From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Sat Jun  2 14:42:30 2018
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 14:42:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] very delayed tclug-list post acknowledgement
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.21.1806021438200.7290@taxahome2>

When I posted my message:

Date: Tue, 1 May 2018 09:53:01
To: TCLUG List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
Subject: Ubuntu 18.04 extra menu button

When the post was acknowledged:

Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 16:28:42
From: tclug-list-bounces at mn-linux.org

I also received some old messsages at around that time.  I think the list 
was dead from April 15 to May 6.

Anyway, I'm glad it's back.  Now that I know it is working, I'll try to 
make more use of it.

Mike

From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Sun Jun  3 14:47:50 2018
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 14:47:50 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions
Message-ID: <CAPpdf59SHn36cHAc6Bhttu=yKZDzDt6d4Jx3jAekcVoJs5zb1w@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings

I am quite new at running a server so hopefully the question isn't too
out there.

My server has been operational for about a year and I am working on a
number of different projects on it. Twice now (this last friday and 5
weeks early I came into the office to find that the server has somehow
been taken down and  has rebooted itself (process setup in the bios)
but as it doesn't quite complete the boot process, I have to hit a key
to tell it to continue and then finally to log in to read Debian
(stable).

So I am trying to determine what may have caused the system to do a
reboot, whilst I have my suspicions I want to figure out exactly what
is happening to cause this kind of behavior. AIUI servers should be
able to run happily for years without issues (barring hardware
problems) so I want that kind of reliability. Where in /var/log will I
be finding the most clues as to the events that lead up to this
'reboot'?

Thanks in advance!!

Dee

From rhayman at pureice.com  Sun Jun  3 18:58:12 2018
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2018 18:58:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf59SHn36cHAc6Bhttu=yKZDzDt6d4Jx3jAekcVoJs5zb1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf59SHn36cHAc6Bhttu=yKZDzDt6d4Jx3jAekcVoJs5zb1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1528070292.4694.41.camel@pureice.com>

Start with /var/log/syslog and /var/log/dmesg current and previous
versions, depending on which has the date/time range you're looking
for.
If you automatically download and install [any/all] updates, then there
are other /var/log/ files you'll need to correlate.
It wouldn't hurt to also look at /var/log/ufw.logs to see if anything
reported by your firewall would correlate to the date/time of the
issue.
You may not find anything that is actionable in those logs to identify
the culprit, but you might. Do you have any external telemetry logging
that you could also correlate?
If it's a power supply failing or some component overheating, you are
unlikely to be able to find that in any standard logfile.
Good luck with your forensics.
On Sun, 2018-06-03 at 14:47 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> I am quite new at running a server so hopefully the question isn't
> too
> out there.
> 
> My server has been operational for about a year and I am working on a
> number of different projects on it. Twice now (this last friday and 5
> weeks early I came into the office to find that the server has
> somehow
> been taken down and??has rebooted itself (process setup in the bios)
> but as it doesn't quite complete the boot process, I have to hit a
> key
> to tell it to continue and then finally to log in to read Debian
> (stable).
> 
> So I am trying to determine what may have caused the system to do a
> reboot, whilst I have my suspicions I want to figure out exactly what
> is happening to cause this kind of behavior. AIUI servers should be
> able to run happily for years without issues (barring hardware
> problems) so I want that kind of reliability. Where in /var/log will
> I
> be finding the most clues as to the events that lead up to this
> 'reboot'?
> 
> Thanks in advance!!
> 
> Dee
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180603/a5d01eb9/attachment.html>

From elhaddi at enduradata.com  Sun Jun  3 20:16:34 2018
From: elhaddi at enduradata.com (A. El Haddi)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2018 20:16:34 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions
In-Reply-To: <1528070292.4694.41.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1528076838.1877.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>


Dee,
You may also want to install audit log.
ausearch, aureport,trace and other au.*? may give you additional info.



? --A. A. El Haddi

-------- Original message --------From: r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> Date: 6/3/18  6:58 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions 
Start with /var/log/syslog and /var/log/dmesg current and previous versions, depending on which has the date/time range you're looking for.
If you automatically download and install [any/all] updates, then there are other /var/log/ files you'll need to correlate.
It wouldn't hurt to also look at /var/log/ufw.logs to see if anything reported by your firewall would correlate to the date/time of the issue.
You may not find anything that is actionable in those logs to identify the culprit, but you might. Do you have any external telemetry logging that you could also correlate?
If it's a power supply failing or some component overheating, you are unlikely to be able to find that in any standard logfile.
Good luck with your forensics.
On Sun, 2018-06-03 at 14:47 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:Greetings

I am quite new at running a server so hopefully the question isn't too
out there.

My server has been operational for about a year and I am working on a
number of different projects on it. Twice now (this last friday and 5
weeks early I came into the office to find that the server has somehow
been taken down and  has rebooted itself (process setup in the bios)
but as it doesn't quite complete the boot process, I have to hit a key
to tell it to continue and then finally to log in to read Debian
(stable).

So I am trying to determine what may have caused the system to do a
reboot, whilst I have my suspicions I want to figure out exactly what
is happening to cause this kind of behavior. AIUI servers should be
able to run happily for years without issues (barring hardware
problems) so I want that kind of reliability. Where in /var/log will I
be finding the most clues as to the events that lead up to this
'reboot'?

Thanks in advance!!

Dee
_______________________________________________
TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
tclug-list at mn-linux.org
http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180603/32178eb2/attachment.html>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Jun  4 17:55:28 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 22:55:28 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions
In-Reply-To: <1528070292.4694.41.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CAPpdf59SHn36cHAc6Bhttu=yKZDzDt6d4Jx3jAekcVoJs5zb1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1528070292.4694.41.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20180604225528.GA10143@nobelware.com>

> If it's a power supply failing or some component overheating, you are
> unlikely to be able to find that in any standard logfile.
> Good luck with your forensics.

Randy nailed it. This is most likely what is going on, especially if it just
started, and after no significant configuration change or software upgrade.

We have servers that drop out of the compute cluster and come back up. We do
not know why...

I will take this opportunity to say that if you are running a server, you want:

1. a UPS that is monitored by the system itself
2. a solid and robust backup scheme
3. some level of driver RAID
4. some external notification that the server is having issues
5. (I recommend) no automatic reboot on failure


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Tue Jun  5 16:25:29 2018
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 16:25:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions
In-Reply-To: <20180604225528.GA10143@nobelware.com>
References: <CAPpdf59SHn36cHAc6Bhttu=yKZDzDt6d4Jx3jAekcVoJs5zb1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1528070292.4694.41.camel@pureice.com> <20180604225528.GA10143@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5_yePaVCd=gvXpT2cc7bV7f3pop5Z4KwWX5U+CO=1TO+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>> If it's a power supply failing or some component overheating, you are
>> unlikely to be able to find that in any standard logfile.
>> Good luck with your forensics.
>
> Randy nailed it. This is most likely what is going on, especially if it just
> started, and after no significant configuration change or software upgrade.
>
> We have servers that drop out of the compute cluster and come back up. We do
> not know why...
>
> I will take this opportunity to say that if you are running a server, you want:
>
> 1. a UPS that is monitored by the system itself
> 2. a solid and robust backup scheme
> 3. some level of driver RAID
> 4. some external notification that the server is having issues
> 5. (I recommend) no automatic reboot on failure
>

Greetings

The issue is, imo anyway, misbehaving software.
Have a UPS and working on connecting the much larger one that I also have.
What are you recommending for backup? I have an early model blu-ray writer
and even 25GB of storage doesn't go very far!
Drives are on Raid-10.
External notification would be nice but I don't want even more 'noises
in the night'
so that won't likely be happening.
May just reset this some time but I don't reboot the server often so it may have
to wait for a bit.

