From o1bigtenor at gmail.com  Wed Dec  4 19:51:08 2019
From: o1bigtenor at gmail.com (o1bigtenor)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:51:08 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] replacement graphic card problems
Message-ID: <CAPpdf5-JtAeO_Z7H3VDYXL-r86WQVjRDFVqNb9y-MRvbpEiqGA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings

I had a system built in Jan 2012 which included an Asus P9X79 mobo and
3 Geforce 570 video cards where I've been running a variant of Debian,
usually testing, ever since. I ran using 2 of those cards utilizing
first fully proprietary drivers and then a couple years ago I shifted
to the debian version of the same. This last spring 2 of the 3 cards
failed and nvidia retired support for the cards in their current
drivers so I went to using nouveau for my graphic card driver.
I purchased a Radeon RX570 graphics card and a week ago swapped out
Nvidia 570 card. I was unable to even get the system to post on first
try (I had all 4 monitors plugged into the gpu). Went back to the
Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon
RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light
do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. I called my
purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now
telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine.

I'm not sure what to do or what I did wrong in my install attempt.

Any ideas?

TIA

From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 10:12:13 2019
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 10:12:13 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Windows 10 laptop time is off
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvMkQgepr0G2uGWTMdhcjbp=yLB7FbOSTY7PvEKcSQNUQ@mail.gmail.com>

 Shalom, TClug,

After a reboot, my laptop's time is slow by 5 or 6 minutes.
The laptop is over a year old and previously the time has
been correct.  I tried to figure out how to manually adjust
the time, but wasn't able.  I restarted it again to see if that
fixed it, but it didn't.  I use the laptop to read about Linux
and to work on cross platform code.  Any ideas on how to
fix this?  Tia


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprise - Enjoying programming again.
https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards
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From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 10:28:03 2019
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 10:28:03 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Windows 10 laptop time is off
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjvMkQgepr0G2uGWTMdhcjbp=yLB7FbOSTY7PvEKcSQNUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjvMkQgepr0G2uGWTMdhcjbp=yLB7FbOSTY7PvEKcSQNUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABWFOjvnjgST=pfuNrRn29vouzv9QgLBUe5OMkrY2Sv7DywMMA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:12 AM Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Shalom, TClug,
>
> After a reboot, my laptop's time is slow by 5 or 6 minutes.
> The laptop is over a year old and previously the time has
> been correct.  I tried to figure out how to manually adjust
> the time, but wasn't able.  I restarted it again to see if that
> fixed it, but it didn't.  I use the laptop to read about Linux
> and to work on cross platform code.  Any ideas on how to
> fix this?  Tia
>
>
>
I seem to have fixed it by turning on the "Windows Time"
service.  I'm not sure why it needed to be started, though.


> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprise - Enjoying programming again.
> https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards
>
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From rhayman at pureice.com  Thu Dec  5 14:40:20 2019
From: rhayman at pureice.com (r hayman)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:40:20 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] replacement graphic card problems
In-Reply-To: <CAPpdf5-JtAeO_Z7H3VDYXL-r86WQVjRDFVqNb9y-MRvbpEiqGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPpdf5-JtAeO_Z7H3VDYXL-r86WQVjRDFVqNb9y-MRvbpEiqGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1fb7d39d3f235ce6df9bbbdd7e37ea231abaf887.camel@pureice.com>

