From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Aug  1 00:45:29 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 00:45:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Amazon's Fire HD 8
In-Reply-To: <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
References: <CALuKVvu+CmVw2vOnpVHR_cTFX6BvTcrw4mg44xQER6tvaFx8RA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvtTnOYoXdiJncg_ZqmaS_noxEbSdt49_+abWJR6W+yfLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707172337450.10566@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <20170718163705.GB23603@nobelware.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707181153360.11388@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALuKVvsT_rMNM+MTpFqrgduWqiFjLdTqO5eW7o9MZfD7xAab=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvvS4uWdkmf9v7tGW0PwH086wr_2ZYVK9P7f2Jk194cxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvuGJOaC27Km8cY41sFk0VSZxPC96tC-y+Vd0O3qcb1Lbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170731180739.GA31053@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the info, Steve.  I'll be giving it a try, too.

Yeah, a 1920x1080 smartphone could be hard on the eyes, to say the
least.  Maybe it's a little easier on a Fire HD 8.  Also, you can
usually change fonts and icon sizes in Linux, so that could help.

I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?

Mike

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> Oh man, it pains me to think of using a terminal on a smartphone for anything
> more than one command! My eyes would totally suck at this, as would my fingers.
>
> It did help to be able to SSH to my iphone and do some tweaking from a proper
> system when I had to.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From stevetrapp at comcast.net  Tue Aug  1 11:47:25 2017
From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:47:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALuKVvtTnOYoXdiJncg_ZqmaS_noxEbSdt49_+abWJR6W+yfLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707172337450.10566@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <20170718163705.GB23603@nobelware.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707181153360.11388@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALuKVvsT_rMNM+MTpFqrgduWqiFjLdTqO5eW7o9MZfD7xAab=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvvS4uWdkmf9v7tGW0PwH086wr_2ZYVK9P7f2Jk194cxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvuGJOaC27Km8cY41sFk0VSZxPC96tC-y+Vd0O3qcb1Lbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170731180739.GA31053@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170801164725.GA20633@dog.cavelan.local>

I think my smartphone has a 5.1_inch display.

I mostly use Android apps, of course, on my Samsung Galaxy S7. But I do run
GNURoot-Debian for the following applications and don't use any andoid app for
these:
: ssh
: scp
: sftp
: Reluctanly, I use it" for access to my comcast.net-sited "email". (It's
  better than nothing when you didn't bring your laptop with you).
[Note: add your favorite computers' IP addresses to GNURoot-path
/etc/hosts--Android seems to not do DNS well--at least within GNURoot?!]

So I use GNURoot for all file transfers to/from my {laptop, desktop} from/to my
< allegedly smart >-phone, and SSH-ing.

And that is mostly it. I can, however, put a few of my relative seldom used
homebrewed C programs on it, if I find they're at all useful (and they can't
do X11...). I just haven't got around to it yet.

Plus, I'm planning on putting a bunch of data on the smarty-pants-phone
so I have that data at my fingertips. Haven't got around to this, either, yet.

Lastly, I can also ssh to my desktop (typically the laptop isn't "on" 24 hours
but the desktop is) if I don't have my laptop with me, I can still get access
to my desktop-Linux/GNU-Box for, say, a file or a line of information from a
file.

And, I have a crude app to get my POP3 email on my desktop to send the HTML
version of the email to the phone so I can read it. I did this with mutt,
and liberal use of nc (nc is netcat) in /bin/sh scripts.

Of course all of this stinks, because the keyboard has to be so small.
But it works well enough.

I did once figure out how to make my Linux laptop act as a Bluetooth keyboard,
but unfortunately I didn't write the procedure down. I am interested in trying
it again soon, however, because of another problem, namely, I'm all over on
communications and it is **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator).
So a real keyboard would make it much easier to write messages, emails,
even a GNURoot session.

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> Thanks for the info, Steve.  I'll be giving it a try, too.
> 
> Yeah, a 1920x1080 smartphone could be hard on the eyes, to say the
> least.  Maybe it's a little easier on a Fire HD 8.  Also, you can
> usually change fonts and icon sizes in Linux, so that could help.
> 
> I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> > Oh man, it pains me to think of using a terminal on a smartphone for anything
> > more than one command! My eyes would totally suck at this, as would my fingers.
> >
> > It did help to be able to SSH to my iphone and do some tweaking from a proper
> > system when I had to.
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
Name: Steve Trapp
Location: Just east of the Missippi River
Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Aug  1 12:06:45 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:06:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <20170801164725.GA20633@dog.cavelan.local>
References: <CALuKVvtTnOYoXdiJncg_ZqmaS_noxEbSdt49_+abWJR6W+yfLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707172337450.10566@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <20170718163705.GB23603@nobelware.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707181153360.11388@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALuKVvsT_rMNM+MTpFqrgduWqiFjLdTqO5eW7o9MZfD7xAab=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvvS4uWdkmf9v7tGW0PwH086wr_2ZYVK9P7f2Jk194cxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvuGJOaC27Km8cY41sFk0VSZxPC96tC-y+Vd0O3qcb1Lbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170731180739.GA31053@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801164725.GA20633@dog.cavelan.local>
Message-ID: <CALuKVvtGP1RtrYBPEmXij6DN6sRyqHMTmZed-EGW+t7bUFJZYg@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't understand this: "I'm all over on communications and it is
**all** done in my smartphone (the communicator)."  At first I thought
you were talking about a specific app, but maybe you just mean that
you communicate a lot through your phone.  So you need to use it for
email and stuff, which means typing a lot with the phone.  Have you
tried buying a portable bluetooth keyboard?  Example:

Closed size: 5.8" x 3.6" x 0.7", Open Size: 9.9" x 3.5" x 0.2"
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Keyboard-Portable-Keyboards-Smartphone/dp/B00WSL8FH4/

I don't know if that one is better than any of the others.  A few are
compared in a table -- scroll down to see it.

Mike


On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp at comcast.net> wrote:
> I think my smartphone has a 5.1_inch display.
>
> I mostly use Android apps, of course, on my Samsung Galaxy S7. But I do run
> GNURoot-Debian for the following applications and don't use any andoid app for
> these:
> : ssh
> : scp
> : sftp
> : Reluctanly, I use it" for access to my comcast.net-sited "email". (It's
>   better than nothing when you didn't bring your laptop with you).
> [Note: add your favorite computers' IP addresses to GNURoot-path
> /etc/hosts--Android seems to not do DNS well--at least within GNURoot?!]
>
> So I use GNURoot for all file transfers to/from my {laptop, desktop} from/to my
> < allegedly smart >-phone, and SSH-ing.
>
> And that is mostly it. I can, however, put a few of my relative seldom used
> homebrewed C programs on it, if I find they're at all useful (and they can't
> do X11...). I just haven't got around to it yet.
>
> Plus, I'm planning on putting a bunch of data on the smarty-pants-phone
> so I have that data at my fingertips. Haven't got around to this, either, yet.
>
> Lastly, I can also ssh to my desktop (typically the laptop isn't "on" 24 hours
> but the desktop is) if I don't have my laptop with me, I can still get access
> to my desktop-Linux/GNU-Box for, say, a file or a line of information from a
> file.
>
> And, I have a crude app to get my POP3 email on my desktop to send the HTML
> version of the email to the phone so I can read it. I did this with mutt,
> and liberal use of nc (nc is netcat) in /bin/sh scripts.
>
> Of course all of this stinks, because the keyboard has to be so small.
> But it works well enough.
>
> I did once figure out how to make my Linux laptop act as a Bluetooth keyboard,
> but unfortunately I didn't write the procedure down. I am interested in trying
> it again soon, however, because of another problem, namely, I'm all over on
> communications and it is **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator).
> So a real keyboard would make it much easier to write messages, emails,
> even a GNURoot session.
>
> On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>> Thanks for the info, Steve.  I'll be giving it a try, too.
>>
>> Yeah, a 1920x1080 smartphone could be hard on the eyes, to say the
>> least.  Maybe it's a little easier on a Fire HD 8.  Also, you can
>> usually change fonts and icon sizes in Linux, so that could help.
>>
>> I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>> > Oh man, it pains me to think of using a terminal on a smartphone for anything
>> > more than one command! My eyes would totally suck at this, as would my fingers.
>> >
>> > It did help to be able to SSH to my iphone and do some tweaking from a proper
>> > system when I had to.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> --
> Name: Steve Trapp
> Location: Just east of the Missippi River
> Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From stevetrapp at comcast.net  Tue Aug  1 13:22:31 2017
From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:22:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <CALuKVvtGP1RtrYBPEmXij6DN6sRyqHMTmZed-EGW+t7bUFJZYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20170718163705.GB23603@nobelware.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707181153360.11388@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALuKVvsT_rMNM+MTpFqrgduWqiFjLdTqO5eW7o9MZfD7xAab=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvvS4uWdkmf9v7tGW0PwH086wr_2ZYVK9P7f2Jk194cxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvuGJOaC27Km8cY41sFk0VSZxPC96tC-y+Vd0O3qcb1Lbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170731180739.GA31053@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801164725.GA20633@dog.cavelan.local>
 <CALuKVvtGP1RtrYBPEmXij6DN6sRyqHMTmZed-EGW+t7bUFJZYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170801182231.GA21810@dog.cavelan.local>

In-lined my reply:

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:06:45PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> I didn't understand this: "I'm all over on communications and it is
> **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator)."  At first I thought
> you were talking about a specific app, but maybe you just mean that
> you communicate a lot through your phone.  So you need to use it for
> email and stuff, which means typing a lot with the phone.  Have you
> tried buying a portable bluetooth keyboard?  Example:

Yes, I use my phone for almost all communications (GroupMe, facebook, meetup
amongst others). The exception is email is usually done on a laptop...

> Closed size: 5.8" x 3.6" x 0.7", Open Size: 9.9" x 3.5" x 0.2"
> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Keyboard-Portable-Keyboards-Smartphone/dp/B00WSL8FH4/
> 
> I don't know if that one is better than any of the others.  A few are
> compared in a table -- scroll down to see it.
> 
> Mike

Thanks, I've seen many offers for *real* BlueTooth keyboards. But I'm reluctant
to carry a BlueTooth keyboard *and* a laptop. I once had Linux-laptop-running-
as-a-Bluetooth-Keyboard, so I know it's possible; so I can do it again, and
this time WRITE DOWN the procedure! (Configuration can be a <BLEEP!>).

> 
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp at comcast.net> wrote:
> > I think my smartphone has a 5.1_inch display.
> >
> > I mostly use Android apps, of course, on my Samsung Galaxy S7. But I do run
> > GNURoot-Debian for the following applications and don't use any andoid app for
> > these:
> > : ssh
> > : scp
> > : sftp
> > : Reluctanly, I use it" for access to my comcast.net-sited "email". (It's
> >   better than nothing when you didn't bring your laptop with you).
> > [Note: add your favorite computers' IP addresses to GNURoot-path
> > /etc/hosts--Android seems to not do DNS well--at least within GNURoot?!]
> >
> > So I use GNURoot for all file transfers to/from my {laptop, desktop} from/to my
> > < allegedly smart >-phone, and SSH-ing.
> >
> > And that is mostly it. I can, however, put a few of my relative seldom used
> > homebrewed C programs on it, if I find they're at all useful (and they can't
> > do X11...). I just haven't got around to it yet.
> >
> > Plus, I'm planning on putting a bunch of data on the smarty-pants-phone
> > so I have that data at my fingertips. Haven't got around to this, either, yet.
> >
> > Lastly, I can also ssh to my desktop (typically the laptop isn't "on" 24 hours
> > but the desktop is) if I don't have my laptop with me, I can still get access
> > to my desktop-Linux/GNU-Box for, say, a file or a line of information from a
> > file.
> >
> > And, I have a crude app to get my POP3 email on my desktop to send the HTML
> > version of the email to the phone so I can read it. I did this with mutt,
> > and liberal use of nc (nc is netcat) in /bin/sh scripts.
> >
> > Of course all of this stinks, because the keyboard has to be so small.
> > But it works well enough.
> >
> > I did once figure out how to make my Linux laptop act as a Bluetooth keyboard,
> > but unfortunately I didn't write the procedure down. I am interested in trying
> > it again soon, however, because of another problem, namely, I'm all over on
> > communications and it is **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator).
> > So a real keyboard would make it much easier to write messages, emails,
> > even a GNURoot session.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> >> Thanks for the info, Steve.  I'll be giving it a try, too.
> >>
> >> Yeah, a 1920x1080 smartphone could be hard on the eyes, to say the
> >> least.  Maybe it's a little easier on a Fire HD 8.  Also, you can
> >> usually change fonts and icon sizes in Linux, so that could help.
> >>
> >> I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> >> > Oh man, it pains me to think of using a terminal on a smartphone for anything
> >> > more than one command! My eyes would totally suck at this, as would my fingers.
> >> >
> >> > It did help to be able to SSH to my iphone and do some tweaking from a proper
> >> > system when I had to.
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> > --
> > Name: Steve Trapp
> > Location: Just east of the Missippi River
> > Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
> > Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-- 
Name: Steve Trapp
Location: Just east of the Missippi River
Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Aug  1 14:30:27 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:30:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <20170801182231.GA21810@dog.cavelan.local>
References: <20170718163705.GB23603@nobelware.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707181153360.11388@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALuKVvsT_rMNM+MTpFqrgduWqiFjLdTqO5eW7o9MZfD7xAab=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvvS4uWdkmf9v7tGW0PwH086wr_2ZYVK9P7f2Jk194cxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvuGJOaC27Km8cY41sFk0VSZxPC96tC-y+Vd0O3qcb1Lbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170731180739.GA31053@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801164725.GA20633@dog.cavelan.local>
 <CALuKVvtGP1RtrYBPEmXij6DN6sRyqHMTmZed-EGW+t7bUFJZYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801182231.GA21810@dog.cavelan.local>
Message-ID: <CALuKVvuxM_pqRKohtPyiEYsufo15EUe0=FuEVH0GTF_2eka3NQ@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe this will help:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/229287/how-do-i-make-ubuntu-appear-as-a-bluetooth-keyboard

Here's my question:  If you have a laptop with you, then why use the
phone for email?  Is it because you can use your data connection when
there is no WiFi?  What I would do is use the phone as a WiFi hotspot
and then use the laptop for email.  I don't know if all Android phones
with all carriers can do that, but with T-Mobile I've been doing it
and it works great.

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp at comcast.net> wrote:
> In-lined my reply:
>
> On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:06:45PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>> I didn't understand this: "I'm all over on communications and it is
>> **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator)."  At first I thought
>> you were talking about a specific app, but maybe you just mean that
>> you communicate a lot through your phone.  So you need to use it for
>> email and stuff, which means typing a lot with the phone.  Have you
>> tried buying a portable bluetooth keyboard?  Example:
>
> Yes, I use my phone for almost all communications (GroupMe, facebook, meetup
> amongst others). The exception is email is usually done on a laptop...
>
>> Closed size: 5.8" x 3.6" x 0.7", Open Size: 9.9" x 3.5" x 0.2"
>> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Keyboard-Portable-Keyboards-Smartphone/dp/B00WSL8FH4/
>>
>> I don't know if that one is better than any of the others.  A few are
>> compared in a table -- scroll down to see it.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Thanks, I've seen many offers for *real* BlueTooth keyboards. But I'm reluctant
> to carry a BlueTooth keyboard *and* a laptop. I once had Linux-laptop-running-
> as-a-Bluetooth-Keyboard, so I know it's possible; so I can do it again, and
> this time WRITE DOWN the procedure! (Configuration can be a <BLEEP!>).
>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp at comcast.net> wrote:
>> > I think my smartphone has a 5.1_inch display.
>> >
>> > I mostly use Android apps, of course, on my Samsung Galaxy S7. But I do run
>> > GNURoot-Debian for the following applications and don't use any andoid app for
>> > these:
>> > : ssh
>> > : scp
>> > : sftp
>> > : Reluctanly, I use it" for access to my comcast.net-sited "email". (It's
>> >   better than nothing when you didn't bring your laptop with you).
>> > [Note: add your favorite computers' IP addresses to GNURoot-path
>> > /etc/hosts--Android seems to not do DNS well--at least within GNURoot?!]
>> >
>> > So I use GNURoot for all file transfers to/from my {laptop, desktop} from/to my
>> > < allegedly smart >-phone, and SSH-ing.
>> >
>> > And that is mostly it. I can, however, put a few of my relative seldom used
>> > homebrewed C programs on it, if I find they're at all useful (and they can't
>> > do X11...). I just haven't got around to it yet.
>> >
>> > Plus, I'm planning on putting a bunch of data on the smarty-pants-phone
>> > so I have that data at my fingertips. Haven't got around to this, either, yet.
>> >
>> > Lastly, I can also ssh to my desktop (typically the laptop isn't "on" 24 hours
>> > but the desktop is) if I don't have my laptop with me, I can still get access
>> > to my desktop-Linux/GNU-Box for, say, a file or a line of information from a
>> > file.
>> >
>> > And, I have a crude app to get my POP3 email on my desktop to send the HTML
>> > version of the email to the phone so I can read it. I did this with mutt,
>> > and liberal use of nc (nc is netcat) in /bin/sh scripts.
>> >
>> > Of course all of this stinks, because the keyboard has to be so small.
>> > But it works well enough.
>> >
>> > I did once figure out how to make my Linux laptop act as a Bluetooth keyboard,
>> > but unfortunately I didn't write the procedure down. I am interested in trying
>> > it again soon, however, because of another problem, namely, I'm all over on
>> > communications and it is **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator).
>> > So a real keyboard would make it much easier to write messages, emails,
>> > even a GNURoot session.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>> >> Thanks for the info, Steve.  I'll be giving it a try, too.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, a 1920x1080 smartphone could be hard on the eyes, to say the
>> >> least.  Maybe it's a little easier on a Fire HD 8.  Also, you can
>> >> usually change fonts and icon sizes in Linux, so that could help.
>> >>
>> >> I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>> >> > Oh man, it pains me to think of using a terminal on a smartphone for anything
>> >> > more than one command! My eyes would totally suck at this, as would my fingers.
>> >> >
>> >> > It did help to be able to SSH to my iphone and do some tweaking from a proper
>> >> > system when I had to.
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> >
>> > --
>> > Name: Steve Trapp
>> > Location: Just east of the Missippi River
>> > Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
>> > Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> --
> Name: Steve Trapp
> Location: Just east of the Missippi River
> Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Aug  1 14:31:31 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:31:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <CALuKVvuxM_pqRKohtPyiEYsufo15EUe0=FuEVH0GTF_2eka3NQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20170718163705.GB23603@nobelware.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.10.1707181153360.11388@cockerel.yaron.org>
 <CALuKVvsT_rMNM+MTpFqrgduWqiFjLdTqO5eW7o9MZfD7xAab=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvvS4uWdkmf9v7tGW0PwH086wr_2ZYVK9P7f2Jk194cxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvuGJOaC27Km8cY41sFk0VSZxPC96tC-y+Vd0O3qcb1Lbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170731180739.GA31053@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801164725.GA20633@dog.cavelan.local>
 <CALuKVvtGP1RtrYBPEmXij6DN6sRyqHMTmZed-EGW+t7bUFJZYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801182231.GA21810@dog.cavelan.local>
 <CALuKVvuxM_pqRKohtPyiEYsufo15EUe0=FuEVH0GTF_2eka3NQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALuKVvtygwdrQr7_s9njuqQK5SH16UrHoF=tLqOsfBky48_E2A@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I see that you use the laptop for email.  But why not use it
for other things, too?  Facebook, certainly.