Thanks for the ideas all.

Dee

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Jun  7 20:28:36 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 20:28:36 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing things
	afterwards)
Message-ID: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>

I'm trying to write a script that will automatically take my cards added to a card reader and mount them. I don't care where at the moment, but simply mount them.
I am running Ubuntu 16.04 LTS Server but I could use most any Linux derivative if I could make it work.
For testing purposes I am doing this in VMWare Fusion on my MacBook Pro (Fusion 10, macOS High Sierra) using a Lexar USB 3 reader on passthrough. And the reader works in Ubuntu without issue.

Here's my script:
> KERNEL!="sd[a-z][0-9]", GOTO="media_by_label_auto_mount_end"
> ACTION=="add", PROGRAM!="/sbin/blkid %N", GOTO="media_by_label_auto_mount_end"
> PROGRAM=="/sbin/blkid -o value -s LABEL %N", ENV{dir_name}="%c"
> PROGRAM=="/usr/bin/basename '%E{dir_name}'", ENV{dir_name}="%c"
> ENV{dir_name}=="", ENV{dir_name}="usbhd-%k"
> ACTION=="add|change", TEST=="%N", RUN+="/usr/bin/udisksctl mount -b %N", RUN+="/usr/local/test.sh drive_1 %N"
> LABEL="media_by_label_auto_mount_end"


It is recognizing the content fine and it's processing but I get this in the syslog:
> Jun 7 00:30:41 d3photo_test_development systemd-udevd[2198]: Process '/usr/bin/udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdb1' failed with exit code 1.


I'm completely lost. I can mount the drive just fine if I run the command that commented as failed in syslog.

Any ideas, oh great TCLUG?

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Jun  8 10:43:55 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 15:43:55 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5_yePaVCd=gvXpT2cc7bV7f3pop5Z4KwWX5U+CO=1TO+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf59SHn36cHAc6Bhttu=yKZDzDt6d4Jx3jAekcVoJs5zb1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1528070292.4694.41.camel@pureice.com> <20180604225528.GA10143@nobelware.com>
 <CAPpdf5_yePaVCd=gvXpT2cc7bV7f3pop5Z4KwWX5U+CO=1TO+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20180608154355.GA14900@nobelware.com>

> 
> The issue is, imo anyway, misbehaving software.
> Have a UPS and working on connecting the much larger one that I also have.
> What are you recommending for backup? I have an early model blu-ray writer
> and even 25GB of storage doesn't go very far!
> Drives are on Raid-10.
> External notification would be nice but I don't want even more 'noises
> in the night'
> so that won't likely be happening.
> May just reset this some time but I don't reboot the server often so it may have
> to wait for a bit.
>

You should be able to catch misbehaving software with syslog, messages and
dmesg.

I use "nut" to monitor UPSs and it has pretty good support for most things that
come out in the market.

I am an advocate of both passive and active backups. Active backups can be
easy for small-time servers, like your own. You an even attach a drive to it,
use an encrypted container on it (or not), and mount it to do backups. But the
way most serious people od it is with "snapshots". There must be tools that
you can find to do it at zero cost.


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Jun  8 10:53:06 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 15:53:06 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
	things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>

> 
> 
> It is recognizing the content fine and it's processing but I get this in the syslog:
> > Jun 7 00:30:41 d3photo_test_development systemd-udevd[2198]: Process '/usr/bin/udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdb1' failed with exit code 1.
> 
> 
> I'm completely lost. I can mount the drive just fine if I run the command that commented as failed in syslog.
>

Most likely a permissions issue. I just read after a quick search that the
program udisksctl interacts with a specific daemon process. You either have a
general permissions issue, or that daemon process is not there (unlikely given
that everything else works form your command-line).

(Allowing automounting of USB drives is just a serious security risk, especially
if you do not disallow execution of code from them; the default is typically to
disallow.  Manual mounting of drives with privileged software, like dolphin,
is a little better in my opinion.)


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Fri Jun  8 15:14:40 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 15:14:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>



> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:53 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
> Most likely a permissions issue. I just read after a quick search that the
> program udisksctl interacts with a specific daemon process. You either have a
> general permissions issue, or that daemon process is not there (unlikely given
> that everything else works form your command-line).
> 
> (Allowing automounting of USB drives is just a serious security risk, especially
> if you do not disallow execution of code from them; the default is typically to
> disallow.  Manual mounting of drives with privileged software, like dolphin,
> is a little better in my opinion.)

This is a server that will be at events that is designed to ingest SD and CF cards from cameras and process the images. I?m not concerned about privileged software or execution of code, I just want the images and I want it to be done in an automatic manner - Half of my operation at events is spent processing and handling memory cards. I?d like to avoid that.

Your concern is noted but not applicable. This truly is no different than mounting a drive automatically on a desktop. 

I?ll look at permissions but I don?t know quite where that would be at.
?
Ryan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180608/55fd5fdc/attachment.html>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Sat Jun  9 09:41:38 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 14:41:38 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
	things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>

> 
> Your concern is noted but not applicable. This truly is no different than mounting a drive automatically on a desktop. 
>
 
Yup. I figured you know what you are doing, but I thought I'd bring it up.
Sounds like a sandboxed machine with a specific purpose.


> I?ll look at permissions but I don?t know quite where that would be at.

This is a tough one. "mount" can only be executed by privileged accounts, in
general. Can you try the following to see if the error is coming from mount
and not from the tools? Instead of mount execute something like:
echo "DID IT" > /tmp/attempt_text
Completion should be successful; if it is not, you have a starting point.
Then, you will see the owner of the newly created file, which, if it does
exist, immediately tells you that mount returns an error, most likely related
to permissions.

I hope this helps.


From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Mon Jun 11 16:06:40 2018
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:06:40 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Server shutdown questions
In-Reply-To: <20180608154355.GA14900@nobelware.com>
References: <CAPpdf59SHn36cHAc6Bhttu=yKZDzDt6d4Jx3jAekcVoJs5zb1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1528070292.4694.41.camel@pureice.com> <20180604225528.GA10143@nobelware.com>
 <CAPpdf5_yePaVCd=gvXpT2cc7bV7f3pop5Z4KwWX5U+CO=1TO+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20180608154355.GA14900@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAPpdf59vRKv2iVoz3O5YwFsu6LRxyVw_6Nx5up=t1ALuNoJKMA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>
>> The issue is, imo anyway, misbehaving software.
>> Have a UPS and working on connecting the much larger one that I also have.
>> What are you recommending for backup? I have an early model blu-ray writer
>> and even 25GB of storage doesn't go very far!
>> Drives are on Raid-10.
>> External notification would be nice but I don't want even more 'noises
>> in the night'
>> so that won't likely be happening.
>> May just reset this some time but I don't reboot the server often so it may have
>> to wait for a bit.
>>
>
> You should be able to catch misbehaving software with syslog, messages and
> dmesg.
>
> I use "nut" to monitor UPSs and it has pretty good support for most things that
> come out in the market.

