From sulrich at botwerks.org Thu Jun 3 15:51:12 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:29 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] linksys wrv54g Message-ID: <20040603205111.GA16139@botwerks.org> i don't know how many people have a serious hankering for ipsec hacking on an AP. anywho...the wrv54g includes the intel IXP425, which has hardware crypto accelleration (aes, des and 3des). more details can be found here at the seattle wireless site where folks have been prodigiously hacking on it. http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/LinksysWrv54g having played with the wrt54g quite a bit i thought h/w crypto was pretty durn cool. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dryan at visi.com Fri Jun 4 11:59:52 2004 From: dryan at visi.com (Dave Ryan) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:29 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys wrt54g In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm sure many have already seen this, but if not, fyi. http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3362321 -dave _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andyw at pobox.com Mon Jun 7 09:44:02 2004 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:29 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. Message-ID: <20040607094402.F21521@florence.linkmargin.com> Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login screen; but the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of free hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot spots; along with the struggle to find a sustainable business model for the pay-per-use carriers. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted=all&position= -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at thewimaxguys.com Mon Jun 7 10:38:00 2004 From: mellsworth at thewimaxguys.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:29 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <20040607094402.F21521@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <000f01c44ca5$6a9b3d50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's claim that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used their service and it wasn't running any security as far as I could tell. Mike Ellsworth The WiMAX Guys, LLC StratVantage Consulting, LLC 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiMAXGuys.com Get a free one-hour wireless network evaluation. Forward this message to freebie@theWiMAXGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ?Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Andy Warner Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login screen; but the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of free hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot spots; along with the struggle to find a sustainable business model for the pay-per-use carriers. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted=a ll&position= -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andyw at pobox.com Mon Jun 7 11:11:36 2004 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:29 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <000f01c44ca5$6a9b3d50$6501a8c0@stratlap2>; from mellsworth@thewimaxguys.com on Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 10:38:00AM -0500 References: <20040607094402.F21521@florence.linkmargin.com> <000f01c44ca5$6a9b3d50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20040607111136.H21521@florence.linkmargin.com> Mike Ellsworth wrote: > The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's claim that > it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. Anybody got any > idea how they can claim that? I've used their service and it wasn't running > any security as far as I could tell. What about firewall rules to/from the internet and between attached clients ? I can see them having a canned config that might be better than some coffee store owner with a cable modem and a linksys - both running nearly default config.. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at thewimaxguys.com Mon Jun 7 11:24:01 2004 From: mellsworth at thewimaxguys.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <20040607111136.H21521@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <001a01c44cab$d8338470$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Yeah, denying interclient traffic is kind of what I had in mind. I wonder if they're doing that. Regarding the firewall rules, I'm not sure what value add they might have. Mike Ellsworth The WiMAX Guys, LLC StratVantage Consulting, LLC 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiMAXGuys.com Get a free one-hour wireless network evaluation. Forward this message to freebie@theWiMAXGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ?Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Andy Warner Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 11:12 AM To: Mike Ellsworth Cc: 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. Mike Ellsworth wrote: > The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's claim that > it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. Anybody got any > idea how they can claim that? I've used their service and it wasn't running > any security as far as I could tell. What about firewall rules to/from the internet and between attached clients ? I can see them having a canned config that might be better than some coffee store owner with a cable modem and a linksys - both running nearly default config.. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From kaze0010 at umn.edu Mon Jun 7 12:05:44 2004 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. Message-ID: <200406071705.i57H5idd011465@dingo.software.umn.edu> On 7 Jun 2004, Andy Warner wrote: > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a > login screen; but the NYTimes carried the following article > about the growth of free hot-spots, contrasted with > the fortunes of pay-per-use hot spots; along with the > struggle to find a sustainable business model for > the pay-per-use carriers. > -- Yep...it was a login page...here's the text... http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted= all&position= New York Times June 7, 2004 Where Entrepreneurs Go and the Internet Is Free By MATT RICHTEL SAN FRANCISCO, June 6 - Linda Branagan would seem to be the ideal customer for entrepreneurs and telecommunications companies looking to make money selling wireless Internet connections. But, like thousands of business road warriors, Ms. Branagan often does not pay for the service because she gets it free. At cafes, malls and downtown business districts, there has been an explosion of Internet access points, or Wi-Fi hot spots, that let computer users log on to the Internet for free. That growth is a fundamental reason - though not the only one - that technology start-ups, investors and industry analysts who had high hopes for Wi-Fi are scrambling to find sustainable business models. Ms. Branagan, a director of a medical device research company, pays T-Mobile, a unit of Deutsche Telekom, $6 an hour for a wireless Internet connection when she is in airports if there are no free access points. But it is another matter when she is working outside the office in San Francisco. "The Internet is free here," she said, as she sat doing research at The Canvas, an art gallery with a lounge and cafe setting in San Francisco's Sunset district. "Why would I pay T-Mobile?" she asked, when the cafe owners provide free Internet access to attract patrons. The number of Wi-Fi hot spots has grown rapidly in the last year, with as many as 15,000 in operation in public locations, according to the Yankee Group, a market research firm. But the difficulty of making a profit was made evident last month with the demise of Cometa Networks, a well-heeled Wi-Fi start-up backed by I.B.M., the Intel Corporation and the AT&T Corporation. Cometa, founded in 2002 to build a network of access points at retail outlets, announced on May 19 that it would suspend operations because it was not providing a suitable return to investors. Verizon Wireless, which said last year that it would build 1,000 Wi-Fi hot spots in Manhattan, has cut that number to around 500. Meanwhile, thousands of free hot spots have been established by public agencies, mom-and-pop businesses hoping to attract customers and individuals working to build a grass-roots based network. A handful of city governments, some in cooperation with local businesses, are deploying free Wi-Fi networks in parts of Jacksonville, Fla., lower Manhattan and Portland, Ore., among other places. "It's going to be hard for commercial carriers to make a profit," said Dewayne Hendricks, the chief executive of Dandin Group, a wireless Internet service provider based in Silicon Valley, who serves as technical adviser to the Federal Communications Commission on wireless Internet issues. Mr. Hendricks said the remarkable spread of free networks was forcing commercial carriers to rethink their strategies. "The infrastructure is being built from the bottom up," Mr. Hendricks said, referring to a municipal and grass-roots effort to deploy wireless connections. "How that plays out is potentially monumental," he said in affecting the way Internet access is provided. Each Wi-Fi hot spot has a radio transmitter and receiver that is connected to the Internet through a broadband connection like a digital subscriber line, or D.S.L. The transmitter communicates with personal computers and enables them to send information to, and receive information from, the Internet. The transmitters typically have a range of 150 to 1,000 feet, though there is new technology emerging that could send a signal over several miles. Because transmitters can be on different networks, a dozen or more hot spots can operate simultaneously in any given area, providing overlapping coverage. The connections do not interfere with each other because they are working on different radio channels. For users in big metropolitan areas like New York City and San Francisco, a free connection can almost always be found on blocks where hot spots are dense. Even so, not all companies selling Wi-Fi service are struggling. T-Mobile, for one, has a well-established and profitable business model, said Roberta Wiggins, an analyst with the Yankee Group. T-Mobile has 4,650 Wi-Fi hot spots in Kinko's, Borders Bookstores, hotels, airports and Starbucks cafes, and it is adding 35 a day, the company said. Last week, it announced plans to deploy hot-spot connections in 122 Hyatt Hotels in North America. Users pay $9.95 for single-day access, $29.99 for a monthly access to all hot spots in the network or $19.95 a month if they are customers of T-Mobile's cellphone service. The company would not disclose how many customers it has, or its revenue or profits. But Joe Sims, general manager of T-Mobile's Wi-Fi business, said, "We fully expect to make money in the public hot-spot business." He noted that the company has learned some important lessons - namely, that the hot spots need to be in locations with heavy traffic from business customers and that a profitable Wi-Fi business needs to build a national network and brand that will give users the ability to log on at a variety of locations using the same service. In the case of T-Mobile, he said, the company is keeping costs low by having the Wi-Fi division and its mobile-phone business share an underlying data network, as well as the network operation and customer call centers. Mr. Sims also he said the company is exploiting its brand name by marketing the wireless connection service to its existing cellphone customer base of 14.3 million users. Mr. Sims said he is not worried about the growth in free hot spots because he believes commercial networks can offer more reliable, more secure Internet access. Free