From becca at ilsr.org  Tue Feb 21 09:25:07 2006
From: becca at ilsr.org (Becca Vargo Daggett)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:25:07 -0600
Subject: [tcwug-list] TIME CHANGE: Public Testimony,
	Citywide Wireless Initiative
Message-ID: <0BCFC676-1289-4B3E-8BB5-B5AE5B90A818@ilsr.org>

Late on Friday afternoon, the "time certain" for public testimony was  
changed from 1:45 to 2:45.

Business Information Services (BIS)

Public Testimony - Time Certain: 2:45 p.m.

26. Minneapolis Wireless Broadband Initiative:

a) Approve Business Case to pursue a private-public partnership to  
procure Broadband Data Access Services to support the City's internal  
data communications requirements and provide affordable broadband  
internet services to City residents and businesses;

b) Authorize proper City officers to implement the pilot phase of the  
Broadband IP Data Access Services program with the two RFP finalists,  
Earthlink and U.S. Internet; and

c) Authorize proper City officers to negotiate a contract for  
Broadband IP Data Access Services with one or both of the RFP  
finalists and to return to Council for final approval.


Becca Vargo Daggett
Research Associate, New Rules Project, Insitute for Local Self- 
Reliance, http://www.newrules.org
612-379-3815 x209, becca at ilsr.org, Mobile: 651.283.1850



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From kaze0010 at umn.edu  Tue Feb 21 19:22:57 2006
From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:22:57 -0600
Subject: [tcwug-list] Municipal Wireless in Minneapolis (and meetings in
 St.Paul on 2/22 and 2/27 about St.Paul muni wireless)
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20060221192257.05a3d708@127.0.0.1>

This is from the Saint Paul Issues list.  I plan to attend the Wednesday
meeting in St.Paul.  I think I would like to see something along the lines
of Chaska.net done in Saint Paul.

>X-Original-To: stpaul-issues at forums.e-democracy.org
>Delivered-To: e-democracy.org-special at orange.iopen.net
>Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:08:38 -0600
>From: "Lee Helgen" <Lee.Helgen at ci.stpaul.mn.us>
>To: <stpaul-issues at forums.e-democracy.org>
>List-Id: stpaul-issues
>List-Post: mailto:stpaul-issues at forums.e-democracy.org
>X-Loop: stpaul-issues at forums.e-democracy.org
>X-Beenthere: stpaul-issues at forums.e-democracy.org
>X-Mailer: MailBoxer
>Subject: Re: [SPIF] Municipal Wireless in Minneapolis
>
>The City of St. Paul has contracted with Springsted to conduct a
>broadband technology needs assessment and economic development study
>(BITS).  
>
>As part of the study, there are two public forums to gather input.
>
>Wednesday, February 22 from 7:00 to 9:00 pm at the Hillcrest Rec. Center
>Monday, February 27 from 7:00 to 9:00 pm at the Dayton's Bluff Rec.
>Center
>
>For more info check out the city's website at www.stpaul.gov
>
>Lee Helgen
>Councilmember - Ward 5
>
>
>
>>>> "Timothy J. Salo" <salo at saloits.com> 02/18/06 3:21 PM >>>
>Those of you interested in the possibility of a citywide WiFi network
>in Saint Paul may be interested in what is about to happen in 
>Minneapolis.
>
>As I am sure you all know by now, Minneapolis decided to purchase
>network services to meet its own internal needs, rather than build
>and operate its own network.  Minneapolis wanted the selected vendor
>to also make wireless broadband services available to Minneapolis
>residents and businesses.
>
>A very vocal group has argued that Minneapolis should own and operate
>this network, rather than permitting an outside company to provide these
>services.  This group has been successful in convincing the Minneapolis
>City Council Ways and Means Committee that it should accept public
>testimony on ownership models for the Minneapolis wireless broadband
>network.  The Ways and Means Committee will meet Tuesday, February
>21.  Here's the agenda:
>
>  
>http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/council/2006-meetings/20060224/WMagenda2006
0221.asp
>
>This debate _may_ be a preview of similar discussions that might happen
>as Saint Paul.  There might be a few differences, however:
>
>o	Minneapolis is fairly far along in its process towards buying
>	network services.  It has issued an RFP, received proposals,
>	down-selected to two vendors, and is about to start field
>trials.
>	It seems sort of late in the game for proponents of municipally
>	owned networks to insist that the city stop this process and
>	start all over again.
>
>o	Minneapolis outsourced its information technology operations
>	in 2002, (http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/itsoutsourcingrfp/).
>	As far as I know, Saint Paul hasn't outsourced its IT operations
>	to this extent, and so may be better equipped to own and operate
>	its own network.
>
>Personally, I believe that it is preferable that discussions about
>public versus private ownership occur earlier in the process, rather
>than late in the game as they are in Minneapolis.  I anticipate that
>Saint Paul will provide a nice forum for this debate.
>
>-tjs 
>
>Tim Salo
>Macalester-Groveland/Dinkytown
>More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/stpaul/contacts/timsalo
>
>- - - - - - - - - - -
>To leave St. Paul Issues Forum, 
>email stpaul-issues at forums.e-democracy.org with "unsubscribe" as the
>subject
>
>This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/88765
>
>For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
>http://forums.e-democracy.org/stpaul/groups/stpaul-issues/
>
>Citizens Guide to St. Paul
>http://e-democracy.org/wiki/Citizens_Guide_to_St._Paul
>
>Hosted by http://e-democracy.org
>
>- - - - - - - - - - -
>Questions about rules violations? Send complaints and items 
>for investigation to: stpaul-fm at e-democracy.org
>- - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>Lee Helgen
>
>More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/stpaul/contacts/leehelgen
>
>- - - - - - - - - - -
>To leave St. Paul Issues Forum, 
>email stpaul-issues at forums.e-democracy.org with "unsubscribe" as the subject
>
>This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/88816
>
>For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
>http://forums.e-democracy.org/stpaul/groups/stpaul-issues/
>
>Citizens Guide to St. Paul
>http://e-democracy.org/wiki/Citizens_Guide_to_St._Paul
>
>Hosted by http://e-democracy.org
>
>- - - - - - - - - - -
>Questions about rules violations? Send complaints and items 
>for investigation to: stpaul-fm at e-democracy.org
>- - - - - - - - - - -
>
>