Not a tool I've used yet
>
> I am an advocate of both passive and active backups. Active backups can be
> easy for small-time servers, like your own. You an even attach a drive to it,
> use an encrypted container on it (or not), and mount it to do backups. But the
> way most serious people od it is with "snapshots". There must be tools that
> you can find to do it at zero cost.

Haven't set it up yet but have been looking into backuppc - - - seems
to do a good
job of backup as far as I understand it.
Very good point though!!

Regards

Dee

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Jun 11 17:22:29 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:22:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>

The thing that?s confused the ~!@# out of me was that it worked a couple of times and then stopped working, even in the sporadic manner. 

I?ll be looking at it again tonight. 

> On Jun 9, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Your concern is noted but not applicable. This truly is no different than mounting a drive automatically on a desktop. 
>> 
> 
> Yup. I figured you know what you are doing, but I thought I'd bring it up.
> Sounds like a sandboxed machine with a specific purpose.
> 
> 
>> I?ll look at permissions but I don?t know quite where that would be at.
> 
> This is a tough one. "mount" can only be executed by privileged accounts, in
> general. Can you try the following to see if the error is coming from mount
> and not from the tools? Instead of mount execute something like:
> echo "DID IT" > /tmp/attempt_text
> Completion should be successful; if it is not, you have a starting point.
> Then, you will see the owner of the newly created file, which, if it does
> exist, immediately tells you that mount returns an error, most likely related
> to permissions.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Jun 11 23:12:38 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 23:12:38 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>

I thought about the privileged status and opted to try to use /usr/sbin/pmount tonight and it?s doing the same thing.

Back to square one.


> On Jun 11, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Ryan Coleman <RYAN.COLEMAN at CWIS.BIZ> wrote:
> 
> The thing that?s confused the ~!@# out of me was that it worked a couple of times and then stopped working, even in the sporadic manner. 
> 
> I?ll be looking at it again tonight. 
> 
>> On Jun 9, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Your concern is noted but not applicable. This truly is no different than mounting a drive automatically on a desktop. 
>>> 
>> 
>> Yup. I figured you know what you are doing, but I thought I'd bring it up.
>> Sounds like a sandboxed machine with a specific purpose.
>> 
>> 
>>> I?ll look at permissions but I don?t know quite where that would be at.
>> 
>> This is a tough one. "mount" can only be executed by privileged accounts, in
>> general. Can you try the following to see if the error is coming from mount
>> and not from the tools? Instead of mount execute something like:
>> echo "DID IT" > /tmp/attempt_text
>> Completion should be successful; if it is not, you have a starting point.
>> Then, you will see the owner of the newly created file, which, if it does
>> exist, immediately tells you that mount returns an error, most likely related
>> to permissions.
>> 
>> I hope this helps.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Jun 12 17:35:39 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 17:35:39 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>

This works: https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd <https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd>

Mostly. It doesn?t unmount on removal but that?s a small concern.

> On Jun 11, 2018, at 11:12 PM, Ryan Coleman <RYAN.COLEMAN at CWIS.BIZ> wrote:
> 
> I thought about the privileged status and opted to try to use /usr/sbin/pmount tonight and it?s doing the same thing.
> 
> Back to square one.
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Ryan Coleman <RYAN.COLEMAN at CWIS.BIZ> wrote:
>> 
>> The thing that?s confused the ~!@# out of me was that it worked a couple of times and then stopped working, even in the sporadic manner. 
>> 
>> I?ll be looking at it again tonight. 
>> 
>>> On Jun 9, 2018, at 9:41 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Your concern is noted but not applicable. This truly is no different than mounting a drive automatically on a desktop. 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yup. I figured you know what you are doing, but I thought I'd bring it up.
>>> Sounds like a sandboxed machine with a specific purpose.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I?ll look at permissions but I don?t know quite where that would be at.
>>> 
>>> This is a tough one. "mount" can only be executed by privileged accounts, in
>>> general. Can you try the following to see if the error is coming from mount
>>> and not from the tools? Instead of mount execute something like:
>>> echo "DID IT" > /tmp/attempt_text
>>> Completion should be successful; if it is not, you have a starting point.
>>> Then, you will see the owner of the newly created file, which, if it does
>>> exist, immediately tells you that mount returns an error, most likely related
>>> to permissions.
>>> 
>>> I hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180612/1a59c7fa/attachment.html>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Jun 13 11:54:15 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 16:54:15 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
	things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>

> 
> This works: https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd <https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd>
>

This is great info. I have been dealing with udev programmatically recently
and I have learned a lot.
 
> Mostly. It doesn?t unmount on removal but that?s a small concern.
> 

As I was thinking about this, it occured to me that there is no clear way to
unmount a USB filesystem. And I mean, you cannot just anticipate the USB being
yanked out of the system... And, I saw what you wrote above, and I also read
the solution on the link, and could not help but think that you need a way of
doing a clean unmount.

The problem is that you can corrupt the filesystem on the USB drive/stick,
especially if there have been changes made (like deleting/writing files).
(It appears to be a "small concern" for you.)

So, this brings me to the higher level question on what you are trying to do.
Having people just putting in USB drives and expecting that they get full
functionality is a fallacy. But you can have people put in the USB drive, get
files _from_ it, and then unplug it. In this case you would force read-only
mounting, and I expect all would be fine. In the case that you want the data
on the USB drive to be able to be altered, you will need to have some way of
allowing the unmounting of the drive. The real problem is making users do it...


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Wed Jun 13 18:42:31 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 18:42:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
 <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>



> On Jun 13, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> This works: https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd <https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd>
>> 
> 
> This is great info. I have been dealing with udev programmatically recently
> and I have learned a lot.

I wish there was more out there on the subject, it?s felt like I?ve been pulling teeth just to get this far.

>> Mostly. It doesn?t unmount on removal but that?s a small concern.
>> 
> 
> As I was thinking about this, it occured to me that there is no clear way to
> unmount a USB filesystem. And I mean, you cannot just anticipate the USB being
> yanked out of the system... And, I saw what you wrote above, and I also read
> the solution on the link, and could not help but think that you need a way of
> doing a clean unmount.

There?s a solution, actually?

CRON that runs every minute? it executes a file, deletes the file, touches the file, changes it permissions.

Then there?s the script that runs on the insert that copies the contents of the card to the computer, in this case just the following file extensions:
JPG, CRW, CR2, NEF

That goes through the copy process, creates all the database hooks and renames the source files and then writes to the aforementioned file from the CRON a series of commands:
mkfs
umount

And that gets executed at the top of the next minute by root.

> The problem is that you can corrupt the filesystem on the USB drive/stick,
> especially if there have been changes made (like deleting/writing files).
> (It appears to be a "small concern" for you.)

Correct. Which is why I?d like to avoid it. And I haven?t done the above stated commands but I do have the .sh content being written every time and I have the .sh that will do the CRON task written, but not the CRON hooks. Working with a limited VMDK on my laptop right now I need to work around the UDEV timeout of 180 seconds before I can move down this path.

But it?s looking promising.


> So, this brings me to the higher level question on what you are trying to do.
> Having people just putting in USB drives and expecting that they get full
> functionality is a fallacy. But you can have people put in the USB drive, get
> files _from_ it, and then unplug it. In this case you would force read-only
> mounting, and I expect all would be fine. In the case that you want the data
> on the USB drive to be able to be altered, you will need to have some way of
> allowing the unmounting of the drive. The real problem is making users do it?