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Mike Miller <mbmiller+l at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe this will help:
>
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/229287/how-do-i-make-ubuntu-appear-as-a-bluetooth-keyboard
>
> Here's my question:  If you have a laptop with you, then why use the
> phone for email?  Is it because you can use your data connection when
> there is no WiFi?  What I would do is use the phone as a WiFi hotspot
> and then use the laptop for email.  I don't know if all Android phones
> with all carriers can do that, but with T-Mobile I've been doing it
> and it works great.
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp at comcast.net> wrote:
>> In-lined my reply:
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:06:45PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>>> I didn't understand this: "I'm all over on communications and it is
>>> **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator)."  At first I thought
>>> you were talking about a specific app, but maybe you just mean that
>>> you communicate a lot through your phone.  So you need to use it for
>>> email and stuff, which means typing a lot with the phone.  Have you
>>> tried buying a portable bluetooth keyboard?  Example:
>>
>> Yes, I use my phone for almost all communications (GroupMe, facebook, meetup
>> amongst others). The exception is email is usually done on a laptop...
>>
>>> Closed size: 5.8" x 3.6" x 0.7", Open Size: 9.9" x 3.5" x 0.2"
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Keyboard-Portable-Keyboards-Smartphone/dp/B00WSL8FH4/
>>>
>>> I don't know if that one is better than any of the others.  A few are
>>> compared in a table -- scroll down to see it.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> Thanks, I've seen many offers for *real* BlueTooth keyboards. But I'm reluctant
>> to carry a BlueTooth keyboard *and* a laptop. I once had Linux-laptop-running-
>> as-a-Bluetooth-Keyboard, so I know it's possible; so I can do it again, and
>> this time WRITE DOWN the procedure! (Configuration can be a <BLEEP!>).
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> > I think my smartphone has a 5.1_inch display.
>>> >
>>> > I mostly use Android apps, of course, on my Samsung Galaxy S7. But I do run
>>> > GNURoot-Debian for the following applications and don't use any andoid app for
>>> > these:
>>> > : ssh
>>> > : scp
>>> > : sftp
>>> > : Reluctanly, I use it" for access to my comcast.net-sited "email". (It's
>>> >   better than nothing when you didn't bring your laptop with you).
>>> > [Note: add your favorite computers' IP addresses to GNURoot-path
>>> > /etc/hosts--Android seems to not do DNS well--at least within GNURoot?!]
>>> >
>>> > So I use GNURoot for all file transfers to/from my {laptop, desktop} from/to my
>>> > < allegedly smart >-phone, and SSH-ing.
>>> >
>>> > And that is mostly it. I can, however, put a few of my relative seldom used
>>> > homebrewed C programs on it, if I find they're at all useful (and they can't
>>> > do X11...). I just haven't got around to it yet.
>>> >
>>> > Plus, I'm planning on putting a bunch of data on the smarty-pants-phone
>>> > so I have that data at my fingertips. Haven't got around to this, either, yet.
>>> >
>>> > Lastly, I can also ssh to my desktop (typically the laptop isn't "on" 24 hours
>>> > but the desktop is) if I don't have my laptop with me, I can still get access
>>> > to my desktop-Linux/GNU-Box for, say, a file or a line of information from a
>>> > file.
>>> >
>>> > And, I have a crude app to get my POP3 email on my desktop to send the HTML
>>> > version of the email to the phone so I can read it. I did this with mutt,
>>> > and liberal use of nc (nc is netcat) in /bin/sh scripts.
>>> >
>>> > Of course all of this stinks, because the keyboard has to be so small.
>>> > But it works well enough.
>>> >
>>> > I did once figure out how to make my Linux laptop act as a Bluetooth keyboard,
>>> > but unfortunately I didn't write the procedure down. I am interested in trying
>>> > it again soon, however, because of another problem, namely, I'm all over on
>>> > communications and it is **all** done in my smartphone (the communicator).
>>> > So a real keyboard would make it much easier to write messages, emails,
>>> > even a GNURoot session.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
>>> >> Thanks for the info, Steve.  I'll be giving it a try, too.
>>> >>
>>> >> Yeah, a 1920x1080 smartphone could be hard on the eyes, to say the
>>> >> least.  Maybe it's a little easier on a Fire HD 8.  Also, you can
>>> >> usually change fonts and icon sizes in Linux, so that could help.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?
>>> >>
>>> >> Mike
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>> >> > Oh man, it pains me to think of using a terminal on a smartphone for anything
>>> >> > more than one command! My eyes would totally suck at this, as would my fingers.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > It did help to be able to SSH to my iphone and do some tweaking from a proper
>>> >> > system when I had to.
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> >> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> >> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Name: Steve Trapp
>>> > Location: Just east of the Missippi River
>>> > Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
>>> > Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>> --
>> Name: Steve Trapp
>> Location: Just east of the Missippi River
>> Email-address: stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net
>> Homepage: comcast DROPPED ALL HOMEPAGES--Where do I put my PGP public key now?
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Tue Aug  1 16:13:31 2017
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 16:13:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: Amazon's Fire HD 8
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DQ5-6kJQ7LgoaGgG+RSwUa97rR-CAPx1wnZ94LvpT8sw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?


i regularly connect bvnc via port forward in vx-connectbot
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From stevetrapp at comcast.net  Thu Aug  3 12:01:40 2017
From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:01:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <CALuKVvuxM_pqRKohtPyiEYsufo15EUe0=FuEVH0GTF_2eka3NQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALuKVvsT_rMNM+MTpFqrgduWqiFjLdTqO5eW7o9MZfD7xAab=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvvS4uWdkmf9v7tGW0PwH086wr_2ZYVK9P7f2Jk194cxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALuKVvuGJOaC27Km8cY41sFk0VSZxPC96tC-y+Vd0O3qcb1Lbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170731180739.GA31053@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20170731231517.GA20137@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvspa-XgYNtN4pge_rzpKPzT42+ebjZUX6qMSysT04n69w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801164725.GA20633@dog.cavelan.local>
 <CALuKVvtGP1RtrYBPEmXij6DN6sRyqHMTmZed-EGW+t7bUFJZYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170801182231.GA21810@dog.cavelan.local>
 <CALuKVvuxM_pqRKohtPyiEYsufo15EUe0=FuEVH0GTF_2eka3NQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170803170140.GA19820@dog.cavelan.local>

My reply is in-lined below.

On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 02:30:27PM -0500, Mike Miller wrote:
> Maybe this will help:
> 
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/229287/how-do-i-make-ubuntu-appear-as-a-bluetooth-keyboard
>

****************
Regarding the above URL, it uses hidclient. hidclient depends on hidd (hid
daemon). hidd is obsolete. So that didn't work.

I was also unable to get my old way to work, although I'm not 100% done trying
yet. I'm having a < mouse freeze up problem > and an < I've decided to ignore
the ENTER key > problem; both problems simultaneously, of course! I'm going to
try to stick a USB mouse in a USB slot and see if that helps for the position-
ing problem; however, I don't see a solution for the < Let's ignore ENTER >.
****************

> Here's my question:  If you have a laptop with you, then why use the
> phone for email?  Is it because you can use your data connection when
> there is no WiFi?  What I would do is use the phone as a WiFi hotspot
> and then use the laptop for email.  I don't know if all Android phones
> with all carriers can do that, but with T-Mobile I've been doing it
> and it works great.

****************
Yes, sometimes I'm somewhere with no WiFi (in fact, too often). I'm leery of
the amount of data that a hotspot uses--does anyone know how to measure it?!?!

Some places I just don't carry the laptop.

As far as email on the phone, I usually end up doing:
1. seeing if there's anything important.
2. deleting stupid crap e-mail (ads, facebook notifications, etc.).
I typically don't actually write anything or reply because keyboards on
smartphones just plainly suck.

As far as using {facebook, groupme, meetup} on the phone--I think it is just
easier.

Of course, I know I'm blessed that, although I'm 56, I do not yet need
bifocals, and can still read fairly small fonts on the phone. I even use it
for e-books (although, if I have my laptop up and running, I then use Amazon's
web interface).
****************

******** <<<< LOTS OF STUFF DELETED HERE >>>>> ********

> >> >> I'm thinking of using VNCviewer on it.  Have any of you ever done that?

****************
My problem with VNC is that it is unencrypted. I did write a couple of scripts
that make the VNC traffic encrypted with the help of SSH.

I have pretty much only used VNC between GNU/Linux boxes. At one time, there
was a way to use an old GNURoot (but not the current one) version so you could
remotely-control all of X running under GNURoot) with your VNC-viewer running
on a GNU/Linux laptop. In this setup, though, I was using some sort of USB
cable for IP communication. And it appears it is done somewhat differently now,
and I couldn't get it to work in < GNURoot Debian >.
****************

Cheers!
And thanks for the URL you found at top!,
~ Steve ~

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Aug  3 12:43:12 2017
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:43:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>

>
> My problem with VNC is that it is unencrypted. I did write a couple of
> scripts
> that make the VNC traffic encrypted with the help of SSH.
>

encrypted connections are easy, no scripts needed, eg connect vx-connectbot
(or other ssh client) to your server, forward a port, eg 5905 for vnc
display :5, and connect bvnc via that port.  vx-connectbot and bvnc will
remember your parameters for your connections so you don't need to re-enter
them again later.

keyboards on smartphones just plainly suck.
>

you are swyping, right?  swyping works well more often than not even if
your finger only comes somewhat near the intended letters.  eg for gmail.

swyping however doesn't seem to work for vx-connectbot or bvnc.  i use
hackers keyboard for them.
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From stevetrapp at comcast.net  Thu Aug  3 13:24:19 2017
From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 13:24:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170803182419.GA21355@dog.cavelan.local>

My reply (Steve's) is in-lined below.

On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 12:43:12PM -0500, gregrwm wrote:
> >
> > My problem with VNC is that it is unencrypted. I did write a couple of
> > scripts
> > that make the VNC traffic encrypted with the help of SSH.
> >
> 
> encrypted connections are easy, no scripts needed, eg connect vx-connectbot
> (or other ssh client) to your server, forward a port, eg 5905 for vnc
> display :5, and connect bvnc via that port.  vx-connectbot and bvnc will
> remember your parameters for your connections so you don't need to re-enter
> them again later.

I'll check out bvnc and vx-connectbot. Thanks for the pointer.

> keyboards on smartphones just plainly suck.
> >
> 
> you are swyping, right?  swyping works well more often than not even if
> your finger only comes somewhat near the intended letters.  eg for gmail.

Swyping? No. I'll try doing that. I have HEARD of that.

I'm not surprised that you need < hackers keyboard > because the android
keyboard programs don't always do the correct thing when you are connected to
something that expects a < PC keyboard >.

> swyping however doesn't seem to work for vx-connectbot or bvnc.  i use
> hackers keyboard for them.

Well, that is unfortunate.

Thanks, Greg, for your input!
~ Steve ~

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Aug  3 14:07:37 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 19:07:37 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170803190737.GA922@nobelware.com>

A small diversion from smartphone environments, but worth noting. Below...

> >
> > My problem with VNC is that it is unencrypted. I did write a couple of
> > scripts
> > that make the VNC traffic encrypted with the help of SSH.
> >
> 
> encrypted connections are easy, no scripts needed, eg connect vx-connectbot
> (or other ssh client) to your server, forward a port, eg 5905 for vnc
> display :5, and connect bvnc via that port.  vx-connectbot and bvnc will
> remember your parameters for your connections so you don't need to re-enter
> them again later.
>

I do this all the time, mostly with "reverse tunnels." (This is an excellent
way to provide technical support to family members, actually!) You need to play
some tricks with local (-L) and remote (-R) tunneled connections, but it works
stellarly.

Do not laugh, I have found this most useful when wanting to access remote
Windows machines via "remote desktop" or whatever Microsoft calls it. (VNC
works the same way when it comes to its traffic going through an SSH tunnel.)


From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Thu Aug  3 14:23:52 2017
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 14:23:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <20170803190737.GA922@nobelware.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170803190737.GA922@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9A6DqSc8KU3VNkv+wdYEdyRVcrJ81DicQw+ppAgHMFvuw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Swyping? No. I'll try doing that. I have HEARD of that.


if your native keyboard doesn't swype some free alternatives are gboard or
ginger keyboard or ikeyboard or panda, tho none of them are as nice as the
native keyboard that came on my galaxy s2 or s5, you might get the same
features if you pay the buck for the swype keyboard

or try voice input.  works better than ever these days.
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From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Thu Aug  3 21:15:20 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 21:15:20 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5_uSRBVhMwxZsz5Y81K_Zu+bewG-BX2L_a4BUUMDzHfmg@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings

Am getting into some different kind of stuff.
Will need to use a 'label printer'. Am finding that most of these have
drivers for M$ and/or Mac.

Is it possible to mod a win driver to work on linux?
Something else possible?
Other ideas?

TIA

Dee
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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Fri Aug  4 08:53:29 2017
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 08:53:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5_uSRBVhMwxZsz5Y81K_Zu+bewG-BX2L_a4BUUMDzHfmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf5_uSRBVhMwxZsz5Y81K_Zu+bewG-BX2L_a4BUUMDzHfmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708040844130.1199@rooster>

I don't know that "mod" is the word, but that's kind of how drivers for 
wireless NICs used to work - there was a wrapper for the binary blobs. As 
you may imagine, this was far feom optimal and only worked some of the 
time.

You should check if there's a cups or what's it. Gutenprint! Yeah, those 
guys. There might be Linux drivers for the printer you're trying to use.

Barring that, this is what virtual machines are for.

On Thu, 3 Aug 2017, o1bigtenor wrote:

> Greetings
> 
> Am getting into some different kind of stuff.
> Will need to use a 'label printer'. Am finding that most of these have
> drivers for M$ and/or Mac.
> 
> Is it possible to mod a win driver to work on linux?
> Something else possible?
> Other ideas?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Dee
> 
>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Aug  4 10:08:01 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 15:08:01 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708040844130.1199@rooster>
References: <CAPpdf5_uSRBVhMwxZsz5Y81K_Zu+bewG-BX2L_a4BUUMDzHfmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708040844130.1199@rooster>
Message-ID: <20170804150801.GA13687@nobelware.com>

> 
> I don't know that "mod" is the word, but that's kind of how drivers for 
> wireless NICs used to work - there was a wrapper for the binary blobs. As 
> you may imagine, this was far feom optimal and only worked some of the 
> time.
>

You are talking about "ndiswrapper" which is a great piece of software. But
that is for NICs, as far as I can tell.

