can.
>>
>> MESH NETWORKS..... more than just your random conversation. Physical
>> connections made between TCLUG members which will hopefully lead to
>> goodwill and better friendships, or not.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>> > What is linux and what is it good for. who decides what is on topic,
>>> off
>>> > topic, short, long, properly formated. so many negative opinions. i
>>> choose
>>> > this as one of my peer groups because of the size of the demographic.
>>>
>>> Relax. That project is Linux based, and it is totally relevant. I did not
>>> think the topic of the uses and management of mesh networks, etc, was
>>> Linux-centric. Maybe I am wrong and it was my opinion that was offered.
>>>
>>> Let's move on to more productive uses of our time.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Sep  8 20:56:23 2016
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2016 20:56:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>

I decided that it probably wouldn't hose my IceWM if I killed compiz, so I 
killed it.  I was right.  It seems that the system respawned another 
compiz process immediately, but that process was using 0% CPU instead of 
100% CPU.  So that worked.

It probably hosed the desktop in my office, but I didn't feel like going 
to the office to see.  Maybe someday.  I'm enjoying the remote VNC 
approach.

Thanks for all the helpful comments!

Mike


On Mon, 5 Sep 2016, Andrew Lunn wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 02:35:01PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:

>> It looks like compiz is running amok and using 100% CPU.  That might 
>> mean that it is using 100% of one of eight threads, or maybe using all 
>> of one core.
>
> The kernel scheduler will try to keep it on one core. Migrating it from 
> one core to another is inefficient, in that it has hot memory in the L1 
> cache which is local to a core. Moving it means it needs to rebuild 
> that.
>
> http://www.compiz.org/ tells you more about what compiz is.
>
> It might be enough to log out your desktop session and log in again, so 
> it starts a new desktop.

From eng at pinenet.com  Sat Sep 10 20:33:43 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2016 20:33:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
Message-ID: <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>

Please let us know if you "hosed" your office desktop. I'm trying to 
learn something about the XWindow system by reading the old 1992 X11R5 
manual book series and playing with XForms and looking at some available 
source files. It might sound dumb to some here, but I find it 
interesting how the original X system was designed to replace the RS232 
console, and how the PC of the time was single tasking so was considered 
an X Terminal at best. The whole relationship of client applications, 
network invention, X Display Server was very innovative. Sending 
constants over the network instead of complete graphics or pointers to 
structures was an effort to simplify. It all works beautifully to this 
day, and we certainly take it for granted.

The VPN and 3D desktop is way outside my skills, but I still like 
learning what is new.

Mike Miller wrote:
> I decided that it probably wouldn't hose my IceWM if I killed compiz, 
> so I killed it.  I was right.  It seems that the system respawned 
> another compiz process immediately, but that process was using 0% CPU 
> instead of 100% CPU.  So that worked.
>
> It probably hosed the desktop in my office, but I didn't feel like 
> going to the office to see.  Maybe someday.  I'm enjoying the remote 
> VNC approach.
>
> Thanks for all the helpful comments!
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Mon, 5 Sep 2016, Andrew Lunn wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 02:35:01PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>
>>> It looks like compiz is running amok and using 100% CPU.  That might 
>>> mean that it is using 100% of one of eight threads, or maybe using 
>>> all of one core.
>>
>> The kernel scheduler will try to keep it on one core. Migrating it 
>> from one core to another is inefficient, in that it has hot memory in 
>> the L1 cache which is local to a core. Moving it means it needs to 
>> rebuild that.
>>
>> http://www.compiz.org/ tells you more about what compiz is.
>>
>> It might be enough to log out your desktop session and log in again, 
>> so it starts a new desktop.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 08:23:47 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 08:23:47 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch>
 <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1> <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rick, I like the way you think...

On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:

> Please let us know if you "hosed" your office desktop. I'm trying to learn
> something about the XWindow system by reading the old 1992 X11R5 manual
> book series and playing with XForms and looking at some available source
> files. It might sound dumb to some here, but I find it interesting how the
> original X system was designed to replace the RS232 console, and how the PC
> of the time was single tasking so was considered an X Terminal at best. The
> whole relationship of client applications, network invention, X Display
> Server was very innovative. Sending constants over the network instead of
> complete graphics or pointers to structures was an effort to simplify. It
> all works beautifully to this day, and we certainly take it for granted.
>
> The VPN and 3D desktop is way outside my skills, but I still like learning
> what is new.
>
>
> Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> I decided that it probably wouldn't hose my IceWM if I killed compiz, so
>> I killed it.  I was right.  It seems that the system respawned another
>> compiz process immediately, but that process was using 0% CPU instead of
>> 100% CPU.  So that worked.
>>
>> It probably hosed the desktop in my office, but I didn't feel like going
>> to the office to see.  Maybe someday.  I'm enjoying the remote VNC approach.
>>
>> Thanks for all the helpful comments!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 5 Sep 2016, Andrew Lunn wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 02:35:01PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>>>
>>
>> It looks like compiz is running amok and using 100% CPU.  That might mean
>>>> that it is using 100% of one of eight threads, or maybe using all of one
>>>> core.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The kernel scheduler will try to keep it on one core. Migrating it from
>>> one core to another is inefficient, in that it has hot memory in the L1
>>> cache which is local to a core. Moving it means it needs to rebuild that.
>>>
>>> http://www.compiz.org/ tells you more about what compiz is.
>>>
>>> It might be enough to log out your desktop session and log in again, so
>>> it starts a new desktop.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 08:42:08 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 08:42:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] irc
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOFrRXbHQRjK+Y9uafMg59hUkxwYMQKWedarjJ42SrymEw@mail.gmail.com>

so do most people use irc now?
i notice the volume of this list has gone from around 15 or so emails a day
to 1 or 2 a week.
where are all the newbie questions being answered?
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From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 09:25:03 2016
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 09:25:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] irc
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOFrRXbHQRjK+Y9uafMg59hUkxwYMQKWedarjJ42SrymEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+G9TOFrRXbHQRjK+Y9uafMg59hUkxwYMQKWedarjJ42SrymEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf59gZ1UFg32gjFYQX0z3e-rKy3OgxjBqpJVBuFzuGVMWxQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> so do most people use irc now?
> i notice the volume of this list has gone from around 15 or so emails a day
> to 1 or 2 a week.
> where are all the newbie questions being answered?

My guess would be that they're not being asked.

Inertia is very powerful especially when it comes to which operating
system to use!!

Regards

Dee

From jus at krytosvirus.com  Sun Sep 11 09:36:56 2016
From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 09:36:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] irc
Message-ID: <rd331vtea2blbythj626evfp.1473604491794@email.android.com>

Stopped using irc ages ago. Though my own private irc server is still running, haven't used it in a long while. I've seen many companies filter outbound irc ports simply because that traffic is more indicative of a hacked system than someone trying to chat.
Hopefully people figure things out on their own via the pretty rich internet archives of already asked and answered questions. Besides, learning what irc is and how to use it would likely result in a challenge for many, it is a rather esoteric tool these days.?


-------- Original message --------From: Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> Date: 9/11/16  8:42 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> Subject: [tclug-list] irc 
so do most people use irc now? 
i notice the volume of this list has gone from around 15 or so emails a day to 1 or 2 a week. 
where are all the newbie questions being answered?

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From sdalano at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 10:23:00 2016
From: sdalano at gmail.com (Saul Alanis)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 10:23:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] irc
In-Reply-To: <rd331vtea2blbythj626evfp.1473604491794@email.android.com>
References: <rd331vtea2blbythj626evfp.1473604491794@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAPHnHUvhaC7BX0CqkjmqaVt8-bsUooh7dySRwaPgO5GaQKXMJg@mail.gmail.com>

Somewhat agree with Dee that it depends which technology you're looking to
get answers for.

My experience has been that irc has always been the most convenient way to
communicate with a large set of community of users. And we use it still
somewhat often. To Justin's point, I've searched online for a specific
subject and have found useful information from archives of old mailing
lists or irc channel conversations.

Though lately I've seen startups and more recent technologies using slack
and even twitter to help answer user's questions.

-SDA


On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Justin Krejci <jus at krytosvirus.com> wrote:

> Stopped using irc ages ago. Though my own private irc server is still
> running, haven't used it in a long while. I've seen many companies filter
> outbound irc ports simply because that traffic is more indicative of a
> hacked system than someone trying to chat.
>
> Hopefully people figure things out on their own via the pretty rich
> internet archives of already asked and answered questions. Besides,
> learning what irc is and how to use it would likely result in a challenge
> for many, it is a rather esoteric tool these days.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> Date: 9/11/16 8:42 AM (GMT-06:00)
> To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: [tclug-list] irc
>
> so do most people use irc now?
> i notice the volume of this list has gone from around 15 or so emails a
> day to 1 or 2 a week.
> where are all the newbie questions being answered?
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep 11 12:18:41 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 17:18:41 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
 <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160911171841.GA16678@nobelware.com>

Rick,
The X window system is absolutely fantastic, and long live the Athena project.

In the 90s, I was confound to a VAX in college when Linux was starting up and
I was running it on my 486 duct-taped box with kernel 1.1. At the time it was
the XFree86 that had a liberal enough license for Patrick to include in his
Slackware distribution. Xorg came about later and he switched. That is the first
time I realized what a fantastic API Xlib was for making applications. I was
popping X windows on my 486 over the 24.400 baud modem. I had also pushed a
Netscape window over the modem on the Amiga X server... Doing things becasue
we could but great lessons.

With that preface, let me take the opportunity to say I am trying to do my part
to boost development of X-window based applications (and more so 3D based apps).
I am in the process of slowly releasing open source code aimed at the Unix
programmer. Slowly I want to push Windows-centric libraries for transparent
porting across systems. (Maybe in the end we all develop for Windows and rely
o CodeWeavers to run it for us under everything else.) This sounds like a lot
of talk and no substance, so here is the link to my recent releases:

https://github.com/nompelis/INXLib

I tried to make a "library" of using the Xlib without a steep learning curve
and also providing an example of how to use Xlib and how it works. As for my
library, here is the first demo built on top of it:

https://github.com/nompelis/INXLib/tree/master/demo1

I am in the process of authoring a set of 3D widgets, so that I can make a
3D desktop accessible to virtual reality applications. Again, I am starting
with X11 but I promise to deliver a cross-platform library (if you know what
SDL has been for the last 10 years you get the idea).

All comments and criticism welcome. Happy hacking.


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep 11 12:26:12 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 17:26:12 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] irc
In-Reply-To: <CAPHnHUvhaC7BX0CqkjmqaVt8-bsUooh7dySRwaPgO5GaQKXMJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <rd331vtea2blbythj626evfp.1473604491794@email.android.com>
 <CAPHnHUvhaC7BX0CqkjmqaVt8-bsUooh7dySRwaPgO5GaQKXMJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160911172612.GB16678@nobelware.com>

I'd say that IRC is the quickest way of the recent past of getting a decent
answer. The best answers were mostly centered in USENET (if you remember),
and irc was mostly centered around esoteric discussions, malicious and not.

A good search and some patience will take the newbie a very long way nowadays.
And there is a forum for everything now as well. I think that the real-time
chat is not very good now given the size of the audience. I was in IRC chat-
rooms in the 90s with 20 individuals talking and that was hard to do. At some
point there had to be moderation and there were limits of who could "talk"
while the masses could only listen. The numbers of users was the killer of IRC,
and it makes sense to me.

Nowadays tech service companies (such as Rackspace/Slicehost) use this for
one-on-one chat customer support. That is the extent of the use I see of
real-time chats.

