From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Fri Mar 10 08:03:34 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 08:03:34 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! Message-ID: I'm exploring switching my ISP provider to CenturyLink. I test my firewall with ShieldsUP! Unfortunately, the heavy majority of "stealth" ports using my current provider display as "closed" using CenturyLink. Does anyone have experience with CenturyLink/ShieldsUP! and CenturyLink's modem settings? I hope it's appropriate posting this question here. It's perhaps not technically a Linux question but I am using Linux and iptables. From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Fri Mar 10 12:21:09 2017 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:21:09 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3/10/2017 8:03 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: > > I'm exploring switching my ISP provider to CenturyLink. I test my > firewall with ShieldsUP! Unfortunately, the heavy majority of > "stealth" ports using my current provider display as "closed" using > CenturyLink. Does anyone have experience with CenturyLink/ShieldsUP! > and CenturyLink's modem settings? > > I hope it's appropriate posting this question here. It's perhaps not > technically a Linux question but I am using Linux and iptables. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Are you going to use the Century Link modem as your router or use a Linux router like Ipfire, Ipcop for the router. I'm using Ipfire and use the pppoe setting so the moden doesn't have anything to do with my network internals. Joseph From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Fri Mar 10 15:34:30 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:34:30 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> On 03/10/2017 12:21 PM, Joseph Key wrote: > > On 3/10/2017 8:03 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: >> >> I'm exploring switching my ISP provider to CenturyLink. I test my >> firewall with ShieldsUP! Unfortunately, the heavy majority of >> "stealth" ports using my current provider display as "closed" using >> CenturyLink. Does anyone have experience with CenturyLink/ShieldsUP! >> and CenturyLink's modem settings? >> >> I hope it's appropriate posting this question here. It's perhaps not >> technically a Linux question but I am using Linux and iptables. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > Are you going to use the Century Link modem as your router or use a > Linux router like Ipfire, Ipcop for the router. I'm using Ipfire and > use the pppoe setting so the moden doesn't have anything to do with my > network internals. > > Joseph > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > I'm uncertain I understand your question but I intend to use only the CenturyLink-supplied modem. I wonder if PPPoE is the problem. As I understand, CenturyLink allows nothing but. May I ask if your ports display as stealth with ShieldsUP! https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2. I'm not a shill for the product and there are other ways to check firewalls, but I'm used to it and "closed" versus "stealth" ports seems a step backward. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Mar 10 19:24:33 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 01:24:33 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> References: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20170311012433.GA29146@nobelware.com> I assume that the following message that I got when I tried this test is a good one: THE EQUIPMENT AT THE TARGET IP ADDRESS DID NOT RESPOND TO OUR UPnP PROBES! (That's good news!) That was behind CenturyLink's modem (older and very old DSL setup with low speed). Behind that there is a router, and there are a few ports that are forwarded through both routers to one box. But reverse SSH tunnels are my jam. From jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org Fri Mar 10 23:04:52 2017 From: jkey at tomobiki.dyndns.org (Joseph Key) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 23:04:52 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> References: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3/10/2017 3:34 PM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: > I'm uncertain I understand your question but I intend to use only the > CenturyLink-supplied modem. I wonder if PPPoE is the problem. As I > understand, CenturyLink allows nothing but. > > May I ask if your ports display as stealth with ShieldsUP! > https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2. I'm not a shill for the > product and there are other ways to check firewalls, but I'm used to > it and "closed" versus "stealth" ports seems a step backward. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > When I did a Shields up scan all were stealth except the ports I have open (22,25,80,443). --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Sat Mar 11 07:24:53 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 07:24:53 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: <20170311012433.GA29146@nobelware.com> References: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> <20170311012433.GA29146@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On 03/10/2017 07:24 PM, Iznogoud wrote: > I assume that the following message that I got when I tried this test is a > good one: > > THE EQUIPMENT AT THE TARGET IP ADDRESS > DID NOT RESPOND TO OUR UPnP PROBES! > (That's good news!) > > That was behind CenturyLink's modem (older and very old DSL setup with low > speed). Behind that there is a router, and there are a few ports that are > forwarded through both routers to one box. But reverse SSH tunnels are my jam. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > . > I'm confused. Is "That's good news!" your notation or did that display with the test. It seems your box wasn't analyzed. You should be receiving an analysis of your first 1,056 ports. Each port should be reported as open, closed, or stealth. That message indicates to me ShieldsUP! isn't analyzing your box. I'm not an internet security whiz, but on my current system all ports report as stealth. When I tested on my CenturyLink modem I believe only four ports were stealth, but the test was done. Joseph Key reported his test completed and all ports reported stealth but for those he needs open. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sat Mar 11 10:11:30 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 16:11:30 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: References: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> <20170311012433.GA29146@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170311161130.GA27644@nobelware.com> > > I'm confused. Is "That's good news!" your notation or did that display > with the test. It seems your box wasn't analyzed. > Sorry this did not come across clearly. That was _not_ my editorial comment; that was what the website put out in large green font, quoted again below: > > > >THE EQUIPMENT AT THE TARGET IP ADDRESS > >DID NOT RESPOND TO OUR UPnP PROBES! > >(That's good news!) > > But the above only says "UPnP probes, whatever that happens to be. > You should be receiving an analysis of your first 1,056 ports. Each > port should be reported as open, closed, or stealth. That message > indicates to me ShieldsUP! isn't analyzing your box. > I was expecting something more verbose, as you are suggesting. That did not happen. My forwarded ports are upwards of 10000, on purpose, so they would not be probed. If it is just a port-scan, I do not know how useful it is for somebody like me. Any attempt to penetrate the DSL modem would have to be exploiting some vanurability of the firmware, or a "back door" of the hardware (say, some strange sequence of ICMP -ping- packets that triggers a back door to open). This is part of the reason why I have a router sitting behind the modem, i.e. to have another layer that needs to be pentrated. The inner router is running some embedded linux and is pretty good at providing report logs, which are emailed to an internal email account on a box that is sitting behind the second router. I have had only one scare in several years where I did not know where some connections were going, but maybe I have got lucky overall. I am especially paranoid on the hardware backdoors being in place. There was a very interesting 2-minute long segment on NPR/MPR yesterday morning around 8:30am where a journalist was asking "Alexa" about a government agency, and the final question (and I quote) was: "Alexa, are you connected to the ...?" The software did not respond with anything audible, and the other journalist's commentary was: "That must be Alexa's version of 'no comment'." Welcome to 1984. What a surreal feeling to be thinking of books like 1984 looking like "history" and funny films like Idiocracy looking like "documentaries." Or maybe I am just way to old and cynical... Most young people among my colleauges have no concern whatsoever for all that we find out is fact when it comes to our digital presense being captured and scrutinized. That fact on people bothers me more than the fact that my digital existence is being scrutinized. I just received my "I support encryption" shirt from EFF. Donate $100 and get yours. It is money well spent. From rhayman at pureice.com Sat Mar 11 13:46:16 2017 From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 13:46:16 -0600 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: <20170311161130.GA27644@nobelware.com> References: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> <20170311012433.GA29146@nobelware.com> <20170311161130.GA27644@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <1489261576.3662.30.camel@pureice.com> On Sat, 2017-03-11 at 16:11 +0000, Iznogoud wrote: > > > > > > I'm confused.??Is "That's good news!" your notation or did that > > display? > > with the test.??It seems your box wasn't analyzed. > > > Sorry this did not come across clearly. That was _not_ my editorial > comment; > that was what the website put out in large green font, quoted again > below: > > > > > > > > > > > > THE EQUIPMENT AT THE TARGET IP ADDRESS > > > DID NOT RESPOND TO OUR UPnP PROBES! > > > (That's good news!) > > > > But the above only says "UPnP probes, whatever that happens to be. > > > > > > You should be receiving an analysis of your first 1,056 > > ports.??Each? > > port should be reported as open, closed, or stealth.??That message? > > indicates to me ShieldsUP! isn't analyzing your box. > > > I was expecting something more verbose, as you are suggesting. That > did not > happen. My forwarded ports are upwards of 10000, on purpose, so they > would > not be probed. > > If it is just a port-scan, I do not know how useful it is for > somebody like > me. Any attempt to penetrate the DSL modem would have to be > exploiting some > vanurability of the firmware, or a "back door" of the hardware (say, > some > strange sequence of ICMP -ping- packets that triggers a back door to > open). > This is part of the reason why I have a router sitting behind the > modem, i.e. > to have another layer that needs to be pentrated. The inner router is > running > some embedded linux and is pretty good at providing report logs, > which are > emailed to an internal email account on a box that is sitting behind > the second > router. I have had only one scare in several years where I did not > know where > some connections were going, but maybe I have got lucky overall. > > I am especially paranoid on the hardware backdoors being in place. > There was > a very interesting 2-minute long segment on NPR/MPR yesterday morning > around > 8:30am where a journalist was asking "Alexa" about a government > agency, and > the final question (and I quote) was: "Alexa, are you connected to > the ...?" > The software did not respond with anything audible, and the other > journalist's > commentary was: "That must be Alexa's version of 'no comment'." > Welcome to > 1984. What a surreal feeling to be thinking of books like 1984 > looking like > "history" and funny films like Idiocracy looking like > "documentaries." Or maybe > I am just way to old and cynical... Most young people among my > colleauges have > no concern whatsoever for all that we find out is fact when it comes > to our > digital presense being captured and scrutinized. That fact on people > bothers me > more than the fact that my digital existence is being scrutinized. > > I just received my "I support encryption" shirt from EFF. Donate $100 > and get > yours. It is money well spent. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Ioannis -? Right below that UPnP probe button are what look like column headers, but in reality they are also buttons. Click the "All Service Ports" text to get the port scan being referenced. I should hope to spit that UPnP ports are not exposed externally by *any* device - that would be a wide open front door with a flashing welcome sign and you'd already be compromised if that were so. I don't even have UPnP enabled internally. Hope that helps. Shields up tells me that I am responding to pings. I have my cable modem set to bridge mode and my firewall device explicitly has "respond to ping" disabled. That means either my firewall is broken or the cable modem is responding to pings and I bet it's the cable modem. I couldn't find a way to disable responding to pings by logging into the cable modem... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sun Mar 12 11:12:52 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:12:52 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] CenturyLink DSL modem settings and ShieldsUP! In-Reply-To: <1489261576.3662.30.camel@pureice.com> References: <52e1664d-d3f1-ba7c-665e-02d43bf8081d@gmail.com> <20170311012433.GA29146@nobelware.com> <20170311161130.GA27644@nobelware.com> <1489261576.3662.30.camel@pureice.com> Message-ID: <20170312161252.GA29144@nobelware.com> > Click the "All Service Ports" text to get the port scan being > referenced. Aha. Thanks for clarifying this. I will do the scan as soon as I get a browser window behind the router/modem and will report back. The website looked really 90s and saturating/non-intuitive, but it was user-error from my end. > Shields up tells me that I am responding to pings. I have my cable > modem set to bridge mode and my firewall device explicitly has "respond > to ping" disabled. > That means either my firewall is broken or the cable modem is > responding to pings and I bet it's the cable modem. > I couldn't find a way to disable responding to pings by logging into > the cable modem... Not surprising at all... I am sure that from the "customer service" point