This is a ?headless? photo management server that will have a web presence only. The one thing I haven?t quite worked out (and will be doing in the future only) is how to tell the user that the card is ready to be removed from the drive. It is likely that this will include an arduino or pi device in the computer case that fires a series of relays that turns on and off three-stage LEDs. 

I?ve been working on this project in my head for years and I?m finally moving forward on it. 

?
Ryan


From rsinland at gvtel.com  Wed Jun 13 19:03:26 2018
From: rsinland at gvtel.com (Robert Sinland)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 19:03:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Idea/invention patents (off topic)
Message-ID: <cbaba623-9d0a-8b27-f1fa-6625f1382ac8@gvtel.com>

I work at a long term care facility and was recently asked by a 
supervisor if I could make an interface to our call light system that 
was sound activated.? I in fact did that.? So now I have a "box" of 
electronics that I am perfectly willing to hand over to them to use.? My 
question is this... Should I try to patent this or would this cost more 
money then I could recoup in a narrow market place? This iteration of 
the Box does not involve software or firmware that I altered in any way, 
its just off the shelf electronic modules that I made work together for 
a specific purpose.

In this case it was so a quadriplegic person could activate a call light 
and summon a nurse.

Thanks for any input,

Rob

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180613/b09dac60/attachment.html>

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Wed Jun 13 20:58:31 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:58:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
 <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
 <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <6135CD96-B368-4194-8B2F-BD5014627AA5@cwis.biz>

Any ideas on the timeout issue? Stops at 180 seconds and when checking with

> udevadm info -a -n /dev/sdc


I don?t get receive any feedback that suggests it?s that length (I have a result of 10 and 30 from the card reader/device, but not the card/device itself.




> On Jun 13, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Ryan Coleman <RYAN.COLEMAN at CWIS.BIZ> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> This works: https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd <https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd>
>>> 
>> 
>> This is great info. I have been dealing with udev programmatically recently
>> and I have learned a lot.
> 
> I wish there was more out there on the subject, it?s felt like I?ve been pulling teeth just to get this far.
> 
>>> Mostly. It doesn?t unmount on removal but that?s a small concern.
>>> 
>> 
>> As I was thinking about this, it occured to me that there is no clear way to
>> unmount a USB filesystem. And I mean, you cannot just anticipate the USB being
>> yanked out of the system... And, I saw what you wrote above, and I also read
>> the solution on the link, and could not help but think that you need a way of
>> doing a clean unmount.
> 
> There?s a solution, actually?
> 
> CRON that runs every minute? it executes a file, deletes the file, touches the file, changes it permissions.
> 
> Then there?s the script that runs on the insert that copies the contents of the card to the computer, in this case just the following file extensions:
> JPG, CRW, CR2, NEF
> 
> That goes through the copy process, creates all the database hooks and renames the source files and then writes to the aforementioned file from the CRON a series of commands:
> mkfs
> umount
> 
> And that gets executed at the top of the next minute by root.
> 
>> The problem is that you can corrupt the filesystem on the USB drive/stick,
>> especially if there have been changes made (like deleting/writing files).
>> (It appears to be a "small concern" for you.)
> 
> Correct. Which is why I?d like to avoid it. And I haven?t done the above stated commands but I do have the .sh content being written every time and I have the .sh that will do the CRON task written, but not the CRON hooks. Working with a limited VMDK on my laptop right now I need to work around the UDEV timeout of 180 seconds before I can move down this path.
> 
> But it?s looking promising.
> 
> 
>> So, this brings me to the higher level question on what you are trying to do.
>> Having people just putting in USB drives and expecting that they get full
>> functionality is a fallacy. But you can have people put in the USB drive, get
>> files _from_ it, and then unplug it. In this case you would force read-only
>> mounting, and I expect all would be fine. In the case that you want the data
>> on the USB drive to be able to be altered, you will need to have some way of
>> allowing the unmounting of the drive. The real problem is making users do it?
> 
> This is a ?headless? photo management server that will have a web presence only. The one thing I haven?t quite worked out (and will be doing in the future only) is how to tell the user that the card is ready to be removed from the drive. It is likely that this will include an arduino or pi device in the computer case that fires a series of relays that turns on and off three-stage LEDs. 
> 
> I?ve been working on this project in my head for years and I?m finally moving forward on it. 
> 
> ?
> Ryan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Wed Jun 13 21:21:12 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:21:12 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <6135CD96-B368-4194-8B2F-BD5014627AA5@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
 <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
 <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
 <6135CD96-B368-4194-8B2F-BD5014627AA5@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <C21751DF-9F74-48DD-A962-0D237E712CE4@cwis.biz>

I found the source, but now to figure out how to overwrite it?

the scsi disk driver has the timeout.

>   looking at parent device '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:10.0/host3/target3:0:0/3:0:0:0':
>     KERNELS=="3:0:0:0"
>     SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi"
>     DRIVERS=="sd"
>     ATTRS{blacklist}==""
>     ATTRS{device_blocked}=="0"
>     ATTRS{device_busy}=="0"
>     ATTRS{dh_state}=="detached"
>     ATTRS{eh_timeout}=="10"
>     ATTRS{evt_capacity_change_reported}=="0"
>     ATTRS{evt_inquiry_change_reported}=="0"
>     ATTRS{evt_lun_change_reported}=="0"
>     ATTRS{evt_media_change}=="0"
>     ATTRS{evt_mode_parameter_change_reported}=="0"
>     ATTRS{evt_soft_threshold_reached}=="0"
>     ATTRS{inquiry}==""
>     ATTRS{iocounterbits}=="32"
>     ATTRS{iodone_cnt}=="0x3716"
>     ATTRS{ioerr_cnt}=="0x3"
>     ATTRS{iorequest_cnt}=="0x3716"
>     ATTRS{model}=="VMware Virtual S"
>     ATTRS{queue_depth}=="32"
>     ATTRS{queue_ramp_up_period}=="120000"
>     ATTRS{queue_type}=="simple"
>     ATTRS{rev}=="1.0 "
>     ATTRS{scsi_level}=="3"
>     ATTRS{state}=="running"
>     ATTRS{timeout}=="180"
>     ATTRS{type}=="0"
>     ATTRS{vendor}=="VMware, ?




