From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Fri Dec  1 10:42:46 2017
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:42:46 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] whence fb notifications
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9CfDAecOotmxbxVY9tfrU-WD-FK47BRTde+BVFw5iUkZQ@mail.gmail.com>

it's opera, which i only have on the phone, tho yes no doubt probably the
others can too.  sure i can go into facebook settings and disable
notifications, but the wakeup call here is these browsers providing a fully
operational malware platform.  and facebook using it.


On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

> Have you used Chrome at all? That if you use it on a desktop then
> notifications authorized there could be synced. Same with other browsers, I
> think.
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:56 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> > i wonder how facebook is putting notifications on my (lollipop) phone.
> i just rebooted, haven't launched anything, and neither the facebook nor fb
> messaging apps are installed.  iirc i did install and uninstall fb
> messaging several months back, but these facebook notifications have just
> started in the last day or two.  hmm, perhaps i've gone several months
> without posting on facebook and have just done that, from my desktop, not
> the phone.  but, so?  my first guess is via opera beta.  i like opera beta
> because it does reflow after zoom.  but i think it's the culprit for the
> ads when i plug or unplug the charger.  sure i've browsed a small few fb
> pages on the phone.  i wouldn't have thought that would let them place
> intents tho.
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Dec  1 18:31:57 2017
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:31:57 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] whence fb notifications
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9CfDAecOotmxbxVY9tfrU-WD-FK47BRTde+BVFw5iUkZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9CfDAecOotmxbxVY9tfrU-WD-FK47BRTde+BVFw5iUkZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35D9AF76-68B0-48E6-BDDA-41A60FFA66F0@cwis.biz>

I would tend to believe you are in the minority with that belief. 



> On Dec 1, 2017, at 10:42 AM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net> wrote:
> 
> it's opera, which i only have on the phone, tho yes no doubt probably the others can too.  sure i can go into facebook settings and disable notifications, but the wakeup call here is these browsers providing a fully operational malware platform.  and facebook using it.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz <mailto:ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>> wrote:
> Have you used Chrome at all? That if you use it on a desktop then notifications authorized there could be synced. Same with other browsers, I think.
> 
> 
> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:56 PM, gregrwm <tclug1 at whitleymott.net <mailto:tclug1 at whitleymott.net>> wrote:
> > i wonder how facebook is putting notifications on my (lollipop) phone.  i just rebooted, haven't launched anything, and neither the facebook nor fb messaging apps are installed.  iirc i did install and uninstall fb messaging several months back, but these facebook notifications have just started in the last day or two.  hmm, perhaps i've gone several months without posting on facebook and have just done that, from my desktop, not the phone.  but, so?  my first guess is via opera beta.  i like opera beta because it does reflow after zoom.  but i think it's the culprit for the ads when i plug or unplug the charger.  sure i've browsed a small few fb pages on the phone.  i wouldn't have thought that would let them place intents tho.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Mon Dec 11 19:57:27 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 19:57:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017, Carl W. Soderstrom wrote:

> On 10/22 12:59 , Mike Miller wrote:
>
>> I upgraded to Ubuntu 17.10 and soon found that some things were not 
>> working. Apparently the root of the problem is that my monitor is now 
>> using DISPLAY=:1.  I don't know why.  I have only one monitor.  It 
>> ought to be DISPLAY=:0.  Any ideas?
>
> Got a stale lockfile in /tmp/.X11 or someplace similar? That's usually 
> what causes that issue.

Thanks for the pointer, but that didn't happen to work.  I tried about 100 
things and went down 100 blind alleys before I figured out that the 
problem was incompatibility of the Gnome Wayland display server with 
Nvidia drivers.  I uninstalled the drivers and things suddenly worked.

Before at the login screen, I couldn't choose "Ubuntu", just "Ubuntu 
Xorg".

Before, logging into Ubuntu Xorg:

$ echo $DISPLAY
:1

$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
x11


After, logging into Ubuntu:

$ echo $DISPLAY
:0

$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
wayland


I also created ~/.config/monitors.xml and moved it to /var/lib/gdm3/.config/
based on what I read here:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/966688/ubuntu-17-10-is-not-running-wayland

I'm not sure if that was needed, but like the OP on that thread, I was 
using more memory before I got Wayland working.

Anyway, I'm happiear now.

Mike

From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Dec 12 08:02:56 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 08:02:56 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
Message-ID: <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>

This is an interesting thread to me. I think I understand some of it, 
and am concerned and confused about the issue of too much complexity 
invading linux.

When I first saw the thread I wondered if the latest greatest OpenGL 
desktops were suspect. On opensuse I can configure the KDE desktop to 
use different versions of OpenGL "rendering," or I can choose Xrender. I 
just have an Intel motherboard GPU, so linux has it covered. On older 
opensuse distros the Xrender desktop is noticeably different.

Maybe it is a good idea to dump all the graphics work to giant new video 
cards. And maybe the old guys doing console command line linux are 
smart. But maybe simple X11 or whatever it's called today worked pretty 
well, too (for the rest of us bumpkins). Same concern for going from 
32bit to 64bit.

In the linux quest to be a great choice for every user platform, they 
might compromise quality.

At my age, I can live with opensuse 32bit and play with my PCI serial 
ports using X11 until I enter assisted living. If I have a rationale it 
would be that industrial automation ain't gonna screw around with iPads 
and WiFi and 6 channel music.

Great post, great conclusion. Thanks.