of view your provider wants to be able to, at the very least, get an idea of whether the router/modem is alive. Given that everything has had service ports for over 10 years now, chances are the latest firmware simply does not allow a user to turn them off. I can see how they would want to sell you a car with the hood welded shut. From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Mon Mar 13 10:21:27 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 10:21:27 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? Message-ID: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> Is anyone using Thunderbird as a news reader? It easily configures to read but I'm never prompted to enter a password or username. I'd like to post a topic to the news group. From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Mon Mar 13 10:25:37 2017 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 10:25:37 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? In-Reply-To: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> References: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> What newsgroup? > On Mar 13, 2017, at 10:21 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: > > > Is anyone using Thunderbird as a news reader? It easily configures to read but I'm never prompted to enter a password or username. I'd like to post a topic to the news group. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Mon Mar 13 10:31:13 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 10:31:13 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? In-Reply-To: <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> References: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <8ce5c67f-074a-4798-1f01-dc02a5b5de35@gmail.com> On 03/13/2017 10:25 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: > What newsgroup? >> On Mar 13, 2017, at 10:21 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> Is anyone using Thunderbird as a news reader? It easily configures to read but I'm never prompted to enter a password or username. I'd like to post a topic to the news group. >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > news.grc.com I can easily configure it to receive the feed. The problem is I don't see where to enter a password or username. Is Thunderbird read only? From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Mon Mar 13 10:40:57 2017 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 10:40:57 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? In-Reply-To: <8ce5c67f-074a-4798-1f01-dc02a5b5de35@gmail.com> References: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> <8ce5c67f-074a-4798-1f01-dc02a5b5de35@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1A59DF8B-576F-403A-9C5C-DFB7942C68AE@cwis.biz> That doesn?t have anything to do with the Twin Cities Linux User Group?. > On Mar 13, 2017, at 10:31 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: > > On 03/13/2017 10:25 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >> What newsgroup? >>> On Mar 13, 2017, at 10:21 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> Is anyone using Thunderbird as a news reader? It easily configures to read but I'm never prompted to enter a password or username. I'd like to post a topic to the news group. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > news.grc.com I can easily configure it to receive the feed. The problem is I don't see where to enter a password or username. Is Thunderbird read only? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Mon Mar 13 10:53:00 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (. .) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 10:53:00 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? In-Reply-To: <1A59DF8B-576F-403A-9C5C-DFB7942C68AE@cwis.biz> References: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> <8ce5c67f-074a-4798-1f01-dc02a5b5de35@gmail.com> <1A59DF8B-576F-403A-9C5C-DFB7942C68AE@cwis.biz> Message-ID: Well, Thunderbird is a Linux program. And if the answer is no my next question would be if anyone can suggest a Linux news reader. That's also out of bounds? On 3/13/17, Ryan Coleman wrote: > That doesn?t have anything to do with the Twin Cities Linux User Group?. > > >> On Mar 13, 2017, at 10:31 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: >> >> On 03/13/2017 10:25 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote: >>> What newsgroup? >>>> On Mar 13, 2017, at 10:21 AM, rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Is anyone using Thunderbird as a news reader? It easily configures to >>>> read but I'm never prompted to enter a password or username. I'd like >>>> to post a topic to the news group. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >>> >> news.grc.com I can easily configure it to receive the feed. The problem >> is I don't see where to enter a password or username. Is Thunderbird read >> only? >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Mon Mar 13 12:08:44 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 17:08:44 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? In-Reply-To: References: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> <8ce5c67f-074a-4798-1f01-dc02a5b5de35@gmail.com> <1A59DF8B-576F-403A-9C5C-DFB7942C68AE@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <20170313170844.GA17618@nobelware.com> I think the question is relevant. Are we talking USENET here? (Just curious) From n0nas at amsat.org Mon Mar 13 12:49:15 2017 From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 12:49:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 147, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Under Windows, I used to use the NewsBin reader program. It was great! But they don't have a Linux version and I didn't want to fool with WINE. So what I'm currently using as a binary news reader is SABnzbd+. I use it with my Usenetserver account and it works fine. But I've never tried to post with it, I don't think it supports posting. The first link just confirms Thunderbird can be your newsreader. The second link is how one service provider wants Thunderbird setup for use with their servers. It should provide a fairly complete idea of how you need to set it up for grc.com. Step 9 specifically sets up account name and password for remote server access. Since you are already using Thunderbird, I doubt you'd gain anything by switching to Seamonkey for combined browser-email-newsreader...... Doug Reed. -- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin "When seconds count, help is only minutes away." Does Gun Control protect you, the criminal, or the Government? From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Mon Mar 13 14:23:45 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 14:23:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? In-Reply-To: <20170313170844.GA17618@nobelware.com> References: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> <8ce5c67f-074a-4798-1f01-dc02a5b5de35@gmail.com> <1A59DF8B-576F-403A-9C5C-DFB7942C68AE@cwis.biz> <20170313170844.GA17618@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <78bbac41-aee3-ed6a-7efc-375c8d5e7793@gmail.com> On 03/13/2017 12:08 PM, Iznogoud wrote: > I think the question is relevant. > > Are we talking USENET here? (Just curious) > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Thank you for responding. I think it's based on USENET. But I've never subscribed to a news group so I have little knowledge of the subject. Prior to posting I'd searched for Linux-based news readers and found Thunderbird. But again, I can read but don't see how to post. I read good things about PAN but it's not compiled even though I compiled gmime. I did just successfully compile Alpine so that might work. From rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com Tue Mar 14 07:47:39 2017 From: rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com (. .) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 07:47:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 147, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3/13/17, Doug Reed wrote: > Under Windows, I used to use the NewsBin reader program. It was great! > But they don't have a Linux version and I didn't want to fool with > WINE. So what I'm currently using as a binary news reader is > SABnzbd+. I use it with my Usenetserver account and it works fine. But > I've never tried to post with it, I don't think it supports posting. > > > > The first link just confirms Thunderbird can be your newsreader. The > second link is how one service provider wants Thunderbird setup for > use with their servers. It should provide a fairly complete idea of > how you need to set it up for grc.com. Step 9 specifically sets up > account name and password for remote server access. > > Since you are already using Thunderbird, I doubt you'd gain anything > by switching to Seamonkey for combined browser-email-newsreader...... > > Doug Reed. > > > > > > > -- > "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. > Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin > > "When seconds count, help is only minutes away." > Does Gun Control protect you, the criminal, or the Government? > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > Thank you, I'd used the steps shown in your links but never receive prompts for username or password. I am using 45.7.1 so perhaps things have changed. For instance. there is no Tools/Account Settings. It's now Edit/Account Settings. If your news reader doesn't support posting perhaps Thunderbird no longer does. Regardless, I did finally get PAN to compile and that does very clearly prompt for both so I think I'm set. I do appreciate your help. From PJ.world at hotmail.com Tue Mar 14 12:17:43 2017 From: PJ.world at hotmail.com (paul g) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 17:17:43 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 147, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Take it easy though. Ryan Coleman didn't get to be so smart overnight. ________________________________ From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org on behalf of Doug Reed Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 12:49 PM To: tclug-list at mn-linux.org Subject: Re: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 147, Issue 4 Under Windows, I used to use the NewsBin reader program. It was great! But they don't have a Linux version and I didn't want to fool with WINE. So what I'm currently using as a binary news reader is SABnzbd+. I use it with my Usenetserver account and it works fine. But I've never tried to post with it, I don't think it supports posting. [http://hj5g82xymr4kip0r4bbxg7uj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/thunderbird.jpg] Mozilla Thunderbird Newsreader - Newsgroup Reviews www.newsgroupreviews.com Mozilla's Thunderbird allows you to easily view and post to text newsgroups. Learn more about the news reader and setup instructions. Thunderbird Usenet Newsreader Setup Tutorial - Fast Usenet www.fastusenet.org Setup Thunderbird As Usenet Newsreader. Step 1: Download Mozilla Thunderbird from the official homepage here. Step 2: Launch the newly downloaded .exe setup file and ... The first link just confirms Thunderbird can be your newsreader. The second link is how one service provider wants Thunderbird setup for use with their servers. It should provide a fairly complete idea of how you need to set it up for grc.com. Step 9 specifically sets up account name and password for remote server access. Since you are already using Thunderbird, I doubt you'd gain anything by switching to Seamonkey for combined browser-email-newsreader...... Doug Reed. -- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin "When seconds count, help is only minutes away." Does Gun Control protect you, the criminal, or the Government? _______________________________________________ TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tclug-list at mn-linux.org http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list tclug-list Info Page - mailman.mn-linux.org mailman.mn-linux.org The Twin Cities Linux Users Group is a group of Linux users in the Twin Cities (Minnesota) area. We have monthly meetings in which we discuss various topics releated ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.chew.baka at gmail.com Tue Mar 14 12:26:52 2017 From: mr.chew.baka at gmail.com (B-o-B De Mars) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:26:52 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 147, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tools/Account Settings is how it is on windows builds, and edit/account setting is how it is on Linux builds. It's always been this way. Nothing has changed. You can use Thunderbird to post to usenet. I use it & post almost daily (on windows & linux - depending where I happen to be sitting at that moment). Have you tried to post to usenet yet in Tbird? When you do for the first time it will ask for your cred's. Otherwise goto Pref's -> security -> password -> saved password. You can delete (to be reprompted to enter) or modify them there. On 3/14/2017 7:47 AM, . . wrote: > > Thank you, I'd used the steps shown in your links but never receive > prompts for username or password. I am using 45.7.1 so perhaps things > have changed. For instance. there is no Tools/Account Settings. It's > now Edit/Account Settings. > > If your news reader doesn't support posting perhaps Thunderbird no longer does. > > Regardless, I did finally get PAN to compile and that does very > clearly prompt for both so I think I'm set. I do appreciate your > help. > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From carl.soderstrom at real-time.com Mon Mar 13 15:36:59 2017 From: carl.soderstrom at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 16:36:59 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] Thunderbird news reader. Password? Username? In-Reply-To: <78bbac41-aee3-ed6a-7efc-375c8d5e7793@gmail.com> References: <24a97107-997a-c7fc-c9eb-7ecf40f83b42@gmail.com> <2394369D-008D-4657-9773-3AE7B0CFFAEB@cwis.biz> <8ce5c67f-074a-4798-1f01-dc02a5b5de35@gmail.com> <1A59DF8B-576F-403A-9C5C-DFB7942C68AE@cwis.biz> <20170313170844.GA17618@nobelware.com> <78bbac41-aee3-ed6a-7efc-375c8d5e7793@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20170313203659.GA55690@real-time.com> On 03/13 02:23 , rhubarbpieguy at gmail.com wrote: > Prior to posting I'd searched for Linux-based news readers and found > Thunderbird. But again, I can read but don't see how to post. I read good > things about PAN but it's not compiled even though I compiled gmime. I would highly recommend PAN. I used it for years to read Usenet. http://pan.rebelbase.com/ Packages are available in the Debian and Ubuntu repositories, so just 'apt-get install pan'. If you're on a Red Hat or other distro, I don't know. Search your package repository as always. -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Fri Mar 17 11:36:45 2017 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 11:36:45 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ meetings Message-ID: Shalom Are you interested in quarterly C++ meetings in the Twin Cities? It seems to me that groups that meet on a monthly basis: http://meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-grou p-meetings-in-march-2017.html tend to run out of topics/steam. We could probably meet at J. Arthur's coffee or an office building in the St. Paul/Roseville area. (I know of two where we might be able to meet.) I'd like to talk about what I've been working on, and hope others will be willing to talk about things they are interested in. Ideally we could have our first meeting in the April - June quarter, probably in May or June. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - Happy St. Patrick's Day. http://webEbenezer.net 651 356-8503 <%28651%29%20356-8503> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tclug at mikerochford.com Fri Mar 17 14:30:55 2017 From: tclug at mikerochford.com (Mike Rochford) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 14:30:55 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] Wireless Routers Message-ID: I have a bunch of wireless routers that I no longer want. ASUS - RT-AC66U - $75 ASUS - RT-N66U - Running DDWRT - $25 ASUS - RT-N16 (NO Powersupply) - $15 Linksys BEFSR41 (qty 2) - $5 each or all of them for $90. Please let me know if you interested. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eng at pinenet.com Sat Mar 18 07:56:16 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 07:56:16 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? Message-ID: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> I ran across the Wikileaks link describing modern "wiretapping" methods. https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/index.html Maybe I read it all wrong, and I only read this page, but it looks like Linux is the tool used to hack into our digital communications grid. All it seems to imply to dumb old me is this once obscure geek toy OS has come a long way to respectable status. Given the accuse first ask questions later nature of our modern political system, we Linux fans and the TCLUG list might already be under suspicion. Franz Kafka and James Bond couldn't match the current craziness. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sat Mar 18 08:23:22 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 13:23:22 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170318132322.GA5722@nobelware.com> > > Are you interested in quarterly C++ meetings in the Twin Cities? > It seems to me that groups that meet on a monthly basis: > http://meetingcpp.com/index.php/newsreader/items/c-user-grou > p-meetings-in-march-2017.html > > tend to run out of topics/steam. I would attend depending on the topic. I probably could not make it a habbit to attend if it were monthly. I would certainly make the first one. You may want to consider scouting Meetup for a similar group in town. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sat Mar 18 08:36:55 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 13:36:55 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> > > I ran across the Wikileaks link describing modern "wiretapping" methods. > > https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/index.html > > Maybe I read it all wrong, and I only read this page, but it looks like > Linux is the tool used to hack into our digital communications grid. > Seen this. It is no surprise, as there is much more documentation (but also versatility) that comes with Linux. I'd the same if I were them. And with Wine they can probably mix-and-match for getting to penetrate other OSs. One comment on your title. I think the government is doing less "abuse" in the sense that you put it compared to what Wall Street does with Linux. > All it seems to imply to dumb old me is this once obscure geek toy OS > has come a long way to respectable status. > I should say something that starts with "unless you've been living under a rock you'd want know that" and ends with Linux has been mainstream for years. It runs our global infrastructure, and there was a youtube video of a TEDx talk on that (given by Linus' boss in Portland some years ago). > Given the accuse first ask questions later nature of our modern > political system, we Linux fans and the TCLUG list might already be > under suspicion. Franz Kafka and James Bond couldn't match the current > craziness. > Two things: (a) The "accuse first" is mostly a self-serving _economic_model_ in my humble opinion, far from an efficient way of doing things (in a sense that an economist would put it). It creates jobs to have a mess of things, and if Y2K was not a prime example of this, the book "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace" puts it well for a different aspect of our world. The point is made here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_war (b) Wasn't it said that NSA has a 3-day live buffer of the internet traffic? Storing text, like emails, is really cheap in comparison. This crap we talk about here will live forevah! From eng at pinenet.com Sat Mar 18 09:06:20 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 09:06:20 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> Actually, I have been "living under a rock." More accurately, piles of them, mostly all alone. So how would I know Linux has become "mainstream??" How many Linux programmers would you guess there are in Mora, MN?? After I bust a gut using winter firewood, I bust a gut building concrete/rock/and steel summer foundations. Recently, I started learning pthreads, and I blame that all on you, smarty pants. Until my gut heals and I can work outside and bust it again. Iznogoud wrote: >> I ran across the Wikileaks link describing modern "wiretapping" methods. >> >> https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/index.html >> >> Maybe I read it all wrong, and I only read this page, but it looks like >> Linux is the tool used to hack into our digital communications grid. >> > Seen this. It is no surprise, as there is much more documentation (but also > versatility) that comes with Linux. I'd the same if I were them. And with > Wine they can probably mix-and-match for getting to penetrate other OSs. > > One comment on your title. I think the government is doing less "abuse" in the > sense that you put it compared to what Wall Street does with Linux. > > >> All it seems to imply to dumb old me is this once obscure geek toy OS >> has come a long way to respectable status. >> > I should say something that starts with "unless you've been living under a rock > you'd want know that" and ends with Linux has been mainstream for years. It > runs our global infrastructure, and there was a youtube video of a TEDx talk > on that (given by Linus' boss in Portland some years ago). > > >> Given the accuse first ask questions later nature of our modern >> political system, we Linux fans and the TCLUG list might already be >> under suspicion. Franz Kafka and James Bond couldn't