> On Jun 13, 2018, at 8:58 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
> 
> Any ideas on the timeout issue? Stops at 180 seconds and when checking with
> 
>> udevadm info -a -n /dev/sdc
> 
> 
> I don?t get receive any feedback that suggests it?s that length (I have a result of 10 and 30 from the card reader/device, but not the card/device itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Ryan Coleman <RYAN.COLEMAN at CWIS.BIZ> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 13, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This works: https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd <https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is great info. I have been dealing with udev programmatically recently
>>> and I have learned a lot.
>> 
>> I wish there was more out there on the subject, it?s felt like I?ve been pulling teeth just to get this far.
>> 
>>>> Mostly. It doesn?t unmount on removal but that?s a small concern.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> As I was thinking about this, it occured to me that there is no clear way to
>>> unmount a USB filesystem. And I mean, you cannot just anticipate the USB being
>>> yanked out of the system... And, I saw what you wrote above, and I also read
>>> the solution on the link, and could not help but think that you need a way of
>>> doing a clean unmount.
>> 
>> There?s a solution, actually?
>> 
>> CRON that runs every minute? it executes a file, deletes the file, touches the file, changes it permissions.
>> 
>> Then there?s the script that runs on the insert that copies the contents of the card to the computer, in this case just the following file extensions:
>> JPG, CRW, CR2, NEF
>> 
>> That goes through the copy process, creates all the database hooks and renames the source files and then writes to the aforementioned file from the CRON a series of commands:
>> mkfs
>> umount
>> 
>> And that gets executed at the top of the next minute by root.
>> 
>>> The problem is that you can corrupt the filesystem on the USB drive/stick,
>>> especially if there have been changes made (like deleting/writing files).
>>> (It appears to be a "small concern" for you.)
>> 
>> Correct. Which is why I?d like to avoid it. And I haven?t done the above stated commands but I do have the .sh content being written every time and I have the .sh that will do the CRON task written, but not the CRON hooks. Working with a limited VMDK on my laptop right now I need to work around the UDEV timeout of 180 seconds before I can move down this path.
>> 
>> But it?s looking promising.
>> 
>> 
>>> So, this brings me to the higher level question on what you are trying to do.
>>> Having people just putting in USB drives and expecting that they get full
>>> functionality is a fallacy. But you can have people put in the USB drive, get
>>> files _from_ it, and then unplug it. In this case you would force read-only
>>> mounting, and I expect all would be fine. In the case that you want the data
>>> on the USB drive to be able to be altered, you will need to have some way of
>>> allowing the unmounting of the drive. The real problem is making users do it?
>> 
>> This is a ?headless? photo management server that will have a web presence only. The one thing I haven?t quite worked out (and will be doing in the future only) is how to tell the user that the card is ready to be removed from the drive. It is likely that this will include an arduino or pi device in the computer case that fires a series of relays that turns on and off three-stage LEDs. 
>> 
>> I?ve been working on this project in my head for years and I?m finally moving forward on it. 
>> 
>> ?
>> Ryan
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180613/7b3a467a/attachment-0001.html>

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Wed Jun 13 21:30:17 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 21:30:17 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <6135CD96-B368-4194-8B2F-BD5014627AA5@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
 <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
 <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
 <6135CD96-B368-4194-8B2F-BD5014627AA5@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <D260F8AA-8AB7-4068-8604-3C6B10A4C690@cwis.biz>

Found it.

> root at d3photo_test_development:/storage# grep -r -i 'timeout' /lib/udev/
> /lib/udev/rules.d/99-vmware-scsi-udev.rules:ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi", ENV{DEVTYPE}=="scsi_device", ATTRS{vendor}=="VMware*" , ATTRS{model}=="Virtual disk*", ATTRS{timeout}=="?*", ATTR{timeout}=?180"
> /lib/udev/rules.d/99-vmware-scsi-udev.rules:ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEMS=="scsi", ENV{DEVTYPE}=="scsi_device", ATTRS{vendor}=="VMware*" , ATTRS{model}=="VMware Virtual S", ATTRStimeout}=="?*", ATTR{timeout}=?180"
> /lib/udev/rules.d/50-firmware.rules:# failed; necessary to avoid long timeouts with CONFIG_FW_LOADER_USER_HELPER=y
> /lib/udev/rules.d/56-lvm.rules:OPTIONS+="event_timeout=180?

I?m making them all 900 seconds to see if that fixes the timeout.



> On Jun 13, 2018, at 8:58 PM, Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz> wrote:
> 
> Any ideas on the timeout issue? Stops at 180 seconds and when checking with
> 
>> udevadm info -a -n /dev/sdc
> 
> 
> I don?t get receive any feedback that suggests it?s that length (I have a result of 10 and 30 from the card reader/device, but not the card/device itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Ryan Coleman <RYAN.COLEMAN at CWIS.BIZ> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 13, 2018, at 11:54 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This works: https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd <https://serverfault.com/questions/766506/automount-usb-drives-with-systemd>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is great info. I have been dealing with udev programmatically recently
>>> and I have learned a lot.
>> 
>> I wish there was more out there on the subject, it?s felt like I?ve been pulling teeth just to get this far.
>> 
>>>> Mostly. It doesn?t unmount on removal but that?s a small concern.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> As I was thinking about this, it occured to me that there is no clear way to
>>> unmount a USB filesystem. And I mean, you cannot just anticipate the USB being
>>> yanked out of the system... And, I saw what you wrote above, and I also read
>>> the solution on the link, and could not help but think that you need a way of
>>> doing a clean unmount.
>> 
>> There?s a solution, actually?
>> 
>> CRON that runs every minute? it executes a file, deletes the file, touches the file, changes it permissions.
>> 
>> Then there?s the script that runs on the insert that copies the contents of the card to the computer, in this case just the following file extensions:
>> JPG, CRW, CR2, NEF
>> 
>> That goes through the copy process, creates all the database hooks and renames the source files and then writes to the aforementioned file from the CRON a series of commands:
>> mkfs
>> umount
>> 
>> And that gets executed at the top of the next minute by root.
>> 
>>> The problem is that you can corrupt the filesystem on the USB drive/stick,
>>> especially if there have been changes made (like deleting/writing files).
>>> (It appears to be a "small concern" for you.)
>> 
>> Correct. Which is why I?d like to avoid it. And I haven?t done the above stated commands but I do have the .sh content being written every time and I have the .sh that will do the CRON task written, but not the CRON hooks. Working with a limited VMDK on my laptop right now I need to work around the UDEV timeout of 180 seconds before I can move down this path.
>> 
>> But it?s looking promising.
>> 
>> 
>>> So, this brings me to the higher level question on what you are trying to do.
>>> Having people just putting in USB drives and expecting that they get full
>>> functionality is a fallacy. But you can have people put in the USB drive, get
>>> files _from_ it, and then unplug it. In this case you would force read-only
>>> mounting, and I expect all would be fine. In the case that you want the data
>>> on the USB drive to be able to be altered, you will need to have some way of
>>> allowing the unmounting of the drive. The real problem is making users do it?
>> 
>> This is a ?headless? photo management server that will have a web presence only. The one thing I haven?t quite worked out (and will be doing in the future only) is how to tell the user that the card is ready to be removed from the drive. It is likely that this will include an arduino or pi device in the computer case that fires a series of relays that turns on and off three-stage LEDs. 
>> 
>> I?ve been working on this project in my head for years and I?m finally moving forward on it. 
>> 
>> ?
>> Ryan
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Jun 14 11:04:05 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 16:04:05 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
	things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
 <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
 <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20180614160405.GA15272@nobelware.com>

> 
> There?s a solution, actually?
> 
> CRON that runs every minute? it executes a file, deletes the file, touches the file, changes it permissions.
>

Absolutely no guarantees on data integrity... Modifying the filesystem can take
an arbitrary amount of time, at which time the user can yank out the USB, which
is something they can do at anytime, etc, etc.

Maybe we need to think "out of the box" here, as I was discussing with a friend
about this offline. Do it like ATMs, where they take your card, do what there
is to do, and return it in the end. Have the USB behind a "hatch" that opens
when the drive is to be attached. Then close it... You get the idea. You open
the hatch to let the user unplug it after you have successfully unmounted. For
safety, you can introduce a forced ejection by the user, should they think that
the process is taking too long, but after they have been warned of the potential
issues.


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Thu Jun 14 11:21:13 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 16:21:13 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Idea/invention patents (off topic)
In-Reply-To: <cbaba623-9d0a-8b27-f1fa-6625f1382ac8@gvtel.com>
References: <cbaba623-9d0a-8b27-f1fa-6625f1382ac8@gvtel.com>
Message-ID: <20180614162113.GB15272@nobelware.com>

Great stuff! Glad to see this kind of stuff created. And a noble cause.