Glad to have been part of it in the early days when it was useful.


From eng at pinenet.com  Sun Sep 11 13:38:22 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 13:38:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <20160911171841.GA16678@nobelware.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
 <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160911171841.GA16678@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <57D5A49E.8040403@pinenet.com>

That is NOT "a lot of talk and no substance."

I'm a bit older than you and always behind the curve. I started 
programming computers using punch cards at the U, a year or two later 
the U had text terminals for students who didn't know what they didn't 
miss. I later worked in a Biophysical chemistry lab and barely got a 
PDP11 working to read punched paper tape off a scintillation (radiation) 
counter. My big leap forward was getting an Epson QX10 and did the 
"translation of coordinates" needed for pseudo 3D graphic electro-optic 
coefficients of peptide "liquid crystal" concepts. Don't ask me how it 
worked using QBasic and beta QDraw, but when I started to run the 
program the screen went blank for several minutes and I had to beg the 
investors to stay while I prayed the computer would come back to life.

I remember some managers from NWBell said, when I was pushing fiber 
optics, if I ever knew some common networking protocol for 
micro-computers let him know. I suspect that was the software code in 
some papers/books an IBM guy gave me, but I didn't know what C looked 
like, and barely do now. So the timeline of development helps me 
understand my gray hair.

Personally, I'm disappointed the Direct Framebuffer guys seemed to give 
up. I don't want another desktop, X and KDE are already spectacular. I 
want real time hardware access, not "requests" and "hints."

Iznogoud wrote:
> Rick,
> The X window system is absolutely fantastic, and long live the Athena project.
>
> In the 90s, I was confound to a VAX in college when Linux was starting up and
> I was running it on my 486 duct-taped box with kernel 1.1. At the time it was
> the XFree86 that had a liberal enough license for Patrick to include in his
> Slackware distribution. Xorg came about later and he switched. That is the first
> time I realized what a fantastic API Xlib was for making applications. I was
> popping X windows on my 486 over the 24.400 baud modem. I had also pushed a
> Netscape window over the modem on the Amiga X server... Doing things becasue
> we could but great lessons.
>
> With that preface, let me take the opportunity to say I am trying to do my part
> to boost development of X-window based applications (and more so 3D based apps).
> I am in the process of slowly releasing open source code aimed at the Unix
> programmer. Slowly I want to push Windows-centric libraries for transparent
> porting across systems. (Maybe in the end we all develop for Windows and rely
> o CodeWeavers to run it for us under everything else.) This sounds like a lot
> of talk and no substance, so here is the link to my recent releases:
>
> https://github.com/nompelis/INXLib
>
> I tried to make a "library" of using the Xlib without a steep learning curve
> and also providing an example of how to use Xlib and how it works. As for my
> library, here is the first demo built on top of it:
>
> https://github.com/nompelis/INXLib/tree/master/demo1
>
> I am in the process of authoring a set of 3D widgets, so that I can make a
> 3D desktop accessible to virtual reality applications. Again, I am starting
> with X11 but I promise to deliver a cross-platform library (if you know what
> SDL has been for the last 10 years you get the idea).
>
> All comments and criticism welcome. Happy hacking.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep 11 14:25:07 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 19:25:07 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <57D5A49E.8040403@pinenet.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
 <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160911171841.GA16678@nobelware.com> <57D5A49E.8040403@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20160911192507.GA21160@nobelware.com>

I never met anyone who actually physically had a PDP11. At Minnesota State in
the 90s we emulated it (what a concept!) Hey, at least you still have hair!

> 
> Personally, I'm disappointed the Direct Framebuffer guys seemed to give 
> up. I don't want another desktop, X and KDE are already spectacular. I 
> want real time hardware access, not "requests" and "hints."
>

It is still there (in Linux). Back in the day (circa 2002) I had to jump
through a lot of hoops to get OpenGL hardware accelerated stuff to work on X
running over a Voodoo 3Dfx card. Back then, 3D accelerated graphics in X was
just giving a "viewport" to the native 3Dfx drivers. So it was the same type
of calls made to the graphics hardware if you were on X or a tty (console) on
the machine. If it went bad... I had to log in from another computer and simply
restart the system. No. You want the X server to do whatever possible to
talk to the hardware on your behalf. It has worked really well for over a
decade now. You can get incredible framerates too. I assure you that you want
constants sent to the hardware. That is how SGI designed OpenGL over X at the
infancy of OpenGL.

has anyone tried doing 3D accelerated graphics over the network? That is where
OpenGL over X really shines. On the client side there is a lot passed over
the network when you send the graphics, so you want to be using display lists
or the more contemporary vertex buffer objects, vertex arrays, etc. One you
get those over the network, they stay on the server side, and only short
messages go across the network (usually TCP). That is _if_ the software is
written properly. Great design if you ask me.

Also, in the context of an application running on a "desktop" or a workstation,
the command line would not be popular. There are ergonomic and market reasons
for needing a windowing system. People want their email reader on the same
desktop as their high-performance graphics.

You will find arguments for and against what you are talking about. I err on
the side of "hardware is fast enough for what I need to use Xlib" and I stick
with it. Go with it and thank me later.

Most people write software for Qt, Tcl/Tk, Motif, etc. There is no choise
there.

From eng at pinenet.com  Sun Sep 11 15:20:37 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 15:20:37 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <20160911192507.GA21160@nobelware.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
 <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160911171841.GA16678@nobelware.com> <57D5A49E.8040403@pinenet.com>
 <20160911192507.GA21160@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <57D5BC95.9030406@pinenet.com>

Having enjoyed using Tcl/Tk and iWidgets, I question why I'm plowing 
through the XForms toolkit.

http://xforms-toolkit.org/

Actually, I'm just updating a FreePascal port I updated before. I really 
like Freepascal for many reasons, mostly I can read it. But I learn a 
lot, so what you say makes sense to me.

When the framebuffer first came out, I used Freepascal to draw lines and 
circles in colors on the framebuffer, /dev/fb0. Pretty nice until the 
text console insisted on sharing the screen, so I knew it was too big a 
project for me.

The problem with X seems to be all the queues. It draws when it wants to 
draw. I really don't know all the modern graphics cards stuff.

Perhaps I'm stuck in the instrumentation era. All these new child 
hardware devices like Arduino are sensational appendages to the linux 
management hardware host. Any uncertainty in display response is a 
potential glitch.


Iznogoud wrote:
> I never met anyone who actually physically had a PDP11. At Minnesota State in
> the 90s we emulated it (what a concept!) Hey, at least you still have hair!
>
>> Personally, I'm disappointed the Direct Framebuffer guys seemed to give
>> up. I don't want another desktop, X and KDE are already spectacular. I
>> want real time hardware access, not "requests" and "hints."
>>
> It is still there (in Linux). Back in the day (circa 2002) I had to jump
> through a lot of hoops to get OpenGL hardware accelerated stuff to work on X
> running over a Voodoo 3Dfx card. Back then, 3D accelerated graphics in X was
> just giving a "viewport" to the native 3Dfx drivers. So it was the same type
> of calls made to the graphics hardware if you were on X or a tty (console) on
> the machine. If it went bad... I had to log in from another computer and simply
> restart the system. No. You want the X server to do whatever possible to
> talk to the hardware on your behalf. It has worked really well for over a
> decade now. You can get incredible framerates too. I assure you that you want
> constants sent to the hardware. That is how SGI designed OpenGL over X at the
> infancy of OpenGL.
>
> has anyone tried doing 3D accelerated graphics over the network? That is where
> OpenGL over X really shines. On the client side there is a lot passed over
> the network when you send the graphics, so you want to be using display lists
> or the more contemporary vertex buffer objects, vertex arrays, etc. One you
> get those over the network, they stay on the server side, and only short
> messages go across the network (usually TCP). That is _if_ the software is
> written properly. Great design if you ask me.
>
> Also, in the context of an application running on a "desktop" or a workstation,
> the command line would not be popular. There are ergonomic and market reasons
> for needing a windowing system. People want their email reader on the same
> desktop as their high-performance graphics.
>
> You will find arguments for and against what you are talking about. I err on
> the side of "hardware is fast enough for what I need to use Xlib" and I stick
> with it. Go with it and thank me later.
>
> Most people write software for Qt, Tcl/Tk, Motif, etc. There is no choise
> there.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sun Sep 11 19:23:11 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 00:23:11 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <57D5BC95.9030406@pinenet.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
 <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160911171841.GA16678@nobelware.com> <57D5A49E.8040403@pinenet.com>
 <20160911192507.GA21160@nobelware.com> <57D5BC95.9030406@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20160912002311.GA4101@nobelware.com>

> 
> Having enjoyed using Tcl/Tk and iWidgets, I question why I'm plowing 
> through the XForms toolkit.
> 
> http://xforms-toolkit.org/
> 

I like light-weiught widgets and this looks like one of those. I use Motif
(or Lesstif (more liberal license) for stuff like that, primarily because of
the SGI retro look of the widgets and the fact that I know how to use them
(object orientated design with a pure C API). The Open Group wanted about $5k
for the license for commercial purposes, and that is when Lesstif came about.
What would compile with -lXm is done with -lXt and so a really simple change
to legacy code. (that was a tangent)

What you did with Freepascal and /dev/fbN you can do with OpenGL over the GLX
layer in X11. I recommend it. OpenGL will not let you down.

> 
> The problem with X seems to be all the queues. It draws when it wants to 
> draw. I really don't know all the modern graphics cards stuff.
> 

Was there a latency issue for you? I say that over 24 fps speaks to almost no
latency for a user interfaces. Xlib has a better design than meets the eye.
There is extensive use of C unions so that structures (for events and other
objects that are handled) are handled polymorphically. The memory overhead
on the stack is something I _never_ had an issue with, but I also never
profiled it to see what it is.

If you need help with Xlib let me know and I will be happy to help. There sure
will not be a way back to anything lower level from now on unless there is
good reason for it, and that will be for special cases. You might as well
drink my Xlib coolaid. Tcl/Tk, Motif, etc, will work really well. Go with
the XForms and let us know of your experience.


From eng at pinenet.com  Sun Sep 11 21:54:58 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:54:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] effect on IceWM of killing compiz process?
In-Reply-To: <20160912002311.GA4101@nobelware.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609051356430.861@taxa1>
 <20160905194834.GC2719@lunn.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1609082049260.27928@taxa1>
 <57D4B477.7030806@pinenet.com>
 <CA+G9TOEpuwBGkRB0vw7a0Bw9f=AXVm4JoaQdxuyUxTw30cXpBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160911171841.GA16678@nobelware.com> <57D5A49E.8040403@pinenet.com>
 <20160911192507.GA21160@nobelware.com> <57D5BC95.9030406@pinenet.com>
 <20160912002311.GA4101@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <57D61902.4000700@pinenet.com>

Thanks for your offer. I'll take you up on it in a different thread 
after I look at some of your suggestions. You make some good points and 
I appreciate not knowing good answers.