On Wed, 2019-12-04 at 19:51 -0600, o1bigtenor wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> I had a system built in Jan 2012 which included an Asus P9X79 mobo and
> 3 Geforce 570 video cards where I've been running a variant of Debian,
> usually testing, ever since. I ran using 2 of those cards utilizing
> first fully proprietary drivers and then a couple years ago I shifted
> to the debian version of the same. This last spring 2 of the 3 cards
> failed and nvidia retired support for the cards in their current
> drivers so I went to using nouveau for my graphic card driver.
> I purchased a Radeon RX570 graphics card and a week ago swapped out
> Nvidia 570 card. I was unable to even get the system to post on first
> try (I had all 4 monitors plugged into the gpu). Went back to the
> Nvidia card and the system is working just fine. Tried the Radeon
> RX570 again this time only plugging in 1 monitor - - - - the gpu light
> do come on but I can't tell if much further is happening. I called my
> purchase point and they requested I send it back to them. They are now
> telling me that the card is working well on their M$ test machine.
> 
> I'm not sure what to do or what I did wrong in my install attempt.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> TIA
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
> 

Switching from Nvidia to Radeon, or vice versa, means you need to
switch your video drivers and generally a pain in the butt because of
the need to completely remove or blacklist some/all of the previous
driver files.

For some reason I have it in my head that nouveau will not work with
Radeon, but I could be wrong here.

Here's what I'm currently running (Ubuntu 18.04, a Debian variant) and
driving a 40" 3840x2160 and a 24" 1920x1200 display both @ 60Hz, and I
switched from an Nvidia card when I got the 4K UHD display.

# lspci -nn | grep -E 'VGA|Display'
02:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
[AMD/ATI] Hawaii PRO [Radeon R9 290/390] [1002:67b1] (rev 80)

# lshw -c video
  *-display                 
       description: VGA compatible controller
       product: Hawaii PRO [Radeon R9 290/390]
       vendor: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
       physical id: 0
       bus info: pci at 0000:02:00.0
       version: 80
       width: 64 bits
       clock: 33MHz
       capabilities: pm pciexpress msi vga_controller bus_master
cap_list rom
       configuration: driver=radeon latency=0
       resources: irq:30 memory:d0000000-dfffffff memory:cf800000-
cfffffff ioport:a000(size=256) memory:fba80000-fbabffff memory:c0000-
dffff

# modinfo -F filename `lshw -c video | awk '/configuration:
driver/{print $2}' | cut -d= -f2`
/lib/modules/4.15.0-72-generic/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/radeon/radeon.ko


See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver

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From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Thu Dec  5 15:46:29 2019
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:46:29 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Windows 10 laptop time is off
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjvnjgST=pfuNrRn29vouzv9QgLBUe5OMkrY2Sv7DywMMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjvMkQgepr0G2uGWTMdhcjbp=yLB7FbOSTY7PvEKcSQNUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABWFOjvnjgST=pfuNrRn29vouzv9QgLBUe5OMkrY2Sv7DywMMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9D84E5C6-53BE-400F-8327-7E6C3B9DCDCD@cwis.biz>

Someone in a Windows User Group probably can answer that for you.

But this is not a Windows User Group.

> On Dec 5, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:12 AM Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com <mailto:woodbrian77 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>  Shalom, TClug,
> 
> After a reboot, my laptop's time is slow by 5 or 6 minutes.
> The laptop is over a year old and previously the time has
> been correct.  I tried to figure out how to manually adjust 
> the time, but wasn't able.  I restarted it again to see if that 
> fixed it, but it didn't.  I use the laptop to read about Linux 
> and to work on cross platform code.  Any ideas on how to 
> fix this?  Tia
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to have fixed it by turning on the "Windows Time"
> service.  I'm not sure why it needed to be started, though.
>  
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprise - Enjoying programming again.
> https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards <https://github.com/Ebenezer-group/onwards>  
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list

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From eng at pinenet.com  Fri Dec  6 10:46:27 2019
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:46:27 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion.
Message-ID: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com>

I created a Firefox web browser account out of curiosity. Then I tried 
to figure out what "sync"ing on multiple devices was, and "browsing 
history." Even had to figure out how to sign out from the Firefox 
account. Anybody else wonder if web browsing has gotten too complicated??

Also, playing with old motherboards is getting spooky. My old Intel 
desktop boards lost their downloadable bios and tech documents Nov. 22 
when Intel did as promised and ended the download service. Just as I was 
learning and liking the bootable CDROM bios ISOs. How will I ever figure 
out the new UEFI junk??