Dee,

CUPS is what would have drivers for most printers. If it is a postscript
printer things can be easier, and a networked post-script printer is most
likely the best for use with Linux and CUPS. In the old days of early CUPS,
and this may be the case today, you needed a "filter" to send printer-specific
commands to a given printer so as to print anything. CUPS runs on your Linux,
or other server, and the filter is installed in that CUPS configuration. And
you just print.

Ubuntus tend to have all this crap ready to go. Nothing wrong with virtualizing
a Linux if you want to do that; great suggestion.

From bgilbertson at rrt.net  Fri Aug  4 14:44:02 2017
From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (Robert Gilbertson)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:44:02 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
Message-ID: <5984ce82.3864.6a173700.5ad185f8@rrt.net>

If using CUPS usually just need the PPD file for the printer.
Openprinting.org has some,
http://www.openprinting.org/download/PPD/
or can be retrieved from inside the M$ driver for the printer.

Open the CUPS interface at http://localhost:631 and point to the 
retrieved PPD file when adding printer.


Regards,
Bob



On Thursday 03/08/2017 at 9:15 pm, o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings
>
> Am getting into some different kind of stuff.
> Will need to use a 'label printer'. Am finding that most of these have 
> drivers for M$ and/or Mac.
>
> Is it possible to mod a win driver to work on linux?
> Something else possible?
> Other ideas?
>
> TIA
>
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

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From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Fri Aug  4 16:19:18 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:19:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <5984ce82.3864.6a173700.5ad185f8@rrt.net>
References: <5984ce82.3864.6a173700.5ad185f8@rrt.net>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf58A=g8LAOHwgSdmx6p_UqB9uzUCNsmEBJNfwat5U3aouQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Robert Gilbertson <bgilbertson at rrt.net>
wrote:

> If using CUPS usually just need the PPD file for the printer.
> Openprinting.org has some,
> http://www.openprinting.org/download/PPD/
> or can be retrieved from inside the M$ driver for the printer.
>

OK - - - this is interesting - - - I have the M$ drivers downloaded. How
can I open them up?
Digging on the shweb  says use WINE. Last time I tried to install WINE I
borked my system serious like so not sure I want that one.

Any ideas on how to parse the parts of the driver?

Dee
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Fri Aug  4 18:47:25 2017
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 18:47:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf58A=g8LAOHwgSdmx6p_UqB9uzUCNsmEBJNfwat5U3aouQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5984ce82.3864.6a173700.5ad185f8@rrt.net>
 <CAPpdf58A=g8LAOHwgSdmx6p_UqB9uzUCNsmEBJNfwat5U3aouQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1501890445.6355.6.camel@pureice.com>

If you want to use wine but not bork your system, spin up a docker
container containing wine:
Put the following in a Dockerfile, build the container from the
Dockerfile, then run it.?
Voila, an isolated instance of wine that can't bork your system.
When you're done, delete the image and the container and no one will be
the wiser that you had wine running on your machine.
# Wine docker image base
      
      
        FROM debian:stretch
      
      
        LABEL maintainer "Jessie Frazelle <jess at linux.com>"
      
      
        
      
      
        # install wine
      
      
        RUN apt-get update && apt-get install -y \
      
      
        	wine \
      
      
        	--no-install-recommends && \
      
      
        	dpkg --add-architecture i386 && \
      
      
        	apt-get update && \
      
      
        	apt-get install -y \
      
      
        	wine32 \
      
      
        	--no-install-recommends \
      
      
        	&& rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/*
      
      
        
      
      
        ENV HOME /root
      
      
        WORKDIR $HOMEMore of Jess's Dockerfiles can be found here:?https://github.com/jessfr
az/dockerfiles
On Fri, 2017-08-04 at 16:19 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Robert Gilbertson 
> t> wrote:
> > If using CUPS usually just need the PPD file for the printer.
> > Openprinting.org has some,
> > http://www.openprinting.org/download/PPD/
> > or can be retrieved from inside the M$ driver for the printer.
> > 
> OK - - - this is interesting - - - I have the M$ drivers downloaded.
> How can I open them up?
> Digging on the shweb? says use WINE. Last time I tried to install
> WINE I borked my system serious like so not sure I want that one.
> 
> Any ideas on how to parse the parts of the driver?
> 
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Aug  4 22:58:47 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 03:58:47 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <1501890445.6355.6.camel@pureice.com>
References: <5984ce82.3864.6a173700.5ad185f8@rrt.net>
 <CAPpdf58A=g8LAOHwgSdmx6p_UqB9uzUCNsmEBJNfwat5U3aouQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1501890445.6355.6.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20170805035847.GA9028@nobelware.com>

Do as Bob said, which is what I was trying to describe, but putting that
"filter file" (that is what those used to be called) in the right place
for CUPS. That should be easy. If you cannot do it, report back and I will
give it a shot myself and give you instructions.

By a "bonked" system I am assuming a system that had issues due to .so files
being tweaked after a Wine installation, not a runtime issue. Correct? The
runtime issue may be avoided by jailing the process, like Randy said. (I use
LXC, not Docker.)

I do NOT recommend software packages like Wine being installed with apt-get
style package and dependence maintainers/installers. Take this with a grain
of salt from possibly the only Slackware user here, but I install this sort
of packages as "environment modules" and build them from source. Nothing on
the system gets contaminated, and one can have a number of versions of the
packages available for any user on demand. Wine, specifically, comes out with
a new version every five minutes...

Here is an example of modules on my desktop:

iznogoud at bigpapa:~> module avail

---------------------------- /opt/Modules/versions -----------------------------
3.2.9

------------------------ /opt/Modules/3.2.9/modulefiles ------------------------
HDF5        OpenMPI     Wine        gcc6.3.0    modules
JavaJDK     OpenOffice  Wine-1.8.3  module-cvs  null
Metis       PETSc       dot         module-info use.own
iznogoud at bigpapa:~> 

The "gcc6.3.0" I had built when I was describing to Mr Wood on this list how
to put a hacked-up version of GCC 6.3 with certain components of GCC 7.x.

In the examples above I have a number of Wine, OpenOffice, JavaJDK available,
but I only have some of them visible.

Use modules; thank me later.

From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Sat Aug  5 06:04:10 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 06:04:10 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <20170805035847.GA9028@nobelware.com>
References: <5984ce82.3864.6a173700.5ad185f8@rrt.net>
 <CAPpdf58A=g8LAOHwgSdmx6p_UqB9uzUCNsmEBJNfwat5U3aouQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1501890445.6355.6.camel@pureice.com> <20170805035847.GA9028@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5_T7otAsNbGcDrgtOLXiyYU1Agd=_Uw=NLzjj69Pi7LEw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 10:58 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Do as Bob said, which is what I was trying to describe, but putting that
> "filter file" (that is what those used to be called) in the right place
> for CUPS. That should be easy. If you cannot do it, report back and I will
> give it a shot myself and give you instructions.
>

Thank you for that very generous offer.

>
> By a "bonked" system I am assuming a system that had issues due to .so
> files
> being tweaked after a Wine installation, not a runtime issue. Correct? The
> runtime issue may be avoided by jailing the process, like Randy said. (I
> use
> LXC, not Docker.)
>
> By 'borked' I meant that I had an unusable system. I cannot remember
exactly as
that was over 3 years ago just that the system was halted and I couldn't
get into
it - - - nothing. So it was a reinstall. That was what lead to my starting
to use
VMs - - - that level of aggravation and frustration just was too much to
risk a
repeat. From that I also developed  the habit of having all the VMs stored
in a
certain fashion, which, on this last system upgrade, Vbox will no longer
let me
do - - - rather it has been deciding where to put stuff. So I've started
looking into
LXC and LXD - - - still a total noob though!


> I do NOT recommend software packages like Wine being installed with apt-get
> style package and dependence maintainers/installers. Take this with a grain
> of salt from possibly the only Slackware user here, but I install this sort
> of packages as "environment modules" and build them from source. Nothing on
> the system gets contaminated, and one can have a number of versions of the
> packages available for any user on demand. Wine, specifically, comes out
> with
> a new version every five minutes...
>

That was what I did - - - I was using apt-get to install and there were an
absolute
mountain of dependencies that I had to add/fiddle with and somewhere in all
the
mess I managed to bork things thoroughly - - - vms for sure now!

>
> Here is an example of modules on my desktop:
>
> iznogoud at bigpapa:~> module avail
>
> ---------------------------- /opt/Modules/versions
> -----------------------------
> 3.2.9
>
> ------------------------ /opt/Modules/3.2.9/modulefiles
> ------------------------
> HDF5        OpenMPI     Wine        gcc6.3.0    modules
> JavaJDK     OpenOffice  Wine-1.8.3  module-cvs  null
> Metis       PETSc       dot         module-info use.own
> iznogoud at bigpapa:~>
>
> The "gcc6.3.0" I had built when I was describing to Mr Wood on this list
> how
> to put a hacked-up version of GCC 6.3 with certain components of GCC 7.x.
>
> In the examples above I have a number of Wine, OpenOffice, JavaJDK
> available,
> but I only have some of them visible.
>
> Use modules; thank me later.
>

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - - - I'm on Debian - - - haven't run into
the 'module' thing yet - - - there are so many things I'm 'supposed' to
know - - -
and there just aren't enough hours in the day to use the tools the way I
need to,
for my business and my self, and to figure out how to install and combine
the
tools.

Thank you for your assistance and ideas!

Dee
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From stevetrapp at comcast.net  Sat Aug  5 20:19:30 2017
From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:19:30 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <20170803190737.GA922@nobelware.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170803190737.GA922@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <20170806011930.GA18988@dog.cavelan.local>

My reply is ON THE BOTTOM....

> > > My problem with VNC is that it is unencrypted. I did write a couple of
> > > scripts
> > > that make the VNC traffic encrypted with the help of SSH.
> > >
> > 
> > encrypted connections are easy, no scripts needed, eg connect vx-connectbot
> > (or other ssh client) to your server, forward a port, eg 5905 for vnc
> > display :5, and connect bvnc via that port.  vx-connectbot and bvnc will
> > remember your parameters for your connections so you don't need to re-enter
> > them again later.
> >
> 
> I do this all the time, mostly with "reverse tunnels." (This is an excellent
> way to provide technical support to family members, actually!) You need to play
> some tricks with local (-L) and remote (-R) tunneled connections, but it works
> stellarly.
> 


My VNC scripts use -L and-or -R of SSH to encrypt/decrypt the protocol (name
I forgot) that VNC uses (which isn't ecrypted).

My email script also uses < ssh -L and -R > PLUS it uses
< nc (netcat) on the -L and -R ports > so I can ssh to
get my mail (I use POP3), then I locally (via GNURoot)
run a script; then on the remote machine (computer SSHed
to) I run another script that calls up mutt. Then, for
HTML MIME email, instead of mutt trying to webbrowse the
HTML, I have it send the HTML from the remote machine
ro the local machine and hit the HOME key on the phone
and go to a known path <file:///sdcard/...etc...> via
Android Chrome.

Sorry about short width--I forgot my laptop and can't get
it till tomorrow, so wrote this using smart(?)-phone.

~ Steve ~

From stevetrapp at comcast.net  Sat Aug  5 20:29:49 2017
From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 20:29:49 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] FireAmazon8 / GNURootDebian
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9A6DqSc8KU3VNkv+wdYEdyRVcrJ81DicQw+ppAgHMFvuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9DBKXJSEZeczDq12HwV0WhPAgS5+WtBOPMF57jtsEX12A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170803190737.GA922@nobelware.com>
 <CAD+dB9A6DqSc8KU3VNkv+wdYEdyRVcrJ81DicQw+ppAgHMFvuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170806012949.GB18988@dog.cavelan.local>

I had some luck with < gboard-'s swype > for normal conversations but
some of that luck is bad... And it is no help whatsoever
in an ssh session.

Haven't really tried voice input. I'll give that a go!!

I'm sure vocal on ssh will fail though...

~ Steve ~

On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 02:23:52PM -0500, gregrwm wrote:
> >
> > Swyping? No. I'll try doing that. I have HEARD of that.
> 
> 
> if your native keyboard doesn't swype some free alternatives are gboard or
> ginger keyboard or ikeyboard or panda, tho none of them are as nice as the
> native keyboard that came on my galaxy s2 or s5, you might get the same
> features if you pay the buck for the swype keyboard
> 
> or try voice input.  works better than ever these days.

From bgilbertson at rrt.net  Mon Aug  7 07:32:53 2017
From: bgilbertson at rrt.net (Robert Gilbertson)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 07:32:53 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
Message-ID: <59885df5.2d66.fa0f5700.6a2f0b15@rrt.net>

Dee,

A quick search shows some options others have found success with, but 
I haven't done myself.
http://linux.ittoolbox.com/groups/technical-functional/linuxadmin-l/what-to-use-to-extract-a-selfextracting-exe-5695093


Using the localhost:631 interface to install will put the file where 
your system expects it, usually in /etc/cups/PPD/ with root 
permissions.

Regards,
Bob


On Saturday 05/08/2017 at 6:11 am, o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 10:58 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Do as Bob said, which is what I was trying to describe, but putting 
>> that
>> "filter file" (that is what those used to be called) in the right 
>> place
>> for CUPS. That should be easy. If you cannot do it, report back and I 
>> will
>> give it a shot myself and give you instructions.
>
>
> Thank you for that very generous offer.
>>
>>
>> By a "bonked" system I am assuming a system that had issues due to .so 
>> files
>> being tweaked after a Wine installation, not a runtime issue. Correct? 
>> The
>> runtime issue may be avoided by jailing the process, like Randy said. 
>> (I use
>> LXC, not Docker.)
>>
>
> By 'borked' I meant that I had an unusable system. I cannot remember 
> exactly as
>
> that was over 3 years ago just that the system was halted and I 
> couldn't get into
>
> it - - - nothing. So it was a reinstall. That was what lead to my 
> starting to use
>
> VMs - - - that level of aggravation and frustration just was too much 
> to risk a
>
> repeat. From that I also developed  the habit of having all the VMs 
> stored in a
> certain fashion, which, on this last system upgrade, Vbox will no 
> longer let me
>
> do - - - rather it has been deciding where to put stuff. So I've 
> started looking into
>
> LXC and LXD - - - still a total noob though!
>
>
>> I do NOT recommend software packages like Wine being installed with 
>> apt-get
>> style package and dependence maintainers/installers. Take this with a 
>> grain
>> of salt from possibly the only Slackware user here, but I install this 
>> sort
>> of packages as "environment modules" and build them from source. 
>> Nothing on
>> the system gets contaminated, and one can have a number of versions of 
>> the
>> packages available for any user on demand. Wine, specifically, comes 
>> out with
>> a new version every five minutes...
>
>
> That was what I did - - - I was using apt-get to install and there 
> were an absolute
>
> mountain of dependencies that I had to add/fiddle with and somewhere 
> in all the
>
> mess I managed to bork things thoroughly - - - vms for sure now!
>>
>>
>> Here is an example of modules on my desktop:
>>
>> iznogoud at bigpapa:~> module avail
>>
>> ---------------------------- /opt/Modules/versions 
>> -----------------------------
>> 3.2.9
>>
>> ------------------------ /opt/Modules/3.2.9/modulefiles 
>> ------------------------
>> HDF5        OpenMPI     Wine        gcc6.3.0    modules
>> JavaJDK     OpenOffice  Wine-1.8.3  module-cvs  null
>> Metis       PETSc       dot         module-info use.own
>> iznogoud at bigpapa:~>
>>
>> The "gcc6.3.0" I had built when I was describing to Mr Wood on this 
>> list how
>> to put a hacked-up version of GCC 6.3 with certain components of GCC 
>> 7.x.
>>
>> In the examples above I have a number of Wine, OpenOffice, JavaJDK 
>> available,
>> but I only have some of them visible.
>>
>> Use modules; thank me later.
>
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - - - I'm on Debian - - - haven't run into
>
> the 'module' thing yet - - - there are so many things I'm 'supposed' 
> to know - - -
>
> and there just aren't enough hours in the day to use the tools the way 
> I need to,
>
> for my business and my self, and to figure out how to install and 
> combine the
>
> tools.
>
>
> Thank you for your assistance and ideas!
>
>
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

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From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Mon Aug  7 08:12:19 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:12:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <59885df5.2d66.fa0f5700.6a2f0b15@rrt.net>
References: <59885df5.2d66.fa0f5700.6a2f0b15@rrt.net>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5_E2ZvtzT90VPyORzJc7MXpfmFYwAO5+1_U6_B8ZxQbqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Robert Gilbertson <bgilbertson at rrt.net>
wrote:

> Dee,
>
> A quick search shows some options others have found success with, but I
> haven't done myself.
> http://linux.ittoolbox.com/groups/technical-functional/
> linuxadmin-l/what-to-use-to-extract-a-selfextracting-exe-5695093
>
> Using the localhost:631 interface to install will put the file where your
> system expects it, usually in /etc/cups/PPD/ with root permissions.
>

Looks like a possible solution. As this is a longer term need this idea is
going to be filed in that ever expanding 'things to do' list.