Iznogoud wrote:
>> Having enjoyed using Tcl/Tk and iWidgets, I question why I'm plowing
>> through the XForms toolkit.
>>
>> http://xforms-toolkit.org/
>>
> I like light-weiught widgets and this looks like one of those. I use Motif
> (or Lesstif (more liberal license) for stuff like that, primarily because of
> the SGI retro look of the widgets and the fact that I know how to use them
> (object orientated design with a pure C API). The Open Group wanted about $5k
> for the license for commercial purposes, and that is when Lesstif came about.
> What would compile with -lXm is done with -lXt and so a really simple change
> to legacy code. (that was a tangent)
>
> What you did with Freepascal and /dev/fbN you can do with OpenGL over the GLX
> layer in X11. I recommend it. OpenGL will not let you down.
>
>> The problem with X seems to be all the queues. It draws when it wants to
>> draw. I really don't know all the modern graphics cards stuff.
>>
> Was there a latency issue for you? I say that over 24 fps speaks to almost no
> latency for a user interfaces. Xlib has a better design than meets the eye.
> There is extensive use of C unions so that structures (for events and other
> objects that are handled) are handled polymorphically. The memory overhead
> on the stack is something I _never_ had an issue with, but I also never
> profiled it to see what it is.
>
> If you need help with Xlib let me know and I will be happy to help. There sure
> will not be a way back to anything lower level from now on unless there is
> good reason for it, and that will be for special cases. You might as well
> drink my Xlib coolaid. Tcl/Tk, Motif, etc, will work really well. Go with
> the XForms and let us know of your experience.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From cncole at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 16 16:12:28 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:12:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on
	Slack
Message-ID: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>

TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
 

  _____  

From: feedback at slack.com [mailto:feedback at slack.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
Subject: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on Slack




 <https://www.slack.com>  



Join TCLUG on Slack


john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and has invited you to join the Slack team TCLUG.

Join  <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4> Team 	

You may copy/paste this link into your browser: https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4

Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com and we?ll respond.

Cheers,
The team at Slack 


	


Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com>   ?  Our Blog <http://slackhq.com> 
155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103 

Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv>  from any communication about this email 

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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Sep 16 16:31:56 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:31:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUG
	on Slack
In-Reply-To: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
Message-ID: <CC50196D-FB61-4A9A-AFBE-B8816CF753EF@cwis.biz>


> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?

Nope.
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Fri Sep 16 16:35:19 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:35:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUG
	on Slack
In-Reply-To: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>

TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every
time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I
could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has
yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list.
What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing
right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in
front of people; I do still need some level of privacy.
TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The
willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to
let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:

> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* feedback at slack.com [mailto:feedback at slack.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
> *Subject:* john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on Slack
>
> <https://www.slack.com>
> Join TCLUG on Slack
>
> john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and
> has invited you to join the Slack team *TCLUG*.
> Join Team
> <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>
> You may copy/paste this link into your browser: https://tclug.slack.com/x-
> 78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC
> 01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4
>
> Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com and
> we?ll respond.
>
> Cheers,
> The team at Slack
>
> Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com>  ?  Our Blog
> <http://slackhq.com>
> 155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103
> <#m_8153080132891940580_>
>
> Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv> from
> any communication about this email
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Sep 17 05:01:19 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 05:01:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUG
	on Slack
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>

Let me make a few assumptions here.
someone offers you an invite to a list.
from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief.
the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat
down, which is the opposite of support.
i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why
did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have
said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is
indicative of exactly that.
no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be
disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you
treat people. i am disappointed in you.
if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this
environment?
here is what i propose.
this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh
start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to
their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just
ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.
when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is
even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be
implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that
would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public
to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when
it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had
suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please
don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and
it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is
good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost
too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor.
simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site
ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain
myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of
line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to
spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other
than as a means to beat someone down.

and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on
you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright
and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a
day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is
good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for
questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS.

i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and grow.
Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain their
interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever  just
don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list. please.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every
> time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I
> could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has
> yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list.
> What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing
> right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in
> front of people; I do still need some level of privacy.
> TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The
> willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to
> let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* feedback at slack.com [mailto:feedback at slack.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
>> *Subject:* john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on Slack
>>
>> <https://www.slack.com>
>> Join TCLUG on Slack
>>
>> john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and
>> has invited you to join the Slack team *TCLUG*.
>> Join Team
>> <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>>
>> You may copy/paste this link into your browser:
>> https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODA
>> yNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4
>>
>> Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com
>> and we?ll respond.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> The team at Slack
>>
>> Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com>  ?  Our Blog
>> <http://slackhq.com>
>> 155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103
>> <#m_3894910318043790971_m_8153080132891940580_>
>>
>> Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv>
>> from any communication about this email
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sat Sep 17 08:45:09 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 08:45:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUG
	on Slack
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>

I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother.

We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are you attacking Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?



> On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Let me make a few assumptions here.
> someone offers you an invite to a list.
> from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief. 
> the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat down, which is the opposite of support.
> i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is indicative of exactly that. 
> no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you treat people. i am disappointed in you. 
> if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this environment?
> here is what i propose. 
> this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.
> when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor. simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other than as a means to beat someone down. 
> 
> and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS. 
> 
> i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and grow. Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain their interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever  just don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list. please.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
> TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list. 
> What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in front of people; I do still need some level of privacy. 
> TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net <mailto:cncole at earthlink.net>> wrote:
> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
>  
> 
> From: feedback at slack.com <mailto:feedback at slack.com> [mailto:feedback at slack.com <mailto:feedback at slack.com>] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
> Subject: john.trammell at gmail.com <mailto:john.trammell at gmail.com> invited you to TCLUG on Slack
> 
>  <https://www.slack.com/>
> Join TCLUG on Slack
> 
> john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and has invited you to join the Slack team TCLUG.
> 
> Join Team  <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
> You may copy/paste this link into your browser: https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4 <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
> Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com <mailto:feedback at slack.com> and we?ll respond.
> 
> Cheers,
> The team at Slack
> 
> Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com/>  ?  Our Blog <http://slackhq.com/>
> 155 5th Street, 6th Floor ??? San Francisco, CA ??? 94103 <x-msg://100/#m_3894910318043790971_m_8153080132891940580_>
> Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv> from any communication about this email
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From j at packetgod.com  Sat Sep 17 09:15:21 2016
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 09:15:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUG
	on Slack
In-Reply-To: <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CADr-737jkJ7fb7moR+qby_OkRMnTzCgeq+2GQ=-qSs0WOYY80g@mail.gmail.com>

Slack would be cool to use but it does appear to be invite only with no way
to "knock" to get in.  Wondering if there is an API we could write a script to
auto invite new email addresses seen in tclug email.
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From cncole at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 17 10:37:01 2016
From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 10:37:01 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>

I was just "subscribed" to SLACK without my doing anything, they got my name wrong, and I have no way to unsubscribe or participate.
 
I'm one of the earliest members here, and have seen other attempts to commandeer the group and change its nature somehow.
 
"Sandwhich Eyes" seems to be a newbie here - on his own podium, and missing a few clues.
 
We had no discussion of SLACK here, and no proposed basis for another group using different software or leadership.
This appears to be just-another-piracy-attempt of some sort. 
 
Has there been any discussion or preface for this?  My search showed nothing.
 
 
Chuck


  _____  

From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 8:45 AM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon Slack


I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother. 

We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are you attacking Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?




On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:

Let me make a few assumptions here.

someone offers you an invite to a list.

from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief. 

the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat down, which is the opposite of support.

i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is indicative of exactly that. 

no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you treat people. i am disappointed in you. 

if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this environment?

here is what i propose. 

this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.

when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor. simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other than as a means to beat someone down. 

and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS. 


i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and grow. Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain their interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever  just don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list. please.


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:


TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list. 

What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in front of people; I do still need some level of privacy. 

TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:



TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
 

  _____  

From: feedback at slack.com [mailto:feedback at slack.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
Subject: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on Slack




 <https://www.slack.com/>  



Join TCLUG on Slack


john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and has invited you to join the Slack team TCLUG.

Join Team  <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4> 	

You may copy/paste this link into your browser: https://tclug.slack.com/x-7846 <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4> 8710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4

Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com and we?ll respond.

Cheers,
The team at Slack 


	


Made by Slack Technologies,  <https://slack.com/> Inc  ?  Our Blog <http://slackhq.com/> 
155  <x-msg://100/#m_3894910318043790971_m_8153080132891940580_> 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103 

Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv>  from any communication about this email 


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/ma <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list> ilman/listinfo/tclug-list





_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Sep 17 11:04:29 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:04:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>

*i think calling someone a thief by implying piracy is criminal.* i think
that is clear.
if by attacking you mean pointing out when someone is randomly throwing
accusations about people and criminal intent for setting up a slack
account. do you not see that? do you all not see that when people are
allowed to troll that it effects everyone? i have been on this list for
over 10 years. i can see why there is no traffic on here anymore. i could
stay and help put rude condescending and outright criminal behavior in
check. but why, you are all adults.
i would ask for a consensus on this but i would guess if people speak up
they would just get flamed and accused of piracy or some other super random
accusation.
i wonder what percentage of this list are decent caring people?  anyone
care to speak up before i move on to other places? why am i attacking
chuck, bist du blint?


On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I was just "subscribed" to SLACK without my doing anything, they got my
> name wrong, and I have no way to unsubscribe or participate.
>
> I'm one of the earliest members here, and have seen other attempts to
> commandeer the group and change its nature somehow.
>
> "Sandwhich Eyes" seems to be a newbie here - on his own podium, and
> missing a few clues.
>
> We had no discussion of SLACK here, and no proposed basis for another
> group using different software or leadership.
> This appears to be just-another-piracy-attempt of some sort.
>
> Has there been any discussion or preface for this?  My search showed
> nothing.
>
>
> Chuck
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
> linux.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Coleman
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 8:45 AM
> *To:* TCLUG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to
> TCLUGon Slack
>
> I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother.
>
> We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are you attacking
> Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?
>
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Let me make a few assumptions here.
> someone offers you an invite to a list.
> from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief.
> the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat
> down, which is the opposite of support.
> i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why
> did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have
> said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is
> indicative of exactly that.
> no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be
> disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you
> treat people. i am disappointed in you.
> if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this
> environment?
> here is what i propose.
> this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh
> start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to
> their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just
> ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.
> when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is
> even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be
> implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that
> would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public
> to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when
> it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had
> suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please
> don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and
> it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is
> good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost
> too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor.
> simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site
> ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain
> myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of
> line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to
> spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other
> than as a means to beat someone down.
>
> and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on
> you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright
> and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a
> day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is
> good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for
> questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS.
>
> i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and
> grow. Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain
> their interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever
> just don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list.
> please.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every
>> time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I
>> could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has
>> yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list.
>> What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing
>> right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in
>> front of people; I do still need some level of privacy.
>> TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The
>> willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to
>> let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* feedback at slack.com [mailto:feedback at slack.com]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
>>> *Subject:* john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on Slack
>>>
>>> <https://www.slack.com/>
>>> Join TCLUG on Slack
>>>
>>> john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and
>>> has invited you to join the Slack team *TCLUG*.
>>> Join Team
>>> <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>>>
>>> You may copy/paste this link into your browser:
>>> https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODA
>>> yNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4
>>>
>>> Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com
>>> and we?ll respond.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> The team at Slack
>>>
>>> Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com/>  ?  Our Blog
>>> <http://slackhq.com/>
>>> 155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv>
>>> from any communication about this email
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Sep 17 11:05:23 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 11:05:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHS8K03OeznPaD_u+z1SxRjkF1+FsLfLVPZSMC_Ehbc7Q@mail.gmail.com>

trolls backing up trolls....