I saw this first on the KDE desktop with different "Activities" desktops 
running concurrently. Nobody can learn without some mental focus. So 
it's a nice computer trick, but worthless as an information technology.

When simple gets complex I wonder who benefits: the user or the vendor?? 
A great friend now 89 exclusively works on ancient cars, currently a 
1929 Model A Ford.

I'm wondering if there are any new hardware platforms for Linux, maybe a 
little bigger than Raspberry Pi, that can offer hope to the future?? My 
hands hold a chain saw pretty good, and I can't use those pocket 
computing devices.

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Fri Dec  6 16:02:34 2019
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 22:02:34 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion.
In-Reply-To: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com>
References: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com>

I do not have much info to offer on the browsing thing. I would guess that
one would want their browser history to be available to them rather than to
some --albeit benevolent-- organization.

There are pieces of hardware that run Linux and are gaining popularity. There
is this $200 ARM-based laptop. There are some "open" hardware platforms that
are under development. There is hardware that is "vetted" to not have any
backdoors, primarily in the BIOS, etc. I wish I had links to share, but
somebbody here will point them out, I am sure.


From eng at pinenet.com  Fri Dec  6 17:31:53 2019
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:31:53 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion.
In-Reply-To: <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com>
References: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com>
 <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <55d9ff24-a803-c185-aacf-2ceed6849a26@pinenet.com>

As always, thanks for the shared wisdom.

Firefox probably saves my browsing history whether I create a "sync"ed 
device account or not. At least now I know they do. Firefox must have a 
huge profile on me: nothing but foxnews.com. I won't expect to fool our 
friendly politicians these days.

I never joined facebook or twitter either. But I did just refresh my 
opensuse forums account. On first glimpse, all the hardware questions 
are about nitpicking obscurities, not foundation standards.

Somebody could make a great home PC using Linux and modern silicon 
chips. Probably what the hardware industry is afraid of.


Iznogoud wrote:
> I do not have much info to offer on the browsing thing. I would guess that
> one would want their browser history to be available to them rather than to
> some --albeit benevolent-- organization.
>
> There are pieces of hardware that run Linux and are gaining popularity. There
> is this $200 ARM-based laptop. There are some "open" hardware platforms that
> are under development. There is hardware that is "vetted" to not have any
> backdoors, primarily in the BIOS, etc. I wish I had links to share, but
> somebbody here will point them out, I am sure.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Fri Dec  6 18:08:07 2019
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 18:08:07 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion.
In-Reply-To: <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com>
References: <3dc03d84-5053-3e6d-f2a7-b0cd0822b364@pinenet.com>
 <20191206220234.GA31032@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <c920582c-0a4e-ac7b-8994-fb55f33a64eb@pinenet.com>

BTW, while late night sneak reading from my son-in-law's computer 
library I read how ARM cpus were developed by a company called VLSI 
(very large scale integration). I believe they were once a Minnesota 
company in the days of Control Data and the super computer company ETA.

It would be really nice to see some new hardware technology emerge.

Iznogoud wrote:
> I do not have much info to offer on the browsing thing. I would guess that
> one would want their browser history to be available to them rather than to
> some --albeit benevolent-- organization.
>
> There are pieces of hardware that run Linux and are gaining popularity. There
> is this $200 ARM-based laptop. There are some "open" hardware platforms that
> are under development. There is hardware that is "vetted" to not have any
> backdoors, primarily in the BIOS, etc. I wish I had links to share, but
> somebbody here will point them out, I am sure.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From eng at pinenet.com  Mon Dec  9 19:33:44 2019
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 19:33:44 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Old man's confusion solved.
Message-ID: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>

According to the Raspberry Pi web site, the new Pi 4 is exactly intended 
as a linux desktop. Low cost, low power, low resource use, powerful 
network and display capabilities make it a benchmark for billions of people.