From becca at ilsr.org  Sat Feb 25 11:59:24 2006
From: becca at ilsr.org (Becca Vargo Daggett)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:59:24 -0600
Subject: [tcwug-list] Saint Paul Public Forums on Broadband
Message-ID: <F8E14A14-1CA1-4637-974B-4DB182B30108@ilsr.org>

Saint Paul is holding two "Public Forums on Broadband Technology."  
Unfortunately, they haven't done a very good job of getting the word  
out. Only 20 or so people attended the February 22 forum.

The next forum is this coming Monday, February 27, from 7 to 9 pm at  
the Dayton's Bluff Recreation Center, 800 Conway Street, Saint Paul.

Details at http://www.stpaul.gov/depts/ot/wifi.html

It's fun. Really. You get to register your opinion, using an  
interactive device, on current Internet services and future needs.  
Then you can talk about your response.

This is a chance for Saint Paul residents to participate in planning  
their city's information future - an opportunity that was denied to  
Minneapolis residents.

So spread the word to all your Saint Paul friends and acquaintances.

Becca Vargo Daggett
Seward, Minneapolis
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From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com  Sat Feb 25 22:38:17 2006
From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (mgenelin@fastcomputerserviceco.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:38:17 -0600
Subject: [tcwug-list] Saint Paul Public Forums on Broadband
In-Reply-To: <F8E14A14-1CA1-4637-974B-4DB182B30108@ilsr.org>
Message-ID: <JEENKGJLEICIJLPHMHAFMEEMDKAA.mgenelin@fastcomputerserviceco.com>

Hey gang-

I was kind of disappointed by the conversation at the Feb 22, 2006 meeting.
I expected a debate about whether St. Paul should be in the Wifi business.
What happened instead was a hour long meeting about "what can we do with
high speed internet." While that's an interesting meeting on it's own, it
came off more like a sales-pitch to the citizens of St. Paul (which includes
me) rather then a real discussion about how city-wide Wifi will change our
lives.

Regards,
---Matthew Genelin---
Fast Computer Service Co.
612.605.5382
  -----Original Message-----
  From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On
Behalf Of Becca Vargo Daggett
  Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:59 AM
  To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org
  Subject: [tcwug-list] Saint Paul Public Forums on Broadband


  Saint Paul is holding two "Public Forums on Broadband Technology."
Unfortunately, they haven't done a very good job of getting the word out.
Only 20 or so people attended the February 22 forum.


  The next forum is this coming Monday, February 27, from 7 to 9 pm at the
Dayton's Bluff Recreation Center, 800 Conway Street, Saint Paul.


  Details at http://www.stpaul.gov/depts/ot/wifi.html


  It's fun. Really. You get to register your opinion, using an interactive
device, on current Internet services and future needs. Then you can talk
about your response.


  This is a chance for Saint Paul residents to participate in planning their
city's information future - an opportunity that was denied to Minneapolis
residents.


  So spread the word to all your Saint Paul friends and acquaintances.