match the current >> craziness. >> > Two things: > > (a) The "accuse first" is mostly a self-serving _economic_model_ in my humble > opinion, far from an efficient way of doing things (in a sense that an > economist would put it). It creates jobs to have a mess of things, and if > Y2K was not a prime example of this, the book "Perpetual War for Perpetual > Peace" puts it well for a different aspect of our world. The point is made > here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_war > > (b) Wasn't it said that NSA has a 3-day live buffer of the internet traffic? > Storing text, like emails, is really cheap in comparison. This crap we talk > about here will live forevah! > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Sat Mar 18 09:51:15 2017 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 09:51:15 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <161DC650-B253-460C-A9E5-FB8946269845@cwis.biz> For most platforms they run on either a Linux variant or Windows CE. And of that it?s a 70-30 split. So go figure. Your ATM is 60-40. > On Mar 18, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Rick Engebretson wrote: > > Actually, I have been "living under a rock." More accurately, piles of them, mostly all alone. So how would I know Linux has become "mainstream??" How many Linux programmers would you guess there are in Mora, MN?? After I bust a gut using winter firewood, I bust a gut building concrete/rock/and steel summer foundations. > > Recently, I started learning pthreads, and I blame that all on you, smarty pants. Until my gut heals and I can work outside and bust it again. > > Iznogoud wrote: >>> I ran across the Wikileaks link describing modern "wiretapping" methods. >>> >>> https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/index.html >>> >>> Maybe I read it all wrong, and I only read this page, but it looks like >>> Linux is the tool used to hack into our digital communications grid. >>> >> Seen this. It is no surprise, as there is much more documentation (but also >> versatility) that comes with Linux. I'd the same if I were them. And with >> Wine they can probably mix-and-match for getting to penetrate other OSs. >> >> One comment on your title. I think the government is doing less "abuse" in the >> sense that you put it compared to what Wall Street does with Linux. >> >> >>> All it seems to imply to dumb old me is this once obscure geek toy OS >>> has come a long way to respectable status. >>> >> I should say something that starts with "unless you've been living under a rock >> you'd want know that" and ends with Linux has been mainstream for years. It >> runs our global infrastructure, and there was a youtube video of a TEDx talk >> on that (given by Linus' boss in Portland some years ago). >> >> >>> Given the accuse first ask questions later nature of our modern >>> political system, we Linux fans and the TCLUG list might already be >>> under suspicion. Franz Kafka and James Bond couldn't match the current >>> craziness. >>> >> Two things: >> >> (a) The "accuse first" is mostly a self-serving _economic_model_ in my humble >> opinion, far from an efficient way of doing things (in a sense that an >> economist would put it). It creates jobs to have a mess of things, and if >> Y2K was not a prime example of this, the book "Perpetual War for Perpetual >> Peace" puts it well for a different aspect of our world. The point is made >> here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_war >> >> (b) Wasn't it said that NSA has a 3-day live buffer of the internet traffic? >> Storing text, like emails, is really cheap in comparison. This crap we talk >> about here will live forevah! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >> tclug-list at mn-linux.org >> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sat Mar 18 11:28:28 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:28:28 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170318162828.GA12211@nobelware.com> Ha! Never take my advise Rick! Luck will quickly catch up to you! POSIX threads are the greatest for pieces of the code having to act as independent agents; great for the kinds of applications you were targeting. OpenMP is what makes numerical, repetitive tasks easily programmable in parallel, and that is what is used in numerical work and some real-time systems that require parallelization for audio/video, etc. You need to send us the GPS coordinates of your "playground" so we can stalk you via google-maps and see what you are doing. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Sat Mar 18 11:28:46 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:28:46 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <161DC650-B253-460C-A9E5-FB8946269845@cwis.biz> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> <161DC650-B253-460C-A9E5-FB8946269845@cwis.biz> Message-ID: <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> > > For most platforms they run on either a Linux variant or Windows CE. And of that it?s a 70-30 split. > > So go figure. Your ATM is 60-40. > Are you saying that ATMs run mostly Linux? I swear that the ones I have seen be on maintenance mode are OS/2, which was the prevalent OS back in the 90s for those things. Wells Fargo ATMs are new NCR machines, so I would guess they could be based on Linux. I would not blame any company for wanting to go that route. From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz Sat Mar 18 15:04:19 2017 From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:04:19 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> <161DC650-B253-460C-A9E5-FB8946269845@cwis.biz> <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> Message-ID: New encryption requirements since 2004 required newer OSes. Rough guesstimates on the numbers here but ? 75% of those made between between 2004 and 2013 are Windows XP or 7. >50% made since 2013 are some of of *nix version. About a third, or so, are Windows CE of some sort. I cannot confirm nor refute your thoughts on Wells Fargo due to my employer-related confidentiality agreement with Wells Fargo. > On Mar 18, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Iznogoud wrote: > >> >> For most platforms they run on either a Linux variant or Windows CE. And of that it?s a 70-30 split. >> >> So go figure. Your ATM is 60-40. >> > > Are you saying that ATMs run mostly Linux? I swear that the ones I have seen > be on maintenance mode are OS/2, which was the prevalent OS back in the 90s > for those things. Wells Fargo ATMs are new NCR machines, so I would guess they > could be based on Linux. I would not blame any company for wanting to go that > route. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list From carl.soderstrom at real-time.com Mon Mar 20 08:33:10 2017 From: carl.soderstrom at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:33:10 -0400 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> <161DC650-B253-460C-A9E5-FB8946269845@cwis.biz> <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170320133310.GN55690@real-time.com> On 03/18 04:28 , Iznogoud wrote: > Are you saying that ATMs run mostly Linux? I swear that the ones I have seen > be on maintenance mode are OS/2, which was the prevalent OS back in the 90s > for those things. Wells Fargo ATMs are new NCR machines, so I would guess they > could be based on Linux. I would not blame any company for wanting to go that > route. I have a relative in the ATM business, and I can confirm that his all run some sort of embedded Windows variant. I didn't have a chance to really pull the OS apart in order to see exactly what version it was - I was busy diagnosing a DHCP problem which turned out to be a bad router/DHCP server (tho the OS's DHCP retry logic was pretty poor and contributed to the problem). -- Carl Soderstrom Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From eng at pinenet.com Tue Mar 21 06:50:21 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:50:21 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] pthreads Message-ID: <58D1137D.7080707@pinenet.com> Having read a little and played a little with "pthreads," I really appreciate having TCLUG around to share my joy of learning. (Even if my freepascal code probably isn't so shareable.) First, pthreads aren't really about threads. They are about interrupts. The "lightweight processes" called threads certainly make the forks, executes, and data sharing easy. But the 2 new semaphore types, mutexes, and conditional variables are something I was not aware of. I explained to my poor wife how 2 threads are like 2 arms or 2 legs that share 1 brain. Each arm can have a great plan (algorithm) to grab the chainsaw, but they better cooperate or you might not return from the woods. The cooperative pthread tools are hard for an old guy to design with, so I'm hoping some agile minds simply consider learning something important. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Tue Mar 21 07:21:58 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:21:58 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] pthreads In-Reply-To: <58D1137D.7080707@pinenet.com> References: <58D1137D.7080707@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170321122158.GA14180@nobelware.com> Rick, Threads are not "forked()" they are "spawned" and in this case, in my opinion, language matters because something that is forked is practically gone down the forking path and is on its own. Threads are still children of the main process, and can detach or reattach. If these concepts are not clear, you can get really confused while writing code. The mutexes and semaphores are not a POSIX thread thing, but a general construct. I recently tried, and succeeded, implementing a distributed parallel mutex and semaphore. The concept is generic. Semaphores/mutexes are just one way to synchronize threads. As I had said in the past, I use pipes with a select() system call to monitor the pipes for changes to achieve the same effect more generically. I did this for a sound application, which requires good real-timeness. I can share pseudocode and timing diagram if anyone is interested. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Tue Mar 21 07:22:55 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:22:55 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170321122255.GB14180@nobelware.com> Brian, did you look and find any local groups in meetup, etc? Also, is there any interest here or do we tuck this thread away? From eng at pinenet.com Tue Mar 21 08:32:02 2017 From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:32:02 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] pthreads In-Reply-To: <20170321122158.GA14180@nobelware.com> References: <58D1137D.7080707@pinenet.com> <20170321122158.GA14180@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <58D12B52.5030206@pinenet.com> As always, delighted by your interest. Yes, I'm quite aware of forking a new process and executing new code. And yes they are different and your "terminology matters" is important. I did a fun program to play with modem control lines of the old standard UART, actually very deep control of the UART registers and terminal IO filtering. I used the fork and pipe trick to create a listener waiting and an active process. Played with pseudo terminals. I've played with IPC message queues and semaphores. The crazy and disappointing thing about the RS232 UART was the Linux driver UART fifo setup was broken and not completely fixed until kernel 2.6 or 3.0?. I do know the unnamed semaphore initialization can be configured for between threads or between processes. And are vastly simpler than IPC semaphores. My manpage says to link with pthreads or rt so they are probably in rt, and conforming to posix.1-2001. I guess my interest in the UART programming was using hardware (modem control) interrupts with serial port automation. Everybody thinks RS232 is 2 wires plus ground now. Others were playing with it, but Theo. Tso. the driver maintainer said it was a bad idea, but then it was a bad driver too. Current USB ports are fast, but not an old guy's idea of an industrial controls interface. Iznogoud wrote: > Rick, > Threads are not "forked()" they are "spawned" and in this case, in my opinion, > language matters because something that is forked is practically gone down > the forking path and is on its own. Threads are still children of the main > process, and can detach or reattach. If these concepts are not clear, you can > get really confused while writing code. > > The mutexes and semaphores are not a POSIX thread thing, but a general > construct. I recently tried, and succeeded, implementing a distributed parallel > mutex and semaphore. The concept is generic. > > Semaphores/mutexes are just one way to synchronize threads. As I had said in > the past, I use pipes with a select() system call to monitor the pipes for > changes to achieve the same effect more generically. I did this for a sound > application, which requires good real-timeness. I can share pseudocode and > timing diagram if anyone is interested. > > _______________________________________________ > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tclug-list at mn-linux.org > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list > From iznogoud at nobelware.com Tue Mar 21 10:17:07 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:17:07 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] pthreads In-Reply-To: <58D12B52.5030206@pinenet.com> References: <58D1137D.7080707@pinenet.com> <20170321122158.GA14180@nobelware.com> <58D12B52.5030206@pinenet.com> Message-ID: <20170321151707.GA20446@nobelware.com> > > Yes, I'm quite aware of forking a new process and executing new code. > And yes they are different and your "terminology matters" is important. > I did a fun program to play with modem control lines of the old standard > UART, actually very deep control of the UART registers and terminal IO > filtering. I used the fork and pipe trick to create a listener waiting > and an active process. Played with pseudo terminals. Im' Interested. Create a github account and post code, or post it as you did before on your website. > > I guess my interest in the UART programming was using hardware (modem > control) interrupts with serial port automation. Everybody thinks RS232 > is 2 wires plus ground now. Others were playing with it, but Theo. Tso. > the driver maintainer said it was a bad idea, but then it was a bad > driver too. Current USB ports are fast, but not an old guy's idea of an > industrial controls interface. > Eventually you will not be able to play the old guy on TV Rick, and it will be when you realize that all the hardware components you can buy and will need for your project will be USB/FTDi or something similar and no more RS232. Almost everything we run across is USB, and if there are serial protocols that are used, they most certainly are ported over FTDI chips over USB now. Unless you are using _very_ old controllers with actual RS232 sockets you can ditch serial ports. My 2 euro-cents. Your crazy projects in the Minnesota wilderness sound interesting. Keep us posted. From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Tue Mar 21 13:12:42 2017 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 13:12:42 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ meetings Message-ID: > Brian, did you look and find any local groups in meetup, etc? Also, is there > any interest here or do we tuck this thread away? It looks like there is a group starting https://www.meetup.com/TwinCities-C-Meetup/ I'll see if they are interested in me talking sometime. Thanks. Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Mar 21 19:52:12 2017 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:52:12 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <20170320133310.GN55690@real-time.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> <161DC650-B253-460C-A9E5-FB8946269845@cwis.biz> <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> <20170320133310.GN55690@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I have a relative in the ATM business, and I can confirm that his all run > some sort of embedded Windows variant. Back in Sept I observed an ATM tech re-imaging an ATM using, of all things, a portable DVD drive and Symantec Ghost. The OS image appeared to be a Windows derivative based on the file names. Supposedly most ATMs run Windows PE. Brian From kc0iog at gmail.com Tue Mar 21 19:54:39 2017 From: kc0iog at gmail.com (Brian Wall) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:54:39 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] abusing linux? In-Reply-To: <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> References: <58CD2E70.3030906@pinenet.com> <20170318133655.GB5722@nobelware.com> <58CD3EDC.8050402@pinenet.com> <161DC650-B253-460C-A9E5-FB8946269845@cwis.biz> <20170318162846.GB12211@nobelware.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Iznogoud wrote: > Are you saying that ATMs run mostly Linux? I swear that the ones I have seen > be on maintenance mode are OS/2, Back in the late 90s I observed an ATM that was stuck in an endless reboot. It appeared to be a 386 running OS/2. Brian From iznogoud at nobelware.com Wed Mar 22 07:38:03 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:38:03 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170322123803.GA9076@nobelware.com> > > It looks like there is a group starting > https://www.meetup.com/TwinCities-C-Meetup/ > > I'll see if they are interested in me talking sometime. Thanks. > I just checked my meetup notifications and there was this one group from Mar 15. Depending on what you are doing, check "League of Extrodinary Algorithms" as well, whihc is another meetup group. From woodbrian77 at gmail.com Mon Mar 27 21:44:07 2017 From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:44:07 -0500 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Brian Wood wrote: > It looks like there is a group starting > https://www.meetup.com/TwinCities-C-Meetup/ > > I'll see if they are interested in me talking sometime. Thanks. > > I emailed Dominique, the guy who is organizing the meetings, and he said that maybe in the future they would like to have me talk. So if you would like to hear about the C++ Middleware Writer, please tell him. And I'm also willing to take the show on the road. (I think there are a few who still subscribe to this list after they have moved out of town. And there may be some people who have friends who use C++ in other regions.) I'll pay for my travel expenses to visit at least one place where a (C++/Linux/BSD/etc) user group would like to have me talk about what I've been working on. I'm willing to travel overseas if that's where the interest is. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust. http://webEbenezer.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iznogoud at nobelware.com Tue Mar 28 10:20:21 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 15:20:21 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] C++ meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170328152021.GA13715@nobelware.com> > > > I emailed Dominique, the guy who is organizing the meetings, and > he said that maybe in the future they would like to have me talk. So > if you would like to hear about the C++ Middleware Writer, please > tell him. > Keep us posted as to when you will be on their schedule. Also, it would be nice if you could stimulate interest by posting a link or two with what this is about. If this is going to be a professional venture for you, you want to actively go out and seek customers, and customers may be in placed that are unlikely. But it is of paramount importance to make the _ideas+_ accessible. What I have in mind is management and middle-managemnt of companies, the people who call the shots and tend to be technically detached. They, however, can provide their employees with pointers on where to look for specific solutions. If management is briefed well and engaged with developers, they are likely to go out and seek solutions like what you are providing. So, in short, you will need to advertize to those people by making the capabilities of your product aware. A Github with examples always helps the geekiest among us. I am all about learning what your work is all about. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Mar 31 08:34:41 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 13:34:41 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] VR meetings Message-ID: <20170331133441.GA23185@nobelware.com> I wanted to bring up to the attention of this group that there is quite a bit of Virtual Reality (VR) and Augmented Reality (AR) activity in town. There is a group that meets pretty regularly, and it is always "hands on" and very very informative. This coming week, at DevJam in S.Mpls, there is a limited capacity hands-on event, and I am going. I am sorry I do not have a link, but look on DevJam's website. One last thing. There is a lot of action on platforms other than Linux and Unix variants. But it is up to us, who work on Unix-like OSs, to keep pushing with participation and individual efforts to accelerate the VR's coming to our OS of choice. And related to that, if anyone has a favourite SDK for the off-the-shelf equipment that is being sold (there is plenty being sold), please bring it to my attention. From iznogoud at nobelware.com Fri Mar 31 08:59:52 2017 From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 13:59:52 +0000 Subject: [tclug-list] VR meetings In-Reply-To: <20170331133441.GA23185@nobelware.com> References: <20170331133441.GA23185@nobelware.com> Message-ID: <20170331135952.GA24253@nobelware.com> One more little plug. I was informed of the existence of this site: http://www.beta.mn I figured I would push it to this list, as I see there are some business-minded individuals here. Apologies for the "business development" emails with lack of technical content from my end, but I feel we need a little bit of this in the geekery, and all this stuff is local. Go MN!