Opensuse Tumbleweed distro does have ARM ports for previous Pi boards 
(ARM version 6 and 7) but doesn't seem to yet cover the Pi 4 version 8 ARM.

I don't know anything about this stuff anymore, and would play with it 
like my first Pi if younger. I'm just happy the razzle dazzle computer 
extremists haven't destroyed the market development for small, simple, 
efficient, reliable communications and IT hardware.

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Dec  9 20:21:40 2019
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 20:21:40 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>

Have you tried just using the Raspbian that is written for it? 
Ubuntu Mate is updated for it now, too.

The thing is the chipset that is in the new ARMs is nowhere near the same as the previous versions, or so I’ve read, and the video drivers weren’t compatible either, so they all had to be rewritten.

Tumbleweed might get updated for it sometime soon.

Give those other two distros a shot. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
—
Ryan

> On Dec 9, 2019, at 7:33 PM, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> 
> According to the Raspberry Pi web site, the new Pi 4 is exactly intended as a linux desktop. Low cost, low power, low resource use, powerful network and display capabilities make it a benchmark for billions of people.
> 
> Opensuse Tumbleweed distro does have ARM ports for previous Pi boards (ARM version 6 and 7) but doesn't seem to yet cover the Pi 4 version 8 ARM.
> 
> I don't know anything about this stuff anymore, and would play with it like my first Pi if younger. I'm just happy the razzle dazzle computer extremists haven't destroyed the market development for small, simple, efficient, reliable communications and IT hardware.
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Mon Dec  9 21:27:35 2019
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 03:27:35 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
 <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>

I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu
hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing
is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS,
and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a
license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of
the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff.

(Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.)


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Mon Dec  9 21:44:35 2019
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 21:44:35 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
 <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
 <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz>

I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping. 

So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\

> On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu
> hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing
> is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS,
> and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a
> license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of
> the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff.
> 
> (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Dec 10 03:30:10 2019
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 03:30:10 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
 <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
 <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>
 <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>

Delightful. Thanks.

When my son-in-law bought me a Pi years ago I was impressed with the 
Raspian OS. But the wire to our HDMI TV, and wire to our network were a 
stretch. He had to go to the store to buy a USB keyboard. Now I learn 
that my beautiful TV is only 2K video and the Pi 4 generates 4K video. 
So I am totally ignorant, yet totally hopeful.




Ryan Coleman wrote:
> I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping.
>
> So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\
>
>> On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu
>> hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing
>> is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS,
>> and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a
>> license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of
>> the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff.
>>
>> (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Tue Dec 10 12:09:20 2019
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:09:20 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
 <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
 <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>
 <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz>
 <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com>

On the subject of RPi and distros/OSs, what media do people use to run their
OS for hte RPi? Is it cards? has anyone attached regular drives? And what is
the favourite way of straight-up tweaking the RPi's OS before deploying it?
And, lst one, has anyone powered the RPi and a harddrive from a common power
supply/battery?

I am interested in having a robust filesystem, as in, having proper shutdown
procedure when power on the RPi's primary source is running low (say due to
a power outage of the UPS). I would like to power the RPi and a regular SSD
or HDD from a single source.


From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Dec 10 15:51:39 2019
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 15:51:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
References: <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
Message-ID: <515D113A-F382-45E3-B229-616F46046D0C@cwis.biz>

No, it doesn’t only do 4K - sounds like it was configured for one screen and fixed in that config. Mine work on 720, 1080 and 4K without issue. 