Mike Miller wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2017, Carl W. Soderstrom wrote:
>
>> On 10/22 12:59 , Mike Miller wrote:
>>
>>> I upgraded to Ubuntu 17.10 and soon found that some things were not
>>> working. Apparently the root of the problem is that my monitor is now
>>> using DISPLAY=:1.  I don't know why.  I have only one monitor.  It
>>> ought to be DISPLAY=:0.  Any ideas?
>>
>> Got a stale lockfile in /tmp/.X11 or someplace similar? That's usually
>> what causes that issue.
>
> Thanks for the pointer, but that didn't happen to work.  I tried about
> 100 things and went down 100 blind alleys before I figured out that the
> problem was incompatibility of the Gnome Wayland display server with
> Nvidia drivers.  I uninstalled the drivers and things suddenly worked.
>
> Before at the login screen, I couldn't choose "Ubuntu", just "Ubuntu Xorg".
>
> Before, logging into Ubuntu Xorg:
>
> $ echo $DISPLAY
> :1
>
> $ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
> x11
>
>
> After, logging into Ubuntu:
>
> $ echo $DISPLAY
> :0
>
> $ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
> wayland
>
>
> I also created ~/.config/monitors.xml and moved it to
> /var/lib/gdm3/.config/
> based on what I read here:
>
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/966688/ubuntu-17-10-is-not-running-wayland
>
> I'm not sure if that was needed, but like the OP on that thread, I was
> using more memory before I got Wayland working.
>
> Anyway, I'm happiear now.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From carl.soderstrom at real-time.com  Tue Dec 12 10:33:29 2017
From: carl.soderstrom at real-time.com (Carl W. Soderstrom)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:33:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>

On 12/12 02:02 , Rick Engebretson wrote:
> This is an interesting thread to me. I think I understand some of it, and am
> concerned and confused about the issue of too much complexity invading
> linux.

I've seen that happening for decades now. As Linux becomes more mature, much
more complexity is invading it, and making it again more difficult to use
and maintain.

A decade or so ago, a friend of mine said Linux was easier to use and
install on his laptop than Windows, because the driver support was better.
Now, even I struggle with getting my KDE desktop configured in a halfway
sane fashion because it's hard to figure out what to do to put an icon here
or there, or remove the same. Settings don't always stay set (display
gamma, I'm looking at you), configurations are hard to find (competing
desktop environments and distro-specific config tools mean you can have
multiple places you need to look to change the color of your widgets, etc).

After 20 years of fiddling with this stuff, I know *why* it is, and I
appreciate the decentralized anarchic nature of the development community.
However, I can completely understand why a new person would throw up their
hands in frustration at it.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From stevetrapp at comcast.net  Tue Dec 12 12:42:49 2017
From: stevetrapp at comcast.net (Steve Trapp)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:42:49 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>

Comments inlined, like they ought to be:

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 11:33:29AM -0500, Carl W. Soderstrom wrote:
> I've seen that happening for decades now. As Linux becomes more mature, much
> more complexity is invading it, and making it again more difficult to use
> and maintain.

Complexity invasion making Linux more difficult to use and maintain:
: systemd

I'm unable to grok complex stuff with sparse documentation.

This is my major >>>>pet-peeve<<<< of Debian 9.

~ Steve ~

stevetrapp<AT>comcast<DOT>net

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Dec 12 17:40:40 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:40:40 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
Message-ID: <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>

General comments.

You do not have to use any of those environments (KDE,GNOME, etc) if you do
not like them. Use FVWM2, like I do. It does not use 3D acceleration and will
not be an immediate problem to running X (X11 that is).

Use more and more command-line linux software. If you program serial ports,
you sure do not mind doing it on the terminal. If you program simulation
software like I do, command-line is just about all you need. Again, simple
X servers with something like FVWM2/MWM will work fine when it comes to having
a LOT of terminals (xterm) open.

On complexity. You cannot avoid it. And I would argue that the Linux
"micro-kernel" architecture design with modules is very good for keeping
bad things out of your functional things. If you do not like a particular
aspect of the system, do not compile it in your kernel. If you do not like
a particular way the system is put together, switch distributions or piece
one together. None of those things are easy...

I feel that people want the convenience of Ubuntu-style (Microsoft-legacy
thinking) "apt-get" installation and system management. With the greatness
of being able to do what you want comes the responsibility of doing a lot of
it yourself; it is a lot like politics in real life.


From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Dec 12 21:04:30 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:04:30 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <eea1b682-91b0-54ae-c8b4-270ecf5c81e0@pinenet.com>

I would be delighted to chat with you on a separate thread. I tried 
starting a new thread called "Serial Port complexity." It didn't seem to 
get posted so maybe it's too off topic or had a link to a web page.

I don't know how Unix+SerialPorts+Terminals got irrelevant in these days 
of industrial automation.

Iznogoud wrote:
> General comments.
>
> You do not have to use any of those environments (KDE,GNOME, etc) if you do
> not like them. Use FVWM2, like I do. It does not use 3D acceleration and will
> not be an immediate problem to running X (X11 that is).
>
> Use more and more command-line linux software. If you program serial ports,
> you sure do not mind doing it on the terminal. If you program simulation
> software like I do, command-line is just about all you need. Again, simple
> X servers with something like FVWM2/MWM will work fine when it comes to having
> a LOT of terminals (xterm) open.
>
> On complexity. You cannot avoid it. And I would argue that the Linux
> "micro-kernel" architecture design with modules is very good for keeping
> bad things out of your functional things. If you do not like a particular
> aspect of the system, do not compile it in your kernel. If you do not like
> a particular way the system is put together, switch distributions or piece
> one together. None of those things are easy...
>
> I feel that people want the convenience of Ubuntu-style (Microsoft-legacy
> thinking) "apt-get" installation and system management. With the greatness
> of being able to do what you want comes the responsibility of doing a lot of
> it yourself; it is a lot like politics in real life.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From carl.soderstrom at real-time.com  Wed Dec 13 06:30:29 2017
From: carl.soderstrom at real-time.com (Carl W. Soderstrom)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 07:30:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <20171213123028.kmevaol7vchttuhw@real-time.com>

On 12/12 11:40 , Iznogoud wrote:
> You do not have to use any of those environments (KDE,GNOME, etc) if you do
> not like them. Use FVWM2, like I do. It does not use 3D acceleration and will
> not be an immediate problem to running X (X11 that is).