You may want to talk to a patent attorney (I know this is not helping much).
Perhaps you can give a call to the Office of Technology Commercialization at
the Univ. of Minnesota and ask questions. As a Land-grant institution, they
are supposed to be helping the public.

Alternatively, to see if there is any money to be made there, you can talk to
a "venture capital" firm, ask them to partner with you under an NDA, and see
if they are interested in doing the market research on your behalf.

Patent application fees can exceed $5k, if I recall correctly. It will also
take some time, and there are no guarantees that you will receive a patent.

A more interesting and daring path would be to approach SmartThings and see
if they are interested. You may have to swap some pieces out for using their
technology, or they can straight-up buy it. Just a thought.


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Jun 14 11:38:06 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:38:06 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <20180614160405.GA15272@nobelware.com>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
 <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
 <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
 <20180614160405.GA15272@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <5ECADBBF-64F5-498E-9948-F28FF738624C@cwis.biz>



> On Jun 14, 2018, at 11:04 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
> Absolutely no guarantees on data integrity... Modifying the filesystem can take
> an arbitrary amount of time, at which time the user can yank out the USB, which
> is something they can do at anytime, etc, etc.

If my photographer fails to follow the instructions? they don?t get paid. it?s in the contract. :)

> 
> Maybe we need to think "out of the box" here, as I was discussing with a friend
> about this offline. Do it like ATMs, where they take your card, do what there
> is to do, and return it in the end. Have the USB behind a "hatch" that opens
> when the drive is to be attached. Then close it... You get the idea. You open
> the hatch to let the user unplug it after you have successfully unmounted. For
> safety, you can introduce a forced ejection by the user, should they think that
> the process is taking too long, but after they have been warned of the potential
> issues.

Again, I?m not concerned about that - it?s designed to insert the cards and walk away.  :)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180614/1ad56244/attachment-0001.html>

From kermit4 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 14 12:00:31 2018
From: kermit4 at gmail.com (Christopher Pearson)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:00:31 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
Message-ID: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>

Are there any employers in town, or offering remote, where the
majority of some group it's hiring for run Linux natively (not in a VM
under Mac/Win?)

Merely filtering out employers on job boards and Linked-in has proven
to be harder
than expected.  Mac and Win have much more market share in engineering
than expected despite their servers and products usually running Linux.

From tclug at freakzilla.com  Thu Jun 14 12:06:33 2018
From: tclug at freakzilla.com (Clug)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:06:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
In-Reply-To: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1806141203440.8343@rooster>

Honestly, any UNIX shop nowadays is very likely to be primarily Linux, if 
not exclusively so.

With that said, what you run on your servers and what your DESKTOPS run 
are different question. If your corporate infrastructure is built around 
Outlook/Office, you're very likely going to be running Windows on your 
desktop. Different companies will have different levels of allowing you to 
have Linux machines in addition or instead of that.

And you're not going to get anyone's desktop infrastructure from a job 
listing.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2018, Christopher Pearson wrote:

> Are there any employers in town, or offering remote, where the
> majority of some group it's hiring for run Linux natively (not in a VM
> under Mac/Win?)
>
> Merely filtering out employers on job boards and Linked-in has proven
> to be harder
> than expected.  Mac and Win have much more market share in engineering
> than expected despite their servers and products usually running Linux.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From lkateley at kateley.com  Thu Jun 14 12:37:24 2018
From: lkateley at kateley.com (Linda Kateley)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 12:37:24 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
In-Reply-To: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ba6b8a6d-4bb6-302a-d601-4c4adc990d0e@kateley.com>

I can't name a single company not running servers virtualized. Most i 
know also are moving to desktops virtualized too.

Why are you concerned about native? I guess most of the like hadoop HPC 
kinds of workloads still run native.



On 6/14/18 12:00 PM, Christopher Pearson wrote:
> Are there any employers in town, or offering remote, where the
> majority of some group it's hiring for run Linux natively (not in a VM
> under Mac/Win?)
>
> Merely filtering out employers on job boards and Linked-in has proven
> to be harder
> than expected.  Mac and Win have much more market share in engineering
> than expected despite their servers and products usually running Linux.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From rhayman at pureice.com  Thu Jun 14 15:56:26 2018
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 15:56:26 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
In-Reply-To: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1529009786.4648.9.camel@pureice.com>

Nearly 100% of places with a supercomputer will be running Linux on it
natively.
Visit?https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/?to identify
places with the 500 highest performance supercomputers as a start.?
The
top 500 supercomputers all run Linux.
Cray has an office in Bloomington...

On Thu, 2018-06-14 at 12:00 -0500, Christopher Pearson wrote:
> Are there any employers in town, or offering remote, where the
> majority of some group it's hiring for run Linux natively (not in a
> VM
> under Mac/Win?)
> 
> Merely filtering out employers on job boards and Linked-in has proven
> to be harder
> than expected.??Mac and Win have much more market share in
> engineering
> than expected despite their servers and products usually running
> Linux.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180614/78858fc1/attachment.html>

From jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com  Thu Jun 14 18:18:29 2018
From: jeremy.mountainjohnson at gmail.com (Jeremy MountainJohnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 18:18:29 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
In-Reply-To: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEdYO064448a+yUU9z8vNo_jyard=Fkoztv6h3wuK7OLMOZrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Are you wanting to run Linux on a physical workstation for work? Or,
are you looking for physical, Linux devices only all around (servers,
workstations)? I'm curious to hear more about your native Linux non-VM
motives.

On the VM side, most hypervisors and thin clients run some form of
Linux under the hood.

--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
--
Jeremy MountainJohnson
Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com


On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 12:01 PM Christopher Pearson <kermit4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are there any employers in town, or offering remote, where the
> majority of some group it's hiring for run Linux natively (not in a VM
> under Mac/Win?)
>
> Merely filtering out employers on job boards and Linked-in has proven
> to be harder
> than expected.  Mac and Win have much more market share in engineering
> than expected despite their servers and products usually running Linux.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From rhayman at pureice.com  Thu Jun 14 20:00:51 2018
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 20:00:51 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
In-Reply-To: <CACEdYO064448a+yUU9z8vNo_jyard=Fkoztv6h3wuK7OLMOZrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEdYO064448a+yUU9z8vNo_jyard=Fkoztv6h3wuK7OLMOZrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1529024451.2927.9.camel@pureice.com>

Yes, what's the real root question or issue here?
If you're part of the "gig economy" like I was for 20 years, I've
always run some distro of Linux on my personal (work) laptop and that
was fine with the majority of my clients. Some clients required their
own image (Windows or Mac) on their own laptops for accessing company
data, but none have ever prevented me from doing work on my personal
Linux laptop. Most clients would, but some clients wouldn't allow me to
extract company data to my personal laptop, but in all but one case, I
could, did, and was able to deliver better outcomes because of it. The
one case where I couldn't extract company data to my personal laptop
didn't care about outcomes or costs or efficiencies, so they actually
paid me (lots) more to be less productive.
YMMV
On Thu, 2018-06-14 at 18:18 -0500, Jeremy MountainJohnson wrote:
> Are you wanting to run Linux on a physical workstation for work? Or,
> are you looking for physical, Linux devices only all around (servers,
> workstations)? I'm curious to hear more about your native Linux non-
> VM
> motives.
> 
> On the VM side, most hypervisors and thin clients run some form of
> Linux under the hood.
> 
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> --
> Jeremy MountainJohnson
> Jeremy.MountainJohnson at gmail.com
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 12:01 PM Christopher Pearson 
> om> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Are there any employers in town, or offering remote, where the
> > majority of some group it's hiring for run Linux natively (not in a
> > VM
> > under Mac/Win?)
> > 
> > Merely filtering out employers on job boards and Linked-in has
> > proven
> > to be harder
> > than expected.??Mac and Win have much more market share in
> > engineering
> > than expected despite their servers and products usually running
> > Linux.
> > _______________________________________________
> > TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> > tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> > http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180614/b7659c9c/attachment-0001.html>