service is fine for casual and periodic use, he said, but "when you absolutely, positively have to get that report downloaded or get access to your company system to conduct business, free probably isn't going to cut it." Indeed, when Ms. Branagan, 37, travels for business, she said she pays T-Mobile on an hourly basis for Internet access, mostly while waiting in the United Airlines Red Carpet room, where there is no free option. She added that she probably would sign up for a longer-term plan if the service were less expensive. Sitting beside her at the San Francisco cafe was Paul Hagen, 39, who runs a technology consulting company. Mr. Hagen said he would consider subscribing to a Wi-Fi plan if there were a provider that offered universal access to hot spots everywhere. That challenge - giving consumers the ability to pay for a single plan that covers hot spots in a variety of locations - may be essential to growth in the service, according to industry analysts. In the cellphone industry, universal access is accomplished by "roaming agreements" that let the customers of one mobile-phone provider use the network of a competitor. Most roaming agreements in the Wi-Fi business, said Mr. Sims of T-Mobile, are still relatively limited. In other respects, too, the Wi-Fi business may well go the way of other telecommunications services, said Ms. Wiggins of the Yankee Group, in that it could become dominated by telecommunications companies that already sell cellular, Internet and landline phone services in bundled plans. SBC Communications Inc., the regional phone company based in San Antonio, previously said it would roll out 3,000 hot spots by the end of next year, largely at UPS retail outlets. And in an announcement planned for Monday, SBC said it plans to offer access in 6,000 McDonald's outlets around the country. The cost is $19.95 a month for unlimited access. But Michael Coe, an SBC spokesman, said the company ultimately planned to offer a substantial discount to its existing customers. He said that SBC did not expect its hot spots to become a stand-alone business, but rather an offering along side cellular, Internet and land-based telephone service. While Wi-Fi "offers a revenue generating opportunity," he said, "it's real benefit to SBC is as a customer retention and acquisition tool." Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 7 12:34:05 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <000f01c44ca5$6a9b3d50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> References: <20040607094402.F21521@florence.linkmargin.com> <000f01c44ca5$6a9b3d50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20040607173404.GA22562@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's > claim that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. > Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used their > service and it wasn't running any security as far as I could tell. it's not just about link layer security. when you put your traffic onto an open hotspot from john doe you really don't know what they're doing with your traffic. it's not in the best interests of a t-mobile or SP to harvest subscriber traffic for their nefarious applications. i'm not saying that tmobile and other SPs can't sniff your traffic. but wifi with a branded hotspot probably isn't going to be snorting all the traffic that goes by. whereas you're more likely taking your chance with the freebies. further, many reputable carriers have the ability to do things like virus/worm mitigation in their access infrastructure. that's nice if someone jacks into the same segment and starts to hose you down with the virus of the day. such mechanisms would not be visible from the users persepctive. as with many things in life if you're going have unprotected packet exchange, you have risks. if you'd like to mitigate those risks, slather on the protection with copious amounts of crypto and f/ws. { snipped - misc .signatures } > > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of Andy Warner > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM > To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org > Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. > > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login screen; > but the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of > free hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot > spots; along with the struggle to find a sustainable business model > for the pay-per-use carriers. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted=a > ll&position= -- andyw@pobox.com { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From chewie at wookimus.net Mon Jun 7 12:49:25 2004 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <200406071705.i57H5idd011465@dingo.software.umn.edu> References: <200406071705.i57H5idd011465@dingo.software.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20040607174925.GO11214@wookimus.net> Skipped content of type multipart/signed-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Mon Jun 7 13:03:31 2004 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <20040607173404.GA22562@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <004b01c44cb9$c155c160$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Steve, Yeah, snorting traffic on public Websites is a risk that I have been waiting for corporate America to finally realize. Yet I don't see T-Mobile exploiting this possible advantage. If I were in charge of corporate security for a company of any size, I'd forbid employee use of public Wi-Fi. Mike Ellsworth The WiMAX Guys, LLC StratVantage Consulting, LLC 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiMAXGuys.com Get a free one-hour wireless network evaluation. Forward this message to freebie@theWiMAXGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ?Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of steve ulrich Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:34 PM To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's > claim that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. > Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used their > service and it wasn't running any security as far as I could tell. it's not just about link layer security. when you put your traffic onto an open hotspot from john doe you really don't know what they're doing with your traffic. it's not in the best interests of a t-mobile or SP to harvest subscriber traffic for their nefarious applications. i'm not saying that tmobile and other SPs can't sniff your traffic. but wifi with a branded hotspot probably isn't going to be snorting all the traffic that goes by. whereas you're more likely taking your chance with the freebies. further, many reputable carriers have the ability to do things like virus/worm mitigation in their access infrastructure. that's nice if someone jacks into the same segment and starts to hose you down with the virus of the day. such mechanisms would not be visible from the users persepctive. as with many things in life if you're going have unprotected packet exchange, you have risks. if you'd like to mitigate those risks, slather on the protection with copious amounts of crypto and f/ws. { snipped - misc .signatures } > > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of Andy Warner > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM > To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org > Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. > > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login screen; > but the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of > free hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot > spots; along with the struggle to find a sustainable business model > for the pay-per-use carriers. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted=a > ll&position= -- andyw@pobox.com { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Mon Jun 7 14:29:42 2004 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <004b01c44cb9$c155c160$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: I respectfully disagree with your recommendation, and I would hope you wouldn't recommend that to your customers. Well, at least I would hope you would take into consideration the company's business, the need for accessibility, (even if on a public access point) and the risk to the company presented by said connectivity. A quick-n-dirty solution to this problem (and my blanket recommendation to anyone without assessing need/risk/etc) is firewall on the laptop plus a VPN connection to the company/home over *any* wireless connection, trusted or not, WEP'd or not. More in response to Steve's comments, I wouldn't worry about TMobile sniffing your traffic or capturing information; this would IMO, provide a very clear privacy violation. I would worry more about the billing information you freely gave them, and whether their TOS allows for direct marketing or the sale of said information. >From the sniffing side, I'd worry more about someone sitting in the same Starbucks capturing your traffic for later decryption, while on the same TMobile hotspot. This risk is no more or less dangerous on an open/free hotspot. The problem with WEP is this excessive false sense of security. Yes, WEP defeats the majority of those that might only casually sniff traffic for kicks. If someone is dedicated enough to set up an open hotspot and install an inline sniffer to capture traffic, the same person could just sniff enough traffic to crack the WEP key and capture the same traffic. So, this is where the VPN recommendation comes into play. Sure, you want to decrypt my WEP'd traffic, go right ahead. You'll just get more encrypted traffic, that, if set up properly, isn't nearly as easily decrypted. In addition, by requiring VPN over public Aps (as the security guru of our imaginary company) I can also continue to monitor/block access to inappropriate material, monitor for information leakage, policy violations, etc. that I might be doing on my LAN. There are of course numerous other things that I would recommend or do, education being the first and most important, but VPN is a great start. -John > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ellsworth > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 1:04 PM > To: sulrich@botwerks.org; 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' > Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > Steve, > > Yeah, snorting traffic on public Websites is a risk that I > have been waiting for corporate America to finally realize. > Yet I don't see T-Mobile exploiting this possible advantage. > If I were in charge of corporate security for a company of > any size, I'd forbid employee use of public Wi-Fi. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of steve ulrich > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:34 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List > Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike > Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > > The most interesting thing I got from this article is > T-Mobile's claim > > that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. > > Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used > their service > > and it wasn't running any security as far as I could tell. > > it's not just about link layer security. when you put your > traffic onto an open hotspot from john doe you really don't > know what they're doing with your traffic. it's not in the > best interests of a t-mobile or SP to harvest subscriber > traffic for their nefarious applications. > > i'm not saying that tmobile and other SPs can't sniff your traffic. > but wifi with a branded hotspot probably isn't going to be > snorting all the traffic that goes by. whereas you're more > likely taking your chance with the freebies. > > further, many reputable carriers have the ability to do > things like virus/worm mitigation in their access > infrastructure. that's nice if someone jacks into the same > segment and starts to hose you down with the virus of the > day. such mechanisms would not be visible from the users persepctive. > > as with many things in life if you're going have unprotected > packet exchange, you have risks. if you'd like to mitigate > those risks, slather on the protection with copious amounts > of crypto and f/ws. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] > On > > Behalf Of Andy Warner > > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM > > To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business > model curve.. > > > > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login > screen; but > > the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of free > > hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot spots; > > along with the struggle to find a sustainable business > model for the > > pay-per-use carriers. > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib > =&pagewanted=a > > ll&position= _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From titlerw at datanautics.com Mon Jun 7 14:23:42 2004 From: titlerw at datanautics.com (William Titler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <004b01c44cb9$c155c160$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: The truth is that many of the big non web companies that are offering or planning to offer wifi in their stores for pay or free will be sniffing the traffic so that they can mine the information of where people go to create better marketing relationships. They will be using a login page that is not their own site but say Bestbuy.com with the login for the wifi network imbedded in the page at McDonalds. By sniffing the traffic McDonalds can see how long the user stayed on the site and what they bought so that bestbuy will be paying appropriately for the marketing. Bill Titer -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ellsworth Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 1:04 PM To: sulrich@botwerks.org; 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. Steve, Yeah, snorting traffic on public Websites is a risk that I have been waiting for corporate America to finally realize. Yet I don't see T-Mobile exploiting this possible advantage. If I were in charge of corporate security for a company of any size, I'd forbid employee use of public Wi-Fi. Mike Ellsworth The WiMAX Guys, LLC StratVantage Consulting, LLC 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiMAXGuys.com Get a free one-hour wireless network evaluation. Forward this message to freebie@theWiMAXGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of steve ulrich Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:34 PM To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's > claim that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. > Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used their > service and it wasn't running any security as far as I could tell. it's not just about link layer security. when you put your traffic onto an open hotspot from john doe you really don't know what they're doing with your traffic. it's not in the best interests of a t-mobile or SP to harvest subscriber traffic for their nefarious applications. i'm not saying that tmobile and other SPs can't sniff your traffic. but wifi with a branded hotspot probably isn't going to be snorting all the traffic that goes by. whereas you're more likely taking your chance with the freebies. further, many reputable carriers have the ability to do things like virus/worm mitigation in their access infrastructure. that's nice if someone jacks into the same segment and starts to hose you down with the virus of the day. such mechanisms would not be visible from the users persepctive. as with many things in life if you're going have unprotected packet exchange, you have risks. if you'd like to mitigate those risks, slather on the protection with copious amounts of crypto and f/ws. { snipped - misc .signatures } > > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of Andy Warner > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM > To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org > Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. > > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login screen; > but the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of > free hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot > spots; along with the struggle to find a sustainable business model > for the pay-per-use carriers. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted=a > ll&position= -- andyw@pobox.com { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From hoff0438 at umn.edu Mon Jun 7 14:32:48 2004 From: hoff0438 at umn.edu (John T. Hoffoss) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Probably, but this isn't nearly as ominous as McDoanlds (btw, this is the SSID of the Dinkytown McDonalds AP) capturing my CC info on said website. In addition, this really isn't any different than what is done with cookies, and in fact, this tracking could probably be embedded in normal website cookies tracking the source IP, and comparing with the DB of IPs McDonalds has available. > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of William Titler > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:24 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users > Group List; sulrich@botwerks.org > Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > The truth is that many of the big non web companies that are > offering or planning to offer wifi in their stores for pay or > free will be sniffing the traffic so that they can mine the > information of where people go to create better marketing > relationships. They will be using a login page that is not > their own site but say Bestbuy.com with the login for the > wifi network imbedded in the page at McDonalds. By sniffing > the traffic McDonalds can see how long the user stayed on the > site and what they bought so that bestbuy will be paying > appropriately for the marketing. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From titlerw at datanautics.com Mon Jun 7 14:49:57 2004 From: titlerw at datanautics.com (William Titler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:30 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree, this is not a tracking to be scared of it is the same that everyone does on their own sites today. Bill -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of John T. Hoffoss Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. Probably, but this isn't nearly as ominous as McDoanlds (btw, this is the SSID of the Dinkytown McDonalds AP) capturing my CC info on said website. In addition, this really isn't any different than what is done with cookies, and in fact, this tracking could probably be embedded in normal website cookies tracking the source IP, and comparing with the DB of IPs McDonalds has available. > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of William Titler > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:24 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users > Group List; sulrich@botwerks.org > Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > The truth is that many of the big non web companies that are > offering or planning to offer wifi in their stores for pay or > free will be sniffing the traffic so that they can mine the > information of where people go to create better marketing > relationships. They will be using a login page that is not > their own site but say Bestbuy.com with the login for the > wifi network imbedded in the page at McDonalds. By sniffing > the traffic McDonalds can see how long the user stayed on the > site and what they bought so that bestbuy will be paying > appropriately for the marketing. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From benmgroup at earthlink.net Mon Jun 7 14:59:05 2004 From: benmgroup at earthlink.net (Ben Nelson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Tomorrow Meeting important info! Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 7 15:15:49 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <004b01c44cb9$c155c160$6501a8c0@stratlap2> References: <20040607173404.GA22562@botwerks.org> <004b01c44cb9$c155c160$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20040607201548.GA782@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > Steve, > > Yeah, snorting traffic on public Websites is a risk that I have been > waiting for corporate America to finally realize. Yet I don't see > T-Mobile exploiting this possible advantage. If I were in charge of > corporate security for a company of any size, I'd forbid employee > use of public Wi-Fi. > forbidding the use of public WiFi networks seems particularly draconian. this is what IPSec is for. you tunnel all of the traffic to your corporate VPN concentrator and don't have to worry about folks sniffing the traffic. hence my remarks regarding the judicious use of crypto. i'm a _very_ mobile worker and i plug into service provider networks all over the place and i tunnel back to the vpn concentrator at corporate or home (depending on what i'm doing) i'm not worried about folks sniffing my traffic. > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of steve ulrich > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:34 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List > Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model > curve.. > > when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), > Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > > The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's > > claim that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free > > hotspots. Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used > > their service and it wasn't running any security as far as I could > > tell. > > it's not just about link layer security. when you put your traffic > onto an open hotspot from john doe you really don't know what > they're doing with your traffic. it's not in the best interests of > a t-mobile or SP to harvest subscriber traffic for their nefarious > applications. > > i'm not saying that tmobile and other SPs can't sniff your traffic. > but wifi with a branded hotspot probably isn't going to be snorting > all the traffic that goes by. whereas you're more likely taking > your chance with the freebies. > > further, many reputable carriers have the ability to do things like > virus/worm mitigation in their access infrastructure. that's nice > if someone jacks into the same segment and starts to hose you down > with the virus of the day. such mechanisms would not be visible > from the users persepctive. > > as with many things in life if you're going have unprotected packet > exchange, you have risks. if you'd like to mitigate those risks, > slather on the protection with copious amounts of crypto and f/ws. { snipped - misc .signatures } > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] > On > > Behalf Of Andy Warner > > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM > > To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. > > > > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login screen; > > but the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of > > free hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot > > spots; along with the struggle to find a sustainable business model > > for the pay-per-use carriers. > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted=a { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 7 15:19:51 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: [wireless] Tomorrow Meeting important info! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040607201951.GB782@botwerks.org> dang! this is the first meeting i'll be able to make in a loooong time. was looking forward to seeing you and other folks there. consider this notification of my intent to attend. :) when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Ben Nelson was madly tapping out: > Sorry all, but I won?t be at the meeting tomorrow. As attendance has been > sparse at the last few meetings, perhaps interested attendees could post > their intentions to the list before heading down to the Dunn Bros. That way > no one will be stuck there by themselves. > > For the record: > Dunn Bros > 201 3rd Avenue > Minneapolis, MN 55401 > 612-692-8530 > (on the same block as the Milwaukee Road Depot hotel and skating rink) > > Map and directions: http://tinyurl.com/79jt > > Limited parking behind the building, plenty of on-street parking near-by. { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From kaze0010 at umn.edu Mon Jun 7 15:34:58 2004 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: [wireless] Tomorrow Meeting important info! Message-ID: <200406072034.i57KYwuA011383@firefox.software.umn.edu> Hello all, I usually go except last month when I couldn't find parking near the park, nor the group itself. If there isn't a meeting agenda for this month, then perhaps there's no need to meet? -Haudy On 7 Jun 2004, Ben Nelson wrote: > Sorry all, but I won=B9t be at the meeting tomorrow. As attendance has been > sparse at the last few meetings, perhaps interested attendees could post > their intentions to the list before heading down to the Dunn Bros. That way > no one will be stuck there by themselves. > > For the record: > Dunn Bros > 201 3rd Avenue > Minneapolis, MN 55401 > 612-692-8530 > (on the same block as the Milwaukee Road Depot hotel and skating rink) > > Map and directions: http://tinyurl.com/79jt > > Limited parking behind the building, plenty of on-street parking near-by. > --=20 > Ben Nelson > 612.685.9116 cell > benmgroup@earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Mon Jun 7 18:29:22 2004 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <20040607201548.GA782@botwerks.org> References: <20040607173404.GA22562@botwerks.org><004b01c44cb9$c155c160$6501a8c0@stratlap2> <20040607201548.GA782@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <41484.66.41.175.167.1086650962.squirrel@secure.ringworld.org> > i'm a _very_ mobile worker and i plug into service provider networks > all over the place and i tunnel back to the vpn concentrator at > corporate or home (depending on what i'm doing) i'm not worried about > folks sniffing my traffic. ... as long as there is mutual authentication of the user and vpn. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at thewimaxguys.com Mon Jun 7 23:04:21 2004 From: mellsworth at thewimaxguys.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <41484.66.41.175.167.1086650962.squirrel@secure.ringworld.org> Message-ID: <002001c44d0d$b3364b50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> . . . and as long as you don't care that your Web traffic doesn't travel over the VPN and thus is in the clear. Mike Ellsworth The WiMAX Guys, LLC StratVantage Consulting, LLC 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiMAXGuys.com Get a free one-hour wireless network evaluation. Forward this message to freebie@theWiMAXGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ?Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Scott Dier Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 6:29 PM To: sulrich@botwerks.org; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List Cc: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. > i'm a _very_ mobile worker and i plug into service provider networks > all over the place and i tunnel back to the vpn concentrator at > corporate or home (depending on what i'm doing) i'm not worried about > folks sniffing my traffic. ... as long as there is mutual authentication of the user and vpn. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jun 8 07:14:01 2004 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <002001c44d0d$b3364b50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > . . . and as long as you don't care that your Web traffic doesn't travel > over the VPN and thus is in the clear. Who says it doesn't go through the VPN? You can set it up so that it does. Jima _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 8 00:08:47 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <002001c44d0d$b3364b50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> References: <41484.66.41.175.167.1086650962.squirrel@secure.ringworld.org> <002001c44d0d$b3364b50$6501a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20040608050846.GA1137@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > . . . and as long as you don't care that your Web traffic doesn't > travel over the VPN and thus is in the clear. and why wouldn't my http traffic go over the vpn? clearly the http traffic needs to be cleartext at somepoint, but that's going to be on the "other" side of the network, well beyond the "untrusted" portion of the encapsulating packet. if you're dumb enough to run in split tunnel mode when you don't trust the access infrastructure you get what you deserve. ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of Scott Dier > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 6:29 PM > To: sulrich@botwerks.org; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List > Cc: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List > Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model > curve.. > > > > i'm a _very_ mobile worker and i plug into service provider > > networks all over the place and i tunnel back to the vpn > > concentrator at corporate or home (depending on what i'm doing) > > i'm not worried about folks sniffing my traffic. > > ... as long as there is mutual authentication of the user and vpn. > :) { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 8 00:09:45 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <41484.66.41.175.167.1086650962.squirrel@secure.ringworld.org> References: <20040607201548.GA782@botwerks.org> <41484.66.41.175.167.1086650962.squirrel@secure.ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20040608050944.GB1137@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Scott Dier was madly tapping out: > > > i'm a _very_ mobile worker and i plug into service provider > > networks all over the place and i tunnel back to the vpn > > concentrator at corporate or home (depending on what i'm doing) > > i'm not worried about folks sniffing my traffic. > > ... as long as there is mutual authentication of the user and vpn. > :) scott- that's kind of a foregone conclusion. you really can't bring a trusted tunnel up otherwise... ;-) { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Jun 8 08:31:21 2004 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. In-Reply-To: <20040608050944.GB1137@botwerks.org> References: <20040607201548.GA782@botwerks.org> <41484.66.41.175.167.1086650962.squirrel@secure.ringworld.org> <20040608050944.GB1137@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <40C5BFA9.9060403@ringworld.org> steve ulrich wrote: > that's kind of a foregone conclusion. you really can't bring a > trusted tunnel up otherwise... ;-) Yeah, but too many users have been trained to ingore SSL warnings, imagine badly written VPN clients with the same interface. Yikes. -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From rsiggy101 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 8 14:33:45 2004 From: rsiggy101 at yahoo.com (rsiggybbw) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] RE: tcwug-list Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c46520$ea5a45c0$0300a8c0@rdslaptop> I agree with John's assessment and recommendation of VPN with PC level personal firewall on the laptop. More people get hit by P2P hacks while on a Public AP because they have Windows and NETBUI sharing enabled over IP w/o any personal firewall then sniffs or WEP hacks. John is absolutely right about user education being the minimum requirement before being allowed to VPN into the corporate network. Should I open a VPN session on PC w/o personal firewall a local P2P WiFi hacker could slingshot through my PC onto Corporate network. Keep Your Guard UP! -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of tcwug-list-request@tcwug.org Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 3:31 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] tcwug-list Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5 Send tcwug-list mailing list submissions to tcwug-list@tcwug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tcwug-list-request@tcwug.org You can reach the person managing the list at tcwug-list-owner@tcwug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of tcwug-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. (John T. Hoffoss) 2. RE: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. (John T. Hoffoss) 3. RE: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. (William Titler) 4. Tomorrow Meeting important info! (Ben Nelson) 5. Re: Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. (steve ulrich) 6. Re: [wireless] Tomorrow Meeting important info! (steve ulrich) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:29:42 -0500 From: "John T. Hoffoss" Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. To: "'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I respectfully disagree with your recommendation, and I would hope you wouldn't recommend that to your customers. Well, at least I would hope you would take into consideration the company's business, the need for accessibility, (even if on a public access point) and the risk to the company presented by said connectivity. A quick-n-dirty solution to this problem (and my blanket recommendation to anyone without assessing need/risk/etc) is firewall on the laptop plus a VPN connection to the company/home over *any* wireless connection, trusted or not, WEP'd or not. More in response to Steve's comments, I wouldn't worry about TMobile sniffing your traffic or capturing information; this would IMO, provide a very clear privacy violation. I would worry more about the billing information you freely gave them, and whether their TOS allows for direct marketing or the sale of said information. >From the sniffing side, I'd worry more about someone sitting in the same Starbucks capturing your traffic for later decryption, while on the same TMobile hotspot. This risk is no more or less dangerous on an open/free hotspot. The problem with WEP is this excessive false sense of security. Yes, WEP defeats the majority of those that might only casually sniff traffic for kicks. If someone is dedicated enough to set up an open hotspot and install an inline sniffer to capture traffic, the same person could just sniff enough traffic to crack the WEP key and capture the same traffic. So, this is where the VPN recommendation comes into play. Sure, you want to decrypt my WEP'd traffic, go right ahead. You'll just get more encrypted traffic, that, if set up properly, isn't nearly as easily decrypted. In addition, by requiring VPN over public Aps (as the security guru of our imaginary company) I can also continue to monitor/block access to inappropriate material, monitor for information leakage, policy violations, etc. that I might be doing on my LAN. There are of course numerous other things that I would recommend or do, education being the first and most important, but VPN is a great start. -John > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ellsworth > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 1:04 PM > To: sulrich@botwerks.org; 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' > Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > Steve, > > Yeah, snorting traffic on public Websites is a risk that I > have been waiting for corporate America to finally realize. > Yet I don't see T-Mobile exploiting this possible advantage. > If I were in charge of corporate security for a company of > any size, I'd forbid employee use of public Wi-Fi. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of steve ulrich > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:34 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List > Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike > Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > > The most interesting thing I got from this article is > T-Mobile's claim > > that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free hotspots. > > Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used > their service > > and it wasn't running any security as far as I could tell. > > it's not just about link layer security. when you put your > traffic onto an open hotspot from john doe you really don't > know what they're doing with your traffic. it's not in the > best interests of a t-mobile or SP to harvest subscriber > traffic for their nefarious applications. > > i'm not saying that tmobile and other SPs can't sniff your traffic. > but wifi with a branded hotspot probably isn't going to be > snorting all the traffic that goes by. whereas you're more > likely taking your chance with the freebies. > > further, many reputable carriers have the ability to do > things like virus/worm mitigation in their access > infrastructure. that's nice if someone jacks into the same > segment and starts to hose you down with the virus of the > day. such mechanisms would not be visible from the users persepctive. > > as with many things in life if you're going have unprotected > packet exchange, you have risks. if you'd like to mitigate > those risks, slather on the protection with copious amounts > of crypto and f/ws. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] > On > > Behalf Of Andy Warner > > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM > > To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business > model curve.. > > > > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login > screen; but > > the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of free > > hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot spots; > > along with the struggle to find a sustainable business > model for the > > pay-per-use carriers. > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib > =&pagewanted=a > > ll&position= ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:32:48 -0500 From: "John T. Hoffoss" Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. To: "'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Probably, but this isn't nearly as ominous as McDoanlds (btw, this is the SSID of the Dinkytown McDonalds AP) capturing my CC info on said website. In addition, this really isn't any different than what is done with cookies, and in fact, this tracking could probably be embedded in normal website cookies tracking the source IP, and comparing with the DB of IPs McDonalds has available. > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of William Titler > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:24 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users > Group List; sulrich@botwerks.org > Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > The truth is that many of the big non web companies that are > offering or planning to offer wifi in their stores for pay or > free will be sniffing the traffic so that they can mine the > information of where people go to create better marketing > relationships. They will be using a login page that is not > their own site but say Bestbuy.com with the login for the > wifi network imbedded in the page at McDonalds. By sniffing > the traffic McDonalds can see how long the user stayed on the > site and what they bought so that bestbuy will be paying > appropriately for the marketing. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:49:57 -0500 From: "William Titler" Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. To: "Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree, this is not a tracking to be scared of it is the same that everyone does on their own sites today. Bill -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of John T. Hoffoss Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. Probably, but this isn't nearly as ominous as McDoanlds (btw, this is the SSID of the Dinkytown McDonalds AP) capturing my CC info on said website. In addition, this really isn't any different than what is done with cookies, and in fact, this tracking could probably be embedded in normal website cookies tracking the source IP, and comparing with the DB of IPs McDonalds has available. > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of William Titler > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:24 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users > Group List; sulrich@botwerks.org > Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot > business model curve.. > > The truth is that many of the big non web companies that are > offering or planning to offer wifi in their stores for pay or > free will be sniffing the traffic so that they can mine the > information of where people go to create better marketing > relationships. They will be using a login page that is not > their own site but say Bestbuy.com with the login for the > wifi network imbedded in the page at McDonalds. By sniffing > the traffic McDonalds can see how long the user stayed on the > site and what they bought so that bestbuy will be paying > appropriately for the marketing. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:59:05 -0500 From: Ben Nelson Subject: [TCWUG] Tomorrow Meeting important info! To: "tcwug-list@tcwug.org" , tc-unwired Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry all, but I won?t be at the meeting tomorrow. As attendance has been sparse at the last few meetings, perhaps interested attendees could post their intentions to the list before heading down to the Dunn Bros. That way no one will be stuck there by themselves. For the record: Dunn Bros 201 3rd Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55401 612-692-8530 (on the same block as the Milwaukee Road Depot hotel and skating rink) Map and directions: http://tinyurl.com/79jt Limited parking behind the building, plenty of on-street parking near-by. -- Ben Nelson 612.685.9116 cell benmgroup@earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20040607/6369c 7d4/attachment.htm ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:15:49 -0500 From: steve ulrich Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com, Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List Message-ID: <20040607201548.GA782@botwerks.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > Steve, > > Yeah, snorting traffic on public Websites is a risk that I have been > waiting for corporate America to finally realize. Yet I don't see > T-Mobile exploiting this possible advantage. If I were in charge of > corporate security for a company of any size, I'd forbid employee > use of public Wi-Fi. > forbidding the use of public WiFi networks seems particularly draconian. this is what IPSec is for. you tunnel all of the traffic to your corporate VPN concentrator and don't have to worry about folks sniffing the traffic. hence my remarks regarding the judicious use of crypto. i'm a _very_ mobile worker and i plug into service provider networks all over the place and i tunnel back to the vpn concentrator at corporate or home (depending on what i'm doing) i'm not worried about folks sniffing my traffic. > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of steve ulrich > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:34 PM > To: mellsworth@stratvantage.com; Twin Cities Wireless Users Group List > Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model > curve.. > > when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), > Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > > The most interesting thing I got from this article is T-Mobile's > > claim that it is more secure (and more reliable) than free > > hotspots. Anybody got any idea how they can claim that? I've used > > their service and it wasn't running any security as far as I could > > tell. > > it's not just about link layer security. when you put your traffic > onto an open hotspot from john doe you really don't know what > they're doing with your traffic. it's not in the best interests of > a t-mobile or SP to harvest subscriber traffic for their nefarious > applications. > > i'm not saying that tmobile and other SPs can't sniff your traffic. > but wifi with a branded hotspot probably isn't going to be snorting > all the traffic that goes by. whereas you're more likely taking > your chance with the freebies. > > further, many reputable carriers have the ability to do things like > virus/worm mitigation in their access infrastructure. that's nice > if someone jacks into the same segment and starts to hose you down > with the virus of the day. such mechanisms would not be visible > from the users persepctive. > > as with many things in life if you're going have unprotected packet > exchange, you have risks. if you'd like to mitigate those risks, > slather on the protection with copious amounts of crypto and f/ws. { snipped - misc .signatures } > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces@tcwug.org] > On > > Behalf Of Andy Warner > > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:44 AM > > To: wireless@tc-unwired.net; tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > Subject: [TCWUG] Another point on the wifi hotspot business model curve.. > > > > Apologies in advance if this ends up being one of those > > "subscriber-only" pages that drops you through to a login screen; > > but the NYTimes carried the following article about the growth of > > free hot-spots, contrasted with the fortunes of pay-per-use hot > > spots; along with the struggle to find a sustainable business model > > for the pay-per-use carriers. > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/07/technology/07wifi.html?8hpib=&pagewanted=a { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:19:51 -0500 From: steve ulrich Subject: [TCWUG] Re: [wireless] Tomorrow Meeting important info! To: wireless@lists.tc-unwired.net Cc: "tcwug-list@tcwug.org" , tc-unwired Message-ID: <20040607201951.GB782@botwerks.