I used FVWM2 for many many years, and liked it very much. Occasionally I'm
tempted to go back to it.

When I taught linux administration I would often use a different desktop
environment on each day of class, to show the students just how
customizeable the desktop can be. I've probably seriously used a dozen
different WMs and DEs over the years. They all suck in their own way. ;)

Still, on the whole, it's a good experience.

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Dec 13 09:43:39 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:43:39 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <eea1b682-91b0-54ae-c8b4-270ecf5c81e0@pinenet.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
 <eea1b682-91b0-54ae-c8b4-270ecf5c81e0@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20171213154339.GA11869@nobelware.com>

> 
> I would be delighted to chat with you on a separate thread. I tried 
> starting a new thread called "Serial Port complexity." It didn't seem to 
> get posted so maybe it's too off topic or had a link to a web page.
>

Perhaps there was an issue with your connection from the boonies! I do not
see how the list-server would not just push your post to the list.

Regarding serial port programming, there is quite a bit of info out there.
And the only real issue I see is the popularity of USB on physical devices,
i.e. you cannot find most tinker-toys or components with a serial port, while
USB devices are widespread. For that there is the "FTDi chip" which does this
kind of translation of USB to serial -- I know of it from automotve hardware
and software applications. Regardless, the internet is vast with info on
programming the serial port, but you may want to consider components with
more modern and "wrapped" protocols, like I2C compatible components. If you
have a project that needs to use modern consumer electronics components, you
are more likely to run into an I2C compatible component than a serial port
one. There is an I2C stack on the linux kernel and it works really well. We
(a friend and I) programmed a tilt-sensor and display with an accelerometer
over I2C driven by Python on a Ras Pi, and it included a graphical display on
the X11 screen fo the Ras Pi. (And I hate Python!) We also recently struggled
at an IoT hack-day to connect a soil-moisture sensor to the Ras Pi via I2C...

 
> I don't know how Unix+SerialPorts+Terminals got irrelevant in these days 
> of industrial automation.
>

See my comments above. Most people coming out of college and into the market
as engineers and technicians do Python and use stacks that are already there.
The days of very raw serial protocol programming are for one (or two)
generations behind. Yup, we are old -- you older than me -- and we can still
learn, and should learn, a new thing or two.


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Dec 13 09:46:31 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:46:31 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171213123028.kmevaol7vchttuhw@real-time.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
 <20171213123028.kmevaol7vchttuhw@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20171213154631.GB11869@nobelware.com>

> 
> When I taught linux administration I would often use a different desktop
> environment on each day of class, to show the students just how
> customizeable the desktop can be. I've probably seriously used a dozen
> different WMs and DEs over the years. They all suck in their own way. ;)
>

Agreed... they suck, but it is said that "something is worth what you pay
for it" and those were free to me!

You could probably tweak FVWM2 and it would look and behave like a different
WM. I use the traditional, MWM-like, look, but you can make it look like MS
Windows if you wanted to.

Which book did you use when teaching a class like this if you used one?


From carl.soderstrom at real-time.com  Wed Dec 13 10:38:52 2017
From: carl.soderstrom at real-time.com (Carl W. Soderstrom)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:38:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171213154631.GB11869@nobelware.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
 <20171213123028.kmevaol7vchttuhw@real-time.com>
 <20171213154631.GB11869@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <20171213163851.dp4nxrjmufwojotr@real-time.com>

On 12/13 03:46 , Iznogoud wrote:
> Which book did you use when teaching a class like this if you used one?

I wrote my own. There weren't any good classroom materials at the time
(circa early 2000s). So at least I can honestly say that I have written a
textbook. :)

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From carl.soderstrom at real-time.com  Wed Dec 13 10:41:19 2017
From: carl.soderstrom at real-time.com (Carl W. Soderstrom)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:41:19 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171213154631.GB11869@nobelware.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
 <20171213123028.kmevaol7vchttuhw@real-time.com>
 <20171213154631.GB11869@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <20171213164118.izaje3ot4nyl52bb@real-time.com>

On 12/13 03:46 , Iznogoud wrote:
> You could probably tweak FVWM2 and it would look and behave like a different
> WM. I use the traditional, MWM-like, look, but you can make it look like MS
> Windows if you wanted to.

Yeah, it's remarkably customizeable.
I wrote my config file about 1999-2000, and pretty much kept it the same for
the next 10 years. I know there's more I could do with it, but I failed to
care enough to work on it. :)

-- 
Carl Soderstrom
Systems Administrator
Real-Time Enterprises
www.real-time.com

From eng at pinenet.com  Wed Dec 13 12:36:38 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 12:36:38 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Serial Port complexity resent
Message-ID: <8b7de222-fc3b-0217-c895-7d11fba10150@pinenet.com>

Here is an old (1995) favorite serial port hardware reference

http{delete this space}://{delete this space}www.{delete this 
space}sytekcom.com/eng/SerialPort-hardware.{delete this space}html.

