From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 00:41:31 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 00:41:31 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A4A7FDF.4040307@fngi.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Tom Poe > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:13 PM > To: Tim Wilson > Cc: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking > > > Tim Wilson wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > > > It's good to see a little life breathed into this list. > > > > I'm looking for some information about the latest technology that > > could be used to implement a mesh network in the neighborhood around a > > fixed address like a school. The goal would be to provide free > > Internet access primarily for apartment residents. > > > > -Tim > > > > > Just saw message from S. Earl Jarosh, who is managing two projects and > mentioned Meraki. Www.open-mesh.com is a non-profit spinoff of Meraki. > Two ideal solutions that I would recommend. A one-time fee of $50 per > unit (or less), and one or two Internet access point, which cost each > month can be shared. Telcos hate that! > Tom Many members don't live or work in Minneapolis and have little interest in any fee-bearing or restricted access systems there. I have less than zero interest, and would have even less interest in programs or discussion of such. FWIW, my interests are in small-group and DIY systems, not municipal facilities. The last efforts at municipal systems seem to be what killed the group. There's no way "as a group" to be involved in any public or municipal projects (gotta be a non-profit org to have any recognition or responsibility etc), so there doesn't seem to be any way to sustain having a municipal project group provide ongoing TCWUG programs and activities. Best that we try to recognize what sorts of things may be sustainable by or in TCWUG. Chuck From tompoe at fngi.net Wed Jul 1 01:33:54 2009 From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:33:54 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4B0352.9020102@fngi.net> Chuck Cole wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org >> [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Tom Poe >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:13 PM >> To: Tim Wilson >> Cc: tcwug-list at tcwug.org >> Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking >> >> >> Tim Wilson wrote: >> >>> Hey everyone, >>> >>> It's good to see a little life breathed into this list. >>> >>> I'm looking for some information about the latest technology that >>> could be used to implement a mesh network in the neighborhood around a >>> fixed address like a school. The goal would be to provide free >>> Internet access primarily for apartment residents. >>> >>> -Tim >>> >>> >>> >> Just saw message from S. Earl Jarosh, who is managing two projects and >> mentioned Meraki. Www.open-mesh.com is a non-profit spinoff of Meraki. >> Two ideal solutions that I would recommend. A one-time fee of $50 per >> unit (or less), and one or two Internet access point, which cost each >> month can be shared. Telcos hate that! >> Tom >> > > > Many members don't live or work in Minneapolis and have little interest in any fee-bearing or restricted access systems there. I > have less than zero interest, and would have even less interest in programs or discussion of such. FWIW, my interests are in > small-group and DIY systems, not municipal facilities. > > The last efforts at municipal systems seem to be what killed the group. There's no way "as a group" to be involved in any public or > municipal projects (gotta be a non-profit org to have any recognition or responsibility etc), so there doesn't seem to be any way to > sustain having a municipal project group provide ongoing TCWUG programs and activities. Best that we try to recognize what sorts of > things may be sustainable by or in TCWUG. > > > Chuck > > > Open-Mesh is a group of volunteers dedicated to community-owned WiFi, not owned or controlled by any one corporate entity. https://www.open-mesh.com/store/categories.php?category=Who-is-%22Open%252dMesh%22%3F From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 03:50:23 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 03:50:23 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A4B0352.9020102@fngi.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Poe [mailto:tompoe at fngi.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:34 AM > To: Chuck Cole > Cc: TCWUG-List; wilson at visi.com > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking > > > > > Open-Mesh is a group of volunteers dedicated to community-owned WiFi, > not owned or controlled by any one corporate entity. > https://www.open-mesh.com/store/categories.php?category=Who-is-%22Open%252dMesh%22%3F I assume that's true, but it seems quite irrelevant for TCWUG except the coincidence that it has the same no control or out-of control nonentity form. By that definition of org, TCWUG could not qualify for or get corporate support or donations, so it's all out-of-pocket, and a very limited uphill struggle. Seems like a grand loser for TCWUG activities. Maybe fine in a venue of its own, but seems very wrong for the basic purpose of TCWUG, a "user group". Otherwise, it's just a black hole that consumes all time and doesn't seem to have any predictable quality benefits. My cell phone gives me high speed internet access over national scale, and for free. Volunteers will have power outages and ISP downtime, so the average "availability state" of such a mesh would be "irregular" on good days. I see no benefit at all for my interests. A Minneapolis mesh probably wouldn't provide regular connections to in Apple Valley, Stillwater, Plymouth or Owatonna and between those points. I still believe making mesh or similar large scale utility activities is a good way to kill any interest in TCWUG. Certainly kills mine: 1) I'm not interested in mesh or public utilities. 2) at no time would there be predictable "homogeneous regular mesh" connectivity over the greater TC area. 3) Always heterogeneous over significant areas, but operational specs probably based upon homogeneity. 4) special topic developer interest seems OT for TCWUG "user group" interests. 5) doesn't mitigate any stated present deficiency or an unstated one I am aware of. 6) probably not "plug and play" security or setup 7) probably not a replacement for a personal ISP connection, because of no assured connection state or security or bandwidth. 8) seems like wishful "thinking", minus any specs for assured availabilities. Chuck From tompoe at fngi.net Wed Jul 1 08:06:01 2009 From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:06:01 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> Chuck Cole wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tom Poe [mailto:tompoe at fngi.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:34 AM >> To: Chuck Cole >> Cc: TCWUG-List; wilson at visi.com >> Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking >> >> >> Open-Mesh is a group of volunteers dedicated to community-owned WiFi, >> not owned or controlled by any one corporate entity. >> https://www.open-mesh.com/store/categories.php?category=Who-is-%22Open%252dMesh%22%3F >> > > > > I assume that's true, but it seems quite irrelevant for TCWUG except the coincidence that it has the same no control or out-of > control nonentity form. By that definition of org, TCWUG could not qualify for or get corporate support or donations, so it's all > out-of-pocket, and a very limited uphill struggle. Seems like a grand loser for TCWUG activities. Maybe fine in a venue of its > own, but seems very wrong for the basic purpose of TCWUG, a "user group". Otherwise, it's just a black hole that consumes all time > and doesn't seem to have any predictable quality benefits. My cell phone gives me high speed internet access over national scale, > and for free. Volunteers will have power outages and ISP downtime, so the average "availability state" of such a mesh would be > "irregular" on good days. I see no benefit at all for my interests. A Minneapolis mesh probably wouldn't provide regular > connections to in Apple Valley, Stillwater, Plymouth or Owatonna and between those points. > > I still believe making mesh or similar large scale utility activities is a good way to kill any interest in TCWUG. Certainly kills > mine: > > 1) I'm not interested in mesh or public utilities. > > 2) at no time would there be predictable "homogeneous regular mesh" connectivity over the greater TC area. > > 3) Always heterogeneous over significant areas, but operational specs probably based upon homogeneity. > > 4) special topic developer interest seems OT for TCWUG "user group" interests. > > 5) doesn't mitigate any stated present deficiency or an unstated one I am aware of. > > 6) probably not "plug and play" security or setup > > 7) probably not a replacement for a personal ISP connection, because of no assured connection state or security or bandwidth. > > 8) seems like wishful "thinking", minus any specs for assured availabilities. > > > > Chuck > > > Chuck: Where's your disclaimer? This is definitely a corporate telco line if I ever heard one. I suspect the archives will speak loud and clear as to why this group has waned over the years, with folks like you spewing garbage. The boys at open-mesh.com, as you well know, are the founders of the Rooftop Project at MIT. Hopefully, the few list members that have seen your messages, understand where you're coming from, and would want to know why your most recent response includes the list and someone named Wilson at visi.com. Tom From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 10:08:55 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:08:55 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Poe [mailto:tompoe at fngi.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:06 AM > To: Chuck Cole > Cc: TCWUG-List; wilson at visi.com > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking > > > Chuck Cole wrote: > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Tom Poe [mailto:tompoe at fngi.net] > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:34 AM > >> To: Chuck Cole > >> Cc: TCWUG-List; wilson at visi.com > >> Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking > >> > >> > >> Open-Mesh is a group of volunteers dedicated to community-owned WiFi, > >> not owned or controlled by any one corporate entity. > >> https://www.open-mesh.com/store/categories.php?category=Who-is-%22Open%252dMesh%22%3F > >> > > > > > > > > I assume that's true, but it seems quite irrelevant for TCWUG except the coincidence that it has the same no control or out-of > > control nonentity form. By that definition of org, TCWUG could not qualify for or get corporate support or donations, > so it's all > > out-of-pocket, and a very limited uphill struggle. Seems like a grand loser for TCWUG activities. Maybe fine in a venue of its > > own, but seems very wrong for the basic purpose of TCWUG, a "user group". Otherwise, it's just a black hole that > consumes all time > > and doesn't seem to have any predictable quality benefits. My cell phone gives me high speed internet access over > national scale, > > and for free. Volunteers will have power outages and ISP downtime, so the average "availability state" of such a mesh would be > > "irregular" on good days. I see no benefit at all for my interests. A Minneapolis mesh probably wouldn't provide regular > > connections to in Apple Valley, Stillwater, Plymouth or Owatonna and between those points. > > > > I still believe making mesh or similar large scale utility activities is a good way to kill any interest in TCWUG. > Certainly kills > > mine: > > > > 1) I'm not interested in mesh or public utilities. > > > > 2) at no time would there be predictable "homogeneous regular mesh" connectivity over the greater TC area. > > > > 3) Always heterogeneous over significant areas, but operational specs probably based upon homogeneity. > > > > 4) special topic developer interest seems OT for TCWUG "user group" interests. > > > > 5) doesn't mitigate any stated present deficiency or an unstated one I am aware of. > > > > 6) probably not "plug and play" security or setup > > > > 7) probably not a replacement for a personal ISP connection, because of no assured connection state or security or bandwidth. > > > > 8) seems like wishful "thinking", minus any specs for assured availabilities. > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > Chuck: Where's your disclaimer? This is definitely a corporate telco > line if I ever heard one. You have never heard one from me. To say that indicates your utter ignorance and departuure from "user group" content here as you move into ad hominem and OT BS. I have never had anything to do or promote from or for a telco. Your view of the world seems warped if you jump to conclusions like that with no basis whatsoever. > I suspect the archives will speak loud and > clear as to why this group has waned over the years, with folks like you > spewing garbage. I could establish that claim for you. I have rarely posted, but have occasionally suggested that the actual requirements for taking an active role in community projects be met. . The boys at open-mesh.com, as you well know, are the > founders of the Rooftop Project at MIT. So? How would I know that or care? Who cares about a Minnetonka vo-tech? I am not a hobbyist or newbie. How does that match THIS *user group* more than some developer's group? I don't believe it does. > Hopefully, the few list members that have seen your messages, understand > where you're coming from, and would want to know why your most recent > response includes the list and someone named Wilson at visi.com. Tim Wilson is a long-term member who originally posted yesterday with a real need and application for mesh around schools he works with/for.. You lose all credibility when you cannot hold attention in this thread for a day and don't recognize long term members. Chuck From chewie at wookimus.net Wed Jul 1 10:52:02 2009 From: chewie at wookimus.net (Chad Walstrom) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:52:02 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> Message-ID: <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> I would have to agree with Tom regarding Chuck's reaction to a public, decentralized, mesh-network. I'm entirely willing to give some of my bandwidth up for free; I'm paying for it. I don't expect to make money on it. I know that there are some college students in nearby house that are probably leeching off me anyway. Failover for loss of my upstream is a very good reason to adopt community mesh-networking. If there was another person in the neighborhood willing to provide upstream, and enough people using the mesh networking protocol, should my upstream go down, we could still get out to the internet. I don't know why this would be a bad thing. Anyway, still interested in pursuing this. Chad From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jul 1 11:36:28 2009 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:36:28 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates Message-ID: in the interests of moving something forward on the notion of letting folks get together, i'd be willing to attend to the associated logistics for an in-person meeting in july. some place centrally located within the cities would likely be useful. the dunn bros frequented previously was useful but parking was a royal hass. personally, i was thinking of something in the week of 7/6 or the week of 7/20. useful topics that seem to have come up in terms of coverage include: - setting up a public hotspot - mesh networking in your hood - novel antenna designs - member location mapping thoughts? -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Wed Jul 1 13:32:37 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:32:37 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <69E044B6-6AB3-40E4-BE89-6A5BABB81C00@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Chad, all- Now we are talking! I am interested in creating a backbone point-to- point network using some of the sites that this group previously surveyed on Moos and other sites. I think it would be fun to create a high-speed wide-area-coverage network that could be used for anything; including letting the users offer a route to the internet on it. I am interested in: - Installing the sites, rooftops, equipment for an Wifi network to cover the urban city first, then the surrounding suburbs. - Acquiring sites on the cheap. - Metrics from someone else that shows that our network is being used for stuff. - Setting up "event" local hotspots that tie back to the rooftop sites "backbone?" for events like Taste of ... Acquentennial, Gay Pride, whatever-community-event-here. I am less interested in, but would cheerlead my support for: - Acquiring equipment. - Setting up everyone's home wifi ap. - Setting up and maintaining perminant wifi AP's (non-events). ...Anyone share my interests, or need some cheerleading? The above is what I would like to discuss at a future meet-up. -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Chad Walstrom wrote: > I would have to agree with Tom regarding Chuck's reaction to a public, > decentralized, mesh-network. I'm entirely willing to give some of my > bandwidth up for free; I'm paying for it. I don't expect to make > money > on it. I know that there are some college students in nearby house > that > are probably leeching off me anyway. > > Failover for loss of my upstream is a very good reason to adopt > community mesh-networking. If there was another