> On Dec 10, 2019, at 03:31, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
> 
> Delightful. Thanks.
> 
> When my son-in-law bought me a Pi years ago I was impressed with the Raspian OS. But the wire to our HDMI TV, and wire to our network were a stretch. He had to go to the store to buy a USB keyboard. Now I learn that my beautiful TV is only 2K video and the Pi 4 generates 4K video. So I am totally ignorant, yet totally hopeful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ryan Coleman wrote:
>> I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping.
>> 
>> So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\
>> 
>>>> On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu
>>> hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing
>>> is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS,
>>> and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a
>>> license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of
>>> the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff.
>>> 
>>> (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Dec 10 17:26:19 2019
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:26:19 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <515D113A-F382-45E3-B229-616F46046D0C@cwis.biz>
References: <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
 <515D113A-F382-45E3-B229-616F46046D0C@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <00172556-128e-cc95-d764-681eafb9c07d@pinenet.com>

Sorry, I must have said it badly. When reading the Pi 4 specs I didn't 
know what 4K (or 2K) video meant so I looked it up on Wikipedia and 
learned how obsolete my TV is. In fact, when my daughter and husband 
bought the CanaKit Pi model B I didn't know what HDMI was. In fact my 
daughter bought us the TV a few years earlier.

All I know is Unix is too good to abandon. And my conservative 
philosophy of modesty is reinforced by new homes being built out here 
with 1/4 mile long driveways: snow happens bigshots!

Young network experts have a busy future. Best regards.


Ryan Coleman wrote:
> No, it doesn’t only do 4K - sounds like it was configured for one screen and fixed in that config. Mine work on 720, 1080 and 4K without issue.
>
>> On Dec 10, 2019, at 03:31, Rick Engebretson <eng at pinenet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Delightful. Thanks.
>>
>> When my son-in-law bought me a Pi years ago I was impressed with the Raspian OS. But the wire to our HDMI TV, and wire to our network were a stretch. He had to go to the store to buy a USB keyboard. Now I learn that my beautiful TV is only 2K video and the Pi 4 generates 4K video. So I am totally ignorant, yet totally hopeful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ryan Coleman wrote:
>>> I haven’t tried the new Mate yet as the latest Raspbian runs Chromium well enough that I don’t need to change things for my RiseVision test units. I now own 5 Pi4’s, 5 or 6 Pi 3B+’s and a couple of Zeros w/o headers or wifi for prototyping.
>>>
>>> So far I’m happy with my investment but other tasks have taken priority over those projects. :-\
>>>
>>>>> On Dec 9, 2019, at 9:27 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have an RPi 2B+ (I think) that happily runs a Rasbian Whizzy. As an Ubuntu
>>>> hater, I had to learn to like it, and it is fine. One very interesting thing
>>>> is that Wolfram Research loaded Mathematica (the software package) on this OS,
>>>> and so the OS's users can freely use this software without having to get a
>>>> license for it. It was not too slow for rendering graphics, etc, in spite of
>>>> the slow processor of the Pi. Great stuff.
>>>>
>>>> (Stephen Wolfram is a good giuy, and his books are great.)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
>> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
>> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From ryan.coleman at cwis.biz  Tue Dec 10 17:31:42 2019
From: ryan.coleman at cwis.biz (Ryan Coleman)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:31:42 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
 <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
 <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>
 <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz>
 <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
 <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <7FB32AFD-2834-4CE1-B571-1749068A8DD1@cwis.biz>

I use no slower than Class 10 mSDHC cards in mine. Anything slower takes for-ev-er to image. 

There’s no way to add a SATA drive to the Pi without doing it over USB so there’s no benefit to that other than capacity to doing it that way - you’re probably better set using it as secondary storage and not running the OS from it. That’s the plan with my projects.

I’ve run all my stuff off a massive 12VDC LGM battery for days at a time without issue and, to be fair, shutting down improperly is something the Pi just doesn’t have to worry that much about. Yes files get left open sometimes but I’ve never had one fail because of a file issue… entire cards have failed but never a boot failure caused by locked files.

Tweaking can be done directly on the memory card, if you feel you have to, but I use SSH connections for my non-Zeroes to do my configurations if I don’t have a KVM handy.