Most all of the UART register set, and more, is accessible using POSIX 
termios functions.

I have looked hard at Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and other popular 
microcontroller boards. Nothing I found compares to the plus and minus 
12 volt RS232 line drivers. Nothing I found compares to the interrupt 
handling of many, many UART events.

Also interesting is how Linux can now use new shared high interrupts 
with PCI UARTs.

I don't know how industry will grow without automation. And I don't know 
how automation can grow without Linux and the serial port.

I hope somebody copies and saves the above web document.

From eng at pinenet.com  Wed Dec 13 13:06:27 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:06:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Serial Port complexity resent
In-Reply-To: <8b7de222-fc3b-0217-c895-7d11fba10150@pinenet.com>
References: <8b7de222-fc3b-0217-c895-7d11fba10150@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <fff85e09-bc3e-e395-0bad-00e48d3641f4@pinenet.com>

Perhap bouncesTCLUG actually bounces.

And you are right about everything you say. I2C is great (TWI is old 
Atmel's term). Python is popular (but Python used a tk GUI binding. And 
tcl will nicely connect to an Arduino Uno R3 /dev/ttyACMX, and even run 
"firmata."). So as you say you can have a marvelous smart terminal with 
all these microcontrollers, but sometimes you still need to wire your 
smart terminal to a serious linux box.


--Iznogoud says--

Perhaps there was an issue with your connection from the boonies! I do not
see how the list-server would not just push your post to the list.

Regarding serial port programming, there is quite a bit of info out there.
And the only real issue I see is the popularity of USB on physical devices,
i.e. you cannot find most tinker-toys or components with a serial port, 
while
USB devices are widespread. For that there is the "FTDi chip" which does 
this
kind of translation of USB to serial -- I know of it from automotve hardware
and software applications. Regardless, the internet is vast with info on
programming the serial port, but you may want to consider components with
more modern and "wrapped" protocols, like I2C compatible components. If you
have a project that needs to use modern consumer electronics components, you
are more likely to run into an I2C compatible component than a serial port
one. There is an I2C stack on the linux kernel and it works really well. We
(a friend and I) programmed a tilt-sensor and display with an accelerometer
over I2C driven by Python on a Ras Pi, and it included a graphical 
display on
the X11 screen fo the Ras Pi. (And I hate Python!) We also recently 
struggled
at an IoT hack-day to connect a soil-moisture sensor to the Ras Pi via 
I2C...
+
+
+
See my comments above. Most people coming out of college and into the market
as engineers and technicians do Python and use stacks that are already 
there.
The days of very raw serial protocol programming are for one (or two)
generations behind. Yup, we are old -- you older than me -- and we can still
learn, and should learn, a new thing or two.+




Rick Engebretson wrote:
> Here is an old (1995) favorite serial port hardware reference
>
> http{delete this space}://{delete this space}www.{delete this
> space}sytekcom.com/eng/SerialPort-hardware.{delete this space}html.
>
> Most all of the UART register set, and more, is accessible using POSIX
> termios functions.
>
> I have looked hard at Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and other popular
> microcontroller boards. Nothing I found compares to the plus and minus
> 12 volt RS232 line drivers. Nothing I found compares to the interrupt
> handling of many, many UART events.
>
> Also interesting is how Linux can now use new shared high interrupts
> with PCI UARTs.
>
> I don't know how industry will grow without automation. And I don't know
> how automation can grow without Linux and the serial port.
>
> I hope somebody copies and saves the above web document.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Dec 13 18:00:27 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:00:27 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Ubuntu 17.10 now using DISPLAY=:1 but why?
In-Reply-To: <20171213164118.izaje3ot4nyl52bb@real-time.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1710211957380.2795@taxa2>
 <20171023170122.jnshdcfta44xwpko@real-time.com>
 <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712111938210.30098@taxahome2>
 <5ab2b284-2992-4a3b-eede-cc970c46fab0@pinenet.com>
 <20171212163328.7e6pw2qs4cl4hd6u@real-time.com>
 <20171212184249.GA12711@dog.cavelan.local>
 <20171212234040.GA29448@nobelware.com>
 <20171213123028.kmevaol7vchttuhw@real-time.com>
 <20171213154631.GB11869@nobelware.com>
 <20171213164118.izaje3ot4nyl52bb@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20171214000027.GA30005@nobelware.com>

> I wrote my config file about 1999-2000, and pretty much kept it the same for
> the next 10 years. I know there's more I could do with it, but I failed to
> care enough to work on it. :)
>

It was 1998 that I finalized the colours on my .fvwm2rc and it has basically
been the same since. I literally spent 5 days, a work-week, trying colours
knowing well that it was an investment for many years. I did not expect 20 of
them!
 

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Dec 13 18:07:07 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:07:07 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Serial Port complexity resent
In-Reply-To: <fff85e09-bc3e-e395-0bad-00e48d3641f4@pinenet.com>
References: <8b7de222-fc3b-0217-c895-7d11fba10150@pinenet.com>
 <fff85e09-bc3e-e395-0bad-00e48d3641f4@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20171214000707.GB30005@nobelware.com>

> 
> And you are right about everything you say. I2C is great (TWI is old 
> Atmel's term). Python is popular (but Python used a tk GUI binding. And 
> tcl will nicely connect to an Arduino Uno R3 /dev/ttyACMX, and even run 
> "firmata."). So as you say you can have a marvelous smart terminal with 
> all these microcontrollers, but sometimes you still need to wire your 
> smart terminal to a serious linux box.
>

You seem to know more about this than I do. My serial port programming is very
limited, precisely because we entered the era of the internet and everything
is "simpler" now.