person in the > neighborhood willing to provide upstream, and enough people using the > mesh networking protocol, should my upstream go down, we could still > get > out to the internet. I don't know why this would be a bad thing. > > Anyway, still interested in pursuing this. > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Wed Jul 1 13:50:02 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:50:02 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1313B012-FA04-4660-8B26-415F1C4A4EDA@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Chuck, Tom- Maraki has a neat product -- but I think that this group of Do-It- Yourself 'ers can do better. I've heard of the FON ap, that was retailing for around $30.00. I bet my knowledge is dated, however. https://shop.fon.com/FonShop/shop/US/ShopController?view=product&product=PRD-001 There it is. Regardless if you like a specific network or not (see: Tom Vs. Chuck) the pricepoint for this device is so low, that I could see the group grabbing a few of these and playing "DIY-networker" with these inexpensive boxes. ...Oh yeah, and FON has a network like Maraki, rabble rabble rabble. I'll leave the exploring of that up to the list reader. ;) -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Chuck Cole wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org >> [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Tom Poe >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:13 PM >> To: Tim Wilson >> Cc: tcwug-list at tcwug.org >> Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking >> >> >> Tim Wilson wrote: >>> Hey everyone, >>> >>> It's good to see a little life breathed into this list. >>> >>> I'm looking for some information about the latest technology that >>> could be used to implement a mesh network in the neighborhood >>> around a >>> fixed address like a school. The goal would be to provide free >>> Internet access primarily for apartment residents. >>> >>> -Tim >>> >>> >> Just saw message from S. Earl Jarosh, who is managing two projects >> and >> mentioned Meraki. Www.open-mesh.com is a non-profit spinoff of >> Meraki. >> Two ideal solutions that I would recommend. A one-time fee of $50 >> per >> unit (or less), and one or two Internet access point, which cost each >> month can be shared. Telcos hate that! >> Tom > > > Many members don't live or work in Minneapolis and have little > interest in any fee-bearing or restricted access systems there. I > have less than zero interest, and would have even less interest in > programs or discussion of such. FWIW, my interests are in > small-group and DIY systems, not municipal facilities. > > The last efforts at municipal systems seem to be what killed the > group. There's no way "as a group" to be involved in any public or > municipal projects (gotta be a non-profit org to have any > recognition or responsibility etc), so there doesn't seem to be any > way to > sustain having a municipal project group provide ongoing TCWUG > programs and activities. Best that we try to recognize what sorts of > things may be sustainable by or in TCWUG. > > > Chuck > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Wed Jul 1 13:56:16 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:56:16 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5236A2EA-CACE-49CF-810B-31CE6EF00015@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Steve- Good thoughts. So, then, the weekend of July 25, 2009, say at 2:00pm, say at Caribou Coffee near Har-Mar in Roseville might work for a re-meet-up, how-ya- all-doin' kinda thing? I can reserve the conference room. Caribou Coffee: HAR MAR MALL 2111 Snelling Avenue Rosevillle, MN 55113 (651) 636-5655 -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:36 AM, steve ulrich wrote: > in the interests of moving something forward on the notion of letting > folks get together, i'd be willing to attend to the associated > logistics for an in-person meeting in july. > > some place centrally located within the cities would likely be useful. > the dunn bros frequented previously was useful but parking was a > royal hass. > > personally, i was thinking of something in the week of 7/6 or the > week of 7/20. > > useful topics that seem to have come up in terms of coverage include: > - setting up a public hotspot > - mesh networking in your hood > - novel antenna designs > - member location mapping > > thoughts? > > > -- > steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090701/f93980c5/attachment.htm From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Wed Jul 1 13:53:06 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:53:06 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: Chad, Tom, all- Wow. I am sorry for causing a flame uprising on the list.. I just wanted the pretty maps.tcwug.org to come back online. My apologies. Wowzers. There are still strong feelings among the group after all this time. Great! I am interested in the behind the scenes aspect of setting up a wifi network. I am uninterested in email debates, just want to see a face to face meeting of like-minded, or similarly-minded people that want to play outdoors with stuff. That's it. -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Chad Walstrom wrote: > I would have to agree with Tom regarding Chuck's reaction to a public, > decentralized, mesh-network. I'm entirely willing to give some of my > bandwidth up for free; I'm paying for it. I don't expect to make > money > on it. I know that there are some college students in nearby house > that > are probably leeching off me anyway. > > Failover for loss of my upstream is a very good reason to adopt > community mesh-networking. If there was another person in the > neighborhood willing to provide upstream, and enough people using the > mesh networking protocol, should my upstream go down, we could still > get > out to the internet. I don't know why this would be a bad thing. > > Anyway, still interested in pursuing this. > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 14:33:39 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:33:39 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd like to see actual technical response to the technical points I cited about mesh networks... add latency to the list > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Chuck Cole > > > > > > ... Volunteers will have power outages and ISP downtime, so the average "availability state" of such a mesh would be > > > "irregular" on good days. A Minneapolis mesh probably wouldn't provide regular > > > connections to / in Apple Valley, Stillwater, Plymouth or Owatonna and between those points. > > > > > > > > > 2) at no time would there be predictable "homogeneous regular mesh" connectivity over the greater TC area. > > > > > > 3) Always heterogeneous over significant areas, but operational specs probably based upon homogeneity. > > > > > > > > > 5) doesn't mitigate any stated present deficiency or an unstated one I am aware of. > > > > > > 6) probably not "plug and play" security or setup > > > > > > 7) probably not a replacement for a personal ISP connection, because of no assured connection state or security or bandwidth. > > > > > > 8) seems like wishful "thinking", minus any specs for assured availabilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck: Where's your disclaimer? This is definitely a corporate telco > > line if I ever heard one. BS: most of that was clear and specific technical and other requirement data. None of the specifics have been commented upon. I'm not opposed to something I don't need, but is this "disorganized mesh network" real or just a quasi-feasible fantasy? Chuck From earl at jarosh.org Wed Jul 1 14:36:24 2009 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:36:24 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000c01c9fa83$3953e8f0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> As one that instigated a bit of chatter with my meraki comments. I would be will to host something at my office in GV and show real world 200 user environment with tools and administration. I can easily handle 10 or so and I have access to a board room if more than that. I agree there is a lot of open source and do it your self kind of stuff for a users group. I am not promoting meraki for the group but for what I do as a single consultant it is truly plug and play with some great tools and the equipment is robust for 24x7 outdoor installation and exceeds specs. As a user group there is ample opportunity to delve into other products, open source code, and tool development. Sounds like a good show and tell plus spirited discussion. S. Earl Jarosh N0HZ V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On Behalf Of steve ulrich Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:36 AM To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates in the interests of moving something forward on the notion of letting folks get together, i'd be willing to attend to the associated logistics for an in-person meeting in july. some place centrally located within the cities would likely be useful. the dunn bros frequented previously was useful but parking was a royal hass. personally, i was thinking of something in the week of 7/6 or the week of 7/20. useful topics that seem to have come up in terms of coverage include: - setting up a public hotspot - mesh networking in your hood - novel antenna designs - member location mapping thoughts? -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tcwug-list at tcwug.org http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From earl at jarosh.org Wed Jul 1 14:41:33 2009 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:41:33 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates In-Reply-To: <5236A2EA-CACE-49CF-810B-31CE6EF00015@fastcomputerserviceco.com> References: <5236A2EA-CACE-49CF-810B-31CE6EF00015@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: <000d01c9fa83$f1c6fee0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> That works too but sorry I won't be able to make that as I will be at a VHF through Microwave RF conference in Chicago S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com _____ From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Genelin Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:56 PM To: steve ulrich Cc: tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates Steve- Good thoughts. So, then, the weekend of July 25, 2009, say at 2:00pm, say at Caribou Coffee near Har-Mar in Roseville might work for a re-meet-up, how-ya-all-doin' kinda thing? I can reserve the conference room. Caribou Coffee: HAR MAR MALL 2111 Snelling Avenue Rosevillle, MN 55113 (651) 636-5655 -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:36 AM, steve ulrich wrote: in the interests of moving something forward on the notion of letting folks get together, i'd be willing to attend to the associated logistics for an in-person meeting in july. some place centrally located within the cities would likely be useful. the dunn bros frequented previously was useful but parking was a royal hass. personally, i was thinking of something in the week of 7/6 or the week of 7/20. useful topics that seem to have come up in terms of coverage include: - setting up a public hotspot - mesh networking in your hood - novel antenna designs - member location mapping thoughts? -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tcwug-list at tcwug.org http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090701/f36e7a32/attachment.htm From austad at signal15.com Wed Jul 1 14:50:40 2009 From: austad at signal15.com (Jay Austad) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:50:40 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EDDA1A7-46CB-40D4-8A39-A191AB1CD4B6@signal15.com> Another piece of equipment you guys should check out are the Ubiquity Network Bullets. It looks like a cable TV filter, but has PoE ethernet on one end, antenna connector on the other, and runs linux. Can be had for under $40, and they have 1 watt output models also. DD- WRT runs on them also if you don't want to use their software. It's weatherproof, so you just hang it off the back of the antenna, and run a PoE cable up to it. This reduces the loss in the antenna coax because the run is so short. http://www.ubnt.com/products/bullet.php Also, if you haven't seen it yet, there is a program called PTP LinkPlanner, it's free. Motorola makes it for designing wireless networks using their equipment. But you can use it to calculate antenna heights and line of sight. It uses google maps and topology data to gather a topographical cross section between each site so you can calculate antenna heights. It draws a little overhead map, and even shows you the cross section of the topology for each PTP link. It also calculates the azimuth and elevation for each directional antenna you have reducing the amount of trial and error for aiming. http://motorola.wirelessbroadbandsupport.com/support/ptp/linkplanner.php I used this to design a wireless connection from my brother's house in town in northern MN to 2 other houses out in the boonies. I haven't set it up yet, but we're going to use the Ubiquity bullets and rig antenna towers using chain link fence top rail since it's dirt cheap and we have the space to do guy wires. One antenna must be 60ft, and the other 2 are 40ft each. The top rail comes in 20ft sections for about $10 each. It seems flimsy, but it works well with the proper anchoring. And it certainly beats spending hundreds of dollars for each mast. -- jay austad | 612.423.1433 | austad at signal15.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Chuck Cole wrote: > > I'd like to see actual technical response to the technical points I > cited about mesh networks... add latency to the list > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org >> [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Chuck Cole >>>> >>>> ... Volunteers will have power outages and ISP downtime, so >>>> the average "availability state" of such a mesh would be >>>> "irregular" on good days. A Minneapolis mesh probably wouldn't >>>> provide regular >>>> connections to / in Apple Valley, Stillwater, Plymouth or >>>> Owatonna and between those points. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2) at no time would there be predictable "homogeneous regular >>>> mesh" connectivity over the greater TC area. >>>> >>>> 3) Always heterogeneous over significant areas, but operational >>>> specs probably based upon homogeneity. >>>> >>>> >>>> 5) doesn't mitigate any stated present deficiency or an unstated >>>> one I am aware of. >>>> >>>> 6) probably not "plug and play" security or setup >>>> >>>> 7) probably not a replacement for a personal ISP connection, >>>> because of no assured connection state or security or bandwidth. >>>> >>>> 8) seems like wishful "thinking", minus any specs for assured >>>> availabilities. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Chuck: Where's your disclaimer? This is definitely a corporate >>> telco >>> line if I ever heard one. > > BS: most of that was clear and specific technical and other > requirement data. None of the specifics have been commented upon. > > I'm not opposed to something I don't need, but is this "disorganized > mesh network" real or just a quasi-feasible fantasy? > > > > Chuck > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From ray at w9ray.org Wed Jul 1 16:39:47 2009 From: ray at w9ray.org (Ray J) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:39:47 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4BD7A3.7070006@w9ray.org> The original post asked about information to " implement a mesh network in the neighborhood around a fixed address like a school. The goal would be to provide free Internet access primarily for apartment residents" He never said anything about the greater TC area.. it sounds like he was thinking of providing access over a few blocks fixed around a central point.. pretty big difference. Chuck Cole wrote: > I'd like to see actual technical response to the technical points I cited about mesh networks... add latency to the list > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org >> [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Chuck Cole >> >>>> ... Volunteers will have power outages and ISP downtime, so the average "availability state" of such a mesh would be >>>> "irregular" on good days. A Minneapolis mesh probably wouldn't provide regular >>>> connections to / in Apple Valley, Stillwater, Plymouth or Owatonna and between those points. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2) at no time would there be predictable "homogeneous regular mesh" connectivity over the greater TC area. >>>> >>>> 3) Always heterogeneous over significant areas, but operational specs probably based upon homogeneity. >>>> >>>> >>>> 5) doesn't mitigate any stated present deficiency or an unstated one I am aware of. >>>> >>>> 6) probably not "plug and play" security or setup >>>> >>>> 7) probably not a replacement for a personal ISP connection, because of no assured connection state or security or bandwidth. >>>> >>>> 8) seems like wishful "thinking", minus any specs for assured availabilities. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Chuck: Where's your disclaimer? This is definitely a corporate telco >>> line if I ever heard one. >>> > > BS: most of that was clear and specific technical and other requirement data. None of the specifics have been commented upon. > > I'm not opposed to something I don't need, but is this "disorganized mesh network" real or just a quasi-feasible fantasy? > > > > Chuck > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2212 - Release Date: 07/01/09 05:53:00 > > From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jul 1 17:35:29 2009 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:35:29 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates In-Reply-To: <5236A2EA-CACE-49CF-810B-31CE6EF00015@fastcomputerserviceco.com> References: <5236A2EA-CACE-49CF-810B-31CE6EF00015@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: that would likely work for me. i'd be curious to see if there's much gelling around that date/time... On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Matthew Genelin wrote: > Steve- > Good thoughts. > So, then, the weekend of July 25, 2009, say at 2:00pm, say at Caribou Coffee > near Har-Mar in Roseville might work for a re-meet-up, how-ya-all-doin' > kinda thing? > I can reserve the conference room. > Caribou Coffee: > HAR MAR MALL > 2111 Snelling Avenue > Rosevillle, MN?55113 > (651) 636-5655 > > -matt > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:36 AM, steve ulrich wrote: > > in the interests of moving something forward on the notion of letting > folks get together, i'd be willing to attend to the associated > logistics for an in-person meeting in july. > > some place centrally located within the cities would likely be useful. > the dunn bros frequented previously was useful but parking was a > royal hass. > > personally, i was thinking of something in the week of 7/6 or the week of > 7/20. > > useful topics that seem to have come up in terms of coverage include: > - setting up a public hotspot > - mesh networking in your hood > - novel antenna designs > - member location mapping > > thoughts? > > > -- > steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > -- steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Wed Jul 1 17:43:04 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:43:04 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: <5236A2EA-CACE-49CF-810B-31CE6EF00015@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: Steve- See the multiple "?"'s in the post. I am proposing. Have a better idea? say so. -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:35 PM, steve ulrich wrote: > that would likely work for me. i'd be curious to see if there's much > gelling around that date/time... > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Matthew > Genelin wrote: >> Steve- >> Good thoughts. >> So, then, the weekend of July 25, 2009, say at 2:00pm, say at >> Caribou Coffee >> near Har-Mar in Roseville might work for a re-meet-up, how-ya-all- >> doin' >> kinda thing? >> I can reserve the conference room. >> Caribou Coffee: >> HAR MAR MALL >> 2111 Snelling Avenue >> Rosevillle, MN 55113 >> (651) 636-5655 >> >> -matt >> -- >> ----- >> Matthew Genelin >> Fast Computer Service Co. >> 612-605-5382 >> >> 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 >> Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 >> >> fastcomputerserviceco.com >> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:36 AM, steve ulrich wrote: >> >> in the interests of moving something forward on the notion of letting >> folks get together, i'd be willing to attend to the associated >> logistics for an in-person meeting in july. >> >> some place centrally located within the cities would likely be >> useful. >> the dunn bros frequented previously was useful but parking was a >> royal hass. >> >> personally, i was thinking of something in the week of 7/6 or the >> week of >> 7/20. >> >> useful topics that seem to have come up in terms of coverage include: >> - setting up a public hotspot >> - mesh networking in your hood >> - novel antenna designs >> - member location mapping >> >> thoughts? >> >> >> -- >> steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> tcwug-list at tcwug.org >> http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list >> >> > > > > -- > steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) From cncole at earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 18:10:42 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:10:42 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A4BD7A3.7070006@w9ray.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Ray J > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 4:40 PM > To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking > > > The original post asked about information to > > " implement a mesh network in the neighborhood around a > fixed address like a school. The goal would be to provide free > Internet access primarily for apartment residents" > > He never said anything about the greater TC area.. it sounds like he was thinking of providing access over a few blocks > fixed around a central point.. pretty big difference. You are assuming without knowing or asking. Just because his location goal (primary service area) has a centroid, does not mean or say anything about desired connection graphs. He's not a newbie to networking, and stated a his need/interest in mesh. Chuck From wilson at visi.com Thu Jul 2 01:16:00 2009 From: wilson at visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 01:16:00 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A4BD7A3.7070006@w9ray.org> References: <4A4BD7A3.7070006@w9ray.org> Message-ID: <78C1D14E-39AB-44E5-B220-2422989A1FC9@visi.com> On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:39 PM, Ray J wrote: > The original post asked about information to > > " implement a mesh network in the neighborhood around a > fixed address like a school. The goal would be to provide free > Internet access primarily for apartment residents" > > He never said anything about the greater TC area.. it sounds like he > was thinking of providing access over a few blocks fixed around a > central point.. pretty big difference. Hi all, Let me "de-cloak" a bit more here. I'm the Chief Technology Officer for the Osseo School District. We're a big district in the NW suburbs (30 schools and 21,000 students) with many students who don't have ready access to the Internet at home. We have a number of elementary schools where the majority of students qualify for free or reduced lunch. A few of those schools have apartment buildings very near the school building. Many of the residents of those apartments send their kids to our schools, and it tends to be a highly mobile population of students. We're embarking on a pilot project at several of our sites that will encourage students to bring their own technology to school whether it's a laptop, iPod, netbook, or cell phone. In schools that don't have as many students with access to those kinds of devices, I anticipate the need to provide some loaner equipment for kids. That's where the mesh network comes in. I think it would be really interesting to extend our wireless LAN to the apartments near some of our schools and provide safe Internet access to kids outside the school day. That's where I'm coming from. I spent some time today looking at the open-mesh.com site, and I plan to have some of my staff do some investigating too. Maybe some members of this list would be interested in contributing time or talent to this project if it ever takes off someday. Let me know off list if you're interested. -Tim -- Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson at visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org From cncole at earthlink.net Thu Jul 2 01:46:50 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 01:46:50 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <78C1D14E-39AB-44E5-B220-2422989A1FC9@visi.com> Message-ID: Tim has a real project of definable size, need, and basic performance. This is not a BS "infinite and undefined" mesh that requires an infinite roll-out as a first step. Tim has access and control of any resource he needs as ISP feed and core staff for support if volunteers help get it started. Perhaps this is a good and suitable start and test case for a mesh: it's defined and feasible!. The fact that it's about 40 miles from me makes it "a nice place to visit" now and then, but I'd be curious enough to listen in and occassionally visit for this mesh project. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Tim Wilson > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:16 AM > To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking > > > On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:39 PM, Ray J wrote: > > > The original post asked about information to > > > > " implement a mesh network in the neighborhood around a > > fixed address like a school. The goal would be to provide free > > Internet access primarily for apartment residents" > > > > He never said anything about the greater TC area.. it sounds like he > > was thinking of providing access over a few blocks fixed around a > > central point.. pretty big difference. > > > Hi all, > > Let me "de-cloak" a bit more here. I'm the Chief Technology Officer > for the Osseo School District. We're a big district in the NW suburbs > (30 schools and 21,000 students) with many students who don't have > ready access to the Internet at home. We have a number of elementary > schools where the majority of students qualify for free or reduced > lunch. A few of those schools have apartment buildings very near the > school building. Many of the residents of those apartments send their > kids to our schools, and it tends to be a highly mobile population of > students. > > We're embarking on a pilot project at several of our sites that will > encourage students to bring their own technology to school whether > it's a laptop, iPod, netbook, or cell phone. In schools that don't > have as many students with access to those kinds of devices, I > anticipate the need to provide some loaner equipment for kids. That's > where the mesh network comes in. I think it would be really > interesting to extend our wireless LAN to the apartments near some of > our schools and provide safe Internet access to kids outside the > school day. > > That's where I'm coming from. I spent some time today looking at the > open-mesh.com site, and I plan to have some of my staff do some > investigating too. Maybe some members of this list would be interested > in contributing time or talent to this project if it ever takes off > someday. Let me know off list if you're interested. > > -Tim > > -- > Tim Wilson, The Savvy Technologist > Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA > Educational technology guy, Linux and OS X fan, Grad. student, Daddy > mailto:wilson at visi.com aim: tis270 blog: http://technosavvy.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > From poptix at poptix.net Mon Jul 6 03:05:54 2009 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:05:54 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> Message-ID: <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Ignore the In-Reply-To Message ID header, just picked a convenient one at the end of the thread. I'll make a few points here: *) Yes, maps.tcwug.org has been down for quite a while. I gave up on maintaining it when the group died and there are much better options now. *) Talking about mesh networking in the metro is fun and all, but it's unrealistic. USI Wireless has absolutely failed in my opinion (the little bit of actual coverage they have is only due to being well over the legal FCC limits in some areas, and blasting regular consumer access points out of the water.. not in the spirit of the unlicensed spectrum laws). Minneapolis (and every other metro unlicensed WiFi initiative) has failed at actually achieving what they set out to do due to interference or simply poor management. But hey, it's wonderful that my tax dollars are going towards yet another horribly failed project while also making my WiFi use a pain! *) Be realistic. You may think you're paying for your unlimited internet access to do with what you please (DSL, Cable, etc), but in most cases you are directly forbidden by your terms of service from sharing it. Even worse, you are responsible for what happens over it. Unless you're willing to risk being blacklisted (and possibly ending up in court) because someone decided to spam, download child pornography, or use P2P file sharing over your open access point I suggest realigning your perception of reality. *) The 2.4GHz and 5.2/5.8GHz spectrum are *saturated*. 5.x GHz a little less so, but it's still equivalent to a busy social gathering. Everyone is talking louder to achieve a decent SNR. If you're truly interested in any kind of long distance or wide area wireless network, I suggest licensed spectrum, this is much easier for an educational institution or business to procure than an individual. With the negative out of the way, I'll put forth the following: I'm still very interested in niche WiFi products, particularly those that are suited to restricted or constricted environments. Steve Ulrich was very helpful to the group in the beginning by hosting at Cisco and offering useful discussions about *wireless* (not necessarily WiFi) itself. I just do not believe that this group has much of a future if people insist on narrowing down the topic to community WiFi discussions which most of us have come to understand are doomed to failure. Disclaimer? I worked for an unlicensed spectrum WiFi provider in western Minnesota with over 3,500 square miles of coverage until 2005 or so. They went bankrupt, they came out of bankruptcy, they're still doing naughty illegal things in the middle of nowhere to have an inkling of a chance at surviving. I've had zero interest (personal or profit) in any business in Minnesota related to the Internet since then. From pfhyper at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 07:37:26 2009 From: pfhyper at gmail.com (Peter Fleck) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 07:37:26 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Message-ID: Hello, I've been a lurker for the current discussion. I joined the TCWUG-List as it was fading away a few years back and when I was very interested in the whole Wi-Fi municipal systems sprouting up around the U.S. For better or for worse, Minneapolis is the poster child of municipal Wi-Fi. I'm not a big supporter of the USI Wireless initiative and hoped that we would have a publicly owned system in Minneapolis instead. I blogged extensively as the system was built. I don't blog about it so much now (curse Twitter) but do get a post in here and there. Latest report here: http://www.pfhyper.com/weblog/2009/05/minneapolis-unwired-dead-zones-ious.html And many of the historical posts here: http://delicious.com/pfhyperblog/wireless I do sit on the Digital Inclusion Fund Advisory Committee which gets its money from USIW. There was an initial $500,000 infusion of which we still have $100,000. No word on when we can expect more from USIW (based on their profits). (You can get a copy of the City of Mpls/USIW contract + other papers at pfhyper.com.) I wanted to comment a bit on our local mesh and Matt, I hope you don't mind if I work with your last email. > *) Talking about mesh networking in the metro is fun and all, but it's > unrealistic. USI Wireless has absolutely failed in my opinion (the > little bit of actual coverage they have is only due to being well over > the legal FCC limits in some areas, and blasting regular consumer access > points out of the water.. not in the spirit of the unlicensed spectrum > laws). With over 10,000 subscribers (unverified, of course), I wouldn't say they have failed. I'm not a subscriber but I get an excellent signal at my home in Seward Neighborhood. People in this city do consider it an alternative and some people are very happy with it and it is significantly cheaper if you can pay out one or two years. It is NOT a solution for digital divide/inclusion issues although USIW does fund nonprofit initiatives via the Digi Inc. Committee I mentioned above. I would venture to say that they are not over any FCC limits and if you can prove that then I'll be the first to contact the FCC. It's not going to help anyone to spread misinformation. As for interfering with consumer access, yeah, my access gets hijacked several times a week (just have to reset but a pain). But its a legal hijack -- unlicensed spectrum is the wild, wild west right now and your neighbor is as likely to hijack you as USIW. Believe me, if USIW could stop everyone legally from interfering with their system, they would. > But hey, it's wonderful that my > tax dollars are going towards yet another horribly failed project while > also making my WiFi use a pain! USIW is a private company and not at all *directly* supported by tax dollars. Minneapolis is the anchor tenant and that is why the system is successful and still in place. There is indirect support. Minneapolis paid ahead for services (see my blog post) that they really aren't receiving. Council Members are not happy about this. Minneapolis Business Information Systems (BIS) predicted deep savings using Wi-Fi but they haven't materialized because USIW can't provide the coverage initially promised (and later revised). The City also has to put in new poles to hang transmitters at City cost. But USIW rents the space on these poles so eventually they will be paid for. > *) Be realistic. You may think you're paying for your unlimited internet > access to do with what you please (DSL, Cable, etc), but in most cases > you are directly forbidden by your terms of service from sharing it. Last I checked, Qwest DSL does not forbid sharing at least at the household level. Hard to believe but it was true. Not sure about the cablecos. I run a FON system here and provide access. I doubt if many people use it and I think you have to do some song and dances to stay on the system or pay. But sometimes they sell their WAPs