Thank you for your assistance. (Will report upon attempt as to outcomes!)

Dee
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  7 23:24:29 2017
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 23:24:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Test results
Message-ID: <CABWFOjsV6OMchoMc5ykN_a1OkAwvtJfBg=jUJQdxaMvFmQQyWg@mail.gmail.com>

Over the years I haven't done a ton of benchmarking of my
software, but have done some.  Now with the help of this project :

https://github.com/thekvs/cpp-serializers

it's gotten easier to get a better idea of how the C++ Middleware
Writer (CMW) stacks up.  There are two factors to consider in the
above link:size and time.  The CMW produced a smaller serialized
size than Capnproto or Cereal:

Capnproto 17,768
Cereal       17,416
CMW         16,712

The CMW-based approach was also faster than Cereal in this benchmark.

I hope this will increase interest my offer to help someone
who is willing to use my software: http://webEbenezer.net/about.html

And if anyone would like a demo of my software, I'm happy
to do so.  If you have a recent C++ compiler installed, the
demo will probably only take ten (10)  minutes


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - My favorite song is by Sanctus Real -
https://www.letras.mus.br/sanctus-real/save-in-my-fathers-arms/

http://webEbenezer.net
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug  8 11:27:36 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 16:27:36 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] printer drivers
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5_T7otAsNbGcDrgtOLXiyYU1Agd=_Uw=NLzjj69Pi7LEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5984ce82.3864.6a173700.5ad185f8@rrt.net>
 <CAPpdf58A=g8LAOHwgSdmx6p_UqB9uzUCNsmEBJNfwat5U3aouQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1501890445.6355.6.camel@pureice.com> <20170805035847.GA9028@nobelware.com>
 <CAPpdf5_T7otAsNbGcDrgtOLXiyYU1Agd=_Uw=NLzjj69Pi7LEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170808162736.GA9400@nobelware.com>

Sorry for the late response; busy times...

On Sat, Aug 05, 2017 at 06:04:10AM -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
> > By 'borked' I meant that I had an unusable system. I cannot remember
> exactly as
> that was over 3 years ago just that the system was halted and I couldn't
> get into
> it - - - nothing. So it was a reinstall. That was what lead to my starting
> to use
> VMs - - - that level of aggravation and frustration just was too much to
> risk a
> repeat. From that I also developed  the habit of having all the VMs stored
> in a
> certain fashion, which, on this last system upgrade, Vbox will no longer
> let me
> do - - - rather it has been deciding where to put stuff. So I've started
> looking into
> LXC and LXD - - - still a total noob though!
> 
>

Oh, OK. two comments here. First, using VMs and jailed (LXC) processes is the
way to go there to maintain system integrity when testing. As a general rule,
be able to bring your system from the ashes when doing testing; this is a
rather long discussion and largely depends on the user's ability and methods
of choice. And second, with all due respect, it is the "noob way," as you put
it, to reinstall a system because of such a failure. GRUB and LILO (I use both
equally well) will let you go and but your system with a prompt following the
"init" process 9a single shell). Then, you can fix it as you please. A more
general system recovery (I do this all the time) would be to do one of two
things:
(a) recover an old backup of your system placed in a tarball (I do that), and
(b) recover from an image of the drive/partition that was obtained with "dd"

In (a), you may need to go and modify the boot sector if you are using LILO.
With GRUB, it should boot from the loader of GRUB as usual and it will find
the kernel from the grug.conf (or whatever that file is). GRUB is really king.
In b, you need to do nothing other than boot and drop the image to the
partition with dd. Yes, you an do this to a mounted file-system.

As to be helpful in this post, I recommend that you attempt to do a system
recovery using both methods. It is a few hours worth of work with time well
spent that will save you from re-installs. Let's face it, we have Linux because
we do not want to deal with OSs like Windows -which require re-installs-- and
we cannot act like Windows users...


VirtualBox is great, but it is a very intrusive piece of software to install
(requires a kernel module) and you can exploit most of its benefits with LXC.
I still use VirtualBox.


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug  8 11:40:58 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 16:40:58 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Test results
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjsV6OMchoMc5ykN_a1OkAwvtJfBg=jUJQdxaMvFmQQyWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjsV6OMchoMc5ykN_a1OkAwvtJfBg=jUJQdxaMvFmQQyWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170808164058.GB9400@nobelware.com>

I am curious, how has that been as a revenue-generating business to offer
this particular type of software-service to customers?

Seems to me like the customer base can be broad. But with the intentionally
nebulous description of the application of data serialization it cannot be a
very easy field in which to make money, especially with the competition.

I am more curious on the business side than the technical content of this.
Given that we are having a discussion with seemingly low interest on this list,
can you explain here or should we take this offline?


From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  8 19:19:11 2017
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2017 19:19:11 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Test results
Message-ID: <CABWFOjs1UaJdcEA-=8J7N=v5U__iR=s2dzO7_YSLcjTbvAV9kQ@mail.gmail.com>

Iznogoud writes:
>
> I am curious, how has that been as a revenue-generating business to offer
> this particular type of software-service to customers?

I prefer to stick to technical side of things.  Notice how I don't ask
people for any financial info/credit card in order to use the service.


> Seems to me like the customer base can be broad. But with the
intentionally
> nebulous description of the application of data serialization it cannot
be a
> very easy field in which to make money, especially with the competition.
>

Previously it was harder to show how the CMW compares to
the competition.  With that project I linked to it has gotten easier.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  9 12:40:00 2017
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 12:40:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list]  Test results
Message-ID: <CABWFOjtr1V51O_gjGQnpvFwE7aigBTk-R07A8VeeXeE2a8bX1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

>
> I am guessing, and I could be wrong, that there is very little interest on
> this
> list about the technical content of your serialization product. I think
> you are
> better off talking to the people on the C/C++ list that you had mentioned.
>
>
Things change though.  One day you are employed or in college.  The
next you are laid off or have dropped out of school.  Michael Dell dropped
out of college and still did OK.  Someone may not have much interest until
they need to make a living.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - "Our world is a college, events are teachers,
happiness is the graduating point, character is the diploma G-d gives
man."  Newell Dwight Hillis

http://webEbenezer.net
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Aug  9 13:19:17 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 18:19:17 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Test results
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjtr1V51O_gjGQnpvFwE7aigBTk-R07A8VeeXeE2a8bX1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjtr1V51O_gjGQnpvFwE7aigBTk-R07A8VeeXeE2a8bX1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170809181917.GE1635@nobelware.com>

> Things change though.  One day you are employed or in college.  The
> next you are laid off or have dropped out of school.  Michael Dell dropped
> out of college and still did OK.  Someone may not have much interest until
> they need to make a living.
>

Dell was, literaly, one in 7 billion. Read Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" on
some insight on randomness, chance and (unlikely) success.

For making a living, there are less esoteric ways of doing it, and for that
I direct you to Tim Ferris' "The Four Our Work Week" (I have not read his
latest book).

For those who try to break in an industry, I recommend "Crossing the Chasm,"
which may be of great interest to you Brian, and may help push your product
through.

On a related note, "The Rebel Sell" (no spelling error) was an amazing book,
written by the critics of also a decent book: "No Logo."


OK, back to work.


From eng at pinenet.com  Wed Aug  9 23:04:28 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 23:04:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Test results
In-Reply-To: <20170809181917.GE1635@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjtr1V51O_gjGQnpvFwE7aigBTk-R07A8VeeXeE2a8bX1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170809181917.GE1635@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <598BDB4C.8050902@pinenet.com>

I wish I was still smart enough to have opinions about computer 
technology trends. I don't even have a cell phone, and if I did who 
would I call, and if I had someone to call what would we talk about; 
politics, football??

Heck, I finally got license plates for a truck because the State of 
Minnesota failed computers 101 and forgot how to do their job anymore. 
Looks like nuclear war with North Korea, and drug war in Chicago, and 
who can watch what they call news anymore??

I think the most urgent job is to retrain medical employees for farming. 
Nobody can afford overgrown health care, and if your aren't sick they 
have some drugs for you to fix that. Meanwhile wide open Minnesota 
farmland and farm homes are going to rot for lack of farmers willing to 
grow good food and good communities. And finally climate change 
activists remembered agriculture; do a google of "agriculture climate." 
With quality rural internet and opensuse linux maybe the time to invent 
computing is nearly over, and the time to use it in new applications in 
new environments is just begun.

Iznogoud wrote:
>> Things change though.  One day you are employed or in college.  The
>> next you are laid off or have dropped out of school.  Michael Dell dropped
>> out of college and still did OK.  Someone may not have much interest until
>> they need to make a living.
>>
> Dell was, literaly, one in 7 billion. Read Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" on
> some insight on randomness, chance and (unlikely) success.
>
> For making a living, there are less esoteric ways of doing it, and for that
> I direct you to Tim Ferris' "The Four Our Work Week" (I have not read his
> latest book).
>
> For those who try to break in an industry, I recommend "Crossing the Chasm,"
> which may be of great interest to you Brian, and may help push your product
> through.
>
> On a related note, "The Rebel Sell" (no spelling error) was an amazing book,
> written by the critics of also a decent book: "No Logo."
>
>
> OK, back to work.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Aug 10 12:08:14 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 17:08:14 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Test results
In-Reply-To: <598BDB4C.8050902@pinenet.com>
References: <CABWFOjtr1V51O_gjGQnpvFwE7aigBTk-R07A8VeeXeE2a8bX1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170809181917.GE1635@nobelware.com> <598BDB4C.8050902@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20170810170814.GA19001@nobelware.com>

Read Lester Brown's "World On The Edge" and you will feel both helpless/sad
and hopeful. I have a signed copy!


From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Aug 10 16:24:14 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:24:14 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Test results
In-Reply-To: <20170810170814.GA19001@nobelware.com>
References: <CABWFOjtr1V51O_gjGQnpvFwE7aigBTk-R07A8VeeXeE2a8bX1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170809181917.GE1635@nobelware.com> <598BDB4C.8050902@pinenet.com>
 <20170810170814.GA19001@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <598CCEFE.3030807@pinenet.com>

Here is an invitation (from "The Great Plains Institute" in Mpls.) I am 
sharing (in part) with this group. They also have "happy hour" 
gatherings that would land me in a Mpls. jail. My daughter's wedding 
dinner was at the mentioned "historic" Landmark Center, the wedding at 
the "historic" JJHill Library across the park, we stayed at the 
"historic" St. Paul Hotel, but none of the California Apple attendees 
wanted to see the (for me) historic NWBell (now Century Link) building 
across the street that I roamed in the dark as an armed guard. During 
the wedding I resumed my guard role to make sure the homeless hungry in 
the park didn't appreciate the opportunity.

Rural Minnesota made Minnesota wealthy. From iron, to lumber, to 
agriculture. The twin cities had the Mississippi River, railroads, 
highways, communications. Most wealth is still is created in rural 
Minnesota. With good internet and great linux rural Minnesota is skills 
poor but potentially rich.

Again, you edited my reply. The poster described job uncertainty, and 
you replied. We need tech skilled people out here who can also take bug 
bites and frozen feet and foul odors.



Come celebrate with us this Oct. 11

View this email in your browser (http://mailchi.mp/gpisd/youre-invited-2671885?e=a94df77ff4)
http://www.betterenergy.org/GPICelebration?mc_cid=1d57cd2acc&mc_eid=[UNIQID]
OCTOBER 11, 2017
Saint Paul, Minnesota
Featuring conversations with leaders on
"Solutions from the Ground Up"

Come celebrate with us on October 11, 2017
at the historic Landmark Center in Saint Paul, Minnesota.

You're invited to the Great Plains Institute's 2017 Energy Innovation Celebration - our third annual event that elevates game-changing, innovative ideas in energy and connects the people and organizations driving progress and shaping our energy future.
We're taking things to a whole new level this year!
This year's celebration features more content and more opportunities to make connections and exchange ideas with the Better Energy community:

11:00 am   Registration
11:30 am   Welcome Luncheon
12:45 pm   Program: Solutions from the Ground Up - Celebrating collaborative action in cities to advance clean energy and address climate through engaging dialogue among leaders and small group discussion.
4:30 pm     Networking Reception
6:30 pm     Event Adjourns
Together, we can amplify the solutions that will achieve clean, efficient, and secure energy and generate greater impact locally and globally.
We hope you'll join us for this gathering of leaders!

Tickets are $150 and include the luncheon, program, and reception.
As a valued part of our community, we'd like to offer you an early bird discount of 25% off your ticket.

Use code EARLYBIRD25 to claim your discount.
https://register.eventmobi.com/GPICELEBRATION/landing?mc_cid=1d57cd2acc&mc_eid=[UNIQID]

This limited time offer is available through August 24th ? secure your spot today!
Stay tuned for speaker announcements and event updates:www.betterenergy.org/GPICelebration

Questions about the event can be directed toevents at gpisd.net  (mailto:events at gpisd.net?subject=Question%20-%20EIC) .
Copyright ? 2017 Great Plains Institute, All rights reserved.
  You are receiving this email because you signed up for a mailing list with the Great Plains Institute, Envision MN, or Metro CERT.

Our mailing address is:
Great Plains Institute
2801 21st Ave S
Suite 220
Minneapolis, MN 55407
USA

Iznogoud wrote:
> Read Lester Brown's "World On The Edge" and you will feel both helpless/sad
> and hopeful. I have a signed copy!
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From eng at pinenet.com  Fri Aug 11 05:51:07 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 05:51:07 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
Message-ID: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>

I got a very nice 10 disk set of Fedora 26 from OSDisc.com recently. It 
consisted of 1 Gnome and 1 KDE Live install each, and 8 repository 
disks. I had gotten similar sets of opensuse 12.2 and 11.3 years ago, so 
I had some experience with the tricky repository install. Opensuse 
online repositories can be tricky, too, so a permanent stable repository 
on disk is nice.

My question is, can Fedora really be so clumsy?? Is Gnome really so 
non-intuitive, and are they too smart to need a fine tuned cursor 
arrow?? KDE is reasonably familiar with opensuse but I can't figure out 
how to install packages from the Fedora repository. I have an ancient 
RedHat9 set I could figure out, but not Fedora. The opensuse Yast 
interface is great to help a user get past configuration and into 
development familiarity, but I would like to think I can be competent in 
alternative distros.

The best I can figure is the KDE tool "Discover" is supposed to 
construct a repository RPM database, but I don't see where it can be 
reconfigured to local disk storage.

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Aug 11 10:27:27 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:27:27 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20170811152727.GA912@nobelware.com>

I will try to answer only a couple of points, and it will not be very helpful.

I _totally_agree_ that you want to have a complete distribution on some easily
accessible medium, and you want to keep it around. If you keep getting updates
you may -and I am not saying that you will- run into trouble. You can always
play around with a system that was self-consistent when it was issued. VMs are
great for this kind of experimentation.

Gnome and KDE are "window managers" and modern window managers have taps (see
our discussion on dbus) to more functions that just the X server (your display
software that drives your screen). Those are highly configurable, but you need
to invest time to learn the philosophy behind them and how they are configured.

Sounds like you need a book on a given distro (pick one) and start diving into
the details. SuSE is very good. RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and all of that are good
and popular. Ubuntu is extremely popular, especially among n00bs. A book will
do it for you, because I know you have sparse to non-existent internet where
you live...


From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Fri Aug 11 10:46:34 2017
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:46:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can't speak for Fedora specifically, but on RHEL you add repos to txt
configs under /etc/yum.repos.d The files are ini style [setting] ...
key=value

Yes, unfortunately it can be that clumsy, I've used CentOS and Fedora
in the past, they drive me nuts with package management (as well as
the bloat).

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> I got a very nice 10 disk set of Fedora 26 from OSDisc.com recently. It
> consisted of 1 Gnome and 1 KDE Live install each, and 8 repository disks. I
> had gotten similar sets of opensuse 12.2 and 11.3 years ago, so I had some
> experience with the tricky repository install. Opensuse online repositories
> can be tricky, too, so a permanent stable repository on disk is nice.
>
> My question is, can Fedora really be so clumsy?? Is Gnome really so
> non-intuitive, and are they too smart to need a fine tuned cursor arrow??
> KDE is reasonably familiar with opensuse but I can't figure out how to
> install packages from the Fedora repository. I have an ancient RedHat9 set I
> could figure out, but not Fedora. The opensuse Yast interface is great to
> help a user get past configuration and into development familiarity, but I
> would like to think I can be competent in alternative distros.
>
> The best I can figure is the KDE tool "Discover" is supposed to construct a
> repository RPM database, but I don't see where it can be reconfigured to
> local disk storage.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From droidjd at gmail.com  Fri Aug 11 13:27:18 2017
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:27:18 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
 <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding Fedora repos, Fedora (and eventually RHEL) moved to dnf.  It's
just the next generation of yum, basically.