My microconrtoller experience is limited to the Propeller Parallax chip, and
I really like it. But you cannot beat a $40 full-blown Linux "desktop" like
the Ras Pi. Blows my mind; you can fit one in your pocket and THERE is your
portable computer.
 

From eng at pinenet.com  Wed Dec 13 21:09:02 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:09:02 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Serial Port complexity resent
In-Reply-To: <20171214000707.GB30005@nobelware.com>
References: <8b7de222-fc3b-0217-c895-7d11fba10150@pinenet.com>
 <fff85e09-bc3e-e395-0bad-00e48d3641f4@pinenet.com>
 <20171214000707.GB30005@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <eccd2abd-6527-673a-cebc-617ab63b92d7@pinenet.com>

You are gracious and informative to many people about many Linux topics.

Yes, this is all old school and maybe not very useful. But if you have a 
chance to peek at the 1995 SerialPort-hardware document (sort of 
linked), it might be worth saving. It reminds me a lot of Atmel Atmega 
chip programming, without the onboard memory and CPU. If you look at the 
document "Mice" section, it describes the communication protocol.

Thanks for the chance to keep in touch with dear civilization. Tomorrow 
I'll feel up to crawling in the snow putting chains on the tractor tires.

Iznogoud wrote:
>>
>> And you are right about everything you say. I2C is great (TWI is old
>> Atmel's term). Python is popular (but Python used a tk GUI binding. And
>> tcl will nicely connect to an Arduino Uno R3 /dev/ttyACMX, and even run
>> "firmata."). So as you say you can have a marvelous smart terminal with
>> all these microcontrollers, but sometimes you still need to wire your
>> smart terminal to a serious linux box.
>>
>
> You seem to know more about this than I do. My serial port programming is very
> limited, precisely because we entered the era of the internet and everything
> is "simpler" now.
>
> My microconrtoller experience is limited to the Propeller Parallax chip, and
> I really like it. But you cannot beat a $40 full-blown Linux "desktop" like
> the Ras Pi. Blows my mind; you can fit one in your pocket and THERE is your
> portable computer.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Dec 14 11:21:00 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:21:00 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Serial Port complexity resent
In-Reply-To: <eccd2abd-6527-673a-cebc-617ab63b92d7@pinenet.com>
References: <8b7de222-fc3b-0217-c895-7d11fba10150@pinenet.com>
 <fff85e09-bc3e-e395-0bad-00e48d3641f4@pinenet.com>
 <20171214000707.GB30005@nobelware.com>
 <eccd2abd-6527-673a-cebc-617ab63b92d7@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20171214172100.GA2245@nobelware.com>

I do what I can to help and it is no big deal. People have helped me too.

I had downloaded that page long ago, it turns out. I love the ASCII timing
diagrams.

There is a funny mode story. In the 90s, when we had dial-ups, a friend changed
his password to the name of his newly-born daughter. He would dial in and then
the connection would drop. Then he realized that as the password was being
negotiated the modem would hangup because the name started with the leters:
"ath". This took him days to find, and I thought it was weird that the modem
still thought it was negotiating commands after it had established connection.
No, I am not sorry that those days are over!


From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Dec 14 20:09:31 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:09:31 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Serial Port complexity resent
In-Reply-To: <20171214172100.GA2245@nobelware.com>
References: <8b7de222-fc3b-0217-c895-7d11fba10150@pinenet.com>
 <fff85e09-bc3e-e395-0bad-00e48d3641f4@pinenet.com>
 <20171214000707.GB30005@nobelware.com>
 <eccd2abd-6527-673a-cebc-617ab63b92d7@pinenet.com>
 <20171214172100.GA2245@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <9bd63c5c-7c8c-6cf3-4c86-63533bfffbe1@pinenet.com>

Perhaps for the sake of raising interest, I'll add a few concepts that 
might refute "old is obsolete."

First, all the appropriate interest in I2C == TWI (Two Wire Interface) 
has obscured the fact that RS232 can also be a TWI (Three Wire 
Interface). The fact that it is asynchronous, bi-directional, and with 
line drivers that run at a car battery voltage are assets computer 
elitists shouldn't snub.

The internet isn't the only reason Amazon succeeds. Tons of physical 
product movement is highly automated. I'm the rough equivalent of the 
first Bush president who was confused by grocery store bar code readers. 
I'll never learn how ignorant I am.

I realize modern commodity computing is now videos, music, social media. 
No RS232 needed. But I hope I've challenged a few "conventional wisdom 
axioms" that prevent innovation. According to some energy and 
infrastructure advocate claims, 10's of $trillions will be spent 
re-inventing a new world. Linux and simple local communication will matter.

Iznogoud wrote:
> I do what I can to help and it is no big deal. People have helped me too.
>
> I had downloaded that page long ago, it turns out. I love the ASCII timing
> diagrams.
>
> There is a funny mode story. In the 90s, when we had dial-ups, a friend changed
> his password to the name of his newly-born daughter. He would dial in and then
> the connection would drop. Then he realized that as the password was being
> negotiated the modem would hangup because the name started with the leters:
> "ath". This took him days to find, and I thought it was weird that the modem
> still thought it was negotiating commands after it had established connection.
> No, I am not sorry that those days are over!
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Dec 21 07:14:07 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:14:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free Geeks
Message-ID: <f32ea328-80e0-6d33-392a-d26e4ab9f86d@pinenet.com>

in south Minneapolis was fun to visit last Saturday. They combine 
education, PC recycling and resale, and Linux introduction. They rely on 
volunteers. They install XUbuntu Linux for new users. Speaking with a 
long time volunteer, he seemed not to have heard about TCLUG.