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> *i think calling someone a thief by implying piracy is criminal.* i think
> that is clear.
> if by attacking you mean pointing out when someone is randomly throwing
> accusations about people and criminal intent for setting up a slack
> account. do you not see that? do you all not see that when people are
> allowed to troll that it effects everyone? i have been on this list for
> over 10 years. i can see why there is no traffic on here anymore. i could
> stay and help put rude condescending and outright criminal behavior in
> check. but why, you are all adults.
> i would ask for a consensus on this but i would guess if people speak up
> they would just get flamed and accused of piracy or some other super random
> accusation.
> i wonder what percentage of this list are decent caring people?  anyone
> care to speak up before i move on to other places? why am i attacking
> chuck, bist du blint?
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I was just "subscribed" to SLACK without my doing anything, they got my
>> name wrong, and I have no way to unsubscribe or participate.
>>
>> I'm one of the earliest members here, and have seen other attempts to
>> commandeer the group and change its nature somehow.
>>
>> "Sandwhich Eyes" seems to be a newbie here - on his own podium, and
>> missing a few clues.
>>
>> We had no discussion of SLACK here, and no proposed basis for another
>> group using different software or leadership.
>> This appears to be just-another-piracy-attempt of some sort.
>>
>> Has there been any discussion or preface for this?  My search showed
>> nothing.
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
>> linux.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Coleman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 8:45 AM
>> *To:* TCLUG Mailing List
>> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to
>> TCLUGon Slack
>>
>> I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother.
>>
>> We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are you attacking
>> Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Let me make a few assumptions here.
>> someone offers you an invite to a list.
>> from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief.
>> the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat
>> down, which is the opposite of support.
>> i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why
>> did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have
>> said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is
>> indicative of exactly that.
>> no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be
>> disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you
>> treat people. i am disappointed in you.
>> if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this
>> environment?
>> here is what i propose.
>> this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh
>> start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to
>> their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just
>> ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.
>> when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is
>> even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be
>> implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that
>> would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public
>> to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when
>> it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had
>> suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please
>> don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and
>> it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is
>> good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost
>> too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor.
>> simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site
>> ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain
>> myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of
>> line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to
>> spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other
>> than as a means to beat someone down.
>>
>> and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on
>> you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright
>> and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a
>> day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is
>> good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for
>> questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS.
>>
>> i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and
>> grow. Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain
>> their interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever
>> just don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list.
>> please.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every
>>> time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I
>>> could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has
>>> yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list.
>>> What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing
>>> right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in
>>> front of people; I do still need some level of privacy.
>>> TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The
>>> willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to
>>> let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* feedback at slack.com [mailto:feedback at slack.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
>>>> *Subject:* john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on Slack
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.slack.com/>
>>>> Join TCLUG on Slack
>>>>
>>>> john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and
>>>> has invited you to join the Slack team *TCLUG*.
>>>> Join Team
>>>> <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>>>>
>>>> You may copy/paste this link into your browser:
>>>> https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODA
>>>> yNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4
>>>>
>>>> Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com
>>>> and we?ll respond.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> The team at Slack
>>>>
>>>> Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com/>  ?  Our Blog
>>>> <http://slackhq.com/>
>>>> 155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv>
>>>> from any communication about this email
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sat Sep 17 13:13:34 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 13:13:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHS8K03OeznPaD_u+z1SxRjkF1+FsLfLVPZSMC_Ehbc7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHS8K03OeznPaD_u+z1SxRjkF1+FsLfLVPZSMC_Ehbc7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F2F8F4F-4849-48B9-B138-DB53C779584B@cwis.biz>

Please stop.

We don?t do that here. 


> On Sep 17, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> trolls backing up trolls....
> 
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
> i think calling someone a thief by implying piracy is criminal. i think that is clear. 
> if by attacking you mean pointing out when someone is randomly throwing accusations about people and criminal intent for setting up a slack account. do you not see that? do you all not see that when people are allowed to troll that it effects everyone? i have been on this list for over 10 years. i can see why there is no traffic on here anymore. i could stay and help put rude condescending and outright criminal behavior in check. but why, you are all adults. 
> i would ask for a consensus on this but i would guess if people speak up they would just get flamed and accused of piracy or some other super random accusation.  
> i wonder what percentage of this list are decent caring people?  anyone care to speak up before i move on to other places? why am i attacking chuck, bist du blint?
> 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net <mailto:cncole at earthlink.net>> wrote:
> I was just "subscribed" to SLACK without my doing anything, they got my name wrong, and I have no way to unsubscribe or participate.
>  
> I'm one of the earliest members here, and have seen other attempts to commandeer the group and change its nature somehow.
>  
> "Sandwhich Eyes" seems to be a newbie here - on his own podium, and missing a few clues.
>  
> We had no discussion of SLACK here, and no proposed basis for another group using different software or leadership.
> This appears to be just-another-piracy-attempt of some sort. 
>  
> Has there been any discussion or preface for this?  My search showed nothing.
>  
>  
> Chuck
> 
> From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org>] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 8:45 AM
> To: TCLUG Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com <mailto:john.trammell at gmail.com> invited you to TCLUGon Slack
> 
> I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother.
> 
> We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are you attacking Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Let me make a few assumptions here.
>> someone offers you an invite to a list.
>> from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief. 
>> the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat down, which is the opposite of support.
>> i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is indicative of exactly that. 
>> no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you treat people. i am disappointed in you. 
>> if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this environment?
>> here is what i propose. 
>> this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.
>> when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor. simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other than as a means to beat someone down. 
>> 
>> and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS. 
>> 
>> i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and grow. Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain their interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever  just don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list. please.
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list. 
>> What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in front of people; I do still need some level of privacy. 
>> TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net <mailto:cncole at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
>>  
>> 
>> From: feedback at slack.com <mailto:feedback at slack.com> [mailto:feedback at slack.com <mailto:feedback at slack.com>] 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
>> Subject: john.trammell at gmail.com <mailto:john.trammell at gmail.com> invited you to TCLUG on Slack
>> 
>>  <https://www.slack.com/>
>> Join TCLUG on Slack
>> 
>> john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and has invited you to join the Slack team TCLUG.
>> 
>> Join Team   <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>> You may copy/paste this link into your browser: https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4 <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>> Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com <mailto:feedback at slack.com> and we?ll respond.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> The team at Slack
>> 
>> Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com/>  ?  Our Blog <http://slackhq.com/>
>> 155 5th Street, 6th Floor ??? San Francisco, CA ??? 94103 <>
>> Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv> from any communication about this email
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sat Sep 17 16:26:30 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 21:26:30 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <2F2F8F4F-4849-48B9-B138-DB53C779584B@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHS8K03OeznPaD_u+z1SxRjkF1+FsLfLVPZSMC_Ehbc7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <2F2F8F4F-4849-48B9-B138-DB53C779584B@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20160917212630.GA17311@nobelware.com>

> 
> Please stop.
> 
> We don?t do that here. 
>

Right. So, in other news, the Penguins Unbound meetup today was great.
Patrick Mooney of Joynet presented SmartOS and gave some insight into a lot
of things. https://www.joyent.com/smartos

That was 2 hours very well spent. If you are into virtualization/containers
and the like, you should check out SmartOS (it is open source).

It was also brought to my attention that it is Software Freedom Day today,
the third Saturday of September; http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/

I like this list, but the Penguins are more productive in comparison.


From chapinjeff at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 15:57:44 2016
From: chapinjeff at gmail.com (Jeff Chapin)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 15:57:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>

Bye.

On Sep 17, 2016 11:04 AM, "Sandwhich Eyes" <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com> wrote:

> *i think calling someone a thief by implying piracy is criminal.* i think
> that is clear.
> if by attacking you mean pointing out when someone is randomly throwing
> accusations about people and criminal intent for setting up a slack
> account. do you not see that? do you all not see that when people are
> allowed to troll that it effects everyone? i have been on this list for
> over 10 years. i can see why there is no traffic on here anymore. i could
> stay and help put rude condescending and outright criminal behavior in
> check. but why, you are all adults.
> i would ask for a consensus on this but i would guess if people speak up
> they would just get flamed and accused of piracy or some other super random
> accusation.
> i wonder what percentage of this list are decent caring people?  anyone
> care to speak up before i move on to other places? why am i attacking
> chuck, bist du blint?
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I was just "subscribed" to SLACK without my doing anything, they got my
>> name wrong, and I have no way to unsubscribe or participate.
>>
>> I'm one of the earliest members here, and have seen other attempts to
>> commandeer the group and change its nature somehow.
>>
>> "Sandwhich Eyes" seems to be a newbie here - on his own podium, and
>> missing a few clues.
>>
>> We had no discussion of SLACK here, and no proposed basis for another
>> group using different software or leadership.
>> This appears to be just-another-piracy-attempt of some sort.
>>
>> Has there been any discussion or preface for this?  My search showed
>> nothing.
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-
>> linux.org] *On Behalf Of *Ryan Coleman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 8:45 AM
>> *To:* TCLUG Mailing List
>> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to
>> TCLUGon Slack
>>
>> I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother.
>>
>> We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are you attacking
>> Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Let me make a few assumptions here.
>> someone offers you an invite to a list.
>> from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief.
>> the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat
>> down, which is the opposite of support.
>> i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why
>> did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have
>> said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is
>> indicative of exactly that.
>> no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be
>> disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you
>> treat people. i am disappointed in you.
>> if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this
>> environment?
>> here is what i propose.
>> this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh
>> start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to
>> their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just
>> ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.
>> when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is
>> even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be
>> implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that
>> would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public
>> to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when
>> it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had
>> suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please
>> don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and
>> it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is
>> good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost
>> too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor.
>> simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site
>> ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain
>> myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of
>> line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to
>> spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other
>> than as a means to beat someone down.
>>
>> and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on
>> you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright
>> and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a
>> day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is
>> good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for
>> questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS.
>>
>> i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and
>> grow. Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain
>> their interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever
>> just don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list.
>> please.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every
>>> time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I
>>> could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has
>>> yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list.
>>> What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing
>>> right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in
>>> front of people; I do still need some level of privacy.
>>> TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The
>>> willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to
>>> let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* feedback at slack.com [mailto:feedback at slack.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
>>>> *Subject:* john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUG on Slack
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.slack.com/>
>>>> Join TCLUG on Slack
>>>>
>>>> john.?trammell at gmail.?com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and
>>>> has invited you to join the Slack team *TCLUG*.
>>>> Join Team
>>>> <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>>>>
>>>> You may copy/paste this link into your browser:
>>>> https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODA
>>>> yNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4
>>>>
>>>> Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com
>>>> and we?ll respond.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> The team at Slack
>>>>
>>>> Made by Slack Technologies, Inc <https://slack.com/>  ?  Our Blog
>>>> <http://slackhq.com/>
>>>> 155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv>
>>>> from any communication about this email
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
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From PJ.world at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 20 17:15:14 2016
From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 22:15:14 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to
	TCLUGon	Slack
In-Reply-To: <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Good Riddance


________________________________
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org <tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org> on behalf of Jeff Chapin <chapinjeff at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 3:57 PM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon Slack


Bye.

On Sep 17, 2016 11:04 AM, "Sandwhich Eyes" <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com<mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
i think calling someone a thief by implying piracy is criminal. i think that is clear.
if by attacking you mean pointing out when someone is randomly throwing accusations about people and criminal intent for setting up a slack account. do you not see that? do you all not see that when people are allowed to troll that it effects everyone? i have been on this list for over 10 years. i can see why there is no traffic on here anymore. i could stay and help put rude condescending and outright criminal behavior in check. but why, you are all adults.
i would ask for a consensus on this but i would guess if people speak up they would just get flamed and accused of piracy or some other super random accusation.
i wonder what percentage of this list are decent caring people?  anyone care to speak up before i move on to other places? why am i attacking chuck, bist du blint?


On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net<mailto:cncole at earthlink.net>> wrote:
I was just "subscribed" to SLACK without my doing anything, they got my name wrong, and I have no way to unsubscribe or participate.