Adding repos is as easy as:  dnf config-manager --add-repo
https://atlassian.artifactoryonline.com/atlassian/hipchat-yum-client/hipchat4.repo


Repos still get added to /etc/yum.repos.d/  (because that makes sense -- I
expect that'll change eventually)

A good resource is the Fedora Sys Admin Guide, which should be on the CD
somewhere.  Online, you can find the chapter on dnf here:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/System_Administrators_Guide/ch-DNF.html

Otherwise if you're looking for a GUI for dnf that's a bit more user
friendly, I think PackageKit is what's being used right now.


On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can't speak for Fedora specifically, but on RHEL you add repos to txt
> configs under /etc/yum.repos.d The files are ini style [setting] ...
> key=value
>
> Yes, unfortunately it can be that clumsy, I've used CentOS and Fedora
> in the past, they drive me nuts with package management (as well as
> the bloat).
>
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> > I got a very nice 10 disk set of Fedora 26 from OSDisc.com recently. It
> > consisted of 1 Gnome and 1 KDE Live install each, and 8 repository
> disks. I
> > had gotten similar sets of opensuse 12.2 and 11.3 years ago, so I had
> some
> > experience with the tricky repository install. Opensuse online
> repositories
> > can be tricky, too, so a permanent stable repository on disk is nice.
> >
> > My question is, can Fedora really be so clumsy?? Is Gnome really so
> > non-intuitive, and are they too smart to need a fine tuned cursor arrow??
> > KDE is reasonably familiar with opensuse but I can't figure out how to
> > install packages from the Fedora repository. I have an ancient RedHat9
> set I
> > could figure out, but not Fedora. The opensuse Yast interface is great to
> > help a user get past configuration and into development familiarity, but
> I
> > would like to think I can be competent in alternative distros.
> >
> > The best I can figure is the KDE tool "Discover" is supposed to
> construct a
> > repository RPM database, but I don't see where it can be reconfigured to
> > local disk storage.
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Aug 11 14:37:52 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 19:37:52 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
 <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170811193752.GA10357@nobelware.com>

> 
> A good resource is the Fedora Sys Admin Guide, which should be on the CD
> somewhere.  Online, you can find the chapter on dnf here:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/System_Administrators_Guide/ch-DNF.html
> 

Get those PDFs Rick. If you have trouble chasing them down while online (on your
flacky internet), let me know and I will get them for you for a given version
and put them in a place where you can get them at once.


From eng at pinenet.com  Fri Aug 11 21:21:45 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:21:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
 <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <598E6639.2050805@pinenet.com>

Sincere thanks. I'll check your links for sure.

I tried doing what you advised, but did it poorly. Right now I have 2 
drives, one with KDE + repos, one with Gnome. From the Gnome drive 
accessing the repository at /dev/sdb2 /opt/repo didn't work. Opening the 
second drive from a file manager gave me a "media" mounted address by ID 
(I think?), so I'm guessing I'll have to edit /etc/fstab to automount 
the drive at boot (or something??). Trial and error. I have some RedHat 
Fedora books, the best I found was using a different http address, not a 
separate hard drive address. Definitely interested in your links, thanks.

I tried different GUI tools in KDE and Gnome. Again your links will help.

Reinstalling the Gnome was worth doing. It actually is smooth and simple 
with practice. Gnome is pretty primitive, however, and wastes time and 
high resolution video with disappearing menus, giant icons, and a nearly 
invisible giant pointer. It does look like an iPad GUI.

I unplug the wired network cable during install. They actually assume 
the user accepts tracking by WiFi, so that gets turned off, even though 
I have no WiFi. Very different kind of "workstation" computers these 
days. Network history "forever," too. At least I asked it for privacy, 
who knows if it really complied.

Andrew Dahl wrote:
> Regarding Fedora repos, Fedora (and eventually RHEL) moved to dnf.  It's
> just the next generation of yum, basically.
>
> Adding repos is as easy as:  dnf config-manager --add-repo
> https://atlassian.artifactoryonline.com/atlassian/hipchat-yum-client/hipchat4.repo
>
>
> Repos still get added to /etc/yum.repos.d/  (because that makes sense -- I
> expect that'll change eventually)
>
> A good resource is the Fedora Sys Admin Guide, which should be on the CD
> somewhere.  Online, you can find the chapter on dnf here:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/System_Administrators_Guide/ch-DNF.html
>
> Otherwise if you're looking for a GUI for dnf that's a bit more user
> friendly, I think PackageKit is what's being used right now.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
> jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can't speak for Fedora specifically, but on RHEL you add repos to txt
>> configs under /etc/yum.repos.d The files are ini style [setting] ...
>> key=value
>>
>> Yes, unfortunately it can be that clumsy, I've used CentOS and Fedora
>> in the past, they drive me nuts with package management (as well as
>> the bloat).
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
>>> I got a very nice 10 disk set of Fedora 26 from OSDisc.com recently. It
>>> consisted of 1 Gnome and 1 KDE Live install each, and 8 repository
>> disks. I
>>> had gotten similar sets of opensuse 12.2 and 11.3 years ago, so I had
>> some
>>> experience with the tricky repository install. Opensuse online
>> repositories
>>> can be tricky, too, so a permanent stable repository on disk is nice.
>>>
>>> My question is, can Fedora really be so clumsy?? Is Gnome really so
>>> non-intuitive, and are they too smart to need a fine tuned cursor arrow??
>>> KDE is reasonably familiar with opensuse but I can't figure out how to
>>> install packages from the Fedora repository. I have an ancient RedHat9
>> set I
>>> could figure out, but not Fedora. The opensuse Yast interface is great to
>>> help a user get past configuration and into development familiarity, but
>> I
>>> would like to think I can be competent in alternative distros.
>>>
>>> The best I can figure is the KDE tool "Discover" is supposed to
>> construct a
>>> repository RPM database, but I don't see where it can be reconfigured to
>>> local disk storage.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From eng at pinenet.com  Sat Aug 12 12:23:08 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:23:08 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <598E6639.2050805@pinenet.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
 <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <598E6639.2050805@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <598F397C.20404@pinenet.com>

I'm not going to say I know what I did, but it seems to be working now 
under KDE. And I'm rather excited for 2 reasons; there is a nice GUI 
installer "dnfdragora" and they include my old favorite text editor "nedit."

As best I recall, the repo installer already included an 
/etc/yum.repos.d/ file with proper path. I logged in as root, used 
"krusader" file manager, and used the "edit" and "view" internal editor 
because nothing else would open (like kwrite and dolphin). Instead of 
asking the dnf command to edit the ini files, I just set the enable 
variable to 0 and saved them. Only the local disk repo files were 
enabled. Then I ran "dnf makecache," which was the trick (I think). The 
KDE "Discover" software utility was poor, but the "dnfdragora" software 
program was able to build a "group database" and seems every bit as nice 
as the opensuse Yast software installer.

Anyway, 8 DVDs and 57GB of repository is a nice library. Just absolutely 
remember, UNPLUG your network wires sometimes!!

I really needed the System_Administrators_Guide link. Big thanks.



Rick Engebretson wrote:
> Sincere thanks. I'll check your links for sure.
>
> I tried doing what you advised, but did it poorly. Right now I have 2 
> drives, one with KDE + repos, one with Gnome. From the Gnome drive 
> accessing the repository at /dev/sdb2 /opt/repo didn't work. Opening 
> the second drive from a file manager gave me a "media" mounted address 
> by ID (I think?), so I'm guessing I'll have to edit /etc/fstab to 
> automount the drive at boot (or something??). Trial and error. I have 
> some RedHat Fedora books, the best I found was using a different http 
> address, not a separate hard drive address. Definitely interested in 
> your links, thanks.
>
> I tried different GUI tools in KDE and Gnome. Again your links will help.
>
> Reinstalling the Gnome was worth doing. It actually is smooth and 
> simple with practice. Gnome is pretty primitive, however, and wastes 
> time and high resolution video with disappearing menus, giant icons, 
> and a nearly invisible giant pointer. It does look like an iPad GUI.
>
> I unplug the wired network cable during install. They actually assume 
> the user accepts tracking by WiFi, so that gets turned off, even 
> though I have no WiFi. Very different kind of "workstation" computers 
> these days. Network history "forever," too. At least I asked it for 
> privacy, who knows if it really complied.
>
> Andrew Dahl wrote:
>> Regarding Fedora repos, Fedora (and eventually RHEL) moved to dnf.  It's
>> just the next generation of yum, basically.
>>
>> Adding repos is as easy as:  dnf config-manager --add-repo
>> https://atlassian.artifactoryonline.com/atlassian/hipchat-yum-client/hipchat4.repo 
>>
>>
>>
>> Repos still get added to /etc/yum.repos.d/  (because that makes sense 
>> -- I
>> expect that'll change eventually)
>>
>> A good resource is the Fedora Sys Admin Guide, which should be on the CD
>> somewhere.  Online, you can find the chapter on dnf here:
>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/System_Administrators_Guide/ch-DNF.html 
>>
>>
>> Otherwise if you're looking for a GUI for dnf that's a bit more user
>> friendly, I think PackageKit is what's being used right now.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
>> jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can't speak for Fedora specifically, but on RHEL you add repos to txt
>>> configs under /etc/yum.repos.d The files are ini style [setting] ...
>>> key=value
>>>
>>> Yes, unfortunately it can be that clumsy, I've used CentOS and Fedora
>>> in the past, they drive me nuts with package management (as well as
>>> the bloat).
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> I got a very nice 10 disk set of Fedora 26 from OSDisc.com 
>>>> recently. It
>>>> consisted of 1 Gnome and 1 KDE Live install each, and 8 repository
>>> disks. I
>>>> had gotten similar sets of opensuse 12.2 and 11.3 years ago, so I had
>>> some
>>>> experience with the tricky repository install. Opensuse online
>>> repositories
>>>> can be tricky, too, so a permanent stable repository on disk is nice.
>>>>
>>>> My question is, can Fedora really be so clumsy?? Is Gnome really so
>>>> non-intuitive, and are they too smart to need a fine tuned cursor 
>>>> arrow??
>>>> KDE is reasonably familiar with opensuse but I can't figure out how to
>>>> install packages from the Fedora repository. I have an ancient RedHat9
>>> set I
>>>> could figure out, but not Fedora. The opensuse Yast interface is 
>>>> great to
>>>> help a user get past configuration and into development 
>>>> familiarity, but
>>> I
>>>> would like to think I can be competent in alternative distros.
>>>>
>>>> The best I can figure is the KDE tool "Discover" is supposed to
>>> construct a
>>>> repository RPM database, but I don't see where it can be 
>>>> reconfigured to
>>>> local disk storage.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>


From droidjd at gmail.com  Sat Aug 12 13:26:56 2017
From: droidjd at gmail.com (Andrew Dahl)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 18:26:56 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <598F397C.20404@pinenet.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
 <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <598E6639.2050805@pinenet.com> <598F397C.20404@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <CAFjzMdxjHi8RpbxwBRJp8gYBE8UdZZ00sWAFjVU0dUFMDkFXFw@mail.gmail.com>

SysAdmin Guide PDF is here:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/26/pdf/System_Administrators_Guide/Fedora-26-System_Administrators_Guide-en-US.pdf

I don't imagine you'd need it, but, just in case, the Installation Guide
PDF is here:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/26/pdf/Installation_Guide/Fedora-26-Installation_Guide-en-US.pdf

Also, not to complicate matters even more, but if you like Gnome but hate
Gnome 3, Cinnamon is worth checking out.  I believe it's as simple as sudo
dnf install @cinnamon-desktop



On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 12:23 PM Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:

> I'm not going to say I know what I did, but it seems to be working now
> under KDE. And I'm rather excited for 2 reasons; there is a nice GUI
> installer "dnfdragora" and they include my old favorite text editor
> "nedit."
>
> As best I recall, the repo installer already included an
> /etc/yum.repos.d/ file with proper path. I logged in as root, used
> "krusader" file manager, and used the "edit" and "view" internal editor
> because nothing else would open (like kwrite and dolphin). Instead of
> asking the dnf command to edit the ini files, I just set the enable
> variable to 0 and saved them. Only the local disk repo files were
> enabled. Then I ran "dnf makecache," which was the trick (I think). The
> KDE "Discover" software utility was poor, but the "dnfdragora" software
> program was able to build a "group database" and seems every bit as nice
> as the opensuse Yast software installer.
>
> Anyway, 8 DVDs and 57GB of repository is a nice library. Just absolutely
> remember, UNPLUG your network wires sometimes!!
>
> I really needed the System_Administrators_Guide link. Big thanks.
>
>
>
> Rick Engebretson wrote:
> > Sincere thanks. I'll check your links for sure.
> >
> > I tried doing what you advised, but did it poorly. Right now I have 2
> > drives, one with KDE + repos, one with Gnome. From the Gnome drive
> > accessing the repository at /dev/sdb2 /opt/repo didn't work. Opening
> > the second drive from a file manager gave me a "media" mounted address
> > by ID (I think?), so I'm guessing I'll have to edit /etc/fstab to
> > automount the drive at boot (or something??). Trial and error. I have
> > some RedHat Fedora books, the best I found was using a different http
> > address, not a separate hard drive address. Definitely interested in
> > your links, thanks.
> >
> > I tried different GUI tools in KDE and Gnome. Again your links will help.
> >
> > Reinstalling the Gnome was worth doing. It actually is smooth and
> > simple with practice. Gnome is pretty primitive, however, and wastes
> > time and high resolution video with disappearing menus, giant icons,
> > and a nearly invisible giant pointer. It does look like an iPad GUI.
> >
> > I unplug the wired network cable during install. They actually assume
> > the user accepts tracking by WiFi, so that gets turned off, even
> > though I have no WiFi. Very different kind of "workstation" computers
> > these days. Network history "forever," too. At least I asked it for
> > privacy, who knows if it really complied.
> >
> > Andrew Dahl wrote:
> >> Regarding Fedora repos, Fedora (and eventually RHEL) moved to dnf.  It's
> >> just the next generation of yum, basically.
> >>
> >> Adding repos is as easy as:  dnf config-manager --add-repo
> >>
> https://atlassian.artifactoryonline.com/atlassian/hipchat-yum-client/hipchat4.repo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Repos still get added to /etc/yum.repos.d/  (because that makes sense
> >> -- I
> >> expect that'll change eventually)
> >>
> >> A good resource is the Fedora Sys Admin Guide, which should be on the CD
> >> somewhere.  Online, you can find the chapter on dnf here:
> >>
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/System_Administrators_Guide/ch-DNF.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Otherwise if you're looking for a GUI for dnf that's a bit more user
> >> friendly, I think PackageKit is what's being used right now.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
> >> jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Can't speak for Fedora specifically, but on RHEL you add repos to txt
> >>> configs under /etc/yum.repos.d The files are ini style [setting] ...
> >>> key=value
> >>>
> >>> Yes, unfortunately it can be that clumsy, I've used CentOS and Fedora
> >>> in the past, they drive me nuts with package management (as well as
> >>> the bloat).
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> >>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> I got a very nice 10 disk set of Fedora 26 from OSDisc.com
> >>>> recently. It
> >>>> consisted of 1 Gnome and 1 KDE Live install each, and 8 repository
> >>> disks. I
> >>>> had gotten similar sets of opensuse 12.2 and 11.3 years ago, so I had
> >>> some
> >>>> experience with the tricky repository install. Opensuse online
> >>> repositories
> >>>> can be tricky, too, so a permanent stable repository on disk is nice.
> >>>>
> >>>> My question is, can Fedora really be so clumsy?? Is Gnome really so
> >>>> non-intuitive, and are they too smart to need a fine tuned cursor
> >>>> arrow??
> >>>> KDE is reasonably familiar with opensuse but I can't figure out how to
> >>>> install packages from the Fedora repository. I have an ancient RedHat9
> >>> set I
> >>>> could figure out, but not Fedora. The opensuse Yast interface is
> >>>> great to
> >>>> help a user get past configuration and into development
> >>>> familiarity, but
> >>> I
> >>>> would like to think I can be competent in alternative distros.
> >>>>
> >>>> The best I can figure is the KDE tool "Discover" is supposed to
> >>> construct a
> >>>> repository RPM database, but I don't see where it can be
> >>>> reconfigured to
> >>>> local disk storage.
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From eng at pinenet.com  Sat Aug 12 20:23:45 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 20:23:45 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fedora 26 32bit
In-Reply-To: <CAFjzMdxjHi8RpbxwBRJp8gYBE8UdZZ00sWAFjVU0dUFMDkFXFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598D8C1B.1010500@pinenet.com>
 <CACEdYO2f7vOdmdM+9KMQpuzck9K3nq7GOr99XOyxsjEA7zAnVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFjzMdyF-+XR=2O9kBvMGcKOJHh0DAoE0tfPAy3R=g+Txqjwuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <598E6639.2050805@pinenet.com> <598F397C.20404@pinenet.com>
 <CAFjzMdxjHi8RpbxwBRJp8gYBE8UdZZ00sWAFjVU0dUFMDkFXFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <598FAA21.5070902@pinenet.com>

Thanks, I'll try Cinnamon some day and grab the pdfs, too.