My big urban adventure also included an inquiry regarding anybody doing 
circuit board fabrication. I was referred to TwinCities Makers dot org, 
a few blocks from Free Geeks. Their web site describes interests that 
include soldering and Arduino.

Both community groups were housed in nice old industrial structures.

From craigallynsmith at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 15:08:13 2017
From: craigallynsmith at gmail.com (Craig Smith)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 15:08:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Intranet Search
Message-ID: <CAFFxK9iw91tzZW=tROgva6c-sZyFgS-h6DSDHCAAsnXr9mPmiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Any recommendations on intranet search engines?

I?m considering three:

http://lucene.apache.org/ <http://www.opensearchserver.com/>

http://sphinxsearch.com/

http://www.opensearchserver.com/



I had been running MnogoSearch since the 90?s when it was called
UDMsearch.  Compiling their latest from source, won?t talk to current
versions of MySQL or Postgresql.  I did get binary package to work with
MySQL: the indexer populates 29 tables, but search interface
complains:  *Inverted
word index not found. *Their web board is ?Busy? and emails get bounced.
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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Dec 21 18:15:59 2017
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:15:59 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free Geeks
In-Reply-To: <f32ea328-80e0-6d33-392a-d26e4ab9f86d@pinenet.com>
References: <f32ea328-80e0-6d33-392a-d26e4ab9f86d@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <9CBB8D52-528C-4AC2-87C6-4A2EF6DC5008@cwis.biz>

FreeGeek is where I go to give my old hardware new life (donated upwards of $5,000 in gear there over the last five years) and also go to find random one-offs I?m missing like 36-48? 4-pin molex power cords.

It?s a great place.

As for a single volunteer (out of hundreds) I?m not surprised. There are many people that go in and out and some are old mainframe guys and some are 20-somethings in college.


> On Dec 21, 2017, at 7:14 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> 
> in south Minneapolis was fun to visit last Saturday. They combine education, PC recycling and resale, and Linux introduction. They rely on volunteers. They install XUbuntu Linux for new users. Speaking with a long time volunteer, he seemed not to have heard about TCLUG.
> 
> My big urban adventure also included an inquiry regarding anybody doing circuit board fabrication. I was referred to TwinCities Makers dot org, a few blocks from Free Geeks. Their web site describes interests that include soldering and Arduino.
> 
> Both community groups were housed in nice old industrial structures.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Dec 21 19:59:28 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:59:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] memtest86+ not with UEFI, so use memtest86
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712211948320.3376@taxa2>

I thought some of you would be interested in this issue.

I was missing the memtest86+ that used to be accessible from the grub 
menu.  I see it is installed...

$ apt-cache policy memtest86+
memtest86+:
   Installed: 5.01-3ubuntu2
   Candidate: 5.01-3ubuntu2
   Version table:
  *** 5.01-3ubuntu2 500
         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu artful/main amd64 Packages
         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

...but it turns out that the problem is that with UEFI we can't run it, so 
it isn't in the boot menu anymore with UEFI systems.  But with UEFI we can 
use this free (gratis) solution which I think is not free (libre) 
software:

https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm

I decided to use it anyway.  I downloaded the Linux/Mac "Image for 
creating bootable USB Drive" and followed the README instructions.  It was 
pretty straightforward.  I made one mistake: I saw that the USB was 
mounted as /dev/sdg1, so I used that for "<dev>" in the dd command, but 
that didn't work.  The right answer was to use /dev/sdg instead.

Booting from the USB then ran the test.

Best,
Mike

From j at packetgod.com  Thu Dec 21 20:18:00 2017
From: j at packetgod.com (J Cruit)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 20:18:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free Geeks
In-Reply-To: <9CBB8D52-528C-4AC2-87C6-4A2EF6DC5008@cwis.biz>
References: <f32ea328-80e0-6d33-392a-d26e4ab9f86d@pinenet.com>
 <9CBB8D52-528C-4AC2-87C6-4A2EF6DC5008@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <CADr-735zES8MYFps8F0+jVnZdzpg2mGMwmUWyZJ_CHHDVqrKeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Best folks on Earth, saved me when we needed to do forensics on an old old
machine providing us with an old cga monitor and some 5 1/4 floppies all
for free.

On Dec 21, 2017 6:16 PM, "Ryan Coleman" <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:

> FreeGeek is where I go to give my old hardware new life (donated upwards
> of $5,000 in gear there over the last five years) and also go to find
> random one-offs I?m missing like 36-48? 4-pin molex power cords.
>
> It?s a great place.
>
> As for a single volunteer (out of hundreds) I?m not surprised. There are
> many people that go in and out and some are old mainframe guys and some are
> 20-somethings in college.
>
>
> > On Dec 21, 2017, at 7:14 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> >
> > in south Minneapolis was fun to visit last Saturday. They combine
> education, PC recycling and resale, and Linux introduction. They rely on
> volunteers. They install XUbuntu Linux for new users. Speaking with a long
> time volunteer, he seemed not to have heard about TCLUG.
> >
> > My big urban adventure also included an inquiry regarding anybody doing
> circuit board fabrication. I was referred to TwinCities Makers dot org, a
> few blocks from Free Geeks. Their web site describes interests that include
> soldering and Arduino.
> >
> > Both community groups were housed in nice old industrial structures.
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
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From eng at pinenet.com  Thu Dec 21 21:57:04 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:57:04 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Free Geeks
In-Reply-To: <CADr-735zES8MYFps8F0+jVnZdzpg2mGMwmUWyZJ_CHHDVqrKeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f32ea328-80e0-6d33-392a-d26e4ab9f86d@pinenet.com>
 <9CBB8D52-528C-4AC2-87C6-4A2EF6DC5008@cwis.biz>
 <CADr-735zES8MYFps8F0+jVnZdzpg2mGMwmUWyZJ_CHHDVqrKeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a4da13ee-7fc2-2394-0b0b-796c07c9d483@pinenet.com>

Delightful.