  Becca Vargo Daggett
  Seward, Minneapolis
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From kaze0010 at umn.edu  Mon Feb 27 01:00:52 2006
From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 01:00:52 -0600
Subject: [tcwug-list] Saint Paul Public Forums on Broadband
In-Reply-To: <JEENKGJLEICIJLPHMHAFMEEMDKAA.mgenelin@fastcomputerservicec o.com>
References: <F8E14A14-1CA1-4637-974B-4DB182B30108@ilsr.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20060227010052.0592d318@127.0.0.1>

I hope that things go more in the direction of city-wide wifi, and I think
VOIP on PDAs (and on UMA cell phone devices in the near future) is a good
reason to go towards a wifi broadband solution rather than tearing up the
streets for more copper or fiber.

-hk

P.S. there is a Saint Paul Issues Forum/mailing list at
http://forums.e-democracy.org/stpaul/groups/stpaul-issues/ that has some
posts on this topic as well.

At 10:38 PM 2/25/2006 -0600, mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com wrote: 
>>>>
Hey gang-
  
I was kind of disappointed by the conversation at the Feb 22, 2006 meeting.
I expected a debate about whether St. Paul should be in the Wifi business.
What happened instead was a hour long meeting about "what can we do with
high speed internet." While that's an interesting meeting on it's own, it
came off more like a sales-pitch to the citizens of St. Paul (which
includes me) rather then a real discussion about how city-wide Wifi will
change our lives.
  
Regards,
---Matthew Genelin---
Fast Computer Service Co.
612.605.5382
 -----Original Message-----
From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On
Behalf Of Becca Vargo Daggett
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:59 AM
To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org
Subject: [tcwug-list] Saint Paul Public Forums on Broadband

 Saint Paul is holding two "Public Forums on Broadband Technology."
Unfortunately, they haven't done a very good job of getting the word out.
Only 20 or so people attended the February 22 forum.
 
 The next forum is this coming Monday, February 27, from 7 to 9 pm at the
Dayton's Bluff Recreation Center, 800 Conway Street, Saint Paul. 
 
 Details at
<http://www.stpaul.gov/depts/ot/wifi.html>http://www.stpaul.gov/depts/ot/wif
i.html
 
 It's fun. Really. You get to register your opinion, using an interactive
device, on current Internet services and future needs. Then you can talk
about your response.
 
 This is a chance for Saint Paul residents to participate in planning their
city's information future - an opportunity that was denied to Minneapolis
residents.
 
 So spread the word to all your Saint Paul friends and acquaintances.
 
 Becca Vargo Daggett
 Seward, Minneapolis
_______________________________________________ 
Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
Minnesota 
tcwug-list at tcwug.org 
http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list 

<<<<




From becca at ilsr.org  Mon Feb 27 09:42:40 2006
From: becca at ilsr.org (Becca Vargo Daggett)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:42:40 -0600
Subject: [tcwug-list] Saint Paul Public Forums on Broadband
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20060227010052.0592d318@127.0.0.1>
References: <F8E14A14-1CA1-4637-974B-4DB182B30108@ilsr.org>
	<3.0.5.32.20060227010052.0592d318@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9CA200E5-DDAF-4190-8E1D-6C13E1EDF40A@ilsr.org>

On Feb 27, 2006, at 1:00 AM, Haudy Kazemi wrote:

> I hope that things go more in the direction of city-wide wifi, and  
> I think
> VOIP on PDAs (and on UMA cell phone devices in the near future) is  
> a good
> reason to go towards a wifi broadband solution rather than tearing  
> up the
> streets for more copper or fiber.

One of the things they're doing is mapping existing resources,  
including fiber. My understanding is that St. Paul is in a relatively  
good position in terms of existing dark fiber and conduit.
The instructions from the council direct the consultants to come up  
with three recommendations encompassing both the best combination of  
technologies for the city, and on the best business model. Thanks to  
Councilor Thune, the consultants are also directed to explain the  
other models they evaluated and why they were not recommended.

> At 10:38 PM 2/25/2006 -0600, mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com wrote:
>>>>>
> Hey gang-
>
> I was kind of disappointed by the conversation at the Feb 22, 2006  
> meeting.
> I expected a debate about whether St. Paul should be in the Wifi  
> business.
> What happened instead was a hour long meeting about "what can we do  
> with
> high speed internet." While that's an interesting meeting on it's  
> own, it
> came off more like a sales-pitch to the citizens of St. Paul (which
> includes me) rather then a real discussion about how city-wide Wifi  
> will
> change our lives.

I understand your concern, but I think that stemmed from the need to  
gather input in some relatively organized fashion. They didn't know  
what the knowledge level in the room would be (it turned out to be  
quite high). And they truly have not made any decisions yet about  
what form this will all take.
This is just the start of the process, so I encourage you to stay  
involved and voice your comments and concerns at every opportunity.  
If you're a business owner, find out about the business fora. And be  
ready to comment on the report when it is released in April. That's  
the only way City Hall can know that citizens are thinking about all  
this.

Becca Vargo Daggett
Insitute for Local Self-Reliance, http://www.newrules.org