I did try XFCE, IceWM, and liked Gnome Classic, and saw it installed 
Gnome Xorg desktop (but I didn't try it). This was all on a Intel 
D915GUX mobo / pentium4 hyper-threading CPU / 3GB memory / Intel GMA900 
desktop graphics, so it was a rock bottom 10 year old hardware platform 
and still no hint of a crash. But it did bog down. Another fun find was 
Gnome Commander, banned for a decade and replaced by Nautilus. So this 
system is full of options, top to bottom, not just the "live installs."

I would think such a locked repository could be useful for a school, 
with competent instructors (sys-admins) and decent hardware. A lifetime 
worth of learning and participation.

Andrew Dahl wrote:
> SysAdmin Guide PDF is here:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/26/pdf/System_Administrators_Guide/Fedora-26-System_Administrators_Guide-en-US.pdf
>
> I don't imagine you'd need it, but, just in case, the Installation Guide
> PDF is here:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/26/pdf/Installation_Guide/Fedora-26-Installation_Guide-en-US.pdf
>
> Also, not to complicate matters even more, but if you like Gnome but hate
> Gnome 3, Cinnamon is worth checking out.  I believe it's as simple as sudo
> dnf install @cinnamon-desktop
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 12:23 PM Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not going to say I know what I did, but it seems to be working now
>> under KDE. And I'm rather excited for 2 reasons; there is a nice GUI
>> installer "dnfdragora" and they include my old favorite text editor
>> "nedit."
>>
>> As best I recall, the repo installer already included an
>> /etc/yum.repos.d/ file with proper path. I logged in as root, used
>> "krusader" file manager, and used the "edit" and "view" internal editor
>> because nothing else would open (like kwrite and dolphin). Instead of
>> asking the dnf command to edit the ini files, I just set the enable
>> variable to 0 and saved them. Only the local disk repo files were
>> enabled. Then I ran "dnf makecache," which was the trick (I think). The
>> KDE "Discover" software utility was poor, but the "dnfdragora" software
>> program was able to build a "group database" and seems every bit as nice
>> as the opensuse Yast software installer.
>>
>> Anyway, 8 DVDs and 57GB of repository is a nice library. Just absolutely
>> remember, UNPLUG your network wires sometimes!!
>>
>> I really needed the System_Administrators_Guide link. Big thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Engebretson wrote:
>>> Sincere thanks. I'll check your links for sure.
>>>
>>> I tried doing what you advised, but did it poorly. Right now I have 2
>>> drives, one with KDE + repos, one with Gnome. From the Gnome drive
>>> accessing the repository at /dev/sdb2 /opt/repo didn't work. Opening
>>> the second drive from a file manager gave me a "media" mounted address
>>> by ID (I think?), so I'm guessing I'll have to edit /etc/fstab to
>>> automount the drive at boot (or something??). Trial and error. I have
>>> some RedHat Fedora books, the best I found was using a different http
>>> address, not a separate hard drive address. Definitely interested in
>>> your links, thanks.
>>>
>>> I tried different GUI tools in KDE and Gnome. Again your links will help.
>>>
>>> Reinstalling the Gnome was worth doing. It actually is smooth and
>>> simple with practice. Gnome is pretty primitive, however, and wastes
>>> time and high resolution video with disappearing menus, giant icons,
>>> and a nearly invisible giant pointer. It does look like an iPad GUI.
>>>
>>> I unplug the wired network cable during install. They actually assume
>>> the user accepts tracking by WiFi, so that gets turned off, even
>>> though I have no WiFi. Very different kind of "workstation" computers
>>> these days. Network history "forever," too. At least I asked it for
>>> privacy, who knows if it really complied.
>>>
>>> Andrew Dahl wrote:
>>>> Regarding Fedora repos, Fedora (and eventually RHEL) moved to dnf.  It's
>>>> just the next generation of yum, basically.
>>>>
>>>> Adding repos is as easy as:  dnf config-manager --add-repo
>>>>
>> https://atlassian.artifactoryonline.com/atlassian/hipchat-yum-client/hipchat4.repo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Repos still get added to /etc/yum.repos.d/  (because that makes sense
>>>> -- I
>>>> expect that'll change eventually)
>>>>
>>>> A good resource is the Fedora Sys Admin Guide, which should be on the CD
>>>> somewhere.  Online, you can find the chapter on dnf here:
>>>>
>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/System_Administrators_Guide/ch-DNF.html
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise if you're looking for a GUI for dnf that's a bit more user
>>>> friendly, I think PackageKit is what's being used right now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Jeremy MountainJohnson <
>>>> jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can't speak for Fedora specifically, but on RHEL you add repos to txt
>>>>> configs under /etc/yum.repos.d The files are ini style [setting] ...
>>>>> key=value
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, unfortunately it can be that clumsy, I've used CentOS and Fedora
>>>>> in the past, they drive me nuts with package management (as well as
>>>>> the bloat).
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jeremy MountainJohnson
>>>>> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I got a very nice 10 disk set of Fedora 26 from OSDisc.com
>>>>>> recently. It
>>>>>> consisted of 1 Gnome and 1 KDE Live install each, and 8 repository
>>>>> disks. I
>>>>>> had gotten similar sets of opensuse 12.2 and 11.3 years ago, so I had
>>>>> some
>>>>>> experience with the tricky repository install. Opensuse online
>>>>> repositories
>>>>>> can be tricky, too, so a permanent stable repository on disk is nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is, can Fedora really be so clumsy?? Is Gnome really so
>>>>>> non-intuitive, and are they too smart to need a fine tuned cursor
>>>>>> arrow??
>>>>>> KDE is reasonably familiar with opensuse but I can't figure out how to
>>>>>> install packages from the Fedora repository. I have an ancient RedHat9
>>>>> set I
>>>>>> could figure out, but not Fedora. The opensuse Yast interface is
>>>>>> great to
>>>>>> help a user get past configuration and into development
>>>>>> familiarity, but
>>>>> I
>>>>>> would like to think I can be competent in alternative distros.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The best I can figure is the KDE tool "Discover" is supposed to
>>>>> construct a
>>>>>> repository RPM database, but I don't see where it can be
>>>>>> reconfigured to
>>>>>> local disk storage.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Mon Aug 21 17:55:25 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:55:25 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
Message-ID: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings

I am trying to effect a server installation comprising of

Apache2
Postgresql
php7.0

On an initial attempt to do this a mountain of problems were uncovered.
It would seem that there is a preferred order in which to do things.
I.e. to achieve the expected result with a minimum of pain.
Some of the 'guides' download everything all at once and then work at
setting things up and configuring things. There seem to be some different
possibilities for order i.e.

1. database
2. php
3. apache

or
1. apache
2. database
3. connect the two
4. php

Is there anyone who has an install 'recipe' that works for installing

1. Postgresql
2. web server (haven't used any so am open just want good reasons as to why
the recommendation)
3. php (because that is what one has to use to get web sites to work aiui!)

TIA

Dee
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Mon Aug 21 18:39:58 2017
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 18:39:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>

On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 17:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> I am trying to effect a server installation comprising of?
> 
> Apache2
> Postgresql
> php7.0
> 
> On an initial attempt to do this a mountain of problems were
> uncovered.
> It would seem that there is a preferred order in which to do things.
> I.e. to achieve the expected result with a minimum of pain.
> Some of the 'guides' download everything all at once and then work at
> setting things up and configuring things. There seem to be some
> different possibilities for order i.e.?
> 
> 1. database?
> 2. php
> 3. apache
> 
> or?
> 1. apache
> 2. database
> 3. connect the two?
> 4. php
> 
> Is there anyone who has an install 'recipe' that works for
> installing?
> 
> 1. Postgresql
> 2. web server (haven't used any so am open just want good reasons as
> to why the recommendation)
> 3. php (because that is what one has to use to get web sites to work
> aiui!)
> 
> TIA
> 
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
Hi Dee - Have you looked at?https://supermarket.chef.io/, there's also
a tutorial at?http://gettingstartedwithchef.com/?that sets up a website
using Chef recipes and a cookbook:
Our first Chef cookbook

        So, what do we need to do to get our web server up and running?


        
 * Install and configure Apache

 * Install and configure MySQL

 * Install and configure PHP

 * Deploy our website code to the site
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From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Mon Aug 21 19:32:42 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:32:42 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:39 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 17:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> I am trying to effect a server installation comprising of
>
> Apache2
> Postgresql
> php7.0
>
> On an initial attempt to do this a mountain of problems were uncovered.
> It would seem that there is a preferred order in which to do things.
> I.e. to achieve the expected result with a minimum of pain.
> Some of the 'guides' download everything all at once and then work at
> setting things up and configuring things. There seem to be some different
> possibilities for order i.e.
>
> 1. database
> 2. php
> 3. apache
>
> or
> 1. apache
> 2. database
> 3. connect the two
> 4. php
>
> Is there anyone who has an install 'recipe' that works for installing
>
> 1. Postgresql
> 2. web server (haven't used any so am open just want good reasons as to
> why the recommendation)
> 3. php (because that is what one has to use to get web sites to work aiui!)
>
> TIA
>
> Dee
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> Hi Dee - Have you looked at https://supermarket.chef.io/, there's also a
> tutorial at http://gettingstartedwithchef.com/ that sets up a website
> using Chef recipes and a cookbook:
>

Greetings

The tutorial is quite detailed. My concern would be that I was having lots
of issues getting apache2 and php7.0 working. This adds another layer of
complexity.
Chef doesn't seem to use postgresql as primary database, websites seem to
have to have wordpress (I've seen a few too many security bulletins about
that one) and then they like the cloud (something I'm not going to touch).

Thanks for the idea though - - - had never heard of 'chef'.

Dee
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Mon Aug 21 19:50:33 2017
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:50:33 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com>

On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 19:32 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:39 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 17:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> > > Greetings
> > > 
> > > I am trying to effect a server installation comprising of?
> > > 
> > > Apache2
> > > Postgresql
> > > php7.0
> > > 
> > > On an initial attempt to do this a mountain of problems were
> > > uncovered.
> > > It would seem that there is a preferred order in which to do
> > > things.
> > > I.e. to achieve the expected result with a minimum of pain.
> > > Some of the 'guides' download everything all at once and then
> > > work at setting things up and configuring things. There seem to
> > > be some different possibilities for order i.e.?
> > > 
> > > 1. database?
> > > 2. php
> > > 3. apache
> > > 
> > > or?
> > > 1. apache
> > > 2. database
> > > 3. connect the two?
> > > 4. php
> > > 
> > > Is there anyone who has an install 'recipe' that works for
> > > installing?
> > > 
> > > 1. Postgresql
> > > 2. web server (haven't used any so am open just want good reasons
> > > as to why the recommendation)
> > > 3. php (because that is what one has to use to get web sites to
> > > work aiui!)
> > > 
> > > TIA
> > > 
> > > Dee
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > Hi Dee - Have you looked at?https://supermarket.chef.io/, there's
> > also a tutorial at?http://gettingstartedwithchef.com/?that sets up
> > a website using Chef recipes and a cookbook:
> > 
> Greetings
> 
> The tutorial is quite detailed. My concern would be that I was having
> lots of issues getting apache2 and php7.0 working. This adds another
> layer of complexity.
> Chef doesn't seem to use postgresql as primary database, websites
> seem to have to have wordpress (I've seen a few too many security
> bulletins about that one) and then they like the cloud (something I'm
> not going to touch).
> 
> Thanks for the idea though - - - had never heard of 'chef'.
> 
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
Hi Dee -
Chef is a tool to configure what you need in an idempotent manner. The
tutorial was an example of setting up a website with all of its
software installs and dependencies.?
If you are doing a one-off setup, look at the tutorial as a means to
set up your own dependencies manually.?
If you may need to repeat this setup one or more times in the future
and get the same exact results (using different URLs or not), then you
probably should look into using a tool like Opscode's Chef (or
Dockerfiles and Docker, or Vagrantfiles and Vagrant, or Puppet, or
ansible, ... - there are many ways to skin this cat and this problem
has been solved for many use cases already, don't reinvent the wheel
here is all that I'm saying)
Just trying to help...
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From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Mon Aug 21 21:47:31 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 21:47:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf59E-S6c7+NvC0T+jCP__Jp-Y=2iMToo9GJjpfsZfadwdA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 7:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 19:32 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:39 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 17:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> I am trying to effect a server installation comprising of
>
> Apache2
> Postgresql
> php7.0
>
> On an initial attempt to do this a mountain of problems were uncovered.
> It would seem that there is a preferred order in which to do things.
> I.e. to achieve the expected result with a minimum of pain.
> Some of the 'guides' download everything all at once and then work at
> setting things up and configuring things. There seem to be some different
> possibilities for order i.e.
>
> 1. database
> 2. php
> 3. apache
>
> or
> 1. apache
> 2. database
> 3. connect the two
> 4. php
>
> Is there anyone who has an install 'recipe' that works for installing
>
> 1. Postgresql
> 2. web server (haven't used any so am open just want good reasons as to
> why the recommendation)
> 3. php (because that is what one has to use to get web sites to work aiui!)
>
> TIA
>
> Dee
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> Hi Dee - Have you looked at https://supermarket.chef.io/, there's also a
> tutorial at http://gettingstartedwithchef.com/ that sets up a website
> using Chef recipes and a cookbook:
>
>
> Greetings
>
> The tutorial is quite detailed. My concern would be that I was having lots
> of issues getting apache2 and php7.0 working. This adds another layer of
> complexity.
> Chef doesn't seem to use postgresql as primary database, websites seem to
> have to have wordpress (I've seen a few too many security bulletins about
> that one) and then they like the cloud (something I'm not going to touch).
>
> Thanks for the idea though - - - had never heard of 'chef'.
>
> Dee
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesotatclug-list at mn-linux.orghttp://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> Hi Dee -
>
> Chef is a tool to configure what you need in an idempotent manner. The
> tutorial was an example of setting up a website with all of its software
> installs and dependencies.
>
> If you are doing a one-off setup, look at the tutorial as a means to set
> up your own dependencies manually.
>
> If you may need to repeat this setup one or more times in the future and
> get the same exact results (using different URLs or not), then you probably
> should look into using a tool like Opscode's Chef (or Dockerfiles and
> Docker, or Vagrantfiles and Vagrant, or Puppet, or ansible, ... - there are
> many ways to skin this cat and this problem has been solved for many use
> cases already, don't reinvent the wheel here is all that I'm saying)
>
> Looked at Docker, have been using virtualbox, now also looking into
lxc/lxd.
There just are so many way to do this and few paths that don't create that
wonderful vertical learning curve so endemic to linux.


> Just trying to help...
>

I appreciate it - - - just not sure that this tool (chef and its group) is
what I need for my long term.
(There are so many things to do and I would rather be working on doing
things that beating my head against the wall trying to figure out the
arcanities in too many software setup scenarios - - - sorry.)

Thank you for your ideas!!!!

Dee
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 22 08:51:05 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:51:05 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20170822135105.GA5241@nobelware.com>

Did not know of Chef.

Maybe I am missing something, but what is this server that needs those services
running? Is it a virtualized server? Is it something internal to a domain and
is a physical box?

Most distributions will allow you to use existing packages that put together
those services on the distribution of choice, and setup time is minimal. And
if you are using a VM (virtualized server) that somebody else provides, they
most certainly have instructions on how to do it. I used Slicehost (RackSpace)
over 8 years ago and their instructions were spot-on. (This email is coming to
you from that VM.)


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Tue Aug 22 09:43:58 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:43:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <20170822135105.GA5241@nobelware.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com> <20170822135105.GA5241@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5_Z-UHcFmS17d=4iqMLU=US719RzuTTwYRuutp5Kc+cWw@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings

Did some more investigating and so my question is morphing slightly - - -
sorry!

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:51 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Did not know of Chef.
>
> Maybe I am missing something, but what is this server that needs those
> services
> running? Is it a virtualized server? Is it something internal to a domain
> and
> is a physical box?
>

I am working on a number of different things.

1. a local server that could (and hopefully will) enable me to run my
business
       this is at least one physical box (and maybe more)
       (looking at adding a large number of inputs from a variety of
different sources
          AND processes)
2. a hosted server (my guess is this is virtualized)
      this is for website setup and presentation

>
> Most distributions will allow you to use existing packages that put
> together
> those services on the distribution of choice, and setup time is minimal.
> And
> if you are using a VM (virtualized server) that somebody else provides,
> they
> most certainly have instructions on how to do it. I used Slicehost
> (RackSpace)
> over 8 years ago and their instructions were spot-on. (This email is
> coming to
> you from that VM.)
>

That was/is my initial point but . . .

In my reading over the years it would seem that Postgresql has more
'whatevers'
(can't remember the exact term) that make for a very robust database for
business
financial use. This was such that 12 to 15 years ago its was 'Mysql is not
really
applicable for business (read financial) use'. That difference may not be
present
today but I would still like to be using Postgresql for my 'stuff'.
Further complicating things Mariadb is beginning to replace Mysql due to  -
- -
let's say a number of factors. Another factor is that my hosting provider
ONLY
supports Mysql.
Somehow I want/need to learn website development and support and to do this
I would like to setup something like a mirror at least between here, at
home, and
at the official host.