I'm one of the earliest members here, and have seen other attempts to commandeer the group and change its nature somehow.

"Sandwhich Eyes" seems to be a newbie here - on his own podium, and missing a few clues.

We had no discussion of SLACK here, and no proposed basis for another group using different software or leadership.
This appears to be just-another-piracy-attempt of some sort.

Has there been any discussion or preface for this?  My search showed nothing.


Chuck

________________________________
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org> [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org>] On Behalf Of Ryan Coleman
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 8:45 AM
To: TCLUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com<mailto:john.trammell at gmail.com> invited you to TCLUGon Slack

I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother.

We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are you attacking Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?



On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com<mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:

Let me make a few assumptions here.
someone offers you an invite to a list.
from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief.
the list has low volume because people who try to do good things get beat down, which is the opposite of support.
i personally would like to know how you ended up calling him a thief. why did you do that chuck? what is going through your mind? you may not have said it in your head when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is indicative of exactly that.
no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom would be disappointed in you, or she should be. you should let her know how you treat people. i am disappointed in you.
if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you ask it in this environment?
here is what i propose.
this new list you were invited to was started to give this list a fresh start and to try and revitalize a list to provide people with answers to their questions and not be afraid to open their email. seriously just ignore things that come in your precious email box if you are offended.
when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no idea why.  it is even more confusing that no one calls you out on this.  you may even be implying that he is a terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that would have come from either. tor is a navy project released to the public to help hide their traffic. so privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when it helps to protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad about ryan so please don't be offended, only trying to point out that tor provides privacy and it is fresh in my mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my stuff as i have lost too much stuff from hard drive errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor. simple hard drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off site ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like i need to explain myself so no one assumes terrible things about me. surely, it isn't out of line to assume that you don't know what you are talking about or how to spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make any sense other than as a means to beat someone down.

and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow tclug user; shame on you...  stand up to cyber bullying or people will think that it is alright and will escalate to the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a day to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all of which is good. that is where all the newbies have gone . This list is now for questions in which you are passionate enough about to push through the BS.

i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to flourish and grow. Hopefully, we can get more people interested in linux and maintain their interest with positive discussions and support. or not, whatever  just don't let people be abusive and get away with it on either list. please.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com<mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for a long time. Every time I ask a simple question and I get More answers and direction than I could hope for. My last question which has been posted in many forums has yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list.
What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy; piracy means stealing right? Did you mean privacy? Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in front of people; I do still need some level of privacy.
TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many backgrounds. The willingness to volunteer knowledge is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to let go even though I am some distance from you all at this point.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net<mailto:cncole at earthlink.net>> wrote:
TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or whatever?


________________________________
From: feedback at slack.com<mailto:feedback at slack.com> [mailto:feedback at slack.com<mailto:feedback at slack.com>]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
Subject: john.trammell at gmail.com<mailto:john.trammell at gmail.com> invited you to TCLUG on Slack

[https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/img/email/slack_logo.png]<https://www.slack.com/>


Join TCLUG on Slack

john.trammell at gmail.com uses Slack, the messaging app for teams, and has invited you to join the Slack team TCLUG.

Join Team <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>

You may copy/paste this link into your browser: https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4

Have a question or need help? Please contact us at feedback at slack.com<mailto:feedback at slack.com> and we?ll respond.

Cheers,
The team at Slack




Made by Slack Technologies, Inc<https://slack.com/>  ?  Our Blog<http://slackhq.com/>
155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ?  San Francisco, CA  ?  94103

Unsubscribe<https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv> from any communication about this email



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list



_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org<mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tompoe at meltel.net  Tue Sep 20 17:27:07 2016
From: tompoe at meltel.net (Tom)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 17:27:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
 Slack
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>

Uncalled for, Paul.  Shame on you.

Tom


On 09/20/2016 05:15 PM, paul g wrote:
>
> Good Riddance
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org 
> <tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org> on behalf of Jeff Chapin 
> <chapinjeff at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 18, 2016 3:57 PM
> *To:* TCLUG Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com invited you to 
> TCLUGon Slack
>
> Bye.
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2016 11:04 AM, "Sandwhich Eyes" <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com 
> <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     _/*i think calling someone a thief by implying piracy is
>     criminal.*/_ i think that is clear.
>     if by attacking you mean pointing out when someone is randomly
>     throwing accusations about people and criminal intent for setting
>     up a slack account. do you not see that? do you all not see that
>     when people are allowed to troll that it effects everyone? i have
>     been on this list for over 10 years. i can see why there is no
>     traffic on here anymore. i could stay and help put rude
>     condescending and outright criminal behavior in check. but why,
>     you are all adults.
>     i would ask for a consensus on this but i would guess if people
>     speak up they would just get flamed and accused of piracy or some
>     other super random accusation.
>     i wonder what percentage of this list are decent caring people? 
>     anyone care to speak up before i move on to other places? why am i
>     attacking chuck, bist du blint?
>
>
>     On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Chuck Cole <cncole at earthlink.net
>     <mailto:cncole at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
>         I was just "subscribed" to SLACK without my doing anything,
>         they got my name wrong, and I have no way to unsubscribe or
>         participate.
>         I'm one of the earliest members here, and have seen other
>         attempts to commandeer the group and change its nature somehow.
>         "Sandwhich Eyes" seems to be a newbie here - on his own
>         podium, and missing a few clues.
>         We had no discussion of SLACK here, and no proposed basis for
>         another group using different software or leadership.
>         This appears to be just-another-piracy-attempt of some sort.
>         Has there been any discussion or preface for this?  My search
>         showed nothing.
>         Chuck
>
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>             *From:* tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>             <mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org>
>             [mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org
>             <mailto:tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org>] *On Behalf Of
>             *Ryan Coleman
>             *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 8:45 AM
>             *To:* TCLUG Mailing List
>             *Subject:* Re: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell at gmail.com
>             <mailto:john.trammell at gmail.com> invited you to TCLUGon Slack
>
>             I think you?ve gone way over the edge on this one, brother.
>
>             We are all free peoples to choose how we wish. But why are
>             you attacking Chuck on his attempt to open a discussion?
>
>
>
>>             On Sep 17, 2016, at 5:01 AM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>             <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Let me make a few assumptions here.
>>             someone offers you an invite to a list.
>>             from that you, chuck cole, call him a thief.
>>             the list has low volume because people who try to do good
>>             things get beat down, which is the opposite of support.
>>             i personally would like to know how you ended up calling
>>             him a thief. why did you do that chuck? what is going
>>             through your mind? you may not have said it in your head
>>             when you wrote it, but clearly your predicate logic is
>>             indicative of exactly that.
>>             no one wants to get beat down by trolls. ever. your mom
>>             would be disappointed in you, or she should be. you
>>             should let her know how you treat people. i am
>>             disappointed in you.
>>             if you had a question about linux as a newbie would you
>>             ask it in this environment?
>>             here is what i propose.
>>             this new list you were invited to was started to give
>>             this list a fresh start and to try and revitalize a list
>>             to provide people with answers to their questions and not
>>             be afraid to open their email. seriously just ignore
>>             things that come in your precious email box if you are
>>             offended.
>>             when he did this he was either called a thief; i have no
>>             idea why.  it is even more confusing that no one calls
>>             you out on this. you may even be implying that he is a
>>             terrorist (if you meant privacy;) not sure where that
>>             would have come from either. tor is a navy project
>>             released to the public to help hide their traffic. so
>>             privacy isn't a bad thing, especially when it helps to
>>             protect our country. (put that in their because ryan had
>>             suggested tor in an old post (not saying anything bad
>>             about ryan so please don't be offended, only trying to
>>             point out that tor provides privacy and it is fresh in my
>>             mind) and while tor is neat and helping our government is
>>             good, i can't handle the latency nor do i encrypt my
>>             stuff as i have lost too much stuff from hard drive
>>             errors (no i don't use raid as i am poor. simple hard
>>             drive backup on occasion and family photos get saved off
>>             site ever 6 months or so.) so i don't use it. I feel like
>>             i need to explain myself so no one assumes terrible
>>             things about me. surely, it isn't out of line to assume
>>             that you don't know what you are talking about or how to
>>             spell privacy instead of piracy. honestly, neither make
>>             any sense other than as a means to beat someone down.
>>
>>             and for those of you who let this man abuse a fellow
>>             tclug user; shame on you... stand up to cyber bullying or
>>             people will think that it is alright and will escalate to
>>             the point that a list will go from 15 or so emails a day
>>             to 1 or 2 a week which mostly contain dissention; not all
>>             of which is good. that is where all the newbies have gone
>>             . This list is now for questions in which you are
>>             passionate enough about to push through the BS.
>>
>>             i hope the list that you were invited to has a chance to
>>             flourish and grow. Hopefully, we can get more people
>>             interested in linux and maintain their interest with
>>             positive discussions and support. or not, whatever just
>>             don't let people be abusive and get away with it on
>>             either list. please.
>>
>>             On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Sandwhich Eyes
>>             <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com
>>             <mailto:sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                 TCLUG is an incredible entity. It is and has been for
>>                 a long time. Every time I ask a simple question and I
>>                 get More answers and direction than I could hope for.
>>                 My last question which has been posted in many forums
>>                 has yet to compare to the answers from this TCLUG list.
>>                 What do you mean by piracy? no one needs piracy;
>>                 piracy means stealing right? Did you mean privacy?
>>                 Yes we need privacy. I don't want to poop in front of
>>                 people; I do still need some level of privacy.
>>                 TCLUG is a true cross section of people from so many
>>                 backgrounds. The willingness to volunteer knowledge
>>                 is unsurpassed. That is why I refuse to let go even
>>                 though I am some distance from you all at this point.
>>
>>                 On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Chuck Cole
>>                 <cncole at earthlink.net <mailto:cncole at earthlink.net>>
>>                 wrote:
>>
>>                     TCLUG isn't broke, IMHO.  Do we need piracy or
>>                     whatever?
>>
>>                     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>                     *From:* feedback at slack.com
>>                     <mailto:feedback at slack.com>
>>                     [mailto:feedback at slack.com
>>                     <mailto:feedback at slack.com>]
>>                     *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 2:48 PM
>>                     *Subject:* john.trammell at gmail.com
>>                     <mailto:john.trammell at gmail.com> invited you to
>>                     TCLUG on Slack
>>
>>                     <https://www.slack.com/>
>>
>>
>>                         Join TCLUG on Slack
>>
>>                     john.trammell at gmail.com uses Slack, the messaging
>>                     app for teams, and has invited you to join the
>>                     Slack team *TCLUG*.
>>
>>                     Join Team
>>                     <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>>
>>
>>                     You may copy/paste this link into your browser:
>>                     https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4
>>                     <https://tclug.slack.com/x-78468710512-80256314498/invite/ODAyNDk0OTQ2NzktMTQ3Mzk2ODg2MC01Mzc0ZWQxNTM4>
>>
>>                     Have a question or need help? Please contact us
>>                     at feedback at slack.com <mailto:feedback at slack.com>
>>                     and we?ll respond.
>>
>>                     Cheers,
>>                     The team at Slack
>>
>>
>>                     Made by Slack Technologies, Inc
>>                     <https://slack.com/>  ? Our Blog
>>                     <http://slackhq.com/>
>>                     155 5th Street, 6th Floor  ? San Francisco, CA
>>                      ?  94103
>>
>>                     Unsubscribe
>>                     <https://slack.com/unsub/80249494679-244e157391-userinv>
>>                     from any communication about this email
>>
>>
>>                     _______________________________________________
>>                     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>                     tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>                     <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>                     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>                     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>>
>>
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>             tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>>             http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>             <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>         tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>         http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>         <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
You cannot be a Republican and support universal health care.  Are you a Republican?