really cheap (with antennas) and they can be flashed to an Open Source system. (I have not tried that.) Sorry that took up so much space. I hope you all find it useful information. I have some ideas for community mesh systems. They are working nicely in some places, some European cities in particular. They are a cheap way to provide Internet access if you are able to get the pipe to the Internet in place cheap. Or they can provide a closed neighborhood system of sharing. This can also be very valuable. So one idea would be to (un)wire the Cedar Riverside high rises and construct a WAN for residents, focusing on the Somali population. No Internet. This would likely require funding and nonprofit involvement. I don't see that as a big problem, you just get yourself a fiscal agent. The local Freegeek/TC Open Circuit group is in the process of becoming a 501C3 and might be interested. Good to see this list active again. Peter -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com From tompoe at fngi.net Mon Jul 6 08:34:42 2009 From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:34:42 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Message-ID: <4A51FD72.7080006@fngi.net> Peter Fleck wrote: > - - - snip - - - > So one idea would be to (un)wire the Cedar Riverside high rises and > construct a WAN for residents, focusing on the Somali population. No > Internet. This would likely require funding and nonprofit involvement. > I don't see that as a big problem, you just get yourself a fiscal > agent. The local Freegeek/TC Open Circuit group is in the process of > becoming a 501C3 and might be interested. > > Good to see this list active again. > > Peter > > > Interesting idea, if I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, I am a disadvantaged computer user. Been struggling for days with trying to understand how to properly set up a home network and assign IP's to two computer boxes. Assumptions: A WAN would establish an effective local broadband infrastructure for the high rises. There would initially be no Internet access. Vision: This infrastructure could support communications between residents of the network, computer to computer. If one of the computers was set up as a server on an intranet, it might provide a virtual world application like Sun's Wonderland virtual world (open source). Residents would then be able to have a virtual venue that includes individual as well as group activities. At this level, I suspect the local broadband infrastructure becomes attractive to ISP providers, telco/cableco incumbents, hospitals, grocery stores, newspapers, city services, etc., who might want to gain access to the network in exchange for reasonable wholesale Internet access pricing for the residents. The social and educational enhancement from having a WAN, or local broadband infrastructure seems obvious to me. Peter, is any of the above in line with what your committee is set up to explore? Have you had any contact with the folks at St Paul College, or possibly some group at the University? http://blogs.sun.com/wonderland/entry/st_paul_college_open_virtual Tom From poptix at poptix.net Mon Jul 6 12:53:15 2009 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:53:15 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Message-ID: <1246902795.5452.81.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 07:37 -0500, Peter Fleck wrote: > Hello, Howdy. Replies in-line. > With over 10,000 subscribers (unverified, of course), I wouldn't say > they have failed. I'm not a subscriber but I get an excellent signal > at my home in Seward Neighborhood. People in this city do consider it > an alternative and some people are very happy with it and it is > significantly cheaper if you can pay out one or two years. It is NOT a > solution for digital divide/inclusion issues although USIW does fund > nonprofit initiatives via the Digi Inc. Committee I mentioned above. Most of the people I have spoken to who have actually managed to subscribe complain that it's either too slow, poor coverage, or no coverage and the only reason they haven't canceled is because they can't remember their login credentials or just don't care. My personal experience is that at my old home (41st & Humboldt Ave N) they have the equipment up, blasting at full power, 'USI Wireless Coming Soon'. Places I have gone and said 'wow, it would be great if I had wifi in this park' it was either such a poor signal I could not associate or there was simply no coverage to begin with. At the new place (Lake St & Nicollet) the service is active, and happily blasting away on channels 1, 6 and 11. > I would venture to say that they are not over any FCC limits and if > you can prove that then I'll be the first to contact the FCC. It's not > going to help anyone to spread misinformation. As for interfering with > consumer access, yeah, my access gets hijacked several times a week > (just have to reset but a pain). But its a legal hijack -- unlicensed > spectrum is the wild, wild west right now and your neighbor is as > likely to hijack you as USIW. Believe me, if USIW could stop everyone > legally from interfering with their system, they would. >From running a commercial WiFi network believe me, I'm aware of legal output levels and the pressure from management to go outside of them when a node suddenly stops working because another legal user of the band is completely swamping the band nearby. With the configuration USI Wireless uses (dual omnidirectional antennas) there is simply no usable configuration of 'legal output levels' and 'it works' in many areas. If they've acquired licensed spectrum they're using in those areas it would be news to me. > > > But hey, it's wonderful that my > > tax dollars are going towards yet another horribly failed project while > > also making my WiFi use a pain! > > USIW is a private company and not at all *directly* supported by tax > dollars. Minneapolis is the anchor tenant and that is why the system > is successful and still in place. There is indirect support. > Minneapolis paid ahead for services (see my blog post) that they > really aren't receiving. Council Members are not happy about this. > Minneapolis Business Information Systems (BIS) predicted deep savings > using Wi-Fi but they haven't materialized because USIW can't provide > the coverage initially promised (and later revised). The City also has > to put in new poles to hang transmitters at City cost. But USIW rents > the space on these poles so eventually they will be paid for. > I understand the "deal" they struck for this, they (Minneapolis) were warned when they were taking public input that USI Wireless would *never* be able to meet their promised goals. They still can't even though the technology has advanced, and they won't be able to in the near future, if ever. In the end it's my tax dollars being spent to pollute the spectrum for no gain (from my perspective). Minneapolis BIS blindly accepted the word of sales people that promised the moon. In the end I suspect USI Wireless will either go licensed, get enough government money to run a DSL or Cable line to most of their access points, or go bankrupt. They still won't be able to meet the requirements of their deal with Minneapolis. > > *) Be realistic. You may think you're paying for your unlimited internet > > access to do with what you please (DSL, Cable, etc), but in most cases > > you are directly forbidden by your terms of service from sharing it. > > Last I checked, Qwest DSL does not forbid sharing at least at the > household level. Hard to believe but it was true. Not sure about the > cablecos. Actually, Qwest does forbid it. http://www.qwest.com/legal/highspeedinternetsubscriberagreement/files/HSI_Subscriber_Agreement_ENG_v21_051509.pdf Page 10. Section 7 subsection (a) and (b) cover it quite clearly. > I have some ideas for community mesh systems. They are working nicely > in some places, some European cities in particular. They are a cheap > way to provide Internet access if you are able to get the pipe to the > Internet in place cheap. Or they can provide a closed neighborhood > system of sharing. This can also be very valuable. There are obviously places where it can be made to work -- the need for access and community peer pressure can deal with the people interfering. The city of Minneapolis is not that small neighborhood though, nor is it lacking in connectivity options. From tompoe at fngi.net Mon Jul 6 13:07:48 2009 From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:07:48 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <1246902795.5452.81.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> <1246902795.5452.81.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Message-ID: <4A523D74.1070900@fngi.net> Matt Hallacy wrote: > - - - snip - - - > The city of Minneapolis is not that small neighborhood though, nor is it > lacking in connectivity options. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > I agree with Matt. There are expensive, restrictive options available in Minneapolis. Tom From pfhyper at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 18:26:57 2009 From: pfhyper at gmail.com (Peter Fleck) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:26:57 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <1246902795.5452.81.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> <1246902795.5452.81.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Message-ID: > Minneapolis BIS blindly accepted the word of sales people that promised > the moon. Totally agree with you on that. BIS then sold the City Council on the deal. > The city of Minneapolis is not that small neighborhood though, nor is it > lacking in connectivity options. Wait. You're not saying that I have any real choice about connecting to the Internet in Minneapolis, are you? There's Qwest, Comcast, and USIW. Three vendors are not what I call a choice. (I may be misunderstanding your statement.) I want reasonably priced fiber to my home, please. -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Mon Jul 6 18:43:47 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:43:47 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A51FD72.7080006@fngi.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> <4A51FD72.7080006@fngi.net> Message-ID: Tom, Peter, all- An interesting idea. I had thought on focusing the group on point-to- point wifi between high buildings and geek's homes. That way we are not in the USI Wireless business, etc. I invisiioned: - Creating a network (just the IP based network, no internet) for use by the people who create it (geeks, this list) - Having the endpoints owed by the owner of the property. My house = my point-to-point and hotspot. - Having a regular meeting to help the users of this stuff build, maintain, upgrade and make apps and routes on the network known. This accomplishes some basic principals: - I get to do outdoor work on roofs of buildings (w00t!) - Focus on the utility of the network, and the applications will be built by the users. - The user's owning the endpoints means that you can decide what to do with your "node" on the network; give away access, sell access, restrict access, extend it to the neighborhood, whatever the hell. So, for example, to get things started (from the maps.tcwug.org site that appears to not be coming back.) U of M Moos Tower <---------> S. Mpls Geeks Home <------> Some local school Moos tower equipment is owned by me, the S. Mpls Geeks home is owned by the geek, and the local school is owned by the school. = Maximum flexability, = minimal drama = meetings about new users, applications and routes on this point-to-point network. -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:34 AM, Tom Poe wrote: > Peter Fleck wrote: >> - - - snip - - - >> So one idea would be to (un)wire the Cedar Riverside high rises and >> construct a WAN for residents, focusing on the Somali population. No >> Internet. This would likely require funding and nonprofit >> involvement. >> I don't see that as a big problem, you just get yourself a fiscal >> agent. The local Freegeek/TC Open Circuit group is in the process of >> becoming a 501C3 and might be interested. >> >> Good to see this list active again. >> >> Peter >> >> >> > Interesting idea, if I understand what you're saying. > Unfortunately, I > am a disadvantaged computer user. Been struggling for days with > trying > to understand how to properly set up a home network and assign IP's to > two computer boxes. > > Assumptions: > A WAN would establish an effective local broadband infrastructure for > the high rises. > > There would initially be no Internet access. > > Vision: > This infrastructure could support communications between residents of > the network, computer to computer. If one of the computers was set up > as a server on an intranet, it might provide a virtual world > application > like Sun's Wonderland virtual world (open source). Residents would > then > be able to have a virtual venue that includes individual as well as > group activities. > > At this level, I suspect the local broadband infrastructure becomes > attractive to ISP providers, telco/cableco incumbents, hospitals, > grocery stores, newspapers, city services, etc., who might want to > gain > access to the network in exchange for reasonable wholesale Internet > access pricing for the residents. > > The social and educational enhancement from having a WAN, or local > broadband infrastructure seems obvious to me. > > Peter, is any of the above in line with what your committee is set > up to > explore? Have you had any contact with the folks at St Paul > College, or > possibly some group at the University? > http://blogs.sun.com/wonderland/entry/st_paul_college_open_virtual > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. > Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From pfhyper at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 20:35:46 2009 From: pfhyper at gmail.com (Peter Fleck) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:35:46 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <4A51FD72.7080006@fngi.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> <4A51FD72.7080006@fngi.net> Message-ID: Tom - This could be a valid proposal for the Digital Inclusion Fund group. It would need a nonprofit to propose it or act as a fiscal agent. Right now, there is no date set for a grant cycle. On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Tom Poe wrote: > Peter Fleck wrote: >> >> - - - snip - - - >> So one idea would be to (un)wire the Cedar Riverside high rises and >> construct a WAN for residents, focusing on the Somali population. No >> Internet. This would likely require funding and nonprofit involvement. >> I don't see that as a big problem, you just get yourself a fiscal >> agent. The local Freegeek/TC Open Circuit group is in the process of >> becoming a 501C3 and might be interested. >> >> Good to see this list active again. >> >> Peter >> >> >> > > Interesting idea, if I understand what you're saying. ?Unfortunately, I am a > disadvantaged computer user. ?Been struggling for days with trying to > understand how to properly set up a home network and assign IP's to two > computer boxes. > > Assumptions: > A WAN would establish an effective local broadband infrastructure for the > high rises. > There would initially be no Internet access. > > Vision: > This infrastructure could support communications between residents of the > network, computer to computer. ?If one of the computers was set up as a > server on an intranet, it might provide a virtual world application like > Sun's Wonderland virtual world (open source). ?Residents would then be able > to have a virtual venue that includes individual as well as group > activities. > At this level, I suspect the local broadband infrastructure becomes > attractive to ISP providers, telco/cableco incumbents, hospitals, grocery > stores, newspapers, city services, etc., who might want to gain access to > the network in exchange for reasonable wholesale Internet access pricing for > the residents. > > The social and educational enhancement from having a WAN, or local broadband > infrastructure seems obvious to me. > Peter, is any of the above in line with what your committee is set up to > explore? ?Have you had any contact with the folks at St Paul College, or > possibly some group at the University? > http://blogs.sun.com/wonderland/entry/st_paul_college_open_virtual > Tom > -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com From tompoe at fngi.net Mon Jul 6 21:20:08 2009 From: tompoe at fngi.net (Tom Poe) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:20:08 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> <4A51FD72.7080006@fngi.net> Message-ID: <4A52B0D8.2060308@fngi.net> Peter Fleck wrote: > Tom - This could be a valid proposal for the Digital Inclusion Fund > group. It would need a nonprofit to propose it or act as a fiscal > agent. Right now, there is no date set for a grant cycle. > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Tom Poe wrote: > >> Peter Fleck wrote: >> >>> - - - snip - - - >>> So one idea would be to (un)wire the Cedar Riverside high rises and >>> construct a WAN for residents, focusing on the Somali population. No >>> Internet. This would likely require funding and nonprofit involvement. >>> I don't see that as a big problem, you just get yourself a fiscal >>> agent. The local Freegeek/TC Open Circuit group is in the process of >>> becoming a 501C3 and might be interested. >>> >>> Good to see this list active again. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Interesting idea, if I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, I am a >> disadvantaged computer user. Been struggling for days with trying to >> understand how to properly set up a home network and assign IP's to two >> computer boxes. >> >> Assumptions: >> A WAN would establish an effective local broadband infrastructure for the >> high rises. >> There would initially be no Internet access. >> >> Vision: >> This infrastructure could support communications between residents of the >> network, computer to computer. If one of the computers was set up as a >> server on an intranet, it might provide a virtual world application like >> Sun's Wonderland virtual world (open source). Residents would then be able >> to have a virtual venue that includes individual as well as group >> activities. >> At this level, I suspect the local broadband infrastructure becomes >> attractive to ISP providers, telco/cableco incumbents, hospitals, grocery >> stores, newspapers, city services, etc., who might want to gain access to >> the network in exchange for reasonable wholesale Internet access pricing for >> the residents. >> >> The social and educational enhancement from having a WAN, or local broadband >> infrastructure seems obvious to me. >> Peter, is any of the above in line with what your committee is set up to >> explore? Have you had any contact with the folks at St Paul College, or >> possibly some group at the University? >> http://blogs.sun.com/wonderland/entry/st_paul_college_open_virtual >> Tom >> >> Peter: A proposal might be a good starting point for further discussion. It would also be a good way to coordinate groups and organizations. I could put together a draft and cover letter for starting the discussion. Can you point me to your guidelines for submitting proposals? As there's every reason to believe that Broadband Technology Opportunities Program (BTOP), which will be administered by the NTIA; and the Broadband Initiatives Program (BIP), which will be administered by the USDA, will participate at some level, the opportunity to attract your Digital Inclusion Fund is really appreciated. I contacted the Free Geek group, earlier, to see what their legal status is. Thanks, Tom Disclaimer: I am a Vietnam veteran living on a small VA pension in north-central Iowa. My pension requires I not accept any outside income of any sort. If I do, I forfeit my rights. With that in mind, any time and effort on this idea is strictly voluntary. From poptix at poptix.net Mon Jul 6 22:10:49 2009 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:10:49 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> <1246902795.5452.81.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Message-ID: <1246936249.10526.3.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 18:26 -0500, Peter Fleck wrote: > Wait. You're not saying that I have any real choice about connecting > to the Internet in Minneapolis, are you? There's Qwest, Comcast, and > USIW. Three vendors are not what I call a choice. (I may be > misunderstanding your statement.) > > I want reasonably priced fiber to my home, please. Don't get me wrong, most of the United States is under one monopoly or another when it comes to broadband. My point was that USI isn't providing service anywhere it wasn't already easy to get from at least a few providers.. and at their speeds, you can start including the cellular and satellite companies. (I'm quite happy with the built in Verizon EVDO on my T61, which is what I use when away from home). From pfhyper at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 18:21:52 2009 From: pfhyper at gmail.com (Peter Fleck) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:21:52 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Wi-Fi Project in Michigan Message-ID: Story about a Meraki Wi-Fi project in Ann Arbor. I wish this city could have got some projects like this off the ground before USIW came on the scene. There is supposed to be some free spots DT and in the parks. We are still waiting. http://www.mlive.com/businessreview/annarbor/index.ssf/2009/07/initiatives_explore_wireless_o.html -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com From pfhyper at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 18:26:16 2009 From: pfhyper at gmail.com (Peter Fleck) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:26:16 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] maps.tcwug.org down? In-Reply-To: <001201c9f9bc$c2677de0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> References: <4A49678E.8060805@umn.edu> <4867D8E5-FE5B-417B-8593-1C84D8291694@fastcomputerserviceco.com> <4A4A2873.3020104@fngi.net> <001201c9f9bc$c2677de0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> Message-ID: I'm not deep on the technology end but Meraki systems are proprietary and I think there are open source solutions. You can start with the Meraki (or FON or linksys hardware) and reflash). I've got links laying around somewhere. Peter On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: > That 100 mile antenna spec is based on a megawatt TV channel. ?White space > spec is 100mw EIRP Omni and 4 watt fixed point to point. ?You are not going > to get 100 miles at that power level with that antenna, you need to build a > really long yagi. ?I think home built planned hot spot WIFI as we were > discussing it years ago is a dead issue other than experimentation. ?The > poorly engineered St Louis Pk fiasco proved that and with the 3g and 4g > improvements to Cellular systems the Minneapolis deal can't be far behind. > What's the financial ROI? ?The reality is the system has to pay for itself > through revenue or taxes. The only viable easy to setup solution for defined > boundaries is Meraki. I manage 2 of those that cover 80 acre areas and not > without their own challenges. ?The Cisco system is a nightmare. > > Now there is plenty of fodder to get list hopping for a little while. > > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > V.P. of Information Technology > Cell: ?612.868.1313 > Off: ? 763.545.3275 > Fax: 763.546.0027 > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > Golden Valley, MN ?55422 > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > earl at moneycenters.com > www.moneycenters.com > > "White spaces" frequencies have opened up. ?Gray-Hoverman antenna is > patent-free, DIY for under $10. ?The antennas pull signals up to 100 miles. > What does that mean for wireless networks? ?I think it will impact on the > MSP network dramatically in both terms of speed and reach. ?But, I am > waiting for those who understand computers better than I do to explain it > all. > > Every kid should be 24x7 with their school networks, not just school > computer lab token access. > > There's lots to discuss. ?I'm far away, but would enjoy making the trip to > get together and work on stuff. > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com From pfhyper at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 18:29:35 2009 From: pfhyper at gmail.com (Peter Fleck) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:29:35 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] prospective in-person meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: <5236A2EA-CACE-49CF-810B-31CE6EF00015@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: Do we have a firm date/time for some kind of meetup? July 25 was proposed, I think. Peter On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Matthew Genelin wrote: > Steve- > > See the multiple "?"'s in the post. > > I am proposing. Have a better idea? say so. > > -matt > > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > > On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:35 PM, steve ulrich wrote: > >> that would likely work for me. i'd be curious to see if there's much >> gelling around that date/time... >> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Matthew >> Genelin wrote: >>> Steve- >>> Good thoughts. >>> So, then, the weekend of July 25, 2009, say at 2:00pm, say at >>> Caribou Coffee >>> near Har-Mar in Roseville might work for a re-meet-up, how-ya-all- >>> doin' >>> kinda thing? >>> I can reserve the conference room. >>> Caribou Coffee: >>> HAR MAR MALL >>> 2111 Snelling Avenue >>> Rosevillle, MN 55113 >>> (651) 636-5655 >>> >>> -matt >>> -- >>> ----- >>> Matthew Genelin >>> Fast Computer Service Co. >>> 612-605-5382 >>> >>> 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 >>> Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 >>> >>> fastcomputerserviceco.com >>> On Jul 1, 2009, at 11:36 AM, steve ulrich wrote: >>> >>> in the interests of moving something forward on the notion of letting >>> folks get together, i'd be willing to attend to the associated >>> logistics for an in-person meeting in july. >>> >>> some place centrally located within the cities would likely be >>> useful. >>> the dunn bros frequented previously was useful but parking was a >>> royal hass. >>> >>> personally, i was thinking of something in the week of 7/6 or the >>> week of >>> 7/20. >>> >>> useful topics that seem to have come up in terms of coverage include: >>> - setting up a public hotspot >>> - mesh networking in your hood >>> - novel antenna designs >>> - member location mapping >>> >>> thoughts? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >>> Minnesota >>> tcwug-list at tcwug.org >>> http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> steve ulrich (sulrich at botwerks.*) > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com From earl at jarosh.org Sat Jul 11 08:39:15 2009 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:39:15 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] maps.tcwug.org down? In-Reply-To: References: <4A49678E.8060805@umn.edu><4867D8E5-FE5B-417B-8593-1C84D8291694@fastcomputerserviceco.com><4A4A2873.3020104@fngi.net><001201c9f9bc$c2677de0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> Message-ID: <001001ca022d$03b81520$bee6830a@moneyf43c653fb> Yes, The Meraki is proprietary and not the solution if you want to experiment and write custom code for a variety of other uses but it does what is does well and stable plus they understand the RF side of it. It is not the solution for everything just one many options. It depends on what you want to accomplish and how much fiddling you want to do. I am not promoting them rather stating experience. The open source system is www.open-mesh.com S. Earl Jarosh V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Peter Fleck Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 6:26 PM To: TCWUG-List Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] maps.tcwug.org down? I'm not deep on the technology end but Meraki systems are proprietary and I think there are open source solutions. You can start with the Meraki (or FON or linksys hardware) and reflash). I've got links laying around somewhere. Peter On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: > That 100 mile antenna spec is based on a megawatt TV channel. ?White > space spec is 100mw EIRP Omni and 4 watt fixed point to point. ?You > are not going to get 100 miles at that power level with that antenna, > you need to build a really long yagi. ?I think home built planned hot > spot WIFI as we were discussing it years ago is a dead issue other > than experimentation. ?The poorly engineered St Louis Pk fiasco proved > that and with the 3g and 4g improvements to Cellular systems the Minneapolis deal can't be far behind. > What's the financial ROI? ?The reality is the system has to pay for > itself through revenue or taxes. The only viable easy to setup > solution for defined boundaries is Meraki. I manage 2 of those that > cover 80 acre areas and not without their own challenges. ?The Cisco system is a nightmare. > > Now there is plenty of fodder to get list hopping for a little while. > > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > V.P. of Information Technology > Cell: ?612.868.1313 > Off: ? 763.545.3275 > Fax: 763.546.0027 > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > Golden Valley, MN ?55422 > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > earl at moneycenters.com > www.moneycenters.com > > "White spaces" frequencies have opened up. ?Gray-Hoverman antenna is > patent-free, DIY for under $10. ?The antennas pull signals up to 100 miles. > What does that mean for wireless networks? ?I think it will impact on > the MSP network dramatically in both terms of speed and reach. ?But, I > am waiting for those who understand computers better than I do to > explain it all. > > Every kid should be 24x7 with their school networks, not just school > computer lab token access. > > There's lots to discuss. ?I'm far away, but would enjoy making the > trip to get together and work on stuff. > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota tcwug-list at tcwug.org http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Thu Jul 23 14:23:49 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:23:49 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Meetup: Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. Message-ID: Hello All- I am sponsoring the first meet-up of this group. It's: Caribou Coffee - Across from Har Mar Mall Little 10-20 person meeting room with door and white board. (inside Caribou.) 2111 Snelling Ave Roseville, MN 55113 (651) 636-5655 Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. (That's when the room is reserved for, Saturday was unavailable.) Tentative Agenda: - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what interests each of us.) - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what has been hacked away on it... - Specific projects that interest attendees: . La Fonera / Ubiquity network bullets / other inexpensive wifi show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to do that is cool.) Bring pictures! . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest to the group in 120 mins. If I have made an omission, or you want something more on the agenda, please drop me an email off-list, and I will gladly include it! This is a social kinda group, and it will be nice to see many of you after years of not seeing wireless people. :) -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090723/3508e23f/attachment.htm From earl at jarosh.org Sat Jul 25 09:01:52 2009 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:01:52 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Meetup: Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009501ca0d30$7bc1cc10$bee6830a@moneyf43c653fb> I maybe back in town and If I am I would happy to shown a real world example of a Meraki system some metrics, Pictures and People can play around in the dashboard. I am also interested in what somebody else might be doing. S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com _____ From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Genelin Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:24 PM To: TCWUG-List Subject: [tcwug-list] Meetup: Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. Hello All- I am sponsoring the first meet-up of this group. It's: Caribou Coffee - Across from Har Mar Mall Little 10-20 person meeting room with door and white board. (inside Caribou.) 2111 Snelling Ave Roseville, MN 55113 (651) 636-5655 Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. (That's when the room is reserved for, Saturday was unavailable.) Tentative Agenda: - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what interests each of us.) - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what has been hacked away on it... - Specific projects that interest attendees: . La Fonera / Ubiquity network bullets / other inexpensive wifi show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to do that is cool.) Bring pictures! . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest to the group in 120 mins. If I have made an omission, or you want something more on the agenda, please drop me an email off-list, and I will gladly include it! This is a social kinda group, and it will be nice to see many of you after years of not seeing wireless people. :) -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090725/b0a7221b/attachment.htm From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 09:06:29 2009 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:06:29 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Meetup: Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <009501ca0d30$7bc1cc10$bee6830a@moneyf43c653fb> References: <009501ca0d30$7bc1cc10$bee6830a@moneyf43c653fb> Message-ID: <7d3948c70907260706u2fd4688wc3d842e9bf2259b0@mail.gmail.com> Hi Earl and all: I'd like to see a Meraki demo. I have a couple of cantennas that I'll bring that I got off of ebay. I have a yagi too, but that is kind of big. Truthfully the cantennas don't seem to be pulling in the signal as well as I thought they would. I've only tested in two places so far though. -Matt Johnson -- Matthew Johnson Software Consultant Minneapolis, MN +1 (612) 392 2185 +1 (815) 572-8779 fax matt at omega.org On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 9:01 AM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: > I maybe back in town and If I am I would happy to shown a real world example > of a Meraki system some metrics, Pictures and People can play around in the > dashboard.? I am also interested in what somebody else might be doing. > > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > V.P. of Information Technology > Cell:? 612.868.1313 > Off:?? 