I left with 2 like new books about GWBasic and QBasic. Plus 3 solid old 
atx cases with guts inside. Plus reference to TCMakers, and reminiscence 
of long gone similar efforts. All for $15 but I left $40. As a fat old 
farmer in bib overalls I got pushed out by the intro tour of 20 newbie 
volunteers. They need more space for fat old farmers.

For me, the books were a real find, but my new volunteer friend thought 
I was crazy. I remember when Basic on a hacked Altair 8800 board and 
cassette tape was new. And I tell the story how Finland's 
ftp://garbo.uwasa/msdos was full of hardware drivers when a SWede 
Finnish student decided to package them into an Intel platform Unix. 
Linus Torvalds was a product of his time and environment.

So now we have next generation micro-micro hardware boards. And Basic 
still won't die. I am delighted to see recycled innovation is alive.

J Cruit wrote:
> Best folks on Earth, saved me when we needed to do forensics on an old
> old machine providing us with an old cga monitor and some 5 1/4 floppies
> all for free.
>
> On Dec 21, 2017 6:16 PM, "Ryan Coleman" <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz
> <mailto:ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>> wrote:
>
>     FreeGeek is where I go to give my old hardware new life (donated
>     upwards of $5,000 in gear there over the last five years) and also
>     go to find random one-offs I?m missing like 36-48? 4-pin molex power
>     cords.
>
>     It?s a great place.
>
>     As for a single volunteer (out of hundreds) I?m not surprised. There
>     are many people that go in and out and some are old mainframe guys
>     and some are 20-somethings in college.
>
>
>     > On Dec 21, 2017, at 7:14 AM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com
>     <mailto:eng at pinenet.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     > in south Minneapolis was fun to visit last Saturday. They combine
>     education, PC recycling and resale, and Linux introduction. They
>     rely on volunteers. They install XUbuntu Linux for new users.
>     Speaking with a long time volunteer, he seemed not to have heard
>     about TCLUG.
>     >
>     > My big urban adventure also included an inquiry regarding anybody
>     doing circuit board fabrication. I was referred to TwinCities Makers
>     dot org, a few blocks from Free Geeks. Their web site describes
>     interests that include soldering and Arduino.
>     >
>     > Both community groups were housed in nice old industrial structures.
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>     > tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
>     > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
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>     tclug-list at mn-linux.org <mailto:tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
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>     <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Fri Dec 22 12:31:29 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 12:31:29 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] awk and update-alternatives
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712181425070.21613@taxahome2>

I have Ubuntu 17.10 on two boxes.  I ran this command on both of them...

echo 123456789 | awk '{printf("%'"'"'d\n", $1)}'

...and the awk command worked on one box but not on the other.

The path to awk, and to other *awk commands, is /usr/bin, but after that 
it gets complicated.  On the machine where it worked, I had installed 
gawk.  I used to think that a GNU/Linux installation would come with GNU 
awk by default, but it doesn't.  It comes with mawk instead.  This is the 
system of symlinks:

/usr/bin/awk -> /etc/alternatives/awk
/etc/alternatives/awk -> /usr/bin/mawk
/usr/bin/mawk

/usr/bin/nawk -> /etc/alternatives/nawk
/etc/alternatives/nawk -> /usr/bin/mawk
/usr/bin/mawk

So with the default Ubuntu, you have awk, mawk and nawk, but awk and nawk 
are symlinks to mawk.  So you really have only mawk.  Why?  I have no 
idea.  So next I install gawk and that changes things a bit.  It adds the 
gawk binary in /usr/bin, but it also changes the symlinks:

/usr/bin/awk -> /etc/alternatives/awk
/etc/alternatives/awk -> /usr/bin/gawk
/usr/bin/gawk

/usr/bin/nawk -> /etc/alternatives/nawk
/etc/alternatives/nawk -> /usr/bin/gawk
/usr/bin/gawk

/usr/bin/igawk
/usr/bin/mawk

So now I have awk, gawk, igawk, mawk and nawk, but while awk and nawk used 
to link to mawk, now they link to gawk, so I really only have gawk, igawk 
and mawk.

I guess it is explained here, but the thing that's missing is why 
GNU/Linux doesn't come with GNU awk, forcing users to add it later...

https://askubuntu.com/questions/561621/choosing-awk-version-on-ubuntu-14-04


About the error:

When the awk command above worked (i.e., with gawk), I got this output...

123,456,789

...and when it didn't work (i.e., with mawk), I got this error:

awk: run time error: improper conversion(number 1) in printf("%'d
")
 	FILENAME="-" FNR=1 NR=1

Best,
Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sun Dec 24 01:18:19 2017
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 01:18:19 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to launch VLC from chromium-browser
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712240115210.5808@taxahome2>

I'm not sure if this is doable, but it seems like it should be.  If I see 
a link to an MP4 file, I'd like to be able to right-click on it and tell 
it to open in VLC.  In fact, if "Open in VLC" was always an option when I 
right-clicked a link, that would be great.  Any ideas?