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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Sep 21 08:05:12 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 13:05:12 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
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 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
Message-ID: <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com>

In the good old days of IRC, Sandwich would not have lasted more than 10
minutes in any given chatroom. "Kick-ban" would be the button for him,
mostly for practical reasons. I will not miss the brain-dump paragraphs; it
is easier to insect dumped cores than reading those.

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Wed Sep 21 18:41:56 2016
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 18:41:56 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: sms via hangouts gone?
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9BXqBWvQgX8TBA-spd9BuysyrLTNqCECHiOgbu03Q9Dqg@mail.gmail.com>

i have been enjoying free sms&mms via google voice via hangouts on desktop
firefox google plus and the android hangouts app.  today the "old" desktop
google plus interface is no longer an option.  is sms/mms ability gone now,
or where is it?
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From eng at pinenet.com  Wed Sep 21 22:11:31 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 22:11:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FW: john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
 Slack
In-Reply-To: <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
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 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>

I have been very wrong before, but I give the guy more credit for his 
efforts to grow as an individual. One example mistake was my effort as 
an environmental scientist sitting out here in rural Minnesota and 
trying to get involved with the "Green Party" only to learn they were 
just a bunch of Minneapolis communists full of anger, none an 
environmentalist. I got kicked off their list several times for trying 
to talk about clean air, water, and cellulosic biofuels. They still want 
donations, but most are wolves in sheep clothing. So I'm not a judge of 
anything.

 From my brief reading of his situation, he has a health issue and is 
stuck with 4 little kids to care for alone. He's trying to find out how 
to grow linux skills and become part of a constructive discussion and 
get involved. He vented frustration improperly here, but I also say 
things while picking rock venting frustration that scares my dog. Half 
you urban lunatics drive your car like WMDs. Some rural crazies vent 
frustration shooting off a hundred rounds of automatic ammo. Too many 
others suck drugs containing who knows what.

So (for now) I think he just wanted to find his peers and learn linux in 
a supportive community, and it didn't exist.

BTW, I just figured out why the old XForms toolkit "cursors" demo uses 
modern cursors instead of the old bitmaps. It took me a while to learn 
there is an Xcursor library that automatically searches given directory 
paths for themes and icon files. It won't make "Twitter" headlines, but 
pretty impressive how well designed this linux is.

Iznogoud wrote:
> In the good old days of IRC, Sandwich would not have lasted more than 10
> minutes in any given chatroom. "Kick-ban" would be the button for him,
> mostly for practical reasons. I will not miss the brain-dump paragraphs; it
> is easier to insect dumped cores than reading those.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Sep 22 16:12:43 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:12:43 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>


> On Sep 21, 2016, at 10:11 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> 
> From my brief reading of his situation, he has a health issue and is stuck with 4 little kids to care for alone. 


Agreed. From what I have said back and forth with him privately on the mesh topic he?s got a good idea, he wants to do something and realizes that there could be a cheap solution but there?s more he doesn?t know.

And we all have our setting off item. Some of us have more. Some of us say we have none. But most of us are realistic. 

I won?t defend people?s actions, and I will try NOT to attack others who attack (names held back to not fuel the fire).

But I think there are some that deserve the benefit of the doubt. While Sandwich Eyes probably wouldn?t last there, we can find a place for him here.
And that starts with telling people when they?re either off topic and carry the conversation offline or they?re going off their rocker.

Thankfully many people, regardless of traumatic injury, are capable of stopping when they?re being told they?ve gone too far.



I just hope that others take the lesson, too, and run with it.

?
Ryan
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From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Sep 22 19:00:21 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 19:00:21 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>

Not to prolong my preaching here, but I think angry and judgmental has 
become the new normal. As an oldster, I don't get the tattoo rage or the 
skull and crossbones Tshirts or the ear-rings in the tongue.

Hopefully, I'll do cement in the morning for a project that might 
generate electric power from biofuel before I'm 200 years old. I'll 
count on Linux somewhere in the feedback loop because what else is 
there?? I feel lucky for opportunities never imagined, and really wish 
to hear what some others imagine.

Ryan Coleman wrote:
>
>> On Sep 21, 2016, at 10:11 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com 
>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>
>> From my brief reading of his situation, he has a health issue and is 
>> stuck with 4 little kids to care for alone.
>
>
> Agreed. From what I have said back and forth with him privately on the 
> mesh topic he?s got a good idea, he wants to do something and realizes 
> that there could be a cheap solution but there?s more he doesn?t know.
>
> And we all have our setting off item. Some of us have more. Some of us 
> say we have none. But most of us are realistic.
>
> I won?t defend people?s actions, and I will try NOT to attack others 
> who attack (names held back to not fuel the fire).
>
> But I think there are some that deserve the benefit of the doubt. 
> While Sandwich Eyes probably wouldn?t last there, we can find a place 
> for him here.
> And that starts with telling people when they?re either off topic and 
> carry the conversation offline or they?re going off their rocker.
>
> Thankfully many people, regardless of traumatic injury, are capable of 
> stopping when they?re being told they?ve gone too far.
>
>
>
> I just hope that others take the lesson, too, and run with it.
>
> ?
> Ryan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Thu Sep 22 20:34:59 2016
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 20:34:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com>
 <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com> <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> Not to prolong my preaching here, but I think angry and judgmental has
> become the new normal. As an oldster, I don't get the tattoo rage or the
> skull and crossbones Tshirts or the ear-rings in the tongue.
>
> Hopefully, I'll do cement in the morning for a project that might generate
> electric power from biofuel before I'm 200 years old. I'll count on Linux
> somewhere in the feedback loop because what else is there?? I feel lucky for
> opportunities never imagined, and really wish to hear what some others
> imagine.

I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on and looking at
working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like hearing it
a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).

Dee

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Sep 23 16:30:42 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:30:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>


> On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:34 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on and looking at
> working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like hearing it
> a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).

It?s for reasons such as yours that I am going to run away to the woods of Cook County next week for 7 days and hope that maybe, just maybe, a bear decides I?d make a good playmate and invite me to hibernate with it.

From jmk+tclug at jameskaufman.org  Fri Sep 23 17:59:52 2016
From: jmk+tclug at jameskaufman.org (James Kaufman)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 17:59:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>

On 09/23/2016 04:30 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:34 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on and looking at
>> working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like hearing it
>> a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).
> It?s for reasons such as yours that I am going to run away to the woods of Cook County next week for 7 days and hope that maybe, just maybe, a bear decides I?d make a good playmate and invite me to hibernate with it.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

Cook County has bears?


Jim


From eng at pinenet.com  Fri Sep 23 18:18:38 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:18:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <57E5B84E.8090009@pinenet.com>

May I suggest that when you "light" your wood campfire you consider that 
you are watching "photochemistry." Converting increasingly abundant 
(more atmospheric CO2) "biomass" cellulose into "advanced biofuel" is an 
international priority, given climate concerns that have gotten 
politically overheated. And that black wood charcoal residue (biochar) 
is regarded a soil fertility enhancer as well as a method to "sequester 
carbon." Copy fire, like the nervous system was copied.

Personally, I think using solar energy input to gasify the biomass, and 
using the enhanced fuel energy to run standard car 12V generation, is a 
good gimmick. Even "Intel" likes 12V. A Linux junkie has played with all 
of this stuff.

The political over-achievers think there is a few $billion floating 
around among the planet's 7 billion people. Nice to see Minnesota be a 
leader.

Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:34 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on and looking at
>> working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like hearing it
>> a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).
> It?s for reasons such as yours that I am going to run away to the woods of Cook County next week for 7 days and hope that maybe, just maybe, a bear decides I?d make a good playmate and invite me to hibernate with it.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Sep 23 19:10:09 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 19:10:09 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
 <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
Message-ID: <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>

Uhm? Yes?  I?ll be between Devils Track Lake and the Canadian Border somewhere (don?t need no TCLUG stalkers now?)

But I have seen bears at the old rented family cabin for years in the 80s and 90s and also a few counties over to the west.

And if you?re thinking Cook County in Illinois? they might play like peewees but the Chicago Bears are a thing? :)



> On Sep 23, 2016, at 5:59 PM, James Kaufman <jmk+tclug at jameskaufman.org> wrote:
> 
> On 09/23/2016 04:30 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:34 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on and looking at
>>> working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like hearing it
>>> a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).
>> It?s for reasons such as yours that I am going to run away to the woods of Cook County next week for 7 days and hope that maybe, just maybe, a bear decides I?d make a good playmate and invite me to hibernate with it.
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> Cook County has bears?
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Sep 24 08:14:35 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:14:35 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com>
 <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com> <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
 <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
 <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>

Electrolysis, because water and electricity are fun together. I have made
hydrogen by mixing aluminum and lime with water. I would like to learn how
to compress the gas into liquid and to turn it back into water.

I also like the video of the guy who takes the gasifyer plans from fema and
uses the gas from burnt wood to run a generator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6e3CprVTi8

I wish I had some cash and a friend to do some experiments. And a basic mad
scientist lab setup....

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

> Uhm? Yes?  I?ll be between Devils Track Lake and the Canadian Border
> somewhere (don?t need no TCLUG stalkers now?)
>
> But I have seen bears at the old rented family cabin for years in the 80s
> and 90s and also a few counties over to the west.
>
> And if you?re thinking Cook County in Illinois? they might play like
> peewees but the Chicago Bears are a thing? :)
>
>
>
> > On Sep 23, 2016, at 5:59 PM, James Kaufman <jmk+tclug at jameskaufman.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 09/23/2016 04:30 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> >>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:34 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on and
> looking at
> >>> working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like hearing
> it
> >>> a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).
> >> It?s for reasons such as yours that I am going to run away to the woods
> of Cook County next week for 7 days and hope that maybe, just maybe, a bear
> decides I?d make a good playmate and invite me to hibernate with it.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> > Cook County has bears?
> >
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From sandwhicheyes at gmail.com  Sat Sep 24 08:25:20 2016
From: sandwhicheyes at gmail.com (Sandwhich Eyes)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:25:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com>
 <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com> <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
 <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
 <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+G9TOH_p1RVdoH0OAMcxsyXvW2soquEM=0PJEbRmchWC88QuA@mail.gmail.com>

We have bears that wander into town all the time. One of our usuals had
just got taken down by a hunter. We also have Amish going by in horse and
buggies throughout the day....   Very country.

Oh, and also we have the Blair Eagle cam:


*http://www.eagles4kids.com/ <http://www.eagles4kids.com/>*
I already have a cave to hibernate in, right next to where I buried my bug
out bag and extra phone...

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 8:14 AM, Sandwhich Eyes <sandwhicheyes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Electrolysis, because water and electricity are fun together. I have made
> hydrogen by mixing aluminum and lime with water. I would like to learn how
> to compress the gas into liquid and to turn it back into water.
>
> I also like the video of the guy who takes the gasifyer plans from fema
> and uses the gas from burnt wood to run a generator.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6e3CprVTi8
>
> I wish I had some cash and a friend to do some experiments. And a basic
> mad scientist lab setup....
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
> wrote:
>
>> Uhm? Yes?  I?ll be between Devils Track Lake and the Canadian Border
>> somewhere (don?t need no TCLUG stalkers now?)
>>
>> But I have seen bears at the old rented family cabin for years in the 80s
>> and 90s and also a few counties over to the west.
>>
>> And if you?re thinking Cook County in Illinois? they might play like
>> peewees but the Chicago Bears are a thing? :)
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 23, 2016, at 5:59 PM, James Kaufman <jmk+tclug at jameskaufman.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 09/23/2016 04:30 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> >>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:34 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on and
>> looking at
>> >>> working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like hearing
>> it
>> >>> a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).
>> >> It?s for reasons such as yours that I am going to run away to the
>> woods of Cook County next week for 7 days and hope that maybe, just maybe,
>> a bear decides I?d make a good playmate and invite me to hibernate with it.
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>> > Cook County has bears?
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
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From eng at pinenet.com  Sat Sep 24 08:42:57 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:42:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
 <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
 <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57E682E1.5010206@pinenet.com>

This is where I get off the train.