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Jun 14 21:12:52 2018
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 21:12:52 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Automounting CF/SD cards on insert (and doing
 things afterwards)
In-Reply-To: <5ECADBBF-64F5-498E-9948-F28FF738624C@cwis.biz>
References: <5AB121CB-ACE0-4313-ABF5-72BA355BB584@cwis.biz>
 <20180608155306.GB14900@nobelware.com>
 <C710B68C-F966-40BA-88EC-199FDB9F9A84@cwis.biz>
 <20180609144137.GA31579@nobelware.com>
 <1924F043-AD9A-4B20-8C2B-C16235CFD6C4@cwis.biz>
 <D21F24F1-2D08-41D3-B170-490EE5C4C4C9@cwis.biz>
 <2571BBD4-3327-4D40-937F-F6BE8E27AE0C@cwis.biz>
 <20180613165415.GA30089@nobelware.com>
 <321C1280-77FC-450A-94B2-A107D503772D@cwis.biz>
 <20180614160405.GA15272@nobelware.com>
 <5ECADBBF-64F5-498E-9948-F28FF738624C@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <4BF08E49-DED6-40A2-9E67-24AEABA6D661@cwis.biz>

Changing gears a little bit I found a workaround? using my mounting script I added the commands that handle the file copying. That eliminates the need for a CRON task to handle disk reformatting and ejection.

Not ideal but it will work for now.


> On Jun 14, 2018, at 11:38 AM, Ryan Coleman <RYAN.COLEMAN at CWIS.BIZ> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 14, 2018, at 11:04 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com <mailto:iznogoud at nobelware.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely no guarantees on data integrity... Modifying the filesystem can take
>> an arbitrary amount of time, at which time the user can yank out the USB, which
>> is something they can do at anytime, etc, etc.
> 
> If my photographer fails to follow the instructions? they don?t get paid. it?s in the contract. :)
> 
>> 
>> Maybe we need to think "out of the box" here, as I was discussing with a friend
>> about this offline. Do it like ATMs, where they take your card, do what there
>> is to do, and return it in the end. Have the USB behind a "hatch" that opens
>> when the drive is to be attached. Then close it... You get the idea. You open
>> the hatch to let the user unplug it after you have successfully unmounted. For
>> safety, you can introduce a forced ejection by the user, should they think that
>> the process is taking too long, but after they have been warned of the potential
>> issues.
> 
> Again, I?m not concerned about that - it?s designed to insert the cards and walk away.  :)
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180614/16ffed7d/attachment.html>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Jun 15 10:15:41 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 15:15:41 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
In-Reply-To: <1529024451.2927.9.camel@pureice.com>
References: <CAGtzr3dqSSeZSMNoXyWtvF3jXxXzg2Pcgi8Y7BHPZVo8MWW64A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEdYO064448a+yUU9z8vNo_jyard=Fkoztv6h3wuK7OLMOZrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1529024451.2927.9.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20180615151541.GA32154@nobelware.com>

> 
> Yes, what's the real root question or issue here?

This is the core of this thread, Randy. Christopher should try and be a little
more explicit about what he has in mind.

I know he is well-aware of the Cray facility in Eagan, too.

Also, another interesting point is brought up by the inefficiencies when it
comes to the choices of platform and software, which, seems to me, go with a
company culture more than the technical component of the work. I know you,
Randy, are into agile methodologies for devops, etc, and you are a big advocate
of making changes when needed while keeping your eyes on the prize. In that
regard, I do not think, for all the time I have known you, that working with
one platform or another was ever a problem for you. But you are probably a
special case too.

A couple more slightly relevant points.

1. It is not a fad, but a necessity for companies and entities to be flexible
with their workforce, with this at all levels (platform, software tools, day to
day operations, hours and schedule, etc). Retaining good workers when workers
demand perks that are outside of generous salaries forces entities into change.
I know my colleagues at NASA that _used_to_live_ in the Bay Area are now
scattered along the Western US, and this because their government pay-scale
did not match the cost of living there, while the agency struggled to find good
workers.

2. I think that the Linux office-desktop is still elusive. Thank, in part,
Apple and the popularity of Macbooks, thank Microsoft for centralizing the
software (SaaS concepts), etc. I could be wrong, but I do not know of too
many Linux office workstation work-places unless they are in tech.


From tonyyarusso at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 10:20:27 2018
From: tonyyarusso at gmail.com (Tony Yarusso)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 10:20:27 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Idea/invention patents (off topic)
In-Reply-To: <20180614162113.GB15272@nobelware.com>
References: <cbaba623-9d0a-8b27-f1fa-6625f1382ac8@gvtel.com>
 <20180614162113.GB15272@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <CAOZLdJUmTFinsZ7gDUPkBy6xQQPGaVKU__jFDFqMZEQVMN6EQg@mail.gmail.com>

You'd also have to check the terms of your employment contract - it's
very common for employers to claim ownership of all "work product"
produced for them.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> Great stuff! Glad to see this kind of stuff created. And a noble cause.
>
> You may want to talk to a patent attorney (I know this is not helping much).
> Perhaps you can give a call to the Office of Technology Commercialization at
> the Univ. of Minnesota and ask questions. As a Land-grant institution, they
> are supposed to be helping the public.
>
> Alternatively, to see if there is any money to be made there, you can talk to
> a "venture capital" firm, ask them to partner with you under an NDA, and see
> if they are interested in doing the market research on your behalf.
>
> Patent application fees can exceed $5k, if I recall correctly. It will also
> take some time, and there are no guarantees that you will receive a patent.
>
> A more interesting and daring path would be to approach SmartThings and see
> if they are interested. You may have to swap some pieces out for using their
> technology, or they can straight-up buy it. Just a thought.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

From kermit4 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 15 12:57:22 2018
From: kermit4 at gmail.com (Christopher Pearson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 12:57:22 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: tclug-list Digest, Vol 162, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>

From: Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com>
Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux employers?

>> Yes, what's the real root question or issue here?

> Christopher should try and be a little more explicit about what he has in mind.

Sorry, what I meant was, I want to work with people who use Linux, not
Windows or Mac, again.  I have before.  I'm only starting to realize
how rare that is, even though so many servers and products run it, the
people who work on it for reasons that mystify me don't.  If I were
hiring for Linux work, I'd want to hire people who run Linux, not
exclude or marginalize them while lowering their enthusiasm,
productivity, and opportunities to improve their area of skill.  But
that's their problem.  Mine is that I don't do Win/Mac.  I do Linux.