I'm not sure I'm explaining things well or that I even understand what I'm
trying to
do. Just know that I need to learn how to do this stuff.

(One example of something I would like to use is Horde Groupware for
business
connections, meaning at least employee communication and scheduling (if not
somewhat more).

Further questions, hopefully, cheerfully entertained - - - :-)    !

TIA

Dee
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 22 12:10:48 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:10:48 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5_Z-UHcFmS17d=4iqMLU=US719RzuTTwYRuutp5Kc+cWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com> <20170822135105.GA5241@nobelware.com>
 <CAPpdf5_Z-UHcFmS17d=4iqMLU=US719RzuTTwYRuutp5Kc+cWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170822171048.GA11585@nobelware.com>

Dee, the person who I trust would provide the best advice on business dev. and
IT is randy (rhayman) who repsonded ealier. I trust that he will point you in
the right direction.

I will offer my 2 cents in hope that it will help you.

You can host websites, etc, on a VM that is managed by an external third party,
and I recommend that. It will cost you $10 a month of business expenses. They
do throttle traffic with appropriate pricing, but they generally know to protect
you from Chinese attacks, etc. It has worked for me for many years.

A VM some place else will give you PHP over an Apache with a MySQL backend.
Some places will offer the MySQL (or similar) as a service, meaning your system
will be making queries to an SQL server that is running somewhere else. For
website content there should be no real issue (no sensitive data to protect
unless you do e-commerce over it). I am guessing most people do this and direct
the e-commerce aspect to server over which they have more control or to other
fourth parties.

Regarding keeping records and running your business, you will need a very
robust solution -- this is where I trust Randy's input. Generally speaking,
you want some UPS to power your system if it is in house, and to have all the
right redundancy in terms of disk RAID. This is for the system that will serve
most things to your business and do some log-, book-keeping of data with SQL.
A Linux kernel with a robust OS will do all of that and more and robustly. You
can self-manage it.

Starting with MySQL is fine. It is rock-solid. Suppose you want to transition
to another softwre or system, you can extract the tables of the MySQL and use
them, possibly after re-formatting them, in a different software database.

You can automatically store copies (mirror) the SQL tables and other data on
an hourly, or day-by-day basis, etc. People like Randy would know how to set
it up for you. That is what consultants are for.

My final thought is to take very good notes of how the system is setup. It
will help you, and any external person who may need to help you in the future,
get a handle of things right away.


You will be fine. Good luck with your business venture!

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Aug 22 14:28:04 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:28:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
Message-ID: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>

It's Gimp 2.8.20.  It is unusable -- no menus!!

What the heck is going on here?  Ubuntu used to just work.  Now with
17.04 it crashes daily, and *very* severely (worse than BSOD -- I wish
I could have BSOD instead!), and now I can't even use Gimp.

I searched for solutions to the Gimp problem.  They were all for 16.04
and none of them worked.

I have been using Ubuntu since the early days and I've never had any
problems.  This is ridiculous.

I can't believe after all these years that Ubuntu is failing me so completely.

I guess I have to install 16.04 LTS and see if that works.  Unbelievable.

Another crazy thing was the first time I opened Chromium-browser, it
took about 2 minutes to start, so I spent an hour reading stuff and
tweaking things -- I guess it had to do with gnome keyring.  It was a
nightmare and I have no idea if I fixed it correctly.  You read all
these guesses from other users and at least half the time they are
wrong, do nothing, or maybe cause some unknown damage.

Windows and OSX are not of any interest.  It has to be Linux, but a
solution that works would be nice!

I do feel a little better having said that!

Mike

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 22 16:49:27 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 21:49:27 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
In-Reply-To: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>

> 
> I do feel a little better having said that!
>

That's what I was expecting to read while scrolling down!

Hey, for a free OS that, at least, installed correctly the first time, we should
have no coomplaints... How spoiled are we in the First World! (But this sort
of rant would come from an Ubuntu user!)

rhayman said recently that he uses only latest TLS and suggested the 16.xx. 
I hope you made a backup before installing this 17.xx release. With Linux it
is very easy to go back to what you had working as if nothing ever happened.
learn how to do that before doing anything else. My 2 euro-cents.


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Tue Aug 22 17:51:00 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:51:00 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
In-Reply-To: <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>
References: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CALuKVvvsp6NyjXJ+=df+fTYQ+9kN2eWiOM9w_sq+F6DxDF-SWQ@mail.gmail.com>

The 17.04 install was on a new machine.  I did not have any problems
with 17.04 upgrades.  I don't know what's going on, but I'm working
now on moving that machine back to 16.04, which is an LTS release.

What is the best practice for doing that?  Anyone know?  I have
everything backed up.  It would be nice if I could replace the current
Ubuntu 17.04 with the 16.04 without having to worry about my old
files.  They are all backed up, but I don't want them to interfere
with the new installation.  I hope it can just write over everything
in /bin, /lib, /var, /etc and leave my files in /home.  I wouldn't
want my $HOME files to mess anything up.  Maybe I should rename that
directory before creating my account with the same username.

Mike

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>
>> I do feel a little better having said that!
>>
>
> That's what I was expecting to read while scrolling down!
>
> Hey, for a free OS that, at least, installed correctly the first time, we should
> have no coomplaints... How spoiled are we in the First World! (But this sort
> of rant would come from an Ubuntu user!)
>
> rhayman said recently that he uses only latest TLS and suggested the 16.xx.
> I hope you made a backup before installing this 17.xx release. With Linux it
> is very easy to go back to what you had working as if nothing ever happened.
> learn how to do that before doing anything else. My 2 euro-cents.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 22 19:53:32 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 00:53:32 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
In-Reply-To: <CALuKVvvsp6NyjXJ+=df+fTYQ+9kN2eWiOM9w_sq+F6DxDF-SWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvvsp6NyjXJ+=df+fTYQ+9kN2eWiOM9w_sq+F6DxDF-SWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170823005332.GA28653@nobelware.com>

Mike,
Without knowing exactly how Ubuntu deals with a new installation on a disk that
already has partitions (and not being an Ubuntu user) I cannot tell you that I
have a cookbook solution. But what I can tell you is that any sane distro will
ask you were to install the root directory "/" and certainly whether to do
any formatting of the existing partition. I'd rename the /home to /home_OLD
and go with a fresh install step-by-step minus any formatting.

Booting and having a proper boot-loader is the crucial part. It will likely
place grub where it should be in a partition that will be mounted as /boot
under the new system. In essence, even if you wiped /bin /usr and all of that
clean, the system would be new from scratch anyway and with /home_OLD untouched.

If you really paranoid, mount a USB drive with any filesystem on it (it can
be an NTFC) and do this:

'rsync -av /home/ /mnt/where_USB_is_mounted/home_TRANSFER/'

You can always recover from there if anything goes wrong.

From rhayman at pureice.com  Tue Aug 22 20:14:26 2017
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 20:14:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf59E-S6c7+NvC0T+jCP__Jp-Y=2iMToo9GJjpfsZfadwdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf59TvoPrkMLGo29VgdvDbNKGLDFMRJccxoK8_p+fzv+HpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503358798.2962.7.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAPpdf5-3FsmrpufrxoxoQ3CRJ9VGXaq8jUTkoAXaTpA=EBdX2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1503363033.2962.15.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAPpdf59E-S6c7+NvC0T+jCP__Jp-Y=2iMToo9GJjpfsZfadwdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503450866.2962.34.camel@pureice.com>

On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 21:47 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 7:50 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 19:32 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:39 PM, r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 2017-08-21 at 17:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> > > > > Greetings
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am trying to effect a server installation comprising of?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Apache2
> > > > > Postgresql
> > > > > php7.0
> > > > > 
> > > > > On an initial attempt to do this a mountain of problems were
> > > > > uncovered.
> > > > > It would seem that there is a preferred order in which to do
> > > > > things.
> > > > > I.e. to achieve the expected result with a minimum of pain.
> > > > > Some of the 'guides' download everything all at once and then
> > > > > work at setting things up and configuring things. There seem
> > > > > to be some different possibilities for order i.e.?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. database?
> > > > > 2. php
> > > > > 3. apache
> > > > > 
> > > > > or?
> > > > > 1. apache
> > > > > 2. database
> > > > > 3. connect the two?
> > > > > 4. php
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is there anyone who has an install 'recipe' that works for
> > > > > installing?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. Postgresql
> > > > > 2. web server (haven't used any so am open just want good
> > > > > reasons as to why the recommendation)
> > > > > 3. php (because that is what one has to use to get web sites
> > > > > to work aiui!)
> > > > > 
> > > > > TIA
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dee
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > > > Hi Dee - Have you looked at?https://supermarket.chef.io/,
> > > > there's also a tutorial at?http://gettingstartedwithchef.com/?t
> > > > hat sets up a website using Chef recipes and a cookbook:
> > > > 
> > > Greetings
> > > 
> > > The tutorial is quite detailed. My concern would be that I was
> > > having lots of issues getting apache2 and php7.0 working. This
> > > adds another layer of complexity.
> > > Chef doesn't seem to use postgresql as primary database, websites
> > > seem to have to have wordpress (I've seen a few too many security
> > > bulletins about that one) and then they like the cloud (something
> > > I'm not going to touch).
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the idea though - - - had never heard of 'chef'.
> > > 
> > > Dee
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> > Hi Dee -
> > 
> > Chef is a tool to configure what you need in an idempotent manner.
> > The tutorial was an example of setting up a website with all of its
> > software installs and dependencies.?
> > 
> > If you are doing a one-off setup, look at the tutorial as a means
> > to set up your own dependencies manually.?
> > 
> > If you may need to repeat this setup one or more times in the
> > future and get the same exact results (using different URLs or
> > not), then you probably should look into using a tool like
> > Opscode's Chef (or Dockerfiles and Docker, or Vagrantfiles and
> > Vagrant, or Puppet, or ansible, ... - there are many ways to skin
> > this cat and this problem has been solved for many use cases
> > already, don't reinvent the wheel here is all that I'm saying)
> > 
> > 
> Looked at Docker, have been using virtualbox, now also looking into
> lxc/lxd.
> There just are so many way to do this and few paths that don't create
> that wonderful vertical learning curve so endemic to linux.
> ?
> > Just trying to help...
> > 
> I appreciate it - - - just not sure that this tool (chef and its
> group) is what I need for my long term.
> (There are so many things to do and I would rather be working on
> doing things that beating my head against the wall trying to figure
> out the arcanities in too many software setup scenarios - - -
> sorry.)?
> 
> Thank you for your ideas!!!!
> 
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
For the most part, Docker and Chef are mutually exclusive - the use
cases for each are divided around your infrastructure: if using
containers, Docker (a wrapper around lxc) is the way to go. If using
VMs then Chef, Puppet, or Ansible can be used. If you want an agent-
less way to build and idempotently configure VMs, then you can
eliminate Chef as your option, if you want to use an endpoint agent
installed on your target VMs then Chef is a great choice for idempotent
configurations. Your specific use cases for what you are trying to
accomplish will steer you towards a tool to make your job easier than
manually doing everything from an ssh session to the target server.
Everything as code is a reality today - hardware is thought of and
built using software.
The leading edge of agile architecture is based on microservices
deployed as containers into a cloud. This movement started about 10
years ago; and about 15 years ago loosely coupled meant Enterprise
Service Bus architectures; prior to that monolithic architectures were
all we knew how to do. Without knowing your use cases I can only give a
broad brush stroke of solutions.
Perhaps an out of the box solution to your use case may already exist
?in?https://servicebot.io/???
You didn't elaborate what your end goal was other than setting up a
business web server, or did I miss what you specified? Apologies if I
did miss that.
Still trying to help ;-)
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Tue Aug 22 20:39:03 2017
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 20:39:03 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
In-Reply-To: <20170823005332.GA28653@nobelware.com>
References: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvvsp6NyjXJ+=df+fTYQ+9kN2eWiOM9w_sq+F6DxDF-SWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170823005332.GA28653@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <1503452343.2962.54.camel@pureice.com>

On Wed, 2017-08-23 at 00:53 +0000, Iznogoud wrote:
> Mike,
> Without knowing exactly how Ubuntu deals with a new installation on a
> disk that
> already has partitions (and not being an Ubuntu user) I cannot tell
> you that I
> have a cookbook solution. But what I can tell you is that any sane
> distro will
> ask you were to install the root directory "/" and certainly whether
> to do
> any formatting of the existing partition. I'd rename the /home to
> /home_OLD
> and go with a fresh install step-by-step minus any formatting.
> 
> Booting and having a proper boot-loader is the crucial part. It will
> likely
> place grub where it should be in a partition that will be mounted as
> /boot
> under the new system. In essence, even if you wiped /bin /usr and all
> of that
> clean, the system would be new from scratch anyway and with /home_OLD
> untouched.
> 
> If you really paranoid, mount a USB drive with any filesystem on it
> (it can
> be an NTFC) and do this:
> 
> 'rsync -av /home/ /mnt/where_USB_is_mounted/home_TRANSFER/'
> 
> You can always recover from there if anything goes wrong.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
Here's how I upgrade / downgrade Linux installations (yes, both Debian
and CentOS distribution upgrades have pissed me off royally in the
past).
(0) capture a list of installed packages in current system
	(0a) if a Debian system, execute
		$ dpkg get-selections | grep -v deinstall >
~/Desktop/installed_pkgs
(1) purchase a new HDD/SSD for the system in question
(2) install new HDD/SSD in system
	(2a) place old HDD/SSD into external dock, do not mount yet
(3) fresh install of new OS version onto new HDD/SSD
(4) install main software in the new OS version
	(4a) $ sudo apt-get update
	(4b) $ sudo apt-get upgrade
	(4c) $ sudo dpkg --set-selections <
/<old_SSD_mnt_point>/home/<userid>/Desktop/installed_pkgs
(5) execute my acceptance tests based on what I use most
(6) If any show-stoppers, install old SSD back into system and try
again some time later with a future version of the OS
There's a similar path for CentOS for steps 0 and 4.
Alternatively make an exact duplicate of your old HDD/SSD via:
	# dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=100M conv=notrunc
where /dev/sda is your original existing HDD/SSD
and /dev/sdb is your new blank HDD/SSD
upgrade in place, run acceptance tests; if show-stoppers, put new
HDD/SSD into system and boot normally to be back where you were prior
to any upgrade attempt.
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Aug 22 21:07:15 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 02:07:15 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
In-Reply-To: <1503452343.2962.54.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvvsp6NyjXJ+=df+fTYQ+9kN2eWiOM9w_sq+F6DxDF-SWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170823005332.GA28653@nobelware.com> <1503452343.2962.54.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20170823020715.GA31124@nobelware.com>

> Alternatively make an exact duplicate of your old HDD/SSD via:
> 	# dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=100M conv=notrunc
> where /dev/sda is your original existing HDD/SSD
> and /dev/sdb is your new blank HDD/SSD

Some points to make here.

"dd" using this method is an excellent way of making backups if you do not
want to deal with bootloaders and if everything is in one partition, in this
example it would be the /dev/sda _drive_. This is how I make backups of Windows
machines or anything I do not feel like getting my hands really dirty with.
(Windows maintainers look no further.)

With a Linux, even a running system, you can make a tarball of the relevant
directories, skipping /proc /sys /srv and /tmp, and simply dropping the
contents of the tarball on any partition one wants. The final trick would be
to get GRUB or LILO dropped in the boot loader. But the tarball is very small
compared to an image drawn with dd. I do this. I install tarballs by PXE-booting
and dropping GRUB from the "thinly-booted client."

Another real issue is fragmentation... With a good filesystem, say XFS, which
can go through a swift defragmentation and re-arrangement or sizing of the file
system, you can pull the first, say, 100MBs of the partition. Not in general.

You can also mount an extrnal or internal filesystem, or even a remotely
mounted one over a fast network, and either do the tarball trick or use dd
like so: 'dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/mnt/remote_mount_file' I always prefer a tarball.

Expert users can pull files (say the /etc/ crucial parts from the old install)
by mounting the image (drawn with dd) over a loop-back block device or a
straight file-mount at a mount-point, and dig in there. (I do not expect this
kind of action from anyone but a Slackware nerd.)


Bonus. I sometimes put image-files together and encrypt them.