I spent a decade as a real Biophysical Chemist after decades competing 
with serious students from around the world for many years. Now, every 
Tom, Dick and Harry is a renewable energy expert.

There is something very special about quantum physics, optics, photons 
from the sun's surface, the structure of cellulose, etc. There is a 
reason fiber optics made a better network. There is a reason fire is 
derived from optical excitation energy. I put something on his board I 
think is important and some might look into. Not preempt.


Sandwhich Eyes wrote:
> Electrolysis, because water and electricity are fun together. I have 
> made hydrogen by mixing aluminum and lime with water. I would like to 
> learn how to compress the gas into liquid and to turn it back into water.
>
> I also like the video of the guy who takes the gasifyer plans from 
> fema and uses the gas from burnt wood to run a generator.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6e3CprVTi8
>
> I wish I had some cash and a friend to do some experiments. And a 
> basic mad scientist lab setup....
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz 
> <mailto:ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>> wrote:
>
>     Uhm
 Yes
 I?ll be between Devils Track Lake and the Canadian
>     Border somewhere (don?t need no TCLUG stalkers now
)
>
>     But I have seen bears at the old rented family cabin for years in
>     the 80s and 90s and also a few counties over to the west.
>
>     And if you?re thinking Cook County in Illinois
 they might play
>     like peewees but the Chicago Bears are a thing
 :)
>
>
>
>     > On Sep 23, 2016, at 5:59 PM, James Kaufman
>     <jmk+tclug at jameskaufman.org <mailto:jmk%2Btclug at jameskaufman.org>>
>     wrote:
>     >
>     > On 09/23/2016 04:30 PM, Ryan Coleman wrote:
>     >>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:34 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com
>     <mailto:o1bigtenor at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>> I'm sort of scared to give a list of what all I'm working on
>     and looking at
>     >>> working on. I've been called crazy far too many times to like
>     hearing it
>     >>> a bunch more - - - grin!!! (Its a LONG list!).
>     >> It?s for reasons such as yours that I am going to run away to
>     the woods of Cook County next week for 7 days and hope that maybe,
>     just maybe, a bear decides I?d make a good playmate and invite me
>     to hibernate with it.
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>     >
>     > Cook County has bears?
>     >
>     >
>     > Jim
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sat Sep 24 12:30:06 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 12:30:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <57E682E1.5010206@pinenet.com>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHqD5=hxLP25kXxWHrgR3DdYh+D9rq=mD83HL2RjcVFcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
 <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
 <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57E682E1.5010206@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <017991C5-BFC3-499A-9AA6-D83E069DD3DE@cwis.biz>

I don?t know how/where this got here.

Can we all just stop?


> On Sep 24, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> 
> I spent a decade as a real Biophysical Chemist after decades competing with serious students from around the world for many years. Now, every Tom, Dick and Harry is a renewable energy expert.
> 
> There is something very special about quantum physics, optics, photons from the sun's surface, the structure of cellulose, etc. There is a reason fiber optics made a better network. There is a reason fire is derived from optical excitation energy. I put something on his board I think is important and some might look into. Not preempt.

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From eng at pinenet.com  Sat Sep 24 13:25:57 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 13:25:57 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <017991C5-BFC3-499A-9AA6-D83E069DD3DE@cwis.biz>
References: <86EEA849908040B6ADD921FA97D464B1@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOHxsXyx6Zrw5_VNsxxjq=Yfh5BJ+jcTd6+FeBcvtP5Exw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1E279B1C-E706-421E-A032-7F82AF0943DA@cwis.biz>
 <42F70C295BBB463B89C49025B1BFC3D7@D830B>
 <CA+G9TOGfrDQB2jbGYFqHEZ1V6_05D-5eWYbsN688mj29NX=Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJt84+Nv+nLmDy_DAV8tyHpAi-WeUE50cv+PQ72euc0JcsbRaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BN6PR13MB100993136E685DB815B171ED99F70@BN6PR13MB1009.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <3127c3fa-607c-10d2-b361-9a4afaf37b40@meltel.net>
 <20160921130512.GA24435@nobelware.com> <57E34BE3.7030707@pinenet.com>
 <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
 <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
 <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57E682E1.5010206@pinenet.com>
 <017991C5-BFC3-499A-9AA6-D83E069DD3DE@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <57E6C535.1010903@pinenet.com>

In various emails I've asked if anybody knew some Linux skills for a 
project of serious importance and value.

1. Does anybody know how to seriously trim the Linux kernel and 
configure it for close to real-time driver response?? Apparently, it is 
agreed here we must all just accept current distros.

2. Does anybody know how to use a simplified XWindow toolkit for close 
to real-time response?? Apparently, some feel OpenGl or some network 
add-ons is the GUI of choice.

3. I've suggested car analyzers as an interesting, useful Linux 
beginning application. And some programming languages that might be helpful.

4. And finally I suggested a technology that is currently mandated in US 
federal law and advocated by United Nations environmental agreements as 
recently as this year in Paris. I actually understated the claim of many 
world leaders who say $trillions must be invested promptly, and instead 
said $billions.

Don't make it sound as if I've annoyed you by trying to create jobs and 
revenue in the US. Hey, we're broke and at war.

Ryan Coleman wrote:
> I don?t know how/where this got here.
>
> Can we all just stop?
>
>
>> On Sep 24, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com 
>> <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I spent a decade as a real Biophysical Chemist after decades 
>> competing with serious students from around the world for many years. 
>> Now, every Tom, Dick and Harry is a renewable energy expert.
>>
>> There is something very special about quantum physics, optics, 
>> photons from the sun's surface, the structure of cellulose, etc. 
>> There is a reason fiber optics made a better network. There is a 
>> reason fire is derived from optical excitation energy. I put 
>> something on his board I think is important and some might look into. 
>> Not preempt.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sat Sep 24 23:36:20 2016
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 04:36:20 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] john.trammell@gmail.com invited you to TCLUGon
	Slack
In-Reply-To: <57E6C535.1010903@pinenet.com>
References: <76119FB7-AF16-486B-A7CF-17E811BC85F3@cwis.biz>
 <57E47095.2010103@pinenet.com>
 <CAPpdf59_RtxH-jEzrUzBVd5WYxWMFD-LhN5L6cZrBNHn2rt7aQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0151C0F0-E266-4F9F-AA7A-3A0F4AB8DB67@cwis.biz>
 <727d7e6e-1265-a738-c719-106da8d0b130@jameskaufman.org>
 <2354C2F8-A2F0-40C7-A2A6-2A94D0F8E566@cwis.biz>
 <CA+G9TOHwKkMNc0c=1rOxsPyJ=_vGzWrwJ4-nFPdz0sOqQ0sr8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <57E682E1.5010206@pinenet.com>
 <017991C5-BFC3-499A-9AA6-D83E069DD3DE@cwis.biz>
 <57E6C535.1010903@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20160925043620.GA20172@nobelware.com>

*Takes big breath*

> 1. Does anybody know how to seriously trim the Linux kernel and 
> configure it for close to real-time driver response?? Apparently, it is 
> agreed here we must all just accept current distros.
>

I can help you configure a kernel to have minimal functionality. It is not
that hard. It will still be a protected OS with access permissions and proper
scheduling. And it does not mean that it will not be a good real-time system.

If your task is sufficiently simple, you can do it with a microcontroller
which is a lot more robust and a lot more suitable for real-time systems.
I coded an audio pipeline based on ALSA and POSIX threads and the real-timeness
of it is remarkable. I was shooting for a real-time audio sequencer.


> 2. Does anybody know how to use a simplified XWindow toolkit for close 
> to real-time response?? Apparently, some feel OpenGl or some network 
> add-ons is the GUI of choice.
>

Yes. You need to decouple the graphics from the "engine" of what you are
trying to do. I can do it with POSIX threads. What you really want is to not
have the graphics (and whatever lag goes with processing events) affect your
real-time performance of the engine. It can be done. It is a question of
architecting the communication of the engine thread with the graphics thread.
I like to do stuff like that with unix pipes, where you have one thread write
into the pipe and the other one read it. The reason is that you can leave the
data waiting there (buffered) if the thread that is intended to read it does
not get to it at the right time. It avoids MUTEXes, which would give you
stalls and kill your real-timeness. Does all this make sense? I can provide
with example code in C.

 
> 3. I've suggested car analyzers as an interesting, useful Linux 
> beginning application. And some programming languages that might be helpful.
>

Embedded systems are mostly state machines and that is what microcontrollers
are. There are a LOT of people who program real-time systems on off-the-shelf
microcontrollers, and I can introduce you to some of them. Car analyzers, the
way I understand your terminology, can be either an embedded system or a proper
OS. I have examples for both. Go to www.nefmoto.com and you will find both.


I can spare little time to work on other people's projects, but I can certainly
try to point you in the right direction if it is something that falls within
my reach. That is what lists like this one are about...


From droidjd at gmail.com  Sun Sep 25 00:32:20 2016
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 05:32:20 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: sms via hangouts gone?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9BXqBWvQgX8TBA-spd9BuysyrLTNqCECHiOgbu03Q9Dqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9BXqBWvQgX8TBA-spd9BuysyrLTNqCECHiOgbu03Q9Dqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdxDVbHwjXsskyzGjKj0qxfSA=XKgzD+Sep+uioBJF-LjA@mail.gmail.com>

I use the Hangouts plugin for Chrome, but I just checked if it was an
option within the gmail interface and it is!  You just have to create a
conversation with a contact and then click the SMS icon at the top of the
conversation.  At some point a year ago or so, they tried to clumsely merge
Hangouts and SMS conversations.  I actually preferred it when they were
merged, but it looks like they rolled that back now.  *shrugs*  In any
case, hope that helps!


[image: Capture.PNG]

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 6:42 PM gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:

> i have been enjoying free sms&mms via google voice via hangouts on desktop
> firefox google plus and the android hangouts app.  today the "old" desktop
> google plus interface is no longer an option.  is sms/mms ability gone now,
> or where is it?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From kellywilliams81 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 25 13:12:31 2016
From: kellywilliams81 at gmail.com (Kelly Williams)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 13:12:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
Message-ID: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>

Are there any good Wyiswig editors for Linux..

Kelly
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Sep 25 13:15:50 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 13:15:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
In-Reply-To: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E2DCA2A9-76D5-4FFF-9229-518EB1A9C48A@cwis.biz>

I won?t have answer for you but what particular support do you need? PHP? CSS? Javascript? ASP? JSP?


> On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Kelly Williams <kellywilliams81 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Are there any good Wyiswig editors for Linux..
> 
> Kelly
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From kellywilliams81 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 25 13:24:14 2016
From: kellywilliams81 at gmail.com (Kelly Williams)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 13:24:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
In-Reply-To: <E2DCA2A9-76D5-4FFF-9229-518EB1A9C48A@cwis.biz>
References: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E2DCA2A9-76D5-4FFF-9229-518EB1A9C48A@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CALkoPAqaQdzfZCTTcAQFtdskyKUJLiQVE9wtTFcHU+LYvkVG7Q@mail.gmail.com>

HTML and CSS and some javascript. I been doing it by Microsoft expression
but I been wanting to do it on my linux box, thats mostly the only thing
thats been holding me to Windows is the web editor.