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii dang! this is the first meeting i'll be able to make in a loooong time. was looking forward to seeing you and other folks there. consider this notification of my intent to attend. :) when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 07, 2004), Ben Nelson was madly tapping out: > Sorry all, but I won?t be at the meeting tomorrow. As attendance has been > sparse at the last few meetings, perhaps interested attendees could post > their intentions to the list before heading down to the Dunn Bros. That way > no one will be stuck there by themselves. > > For the record: > Dunn Bros > 201 3rd Avenue > Minneapolis, MN 55401 > 612-692-8530 > (on the same block as the Milwaukee Road Depot hotel and skating rink) > > Map and directions: http://tinyurl.com/79jt > > Limited parking behind the building, plenty of on-street parking near-by. { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ tcwug-list mailing list tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list End of tcwug-list Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5 **************************************** _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 15 07:17:49 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:31 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] the state of london wireless Message-ID: <20040615121749.GB3041@botwerks.org> if you're interested, there's a very nicely done writeup of the current state of wireless network{s,ing} within the greater london area. there are some interesting stats in the paper, worth the read if you're so inclined. http://informal.org.uk/people/julian/publications/the_state_of_wireless_london/ -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 15 11:35:33 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:32 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] administravia: june-2004 oreilly and assoc. newsletter Message-ID: <20040615163532.GB23878@botwerks.org> all- the most recent iteration of the ORA users group newsletter, if there's something that piques your interest (e.g.: book review oppty, etc.) please drop a line and i'll make the appropriate arrangements. enjoy ... -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC -------------- next part -------------- ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders June 10, 2004 ================================================================ -Have a Virtual Book Signing at Your Next Meeting -We Still Have Expo Hall Passes for Macworld in Boston July 13-15 -Put Up an O'Reilly Open Source Convention Banner, Get a Free Book ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review books are available Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. Allow at least four weeks for shipping. ***Please send copies of your book reviews Email me a copy of your newsletters or book reviews. For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html ***Discount information Don't forget to remind your members about our 20% discount on O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, and Syngress books and O'Reilly conferences. Just use code DSUG. ***Group purchases with better discounts are available Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in touch with our sales department. ---------------------------------------------------------------- General News ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Have a Virtual Book Signing at Your Next Meeting Nitrozac and Snaggy, creators of The Joy of Tech comic and authors of "The Best of the Joy of Tech," have created a unique experience for their fans that they would like to expand to User Groups. In cases where they are unable to appear in person at events, they appear via iChatAV, which allows them to talk and interact with fans, and even sign digital signatures for their "The Best of the Joy of Tech." If you are interested in having this dynamic duo appear via iChatAV at your user group meeting, event, or bookstore, let me know. The Joy of Tech comic: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/index.html Virtual Book Signing Article: http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/04/13/virtualbooksigning.html Samples from a Virtual Book Signing http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joystuff/meetandgeek.html ***Put Up an O'Reilly Open Source Convention Banner, Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our conference banners on their web sites. If you send me the link to your user group site with our O'Reilly Open Source Convention banner, I will send you the book of your choice. OSCON Conference Banners: http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/oscon2004/ ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members June 10, 2004 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -XML Publishing with AxKit -Better, Faster, Lighter Java -Degunking Your Mac -Office 2003 XML -Inside .Mac -BSD Hacks ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Bonnie Biafore ("Online Investing Hacks,") NAIC Compufest 2004, St. Louis, MO--June 17-20 -Derrick Story ("Digital Photography Hacks," "Digital Photography Pocket Guide, 2nd Ed.")and Ken Milburn ("Digital Photography: Expert Techniques"), NBMA-SFDIG Digital Photo Expo, Mil Valley, CA--June 19 -Tim O'Reilly, eBay Developers Conference, New Orleans, LA--June 23-24 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Attending OSCON? Don't Forget to Sign up for the Tutorials! -O'Reilly Open Source Convention Early Bird Discount--Ends June 18 ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Visit with O'Reilly Editors at 2004 USENIX Annual Tech Boston, MA--June 27-July 2 -An Interview with Derrick Story (Digital Photo Hacker at Large) -Paul Graham on Hacking -A Survey of DVD Recording Formats -Free Exhibit Hall Pass for LinuxWorld Conference & Expo, San Francisco, CA -How We Wrote "BSD Hacks" -Inside Mitch Kapor's World -Building a Linux Media PC -Basic Guide to Enterprise Application Distribution -Inside Contextual Menu Items -Troubleshooting Stop Errors -SnagIt: The Ultimate Screen Capture Program -Improving JSF by Dumping JSP -SMS-Powered Applications -What's New in Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition? -C# Iterators ---------------------------------------------------------------- News From Your Peers ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Are you Annoyed? ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. http://www.oreilly.com/ ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***XML Publishing with AxKit Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596002165 "XML Publishing with AxKit" presents web programmers with the knowledge they need to master AxKit, a mod_perl- and Apache-based XML content delivery solution. This book provides detailed information on installing, configuring, and deploying AxKit effectively, and it features a thorough introduction to XSP, which applies the concepts of Server Pages technologies to the XML world. The book also covers integrating AxKit with tools such as Template Toolkit, Apache:: Mason, Apache::ASP, and plain CGI, and it contains reference sections on configuration directives, XpathScript, and XSP. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xmlaxkit/ Chapter 3, "Your First XML Web Site," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xmlaxkit/chapter/index.html ***Better, Faster, Lighter Java Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006764 In this latest O'Reilly Java book, the authors argue that the old heavyweight architectures, such as WebLogic, JBoss, and WebSphere, are unwieldy, complicated, and contribute to slow and buggy application code. As an alternative means for building applications, the authors present two "lightweight" open source architectures, Hibernate and Spring, that can help you create enterprise applications that are easier to maintain, write, and debug, and are ultimately much faster. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bfljava/ The Preface, Chapter 3, "Do One Thing, and Do It Well," and Chapter 10, "Extending jPetStore," are available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bfljava/chapter/index.html ***Degunking Your Mac Publisher: Paraglyph Press ISBN: 1932111948 For optimum performance of any operating system, you need to maintain your computer. And just as cars need regular maintenance, so do Macs. Periodic cleaning of the hard drive, file maintenance, application maintenance, and email maintenance must be done. This is the first book to provide easy, step-by-step information on how to get rid of annoying clutter that can gunk up Macs. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1932111948/ ***Office 2003 XML Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596005385 "Office 2003 XML" explores the relationship between XML and Office 2003, examining how the Office suite of products both produce and consume XML. Developers will learn how to connect Office to others systems, while power users will learn to create and analyze XML documents using familiar Office tools. Beginning with an overview of the XML features included in the Office 2003 components, this book provides quick and clear guidance to anyone who needs to import or export information from Office documents into other systems. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/officexml/ Chapter 2, "The WordprocessingML Vocabulary," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/officexml/chapter/index.html ***Inside .Mac Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596005016 This handy, quick reference offers a clear overview of the entire .Mac package and many of its not-so-obvious features. You'll learn how to set up and manage your account quickly and without fuss. Each .Mac service is discussed in an objective, no-frills fashion that'll show you how to use--and what to expect from--iDisk, web mail, your personal web site, and everything else that .Mac offers. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/indotmac/ Chapter 5, "Using Virex," is available free online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/indotmac/chapter/index.html ***BSD Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006799 Looking for a unique set of practical tips, tricks, and tools for administrators and power users of BSD systems? From hacks on customizing the user environment to networking, securing the system, and optimization, "BSD Hacks" takes a creative approach to saving time and accomplishing more with fewer resources. If you want more than the average BSD user--to explore and experiment, unearth shortcuts, create useful tools--this book is a must-have. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bsdhks/ Five Sample Hacks are available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bsdhks/chapter/index.html ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Bonnie Biafore ("Online Investing Hacks,") NAIC Compufest 2004, St. Louis, MO--June 17-20 Bonnie speaks at the NAIC Compufest conference, an event focusing on computerized investing. Adam Mark Hotel, St. Louis, MO http://www.better-investing.org/chapter/stlouis/events/2671 ***Derrick Story ("Digital Photography Hacks," "Digital Photography Pocket Guide, 2nd Ed.")and Ken Milburn ("Digital Photography: Expert Techniques"), NBMA-SFDIG Digital Photo Expo, Mil Valley, CA--June 19 North Bay Multimedia Association, in collaboration with the San Francisco Digital Imaging Group, is presenting a day devoted to digital photography. O'Reilly will be one of the vendors on hand. 12-5 pm, Saturday, June 19 Mill Valley Community Center, Mill Valley, CA Free to NBMA & SFDIG members; $15 for non-members; $10 for students with valid ID. http://www.nbma.com/events/DPE.html ***Tim O'Reilly, eBay Developers Conference, New Orleans, LA--June 23-24 Tim presents the opening keynote at this annual event for eBay and PayPal developers. Tim and eBay founder and chairman Pierre Omidyar will also sit down for a "fireside chat" Q&A session during the conference. New Orleans,LA http://developer.ebay.com/DevProgram/ ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***Attending OSCON? Don't Forget to Sign up for the Tutorials! Check out: David Sklar's "Learning PHP" http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/view/e_sess/5064 A. Elein Mustain's "Introduction to PostgreSQL" http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/view/e_sess/5035 Greg Sabino Mullane's "How to Play Together Nicely: Strategies for DBAs and Application Developers" http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/view/e_sess/5362 "Geoffrey Young's "Programming the Apache Lifecycle" http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/view/e_sess/5082 For the complete list of tutorials, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/29/tutorials.html ***O'Reilly Open Source Convention Early Bird Discount--Ends June 18 User Group members who register before June 18, 2004 get a double discount. Use code DSUG when you register, and you'll get 20% off the "Early Bird" price. To register, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/create/ord_os04 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Portland Marriott Downtown Portland, OR July 26-30, 2004 http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***Visit with O'Reilly Editors at 2004 USENIX Annual Tech, Boston, MA--June 27-July 2 Come visit O'Reilly in the Partner Publisher Suite June 28-30. This conference includes: 6 days of training; renowned plenary speakers every morning; technical sessions every day; daily SIG sessions; and General and Freenix/Open Source refereed papers. Free exhibit & BOF registration available online. The early registration discount has been extended to June 14th. The conference runs June 27-July 2 in Boston, MA. http://www.usenix.org/usenix04/ ***An Interview with Derrick Story (Digital Photo Hacker at Large) Over the years, photography and the technology behind it have provided plenty of material for creative thinkers, making it a natural fit for the hacker spirit. In this interview with Derrick Story, O'Reilly's resident photo hacker, he talks about the direction of digital imaging, what makes it cool, and new ways that you can push the limits of your photography. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/06/08/photography.html ***Paul Graham on Hacking Paul Graham is a hacker, painter, and essayist known as much for his thoughtful writings on spam, hacking, and Lisp as for creating the Arc programming language. In this interview with the O'Reilly Network, Paul discusses hacking, creativity, computer science education, and language design. Paul is the author of a just-released collection of his essays, "Hackers & Painters." http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2004/05/27/paul_graham_interview.html ***A Survey of DVD Recording Formats Wei-Meng Lee writes of his quest for the right DVD writer to buy. After surveying the various DVD recording formats (DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD-RAM, and DVD-RW DL), as well as some of the DVD writers currently available on the market, Wei-Meng offers his recommendations. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/news/dvdwriters_0504.html --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Free Exhibit Hall Pass for LinuxWorld Conference & Expo, San Francisco, CA--August 3-5 Register online by July 2, 2004 with PRIORITY CODE: B0601 to receive your free Exhibit Hall pass. To register, go to: http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/live/12/register///CC798223 ***How We Wrote "BSD Hacks" Most technical book authors seem to use Microsoft Word to write their books, but what if you wanted to use open source tools to write and edit your book? chromatic writes about how he and author Dru Lavigne used PseudoPOD and Subversion to collaborate, write, edit, and produce O'Reilly's latest Hacks book offering, "BSD Hacks." http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/06/03/bsdhacks.html ***Inside Mitch Kapor's World Mitch Kapor has had a huge influence on the software world, being the founder of Lotus and a driving force behind 1-2-3. Now his Open Software Applications Foundation is working on Chandler, an open source PIM written in Python. In this O'Reilly Network interview, Mitch talks about his life and career, the OSAF, Chandler, open source, and Python. Mitch will present a Developer's Tour of Chandler at this summer's Open Source Convention. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/06/03/mitch_kapor_interview.html ***Building a Linux Media PC What do DVDs, CDs, TV stations, and video games have in common? Besides the fact that they require bulky equipment that takes up precious space in your living room, you can play them all on a PC running Linux. John Littler introduces the Linux media PC, a media convergence device. http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/05/27/linux_media_pc.html --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Basic Guide to Enterprise Application Distribution Keeping your software updated on your diverse Mac network requires attention to detail and perseverance. In this article, Philip Rinehart shows you options for tracking installations on your business or educational network. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/06/08/enterprise.html ***Inside Contextual Menu Items In the first article, Steven Disbrow describes handy power user tips for two-button mousing on Mac OS X. In part two he shows you how to create your own CMIs using Xcode. Part One: http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/05/28/cm_pt1.html Part Two: http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/06/04/cm_pt2.html --------------------- Windows --------------------- ***Troubleshooting Stop Errors What to do when the Blue Screen of Death appears? Mitch Tulloch, author of "Windows Server Hacks," offers five tips on troubleshooting Stop error messages. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/06/08/stop_errors.html ***SnagIt: The Ultimate Screen Capture Program Need to capture screens in Windows? Forget the built-in Print Screen feature--it's just about useless. Instead, get SnagIt, the ultimate screen capture program. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/06/08/snagit.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Improving JSF by Dumping JSP JSF is a great technology for complex web application interfaces. But Hans Bergsten urges you not to give up on JSF just because the JSP layer is flawed; using a custom ViewHandler resolves all of the issues. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/06/09/jsf.html ***SMS-Powered Applications SMS (short message service) is ubiquitous in the small device space, and offers a means of sending and receiving messages from even the simplest mobile phone. Dejan Bosanac looks at how Java can be made to work with SMS. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/06/09/sms.html --------------------- .NET --------------------- ***What's New in Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition? What's new, what's hot, and what's not in Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (SE)? Wei-Meng Lee gives you the rundown on everything from graphics support to new form factors and dual display modes. Wei-Meng is the author of ".NET Compact Framework Pocket Guide." http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/06/01/winserver2003.html ***C# Iterators If you are creating a class that looks and behaves like a collection, it is handy to allow your users to iterate through the members of your collection with the foreach statement. This is easier to do in C# 2.0 than it is in 1.1. In this new column by Jesse Liberty, he shows you what is coming up in .NET 2.0 to make this common task easier. http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2004/06/07/liberty.html ================================================ News From Your Peers ================================================ ***Are you Annoyed? Want to share your annoyances with O'Reilly? Check out the Help O'Reilly page on the UG wiki--we are still looking for submissions. http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/create?HelpOReilly Until next time-- Marsee -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 29 10:04:12 2004 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:34:32 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] administravia: oreilly newsletter (25-jun, 2004) Message-ID: <20040629150404.GC18499@botwerks.org> all- attached is the latest iteration of the oreilly and associated user group(s) newsletter. questions? drop a line. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC -------------- next part -------------- ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders June 25, 2004 ================================================================ -Does your group have a Digital Media Special Interest Group? -Want to share O'Reilly's UG program with other groups? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review books are available Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. Allow at least four weeks for shipping. ***Please send copies of your book reviews Email me a copy of your newsletters or book reviews. For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html ***Discount information Don't forget to remind your members about our 20% discount on O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, and Syngress books and O'Reilly conferences. Just use code DSUG. ***Group purchases with better discounts are available Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in touch with our sales department. ---------------------------------------------------------------- General News ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Does your group have a Digital Media Special Interest Group? Let me know and I will send you a set of our digital photo books to share with them. ***Want to share O'Reilly's UG program with other groups? Here is a PDF flyer with the all details: http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/ug_invite_flyer.pdf ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members June 25, 2004 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Programming Jakarta Struts, 2nd Edition -The Best Damn Windows 2003 Server Book -Java Cookbook, 2nd Edition -Google: The Missing Manual -Richard Thieme's Islands in the Clickstream -CYA: Securing IIS 6.0 -CYA: Securing Exchange Server 2003 & Outlook Web Access ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Apple WWDC, San Francisco, CA--June 28-July 2 -JavaOne, San Francisco, CA--June 28-July 1 -Edd Dumbill ("Linux Unwired"), GNOME User and Developer European Conference, Kristiansand, Norway--June 28-30 -James Duncan Davidson ("Mac OS X Panther Hacks," "Running Mac OS X Panther"), Apple Store, San Francisco, CA--June 30 -Steve Bass ("PC Annoyances"), Anchorage Borders, Anchorage, AK--July 7 -Steve Bass ("PC Annoyances"), Alaska Computer Society PC Users Group, Anchorage, AK--July 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -O'Reilly Open Source Convention User Group Discount ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Don't forget--Visit with O'Reilly Editors at 2004 USENIX Annual Tech Boston, MA--June 27-July 2 -O'Reilly Network Launches eDocuments -The Open Source Paradigm Shift -A Linux Quick Reference to Useful Commands -The Pragmatic Programmers Interview -Voice Recording Magic with the iPod -RSS: The Next Generation -A Brief Introduction to GPS Photo Linking -Windows Server Hacks: Using Saved Queries to Find Locked Accounts -Easily Purge Spyware, Adware, and Other Malware -Using a JMS Provider with MDBs via the J2EE Connector Architecture -Working with Hibernate in Eclipse -SP.NET Forms Security by Jesse Liberty ---------------------------------------------------------------- News From Your Peers ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Share your Group's Secrets to Success on the O'Reilly UG Wiki. ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. http://www.oreilly.com/ ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Programming Jakarta Struts, 2nd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006519 "Programming Jakarta Struts, 2nd Edition" covers everything the successful first edition did and more. Now fully up to date with Struts 1.1, this new edition covers the latest material on tag libraries and the new JavaServerFaces (JSF) APIs, and it includes all-new chapters on JSF, JSTL/EL, and security. This book will save you time and headaches with its practical, here's-how-to-do-it approach to using the Struts Framework to its fullest potential. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0596006519/ Chapter 11, "The Validator Framework," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0596006519/chapter/index.html ***The Best Damn Windows 2003 Server Book Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1931836124 Windows Server 2003 has more features and functionality in any one of its component services than existed in the entire Windows NT 4 operating system. This book distills the tens of thousands of pages of documentation for this complex enterprise OS into a concise, applied format that system administrators can use. Every aspect of planning, installing, configuring, and troubleshooting a Windows Server 2003 network is documented, with plenty of examples and illustrations. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1931836124/ ***Java Cookbook, 2nd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007019 "Java Cookbook, 2nd Edition" has been completely revised and updated to cover all the major APIs from Java 1.4 as well as significant first-look recipes for the most important features of the new 1.5 version. Packed with hundreds of tried-and-true Java recipes, the book also covers many specialized APIs--like those for working with Struts, Ant, and other open source tools--and delivers expanded Mac OS X Panther coverage. This comprehensive collection of problems, solutions, and practical examples will serve well Java developers at all levels of expertise. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0596007019/ Chapter 8, "Data Structuring with Generics, foreach, and Enumerations (JDK 1.5)," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0596007019/chapter/index.html ***Google: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006136 Google, the planet's most popular program for finding stuff on the web, has no manual. It may seem like an easy-to-use program, but Google has many hidden tricks and tools that can turn your simple searching into powerful--and successful--discoveries. You just have to know where to look. This book is your guide, covering search techniques and tricks, must-have tools, and those little-known corners of Google. Get more out of your Google searches with this friendly deskside companion. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/googletmm/ Chapter 3, "Googling Further: Images, News, and the Directory," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/googletmm/chapter/index.html ***Richard Thieme's Islands in the Clickstream Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1931836221 "Islands in the Clickstream" is a series of thousand-word essays exploring social and cultural dimensions of technology and the larger concerns of our lives. Their focus ranges beyond the impact of technology to spirituality, psychological insight, and social commentary. The author's credibility and work as a professional speaker immersed in technology who was also an Episcopal priest for sixteen years provides a perfect platform for supporting the book. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1931836221/ ***CYA: Securing IIS 6.0 Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1931836256 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1931836256/ ***CYA: Securing Exchange Server 2003 & Outlook Web Access Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1931836248 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1931836248/ The CYA series are highly portable, easily digestible road-maps to configuring, maintaining and troubleshooting essential features, assuring that the reader has in fact covered their behind. ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Apple WWDC, San Francisco, CA--June 28-July 2 We'll have a great new selection of Mac developers books to choose from at this show. Moscone West Convention Center http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/ ***JavaOne, San Francisco, CA--June 28-July 1 Drop by our booth (#1416) to check out our latest Java offerings. Moscone Center, San Francisco, CA http://java.sun.com/javaone/ ***Edd Dumbill ("Linux Unwired"), GNOME User and Developer European Conference, Kristiansand, Norway--June 28-30 Author Edd Dumbill (Linux Unwired) speaks at the fifth annual GUADEC. Agder University College, Kristiansand, Norway http://2004.guadec.org/ ***James Duncan Davidson ("Mac OS X Panther Hacks," "Running Mac OS X Panther"), Apple Store, San Francisco, CA--June 30 James is a special guest speaker at the SF Apple Store, telling his story as a Java developer moving to the Mac and becoming a Cocoa developer. http://www.apple.com/retail/sanfrancisco/ ***Steve Bass ("PC Annoyances"), Anchorage Borders, Anchorage, AK--July 7, 2004 Steve visits the Anchorage Borders beginning at 7:00 p.m. Stop by to say hello and get your very own copy signed! http://www.bordersstores.com/stores/store_pg.jsp?storeID=88 ***Steve Bass ("PC Annoyances"), Alaska Computer Society PC Users Group, Anchorage, AK--July 8 Join Steve at the ACSPCUG monthly meeting. http://www.acs-pcug.org/index.htm ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***O'Reilly Open Source Convention User Group Discount User Group use code DSUG when you register, and you'll get 20% To register, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/create/ord_os04 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Portland Marriott Downtown Portland, OR July 26-30, 2004 http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***Don't forget--Visit with O'Reilly Editors at 2004 USENIX Annual Tech Boston, MA--June 27-July 2 Come visit O'Reilly in the Partner Publisher Suite June 28-30. This conference includes: 6 days of training; renowned plenary speakers every morning; technical sessions every day; daily SIG sessions; and General and Freenix/Open Source refereed papers. Free exhibit & BOF registration available online. The conference runs June 27-July 2 in Boston, MA. http://www.usenix.org/usenix04/ ***O'Reilly Network Launches eDocuments Affordable, downloadable PDFs of premium O'Reilly Network content are now available covering topics such as digital media, Java versus .NET security, and web services, with new titles to be added regularly. There are no restrictions on your ability to save, copy, or print these documents, and you can instantly download a PDF from your O'Reilly account management page once you've purchased it online. For a closer look at our first batch of offerings, visit edocuments.oreilly.com/. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5112 ***Got an Gmail invite to share? Listen to Wil Wheaton ("Just a Geek") on the David Lawrence Show discussing his new project gmail4troops.com, which makes it easy to donate Google Gmail accounts to the US troops overseas. http://thedavidlawrenceshow.com/002007.html Just a Geek By Wil Wheaton Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600768X http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jag/ --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***The Open Source Paradigm Shift Tim O'Reilly writes about the lessons to be learned from the Open Source Movement in this article based on a talk he first gave at the Warburg-Pincus technology conference in May 2003. Find out why Tim says the open source story is far from over. http://tim.oreilly.com/opensource/paradigmshift_0504.html For more of Tim's writings, pay a visit to tim.oreilly.com. ***A Linux Quick Reference to Useful Commands Daniel J. Barrett, author of O'Reilly's "Linux Pocket Guide," has compiled a quick-reference guide to the most essential Linux commands and the tasks they perform. We are presenting this quick reference as a PDF download. Print it and keep it by your keyboard for quick answers to problems that arise. http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/excerpt/LinuxPG_quickref/index.html ***The Pragmatic Programmers Interview The Pragmatic Programmers, Andy Hunt and Dave Thomas, recently launched their own line of books on pragmatic software development. Since O'Reilly distributes their books, we convinced them to do an interview about self-publishing, the state of the software industry, and how to become better developers. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2004/06/24/pragmatic_programmers.html ***The Pragmatic Bookshelf: Pragmatic Unit Testing in C# with NUnit ISBN: 0974514020 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0974514020/ Pragmatic Unit Testing in Java with JUnit ISBN: 0974514012 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0974514012/ Pragmatic Version Control using CVS ISBN: 0974514004 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/0974514004/ --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Voice Recording Magic with the iPod Everyone knows that the iPod plays music unlike any other device, but many don't realize that it records clean audio, too. Here's a handy tutorial that shows you how to get started, then challenges your creativity with some nifty ideas about how to use these tools. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/06/22/ipod_recorder.html ***RSS: The Next Generation Syndicated summaries of web content are more popular than ever before, and the recent explosion of users has prompted some dramatic changes in the world of RSS software. Giles Turnbull takes a look at some of the latest offerings, including PulpFiction, Shrook, and of course, NetNewsWire. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/06/15/rss.html ***A Brief Introduction to GPS Photo Linking Digital cameras record EXIF data that tells us when we took a picture, but what if we want to know where too? David Goldwasser introduces us to using GPS positioning data with EXIF timestamps to build interactive maps showing pictures of markers. Typical of the kinds of hacks David contributed to O'Reilly's recently released "Digital Photography Hacks." http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/06/15/gps_photo.html --------------------- Windows --------------------- ***Windows Server Hacks: Using Saved Queries to Find Locked Accounts Locked accounts can represent a serious security hole on your network. Mitch Tulloch, author of "Windows Server Hacks," shows you how to use saved queries to find them. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/06/22/locked_accounts.html ***Easily Purge Spyware, Adware, and Other Malware Think you're protected against spyware? Most likely you're not. J.W. Olsen reviews two of the best spyware killers you'll find anywhere: Ad-aware and Spybot. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/06/22/Spyware.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Using a JMS Provider with MDBs via the J2EE Connector Architecture Message-Driven Beans (MDBs) get a big boost in J2EE 1.4 via integration with the J2EE Connector Architecture (JCA), which opens up interesting possibilities to use messaging to and from legacy systems. Debu Panda shows how this can be accomplished. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/06/23/mdbjca.html ***Working with Hibernate in Eclipse Jim Elliott was curious about whether anyone had written plugins to work with Hibernate in Eclispe, as he'd just finished writing "Hibernate: A Developer's Notebook." It turns out there are several such efforts underway. In this article, Jim explores Hibernate Synchronizer--a plugin that automatically updates your Java code when you change your mapping document. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/06/23/hibernate.html --------------------- .NET --------------------- ***SP.NET Forms Security Jesse Liberty shows how easy it is to provide forms-based security via login screens and authentication in Whidbey. http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2004/06/14/liberty_whidbey.html ================================================ News From Your Peers ================================================ ***Share your Group's Secrets to Success on the O'Reilly UG Wiki List you tricks and experiences to share: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/null?UGSuggestions Until next time-- Marsee -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list