> On Dec 10, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com> wrote:
> 
> On the subject of RPi and distros/OSs, what media do people use to run their
> OS for hte RPi? Is it cards? has anyone attached regular drives? And what is
> the favourite way of straight-up tweaking the RPi's OS before deploying it?
> And, lst one, has anyone powered the RPi and a harddrive from a common power
> supply/battery?
> 
> I am interested in having a robust filesystem, as in, having proper shutdown
> procedure when power on the RPi's primary source is running low (say due to
> a power outage of the UPS). I would like to power the RPi and a regular SSD
> or HDD from a single source.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list


From eng at pinenet.com  Tue Dec 10 17:33:00 2019
From: eng at pinenet.com (Rick Engebretson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:33:00 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
 <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
 <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>
 <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz>
 <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
 <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com>
Message-ID: <6f3e2c2b-6d09-01b1-b303-3ac79b30bc12@pinenet.com>

As always, very wise comments on TCLUG. You are among the few who can 
shape a billion new users eager to jump the "digital divide."


Iznogoud wrote:
> On the subject of RPi and distros/OSs, what media do people use to run their
> OS for hte RPi? Is it cards? has anyone attached regular drives? And what is
> the favourite way of straight-up tweaking the RPi's OS before deploying it?
> And, lst one, has anyone powered the RPi and a harddrive from a common power
> supply/battery?
>
> I am interested in having a robust filesystem, as in, having proper shutdown
> procedure when power on the RPi's primary source is running low (say due to
> a power outage of the UPS). I would like to power the RPi and a regular SSD
> or HDD from a single source.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>

From iznogoud at nobelware.com  Wed Dec 11 14:36:22 2019
From: iznogoud at nobelware.com (Iznogoud)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:36:22 +0000
Subject: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved)
In-Reply-To: <7FB32AFD-2834-4CE1-B571-1749068A8DD1@cwis.biz>
References: <625c90f1-9ca4-e85e-40bb-7e2f89276389@pinenet.com>
 <5A14957F-060F-465D-A8C5-E3098972094B@cwis.biz>
 <20191210032735.GA2071@nobelware.com>
 <25DC9CF0-9C68-460C-9B1D-9EC70B4AD2EF@cwis.biz>
 <c3c91717-32ae-b77a-9b83-6dd828380a9d@pinenet.com>
 <20191210180920.GA11767@nobelware.com>
 <7FB32AFD-2834-4CE1-B571-1749068A8DD1@cwis.biz>
Message-ID: <20191211203622.GA19965@nobelware.com>

> 
> I use no slower than Class 10 mSDHC cards in mine. Anything slower takes for-ev-er to image. 
>

Right-on. I use my laptop for its card-reader/writer. Any ideas on one that I
should attach to desktops?


> There’s no way to add a SATA drive to the Pi without doing it over USB so there’s no benefit to that other than capacity to doing it that way - you’re probably better set using it as secondary storage and not running the OS from it. That’s the plan with my projects.
> 

Great advise. And this is also my conclusion. I want to OS to boot and rebuild
the RDWR partitions/mount-points so that I never corrupt the system itself,
which should run from RDONLY mount-points.

But where the data lives will be the USB-drive. That is why I need a robust
shutdown of the FS.


> I’ve run all my stuff off a massive 12VDC LGM battery for days at a time without issue and, to be fair, shutting down improperly is something the Pi just doesn’t have to worry that much about. Yes files get left open sometimes but I’ve never had one fail because of a file issue… entire cards have failed but never a boot failure caused by locked files.
> 

I had not looked closely on the booting sequence of the RPi to really know.
But I think you are right, that it has most of the OS in RDONLY mounts. But
data can be corrupt if collecting data is what one is doing.

Good pointer on the battery too. What I would like is to have a circuit to
monitor battery remaining capacity and attach it to the RPi itself. Info on
something like that?