Kelly

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

> I won?t have answer for you but what particular support do you need? PHP?
> CSS? Javascript? ASP? JSP?
>
>
> > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Kelly Williams <kellywilliams81 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Are there any good Wyiswig editors for Linux..
> >
> > Kelly
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Sun Sep 25 14:26:00 2016
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 14:26:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
In-Reply-To: <CALkoPAqaQdzfZCTTcAQFtdskyKUJLiQVE9wtTFcHU+LYvkVG7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E2DCA2A9-76D5-4FFF-9229-518EB1A9C48A@cwis.biz>
 <CALkoPAqaQdzfZCTTcAQFtdskyKUJLiQVE9wtTFcHU+LYvkVG7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <205B746F-8FDD-4FA5-B7BF-1FCAECAF27D5@cwis.biz>

Not supporting any of these, because I am not a developer that works in a Linux GUI environment but I would suggest at least running through a few from a google query.

http://webdesign.about.com/od/htmleditors/tp/Free-HTML-Editors-Linux-UNIX.htm <http://webdesign.about.com/od/htmleditors/tp/Free-HTML-Editors-Linux-UNIX.htm>

Because you?re not talking about specialized platforms the sky is your limit. Try one. If you don?t like it try another. I?ve used a total of 4 across two platforms in the last 20 years.


> On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Kelly Williams <kellywilliams81 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> HTML and CSS and some javascript. I been doing it by Microsoft expression but I been wanting to do it on my linux box, thats mostly the only thing thats been holding me to Windows is the web editor. 
> 
> Kelly 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz <mailto:ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>> wrote:
> I won?t have answer for you but what particular support do you need? PHP? CSS? Javascript? ASP? JSP?
> 
> 
> > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Kelly Williams <kellywilliams81 at gmail.com <mailto:kellywilliams81 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Are there any good Wyiswig editors for Linux..
> >
> > Kelly
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Sep 25 16:52:20 2016
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 16:52:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: sms via hangouts gone?
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9ANEoH9bb6M1eq1JY7uq3barLn0_98kLgOGRC5PmFFqqg@mail.gmail.com>

i was using hangouts in plus.google.com, goo+ new dumbified interface
excludes hangouts, but i found hangouts extensions for both ff & chrome, so
back in bizyness
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Sun Sep 25 18:19:00 2016
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 18:19:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
In-Reply-To: <205B746F-8FDD-4FA5-B7BF-1FCAECAF27D5@cwis.biz>
References: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E2DCA2A9-76D5-4FFF-9229-518EB1A9C48A@cwis.biz>
 <CALkoPAqaQdzfZCTTcAQFtdskyKUJLiQVE9wtTFcHU+LYvkVG7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <205B746F-8FDD-4FA5-B7BF-1FCAECAF27D5@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <1474845540.3389.3.camel@pureice.com>

Another few worth mentioning: SciTE, atom, and sublime.
On Sun, 2016-09-25 at 14:26 -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> Not supporting any of these, because I am not a developer that works
> in a Linux GUI environment but I would suggest at least running
> through a few from a google query.
> 
> http://webdesign.about.com/od/htmleditors/tp/Free-HTML-Editors-Linux-
> UNIX.htm
> 
> Because you?re not talking about specialized platforms the sky is
> your limit. Try one. If you don?t like it try another. I?ve used a
> total of 4 across two platforms in the last 20 years.
> 
> 
> > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Kelly Williams 
> > com> wrote:
> > 
> > HTML and CSS and some javascript. I been doing it by Microsoft
> > expression but I been wanting to do it on my linux box, thats
> > mostly the only thing thats been holding me to Windows is the web
> > editor.?
> > 
> > Kelly?
> > 
> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Ryan Coleman 
> > z> wrote:
> > > I won?t have answer for you but what particular support do you
> > > need? PHP? CSS? Javascript? ASP? JSP?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Kelly Williams 
> > > ail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are there any good Wyiswig editors for Linux..
> > > >
> > > > Kelly
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Sun Sep 25 18:23:22 2016
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 18:23:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
In-Reply-To: <205B746F-8FDD-4FA5-B7BF-1FCAECAF27D5@cwis.biz>
References: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E2DCA2A9-76D5-4FFF-9229-518EB1A9C48A@cwis.biz>
 <CALkoPAqaQdzfZCTTcAQFtdskyKUJLiQVE9wtTFcHU+LYvkVG7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <205B746F-8FDD-4FA5-B7BF-1FCAECAF27D5@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <1474845802.3389.4.camel@pureice.com>

Forgot to mention brackets?http://brackets.io/
On Sun, 2016-09-25 at 14:26 -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> Not supporting any of these, because I am not a developer that works
> in a Linux GUI environment but I would suggest at least running
> through a few from a google query.
> 
> http://webdesign.about.com/od/htmleditors/tp/Free-HTML-Editors-Linux-
> UNIX.htm
> 
> Because you?re not talking about specialized platforms the sky is
> your limit. Try one. If you don?t like it try another. I?ve used a
> total of 4 across two platforms in the last 20 years.
> 
> 
> > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Kelly Williams 
> > com> wrote:
> > 
> > HTML and CSS and some javascript. I been doing it by Microsoft
> > expression but I been wanting to do it on my linux box, thats
> > mostly the only thing thats been holding me to Windows is the web
> > editor.?
> > 
> > Kelly?
> > 
> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Ryan Coleman 
> > z> wrote:
> > > I won?t have answer for you but what particular support do you
> > > need? PHP? CSS? Javascript? ASP? JSP?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Kelly Williams 
> > > ail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are there any good Wyiswig editors for Linux..
> > > >
> > > > Kelly
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Sun Sep 25 18:43:46 2016
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 18:43:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
In-Reply-To: <1474845802.3389.4.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CALkoPArOpTPnjCNANbpa9P0NUuNbXfMVjVoT2473pPLGOULvDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E2DCA2A9-76D5-4FFF-9229-518EB1A9C48A@cwis.biz>
 <CALkoPAqaQdzfZCTTcAQFtdskyKUJLiQVE9wtTFcHU+LYvkVG7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <205B746F-8FDD-4FA5-B7BF-1FCAECAF27D5@cwis.biz>
 <1474845802.3389.4.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <1474847026.3389.6.camel@pureice.com>

MS Visual Studio Code is available for Debian and CentOS distributions,
if you're not opposed to running MS anything on your linux box.
https://code.visualstudio.com/c?utm_expid=101350005-28.R1T8FshdTBWEfZjY
0s7XKQ.2&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fweb-design-
weekly.com%2F2015%2F07%2F30%2Fatom-vs-sublime%2F
On Sun, 2016-09-25 at 18:23 -0500, r hayman wrote:
> Forgot to mention brackets?http://brackets.io/
> 
> On Sun, 2016-09-25 at 14:26 -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote:
> > Not supporting any of these, because I am not a developer that
> > works in a Linux GUI environment but I would suggest at least
> > running through a few from a google query.
> > 
> > http://webdesign.about.com/od/htmleditors/tp/Free-HTML-Editors-Linu
> > x-UNIX.htm
> > 
> > Because you?re not talking about specialized platforms the sky is
> > your limit. Try one. If you don?t like it try another. I?ve used a
> > total of 4 across two platforms in the last 20 years.
> > 
> > 
> > > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:24 PM, Kelly Williams 
> > > l.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > HTML and CSS and some javascript. I been doing it by Microsoft
> > > expression but I been wanting to do it on my linux box, thats
> > > mostly the only thing thats been holding me to Windows is the web
> > > editor.?
> > > 
> > > Kelly?
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Ryan Coleman 
> > > biz> wrote:
> > > > I won?t have answer for you but what particular support do you
> > > > need? PHP? CSS? Javascript? ASP? JSP?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > On Sep 25, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Kelly Williams 
> > > > gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there any good Wyiswig editors for Linux..
> > > > >
> > > > > Kelly
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From eng at pinenet.com  Sun Sep 25 19:36:38 2016
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 19:36:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] embedded Linux
Message-ID: <57E86D96.8080805@pinenet.com>

Thanks Iznogoud. A google search of "embedded linux" came up with an 
Intel ad first. The Wikipedia link begins with a remarkable list of 
current embedded linux uses. All I suggested was adding consideration of 
some developing energy technology systems. I have a lot of catching up 
to do, I like the linux tools I'm currently using, and am interested in 
learning more. I'll have more time later, but it would be nice to see 
more discussion of this topic within the TCLUG. Take care. 
============================================================== *Takes 
big breath*

> 1. Does anybody know how to seriously trim the Linux kernel and
> configure it for close to real-time driver response?? Apparently, it is
> agreed here we must all just accept current distros.
>
I can help you configure a kernel to have minimal functionality. It is not
that hard. It will still be a protected OS with access permissions and proper
scheduling. And it does not mean that it will not be a good real-time system.

If your task is sufficiently simple, you can do it with a microcontroller
which is a lot more robust and a lot more suitable for real-time systems.
I coded an audio pipeline based on ALSA and POSIX threads and the real-timeness
of it is remarkable. I was shooting for a real-time audio sequencer.


> 2. Does anybody know how to use a simplified XWindow toolkit for close
> to real-time response?? Apparently, some feel OpenGl or some network
> add-ons is the GUI of choice.
>
Yes. You need to decouple the graphics from the "engine" of what you are
trying to do. I can do it with POSIX threads. What you really want is to not
have the graphics (and whatever lag goes with processing events) affect your
real-time performance of the engine. It can be done. It is a question of
architecting the communication of the engine thread with the graphics thread.
I like to do stuff like that with unix pipes, where you have one thread write
into the pipe and the other one read it. The reason is that you can leave the
data waiting there (buffered) if the thread that is intended to read it does
not get to it at the right time. It avoids MUTEXes, which would give you
stalls and kill your real-timeness. Does all this make sense? I can provide
with example code in C.

  

> 3. I've suggested car analyzers as an interesting, useful Linux
> beginning application. And some programming languages that might be helpful.
>
Embedded systems are mostly state machines and that is what microcontrollers
are. There are a LOT of people who program real-time systems on off-the-shelf
microcontrollers, and I can introduce you to some of them. Car analyzers, the
way I understand your terminology, can be either an embedded system or a proper
OS. I have examples for both. Go towww.nefmoto.com  and you will find both.


I can spare little time to work on other people's projects, but I can certainly
try to point you in the right direction if it is something that falls within
my reach. That is what lists like this one are about...

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From n0nas at amsat.org  Sun Sep 25 19:52:50 2016
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 19:52:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] webediting
Message-ID: <CAL+RLOQhoXHCV+uK7Kk8+gxT9LcKw18w=2kNYk39k3XmZ8REbw@mail.gmail.com>

I've used SeaMonkey from Mozilla for simple web page editing but I
don't know if it will do what you want. My needs have been very
basic.....
Doug.

-- 
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

"When seconds count, help is only minutes away."
Does Gun Control protect you, the criminal, or the Government?

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Sep 29 20:45:04 2016
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 20:45:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] OT: sms via hangouts gone?
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Cx-i-1=r=tR8H_0nSZZ6b_Z=d5B01Xh0fNFfGjCn+M2g@mail.gmail.com>

and now i see i can just use hangouts.google.com, no extensions needed, no
plus.google.com needed.  well shucks.  simple is good.
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