From rhayman at pureice.com  Thu Aug 24 16:59:23 2017
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:59:23 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
In-Reply-To: <20170823020715.GA31124@nobelware.com>
References: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvvsp6NyjXJ+=df+fTYQ+9kN2eWiOM9w_sq+F6DxDF-SWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170823005332.GA28653@nobelware.com>
 <1503452343.2962.54.camel@pureice.com>
 <20170823020715.GA31124@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <1503611963.27152.11.camel@pureice.com>

On Wed, 2017-08-23 at 02:07 +0000, Iznogoud wrote:
> > 
> > Alternatively make an exact duplicate of your old HDD/SSD via:
> > 	# dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=100M conv=notrunc
> > where /dev/sda is your original existing HDD/SSD
> > and /dev/sdb is your new blank HDD/SSD
> Some points to make here.
> 
> "dd" using this method is an excellent way of making backups if you
> do not
> want to deal with bootloaders and if everything is in one partition,
> in this
The dd command will make an exact copy of the input disk onto the
output disk regardless of the number of partitions, it copies boot
loaders and hidden partitions. it makes a bit-exact copy of the input
hard disk, which is why I use it when I perform an upgrade, replace the
gronked disk with the backup disk, boot and go.?
About the only caveat is that the output disk needs to be *no smaller*
than the input disk.
> example it would be the /dev/sda _drive_. This is how I make backups of Windows
> machines or anything I do not feel like getting my hands really dirty with.
> (Windows maintainers look no further.)
> 
> With a Linux, even a running system, you can make a tarball of the relevant
> directories, skipping /proc /sys /srv and /tmp, and simply dropping the
> contents of the tarball on any partition one wants. The final trick would be
> to get GRUB or LILO dropped in the boot loader. But the tarball is very small
> compared to an image drawn with dd. I do this. I install tarballs by PXE-booting
> and dropping GRUB from the "thinly-booted client."
> 
> Another real issue is fragmentation... With a good filesystem, say XFS, which
> can go through a swift defragmentation and re-arrangement or sizing of the file
> system, you can pull the first, say, 100MBs of the partition. Not in general.
> 
> You can also mount an extrnal or internal filesystem, or even a remotely
> mounted one over a fast network, and either do the tarball trick or use dd
> like so: 'dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/mnt/remote_mount_file' I always prefer a tarball.
> 
> Expert users can pull files (say the /etc/ crucial parts from the old install)
> by mounting the image (drawn with dd) over a loop-back block device or a
> straight file-mount at a mount-point, and dig in there. (I do not expect this
> kind of action from anyone but a Slackware nerd.)
> 
> 
> Bonus. I sometimes put image-files together and encrypt them.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> 
tclug-list at mn-linux.org> 
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


Usinig the tar command also enables you to split and merge parts of
filesystems - things us old-fart sysadmins needed to do when production
SCSI HDDs were 9GB or less each - each partition could reside on a
separate HDD - i.e. /, /var, /home, etc... could each reside on their
own HDD as space or inode tables filled up.
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Aug 24 19:14:28 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:14:28 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Gimp has no menus in Ubuntu 17.04
In-Reply-To: <1503611963.27152.11.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CALuKVvt3U_qfintLKhKH8TenD+JbPwm751aWAfz80Rb_R4M-JA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170822214927.GA22185@nobelware.com>
 <CALuKVvvsp6NyjXJ+=df+fTYQ+9kN2eWiOM9w_sq+F6DxDF-SWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170823005332.GA28653@nobelware.com> <1503452343.2962.54.camel@pureice.com>
 <20170823020715.GA31124@nobelware.com>
 <1503611963.27152.11.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20170825001428.GA31871@nobelware.com>


> The dd command will make an exact copy of the input disk onto the
> output disk regardless of the number of partitions, it copies boot
> loaders and hidden partitions. it makes a bit-exact copy of the input
> hard disk, which is why I use it when I perform an upgrade, replace the
> gronked disk with the backup disk, boot and go.?
> About the only caveat is that the output disk needs to be *no smaller*
> than the input disk.

That is exactly right, which is why I said it is great for Windows backups
and NOT dealing with the bootlaoder, and also that one needs to be careful
with fragmentation.

Perhaps what I should have made more clear is that any Linux user who can
read manual pages and howtos can take care of boot-loaders easily on their
own in a transfered installation. And the key aspect here is that the bootloader
needs to know the exact location of the kernel on the disk from whcih it is
booting; installing LILO or GRUB does just that.

Really, there are limitless possibilities of how one can boot a Linux system.
A combination of GRUB/LILO and also PXE (network booting) with RD (ramdisks)
can take one very far. This is how admins of large centralized installations
like to do things. In a nutshell, they have pre-prepared images that are
essentially dropped on fresh disks. Those images are stored on network drives
that are exported. The target hardware is setup by booting as a "thin client"
from a networked bootpd-serving server, partitioning, dropping an image or
tarball, and installing a bootloader.

I am guessing there are several webpages with instructions on doing this.

But my favourite part is yanking an image of a hybernated Windows machine,
changing the drive with new hardware, and rebooting the new harware from
hybernation. Done that with Windows XP. What would Windows do without Linux...


From kurtis at riseup.net  Mon Aug 28 13:40:00 2017
From: kurtis at riseup.net (Kurtis Hanna)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 18:40:00 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking to buy T500 for parts
Message-ID: <112675a0-3f8c-5dcb-dbb2-36476a38eed7@riseup.net>

Hello,

Anyone have an old T500 Thinkpad that they want to sell? I need a number
of parts from it, and it is OK if it isn't in working condition.

I'm also looking for T400, T400s, R400 and X200 (tablet version and
regular).

kurtis

From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Mon Aug 28 14:53:44 2017
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:53:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking to buy T500 for parts
In-Reply-To: <112675a0-3f8c-5dcb-dbb2-36476a38eed7@riseup.net>
References: <112675a0-3f8c-5dcb-dbb2-36476a38eed7@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAOZLdJXXPS30c64PuixpMNt2UC=mwfy5rjjP+vqnMGBGykUH9A@mail.gmail.com>

No, but I have a T43p....

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Kurtis Hanna <kurtis at riseup.net> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Anyone have an old T500 Thinkpad that they want to sell? I need a number
> of parts from it, and it is OK if it isn't in working condition.
>
> I'm also looking for T400, T400s, R400 and X200 (tablet version and
> regular).
>
> kurtis
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From kurtis at riseup.net  Mon Aug 28 18:29:00 2017
From: kurtis at riseup.net (Kurtis Hanna)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 23:29:00 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Looking to buy T500 for parts
In-Reply-To: <CAOZLdJXXPS30c64PuixpMNt2UC=mwfy5rjjP+vqnMGBGykUH9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <112675a0-3f8c-5dcb-dbb2-36476a38eed7@riseup.net>
 <CAOZLdJXXPS30c64PuixpMNt2UC=mwfy5rjjP+vqnMGBGykUH9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d532f5f2-e270-791b-8d0f-d3527e451e6d@riseup.net>

Thanks for the response, Tony.

I'm trying to flash libreboot on these, so I need very specific models.

Unfortunately T43p isn't one of them.

Tony Yarusso:
> No, but I have a T43p....
> 
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Kurtis Hanna <kurtis at riseup.net> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Anyone have an old T500 Thinkpad that they want to sell? I need a number
>> of parts from it, and it is OK if it isn't in working condition.
>>
>> I'm also looking for T400, T400s, R400 and X200 (tablet version and
>> regular).
>>
>> kurtis
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

From admin at lctn.org  Wed Aug 30 09:13:34 2017
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:13:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] generate ssl from csr
Message-ID: <1255109885.152479.1504102414532.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>

Got caught in a time crunch and need to create a cert from a generated csr. Not finding the doc on this. Anyone know how I can quickly do this with openssl? 

Raymond Norton 
LCTN 

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From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Aug 30 09:23:37 2017
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:23:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] generate ssl from csr
In-Reply-To: <1255109885.152479.1504102414532.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>
References: <1255109885.152479.1504102414532.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708300919040.1382@rooster>

I mean... I hate to be the "Let Me Google It For You" guy, but "generate 
self-signed SSL certificate" brings up a million results on this.

Short answer:

sudo openssl x509 -req -days 365 -in /path/to/your.csr -signkey 
/path/to/your.key -out /path/to/your.crt






On Wed, 30 Aug 2017, admin at lctn.org wrote:

> Got caught in a time crunch and need to create a cert from a generated csr.
> Not finding the doc on this. Anyone know how I can quickly do this with
> openssl?
> 
> Raymond Norton
> LCTN
> 
> 
>

From admin at lctn.org  Wed Aug 30 09:25:40 2017
From: admin at lctn.org (Raymond Norton)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:25:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] generate ssl from csr
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708300919040.1382@rooster>
References: <1255109885.152479.1504102414532.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708300919040.1382@rooster>
Message-ID: <c69525fa-a77b-47e9-8ac5-fbd1415f9bff@lctn.org>

Did not see that or wouldn't have asked.

Thanks

?Raymond Norton

LCTN
2 Century Ave
Hutchinson, Mn. 55350

320.221.2183
?

On Aug 30, 2017, 9:26 AM, at 9:26 AM, Clug <tclug at freakzilla.com> wrote:
>I mean... I hate to be the "Let Me Google It For You" guy, but
>"generate 
>self-signed SSL certificate" brings up a million results on this.
>
>Short answer:
>
>sudo openssl x509 -req -days 365 -in /path/to/your.csr -signkey 
>/path/to/your.key -out /path/to/your.crt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, 30 Aug 2017, admin at lctn.org wrote:
>
>> Got caught in a time crunch and need to create a cert from a
>generated csr.
>> Not finding the doc on this. Anyone know how I can quickly do this
>with
>> openssl?
>> 
>> Raymond Norton
>> LCTN
>> 
>> 
>>
>_______________________________________________
>TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Aug 30 11:01:16 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 16:01:16 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] generate ssl from csr
In-Reply-To: <c69525fa-a77b-47e9-8ac5-fbd1415f9bff@lctn.org>
References: <1255109885.152479.1504102414532.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708300919040.1382@rooster>
 <c69525fa-a77b-47e9-8ac5-fbd1415f9bff@lctn.org>
Message-ID: <20170830160116.GA12133@nobelware.com>

For closure here, this is a pressumed "certificate signing request" that was
generated and placed in the .csr file, which needed to be signed by a real
person (using the personal key your.cert) in order to be accepted by a
certificate signing authority (like "Let's Encrypt" which is what I use).

Did I get it right? (for everybody else's reading benefit)


From admin at lctn.org  Wed Aug 30 11:05:47 2017
From: admin at lctn.org (admin at lctn.org)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:05:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] generate ssl from csr
In-Reply-To: <20170830160116.GA12133@nobelware.com>
References: <1255109885.152479.1504102414532.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708300919040.1382@rooster>
 <c69525fa-a77b-47e9-8ac5-fbd1415f9bff@lctn.org>
 <20170830160116.GA12133@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <1445133803.152678.1504109147473.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>

That is correct

----- Original Message -----
From: "Iznogoud" <iznogoud at nobelware.com>
To: "tclug-list" <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:01:16 AM
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] generate ssl from csr

For closure here, this is a pressumed "certificate signing request" that was
generated and placed in the .csr file, which needed to be signed by a real
person (using the personal key your.cert) in order to be accepted by a
certificate signing authority (like "Let's Encrypt" which is what I use).

Did I get it right? (for everybody else's reading benefit)

_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Wed Aug 30 11:05:24 2017
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:05:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] generate ssl from csr
In-Reply-To: <20170830160116.GA12133@nobelware.com>
References: <1255109885.152479.1504102414532.JavaMail.zimbra@lctn.org>
 <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708300919040.1382@rooster>
 <c69525fa-a77b-47e9-8ac5-fbd1415f9bff@lctn.org>
 <20170830160116.GA12133@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1708301103270.1382@rooster>

In order to generate a "real" certificate, you generate a CSR, then send 
it to a certificate authority to be signed. Then you install the 
certificate they generate.

("Send" can mean "use locally installed software").

If you self-sign it, it'll still work but users will get a pop-up message 
saying this certificate is not signed by an official certificate 
authority, and they'll have to manually allow the browser to connect.

This is assuming we're talking about webserver certs. You could be using 
them for a variety of other things.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017, Iznogoud wrote:

> For closure here, this is a pressumed "certificate signing request" that was
> generated and placed in the .csr file, which needed to be signed by a real
> person (using the personal key your.cert) in order to be accepted by a
> certificate signing authority (like "Let's Encrypt" which is what I use).
>
> Did I get it right? (for everybody else's reading benefit)
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Wed Aug 30 11:20:46 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:20:46 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP installs
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5_-2Pk5ML4pmKrmN1WfTfVfef4gudOeBOJquZUeqij3mQ@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings

I have been trying to install horde_webmail.

Getting the server setup has not been as easy as is suggested in most
tutorials (sorry there have been more than one or two gotchas). I have
gotten to where I have mariadb, apache2 and php7.0 installed with no errors
showing (at least as far as I can tell!).

The fun part is that horde_webmail needs to have php5.6 for almost all of
its packages.

Is there any way to install BOTH php 5.6 and php7.0 without them
conflicting?

If that is true does anyone have a recipe sheet for any of the 'interesting
bits' I think I'll be running into?

TIA

Dee
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Aug 30 16:27:48 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 21:27:48 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP installs
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5_-2Pk5ML4pmKrmN1WfTfVfef4gudOeBOJquZUeqij3mQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf5_-2Pk5ML4pmKrmN1WfTfVfef4gudOeBOJquZUeqij3mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170830212748.GA23384@nobelware.com>

Unfortunately I will not offer very good technical advise on this, but read on.

> 
> The fun part is that horde_webmail needs to have php5.6 for almost all of
> its packages.
>

I just looked here to make sure I get the picture:
https://www.horde.org/apps/webmail/docs/INSTALL
Under prerequisites it says "PHP 5.3.0 or above" and frankly I cannot see how
a newer version of PHP would be the source of any serious problems. I could
certainly be wrong, but I am suggesting to dismiss that as a potential problem.
 
> Is there any way to install BOTH php 5.6 and php7.0 without them
> conflicting?
>

I'd say throu all the installation in a VM that has an older OS installed, say
an OS that says has PHP 5.8 packaged in it. Make sure it works out of that VM
before you trying doing things that can lead to more problems that you cannot
quickly solve.


Given that this is probably in support of your business, I'll give you this
piece of "business development" advise: get your mail service working by
having a company like Google handle it for free via Gmail first. You can sort
out your own mailserver and web-mail items later. In fact, you can have your
own mail-server and allow gmail to be the front-end service (via IMAP), which
is what users see when they are using email. Horde can be something that you
can trouble-shoot later. The idea is that you will, very quickly, get going
so that you can focus on the business side first and leave technical details
for the time that details can be sorted out. An added benefit is that you do
not have to worry about maintaining the reputation of a mail-server if you
allow Gmail to handle it all. You will find that you will have to work a bit
harder to keep your server off blacklists. I do know that we all prefer to
keep the "evil empire" off our e-mailboxes...


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Wed Aug 30 17:27:28 2017
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 17:27:28 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] PHP installs
In-Reply-To: <20170830212748.GA23384@nobelware.com>
References: <CAPpdf5_-2Pk5ML4pmKrmN1WfTfVfef4gudOeBOJquZUeqij3mQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20170830212748.GA23384@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf58dfUmOjzezQsKrstduK5CCfEgxOtG1can+27__7eBSuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately I will not offer very good technical advise on this, but
> read on.
>
> >
> > The fun part is that horde_webmail needs to have php5.6 for almost all of
> > its packages.
> >
>
> I just looked here to make sure I get the picture:
> https://www.horde.org/apps/webmail/docs/INSTALL
> Under prerequisites it says "PHP 5.3.0 or above" and frankly I cannot see
> how
> a newer version of PHP would be the source of any serious problems. I could
> certainly be wrong, but I am suggesting to dismiss that as a potential
> problem.
>

I would agree with you except that I have been working on trying to install
- - -
no matter what I am trrying - - - the end result is - - - 'not installed'
and the
error message says uses php 5.3 to 6.0 (non inclusive) but 7.0.17 is
installed (IIRC)
so its not like I have a choice.

>
> > Is there any way to install BOTH php 5.6 and php7.0 without them
> > conflicting?
> >
>
> I'd say throu all the installation in a VM that has an older OS installed,
> say
> an OS that says has PHP 5.8 packaged in it. Make sure it works out of that
> VM
> before you trying doing things that can lead to more problems that you
> cannot
> quickly solve.
>
>
> Given that this is probably in support of your business, I'll give you this
> piece of "business development" advise: get your mail service working by
> having a company like Google handle it for free via Gmail first. You can
> sort
> out your own mailserver and web-mail items later. In fact, you can have
> your
> own mail-server and allow gmail to be the front-end service (via IMAP),
> which
> is what users see when they are using email. Horde can be something that
> you
> can trouble-shoot later. The idea is that you will, very quickly, get going
> so that you can focus on the business side first and leave technical
> details
> for the time that details can be sorted out. An added benefit is that you
> do
> not have to worry about maintaining the reputation of a mail-server if you
> allow Gmail to handle it all. You will find that you will have to work a
> bit
> harder to keep your server off blacklists. I do know that we all prefer to
> keep the "evil empire" off our e-mailboxes...
>

Trying that - - - it is quite a good idea. I am getting more and more
loathe to
broadcast everything that I am working on to ms google so that she can (and
she will) demand more from her advertisers! My business communications
are not for others to make money off of IMO.

So I have a sticky problem - - - checked Debian 9 does NOT use php5.6 that
is held to Debian 8 so there will be even greater issues.

I'm starting to think that complicated software setups just aren't worth
pursuing - - - I need tools not black holes for my time!

Thanks for the suggestions!!

Dee
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