> Tweaking can be done directly on the memory card, if you feel you have to, but I use SSH connections for my non-Zeroes to do my configurations if I don’t have a KVM handy.
>
 
I have done both. Remounting the partitions RW from a running system works
fine. What would be best is if I had a virtualization/emulation of the RPi
so that I can do all my booting testing on a VM. Ideas on that?

Thanks so much. This is great info!


From n0nas at amsat.org  Thu Dec 12 14:42:39 2019
From: n0nas at amsat.org (Doug Reed)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 14:42:39 -0600
Subject: [tclug-list] tclug-list Digest, Vol 180, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1576173601.18117.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
References: <mailman.1.1576173601.18117.tclug-list@mn-linux.org>
Message-ID: <CAL+RLOQmk4HPR8PvYXS02K3R5uQ8SD7aVDJh=hz5GFzVORdTCQ@mail.gmail.com>

There are multiple UPS HAT boards available for the Raspberry Pi. Most
have a lithium battery and can run the board for 10 minutes or more,
enough time to shut down the RasPi. One key would be to make sure the
UPS board you choose can supply more than enough current for the max
load of the RasPi board you use. The new RasPi 4B draws more current
than the previous models.

Doug.

On 12/12/19, tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org
<tclug-list-request at mn-linux.org> wrote:
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>    1. Re: Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion solved) (Iznogoud)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:36:22 +0000
> From: Iznogoud <iznogoud at nobelware.com>
> To: Ryan Coleman <ryan.coleman at cwis.biz>
> Cc: TCLUG Mailing List <tclug-list at mn-linux.org>
> Subject: Re: [tclug-list] Distros for rPi4 (was Old man's confusion
> 	solved)
> Message-ID: <20191211203622.GA19965 at nobelware.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>>
>> I use no slower than Class 10 mSDHC cards in mine. Anything slower takes
>> for-ev-er to image.
>>
>
> Right-on. I use my laptop for its card-reader/writer. Any ideas on one that
> I
> should attach to desktops?
>
>
>> There’s no way to add a SATA drive to the Pi without doing it over USB so
>> there’s no benefit to that other than capacity to doing it that way -
>> you’re probably better set using it as secondary storage and not running
>> the OS from it. That’s the plan with my projects.
>>
>
> Great advise. And this is also my conclusion. I want to OS to boot and
> rebuild
> the RDWR partitions/mount-points so that I never corrupt the system itself,
> which should run from RDONLY mount-points.
>
> But where the data lives will be the USB-drive. That is why I need a robust
> shutdown of the FS.
>
>
>> I’ve run all my stuff off a massive 12VDC LGM battery for days at a time
>> without issue and, to be fair, shutting down improperly is something the
>> Pi just doesn’t have to worry that much about. Yes files get left open
>> sometimes but I’ve never had one fail because of a file issue… entire
>> cards have failed but never a boot failure caused by locked files.
>>
>
> I had not looked closely on the booting sequence of the RPi to really know.
> But I think you are right, that it has most of the OS in RDONLY mounts. But
> data can be corrupt if collecting data is what one is doing.
>
> Good pointer on the battery too. What I would like is to have a circuit to
> monitor battery remaining capacity and attach it to the RPi itself. Info on
> something like that?
>
>
>> Tweaking can be done directly on the memory card, if you feel you have to,
>> but I use SSH connections for my non-Zeroes to do my configurations if I
>> don’t have a KVM handy.
>>
>
> I have done both. Remounting the partitions RW from a running system works
> fine. What would be best is if I had a virtualization/emulation of the RPi
> so that I can do all my booting testing on a VM. Ideas on that?
>
> Thanks so much. This is great info!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> TCLUG Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> tclug-list at mn-linux.org
> http://mailman.mn-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/tclug-list
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of tclug-list Digest, Vol 180, Issue 6
> ******************************************
>


-- 
I vote the Second Amendment FIRST!

The things they do not tell you are usually the clue to solving the problem.