From rhayman at pureice.com  Fri Jun 15 14:11:58 2018
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 14:11:58 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: tclug-list Digest, Vol 162, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
 <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1529089918.4648.38.camel@pureice.com>

Traditional-thinking companies want to restrict their employees using
some type of desktop management system to set policies and permissions
and limit activities (e.g. limit or deny admin/root access).
Windows desktops have plenty of ways for employers to do that.
Macs have some ways (Jamf is probably the front runner) for employers
to do that.
Linux doesn't have a way for employers to do that to my knowledge.
In my opinion, that is the major factor why Linux hasn't gained more
desktop support in companies, so you are totally correct - they're
rare.
I bet the company you worked for grok'd continuous delivery, or had a
non-traditional view of productivity.
But, Google what you're looking for - employers that allow linux
desktops
They're out there.
On Fri, 2018-06-15 at 12:57 -0500, Christopher Pearson wrote:
> From: Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Linux employers?
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, what's the real root question or issue here?
> > 
> > Christopher should try and be a little more explicit about what he
> > has in mind.
> Sorry, what I meant was, I want to work with people who use Linux,
> not
> Windows or Mac, again.??I have before.??I'm only starting to realize
> how rare that is, even though so many servers and products run it,
> the
> people who work on it for reasons that mystify me don't.??If I were
> hiring for Linux work, I'd want to hire people who run Linux, not
> exclude or marginalize them while lowering their enthusiasm,
> productivity, and opportunities to improve their area of skill.??But
> that's their problem.??Mine is that I don't do Win/Mac.??I do Linux.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180615/1542926b/attachment.html>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Jun 15 16:42:41 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 21:42:41 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: tclug-list Digest, Vol 162, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <1529089918.4648.38.camel@pureice.com>
References: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
 <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1529089918.4648.38.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20180615214241.GA13797@nobelware.com>

> Linux doesn't have a way for employers to do that to my knowledge.

There are plenty. It may involve having passwords on the BIOS in order to be
user-restrictive, but generally if they control the network over which your
desktop is connected, they can have you do anything you need without superuser
access.

Been doing it for 19.65 years now, successfully.


From rhayman at pureice.com  Sun Jun 17 15:16:44 2018
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 15:16:44 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: tclug-list Digest, Vol 162, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <20180615214241.GA13797@nobelware.com>
References: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
 <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1529089918.4648.38.camel@pureice.com>
 <20180615214241.GA13797@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <1529266604.4648.49.camel@pureice.com>

You centrally manage all linux devices, controlling what users can (and
can't) do on their company-issued linux machines?
And you can keep them configured in a certain way (re-setting them back
to your company policy as needed)?
And you can remotely push software, make some of it brain-dead, and
uninstall it at will from your centralized system?
All this without needing ssh or logging into each system individually?
And you've been doing that for almost 20 years??
Tell me more.
On Fri, 2018-06-15 at 21:42 +0000, Iznogoud wrote:
> > 
> > Linux doesn't have a way for employers to do that to my knowledge.
> There are plenty. It may involve having passwords on the BIOS in
> order to be
> user-restrictive, but generally if they control the network over
> which your
> desktop is connected, they can have you do anything you need without
> superuser
> access.
> 
> Been doing it for 19.65 years now, successfully.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180617/41b3794e/attachment.html>

From sfertch at gmail.com  Sun Jun 17 16:01:59 2018
From: sfertch at gmail.com (Shawn Fertch)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 16:01:59 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: tclug-list Digest, Vol 162, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <1529266604.4648.49.camel@pureice.com>
References: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
 <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1529089918.4648.38.camel@pureice.com> <20180615214241.GA13797@nobelware.com>
 <1529266604.4648.49.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <CAJCD7j6Nczij7hq+-d0E8SCXnopwXf7yiSqAW+U-_NNXsheBWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 3:16 PM r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> wrote:
>
> You centrally manage all linux devices, controlling what users can (and can't) do on their company-issued linux machines?
> And you can keep them configured in a certain way (re-setting them back to your company policy as needed)?
> And you can remotely push software, make some of it brain-dead, and uninstall it at will from your centralized system?
> All this without needing ssh or logging into each system individually?
> And you've been doing that for almost 20 years?
>
> Tell me more.

Ever hear of configuration management?

SysConf
cfengine
Satellite/Spacewalk
Ansible

Just to name a few...


There's also LTSP if you want to go that route


Plenty of bread crumb trails there for you to start following and researching.

From rhayman at pureice.com  Sun Jun 17 21:01:04 2018
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 21:01:04 -0500
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: tclug-list Digest, Vol 162, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <CAJCD7j6Nczij7hq+-d0E8SCXnopwXf7yiSqAW+U-_NNXsheBWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
 <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1529089918.4648.38.camel@pureice.com>
 <20180615214241.GA13797@nobelware.com>
 <1529266604.4648.49.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAJCD7j6Nczij7hq+-d0E8SCXnopwXf7yiSqAW+U-_NNXsheBWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1529287264.2927.31.camel@pureice.com>

Apples and Tomatoes... (they're both fruits)
Yes, I've heard of, and worked with, and implemented many suites of
tools mentioned in this thread.
The problem still remains - a lack of parity with the microsoft windows
and mac os x tools, and that's still the main barrier to linux adoption
on the desktop.
The robustness of these tools are still a barrier to adoption in
traditional thinking organizations.?
I wish this weren't the case but it is.?
On Sun, 2018-06-17 at 16:01 -0500, Shawn Fertch wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 3:16 PM r hayman <rhayman at pureice.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > You centrally manage all linux devices, controlling what users can
> > (and can't) do on their company-issued linux machines?
> > And you can keep them configured in a certain way (re-setting them
> > back to your company policy as needed)?
> > And you can remotely push software, make some of it brain-dead, and
> > uninstall it at will from your centralized system?
> > All this without needing ssh or logging into each system
> > individually?
> > And you've been doing that for almost 20 years?
> > 
> > Tell me more.
> Ever hear of configuration management?
> 
> SysConf
> cfengine
> Satellite/Spacewalk
> Ansible
> 
> Just to name a few...
> 
> 
> There's also LTSP if you want to go that route
> 
> 
> Plenty of bread crumb trails there for you to start following and
> researching.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.mn-linux.org/pipermail/tclug-list/attachments/20180617/078b495d/attachment.html>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Jun 18 08:05:53 2018
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:05:53 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Fwd: tclug-list Digest, Vol 162, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <1529287264.2927.31.camel@pureice.com>
References: <mailman.1.1529082002.3033.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
 <CAGtzr3d2FL5pZzvbnjQh8G4QnaVpwhrg8kZVL0V8s-BXzoy0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1529089918.4648.38.camel@pureice.com> <20180615214241.GA13797@nobelware.com>
 <1529266604.4648.49.camel@pureice.com>
 <CAJCD7j6Nczij7hq+-d0E8SCXnopwXf7yiSqAW+U-_NNXsheBWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1529287264.2927.31.camel@pureice.com>
Message-ID: <20180618130553.GA2955@nobelware.com>

Randy, to answer your earlier questions:

No need for any of the tools mentioned in that response to you. Unix and Linux
had it going much earlier. I am surprised this question was even asked here.
Yes, 20 years ago when I got here, there were already running a wide network
of a mix of SGIs, Suns and even Windows, all centrally managed. The switch
the Linux (on the Unix side) was swift in 2000. And the user permissions
are managed by groups, all possible with the good old "yellow pages" ("yp"),
of Linux NIS. Surely you have heard of it.

Individual systems are tied to specific RJ45s through the NIC address, and
they are bootp-ed (PXE) with specific IPs. You need to get to the hardware
to attempt malicious work. It is hard to break its security, but it can be
done. But it is also easily detectable. This system has worked flawlessly
across distributions and versions.