Mike

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Sun Dec 24 01:23:54 2017
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 01:23:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [tclug-list] how to launch VLC from chromium-browser
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712240115210.5808@taxahome2>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712240115210.5808@taxahome2>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1712240123250.792@rooster>

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/open-in-vlc-media-player/ihpiinojhnfhpdmmacgmpoonphhimkaj?hl=en

Google is your friend (in this case especially).


On Sun, 24 Dec 2017, Mike Miller wrote:

> I'm not sure if this is doable, but it seems like it should be.  If I see a 
> link to an MP4 file, I'd like to be able to right-click on it and tell it to 
> open in VLC.  In fact, if "Open in VLC" was always an option when I 
> right-clicked a link, that would be great.  Any ideas?
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Wed Dec 27 07:35:11 2017
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 07:35:11 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] memtest86+ not with UEFI, so use memtest86
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712211948320.3376@taxa2>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1712211948320.3376@taxa2>
Message-ID: <df0514bf-d8c5-35f5-5d16-2928e4c02676@pinenet.com>

I am quite interested in how the UEFI BIOS might work. I don't have any 
systems using it now, but a little reading suggests there is a switch to 
boot from standard IBM BIOS. Really, I don't know anything about it.

I believe memtest86 might be the very old version.

Not to change to completely off topic, but playing with "FreeDOS" is 
fun. They seem to have a real working OS. So far it seems to work with 
QBasic, QuickPascal, etc., beautifully. As discussed before, Industrial 
PCs and embedded x86 with RS232 ports galore are available. I would hate 
to see yet another ?advancement? screw up !advancement!

Mike Miller wrote:
> I thought some of you would be interested in this issue.
>
> I was missing the memtest86+ that used to be accessible from the grub
> menu.  I see it is installed...
>
> $ apt-cache policy memtest86+
> memtest86+:
>   Installed: 5.01-3ubuntu2
>   Candidate: 5.01-3ubuntu2
>   Version table:
>  *** 5.01-3ubuntu2 500
>         500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu artful/main amd64 Packages
>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>
> ...but it turns out that the problem is that with UEFI we can't run it,
> so it isn't in the boot menu anymore with UEFI systems.  But with UEFI
> we can use this free (gratis) solution which I think is not free (libre)
> software:
>
> https://www.memtest86.com/download.htm
>
> I decided to use it anyway.  I downloaded the Linux/Mac "Image for
> creating bootable USB Drive" and followed the README instructions.  It
> was pretty straightforward.  I made one mistake: I saw that the USB was
> mounted as /dev/sdg1, so I used that for "<dev>" in the dd command, but
> that didn't work.  The right answer was to use /dev/sdg instead.
>
> Booting from the USB then ran the test.
>
> Best,
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sat Dec 30 19:18:16 2017
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:18:16 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] raid log?
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9C+KYDn67fdSjLH6uQCsLRhGgs0VtEOanUQ56d54vLXNA@mail.gmail.com>

when a (centos6) raid rebuilds, is that logged somewhere?  where?


...has been rebooting a lot lately (see last listing below).  Also there
> was the raid rebuild this morning around 9:30 to 11:30...
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From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sat Dec 30 22:56:57 2017
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 04:56:57 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] raid log?
In-Reply-To: <CAD+dB9C+KYDn67fdSjLH6uQCsLRhGgs0VtEOanUQ56d54vLXNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD+dB9C+KYDn67fdSjLH6uQCsLRhGgs0VtEOanUQ56d54vLXNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20171231045657.GA23827@nobelware.com>

> 
> when a (centos6) raid rebuilds, is that logged somewhere?  where?
> 
> 
> ...has been rebooting a lot lately (see last listing below).  Also there
> > was the raid rebuild this morning around 9:30 to 11:30...


It is not about CentOS. You mean "Linux (software) RAID" here. It would be in
/var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog. In messages you will see that it started
rebuilding.

You can trigger a rebuild yourself. Suppose you have a RAID with 2 devices:
/dev/sdc6 /dev/sdc7 under /dev/md0.

mdadm /dev/md0 --fail /dev/sdc6
mdadm /dev/md0 --remove /dev/sdc6
mdadm /dev/md0 --add /dev/sdc6

This will remove the first partition and then add it back. IT will rebuild
that partition, depending on what mirroring RAID it is. RAID0 will just fail
the filesystem.

Now look in /proc/mdstat for info and progress:

cat /proc/mdstat

If you look in /var/log/messages you will see the logs of the events. I would
open a terminal and monitor the file before doing the above. Do this:

tail -f /var/log/messages

This will do.




From tclug1 at whitleymott.net  Sun Dec 31 12:15:13 2017
From: tclug1 at whitleymott.net (gregrwm)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 12:15:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] raid log?
Message-ID: <CAD+dB9Av92fSirVhidpT_2qOVYs=3_cWVHys-E9SVtcMJBXJqA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > when a (centos6) raid rebuilds, is that logged somewhere?  where?
>
> It is not about CentOS. You mean "Linux (software) RAID" here. It would be
> in
> /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog. In messages you will see that it
> started
> rebuilding.


ah, my colleague finally clarified, a resync, not a rebuild, was noticed by
nagios, glad of that, and i know i'd see it as it happens in /proc/mdstat,
but surprised to see nothing in /var/log/messages, it looks like
centos6/mdadm don't log such things?
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