763.545.3275 > Fax: 763.546.0027 > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > Golden Valley, MN? 55422 > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > earl at moneycenters.com > www.moneycenters.com > > > ________________________________ > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of Matthew Genelin > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:24 PM > To: TCWUG-List > Subject: [tcwug-list] Meetup: Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. > > Hello All- > I am sponsoring the first meet-up of this group. It's: > Caribou Coffee - Across from Har Mar Mall > Little 10-20 person meeting room with door and white board. (inside > Caribou.) > 2111 Snelling Ave > Roseville, MN 55113 > (651) 636-5655 > Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. (That's when the room is > reserved for, Saturday was unavailable.) > Tentative Agenda: > - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what > interests each of us.) > - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the world has > changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. > ?. Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what has been > hacked away on it... > - Specific projects that interest attendees: > ?. La Fonera /?Ubiquity ?network bullets /?other inexpensive wifi show and > tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! > ?. Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were discussed > recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to do that is cool.) > Bring pictures! > ?. Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest to the > group in 120 mins. > If I have made an omission, or you want something more on the agenda, please > drop me an email off-list, and I will gladly include it! This is a social > kinda group, and it will be nice to see many of you after years of not > seeing wireless people. :) > -matt > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 10:45:57 2009 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:45:57 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. Message-ID: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to HarMar. I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. I think the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure because the detour didn't take me there. I made it here after the extra drive and am chilling at a small table until the room is free. see you soon, --Matt Johnson Map: Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( aturday was unavailable.) > Tentative Agenda: > From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Sun Jul 26 12:02:14 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:02:14 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Matt- Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers around here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): Tentative Agenda: - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what interests each of us.) - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what has been hacked away on it... . Meraki demo! [ new ] . Ubiquity Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] . PTP LinkPlanner [ new ] - Specific projects that interest attendees: . La Fonera / Ubiquity network bullets / other inexpensive wifi show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to do that is cool.) Bring pictures! . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest to the group in 120 mins. . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... > Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of > County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to > HarMar. I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. I think > the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure > because the detour didn't take me there. > > I made it here after the extra drive and am chilling at a small table > until the room is free. > > see you soon, > > --Matt Johnson > > Map: > > > Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( > > aturday was unavailable.) >> Tentative Agenda: >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090726/42a06c24/attachment.htm From pfhyper at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 12:44:26 2009 From: pfhyper at gmail.com (Peter Fleck) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:44:26 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: Won't make the meeting today but hope to catch up on the next one. Have fun everyone. Peter On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Matthew Genelin wrote: > Matt- > Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers around > here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) > I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. > So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): > > Tentative Agenda: > - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what > interests each of us.) > - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the > world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. > ? . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what > has been hacked away on it... > ? . Meraki demo! [ new ] > ? . Ubiquity ?Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] > ? . PTP ?LinkPlanner [ new ] > > - Specific projects that interest attendees: > ? . La Fonera / Ubiquity? network bullets / other inexpensive wifi > show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! > ? . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were > discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to > do that is cool.) Bring pictures! > ? . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest > to the group in 120 mins. > ? . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit > involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? > > > > > > We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! > -matt > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > > For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... > Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of > County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to > HarMar. ?I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. ??I think > the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure > because the detour didn't take me there. > > I made it here after the extra ?drive and am chilling at a small table > until the room is free. > > see you soon, > > --Matt Johnson > > Map: ? > > > Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( > > aturday was unavailable.) > > Tentative Agenda: > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > -- Peter Fleck Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper pfhyper at gmail.com From matt at omega.org Sun Jul 26 13:47:30 2009 From: matt at omega.org (Matthew Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:47:30 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay Message-ID: <7d3948c70907261147v38f19436j1e51f0a1681d4ed4@mail.gmail.com> Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 14:37:12 2009 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:37:12 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: <7d3948c70907261237q44089cb3h24f09cd0e7319d21@mail.gmail.com> Sorry you couldn't make it Peter. From your twitter stream I know you are a busy guy. Thanks for the email. It was fun times. The two hours just flew by. On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Peter Fleck wrote: > Won't make the meeting today but hope to catch up on the next one. > Have fun everyone. > > Peter > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Matthew > Genelin wrote: >> Matt- >> Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers around >> here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) >> I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. >> So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): >> >> Tentative Agenda: >> - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what >> interests each of us.) >> - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the >> world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. >> ? . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what >> has been hacked away on it... >> ? . Meraki demo! [ new ] >> ? . Ubiquity ?Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] >> ? . PTP ?LinkPlanner [ new ] >> >> - Specific projects that interest attendees: >> ? . La Fonera / Ubiquity? network bullets / other inexpensive wifi >> show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! >> ? . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were >> discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to >> do that is cool.) Bring pictures! >> ? . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest >> to the group in 120 mins. >> ? . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit >> involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? >> >> >> >> >> >> We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! >> -matt >> -- >> ----- >> Matthew Genelin >> Fast Computer Service Co. >> 612-605-5382 >> >> 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 >> Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 >> >> fastcomputerserviceco.com >> On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> >> For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... >> Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of >> County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to >> HarMar. ?I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. ??I think >> the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure >> because the detour didn't take me there. >> >> I made it here after the extra ?drive and am chilling at a small table >> until the room is free. >> >> see you soon, >> >> --Matt Johnson >> >> Map: ? >> >> >> Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( >> >> aturday was unavailable.) >> >> Tentative Agenda: >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> tcwug-list at tcwug.org >> http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list >> >> > > > > -- > Peter Fleck > Blog: http://www.pfhyper.com/blog > Twitter: http://twitter.com/pfhyper > pfhyper at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 14:40:16 2009 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:40:16 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay In-Reply-To: <7d3948c70907261147v38f19436j1e51f0a1681d4ed4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3948c70907261147v38f19436j1e51f0a1681d4ed4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7d3948c70907261240p80e8cd5j65de75e92fd02cd@mail.gmail.com> One of the topics today was point-to-point wireless bridging. Here is a yagi for sale on ebay that might be useful for that kind of thing. I haven't done wireless bridging before so I'd like to learn about it. Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay: From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 14:45:26 2009 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:45:26 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] tcwug hosting Message-ID: <7d3948c70907261245t16537d44oc10c50397c0bf26c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Matthew, Just wanted to let you know that today was pretty fun. Thanks for arranging the first meeting in the last 2 years or whatever it was. I look forward to the next one. I'd like to hear more about the projects people are working on, so I think the fun will continue. -Matt Johnson SysAdmin matt at omega.org On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Matthew Genelin wrote: > Matt- > Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers around > here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) > I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. > So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): > > Tentative Agenda: > - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what > interests each of us.) > - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the > world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. > ? . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what > has been hacked away on it... > ? . Meraki demo! [ new ] > ? . Ubiquity ?Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] > ? . PTP ?LinkPlanner [ new ] > > - Specific projects that interest attendees: > ? . La Fonera / Ubiquity? network bullets / other inexpensive wifi > show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! > ? . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were > discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to > do that is cool.) Bring pictures! > ? . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest > to the group in 120 mins. > ? . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit > involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? > > > > > > We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! > -matt > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > > For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... > Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of > County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to > HarMar. ?I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. ??I think > the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure > because the detour didn't take me there. > > I made it here after the extra ?drive and am chilling at a small table > until the room is free. > > see you soon, > > --Matt Johnson > > Map: ? > > > Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( > > aturday was unavailable.) > > Tentative Agenda: > > > From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Sun Jul 26 16:02:42 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:02:42 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] DONE: Meetup July 26, 2009 Message-ID: Hey All- Thanks to Matthew Johnson for showing up today and showing off his Yagi + DDwrt Linksys router running a nice bridge bridging the "Caribou" Access Point. Yep -- we in the room had a much better signal then the other 10 laptop drones in the coffee shop. +12db gain antenna helps overwhelm the AP. >) The group (all two of us) decided that it's time that TCWUG starts doing stuff. "Let's do stuff" came out of the meeting, mostly. Stuff that was talked about and demoed: - DDwrt router, eBay-able pringles can antenna from PVC, several element Yagi from Matthew Johnson. - Matthew Johnson's experience with FON and the FON network. - Matthew Genelin's experience setting up 5GHz point to point links for a local ISP. Stuff that we want to do: - Get more TCWUG members to buy the $30.00 FON accesspoint (or better yet, the $40.00 FON Access Point with LAN jack, now available.) http://www.fon.com/en/ - Get more TCWUG members to show-and-tell other networks, projects, inexpensive consumer equipment (like Meraki, cisco, whatever) during TCWUG meet-ups. - Do more outdoor stuff, including: . Talking with Osseo CTO this week (will email Tim Wilson off-list for a meeting.) . Setup and deploy event-based wifi network to give away, sell or whatever internet at big public events like the Minneapolis Aquatennial parade that was last week, July 4th fireworks, etc.) Members provide gear and know-how, prepare network during meetups. . Another meet-up in two weeks to get started on group projects. [ Group projects need to be accomplishable, not overly complicated, but "bigger" then one geek can do on his / his own. ] . Start the planning process for wifi deployment from rooftops of tall buildings. [ See: Matthew Genelin wants to get started on a point- to-point network from Moos Tower, U of M. ] - Next meeting in two weeks. Gotta find a spot with less consutrction and more people can come. Perhaps the old Dunn Bros at 3rd and 3rd might come back into play. -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090726/49e0db6b/attachment.htm From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Sun Jul 26 16:26:46 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:26:46 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> Message-ID: <5C9FC9EF-BAF5-446C-B188-2EAFC3E04845@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Matt- I'd love to host the old images from maps.tcwug.org (mostly so that I don't have to re-do the survey). They were great -- and I am happy to host static content and give you credit. Have 'em kicking around somplace? I'd love a copy. Email a link, file, whatever and I'll get 'em up. -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 6, 2009, at 3:05 AM, Matt Hallacy wrote: > > *) Yes, maps.tcwug.org has been down for quite a while. I gave up on > maintaining it when the group died and there are much better options > now. From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 16:44:25 2009 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:44:25 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] Message-ID: <4A6CCE39.6070800@gmail.com> And there is the cantenna: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:40:16 -0500 From: Matthew Johnson To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org References: <7d3948c70907261147v38f19436j1e51f0a1681d4ed4 at mail.gmail.com> One of the topics today was point-to-point wireless bridging. Here is a yagi for sale on ebay that might be useful for that kind of thing. I haven't done wireless bridging before so I'd like to learn about it. Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090726/4bd0b99b/attachment.htm From earl at jarosh.org Mon Jul 27 00:10:04 2009 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:10:04 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: <003101ca0e78$817fa110$640e000a@moneyf43c653fb> I am so sorry but was unable to get back in town for the meeting. Weekends are really difficult for me. I will try to make up the next meeting and give the Meraki presentation. I realize this is a low level desire for some as it is not open source but should be interesting all the same. Cheers!! S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com _____ From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Genelin Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:02 PM To: Matthew Johnson Cc: TCWUG-List Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. Matt- Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers around here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): Tentative Agenda: - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what interests each of us.) - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what has been hacked away on it... . Meraki demo! [ new ] . Ubiquity Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] . PTP LinkPlanner [ new ] - Specific projects that interest attendees: . La Fonera / Ubiquity network bullets / other inexpensive wifi show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to do that is cool.) Bring pictures! . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest to the group in 120 mins. . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to HarMar. I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. I think the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure because the detour didn't take me there. I made it here after the extra drive and am chilling at a small table until the room is free. see you soon, --Matt Johnson Map: Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( aturday was unavailable.) Tentative Agenda: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090727/bffc4fd5/attachment-0001.htm From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Mon Jul 27 14:23:19 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:23:19 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <003101ca0e78$817fa110$640e000a@moneyf43c653fb> References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> <003101ca0e78$817fa110$640e000a@moneyf43c653fb> Message-ID: <6FA3A275-5BAB-45AF-AAB2-2865EDD72CAD@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Earl- Actually, I think there is more then a low level desire -- I desire very much to see new toys, and see a working Maraki installation. Let me be clear here: I didn't want to say anything bad on the list before the meet-up about Maraki, but of the folks' that I know that have Maraki (and in my office building were it doesn't seem to work) I have heard of nobody getting the "auto ad-hoc network" feature to work. I *really* want to see Maraki work -- I want to see a demo of a working installation, since so far I have seen 5 different setups, none of which are working right. So, can I put you down for a more committed attendance at the next meet-up? Are evenings during the week better? Would a Friday evening be a better time for you? (Remember I *really* want to see Maraki work!) -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 27, 2009, at 12:10 AM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: > I am so sorry but was unable to get back in town for the meeting. > Weekends are really difficult for me. I will try to make up the > next meeting and give the Meraki presentation. I realize this is a > low level desire for some as it is not open source but should be > interesting all the same. > > Cheers!! > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > V.P. of Information Technology > Cell: 612.868.1313 > Off: 763.545.3275 > Fax: 763.546.0027 > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > Golden Valley, MN 55422 > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > earl at moneycenters.com > www.moneycenters.com > > > > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org > ] On Behalf Of Matthew Genelin > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:02 PM > To: Matthew Johnson > Cc: TCWUG-List > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, > July 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. > > Matt- > > Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers > around here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white > MacBook. ;) > > I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. > > So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): > > > Tentative Agenda: > - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what > interests each of us.) > > - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the > world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. > . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what > has been hacked away on it... > > . Meraki demo! [ new ] > > . Ubiquity Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] > > . PTP LinkPlanner [ new ] > > > - Specific projects that interest attendees: > . La Fonera / Ubiquity network bullets / other inexpensive wifi > show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! > . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were > discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to > do that is cool.) Bring pictures! > . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest > to the group in 120 mins. > . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open > Circuit involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? > > > > > > > We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! > > -matt > > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > > On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >> For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... >> Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of >> County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to >> HarMar. I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. I think >> the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure >> because the detour didn't take me there. >> >> I made it here after the extra drive and am chilling at a small >> table >> until the room is free. >> >> see you soon, >> >> --Matt Johnson >> >> Map: >> >> >> Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( >> >> aturday was unavailable.) >>> Tentative Agenda: >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090727/19a5dc2c/attachment.htm From earl at jarosh.org Mon Jul 27 14:28:59 2009 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:28:59 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] In-Reply-To: <4A6CCE39.6070800@gmail.com> References: <4A6CCE39.6070800@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001f01ca0ef0$7e75cdf0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> A good source of PCB antennas that work and won't cost you and arm and a leg. www.wa5vjb.com Kent's site is a good source of antenna information. You really don't need a 17dbi yagi for most point to point bridging needs. Most cantennas are built by people that have not done the correct math and so the stub length is wrong, the placement is wrong, the connector is wrong and the coax is inappropriate for the use. Antennas are simply math. Everyone here should go down to the library, pick up a copy of the ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook and read the chapters on antennas and feed lines. You can build something much better and a little of the black magic will have been lifted. S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com _____ From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Johnson Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:44 PM To: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com; tcwug-list at tcwug.org Subject: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] And there is the cantenna: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:40:16 -0500 From: Matthew Johnson To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org References: <7d3948c70907261147v38f19436j1e51f0a1681d4ed4 at mail.gmail.com> One of the topics today was point-to-point wireless bridging. Here is a yagi for sale on ebay that might be useful for that kind of thing. I haven't done wireless bridging before so I'd like to learn about it. Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090727/8c44f394/attachment.htm From earl at jarosh.org Mon Jul 27 14:49:54 2009 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:49:54 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <6FA3A275-5BAB-45AF-AAB2-2865EDD72CAD@fastcomputerserviceco.com> References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> <003101ca0e78$817fa110$640e000a@moneyf43c653fb> <6FA3A275-5BAB-45AF-AAB2-2865EDD72CAD@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: <002a01ca0ef3$6a8b0d20$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> Matthew, Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays seem to be best during the summer If I am not traveling. Wednesdays is my Bluegrass Band practice night. www.siloacreek.com (shameless promotion) and all during the the first week of August I am on the festival staff of a large Bluegrass Festival out in Avon. http://minnesotabluegrass.org/index.php?contentID=559 (more shameless promotion). Just schedule something and we will see how it goes. I manage 2 projects now (with 2 more in bid) primarily from my IPhone. (Google phone did not exist and Palm Treo pissed me off) I am also planning to order some open-mesh stuff to test and review. S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com _____ From: Matthew Genelin [mailto:mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:23 PM To: S. Earl Jarosh Cc: 'Matthew Johnson'; 'TCWUG-List' Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. Earl- Actually, I think there is more then a low level desire -- I desire very much to see new toys, and see a working Maraki installation. Let me be clear here: I didn't want to say anything bad on the list before the meet-up about Maraki, but of the folks' that I know that have Maraki (and in my office building were it doesn't seem to work) I have heard of nobody getting the "auto ad-hoc network" feature to work. I *really* want to see Maraki work -- I want to see a demo of a working installation, since so far I have seen 5 different setups, none of which are working right. So, can I put you down for a more committed attendance at the next meet-up? Are evenings during the week better? Would a Friday evening be a better time for you? (Remember I *really* want to see Maraki work!) -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 27, 2009, at 12:10 AM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: I am so sorry but was unable to get back in town for the meeting. Weekends are really difficult for me. I will try to make up the next meeting and give the Meraki presentation. I realize this is a low level desire for some as it is not open source but should be interesting all the same. Cheers!! S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ V.P. of Information Technology Cell: 612.868.1313 Off: 763.545.3275 Fax: 763.546.0027 Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 Golden Valley, MN 55422 6128681313 at cingularme.com earl at moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com _____ From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Genelin Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:02 PM To: Matthew Johnson Cc: TCWUG-List Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. Matt- Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers around here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): Tentative Agenda: - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what interests each of us.) - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what has been hacked away on it... . Meraki demo! [ new ] . Ubiquity Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] . PTP LinkPlanner [ new ] - Specific projects that interest attendees: . La Fonera / Ubiquity network bullets / other inexpensive wifi show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to do that is cool.) Bring pictures! . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest to the group in 120 mins. . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to HarMar. I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. I think the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure because the detour didn't take me there. I made it here after the extra drive and am chilling at a small table until the room is free. see you soon, --Matt Johnson Map: Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( aturday was unavailable.) Tentative Agenda: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090727/486121f3/attachment-0001.htm From mitc0185 at umn.edu Mon Jul 27 14:57:03 2009 From: mitc0185 at umn.edu (Erik Mitchell) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:57:03 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <002a01ca0ef3$6a8b0d20$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> <003101ca0e78$817fa110$640e000a@moneyf43c653fb> <6FA3A275-5BAB-45AF-AAB2-2865EDD72CAD@fastcomputerserviceco.com> <002a01ca0ef3$6a8b0d20$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> Message-ID: <7f48b8780907271257k520ca628p58a7a8c797355eb8@mail.gmail.com> There's no such thing as shameless promotion when it comes to bluegrass... :) On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: > Matthew, > > Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays seem to be best during the summer If I am > not traveling.? Wednesdays is my Bluegrass Band practice night. > www.siloacreek.com (shameless promotion) and all during the the first week > of August I am on the festival staff of a large Bluegrass Festival out in > Avon. http://minnesotabluegrass.org/index.php?contentID=559?(more shameless > promotion).? Just schedule something and we will see how it goes. > > I manage 2 projects now?(with 2 more in bid)?primarily from my IPhone. > (Google phone did not exist and Palm Treo?pissed me off) > > I am also planning to order some open-mesh stuff to test and review. > > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > V.P. of Information Technology > Cell:? 612.868.1313 > Off:?? 763.545.3275 > Fax: 763.546.0027 > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > Golden Valley, MN? 55422 > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > earl at moneycenters.com > www.moneycenters.com > > > ________________________________ > From: Matthew Genelin [mailto:mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com] > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:23 PM > To: S. Earl Jarosh > Cc: 'Matthew Johnson'; 'TCWUG-List' > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July > 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. > > Earl- > Actually, I think there is more then a low level desire -- I desire very > much to see new toys, and see a working Maraki installation. > Let me be clear here: I didn't want to say anything bad on the list before > the meet-up about Maraki, but of the folks' that I know that have Maraki > (and in my office building were it doesn't seem to work) I have heard of > nobody getting the "auto ad-hoc network" feature to work. I *really* want to > see Maraki work -- I want to see a demo of a working installation, since so > far I have seen 5 different setups, none of which are working right. > So, can I put you down for a more committed attendance at the next meet-up? > Are evenings during the week better? Would a Friday evening be a better time > for you? (Remember I *really* want to see Maraki work!) > -matt > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > On Jul 27, 2009, at 12:10 AM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: > > I am so sorry but was unable to get back in town for the meeting.? Weekends > are really difficult for me.? I will try to make up the next meeting and > give the Meraki presentation.? I realize this is a low level desire for some > as it is not open source but should be interesting all the same. > > Cheers!! > > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > V.P. of Information Technology > Cell:? 612.868.1313 > Off:?? 763.545.3275 > Fax: 763.546.0027 > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > Golden Valley, MN? 55422 > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > earl at moneycenters.com > www.moneycenters.com > > > ________________________________ > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of Matthew Genelin > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:02 PM > To: Matthew Johnson > Cc: TCWUG-List > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July > 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. > > Matt- > Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers around > here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) > I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. > So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): > > Tentative Agenda: > - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what > interests each of us.) > - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the > world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. > ? . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what > has been hacked away on it... > ? . Meraki demo! [ new ] > ? . Ubiquity ?Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] > ? . PTP ?LinkPlanner [ new ] > > - Specific projects that interest attendees: > ? . La Fonera / Ubiquity? network bullets / other inexpensive wifi > show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! > ? . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were > discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to > do that is cool.) Bring pictures! > ? . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest > to the group in 120 mins. > ? . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit > involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? > > > > > > We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! > -matt > -- > ----- > Matthew Genelin > Fast Computer Service Co. > 612-605-5382 > > 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 > Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 > > fastcomputerserviceco.com > On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > > For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... > Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of > County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to > HarMar. ?I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. ??I think > the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure > because the detour didn't take me there. > > I made it here after the extra ?drive and am chilling at a small table > until the room is free. > > see you soon, > > --Matt Johnson > > Map: ? > > > Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( > > aturday was unavailable.) > > Tentative Agenda: > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > -- Erik Mitchell erik.mitchell at gmail.com From mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com Mon Jul 27 15:09:18 2009 From: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com (Matthew Genelin) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:09:18 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, July 26, 2009 @ 1200-1400. In-Reply-To: <7f48b8780907271257k520ca628p58a7a8c797355eb8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3948c70907260845t21152b61v214d4cd59014768a@mail.gmail.com> <21AD7959-EE2A-4EAF-9E54-507C5721E220@fastcomputerserviceco.com> <003101ca0e78$817fa110$640e000a@moneyf43c653fb> <6FA3A275-5BAB-45AF-AAB2-2865EDD72CAD@fastcomputerserviceco.com> <002a01ca0ef3$6a8b0d20$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> <7f48b8780907271257k520ca628p58a7a8c797355eb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <732EA299-C9E5-427F-82A6-D4BA744120A9@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Ha. And when shameless promoting, be sure to include URL's! + 2 points for including URL's. -matt -- ----- Matthew Genelin Fast Computer Service Co. 612-605-5382 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 fastcomputerserviceco.com On Jul 27, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Erik Mitchell wrote: > There's no such thing as shameless promotion when it comes to > bluegrass... > > :) > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM, S. Earl Jarosh > wrote: >> Matthew, >> >> Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays seem to be best during the summer >> If I am >> not traveling. Wednesdays is my Bluegrass Band practice night. >> www.siloacreek.com (shameless promotion) and all during the the >> first week >> of August I am on the festival staff of a large Bluegrass Festival >> out in >> Avon. http://minnesotabluegrass.org/index.php?contentID=559 (more >> shameless >> promotion). Just schedule something and we will see how it goes. >> >> I manage 2 projects now (with 2 more in bid) primarily from my >> IPhone. >> (Google phone did not exist and Palm Treo pissed me off) >> >> I am also planning to order some open-mesh stuff to test and review. >> >> >> S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ >> V.P. of Information Technology >> Cell: 612.868.1313 >> Off: 763.545.3275 >> Fax: 763.546.0027 >> Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept >> 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 >> Golden Valley, MN 55422 >> 6128681313 at cingularme.com >> earl at moneycenters.com >> www.moneycenters.com >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Matthew Genelin [mailto:mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com] >> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:23 PM >> To: S. Earl Jarosh >> Cc: 'Matthew Johnson'; 'TCWUG-List' >> Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, >> July >> 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. >> >> Earl- >> Actually, I think there is more then a low level desire -- I desire >> very >> much to see new toys, and see a working Maraki installation. >> Let me be clear here: I didn't want to say anything bad on the list >> before >> the meet-up about Maraki, but of the folks' that I know that have >> Maraki >> (and in my office building were it doesn't seem to work) I have >> heard of >> nobody getting the "auto ad-hoc network" feature to work. I >> *really* want to >> see Maraki work -- I want to see a demo of a working installation, >> since so >> far I have seen 5 different setups, none of which are working right. >> So, can I put you down for a more committed attendance at the next >> meet-up? >> Are evenings during the week better? Would a Friday evening be a >> better time >> for you? (Remember I *really* want to see Maraki work!) >> -matt >> -- >> ----- >> Matthew Genelin >> Fast Computer Service Co. >> 612-605-5382 >> >> 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 >> Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 >> >> fastcomputerserviceco.com >> On Jul 27, 2009, at 12:10 AM, S. Earl Jarosh wrote: >> >> I am so sorry but was unable to get back in town for the meeting. >> Weekends >> are really difficult for me. I will try to make up the next >> meeting and >> give the Meraki presentation. I realize this is a low level desire >> for some >> as it is not open source but should be interesting all the same. >> >> Cheers!! >> >> >> S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ >> V.P. of Information Technology >> Cell: 612.868.1313 >> Off: 763.545.3275 >> Fax: 763.546.0027 >> Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept >> 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 >> Golden Valley, MN 55422 >> 6128681313 at cingularme.com >> earl at moneycenters.com >> www.moneycenters.com >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org >> ] On >> Behalf Of Matthew Genelin >> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:02 PM >> To: Matthew Johnson >> Cc: TCWUG-List >> Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] Traffic Report for the Meetup on Sunday, >> July >> 26,2009 @ 1200-1400. >> >> Matt- >> Great traffic report. I *know* you're one of these coffee drinkers >> around >> here somplace. I am the one in the hat with the white MacBook. ;) >> I am excited to hear about a working Maraki / pics / demo as well. >> So, then, I see a better agenda forming (updated): >> >> Tentative Agenda: >> - Re-intros (who we are, why we are excited by wifi technology, what >> interests each of us.) >> - Catch-up on where technology is now with wireless tech. how the >> world has changed in the year(s) since the last meet-up. >> . Where municipal wifi is now, how our members feel about it, what >> has been hacked away on it... >> . Meraki demo! [ new ] >> . Ubiquity Network Bullets / $40.00 / PoE [ new ] >> . PTP LinkPlanner [ new ] >> >> - Specific projects that interest attendees: >> . La Fonera / Ubiquity network bullets / other inexpensive wifi >> show and tell. Bring stuff to oogle at / show and tell! >> . Specific hot-spot installations done or wish-list (schools were >> discussed recently, apt buildings, whatever you've done or *want* to >> do that is cool.) Bring pictures! >> . Whatever else that is positive, forward-thinking and of interest >> to the group in 120 mins. >> . UNwiring the Cedar / Riverside building: Freegeek/TC Open Circuit >> involvement? What are they doing? Incorporating? >> >> >> >> >> >> We'lll be here from noon until 2:00pm, come stragglers, come all! >> -matt >> -- >> ----- >> Matthew Genelin >> Fast Computer Service Co. >> 612-605-5382 >> >> 2010 E. Hennepin Ave, Suite 8-122, Box 1 >> Minneapolis, MN 55413-2760 >> >> fastcomputerserviceco.com >> On Jul 26, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> >> For people in the north coming to the HarMar area today, July 26th... >> Snelling southbound is closed from County Rd C to somewhere north of >> County Rd B. So, you will want to find another road south to get to >> HarMar. I don't recomend the zig-zag detour that I took. I think >> the Snelling Exit from the west on Hwy 36 is open, but I'm not sure >> because the detour didn't take me there. >> >> I made it here after the extra drive and am chilling at a small >> table >> until the room is free. >> >> see you soon, >> >> --Matt Johnson >> >> Map: >> >> >> Sunday, July 26, 2009 at noon (12:00) until 2:00pm. ( >> >> aturday was unavailable.) >> >> Tentative Agenda: >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >> Minnesota >> tcwug-list at tcwug.org >> http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list >> >> > > > > -- > Erik Mitchell > erik.mitchell at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.tcwug.org/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20090727/c5bccde5/attachment-0001.htm From mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:33:37 2009 From: mattjohnson2005 at gmail.com (Matthew Johnson) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:33:37 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] In-Reply-To: <001f01ca0ef0$7e75cdf0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> References: <4A6CCE39.6070800@gmail.com> <001f01ca0ef0$7e75cdf0$6a0e000a@moneyf43c653fb> Message-ID: <1248726817.4891.1327037917@webmail.messagingengine.com> The library is a good idea. I've browsed the ARRL antenna handbook at Radio City and it cost like $55! I wonder which local library would have arrl stuff. Anyway I have another ARRL book to study. I have to study my ARRL book on passing the tech license. -Matt Johnson On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:28:59 -0500, "S. Earl Jarosh" said: > A good source of PCB antennas that work and won't cost you and arm and a > leg. > > www.wa5vjb.com > > Kent's site is a good source of antenna information. You really don't > need > a 17dbi yagi for most point to point bridging needs. Most cantennas are > built by people that have not done the correct math and so the stub > length > is wrong, the placement is wrong, the connector is wrong and the coax is > inappropriate for the use. Antennas are simply math. Everyone here > should > go down to the library, pick up a copy of the ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook > and read the chapters on antennas and feed lines. You can build > something > much better and a little of the black magic will have been lifted. > > > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > V.P. of Information Technology > Cell: 612.868.1313 > Off: 763.545.3275 > Fax: 763.546.0027 > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > Golden Valley, MN 55422 > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > earl at moneycenters.com > www.moneycenters.com > > > > > _____ > > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] > On > Behalf Of Matthew Johnson > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:44 PM > To: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com; tcwug-list at tcwug.org > Subject: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] > > > And there is the cantenna: > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:40:16 -0500 > From: Matthew Johnson > > To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > References: > > <7d3948c70907261147v38f19436j1e51f0a1681d4ed4 at mail.gmail.com> > > > One of the topics today was point-to-point wireless bridging. Here is > > a yagi for sale on ebay that might be useful for that kind of thing. > > I haven't done wireless bridging before so I'd like to learn about it. > > > > > > Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay: > > > DME:B:FSEL:CA:1123> > DME:B:FSEL:CA:1123> From cncole at earthlink.net Mon Jul 27 16:06:17 2009 From: cncole at earthlink.net (Chuck Cole) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:06:17 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] In-Reply-To: <1248726817.4891.1327037917@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Use MNLink to search all at once, and use interlibrary loan to get stuff sent to your favorite location. Need an active library card, however. https://www.mnlinkgateway.org/zportal/zengine?VDXaction=LoginPage Can register a card from one county and any and all other counties (takes legwork to go to each), but that allows you to have (most) privileges as if a resident of another county. I prefer the web layout and features of Hennepin (Southdale/ York) to Dakota so I mostly use that, but can return to a Dakota site to avoid driving when I have nothing to pick up. Dakota charges rentals on DVDs but Hennepin does not, so I go to/through Hennepin\. Hennepin also has more generous checkout and renewal options (partly due ILL regs differing by county). TIP: I make a notepad shortcut that has my library info (card number, phone numbers, hours open, etc) as a desktop convenience, and also have shortsuts to MnLink, HCL, Dakota, etc, so I can copy and paste my library card number (22 digits?) in without typos as signon and go searching and requesting with no hassle. Every library I've looked in had ARRL stuff, but I haven't looked for that in a long time. ANTENNAS for sale: I have some serious tower type panel antenna "segments" I don't use and should sell. One is dual WiFi cell 2.4GHz and 900 MHz, another is mainly cell. These are about 17dbi things with NICE specs. Have the specs somewhere. Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org > [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Johnson > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 3:34 PM > To: S. Earl Jarosh; Matthew Genelin; TCWUG-List > Subject: Re: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] > > > The library is a good idea. I've browsed the ARRL antenna handbook at Radio City and it cost like $55! I wonder which > local library would have arrl stuff. > > Anyway I have another ARRL book to study. I have to study my ARRL book on passing the tech license. > > -Matt Johnson > > On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:28:59 -0500, "S. Earl Jarosh" said: > > A good source of PCB antennas that work and won't cost you and arm and a > > leg. > > > > www.wa5vjb.com > > > > Kent's site is a good source of antenna information. You really don't > > need > > a 17dbi yagi for most point to point bridging needs. Most cantennas are > > built by people that have not done the correct math and so the stub > > length > > is wrong, the placement is wrong, the connector is wrong and the coax is > > inappropriate for the use. Antennas are simply math. Everyone here > > should > > go down to the library, pick up a copy of the ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook > > and read the chapters on antennas and feed lines. You can build > > something > > much better and a little of the black magic will have been lifted. > > > > > > > > S. Earl Jarosh, N0HZ > > V.P. of Information Technology > > Cell: 612.868.1313 > > Off: 763.545.3275 > > Fax: 763.546.0027 > > Money Centers of America, Inc. - I.T. Dept > > 5955 Golden Valley Rd., Suite 206 > > Golden Valley, MN 55422 > > 6128681313 at cingularme.com > > earl at moneycenters.com > > www.moneycenters.com > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-bounces at tcwug.org] > > On > > Behalf Of Matthew Johnson > > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:44 PM > > To: mgenelin at fastcomputerserviceco.com; tcwug-list at tcwug.org > > Subject: [tcwug-list] [Fwd: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay] > > > > > > And there is the cantenna: > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay > > Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:40:16 -0500 > > From: Matthew Johnson > > > > To: tcwug-list at tcwug.org > > References: > > > > <7d3948c70907261147v38f19436j1e51f0a1681d4ed4 at mail.gmail.com> > > > > > > One of the topics today was point-to-point wireless bridging. Here is > > > > a yagi for sale on ebay that might be useful for that kind of thing. > > > > I haven't done wireless bridging before so I'd like to learn about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yagi at 2.4Ghz for sale on ebay: > > > > > > > DME:B:FSEL:CA:1123> > > > DME:B:FSEL:CA:1123> > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > tcwug-list at tcwug.org > http://mailman.tcwug.org/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.29/2261 - Release Date: 07/27/09 05:58:00 > From poptix at poptix.net Wed Jul 29 14:44:42 2009 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matt Hallacy) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:44:42 -0500 Subject: [tcwug-list] Neighborhood mesh networking In-Reply-To: <5C9FC9EF-BAF5-446C-B188-2EAFC3E04845@fastcomputerserviceco.com> References: <4A4B5F39.1050005@fngi.net> <3389.1246463522@skuld.wookimus.net> <1246867554.5452.32.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> <5C9FC9EF-BAF5-446C-B188-2EAFC3E04845@fastcomputerserviceco.com> Message-ID: <1248896682.30194.5.camel@deepthinker.poptix.net> The wifi mapping data is so out of date that it's completely useless, and deleted long ago. The only real useful data we had was Moos tower height (which was apparently impossible to find at that time). I've still got the coordinates/elevation/map here: http://poptix.net/moos.html If anyone can think of other useful maps or data that were up there let me know and I'll dig around for it. On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 16:26 -0500, Matthew Genelin wrote: > Matt- > > I'd love to host the old images from maps.tcwug.org (mostly so that I > don't have to re-do the survey). They were great -- and I am happy to > host static content and give you credit. > > Have 'em kicking around somplace? I'd love a copy. Email a link, file, > whatever and I'll get 'em up. > > -matt >